Military Review

Tula brainchild of the 1990s: GSh-18 pistol

107

In the 1990s, when the domestic industry as a whole was in critical condition, Tula gunsmiths introduced a new version of the gun. This is the GSh-18 pistol, the letters in the name of which correspond to the initial letters of the names of its designers - Vasily Gryazev and Arkady Shipunov. The number 18 in this gun indicates the capacity of the magazine. In the series GSH-18 went in 2001.


Used this rifle weapon mainly by employees of special units of law enforcement agencies.
A detailed review of the GSh-18 pistol is presented on the Lazarev Tactical channel.

The main task in creating the GS-18 was to have a pistol to replace the PM in the arsenal of Russian power units.

The author of the video notes that in Tula, the Austrian Glock pistol was chosen as the basis, but they did not copy it, but created at least equivalent weapons in terms of firing efficiency and reliability.

A large number of polymer compounds were used in the construction of GSh-18.

In the video:

The introduction of polymers in the design of the gun is a huge advantage for him. Polymers are not subject to corrosion, they practically do not deform. And of course, this is also a reduction in the weight of the weapon.

Movie about GSh-18 pistol:

107 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 22 December 2019 15: 50
    +7
    This is the GSh-18 pistol, the letters in the name of which correspond to the initial letters of the names of its designers - Vasily Gryazev and Arkady Shipunov.
    "Pocket air gun" smile
    A large number of polymer compounds were used in the construction of GSh-18.
    And also the cartridge "Parabelum"
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 22 December 2019 16: 01
      +2
      And what is the survivability of the trunk?
      On average, how many shots is it designed to wear to the limit under the Parabellum cartridge?
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 22 December 2019 19: 27
        +4
        Domestic cartridges 7N21, 7N31 and PBP are very good for him. And the "trunk" itself is quite advanced ... If not for the clumsy quality. As, however, and all Russian "remakes". It's a pity. Without these "little things", export deliveries are impossible, incl. and protected versions.
        And Russian security officials rush from one model to another, not from a good life.
        1. DMB_95
          DMB_95 22 December 2019 20: 12
          +11
          Quote: lexus
          Domestic cartridges 7N21, 7N31 and PBP are very good for him. And the "trunk" itself is quite advanced ... If not for the clumsy quality. As, however, and all Russian "remakes". It's a pity. Without these "little things", export deliveries are impossible, incl. and protected versions.
          And Russian security officials rush from one model to another, not from a good life.

          Gryazev and Shipunov could not create bad weapons. All its shortcomings - from insufficient quality of materials, workmanship, build quality. The gun was born in the 90s, when the weapons factories (and everyone else) sat without salaries and orders, and in the Army there was not even money for diesel fuel and normal food for soldiers ..
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 22 December 2019 20: 21
            +4
            I really have no complaints about the designers. I wrote about it. The gun is really advanced. The design and layout just deserves praise. The case when the production capabilities of the flight of thought did not ripen. To the deepest regret. request
      2. Shopping Mall
        Shopping Mall 22 December 2019 19: 51
        +4
        Quote: The same Lech
        And what is the survivability of the trunk?
        On average, how many shots is it designed to wear to the limit under the Parabellum cartridge?


        The quality is disgusting. According to instructor reviews from a shooting gallery after 10000 rounds of overhaul to the factory. Glock has after 150000 ... the same ammo.
        1. serezhasoldatow
          serezhasoldatow 24 December 2019 15: 07
          0
          Glock can't shoot SAME cartridges.
      3. Ilya_Nsk
        Ilya_Nsk 23 December 2019 13: 27
        +3
        Guys, why do you need trunk survivability? This, by design, is ordinary army pistol. It was not provided for mounting a mounted silencer. Weapon of last chance for point-blank shooting, which is always on the platoon and at the same time safe
    2. Observer2014
      Observer2014 22 December 2019 16: 04
      -6
      Quote: svp67
      This is the GSh-18 pistol, the letters in the name of which correspond to the initial letters of the names of its designers - Vasily Gryazev and Arkady Shipunov.
      "Pocket air gun" smile
      A large number of polymer compounds were used in the construction of GSh-18.
      And also the cartridge "Parabelum"

      Your quote directly from the video Badyuk.Pro GSH18.
      1. Tankist_1980
        Tankist_1980 24 December 2019 21: 53
        +1
        I see Badyuk or Nevsky-put a fat dislike ...
    3. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 22 December 2019 23: 27
      +3
      There are not Luger cartridges, but our special ones. Because his shots at that time, almost no bulletproof vest did not hold.
    4. Nick
      Nick 24 December 2019 01: 12
      0
      Quote: svp67
      And also the cartridge "Parabelum"

      Unification, standardization.
      Are you against?
  2. Observer2014
    Observer2014 22 December 2019 16: 03
    -4
    Touches the finale of the video with requests to share the impression of the use of this gun laughing We do not live in America. We can’t buy short-trunks in Russia.
    1. Dog
      Dog 22 December 2019 16: 18
      +7
      Quote: Observer2014
      We can’t buy short-trunks in Russia.

      Yes, even from Kalash. Have you heard anything about shooting ranges? )))

      http://mgssk.ru/arsenal/
      1. Locksmith
        Locksmith 22 December 2019 18: 14
        +12
        Quote: Dog
        Yes, even from Kalash. Have you heard anything about shooting ranges? )))

        Indeed, GSH-18 has long been heard and in the shooting range too. Unlike others, such as Viking, a very unpleasant descent, but damn its "integrity" is probably twice that of the same Yarygin, where he aimed, and he got there !! The funny thing is that he is not at all small, but for some reason it does not seem cumbersome like a Yarygin, such a little larger than Makarov, it is not for nothing that they put him in the same holster. The recoil is sharper than from the Viking, as if on land, it is absolutely not annoying, the Viking is more difficult to return to its "place". We shot 10 rounds. The balance is different.
        1. tracer
          tracer 23 December 2019 15: 41
          +1
          Is Viking a gun? The dull is not good ..
      2. Alexfly
        Alexfly 7 January 2020 09: 38
        0
        Thank you DogI’ll be in the capital, I’ll definitely drop in at the DOSAAF shooting gallery. Hope it's not that hard to sign up.
    2. Same lech
      Same lech 22 December 2019 16: 20
      +4
      Why buy a short barrel to an ordinary person?
      You won’t get hemorrhoid with him ... you will not get anything from him except for a bunch of problems and inflated vanity.
      It’s difficult to apply without threat of imprisonment ... and keeping him at home is dangerous ... the article will fall into the wrong hands again.
      It’s better to go to the shooting range ... now there are no big problems with this ... passport + money and you can freely go to any licensed shooting gallery.
      1. GKS 2111
        GKS 2111 22 December 2019 16: 41
        +16
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        Why buy a short barrel to an ordinary person?


        You probably live behind a high fence that has been built up in recent years and protected from society. Why, then, you say ... A bitch. Confident to live in this world, that’s why.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 22 December 2019 16: 48
          -13
          Quote: GKS 2111
          Back

          Do not forget to cut the fly. Teoreteg laughing
          1. Destiny
            Destiny 22 December 2019 17: 18
            +3
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            Teoreteg

            Again, the transition to personality and nothing on the merits .. Bored, kitty.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 22 December 2019 19: 10
              -8
              Lyosha, you weren’t called MPK-105 before, by chance? wink

              Do not stand under the tap ... I do not recommend yes
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                    2. NN52
                      NN52 22 December 2019 20: 49
                      +4
                      Lexus (Alex)

                      Do you know these people personally? Who do you stand up for?
                      1. Lexus
                        Lexus 22 December 2019 21: 04
                        +4
                        No, I do not know. I know myself. And I remember how your province company used to hang sleepers on me out of bounds. By the way, I read your pre-Orden comments with interest. We even argued very productively. And then ... the rotten mouthpiece of the "Inquisition" called you. And you joined the gray masses of the party. What for? Still do not understand. Cardboard shoulder straps have spoiled many here.
                      2. NN52
                        NN52 22 December 2019 21: 22
                        +4
                        Lexus (Alex)

                        Here's how ... I don’t remember you in principle ... all the more so that they argued “productively”. You are not a specialist in aviation, you would be special, I would remember you. And how did you determine that, the pre-order period is mine? Is it really interesting? And for you (about cardboard shoulder straps), aviation shoulder straps are important to me ... if you understand, of course, what I mean ...
                        Well, about the "gray masses of the party", you got excited .... as well as with a nickname on the VO website.
                      3. Lexus
                        Lexus 22 December 2019 21: 47
                        +1
                        Ascended over everyone? I remember that I only brought my observations of the airbase, which stands next to me. Departures and quality. I have something to compare with! In Soviet times I fell asleep to the roar of those flying away "around the corner". That the TECH has a blockage of faulty sides, that in the corners of the parking zones "corpses" are crowding. With my own eyes and from communication with fellow flyers. But you are a specialist, you know better from Muhosk. They harnessed to the pack.
                        Your pre-order period ended with the loss of objectivity ... Elementary! And then the "podmahivanie" began.

                        "God Save the Chief!", Oil painting, Vasya Lozhkin, wonderful people's artist
                        In the absence of reasonable arguments and arguments, "dullness" always pokes at nickname and avatar
                        A little!
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                      11. NN52
                        NN52 22 December 2019 22: 20
                        +6
                        Lexus (Alex)
                        Here you have it today .... drink? tomorrow is not driving?
                        About the number of departures, I still realized ... but about the QUALITY of departures from you, is that how ????
                        And it’s good that at least you know the word TEC, it’s already not bad ...
                        And about the objectivity and flicking from you? is this where I messed up? lol
                        Really in flying topics?
                        About the nickname .... I ride it ... that's outraged.
                      12. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 22 December 2019 22: 30
                        -6
                        Quote: lexus
                        "grayness" always pokes at nick

                        Quote: NN52
                        About the nickname .... I ride it... that's outraged

                        Essss !!! good laughing good

                        "Lexus", well, by now you probably understand what is your true purpose yes
                      13. Lexus
                        Lexus 22 December 2019 22: 49
                        +1
                        Do you have a need to drink for courage? It’s not worth it, right. Refrain.
                        As well as selectively read the interlocutor’s comments. And I already wrote about the nickname. He has nothing to do with the brand of car. So don't sit down.
                        Golovan cannot answer for himself at all? Can not manage? I'm here alone, and I'm not weak.
                        And here a good guerrilla has gathered for you. Here is the "Greek", by the way, your colleague in the shop pulled himself up.
                        Even if you gather your whole gang, black will not become whiter from this.
                      14. NN52
                        NN52 22 December 2019 22: 59
                        +3
                        Well, I see .... as I was told, in principle, that it’s not interesting to have a dialogue with you, you’ll go to other topics and photos to the place and paste it out of place ....
                        And you will be the only one ... Unlucky ... Poor you were probably brought up ...
                        So far .. not interesting)
                      15. Lexus
                        Lexus 22 December 2019 23: 28
                        +2
                        You, most importantly, hear yourself. And his conscience. Then everything will be fine.
                        Do not worry about the rest. The cat has a file on me. Ask - he willingly telegraphes you.
                        You have the strength to have your own opinion, it used to work out, because you shouldn’t sound unnecessary SELECTive libel. Good luck, Alex hi
                      16. Nikolai Grek
                        Nikolai Grek 22 December 2019 22: 24
                        +3
                        Quote: lexus
                        We even argued very productively. And then...

                        but potooooooooommm ... the presidential company began ... it began to be drowned openly for the breastplate, and you, along with many here, became pseudo-communists !!! wink wassat wassat laughing laughing laughing
          2. ssergey1978
            ssergey1978 22 December 2019 19: 29
            0
            You do not need a trunk, do not buy. Your right. Others need it. The fly joke is stupid and untrue.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 22 December 2019 19: 36
              -2
              Quote: ssergey1978
              The fly joke is stupid and untrue

              Want to check it out? wink

              Quote: ssergey197
              Others need

              Shkolota on the march ... negative

              It will be necessary - I will roll you with the trunk ... wherever I need. And, yes, young man - for your "78" I have "62". Plus a little bit of very life experience laughing
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 22 December 2019 19: 54
                +2
                It will be necessary - I will turn you with the barrel ... where I need to.

                Do not get carried away with activated carbon. And then, I see, it is for you that Stroporez's laurels do not give rest. Although, when he was here in public to visit you, I remember, you "soaked" on the spot. What parts of the body and bustle, I will not remind. In order not to injure and not violate the rules of the site with you for the company.
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              2. Shopping Mall
                Shopping Mall 22 December 2019 20: 04
                +2
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                Quote: ssergey1978
                The fly joke is stupid and untrue

                Want to check it out? wink

                Quote: ssergey197
                Others need

                Shkolota on the march ... negative

                It will be necessary - I will roll you with the trunk ... wherever I need. And, yes, young man - for your "78" I have "62". Plus a little bit of very life experience laughing


                And this, by the way, is the threat of physical reprisal, it’s already a criminal offense in principle, although of course everything is so streamlined, it seems like steepness and I want to brag about it and get into the article sycotically. Of course, you don’t have to give weapons to people like you, why do potential criminals need weapons? On the other hand, it’s easy to hand out threats to a PC without knowing the opponent ...
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                  1. Shopping Mall
                    Shopping Mall 22 December 2019 20: 14
                    0
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    Quote: AVM
                    And this, by the way, is a threat of physical reprisal, already a criminal offense in principle

                    Oh ... fill up the mouth, buddy ... this is not an insult, this is good advice.

                    Quote: AVM
                    such as you do not need to give weapons

                    Did I ask you for a weapon? Not. So what are you whining for?

                    Quote: AVM
                    it’s easy for a PC to hand out threats without knowing an opponent ...

                    Young man, go through the forest.


                    I’ll go where I decide, and I’ll somehow think of telling you or keeping silent without you too. I’m wondering, do you yourself at least realize the degree of bydlanism of your statements? In the comments, insults, rudeness, poking (at the same time at the same time blaming opponents for it). In principle, this is a free country, theoretically at least say what you want, but I do not want you to harbor illusions about yourself ...
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 22 December 2019 20: 20
                      -4
                      Quote: AVM
                      I don’t want you to have illusions about yourself ...

                      Take care of yourself better. I am very much over fifty dollars, while I am quite capable of myself still confirming what I said live. Tested on animals (c).

                      This is to educate me - it’s a bit too late already ... and who are you, actually, to educate me?

                      I do not see point blank ... request
                      1. Shopping Mall
                        Shopping Mall 22 December 2019 20: 24
                        +2
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Quote: AVM
                        I don’t want you to have illusions about yourself ...

                        Take care of yourself better. I am very much over fifty dollars, while I am quite capable of myself still confirming what I said live. Tested on animals (c).

                        This is to educate me - it’s a bit too late already ... and who are you, actually, to educate me?

                        I do not see point blank ...


                        There are some interesting signs when a person cannot argue his position. In this case, the following are mentioned:
                        - age;
                        - position;
                        - Possession of special skills (read the opportunity to fill the face);
                        - the length of certain parts of the body;
                        well, etc.

                        I am not going to educate you, I am only conducting a discussion within the framework given to you.
                      2. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 22 December 2019 20: 26
                        -4
                        Quote: AVM
                        within the framework given to you

                        In the set, excuse me, to whom? To me? belay

                        Quote: AVM
                        just having a discussion

                        Man ... I'm an anti-troll. People like you - I eat for breakfast, and I do not suffer from indigestion ... well, good:

                        Discussion subject - indicate ... otherwise it’s not clear what you want here, in general. Well, except how to scratch your tongue laughing
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                      6. Okolotochny
                        Okolotochny 23 December 2019 12: 37
                        0
                        Not one I pay attention to the fact that your comments hmm ... very cattle.

                        Better on your weekly prescription. When you began to crawl your higher economic, and you merged.
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                      8. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 23 December 2019 19: 57
                        +1
                        Question to the moderator - and what was offensive in my comment?
                        Victor - do not you think. What are you biased towards me?
                        Military Review Analytics
                        Where is the comma: “You can’t ignore the president’s award,” or the “padded jacket” notes, "Putinoid" and "cheers patriot"
                        March 24 2014
                        The term putinoid refers to particularly zealous defenders of power, as well as a goof (according to Zadornov), kremlebot, etc., and does not bear any personal offensive coloring.
                        Or did you set out to bring me to the ban for personal reasons?
              3. ssergey1978
                ssergey1978 22 December 2019 20: 24
                +2
                It has long been verified. There were many such sweepers.
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        2. Ponchik78
          Ponchik78 22 December 2019 16: 57
          +1
          And often I regretted the lack of a faithful Colt on my hip?))) I’ve never once, despite living in the society that has developed in recent years.
          1. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 22 December 2019 18: 04
            -2
            Quote: Ponchik78
            And often regretted the lack of a faithful Colt on the hip?


            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            And no one thinks that there is not enough spirit to get against a living subject, and even if you shoot a fool ...

            The main thing is that the "living subject" is not XNUMX% sure of his sexual and physical advantage.
            hi
            And the fact that the Russian population will not have short barrels does not mean that criminals will not be armed ...
          2. Shopping Mall
            Shopping Mall 22 December 2019 20: 07
            -1
            Quote: Ponchik78
            And often I regretted the lack of a faithful Colt on my hip?))) I’ve never once, despite living in the society that has developed in recent years.


            It reminds conversations of young ladies walking, they say I’ve been wandering around the gates all my life and have never been raped, that means there are no rapes and everyone who claims them or lies or is to blame. Do you really think that statistics can only be based on personal experience?
        3. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 22 December 2019 17: 51
          +1
          So why do you need a short barrel? Two options that I understand - you fear for your life or the safety of your family or you are an athlete.
          1. Shopping Mall
            Shopping Mall 22 December 2019 20: 09
            -2
            Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
            So why do you need a short barrel? Two options that I understand - you fear for your life or the safety of your family or you are an athlete.

            If a person is absolutely not afraid for his life, then either he belongs to very rich people or the nomenclature, which is protected by other armed people, or ... well, this is strange. In general, an article is planned about a certain psychology of the victim - victimization.
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 22 December 2019 21: 27
            0
            Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
            or you are an athlete.

            Sergey, the only sport that can help in a conflict with a gop company is fast running. An example is the murder of a special forces soldier in a tavern not so long ago. hi
        4. Same lech
          Same lech 22 December 2019 18: 05
          +10
          I live in an area where the criminogenic situation escalates from time to time ... smile
          I explain for lovers of the short barrel ... current laws will not allow you to fully use the gun ... the punitive organs of the victim of the attack will quickly make you a suspect in the attack.
          Therefore, until the laws on the self-defense of ordinary citizens are changed, there is little sense in having a gun ... well, unless in order to go to jail.
          Of course, when there is a direct threat to life, you need to use everything that is at hand, including the short barrel ... as they say let three better judge than six bear ... do not care about the law in this case.
          1. CommanderDIVA
            CommanderDIVA 22 December 2019 19: 16
            +1
            Buy an injury, at a distance of three steps it pounds well there are even 45 caliber
          2. Lexus
            Lexus 22 December 2019 19: 35
            -1
            Namesake, and you yourself have just answered all your own questions. But, in part, I do not agree with you. The threat of using a firearm will make you think and change your mind about 90% of sane forwards. For warning shots in the air, fortunately, until they land.
        5. Same lech
          Same lech 22 December 2019 18: 15
          +1
          Freud's personality is a little ragged in my opinion smile
        6. Flooding
          Flooding 22 December 2019 19: 03
          +2
          Quote: GKS 2111
          You probably live behind a high fence that has been built up in recent years and protected from society. Why, then, you say ... A bitch. Confident to live in this world, that’s why.

          Comrade Undecim responded well to this in the comments to the article "The Mystic of War Dreams" dated July 1 of this year.
          Quote: Undecim
          Grandfather Freud interpreted everything through the phallus, because the phrase looks like this: "The fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and mental development."
          But supporters of universal arms should not rejoice, for Freud brought weapons, as one example of sublimators of this same phallus
          Sublimation is a protective mechanism of the psyche, which is the removal of internal tension by redirecting energy to achieve acceptable goals. First described by Freud.
          Those. according to Freud, if a person is not sure of his phallus, or is concerned about this issue, then the gun is a kind of compensator for this uncertainty or concern. This is from the same row as red Ferrari for small men.
          And the people sculpt this phrase where necessary, where not necessary, forgetting that Freud should be read carefully, since he himself was far from ideal in terms of psychological state.

          And he is right, if only because those citizens who dragged this phrase on different forums themselves did not read a page from Freud. And therefore it would be very frivolous to believe that they understand what this quote is about.
      2. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 22 December 2019 16: 49
        -3
        Because many believe that if he has a "gun" in his pocket, then he, like a macho, walks along the central streets, beauties give him their admiring glances, and crooks and criminals turn into the gateways. In general, the superman of the twenty-first century.
        And no one thinks that there is not enough spirit to get it against a living subject, and even if you shoot with a fool, then they drag out the courts, and even sew the excess! ...
        1. Boris Razor
          Boris Razor 22 December 2019 16: 58
          +4
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          no one thinks that there is not enough spirit to get against a living subject

          "Are you afraid you won't be able to kill a man?"
          "No, I'm afraid I can do it easily."

          Where did this topic come about: can’t you shoot at a person? In prisons of everyday life, in everyday life, one another is bloodier - and none of this mass, obviously, had moral distress in time.
          1. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins 22 December 2019 17: 04
            -4
            Probably from the story of D. London "To Kill a Man"?
            1. Boris Razor
              Boris Razor 22 December 2019 17: 16
              -1
              Tolley times are changing, Tolley D. London, nevertheless, a dreamer
          2. Ingenegr
            Ingenegr 22 December 2019 20: 55
            -1
            Boris Razor, where were you in the summer of 2009? July-September.
            If from the Barrow - a big hello.
            1. Boris Razor
              Boris Razor 24 December 2019 13: 57
              +1
              Quote: Ingenegr
              Boris Razor, where were you in the summer of 2009?

              I sat. Actually, I'm sitting now.
        2. Jager
          Jager 22 December 2019 17: 32
          +1
          You can shoot with a foot from a stool. Application / non-application depends on many factors. You can withstand a fight with an alligator with a mushroom picker's knife, or you can "merge" with a machine gun from a trio of gopniks.
          The questions of even self-defense are very vague with us, let alone the situation with the use of a firearm.
          1. Sergey Averchenkov
            Sergey Averchenkov 22 December 2019 17: 58
            0
            Sorry, I didn’t understand you ... I’ve been with weapons all my life ... I can’t imagine myself with a knife against a bear (we don’t have any alligators), even with AK I wouldn’t like such a thing - just prepared. And from gopnik more than enough 22lr.
            1. Jager
              Jager 22 December 2019 18: 03
              +3
              You have experience with weapons. The vast majority even did not hold PM. Then the person gets permission to injure and ... either afraid to use it or begins to shoot in completely harmless situations.
              For example, I'm not sure that I can quickly and efficiently use weapons, even if they were in my hands. I mean, we need serious preparation and a culture of handling weapons.
              1. Sergey Averchenkov
                Sergey Averchenkov 22 December 2019 18: 07
                +1
                I absolutely agree.
              2. Ingenegr
                Ingenegr 22 December 2019 21: 00
                -1
                We need serious preparation and a culture of driving a car. I hope this thesis is not in doubt? Nevertheless, I personally do not observe anywhere, or severe polemics for the ban on personal vehicles.
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 22 December 2019 21: 52
                  0
                  Quote: Ingenegr
                  Nevertheless, I personally do not observe anywhere, or severe polemics for the ban on personal vehicles.

                  The argument is not that strong. Rather, the opposite.
                  Weapons and vehicles are, by definition, two different things.
                  And the level of threat is different.
                  If only because transport, by virtue of its size and device, cannot (in the vast majority of cases) become an unexpected threat in the hands of inadequacy.
                  1. However, dear
                    However, dear 22 December 2019 22: 16
                    -1
                    Quote: Flood
                    unexpected threat in the hands of inadequate


                    In the hands of inadequacy, much can become a weapon. Hammer, table knife, gasoline, fertilizers ...
                    1. Flooding
                      Flooding 22 December 2019 22: 26
                      +1
                      Quote: However, Dear
                      In the hands of inadequacy, much can become a weapon. Hammer, table knife, gasoline, fertilizers ...

                      Something can become a weapon.
                      And the weapon is originally such.
                      What do you want to prove? Is the plug and gun equally dangerous?
                      1. However, dear
                        However, dear 22 December 2019 22: 31
                        -1
                        And you can kill with a fork, and you can only scare off a gun. I want to say that the danger is a person, not an object.
                      2. Flooding
                        Flooding 22 December 2019 22: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: However, dear
                        And you can kill with a fork, and you can only scare off a gun. I want to say that the danger is a person, not an object.

                        Big mistake.
                        Is danger a man? Yes.
                        But the more deadly weapons in his hands - the greater the danger he poses.
                        And for reflection: how do you react to the plug in the hands of an aggressive person? And the gun? Do you have a gun too?
                        Sorry, but I see such statements as amateurish.
                        Listen to you, so you do not care what kind of weapon in the hands of your opponent.
                      3. However, dear
                        However, dear 22 December 2019 22: 45
                        -2
                        Quote: Flood
                        Is danger a man? Yes.
                        But the more deadly weapons in his hands - the greater the danger he poses.
                        And for reflection: how do you react to the plug in the hands of an aggressive person? And the gun? Do you have a gun too?
                        Sorry, but I see such statements as amateurish.
                        Listen to you, so you do not care what kind of weapon in the hands of your opponent.


                        I do not argue with you that inadequate with a gun is more dangerous than with a plug. But the eternal theme is whether to allow the vast majority of adequate citizens to protect themselves with a pistol. The ban on short-barrel works against adequate and law-abiding only.
                      4. Flooding
                        Flooding 22 December 2019 22: 51
                        0
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        But the eternal theme is whether to allow the vast majority of adequate citizens to protect themselves with a pistol. The ban on short-barrel works against adequate and law-abiding only.

                        Again we return to where we started - what is your evidence?
                        So far, there is no obvious evidence of your allegations.
                        There is only an opinion.
                        And I am deeply convinced that we must not start with weapons. And not from the culture of weapons. And just from the culture. With a culture of relationships in society.
                      5. However, dear
                        However, dear 22 December 2019 23: 02
                        -1
                        Quote: Flood
                        Again we return to where we started - what is your evidence?
                        So far, there is no obvious evidence of your allegations.
                        There is only an opinion.
                        And I am deeply convinced that we must not start with weapons. And not from the culture of weapons. And just from the culture. With a culture of relationships in society.



                        What evidence are you talking about? Isn't it obvious that a criminal is always armed, but a law-abiding one does not suffer? Raising the general level of society's culture is a task akin to "building a bright future", that is, it is not defined in time and in general, it is not clear whether and when and how this level of culture can be measured.
                      6. Flooding
                        Flooding 22 December 2019 23: 12
                        +1
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        What evidence are you talking about?

                        The rationale.
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        Is it not obvious that the criminal is always armed, and the law-abiding one did not?

                        No, not obvious. Because crimes are different, like criminals. And not for each of them aggravating circumstances. However, if you consider a plug to be a weapon, it will be difficult to challenge.
                        Why do you call law-abiding citizens terpils? In your opinion, all victims of malefactors are terpils? Ah, how bad. This is either a conscious device, or a flaw in the very culture that I wrote about above.
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        Raising the general level of society's culture is a task akin to "building a bright future"

                        You will be surprised, but not so long ago it was everyday reality. This time. And the main factor in raising culture is just the level of law-abiding citizens. Which is formed only by law enforcement practice, the work of law enforcement agencies and the judicial system. What is the number one task for any state. Nothing extraordinary and utopian as you might think. These are two.
                      7. However, dear
                        However, dear 22 December 2019 23: 20
                        -1
                        I'm not trying to convince you. Probably, we will remain everyone in our opinion. But, for example, the United States, in the states where the most stringent laws on weapons are fired the most.
                      8. Flooding
                        Flooding 22 December 2019 23: 31
                        +2
                        Quote: However, dear
                        I'm not trying to convince you. Probably, we will remain everyone in our opinion. But, for example, the United States, in the states where the most stringent laws on weapons are fired the most.

                        So, interesting questions arise.
                        1. Hence, the legalization of the short-barrel is not a panacea for crime. And it is needed not by society and not by the state, but by a specific individual to whom the trunk gives a sense of security.
                        2. In the United States, gun laws vary widely from state to state. Like the number of serious crimes. Moreover, there is no direct correlation between the liberalism of laws on weapons and the level of crime. In different states in different ways.
                        3. We return to the culture of relations in society.
                      9. However, dear
                        However, dear 23 December 2019 00: 04
                        -1
                        Of course, the right to own weapons is not a panacea for protection against criminals. But, in the bottom line, it is the right to have weapons and use them for self-defense. And when such a right exists, it is better than when it does not exist. You will not mind what is better when more rights than bans? And in some states, where almost the entire adult population owns weapons, the most calm criminogenic situation. And yes, of course, the culture of society is wonderful, who would mind. drinks
                      10. Flooding
                        Flooding 23 December 2019 00: 16
                        0
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        And when such a right exists, it is better than when it does not exist.

                        Better for whom and for what?
                        I have already tried to convey to you information that, in general, for society, while maintaining other conditions unchanged, this does not give any positive effect.
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        You will not mind what is better when more rights than bans?

                        I will. Because any right of one individual limits the rights and freedoms of others, if it is not squeezed into the strict framework of the law. Because any right without duties is anarchy. Because any obligation, by definition, is a restriction, coercion, and therefore is prohibitive.
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        And in some states, where almost the entire adult population owns weapons, the most calm criminogenic situation.

                        I already gave you a hint. In the ranking of states with the highest levels of serious crimes, states with the most liberal weapons laws occupy both the first and last lines. Ask a question.
                        What is this supposed to talk about? The fact that the matter is not so much in legislative norms as in the specifics of the cultural characteristics of the region.
                        Your reasoning is too loose and divorced from reality.
                      11. However, dear
                        However, dear 23 December 2019 00: 30
                        -2
                        Quote: Flood
                        Better for whom and for what?
                        I have already tried to convey to you information that, in general, for society


                        Better for an individual who has the additional ability to protect himself. As for the benefits to society, after all, it was society that adopted this right, which was prescribed in the constitution.

                        I will. Because any right of one individual limits the rights and freedoms of others, if it is not squeezed into the strict framework of the law.


                        In this case, our views on life are diametrically opposed. I believe that the more rights and freedoms and the less prohibitions, the higher the level of society.

                        The fact that the matter is not so much in legislative norms as in the specifics of the cultural characteristics of the region.


                        Here I agree with you.
                      12. Flooding
                        Flooding 23 December 2019 00: 46
                        0
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        Better for an individual who has the additional ability to protect himself. As for the benefits to society, after all, it was society that adopted this right, which was prescribed in the constitution.

                        It is impossible to consider the freedoms of an individual in isolation from the society in which he lives. Because it is precisely society that provides it with living conditions. And therefore it is absolutely fair to say that common interests prevail over private interests.
                        So it was and it will be so. Otherwise, no one would go from Siberia, Kazakhstan, from the Urals to defend their homeland when he was not in immediate danger. But society is above the life and desires of the individual.
                        You rightly noted that the law guarantees the protection of the rights of citizens and gives them the right to protect their lives. But at the same time, he outlines the framework within which citizens can exercise this right.
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        In this case, our views on life are diametrically opposed. I believe that the more rights and freedoms and the less prohibitions, the higher the level of society.

                        You are not the only one. I would not like to upset you, but there is no place on Earth where such principles apply. These are utopian views.
                      13. However, dear
                        However, dear 23 December 2019 01: 13
                        -2
                        Quote: Flood
                        It is impossible to consider the freedoms of an individual in isolation from the society in which he lives. Because it is precisely society that provides it with living conditions. And therefore it is absolutely fair to say that common interests prevail over private interests.
                        So it was and it will be so. Otherwise, no one would go from Siberia, Kazakhstan, from the Urals to defend their homeland when he was not in immediate danger. But society is above the life and desires of the individual.
                        You rightly noted that the law guarantees the protection of the rights of citizens and gives them the right to protect their lives. But at the same time, he outlines the framework within which citizens can exercise this right.
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        In this case, our views on life are diametrically opposed. I believe that the more rights and freedoms and the less prohibitions, the higher the level of society.

                        You are not the only one. I would not like to upset you, but there is no place on Earth where such principles apply. These are utopian views.


                        This already goes far from the original topic of discussion. Of course, there is no absolute freedom anywhere and everything should be within the law. But, here, taking for example two things: the right to own weapons and registration. In the United States, a citizen has the right to arms, since society has decided that this is good and gave him this right through the constitution. And registration: in the US, a citizen can live anywhere freely without additional permissions. Society has not invented laws prohibiting a citizen from coming to, say, New York or any other city. In Russia, on the contrary: there is no right to a weapon; This is reality, not utopia. Where is free in your opinion?
                      14. Flooding
                        Flooding 23 December 2019 01: 24
                        0
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        In the United States, a citizen has the right to arms, since society has decided that this is good and gave him this right through the constitution. And registration: in the US, a citizen can live anywhere freely without additional permissions. Society has not invented laws prohibiting a citizen from coming to, say, New York or any other city. In Russia, on the contrary: there is no right to a weapon, there is a registration.

                        Legislative practice is directly related to the history of the state and society, mentality and traditions. Wrong to cut everyone under one comb. Not only wrong, but also unrealizable in the foreseeable future.
                        Only one thing is important - to what extent the current construction of laws and norms meets the existing challenges and tasks. Everything, no more, no less. If appropriate, then do not lick tracing paper from Americans or Australians.
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        Where is free in your opinion?

                        The question is rhetorical. Charge for the tongue.
                        Rumor has it, the US police presses their nose to the floor with any attempt to disobey. Where do you think free?
                        People say that American prisons are overwhelmed with convicts. Where do you think free?
                      15. However, dear
                        However, dear 23 December 2019 03: 32
                        -2
                        Quote: Flood
                        Legislative practice is directly related to the history of the state and society, mentality and traditions. Wrong to cut everyone under one comb. Not only wrong, but also unrealizable in the foreseeable future.
                        Only one thing is important - to what extent the current construction of laws and norms meets the existing challenges and tasks. Everything, no more, no less. If appropriate, then do not lick tracing paper from Americans or Australians.


                        So, serfdom, until it was abolished, also "corresponded". To take good things by the example of other countries and implement them at home - what's wrong with that?


                        Quote: However, dear
                        Where is free in your opinion?

                        The question is rhetorical. Charge for the tongue.
                        Rumor has it, the US police presses their nose to the floor with any attempt to disobey. Where do you think free?
                        People say that American prisons are overwhelmed with convicts. Where do you think free?


                        This is not a rhetorical question, but rather, even quantified in the studies. RATING OF COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD BY LEVEL OF POLITICAL AND CIVIL FREEDOM. Take an interest. The United States occupies the 53rd place, Russia 176 - from 208.

                        https://gtmarket.ru/ratings/freedom-the-world/info
                      16. The comment was deleted.
                      17. Flooding
                        Flooding 23 December 2019 08: 33
                        0
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        So, serfdom, until it was abolished, also "corresponded". To take good things by the example of other countries and implement them at home - what's wrong with that?

                        And again the manipulation.
                        You have not yet been convincing in your attempt to prove that legalizing a firearm is a blessing.
                        Serfdom until its abolition corresponded only to the interests of the ruling class. Massive bloody uprisings in the 17-18 centuries speak eloquently about this.
                        And I did not write "whatever is done - everything is for the best." I will repeat for a better understanding
                        Quote: Flood
                        Legislative practice is directly related to the history of the state and society, mentality and traditions. Wrong to cut everyone under one comb. Not only wrong, but also unrealizable in the foreseeable future.
                        Only one thing is important - to what extent the current construction of laws and norms meets the existing challenges and tasks. Everything, no more, no less. If appropriate, then do not lick tracing paper from Americans or Australians.

                        Is there anything to object to? No? Be healthy.
                      18. However, dear
                        However, dear 23 December 2019 09: 12
                        -1
                        I did not intend to incline you or manipulate you all the more. Do you want to continue to consider that what is forbidden to you, then, like, is not necessary - continue in the same vein. Have a nice day!
                      19. Flooding
                        Flooding 23 December 2019 09: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        Have a nice day!

                        All the best.
                        Until the next verbal battles))
                      20. However, dear
                        However, dear 23 December 2019 09: 35
                        -2
                        drinks By the way, do you have a gun? I have two of them. hi
                      21. Flooding
                        Flooding 23 December 2019 09: 37
                        0
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        By the way, do you have a gun? I have two of them.

                        No. Although I have such an opportunity.
                      22. Flooding
                        Flooding 23 December 2019 08: 36
                        0
                        Quote: However, Dear
                        RATING OF COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD BY LEVEL OF POLITICAL AND CIVIL FREEDOM. Take an interest. The United States occupies the 53rd place, Russia 176 - from 208.

                        https://gtmarket.ru/ratings/freedom-the-world/info

                        Obvious manipulation, conscious or unconscious.
                        Is legalization of weapons one of the markers in this ranking?
                        Obviously not.
                        Ireland - 15th place in the rating you specified. Storage of weapons is prohibited in 1974.
                        Great Britain - 27th place in the same rating. The possession of firearms has been prohibited since 1997.
                        A reasonable question: what does the weapon have to do with it? What does it have to do with democratic rights and freedoms?
        3. Karen
          Karen 22 December 2019 18: 25
          +3
          Practice has already shown in the Russian Federation: if you are afraid to get a term for wearing a short barrel, then it is possible to stretch your legs ...
          My son, a sidekick, in Moscow constantly participated in fights without rules, but admitted that he was afraid to appear in an unfamiliar place without traumas late in the evening ...
        4. ssergey1978
          ssergey1978 22 December 2019 19: 34
          -2
          Perhaps your spirit is not enough. Why speak for everyone. And the criminal has enough of the spirit to drag on the trunk and think whether to shoot at him or not. From experience, I’ll say someone doesn’t go to the trunk.
        5. Shopping Mall
          Shopping Mall 22 December 2019 20: 20
          0
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Because many believe that if he has a "gun" in his pocket, then he, like a macho, walks along the central streets, beauties give him their admiring glances, and crooks and criminals turn into the gateways. In general, the superman of the twenty-first century.
          And no one thinks that there is not enough spirit to get it against a living subject, and even if you shoot with a fool, then they drag out the courts, and even sew the excess! ...


          Interestingly, what kind of ability allows you to find out what the owner of the short-barrel thinks? Here's what's interesting. There are millions of legitimate owners of long-barreled weapons in Russia. Power to the haves and very rich people, short-barrels are de facto allowed (in the form of an award weapon or a purchase as a sporting weapon and wearing it "without problems" (what problems can a person have if they can pay 2 rubles for a pistol? Https: //www.kolchuga. ru / internet_shop / oruzhie / sportivnoe_oruzhie / pistolet_sig_sauer_p_500_x_five_old_gringo_boots_000_mm /
          Do you seriously think that he will deliver it to the shooting gallery?

          Despite all this, there are cases of unlawful use of a unit, of which 1/2, or even 2/3 or 9/10 are left-handed punishments for any delay, improper storage, wearing, etc.

          And despite this, people like you are trying to position the owners of weapons as some kind of flawed ones.
      3. Shopping Mall
        Shopping Mall 22 December 2019 20: 00
        -1
        Quote: The same Lech
        Why buy a short barrel to an ordinary person?
        You won’t get hemorrhoid with him ... you will not get anything from him except for a bunch of problems and inflated vanity.
        It’s difficult to apply without threat of imprisonment ... and keeping him at home is dangerous ... the article will fall into the wrong hands again.
        It’s better to go to the shooting range ... now there are no big problems with this ... passport + money and you can freely go to any licensed shooting gallery.


        What kind of hemorrhoids are interesting? Re-take the exam every 5 years and spend 5-7 thousand rubles? And where is vanity? No, of course, some have no "Stechkin" with gilding anywhere, but in general a pistol is the same as a drill or pliers, i.e. a tool for performing a certain type of action. But the fact that some mention weapons necessarily in the context of the psychological problems of its owner says a lot about them.

        And about the application - read the law and regulations, decisions of the Supreme Court, be reasonable and adequate and everything will be fine. And if you’re not at all lucky, then it’s better to let twelve be judged than six.

        And at home it’s so scary to leave ... What is the fright of the article, if the weapons are stored according to the rules, but the house was robbed? No need to spread stupid gossip. And if it’s really scary, that is, such a thing as an alarm system, like the Ministry of Internal Affairs or private companies, you can put it on your own.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Ingenegr
      Ingenegr 22 December 2019 18: 21
      -1
      No one bothers to get acquainted with the sports option GSH-18S. In commercial shooting galleries in some places present.
  3. Dog
    Dog 22 December 2019 16: 04
    +2
    The second year I want to go shoot him. I'll definitely get together in 2020! )))
  4. Alexander Alekseev_2
    Alexander Alekseev_2 22 December 2019 16: 51
    -5
    That's the way Puten bodyguards with Glocks walk ...
    1. Ingenegr
      Ingenegr 22 December 2019 18: 22
      -1
      And they’re doing it right. Best the enemy of the good. And especially bad.
    2. hohkn
      hohkn 28 February 2020 15: 43
      0
      Quote: Alexander Alekseev_2
      That's the way Puten bodyguards with Glocks walk ...

      In fact, they go with the CP-1, for that matter. And they have Glocks with them only in those countries where the authorities object to the CP-1 due to its great armor penetration.
  5. Sandro1977
    Sandro1977 22 December 2019 16: 54
    +5
    How do polymers feel in 15-20 years
    1. However, dear
      However, dear 22 December 2019 22: 09
      -2
      Quote: Sandro1977
      How do polymers feel in 15-20 years


      As a former chemist, I will say that high-quality polymers will survive steel and aluminum.
  6. Catfish
    Catfish 22 December 2019 16: 57
    +4
    In order to write something about a weapon, you need to at least "try" it, I, alas, do not have such an opportunity, in a shooting gallery you will not particularly shoot at my pension. In the reviews that caught my eye, opinions about the General Staff diverge in exactly opposite directions. The only thing in which the sides agree is that it is impossible to push all the declared eighteen rounds into the store without a charging machine. They also complain about the front part of the shutter casing, which is open to any dirt. But, as far as I know, all the products previously published by Gryazev and Shipunov were of a very high quality and did not cause any complaints.
    I wanted this barrel to be commented on by someone who actually had business with him.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 22 December 2019 18: 07
      -1
      Quote: Sea Cat
      I wanted this barrel to be commented on by someone who actually had business with him.

      Sergey Badiuk spoke about it with dignity ...
    2. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 22 December 2019 20: 29
      -1
      Quote: Sea Cat
      In order to write something about a weapon, you need to at least "try" it, I, alas, do not have such an opportunity, in a shooting gallery you will not particularly shoot at my pension.


      I can only recommend tracking stocks. He himself went to shoot from the General Staff on New Year's action, somewhere around 1500 for 50 rounds of General Staff and Glock-17.

      Quote: Sea Cat
      I wanted this barrel to be commented on by someone who actually had business with him.


      GS instructor scolded. From Glock shoot more comfortable, but not to say that radically. The only thing that confuses the difference in resource. If Glock-17 holds 100000-150000, then GSh-18 is about 10000. They will reach 50000 and there will be norms. The second question - there are a lot of things to Glock - sights, pads on the handles, i.e. it’s like the iPhone or Samsung, to which everything is there, but you will not find an unknown model.
  7. Amateur
    Amateur 22 December 2019 18: 10
    -1
    the Austrian Glock pistol was chosen as the basis, but they did not copy it, but created at least equivalent weapons and fire-fighting efficiency and reliability.

    By the beginning of the 08th century, the Luger P96 and Mauser C1 models were developed [Note. 1909]. In 1907, the Roth-Steyr M2 self-loading pistol was adopted by the Austrian cavalry. [XNUMX] This was the first case of adopting a self-loading pistol by a large military formation.

    Based on the author’s logic GS-18 is a modernized version of the Parabellum P-08.
    They have the same cartridge 9 * 19 Luger
  8. Double major
    Double major 22 December 2019 18: 43
    +3
    There, as far as I heard from the shooters who used it, the main problem is the quality of execution. Guys when charging the store skin on the thumb to the bone about the burrs tore apart ... Well, and throws it when shooting is not childish - easy.
  9. alexey alexeyev_2
    alexey alexeyev_2 23 December 2019 00: 18
    +1
    Vasily Petrovich-GENIUS ... Could do everything .. From guns to pistols .. Although pistols are hobbies
  10. IL-64
    IL-64 23 December 2019 01: 43
    -2
    Shoot. In appearance and tactile - terribly clumsy. Compared with the Slovak K-100, also with a polymer frame. I did not understand what the trick is, but the accuracy of shooting is very sensitive to the density of the grip and the uniformity (repeatability at the level of reflexes) of holding. I would say this: never an army pistol, where a pistol is a "last chance" weapon, while its owner knows how to shoot from it, but he rarely does it, but for an MTR officer who shoots a lot and often, quite. I remember a very comfortable recoil. I remember the first impressions of the SCS once, - This is the same gun! Where I sent it, I got there. The army pistol should be the same. So that, having pulled it out of the holster, it would not be possible to pick it up incorrectly, and with an incorrect grip (where is it correct at a pistol fire distance - 5-10 meters, in stress?), Get where the barrel is directed