Strategic Tu-160 bombers will arm dagger missiles, turning them into hypersonic systems

The country's military-industrial complex reports that the Tu-160 strategic bombers will receive new missile weapons.

According to the TASS information service, citing a source, the Tu-160 is armed with Dagger missiles, making this "bundle" a hypersonic missile system. Recall that at the moment only MiG-31s ​​are equipped with such missiles in the Russian Aerospace Forces, however, earlier plans for arming the Daggers and Tu-160 were mentioned.

While there is no information about whether the Tu-160 planes are going to turn into hypersonic systems, or are we talking about the upgraded Tu-160M. Recall that the Tu-160M ​​will begin to enter the VKS from 2021. At the moment, this strategic missile carrier is testing, having gone through several modernization stages.

At the moment, the Tu-160 "White Swan" is the fastest bomber in service. Equipping it with dagger missiles will significantly increase the aircraft’s potential from the strategic fleet aviation VKS of the Russian Federation.

Recall that at the moment, no country in the world, except Russia, is armed with hypersonic weapons. Russian "Daggers", capable of overcoming speed indicators of 6 M, are already on alert.

Comments

[Same lech]

Good deal .. The TU-160 from a great height can get US AUG daggers without approaching the AUG aviation range.
The number of Dagger carriers has increased ... for the Americans, this is already a big problem.

[Victor_B]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Good deal .. The TU-160 from a great height can get US AUG daggers without approaching the AUG aviation range.

Only one small detail is confusing.
Who will show them which way and when to shoot.
We do not have a satellite constellation that could provide target designation, even with an accuracy of +/- a couple of hours. The task of AUG target designation in real time at the moment in Russia is not solved. (I believe that they are working on a solution)
AUG per day can move to a distance of about 1000 km.
It remains to catch in the narrownesses and on / outside the radius of the AV aviation. Difficult.

[Same lech]

And can over-the-horizon radars be able to fix such a mass of floating iron at large distances?

[Victor_B]

One year in 89, I was at such a question; if you see how far you see, the unit commander said that flights over Okinawa are being tracked. (From under Nakhodka. Kievka). As for surface targets was not interested.
For what I bought ...
As for the interference immunity of ZRLS, my knowledge is zero.
But the meter range is clogged at a time!
Ship speed is low. In TWS mode, they are not visible.

[krot]

Who will show them which way and when to shoot.

Another option: A-50, A-100 .. In my opinion, now there is enough capacity for target designation and no one will disclose in detail the mechanism of this.

[Fan-fan]

I read somewhere that the A-50 sees a large ship in only 400 km. Then the question is, will they let him into the AUG, so that he sees her, since the radius of the F-18 is 800 km.

[ugol2]

Let's look for a needle in a haystack, AUG in the vast expanses of the oceans, satellites weighed the entire ball, ZGRLS put. And the adversary also doesn’t bast - He will build the Anti-ZGRLS ...
No, that is how it should be - progress in military affairs is necessary.
And if you need to win here and now?
Yamamoto how did? AUG looking for? He has nothing more to do.
Where is their "decision-making center"?
So let progress be progress, and "Dagger" if it doesn't look for AUG in the Pacific Ocean, but will fly straight to Okinawa, Hawaii and wherever they have something else ...

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: ugol2

and it will fly directly to Okinawa, Hawaii and where else they have what they have.

Plus you, of course, but why are you giving out military secrets to the local "aristocrats", let them torture themselves.

[hydrox]

Explain, please, from what distance and WHAT are you going to "hammer" the receivers of the ZG radar located in the middle of the European part of Russia?

[Victor_B]

Quote: hydrox

Explain, please, from what distance and WHAT you are going to "hammer" the receivers of the ZG radar

But I don’t know!
I only know what one person did, he can always break another.
Well, he studied the P-12 and P-15 on the military commissar, and at the same time the course of radar.
Since then I have been VERY critical of any "radio portraits" of aircraft.
Recognition "in years" of the aircraft model (aha! From the pilot's name), ultra-precise distance and elevation.
In the MV and UHF ranges, the radiation pattern looks like this:
Place your palm upright;
Imagine that your fingers are well ... 180 km long;
So between the fingers there will be a failure where the goal is lost.

[hydrox]

Thank you, you give exhaustive information - how famously you adversaries with your palm!
Kaneshno, they are tapericha and not a sunflower!

[Aqr009]

But the meter range is clogged at a time!

... from what distance and WHAT are you going to "hammer" the receivers of the ZG radar located in the middle of the European part of Russia?

But I don’t know!

[Victor_B]

But I saw what IKO looks like with active interference.
From the simulator.
It can be seen there is a yellow solid circle for the entire indicator.
That's it!
But they write a lot about our electronic warfare systems, they say wonderful to lawlessness.
Maybe ours can score a ZG radar?
Why do not you admit that they also have?

[Aqr009]

Why do not you admit that they also have?

If you allow, then in the composition of each AUG should be something similar to this

so that the radius of the "umbrella" just reached the ZG of the radar.

[Victor_B]

I do not agree!
Do you think the "spot" of the irradiated OGRLS knows about this?
Where is the irradiated (elevation angle) known from?
What prevents to fix the interference?
You can radiate at least Gigawatts in a pulse, but microvolts are reflected!

[Aqr009]

What prevents to fix the interference?

Earth curvature, apparently.

[Victor_B]

Quote: Aqr009

Earth curvature, apparently.

Nah!
Imagine you are under water and a MIRROR surface sways above you, exactly the same ZRLS works.
It shines in the sky. At an angle small on the IONOSPHERE mirror (such as water). And the reflected signal goes back there too.
The angle of incidence is ...
There, in the sky, and the interference must be sent. More powerful than the reflected signal.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

And can over-the-horizon radars be able to fix such a mass of floating iron at large distances?

Yes, and they shine like a Christmas tree

[Piramidon]

Quote: The same Lech

And can over-the-horizon radars be able to fix such a mass of floating iron at large distances?

According to information in open sources, ZRLS are intended for detection and tracking of AIR purposes.

... the "Container" type station is capable of tracking the movement of air targets at a distance of over two thousand kilometers from the state border of Russia.
The station will be able to detect the mass take-off of aviation and cruise missiles, determine the trajectories of individual targets, including tactical and strategic aviation aircraft, as well as hypersonic aircraft.
It should be noted that aircraft made using the stealth technology (reduces radar signature) are not invisible for the Container.

https://ria.ru/20191201/1561793465.html

[bayard]

Quote: Piramidon

According to information in open sources, ZRLS are intended for detection and tracking of AIR purposes.

And surface too. Even the "Sunflower" is capable of this, and it is even easier for the "Container" - he looks at them from above - by a ray reflected from the ionosphere. Another thing is that it most likely works in the SDC mode (Doppler effect) and there is a cutoff in speed. If the ship drifts ... will hardly see. Well, the value of such a cutoff also matters - if the speed is low, it will also produce cars on the highways. And trains ... But there are no cars or trains on the sea, so ... but there may be a bunch of commercial and other ships.

[bayard]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

And can over-the-horizon radars be able to fix such a mass of floating iron at large distances?

If you are asking about the "Container", then this one - it sees both airborne and surface ones. Far away and stable enough.
At a range of up to 3000 km. distinguishes cruise missile or drones, any lightweight. This is at the first jump (it is two-jump).
At the second jump - from 3000 to 6000 km. distinguishes only large planes / group targets, as well as the launch of ballistic missiles along the plasma trail (it does not matter from land launch or submarine).
So this station is very well suited for AUG detection (after all, it essentially looks at the target from above - with a beam reflected from the ionosphere), and at a distance of 2000 - 2200 km. from our shores - with detailing, with the autopsy and control over the activity of not only the order ships, but the entire air group. What is certainly a disguising factor AUG (activity of the air group).
But since the ZGRLS "Container" is a decameter station (the wavelength is tens of meters), you should not expect a high resolution from it - this is a station for detecting threats and monitoring the general air and surface situation. It is unlikely to be able to give target designation to missiles, but it can detect and escort AUG, KUG or even a separate ship, and then additional reconnaissance will be required (satellite, aviation, UAV), and when the coordinates are specified, target designation will be issued. However, it all depends on the capabilities of the GOS anti-ship missile system and its combat algorithms for searching and detecting a target, maybe for some of them - with a high-altitude flight profile, the target designation of the "Container" will be enough. In the Eastern (Far Eastern) direction, the deployment of the ZGRLS "Container" is now in its final stage, but how long it will take to put it into working / standby mode is not yet known.
It was tested on DV and ZGRLS "Sunflower", but there is a completely different principle - it seems that the effect of superrefraction was used. But her work was unstable, tk. strongly depends on many factors - temperature, humidity, tropospheric state, solar activity, etc., but nevertheless, several such stations were deployed and at least one was delivered abroad (to Iran) ... and one more seems to have been deployed in Egypt - Suez region. But already such deliveries indicate that with the "childhood diseases" "Sunflower" seems to be sorted out. And this is encouraging.

[KCA]

The news is with VO, though she is a little over 3 years old, probably a lot has changed:

For the first time, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu publicly announced the development of a highly secret new-generation Liana space reconnaissance system. Work on the project has been going on since the 1990s. In 2013, the trial testing of the system was completed, and the debugging of its components began. Currently, she is working in pilot-duty mode, supplying the command post with data for subsequent processing. Separate segments of the system, according to information available to some sources, were used during the Syrian campaign in the exploration of targets and their destruction by cruise missiles.

https://topwar.ru/107061-sistema-kosmicheskoy-razvedki-liana-rabotaet-v-opytno-dezhurnom-rezhime.html

[Victor_B]

In fact, these satellites are low-orbit. It seems not to be in polar orbits.
24 satellites in polar orbits will make it possible to track the point of minutes for 20 with a period of more than an hour.
Yes and no we have 24 "Lian"
Actually windows, the absence of such satellites can be measured for hours.
At hour AUG will run away for fifty kilometers.

[KCA]

I gave the link, there is at least a little, but something

[hydrox]

You are right :: A-100 will not have time to keep up with the AUG!

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Victor_B

We do not have a satellite constellation that could give target designation, even with an accuracy of +/- a couple of hours.

Well, if it has a nuclear warhead, then special accuracy there is not needed.
And where do reconnaissance planes fly. All the same, AUG for any need to approach our shores at a relatively close distance

[Fan-fan]

Already written about this, it is enough for the AUG to approach our shores for 2000 km so that their aviation launches the Kyrgyz Republic deep into our territory.

[Lipchanin]

And this AUG really falls under the "Caliber"

[Alex777]

Only one small detail is confusing.

The article is too optimistic.
In total, they gathered until the end of 2020 to study the issue of accommodation.
So the news about the placement of at least another year to wait.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/7721975

[figwam]

Quote: Victor_B

Who will show them which way and when to shoot.

Everything is in the complex space, surface and submarine fleet, there are not many places for the possible use of carrier-based aviation against us.

[Winnie76]

Quote: Victor_B

Only one small detail is confusing.
Who will show them which way and when to shoot.

If an aircraft carrier actively raises and lands planes, the radar is supposed to work. Radio intelligence. Satellites. UAVs flying and underwater. The same Mig-31 as a scout. A-50/100. A bunch of options

[Andrey.AN]

Any AUG itself gives its location by radiation of defensive systems, it can certainly swim in stealth mode, only reconnaissance aids are not limited to radio direction finding, or satellites, by the way, the Russian Federation launched a lot of all kinds of satellites, American ones too, you are sure that our reconnaissance aids are not worth it (you could After all, and put, everyone likes discounts)?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

... for the Americans this is already a big problem

Yes, they wanted to be "smarter" than everyone else, but they forgot that for every cunning dupa there is always a vegetable with a screw

[Alex_Rarog]

A strategist with a hypersonic missile is terrifying as intriguing ....

[Piramidon]

Quote: Alex_Rarog

A strategist with a hypersonic missile is terrifying as intriguing ....

It seems that they were going to use the Tu-22M3 for this purpose, and so far, silence in this regard. And to turn strategists, of whom we do not have many, into anti-ship means, in my opinion, is irrational.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Piramidon

And to turn strategists, of whom we do not have many, into anti-ship means, in my opinion, is irrational.

Yes, most likely all will not be.
After all, not all MiG - 31 were imprisoned for "Daggers"

[Piramidon]

Quote: Lipchanin

After all, not all MiG - 31 were imprisoned for "Daggers"

How much is the MiG-31 in service and how much is the Tu-60? You can count on the fingers.

[svp67]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Good deal .. The TU-160 from a great height can get US AUG daggers without approaching the AUG aviation range.

Okay, but how many of them do we have, these "Swans"? It's time to attend to:
a) An increase in carrier aircraft due to the modernization of the fleet of Tu-22M3 and Su-34
b) To begin work on the creation of a new, more adapted for air-based missile, the Iskander, nevertheless, was originally created completely for such metamorphoses

[bayard]

Quote: svp67

b) To begin work on the creation of a new, more adapted for air-based missile, the Iskander, nevertheless, was originally created completely for such metamorphoses

When Zircon is finished, then they will. Zircon was originally planned for an air launch, and the first tests / practical launch was carried out in 2012 from the Tu-22M3. Successfully.
The Zircon's dimensions are more acceptable, both the flight profile and the engine operating mode are completely different. And the modernization of the Tu-22M3M is being prepared specifically for them - the Dagger and Zircon.

[iouris]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

not approaching the radius of the AUG aviation

This is possible only if you put down your alertness and strike first. In all other cases, the planes will not even take off.

[bayard]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Good deal

Yes, there is nothing to do there.
This is a journalist's fantasy, nowhere has this intention been officially announced - "Dagger" on the Tu-160. Where will he hang them?
Pylons for the Tu-160 are not provided and would look like a complete blasphemy on it. And from the internal armament compartment he will be able to fire them only at subsonic speed ... then the characteristics of the "Dagger" are lost ... Do you need it?
Where to drag the "Dagger" on the strategist? How far? Yes, with such perversions.
Apart from the MiG-31, the carrier of the "Dagger" will be the Tu-22M3M - it will be modernized as a carrier of the "Dagger" and "Zircon" (give it the Akhura-Mazda as soon as possible into service). He then (Tu-22M3M) is just capable of launching from an external suspension at supersonic speed. And high altitude. And the first practical launch of the Zircon was also carried out from the Tu-22M3.
And the range is enough for him to keep the enemy AUG at a distance of 3000 - 3500 km from their native coast. And you need to hit a more distant target, there is a refueling in the air - kerosene drank and fly on. He (Tu-22M3M) also has a place in the bomb bay, there just extra. you can place a fuel tank of 8 \ 10 \ 12 tons - the weapons are still on the external sling, but the load margin remains.
Tu-22M3M will be able to take 2 \ 3 \ 4 missiles for suspension. A non-modernized Tu-22M3 will take the X-32 (2 pcs.).

And do not fantasize about the Tu-160. This is a strategist, the carrier of X-101 \ 102.
They are few !
What they will build ... someday ... sometime ...
All the same, they will be few.
Therefore, they will not be used for stupidity.
This (Tu-160) is an integral part of the strategic nuclear forces triad.

[bessmertniy]

Tu-160 with "Dagger" - it will be impressive.

[rocket757]

Strategic Tu-160 bombers will arm dagger missiles, turning them into hypersonic systems

Everything is clear, but what range?
Such a large object does not come close to the enemy’s air defense control zone!

[Same lech]

From a height of at least 10 km, a range of 2000 km I think will be quite ... safe enough for the TU-160.

[rocket757]

Quote: The same Lech

From a height of at least 10 km, a range of 2000 km I think will be quite ... safe enough for the TU-160.

Means of destruction are being modernized, they will be ON, ABOVE, FASTER, SMARTER ... and all that jazz.

[bayard]

At 2000 km. SAM will never shoot. The question is, at what speed will the launch be carried out and from what position / suspension - external or internal. The Tu-160 does not have and will not have pylons - there is no need, but from the internal one ... it's only subsonic speed, otherwise the flaps will not open. And if a subsonic launch, then the range of the "Dagger" will not be 2000 km. , or 1500, or even less. Do you need it?
Tu-160 will NEVER carry the "Dagger"!
Its carriers will be the MiG-31 and Tu-22M3M.
And Tu-160 - carriers of the Kyrgyz Republic X-101 \ 102. There are few such carriers. Even if a few more will be built (pieces 10 \ 15 \ 20), all the same, THEY WILL BE LITTLE.
And they will be ONLY for the main tasks.
And for the "Dagger" several dozen (there are already 30 pieces) MiG-31 and 30 pieces. Tu-22M3M will be COMPLETELY enough.

[Blanket]

To strike at the objects of the first frontier of air defense completely.

[Victor_B]

Quote: rocket757

Such a large object does not come close to the enemy’s air defense control zone!

"Soviet money" AUG was exchanged for a regiment of naval missile carriers. (Tu-16 / 22M3).
For the regiment, it was, in general, a one-way ticket. And this is with a nuclear strike on AB!

[rocket757]

In the USSR, of course, there was always a calculation for perseverance, skill and HEROISM of pilots, justified by the way! But just like that, send without return, why did you decide so ??? There was no such thing! Everything possible was done to save the crews, if that!

[Victor_B]

Quote: rocket757

But just like that, send without return, why did you decide so ??? There was no such thing! Everything possible was done to save the crews, if that!

The Soviet Union never counted on "suicide bombers", but AUG is a very well-protected and mobile target and the very logic of the fight against AUG is a very difficult task.
Therefore, up to 2 regiments of naval missile aircraft were allocated for search and destruction.
Crucial for designation. But in real time, there was no opportunity to track the possibility.
By air, the fighters of AB Tu-shki could not conduct an air battle by definition.
Therefore, losses were inevitable. How much? No one knows that. How the chip will fall.

[rocket757]

Quote: Victor_B

Crucial for designation. But in real time, there was no opportunity to track the possibility.

The technique does not stand still. I always point out that such a component as Strategic and other types of reconnaissance and control is one of the main elements of the country's defense capability.

[Magog]

By air, the fighters of AB Tu-shki could not conduct an air battle by definition. I am confused by the lack of an arrow in the tail of the Tu-160. Initially, they were there with twin air guns. I can understand that the on-board electronic warfare systems do not allow the enemy to use missiles (accordingly, air combat was reduced to drawing closer to a visual cannon shot), but the absence of an arrow in the tail is something out of the ordinary!

[Piramidon]

Quote: Magog

I am confused by the lack of an arrow in the tail of the Tu-160. They were originally there

The Tu-160 has never had a stern gunner.

[Victor_B]

Quote: Piramidon

The Tu-160 has never had a stern gunner.

He mixed up with the Tu-22M3. Probably.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Victor_B

Quote: Piramidon

The Tu-160 has never had a stern gunner.

He mixed up with the Tu-22M3. Probably.

The Tu-22M3 has a remotely controlled stern cannon mount. There is no such crewman as the stern shooter. Of the current combat aircraft, he remained only on the Tu-95 and Tu-142

[Magog]

As for the Tu-160, a discovery for me. Until now, I considered the presence of guns in the stern of a strategist - by itself ... The question remains: and how to defend against annoying fighters? I believe that the Tu-160 is simply not included in the zone of responsibility of air defense aircraft - in extreme cases, it simply quickly leaves the pursuit.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: rocket757

But just like that, send without return,

It was so. No return aircraft. Our first carriers of nuclear bombs could reach America, but there was no way back.
And therefore, the option of submarine crew evacuation was considered.

Everything possible was done to save the crews, if that!

That yes

[Piramidon]

Quote: Victor_B

"Soviet money" AUG was exchanged for a regiment of naval missile carriers.

Means of destruction are being improved. Then the flight range of anti-ship missiles was measured by a couple of hundred kilometers. And the aircraft - their carrier had to enter the AUG air defense coverage area.

[Fedorov]

Really - nothing. Well, if in a complex with escort to certain distances. And it is not at all necessary to beat Los Angeles with New York, for example, there are enough goals and much closer. .

[Lipchanin]

Quote: rocket757

and what range?

Yes, ktozh will tell you
They won’t enter the air defense zone

[Fan-fan]

If the "Dagger" is an analogue of Iskander, and there it was 500 km, then the Dagger has 700, from the force of 800 km range. And to take into account the lack of clarity with target designation and how slowly everything is done with us and the number of these Tu-160s, then in vain we shout, while the Americans have nothing to worry about.

[KCA]

"Iskander" fell under the INF Treaty, so the range did not exceed 500 km, there were no restrictions on air-launched missiles, but now there are no restrictions at all

[rocket757]

Quote: Fan-Fan

while the Americans have nothing to worry about.

So this is not to "bother", it’s like a warning “don’t poke your nose where you weren’t invited,” that’s all.
By the way, who can argue that we have intelligence means, i.e. find and indicate, is \ will not type-top? This is precisely the reason for the "concern".

[Fan-fan]

In my opinion, on the contrary, the United States had more "anxiety" when it felt that we could reach any target deep in its territory, the Daggers would not be able to do that.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Fan-Fan

And to take into account ambiguities with target designation and how slowly everything is being done with us

Even in the glorious Soviet times, our Tu-95RTs were found by the Yankees AUGs even at the transition from the USA to Europe and issued target designations for them by submarines.

[Fan-fan]

In peacetime, yes, they did, but in wartime our Tu-95s will not be allowed to approach the detection distance, they will be knocked down.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Fan-Fan

In peacetime, yes, they did, but in wartime our Tu-95s will not be allowed to approach the detection distance, they will be knocked down.

But after all, the ACG will also need to approach our shores for the range of action of their carrier-based aircraft. And our coastal radars and the same A-50/100 will be able to give target designation, acting under the cover of our air defense

[Fan-fan]

Here, I specifically looked at Wikipedia about the A-50 radar, here:
"Range of detection of ground targets:
single target type of launcher of operational-tactical missiles: up to 300 km
group goals such as "column of tanks": up to 250 km
Detection range of sea targets (with RCS 250 mXNUMX): up to the radio horizon "

Further, he determined the radio horizon by calculator from the Internet, taking the ship’s height to 25 meters, which is a lot with a margin, and the radar height to 10 km, received a radio horizon of 412 km. Now answer who will let our A-50 go to such a distance to the AUG in wartime?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Fan-Fan

Now answer who will let our A-50 go to such a distance to the AUG in wartime?

And at what distance should the AUG approach our coast in order to use its carrier-based aircraft? What does not have to do with beaches, but some distance from the coast inland. At the same time, the A-50 does not have to circle over their masts. 200-300 kilometers from the coast + range of its radar under the guise of fighters and air defense systems

[Sema0]

Quote: Fan-Fan

Further, he determined the radio horizon by calculator from the Internet, taking the ship’s height to 25 meters, which is a lot with a margin, and the radar height to 10 km, received a radio horizon of 412 km.

Fan-fan! Do not confuse radiogоradio visibility, these are two big differences!

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Piramidon

Even in the glorious Soviet times, our Tu-95RC was found by the Yankees AUGs even at the transition from the USA to Europe

in a combat situation the crews of the Tu-95RC - suicide bombers

[Piramidon]

Quote: Gregory_45

in a combat situation the crews of the Tu-95RC - suicide bombers

Now there are none. The latter were cut in 1993. Well, actually, yes. It was believed that if a regiment could issue a command and control unit as a result of which an aircraft carrier would be destroyed, then even in the event of the death of the entire regiment, the task would be considered completed.

[rocket757]

Quote: Lipchanin

Yes, ktozh will tell you
They won’t enter the air defense zone

The question was rhetorical;

[Lipchanin]

Quote: rocket757

The question was rhetorical;

Got it

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: rocket757

Strategic Tu-160 bombers will arm dagger missiles, turning them into hypersonic systems

Everything is clear, but what range?
Such a large object does not come close to the enemy’s air defense control zone!

I considered placing a Dagger on the Tu-160 a year ago in an article Hypersonic "Dagger" on the Tu-160. Reality or fictionl?
https://topwar.ru/153987-giperzvukovoj-kinzhal-na-tu-160-realnost-ili-vymysel.html

[rocket757]

Impact systems evolve like everything else. it is a smashing SWORD.
It is clear that any serious power will not be limited to just active defense.
The question is ripe, they will find a way to implement it.

[Mountain shooter]

I believe that such a monster of 12 "Daggers" can be carried inside the fuselage. It has drum installations for cruise missiles. A couple of these planes on patrol - perhaps the foe will be scared ...

[Fedorov]

2 drums of 6 pieces? May God grant that in size they fit other parameters. It’s not in vain that they are being modernized, and I think not only because of avionics.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Fedorov

May God grant that in size they fit other parameters.

Redo to fit

[Fan-fan]

And in my opinion, the "old" Kh-101 missiles are much more effective, since they have a range of 5000 km and can reach any place in the United States, which the Dagger cannot do.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Fan-Fan

And in my opinion, the "old" X-101 missiles are much more effective,

"Dagger" hypersonic. This means it will be guaranteed to reach the target.
X-101 will not give such a guarantee

[Fan-fan]

It will not fly exactly, since the X-101 has a range of 10 times greater.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Fan-Fan

Will not fly for sure

Why not fly? It is almost impossible to shoot him down, unlike the X-101

since the X-101 range is 10 times greater.

Do you know the range of the Dagger?
What does the range have to do with it if the X-101 can be shot down, but the Dagger cannot?
Well, if the target of the "Dagger" is 10 times closer, will it fly?

[Cyrus]

What makes you think that a dagger cannot be shot down?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Cyrus

What makes you think that a dagger cannot be shot down?

Actually, the "Dagger" is a hypersonic missile. While there seems to be no such air defense systems in the world capable of bringing it down

[Cyrus]

Actually, no, this is an aeroballistic missile, in the second missile launcher the standard SM-3 block may well, it is basically intended for this.

[Lipchanin]

No, it's just a rocket

X-47M2 "Dagger" - the Russian hypersonic aviation missile system. Hypersonic missiles of the complex are capable of hitting both stationary objects and surface ships: aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers and frigates

Inet while funds to bring her down. When they created this block about hypersonic missiles, no one had ever heard of, and therefore, it couldn’t be intended for it in any way

[Cyrus]

I repeat Dagger this "... the missile is not a cruise, but" aeroballistic "- the trajectory of the missile is maintained at the expense of high speed. The MiG-31 fighter, specially upgraded to launch this missile, actually serves as its first stage, launching outside the dense layers of the atmosphere at altitudes from 12 to 15 thousand meters. The flight of the rocket also occurs at the border of the stratosphere in order to avoid significant air resistance. [11] ... "SM-3 is designed to destroy ballistic targets outside the atmosphere (warheads of ballistic missiles and spacecraft in low orbits). For their guidance, a modified CIUS "Aegis" is used. Rockets of this generation are used to intercept space targets and short- and medium-range ballistic missiles at any stage of the trajectory (during acceleration, ballistic stage and at atmospheric entry) and are designed to defend fleet formations or ground targets from a limited missile attack.
In general, the problem of all new types of weapons is scientific and technological revolution, you will not have time to come up with something new as a "shield" will come up to counterbalance it.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Cyrus

. The rocket is not winged, but

Well, after all, a rocket
And nobody can knock her down yet
You prove that you can bring down hypersonic.
Then what will happen to the X-101?
Don't run it at all?

[Cyrus]

I am trying to show that the bet on the "weapon of retaliation" is, in principle, wrong, you can shoot down everything and X101 / 102 and Dagger and Poseidon, the same applies to state weapons.
Scientific and technological revolution that happened in the 90s. excludes the very likelihood of a superweapon appearing in the near future without a shield from it (although I like the Wasabi project, there is a deep disturbing silence there).
What to do? "God is on the side of large battalions" - better than 300-500 MBRs (partly with vanguards, partly with classic warheads) than 10-15 Poseidons at best, better than hundreds of X101 / 102 and calibers than dozens of "Burevesnikov", etc. that as scientific research, Poseidon and Petrel are probably important, but in a military sense, zilch.
In addition, regarding the Dagger, placing it on the only heavy interceptor that can cover our ICBMs at the start and partially at the booster stage is not even a betrayal, it is worse, this is a mistake.

[PPD]

Do you know the range of the Dagger?

2000-2500km. from the airfield base.
Therefore, the defeat of targets at such a distance is still possible, but they will not reach America.
Range X 101 - 5500 km.
There are no daggers on that 22. These are just plans.
Read the news correctly- CAN appear, or maybe not.
News in tonality — there is now — a small minority.
The Iskander is difficult to shoot down because at the final segment the speed is higher than the possibility of air defense, and on the ballistic section the missile spends little time. And if this section is enlarged, then a hypothetical opportunity arises to overthrow it, and taking into account the constant approximation of NATO units also with the carrier.
And when all this, God forbid, will appear, you should expect a new portion of the stench from the "carriers of democracy."

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Lipchanin

It is almost impossible to shoot him down, unlike the X-101

Who told you such a heresy? There are missile defense systems that can bring down hypersonic targets. From a shorter distance, of course, but knocked down.

Quote: Lipchanin

Well, if the target of the "Dagger" is 10 times closer, will it fly?

But nothing that the X-101 is launched outside the enemy air defense, without exposing the carrier to unnecessary risk? And the dagger will cling to throw, breaking through the attacking fighters, and then through a swarm of enemy missiles. How many planes will survive before launch, and how many more will be knocked down at the departure? Range is a very important indicator. Let the rocket fly relatively slowly, but low, it is stealth, and there will be a whole swarm of them. It’s almost impossible to dismiss such a tricked-out layered air defense.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Gregory_45

And the dagger will cling to throw, breaking through the attacking fighters, and then through a swarm of enemy missiles.

He, that from 10 km will let it go? What is the range of the "Dagger"?
Why climb into the heat?

but low, she is stealth, and there will be a whole swarm of them.

So fly to her in America.
"Dagger" has nothing to do there. Goals closer in bulk

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Lipchanin

He that from 10 km will let her go?

and enemy fighter aircraft and AWACS patrols not 10 km from the target. At a distance of several hundred kilometers.

Quote: Lipchanin

What is the range of the "Dagger"?

enlighten

Quote: Lipchanin

"Dagger" has nothing to do there. Goals closer in bulk

which ones? And if the goals are closer, then why do we need an airplane with an intercontinental range? It can handle the same high-speed, but cheaper Tu-22M3, right?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Gregory_45

And if the goals are closer, then why do we need an airplane with an intercontinental range? It can handle the same high-speed, but cheaper Tu-22M3, right?

It will cope when the AUG approaches our shores.
At the distant approaches, just need the Tu-160.
With its altitude and speed, the Dagger's flight range will be greater than that of the Tu-22M3.
In general, I don’t understand why we even started this argument. Probably all the same, experts in the Moscow Defense Ministry have more than once calculated and tried on everything. It’s just that they don’t come to such decisions from the ceiling.
And they know more than us. Most likely, there are such compelling arguments for the Tu-160 alteration that we will not soon learn about

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Lipchanin

Most likely there are such compelling arguments for remaking the Tu-160

we have only 10 (10 Karl!) Tu-160 missile carriers. And these beautiful strategists want to turn into do not understand what. And get 6 strategists and 4 missile carriers with daggers? But who needs them in such quantity?

Quote: Lipchanin

Probably all the same, experts in the Moscow Defense Ministry have more than once calculated and tried on everything. They just don’t come to such decisions from the ceiling.

yeah, it’s either a marketing move, they’ll talk and forget, or conscious wrecking, the collapse of our aerial component of the nuclear triad. Choose what you like.

[Demon_is_ada]

Well, I wouldn’t say so ... the efficiency of such a tactical strike for a small mess increases significantly ... with a simple warhead, it doesn’t seem to the country the size and level of France to speak about the UBC. And the most annoying thing for sworn partners is that at least 20 years of age that is practically unintercepted from the word at least

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Lipchanin

Redo to fit

what will they redo - a rocket or a plane ???

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Gregory_45

what will they redo - a rocket or a plane ???

And neither one nor the other.
The carrier will remake the rocket mount

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Lipchanin

The carrier will remake the rocket mount

Do you offer to carry them on the outside?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Gregory_45

Do you offer to carry them on the outside?

I do not offer anything.
I am only saying that if a decision is made to equip the Tu-160 with a Caliber missile, it will be the plane that will be altered, not the missile.
And no one will drag on the external suspension either.
If such a decision is made, then they already know where and how to place it. And nobody, from the word absolutely, my proposals, like yours, do not care

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Lipchanin

if a decision is made to equip the Tu-160 with a "Caliber" rocket, the aircraft will undergo some kind of alteration

I guess there's a typo - do you need to read the Dagger? If so, then you should know that the Dagger is much larger than the currently used missiles of the X-555 and X-101 family. And they will fit one in each of the two bomb bay bomber. Those. instead of 12 cruise missiles (6 on each launcher), the aircraft will carry only two daggers, which I will explain to you.

Quote: Lipchanin

And nobody, from the word absolutely, my sentences ... do not care

so why are you writing anything at all?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Gregory_45

I guess there's a typo - do you need to read the Dagger?

Thank you

Those. instead of 12 cruise missiles (6 on each launcher), the aircraft will carry only two daggers, which I will explain to you.

I know that.
But you said about the external suspension, I answered

so why are you writing anything at all?

Just answered your question here

you suggest

[Pushkowed]

Alas, most likely he will only raise a couple of "Daggers". Even the Kh-55 (whose diameter is designed for a 533-mm torpedo tube) fit into the compartment in the 6-charge drum almost end-to-end. And the "Dagger" has a diameter of 920 mm. Moreover, stabilizers - it turns out more than a meter. The drum should have a diameter somewhere in the 2,5-3 times the diameter of the rocket (this is the most prestigious minimum!), So it turns out that more than one "Dagger" in each of the two compartments will not fit.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

I think such a monster of 12 "Daggers" can carry inside the fuselage

you cut the sturgeon. Compare the dimensions of the same X-101, X-55 and Dagger. God forbid that a pair of daggers fit into each bomb bay, but most likely, each will fit only one - i.e. two pieces on a plane. Not liquid? The backfire T-22M3 on external load will carry as much. Why karma already small number of strategists, turning them into a tactical missile carrier?

[Fedorov]

Yes, and the Tu-22m showed photos already like them. Maybe a fake. But personally, I believe.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Fedorov

. Maybe a fake.

Not a fake. They immediately said that three types of aircraft would be armed with "Daggers"

[pru-pavel]

Now it will be possible to write in the news about the fact that ".... strategic modernized aerospace hypersonic complexes Tu-160M ​​(abbreviated as SMVKGZK Tu-160M) took off for dagger patrols ...."

[Lipchanin]

Quote: pru-pavel

strategic modernized aerospace hypersonic complexes Tu-160M ​​(abbreviated as SMVKGZK Tu-160M) took off on dagger patrols .... "

Sounds nice

[Nikolaevich I]

The legend is fresh ... but there are delusions! In the "bundle" MiG-31- "Dagger" MiG-31 serves as a booster for the "Dagger" ... In order to achieve the "planned" characteristics of the "Dagger", the MiG-31 "must" launch the "Dagger", reaching a certain speed. ..not less! Tu-160, of course, is supersonic, but will it be able to provide the required launch speed to the Dagger? Will the question arise if the Dagger is equipped with an additional launching accelerator? How will the length of the product increase in this case? ? Will it then be possible to "squeeze" into the Tu-160 a "reasonable" number of "daggers"? ...

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

The Tu-160 is, of course, supersonic, but will it be able to provide the required launch speed to the Dagger?

Which one?
"Dagger" no matter what speed to start
It’s just that with a higher acceleration speed, the range increases, that's all

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Lipchanin

"Dagger" no matter what speed to start

And what kind of cue then did the MiG-31 bearer of the "dagger"? Moreover, with the condition of starting at the highest possible speed! At the same time, the MiG-31 carries one "Dagger" missile! Why not then immediately arm the Tu-22M3 with a "dagger" ... and the Tu-95 at the same time ?! If "Dagger" does not matter? And what about the "range"? "Different ranges are needed ... all sorts of ranges are important!

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Moreover, with the condition of starting at the highest possible speed!

There is no such condition. Just the speed of the carrier depends on the range of the rocket

At the same time, the MiG-31 carries one "Dagger" missile! P

Can no longer carry.
For a nuclear warhead with a nuclear warhead and one rocket is enough

Why not immediately arm the Tu-22M3 with a "dagger".

They will arm. If not already armed. In any case, such infa passed

Tu-95 at the same time

He is subsonic

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Lipchanin

Moreover, with the condition of starting at the highest possible speed!

There is no such condition. Just the speed of the carrier depends on the range of the rocket

Against this "fad" (flight range) I do not argue ... but the range of hypersonic speeds and the "path length" that the "dagger" overcomes on "hypersonic" depends on the initial speed of the carrier + the engine performance ... the more speed, the "longer" the "dagger" is called hypersonic!

Quote: Lipchanin

For a nuclear warhead with a nuclear warhead and one rocket is enough

Eka you waved! Do you absolutely need to start a nuclear war? And it's not a 100% fact that a vigorous rocket will certainly reach the target! (and if they get knocked down? Let not "now", but in 8-10 years ...? ... but an error when entering coordinates ...? but a technical malfunction? and the results of electronic warfare?)

Quote: Lipchanin

Why not immediately arm the Tu-22M3 with a "dagger".

They will arm. If not already armed.

Yes, the "question" is not whether they will arm or not arm (!), But what "form" ?! "Dagger" -X-47M2 (what is available ...) ... or modified ... for example, with some kind of "upper stage" ... of the hypothetical type of X-49M !?

Quote: Lipchanin

Tu-95 at the same time

He is subsonic

Duc, they themselves said ... the carrier speed affects only the range! Maybe the range with the Tu-95 will come in handy? Or if you slobber over the corresponding "upper stage" and then the Tu-95 will do?

[Pushkowed]

The Dagger is essentially a modified Iskander. Iskander is about 7,3 meters long. The "Dagger" has a tail fairing, which makes the overall length of the rocket longer: 8,3 ... 8,5 meters. The bomb bay of the Tu-160 is designed for missiles up to 10,8 meters long, so you can attach an accelerator. Although there remains the question of the expediency of developing a separate modification of the "Dagger". The drum set will still have to be dismantled (it is not designed for "Daggers"), the number of "Daggers" will most likely be 2 pieces (1 per compartment). The possibility of making at least a 3-charge drum raises huge doubts (what will be the side loads on the holders in this case ?!). But even in its original, unmodified form, the Dagger + Tu-160 link is of interest. It's like an airborne Iskander. He flew up, started up, flew away. The Dagger is more difficult to intercept than a cruise missile. The subsonic launch range, of course, will be short. But still farther than the Iskander (he generally shoots from the ground).

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Pushkowed

Range at start from subsonic,

What a subsonic. They are put on supersonic carriers

[Pushkowed]

Can a supersonic Tu-160 open a bomb gate directly at supersonic? Or should he first slow down to subsonic?

[Iline]

Tu-160 strategic missile carrier. And to redo it only under, albeit hypersonic, but shorter range, missiles, in a smaller quantity than he can now hang on board, this is stupid enough. To work at such ranges, there is a Tu-22M3 and there is a sense of improvements for Daggers.

[Fan-fan]

So I tried, I tried in my comments to convey to the people the idea that 12 X-101 cruise missiles are much more important than a pair of Daggers and empty. Moreover, the X-101 can destroy the target, approximately, with a small city anywhere in the United States. A dagger - it just does not reach the targets inside the United States.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Fan-Fan

So I tried, I tried in my comments to convey to the people the thought

So they are trying to convey to you that there is nothing for "Dagger" to do in America. Let X fly there.
"The dagger is needed primarily to destroy the AUG, and it does not need such a range.
Each rocket has its own tasks.

[Fan-fan]

Why, then, convert the Tu-160 super-plane into a carrier Daggers, Daggers and aircraft can carry easier. And the Tu-160 is threatening precisely because it can hit targets in the depths of the United States.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Fan-Fan

Why then remodel the Tu-160 super-plane into a dagger carrier,

Speed, range, time spent in the air.
That is, the possibility of defeating AUG on distant approaches. And the MiG-31 is already at close quarters. Something like this
Yes, probably they will not alter everything, there is no sense in this. They will redo a few pieces and that's it. How do they not alter all Migi under the "Daggers". The rest will remain strategists

[voyaka uh]

"It's like an air-based Iskander. It flew in, launched, flew away. Intercepting the Dagger is more difficult than a cruise missile" ////
----

You have outlined everything exactly.

[Leprikon5656]

The news somehow flashed on the network that allegedly Chinese hackers said (unofficially) that they had created a virus that could give a false signal to the Russian Armed Forces that the US launched a nuclear attack on us .... well, with all the consequences .... interestingly, they lie ??? If they don’t lie, then daggers can come in handy! And not only them)))

[Same lech]

... interesting, they lie ???

They don’t lie ... I have a nuclear suitcase lying under the table ... you open it and there ... Stolichnaya, Zubrovka ... Finnish ... click on any such nuclear strike, you’ll get mom not to worry.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

.Capital, Bison ... Finnish ...

I have the same one. Only the model is old

[Same lech]

Where are the White Sea Canal cigarettes?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: The same Lech

Where are the White Sea Canal cigarettes?

Didn't hit the frame

[Winnie76]

Yes, you are simply a follower of healthy lifestyle

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Winnie76

Yes, you are simply a follower of healthy lifestyle

And then

[KCA]

And how do they plan to launch their virus in the SPRN? And do they even know what OS it is? What are the network sharing protocols? Or do you think that there is Windows 95 or XP, as in America, and the network works according to Ethernet standards and exchanges IP packets?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: KCA

And how do they plan to launch their virus in the SPRN? And do they even know what OS it is? What are the network sharing protocols? Or do you think that there is Windows 95 or XP, as in America, and the network works according to Ethernet standards and exchanges IP packets?

Yeah it's a joke

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Leprikon5656

then daggers can come in handy!

Cut the sausage for a snack?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Leprikon5656

capable of giving a false signal to the Russian Armed Forces that the US launched a nuclear strike on us

So what? For this, there are SPRN radars (which will detect launching rockets over many thousand kilometers), satellites (which will see torches of launching rockets), as well as a direct hot line between the heads of state and senior military officials, (are you awesome there, or what? What? ??) to make sure a false attack or not. In a rush, no one will press a button without making sure that a nuclear attack has been carried out. Because of the false alarms and failures in the technique, which said that an incredible enemy was carrying out a nuclear attack, there were not one or two during the years of the Cold War. The mechanism is worked out to the smallest detail.

[Flanker27]

I think it will be carrying the product on an external sling in order to provide initial speed. It is hardly possible to open hatches and drop a 2M rocket for launch.

[Grigory_45]

Quote from Flanker27

It is hardly possible to open hatches and drop a 2M rocket for launch.

very possible. In practice, supersonic bombing was used, in particular, from the American B-1 and F-22. And they carry weapons in the internal compartments. In order to push the product out, use AKU. So the dagger will start at a speed of 2M

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

Someone blurted out something, referring to an unknown source and everyone had straight hats flying into the air. They turn a strategy into a tactical bomber and rejoice.

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay

Someone blurted out something, referring to an unknown source and everyone had straight hats flying into the air. They turn a strategy into a tactical bomber and rejoice.

1. From the fact that he will be able to carry the "Dagger", he will not cease to be strategic.
2. From strategic aviation, from the point of view of nuclear deterrence, there is almost no sense.
3. Strategic bombers and missile submarines are the only "long arm" of our military at present. So some kind of Papuan will send us, for example, seizing a ship, and we have nothing to answer, just to wipe ourselves off ...

[Grigory_45]

Quote: AVM

From the fact that he will be able to carry the "Dagger", he will not cease to be strategic.

Will stop. Aircraft can carry only Daggers, in the amount of 4 pieces, the current range of weapons under it can no longer be suspended.

Quote: AVM

From strategic aviation, from the point of view of nuclear deterrence, almost no sense.

Quote: AVM

Strategic bombers and missile submarines are the only "long arm" of our military at present.

don’t think you contradict yourself?

Quote: AVM

some kind of Papuan will send us, for example, capturing a ship, but there’s nothing for us to answer, just wipe it ...

yeah, here's the Papuans only daggers and shoot, nothing more ..)))

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: AVM

From the fact that he will be able to carry the "Dagger", he will not cease to be strategic.

Will stop. Aircraft can carry only Daggers, in the amount of 4 pieces, the current range of weapons under it can no longer be suspended.

This is exactly? Or will there be different equipment options? It is possible that installation / disassembly will be more difficult than simply outweighing the X-101 // X-100, but is it possible?

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: AVM

From strategic aviation, from the point of view of nuclear deterrence, almost no sense.

Quote: AVM

Strategic bombers and missile submarines are the only "long arm" of our military at present.

don’t think you contradict yourself?

No. It may be necessary to defeat naval targets, which seems to be stated at the Dagger. In addition, the Tu-160 + Dagger will have the highest reaction rate. Above is only for MBR with a non-nuclear block. I considered all this a year ago: https://topwar.ru/153987-giperzvukovoj-kinzhal-na-tu-160-realnost-ili-vymysel.html

A little more here: https://topwar.ru/161030-strategicheskie-konvencionalnye-sily-nositeli-i-vooruzhenie.html

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: AVM

some kind of Papuan will send us, for example, capturing a ship, but there’s nothing for us to answer, just wipe it ...

yeah, here's the Papuans only daggers and shoot, nothing more ..)))

So there is nothing. Do you think the X-101 or Caliber (launch from a submarine) will be cheaper? and we do not manure free-falling ones, and the range may not be enough.

And I also have big doubts about the expediency of bombers for nuclear deterrence. If for an offensive strike still no matter where, then as a means of retaliatory strike, they are useless, considered this question here: https://topwar.ru/166210-zakat-jadernoj-triady-vozdushnyj-i-nazemnyj-komponenty-sjas .html

[Grigory_45]

Quote: AVM

Or will there be different equipment options?

will not be. The drums will have to be dismantled; instead, they must install AKU for Daggers. Well, the control system, of course, also needs to be redone.

Quote: AVM

It may be necessary to destroy naval targets

Tu-22M3 were created for this task. No need to make an anti-ship aircraft from a strategist. He has slightly different tasks.

Quote: AVM

some kind of Papuan will send us, for example, capturing a ship, but there’s nothing for us to answer, just wipe it ...

cruise missiles and guided bombs are most suitable for such purposes. Or do you put some special meaning into the concept of "Papuan"?

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: AVM

Or will there be different equipment options?

will not be. The drums will have to be dismantled; instead, they must install AKU for Daggers. Well, the control system, of course, also needs to be redone.

Quote: AVM

It may be necessary to destroy naval targets

Tu-22M3 were created for this task. No need to make an anti-ship aircraft from a strategist. He has slightly different tasks.

And what are the strategic tasks now? Fly close to Norway and England?

- The Tu-22M3 has much less range and combat load.
- We do not produce them anymore, and Tu-160, probably, will be. If we had as many Tu-22M3 as the USSR ...
- How many Tu-22M3 will drag the Daggers, at what range and at normal speed? And how many Tu-160? On the Tu-160 + Dagger or Zircon, you can get such a response speed that you can not get otherwise. Immediately after the discovery of AUG or KUG - start, supersonic throw, launch and farewell. There is no other way for us to solve this problem. Tu-22M3 with one dagger, we will not scratch so much.

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: AVM

some kind of Papuan will send us, for example, capturing a ship, but there’s nothing for us to answer, just wipe it ...

cruise missiles and guided bombs are most suitable for such purposes. Or do you put some special meaning into the concept of "Papuan"?

Yes, who knows. The world is unpredictable. Any country that does not possess nuclear weapons.
I admit that the word "Papuan" may not sound entirely correct.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: AVM

The Tu-22M3 has much less range and combat load.

he will drag two daggers
there is such a thing as a refueling system in the air
Are you hoping for an AUG attack in the open ocean? This is pure suicide without the cover of its fighter aircraft. Which we do not have, and, apparently, is no longer in sight. All that remains for us is to prevent the ASG from approaching the coast at a distance of effective airstrikes. The Tu-22M3 will do just fine with this.

Quote: AVM

How many Tu-22M3 will drag Daggers, at what range and at normal speed? And how many Tu-160?

The Tuk-160 will also take a pair of Daggers. More bombs will not fit.
In addition, the Tu-160 we have only 10, and backfires - six dozen. Some of them, converted for Daggers, are quite able to close the gap until truly hypersonic long-range missiles appear.

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: AVM

The Tu-22M3 has much less range and combat load.

he will drag two daggers

On an external sling? He will not come to supersonic.

Quote: Gregory_45

there is such a thing as a refueling system in the air

Which immediately complicates the combat operation and greatly reduces the reaction time. Yes, and we have few refuelers.

Quote: Gregory_45

Are you hoping for an AUG attack in the open ocean? This is pure suicide without the cover of its fighter aircraft. Which we do not have, and, apparently, is no longer in sight. All that remains for us is to prevent the ASG from approaching the coast at a distance of effective airstrikes. The Tu-22M3 will do just fine with this.

According to all calculations, the range of the Dagger (the missile itself) is not less than 1000 km. The Tu-160 has a radius of action at a cruising speed of 1,5 M, without refueling - 2000 km.
With the fastest possible access to the target with a cruising speed of 1,5M, the total radius of destruction of the Dagger complex will be 3000 km. This mode will provide a minimum response time to the threat and allow you to act in the interests of three fleets. The maximum time, from the moment of take-off (without taking into account the time of preparing the aircraft for take-off), to the moment of hitting the target at a distance of 3000-3500 km, in this mode will be approximately 2-2,5 hours.

In the most economical mode, when flying at subsonic speeds at high altitude, the radius of impact will be 7000-7500 km. This mode allows you to use the Tu-160М / М2 with the Dagger complex in the interests of all four fleets.

No other weapon can realize this. Given the short flight time and the launch distance of 1000 km, it is far from a fact that the enemy will organize a “meeting”. The F-18 has a range of 720 km (will not reach at all), the F-35 has 1140 km (they will wander back and forth, because they need to be shot down beforehand, and not after the launch of the Daggers). And if the dagger has a range of not 1000, but 1200-1500 km?

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: AVM

How many Tu-22M3 will drag Daggers, at what range and at normal speed? And how many Tu-160?

The Tuk-160 will also take a pair of Daggers. More bombs will not fit.

I would still count on 4 missiles, 2 on a bomb bay.

Quote: Gregory_45

In addition, the Tu-160 we have only 10, and backfires - six dozen. Some of them, converted for Daggers, are quite able to close the gap until truly hypersonic long-range missiles appear.

So it is planned to release 50 pcs. new ones. If 15 of them are made under the "Dagger", then this is 60 missiles in one hit. This is extremely difficult to repel any air defense. And if it is supplemented by a strike from the anti-ship missiles from the SSBN (https://topwar.ru/153714-atomnye-podvodnye-lodki-nositeli-krylatyh-raket-realnost-i-perspektivy.html), then KUG / AUG will not be greeted.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: AVM

On an external sling?

naturally. In the same way as the Tu-22M3 drags X - 22/32

Quote: AVM

Yes, and we have a little refueling.

few. And this disadvantage will have to be eliminated by anyone. The current fleet of tankers does not meet the needs of tactical, strategic or transport aviation. Need to solve the problem, not dance from it

Quote: AVM

With the fastest possible access to the target with a cruising speed of 1,5M, the total radius of destruction of the Dagger complex will be 3000 km.

But what is the range of Backfires taking off from coastal airfields? It will be comparable with the radius of the Tu-160 flying out of Engels. Yes, and reaction time - too

Quote: AVM

Given the short flight time and the launch distance of 1000 km, it is far from a fact that the enemy will organize a “meeting”.

you completely discard the AWACS of the enemy? After all, there will hang not only deck Hokkai, but also land Sentry, and not in a single copy. Attacking planes will be detected even before the missiles are launched, especially those flying at high altitudes. And they will organize a "warm" welcome.

Quote: AVM

So it is planned to release 50 pcs. new ones. If there are 15 units

keyword - planned. And - until what year ?. Moreover, not all plans are destined to come true, and we, alas, see this in all directions. And we need airplanes now. There are backfires that are great for this purpose, there are relatively many of them, and most of the resource has not yet crashed.

[SHOPPING MALL]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: AVM

With the fastest possible access to the target with a cruising speed of 1,5M, the total radius of destruction of the Dagger complex will be 3000 km.

But what is the range of Backfires taking off from coastal airfields? It will be comparable with the radius of the Tu-160 flying out of Engels. Yes, and reaction time - too

I agree, but there are two nuances:
- Coastal airfields are more vulnerable to a strike from the Tomahawk type of aircraft, and even carrier-based aircraft;
- Tu-160 can operate on supersonic in the interests of the Northern, Baltic and Black Sea fleets, and on subsonic Pacific, and Tu-22M3 will have to be relocated back and forth.

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: AVM

Given the short flight time and the launch distance of 1000 km, it is far from a fact that the enemy will organize a “meeting”.

you completely discard the AWACS of the enemy? After all, there will hang not only deck Hokkai, but also land Sentry, and not in a single copy. Attacking planes will be detected even before the missiles are launched, especially those flying at high altitudes. And they will organize a "warm" welcome.

They will be heavily constrained by maneuver; they will have to stay where AWACs and ground fighters will be. By itself, AWACS will not give them protection, what is the use of it if there is not enough radius for carrier-based aviation "to meet"? Anyway, covering the circle with a radius of 1000 km on all sides is still a task; there are not enough AWACS aircraft. Given the radius of the Tu-160 on the fly, you can use the RTR aircraft to detect AWACS and enter from the other side.

Let's say there is AWACS, how many fighters will be next to it - 2 cars, 4 cars? How often do you have to rotate them? Or keep a refueling tank nearby and constantly refuel them? And if you call from the ground or an aircraft carrier - it will be too late, by their arrival the Tu-160 / Tu-22M3 will be fired by Daggers and fly home.

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: AVM

So it is planned to release 50 pcs. new ones. If there are 15 units

keyword - planned. And - until what year ?. Moreover, not all plans are destined to come true, and we, alas, see this in all directions. And we need airplanes now. There are backfires that are great for this purpose, there are relatively many of them, and most of the resource has not yet crashed.

Of course, this is only on condition that the plans for the production of new cars come true. Or if operational, without returning to the factory, replacement of missile launchers is provided. For example, if during a day you can replace the launchers for the Dagger with launchers for the X-100/101 (or develop unified launchers), then you can modify all existing Tu-160s.

[Cyrus]

Right about them, Lavrov said right.

[Maks1995]

They seem to be only 10? + another 15 Mig with Daggers?

Everything seems to be good, except for the number.

[Alexander X]

Here I am amazed at the forum participants. Do they not read articles on VO or just provocative stuffing on special orders? They write that our underwater strategists "can be seen as in the palm of their hand" and their position can be determined at any time by any sensors, buoys and from space, although the strategists try to hide like gophers in burrows. And then they write that the enormous surface masses have become with working radars and "smoking" pipes of diesel engines and turbines and noisy, like a thousand forges, it is difficult to see. And "people hawala", judging by the discussions.

[Same lech]

They write that our underwater strategists "can be seen as in the palm of their hand" and their position can be determined at any time by any sensors, buoys and from space, although the strategists try to hide like gophers in burrows.

That's exactly what they write ... and what they actually see there, only God knows ... so that people are hailing from both sides.

[Ros 56]

AUG striped enough kondrashka, as they learn about the take-off of strategists, and hell knows that he is suspended.

[Cyrus]

Not enough, strategists have their own tasks ...

[Ros 56]

Quite right, one task is to distract attention, the other to drown the barmaley, the third to duplicate the second upon failure, everyone has different tasks, but they work in one basket. And the fourth on the opposite side frees its drum from cruise missiles.

[Cyrus]

Feel free to ask why? It seems like the Tu 160 has completely different tasks?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Cyrus

Feel free to ask why? It seems like the Tu 160 has completely different tasks?

absolutely right. The dagger bears a more logical look Tu-22. They just sharpened, including to fight ships.

[Shadow shooter]

As far as I know, during the Cold War, each AUG was followed by a communications vessel, which constantly transmitted its coordinates to the right place. I think it’s easy to implement the same trick in our time

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Shadow Shooter

after each AUG as a shadow our communication vessel followed and constantly transmitted its coordinates to where necessary.

And artillery cruisers walked in direct line of sight. To cover in one gulp and then die yourself. Gorgeous.

and??? Well, I passed the coordinates, and what's the point? This ship will be sunk in a matter of minutes, and it is necessary to direct the planes for a longer time (I hope there is no need to explain that they will shoot outside the ship's air defense zone?). Moreover, this in no way removes the problem of target designation - you need to "highlight" the target until you sweat until the "head" of the rocket itself closes on it.

Quote: Shadow Shooter

I think it’s easy to implement the same trick in our time

this boat is a floating coffin. It is not necessary to send boats, but to increase the satellite constellation.

[Shadow shooter]

I think when it comes to the start of real missile launches on real AUG, no one will count how many floating coffins where they lost. If the boat fulfills the mission and tells you in which square you need to launch a couple of three daggers with nuclear warheads, it will turn all participants in this action into floating coffins (an aircraft carrier and escort ships are floating graves in this case)

[Grigory_45]

Tu-160 is equipped with dagger missiles

only for some reason they are modestly silent that after such a "modernization" the missile carrier will be able to carry only "Daggers" and will not be able to use the current range of weapons (the drum sets will have to be dismantled, since the "Dagger" is much larger and heavier than cruise missiles. Doubtful replacement.

[Old26]

Quote: The same Lech

Good deal .. The TU-160 from a great height can get US AUG daggers without approaching the AUG aviation range.
The number of Dagger carriers has increased ... for the Americans, this is already a big problem.

What good is there. Another delirium and a desire to "plug a round hole with a square plug", Does the TU-160 have any other tasks than hunting for AUG? We no longer need strategic aviation. Okay, it would be understandable if there was such a situation as the states, which have about 60 B-1B bombers that have been withdrawn from the strategic forces. Then, in the same situation, we could equip such bombers with "Daggers".
And here one and a half dozen really serious strategists, and they are offered to multiply them by zero.

Quote: The same LYOKHA

And can over-the-horizon radars be able to fix such a mass of floating iron at large distances?

And what, ZGRLS is a panacea? And then there are 2 of them. One, moreover, is not yet on alert. Well, they will detect the AUG for 3000 km. What's next? They will still not be able to give target designation, not in speech mode give the command to the navigator of the TU-160: "Turn 42,5 ° to the right. There, at a distance of 2600 km, is the American AUG."

Quote: krot

Another option: A-50, A-100 .. In my opinion, now there is enough capacity for target designation and no one will disclose in detail the mechanism of this

A-100 is not yet. A-50 in such a scanty amount that it is not enough for all the aerospace forces ...

Quote: Fan-Fan

I read somewhere that the A-50 sees a large ship in only 400 km. Then the question is, will they let him into the AUG, so that he sees her, since the radius of the F-18 is 800 km.

Detection range of large marine targets with EPR up to 250 sq. M - to the radio horizon. The practical ceiling of the A-50 is 12000 meters. From this height, the radio horizon will be about 460 km. In order to detect the AUG from afar, he needs to get far enough from his airfield. At a distance of 1000 km, the time of barrage is 4 hours. How many planes and crews are needed to keep the direction under surveillance around the clock

Quote: hydrox

Explain, please, from what distance and WHAT are you going to "hammer" the receivers of the ZG radar located in the middle of the European part of Russia?

And the point is to hammer it. AUG can safely enter unnoticed into the Mediterranean Sea. It will also pass quietly into the Eastern Mediterranean and then let the ZGRLS personnel select the necessary target against the background of thousands of targets in the sky over Europe

Quote: KCA

The news is with VO, though she is a little over 3 years old, probably a lot has changed:

There was no system in a working version, and it is not. It was supposed to consist of 2-4 "Lotos" satellites (radio-technical / electronic reconnaissance) and a radar "Pion", as it was not, and is not. Although they should have been launched back in 2017-2018 ...

Quote: Victor_B

In fact, these satellites are low-orbit. It seems not to be in polar orbits.
24 satellites in polar orbits will make it possible to track the point of minutes for 20 with a period of more than an hour.
Yes and no we have 24 "Lian"
Actually windows, the absence of such satellites can be measured for hours.
At hour AUG will run away for fifty kilometers.

"Lotuses" fly in a 900-km orbit with an inclination of about 68 °. "Peony" should be launched into a sun-synchronous orbit

Quote: Mountain Shooter

I believe that such a monster of 12 "Daggers" can be carried inside the fuselage. It has drum installations for cruise missiles. A couple of these planes on patrol - perhaps the foe will be scared ...

They won't play on a drum kit. Their diameter is such that the drum with the "Daggers" will not fit into the bomb bay. So there is only one thing left - to place the "Daggers" in the bomb bay on the side wall of the compartment. Whether it will fit into compartment 4 of the "dagger" or not - I don't know. It all depends on the "depth" of the compartment. But even if it fits - a maximum of 8 "Daggers". And most likely 4 (two in the bomb bay). But here's the question. The range of the dagger when launched from the MIG is determined by the following parameters: speed of the Blink, the height of the launch. Approximately 700 km of the section (subsonic flight of the complex and supersonic) gives an increase in the range of the complex of 700 km, according to the approximate calculations that were in the network
The flight range of the DAGGER is determined by the initial speed and altitude. For, in essence, the Dagger system is a two-stage rocket system, where the first stage is an airplane, the second is the Dagger itself.

Question # 1. Of course, the TU-160 will be able to reach supersonic speed, no one doubts this. But how at a speed of 2M the bomb bay doors will open and the "item" will be dropped (if it fits into the bomb bay of course) ?? Or will you have to slow down to subsonic ???.

Question # 2. The ceiling of Tu-160 is 16 km, which is lower than that of the same MIG-31.

If you have to drop the speed to subsonic and reduce the launch altitude in comparison with the MIG, then in any case the final speed after the end of the OUT of the "Dagger" will be lower, and the range of the "Dagger" itself will also decrease.

What, then, is the point in equipping the TU-160 with this complex. If the speed and range of the "Dagger" itself is less. The only plus is that the launch of the "Dagger" can be carried out not 700 km from the home airfield, but at a distance of several thousand kilometers. Is it worth the “game” to deprive yourself of a strategic bomber ????

Quote: Winnie76

If an aircraft carrier actively raises and lands planes, the radar is supposed to work. Radio intelligence. Satellites. UAVs flying and underwater. The same Mig-31 as a scout. A-50/100. A bunch of options

You wrote the absolutely right thing. But the question is ...
1. Radio intelligence. Satellites. We don’t have so many radio reconnaissance satellites, and like us they have documents covering the satellite environment. That is, when and at what distance will this or that radio intelligence satellite pass. It is certainly unrealistic to disguise the AUG, but it is possible to plot a course so that it is out of the control zone of this satellite for as long as possible. As well as observe the radio silence mode at the time of satellite passage ...
2. UAVs. Flying and underwater. The only flying drone with a long patrol time is still not on duty and not in series. Now they want an improved version to develop it. So there’s no drone that could fly in the course of 1,5-2 days. There are no underwater drones.
3. How many MIG-31s ​​are planned to be used as scouts. Either they want to use it as an interceptor, then as a mini AWACS aircraft, then as a carrier of the "Dagger", then as a reconnaissance aircraft. But its quantity is not insane
4. A-50 / A-100. The second is not yet in service, and the first in such a scanty amount that it will have to be torn to pieces to plug holes

[Sema0]

Quote: Old26

Quote: Fan-Fan
I read somewhere that the A-50 sees a large ship in only 400 km. Then the question is, will they let him into the AUG, so that he sees her, since the radius of the F-18 is 800 km.

Detection range of large marine targets with EPR up to 250 sq. M - to the radio horizon. The practical ceiling of the A-50 is 12000 meters. From this height, the radio horizon will be about 460 km. In order to detect the AUG from afar, he needs to get far enough from his airfield. At a distance of 1000 km, the time of barrage is 4 hours. How many planes and crews are needed to keep the direction under surveillance around the clock

Old26, confuse the concept radio horizon and radio visibility. Bring illiterate expression from Wikipedia, "The detection range of large sea targets with EPR up to 250 sq. m - up to the radio horizon." Where the altitude of the A-50 is not even given.
Your example. With the ceiling at the A-50 - 12000 m, the radio horizon is D = 451.52 km, however, with the superstructure of the destroyer “Airli Berk” 45 m, you can find the target at a distance D = 479.17 km, not on 460 km. Do not forget, at the same time, the range of the A-50 radar.

[Old26]

Quote: Lipchanin

Why not fly? It is almost impossible to shoot him down, unlike the X-101

Who told you that this is impossible? The maximum speed at the end of the active section at an altitude of about 150 kilometers, or maybe more. And when it starts to "descend" down, it will slow down in the atmosphere according to the laws of physics. The same Iskander at its apogee has a speed of just over 6M, and when it hits the ground - 700-800 m / s, that is, less than 3M. What, everyone has already forgotten how to shoot down high-altitude targets moving at a speed of 3M ???
But in order to bring down the X-101, you must use the AWACS aircraft without fail and the farther from the target that the X-101 should hit, the better.

Quote: Fedorov

Yes, and the Tu-22m showed photos already like them. Maybe a fake. But personally, I believe.

Photo from TU-22M3 I have not seen. I have met a drawing of some blogger writing on aviation topics. There were several drawings of TU-22M3 silhouettes with various pendants (bombs, missiles). And even then, the guys who served on the TU-22M3 here at VO argued that 4 pieces of the TU-22M3 would not pull. since with the four "Daggers" positioned, the landing gear doors will not close ...

Quote: Lipchanin

Not a fake. They immediately said that three types of aircraft would be armed with "Daggers"

If not fake - plz link to this photo. And what they said - so we say a lot. For example, that "Sarmat" will send 10 tons to the adversary through the South Pole. Or that our "Vanguard" can fly in the dense layers of the atmosphere at a speed of 10M ...

[Sema0]

Quote: Old26

Quote: Lipchanin
Not a fake. They immediately said that three types of aircraft would be armed with "Daggers"

If not fake - plz link to this photo. And what they said - so we say a lot. For example, that "Sarmat" will send 10 tons to the adversary through the South Pole. Or that our "Vanguard" can fly in the dense layers of the atmosphere at a speed of 10M ...

Quote: Old26

Subject: US Air Force closes HCSW hypersonic weapon development program
Quote: Thrifty
Alexey, you obviously do not want to understand that if the Avangard were pure "inertial" without an engine, then there would be no sense in it! Possibility of maneuver, braking, or even additional acceleration due to the loss of altitude and speed during a long flight in dense layers atmosphere and make a hypersonic missile combat and not passive, capable of working only over areas, then there is no point in such a missile. And the presence of an engine, and the possibility of maneuvering and additional acceleration, makes the Vanguard and Zircon weapons capable of maneuvering ACTIVELY at the expense of the engine to hit a nominal moving target, such as a cruiser.

... Fourth. In dense layers of the atmosphere such an apparatus does not fly. At speeds of 10M and at altitudes of approximately 11 km he has a temperature of about 6000 ° C, that is, the sun. In dense layers, he can only move by reducing the speed to supersonic ...

Again untruth, Old26! At speeds of 10 M and at altitudes from 11 km to 25 km, the temperature rises to 4060 ° C (up to 4333 ° K), and when braking, the temperature rises to 4277 ° C (up to 4550 ° K). Therefore, much is possible and real.

[Andrey.AN]

Of course, the AUG is potentially no less strategic goals than terrorists in Syria, for example, it’s technically not difficult to carve out places for external suspensions for a pair of such missiles on the Tu-160, the range will suffer a little, it’s uncritical to refuel after take-off.

[lvov_aleksey]

fear the Varangians, and to be honest I don’t see the point of putting it to white swans!

[Old26]

Quote: Sema0

Again untruth, Old26! At speeds of 10 M and at altitudes from 11 km to 25 km, the temperature rises to 4060 ° C (up to 4333 ° K), and when braking, the temperature rises to 4277 ° C (up to 4550 ° K). Therefore, much is possible and real.

I apologize. He wrote from memory. The height is not from 11 to 25 km, but from 0 to 11 km. Then, respectively, the temperatures will be 5763 and 6051 ° K