"The Russians have not gained anything from this war." World War II and modern Germany


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Pure Wehrmacht


History in post-war Germany, as in any other country, it evolved. And its very first revolution was the myth of the “pure Wehrmacht”, which supposedly did not stain itself in crimes on the Eastern Front. It’s worth just recalling that 10 thousand officers and 44 generals almost went straight from the Wehrmacht to the Bundeswehr. Obviously, the NATO army really needed experienced military personnel tested in battles, able to pass on the experience to the future elite of the Bundeswehr. Conrad Adenauer, December 3, 1952, speaking in the Bundestag, said on this occasion:

“We are convinced that the good reputation and great achievements of the German soldier, despite all the scoldings of recent years, are still relevant for our people and will remain so ... Our task - and I am sure that we will solve it - should be a synthesis of moral values ​​of the German soldier tradition with democracy. "

Actually, before the beginning of the 80s in the Federal Republic of Germany it was the Einsatzgruppe SS and SD that blamed all the crimes on the Eastern Front, leaving the Wehrmacht with a clean and professional army. But studies in which the treatment of Soviet civilians with the German civilian population was described in great detail and “truthfully” have been respected at all times.


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Such a condescending attitude to the “spotless Wehrmacht” was explained very simply - more than 10 million men served in the Eastern Army, that is, in every German family there was someone from the Wehrmacht. How is it possible to name ordinary soldiers, officers and generals war criminals? Indirect recognition of the crimes of the Wehrmacht came to Germany only in the early 90s, when most of the perpetrators were either in old age, or died. Exhibitions were organized that directly linked the Wehrmacht and the Holocaust, and the main function of the army in the genocide was revealed - the identification and identification of Jews, the construction of concentration camps and filling them with unfortunates. Historian J. Ferster, exposing the German army and its role in World War II, said:

“The bitter truth is that the Wehrmacht became Hitler's voluntary assistant in his racial and ideological war in the East. With regard to the Holocaust, the Wehrmacht acted in different faces - a murderer, an assistant, an accomplice. ”

But not all historians in Germany share this view. Let me give an example of F. Remer, who, describing the fierce nature of the war on the Eastern Front, indirectly blamed the Soviet troops on this, along with the Nazis. The problem, according to Roemer, was that in the initial period of the campaign both sides were so stained with blood that "a return to the forms of a" normal European war "was ruled out." And this point of view, along with the recognition of Wehrmacht crimes, also takes place in modern Germany.


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The Hamburg Institute for Social Research in 2001 created a big scandal in German society when it organized a traveling exhibition, The Crimes of the Wehrmacht (Verbrechen der Wehrmacht - Dimensionen des Vernichtungskrieges 1941 bis 1944), and also published a book of the same name. The conservative-minded part of German society (let's call it that) openly expressed dissatisfaction with the fact that the Wehrmacht here once again appeared as a bloodthirsty gathering. It was more correct, according to this part of the population, to clearly distinguish between SS criminals and honest soldiers. At the exhibition, they showed the results of the work of four battle groups - A, B, C and D, each of which was up to the battalion. These SS groups worked within the framework of Army groups “Center”, “North” and “South” and destroyed civilians in 1941–42 in clear coordination of efforts with the rear units of the Wehrmacht.


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An interesting background to this exhibition. She was born in 1995, and its organizer Jan Philippe Reemtsma at the opening said:

“The purpose of this exhibition is to show how unsteady the line was between norm and crime, and how wide was voluntary participation in the massacres.”

For several years, the exhibition traveled throughout Germany, causing either outrage (the “anti-historical propaganda show”) or reflection from Wehrmacht veterans. One elderly veteran of World War II put it:

“I was a simple soldier of the Wehrmacht from 1941 until the end of the war in Russia, Italy, France and Germany, and I don’t feel at all hurt if I finally try to analyze the role of the Wehrmacht in the war. The statement that the crimes were committed by the SS, while the Wehrmacht always remained noble and pure, unfortunately, does not correspond to reality. "

In 1999, a certain Pole Bogdan Muzialu expressed the opinion that some of the 1433 photographs at the exhibition did not document Wehrmacht crimes, but captured the punitive actions of the NKVD. The exhibition was temporarily closed and it was found out that only 20 photos really were not related to the Wehrmacht, but recorded the actions of the Finnish and Hungarian units, as well as the actions of the NKVD. In 2001, the Wehrmacht Crimes resumed work, and no more such allegations have been reported. However, she provoked a definite reaction: the Christian Democratic Union of Germany still considers it to be provocative and insulting the memory of the “honest and noble” Wehrmacht.


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An important issue in connection with the crimes of the Wehrmacht was the count of the number of innocent people stained with blood on the Eastern Front. Here, German historians have no unity.

Democratically minded scientists say that from 60% to 80% of Wehrmacht soldiers and officers committed crimes, which is about 6-8 million people. Munich historian Dieter Paul considers this nonsense and speaks of several tens of thousands of soldiers - this point of view is very fashionable now among the conservative German establishment. The historian Ulrich Herbert does not agree with the Democrats: he and his colleague Rolf Dieter Müller argue that in the Wehrmacht only 5% of the personnel participated in the killings. A more or less reasonable explanation is offered by the historian G. Knopp in the book “History of the Wehrmacht”:

“Of course, one cannot indulge in illusions. The soldiers who took part in hostilities and are stationed behind the front line can hardly be divided into “good” and “bad”. Front-line soldiers and rear soldiers were part of the criminal war of worldviews, and often only the case decided whether the soldier becomes a criminal or not, for example, if the unit was sent to fight partisans. Given that the 3,3 million Wehrmacht soldiers who were involved in the hostilities in Russia in June 1941, and the fact that 1942 to 7000 Russian political workers were eliminated before mid-8000, it becomes unclear how most of the soldiers could remain not involved in these crimes. "


Guilt for the Holocaust Above All


In modern Germany, to the forefront when referring to the history of Nazism is the fault of the mass extermination of Jews during the Second World War. Learning from Nazi crimes - the "lessons of Auschwitz" - is an integral component of teaching history in German schools. The inclusion of materials on the history of the Holocaust in school textbooks is inextricably linked with “overcoming the past” - a complex process of nationwide learning from the history of the Third Reich, a call for moral purification, for perceiving and comprehending the truth about Nazism, for developing immunity in relation to totalitarian ideas, racism and militarism. This is exactly what the official point of view on the history of the 30-40s looks like, and it certainly has the right to be. Moreover, it can be argued that the history of the Holocaust should be studied in more detail in Russian schools, which now, unfortunately, is not observed. In this sense, it is useful to take an example from German school history books. However, further study of the perception by modern Germans of the realities of the Second World War is puzzling.

Let us cite the opinion of German scholars concerned with the problems of historical memory. Professor G. Zimon from Cologne claims that not all gymnasium graduates are aware that Paris was once occupied by fascist troops. Dr. M. Keyser from the University of Bielefeld says that in general it cannot be argued that German schools have developed a unified program for teaching the history of World War II - it all depends on the land on which the educational institution stands.


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In the minds of the German profession, it still seems to be a war. So, the privat-docent of the mentioned Bielefeld University Dr. H. Heinz issued the following:

“The Russians did not gain anything from this war, they only suffered losses! It was not a great patriotic war - it was a war of a small elite, a war of apparatchiks and dogmatists ... What kind of victory is this if you lost 40 million people killed ?! What victory is this ?! It was a victory for the generals, not for the people! But as a scientist, as a specialist in the field of social sciences, I cannot say that the Russians won! According to my methodological and moral positions, I am an individualist. I only think about specific people, about Russians. I do not think about Russia. I see millions of corpses of men and women left without sons and spouses. If so many people died, it means that there was no victory! They all had to go to the funeral, and not hold parades and demonstrations! This is XNUMXth century behavior! In a sense, this is the rehabilitation of all their politicians and generals who have made these mistakes! But what does victory mean? What did the Russians enter Berlin? But what does this mean in our time? It meant something in the time of Frederick the Great. Or in the time of Caesar. In our time, there can be no talk of victory when millions are killed! And who is winning? .. Such a price was paid for nothing! But this is our idea ... We are talking now about the representation of people, and not about empirical facts. The result of the war was not the liberation of Europe, but the Cold War, the atomic weapon and all that exploitation. The liberation of Europe was the price of unleashing wars in developing countries. These were demonstrative wars between East and West over various spheres of influence, and in these wars millions were killed and died ... They were deprived of power due to the so-called balance of forces, which actually did not exist. This is all ideology! I think that such thinking is a prerequisite for the next war. May 9, you should visit your cemeteries and steles, remember those young people who died without knowing why! ”

The most unpleasant thing in this tirade is that in the minds of many of our compatriots such a thing wanders, and they often dare to voice it.

The key idea of ​​the “guilty complex” in Germany is, as mentioned above, responsibility for the mass genocide of Jews. To a lesser extent, it is said about the killing of madmen and the destruction of gypsies. To reproaches regarding the fate of Soviet prisoners of war in the fascist Reich, one can hear in response: “How did you feel about the German prisoners?” Not enough attention is paid in German schools to the terrible history of the siege of Leningrad and, accordingly, few can clearly tell something about it. The second and third place in the memory of the Germans are war crimes committed by the Nazis in the republics of the Soviet Union. But about such a "trifle" as the economic damage from the hostilities of the Third Reich, generally not talk.


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At the same time, Bernhard Schlink's novel The Reader, which was filmed in Hollywood, was included in school textbooks on literature. Let me briefly recall the plot: 15-year-old Michael Berg meets 36-year-old Hannah Schmitz, an affair begins, alternating with reading books through the lips of a young man - Hannah could not read. As a result, it turns out that Schmitz worked as an overseer in Auschwitz during the war years and is guilty of the death of three hundred prisoners. The discussion that follows is about the “gear in the mechanism” and the small link in the chain, which she “was unable to break.” In general, in the book, and even more so in the film of the same name, an image is formed that causes, if not compassion for Hannah, then sympathy for sure. I must say that to study this novel in German schools, a number of teaching aids are used, which step-by-step explain the method of working with the “Reader”. The life of the heroine Hannah Schmitz, we note, is written off from the biography of Hermina Rhine (nee Braunsteiner), which the famous "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal caught in New York in 1964. This sweet and poorly educated woman in Majdanek quickly rose to the position of deputy commandant of the women's section of the camp and received the nickname “Mare” from her prisoners (she kicked women and children with forged boots). And in the book “Reader” Michael tenderly called his dear Hannah a horse, because she has “smooth and tender, and her body is strong and strong.” Such is modern German pedagogy!
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  1. apro 19 February 2020 05: 21 New
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    The theme of legality. Rights in a war are unsteady concepts ... when organized and purposeful destruction of a person. In a form. Without a form. From necessity. By coincidence. WAR is a violation of a person’s right to life.
    And whoever chooses war is already transgressing through someone else's life ...
    1. Stas157 19 February 2020 07: 15 New
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      Pure Wehrmacht

      Each who participated in this most terrible and inhuman war in the history of mankind on the side of the Nazis - to blame (responsible for the grief that the Nazis brought). The degree of guilt and crime of any of their participants is already a detail.
      1. Stas157 19 February 2020 07: 38 New
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        The Russians did not gain anything from this war, they only suffered losses!

        It was a holy war. Ability to sacrifice and pay any price for the sake of victory and the salvation of their nation-only elevates the Soviet people over all others who could not do this.
        1. Machito 19 February 2020 11: 00 New
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          The West is persistently trying to rewrite history. And we don’t have to sit still. Need a new Nuremberg. It is necessary to condemn the criminal actions of the Nazi European Union. It is necessary to condemn Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, Romanians, Finns, Swedes, Danes, Dutch, Italians, Spaniards, French, Croats and other European filth.
          1. Prosha 19 February 2020 22: 24 New
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            I agree with you one hundred percent, but first you need to catch all our compatriots and tear their asses in the blood, for all sorts of "I'm sorry we were cruel", we "were bad about the German prisoners," all the "Kohl boys". To even thoughts that we did not gain anything from victory and we all owe ... All the followers of Solzhenitsyn and Albats.
        2. anykin 20 February 2020 00: 48 New
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          Quote: Stas157
          for the victory and salvation of their nation

          We lost many millions of people, but the Nazis wanted to destroy even more. We did not allow this. We defeated them.
    2. bessmertniy 19 February 2020 07: 25 New
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      It is strange to even raise the question: Russia acquired or not something as a result of the Great Patriotic War. The war was defensive, not predatory. Losses in both the population and the economy are not comparable with either the German or the allied countries. Compensations in the form of reparations were practically nonexistent. And then - economic assistance to other countries that were liberating - although they themselves had huge problems with food and goods. There were acquisitions, but they are not comparable with losses. hi
      1. Olgovich 19 February 2020 07: 54 New
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        Quote: bessmertniy
        It is strange to even raise the question: Russia acquired or not something as a result of the Great Patriotic War.

        the acquisition was huge - our country and people conquered right to life and developmentthat the Nazis wanted to deprive us of.

        the aggressor is destroyed in his den.

        This is Victory, which the German cannot understand.
        1. Squelcher 19 February 2020 12: 07 New
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          The Germans were lucky that the Russian people behaved like “barbarians” and showed compassion and generosity, but if they behaved the same way as the “civilized” fascists behaved on the territory of the USSR, then Germany could have lost more than 40 million.
      2. Stas157 19 February 2020 07: 55 New
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        The Russians have become invincible. In any fight, if you triumph in spite of everything - the damage suffered only enhances the value of victory.

        The Russians saved not only themselves, but all of humanity from the Nazis and the brown plague. Nevertheless, some "progressive" part of humanity forgot about this and ceased to be grateful.
        1. Arlen 19 February 2020 07: 59 New
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          Quote: Stas157
          But some "progressive" part of humanity forgot about it and ceased to be grateful.

          Since history is a policy that has been overturned into the past, it is easiest for these "progressive" personalities to take the Western point of view about the Great Patriotic War. Therefore, post-Soviet falsifiers and others like them consider anti-Soviet historical falsifications the shortest route to the West, which is their goal.
          1. Lexus 19 February 2020 17: 42 New
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            Therefore, post-Soviet falsifiers and others like them consider anti-Soviet historical falsifications the shortest route to the West, which is their goal.

            You are absolutely right, colleague! While the development vector of Russia will be determined by the looters hiding in the West and sending their relatives there, the defeatists, who recognized the loss in the Cold War, and the “shifters” condemning the Soviet past, the traitors who set up the inhuman rules of the game and adapted the rules for personal gain, rewriting History will only continue, but will progress. Under the ostentatious sluggish expressions of concern, covering up their own, more than real, efforts to distort it.
  2. Sergey Averchenkov 19 February 2020 05: 25 New
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    At the moment, I reached out and pulled the book "The Nyurber Process" from the shelf. Everything is said there, with photographs ... And judging by this book, the whole German nation is just scum, which I think.
    1. Krasnodar 19 February 2020 05: 43 New
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      All is not. Most residents of Nazi Germany - yes.
      1. Sergey Averchenkov 19 February 2020 05: 50 New
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        So be it. The vast majority. Almost all.
      2. Octopus 19 February 2020 06: 37 New
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        Quote: Krasnodar
        Most residents of Nazi Germany - yes.

        What an interesting position.
        1. The Germans of Hitler and the Germans of Adenauer are the same people.
        2. Are you personally ready to pay all bills for both of your countries?
        1. Krasnodar 19 February 2020 06: 55 New
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          1) Already wrote here - there was a story in Munich of the 45th year. The Americans presented the Germans for concentration camps. The Germans answered - we did not know anything. And then Jews are discovered. And the Munich family that hid these Jews. The townspeople declared such a boycott, because people harboring Jews destroyed their slender version of "we knew nothing."
          2) smile The decline in the purchasing power of the population due to the sanctions in the Crimea and falling oil prices has reduced my income many times. The Iranian confrontation with Israel limits my opportunities and income. I pay personally hi
          1. Octopus 19 February 2020 07: 37 New
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            Quote: Krasnodar
            the Munich family that hid these Jews. The townspeople declared such a boycott, because people harboring Jews destroyed their slender version of "we knew nothing."

            Yes. What's the news? Found cowardly hypocrites in Nazi Germany?
            Quote: Krasnodar
            I pay personally

            Are you sure you pay enough? It seems to me that the author and commentators, who are so worried about the crimes of WWII, do not consider the decrease in the purchasing power of the Reichsmark in the 45th year to be a sufficient payment by the German people for the inconvenience caused to close and distant neighbors.

            By the way, the situation with purchasing power is not connected with the Crimea. Obama, as it often happened to him, wrote down a random coincidence of dates in his achievements. That is, Russian geopolitical achievements and the reversal of oil prices.
            1. Krasnodar 19 February 2020 08: 22 New
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              Well, what's the news - most of the inhabitants of Nazi Germany were scum.
              Do you compare the annexation of Crimea by Russia and Israel’s behavior in the BV to the identical cutting out of millions of civilians in the Nazi-initiated war?
              As for oil - a drop in prices is half the trouble, cutting off Russians from cheap, long money is the other half.
              1. Octopus 19 February 2020 09: 02 New
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                Quote: Krasnodar
                most nazi germans were scum

                They were not heroes. This is different.
                Quote: Krasnodar
                Do you compare the annexation of Crimea by Russia and Israel’s behavior in the BV to the identical cutting out of millions of civilians in the Nazi-initiated war?

                Do you share a small war and a big war?
                Quote: Krasnodar
                cutting off Russians from cheap, long money is the other half.

                Russians long cheap money anyway past. Whoever needs it will take Nabiullina. It happens that without recoil.
                1. Krasnodar 19 February 2020 09: 43 New
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                  1) Not to be a hero - this is not to substitute yourself and your family by hiding the Jews.
                  To be a scumbag is to boycott those who did it.
                  2) I share the prevention of the loss of a friendly population (Crimea) and my own (Israel) with the cutting out of millions for the sake of ... "living space", "racial struggle" and other turbidity.
                  3) Those to whom Elvira Sahipzadovna will take, all the more, irrevocably - no more than 0,3% of the population)). Fallen business activity - yes, it hit everyone very hard
                  1. Octopus 19 February 2020 10: 27 New
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                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Fallen business activity - yes, it hit everyone very hard

                    She did not fall because of Obama. In the Russian economy, there is an excess of money; nobody wants to invest. For obvious reasons.

                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    with cutting millions for

                    Very good.
                    Up to what point do you have no complaints against Hitler? September 39? May 40? June 41?

                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    To be a scumbag is to boycott those who did it.

                    How sharp you are. Suppose I agree with you. But.
                    Do you remember Akhejakova’s statements about Ukraine? And what did they say and continue to say about her after that, including on this very forum?
                    1. Krasnodar 19 February 2020 10: 34 New
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                      1) Oil fell due to shale mining by one of the largest consumers of oil - the United States
                      2) Since April 1889.
                      3) Once again - you are comparing different things.
                      1. Octopus 19 February 2020 11: 36 New
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                        1. Do you understand that it was not Obama who invented horizontal drilling for Crimea?
                        2. When Hitler was small with a curly head.

                        That is, the Germans who welcomed the annexation of the Sudeten were already scum?
                        3. Different in scale.
                      2. Krasnodar 19 February 2020 11: 51 New
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                        1) I understand perfectly))
                        2) That's right - from birth. The Germans reaction to the annexation Sudet does not bother me - I am hindered by their reaction to the persecution of their neighbors, the war of extermination on the Eastern Front, their attitude to slave labor of prisoners of war, etc.
                        3) Ok - Russia has annexed all of Ukraine to itself? Is Israel at least once in its history waging a war to destroy anyone’s statehood?
                  2. Arpad 19 February 2020 10: 56 New
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                    Quote: Octopus
                    Up to what point do you have no complaints against Hitler? September 39? May 40? June 41?

                    To this question, many have a different answer. I think the Russians and the USSR until June 1941 did not have any questions for Giitler at all.
                    The British, until 1939.
                    The Poles - probably the same thing.
                    Italy and Spain - the question is whether the questions were interesting.
                    Latin America ? answer yourself.
                    Jews? since 1933 questions have arisen.
                    for many it is very individual.
                    1. Octopus 19 February 2020 11: 44 New
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                      Yes, her life is complicated.

                      Let me remind you, we discussed the responsibility of a citizen for the actions of his state. For example, for example, Hess, who spent the entire Second World War in an English prison. Or Ryoma, who was shot by order of Hitler in the 34th and to blame, in your opinion, only a little bit before the Jews.
                    2. Krasnodar 19 February 2020 11: 53 New
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                      Are you saying that you can not generalize? I agree. Was the righteous in Sadom? It was. The bulk were perverts and villains? It was.
  • rocket757 19 February 2020 05: 28 New
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    The winners write the story .... this is when the winner unambiguously admits his mistakes as well, it turns out REINFORCED CONCRETE TRUTH !!! For centuries!
    When wagging through a step, embellishing one, belittling another, it turns out that something is not something that can serve as a historical foundation on the CENTURY !.
    It's a shame that because of the stupidity of not the most ... people from OUR ANCESTORS, they are trying to steal the conquered VICTORY with blood !!!
    1. Malyuta 19 February 2020 07: 26 New
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      Quote: rocket757
      It's a shame that because of the stupidity of not the most ... people from OUR ANCESTORS, they are trying to steal the conquered VICTORY with blood !!!

      Why are they trying, they have already stolen, stolen everything that our grandfathers fought for and died. There is no country, there is no Soviet power, there is no public property, but there is wild Camprador capitalism.
      1. rocket757 19 February 2020 07: 33 New
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        While the people are, nothing is finished!
        1. Prosha 19 February 2020 22: 32 New
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          Unfortunately, the people who won were divided, and part of this people has already taken the traitors to their banners and opposed their own parents and grandfathers. Once again I am convinced of the genius of Gogol N.V ....
          1. rocket757 20 February 2020 06: 52 New
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            This is true, now we are a torn, divided people ... as happened in history more than once.
            Weak peoples disappeared, but this is not our option.
            We will recover, gather as much as possible and at the request of our people.
            Nothing ended ... when it starts, I can’t say, but it will be necessary.
  • Same lech 19 February 2020 05: 31 New
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    What is this victory if you lost 40 million people killed?

    belay
    Fritz freely treat numbers like the Memorial ... ascribing non-existent sticks and zeros
    I never believed the Germans in historical terms ... now they have become actively involved in the rigging of facts ... noticed this since the Chechen war ... when a German journalist without batting an eye rigged the facts ... these are crooks.
    As for what we gained and what we lost ... I will say this.
    We in WWII gained freedom and independence from Nazi invaders ... and we lost millions of our fellow citizens killed by these civilized barbarians.
    Now we will have to fight not only with foreign distortors of history, but also with our Kolya from Urengoy and such as a judge from the Constitutional Court of Russia (I demand, as a Russian citizen, that Putin immediately dismiss him ... for distorting our history and participating in the destruction of our state.)
    The Internet has enough photographs and descriptions of eyewitnesses and participants in Wehrmacht crimes ... this does not require special evidence.
    1. apro 19 February 2020 05: 52 New
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      Quote: The same Lech
      We in WWII gained freedom and independence from the Nazi invaders.

      In that war, the Soviet defended their right to be called Soviet civilization ...
      Today, Soviet civilization is destroyed. And the interests of the victors over the Soviet ones are aimed at destroying the historical memory of the achievements of Soviet civilization. And in this they act in the same way as the losers of the Europeans.
      1. Same lech 19 February 2020 05: 57 New
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        and the interests of the winners over the Soviet aimed at destroying the historical memory of the achievements of Soviet civilization

        It’s just that the judge of the Constitutional Court, Konstantin Aranovsky, acts in this vein ... he destroys not just the history of the USSR, he destroys our historical memory ... there cannot be a dissenting opinion of the judge, as Putin said ... strongly disagrees with him ... is a red line that no one is allowed to cross with impunity.
        Aranovsky crossed it and he just needs to be immediately removed from the Constitutional Court ... in my opinion he is worse than a terrorist in the consequences of the crime.
        1. apro 19 February 2020 06: 00 New
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          Quote: The same Lech
          Judge of the Constitutional Court Konstantin Aranovsky and acts

          It logically acts in line with the Russian national capital project. And the authorities holding it have no claims. He expressed their position ...
          1. Same lech 19 February 2020 06: 04 New
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            in line with the Russian national capital project

            I don’t know what it is smile (describe in more detail what you mean)
            But I know that his goal is to make us repent and pay, destroying our historical memory.
            1. apro 19 February 2020 06: 08 New
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              Quote: The same Lech
              I don’t know what it is

              Flag, coat of arms, relation to the means of production, public relations ...
              1. Same lech 19 February 2020 06: 14 New
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                Well, this is all universal and applicable to other states.
                Well, for example, Poland ... many people think that it is Russophobic at the behest of the United States ... no, the Poles are trying to use the power of the United States in their interests ... however, not realizing that the United States will gobble up Poland at any time in their interests.
                Such a tangle of capitalist interests is visible all over the world ... nothing new ... Lenin described all this well in his writings.
                1. Arlen 19 February 2020 07: 38 New
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                  Quote: The same Lech
                  Lenin described all this well in his writings.

                  We do not read Lenin and do not try to understand the meaning and meaning of his works. We have the teachings of Harvard with respect to its wild capitalism.
                  1. Sanichsan 21 February 2020 15: 06 New
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                    Quote: Arlen
                    We have the teachings of Harvard with respect to its wild capitalism.

                    specify, you suggest not reading the "Harvard teaching" living in a country organized on these ideas?
        2. ROBIN-SON 23 February 2020 02: 25 New
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          This judge knew in advance that it was possible to say that and that he was not touched.
    2. Octopus 19 February 2020 07: 59 New
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      Quote: The same Lech
      such as a judge from the Russian Constitutional Court

      Well, actually, Mr. Agranovsky rather clumsily tried to screw up the thesis of "responsibility, but not guilt" of Russia for the crimes of the USSR. For example, with such formulations, the States paid for the Iranian airbase, and Ukraine - for Tu over the Black Sea in 2001. That is, we are not to blame, but we will pay in the name of good (specifically there was talk about the return / compensation of housing for the descendants of the repressed). More recently, this would have been quite a passing thesis. As, by the way, and the statements of the mentioned Kolya, a completely integrated comrade, one can say from the Komsomol asset.

      But Mr. Agranovsky, again, was surprised to learn that he was far behind the party line. Now it’s not customary to pretend that Russia has nothing to do with the crimes of the times of Stalin. Now it’s customary to jump, wave and shout, "This is us! We, the current ones, have done all this! We can repeat it!".
    3. Malyuta 19 February 2020 08: 02 New
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      Quote: The same Lech
      Fritz freely treat numbers like a Memorial ... ascribing non-existent sticks and zeroesI never believed the Germans in historical terms ... now they have become actively involved in the rigging of facts ... noticed this since the Chechen war ... when the German journalist did not bathe eye rigged the facts ... here are the crooks.

      The fact is that the facts were rigged not only by Fritz and “partners”, but also by our domestic pseudo “historians”. In fact, there are direct military losses, and there are indirect, post-war historians estimated direct losses at 8-8,5 million people at the fronts, incl. captives and 6 million civilians, including those stolen to Germany. The figure of 16 million people was recognized in total, and during Khrushchev’s attempt to count the number of victims by the 20th anniversary of the victory, comparing the 1939 and 1959 censuses, about 20 million people received data. These statistics are reliable, with the proviso that they take into account not only direct victims of the war, but also an increased level of natural mortality of the population that exceeds the corresponding peacetime indicators. In fact, 20 million is the total number of direct (16 million) and indirect (4 million .) This figure, although calculated with great reservations by the methodological balance sheet, was accepted as final. But the labeled one decided to revise these statistics as part of the propaganda company for "exposing Stalinism", which until zhna Stalin was set as the only culprit losses. Immediately there were figures from 40 to 60 million, which does not fit common sense, but the propaganda worked clearly! From here, they “threw corpses”, “stupid, bloodthirsty generals”, and “bloody Stalin”.
      So those who began to ruin the country began to rewrite the history of the Great Patriotic War. hi
    4. Prosha 19 February 2020 22: 43 New
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      In all this abomination with the rewriting of history, something else is surprising - the Poles shout that the Russians have killed the “color of the Polish army” for ten years now trying to squeeze tears from the eyes of the world community about. And the Russians - we are bashfully silent about insinuations about the deaths of 30 million of our relatives and friends and are still forced to make excuses to everyone that it turns out we started the war ... The question is why so far our government and the Foreign Ministry have not raised the issue of world repentance A united Europe, which "as one stood for a free personality" and joyfully rushed to my homeland to sow "rational and eternal". Maybe it’s time to adopt the call of Ilya Erenburg
  • Far B 19 February 2020 05: 38 New
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    Everything is clear, I agree with almost everything. But this passage is perplexing:
    Moreover, it can be argued that the history of the Holocaust should be studied in more detail in Russian schools
    What hangover can I say? But the Soviet people as a whole was not subjected to genocide? Yes, in the history of the Holocaust itself - there are a lot of questions that have no answers (and are unlikely to ever be). The theme of the Holocaust was greatly promoted, because it was very beneficial for someone, no more, no less. And it is simply insanity to dwell on the genocide of Jews in Russian schools in detail, given that the USSR lost a total of 27 million of its citizens, most of them Russians, Belarusians, and Ukrainians.
  • samarin1969 19 February 2020 05: 38 New
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    The author mischievously mixed a lot in his article. Indeed, millions of Hitler's soldiers and the entire German people were criminals. A archival:
    The Russians did not gain anything from this war, they only suffered losses!

    Königsberg is too small a blame for Germany's unthinkable crimes against the peoples of the USSR.
    A worthy answer would be the expulsion of Germans from East Prussia and the territory of the German Democratic Republic. These lands were to become Russia.
    In the end - these are the ancient lands of the Slavs.
    Those who think differently usually hide behind a quote about "the Hitlers leave, but ..." I advise them to read about the occupation and attitude towards prisoners of war in Sevastopol on the 42nd.
    1. Octopus 19 February 2020 06: 50 New
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      What interesting suggestions
      Quote: samarin1969
      expulsion of Germans from East Prussia

      Are there many Germans there now?
      Quote: samarin1969
      the territory of the GDR

      In fact, the Soviet government specially built a wall so that the East Germans ceased to be expelled from the territory of the German Democratic Republic.
      Quote: samarin1969
      These lands were to become Russia.

      What you need to know about Russians - for some reason they always have little land.

      But Soviet power was a little smarter, after all. The Soviet Union needed new slaves, not new lands. Also, frankly, there was little sense, but nonetheless.
      1. oracul 19 February 2020 08: 59 New
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        What slaves are you talking about ??? Cross !!!
        1. Octopus 19 February 2020 09: 04 New
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          Quote: oracul
          What slaves are you talking about ??? Cross !!!

          Oh yes, sorry.

          Free workers of the countries of people's democracy. The main thing is not to escape from countries of free labor into the slavery of capital, bastards. Especially with the country, like Hungarians or Czechoslovakians.
          1. Sanichsan 21 February 2020 15: 24 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            Especially with the country, like Hungarians or Czechoslovakians.

            who is Czech? well, well done they all! Hungary is one of the poorest countries in Europe, there is no Czechoslovakia at all ... but not slaves wassat free slaves! it is so honorable in the EU wassat
            1. Octopus 21 February 2020 18: 23 New
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              Quote: SanichSan
              Hungary is one of the poorest countries in Europe,

              Compared to what? Saratov region?
              Quote: SanichSan
              There is no Czechoslovakia at all

              And to whom, excuse me, did this make it worse? Czechs or Slovaks?
              Quote: SanichSan
              there was a border with not the most friendly neighbors

              I do remember. It was said that West Berliners go to socialist shops to buy consumer goods, which creates a deficit thereof throughout the Soviet camp.
              Quote: SanichSan
              we will disassemble

              With you? What's the point?
              1. Sanichsan 25 February 2020 16: 03 New
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                Quote: Octopus
                Compared to what? Saratov region?

                even with the Saratov region.
                and this despite the fact that in the Saratov region it is part of Russia under sanctions, and Hungary is an EU country in billions of subsidies, which by the way are already ending wink without subsidies, then they will probably be even better laughing
                Quote: Octopus
                And to whom, excuse me, did this make it worse? Czechs or Slovaks?

                it’s interesting that Chekhov and Slovaks already have questions “where did it get better?” wink
                Quote: Octopus
                I do remember. It was said that West Berliners go to socialist shops to buy consumer goods, which creates a deficit thereof throughout the Soviet camp.

                sluggish agitation bully today is not the 90s and it no longer works yes abundance has already been seen, and what is "no money to buy" also everyone knows. including the Germans. fairy tales about capitalist paradise have long been ridiculous, and those who tell them look silly laughing
                Quote: Octopus
                With you? What's the point?

                but why not? Are you afraid that the legend of the "happy unification of Germany" will again turn into a fiasco? you are not here to remind you of what kind of ass the East Germans got when the enterprises in eastern Germany closed and how the West got stuck when it turned out what exactly they should feed the eastern subsidies? I recall that this crisis has not yet been resolved. are you here just to tell a few dozen idiots jumping on the wreckage of the Berlin wall in front of the cameras? laughing
                1. Octopus 25 February 2020 17: 43 New
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                  Quote: SanichSan
                  even with the Saratov region

                  The minimum wage in Hungary is above the average in the Saratov region. The Ginny in Hungary is almost half as low (i.e., the distribution of income is much more even)
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  without subsidies, then they will probably be even better

                  While the fat dries, the thin one dies.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  that Chekhov and Slovaks already have questions "where did it get better?"

                  Chekhov and Slovaks, who have not felt better since the 89th year, in Khimki Tudei saw on rush.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  sluggish agitation

                  It’s funny to you, and in those years it was precisely this that was pushed.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  the legend of the "happy unification of Germany" will again turn into a fiasco?

                  I absolutely agree with you. It is necessary to separate the GDR back, most importantly, Merkel to return to the German Komsomol. And send another comrade from the KGB to Dresden, DC to manage.

                  But, I am afraid, the Germans have a different opinion on this issue.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  to refute the thesis that the United States is not a colonial empire, just enough to say that "this is not an empire"?

                  Why should I refute illiterate statements? The United States has one colony, Puerto Rico, deep in the budget line, and several other microscopic islands in the Pacific Ocean. Not drawn to a colonial empire.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  the number of American bases around the world.

                  Apparently, we do not know the differences between the colony and the base.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  some empire since the time of Peter

                  Not Peter, but Paul read carefully.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  but to prove

                  Who to prove? You?
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  jump off that it’s not you but some German?

                  No, what are you. The German is expressed as if the Russians are the same people as he is. But there were other opinions.
                  The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European, but an Asiatic, and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinaman or a Japanese, and from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them, except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian have no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk.

                  Truth is always good. I am always for the truth.
                  1. Sanichsan 26 February 2020 16: 28 New
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                    ha ha ha laughing it's an extravaganza! you made my day! bully
                    Quote: Octopus
                    The minimum wage in Hungary is above the average in the Saratov region. The Ginny in Hungary is almost half as low (i.e., the distribution of income is much more even)

                    prices and rents and much more, including the unemployment rate and the number of homeless people. but of course the navalny do not need to know about it yes good in Hungary! rather, get Hungarian citizenship, from which Ukrainians will occupy all places laughing
                    Quote: Octopus
                    While the fat dries, the thin one dies.

                    and that is true wink only Russia has been living under sanctions for many years, and Hungary, without sanctions, annually begs money from the EU.
                    By the way, and now, when the UK fell off with its contribution of 70 lard, who do you think compensates for this hole in the euro budget? Hungary or Poland, which also constantly begs for money laughing
                    Quote: Octopus
                    Chekhov and Slovaks, who have not felt better since the 89th year, have seen Tudey in Khimki in Russia.

                    not. in the "euro news" showed Czech parliamentarians with such interesting questions to the government .. last year if I am not mistaken.
                    Quote: Octopus
                    I absolutely agree with you. It is necessary to separate the GDR back, most importantly, Merkel to return to the German Komsomol. And send another comrade from the KGB to Dresden, DC to manage.

                    But, I am afraid, the Germans have a different opinion on this issue.

                    Of course, another! they are not as crazy as you wassat factories in eastern Germany have already been destroyed and they will not be built from the branch. only when Germany was united, neither West nor East Germans were asked. well, okay ... democracy! wassat
                    Quote: Octopus
                    Truth is always good. I am always for the truth.
                    hmmm ... patton is a foe? well this is not news at all wink after this amazing news, should the German obscurantist get better?
      2. Sanichsan 21 February 2020 15: 21 New
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        Quote: Octopus
        In fact, the Soviet government specially built a wall so that the East Germans ceased to be expelled from the territory of the German Democratic Republic.

        in general, the wall was built there by the fact that there was a border with not the most friendly neighbors wink Ali already forgotten? laughing
        Quote: Octopus
        But Soviet power was a little smarter, after all. The Soviet Union needed new slaves, not new lands. Also, frankly, there was little sense, but nonetheless.

        great!
        we will analyze who these slaves are and why are they called that? bully
    2. Whalebone 19 February 2020 16: 13 New
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      Do you want to say that Stalin was modest in Yalta? It was necessary to take the former German colonies in Africa?
    3. Sanichsan 21 February 2020 15: 18 New
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      Quote: samarin1969
      Königsberg is too small a blame for Germany's unthinkable crimes against the peoples of the USSR.

      tell me, you don’t mind that Königsberg is not something got the USSR after war? Königsberg is what remains of what was received to date.
      Actually, the USSR received eastern Europe. East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, etc. all this was a zone of Soviet influence. Warsaw Pact countries. or do you think that Stalin gave the Poles a piece of Germany from incredible kindness?
      why the German is lying, I understand. he has complexes. why are you relaying this obvious lie? request
  • sagitch 19 February 2020 05: 40 New
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    Russians gained nothing from this war
    - You say these words to the participants of that war. Not for material gain did our grandfathers and fathers perish ...
    Well, they are trying to measure everything in rubles.
    1. mat-vey 19 February 2020 05: 52 New
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      Quote: sagitch
      Russians gained nothing from this war
      - You say these words to the participants of that war. Not for material gain did our grandfathers and fathers perish ...
      Well, they are trying to measure everything in rubles.

      Well, according to their logic, it turns out that life is so-so "acquisition".
  • Krasnodar 19 February 2020 05: 47 New
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    “The Russians did not gain anything from this war, they only suffered losses! It was not a great patriotic war - it was a war of a small elite, a war of apparatchiks and dogmatists ... What kind of victory is this if you lost 40 million people killed ?! What victory is this ?! It was a victory for the generals, not for the people! But as a scientist, as a specialist in the field of social sciences, I cannot say that the Russians won! According to my methodological and moral positions, I am an individualist. I only think about specific people, about Russians. I do not think about Russia. I see millions of corpses of men and women left without sons and spouses. If so many people died, it means that there was no victory! They all had to go to the funeral, and not hold parades and demonstrations! This is 9th century behavior! In a sense, this is the rehabilitation of all their politicians and generals who have made these mistakes! But what does victory mean? What did the Russians enter Berlin? But what does this mean in our time? It meant something in the time of Frederick the Great. Or in the time of Caesar. Nowadays, there can be no talk of victory when millions are killed! And who is winning? .. Such a price was paid for nothing! But this is our idea ... We are talking now about the representation of people, and not about empirical facts. The result of the war was not the liberation of Europe, but the Cold War, atomic weapons and all that, exploitation. The liberation of Europe was the price of unleashing wars in developing countries. These were demonstrative wars between the East and the West over various spheres of influence, and in these wars millions were killed and died ... They were deprived of power due to the so-called balance of forces, which actually did not exist. This is all ideology! I think that such thinking is a prerequisite for the next war. On May XNUMX you should visit your cemeteries and steles, remember those young people who died without knowing why! ”

    "Forgot" about what fate the Nazis had for the peoples of the USSR
    1. Sanichsan 21 February 2020 15: 30 New
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      Quote: Krasnodar
      "Forgot" about what fate the Nazis had for the peoples of the USSR

      Not only. Dr. Heinz is simply ignorant and does not know the history of his own country. for example, for some reason, he does not know about eastern Germany, which left the USSR and with which western Germany was so joyfully reunited. wink
  • rotmistr60 19 February 2020 05: 59 New
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    Privat Associate Professor of the University of Bielefeld Dr. H. Heinz
    He is a scoundrel and being an assistant professor at the university remains a scoundrel. Today, a German who is guilty and ashamed of the beginning of the 2nd MV, the death of millions of people is nonsense (there are some who are still sensible). Not only that, they are not only trying to justify Germany at that time, but also lay blame on the USSR (Russia). Well, and about the German media, the conversation is generally separate.
    1. Octopus 19 February 2020 08: 20 New
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      Quote: rotmistr60
      He is a scoundrel and being an assistant professor at the university remains a scoundrel

      Well, actually you don’t appreciate the good attitude in vain.

      Dr. Heinz, firstly, a German (and conversations about German patience over the history of WWII are justified, the Japanese, for example, quickly closed the topic of their guilt), and secondly, a figure in Western academic science, which is generally very humane and in his humanism does not stop before any hypocrisy.

      If you read his statement, he denies the truth in order to maintain liberal discourse (the value of human life and all that). He refuses to accept that the life of an individual then did not matter to anyone. And now far from everywhere it matters. He says that Russians celebrate the anniversary of the Great Victory like The USSR and present-day Russia are some kind of empire from the time of Paul I. He did not say - and he never will have the courage to say - that the Russians celebrate the anniversary of the Great Victory because both the USSR and present-day Russia are exactly empire of the times of Paul I with a new weapon.
      1. Sanichsan 21 February 2020 15: 37 New
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        Quote: Octopus
        He says that Russians celebrate the anniversary of the Great Victory as if the USSR and present-day Russia are some kind of empire from the time of Paul I.

        and the USA with its "independence day" too? and France? you don’t stop, stigmatize all who celebrate the great milestones in the development of their countries.
        Quote: Octopus
        He did not say — and he never will have the courage to say — that the Russians are celebrating the anniversary of the Great Victory because both the USSR and present-day Russia are empires of the times of Paul I with new weapons.

        of course! then the USA is still the same colonial empire with new weapons, and Germany, France and the United Kingdom (as yet laughing ) these are the same colonial powers but have few modern weapons and they can’t because the United States. He is German! it will be insulting wink
        1. Octopus 21 February 2020 18: 30 New
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          Quote: SanichSan
          Is the US with its "Independence Day" too? and France?

          Both of these holidays are the analogue of the Russian one on June 12.
          Quote: SanichSan
          The USA is still the same colonial empire with new weapons, while Germany, France and the United Kingdom

          These countries have their own problems (especially the United States), but they are nation states, not empires. Accordingly, liberal discourse is more applicable to them.
          1. Sanichsan 25 February 2020 15: 27 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            Both of these holidays are the analogue of the Russian one on June 12.

            and? they have such holidays, do we have others?
            we have affected everyone’s war, and for everyone the victory in this won an important event and then oops, there is some kind of upstart that is taken by all the population of Russia to teach life ??? Do you take on a lot of guys? doesn’t crack anything? wassat or jump off that it’s not you but some German? laughing
            Quote: Octopus
            These countries have their own problems (especially the United States), but they are nation states, not empires. Accordingly, liberal discourse is more applicable to them.

            oops. that is, to refute the thesis that the United States is not a colonial empire, just enough to say that "this is not an empire"? belay powerful argument .... especially considering the number of American bases around the world ...
            But in order to prove that Russia is “some kind of empire from the time of Peter the Great”, is it enough just to repeat some German's bullshit?
            well what can I say, you have a very strong evidence base wassat (no)
  • kytx 19 February 2020 06: 04 New
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    And of these 30 million, 2/XNUMX were peaceful people.
    and so the Wehrmacht was white and fluffy.
  • Ross xnumx 19 February 2020 06: 10 New
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    Thanks, Eugene! Thank you for returning to the reality of past events those who hope for some compromises with the outright enemies of our country and continue to look for “allies” and “partners” in them. War is not a game of "tanks" or any other "shooters" ...
    I have always keenly felt the grief of people who survived WWII. And I can’t get rid of hatred for the Nazis ever. These are vile scoundrels who simply scoffed at my people, and today the children and grandchildren of those little ones who were directly involved are raising their heads ...
    Yesterday showed shelling of villages in the Donetsk region. People in their homes are horrified by the shelling artillery shells of the “valiant” UPA (I can’t name it otherwise) ... And it’s still winter ... It’s associated with:


  • parusnik 19 February 2020 07: 02 New
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    More than 700 Soviet citizens on Piskarevsky ... this is not the Holocaust ... Our region, and not only that at present cannot reach the demographic level of 000 ... This is not the Holocaust ... And the Wehrmacht is white and fluffy .. .
  • Lamata 19 February 2020 07: 03 New
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    You can read the orders of Field Marshal W. Reichenau. very informative. And this is the Wehrmacht.
    1. Sanichsan 21 February 2020 15: 45 New
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      Quote: Lamata
      You can read the orders of Field Marshal W. Reichenau.

      congratulations Igor! a couple of Nazis, you honestly drove by the hat (two minuses from you without any arguments) soldier that’s how you have to deal with rewriting history! facts! soldier
  • Tank jacket 19 February 2020 07: 22 New
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    When does Germany recognize the genocide of the Russian multinational people?
    1. novel66 19 February 2020 07: 40 New
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      now apparently never request
      1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 07: 58 New
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        Roman, we must remind them of the 20 million civilians of the USSR.
        1. novel66 19 February 2020 08: 12 New
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          it was necessary as Jews to present immediately, and now, as it were, it’s played
          1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 08: 21 New
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            Oh well, after the agreements of 2021-2022 on the division of spheres of influence between the Russian Federation, China and the USA, Europe is still leaving for us ...
            1. novel66 19 February 2020 08: 22 New
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              Do we need it? with Arabs and gays?
              1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 08: 24 New
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                We'll have to pick it up, otherwise there will be chaos at the borders. A responsibility.
          2. Lamata 19 February 2020 08: 47 New
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            You can’t play 27 in any way, I just lost relatives on the front 000 people. And Interestingly, the daughter of my dear grandmother, who died a half-year-old (in 000 from starvation), should not be considered a victim of the war?
  • Chaldon48 19 February 2020 07: 25 New
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    During the battle, the soldier shoots in the direction in which he was told that there is an enemy, outside the battle he fulfills the order of his superior 90% of the responsibility lies with the one who gave the order, but 10% also bear a heavy burden on the soldier’s conscience, for example, to shoot a pregnant woman even if they said she was a traitor.
  • Wanderer039 19 February 2020 07: 40 New
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    Of course, the Russians did not gain anything from the war that Germany unleashed against Russia, but Germany should think a thousand times before starting a new war with Russia, since the war brings nothing but grief, and an attempt to conquer Russia and the whole World is a utopia ..
  • K-50 19 February 2020 08: 10 New
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    But not all historians in Germany share this view. Let me give an example of F. Remer, who, describing the fierce nature of the war on the Eastern Front, indirectly blamed the Soviet troops on this, along with the Nazis. The problem, according to Roemer, was that in the initial period of the campaign both sides were so stained with blood that "a return to the forms of a" normal European war "was ruled out."

    Fierce character? Yes. Hands in Blood? YES!!!.
    But in the "blood" in different ways you can get scolded.
    As the Wehrmacht and the Nazis destroying civilians, refugees, prisoners of war, sanbats and the hospital, along with staff.
    And you can protect your homeland, relatives and friends, destroying the Enemy, who was brutalized from the spilled blood of others! !!!
    It is a pity at times that the Soviet government forbade even giving in the face and could bring it to justice, and this at a time when hundreds of thousands of Soviet prisoners of war were shot, starved and starved of disease.
    We were too kind to the vanquished, although back in ancient times it was said "woe to the vanquished"
    Apparently because of our kindness, all sorts of undeserved accusations are now hanging on us, "eyewitnesses" tell all sorts of crap.
    How long can this be tolerated?
    In general, it was necessary to clean up the whole of Germany
    Genocide? No, sanitation from a mad nation !!!
    Maybe now it would be much quieter and calmer !!
  • Avior 19 February 2020 08: 24 New
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    For some reason, the author does not mention one of the most important official results of the Second World War, the decisions of the Nuremberg Tribunal.
    But there are enough episodes examined to dispel the myth of a pure and innocent Wehrmacht.
    But, on the other hand, the figures of 80 percent of those who committed war crimes in the Wehrmacht are also doubtful - the Wehrmacht tribunal, unlike the SS, was still not recognized as a criminal organization
    1. lukewarm 19 February 2020 09: 48 New
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      I agree more than completely. And the percentage of war criminals is somehow far-fetched, IMHO. Not the author, but those whom he refers to. Who counted them and how? We must face the truth: the war on the Eastern Front was a war of annihilation. There were completely different rules. Rather, they were not at all.
  • 1536 19 February 2020 08: 24 New
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    Every German soldier who came to the lands of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia in 1941 is a criminal. It is a pity that the crimes of these soldiers have not been solved so far, that the names of these bandits and the composition of their crimes have not been named. Hence the problems that millions of Germans escaped punishment for their crimes in 1941-1945, and now their descendants, the descendants of these criminals, are again trying to rewrite history in order to repeat what their fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers did in the territories they occupied.
    1. Roman070280 19 February 2020 09: 46 New
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      Every German soldier who came to the lands of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia in 1941 is a criminal. It is a pity that the crimes of these soldiers have not been solved so far, that the names of these bandits and the composition of their crimes have not been named.


      And every Roman soldier ??
      Or - every Mongolian ??
      Anyway, the soldier has such a fate .. he is obliged to obey orders ..

      It is now possible to amend the Constitution .. and determine the priority of domestic law over international .. But the soldier does not have such an opportunity .. what laws exist in his country - according to them he is obliged to serve ..

      PS .. and so yes .. many Chechens, probably the same about our soldiers think ..
      1. Sanichsan 21 February 2020 15: 59 New
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        Quote: Roman070280
        And every Roman soldier ??
        Or - every Mongolian ??
        Anyway, the soldier has such a fate .. he is obliged to obey orders ..

        about the Mongolians, you ask the Polovtsians ... oh yes .. the Polovtsians then cut everyone out, so there’s no one to repent of ... the problem is solved. do you think all the rules? is it right?
        but the fact that the soldiers have no choice is a lie. Joseph Schulz is an example of this. but he is one of not many, and all the others from "Hitler promised us land near Stalingrad." justifying moral freaks who invaded a foreign country to get slaves and land - he himself becomes a moral freak. yes
        Quote: Roman070280
        PS .. and so yes .. many Chechens, probably the same about our soldiers think ..

        Tell me, what do many Russians who lived in Chechnya before these events think? decided to tell a fairy tale about the "freedom fighters"? not ashamed?
        1. Roman070280 25 February 2020 09: 10 New
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          the problem is resolved. do you think all the rules? is it right?


          As I think - I wrote above ..
          Any war, even before its inception, is a crime ..
          And any soldier who took a weapon and SHOCKED - pledged to kill by order of all those who demand - is already a criminal ..
          It’s just that one has the fate of serving in peacetime .. and he doesn’t shoot anyone .. And the other is destined to serve during the war .. and he’s just stepping into the military enlistment office - already a potential killer ..

          "Hitler promised us land near Stalingrad." justifying moral freaks invading a foreign country
          Well, I say - from the Mongols to the Romans - any war in history has been fought for the sake of invading / capturing something .. There are no other wars .. good ones ..

          but the fact that the soldiers have no choice is a lie
          That's what you think..
          But those who burned dill in boilers - acted quite on their own orders ..
          1. Sanichsan 25 February 2020 13: 44 New
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            Quote: Roman070280
            And any soldier who took a weapon and SHOCKED - pledged to kill by order of all those who demand - is already a criminal ..

            yes you! judging by this thesis of the military oath you did not take, otherwise you would remember the text of the oath. there is nothing about the killings, but about compliance with laws and the constitution.
            Quote: Roman070280
            It’s just that one has the fate of serving in peacetime .. and he doesn’t shoot anyone .. And the other is destined to serve during the war .. and he’s just stepping into the military enlistment office - already a potential killer ..

            how interesting .. don’t you want to level the Wehrmacht and the Red Army? or for you the genocide of civilians in the USSR is the same as the destruction of the 6th army of Paulus in Stalingrad?
            something you hesitated wink
            Quote: Roman070280
            That's what you think..

            Once again, read about Joseph Schultz.
            1. Roman070280 25 February 2020 14: 15 New
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              there is nothing about murder, but about compliance with laws and the constitution

              These are just words ..
              Soldiers of the army of Alexander the Great killed, or acted according to the law ??

              do you want to level the Wehrmacht and the Red Army
              I do not want..

              or for you the genocide of civilians in the USSR is the same as the destruction of the 6th army of Paulus in Stalingrad?
              And where does the genocide, when it was initially completely different ..

              Every German soldier who has come to the lands of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia


              Genocide, atrocities, violence and so on are one thing .. And "a soldier who has come to a foreign land" is another thing .. I have not mentioned Chechnya for nothing ..

              Just understand .. if the soldier’s task was not to "come to a foreign land", then the soldier would not exist in nature ..
              If there is a lock - then there must be a key ..
              1. Sanichsan 25 February 2020 15: 35 New
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                Quote: Roman070280
                Just understand .. if the soldier’s task was not to "come to a foreign land", then the soldier would not exist in nature ..
                If there is a lock - then there must be a key ..

                terrific thesis! there were no soldiers in Libya. how is it there now? don't want to go there? to a country without an army wink
                you fundamentally perverted the idea. yes First of all, the army was created to protect its country and its citizens.
                Quote: Roman070280
                I didn’t mention Chechnya for nothing ..

                for nothing, for nothing. by the fact that what happened in Chechnya was preceded by a very large-scale massacre of Russians. the army was not supposed to protect them? and the second Chechen? or memory has disappeared? wink
                1. Roman070280 25 February 2020 15: 57 New
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                  there were no soldiers in Libya. how is it there now? don't want to go there? to a country without an army
                  I do not want..
                  Did I really write somewhere that against the soldiers ??

                  you fundamentally perverted the idea. yes first of all the army created to protect their country and their citizens.

                  Hallelujah !! Finally, you begin to understand my "idea" ..))
                  The key is designed to open locks ..
                  And to protect from whom the army was created ?? Go on ..


                  by the fact that what happened in Chechnya was preceded by a very large-scale massacre of Russians.
                  We are not talking about reasons, but about the role of a soldier !! And what preceded it - this is generally the tenth thing .. because something also preceded this ..

                  the army was not supposed to protect them?
                  If the American massacre begins in China tomorrow, will the US have to send an army against China ?? Well, well .. let it be so ..
                  And then it will be necessary for all American soldiers who came to Chinese land to be declared criminals ?? By analogy with "Every German soldier who came to the lands of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia"

                  It’s just interesting to understand you ..
                  1. Sanichsan 25 February 2020 18: 06 New
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                    Quote: Roman070280
                    Hallelujah !! Finally, you begin to understand my "idea" ..))
                    The key is designed to open locks ..
                    And to protect from whom the army was created ?? Go on ..

                    so what do you want to say? I'm already confused laughing the very existence of the army is criminal, or use for attack?
                    Quote: Roman070280
                    We are not talking about reasons, but about the role of a soldier !! And what preceded it - this is generally the tenth thing .. because something also preceded this ..

                    ok, let's talk about the soldiers. a person, if he is not a finished cattle, always has a choice whether to execute a criminal order or not. a vivid example of Joseph Schulz (I often mention him because not many Germans were able to refuse to comply with criminal orders) who refused to shoot and, as a result, was shot by colleagues. he refused, the rest of the Wehrmacht soldiers did not refuse. moreover, participation in the genocide was not performed in all parts. some officers did not give their units orders to participate in executions and it should be noted that they were not sent to a concentration camp for this.
                    Quote: Roman070280
                    If the American massacre begins in China tomorrow, will the US have to send an army against China ??

                    massacre?!? ha ha ha wassat US "enough to threaten the health of US citizens" wink Do you remember Panama?
                    Quote: Roman070280
                    And then it will be necessary for all American soldiers who came to Chinese land to be declared criminals ??

                    stop stop here we are talking about the fact that the Wehrmacht is not to blame. not a specific soldier, but the entire Wehrmacht. they tell you about the criminal actions of the Wehrmacht as an organization. about proven crimes. the Germans are trying to justify the Wehrmacht as an organization, despite the fact that the Wehrmacht participated in crimes as well as the SS.
                    Is the US Army guilty of what happened in Song Mi? or do you want to say that the US Army has nothing to do with it? it was not they who protected from responsibility this beast which is their soldiers?
                    1. Roman070280 26 February 2020 09: 01 New
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                      so what do you want to say? am i already confused laughing the very existence of the army is criminal, or use for attack?

                      Well, if soldiers exist for war .. in order to kill .. Then yes - the very existence is criminal ..))
                      A soldier must be declared a criminal, not yet waiting until he sets foot on someone’s land .. (since he is a soldier, and his mission is to fight, sooner or later he sets foot)

                      goodlet's talk about the soldiers. a person, if he is not a finished cattle, always has a choice whether to execute a criminal order or not. a vivid example of Joseph Schulz (I often mention him because not many Germans were able to refuse to comply with criminal orders) who refused to shoot and eventually shot by colleagues. he refused, the rest of the Wehrmacht soldiers did not refuse.
                      So what good is there ..
                      But I often mentioned Chechnya .. Maybe someone thinks that there peace did not die from our shelling ?? Straight never ?? Maybe it was necessary to refuse ?? Like that Schultz .. And go to the tribunal ??

                      moreover, participation in the genocide was not performed in all parts. some officers did not give orders to participate in executions and it should be noted that they were not sent to a concentration camp for this.
                      Well .. and you said-write down as criminals ..))

                      stop stop here we are talking about the fact that the Wehrmacht is not to blame.
                      Where was this discussed ?? Do not remember that..))

                      not a specific soldier, but the entire Wehrmacht. they tell you about the criminal actions of the Wehrmacht as an organization. about proven crimes.
                      It seemed to me that it was just about the soldiers that came up .. to which I initially answered .. "all those who set foot on our land are criminals"
                      1. Sanichsan 26 February 2020 15: 40 New
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                        Quote: Roman070280
                        Well, if soldiers exist for war .. in order to kill .. Then yes - the very existence is criminal ..))

                        yes you? excuse me, but it smacks of complete isolation from reality and idiocy (according to Dostoevsky of course!) yes the denial that the use of violence in certain cases is completely legitimate is a gross manipulation of facts and a distortion of reality. yes Or are you Prince Myshkin in the world of illusions? laughing
                        Quote: Roman070280
                        A soldier must be declared a criminal, not yet waiting until he sets foot on someone’s land .. (since he is a soldier, and his mission is to fight, sooner or later he sets foot)
                        well, it’s only if the country is led by perfect inadequate people who don’t understand that if they don’t have their own soldiers, then they will feed foreign soldiers ... if they will be alive at that moment. the army defends the interests of the country and citizens with weapons and at the same time risk their own lives.
                        but those who carry the nonsense that you wrote is really worth declaring criminals. these are direct calls for the weakening and destruction of the country, and it is completely logical that the one who calls for this is the enemy of the country wink enemy of the people if you want laughing
                        Quote: Roman070280
                        So what good is there ..
                        But I often mentioned Chechnya .. Maybe someone thinks that there peace did not die from our shelling ?? Straight never ?? Maybe it was necessary to refuse ?? Like that Schultz .. And go to the tribunal ??

                        for starters, you would read the definition of war crime, familiarize yourself with international standards, from the right you look like a comedian laughing war crime is intentional the destruction of civilians in the first place. come on, publish orders on the destruction of the Chechen civilian population. so there is no such thing. excessive use of force? again does not come out to pull. about! remembered! there was a case with Budanov ... well, he wasn’t given such orders, and the wording that the sniper becomes civilian as soon as he threw the rifle into the bushes is also dubious, but Budanov unwound it for 10 years. it seems you so often remember Chechnya simply by the fact that you like to take a nap laughing maybe it’s similar to a schoolchild and may impress but not a mature person, who also caused these events.
                        Now about Schultz ... excuse me, what did Schultz go under? under which tribunal? what? laughing you write again without understanding what it is about? he had a choice. he refused to shoot and stood next to the people being shot and shot him without any tribunal.
                        Quote: Roman070280
                        Well .. and you said-write down as criminals ..))

                        where? belay in your imagination? well, the one in your imagination has nothing to do with me wink I did not write this.
                        Quote: Roman070280
                        Where was this discussed ?? Do not remember that..))

                        oops ... you want to say that they jumped to discuss without reading the article? Well, run to read! laughing first paragraph:
                        "History in post-war Germany, as in any other country, has evolved. And its very first revolution was the myth of the “pure Wehrmacht”, which supposedly did not stain itself in crimes on the Eastern Front. "and more ...
                        Quote: Roman070280
                        It seemed to me that it was just about the soldiers that came up .. to which I initially answered .. "all those who set foot on our land are criminals"
                        hmm .. like Napoleon’s soldiers were not recorded as criminals? and with the Germans in 41 won! maybe the thing is what the soldiers did? wink
                        writing everyone down as criminals is also ridiculous how to write everyone down as innocent, especially given the facts. however, in accordance with the facts, the Wehrmacht is definitely a criminal organization, as it issued criminal orders and executed criminal orders. soldier
                      2. Roman070280 27 February 2020 09: 08 New
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                        well, it’s only if the country is led by perfect inadequate people who don’t understand that if they don’t have their own soldiers, then they will feed other soldiers ...
                        How does this cancel the presence of soldiers, and the fact that they are stepping on foreign land ??
                        Enough already for reasons to delve .. if-not if ... will, will not ..
                        The third time I write - there is a lock - there must be a key ..
                        There is a soldier in one country - there will be war .. sooner or later ..
                        There is a soldier in the second country - even for protection - Again - there will be a war ..
                        Feed your army. or someone else’s - this is the tenth matter, and we didn’t talk about it ..
                        For in any situation - the war will remain a war .. And soldiers are fighting in it ..
                        Which you call criminals ..

                        and here those who carry the nonsense that you wrote really worth it to declare criminals. these are direct calls for weakening and destroying the country,
                        The fact that all the soldiers who set foot on a foreign land must be declared criminals - it was you who wrote, not me .. so don’t have to shift foreign rubbish on me ..))
                        And about the calls for the weakening and destruction of the country .. it seems that the forum branches were mistaken .. I haven’t heard about this anywhere before ..

                        war crime is the intentional destruction of the civilian population in the first place. come on, publish orders

                        So publish the orders .. Based on which "any a German soldier who set foot on Ukrainian, Russian, Belarusian land should be considered a criminal "

                        Well .. and you said - all write to criminals ..))
                        Where? belay in your imagination? well, that, in your imagination, has nothing to do with me; wink, I did not write this.

                        Every German soldierwho came to the lands of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia in 1941 is a criminal.


                        I think, after this, the conversation can be completed .. For this is all I wanted to say ..
  • EvilLion 19 February 2020 08: 44 New
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    The main function of the army in the genocide is the identification and identification of Jews, the construction of concentration camps and filling them with unhappiness.


    The army can do only 2 things: to kill whom they order, and not to let them kill without orders. ALL. The army cannot and will not search for Jews, etc. To burn a dozen villages as part of a punitive operation is another matter. Germans in general from any Hungarians and other half-gangs who were engaged in criminal activity for the most part, for which ours they preferred to kill them more sophisticatedly, although not sophisticatedly, apparently, they were distinguished by organized violence. It’s not about them to steal chickens, but girls should not rape them, they either will not touch anyone without need, or they will arrange total terror. And to arrange total terror, you need what? Right, permission. And his German power officially issued them. And what difference does it make to us now how each individual colonel or company commander perceived this permission? German authorities officially allowed the German soldier to turn into scum. And it will turn into scum, not immediately, and not without exception, but it will be, all the more so since the army in the mass are young guys who still have no brains. I see no reason to catch the individual rank-and-file and junior officers who actually grew up under Hitler, and could sincerely believe that the Untermensch live in the east, and all the misfortunes in the fleetland are from the Jews. But the demand from the colonels is already full and the orders from Berlin justify no one. The very question of the guilt of the Wehrmacht is meaningless and shifts the responsibility to do not understand anyone. People are always guilty, and in the 45th they seemed to understand this, therefore the same SS men simply were not dragged to court for formal membership.

    What did the Russians enter Berlin? But what does this mean in our time? It meant something in the time of Frederick the Great.


    If necessary, we’ll enter Washington, too, and the German docent unexpectedly burns out in a nuclear flame, simply because millions of Russians do not want a repetition of the Second World War and do not understand if even local aggression from NATO, the Russian Armed Forces do not respond with an immediate nuclear strike. The lives of German children and associate professors are not worth the lives of our people. And it’s just such “docents” or some offended that their grandmother in the 45th had to give a Russian soldier for a can of American condensed milk, and then she was trembling that she was allegedly raped, who did not want to see what happened, nor how it happened , nor how it is estimated in Russia, are the main danger in terms of the emergence of the 3rd World War.

    An associate professor should pray for parades, because for us this largely reduces the War to the sport in which we won, and the question, it seems, is closed. The same Chinese and young Asians in general, the Japanese are unlikely to be more genocidal than the Soviet population, but China did not win the war, the Americans kicked the Japanese, and then we added, and all of South East Asia now hates the Japanese, they have victories no, only suffering and humiliation.
    1. Pushkar 19 February 2020 12: 27 New
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      Quote: EvilLion
      I see no reason to catch the individual rank-and-file and junior officers who actually grew up under Hitler, and could sincerely believe that the Untermensch live in the east, and all the misfortunes in the fleetland are from the Jews.

      "How easy it is to be guilty of nothing, a very simple soldier, a soldier ..." So, is it, "kolya from Urengoy"?
    2. Octopus 19 February 2020 12: 40 New
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      Quote: EvilLion
      An associate professor should pray for parades, because for us this largely reduces the war to the sport in which we won, and the question, it seems, is closed

      The WWII monument looks like this.

      This is what the German liberal is trying to explain to you.
      Quote: EvilLion
      if necessary, we’ll also enter Washington, and a German assistant professor will unexpectedly burn himself in a nuclear flame

      Consequently, it’s time for the assistant professor to stop whining about WWII and begin to demand physicists from German nuclear weapons from their colleagues so that the Russians behave quieter already. The same is true for any European country that has the ability to create nuclear weapons.
      1. EvilLion 25 February 2020 14: 02 New
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        Russians already behave quietly and spare the ancestors of this professor. So now his opinion is not interesting to us, and to be offended by an instant response in megatons in case of revenge on their part, too.
      2. EvilLion 25 February 2020 14: 05 New
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        In general, go, the whole country, for the demographic pyramid to finish that grandfathers in the 45th did not finish. And then you can not celebrate with tears in his eyes.
    3. Sanichsan 25 February 2020 13: 50 New
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      Quote: EvilLion
      The same Chinese and young Asians in general, the Japanese are hardly stronger than genocide

      badly mistaken. which one Nanjing is worth .. there (in China) by 39 already, about 24 million were cut.
  • 2112vda 19 February 2020 08: 46 New
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    War is a terrible thing. Judging all Germans is also not right. Near Stalingrad, in the winter of 1942, my family, grandmother, aunt and mother, two "warriors of the world", that is, Ukrainian colorants, were about to be shot. The reasons for the reprisal were known only to him. The German officer saved from reprisal, put a gun under his nose and threw him out of the house. My family is Ukrainians, now, after what the "warriors of the world" are doing in the Donbass, I began to understand why my grandmother did not like Ukrainians from the center and west of Ukraine. These "garner lads" robbed and muzzled the local population worse than the Germans.
    1. akunin 19 February 2020 11: 39 New
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      but the German soldier nearly pierced my father with a bayonet. the Germans broke into the house and began to turn everything over, the father was chesty, yelled with a fright, and the German could see a delicate musical ear ... my grandmother barely dissuaded me for the genocide of the German people.
    2. EvilLion 25 February 2020 14: 06 New
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      And this is the difference between the Wehrmacht and ukroband, including modern ones. People came across in the Wehrmacht, only those who were already a beast went into gangs.
  • Avior 19 February 2020 08: 55 New
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    About the memory in Germany.
    In Germany, there are many memorials to the victims of Nazism, Soviet soldiers, but at the same time there are many monuments to both victims of peaceful Germans who died in World War II and the military.

    I shot it in Würzburg
    The upper one is a monument to the Germans who were victims of the bombing of Würzburg, the lower to the German soldiers who died in two wars, there is a large memorial in the park near the residence of the archbishop.

    Szadistella with the names of the victims.
    As I understand it, reminds the Germans that not only the Germans killed, but also them?
  • BAI
    BAI 19 February 2020 08: 57 New
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    Of course, great losses are constantly being blamed on the USSR. At the same time, it is silent that the Wehrmacht purposefully destroyed the civilian population, but the Red Army - no. And if we compare the structure of losses, we will see that most of the losses of the USSR are civil.
  • Yrec 19 February 2020 09: 12 New
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    There is an iron law of war - woe to the vanquished! If the winner pities the enemy who attacked him, in the eyes of ALL is weakness, not generosity. An unfinished enemy is always more dangerous, he prays for mercy, but in his soul he is embittered and longs for revenge. Leaving him alive means giving him a second chance. On the "humane" is always morally easier to attack, even if you blow it - he will spare. If the USSR would have acted with Germany with comrades, just as they did with it, now there would be no attempt to revise the results of WWII. Any state respects only military force and nothing more. If you are strong and ready to use force against anyone who dares to blather in your direction - you are respected. Otherwise, everyone wipes their feet about you and try to get hold of you. There is no "international law" and "mutual respect" in the world, there is only the right of the strong to dictate terms.
    1. akunin 19 February 2020 11: 33 New
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      Ay Maladets +100500 hi
    2. Octopus 19 February 2020 12: 30 New
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      Quote: Yrec
      Leaving him alive means giving him a second chance. On the "humane" is always morally easier to attack, even if you blow it - he will spare

      How interesting. Do you also apply these ideas to the USSR of '91?
  • ZaharoFF 19 February 2020 09: 35 New
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    It’s hard to live in shame, it’s just understandable. Estimates have long been given. Talking about acquisitions is not tactful. Although words such as “tact” will soon finally come out of the spoken language, they have already left the journalistic one.
  • lukewarm 19 February 2020 09: 40 New
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    A strange feeling from this article. Does the title match the content? Ask about the "acquisitions" of Russia, and talk about the degree of guilt of the Wehrmacht and the anti-Nazi exhibition! The very formulation of the question is provocative: "Has Russia acquired?" Firstly, there was no state with that name then, there was the USSR. As soon as we talk about history. Has gained?! Did he start this war? To fuck something? For that matter, it gained freedom, sovereignty and defended the right to life. Is this not enough? We are silent about Eastern Europe.
    Moreover, it can be argued that the history of the Holocaust should be studied in more detail in Russian schools, which now, unfortunately, is not observed. In this sense, it is useful to take an example from German school history textbooks..

    However. If memory serves, the Holocaust FIRST of all means the genocide of the Jews. Both repentance and compensation are primarily for them. Later, the "rest" was pulled under this concept. My opinion is that it is necessary to study, but without all these European-tolerant terms. Start with Hitler's parting words: "Kill all Russian, Soviet, don’t even stop ..." and hereinafter. It must be remembered. How to turn it to modern Germans? The big question. Several generations have grown. Won't we get the opposite effect from this "cult of repentance"? Here a German at school repents, repents for his great-grandfather, whom he never knew. Then a migrant on the street knocks him in turnips. Then someone “smart and kind” will say to him: “Maybe enough?” And everything is new. Indeed, national socialism in Germany grew on the basis of its humiliation after the defeat in the First World War. What does the world community want from Germany now? Moreover, the recognition of the Holocaust, the cult of repentance go hand in hand with a review of the outcome of the Second World War and the blackening of the memory of our fallen? How to deal with this?
    1. SID
      SID 19 February 2020 11: 01 New
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      Quote: unwillingly
      Indeed, national socialism in Germany grew on the basis of its humiliation after the defeat in the First World War.

      National Socialism and its subsequent transformation into fascism have grown on the basis of the desire for their exclusivity, expansion and enslavement. The basis for all this history was the theory of the exclusiveness of the German spirit, racial purity and the rule of supreme race over others. Hence, all the counts, the search for the causes and the production of conclusions should begin.
      1. lukewarm 19 February 2020 13: 14 New
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        I do not argue. The basis is yes. But was something supposed to give a push? No matter how national humiliation and shame? Multiplied by post-war poverty.
  • Roman070280 19 February 2020 09: 41 New
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    The most unpleasant thing in this tirade is that in the minds of many of our compatriots such a thing wanders, and they often dare to voice it.

    Actually, there is a lot of truth in the words of this doctor Heinz .. You just need to be able to look at things a little wider ..
  • SID
    SID 19 February 2020 10: 46 New
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    Question to the author:
    Cit. author:
    БMoreover, it can be argued that the history of the Holocaust should be studied in more detail in Russian schools, which now, unfortunately, is not observed. In this sense, it is useful to take an example from German school history textbooks..

    Does the author know that in addition to the Jews in the Great Patriotic War, all the inhabitants of the occupied territory of the USSR were subjected to genocide? The losses of the civilian population of the USSR are millions ... Who died more: Slavs or Jews? Why does the school need to study what happened to the Jewish people, and what happened to others can be left without study? What about our schools with a policy of annihilation and enslavement of the entire Soviet people? Is it worth it to highlight the atrocities of fascist Germany in schools regarding the Slavs, Tatars, and the peoples of the Caucasus? If so, in what turn and in what kind of accent? What is more important for Russian schoolchildren: the atrocities of German fascism regarding Jews or regarding Russians, Belorussian, Ukrainians, ...?
    1. Pushkar 19 February 2020 12: 46 New
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      Quote: SID
      Who died more: Slavs or Jews?

      Well, of course, the Slavs. If you take in absolute numbers. And in percentage? 100% of Jews in the territory controlled by the Nazis. This is the Holocaust. And do not contrast. Everyone understands that if it were not for the Soviet people and the Red Army under the leadership of I.V. Stalin, then the Slavs would have expected the same fate. And Russian schoolchildren should know EVERYTHING. For that, and education.
      1. SID
        SID 19 February 2020 13: 18 New
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        Quote: Pushkar
        And do not contrast


        What kind of contrast is this? Point a shadow on a wattle fence.
        The foregoing is not about contrasting, but about priority and proportionality.

        "100% percent of Jews in Nazi-controlled territory"- this, by the way, is far from the truth.

        If it were, as you said: "Everyone understands that if it were not for the Soviet people and the Red Army under the leadership of I.V. Stalin, the Slavs would have expected the same fate"then there would be no talk of a sim. As we can see, not everyone can understand now. What will happen to the next generation tomorrow depends on what we will teach children at school today.
        1. Pushkar 19 February 2020 17: 21 New
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          Quote: SID
          What kind of contrast is this? Point a shadow on a wattle fence.

          "What is more important for Russian schoolchildren: the atrocities of German fascism regarding Jews or regarding Russians, Belorussian, Ukrainians, ...?" Is this not a contrast?
          Quote: SID
          "100% of the Jews in the territory controlled by the Nazis" - this, by the way, is far from the truth.

          How much do you think? To whom the Nazis reached - all are dead.
          1. SID
            SID 20 February 2020 13: 13 New
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            Quote: Pushkar

            "What is more important for Russian schoolchildren: the atrocities of German fascism regarding Jews or regarding Russians, Belorussian, Ukrainians, ...?" Is this not a contrast?

            No, yeperesate ... This is PRIORITY.

            Quote: Pushkar
            How much do you think?

            Dismiss this ... hi
    2. lukewarm 19 February 2020 13: 19 New
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      I do not understand why "-". I also learned about the study of the Holocaust in Russian schools. Googled specifically, Wikipedia ( laughing oh, fount) says that "in a broad sense"This is the genocide of all. Well, the Jews essno in the first place.
      1. SID
        SID 19 February 2020 16: 39 New
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        Quote: unwillingly
        for what "-"

        I did not understand what kind of "-" speech. I didn’t minus anything, and I don’t touch anything “-”.
        If about "-" to my post, then almost any of my comments are mined almost automatically in the HZ mode. how and why ... request

        Quote: unwillingly
        Wikipedia ... states that "in a broad sense" is the genocide of all. Well, the Jews essno in the first place.

        Just so that the Holocaust is about Them. And the rest are "too" and "by the way." Sly thing. Ambiguity. Well, in this case, in our time, there should not be any ambiguity. Therefore, in this case should use strictly defined terms. The term "Holocaust" for the "arts" of German fascism in the occupied territories of the USSR is definitely not suitable.
        1. lukewarm 19 February 2020 16: 48 New
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          Quote: SID
          I did not understand what kind of "-" speech.

          wink I’m talking about that "loop of minuses" to you. In my opinion, there’s nothing at all.
  • Kostadinov 19 February 2020 11: 09 New
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    Russians gained nothing from this war

    1. The Russians acquired the right to peace, to their land and to life. The aggressor wanted to take away these rights.
    2. The price of victory is always many times lower than the price of defeat. Look at Poland. German occupation cost 10 times more lives than resistance. How many victims could the decades of German occupation of the USSR cost? Let Dr. Heinz figure out.
    3. The Russians took away the Germans' desire to attack them for a long time, maybe a bit forever. Until May 9, 1945, the Germans attacked the Russians twice in 30 years. And then they calmed down and for 75 years there has been no war with the Germans.
    4. And in the last place no 40 million of the USSR was lost in the war. I understand that Dr. Heinz wants more Russian victims, but they weren’t beaten by 40 million and that’s why they won the war and didn’t lose
  • Selevc 19 February 2020 11: 09 New
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    To whom the war and to whom the gain !!! World War II, with all its grandiose events, is the biggest scam of the 2th century !!! Actually what happened? Another Entente with the help of Soviet Russia stopped the growth and development of Germany !!!
    The political events in Europe and the world that preceded World War II are completely mysterious, foggy or oblivious ... We can say that the subsequent dramatic events of the World War overshadowed the very important but less vivid events that led to it ... The world capitalist elites systematically led the powers of the European continent for the next Great Slaughter !!! It is this and nothing else that can explain the alternate flirting of the Anglo-Americans with Hitler or with Stalin ... And the Munich conspiracy is a clear fact that Germany was pushed east !!! Only the desire to pit Germany and Russia can explain the strange war on the 2th year on the Western Front ... Anglo-Americans masters fight with the wrong hands - they actually did this in Europe and in the 39st and 1nd world ...
    After World War I, the United States became a superpower, and after World War II, they emerged from the economic depression, established the primacy of the dollar throughout the world, gained unprecedented economic and scientific growth, overtook the whole world in an arms race and owned about 1% of the world's gold reserves .. . That's who really needed a big world carnage and who made money on it !!!
    1. lukewarm 19 February 2020 13: 26 New
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      I agree with the second part, and the first sounds provocative. I guess you probably wanted to say
      Quote: Selevc
      Another Entente with the help of Soviet Russia stopped the growth and development of Germany !!!
      Yes. But not “with the help” (for it is supposed to be voluntary) but by sacrificing. Well, the "growth and development of Germany" was somewhat peculiar. In general, with the connivance of the collective west, Germany threw a bolt on the Treaty of Versailles, restored the Armed Forces (again on American loans) and, in its rapid growth, rushed to devour its neighbors. That I am still silent about ideology. So much in common with ISIS. Soon a century will pass and the same manuals. Only the performers crushed. Everything is repeated, but already as a farce.
      1. Selevc 19 February 2020 18: 40 New
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        Quote: unwillingly
        Yes. But not “with the help” (for it is supposed to be voluntary) but by sacrificing. Well, the "growth and development of Germany" was somewhat peculiar.
        Direct analogies with the 19th century, only replace Germany with France and Hitler with Napoleon ... Another adjustment is necessary - the 20th century is the century of pragmatism
        and not romance, and the scale of others as a result of scientific and technological progress ..
  • akunin 19 February 2020 11: 24 New
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    The problem, according to Roemer, was that in the initial period of the campaign both sides were so stained with blood that "a return to the forms of a" normal European war "was ruled out."
    the enemy came to my land, and I thank him, please, bro, etc.? I am for genocide, good (in German), to bloody snot and diarrhea (do not touch us, let's live peacefully).
  • Kostadinov 19 February 2020 11: 26 New
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    Quote: Selevc
    After World War I, the United States became a superpower, and after World War II, they emerged from the economic depression, established the primacy of the dollar throughout the world, gained unprecedented economic and scientific growth, overtook the whole world in an arms race and owned about 1% of the world's gold reserves .. That’s who really needed a big world massacre and who earned it !!!

    Vyu UTB understood, but Hitler and his entourage did not understand and attacked the USSR. With their own hands they destroyed their Reich. So it's your own fault, and the US took advantage of their stupidity.
    1. Selevc 19 February 2020 18: 25 New
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      Quote: Kostadinov
      Vyu UTB understood, but Hitler and his entourage did not understand and attacked the USSR

      Actually, the 2nd World War began with Hitler’s attack on Poland, and it was Britain that declared war on Germany and not vice versa ... So who really is the arsonist of the world war still needs to be very, very sorted out ... Germany developed economically very quickly at 30 -s (especially in the 2nd half) and in many ways caught up with Britain - it was necessary to do something very quickly ... War is like a murder; it comes from hopelessness, and only as a last resort - in fact, they did !!! Anglo-Americans with the help of World War II eliminated a competitor for world domination by the hands of another competitor ... Is this not a brilliant move from the point of view of big politics ???
  • Old Orc 19 February 2020 11: 46 New
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    The behavior of an individual largely depends on society. but society also consists of individual individuals. Conclusion The Germans' behavior was determined by fascist ideology. But the fascist ideology was created individually by each individual German, with the exception of the few who fought with it. Therefore, all Germans are responsible for war crimes. and the Wehrmacht that seized the earth for further purification from the inferior is already responsible.
  • Zum
    Zum 19 February 2020 11: 46 New
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    Lord! Less "cheers of patriotism", more objectivity .... in war, as in war, orders need to be executed, but much depends on a specific person or group of people .... some of the German soldiers distributed bread to hungry Russian children, who Some of the Russian women and old men treated and gave shelter to German soldiers, without coercion ....... and some of the Germans robbed and killed to hide the traces of the crime ..... someone even gave birth to children from the Germans ..... and all because in the war there is life too, and not slogans or statistics in numbers ........ the war lives on the suffering of people, this is its blood, it is foolish to underestimate or exaggerate the suffering of one or the other ........ soldiers from the USSR suffered from the beginning, and then Reich citizens suffered. The Soviet Union defeated the "millennium" Reich, but in the end Germany won, which we are witnesses to ......
    1. lukewarm 19 February 2020 13: 36 New
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      You can talk about the results over a period of time. SSR won and point. Then there was another war and other victories and defeats. If you look at the standard of living (which we usually compare? VAZ with Mercedes.), Then yes, it won. But in fact, they have always had this level higher. And the rest ... What is the victory of Germany? Is it that she again teamed up with the "light" hand of a labeled geek and Shevarnadze? Now she was captivated by migrants, it will be worse than the Soviet occupation. And so for a short time to agree to "would drink the Bavarian" hi
      1. Zum
        Zum 19 February 2020 15: 55 New
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        Dear Pavel, you need to look at the world and things around globally, and not short-sightedly, when a person is educated, I emphasize, and not just have an education ....... well-versed in various aspects of politics and history, including military history , then it can compare all the information and summarize it, by means of analysis and is not in public or ideological blinkers .....
        My grandfather, now deceased, a military man, was drafted to the front in 18 to take into account the PTR, spent about three months in Ukraine, then he was sent to a tank school, he never returned to war, he just graduated from school and it ended, after eight years in the tank forces he was transferred to the Strategic Rocket Forces, and so he completed his track record, and he worked with equipment, instead of shifting pieces of paper at the headquarters ...... So, what am I doing, he told me directly .. ........... his quote .... about veterans "they saw little, but they knew even less" ..... and told how the soldiers fled to they shot in the air, for me it was a shock, then I, as a teenager, didn’t understand at all ..... how ??? ......... they should shoot at the enemy ..... he just smiled at it .... and answered .......... fear and herd instinct ....... that's the truth ...... and he never considered himself a hero, although gave his whole life to the defense of the USSR, but Stalin was an unquestioned authority for him .....
        1. lukewarm 19 February 2020 16: 30 New
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          A lot of text, but I respect your grandfather. Your advice, excuse me, is somewhat arrogant. We are not in the audience, and I am not your student. Just how does what you say answer the question asked? It is proposed to think out for yourself
          Quote: Zum
          by means of analysis and is not in public or ideological blinkers .....
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Zum
            Zum 19 February 2020 17: 35 New
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            Even the thoughts did not have a “mentor” tone, and there isn’t much text, the costs of the modern information space do not allow the individual to think calmly and consistently, everything needs fast, fast food, quick information, fast emotion ..... and the result .. .............. everything that comes quickly, quickly and disappears .......
  • Kostadinov 19 February 2020 12: 02 New
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    Quote: Zum
    The Soviet Union defeated the “millennium” Reich, but in the end Germany won, which we are witnesses to

    As a result, the defeat of the German Reich defeated all the peoples of the USSR and the world, including the German people. And from the victory of the Reich, they could also lose everything.
    1. andrew42 19 February 2020 15: 12 New
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      The fact that the European colony of the American Kaganate is trying to write a fake story is not surprising. And the Germans themselves, by the way, do not play the first violin in this, since the cat, though it blinks, remembers "whose meat was eaten." He remembers so far. On the other hand, it is wild to hear exclamations from our side that they say that we have not paid enough to the Germans. History teaches that you need to create allies for yourself, and not produce enemies in vain, then you yourself will be alive. The Polish historical anti-example is direct proof of this. Our position should be brief and clear: 1) The German Reich inflicted terrible grief on the peoples of Russia. 2) The Germans were idiots for 2 reasons: 2a) because they themselves were consumable rams, 2b) because, thanks to Hitler's crooks, they fell into the bait of the "struggle for the purity of the Aryan race", in fact, unleashed a war to destroy the largest ethnic group of the Aryan peoples. 3) The Soviet Union, that is, Russia, and all the peoples of Russia, cured of this idiocy of the Germans. Our grandfathers paid such a price that the Germans did not pay until the last days of the existence of the German nation. 4) If once again Germany allows itself to "drang nah osten", then Germany will no longer be. This is our firm promise. 5) The palm of Russia is open to cooperation and to an alliance with modern Germany. This should be the position. And about the fact that the Germans paid little there, our front-line soldiers were smarter than the current exclamators. K. Simonov to help you.
      1. andrew42 19 February 2020 15: 13 New
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        In Berlin, on a cold stage,
        A German wounded in Spain sang
        For treason
        Executed for the eyes in advance
        Five times buried by friends
        Five times the Gestapo,
        Now make-up, then broken in prisons,
        Then again with a needle in the stack dropped.
        ......................................
        We walked from the concert with him tired
        Hugging like a soldier with a soldier
        In those ruined neighborhoods
        Where I walked in May forty-fifth.
        I walked with this German, as with a brother,
        Walked by a long stone cemetery
        Recently taken and damned
        Today is just an ashes.
        And I mourned with him, with this German,
        What, the prison is driven and overcoming,
        Once upon a time, in the thirty-third,
        He failed to save his city.

        1948 (K. Simonov)
  • Host Tavern 19 February 2020 13: 52 New
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    Mdaaa. No wonder this happens in schools. The Japanese think that we bombed them, and the world, that the USSR is to blame for the Second World War.
    Sadly all this! recourse
  • TANKISTONE 19 February 2020 14: 22 New
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    Jews with their Lochocaust achieved, it would be necessary for Soviet citizens and their descendants to put pressure on the UN, EU, etc. in recognizing the genocide of our people! Here are just the modern Russian “headman”, they themselves are slowly distorting our history, and to wait for support from them - to feed ourselves with illusions ... And it would be possible to end any speech at every international official speech with the words “Carthage must be destroyed!” , i.e. the genocide of the Slavic people must be recognized! And to come up with a name so that Russophobes are afraid, as they are afraid to be known as anti-Semites ...
    1. andrew42 19 February 2020 20: 40 New
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      There is a problem with the authorities, which they are very, very afraid of. They are afraid of an order of magnitude more than any sanctions there and even the loss of offshore companies, more than the nationalization of industry. This problem is that the genocide of the Russian people (if this question is posed) will have to be waged not from 1941, but from February 1917, from that same "Gus" revolution, through the Civil War and the suppression of the village of the 20s. The current elite is so fond of scolding the Communists as such, but never admits that the pair of revolutions of 1917 is an anti-Russian project in its very concept, parasitically attached to the Russian desire for justice. Therefore, for the whole bunch of pro-power experts, the overthrow of the autocratic monarchy is good (because the Russian one), but the Stalinist correction (which forced the new red masters to build socialism) is bad. So they sing.
  • vik669 19 February 2020 14: 51 New
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    Yes, it seems that they have lost so much, but what they have gained is lost and given away!
  • Alexey RA 19 February 2020 14: 52 New
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    Actually, before the beginning of the 80s in the Federal Republic of Germany it was the Einsatzgruppe SS and SD who blamed all crimes on the Eastern Front, leaving the Wehrmacht a clean and professional army.

    It is interesting how this point of view was combined with three well-known orders from the Wehrmacht:
    "On the application of military jurisdiction in the Barbarossa region and on special measures of the troops."
    "Order of the OKW on the treatment of Soviet prisoners of war in all prisoner of war camps."
    "Directive on the treatment of political commissars."

    Or with the fact that the notorious concentration camps for prisoners of war - stalag and dulag - were under the jurisdiction of the Wehrmacht.
    Clean and professional army fed prisoners of war, for example, with this:
    ... “flour” is chaff with an insignificant admixture of starch (1,7%). The presence of starch indicates the presence in the test mass of an insignificant amount of flour, apparently formed from grains accidentally falling into the straw during threshing. Eating “bread” prepared from this flour entailed starvation, alimentary dystrophy, in its cachectic and edematous forms, and contributed to the spread among Soviet prisoners of war of severe intestinal and gastric diseases, usually ending in death.
  • Operator 19 February 2020 15: 05 New
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    "" The Russians have not gained anything from this war ", - like the Russians do not have the world's largest nuclear missile potential and it cannot remotely glaze, moreover, several times, the entire territory of Germany.

    And the Germans, therefore, have their own primordial Vaterland with East Prussia, Silesia and the Sudetenland, sovereignty, armed forces and a seat of a UN Security Council member with veto power. And the Ministry of Defense of Germany is headed by a man, and only supporters of Christian (and not Sodomite and multicultural) values ​​go out to mass demonstrations laughing
  • DWG1905 19 February 2020 16: 41 New
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    The question of responsibility is simple for me (my grandfather went missing at 43) all who were enemies on the other side of the front and were subject to destruction. The war against us was to destroy in the first place, it is not forgiven. Russia is certainly not holy, but we did not wage wars aimed at extermination. After surrender, the responsibility of those who were on the other side of the front is not removed once and their descendants, too. Next was the policy, probably not quite effective if they retreated to Smolensk. After all, the Germans did not change as they considered themselves to be the supreme race and believe so (only now on the sly). Whether the Germans are now enemies in principle, yes, they will remain them in the future, probably yes. Is it possible to take off cooperation as necessary, too, yes. Does it excite me that they think and write no there, they are enemies and enemies. But to wage an information war, corrupting the enemy and instilling a sense of guilt (not persistent and naive), yes. After all, the war did not end; forms of conduct are changing.
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  • Vladimir Mashkov 19 February 2020 16: 52 New
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    This is a common modern Western trend: a review of the results of World War II, which precedes the end of the next peace cycle. I remind you that a “peaceful” “democratic” Europe is excited about once every hundred years, attacks Russia, gets in the face and crawls away to lick its wounds and fractures.
  • SID
    SID 19 February 2020 16: 59 New
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    Privat Associate Professor of the University of Bielefeld, Dr. H. Heinz, issued the following: "What kind of victory is this if you have lost 40 million people killed ?! What victory is this ?!"


    Here: or crafty sophistry, propaganda trick; or the schizophrenic logic of an biased "thinker."

    And for the Red Army fighter, and for the worker, and for the collective farmer, the meaning of the confrontation was not in the amount of losses, but in the preservation of their Soviet socialist culture, their system of life values ​​and freedom of development, their native language, their home. Millions of Soviet citizens were killed on the battlefield and in the rear because they would not become slaves of the German "master" themselves and prevent enslavement of their children.

    40 million is a lie.
    20 million were killed precisely because they chose death and not slavery.
    20 million were killed so that the remaining 180 million would live and develop freely, happily.

    And this is the Great Victory without any reservations.
  • Basarev 19 February 2020 17: 01 New
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    But indeed, the Russians did not gain anything from the war, and even more so - they lost much more. There is a point of view according to which victory is a post-war world, more profitable for the winner than the pre-war one. So, in this sense, the USSR lost the Second World War. It can be seen in the example of Europe: before the war, European countries almost did not care about the Union, they enthusiastically gnawed among themselves in a heap of shtetl shit-headed conflicts, such a world was directly beneficial to the Union: against this background, it looked like an island of stability, just like the United States. After the war, everyone, even France and Germany, rallied in a single anti-Soviet impulse, a truly titanium curtain appeared, which the Union still could not overcome - the curtain was gradually dismantled by the west itself, as the Union rotted and became completely harmless.
    1. Selevc 19 February 2020 19: 02 New
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      Quote: Basarev
      There is a point of view according to which victory is a post-war world, more profitable for the winner than the pre-war one. So, in this sense, the USSR lost the Second World War.

      After the war, the expedition then raised Soviet gold from a sunken ship, then they are looking for a ship with Soviet platinum !!!
      Tons of gold and platinum gentlemen - tons !!! You need to explain what the state’s gold reserve is and how much the quotes of securities depend on it, and so on - the entire economy of the country?
      That is why the USSR after the war was not able to create its own economic island of stability and kept up with the West !!! They paid for the so-called Lend-Lease - the invention of the capitalists from Wall Street !!! They paid right up to the beginning of the 60s !!!
      We can say that throughout the 2nd World War and the next 20-30 years, a financial boom reigned in the City of London and on Wall Street - 1000% of the war was going on !!!
  • Brigadier 19 February 2020 22: 56 New
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    The justification of the fascist army is just another attempt to give the main strength of Hitler's Germany - the Wehrmacht, a “human face”, such as “they” are not Essesses or Sonderkommans.
    At the same time, they absolutely forget that it was the “pure” Wehrmacht that killed many more of our people than any Sonderkommando, it was the “Wehrmacht” in the form of its “Luftwaffe” that bombed our cities, destroyed our people and wiped out villages and villages from the face of the earth.

    And further! Wehrmacht justify "there" ...
    Have you forgotten about Kolya from Urengoy? This is not a German. This, as it were, is "ours" ...
  • Spring fluff 20 February 2020 00: 17 New
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    The Hamburg Institute for Social Research in 2001 made a big scandal in German society when it organized the Wehrmacht Crimes exhibition

    As the author thinks, if some Voronezh Humanitarian Institute organized an exhibition of "crimes of the Soviet army" - would there be less scandal?
  • DRM
    DRM 20 February 2020 13: 50 New
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    Judging by the latest video from Syria, the light elves from Wagner have already surpassed the SS and the Gestapo ((They torture for fun !!
  • ser56 20 February 2020 15: 24 New
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    "The Russians gained nothing from this war, they only suffered losses!"
    The German is stupid or fools around, maybe he really doesn’t understand that otherwise they would have simply destroyed us, he doesn’t want to remember the plan of Ost ... It seemed that it was necessary not to feed the Germans from the soldiers' kitchens, but ours didn’t do it because of them, but themselves. ..