From UAVs to cruise missiles: military cooperation between Ukraine and Turkey is gaining momentum

While Vladimir Putin and Recep Erdogan are launching new gas pipelines hand in hand and deciding the fate of Libya at various international conferences, Ankara continues to develop military-technical cooperation with such a rather dubious partner from Moscow's point of view as Ukraine.

As it became known, the other day a meeting of the joint Ukrainian-Turkish commission dealing with this issue was held at the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. Apparently, the meeting was quite fruitful.

In addition to the signing by the representatives of the Ukrainian military department and the directorate of the defense industry of Turkey of the relevant intergovernmental protocols that fully confirm all the numerous agreements reached even under the last president of Ukraine, according to official reports about this event, new further steps are outlined in its course aimed at implementing joint projects in Kiev and Ankara in the field of armaments and military equipment, as well as cooperation of enterprises of the defense industry sector of two countries. Immediately after the end of the official part of the negotiations, the Turkish delegation went on a working visit to the most important objects of the military-industrial complex "nezalezhnoy", such as the State Enterprise GKKB "Luch" and SJSC "Artem". Some units of Ukroboronprom did not ignore.

The gentlemen from Ankara are clearly eyeing the most promising enterprises of the local military-industrial complex from their point of view, who managed to survive during the years of its total collapse and plunder. Ukrainian gunsmiths, who found themselves in an extremely difficult situation due to the complete breakdown of military-technical cooperation with Russia, are ready to seize on any order, if only it would be paid, and even in currency. In particular, the outcome of this visit will be the delivery by the Ukrainian manufacturer Ivchenko-Progress to the Turkish armed forces from 2021 to 2030 of AI-450 turboprop engines to the Akinci operational-strategic UAV and modernized AI-25 turbojet to some “promising unmanned fighter” . Moreover, the company plans to export to Turkey more than 500 engines for cruise missiles in the amount of $ 600 million.

Recall that the military cooperation between Ankara and Kiev began, in fact, after a visit to the Turkish capital of the previous Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko in 2018, which, based on the results of its trip, announced a real “breakthrough” in ensuring the defense capability of the “non-fallow” one. It turned out that it was a matter of delivering Bayraktar TB2 operational-tactical level UAVs to the APU. In the mouth of Poroshenko, these machines turned into a "formidable weapon"capable of hitting armored vehicles, fortifications and engineering, as well as naval targets." In a word, it was almost possible to bomb Moscow ... By the way, in the Turkish press at that time there were serious concerns about how Putin would react to such gesheft and whether they would come sideways in Turkish-Russian relations. Apparently, they survived there in vain.

As you can see, in fact, no reaction followed, and if so, then Kiev and Ankara are ready to move on to more serious projects. Since we are talking about some kind of “joint production” and other cooperation, it is logical to assume that Ukraine, which supplies engines for cruise missiles, will want to get hold of them by itself. And, perhaps, with something else, more serious. In the end, the Turkish army has enough weapons, long outdated morally, but quite deadly, which the APU may be interested in. Especially - given the fact that the Turkish armed forces for many years "sharpened" just under counter-guerrilla operations against the same Kurds. In particular, the notorious UAV Bayraktar TB2 was created specifically for them.

It would have happened in the end that in the meantime, Turkey, which is receiving the most modern Russian military equipment on favorable terms, will be increasingly arming Ukraine, which is not at all friendly to Russia.

Comments

[GKS 2111]

"While Vladimir Putin and Recep Erdogan are hand in hand launching new gas pipelines and deciding the fate of Libya at various international conferences, Ankara" quietly "continues to develop cooperation in the military-technical field with such a rather dubious partner from Moscow's point of view as Ukraine."

“What are you over there?” Do you serve both ours and yours? Who will give more? Oh you!
M. Sholokhov, Quiet Don.

[Sky strike fighter]

Are we not alike in this regard? We are friends with Israel and Iran. Why should Turkey not be friends with Russia and Ukraine at the same time for our own benefit? Turkey needs engines from the strategic X-55s, the production of which was in its own right time is organized in Ukraine, and from us gas and cooperation in Syria and Libya. Multi-vector.

[Terenin]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Are we not alike in this regard? We are friends with Israel and Iran. Why not have Turkey be friends with Russia and Ukraine at the same time for our own benefit?

Yes, this is how international relations are built. The more closely you are friends with the “opponent's” neighbor, the more you can influence his policy, without prejudice to direct contacts.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Are we not alike in this regard? We are friends with Israel and Iran. Why not have Turkey be friends with Russia and Ukraine at the same time for our own benefit?

Turkey in the article reminded the Chinese. For their own benefit, they are ready to put up with anyone and buy high-quality equipment and technologies, especially from “hungry” Ukraine, which was “dumped and abandoned.” But what should Ukraine do? She is like that dragonfly - "I spent a red summer, didn't have time to look back ...", but "I always want to eat." So he rushes to be friends and trade with everyone who has a wallet.

[TermNachTer]

Ukrainian UAV engines are not exclusive, you can buy in another place. But about cruise missiles - this is strong. Which design bureau and which factory in Banderland are designing and producing CR? Soviet remnants are sold, but there are also technologies of the last century. So, this is a set of good wishes and nothing more.

[Kleber]

Quote: TermNachTER

Soviet remnants are sold, but there are also technologies of the last century.

Turkey is not always technologically developed. The technology of the last century is still an unexplored segment for them.

[Sky strike fighter]

Which design bureau and which factory in Banderland are designing and producing CR?

The design bureaus are located on the territory of the Russian Federation, but the serial production of the R-95-300 engine was started back in the USSR in Zaporozhye in Ukraine. The engine was produced in a large series - in some years the volume of production reached 1500 units. R-95-300 were used on the Kh-55 KR and on the Kh-55SM. Before 2014, the Ukrainian production association Motor Sich produced the R-95-300 engines, a variant of which, the R-95TM, for example, was used by the TRV corporation on X-35 missiles.

but there are technologies of the last century.

Based on these technologies of the Soviet KR X-55, Iran created its serial production of KR Soum.

[TermNachTer]

Now also produced, sometimes in small batches. But the engine is not yet the Kyrgyz Republic, there is still much that is needed.

[Sky strike fighter]

But the engine is not yet the Kyrgyz Republic, there is still much that is needed.

SOM KR are equipped with an inertial / GPS navigation system, as well as a terrain reference navigation system TRN (Terrain Reference Navigation).

In addition, SOM-B1 and SOM-B2 are equipped with an infrared seeker, an automatic target capture system, and an electron-optical correlation subsystem IBN (Image Based Navigation).

[Oquzyurd]

The Turks have long completed testing turbojet engines for cruise missiles. It is interesting that foreign analogues of such engines can withstand a full working load for 15-30 minutes. The Turks in the tests exploded 5 engines, but in the end achieved incredible results. The engine can withstand a full load up to 5 hours .Dvigla weighs 50 kg, pushing force 3200 N https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYEedu77Gd4

[Sky strike fighter]

Turkey can help the rest. They have already created their tactical CRs. Now they are trying to create KR analogs of Caliber / Tomahavkov. For this they need engines from the X-55, which at one time were mass-produced in Ukraine.

KR SOM-A and SOM-B1 are equipped with a 230-kg high-explosive warhead, and SOM-B2 - a tandem penetrating warhead of the same mass. The length of the SOM-B2 is 4 m, the total mass of the rocket is about 1300 pounds (591 kg), the range of destruction of targets is 250 km.

https://vpk.name/news/323265_turciya_provela_ispytaniya_aviacionnoi_krylatoi_rakety_som-b2_s_protivobunkernoi_bch.html

[210ox]

That's it. What "eh, you!" And that's all. And it should have pressed.

[svp67]

In particular, the outcome of this visit will be the supply by the Ukrainian manufacturer Ivchenko-Progress to the Turkish armed forces from 2021 to 2030 of AI-450 turboprop engines to the Akinci operational-strategic UAV and modernized AI-25 turbojet to some “promising unmanned fighter” . Moreover, the company plans to export to Turkey more than 500 engines for cruise missiles in the amount of $ 600 million.

And here, as the "new owners" from China decide, so it will be ..

[solzh]

Quote: svp67

And here, as the "new owners" from China decide, so it will be ..

I think they will not mind.

[svp67]

Quote: solzh

I think they will not mind.

We will see. By invading Libyan affairs, Turkey also hurts China ... so that "let's see"

[solzh]

Here is the article https://topwar.ru/5307-chto-skryvaetsya-za-mirotvorcheskimi-shagami-kitaya-v-livii.html it is true from 2011, but nonetheless. The article says:

The Minister of Foreign Affairs of China has lavished praise on the National Transitional Council, which has become Libya’s main political force, calling it "an important partner in the dialogue."

But Turkey helps again the Transitional Government, thereby not affecting the interests of China, but rather, rather contributing to them, to some extent.
But, you are right to look, to see what and how everything will happen ...

[donavi49]

China is waiting for the winner. And Haftar is not very interesting to him, since he has pledged everything to the UAE Bank + to the Saudis, Egyptians, French, and probably Russia also expects some thanks.

The PNS, on the other hand, is mainly looked after by Turkey and a little by Italy (and then cooperation is more likely in exchange for stopping the flow of refugees + phantom pains in Libya). Other players for the PNS are not serious precisely in the matter of dividends (Algeria, Tunisia, the UN - they support the PNS in words and will receive thanks in words).

China is easier to buy up the PNS after the victory or partition of a country with sufficient territory under the PNS.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: svp67

By invading Libyan affairs, Turkey also hurts China ... so that "let's see"

Libya for China is just a market, investment or weapons-investment .... But there everything is so ghostly that the most clean method will be a complete wash. Auf.)

[Avior]

With the new owners is not so simple. They seem to have been hooked up to at least some Spock. At any time, the problem of "legitimacy of sale" may arise. Ukraine itself against China would not have decided on this, but, as you know, there is another interested party in the matter
In addition, Ivchenko-Progress and Motor Sich are two different enterprises

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Avior

In addition, Ivchenko-Progress and Motor Sich are two different enterprises
Reply

It is curious that this is one country.

[svp67]

Quote: Avior

In addition, Ivchenko-Progress and Motor Sich are two different enterprises

Yeah, one designs, the other produces ...

[Avior]

Progress has its own production

[TermNachTer]

There is a small production, but not a full cycle. That which they themselves cannot order on the "Motor". Although now things are shitty for both those and others. A big cut is coming at Progress.

[Avior]

About Motor this is periodically said
In practice, some are reduced, others are recruited

[TermNachTer]

In addition to three contractions, the "motor" scatters by itself. This is not talk, this is a harsh reality. Mainly pensioners and pioneers remain, there is almost no middle ground.

[Avior]

There is no middle because of a certain failure. But there are people there, there are those with whom I worked back in Soviet times, there are young people, and many. There is also an average age, but I won’t argue about its Number, I can’t say this.
And as for the "scatter", I think exaggerating.
I know that Boguslaev is trying to deal with helicopters, and he opened a helicopter retraining center with a training complex.

[TermNachTer]

He is engaged, but this is not from a good life, but one of the ways to survive. And not the only one. Two helicopters returned from Indonesia to extinguish fires. The plant produces motoblocks, separators, blowtorches, meat grinders, prostheses - anything to earn money at least somehow.

[Avior]

Consumer goods were produced back in my Soviet time, And at Progress we developed something like a chainsaw in the old days, now it’s clear that we expanded into consumer goods, there will never be Soviet engine production, but this is not only about Motor, in Russia the same problem
But training complexes are completely from scratch, big investments. And helicopter production is also being established from scratch, new avionics, etc., there was nothing like this
It’s hardly the same thing as producing meat grinders

[TermNachTer]

Under the Union, consumer goods were produced in auxiliary production, behind the Moscow-Simferopol highway, according to the order from Moscow. And now, in order to survive, the main shops are loading. In the assembly shop - No. 31, parts for soldering lamps are assembled. In general, the prospects are not bright. I don’t know how much the plant has to breathe.

[Holgerton]

You are confusing the private Motor Sich and the state-owned Ivchenko-Progress, almost all engines and their modifications were developed by Ivchenko-Progress, and Motor Sich itself was mainly engaged in batch production, hence, apparently, it was decided to sell to the Chinese "Motor Sich" with the transfer of 25% under the control of "Ivchenko-Progress" for the presence of a serial site, but here it will go further.
And given that Motor Sich is not mentioned in the news at all, and it is about cooperation between the Turks and Ivchenko-Progress, then it will produce the engines, since there is the production of all power plants that are produced by Motor Sich and plus the very new engines for the KR, "unmanned fighters" and UAVs, which Motor Sich produced only in experimental batches, or did not produce at all.

[Sky strike fighter]

production of all power plants that are produced by Motor Sich and plus those new engines for the KR

New engines for the KR? Maybe all the same old Soviet engines for the new Turkish KR? In Ukraine, engines for the X-55 were mass-produced, but they were not developed.

When developing the Kh-55 cruise missile, two different engines were created for the missile - the TRDD-50 of the Omsk MKB and the R-95-300 MNPO Soyuz. By the decision of the chief designer of the Kh-55 KR Igor Seleznev, the choice was made in favor of the R-95-300 engine. The chief designer of the engine is Oleg Favorsky. Serial production of the engine was launched in Zaporozhye, Ukraine. The engine was produced in a large series - in some years the volume of production reached 1500 units. R-95-300 were used on the Kh-55 KR and on the Kh-55SM. The engine was also used by the Novator design bureau on its naval missiles. After the collapse of the USSR (let me remind you - this happened in 1991), Russian President Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin set the task of import substitution for engines for strategic cruise missiles. Then, at the Rybinsk Engine-Building Plant, the development of serial production of the Omsk-developed TRDD-50 engines began. At the moment, the import substitution program has been successfully completed and only Russian-made engines are used on strategic cruise missiles.

http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-753.html

[tihonmarine]

Quote: svp67

And here, as the "new owners" from China decide, so it will be ..

Most likely it will.

[Sky strike fighter]

You can always create a conditional LLC Horn and Hooves under the supervision of the SBU, where the state will have 100% and there will suddenly be a production of engines for the Kyrgyz Republic. In Ukraine, you can always rewrite the law for yourself, look at the history of miracles in the field of Ukrainian GTS legislation. Especially if the United States and the EU will help fight off China. The other is worrying. What if the example of Great Britain and France, which jointly developed the Kyrgyz Republic Scalp / Storm Shadow, is followed by Turkey and Ukraine? Turkey will share guidance systems, Ukraine engines, and as a result both of them will have TFR, because the INF Treaty does not work anymore, and the new one I’m not going to sign it. They will tell everyone it is possible, but we can’t? And we somehow got too carried away by the partnership and look at the growing threat for us through our fingers.

[KCA]

These missiles fall not under the INF Treaty, which concerned only the USSR (Russia) and the United States, but under the treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons and rocket technologies, and indeed any missiles with a range of over 300 km, the hegemon can make an atom for Ukraine.

[Sky strike fighter]

hegemon can make atat Ukraine.

Or to turn a blind eye to this and be over the battle, as it used to be in the conflict between Iraq and Iran, when the United States supported the side that was beginning to lose the war. The USA is interested in the system of balances and checks that they need to manage the situation behind the scenes. We need those who want to restrain us and preferably at their own expense. But the INF Treaty cannot be returned, and it is not needed, since it was essentially only Russia and the USA that respected it. What does nuclear weapon have to do with it?

and indeed any missiles with a range of over 300km

Fars. Missile technologies are widely spread and this can not be stopped. There is a kind of chain reaction in the field of the spread of missile technologies.

[KCA]

Between the DPRK and Iran it may very well be, but I don’t think that the United States would not mind if Turkey had an ALCM with a range of 2500 km, and they could influence Ukraine without even straining

[Avior]

Both Turkey and Ukraine enter the missile technology control regime and can develop and produce missiles with a range of more than 300 km

[solzh]

It would have happened in the end that in the meantime, Turkey, which is receiving the most modern Russian military equipment on favorable terms, will be increasingly arming Ukraine, which is not at all friendly to Russia.

In the end, it will. Turkey is not a friend to us and has never been a friend, especially since today's President Erdogan is increasingly trying to resemble the Sultan and is trying to restore the Ottoman Empire through political influence in the Middle East through wars.

[Thunderbolt]

The Turks will be happy to arm Ukraine.
1. Why not a member of NATO to strengthen an ally in the region.
2. Why not strengthen the ally in the sea-Crimean direction or in another. the principle says --- do not sell if it can threaten yourself. Therefore, sometimes, but not always, TTX is cut. In this practical sense, TTX is more profitable on the contrary to increase. As for T. and for U.

[knn54]

Turkey is interested in the Soviet legacy of Ukraine.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: knn54

Turkey is interested in the Soviet legacy of Ukraine.

I’ll expand your thought --- NATO is interested in the Soviet legacy. In Middle Asia, there is no United States to clear up, because. the region is saturated with Chinese invest and the Taliban by force. The same fairy-tale Turkmenistan is not touched, because In this case, the PRC will respond in a mirrored manner. But two Russian bridgeheads in Europe --- Transnistria and Kaliningrad are trying to play for their own benefit. They could have included Ukraine in the list of victories, but as long as New Russia is in place, they could go uninvited tactically, although the Moscow government is strategically inconsequential blew out purely to Washington ---- Kiev rushing at full speed to NATO, and Syria can not be exchanged for New Russia.
Moreover, the positions of Sweden and Finland (especially) in the field of conducting exercises and military blocking were considered strictly Soviet legacy. These two countries directly target territorial acquisitions by means of exclusion from the RSFSR in its new formidable guise. RF, missiles froze in the launcher, but this is strategic security, and it sometimes consists of non-binding / nuclear weapons and treaties / minor territorial conflicts escalating into wars.
They do not sleep on the Far East and always show the teeth of China and the island state in East Asia Nippon Koku. In the so-called C., and for us, Middle Asia, the Chinese are launching processes that are very dangerous in the long run for us. Traffic to Europe, markets and a buffer for their own security ---- for the sake of such tasks, empires were created and collapsed. Therefore, China in Middle Asia will not be easy to ignore Russian interests in every way. It will catalyze anti-Russian politics in the region. Having bent under Chinese economic power, the former Central Asian SSR can become acceptors of anti-Russian politics in the region. And this is very important. In importance with Sweden and Finland, it is 50/50 in strategic priority.

[Ham]

the Turks simply pull Soviet developments and military technologies from the Sumerians ... if the sale of military secrets of the USSR to the Turks can be called "cooperation" then yes - they cooperate ...
But as for me, an ordinary Sumerian driban, the sale of everything else can be sold

[Cat]

The bottom line is that Turkey is pulling technology (more precisely, the remnants of the Soviet era) and compiling a solid one from the West with the same from Eastern Europe. What say the right policy

[Tneburashka]

Progress is a separate office, Motor Sich produces engines for the development of Progress, even visually you might think that this is one plant, but this is not so, they even have different passage

[Cat]

I am neither a strategist nor a politician. But I would very much like our neighbors (far and near) to first ask themselves before any actions: "What if Russia will be against it?"

[Cat]

And then (C) will be asked "whose Crimea?":
- Ukrainians: "ours!"
- Turks: "ours!"
- RF: "the issue requires international discussion"

[Cat]

RF: "the issue requires international discussion"

A bit wrong. "What can you do?"

[ANB]

- Ukrainians: "ours!"
- Turks: "ours!"

Well then, they will have to somehow resolve this dispute.
And Crimea will stay in the Russian Federation so far. In storage, so to speak.
Well, then it will be possible to remind once again that he is Russian. And they will remain.

[Naval]

Turks need technologies as much as air, and where they can be obtained, those are "friends" for them

[Thrifty]

This love is until the first kidnyk, as soon as ukroin receives money and delays the supply of finished products, the Turks first slam a frantic penalty and then terminate the contract in case of a relapse from Ukraine.

[mag nit]

There will be a squeal again, about a stab in the back.

[Guards turn]

Turkish Bayraktar TB2 unmanned aerial vehicle destroyed in Libya. He was shot down by field marshal Khalifa Haftar’s army.

Photos of the wreckage appeared on Twitter. The UAV, apparently, belongs to the Government of National Unity, writes Rossiyskaya Gazeta. It is known that Haftar’s troops protect the territory of the Tula Pantsir-C1 air defense missile systems that were delivered to them from the UAE. However, it cannot be reliably asserted that it was with these weapons that a drone was shot down.


Last week, a number of sources published footage from Tripoli, which depicts the deployment of American Hawk air defense launchers and Turkish anti-aircraft guns Korkut.

Strengthening air defense on both sides is caused by an increase in the use of shock drones.

[Dart2027]

It would have happened in the end that in the meantime, Turkey, which is receiving the most modern Russian military equipment on favorable terms, will be increasingly arming Ukraine, which is not at all friendly to Russia.

But why? Not if Ukraine could pay for the purchase of weapons, then it could be, but there is nothing to pay it, and Turkey will give nothing to it for nothing.

[Chaldon48]

I'm afraid this "cooperation" will go sideways for Russia.

[Karen]

Jabotinsky rejoices in the next world ... After all, when they went to the Ottomans to explain that the Kipchaks and Ottomans were of the same blood ... the Ottomans did not want to accept poor relatives ... The Jabotins' dream came true ... It does not matter that they are still Jews they call ... The time will come, they will declare themselves Khazars ... And they will recall that even in the Soviet encyclopedias it was written such: Turkic-speaking Germanic tribes ...

[eklmn]

“... Turkey, meanwhile, will be increasingly active in arming Ukraine, which is not at all friendly to the Russian Federation.”
And who made it, Ukraine, not friendly to the Russian Federation?

[ANB]

The list will have to start with Kravchuk. There were figures before him, but then Ukraine, as a state, did not exist yet.

[cost]

eklmn: And who made it, Ukraine, not friendly to the Russian Federation?

We did it ourselves. Ali lost his memory? Forgot about the Maidan where Western leaders handed out cookies and promised lace panties in exchange for European integration? Forgot how you rode in casters and yelled "Moskalyak on Gilyak"? Forgot about the overthrow of the legitimate president. to which the same West has provided guarantees.? Forgot about the preconditioned language law that divided Ukraine? Forgot about the burning of dissent in Odessa, about the use of aviation against their own people in Donbas? About the ongoing war with the Russian population of the LPNR?

[ANB]

And most of this happened before the return of Crimea.

[Nikitich]

Yes, Turkey does not care ...
After our downed plane, Putin wiped himself off and that’s it.

[ANB]

And the pilot who shot down, it seems, sat down on the bunk. I would be careful not to offend someone who knows how to "wipe".

[Sniper]

"
It would not turn out in the end that Turkey, which receives the most modern Russian military equipment on favorable terms, will more and more actively arm Ukraine, which is not at all friendly to the Russian Federation. "

and then the author answers his own question to the readers

“By the way, serious concerns were expressed in the Turkish press at that time about how Putin would“ react ”to such gesheft and whether they would come out sideways in Turkish-Russian relations. They worried there, apparently, in vain.

disputes with himself whether the author))

[The collective farm]

As it became known, the other day a meeting of the joint Ukrainian-Turkish commission took place in the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine,

oh hold me men
We and in the Donbass SMERSH restore ..
Here you have real problems !!!
The slightest scream and movement .. Immediately from the Kalash queue .. YOU got us svidomye..We will be in the USA, shouted, immediately a shot (this is for Bandera))) .. Well, we will filter others ..

[Nikitich]

Putin will say `` we have played Novorossia and that's enough '' and aam will not be laughing

[Kronos]

Dude recently killed Green and nothing as usual

[xomaNN]

Turkey is in many respects a self-sufficient country, and therefore it is naive to expect that it will follow in everything in the wake of Russia. If already "slave" Belarus is happy for Ukraine and at the same time "lie down" under Russia ?! Where they feel the benefit, there they are.
----
So the allies of Russia are only the Army and Navy!

[Avior]

Many wars without allies remember?
And then the Crimean and Russian-Japanese for some reason are remembered

[Kronos]

it can be remembered the Livonian war there, too, were left without allies

[Moon]

Quote: Avior

And then the Crimean and Russian-Japanese for some reason are remembered

Well, formally counted on Prussia (in the first) and in France (second)
But the European policy of counterweights + a stronger USA have changed everything
Actually, one could count on Koreans with the loyal and Chinese, but RI did everything to reject their loyalty.
This is an eternal problem ... lack of soft power.

[Prisoner]

Where are we looking? Waiting for when flames? This is already becoming a trend. They do not pay attention to the smoldering ember, but how they begin to fuss and fuss, and moreover, it is already useless. Verily, until the thunder strikes, the man will not cross himself.

[The collective farm]

Outskirts, this is Bandera ... SMERSH, do this ..
We know all the synchronies ... Maybe, how can Israel pass over .. From the western direction?
Why not..? Donbass shell bastards
Strike ..

[Nikitich]

Your collective farm wet dreams have no limits ...
Dream about the fate of Transnistria, more does not shine

[Finn]

How will Ukrainians sell engines without aluminum blades that cannot melt more than 500 degrees? You can of course develop your own metallurgy and after 30 years it will turn out. They from Russia received all the basic.

[Avior]

Blades made of titanium
In Zaporozhye, accurate complex shaped casting of titanium was a long time ago, back in Soviet times

[Sergey Averchenkov]

Let them gain, Ukrainians and Turks will betray - they have such a breed.

[Old26]

Quote: KCA

These missiles fall not under the INF Treaty, which concerned only the USSR (Russia) and the United States, but under the treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons and rocket technologies, and indeed any missiles with a range of over 300 km, the hegemon can make an atom for Ukraine.

Now both Turkey and Ukraine can cooperate in the creation of missiles with a range of more than 300 km and warheads of more than 500 kg. The only condition is not to export.

[Avior]

You are absolutely right
Turkey enters missile technology control regime since 1997, Ukraine since 1998
Between themselves can, on the side to sell no.

[Old26]

Quote: Avior

Turkey enters missile technology control regime since 1997, Ukraine since 1998
Between themselves can, on the side to sell no.

Sergei! Let's put it a little differently. All countries of the world must comply with these agreements on missile technology control, but Ukraine, Turkey and 31 other countries, including Russia and India, are members of the so-called. Wassenaar Accords. A sort of internal "get-together".
That, by the way, is why the Brahmos is being tested now (and not without our help) with a flight range of 800 km. We can do this with India. But we can no longer sell such versions of Onyx to the same Vietnam or China, because they are not members of this agreement

[nikvic46]

Even to me, who are not dedicated to the realities of military technology, UAVs are a formidable weapon. Judge for yourself. Even drones in large numbers can disrupt the start of any military operation. I think this issue should be taken much more seriously.