Aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces in a likely confrontation with the Turkish Hawk XXI. Is pathos of the Ukrainian media justified?

As you know, a photograph published two weeks earlier by the Turkish news agency IHA (Ihlas) deployed on the Turkish-Syrian border (a few kilometers from the northern border of the Big Idlib) of the Hawk XXI anti-aircraft missile battalion overnight became a subject of universal admiration and pompous comments in the Ukrainian media space, prompting journalists of the notorious information publication Dialogue.ua to prepare a short analytical note “Turkey deployed the powerful Hawk XXI air defense systems on the border with Syria, sp special get Russian Aviation».

From dreams to reality

Technological disadvantages of the radar architecture of the updated military air defense systems "Hawk XXI". What miscalculated Ukrainian pseudo-experts?

Undoubtedly, taking into account the ongoing active preparations against the Sochi accords, the defense department and the General Staff of the Turkish Armed Forces for the next escalation turn at the Idlib theater of operations, which provides for the successful counter-offensive throw of the Turkish army and the Islamist group Hayat Tahrir al-Sham in the direction of the previously lost important settlements of Serakib, Maarat al-Numan and the M5 motorway, hysterical jubilation of politically biased ovannyh Ukrainian mass media in connection with the advent of improved "Hawk the XXI" near "idlibskogo gadyushnik" reasonable.

Indeed, taking into account the tragic situation with the well-planned interception of the Russian Su-24M front-line bomber by the Turkish Air Force AIM-9X Block II short-range air strike, it is easy to come to the conclusion that having a range of about 45 km and a height of intercepted targets of 20 km Turkish air defense system "Hawk XXI" may well be involved in counteracting tactical aviation of the Aerospace Forces of Russia and the Syrian Air Force, providing air support to the defense units of the 4th fur lowered division and the 25th division of the Special Forces of the Syrian Arab Army.

Meanwhile, using only two of the main (listed above) parameters of the Hawk XXI complex, the pseudo-experts of Dialog provided an ordinary Ukrainian audience with a biased forecast of the scenario of a likely collision of multi-role fighters of the Russian air force and Syrian air force with the battery of the updated Turkish Hawk.

In particular, even despite the possibility of equipping the updated Hawk XXI air defense system with a more advanced all-angle illumination and guidance radar AN / MPQ-61 HIPIR with an expanded elevation-scanning zone, which ensures work on small targets at heights of 25-30 m, as well as the fact of deployment of a Turkish battery of Hawk XXI air defense systems at a height of several tens of meters (judging by the photo published by Ihlas reporters), providing the AN / MPQ-61 backlight radar with a radio horizon range of 45–55 km, a chance of maintaining combat stability bility in this complex will be negligible. Why?

The use in the electronic architecture of the AN / MPQ-61HIPIR radars of obsolete paired X-band parabolic antenna arrays (similar to those used in the early AN / MPQ-46 on-load tap-changers), designed to illuminate targets with the MIM-23K / J anti-aircraft missile launcher and transmit additional radio correction commands to The aerodynamic steering wheel control computer kept the target channel of one Hawk XXI air defense system at the same level - one intercepted target.

As you know, in the case of the probable use of the Su-34 multipurpose fighter-bomber of the Russian air force, the 3,5-, 4-fly missile X-58U anti-radar missiles, or the 2,2-swing multi-purpose tactical missiles of the X-38MTE / MAE family, single-channel Hawk air defense systems XXI ”will instantly turn into mountains of useless scrap metal, just as in the case of a meeting with the Syrian Su-24M equipped with X-25MPU anti-radar missiles. And this is not to mention the extremely low level of noise immunity of the receiving paths of the HIPIR radar parabolic antennas, which are practically incapable of counteracting the interference from the container systems of the Khibiny EW family.

Comments

[Thrifty]

The Turks, unlike us, do not have an integrated air defense system, therefore they modernize such hopeless junk, and most importantly, this is a preventive ground attack on the positions of Turkish air defense systems!

[zyablik.olga]

Quote: Thrifty

Turks, unlike us, do not have a comprehensive air defense system

The anti-missile capabilities of the Patriot air defense missile systems deployed in Turkey are really not great, the Turkish S-400 air defense systems are higher. You are very much mistaken about the absence of an "integrated air defense system" in Turkey.

[KCA]

Is there a Patriot in Turkey? Strange, it seems like the supply was banned by the US Congress after the purchase of the S-400, or so, just blurt out?

[Bongo]

Quote: KCA

Is there a Patriot in Turkey? Strange, it seems like the supply was banned by the US Congress after the purchase of the S-400, or so, just blurt out?

Maybe Olga is better informed than you? In Turkey, at least one battery belonging to Spain is located at Incirlik airbase, but in fact, the actions of the air defense systems are controlled by the Americans.

[KCA]

One battery will cover the whole of Turkey, moreover, it was supplied in 2014, and which option was sold to Spain? Not 1981? Hell air defense / missile defense, range 24km, don’t tell my slippers straight, S-400 is also in export version, but the range is not less than 200km

[Bongo]

Quote: KCA

One battery will cover all of Turkey ...

Are S-400 air defense systems delivered to Turkey enough to cover the entire territory of the country? It seems to me that you are trying to engage in demagogy.

Quote: KCA

and what version of Spain have they sold? Not 1981?

You claim that Spain delivered PAC-1.

Quote: KCA

Hell air defense / missile defense, range 24km

Range of 24 km for aerodynamic targets?

Quote: KCA

S-400 is also in export version, but the range is already not less than 200km

Do I understand correctly that this is a range for ballistic targets? It may be worthwhile to indicate the maximum firing range in the air defense and missile defense for each system separately, and not adjust the numbers to the desired.

Quote: KCA

don't tell me my slippers

I don’t know what your relationship with your slippers is, but you wrote this:

Quote: KCA

Is there a Patriot in Turkey?

There is a Patriot in Turkey, which is what you were told.

[KCA]

Turkey has a Patriot, but not Turkey, how and what it will shoot is not decided by Turkey, the range of the Patriots of the 1981 model is 24 km for aviation, further modifications are more, but which unit was sold and delivered to Spain, you know? I do not, but I think that not the most perfect

[Bongo]

Quote: KCA

There is a Patriot in Turkey, but not Turkey, but Turkey decides how and what it will shoot

As part of NATO's allied commitments, the Patriot air defense system ensures the protection of the airspace of the Turkish Republic.

Quote: KCA

the range of the Patriots of the 1981 model 24km for aviation

You write nonsense.

Quote: KCA

which sold and delivered to Spain, you know? I do not, but I think that not the most perfect

This is open, public information. In Spain, the upgraded PAC-2.

[Lelek]

Quote: zyablik.olga

Anti-missile capabilities of Patriot air defense systems deployed in Turkey are really not great

Yes, and Iran managed to crack the Patriot system:

[Avior]

Preventive strike on Turkish territory is fraught with serious consequences

[andrewkor]

Definitely, the straits will be blocked! Only the air corridor through Iran and Iraq will remain, which is a very shaky construction!

[Lipchanin]

Quote: andrewkor

Definitely, the straits will block

Do not block.
And if they try, then A. Gromyko warned them that instead of one strait, there will be three, but Istanbul will not

[DPN]

It’s good that you remember HISTORY, only the power of the former USSR and today's Russia are not comparable!

[KCA]

After a preemptive strike, only memories will remain from Turkey, well, and the ruins of Ishtambul, but the Armenians will be happy

[Chaldon48]

Turks will not go to a large-scale conflict with Russia, as they do not want to lose Russian gas and fuel rods for nuclear power plants

[Stalllker]

I don’t think they need these fuel rods, according to the contract this station will be Russian and the service will also be ours. I'm wondering something else, is there an algorithm in the management of this station to make a "boom-drum" out of it ???

[Karaul14]

Quote: Chaldon48

Turks will not go to a large-scale conflict with Russia, as they do not want to lose Russian gas and fuel rods for nuclear power plants

The Turks have repeatedly shown that they are ready to go to conflict. And what kind of fear is this for the buyer to lose the seller? Everything is always the opposite.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Chaldon48

Turks will not go to a large-scale conflict with Russia, as they do not want to lose Russian gas and fuel rods for nuclear power plants

Do not forget the tourists
And this is a solid part of the replenishment of the budget

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Lipchanin

Do not forget the tourists
And this is a solid part of the replenishment of the budget

18% of the total number of tourists.
Everything is mostly on All-Inclusive.

The share of profit from these 18% of tourists is less than 7%.
Those. the role of Russian tourists for the economy is greatly exaggerated.

[Vasya17]

The American company Westnghouse is already making fuel rods for reactors from the USSR.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Vasya17

The American company Westnghouse is already making fuel rods for reactors from the USSR.

Only in the outskirts of these fuel rods almost destroyed more than one nuclear power plant

[Vasya17]

half of the reactors are working on them right now

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Chaldon48

Turks will not go to a large-scale conflict with Russia, as they do not want to lose Russian gas and fuel rods for nuclear power plants

Turkey has long been a gas hub.
They have more than enough non-Russian gas.

And they do not need any fuel elements - they still have no nuclear power plants.

And besides, Westinghouse, kmk, has already stolen up to replace our TVELs.
For the hype about the accidents at Ukrainian nuclear power plants subsided.

[Olddetractor]

The combat control system of the Hawk XXI complex is created on open source software and has civilian industrial interfaces. There is nothing more interesting in it. The collective farm enthusiasm of the Ukrainian media corresponds to the level of bold ideas of its readers

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Olddetractor

The collective farm enthusiasm of the Ukrainian media corresponds to the level of bold ideas of its readers

Yes, just give them a reason to jump

[Avior]

Damantsev is right and wrong.
On the one hand, a single air defense system against modern aviation will not survive if there is a concentrated aviation strike.
On the other hand, the Turks are clearly not going to use the air defense system openly.
It will not light up, receiving information from other sources - radars in Turkish territory and AWACS aircraft from the depths of Turkish territory.
They will turn on only before starting and immediately turn off. In fact, shoot from an ambush. And the fight against him in this case will be noticeably complicated, in addition, it will have to conduct separate operations against air defense systems, and even in Turkey

[Paul Siebert]

hysterical jubilation of politically biased Ukrainian media in connection with the appearance of an improved “Hawk XXI” near the “Idlib adder”

Yesterday I watched "Anna-News" from the suburbs of Donetsk.
Old people on benches near five-story Khrushchevs play dominoes, talk about coronavirus, prices in stores, and meager pensions.
They are smiling at the correspondent and are invited to sit down.
It seems like a peaceful picture, but cannonade is constantly behind the scenes. Branches and thick branches were cut off on the still unblown trees.
“Don’t worry!” They reassure the guy, “this is not for us, it’s in the Sands. Since five in the morning, they shoot from XNUMXs ...”
I believe these experts. They are at the epicenter of this nightmare.
And what will the "Ukrainian mass media" say about these old people?
They say nothing, probably ...

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Paul Siebert

And what will the "Ukrainian mass media" say about these old people?

And there’s one template.
"Putin's propaganda"

[Moon]

Quote: Paul Siebert

And what will the "Ukrainian mass media" say about these old people?
They say nothing, probably.

not really. They give material about similar shelling of civilian infrastructure-Avdeevka, Maryanka and others under control.
Both sides fire at old children and infrastructure. Simply, each shows its own.

[rotmistr60]

Everything in this world has been turned upside down. Turkey deployed air defense systems on the Syrian border, while Ukrainians are thrilled. And what they can’t really understand for themselves can’t be fixated on the fact that the air defense systems are against Russian aviation. You would think that ours did not foresee such a scenario and that the Turks really surprised them, and most importantly, according to the Ukrainian version, they scared them.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: rotmistr60

that air defense systems against russian aviation

This is the meaning of enthusiasm.
No matter what is directed, it is important that against the Russian Federation
The logic of a typical skakuas is straight as a gyrus in the brain

[jovanni]

As you know, in the case of the likely use of multi-role fighter-bomber Su-34 Russian aerospace forces ...

Here the word "probable" should be replaced by "unlikely" or "improbable". Opportunities are one thing, but reality ... None of the Russian command will take responsibility for ordering a direct attack on the Turkish air defense. And this has nothing to do with technical capabilities. But the Turks can. They'll just say later - "Oh! We didn't want to ..." Or maybe they won't. Why should they, our tourists still do not go to them, they have nothing to lose ...

[rocket757]

“Turkey has deployed on the border with Syria the heavy-duty Hawk XXI air defense systems capable of getting Russian aircraft.”

"powerfully" written!
This is not even a DEFINITION, this is pf-e.
Modern means of attack and neutralization of such under-defense, have capabilities, parameters, a couple of orders of magnitude higher ....

[Zaurbek]

Can sank from under the silence .... if they did not respond to the last shot at Su24, then they sag. Stinger starts regularly. They do not get it, now they get it.

[steelmaker]

Yes, Ukrainians rejoice that Putin screwed up with his agreements with Erdogan. His Turks threw again, insolently violating the agreement. And now WRONG them to expel them from Idlib!

[huntsman650]

If you turn on the complexes, while the target is in the affected area. And the data can be obtained from radars located in the rear or from friends. Then you won’t get into trouble. Then they curled up and drove off. It all depends on the tactics.

[Zaurbek]

Data is shared by NATO from constantly flying AWACS and Radars in the region .... and there are a lot of them. I think Israel will share.

[xomaNN]

I really want to believe that Assad, with his uncoordinated actions, will not push Russia and Turkey into conflict in a real war. This scenario is very desirable for many "third forces".

It is important for Russia to exclude possible attacks on our bases in Syria, which are not far from Idlib. And in Syria, it would be quite reasonable in the province bordering with the Turks to create autonomy for the Turkoman, loyal to Damascus. Assad clearly has no strength to control Syria within its former borders.

[Sarcasm]

Ukrainians just insanity. The Turks did not throw air defense systems at Hawk into Syria, from their own territory they would venture to shoot down only the Syrian Air Force planes.
At the same time, the Turks transferred to Syria in addition to the Stinger MANPADS, and also the Rapira 2000 air defense system, this is more than enough.
I think the Turks will not aggravate now, their heads are also occupied by the coronovirus. Gradually strengthen their positions and transfer troops. The calculation is simple, everyone behind the coronovirus forgot about the unfolding economic crisis and falling oil prices, we are entering the crisis this time, to put it mildly, not in the best condition, so most likely as the crisis develops we will curtail our actions in Syria and will not be able to support that the same intensity of actions of our aviation as before. AWACS aircraft, fighter jets, KHOK along the borders, and Singer with Rapiers in Syria itself will allow the Turks to simply destroy the remnants of the Syrian Air Force, and without them the ground group is weak.