MiG-31 regiment with hypersonic "Daggers" deployed in the Krasnoyarsk Territory

MiG-31 fighter interceptors with dagger hypersonic systems will take up combat duty in the Central Military District. This was stated by the commander of the Central Military District Alexander Lapin.

According to the commander, until 2024 the district will re-equip the MiG-31 fighter-interceptors from the Kansky regiment in the Krasnoyarsk Territory under the carriers of the dagger hypersonic complex.

In accordance with the equipment plan, we are re-equipping the regiment with dagger hypersonic missiles until 2024

- said Lapin.

Earlier it was reported that the military department decided to deploy hypersonic dagger missiles on the Kola Peninsula and Kamchatka to cover, including the Northern Sea Route. Most likely, under the hypersonic RK "Dagger" will be converted aircraft of two military units from the marine aviation The Russian Navy, armed with MIG-31 interceptors, is in Monchegorsk in the Murmansk Region and in Yelizovo in Kamchatka.

At the end of November this year, the Ministry of Defense reported on past tests of the dagger hypersonic missile system in arctic conditions. The missile was launched by the MiG-31K for a target located at the Pemboy training ground to the north-east of Vorkuta, which it successfully hit.

The newest Russian dagger air company includes the MiG-31K fighter-interceptor, specially upgraded as a carrier of a hypersonic missile, which is an aircraft version of the Iskander-M OTRK missile.

According to the official information of the Ministry of Defense, one MiG-31K squadron with “Daggers” has been on duty in the Southern Military District since December 2017, and since April 2018, the MiG-31K aircraft have regular flights over the Black and Caspian Seas.

Comments

[svp67]

It remains only to understand who these MiGs will "threaten" with their "Daggers" from the Krasnoyarsk Territory ...

[Sofa expert]

Probably neighbors from the south

[Nastia makarova]

how to whom ??? NATO!!

[svp67]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

how to whom ??? NATO!!

Explain.

[Hammer]

Romario_Argo is right. Just as I see it is not a reluctance to escalate the political situation, it is being pumped beyond measure without us. Most likely, it is a desire not to substitute such a valuable resource (I would say strategic) for the first disarming strike. Near Krasnoyarsk adversary they can only get ICBMs. And if the ICBM was used, then aviation is already unnecessary, and to all. In general, they are there for safety, and transferring them to the desired direction is a matter of some hours.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Hammer

Most likely, the desire is not to substitute such a valuable resource (I would say strategic) for the first disarming strike

It seems to me that you greatly overestimate the value of this resource. In fact, the "Dagger" is a kind of replacement for the MRBM for the first time (the INF Treaty is no longer valid for us).

Quote: Hammer

Near Krasnoyarsk adversary they can only get ICBMs.

It depends on whom to consider an adversary. The base in Krasnoyarsk suggests that in this case in this role we see our Chinese friends who have not restrained themselves with all kinds of INF Treaty all these years.

[Hammer]

Quote: Kalmar

You greatly overestimate the value of this resource. In fact, the "Dagger" is a kind of replacement for the MRBM for the first time (the INF Treaty is no longer valid for us).

Not at all. At the moment, the MiG-31 / Dagger complex cannot be overestimated. Including because, as you put it, "a kind of replacement for the MRBM." Considering the ability to carry nuclear warheads, but with incomparably greater mobility than ground complexes, the MiG-31 / Dagger can be classified as a strategic deterrent. It is the possibility of inflicting inevitable (!!!) and unacceptable damage to the entire depth of the European theater of operations and the Asian theater of operations (Japan, South Korea, etc.) that transfers it from the category of conventional high-precision weapons to strategic ones. And not for the "first time". One regiment with MiG-31 with "Daggers", taking into account its mobility, can more than replace several regiments of ground-based MRBMs. This is no longer a frail economic component ...

Quote: Kalmar

It depends on whom to consider an adversary. The base in Krasnoyarsk suggests that in this case in this role we see our Chinese friends who have not restrained themselves with all kinds of INF Treaty all these years.

Relax. At this historical stage and in the foreseeable future, the PRC is not our enemy. Not a friend of course. But there is no reason for China to attack us now. For the Chinese, there are enough enemies without us. China now needs Russia as an ally. And we will be needed for a long time. Pure pragmatism, with both sides. Just as we hide Daggers from our Western "partners" in Krasnoyarsk, so the Chinese hide their ground ICBMs near our borders. Under the umbrella of our air defense and missile defense. And not only this.
Do not look for a problem where it does not exist.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Hammer

the possibility of causing inevitable (!!!) and unacceptable damage to the entire depth of the European theater of war and the Asian theater of war (Japan, South Korea, etc.)

Inevitability, and even to the "full depth" is debatable. For the missile itself, the launch range of 1500 km is indicated, the rest is the combat radius of the carrier, which still needs to be somehow protected from air defense.

Quote: Hammer

But there is no reason for China to attack us now.

If so to argue, then NATO also does not have such a need, we don’t interfere with their particular lives. And so, if you look at the post-war history, there is a feeling that there were more direct clashes between us and China than with NATO countries. Well yes it is, thoughts out loud.

[Nastia makarova]

that from the west, Nato could not destroy the airfield

[svp67]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

that from the west, Nato could not destroy the airfield

and .... Then what? So she can do it from the East and the North.

[Nastia makarova]

will not get the base in Krasnoyarsk

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

that from the west, Nato could not destroy the airfield

So let's move all the troops from the borders to the Krasnoyarsk Territory according to your logic ...
That the adversary could not destroy them!

[Nastia makarova]

dagger carriers are strategic troops !!!

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

dagger carriers are strategic troops !!!

Suddenly...

Do the Ministry of Defense and Shoigu know about this?

[Nastia makarova]

of course!!! a dagger is a strategic weapon

[YOUR]

They moved away from the Chinese border. All fortified areas were destroyed. The Chinese don't. For example, in the Dalnerechensk region, our fortified area was completely destroyed, but the Chinese on the opposite bank were not touched and continues to be on duty. They are friends. True, for some reason, their Shenyang Military District is becoming more and more "fat", more precisely now it is the Northern Military District. Reminds nothing, no associations? Well, there are northern barbarians, our lands in the north ...

[CSKA]

Quote: YOUR

True, for some reason, their Shenyang Military District is becoming more and more "fat", more precisely now it is the Northern Military District.

What are you? And what do you think means gaining weight?

[YOUR]

Fattening means that first of all it receives modern weapons and equipment, and also the number of troops is increasing. It was 750, now more than 000. Is that clear?

[CSKA]

Quote: YOUR

Fattening means that first of all it receives modern weapons and equipment

All districts, without exception, receive modern military equipment.

Quote: YOUR

It was 750, now more than 000. Is that clear?

Where does the data not tell?

Quote: YOUR

Reminds nothing, no associations? Well there are northern barbarians, our lands in the north

I’ve heard about 20 years ago that China wants to attack, that it is preparing for the capture, but it’s all gone. Khramchikhin wrote everything, though now he is stuck. Still, do not calm down.

[bayard]

Quote: SovAr238A

So let's move all the troops from the borders to the Krasnoyarsk Territory according to your logic ...
That the adversary could not destroy them!

Already.
And how long .
In the Krasnoyarsk Territory, our ICBMs are just away from the sudden and disarming.
And the MiG-31K from near Krasnoyarsk at any time can be quickly relocated: in Primorye, to Kamchatka, in a southerly direction. And if necessary, he can deliver the first blow at once - having refueled in the air during the flight and shot at least over the Caucasus or the Caspian (in the Middle East, Western Asia, and the Eastern Mediterranean).
This is a very flexible and long-range weapon for strategic purposes (with nuclear warheads). Taking into account the fact that the industry issues 20 MiG-31s ​​from modernization every year, and the need for such interceptors is somehow not observed (the Su-35 will do it better), then all the MiG-31s ​​remaining in storage can be upgraded for carriers of "Daggers ". Such an upgrade, by the way, will be much cheaper and easier than a full-fledged interceptor. Therefore, we can expect in service with such products from 60 to 100 pieces. And these are only carriers, and they can (according to the standard) make up to 12-16 sorties per day (every hour and a half), of course, with a change of crews ...
No one, of course, will not be able to withstand such a regime, but even two or three sorties of such a regiment (20-24 sides) with special-purpose products can destroy the entire infrastructure of a strong medium-sized state.
One regiment.
And as such a carrier, the MiG-31 will be able to serve for a long time, and with great benefit to the Fatherland.
And this - the Krasnoyarsk base, will be essentially a reserve. A kind of regiment of operational-strategic reserve and quick response.
And the other bases are completely forward-based: Kola, Kamchatka, Ciscaucasia.
MiG-31 equipment in the carrier of such weapons is a completely brilliant idea.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: bayard

Quote: SovAr238A

So let's move all the troops from the borders to the Krasnoyarsk Territory according to your logic ...
That the adversary could not destroy them!

Already.
And how long .
In the Krasnoyarsk Territory, our ICBMs are just away from the sudden and disarming.
And the MiG-31K from near Krasnoyarsk at any time can be quickly relocated: in Primorye, to Kamchatka, in a southerly direction. And if necessary, he can deliver the first blow at once - having refueled in the air during the flight and shot at least over the Caucasus or the Caspian (in the Middle East, Western Asia, and the Eastern Mediterranean).
This is a very flexible and long-range weapon for strategic purposes (with nuclear warheads). Taking into account the fact that the industry issues 20 MiG-31s ​​from modernization every year, and the need for such interceptors is somehow not observed (the Su-35 will do it better), then all the MiG-31s ​​remaining in storage can be upgraded for carriers of "Daggers ". Such an upgrade, by the way, will be much cheaper and easier than a full-fledged interceptor. Therefore, we can expect in service with such products from 60 to 100 pieces. And these are only carriers, and they can (according to the standard) make up to 12-16 sorties per day (every hour and a half), of course, with a change of crews ...
No one, of course, will not be able to withstand such a regime, but even two or three sorties of such a regiment (20-24 sides) with special-purpose products can destroy the entire infrastructure of a strong medium-sized state.
One regiment.
And as such a carrier, the MiG-31 will be able to serve for a long time, and with great benefit to the Fatherland.
And this - the Krasnoyarsk base, will be essentially a reserve. A kind of regiment of operational-strategic reserve and quick response.
And the other bases are completely forward-based: Kola, Kamchatka, Ciscaucasia.
MiG-31 equipment in the carrier of such weapons is a completely brilliant idea.

Do you really think that flying on an Mig-31 for 8 thousand kilometers is a common task?
But about 3-4 thousand kilometers from Kansk to the proposed starting point ...
Is the MiG-31 a bomber for you?
Do you understand that there is iron sharpened for long-term operation, but there is for short-term?
What are the regulations ...
Cheetahs do not know how to run for a long time, and camels go for weeks.
Do you understand this example?

And where did the topic about the Special BCH come from?
Is this a new mod or what?
To invent something that is not and truly believe in it.
START-1 \ 2 \ 3 treaty - do you think they mean nothing? Well, read how to control movements, storage, training, and the location of training centers and bases.
Very interesting document.
Fools are very uncomfortable, because they tear off all their bonnets at once ...

[Romario_Argo]

simpler
Migi with Daggers to transfer from Krasnoyarsk to the threatened direction than to escalate tensions where this is not needed yet

[Romario_Argo]

meant the relocation of Migov in the threatened period of time to the threatened direction
in what quantity, for how long, with what BC, against what goals - GENA and without us will understand (!)

[Andrey.AN]

Threats also do not instantly increase. AUGs are not very nimble.

[KVK1]

by 2024 (yes with a shift to the right) and there may appear

[bayard]

What are the shifts? The industry produces 20 MiG-31 per year from modernization. Stable And the equipment on the MiG-31K is much more modest than on the interceptor - he has nothing to do with such a radar, here the plane is only a launch platform. So everything will be fast and efficient.

[Imperial Technocrat]

_____ of Mongolia

[YOUR]

Take a pair of compasses on the map; set aside a radius of 2500 km, this is to the maximum. Any aircraft carrier falling into this circle will be destroyed :-)

[Kalmar]

Quote: YOUR

Any aircraft carrier falling into this circle will be destroyed :-)

So you taught the "Dagger" to hit moving targets? I have not found any intelligible information on this matter. Only in one source did they broadcast something about the defeat of naval targets at bases (i.e. standing ones), but this is already a fool.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Kalmar

Quote: YOUR

Any aircraft carrier falling into this circle will be destroyed :-)

So you taught the "Dagger" to hit moving targets? I have not found any intelligible information on this matter. Only in one source did they broadcast something about the defeat of naval targets at bases (i.e. standing ones), but this is already a fool.

Well, how so?
For us, for several years, all Uri-patriots voiced the Dagger as the killer of aircraft carriers?
Everything disappeared chtoli?

There’s one of them, in the form of Romario Agro - no longer escalating, but protecting ....

[Operator]

Damn, and the Iskander developers did not know about the impossibility of hitting the AV when they screwed the radar / optoelectronic seeker to the rocket and equipped it with a megaton warhead

[Kalmar]

Quote: Operator

Damn, and the Iskander developers did not know about the impossibility of hitting the AV when they screwed the radar / optoelectronic seeker to the rocket and equipped it with a megaton warhead

They didn't know a lot of things. Let's say that Iskander has a radar seeker. Or that the existing optical seeker, by virtue of the very principle of its operation, can be directed to something moving. About the megaton warhead, too, have not heard.

[Mestny]

Quote: SovAr238A

Well, how so?
For us, for several years, all Uri-patriots voiced the Dagger as the killer of aircraft carriers?
Everything disappeared chtoli?

You urya traitors are so funny. Really funny.
You invent yourself, then you go round dance yourself.
And we are pleased that everything undermines.
The more disgusting and louder your dances are, the more right way we go.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Mestny

[
The more disgusting and louder your dances are, the more right way we go.

What are you doing?
That's what you change shoes on the fly ...
The right road has long been gone, along with Brezhnev and Gorbachev, such a slogan has ended! And you continue as an ass according to the training manual of Zampolitovskaya ...

[Hammer]

Quote: Kalmar

So you taught the "Dagger" to hit moving targets?

Do you think that a missile with a nuclear warhead needs an accurate hit on the deck in order to disable it?

[Kalmar]

Quote: Hammer

Do you think that a missile with a nuclear warhead needs an accurate hit on the deck in order to disable it?

How long does it take "Dagger" to fly, say, 1000 km? A few minutes at least. During this time, the aircraft carrier will quietly crawl away for a couple of kilometers, so that the power of a 50kt warhead will no longer be enough to defeat it.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: YOUR

Take a pair of compasses on the map; set aside a radius of 2500 km, this is to the maximum. Any aircraft carrier falling into this circle will be destroyed :-)

thin...

Mongolian steppes - right after all teeming with aircraft carriers .. :)

[Paranoid50]

Quote: SovAr238A

Mongolian steppes - right after all teeming with aircraft carriers .. :)

Yes. A small catapult is mounted on the back of a Bactrian camel to launch drones. Voila.

[askort154]

svp67 ....It remains only to understand who these MiGs will "threaten" with their "Daggers" from the Krasnoyarsk Territory.

"From here we will threaten" - everyone! To the Northern Sea Route 1500 km, to the Southern neighbor the same. The Sea of ​​Okhotsk is 2500 km away. If you add the range of the "Dagger", then everything turns out well. And the home base is far from the borders, not so vulnerable. Guesses aloud, but the truth in the General Staff of the MO.

[Stalllker]

We still have worse military units in the Krasnoyarsk Territory !!! In the form of military depots of the Pacific Fleet ... So better not try to understand

[edmed]

Quote: Stalllker

In the form of military depots of the Pacific Fleet ..

You have outdated data, CA Pacific Fleet displayed, where, military secret

[Stalllker]

It will be withdrawn for another hundred years, but while the marines guard it

[4ekist]

Maybe in the Krasnodar Territory?

[Pavel57]

First to the Krasnoyarsk Territory, and the airfield jump on the Kuril Islands.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Pavel57

First to the Krasnoyarsk Territory, and the airfield jump on the Kuril Islands.

How many chances does the airfield on the Kuril Islands survive a healthy and healthy salvo from the adversary?

Rather, there will not even be a salvo, a couple of units of the naval special forces to capture and our airport will no longer be ...

[Stalllker]

Therefore, they are based in the Krasnoyarsk Territory

[Stalllker]

Yes, there are enough highways with a couple of fuel trucks

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Stalllker

Yes, there are enough highways with a couple of fuel trucks

For the MiG-31?
right here is any piece?
Have you ever seen airfield equipment?
To provide aircraft maintenance ...
Missile suspension and delivery than you will do?
And you can write a million such questions ...

[Stalllker]

I’m talking about refueling, and for this, there are enough routes and fuel trucks

[Ka-52]

Each time reading similar news, either about the manufacture of the Mace and Sarmat on Krasmash, or about the arming of the Kansk regiment with Daggers, the thought comes that the Americans will not regret nuclear warheads in my hometown of Krasnoyarsk

[gost2012]

Quote: Ka-52

Each time reading similar news, either about the manufacture of the Mace and Sarmat on Krasmash, or about the arming of the Kansk regiment with Daggers, the thought comes that the Americans will not regret nuclear warheads in my hometown of Krasnoyarsk

so move before it's too late

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: Gost2012

Quote: Ka-52

Each time reading similar news, either about the manufacture of the Mace and Sarmat on Krasmash, or about the arming of the Kansk regiment with Daggers, the thought comes that the Americans will not regret nuclear warheads in my hometown of Krasnoyarsk

so move before it's too late

To Sevastopol or Kaliningrad!

[Wedmak]

This also means that someone will get fewer of them.

[yaros]

C'mon, I have a 5-minute walk from the Admiralty Shipyards, where they make submarines, and a little farther the main headquarters of the Navy, we don’t have time to run further to the metro, and the time for the rockets and aircraft to arrive from Estonia is 10min .... And they ask who will be bombed first ?

[igorspb]

Estonia?)))

[Paranoid50]

Quote: yaros

C'mon, I have a 5 min walk Admiralty Shipyards,

In a 30-minute walk - "Baltic Plant", in a 30-minute drive - "Severnaya Verf", an hour drive - "Almaz-Antey" ....

Quote: yaros

we’ll not have time to run further to the metro,

Come on, to "Narvskaya" - 15 minutes of running at an average pace (if there are legs).
And generally speaking:
No need to fear nuclear war. Let half of humanity perish, but the rest will live under communism.
Mao Tse Dong

[Mestny]

Quote: Paranoid50

No need to fear nuclear war. Let half of humanity perish, but the rest will live under communism.
Mao Tse Dong

All the same, the leader will have to unfasten part of the extracted hides, meat, stone axes, and other products of production.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Mestny

All the same, the leader will have to unfasten

However, a progressive tax.

[carstorm 11]

there are many such cities in the country) all the goals have been marked for a long time. all suicide cities in case of war. the only way out is moving to the taiga for permanent residence). it's like my native Khabarovsk. all the headquarters gathered in it from the military district to the National Guard and the Ministry of Internal Affairs) all in the city center))))

[Sergey Averchenkov]

Are you also a Krasnoyarsk man? I am glad. :)

[Lekz]

Can you move, for example, to Washington? They don’t make rockets and daggers are based there.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Ka-52

Each time reading similar news, either about the manufacture of the Mace and Sarmat on Krasmash, or about the arming of the Kansk regiment with Daggers, the thought comes that the Americans will not regret nuclear warheads in my hometown of Krasnoyarsk

In Soviet times, as a child, I had a chance to live in Kuibyshev (Samara) for several years. Just at the time when the newspapers published the American plan for the nuclear bombing of the USSR (I don’t remember which account) with a list of cities in the order of strikes.

There was confidence that nothing really threatened us - the hope for our own Army was born before me.

There was children's pride - they still appreciate it - in the top ten!

There was a childish resentment - why not the third after Moscow and Leningrad, or the 5th or the 7th .... Do not appreciate it?

Grew up, wiser, served, worked. I get it.
Nothing, defend Krasnoyarsk ... Like any other city.

[Stalllker]

And one warhead is enough, our city is compact

[Imperial Technocrat]

as a carrier of a hypersonic missile, which is an aviation version of the Iskander-M OTRK missile.

The dagger is not a complete copy of Iskander suspended on an airplane. Built on the base, but has improvements

[Warrior MorePhoto]

Quote: svp67

It remains only to understand who these MiGs will "threaten" with their "Daggers" from the Krasnoyarsk Territory ...

Yes, it would be more logical to go to the Baltic or Kamchatka, but most likely the MiGs there carry out the direct task of interception, and in Krasnoyarsk it is like a jump to the south, west, east or to the NSR

[Lekz]

It is a reasonable decision. And there is no direct threat of defeat, and NATO is not aroused, and the southern neighbor is calm, and there is an opportunity for two hours to be in the right place.

[moreman78]

That is, the Kansk regiment will cease to be a fighter. Remarkably, there is such a hole in the air defense - there will not be a single destroyer between Domnaya and Perm Falcon! They used to shoot for it.

[SovAr238A]

Why in the very center of the country, at a distance of 3-4 thousand kilometers from the coast - are the killers of aircraft carriers ...
??

[ficus2003]

"At the end of November this year, the Ministry of Defense reported"
This 2019 copy-paste article?

[Old26]

Quote: svp67

It remains only to understand who these MiGs will "threaten" with their "Daggers" from the Krasnoyarsk Territory ...

Sergei! The exact same question. Clearly Monchegorsk and Yelizovo. It is clear if there was a Krasnodar Territory. But Kansk .... About 3000 km to Primorye ...

Quote: Romario_Argo

simpler
Migi with Daggers to transfer from Krasnoyarsk to the threatened direction than to escalate tensions where this is not needed yet

At one time, while studying at the institute in Novocherkassk, he lived for some time in a private apartment. and so the landlady in such cases said that it was something like "Go to Gorlovka through Riga" ...
So the regiment in Yelizovo and in Monchegorsk will not escalate tensions? But a third regiment, in order not to escalate tension, should be planted in Kansk ... Wisely, very wisely. And then it will be necessary to provide another transfer in the right direction ...

Quote: Pavel57

First to the Krasnoyarsk Territory, and the airfield jump on the Kuril Islands.

But Yelizovsky regiment is not suitable for this? Do you need to make a jump airfield 4000 km from the airfield based ???

[Operator]

The upgraded MiG-31BSM is a universal missile carrier, and not only part of the Kinzhal air missile system.

Missile-carrying MiGs serve as carriers of aeroballistic missiles, ultra-long-range airborne explosives, space rockets and anti-satellite missiles. In order to use the latest MiG-31BSM are located in Kansk.

[kit88]

You said either too much or too little.
That is, you want to say that there is no specialized MiG-31K, but there is a universal MiG-31BSM.
If you believe open sources, then in Kansk there are only 4 pieces of BSM, the rest are BM, unlike, say, Bolshoi Savino, where the entire regiment is modified BSM.

[Dikson]

I see here such experts in aviation have gathered with curvimeters .. they measure by isobaths and meridians .. The official location for these machines still does not say anything .. Kansk is not quite Krasnoyarsk .. As well as Alykel is not an island Sredny .. Krasnoyarsk Territory - this is not Kaliningrad or Voronezh .. The territory is huge, look at the map .. Cape Chelyuskin, Novaya Zemlya, islands in the Arctic Ocean - this is also the Krasnoyarsk Territory ... Therefore, you draw your radii of 2,5 thousand km with compasses not from Krasnoyarsk, and from the Severnaya Zemlya archipelago at least .. and there is literally the North Pole across the road .. so there is where to throw "Daggers" ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Dikson

I see here such experts in aviation have gathered with curvimeters .. they measure by isobaths and meridians .. The official location for these machines still does not say anything .. Kansk is not quite Krasnoyarsk .. As well as Alykel is not an island Sredny .. Krasnoyarsk Territory - this is not Kaliningrad or Voronezh .. The territory is huge, look at the map .. Cape Chelyuskin, Novaya Zemlya, islands in the Arctic Ocean - this is also the Krasnoyarsk Territory ... Therefore, you draw your radii of 2,5 thousand km with compasses not from Krasnoyarsk, and from the Severnaya Zemlya archipelago at least .. and there is literally the North Pole across the road .. so there is where to throw "Daggers" ...

Before you smartly carry nonsense, look at where the Mig-31 aircraft station is located - the town of Kansk, in the suburb of which is the village of Checheul. There is the airfield Dalniy (Kansk).
And then, if you have something to understand - measure ...