Military Review

Slavyansk and Kramatorsk: the beginning of a strange war

278

Without conspiracy theories



To be honest, all these conspiracy theories were already tired of it, especially since Igor Girkin himself and many of his associates subsequently repeatedly changed their opinions and their testimonies of what was happening. Let's agree that we do not know how and why Girkin and his detachment ended up in Slavyansk, simultaneously taking command over the Druzhkovka garrison.

As well as it makes no sense to discuss theories about exactly what the exit from Slavyansk and Kramatorsk was - the so-called “Kutuzov maneuver”, the “agreement” with the Ukrainian side, or simply Strelkov’s nerves lost, in connection with which he planned to urgently leave DNR to the most snowy.

The author can only cite his own observations and memories of those times, which are to some extent much more valuable than the politically biased statements of the direct participants or the endless conspiracy theories of those who were not close to Slavyansk or Kramatorsk after April 2014.

Strange war


After the first spirit-raising and victorious battles and cases of peaceful “expense” with conscript soldiers (some of which went over to the militia side), the situation began to change not for the better. APU reliably dug in at the prevailing height of Mount Karachun, from where at any moment they could wipe almost any object in Slavyansk and Kramatorsk from the face of the earth (even the headquarters of Kramatorsk could easily be erased into powder); they occupied the Kramatorsk airfield, from where they regularly made sorties into the city.

What exactly prevented the APU from entering the cities is difficult to say, but certainly not the bragging of couch analysts about how the militia would burn armored vehicles in urban areas. There was nothing to burn, alas. The captured RPGs most often did not work, which Strelkov himself complained about. In May-June 2014, even the anti-tank gun of the Second World War or the post-war SKS carbine were in price. Weapons there were extremely few. Like trained people. Against the background of really literate or simply desperately brave and quick-witted fighters and commanders, individual characters stood out for their "abilities." In principle, then to demolish all our resistance was not difficult. Why this was not done remains a mystery.

Voice in the wilderness


Since the end of May, Strelkov’s panic reports on the lack of weapons and the imminent death of all the defenders of Slavyansk and Kramatorsk were desperately getting on their nerves. Firstly, they went through official channels and scared great both ordinary soldiers (who already often panicked due to carelessness of command) and the loyal population. Especially all this began to get on the nerves at the moment when the supply was more or less adjusted, and it was not only about small arms.

At night, one could hear caravans of machinery rattling through locals along sloping steppe roads to Slavyansk. By the way, a curious moment: Igor Girkin himself repeatedly complained about the lack of equipment and the fact that he had to fight with one single “Nona”. However, several armored groups came out, one of which was actually destroyed under the Stella.

Also, according to the testimony of the former Deputy Minister of Defense of the DPR, Sergei Velikorodny, who was defending Semyonovka, before he immediately left Slavyansk in the “headquarters”, where he came to get the latest instructions before leaving, he saw a considerable amount of weapons, including grenade launchers, about which so many times to no avail requested the command.

All to the exit


Surely something strange was going on at the headquarters, but the most “fun” began on the night of leaving Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, which the author met near the Kramatorsk airfield. Suddenly, the group was removed from its position and sent under Druzhkovka, where it was ordered to stop, up to power methods, any freight transport that would move to or from the city. A few hours later, the Kramatorsk headquarters stopped communicating, but a convoy appeared with personnel, fuel trucks, etc., which rolled several times in different directions, probably looking for the safest road to Donetsk (?). Fortunately, they did not open fire on the column.

It soon became clear that the entire headquarters safely removed and left Kramatorsk, leaving behind a lot of interesting documents, among which were lists of loyal citizens, participants in the organization of the referendum, etc. For many, this cost freedom. By morning, up to a thousand fighters of the Slavic and Kramatorsk garrisons gathered in the central square. Once again, I was struck by the thought: what were all the measures of secrecy, if then people were just so easily gathered in an open place? And why did the APU not take advantage of the situation and cover us with fire? The riddle.

Afterword.


The significance of Slavyansk is difficult to overestimate, however, according to the author’s sincere, although unpopular, opinion, this value is purely symbolic. In terms of strategy or tactics, Girkin’s escapade did not bring much benefit. Yes, and in a few weeks the battles began such that, in comparison with them, the entire Slavic epic was clearly losing in scale.

However, thanks largely to Girkin himself, to Babai and the professional work of the Russian military commanders, the defense of Slavyansk became a symbol of the “Russian spring” and attracted world attention to the Donbass, which provided the militia with a constant influx of volunteers and comprehensive assistance, without which most of the DPR and LPR advocates were unlikely to survive would be the summer of 2014.
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  1. military_cat
    military_cat April 17 2020 05: 33 New
    22
    The significance of Slavyansk is difficult to overestimate, however, according to the author’s sincere, although unpopular, opinion, this value is purely symbolic.
    And the Russian-speaking population, with whom the junta has the opportunity now to do anything - is it also purely symbolic? Is it not for the sake of his defense that, in principle, everything was started?
    1. DMB 75
      DMB 75 April 17 2020 05: 48 New
      22
      There was a lot of trouble then, still incomprehensible ... I remember very well that impulse nationwide, the Russian spring, Novorossiya ... Why it didn’t work out like in the Crimea, then to the authorities of our country, some volunteers could take kuev at 14, but the teams didn’t it followed .. Why? I don’t know all these intricacies of politics .. It’s still very annoying. It was possible, sanctions are not an argument, they still followed, there is something else, and what is incomprehensible to me ...
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent April 17 2020 06: 11 New
        20
        Quote: DMB 75
        There was a lot of muddy then, still incomprehensible full ...

        it makes no sense to discuss theories about exactly what the exit from Slavyansk and Kramatorsk was - the so-called “Kutuzov maneuver”, the “agreement” with the Ukrainian side, or just Strelkov’s nerves lost, in connection with which he planned to urgently leave the DPR before Snowy himself.

        Собственно,сразу после выхода из Славянска,хорошо знакомый мне ополченец воевавший с первых дней под командованием Стрелкова,доверительно "шепнул на ухо",зная что я живу неподалёку - "Get ready, Snow will be the second Slavic".
        And there was no particular secret even then that the city should become a major stronghold of the militia. They knew about this in dill. This is confirmed by the video about the airstrike in the city ...

        The fact that Snezhnoye actually became another center of concentration of the militia subsequently made it possible to get rid of the ukronatsi near Saur’s grave and eliminate the cutting-off blow by the converging forces of the Armed Forces in Shakhtyorsk, which in turn prevented a significant part of the territory of the DPR from being cut off from Russia ...

        The significance of Slavyansk is difficult to overestimate, however, according to the author’s sincere, although unpopular, opinion, this value is purely symbolic.


        To each his own... Personally, I assess this maneuver as a necessary and saving step for the DPR ...
        Based on the fact that the unexpected appearance for many of the living Strelkov, and with powerful militia fired upon, was confused by some cards for the surrender of Donetsk.

        And we will do what we consider necessary:

        In the DNI will issue a postage stamp in honor of the birthday of Lenin

        DONETSK, April 15, 2020, Donbass Post will issue an envelope and stamp dedicated to the 150th anniversary of the birth of the USSR founder Vladimir Lenin, the press service of the enterprise said.

        “On April 22, we will introduce, perhaps, the most important and expected stamp of 2020, according to philatelists. The release form is a small sheet made in the style of the Great People series, it was reported.
        The press service noted that the face value of the brand would be 39 rubles. An envelope of the first day and a special stamp will also be put into circulation.

        Details: https://regnum.ru/news/society/2917805.html
        Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM.


        Earlier:

        In the DNI issued a postage stamp on the birthday of Stalin
        DONETSK, December 18, 2019 The Post of Donbass enterprise issued the first brand of the Great People series, the company's press service said December 18.

        “On December 18, 2019, SE“ Donbass Post ”puts into circulation the most anticipated stamp of the year. The issue of the new state postage sign is dedicated to the birthday of Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, ”it was informed.
        The stamp depicts a ceremonial portrait of Stalin. The face value of the brand is 39 rubles, the circulation is 16 thousand copies.

        Details: https://regnum.ru/news/society/2810849.html
        Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM.

      2. 72jora72
        72jora72 April 17 2020 07: 17 New
        24
        I remember perfectly that outburst of the nation-wide, the Russian spring, the New Russia ... Why didn’t it work out like with Crimea, then there are questions to our authorities,
        Maybe one of the reasons is that the locals were not very eager to fight (at least until the month of July)? In my local company there were 25-30 percent, the rest were volunteers from Russia, Armenia, Belarus, and recall how many militias were in Mariupol? 50-65 people for the whole Marik ....
        1. Kronos
          Kronos April 17 2020 11: 11 New
          -3
          In the Civil War in Russia, only a few percent participated, the rest watched so there was no need for hato skrynkov
        2. atalef
          atalef April 18 2020 09: 46 New
          -13
          Quote: 72jora72
          Maybe one of the reasons is that the locals were not very eager to fight

          ??
          Quote: 72jora72
          In my local company there were 25-30 percent, the rest were volunteers from Russia, Armenia, Belarus, and recall how many militias were in Mariupol? 50-65 people for the whole Marik

          without me - I got married.
          Your words confirm my opinion - all this was conceived not as an internal resistance of the local population, but as imposed from outside.
          Without the intervention of external forces, both Donetsk and Lugansk would live in peace now, like all other regions of Ukraine - without war.
          Hard but peaceful.
          You brought the war to Ukraine, not Maidan.
          It was local on the drum.
          1. CSKA
            CSKA April 18 2020 11: 33 New
            17
            Quote: atalef
            without me - I got married.
            Your words confirm my opinion - all this was conceived not as an internal resistance of the local population, but as imposed from outside.
            Without the intervention of external forces, both Donetsk and Lugansk would live in peace now, like all other regions of Ukraine - without war.
            Hard but peaceful.
            You brought the war to Ukraine, not Maidan.
            It was local on the drum.

            At least you don’t tell the clown to us who brought us there. Just smiles like you Sasha. Although what can I say if your Kozyrev is simply the best diplomat in the Russian Federation. Everything speaks for itself here. You just belong to those little people in the Russian Federation who are ready to sell the country even now.
            1. atalef
              atalef April 18 2020 11: 48 New
              -8
              Quote: CSKA
              Quote: atalef
              without me - I got married.
              Your words confirm my opinion - all this was conceived not as an internal resistance of the local population, but as imposed from outside.
              Without the intervention of external forces, both Donetsk and Lugansk would live in peace now, like all other regions of Ukraine - without war.
              Hard but peaceful.
              You brought the war to Ukraine, not Maidan.
              It was local on the drum.

              At least you don’t tell the clown to us who brought us there. Just smiles like you Sasha. Although what can I say if your Kozyrev is simply the best diplomat in the Russian Federation. Everything speaks for itself here. You just belong to those little people in the Russian Federation who are ready to sell the country even now.

              local - they are different.
              Quote: CSKA
              Just smiles like you Sasha.

              and more specifically?
              Quote: CSKA
              Although what can I say if Kozyrev is just the best diplomat in Russia

              he is not the best, but no worse than Lavrov.
              Under him, Russia at least was not in conflict with 2/3 of the world.
              Quote: CSKA
              You just belong to those little people in the Russian Federation who are ready to sell the country even now.

              I do not live in Russia, so I have nothing to sell.
              The second question is what does this have to do with LDN,
              Well, the third - before writing such abstract opuses - try to answer questions first.
              Quote: atalef
              Without the intervention of external forces, both Donetsk and Lugansk would live in peace now, like all other regions of Ukraine - without war.
              Hard but peaceful.
              1. CSKA
                CSKA April 18 2020 14: 55 New
                14
                Quote: atalef
                local - they are different.

                Have you personally conducted a survey?
                Quote: atalef
                and more specifically?

                Giving I guess. You are a former citizen of dill who moved to permanent residence in Israel. And like many former USSR citizens who moved to Israel, you criticize anything and everything that the Russian Federation would not do. Tomorrow, for example, you will want to move to China and you will already criticize US policy.
                Therefore, it’s funny for me to read your cries. Like you are corrupt people.
                Quote: atalef
                he is not the best, but no worse than Lavrov.

                He was a jerk ready to grovel before the west. And now this creature is sitting in the USA and scribbling books about what a magnificent Foreign Minister he was. Lavrov does not do that.
                Quote: atalef
                Under him, Russia at least was not in conflict with 2/3 of the world.

                ))))) This is just the level of shkolota. Good-evil, black-and-white, good-bad. That's bullshit. We have normal relations with almost all countries of the world. There are disagreements with some EU countries, the USA and Canada, but this is normal when you conduct an independent foreign policy. And at the same time, we always have a dialogue with them and cooperate. Bad relations only with dill, Georgia, the Baltic states and Poland. All. Just like the PRC or the USA, there are disagreements and bad relations with a number of countries.
                Quote: atalef
                The second question is what does this have to do with LDN,

                Given that you are not a citizen of the Russian Federation, any. There are such citizens of the Russian Federation such as a groysman or bulk ready to return Crimea and LDNR to merge and much more to be done that would say thanks to them once again in the State Department.
                Quote: atalef
                Well, the third - before writing such abstract opuses - try to answer questions first.

                Intervention of external forces is Strelkov in Slavyansk with 100 people?)))))))
                I do not vparivat this nonsense. From 2014 to 2017, I was in the DPR NM. And while Strelkov was in Slavyansk, I know very well how we had in Donetsk. In late spring, even from other countries there were no volunteers, only local ones. So do not tell me tales about external forces. Unfortunately, the RF Armed Forces did not enter. And so, our people really wanted what would be like in the Crimea. And if we had not started in 2014, then we would have lived without war, but this was the lot of the wretched suffered by the opportunists.
                1. atalef
                  atalef April 18 2020 15: 06 New
                  -10
                  Quote: CSKA
                  Have you personally conducted a survey?

                  I talked with refugees from Donetsk and Lugansk.
                  Have you done a survey?
                  Quote: CSKA
                  Giving I guess. You are a former citizen of dill

                  Did not guess.
                  laughing
                  I'm from Russia
                  Quote: CSKA
                  moved to permanent residence in Israel.

                  30 years ago.
                  Quote: CSKA
                  And how many former USSR citizens who moved to Israel criticize everything and everyone,

                  no, not everything and everything.
                  Putin is a great president for us.

                  Quote: CSKA
                  that would not do the Russian Federation

                  nothing like this
                  Quote: CSKA
                  Tomorrow, for example, you want to move to China and you will already criticize US policy

                  I do not want to move to China laughing
                  By the way, but bet what is it, I like the policy of the Russian Federation in relation to Israel.
                  Quote: CSKA
                  Like you are corrupt people.

                  I did not sell anyone.
                  Quote: CSKA
                  USA and scribbles books about what a magnificent Foreign Minister he was. Lavrov does not do that.

                  what's the difference who does what and you don’t know what Lavrov will do after his resignation.
                  I say that under Kozyrev Russia had a much better weight and image in the world.
                  Quote: CSKA
                  We have normal relations with almost all countries of the world.

                  oh well, that’s probably why sanctions and most of the republics of the USSR are in your enemies
                  Quote: CSKA
                  There are disagreements with some EU countries, USA and Canada.

                  And all 7 Or continue the list?
                  Quote: CSKA
                  in person, like the PRC or the USA, there are disagreements and bad relations with a number of countries.

                  not exactly . China not sanctioned
                  Quote: CSKA
                  Given that you are not a citizen of the Russian Federation

                  again did not guess - citizen.
                  like that with your sight a little shitty.
                  Quote: CSKA
                  The intervention of external forces is Strelkov in Slavyansk with 100 people?))

                  Of course, organized and armed 100 people can do a lot - Chechnya is an example for you, it also started there
                  Quote: CSKA
                  And while Strelkov was in Slavyansk, I know very well how we had in Donetsk.

                  And How ?
                  Russians were shot?
                  Quote: CSKA
                  And if we didn’t start in 2014, we would live without war, but this was the lot of the wretched

                  Well, of course, everyone in the world is miserable, only you are Spanish pilots.
                  Therefore, probably 30% of the population and shed.
                  1. CSKA
                    CSKA April 22 2020 16: 06 New
                    0
                    Quote: atalef
                    I talked with refugees from Donetsk and Lugansk.

                    Who would doubt that. Of course, after talking with one or two people, you concluded that the locals wanted to. And I guess he also talked in Kiev.
                    Quote: atalef
                    Have you done a survey?

                    And I was born in Donetsk. I have a huge number of local friends and acquaintances, and I already know the mood. A vivid example of this is Shakhtar’s matches in the Donbass Arena, when after the annexation of Crimea, the entire stadium was booed by ultras hanging the banner of Crimea tse Ukraine, and from the second tier they were also thrown with plastic cups.
                    Quote: atalef
                    Did not guess.

                    I'm from Russia

                    Quote: atalef
                    30 years ago.

                    Oh, I'm sure I'm sure you're lying Sasha. And a citizen of the Russian Federation, and you have been living in Israel for 30 years, and then you are constantly in Ukraine. Anyway.
                    Quote: atalef
                    I do not want to move to China

                    I’m not forcing it, this is an example.
                    Quote: atalef
                    what's the difference who does what and you don’t know what Lavrov will do after his resignation.

                    Well, of course I don’t know.
                    Quote: atalef
                    I say that under Kozyrev Russia had a much better weight and image in the world.

                    Weight? Do not carry nonsense. Everyone then did not care about the opinion of Russia, and the image is all nonsense. The main thing is the interests of the country, and not how some people in some countries babble something.
                    Quote: atalef
                    oh well, that’s probably why sanctions and most of the republics of the USSR are in your enemies

                    Under the sanctions, the USSR was and the Russian Federation will always be. A strong RF is not needed by the West. And since when are the Baltic states and Georgia the majority? Understand the numbers?
                    Quote: atalef
                    And all 7 Or continue the list?

                    Well, of course. Let's see who else you count.
                    Quote: atalef
                    not exactly . China not sanctioned

                    Have you ever imposed sanctions against China? Against her companies? Read.
                    Quote: atalef
                    Of course, organized and armed 100 people can do a lot - Chechnya is an example for you, it also started there

                    There were not 100 armed men in Chechnya.
                    Quote: atalef
                    And How ?
                    Russians were shot?

                    No. We local actively armed.
                    Quote: atalef
                    Therefore, probably 30% of the population and shed.

                    ))))) Again, give out your speculation for the truth? And for what reason do people run away from western Ukraine every year?
            2. anjey
              anjey April 18 2020 13: 10 New
              +9
              Это "Эхо Израиля",поддержка украинскому еврейству у власти,так сказать аморально-демагогичная laughing
          2. anjey
            anjey April 18 2020 12: 58 New
            10
            "Эхо Израиля",хорош здесь муть наводить и тень на плетень из Хайфы laughing .
            Of course, everything was from outside, the trigger is the United States and the Maidan coup, and then Russia turned on, do not sit in silence when they begin to wave fists under your nose.
            But a priori, the United States did not need a peaceful and prosperous Ukraine, they needed a bridgehead-breeding ground for Russophobia, chaos, and a military and continuous conflict .....
            1. anjey
              anjey April 18 2020 13: 00 New
              +7
              Quote: atalef
              I do not live in Russia, so I have nothing to sell.
              You’re better off lying about BV, do not lie with your lies on the Russian expanses, you and so on in every hole of the World as plugs and in most malicious and foul-smelling ......
            2. atalef
              atalef April 18 2020 13: 19 New
              -8
              Quote: anjey
              "Эхо Израиля",хорош здесь муть наводить и тень на плетень из Хайфы

              and so what on the topic to answer?
              Quote: anjey
              Of course, everything was from outside, the trigger is the United States and the Maidan coup, and then Russia turned on, do not sit in silence when you begin to wave fists under your nose

              Well, of course, a neighbor’s mess is there, why not squeeze a shed under the guise. wink
              I would understand if the Russian Federation got into a mediator with the aim of trying on the parties and working out a consensus among the fraternal state - it’s not so simpler ... You’ve got a coup - that's why we are in Crimea.

              Quote: anjey
              But a priori, the USA did not need a peaceful and prosperous Ukraine

              USA? I have a different opinion on this subject.
              Neither the US troops, but the Russian Federation entered the Crimea.
              The entire LDNR army is a weapon, instructors from the Russian Federation.
              All power in LDNR is curators from Russia.
              Here where there are no curators - for some reason they live peacefully.
              And where the curators are, war, unrecognized territories, etc., etc. at the same time, the Russian Federation constantly declares that LDNR is an integral part of Ukraine.
              Strange, no?
              Quote: anjey
              chaos and military and continuous conflict .....

              It’s strange, interesting, why aren’t they fighting in the rest of Ukraine?
              Probably for the same reason when there was a mess in Chechnya - they fought only in Chechnya.
              You are the same separatists who raised armed uprising against the legitimate authority in the state in which you reside.
              You are also fed from the outside.
              You are one and the same, unless you cut your head.
              And just as Russia fought with Ichkeria (and absolutely correctly), so Ukraine will fight with you, which is absolutely legitimate.
              1. anjey
                anjey April 18 2020 13: 54 New
                +5
                Quote: atalef
                USA? I have a different opinion on this subject.
                Did you seem to understand geopolitics before, or did you pass by? laughing
              2. anjey
                anjey April 18 2020 14: 02 New
                +5
                Quote: atalef
                I would understand if the Russian Federation got into an intermediary for the purpose of trying on the parties
                She did fit in, only for some reason she was pushed out by the side of the conflict, why not the USA? they are also the opposite-interested party, and even a geopolitical adversary and giving them the Crimea and depriving themselves of the Black Sea was fatal and criminal for Russia, as they realized that the pro-American and anti-Russian clique had come to power, so they squeezed out, before that Crimea had no Ukraine selected, it is a pity that all the Black Sea region with the Donbass have not been squeezed out and this is the land conquered historically by Russia and it must belong to it by right .......
                1. atalef
                  atalef April 18 2020 14: 12 New
                  -10
                  Quote: anjey
                  She got into it, but for some reason she is pushed out by the side of the conflict, why not the USA?

                  because the troops of the Russian Federation entered the Crimea, because LDNR is completely a project of the Russian Federation, including with the full military component --- the Russian troops fought in the Crimea and LDNR - the Russian Federation, Karl - not the United States.
                  Quote: anjey
                  they are also the opposite-interested party, and even a geopolitical adversary and give them the Crimea and deprive themselves of the Black Sea

                  Why the hell is the USA Crimea?
                  Romania Bulgaria, Georgia, Turkey, Ukraine - all these countries are allies of the United States and their fleet periodically enters their bases.

                  Quote: anjey
                  as they understood that the pro-American and anti-Russian clique came to power, that’s

                  Well, thank God, with the initiative of you, Gleb Yegorych.
                  The sovereign right of Ukraine to choose friends, partners and allies. Change foreign and domestic policies.
                  And the Russian Federation simply took and tore off its legal territory from Ukraine.
                  occupied (in the common language it is called)
                  Quote: anjey
                  before that no one took away Crimea from Ukraine

                  justification. laughing
                  Nothing for a moment, what is this another state?

                  Quote: anjey
                  it’s a pity that they didn’t overcome all of the Black Sea region and the Donbass, but this is the land conquered historically by Russia and it must belong to it by right .......

                  I wonder what he will say about this, for example, Greece or Turkey?
                  they owned the Crimea hundreds of years more than Russia, that is, in your opinion, they absolutely legitimately had the right to squeeze it from Ukraine?
                  1. boris epstein
                    boris epstein April 18 2020 14: 59 New
                    +2
                    "...потому что в Крым вошли войска РФ" Российские войска из Крыма и не уходили. По договору о разделе Черноморского флота Россия получала 70% боевых кораблей, бухты для их стоянки, инфрастуктуру для их обслуживания, аэродром для авиации ЧФ России, жилой фонд для офицеров,мичманов флота,офицеров и прапорщиков морской пехоты ЧФ РФ, а так же право иметь в Крыму 15000 сухопутных войск.РФ обязывалась платить за аренду Севастопольской базы. Но потом Украина трижды попадалась на воровстве газа из транзитных газопроводов. Первый раз рассчиталась ядерным оружием, второй раз-стратегическими бомбардировщиками Ту-160, а третий раз-суммой, равной арендной плате Севастопольский базы за 20 лет.
                    1. atalef
                      atalef April 18 2020 16: 23 New
                      -6
                      Quote: boris epstein
                      "...потому что в Крым вошли войска РФ" Российские войска из Крыма и не уходили. По договору о разделе Черноморского флота Россия получала 70% боевых кораблей, бухты для их стоянки, инфрастуктуру для их обслуживания, аэродром для авиации ЧФ России, жилой фонд для офицеров,мичманов флота,офицеров и прапорщиков морской пехоты ЧФ РФ, а так же право иметь в Крыму 15000 сухопутных войск.РФ обязывалась платить за аренду Севастопольской базы. Но потом Украина трижды попадалась на воровстве газа из транзитных газопроводов. Первый раз рассчиталась ядерным оружием, второй раз-стратегическими бомбардировщиками Ту-160, а третий раз-суммой, равной арендной плате Севастопольский базы за 20 лет.

                      Ie is this an occasion to chop off a piece of its territory from another country?
                      That is, the Americans, they would have taken it so on the pretext that our military is here all the same. and for plnnMarshall you owe us a coffin of life - chop off so suppose Bavaria.
                      1. boris epstein
                        boris epstein April 19 2020 11: 51 New
                        0
                        "...т.е это повод оттяпать у другой страны кусок её территории ?
                        Т.е американцы , взяли бы так под предлогом , что наши военные всейравно тут находятся . а за плпнМаршалла вы нам по гроб жизни обязаны -- оттяпалши бы так предположим Баварию."
                        Back in 1990, Crimea is higher from Ukraine and created by the results of the referendum. Autonomous Republic of Crimea. And until 1954, Crimea was part of the RSFSR and transferred to Ukraine illegally. And then Kuchma bribed the Crimean Prime Minister Kunitsyn and eliminated the autonomy of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea autonomously. This was already an occupation. The point in the desire to return to Russia was put by your Maidan and another referendum in Crimea. The fact that WestLlugi and you do not recognize its results are your problems and those of the West. The Albanians generally chopped off Kosovo from Serbia without a referendum, and neither you nor the West does not reflect.
                  2. E_V_N
                    E_V_N April 18 2020 21: 57 New
                    +2
                    Quote: atalef
                    because the troops of the Russian Federation entered the Crimea, because LDNR is completely a project of the Russian Federation, including with a full military component --- Russian troops fought in Crimea and in LDNR - the Russian Federation, Karl - not the United States.
                    Quote: anjey

                    In a serious conversation, you don’t need to pull events out of sequence, you are talking with adults if you are not a banal Troll.
                    Все началось с майдана (что есть полностью проект США), ЛДНР это уже следствие событий майдана. Надеюсь вы не станете отрицать, что Крым планировалось сделать базой НАТО (то есть США). По поводу "войска РФ воевали в Крыму", ну ка где и какие боевые действия были в Крыму, сколько погибших и раненых с обеих сторон, так нагло врать, ну это перебор.
                    И по поводу свержения законного правительства, не майдан ли сверг законно избранного президента Януковича. И почему США и Израиль сразу признали законным этот переворот, даже министров правительства из США прислали. Причина проста, "сукины дети" были своими для США и Израиля.
                  3. 16329
                    16329 April 19 2020 10: 57 New
                    +1
                    Yes, finally cease to equalize Russia and Ukraine, virtually all of Ukraine (well, maybe except Volhynia, Galicia and Transcarpathia) is part of large Russia and is its temporarily severed territory,
                    Russia will never really recognize the independence of Ukraine, and as soon as the relevant international situation develops, Ukraine will be returned.
                    Russia is the legal successor of the USSR and the Russian Empire, and there will always be a legal basis for the reintegration of Russian territories
                    At the moment, issues with the Crimea have been resolved, and some positions in the Donbass have been fixed, then the process will go when the necessary political configuration develops
                    But at the expense of Kozyrev and the 1990s, it’s not serious to speak, it was just a phase of the collapse of Russia and another policy then
                    And at the expense of enmity from 2/3 of the world, you also grabbed
                    The EU, the USA and the Shards of the British Empire, of course, this is a serious opponent, but in the modern world system these opponents are not monolithic, they have other serious problems, etc.
                    The world is changing, everything will change
                    And with Israel, as you noted, Russia has good relations, I think it will be even better, and the Ukrainian issue will be solved somehow, gradually ...
                  4. Foxmara
                    Foxmara April 19 2020 17: 48 New
                    +1
                    To hell USA Crimea ?? Why are you asking us? How many tantrums from the USA about this are not in the know, or what? They even reached direct confessions and demands that they needed a base there. So to your friends questions and complaints. You would also ask why England and France needed Crimea during the Crimean War. Or you can call it the first world .. After all, then Crimea was only one of the theaters of action
                  5. Sunstorm
                    Sunstorm April 20 2020 17: 25 New
                    +1
                    Quote: atalef
                    I wonder what he will say about this, for example, Greece or Turkey?
                    they owned the Crimea hundreds of years more than Russia, that is, in your opinion, they absolutely legitimately had the right to squeeze it from Ukraine?

                    What nonsense?) How could Greece own the Crimea? Provided that a single Greek state appeared .... you recall when? How could Turkey own the Crimea if the Crimean Khan was always on its own?
              3. boris epstein
                boris epstein April 18 2020 15: 23 New
                +4
                "И как Россия воевала с Ичкерией ( и абсолютно правильно) , так и Украина будет бороться с вами , что то же абсолютно легитимно." А вот что делали в Ичкерии украинские националистические батальоны УНА-УНСО и "Тризуб имени Степана Бандеры"? Сашка Билого, который Музычко, Вам напомнить? Или Диму Корчинского? Или переименование во Львове улицы национальной Гвардии имени Ивана Франко ( советской подпольной организации 1941-1944 годов, разгромленной СД ВМЕСТЕ с бандеровской СБУ? И не является ли участие ваших батальонов на стороне сепаратистов актом агрессии против России? А было это на 21 год раньше событий в Донбассе. На что теперь обижаетесь, тем более, что российских войск в Донбассе пока никто, даже прозападные ОБСЕ, ЦРУ и АНБ, пока не обнаружил. А вот в составе 30 ОМСБ есть полнокровная (150 рыл) рота французских наемников, а 93 ОМСБ называется польско-литовско-украинской потому, что в ней 20% поляков и 20% прибалтов.
                1. atalef
                  atalef April 18 2020 16: 34 New
                  -7
                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  А вот что делали в Ичкерии украинские националистические батальоны УНА-УНСО и "Тризуб имени Степана Бандеры"?

                  same . what the Chechens and others - such as volunteers - are doing in LDNR - wild geese, mercenaries - they do not care for whom and where to fight
                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  Sasha Bilogo, which is Muzychko, do you recall?

                  to me ? what for ?
                  I have the same Russian characters or Chechen or from any other country fighting for LDNR - 5 minutes of digging on the Internet - I dig up a ton.
                  There is such a sort of people - they will whip you with anything to justify their desire to shoot.

                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  Or the renaming in Lviv of the street of the Ivan Franko National Guard (the Soviet underground organization of 1941-1944, crushed by the SD TOGETHER with the Bandera SBU?

                  I was in Lviv last year.
                  Great service. cheap. everywhere spoke Russian, the wife of a friend (the second couple with us) with a star of David on his neck.
                  Everything was quiet. calmly, benevolently.
                  If not for the crown this year went again.
                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  And is the participation of your battalions on the side of the separatists an act of aggression against Russia?

                  ours - whose is it? And where does Russia?
                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  And it was 21 years earlier than the events in the Donbass

                  what are we talking about?
                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  What are you now offended by, especially since no one has yet discovered Russian troops in the Donbass, even the pro-Western OSCE, CIA and NSA.

                  Well, of course . the same miners - from the face and immediately to the artifacts. tanks, and hailstones with beeches.
                  They trained this underground.
                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  But as part of the 30 motorized infantry security forces there is a full-blooded (150 snouts) company of French mercenaries

                  mercenaries.
                  And you have everything local and for free?
                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  and 93 UMSB is called Polish-Lithuanian-Ukrainian because it contains 20% of Poles and 20% of the Baltic states.

                  so what ?
                  Ukraine as a state does not have the right to do this?
                  Are you a state?
                  no. point.
                  Therefore, for you there is a normal definition.
                  Separatists. illegal armed groups, etc. etc.
                  Call me.
                  1. Victorio
                    Victorio April 18 2020 20: 26 New
                    +1
                    Quote: atalef
                    I was in Lviv last year.
                    Great service

                    ===
                    understandably, had their own gesheft.

                    \\"Рано утром 30 июня 1941 года украинские националисты вывесили плакаты на досках объявлений и стенах зданий. Плакаты приветствовали немецкие войска и Степана Бандеру, которые освободят украинцев от власти евреев и НКВД. В заголовках были такие лозунги, как: "Разбей евреев и коммунистов" и "Да здравствует Степан Бандера, да здравствует Адольф Гитлер"…

                    "Евреи оставались в своих домах, не решаясь их покинуть. Необходимо было выманить их из их домов, и 1 июля 1941 года (...) на всех улицах были вывешены плакаты, призывающие всех немедленно отправиться на свои рабочие места в течение трех часов под страхом смерти (...) Люди, привыкшие к дисциплине, поспешили на фабрики и в учреждения. Никто не верил, что это была ловушка. На улицах украинские милиционеры, мобилизованные ночью, разыскивали евреев. Теперь население могло взбеситься: жертвы были на месте. Толпа на улицах скоро забыла о работе; было забавнее заняться евреями. Недалеко от того места, где я жил, на улице Сапиха (Sapieha Street) был воронка от бомбы, место, специально созданное для забавы с евреями. Местные евреи были пригнаны, чтобы заполнить воронку. Из окна моей квартиры я мог видеть в этом одном месте отражение тысячи других мест - действия зверской толпы. Старики, дети и женщины, были вынуждены под градом ударов вырывать брусчатку голыми руками и переносить грязь из одного места улицы в другое. Одна женщина была привязана к мужчине, работавшему рядом, и они были вынуждены бежать под ударами в разном направлении. Подросток упал в обморок от ударов, а других позвали похоронить предполагаемый труп живьем. В этом одном месте я видел четырех или пять убитых. Было задействовано около 60 человек.

                    Несмотря на варварство толпы на улице, жизнь продолжалась, как будто ничего не происходило. Улицы казались вполне нормальными, прерванными лишь краткими остановками прохожих, которые отворачивались и спокойно шли дальше: "Возмущение не выражалось ни единым словом. Если кто-то не одобрял этого, он быстро проходил мимо, играя недальновидно, делая вид, что не понимает, что происходит", - утверждает Якоб Герштенфельд-Мальтьель.\\
                  2. boris epstein
                    boris epstein April 19 2020 11: 35 New
                    +2
                    Все ответы-пацанские отмазки."...то же самое . что чеченцы и другие - типа добровольцы - делают в ЛДНР -- дикие гуси , наемники - им пофиг за кого и где воевать"
                    Do not equal volunteer units with full-fledged units. Two big differences, as they say in Odessa
                    "...мне ? зачем ?
                    у меня таких же российских персонажей или чеченских или из любой другой страны воюющих за ЛДНР -- 5 минут копания в рнете -- накопаю тонну."
                    Just don’t need to push us all together with the youths of the Gazovik Orenburg team and the Buryat equestrian divers. It happened before.
                    "Был во Львове в прошлом году.
                    Замечательный сервис . дёшево . везде говорил на русском , жена друга ( вторая пара с нами ) со звездой давида на шее."
                    The answer is generally left, it has nothing to do with the topic of my comment.
                    "...наших - это чьих ? И причем тут Россия ?"
                    Yours is Bandera. And if you live in Russia and drown for Bandera, the worse for you.
                    "ну конечно . это же шахтеры - с забоя и сразу к артам . танкам , и градам с Буками."
                    This is generally the limit. In Soviet times, 98% of men served. And Mikhail Tolstykh (Givi) once served in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And he is not alone.
                    "наёмников.
                    А у вас все местные и за бесплатно ?"
                    Again excuse. I served in the Soviet Army. Ryadovoy received 3.80, corporal 4.80, and so on. Officers received salaries and bonuses-field, for duty on the part and for the garrison, ration, for uniforms, for stars, for the position ... We are all soldiers , sergeants, warrant officers, officers that were also mercenaries
                    "...о чем речь ?"
                    It is about the fact that the Russian Federation is a federal state, and its parts have the right to secession. But this is not up to you, Bandera, but to the State Duma and the President of the Russian Federation. And the participation of your ORGANIZED battalions, and not individual mercenaries, is interference in the internal affairs of the Russian Federation. If your battalions try to fight in the United States for the independence of Texas in a week, the world will forget that there was such a state-Ukraine.
                    "Сепаратисты . незаконные вооруженные формирования итд итп.
                    Уж звиняйте."
                    I don’t call. Separatis are Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Ukraine, unilaterally violating the Constitution of the USSR, WITHOUT DECISION of the Supreme Council of the USSR, who left the Union.
                    1. Sergej1972
                      Sergej1972 April 22 2020 14: 54 New
                      +1
                      Only a small correction. The subjects of the Russian Federation, as well as the subjects of the United States, Brazil, India, Germany, Australia, Switzerland and the vast majority of other federations, do not have the right to withdraw. The territories of Ethiopia have the right to exit, but their territorial integrity is not guaranteed. That is, those parts of the Ethiopian subject that do not want to separate will remain in the country. Canada does not recognize the right to secession of provinces, but its authorities say they will not impede the secession of Quebec if most of the population there really wants to. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, the dissolution of the federation is theoretically allowed by mutual agreement of Bosniaks, local Serbs and local Croats. Finally, unitary Uzbekistan formally recognizes the right to secession of Karakalpakstan, which is impossible due to the predominance of the Uzbek population there. And that’s it.
                  3. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell April 21 2020 14: 40 New
                    0
                    Quote: atalef
                    I was in Lviv last year. Great service. cheap. spoke Russian everywhere

                    Touching, sheer splendor and ... Another example: a year 16, a plane flies from Britain to Lublin, full of Poles. The weather is rubbish, the plane has been in the waiting area for a long time ... The Poles began to ask the stewardesses: after all, if we go to the emergency, the captain will not go to Lviv? And I think they have a long experience good neighborly relations and they understand more tourists
                    1. Pete mitchell
                      Pete mitchell April 22 2020 00: 31 New
                      +1
                      Here, in this case, the question to the reporter: what did you not like? What did you disagree with?
          3. anjey
            anjey April 18 2020 13: 45 New
            +5
            Quote: atalef
            You brought the war to Ukraine, not Maidan.
            It was local on the drum.

            Лживый демагог,войну принесли американцы,а точнее Запад,со своим "Кольцом Анаконды",почему действительно не любят в Мире бедных евреев??? laughingThere are worthy people among you, sorry not the majority ......
            1. atalef
              atalef April 18 2020 13: 47 New
              -7
              Quote: anjey
              False demagogue, why really do not like poor Jews?

              we are not poor wink , and you didn’t answer a single question.
              nothing surprising.
              wink
              1. anjey
                anjey April 18 2020 15: 34 New
                +3
                There were, will be and are poor .. e. in .rei, myths and tales will not work here laughing
                1. atalef
                  atalef April 18 2020 16: 05 New
                  -8
                  Quote: anjey
                  There were, will be and are poor .. e. in .rei, myths and tales will not work here laughing

                  Of course there were, are and will be - but not all. wink
            2. atalef
              atalef April 18 2020 13: 49 New
              -8
              Quote: anjey
              There are worthy people among you, sorry not the majority ......

              Wasserman is probably especially close to you?
              So how is the reaction? Positive?
              1. anjey
                anjey April 18 2020 15: 28 New
                +5
                Me? More Girkin.
                1. atalef
                  atalef April 18 2020 16: 06 New
                  -7
                  Quote: atalef
                  Quote: anjey
                  There are worthy people among you, sorry not the majority ......

                  Wasserman is probably especially close to you?
                  So how is the reaction? Positive?

                  Quote: anjey
                  Me? More Girkin.

                  Shooters ??? yes not really belay
          4. Victorio
            Victorio April 18 2020 14: 27 New
            +3
            Quote: atalef
            You brought the war to Ukraine, not Maidan.
            It was local on the drum.

            ===
            from israel it is all visible
          5. serezhasoldatow
            serezhasoldatow April 18 2020 17: 11 New
            0
            And I thought where the virus came from. This truth is not treated.
      3. EvilLion
        EvilLion April 17 2020 08: 49 New
        +2
        Because you would later be the first to yell that what for these Kuyans to feed and why our soldiers die every week, if not daily, performing occupation functions in a cuckoo-ridden country, which the evil Putin did not let slip to Europe.

        In Crimea, initially there were about 20k people of Russian troops, with a critically high loyalty of the local population, including the Armed Forces, in which there were also plenty, if not most of the local.
        1. Bashkirkhan
          Bashkirkhan April 17 2020 10: 16 New
          +2
          That's it. Entering troops is a small part of success. It is necessary to keep and clean the territory, this implies the introduction of martial law, filtering the population, getting rid of everyone who can shoot in the back. An unambiguous mobilization is needed, since this direction will divert a lot of forces and it is necessary to block the likelihood of retaliatory actions by NATO countries like Poland. All this would cost Russia dearly.
      4. svoit
        svoit April 17 2020 12: 51 New
        0
        Quote: DMB 75
        some volunteers could take kuev at 14, but the team did not follow

        it’s not all the same, Putin watched the Olympics, but no one was going to do anything besides him, and while the Maidan militants were already fully formed and fighting in the east, they were still sleeping peacefully and hoping for Russia, we were not Serbs and Putin was not Yeltsin - they will not betray us.
        In principle, then to demolish all our resistance was not difficult. Why this was not done remains a mystery.

        Precisely because they still did not believe that Russia would not betray
        1. Usher
          Usher April 18 2020 07: 19 New
          -4
          and what betrayed?
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 April 18 2020 13: 09 New
            0
            Quote: Usher
            and what betrayed?

            Фактически да. "Так не доставайся же ты никому"-вот такая там сейчас ситуация.надо было либо брать либо не вмешиваться
        2. serezhasoldatow
          serezhasoldatow April 18 2020 17: 14 New
          -1
          So Putin warned them of the prematureness of radical action. Did not listen.
      5. Alex Nevs
        Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 04 New
        -1
        Не последовало команды...Мариуполь уже был окружен - бандерва драпала аж "слюни" в штанах текли. Ан нет-оставили. А потом и их кормить?!?!? Да и "Насильно мил не будешь". Тут так-выступил против бандитов-переворотчиков ,помощь подошла. А нет-то и помощи нет. Вяликия вальцмана вайска это вам не ЭТО - не пограбишь. А вообще преступников-переворотчиков надо судить. Но поздно поймут , когда увидят куда делась страна. Небытие оно и есть. Двух регионов то и нет!
      6. evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru
        evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru April 19 2020 12: 49 New
        +2
        No, dear DMB 75, some kind of special, intricacies of politics. Just then in 2014,. Once again, the West played out (,, bought ,,, ,, divorced ,, ...) ,, the great strategists and diplomats ,, RK (,, Russian Capitalist ,,). They were hinted that if they ,, moderate their appetites, and ,, calm down, ”with the Donbass and others, the“ People’s Republic of Moldova, ”the People’s People’s Republic, then recognition of Crimea will follow, sanctions will be symbolic, etc. etc. The guys ,, blurred out in a smile ,,, began to rub their pens with joy and closed the supply valve ... heat from ,, Russian Spring ,,.
        But the miracle did not happen. The Hydrogen Sulphide West has remained such, but the, figures, RK have remained, on beans,.
        In the West - ,, capitalism ,,, in the Republic of Kazakhstan - ,, capitalism ,,. The Republic of Kazakhstan is dependent on the West ... After all, for example, there are no banks of the Republic of Kazakhstan either in Novorossia or in the Crimea - “no way down”. ,, Uncle Sam ,, banned !,
        What can I say if, under the control of, the States of Ukraine pays 20 hryvnias for, a green candy wrapper, and, independent, the Republic of Kazakhstan dutifully spreads all 70 (!)?
        To understand the situation, you need to know that the occupation mark in 1941-43. It was equal in all about 10 Soviet rubles.
        Which exit? It was found by our ancestors 102 years ago. Only SOCIALISM, i.e. such an OPS that takes care of ALL social groups (classes). Only he is able to solve the accumulated problems in both Novorossia and Russia.
    2. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 17 2020 06: 34 New
      23
      Slavyansk and Kramatorsk: the beginning of a strange war

      At the expense of the strangeness of this war, I completely agree. The discrepancy is only in the dating.

      Странной война стала не после Славянска и Краматорска, а после подписания иезуитских "минских соглашений".
      1. depressant
        depressant April 17 2020 07: 38 New
        17
        I support, Insurgent!
        И спасибо за репортаж. Будто снова окунулась в то время -- каждую свободную минуту -- к "Вестям-24". Надежда! Она была. Минские соглашения -- глупость и предательство, своего рода подлое подписание бумаг в Беловежской пуще. Нас, русских, предали за мзду малую. Снова и снова жалкие ничтожества предали дело нескольких поколений наших предков.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine April 17 2020 08: 12 New
        +8
        Quote: Insurgent
        Странной война стала не после Славянска и Краматорска, а после подписания иезуитских "минских соглашений".

        Thank you, well done, I wrote everything correctly.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 17 2020 09: 54 New
          +6
          Вот бандерва разошлась... "С маху" минус более 1 500 пунктов laughing

          Slavyansk and the DNI, you will be across the throat, Chubato-Bandera diving ...

          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine April 17 2020 09: 59 New
            10
            Quote: Insurgent
            Slavyansk and the DNI, you will be across the throat, Chubato-Bandera diving ...

            Kiev 1946
          2. Victorio
            Victorio April 18 2020 14: 54 New
            -1
            Quote: Insurgent


            ===
            caricature of the top ten
          3. The comment was deleted.
      3. atalef
        atalef April 18 2020 09: 49 New
        -11
        Quote: Insurgent
        а после подписания иезуитских "минских соглашений".

        Big Brother just understood - the idea failed, the local population does not follow you, but it doesn’t work out to develop and retain territories.
        So they got it - a suitcase without a handle. It’s hard to drag - to drop it, it's a pity.
        Two bits of it is not clear why, with people who are hostages of an unnecessary idea, lies and geopolitics.
        1. CSKA
          CSKA April 18 2020 11: 35 New
          15
          Quote: atalef
          the local population does not follow you

          You won’t get tired of broadcasting for us.)))))) Enough to open your mouth for us.
          1. atalef
            atalef April 18 2020 12: 48 New
            -10
            Quote: CSKA
            Quote: atalef
            the local population does not follow you

            You won’t get tired of broadcasting for us.)))))) Enough to open your mouth for us.

            fact remains a fact.
            Somehow all of Ukraine is not torn to LDNR.
            Well, for all my many trips I haven’t heard from anyone - I would like to rush to live in the people's republics.
            By the way, with this you have the same camille
            according to numerous data, about 25% of the inhabitants of these republics left the LPR for permanent or temporary residence until 2014.
            They are coming from you, not to you.
            1. anjey
              anjey April 18 2020 13: 35 New
              +3
              Демагогия о "европейском рае" для отдельновзятой украины ,еще действует и пьянит многие чубатые головы, но правда жизни расставит все на места.....
              1. atalef
                atalef April 18 2020 13: 36 New
                -8
                Quote: anjey
                Demagogy about a European paradise for a separate Ukraine, still acts and intoxicates many chubat heads,

                Well, your demagogy about the People’s Republic will give them 100 handicap points.
                Quote: anjey
                but the truth of life will put everything in place ....

                You’ve been broadcasting it since 2014, so how?
                1. anjey
                  anjey April 18 2020 14: 11 New
                  +4
                  Quote: atalef
                  You’ve been broadcasting it since 2014, so how?
                  I’ve been on the site for 2 years, please be so kind as to what really happened in Krajen over the past 6 years ???
                  1. atalef
                    atalef April 18 2020 14: 16 New
                    -8
                    Quote: anjey
                    I’ve been on the site for 2 years, please be so kind and what 6 years

                    Little, however, you (it is not specifically you) therefore with a small letter.
                    This is the plural.
                    Quote: anjey
                    But what has happened in Krajn over the past 6 years?

                    Well, at least there were 2 times free and democratic elections.
                    What about you? as for 6 years and
                    Quote: anjey
                    what in 6 years in LDNR really positive happened?

                    wink
                    1. anjey
                      anjey April 18 2020 16: 16 New
                      +9
                      Я устал вам повторять об олигархических войнах ,до вас тяжело все доходит, если бы было время идеологий а именно как раньше ,большевики и капиталисты ,нацисты и коммунисты по разную линию фронта ,результат был бы конкретно предрешен победой более сильной стороны, здесь же ,конкретно на Донбассе, игра, (как ни цинично это звучит)на патриотизме народа и национального самоопределения ,олигархов ,сейчас сменилась политическим и идеологическим ступором - а что дальше? И выгодно и рентабельно воевать ,когда их Бабло обложили санкциями,тем более люди требуют народного самоуправления ,а им это надо?Русский мир? -Большая половина олигаторов нерусские ,так заглох проект Новороссия,так что мы в России здраво все оцениваем и без ваших "умничаний" из Хайфы laughingGo swimming in the Dead Sea and brainwash local salted fish laughing
                    2. anjey
                      anjey April 18 2020 16: 22 New
                      +6
                      Tell tales of shit democracy and elections to your Bibi laughing
                    3. anjey
                      anjey April 18 2020 17: 46 New
                      +5
                      To our oligators, the world of Western capital is much closer than the ideas of the people's republics, a wanderer from the lands of the Mediterranean laughing
                    4. Dart
                      Dart April 18 2020 19: 59 New
                      0
                      Chu, you’re like a jakob, drowning in a bandera ....! negative
            2. Igoresha
              Igoresha April 18 2020 17: 24 New
              0
              fact remains a fact.
              facts they are like a drawbar. in Lugansk school where my nieces went in 2019 I had to open an extra class; cars became about 75% of the pre-war traffic, 80% of which with LPR numbers and Russian.
        2. anjey
          anjey April 18 2020 13: 33 New
          +5
          Big brother is you about the USA for Ukraine, in the light of modernity ???? laughing For them, really, Krajina will become a suitcase without a handle, in vain they have started this project, will burn it and it will be an empty political zilch for them ....
          1. atalef
            atalef April 18 2020 13: 40 New
            -10
            Quote: anjey
            Big brother is you about the USA for Ukraine, in the light of modernity ????

            no, about LDNR for Russia
            Quote: anjey
            For them, really, Krajina will become a suitcase without a handle, in vain they have started this project, will burn it and they will be an empty political zilch.

            Ukraine will not fall apart and will not disappear with or without the United States.
            You all somehow transfer arrows to Ukraine, but what’s the matter with you?
            Can you cut the truth of the uterus or is it scary?
            About the elections, about the role of Russia (which is not a part of the conflict)
            About the miners who climbed out of the faces and immediately behind the levers of tanks
            About the change of heads of republics, about how field commanders were cleaned up.
            About how 30% of the population escaped.
            answer at least one question?
            1. anjey
              anjey April 18 2020 14: 20 New
              +5
              I have answered everything below, I believe that this is all the modern geopolitical wars of the World oligarchs for raw materials, territories and markets where nationalism, Nazism, Russophobia, radical Islam, patriotism, Zionism and anti-Semitism and socialist-popular aspirations are used as a driving force for conflicts, to achieve certain results, this driving and ideologically charged force turns into cannon fodder and is exterminated, and the Ideology of the Bubble is put at the forefront, something like this.
              1. atalef
                atalef April 18 2020 14: 23 New
                -9
                Quote: anjey
                I answered everything below

                didn't answer anything.
                where's the answer
                Quote: atalef
                Can you cut the truth of the uterus or is it scary?
                About the elections, about the role of Russia (which is not a part of the conflict)
                About the miners who climbed out of the faces and immediately behind the levers of tanks
                About the change of heads of republics, about how field commanders were cleaned up.
                About how 30% of the population escaped.
                answer at least one question?

                Quote: anjey
                I believe that this is all the modern geopolitical wars of world oligarchs over raw materials, territories and markets

                Is this the type of answer?
                1. anjey
                  anjey April 18 2020 14: 43 New
                  +4
                  Have you completely read it? Everything about everything is clear there, you perceive only the torn context laughing ? If it didn't work out, about stripping and everything else ...
                2. anjey
                  anjey April 18 2020 14: 45 New
                  +4
                  I am surprised at you. Type yes.
            2. anjey
              anjey April 18 2020 14: 26 New
              +5
              Not everything suits me in Russia, but I'm proud of her, and believe me, my dear, there is something laughing
              1. atalef
                atalef April 18 2020 14: 27 New
                -6
                Quote: anjey
                Not everything suits me in Russia, but I'm proud of her, and believe me, my dear, there is something laughing

                Well, great, but what does it have to do with it?
                Quote: atalef
                You all somehow transfer arrows to Ukraine, but what’s the matter with you?
                Can you cut the truth of the uterus or is it scary?
                About the elections, about the role of Russia (which is not a part of the conflict)
                About the miners who climbed out of the faces and immediately behind the levers of tanks
                About the change of heads of republics, about how field commanders were cleaned up.
                About how 30% of the population escaped.
                answer at least one question?
                1. anjey
                  anjey April 18 2020 14: 37 New
                  +4
                  Я думаю,что у вас в Израиле тоже не рай и про выборы ,коррупцию,про смену глав и про военные конфликты и финансирование и управление из вне и про обеднение населения и даже про коронавирус и заваренные храмы ортодоксов и сколько вас разбежалось уже из Израиля,негатива хватит с лихвой если копать вашу "помойку",мне это сейчас в данной теме не интересно.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef April 18 2020 16: 19 New
                    -8
                    Quote: anjey
                    I think that you have no paradise in Israel either

                    NO PARADISE ANYWHERE
                    Quote: anjey
                    and about the elections

                    what about the elections?
                    Quote: anjey
                    corruption

                    there is corruption everywhere, but even prime ministers are being jailed for this
                    Quote: anjey
                    and management from outside

                    where is it from
                    Quote: anjey
                    and brewed orthodox temples

                    we have no temples.
                    learn materiel.
                    A synagogue is a house of worship \ room and nothing more.

                    Quote: anjey
                    and how many of you have already fled from Israel

                    Well, this can be seen by population growth.
                    wink

                    Quote: anjey
                    негатива хватит с лихвой если копать вашу "помойку",

                    there is a negative everywhere, but the question was about the role of Russia and your attitude to the garbage can of Ukraine and the light elves of LDNR
                    Quote: anjey
                    I’m not interested in this topic right now.

                    it’s clear that I didn’t answer the questions, I left the topic - it’s ordinary.
        3. Alex Nevs
          Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 08 New
          0
          вальцману спасибо скажи, можешь и в шляпу. А впереди Очень много "интересного" и Очень надолго. вы еще непоняли а он вас по самые нихачу поимел ибо скакать не перескакать.
    3. Kronos
      Kronos April 17 2020 11: 09 New
      +6
      No, everything was started so that Crimea would not be lost. In the Baltic countries, the Russian-speaking population also suffers, but the regions of Russia do not care
      1. CSKA
        CSKA April 17 2020 13: 45 New
        +4
        Quote: Kronos
        No, everything was started so that Crimea would not be lost. In the Baltic countries, the Russian-speaking population also suffers, but the regions of Russia do not care

        And what should Russia do? Due to the fact that the Russian is not the second state in the Baltic States to start a war with NATO countries? Eco is simple for you.
        1. Kronos
          Kronos April 17 2020 13: 50 New
          +8
          There Russians are not citizens, the ban on teaching in Russian and the closure of such schools and much more. What they are doing in Ukraine and against which everything supposedly started
          1. CSKA
            CSKA April 18 2020 11: 27 New
            +3
            Quote: Kronos
            There Russians are not citizens, the prohibition of teaching in Russian and the closure of such schools and much more

            You enlightened me straight. I repeat once again. What do you propose to do? Who the hell do you persecute the government that he does not care about Russian-speakers in the Baltic states? You are so smart, let's advise the authorities what they need to do with the Baltic countries.
            Quote: Kronos
            What they are doing in Ukraine and against which everything supposedly started

            Oh, you don’t just have to talk against where it all supposedly started. You’re kind of from the Donbass, so I’ll tell you a secret too, and at least do not tell me that the point is directly in the language. And who started? RF? No, we started.
            1. Kronos
              Kronos April 18 2020 11: 47 New
              +4
              What many countries do is support their citizens abroad. Financially, legally protecting their rights, active programs for returning home are not just profanities as they are now but existing ones
              1. CSKA
                CSKA April 18 2020 13: 11 New
                +4
                Quote: Kronos
                What many countries do is support their citizens abroad. Financially, legally protecting their rights, active programs for returning home are not just profanities as they are now but existing ones

                Do you even understand what you wrote? What Russian-speaking residents of the Baltic citizens of the Russian Federation?
                1. Kronos
                  Kronos April 18 2020 13: 19 New
                  +2
                  You probably, but all self-respecting countries support their diasporas abroad. This is only in Russia and Ukraine.
                  1. CSKA
                    CSKA April 18 2020 13: 56 New
                    +6
                    Quote: Kronos
                    You probably, but all self-respecting countries support their diasporas abroad. This is only in Russia and Ukraine.

                    Kronos you no longer know what to write. Either citizens are protected by you, then the diaspora. How does China support its diaspora in the USA? Give an example of the support of your diaspora by any state. And most importantly, you have not answered the question. What does the Russian Federation need to do to protect the rights of the Russian-speaking population in the Baltic states? Latvia adopts anti-democratic laws. What should Russia do? You write to help financially and legally.)))))) Give out money?)))) To sue Latvia for passing laws in your country?))))))
                    1. Kronos
                      Kronos April 18 2020 16: 25 New
                      -2
                      Привожу когда в Укриане приняли закон о языке то Венгрия- Как известно, Венгрия также недовольна принятым законом об образовании и обвинила Украину в несоблюдении прав меньшинств и объявила о блокаде европейских и евроатлантических стремлений Украины. Будапешт продолжает блокировать все усилия Украины относительно взаимодействия с НАТО, несмотря на международное давление на страну. Он считает, что это давление является несправедливым ввиду того, что Украина "несет ответственность за сложившуюся ситуацию". В то же время он пообещал отменить вето, "если Киев восстановит права венгров".
                      1. CSKA
                        CSKA April 23 2020 12: 51 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kronos
                        I quote

                        Hungary has leverage. And do you seriously believe that if the EU and NATO really wanted to accept Ukraine, would they not force Hungary? It's just that no one needs Ukraine in the EU.
                      2. Kronos
                        Kronos April 23 2020 12: 59 New
                        0
                        There was a question to give an example, I brought a wiggled, it’s not something that does not count. There are many other ways of support that countries provide - holding national holidays, active assistance of embassies in solving citizens' problems, legal services, and in Russian embassies they mostly beat the bucks and send complaints of protest
                      3. CSKA
                        CSKA April 24 2020 13: 23 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kronos
                        There are many other ways that countries provide support - holding national holidays

                        Who prevents Russian-speaking residents from spending holidays? For this, help from the Russian Federation is needed?
                        Quote: Kronos
                        active assistance of embassies in solving problems of citizens

                        Help to citizens of another state in what? In legal services? Well, they served more than once in the EU, so what? Did the EU react to this somehow?
                        This conversation is not about anything. Unfortunately, the RF cannot help them in any way except by direct invasion. You can write to the EU courts as much as you like, they can’t oblige the Baltic states, and they don’t want to.
                2. Pete mitchell
                  Pete mitchell April 21 2020 15: 12 New
                  +2
                  Quote: CSKA
                  What the RF needs to do to protect the rights of the Russian-speaking population in the Baltic states

                  If you will allow me, I will quote Heinrich Borovik, he was invited to the Baltic Forum at the end of the millennium - a brawl about everything the Baltic Sea countries. He was asked at a press conference: what would you recommend to a Russian-speaking person in Latvia to protect their rights? Borovik replied: you want to influence the life of the country: get citizenship, the mechanism was and is, organize parties, go to power and thus influence politics. Do not rely on outside support, let alone radicals / populists - they work for each other: Latvian help Russian; Russian Latvian: there will be no Russian-speaking problem - they will disappear because they cannot solve real problems.
                  Unfortunately, he was not heard, but the thought is sensible in my opinion.
                  PS I can’t provide any link: then there were no such opportunities, and later I could not find it.
                  1. CSKA
                    CSKA April 23 2020 12: 53 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    If I may, I will quote the words of Heinrich Borovik

                    I basically agree with him. The Russian Federation has no leverage on the Baltic states. Only Russian-speaking residents of the Baltic countries have a way out, but they do almost nothing. They appealed to the European courts, no one helped them.
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    radicals / populists - they work for each other: Latvian help Russian

                    I’m not so sure about that.
                  2. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell April 23 2020 16: 32 New
                    +1
                    Quote: CSKA
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    radicals / populists - they work for each other: Latvian help Russian

                    I’m not so sure about that.

                    I probably did not quite correctly formulate: they pour water on each other's mills. Then a wave of stocks swept by the Russian Embassy in Riga; the LR embassy thrown by eggs .... neither of them can solve real problems: the problems of Russian speakers will not be - they will have to disappear. Therefore, the whistle-blower around this issue by the radicals / populists.
                    Quote: CSKA
                    The Russian Federation has no leverage on the Baltic states ..

                    And here I do not agree with you: there is always an economy, because there is no getting away from geography. Which the Russian Federation and used in the end. If there was a desire to play for a long time, they would have raised a whole generation of politically active youth. But instead they put on former activists with a mentality of petty crooks
                  3. CSKA
                    CSKA April 24 2020 13: 26 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    And here I do not agree with you: there is always an economy, because there is no getting away from geography. Which the Russian Federation and used in the end.

                    I agree. This is done.
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    If there was a desire to play for a long time, they would have raised a whole generation of politically active youth.

                    But this is not realistic to do unfortunately. To do this, you need to build Russian schools, which are banned and conduct an information war by creating TV channels and resources in the Baltic states, but this is also prohibited.
                  4. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell April 24 2020 13: 32 New
                    +1
                    Let's just say: it was necessary to do what no one did. Retirees are supported - which of course is very pleasant for them. But no one really worked with youth: we have what we have.
                    The time will come and this work will have to be done for anyone - you can’t get anywhere from geography
          2. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 April 22 2020 15: 13 New
            +1
            Насчёт КНР Вы не правы. Поддержка диаспоры, "хуацяо" даже в официальной повестке сессий ВСНП значится. Только надо учитывать, что есть её антикоммунистическая, протайваньская часть. Им помощь не оказывается. Хотя точнее, чаще обсуждается помощь самой диаспоры КНР, ибо там много богатых людей-патриотов Китая. В составе ПК НПКСК КНР представлены и зарубежные китайцы.
            1. CSKA
              CSKA April 23 2020 12: 56 New
              +2
              Quote: Sergej1972
              Насчёт КНР Вы не правы. Поддержка диаспоры, "хуацяо" даже в официальной повестке сессий ВСНП значится. Только надо учитывать, что есть её антикоммунистическая, протайваньская часть. Им помощь не оказывается. Хотя точнее, чаще обсуждается помощь самой диаспоры КНР, ибо там много богатых людей-патриотов Китая. В составе ПК НПКСК КНР представлены и зарубежные китайцы.

              I hear it for the first time. Imagine if Communist China finances NGOs in the USA. Immediately a foreign agent would have done. If not difficult, give examples.
  2. Normal ok
    Normal ok April 19 2020 10: 13 New
    -2
    Quote: CSKA
    . And who started? RF? No, we started.

    Как выше написал Anjei, начали все это на Донбассе местные олигархи. Они разыгрывали карту сепаратизма, чтобы защитить от днепропетровских олигархов "непосильно нажитое ". Точно так же как делали это в 2005г в Северодонецке. Но тут вмешалась Россия со своими интересами. И понеслось... А местное население никто никогда в расчет не брал. Вас просто развели красивыми лозунгами. А признаться в этом, - гордость не позволяет.
    1. CSKA
      CSKA April 23 2020 13: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Normal ok
      As Anjei wrote above, local oligarchs began all this in the Donbass.

      You do not own the information at all. Akhmetov immediately after the events in the Crimea, began to speak out that the type must remain in the dill. And Taruta immediately made the governor and began to build a wall. And after he escaped to Kiev, he began to broadcast about the need to drown everyone in the blood. And what is it that the Dnipropetrovsk oligarchs did not take away the business of Akhmetov and Taruta in other areas?
      Quote: Normal ok
      And nobody ever took the local population into account.

      Well, of course. Therefore, it is the local population that helps the Russian Federation. If you didn’t take the Russian Federation into account, then you would send troops.
      Quote: Normal ok
      You just lit up beautiful slogans

      Well, what are the slogans?
  • atalef
    atalef April 18 2020 12: 49 New
    -7
    Quote: Kronos
    There Russians are not citizens, the prohibition of teaching in Russian and the closure of such schools

    Well, in LDNR the same Ukrainian was banned and schools were closed.
    wink
    1. Kronos
      Kronos April 18 2020 12: 51 New
      +2
      In response to similar steps in Ukraine
      1. atalef
        atalef April 18 2020 12: 54 New
        -4
        Quote: Kronos
        In response to similar steps in Ukraine

        Smart
        i.e. why not compete with Ukraine in terms of stupidity?
        Ummmm?
        But now how do they blame them for segregation by language?
        laughing
        like, well, you, we are such stupid people as you are, only we have a popular state.
        .... in which there is no place for Ukrainian speakers laughing laughing
    2. Igoresha
      Igoresha April 18 2020 17: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: atalef
      Quote: Kronos
      There Russians are not citizens, the prohibition of teaching in Russian and the closure of such schools

      Well, in LDNR the same Ukrainian was banned and schools were closed.
      wink
      nonsense, nephews learn Ukrainian, 1 class. how do you all know only))
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 April 18 2020 13: 17 New
    -2
    Quote: Kronos
    There Russians are not citizens

    So something is not visible wanting to come home
    1. Victorio
      Victorio April 18 2020 15: 12 New
      0
      Quote: Pilat2009
      Quote: Kronos
      There Russians are not citizens

      So something is not visible wanting to come home

      ===
      Those who wish were, are and will be, only not many can move for various reasons, including economic reasons. and with the new generation there is a separation, separation from the roots / common. 15-20 years ago, a lot of graduates of (Russian-speaking) schools saw and it was not averse to continue their education in Russia, it would have been necessary to support and stimulate it. and only then / now, with the entry of the Baltic countries into the EU and the opening of the labor market there, Russian youth reached west.
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 April 18 2020 16: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: Victorio
        Russian youth reached west

        А кто в этом виноват то?Молодежи нафиг не нужны все эти лозунги типа "у нас свой,особый от всех путь".Если правящая элита живет и хранит деньги за границей то почему молодежь должна здесь сидеть?
        1. Victorio
          Victorio April 18 2020 19: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: Pilat2009
          Quote: Victorio
          Russian youth reached west

          А кто в этом виноват то?Молодежи нафиг не нужны все эти лозунги типа "у нас свой,особый от всех путь".Если правящая элита живет и хранит деньги за границей то почему молодежь должна здесь сидеть?

          ===
          I wrote to you about Russian youth from the Baltic states, and also about the fact that she is moving away from Russia, unfortunately
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 April 19 2020 06: 29 New
            0
            Quote: Victorio
            I wrote to you about Russian youth from the Baltic states, and also about the fact that she is moving away from Russia, unfortunately

            And I wrote about generally Russian youth
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 April 22 2020 15: 15 New
        0
        Some do not go out of principle, because for them it is their native land.
  • atalef
    atalef April 18 2020 11: 39 New
    -6
    Quote: Kronos
    No, everything was started so as not to lose Crimea

    A strange substitution of concepts - not to lose or take away?
    Crimea as harm was located on the territory of Ukraine within the borders of the state recognized by both the international community and Russia.

    Quote: Kronos
    In the Baltic countries, the Russian-speaking population also suffers, but the regions of Russia do not care

    The Russian-speaking population can safely return to their historical homeland, but for some reason, the numbers say something else
    more Russians come to the Baltic than return from Russia to Russia
    1. Kronos
      Kronos April 18 2020 11: 47 New
      -3
      Crimea should be part of the New Union and not be Ukrainian or Russian
      1. atalef
        atalef April 18 2020 12: 02 New
        -5
        Quote: Kronos
        Crimea should be part of the New Union

        and what kind of beast is this unknown to science?
        Quote: Kronos
        and not be Ukrainian or Russian

        And whose new union is whose?
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 April 22 2020 15: 20 New
        0
        No, he must be exactly Russian, even in the new union, if it is created, the vast majority of the inhabitants of its Great Russians. No need to repeat the mistakes of the Bolsheviks and the USSR and give territories with a predominant Great Russian population.
    2. Victorio
      Victorio April 18 2020 19: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: atalef
      Quote: Kronos
      No, everything was started so as not to lose Crimea

      A strange substitution of concepts - not to lose or take away?
      Crimea as harm was located on the territory of Ukraine within the borders of the state recognized by both the international community and Russia.

      Quote: Kronos
      In the Baltic countries, the Russian-speaking population also suffers, but the regions of Russia do not care

      The Russian-speaking population can safely return to their historical homeland, but for some reason, the numbers say something else
      more Russians come to the Baltic than return from Russia to Russia

      ===
      doubt it.
      2019 in Latvia
      - "На втором месте оказалась Россия – из нее в страну приехали с визитом 88,6 тысяч человек".
      - "Из Латвии в РФ в 2019 году с деловыми визитами приехали 145 712 человек"
      I think that in Lithuania and Estonia the picture is something like this.
      and permanently to the Baltic states, so this is for the purpose of buying a relatively cheap residence
  • Alex Nevs
    Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 09 New
    -2
    And choose pro-European pro-European. So that.
  • Whitesnow
    Whitesnow April 17 2020 19: 18 New
    +2
    Do not drive. In the SBU and APU Russian-speaking, no matter how half. Yes, and in the national battalions enough. So songs about the Russian world are just songs. By the way, the first and second post-comedian freaks as Ukrainian Presidents were taught already at a new job.
  • atalef
    atalef April 18 2020 09: 41 New
    -9
    Quote: military_cat
    And the Russian-speaking population, with whom the junta has the opportunity now to do anything - is it also purely symbolic?

    go to the site of Slavyansk.
    https://slavdelo.dn.ua/
    everything is in Russian.
    Is it strange?
    Quote: military_cat
    Is it not for the sake of his defense that, in principle, everything was started?

    And what about the other Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine?
    Has everyone been cut out yet?
    In your opinion they should have been cut across Ukraine.
  • Mitroha
    Mitroha April 17 2020 05: 44 New
    +3
    Thank you for the interesting story. Although the confusion is a little confusing. Write more, I think those events are interesting and close to many.
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich April 17 2020 06: 33 New
    10
    I do not understand the intricacies of politics, military strategy. But I am sure of one thing - honor and praise to the people of Donbass!
    1. Lelek
      Lelek April 17 2020 14: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich

      hi
      Кроме почестей надо бы что-то посущественней. Юсин предлагает ввести российские войска на территории ЛДНР и организовать там базы, ссылаясь на то, что санкции так санкциями и останутся и что 2/3 населения республик - российские граждане с российскими же паспортами. Предложение в принципе правильное, но... . Но в начале должны пройти выборы в республиках, должны быть проведены референдумы о присоединении к России, должны быть подписаны договоры и прочие системообразующие документы и вот тогда ... . Но есть несколько "но". Их мы на ВО многократно обмусоливали. Как поступят РФ и ЛДНР гадать не буду.
      1. major147
        major147 April 17 2020 21: 47 New
        +5
        Quote: Lelek
        to introduce Russian troops on the territory of LDNR

        Если Киев похоронит "Минск" (а всё к тому идёт) и будет принято решение расширить территорию ЛДНР до административных границ, то в этом будет напрямую обвинена Россия + новые санкции. Проще помогать негласно, а уж после выхода ЛДНР на адм. границы нужно признавать ЛДНР.
        1. atalef
          atalef April 18 2020 09: 52 New
          -5
          Quote: major147
          . It is easier to help behind the scenes, and only after LDNR reaches the adm. borders need to recognize LDNR.

          And why are administrative boundaries so important?
          Or is the Russian world spreading exclusively to the limit of administrative boundaries?
          1. major147
            major147 April 18 2020 10: 05 New
            +3
            Quote: atalef
            And why are administrative boundaries so important?

            Question to the administration of LDNR.
          2. boris epstein
            boris epstein April 18 2020 11: 26 New
            +3
            Because residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions participated in the referendum on separation from Ukraine IN the ADMINISTRATIVE borders of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. And Kuev admits that even today, the majority of the population of the sub-Ukrainian Donbass hate anti-Russian and anti-Soviet Ukraine.
            1. atalef
              atalef April 18 2020 11: 31 New
              -6
              Quote: Boris Epstein
              Because residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions participated in the referendum on separation from Ukraine IN the ADMINISTRATIVE borders of Donetsk and Lugansk regions

              Seriously ?
              When?
              Just the same in all areas of the region?
              And what legal force does he have?
              Quote: Boris Epstein
              And Kuev admits that even today, the majority of the population of the sub-Ukrainian Donbass hate anti-Russian and anti-Soviet Ukraine.

              And why then there will not be free elections?
              1. boris epstein
                boris epstein April 18 2020 11: 48 New
                +5
                Ну балдею я от троллей.Референдум прошел в апреле 2014 года ВО ВСЕХ городах и районах Донецкой и Луганской областей.Явка было огромная. На референдуме БЫЛИ представители ЕС и он признан состоявшимся. А теперь ответный вопрос. Какие "свободные" и от чего "свободные" выборы, если задолго до 2014 года Украина запретила КПУ, СПУ, ПСПУ, КПУ(о)?Напомню, наибольшее количество голосов этим партиям до их запрета давали им Донецкая, Луганская и Харьковская области.
                1. atalef
                  atalef April 18 2020 11: 59 New
                  -6
                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  Well, I'm bastard from the trolls. The referendum was held in April 2014 in ALL cities and regions of Donetsk and Lugansk regions

                  Do not lie
                  The referendum on self-determination of the Donetsk People's Republic - a universal vote held on May 11, 2014 by the authorities of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic in a number of districts and cities of Donetsk regionafter which, on May 12, the DPR authorities declared sovereignty and expressed a desire to join Russia [3], as well as to unite with the Luhansk People's Republic in Novorossia [4].

                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  . There were EU representatives at the referendum and it was declared valid.

                  you're lying again
                  On May 12, 2014, in an interview with the Kommersant newspaper, Russian President’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov said that Vladimir Putin would voice his views on the referenda after their official results were announced [65]. Then the presidential press service said that “Moscow respects the will of the population of Donetsk and Lugansk regions. [11]

                  According to the representative of the US State Department, Jen Psaki, all regional referenda in Ukraine are illegal and “false” [7], this step "leads to a split and unrest [6]."

                  OSCE Chairman and President Didier Burkhalter called the vote “illegal” [10].

                  Yoshihide Suga, Secretary General of the Government of Japan, said that the referendum held on May 11 in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine lacked democratic legitimacy [66].

                  British Foreign Secretary William Hague said that the results of the Eurovision song contest deserve more trust and significance than the results of a referendum in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine [67].

                  This referendum is not something that the EU. Yes, the Russian Federation did not recognize.

                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  Какие "свободные" и от чего "свободные" выборы, если задолго до 2014 года Украина запретила КПУ, СПУ, ПСПУ, КПУ

                  in every country there are parties and movements that are not eligible for elections.
                  weird? Gubarev and Olot in the DPR had no supporters?
                  В ДНР партию Губарева и "Оплот" не допустили к "выборам"
                  Представители так называемой ЦИК отказали в регистрации партии "Новороссия" и "Оплот"


                  Quote: Boris Epstein
                  Let me remind you that the largest number of votes for these parties before their ban was given to them by the Donetsk, Lugansk and Kharkov regions.

                  Well, how many of their representatives were in the parliament before the ban?
                  The next question is i.e. do you expect that as a result of free elections in LDNR how many commies will take seats?
        2. Alex Nevs
          Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 12 New
          -1
          ЛДНР мало. Маловато будет. Маловато. Еще половину 404 по меньшей надо будет присоединять к ЛДНР. А вообще "мелкий винегрет" аки Югославия лучше. Гемору меньше-управлять легче.
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 April 22 2020 15: 24 New
            0
            I also think that neither too small nor too large subjects are needed.
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins April 17 2020 06: 48 New
    -11
    A story is a picture, one of many. The author described what he saw. Sometimes commanders do not immediately see the whole picture, but what happened ...
    Умышленно или нет, но Егор "обрезал" начало всего этого. А без причин... Это как объяснять алгебру, не дав выучить таблицу умножения...
    Мног чего "ломается" в понимании, если "опускать", "опускать" и "опускать"... Так можно и Великую Отечественную к штурму Берлина свести.
    Почему не стреляли из артиллерии по Славянску и Краматорске? Потому что оттуда не вели огонь, значит и ответа была не нужна. Это не мои доводы - военных. Правда укроповских, которым опять же по логике только и дай возможность из гаубиц по кварталам мирным палить. Периодически наталкиваюсь на ролики нынешней мирной жизни этих городов. Счастливые лица, радостные. Детишки, молодые мамы. И в душе они, наверное рады, что у Стрелкова тогда не "нашлось"дивизиона "градов" из которого он мог бы шарахнуть по Карачун.
    And later we found, and we look at the video and photos of Donetsk, Gorlovka, Debaltseve ...
    1. 72jora72
      72jora72 April 17 2020 07: 00 New
      16
      Why didn’t they shoot artillery at Slavyansk and Kramatorsk?
      And with what fright do you think that art did not shoot at positions in Sloаvyansk ??
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins April 17 2020 07: 17 New
        -8
        According to the author. Well, if you have other data, then why not resent, do not write a refutation, do not upload a photo?
        1. 72jora72
          72jora72 April 17 2020 07: 21 New
          +7
          According to the author. Well, if you have other data, then why not resent, do not write a refutation, do not upload a photo?
          Photos and everything else was enough in the 14-15 years, this time began the period of myth-making, when each person describes the same event in completely different ways (this is a property of the human psyche, unfortunately).
          1. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins April 17 2020 07: 39 New
            -9
            А сейчас эти фото из сети удалили? А по поводу мифотворчества... Так я и "распятого мальчика" помню, и "снигирей"...
            This war should not be a priori! Even in thoughts! But someone very clever came up with lines that she had been burning for six years.
            1. 72jora72
              72jora72 April 17 2020 07: 52 New
              10
              Так я и "распятого мальчика" помню, и "снигирей"...
              А я помню как рубили кисти рук нашим пленным, а помимо "фейковых мальчиков" было такое количество ужасов что Вы и представить себе не можете.....
              1. Insurgent
                Insurgent April 17 2020 10: 24 New
                +7
                Quote: 72jora72
                And I remember how the hands of our prisoners were chopped

                Honestly, I didn’t hear about the hands cut off, but with the militia we’ll awaken some time in captivity at the national battalion, I had to intersect, chopped off on the right hand thumb and forefinger.
                However, he is still fighting.
                1. Vladimir61
                  Vladimir61 April 17 2020 13: 03 New
                  0
                  Quote: Insurgent
                  About hands chopped off, to be honest I have not heard ...

                  Yes there was a post on facebook
                  1. Insurgent
                    Insurgent April 17 2020 13: 12 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Vladimir61
                    Yes there was a post on facebook

                    Sorry, but the facebook and other hard-to-check resources are not a source of reliable information for me.

                    Do you remember this mocking fake?



                    Eventually :
                    Former pornstar Sasha Gray, who recently went on a “retirement,” has denied reports that she died during the hostilities in the Donbass.

                    On her Twitter, the actress expressed bewilderment in connection with conversations that she allegedly worked as a nurse for militias and was brutally killed by Ukrainian security forces. Sasha Gray noticed that earlier she was criticized for sympathy for Kiev.


                    https://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1323817/
                    1. Vladimir61
                      Vladimir61 April 17 2020 18: 12 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Insurgent
                      Sorry, but the facebook and other hard-to-check resources are not a source of reliable information for me.
                      Я привел пост "хероя"! Было интервью на укро ТВ и обсуждение на их ТВ-шоу.
                      What you brought is just a fake. Such sites and pages of couch commanders, collectors (thieves and scammers) of assistance to the Donbass and the militia, fake volunteer recruiting points and others, were and are now full. In addition to coming from patriots, the state propaganda machine, including special centers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Armed Forces.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                    3. 72jora72
                      72jora72 April 18 2020 06: 12 New
                      0
                      Вот ссылка по ребятам из "Призрака" , там потом патологоанатом целый список повреждений определил(отрубленные кисти, отрезанная голова, и тд). Это из того что на в скидку вспомнил.
              2. Normal ok
                Normal ok April 19 2020 10: 50 New
                -4
                Quote: 72jora72
                Так я и "распятого мальчика" помню, и "снигирей"...
                А я помню как рубили кисти рук нашим пленным, а помимо "фейковых мальчиков" было такое количество ужасов что Вы и представить себе не можете.....

                "Я помню" - это не аргумент. Фото/видео, - вот это аргумент. Так вот видео издевательство над ВСУ-шниками с гордостью выкладывали сами днр-овцы. Да и вагнеровцы, которые тоже засветились на Донбассе, как показало недавнее видео из Сирии тоже не прочь развлечься пытками.
            2. Insurgent
              Insurgent April 17 2020 08: 33 New
              +8
              Quote: Leader of the Redskins
              This war should not be a priori! Even in thoughts! But someone very clever came up with lines that she had been burning for six years.

              With this, I can not disagree.
              MoreoverI’ll add - Maidan should not have happened, and Ukraine should have remained friendly to Russia, and Bandera should have been in the dustbin of history and not in power ...

              But someone is very smart, the terrier already in ex-Ukraine did all this so that the war was ...

              They imposed a war on us? No problem !

              FROM THE SWORD AND KILL! yes
              1. Avior
                Avior April 17 2020 09: 28 New
                -1
                sorry, but how do you feel about Yanukovych?
                1. Insurgent
                  Insurgent April 17 2020 09: 32 New
                  14
                  Quote: Avior
                  sorry, but how do you feel about Yanukovych?

                  As a coward who betrayed the Donbass, and a state criminal, as a result of inaction of which the Bandera junta reigned in Ukraine.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior April 17 2020 09: 36 New
                    -2
                    And before that, to all these Maidan?
                    1. Insurgent
                      Insurgent April 17 2020 09: 46 New
                      +8
                      Quote: Avior
                      And before that, to all these Maidan?

                      Скажу прямо. Если бы он "дотянул" до очередных выборов,то я лично за него не голосовал бы.
                      The expectations of the Russian-speaking Donbass were too deceived by his promises of rapprochement with the Russian Federation, and he began to excessively zealously doiban him not belonging, and state affairs were launched ...
                      1. Avior
                        Avior April 17 2020 11: 22 New
                        +3
                        why am I asking.
                        I’m sure that in the next election Yanukovych would organize everything so that the choice was between him and some kind of nationalist, no one would just refuse the government, and you would go to vote for him as cute as others.
                        This was all built on.
                        Moreover, if the nationalists started a booze in the elections, you and not only you and other Russians would go to defend him, even if he did not suit you.
                        And the question is - if Yanukovych did not suit anyone, how did it happen that the nationalists seized the initiative to replace him?
                        What other suitable pro-Russian politicians were not?
                        After all, everything could have gone differently, if it had not been for Yanukovych, who was not needed by anyone, another pro-Russian, and not Turchinov and Poroshenko, could have appeared in his place.
                        I ask myself, and I don’t know the answer ...
                      2. Insurgent
                        Insurgent April 17 2020 11: 32 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Avior
                        And the question is - if Yanukovych did not suit anyone, how did it happen that the nationalists seized the initiative to replace him?
                        What other suitable pro-Russian politicians were not?

                        And here is the answer that everyone knows:
                        The Natsik initiative was initiated (sorry pun wassat ) from abroad, we were not preparing for something like that, and were waiting for the elections, which were to be held in less than a year.
                      3. Avior
                        Avior April 17 2020 12: 29 New
                        0
                        The answer is clear, just to wait for the elections, just to come and vote under Yanukovych for his change was more than naive, in my opinion, for the reason I wrote above, it would be a choice between Yanukovych and someone from the nationalists, ideally for Yanukovych, with some sort of Tyagnibok or the same.
                        That is, Yanukovych without a choice
                        hi
                      4. atalef
                        atalef April 18 2020 09: 58 New
                        -8
                        Quote: Insurgent
                        The Natsik initiative was initiated (sorry-pun) from abroad,

                        Girkin and Co. came from abroad.
                        Or is it local? wink
                      5. Insurgent
                        Insurgent April 18 2020 10: 01 New
                        +2
                        Quote: atalef
                        Girkin and Co. came from abroad.
                        Or is it local?

                        As a response to a coup d'état sponsored and planned from the USA yes

                        Chicken is not a bird, Moscow is not abroad tongue
                      6. atalef
                        atalef April 18 2020 10: 26 New
                        -7
                        Quote: Insurgent
                        As a response to a coup d'état sponsored and planned from the USA

                        answer of whom?
                        The local population?
                        Or interventionists from abroad?
                        During this time, 2 presidents in Ukraine have already changed and a couple of times the Duma was re-elected.
                        Honest vote, mind you.
                        What about your election?
                        Or do you have the first persons either to the grave or to exile to Russia?
                        Quote: Insurgent
                        Chicken is not a bird, Moscow is not abroad

                        of course, therefore less fairy tales and patriotic pathos.
                        You have everything sewn not just with white threads, but also with an overlap.
                        Before blaming anyone, figure out who you are and what you are.
                        Who created you feeds and supports the war.
                        Do not come Strelkov - everything would be calm in Donetsk and Lugansk - as well as throughout Ukraine.
                      7. CSKA
                        CSKA April 18 2020 11: 39 New
                        +7
                        Quote: atalef
                        of course, therefore less fairy tales and patriotic pathos.

                        The storyteller alone you are Sashka. You are trying to indulge a local resident.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Don’t come Strelkov - everything would be calm in Donetsk and Lugansk

                        Clown Strelkov came to Slavyansk. By this time there were already Zakharchenko, Khodokovsky in Donetsk, Bes in Gorlovka. Carpenter and Brain are not local.
                      8. atalef
                        atalef April 18 2020 11: 44 New
                        -5
                        Quote: CSKA
                        The storyteller alone you are Sashka. You are trying to indulge a local resident.

                        the only question the local did not answer is when was he last in Ukraine.
                        I travel 2-3 times a year, the last --- 3 months ago.
                        Quote: CSKA
                        Clown Strelkov came to Slavyansk. By this time there were already Zakharchenko, Khodokovsky in Donetsk, Bes in Gorlovka. Carpenter and Brain are not local

                        By that time, Crimea had already been torn off.
                        Or do you separate one from the other?
                      9. CSKA
                        CSKA April 18 2020 13: 26 New
                        +7
                        Quote: atalef
                        the only question the local did not answer is when was he last in Ukraine.
                        I travel 2-3 times a year, the last --- 3 months ago.

                        And you were in the Donbass? And the opinions of local people in LDNR and Kiev are very different.
                        Quote: atalef
                        By that time, Crimea had already been torn off.

                        And Crimea to Strelkov?
                        You write:
                        Quote: atalef
                        Don’t come Strelkov - everything would be calm in Donetsk and Lugansk

                        And here you drag Crimea. For the rest of the locals you have nothing to say.
                      10. atalef
                        atalef April 18 2020 13: 34 New
                        -5
                        Quote: CSKA
                        And you were in the Donbass?

                        And why, you are broadcasting about Ukraine, and not about the Donbass.
                        And I'm talking about Ukraine.
                        Have you been to Ukraine?
                        when 7 how many times?
                        Quote: CSKA
                        And the opinions of local people in LDNR and Kiev are very different.

                        Of course, but somehow you are in a hurry not only to write down all the citizens of Ukraine in Natsik and Bandera - but for some reason, it’s shameful to keep silent about all the questions you are asked regarding the situation in the LPR
                        Quote: CSKA
                        And Crimea to Strelkov?

                        how and with?
                        “I could not even believe in a terrible or good dream that Crimea would be annexed to Russia. Therefore, when we went to Slavyansk, we were covered Crimean euphoria, a victory that, although with our participationbut it was unexpected for us, ”said Igor Girkin.

                        Beard, the same came after the Crimea
                        https://republic.ru/posts/l/1099696
                        Quote: CSKA
                        And here you drag Crimea. For the rest of the locals you have nothing to say

                        Crimea ? Crimea completely torn off and there is the power of the Russian Federation, and who are you?
                        Президент РФ Владимир Путин в ходе встречи в формате "нормандский плюс" дал понять, что он не заинтересован в замораживании конфликта, а Донбасс – это Украина.
                      11. CSKA
                        CSKA April 23 2020 13: 14 New
                        +1
                        Quote: atalef
                        And why, you are broadcasting about Ukraine, and not about the Donbass.

                        No, I’m not broadcasting for Ukraine. And you are just for the Donbass.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Quote: Insurgent
                        As a response to a coup d'état sponsored and planned from the USA

                        answer of whom?
                        The local population?

                        Quote: atalef
                        Have you been to Ukraine?
                        when 7 how many times?

                        I think there is no point in answering this question?))))) In another thread I already wrote to you.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Of course, but you are in a hurry to not only write down all the citizens of Ukraine in Natsik and Bandera

                        Not all I do not record. But there is a significant number of those who support this ideology and change their shoes.
                        Quote: atalef
                        but for some reason shamefully keep silent about all the questions asked to you by the situation in LDN

                        What kind of questions are these? Give an example?
                        Quote: atalef
                        Beard, the same came after the Crimea
                        https://republic.ru/posts/l/1099696

                        They did not play a role there. There local without them took to the streets. In Donbass, Strelkov has already played a role.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Crimea completely torn off and there is the power of the Russian Federation, and who are you?
                        Президент РФ Владимир Путин в ходе встречи в формате "нормандский плюс" дал понять, что он не заинтересован в замораживании конфликта, а Донбасс – это Украина.

                        ))))) Are you upset not understanding? Do you think he will openly declare what he thinks and is going to do? There are already 125 thousand people in LDNR with Russian passports and every month more and more. Abkhazia and South Ossetia were also recognized only in 2008.
        2. Normal ok
          Normal ok April 19 2020 10: 58 New
          -3
          Quote: Insurgent
          Quote: Avior
          And the question is - if Yanukovych did not suit anyone, how did it happen that the nationalists seized the initiative to replace him?
          What other suitable pro-Russian politicians were not?

          And here is the answer that everyone knows:
          The Natsik initiative was initiated (sorry pun wassat ) from abroad

          Неправда, майдан организовали и оплатили украинские олигархи у которых Янык отжимал активы. Запад лишь обеспечил им политическую "крышу".
        3. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 19 2020 11: 02 New
          -1
          Quote: Normal ok
          Неправда, майдан организовали и оплатили украинские олигархи у которых Янык отжимал активы. Запад лишь обеспечил им политическую "крышу".

          Учите "матчасть",и не пишите глупостей,подозревая меня в некомпетентности по данной теме.

    2. Octopus
      Octopus April 17 2020 13: 05 New
      0
      Quote: Avior
      I ask myself, and I don’t know the answer ...

      Some kind of strange question.
      Quote: Avior
      in his place could be another pro-Russian,

      Pro-Russian or pro-Russian? You do not confuse these two words for an hour?
  • atalef
    atalef April 18 2020 09: 57 New
    -5
    Quote: Insurgent
    But someone is very smart, the terrier already in ex-Ukraine did all this so that the war was

    Was he Strelkova and Co. sent?
    It is strange where this fighter did not crawl - there is no war.
    Quote: Insurgent
    They imposed a war on us? No problem !

    They imposed on you. Surrealism.
    Armed groups entered the territory of a neighboring state, disarmed law enforcement agencies, seized power in the settlements, raising an actual armed rebellion against the legitimate authority of the neighboring state.
    And this is called - imposed.
    laughing
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 18 2020 10: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: atalef
      They imposed on you. Surrealism.
      Armed groups entered the territory of a neighboring state, disarmed law enforcement agencies, seized power in the settlements, raising an actual armed rebellion against the legitimate authority of the neighboring state.
      And this is called - imposed.


      And they did it right!

      Bats, carry COVID-19 quietly, and don’t go where there is simply nothing to do with your mouse intelligence ...

      After all, I already wrote once that you should not come close with troll comments. You are not interested ...
      1. atalef
        atalef April 18 2020 10: 30 New
        -7
        Quote: Insurgent
        After all, I already wrote once that you should not come close with troll comments. You are not interested ...

        Are you the owner of the site?
        Or maybe the chosen one?
        do not want to see my comments do not expose yours.
        This is not trolling, you did not answer a single one.
        I understand - there is nothing to say.
        maybe the one who brought Lugansk and Donetsk to this never-ending war is you.
        If there weren’t Strelkov, there would be no victims and devastation.
        He is a null patient and because of him (and those who sent him) this infection came to Ukraine and even slightly spread.
        1. anjey
          anjey April 18 2020 15: 01 New
          +1
          The zero patient and agent of the West’s influence is Poroshenko — the Blood of Ukraine on him! Like his junta .....
      2. CSKA
        CSKA April 18 2020 11: 41 New
        +7
        Quote: Insurgent
        Bats, carry COVID-19 quietly, and don’t go where there is simply nothing to do with your mouse intelligence ...

        Countryman this creature here in VO often broadcast nonsense. He especially smiles that he is trying to tell us the local how it all began and broadcast for our population.
    2. Alex Nevs
      Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 16 New
      +1
      What do you understand in an armed coup? Remove the log from your eyes. The horses are not up to the leap. Your gangster code has torn the constitution of the outskirts and is now looking for the Law, but it is no longer there.
  • boris epstein
    boris epstein April 18 2020 12: 05 New
    +1
    А в лом посмотреть док фильм "Технологии майдана"? Там прямо сказано, что в посольстве США еще с лета 2013 года проводилось обучение будущих полевых командиров майдана по технологиям цветных революций Джина Шарпа. Связным между АНБ США и организаторами майдана был майор АНБ США Финк Брайн. Абудущие нацбаты организовывал и обучал еще с 1993 года Дима Корчинский, а боевого опыта они набирались в Приднестровье, Чечне, Грузии и Абхазии.Об участии великоукров в 08.08.08-док фильм Аркадия Мамонтова "Свой-чужой"
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins April 17 2020 07: 53 New
    -4
    You reminded me of one figure.
    Here, in the heat of the moment, he wrote to me that in 5 minutes he would collect 200 (!) Photos of the monuments of the Great Patriotic War heroes destroyed in Ukropia on the Internet. I wrote to him - come on, and I give you 2 for each of your photos saved.
    И все... Стушевался оппонент. Не пишет более. Только "минусуют" подленько так, думает, что я не замечаю, как только он на сайт заходит, так у меня сотня минус. Да бог с ним, ущербным...
  • common man
    common man April 17 2020 07: 32 New
    10
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Почему не стреляли из артиллерии по Славянску и Краматорске? Потому что оттуда не вели огонь, значит и ответа была не нужна. Это не мои доводы - военных. Правда укроповских, которым опять же по логике только и дай возможность из гаубиц по кварталам мирным палить. Периодически наталкиваюсь на ролики нынешней мирной жизни этих городов. Счастливые лица, радостные. Детишки, молодые мамы. И в душе они, наверное рады, что у Стрелкова тогда не "нашлось"дивизиона "градов" из которого он мог бы шарахнуть по Карачун.
    And later we found, and we look at the video and photos of Donetsk, Gorlovka, Debaltseve ...

    Уважаемый "Вождь...". Если согласиться с Вашим утверждением, то следующим по аналогии будет....
    "Если бы не такие как Ковпак, Молодая гвардия и many другие, то не было бы и зондеркоманд, Бабьего Яра и опять-таки многого другого.Посмотрите на счастливые лица французов во время немецкой оккупации. На оккупированной части СССР могли бы быть такие-же. И 45 млн. "счастливых" россиян не проклинали бы Зою Космодемьянскую."
    Or is it still not so?
    1. Octopus
      Octopus April 17 2020 13: 09 New
      -9
      Quote: man in the street
      would not curse Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya

      Zoya Anatolyevna, who burned the houses of Russian peasants in winter in order to annoy the Germans, you remembered very opportunely.
      Quote: man in the street
      Or is it still not so?

      Of course not. Since Slavyansk, who was liberated by Strelkov in 2014, and Slavyansk, occupied by the junta for the past 6 years (and the previous 23 years) are one and the same place.
    2. Normal ok
      Normal ok April 19 2020 11: 08 New
      -3
      Quote: man in the street
      If you agree with your statement, then the following by analogy will be ....
      "Если бы не такие как Ковпак, Молодая гвардия и многие другие, то не было бы и зондеркоманд,

      And you do not confuse the fake crimes of the Kiev authorities (recognized by Russia and all other countries) and the very real crimes of Nazi Germany.
  • major147
    major147 April 17 2020 21: 49 New
    +1
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Why didn’t they shoot artillery at Slavyansk and Kramatorsk?

    I think not everyone was ready mentally.
  • Alex Nevs
    Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 15 New
    -1
    вальцман разворушил свой клоповник - теперь все кусаются. И пока это только "почки надувшиеся". Сбежит преступник скоро , и кодла преступная его сбежит , когда пойдет беспредельный беспредел.
  • 30143
    30143 April 17 2020 06: 54 New
    -22
    Let's agree that we do not know how and why Girkin and his detachment ended up in Slavyansk, simultaneously taking command over the Druzhkovka garrison.

    Oh, yes. The author knows well whose cheese the mouse ate. He is afraid that he will have to answer before the court of history. Such as he hate 45 million people.
    It would be better if he was silent.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 17 2020 07: 01 New
      10
      Quote: 30143
      Such as he hate 45 million people.


      This is so about hardly 30 unfortunate people, who were beaten by Bandera residents of the territory of ex-Ukraine, miserable remnants of the number of people living in the Ukrainian SSR for the year 000?

      1. Emphasis
        Emphasis April 17 2020 07: 53 New
        -14
        This is about what 30 million scored you broadcast here ???
      2. Emphasis
        Emphasis April 17 2020 09: 31 New
        -9
        They did not answer the question, but negative in principle?
        Then I repeat: what is there for 30 million? Well this seems to be not a propaganda site, then why such applications? Who is there and what 30mln scored?
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 17 2020 09: 40 New
          +3
          Quote: Accent
          Then I repeat: what is there for 30 million?

          https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2020/01/23/7238191/
          In Ukraine, excluding the occupied territories and citizens living abroad, resides 37 million 289 thousand human.

          A source: briefing by the Minister of the Cabinet of Ministers Dmitry Dubilet, results of the assessment of the explicit population of Ukraine as of December 1, 2019

          Прямая речь: "37 млн 289 тысяч человек населения на территории Украины. К сожалению, эта сумма не включает тех людей, которые постоянно проживают за рубежом и на оккупированных территориях. Это количество людей, которые физически находятся на территории Украины по состоянию на 1 декабря 2019 года".


          And according to more realistic data, there’s not even 30 typed there ...

          Quote: Accent
          Who is there and what 30mln scored?


          Bandera Vlad.
          1. Emphasis
            Emphasis April 17 2020 09: 50 New
            -9
            Are you really clogged? I live in Ukraine and misunderstood a little. What does “hammered” mean in your opinion?
            1. Insurgent
              Insurgent April 17 2020 09: 57 New
              +5
              Quote: Accent
              Are you really clogged? I live in Ukraine and misunderstood a little. What does “hammered” mean in your opinion?

              А вот "недопонял" и есть ваш диагноз утратившего способность мыслить, забитого пресмыкающегося приспособленца...

              Vlada, banderivska, garn? Yak Vlashtov?

              И живёте вы не "В" Украине,а "AT" Украине-Окраине,точнее на том,что от неё осталось в результате ваших тупых скачков.
              1. Emphasis
                Emphasis April 17 2020 10: 05 New
                -9
                Adaptive? What nonsense are you talking about? Complete nonsense. Insults on the TV.
                An opportunist is one who has adapted to something or to someone. So what am I adapted to ???
                Funny you are the interlocutor
                1. Insurgent
                  Insurgent April 17 2020 10: 13 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Accent
                  So what am I adapted to ???

                  To the perverted-intimate cohabitation with the frankly Nazi regime of the junta.

                  But everything suits you in this Quae, so I ask you to no longer bother me with questions-comments to answer your dissolute thoughts.
                  1. Emphasis
                    Emphasis April 17 2020 10: 22 New
                    -8
                    Another nonsense. But to argue with you is useless and there is no reason.
                    1. Insurgent
                      Insurgent April 17 2020 10: 47 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Accent
                      Another nonsense. But to argue with you is useless and there is no reason.

                      Good ! Satisfy not at my expense yes .
                      1. Emphasis
                        Emphasis April 17 2020 12: 50 New
                        -4
                        Satisfy yourself?
                        I have been going to this site for a long time, reading various articles, but somehow I always stayed away from the dialogs.
                        The reason for this was the presence of comrades like you.
                        The site is interesting for me exclusively in articles on armaments, since the topic is interesting and I like to watch the opinions of different parties, so as not to listen only to praise or criticism, so extremes are always not good.
                        And here are people like you that stick their clever thoughts here. In this case, you are inciting ethnic hatred. First, you insult 30 million people of Ukraine, and then you will declare that you are not loved here and are not welcome. Discuss all sorts of conflicts over Russian symbolism, etc. What are you waiting for?
                        Incidentally, the correct "In Ukraine".
                      2. Insurgent
                        Insurgent April 17 2020 13: 36 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Accent
                        Incidentally, the correct "In Ukraine".


                        Yak die, then cheer
                        Mene at the grave,
                        Sereda is wide,
                        fool On the Ukrainian Miles,
                        Shchob fallow deer broad,
                        І Dnіpro, і kruchі
                        Bulo is visible, Bulo is almost
                        Yak roaring.

                        Yak carry from Ukraine
                        At the blue sea
                        I believe in blood ...
                        I fallow and burn -
                        All leave i polina
                        To God Himself
                        Pray ... And before that -
                        I do not know god.

                        Poha that get up.
                        Kaydani break
                        І вражою злою кров'ю
                        Will be sprinkled.
                        І мене в сім'ї великій,
                        В сім'ї вольній, новій
                        Не забудьте пом'янути
                        Invisible in a quiet word.

                        25 babies 1845 in Pereyaslavі
                        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        The rest, in your comment, is even more illiterate and out of place, in essence and by definition. yes
                      3. Emphasis
                        Emphasis April 17 2020 15: 05 New
                        -8
                        “Ukraine” in this case is applied in the sense of “Fatherland” and not “Ukraine”; one should always look at the semantic meaning of words. Also in Ukrainian spelling there is a rule of application of B and Na and it determines their number of consecutive consonants.
                        So let's communicate politely and not poke each other with our literacy
                      4. Insurgent
                        Insurgent April 17 2020 15: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: Accent
                        "Ukraine" in this case is applied in the sense of "Fatherland" belay not "Ukraine",

                        Bidna, bidna, your teacher, Ukrainian movi that literature ... So to be appreciated from different movi ...
                        Quote: Accent
                        So let's communicate politely and not poke each other with our literacy

                        Вот именно,я вам привёл всего-навсего пример из классики,а вы мне целый трактат "про мовний правопис" закатали не по делу.
                      5. Alex Nevs
                        Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 25 New
                        0
                        Так у них Яйцавнюх вообще историю поимел-он так думал. "В 1945 вторжение СССР в Германию" . И де таких воров казнокрадов истории учили? А скакуны и рады. Настоящих Украинцев не касается. Мнение только свое, о бандероперступниках и их скакунцов, скакунчиков.
                    2. 113262a
                      113262a April 17 2020 20: 18 New
                      +4
                      Take has become a young man from 14 years to the whole bulo TO UKRAINE! Read the creations of Frank, Tychyn, Lesi Ukrayinka!
                    3. phair
                      phair April 22 2020 02: 08 New
                      0
                      Better nibble the kyrpichin
                      How to learn pavel
                  2. Alex Nevs
                    Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 21 New
                    -1
                    I am for politeness.
                  3. LKW UE
                    LKW UE April 18 2020 19: 24 New
                    -1
                    Why throw beads before stubborn Russian Natsik? He specifically provokes you to ban, I am surprised that Atalef and you have not yet been banned. I’ve been banned for 5 times in a row for much less fair words. Censorship is the same as in Ukraine, words against the general line on this site are already perceived as a voice crying in the desert, as a breath of air.
                2. 113262a
                  113262a April 17 2020 20: 15 New
                  +5
                  I’ll turn to Ukraine’s Charaz Rocks, Charaz Vicky, Wustam and I will hastily retreat to Materyna’s hands! TAKI TO UKRAINE!
              2. major147
                major147 April 17 2020 21: 58 New
                +7
                Quote: Accent
                Incidentally, the correct "In Ukraine".

              3. Igoresha
                Igoresha April 18 2020 17: 39 New
                -1
                Incidentally, the correct "In Ukraine".
                right in Ukraine if it is a question of the state and in Ukraine if it is an ideot of territory. Arrived at ..
              4. Alex Nevs
                Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 20 New
                +1
                А мне больше нравиться "на". Особливо писля скакунив та стрыбунцив.
              5. Igoresha
                Igoresha April 18 2020 22: 33 New
                -1
                А мне больше нравиться "на".

                somewhere I saw a screen supposedly decrees from the Kravchuk era to write everywhere in Russian only in Ukraine, but maybe it’s a fake, in any case, people have already been trained, also greetings to Belarus))
      3. Kronos
        Kronos April 17 2020 11: 14 New
        +1
        It’s strange to blame ordinary people for living there
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 17 2020 11: 21 New
          -1
          Quote: Kronos
          It’s strange to blame ordinary people for living there

          По комментариям явно бандеровско-провокативного толка сего индивида решили что он "простой" ? Или он вам жаловался,что Инсургент из ДНР его поносит ?
          1. Kronos
            Kronos April 17 2020 11: 32 New
            0
            I'm not talking about him, but in general
          2. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 17 2020 11: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: Kronos
            I'm not talking about him, but in general

            But in general and in particular, the outskirts spread out under Bandera and endures ...

            Is this not clogged?
          3. Kronos
            Kronos April 17 2020 11: 36 New
            0
            Is this ordinary behavior of civilians not in the same DNR under shelling, with a gray zone, without recognition and normal life to strive for?
          4. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 17 2020 11: 38 New
            0
            Quote: Kronos
            Is this the usual behavior of civilians in non-DPR under shelling, with a gray zone, without recognition and normal life to strive for?

            Did you yourself understand that you’ve got it? Is this readable and understandable?

            Formulate your thoughts more clearly and clearly.

          5. Kronos
            Kronos April 17 2020 11: 42 New
            0
            I wrote that this is the usual behavior of citizens in war in any system. An exception is only if there is a war of extermination as in the Great Patriotic War.
          6. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 17 2020 11: 47 New
            +4
            Quote: Kronos
            I wrote that this is the usual behavior of citizens in war in any system. An exception is only if there is a war of extermination as in the Great Patriotic War.

            THERE the war NO,WAR у US

            And the population of ex-Ukraine is simply submissive, slavishly accepting Bandera’s power (I will specify that this is not about the areas of Donbass occupied by the Nazis) ...
          7. Kronos
            Kronos April 17 2020 12: 16 New
            0
            Those who have not accepted are killed or in prison. Therefore accepted
          8. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 17 2020 12: 31 New
            +5
            Quote: Kronos
            Those who have not accepted are killed or in prison. Therefore accepted

            So, the slave began to prevail over the awareness of man.

            Partisan detachment will not come of such ...
          9. Kronos
            Kronos April 17 2020 12: 32 New
            -3
            Вот ролик Тубуса он в часности не плохо раскрывает ситуацию в ЛНР и почему туда не очень стремятся https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsWRPJVk_LE&feature=youtu.be
          10. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 17 2020 12: 36 New
            +2
            Quote: Kronos
            Вот ролик Тубуса он в часности не плохо раскрывает ситуацию в ЛНР и почему туда не очень стремятся https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsWRPJVk_LE&feature=youtu.be

            I don’t need to tell tales and show stories. I live in the DPR, and I know that it is better to be in poverty, but a free, independent person, than climbing Bandera chobots creature.

            PS Yes, in ex-Ukraine I don’t like licking the bandera-Vlad’s chobots, but they spit, and they lick ... SILENTLY, SNOWING IN TWO HOLES ...
          11. Kronos
            Kronos April 17 2020 12: 37 New
            -1
            You look at the beginning of the video and then say that this is not true
          12. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 17 2020 12: 42 New
            0
            Quote: Kronos
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsWRPJVk_LE&feature=youtu.be

            Looked yes


            And it turns out that not true.
          13. Kronos
            Kronos April 17 2020 12: 43 New
            -3
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsWRPJVk_LE&feature=youtu.be . А так открывается ? Называется он ролик - ОХРАНИТЕЛЬ: фас, профиль, нутро. Плохой сигнал.
          14. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 17 2020 12: 48 New
            +2
            Quote: Kronos
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsWRPJVk_LE&feature=youtu.be . А так открывается ?

            Does not open fellow И постойте,в чём вы меня хотите убедить ? Чтобы я "осознал никчёмность и беспросветность бытия " и сдался бандерлогам ?
            yes Зря надрываетесь... Донбасс,"заднюю не включит" No.

            It's time to figure it out ...
          15. Kronos
            Kronos April 17 2020 12: 50 New
            0
            No, I want to convince that there, on both sides, the bourgeois are fighting who do not care about people, but there are only the interests of Ukrainian and Russian oligarchs
          16. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 17 2020 12: 55 New
            -1
            Quote: Kronos
            I do not want to convince that there, on both sides, the bourgeois are fighting who do not care about people, but there are only the interests of Ukrainian and Russian oligarchs

            Вы сам-то ,"чьих олигархов будете" ?
          17. Kronos
            Kronos April 17 2020 12: 56 New
            -1
            I will be for the Communists
          18. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 17 2020 13: 00 New
            +4
            Quote: Kronos
            I will be for the Communists

            I do not see a single communist movement in Russia, unfortunately.
            What it is is an amorphous mass that cannot be compared with the luminaries of the AUCPB, who went to penal servitude and the gallows for the idea.
            Actually, what is now in the Russian Federation is a semblance of KPU Simonenko ...
          19. Kronos
            Kronos April 17 2020 13: 01 New
            0
            The Communists are like Semin, Herald of the Storm, Marx Station and many others but there is really no single movement
  • atalef
    atalef April 18 2020 11: 13 New
    -7
    Quote: Insurgent
    I live in the DPR, and I know that it is better to be in poverty, but a free, independent person

    Anegdot.
    As it does not fit - the statement to be free and independent in your own state and rush to obtain another's citizenship.
  • Dart
    Dart April 18 2020 20: 18 New
    -2
    Better think how much you have left before the ban, eared troll ...
  • Alex Nevs
    Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 30 New
    -2
    Да ничего пока прогрессивного тут нет. Но войны нет и это главное. Остальное нарастет. Пока "буфер" как в автомашине.
  • atalef
    atalef April 18 2020 10: 04 New
    -6
    Quote: Insurgent
    THERE IS NO WAR, WAR AT US

    For that fought for it and ran
    Quote: Insurgent
    And the population of ex-Ukraine is simply submissive, slavishly accepting Bandera’s power (

    What power did you take?
    Maybe you had an election?
    How many chapters have you already changed?
    And where did all the calls come from?
    You better tell us about your own, people's power - it will be more interesting.
  • Alex Nevs
    Alex Nevs April 18 2020 18: 28 New
    0
    Население и той стороны не в "восторге" о перступниках переворотчиках. Выбрали клоуна только из-за фильма. Там он перестрелял Раду. И обещал посадки, потом кинул ВСЕХ избирателей.За это его тоже надо...но сбегить потом паддлюка из страны.100 пудово сбегить.
  • Emphasis
    Emphasis April 17 2020 13: 30 New
    -7
    And about who is “simple” and who is not, the question arises: which of us has been sitting on the site for days, leaving hundreds and hundreds of comments? Such hard work is impossible to combine with any other job. Not enough time. Then the question is: how do you earn bread?
  • Emphasis
    Emphasis April 17 2020 15: 09 New
    -7
    By the way, you never answered how you manage to combine such activity in commenting on everything and everything with work? As for me it’s not real, but you never know
  • 30143
    30143 April 17 2020 14: 50 New
    -4
    You did not take into account those who live abroad. Yes, and in the Crimea there, because Ukrainian passports were not handed over.
    Learn the materiel. Look wider ...
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 18 2020 07: 32 New
      -2
      Quote: 30143
      You did not take into account those who live abroad. Yes, and in the Crimea there, because Ukrainian passports were not handed over.
      Learn the materiel. Look wider ...


      Teach Your Foolish Ministers yes

      In Ukraine, excluding the occupied territories and citizens living abroad, 37 million 289 thousand people live.

      A source: briefing by the Minister of the Cabinet of Ministers Dmitry Dubilet, results of the assessment of the explicit population of Ukraine as of December 1, 2019

      Прямая речь: "37 млн 289 тысяч человек населения на территории Украины. К сожалению, эта сумма не включает тех людей, которые постоянно проживают за рубежом и на оккупированных территориях. This is the number of people who are physically located in Ukraine as of December 1, 2019".
  • atalef
    atalef April 18 2020 10: 00 New
    -5
    Quote: Insurgent
    This is so about hardly 30 unfortunate people who were beaten by Bandera residents of the territory of ex-Ukraine,

    Yes, they live there normally, hard, but by no means indistinguishable from the same Russia.
    The same concerns - work, children, healthcare.
    Nobody is clogged there, and especially Bandera. Himself when was the last time in Ukraine?
    1. anjey
      anjey April 18 2020 22: 07 New
      -1
      Это всего лишь взгляд богатого туриста за чашкой кавы в Львовском ресторанчике на Городецкой ,где не горит от "Градов"Стрыйский парк и Ратуша не зияет разломами от снарядовlaughing
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 72jora72
    72jora72 April 17 2020 06: 56 New
    11
    The significance of Slavyansk is difficult to overestimate, however, according to the author’s sincere, although unpopular, opinion, this value is purely symbolic.
    Значение обороны Славянска имело огромное значение(я не фанат Гиркина),благодаря тому что практически все боеспособные части ВСУ(нац и добробаты только начали формироваться) были возле Славянска-Краматорска. Только благодаря этому Донецк, Горловка и Макеевка не были захвачены(если автор был в то время в Донецке он помнит какой "дурдом" там стоял, и ни о какой обороне речи вообще не стояло)
    1. anjey
      anjey April 17 2020 07: 42 New
      12
      Вот только если бы Стрелков не вышел из Славянска в Донецк,"Ходоковские "последний сдали бы ВСУ ,как и Мариуполь.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent April 17 2020 08: 23 New
        10
        Quote: anjey
        Вот только если Стрелков не вышел бы из Славянска в Донецк,"Ходоковские "последний сдали бы ВСУ ,как и Мариуполь.

        And against the backdrop of everythingextremely strange the fact that upon the death of thirty-nine Russian volunteers departing from the airport, no (as I understand it) assessments by law enforcement officers of the DPR and the Russian Federation were made ...




        1. anjey
          anjey April 17 2020 08: 58 New
          +1
          They wrote off it quietly with mournful faces, to confusion and friendly fire ..... Maybe someday they will unwind this murky and criminal story and punish the guilty, which is hard to believe in our days and under our power.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 17 2020 09: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: anjey
            They wrote off quietly with mournful faces, confusion and friendly fire .....

            За "дружеский огонь",even taking into account the confusion prevailing then, a legal assessment should have been given, identified and named at the beginning подозреваемые и witnesses (during the investigation), and then, after the trial - guilty.

            And yes, they wrote off ...
        2. 72jora72
          72jora72 April 18 2020 09: 25 New
          +3
          При прорыве КАМАЗов погибло примерно пятнадцать человек. Пятьдесят четыре человека погибших всего ,при штурме аэропорта, плюс погибшие из групп деблокирования(количество не знаю). Кстати следующая " гениальная" операция Ходаковского в Мариновке закончилась так же трагически.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 18 2020 09: 45 New
            -1
            Quote: 72jora72
            При прорыве КАМАЗов погибло примерно пятнадцать человек. Пятьдесят четыре человека погибших всего ,при штурме аэропорта, плюс погибшие из групп деблокирования(количество не знаю). Кстати следующая " гениальная" операция Ходаковского в Мариновке закончилась так же трагически.

            Information is diverse, facts are either hushed up or distorted ...

            Here, more or less balanced: http://forum.ozery.info/index.php?showtopic=9762
            1. 72jora72
              72jora72 April 18 2020 09: 52 New
              +4
              Information is diverse, facts are either hushed up or distorted ...

              Here, more or less balanced: http://forum.ozery.info/index.php?showtopic=9762
              I build on the stories of people who directly participated in these events, for example, I know for sure that Khodakovsky personally forbade the fighters of the East to take MANPADS with them, and they would completely change the picture of the battle ....
              1. Insurgent
                Insurgent April 18 2020 09: 58 New
                -1
                Quote: 72jora72
                I build on the stories of people who directly participated in these events, for example, I know for sure that Khodakovsky personally forbade the soldiers of the East to take MANPADS with them, and they would completely change the picture of the battle ....

                Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to communicate with direct participants in this massacre, and on both sides, due to the reasons mentioned in the information at the specified link.

                The fact is also noted there. Prohibition Khodakovsky to take MANPADS to the airport ...
            2. 72jora72
              72jora72 April 18 2020 12: 02 New
              +1
              Information is diverse, facts are either hushed up or distorted ...

              Here, more or less balanced: http://forum.ozery.info/index.php?showtopic=9762
              Прочитал статью, описано все более-менее логично, хотя меня насколько удивило присутствие " отрядов Здрилюка", мне казалось что Абвер(зам Стрелкова) в это время был в Славянске. "Восток" кстати на куда после данных событий не "разбежался", и к июлю стал полноценным батальоном(что не снимает вопросов про личность Ходаковского).
      2. Normal ok
        Normal ok April 20 2020 10: 39 New
        0
        Quote: anjey
        Вот только если бы Стрелков не вышел из Славянска в Донецк,"Ходоковские "последний сдали бы ВСУ ,как и Мариуполь.

        So because initially it was all so and started.
    2. Hourly
      Hourly April 18 2020 11: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: 72jora72
      The importance of the defense of Slavyansk was of great importance (I am not a fan of Girkin), due to the fact that almost all combat-ready units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (nat and dobrobats were just beginning to form) were near Slavyansk-Kramatorsk

      All right! Strelkov brilliantly organized the defense and won the time for the future defense of Donbass .. And most importantly he later withdrew the main forces of the militias from Slavyansk without losses .. It is not in vain that the West is now demanding that he be extradited for trial! And the rest of the commanders were destroyed, but not destroyed, the Russian spirit and faith in Russia! .. Eternal memory to them! soldier
  • anjey
    anjey April 17 2020 06: 57 New
    12
    In principle, then to demolish all our resistance was not difficult. Why this was not done remains a mystery.
    Why, why, what a mystery, uk ... waited, were afraid that Russia would seriously go into the Donbass ....
    1. DMB 75
      DMB 75 April 17 2020 07: 17 New
      20
      But in vain, that did not come in. Very vain ...
  • samarin1969
    samarin1969 April 17 2020 08: 30 New
    +9
    "Партизанской армии" Стрелкова можно только поклонится. Добровольцы действовали в условиях политической неопределённости, уголовщины, кумовства властей Донецка, почти без современного оружия. Сейчас появилось много куда более подробных и адекватных описаний действий в Славянске.
    Если и были какие-то ошибки Стрелкова, то бессмысленно предъявлять к нему требования, как к руководителю "армии". За его действия в Крыму и на Донбассе можно только поблагодарить. Не стоит забывать, что параллельно воевали Мозговой, Безлер, Беднов и многие другие. Луганск Болотова тоже пытался сопротивляться.

    Кроме "антистрелковской" атаки, смысла эта статья господина Махова не несёт. Общеизвестные факты нанизаны на теорию предположений.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 17 2020 08: 44 New
      +3
      Quote: samarin1969
      Volunteers acted in conditions of political uncertainty, criminality, nepotism of the authorities of Donetsk, almost without modern weapons.

      yes

      Ролик("Pavel Gubarev (vs) Kurginyan July 7 in Donetsk. Scandal !!!!") не раскрывается на ВО,просмотр по ссылке в Ю-туб : https://youtu.be/XAOnrGxpdgk

      1. samarin1969
        samarin1969 April 17 2020 10: 13 New
        +2
        Классная нарезка...(Смайлик с шляпой)...Ну, а "крупнейший театральный деятель" - это вообще. можно назвать "цирком", если бы из-за этого не гибли реальные люди...
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 April 17 2020 08: 53 New
    -7
    For someone else, a strange war, and in the Kremlin it has long been called Hybrid.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 17 2020 09: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: Max1995
      For someone else, a strange war, and in the Kremlin it has long been called Hybrid.


      Come on laughing Термин "гибридная война",применительно к тому что у нас происходит,первыми использовали на Западе,тамошние военные, и около военные, аналитики и политики...
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 April 17 2020 13: 11 New
        -2
        You're right. And in the west it is called Hybrid.

        Surround the country with buffer zones - the idea has been known since the time of the pharaohs.
      2. Hourly
        Hourly April 18 2020 11: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Insurgent
        Термин "гибридная война",применительно к тому что у нас происходит,первыми использовали на Западе,тамошние военные, и около военные, аналитики и политики...

        Exactly ! Russia is learning fast ... And we are doing pretty well too!
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion April 17 2020 09: 12 New
    0
    In general, it’s ridiculous to read the couch delirium of the reasoned from the couch, why they didn’t take Kiev back in 2014.

    And who would take it? Russian army? And then what? What to do with impoverished territory with an embittered population from whom Putin has taken the road to European paradise?
    Подавляющая часть даже мужского населения республик, обычные граждане, хорошо, если недавно, или вообще в армии служили. Хотя про укроармию, чему там могли научить мы потом имели возможность лицезреть. Ситуация тогда была крайне мутной, люди в массе вряд ли верили, что к лету 2014-го начнутся настоящие бои, разумеется т. н. ополченцы в таких условиях будут изначально состоять из весьма своеобразного контингента, в основном пришлого, идейных фанатиков, вроде, того же писателя И. Пыхалова, живущих по принципу "кто, если не мы" и готовых ради принципов забить на дом семью и поехать на далекую войну. Или разных отморозков, любящих и умеющих стрелять и убивать, есть небольшой процент таковых среди мужского населения. Ну может еще люди, которые хорошо понимали, что такое укроп, и что воевать придется. Напоминаю, у нас в конце 2013-го над тем же майданом просто потешались, стоят какие-то бомжи на площади, тут же гадят. Потом уже в марте 2014-го я смотрел видео с места событий, со всей этой сгоревшей техникой, разрушениями, и оно больше напоминало кадры из Грозного 95-го. Я не думал, что там ТАКОЕ.

    С укростороны, видимо, примерно так же, там, возможно, многие не верили, что придется по городам стрелять. Ситуация должна была раскачаться. Возможно, идиотские удары, вроде того "кондиционерного" удара по Луганску, служили именно этой цели. Найти из пилотов подонка, готового к такой акции, ну а потом уже все кровью повязаны, и, более того, постепенно привыкают к ней. Командиров нелояльных фашистам заменить, и т. д. К лету дозрело.

    And Girkin was clearly either a dummy person behind whom stood professionals from the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, or an adventurer who climbed on his own without understanding what, but he was lucky.
    1. anjey
      anjey April 17 2020 09: 29 New
      +6
      Про Киев не знаю ,но Мариуполь,Харьков,Николаев,Херсон и Одессу взять было реально и выдавить нациков дальше на остаток Краины и поддержка от населения была бы,но это требовало политической воли и больших военных и логистических ресурсов,к таким затратам наши олигаторы( а сейчас время именно олигархических войн за ресурсы и сырье) были не готовы или не видели выгоды на стратегическую перспективу,да ещё боялись образованию истинно народной Новороссии,вот где еще" собака порылась."...Считаю что Гиркин спас Донецк от сдачи Краине,хотя видимо многим хотелось что бы он с отрядом погиб под Славянском,так что на авантюриста от удачи он не подходит,вполне разумный патриот.
      1. Emphasis
        Emphasis April 17 2020 13: 32 New
        -7
        I myself am from Nikolaev. And what kind of support you write there, I can not imagine at all. Is it about support among pensioners
        1. anjey
          anjey April 17 2020 13: 42 New
          +1
          And sho, would they start to bullet brothers from Russia for abysmal freedom? Poroshenko gave you a lot of freedom and happiness? Ordinary Ukrainian people? The European Union sleeps and sees in its terrible dreams Krajina in its composition, they divorced you and robbed you like the last suckers, and even quarreled with Russia. Soon the most fertile lands will be sold for debts and you will have great happiness. The most interesting thing is that a bloody ghoul Poroshenko is free, lives and chuckles at the shed blood of Ukrainians.
          1. anjey
            anjey April 17 2020 14: 08 New
            +3
            You won’t live in Russophobia for a long time, today you paid, tomorrow the political situation will change, you will get a shih from the West and you’ll be in a dupole.
          2. Emphasis
            Emphasis April 17 2020 14: 50 New
            -9
            Brothers .... and these same brothers do not "bullet" in the Ukrainians? Are there brothers after that? Over there, one brother writes that in Ukraine there are 30 million Bandera, etc., then you say - brothers. A strange fraternity is obtained.
            I perfectly remember the “anti-Maidan” with the “brothers” in our Soviet Union and I remember very well what they worked there and who was there. Because I live here, unlike you. I have a wife from Kherson, and my mother’s relatives are all from Odessa region. And I can tell you what people think and say in the south of Ukraine. Are you talking about some kind of support for Russia?
            1. anjey
              anjey April 17 2020 15: 03 New
              +6
              Listen, until you brought the junta to Poroshenko to power, nobody touched you and Crimea was yours, your junta and Natsik shed blood on the Maidan and then spun, for Odessa it’s scary to remember that the clearly anti-Russian and pro-American stance that seized power deprived you Crimea and partially already Donbass, so don’t justify yourself and don’t bring the blame on the healthy.
              Russophobia in the end costs you a lot.
              1. anjey
                anjey April 17 2020 15: 23 New
                +2
                And America and Europe will not help you, they will soon gut you and throw you with all your giblets.
                1. anjey
                  anjey April 17 2020 15: 36 New
                  +4
                  Ordinary people, especially young people, were bogged down by European integration and the subsequent economic paradise, pay-hatred of Russia, supposedly it will not let you into Europe. Do you yourself believe in this integration and economic miracle in Ukraine? Until now ??? laughing
                  1. Kronos
                    Kronos April 17 2020 17: 13 New
                    -4
                    A miracle will certainly not be like a good life, but they will not shoot, the country is recognized by all the worlds
                    1. anjey
                      anjey April 17 2020 18: 43 New
                      +2
                      Yeah, like a wheelchair with an outstretched arm .....
                    2. CSKA
                      CSKA April 18 2020 11: 48 New
                      10
                      Quote: Kronos
                      A miracle will certainly not be like a good life, but they will not shoot, the country is recognized by all the worlds

                      So is Mauritania. You can be proud of it.
            2. Victorio
              Victorio April 18 2020 16: 13 New
              +2
              Quote: Accent
              I have a wife from Kherson, and my mother’s relatives are all from Odessa region.

              ====
              ) and my relatives / south of Ukraine / b-Dniester write here the opposite, how they got their power and everything that is happening around.
            3. Normal ok
              Normal ok April 20 2020 10: 47 New
              0
              Quote: Accent
              Brothers .... and these same brothers do not "bullet" in the Ukrainians?

              And us for what?
      2. Normal ok
        Normal ok April 20 2020 10: 46 New
        0
        Quote: anjey
        I don’t know about Kiev, but it was real to take Mariupol, Kharkov, Nikolaev, Kherson and Odessa

        До Херсона - да, даже ,возможно, до Николаева. Но всё что имелось на тот момент у ВСУ было сосредоточено в Николаевской области. Это время! Время, за которое Запад нашёл бы ответ. И сейчас были бы не "точечные" санкции а полная изоляция, по типу Сев. Кореи.
        1. anjey
          anjey April 20 2020 11: 46 New
          -1
          C'mon, what is total isolation? Where are they without Russia and its raw materials and the market and export of its capital?
    2. 113262a
      113262a April 17 2020 20: 35 New
      +2
      I remember how you boiled up when the people of Bes first agreed with the Armed Forces of Ukraine on neutrality, and then at night they burned their camp with equipment and people. This is on the way from Marika, a half hour drive to Donetsk. Prior to this, the APU really did not want to fight. We then also realized that everything, Lafa was over, we won’t be able to agree more. And there will be an answer. Almost the same thing happened a little earlier in our city of Lugansk, when we agreed with the border guards, and then the right-wingers came and broke everything. And the storm of the outpost began. A lot of incomprehensible, and therefore contrary. On both sides.
      1. Victorio
        Victorio April 18 2020 18: 40 New
        +1
        Quote: 113262
        I remember how you boiled up when the people of Bes first agreed with the Armed Forces of Ukraine on neutrality, and then at night they burned their camp with equipment and people. This is on the way from Marika, a half hour drive to Donetsk. Prior to this, the APU really did not want to fight. We then also realized that everything, Lafa was over, we won’t be able to agree more. And there will be an answer. Almost the same thing happened a little earlier in our city of Lugansk, when we agreed with the border guards, and then the right-wingers came and broke everything. And the storm of the outpost began. A lot of incomprehensible, and therefore contrary. On both sides.

        ===
        somehow wound up with the general of the military review of the mariupol. he rested on the absence / insufficiency of horsepower and equipment for the assault / attack or entry into mariupol, depending on how it was prepared, strong and inclined. I didn’t specify where he got such information from. people from mariupol told me about strong pro-Russian / international moods for that period (2016-17). What is your vision, since you are an eyewitness from there?
        1. 113262a
          113262a April 18 2020 20: 59 New
          +4
          In the spring of 14, RUSSIAN SPRING was really going on in Marika. In addition to active anti-Bandera-minded elderly Afghans, former border guards and paratroopers, about 50-60 people gathered up to 1000 sympathizers and pro-Russian civilians from small to large! Up to 10 thousand people participated in the rallies. Total rebellion, like everywhere else, was not. The people worked, studied, plowed, sowed. This is the specificity of Donbass! Although, according to the results of the preparation and conduct of referenda, the pro-Russian percentage is more than 60%, moreover, it is fairly objectively calculated. That I did NOT LEAVE THE EARTH, I WENT TO FIGHT- this is yes, especially in Marika and in the mines, many people are engaged in a continuous production cycle, which to quit was a crime to many — GIVING GOATS stopped electric furnaces, crumbling lining, burned out coke oven batteries. And the leadership of the uprising, realizing this, sought to maintain production for obvious reasons. And the contract with Akhmetov, of course, was! It was because of the failure of the mobilization of potential EXCESSIVE that what happened happened! And already, when the uprising was crushed, the SBU began to uproot and nightmare everyone who did not have time to leave, including their families. And, yes, Semenovtsy (what was later called Sparta) and partially the people of Khodakovsky and Givi passed Marik through (after Ilovaisk) and the vanguard reached right to the outskirts of Urzuf. Then ... they all returned ...
          1. Victorio
            Victorio April 18 2020 22: 09 New
            0
            understandably. thanks for the info
  • Sergey Pedenko
    Sergey Pedenko April 17 2020 10: 41 New
    -1
    why no one understands anything, the authorities themselves did not know what to do, there’s no strategy, it’s clear with Crimea, there’s autonomy, but here there was hope, maybe, and that everyone would rise and go against Kiev, well, say- / don’t start that you cannot complete /
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 17 2020 11: 02 New
      0
      Цитата: Сергей Педенко
      what can I say- / don’t start what you can’t complete /


      But once started, then be kind ...

  • Vasily Subbotin
    Vasily Subbotin April 17 2020 19: 00 New
    -2
    "...Автор может привести лишь собственные наблюдения и воспоминания .. " Некчемный выпердышь автор может только привести лживый.
  • Hourly
    Hourly April 18 2020 11: 35 New
    +1
    However, largely thanks to Girkin himself, the same Babay and the professional work of Russian military commissars, the defense of Slavyansk became a symbol of the “Russian spring”

    Yes, it was ... There was such an impulse of patriotism!

    But alas, everything calmed down, and the Bandera continues to bomb Donbass
  • gurzuf
    gurzuf April 18 2020 20: 04 New
    -1
    Quote: atalef
    because the troops of the Russian Federation entered the Crimea

    Where there is a Russian man, the Russian army is already there. The Russian Armed Forces did not leave Crimea.
  • DDT
    DDT April 21 2020 13: 31 New
    0
    Да... вот одного не понимает Русская Весна и все связанные с ней "национал-патриотические" и "исконно-сермяжно-русские" товарищи... Дай вам бы Путин волю, в 2214 году, в учебниках по истории Ново-Крымского хамства, писали бы о том, как Путин-бей присоеденил к Крыму Москву. lol
  • itis
    itis April 21 2020 22: 09 New
    0
    бог войны..сам Стрелков писал,что когда ВСУ подтянуло арт расчеты он понял,что такое настоящая война(вроде и ранен был,вроде в палец).тогда и завертелось.ВСУ потом тоже поняли,что такое война в Углегорске и Дебальцево."грады"господа