Military Review

Testing German Armor: Theory and Practice

105

The Royal Tiger at the Kubinka firing range immediately after shelling with 75 mm and 85 mm shells. Prior to this, more serious artillery worked on the Hitler machine. Source: warspot.ru


Objects of research


The German school of tank building, of course, one of the strongest in the world, required careful study and understanding. The first portion stories examples of tests of captured Tigers and Panthers were examined, but no less interesting documents could also fall into the hands of domestic engineers, according to which it was possible to trace the evolution of German technology. Soviet specialists during the war and later tried not to let anything out of sight. After most tanks Hitler’s “menagerie” was fired from all kinds of calibers, it was the turn of a detailed study of tank production technologies. In 1946, engineers studying the production technology of tracked tracks of German tanks finished their work. The research report was published in 1946 in the then-secret "Bulletin of the tank industry."


Source: metspra.ru

The material, in particular, indicates a chronic lack of chromium, which German industry had encountered in 1940. That is why in the Hadfield alloy, from which all the tracks of the tanks of the Third Reich were cast, there was no chrome at all, or (in rare cases) its share did not exceed 0,5%. The Germans also had difficulty obtaining ferromanganese with a low phosphorus content, so the share of non-metal in the alloy was also slightly lowered. In 1944, in Germany there were also difficulties with manganese and vanadium - due to overspending on armor steels, so the trucks were cast from silicon-manganese steel. Moreover, manganese in this alloy was not more than 0,8%, and vanadium was completely absent. All tracked armored vehicles had cast tracks, for the manufacture of which arc electric furnaces were used, with the exception of plain tractors - stamped tracks were used here.


Caterpillar of the Mouse. Cuban. Author photo

An important step in the manufacture of tracked tracks was heat treatment. In the early stages, when the Germans still had the opportunity to use Hadfield steel, the trucks slowly heated from 400 to 950 degrees, then for a while they raised the temperature to 1050 degrees and quenched in warm water. When it was necessary to switch to silicon-manganese steel, the technology was changed: the tracks were heated to 980 degrees for two hours, then cooled to 100 degrees and quenched in water. After that, the smelting of the trucks at 600-660 degrees for two hours was still released. Often, specific treatment of the track ridge was applied, cementing it with a special paste followed by water quenching.

The largest German supplier of tracks and fingers for tracked vehicles was Meyer und Weihelt, which together with the Wehrmacht’s High Command developed a special technology for testing finished products. For trucks, it was a bend to failure and multiple impact tests. Fingers were tested for bending to fracture. For example, the fingers of the tracks of the TI and T-II tanks, before they burst, had to withstand a load of at least a ton. Residual deformations in accordance with the requirements could appear at a load of at least 300 kg. Soviet engineers noted with perplexity that the plants of the Third Reich did not have a special procedure for testing the tracks and fingers for wear resistance. Although it is this parameter that determines the survivability and resource of tank tracks. This, by the way, was a problem for German tanks: the truck’s lugs, fingers and ridges wore out relatively quickly. Only in 1944 in Germany began work on the surface hardening of eyes and ridges, but time was already lost.










"Royal Tiger" under fire. Source: warspot.ru

How was time lost with the advent of the Royal Tiger? The optimistic tone that accompanies the description of this vehicle on the pages of the Bulletin of the Tank Industry at the end of 1944 is very interesting. The author of the material is lieutenant colonel engineer Alexander Maksimovich Sych, deputy head of the Kubinka test site for research and development activities. In the post-war period, Alexander Maksimovich rose to the rank of deputy chief of the Main Armored Directorate and oversaw, in particular, tank tests for resistance to atomic explosions. On the pages of the main specialized publication on tank building A. M. Sych describes a heavy German tank not from the best side. It is indicated that the sides of the tower and hull are affected by all tank and anti-tank guns. Only the distances are different. Cumulative shells took armor from all ranges, which is natural. Sub-caliber 45-57-mm and 76-mm shells hit at distances of 400-800 meters, and armor-piercing caliber 57, 75 and 85 mm - from 700-1200 meters. It must only be remembered that A. M. Sych under the defeat of the armor does not always imply its through penetration, but only internal spalls, cracks and open joints.

The forehead of the “Royal Tiger” was expectedly struck only by calibers of 122 mm and 152 mm from distances of 1000 and 1500 meters. It is noteworthy that the material also does not say about the non-penetration of the frontal part of the tank. During the tests, 122-mm shells caused spalls on the back of the plate, destroyed the machine gun course, cracked the welds, but did not pierce the armor through at the indicated distances. This was not a matter of principle: the obstructed action of an incoming projectile from the IS-2 was quite enough to guarantee the failure of the car. When the 152-mm ML-20 cannon was working on the forehead of the Royal Tiger, the effect was similar (without penetration), but cracks and open joints were larger.

As a recommendation, the author suggests conducting machine-gun fire and firing from anti-tank rifles at the observation instruments of the tank - they were dimensional, unprotected and difficult to change after a defeat. In general, according to A.M.Sych, the Germans hurried with this armored vehicle and counted more on the moral effect than on the fighting qualities. In support of this thesis, the article says that during production the pipeline was not fully assembled to increase the fordability to be overcome, and the instructions in the captured tank were typewritten and in many ways did not correspond to reality. At the end, the Tiger II is rightly blamed for being overweight, while the armor and weapons do not correspond to the “format” of the machine. At the same time, the author accuses the Germans of copying the form of the hull and turret T-34, which once again confirms the world the advantages of the domestic tank. Among the advantages of the new "Tiger" stand out carbon dioxide automatic fire extinguishing system, a monocular prismatic sight with a variable field of view and an engine heating system with battery for reliable winter starting.

Theory and practice


All of the above clearly indicates that the Germans at the end of the war experienced certain difficulties with the quality of tank armor. This fact is well known, but methods of solving this problem are of interest. In addition to increasing the thickness of the armor plates and giving them rational angles, the Hitlerite industrialists went to certain tricks. Here you will have to delve into especially the technical conditions by which the molten armor was taken for the production of armored plates. “Military Acceptance” conducted a chemical analysis, determined the strength and conducted firing range. If everything was clear with the first two tests and it was almost impossible to dodge here, then shelling at the firing range since 1944 has caused a steady "allergy" among industrialists. The thing is that in the second quarter of this year, 30% of the shells tested by shelling could not stand the first hits, 15% became substandard after the second projectile hit, and 8% were destroyed from the third test. This data applies to all German plants. The main type of marriage during the tests was spalling on the back of the armor plates, the size of which exceeded the projectile caliber by more than two times. Obviously, no one was going to revise the acceptance standards, and improving the quality of armor for the required parameters was no longer under the strength of the military industry. Therefore, it was decided to find a mathematical relationship between the mechanical properties of armor and armor resistance.

Initially, the work was organized on E-32 steel armor (carbon - 0,37-0,47, manganese - 0,6-0,9, silicon - 0,2-0,5, nickel - 1,3-1,7 , chrome - 1,2-1,6, vanadium - up to 0,15), according to which statistics from 203 shells were collected. The thickness of the plate was 40-45 mm. The results of such a representative sample showed that only 54,2% of the armored plates withstood shelling by 100% - all the rest for various reasons (spalling on the back, cracks and splits) failed the tests. For research purposes, the fired specimens were tested for tensile strength and impact resistance. Despite the fact that the relationship between mechanical properties and armor resistance, of course, exists, the E-32 study did not reveal a clear relationship, which allows abandoning field tests. The armor plates, fragile by the results of the shelling, revealed high strength, and those that did not pass the back strength tests found a slightly lower strength. It was not possible to find the mechanical properties of the armor plates, which make it possible to distinguish them into groups according to armor resistance: the limiting parameters went far into each other.

The question was approached from the other side and adapted for this purpose the dynamic torsion procedure, which was previously used to control the quality of tool steel. The samples were tested before the formation of kinks, which, among other things, indirectly judged the armor resistance of the armor plates. The first comparative test was carried out on E-11 armor (carbon - 0,38-0,48, manganese - 0,8-1,10, silicon - 1,00-1,40, chromium - 0,95-1,25) using samples that successfully passed the shelling and failed. It turned out that the torsion parameters of the armored steel are higher and not very scattered, but in the "bad" armor, the results obtained are significantly lower with a large dispersion of the parameters. A break in high-quality armor must be smooth without chips. The presence of chips becomes a marker of low shell resistance. Thus, German engineers managed to invent methods for assessing the absolute armor resistance, which, however, they did not have time to use. But in the Soviet Union, these data were rethought, large-scale research was carried out at the All-Union Institute aviation materials, VIAM) and was adopted as one of the methods for assessing domestic armor. Trophy armor can be not only in the form of armored monsters, but also in technologies.






Frontal detail of the Mouse with marks. Cuban. Author photo

Of course, the apotheosis of the captured history of the Great Patriotic War became two copies of the super-heavy "Mouse", of which at the end of the summer of 1945, Soviet specialists assembled one tank. It is noteworthy that after studying the machine by the specialists of the NIABT training ground, they practically did not fire at it: obviously, there was no practical sense in this. Firstly, in 1945 the Mouse was no longer a threat, and secondly, such a unique technique was of certain museum value. The power of domestic artillery at the end of testing at the test site from the Teutonic giant would leave a pile of debris. As a result, the Mouse received only four shells (obviously, 100 mm caliber): to the forehead of the hull, to the right side, to the forehead of the tower and the right side of the tower. Attentive visitors to the museum in Kubinka will probably be outraged: they say, on the armor of the Mouse there are much more marks from the shells. These are all the results of shelling with German guns back in Kummersdorf, and the Germans themselves fired during the tests. To avoid fatal damage, domestic engineers carried out calculations of the armor resistance of the tank protection according to the Jacob de Marr formula, as amended by Zubrov. The upper limit was a 128 mm shell (obviously German), and the lower limit was a 100 mm shell. The only part that can withstand all these ammunition was the 200-mm upper frontal, located at an angle of 65 degrees. The maximum reservation was at the forehead of the tower (220 mm), but theoretically due to the vertical position it was hit by a 128-mm shell at a speed of 780 m / s. Actually, this shell at various speeds of approach penetrated through the tank armor from any angle, except for the frontal part mentioned above. The 122-mm armor-piercing projectile from eight angles did not penetrate the Mouse in five directions: into the forehead, side and rear of the tower, as well as into the upper and lower frontal part. But we remember that the calculations are carried out for the through defeat of the armor, and even a high-explosive 122-mm shell without penetration could well disable the crew. To do this, it was enough to get into the tower.

In the results of the study of Mouse, one can find the disappointment of domestic engineers: this giant machine did not represent anything interesting at that time. The only thing that attracted attention was the method of connecting such thick armor plates of the hull, which could come in handy when designing domestic heavy armored vehicles.

The “Mouse” has remained to the end an unexplored monument to the absurd thought of the German engineering school.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Anvils for the Red Army. Tests of German captured tanks
105 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka April 11 2020 05: 57 New
    13
    Thanks for continuing the cycle!
    1. Bongo
      Bongo April 11 2020 12: 49 New
      +5
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Thanks for continuing the cycle!

      Vladislav, hello! I also liked the article very much, I read it with great pleasure! good
      But there is one point:
      The Germans also had difficulty obtaining ferromanganese with a low phosphorus content, so the share of non-metal in the alloy was also slightly lowered.
      I don’t understand what kind of "non-metal" we are talking about. Ferromanganese is an alloy of manganese with iron, which is used in the metallurgical industry as an alloying additive and for deoxidation of steel. If we are talking about phosphorus, then the less it is in steel - the better.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka April 11 2020 12: 59 New
        +4
        Sergey, good day!
        Here I am not an expert! I hope Victor Nikolayevich comes here. He may explain this conflict.
        Regards, Vlad!
        1. Bongo
          Bongo April 11 2020 13: 01 New
          +5
          Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Here I am not an expert! I hope Victor Nikolayevich comes here. He may explain this conflict.

          Perhaps a respected author in the parking lot made an unfortunate typo (this often happens in the very case), and we are talking about the fact that the content of harmful phosphorus has increased in ferromanganese.
          1. Evgeny Fedorov
            April 11 2020 13: 24 New
            11
            Good day! I got a little wise. In fact, everything is simple - the Germans during the war in ferromanganese alloys were forced to increase the regulatory share of phosphorus due to difficulties with its removal.
            1. Bongo
              Bongo April 11 2020 13: 30 New
              +8
              Quote: Yevgeny Fedorov
              Good day! I got a little wise. In fact, everything is simple - the Germans during the war in ferromanganese alloys were forced to increase the regulatory share of phosphorus due to difficulties with its removal.

              Eugene, hello! hi
              In principle, phosphorus is simply removed from the melt by inducing slag based on lime and magnesite, but this takes time and resources. As for the typo, this is an absolutely working moment, and it is easy to fix it. The rest of the article is great! good
              1. Undecim
                Undecim April 11 2020 22: 29 New
                +2
                In principle, phosphorus is quite easily removed from the melt by inducing slag based on lime and magnesite, but this takes time and resources.
                In relation to the ferromanganese in question, this technology is not applicable.
                Low phosphorus ferromanganese is smelted from the corresponding raw material, malophosphorous slag.
            2. Astra wild
              Astra wild April 11 2020 20: 54 New
              +5
              Eugene, to you +: I respect self-critical people. Self-criticism is a sign of upbringing, as I know, it’s not easy, and even more so by the author. Another author could become stubborn: I am an author and therefore I am infallible.
            3. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny April 12 2020 23: 42 New
              +3
              I apologize for getting into a conversation - as a child I read the book “Three Faces of Janus”, for our scout, the book is artistic truth. But it was described there that the Germans had a large deficit of nickel, it was he who gave the required viscosity to armor steel. The Germans found this out when examining our 34-c.
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich April 11 2020 05: 59 New
    +2
    at the factories of the Third Reich there was no special procedure for testing tracks and fingers for wear resistance. Although it is this parameter that determines the survivability and resource of tank tracks. Incidentally, this was a problem for German tanks: the truck’s lugs, fingers and ridges wore out relatively quickly.

    The tank often wore out even faster.
    Although, of course, the absence of such is surprising. seemingly obvious tests ......
    the author proposes to machine-gun fire and fire from anti-tank rifles at the observation instruments of the tank - they were dimensional, unprotected and difficult to replace after a defeat.
    the machine gun, even less protected, must still live up to the distance of opening fire ...
    Thus, German engineers managed to invent methods for assessing absolute armor resistance,

    but time was gone ...
    Like vanadium and nickel ....
    But we remember that the calculations are carried out for the through defeat of the armor, and even a high-explosive high-explosive 122-mm shell without breaking could well disable the crew. To do this, it was enough to get into the tower.

    in the memoirs there are similar episodes: the tank looks intact. and the crew is dead-struck by shards of armor
    «
    Mouse ”and remained to the end an unexplored monument to the absurd thought of the German engineering school.

    created during the agony, that’s clutching at absurd straws ...
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 07: 15 New
      -1
      Quote: Olgovich
      Incidentally, this was a problem for German tanks: the truck’s lugs, fingers and ridges wore out relatively quickly.
      The tank often wore out even faster.
      But much more often had to change if not tracks, then tracks, precisely from the destruction of the "fingers"
      Quote: Olgovich
      the machine gun, even less protected, must still live up to the distance of opening fire ...
      The machine gun does not have three meters in height, and disguises itself without much difficulty and it is not difficult for him to change his position.
      Quote: Olgovich
      in the memoirs there are similar episodes: the tank looks intact. and the crew is dead-struck by shards of armor
      This, with all the crew killed, is mentioned only when the godfather is defeated. projectile.
    2. Fat
      Fat April 11 2020 22: 44 New
      +4
      Andrew. I want to tell you a little about "disable" ... Father participated in the defense of Stalingrad at the end of 1942 in 39th Guards. SD, was the commander of the calculation of mortars, the battalion mortar 82 mm. The successful hit of a mine in a tank incapacitated him ... How ???
      Father simply said: Almost every such case jammed the tower of the tank.
      Nobody understood the reasons then ....
      The main thing - it worked.
      1. your1970
        your1970 April 12 2020 16: 58 New
        0
        My father served on the T-10 in the GSVG. He said that the unit commander (front-line soldier) practiced periodically shelling crews of 76 mm.
        T-10 in a closed position, ZIS -3 direct fire at a distance excluding penetration of a blank or damage to the tank, the crew inside.
        The tower rang from the blows and the smallest particles of scale (apparently) were eaten into the skin ...
        Developed moral stability and faith in the tank ..
        1. Fat
          Fat April 12 2020 17: 33 New
          0
          Probably. But T10 is not the troika or four of the Wehrmacht’s army, it is a serious apparatus thought out for its era .. Not?
          1. Fat
            Fat April 12 2020 17: 34 New
            0
            And where are the teachings, and where is the war, brother?
          2. your1970
            your1970 April 12 2020 17: 41 New
            0
            I generally did not argue with you. I just told the story
            1. Fat
              Fat April 12 2020 20: 20 New
              0
              Please accept my apologies if I unwittingly offended you. But then my father fought, and his opinion, though in my interpretation I quote. He did not reach Berlin and T10 ... The paratroopers, in fact, do not live long in the war ... Before retirement.
              Sorry fathers.
              How many of you consider yourself retired?
              Me not. The funeral did not come to me. . Here I stand and I will stand ...
  3. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 07: 18 New
    +2
    Great loop! Thanks to the author. An interesting aspect was mentioned by the author, in addition to armor, by itself. Caterpillars! A tank can be anything but excellent, but without them it is an expensive bunker, no more. Even a car without tires is not hopeless, but not a tank without tracks.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish April 11 2020 07: 39 New
      +6
      The machine gun does not have three meters in height, and disguises itself without much difficulty and it is not difficult for him to change his position.

      Vladimir hi , a machine gun against the tank - nothing, no matter how it disguised itself or changed its position. To get on tank triplexes and a machine gun is already from the realm of fantasy. You can, of course, just a year from the three-ruler to the Stuck lantern. Of the guns, they didn’t always fall, and even more so exactly where they needed to. For example, we had more problems with mud-driven triplexes of the driver’s mud, though it was during exercises and nobody shot at us.
      1. Evgeny Fedorov
        April 11 2020 07: 58 New
        +8
        I agree. Quote from the previous article loop:
        And this despite the fact that out of 107-mm M-60 guns, 122-mm M-30 howitzers and 152-mm ML-20 howitzers, the testers could not hit the target at all!
        And these are polygonal conditions and the goal is rather big - heavy ,, Tiger ,,
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 08: 12 New
          0
          Type in the search: "Tank vulnerabilities." And it’s simple, note: for this purpose, a machine gun (including) was used for single targets at a great distance and practiced volley shooting with rifles in order to increase the probability of hitting a target with a low intrinsic accuracy of the weapon.
      2. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 08: 09 New
        0
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Vladimir hi, the machine gun against the tank - nothing, no matter how he disguised himself or changed his position. To get on tank triplexes and a machine gun is already from the realm of fantasy.
        I confess I was even taken aback, so in the instructions for the Red Army and, later, the Soviet Army they wrote fiction?


        Just type in the search: “Tank Vulnerabilities”, there is such a fantasy WAGON!
        1. Fat
          Fat April 12 2020 09: 09 New
          +2
          Vladimir Question from the series who will defeat a saboteur with a knife or a tank with a crew.
          It all depends on the "introductory" conditions. There are no competitors to the tank on the battlefield. But the learned weaknesses give a chance to a fighter.
          Remember the tricks of Maxim the Quail.
          This is not fiction. There were cases and cooler. The pieces were shot down from the PTR and mortar fire. And the tanks captured with a rolling overcoat. With the help of a rope and a pair of F1 grenades, it also turned out ...
          I am not in contradiction to you, I rather expressed in confirmation ...
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 09: 16 New
            0
            Quote: Thick
            I am not in contradiction to you, I rather expressed in confirmation ...

            Thank you, I understand, approximately. )))
      3. your1970
        your1970 April 12 2020 17: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Of the guns, they did not always fall, and even more so exactly where they needed to.

        I don’t remember exactly the article on VOO, but in my opinion, after the Kursk Bulge, they stated that order 20 (!!!!!)% of hits and penetration of tanks by small caliber accounted for ......trunks !!!! Not the largest part of the tank if ...
  4. Free wind
    Free wind April 11 2020 07: 57 New
    -4
    It’s almost impossible to take a tiger’s forehead. However, they thrust a machine gun into something inside. It is interesting that the 81 mm caliber gun, maybe an Englishwoman or an American, they have everything in inches, I can’t remember something offhand. ZIS-3 apparently did not break anything. It is interesting that in the instructions it is necessary to beat in the side flipper over the caterpillar, how to get there it is 20-30 cm in height, and even the side screen is closed. According to the geese, you see the Fritz knocks out a finger from the goose, the finger is not working out, but the tensioning crest is destroyed, apparently they decided to replace the track section, Fritz almost knocked out his finger, and Hans doesn’t want to work. Arbeiten Hans, schnell, Russians will come, do you know where to put this sledgehammer?. It will be difficult for you to walk Hans. Goose walked quite normally, but still need to live to wear.
  5. svp67
    svp67 April 11 2020 08: 21 New
    +6
    Yes, everyone is fighting the enemy in "his own sector of the front." And the work of our specialists, in all possible research institutes, to study the weapons of the enemy, also brought our victory closer.
    Many thanks to the author. I enjoyed reading this article.
  6. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy April 11 2020 08: 55 New
    +1
    The article is good, but it didn’t cost ......
    tried not to let anything out of sight excess.
    ferromanganese with a low phosphorus content, so the share of non-metal in the alloy is also a little lowered.
    Maybe increased?
  7. edmed
    edmed April 11 2020 09: 00 New
    +3
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    This, with all the crew killed, is mentioned only when the godfather is defeated. projectile.

    Had to read a book about some kind of naval battle, the enemy’s shell hit the main-caliber tower, didn’t break through. but the servant was completely knocked out, they used either landmines or second-hand, in the “ZVO” there were materials on the so-called a "hash" of shells whose principle of operation is not designed to penetrate but to defeat armor splinters from the inside.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 14: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: edmed
      I happened to read a book about some naval battle, the enemy’s shell hit the main-caliber tower
      I don’t recall exactly the secondary fragments such that something similar was described in the magnificent book “The Cruiser of His Highness Ulysses”, but there it was about the defeat by a stiff shock wave, like that. About the defeat of the secondary fragments of the entire crew, it has never been found in the literature, only about the towers, or those who were in the corps.
      Quote: edmed
      "hash" to shells
      This is somewhat different, but the article deals specifically with AP shells.
      1. edmed
        edmed April 11 2020 15: 23 New
        0
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        I don’t recall exactly the secondary fragments such that something similar was described in the magnificent book “The Cruiser of His Highness Ulysses”, but there it was about the defeat by a stiff shock wave, like that. About the defeat of the secondary fragments of the entire crew, it has never been found in the literature, only about the towers, or those who were in the corps.
        Quote: edmed
        "hash" to shells
        This is somewhat different, but the article deals specifically with AP shells.

        hi I don’t dispute, it’s quite possible, but the appearance of “hash” is justified by the fact that “why break through when you can beat it back”, this article also mentions.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 17: 16 New
          +2
          In the HESH article, high-explosive shells with a collapsible warhead are not mentioned, and it’s wise, according to the Internet, they appeared in the 50s. And HE shells are mentioned only once and in the alleged vein:
          even a high-explosive 122 mm shell without penetration could disable the crew
          .
          1. edmed
            edmed April 11 2020 18: 22 New
            +2
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            In the HESH article, high-explosive shells with a collapsible warhead are not mentioned, and it’s wise, according to the Internet, they appeared in the 50s. And HE shells are mentioned only once and in the alleged vein:
            even a high-explosive high-explosive 122-mm shell without breaking could well disable the crew
            .

            The landmine led to the defeat of the “armor” shell-shock or fragmentation inside, the “hash” was imprisoned for defeat by shrapnel, well, and shell-shock. I agree, they appeared with the advent of the “plastic”.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 18: 26 New
              0
              Quote: edmed
              Landmine led to defeat for the "armor"concussion
              Yes, by the way, I wrote about a similar episode in the book "Ship E.V. Ulysses", if you have not read it, I highly recommend it.
  8. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy April 11 2020 09: 14 New
    +1
    There’s a penetration of the armor of the side of the Tiger, there is an 85-mm shell from the T-34, but from a distance of 200 m. How is it to get to it, in the form of a plastun or like the wind?
  9. lucul
    lucul April 11 2020 10: 55 New
    +1
    In the results of the study of Mouse, one can find the disappointment of domestic engineers: this giant machine did not represent anything interesting at that time.

    Voooot, at least someone was not afraid to tell the truth ....
  10. ccsr
    ccsr April 11 2020 12: 47 New
    +6
    An explanatory and balanced article, without distortions to the extreme and with a competent analysis of the reservation of German technology. This is what distinguishes it from various “studies” of home-grown military experts who are not interested in such details, because the main thing for them is that no one disputes the slogan “Our tanks are the best”. The interesting fact in the article is how meticulously researched the reservation of German tanks in Kubinka already in the post-war period, and that our experts always learned from the enemy in order to create better equipment later. It remains to thank the author for interesting material.
  11. Operator
    Operator April 11 2020 14: 28 New
    -2
    The inhibition of German engineers is striking, only a year before the end of the war, the contact surfaces of caterpillar tracks and fingers thought of hardening in order to protect them from frictional wear.

    It seems that the Germans designed caterpillar movers only for use on the parade ground wink
  12. Operator
    Operator April 11 2020 14: 32 New
    0
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    This, with all the crew killed, is mentioned only when the godfather is defeated. shell

    Fiction - on another portal laughing
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 17: 07 New
      0
      Quote: Operator
      Fiction - on another portal
      Of course science fiction, everything you don’t know about is also science fiction?
      There is a car with tightly shut hatches, from it through the armor you can hear the screech of the rotating umformer of the radio station. But the crew is silent ... It does not respond to a knock or on the radio. In the tower - a little, a penny-sized, melted hole, the little finger will not pass. And this is “faust”, his work! The screen in this place is torn off, a concentrated explosion hit the armor ...

      https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=313400&p=18
      1. Operator
        Operator April 11 2020 17: 14 New
        +2
        I’m talking about a cumulative stream that "kills the crew", but leaving the umformer left to rotate - Litmir as he is (senseless and merciless) laughing
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 17: 29 New
          0
          Quote: Operator
          Litmir, he is so
          Did Litmir write his memoirs? The author on the cover of Chernikov is recorded, this is his MEMOIR. The crew died, his eternal memory, was killed by a cumulative charge, there are no questions about this? As far as I know, the umformer does not have any parts that are sensitive to excessive pressure, so explain.
          1. Operator
            Operator April 11 2020 17: 38 New
            0
            There is such an expression - lying as an eyewitness: the fact that the tank was hit by a cumulative shell, and its crew is dead, does not mean that the cumulative stream has excessive pressure - the tank could well have been deflagrated by the powder charge of an artillery shot that was ignited by a cumulative stream and caused an internal shock wave.

            The cumulative jet does not carry excessive pressure, the detonation time of the explosive cumulative charge is less than the flight time of the jet, which plays the role of a cork in the armor from the external shock wave entering the tank. Tested in polygon experiments.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 17: 41 New
              -3
              Quote: Operator
              deflagration of the powder charge of an artillery shot
              Is deflagration a fire? In this book, not a word about the fire in the car.
              Quote: Operator
              The cumulative jet does not carry excessive pressure, the detonation time of the explosive .. ... which plays the role of a cork in the armor from the external shock wave entering the tank. It is checked up in polygon experiments.
              Let me not believe it. Proofs in the studio, as they say.
              1. Operator
                Operator April 11 2020 17: 51 New
                +1
                Deflagration is a chemical oxidation reaction (in this case, the charge of gunpowder), the transit time of which (0,01 s) occupies a middle position between combustion (0,1 s) and explosion (0,001 s).

                Deflagration occurs in the event of ignition of the powder in a confined space (of the barrel’s charging chamber when firing or of a cartridge case when a cumulative jet is pierced). With a chain deflagration of the entire ammunition, the tank knocks out a tower.

                Proofs pick up laziness.
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 17: 59 New
                  -4
                  Quote: Operator
                  Deflagration is a chemical oxidation reaction (in this case, the charge of gunpowder), the transit time of which (0,01 s) occupies a middle position between combustion (0,1 s) and explosion (0,001 s).
                  And doesn’t have a temperature, apparently?
                  DEFLAGRATION - flame propagation through a combustible gas mixture, occurring by diffusion of active centers and heat transfer from the flame front to the unburned mixture. Usually implemented at subsonic speeds. The minimum D. speed is comparable to the normal flame propagation speed ..
                  This your nonsense about deflagration has the same value as about the absence of excess pressure when penetrating armor with a K-jet. Zero.
                  Quote: Operator
                  The cumulative jet does not carry excessive pressure, the detonation time of the explosive cumulative charge is less than the flight time of the jet, which plays the role of a plug in the armor from the external shock wave entering the tank.

                  Quote: Operator
                  Proofs pick laziness
                  Perhaps because they are not?
                  The claim to the working umformer was never clarified.
                  1. Operator
                    Operator April 11 2020 18: 04 New
                    +1
                    Continue raving about the "overpressure" of the BOPS and the fluidized metal stream bully
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 18: 23 New
                      -5
                      Quote: Operator
                      Continue raving about the "overpressure" of the BOPS and the fluidized metal stream
                      What are the claims to BOPS? You do not ascribe to me too much. Perhaps the high-explosive armored action of modern CS is exaggerated by modern tanks. However, the tank is described in 1944 and the COP 1943-44. What do you write about deflagration?
                      About theformer?
                      1. garri-lin
                        garri-lin April 11 2020 19: 20 New
                        +3
                        Here you like to argue on topics in which you understand. The cumulative stream is formed during the explosion. When the final part of the cumulative stream passes through the armor, the explosion is already completed and the products of the explosion are dispersed. Pressure does not increase but decreases. For an armor-like action, an additional explosive charge is needed that will work with a slower relative to cumulative. And then it’s not enough because the hole is small. With concrete, this does not roll with metal.
                      2. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 20: 13 New
                        -5
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        The cumulative jet is formed during the explosion. When the final part of the cumulative stream passes through the armor, the explosion is already completed and the products of the explosion are dispersed.
                        You are so smart, probably a specialist in cumulative charges, is it similar to BOPS? Did the specialist know that the early CSs did not have a K-funnel lining? And that the absence of significant overpressure is true, partly, for the metal pestle and that, when breaking through a fairly thick armor.
                      3. garri-lin
                        garri-lin April 11 2020 23: 38 New
                        +2
                        Didn't have a facing? All or some? Or are you talking specifically about Faustpatron? What year of release? Weight BB 1650 grams. It's a lot? The essence of the cumulative jet, that with cladding that without cladding, forcing metal. With cladding more efficient. HC inflow will not be due to the fact that it passes at the time of forcing. Then there is simply nothing to numb. And it only partially depends on the thickness of the armor. And the second, perhaps the most important argument. World War 2 tanks were not hermetic. There were a huge number of holes in them. It is impossible to hit the crew inside the tank through a 5 cm hole.
                      4. Operator
                        Operator April 12 2020 03: 36 New
                        +1
                        Cumulative charges of pure explosives were used in the 1920s for crushing concrete (brittle material). The metal lining of the cumulative funnel was invented in the 1930s to break through metal (an elastic-plastic material).

                        Improving the design of cumulative PSUs has been and continues to be on the line of ensuring the accuracy of the geometric dimensions, cleanliness and monolithicity of explosives and cladding metal (not counting the transition to the use of more powerful explosives and denser metals).
                      5. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 08: 03 New
                        -4
                        Quote: Operator
                        Cumulative charges of pure explosives were used in the 1920s for crushing concrete (brittle material). The metal lining of the cumulative funnel was invented in the 1930s to break through metal (an elastic-plastic material).
                        Do you confuse the possibility in principle with the improvement of the possibility, or, in principle, do not break through a metal barrier with your K-charge without facing? Not very logical. Yes, the lining was used, but it is not mentioned anywhere that the disposable German RPG grenades had the lining.
                        [/ center] The diagram clearly shows that the thickness of the walls of the body and the lining of the funnel is the same, and this lining is used to hold the explosive charge shape, and not to form the pestle. This is not my speculation, grenades were used to form a charge
                        surrogate explosives
                        and explosives that did not allow the formation of a charge by filling the melt. By the way, it is not mentioned anywhere that the grenades of disposable German RPGs were lined.
                      6. garri-lin
                        garri-lin April 12 2020 11: 20 New
                        0
                        It is not strange, but surface surfing over the Internet has not given information about the facing of fauspairones. Judging by the photo there was something there. But from what material and what thickness it is not clear. Although by the end of the war, charges confidently pierced two diameters of armor, and this indicates a fairly perfect lining. If I am not mistaken, the charge without facing and the intrinsic diameter breaks with difficulty and then a good explosive. Erzats will not break.
                    2. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 07: 52 New
                      -1
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      Didn't have a facing? All or some? Or are you talking specifically about Faustpatron? What year of release?
                      What, it was hard to inquire before asking?
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      However, the tank is described in 1944 and the COP 1943-44.

                      https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=313400&p=18
                      IS-2 is described and some sort of grenade is most likely Panzerfaust / cartridge.
                      The diagram clearly shows that the thickness of the walls of the body and the lining of the funnel is the same, and this lining is used to maintain the explosive charge shape, and not to form the pestle. And this is not my speculation, grenades were used to form a charge
                      surrogate explosives
                      and explosives that did not allow the formation of a charge by filling the melt. By the way, it is not mentioned anywhere that the grenades of disposable German RPGs were lined.
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      The essence of the cumulative jet, that with cladding that without cladding, forcing metal. With cladding more efficient.
                      What punching ?! Breaking through armor, breaking through! In a jet or pestle, at space (4-5 km / s) speeds. You do not understand the difference between punching and breaking through, or what? Is a liquid jet pushing through a layer of liquid?
                      It feels like you are raving! Without cladding, the jets are explosive gases with cosmic speeds! A charge with a lining forms a pestle, but the pestle is only part of the cumulative stream. Even with the lining of the funnel, with a small thickness of the armor, the explosion gases burst into the reserved space
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      HC inflow will not be due to the fact that it passes at the time of forcing
                      Truth? And if the power for breaking through, not punching, what the hell punching is excessive? If the armor is already broken, and the energy of the jet is not exhausted yet? About this, did you at least have a glimpse of thought?
                      Are there confetti or explosion gases in the photo?
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      World War 2 tanks were not hermetic. There were a huge number of holes in them. It is impossible to hit the crew inside the tank through a 5 cm hole.
                      Try to blow up a firecracker in the bathroom, which is much less leakproof than the WWII tank, but quite comparable in internal volume, and then, when the ringing in the ears (light shell shock) passes, write nonsense, maybe such a simple example will reach you. Although what I mean, I remembered your mind and understanding of not even the simplest physics, but elementary things. You seem to understand something only about homemade strong drinks.
                      And yes, it was the leakage of the tank that could have caused the death of the crew from the book, memoirs. But you are unlikely to understand this.
                    3. garri-lin
                      garri-lin April 12 2020 11: 14 New
                      +1
                      Have you seen the cladding of the PG 7 VM? Or RPG 40? Or RPG 43? The thickness of the body and the thickness of the cladding hardly differ in thickness. Only by material.
                      The cumulative jet by the mechanism of influence of armor exactly pushes through. Only there are speeds such that the metal becomes liquid. Gases definitely burst. But just in what volume? And at what speed? The shock wave does not flow. It passes before breaking. The residual overpressure does not increase, at the point of explosion, but already decreases. Pressure leakage will not be critical. And the crew will not hurt much. The shell shock will be from the explosion on the surface of the armor. From leakage of pressure, namely pressure and not HC, the concussion will not increase. Such a leap in pressure will not lead to the death of a healthy person. He can finish a badly wounded man. A healthy fighter is not killed. It’s completely different if the armor is very thin. If even without a cumulative effect, the charge breaks through the armor. In this case, the crew can definitely die. But the hole will be completely different. But about death from leaks can be more detailed. What are you speaking about? About strong RPs directly close to the tank?
                    4. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 17: 37 New
                      -2
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      Have you seen the cladding of the PG 7 VM? Or RPG 40? Or RPG 43?
                      Have you brought them? I’m not too lazy, I brought a photo of German grenades. and I’ll bring it, but not grenades.
                      This is how the FACING of the funnel looks. Give a photo of the RPG-43. Compare FACING, with a stamped cone to form a charge, when pouring. The fact that you mentioned the PG-7VM is generally the troll’s behavior, or stupidity, because the RPG-7 has been in service since 1960, what does it have to do with the case described in the book in 1945 ?! Nevertheless, give a photo, purely for comparison of facings.
                      The mention of the RPG-40 is just the bottom, and you still reproach me:
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      Here you like to argue on topics in which you understand
                      You just don’t know a damn thing on this topic! RPG-40 is generally a high-explosive grenade!
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      Gases definitely burst. But just in what volume? And at what speed?
                      The bottom as it is, have you been banned in Google? The speed of a purely gas K-jet is not less than 5 km / s, gas production of tol about 700 L per kg without explosion, the temperature of the gases of explosion is 3000 Celsius, and the volume of gases is about 8000 l.
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      Weight BB 1650 grams
                      12 liters! Even if a quarter of the gas instantly ends up in the tank, it is INSTANTLY plus three cubic meters of incandescent poison.
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      From leakage of pressure, namely pressure and not HC, the concussion will not increase. Such a leap in pressure will not lead to the death of a healthy person. He can finish a badly wounded man. A healthy fighter is not killed.
                      Immediately obvious specialist in barotrauma, am I right?
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      But about death from leaks can be more detailed. What are you speaking about? About strong RPs directly close to the tank?
                      Oh, a glimpse of consciousness! Exactly.
                    5. garri-lin
                      garri-lin April 12 2020 19: 18 New
                      0
                      So you specifically tell about a facing. You see it in the photos of the fauspatron or not. Or in the pictures. A grenade launcher cited as the most obvious example. What should be the facing. There is no thick metal. What you were talking about in your previous post.
                      Now, according to your brilliant calculation of the explosion. All these words are just a concussion. Everything that you described happens long before the Probitic armor. Actually, all these processes create the conditions for the movement of the cumulative jet and the beginning of penetration. When the armor is completely pierced, all these hecaliters of gas with a temperature of 3000 C are already safely dispersed in space. 12 liters a quarter is 000 liters. What will make them instantly find themselves inside the tank through an opening with a diameter of even 3000 cm. The remaining three quarters of the explosion products will disperse into the surrounding space. And this 5 will be stupidly breaking into the crack. Think for yourself what nonsense post. And the shockwave inflicts barotrauma. And she at the moment of breaking through the armor already passes. She physical will not be able to leak into the hole. She is already gone.
                    6. The comment was deleted.
                    7. garri-lin
                      garri-lin April 13 2020 20: 15 New
                      0
                      I will not say anything about my opinion. Not accustomed to throwing such epithets. Google how the armor breaks through with a cumulative jet. HC puts up the pestle and leaves. Pest goes for the HC. How can a hydrocarbon leak into a hole if it leaves? How will a quarter of the gases released be inside the tank? I’ve got a head, but then I’ll learn how to use it.
                  2. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U April 13 2020 17: 04 New
                    -1
                    Quote: garri-lin
                    A grenade launcher cited as the most obvious example.
                    Incredible impudence, where is the “cited” image as an example? Where are the images of the RPG-43, for comparison. Once again, the Faust grenades did not have a special lining, like the RPG-43, the tin stamped part served only to form a charge funnel during production, and save it later, (for Faust)
                    There is an optimal value for the thickness of the lining, at which the maximum armor-piercing effect is achieved. If the thickness of the lining is too small, its mass is insufficient to form a normal cumulative jet.

                    https://studopedia.ru/3_3137_faktori-vliyayushchie-na-kumulyativnoe-deystvie.html
                    Well, your "competency" shows the RGD -40 as an example of cumulative ammunition.
                  3. garri-lin
                    garri-lin April 13 2020 20: 20 New
                    0
                    Why do you need images? They gave you an example. You, as usual, rewrite the topic. Was the fauns facing? It was. Did the pest form? But it’s hard to say. Judging by the breakdown places, there was a sing. Small diameter holes. A directed explosion without a jet stream will not leave such an opening. There the focus is completely different. And explain how all this affects the flow of a quarter of the explosion products into the tank?
                  4. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U April 13 2020 20: 27 New
                    0
                    Quote: garri-lin
                    They gave you an example
                    Is this such a set of letters? How cute.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Well, your "competency" shows the RGD -40 as an example of cumulative ammunition.
                    What answer to this, specialist?
                  5. garri-lin
                    garri-lin April 13 2020 22: 14 New
                    0
                    You really do not define sarcasm?
                  6. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U April 14 2020 07: 55 New
                    0
                    Quote: garri-lin
                    You really do not define sarcasm?
                    Sarcasm of which, please, in your comments I see mostly stupidity, apart from the messages about strong home-made drinks, of course, there is little sense in your loosely coupled comments, let alone "sarcasm".
                    Quote: garri-lin
                    A directed explosion without a jet stream will not leave such an opening. There the focus is completely different.
                    This is frank stupidity, although what is surprising, what a hole? Where is this hole? What diameter? What is the thickness of the broken barrier? Do you basically understand what a focus is in relation to a cumulative charge? There is not a single link from you, not a single photo to confirm your words, only some kind of stupidity.
                    Quote: garri-lin
                    Judging by the breakdown places to sing
                    What can you judge except a drunk? Where are these breakdown places, provide photos!
              2. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 13 2020 20: 34 New
                0
                Quote: garri-lin
                And explain how all this affects the flow of a quarter of the explosion products into the tank?
                And what's the point of explaining? The pictures do not reach you, but here you need to understand at all.
              3. garri-lin
                garri-lin April 13 2020 22: 18 New
                0
                Pictures are extremely informative. Especially where there is a lot of fire and a lot of explosion products and everything looks cool but in fact a drop in the ocean. The front of the shock wave reflected from the armor is perfectly visible in your photograph. Take a closer look at the top of the photo.
              4. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 14 2020 08: 00 New
                0
                Quote: garri-lin
                The front of the shock wave reflected from the armor is perfectly visible in your photograph. Take a closer look at the top of the photo.
                What is happening behind the barrier does not interest you at all, I'm sorry, but this is idiocy.
                You saw the front, but what is going on behind the obstacle ?! There is such an expression, "hollow in the eyes," I'm afraid it applies to you fully.
              5. garri-lin
                garri-lin April 15 2020 09: 56 New
                0
                Where is the pronounced shock wave in the near-field space in the photo? Where are a quarter of the explosion products infiltrated into the open space? You have given a pretty good photo, but based on it you say absolutely absurd things. And as evidence, cite what is a clear refutation of your words.
              6. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 15 2020 10: 31 New
                0
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                There is such an expression, "hollow in the eyes," I'm afraid it applies to you fully.
        2. garri-lin
          garri-lin April 13 2020 22: 20 New
          0
          By the way, do not explain where the metal “for shaping” disappeared at the time of the explosion? Formed an inferior pestle? Evaporated? Returned to the warehouse with a wave of magical power? Shaped a full-fledged pestle?
        3. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U April 14 2020 08: 16 New
          0
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          There is an optimal value for the thickness of the lining, at which the maximum armor-piercing effect is achieved. If the thickness of the lining is too small, its mass is insufficient to form a normal cumulative jet.
          https://studopedia.ru/3_3137_faktori-vliyayushchie-na-kumulyativnoe-deystvie.html

          You didn’t master it.
          Quote: garri-lin
          By the way, do not explain where the metal “for shaping” disappeared at the time of the explosion? Formed an inferior pestle? Evaporated? Returned to the warehouse with a wave of magical power? Shaped a full-fledged pestle?

          I do not know, although I suppose that metal tin the cone-shaped part just evaporated (part of the gas stream) partly, partly sprayed, but since you basically don’t give a damn about the logic of my answers, as well as the logic in general, be puzzled by these questions yourself, but as Lenin said, perhaps: "One "an extremely stupid individual" can ask so many questions that a hundred wise men will not answer "/ V.I. Lenin PSS Volume 8 p. 15, work "How do we transform RabKrin." Are you asking too many questions without the slightest understanding of the answers.
        4. garri-lin
          garri-lin April 15 2020 10: 00 New
          0
          Will the metal evaporate? Laughing in a vest. I'm crying. The metal temperature is in any case higher than the evaporation point. But vapor does not give him pressure. Even with the coolest cladding. Links to give you master. But you can’t read about what you are discussing. Evaporating Find out the essence of the process of forming a jet jet first.
        5. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U April 15 2020 10: 29 New
          0
          Quote: garri-lin
          Will the metal evaporate? Laughing in a vest

          During welding, metals are heated to a temperature that can be equal to or close to the boiling point, as a result of which 1 their intense evaporation occurs

          https://studwood.ru/1001671/tovarovedenie/isparenie_metalla_pri_svarke
          Iron Boiling Point 3134 K (2861 ° C) Wiki
          TNT explosion temperature reaches 3000C
          http://www.mining-portal.ru/library/char_bombs/parametr_bombs/
          Let me remind you that it was a tin (Tin - cold-rolled annealed sheet steel with a thickness of 0,10-1,2 mm) parts with insufficient mass for the formation of a jet.
          Can you compare these four facts? Although what I’ve been talking about for a long time, at least in your depressing literacy that you are a poorly educated character, you are logically simply not able to think, elementary facts are not able to compare.
          Quote: garri-lin
          But vapor does not give him pressure. Even with the coolest cladding.
          What illogical idiocy, this and that, this "coolest cladding" is the lousiest tin in the most cheap ammunition, if you even remember what it is about.
        6. garri-lin
          garri-lin April 15 2020 11: 43 New
          0
          And you are aware that the coolest cladding, I don’t remember the name of the alloy, is more plastic than copper and the temperature that the melting and boiling there is much less than that of steel. And at the same time, these metals are much better suited to forming a cum jet than steel. Something perpendicular to your logic with the evaporation of steel. Thin cladding was considered sufficient. The armor penetration of the fauspatron was sufficient to defeat most tanks. Why would the Germans increase armor penetration by improving the cladding if armor penetration is sufficient? They tried to increase the range with all their might. And an increase in the weight of a projectile will entail a decrease in range. Why would they increase the thickness of the cladding?
  • Fat
    Fat April 12 2020 02: 40 New
    +1
    Not bad, now the main thing is not to confuse defloration .... You’re Andrew, forgive me ... But the self-isolation mode promotes laughter ... uyeyuyuyuchki and drink. hahankam ...
    Thank. Normally with laziness ... Let’s figure it out ...
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA April 11 2020 18: 40 New
    +3
    Quote: Operator
    I’m talking about a cumulative stream that "kills the crew", but leaving the umformer left to rotate - Litmir as he is (senseless and merciless)

    There is one subtle point ... all the refutations of the impact of the cumulative PSU on the crew are based on tests of modern ammunition. The design of which is licked in order to maximize armor penetration.
    And in Berlin, Panzerfausts 100 worked on tanks. The design of which was not so optimized in terms of breaking through armor, but which at the same time had significant high-explosive action (non-optimal design we compensate for the weight of explosives smile ) Isaev’s “Berlin-45” presented the results of tests of “fausts” on shielded tanks - in all cases, as a result of a grenade explosion, the screen did not just break through, but either collapsed or fell off the mounts (and the main armor made its way with and without the screen )
    1. Operator
      Operator April 11 2020 19: 07 New
      0
      The pre-war or today's design of cumulative ammunition does not play a role - they all pierce a hole in the armor with the same diameter (~ 5 cm), through which it is impossible to leak a few kilograms of explosive into the tank from an explosion - all the more so that about penetration, an inverse directional jet of particles of armor “washed out” of the hole by a cumulative jet arises.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 20: 23 New
        -1
        Quote: Operator
        The pre-war or today's design of cumulative ammunition does not matter
        Wow, i.e. you do not know that the early CS did not have the lining of the funnel, not counting the tin on some samples? And the penetration of armor was carried out precisely by a bundle of gases, not a metal pestle. And yes, what about deflagration and theformer?
        1. Saxahorse
          Saxahorse April 12 2020 00: 27 New
          +1
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          And the penetration of armor was carried out precisely by a bundle of gases, not a metal pestle.

          What than what? What else is a "gas bundle"! ?? You still try to drag elven magic .. laughing

          A stream of liquid metal pushes metal through at a pressure of 10-15 tons per square centimeter. just like a jet of water pushes through snow or sand on a beach. And, of course, nothing flows inside, the damaging factors of the Qom are the jet itself, plus small fragments of armor and aggregates destroyed by the jet.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 08: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Saxahorse
            What than what? What else is a "gas bundle"! ?? You still try to drag elven magic.
            The fact that the cumulative charges and without cladding may be and you did not know. A tourniquet or jet, then if the difference is fundamental to you, then the K-jet formed by the gases of the explosion.
            Quote: Saxahorse
            A stream of liquid metal pushes metal through at a pressure of 10-15 tons per square centimeter. just like a jet of water pushes through snow or sand on a beach
            Another crusher, you don’t understand the difference between punching and breaking through? Something has never met the term "armor-piercing ammunition." The fact that "liquid metal" is a melt you also do not understand. But the pestle metal is not liquid, but pseudo-liquid and interacts with a metal barrier not like water with "snow" (what rubbish, water and snow are completely different in density), and not like a stream of water with sand (sand particles do not fastened), but like a DROP of a liquid with a liquid barrier, only because of the huge pressures acting on both of them.
            Quote: Saxahorse
            And of course, nothing flows inside,
            The absence of significant overpressure for the metal pestle, which is PART OF the K-jet, is only partially true when piercing a fairly thick armor. But everything changes if the power for breaking through, not forcing, what the hell forcing is excessive, if the armor is already broken, and the energy of the jet is not exhausted.
            1. Saxahorse
              Saxahorse April 12 2020 21: 46 New
              0
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              The fact that the cumulative charges and without cladding may be and you did not know.

              Right I don’t know about such a miracle. For it will not be a godfather by definition. laughing

              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              The fact that "liquid metal" is a melt you also do not understand.

              No, I don’t understand. Liquid metal is precisely liquid, due to high pressure, metal. This is not a drop or melt, a phase transition does not occur, and the temperature of the jet itself, 450-600 degrees, is much lower than the melting point of the same copper. Once again - it's just liquid metal!

              Where did you get all this nonsense about some kind of K-stream? For 50 years, all this is no secret .. Just read the descriptions of the physics of the process.
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 13 2020 16: 57 New
                -1
                Quote: Saxahorse
                For it will not be godfather by definition
                Do not scatter words.


                LMG anti-tank flying mine
                The mine is a tin case, inside of which there is a charge of TNT, which has a cumulative recess in the front.

                There is an optimal value for the thickness of the lining, at which the maximum armor-piercing effect is achieved. If cladding thickness is too small, its mass is insufficient for the formation of a normal cumulative jet.

                https://studopedia.ru/3_3137_faktori-vliyayushchie-na-kumulyativnoe-deystvie.html
                The Faust grenades did not have a special lining, like the RPG-43, the tin stamped part served only to form a charge funnel during production, and save it later (for Faust).

                Quote: Saxahorse
                Liquid metal is precisely liquid, due to high pressure, metal. This is not a drop or melt, a phase transition does not occur, and the temperature of the jet itself, 450-600 degrees

                You wipe your eyes, or something. Phase transition still dragged.
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                The fact that "liquid metal" is a melt you also do not understand. And the metal of the jet is not liquid, but pseudo-liquid
                Once again, liquid metal is liquid - it is molten metal - liquid that can be poured somewhere laughing . Copper metals and barriers are pseudo-fluid, quasi-fluid, and then only at the point of contact. Perhaps you simply did not understand the terminology. The shock nucleus is also formed as a result of a K-explosion, however, immediately after formation, the pressure on it decreases, is it also liquid?

                Quote: Saxahorse
                nonsense about some kind of K-stream picked up
                What? K-jet, cumulative jet - KS, just KS, it is also a cumulative projectile. To avoid confusion.
                1. Saxahorse
                  Saxahorse April 14 2020 00: 09 New
                  0
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  Once again, liquid metal is liquid - it is molten metal - liquid that can be poured somewhere

                  I don’t even understand how to explain this to you .. Who are you by education? Poet?

                  Open any guide to sopromat and you will find a coefficient called "yield strength". This parameter means exactly what is written in its name, at what pressure the given metal begins to flow. Which is characteristic, without any melt. wink
                2. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U April 14 2020 07: 30 New
                  0
                  Quote: Saxahorse
                  I don’t even understand how to explain this to you .. Who are you by education? Poet?
                  I do not understand
                  Quote: Saxahorse
                  at what pressure does the metal begin to flow

                  Does it become fluid from this? Give a link where it says that when the yield strength is exceeded, the metal becomes liquid!
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 11 2020 20: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Operator
      the same diameter (~ 5 cm)
      Maybe not cm, but mm.? I hope you are sealed up.
      1. Operator
        Operator April 11 2020 23: 27 New
        +1
        The diameter of the hole from breaking through the armor with a cumulative jet is about several centimeters - in 1945, depending on the quality of focusing of the German cumulative PSUs, the diameter was from 2 to 5 cm (on average, with a Soviet coin of five cents).

        "Witch's Kiss" - the terminology of the surviving tankers of the Red Army.
  • Saxahorse
    Saxahorse April 12 2020 00: 33 New
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Isaev’s “Berlin-45” presented the results of tests of “fausts” on shielded tanks - in all cases, as a result of a grenade explosion, the screen did not just break through, but either collapsed

    And what is the connection? Yes, anti-Qom screens are usually useless. But no flow of hydrocarbons into the tank at the same time everything happens early if there is no extensive armor break. And as a rule, it does not occur when the godfather is triggered. The stories about the "dead crew" after the Faustpatron are just soldier's tales. There are a lot of them left after any war.
  • Fat
    Fat April 11 2020 23: 20 New
    +1
    Uformer, Andrey, UFORMER ... mechanical frequency converter.
    Sincerely.
    A brilliant thing before the invention of the local oscillator and superheterodyne
  • Battle Cat
    Battle Cat April 11 2020 15: 25 New
    +2
    Steel Gadfield, and Garfield is such a red cat)))), thanks ...
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 11 2020 18: 04 New
    0
    “30% of the armored plates tested by shelling could not stand the first hit” on October 18, 1944, Hitler ordered the formation of Volkssturm detachments, and they armed themselves with all kinds of ersatz weapons: single-shot carbines made using the most simplified technology. Or even rifles without cartridges. Actually a weapon for disposable soldiers. He has subsided - his happiness, but no .... he is to blame. Approximately tanks using such simplified technology. He has survived - his happiness, but not to blame. It was necessary to bypass the VET
    1. Fat
      Fat April 11 2020 23: 40 New
      +1
      No need to fool around, or something ...
      Svyatoslav, our militias also armed with anything from the Thomsons to Arisaki. The Germans, in addition to bottles of cops, also had faunas ...
      Let's just say, by "unification"
      1. vladcub
        vladcub April 12 2020 14: 35 New
        +1
        I am not a fool. The Lord is with you .. I just say that Volkssturm was armed with the most simplified technologies. Naturally, this was done "not from a good life" so accurately and the Germans began to produce tanks using simplified technology.
        What did they carry out shelling of armor before, and then suddenly became lazy? Their haste forced them to go to the maximum simplification and cheapening. And the rush will not bring to good.
        1. Fat
          Fat April 12 2020 15: 05 New
          0
          I understand that somehow, if only thicker ... We hoped for an earlier experience and the German "maybe" ... And they straightened the front line over and over when they pressed ... Nevertheless, the German engineering school in the last days of the Reich was at an excellent level to the very end. The Soviet army in Berlin did not slaughter the Volkssturm, but knocked out the most elite units of the Wehrmacht and the SS ...
  • Operator
    Operator April 11 2020 20: 25 New
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    In the know ... that the early COPs did not have a K-funnel lining?

    Yes, yes, yes: that’s how it is written in Litmir laughing
  • Undecim
    Undecim April 11 2020 22: 12 New
    +2
    Garfield alloy
    Let me say that such an alloy does not exist. There is Hadfield steel (Robert Hadfield).
    1. Fat
      Fat April 12 2020 02: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Undecim
      Garfield alloy
      Let me say that such an alloy does not exist. There is Hadfield steel (Robert Hadfield).

      Any steel is an alloy. At a minimum, iron and carbon. What is wrong with you ??
      Sincerely.
      1. Svarog51
        Svarog51 April 12 2020 09: 23 New
        +4
        It's not about alloy or steel, but about the name of the author. Haрfield and haдfield.
        1. your1970
          your1970 April 12 2020 17: 29 New
          0
          I’m wrong most likely, I’m hearing Garfield, from his father’s textbook on Soviet to tractors .. .I once read it out of sports interest
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 April 12 2020 19: 15 New
            +3
            Namesake hi I didn’t address the explanation to you; everything has already settled down.
            Congratulations on Palm Sunday. Well, with Cosmonautics Day. Health to you and your family.
      2. Undecim
        Undecim April 12 2020 09: 31 New
        +3
        Everything is fine with me. And how are you?
        It was not a substance that was meant, but its name, specifically the surname of the English metallurgist - Hadfield.
        1. Fat
          Fat April 12 2020 09: 37 New
          +2
          Almost the norm))) Self-isolation rules.
          I realized my blunder. I repent, I hastened not at once. I looked through it. Accept an apology.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim April 12 2020 09: 41 New
            +1
            I accept. All with the Day of Cosmonautics.
            1. vladcub
              vladcub April 12 2020 15: 16 New
              +2
              Accepted. All comrades with Palm Sunday. Peace, kindness and patience. "As a dark night gives way to a clear day, so the present ones have grown to recede" (from a sermon)
              1. Svarog51
                Svarog51 April 12 2020 19: 28 New
                +3
                Svyatoslav hi Allow me to join in your congratulations. HEALTH TO ALL!
  • Elturisto
    Elturisto April 14 2020 12: 21 New
    0
    Excellent article. Thank you. An excellent answer to all admirers of the German technical genius ...