Military Review

The future of the Russian aircraft MS-21: breakthrough technologies, but the time is “non-flying”

150

In 2021, Russian airlines should receive the first MS-21 airliners. This aircraft is still causing conflicting estimates. Some call it a genuine breakthrough in the post-Soviet aircraft industry, others - an outright adventure.


According to representatives of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of Russia, the MS-21 aircraft must withstand competition with aircraft of such world-famous giants aviation industries like Boeing and Airbus. After all, the MS-21 is planned as an aircraft with an increased level of comfort for passengers. This quality is achieved thanks to the widest fuselage in this class of airborne vehicles. As a result, the liner can accommodate more spacious and comfortable chairs, or make a wide passage in which two people can freely stretch.

The skepticism about the future of the MC-21 is due to several considerations. Firstly, one must be realistic - it will be very difficult for a new Russian-made liner to win its place under the sun. After all, the same Boeing and Airbus are not only the richest companies with huge history, not only real brands, they also have developed relations with potential buyers, which they are unlikely to share, especially against the backdrop of the global economic crisis. By 2025, the global aircraft market has already been contracted by Boeing and Airbus by 75%! Therefore, the aircraft will have problems with entering the foreign market.

Secondly, the MS-21 is by no means cheap to manufacture. The cost of its production is growing all the time, which is associated with government orders to increase the percentage of domestic components, if not up to 97%, then at least up to 80%. The task is very difficult, although feasible in the presence of financial injections.

Thirdly, experts raise questions about the fuel efficiency of the new aircraft. However, now the situation in the fuel market has changed significantly compared to the time when Russia only announced plans to create the MS-21. However, the West has severe environmental restrictions, which are often used as a tool for competition. That is, with the help of a certification system, the West impedes the penetration of aircraft of a different production on their markets than the products of American and European aircraft construction companies.

Fourth, skeptics cite the SSJ-100 experience as an example, sales of which can hardly be called successful. But we must not forget that the Superjet and the MS-21 are still fundamentally different planes with different histories, which means that the future can also be very different.

Strengths


In addition to increased comfort, experts call the strength of the aircraft a high degree of implementation of innovative technologies and materials. For example, when creating an airplane, modern polymer composite materials are widely used, including due to which it was possible to construct a wing with increased aerodynamic quality.

The MS-21 has an aluminum fuselage, tail and wings are made of carbon fiber. Carbon is plastic reinforced with carbon fiber and is much more durable than carbon steel. Moreover, the Russian company AeroComposite-Ulyanovsk was the first in the world to significantly reduce the cost of production of these materials.



Japanese author Kotaro Watanabe from the JB Press did not fail to emphasize that the carbon-fiber wings make the MC-21 a more advanced air machine than the Boeing-787, which is currently considered the most advanced airliner in the world. Although Boeing also uses carbon wings, the cost of production of these parts for the MS-21 is much lower, which is what the Japanese are paying attention to.

It is now obvious that the MS-21 can succeed in two ways. The first is the domestic market, where there is a need for modern domestic aircraft. There are no barriers in the form of certification of the western sample here. The only probable problem is the cost of the aircraft. And this question is very significant, especially in the conditions of the most severe crisis in which the airline industry found itself after the coronavirus pandemic. While time, as they say, is "non-flying". Air carriers incur losses worldwide.

The second direction is the market of developing countries. A number of Asian and African states have traditionally shown interest in Russian-made products in the field of aviation and aviation equipment. It is likely that the MS-21 will not be an exception. At least, experts are talking about the possibility of concluding contracts with Iran, which is interested in other, non-American and non-European suppliers of aircraft.

However, now the future of the MS-21 will completely run into a financial problem. Even if the state has enough funds to complete the creation of the “21st Century Mainline Aircraft,” this does not mean that the airlines, beaten by the economic crisis and reduced production, can afford to purchase it. Therefore, there is a certain risk that the MS-XNUMX will not go into mass production in the next few years.
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 3 May 2020 18: 17 New
    -2
    I am an optimist in life. Sometimes it’s a realist ... But in this case I think that the latter are still right ...
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 3 May 2020 18: 30 New
      -25
      not ate "superjet"? It is a no-brainer, even the stupidest one, that the market is busy. Drinking Borjomi late.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 3 May 2020 18: 34 New
        36
        In current realities, the market can be regulated. Domestic flights, only on domestic aircraft!
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 3 May 2020 18: 43 New
          -13
          Quote: 210ox
          In current realities, the market can be regulated. Domestic flights, only on domestic aircraft!

          haha ... wassat
          1. olegactor
            olegactor 3 May 2020 21: 17 New
            +4
            ha ha ... wassat

            and we laugh ... the airport mattresses feel sorry .... or for the Hohel drinks
            1. Shurik70
              Shurik70 3 May 2020 22: 31 New
              +6
              The market now, in connection with the coronovirus, is not just saturated. He is oversaturated. And it is unlikely that the situation will change in the next year and a half. In the hangars there will be giants abandoned by previous customers, and will sell them for nothing. The result is that even if the coronovirus is defeated, there will be an overabundance in aircraft for another ten to fifteen years. They will try to redirect their production to the creation of smaller aircraft, significantly reduce staff.
              Here twenty years later yes. A need will appear. But will MS-21 become obsolete by that time?
              1. LifeIsGood
                LifeIsGood 4 May 2020 02: 29 New
                +8
                Excuse me, but you write some kind of nonsense ... you want to say that because of the downtime of a couple of months of the airline companies, there was suddenly an oversupply of aircraft for as many as 20 years? What is the speed with which aircraft manufacturers riveted them? A hundred pieces a day? Don't you think this sounds crazy?
                When everything calms down, the aircraft market will undoubtedly shrink, people will have less money and less likely to fly, some airline companies will go broke and go under the hammer at a lower price. This is all clear. Here are just a fleet of aircraft as it needed to be replaced, so the rest of us need to be replaced. And here, the cost of the aircraft, its efficiency, will already come in first place.
                1. sniperino
                  sniperino 4 May 2020 10: 23 New
                  -9
                  Quote: LifeIsGood
                  you want to say that due to a downtime of a couple of months by the airline companies, an oversupply of airplanes was formed for as many as 20 years?
                  At 200, if not support our political strength!
                  PS And there’s no sex on Earth for 50 years! Everything, think while there is time.
              2. andrew42
                andrew42 6 May 2020 19: 35 New
                +1
                Here it is not necessary to confuse the service market with the amount of equipment with which these services are rendered realistically. With regard to the domestic fleet, the market is not a hole, but an abyss. In general, in any strategically important sector of the economy, there should be a state-owned company that ensures the stability of the market sector and prevents cartel collusion. Including air transportation. And such a company should have domestic aircraft at the base of the fleet. If they really were domestic, then there would have been a fairy tale.
        2. Tiksi-3
          Tiksi-3 3 May 2020 19: 02 New
          +8
          Quote: 210ox
          Domestic flights, only on domestic aircraft!

          that is, there will be no domestic flights?))
        3. iouris
          iouris 3 May 2020 19: 36 New
          -3
          Quote: 210ox
          In current realities, the market can be regulated.

          You will not like the price of a ticket and flight delays. The only way out is to make tickets free of charge at a social rate.
          1. bayard
            bayard 3 May 2020 23: 11 New
            10
            State leasing companies will improve the situation by making domestic aircraft more attractive. And of course, barrage measures - duties and bans. The main thing is that these planes go into series.
            They are somewhat cheaper than their counterparts, and the issue with the service must be solved simultaneously with the supply of boards to the company.
            Or do you propose to continue purchasing from a direct enemy in an almost new Cold War?
            Not even a likely enemy, namely, a direct enemy.
            This project will pull up both our aircraft engine industry and entire industries tied to it by cooperation. Allows you to finally recreate the school of national civilian aircraft industry.
            Or do you suggest waiting for our "partners" to impose sanctions on spare parts and services for our fleet?
            Look at how many programs arose because of the exit from cooperation and cooperation of Ukraine alone:
            - disruption of the resumption of the construction of the An-124 "Ruslan" in Ulyanovsk.
            - cessation of deliveries under the program for the licensed assembly of An-148 in Voronezh.
            - rejection of a joint program for the production of An-70.
            - Refusal of service and maintenance of the entire fleet of An-brand aircraft.
            - refusal to supply aircraft engines for airplanes and helicopters of Russian production and remotorization of the operated ones.

            And this is ONLY Ukraine.
            By military transport and special aircraft and helicopters.
            And what if Boeing and Airbus get rid of the same feint?
            And they can easily.
            So we will wait for the start of mass production, there is a problem only with repeated tests of the wing made of domestic carbon fiber, everything else was ready for mass production a couple of years ago.
            1. KCA
              KCA 4 May 2020 05: 19 New
              0
              Not only PD-14 is now installed on the first plane, before that they were only tested on LL, maybe something will come up
              1. bayard
                bayard 4 May 2020 05: 39 New
                -1
                Even if something comes out of the PD-14, there is also some time to eliminate it - there is a certain supply of American engines. However, there may be delays with the refinement of some components of import-substituted. But you still need to start the conveyor, immediately after completing the tests of the wing of your carbon for compliance. The rest will follow.
            2. sniperino
              sniperino 4 May 2020 10: 59 New
              +3
              Quote: bayard
              Do you propose to continue purchasing from a direct enemy in an almost new Cold War?
              It is always better to have your own arsenal of design and technical means to move into the future. Today, this future, including the possibility of a new Cold War, NIW, is largely due to the fact which of the parties operating on the geopolitical scene will be faster in the conditions of the "ideal storm" or so, and we must be prepared for these conditions, at least morally.
            3. 2 Level Advisor
              2 Level Advisor 4 May 2020 16: 14 New
              0
              And during the previous Cold War, there were foreigners (the enemy) in our industry, imported everything by 80 percent in the country and selling almost everything that the “enemy” would want?
              Can we compare the military potential of the USSR and Russia against NATO? But simply sanctions, and not the most powerful ones, shocked the economy not childishly under the USSR?
              I would be glad that we had the strength to wage the Cold War today, but perhaps this is a fantasy ...
              1. bayard
                bayard 4 May 2020 17: 27 New
                +6
                Comrade Katz (Level 2 Advisor) suggests giving up?
                The Soviet Union was shaken not by "not the strongest" sanctions, but by the betrayal of the elites. The USSR spent its entire life under sanctions and only grew stronger. There were no prerequisites for a crisis and collapse, just the country's leadership purposefully led the country to death, surrender to the enemy and personal participation in its plunder.
                And they brought.
                But technologically, the Union was the author, all the necessary things he developed and produced himself, or in cooperation with the countries of the socialist community.
                All problems were from management.
                And not today we have chosen confrontation.
                Chose us.
                Again.
                These are just the conditions for the modern existence of our country. This is nothing to worry about and nothing new.
                And an alternative to the western cluster of civil aircraft industry is very much in demand in the world today. Looking at how the United States is breaking sanctions on the economy and industries of entire target countries, many have thought about alternative sources of high-tech tools. Including aviation, civil aviation.
                Look at Iran - its fleet is crumbling from decay, but they cannot buy new airplanes.
                US sanctions.
                And Europe is bending under the United States in the solidarity of such sanctions.
                As a result, Iran is waiting for new Russian aircraft - up to 420 - 450 aircraft, of which no less than 300 MS-21.
                But there is a condition - the aircraft must be exactly Russian equipment. And such requests just stimulate the import substitution and copyright of the domestic aviation industry.
                1. 2 Level Advisor
                  2 Level Advisor 5 May 2020 06: 24 New
                  0
                  Well, since you understood me that way, I’ll explain. I’m not Katz, and in my comment, I didn’t offer to give up wink
                  About the fact that you write that the Soviet Union was a strong country capable of waging a cold war, well, so I wrote the same thing, here our opinions agreed. And I hope that you will not argue that Russia is not the USSR.
                  Is it scary that we were chosen for confrontation? It’s scary / fearless, but it already exists, and the confrontation is much milder than during the Cold War with the USSR it’s not bad, it’s milder, but it’s not good either, since this confrontation is of little use to us, but harm - Enough, as we will see further, but so far the economy of the USSR does not show any signs of degeneration from dependence formed after the treacherous collapse of the word, and without it it’s not even possible to win, but simply fight on equal terms.
                  Iran and MC21. Well, there are chances. However, do not forget that now there is China and their S919, which is already being prepared for production in a year, it is already flying on tests, and Iran is also trading with China, one way or another. And even let 300 of our MS-21s even go to them — this is not a salvation for profitability — this is too little; Watermelons and Boeings leave hundreds a year. I’m not saying that we don’t need to do the MC-21, I’m not worth waiting for the whole world to start buying them instead of Boeing. We are stupid at logistics, for unknown reasons, to master around the world, from which the Superjet as a commodity mainly suffers, and the very essence of the sales problem, I will describe below.

                  "Looking at how the United States is breaking down the economies and industries of entire target countries with sanctions, many thought about alternative sources of high-tech funds."

                  For example, who besides Iran? DPRK? You see, I cannot think of a country that would go to a serious confrontation with the United States and rush to Russia, as the countries asked for under the wing of the USSR. (Countries that have nowhere to go, such as Syria, are not offered, we are talking about the economy, not military rescue, especially since no one is thinking about MC21 so far) After all, for an ordinary "average" country in the world, it is simply unprofitable now to quarrel with the United States, they even have theoretically, the forces for confrontation will not be enough, and why would they?
                  Now about worldwide sales. But the Superjet was taken from us. And the obvious capitalists instead of Boeing - Mexico, Switzerland, I don't remember all, but someone else wanted a lot. We went to the market with an airplane that we wanted to take. Why did they give up in the end? Yes, stupidly not as from the "enemy of Omerika", but economically-lost the competition, we, and first of all, through our own fault, the matter is in the maintenance of the boards, which is more important than the selling price, it was not considered in comparison with competitors, which for several hours, the engine can be brought in for replacement (while also making money). There is tough competition in the world, where the effectiveness of "defective" managers immediately gives a negative result, and it was they who merged this moment. And give the capitalists a lucrative offer, they will not refuse, they and the capitalists.

                  And in that I agree that MC21 can go to the world market and we don’t need any Iran as an important market, but then we need to at least get a normal manager out of Boeing, since we can’t see our talents in order to develop sales are ok. And then he really can fly around the world, which I would be very happy.
        4. Vladimir61
          Vladimir61 3 May 2020 21: 49 New
          10
          Quote: 210ox
          In current realities, the market can be regulated. Domestic flights, only on domestic aircraft!

          + Yes, and it is not the last day that the country lives in order to abandon all "its" and sing praises to competitors. Sooner or later, but Russia will regain its positions, where it did not follow the path of the pessimists and did not stop scientific and design work.
        5. L-39NG
          L-39NG 4 May 2020 01: 06 New
          -7
          If there is a lot of money in the treasury, then it is possible and so, to force air carriers to buy unprofitable planes, but on the other hand, Russian-made, patriotism is above all, even if it is a lie to save a fairy tale, but it will be possible to replenish the treasury or the National Welfare Fund by raising prices for air tickets, if because of this, people will stop flying, you can raise prices for gasoline, housing and communal services, food. The people may start to worry - they can beat the National Guard. But even those will have to pay. And when the National Guards, except for the absolutely frostbitten ones (psychopaths), begin to ask themselves questions, such as, "Why is everyone alienating me, even my mother?" someone, like it or not, but you have to ...
        6. L-39NG
          L-39NG 4 May 2020 01: 38 New
          -7
          And only footwear of Russian enterprises and the perfume "Red October". And whoever is going abroad, those overalls, so that it would be clear to everyone that Russo is touristy and has a moral image.
          Bab in sundresses, and men in beards, bast shoes and the king keep. Staples need to be watched
          1. Dmitriy Vyazmenskiy
            Dmitriy Vyazmenskiy 4 May 2020 20: 47 New
            +1
            I look people do not react to your stupidity! Yes, this is the most offensive for Ragul
      2. Lexus
        Lexus 3 May 2020 18: 39 New
        -4
        not ate "superjet"?

        The hands-on, thieving "self-planters" and "breakthroughs" are all appropriate.
        1. DVR
          DVR 3 May 2020 21: 13 New
          11
          The author of the video - in such sewage systems there is no such pressure and flow.
          1. DVR
            DVR 3 May 2020 21: 14 New
            +2
            "uдuom" does not skip
        2. sniperino
          sniperino 4 May 2020 11: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: lexus
          and "breakouts" are all relevant
          A breakthrough to bring to the page about the sky and the wings of the gavnets goes more with you from the heart, or do you pay something for this?
      3. gridasov
        gridasov 3 May 2020 18: 43 New
        +8
        market laws do not allow beginners to enter it. You can only break into it with new and obvious innovative solutions. Such a solution could be a fundamentally new type of engine based on the new principles of the propulsion system.
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 3 May 2020 18: 49 New
          -2
          Quote: gridasov
          market laws do not allow beginners to enter it. You can only break into it with new and obvious innovative solutions. Such a solution could be a fundamentally new type of engine based on the new principles of the propulsion system.

          in! business said old! good
        2. Nikolay Ivanov_5
          Nikolay Ivanov_5 3 May 2020 19: 39 New
          15
          This does not happen. Aircraft building, shipbuilding, machine building, machine tool building will not appear only at will and innovative technologies will not fall from the sky. High-tech growth has a long, difficult and difficult path. And if we do not preserve the remnants of industries in our country, then we will never be able to rebuild them, since all this will be much more difficult to do from scratch.
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 3 May 2020 19: 49 New
            +2
            In this case, one does not need to ask others for access to knowledge. It is necessary to change the interaction structure of those who need new technologies and knowledge and those who own elements or a complex of knowledge at different levels.
            1. Nikolay Ivanov_5
              Nikolay Ivanov_5 3 May 2020 19: 55 New
              -1
              Naive simpleton.
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 3 May 2020 20: 02 New
                +3
                And in my opinion, some played too much and lost a sense of reality and consequences without a responsible attitude to the future.
                1. Nikolay Ivanov_5
                  Nikolay Ivanov_5 3 May 2020 20: 05 New
                  0
                  It looks like you will be this person.
                  1. gridasov
                    gridasov 3 May 2020 20: 09 New
                    +2
                    I do not know! But now I’m absolutely sure that there is a slightly different reality, depending on the level of intellectual potential.
                    1. Nikolay Ivanov_5
                      Nikolay Ivanov_5 3 May 2020 20: 23 New
                      0
                      We need different resources, including intellectual ones.
                    2. malyvalv
                      malyvalv 4 May 2020 05: 14 New
                      +2
                      Potential does not appear at one moment. It is necessary to grow it. It is expensive, yes.
        3. Fmax
          Fmax 3 May 2020 21: 28 New
          -3
          Is this with what? Somewhere came up with a new mover more economical and reliable turbojet?
          "a fundamentally new kind of mover based on new principles" - what a nonsense, Karl !?
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 3 May 2020 22: 44 New
            +4
            Exactly ! Initially, a person is not ready to accept that there may be a more advanced technology. And most of these people. And it would be foolish to prove such that initially the properties of a number are laid in the foundation of mathematical analysis. And these properties of the number can also be rediscovered, which makes it possible to analyze deeper and more capacious data interactions. This means that the engine can also be modeled with a deeper understanding of the processes taking place in it
            1. Fmax
              Fmax 3 May 2020 23: 19 New
              -3
              Urgently teach physics to school. Urgently!
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 4 May 2020 08: 33 New
                +1
                You are apparently not dedicated to the fact that the history of the development of detonation rocket engines dates back to the 60s of the last century and the competition did not stop. And the question is not even the final solution, but how to build a complex process with the solution of quantitative, geometric and physical parameters at the same time After all, in order to ensure continuous deflagration, it is necessary to shorten the time period of this impulse phenomenon. In general, there are a lot of such decisions at each stage. And therefore, without a mathematical model, when various definitions and an analysis tool will be reduced to a common tool that can be manipulated when building not only capacious, but dynamically changing transformations of the flow and data, it is impossible to experimentally build both the model and the device from the very beginning. So, you have to master physics and mathematics if you pull. Therefore, in this case, I am talking about the fundamental principles of operation of both new aircraft engines and the technology of operation of new rocket engines.
        4. Dmitriy Vyazmenskiy
          Dmitriy Vyazmenskiy 4 May 2020 20: 54 New
          0
          Or design and build a completely unusual fuselage, which will also act as a lifting force.
      4. svp67
        svp67 3 May 2020 18: 49 New
        20
        Quote: Dead Day
        not ate "superjet"?

        But now it is the airline that operates it that remains profitable. "Each vegetable has its own fruit", the scale of transportation dropped and these airplanes were at their best. More than once I flew on them, as passengers - a NORMAL plane and a lot of noise, around its shortcomings, true or imaginary, I consider one of the "dark sides" of the competition.
        And the MS-21 is needed, but it will not be easy for him, but Russia needs it first of all, enough to give our sky to Boeing, Ayerbas and Bombardier
        1. Altona
          Altona 3 May 2020 19: 13 New
          15
          Quote: svp67
          More than once I flew on them, as passengers - a NORMAL plane and a lot of noise, around its shortcomings, true or imaginary, I consider one of the "dark sides" of the competition.

          ------------------------------
          Yes, there is not "noise", but problems with the engine, since it is French, and spare parts, since there is no normal service. And there is no service, because the "consumables" are imported and the warehouse is located somewhere in Hanover, delivery takes months. That's all. The operation of the aircraft is, first of all, a developed service, and not a super-duper design.
          1. svp67
            svp67 3 May 2020 19: 26 New
            +9
            Quote: Altona
            Yes, there is not "noise", but problems with the engine, since it is French, and spare parts, since there is no normal service.

            "The experts of the" Air Transport Observer "have counted the number of flights performed from April 22 to April 24. The following situation is obtained:
            1. S7 - 403 flights
            2. Aeroflot - 182 flights
            3. Azimut - 85 flights
            4. “UTair” - 70 flights
            5. “Russia” - 66 flights
            6. “Ural Airlines” - 27 flights
            7. Smartavia - 26 flights
            8. NordStar - 21 flights "
            Azimut is an airline operating only Superjets and it has only 11 (ELEVEN) of them, unlike the leaders of the list, S7 has a little more than a hundred boards, and Aeroflot has about three hundred
            1. Altona
              Altona 3 May 2020 19: 29 New
              +2
              Quote: svp67
              The following layout turned out:

              ------------------------
              The presence of a developed service does not cancel this. I'm not talking about whether it is good or bad, it’s just that each airline calculates its service capabilities and what it considers acceptable, since every day of downtime is a loss. That's all.
              1. svp67
                svp67 3 May 2020 19: 31 New
                14
                Quote: Altona
                That's all.

                That is why I am waiting for the PD-21 to be finally put under the wings of the MS-14, but not in one copy and will start flying tightly on them in order to fulfill the necessary testing and certification program. "Yakovlev" knew how to make beautiful passenger cars
          2. Dart2027
            Dart2027 3 May 2020 20: 29 New
            +2
            Quote: Altona
            Aircraft operation is primarily a developed service

            This is so, but this same service was created over the years, during operation, so to create it, you need to build and operate, in no other way.
      5. smart ass
        smart ass 3 May 2020 20: 24 New
        +2
        Is the market busy? Conversation about nothing. Offer the product better and cheaper, the market will fall apart.
        1. Siberian54
          Siberian54 7 May 2020 06: 27 New
          0
          And why did you come here with M / F? Are you an expert on military-technical issues or a fan master?
          1. smart ass
            smart ass 7 May 2020 10: 27 New
            0
            I am a master of trading, airplanes are a civilian product, market principles are the same everywhere
            1. Siberian54
              Siberian54 9 May 2020 13: 37 New
              0
              Well, savembo, otherwise I thought they brought a bigger shovel ..
      6. Botanologist
        Botanologist 3 May 2020 21: 21 New
        10
        Quote: Dead Day
        the market is busy. Too late to drink "borjomi".

        So the car market has been busy for a long time - and the Chinese have begun to make their own. Fools, they don’t know anything about the market fool
        And the oil market has long been divided - the states began to pick shale. and became net importers.
        Probably. do not go to the topvar and experts do not read couches.
      7. Archon
        Archon 4 May 2020 04: 34 New
        0
        the peculiarity of the markets is that there is always the opportunity to take some place. large companies often have their weaknesses and weaknesses - political restrictions, owners' desires, and others.
        Boeing is currently suffering from a decline in reputation and this gives opportunities to those who wish. even during the cold war the technologically saturated west bought frets in the ussr - isn't that fantastic?
      8. Ros 56
        Ros 56 4 May 2020 05: 44 New
        0
        But you, the market was occupied by the American auto industry, when the Japanese and Koreans were just beginning to develop their cars, what can you tell me now in the place of Detroit? Yes, and we once copied the Tu-4 with the B-17, but what about us now, generally I am silent about the turntables? You just need to put your hands and head to any business, sometimes with the whip method.
  2. Karaul73
    Karaul73 3 May 2020 18: 21 New
    +3
    Stop panicking already! The state has funds to support both the aircraft manufacturer and the airlines. The main thing is to start its release. And as quickly as possible.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 3 May 2020 18: 44 New
      -1
      Quote: Sentry73
      Stop panicking already! The state has funds

      Yes, it has everyone ...
      1. Range
        Range 3 May 2020 19: 19 New
        0
        Are you probably the first in line? And you really like it when you are, if you break down into constant verbal copulation with the state and it does not matter in what form. Zadolbali Yudo-Saxons and local whiners. I do not like Russia roll on its fucking West. But Russia will still rise to its full height, and the fewer such Russophobes will be the faster.
        1. Unic
          Unic 3 May 2020 19: 48 New
          -2
          Who is the state represented by? By itself in an airless space exists? With an economy consciously planted on a resource needle, with terry usury, with globalists defining the main vectors of development .. How do you propose that the state get up to its full height - with the help of slogans, or is there some kind of unknown plan. Share, maybe encourage someone to make a contribution to the common cause. Calling a simple business.
          1. Fmax
            Fmax 3 May 2020 21: 31 New
            +2
            First of all, to develop the domestic market. And if you regulate the supply of ms-21 to this market with duties, then it will already be.
    2. iouris
      iouris 3 May 2020 19: 45 New
      -3
      Quote: Sentry73
      Stop panicking already!

      Original: "Help!" and "Stop panicking already!"
      Nobody panics. The issue is being discussed. Curious, where did you get such confidence? In addition, the force majeure has not yet ended and it is far from clear how it will end. This is roughly like an "episode" from 26.04.1986/XNUMX/XNUMX. By the way, then some also shouted that "Stop panicking!"
  3. Amateur
    Amateur 3 May 2020 18: 29 New
    +3
    Therefore, problems with access to the foreign market for the aircraft will be unambiguous.

    The Russian domestic market requires many hundreds of aircraft. But due to kickbacks and ignorance of the interests of the domestic manufacturer on the part of the government, "strange" financial policy on the domestic flights of Boeing and Airbus. They, by the way, do not go for "thanks" but for real money. And there is no money for their planes. I don’t know about the money, but the prosecutor’s office and, most importantly, the desire to deal with the financing of the industry, definitely not.
    1. smart ass
      smart ass 3 May 2020 20: 27 New
      +1
      Nothing, give the product better and cheaper, everyone will come to you.
      1. Amateur
        Amateur 4 May 2020 06: 22 New
        +1
        give the product better and cheaper, everyone will come to you.

        When a / c buy their plane, the salary goes to Russian workers and engineers. + taxes to the Russian budget. Buying a Boeing or Airbus we finance their workers and their state. As soon as the government introduces a tax on imported aircraft, the Russians will immediately become profitable. But who cares? Kickbacks who will pay.
  4. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 3 May 2020 18: 29 New
    +5
    The success here lies in the consistent protectionism of MC21 in the domestic market ... all the more, equipping it with Western units can vary ... Leasing in rubles and onward.
    1. iouris
      iouris 3 May 2020 19: 47 New
      -2
      Quote: Zaurbek
      The success here is in the consistent protectionism of MC21 in the domestic market ...

      "Protectionism" and protectionism are prohibited: we have joined the WTO. Say, then? But I won't tell ...
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 3 May 2020 20: 01 New
        +3
        The WTO is already in the next world .... and it was not we who sent it there in 2014 and 2015 .... Sanctions on sanctions are valid until the sanctions are lifted. By the way, remember how the liners bought for Dobrolet and Victory?
        1. iouris
          iouris 3 May 2020 20: 07 New
          -1
          The WTO was doomed from the moment the Russian Federation became part of it. The meaning of the entry is to sell oil, gas and other types of "duty-free". However, these resources are not currently being sold. At the same time, Trump can punish anyone, the EU too. They also punish with the dollar (and there is no other currency).
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 3 May 2020 22: 27 New
            +1
            Airbus is also sold at $$$ and has parts made in USA.
            1. iouris
              iouris 3 May 2020 23: 11 New
              -3
              In the world in which the Russian Federation was so eager, the Russian Federation is obliged to buy sophisticated equipment and supply natural resources by selling them on the $$$ oil. When the Russian Federation jumps out alive from this system, then it will be possible to continue the conversation.
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 4 May 2020 09: 56 New
                0
                Not at all .... this world opens for us both technology and equipment and Western components. You just have to use it, and not withdraw money offshore. And an indisputable plus of the Russian Federation is a large domestic aircraft market. No need to focus on completely own designs. At first glance, everything is right with the MS: there are imported components and their duplicating ours.
                1. iouris
                  iouris 4 May 2020 13: 16 New
                  0
                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  there are imported components and their duplicating ours.

                  ... and there are sanctions - political barriers. Sanctions direct the policy of the Russian Federation in the right direction. Need someone?
                  1. Zaurbek
                    Zaurbek 4 May 2020 14: 36 New
                    0
                    Sanctions direct, but offer, the only choice ... specifically with MS21 they slowed down its development .... the main political will to do this. And it’s easy to justify its economic efficiency both in + and in. In YouTube and the press, exactly 50/50 publications about MC21 fail / have no analogues. We have to do our job. And in our country it is not enough to create an airplane, it is necessary to create conditions so that there would be a stone to whom and where to fly.
  5. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 3 May 2020 18: 34 New
    +8
    In 2021, Russian airlines should receive the first MS-21 airliners. This aircraft is still causing conflicting estimates.

    There is no plane itself. No experience in its operation. But !!! Conflicting assessments have already appeared ...
    A domestic-made aircraft on domestic routes will help reduce dependence on the dollar and Western technology, and in addition, create a host of high-tech jobs. This is great! Just great! What are the contradictions? It will not be possible to launder the loot, turning Russian rubles into dollars? Or fuel economy does not allow to cheat ticket prices?
    1. Altona
      Altona 3 May 2020 19: 18 New
      -3
      Quote: ROSS 42
      A domestic-made aircraft on domestic routes will help reduce dependence on the dollar and Western technology, and in addition, create a host of high-tech jobs.

      ----------------------------
      This is again "ni-zya-aa". Aren't you convinced that the government is completely dependent on shouts from the West?
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 4 May 2020 09: 57 New
      +1
      Even the assembled and partially produced Boeing in the Russian Federation is better than the Boeing brought from the USA .....
      1. Altona
        Altona 4 May 2020 13: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: Zaurbek
        Even the assembled and partially produced Boeing in the Russian Federation is better than the Boeing brought from the USA .....

        -------------------------
        Doubtfully better, relatively. One must be the owners of the franchise, and not by draft.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 4 May 2020 14: 31 New
          -1
          I wrote not "great", but "better than" ....
          1. Altona
            Altona 4 May 2020 14: 53 New
            +3
            Quote: Zaurbek
            I wrote not "great", but "better than" ....

            ----------------------
            At least "better than", at least "excellent" will be like a "Ford" farm laborers' money to pay, and not a decent salary. Taxes are also unknown where they will go to which offshore, engineering is truncated, copyrights are generally unknown at whom. In general, if such products are allowed on their own market, then under powerful tax pressure, when there was still a powerful fleet of their own aircraft industry, but then the drunk and his follower are now going "their own way" within the WTO and the full opening of the market for bribes from Airbus and Boeing ... This is a detailed answer if you did not understand the short remark above.
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 4 May 2020 15: 45 New
              -1
              To bring the "Indians" to the state of people who make cars themselves ..... this must be done. The Koreans have covered this path in 30-40 years. We are not.
  6. marchcat
    marchcat 3 May 2020 18: 34 New
    -2
    In my opinion, it is enough to impose a ban on the use of imported equipment in civil aviation, the prospects will immediately become huge, there would be a desire of "aviation officials", although in the domestic market, but nevertheless, Asia will catch up.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 3 May 2020 18: 51 New
      -5
      Quote: marchcat
      In my opinion, it is enough to impose a ban on the use of imported equipment in civil aviation, the prospects will immediately become huge, there would be a desire of "aviation officials", although in the domestic market, but nevertheless, Asia will catch up.

      fuck your "in my opinion".
    2. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 3 May 2020 19: 11 New
      0
      And domestic transportation will disappear right there. Unless, of course, the MS does not surpass the profitability of A and B.
      1. malyvalv
        malyvalv 4 May 2020 05: 22 New
        -1
        If the plane is brought to mind, then Boeings and Watermelons will lose profitability with one stroke of Mishustin’s pen.
    3. Altona
      Altona 3 May 2020 19: 15 New
      -4
      Quote: marchcat
      In my opinion, it is enough to introduce a ban

      -----------------------
      Nizya-aa, some conventional Burkhalter will fly in and explain that "no-zya-aa".
    4. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 4 May 2020 09: 59 New
      0
      It is possible and so ..... but we have the Soviet Union ended, and he in one person had a profit and with oil (kerosene) and taxes of enterprises and banks and from all over and could redistribute. Not now. Who will work in "0" from this chain flying now on Tu154 ?!
    5. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 5 May 2020 13: 04 New
      0
      There should not be a complete ban, there should be some competition so that our manufacturers do not relax.
  7. Titus_2
    Titus_2 3 May 2020 18: 37 New
    0
    The main thing is the will and decisions of the government .... there would be a desire with all sorts of duties and other things, just like in the 90s we systematically destroyed our aircraft industry and imported junk ..... now, for example, you can’t bring used cars either. Here already whose lobby is stronger, and so two God.
  8. codetalker
    codetalker 3 May 2020 18: 46 New
    +1
    It is very important to maximize the “content” of domestic components. Even if at first it leads to a rise in price. The second superjet is not needed.
    1. iouris
      iouris 3 May 2020 20: 10 New
      -7
      Quote: codetalker
      It is very important to maximize the “content” of domestic components.

      Important, but not possible. The Russian Federation is not capable of producing even cars that comply with the UNECE Rules, and certification of aircraft and their equipment (components) is a very special topic. It starts with a computer-aided design system.
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 4 May 2020 10: 01 New
      0
      Do not need. the operator should have the right to order the turbojet engine that is easier for him to service.
      1. iouris
        iouris 4 May 2020 10: 10 New
        0
        The operator has the right to buy whatever he wants. But he, of course, pursues the benefit of shareholders, and therefore buys what he buys. It should be borne in mind that Airbus and Boeing guarantee the operator a life cycle cost for thirty years in advance, and not just sell the equipment. In addition, Russian manufacturers are "subject to political regulation", i.e. are under sanctions.
  9. knn54
    knn54 3 May 2020 18: 49 New
    -4
    The cost of TOTAL is 10 ... 15% lower than that of competitors. -90 million against 100/110 million. The bourgeoisie will easily throw this difference.
    The cost of the Chinese Comac C919 will not exceed 50 million. Even if it’s near 60, the difference is serious.
    1. mark1
      mark1 3 May 2020 19: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: knn54
      That's the cost of the Chinese Comac C919 will not exceed 50 million.

      Soon the fairy tale affects ...
    2. d4rkmesa
      d4rkmesa 3 May 2020 19: 36 New
      +3
      This is unlikely, because the cost of one LEAP 1C is at least 15 million plus there are still a lot of imported parts. In fact, the assembly is then "free" and the profit is 0. Although, the pricing and profitability of the aircraft industry is a delicate matter.
  10. borys
    borys 3 May 2020 19: 02 New
    +8
    Less need to think about the world market, you need to return your market
    to their manufacturers. For me, it would be necessary categorically
    to prohibit the operation of Western aircraft on domestic routes.
    The aircraft industry can only work with serious
    support of the state, in another there has never been anywhere and never.
    In the 70s of the last century there was a scandal connected with
    with Lockheed. The US government gave a damn about dogma
    market economy and gave money from the budget to save the company.
    This problem also affected the British Rolls-Royce. British
    the government also went non-market way - a national
    they were In the West, they understand well - high-tech
    industries are more important than market dogmas.
    1. iouris
      iouris 3 May 2020 23: 16 New
      -1
      The market occupied by the USSR was donated to Airbus. For many, many years in the aviation industry, put aside, nothing happened in the Ministry of Industry and Trade. During this time, the "partners" have gone far ahead. The "domestic market" is far ahead of the manufacturing plants.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 49 New
      0
      Remember Rolls-Royce continues to be a state company? There was a necessary measure, with the understanding that in the hands of a private trader in most cases it will work more efficiently.
  11. Klingon
    Klingon 3 May 2020 19: 09 New
    +2
    * According to representatives of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of Russia, the MS-21 aircraft must withstand competition with aircraft from such world-famous aviation giants as Boeing and Airbus. After all, the MS-21 is planned as an aircraft with an increased level of comfort for passengers. This quality is achieved thanks to the widest fuselage in this class of airborne vehicles. As a result, the liner can accommodate more spacious and comfortable chairs, or make a wide passage in which two people can freely stretch *

    this is where complete nonsense begins, no airline in the world will care about passenger comfort, especially economy class, just more seats are stuffed into the wider fuselage, that's all. This was already in the 50s-60s, when aircraft of increased comfort began to rivet and everyone knows how it ended — they removed the compartment and stuffed more and more crowded seats. Who wants to throw tugriks at their own expense?
    1. Mitroha
      Mitroha 3 May 2020 21: 32 New
      +2
      Not certainly in that way. It turns out a lot of variability. It is possible to play with classes and passenger capacity depending on the customer / directions.
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 3 May 2020 22: 09 New
        +1
        this is understandable, but the Emirates, for example, will not buy it (and they would have decided but the benefit of comfort), unless India
    2. iouris
      iouris 4 May 2020 00: 10 New
      0
      Well, do not tell me - depending on who they are making the plane for. If only 4% of the population flies (but very often), they don’t care how much they cost.
      I don’t know who will be able to fly, starting from which date and where it will be allowed.
    3. malyvalv
      malyvalv 4 May 2020 05: 27 New
      0
      There is no question of increasing the number of seats. There, just a little to warm up in the aisle with a cart of food was possible. A very useful feature will be.
  12. Not_invented
    Not_invented 3 May 2020 19: 10 New
    +8
    The main thing is to establish the infrastructure for the supply of spare parts. Whether the plane is at least 3 times cheaper than its competitors and 5 times more innovative, nobody needs it if it takes 6 months to deliver a replacement relay for the transponder. Logistics will be established at a price comparable to competitors - there will be sales.
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 47 New
      +1
      Absolutely right good
  13. calm
    calm 3 May 2020 19: 16 New
    -2
    First you need to certify the aircraft in the Federal Air Transport Agency, and this is still a problem. And do not forget that now the aircraft is undergoing certification tests with an American engine.
    1. iouris
      iouris 4 May 2020 23: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: calm
      need to certify the plane

      ... in the US and in the EU. SSJ is the first attempt to "join the world aviation". A project ruined in Brazil was taken, a lot of money was invested, as a result ...
      By the way, there was an article in which an expert from the USA claims that the French certified a problematic unfinished engine for this facility.
  14. Klingon
    Klingon 3 May 2020 19: 18 New
    0
    Quote: Amateur
    Therefore, problems with access to the foreign market for the aircraft will be unambiguous.

    The Russian domestic market requires many hundreds of aircraft. But due to kickbacks and ignorance of the interests of the domestic manufacturer on the part of the government, "strange" financial policy on the domestic flights of Boeing and Airbus. They, by the way, do not go for "thanks" but for real money. And there is no money for their planes. I don’t know about the money, but the prosecutor’s office and, most importantly, the desire to deal with the financing of the industry, definitely not.

    if Russian airlines leave such stubborn flights like Vladivostok-Moscow-Khabarovsk, then everyone will be in trouble. It is necessary to develop a fleet of aircraft such as the Yak-40 and Tu-134 and launch along shortened routes as it was in the USSR. But this niche is also busy, there Embraer
  15. dgonni
    dgonni 3 May 2020 19: 20 New
    +1
    I am touched by the author by stating that in the domestic market certification according to Euro norms. Yes, you can get to buy ms 21 Aeroflot. But the question is that the plane is not a minibus which does not roll further than the MKAD. He must constantly fly and make a profit. And the owner of the airplane does not give a damn about the overhead in the form of fuel consumption and maintenance. As well as the ability to load an airplane with work.
    Reminds the eighties of the USSR. Sovtransavto because of the same certification and efficiency were forced to ride the cordon at all kinds of Mercedes and Volvo. In modern realities, nobody will be in their right mind to buy a new Eroplane that is not allowed into Europe.
    1. malyvalv
      malyvalv 4 May 2020 05: 31 New
      +1
      In the world, besides Europe, there are many places where you can fly. And the money there is paid the same.
  16. Zeev Zeev
    Zeev Zeev 3 May 2020 19: 26 New
    0
    75% of the world market is reserved for Boeing and Airbus. And the remaining 25% for the Canadian "Bombardier" and the Brazilian "Embraer". These two firms from the leading aircraft building powers have firmly occupied their niches in the short-haul airliner market over a couple of decades.
  17. rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 3 May 2020 19: 48 New
    +2
    The first step should be to use a volitional decision on domestic flights, no markets will help here, since the cost will decrease only with the number of airliners produced
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 31 New
      +1
      “Willful decision” - that is, elements of a command economy? So and to the decisions of the Council of Ministers on the introduction of innovations close. Can Gosplan recover smile
  18. exo
    exo 3 May 2020 20: 02 New
    +3
    If the state will compensate for aircraft downtime for technical reasons (the example of the Superjet is more than obvious), the difference in the cost of operating with the Airbus (and their cost will be more than low in the light of the pandemic story, and the characteristics will be much higher. Not paper, but real ) .Then, the airlines will operate them.
    But, this is unlikely to happen.
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 45 New
      +1
      I suggest that you invest the costs in the cost of tickets for these aircraft, add the note “support for the domestic manufacturer”. Most citizens will specifically choose these flights winked (the same large middle class)
  19. Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 3 May 2020 20: 15 New
    0
    Given the attitude of Russia to its Western partners, we can guarantee that they will put sticks in the wheels of this project at all stages of production and promote it on the international market ... we must strive to use 100% domestic equipment ...
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 32 New
      +1
      Not enough modern nodes.
  20. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 3 May 2020 20: 28 New
    -1
    For some reason, the author went around the topic of PD 14 and its installation on MS 21 instead of Pratt and Whitney, or Rolls Royce, I don’t know exactly what they plan to install there, and until MS 21 starts regular flights abroad on our certified engines we buy Boeing and Airbus, we won’t get anywhere from this
    1. U-58
      U-58 4 May 2020 04: 13 New
      +1
      But there is no topic.
      According to the established (not ours) tradition, the Pratts will put on the first series.
      Then switch to PD-14.
      The engine is driven to treat childhood diseases. It looks like he will be ready for the deadline.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 34 New
      +1
      Plans are plans. PW is already there, reliable and with a bunch of spare parts.
      Logistics and technical support are very important.
  21. Pavel57
    Pavel57 3 May 2020 20: 37 New
    +1
    In a crisis, the aircraft industry can only be maintained by subsidies.
  22. wert111
    wert111 3 May 2020 20: 39 New
    +2
    Business breakthroughs are not real these days. You just need to hammer at one point for a long time and persistently. Make, modernize, organize, correct mistakes. And after a while, the quality will improve, and the reputation, and customers will be drawn. And the aircraft industry in Russia is needed! Don't listen to the whining of liberals. "Work brothers".
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 37 New
      +1
      Perhaps the appropriate conditions have not been created for the business?
  23. ZAV69
    ZAV69 3 May 2020 20: 43 New
    +2
    I do not understand what the problem is ? All authors immediately say that the difficulties of entering the foreign market. And why do we need this foreign market at the initial stage? Our airlines fly on Boeing and Aybas in Russia. Make it so that in Russia they fly on domestic sides. And do not think that this is impossible. Everything is possible. The videoconferencing does not fly on F16, the army does not ride abrams and leoprads. And then, after several years of operation, you can offer for export when your companies fly on it.
    1. Ronald Reagan
      Ronald Reagan 4 May 2020 12: 19 New
      +1
      Companies came to earn money, and not to support a domestic producer at their own expense.
      1. ZAV69
        ZAV69 4 May 2020 23: 43 New
        -1
        But what, the support of the domestic manufacturer prevents them from making money? And where did these companies come from? Could you tell ? And I will answer you, in the 90s they robbed the country and are now being fattened. As they say, the time has come to pay off debts, all the more MC21 should be no worse than a similar Boeing. And the power of our government is to ensure that these companies fly across Russia using Russian technology. Do not want to? So let them go where they came from. Others will come and work. That's just there will not be such unfortunately. To do this, we need iron bells, but they are not.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 39 New
      +1
      The army does not need to think about profit and payback.
      In addition, foreign companies that purchased SSD-100 had big problems with spare parts (as an example). Unlike Bombardier and Embraer aircraft.
      1. ZAV69
        ZAV69 5 May 2020 00: 44 New
        0
        Quote: 3danimal
        In addition, foreign companies that purchased SSD-100 had big problems with spare parts (as an example). Unlike Bombardier and Embraer aircraft.

        So I say, it is necessary to begin here, with us. A service network is easier to deploy in one country than in the whole world. The bombardier and the embyre have already established a service network, and who has deployed it for ssd -100?
  24. Maas
    Maas 3 May 2020 20: 59 New
    +1
    The USSR flew only on Soviet aircraft and everything was fine.
    1. iouris
      iouris 4 May 2020 13: 14 New
      0
      The USSR was condemned and dissolved.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 5 May 2020 00: 41 New
      0
      It was not good, but there was no choice. Plus the ability to classify information about accidents.
  25. gorunov
    gorunov 3 May 2020 21: 27 New
    0
    The MS-21 even has an emergency door in the center, the SuperJet-100 does not. If anything, then the central passengers may not be in time ...


    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 5 May 2020 08: 28 New
      +2
      So they have different sizes and capacity .... I think there is some kind of norm for the number of doors (and emergency exits) for the number of passengers.
  26. veritas
    veritas 3 May 2020 22: 09 New
    +4
    It is now clear that the MS-21 can succeed in two ways. The first is the domestic market, where there is a need for modern domestic aircraft. There are no barriers in the form of certification of the western standard here. The only probable problem is the cost of the aircraft.

    If the price of the aircraft is 20% -30% cheaper than similar ones, then success is guaranteed. Of course, provided that the economy will not differ from the declared.
  27. Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 3 May 2020 22: 35 New
    +2
    = For example, when creating an airplane, modern polymer composite materials are widely used, including due to which it was possible to construct a wing with increased aerodynamic quality. =
    Perfectly. So the plane should spend less fuel, i.e. to be economical.
    = At the same time, it was the Russian company AeroComposite-Ulyanovsk that was the first in the world to significantly reduce the cost of production of these materials. =
    This means that the cost of manufacturing the vehicle will be less in comparison with the Boeing.
    = The only probable problem is the cost of the aircraft. And this question is very significant, especially in conditions ... =
    Not clear what the problem is? If the MC-21 is cheaper to manufacture and operate in comparison with the Boeing, then our airlines will be happy to buy it. Or am I misunderstanding something?
    And the author’s concern is incomprehensible to me - will he be competitive in the international market?
    Yes, we would saturate our market with airplanes. Of course, I understand that it would be nice to sell a couple of hundred cars over a hill, but production capacities cannot simultaneously saturate your market and also foreign ones.
    = Therefore, there is a certain risk that the MS-21 will not go into mass production in the next few years. =
    Those. again, our companies will buy Boeing and Watermelon?
    Something is wrong here.
  28. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 3 May 2020 22: 46 New
    +1
    Domestic airlines need airplanes with standing places, ala minibus. What is the difference how to carry the population, the main thing that would be profitable
  29. Oleg Zorin
    Oleg Zorin 4 May 2020 00: 35 New
    +4
    Everything rests on the presence or absence of infrastructure for the service. If the spare part needs to be delivered for a week, then the plane will repeat the fate of the superjet. And it does not matter that it is 15% more economical, 16,5% faster, 52% quieter. If the plane is on the ground due to unorganized maintenance, nobody needs it!
  30. U-58
    U-58 4 May 2020 03: 35 New
    +4
    Of course, the plane must be done.
    Even despite the fact that the secretary secretary Burbulis buried the domestic aviation industry back in 1992.
    A protectionist policy is also needed.
    Today pass a law banning the leasing of used aircraft in 10 years. Then, a ban on the use on any flights of any import equipment. And do not care about the WTO.
    The only way to win.
  31. Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 4 May 2020 08: 54 New
    +1
    Airplanes - made their own, well, fine. But airplanes are only a means, and aviation policy is another matter. Why does your power not make it so that everyone can fly, and with what planes is this the second thing ...

    At any moment I can buy a ticket from Sofia to Berlin, London, Rome or Paris for 8-25 euros and fly for a walk on the weekend. Taxi in Berlin is more expensive than airfare .... I think it is more important for consumers. Yes, and for the economy and tourism, too.
    1. iouris
      iouris 4 May 2020 13: 19 New
      -1
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      Why will your power not make everyone fly?

      Our power did first for you, now it will do for us. It will be difficult, but we are not afraid of difficulties.
  32. Klingon
    Klingon 4 May 2020 09: 36 New
    +1
    Quote: 7,62x54
    Domestic airlines need airplanes with standing places, ala minibus. What is the difference how to carry the population, the main thing that would be profitable

    it would be advantageous to rivet smaller and more economical machines, such as the Yak-40, An-24 Tu-134 and launch along the routes that were in the USSR, when it was real to fly from Ufa, for example, to Yekaterinburg directly and not through Glamurgrad. already wrote wrote received a minus. Although strange, it is only in the Russian Federation so. In Germany, for example, from Friedrichshafen Airport (just one terminal)
    that little one) fly to Munich or Frankfurt (half an hour flight) while the plane does not fly first to Berlin and then to Munich or Frankfurt
  33. Comrade Michael
    Comrade Michael 4 May 2020 13: 51 New
    -2
    We will solve everything, we will do everything. Break through. But in order to burn with creativity, this power is not really needed. I believe in romantic Russians and Russians. It's not about the MS-21. The point is the future of Russia. I personally see a lot of interesting topics in aviation.
    1. Wolnik
      Wolnik 4 May 2020 14: 05 New
      -5
      I personally see a lot of interesting topics in aviation

      I agree with you
  34. Whirlwind
    Whirlwind 4 May 2020 16: 15 New
    +1
    Or maybe the middle peasants of the MS-21 and the Superjets are more lucky than the wide-body Boeings and Airbuses?
    With closed borders, these wide-body bodies are out of work, and on domestic lines they will have to wait a long time for occupant occupancy, and time is money ...
    So let's take a look ...
  35. shonsu
    shonsu 4 May 2020 16: 41 New
    +2
    Ilya Polonsky, do you know the words from the song Neuss MC? In general, there that no one asked you. All the troubles are due to whining ... yours. And everyone else will be fine! )))
  36. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 4 May 2020 17: 35 New
    -1
    ..the future of the MS-21 will completely run into a financial problem.
    The biggest problem is Minister Manturov. yes
  37. DWG1905
    DWG1905 4 May 2020 21: 31 New
    +1
    Is the MS-21 a biplane, why does it have two wings? How can I write articles about airplanes without understanding how the airplane generally flies and that the monoplane has one wing. And in this case, the plane is made of the composite, well, or the BVP (detachable part of the wing). The fool understands that a place in the international market (not controlled by us) is occupied. It is necessary to control the market, and it is controlled only by force of arms, and then finance, etc. Its niche is the domestic market of several dozen cars. But you need to do it so as not to degrade.
  38. Romario_Argo
    Romario_Argo 4 May 2020 23: 01 New
    +1
    blah blah blah blah - there is such a thing as "leasing" - the same VTB-leasing,
    the factories don’t care at all, abroad, again, as a variant of MS, the state will sell it, paying regularly to the plant from the same SWF or, as they already said from Sberbank
  39. core
    core 5 May 2020 20: 02 New
    0
    We see the "wealth" of Boeing with our own eyes. almost bankrupt. even for a month Boeing has no liquidity for staff salaries. 60 lards of American green tugriks are expected from the state. even on the embraer four lard was not scraped.
    But about the high cost of the MS-21, which competitors are cheaper !? and who now buys airplanes at all !? everything is only through leasing.
  40. EvilLion
    EvilLion 6 May 2020 08: 49 New
    0
    Airlines will not be able to acquire Boeings either, so everything is simply stretched out over time.
  41. zvonix
    zvonix 6 May 2020 21: 31 New
    0
    What the hell is the foreign market? !!!! Existing production plans are not able to saturate the domestic market for 10 years.