Military Review

Donbass and Ukraine: “brothers” forever

109
Donbass and Ukraine: “brothers” forever

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April 6 is a significant date in the newest stories Donbass. On this day, as if obeying a team of unknown coordinators (most likely, it was), activists in Lugansk and Donetsk seized the buildings of the regional state administration and SBU.

In Donetsk, the RSA was not captured for the first or even the second time. Before that, people broke into the session hall, demanded that deputies vote for a referendum on the status of Donbass, they even spent the night there, but they left the building over and over, supposedly in connection with the administration's mining, or simply not understanding why they should be there.

This time everything was much more serious - the people walked purposefully. Probably, the protest coordinators realized that it was time to go all-in, otherwise it would be the same as in other areas: the secret services would arrest the leaders one by one, and the inhabitants would simply be dispersed. Law enforcers practically did not prevent the seizure of government buildings, and in Lugansk, as if by prior arrangement, they were brought from all the cities and regions of the region weapon and ammunition. For comparison: in Donetsk SBU, according to participants in the events, they managed to get hold of only wooden dummies of machine guns.

This is war


It is not known why law enforcement officers didn’t recapture the captured objects (the languid attempts of nationalists in Donetsk do not count), but on April 7, a few days before Strelkov-Girkin and his people appeared on the stage, Acting Head of the Verkhovna Rada Alexander Turchinov announced his readiness to use anti-terrorism measures against protesters. It seems that bloodshed could not be avoided regardless of the appearance of Girkin in Slavyansk, in connection with which his statement that it was he who “started the war in the Donbass” seems somewhat self-confident. A war would have taken place anyway.

Kiev was at hand. At least in order to distract the attention of Ukrainians from the lost Crimea, it was urgently necessary to defeat someone. Why not pro-Russian citizens in the Donbass who did not hide their desire to join Russia according to the Crimean scenario? In those days, Kiev was probably able to cope with the protest in the Donbass through diplomacy, promises, or special force operations. Instead, troops and armored vehicles were thrown against people still quite peacefully disposed. The reaction of the inhabitants of Donbass, especially after the first deaths at the hands of the Ukrainian military, was quite adequate - the population immediately organized themselves into the militia, and there were several orders of magnitude more people who wanted to join its ranks than small arms.

Farewell to the Slavic


Having adopted a declaration of sovereignty on April 7, 2014 and securing it in a referendum on May 12, Lugansk and Donetsk challenged Kiev, to which it responded with the full power of its military machine, wiping entire villages off the face of the earth and massively destroying recent compatriots. The bifurcation point was passed: the very idea of ​​the return of Donbass to Ukraine lives only in the Minsk agreements that are not respected and the panic fears of the guard patriots.

Today, six years later, there are still those who are wondering: was it worth it? Probably, here everyone should decide independently, but the author is sure: despite all the losses, to the detriment of industry and the economy, to all the turmoil and problems of the transition period, all these victims are justified. Because we and our children will speak our own language, go to our church, and no one will impose the notorious European values, fascism, nationalism or demshizu on Donbass.

Because, albeit slowly, albeit not immediately, but the Donbass will become part of Russia. Its population is already receiving Russian passports, and sooner or later the day will come when the Ukrainian passport in Lugansk or Donetsk will become a curiosity. Because after everything experienced, after all the atrocities of Kiev, which continue even today, looking at the compromising position of the Ukrainians, it becomes quite obvious that Donbass and Ukraine were never close, so this divorce, no matter how painful it may be, is inevitable and correct decision.

Yes, much has been done wrong and much still needs to be corrected or finalized, but much has been done. LDNR has something to be proud of!
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  1. Ros 56
    Ros 56 April 7 2020 18: 04 New
    14
    Yes, it was clear back in 14-15 after such a mesilov, that Donbas would never fall under banderlogs. Their main task, these Bandera savages multiplied by zero and bring the country in order. That's why such a tyagomotin stretches.
    1. DMB 75
      DMB 75 April 7 2020 18: 20 New
      +9
      I agree that after such a blood of peace and forgiveness, Bandera will not be anymore. They did everything for this in Kiev.
      1. Overlock
        Overlock April 7 2020 18: 38 New
        15
        Quote: DMB 75
        I agree that after such a blood of peace and forgiveness, Bandera will not be anymore. They did everything for this in Kiev.

        without a doubt. But how long will LDNR last?
        1. DMB 75
          DMB 75 April 7 2020 18: 47 New
          26
          As long as Russia will help. Here, nevertheless, it was necessary to do the same with Crimea at 14, sanctions still could not be avoided, and how many human lives they would have saved ... I don’t understand why this wasn’t done because of my feeble mind. I had to say "b". I do not understand and do not accept such a policy, neither yours nor ours, nor a candle to God, nor a damn poker ...
          1. Overlock
            Overlock April 7 2020 19: 11 New
            15
            Quote: DMB 75
            Due to my feeble mind, I do not understand why this was not done. Having said "a" I had to say "b".

            everything is simple, dear comrade - grandmas! A certain Swiss came to ours and they talked. The attack on Mariupol was canceled, and then .... everything is clear
            1. dvina71
              dvina71 April 7 2020 20: 31 New
              -1
              Quote: Overlock
              The attack on Mariupol was canceled,

              What forces? Offensive by what forces?
              Do you recall the situation of summer 14g? Donetsk airport for whom? Lugansk airport for whom? Debaltseve for whom? ..
              How much can you post nonsense about taking Mariupol in 14g .. Donetsk didn’t have such opportunities .. even if they had gone there ... there was nothing to keep.
              1. URAL72
                URAL72 April 7 2020 21: 14 New
                +7
                Here you are of course right, but not entirely. They fled from Mariupol in panic. It would be difficult to hold, but possible. The decisive factor was not some Swiss, but Merkel's call. "We will be forced to impose tougher sanctions." The cops even resisted the APU, with shooting, there were casualties on both sides. Many are now serving in our army.
                1. dvina71
                  dvina71 April 7 2020 21: 25 New
                  +3
                  Quote: URAL72

                  Here you are certainly right, but not quite. They fled from Mariupol in a panic. It would be difficult to keep, but it is possible

                  Ok .. by what forces ..? You are easily rushed by words ... and observational data. Just..number and armament, logistics .. all that Donetsk could expose for Mariupol and its defense? Remind me how much they took the airport?
                  1. URAL72
                    URAL72 April 7 2020 21: 36 New
                    +5
                    You did not understand. Mariupol was almost clean. He did not have to be taken. It had to be taken. Cops for us. With weapon. The situation is like during the Warsaw uprising - we did not have time to help. Ukrainians have never tried to take a big city by storm. And rightly so, if so much equipment was lost in the fields, then in the city there would be a beating of infants, but many civilians would die.
                    1. dvina71
                      dvina71 April 7 2020 22: 14 New
                      +4
                      Quote: URAL72
                      He did not have to be taken.

                      OK..Although you confuse the cops .., EMNIP still on May 9 pro-Russian cops shot and burned in the police department building ..
                      And the second .. ok to take .. WHAT? once again I ask .., and in response ..
                  2. Victorio
                    Victorio April 7 2020 22: 20 New
                    +1
                    Quote: dvina71
                    Quote: URAL72

                    Here you are certainly right, but not quite. They fled from Mariupol in a panic. It would be difficult to keep, but it is possible

                    Ok .. by what forces ..? You are easily rushed by words ... and observational data. Just..number and armament, logistics .. all that Donetsk could expose for Mariupol and its defense? Remind me how much they took the airport?

                    ===
                    But didn’t there be sympathizers of the LPR in Mariupol? in the 17th, at the anniversary meeting of graduates, a lady from mariupol was indignant that every second in the city was separ
                    1. dvina71
                      dvina71 April 7 2020 22: 26 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Victorio
                      But didn’t there be sympathizers of the LPR in Mariupol?

                      That is, no one knows how to dress, but everyone is ready to take Mariupol ..
                      1. Victorio
                        Victorio April 7 2020 22: 27 New
                        +1
                        Quote: dvina71
                        Quote: Victorio
                        But didn’t there be sympathizers of the LPR in Mariupol?

                        That is, no one knows how to dress, but everyone is ready to take Mariupol ..

                        ===
                        Well, yes, everything worked according to the general plan in Slavic
                      2. dvina71
                        dvina71 April 7 2020 22: 36 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Victorio
                        Well, yes, everything worked according to the general plan in Slavic

                        Will there be a concrete answer to a simple question? Or continue verbiage?
                      3. Victorio
                        Victorio April 7 2020 22: 37 New
                        +1
                        Quote: dvina71
                        Quote: Victorio
                        Well, yes, everything worked according to the general plan in Slavic

                        Will there be a concrete answer to a simple question? Or continue verbiage?

                        ===
                        Field Marshal, what question is this and the answer
                    2. boss
                      boss April 9 2020 10: 35 New
                      -2
                      a terrified general-reconsructor of a frightened one was sent to Slavyansk, who, having abandoned a completely defensive Slavic, flew over the floor of the oblast with a fright, abandoning a number of cities.
                      I wonder what would have done to the Soviet or Russian military commanders, if they couldn’t keep, for example, Zhytomyr, they would immediately run to Moscow ???
                    3. AllXVahhaB
                      AllXVahhaB April 14 2020 10: 58 New
                      -1
                      Quote: patron
                      or Russian military commanders if they could not restrain, for example

                      Russian military commander Port Arthur surrendered and nothing ...
                    4. boss
                      boss April 14 2020 14: 33 New
                      -2
                      And probably immediately to St. Petersburg drapanul?
                      Or Moscow?
                      And, the brave commander Strelkov did just that.
                      But if you still bother to get acquainted with the position of Mr. Bezler, who so clearly and without advertising PR campaigns, set up the defense of Gorlovka, which Ukrainians cannot crack for the 6th year, then the motives for the flight of the re-enactor will shine with absolutely rainbow colors.
                      Bezler did not retreat and did not run away.
                      But to Bezler, by the fruits of his deeds, there is faith.
            2. boss
              boss April 9 2020 10: 58 New
              +3
              yeah, and this "every second separatist" with a flag and a naked jo ... was supposed to defend the marik from motorized riflemen ???
              You have no idea what the situation was.
              At first it seemed like Marik went to the republic, however, after the command of the notorious oligarch, he returned to the bosom of the nenki.
              there are all his personal factories and collective farms, together with security, transport, energy and communications.
              and security and teams, this count ready units.
              I was in Mariupol in October last year.
              recall 14 as a nightmare.
              but when you see how they’re abusing the population with curfews, customs, beggars, pensions and salaries compared to Ukraine, at quite Moscow prices, no one wants to exist in the DNI, believe me.
              already in mariupol to the factories FOR EARNINGS PEOPLE RIDE FROM DONETSK! Bo there at least pay.
              Kanesh and Marik had to be taken, everyone in Zaporizhzhya rushed to work.
              how embarrassed these sofa and pocket strategists are.
              in the micro-republic that turned out to organize at least a little bit normal life, otherwise it will soon become empty.
              1. AllXVahhaB
                AllXVahhaB April 14 2020 11: 03 New
                0
                Quote: patron
                but when you see how they’re abusing the population with curfews, customs, beggars, pensions and salaries compared to Ukraine, at quite Moscow prices, no one wants to exist in the DNI, believe me.
                already in mariupol to the factories FOR EARNINGS PEOPLE RIDE FROM DONETSK! Bo there at least pay.
                Kanesh and Marik had to be taken, everyone in Zaporizhzhya rushed to work.
                how embarrassed these sofa and pocket strategists are.
                in the micro-republic that turned out to organize at least a little bit normal life, otherwise it will soon become empty.

                Is it normal life in Ukraine? And decent salaries with pensions? And with what fright then so many Ukrainians in Zarobitch fell? And sho will you do when they all turn to nenko now?
        2. boss
          boss April 9 2020 10: 24 New
          -2
          Mariupol could not be taken, mediocre abandonment of Slavyansk. the hysteria and escape of the great strategist and reconstructor of the shooter.
          He abandoned not only Slavic, but along the way Kramatorsk, boyfriend, Konstantinovka.
          having reduced the territory controlled by the militias by almost 3! times.
          Bezler publicly debunked all his nagging and excuses, both in words, with a touch of disgust, and in CASE.
          Bezler, with fewer resources, organized the defense of Horlivka in such a way that dill still break his teeth there.
          at the same time Gorlovka, a much more complex city in terms of defense.
          how, and most importantly, why after escaping from Slavyansk was to take Mariupol ???
          Who controls Slavyansk - controls the water of Donbass.
          Now it is served by Ukraine, only because it is at the other end of Mariupol.
    2. Octopus
      Octopus April 8 2020 05: 18 New
      +4
      Quote: Overlock
      a certain Swiss rode to ours and they talked

      )))
      The conflict in the east of Ukraine is a magnificent case of war in which the leadership of all the warring parties are traitors.

      Nevertheless, it doesn’t really bother them to kill the population.
  2. Sailor
    Sailor April 7 2020 20: 04 New
    +3
    If they said "B", then Kharkov joined the LPNR, and possibly Odessa, this is a fact and Kernes was counting on this, and after the genital organs were blown away from the GDP, by his Jewish nature, the SBU merged all the "rebels".
    1. URAL72
      URAL72 April 7 2020 21: 19 New
      -7
      Sailor, if you had the brains and experience like Putin did, then this vyser would not have happened. I am already silent about responsibility.
      1. Sailor
        Sailor April 8 2020 06: 25 New
        +5
        But isn't Kernes a Jew and has he leaked everyone? In those days, you could see everything on YouTube. Everything was done beautifully with Crimea, it was necessary to support the eastern regions as well.
    2. Karaul14
      Karaul14 April 8 2020 02: 07 New
      +1
      Quote: Sailor
      and after GDP reproductive organs are blown away
      He looked at the reaction of the West - crawl through or not. After the visit of Burkhalter, who gave him a collective warning, it became clear that he would not crawl, that was all blown away.
      1. Hermit21
        Hermit21 April 8 2020 08: 06 New
        +7
        The decision not to send troops to the full program on the Cursed Lands was made at the Security Council of the Russian Federation on 28.04.14/1/XNUMX, the decision to go the way that led to "vacations", "voentorg", "unknown artillery", which mixed Ukrainians with the landowners, yak "dids, scho Hitler vayuvaly ", and in the same area," unknown BTG ", the creation of buildings and so on - in early May of the same year. And then the clown Burkhalter and the pressukha from June XNUMX, when the wheels were already spinning with might and main - it is absolutely incomprehensible
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion April 8 2020 08: 22 New
      +5
      Well, yes, Putin decided for Kharkov. Now, if they had eggs there, as in Donetsk and Lugansk, they would not be in dill now, and the Ukrainian army would not be physically enough against all three, not to mention the tank factory. And maybe the question would already be closed.
      1. boss
        boss April 9 2020 11: 02 New
        +1
        which Mariupol?
        which Kharkov?
        what question?
        First, you find out how people exist in DPR!
        6 years of curfew and customs between Lugansk and Donetsk!
        miserable salaries, beggarly pensions are not paid for months, at quite Moscow prices!
        Where else to mock Kharkiv?
        Believe me, people got such a vaccine from the DNI that even a damn bald one, even a clown, even a Biden, even a Clinton, if only not a Dniester lawlessness.
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 9 2020 11: 08 New
          +1
          Quote: patron
          people got such a vaccine from the DNI that at least the hell was bald, even the clown, even the Biden, even the Clinton, if only not the Dniester chaos.

          It is good to.
        2. Crimean partisan 1974
          Crimean partisan 1974 April 9 2020 13: 18 New
          +1
          First, you find out how people exist in DPR!
          6 years of curfew and customs between Lugansk and Donetsk!
          miserable salaries, beggarly pensions, at quite Moscow prices, are not paid for months! ..... they wax just live. and everything in abundance of acre, the issue of life and death will be under fire. . and why. they live in LDNR and not like they exist in Nenko. Yes, just their own rudders and not the external management of mvfs and other clowns.
          1. boss
            boss April 9 2020 14: 01 New
            -1
            where are you from the DNI, where people do not exist and survive, namely live?
            I have a father-in-law with a mother-in-law in Makeyevka, a brother in Donetsk, and a sister in a kharts, closer to the lower wing.
            everywhere curfew and full oppa, with their clowns and without the IMF with a pension in 3tyschi.
            Call me a place where it’s better, where can it be different in a hole?
            1. Crimean partisan 1974
              Crimean partisan 1974 April 10 2020 07: 30 New
              0
              where are you from the DNI, where people do not exist and survive, namely live? ....... by nickname one could guess, otherwise yes. colleagues in Donetsk, very often calling, at one time drove there in gomkomvoim, and he comes to me on vacation but no matter how not to Kharkov or to Marik, this year he should also come. so compare ... the only thing I remind him that if I took cigarettes and vodaru with us, this business is three times more expensive with us, although if moonshine is ... well, and so on the whole, my Kent has a son in the Dnieper, if not monthly translations to study, then teeth on the shelf, and where have you seen voluptuous life out of place at the territory? among deputies and servants of the people? well, that’s not all, 0.00001 percent of all available, and by the way, they don’t even know how many of them, unlike LDNR
      2. Sailor
        Sailor April 10 2020 09: 34 New
        0
        Kernes went to Moscow when Kharkov fell and asked whether Kharkov would be annexed by the type of Crimea, they refused him, then upon arrival home he gave the lists of activists and the green light to the SBU.
  3. Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky April 7 2020 23: 39 New
    +2
    Quote: DMB 75
    Still, it was necessary to do the same with the Crimea at 14, sanctions still could not be avoided, but how many human lives they would have saved ... I don’t understand why this wasn’t done because of my feeble mind. I don’t understand and don’t accept such a policy, neither yours, nor ours, nor a candle to God, nor a damn poker ...

    Crimea held a referendum for reunion with Russia, and Donetsk and Lugansk for independence from Ukraine, and this, according to the will of the people, is not the same result and, accordingly, status. Hence the actions of Russia in relation to these territories are different.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion April 8 2020 08: 27 New
      +4
      Actually, not Crimea, but the already independent Crimean Republic. With Crimea it was easier, because if 20k soldiers were not there, then Russia had the right to throw them up without asking the ukrovs, according to the existing agreements. And this despite the fact that the bulk of the ukroarmiya was from the local and "svoy" for her were just the Russians. But to drive at least a brigade to the Donbass is really an act of aggression, and according to all formal criteria, Russia would be wrong.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky April 8 2020 08: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: EvilLion
        Actually, not Crimea, but the already independent Crimean Republic. With Crimea it was easier, because if 20k soldiers were not there, then Russia had the right to throw them up without asking the ukrovs, according to the existing agreements. And this despite the fact that the bulk of the ukroarmiya was from the local and "svoy" for her were just the Russians. But to drive at least a brigade to the Donbass is really an act of aggression, and according to all formal criteria, Russia would be wrong.

        I did not write about the alignment of forces at the time of the annexation of Crimea and the withdrawal of LDNR from Ukraine, but about the legal procedure for changing the status of these territories. Both Crimea and LDNR in fact voted for one thing - exit from Ukraine, but Crimea was immediately territorially determined in terms of joining Russia, and LDNR for independent status both from Ukraine and from Russia i.e. as independent states.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion April 8 2020 08: 59 New
          +1
          Theoretically, nothing prevented them from holding a second referendum in a week or two. Separate from them the rights were as much as the Crimea. Logically, in those muddy conditions, one could generally declare oneself a legitimate authority, and Kiev rebels, in the end, chose Yanuk legally, who are you in Kievish to overthrow him. The question, in any case, is held by 20 thousand Russian troops in the Crimea and 0 in other regions. Well, in Crimea everything went faster, there was already Russian power there by April 2014. Yes, and give Crimea ukram was much easier, because there is one cotton wool incorrigible. You could wipe and turn on the fox without grapes. In the case of the Donbass, this did not roll in any way.
          1. Nyrobsky
            Nyrobsky April 8 2020 09: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: EvilLion
            In theory nothing prevented them from doing second referendum in a week or two. Separate from them the rights were as much as the Crimea. By logic in those muddy conditions it could be generally declare themselves legitimate authority, and Kiev rebels,

            You can operate with the concepts - "If only", "as if", "theoretically", "presumably", but this does not change the essence of the actual and existing fact. If grandma had another contraption, it would be grandpa.
            If Humpbacked arrested Shushkevich, Kravchuk and Yeltsin in the Bialowieza Forest, then you look and the USSR would still be. But there is a fait accompli ...
        2. boss
          boss April 9 2020 11: 07 New
          0
          fairy tales here should not be sculpted, "and the LPR is for its independent status."
          we know who and how determined who led to the Surkov deadlock (Minsk world).
          and as it is now in the hole, and on the liner, and at the customs between them, yeah.
          1. Nyrobsky
            Nyrobsky April 9 2020 11: 38 New
            +2
            Quote: patron
            fairy tales here should not be sculpted, "and the LPR is for its independent status."
            Well, don't sculpt fairy tales. Well, here's this newsletter. What's wrong? Where did the fairy tales find? "What is written with a pen cannot be cut down with an ax" - black is black, white is white, the bulletin for independence is the bulletin for independence and ............ will not become a bulletin for reunification with Russia until there is a new referendum was held, reflecting the issue on the status in the editorial office - For joining Russia.
            1. boss
              boss April 9 2020 18: 01 New
              0
              did Surkov’s dead end (Minsk world) come up with LDN?
              they are not allowed there at the common table or joint statements if you are not in the know.
              and ALL participants in the Minsk agreements signed in support and recognition of the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
              from LDNR too, by the way.
              I apologize to you if touched, just an aggravated reaction to this question.
              1. Nyrobsky
                Nyrobsky April 9 2020 20: 48 New
                0
                Quote: patron
                did Surkov’s dead end (Minsk world) come up with LDN?
                I am talking about a referendum and its result. You are talking about the events after the referendum.
                Quote: patron
                and ALL participants in the Minsk agreements signed in support and recognition of the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
                from LDNR too, by the way.
                Within that, within, but on other principles - on the principles of a federation (confederation).
                Quote: patron
                they are not allowed there at the common table or joint statements if you are not in the know.

                I know. But their signatures are near Minsk.
                Quote: patron
                I apologize to you if touched, just an aggravated reaction to this question.
                No, not hurt. Any problem is a fist. Someone from the whole fist sees only one, a maximum of two fingers, rarely can anyone see the whole five fingers, and units see the whole fist in the assembly. This is a big political poker that we mortals cannot grasp.
              2. boss
                boss April 9 2020 21: 03 New
                -1
                REFERENDUM RESULTS - a sea of ​​blood, the most fierce and senseless conflict in the post-Soviet space, but in fact the current war has fallen sluggish in length of 6 !!!! at 6 years old !!!
                In Surkov’s impasse, NO WORD
                about the federal (confederal) structure of Ukraine.
                And even more so about independence from Ukraine, and as you noted, it was this issue that was decided at a referendum.
                Made up his mind?
                There are not even political prospects.
                There are signatures of LDNR, but the PEOPLE who signed?
                50 / 50?
                They are hunted.
                So, there is no result from Surkov’s dead end ...
                and ALL military-political events in the south-east of Ukraine must be considered as the consequences of a referendum.
                THERE is such a fist.
                In potency even worse
    2. Karaul14
      Karaul14 April 9 2020 08: 24 New
      0
      Quote: EvilLion
      Actually, not Crimea, but the already independent Crimean Republic. With Crimea it was easier, because if 20k soldiers were not there, then Russia had the right to throw them up without asking the ukrovs, according to the existing agreements. And this despite the fact that the bulk of the ukroarmiya was from the local and "svoy" for her were just the Russians. But to drive at least a brigade to the Donbass is really an act of aggression, and according to all formal criteria, Russia would be wrong.
      On what basis you determine that the "Crimean Republic" has become independent, but Donetsk and Lugansk regions are not, is a mystery to me. According to the Ukrainian constitution, all these regions had no right to disconnect, and "referendums" were held after the beginning of the conflicts.
      Agreements on the deployment of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea were signed with Kiev, not with Crimea. And finally, the Russian military ran through the territory of Crimea without identification marks and blocked and seized military units even before the "referendum", which Putin later admitted to, for the same "On March 1, the Federation Council of the Russian Federation satisfied the official appeal of President Putin for permission to use Russian troops on the territory of Ukraine ".
      Let me also remind you of the Budapest memorandum on security guarantees for Ukraine signed by the Russian Federation. That is, if Putin says that "another state appeared there, and Ukraine disappeared," then it should not have appeared, because if Ukraine was "attacked by Bandera," then Russia, according to the agreements, should have helped Ukraine "to restore power," but the territories do not touch. But even this is not confirmed, because how did the gas transit agreement, for example, continue to operate if "there is no Ukraine." Double standards and complete disregard for international law, that's what happened.
      1. Heet
        Heet April 9 2020 14: 05 New
        0
        I also want to remind you of the non-bloc status of Ukraine, according to the same Budapest memorandum.
        But did the Ukrainian constitution act, after it was pleased to impeach the incumbent president, bypassing all the rules prescribed in the same constitution, didn’t they ask themselves such a question?
        1. Karaul14
          Karaul14 April 11 2020 04: 27 New
          0
          Quote: Heet
          I also want to remind you of the non-bloc status of Ukraine, according to the same Budapest memorandum.
          But did the Ukrainian constitution act, after it was pleased to impeach the incumbent president, bypassing all the rules prescribed in the same constitution, didn’t they ask themselves such a question?
          Is Ukraine in a block now? There was no impeachment, Yanukovych just fled abroad, he withdrew.
          Suppose I accept your side. Evil Bandera illegally seized everything, everything that they continued to carry out it was illegal, and Yanukovych escaped, but he is the legitimate president. OK. Why, then, Russia did not help, according to this memorandum, Ukraine liberate itself from evil Banderas and return the system, but simply took away the territory? Is it really not clear what I'm writing?
          1. Heet
            Heet April 11 2020 13: 53 New
            0
            Quote: Karaul14
            There was no impeachment, Yanukovych just fled abroad, he withdrew.
            Suppose I accept your side. Evil Bandera illegally seized everything, everything that they continued to carry out it was illegal, and Yanukovych escaped, but he is the legitimate president. OK. Why, then, Russia did not help, according to this memorandum, Ukraine liberate itself from evil Banderas and return the system, but simply took away the territory? Is it really not clear what I'm writing?

            You yourself do not understand what you are writing. During the adoption of the so-called "impeachment", Yanukovych was on the territory of Ukraine, in Kharkov, then in Crimea and left Ukraine after the illegal seizure of power and the threat to himself from those who seized power (which contradicts the Constitution of Ukraine under the articles on impeachment and security guarantees of the current President). This is for you to refresh your memory. Check out your own constitution before writing something.
          2. Heet
            Heet April 11 2020 14: 01 New
            0
            Quote: Karaul14
            Is Ukraine in a block now?

            The official authorities of Ukraine constantly stated their aspirations and policies for joining NATO, this was still under the presidency of Yushchenko (a letter requesting Ukraine to join the NATO Membership Action Plan signed by Yushchenko, Yatsenyuk, etc.), refresh your memory about this question.
            1. Karaul14
              Karaul14 April 12 2020 04: 26 New
              0
              Quote: Heet
              The official authorities of Ukraine have constantly stated their aspirations and policies for joining NATO
              Yanukovych canceled all these provisions and Ukraine did not aspire to join NATO, especially since she never was in any bloc.


              Quote: Heet
              You yourself do not understand what you are writing. During the adoption of the so-called "impeachment", Yanukovych was on the territory of Ukraine, in Kharkiv, then in Crimea and left Ukraine after the illegal seizure of power and the threat to himself from those who seized power (which contradicts the Constitution of Ukraine under articles on impeachment and security guarantees of the current President).
              Okay, it contradicts. It means that Ukraine was "captured by Bandera", which means that Russia should help Ukraine to free itself, and not take away the territory. And so it is vile to act, to sign this memorandum, according to which Ukraine abandoned nuclear weapons, and then take its territory ...
            2. Heet
              Heet April 12 2020 12: 14 New
              0
              Quote: Karaul14
              Yanukovych canceled all these provisions and Ukraine did not aspire to NATO with him

              Under Yanukovych, it was even impossible to imagine the Crimean events. And the organizers of the Maidan, just announced their entry into NATO, the EU, etc.
            3. Heet
              Heet April 12 2020 12: 18 New
              0
              Quote: Karaul14
              Okay, it contradicts. It means that Ukraine was "captured by Bandera", which means that Russia should help Ukraine to free itself, and not take away the territory.

              And how do you imagine this trip? With so many supporters of the same "Bandera". In Crimea, the situation was completely different.
  • Hermit21
    Hermit21 April 8 2020 07: 43 New
    0
    What Donbass voted for, then got it. All right
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion April 8 2020 08: 20 New
    +1
    Well, you are definitely smart, you would get into a direct war, but now you would think, either what to do with the war, or what to do with the Ukrainians broken in a couple of weeks, because there are several million fools whom Putin would "deprive the opportunity of European integration" , this is slightly more than the Russian GB can afford. At the same time, the number of corpses from terrorist attacks would be several times higher than those accidental victims from shelling by the rabble forces of Ukraine.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 April 8 2020 13: 15 New
    0
    While Russia will stand, and it has already been more than a thousand years old, LDNR will also live.
  • iouris
    iouris April 9 2020 17: 36 New
    0
    Quote: Overlock
    But how long will LDNR last?

    As long as the Russian Federation lasts.
  • Gene84
    Gene84 April 7 2020 18: 49 New
    20
    trying will not be. how can people forget the shelling of peaceful cities and villages. forget the bullying of people by punitive ...
  • Kronos
    Kronos April 7 2020 21: 50 New
    +5
    So Half Donbass under them if you forget
    1. Moon
      Moon April 7 2020 22: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: Kronos
      Half of Donbass under them if you forget

      2/3 areas, to be precise.
      So the name Donbass, if it is the largest, is likely to refer to Ukraine. But regional centers (Donetsk and Lugansk) are still in ORDLO.
      Officially, the Russian Federation recognizes all this as Ukraine and insists on an internal conflict. Everyone recognizes MS2 and all this Ukraine.
      In general, everyone is bargaining for what to call it all Ukraine.
      The price did not agree (recognition of the Crimea and the lifting of sanctions) -that is, and there are still LDNR.
  • Karaul14
    Karaul14 April 8 2020 02: 04 New
    +5
    Quote: Ros 56
    Their main task, these Bandera savages multiplied by zero and bring the country in order. That's why such a tyagomotin stretches.
    Well, this is what stage of worshiping Putin you need to go to in order to justify his actions in your own head and invent mythical multi-moves, supposedly why he did not come and "did not defend the Russian-speaking Donbass." And objectively he wanted to spit on them from the high bell tower.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion April 8 2020 08: 30 New
      +3
      Putin to the Russians from Donbass, who still understand them there, maybe the Russians, or maybe the Ukrainians, do not owe anything. But Putin owes Russian Russia. And for the boys from Perm, or Kaluga, he would also have to answer. I would see how you howled here, if Russia had a real war zone with heavy losses.
      1. Victorio
        Victorio April 8 2020 10: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: EvilLion
        Putin to the Russians from Donbass, who still understand them there, maybe the Russians, or maybe the Ukrainians, do not owe anything. But Putin owes Russian Russia. And for the boys from Perm, or Kaluga, he would also have to answer. I would see how you howled here, get Russia real war zone with big losses.

        ===
        whoever fought there with Russia, the worst is all kinds of terrorist attacks and shots from around the corner.
      2. Karaul14
        Karaul14 April 11 2020 04: 38 New
        0
        Quote: EvilLion
        Putin to the Russians from Donbass, who still understand them there, maybe the Russians, or maybe the Ukrainians, do not owe anything.
        It seems to me that if some "militia" from Donbass reads such comments here, he will go over to the side of the Armed Forces of Ukraine tomorrow. They are shouting there for 6 years "Russia Russia Putin help !!", shells on their heads, but he does not owe them anything, "who are you at all?"))) Oru.
  • Octopus
    Octopus April 8 2020 05: 15 New
    +3
    Quote: Ros 56
    Donbas will never lie under banderlog

    )))
    As if someone would ask a girl.
  • uralant
    uralant April 8 2020 12: 48 New
    0
    The only thing that can be multiplied in Kuev and the only factor is zero! But after such a multiplication, it is impossible to put the country in order.
  • gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront April 7 2020 18: 07 New
    11
    To support and finance the Donbass is much more practical and cheaper than stopping new threats in the event of NATO approaching, not to mention that you can’t surrender your own by definition, when the Israelis refused to support the Maronites (the army of southern Lebanon) and received Hezbollah at their borders.
    1. Overlock
      Overlock April 7 2020 18: 37 New
      12
      Quote: gabonskijfront
      To support and finance the Donbass is much more practical and cheaper than stopping new threats in case NATO approaches

      explain ...
      1. gabonskijfront
        gabonskijfront April 7 2020 18: 40 New
        +4
        Imagine that Hitler started from the borders of Kursk and Rostov.
        1. Overlock
          Overlock April 7 2020 18: 44 New
          20
          Quote: gabonskijfront
          Imagine that Hitler started from the borders of Kursk and Rostov.

          Imagine that already under Sumy and Kharkov ALREADY Americans. Both in Ochakovo and in Mariupol
          1. gabonskijfront
            gabonskijfront April 7 2020 18: 49 New
            +4
            Moreover, it means you have to react harder.
            1. Overlock
              Overlock April 7 2020 19: 11 New
              13
              Quote: gabonskijfront
              Moreover, it means you have to react harder.

              it's like?
              1. gabonskijfront
                gabonskijfront April 7 2020 19: 14 New
                +5
                located in Venezuela and Nicaragua,
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus April 8 2020 05: 20 New
                  +1
                  Quote: gabonskijfront
                  located in Venezuela and Nicaragua,

                  )))
                  Forward.
  • knn54
    knn54 April 7 2020 18: 09 New
    +5
    The fact is that Ukrainian politicians do not need an LDNR return. They need an endless war.
  • for
    for April 7 2020 18: 18 New
    +3
    Please help me, I can’t understand why they didn’t go the way of Crimea?
    1. Lamata
      Lamata April 7 2020 18: 25 New
      +5
      And you ask yourself you know whom !!
      1. for
        for April 7 2020 21: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: Lamata
        And you ask yourself you know whom !!

        Says: It’s not my fault, they themselves started.
        1. Lamata
          Lamata April 8 2020 02: 05 New
          +1
          Oh he's never to blame, he asks to get him right am
    2. Overlock
      Overlock April 7 2020 18: 36 New
      15
      Quote: for
      Please help me, I can’t understand why they didn’t go the way of Crimea?

      but such a task was not posed. The task was to divert world attention from the Crimea, and then, by resolving the issue of the Donbass, make everyone forget the Crimea
      1. for
        for April 7 2020 21: 10 New
        +4
        Quote: Overlock
        there was no such task

        The task was the Unsinkable aircraft carrier "Crimea".
        1. Lamata
          Lamata April 9 2020 07: 57 New
          -1
          Thank you for Crimea
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. URAL72
      URAL72 April 7 2020 21: 24 New
      +1
      Crimea was an AUTONOMOUS republic, and had the right to self-determination. Areas - no. I will not say for Sevastopol, there is generally a disputed territory.
      1. Moon
        Moon April 7 2020 22: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: URAL72
        Crimea was an AUTONOMOUS republic, and had the right to self-determination. Areas - no.

        as a result of only two referenda at once (local and all-Ukrainian)
        Like any part of Ukraine. ARC had no more rights in this matter than any area of ​​the city and so on ..
  • DPN
    DPN April 7 2020 20: 21 New
    +7
    from the appearance of Girkin in Slavyansk, in connection with which his statement that he “started the war in the Donbass” seems somewhat self-confident. A war would have taken place anyway.

    No need to take their laurels from Girkin, Odessa, Kharkov and other Russian-speaking cities could not, they just looked from the windows. Without the head of the people, NO, there is simply a population, but it is always passive.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos April 7 2020 21: 56 New
      0
      As a result, did not lose anything
    2. boss
      boss April 9 2020 11: 12 New
      +1
      from a sore head - there is no peace in your legs!
      I don’t want to just describe now in detail how this stratech-reconstructor went through the floor of the region, abandoning the cities, and then the Nazis entered there without a fight and with a shout of sugs, with 40-liter aluminum boils, they broke the necks of the activists, but not everything is after yours " head "from Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Druzhkovka, Konstantinovka managed to escape.
      and this I only call the largest cities, past which he draped without a fight.
  • LKW UE
    LKW UE April 7 2020 21: 36 New
    +1
    My question is for the inhabitants of LDNR, let’s say pro-Russian power comes to Ukraine with a pro-Russian president, such as Yanukovych and Azarov, will Donbass return to Ukraine?
    Donbass cannot survive without Ukraine, or until Donbass fits into the Russian economy, there will be no one left.
    Interestingly, the residents of Donbass understand that they will live forever in a gray, frozen conflict zone, in fact, eternal hostages?
    Russia will never accept the Donbass for its membership because these are eternal sanctions.
    In fact, as someone wrote above, Ukraine does not need the Donbass, only for muddy money laundering schemes.
    1. Moon
      Moon April 7 2020 22: 46 New
      +3
      Quote: LKW UE
      Donbass residents understand that they will live forever in a gray, frozen conflict zone, in fact, eternal hostages?

      they did not decide anything initially.
      The curators started, they lead the whole process. People are initially put in this position.
      And they can’t change anything.
      In general, what will be the will of the curators, they will go there.
      Well, or leave. PMR exists too. It’s even more complicated since the war. Ukraine is still not Moldova.
      Could conquer 2/3 of the area. Further the status quo. The Russian Federation cannot afford to get rid of a suitcase without a handle, Ukraine does not just need these suitcases because Crimea is at stake.
      Here and butt.
      Of course, without allies and its curators, Ukraine would have long lost. And without the Russian Federation and its curators, LDNR would have lost ..
      These are the games that the local population contemplates. However, now the residents are more interested in life, rather than reports from the front. As in Ukraine.
      Makhov writes interestingly.
      It seems that it continues the propaganda work, but it seems that it also writes that everything is pretty bad inside. And ORDLO on the full contents of the budget of the Russian Federation.
      In general, it’s sad there. I hope the adoption of Russian citizenship will help those who can escape from there.
      1. Victorio
        Victorio April 8 2020 10: 41 New
        -2
        Quote: Σελήνη
        In general, it’s sad there. I hope the adoption of Russian citizenship will help those who can escape from there.

        ====
        why would they run away, they’re at home. unless your shobla will force you to this endless provocations and shelling.
    2. Octopus
      Octopus April 8 2020 05: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: LKW UE
      let's say pro-Russian power comes in Ukraine with a pro-Russian president, such as Yanukovych and Azarov

      Already.
      Quote: LKW UE
      Interestingly, residents of Donbass understand

      And who does not give a shit about the inhabitants of Donbass?
      Quote: LKW UE
      they live forever in a gray, frozen conflict zone, in fact, eternal hostages?

      Transnistria, Abkhazia. They wanted the Russian world - here it is, get it, sign it.
      Quote: LKW UE
      Ukraine does not need Donbass, only for muddy money laundering schemes.

      Donbass (and Crimea) no one needs. When and if there is talk about restoring the territorial integrity of Ukraine, the latter will have to come up with at least some kind of scheme for non-citizens, similar to the Baltic one. The population of Crimea and Donbass is unable to create anything but problems, none of their potential homelands.
      As a maximum - a suitcase, a station, a Far Eastern hectare.
      1. Moon
        Moon April 8 2020 09: 01 New
        0
        Quote: Octopus
        the latter will have to come up with at least some scheme of aliens similar to the Baltic

        come on. The population is compactly located. Just go along the Russian path. And you don’t even have to take a steam bath - everyone almost has the citizenship of Ukraine initially from the moment of birth or arrival.
        Well, a person has two passports, well, okay. They will ignore the double ban specifically for the region.
        It will still be the same.
        I will even say more - they are taken into account by the citizens of Ukraine. Because "they did not renounce their citizenship as it should be"
        Ukraine and the Russian Federation have several million "joint citizens". This is a unique situation in the world.
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 8 2020 10: 32 New
          0
          Quote: Σελήνη
          It will still be the same.

          Quote: Octopus
          When and if there’s a conversation about restoring the territorial integrity of Ukraine,

          If everything will be as before, then Crimea and Donbass will not be Ukrainian.
          Quote: Σελήνη
          they are taken into account by the citizens of Ukraine. Because "they did not renounce their citizenship as expected."

          This is because Ukraine considers every such "double-bottomed Russian" a potential partisan. Counts without any reason.

          When and if Crimea and Donbass return to Ukrainian control - their population, of course, will blame the Ukrainian authorities for all their problems. Therefore, any Ukrainian authorities are not interested in the appearance of such voters.

          But these are all great-power fantasies. The task of the Ukrainian people is the emergence of the political subjectivity of the Ukrainian people. As far as one can judge from the last election, when 80% of adult Ukrainians voted for an open traitor (actively or passively, without coming to the polls) - this task is still very far from resolving. It is entirely possible that Mr. Surkov, who claims that the Ukrainian people and the Ukrainian state does not exist and cannot exist, is completely right. So Crimea and Donbass are completely irrelevant topics.
          1. Kronos
            Kronos April 8 2020 11: 02 New
            +1
            And what is he an open traitor?
            1. Octopus
              Octopus April 8 2020 11: 20 New
              +3
              This is not a problem personally Zelensky, unfortunately. After the events of the 14th year, too many people in Kiev and not only wanted to return as soon as possible to the usual laziness, bliss and embezzlement.

              In the case of Ukraine, the European choice is not Belgium, where there are gay parades and bike paths. This is Israel of yesteryear, where gay parades, bike paths, 6 wars in 35 years. Opponents that are many times stronger in strength, who do not recognize this country's right to exist, and cowardly allies are great powers, ready to betray at any moment.

              Either that or nothing. Not yet. Ukraine will not be big Israel - it will be big Moldova.

              Zelensky’s election was a step anywhere, but not to Israel for sure.
              1. Kronos
                Kronos April 8 2020 12: 07 New
                0
                Do not tell what the traitor is - he is pursuing exactly the same policy as Poroshenko. And precisely because Poroshenko is not a thief oligarch who committed many crimes and a true nationalist patriot is not that Zelensky
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus April 8 2020 12: 33 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Kronos
                  Do not tell what the traitor is - he is pursuing exactly the same policy as Poroshenko.

                  Not quite. He leads her more and better.
                  Quote: Kronos
                  Poroshenko is not a thief oligarch who committed many crimes but a real nationalist patriot

                  What do you. Poroshenko has a lot of questions. Although, as far as I remember, he simply did not offer to stop shooting. Maybe I missed something.

                  But, you see, Zelensky, Poroshenko - this is particular. Question to the Ukrainian people. Which, so far, somehow does not succeed in its own state. Not a tragedy, of course, you never know who does not succeed in their own state. But sadly.
  • comradChe
    comradChe April 7 2020 22: 34 New
    0
    Enough time has passed to put a + or - sign in assessing the decisions of the Supreme in Donbass. I remember the catch phrase of Nona Mordyukova from the movie "A Simple Story": "You are a good man, but NOT an eagle!"
  • Karaul14
    Karaul14 April 8 2020 02: 18 New
    -3
    Couldn't find a video on YouTube, 2014. The station, just the beginning of the war, the "militias" walk around the station and are looking for guys to call into their ranks, along the way they quarrel with people. They say, "Should I send you to Kiev, or what?" and the woman says - "I am going there." The "militias" leave with the words "what would have covered your train" or something like that. Look, you might find.
    Actually, a lot of residents left for other regions of Ukraine, unwilling to live in the "LPR" and "DPR", Kharkiv was literally flooded with immigrants and Lugansk / Donetsk license plates.
  • nord72
    nord72 April 8 2020 09: 07 New
    +1
    Well well, however, there is no turning back.
  • Serge Koval
    Serge Koval April 8 2020 11: 04 New
    +2
    I didn’t see a single wooden machine while I was there. Weapons were sorely lacking a few units of automatic weapons and hunting rifles with pistols of the police who switched to the defense of their people. Only the desire of the people prevailed over the Ukrainian fascists. Then the captured weapons began to appear during the battles.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Octopus
        Octopus April 8 2020 16: 21 New
        +2
        Quote: ilik54
        And forget your fantasies about how you will share our Slavic lands! All Slavic lands will return only to Russia!

        Yes Yes. I absolutely agree with the previous speaker.

        That is what Zelensky (Old Man, Elbasy, anyone) should explain to his citizens.
  • Sergey Mikula
    Sergey Mikula April 8 2020 18: 26 New
    0
    Russia and Ukraine: “non-brothers” forever.
    One word would seem, but how is the meaning changing.
  • tarackanovaleksei
    tarackanovaleksei April 8 2020 20: 28 New
    0
    Well written. I absolutely agree with the author.
  • VyacheslavD
    VyacheslavD April 9 2020 03: 41 New
    +2
    I usually do not comment on sites, but I think this site is serious with fairly competent comments. Therefore, I would like to clarify the positions of the parties, giving information from the first person. The same arguments are often repeated. I think that many people do not understand the situation in 2014 very well. I have preserved several videos by Aleksey Mozgovoy, the commander of the Ghost Brigade. This is what he says (writing from memory). Journalist's question: Is there any help coming from Russia? Answer: Yes, it does, but at the minimum, only so that we do not lose. Many volunteers come to me, but I have to refuse them. After all, they need to be dressed, shod, fed, armed, settled somewhere, trained. If I had a full-fledged supply, the composition of the brigade would at least have doubled. This is an answer to questions walking on the net why the locals allegedly do not want to fight, but the Russians should fight for them and about the insufficient number of the militia. There was no point in introducing little green men to Russia, the locals themselves would have coped if Russia had fully helped with the funds. So why didn't our rulers do it? The answer to the question is further. Mozgovoy: We keep in touch with many commanders and we have come up with such a decision - to create a council of commanders as a temporary authority in an emergency situation. This council will appoint the executive branch and replace people there as necessary. We adhere to socialist views and want to create people's republics without oligarchs by nationalizing large enterprises. Now tell me, will Putin and his entourage finance the council of commanders not controlled by him, and even building socialism? In accordance with the pragmatism he proclaimed, he, on the contrary, must take control of the available resources and transfer them to close oligarchs. Yes, one more thing. The reinforced militia could not only take Mariupol, but also reach the Dnieper, taking control of half of Ukraine. But then Russia would need much more help, at least for the first time. No input of troops would be required. We could help with military consultants and, possibly, the protection of facilities in the rear. But Putin would have to spend, not take and divide. People often write what happened to Putin, how he was replaced. Here is the answer. In addition to pressure from the West, class interests played a huge role. That is, the country's national interests then faded into the background.
    1. Alecsandr
      Alecsandr April 9 2020 16: 34 New
      0
      This is really so. Revolutionary sailors of the bourgeois "elite" of Russia are not needed. From here everything flows. Our oligarchs do not need a revolutionary virus.
  • Vasya17
    Vasya17 April 9 2020 09: 17 New
    +2
    only with all this pathos in Minsk are negotiations being held to squeeze the Donbass back into Ukraine, albeit with a special status
  • Fishery
    Fishery April 9 2020 10: 41 New
    0
    ) These principal pensions are still received in Ukraine through intermediaries, although I think pensioners do not decide anything there.
    1. Ivan Z
      Ivan Z April 9 2020 17: 37 New
      0
      Well done, Tonya
  • D raft
    D raft April 15 2020 22: 07 New
    -1
    I remember Shakhtar’s victory in the Europa League - it was a holiday .... they celebrated ... and now you just have to look at the Donbass Arena ... LDNR really has something to be proud of :)