Military Review

In the PRC: Su-57 technologies could help China to develop a 6th generation aircraft

57

The Chinese media once again raised the question of the likely procurement of the fifth-generation Russian fighter Su-57. Recall that earlier in China they asked about the possibility of buying a limited batch of these fighters “for the study of technology”.


Of particular interest in China are the engine technologies for this fighter. And in China they do not hide the fact that they expect the appearance of the Su-57, equipped with engines of the so-called second stage, which will significantly expand the range of capabilities of a combat aircraft.

КитР° Р№СЃРєРёР№ РІРѕРµРЅРЅС ‹Р№ эксперт Р'Р ° РЅ Р®РЅС † РёРЅСЊ РѕС‚РјРµС З Р ° РµС ‚, С З С‚Рѕ J-20 РљР ° ¶Рµ РЅРµ СЏРІР »СЏРµС‚СЃСЏ единственны Рј РІРѕР · РјРѕР¶РЅС ‹Рј РЅР ° РїСЂР ° вРРеЌииииииииииииииииииииРaviation РЅРѕРІРѕРіРѕ РїРѕРєРѕР »РµРЅРёСЏ. R еР° Р »РёР · уется РїСЂРѕРІСЂР ° РјРјР ° истреР± ител СЏ J-31, РєРѕС‚РѕСЂС ‹Р№ В“ Р · Р ° С‚РѕС ‡ еР° Р ° Р »СѓР ± РЅСѓСЋ версию РґР» СЏ СЃС‚СЂРѕСЏС ‰ РёС ... СЃСЏ Рё Р · Р ° РїР »Р ° РЅРёСЂРѕРІР ° РЅРЅС‹ С ... Рє РІРѕСЃС‚СкеР° Р ... ев (РЅР ° С ‡ РёРЅР ° СЏ СЃ Type 003), тР° кже СЂР ° СЃСЃРјР ° тривР° ются СЂР ° Р · СЂР ° Р ± отки Р · Р ° СЂСѓР ± ¶РЅС ‹С ... предприятий.

From a statement in the Chinese media:

The likelihood of acquiring a Su-57 for China is very high. Su-57 technologies could help in the development of the aircraft of the 6th generation.

Wang Yongqin:

For the development of its own aviation, it is necessary to study the best world experience and not to close exclusively on aviation facilities created within the country.

At the same time, China reminds us that Russia is already working on an export version of the 5th generation fighter, but has not yet delivered the Su-57 to its own airborne forces.
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  1. Starover_Z
    Starover_Z 26 February 2020 08: 48 New
    11
    that earlier in China they asked about the possibility of buying a limited batch of these fighters “for the study of technology”.

    They don't even hide their intentions anymore! And is it worth them to sell a "limited batch" ?!
    1. Astartes
      Astartes 26 February 2020 10: 21 New
      -4
      P. and co. hucksters and enemies of the people, they are ready to sell everything
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 26 February 2020 10: 44 New
      +4
      Quote: Starover_Z
      They don't even hide their intentions anymore! And is it worth them to sell a "limited batch" ?!
      But what to hide? To create the best Chinese weapon in the world, you need to shout at everyone and yell that you yourself have come up with and squealing with a piggy squeal if everyone laughs. request
    3. Butchcassidy
      Butchcassidy 26 February 2020 11: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: Starover_Z
      They don't even hide their intentions anymore! And is it worth them to sell a "limited batch" ?!

      Nobody will sell them a limited batch.
    4. Skubudu
      Skubudu 26 February 2020 11: 15 New
      -3
      China is only interested in radars and second-stage engines from the SU-57. But if they only request engines and radars, they are unlikely to be sold separately, so you have to buy a whole plane and most likely not one.
  2. svp67
    svp67 26 February 2020 08: 49 New
    +1
    Of particular interest in China are the engine technologies for this fighter.
    This is apparently the only thing that the Chinese really need ...
    The likelihood of acquiring a Su-57 for China is very high. Su-57 technologies could help in the development of the aircraft of the 6th generation.
    If we do this and do it simply for CURRENCY, then it will be a huge stupidity on our part. If we deliver these aircraft to China, then only on a parity basis, with the simultaneous delivery of their stealth aircraft to us, both J-20 and J-31
    1. cniza
      cniza 26 February 2020 08: 54 New
      +7
      I really hope that it’s enough for the brain not to do this ...
    2. Invoce
      Invoce 26 February 2020 09: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      Of particular interest in China are the engine technologies for this fighter.
      This is apparently the only thing that the Chinese really need ...
      The likelihood of acquiring a Su-57 for China is very high. Su-57 technologies could help in the development of the aircraft of the 6th generation.
      If we do this and do it simply for CURRENCY, then this will be a huge stupidity on our part. If we deliver these aircraft to China, then only on a parity basis, with the simultaneous delivery of their stealth aircraft to us, both J-20 and J-31
      laughing
      Why buy something that is not a matter of interest? laughing
      Any, at all times, the development of technological progress went somehow parallel in countries with equal economic indicators, or amounts allocated for R&D ... China will definitely go the same way, because they copy all the most advanced, and their development of industry is higher, not to mention investing in science, education ... + human resources ... BUT, we will have to go our own way to production technologies. Selling export, limited quantities of aircraft will not give direct advantages when creating your own aircraft. This has already happened more than once. Deck fighters from China did not work. Aircraft engine production went its own way (by the way, each state has its own selection criteria for production of AT. Someone has a resource and fault tolerance, others have maximum thrust and other characteristics, others have weight reduction (specific weight ratio) ...)
      So let competent people decide laughing and admitted to the conclusion of agreements on the supply of weapons outside the Russian Federation, and not "forum, sofa" experts! bully
    3. spectr
      spectr 26 February 2020 09: 53 New
      +3
      And anything can be. Imagine this picture. You put together a team that was able to develop advanced technology. And then they say to you: "Cool, but we changed our minds and we don't need it! That is enough for the eyes." And the question arises, what to do with people? We need to disperse this team, since they have nothing to pay with. And then someone dumped in with the words: "Sell! And if you also explain how it works, then 10 times more we will ditch for consultations!"
      You can make a proud appearance and refuse, only then the people from the team will start to scatter and this someone can offer these people to work with them. And you can sell samples, understanding that part of the development is leaking. But at the same time keep people who can continue to work and develop something else interesting.
      And this is the squandering of human resources when specialists are on the sidelines and are not needed by their country.
      1. Cryvedco
        Cryvedco 26 February 2020 10: 08 New
        0
        No, here the question should not be - why, or rather, even WHAT there is no money for people who should not scatter?
        1. spectr
          spectr 26 February 2020 17: 43 New
          0
          This is a fee for a small (relatively small) military budget of the Russian Federation. Constantly holding top-notch specialists is expensive. And so, they either live on export, or simply threw off the balance.
          1. Cryvedco
            Cryvedco 26 February 2020 18: 43 New
            0
            We have on our balance sheet many worthy gentlemen who should be thrown off. And it’s not worth it to pay from the budget, unless of course we want to completely drain the polymers
      2. Invoce
        Invoce 26 February 2020 10: 13 New
        0
        This time, I hope, has already passed. There are design bureaus, institutes engaged in research and development work. The state allocates funds for this. The return on these works may be 0, or it may "shoot" in 4-5 years or in a longer period 100-1000 times more than was spent ...
        There are organizations with private capital (RTI JSC, for example) there is a lot of turnover, they recruit "donkeys" for a specific project, then they are fired ... but people go, knowing for what period they are employed ..
        1. spectr
          spectr 26 February 2020 17: 38 New
          0
          This time, I hope, has already passed. There are design bureaus, institutes engaged in scientific research and experimental design work.

          The main peak has passed. But now, in some directions, agony is observed (somewhere, like space, explicit, somewhere hidden, and will probably be visible in 10 to 20 years). Naturally, they try to hide it and fill up the problematic direction with money in order to try to pull it out. But so far, in fact, it turns out that upon completion of the deadlines, they open a theft case, they plant someone, and transfer the work to another executor.
    4. Voyager
      Voyager 26 February 2020 09: 56 New
      +2
      Do we need their "stealth"?
      1. Invoce
        Invoce 26 February 2020 10: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: Voyager
        Do we need their "stealth"?

        laughing good that's what I'm talking about! What for the fact that you will not be able to exploit and you will not have anything new? For example, Serdyukov bought armored vehicles "Lynx" from IVEKO. Usefulness to the state 0 - only those who were involved in the procurement had something, but then let the FSB and the Investigative Committee deal with
    5. Piramidon
      Piramidon 26 February 2020 10: 13 New
      -1
      Quote: svp67
      If we deliver these aircraft to China, then only on a parity basis, with the simultaneous delivery of their stealth aircraft to us, both J-20 and J-31

      Do we need them? They they make copies, and we will have to make copies of these copies? Absurd.
  3. Mytholog
    Mytholog 26 February 2020 08: 51 New
    +7
    Already, damn it, they do not even hide: it is needed only as a model of technology.
    "Honest" thieves.
    1. cniza
      cniza 26 February 2020 08: 53 New
      +3
      And why should they be shy, no one has ever made claims ...
      1. svp67
        svp67 26 February 2020 08: 57 New
        +2
        Quote: cniza
        And why should they be shy, no one has ever made claims ...

        Why, they presented it ... only for the Chinese all this is like "water for a goose." Only now the Americans were able to grab them and even then, having arrested their top manager in America. We will definitely not go to this on our territory now
        1. cniza
          cniza 26 February 2020 09: 06 New
          +4
          I don’t want to be clever, but during the sale you can stipulate a lot of things, correctly register what would work like an automaton, for example, Kalashnikov, because we can if you want to.
          1. svp67
            svp67 26 February 2020 09: 10 New
            0
            Quote: cniza
            because we can if you want to.

            Well, here it is necessary for someone to try very hard, so that those who are responsible for this "strongly wanted", and most importantly, that they and their relatives would be responsible if it suddenly turns out that "not Shmogla, I am not Shmogla ..."
            1. cniza
              cniza 26 February 2020 09: 12 New
              +2
              so that those who are responsible for this "strongly wanted", and most importantly, that they and their relatives are responsible


              Here it is the salt of the problem yes , nobody has canceled the article about treason ...
              1. svp67
                svp67 26 February 2020 09: 26 New
                0
                Quote: cniza
                nobody has canceled an article about treason ...

                Without the material liability of the defendant and his immediate family, for such a blow, it has low efficiency. You yourself understand that money is transferred to relatives and that’s all, it’s already harder to withdraw
                1. cniza
                  cniza 26 February 2020 09: 28 New
                  +1
                  I think we need to go on the other side - to find how to attract, but we need the will ...
  4. cniza
    cniza 26 February 2020 08: 51 New
    +2
    In the PRC: Su-57 technologies could help China to develop a 6th generation aircraft


    No humble words ...
  5. Professor Preobrazhensky
    Professor Preobrazhensky 26 February 2020 08: 52 New
    -12
    How can a 4 +++ aircraft provide technological knowledge for the design of a sixth generation aircraft?
    1. svp67
      svp67 26 February 2020 08: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky
      How can a 4 +++ aircraft provide technological knowledge for the design of a sixth generation aircraft?

      Apparently Chinese specialists see in this plane what is hidden from your eyes
      1. Professor Preobrazhensky
        Professor Preobrazhensky 26 February 2020 09: 14 New
        -8
        The Chinese media once again raised the question of the likely procurement of the fifth-generation Russian fighter Su-57

        It is possible that the Chinese specialists from the media, indeed something is visible on this plane, unlike me.
        1. svp67
          svp67 26 February 2020 09: 37 New
          +1
          Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky
          It is possible that the Chinese specialists from the media, indeed something is visible on this plane, unlike me.

          You know, I've been living for a long time. I still remember how Westerners laughed at our MiG-29, at its "angular shapes" and capabilities, in relation to their F-16. And how great they changed their minds when, after the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, they managed to test these aircraft, it suddenly turned out that in matters of aerodynamics they are dinosaurs.
          1. Professor Preobrazhensky
            Professor Preobrazhensky 26 February 2020 09: 46 New
            -6
            Well, it’s really hard for me to argue sometimes with stubbornness or ignorance ...
            The Chinese media have made your day enjoyable, then make it accepted and I answered only one question.
            Please tell me, the Chinese are talking about the sixth generation of a fighter, what kind of beast is this, describe in a nutshell what is it about ???
            1. svp67
              svp67 26 February 2020 09: 49 New
              -2
              Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky
              The Chinese media have made your day enjoyable, then make it accepted and I answered only one question.

              Do you have some kind of "megalomania", why did you decide that "the Chinese media did something to me"? Are you clairvoyant or medium? As far as I remember, Bulgakov's "Professor Preobrazhensky" was a doctor, a surgeon. Did you take a nickname from "Heart of a Dog" or is it really your academic title and surname?
              1. Professor Preobrazhensky
                Professor Preobrazhensky 26 February 2020 09: 56 New
                -2
                I asked you to answer one question that is hidden from my eyes, and you and the Chinese journalists are obvious!
                What do you think is so interesting to the Chinese in our aircraft that they are ready to use it in the sixth generation fighter?
                DESCRIBE IN TWO WORDS WHAT IS THIS SIXTH GENERATION FIGHTER?
                1. Piramidon
                  Piramidon 26 February 2020 13: 19 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky
                  What do you think is so interesting to the Chinese in our aircraft that they are ready to use it in the sixth generation fighter?

                  Engines.
                  1. Professor Preobrazhensky
                    Professor Preobrazhensky 26 February 2020 13: 40 New
                    -1
                    Doesn’t it bother you that just because of the lack of engines, we can’t complete our fifth generation fighter?
                    As it were, the Su-57 will become a fifth-generation fighter only when the engines of the second stage are put on it, and this is about 2025.
                    1. Piramidon
                      Piramidon 26 February 2020 13: 43 New
                      0
                      Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky
                      Doesn’t it bother you that just because of the lack of engines, we can’t complete our fifth generation fighter?
                      As it were, the Su-57 will become a fifth-generation fighter only when the engines of the second stage are put on it, and this is about 2025.

                      For the Chinese, the engine of the first stage is the prodigy. Moreover, they have a desire to buy Su-57 with new engines.
      2. Piramidon
        Piramidon 26 February 2020 12: 49 New
        -2
        Quote: svp67
        Apparently Chinese specialists see in this plane what is hidden from your eyes

        You don't have to be very sighted here. It is clear that they mainly need engines. Everything else their "copier" is already able to reproduce.
    2. Dzungar
      Dzungar 26 February 2020 09: 51 New
      0
      For those as you are, the term "plane 4 multiplus"
    3. Professor Preobrazhensky
      Professor Preobrazhensky 26 February 2020 10: 23 New
      -1
      At least one person who put me minus, I earnestly ask you, motivate your decision!
      Enlighten my ignorance, share your knowledge, tell us about the sixth generation KILLER!
      What will he be the destroyer of the sixth generation?
      Will there be a chassis or ski? Or maybe a rocket launch and a landing like that of Elon Mask on Falcon?
      The glider will be built according to what scheme?
      Will there be a manned plane or not?
      And I don’t even ask about weapons and engine!
      Well, at least tell me something about this plane, so that I can understand what could interest them in the Su-57 for the future?
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 26 February 2020 13: 15 New
        -1
        Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky
        Enlighten my ignorance, share your knowledge, tell us about the sixth generation KILLER!

        Why scream like that? You have Google blocked, or what?
        Offhand -
        https://militaryarms.ru/voennaya-texnika/aviaciya/istrebitel-6-pokoleniya/
        1. Professor Preobrazhensky
          Professor Preobrazhensky 26 February 2020 13: 45 New
          -1
          I read and immediately somehow puzzled me this phrase
          Most likely, next-generation fighters will have an unusual layout.

          And if most likely?
          And if it can be?
          Is it possible?
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 26 February 2020 14: 24 New
            -1
            Do you need drawings and photographs to lay out an airplane that you have not yet begun to develop? request
  6. rocket757
    rocket757 26 February 2020 09: 05 New
    -1
    In the PRC: Su-57 technologies could help China to develop a 6th generation aircraft

    But with the 5th generation, everything is clear ... although, by some understandable, accepted by all criteria ???
    Of course, the one who is the first, kind of like "conducts the orchestra", but not everyone agreed with this!
    In short, the "cart" has not yet gone as it should, and they are already trying to put it in front of the locomotive ???
  7. Ros 56
    Ros 56 26 February 2020 09: 17 New
    +2
    Sohu, again I don’t hear anything about the great Chinese technology.
  8. Livonetc
    Livonetc 26 February 2020 09: 24 New
    +2
    Buy a product and copy it, it’s not tantamount to receive technology of creation.
  9. Klingon
    Klingon 26 February 2020 09: 27 New
    0
    already a whole bunch of articles on this topic.
  10. rudolff
    rudolff 26 February 2020 09: 28 New
    +2
    It is a reasonable and pragmatic approach. And without any deception. We do not need the final product, but technologies that would do our own on their basis. What is bad?
    As with MTU engines. They have the opportunity to acquire German engines, but they preferred to buy a license, localize production at home and develop a whole line of their own engines based on German technology. They are bad or good, but they are their own. And we preferred to stupidly buy the finished product and sat in a puddle.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 26 February 2020 09: 35 New
      +4
      It is a reasonable and pragmatic approach. And without any deception.

      just China is not going to buy technology either through localization or something else. A limited batch assumes that part of the equipment will be disassembled by cogs for redrawing in the CM. But as I have already mentioned more than once, in such complex technological equipment as the offal of the 57th, a simple drawing is not enough. And even spectroscopy to determine alloys is not enough. They can speed up the development of some components and parts, but not all
      1. rudolff
        rudolff 26 February 2020 09: 51 New
        0
        If they want to buy several cars in order to disassemble them and understand how they work, this is actually an indirect purchase of technology. They are aware that they cannot acquire fifth-generation aircraft technology in any other way. Yes, copying a complex mechanism is difficult, if at all possible, but they have already stepped over blind copying.
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 26 February 2020 10: 06 New
          0
          Yes, copying a complex mechanism is difficult, if at all possible, but they have already stepped over blind copying.

          they can copy the shape of the compressor blades. But the casting method (so that the microroughness value is <0,5 microns, in order to avoid no less difficulties with grinding) and the alloy of the blades themselves (with the appropriate resistance to t, erosion, shock loads and CNM) is whereОthe easiest problem. Without this, one cannot increase t in front of the turbine and gain no increase in thrust. Or increase, but then you kill the resource
          1. Avior
            Avior 26 February 2020 11: 00 New
            0
            Such technology is available on Motor Sich, which the Chinese recently bought.
            Called “precision lost wax casting”
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 26 February 2020 12: 07 New
              +1
              Such technology is available on Motor Sich, which the Chinese recently bought.
              Called “precision lost wax casting”

              Lost wax casting technology one hundred years at lunch. But there are different methods, with different results. As far as I know, there is no single-crystal casting technology on the motor.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Avior
                Avior 26 February 2020 15: 32 New
                -1
                http://www.motorsich.com/files/778-Godovoy%20otchet%202012.pdf
                According to what is written, the issue is on the agenda for a long time
                There will be money, the situation will change
  11. Mentat
    Mentat 26 February 2020 10: 00 New
    0
    Quote: svp67
    If we are to deliver these aircraft to China, then only on a parity basis, with the simultaneous delivery of their stealth aircraft to us, both J-20 and J-31.

    What the fuck did they give up, what are you hoping to find there, a top-secret Chinese stealth cover or figures from your favorite anime Chinese pilots? What exactly can interest Russia in there?
  12. Dizel200
    Dizel200 26 February 2020 10: 48 New
    0
    copy machine again?))) yourself, let’s do it yourself. you have one and a half lard tadpole and arm
  13. mr.John
    mr.John 26 February 2020 11: 07 New
    -2
    China has a passion for reaching the summit, and this is not a shame.
    China wants to control all technologies around the world, either by stealing or copying, the most important thing is to reach the top and go beyond Russia and the United States in industry and development.
    Is there a problem? Yes ... China is an aggressive country that wants to dominate industry and technology, export arms and export technologies as well.
    You want to be number one in industry, export and control.
    Caution is required.
  14. Ax Matt
    Ax Matt 26 February 2020 18: 33 New
    0
    Shuffle around ...!