Ukraine is interested in purchasing JF-17 Block III

Ukrainian Air Force delegation led by the commander aviation Colonel General Sergey Drozdov visited Pakistan’s Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAF) in Kamra on March 6 this year, initiating speculation that Kiev is considering buying military aircraft manufactured here.

This visit is much more than just posing in front of the camera. AFU are trying to urgently replace the MiG-29 and Su-27 with an average experience of 30 years, inherited from the former Soviet Union, which are too old for major modernization

- said an anonymous interlocutor from Ukrainian industry to the Indian edition of Defense World.

According to this media, we are talking about the JF-17 Block III fighter, the first flight of which took place in January 2020. PAF uploaded photographs depicting the Ukrainian military on the background of aircraft under construction, similar to the JF-17.

According to Defense World, the JF-17 Block III attracts attention from potential buyers mainly due to its low cost, the presence of radar with AFAR, the latest guidance systems and electronic warfare, similar to those that are equipped with much more expensive cars, such as F- 16 and Jas 39 Gripen.

For the price it’s at least not the F-35, which the former Minister of Defense of the Independent Stepan Poltorak promised to show in the sky.

Comments

[Pereira]

Do not master. Too complicated technique.

[Zementbomber]

He smiled. That's not least because of such a capricious attitude - and they beat you quasiperiodically.

[vostok68]

Who is beating us? It is especially interesting to listen about Crimea, how you beat us there! Haha

[Zementbomber]

Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??

[Graz]

man, how is our country the largest in the world by territory, if everyone hits it?
your country never had independence, and never won anything because it never existed and it will soon sink into oblivion again under the weight of bankruptcy, escape of the population, historical and linguistic internal problems

[Zementbomber]

Canada is also very big. Having east of the Ural ridge until the end of the XIX century. the most serious of the opponents - the Siberian Khanate almost half a century before that - was expanding quite easily.
Well, yes - that my country "will soon sink into oblivion" - in 2023 it will be 30 years since I first read the "authoritative opinion". "How long is it" soon "... (C) I have already managed to turn gray a little since then.

[Kot_Kuzya]

It’s immediately obvious that you don’t know the story, but it is not surprising, because you are famous for your ignorance and darkness. Russia in the east coexisted with the Kazan Khanate, which was a large and powerful state.
And Canada is actually a British territory, like Australia, New Zealand, the Falklands, the Bahamas and a bunch of territories all over the planet.

[Zementbomber]

Victim of the exam ?? Kazan Khanate - This is the Volga region. Middle Volga to be exact. And Canada is a sovereign state under the purely nominal authority of the English Crown.
Google
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вестминстерский_статут

[Kot_Kuzya]

Again, you demonstrate your complete ignorance. Kazan and Moscow are located at the same latitude. So if you go from Moscow strictly east, you will not pass Kazan. As for Canada, this is British territory, this is the monarchy, the head of Canada is the British monarch, his interests are represented by the Governor General, who has the broadest powers and is the commander in chief of the Canadian Armed Forces. When accepting Canadian citizenship, the future Canadian citizen swears allegiance to the British monarch, the Canadian military, swears allegiance to the British monarch.

[Zementbomber]

Kazan and Moscow are located at the same latitude. So if you go from Moscow strictly east, you will not pass Kazan.

Og. Now let's see what I wrote:

Having east of Ural ridge until the end of the XIX century. the most serious of the opponents - the Siberian Khanate almost half a century before that - was expanding quite easily.

From Kazan to the western foot of the Ural ridge, it is necessary to cut several hundred miles to the East. So "sit down Little Johnny - deuce again!"
Now about the Governor General of Canada:

Despite the fact that the Monarch of the United Kingdom is also the Monarch of Canada, Her Majesty’s Government does not have the right to advise [the candidate] of the Governor General or interfere in the internal, as well as external affairs of Canada, since the Dominion Canada is an independent, sovereign state . This status of Canada is recognized by the Westminster Statute of 1931.

А real the powers of the Governor General of Canada are currently almost exclusively representative and ceremonial. Although abstract-legal - part of the real power, he can still take on himself under certain conditions. But this extreme one has yet happened already in 1925.
In short - you "again have a deuce!"

[Kot_Kuzya]

Write nonsense again. British monarch appoints governor-general; Canadian prime minister can only give advice to the monarch the candidacy of the governor-general, but the final decision remains with the monarch. The Governor-General has the broadest powers: he is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Canada, has the right to remove federal ministers, deputies, judges and even the Prime Minister of Canada himself, has the right to dissolve the Parliament of Canada and call new elections. That is, in fact, the Governor-General of Canada has the powers of the head of the Russian region. To argue that Canada is an independent and sovereign country is as foolish as to argue that Tatarstan, Chechnya or Yakutia are independent states. For the sake of interest, read the Constitutions of the Republics of Russia, they also say that "Yakutia is a sovereign state with its own Constitution." Although everyone understands perfectly well that Yakutia is not at all a sovereign state.

Article 1

1. The Republic of Sakha (Yakutia) is a democratic state based on the right of the people to self-determination.

2. The Republic of Sakha (Yakutia) has its own territory, population, Constitution and legislation, a system of public authorities, as well as state symbols and state languages.

[Zementbomber]

How everything is up and running.
To begin with, the Monarch of Canada (the title of British Crown in Canada) has the right to appoint the Governor General only on the recommendation of the Prime Minister of Canada. The Premier's recommendation may be rejected by the Queen, but to appoint a person not recommended by the Premier "over the head" of the Premier - for this position she not has rights.
The Supreme Commander of Canadian Forces is the Queen. But - only nominal. The strategic leadership of the Armed Forces - is carried out by the Council of Canadian Forces, chaired by the Chief of Staff of the Defense of Canada. Administrative - Minister of National Defense.
The Governor-General has the right to dissolve the House of Commons only on the recommendation of the Prime Minister or if the House rejects a candidate who has been given the mandate to form the Cabinet. In this case, a mandate can only be given to a deputy of the chamber.
The Governor-General has no right to remove the Prime Minister and even more so the federal Ministers through the head of the Prime Minister and the House. Remove deputies without their request for resignation or decision acc. Chambers on deprivation of a deputy’s authority - has no right all the more.
Members of the Supreme Court - appointed by the Governor General only on the recommendation of the Prime Minister. The remaining judges are appointed by the Federal Government, Provinces, etc., without even the nominal participation of the Governor General.
Well, and "the cherry in the cake": in Anglo-Saxon law there is a concept of "sleeping [expired, but formally continuing to exist] powers." Not a single Governor General has, for example, rejected a single Canadian Law in the past 150 years.
And yes - without the advice of the Prime Minister - the Monarch is not empowered to decide on the appointment of the Governor-General. Therefore, even if one does not take into account the tradition (which plays no less a role in Anglo-Saxon practice than the written norms) - a candidate for the role of Governor-General, unacceptable to the Prime Minister, cannot be appointed. It's about the "last word".
Well, declare that:

To say that Canada is an independent and sovereign country is just as stupid as to say that Tatarstan, Chechnya or Yakutia are independent states.

- This is just ZAKATNOY Brad.
Generally - "sit down again - deuce again!"

[Kot_Kuzya]

This is you talking nonsense. It is clear that you do not know Russian. The recommendation is not binding. Canadian law does not prohibit the monarch from resigning the prime minister, federal ministers or judges, or dissolving the Canadian Parliament. And since a Canadian citizen swears allegiance to the British monarch, just as a Canadian soldier swears allegiance to the British monarch, they are obliged to comply with the instructions, laws and orders of the British monarch, and not the prime minister of Canada. By the way, do you even know that Britain has no Constitution, and the British monarch is essentially unlimited in its actions?

[Zementbomber]

OMG, what nonsense again!

The recommendation is not binding.

In that sense. that it can be rejected - yes. But the appointment of the Governor General bypassing the recommendation is impossible.

Canadian law does not prohibit the monarch from resigning the prime minister, federal ministers or judges, or dissolving the Canadian Parliament.

For reference: there is such a concept. as "positive legalization". Those. - some action can be performed - only if it is expressly permitted or prescribed by the Law. The powers of government representatives in democratic rule-of-law states are precisely in the sphere of "positive legalizations". The rule - "everything is permitted that is not prohibited by the Law" - this is exclusively a privilege private citizen (or non-ordinary - but only in the case when he acts as an ordinary citizen).
Well, I advise you to read The Oath of Citizenship. And to clarify at the same time - how limited a category of citizens of Canada is obliged to accept it.

By the way, do you even know that Britain has no Constitution, and the British monarch is essentially unlimited in its actions?

I am aware that this nonsense has circulation in modern Russia. What constitutions - there are notwritten? - no, not heard. Corps of Charter and Organic Laws? - similarly. The role of custom, precedent and judgment in Anglo-Saxon constitutional law? - Yes, how do we know? Victims of the exam, Mlyn ...

[Kot_Kuzya]

Nonsense is your "That the Constitution - there are unwritten ones." The law, including the Constitution, will only work if they are written. How can the Law be unwritten? The Unwritten Law is a custom, they can be interpreted this way and that, often in their own favor, as for example, they interpret their unwritten laws are convicts, and, moreover, they are always interpreted in their favor. It is not for nothing that the ancient states, as soon as writing appeared, began to publish their own codes of laws, prescribing what can be done, what cannot be done, and what punishments should be borne by violators of the Law. In fact, the British monarchy is absolute, but liberal historians, writers and journalists like to tell us about some kind of "constitutional British monarchy", but at the same time they either really do not know or deliberately keep silent about the fact that Britain does not have a Constitution.
So answer me one simple question - how can a country, in this case Canada, be a sovereign country if its citizens and military personnel swear allegiance to the British monarch?

[Zementbomber]

Do you know how much centuries It has passed from the moment the legislation appeared in Russia until the first Arch The laws of the Russian Empire, known as the "Speransky Code"?
Well, yes - school textbooks of geography ("Great Britain: formally - a monarchy, in fact - a parliamentary republic" (c)) and the World History of the Brezhnev era - were written by "liberals", the rotten stump is clear, the tree wants four times a day.

The law, including the Constitution, will only work if they are written. How can the law be unwritten?

Read the OTGiP textbook - everything is written there.
PS Well, google - once in the 90s they even walked under the table apparently - what is the Mute Law? And what can, but something cannot Skhodnyak and [Thief] Judge ..

[Kot_Kuzya]

You have not heard about "Russian Pravda", which was used at least at the end of the 10th century. About the Code of Law of Ivan III in 1497, too, did not hear.
I repeat my question again:
So answer me one simple question - how can a country, in this case Canada, be a sovereign country if its citizens and military personnel swear allegiance to the British monarch?

[Zementbomber]

You have not heard about "Russian Pravda", which was used at least at the end of the 10th century. About the Code of Law of Ivan III in 1497, too, did not hear.

Changing shoes in a jump? Do not get a central office.

even ancient states, as soon as writing appeared, began to publish their vaults laws prescribing what you can do, what you can’t do, and what penalties violators of the Law must bear.

The difference between "Vaults Laws "and" Russkaya Pravda "and various" Code of Laws "- to explain? Do you want to continue to expose yourself to ridicule?

So answer me one simple question - how can a country, in this case Canada, be a sovereign country if its citizens and military personnel swear allegiance to the British monarch?

Read my answer again:

I advise you to read The Oath of Citizenship. And to clarify at the same time - how limited a category of citizens of Canada is obliged to accept it.

- and get ready more carefully. And - avoid throwing yourself into a virtual fight when you don’t have the same chance, anyway.

[Kot_Kuzya]

Canada is the same part of Britain as Scotland and Wales. So you write this nonsense, claiming that Canada is a sovereign, independent of Britain state.

[Zementbomber]

Scotland and Old Wales - have the right to independently conduct diplomatic and foreign trade relations? Conclude international alliances? Convert your own monetary units on the world currency market (for reference: Old Wales does not have a national monetary unit at all). Have your own Armed Forces? Declaring War (or refusing to declare War despite the UK entering a state of war)? Make peace? Have priority of their laws and other regulations and court decisions over the corresponding. British? Don't smoke that many "Amsterdam cigars" anymore! ... And do not rush into a virtual fight without preparation - it's like throwing rifle chains into an attack on the position of easel machine guns with a good supply of ammunition ...

[Kot_Kuzya]

Only a fool would argue that Canada is not part of Britain.

[Zementbomber]

Blah blah blah. I return: you need to be a dvoehchik on a 12-point system to think - and even more so - to declare publicly - that Canada is now part of the UK

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Zementbomber

Canada is also very big.

this is a colony !!!

Quote: Zementbomber

Well, yes - that my country "will soon sink into oblivion" - in 2023 it will be 30 years since I first read the "authoritative opinion".

Somalia also thinks that they have a country !!

[Zementbomber]

this is a colony !!! wink

I understand - that the exam is "something". But what are you even blocked from access to Wikipedia?
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вестминстерский_статут

Somalia also thinks that they have a country !! wassat lol

So she is there. And not even one.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Zementbomber

I understand - that the exam is "something".

I understand that you are a "believer" ... but you have to look at life realistically ... Canada, like some others in a very large number (including your pseudo-country ) are a colony of amers !!

Quote: Zementbomber

So she is there. And not even one.

Well, here you are the same "monolithic" and "cohesive" state !!!

[Zementbomber]

I understand that you are a "believer" ... but you have to look at life realistically ... Canada, like some others in a very large number (including your pseudo-country lol) are a colony of amers !! request laughing

Yes - I'm in you. You are not victim of the exam. You are a victim of Vladimir Rudolfovich and Co.
Have you ever been to the Dominion Canada? Or maybe you have relatives there? Or at least you have listened to the Soviet university course "Contemporary History of Europe, the USA and Canada"?

[Pereira]

Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??

Yes, I ask.
Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Pereira

Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??

Yes, I ask.
Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.

waiting for the list too ?? !!!

[Zementbomber]

OK. "They demand - we will accept!" (C)
Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, Eastern War, Second Russo-Japanese War, First World War, Polish-Soviet War, First Soviet-Afghan War, Second Soviet-Afghan War, First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with "honorable peace and heartfelt union."

[smile]

Zementbomber
Hello.
Oh, let's get in more detail, huh?
But keep in mind that:
1. PMV - in the duplicate - a lie - we did not lose it. Can a war be considered lost where you did not lose to the enemy, but to a nominal ally with whom you did not even try to fight?
2. The second Russo-Japanese - officially, there was no such ... but, with the second Russo-Japanese conflict, we compensated for the really lost first Russo-Japanese war. And they smeared them like Ukrainians smeared drool on the table, hoping for a business and European panuvanne.
Did you mean it?
Well, the Japanese have never experienced such a rout on a land theater ... well, we lost so ... weren't we? :)))
3. The East Anglo-Saxons called the war against the Republic of Ingushetia with Turkey, France and Britain in the middle of the 19th century ... yeah, we recognized ourselves defeated ... The forces were then incomparable ... even in the custody of the population was more than ours then .. .. in fact, we then had a fight with the vezmyrznamy ... real ... the result - they got everywhere, even in the Far East and from St. Petersburg, Turkey completely lost its fleet and suffered losses, as with us - this does not take into account the beaten French and British .. .. go nuts. Britain and storage. about to chop off the Crimea, the Far East and cut us off from the Baltic ... got zilch .... with hundreds of thousands of corpses ... And sho? We, of course, did not feel well ... but they became? :))) If this is not a Pyrrhic victory, then? :))))))
4. The first Soviet-Afghan - there wasn’t - we then crushed the dissenting Basmachis and supported the consonants. What will you lose? These are not three in a row in the 19th century the completely destroyed occupation corps of the British army, destroyed along with their families. By the population. Without exception. We didn’t smell like that.
The second - we also did not lose - we just left and threw Najibullah - along with you, by the way. they left - no one physically defeated us - and when we began to leave, even then we controlled large territories. than the Americans now .... who are fleeing from there ... yeah. and your warriors-which are the slaves of the Americans. derived from there?
5. About the first Chechen one - we won’t talk ... not only didn’t they defeat us - I also participated there .... And then we had ssskkkotttti, not much better than in Kiev mode .. .. but then there was a second .... and we still crushed them ....
Okay, then .... I really want to hear about the rest of the lost war ... with decoding ... otherwise you use the terminology adopted in Ukrainian modern schools ... coined by scum for oligophrenic seduction .... or rather, in Western historiography, invented for the slaves from eastern Europe ..... let us tell you directly. what kind of coalition war we lost ...... especially I want to hear them against this background. that Ukrainians who did not know that they would be called a nation, being then Russian, actively participated in those wars ..
I await your reply.
I'm really looking forward to it.

[Zementbomber]

I await your reply.
I'm really looking forward to it.

This is possible - Comrade Mr. Zhdun.
Further - strictly according to AmB:

1. PMV - in the duplicate - a lie - we did not lose it. Can a war be considered lost where you did not lose to the enemy, but to a nominal ally with whom you did not even try to fight?

In our country, Major Hubal also liked to send KOV to the Dupu. But - in order not to get into an inappropriate dispute here over the partisan-insurrectionary movement in Poland during WWII - just google "Peace of Brest". It is possible - even according to the textbooks of the USSR Ministry of Education. Now - they are also posted on the Web.

2. The second Russo-Japanese - officially, there was no such ... but, with the second Russo-Japanese conflict, we compensated for the really lost first Russo-Japanese war. And they smeared them like Ukrainians smeared drool on the table, hoping for a business and European panuvanne.
Did you mean it?
Well, the Japanese have never experienced such a rout on a land theater ... well, we lost so ... weren't we? :)))

Officially - obviously it was not. In fact, it certainly was. 1904-1905 (the first Russian-Japanese - 1806-1807). As a result, Comrade. the Japanese have "slightly" zeroed you out as "the third Maritime Power of the World". PITCHAL. How it was - you can read in "Port Arthur" and "Tsushima". In the Soviet Union - they were published in multi-editions (as you have now - I don't know, sorry). But yes - in 1945 - you partially took revenge. For a while. A little time.
Well and yes - Donetsk and Lugansk with their environs - Ukraine really lost. As well as France, Alsace-Lorraine in 1871. What was the result of the following - look at the current map of France ...

3. The East Anglo-Saxons called the war against the Republic of Ingushetia with Turkey, France and Britain in the middle of the 19th century ... yeah, we recognized ourselves defeated ... The forces were then incomparable ... even in the custody of the population was more than ours then .. .. in fact, we then had a fight with the vezmyrznamy ... real ... the result - they got everywhere, even in the Far East and from St. Petersburg, Turkey completely lost its fleet and suffered losses, as with us - this does not take into account the beaten French and British .. .. go nuts. Britain and storage. about to chop off the Crimea, the Far East and cut us off from the Baltic ... got zilch .... with hundreds of thousands of corpses ... And sho? We, of course, did not feel well ... but they became? :))) If this is not a Pyrrhic victory, then? :))))))

It became "them" (good). For - the comrades have achieved their military and political goals.
Now for the details:
Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky - you had to tear down nafig.
Sevastopol: the losses of the defenders — moreover, on fortifications of the fortress type and with superior artillery — were almost equal to the losses of the besiegers and assailants: 47420 people in the latter versus ~ 46 thousand in the former. Epic-win - Nothing! Especially considering that the city had to pass nafig.

4. The first Soviet-Afghan - there wasn’t - we then crushed the dissenting Basmachis and supported the consonants. What will you lose?

Google:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Афганский_поход_Красной_армии_(1929)
- If desired, on the Web you can find more delivering materials about the First Soviet-Afghan. If very briefly - as in 1979 - they put the wrong horse. And they were - as in the 1980s - beaten with shame.

The second - we also did not lose - we just left and threw Najibullah - along with you, by the way. gone - no one physically defeated us

Except those who forced you leave under the threat of an internal political catastrophe (Vietnam
- welcomes you!) - and yes - "did not win", Oga.

5. About the first Chechen one - we won’t talk ... not only didn’t they defeat us, but I also participated there ....

Og. AND "under the onslaught of separate scattered bandit formations, the federal troops temporarily left Grozny." Do you really hope that no one will remember this? Naive ... Well, one of my friends also passed this war. Senior officer of the CRI Army. Personally, the glorious memory of the late Johar was promoted to the rank. So I’m still familiar with the real picture of that war.

Okay, then .... I really want to hear about the rest of our lost wars ... with a transcript ...

A dozen with shame, roar and bang of blown up wars - is not enough for you? Add to the list? Do you want this for sure?

otherwise you use the terminology accepted in Ukrainian modern schools

I graduated from high school in 1987. And the first higher - completed in 1994. I have even read the IMCRD (already in Independent Ukraine, ChSH ).
QUARCH - YOU - DOWN !! For battle (sales and virtual) - we must prepare better! Much better ...

[smile]

Zementbomber 
Oh hello. :))))
I did not expect that answer ... but I'm glad that I have gained courage :)))
I answer ... :)))
I’ll start with the sad one - you didn’t continue to lie about the lost coalition wars .. you won out .. I understand that you lied, and you understand .... but I would like to continue ... :)))
And so - you trite ran into something that you were afraid of lying ... :))) apparently ...
And therefore, you poor one, you decided to give battle where you think your position is a win-win ... yeah, in principle - right - in this position you lie least of all ... :)))))
Okay - we are discussing that part of your lies that you still tried to defend ...
So - on the topic of the WWII - you, for some reason, you’re breaching about the insurgent movement of the Poles ... fucking% :))) are you out of your mind? It is an interesting story to discuss the attempts of the wild Poltsi, who are buried under their rule by claps — almost the same as the Germans quickly Germanized the Poles .... but what does the PMV have to do with it? Is this - do you translate the topic or just carry any heresy, trying to get away from the need to answer on the topic? :)))))
The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk ... annulled by the Bolsheviks in half a year - what does defeat in the war have to do with it? Where and who admitted defeat? The Bolsheviks? And sho, right? You. connoisseur of the "Brest Peace" confirm that the Bolsheviks admitted defeat in the war? Damn you are not ashamed to be next to you? After all, it's a shame to be a liar ... or to be an adherent of stupid lies ... isn't it? Or is this the norm for you? :)))
If you confirm, don’t answer anymore - you can just lie simply, but you can lie like skakuas - well - to the skin on yourself, to the pot on your head, to the races out of the blue - to the state when the degenerate begins to despise imbecile ... .for the fact that he belongs to the despised caste of skakuazov ....
if you are like this - don’t get to me anymore - I don’t argue with degenerates ..... and if not - write, swear at me - we will find a topic for discussion .... :)))
When we talked about the Russo-Japanese wars, it was you who blurted out that we - lost the second ... yeah - I repeat - in the first they forced us to agree to a peace agreement - in the second - we got rid of them and it was they who asked for peace - don’t you catch the difference? - yes, then they pounced on us - but you, for some reason - blurted out - on the contrary - why? ... yeah ... and then we just passed them ... - again, didn’t we catch the difference? The Japanese gave the Kuril Islands and the captured part of Sakhalin to us just like that ... or did we break them and return ours? :))))
Vietnam, where the Vietnamese and I broke the Americans with the Vietnamese - is also our defeat? :)))

Sorry, but your efforts to find our defeat, where they are not, and the inability to find there. where are they - for a long time - they were - they show you - as a very small guy .... I'm still waiting for the tales of the lost coalition wars ... well, it’s interesting that you will bear it ... :))) The truth is the truth: )))
Bye. miserable.

[Zementbomber]

Do not take so many substances. That is all I can advise. And learn to distinguish ПMV - from WWII. The second Russian-Japanese - from soviet-Japanese Wars. And teach the history of Russia - at least according to a school textbook - at least even according to the current one - even more defective than the late Soviet textbooks of the "History of the USSR" series. This is about the Brest Peace in particular.
Well and once again the list of your defeats - it’s not difficult for me:

Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, Eastern War, Second Russo-Japanese War, First World War, Polish-Soviet War, First Soviet-Afghan War, Second Soviet-Afghan War, First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with "honorable peace and heartfelt union."

And yes, I once again, using your example, understood why in Ukraine, the EU, the USA, Canada and Israel - your "fighters" of the information front "are mockingly and contemptuously called" info-meat ".

[smile]

Zementbomber
So. longitudinal
1. burning - I here answered the Bulgarian - now I will continue to you -
there are only two moments of those. what did you agree to discuss - without affecting your lies about some losses in coalition wars ..
So:
1. In sha the quote "Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky ... Sevastopol - you had to tear off nafig"
Yes, in Petropavlovsk, in Kamchatka, we were not lucky - having five times less manpower and every twenty-thirty guns — we miserably destroyed two of the European Marines ... the squadron commander shot himself ... apparently out of pity for us, the losers - :))) and you cannot but know% :))) Along the way - this is your peermokh ... apparently, you have all the peermokhs - do you not know if this is not true? :)))
And yes, OUR Sevastopol fortifications demolished by ten times superior artillery of countries five times superior to us numerically and many times - technically - we, nevertheless, dug up = by agreement - which did not stop us from before completely destroying the Turkish fleet, and killing our enemies more than losing our - Unless, of course, count half a million Turks ... or do you not count them? :)))
2. Listen ... I thought that even teenagers are embarrassed to refer to pedagogy - but damn, you dissuaded me ... shame ... nothing more - or say, you don’t know how the skakuas fight in pedagogy and the 83 IPSO center
3. About the first Chechnya - damn .... I did not expect such a lie ... sho you tell me there about senior okhvitsery, personally produced by Dudaev from among the female Chkeria bandiuk? : Fuck ... you only showed your complete illiteracy and considerable stupidity ... :))) Do not write about chicheria - okay? At

[Zementbomber]

Damn, you don’t even know the tactical number of the IPSO SSO APU Center. Although - this is open information.

OUR Sevastopol fortifications demolished ten times superior artillery countries five times superior to us in numbers

And why not immediately 100500 times! Do you even know anything about the Eastern War?
By losses: according to the official assessment of the Military Ministry of the Russian Empire
- "the total human loss from military reasons in the enemy troops" - was estimated for 1853-1856. in about 250 thousand people
Everything else is yours - the same "level". To hold a blow - you do not know how and are completely incapable. Pure joke.

[orionvitt]

And let me give you a list of victories of Russia ХLX-XX centuries. I'm afraid that he will be two strands more than yours.

[Pereira]

According to the logic of this man, Ukrainians lived on another planet and did not take any part in the history of Russia.
This is not his notion. So everyone thinks. By the way, the collective farm chairman is also inclined to this. Soon he will say that Stalin forced the Belarusians to fight the Hitlerites. And they themselves also lived on another planet.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Pereira

collective farm chairman is also inclined to this

I said. Quote: "This was not our war." In my opinion, more, he doesn't need to say anything, everything is clear.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Pereira

According to the logic of this brow

ragul is a diagnosis !!!

[Zementbomber]

According to the logic of this man, Ukrainians lived on another planet and did not take any part in the history of Russia.

I understand that coming up with nonsense and ascribing it to an adversary in a dispute is a standard trick. I was also taught at the Academy. But it only works under strictly defined conditions. So that, plz, show me - where did I at least mention something like

Ukrainians lived on another planet and took no part in the history of Russia

Even if we do not count diasporas and individual large personalities, ethnically Ukrainian territories at different times were part of Lithuania, Poland, the Ottoman Empire, Russia / USSR, Austria-Hungary, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary. And in the history of all these countries - Ukrainians took one degree or another of participation. Often - very significant.
PS I am not a Ukrainian by ethnicity. Well here is not a drop of Ukrainian blood in the family at all. Even a certain Trachtenberg once in his genealogy made a fuss (from which even my grandfather, who had died already in this century, from his father) was fiercely batthertil. But there have been no Ukrainians since my distant ancestors received the estate in Volyn in 1596.

[lBEARl]

You were asked:

Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.

You answered:

Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, Eastern War, Second Russo-Japanese War, First World War, Polish-Soviet War, First Soviet-Afghan War, Second Soviet-Afghan War, First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with "honorable peace and heartfelt union."

.
Therefore, your indignation in the substitution of the subject of dispute and sophistry is completely inappropriate. Therefore, we are still waiting for the full list of wars in which Russia lost, but Ukraine did not lose (as a quasi-state entity, part of the state in which most of the population of Ukraine would live)

[Zementbomber]

Therefore, your indignation in the substitution of the subject of dispute and sophistry is completely inappropriate. Therefore, we are still waiting for the full list of wars in which Russia lost, but Ukraine did not lose (as a quasi-state entity, part of the state in which most of the population of Ukraine would live)

Do not shoot - due to insufficient preparation of you as an opponent.
I noticed:

Smiled. laughing That's not least because of such a capricious attitude - and they beat you quasiperiodically.

A certain comrade objected to this:

Who is beating us? It is especially interesting to listen about Crimea, how you beat us there! Haha

I told him:

You give a complete and with dates list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XIX-XX centuries. ?? wink smile

Comrade - apparently googled and realized that he was messed up, but - either ambition, or a training manual, or both. And he gave out (in desperation trying to turn the arrows):

Yes, I ask.
Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.

Then he received a response from me in strict accordance with my original promise:

OK. "They demand - we will accept!" (c) laughing
Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, Eastern War, Second Russo-Japanese War, First World War, Polish-Soviet War, First Soviet-Afghan War, Second Soviet-Afghan War, First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with "honorable peace and heartfelt union."

"So it goes." (C)
PS But the episode of the occupation of Moscow by the Polish-Cossack army - indeed appears in History.

[lBEARl]

Shoot, not shoot - it does not matter. If you answered this question:

vostok68 (Andrey) Today, 03:30
+15
Who is beating us? It is especially interesting to listen about Crimea, how you beat us there! Haha

, then yes - my previous question would not be appropriate.
But you answered this:

Pereira (Michael) Today, 08: 54
+9
Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??


Yes, I ask.
Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.

.
Thus, you simultaneously corresponded with 2 different site visitors.

Therefore, I don’t know if my preparation is weak or not (I’m not passing an exam here), but at least you do not know how to use the site, and as a maximum you have been somewhat humiliated. .

And yes, tell me how is yours

PS But the episode of the occupation of Moscow by the Polish-Cossack army - indeed does appear in History.

correlates with yours

they hit you quasiperiodically.

. Quasiperiodically - is it 1 time in 500 years?

[Zementbomber]

You did not read my already posted answer to the question:

Who is beating us?

at most you are somewhat humiliated. .

Well - if exposing an opponent to outright ridicule is "humiliation" for the one who exposed - then yes, I was "humiliated".

And yes, tell me how is yours

PS But the episode of the occupation of Moscow by the Polish-Cossack army - indeed does appear in History.

correlates with yours

they hit you quasiperiodically.

. Quasiperiodically - is it 1 time in 500 years?

One more time:

Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, Eastern War, Second Russo-Japanese War, First World War, Polish-Soviet War, First Soviet-Afghan War, Second Soviet-Afghan War, First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with "honorable peace and heartfelt union."

Dates of these "happy" events - google yourself - or do you need to prompt?
PS I do not understand the persistent desire to "throw bayonets against tanks" ...

[lBEARl]

Of you, a very bad sophist.

You corresponded with two visitors: the first (vostok68 (Andrey) asked a question:

Who is beating us? It is especially interesting to listen about Crimea, how you beat us there! Haha

The second one (Pereira (Mikhail) specified it, taking into account your answer to the first question:

Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??


Yes, I ask.
Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.

You answered the clarified question asked by the second visitor (To whom and to which message you answer you can see the arrow below the message):

OK. "They demand - we will accept!" (c) laughing
Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, Eastern War, Second Russo-Japanese War, First World War, Polish-Soviet War, First Soviet-Afghan War, Second Soviet-Afghan War, First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with "honorable peace and heartfelt union."

- this answer could approach the original question, but not the clarified one
You did not have a satisfactory answer to the clarified question, since in all the wars you listed, Ukraine took part in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, and you drove away some sort of blizzard about the loss of Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR in the wars of the 18-20 centuries. (apparently RI and the USSR were losing, but proud Ukraine remained on the sidelines).

All these your attempts to evade the answer (to give an answer to another question - sophistry in its purest form) look very sorry against the background of your first message:

Smiled. laughing That's not least because of such a capricious attitude - and they beat you quasiperiodically.

because they beat not "You" (Russia), but US (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.) periodically. but of all the largest conflicts (except for WWI), the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR (and with them Russia, Ukraine, Belarus) emerged victorious.
Or are you a supporter of the concept: all the nations included in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR defeated, and only Russia lost? However, I will not be surprised that you are also committed to the position that Ukraine, as a separate state, made a decisive (before the other peoples of the USSR) contribution to the victory over the Reich, since the advancing troops included 1,2,3,4 Ukrainian fronts, consisting of Ukrainians?

[Zementbomber]

Of you, a very bad sophist.

That is yes. For that simple reason. that I generally despise sophistry.

You corresponded with two visitors: the first (vostok68 (Andrey) asked a question:

Who is beating us? It is especially interesting to listen about Crimea, how you beat us there! Haha

The second one (Pereira (Mikhail) specified it, taking into account your answer to the first question:

Can you give you a complete and date list of wars and armed conflicts lost by the Russian Empire, the Russian Soviet Republic / RSFSR, the USSR and the Russian Federation in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries ??

Yes, I ask.
Give a complete list of wars lost by the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR, in which the great Ukrainian empire did not participate or would emerge victorious.
I think my colleagues will support me in this modest request.

You answered the clarified question asked by the second visitor (To whom and to which message you answer you can see the arrow below the message):

OK. "They demand - we will accept!" (c) laughing
Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, Eastern War, Second Russo-Japanese War, First World War, Polish-Soviet War, First Soviet-Afghan War, Second Soviet-Afghan War, First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with "honorable peace and heartfelt union."

- This answer could come up to the original question, but not to the clarified one.

Yes - I noticed, of course, a desperately doomed attempt by the screwed up ignoramuses to "change their shoes in a jump" by moving the arrows. And he exposed them to everyone's ridicule with his list. It's simple. The comrades just had to learn the materiel before getting involved in the "virtual battle".

they beat not "you" (Russia), but US (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.) periodically. but of all the largest conflicts (except for WWI), the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR (and with them Russia, Ukraine, Belarus) emerged victorious.

Um ... CSC, Indians, Pakistanis and Burmese-Myanmar -so not believe that the Imperial Army "beat them". They believe that the Imperial Army beat the British with other Scots and Welsh. Although the participation of their corps and divisions with other brigades on the side of the Allies in the War for the Great East Asia is absolutely not questioned.

Or are you a supporter of the concept: all the nations included in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR defeated, and only Russia lost? However, I will not be surprised that you are also committed to the position that Ukraine, as a separate state, made a decisive (before the other peoples of the USSR) contribution to the victory over the Reich, since the advancing troops included 1,2,3,4 Ukrainian fronts, consisting of Ukrainians?

"Don't screw up Nonsense; Nonsense - it hurts!" (C) That Ukraine "made a decisive contribution" to the victory over the Reich is the same nonsense, as is the fact that the RSFSR could win the Great Patriotic War with one birthright. And the only front of the Red Army that was formed along ethnic lines was the Polish Front, which was not fully formed (due to the lack of national officers for the 3rd Army of the Polish Army (PKNO)).

[ser15101972]

"Dear", you think your logic is like a tank! In psychiatry, there are many such cases, there is Christ! You are a complete friend and you probably hear this not in the first!

[Zementbomber]

Of course not. Not a tank. A - to the tank corps. The infantry against him - by definition, can not withstand.
PS Yes - not the first time. But - the one who laughs the last one laughs well. In the Congo 25 years ago - some commanders also considered me a "kukukha who went". But the balance of my bank account - especially against the background of the initial retirement of most of them - does not confirm this, however.

[Zementbomber]

Two Soviet secondary, one Soviet-Ukrainian and one Ukrainian - higher (with red dipliks). List and faculties and graduate specialties to name?

[Zementbomber]

Come on, bring it! 1000 victories in wars in just two centuries - it will be cool. I am pleased to read.

[Alexey P.]

I understand that you are from Ukraine? I'm interested in a couple of questions to which I still can't get an answer. Can you answer? And the questions are easy, that Ukraine has created, built outside the USSR and Russia such a significant, large-scale, grandiose what could be proud of for 29 years of "independence"? What did you learn during this time except to beg forever for handouts, and fill up half of the world with cheap, forgive me ... tutki and guest workers, including Russia? By the way, why does Ukraine itself not build its own helicopters, airplanes: fighters, attack aircraft, bombers, etc., because the country needs it, but that it has been available since the times of the USSR, and hasn't bought anything like it from Russia, like Belarus, Kazakhstan? So why don't you build, not because of the fact that mos..kali such factories were not built and left for you, but they themselves are not able to build something and create their own in 30 years, right?

[Zementbomber]

Own helicopters in Ukraine after 1991 - a three-digit number has already been built.
Bombers - we do not need in principle.
And military fighters - have not been done in Ukraine since the time of to WWII. Sturmovikov - similarly.
Well and yes - the Ukrainian military aircraft fleet is quantitatively greatly redundant. Buying new combat aircraft systems - before the 2030s, it makes no sense. It makes sense to invest in TORiM and TSA.
And yes - after the collapse of the USSR - Ukraine did not create anything "significant-scale-grandiose". As well as all "newly independent states".

[KCA]

Do not tell me the composition of thousands of helicopters built in Ukraine? Not so long ago there was a proud information about the release of one MI-2 helicopter, they managed to reproduce it after 60 years

[Zementbomber]

"Thousand" is foursignificant number. I talked about threesignificant. Those. - 100 and more. Read vnematfull timeher. And google "Aerocopter". Or - look here: https://ak1-3.com.ua/ru/ - at the moment, according to the company, 102 copies have been delivered. turntables AK-1-3 in 21 states.
Well, try on the experimental G-3, G-4 and Mi-1 series in the 1940s. And purely experienced cars.
https://zn.ua/history/ukrainskiy-vertolet-istoriya-dlinoy-v-stoletie-_.html
PS Mi-2 - have never been produced in Ukraine and are not being produced. It is not interesting because. Absolutely. "MS" - does only their remotorization and varying degrees of depth of modernization. Incl. - and under its own brand (MSB-2).

[KCA]

Well, there is something to be proud of, you make flying mopeds with Subaru engines, the modification of MI-2 to MI-2MS, of course, makes MI-8/17/171 in the transport version like a child, in shock performance makes the pilots of MI-28NM and KA-52 cry ... About 200 helicopters are assembled in Russia annually, the lightest are Ansat, 7-9 passengers, 1300 kg in the cockpit, cruising speed 250 km / h, they are outright behind AK1-3 in all respects

[Zementbomber]

ChSKh, you had to terminate your own - and highly publicized - program for the production of "Russian" flying mopeds "due to their complete uncompetitiveness.
Well and yes - in addition to SME-2, it is done with us and SME-8.
And all right - the production of turntables in Russia - is falling. Even seven years ago - they were collected from you a year and a half, about times as many.

[KCA]

Our flying mopeds were developed only by small, unknown offices, they were guided by imported components, from seats to engines with rotors, it didn't fly - the problems of shareholders and investors, that's what is heavier, what reputable companies do - it flies and is exported well, " Ansat "is quite popular, the civilian MI-38 with a luxury cabin was first shipped to the customer

[Zementbomber]

Our flying mopeds were developed only by small offices unknown to anyone, they focused on imported components, from seats to engines with rotors, it didn’t fly - the problems of shareholders and investors are the harder things that reputable companies do - it flies and leaves for export,

Og. The fate of the Mi-34 and PLV - in this regard, is more than indicative.

[KCA]

What does it have to do with MI-34, the USSR’s development, the first flight in 1986, MI-14 is generally shaggy in the 70s, work is underway to create a new one based on MI-14, but Klimov needs to make a marine version of the engine for them, and they so the work on my ears, about the Mi-34 I don’t know at what stage, I think that only diesel should be put on it, otherwise no one needs it, but again, it’s not

[Zementbomber]

What more Mi-14 ?? PLV is "Promising Light Helicopter"! He has a little less relation to PLO than nothing.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Zementbomber

Bring you complete

what, the list is lost until the computer went ??

[Zementbomber]

what, the list is lost until the computer went ?? wassat lol

"Chukchi is not a reader - is a Chukchi a writer?" (C) See above on today's branch (29.04) my post at 16:16 Moscow time.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Zementbomber

what, the list is lost until the computer went ?? wassat lol

"Chukchi is not a reader - is a Chukchi a writer?" (C) See above on today's branch (29.04) my post at 16:16 Moscow time.

even taking into account the ragul interpretation of history, there is no list there !!!

[Zementbomber]

And you hope that I will not repeat this list specifically for the lazy? Naive...

Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, Eastern War, Second Russo-Japanese War, First World War, Polish-Soviet War, First Soviet-Afghan War, Second Soviet-Afghan War, First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with "honorable peace and heartfelt union."

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Zementbomber

And you hope that I will not repeat this list specifically for the lazy? Naive...

Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, Eastern War, Second Russo-Japanese War, First World War, Polish-Soviet War, First Soviet-Afghan War, Second Soviet-Afghan War, First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with "honorable peace and heartfelt union."

I say ragul !!! and infa for Raguli !! the list is at least an A4 sheet filled out on both sides !!

[Zementbomber]

Well - I understand that you merged. Expected quite.

[Old major]

Please list, Mr. Ukrainian ...

[Zementbomber]

Half-half-Russian actually.
But you can also (for the 101st time) list, yes:

Wars of the Second, Third and Fourth Coalitions, Eastern War, Second Russo-Japanese War, First World War, Polish-Soviet War, First Soviet-Afghan War, Second Soviet-Afghan War, First Chechen War. In fact, the Russo-British War of 1807-1812 was also lost. - although formally it ended with "honorable peace and heartfelt union."

[Kasym]

A country with 66% of the borrowed money from the budget cannot afford it. This year, Kiev needs to pay more than 50 billion euros of external debt and more than 70 billion domestic. Ukraine faces default, and the authorities want to fight all.
So these are only the dreams of Ukrainian generals. In the best cases, creditors cram their b / y.

[Kasym]

Sorry, I made a mistake. This year, over 5 billion euros are external and 7 billion are internal for paying off debts.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Kasym

Sorry, I made a mistake. This year, over 5 billion euros are external and 7 billion are internal for paying off debts.

more interesting is that the "aerospace hohlogorava" has sunk to the purchase of Pakistani aircraft !!!

[Pereira]

About haters this is not for me. Here you missed. I am spread rot on this site just for skepticism.
But as for the non-brothers, I have no doubt.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Zementbomber

and beat you quasiperiodically.

forgot to write that brave raguls do this !!!

[Zementbomber]

And the "raguli" also sometimes succeeded. Although, of course, not all "raguli" are "brave". "raguli" - they are all sorts. So are the Russians. Like everyone else. The peoples, consisting of 146% of "patented heroes" - are not known to military history science. Even in the unique in this regard, the Japanese Imperial Army - and that was a certain% of those who wanted to lay down their arms.

[ser15101972]

Abram Moiseevich, but can you still say for Ukraine? Is it an advanced country or what?
-
Fimochka, I beg you! It is not just advanced - it overtakes time itself! Listen here: they haven’t managed to deliver nuclear waste to Ukraine yet, and half of the country are already mutants!

[Zementbomber]

Well, Shaw can advise here - except how to read at least this:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Проекция_(психология)
- to start...

[Mikhail Ezhikov]

What freak do you smoke? ))) At the moment, all our enemies feed worms! I look bored with you here in your Canada! And what brings you here? But I hope you understand that to us your opinion as if to raise us!)))

[Zementbomber]

I did it for the lulz.
Now - essentially:
Enemies (well, and worms too - yes) - do they even know about this?
Or again [almost] immortal [almost] eternal:

We have already won - it’s just not so noticeable yet. And you can live with hallucinogenic squid.

[Alexey P.]

Do you want to know the ratio of victories and losses in wars between Russia and the enemy? And sign for me the victory of Ukraine in the wars when she was outside Russia and the USSR? Have you knocked out at least one enemy yourself from your land? And you have been owned by everyone who could wish it, and for centuries. Only in the 20th century who did not march across Kiev, the Austro-Hungarians and the Germans in 1918, the Poles in the 1920s, the Germans and their allies in 1941, and the Russians always knocked them out. During the 17th century, you changed owners at least 5 times, as a result, Kiev was bought by Russia from a Pole under the Eternal Peace treaty of 1686, and under the treaty it will forever pass under the rule of Moscow, Poland no longer claims it. So who did you defeat on your own and expel from your land? Something I see the new owner replaced the previous one, that's the whole story. And even now they left Russia and went under new owners from across the ocean.

[Zementbomber]

The ratio of victories and losses in the wars of Russia and the enemy do not want to know?

Why don't you want to? Go ahead - expound - read with interest.

And write to me the victories of Ukraine in the wars when it was outside Russia and the USSR?

Yes, at least the Soviet-Ukrainian war of 1917-1918.

Only in the 20th century who did not march around Kiev, the Austro-Hungarians and Germans in the 1918m, the Poles in the 1920s, the Germans and their allies in the 1941s, and the Russians always knocked them out.

Well, let's put the Austro-Hungarians and Germans in 1919 - no one knocked out of Kiev. Neither the UNR Army, nor the Red Army, nor the Ukrainian Soviet Army had Silenok. The Germans then left. Calm, leisurely and with the arrangement.
Well and yes - Moscow was also taken more than once or twice in its history. AND??

I look at the new owner you have replaced the previous one, that's the whole story. And now they have left Russia and have come under new masters from across the ocean.

Countries that at least theoretically afford "not "lays down" under another country "- there are only two in the world now: the USA and the PRC. And even they cannot resist the Will of the World Elites (when this Will is consensus). In Ukraine, in this regard, they simply look at things more soberly than you have (although we must pay tribute to your leadership - "in its circle" it assesses the real capabilities of the Russian Federation as a whole sensibly; and perfectly understands in which cases it is strongly contraindicated to greyhound - although for the "people hawking" - of course a different picture is presented).

[alone]

Quote: Pereira

Do not master. Too complicated technique.

In fact, the ZhF-17 is stuffed with modern electronics MIG-21 ..

[NEOZ]

Quote: lonely

In fact, the ZhF-17 is stuffed with modern electronics MIG-21 ..

Is there any doubt that this is difficult?

[alone]

Quote: NEOZ

Quote: lonely

In fact, the ZhF-17 is stuffed with modern electronics MIG-21 ..

Is there any doubt that this is difficult?

And no one says that piloting a fighter is an easy thing. But ZhF is not such an archisuper fighter to consider it too complicated technology

[NEOZ]

Quote: lonely

consider it too complicated technique

Well, there everything is riddled with irony .....))))))))

[Sahalinets]

1. There is no money.
2. Nobody will give them money to buy these boards.
3. This is a Chinese development and is done in cooperation. And the last one to quarrel with us is not from the hand.

[Eugene-Eugene]

So they’ll get around and buy the L-39 from Romania or Bulgaria (what's the difference) ... decommissioned. It will be than to drive the Sharievites across the fields when their leader raises them to a storm.

[Zementbomber]

Eugene - Why do we need them? We and ours, inherited from the USSR, "Albatrosses" - what to do - we do not know ...

[Fregate]

Well, when we sell equipment to India and Vietnam with which China does not have a very good relationship, no quarrels arise. Why should there? (If it comes to a deal)

[Sahalinets]

Well, we don’t buy military equipment from China! But they have nowhere else to buy military products, an embargo, however! I'm not talking about the fact that fighters are on this, wait a minute, !

[Sahalinets]

RD-93, our engine is on it!

[NEOZ]

Quote: Fregate

Well, when we sell equipment to India and Vietnam with which China does not have a very good relationship, no quarrels arise. Why should there?

because our technology does not have an end-user certificate (or rather, it can be any),
and RD93 has it! it is either Pakistan or China ....

[Gray brother]

Quote: Sahalinets

1. There is no money.

Maybe they will sell something. What else do they have left to sell?

[Bolo]

Ze allowed land to sell, independence, x * le ...

[Gray brother]

Quote: Bolo

Ze allowed the land to sell,

So it has already been sold for a loan and therefore no longer channels.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: Sahalinets

1. There is no money.

Maybe they will sell something. What else do they have left to sell?

kidneys !!

[Pavel57]

And with what engine they will buy, there the RD-93 stands.

[BREAKTHROUGH READY]

There is a choice of a number of engines that are produced without Russian participation.

[Sahalinets]

And China, Pakistan, under sanctions, they will not sell modern Western engines to them. And never did this pepelats fly with the F404 or Rolls-Royce. This is a virtual offer. The Chinese engine seems to be there, but as usual crude, there are no serial aircraft with it.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: BREAKTHROUGH READY

There is a choice of a number of engines that are produced without Russian participation.

What do you compose on the fly? There now only RD-93 JF-17 fly. China offered its engines, but Pakistan refused. Here is the whole "whole range of engines."

[bobba94]

The situation with the engine is interesting. Actually, the Klimovskie RD-93s were originally located, then the Chinese began to produce their own, essno copied. The trick is that the Pakistanis immediately stated that they would buy aircraft from China only with Russian engines.

[Pavel57]

There is a complicated cooperation. Chinese project, Pakistan assembly, Russian engine. And first, Pakistan bought it through China, and now directly. But are there any export restrictions?

[Zaurbek]

Oddly enough, this is the most affordable offer on the market of real fighters ... only whose turbojet engines will be there?

[Normal ok]

Quote: Zaurbek

Oddly enough, this is the most affordable offer on the market of real fighters ... only whose turbojet engines will be there?

Adapt that thread from Motor - Sichevskaya line. Or will be released under license.

[Zaurbek]

They have nothing to adapt for. It is best to buy the L-15 with Ukrainian turbojet engines.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Zaurbek

It is best to buy the L-15 with Ukrainian turbojet engines.

L15 is designed with Yak130 .... when selling this device, coordination with the Russian Federation is necessary.

[Zaurbek]

Absolutely not .....

[Pavel57]

L-15 clone of the Yak-130 under the forced engine. The rights to the aircraft belong to China.

[Zaurbek]

Clone ... and KB Yak legally helped them to develop this pepelats, and the Ukrainians added an afterburner to the turbojet engine ....

[urich]

JF-17 is equipped with an RD-93 engine manufactured by the Russian Klimov OJSC. In 2015, the Chinese side proposed replacing Russian engines on Pakistani JF-17s with analogues of its own production, but Pakistan refused, citing the decision with the possible high cost of replacement and the absence of claims to the existing power plant

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Pavel57

And with what engine they will buy, there the RD-93 stands.

Maybe the "empirialists" through the "ancient ukrov" want the RD-93 worth getting ...?

[Zaurbek]

They got it for a long time in the form of RD33, Mig29 around the world where they were.

[Angelo Provolone]

To troll Russia, they do not even need this.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Angelo Provolone

To troll Russia, they do not even need this.

I agree. It is enough to put the word "Crimea" out of the fat in multi-meter letters, but first you have to take a loan from the IMF, otherwise the Poles will not sell the fat.

[Zementbomber]

For reference: Poland exports to Ukraine a scanty amount of fat. On an annualized basis, not even 15 thousand tons are worth a few million EUR.

[Zaurbek]

For reference. We also export a lot of fat ...

[Zementbomber]

To "you" - maybe a lot. And the share of imports in the total sales of lard on the Ukrainian market is extremely notgreat.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Angelo Provolone

To troll Russia, they do not even need this.

they already troll - they ruined their country !! Ragul will do anything to troll Russia !!!

[BREAKTHROUGH READY]

I doubt that the Chinese will understand and forgive their kicks with the purchase of Motors-Sich, which means that they will not give discounts / soft loans, so that they will not be thrown again. For the full cost, there can be no question of any purchase of aircraft from the Square.

[Prisoner]

"You don't care - one shame.
Arshin will suit you.
Where is the money, Zin? "(C)

[Pvi1206]

They want to scare Russia? .. well ...

[ser15101972]

I totally agree! For Ukraine, it’s best not to spend money on the army and navy at all, it’s better to spend it on the national economy and it will be useful! There’s nothing from their purchases of weapons, except to fight the civilian population of Donbass!

[Vasyan1971]

mainly because of its low cost, the presence of radar with AFAR, the latest guidance systems and electronic warfare, similar to those that are equipped with much more expensive cars, such as the F-16 and Jas 39 Gripen.

The text is suspiciously reminiscent of praising "quality" Chinese products ...

Pakistan Air Company Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAF) in Kamra

Ahhhh! With whom has Pakistan recently been driving drafts? Could it be with China? Are their licensed ears sticking out?

[Sergej1972]

Why lately? Since the 60s, under all democratic and military regimes.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Sergej1972

Since the 60s.,

Yes? I was not specifically interested in this issue. thank .

[Sky strike fighter]

Such data are given on the ability of the JF-17 Thunder to withstand the Indian Su-30MKI.

The Chinese publication Sina reported that during the Pakistan-India conflict in February of this year, JF-17 found two Indian Su-30MKI fighters at a distance of 110 kilometers and could shoot down with SD-10 missiles, but did not receive a command for this. This is more like an advertisement for military products, because there is nothing to show as evidence. Meanwhile, the JF-17 weapons are designed to hit targets at ranges up to 70 - 100 kilometers.

https://m.az.sputniknews.ru/expert/20190815/421476719/azerbaijan-pakistan-jf17.html

[Chaldon48]

And where is the money from? PAKISTAN WILL NOT GIVE ANYTHING debt

[Zementbomber]

This is precisely the issue to be resolved. Mutual offset of military supplies.
Columbovo Yaiko is different: what for generally Ukraine JF-17 ??

[Sky strike fighter]

And what can Ukraine supply to Pakistan within the framework of, as you put it, “mutual offset of military supplies?” Ukrainian tanks lost the Pakistani tender to Chinese tanks. What else can Ukraine supply to Pakistan, tell me?

Columbovo Yaiko is different: what for generally Ukraine JF-17 ??

So the Ukrainian MiG-29, Su-27 are already 35-40 years old. They need to be changed for something. For something that can afford.

[Zementbomber]

Extreme MiG-29 and Su-27 - entered the territory of the Ukrainian SSR in 1991. The term of the calendar service of their gliders is now 40 years. And perhaps it will be extended. Further consider the term of exhaustion of the resource yourself. Of course, it will be necessary to change them some time, but the JF-17 by that time will be junk even by the standards of undemanding South Asia.
What to put in the "mutual offset"? MTB and their technologies and tank guns and their technologies for example - including the next generation 140-mm KBA-096) for example. Well, T-80UD - no "Pakistani tender" not "lost". Their Army IRP and the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan were supplied 320 pieces.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Zementbomber

Columbovo Yaiko is different: what for generally Ukraine JF-17 ??

and what are the alternatives?
Is supertoucano better?

[Zementbomber]

"hellish maize" - we need a maximum of 15 pcs. for the 1st ae 203rd submarine KNUVS them. Air Marshal Ivan Kozhedub.
The new tactical fighters - before about 2030, were of interest to Ukraine only in the framework of military assistance. It makes no sense to buy them. Nothing. His in the ranks and in storage - more than enough. Therefore, it is much more expedient to spend funds on the u-b / p, TORiM cash fleet and the purchase of new TSA.

[Chaldon48]

Well, ukogo Ukraine buys decides USA

[Zementbomber]

Tell it to suppliers. They will have fun!

[kit88]

"To make it clear what this is about: the JF-17 is an upgrade of the Chinese J-7, which, in turn, was a clone of the legendary Russian MiG-21."

[Zementbomber]

No. JF-17 and J-7 are technically completely different cars. Although one tactical niche, yes.

[Zaurbek]

This is a new development with Pakistan. There are none in China.

[alone]

Quote: Zaurbek

There are none in China.

There are only 4 units there .. For what is unknown ..

[Sky strike fighter]

China is developing a JF-17 Block 3 fighter for Pakistan, Pakistan is producing it at home. Like many other weapons. They have this system in the flow.

The first and the best - because even one new radar will provide tracking of 15 air targets at the same time and simultaneously “capture” 4 targets - means that the JF-17 Block 3 is not worse in capabilities than the Russian Su-30MKI, Su-35S, MiG -35, Indian "Tejas Mk.2", as well as the French "Rafal".

Azerbaijan well understands that Pakistan is our reliable bridge for military-technical cooperation with China.

It is no secret that Pakistan is China’s closest ally in the region, which benefits from strong Islamabad as a reliable counterbalance to the influence of India. And finally, the presence of its own nuclear weapons gives Pakistan a special status in Asia, because besides it, only India and China have it in this region. All this has already turned Islamabad into one of the political centers of Asia and the Middle East, which is actively influencing the situation in the region. Naturally, it is very beneficial for Azerbaijan to have such a sincere and reliable ally in the region for mutual relations and the advancement of its interests.

Representatives of the military-industrial complex of Pakistan have repeatedly stated that they are ready to offer Azerbaijan any Pakistani weapons and military equipment, in any volume and quantity, while ensuring its stable after-sales service. And Pakistani weapons - ballistic and cruise missiles, tanks, planes and much more - are a product primarily of the Chinese military-industrial complex, but with the addition of American, French, and British technologies. That is, we not only with Islamabad, but also with Beijing are getting closer, taking the best.

https://aze.az/baku-zhdet-postavok-samoj-sovershennoj-versii-istrebitelja-jf-17-block-iii.html

[alone]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

China develops JF-17 Block 3 fighter for Pakistan, Pakistan manufactures it

Well, that’s understandable .. A Chinese airplane, assembled in Pakistan

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

https://aze.az/baku-zhdet-postavok-samoj-sovershennoj-versii-istrebitelja-jf-17-block-iii.html

This is old news .. Only they are doing it very slowly .. It will take too long to wait for these planes .. That's where we began to consider our proposal by Rosoboroexport regarding the Su-35 and Mig 35 ..

[Zaurbek]

The main tests all the same in China passed ..... apparently for this.

[alone]

Quote: Zaurbek

The main tests all the same in China passed ..... apparently for this.

Most likely you are right ... There is no other way to explain it .. Militarily, these 4 units do not play any role for the Chinese Air Force

[Zaurbek]

They bet on J10, this is a class higher.

[alone]

Quote: Zaurbek

They bet on J10, this is a class higher.

Well, naturally .. for China JF is yesterday .. Only for export to the Allies

[Zaurbek]

I would not say that .... different dimensions and ranges .... China needs to protect the sea and Taiwan. That's the bet on a bunch of J10-J11 ..... but as the world market leader shows, so far F16 .... this is the most popular type size. And the Al31 turbojet among the Chinese is the main one for fighters.

[alone]

Quote: Zaurbek

I would not say so

Most countries organize defense by the size of their appetites))) That is why the emphasis is on f-type fighters 16 ... Not every country has plans for world domination

[Zaurbek]

And nevertheless to someone Grippen, to someone Viper ..... both worthy. And to someone F15 ...

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: kit88

"To make it clear what this is about: the JF-17 is an upgrade of the Chinese J-7, which, in turn, was a clone of the legendary Russian MiG-21."

vnakuraina is "progressing" !!!

[Zementbomber]

REQUIRED GERMAN BRED !! Real Fritz-Quality !!

[Pessimist22]

I noticed that this is how schoolchildren write by inserting uppercase letters between uppercase letters, are you studying now?

[Zementbomber]

For reference: in the modern written tradition of the Russian language - it is customary to deliberately allow grammatical distortions - to highlight in capital letters. So you - "puck" in Russian (in my school years, this was the name of the deuce ).

[lvov_aleksey]

we sell to everyone, they can copy, and then sell to Ukraine - cool, but Kiev will scream - we abandoned the USSR-Russia !!!!!!!!!!!)))))))))))) )))))

[Zaurbek]

We bought a lot of A320 and B737 ..... with the attempts we begin to do SSZH100 and MS21 After 20 years of their flights. It is not as simple as it seems. There is such a thing that the fuselage is a device for the flight of a turbojet engine .....

[Russian Bear_2]

The owner will not allow you to buy, as this is partly a Chinese plane.

[Eug]

I understand that this is a radically modernized MiG-21. The problem with him in Ukraine is in finances, I don't see technological ones. The technology for repairing the MiG-29 (Lviv ARZ) Su-27 (Zaporozhye) and engines for them (Lutsk) is available, most likely it is supposed to be assembled in Odessa (Yugaviaremservice). The net buy option is quite simple (not financially, of course), but I think that still a large-scale assembly is being considered with some participation in the production of components. For AFAR and EW - repair at the level of replacement of blocks. And the plane is "ideologically" very correct, if you do the LMFS - then it is in this niche, it is possible a little (three tons of take-off weight) heavier, taking into account the twin engine. I think that Odessans will be able to offer a financial scheme in which all participants will be satisfied and in which, of course, there will be no hint of bribery. After all, spending on defense is sacred.

[Zementbomber]

There is no "Yugaviaremservice" in Odessa. There is the State Enterprise "Odessa Aviation Plant" of the state concern "Ukroboronprom".

[APASUS]

It is interesting to read how the former Soviet republic wants to buy planes from Pakistan. Here's the news so the news

[donavi49]

On credit from the Chinese for 10-12 years, of course .

In general, this is a perfectly balanced and cheap aircraft. The engine is a weak spot (F-16 and Grippen are given it by resource and service). But on the other hand, Ukraine already has its service infrastructure and a large pool of engines of different residual resources.

For more than 30 to get a glass cabin, AFAR, data exchange systems, a bunch of compatible weapons is quite tempting. Partially, you can save on percussion devices (due to the cast iron and NARs that already exist), you can probably make friends with the R-77 and Artem's products with the board. Save a little on training ground personnel.

As a result, 14-16 cars with simulators, training, the most necessary weapons (all kinds of guided bombs / missiles) and other things will come out in 600-700mln. The Chinese will give 500, the budget will scratch 100-200.

For comparison, the normal F-16s for Slovakia are newly built with AFAR - 14 cars for $ 1,8 billion. They are just moving from the MiGs. 22 pilots and 150 technicians training in the USA, simulators, spare parts, a full set of weapons (Pollock, 120C, various Zhdamy, etc. for the transition from Soviet types), a service center and 2 years warranty.

[NEOZ]

Quote: donavi49

it’s a perfectly balanced and cheap plane.

what is the balance?

Quote: donavi49

For more than 30 to get a glass cabin, AFAR, data exchange systems, a bunch of compatible weapons is quite tempting.

such aircraft can only be fought with Moldova or Bulgaria ...
ps
Supkrukano looks much more attractive!

[donavi49]

Well, I wrote. Single engine with normal stuffing, like modern aircraft. For countries with the past, you can still save on weapons / training. For it will be a soft transition. And not like from MiGs to F-16s in Slovakia, where 14 planes flew almost $ 2 billion.

[NEOZ]

Quote: donavi49

Well, I wrote. Single engine with normal minced meat

This is stuffed MiG21 !!!!! 3rd generation plane !!!!

[donavi49]

He is the same MiG-21 as the F-16 - MiG-21. Also single-engine, single-engine, light .

[NEOZ]

Quote: donavi49

He is the same MiG-21 as the F-16 - MiG-21

FC-1 (ZhF17tander) was developed on the basis of a descendant of the Soviet MiG-21 manufactured in China.
they even have similar characteristics (mig21bis)

[donavi49]

Well this is written in the murders.

He does not even look like. The wing is completely mine. The fuselage too.

However, what makes a modern airplane a modern airplane today?
The range of weapons and modules used (EW / TsU / surveillance container, etc.) = FC-1 has huge compatibility with all types. Even two RCC / lung CR has.

Modern detection tools. And there is a full nose fairing of a decent diameter, where you can shove different radars. And this is a critical drawback of the MiG-21 - where a serious radar has nowhere to shove, only ultra-compact.
Modern avionics, personal information field for the pilot. Here, too, on Block2, even elements of the 5th generation have already begun to be introduced in the cabin. On Block3, they already screwed on a wide HUD of advanced parameters, as on the 5th generation + a new saw was added to the helmet. Added all these real-time data transfers, interaction with UAVs, etc.

[NEOZ]

Quote: donavi49

Well this is written in the murders.

the numbers do not lie.

[Cympak]

Simulator JF-17 in DCS

[Pavel57]

This is not the MiG-21. Although, I admit that the Mikoyanites had a hand in it.

[Sky strike fighter]

you can probably make friends with the R-77 and Artem products with the board.

Did P-27 mean? P-77 is not produced in Ukraine.

[donavi49]

R-77 were but they were already disposed of by sale.

Well, yes, the existing R-73 / R-27 can be made friends with Thunder.

[Sky strike fighter]

And what about the RD-93 engine, how to be standing on the JF-17 Block 3? Does Motor Sich have an analogue or are planning to buy with the Chinese engine, but is it necessary to integrate it on the plane too?

[donavi49]

Well, this is also solvable. Moreover, I will not be surprised if the RD-93 is sold under the Ukrainian contract, even without any schemes, directly. Russia is a generous soul .

So far, this is a group of tourists - they are spending money on inspecting equipment for the prospective updating of the Ukrainian Air Force. However, JF-17 if you remove the factor of living F-16 knee from lobbyists and politicians, it is a real purchase. For China, by tradition, will give a loan of 80 +% of the body at a small percentage. And the volume itself will be quite lifting for the money. That is, you can collect 12 combat and 2 sparks for 600-700 million with equipment, simulators, training, weapons. Whereas the F-16 a similar package rolls over for 1,5 billion, and even how the Slovaks fly under 2 billion. This is unrealistic even on credit.

[Pavel57]

R-27 - yes, but the rocket is already out of date. R-73 in Ukraine was not manufactured. There was a project of a similar rocket, but did not go beyond exhibitions.

[Zementbomber]

R-27 - the rocket is outdated

"Niyak!" Especially - if you maintain the set of GOS for her "at the proper ideological and artistic level."

[Pavel57]

"Niyak!" Especially - if you support the set of GOS for her "at the proper ideological and artistic level."
So this is one of the most difficult tasks - the creation of modern heads, their development and testing.
Especially the ARGS, which was not under the R-27.

[Zementbomber]

So who is arguing?
But the competence in IK GOS and radio correction systems has been preserved in Ukraine since the times of the USSR / USSR. ARL GOS - in the "zero" they also smiled. True, the rocket for which it was developed was recognized by the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense as unnecessary.

[Pavel57]

Heat heads in Ukraine were the best in the USSR.

[Zementbomber]

I don’t know how "the best in the USSR" (he was still young then ) - but our (Ukrainian) IC GOS for MANPADS, capable of working on transonic and supersonic targets - EMNIS, and now the only thing such a product in the world. Although many years have passed since its first demonstration ...

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: APASUS

It is interesting to read how the former Soviet republic wants to buy planes from Pakistan. Here's the news so the news

this is called progress in Ukrainian !!! living in parallel reality is not for you khukh-mukhra !!!

[svp67]

Urya, ZDOBULI !!! "Own" "light battle litak" ...

[Jarserge]

Another achievement .....

[Jarserge]

Naive, who will allow Ukraine to buy non-American? Where is the profit for the owner in such difficult times ?! Especially Chinese from competitors ??? It's just the guys mean that they "chose, chose" and "chose the best" and at the same time "aired" at the state expense.

[Zementbomber]

Suddenly - USA is far not in first place in the supply of weapons and military equipment, missiles and ammunition to Ukraine.

[Jarserge]

You think so .... Supplied by other countries, mainly NATO. Give permission and get each batch a kickback. And something seems to be going to Ukraine and passing by ... to Syria, etc. etc. .On the territory of Ukraine without Americans and "dogs do not bark"

[Zementbomber]

I do not think". I know the real picture.
And she is very different from porn fantasies in RuNet ...

[Jarserge]

I do not know what you "know" or it seems to you that you know. Moreover, it makes no sense to "shine" with awareness. As the saying goes, "time will judge us" Interesting things emerge in connection with the Ukrainian investigation of explosions in warehouses of art weapons. And also ask why the jewels supplied by the Americans to Ukraine were suddenly taken out for storage in Poland

[Zementbomber]

Simply put - you still have nothing to object to. It remains only to desperately and doomed to try once again to replicate the "information" of the Russian information wines about the "export" of Ukrainian "Javelins" to Poland. "The shameful drain is counted - I am writing another victory on my account.

[Jarserge]

Drain? !! So you carefully read your farmers' mass media locholization, information from them, sometimes the Lviv people do not understand what they are writing about. Then, apparently, there was a shout from the embassy of the owners and the "plum" did not receive the proper distribution. And at the Yavoriv training ground, there were only models for the natives

[Zementbomber]

The fact of the matter is that, due to professional duties and professional interest, I follow, including and for info-bins - and not only yours. And behind the seamy side of their work - too. And I myself know how, of course (among my Teachers to the Great Art of InfoWar - there were still legendary in the circles of experts Kulik and Kushnarev). And one of the "primes" among the military journalist-scammers, specializing in Ukrtema, he taught and coached himself (google "Diana Mikhailova"). .

[Jarserge]

I have enough of my professional duties to keep an eye on the "talkers" and liars. No need for nice words. Ukraine is smeared with shit on the resale of weapons nowhere else. Probably the SBU arranged a "drain" by actually admitting that the warehouses are in Balakleya, etc. etc. blew up "covering their tracks." Recent information from the same SBU that the servicemen of one of the units (from the combat zone) decided to sell weapons and ammunition outside the country. Burned in Tripoli Il-76 you are not enough? Or a Ukrainian transport plane, accidentally detained by Moldova, on its way from the Czech Republic, changing documents from armament to oil equipment and changing course to the Middle East? Obviously, this is not Kuchma with "chain mail", here the owners of Ukraine are in business, and therefore there is practically no "loop". Such talkers like you will be unscrewed at once. There is such a port of Oktyabrsky, widely known in narrow circles, since Soviet times. During the Soviet era, it was from there that multiple launch rocket harvesters were sent to the countries that took the path of building socialism. It is interesting to observe now the ships that are loaded there, what and where they are going. It's easier to grind with the tongue .. yes with such teachers.

[Zementbomber]

I have a discovery for you: the arms business - from without blood, dirt and crime - does not exist by definition. If you want not to get smeared, you will suck your paw like the Havelian CSFR. So the "pollution indicator is within the normal range."
Well, yes - the port station "Oktyabrsky" - has long been known not only "in narrow circles".
And what "the talkers say" depends entirely on the fee. At fairly high prices - what in France is called "revolving journalism" - it is quite a place to be.
PS I am still waiting for some at least the slightest bit significant confirmation that the Ukrainian "Java" - transferred "for storage" to Poland. No, I understand perfectly well that you do not have them (these confirmations) - but let it be considered that I am still waiting.

[Hippo]

Would Russia buy Tejas for self-defense?
With a license for the engine ...

[Pavel57]

Hypothetically JF-17 vs Su35. Oddly enough, over a long distance the odds are approximately equal.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Hippopotamus

Would Russia buy Tejas for self-defense?
With a license for the engine ...

Why? There is a Mig-35 with AFAR Zhuk-AM (as an option), but the Russian Defense Ministry saves here by buying a Mig-35 with a slot radar. And you still want to buy Tejas with an American engine. Besides, Tejas costs more than F -35. In general, absurdity.

[Cympak]

JF-17 is a very sophisticated aircraft in avionics and weapons. In terms of performance characteristics, it is of course inferior to the MiG-29 and F-16C, but with the right tactics of conducting air combat and long-range active missiles V-V, this drawback is leveled. By the way, anyone can compare the JF-17 in business with the MiG-29, Su-27, MiG-21, F-15C, F-16C, F-18C, Mirage-2000C and other planes in DCS Wold, there is a monthly free access to almost to all modules. There you will understand avionics or maneuverability in modern aerial combat. And in terms of actions on ground targets, the JF-17 is one of the coolest aircraft in the DCS Wold due to the wide range of precision weapons. Note JF-17 can be installed under the OpenBetta version of DCS World

[TermNachTer]

The author contradicts himself. AFAR and the latest electronic warfare systems, by definition, cannot be cheap. Considering the current state of the Banderland economy, the maximum that they will "pull" is the Brazilian "toucano" in general with radar and electronic warfare.

[Pavel57]

For Ukraine, it is optimal to purchase car kits for assembling L-15 for your engine.

[Pavel57]

Quote: donavi49

R-77 were but they were already disposed of by sale.
.

I wonder which country became the proud owner of a non-serial missile R-77?

[Old major]

Most likely from Ukraine it’s just the appearance of activity.
Everything is simple - together with airplanes and retraining of pilots and IAS, Ukraine will have to fully purchase all means of destruction (on the JF-17 UR and NAR its own, the old Soviet ones do not fit the word at all), purchase all means of ground operation, special equipment, etc. d. In general, it is very expensive. Considering that one JF-17BIII costs about $ 30 million, how many planes need to be purchased in order to at least somehow meet the criteria for combat stability, this contract will pull about $ 4-4,5 billion.
Where does this poverty come from?

[Ovsigovets]

not even China)))) and Pakistan China

[Zhevlonenko]

The fate of the Ukrainian fleet awaits the aviation of ukraine, they will buy second-hand "maize" somewhere and will pass it off for another overhaul.