The unpopular Winter War became the forerunner of the Great Victory

This week marks 80 years since the end of the Soviet-Finnish War of 1939-1940, which has come to be known as the Winter War. The peace treaty following its results was signed on March 12, 1940.
The unpopular Winter War became the forerunner of the Great Victory




The story from the distant Civil


This war is unpopular among Russian politicians and historians, and among the people. The reason for this is two important factors: the heavy losses suffered by the Red Army in battles with the Finns, and the capture of foreign territory. The second factor was a particular irritant because it conflicted with the official interpretation of the wars, divided by Soviet ideologists into “just” and “unjust”, which were synonymous with liberation and predatory wars.

Because of the Soviet-Finnish war of 1939-1940, it was customary to speak in passing (almost a tongue twister) so as not to touch upon issues that were painful for ideology. Such a silence came sideways when, in post-Soviet times, tolerant historians emphasized the annexation of Finnish territories, without delving deeply into the nature of the conflict.

Meanwhile, its roots must be sought in the hot times of the Civil War, when Finnish nationalists, encouraged by the granted independence, dreamed about "Great Finland" and rushed to the Russian North. Stories Two Soviet-Finnish wars of that period are known (1918–1920 and 1921–1922). Both of them took place on Russian territory.

There was a time when the white finns (remember those?) Controlled up to five volosts of the Arkhangelsk province. They created an unrecognized North Karelian state on these lands, which ended its existence under the terms of the Tartu Peace Treaty between the RSFSR and Finland of October 14, 1920.

Soviet-Finnish wars of the twenties, domestic historians regarded as a fight against foreign intervention. After the passage of time, from which side do not come to these conflicts, it is difficult to choose another assessment.


As the Finnish authorities recorded the USSR as their enemy


These wars left a heavy imprint on the relations between the two countries. Finnish newspapers have long practiced hatred of Soviet Russia, set the people to reject not only the country and the system, but also ordinary Soviet people. The authorities also did not have a special love for neighbors.

A case is known when Finnish President Svinhuvud, during his visit to Berlin in 1937, told the Germans that "the enemy of Russia should always be a friend of Finland." Meanwhile, at that time, relations between our countries were built on the Non-Aggression and Peaceful Settlement of Conflicts between Finland and the Soviet Union, signed in the winter of 1932.

Despite this interstate agreement, Swinhuvud has already conceived the Soviet Union as an enemy of Finland. Against such an emotional background, in 1938, negotiations began between the two countries on territorial exchange. Moscow, in anticipation of a major war, asked to move the Finnish border 90 kilometers from Leningrad and lease the USSR four islands in the Gulf of Finland. As compensation, Finland was offered a territory in East Karelia with an area of ​​more than five thousand square kilometers, twice the size of the land requested from the Finns by the Soviet Union.


The Soviet Union learned from the failures of the Winter War


As they say, word for word - came to hand. Negotiations on the exchange of territories only led to increased tension in relations between the two countries. It all ended in a hot war, indicating that the theme of the territories adjacent to Leningrad was extremely important for the Soviet Union.

The formal reason for the war was the so-called Maynil incident. On November 26, 1939, near the village of Mainil near the Finnish border, our post was fired by artillery. The USSR sent Finland a note of protest. The Finns rejected her without pleading guilty.

Countries began to prepare for war. It began just four days later. The Red Army attacked the Finns on the Karelian Isthmus. Military aviation carried out the bombing of Helsinki, but did so extremely unsuccessfully. Due to pilot error, bombs fell on the residential sector. Western media are filled with illustrations of the destruction of peaceful Finnish houses. The USSR was recognized as the aggressor and expelled from the League of Nations.

The Red Army faced big problems. Military historians believe that Soviet strategists underestimated the enemy and the conditions of the war. Stalin called it harsher. The fact is that the Winter War was preceded by a victory on Khalkhin Gol, the annexation of the western territories of Belarus and Ukraine occupied by Poland. These successful events for the Red Army took place literally within six months before the war with Finland. They formed in the command staff, according to Stalin, the psychology "throw caps."

The war had to be fought in wooded and marshy areas and low temperatures (frosts reached -40 degrees). Failures of equipment, frostbite of personnel followed. They leveled the fire and numerical advantage of the Red Army.

Unusual was the resistance of the Finns. It was largely partisan in nature, snipers were used, Tanks burned with Molotov cocktails, later called the Molotov cocktail.

Faced with this, the Red Army suffered heavy losses. “The most tragic episode of the first stage of the fighting,” says military historian Dmitry Khazanov, “was the defeat of the 44th Infantry Division in the battle on Raat Road. By January 8, 1940, almost the entire compound was killed or captured, and only a small part of the military managed to get out of the encirclement, abandoning all equipment and convoys (the Finns got 37 tanks, 20 armored vehicles, 350 machine guns, 97 guns, 160 cars, all radio stations) ".

The command of the compound, led by brigade commander Alexei Vinogradov, was sent to the tribunal and then shot. By February, the order at the front was brought in and began to crowd out the Finns. By mid-March, the Red Army occupied more than 11 percent of Finland. After which peace was concluded on the terms of the Soviet Union.

The Soviet government and the command of the Red Army took into account the lessons of the Winter War. Defense Minister Marshal Kliment Voroshilov, Hero of the Civil War, was dismissed. Stalin no longer trusted him with such large-scale operations.

The 1st rank commander Semyon Tymoshenko was appointed Minister of Defense. It was under his leadership that the troops of the Northwestern Front stormed the "Mannerheim Lines" and put an end to the Soviet-Finnish War.

Under Minister Tymoshenko, combat training plans and the tactics of armored forces were revised. We took into account many other things. For example, in aviation they worked out the start of engines at low temperatures. This was very useful in the battles near Moscow in 1941, when Soviet pilots flew to combat missions in severe frosts, but the Germans did not. Made adjustments to the design of weapons and equipment. They began to use units of skiers. He came to the troops "Molotov cocktail."

The hard lessons of the Winter War, which claimed the lives of 120 thousand Red Army soldiers, became, in the opinion of military historians, the forerunner of our Great Victory over Nazi Germany.
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  1. prosto_rgb 13 March 2020 18: 25 New
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    The unpopular Winter War became the forerunner of the Great Victory

    As I understand it, it is for this reason that the archives of the Finnish company are still classified.
    1. Amateur 13 March 2020 18: 43 New
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      the archives of the Finnish company are still classified.

      There is a book by A. Gaidar "The Commandant of the Snow Fortress" - Continuation of "Timur and his team" about the Finnish war.
      The skier raises his head and sees upstairs in the branches of an artillery observer. He has a sharp face, an aquiline nose, binoculars on his neck, and a telephone receiver in his hand.
      - Raven bird! Captain Maximov on your battery? - the skier asks.
      The observer sharply, like a wing, waved his hand, showing the direction, and brought the binoculars to his eyes.
      Inside the dilapidated Finnish bunker, two Red Army men and Kolya, the driver, are drinking tea on a plank table near an iron stove.
      (In September 1940, Gaidar began writing the continuation of "Timur ..." - the film novel "The Commandant of the Snow Fortress",
      1. Avior 13 March 2020 20: 53 New
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        . There is a book by A. Gaidar "The Commandant of the Snow Fortress"

        I read it back in school
        Only it is not about the Finnish war, but about the children in Leningrad. Indeed, this is a screenplay, it was seen from the text
    2. knn54 13 March 2020 18: 51 New
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      I repeat, More than half a century ago I read the book "The Experience of the War with Finland". She was with the signature stamp of the chipboard, from the military library. The photos are shocking. They really hoped to throw their hats.
      The most annoying thing was that the company could have ended earlier. After the repressions against the LVO Remedial Administration, UNIQUE documentation on the Mannerheim Line was found almost six months later. The repressed department head collected documents right from the start of construction.
      It would be nice to learn from the mistakes of others in the future.
      1. Snail N9 13 March 2020 19: 01 New
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        Go to REIBERT.info via VPN, the page dedicated to the "Soviet-Finnish war" - there are a lot of interesting things, and indeed the site is very interesting, I would even say that it is "very, very" interesting to all lovers of military history and especially to lovers military and historical archeology. yes
        1. tihonmarine 13 March 2020 19: 47 New
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          Quote: Snail N9
          Access REIBERT.info via VPN

          Is this a Ukrainian site?
          1. Avior 13 March 2020 21: 00 New
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            Yes, Ukrainian, but it is rather international in essence.
            A fairly well-known site to reconstruct and archaeologists, but there are many purely historical topics.
            It differs from others in a rather large amount of information both about ours and about opponents, primarily Germans, of course, but there are others
            1. tihonmarine 13 March 2020 21: 37 New
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              Quote: Avior
              Yes, Ukrainian, but it is rather international in essence.

              He looked and immediately found one NIK "Right Sector", good luck.
              1. Avior 13 March 2020 22: 12 New
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                Yes, I understand, if you looked further, you would have found even more that you did not like
                Starting with the fact that Reinbert is a friend in German, and the titles they have on the forum.
                Internationality has its drawbacks, and the site itself existed long before all sorts of Right sectors came into being, and then a variety of views were already presented, and they somehow got along.
                It is clear that not everyone is pleased to see this.
                This site is primarily reconstructors and military archaeologists with their specific problems of military archeology, began in 2001 as a specialized site for archeology and the history of the Germans in the Second World War
                Incidentally, I was mistaken - the Russian site
                https://reibert.info/threads/den-rozhdenija-rajberta.34152/

                But if you are interested in information on specific issues of history and archeology, then it is much easier to find there than in other sources.
                1. Avior 13 March 2020 22: 36 New
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                  I read it more carefully, and did not understand, frankly, the site is Ukrainian or Russian.
                  But the information there really can be found unusual
                2. tihonmarine 13 March 2020 22: 51 New
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                  Quote: Avior
                  Incidentally, I was mistaken - the Russian site

                  Maybe so, only in the "auction, all prices are in your hryvnia.
                  1. Avior 13 March 2020 22: 57 New
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                    Yes, at first I wrote to you like that too, and then got confused. He does not have any pronounced Ukrainian orientation
                    I didn’t pay attention to the auction, the auction doesn’t interest me very much, I just watched how it roamed the hosts back and forth
                    As I understand it, it's just the property of a particular person, one of the oldest sites on the subject of military archeology
                    1. tihonmarine 14 March 2020 09: 37 New
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                      Quote: Avior
                      Yes, at first I wrote to you like that too, and then got confused.

                      Well, in principle, if you buy a German helmet, or ammunition, then of course there are no problems. But here the statements and comments do not always correspond to the truth, but I do not argue much sensible. But I don’t like visiting Ukrainian sites, even the WWII plan, and I’m just sick of others.
        2. prosto_rgb 13 March 2020 21: 47 New
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          Quote: Snail N9
          Go to REIBERT.info via VPN, there’s a lot of interesting information on the page dedicated to the “Soviet-Finnish war”,

          Thank you!
          Really very interesting
      2. Igoresha 13 March 2020 19: 28 New
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        repressed head of department
        yes, from the NKVD there was more harm in all sectors of the national economy so that the Stalinists would not yell
        1. Serwid 13 March 2020 19: 39 New
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          Quote: Igoresha
          yes, from the NKVD there was more harm in all sectors of the national economy so that the Stalinists would not yell

          But what about border guards or firefighters. Did they do much harm?
          1. Igoresha 13 March 2020 19: 44 New
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            it is necessary to increase the intensity of the exposure of Stalinism, but you, on the contrary
            1. Serwid 13 March 2020 19: 49 New
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              Quote: Igoresha
              it is necessary to increase the intensity of the exposure of Stalinism, but you, on the contrary

              So before that was sarcasm? If yes, then I apologize, did not understand.
              1. nikvic46 14 March 2020 06: 30 New
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                Yesterday. "Exposing Stalinism" comes to insanity. Somehow, your friend, speaking about the Finnish war, said the following: "Peaceful Finns secular planes bombed on the beaches ..." What beaches? Clean your head.
            2. svp67 13 March 2020 21: 18 New
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              Quote: Igoresha
              it is necessary to increase the intensity of the exposure of Stalinism, but you, on the contrary

              And how is your position different now from the position of those whom you are trying to brand? Yes, nothing. You can’t fight a dragon and become a dragon yourself ...
            3. meandr51 13 March 2020 21: 51 New
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              That does not work?
            4. PavelM 13 March 2020 23: 37 New
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              it is necessary to increase the intensity of the exposure of Stalinism, but you, on the contrary

              I’m embarrassed to ask, WHOM is this necessary? Once again - to whom?
              1. tihonmarine 14 March 2020 09: 39 New
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                Quote: PavelM
                I’m embarrassed to ask, WHOM is this necessary? Once again - to whom?

                Democrats, liberals, Russophobes, anti-communists and all fascists.
          2. Caretaker 13 March 2020 20: 47 New
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            Quote: Serwid
            But what about border guards or firefighters.

            Add crews of air defense armored trains and the protection of strategic objects.
          3. Sergey Valov 13 March 2020 20: 51 New
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            You still remember the police.
            1. Caretaker 13 March 2020 21: 08 New
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              Quote: Sergey Valov
              You still remember the police.

              Recall SMERSH during the Great Patriotic War.
              Add guerrilla (sabotage and reconnaissance) groups and units.
              1. swan49 14 March 2020 01: 31 New
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                Speaking specifically about SMERSH, then this is the structure of the People’s Commissariat of Defense, reporting directly to the USSR people's drug of defense I.V. To Stalin.
                1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 09: 56 New
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                  Quote: swan49
                  Speaking specifically about SMERSH, then this is the structure of the People’s Commissariat of Defense, reporting directly to the USSR people's drug of defense I.V. To Stalin.

                  Didn’t go far, information from Wiki
                  1 - General Directorate of Counterintelligence "Smersh" of the People's Commissariat of Defense of the USSR
                  2 - Counterintelligence Directorate "Smersh" of the People's Commissariat of the Navy of the USSR,
                  3 - Counterintelligence Division (OKR) "Smersh" of the NKVD of the USSR.
                  These three structures were independent counterintelligence units and were subordinate only to the leadership of these departments.
                  1. swan49 14 March 2020 12: 07 New
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                    Exactly. Supervised GUKR "SMERSH" NPO USSR And, V. Stalin. The rest of us are not particularly interested.
                    1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 13: 47 New
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                      You have evaded the topic. We discussed SMERSH as part of the NKVD.
                      1. swan49 14 March 2020 15: 27 New
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                        The fact of the matter is that the SMERSH Department of the NKVD of the USSR was engaged in counterintelligence and only inside the structures of the People's Commissariat (primarily the Rear Guard Troops) and had nothing to do with front-line work. For this, the People’s Commissariat had a special Sudoplatov Office. Recently, quite by accident I found out that the so-called “partisan divisions” were also in the headquarters of the fronts, but I have no information on them.
                      2. Caretaker 14 March 2020 15: 41 New
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                        Quote: swan49
                        The fact of the matter is that the SMERSH Department of the NKVD of the USSR was engaged in counterintelligence and only inside the structures of the People's Commissariat (primarily the rear guard troops)

                        I do not see a contradiction with my statement
                        Recall (the police), SMERSH during the Great Patriotic War.
                        Add guerrilla (sabotage and reconnaissance) groups and units.

                        I remind you that the dispute began because of the role of the NKVD in the pre-war and military periods.
                        By the way, they also trained snipers.
                      3. swan49 14 March 2020 18: 46 New
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                        Bowing to all participants in the war, I would like to advise all of us to sort out all the intelligence and counterintelligence bodies of the NKVD, the NKGB and NPOs. Otherwise, we start to bother them all in a heap. Indeed, until March 1941 there was one scheme for their organization, from March to July 41st - another, from July 41st to April 1943 - the third, and from April 43rd - the fourth. And everywhere its functions, subordination and people.
              2. swan49 14 March 2020 12: 24 New
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                According to the history of SMERSH (how it was formed, by whom it was equipped, etc.) I recommend finding on the Internet the work of retired FSB Lieutenant General, Doctor of History, Professor A. A. Zdanovich.
      3. tihonmarine 13 March 2020 21: 39 New
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        Quote: Serwid
        But what about border guards or firefighters

        And then what did the NKVD do when the war broke out? SMERSH appeared in 1943.
        1. Caretaker 13 March 2020 22: 01 New
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          Quote: tihonmarine
          And then what did the NKVD do when the war broke out?

          They fought, won and perished.
          The 132nd detached battalion of escort troops of the NKVD of the USSR is a military unit composed of the troops of the NKVD of the USSR, formed between the Polish campaign and the Great Patriotic War, involved in guarding prisons and escorting prisoners in the Brest region. In 1941, battalion units participated in the defense of the Brest Fortress ....
          ... It was formed in the period from November 14 to 26, 1939. In April 1940, he was relocated to the Brest Fortress, where he was located in the part of the ring barracks of the Citadel between the section of the 84th Infantry Regiment and the Terespol Gate ...
          ... The 1st rifle company platoon guarded the General Prison of the NKVD of the BSSR No. 24 in Kobrin, the General Prison of the NKVD of the BSSR No. 29 in Pinsk and the General Prison of the NKVD of the BSSR No. 25 in Pruzhany. The 2nd rifle company guarded the General Prison of the NKVD of the BSSR No. 23 in Brest and the Internal Prison of the NKVD of the Brest Region (“Brigid”) on the territory of the Kobrin fortification of the Brest Fortress. The 3rd rifle company was used to escort prisoners and Polish prisoners of war ...
          ... July 10, 1941, the 132nd separate battalion of the NKVD KV was excluded from the lists of the army as "completely killed in battle."
          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/132-%D0%B9_%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BE%D0%BD_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA_%D0%9D%D0%9A%D0%92%D0%94
    3. tihonmarine 13 March 2020 19: 49 New
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      Quote: Igoresha
      from the NKVD there was more harm in all sectors of the national economy so that the Stalinists would not yell
      Well, even according to Hitler, Stalin managed to clean out the "5th column."
      1. Igoresha 13 March 2020 21: 54 New
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        according to Hitler
        it’s he’s on his nerves, he said when he was blown up in 44, on the Internet, a million collaborators counted, truly the Soviets didn’t read Carnegie’s book “How to Make Friends ..”
        1. nov_tech.vrn 13 March 2020 22: 44 New
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          The Carnegie Endowment is a powerful structured international corporation, from Carnegie there is a name, a brand. Carnegie himself ended his life as a lonely unhappy person, but his name lives on and books are reprinted with might and main. By the beginning of the 40s in the Soviet Union there were many internal enemies, a significant number of people who had lost the privileges that they had before the revolution of 17 years, people who fell under the collectivization rink and industrialization, in addition there were millions of people in the White Guard emigration,
  2. Kronos 13 March 2020 20: 17 New
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    There were objective problems - the lack of interaction between different branches of the armed forces, the training of the personnel was not the best, there was no experience of war with a strong enemy. After that, conclusions were drawn that formed the basis of reforms of 39-40 years
  3. EvilLion 16 March 2020 08: 29 New
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    Judging by the fact that they had to shoot further after the war, when it turned out that the division commanders were unable to command, they did not repress enough. And it’s scary to imagine what would be under the control of all Tukhachevsky and Yakirs. Or Blucher from whose art in Moscow just stunned
  • rruvim 13 March 2020 22: 19 New
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    Of course. For example, about the "Battle on the Raat Road" in general, only crumbs. Mostly from Finnish sources. Archive on Frunzenskaya does not issue documents.
  • iouris 14 March 2020 00: 20 New
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    Quote: prosto_rgb
    Finnish company archives are still classified

    Have you checked it? And which war is "popular"?
    Link: "Popularity (from Lat. Populares, from populus - people) is a high degree of demand for someone or something in a certain area. In some cases, the emergence of popularity is influenced by fashion, and vice versa."
  • maidan.izrailovich 14 March 2020 05: 03 New
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    This war is unpopular among Russian politicians and historians, and among the people ......, and capture of foreign territory.

    The article initially begins with a misinterpretation of history. A false liberal version is presented to the reader.
    As a result of the war, the territory of the Karelian Isthmus and several sections along the border became part of the USSR. The border was pushed down to the city of Vyborg (including it in the Union).
    The city of Vyborg and its adjacent territory were not annexed, but returned. Since the city of Vyborg was founded by Novgorod merchants.
    1. Basil50 14 March 2020 07: 11 New
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      You’re right, the author licked the liberals so nicely, and he didn’t feel sick
      The author apparently does not know that the Principality of Finland was framed by the tsars of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE and they also cut two-thirds of the territories. It’s not customary to recall how the Finns destroyed the RUSSIANS today.
      The author did not mention that Finland started the war four times against the SOVIET UNION before the declaration of war.
      And this is not counting the constant armed provocations.
      Since the spring of 1940, the Finns mobilized and managed to put under arms more than 500000 (five hundred thousand) fighters (including women). But only two hundred thousand were demobilized. Where did the rest go?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Caretaker 14 March 2020 10: 16 New
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        Quote: Vasily50
        The author did not mention that Finland started the war four times against the SOVIET UNION before the declaration of war.

        It is true that in 1920, some deputies of the Finnish parliament warned that they had bitten off too fat a piece, saying that the Russians would be asked to return with compensation for moral and material damage.
        ... and the capture of foreign territory.

        The author mixed up who was captured from whom. For, in vain the Finns inno fort "Ino" and Pechenga were squeezed in 1920. in Russia.
  • EvilLion 16 March 2020 08: 26 New
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    What is there to keep secret? The course of the war? Losses? Reasons lying on the surface?
  • tihonmarine 13 March 2020 18: 25 New
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    The Soviet government and the command of the Red Army took into account the lessons of the Winter War.
    My father, a participant in the Soviet-Finnish war, once told me: “Son, if it weren’t for the Finnish war, which taught me how to fight, I wouldn’t get out of Brest alive,”
    1. Thunderbolt 13 March 2020 18: 42 New
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      I agree with you. Experience of front-line operations and tactical experience, multiplied by the combat training of each soldier and officer individually. soldier
    2. Was mammoth 13 March 2020 22: 15 New
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      Quote: tihonmarine
      My father,... .

      Father once said that the replenishment suffered the greatest losses in the first battle. He fought from the Brest summer camps.
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      My grandfather was sent to Finnish in Budenovka ....

      From my father. Budenovka and winter did not warm.
      1. tihonmarine 13 March 2020 22: 53 New
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        Quote: Was Mammoth
        Father once said that the replenishment suffered the greatest losses in the first battle. He fought from the Brest summer camps.

        Your father was in summer camps, and mine had to break out of the city itself.
        1. Was mammoth 13 March 2020 22: 58 New
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          Quote: tihonmarine
          Your father was in summer camps, and mine had to break out of the city itself.

          Got them. But, they won!
          The Germans bombed the summer camps at first and leveled with artillery. Desert done. Few remained. Most of the pants did not have time to put on.
          1. tihonmarine 14 March 2020 09: 50 New
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            Quote: Was Mammoth
            The Germans bombed the summer camps at first and leveled with artillery.

            The heavy howitzer division of my father, the SS men, without reaching Kobrin on the march, were destroyed, but the latter fought back, the commander and commissar shot themselves. Only 6 people went to Kobrin.
            1. Was mammoth 14 March 2020 10: 48 New
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              There is a bright article in memory of our parents today.
              "Thank you for being born!" I. Matveeva.
              His father was wounded in 1941 and his brothers died in the first year. The thought came to mind - how many relatives would I still have if not for the war. And, father fought before the Victory. Smolensk, Stalingrad, Balaton ....
  • Operator 13 March 2020 18: 27 New
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    What kind of ministers were in the USSR in the 1930s? laughing
  • Strashila 13 March 2020 18: 31 New
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    You read here the Finns, here are the Finns ... and the Soviet are all bad. According to the recollections of the grandfather who fought in the Siberian battalion, they beat the Finns, including on their territory during raids, but it was not easy, but this war taught a lot.
    1. Serwid 13 March 2020 19: 42 New
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      Quote: Strashila
      You read here the Finns, here are the Finns ... and the Soviet are all bad.

      But for some reason, the war ended on Soviet terms. It even becomes incomprehensible.
    2. maidan.izrailovich 14 March 2020 05: 19 New
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      According to the recollections of the grandfather who fought in the Siberian battalion, they beat the Finns ...

      That's right. So it was.
      In school years, we had a 2-volume edition of "Fights in Finland" at home 1941 edition. With lots of black and white photos from that war. The book consisted of memoirs of participants in that war with the addition of historical chronicles. The hardest part of that war was the breakthrough of the Mannerheim Line. There were the biggest losses. But the Red Army managed. Moreover, in terrible climatic conditions. Is this not a confirmation of her strength and ability to fight? Of course.
      1. Tamer 16 March 2020 10: 10 New
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        I have this edition. Before the cycle "I fought ..." Drabkina A.V. these “memories” from “Fights in Finland” are very far away, the closest work to “Fights” is “The Commandant of the Snow Fortress” by A. Gaidar
        There are really a lot of photos, sorry for the low quality print.
  • Thunderbolt 13 March 2020 18: 37 New
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    My grandfather was sent to Finnish in Budenovka, and he finished it in comforter, earflaps and hard hat. The troops really learned to stand in the front page in severe frost. In deep snow. Warm and warmed up --- near Moscow we met the Wehrmacht as the Finns of us then. It’s good that the mistakes and shortcomings of our strategy and tactics did not go to defame the guilty, but to correct After the Finnish one, the grandfather ended up in a military school, so the “grandfathers” cried for him that earlier they looked at marching and firing training, everyone was fine, and Tymoshenko’s training was much harder. At night they lifted up and threw cadets on a march. Then it came in handy. The Finnish war formed approximately certainly the correct conclusions about the nature of the coming war with the Wehrmacht.
    1. Caretaker 13 March 2020 20: 55 New
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      Quote: Thunderbolt
      We met the Wehrmacht as the Finns of us then.

      On the Karelian Isthmus met better. Finnish fortification lines were broken, and KAUR held on throughout the war. Power plants, electric barriers, two-three-story bunkers.
      With a possible assault on KAUR, the Finns would have put the whole army there, and therefore did not begin to storm Leningrad. Only the suburbs fired at the blockade, to where they reached.
      1. Thunderbolt 14 March 2020 00: 27 New
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        According to the results of the victorious counter / gig-gi / he was thrown back from the actual artillery fire to defeat. E. Jet artillery beats with an oval covering forward, so Lopatov taught me. And the Red Army destroyed the enemy bunkers with the system-back. resistance of cleverly dug trenches. Under this haze were put forward / depending on the situation /// guns of caliber, or a combination of sappers with toloma + the whole set of the Red Army to suppress, dazzle the embrasures of the pillboxes .. Yes, they did so, but put forward straight heavy artillery split up Finnish bunkers by one or two. According to the Finnish infantry, direct fire aimed at the embrasures ---- the casemate swept away immediately, and the scattered and very stunned arrows of the trenches fled from the shelters into the forest, because. sensed that there would be another blow to the Stalinist artillery.
      2. maidan.izrailovich 14 March 2020 05: 39 New
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        Finnish fortification lines were broken ...

        According to the recollections of the participants of that war, these weapons were brought to direct fire. And they opened the concrete fortifications of the Finns.

        1. igordok 14 March 2020 10: 38 New
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          Sorry, but you have not successfully selected the second photo. If large-caliber artillery would fire on this bunker, direct fire, then the first thing would be destroyed Orillon. And in the above photograph, he is intact, and besides, he is not even dealt with soil. Most likely this is the unfinished bunker so-called The "Stalin Lines" that were exploded by the Germans sometime in 1943.
  • Sergey Olegovich 13 March 2020 18: 42 New
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    Do not forget that the future allies of the USSR in the war with Germany, England and France, instead of waging war with Germany, offered Finland assistance in the form of sending an expeditionary force to conduct military operations against the USSR, as well as planning the bombing of Baku. This episode clearly shows that the West in the person of England and France was not going to fight Germany, but wanted to destroy our country. All actions of future allies in the anti-Hitler coalition, until May 1940, were anti-Soviet in nature.
    1. tihonmarine 13 March 2020 19: 55 New
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      Quote: Sergey Olegovich
      future allies of the USSR in the war with Germany, England and France, instead of waging war with Germany, offered Finland assistance in the form of sending an expeditionary force to conduct military operations against the USSR

      They promised much, and help Czechoslovakia, and Poland. Only after such assistance did the British end up on the banks of the Pas de Calais, and the French in occupation.
  • Wildgoose 13 March 2020 18: 50 New
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    Dear Colleagues! I don’t want to insert my articles yet, until I deal with the documents on this issue, but please correct my translation of the Finnish Regiment 1939-1940 Railways in the Kandalaksha area. https://cont.ws/@wildgoose/592928 Also on my blog on Comte you can read docs on the 1941-1944 war. Together with Mikhail Grabovsky (here is his latest work https://lubimeg.blogspot.com/2020/01/19.html) we are preparing some of the materials on this war and I think that we can put them out. Also, my opinion is, "that the Finns rewrote this ZhBD, since the very first record says that Winter war has begun[u] [/ u] ", and to come up with a name on the first day of the war is unrealistic.
    My clarification on the weather - in those months there was only a couple of days -36 degrees (see the graph in the article), the data was taken from our stations, the Finnish weather data coincide completely, the only difference is that the Finns wrote at the time of writing the railway, and ours indicated the minimum, maximum and average temperatures during the day. The temperature chart put to 122 sd https://cont.ws/@wildgoose/1378750, the future paratrooper Margelov was a battalion commander in her 596 regiment. The bottom line is that for 100 km from Alakurtti to Juotsiyarvi we had 2 regiments advancing, and covering roads along this length is generally unrealistic, well, there aren’t so many people in the army. The Finns also had a full white fox in business, and to say that everything was bad with us was NOT right. It was the same in 1941, the valiant SS weren’t able to take our troops into the forehead, and only by circumventing the right and left made us retreat (battles at 14-16 km and Kairal).
    The Finns had the lowest temperature in January-February 1999 near Rovaniemi, -51 degrees was recorded, and in the Alakurti border detachment at 13 outposts that night was -56. This rarely happens, but the winter of 1998-1999 was the coldest in my memory.
    Thank you for attention.
    1. rruvim 13 March 2020 22: 22 New
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      Go ahead comrades !!! Curious to read. But I couldn’t get anything intelligible in the Central Archive of the Red Army ...
      1. maidan.izrailovich 14 March 2020 05: 46 New
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        But I couldn’t get anything intelligible in the Central Archive of the Red Army ...

        I recommend reading. hi
        1. Tamer 16 March 2020 10: 21 New
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          The publication resembles a set of articles from military newspapers and the Red Star. It’s better to look at the Archival Revolution on YouTube - there really are interesting analyzes of some moments of history.
  • Alexey RA 13 March 2020 19: 01 New
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    Under Minister Tymoshenko, combat training plans and tactics of the actions of armored forces were revised. We took into account many other things. For example, in aviation they worked out the start of engines at low temperatures. This was very useful in the battles near Moscow in 1941, when Soviet pilots flew to combat missions in severe frosts, but the Germans did not.

    Pff ... at a meeting on the results of the war in Finland, the leadership suddenly found out that before the war in the Red Army, leaving "in the field" at a temperature lower than the EMNIP, minus 10 degrees, was politically prohibited.
    From such combat training, little ones. smile
    1. Wildgoose 13 March 2020 19: 19 New
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      A veteran from Azerbaijan came to the Alakurtta border detachment in 1998, during a conversation with border guards, he explained that after -42 degrees in this area in 1942, an order was received from the authorities NOT to put Caucasians on guard duty (they are freezing). And local and Russian stood quietly on guard.
      The Finns do not currently look at their flanks at temperatures below -25, because there is no point, since the local Finnish population will immediately hand over the police for state money to someone who seems suspicious to them (+ they cut the local Finnish policemen and are now given to the Finnish border guards partially police functions). It is unrealistic for one person to survive (in some places ice-free swamps and snow up to 1,5 meters, and in the lowlands it is easy to 2 meters, a huge number of small streams), in any case, if a person wants to cross the border, it is better to buy a tourist visa and stay beyond the hill, for border guards when they catch the offender will kick him very painfully)))).
      1. rruvim 13 March 2020 22: 06 New
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        I was in Karelia, and they brought me to Finnish positions (pillboxes and bunkers). How to get there is another story. But I realized that it’s almost impossible to fight there, I mean from our side. Some feat was made by fighters.
  • Bagatur 13 March 2020 19: 26 New
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    And what happened to the Manerheim line if the finneys accepted Stalin’s terms?
    1. Sergey Olegovich 13 March 2020 20: 13 New
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      After the Soviet-Finnish war, the "Mannerheim Line" was destroyed.
      1. Caretaker 13 March 2020 21: 01 New
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        Quote: Sergey Olegovich
        After the Soviet-Finnish war, the "Mannerheim Line" was destroyed.

        Partially, in 1944. Finns defended for some time on these "lines of Mannerheim."
        1. rruvim 13 March 2020 22: 11 New
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          The Finns not only defended themselves there, but they were not surrendered until the end of the war, until the armistice and the treaty. I was there, now the Mannerheim Line in the Russian Federation, on the remaining concrete structures there are no traces of shells or bullets, everything is clean. All of ours were stopped before that.
          1. Caretaker 13 March 2020 22: 21 New
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            Quote: rruvim
            The Finns not only defended themselves there, but they were not surrendered until the end of the war, until the armistice and the treaty.

            If they sat in fortifications until the end of the war, then why did they capitulate?
            Perhaps you saw the fortifications that did not storm, but went around?
      2. Bagatur 13 March 2020 22: 02 New
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        Vipros bjl: Did the Manerheim line leave for Finland if it accepted the proposals of the USSR in 1939?
  • bandabas 13 March 2020 19: 51 New
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    What questions? Everyone had these white-eyed. And, Swedes, Norgs, Russians. Only under the Russian Empire did they get at least something in the form of a princedom. So let your Valio be packed in one place hi
  • Sergey Valov 13 March 2020 20: 58 New
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    That’s interesting, but do the supporters of the Finnish War (on our side, of course) ever recall the balance of power between the USSR and Finland? And second, and with what fright did the USSR have the right to demand any territorial concessions from a sovereign state?
    1. Mordvin 3 13 March 2020 21: 41 New
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      Quote: Sergey Valov
      And second, and with what fright did the USSR have the right to demand any territorial concessions from a sovereign state?

      Read at least the memoirs of the Finnish Foreign Minister, then you will understand. May be.
    2. nov_tech.vrn 13 March 2020 23: 27 New
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      Sergei, what right did the Finns have to invade the territory of the USSR in the early 20s and try to create puppet states in Karelia? This time. In fact, at that time the USSR was forced to keep a powerful group of troops against the Japanese in the Far East. They also held a strong group in the Caucasus to cover the Baku oil fields from the Turkish and Persian (now Iran) borders. The tactics of constant provocations on the part of the Finns, and their location at a distance allowing for shelling of Leningrad, left no choice, the potential threat had to be eliminated. The plans to send 150 thousand expeditionary forces to Finland to open hostilities were known in Moscow. The great war was brewing and the USSR was also preparing for it. The occupation of more advantageous positions, before the start of decisive battles, in military affairs has a considerable role.
      1. Sergey Valov 14 March 2020 21: 20 New
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        “And what the Finns had the right to” - resembles the principle of “self.” Naturally, they had no right.
        “In fact, at that time the USSR was forced to keep a powerful force against the Japanese in the Far East.” - At that time, the USSR had an army that was practically unworkable, industry lay in ruins. Even the Poles could fight us on equal terms, to say nothing of the Japanese.
        "Plans to send 150 thousand expeditionary force to Finland" - these plans are an answer to our aggressive plans.
        “The potential threat needed to be eliminated,” I fully agree, but I chose war as the solution of the USSR.
        “The occupation of more advantageous positions, before the start of decisive battles, in military affairs has a considerable role,” I fully agree. But then one must forget the two-faced statements about the peace-loving country of workers and peasants.
        1. nov_tech.vrn 15 March 2020 10: 15 New
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          Read carefully, the pug that constantly bites its legs should be ready to get a kick so as not to bite its balls despite the support group that sets it against it. Well, as for the rest, you messed up the site, most of them are familiar with the real story, and don’t write about “our aggressive plans,” I doubt very much that you are ours.
  • Vladislav 73 13 March 2020 21: 23 New
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    The 1st rank commander Semyon Tymoshenko was appointed Minister of Defense.
    Minister of Defense Marshal Kliment Voroshilov
    If you write, so at least observe the ranks and ranks of those times! Neither Voroshilov nor Tymoshenko were any Ministers of Defense from the word at all! Both were People's Commissars of Defense !!!
  • Caretaker 13 March 2020 21: 35 New
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    Quote: Caretaker
    Due to pilot error, bombs fell on the residential sector. Western media are filled with illustrations of the destruction of peaceful Finnish houses.

    I met information that the Finns were expanding the airfield and the tenants were evicted.
    I do not remember, in 1939. or 1941.
    1. Alexey RA 16 March 2020 19: 22 New
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      Quote: Caretaker
      I met information that the Finns were expanding the airfield and the tenants were evicted.
      I do not remember, in 1939. or 1941.

      The expansion of the Malmi airfield near Helsinki began after 22.06.41 - when the Finns with backlash suddenly discovered that the entire German group, which had placed mines near Leningrad, climbed into the airfield with great difficulty, and even with great difficulty - refueling. In nearby Utti, a total of fifty boards landed.
      In addition, 22.06.41./KGr.1 was relocated to Malmi from 806.
      Kampfgruppe 806 (KGr.806) Prowehren,? .8.-27.10.41 Riga, 1./KGr.806 Malmi (Finland) 22.6.-7.41
      1. Caretaker 16 March 2020 21: 54 New
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        Thank you.
        They bombed correctly, but unfortunately not too efficiently.
  • denplot 13 March 2020 21: 57 New
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    In the 90s ... during the period of maximum cooling of our army, I somehow came across an article by some Western expert on the Winter War. So he wrote that not a single army of the world of the late 30s model could break through the Manerheim line and that only the Red Army could do it. But he made a funny reservation that they could break through, but only in the presence of tactical nuclear weapons. Well, about TNW, I certainly laughed, but in one I agree with him: only the Red Army would be able to do that then. I thought the exception: the Wehrmacht, but the experience of subsequent winter battles showed that no.
    1. Bagatur 14 March 2020 12: 18 New
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      Rezun (Suvorov) wrote ...
    2. ROBIN-SON 14 March 2020 14: 12 New
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      Yes, in the book of V. Suvorov. The military supercomputer calculated and, taking into account many factors, gave out information - only tactical nuclear weapons to break the Mannerheim line, by the way there were several of them.
  • meandr51 13 March 2020 21: 59 New
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    Russia traditionally lost the initial stages of the war with Western countries and traditionally won over the eastern ones. Japan is better considered western, since it was by 1904.
    pumped up loans, technology and advisers to the Anglo-Saxons. In addition, the theater itself was unique. No one has ever fought in such conditions. In Rezun, in The Last Republic, he described how he tried to find with the help of the English General Staff supercomputer the best option for conducting military operations in the winter in the conditions of Karelia. The British charter and headquarters program explicitly prohibited this.
    Only two tactical nuclear bombs from the Soviet side came to the rescue.
    1. Kronos 14 March 2020 12: 59 New
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      In the first few wars, Russia lost to Turkey in the same way with the West it happened in completely different ways.
  • rruvim 13 March 2020 21: 59 New
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    In general, a strange war ... Yes, and the withdrawal of the front near Vyborg, as if knowledge of the future Great Patriotic War. As if already prepared. And we, and the so-called allies ... The Führer in 1927 said: "A new redistribution is coming!" after the Great War (World War I).
  • meandr51 13 March 2020 22: 12 New
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    Quote: Sergey Valov
    That’s interesting, but do the supporters of the Finnish War (on our side, of course) ever recall the balance of power between the USSR and Finland? And second, and with what fright did the USSR have the right to demand any territorial concessions from a sovereign state?

    Approximately the same as the Finns in 1920-22. When they tried to chop off from the RFSR more than she gave them in the 17th. Then no one was especially fanatical of international law. In addition, there was a historical precedent, which many understood in Finnish. When the principality was a part of the Republic of Ingushetia, in the region of Helsinki and on the islands there were Russian batteries covering the minefields. Fields guarded the naval approaches to Peter from the landing of the English landing. Without batteries, a powerful English fleet easily took off these fields and could destroy or capture Petersburg. By the way, Britain in 1940 regarded the war with the USSR as a real fact. About Germany and say nothing. We still lacked their union ...
    The Finnish campaign was done faster than the Europeans managed to scratch themselves. The losses were 1: 3, which is the standard value for offensive operations, especially in such difficult conditions.
    1. rruvim 13 March 2020 22: 28 New
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      Partly agree, partly not. A simple example: horses for the transport of everything and everything for our army were chosen the wrong breed. In those cold weather they just began to die ...
      1. rruvim 13 March 2020 22: 36 New
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        I also know that our 105 mm howitzers were equipped with shells of the first world war, without verification. They just spat ... In general, when we put 400 thousand Russian people only with the Finns, then of course we thought. But this did not save us: the Front was pushed away from St. Petersburg, but still, in the Great Patriotic War, we had to keep a group in Karelia.
        1. denplot 13 March 2020 22: 52 New
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          Where does 400 come from? According to Krivosheev 000 irrevocably. Including prisoners, which returned 126. Even the total loss is less than the figure that you brought.
          According to various sources, the Finns are from 48 to 000 irrevocably. They themselves give the figure of 95. Well, we believe in the finals ..
          1. rruvim 13 March 2020 23: 21 New
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            I know a historian, he is a member of the Military Historical Society, has access to the archives, said that our losses are about 400. But the military losses are classified. All others in this figure are sick and died of respiratory illnesses. Finnish combat losses - about 000 fighters (according to the Finns themselves). Generally fifti-fifti. Although sad. I love Chukhons, and Russians as well.
            1. Tamer 16 March 2020 10: 33 New
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              Quote: rruvim
              I know a historian, he is a member of the Military Historical Society, has access to the archives

              For some members of the RVIO, the defense of Tula is illustrated by "aht-ahtami" wink And why should a historian be allowed into classified archives? So that he later "said that our losses were about 400. But the military ones are classified" request
        2. ZAV69 14 March 2020 20: 38 New
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          Where in the Red Army 105 mm howitzers? There were no howitzers of this caliber. Howitzers in the Red Army began with 122 mm
    2. ROBIN-SON 14 March 2020 14: 17 New
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      There were more losses. But if we subtract the poor education of our generals, and the stick in the hands of the ITT, it is likely that the losses will yield less than 1 to 3.
    3. ROBIN-SON 14 March 2020 14: 30 New
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      The old border passed along the line of Peter the Great, the Finns received this part of Russia as a gift from Alexander. But the Finns wanted independence and like Poles from mozh to mozh land. We also wanted Karelia. Nikolay came and began to press them. The Finns did not like this. By the way, Mannerheim himself wrote in his memoirs that his father and his entourage, and Mannerheim was a Swede, and they were Swedes, and then they ruled the Finns and now, they thought that the gift of the Vyborg district - liang could lead to problems in the future. So then we took our own. The empire, unlike today's Russia, cherished and did not give up.
    4. Sergey Valov 14 March 2020 21: 30 New
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      Do not bother all in one pile. Coastal batteries were built by the Republic of Ingushetia against the Kaiser German fleet. England planned military operations against the USSR in response to our rapprochement with Germany. Losses 1/3 are normal when a defense breaks through, and the ratio becomes inverse when the defense is broken.
      Germany and England could not unite against the USSR, in principle, their contradictions were more abrupt than with us.
      But the fact that the seizure of foreign territories was the norm at that time - I completely agree with this.
  • ROBIN-SON 13 March 2020 22: 26 New
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    The Finns, like the Balts, never felt love for the Russians. The Finns were dissatisfied with the tsarist government, tried to gain independence. The revolution accelerated their dream. The remnants of the Russian army left Finland, the Finns staged the Vyborg massacre, destroying several thousand people who were not military in the city. And what kind of genocide did they commit with their compatriots? The Red Finns that even Mannerheim left power. The Finns were closer to the Germans. Having gained independence, they began to actively cooperate with the Germans, sending youth to military schools in Vaterland. By the way
    Under the tsar, Finns from the state’s elite considered it an honor to study in Russian military institutions.
    The winter war was caused by the fact that WWII was approaching and the Germans were supposed to steer there. At the border 30 km from Leningrad, the Finns, with the help of the Germans, would arrange such a blockade that no one would be left alive. Maybe the city would survive, it would be completely destroyed. And we would fight in a bag. The Finns were more cruel to the peaceful more than the Wehrmacht, i.e. Leningrad region would be cleared of the population.
    As for our army in a Finnish company, a war on such a theater would be difficult for any army. The Finns were doomed to defeat nonetheless. The Red Army mainly relied on the experience of the Civil War. Horse armies and infantry divisions. Powerful defensive line. Senior officers did not have a normal military education. They relied on the infantry mass. And the worst thing. with a fool went on the forehead.
    Even Meretskov did not know about the Finnish bunkers "Le Bourget" flanking fire. He led the army of Tymoshenko, this is the first stage. Those. the army was going blind. This is strange, according to the Finns, Soviet intelligence officers were in those areas at home. True, then in the General Staff found albums with drawings and photos of these bunkers! Therefore, talk about the weakness of the Red Army is not worth it. There was a human factor. And our politicians have repeatedly confirmed this and confirm it.
    All strategic plans of the Soviet government in terms of Finland and the Baltic were correct. But the performers alas. Unfortunately, among the military there was no Suvorov A.V. He probably appeared in the year 43.
    1. rruvim 13 March 2020 22: 58 New
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      Well, you are discussing with yourself. Yes! Winter war was necessary! Yes, it was necessary to divert the border from Leningrad. Although the Bolsheviks decided to give Finland, the Baltic states and part of Poland and Ukraine (only in the west) to the separatists and Germans. But we must admit that the Red Army began this war thoughtlessly and stupidly. Just unprofessional. Of course, you can put it on Stalin's purges, of course, etc. etc. But I would simply blame the concept of the Russian General Staff. The Red Army was, simply, a successor. Then, when I saw the columns of armored vehicles in the Chechen companies, the columns of armored vehicles in August 2008, etc., etc. I realized that nothing has changed in the minds of our generals. In the winter war was not the first and not the last case of the nomination of divisions in columns. When I served in EW, I tried to explain to my captain that extending EW systems in a convoy along a well-known road is criminal. But he did not heed my considerations, the ordinary sergeant, because he was taught at the Higher School of Air Defense in Kiev different ...
      1. rruvim 13 March 2020 23: 08 New
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        When I disguised my electronic warfare complex near Balkhash (a jamming station and a diesel engine) they could not find me for two days, although there was a connection (laid a cable to the nearest air defense point), they tried to send me to Guba as a deserter. Glory to God cost. So in the winter war, there were Russian snipers on Finnish snipers who dressed in the skins of polar bears (fake), but the Red Army commanders did not understand this, and wrote denunciations that the fighters, instead of showing the red stars to the ideological enemy, hid and merged with nature ...
        1. Avior 13 March 2020 23: 56 New
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          The Finns were ofigel, probably, when for the first time in Finland they saw polar bears, and while they were stunned by the sight of the beast that is not found in Finland, ours shot them smile
      2. ROBIN-SON 14 March 2020 13: 53 New
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        You correctly say that I am discussing with myself. The topic is so interesting and tragic that in the comment and not open. Once again I want to confirm that the political part of our actions in the Baltic states and in the Finnish company was correct. He himself was born in Leningrad. My mother told me that the Finns violated our airspace and periodically flew over Leningrad. Believe not believe? Mother at the beginning of the winter war was 15 years old. Grandfather took part in the Finnish company, not as an ordinary, but as an officer. He told how the Finns tossed in the arrangement of our parts lighters and fountain pens with a charge. Despite the prohibitions, the soldiers picked them up and lost the fingers of their right hands. He told a lot of things, but I was a kid and I already forgot a lot.
        I myself have a summer cottage near Vyborg so that with my feet on the hunts I knew what our military was like in this war. Of course, my efforts were insignificant with what our troops met. Around the stones, covered with moss, if it rained then the person rose hard, not to mention the technique. Lakes, between them swamps, hills and forests. Now they are almost cut down by businessmen. Winding dirt roads, knocked out the lead tank, car and all. Snipers, mobile groups perfectly know these places. Therefore, our group was destroyed north of Ladoga, the Finns called it the Battle of Suovannjärvi. 8th army was almost destroyed.
        As for the Finnish humanism. How many Finnish concentration camps were there and how many prisoners of war and civilians and children were destroyed there? Now there is a lot of information about these events and before writing about these years, read books, the Internet.
        But there was nothing to repeat the mantra of the Red Army, and Adolf understood this and attacked the USSR, from a small mind. Or Mannerheim loved Leningrad and therefore did not shell him. Well, in the first place, he loved St. Petersburg and RI and the tsar, not Leningrad and the USSR, and secondly, he helped the Germans keep the blockade of the city.
        Yes, the Finns were between a rock and a hard place, and that was their misfortune. But the Red Army accomplished a feat by breaking through the Finnish URs. About the losses. To avoid them there is only one way out - to give up, but then rot in the camp huts. If you adhere to this, then the defense of the Brest Fortress was absolutely not needed, five days later it was necessary to surrender. The French surrendered to the Germans, leaving the Maginot Line a hundred times more powerful than Brest. Surrendered, and then there were still winners in WWII
      3. Tamer 16 March 2020 10: 52 New
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        Quote: rruvim
        In the winter war was not the first and not the last case of the nomination of divisions in columns.

        And do you take into account the conditions in which divisions were advanced during the Winter War? The number of people, equipment, convoys, transport network, dates?
        And the fact that your captain needs to be dragged at a set time and a point more than one station and a diesel generator? Yes, and the route, according to the combat order for the march, he did not come up with. And his sergeants are by no means all so talented and proactive.
    2. Stils 14 March 2020 00: 02 New
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      It’s a lie that the Finns were more cruel than the Wehrmacht, follow the language, this is not true. They were more humane to prisoners of war than the Red Army. Yes, there were repressions, but if you compare them with the repressions against the Ingermanlanders of the Soviet regime, to which my ancestors I relate to the Russians was more than humane.
      1. Serwid 14 March 2020 05: 21 New
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        Quote: Stils
        They were more humane to prisoners of war than the Red Army. Yes, there were repressions, but if you compare them with the repressions against the Ingermanlanders of the Soviet regime, to which my ancestors I relate to the Russians was more than humane.

        Yes, the Finns were so humane that they organized a children's concentration camp. Probably from the kindness of the soul. And another question: who are Ingermanlanders and what kind of repression did they undergo?
        1. Stils 14 March 2020 10: 25 New
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          Ingermanlanders Baltic-Finnish people (Izhora, Vod, Savakot), lived in areas of the Leningrad region. There were 5 waves of repression in the 30-40s. There were about 60 thousand people at that time, now it is a practically extinct and assimilated people.
          1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 13: 15 New
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            Quote: Stils
            Ingermanlanders Baltic-Finnish people (Izhora, Vod, Savakot), lived in areas of the Leningrad region.

            So you are not Ingrian, then it’s understandable.
            Initially, Ingermanland Finns are part of the Euremays and Savakots resettled by the Swedes after the Stolbovo Peace, in several waves, to the lands of Russians, Izhors, Karelians, and Vozhans expelled and exterminated by the Swedes.
            Some representatives of these peoples did not have time or were unable to evacuate, and deprived of the opportunity to pray in Orthodox churches, adopted Lutheranism. Perhaps you are one of them. For example, Russian, Izhorets or Karelian Lutheran religion.
            Often, all Lutherans in this region are called “Finnish Ingermanlanders,” and many consider themselves to be such (they have the right, this is a personal matter of every citizen), but this is not entirely correct for the case when evictions / relocations are considered, because resettled with different rights. As a rule, Ingermanlanders were resettled without losing their rights, i.e. they could choose a place of work and residence (with restrictions).
            As for those resettled from the besieged Leningrad, the severity of evacuation (hunger, cold, bombing, illness ...) were the same for all those evacuated from the city during this period. And they were not allowed to take a lot of things with everyone evacuated.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Stils 14 March 2020 14: 01 New
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              Great-grandmother spoke Izhora, with her children because of the persecution in Russian, they are no longer native speakers. Izhora, along with the Euremays and Savakots, was also subjected to repression. You don’t know the Leningrad Region, by the beginning of the 20th century, almost all churches were Orthodox with parishioners of the same Izhora, in the central and southern parts
              1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 14: 23 New
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                Quote: Stils
                Great-grandmother spoke Izhora ...

                That’s the answer.
                1. Stils 14 March 2020 14: 31 New
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                  The answer to what? Izhora, Novgorod, Vologda blood flows in me. The peoples lived side by side, there were a lot of mixed marriages, they professed Orthodoxy together until the Bolsheviks came and all this was charmed. You can relate differently to the Finns, the Baltic states, but it’s worth crossing the border and you understand where the owner is, and where instead of the owner it is not clear what.
                  1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 14: 47 New
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                    Quote: Stils
                    The answer to what? Izhora, Novgorod, Vologda blood flows in me. The peoples lived side by side, there were a lot of mixed marriages, together they professed Orthodoxy,

                    The answer is that you have a very superficial understanding of the Finns-Ingermanlanders.
                    I also do not belong to this nationality, but I was interested in the history of the region.
                    1. Stils 14 March 2020 15: 00 New
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                      I do not pretend to have detailed knowledge, but I ride in the region, I am interested in villages, their names, and history. What you write was allegedly exterminated by the Swedes Izhora and this is not true, they were simply converted to Lutheranism, who did not want to run to Novgorod, and after Peter came back to Orthodoxy.
          2. ROBIN-SON 14 March 2020 14: 00 New
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            Yes it's true. Very sorry for these people. By the way, many Finns worked and lived in St. Petersburg. This is certainly better than today's Gaster. There were also many Germans - trade, medicine. And others. With their departure, there was no one to keep the brand of the city.
      2. Caretaker 14 March 2020 10: 48 New
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        Quote: Stils
        It’s a lie that the Finns were more cruel than the Wehrmacht, watch out for the language, this is not true

        You are not aware of what is happening, hiding your head in the sand.
        All civilians in the territory occupied by Finns, not related to the so-called "related peoples" were placed in concentration (labor) camps. Imagine - everything from small to large!
        According to Finnish researchers, losses among Soviet prisoners of war in the winter of 1941-1942. were higher than in Germany (maybe the same, depending on how you count). At the same time, almost all men of military age who are not related to “kindred nations” were sent to prisoner-of-war camps.

        T.N. Ingrian Finns were evicted without losing their rights.
        By the way, they were "evicted", but essentially evacuated from the besieged Leningrad, on a common basis, they shared the fate of all those evacuated.
        From the border areas and the KAUR strip, all residents were evicted without looking at their nationality, including and Finns-Igermanlanders, without privileges.
        1. Stils 14 March 2020 11: 46 New
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          These are tales that all unrelated were placed in the camps. And I saw this photo,
          They say staged, not the fact that this is not a linden. The atrocities against vp were on both sides. Ingermanlanders incidentally were not allowed to return until the 70s.
          1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 12: 31 New
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            Quote: Stils
            These are tales that all unrelated were placed in the camps. A photo I saw

            I'm not talking about a specific photo, although I consider it real.
            Information not only from ours, but from Finnish sources. The Finns do not deny, they only say that in the civilian camps the regime was not too difficult. It depends on what you compare it to.
            Look in Yandex, you will surely find it.
          2. Kronos 14 March 2020 13: 03 New
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            Listen, for example, to the historian Bair Irincheev, he confirms the atrocities of the Finns
      3. Mordvin 3 14 March 2020 11: 07 New
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        Quote: Stils
        the attitude towards the Russians was more than humane.


        In the memoirs (Vanka company, it seems), a case is described where, to raise the spirits of German soldiers, a Finnish fighter came to them on the front end, who ran through our trenches and cut 18 Red Army soldiers with a knife.
        1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 11: 13 New
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          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          when a Finnish soldier came to their front to raise the spirit of the German soldiers, who ran through our trenches and cut out 18 Red Army soldiers with a knife.

          Why not 118 or the whole division?
          Believe in fairy tales.
          1. Mordvin 3 14 March 2020 11: 17 New
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            Quote: Caretaker
            Why not 118 or the whole division?
            Believe in fairy tales.

            These are Shumilin’s memoirs. The fact that he was a Finnish fighter was found out later, when intelligence captured the language. And believe it or not is your right.
            1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 11: 28 New
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              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              These are Shumilin’s memoirs ...

              Military mythology, so that the sentries do not doze.
              Memoirs are not a document, especially from the words "language".
              Imagine that the "language" was asked if he killed three sleeping people?
              Naturally, he will answer that "this is not our business." Otherwise, they may not be brought to the headquarters.
              1. Mordvin 3 14 March 2020 11: 38 New
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                Quote: Caretaker
                Memoirs are not a document, especially from the words "language".

                I have already written.
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                Believe it or not is your right.

                By the way, on the Rusknife knife forum there are interesting specimens of Finnish knives, where the scabbard is decorated with Soviet insignia.
                1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 12: 22 New
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                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  By the way, on the Rusknife knife forum there are interesting specimens of Finnish knives, where the scabbard is decorated with Soviet insignia.

                  And what does that prove?
                  There are probably a lot of photos of captured knives and scabbard in the subject “Finnish military knives”.
                  The Finns had losses - our trophies had and vice versa.
                  1. Mordvin 3 14 March 2020 13: 16 New
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                    Quote: Caretaker
                    There are probably a lot of photos of captured knives and scabbard in the subject “Finnish military knives”.

                    But it’s not very pleasant to watch how the descendants of the Finns sell knives, with a scabbard, decorated with our cubars and guards badges.
                    1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 13: 55 New
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                      Quote: mordvin xnumx
                      Quote: Caretaker
                      There are probably a lot of photos of captured knives and scabbard in the subject “Finnish military knives”.

                      But it’s not very pleasant to watch how the descendants of the Finns sell knives, with a scabbard, decorated with our cubars and guards badges.

                      Perhaps the descendants of our veterans sell Finnish knives (trophy).
                      Or do you think that cold weapons were not taken from captured and killed Finns?
                      1. Mordvin 3 14 March 2020 14: 14 New
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                        Quote: Caretaker
                        Or do you think that cold weapons were not taken from captured and killed Finns?

                        Why do you think so? Of course they took it. Moreover, they were highly valued. After all, every Finn is obliged to come to the draft board with his knife. What is the record in the glove book about? If you look into my profile, you will find there my article about Soviet Finnish. I am familiar with the topic.
                      2. Caretaker 14 March 2020 14: 27 New
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                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        If you look into my profile, you will find there my article about Soviet Finnish.

                        I read earlier, I liked the article.
        2. ROBIN-SON 14 March 2020 14: 06 New
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          After all the wars, the Finns infiltrated our territory and massacred our people. So the radio post was cut out. In the villages they did this. Now they do not advertise it - our partners .....
    3. tagil 14 March 2020 12: 43 New
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      It’s a lie that the Finns were more cruel than the Wehrmacht, follow the language, this is not true.

      Read this and watch your language. I can tell you such a humane attitude of Finns to Russians for a whole book.

      "Having captured Soviet military personnel, immediately separate the command staff from the rank and file, and also the Karelians from the Russians. ... Detach the Russian population and send them to concentration camps. Russian-speaking people of Finnish and Karelian descent who want to join the Karelian population are not reckoned with the Russians" from the secret order of Mannerheim on July 8, 1941

      FROM MESSAGES OF THE SOVIET INFORMBUREAU
      Near the village of V. in the north-western direction of the front, the Germans captured and captured two wounded Red Army soldiers. The Nazis shot one of them, and the second was burnt alive at the stake. On the northern front, the White Finns captured Captain Ladonin, wounded in both legs, captured. Shyutkorovtsi cut his face with a razor, gouged out his eyes and inflicted many stab wounds. The mutilated corpse comrade The Red Army men found Ladonin in the closet of the house, which housed the office of the Belofin battalion.
      From the evening message on August 5, 1941

      Looting in the Finnish army is encouraged in every way and is the responsibility of Finnish soldiers. The secret instruction of the headquarters of the 7th Finnish Infantry Division No. 511 states: "Under all circumstances, as the situation permits, all uniforms and equipment should be removed from killed enemy soldiers. If necessary, prisoners of war can be involved in this work. (Basis: telegraphic order of the headquarters Karelian army). "
      From the evening message on January 3, 1942

      The Red Army soldier Terentyev Sergey Pavlovich who escaped from the Belofin captivity spoke about the unbearable suffering of Soviet prisoners of war languishing in a camp near the city of Pitkaranta. “In this camp,” Terentyev said, “the wounded Red Army soldiers are being kept. They don’t receive any medical help. <...> They gave us a mug of flour stew every day. The Finnish executioners invented a terrible torture for us. They encircled the prisoner with barbed wire and dragged on the ground. Daily from the camp are taken out the corpses of tortured Soviet soldiers. "
      From the evening message on October 7, 1942
  • Stils 13 March 2020 23: 51 New
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    The USSR recognized the Soviet-Finnish borders until 1939, then Stalin changed his mind ... and then there was the Maynil incident, as if all the rest were justifications
    1. rruvim 14 March 2020 00: 08 New
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      But these incidents were dozens. It was simply not necessary to recognize the right of nations to self-determination, and the Bolsheviks frantically did this. We still disentangle ... And after the war, on the Halkin-Gol hills, there was dizziness from success. We must also admit that under Stalin there was complete democracy! Those in power themselves ate themselves. Clever people from the General Staff on their fingers explained that if you don’t move the front away from Peter, Peter (Leningrad) is the khan. Which was done in the winter of the 40th with incredible losses. All the same, Russian women give birth ... And Peter in the end survived and again with incredible losses. Although in the 20s and 30s it was settled by another ethnic group ...
      1. rruvim 14 March 2020 00: 12 New
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        Although, for the sake of this new Petersburg ethnos (for safety), the winter campaign of 1940 was launched.
    2. Mordvin 3 14 March 2020 11: 12 New
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      Quote: Stils
      The USSR recognized the Soviet-Finnish borders until 1939, then Stalin changed his mind ... and then there was the Maynil incident, as if all the rest were justifications

      And then I advise you to read the memoirs of the Finnish Foreign Minister Tanner about the course of negotiations with the leadership of the USSR.
  • nikvic46 14 March 2020 06: 33 New
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    The article is good. For some, this war was the last. And they must be included in the lists that gave their lives for the country.
    1. Caretaker 14 March 2020 11: 03 New
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      Quote: nikvic46
      For some, this war was the last. And they must be included in the lists that gave their lives for the country.

      So long ago introduced and monuments erected, you just do not know.
      Unfortunately, not all, because a significant part of the Finnish archives was “evacuated” to Sweden.
  • swan49 14 March 2020 11: 38 New
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    Who is interested in the Soviet-Finnish war, see the lectures of Oleg Podkopaev, Bair Irincheev, Denis Popov and Alexei Isaev. The entire campaign is sorted by days and hours with the application of maps. And we need to stop all talk about the "secrecy of materials." Who wants to find documents, he finds. And to look in the “political” archive on Frunzenskaya for documents that need to be studied in the military archive at the Water Stadium .... But you need to understand that you will be given thick volumes and they will need to be turned over for weeks (!) Not just turn over, but also read, not forgetting to make extracts, choosing from them those documents that will interest you and somehow form your idea of one or another event. By the end of the third day, if there is no personal interest (and not idle curiosity), you will get tired of this. From my own little experience, I’ll say this is a hell of a job, and a deep bow to those historians who work with archival documents.
  • xomaNN 14 March 2020 12: 43 New
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    Just the enormous losses of the Red Army in manpower, tanks, planes, for the bulk of the army (and especially the population) remained a mystery to the roar of victorious fanfare. Enough to read the newspapers of 1940. The Baltic Fleet, unfortunately, almost uselessly shot at the Finnish coastal batteries. Permutations in the upper echelon of the Red Army were. But, judging by 1941, they did not radically change the situation in the army. recourse
    ====
    Something that was repeated in the 5-day campaign of 2008 with Georgia. But from this skirmish, conclusions were drawn and the results are obvious! crying
    1. Alexey RA 16 March 2020 19: 39 New
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      Quote: xomaNN
      Enough to read the newspapers of 1940. The Baltic Fleet, unfortunately, almost uselessly shot at the Finnish coastal batteries.

      BF sample 1939-1940 - This is generally a song without words.
      In the very first military operation on 01.12.1939/234/XNUMX, the fleet almost lost the newest Kirov missile launcher and EM "Shrewd" and "Swift" - the group was sent to find out the location of Finnish coastal batteries (intelligence worked fine, yes ...) to the area. controlled by a XNUMX mm battery, and even covered by a minefield. Thanks to the Finns that they could not stand it and opened fire first, forcing the Soviet ships to turn away. For the course of the Kyrgyz Republic and EM brought them directly to the mines.
      On the eve of this war, according to the head of the Navy’s Combat Training Directorate, flagship 2nd rank Yu.F. Rally, the Kirov cruiser was not ready to perform fire missions, artillery and torpedo fire. He did not perform any test shooting with the main caliber. The readiness of other ships of the Light Forces detachment (OLS), which entered service in 1938 and 1939, was also insufficient.
      (...)
      At 6.35 on December 1, the Kirov began to anchor. The destroyers followed him, and the detachment in the wake convoy headed for 20 knots to the area of ​​the upcoming operation. Having approached the Rusare island at a distance of 110 kb, the cruiser lay down on a combat course of 240 °, which, as it turned out after the war, led directly to the minefield. At 10.55, the 234-mm battery of the island opened fire on Soviet ships. Given the order is not under fire, the OLS commander, who was holding the flag on Kirov, ordered to increase the speed to 24 knots and lie down on a 210 ° course, turning right side to Russare. This saved the ship, otherwise it would have ended up on land mines.

      Well, the shelling of the Björke batteries is some kind of ... shame. The link to poor preparation will not work here - the fire was fired by the LK still of royal construction. The fleet, not counting ship vehicles, had coastal seaplane spotters. Finnish air defense was minimal. It would seem: hang a couple of spotters, detecting guns by unmasking their shots, ensure the rotation of the naval I-16s to cover them - and work as if in a shooting gallery. As a last resort - put open firing positions on the map (according to spotters or photo scouts), and work on OP more or less precisely.
      No, we will shoot hard according to intelligence - as a result of which the Finns will do more damage to their guns than the BF.
  • Alexfly 14 March 2020 14: 16 New
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    Does 120.000 not seem like a high price for a plot of land? Mediocrity of command and poor individual training of a fighter is to blame for this ...
    1. Kronos 15 March 2020 01: 45 New
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      Given the fortifications, stubborn opponents, no experience gained
    2. place 18 March 2020 16: 30 New
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      Quote: AlexFly
      Does 120.000 not seem like a high price for a plot of land? Mediocrity of command and poor individual preparation of a fighter is to blame for this.

      ------------------

      1. And under your command, would things be better? The point is not in the "patches of land" themselves, but in the proximity of the "patches" of Leningrad.
      2. And 120 thousand against 50 thousand Finnish losses is just the ratio that is accepted in all armies of the world, as acceptable in the assault on fortified areas. ON THE WAR EVEN AND KILL !!! Didn't you know? For example, during the assaults of Port Arthur in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904, the Japanese lost 120 thousand with the losses of Russians - 28 thousand. And still proud of the victory and do not consider this a high payment.

      3. Is the annual decline in Russia's population in peacetime by hundreds of thousands in the 21st century normal? If ancestors were alive - they would curse such descendants. BUT they did not know that abominable geeks would fill the land for which they had to die.
  • nnz226 14 March 2020 19: 28 New
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    Finns called Molotov cocktails: “Cocktail FOR Molotov”, then this excuse fell out of circulation ... It is clear that the “product” is called by the name of the inventor, and V. Molotov definitely did not invent such a device. And the name has reappeared in recent years. During the war, neither ours nor German soldiers called bottles of gas or liquid cop ...
  • Sergei Novozhilov 16 March 2020 18: 41 New
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    As a result of the war, Budyonnovka was canceled and hats with earflaps, as well as wadded jackets and trousers were introduced like Finns. Instead of a shallow helmets, they introduced the SSH-40, which was worn on a hat.
  • place 18 March 2020 12: 02 New
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    According to the materials of Nezavisimaya Gazeta, back to the date of the 60th anniversary of the war, namely according to the Finnish Defense Ministry, THEIR ARCHIVES WERE OPENED! The losses in the war were 3: 1, which is typical during the storming of fortified areas. And, for example, in the Russo-Japanese in 1904 during the assaults on Port Arthur, the Japanese lost even 4: 1. And the Japanese did not consider this their luck.

    The fact that the USSR won in 2.5 months in conditions not only of severe frosts, but also with a long day of about 6 hours (that is, when and when to fight, it was not when), we say "not comme il faut".

    For the “quasi-Soviet” propaganda from the time of the “thaw”, as well as for the current one –– the losses of the USSR were up to a million people in general and the data on losses can differ by an order of magnitude ......... therefore, it’s not possible to take Russian statistics seriously one normal person will not. This is all the same rage as the Solzhenitsyn’s “one hundred million prisoners of the Gulag”, and for the hollowed-out “Russian patriots,” like a hundred years ago, the worse, the better.

    BUT THE MAIN FACT of the history of wars is that even the Pyrrhic victory was not a victory with one-sided losses. Victories, in which the victors died, and the vanquished, intact, do not happen.