Military Review

What to expect after the theses on the “curvature and mediocrity” of Iranian anti-aircraft gunners

200

Iran’s recognition of striking a Ukrainian airliner in the area of ​​Tehran’s international airport posed perhaps more questions than answered.


If we are guided exclusively by dry facts (without considering a whole series of oddities and nuances), then the following picture emerges: the level of qualification of Iranian air defense calculations is not even in doubt, it is shocking.

No less doubt is the level of technical organization of the work of the air defense and missile defense units. After all, it was stated that the operator did not have the opportunity to get in touch (although before this strange and tragic incident, it seems, there were no problems with communication), and therefore he made the decision almost alone. And taking into account the fact that we are not talking about some kind of peripheral object, but about the metropolitan region of the country, whose cover, by definition, should be close to the best. In such a situation, it turns out that it’s scary to imagine what level experts manage air defense systems “far” from Iran’s strategic facilities, even if they are not able to distinguish airliner that just took off from a cruise missile in the area of ​​Tehran’s international airport.

It seems that behind these conclusions about the “curvature and mediocrity” of Iranian anti-aircraft gunners, one of the “friends of Iran” (who could it be ...) is about to utter: you just imagine what would happen if Iran at the moment there was a “nuclear button” at the disposal - some “major at the console” could say that he “lost contact with the command post” and press, so as not to confuse the IRGC ... Accordingly, this message will be more emphasized and phrase: Everything needs to be done to prevent Iran from building its nuclear weapon, and in general - to strangle Iran with sanctions, to deprive even a civilian nuclear program, to cut off oil exports - until the "Ayatollah regime" collapses.

At the same time, an information attack on Russia is to be expected with the words: “Russian arms exports bring chaos and death.” Something similar has already begun Turchinov.

So, the same “Thor” is already trying to be recorded in an “offensive” weapon, which means that soon something similar can be expected about more advanced Russian air defense systems - the S-300 (Iran has it) and the S-400 (Iran and Iraq express a desire to acquire these complexes). The message could be this: if the Iranian military is so poorly trained that it launches missiles on passenger aircraft, then Russia should be limited in arms sales not only to Iran, but also to other representatives of the “camp of opponents of the democratic world.” As a result - another attempt to strike at the Russian military-industrial complex through the argument that "such countries can not sell any serious weapons." Well, then - “in a united rush”, “resolution at the UN” and everyone will forget how it all began and who even in Europe managed to come up with missile defense systems under shouts about the incredible Iranian threat.
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  1. WILL
    WILL 12 January 2020 17: 47
    +24
    Moreover, they will try to write down the “offensive” ones — namely, the Russian air defense systems.
    The systems of the rest of the World - in Protecting Democracy!
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 12 January 2020 18: 02
      +12
      Quote: ANIMAL
      Moreover, they will try to write down the “offensive” ones — namely, the Russian air defense systems.

      Buyers of weapons do not rely on fake opinions of the magazine, as they are professionals who are well versed in weapons, because they buy it not for a penny and are required to be professionals. These journalistic vysery are aimed exclusively at info war with Iran. Do not forget, the courtyard is not the 50s of the last century. Now the media is not only delivering information in newspapers and by mail. Control and censorship can’t cope and the truth pops up one way or another.
      The question here is how effective Western propaganda is in relation to the world community today.
      1. divanka2021
        divanka2021 12 January 2020 18: 13
        +9
        for a long time I have been reading foreign media as such there is not much propoganda, as they write for their own, basically one-sided approaches from their bell tower, but this is actually full of topwar
        1. Abbot
          Abbot 12 January 2020 19: 19
          0
          So, the same "Thor" is already trying to write in the "offensive" weapons

          For me, we need to wait for the results of the investigation. It is not clear what they brought down. The wreckage of a Tor air defense missile system at the crash site of an airliner? How is this possible if the plane, after being hit, still planned for a considerable distance for some time. I wonder what the air-gunners will say.
          1. Mar.Tirah
            Mar.Tirah 12 January 2020 19: 51
            +9
            Quote: Abbot
            It’s interesting what the airmen will say.

            What do you want to hear? In the face of partisanship, there seems to be no talk of a layered air defense system. There were no teams from a higher command post, and if there was, it means the command post is the same. There are so-called control groups on any more or less significant CP flights with aircraft. With the exact dates of departures, arrivals, courses both in altitude and speed, flight numbers and characteristics. Surely this board was also registered in the control group, and it was led, why they slapped, a mystery to me? Maybe it was not planned, maybe it was not on its course, maybe it was carrying something that should not have gone abroad. Is there zero information, so I don’t know what happened? Of course, I feel sorry for people, especially the Slav brothers.
            1. Abbot
              Abbot 12 January 2020 20: 13
              -2
              Quote: Mar. Tira
              What do you want to hear? Partisanism is on the face, apparently there is no question of a layered air defense system.

              Thank. Apparently, Iran does not have a single integrated system of air defense and airspace control. But I wanted to ask about something else - the wreckage of missiles at the crash site of the airliner. In terms of ballistics, so to speak.
              1. Jager
                Jager 12 January 2020 21: 56
                +2
                The absence of a unified air defense system is essentially the wildest mess in the army at the level of someone in Zimbabwe.
                Although there were cases that valiant warriors accidentally shot down liners. But damn it, not at the international airport!
            2. Rusticolus
              Rusticolus 12 January 2020 20: 25
              +6
              And how do you like the option of such an agreement?
              For the murder of the general, the Iranians are allowed to lightly bang on empty bases for a "response" visible to everyone, and those who agreed are also allowed to bang all the direct executors and their assistants. Which the CIA promised manna from heaven as soon as they were evacuated from Iran. Iran apologizes for those who really happened to be on that flight, the State Department does not give the go-ahead to the controlled media to inflate the hype, the CIA gets rid of the waste material. And in general, everyone is happy and everyone has his own way. Well, the officer who made the single-handed decision to shoot down resigns and is lost, with or without those received under a quiet order and an unscheduled pension.
              However, Iran could do something like that itself without the consent of the other side. But the suspiciously quiet reaction of the "world media" is somehow embarrassing. Enough time has passed. Iran admitted everything. Hype should already be up to heaven. And here even Ukraine is not at all. Frostbitten turchynov doesn't count.
              1. gmb
                gmb 12 January 2020 20: 35
                +4
                Would you write novels
              2. SSR
                SSR 12 January 2020 21: 28
                +1
                Quote: Rusticolus
                And how do you like the option of such an agreement?

                Then the experts immediately chew)))
                Quote: gmb
                Would you write novels

                Interestingly, what can I recommend gmb? )))
                Become a Falkinger?)))
                1. Crimean partisan 1974
                  Crimean partisan 1974 13 January 2020 07: 55
                  +1
                  Interestingly, what can I recommend gmb? )))
                  Become a von Falkinger?) ........ take it higher, Tom Clancy himself would envy (earth to him or dust to ashes), add the technical side and then the tech-thriller
            3. The comment was deleted.
      2. Shurik70
        Shurik70 12 January 2020 18: 19
        +2
        Tell about the curvature of Iranian air defense to those Americans whose Iranians stole a secret drone.
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 13 January 2020 07: 18
          -2
          But these crooked chitropopiks stole Avtobaz from us 10-15 years ago and even then they planted the Predator (I'm not sure) in order to pass it on to us ...
          Oh these Persians! This is not some kind of boredom for you ...
      3. Eug
        Eug 12 January 2020 18: 23
        0
        Everyone understands that it is not the weapon that kills, but the hands in which it is located. And no matter how cynical it sounds, Thor confirmed his effectiveness, though without interference, but nonetheless.
      4. Dude
        Dude 12 January 2020 20: 41
        +6
        Quote: NEXUS
        Quote: ANIMAL
        Moreover, they will try to write down the “offensive” ones — namely, the Russian air defense systems.

        Buyers of weapons do not rely on fake opinions of the magazine, as they are professionals who are well versed in weapons, because they buy it not for a penny and are required to be professionals. These journalistic vysery are aimed exclusively at info war with Iran. Do not forget, the courtyard is not the 50s of the last century. Now the media is not only delivering information in newspapers and by mail. Control and censorship can’t cope and the truth pops up one way or another.
        The question here is how effective Western propaganda is in relation to the world community today.

        Dear NEXUS, but I agree with a colleague in the forum WROUGHT.
        Wangjuyu: soon the stuffing will begin, in various mass media, from Twitter to the Washington Post, the opinion that such a type of weapon as an air defense system is very dangerous, and it would be nice to put its sales under international control. At the same time, the theme of the downing of civilian airliners by rockets will be pedaled. namely Russian production. Considering that Russia is a well-known world leader in the production of air defense systems, double profit will be obtained - depriving our country of profits from the sale of air defense / missile defense systems, and spinning up another round of demonization of Russia. Actually, this stuffing has already begun - from the publications of Pastor Turchinov, and to the statements of users in various forums - from foreign ones, to native VO.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 12 January 2020 20: 56
          -1
          Quote: Dude
          Wangyu: soon the first throw-in will begin, in various media, from Twitter to the Washington Post, the opinion that such a type of weapon as an air defense system is very dangerous,

          Washington can start and say anything there. The facts are such that the United States has not made a single country on the globe, neither great nor rich, free. I repeat NONE!
          Heads of state such as China, Cuba, Iran, etc. have already begun to see clearly that nothing good can come from that side of the ocean. And this insight goes on the world ...
          And there are plenty of examples of the democratization of countries and the "liberation" of the US army from the regimes of these countries. Nobody wants to fight. And therefore all this hysteria is being whipped up. Trump will not take a machine gun and sit in a trench and not Merkel ...
          The Anglo-Saxons do not want to concede. Now not only the interests of the Russian Federation and the USA have clashed ... there is a war of civilizations. She did not stop either after the First World War or after the Second. There is no concept of the Cold War in nature. This is idiocy, because either war or peace. Point.
          As for the stuffing, info war ... all this will be and even more. Another question is which is better, to listen to the Anglo-Saxons and fall under the rink of their policies, like Libya, Iraq, or to protect yourself from forced democratization and live peacefully with your own head. Already, many states have asked themselves this question.
          1. Dude
            Dude 12 January 2020 21: 02
            +2
            ... there is a war of civilizations. She did not stop either after the First World War or after the Second.
            It would be foolish to argue with that. And it did not start yesterday. And we were not the initiators of this war. But this is a global issue, I spoke about a particular case, about the current moment. You absolutely correctly noted:
            -that is better, listen to the Anglo-Saxons and fall under the rink of their policies, like Libya, Iraq, or to protect yourself from forced democratization and live peacefully with your own head. Already, many states have asked themselves this question.
            - that is why there was vulgar opposition from our "partners".
          2. Oleg Zorin
            Oleg Zorin 12 January 2020 21: 50
            -3
            You really are a funny character. The United States does not pretend to be Santa Claus to make people rich and happy. Everyone forges his own happiness. Guided primarily by common sense.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 12 January 2020 22: 03
              +2
              Quote: Oleg Zorin
              The United States does not claim to be Santa Claus,

              Of course pretend. They set the standard for democracy and freedom, which is projected throughout the world.
              Quote: Oleg Zorin
              Everyone forges his own happiness. Guided primarily by common sense.

              No need, the young man to confuse common sense, with the elementary desire of planetary omnipotence.
              You are a very touching character. Amused, thanks.
              1. Oleg Zorin
                Oleg Zorin 14 January 2020 02: 59
                0
                Boy, you don’t have to be rude. I'm 54, so it's not a young man for a long time. And you are a really funny character. Look in the mirror, it is there that you can see the main culprit of human failure.
            2. hydrox
              hydrox 13 January 2020 07: 25
              -1
              Common sense and geopolitical state terrorism - are you talking about whom and what?
              It is precisely against the terrorism of the States that the countries that still want to protect their sovereignty from the American garbage must be protected today.
              1. Oleg Zorin
                Oleg Zorin 14 January 2020 03: 11
                0
                No slogans needed. Recognize that the States are the only power that can force others to obey their laws. They killed General Suleymani by law. BY OWN law. And no one can do anything about it. The trash, as you deigned to express it, is not capable of this. Learn to respect powerful enemies.
                1. hydrox
                  hydrox 14 January 2020 06: 34
                  -1
                  Strong enemies do not shoot around the corner, but the vile - yes, this is their favorite position.
                  And then, in a strange monastery, do not stick a dirty snout with your own law.
          3. Jager
            Jager 12 January 2020 22: 01
            0
            Excuse me, does it mean that the Union operates, and not the oligarchic gas station in Europe?
            For 30 years it will not "see clearly" in any way. Well, fullness, sir.
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 13 January 2020 07: 31
              -1
              Well, right, column; Yes, it’s oligarchic - and it’s clear that the operator is also not an academician and does not even have economic knowledge at the technical school level ... So what, what is a technical school?
              But your man for half the inhabitants of the Forbes directory (and there has long been time to carry out pest control ... laughing)
          4. Alex Justice
            Alex Justice 13 January 2020 07: 38
            0
            Washington can start and say anything there. The facts are such that the United States has not made a single country on the globe, neither great nor rich, free. I repeat NONE!

            Didn't hear about Marshall's plan? All of Europe quickly recovered thanks to this plan.
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 14 January 2020 07: 10
              -2
              Those who changed their pants to trousers do not represent such nonsense to society: Europe got everything according to Marshall’s plan ONLY BECAUSE:
              1. Europe was the zone affected by Hitler.
              2. Germany was a territory affected by hostilities and reparations.
              3. All Yuropka was a zone of continuous occupation and its comfort for the occupants had to be restored.
              4. Yuropka db become a showcase for the countries of the eastern bloc.
              Here are the causes and consequences of the Marshall Plan.
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 14 January 2020 14: 01
                0
                By the way, the United States was a country that fabulously profited from military supplies to both Hitler and Russia, that they could afford to put out a small share to charity (without forgetting to regularly remove bank interest from restoration loans).
              2. Alex Justice
                Alex Justice 16 January 2020 16: 34
                0
                Stalin rejected this proposed plan for the USSR.
                1. hydrox
                  hydrox 18 January 2020 10: 23
                  0
                  Yes, he rejected it as the occupying and annihilating sovereignty of Russia, which Putin had just restored for the first time in 30 years.
        2. Glory1974
          Glory1974 13 January 2020 10: 01
          0
          in various media, from Twitter to the Washington Post, opinions that such a type of weapon as an air defense system are very dangerous, and it would be nice to put its sales under international control. At the same time, the theme of the downing of civilian airliners by Russian-made missiles will be pedaled.

          You are probably right. The wave has already gone. Apart from Turchinov, Ekho Moskvy published an interview with someone named Yabloko, who denounces Russian air defense systems in this manner.
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 14 January 2020 07: 13
            -1
            Dogs bark - well, let them ...
            And from the 5th column no one smart already expects anything clever ... enough of what they have done with Soviet industry.
    2. gurzuf
      gurzuf 12 January 2020 18: 21
      0
      Pindy immediately came to mind ... American air defenses when they shot down an Iranian passenger airliner with people on board.
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 12 January 2020 18: 58
        -11
        Quote: gurzuf
        Pindy immediately came to mind ... American air defenses when they shot down an Iranian passenger airliner with people on board.

        Or when Syrian air defense shot down our IL-20
        1. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 12 January 2020 20: 11
          +2
          It was a provocation or, indeed, a fatal accident, multiplied by carelessness, but it must be admitted that a huge "minus" looms against Iran! And, most likely, sanctions and political pressure will follow.
          A weapon ... It can be of any origin. The main thing is, in whose hands it turned out and how it was used ....
          1. Shurik70
            Shurik70 12 January 2020 20: 44
            -2
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            a tremendous "minus" looms against Iran! And, most likely, sanctions and political pressure will follow.

            Sanctions? Pressure? AGAINST IRAN ?? !!
            Yes, Iran has been living under sanctions for more than one generation.
            And world hegemons are putting pressure on him with all their might.
            They come to guano, but they cannot crush them.
            1. indy424
              indy424 13 January 2020 00: 05
              0
              and how many generations does Iran live under sanctions? just wondering
              1. Shurik70
                Shurik70 13 January 2020 07: 15
                0
                Quote: indy424
                and how many generations does Iran live under sanctions? just wondering

                The beginning is a few years after the creation of Israel.
                The so-called "British boycott", when the West decided to overthrow the power in Iran.
                Since then, there has been an ongoing economic war against Iran.
          2. hydrox
            hydrox 13 January 2020 07: 37
            -1
            Don’t worry, any weapon in the American hands will have the most democratic - terrorist use: just remember the fate of tens of millions of North American Indians - as the story goes on, and it is CONTINUOUS - if an American breathes the smell of blood, he will ALWAYS kill!
      2. Oleg Zorin
        Oleg Zorin 14 January 2020 03: 13
        0
        Is this thirty years ago?
    3. Prisoner
      Prisoner 12 January 2020 18: 56
      +1
      All the rest and especially the patriots are the most peaceful. They either go away, or even return home.
      1. Jager
        Jager 12 January 2020 22: 04
        +1
        It is advisable to "return home" them on a combat platoon soldier
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 13 January 2020 07: 44
          -3
          Do you want to mess with someone else's faulty junk?
          To do this, there are good brand new Sarmatians, purebred and unbreakable.
          So now let the insane terrorist Donka put the question in his flea-market under the name of the UN that "the Soviet Union needs to pull out poisonous teeth, starting with the ZSU-23-2 and so on to the eighth jaw (intergalactic) laughing
    4. Free wind
      Free wind 13 January 2020 03: 38
      -1
      Yes shut up. people died ...
      1. WILL
        WILL 13 January 2020 03: 45
        +4
        Who are you talking to?
  2. Theodore
    Theodore 12 January 2020 17: 47
    +6
    Do not expect, but draw the appropriate conclusions! And close the sky in an emergency.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 12 January 2020 18: 10
      +10
      Quote: ....
      . behind these conclusions about the “curvature and mediocrity” of Iranian anti-aircraft gunners is one of the “friends of Iran” (who could it be ...)

      No one could confuse a passenger plane with a cruise missile under any circumstances.
      Andrey Gorbachevsky, engineer, radar developer.
      Research Institute of Aviation Systems (now - GosNIIAS).
      Head of the Strategic Aviation Defense Sector
      1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich
        Vyacheslav Viktorovich 12 January 2020 18: 17
        -3
        He probably thinks that milling machines cannot confuse a rotating mill with a non-rotating one. This does not prevent them from walking without a part of their fingers.
        1. Dude
          Dude 12 January 2020 21: 13
          +4
          Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
          He probably thinks that milling machines cannot confuse a rotating mill with a non-rotating one. This does not prevent them from walking without a part of their fingers.

          A stupid and incorrect comparison. Milling cutters process parts multiple times per shift - 5 days a week, 11 months a year. Therefore, some of them "walk without part of the fingers" - the law of large numbers. The air defense operator is doing his job less often.
          1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich
            Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 January 2020 05: 21
            0
            The essence of my argument: the probability that a person will mistakenly perform an action that obviously does not have any rational basis is non-zero, in fact. Therefore, the categorical statement that it is "impossible" is false. A nonzero probability means that it perhaps.
        2. poquello
          poquello 12 January 2020 21: 57
          +6
          Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
          He probably thinks that milling machines cannot confuse a rotating mill with a non-rotating one. This does not prevent them from walking without a part of their fingers.

          Are you talking to yourself or something? hmm, how many milling people saw - everyone has fingers in place
      2. Reserve officer
        Reserve officer 12 January 2020 18: 20
        +26
        Vadim, I agree with you. I have already expressed my opinion on this issue at VO.
        It is impossible to confuse a low-flying maneuvering target with small shielding with a civilian plane flying at an altitude of more than 2 km, which goes along the well-known dedicated corridor and shines on the screens like a Christmas tree. About identification systems generally keep quiet. Even if we take into account that the Iranians were afraid of American cruise missiles and could shoot at everything that flies, it’s the same as knocking on the door at this door from everything that is in the house. Well, I don’t just believe it. The plane was shot down intentionally.
        After the assassination of an Iranian general, even more terrible news was needed that would overshadow the previous one. Which is what happened.
        So the truth about this event is still very vague. Iranians were appointed extreme, but the ears are clearly American.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 12 January 2020 18: 30
          +6
          Quote: Reserve officer
          It is impossible to confuse a low-flying maneuvering target with small shielding with a civilian plane flying at an altitude of more than 2 km, which goes along the well-known dedicated corridor and shines on the screens like a Christmas tree.

          Good evening Alexey, I agree 100%
        2. Dalmatia
          Dalmatia 12 January 2020 18: 32
          +2
          For the stock officer.
          Weighted Comment. There is something to think about.
        3. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 12 January 2020 18: 38
          +1
          Quote: Reserve officer
          The plane was shot down intentionally.
          After the assassination of an Iranian general, even more terrible news was needed that would overshadow the previous one. Which is what happened.
          So the truth about this event is still very vague. Iranians were appointed extreme, but the ears are clearly American.

          You are not alone in this understanding of what happened. Only a few high-ranking officials will know and will know the truth, but they will never tell us about it.
        4. kuz363
          kuz363 12 January 2020 18: 46
          -4
          Enough of all the troubles to blame on the Americans! It’s like in an old Soviet song - if there is no water in the tap, the Jews drank it!
          1. Jager
            Jager 12 January 2020 22: 06
            +3
            Do you think that they’re right here at all out of business?))
        5. bar
          bar 12 January 2020 20: 29
          +7
          Iranians were appointed extreme, but the ears are clearly American.

          I agree. In addition to the above, there is another muddy moment - shooting downed aircraft from the phone. Besides the fact that you had to be at the right time in the right place (it could be random) you had to get the phone in advance and aim it in the dark in the sky where the plane was in that darkness in order to take everything off in time. This could hardly be a coincidence.
          And the Iranians wisely chose the lesser of two evils. They would have been accused of falling in love, and at least they would have shown themselves in a better light than they could have been, if they had rested to the last.
          1. Dude
            Dude 12 January 2020 21: 23
            +7
            Quote: bar
            Iranians were appointed extreme, but the ears are clearly American.

            I agree. In addition to the above, there is another muddy moment - shooting downed aircraft from the phone. Besides the fact that you had to be at the right time in the right place (it could be random) you had to get the phone in advance and aim it in the dark in the sky where the plane was in that darkness in order to take everything off in time. This could hardly be a coincidence.
            And the Iranians wisely chose the lesser of two evils. They would have been accused of falling in love, and at least they would have shown themselves in a better light than they could have been, if they had rested to the last.

            I fully agree with you about the turbidity of this moment.
            I will add: one of the users of our forum, a couple of days ago, on a similar branch, absolutely correctly noticed: not only did the operator shoot, don’t understand why, it was this part of the night sky that was amazing unemotional - not a single "faqa", "Alla, yavbara", "inshaalli". In short, not a single emotional expression that a casual witness to such a catastrophe usually gives out.
          2. Oleg Zorin
            Oleg Zorin 12 January 2020 21: 55
            -8
            The wisest thing would be to deal with the internal problems of your country, and not climb everywhere in the region. Then the lesser of evils would not have to vibrate.
            1. D16
              D16 12 January 2020 22: 29
              +1
              Then the lesser of evils would not have to vibrate.

              You to whom?
              1. Oleg Zorin
                Oleg Zorin 14 January 2020 03: 15
                -1
                This is "not to whom", but "about whom". About Iran.
        6. Saxahorse
          Saxahorse 12 January 2020 21: 24
          -1
          Quote: Reserve officer
          firing at everything that flies is the same as knocking on a door at that door from everything that is in the house. Well, I don’t just believe it. The plane was shot down intentionally.

          Nonsense is complete. If the district police officer called you five minutes before and warned that a maniac with a sawed-off shotgun is rushing around your yards, you will shoot at the door without any additional questions. Its all at home.

          But the Iranian crew was still trying to contact and clarify which cruise missile they were talking about before deciding on their own when the connection strangely disappeared ..
          1. Jager
            Jager 12 January 2020 22: 11
            +1
            In this case, as soon as information about the danger to civilian vessels HERE is received and an order immediately arrives urgently to take someone where or to go to safe echelons, and the departure from airports is closed.
            Have you ever seen the mark of a civilian airliner on the radar? Compare it with the mark of such a small target as a cruise missile. Which is the size of the engine of this liner alone.
            Either a purchased officer was sitting at the console ... or there was no one from the calculation at all, but there were "completely different people."
        7. poquello
          poquello 12 January 2020 22: 08
          0
          Quote: Reserve officer
          Even if we take into account that the Iranians were afraid of American cruise missiles and could shoot at everything that flies, it’s the same as knocking on the door at this door from everything that is in the house. Well, I don’t just believe it.

          there was an interesting version at the aviation industry - the work of the rabo on Iran’s air defense systems, and Syria’s air defense systems in the case of our silt, as a result there was a misunderstanding in identifying the target with old systems
        8. D16
          D16 12 January 2020 22: 25
          +2
          Iranians appointed extreme

          I think that the actors will not go anywhere and the investigation will show what and how actually happened. Another thing is whether it will advertise its results, wait and see.
      3. gurzuf
        gurzuf 12 January 2020 18: 23
        -3
        Unless the American-recruited guardian of the Islamic Revolution sat at the air defense button. We will wait for the conclusions of the investigation.
        1. bar
          bar 12 January 2020 20: 34
          +2
          We will wait for the conclusions of the investigation.

          We will hardly wait. "Recognition is the queen of proof." The case can be written off to the archive. And the small number of people who know the truth are unlikely to tell something.
          1. Jager
            Jager 12 January 2020 22: 17
            +2
            Those who knew the truth either flew on the same side, or were already missing and / or quite by accident killed themselves with two shots to the head.
        2. indy424
          indy424 13 January 2020 00: 07
          0
          they seem to have decided that "Iran is not Iraq, it is not for sale"
  3. paul3390
    paul3390 12 January 2020 17: 50
    +13
    Well, when did the Iranian passenger fail in the same way at the same time - also like crooked and mediocre? Will we take away nuclear weapons from America? Who will start?
    1. svp67
      svp67 12 January 2020 17: 54
      +10
      Quote: paul3390
      Well, when did the Iranian passenger collapse in the same way at the same time, too, like crooked and mediocre?

      In the "crystal temple on the hill" they try not to remember this
      1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich
        Vyacheslav Viktorovich 12 January 2020 18: 10
        +4
        But they have also not yet used a randomly shot down Boeing as a political argument. The author runs ahead of the engine, putting forward weak arguments on behalf of someone else who are easy to argue with.

        Moreover, the original message ("If we are guided by exceptionally dry facts (...), then at the moment the following picture emerges: the level of qualification of Iranian air defense calculations raises no doubt, it is shocking.") - done by the author himself.
    2. Dalmatia
      Dalmatia 12 January 2020 18: 14
      -8
      Well, in this case, we must remember 1983, the Korean Boeing over Sakhalin.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 12 January 2020 18: 18
        +13
        No, there is another case. There, the airplane brazenly climbed into our zone as much as 500 km and was not going to turn off. I did not respond to signals. What to do with it was only to blame. And even that - that story is extremely muddy .. Not the fact that we failed him all the same ..
        1. Dalmatia
          Dalmatia 12 January 2020 18: 20
          -5
          I know that case, and some of the details are not from the newspapers.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 12 January 2020 20: 19
          -17
          Quote: paul3390
          No, there is another case.

          Of course different laughing
        3. Oleg Zorin
          Oleg Zorin 12 January 2020 21: 58
          -4
          Of course not us. Thank you and God, we didn’t overwhelm anyone. Damned s did it.
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak 12 January 2020 18: 24
        +11
        Quote: Dalmatia
        Well, in this case, we must remember 1983, the Korean Boeing over Sakhalin.

        Gennady Osipovich, the pilot of the Su-15, who shot down the airliner, was sure that his target was a non-civilian board. In particular, Osipovich expresses doubt that such a large aircraft as a Boeing 747 could be shot down with just two R-60 missiles, which he fired into it.

        It was later established that this aircraft NL-7442 was at the Andrews Washington airbase for three days - from August 11 to August 14, 1983.
        After this news, everything calmed down
        1. Dalmatia
          Dalmatia 12 January 2020 18: 28
          -2
          I will not enter into polemics with you because you refer to the official testimony of the pilot. But there is another, unofficial part of this story.
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 12 January 2020 18: 50
            +5
            Quote: Dalmatia
            But there is another, unofficial part of this story.

            I don’t know, I served in another part of the country and they told us that they shot down an RC scout
        2. Jager
          Jager 12 January 2020 22: 22
          0
          I have nothing to do with aviation, but tell me - if only one rocket hits, suppose, in the wing or plumage, this will cause the destruction of the entire aircraft. This is not an IL-2.
          The story is extremely muddy and in all respects the flight is clearly not a mistake for the pilots.
      3. gurzuf
        gurzuf 12 January 2020 18: 26
        +1
        Do you remember how they shot him down?
        1. Dalmatia
          Dalmatia 12 January 2020 18: 38
          -10
          Your question is incorrect and provocative.
          1. sabakina
            sabakina 12 January 2020 18: 51
            +7
            Quote: Dalmatia
            Your question is incorrect and provocative.

            And what exactly? I remember that autumn very well. And how we guys discussed this.
            1. Dalmatia
              Dalmatia 12 January 2020 19: 02
              -8
              Only one person can remember how a Boeing was shot down, this is the pilot who directly shot him down. That is why your question does not sound correctly. There are different versions of those events, and the official version of the Soviet leadership diverged significantly from the actual circumstances.
              1. Olezhek
                Olezhek 12 January 2020 19: 10
                +3
                Only one person can remember how a Boeing was shot down, this is the pilot who directly shot him down


                If it was in the 30s, then yes.
                1. Dalmatia
                  Dalmatia 12 January 2020 19: 12
                  -4
                  I understand what you mean. But my dialogue with Vyacheslav is in a slightly different vein.
              2. sabakina
                sabakina 12 January 2020 19: 12
                +4
                Firstly, this is not my question, I just pointed to it.
                Secondly, do you deny me the memory in the part 37 years ago? Sorry, my brain subcortex is categorically against it!
                1. Dalmatia
                  Dalmatia 12 January 2020 19: 26
                  -3
                  For sabakina (Vyacheslav (Russia))
                  ____________________
                  You're right. Indeed, there was confusion in the comments. Initially, my dialogue was not with you, but with gurzuf. I thought that she answered him. How it turned out that the answer went to you, I do not understand.
                  And in the second part of your question, no, I do not refuse you your memory. And I even admit that you can remember the events associated with the Korean Boeing over Sakhalin.
                  1. sabakina
                    sabakina 12 January 2020 19: 28
                    +2
                    Well, at least thanks for that.
                    1. Dalmatia
                      Dalmatia 12 January 2020 19: 33
                      0
                      For sabakina (Vyacheslav (Russia))
                      ______________________________
                      I was mistaken and admitted this, so do not give thanks))))
                2. Free wind
                  Free wind 13 January 2020 12: 57
                  -1
                  armor seems to be absent on passenger aircraft, well, a crow hitting a turbine will destroy the plane. and you are talking about rockets.
        2. svp67
          svp67 12 January 2020 18: 39
          +5
          Quote: gurzuf
          Do you remember how they shot him down?

          It's easier to say HOW MUCH, in time did it take? Rather, how many this plane was "under the gun" and how many measures were taken to force it to certain actions
          1. Dalmatia
            Dalmatia 12 January 2020 19: 05
            -7
            The pilot knew that the offender was a civilian side
            1. svp67
              svp67 12 January 2020 19: 12
              +4
              Quote: Dalmatia
              The pilot knew that the offender was a civilian side

              Are you sure of that? Is it possible to distinguish a Boeing 15 from an RC-747 at night on a Su-135?
              1. Dalmatia
                Dalmatia 12 January 2020 19: 18
                -6
                The Soviet leadership was confident in this.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 12 January 2020 19: 22
                  +7
                  Quote: Dalmatia
                  The Soviet leadership was confident in this.

                  Stop. Confident of what? And who is this Soviet leadership, you can at least a couple of names
                  1. Dalmatia
                    Dalmatia 12 January 2020 19: 41
                    -9
                    Well started .... last names, addresses, appearances, passwords))))
                    I doubt that you want to convince me of something. But you want to convict)))
                    Just what? Is my opinion on the Boeing over Sakhalin different from the official version? So I myself know this. You adhere to the official version, your right.
                    And my right to have my own opinion.
                    There will be no other answer.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 12 January 2020 20: 02
                      +4
                      Quote: Dalmatia
                      You adhere to the official version, your right.

                      You just started to tell, I specify. In your opinion, it turns out that the top leadership of the USSR deliberately decided to bring down a passenger plane. Although honestly, I more believe that he was all mistaken for a reconnaissance aircraft.
                      1. Tuzik
                        Tuzik 12 January 2020 20: 46
                        +1
                        As far as I remember, reconnaissance equipment was found in the wreckage
                    2. Dude
                      Dude 12 January 2020 21: 45
                      +1
                      Quote: Dalmatia
                      Well started .... last names, addresses, appearances, passwords))))
                      I doubt that you want to convince me of something. But you want to convict)))
                      Just what? Is my opinion on the Boeing over Sakhalin different from the official version? So I myself know this. You adhere to the official version, your right.
                      And my right to have my own opinion.
                      There will be no other answer.

                      Yeah, you don’t love specifics feel As soon as you are asked to confirm your statements, by the facts, you merge wink
                      What characterizes ...))
                      1. Dalmatia
                        Dalmatia 13 January 2020 20: 55
                        -2
                        Read carefully, I have expressed an opinion (judgment). And the facts confirm the statements, this is the law of logic (if you know about such a science). And second, you have been on the site for a week without a year, and I have been for almost 6 years, and have not "merged". And none of your minuses, offensive comments will make me do it. You don't have to burden yourself with the answer.
              2. L-39NG
                L-39NG 12 January 2020 20: 34
                +2
                Koreans and in 1983 flew with the backlight of the keel. In addition, Two rows (floors) of illuminated portholes aboard the Boeing 747, even if the curtains are lowered on the portholes, are perfectly visible at a great distance at night. There are no portholes on the RC-135.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 12 January 2020 20: 39
                  0
                  Quote: L-39NG
                  There are no portholes on the RC-135.

                  Did you hear anything about disguise?
                  1. L-39NG
                    L-39NG 12 January 2020 21: 52
                    0
                    And can you imagine how to disguise a Boeing 747 as a Boeing RC-135 and vice versa? Look at the photos or drawings of these aircraft and compare their projections, and not about the size of the conversation. The geometry of the keel and bearing surfaces is completely different. And since the 747 would have been illuminated even if only by navigation lights and wing illumination, there should not have been an error.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 13 January 2020 02: 58
                      0
                      Quote: L-39NG
                      And since the 747 would have been illuminated even if only by navigation lights and wing illumination, there should not have been an error.

                      Are you a pilot? Have you had to go to intercept on supersonic fighters?
          2. Dude
            Dude 12 January 2020 21: 38
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            Quote: gurzuf
            Do you remember how they shot him down?

            It's easier to say HOW MUCH, in time did it take? Rather, how many this plane was "under the gun" and how many measures were taken to force it to certain actions

            And I would still remember another Korean side, 5 years before. Also, not only did it fly where it was supposed to (and, which is typical, also above strategically important defense objects), and, just like that, did not respond to signals, for a long time evaded a forced landing, and, as a result naturally was shot down. True, that flight made a successful emergency. But with South Korean aircraft, at the turn of the 70-80s it was clearly not clean.
      4. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 12 January 2020 19: 47
        +6
        Quote: Dalmatia
        Well, in this case, we must remember 1983, the Korean Boeing over Sakhalin

        At that time the borders were "locked" and everyone knew that extreme measures would be taken for violation of the border, and they could only violate the borders. Violated received. But do not forget, before shooting him down, he was warned more than once, and the fighter flew over. in the Boeing's cockpit, the death of the ship and people. And everyone still remembers what could happen.
    3. Vadivak
      Vadivak 12 January 2020 18: 17
      +5
      Quote: paul3390
      Well, when did the Iranian passenger collapse in the same way at the same time, too, like crooked and mediocre?

      The main reason for the incident in the official report was the psychological state of the Vincennes team, operating in a combat situation under great pressure, as well as the similarity of the flight profile of the liner with the alleged attack profile of the Iranian fighter.
      Later, the cruiser commander was awarded the Legion of Honor order for his successful service from 1987 to 1989.
      1. svp67
        svp67 12 January 2020 18: 40
        +3
        Quote: Vadivak
        The main reason for the incident in the official report was the psychological state of the Vincennes team, operating in a combat situation under great pressure, as well as the similarity of the flight profile of the liner with the alleged attack profile of the Iranian fighter.

        Do not find the similarity of the wording of that incident with this
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 12 January 2020 18: 51
          +2
          Quote: svp67
          Do not find the similarity of the wording of that incident with this

          Partly yes. But I think the Iranians just needed to not let someone out of the country
          1. svp67
            svp67 12 January 2020 18: 55
            +4
            Quote: Vadivak
            But I think the Iranians just needed to not let someone out of the country

            And it was necessary to act that way? After all, it was simply enough to demand that the aircraft return back, threatening to intercept.
  4. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 12 January 2020 17: 57
    -5
    It seems to me that the Iranian gunmen fired at another target, an American or Jewish drone, which "successfully" hid behind the liner.
    1. Do not care
      Do not care 12 January 2020 18: 15
      -11
      Right! I also waited for Kiselev and Kanashenkov to show us satellite imagery and "means of objective control" where the Ukrainian moment from Donetsk knocks down a Boeing over Tehran, behind which Jewish fighters are hiding
      1. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 12 January 2020 18: 20
        -1
        Ukrainian moment sounds funny))

        In general, although Sunday, but I would not recommend plumping into snot or throwing prohibited substances))
      2. svp67
        svp67 12 January 2020 18: 57
        +2
        Quote: Do not care
        Right! I also waited for Kiselev and Kanashenkov to show us satellite imagery and "means of objective control" where the Ukrainian moment from Donetsk knocks down a Boeing over Tehran, behind which Jewish fighters are hiding
        The USA and Iran did everything themselves, without their help ..
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 12 January 2020 19: 01
      -6
      Quote: Lord of the Sith
      It seems to me that the Iranian gunmen fired at another target, an American or Jewish drone, which "successfully" hid behind the liner.

      More and more at Iran's lawyers forum
      1. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 12 January 2020 21: 29
        -3
        C'mon, the Iranians surrendered to me. These are allies.
        It’s another matter that the Yankees jammed for nothing.
        They generally behave like elephants in a china shop.
  5. Shahno
    Shahno 12 January 2020 18: 01
    +4
    I think there will soon be an article on the role of Israel in this mess. There are many interesting points.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 12 January 2020 18: 55
      +3
      One out of two. Either Paul changed his religion or does he know something ...
    2. gmb
      gmb 12 January 2020 20: 44
      0
      Right, move away any plane, and after it the Israeli fighters swarm
  6. Old26
    Old26 12 January 2020 18: 10
    +16
    Quote: Lord of the Sith
    It seems to me that the Iranian gunmen fired at another target, an American or Jewish drone, which "successfully" hid behind the liner.

    Wow, what kind of drones the Jews have. Not only did not a single Iranian air defense radar see them, not even our "Resonances", it also flew 1500 km. The Americans' drones are "sluggish", they flew only 600 km into Iran. Yes, 200-300 kilometers over the territory of Iraq sawed.
    Kamrad! Maybe you should not look for a black cat in a dark room when it is not there. Iranians shot down a passenger liner. Howled about it. They are silent about US drones, although at another time they not only shouted at all corners, but also organized exhibitions of the wreckage.
    They shot down the liner, showing their professionalism. The air defense system operator of the top-secret IRGC base "beguiled" a six-meter-long cruise missile with a 40-meter plane ....
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 12 January 2020 18: 13
      +7
      Quote: Old26
      Not only did not a single Iranian air defense radar see them, not even our "Resonances", it also flew 1500 km

      At the Tor air defense system, there are two locators. One is panoramic, which captures everything that takes off around. He saw the plane twenty seconds later. And all the while the plane was flying, the track was on the screen of the surveillance radar. That is, from the very beginning of the flight it was clear where the target flew from.
    2. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 12 January 2020 18: 26
      +3
      Quote: Old26
      The air defense system operator of the top-secret IRGC base "beguiled" a six-meter-long cruise missile with a 40-meter plane ....

      You know how to write - "with pictures". A plus )
  7. Dalmatia
    Dalmatia 12 January 2020 18: 10
    0
    The author of the article overdid it with sarcasm (or irony), there really are questions to the Iranian side, and the sky wasn’t closed, and they made a mistake in order to see if there were too many mistakes.
  8. knn54
    knn54 12 January 2020 18: 18
    +1
    "Thor" is part of the general air defense system and cannot act independently (without a command from above). Moreover, at such a short distance it is impossible to confuse a plane taking off with a rocket or a drone. But retargeting the missile, after launch, to ANOTHER target (as with the Il-20 in Syria) is quite.
    As history shows, in countries with a dictatorship there are "interest groups." It is quite possible that there is an oppositional, deeply conspiratorial organization at the very top of which almost any operation is capable of. The goal is to discredit the Ayatollah regime and at the same time the IRGC.
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 12 January 2020 18: 38
      +1
      but what the hell is the "air defense system" for monkeys with a grenade? our brave degenerates annually reported on the creation of an air defense system in Syria - and every year the results are on the scoreboard. and it's the same here
  9. Shahno
    Shahno 12 January 2020 18: 22
    +3
    Quote: Stock Officer
    Vadim, I agree with you. I have already expressed my opinion on this issue at VO.
    It is impossible to confuse a low-flying maneuvering target with small shielding with a civilian plane flying at an altitude of more than 2 km, which goes along the well-known dedicated corridor and shines on the screens like a Christmas tree. About identification systems generally keep quiet. Even if we take into account that the Iranians were afraid of American cruise missiles and could shoot at everything that flies, it’s the same as knocking at the door at this door from everything that is in the house. Well, I don’t just believe it. The plane was shot down intentionally.
    After the assassination of an Iranian general, even more terrible news was needed that would overshadow the previous one. Which is what happened.
    So the truth about this event is still very vague. Iranians were appointed extreme, but the ears are clearly American.

    Yes, there the ears stick out of the Ayatollah’s opposition in Iran itself, didn’t guess? As they say, you can’t hide it anymore. Nobody in FIG needs to bring down their own, except for the opposition .. There are, as it were, Canadians of Iranian descent and Iranians, students ..
  10. Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 12 January 2020 18: 22
    -8
    And where did the 75 Canadians come from on Kolomoisky’s plane? It is very similar to the evacuation of Canadian employees of nuclear physicists ...
    1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich
      Vyacheslav Viktorovich 12 January 2020 18: 27
      0
      Have you tried to consider the option that he has a convenient transfer to Canada?
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 12 January 2020 18: 36
        -6
        For whom is it convenient? For Canadians? For them (Canadians) Iran is a fiend of hell, the regime of the ayyah dictatorship ...
        You would have wrapped about the spiers of minarets wassat They say they are beautiful ... laughing
        1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich
          Vyacheslav Viktorovich 12 January 2020 18: 46
          -1
          Yes, yes, on arguments of about this level, 99% of conspiracy theories are built.
          1. Tank jacket
            Tank jacket 12 January 2020 18: 53
            -4
            According to your 138 Canadians, nuclear scientists it would be convenient if they flew through North Korea, or Afghanistan ??? Rave...
        2. 16329
          16329 12 January 2020 19: 23
          +5
          These are Iranians with Canadian passports, like the bulk of passengers, regardless of passports,
          Iranians (Persians and Azerbaijanis) have a very large diaspora in different countries
    2. Tank jacket
      Tank jacket 12 January 2020 19: 02
      -1
      The amendment is 138 Canadian citizens.
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 12 January 2020 20: 11
        0
        Something a lot of coincidences in one day and in one episode. On a Kolomoisky’s plane, Canadian citizens fly from Iran, after an exchange of missile attacks by the United States and Iran, and this coincidence, this particular plane falls ... An urgent evacuation or escape is reminiscent of punishment.
    3. L-39NG
      L-39NG 12 January 2020 20: 46
      +1
      More than 1 Ukrainians with Canadian and dual citizenship live in Canada. It is faster and cheaper for tourists from Canada to fly through Iran to Ukraine than through ordeal with a visa and other prices, directly from Canada.
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 12 January 2020 20: 54
        +1
        So tourists decided to admire the spiers of Iranian minarets? Accepted.
  11. rocket757
    rocket757 12 January 2020 18: 26
    +3
    The media will create the right background ... and who has the keys to that box, which, although not Pandora, but no less dangerous? Certainly not with us.
    And so, according to the waves of memory t.s. Of all those taught, I want to remember the Vietnamese, Cubans ... perhaps from Angola! and for the rest very be-eee.
    1. cniza
      cniza 12 January 2020 18: 51
      +3
      The information war will only increase.
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 12 January 2020 19: 04
        +2
        Greetings Victor hi Who would doubt that soldier
        1. cniza
          cniza 12 January 2020 20: 56
          +3
          Greetings! hi , today it is a very effective weapon, so you must always be prepared ...
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 12 January 2020 19: 10
        +3
        Quote: cniza
        The information war will only increase.

        It seemed for a long time that there was nowhere to go! It seems that the media have no criteria for self-control at all, there are no rules left. Lie more, lie without measure at all, "war, though virtual" will write off everything!
        1. cniza
          cniza 12 January 2020 20: 57
          +3
          The media has one criterion - money ... "whoever eats a girl, dances her" ...
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 12 January 2020 21: 34
            +1
            Wow, you can’t stutter about free, honest, independent media ... business, nothing more.
            1. cniza
              cniza 13 January 2020 09: 20
              +3
              Here are some interesting considerations:
              https://www.km.ru/world/2020/01/11/aviakatastrofy/867678-priznanie-irana-v-gibeli-ukrainskogo-boinga-kishit-nestykovka
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 13 January 2020 09: 34
                +1
                There will be many fantasies, versions ... as long as there is official recognition that they shot down by mistake.
                That’s all that’s clear.
                1. cniza
                  cniza 13 January 2020 09: 37
                  +3
                  Yes, and apparently so beneficial to everyone.
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 13 January 2020 09: 53
                    +1
                    If the "high" negotiating parties come to something, agree, then we will have ... a bunch of fantasies, versions, along the way. Where without them.
  12. Thrifty
    Thrifty 12 January 2020 18: 30
    +5
    In fact, we do not know how everything really happened, so we can talk about the training of Iranian anti-aircraft gunners only in the context that these are only our assumptions! Look, how many ukrointsy shot down passenger planes - at least 2! One in Donbass, and the second is our Russian! And the United States and the mongrels from the EU and NATO ukroinsky army and air defense praise, "a high level of combat training", shout! Then, the training of Iranian lawyers, in this case, is beyond praise! !!
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Thrifty
        Thrifty 12 January 2020 19: 42
        0
        Sasha 3 - in that "international group" no one from the United States even yawns without an order, and the results of their "investigation" are frank falsifications aimed at destroying the image of Russia! Therefore, stop repeating sets of words consisting of lies addressed to Russia!
  13. The comment was deleted.
    1. cniza
      cniza 12 January 2020 18: 49
      +2
      Where did you run so much into V.O. ? Scatter under the bench.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  14. cniza
    cniza 12 January 2020 18: 48
    +3
    At the same time, an information attack on Russia is to be expected with the words: “Russian arms exports bring chaos and death.” Something similar has already begun Turchinov.


    Of course, this is the goal.
  15. Shahno
    Shahno 12 January 2020 18: 56
    +3
    Quote: sabakina
    One out of two. Either Paul changed his religion or does he know something ...

    No, I did not change .. laughing
  16. vanavatny
    vanavatny 12 January 2020 19: 02
    +4
    I don’t really understand why they constantly say that some operator should call someone? to whom? Rowhani? Mom? how much time does he have to make a decision? seconds, minutes, maybe hours or weeks .. picked up the phone, reported, there they created a working group, consulted and called back: they fell, dear, after yesterday ...
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. businessv
    businessv 12 January 2020 19: 10
    -1
    At the moment, the following picture is emerging: the level of qualification of Iranian air defense calculations is not even in doubt, it is shocking.
    I wonder why the version of the intentional fact of an attack committed simply by an individual person (or persons) is not considered? Is it impossible? On the 8th, right after the incident, the version was voiced that the military flew this flight, carrying out an attack on the Amer’s base and the attack was in order to destroy them. Perhaps it? I think that this is possible. The Americans announced that they had launched anti-aircraft missile launches at the same time on the morning of the 8th, of course, this could also be detected with the help of satellites, which were undoubtedly on duty there, but it was announced very quickly. Liberasts do not get excited, this is a private opinion! smile
  19. Prisoner
    Prisoner 12 January 2020 19: 48
    +1
    Pindo-sy I remember the passenger side also valnuli. Also, rukopov and crooked legs.
  20. Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 12 January 2020 19: 56
    +4
    But the Russian Federation needs less to go under the US sanctions, and it even senility - Sanctions against the Russian Federation are carried out by enterprises located on the territory of the Russian Federation and the Russian government likes that they spit on it ... Maybe we need another government that will cleanse the Russian Federation from vrazhin? !! ! And then Putin began to play his multi-ways, as if he had not been too clever ...
  21. Vladyka Ecumenical
    Vladyka Ecumenical 12 January 2020 20: 01
    0
    Nefig croak.
  22. Romanenko
    Romanenko 12 January 2020 20: 09
    0
    That's right, an approximate algorithm of the West is painted, I hope not only on the forum but also in our political circles, now we need to organize countermeasures, and here we are traditionally in ....
    Or not?
  23. Cossack 471
    Cossack 471 12 January 2020 20: 15
    0
    Svidomo had a failure on YouTube. Everything went well. the "hand of Moscow" has already begun to take shape and suddenly the Iranians confessed. that it is they who are to blame Here is bad luck ...
    1. Dude
      Dude 12 January 2020 22: 03
      0
      Quote: Cossack 471
      Svidomo had a failure on YouTube. Everything went well. the "hand of Moscow" has already begun to take shape and suddenly the Iranians confessed. that it is they who are to blame Here is bad luck ...

      Believe me, the second series is waiting for ns! Who produces TOR? That's right, Russia! Therefore, who is to blame? Here again, dancing in the bones will begin in the Svidomo segment of the network ...
  24. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 12 January 2020 20: 22
    +1
    I would like to subscribe personally under each word of the author, even though in the distant past I had serious disagreements with him on some political issues. In this case, many thanks, briefly to the point and exactly, like a sniper shot. Bravo Volodin.
  25. Star Destroyer
    Star Destroyer 12 January 2020 20: 30
    -2
    the level of qualification of Iranian air defense calculations is not even in doubt, it is shocking.
    It's really shocking ... in any case, the Il-20 in Syria and the Boeing MH17 in the Donbas can argue with this.
    about to say: you just imagine what would happen if Iran had at the moment had the “nuclear button”
    They spoke, they say and they will say it. And they’re doing it right. Even before the crash, it was perfectly clear that nuclear weapons could not be trusted in totalitarian countries. Kimov was missed, and now, how much haemorrhoids are with them, China itself is not happy with its proximity to this zoo under the strict guidance of Juche.
    Well, then - ... "resolution in the UN"
    ... which Russia and China will block as usual.
    ...
    Initially, a rotten version, but for the television patriots, any will come down, if only the party line matches)))
    1. asv363
      asv363 13 January 2020 04: 10
      0
      Quote: Star Destroyer
      Even before the crash, it was perfectly clear that nuclear weapons could not be trusted in totalitarian countries.

      1. The criterion by which to determine a totalitarian country or not, do not tell?
      2. Who will determine that the country is totalitarian? Let me remind you that the USSR in the decaying west was considered a totalitarian country.
      3. Why can not you trust the so-called nuclear weapons totalitarian countries?
      1. Santa Fe
        Santa Fe 13 January 2020 05: 09
        0
        Can you tell me the criteria by which a totalitarian country is determined or not?

        “Totalitarian” or not, in this case, different attempts to describe the level of such a country

        If the country is like a garbage can and some nasty incidents are constantly connected with it. If there is a standard of living below the baseboard. If you are glad to run away from there (and have run away), everyone who has just got such an opportunity. If the country produces nothing and does not sell on the world market, except for raw materials.

        What can be doubts?. To trust such a country with modern weapons, call it an ally in anything and consider it worthy to have nuclear weapons on a par with itself - this is not to respect yourself
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 13 January 2020 05: 24
          0
          some nasty incidents are constantly connected with her

          Rather, this is the only news from this country.

          The only news format from Iran: they killed someone, again had a fight with their neighbors, buried the general, broke two button accordions (trampled 50 people)

          No presentations of new technologies, no discoveries, nothing except trash and Islamic insanity
        2. asv363
          asv363 13 January 2020 05: 28
          0
          Quote: Santa Fe
          If the country looks like a garbage dump and some nasty incidents are constantly associated with it

          Oleg, are you talking about the USA?
          1. Santa Fe
            Santa Fe 13 January 2020 05: 55
            0
            If the USA were a dump, how would Amazon work for them with a 2-day delivery of goods anywhere in the country
            1. asv363
              asv363 13 January 2020 06: 33
              0
              But there are enough disgusting incidents inside the United States as well, and their foreign policy and the actions of their troops abroad are just one disastrous incident. For example, inside the country - executions of peers in schools and colleges, drug trafficking on the basis of the SSBN. Abroad, in the same Syria - the seizure of oil fields with working equipment. How many countries were destroyed by the USA - they are not partners to us, but enemies.
              You, comrade Kaptsov, are an interesting author; do not spoil your impression of yourself.
  26. Tuzik
    Tuzik 12 January 2020 20: 31
    +5
    I read articles and comments on them recently, it seemed that the fraternal people of the Russians now are not Ukrainians but Iranians.
    1. gmb
      gmb 12 January 2020 20: 51
      +2
      And the Chinese were
      1. Tuzik
        Tuzik 12 January 2020 20: 58
        +4
        I'm just shocked how politicians manage it.
        1. gmb
          gmb 12 January 2020 21: 08
          -1
          If people think, then they will not appoint a brother. Only kuma
  27. Nikolai
    Nikolai 12 January 2020 20: 37
    +5
    The Iranians also reported an unauthorized change in the course of the Ukrainian plane and the presence of an American drone in the sector. We can assume a repetition (repeated effective) of the scenario with our IL 20 in Syria. Lost your connection? Yes, it is possible if the drone operator turned on the interference, and the situation to the Torah operator seemed critical. We will wait for the full results of the investigation.
  28. Shahno
    Shahno 12 January 2020 20: 44
    +2
    Quote: Nikolai Aleksandrovich
    The Iranians also reported an unauthorized change in the course of the Ukrainian plane and the presence of an American drone in the sector. We can assume a repetition (repeated effective) of the scenario with our IL 20 in Syria. Lost your connection? Yes, it is possible if the drone operator turned on the interference, and the situation to the Torah operator seemed critical. We will wait for the full results of the investigation.

    So no one hides. There were UAVs with scouts ... Well, they certainly didn't "jam" anything.
    We monitored the "mess".
  29. Shahno
    Shahno 12 January 2020 21: 04
    +2
    Quote: Shahno
    Quote: Nikolai Aleksandrovich
    The Iranians also reported an unauthorized change in the course of the Ukrainian plane and the presence of an American drone in the sector. We can assume a repetition (repeated effective) of the scenario with our IL 20 in Syria. Lost your connection? Yes, it is possible if the drone operator turned on the interference, and the situation to the Torah operator seemed critical. We will wait for the full results of the investigation.

    So no one hides. There were UAVs with scouts ... Well, they certainly didn't "jam" anything.
    We monitored the "mess".

    How did it happen?
    Infa allowed to publish, the only leader who was informed before the liquidation was the BBC ..
  30. Chingachguk
    Chingachguk 12 January 2020 21: 29
    +2
    As far as I know, before you sell a complex of weapons, at first they teach specialists how to work for them. Even a bear can be taught to dance and ride a bicycle. With air defense along the way in Iran is not at all good. The main strike force, it is apparently a suicide bomber hung with TNT. And why was it necessary to warn the Americans in a few hours that they would shoot in their direction? If the answers were scary, what the hell was it to start this clowning? And then with a fright bang a civilian liner ....... Warriors !!!! wassat
  31. iouris
    iouris 12 January 2020 21: 38
    +3
    The aggressor is the one who attacks our peacefully bombing planes.
  32. Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 12 January 2020 21: 40
    +3
    If we are guided exclusively by dry facts (without considering a whole series of oddities and nuances), then the following picture emerges: the level of qualification of Iranian air defense calculations is not even in doubt, it is shocking.

    But in vain you refuse to consider that very sequence. Just the reaction of the calculation looks the most adequate, and if the "switchman" is suddenly punished, there will be a frank excuse for a systemic failure or sabotage.

    The crew called and reported that a cruise missile was seen. Then the connection suddenly broke. A sergeant of an object-based air defense machine covering a specific base or structure hardly has an operational picture of civilian flights. There was a signal about a rocket, and then a target appeared. Communication with the command disappeared. Excuse me, what are your actions? If after a warning you don’t shoot, and this is really a rocket .. You will be shot! And they’ll do it right ..

    There is a second question .. Just literally, Iran launched a missile strike on American bases. And air defense naturally awaits an answer, but a proposal to close the sky should suddenly refuse from above. It turns out that at the top of the answer to your missile strike for some reason they do not wait? Maybe that's why they do not expect that not one American should be killed? But why then down, the air defense did not end the alarm? Or they also have one agency with another in no hurry to share information ..
    1. Ironcity
      Ironcity 12 January 2020 23: 07
      +2
      But why then down, the air defense did not end the alarm? Or they also have one agency with another in no hurry to share information

      Because the blow to the Americans was needed for domestic consumption and was declared a terrible revenge. Therefore, it was necessary to warn the Americans about the strike, but it was impossible to warn the Americans that "there will be no kinase".
    2. Demon_is_ada
      Demon_is_ada 12 January 2020 23: 48
      +1
      I was still greatly surprised by the infa about the "departmental air defense of the IRGC", separated from the military air defense ... STE CHO take ??? belay Is this a type of object? And what are they going to repel a massive blow to the object with their pshikalkami without the support of long-range air defense? And if v52 circled above them at maximum height and sophisticatedly and methodically sadistically throw off leisurely bombs, will they shoot down with his slippers? In general, there is not anti-aircraft defense in my opinion, but whoever sabotaged that saber, it’s genius and efficiently managerial ... so to speak, private anti-aircraft defense, instead of combining so small weapons into a single system that can do anything at least ... Horror personally for me ... they have there in my opinion not only the brain is absent, but also the instinct of self-preservation ...
  33. Oleg Zorin
    Oleg Zorin 12 January 2020 21: 42
    +4
    Fanatics with nuclear weapons are really dangerous. And it is true. As for other weapons, let me ask the author: what if it were ours, a Russian plane?
  34. svoit
    svoit 12 January 2020 21: 43
    +1
    Quote: Saxahorse
    Excuse me, what are your actions? If after a warning you don’t shoot, and this is really a rocket .. You will be shot! And they’ll do it right ..

    not in the eyebrow, but in the eye!
  35. Shahno
    Shahno 12 January 2020 21: 47
    +2
    Quote: Oleg Zorin
    Fanatics with nuclear weapons are really dangerous. And it is true. As for other weapons, let me ask the author: what if it were ours, a Russian plane?

    No matter whose. If you consider yourself in the right, you should be a pro. Well, this is really crazy, you’re reading them nuclear weapons ...
  36. Bukhalov
    Bukhalov 12 January 2020 21: 52
    +3
    There is a fact: a civilian side was shot down. There are recorded (from the anecdotal "this can never be from a scientific point of view" to the arrogant "this is a big lie and fraud") statements of the Iranian official leadership that they were not involved in the tragedy. These clumsy attempts to evade responsibility were followed by a forced confession. This reaction from Tehran is evidence that one can talk about anything, but not that the official authorities were aware of, or authorized the attack. But it is too early to talk about whether the actions of the performer were deliberate or careless. It is not excluded that the elimination of the iconic figure of the representative of the government of Soleimani, the attack on a civilian plane, explained by Iran, as a result of increased tension on the US threats and the outbreak of demonstrations in Iran, are links of the same chain. And if the protests become massive and end with the overthrow of the theocracy in Iran, then it is time to talk about a successful anti-Iranian multi-move of the special services. If the disturbances are of a local nature, then there is no relationship and tremendous club-handedness, lopsidedness, qualified as criminal negligence, was displayed. The site announced a version about an opposition agent, or ISIS, who launched a rocket. Original, but controversial. This guy will be kicked out in one moment during the torture, all about the customers. And the ayatollahs will receive a wonderful p
    A gift gadget to deal with its political opponents in the guise of a criminal case. As we say, Stalin, after the assassination of Kirov, or Erdogan after a failed coup. So let’s wait until the student’s performances end. They are not typical, by the way. The protesters refused to trample the American and Israeli flags drawn on their way.
    1. Fat
      Fat 13 January 2020 00: 57
      +2
      Oh, leave. Many words about what we do not know. You might think there was not a single Korean Boeing in the 80s. They defend themselves as best they can. And for the "misunderstanding" Let them understand themselves in a private, bilateral format. There is no need to boil with indignation for anyone ... We also have other ailments.
  37. Fat
    Fat 13 January 2020 00: 46
    0
    Well .. Sharpened ... And we’ll write down a bulletproof vest as a strategic weapon .. We will affirm it at the UN, yes ... By the principle of tolerance, the enemy must be met exclusively with his trousers removed and turned behind.
  38. Rostislav Bely
    Rostislav Bely 13 January 2020 02: 06
    0
    I think that this can come to the opposite effect - I am not an air defense specialist, but I try to operate with large amounts of information while looking at trends ...
    Namely, what effect could be - building on the principle of a "common sky" with the CIS countries with autonomy for decision-making by the sovereign command and exchange of information, including the provision of data from our satellite constellation ... after all, we even help China in building a missile attack warning system.
    Here the question arises that these actions can be coordinated within the framework of an alternative to the Silk Road in the form of the construction of a canal from the Caspian Sea to the Persian Gulf, so to speak conditionally "Walking over three seas". And the construction itself will stimulate employment in Iran and further de-dollarization of the world economy, since any route, including our Arctic one, implies sovereign military security and banking settlements, even if only within the BRICS or another structure, since Central Asia and us are also open serious prospects, whole industries will start working, including shipbuilding.
    The channel should be considered unprofitable, since it does not provide a quick payback, but it will very seriously stimulate the region’s economy as the same BAM or other USSR construction sites. It is noteworthy for the eastern range of Russian Railways - our ancestors laid the subgrade under double-track tracks while building single-track with inserts to reduce operating costs due to the small volume of cargo turnover - but we thought for the future, for us this is a serious help ...
  39. LeonidL
    LeonidL 13 January 2020 03: 23
    0
    It is worth finding out who owned the installation that brought down the Boeing. if Iran’s regular army is one thing, if the IRGC is another. The RF CSIR did not sell anything and could not sell it - this is not a state structure, but a military-religious (rather religious-military) entity. Transfer of IRGC military equipment is a direct violation of the contract.
  40. Protos
    Protos 13 January 2020 16: 02
    0
    Quote: Jager
    The absence of a unified air defense system is essentially the wildest mess in the army at the level of someone in Zimbabwe.
    Although there were cases that valiant warriors accidentally shot down liners. But damn it, not at the international airport!

    The layered and centralized air defense system didn’t prevent the Ukrainians from shooting down the S-200m Tu-154 flying from Israel yes
    Like IJIS did not prevent fr. like Arly B. bring down a Boeing!
  41. Old26
    Old26 13 January 2020 19: 09
    +2
    Quote: LeonidL
    It is worth finding out who owned the installation that brought down the Boeing. if Iran’s regular army is one thing, if the IRGC is another. The RF CSIR did not sell anything and could not sell it - this is not a state structure, but a military-religious (rather religious-military) entity. Transfer of IRGC military equipment is a direct violation of the contract.

    Well, judging by the fact that this installation was from the "protection" of the top-secret base of the IRGC, then it belonged to her. And the transfer of this technique to the IRGC is not a breach of contract. This is the same as, for example, our Ministry of Defense buys drones through the appropriate structures and transfers some of them to the National Guard. The end user certificate regulates the transfer of weapons to other states, that is, re-export. And by no means internal movements
  42. orf
    orf 13 January 2020 20: 31
    0
    The further, the more muddy and dirtier this whole story .. Where does the infa about "TOR" come from? not a single official statement was made. In Iranian air defense there are many assorted air defense systems and "BUK" and, and "KUB" s, and S-300 and even their own developments .. It is not clear why immediately, when the investigation of the disaster did not even begin, they appointed a switchman, some nameless operator. A professional will tell you that the operator himself will never shoot without a command, even if it is the operator of the 9A310 SDU, because the target designation is given by the KP 9S470, at worst, the commander of the combat crew .. Why a Ukrainian aircraft, despite the fact that there are several sides before it took off without problems? Maybe it's all about his delay by an hour, maybe they wanted to shoot down some other side? You need to look at the flight schedule .. I have one version - the struggle for power, influence and cash flows, and perhaps the seizure of power in Iran is brewing, following the example of Egypt (1952) and Iraq (Saddam). They merged Suleimani, shot down a civilian board, declare the IRGC evil in the flesh, take the people out into the street, mass unrest, many victims among the civilian population, and now the army comes out all in white and takes the side of the people. That lady !! And in general, what is this disgrace of the IRGC's air defense ?! As well as the air defense of the FSB in Russia
  43. seacap
    seacap 14 January 2020 15: 09
    0
    In any armed conflict, the loss of aircraft from the fire of their own air defenses is 5-10%, the norm (before shooting down Powers, they "overwhelmed" their own). when the disproportions in the air defense and air defense forces of the aggressor are overwhelming, t, b, taking into account that, according to experience and combat manuals, the first raids of all still "full-blooded" forces and means are aimed at suppressing air defense, command and control structures, it is quite understandable that combat shifts of calculations from overvoltage and fatigue in the morning lost their nerves, tb. who do not have sustainable combat shooting skills and experience, they were given the command and they did their job. And in addition, there are suggestions that they were also "helped" in this tragic mistake. Questions should be addressed to the superiors, organizers and operational duty officers of higher command posts, who sets the tasks and gives permission to open fire, who organizes air traffic and interaction with air defense. In general, I think they will sort it out without us, and we can only express regret and sympathy.
  44. seacap
    seacap 14 January 2020 15: 14
    0
    Quote: LeonidL
    Russia, the IRGC did not sell anything and could not sell - this is not a state structure,

    Not quite so, this is a voluntary paramilitary militia, such as the police or the national guard, together with special forces, i.e. quite an official state structure.
  45. Old26
    Old26 14 January 2020 15: 37
    +2
    Quote: orf
    The farther, the whole story is muddy and dirty ..

    Quite right. And the main thing is that there are more and more questions, and less and less answers. For example, it became known yesterday that simultaneously with the Ukrainian "Boeing" in the sky over Tehran there was also a plane from Qatar. And its wiring was coordinated with the air defense ...

    Quote: orf
    Where does the infa about "TOP" come from? not a single official statement was made. In Iranian air defense there are many assorted air defense systems and "BUK" and, and "KUB" s, and S-300 and even their own designs ..

    In a statement from the commander of the IRGC aerospace forces, it was mentioned that the plane was shot down by a short-range complex. Iran has only four short-range complexes. These are the ancient British rapier and Tigerkat complexes, the Chinese FM-80 (based on the French Krotal air defense missile system) and the Russian Tor-M1 complex.
    Taking into account the fact that the Ukrainian plane was detected at a distance of 19 km and shot down at a distance of 12 km from the position of the air defense missile system, we can safely delete the British ones. Their engagement range is 6,5 km (Taygerkat) and 7 km (Rapier), respectively.
    The Chinese complex could hit an aircraft at such a range and altitude, but its detection range according to various sources is no more than 18 km (the maximum that I came across was 18,4 km). Therefore, only "Thor" remains. The detection range is 27 km, the destruction range is just 12 km
    And by the way, there are no Buks in service with Iran. "Cubes" were not supplied to Iran either, although there are several batteries in the Iranian air defense system. According to some reports, these are either trophies of the Iran-Iraq war, or were acquired in the early 90s in Romania. But this complex can rather be attributed to medium-range complexes. Yes, and two missiles with a BG of 57 kg would have smashed the liner to shreds (in contrast to the 14-kg from the "Thor"

    Quote: orf
    It is not clear why immediately, when the disaster investigation did not even begin, they appointed a switchman, some kind of anonymous operator. A professional will tell you that the operator himself will never shoot without a command, even if it is the operator of the 9A310 self-propelled guns, because KP 9S470 gives out target designations, at worst the combat crew commander.

    Well, it was necessary to find the extreme. Over today, through all the news channels, the arrest of several Iranian military is said. And who is this silence

    Quote: orf
    Why is it the Ukrainian plane, despite the fact that several aircraft took off without problems? Maybe the whole thing is his delay for an hour, maybe they wanted to bring down some other board?

    In 20 minutes, before the Ukrainian side, a flight flew to Frankfurt, after 29 0 minutes to Hong Kong



    Quote: orf
    And in general, what kind of outrage is the air defense of the XIER ?! As well as the FSB air defense in Russia

    What kind of outrage is the IRGC or what kind of outrage is the air defense of the IRGC?
    1. orf
      orf 14 January 2020 20: 18
      0
      The air defense of the IRGC is puzzling to me .. Regarding the air defense system from which the plane was shot down, the question is open, the serviceman who made a report and repented clearly has nothing to do with the air defense. A sort of nachpo, says what the commander of an anti-aircraft missile regiment of a motorized division tried to explain to him. What exactly the board was shot down and at what distance only the one who did it knows. So we will wait for the results of the "investigation". By the way, "non-brothers" from Nazi via Romania and Bulgaria quietly supplied "Cuba" to Iran, bypassing the sanctions. Zalaya will be ironic if it turns out that the Ukrainian plane shot down the "Ukrainian" Cube
  46. Korg
    Korg 14 January 2020 20: 45
    0
    Here, rather, the problem is that the supply of arms to Iran by Russia did in circumvention of international sanctions. So - it is indirectly responsible for this tragedy. This also confirms the position of Russia, which blamed anyone but the Iran for the tragedy. And the sparrows that could penetrate the wing, and both faulty engines at the same time, and satellite pictures, where American drones shoot at close range Boeing, and the testimony of the controller Carlos. We just did not have time to write about boarding pre-arranged troupes of passengers on the plane.
    But it turned out that the barmalei had more conscience than the Russian Foreign Ministry, Russian propagandists and Russian experts. Iran acknowledged its responsibility for the downed Boeing, which already causes respect, in contrast to the deceitful position of Russia.
  47. Old26
    Old26 14 January 2020 21: 33
    +3
    Quote: orf
    Air defense of the IRGC is puzzling to me .. Regarding the air defense system from which the plane was shot down, the question is open, the employee who made the report and repented clearly has nothing to do with air defense.

    This report was made by the commander of the Air Force and the Military Space Forces of the IRGC, which also includes air defense. On a post more than 10 years. so IMHO is still relevant to this structure ...

    Quote: orf
    What exactly the board was shot down and at what distance only the one who did it knows. So we will wait for the results of the "investigation".

    With a 1000% guarantee, this will only become known after the end of the investigation. However, indirectly, it was still "Thor". The Iranians have 4 types of short-range air defense systems. Two of them have a range of 6-7 km, while two have just the range that is needed. But the Chinese FM-80 has a smaller detection range and does not reach the announced range of 19-20 km. So there is only one contender - "Tor-M1"

    Quote: orf
    By the way, "non-brothers" from Nazi through Romania and Bulgaria quietly supplied "Cuba" to Iran, bypassing the sanctions. Zalaya will be ironic if it turns out that the Ukrainian plane shot down the "Ukrainian" Cube

    I heard a slightly different option. That it is either a trophy of the Iran-Iraq war, or complexes set at the beginning of 90 of Romania (and not from Ukraine)

    Quote: Korg
    Here, rather, the problem is that the supply of arms to Iran by Russia did in circumvention of international sanctions. So - it is indirectly responsible for this tragedy.

    What kind of weapons did Russia supply in circumvention of sanctions? The UN sanctions were on "offensive weapons". Defensive is not the case. In addition, we ourselves delayed the delivery of the S-300, although after a few years we delivered four divisions
    The Torahs were delivered before 2010, when there were no sanctions for the supply of weapons at all. Iran paid for the supply of "Shell" to Syria, and half of the complexes went to him