Military Review

Ukraine is interested in purchasing JF-17 Block III

200

Ukrainian Air Force delegation led by the commander aviation Colonel General Sergey Drozdov visited Pakistan’s Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAF) in Kamra on March 6 this year, initiating speculation that Kiev is considering buying military aircraft manufactured here.


This visit is much more than just posing in front of the camera. AFU are trying to urgently replace the MiG-29 and Su-27 with an average experience of 30 years, inherited from the former Soviet Union, which are too old for major modernization

- said an anonymous interlocutor from Ukrainian industry to the Indian edition of Defense World.

According to this media, we are talking about the JF-17 Block III fighter, the first flight of which took place in January 2020. PAF uploaded photographs depicting the Ukrainian military on the background of aircraft under construction, similar to the JF-17.

According to Defense World, the JF-17 Block III attracts attention from potential buyers mainly due to its low cost, the presence of radar with AFAR, the latest guidance systems and electronic warfare, similar to those that are equipped with much more expensive cars, such as F- 16 and Jas 39 Gripen.

For the price it’s at least not the F-35, which the former Minister of Defense of the Independent Stepan Poltorak promised to show in the sky.


Photos used:
https://www.pac.org.pk/
200 comments
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  1. Pereira
    Pereira April 28 2020 23: 07 New
    14
    Do not master. Too complicated technique.
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 02: 07 New
      -46
      He smiled. laughing That's not least because of such a capricious attitude - and they beat you quasiperiodically.
      1. vostok68
        vostok68 April 29 2020 03: 30 New
        19
        Who is beating us? It is especially interesting to listen about Crimea, how you beat us there! Haha
        1. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber April 29 2020 04: 46 New
          -47
          Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ?? wink smile
          1. Graz
            Graz April 29 2020 05: 12 New
            27
            man, how is our country the largest in the world by territory, if everyone hits it?
            your country never had independence, and never won anything because it never existed and it will soon sink into oblivion again under the weight of bankruptcy, escape of the population, historical and linguistic internal problems
            1. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber April 29 2020 05: 24 New
              -39
              Canada is also very big. smile Having east of the Ural ridge until the end of the XIX century. the most serious of the opponents - the Siberian Khanate almost half a century before that - was expanding quite easily.
              Well and yes - that my country "will soon sink into oblivion" - in 2023 there will be 30 years, as I first read the "authoritative opinion". "How long is it" soon "... (C) wassat I have already managed to turn gray a little since then. smile
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya April 29 2020 07: 00 New
                21
                It’s immediately obvious that you don’t know the story, but it is not surprising, because you are famous for your ignorance and darkness. Russia in the east coexisted with the Kazan Khanate, which was a large and powerful state.
                And Canada is actually a British territory, like Australia, New Zealand, the Falklands, the Bahamas and a bunch of territories all over the planet.
                1. Zementbomber
                  Zementbomber April 29 2020 16: 06 New
                  -10
                  Victim of the exam ?? bully Kazan Khanate - This is the Volga region. Middle Volga to be exact. And Canada is a sovereign state under the purely nominal authority of the English Crown.
                  Google
                  https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вестминстерский_статут
                  1. Kot_Kuzya
                    Kot_Kuzya April 30 2020 20: 12 New
                    0
                    Again, you demonstrate your complete ignorance. Kazan and Moscow are located at the same latitude. So if you go from Moscow strictly east, you will not pass Kazan. As for Canada, this is British territory, this is the monarchy, the head of Canada is the British monarch, his interests are represented by the Governor General, who has the broadest powers and is the commander in chief of the Canadian Armed Forces. When accepting Canadian citizenship, the future Canadian citizen swears allegiance to the British monarch, the Canadian military, swears allegiance to the British monarch.
                    1. Zementbomber
                      Zementbomber 1 May 2020 20: 54 New
                      -2
                      Kazan and Moscow are located at the same latitude. So if you go from Moscow strictly east, you will not pass Kazan.

                      Og. Now let's see what I wrote:
                      Having east of Ural ridge until the end of the XIX century. the most serious of the opponents - the Siberian Khanate almost half a century before that - was expanding quite easily.

                      From Kazan to the western foot of the Ural ridge - several hundred versts to the East need to be cut. So "sit down Vovochka - again a deuce!" laughing
                      Now about the Governor General of Canada:
                      Despite the fact that the Monarch of the United Kingdom is also the Monarch of Canada, Her Majesty’s Government does not have the right to advise [the candidate] of the Governor General or interfere in the internal, as well as external affairs of Canada, since the Dominion Canada is an independent, sovereign state . This status of Canada is recognized by the Westminster Statute of 1931.

                      А real the powers of the Governor General of Canada are currently almost exclusively representative and ceremonial. Although abstract-legal - part of the real power, he can still take on himself under certain conditions. But this extreme one has yet happened already in 1925.
                      In short - you "again deuce!" bully
                      1. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 1 May 2020 23: 34 New
                        0
                        Write nonsense again. British monarch appoints governor-general; Canadian prime minister can only give advice to the monarch the candidacy of the governor-general, but the final decision remains with the monarch. The Governor-General has the broadest powers: he is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Canada, has the right to remove federal ministers, deputies, judges and even the Prime Minister of Canada, has the right to dissolve the Parliament of Canada and call new elections. That is, in fact, the Governor General of Canada has the authority of the head of the Russian region. To say that Canada is an independent and sovereign country is just as stupid as to say that Tatarstan, Chechnya or Yakutia are independent states. Read for the sake of interest the Constitution of the Republic of Russia, they also say that "Yakutia is a sovereign state with its own Constitution." Although everyone understands that Yakutia is not a sovereign state at all.
                        Article 1

                        1. The Republic of Sakha (Yakutia) is a democratic state based on the right of the people to self-determination.

                        2. The Republic of Sakha (Yakutia) has its own territory, population, Constitution and legislation, a system of public authorities, as well as state symbols and state languages.
                      2. Zementbomber
                        Zementbomber 2 May 2020 04: 44 New
                        -2
                        How everything is up and running. bully
                        To begin with, the Monarch of Canada (the title of British Crown in Canada) has the right to appoint the Governor General only on the recommendation of the Prime Minister of Canada. The Prime Minister’s recommendation may be rejected by the Queen, but to appoint a person not recommended by the Prime Minister “over the head” of the Prime Minister - she will be appointed to this position not has rights.
                        The Supreme Commander of Canadian Forces is the Queen. But - only nominal. The strategic leadership of the Armed Forces - is carried out by the Council of Canadian Forces, chaired by the Chief of Staff of the Defense of Canada. Administrative - Minister of National Defense.
                        The Governor-General has the right to dissolve the House of Commons only on the recommendation of the Prime Minister or if the House rejects a candidate who has been given the mandate to form the Cabinet. In this case, a mandate can only be given to a deputy of the chamber.
                        The Governor-General has no right to remove the Prime Minister and even more so the federal Ministers through the head of the Prime Minister and the House. Remove deputies without their request for resignation or decision acc. Chambers on deprivation of a deputy’s authority - has no right all the more.
                        Members of the Supreme Court - appointed by the Governor General only on the recommendation of the Prime Minister. The remaining judges are appointed by the Federal Government, Provinces, etc., without even the nominal participation of the Governor General.
                        Well, "cherry in the cake": in Anglo-Saxon law there is the concept of "sleeping [expired, but formally continuing to exist] powers." Not a single Governor-General has, over the past 150 years, for example, rejected a single Canadian Law.
                        And yes - without the advice of the Prime Minister - the Monarch is not authorized to decide on the appointment of the Governor General. Therefore, even if one does not take into account the tradition (which plays no less role in the Anglo-Saxon practice than the written norms) - an unacceptable candidate for the role of Governor-General - cannot be appointed. This is about the "last word".
                        Well, declare that:
                        To say that Canada is an independent and sovereign country is just as stupid as to say that Tatarstan, Chechnya or Yakutia are independent states.

                        - This is just ZAKATNOY Brad.
                        Generally - "Sit down again - deuce again!" bully
                      3. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 2 May 2020 06: 02 New
                        +1
                        This is you talking nonsense. It is clear that you do not know Russian. The recommendation is not binding. Canadian law does not prohibit the monarch from resigning the prime minister, federal ministers or judges, or dissolving the Canadian Parliament. And since a Canadian citizen swears allegiance to the British monarch, just as a Canadian soldier swears allegiance to the British monarch, they are obliged to comply with the instructions, laws and orders of the British monarch, and not the prime minister of Canada. By the way, do you even know that Britain has no Constitution, and the British monarch is essentially unlimited in its actions?
                      4. Zementbomber
                        Zementbomber 2 May 2020 06: 25 New
                        -1
                        OMG, what nonsense again! recourse bully
                        The recommendation is not binding.

                        In that sense. that it can be rejected - yes. But the appointment of the Governor General bypassing the recommendation is impossible.
                        Canadian law does not prohibit the monarch from resigning the prime minister, federal ministers or judges, or dissolving the Canadian Parliament.

                        For reference: there is such a thing. as a "positive legalization." Those. - some action can be performed - only if it is expressly permitted or prescribed by law. The powers of representatives of the authorities in democratic legal states relate specifically to the sphere of "positive legalization." The rule - "All that is not prohibited by the Law is permitted" is an exclusive privilege. private citizen (or non-ordinary - but only in the case when he acts as an ordinary citizen).
                        Well, I advise you to read The Oath of Citizenship. And to clarify at the same time - how limited a category of citizens of Canada is obliged to accept it.
                        By the way, do you even know that Britain has no Constitution, and the British monarch is essentially unlimited in its actions?

                        I am aware that this nonsense has circulation in modern Russia. bully What constitutions - there are notwritten? - no, not heard. Corps of Charter and Organic Laws? - similarly. The role of custom, precedent and judgment in Anglo-Saxon constitutional law? - Yes, how do we know? Victims of the exam, Mlyn ... fool
                      5. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 2 May 2020 06: 41 New
                        +1
                        This nonsense is yours "What constitutions are and are unwritten." The law, including the Constitution, will only work if they are written. How can the law be unwritten? The Unwritten Law is a custom, they can be interpreted both ways and often, in their favor, for example, they interpret their unwritten the laws of prisoners, and, moreover, they always interpret in their favor. No wonder the ancient states, as soon as writing appeared, began to publish their own codes of laws prescribing what to do, what should not be done, and what punishments should be incurred by violators of the Law. In fact, the British monarchy is absolute, but liberal historians, writers and journalists love to drive us into a kind of “constitutional British monarchy,” but they either don’t really know or are consciously silent about the fact that there is no Constitution in Britain.
                        So answer me one simple question - how can a country, in this case Canada, be a sovereign country if its citizens and military personnel swear allegiance to the British monarch?
                      6. Zementbomber
                        Zementbomber 2 May 2020 07: 03 New
                        0
                        Do you know how much centuries It has passed from the moment the legislation appeared in Russia until the first Arch The laws of the Russian Empire, known as the "Speransky Code"?
                        Well and yes - school geography textbooks ("Great Britain: formally a monarchy, actually a parliamentary republic" (c)) and World History of the Brezhnev era - were written by "liberals", the stump is rotten, he wants a Christmas tree four times a day. bully
                        The law, including the Constitution, will only work if they are written. How can the law be unwritten?

                        Read the OTGiP textbook - everything is written there. bully
                        PS Well, google - once in the 90s they even walked under the table apparently - what is the Mute Law? And what can, but something cannot Skhodnyak and [Thief] Judge ..
                      7. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 2 May 2020 07: 21 New
                        +1
                        About the "Russian Truth", already used at least at the end of the 10th century, you have not heard. About the Judicial Code of Ivan the Third in 1497, they also did not hear.
                        I repeat my question again:
                        So answer me one simple question - how can a country, in this case Canada, be a sovereign country if its citizens and military personnel swear allegiance to the British monarch?
                      8. Zementbomber
                        Zementbomber 5 May 2020 07: 11 New
                        0
                        About the "Russian Truth", already used at least at the end of the 10th century, you have not heard. About the Judicial Code of Ivan the Third in 1497, they also did not hear.

                        Changing shoes in a jump? Do not get a central office.
                        even ancient states, as soon as writing appeared, began to publish their vaults laws prescribing what you can do, what you can’t do, and what penalties violators of the Law must bear.

                        You the difference between "Vaults Laws "and" Russian Truth "and various" Judicial Laws "- to explain? Definitely want to continue to make yourself a laughing stock? wink laughing
                        So answer me one simple question - how can a country, in this case Canada, be a sovereign country if its citizens and military personnel swear allegiance to the British monarch?

                        Read my answer again:
                        I advise you to read The Oath of Citizenship. And to clarify at the same time - how limited a category of citizens of Canada is obliged to accept it.
                        - and get ready more carefully. And - avoid throwing yourself into a virtual fight when you don’t have the same chance, anyway. bully
                      9. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 5 May 2020 07: 19 New
                        0
                        Canada is the same part of Britain as Scotland and Wales. So you write this nonsense, claiming that Canada is a sovereign, independent of Britain state.
                      10. Zementbomber
                        Zementbomber 5 May 2020 07: 35 New
                        0
                        Scotland and Old Wales - have the right to independently conduct diplomatic and foreign trade relations? Conclude international unions? Convert your monetary units on the world currency market (for reference: Old Wales - does not have a national currency at all). Have your own Armed Forces? Declare War (or refuse to declare it, despite entering the state of war by the United Kingdom)? Make peace? The priority of their laws and other regulations and court decisions over resp. British? Do not smoke as many “Amsterdam cigars” anymore! ... laughing And do not rush into a virtual fight without preparation - it's like throwing rifle chains into an attack on the position of easel machine guns with a good supply of ammunition ... laughing
                      11. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 5 May 2020 07: 55 New
                        0
                        Only a fool would argue that Canada is not part of Britain.
                      12. Zementbomber
                        Zementbomber 6 May 2020 12: 57 New
                        0
                        Blah blah blah. I return: you need to be a dvoehchik on a 12-point system to think - and even more so - to declare publicly - that Canada is now part of the UK
  • Nikolai Grek
    Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 16: 01 New
    10
    Quote: Zementbomber
    Canada is also very big.

    this is a colony !!! wink
    Quote: Zementbomber
    Well and yes - that my country "will soon sink into oblivion" - in 2023 it will be 30 years, as I first read the "authoritative opinion".

    Somalia also thinks that they have a country !! wassat lol
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 16: 37 New
      -8
      this is a colony !!! wink

      I understand - that the exam is "something." But what do you - even blocked access to Wikipedia?
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вестминстерский_статут
      Somalia also thinks that they have a country !! wassat lol

      So she is there. And not even one. smile
      1. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 16: 41 New
        +9
        Quote: Zementbomber
        I understand - that the exam is "something."

        I understand that you are a "believer" ... but you need to look at life realistically ... Canada, like some others in a very even considerable amount (including your pseudo-country lol ) are a colony of amers !! request laughing
        Quote: Zementbomber
        So she is there. And not even one.

        Well, here you are the same "monolithic" and "united" state !!! wink wassat
        1. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber April 29 2020 17: 25 New
          -7
          I understand that you are a "believer" ... but you need to look at life realistically ... Canada, like some others in a very considerable amount (including your pseudo-country lol) are a colony of amers !! request laughing

          Yes - I'm in you. You are not victim of the exam. You are a victim of Vladimir Rudolfovich and Co. bully
          Have you ever been to the Dominion Canada? Or maybe you have relatives there? wink smile Or at least listen to the Soviet university course "The Recent History of Europe, the USA and Canada"?
  • Pereira
    Pereira April 29 2020 08: 54 New
    11
    Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??


    Yes, I ask.
    Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
    I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.
    1. Nikolai Grek
      Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 15: 59 New
      +7
      Quote: Pereira
      Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??


      Yes, I ask.
      Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
      I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.

      waiting for the list too ?? !!! recourse laughing
    2. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 16: 16 New
      -6
      OK. "Demand - accept!" (C) laughing
      The Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, the Eastern War, the Second Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, the First Soviet-Afghan War, the Second Soviet-Afghan War, the First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with an “honorable peace and a cordial union”.
      1. smile
        smile April 30 2020 02: 25 New
        0
        Zementbomber
        Hello.
        Oh, let's get in more detail, huh?
        But keep in mind that:
        1. PMV - in the duplicate - a lie - we did not lose it. Can a war be considered lost where you did not lose to the enemy, but to a nominal ally with whom you did not even try to fight?
        2. The second Russo-Japanese - officially, there was no such ... but, with the second Russo-Japanese conflict, we compensated for the really lost first Russo-Japanese war. And they smeared them like Ukrainians smeared drool on the table, hoping for a business and European panuvanne.
        Did you mean it?
        Well, the Japanese have never experienced such a rout on a land theater ... well, we lost so ... weren't we? :)))
        3. The East Anglo-Saxons called the war against the Republic of Ingushetia with Turkey, France and Britain in the middle of the 19th century ... yeah, we recognized ourselves defeated ... The forces were then incomparable ... even in the custody of the population was more than ours then .. .. in fact, we then had a fight with the vezmyrznamy ... real ... the result - they got everywhere, even in the Far East and from St. Petersburg, Turkey completely lost its fleet and suffered losses, as with us - this does not take into account the beaten French and British .. .. go nuts. Britain and storage. about to chop off the Crimea, the Far East and cut us off from the Baltic ... got zilch .... with hundreds of thousands of corpses ... And sho? We, of course, did not feel well ... but they became? :))) If this is not a Pyrrhic victory, then? :))))))
        4. The first Soviet-Afghan - there wasn’t - we then crushed the dissenting Basmachis and supported the consonants. What will you lose? These are not three in a row in the 19th century the completely destroyed occupation corps of the British army, destroyed along with their families. By the population. Without exception. We didn’t smell like that.
        The second - we also did not lose - we just left and threw Najibullah - along with you, by the way. they left - no one physically defeated us - and when we began to leave, even then we controlled large territories. than the Americans now .... who are fleeing from there ... yeah. and your warriors-which are the slaves of the Americans. derived from there?
        5. About the first Chechen one - we won’t talk ... not only didn’t they defeat us - I also participated there .... And then we had ssskkkotttti, not much better than in Kiev mode .. .. but then there was a second .... and we still crushed them ....
        Okay, then .... I really want to hear about the rest of the lost war ... with decoding ... otherwise you use the terminology adopted in Ukrainian modern schools ... coined by scum for oligophrenic seduction .... or rather, in Western historiography, invented for the slaves from eastern Europe ..... let us tell you directly. what kind of coalition war we lost ...... especially I want to hear them against this background. that Ukrainians who did not know that they would be called a nation, being then Russian, actively participated in those wars ..
        I await your reply.
        I'm really looking forward to it.
        1. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber April 30 2020 03: 52 New
          -4
          I await your reply.
          I'm really looking forward to it.

          This is possible - Comrade Mr. Zhdun. laughing
          Further - strictly according to AmB:
          1. PMV - in the duplicate - a lie - we did not lose it. Can a war be considered lost where you did not lose to the enemy, but to a nominal ally with whom you did not even try to fight?

          In our country, Major Hubal also loved to send COV "into the dupes". laughing But - in order not to go into an inappropriate dispute here about the partisan-rebel movement in Poland during WWII - just google the "Brest Peace". It is possible - even according to textbooks of the USSR Ministry of Education. Now - they are also posted on the Web. laughing
          2. The second Russo-Japanese - officially, there was no such ... but, with the second Russo-Japanese conflict, we compensated for the really lost first Russo-Japanese war. And they smeared them like Ukrainians smeared drool on the table, hoping for a business and European panuvanne.
          Did you mean it?
          Well, the Japanese have never experienced such a rout on a land theater ... well, we lost so ... weren't we? :)))

          Officially - there wasn’t. In fact - it was known. 1904-1905 (the first Russian-Japanese - 1806-1807 gg.). As a result, Comrade. the Japanese "nullified" you as the "Third Sea Power of the World." pichal. How it was - you can read in Port Arthur and Tsushima. In the Union - they were published in large numbers (as you have now - I don’t know, I'm sorry). But yes - in 1945 - you partially took revenge. For a while. Short time.
          Well and yes - Donetsk and Lugansk with their environs - Ukraine really lost. As well as France, Alsace-Lorraine in 1871. What was the result of the following - look at the current map of France ... wink
          3. The East Anglo-Saxons called the war against the Republic of Ingushetia with Turkey, France and Britain in the middle of the 19th century ... yeah, we recognized ourselves defeated ... The forces were then incomparable ... even in the custody of the population was more than ours then .. .. in fact, we then had a fight with the vezmyrznamy ... real ... the result - they got everywhere, even in the Far East and from St. Petersburg, Turkey completely lost its fleet and suffered losses, as with us - this does not take into account the beaten French and British .. .. go nuts. Britain and storage. about to chop off the Crimea, the Far East and cut us off from the Baltic ... got zilch .... with hundreds of thousands of corpses ... And sho? We, of course, did not feel well ... but they became? :))) If this is not a Pyrrhic victory, then? :))))))

          “They” did become (good). For - the comrades have achieved their military-political goals.
          Now for the details:
          Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky - you had to tear down nafig.
          Sevastopol: the losses of the defenders — moreover, on fortifications of the fortress type and with superior artillery — were almost equal to the losses of the besiegers and assailants: 47420 people in the latter versus ~ 46 thousand in the former. Epic-win - Nothing! Especially considering that the city had to pass nafig. bully
          4. The first Soviet-Afghan - there wasn’t - we then crushed the dissenting Basmachis and supported the consonants. What will you lose?

          Google:
          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Афганский_поход_Красной_армии_(1929)
          - If desired, on the Web you can find more delivering materials about the First Soviet-Afghan. If very briefly - as in 1979 - they put the wrong horse. And they were - as in the 1980s - beaten with shame.
          The second - we also did not lose - we just left and threw Najibullah - along with you, by the way. gone - no one physically defeated us

          Except those who forced you leave under the threat of an internal political catastrophe (Vietnam
          - welcomes you!) - and yes - "did not win," Oga. laughing
          5. About the first Chechen one - we won’t talk ... not only didn’t they defeat us, but I also participated there ....

          Og. AND "under the onslaught of individual disparate bandit formations, the federal troops temporarily left the city of Grozny." laughing Do you really hope that no one will remember this? Naive ... Well, one of my friends also passed this war. Senior officer of the CRI Army. Personally, the glorious memory of the late Johar was promoted to the rank. So I’m still familiar with the real picture of that war.
          Okay, then .... I really want to hear about the rest of our lost wars ... with a transcript ...

          A dozen with shame, roar and bang of blown up wars - is not enough for you? Add to the list? Do you want this for sure? laughing
          otherwise you use the terminology accepted in Ukrainian modern schools

          I graduated from high school in 1987. And the first higher - completed in 1994. I have even read the IMCRD (already in Independent Ukraine, ChSH good ).
          QUARCH - YOU - DOWN !! For battle (sales and virtual) - we must prepare better! Much better ...
          1. smile
            smile 1 May 2020 01: 40 New
            +1
            Zementbomber
            Oh hello. :))))
            I did not expect that answer ... but I'm glad that I have gained courage :)))
            I answer ... :)))
            I’ll start with the sad one - you didn’t continue to lie about the lost coalition wars .. you won out .. I understand that you lied, and you understand .... but I would like to continue ... :)))
            And so - you trite ran into something that you were afraid of lying ... :))) apparently ...
            And therefore, you poor one, you decided to give battle where you think your position is a win-win ... yeah, in principle - right - in this position you lie least of all ... :)))))
            Okay - we are discussing that part of your lies that you still tried to defend ...
            So - on the topic of the WWII - you, for some reason, you’re breaching about the insurgent movement of the Poles ... fucking% :))) are you out of your mind? It is an interesting story to discuss the attempts of the wild Poltsi, who are buried under their rule by claps — almost the same as the Germans quickly Germanized the Poles .... but what does the PMV have to do with it? Is this - do you translate the topic or just carry any heresy, trying to get away from the need to answer on the topic? :)))))
            The Brest peace ... annulled by the Bolsheviks in half a year - what does the defeat in the war have to do with it? Where and who recognized the defeat? Bolsheviks? And shaw, right? You. a connoisseur of the "Brest Peace" confirm that the Bolsheviks admitted defeat in the war? Damn, are you not ashamed to be next to you? After all, it’s a shame to be a liar ... or to be an adherent of stupid lies ... is not it? Or is it the norm for you? :)))
            If you confirm, don’t answer anymore - you can just lie simply, but you can lie like skakuas - well - to the skin on yourself, to the pot on your head, to the races out of the blue - to the state when the degenerate begins to despise imbecile ... .for the fact that he belongs to the despised caste of skakuazov ....
            if you are like this - don’t get to me anymore - I don’t argue with degenerates ..... and if not - write, swear at me - we will find a topic for discussion .... :)))
            When we talked about the Russo-Japanese wars, it was you who blurted out that we - lost the second ... yeah - I repeat - in the first they forced us to agree to a peace agreement - in the second - we got rid of them and it was they who asked for peace - don’t you catch the difference? - yes, then they pounced on us - but you, for some reason - blurted out - on the contrary - why? ... yeah ... and then we just passed them ... - again, didn’t we catch the difference? The Japanese gave the Kuril Islands and the captured part of Sakhalin to us just like that ... or did we break them and return ours? :))))
            Vietnam, where the Vietnamese and I broke the Americans with the Vietnamese - is also our defeat? :)))

            Sorry, but your efforts to find our defeat, where they are not, and the inability to find there. where are they - for a long time - they were - they show you - as a very small guy .... I'm still waiting for the tales of the lost coalition wars ... well, it’s interesting that you will bear it ... :))) The truth is the truth: )))
            Bye. miserable.
            1. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber 1 May 2020 19: 47 New
              -1
              Do not take so many substances. bully That is all I can advise. laughing And learn to distinguish ПMV - from WWII. The second Russian-Japanese - from soviet-Japanese wars. And learn the history of Russia - at least from the school textbook - even from the current one - even more defective than the late Soviet textbooks of the series “History of the USSR”. This is about the Brest peace in particular.
              Well and once again the list of your defeats - it’s not difficult for me:
              The Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, the Eastern War, the Second Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, the First Soviet-Afghan War, the Second Soviet-Afghan War, the First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with an “honorable peace and a cordial union”.

              And yes, I have once again clarified by your example why in Ukraine, the EU, the USA, Canada and Israel, your “fighters” of the information front are “mockingly and contemptuously called“ info meat ”.
          2. smile
            smile 1 May 2020 02: 27 New
            +1
            Zementbomber
            So. longitudinal
            1. burning - I here answered the Bulgarian - now I will continue to you -
            there are only two moments of those. what did you agree to discuss - without affecting your lies about some losses in coalition wars ..
            So:
            1. In sha quote "Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky ... Sevastopol - you had to tear down"
            Yes, in Petropavlovsk, in Kamchatka, we were not lucky - having five times less manpower and every twenty-thirty guns — we miserably destroyed two of the European Marines ... the squadron commander shot himself ... apparently out of pity for us, the losers - :))) and you cannot but know% :))) Along the way - this is your peermokh ... apparently, you have all the peermokhs - do you not know if this is not true? :)))
            And yes, OUR Sevastopol fortifications demolished by ten times superior artillery of countries five times superior to us numerically and many times - technically - we, nevertheless, dug up = by agreement - which did not stop us from before completely destroying the Turkish fleet, and killing our enemies more than losing our - Unless, of course, count half a million Turks ... or do you not count them? :)))
            2. Listen ... I thought that even teenagers are embarrassed to refer to pedagogy - but damn, you dissuaded me ... shame ... nothing more - or say, you don’t know how the skakuas fight in pedagogy and the 83 IPSO center
            3. About the first Chechnya - damn .... I did not expect such a lie ... sho you tell me there about senior okhvitsery, personally produced by Dudaev from among the female Chkeria bandiuk? : Fuck ... you only showed your complete illiteracy and considerable stupidity ... :))) Do not write about chicheria - okay? At
            1. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber 1 May 2020 20: 24 New
              -1
              Damn, you don’t even know the tactical number of the IPSO SSO APU Center. Although - this is open information.
              OUR Sevastopol fortifications demolished ten times superior artillery countries five times superior to us in numbers

              And why not immediately 100500 times! wassat Do you even know anything about the Eastern War?
              By losses: according to the official assessment of the Military Ministry of the Russian Empire
              - "the general human loss from military causes in the enemy troops" - was estimated for 1853-1856. in about 250 thousand people.
              Everything else is yours - the same "level." To hold a blow - you do not know how and are completely incapable. Pure mockery.
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt April 29 2020 12: 53 New
    +3
    And let me give you a list of victories of Russia ХLX-XX centuries. I'm afraid that he will be two strands more than yours.
    1. Pereira
      Pereira April 29 2020 12: 59 New
      +3
      According to the logic of this man, Ukrainians lived on another planet and did not take any part in the history of Russia.
      This is not his notion. So everyone thinks. By the way, the collective farm chairman is also inclined to this. Soon he will say that Stalin forced the Belarusians to fight the Hitlerites. And they themselves also lived on another planet.
      1. orionvitt
        orionvitt April 29 2020 13: 02 New
        +4
        Quote: Pereira
        collective farm chairman is also inclined to this

        I said. Quote: "it was not our war." In my opinion, more, he no longer needs to say anything, everything is clear.
      2. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 16: 02 New
        +7
        Quote: Pereira
        According to the logic of this brow

        ragul is a diagnosis !!! request wassat
      3. Zementbomber
        Zementbomber April 29 2020 16: 30 New
        -6
        According to the logic of this man, Ukrainians lived on another planet and did not take any part in the history of Russia.

        I understand that coming up with nonsense and ascribing it to an adversary in a dispute is a standard trick. I was also taught at the Academy. laughing But it only works under strictly defined conditions. So that, plz, show me - where did I at least mention something like
        Ukrainians lived on another planet and took no part in the history of Russia
        Even if we do not count diasporas and individual large personalities, ethnically Ukrainian territories at different times were part of Lithuania, Poland, the Ottoman Empire, Russia / USSR, Austria-Hungary, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary. And in the history of all these countries - Ukrainians took one degree or another of participation. Often - very significant.
        PS I am not a Ukrainian by ethnicity. Well here is not a drop of Ukrainian blood in the family at all. Even a certain Trachtenberg once in his genealogy made a fuss (from which even my grandfather, who had died already in this century, from his father) was fiercely batthertil. laughing But there have been no Ukrainians since my distant ancestors received the estate in Volyn in 1596.
        1. lBEARl
          lBEARl April 29 2020 17: 38 New
          +2
          You were asked:
          Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.

          You answered:
          The Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, the Eastern War, the Second Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, the First Soviet-Afghan War, the Second Soviet-Afghan War, the First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with an “honorable peace and a cordial union”.
          .
          Therefore, your indignation in the substitution of the subject of dispute and sophistry is completely inappropriate. Therefore, we are still waiting for the full list of wars in which Russia lost, but Ukraine did not lose (as a quasi-state entity, part of the state in which most of the population of Ukraine would live)
          1. Zementbomber
            Zementbomber April 29 2020 17: 55 New
            -5
            Therefore, your indignation in the substitution of the subject of dispute and sophistry is completely inappropriate. Therefore, we are still waiting for the full list of wars in which Russia lost, but Ukraine did not lose (as a quasi-state entity, part of the state in which most of the population of Ukraine would live)

            Do not shoot - due to insufficient preparation of you as an opponent. smile
            I noticed:
            Smiled. laughing That's not least because of such a capricious attitude - and they beat you quasiperiodically.

            A certain comrade objected to this:
            Who is beating us? It is especially interesting to listen about Crimea, how you beat us there! Haha

            I told him:
            You give a complete and with dates list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XIX-XX centuries. ?? wink smile

            Comrade - apparently googled and realized that he was messed up, but - either ambition, or a training manual, or both. And he gave out (in desperation trying to turn the arrows):
            Yes, I ask.
            Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
            I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.

            Then he received a response from me in strict accordance with my original promise:
            OK. "Demand - accept!" (c) laughing
            The Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, the Eastern War, the Second Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, the First Soviet-Afghan War, the Second Soviet-Afghan War, the First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with an “honorable peace and a cordial union”.

            "So it goes." (C)
            PS But the episode of the occupation of Moscow by the Polish-Cossack army - indeed appears in History. wink smile
            1. lBEARl
              lBEARl April 29 2020 18: 11 New
              +1
              Shoot, not shoot - it does not matter. If you answered this question:
              vostok68 (Andrey) Today, 03:30
              15
              Who is beating us? It is especially interesting to listen about Crimea, how you beat us there! Haha
              , then yes - my previous question would not be appropriate.
              But you answered this:
              Pereira (Michael) Today, 08: 54
              +9
              Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??


              Yes, I ask.
              Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
              I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.
              .
              Thus, you simultaneously corresponded with 2 different site visitors.

              Therefore, I don’t know if my preparation is weak or not (I’m not passing an exam here), but at least you do not know how to use the site, and as a maximum you have been somewhat humiliated. .

              And yes, tell me how is yours
              PS But the episode of the occupation of Moscow by the Polish-Cossack army - indeed does appear in History.
              correlates with yours
              they hit you quasiperiodically.
              . Quasiperiodically - is it 1 time in 500 years?
              1. Zementbomber
                Zementbomber April 29 2020 18: 27 New
                -2
                laughing laughing
                You did not read my already posted answer to the question:
                Who is beating us?

                at most you are somewhat humiliated. .

                Well - if exposing an opponent to a frank mockery is a "humiliation" for the exhibitor - then yes, I was "humiliated." laughing
                And yes, tell me how is yours
                PS But the episode of the occupation of Moscow by the Polish-Cossack army - indeed does appear in History.

                correlates with yours
                they hit you quasiperiodically.

                . Quasiperiodically - is it 1 time in 500 years?

                One more time:
                The Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, the Eastern War, the Second Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, the First Soviet-Afghan War, the Second Soviet-Afghan War, the First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with an “honorable peace and a cordial union”.

                Dates of these "joyful" events "- google yourself - or should this be suggested? bully
                PS I don’t understand the insistent desire to "rush into hostility against tanks" ...
              2. lBEARl
                lBEARl April 29 2020 19: 04 New
                +2
                Of you, a very bad sophist.

                You corresponded with two visitors: the first (vostok68 (Andrey) asked a question:
                Who is beating us? It is especially interesting to listen about Crimea, how you beat us there! Haha

                The second one (Pereira (Mikhail) specified it, taking into account your answer to the first question:
                Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??


                Yes, I ask.
                Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
                I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.

                You answered the clarified question asked by the second visitor (To whom and to which message you answer you can see the arrow below the message):
                OK. "Demand - accept!" (c) laughing
                The Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, the Eastern War, the Second Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, the First Soviet-Afghan War, the Second Soviet-Afghan War, the First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with an “honorable peace and a cordial union”.
                - this answer could approach the original question, but not the clarified one
                You did not have a satisfactory answer to the clarified question, since in all the wars you listed, Ukraine took part in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, and you drove away some sort of blizzard about the loss of Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR in the wars of the 18-20 centuries. (apparently RI and the USSR were losing, but proud Ukraine remained on the sidelines).

                All these your attempts to evade the answer (to give an answer to another question - sophistry in its purest form) look very sorry against the background of your first message:
                Smiled. laughing That's not least because of such a capricious attitude - and they beat you quasiperiodically.
                since they beat not "You" (Russia), but US (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.) periodically. but of all the major conflicts (except for WWII), the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR (and with them Russia, Ukraine, Belarus) emerged victorious.
                Or are you a supporter of the concept: all the nations included in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR defeated, and only Russia lost? However, I will not be surprised that you are also committed to the position that Ukraine, as a separate state, made a decisive (before the other peoples of the USSR) contribution to the victory over the Reich, since the advancing troops included 1,2,3,4 Ukrainian fronts, consisting of Ukrainians?
              3. Zementbomber
                Zementbomber April 29 2020 22: 23 New
                -3
                Of you, a very bad sophist.

                That is yes. For that simple reason. that I generally despise sophistry. laughing
                You corresponded with two visitors: the first (vostok68 (Andrey) asked a question:
                Who is beating us? It is especially interesting to listen about Crimea, how you beat us there! Haha

                The second one (Pereira (Mikhail) specified it, taking into account your answer to the first question:
                Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??

                Yes, I ask.
                Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
                I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.

                You answered the clarified question asked by the second visitor (To whom and to which message you answer you can see the arrow below the message):
                OK. "Demand - accept!" (c) laughing
                The Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, the Eastern War, the Second Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, the First Soviet-Afghan War, the Second Soviet-Afghan War, the First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with an “honorable peace and a cordial union”.

                - This answer could come up to the original question, but not to the clarified one.

                Yes - I noticed of course the desperate doomed attempt of the screwed up ignoramus to "change shoes in a jump" by moving arrows. laughing And he put them to the general laughing stock with his list. Everything is simple. Comrades just had to learn the materiel before getting involved in a "virtual battle."
                they beat not "You" (Russia), but US (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.) periodically. but of all the major conflicts (except for WWII), the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR (and with them Russia, Ukraine, Belarus) emerged victorious.

                Um ... CSC, Indians, Pakistanis and Burmese-Myanmar -so not believe that the Imperial Army "beat them." They believe that the Imperial Army beat the British with other Scots and Welsh. Although the participation of their corps and divisions with other brigades on the side of the Allies in the War for Great East Asia is absolutely not called into question.
                Or are you a supporter of the concept: all the nations included in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR defeated, and only Russia lost? However, I will not be surprised that you are also committed to the position that Ukraine, as a separate state, made a decisive (before the other peoples of the USSR) contribution to the victory over the Reich, since the advancing troops included 1,2,3,4 Ukrainian fronts, consisting of Ukrainians?

                "Do not smack Bullshit; Bullshit - it hurts!" (C) The fact that Ukraine "made a decisive contribution" to the victory over the Reich is the same nonsense as the fact that the RSFSR could have a single-born to win the Great Patriotic War. And the only front of the Red Army, formed on an ethnic basis - was not fully formed (due to the lack of national officer personnel for the 3rd Army of the Polish Army (PKNO)) the Polish Front.
            2. ser15101972
              ser15101972 April 29 2020 19: 47 New
              +1
              "Dear", you think your logic is like a tank! In psychiatry there are a lot of such cases, there is Christ! You are my old friend and you probably don’t hear this in the first one!
            3. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber April 29 2020 21: 59 New
              -1
              Of course not. Not a tank. A - to the tank corps. The infantry against him - by definition, can not withstand. laughing
              PS Yes - not the first time. But - the one who laughs is the last who laughs well. In Congo, 25 years ago - some commanders also considered me a "goof". But the balance of my bank account - especially against the backdrop of the pitiful termination of the career of most of them - does not confirm this, however. laughing
  • Andrey Shibakov
    Andrey Shibakov April 30 2020 21: 48 New
    0
    Doubts take you to study somewhere !? It hurts often, you press it, it ...
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber 1 May 2020 21: 03 New
      0
      Two Soviet secondary, one Soviet-Ukrainian and one Ukrainian - higher (with red dipliks). List and faculties and graduate specialties to name? wink smile
  • Zementbomber
    Zementbomber April 29 2020 16: 17 New
    -3
    Come on, bring it! 1000 victories in wars in just two centuries - it will be cool. I am pleased to read. smile
    1. Alexey P.
      Alexey P. April 30 2020 22: 24 New
      0
      I understand that you are from Ukraine? I’m interested in a couple of questions that I still can’t get an answer to. Can you answer? And the easy questions that Ukraine has created, built outside the USSR and Russia so significant, large-scale, grandiose that one could be proud of for 29 years of "independence"? What have I learned during this time, except to beg forever for handouts, but to fill up the floor of the world with cheap forgive me ... here and guest workers including Russia? By the way, why Ukraine itself does not build its helicopters, airplanes: fighters, attack aircraft, bombers, and so on, because the country needs this, and what is there since the days of the USSR, and it hasn’t bought anything like that from Russia, like Belarus, Kazakhstan? So why don’t you build, not really because the mos ... didn’t build or leave such plants for you, but are you unable to build something and create your own in 30 years?
      1. Zementbomber
        Zementbomber 1 May 2020 21: 13 New
        0
        Own helicopters in Ukraine after 1991 - a three-digit number has already been built.
        Bombers - we do not need in principle.
        And military fighters - have not been done in Ukraine since the time of to WWII. Sturmovikov - similarly.
        Well and yes - the Ukrainian military aircraft fleet is quantitatively greatly redundant. Buying new combat aircraft systems - before the 2030s, it makes no sense. It makes sense to invest in TORiM and TSA.
        And yes - after the collapse of the USSR - Ukraine did not create anything "significantly-large-scale grandiose." As well as all the "new independent states."
        1. KCA
          KCA 2 May 2020 11: 27 New
          0
          Do not tell me the composition of thousands of helicopters built in Ukraine? Not so long ago there was a proud information about the release of one MI-2 helicopter, they managed to reproduce it after 60 years
          1. Zementbomber
            Zementbomber 5 May 2020 06: 44 New
            +1
            "Thousand" is foursignificant number. I talked about threesignificant. Those. - 100 and more. Read vnematfull timeher. bully And google Aerocopter. Or - take a look here: https://ak1-3.com.ua/ru/ - at the moment, according to the company, 102 copies have been delivered. turntables AK-1-3 in 21 states.
            Well, try on the experimental G-3, G-4 and Mi-1 series in the 1940s. And purely experienced cars.
            https://zn.ua/history/ukrainskiy-vertolet-istoriya-dlinoy-v-stoletie-_.html
            PS Mi-2 - in Ukraine have never been produced and are not produced. Uninteresting because. Absolutely. "MS" - makes only their remotorization and varying degrees of depth of modernization. Including - and under its own brand (MSB-2).
            1. KCA
              KCA 5 May 2020 07: 32 New
              0
              Well, there is something to be proud of, you make flying mopeds with Subaru engines, the modification of MI-2 to MI-2MS, of course, makes in the transport version of MI-8/17/171 as a child, in the shock version it makes MI-28NM and KA-52 pilots cry . About 200 helicopters are assembled annually in Russia, the lightest - Ansat, 7-9 passengers, 1300 kg in the cockpit, cruising speed of 250 km / h, they completely lose AK1-3 in all respects
            2. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber 6 May 2020 13: 03 New
              +1
              ChSKH, you own - and strongly promoted - program for the production of "Russian" flying mopeds "- had to be stopped due to the complete lack of competitiveness of these. Although it was made from" bison "- Milevtsi.
              Well and yes - in addition to SME-2, it is done with us and SME-8.
              And all right - the production of turntables in Russia - is falling. Even seven years ago - they were collected from you a year and a half, about times as many.
            3. KCA
              KCA 6 May 2020 14: 13 New
              0
              Our flying mopeds were developed only by small offices unknown to anyone, they focused on imported components, from seats to engines with rotors, it didn’t fly - the problems of shareholders and investors are the harder things for reputable companies - it flies and leaves for export, " Ansat "is quite popular, the civil MI-38 with luxury saloon was first shipped to the customer
            4. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber 6 May 2020 16: 11 New
              +1
              Our flying mopeds were developed only by small offices unknown to anyone, they focused on imported components, from seats to engines with rotors, it didn’t fly - the problems of shareholders and investors are the harder things that reputable companies do - it flies and leaves for export,

              Og. The fate of the Mi-34 and PLV - in this regard, is more than indicative. tongue
            5. KCA
              KCA 6 May 2020 16: 27 New
              0
              What does it have to do with MI-34, the USSR’s development, the first flight in 1986, MI-14 is generally shaggy in the 70s, work is underway to create a new one based on MI-14, but Klimov needs to make a marine version of the engine for them, and they so the work on my ears, about the Mi-34 I don’t know at what stage, I think that only diesel should be put on it, otherwise no one needs it, but again, it’s not
            6. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber 7 May 2020 21: 06 New
              +1
              What more Mi-14 ?? belay PLV is the "Prospective Light Helicopter"! He has a relation to PLO a little less than none.
  • Nikolai Grek
    Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 15: 58 New
    +7
    Quote: Zementbomber
    Bring you complete

    what, the list is lost until the computer went ?? wassat lol
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 16: 41 New
      -4
      what, the list is lost until the computer went ?? wassat lol

      "Chukchi is not a reader - is a Chukchi writer?" (C) laughing See above on today's branch (29.04) my post at 16:16 Moscow time.
      1. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 21: 14 New
        +5
        Quote: Zementbomber
        what, the list is lost until the computer went ?? wassat lol

        "Chukchi is not a reader - is a Chukchi writer?" (C) laughing See above on today's branch (29.04) my post at 16:16 Moscow time.

        even taking into account the ragul interpretation of history, there is no list there !!! wassat laughing
        1. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber April 29 2020 21: 51 New
          -1
          And you hope that I will not repeat this list specifically for the lazy? Naive... bully
          The Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, the Eastern War, the Second Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, the First Soviet-Afghan War, the Second Soviet-Afghan War, the First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with an “honorable peace and a cordial union”.
          1. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek April 30 2020 00: 02 New
            +4
            Quote: Zementbomber
            And you hope that I will not repeat this list specifically for the lazy? Naive... bully
            The Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, the Eastern War, the Second Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, the First Soviet-Afghan War, the Second Soviet-Afghan War, the First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with an “honorable peace and a cordial union”.
            I say ragul !!! wassat and infa for Raguli !! lol the list is at least an A4 sheet filled out on both sides !! laughing
            1. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber April 30 2020 00: 07 New
              -2
              Well - I understand that you merged. laughing Expected quite. laughing
  • Old major
    Old major April 29 2020 19: 30 New
    +3
    Please list, Mr. Ukrainian ...
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 22: 25 New
      -1
      Half-half-Russian actually. smile
      But you can also (for the 101st time) list, yes:
      The Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, the Eastern War, the Second Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, the First Soviet-Afghan War, the Second Soviet-Afghan War, the First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with an “honorable peace and a cordial union”.
  • Kasym
    Kasym April 29 2020 05: 07 New
    18
    A country with 66% of the borrowed money from the budget cannot afford it. This year, Kiev needs to pay more than 50 billion euros of external debt and more than 70 billion domestic. Ukraine faces default, and the authorities want to fight all.
    So these are only the dreams of Ukrainian generals. In the best cases, creditors cram their b / y. hi
    1. Kasym
      Kasym April 29 2020 05: 43 New
      11
      Sorry, I made a mistake. This year, over 5 billion euros are external and 7 billion are internal for paying off debts. hi
      1. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 16: 04 New
        +9
        Quote: Kasym
        Sorry, I made a mistake. This year, over 5 billion euros are external and 7 billion are internal for paying off debts. hi

        more interesting is that the "aerospace Khokhloderava" has come to the purchase of Pakistani aircraft !!! wink laughing
  • Pereira
    Pereira April 29 2020 08: 50 New
    +4
    About haters this is not for me. Here you missed. I am spread rot on this site just for skepticism.
    But as for the non-brothers, I have no doubt.
  • Nikolai Grek
    Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 15: 55 New
    +6
    Quote: Zementbomber
    and beat you quasiperiodically.

    forgot to write that brave raguls do this !!! wassat laughing
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 17: 32 New
      -3
      And the "Raguli" - also sometimes succeeded. wink Although of course - not all “raguli” are “brave”. "raguli" - they are all sorts. Like the Russians. Like everyone else. Peoples, consisting of 146% of "patented heroes" - are not known to military-historical science. Even in the unique in this regard, the Japanese Imperial Army - even then there was a certain% who wanted to lay down their arms.
      1. ser15101972
        ser15101972 April 29 2020 20: 08 New
        +1
        Abram Moiseevich, but can you still say for Ukraine? Is it an advanced country or what?
        -
        Fimochka, I beg you! It is not just advanced - it overtakes time itself! Listen here: they haven’t managed to deliver nuclear waste to Ukraine yet, and half of the country are already mutants!
        1. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber April 29 2020 22: 31 New
          -1
          Well, Shaw can advise here - except how to read at least this:
          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Проекция_(психология)
          - to start... laughing
  • Mikhail Ezhikov
    Mikhail Ezhikov April 29 2020 19: 29 New
    +3
    What freak do you smoke? ))) At the moment, all our enemies feed worms! I look bored with you here in your Canada! And what brings you here? But I hope you understand that to us your opinion as if to raise us!)))
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 22: 49 New
      -1
      I did it for the lulz. laughing
      Now - essentially:
      Enemies (well, and worms too - yes) - do they even know about this?
      Or again [almost] immortal [almost] eternal:
      We have already won - it’s just not so noticeable yet. And you can live with hallucinogenic squid.
  • Alexey P.
    Alexey P. April 30 2020 22: 10 New
    +1
    The ratio of victories and losses in the wars of Russia and the enemy do not want to know? And write to me the victories of Ukraine in the wars when it was outside Russia and the USSR? Have you knocked out at least one enemy from your own land? And you were owned by all who could wish for this, and for centuries. Only in the 20th century who did not march around Kiev, the Austro-Hungarians and Germans in the 1918m, the Poles in the 1920s, the Germans and their allies in the 1941s, and the Russians always knocked them out. Over the 17th century, you were changed owners at least 5 times, in the end, Kiev was bought by Russia from the Pole under the Eternal Peace agreement in 1686, and under the agreement it will forever come under Moscow’s rule, Poland no longer claims for it. So whom did you defeat and drive out of your own land? Something I see the new owner you have replaced the previous one, that’s the whole story. And now they have left Russia and have come under new masters from across the ocean.
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber 1 May 2020 21: 38 New
      -1
      The ratio of victories and losses in the wars of Russia and the enemy do not want to know?

      Well, why "do not want to"? Go ahead - read it out - I will read it with interest. wink smile
      And write to me the victories of Ukraine in the wars when it was outside Russia and the USSR?

      Yes, at least the Soviet-Ukrainian war of 1917-1918. wink
      Only in the 20th century who did not march around Kiev, the Austro-Hungarians and Germans in the 1918m, the Poles in the 1920s, the Germans and their allies in the 1941s, and the Russians always knocked them out.

      Well, let's put the Austro-Hungarians and Germans in 1919 - no one knocked out of Kiev. Neither the UNR Army, nor the Red Army, nor the Ukrainian Soviet Army had Silenok. The Germans then left. Calm, leisurely and with the arrangement. smile
      Well and yes - Moscow was also taken more than once or twice in its history. AND??
      I look at the new owner you have replaced the previous one, that's the whole story. And now they have left Russia and have come under new masters from across the ocean.

      Countries that at least theoretically afford "not "lies" under another country "- there are only two in the World now: the United States and China. And they cannot even oppose the Will of the World Elites (when this Will is consensus). In Ukraine, they look more soberly at things than you do (although you must pay tribute to your leadership - "in its circle" it assesses the real possibilities of the Russian Federation as a whole is sensible; and it understands in which cases the greyhound is very contraindicated - although for the "people who hawl" - of course, a different picture is presented).
  • alone
    alone April 29 2020 10: 59 New
    +3
    Quote: Pereira
    Do not master. Too complicated technique.

    In fact, the ZhF-17 is stuffed with modern electronics MIG-21 ..
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ April 29 2020 11: 39 New
      0
      Quote: lonely
      In fact, the ZhF-17 is stuffed with modern electronics MIG-21 ..

      Is there any doubt that this is difficult?
      1. alone
        alone April 29 2020 11: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: NEOZ
        Quote: lonely
        In fact, the ZhF-17 is stuffed with modern electronics MIG-21 ..

        Is there any doubt that this is difficult?

        And no one says that piloting a fighter is an easy thing. But ZhF is not such an archisuper fighter to consider it too complicated technology
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ April 29 2020 12: 18 New
          +2
          Quote: lonely
          consider it too complicated technique

          Well, there everything is riddled with irony .....))))))))
  • Sahalinets
    Sahalinets April 28 2020 23: 11 New
    13
    1. There is no money.
    2. Nobody will give them money to buy these boards.
    3. This is a Chinese development and is done in cooperation. And the last one to quarrel with us is not from the hand.
    1. Eugene-Eugene
      April 28 2020 23: 24 New
      12
      So they’ll get around and buy the L-39 from Romania or Bulgaria (what's the difference) ... decommissioned. It will be than to drive the Sharievites across the fields when their leader raises them to a storm.
      1. Zementbomber
        Zementbomber April 29 2020 02: 06 New
        -18
        Eugene - Why do they need us? We and our Albatrosses, which we got from the USSR, don’t know what to do ...
    2. Fregate
      Fregate April 28 2020 23: 30 New
      12
      Well, when we sell equipment to India and Vietnam with which China does not have a very good relationship, no quarrels arise. Why should there? (If it comes to a deal)
      1. Sahalinets
        Sahalinets April 28 2020 23: 45 New
        +2
        Well, we don’t buy military equipment from China! But they have nowhere else to buy military products, an embargo, however! I'm not talking about the fact that fighters are on this, wait a minute, wink !
        1. Sahalinets
          Sahalinets April 28 2020 23: 46 New
          12
          RD-93, our engine is on it!
      2. NEOZ
        NEOZ April 29 2020 11: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: Fregate
        Well, when we sell equipment to India and Vietnam with which China does not have a very good relationship, no quarrels arise. Why should there?

        because our technology does not have an end-user certificate (or rather, it can be any),
        and RD93 has it! it is either Pakistan or China ....
    3. Gray brother
      Gray brother April 28 2020 23: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Sahalinets
      1. There is no money.

      Maybe they will sell something. What else do they have left to sell?
      1. Bolo
        Bolo April 29 2020 08: 46 New
        +2
        Ze allowed land to sell, independence, x * le ...
        1. Gray brother
          Gray brother 1 May 2020 16: 48 New
          0
          Quote: Bolo
          Ze allowed the land to sell,

          So it has already been sold for a loan and therefore no longer channels.
      2. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 16: 06 New
        +6
        Quote: Gray Brother
        Quote: Sahalinets
        1. There is no money.

        Maybe they will sell something. What else do they have left to sell?

        kidneys !! wink wassat
    4. The comment was deleted.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 April 28 2020 23: 12 New
    10
    And with what engine they will buy, there the RD-93 stands.
    1. BREAKTHROUGH READY
      BREAKTHROUGH READY April 28 2020 23: 51 New
      -8
      There is a choice of a number of engines that are produced without Russian participation.
      1. Sahalinets
        Sahalinets April 29 2020 00: 57 New
        +5
        And China, Pakistan, under sanctions, they will not sell modern Western engines to them. And never did this pepelats fly with the F404 or Rolls-Royce. This is a virtual offer. The Chinese engine seems to be there, but as usual crude, there are no serial aircraft with it.
      2. Sky strike fighter
        Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 08: 58 New
        +5
        Quote: BREAKTHROUGH READY
        There is a choice of a number of engines that are produced without Russian participation.

        What do you compose on the go? Now they only fly on the RD-93 JF-17. China offered its engines, but Pakistan refused. That's the whole "whole range of engines."
    2. bobba94
      bobba94 April 29 2020 12: 24 New
      +2
      The situation with the engine is interesting. Actually, the Klimovskie RD-93s were originally located, then the Chinese began to produce their own, essno copied. The trick is that the Pakistanis immediately stated that they would buy aircraft from China only with Russian engines.
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 April 29 2020 14: 05 New
        +2
        There is a complicated cooperation. Chinese project, Pakistan assembly, Russian engine. And first, Pakistan bought it through China, and now directly. But are there any export restrictions?
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek April 28 2020 23: 35 New
    +7
    Oddly enough, this is the most affordable offer on the market of real fighters ... only whose turbojet engines will be there?
    1. Normal ok
      Normal ok April 29 2020 02: 47 New
      -5
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Oddly enough, this is the most affordable offer on the market of real fighters ... only whose turbojet engines will be there?

      Adapt that thread from Motor - Sichevskaya line. Or will be released under license.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek April 29 2020 06: 45 New
        0
        They have nothing to adapt for. It is best to buy the L-15 with Ukrainian turbojet engines.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ April 29 2020 11: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          It is best to buy the L-15 with Ukrainian turbojet engines.

          L15 is designed with Yak130 .... when selling this device, coordination with the Russian Federation is necessary.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek April 29 2020 13: 55 New
            +1
            Absolutely not .....
            1. Pavel57
              Pavel57 April 29 2020 14: 07 New
              0
              L-15 clone of the Yak-130 under the forced engine. The rights to the aircraft belong to China.
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek April 29 2020 14: 10 New
                0
                Clone ... and KB Yak legally helped them to develop this pepelats, and the Ukrainians added an afterburner to the turbojet engine ....
    2. urich
      urich April 29 2020 08: 15 New
      +4
      JF-17 is equipped with an RD-93 engine manufactured by the Russian Klimov OJSC. In 2015, the Chinese side proposed replacing Russian engines on Pakistani JF-17s with analogues of its own production, but Pakistan refused, citing the decision with the possible high cost of replacement and the absence of claims to the existing power plant
  • Lara Croft
    Lara Croft April 28 2020 23: 42 New
    -4
    Quote: Pavel57
    And with what engine they will buy, there the RD-93 stands.

    Maybe the "empirialists" want to get RD-93 through the "ancient ukrov" ...?
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek April 29 2020 08: 48 New
      +2
      They got it for a long time in the form of RD33, Mig29 around the world where they were.
  • Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone April 28 2020 23: 44 New
    -15
    To troll Russia, they do not even need this.
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother April 28 2020 23: 58 New
      14
      Quote: Angelo Provolone
      To troll Russia, they do not even need this.

      I agree. It is enough to lay out the word “Crimea” in fat in multimeter letters, only first you have to take a loan from the IMF, otherwise the Poles will not sell fat.
      1. Zementbomber
        Zementbomber April 29 2020 02: 04 New
        -18
        For reference: Poland exports to Ukraine a scanty amount of fat. On an annualized basis, not even 15 thousand tons are worth a few million EUR.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek April 29 2020 08: 49 New
          +2
          For reference. We also export a lot of fat ...
          1. Zementbomber
            Zementbomber 6 May 2020 13: 08 New
            +1
            To "you" - maybe a lot. And the share of imports in the total sales of fat on the Ukrainian market is extremely notgreat.
    2. Nikolai Grek
      Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 16: 09 New
      +6
      Quote: Angelo Provolone
      To troll Russia, they do not even need this.

      they already troll - they ruined their country !! wink wassat Ragul will do anything to troll Russia !!! laughing
  • BREAKTHROUGH READY
    BREAKTHROUGH READY April 28 2020 23: 55 New
    +3
    I doubt that the Chinese will understand, forgive their scam with the purchase of Motors Sich, which means they won’t give discounts / soft loans so that they won’t get divorced again. For the full price, there can be no question of any purchase of airplanes.
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner April 28 2020 23: 59 New
    +2
    "You got on - one shame.
    Arshin will suit you.
    Where is the money, Zin? "(C) laughing
  • Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 April 29 2020 00: 44 New
    +2
    They want to scare Russia? .. well ...
    1. ser15101972
      ser15101972 April 29 2020 20: 29 New
      +1
      I totally agree! For Ukraine, it’s best not to spend money on the army and navy at all, it’s better to spend it on the national economy and it will be useful! There’s nothing from their purchases of weapons, except to fight the civilian population of Donbass!
  • Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 April 29 2020 00: 46 New
    +6
    mainly because of its low cost, the presence of radar with AFAR, the latest guidance systems and electronic warfare, similar to those that are equipped with much more expensive cars, such as the F-16 and Jas 39 Gripen.

    The text is suspiciously reminiscent of extolling "quality" Chinese products ... what
    Pakistan Air Company Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAF) in Kamra

    Ahhhh! With whom has Pakistan recently been driving drafts? Could it be with China? Are their licensed ears sticking out?
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 April 29 2020 08: 49 New
      +2
      Why lately? Since the 60s, under all democratic and military regimes.
      1. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 April 29 2020 10: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Sergej1972
        Since the 60s.,

        Yes? I was not specifically interested in this issue. thank hi .
    2. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 09: 43 New
      +1
      Such data are given on the ability of the JF-17 Thunder to withstand the Indian Su-30MKI.
      The Chinese publication Sina reported that during the Pakistan-India conflict in February of this year, JF-17 found two Indian Su-30MKI fighters at a distance of 110 kilometers and could shoot down with SD-10 missiles, but did not receive a command for this. This is more like an advertisement for military products, because there is nothing to show as evidence. Meanwhile, the JF-17 weapons are designed to hit targets at ranges up to 70 - 100 kilometers.

      https://m.az.sputniknews.ru/expert/20190815/421476719/azerbaijan-pakistan-jf17.html
  • Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 April 29 2020 00: 51 New
    +5
    And where is the money from? PAKISTAN WILL NOT GIVE ANYTHING debt
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 02: 10 New
      -6
      This is precisely the issue to be resolved. Mutual offset of military supplies.
      Columbovo Yaiko is different: what for generally Ukraine JF-17 ??
      1. Sky strike fighter
        Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 09: 47 New
        +3
        And what can Ukraine deliver to Pakistan as you put it, “mutual offset of military supplies?” Ukrainian tanks lost the Pakistani tender to Chinese tanks. What else can Ukraine supply to Pakistan?
        Columbovo Yaiko is different: what for generally Ukraine JF-17 ??

        So the Ukrainian MiG-29, Su-27 are already 35-40 years old. They need to be changed for something. For something that can afford.
        1. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber April 29 2020 16: 54 New
          -1
          Extreme MiG-29 and Su-27 - entered the territory of the Ukrainian SSR in 1991. The term of the calendar service of their gliders is now 40 years. And perhaps it will be extended. Further consider the term of exhaustion of the resource yourself. Of course, it will be necessary to change them some time, but the JF-17 by that time will be junk even by the standards of undemanding South Asia.
          What to put in the framework of "mutual offset"? MTB and their technologies and tank guns and their technologies for example - including the 140-mm KBA-096 of the next generation) for example. Well and - T-80UD - no "Pakistani tender" not "lost". 320 pieces were delivered to their IRP Army and the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.
      2. NEOZ
        NEOZ April 29 2020 11: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: Zementbomber
        Columbovo Yaiko is different: what for generally Ukraine JF-17 ??

        and what are the alternatives?
        Is supertoucano better?
        1. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber April 29 2020 17: 01 New
          -1
          "infernal maize" laughing - we need a maximum of 15 pcs. for the 1st ae 203rd submarine KNUVS them. Air Marshal Ivan Kozhedub.
          The new tactical fighters - before about 2030, were of interest to Ukraine only in the framework of military assistance. It makes no sense to buy them. Nothing. His in the ranks and in storage - more than enough. Therefore, it is much more expedient to spend funds on the u-b / p, TORiM cash fleet and the purchase of new TSA.
      3. Chaldon48
        Chaldon48 April 30 2020 17: 29 New
        0
        Well, ukogo Ukraine buys decides USA
        1. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber 1 May 2020 21: 43 New
          0
          Tell it to suppliers. laughing They will have fun! laughing laughing
  • kit88
    kit88 April 29 2020 00: 53 New
    10
    "To make it clear what is at stake: JF-17 is a modernization of the Chinese J-7, which, in turn, was a clone of the legendary Russian MiG-21"
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 02: 12 New
      -9
      No. JF-17 and J-7 are technically completely different cars. Although one tactical niche, yes.
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek April 29 2020 08: 50 New
      0
      This is a new development with Pakistan. There are none in China.
      1. alone
        alone April 29 2020 11: 06 New
        0
        Quote: Zaurbek
        There are none in China.

        There are only 4 units there .. For what is unknown ..
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 12: 15 New
          0
          China is developing a JF-17 Block 3 fighter for Pakistan, Pakistan is producing it at home. Like many other weapons. They have this system in the flow.
          The first and the best - because even one new radar will provide tracking of 15 air targets at the same time and simultaneously “capture” 4 targets - means that the JF-17 Block 3 is not worse in capabilities than the Russian Su-30MKI, Su-35S, MiG -35, Indian "Tejas Mk.2", as well as the French "Rafal".


          Azerbaijan well understands that Pakistan is our reliable bridge for military-technical cooperation with China.

          It is no secret that Pakistan is China’s closest ally in the region, which benefits from strong Islamabad as a reliable counterbalance to the influence of India. And finally, the presence of its own nuclear weapons gives Pakistan a special status in Asia, because besides it, only India and China have it in this region. All this has already turned Islamabad into one of the political centers of Asia and the Middle East, which is actively influencing the situation in the region. Naturally, it is very beneficial for Azerbaijan to have such a sincere and reliable ally in the region for mutual relations and the advancement of its interests.

          Representatives of the military-industrial complex of Pakistan have repeatedly stated that they are ready to offer Azerbaijan any Pakistani weapons and military equipment, in any volume and quantity, while ensuring its stable after-sales service. And Pakistani weapons - ballistic and cruise missiles, tanks, planes and much more - are a product primarily of the Chinese military-industrial complex, but with the addition of American, French, and British technologies. That is, we not only with Islamabad, but also with Beijing are getting closer, taking the best.

          https://aze.az/baku-zhdet-postavok-samoj-sovershennoj-versii-istrebitelja-jf-17-block-iii.html
          1. alone
            alone April 29 2020 12: 20 New
            0
            Quote: Sky Strike fighter
            China develops JF-17 Block 3 fighter for Pakistan, Pakistan manufactures it

            Well, that’s understandable .. A Chinese airplane, assembled in Pakistan
            Quote: Sky Strike fighter
            https://aze.az/baku-zhdet-postavok-samoj-sovershennoj-versii-istrebitelja-jf-17-block-iii.html

            This is old news .. Only they are doing it very slowly .. It will take too long to wait for these planes .. That's where we began to consider our proposal by Rosoboroexport regarding the Su-35 and Mig 35 ..
        2. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek April 29 2020 13: 56 New
          0
          The main tests all the same in China passed ..... apparently for this.
          1. alone
            alone April 29 2020 13: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Zaurbek
            The main tests all the same in China passed ..... apparently for this.

            Most likely you are right ... There is no other way to explain it .. Militarily, these 4 units do not play any role for the Chinese Air Force
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek April 29 2020 14: 03 New
              0
              They bet on J10, this is a class higher.
              1. alone
                alone April 29 2020 14: 04 New
                0
                Quote: Zaurbek
                They bet on J10, this is a class higher.

                Well, naturally .. for China JF is yesterday .. Only for export to the Allies
                1. Zaurbek
                  Zaurbek April 29 2020 14: 08 New
                  0
                  I would not say that .... different dimensions and ranges .... China needs to protect the sea and Taiwan. That's the bet on a bunch of J10-J11 ..... but as the world market leader shows, so far F16 .... this is the most popular type size. And the Al31 turbojet among the Chinese is the main one for fighters.
                  1. alone
                    alone April 29 2020 14: 34 New
                    0
                    Quote: Zaurbek
                    I would not say so

                    Most countries organize defense by the size of their appetites))) That is why the emphasis is on f-type fighters 16 ... Not every country has plans for world domination
                    1. Zaurbek
                      Zaurbek April 29 2020 14: 48 New
                      0
                      And nevertheless to someone Grippen, to someone Viper ..... both worthy. And to someone F15 ...
    3. Nikolai Grek
      Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 16: 15 New
      +4
      Quote: kit88
      "To make it clear what is at stake: JF-17 is a modernization of the Chinese J-7, which, in turn, was a clone of the legendary Russian MiG-21"

      vnakuraina "progresses" !!! wink laughing
  • Zementbomber
    Zementbomber April 29 2020 02: 00 New
    -12
    REQUIRED GERMAN BRED !! Real Fritz-Quality !! laughing
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 April 29 2020 05: 47 New
      +8
      I noticed that this is how schoolchildren write by inserting uppercase letters between uppercase letters, are you studying now?
      1. Zementbomber
        Zementbomber April 29 2020 17: 37 New
        -1
        For reference: in the modern written tradition of the Russian language - consciously accepted grammatical distortions are accepted - highlight in capital letters. So you - "puck" in Russian (in my school years, the deuce was so named smile ).
  • lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey April 29 2020 02: 07 New
    +2
    we sell to everyone, they can copy, and then sell to Ukraine - cool, but Kiev will scream - we abandoned the USSR-Russia !!!!!!!!!!!)))))))))))) )))))
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek April 29 2020 08: 53 New
      +2
      We bought a lot of A320 and B737 ..... with the attempts we begin to do SSZH100 and MS21 After 20 years of their flights. It is not as simple as it seems. There is such a thing that the fuselage is a device for the flight of a turbojet engine .....
  • Russian Bear_2
    Russian Bear_2 April 29 2020 04: 56 New
    +6
    The owner will not allow you to buy, as this is partly a Chinese plane.
  • Eug
    Eug April 29 2020 06: 24 New
    0
    I understand that this is a radically modernized MiG-21. The problem with him in Ukraine is finance, I don’t see technology. In the presence of MiG-29 repair technology (Lviv ARZ) Su-27 (Zaporozhye) and engines for them (Lutsk), it is most likely to be assembled in Odessa (Yugaviaremservis). The net purchase option is quite simple (not financially, of course), but I think that nevertheless we are considering a large-site assembly with some participation in the production of components. For AFAR and electronic warfare - repair at the level of replacement of blocks. And the plane is “ideologically” very correct, if you make the LMPS - it is in this niche that you can get a little bit (tons per three take-off weights) heavier taking into account twin-engine engines. I think that the inhabitants of Odessa will be able to offer a financial scheme in which all participants will be satisfied and in which, of course, there will be no hint of bribery. After all, defense spending is a sacred affair.
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 17: 07 New
      -1
      There is no Yugaviaremservice in Odessa. There is a state-owned Odessa Aviation Plant state concern Ukroboronprom.
  • APASUS
    APASUS April 29 2020 08: 06 New
    +5
    It is interesting to read how the former Soviet republic wants to buy planes from Pakistan. Here's the news so the news
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 April 29 2020 08: 58 New
      +5
      On credit from the Chinese for 10-12 years, of course wink .

      In general, this is a perfectly balanced and cheap aircraft. The engine is a weak spot (F-16 and Grippen are given it by resource and service). But on the other hand, Ukraine already has its service infrastructure and a large pool of engines of different residual resources.

      For more than 30 to get a glass cabin, AFAR, data exchange systems, a bunch of compatible weapons is quite tempting. Partially, you can save on percussion devices (due to the cast iron and NARs that already exist), you can probably make friends with the R-77 and Artem's products with the board. Save a little on training ground personnel.

      As a result, 14-16 cars with simulators, training, the most necessary weapons (all kinds of guided bombs / missiles) and other things will come out in 600-700mln. The Chinese will give 500, the budget will scratch 100-200.

      For comparison, the normal F-16s for Slovakia are newly built with AFAR - 14 cars for $ 1,8 billion. They are just moving from the MiGs. 22 pilots and 150 technicians training in the USA, simulators, spare parts, a full set of weapons (Pollock, 120C, various Zhdamy, etc. for the transition from Soviet types), a service center and 2 years warranty.
      1. NEOZ
        NEOZ April 29 2020 12: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: donavi49
        it’s a perfectly balanced and cheap plane.

        what is the balance?
        Quote: donavi49

        For more than 30 to get a glass cabin, AFAR, data exchange systems, a bunch of compatible weapons is quite tempting.

        such aircraft can only be fought with Moldova or Bulgaria ...
        ps
        Supkrukano looks much more attractive!
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 April 29 2020 12: 20 New
          +1
          Well, I wrote. Single engine with normal stuffing, like modern aircraft. For countries with the past, you can still save on weapons / training. For it will be a soft transition. And not like from MiGs to F-16s in Slovakia, where 14 planes flew almost $ 2 billion.
          1. NEOZ
            NEOZ April 29 2020 12: 27 New
            0
            Quote: donavi49
            Well, I wrote. Single engine with normal minced meat

            This is stuffed MiG21 !!!!! 3rd generation plane !!!!
            1. donavi49
              donavi49 April 29 2020 12: 30 New
              +1
              He is the same MiG-21 as the F-16 - MiG-21. Also single-engine, single-engine, light laughing .
              1. NEOZ
                NEOZ April 29 2020 12: 51 New
                0
                Quote: donavi49
                He is the same MiG-21 as the F-16 - MiG-21

                FC-1 (ZhF17tander) was developed on the basis of a descendant of the Soviet MiG-21 manufactured in China.
                they even have similar characteristics (mig21bis)
                1. donavi49
                  donavi49 April 29 2020 13: 17 New
                  +1
                  Well this is written in the murders.

                  He does not even look like. The wing is completely mine. The fuselage too.


                  However, what makes a modern airplane a modern airplane today?
                  The range of weapons and modules used (EW / TsU / surveillance container, etc.) = FC-1 has huge compatibility with all types. Even two RCC / lung CR has.


                  Modern detection tools. And there is a full nose fairing of a decent diameter, where you can shove different radars. And this is a critical drawback of the MiG-21 - where a serious radar has nowhere to shove, only ultra-compact.
                  Modern avionics, personal information field for the pilot. Here, too, on Block2, even elements of the 5th generation have already begun to be introduced in the cabin. On Block3, they already screwed on a wide HUD of advanced parameters, as on the 5th generation + a new saw was added to the helmet. Added all these real-time data transfers, interaction with UAVs, etc.
                  1. NEOZ
                    NEOZ April 29 2020 16: 20 New
                    0
                    Quote: donavi49
                    Well this is written in the murders.

                    the numbers do not lie.
                  2. Cympak
                    Cympak April 29 2020 19: 36 New
                    0

                    Simulator JF-17 in DCS
            2. Pavel57
              Pavel57 April 29 2020 14: 12 New
              0
              This is not the MiG-21. Although, I admit that the Mikoyanites had a hand in it.
      2. Sky strike fighter
        Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 12: 18 New
        +1
        you can probably make friends with the R-77 and Artem products with the board.

        Did P-27 mean? P-77 is not produced in Ukraine.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 April 29 2020 12: 29 New
          +1
          R-77 were but they were already disposed of by sale.

          Well, yes, the existing R-73 / R-27 can be made friends with Thunder.
          1. Sky strike fighter
            Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 12: 35 New
            +1
            And what about the RD-93 engine, how to be standing on the JF-17 Block 3? Does Motor Sich have an analogue or are planning to buy with the Chinese engine, but is it necessary to integrate it on the plane too?
            1. donavi49
              donavi49 April 29 2020 13: 23 New
              +1
              Well, this is also solvable. Moreover, I will not be surprised if the RD-93 is sold under the Ukrainian contract, even without any schemes, directly. Russia is a generous soul wink .

              So far, this is a group of tourists - they are spending money on inspecting equipment for the prospective updating of the Ukrainian Air Force. However, JF-17 if you remove the factor of living F-16 knee from lobbyists and politicians, it is a real purchase. For China, by tradition, will give a loan of 80 +% of the body at a small percentage. And the volume itself will be quite lifting for the money. That is, you can collect 12 combat and 2 sparks for 600-700 million with equipment, simulators, training, weapons. Whereas the F-16 a similar package rolls over for 1,5 billion, and even how the Slovaks fly under 2 billion. This is unrealistic even on credit.
          2. Pavel57
            Pavel57 April 29 2020 14: 14 New
            +1
            R-27 - yes, but the rocket is already out of date. R-73 in Ukraine was not manufactured. There was a project of a similar rocket, but did not go beyond exhibitions.
            1. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber April 29 2020 17: 16 New
              -1
              R-27 - the rocket is outdated

              "Already a nyak!" smile Especially - if you support the set of GOS for her "at the proper ideological and artistic level." wink
              1. Pavel57
                Pavel57 April 29 2020 18: 49 New
                0
                "Already a nyak!" Especially - if you support the set of GOS for her "at the proper ideological and artistic level."
                So this is one of the most difficult tasks - the creation of modern heads, their development and testing.
                Especially the ARGS, which was not under the R-27.
                1. Zementbomber
                  Zementbomber 1 May 2020 21: 48 New
                  +1
                  So who is arguing?
                  But the competences in the GOS IC and radio correction systems - in Ukraine have been preserved since the time of the USSR / USSR. ARL GSN - in the "zero", too, minded. True, the rocket under which it was developed was recognized by the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense as unnecessary.
                  1. Pavel57
                    Pavel57 2 May 2020 13: 07 New
                    +1
                    Heat heads in Ukraine were the best in the USSR.
                    1. Zementbomber
                      Zementbomber 5 May 2020 06: 22 New
                      +1
                      I don’t know how “the best in the USSR” (he was still young smile ) - but our (Ukrainian) IC GOS for MANPADS, capable of working on transonic and supersonic targets - EMNIS, and now the only thing such a product in the world. good Although many years have passed since its first demonstration ...
    2. Nikolai Grek
      Nikolai Grek April 29 2020 16: 27 New
      +5
      Quote: APASUS
      It is interesting to read how the former Soviet republic wants to buy planes from Pakistan. Here's the news so the news

      this is called progress in Ukrainian !!! wink living in parallel reality is not for you khukh-mukhra !!! wassat laughing
  • svp67
    svp67 April 29 2020 09: 17 New
    +1
    Urya, ZDOBULI !!! "Own" "light battle lithak" ...
  • Jarserge
    Jarserge April 29 2020 10: 23 New
    +1
    Another achievement .....
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Jarserge
    Jarserge April 29 2020 13: 50 New
    +1
    Naive, who will allow Ukraine to buy non-American? Where is the profit to the owner in such difficult times ?! Especially Chinese from competitors ??? It’s just that the guys mean that they “chose, chose” and “chose the best”, and at the same time, they got “aired” at the state expense.
    1. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber April 29 2020 17: 19 New
      -1
      Suddenly - USA is far not in first place in the supply of weapons and military equipment, missiles and ammunition to Ukraine.
      1. Jarserge
        Jarserge April 29 2020 18: 00 New
        0
        This is what you think .... Other countries supply, mainly NATO. Give permission and receive each batch rollback. And something seems to be going to Ukraine and passing by ... to Syria, etc. etc. . On the territory of Ukraine without Americans and "dogs do not bark"
        1. Zementbomber
          Zementbomber 1 May 2020 21: 51 New
          0
          I do not think". I - I know the real picture. wink smile
          And she is very different from porn fantasies in RuNet ...
          1. Jarserge
            Jarserge 2 May 2020 08: 41 New
            0
            I do not know what you “know” or it seems to you that you know. Moreover, there is no sense in “shining” with awareness. As the saying goes "time will judge us." Interesting things come up in connection with the Ukrainian investigation into the explosions in the warehouses of artillery armaments. And ask why the Americans put in Ukraine, the Jewels were suddenly taken to Poland for storage.
            1. Zementbomber
              Zementbomber 5 May 2020 06: 50 New
              +1
              Simply put - you still have nothing to object to. bully It remains only to desperately doomed to try once again to disseminate the “Old” of Russian info bins about the “export” of Ukrainian “Javelins” to Poland. ”The shameful discharge has been counted - I am writing another victory on my account. good
              1. Jarserge
                Jarserge 5 May 2020 08: 03 New
                0
                Drain? !! So you read your farmer’s mass media of fraud more carefully, the information from them, the lion’s people sometimes don’t understand what they are writing about. Then, apparently, a shout from the embassy of the owners followed and the “sinks” did not receive the proper distribution. And on the Yavoriv landfill there were only models for the natives laughing
                1. Zementbomber
                  Zementbomber 6 May 2020 12: 52 New
                  +1
                  The fact of the matter is that, due to professional duties and professional interest, I follow, including and for info-bins - and not only yours. laughing And the wrong side of their work, too. And I myself know how to do it of course (among my Teachers of the Great Art of InfoWar - there were still legendary Kulik and Kushnaryov in the circles of experts). And he also taught and trained one of the “prims” among military journalist-traders who specialize in ukrtem (google “Diana Mikhailova”). laughing .
                  1. Jarserge
                    Jarserge 6 May 2020 15: 50 New
                    0
                    I have enough of my professional duties to keep an eye on the “talkers” and nonsense. No beautiful words. Ukraine smeared in shit on the resale of weapons nowhere else. Probably the SBU made a "discharge", having actually recognized that the warehouses in Balakliya, etc. etc. blew up "sweeping tracks." Recent information from the same SBU that military personnel from one of the units (from the combat zone) decided to sell weapons and ammunition outside the country. Burned in Tripoli IL -76 You do not have enough? Or the Ukrainian transport plane accidentally detained by Moldova, coming from the Czech Republic, while changing documents from weapons to oil equipment and changing course to the Middle East? It’s clear that this is not Kuchma with “chain mail”; here, in the matter, the masters of Ukraine therefore have practically no “train”. Such talkers as you will unscrew their heads immediately. There is such a port, Oktyabrsky, widely known in narrow circles, from Soviet times. In the days of the USSR, it was from there to the countries that embarked on the path of building socialism that the volley fire combines were sent. It is interesting to observe now the vessels that are loaded there, how and where they are sent. It is easier to grind in language ... yes with such teachers.
                    1. Zementbomber
                      Zementbomber 6 May 2020 16: 33 New
                      +1
                      I have a discovery for you: the arms business - from without blood, dirt and crime - does not happen by definition. If you want not to get tired, you’ll suck your paw like the Havel’s CSFR. So the “pollution indicator is within the normal range”.
                      Well and yes - the Oktyabrsky port point - has long been known far not only "in narrow circles."
                      And what “talkers say" depends on the entire fee. At fairly high prices - what in France is called "revolving journalism" - it is quite a place to be.
                      PS I'm still waiting for some kind of at least a little significant evidence that the Ukrainian "java" - transferred "for storage" to Poland. No, I understand perfectly that you don’t have any (these confirmations) - but let it be considered that I’m still waiting. laughing
  • Hippo
    Hippo April 29 2020 13: 54 New
    0
    Would Russia buy Tejas for self-defense?
    With a license for the engine ...
    1. Pavel57
      Pavel57 April 29 2020 14: 31 New
      0
      Hypothetically JF-17 vs Su35. Oddly enough, over a long distance the odds are approximately equal.
    2. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 15: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: Hippopotamus
      Would Russia buy Tejas for self-defense?
      With a license for the engine ...

      Why? There is a Mig-35 with AFAR Zhuk-AM (as an option), but the Russian Defense Ministry saves here by buying a Mig-35 with a slot radar. And you still want to buy Tejas with an American engine. Besides, Tejas costs more than F -35. In general, absurdity.
  • Cympak
    Cympak April 29 2020 15: 18 New
    0
    JF-17 is a very sophisticated aircraft in avionics and weapons. In terms of performance characteristics, it is of course inferior to the MiG-29 and F-16C, but with the right tactics of conducting air combat and long-range active missiles V-V, this drawback is leveled. By the way, anyone can compare the JF-17 in business with the MiG-29, Su-27, MiG-21, F-15C, F-16C, F-18C, Mirage-2000C and other planes in DCS Wold, there is a monthly free access to almost to all modules. There you will understand avionics or maneuverability in modern aerial combat. And in terms of actions on ground targets, the JF-17 is one of the coolest aircraft in the DCS Wold due to the wide range of precision weapons. Note JF-17 can be installed under the OpenBetta version of DCS World
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer April 29 2020 17: 58 New
    0
    The author contradicts himself. AFAR and the latest electronic warfare systems, by definition, cannot be cheap. Considering the current state of the Banderland economy, the maximum that they will “pull” is the Brazilian “toucans” generally taking radar and electronic warfare.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 April 29 2020 18: 47 New
    0
    For Ukraine, it is optimal to purchase car kits for assembling L-15 for your engine.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 April 29 2020 18: 57 New
    0
    Quote: donavi49
    R-77 were but they were already disposed of by sale.
    .


    I wonder which country became the proud owner of a non-serial missile R-77?
  • Old major
    Old major April 29 2020 19: 42 New
    0
    Most likely from Ukraine it’s just the appearance of activity.
    Everything is simple - together with airplanes and retraining of pilots and IAS, Ukraine will have to fully purchase all means of destruction (on the JF-17 UR and NAR its own, the old Soviet ones do not fit the word at all), purchase all means of ground operation, special equipment, etc. d. In general, it is very expensive. Considering that one JF-17BIII costs about $ 30 million, how many planes need to be purchased in order to at least somehow meet the criteria for combat stability, this contract will pull about $ 4-4,5 billion.
    Where does this poverty come from?
  • Ovsigovets
    Ovsigovets April 29 2020 23: 45 New
    +1
    not even China)))) and Pakistan China
  • Zhevlonenko
    Zhevlonenko April 30 2020 14: 24 New
    0
    The aviation of Ukraine is waiting for the fate of the Ukrainian fleet, they will buy somewhere used "corn farmers" and will give out for the next change.