Military Review

Nikolai Timofeev-Resovsky: genetics, Nazis and the brain of Lenin

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Nikolai Timofeev-Resovsky: genetics, Nazis and the brain of Lenin
Nikolai Vladimirovich Timofeev-Resovsky. Source: interesnosti.com


Drug No. 1


History with the prolonged German business trip of Nikolai Vladimirovich Timofeev-Resovsky began with the death of Vladimir Lenin on January 21, 1924. Naturally, the brain of such a significant person could not remain without study, and for this procedure, already on December 31, the Bolsheviks invite the German Oscar Vogt. This was a famous scientist involved in the morphology of the human nervous system. In addition, Vogt was surprisingly similar to the object of study - Vladimir Lenin. The researcher agreed quickly, instructed to carefully preserve the brain of the leader of the revolution and demanded that all travel expenses be paid. Later, under the leadership of Vogt, the Moscow branch of the Berlin Institute of the Brain appeared, which later transformed into the Lenin State Brain Institute under the Scientific Committee of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR. A separate scientific organization was mainly engaged in the study of the brain of one person, in vain trying to understand what morphological features caused its genius. Probably, in those days many understood the original absurdity of this work, and the activities of the Institute over time were strictly classified. In the future, after studying the microtome sections of Lenin's gray matter (“Preparation No. 1”) up and down, the institution was renamed the Institute of the Brain Institute of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the USSR with a significant expansion of the functionality and objects of research.


Oscar Vogt. Source: wikipedia.org

Vogt, who openly sympathized with Soviet Russia, in the very first months of research found that pyramidal cells were found in Lenin’s brain a little less often, but they were much larger than on preparations of the ordinary brain. Whatever it means, but differences in Lenin’s brain were found, and they could well be interpreted in favor of the leader’s genius. However, Vogt quickly cooled to the study of the contents of the skull of Vladimir Lenin and was going home. Back in Moscow, the scientist was captured by the idea of ​​organizing genetic research at the Kaiser Wilhelm Society's Berlin Institute of Brain. In the mid-20s, the personalities of German geneticists were not particularly diverse, and Vogt's nasty character with frankly left-wing political views could hardly seduce anyone. After consultations with the leading Soviet biologist Nikolai Koltsov, Vogt invited the young and talented Nikolai Vladimirovich Timofeev-Resovsky with him to Berlin. I must say that the researcher did not immediately agree to a long trip. He later spoke about the reasons for consent like this:
"... the Russians usually went to study something abroad, but they invite me not to study, but rather to teach the Germans. This is such an outstanding case, and Koltsov and Semashko (People's Commissar of Health of the RSFSR) persuaded me."

By that time, Nikolai Timofeev-Resovsky managed to become famous as one of the leading experts in mutagenesis.


Brain and microtome. Source: hystory.mediasole.ru

A scientist with a group of geneticist Sergei Chetverikov studied the effect of radioactivity on the mutational variability of Drosophila, and also evaluated natural mutations in wild populations. In addition to purely professional qualities, contemporaries noted in the manners of Timofeev-Resovsky rare nobility and uncompromisingness. He was well versed in science and spoke two languages ​​- French and German. The genus of the scientist dates back to the time of Peter I and belongs to the nobility, which later also joined the roots of the Russian clergy. The wife of Timofeev-Resovsky, Elena Alexandrovna Fidler, was in a distant relationship with Immanuel Kant himself, and his immediate family founded the famous Fiedler gymnasium and the Fereyn pharmacy chain. The wife was also a biologist and, to the best of her ability, helped her husband in scientific research at the Institute of Experimental Biology under the guidance of the mentioned Nikolai Koltsov.

Timofeev-Resovsky remains in Germany


In 1925, an official invitation came from the Kaiser Wilhelm Society for the Promotion of Science in the name of Timofeev-Resovsky, and he went abroad with his wife and son. I must say that from the point of view of scientific communications, the scientist certainly won. Despite the deplorable state of Germany in the late 20s and early 30s, business trips and studies were generously paid. What could not be said about the Soviet Union: only a few researchers could afford to communicate with the world scientific elite. Nikolai Vladimirovich at the expense of the Kaiser Society managed to get to the seminars of Niels Bohr, which for its time were a real mainstream of the scientific world. There is evidence that a promising Russian researcher in 1936 was even invited to the Carnegie Institute in the United States. Then there was a period of intense flight of the learned elite from the country, and our compatriot could have found himself across the ocean. But he remained working as director of the genetics department of the Brain Institute in the Buch district of Berlin. The Nazis did not touch him, because they did not find Jewish roots in Timofeev-Resovsky, and his authority in the scientific community was already high then. And while the Germans did not have interest in any mutations there caused by radioactive radiation. A year earlier, in 1935, Nikolai Vladimirovich, together with Karl Zimmer and Max Delbrück, probably published his most famous work “On the Nature of Gene Mutations and the Nature of a Gene”. In it, in particular, scientists substantiate the approximate size of the gene. This work could well claim the Nobel Prize, and also laid the foundation for new, much more resonant discoveries.


Source: oralhistory.ru

In 1937, at the height of the purges at home, the scientist decided not to return to the USSR. He is deprived of citizenship for this. It is interesting that Timofeev-Resovsky twice warns about the danger of returning to his homeland by his teacher Nikolai Koltsov, who also later became a victim of terror. You can talk a lot about the reasons for the transfer of the scientist to the not very honorable category of “defectors,” but it is likely that this decision saved his life. Of the three remaining brothers Timofeev-Resovskys, two were shot in the USSR, and with more significant figures, for example, Nikolai Vavilov, they did not stand on ceremony.

Even with the attack on the Soviet Union, the Nazi regime did not take any special measures against the director of the genetics department of the Brain Institute. This was largely due to the good relations of Nikolai Vladimirovich with the scientific establishment of Germany - many simply covered him up without seeing a threat to the regime. Timofeev-Resovsky was not only familiar with various botanists and zoologists, he was friends with scientists and engineers involved in the Nazi atomic project. Do not discount the fact that the researcher supervised the program of radiation mutagenesis at the institute, and already from the end of the 30s, the Nazis definitely showed interest in the atomic problem. Timofeev-Resovsky (or, as Daniil Granin called it in his book, the Bison) was even presented with a fast neutron generator to continue experiments on Drosophila.

Homecoming


In 1943, the Gestapo throws at Mauthausen for participating in the resistance of the son of the Bison, Dmitry, who was preparing the assassination of Vlasov and Rosenberg himself. There is a version that Nikolai Vladimirovich is offered in exchange for the freedom of his son to participate in the program of forced sterilization of gypsies - the Germans appreciated the achievements of the Department of Genetics of the Brain Institute in the field of radio mutagenesis. The scientist refuses, and Dmitry is left in a concentration camp, and on May 1, 1945, they are shot for participation in an underground resistance group.

Timofeev-Resovsky, who barely survived the grief, not only awaits the arrival of Soviet troops in Bukh, but also persuades the three scientists involved in the German nuclear project to stay and not be evacuated to the Americans. In the future, this trinity, physicist K. Zimmer, radiochemist G. Born and radiobiologist A. Kach, will take a direct part in creating the atomic weapons for the Soviet Union.


N.V. Timofeev-Resovsky in the Lubyanka. Source: mbi74.ru

And Nikolai Vladimirovich, unexpectedly for him and absolutely natural for everyone else, was arrested and transferred to Moscow in 1945. As a result - 10 years of camps, 5 years of loss of rights and complete confiscation of property. The verdict did not take into account the numerous scientific merits, the tragedy of his son, and the protection of runaway prisoners of war and ostarbeiters during the war. After his release with a bunch of diseases in 1951, Timofeev-Resovsky will work for the country's defense complex as the head of the radiobiology department at the Sverdlovsk Research Institute. In 1964, she was dissolved, and Nikolai Vladimirovich moved to Obninsk, where he heads the Department of General Radiobiology and Radiation Genetics of the Institute of Medical Radiology. Throughout life, the stigma of “a professor who worked in the Hitler's den” was never removed from the scientist. Timofeev-Resovsky died on March 28, 1981, in 1986 his students attempted his rehabilitation, which was completed successfully only on June 29, 1992.


Source: my-cccp.ru

Some significant facts about the life of the great Bison. Research associate Max Delbrück in 1969 received the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. There is information that the Swedes at one time sent a request to the USSR regarding the fate of Timofeev-Resovsky, but did not receive an answer. Was this request somehow related to the Nobel Committee? Already after the death of the scientist, in 1986, the book “Berlin Wild” was published in Germany, authored by Ellie Welt, wife of Peter Welt, who was saved by Nikolai Vladimirovich. Timofeev-Resovsky was a member of many international academies and scientific societies, and UNESCO included his name in the list of the most significant scientists of the XNUMXth century.
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  1. andrewkor
    andrewkor April 1 2020 06: 53 New
    +4
    At one time, Granin’s book “The Bison” literally struck a fragile children's brain!
    1. snerg7520
      snerg7520 April 2 2020 11: 06 New
      +1
      Timofeev-Resovsky is a typical liberalist, just at that time liberalists were not yet called liberalists ....
      1. Maki Avellevich
        Maki Avellevich April 3 2020 14: 44 New
        +1
        Lenin State Brain Institute under the Scientific Committee of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR.
        That's what I understand!
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs April 1 2020 07: 19 New
    16
    Before, he knew very little about this man, but from the responses to Granin’s book, he treated him well. Just radically changed his mind. A very muddy type, the very fact of working in Nazi Germany is disgusting. I do not accept the excuses that scientists are engaged in pure science.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 April 1 2020 09: 51 New
      +6
      Quote: Jurkovs
      but from responses to Granin’s book, he treated him well

      Gavriil Popov had a rather curious response to Granin’s book (a real delight), the novel itself was a resounding success during the perestroika years, respectively, and the responses in those years were rather muddy, like G. Popov’s, that is, it was necessary to destroy the command and administrative system (read - the USSR), that was the point.
      Years passed, and this novel of Granin became of no interest to anyone, which was to be expected.
    2. Mikle2000
      Mikle2000 15 June 2020 19: 38 New
      0
      But the fact of work in the Stalinist USSR does not bother you?
      1. Jurkovs
        Jurkovs 16 June 2020 10: 43 New
        +1
        As the Americans say: even if she is not right, but this is my homeland.
  3. Amateur
    Amateur April 1 2020 07: 24 New
    16
    his students attempted his rehabilitation, which ended successfully only on June 29, 1992.

    And what is rehabilitation?
    Outstanding geneticist - YES.
    He committed a criminal offense (according to the then Criminal Code of the USSR) - YES
    During the II MV he worked for the Wehrmacht (Hitler Army) -DA
    For all of the above, he was repressed and worked in a "sharashka" - YES
    For the successful implementation of work on the "nuclear project" was amnestied - YES
    After that, for the rest of his life he worked in the specialty -YES
    Life just happened!
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 1 2020 08: 17 New
      -9
      Quote: Amateur
      He committed a criminal offense (according to the then Criminal Code of the USSR) - YES

      What kind?
      Saved yourself from the inadequacies that destroyed his brothers and a bunch of other scientists and innocent people?
      Quote: Amateur
      During the II MV he worked for the Wehrmacht (Hitler Army) -DA

      What nonsense .... Wehrmacht?
      Scientific Institute.
      Is the bakery also a Wehrmacht?

      A magnificent Russian scientist whose fate, like many other Russian scientists, was distorted by inadequacies ...
      How much more would they have done if not for this ....
      1. Amateur
        Amateur April 1 2020 08: 46 New
        15
        What nonsense .... Wehrmacht?
        Scientific Institute.
        Is the bakery also a Wehrmacht?

        Did you develop an atomic bomb, a bacteriological weapon in someone’s garage?
        Well, I’m not going to discuss the bakery, baking bread for enemy soldiers. If the ideas of National Socialism are closer to you than the ideas of communism, then these are your problems.
        How much more they would have done if not for this.

        Specifically, Timofeev-Resovsky was engaged in his favorite science all his life. First on the Bolsheviks, then on the Nazis, then again on the Communists. Nobody interfered with this.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 1 2020 09: 39 New
          -5
          Quote: Amateur
          Did you develop an atomic bomb, a bacteriological weapon in someone’s garage?

          And the brain research, in your opinion, should have been done in the garage?
          Quote: Amateur
          Well, a bakery, baking bread for soldiers an enemyI’m not going to discuss it.

          1.For tens of millions of children, women and the elderly. Therefore, the bakers were not condemned. like the children who consumed their bread.

          That you were in the know: LIFE continues during the war, incl. and baking bread, brain research and the like, regardless of authority.

          2. The scientist is fully rehabilitated by the Supreme Court of the country, all charges of "treason" are recognized by BRED.
          So respect the decisions of the Court. not ravings
          Quote: Amateur
          Specifically, Timofeev-Resovsky was engaged in his favorite science all his life. First on the Bolsheviks, then on the Nazis, then again on the Communists. Nobody interfered with this.

          He worked for SCIENCE and HIS Homeland:
          In the spring of 1945, Timofeev-Resovsky refused the offer to transfer his department to the west of Germany and retained all the staff and equipment until the arrival of Soviet troops.
          Saved a lot of migrant workers compatriots, straightening them inquiries

          it’s not his fault that psychopaths destroyed his three brothers in the 1930s and thereby blocked his path to his homeland, and then chained him to camps for many years ....
          1. Amateur
            Amateur April 1 2020 09: 56 New
            +8
            And brain research,

            Before tearing a shirt on your chest for an accomplice of the Nazis, read what he did. He is a specialist in radiological genetics - mutations from radioactive radiation.
            Timofeev-Resovsky was rehabilitated only in June 1992 by the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation

            In 1991-1992, almost all traitors and enemies of the people were rehabilitated. There was an attempt to rehabilitate even Vlasov with accomplices. But I was smart enough not to disgrace myself completely.
            Personally, I am deeply disgusted by the fact of discussing the rehabilitation of Nazi accomplices. Cooperated - get a punishment. Have served your sentence - sit still.
            In general, attempts to rehabilitate Nazi accomplices should fall under the law "on countering attempts to encroach on historical memory in relation to events that took place during the Second World War."
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich April 1 2020 11: 04 New
              -9
              Quote: Amateur
              Before tearing a shirt on his chest for the Nazi accomplice

              Who gave you the right to insult a person? belay fool
              Him no criminal record.

              Quote: Amateur
              . He is a specialist in radiological genetics - mutations from radioactive radiation.

              And a brain researcher.
              Is this ... a crime? fool
              By that today do not engage in genetics, breeding, etc. in Russia, the USA, etc.
              Quote: Amateur
              In 1991-1992, almost all traitors and enemies of the people were rehabilitated.

              You should go to school, then you would finally know that they began to rehabilitate "enemies of the people" with ...1938-39 years

              At the same time, the bandits who came up with these “enemies” briskly shot from the gang of the commissar GB 1 of Yagoda’s gang, then they shot these berry bandits, who shot them up, already from the gang of the People’s Commissar of the NKVD Yezhov, then from the gang of Beria, etc.

              And rehabilitated, therefore, ALL Soviet time to 91 г
              Quote: Amateur
              Personally, I am deeply disgusted by the fact of discussing the rehabilitation of Nazi accomplices.

              And WHO justifies the REAL, RECOGNIZED BY THE COURT, accomplices, what a WRONG?

              This will never be forgiveness.
            2. peta locksmith
              peta locksmith April 2 2020 18: 41 New
              0
              cit "He is a specialist in radiological genetics - mutations from radioactive radiation"

              at the end of the war, the Nazis quite successfully went on to develop a nuclear bomb and work on radiological genetics - that is, on the effect of radiation on genes and their mutation after radiation exposure - for example, after a nuclear strike, very much in the context of fascist research

              otherwise it would be with his son .....
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 April 1 2020 11: 15 New
            10
            Quote: Olgovich
            it’s not his fault that psychopaths destroyed his three brothers in the 1930s and thereby blocked his path to his homeland, and then chained him to camps for many years ....

            That year, in the 88th, there was a grandmother by the subway with a poster, "I am a victim of the KGB, they closed me in a psychiatric hospital for five years!"
            Coins were thrown to her regularly.
            1. Amateur
              Amateur April 1 2020 12: 25 New
              +2
              Who gave you the right to insult a person? belay fool
              He has no criminal record.

              The criminal record was really lifted from him. But the fact remains.
      2. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U April 1 2020 16: 44 New
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        Saved yourself from the inadequacies that destroyed his brothers and a bunch of other scientists and innocent people?
        Wow, Olgych again broadcasts about inadequacies, as so, for example, these inadequacies were able to provide superiority over Nazi Germany in the production of tanks and tank armor.
        1. fuxila
          fuxila April 2 2020 06: 52 New
          -2
          Is it like Berry, Yezhov and the like helped to ensure the superiority of our country over Germany? Isn't it because they crippled Rokossovsky during torture, breaking his teeth, ribs, etc.? Korolev’s jaw was broken and he later died ahead of time from the consequences of this injury ... General Gorbatov writes in his memoirs that after the tortures that the “fiend-investigators” had arranged for him, he did not want to live. This man, whom even Stalin respectfully spoke of, considered your inadequate “heroes” to be scum who caused irreparable harm to the country.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U April 2 2020 07: 12 New
            -1
            Quote: fuxila
            It's like Berry, Yezhov and the like.
            Olgych specifically remembered these figures? He recorded all the Bolsheviks in inadequate, but with him what to take from the stubborn Russophobe. And by the way, what happened to these figures, do not remind? And why didn’t you remember Beria L.P., Molotov and many others? Or do you imagine that the Russian people themselves built many thousands of factories, institutes of laboratories and other things, and the Bolsheviks strictly interfered with them? Olgych is a lying Russophobe and you are there too.
            1. Fat
              Fat April 2 2020 07: 50 New
              0
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Olgych is a lying Russophobe and you are there too.

              Olegovich is an ardent anti-Soviet. Yes.
              And your attempts to label Russophobia just speak of your level of adequacy. The Russian people were before the advice and there are after.
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 2 2020 08: 21 New
                -1
                The anti-Soviet is always Russophobe, even if he denies the Russian people the mind and ability to make a choice, and the Russian people, for the most part, have chosen the Soviets, and now, for the most part, regrets that they have refused.
                1. Mikle2000
                  Mikle2000 15 June 2020 19: 43 New
                  0
                  Too shy to ask how many years with the Bolsheviks who fought? Chinese? And how much the Bolsheviks had to plant was killed so that the Russian people would make their choice. And by the way, do not remind, in the elections where the Russian people made a choice between whom he chose? Who was recorded on the ballot as an alternative to Bolshevism?
            2. fuxila
              fuxila April 2 2020 15: 10 New
              0
              If Timofeev-Resovsky had returned to the USSR in 1937, then it would have been in the hands of these inadequate figures. Moreover, Yezhov (this is a bisexual always drunk creature) can be called inadequate rather, and Yagoda was exactly the enemy, quite adequate to himself. But Beria did not mention it, because it is pointless to deny his contribution to the same atomic project, but language does not turn out to be his "mind, honor and conscience of our era."
              And I can’t be a Russophobe by definition, because unlike you Communists, I love my Motherland and my people, regardless of who is in power in the country. And you sold the Motherland to the Russo-Japanese and World War I, staging strikes at military factories and railways, corrupting the army, just because you did not like the government and for this you wished to defeat your own country! In 1930, you robbed my grandfather and millions of other Russian peasants under the pretext that it was necessary to build communism, and under Gorbachev-Yeltsin you robbed him a second time under the pretext that communism died and you have perestroika, a new way of thinking and everything else. Actually, both Russia and the Russian people were initially nothing more than an armful of brushwood for the fire of the world revolution.
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 2 2020 16: 10 New
                +1
                Quote: fuxila
                And I can’t be a Russophobe by definition, because unlike you Communists, I love my Motherland and my people, regardless of who is in power in the country.
                Tears of tenderness, yes, plak plak ..
                Quote: fuxila
                And you sold the Motherland to the Russo-Japanese and World War I, staging strikes at military factories and railways, corrupting the army, just because you did not like the government and for this you wished to defeat your own country!
                Yes, you are an expert on how the Russian-Japanese war was merged, of course because of the strikes, Kuropatkin, Stessel and Fock, these are the communists, yeah. As in the first world zemgusars, the army was robbed, and private traders several times raised the price of shells and stuff, and the surplus-appropriation service (a year before the revolutions!) Was introduced, it was all communists!
                Quote: fuxila
                In 1930, you robbed my grandfather and millions of other Russian peasants on the pretext that it was necessary to build communism
                If you really think so, I feel sorry for you, then you have porridge in your head! The Bolsheviks robbed, and indeed so, the village in the 20s. for at least some kind of revival of industry after the war and devastation, and collectivization was carried out to maximize the development of existing industries and create new industries. Only this saved Russia with all its Orthodoxy from death in the Great Patriotic War, not the icon and "God Save the Tsar", not a prosperous peasant on an import tractor, but collective farms with sharply increased commodity production of grain and other things, and TEN THOUSAND new plants and factories, THOUSAND HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS and vocational schools, HUNDREDS of KB and research institutes. All this was created in the 30s by Russian and other peoples under the leadership of the "inadequate", simply the funds received, including from the village, were not released through the Parisian curls, but invested in the country, "inadequate."
                Quote: fuxila
                under Gorbachev-Yeltsin, you robbed him a second time, under the pretext that communism has died and you have perestroika, a new way of thinking and all that
                But what, under the Communists, did they accumulate something, how could it be, a contradiction, sir? To consider Gorbi and Yeltsin as communists, this is schizophrenia, in a way, excuse me.
                Quote: fuxila
                Actually, both Russia and the Russian people were initially nothing more than an armful of brushwood for the fire of the world revolution.
                But when there was a Tsarebatyushka, there was grace all the time, prayers and a ten-hour working day before the hernia, and still a child’s, for there’s nothing for the Russian man to have a free head, “We’ll get enough to eat out”, the commies came up with it. The Russian peasant did not understand his happiness, he followed the Bolsheviks.
                1. fuxila
                  fuxila April 3 2020 14: 56 New
                  +1
                  Yes, you are an expert on how the Russian-Japanese war was merged, of course because of the strikes, Kuropatkin, Stessel and Fock, these are the communists, yeah.

                  What does Kuropatkin, Stessel and Fock have to do with it? If you are going to compare two armies, then there were no such traitors as Vlasov in the Russian army. And the fact that the activity of the Bolsheviks during the years of the REV and the WWII was treasonous, you yourself understand, and therefore you cannot object in essence to anything.
                  All this was created in the 30s by Russian and other peoples under the leadership of the "inadequate", simply the funds received, including from the village, were not released through the Parisian curls, but invested in the country, "inadequate"

                  As for the inadequate, we are talking about punitive bodies, and how they worked it was enough to read the memories of those who survived prisons and camps and such memories are a dime a dozen, I advise you to read the same Gorbatov, whom you can not suspect, unlike Solzhenitsyn, in distorting history. The fact that you drag here Molotov and others is just another departure from the topic, because to recognize Yagoda, Yezhov and their henchmen as adequate people to see conscience is not enough.
                  Only this saved Russia with all its Orthodoxy from death in the Great Patriotic War, not the icon and "God Save the Tsar" ...

                  For us Orthodox Christians, salvation came along with the reversal of Stalinist politics towards supporting the church, and from that moment on, incl. flight of Moscow with icons, there was a turning point in the war. And where did the Reds get such an irrepressible desire to meddle in religious affairs, you have your own pseudo-faith in Marx-Engels-Lenin and pray for it, and in the next world they will figure out who is right.
                  But what, under the Communists, did they accumulate something, how could it be, a contradiction, sir? To consider Gorbi and Yeltsin as communists, this is schizophrenia, in a way, excuse me.

                  Porridge in your head. If you plump and fool around, then there will definitely not be any accumulations, and a person who knows how to work will always be able to rise. Do you really not understand such elementary things? My grandfather built three houses, from all around came to him with horses - to shoe them, and kept the farm, and in retirement I learned how to repair watches and also made good money on it. No, Gorbi and Yeltsin were precisely Communists, members of not just the party, but the Central Committee of the CPSU, and Gorbi was even the most important communist in the country. So you have schizophrenia.
                  But when the Tsarebatyushka grace was

                  I never said that under the king there was grace, these are your fantasies. But if we go from the opposite, then under the Communists there was such a grace that they bought grain in America, and to buy a delayed Zaporozhets it was necessary not only to defend the queue, but also to get permission from the labor collective.
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U April 3 2020 16: 14 New
                    -1
                    Quote: fuxila
                    What does Kuropatkin, Stessel and Fock have to do with it? If you are going to compare two armies, then there were no such traitors as Vlasov in the Russian army
                    Oh, what are you savvy, and what happened to these characters after the wars? Which of them was hanged in the know?
                    Quote: fuxila
                    And the fact that the activity of the Bolsheviks during the years of the REV and the WWII was treasonous, you yourself understand, and therefore you cannot object in essence to anything.
                    But do you know who made the tsaristyushka abdicate and turned the February coup, the Bolsheviks, or what? Who committed the act of treason? Tsarist generals and associates, not Bolsheviks, no. Who renounced Nicholas II and blessed the Provisional Government? ROC, all so Orthodox, and its elite!
                    Quote: fuxila
                    The fact that you drag here Molotov and others is just another departure from the topic, because to recognize Yagoda, Yezhov and their henchmen as adequate people to see conscience is not enough.
                    How did Berry and Ezhov finish? Let me remind you that Olgych recorded ALL of the Bolsheviks in "inadequate"; it was YOU who began to separate them.
                    Quote: fuxila
                    No, Gorbi and Yeltsin were precisely Communists, members of not just the party, but the Central Committee of the CPSU, and Gorbi was even the most important communist in the country.
                    Are you really that? Yeltsin openly admitted that he had gone to the Communist Party strictly for the sake of a career, Gorbi is still struggling, but only the same thing. What kind of communists are they? So imagine, then the current patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church is a bargainer, and cynical:
                    It was possible to "promote" the business after a few years. In 1992, Gundyaev opened the financial and trading group Nika. The company was engaged in the import of tobacco products into the country under the guise of HUMANITARIAN AID. Those. cigarettes were not taxed. It was possible to crank out only having “loyal friends” in the highest echelons of power.
                    But this is not so, right? wink
                    Quote: fuxila
                    If you plump and fool around, then there will definitely not be any accumulations, and a person who knows how to work will always be able to rise. Do you really not understand such elementary things?
                    It is you who do not know the elementary logic, then you accuse the Bolsheviks of robbing the people, even twice, then it suddenly turns out that with them you could earn and live quite prosperously. Although what to expect from a person who believes in this fairy tale:
                    Quote: fuxila
                    including flight of Moscow with icons, there was a turning point in the war

                    Quote: fuxila
                    I never said that under the king there was grace, these are your fantasies
                    Of course, they didn’t talk about grace, only this nonsense was written:
                    Quote: fuxila
                    just because you didn’t like the government and for the sake of it wishing to defeat your own country
                    I didn’t like the government, yeah, the shape of the nose infuriated. For at least a little normal life for the working people, the Bolsheviks fought, so as to obscurantize obscurantism.
                    Quote: fuxila
                    you have your own pseudo-faith in Marx-Engels-Lenin on it and pray
                    The Bolsheviks had faith in science, and M.E.L. introduced a scientific justification for the need for a just and humane world order.
                    Quote: fuxila
                    But if we go from the opposite, then under the Communists there was such a grace that they bought grain in America
                    Is it reproached to such communists? Are you seriously?! What in this way pulled the country even out of hunger, and didn’t occur to you to maintain your usual level of consumption? Although what I mean ...
                    Quote: fuxila
                    To buy a delayed Zaporozhets, it was necessary not only to stand in line, but also to obtain permission from the labor collective.
                    Just don’t need nonsense that frank, by the year 84 already Muscovites were freely sold, not to mention Constipation.
                    And by the way, where did you get the idea that I am a communist? Just a lie about the history of my homeland I really do not like.
                    1. fuxila
                      fuxila April 3 2020 17: 28 New
                      +1
                      What happened to these characters after the wars?

                      You still haven’t explained why you drag Kuropatkin, Stessel and Fock ... did you like their names? Well, there were such generals, I know about their existence and then what?
                      But do you know who made the tsaristyushka abdicate and turned the February coup, the Bolsheviks, or what? Who committed the act of treason? Tsarist generals and associates, not Bolsheviks, no. Who renounced Nicholas II and blessed the Provisional Government? ROC, all so Orthodox, and its elite!

                      And that again got out? The Bolsheviks in the REV and WWII conducted treasonous activity and this is the diagnosis. As for the generals who committed the February coup, I will say the same thing and the top of the Russian Orthodox Church behaved treacherously.
                      Let me remind you that Olgych recorded ALL of the Bolsheviks in "inadequate"; it was YOU who began to separate them.

                      Here are the words of Olgovich: "Saved yourself from the inadequacies that destroyed his brothers and a bunch of other scientists and innocent people?" This is where here about all the Bolsheviks? Or do you think all the Bolsheviks participated in repressions against innocent people? You have a rich imagination!
                      Are you really that? Yeltsin openly admitted that he had gone to the Communist Party strictly for the sake of a career, Gorbi is still struggling, but only the same thing. What kind of communists are they? So to imagine, then the current patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church is a bargainer, moreover, cynical

                      This is a question for you, are you normal? Your statement that Gorbachev and Yeltsin were not communists is a real and primitive lie! If I were the same liar, now I would also roll over in the air and say that he is not Orthodox at all, and therefore let him trade whatever he wants. Only I won’t do it, unlike you, I don’t hide my head in the sand like an ostrich, and if the actions of the patriarch included corpus delicti, then he must answer.
                      I didn’t like the government, yeah, the shape of the nose infuriated.

                      Clear business, the shape of the nose was different for them, the Bronstein, Apfelbaum and others had a case.
                      What in this way pulled the country even out of hunger, but didn’t occur to you to maintain your usual level of consumption?

                      The level of consumption in the country after the Thief and the Civil War simply collapsed, and therefore it was then necessary to pull it again. But I am not going to blame solely on the Bolsheviks, the whole society had a hand in it: numerous revolutionaries, liberal intellectuals, and even students who praised the Mikado welcome telegrams. Russian society was hurt and received what they received (deserved).
                      1. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 3 2020 20: 04 New
                        -1
                        Quote: fuxila
                        You still haven’t explained why you drag Kuropatkin, Stessel and Fock ... did you like their names? Well, there were such generals, I know about their existence and then what?
                        Well, yes, these people, and many others from the royal elite, are not Communists at all, but, on the contrary, who failed the Russo-Japanese War with action, and inaction, frankly criminal and even treacherous, for you are just generals, well, well. It’s clear that it’s easiest to work under a fool, oh, all the commies are to blame, and these, the generals and officials, passed by. By the way, you didn’t answer what happened to the culprits of the defeat in the REV and to Vlasov, who was woven by you. They did not compare fate, so to speak. Why? Yes, because Vlasov was pulled up.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        And that again got out? The Bolsheviks in the REV and WWII conducted treasonous activity and this is the diagnosis.
                        You imagined yourself someone, an Orthodox inquisitor or something, so that I could get out, you evade, and Vlasov was also dragged into Zaporozhets with grain purchases. Did the activity of the Bolsheviks lead to the February revolution? Even the decomposition of troops is not the result of the activity of the Bolsheviks. Enough without them and many times more people and factors. If you do not know this or pretend that you do not know, this does not cancel the fact.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        As for the generals who committed the February coup, I will say the same thing and the top of the Russian Orthodox Church behaved treacherously.
                        In general, it’s strange, okay, the Bolsheviks, they considered themselves enemies of tsarism, which means they couldn’t be traitors in principle, but this is not important, but the important thing is that traitors to the tsar’s elite simply, stupidly and unpretentiously, had incomparably more opportunities to influence the course of this and preceding wars, what’s so hard to understand?

                        Quote: fuxila
                        Here are the words of Olgovich: "Saved yourself from the inadequacies that destroyed his brothers and a bunch of other scientists and innocent people?" This is where here about all the Bolsheviks? Or do you think all the Bolsheviks participated in repressions against innocent people? You have a rich imagination!
                        Wow, but where not about everyone? I am familiar with the comments of Olga, he does not understand what color the Bolsheviks are. And here, where those last names that you cited, Olga did not write anything about them, nothing, it’s you who turned on your imagination as it is, but you dump it on me, it should be a shame.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        Your statement that Gorbachev and Yeltsin were not communists is a real and primitive lie
                        I don’t even know how to masterfully work under a fool, this is talent. Members of the CPSU, and former, and climbed into the CPSU for a career, are far from the same as the Communists. The words "true communist" are undoubtedly:
                        words spoken by Yeltsin in the US Congress in 1992: The world can breathe quietly: the communist idol, who sowed social discord, hostility and unprecedented cruelty everywhere on earth, which inspired fear in the human community, collapsed. Collapsed forever. And I am here to assure you: on our land we will not let him rise again!

                        Quote: fuxila
                        If I were the same liar, now I would also roll over in the air and say that he is not Orthodox at all, and therefore let him trade what he wants
                        Well, it’s understandable, an inconvenient truth that cannot be refuted, is a lie, it’s Orthodox, yes. It only turns out that if Gorbi and Yeltsin are communists, then the current head of the Russian Orthodox Church is a merchant, this is your logic, I followed her.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        if the actions of the patriarch included a crime
                        Oh, yes, of course, a head in the sand, you impudently ascribe your actions to me. Of course there is no crime in the import of tobacco, and according to rumors of alcohol, not a Cahors at the same time, but is it appropriate for a true Orthodox, and even a clergyman in dignity, to do this? Oh yes, you can also grind, and even at a discount, as your own.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        The level of consumption in the country after the Thief and the Civil War simply collapsed, and therefore it was then necessary to pull it again.
                        You piled up a bunch of grain purchases and the purchase of a machine, what does the October Revolution and the GV have to do with it? Before the Great War, almost no grain was bought. And during the period of saturation with personal cars, which you mentioned, grain was imported for the meat and dairy industry of the CX. I’m not Olgych, I won’t write that “I’m ashamed to not know this”, it can happen. )
                        Quote: fuxila
                        But I’m not going to blame solely on the Bolsheviks, the whole society had a hand in it: numerous revolutionaries, liberal intellectuals, and even students
                        It’s strange, the whole society was mentioned, but the government, the nobility and the bureaucracy didn’t remember how it was, and it was precisely in their actions, worthless, and behavior, redneck, the root of defeats, not in the Bolsheviks, is not. For example, an insult to “self-propelled people” is not embarrassed in high society and the army used it. And this is a shame to not know, mentioning the Russo-Japanese War.
                      2. fuxila
                        fuxila April 3 2020 21: 17 New
                        +1
                        By the way, you didn’t answer what happened to the culprits of the defeat in the REV and to Vlasov, who was woven by you. They did not compare fate, so to speak. Why? Yes, because Vlasov was pulled up.

                        I don’t understand, are you interested in my personal opinion of the three above-mentioned persons? If Kuropatkin also deserves attention as commander-in-chief and minister of war, then what side is Fock here? Kuropatkin turned out to be a worthless military leader and was removed from his post, and Stessel handed over Port Arthur when it became clear that he could not stand another assault. Whether it was worth fighting to the end is a moot point, but just in case he was still judged. But I can’t say anything about Fock, one of the many rank-and-file generals and how he generally influenced the outcome of the war, only one knows you. And the Soviet generals were beaten more than once, it was not in vain that they reached the Volga, and that Stalin hung them all?
                        And what does the culprits of the defeats in the REV and Vlasov. A member of the VKPb Vlasov not only cheated on the party and the government, but also went over to the side of the enemy, for which he was hanged. But what, Kuropatkin and Stessel have fled to the Japanese and organized an army of Russian prisoners to fight with Russia? Are you out of your mind?
                        oh all commies are to blame

                        Why so brazenly and stupidly distort my words, this is where I wrote about all the guilty commies? I don’t even use such words in my vocabulary ...
                        okay, the Bolsheviks, they considered themselves enemies of tsarism, which means they couldn’t be traitors,

                        What a discovery! So, after all, the enemies of the Communists, in particular the Vlasovites, considered themselves their enemies and therefore, according to your logic, “could not be traitors in principle”. Congratulations, you just justified Vlasov and his last.
                        so masterfully working under a fool

                        It’s you who don’t pretend to be a fool, it has been like this all your life, at first carry it on your hands, and then scum what the light stands on. While Trotsky was in power with accomplices, they sang huts, called the ships (destroyer Trotsky), and then under Stalin they began to pour mud and applaud Stalin. Stalin died and immediately became the wrong communist, and Khrushchev became the right communist. They threw off the Khrushchev and immediately found out that he was a voluntarist and so on, well, and Leonid Ilyich, of course, is the right one. True and he is wrong, stagnation spread, and Gorby showed the way to the future, and then he was shamed and a new regular Communist Zyuganov appeared. Who is true there and who is not true, sort it out yourself, and to me all the shades of this r ... are not interesting. By the way, the entire current elite did not fly from Mars, but is directly related to the Soviet nomenclature.
                        Did you imagine yourself, an Orthodox inquisitor or something,

                        And you don’t like spinning in a frying pan, but give a clear answer to the question - are those who, during the war, engaged in subversive activities against their country traitors or not? So do not answer, because everything is clear already.
                        Of course there is no crime in the import of tobacco, and according to rumors of alcohol

                        Is it rumored or really? I’m not an old woman and I don’t comment on rumors. If you know that there was a crime, then contact the prosecutor. For me, as a believer, such actions discredit him, even if everything was according to the law. But for atheists it’s okay, just a business ...
                        That's strange, the whole society was mentioned, but the government, nobility and bureaucracy did not remember

                        I still haven’t mentioned many people: peasants, burghers, Cossacks, priests, workers, etc., because I quite clearly wrote that the whole society was hurt, and not just individual representatives.
                      3. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 3 2020 21: 51 New
                        -1
                        Quote: fuxila
                        What a discovery! So, after all, the enemies of the Communists, in particular the Vlasovites, considered themselves their enemies and therefore, according to your logic, “could not be traitors in principle”. Congratulations, you just justified Vlasov and his last.
                        This is a blatant lie, the Vlasov people first changed, including the oath, and only then they pretended to be anti-communists, like ideological ones, you know what the hell. The Communists did not take the oath to the king. Only a demagogue can compare them.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        I don’t understand, are you interested in my personal opinion of the three above-mentioned persons? If Kuropatkin also deserves attention as commander-in-chief and minister of war, then what side is Fock here?
                        Well, not Fock, well, Stessel, for example, what does it change? It is more important that it was you who pulled the RYAV into a dispute, it’s not me, accusing the Communists of treason, during this and subsequent wars, and here you wag, with what side, and whereby.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        And you don’t spin like in a frying pan, but give a clear answer to the question - those who during the war are engaged in subversive activities against their country as traitors or not
                        The Bolsheviks did not take the oath to the tsarist government, and acted in the name of the interests of the working people of Russia, as they understood it, so the Bolsheviks are not traitors. And again, not the actions of the Bolsheviks led to the defeat of Russia in the REV, and the February coup of 17.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        It’s you who don’t pretend to be a fool, it has been like this all your life, first carry it on your hands, and then you scum what the light is on
                        Here you are Trotsky and Khrushchev dragged, congratulations.
                        I will stupidly remind you what you think, or pretend that you think Yeltsin and Gorbi are Communists. And the first openly stated that this is not so. And deny it either be a fool or pretend to be.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        Is it rumored or really? I'm not an old woman and I don’t comment on rumors
                        So there is no objection to tobacco, but you can’t get the rumors to the point, yes.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        For me, as a believer, such actions discredit him, even if everything was according to the law.
                        Well, even so, do the actions of the EBN and Gorbi not discredit them as communists? Obviously yes! They are not communists.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        And for atheists, it's okay, just a business

                        So it turns out that the head of the Russian Orthodox Church is not a believer, in fact this is your conclusion, but why did you write the EBN and Gorbi to the Communists, and this is not so, because of their deeds ...
                      4. fuxila
                        fuxila April 3 2020 23: 11 New
                        +1
                        This is a blatant lie, the Vlasov people first changed, including the oath, and only then they pretended to be anti-communists, like ideological ones, you know what the hell. The Communists did not take the oath to the king.

                        Not all accused of treason and participation in the Vlasov movement swore allegiance to the Soviet regime. For example, Krasnov and Shkuro were not even Soviet citizens, but were accused and hanged of treason. So, in fact, it is clear to everyone that treason is treason, even if formally you didn’t sign anything. If we take the Bolsheviks, such as the foreign citizen Rakovsky, of course, did not swear, but the rest swore the same as during the coronation of Nicholas II, and when they entered the public service (there was such a fad, but you also had to sign a paper that neither what secret societies you are not a member of). Lenin, by the way, was a lawyer. And many swore allegiance while serving in the army.
                        And again, not the actions of the Bolsheviks led to the defeat of Russia in the REV, and the February coup of 17.

                        And I’ve never said such a thing anywhere ...
                        So it turns out that the head of the Russian Orthodox Church is not a believer

                        I do not claim that he is not a believer, and believers stumble and even commit crimes, only the demand from all is different, one thing is a simple layman, another thing is a priest, and even more so the head of the church.
                        I will stupidly remind you what you think, or pretend that you think Yeltsin and Gorbi are Communists. And the first openly stated that this is not so. And deny it either be a fool or pretend to be.

                        Why else did this drunken scam? Here to believe him, so truly be a fool.
                        And Zyuganov, you also have the wrong communist? If not, then who is right, can I find out? I’ll take a closer look at the biography of a true communist, I can penetrate and look at the next election I will vote for him.
                      5. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 4 2020 06: 00 New
                        -1
                        Quote: fuxila
                        Not all accused of treason and participation in the Vlasov movement swore allegiance to the Soviet regime. For example, Krasnov and Shkuro were not even Soviet citizens, but were accused and hanged of treason.
                        Yes, it’s already clear that it’s you who are justifying the Vlasovites and accomplices of the Nazis, although this is being blamed on me.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        swore and more like: and during the coronation of Nicholas II
                        Only they did not know about it! laughing This is the same as saying that at the next inauguration, the country's population swears allegiance to the President, and not vice versa.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        when they entered the civil service (there was such a fad, moreover, it was necessary to sign a paper that you are not a member of any secret societies). Lenin, by the way, was a lawyer. And many swore allegiance while serving in the army.
                        The leadership of the Bolsheviks was not in the service of the tsarist government, a surprise, and the foundation of the party consisted of workers' activists and members of the same party who did not take any oath. And the oath of the attorney sounded something like this:
                        “I promise and swear by the Almighty God, before his holy Gospel and the Life-giving Cross of the Lord, to remain faithful to His Imperial Majesty the Sovereign Emperor, Autocrat of All-Russian, to fulfill exactly and in my extreme understanding, the laws of the Empiredo not write or speak nothing in courtthat could lead to a weakening of the Orthodox Church, state, society, family and good morality, but honestly and conscientiously fulfill the duties of the title that I take upon myself, not violate the respect for the courts and authorities and to protect the interests of my principals, or persons whose affairs will be assigned to me, remembering that in all this I will have to give an answer before the law and before God in His final judgment. In witness of this, I kiss the words and the cross of my Savior. Amen"
                        Vladimir Ilyich worked a lot in this field, but only in the process of work he did not have any respect for the courts or the authorities, but his attitude to the defendants and the zeal for their protection were known. The oath is valid as long as the person and state to which the oath themselves do not change their oath. The oath to the traitors is invalid. The tsar himself, a significant part of his entourage, part of the generals and the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church, and therefore most of the Russian Orthodox Church, openly changed the oath, albeit later.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        Why else did this drunken scam? Here to believe him, so truly be a fool.
                        So how, that is, to believe him, when he called himself a communist, you can, and when he began to say the opposite, then everything, no faith, he immediately alcoholic? Logically, of course.
                        Quote: fuxila
                        And Zyuganov, you also have the wrong communist?
                        Now, Zyuganov has already entered. Just a reminder:
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Saved yourself from the inadequacies that destroyed his brothers and a bunch of other scientists and innocent people?
                        Wow, Olgych again broadcasts about inadequacies, as so, for example, these inadequacies were able to provide superiority over Nazi Germany in the production of tanks and tank armor.
                        And then you started to drag Yagoda, Yezhov, Rokossovsky, Korolev, Gorbatov into the Russian-Japanese War, WWII, then you accused ALL of the Communists, and it looks like I personally, in treason, robbery, and again in robbery:
                        Quote: fuxila
                        because unlike you Communists, I love my Motherland and my people, regardless of who is in power in the country. And you sold the Motherland to the Russo-Japanese and World War I, staging strikes at military factories and railways, corrupting the army, just because you did not like the government and for this you wished to defeat your own country! In 1930, you robbed my grandfather and millions of other Russian peasants on the pretext that it was necessary to build communism, and under Gorbachev-Yeltsin you robbed him a second time
                        And now Zyuganov didn’t please you either; did he rob someone? Your grandfather, a neighbor's kitten?

                        And again, the anti-adviser is always Russophobe, whatever he invents about himself. Because the anti-Soviet refuses the Russian people the ability to think and make decisions. The Bolsheviks threw off temporary workers with the support of the Russian people and defended Russia from traitors and their foreign accomplices with the support of both the hands of the Russian people and turned Russia into a powerful technical power with the support of the hands of the Russian people. Anyone who denies this, who considers the Russian people to be deceived and intimidated by the Bolsheviks, can call himself and even sincerely consider anyone, but he is a Russophobe. The Nazis, the present Anglo-Saxons and other Europe are anti-communists and undisguised Russophobes, and such people as Olgych think so, at the same time, I hope that with you everything is at least not quite so.
        2. ANB
          ANB April 5 2020 17: 05 New
          0
          . ten hour work day

          Ten hours is still divine.
  • knn54
    knn54 April 1 2020 09: 17 New
    12
    "... Here are all these progressive young people who are buzzing, everything requires democracy, this and that. God save and have mercy! Can you imagine what will happen if we suddenly have democracy. Indeed, the masses of people ... they will be given the opportunity to arbitrariness, because this will be the dominance of the most demonic scumbags! The devil knows that! Worse than the Stalin regime. They will finish off any rational methods of management, plunder everything that is possible, and then sell Russia in parts. To the colony Yes, what are these puppies! You read it Academician Sakharov’s e-mail? Read. It goes around Moscow. I read. Such naive nonsense, generally speaking, some kind of outdated technocracy is proposed. All of this is well-intentioned, of course, but it seems that the person does not know what is being done in the world, he doesn’t understand in politics, in economics. A very low level of writing. "
    Nikolai Vladimirovich Timofeev-Resovsky, 1975.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ April 1 2020 10: 25 New
      +3
      Have you read this famous letter from Academician Sakharov? Read. It walks around Moscow. I read. Such naive nonsense, generally speaking, some kind of outdated technocracy is proposed. All of this is well-intentioned, of course, but it creates the feeling that a person does not know what is being done in the world, does not understand in politics, in economics. Very low level scripture. "

      Quite right, Sakharov was building himself blissfully out of himself, supposedly doing everything with the best intentions, but did not want to answer for the results of his calls. What is his nonsense about Afghanistan, which he voiced at the Congress of Soviets, and when the Afghan Chervonopissky demanded evidence from him, he issued - "prove that I'm wrong!" But Timofeev-Resovsky, at least, an honest scientist - received a sentence for working for the Nazis, honestly served time and did not stink later.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 1 2020 09: 41 New
    +5
    A figure about whom they will argue for a long time. A large, versatile scientist: from genetics to the theory of evolution. His seminars were remembered by many of the older generation.

    I had to meet a little with his student A.N. Tyuryukanov, a well-known soil scientist.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 1 2020 10: 22 New
    +3
    How much has this man done for science? A lot of! I think no one will argue with this. What would happen to him if he returned to the USSR in the 30s? With a probability of 99,99999% death!
    And about the betrayal ... So the war veterans and the people living at that time had to decide about this, and certainly not us. If you and I were in such a situation: stay and live, come back and die ... who would do otherwise?
    1. WayKheThuo
      WayKheThuo April 1 2020 11: 22 New
      0
      With a probability of 99,99999% death!

      It’s not a fact that with such a probability, but it’s not scary - the scary thing is that he would live in constant expectation of an arrest, and under such conditions only geniuses-ascetics can make breakthroughs, and there are practically no such geniuses in nature.
      Regarding the likelihood of an arrest - yes, it is very high: there are no special patrons, the direction of work is actually so-so important, because it comes back another 10-30 years later, the origin again let us down. In short - one denunciation and all.
    2. gsev
      gsev April 2 2020 10: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Doccor18
      And about the betrayal ...

      After 1945, he was able to transmit to the USSR methods of work in German science that he could study throughout the war. I recruited 3 outstanding specialists to work in the USSR. What intelligence officer of that time could boast of such successes? I suppose that in freedom I could bring the Motherland much more benefit. Rarely great successes are achieved by those who behave too correctly without leaving their knees.
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo April 1 2020 11: 15 New
    +2
    Because of the difficult fate of such people, I am very, very skeptical about the arguments of the apologists for the purges of the 30s. How much could this man make useful for his country, his people! How much he could advance the development of genetics in our country, but because of the ruthless machine of repression chewing without a trace of everything and everything, mutilating people not only physically, but mostly morally, such people preferred to leave "over the hill" and, as a rule, calmly lived out their life by making a feasible contribution to foreign science, if they had the flair and common sense not to return to their homeland.
    I think so.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey April 1 2020 12: 43 New
      +7
      Quote: WayKhe Thuo
      but because of the ruthless machine of repression chewing without a trace of everything and everything, crippling people not only physically, but mostly morally, such people preferred to leave "over the hill"

      Poor stupid and unadapted Peter Leonidovich Kapitsa ..
      1. WayKheThuo
        WayKheThuo April 1 2020 13: 08 New
        0
        True, it was like that. And there were many others who did not leave, so what? Does this justify landing? Or do you think that the scientist will work more efficiently when he hears about the next criminal cases almost every day? Or do you seriously believe that Korolev, Tupolev and hundreds of other, nameless scientists, engineers and designers will work more effectively in the "sharashka"?
        I would be very happy to send zealous advocates of purges in these very years in order to see how they instantly cross right on the fly.
        It’s easy, almost a century later, to talk about purges, as some “continuation of the civil war,” as Konstantin Semin said in an interview, and when this “continuation” comes to you at night and throws it into the funnel with kicks in the ass, it somehow falls into a kind the pseudo-scientific understanding approach also reveals the real truth of life, which says that the millstone of the purges is equally experienced by both the professor and the peasant, and the right and the guilty. It is in this collective responsibility that their (purges) horror is contained.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey April 1 2020 13: 10 New
          +4
          Quote: WayKhe Thuo
          Or do you seriously believe that Korolev, Tupolev and hundreds of other, nameless scientists, engineers and designers will work more effectively in the "sharashka"?

          Well, in "sharashka" is better in any way than in the camp ... or will quotations of "Spark" begin now?
          1. WayKheThuo
            WayKheThuo April 1 2020 13: 17 New
            +2
            It's better. No doubt. Or maybe even better in your own laboratory? Or in your own KB? AND?
            In principle, I do not accept collective responsibility towards the citizens of my country. If there are enemies, dig the earth, search, prove and punish. And if the authorities are ready to rot in prison the poor fellow of the professor, who foolishly blundered too much, and his assistant, a * fucking salesman who was aiming for his place, wrote a denunciation and his tracker "worked as it should", burying a whole scientific direction, I’m I consider not just a flaw in the government, but a criminal flaw in the government.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey April 1 2020 13: 19 New
              +2
              Quote: WayKhe Thuo
              I basically do not accept collective responsibility

              And what do you think of embezzlers of public funds? Or can some be forgiven? All animals ... and so on ..
              1. WayKheThuo
                WayKheThuo April 1 2020 13: 33 New
                +3
                Very simple - the embezzler, according to the episodes proved by the courts, must return the money with interest. Good interest. And if he does not have enough money, let his relatives and closest friends answer. The whole circle.
                But this is not a collective responsibility. This is a family clan responsibility, which changes things a bit.
                By the way, there is no need for a squander in prison; you don’t need to spend money on its maintenance and protection - return the loot and fly with a white swan.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey April 1 2020 13: 35 New
                  +3
                  And how, doesn’t your consciousness split? In “sharashka” they returned if there was anything.

                  “And if he doesn’t have enough money, let his relatives and closest friends answer. The whole circle.” - Well, and what didn’t knock before, now bathe together ... And you are a humanist.

                  1. WayKheThuo
                    WayKheThuo April 1 2020 14: 05 New
                    +3
                    Firstly, you don’t need to “take a steam bath” - just give the money back. Give the cooked, along with interest. And go wherever you want with the whole family, at least "over the hill", at least to Mars.
                    Secondly, were relatives the consumers of stolen resources? Of course. Did the wife know? Well, obviously, she knew - a normal wife cannot not know where her husband brings money from. She knew, but did not refuse from foreign resorts, nor from clothes worth a few minimum wages, nor from bars, restaurants, fitness-spas. So - answer. Moreover, when you got married, did you talk about common misfortune and common joy? Yes? Go ahead guys.
                    Thirdly. If a friend of yours transferred your money and assigned it to "looker," then probably not for "thanks." Did you have a "small share" with this money? Of course I did. They will prove it, but if you wish, you can prove it, pay, dear, pay with interest.
                    What are the claims to such a situation? What is unfair, wrong in them?
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey April 1 2020 14: 09 New
                      0
                      Quote: WayKhe Thuo
                      What is unfair, wrong in them?

                      And what was the minimum wage in the USSR in the 30s?
                      1. WayKheThuo
                        WayKheThuo April 1 2020 14: 11 New
                        0
                        AND! Clear!
                        We are about different things.
                        The end of the conversation.
                      2. mat-vey
                        mat-vey April 1 2020 14: 15 New
                        0
                        We are all about the same. Or do you think in the USSR you had to spit on embezzlers? And do not care that the war is on the verge?
                  2. Grim Reaper
                    Grim Reaper April 2 2020 02: 05 New
                    0
                    An interesting point of view. And how to give if all the stolen goods have already been spent? What measure to apply? Yes, it might be better to send from the country. That's just ..... on the Canaries. ???
          2. silberwolf88
            silberwolf88 April 1 2020 18: 57 New
            +4
            Tupolev and his team were imprisoned (note they didn’t shoot them) for a completely understandable embezzlement of cash for their own needs during a business trip to the United States ... domestic hide shown ... and failure to purchase SI-47 drawings (aka DC-3 and future LI -2) ... they bought in inch sizes instead of metric ones (there was one for export) ... and then the design bureau under the leadership of Lisunov barely managed to make alterations to the war (these are tales from the academician Arkhangelsky who didn’t sit down with them, well, he didn’t go in the USA, and deputy Tupolev in KB)
            There you need to deal with each figure ...
            And Beria regularly otkazyvatsya Kikoin (participant in the atomic project) whose brother frayed a lot of superfluous and nasty things about the Soviet regime ... and many other stories about would have been shot with probability and others if
    2. silberwolf88
      silberwolf88 April 1 2020 18: 49 New
      +1
      I join you)) ... yeah and his friend is also a Nobel laureate Semenov ... who fought in the army of Kolchak ...
  • Campanella
    Campanella April 1 2020 13: 03 New
    +2
    You are a naive person with an idealistic worldview.
    And in the established state structure, such things are no exception.
    And in an extreme construction environment surrounded by enemies, this is inevitable. Here is the current government of the paintball players rolled in an irresponsible term. And there is no such rejection by society of such draconian measures. In conditions of a "siege" situation, this does not look so bloody and oppressive. How many difficult fates did the victory of the liberal democrats in Russia provide after the collapse of the USSR? But I did not hear in relation to Gorbachev, Yeltsin and Putin definitions in their tyranny from Western civilized states.
    Putin is called a dictator, but not a bloody one.
    So do not judge and will not be judged. I do not condone Stalin; he, as a leader, has many mistakes, but this is different. Man, each of us is imperfect and we ourselves bring hell into our lives, making not always conscious choice (emotional) choice and follow our biological instincts.
    1. WayKheThuo
      WayKheThuo April 1 2020 13: 24 New
      -1
      La Poplar. How did you get the constant "environments", "extreme construction sites" and other game! How many years he lived with the "scoop", so much I heard this fucking. I recently turned on the 1st channel - again returned to the 80s - to listen to nausea and tone, and the construction of phrases from there.
      Only there is a serious difference - with the oldest general secretaries there was no such bacchanalia and lawlessness at the top in the “cut and dump” part.
      So it turns out that the noodles on the subject of "enemies around" remained the same, and the power at the same time for some reason feels much fatter. How so? After all, are we in the same boat? Or not?
      It seems to me that it’s not at all.
      1. Campanella
        Campanella April 1 2020 14: 22 New
        +3
        This is of course crap.
        but it works! And besides, the Soviet government did not lie, there were plans to destroy the USSR.
        It’s hard to say about Russia, but I have no doubt that the views of Western politicians on Russia are clearly predatory, to recall at least the repeated revelations of Albright and some others.
        What makes you think that we are with the authorities in the same boat? They live separately, be treated separately ...
        But it is fatter because the Soviet regime was nevertheless one way or another socially oriented.
        And the current rulers in this sense have no ideological brakes and live like kings and drag their children into hiding without hiding.
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey April 1 2020 13: 31 New
      +4
      Quote: Campanella
      You are a naive person with an idealistic worldview.

      No, it’s just like another attempt to measure the past with a modern ruler ..
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri April 1 2020 20: 43 New
        0
        Most likely, this WayKheThuo is a creature from the Olgovichoobraznykh group, which, as Perestroika once flashed, "puffed up", did not come to consciousness.
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo April 1 2020 13: 10 New
    +2
    I decided to crawl a bit on the Web for our hero:
    1. Obviously, from the point of view of the Criminal Code of those times, he was a “defector” and received his term completely legally.
    2. Convicted in the 46th, and in the 47th transferred to the "sharashka". In the 55th year, for his work on the atomic project, he was not only released, but also his conviction was lifted. In this vein, I do not understand the efforts to rehabilitate him in 92, although I probably do not understand something.
    3. The similarity of the methods of modern bandits and that (ours?) Repressive machine was striking: from the beginning we will take everything from you, send to the camp, there we will practically starve to death, and then, after slightly feeding, we will define it as a “sharashka”, and you You’ll be grateful to us for the grave of life, because with all the fibers of your soul you felt what you managed to avoid, and you will work “for fear”, that is, “effectively”. Purely gangster approach.
    4. But most of all I liked our terry, "soviet" prosecutor’s office, which showed itself in all its glory when trying to rehabilitate the hero of the article in the 81st, it seems, year. They, without further ado, soldered him cooperation with the Nazis. That is, the evil NKVD in the 45th, there, on the spot, having the opportunity to collect material of any severity, did not find such cooperation, and our wise men from the 80s were vigilant. One word - cops.

    Why am I doing all this?
    The example of Timofeev-Resovsky suggests that in connection with the repressions of the 30s, our science received a very strong impetus, which determined its one-sided development. That is, if you are not doing something that can now and then be used in a tank, plane, ship or, at worst, in the field - you, in view of your obvious uselessness, are in a real risk zone and your fate is at tip of the pen of another scammer. In other words, the repressions hindered a catastrophic lag in electronics, cybernetics, genetics and other sciences, the foundations of which were prepared precisely in these years.
    And the second, but far from the last, consequence of repressions is clannishness. Today you were covered from the “collision”, which means you should already, and that means that in a few years you will help to push to the position of “your own” little man, who can neither snout or snarl in this matter, but “his own”. This is how the absolute professional incompetence of those in power is born, which, ultimately, buried the Soviet project and gave birth to the generation, according to the apt remark of Yu. Polyakov, of the “migratory elite”.
    I think so.
  • Operator
    Operator April 1 2020 13: 32 New
    -2
    This is what happens if you inflate a bison out of a fly by the efforts of popularizers from literature (Granin and Co.).

    What are the scientific merits of Resovsky [at the birth of Ryasovsky], except in the blunt study of the effect of various types of radiation on the human body (more dose - more effect)?

    Pre-war "genetic" experiments (before the discovery of the genes themselves in the form of DNA / RNA), purely specifically Old Testament-selective, should not be offered.

    Substitution of concepts is our everything.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey April 1 2020 13: 40 New
      +3
      Quote: Operator
      Prewar "genetic" experiments (before the discovery of the genes themselves in the form of DNA / RNA)

      Also rezanul ...
      1. Fat
        Fat April 2 2020 08: 30 New
        0
        Quote: mat-vey
        Quote: Operator
        Prewar "genetic" experiments (before the discovery of the genes themselves in the form of DNA / RNA)

        Also rezanul ...

        It's funny Genetics and cybernetics as a direction of science were outlined in the 19th century. And to you, in the 21st century this look cuts. Cognitive dissonance is easily overcome by taking an interest in the history of a scientific field.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey April 2 2020 08: 33 New
          -2
          Quote: Thick
          Quote: mat-vey
          Quote: Operator
          Prewar "genetic" experiments (before the discovery of the genes themselves in the form of DNA / RNA)

          Also rezanul ...

          It's funny Genetics and cybernetics as a direction of science were outlined in the 19th century. And to you, in the 21st century this look cuts. Cognitive dissonance is easily overcome by taking an interest in the history of a scientific field.

          Quote: Thick
          It's funny Genetics and cybernetics as a direction of science were outlined in the 19th century.

          And cosmonautics is still in ancient China ..
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 April 1 2020 16: 53 New
      -1
      The work on the distribution of radioactive isotopes in various media has an undeniable scientific and practical component.
      1. Operator
        Operator April 1 2020 17: 11 New
        -3
        The distribution of isotopes in different media in the first place is never genetics, and in the second it is a purely applied science, which thousands of scientists in dozens of institutions routinely engage in.

        Then why all this hype around Ryasovsky?

        PS Only Ryasovsky’s heroization can be compared only to Landau’s anti-Soviet, who became famous only for a university textbook in physics and the Nobel Prize received from the thieves from the filing of his fellow countryman, Bohr (for heating anti-Soviet sentiments in a well-known environment).
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 April 1 2020 17: 23 New
          0
          Are engaged. It has applied value, which is also not bad.
          And if you continue to do this - it makes sense.

          Timofeev-Resovsky is not ready to talk about genetic research, but familiar geneticists responded quite respectfully.
          1. Operator
            Operator April 1 2020 17: 26 New
            0
            To geneticists (specialists in the study of the genetic code of DNA / RNA) now everyone is lazy - chemists, biologists, doctors, etc.

            For reference - DNA as a carrier of the genetic code was discovered in 1953, when Ryasovsky was not up to genetics.
            1. Fat
              Fat April 2 2020 08: 37 New
              0
              Quote: Operator
              To geneticists (specialists in the study of the genetic code of DNA / RNA) now everyone is lazy - chemists, biologists, doctors, etc.

              For reference - DNA as a carrier of the genetic code was discovered in 1953, when Ryasovsky was not up to genetics.

              For your information:
              The beginning of modern genetics was laid in the works of the Augustinian monk Gregor Mendel in the middle of the 19th century. The first word “genetics” was used by the Hungarian nobleman Imre Festerik, who described several rules of genetic inheritance in his work “The genetic law of nature” (German Die genetische Gesätze der Natur, 1819).
              1. Operator
                Operator April 2 2020 08: 41 New
                0
                "Genetics" until 1953 and genetics after the discovery of a material carrier of genes called DNA - these are two big differences (approximately like alchemy and chemistry).

                Today, "geneticists" such as Vavilov and Ryasovsky are called breeders.
                1. Fat
                  Fat April 2 2020 09: 27 New
                  0
                  Yes, yes precisely because from the filing of a breeder such as Lysenko in 1948, genetics was declared pseudoscience in the USSR and remained so until 1964, despite the fact that material carriers of hereditary information were already open. They discovered DNA because they were looking for ... It has been known about chromosomes since the 19th century.
                  The first descriptions of chromosomes appeared in articles and books of different authors in the 70s of the XIX century, and the priority of opening chromosomes is given to different people, namely: I. D. Chistyakov (1873), A. Schneider (1873), E. Strasburger (1875 ), O. Buchley (1876) and others [4]. Most often, the year 1882 is called the year of discovery of chromosomes, and their discoverer is the German anatomist V. Fleming, who in his fundamental book “Zellsubstanz, Kern und Zelltheilung” collected and ordered information about the chromosomes, supplementing the results of his own research. The term "chromosome" was proposed by the German histologist G. Valdeyer in 1888. "Chromosome" literally means "colored body", since the basic dyes are well linked by chromosomes.
                  After the rediscovery of Mendel’s laws in 1900, it took only one or two years to make it clear that chromosomes under meiosis and fertilization behave exactly as expected from “particles of heredity”. In 1902, T. Boveri and in 1902-1903, W. Setton (Walter Sutton) independently hypothesized the genetic role of chromosomes.
                  Experimental confirmation of these ideas was carried out in the first quarter of the 1915th century by American scientists T. Morgan, K. Bridges, A. Sturtevant and G. Möller. The object of their genetic studies was the fruit fly D.melanogaster. Based on the data obtained on Drosophila, they formulated the “chromosome theory of heredity”, according to which the transmission of hereditary information is associated with chromosomes in which genes are linearly located in a certain sequence. The main provisions of the chromosome theory of heredity were published in XNUMX in the book "The mechanism of mendelian heredity"
                  In 1933, for the discovery of the role of chromosomes in heredity, T. Morgan received the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine.
                  1. Operator
                    Operator April 2 2020 09: 32 New
                    0
                    It is necessary to distinguish between the hypotheses about the material carriers of inherited traits and the fact of the discovery in 1953 of a real carrier in the form of DNA (which was learned to decode and, moreover, modify only in the 21st century).

                    Where is Ryasovsky and where is the DNA?
                    1. Fat
                      Fat April 2 2020 10: 10 New
                      0
                      And where is genetics in the USSR until 1964? Research in the field of carriers of heredity since 1948 has been supported by the state little, and that is mainly on military projects.
                      Quote: Operator
                      Where is Ryasovsky and where is the DNA?

                      So why did Timofeev-Resovsky get the Kimber Prize in Genetics (award from the US National Academy of Sciences for outstanding services in the field of genetics.) In 1966?
                      The main areas of Resovsky's research: radiation genetics, population genetics, problems of microevolution.
                      1. Operator
                        Operator April 2 2020 10: 31 New
                        -1
                        Now we have 2020 and these disciplines are called radiation medicine / biology.

                        Ryasovsky was given the Kimber Prize for anti-Sovietism, as well as the Nobel Landau and Pasternak (whose entire foreign circulation of the graphomanian work was printed with funding from the US CIA).
                      2. Fat
                        Fat April 2 2020 11: 10 New
                        0
                        Ohh ... Around the hirelings of the Capitalists. now I will know that Cherenkov, Tamm, Frank, Basov, Prokhorov and Kapitsa are probably CIA agents bully laughing
                      3. Operator
                        Operator April 2 2020 11: 17 New
                        0
                        Well, the hell did you have to equalize the world famous Nobel laureates - the Soviet physicists Cherenkov, Tamm, Frank, Basov and Prokhorov with the Nazi radiation biologist Ryasovsky, who was given to the USSR as a trophy?
  • Pushkar
    Pushkar April 1 2020 15: 30 New
    +3
    I will not argue about the foundation of the repressions of the Soviet regime, it is quite possible that Resovsky was really scared and did not return to the USSR. But by that time it was clear to the whole world what the Third Reich was. Resovsky could leave for neutral Switzerland, in the USA, but no - he remained to lead the institute in Germany. What was he doing there? And here is a quote: "Here is what G.A. wrote Sereda, Doctor of Chemistry, who headed the Institute in Obninsk in 1970 about Resovsky: “N. Timofeev-Resovsky headed the Department of Genetics at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute. Since 1942, experiments on people have been carried out in the laboratory led by Timofeev-Resovskiy - they injected the radioactive drug thorium-X into the blood. "http://eot74.su/?p=2195 One of the" partners "of the Bison was Josef Mengele, who supplied the" material "- people for the experiments. Read the article, link above. Why was it used after imprisonment? Well, this is life. The results of experiments on people in concentration camps are still used, say, in aviation medicine, but to make of this unsociable person the failed genius of Russian science, ruined by the evil Soviets ...
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo April 1 2020 18: 07 New
    +2
    Quote: Pushkar
    Resovsky could leave for neutral Switzerland, in the USA, but no - he remained to lead the institute in Germany.

    This is a really good question. Especially at the end of the war - what did he expect from the Soviet government to give up? After all, I understood, probably, that the article hangs on it as a “defector,” as well as cooperation with the Nazis. Hoping to knock off for the provided research materials and people? Believed that "merit" will outweigh old sins? Or just tired of wandering, and after the death of his son lost interest in life? We will never receive answers to these questions, unfortunately.
    As for experiments on people, the only more or less sane, personally for me, of course, source would be the protocols of interrogations of Resovsky in the NKVD. He was taken from the 45th, convicted and sent to wind the term in 46th. Almost a year they turned this way and that and would surely shake out the whole truth from him regarding such experiments, for they took not only him, I am sure there were a lot of indirect sources and witnesses. So, with all due respect to academics and professors, they cannot be a reliable source of information. Only the protocols of the NKVD, all the more, as it is perfectly shown in an article on military education devoted to the topic of "scarab", did our intelligentsia simply reach cosmic heights in the art of denigrating their colleagues through denunciations.
    As for the Prosecutor's Office, the conclusion does not say anything about the "anti-human experiments," but simply states, "... improving the military power of Nazi Germany ...". Very vague.
    1. Pushkar
      Pushkar April 1 2020 19: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: WayKhe Thuo
      This is a really good question.
      Read the article at http://eot74.su/?p=2195, there are all the answers. Resovskiy’s case can still be kept secret due to the results of "experiments", for example, a pilot recently died in the Black Sea, doctors commented that he could not live in such cold water without a special suit for longer than 30-40 minutes. There are endurance tables for people staying in cold water and staying at high altitudes without high-altitude equipment. The “experiments” on the development of these tables for the Luftwaffe are described with photos in the documentary “SS in Action”, published sometime in the early 60s. In addition, in Reich, since 1943, all studies that were not aimed at “achieving victory and not giving results in more than four years have been banned”. Together with Resovsky in 1992, Kolchak and other evil spirits were rehabilitated, there was an attempt to rehabilitate Vlasov.
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 April 1 2020 18: 42 New
    +2
    Betrayal ... always betrayal ... the rest is lyrics like time circumstances ... I was immediately shot and stuff
    And in science, of course, one of the geniuses of his time ...
    1. Pushkar
      Pushkar April 1 2020 19: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: silberwolf88
      And in science, of course, one of the geniuses of his time ...
      And why is it ingenious to work out the radiochemical castration of "Untermanshev"?
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo April 1 2020 20: 09 New
    0
    Quote: Pushkar
    Read the article at http://eot74.su/?p=2195, there are all the answers.

    I read the article - otherwise I would not write a review. The article has more questions than answers. Moreover, it is written by whom? Simplex? Does this tell you something? Personally, I don’t.
    In principle, I think the question is closed, because I was not interested in how much his fate was, but on his turning points, and one of these points was the purges of the 30s, which launched a chain of events.
    1. Pushkar
      Pushkar April 2 2020 17: 41 New
      0
      Quote: WayKhe Thuo
      one of these points was the purges of the 30s, which launched a chain of events.

      If the current government offends you, will you also be engaged in vivisection? I read about Resovsky back in 1988, then in the tenths on the Internet, now all this has been cleaned up, the perestroika Granin was declared a genius of literature. In short, all these are liberal spells in line with anti-Sovietism.
  • Oleg Alekseevich
    Oleg Alekseevich April 3 2020 19: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Pushkar
    Quote: WayKhe Thuo
    one of these points was the purges of the 30s, which launched a chain of events.

    If the current government offends you, will you also be engaged in vivisection? I read about Resovsky back in 1988, then in the tenth 4
    e on the Internet, now all this is cleaned up, the perestroika Granin is declared a literary genius. In short, all these are liberal spells in line with anti-Sovietism.


    Traitors and their apologists are always looking for excuses for some of their "highest" goals, supposedly
    unintelligible to ordinary people.

    Resin-Bison clearly did not serve people but science, not realizing that he was a Nazi. Those who praise him, including Granin, do not understand this either.
  • Li17
    Li17 7 May 2020 18: 18 New
    0
    Quote: Jurkovs
    Before, he knew very little about this man, but from the responses to Granin’s book, he treated him well. Just radically changed his mind. A very muddy type, the very fact of working in Nazi Germany is disgusting. I do not accept the excuses that scientists are engaged in pure science.

    Curiously, this is just from the series if you are not a member of the CPSU, then it means mediocrity? And the fact that Luftwaffe pilots studied in the USSR? And a bunch of military Wehrmacht also had a relationship in this topic. And the muddy patriots who had a crystalline attitude to power and destroyed culture, the military system, the peasantry, carried out purges that passed sentences without any legal ones ... But the scientist means muddy, who simply refused to go straight and honest! And there they were waiting for him, well, not at all muddy guys ... who, without any liberals there ... No, then they would have rehabilitated as quickly as my grandfather! Well it happens there, they were mistaken and shot without anyone there!
    You forgot that, unlike all the obscene ones in the USSR, he REALLY benefited not only the whole of humanity but also his homeland, was to the end a great and honest man who was simply deceived and condemned. He could have left and sent .... like our "true" patriots of the Gorbachev system!