There was a message that the Syrian Air Force Mi-17 was shot down by Turkish F-16C

The network continues to discuss data on the downed Mi-17 helicopter of the Syrian Air Force. If initially it was reported that the helicopter was probably attacked from the ground using a portable anti-aircraft missile system, now other data are voiced.

In particular, reports posted by Middle Eastern sources indicate that a Syrian air force helicopter was shot down during a Turkish air raid. There were reports that a helicopter was shot down by a pilot of an F-16C fighter taking off from aviation Incirlik base.

It is further alleged that the attack was carried out using an air-to-air missile from a distance of more than 60 km. The brand of ammunition is also called - AIM-120 AMRAAM. A similar missile at one time was shot down by the MiG-21 of the Indian Air Force. Then a blow in the Kashmir region was inflicted by a Pakistani military pilot.

The Turkish Ministry of Defense confirms the loss of a Syrian Air Force military helicopter. However, it has not yet officially commented on the statements about striking the Mi-17 from the F-16C.

If the strike was really delivered from a distance of more than 60 km, then, most likely, the Turkish air force did not enter the airspace of the ATS.

It is important to pay attention to the fact that there is still no video from the militants about the moment of striking a helicopter. Usually in such cases, the militants immediately upload the video if they struck. Indirectly, this may confirm statements about the blow inflicted by the Turks.

Some time ago, the Chinese portal Sohu wrote that the Turkish Air Force F-16 tried to cross the Syrian border, but they were “driven away” by the Russian Su-35S.

Comments

[NEXUS]

Now the Syrians need to be taught how to shoot down Turkish F-16s, and it is desirable to recall Sushka ...

[stepka_razin]

Now the Syrians need to be taught how to shoot down Turkish F-16s, and it is desirable to recall Sushka ...

At the same time and leave the s-400, after they knock down ...

[Ros 56]

Mind is not enough and opportunities.

[kventinasd]

Quote: stepka_razin

At the same time and leave the s-400, after they knock down ..

Trotsky S400 - useless scrap metal against the Russian VKS. There everything is programmed in software.
So don’t rejoice at the little puppies.

[Voyager]

Why do you think so? How do you think the S-400 will determine who to shoot and who not to shoot against the commands of the operators?

[boss]

in much the same way as the American air defense systems refused to take, even in manual mode, the Turkish aviation of the rebels against Erdogan.
and you did not know why Sultan Ed, immediately after the coup attempt, attended to buying from 400 and scored on any US sanctions?
that's why.

[Spambox]

Turkish air defenses did not take Turkish planes due to the presence of the defendant, the system defined the target as friendly.

[EvilLion]

And what, in the real world, the need to destroy at least captured or stolen machines with working defendants is impossible? In the USSR, for example, the so-called. "Belenkovskaya" button that removes the restriction on opening fire.

[Spambox]

Yes, I’m faithful that all this is there too, and it’s difficult to say why they didn’t shoot down. In an environment where it is not clear where the plane of the conspirators is where it is, it was difficult to make a decision to destroy, I think so

[Ethereal]

Both Soviet and Russian air defense systems, supplied and supplied for export, as a rule, are not equipped with requestors of the state identification system. And without this, it is IMPOSSIBLE to define your own or someone else's plane. Yes, even if there is a Russian interrogator in the air defense system, it is necessary that he request the plane with the codes set at a given time. And these codes are the most secret. what is in the modern system of state recognition. This so-called "key information" has the highest secrecy and is sent in paper form to military units from the General Staff. And it is unlikely that the Russian General Staff will send this top secret key information to Turkey. And if it does, then why would the Turks get it into the interrogator, if they just need to hit Russian planes?

[Karaul73]

Why are you comrade minus?
Yes, to suffer for the truth and fight.

[Spare]

Quote: NEXUS

Now the Syrians need to be taught how to shoot down Turkish F-16s, and it is desirable to recall Sushka ...

This is a dangerous business, but Erdogan will continue to become impudent if the answer is not given, naturally with the support of the unofficial Russian air forces.

[open]

No need to learn, it still will not work, IL-20 is an example of this.

[NEXUS]

Quote: abror

No need to learn, it still will not work, IL-20 is an example of this.

Russian officers are now mandatory in Syrian crews ... so the IL-20 will not happen, but the F-16 can very well.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: abror

No need to learn, it still will not work, IL-20 is an example of this.

Russian officers are now mandatory in Syrian crews ... so the IL-20 will not happen, but the F-16 can very well.

The answer for the helicopter was not long in coming. I spoke in vain, they treated the helicopter like that.

According to local sources, for the first time after a long silence (on the basis of an agreement with Turkey on not striking at Idlib), the Russian Air Forces worked out massively in the center of Idlib. Su-34 bombers left for combat from the Khmeimim airfield after confirming information about the destruction of the Syrian Mi-8 by calculating MANPADS of terrorists supported by Turkey.

The blows were inflicted on places of concentration of illegal armed groups and the headquarters of Khayyat Tahrir al-Sham.

http://in24.org/world/38551

[NEXUS]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The answer for the helicopter was not long in coming. I spoke in vain, they treated the helicopter like that.

A pair of F-16 should be stuck in the ground in order to discourage the desire to fly into these lands altogether.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The answer for the helicopter was not long in coming. I spoke in vain, they treated the helicopter like that.

A pair of F-16 should be stuck in the ground in order to discourage the desire to fly into these lands altogether.

Especially it is not necessary to escalate the situation, you see, the Turks are prudent and will not get into an open conflict. Shake rights and calm down on this.
It is better to equip helicopters with air-to-air missiles, so that even if they could not fight the F-16, then at least they could fight off the AIM-120C-7, just as the Indian MiG-21 fought off Pakistani AMRAAMs in Kashmir, but this is so ,for the future.

Powerful R-74M ammunition will be installed on board the rotorcraft to destroy air targets. They are able to bring down even fifth-generation aircraft. At the same time, the helicopter itself will remain low-impact, operating at low altitude.

As sources in the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia, a fundamental decision was made to equip the Mi-28NM with R-74M air-to-air missiles. They will radically increase the capabilities of the helicopter.

http://in24.org/technology/38527

[V.I.P.]

[

It is better to equip helicopters with air-to-air missiles, so that even if they could not fight the F-16, then at least they could fight off the AIM-120C-7, just as the Indian MiG-21 fought off Pakistani AMRAAMs in Kashmir, but this is so ,for the future.

I don’t understand you .... What kind of missile from the VKS arsenal can shoot down AIM-120C-7 ?? If you do not shoot down the F-16, then you assume that you can shoot down an air battle missile ???? ... ... ...

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: V.I.P.

[

It is better to equip helicopters with air-to-air missiles, so that even if they could not fight the F-16, then at least they could fight off the AIM-120C-7, just as the Indian MiG-21 fought off Pakistani AMRAAMs in Kashmir, but this is so ,for the future.

I don’t understand you .... What kind of missile from the VKS arsenal can shoot down AIM-120C-7 ?? If you do not shoot down the F-16, then you assume that you can shoot down an air battle missile ???? ... ... ...

Yes, the same R-73, not to mention the new R-74M.

Modern missiles can fly in any direction and independently track the target, explained pilot-instructor, major of the Air Force, master of sports in aerobatics on jet aircraft Andrei Krasnopyorov. “That is, the plane launches a rocket just toward the target. If at that moment the target itself shoots an oncoming rocket at it, then your rocket hits the metal object that goes towards it, ”the Air Force major explains.
“Missiles bring down not only planes, but also any target, any metal. By shooting down a rocket, the aircraft naturally provides itself with complete safety, ”concluded Krasnoperov.
As the newspaper VZGLYAD reported, on Wednesday, representatives of the Indian Air Force clarified the circumstances of the recent air battle with the Pakistan Air Force. According to them, one of the Su-30 fighters of the Indian Air Force shot down an Amraam medium-range air-to-air missile launched by Pakistani pilots.

https://m.vz.ru/news/2019/3/6/967342.html

[voyaka uh]

"If at this moment the target itself shoots an oncoming missile at it, then your missile hits the metal object that is going towards" ///
----
This is the major "bent". There are no such missiles yet.
To get there, you need to build an extremely sensitive AFAR and a strong chip into the GOS of the VV rocket. To see the enemy’s rocket and calculate the meeting point.
Such missiles will appear, but not today.

[Rzzz]

R-74m - what kind of rocket is this ???

[ork_333]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Quote: V.I.P.

[

It is better to equip helicopters with air-to-air missiles, so that even if they could not fight the F-16, then at least they could fight off the AIM-120C-7, just as the Indian MiG-21 fought off Pakistani AMRAAMs in Kashmir, but this is so ,for the future.

I don’t understand you .... What kind of missile from the VKS arsenal can shoot down AIM-120C-7 ?? If you do not shoot down the F-16, then you assume that you can shoot down an air battle missile ???? ... ... ...

Yes, the same R-73, not to mention the new R-74M.

Modern missiles can fly in any direction and independently track the target, explained pilot-instructor, major of the Air Force, master of sports in aerobatics on jet aircraft Andrei Krasnopyorov. “That is, the plane launches a rocket just toward the target. If at that moment the target itself shoots an oncoming rocket at it, then your rocket hits the metal object that goes towards it, ”the Air Force major explains.
“Missiles bring down not only planes, but also any target, any metal. By shooting down a rocket, the aircraft naturally provides itself with complete safety, ”concluded Krasnoperov.
As the newspaper VZGLYAD reported, on Wednesday, representatives of the Indian Air Force clarified the circumstances of the recent air battle with the Pakistan Air Force. According to them, one of the Su-30 fighters of the Indian Air Force shot down an Amraam medium-range air-to-air missile launched by Pakistani pilots.

https://m.vz.ru/news/2019/3/6/967342.html

“We all learned a little bit, something and somehow ...” You seem to have learned from newspaper articles. Stop sprinkling with quotes and links if you don't understand the essence of the issue.

[Sky strike fighter]

R-73 are in service with the Indian Air Force.

According to Indian sources, local Su-30s were attacked by American AIM-120-C7 AMRAAM missiles, which are not in service with the FC-1. This means that the "dryers" attacked the F-16. What happened next was not difficult to predict. Back in 2004, during training air battles of American and Indian pilots, it was revealed that the American F-30 interceptor, and even more so the F-15, was not capable of opposing the Su-16 at close range. Hence, the Pakistani tactics could be as follows - from a long distance (80-100) km, using external target designation (from the SAAB 2000 AEW & C) to "ambush" a salvo with AIM-120-С7 AMRAAM missiles and quickly leave the retaliatory strike zone on afterburner.

https://polit.info/445884-boi-v-nebe-kashmira-stavit-krest-na-amerikanskoi-koncepcii-vozdushnoi-voiny

[V.I.P.]

Well, the question is which rocket hit whom. AMRAAM (with a radar seeker) that flew toward SUSHKI, which probably caused interference, or heat was directed at AMRAAM, which flew by inertia with a non-working engine. with the exception of Meteor, her engine runs almost to the point of defeat ..

[Sky strike fighter]

With the help of AMRAAM, Pakistani F-16s were attacked, and Indian Su-30s were forced to fight back with the help of R-73s, which have one of the functions of working on air-to-air missiles.

The missile was adopted by the R-73 by the Decree of the USSR Council of Ministers of June 22, 1984 and by order of the USSR Ministry of Defense No. 00113 (1984). The beginning of mass production (model R-73 RMD-1) - 1987

The R-73RMD-2 missile model has the ability to launch into the rear hemisphere of the carrier and can be used against air-to-air missiles.

https://dfnc.ru/katalog-vooruzhenij/rakety-vozdushnogo-boya/r-73-rvv-md/

[basmach]

Well, a lot has been written on the barn. They studied at the R-73 school (Tambov VVAIU, faculty of AB). But never even one of the teachers even stuttered about such an application. IR GOS is simply not able to track the heating of the case - and the solid propellant rocket motor works for several seconds (for example, on the S-5 it is only 0,7 sec, 73 less than 3). Therefore, a missile can be shot down on a passive site only with the RGSN (active or semi-active) .. In addition, the R-73 was not used on turntables, only the R-60M

[EvilLion]

Now the R-60, apparently, is all, just the shelf life of the latter has ended, all possible carriers have been retrained to the R-73, in particular, the end pylons have been removed from the Su-25. That is, in principle, R-73 should stand on the turntable, another thing is that an air defense helicopter is a crazy idea in itself.

[EvilLion]

What kind of nonsense? IR GOS simply does not see a rocket with a spent engine.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Especially it is not necessary to escalate the situation, you see, the Turks are prudent and will not get into an open conflict.

Is it the Turks that will not get into an open conflict? They have already adjusted the army to rescue their pro-Turkish militants and are attacking the Syrian troops. If even the Syrian helicopter shot down then what can I talk about? Here, only the wedge must be knocked out, the blow must be answered with a blow and huge losses be inflicted on the Turkish Armed Forces both in manpower and in equipment, it’s a pity that the Syrian army has been worn out over the years of war, and our VKS will not dare to attack the Turkish army (although in theory Turkey occupier in Syria and have every right) but Erdogan holds Russia tightly by the pipes and other economic projects.

[alexmach]

You see, the Turks consider themselves and will not get into an open conflict. Shake rights and calm down on it

Well, yes, it is precisely for this reason that new and new troops are being transferred. Not for a counter strike, after all.

[Spambox]

I have not heard much nonsense, although chants like Ura have been skipping recently in VO. Aim 120 at the final stage flies like a kinetic projectile at a speed of about 2M, very miserable, and do you seriously assume that a p73 missile with an IR and an optical homing head can bring it down? 2 How and by what will a helicopter pilot direct this missile? OLS station? Is she on mi 17? Or he will shoot on shoes in the direction of likely finding Aim 120

[Spambox]

I have not heard much nonsense, although chants like Ura have been skipping recently in VO. Aim 120 at the final stage flies like a kinetic projectile at a speed of about 2M, very miserable, and do you seriously assume that a p73 missile with an IR and an optical homing head can bring it down? 2 How and by what will a helicopter pilot direct this missile? OLS station? Is she on mi 17? Or he will shoot at random in the direction of the likely location of Aim 120

[Piramidon]

Quote: NEXUS

A pair of F-16 should be stuck in the ground in order to discourage the desire to fly into these lands altogether.

And what to do with the postulate - "Erdogan is a partner"? What about their "plastic" tomatoes? But what about the Turkish Stream? ....

[NEXUS]

Quote: Piramidon

And what to do with the postulate - "Erdogan is a partner"? What about their "plastic" tomatoes? But what about the Turkish Stream? ....

Erdogash is not worried about this, why should we worry about this? Erdogan thinks that he will be able to blackmail us both with the Turkish Stream and this "partnership", at the same time spoiling us in Syria ... I think he is very mistaken.

[dauria]

I think he is very mistaken.

I also look, here they basically consider the issue from one side. But Erdogan barely saved his skin during the coup. He's not so invulnerable "from the inside". And I don’t think the US likes him very much. Seize the moment. With such a war can and how Mussolini end.

[Grits]

Quote: Piramidon

And what to do with the postulate - "Erdogan is a partner"? What about their "plastic" tomatoes? But what about the Turkish Stream? ....

And also - where to move the Bosporus and Dardanelles?

[Grandfather Crimea]

Further deliveries of modern Russian weapons and the beach)))) sea, everything is paid))))))) ???

[the most important]

Quote: NEXUS

A pair of F-16 should be stuck in the ground in order to discourage the desire to fly into these lands altogether.

To our great regret, they did not pay for the downed bomber ... But they gave the air defense system on credit, they built a gas pipeline, we are building a nuclear power plant at our own expense ... There is no answer to all the nasty tricks! Here, as a preventive measure, you can again close access to all tourists to the beaches under the pretext of caronavirus. And it is not necessary to bomb, one sick "Chinese" can bring down the entire economy of Turkey. The main thing is that he would be there on time.

[NEXUS]

Quote: the most important

And it is not necessary to bomb, one sick "Chinese" can bring down the entire economy of Turkey. The main thing is that he would be there on time.

Go modestly into their parliament and casually cough?

[the most important]

Quote: NEXUS

Go modestly into their parliament and casually cough?

Well, it will be very obvious ... you can come up with more interesting ... For example, find a virus on tomatoes. Let him go for a walk at military bases ... at military garrisons ... Or lose a load of weapons in the zone of deployment of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, which is fighting the Turks. You can do it through the fifth hand.

[yang174]

spit on everyone

[PalBor]

Xi already coughed. Did not help.

[Grandfather Crimea]

Better to fall to the floor and play the "dance of death"))))))))

[Ka-52]

Unfortunately, they still didn’t pay for the downed bomber ... But they gave the air defense system on credit, built a gas pipeline, built a nuclear station at our own expense ....

unfortunately you write nonsense, misleading gullible readers.

They gave air defense on credit

the issuance of loans to pay for the delivery is a common and very advantageous form (for the lender in the first place) of interstate cooperation. The only "but" - the government should carefully assess who and for what the loan is given. Like cans, which, as in an old joke, will force you to show your ass and bring a toilet bowl, but toilet paper is not a fact that they will give you.

gas pipeline built

and in your fantasy world is it possible to transport gas to Europe by SMS? I’ll disappoint you - in the real world, they usually build hydrocarbons from point A to point B Gas pipeline. And Gazprom did not build the gas pipeline to the Turks (!), The gas transportation system itself belongs to him. Gas is destined partly to Turkish consumers, and partly to Europe. Then the Turks were wiser than Nezalezhnians and Bulgarians.

build a nuclear station at our own expense

and what's so bad about whining? Our country is building a power station on the territory of another state to sell electricity to Turkish consumers. It was not built to be handed over to the Turks. The nuclear power plant will belong entirely to the Russian side.

And it is not necessary to bomb, one sick "Chinese" can bring down the entire economy of Turkey. The main thing is that he would be there on time.

China is not far from us, let’s also arrange an epidemic in Turkey. Maybe right away in Russia - what is trifling? For the sake of pseudo-patriotic revenge, we’ll destroy several hundred of our citizens - this is unseen ....

[Spambox]

You have the Nexus of the brain again. How will you bend f16 if it does not enter the airspace of Syria?

[NEXUS]

Quote: Spambox

You have the Nexus of the brain again. How will you bend f16 if it does not enter the airspace of Syria?

We turn on the brain and look at the radius of action of the S-300 and S-400, which is quite realistic to transfer to that area.
But what do you need? Your concern is to fan the fan.

[Romka47]

Yes, the fact of the matter is that they do not fit into the airspace of the SAR, although our Sushka then also did not enter the sky of Turkey.

[PalBor]

Well, Rashidin 4 finally took. No matter how hard the Turks try, victory will be ours.

[maiman61]

Good news!

[Alexey Z]

Russian officers are now mandatory in Syrian crews ... so the IL-20 will not happen, but the F-16 can very well. And why then recently heroically rescued a civilian aircraft from Syrian air defense?

[neri73-r]

Here, in this case, the S-300, apparently, will not be limited, ours, the Turks are not Jews.

[figwam]

If the strike was really delivered from a distance of more than 60 km, then, most likely, the Turkish Air Force did not enter the airspace of the SA

Now you can shoot down the F-16 in their territory.

[maidan.izrailovich]

Now the Syrians need to be taught how to shoot down Turkish F-16s, and it is desirable to recall Sushka ...

And what do our advisers teach them there? Why is this F-16 not shot down now? What, such a situation was not calculated? After all, the Syrians have beeches. Why don't they work in the war zone?

[IvanT]

A downed airplane in Syria or Turkey is two different things. As far as is known, their plane did not invade Syrian airspace.

[kit88]

Quote: IvanT

As far as is known, their plane did not invade Syrian airspace.

Interesting logic.
So F-16 did not invade. You can’t touch it.
And the fact that he flunked his military missile Mi-17 on the territory of a neighboring state with his missile?
Actually, normal states declare war on this.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: kit88

Actually, normal states declare war on this.

So they actually fight

[IvanT]

I do not mean it.
A crashed plane on its territory can be presented as a victim. Patrolled! But in Syrian territory you will not say so)

[alexmach]

And the fact that he flunked his military missile Mi-17 on the territory of a neighboring state with his missile?

Yes, most likely there was no technical opportunity to do anything to him.

[Separ]

Now there is nothing normal, wars will be just that - abnormal ..

[Romka47]

Vyacheslav, forgive me for not having a topic, I saw a commentator with the same avatar on one auto forum today, and I think your name is yours, did you happen to write anything about the gazelle battery polarity? and then suddenly 2 times a day on the World Wide Web met) And on the topic to the point! The norm is left now when everything is going abnormally.

[Separ]

No, it's not me. I have nothing to do with Gazelles. The last car I dealt with was the ZIL-157 "Mormon"

[Romka47]

Then excuse me

[Grits]

Quote: kit88

Actually, normal states declare war on this.

Actually, yes. Only it will look as if I had just declared war on the neighboring police station.

[maiman61]

You're contradicting yourself. With 300, the beeches will also not invade the territory of Turkey. Hit from Syrian territory!

[Lipchanin]

Quote: maidan.izrailovich

Why is this F-16 not shot down now?

If you read off-diagonally, you can see

It is further alleged that the attack was carried out using an air-to-air missile from a distance of more than 60 km.

That is, from the territory of Turkey

After all, the Syrians have beeches. Why don't they work in the war zone?

Because the terrorists do not have aviation and the Buks have nothing to do there

[Grits]

Quote: maidan.izrailovich

Why isn't this F-16 shot down now? What, such a situation was not calculated? After all, the Syrians have beeches. Why don't they work in the war zone?

Because the Turks followed the path of the Jews - to beat and run from behind a hill. Good teachers turned out.

[Thrifty]

The Turks have too many militants in Syria, the opportunity to test their own weapons and ammunition of Turkish manufacture on the Syrian and Russian military equipment has now become quite real. Therefore, revenge for each destroyed unit of military equipment of the Syrian army must be dealt the maximum damage, in the ratio of 7k1, at least. To discourage the Turks and deprive them of the opportunity to fight the Strait of Syria, and crap Russia.

[maidan.izrailovich]

Therefore, revenge for each destroyed unit of military equipment of the Syrian army must be dealt the maximum damage, in the ratio of 7k1, at least.

Absolutely agree with you.
However ,,, 1: 0 is not in our (Syrian) side.
In general, it is not clear who and how commands there. There was a gradual aggravation with the Turks. But it’s clear that this is a NATO country. And they have aviation. Only F-16 more than 200 pieces. After all, it is clear that they will apply. And further more. Where is Syrian air defense? The question, of course, is not for you. Those who know the answer to him are unlikely to show up here.

[Sergei 777]

They know how to shoot, they lack the spirit!

[knn54]

In the Syrian province, there are enough goals without the F-16.

[tlauicol]

Again, do not buy tomatoes?

[Vadim.]

You are not particularly inciting here, people are dying there. What was expected

[Oquzyurd]

Here, many "victims of the 1915 genocide" write under Russian names, although they have nothing to do with Russians, they engage in incitement, since their finest hour has come.

[armenk]

You have the finest hour, Turkish - you again publicly defecated in your post on this forum.

[bayard]

My good acquaintance and friend is the grandson of the surviving girl during that massacre. Her family was saved, and her daughter married a Russian Cossack. During the war, my friend's mother served as a draftsman at the headquarters of one of the armies that stormed Berlin in 1945, and her husband was an intelligence officer ... and my friend was born at the front and became the "son of a regiment" ... or rather, the army headquarters. When they took Berlin, he was about two years old ... he has a photograph - he and his mother in front of the Brandenburg Gate ...
He became an outstanding physician and inventor of the original honey. equipment ... when there was an earthquake in Spitak he took a vacation and went there, and as a surgeon he saved people. When the war began in the Donbass, he also arrived - first in Slavyansk, then in Donetsk, operated on the wounded immediately after the reflection of the assault on Shakhtyorsk with an ukrovermaht ...
He often recalled the stories of his grandmother about that massacre. Cut the Kurds, which the Turks promised all the booty and villages of the Armenians.
I also know the reason for such behavior of the Turks - I studied this topic based on materials collected by one Azerbaijani professor. Judging by the materials, all sides of each other were worth it, and there was also genocide by the Armenians of Azerbaijanis. But the Armenian genocide occurred earlier.

[maidan.izrailovich]

...there all sides of each other were worth , and there was also genocide by the Armenians of Azerbaijanis. But the Armenian genocide occurred earlier ..

Do not cast a shadow over the wattle fence.
The Turks came to these territories as conquerors. And Azerbaijanis are part of the Turkish ethnic group.
When the Nazis occupied part of our country, did the partisans slaughter them? And this is fair.

[bayard]

Do not distort. I’m talking about the events of the beginning of the last century, which I studied, among other things, from the diaries of Russian officers who served in Transcaucasia at the end of the WWII — about the events that followed the February coup, the collapse of the Russian Army, desertion of ordinary personnel, when only officers remained there and the Armenian militia appeared (in Erzurum and Kara regions / provinces). About the events in Karabakh, where the Armenians taking revenge on Azerbaijanis (as related to Turkish Turks) for their genocide, launched genocide against Azerbaijanis (not related to the events in Turkish Turkey), cutting out entire villages and occupying their lands ... being refugees from Turkey themselves from Turkish genocide ... I talked with the descendants of the survivors in that meat grinder, because I served there in 1988-1991. and found all the events of the beginning of the new Armenian-Azerbaijani massacre. Of course, I was interested in the history of this conflict ... whence the knowledge of the subject.
And I know very well that the Turks (Seljuk Turks) came to front Asia from Middle Asia ... Perhaps even very well, like the whole sequence of events. Therefore, I tell you that this blood feud has very deep roots, and when it is beneficial for some puppeteers, they easily rekindle the old conflict, in the latter case (88 - 91 years) to accelerate the collapse of the USSR. Subsequently, in order to not grow together again, broken into smithereens.
Therefore, I say with full knowledge of the subject that the same Armenians in Turkey were victims of genocide, and in Azerbaijan - the source and driving force of genocide against Azerbaijanis. If in eastern Turkey the Armenians are an indigenous people who had their own statehood there in the past, then in Karabakh and Azerbaijan itself they are a newcomer, whom the Russian tsar allowed in there out of mercy and compassion. And I have a completely unbiased look at this whole sad story.
By the way, in Donetsk, Armenians and Azerbaijanis live quite peacefully, without hostility, and among my friends there are one or the other ... and they like to ask me sometimes about the history of this conflict, because they themselves do not really know their history.

[armenk]

studied this topic based on materials compiled by one Azerbaijani professor

Bayard, something you did not study ..

Cut the Kurds, which the Turks promised all the booty and villages of the Armenians.

And it was, but the Turks ruled everything.

and the genocide of the Azerbaijanis was also

where you do not spit solid genocides around. do not share the facts?

and in Azerbaijan - the source and driving force of genocide against Azerbaijanis

Can you show where in 1915 Azerbaijan was in karate? please share information when did the genocide of Azerbaijanis happen, preferably with documents?

If in eastern Turkey the Armenians are an indigenous people who had their own statehood there in the past, then in Karabakh and Azerbaijan proper they are a new people

Thank you for the great knowledge - as I understand this knowledge, all from the same "professor". can you clarify when and where did the Armenians come to Karabakh?

[bayard]

Quote: armenk

Bayard, something you did not study ..

It’s difficult for you to imagine the volume of materials on history (including Transcaucasia) that I studied and that Azerbaijani professor (or academician of the Azerbaijan Academy) is only a small fraction, his book was in my possession at the time of the outbreak of a new conflict in the spring of 1990. But unfortunately I can’t share the Sources - my entire library is on a different front line and it is on classic paper-based media (now I live in Donetsk).

Quote: armenk

Cut the Kurds, which the Turks promised all the booty and villages of the Armenians.

And it was, but the Turks ruled everything.

Of course, the Turks, they simply gave the opportunity to the nomad Kurds to seize the villages, land and all the property of the Armenians, which they gladly did by arranging the very infamous massacre. In the village where my friend’s grandmother came from, Kurds now live. He went there, looked, rented, looked for the house of his ancestors, but he did not advertise it to the locals.

Quote: armenk

and the genocide of the Azerbaijanis was also

where you do not spit solid genocides around. do not share the facts?

You won’t believe it, but where I’ve been living for six years now, he’s the very one - to this day we bury kids, old people, women, men from the prime of life, only this time against the Russians.
People still shudder about the affairs of the Dashnaks in western and south-western Azerbaijan - there, immigrants from Turkey cut out whole villages of people, and in several districts they freed up their place for settlement. And it was exactly after the February and October coups, when the Republic of Ingushetia was crumbling, there was no power, and the Armenians, after the defeat of their militia hordes in Turkey, had weapons in their hands. So they decided to clean up their compatriots in an atmosphere of general chaos and anarchy. Moreover, they had no way back to Turkey, and the Kara and Erzurum regions were later transferred to Turkey altogether.
I served there - in Azerbaijan in 1988-91. I don’t know about the events of the new massacre of sworn neighbors at the RIC (intelligence-information center) of the USSR air defense system, and not from newspapers and books. Our units were all over Azerbaijan, and in Karabakh too, and with local elders, intelligentsia, authorities, and local Armenians, we worked and resolved conflicts. And the evacuation of the Armenian population was organized, they covered in its military units, taken under protection, organized transport and escort. And of course they studied the history of this conflict very well.
Therefore, I will say with full responsibility as a specialist and a witness to the conflict (1988 - 91), AZERBAIJANI ARE THE PARTICIPANT. It suffered exactly the same degree as the Armenians in 1915. Both then - in 1917-22, and in 1990 all the initiative in this swar came from the ARMENIANS. They expelled all ethnic Azerbaijanis from Armenia. In the winter. Through the mountain passes. Only when these refugees arrived in Azerbaijan did Sumgayit events take place. But the press wrote only about them.
And Gorbachev warmed your nationalism, supported in a territorial dispute, incited hostility by injustice for the sake of the collapse of the USSR.
And he achieved this.
It was the Armenian terrorists who blew up a mine in the Moscow metro!
They burned Soviet passports at rallies in Yerevan back in 1985.
They received weapons from their diaspora abroad (including Uzi assault rifles), explosives, equipment and equipment, seized military depots, created Dashnak gangs, attacked a detached air defense unit ... they even tried to take our radar station by night assault. The assault was repulsed - it was good to see well in the snow at night.
He personally took part in the disruption of the terrorist attack to undermine the oil and gas pipeline (from Azerbaijan to Armenia), when the Armenian saboteurs on two Mi-8 helicopters, at extremely low altitude, landed a group of bombers who managed to tie up the pipes with explosives, but did not manage to connect the detonators - it arrived our task force was on two Mi-24s and they had to flee to Stepanokert, where they sat right in the crowd in the central square and scattered ... Our helicopter pilots did not dare to use weapons over the city.
So I know the latest history of this conflict very well both from personal experience and there is no bias in my opinion.

Quote: armenk

Can you show where in 1915 Azerbaijan was in karate?

Armenia, too, was not on the map at that time, and it appeared as the Armenian SSR only by the will of the Soviet Government, and then the Azerbaijan SSR appeared. And before that there were just provinces and provinces.
And there is no need to shake your "ancient statehood", if it once was - in the hoary antiquity, then there were long centuries of timelessness and subordination. Turks, and before that the Byzantine Empire.
And the state of Urartu was not yours, you, as a part of 10 tribes of Israel as migrant slaves, were resettled by the Assyrians on the deserted lands of the previously occupied Urartu state, and its former inhabitants - Lezgins, Asetians, went north and settled along the Caucasus Range.
You are the same aliens on that land, like the Turks (Seljuk Turkmens) and Azerbaijanis (Azeri Turks).
You are the Semites of the Asurov tribe, immigrants from Palestine, and before that, from Egypt, consisting of 12 tribes of Egyptian slaves.
You have a good pedigree, you can be proud of it.
But your homeland is in the south.
And in those places where you live, you are migrants. And to arrange a massacre with the same for big rights to land is stupid. And it's funny.
In the Soviet Union, by the way, there was no enmity. There was internationalism. There were many mixed marriages (Armenian-Azerbaijani) and it was precisely such families that suffered the most in that conflict - these were family tragedies.
For some, cunning and natural cunning prevailed, for others animal instincts, and above all, a puppeteer stood and enjoyed a bloody performance.
There is guilt on every side.
Each of the parties should admit their own guilt to themselves.
And to fix what can be fixed.
And build life from scratch.
Generations have now changed and you both have a chance.
Armenians must return the occupied territories. In addition to Nagorno-Karabakh itself, its fate must be decided by referendum, the exchange of territories (the Nakhchivan issue) and a normal economy and life should be established.
Your (Armenian) lands are in Turkey.
You have a historical right to them.
The same as the Azerbaijanis in their ancestral lands.
Why native?
Because they have already been honored for a thousand years.
A third of the population of Iran is Azerbaijanis.
Turkic / Azerbaijani dynasty in Iran ruled since the 11th century.
The current Ayatola of Iran is an ethnic Azerbaijani.
And the Turks came to Western Asia from Iran and Transcaucasia.
Have come long ago.
In exactly the same way, 10 tribes from the former Kingdom of Israel were transferred to the same highlands some time earlier.
You were oppressed and even genocide - the Turks (and the Kurds who are their helpers). Azerbaijanis did not participate in this.
They are generally quite peaceful people ... This is what your ancestors fleeing from Turkey took advantage of (FOR EVIL use).
This must be realized.
To accept .
Reconcile first with ourselves and with the TRUTH.
And then come to terms with each other.
Russia TIRED you to reconcile.
And if Armenia does not have enough of its land ... fight with Turkey.
In Turkey, the land is really yours. Although they brought you there under the escort of Asuras, YOU GIVED IT TO YOU.

[armenk]

It’s hard for you to imagine the volume of materials

where already to me ..

You will not believe

I won’t believe .. I didn’t hear a single fact and didn’t see a single document .. you carry frank delirium not backed up by anything. in fact, like the Oquzyurd post, it’s just zilch (only longer) ..
I don’t have time to discuss nonsense - you’re collecting documents and facts not from Macademic academics from ANAS, write - we’ll talk.

[bayard]

Quote: armenk

write - talk.

What for ?
If you are an ideological Dashnak, this cannot be cured. It's like the "right sector" in Ukraine, like ISIS (banned in Russia) or Jabhat Al-Nusra.
If it’s just a person who doesn’t know his story and doesn’t want to know ... I am sad ... but also not interested.

[Oquzyurd]

You answered so clearly, (congratulations, not lazy) that Armen only had to pretend that there was no goal scored on the Armenian goal, as in a joke.

[bayard]

It’s easy to tell the truth.
After all, they promised a lot when they provoked a conflict, and now 30 years later they have been beaten, almost isolated ... but with Karabakh. At the same time, half of the Armenians from Armenia fled - from hunger and cold. Personally, I know several of these refugees.
I hope sooner or later this conflict will be resolved and Azerbaijan will return its lands. The main thing is that Aliyev shows wisdom, not ardor. And he chose the right priorities.
I am very surprised by the damaged relations between Azerbaijan and Iran. How did this happen? After all, a third of the population there are like you? Iran is a Shiite country, but Azerbaijan is a secular country, albeit a Muslim one, but, as I remember from previous communications, the Azerbaijanis could not even really answer the question of whether they were Shiites or Sunites (in 1990) ... "We are Muslims." .. And this, I think, is the most correct answer.
Why did I remember Iran?
It seems to me that for a better solution to their problems (not only territorial and political), it would be very useful for Azerbaijan to have Iran as its sympathizer, and not an opponent. Indeed, taking advantage of your conflict with Iran, Armenia has drawn closer ... But is it profitable for you? On the contrary, having Turkey and Iran at the same time + Russia, which gave you statehood (and recognized it) by playing on these balancers, you can achieve much more ... By practically putting Armenia in a state of geographical isolation. Armenia is now drawing closer to Iran ... and Iran, under the conditions of US sanctions, any partners are beneficial ... At the same time, there are few benefits from such a partner. Especially economic.
At the same time, Iran is much more profitable for projects such as the South-North trade route - from India to Russia and Europe, through Iran and Azerbaijan. This is a very profitable project for all participants, and for its success we need good relations of partners. Yes, and mutual trade can also be very profitable and promising ... which can not be said about Armenia ... it has practically nothing - no minerals, no agriculture, no industry. Having improved relations with Russia, Iran and having good relations with Turkey, Azerbaijan would very well be able to use its geographical position as a transit country, as a trading partner (this is the economy), and in solving its territorial issues ... very good prospects would also appear . Moreover, without conflict ... by force of persuasion.
Moreover, having drawn closer to Iran, you will force Armenia to draw closer to the USA more and more ... and this will already provoke a reaction of Russia ... and if things go further, it will even allow you to throw off some obligations to Armenia ... and maybe even drop this ballast .
Do you know what I mean?
This is the way to resolve your conflict.
Your problems.
Almost everyone.
Moreover, the future lies with the Eurasian Economic Union, which, by the way, will be much more comfortable for Turkey than the failed membership in the EU and NATO. And Iran, which no one dares to arrange isolation. And to all Turkic states, for the Eurasian Union is a union of Indo-Aryan peoples. And the Turks, although somewhat diluted their blood, but their roots are Aryan.
The word "Arius" in Sanskrit and Avestan means - Pious. (it is not worth remembering the Third Reich with this word, on their part it was a profanation and an attempt to put on other people's regalia, for they are Goths - outcasts from the Aryan white race). Eurasia is our common home. Therefore, the economic union of the states of Eurasia is natural and natural, it is beneficial to everyone ... but disadvantageous to the overseas and peripheral countries - pirate in nature.
Pirates about such a Union teeth break off.
I am writing this not only for you.
Time to scatter stones ends.
It's time to collect stones and build a large and strong house.
And a strong wall, so that no pirates dare.

[Karen]

Yes, bayard, it's easy to tell a lie, if the "true" from the rebel ... :)
Firstly, when the Assyrians defeated Urartu, there were already Armenian formations on the shores of Lake Van ... Historians refer to this as the Country of Shubria (and although they say Hurrian, they agree that there were a lot of Armenian there) ... So , not the Assyrians moved us ... In our school textbooks, the homeland of the Armenians is designated as the territories around Erznka (today Karin is indicated on maps in Turkey) ... And yes ... In terms of the structure of the skull, we are diametrically different from the Semites / Jews, so fairy tales of the Turks, we easily refuted in due time (this is when I prepared materials for Alfred Rosenberg) ...

Quote: bayard

you? Iran is a Shiite country, but Azerbaijan is a secular country, albeit a Muslim one, but, as I remember from previous communications, the Azerbaijanis could not even really answer the question of whether they were Shiites or Sunites (in 1990) ... "We are Muslims." .. And this, I think, is the most correct answer.

Did the academician tell you that the term "we are Muslims" is not so connected with religion itself? The Turks on the lands of Azerbaijan were mainly of four clans ... and they agreed among themselves to designate their ethnos by the term "Muslims", especially since this did not distort the ears of the Persians ...

As for the fact that the Russians moved the Armenians to the territory of Karabakh, from Persia ... More Nadir Shah allocated the Armenian melikas on the territory of Karabakh to contrast the Turkic component ... Although he himself was a Turk ... But, apparently, the Persian in the Shah’s palace the component was the main ...
And then ... The Armenians of Karabakh, like the Georgians, undertook to put up their own army to meet the soldiers of Peter (this was precisely the demand of the emperor) ... But the Russian troops did not come, leaving us alone against the Persian army (which clearly shows that the French the fake "Testament of Peter" has a basis) ... The Karabakh army was forced to leave for Russia, weakening the position of the Armenians on this territory for a long time ... Well, then there were the Russian-Persian wars, and part of the historical Armenian lands went to the empire ...

As for the voiced opinion that Armenia is ballast for Russia ... To such an opinion to me (censorship) ... Such is your authority’s voice - there are options ...
So, we will study with Lezghins how in history it so happened that they and the Karabakh people have common words of the order of a thousand ...

[bayard]

Quote: Karen

So, we will study with Lezghins how in history it so happened that they and the Karabakh people have common words of the order of a thousand ...

Commonness / similarity of language does not mean common blood. Lezgins are former inhabitants of the state of Urartu, driven out by the Asuras to the north from their lands. And on their (Lezgin and Asetin) lands brought settlers withdrawn from the kingdom of Israel.
As for the shape and size of the skulls, I do not know what Jewish skulls you have measured, but in the classification of Jewish types (skull, skeleton, etc.) there is a clear point - "the so-called Armenian or asurian type", which means the knee Asurovo (by the way, the first of twelve). Your genetics also speaks of a close relationship with: Heres, Greeks, Black Italians and Black Spaniards - classical Semitic clans (Arabs are another branch of the Semites). And there is nothing offensive or unworthy in this. To have Italians and Spaniards ... Greeks ... I see no reason for grief. And kinship with the Jews, who are your closest relatives, is not insulting, not much.
I think many will agree with me.
And for a visual illustration ... "the shape of skulls" and physiognomy in general ... watch the film "Independence Day", pay attention to the father of the protagonist and determine by eye - who he is, an Armenian or a Jew. It is better to watch without sound, so as not to be distracted.
I already wrote above, you have a good pedigree, many are proud of it now, it is considered prestigious.
But you do not belong to the Indo-Aryan ethnic group in any way. Absolutely. And the ruins of the ancient Zoroastrian / Mazdasnian temples in the territory of the former state of Urartu indicate that the Semites did not live there, until their resettlement by the Asyrians (Ases of Iria).
But the aces, who had previously lived in Urartu, moved to the north (the Caucasian ridge and its slopes), they professed Yasna, and therefore they were called ASY / YAS ... that is why the name of the Ossetians came from. And LEZGINS are also immigrants from Urartu.
And common words in the language ... your ancestors ended up on a foreign land, perhaps some of the inhabitants remained on it, plus the neighbors from the north were just them - Lezgins and Asetians.
Georgians, by the way, are also Jews from among those - 10 tribes, if there are any doubts on this, read / re-read the life of the blessed equal to the apostles Nina, the enlightener of Georgia. To whom did she come at the behest of the Virgin Mary? Which people? JEWISH people, from among the 10 tribes, who lived in the modern. Georgia and then called ... Uzhiki. These were Jews, the Pharisees wrote to them about the birth of the baby Jesus, they came at the call of the Pharisees with an armed detachment, took part in the execution of Jesus Christ, shared his things, and ... one of them brought his "uncut tunic" as a trophy and presented it to his mother. .. well, then you should know. Reread who was then the people whose descendants call themselves Georgians. And also your relationship with them is emphasized by the fact that the family of their kings / princes Bagrationi descended from the Armenians.
Be proud of your relatives, your Simit roots, this truly is nothing shameful or offensive, it is your blood, your ancestors, your culture and mentality. ... And the language changes over time, there are Western Slavs: Bodrich, Lyutich, Polaba, Luzhichans, Porus / Prussians, Venets, Svens ... they have long forgotten their native language, history and sometimes even their roots, but genetics remained.
So it is with you.
You can safely recite:
"I found out that I have
there is a huge family ... ".

[Karen]

You, apparently, are guided by the Israeli version: there they announced a couple of years ago that, as a result of DNA research, it turns out that the closest relatives of the Jews are not Arabs, but Kurds and Armenians :)

I agree, much has been mixed in the languages ​​... Here the word of the Klesovites will be more significant ...

Quote: bayard

. And your relationship with them is emphasized by the fact that the line of their kings / princes Bagrationi, came from the Armenians.

He emphasized more than once: the Bagratids always emphasized their pedigree from David ... And yes ... I have suspicions that the Bagratids that reigned in Armenia divided the country into several kingdoms precisely for this purpose, in order to facilitate the conquest of the Hazaras by other Turks, seljuks ...

[armenk]

for which the cuckoo praises the rooster .. I watch you Turkish, I like to expose myself as idiots .. although you don’t get used to it ..

[Oquzyurd]

"although you are no stranger to .." Yes, of course, it is customary for you to exhibit .. a gift from ancient suffering.

[Romka47]

they have the same relationship with the Russians as with their ancestors, without those and without these, the latter would not have happened, you would have tried. I’m Russian, but there is a forget-me-not flower on the glass. So everything is natural, Caesar Caesarean! They may not be hiding, even if they directly call under their nicknames. Their business.

[tomket]

Quote: NEXUS

Now the Syrians need to be taught how to shoot down Turkish F-16s, and it is desirable to recall Sushka as well.

it would be nice for us to learn and open an account first. And then to teach someone.

[Thrifty]

What are the Turks ub-people-ki! A photo appeared on the Internet where the Turkish military leader of the killed helicopter pilot was tied to a motorcycle, and, according to eyewitnesses, dragged the dead body through several local villages!

[Whalebone]

The Syrians have already been taught many times. Interestingly, there is somewhere the arithmetic of Soviet spending on Arab "comrades"? How much did the Soviet scammer cost in the Middle East? Not our friends, Arabs and not allies, how many times do we have to run the rake? While there is a freebie, they smile and make friends, if you remember about money, they will run to partners. Okay, now the Russian Federation has a military training ground there, although there is real benefit for the Armed Forces, but there is a complete void with political goals. The fascists were defeated in 3 years 10 months. We have been fighting in Syria for five years. Whom do we defeat and why?

[Adimius38]

everything was much simpler with the Nazis — there was a specific enemy and countries supporting the fascists, they beat everyone, so that they squealed like pigs before slaughter, and here a bunch of countries with their own interests and the Russian elite are tied economically with a number of these countries, we didn’t deliver Hitler The S-400s did not build a nuclear power plant, but then the Turks beat our allies, in response we build a nuclear power station for them, we laid a gas pipe to collect margins for transit. Here the tangle is worse than it was during the years of the great Patriotic war.

[smart ass]

Poor Syrian people, everyone wants to snatch a piece from the Syrians

[bayard]

[quote = NEXUS] Now the Syrians need to be taught how to shoot down Turkish F-16s and it is desirable to recall Sushka ...
The Syrians have four S-300 divisions, I think now you can relocate a couple of such divisions closer to the Idlib zone and cover the advancing troops. The fact that the Turks bring down Syrian planes and helicopters from Turkish territory gives the Syrians the right to do so - the debt is paid in red.
And the Russian VKS has a chance to get even for Peshkov. And the Turks themselves showed and gave an example - how.
And to continue the offensive, not sharing among the goals of the terrorists and the Turkish occupiers - they are now also among the international terrorists. And the Syrian army in its own right in its territory.
And it would be worthwhile to deliver an additional batch of Tochka-U missiles to Syria, there are now a lot of them in warehouses and they must be disposed of profitably.

[Trevis]

You have to give a good zvezdulin to the Turks.

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Trevis

You have to give a good zvezdulin to the Turks.

Does anyone realize how the "war" against Turkey will end with the forces of a limited contingent in a remote theater of the DB, without the possibility of normal supply? I hope that the helicopter pilots, at least not Russian military personnel, were. However, God forbid, if there was an opportunity to survive and the Syrians, if they are Syrians.
I can’t understand one thing. Why do so many want so much that the Russian military would face Turkey in such obviously losing conditions. Or someone hopes that if the Russian military, then the enemies in one fell swoop ten battles? People, fellow citizens, think well. I have already said this (I’m not alone, of course) and I will say it again - participation in the Syrian civil war is a strategic miscalculation of the Kremlin. We are more and more immersed in this conflict. Now the question of confrontation with Turkey is already raised. Assad certainly well done, man, does not give up. But why should our military perish for his interests? And I especially do not understand my fellow citizens who, in all seriousness, want a clash with Turkey. Do you regret our military, their families?
At the beginning of the Syrian campaign, I wrote that this is a trap for our military. And in the event of a serious "batch", we will have to destroy the equipment, and evacuate the personnel, and this is still a good option. Because in case of bad, I do not feel any desire to observe the heroism, in which I have no doubt, our soldiers in such an unfavorable situation. This is not a computer game, understand at last! Who will give

good zvezdulinu Turks.

? If Assad is fighting with the hands of the Iranian proxies and our VKS + special forces. Syria is bloodless as a result of the civil war, Assad DOES NOT have a national combat army, all the more capable of confronting Turkey. Are you sure you want to see how the attempt to "punish Turkey" will turn out if she takes it seriously and gets involved in Idlib in full? Who is ready to go to the military registration and enlistment office or send their son, brother to Idlib? And die a hero to participate in the Syrian civil war? Or do you propose to declare war on Turkey and start everything seriously, as an adult?

PS I understand the indignation of many over the actions of Turkey. But in politics, in the world, the law of the strong decides, not morality. And I am frankly afraid of the mood of many who want to punish Turkey, at the cost of the lives of our military. Many of them are heroic guys, but unfortunately, they are not immortal. Remember this when you talk about the punishment of Turkey. It was already in history, when at first there were arguments that one could take one city in two hours with the help of one paratrooper regiment and how it all ended in reality. May be enough? Let's look at events realistically and seriously.

[no better place for]

Bravo. At least one sane person among a bunch of urapatriots ready to send their children to death so that the Asad rules in the idlib. Recently, there was close cooperation, which everyone was glad that NATO was cracking, and now, for the sake of some kind of Syrian province, tens of thousands of people are ready to lay it down. The earth is full of idiots.

[ugol2]

Katz offers to surrender.
Run home leaving everything.
And why should the Russian Federation itself be afraid of Turkey, and not vice versa?
Do you think Russia is weak? As it reminds liberal 90s. To retreat, surrender, then maybe we will not be touched and left alone.
They will not leave.
Do you prokukat all your authority in the eyes of the East, so hard won?
It was you in the 80s who proposed to flee from Afgan, you also spoke about coffins and useless sacrifices. Withdrawn troops .... "Afghan" himself came to us in the USSR.
No, dear democrats. Your number will not work.

Of course, it’s not worth fighting directly with the Turks, but the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Defense do not get their salaries in vain. Let them think - how to beat everyone.

[www3]

and where did you get the idea that there is authority?
there the authority only while the military stand and distribute humanitarian aid, and as soon as they leave there the authority will end.

[Romka47]

Well, as I understand idiots, you called us all those who disagree here, and the truth of the war is one so that Assad in the idlib rules, everything in idlib and Assad is all over .... Top of thought and reason

[Trevis]

Yes, I did not say that Russia should do this. It would not be desirable.

Quote: Leshy1975

Assad DOES NOT have a national combat army, all the more capable of confronting Turkey.

I know that.

Quote: Leshy1975

Are you sure you want to see how the attempt to "punish Turkey" will turn out if she takes it seriously and gets involved in Idlib in full?

What will happen next, we will see. You have to pay for everything.

[kventinasd]

Quote: Leshy1975

Are you sure you want to see how the attempt to "punish Turkey" will turn out if she takes it seriously and gets involved in Idlib in full? Who is ready to go to the military registration and enlistment office or send their son, brother to Idlib? And die a hero to participate in the Syrian civil war? Or do you propose to declare war on Turkey and start everything seriously, as an adult?

It may be enough to hysteria already, as God ask.
No one is going to fight the Turks, but they will be replaced if necessary without your relatives ..

[Leshy1975]

Quote: kventinasd

Quote: Leshy1975

Are you sure you want to see how the attempt to "punish Turkey" will turn out if she takes it seriously and gets involved in Idlib in full? Who is ready to go to the military registration and enlistment office or send their son, brother to Idlib? And die a hero to participate in the Syrian civil war? Or do you propose to declare war on Turkey and start everything seriously, as an adult?

It may be enough to hysteria already, as God ask.
No one is going to fight the Turks, but they will be replaced if necessary without your relatives ..

Of course. On you personally, only all hope. I think so personally and lead the attack. I’ve already reached Idlib, or will you be heading from the site? Or why not put it if it’s not there.

[pipetro]

And why are you trying to breed a panic? Just write typical messages when they try to introduce confusion and reeling into people's minds. Do you really think that nobody notices this?

[Leshy1975]

Quote: pipetro

And why are you trying to breed a panic? Just write typical messages when they try to introduce confusion and reeling into people's minds. Do you really think that nobody notices this?

Panic? What a panic. I'm just trying to reach my common sense.

make confusion and vacillation in people's minds.

Well, well, it’s necessary. Just ask the question, in whose interests are those who urge not to laugh and be united in this, justifying any failures and anti-people’s actions of the authorities.
And in whose interests do I act, when I sow doubts in the minds of compatriots and urge me to think critically, and sometimes directly indicate that we (citizens of the Russian Federation) are simply being deceived.

PS Do you think I only have to sing in unison, with the guards, laudatory odes to the authorities? I disagree. And my predictions are often later confirmed by time. And time, as you know, is the best judge who is right and who is not.

[pipetro]

Yes, that's understandable, a predictable answer. Only it is not clear why you declared yourself "the emperor of common sense". The crown is not tight?

[Leshy1975]

Quote: pipetro

Yes, that's understandable, a predictable answer. Only it is not clear why you declared yourself "the emperor of common sense". The crown is not tight?

I did not declare myself to anyone and the crown was unnecessary to me. Time, here is the only objective evaluator who was right and who will still be right.
In the case of the results of Gazprom’s activities, I’m already right when I argued with people like you, proving that I expect a complete failure.
This is not the first year I have been writing that the country is going to turmoil. Supporters of the authorities also disagree. Meanwhile, we have already come to an unconstitutional coup. This is me about the State Council and the procedure for adopting amendments to the constitution.
And the landings for revolutionary activities are already beginning in the country. This is me about the "Network" case, if you suddenly do not know. We have a similar situation with the late USSR and pre-revolutionary RI. But you will not agree with this either. Until a certain time.
And in the case of Syria. I can logically (but it will be a long debate) prove to you that there is no victory, and the situation is getting worse. But why, if time will tell in this case too, you or I are right. You just need to wait, I’ve been on the site for a long time and I’m not going to go anywhere. I’m wrong, remind me, and I will publicly apologize to you.
There is one pattern. As a rule, supporters of the authorities categorically do not want to think critically. Well, this is what the federal media say, a priori true, and everything else is a lie.
And I would be very happy if the majority began to think critically. And what a crown, if for defending one’s opinion. I often get minuses and insults as counterarguments, for which no one has ever apologized, even when over time it becomes clear that I was still right.

PS I have a clear (on my own initiative) goal in VO; this is propaganda and propaganda. And for this I need to push people to critical thinking. Let them draw conclusions, conclusions themselves. After that, I will no longer need to agitate anyone. Like this.

[businessv]

Quote: Leshy1975

In the case of the results of Gazprom’s activities, I’m already right when I argued with people like you, proving that I expect a complete failure.

If you are talking about Nord Stream, then the failure is not entirely complete, why is that so? They gave the minke whales another year to steer a little in old Europe, supplying those who wish their expensive gas. I think that due to the violation of the contract, "a little" funds will be compensated by the dumped Allseas team of stackers. Gazprom management, the salaries of their bureaucrats, their priorities and work in the domestic market are a completely different issue that needs to be addressed immediately and radically, but without changing the priorities of our country, today this is impossible. In Syria, the situation is far from being as clear as you wrote, and I am sure that you are aware of what our guys are actually there for. In all other respects I agree, I enjoy reading your posts!

[Leshy1975]

Quote: businessv

Quote: Leshy1975

In the case of the results of Gazprom’s activities, I’m already right when I argued with people like you, proving that I expect a complete failure.

If you are talking about Nord Stream, then the failure is not entirely complete, why is that so? They gave the minke whales another year to steer a little in old Europe, supplying those who wish their expensive gas. I think that due to the violation of the contract, "a little" funds will be compensated by the dumped Allseas team of stackers. Management of Gazprom, the salaries of their bureaucrats, their priorities and work in the domestic market are a completely different issue that needs to be addressed immediately and radically. In Syria, the situation is far from being as clear as you wrote, and I am sure that you are aware of what our guys are actually there for. In all other respects I agree, I enjoy reading your posts!

Thanks. The fact that they don’t agree on everything is really wonderful. So, think and analyze on your own. This is critical thinking.
Our thoughts should not coincide completely. On the contrary, only a difference of opinion can give a less objective picture. Indeed, it is precisely in discussions that the weaknesses of argumentation are revealed.

[Romka47]

I did not declare myself to anyone and the crown was unnecessary to me. Time, here is the only objective evaluator who was right and who will still be right. Yes, that's just it is always perceived a little on a larger scale than human life, Peter 1 contemporaries even more than now hated Putin (I am not on his side, although not an opponent, just an example)
In general, I believe that an ordinary citizen a priori cannot have the information that will allow him to analyze the situation in a given period of time. Take on any organization with a staff of 10 people +, it seems that everyone inside knows everything, it seems that everyone understands everything, but what our boss actually agreed with the counterparty, and what kind of agreement they pulled, what kind of decision will we find out only when it happens. the chief is not reporting to us, but will there be power?

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Romka47

I did not declare myself to anyone and the crown was unnecessary to me. Time, here is the only objective evaluator who was right and who will still be right. Yes, that's just it is always perceived a little on a larger scale than human life, Peter 1 contemporaries even more than now hated Putin (I am not on his side, although not an opponent, just an example)
In general, I believe that an ordinary citizen a priori cannot have the information that will allow him to analyze the situation in a given period of time. Take on any organization with a staff of 10 people +, it seems that everyone inside knows everything, it seems that everyone understands everything, but what our boss actually agreed with the counterparty, and what kind of agreement they pulled, what kind of decision will we find out only when it happens. the chief is not reporting to us, but will there be power?

I agree with you. Of course, that any judgment has an imprint of subjectivity.

[boss]

it’s not that you, common sense, in your opinion, is the whole world in ruins, but the Turks will be straight tomorrow!
fit for the poor Syrians, once the Turks crush them.
but at the expense of the Russians, I don’t agree ...
Syria is not the Russian Federation, they have their own graters for centuries, the Turkomans are the same Turks, I believe the GDP, who report to the Americans and argued that it is better not to meddle in the Middle East, not to slaughter it, etc.
therefore, it is not known, the imperial crown, if not for your size, or fit, most importantly, Schaub brain did not transmit.

[alexmach]

And why are you trying to breed a panic? Just write typical messages

The situation there is actually very difficult for Russia, both politically and militarily. Here, along the way, few people understand.

[Iwan_de]

A strategic exit to the Mediterranean. Base. Few?
For hundreds of years, Russia has been considered the enemy. And these hundreds of years surround.

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Iwan_de

A strategic exit to the Mediterranean. Base. Few?
For hundreds of years, Russia has been considered the enemy. And these hundreds of years surround.

For me, the base in the country where the civil war is taking place is already a dubious undertaking. And even more so, when at the same time, you have to participate in this civil war for one of the parties. And if the result of all this venture is a military clash with a regional leading power, then even more so, the negative consequences will outweigh the profitability of any base. Moreover, in this case, the least that Turkey can do is block the Bosphorus for us. So it will be, all the way out to the Mediterranean Sea, from the Black Sea so precisely.

PS That they would understand me correctly. I believe that, of course, Russia should defend its interests, including if so, then by military means. But it is found where the chances of success are much higher than losing. This situation was in the case of the war 08.08.08., In the Crimea. And, unfortunately, they did not take advantage of such a situation in the Donbass. And with Syria, just the opposite. Neither organize supplies, nor provide operational assistance. The hope of the cut off contingent is only on itself. But if against Turkey, this is already too much. So I ask myself a question, having familiarized myself with the mood of many site participants, and who will punish Turkey? Do not rely on Iran either. He and without Turkey, problems above the roof. But Assad, unfortunately, doesn’t have an elementary combat-ready army, is bleeding as a result of a long civil war.

[protoss]

Yes, everyone understands everything, they do not want to recognize. Syrian adventure was initially a losing one. To begin with, Syria, even in its best years, was one of the poorest Arab countries. to take such a bail is to prepare for expenses. the very structure of power in Syria with a bias towards one strange sect of uninhabited pagan Aramaeans who pretended to be Muslim Arabs is extremely shaky. this schmuck in its entire history did not pretend to anything, and suddenly, thanks to the ridiculous French mandate, it came to power. and we, having in our country about 15 percent of the Muslim population, enter the war against their co-religionists. frankly, this is not a plus for our intra-Russian interfaith relations, but also for relations with the Muslim predominantly Sunni world.
Logistic problems outlined by you above.
shorter miscalculation on miscalculation. this is due to the lack of professionalism of our Foreign Ministry, which for decades has been regarded as a noble thieves sinecure.
we simply do not have specialists in the region, hence these ridiculous campaigns.

[alexmach]

Yes, everyone understands everything, they do not want to recognize. Syrian adventure was initially a losing one.

I do not agree, but she was really risky.
Syria had exactly what to reconcile. Maybe it's still possible.

this is due to the lack of professionalism of our Foreign Ministry, which for decades has been regarded as a noble thieves sinecure.
we just don’t have specialists in the region, hence these ridiculous campaigns

But this is not at all true as far as I know.

[protoss]

the forge of mid-lane personnel - MGIMO - long ago became "major", hence the quality of the material coming out of there (they have no motivation).
There are no specialists in BV. even on TV do we see as experts only representatives of 2 interesting nationalities, centuries-old Middle Eastern losers who have been sprinkled and riled there for the past 2 millennia, what can these poor fellows advise the leadership?
The gdp was surprised to learn about the Turkoman only when the Turks landed the dryer. what kind of analysis can one talk about under such conditions.
how can one compete with Erdogan, which has been boiled in this soup from birth, for which all the nuances of tariffs are clear, etc. etc.

[Skubudu]

Erdogan threw the king, spat in his face.
C400 in exchange for tomatoes, a power plant, Turkish Stream.
Our leadership themselves gave Erdogan leverage,
In fact, Turkey received the C400 for free and the pipe of which it decides at its discretion.
C400 safely studied by American experts now ...
A person does not want to learn from history ...
Well, the Russian fighter or the air defense system cannot bring down the F16, they have never done this ....
Everything works only on paper and on exercises.
It will be a disaster if they fire but do not bring down.

[Nastia makarova]

don't write bullshit

[Seminole]

And you didn’t ask yourself the question: why is Erdogan ready to shed the blood of Turkish soldiers for someone else’s land, for Idlib, for Syria or, say, for Libya? He, too, apparently in your opinion?

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Seminol

And you didn’t ask yourself the question: why is Erdogan ready to shed the blood of Turkish soldiers for someone else’s land, for Idlib, for Syria or, say, for Libya? He, too, apparently in your opinion?

For Erdogan, interests in Syria are more important than for the Russian Federation. Here the situation is approximately similar to the situation with the Donbass. Syria is part of the former Ottoman Empire (Libya, by the way, too). And just as in the Donbass of the Russian Federation, Turkey has in the zone of residence of Turkoman, taking into account the land border, much more opportunities, including the military.
Libya, this is a slightly different story. There are the chances of the Russian Federation, whether there is such a desire militarily, much more, for a favorable outcome for us. But you need to understand that this will immediately affect our position in Syria. Moreover, in Syria there is a confrontation of several large (by political weight) countries at once: Iran, the USA, Israel, Turkey, KSA. Syria itself, at this stage, unfortunately is not a subject of politics, but an object. The contradictions and interests of these countries in the Syrian direction are understandable. With the exception of the Russian Federation. Hence the vulnerability of our situation. We, in fact, are also allies of Iran, but at the same time in good relations with its enemies: Israel and the KSA. We developed and the leadership of the Russian Federation further tried to develop good relations with Turkey. With the USA, everything is more complicated there, but this is enough. It is enough to understand the ambiguous position of the Russian Federation in Syria. Therefore, Erdogan’s position is clear, he is ready to shed the blood of Turkish soldiers and he will not back down.
And what about the Russian Federation? The bulk of the citizens cannot even remember the original goals of our participation in the conflict. And how unattainable they are for today. The situation, according to these goals, has only worsened. But the leadership of the Russian Federation did not formulate new goals. I think that the Kremlin itself does not understand what real goals can now be achieved in Syria. I see the goal - I go to it. And what decisiveness can there be if all old goals and no new ones?

PS Russian authorities pursue in Syria sole purpose - ensure the territorial integrity and sovereignty of this country. This was stated to reporters by the press secretary of President Vladimir Putin Dmitry Peskov (source RBC)

PPS I hope my answer suits you.

[Seminole]

Thanks for the answer, but no! he did not suit me. If I understand you correctly, your opinion is based on the fact that since Syria is a former part of the Ottoman Empire, since Turkey has more opportunities to supply military operations along the entire border with Syria, it has more significant reasons for conducting military operations ... I’m right ? You know, we always respectfully remember the USSR. Know why? Because the USSR has always had the courage and determination to establish a military base under the nose of America, say in Cuba, to supply it with nuclear missiles and not to give up its interests to the United States and the rest of the world, even with the obvious threat of a global nuclear war. The Caribbean crisis in 1962 is an example. You can continue to list: the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Arab-Israeli wars, and so on. You must always remember that they respect to a greater extent not the strong, namely those strong who have the determination to use this force if necessary.
Now, in essence. Russia has spent a lot of resources to keep Assad and Syria to maintain the integrity of Syria. Are you suggesting that we throw it all in the trash? Or do you think that Assad's defeat or concessions to Turkey in all its regional whims in Syria will increase Russia's authority and influence? Have you ever thought about the fact that Syria is the only reference point for Russia in the Mediterranean and the Middle East? what if we close our eyes to what the enemies of Syria and Russia want to do with Syria, then in the end Russia will lose all prospects of influence on the Middle East and on all significant processes and changes that will take place there? (economic, political projects, etc.). You did not think what it would be like if the former rulers of Russia, starting with Ivan the Terrible, thought the same way as you do. Tell you? I'm sure that now Russia would probably be no more than Belarus, if it were at all. You are drawing parallels between Donbass and Idlip. Donbass builds its own destiny through the development of state institutions, society, legislation, like all normal states. What do they do in Idlib? who lives and rules there? A bunch of Islamists, yesterday's ISIS and Al-Qaidites who are ready with "pride" to drag the burnt body of a helicopter pilot shot down yesterday ... a bunch of hyenas, otherwise you hang. Self-respecting fighters would never have done that. Turkey feeds on tearing off pieces of Syria for itself, so that later, in the worst cases, build new Northern Cyprus out of them for itself, and at best, simply to join them. It's as clear as God's day. So everything is very clear here ... and the rest of the thought is left to you.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Leshy1975

And in the event of a serious "batch", we will have to destroy the equipment, and evacuate the personnel, and this is still a good option.

Do not have to. What do Iskander’s calculations do in Syria? Even Erdogan will not trample on our limited contingent, as he will immediately receive a slap in the face in the form of Iskander and Caliber rockets from the sea. And since Iskande-M and Iskander-K do not walk alone, then the radius of one of the Iskander-K missiles is 2500 km. Look at the map and circle the circle. Erdogasha will not have time to give the order to take off.
Mattresses will not fit in with the Turks, which means Turkey will be left alone in this conflict with us. And no one is going to fight wall to wall ... or do you not believe that there are calibers with special warheads?
And now with regards to-look really at the events. Putin is serving his term and he does not need a new war. That is why he did not punish either the Turks or the Jews for the downed planes. As for the single interception of Turkish fighters, Erdogan will not and will not start a war with us.

[Vadim.]

I can’t understand where such hostility comes from, what we will achieve from the war with Turkey. What ... ours should perish in a narrow land and against whom? It is believed that many trolls are here under Russian names. Go see for yourself with the Turks if you have enough darling, then you have no place to troll. Moreover, I am sure that ours were not related to the death of Turkish soldiers, it was not in our interests. Negotiations were ongoing in Turkey, it was a setup specifically to quarrel us with the Turks, this is twice two, is it really not clear. And rather, the hand of Iran is visible. And do not now be surprised at how the Turks respond to this. And what would we do in their place?

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

It is likely that this could be so.

[Shahno]

Something negotiations did not work out between the Turkish and Russian structures ... It looks as if they had not agreed on anything.

[K-612-O]

[/ quote] SANA reports that the Rashidin district 4, in the suburbs of Aleppo, is completely cleared of militants [quote]

Judging by this, the Sadiks do not stop the offensive. So they didn’t agree.
And the barmaley in the area where the helicopter was shot down got:

Nairab withstood the attack. From the scene, it was reported that the SAA during the fighting destroyed about 40 fighters.

[Siberian 66]

Sometimes you don’t have to negotiate. You just need to take revenge so that it is not disgraceful. Ghouls understand only power. Calls for negotiations are mistaken for weakness and even more impudent. Turks turned into ordinary occupiers in a sovereign country.

[boss]

and GDP wasn’t taught in the east by Goryachitsa, noting that Turkey in Syria also has interests to be reckoned with! (I heard a couple of years ago)
and why I believe him more and more ...
invaders, sovereign country?
mozhe on zashtatnikami we shall bang?
then for the Jews?
there are half the contingents keep.
or first in the Turks ???
you read their agreements, then the points of the army tour, then the de-escalation zone, then 5 km inside Syria, the Turks can, and then the aggressors ...
yes there the devil himself will break both.
the population of this idlib is finally turkoman, count the Turks.
You can not pardon execution.
But where to put the comma, huh?
and why the Russians should do this with their blood, I don’t understand.

[gurzuf]

In such cases, I think the Turks again the resort-summer season may not work out.

[Skubudu]

Quote: gurzuf

In such cases, I think the Turks again the resort-summer season may not work out.

Tariffs for pumping gas will be raised, immediately the holiday season will turn out ... whole ministries will go ... and they will buy up all the tomatoes ...

[gurzuf]

Are you serious? Turks have a head, unlike you. To go or not to go is not a matter of state bodies, but of people. And as our people have shown, if they consider it necessary, they will not go.

[figwam]

Quote: Shahno

Something went wrong negotiations

It turns out negotiations are going on and the war is on.

[Graz]

Russia must close the airspace for all foreign military aircraft, shoot down without warning

[Calm]

You need to shoot down one f-16, at the same time it can conduct clinical trials of a promising new missile ... for Sushka, for Il-20, for our guys for everyone, they have a coalition no matter whose Israeli f-16, amers, Turks, just slap once and show that ours can also

[borberd]

In which clinic are you going to conduct "clinical" tests of the rocket? By your logic, when the Turks will shoot down Assad’s planes, will you take revenge on the Americans, Israelis, British ..? Seriously ???

[Alex Nevs]

And you could shoot at the penguins in Antarctica, but the rocket changed its course ....

[Calm]

If you do not understand the point, do not comment

[borberd]

I do not quite understand your Russian language. If you write something, then write at least a little more literate. Read books or something. You are welcome .

[Calm]

You don’t understand life along the way, all the best that you probably had glass of muddy droplets. And with your toothless jokes., Take your brothers in your mind ... in the porch with beer .. and train your sense of humor, which seems to be In its infancy, I didn’t force you to be rude. And check the spelling of children with yours, if there is, of course.

[Calm]

And be so kind as not to answer, but just think about the above. If I hurt your feelings, do not stink, please, just dry in the sun

[Calm]

In the same one in which they are now testing, the alliance is burning our planes and equipment too !!!! I do not propose to do this openly, but probably, as the GDP said, we will respond in a mirror and if the fight is inevitable, we must beat first. So seriously, but you can send such humor and emoticons to your teachers in life

[Demagogue]

By the way, shooting down a helicopter did not help the Turks. Counterattack Syrians repulsed. But there will be more.

[Romario_Argo]

all those who are off-screen screaming about Allah, very soon, just die

[Romario_Argo]

for 1 downed helicopter only 23 air raids took place today
at least 4 FAB-500 / ODAB-500 = 92 bombs x 5 = minus 460 fighters
killed 150, 300 wounded, and how many more are those who don’t want anything (?)

[Antidote]

Write more, what their busurman regret. (C)

[tomket]

Quote: Romario_Argo

at least 4 FAB-500 / ODAB-500 = 92 bombs x 5 = minus 460 fighters
150, 300 wounded were killed, and how many more are those who don’t want anything (?)

why not 1,5k barmaley?

[Shahno]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The answer for the helicopter was not long in coming. I spoke in vain, they treated the helicopter like that.

A pair of F-16 should be stuck in the ground in order to discourage the desire to fly into these lands altogether.

But what about military and economic relations. Just started to establish.
PS. It has long been left an opinion. Erdogan is not a politician with whom you can negotiate and get bonuses with impunity .. Well, he is not capable. Another mentality or something.

[borberd]

Erdogan wanted to participate in the construction of a gas pipeline from Israeli Leviathan to Europe through Turkish territory, to which the Israelis said that Erdogan was an unreliable partner. At that very time, Putin fed the Turk ice cream and smiled sweetly. He did not yet know that Erdogan was an unreliable partner.

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Shahno

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The answer for the helicopter was not long in coming. I spoke in vain, they treated the helicopter like that.

A pair of F-16 should be stuck in the ground in order to discourage the desire to fly into these lands altogether.

But what about military and economic relations. Just started to establish.
PS. It has long been left an opinion. Erdogan is not a politician with whom you can negotiate and get bonuses with impunity .. Well, he is not capable. Another mentality or something.

Exactly. Why, here, at VO, many were as happy as children that we were supplying S-400 to Turkey. Say, we are destroying NATO and it is time to "kiss passionately" with Erdogan. And what a great strategist V.V. Putin, Erdogan is now ours and Trump, of course also ours, in general, all around are our own. And now you see how it comes out, it's good if they don't start shooting at the Syrians from the S-400, or at us. And I'm not very interested in whether the Turks have such a technical capability to rewrite the C400. For me, such an undertaking was dubious from the very beginning. The interests of the Russian Federation and Turkey were opposite at the very beginning of the Syrian conflict.
This is the ability of the current authorities to analyze and predict. They cannot distinguish geopolitical enemies from friends. And why? And because they cannot formulate the interests of the Russian Federation itself, they are all confused with personal interests. Hence this result.

[Titus]

And it can be assumed that what our Turks see on the C400 is what our specialists also see.

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Titus

And it can be assumed that what our Turks see on the C400 is what our specialists also see.

Yes, of course it can be assumed. But on this subject, let the experts better think what can be seen there and what the Turks can reflash. I am not special in this area.

[pipetro]

Not tired of writing about "agreements"? Or do you think that ours just started all this? Maybe the Turks deceived us several times (and continue to do so), so ours decided to teach the Turks to be honest ..

[Spambox]

I already wrote here and I repeat: We will receive ears from a dead donkey, and not an agreement with the Turks. And once again I was right. I completely agree with you, it's like bargaining in the Turkish market, like you hit the price but leaving you feel that you have been beaten, and the seller escorts you with a sly smile

[ultra]

The best "otvetka" is to iron the barmaley with aviation, and throughout the depth of the territory of Idlib.

[alex aircraft]

How can one agree with a respected partner and dear friend Erdoganchik. VVP knows what to do. Sand to help him!

[Sky strike fighter]

We are not quarreling. We are still joking.

[Lamata]

And what difference came into space or not, if the helicopter was shot down over Syria, it does not matter, the act of aggression is evident.

[Zaurbek]

And if it were Mi 8 VKS? How would F16 distinguish him?

[Lamata]

but not at all. again, there would be flakes, tomatoes at dumping prices. and they themselves are to blame.

[Shahno]

Quote: Siberian 66

Sometimes you don’t have to negotiate. You just need to take revenge so that it is not disgraceful. Ghouls understand only power. Calls for negotiations are mistaken for weakness and even more impudent. Turks turned into ordinary occupiers in a sovereign country.

And you guys have been hinting to you for a long time, here they only understand the power. How much of this d..chelie are we. Though.

[Xenofont]

But smart people warned not to get involved in close economic cooperation with the Erdogan snake. Now how to get out without shame for the authority of the country and the extra victims of our and allies? Gazprom and atomists tied hand and foot.

[Runoway]

In Sohu: Su-35 Russian Air Force blocked the entry of Turkish Air Force F-16 into Syrian airspace
February 9 2020

Oh sorry today apparently day off

[Sky strike fighter]

Or just shot down with MANPADS.

[thinker]

Sohu is written in Sohu

On February 11, Sham Liberation Front fighters shot down a Syrian Mi-8 helicopter with anti-aircraft missile mounted on the shoulder, and two pilots on board were killed.

http://www.sohu.com/a/372304279_100030585?spm=smpc.mil-home.fspic.2.1581447842946hSgrjbb

[babylon]

As expected from the very beginning, that the Turks are not allies and they have never been
And the performance with the coup d'etat and from the purchase of s-400 is planned to rub into the credibility of Moscow

It's time to return Constantinople

[Deniska999]

So he was not Russian, Constantinople.

[Lamata]

And where Oleg shield nailed !!!! It is on Constantinople.

[huntsman650]

Probably, analysts and politicians are racking their brains on how to solve the conflict, a bad world is better than a war with the Turks.

[ximkim]

Quote: huntsman650

Probably, analysts and politicians are racking their brains on how to solve the conflict, a bad world is better than a war with the Turks.

There is no peace foreseen here, only victory or defeat. The campaigns, analysts and politicians from the Russian Federation are not far-sighted. Yes, Erdogan is not right at all, he sent troops to someone else’s territory /. Now these negotiations and meetings will not work. Now it’s up to the military. they won’t stop, because more than one column of military equipment has crossed the territory of Syria. In Syria there are complexes that will allow these columns to slow down after moving the first km through the territory of Syria, but they are not used.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: huntsman650

a bad world is better than a war with the Turks.

it is the Turks who must think that a bad world is better than a war with Russia !!!

[Zeev Zeev]

It is possible that the Turks shot down. Judging by the video, such a hit was not weak, after which the helicopter simply began to crumble in the air.

[Lord of the Sith]

Nothing is clear yet, so it’s best to wait for an official statement from all parties to the conflict before making false conclusions and waving a saber.

[K-50]

If the strike was really delivered from a distance of more than 60 km, then, most likely, the Turkish air force did not enter the airspace of the ATS.

Have the Jews adopted the tactics?
I would not be surprised at the "Tochki" strikes against the Turkomans and the Turks themselves in this case.

[Rusticolus]

Then we also need to adopt the tactics of the Jews. Start ironing everything around the rocket / drones launch site towards our base. And if the Turks find themselves there, it is their problem, they themselves are to blame. And we have nothing to do with it, we are destroying terrorists.

[Lesorub]

Turkey is openly fighting in Syria, hiding behind ridiculous excuses - but the most interesting thing is that the Kremlin will again respond to this event - an expression of concern.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: stepka_razin

Now the Syrians need to be taught how to shoot down Turkish F-16s, and it is desirable to recall Sushka ...

At the same time and leave the s-400, after they knock down ...

Q. Do you ever dry out? You mutter like in a sobering-up room.

[Old Horseradish]

Who would have doubted. With such "partners" and enemies are not necessary. This is just the beginning. Soon, the whole back will be stuck with knives.

[Jack O'Neill]

If Syria answers, it will only be in the hands of Turkey and the United States, there will be an extra reason. And then, Turkey is not anyway who, but still a member of NATO.
On the other hand, what will our politicians do? We will not shoot down the Turks, of course, therefore it is interesting what kind of sticks we will put in the wheels.
But still there is one "but"! As they shot down our Su-24, the Turks immediately said that they shot it down, although ours were trying to get out of the situation, that they had to figure it out, a mistake is likely, etc. But the Turks bent their line - we shot it down!
Now Syria, and the Turks roll crumple. What for? If they did not hesitate to behave openly with us, then why are they still silent with Syria? Strange ...
Of course, it is likely that the Turkish Falcon shot down a Syrian helicopter, but rather, it was the pro-Turkish barmalei who simply brought MANPADS.
Yes, there is no vidos, but usually barmalei immediately lay out such vidos. But it is entirely possible that the camera simply or did not exist at that moment, or it was broken, or something else ...
We must wait for the confirmation of the Turks, because lying to them in such a situation would be strange. Yes, if Erdogan again explicitly says that it was the Turks who shot them down, then he will receive several points for his reputation.
We are waiting, in short ...

[Voltsky]

as I like; first one on zomboyaschike -> comments, in style we kiss the Turks on the gums; then another -> cover the Turks with hats, and wet them in the toilet :) And this is from the same, and the Munus car if you don't get into the mainstream, damn it feels like the hamsters have learned to type, but evolution did not make it possible to remember what was 2 months ago.

[pipetro]

Look up the word "propaganda" in the dictionary. It can be found in absolutely any country. You should not consider yourself the smartest, propaganda rather helps than hurts the population. One song "Get up, huge country" is only worth it - or do you think that with the help of it they "zombified stupid quilted jackets"?

[Voltsky]

and propaganda on cigarettes, so generally for zozh !!! what is your nonsense ?! I have neither quilted jackets, nor anyone else ... I have people and a number of nations in the dictionary, but your ghoul may have quilted jackets and dill and someone else, but God be your judge.

[Vasily Ponomarev]

Quote: Runoway

In Sohu: Su-35 Russian Air Force blocked the entry of Turkish Air Force F-16 into Syrian airspace
February 9 2020

Oh sorry today apparently day off

at the magazine

[Wolf]

The Turkish Air Force is a hotbed of influence of the Anglo-Saxons. Someone wants Russia to fight Turkey. The Sultan does not seem to have control over the military or the very stupid. In the event of a direct battle in Tursk, the military forces will be DESTROYED within a few days!

[Wolf]

Someone thinks that Russia will stand on ceremony with the enemy ??? You are mistaken "partners" will DESTROY everything in the place!

[kventinasd]

Quote: Wolf

Turkish Air Force hotbed of influence of the Anglo-Saxons. Someone wants to Russia would be at war with Turkey

Nifiga did not understand Translate?

[Not served]

He wrote everything correctly, so the relationship did not deteriorate after the downed Sushka. This pilot, as it turned out later, was part of the conspirators. Our ambassador was also killed; for this, generally usually a war is declared immediately. Turkish flyers on the same base with the Americans are being throttled, so whoever commands the question is correctly posed.

[Pytnik]

Turkoman creatures the pilot’s body was tied to a motorcycle and carried around the villages .... I won’t spread it, who doesn’t believe in tape ..ru is ....

[armenk]

Turk does not change ..

[protoss]

it’s a common practice there, live fun, and dead anyway.

[Professor Preobrazhensky]

A difficult situation when our friends shot down our friends.
And it seems that you can’t keep silent, and in this theater of operations, we
by and large and there is nothing to answer ...

[Alexey from Perm]

the Turks are not friends to us, these are Putin and Erdogan are friends, and Russia and Turkey are not.

[Professor Preobrazhensky]

So our president’s friend shot down a helicopter of friends of the Russian people, did I understand you correctly?

[Alexey from Perm]

Yes, right.

[Professor Preobrazhensky]

By turning on the logic, according to your statement, you can draw the following parallel:
- Putin's friend - Erdogan
- Erdogan is an enemy of the Syrian people
- Syrian people are our friend
- So Putin is our enemy
That's somehow so and not otherwise

[Alexey from Perm]

and what confuses you in your calculation?

[Shahno]

Quote: Alex Z

Russian officers are now mandatory in Syrian crews ... so the IL-20 will not happen, but the F-16 can very well. And why then recently heroically rescued a civilian aircraft from Syrian air defense?

No one saved him. Advocates in advance. The Syrians on the campaign considered that this board would be the target, were safe. Hid in Hmeimim.

[Alexey from Perm]

but this time they didn’t drive them away. The Turks are not our friends or travel companions. It would be nice if the Syrians fill up the Turkish plane.

[Skubudu]

Quote: Zaurbek

And if it were Mi 8 VKS? How would F16 distinguish him?

He wouldn’t have distinguished him. He didn’t have to. He flew to bring down the Russian / Syrian helicopter to the Turks, it doesn’t matter. Their experience has shown that no one will ask for a downed Russian plane.

[Radikal]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Piramidon

And what to do with the postulate - "Erdogan is a partner"? What about their "plastic" tomatoes? But what about the Turkish Stream? ....

Erdogash is not worried about this, why should we worry about this? Erdogan thinks that he will be able to blackmail us both with the Turkish Stream and this "partnership", at the same time spoiling us in Syria ... I think he is very mistaken.

But what, or who can prevent him from doing this?

[opuonmed]

Well, we are waiting for the Kremlin’s response if they don’t do so and the Turks will slaughter the army of Assad

[Alexey from Perm]

will do nothing. They will bend, they shot down ours and could not do anything, but here the Syrians ..

[Separ]

Well, the masks are reset and the cards are all open

[iouris]

Will you go to Turkey in the summer? All inclusive!

[lvov_aleksey]

let them be proud that a helicopter was shot down from an airplane !!!!!!!!!!!!!! They already shot down our plane with a rocket. They need Nakhimov to sink their flotilla !!!

[Chingachguk]

This morning I listened to Bagdasarov on FM news, and was slightly dumbfounded, it turns out that our four servicemen were blown up in the car by a mine, the pro-Turkish formations were taken prisoner, and then shot ... ... And between them they were taken prisoner and then ... ... they probably scoffed ... In connection with the above, the question arises - maybe it's enough with Erdogan and his ilk to "kiss" Putin? Well, in reality, the actions of Turkey and their bandit groups are not getting into any gates! The plane was shot down, the ambassador was shot, our guys are killed, and the Russian Federation threatens not to buy their tomatoes? Well, somehow it's already completely ashamed of us ...

[Vadim.]

Quote: Chingachguk

This morning I listened to Bagdasarov

The whole problem is just because of such storytellers. When the main specialist in the Middle East, especially in Turkey, an Armenian, they found someone to listen to))).

[Chingachguk]

Do you think this cannot be? And what did they do with our guys from the downed helicopter? Or are you really saying that the Turks are "white and fluffy"? According to Turkish antics, the conclusion can be made unambiguous - the majesty of Osmania, today consists exclusively in small, subcutaneous pranks and pranks, no more ... ... Although, all of them there, over the hill, behave like mice today. They shit in quiet and think that no one sees it.

[Mik1701]

- ,, Turkish forces again struck the Syrian army. According to Anadolu's Twitter account, 51 soldiers have been “neutralized”.

In addition, the destruction of an anti-aircraft installation, ammunition depot and the capture of a tank are reported.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said earlier that the Syrian government will pay a "very high price" for actions against Turkish forces. ,, The situation is stalemate. It remains to wait for further events.

[Sarcasm]

I read the comments and think, and if the method of all the "heroes of the couch troops", as according to the script of the famous movie "We are from the future," is to dip, or even dunk where and so that they end up in Syria? ...

Firstly, the Turkish Air Force is more numerous, Khmeimim crush with everything that is there is not difficult, block our planes is not difficult, etc. Secondly, their air forces have long-range cruise missiles allowing them to attack targets deep in Syria without entering its airspace. Thirdly, Turkey is a NATO country, we won’t be able to strike a nuclear strike in the event of a collision, the system will work for amers, British and French, it will fly to us everywhere, and in the war with conventional weapons, albeit indirect, not only do they have a large army , both NATO and their satellites will be on their side, and we are alone.

That is, we are initially weak. All we can IN GENERAL is to barely cover our borders and create a threat of retaliation in the event of a DIRECT attack on us. And so we can barely provide a tiny airbase, the actions of aircraft and weapons located on it, while Khmeimim with all its equipment and weapons is not even an insect, but a speck of dust on a stamen, if we compare it with everything that probable friends have in the region. A couple of "accidental" accidents with the galoshes of the "Syrian express", a few dozen lemons for "benefits for the Syrian refugees" and we will have to burn the planes so that "friends" do not get them.

[kventinasd]

Quote: Sarkazm

Firstly, the Turkish Air Force is more numerous, Khmeimim crush with everything that is there is not difficult, block our planes is not difficult, etc. Secondly, their air forces have long-range cruise missiles allowing them to attack targets deep in Syria without entering its airspace. Thirdly, Turkey is a NATO country, we won’t be able to strike a nuclear strike in the event of a collision, the system will work for amers, British and French, it will fly to us everywhere, and in the war with conventional weapons, albeit indirect, not only do they have a large army , both NATO and their satellites will be on their side, and we are alone.

Crush the base Hmeimim or Tartus - is tantamount to signing a death sentence!
Maybe you heard about tactical nuclear weapons, which Russia has more than all NATO countries combined. or just about intercontinental know? None of the satellite countries of the alliance, in the case of a large schukher, will harness for the Turks., Even if Russia turns this country into a desert.
Erdogan knows this, so he is afraid of opposing something even in his thoughts against the videoconferencing system.
There, some far-range workers will work out and all the Turkish aviation will have only memories.

[Sarcasm]

Well? It is somehow difficult to imagine an "indirect conflict" with Turkey and tactical nuclear weapons. And I certainly haven't heard of PMCs with nuclear weapons.

Many people sometimes do not realize that on the other side, including the country that ALREADY used nuclear weapons, this is about Turkey's "friends" and allies in NATO. In the case of a "limited" use of tactical nuclear weapons against a NATO country, we will create a precedent and give a reason, and 99,9% that the United States will also use it "limited" against us, fulfilling its NATO allied obligations. Only here is one BUT, we will apply it against Turkey and, for example, on its territory, and the United States will use it on OUR territory and put us in a situation when we need to respond with the same ICBMs, or to go and sit on the operative. Because we can restrain the United States only with strategic nuclear forces and the exchange of tactical nuclear weapons by strikes, we, in spite of their number, are disadvantageous in the first place. The reason is again simple - we are weaker than the United States in such a conflict. In the Pentagon, not girls are sitting and their children do not have Russian citizenship and business in Russia, they will not think long there, and a similar scenario has long been considered by "friends".

Let's go further. Many do not realize that the Turks ALREADY went into direct confrontation with us and ALREADY directly shot down our plane, the Turks, and not us, Ferstein? They shot down the Su-24, and we publicly grabbed it and, moreover, put ourselves in this position. Yes, there was a "response", buses with Turkish Air Force officers in the center of the capital were blown up by the Kurds, their helicopters were shot down by the same Kurds who had taken from them Igla MANPADS ... But then our Su-25 was shot down by the Needle ...
There is no need to be naive and believe in blah blah, because someone from the future leaders gave an order to bring down our Su-24 there, attempting a military coup substituting Erdogan with this, he gave the order. Another question, Erdogan really does not want to confront us, he needs us.
And NATO was a fig by the way, all the dissatisfaction with the Turks was only in the quality of performance - our Su-24 was supposed to fall "exemplarily" on Turkish territory, but they failed or the circumstances did not allow them to do it.

And now let me remind you that before shooting down our Su-24 the Turks repeatedly asked us not to bomb the Turkomans and the Turkish "they are not there", we did not listen, remained deaf, the Turks found a reason - their airspace, turned on the fool and started us officially warn about the inadmissibility of violating their airspace and began to reap, the result is known. So now, while in another topic they are discussing why the Turkish patrol did not arrive for joint patrols, I omit one small detail, again we have deafness - and after all, the Turks yesterday warned that due to the shelling and planned retaliatory actions, they do not guarantee safety for our military and ask them to take them away. And where to take them? - Take away the military advisers and all that rabble that is called the SAA will scatter with the exception of the Iranians and Palestinians. This means that our advisors may well die by accident or "accidentally". And again we will find ourselves in a situation where we will have to publicly "grab".

[Dima_Anlim]

I agree completely. And by the way, I noticed one thing on VO - the more competent and adequate the user's comments, the lower the rating. More often he is generally in the red. And the higher the rating, the more "oak" the commentator, all comments of which boil down to one thing - "They forgot to wear mattresses, diapers!", "It's high time to pile on amers!"

[kventinasd]

Quote: Sarkazm

Well? It is somehow difficult to imagine an "indirect conflict" with Turkey and tactical nuclear weapons.

Read your porridge their sawdust did not, enough 2 sentences.
Listen better to what people with brains say with whom you are clearly deficient.

I also recommend listening to Satanovsky.

[Sarcasm]

I sincerely respect the Jewish people, though Soloviev, Satanovsky, Kedmi, are far from my ideals at all, but even commerce needs to be learned from them, the capitalist and some money on all these programs raise a good one. Moreover, they are really not stupid, and if anyone does not have their brains in fact, you can rely on their brains, accept their conclusions, sincere or provocative, or opportunistic as the ultimate truth. But I repeat, they are not my idols at all, but your choice of idols is your right.
If you don’t have your own thoughts and objections, it’s probably the same, but forgive me for not having the time to listen to and watch these people, it’s easier to read the opinion of those present here.

[Dima_Anlim]

You are not 13 years old? I am amazed at your comments .....

[Guru]

Mi-17 is not such an ancient helicopter, and the lack of a security system, such as EW-President-S, leads to certain considerations.

[Dima_Anlim]

Firstly, not all export Mi-17s are fitted with the systems you mentioned - they are very expensive. Secondly, it will not save you from an air-to-air missile (which has a much faster approach to the target than a MANPADS missile). And besides, there is also such a parameter - what version of the guidance and target acquisition system the rocket had.

[Dima_Anlim]

Already tired of laughing at storytellers-journalists ....))) How can you "drive away" other people's fighters, being on foreign territory without entering the war? Purely even physically - well, here's an F-16 flying from Turkey, crossing the border with Syria, and then such Russian Su-35S were drawn and ..... So what? Well, they flew up, but flew nearby. What's next? F-16s fly further to the target. What will the Russian Su-35S do to them there? threaten a finger through the canopy? Or will they turn on the combat system and take it into sight? Or will they be shot down with rockets? Well, they certainly won't be shot down, and even warning shots from the cannons won't give. They won't do anything. And trying to "push back" light fighters with your body in the air is stupid and ineffective. You can crash yourself in a collision or get a rocket from a nervous Turk. So it is not at all clear how, with what and where the Su-35S was "driven away" in Syria. Despite the fact that reports from Syria come about the use of military aircraft by Turkey against the Syrian army already constantly. Another bike from the Russian yellow media for the cheers of the patriots.

[Radikal]

There was a message that the Syrian Air Force Mi-17 was shot down by Turkish F-16C

Judging by the subsequent reaction of our VKS, we can assume that the helicopter was ours, or our military personnel flew there ....

[russia2016]

It is necessary to extinguish these exploding Turkish invaders throughout Syria until they finally unbelted there thinking that everything is allowed to them!

[Sarcasm]

How to extinguish? ... That’s the question, there is nothing to extinguish, those who make up the mentioned SAA will be erased by the Turks for one or two, we don’t have our strength and resources there. Today, the American F-15E bombed a checkpoint in Kamyshly and? How do you command him to drive away, naked booty or blew twist? ...

We, the Russian Federation, are far from the USSR even since its decline, we are not a superpower, it’s time to put up with it and pushing off from it to pragmatically build a superpower, super, that is, powerful first and foremost economically, otherwise we will repeat the fate of the USSR, whose economy was simply overstrained.

[Alex russia]

Yes, you’re right, you have to pull your tail sharply to make legs from Syria

[EvilLion]

With 60 km by helicopter? Nude Nude.

[Super]

You have to pile on these Turks! For the boys!

[Chingachguk]

They say it seems that quietly heaping Russia on the Turks physiognomy, simply does not advertise this .....

[Super]

Yes, one hundred percent tumble, but quietly. It can’t be that Russia does not respond to aggression to aggression. For this, we hold the shoigu.

[Chingachguk]

Wow Caught in a helicopter? Well nifiga yourself the pros of the Turkish ambassador !!!!