In the PRC: Su-57 technologies could help China to develop a 6th generation aircraft

The Chinese media once again raised the question of the likely procurement of the fifth-generation Russian fighter Su-57. Recall that earlier in China they asked about the possibility of buying a limited batch of these fighters “for the study of technology”.

Of particular interest in China are the engine technologies for this fighter. And in China they do not hide the fact that they expect the appearance of the Su-57, equipped with engines of the so-called second stage, which will significantly expand the range of capabilities of a combat aircraft.

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From a statement in the Chinese media:

The likelihood of acquiring a Su-57 for China is very high. Su-57 technologies could help in the development of the aircraft of the 6th generation.

Wang Yongqin:

For the development of its own aviation, it is necessary to study the best world experience and not to close exclusively on aviation facilities created within the country.

At the same time, China reminds us that Russia is already working on an export version of the 5th generation fighter, but has not yet delivered the Su-57 to its own airborne forces.

Comments

[Starover_Z]

that earlier in China they asked about the possibility of buying a limited batch of these fighters “for the study of technology”.

They don't even hide their intentions anymore! And is it worth them to sell a "limited batch" ?!

[Astartes]

P. and co. hucksters and enemies of the people, they are ready to sell everything

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Starover_Z

They don't even hide their intentions anymore! And is it worth them to sell a "limited batch" ?!

But what to hide? To create the best Chinese weapon in the world, you need to shout at everyone and yell that you yourself have come up with and squealing with a piggy squeal if everyone laughs.

[Butchcassidy]

Quote: Starover_Z

They don't even hide their intentions anymore! And is it worth them to sell a "limited batch" ?!

Nobody will sell them a limited batch.

[Skubudu]

China is only interested in radars and second-stage engines from the SU-57. But if they only request engines and radars, they are unlikely to be sold separately, so you have to buy a whole plane and most likely not one.

[svp67]

Of particular interest in China are the engine technologies for this fighter.

This is apparently the only thing that the Chinese really need ...

The likelihood of acquiring a Su-57 for China is very high. Su-57 technologies could help in the development of the aircraft of the 6th generation.

If we do this and do it simply for CURRENCY, then it will be a huge stupidity on our part. If we deliver these aircraft to China, then only on a parity basis, with the simultaneous delivery of their stealth aircraft to us, both J-20 and J-31

[cniza]

I really hope that it’s enough for the brain not to do this ...

[Invoce]

Quote: svp67

Of particular interest in China are the engine technologies for this fighter.

This is apparently the only thing that the Chinese really need ...

The likelihood of acquiring a Su-57 for China is very high. Su-57 technologies could help in the development of the aircraft of the 6th generation.

If we do this and do it simply for CURRENCY, then this will be a huge stupidity on our part. If we deliver these aircraft to China, then only on a parity basis, with the simultaneous delivery of their stealth aircraft to us, both J-20 and J-31

Why buy something that is not a matter of interest?
Any, at all times, the development of technological progress went somehow parallel in countries with equal economic indicators, or amounts allocated for R&D ... China will definitely go the same way, because they copy all the most advanced, and their development of industry is higher, not to mention investing in science, education ... + human resources ... BUT, we will have to go our own way to production technologies. Selling export, limited quantities of aircraft will not give direct advantages when creating your own aircraft. This has already happened more than once. Deck fighters from China did not work. Aircraft engine production went its own way (by the way, each state has its own selection criteria for production of AT. Someone has a resource and fault tolerance, others have maximum thrust and other characteristics, others have weight reduction (specific weight ratio) ...)
So let competent people decide and admitted to the conclusion of agreements on the supply of weapons outside the Russian Federation, and not "forum, sofa" experts!

[spectr]

And anything can be. Imagine this picture. You put together a team that was able to develop advanced technology. And then they say to you: "Cool, but we changed our minds and we don't need it! That is enough for the eyes." And the question arises, what to do with people? We need to disperse this team, since they have nothing to pay with. And then someone dumped in with the words: "Sell! And if you also explain how it works, then 10 times more we will ditch for consultations!"
You can make a proud appearance and refuse, only then the people from the team will start to scatter and this someone can offer these people to work with them. And you can sell samples, understanding that part of the development is leaking. But at the same time keep people who can continue to work and develop something else interesting.
And this is the squandering of human resources when specialists are on the sidelines and are not needed by their country.

[Cryvedco]

No, here the question should not be - why, or rather, even WHAT there is no money for people who should not scatter?

[spectr]

This is a fee for a small (relatively small) military budget of the Russian Federation. Constantly holding top-notch specialists is expensive. And so, they either live on export, or simply threw off the balance.

[Cryvedco]

We have on our balance sheet many worthy gentlemen who should be thrown off. And it’s not worth it to pay from the budget, unless of course we want to completely drain the polymers

[Invoce]

This time, I hope, has already passed. There are design bureaus, institutes engaged in research and development work. The state allocates funds for this. The return on these works may be 0, or it may "shoot" in 4-5 years or in a longer period 100-1000 times more than was spent ...
There are organizations with private capital (RTI JSC, for example) there is a lot of turnover, they recruit "donkeys" for a specific project, then they are fired ... but people go, knowing for what period they are employed ..

[spectr]

This time, I hope, has already passed. There are design bureaus, institutes engaged in scientific research and experimental design work.

The main peak has passed. But now, in some directions, agony is observed (somewhere, like space, explicit, somewhere hidden, and will probably be visible in 10 to 20 years). Naturally, they try to hide it and fill up the problematic direction with money in order to try to pull it out. But so far, in fact, it turns out that upon completion of the deadlines, they open a theft case, they plant someone, and transfer the work to another executor.

[Voyager]

Do we need their "stealth"?

[Invoce]

Quote: Voyager

Do we need their "stealth"?

that's what I'm talking about! What for the fact that you will not be able to exploit and you will not have anything new? For example, Serdyukov bought armored vehicles "Lynx" from IVEKO. Usefulness to the state 0 - only those who were involved in the procurement had something, but then let the FSB and the Investigative Committee deal with

[Piramidon]

Quote: svp67

If we deliver these aircraft to China, then only on a parity basis, with the simultaneous delivery of their stealth aircraft to us, both J-20 and J-31

Do we need them? They they make copies, and we will have to make copies of these copies? Absurd.

[Mytholog]

Already, damn it, they do not even hide: it is needed only as a model of technology.
"Honest" thieves.

[cniza]

And why should they be shy, no one has ever made claims ...

[svp67]

Quote: cniza

And why should they be shy, no one has ever made claims ...

Why, they presented it ... only for the Chinese all this is like "water for a goose." Only now the Americans were able to grab them and even then, having arrested their top manager in America. We will definitely not go to this on our territory now

[cniza]

I don’t want to be clever, but during the sale you can stipulate a lot of things, correctly register what would work like an automaton, for example, Kalashnikov, because we can if you want to.

[svp67]

Quote: cniza

because we can if you want to.

Well, here it is necessary for someone to try very hard, so that those who are responsible for this "strongly wanted", and most importantly, that they and their relatives would be responsible if it suddenly turns out that "not Shmogla, I am not Shmogla ..."

[cniza]

so that those who are responsible for this "strongly wanted", and most importantly, that they and their relatives are responsible

Here it is the salt of the problem , nobody has canceled the article about treason ...

[svp67]

Quote: cniza

nobody has canceled an article about treason ...

Without the material liability of the defendant and his immediate family, for such a blow, it has low efficiency. You yourself understand that money is transferred to relatives and that’s all, it’s already harder to withdraw

[cniza]

I think we need to go on the other side - to find how to attract, but we need the will ...

[cniza]

In the PRC: Su-57 technologies could help China to develop a 6th generation aircraft

No humble words ...

[Professor Preobrazhensky]

How can a 4 +++ aircraft provide technological knowledge for the design of a sixth generation aircraft?

[svp67]

Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky

How can a 4 +++ aircraft provide technological knowledge for the design of a sixth generation aircraft?

Apparently Chinese specialists see in this plane what is hidden from your eyes

[Professor Preobrazhensky]

The Chinese media once again raised the question of the likely procurement of the fifth-generation Russian fighter Su-57

It is possible that the Chinese specialists from the media, indeed something is visible on this plane, unlike me.

[svp67]

Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky

It is possible that the Chinese specialists from the media, indeed something is visible on this plane, unlike me.

You know, I've been living for a long time. I still remember how Westerners laughed at our MiG-29, at its "angular shapes" and capabilities, in relation to their F-16. And how great they changed their minds when, after the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, they managed to test these aircraft, it suddenly turned out that in matters of aerodynamics they are dinosaurs.

[Professor Preobrazhensky]

Well, it’s really hard for me to argue sometimes with stubbornness or ignorance ...
The Chinese media have made your day enjoyable, then make it accepted and I answered only one question.
Please tell me, the Chinese are talking about the sixth generation of a fighter, what kind of beast is this, describe in a nutshell what is it about ???

[svp67]

Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky

The Chinese media have made your day enjoyable, then make it accepted and I answered only one question.

Do you have some kind of "megalomania", why did you decide that "the Chinese media did something to me"? Are you clairvoyant or medium? As far as I remember, Bulgakov's "Professor Preobrazhensky" was a doctor, a surgeon. Did you take a nickname from "Heart of a Dog" or is it really your academic title and surname?

[Professor Preobrazhensky]

I asked you to answer one question that is hidden from my eyes, and you and the Chinese journalists are obvious!
What do you think is so interesting to the Chinese in our aircraft that they are ready to use it in the sixth generation fighter?
DESCRIBE IN TWO WORDS WHAT IS THIS SIXTH GENERATION FIGHTER?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky

What do you think is so interesting to the Chinese in our aircraft that they are ready to use it in the sixth generation fighter?

Engines.

[Professor Preobrazhensky]

Doesn’t it bother you that just because of the lack of engines, we can’t complete our fifth generation fighter?
As it were, the Su-57 will become a fifth-generation fighter only when the engines of the second stage are put on it, and this is about 2025.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky

Doesn’t it bother you that just because of the lack of engines, we can’t complete our fifth generation fighter?
As it were, the Su-57 will become a fifth-generation fighter only when the engines of the second stage are put on it, and this is about 2025.

For the Chinese, the engine of the first stage is the prodigy. Moreover, they have a desire to buy Su-57 with new engines.

[Piramidon]

Quote: svp67

Apparently Chinese specialists see in this plane what is hidden from your eyes

You don't have to be very sighted here. It is clear that they mainly need engines. Everything else their "copier" is already able to reproduce.

[Dzungar]

For those as you are, the term "plane 4 multiplus"

[Professor Preobrazhensky]

At least one person who put me minus, I earnestly ask you, motivate your decision!
Enlighten my ignorance, share your knowledge, tell us about the sixth generation KILLER!
What will he be the destroyer of the sixth generation?
Will there be a chassis or ski? Or maybe a rocket launch and a landing like that of Elon Mask on Falcon?
The glider will be built according to what scheme?
Will there be a manned plane or not?
And I don’t even ask about weapons and engine!
Well, at least tell me something about this plane, so that I can understand what could interest them in the Su-57 for the future?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky

Enlighten my ignorance, share your knowledge, tell us about the sixth generation KILLER!

Why scream like that? You have Google blocked, or what?
Offhand -
https://militaryarms.ru/voennaya-texnika/aviaciya/istrebitel-6-pokoleniya/

[Professor Preobrazhensky]

I read and immediately somehow puzzled me this phrase

Most likely, next-generation fighters will have an unusual layout.

And if most likely?
And if it can be?
Is it possible?

[Piramidon]

Do you need drawings and photographs to lay out an airplane that you have not yet begun to develop?

[rocket757]

In the PRC: Su-57 technologies could help China to develop a 6th generation aircraft

But with the 5th generation, everything is clear ... although, by some understandable, accepted by all criteria ???
Of course, the one who is the first, kind of like "conducts the orchestra", but not everyone agreed with this!
In short, the "cart" has not yet gone as it should, and they are already trying to put it in front of the locomotive ???

[Ros 56]

Sohu, again I don’t hear anything about the great Chinese technology.

[Livonetc]

Buy a product and copy it, it’s not tantamount to receive technology of creation.

[Klingon]

already a whole bunch of articles on this topic.

[Ka-52]

It is a reasonable and pragmatic approach. And without any deception.

just China is not going to buy technology either through localization or something else. A limited batch assumes that part of the equipment will be disassembled by cogs for redrawing in the CM. But as I have already mentioned more than once, in such complex technological equipment as the offal of the 57th, a simple drawing is not enough. And even spectroscopy to determine alloys is not enough. They can speed up the development of some components and parts, but not all

[Ka-52]

Yes, copying a complex mechanism is difficult, if at all possible, but they have already stepped over blind copying.

they can copy the shape of the compressor blades. But the casting method (so that the microroughness value is <0,5 microns, in order to avoid no less difficulties with grinding) and the alloy of the blades themselves (with the appropriate resistance to t, erosion, shock loads and CNM) is whereОthe easiest problem. Without this, one cannot increase t in front of the turbine and gain no increase in thrust. Or increase, but then you kill the resource

[Avior]

Such technology is available on Motor Sich, which the Chinese recently bought.
Called “precision lost wax casting”

[Ka-52]

Such technology is available on Motor Sich, which the Chinese recently bought.
Called “precision lost wax casting”

Lost wax casting technology one hundred years at lunch. But there are different methods, with different results. As far as I know, there is no single-crystal casting technology on the motor.

[Avior]

http://www.motorsich.com/files/778-Godovoy%20otchet%202012.pdf
According to what is written, the issue is on the agenda for a long time
There will be money, the situation will change

[Mentat]

Quote: svp67

If we are to deliver these aircraft to China, then only on a parity basis, with the simultaneous delivery of their stealth aircraft to us, both J-20 and J-31.

What the fuck did they give up, what are you hoping to find there, a top-secret Chinese stealth cover or figures from your favorite anime Chinese pilots? What exactly can interest Russia in there?

[Dizel200]

copy machine again?))) yourself, let’s do it yourself. you have one and a half lard tadpole and arm

[Mr John]

China has a passion for reaching the summit, and this is not a shame.
China wants to control all technologies around the world, either by stealing or copying, the most important thing is to reach the top and go beyond Russia and the United States in industry and development.
Is there a problem? Yes ... China is an aggressive country that wants to dominate industry and technology, export arms and export technologies as well.
You want to be number one in industry, export and control.
Caution is required.

[Ax Matt]

Shuffle around ...!