The myth of the aggression of the "criminal Stalinist regime" against the "peaceful" Finland

The myth of the aggression of the "criminal Stalinist regime" against the "peaceful" Finland

Soviet tank T-26 overcomes virgin snow. Karelian Isthmus


80 years ago, on 30 on November 1939, the Soviet-Finnish War (“Winter War”) began. Soviet troops went on the offensive on the Finnish border. The war was caused by objective reasons: the hostility of Finland, the inability of the Finnish leadership to agree with Moscow and the vital need for the USSR to move the border from Leningrad in the context of a large war in Europe.

The myth of the aggression of the "bloody" Stalinist regime


In Soviet historiography, the Winter War was not widely covered. This was due, on the one hand, to the not very successful actions of the Red Army, and on the other hand, to a kind of “political correctness” of the USSR in relation to Finland. After World War II, Finland, when it was “forced to peace,” was considered a friendly country, although it did not enter the socialist camp. The Finns were "an affectionate calf that sucks two queens." That is, they used the benefits of friendship with the Union, and continued to be part of the capitalist world. Therefore, official Soviet propaganda tried not to offend the "partner."

After the collapse of the USSR, the situation changed dramatically. The liberal-democratic propaganda of Russia, official and free, began by all means to denigrate the image of the USSR and especially the Stalin period. The Winter War has become a popular topic in exposing Soviet totalitarianism, the Soviet evil empire and the bloody Stalin. The authors, many of whom had previously loudly praised the USSR, Marx and Lenin, quickly “repainted” as liberals and in every possible way reproached their homeland. At the same time, absolutely fantastic ratios of our and Finnish losses were cited. It came to the point that it seemed that the USSR lost the war, and Finland was the winner. Many ordinary people were sincerely sure that the USSR had lost the war miserably. That the Finnish arrow-skiers easily defeated the “lapotnoy” Red Army.

It is clear that any reasonable, objective reasons for the actions of the USSR were completely denied. The war was declared unnecessary, unpopular. Like, there was no objective need to attack “sweet and peaceful” Finland. The point is the personal bloodthirstiness of Joseph Stalin, the Soviet dictator. There was no logic in the actions of the "criminal Stalinist regime". However, this is obvious lies and enemy propaganda aimed at destroying the Russian historical memory. It is enough to recall the history of Finland.


At the forefront of the Soviet position near Vyborg. Photo source: http://waralbum.ru/


The state created by the Russians


As you know, Finnish tribes never had their own statehood. Some Finnish tribes became part of the Russian state (for example, Izhora), or were part of the Russian sphere of influence. Other Finnish tribes in the XII - XIV centuries. were gradually conquered by the Swedes and became part of the Swedish kingdom. Moreover, during the period of the weakening of Russia, Sweden also captured a number of territories where Finnish tribes lived, which were previously subordinate to the Russians. Under the rule of Sweden, Finland did not have any autonomy, even cultural. The official language was Swedish. The local nobility spoke Swedish, all educated people, it taught at schools, books were printed. Only ordinary people spoke Finnish. Obviously, in the future, the Finns were waiting for a more complete assimilation and loss of language and culture.

However, the Finns were lucky. Sweden fought with Russia for supremacy in the Baltic. As a result, the Swedes were convinced that in the 1809 year they had to give Finland to Russia. Russian tsars were very generous people, especially to the national suburbs. The Russian empire was not built due to the exploitation of the colonies, like the Western empires, but due to the “internal colonization” of the Russian people. The Russians paid for (including blood) the civilizational, spiritual and material take-off of the national suburbs, including Finland. The Grand Duchy of Finland was created. For 100 with a small stay in Russia from the former deaf Swedish province of Finland, through the efforts of the Russian government, it actually became an autonomous state with all the necessary attributes. The Grand Duchy had its own authorities, a monetary unit, a post office, customs, did not pay taxes to the general treasury, and did not give soldiers to the army. The taxes collected in the principality were spent only on local needs. The development of Finland was financed from the capital. Finnish has become the state language. All posts in the Finnish administration, except for the position of Governor General, were held by local natives. The imperial authorities tried not to interfere in local affairs.

There was no religious oppression of local Protestants. The Orthodox Church practically did not conduct missionary activity in the Grand Duchy. The policy of Russification was also not actually carried out. The Russians were not even allowed to move to the Grand Duchy. Moreover, Russians living in Finland were in an unequal position compared to the locals. Some restrictions appeared only under the emperors Alexander III and Nicholas II, when Finnish separatism began to develop, and Finland, by virtue of its autonomy, became the nest of various Russian revolutionaries. And these measures were belated and weak.

Thus, the Finns lived in the Russian “prison of peoples” very well and much better than the Russians themselves. In addition, Petersburg also slaughtered zemlytsev to Finland. In 1811, the Vyborg province was transferred to the Grand Duchy, which included lands that Russia conquered from Sweden and received under the peace agreements of 1721 and 1743. This decision was very unreasonable in terms of military strategy - the administrative border of Finland came close to Petersburg (the then capital of Russia). But then it didn’t occur to the Russian tsars that once Finland would be an independent, and even a hostile state. Russian rulers naively thought that the population of the new territories would be infinitely grateful to them for various gifts and would forever remain faithful to the throne.

"The strong pillow of St. Petersburg"


Russia needed Finland for the defense of St. Petersburg and the northwestern borders of the state. For this, the Russians were cut with the Swedes even before the creation of the Russian Empire. And the Romanov empire fought four times with Sweden to protect the metropolitan area. The Gulf of Finland is the western gate of St. Petersburg. The southern coast is flat and low, inconvenient for the construction of fortresses and batteries. The Finnish coast is rugged with many islands and islets (skerries). It is convenient to build coastal fortifications here. Here is a unique skerry fairway along which the enemy fleet could go from Sweden to Kronstadt itself. Therefore, the Russian emperor Alexander the First said that Finland should become a "strong pillow of St. Petersburg."

Russia has invested many millions of rubles to strengthen the Finnish coast. Russian fortresses did not interfere with the Finnish population, as they were built on stony lands unsuitable for agriculture. But the Russian army and navy earned thousands of Finns. Russian military bases in Finland greatly helped the development of the economy of the Grand Duchy. Not to mention the fact that Russian officers, soldiers and sailors annually left significant amounts in Finnish shops, shops, etc. In addition, at the shipyards Abo, Bjarneborg, Helsingfors and others for the Baltic fleet over the course of a century, hundreds of military and auxiliary vessels were built. Finnish shipbuilders are well enriched on this.

During World War I, Finland was well enriched by military orders and smuggling. There was no Russian customs here and various goods were transported through the principality. Entente countries imposed an economic blockade on Germany; as a result, food supply difficulties began there. Finnish agricultural products came in handy here. Before the war, Finland supplied butter, cheese and other products to the central Russian provinces, and imported bread. With the outbreak of the war, the supply of food products to Russia was seriously reduced, and the import of bread into Finland, on the contrary, increased significantly. Russian grain and Finnish products went to Germany in transit through neutral Sweden (the Swedes also warmed their hands well in the war). The gendarmerie, border guards and military counterintelligence constantly reported this to the tsarist government. It got to the point that England and France in the autumn of the 1915 year demanded that the tsar stop supplying food and other goods to Germany through Sweden. However, St. Petersburg did not quarrel with Sweden, fearing its transition to the side of Germany. As a result, the “Swedish transit” flourished and brought huge profits to the Swedish and Finnish businessmen.

In 1909, the construction of two powerful forts began: on the southern shore of the bay near the village of Krasnaya Gorka, construction of Fort Alekseyevsky was started, on the northern shore on the cape near the village of Ino - Fort Nikolaevsky. Forts were put into operation at the end of the 1914 year. In 1915, the Russians began to equip the Abo-Åland position (it became part of the Peter the Great Fortress). By December 1917, the number of coastal and field implements in Finland increased even more. Part of the artillery of the Kronstadt and Vladivostok fortresses (it was practically disarmed in peace with Japan and the war with Germany), cannons purchased from Japan, and even ship guns from the disarmed Amur Flotilla were brought to Finnish territory. Almost all this wealth and ammunition, equipment went to the Finns. So Finland inherited a powerful arsenal, which in power exceeded the artillery of several European states at once.

Finnish gratitude to Russia


Raised and nurtured with the full support and connivance of the Russian government, the Finnish nationalist elite well “thanked” Russia. In December 1917, the Sejm proclaimed Finland an independent state. The Soviet government recognized the independence of Finland. The Council of People's Commissars did not know that the head of the Finnish Senate (government) Swinhuvud entered into negotiations with the Germans. That Finnish nationalists are preparing for war by sending all the gold of the Finnish Bank to the north of the country.

In January 1918, a revolution began in Finland. She grew into a civil war, where the red and white Finns fought. The Reds had every chance to take up, as they relied on the most industrialized cities of the south, military factories, in their hands were the main arsenals of the former Russian imperial army. However, the leadership of the Reds adhered to defensive tactics. Therefore, in February - March 1918, the war assumed a positional character without a solid front line, where the red and white confronted each other near settlements and important communications.

The passivity of the Red Finns led to their defeat. The whites (nationalists, liberals and the bourgeoisie) called on the Germans for help. As far back as January 1918, Germany sent a jaeger battalion to Sweden near the city of Vasa, which had previously fought with the Russians in the Baltic. Belofin units began to train dozens of Swedish officers. In April 1918, the Germans landed on the Hanko Peninsula - the Baltic Division under the command of von der Goltz (12 thousand soldiers). Another German landing was landed near the city of Lovisa. With the help of well-armed and trained Germans, the White Finns took up. On 14 of April the Germans captured Helsinki (Helsingfors), on 29 of April Vyborg fell. In May, the war was over.

White unleashed terror. Thousands of people were executed, thousands died in concentration camps. The total number of people thrown into prisons and camps has reached 90 thousand people. For comparison: during the hostilities, white finns lost 3,1 thousand people, and red ones - 3,4 thousand people. In addition to the Red supporters, the Russian community of Finland fell under the blows. The Russians were exterminated and expelled without any distinction, officers, their families, soldiers, students, old people, women, all Russians in general. If the Red Finns were destroyed on a class basis, then the Russians - on a national basis. That is, it was ethnic genocide.

The White Finns began to attack against the Russians at the beginning of the 1918 year. They attacked units of the Russian army located in Finland, with the aim of capturing weapons, ammunition, ammunition. Then these attacks in Finland were justified by the support of the Soviet government of the Finnish Socialist Workers Republic. But this accusation is clearly strained. Russian troops in Finland lost their combat readiness in the fall of the 1917 year, and did not intend to participate in the local unrest, only dreamed of quietly leaving for Russia. For the most part, officers were negative towards the Bolsheviks, and were not going to help the Red Finns. The Soviet government, although sympathizing with the Red Finns, declared neutrality, fearing Germany. The Bolsheviks could not even protect the Russian officers and soldiers remaining in Finland, military equipment belonging to the Russian army.

At the same time, the Finns made a massive robbery of the Russian community and Russian state and military property. In the very first days after the capture of Helsingfors, Abo, Vyborg and other cities, the property of Russian merchants and entrepreneurs was confiscated. The Finns captured all private Russian ships (warships were defended by the Germans in their interests). The White Finns seized Russian state property for many billions of gold rubles (still pre-war).

The Germans and their local supporters planned to establish a monarchy in Finland with a German prince at their head. In October 1918, Parliament elected Frederick Karl as King of Hesse-Kassel. Finland was to become the protectors of the Second Reich. However, in November, a revolution took place in Germany. Germany surrendered and lost the world war. Thus, the German king on the Finnish throne became inappropriate. German-sympathetic Finnish government was dissolved. Pressure from the Entente forced the new government to ask the Hessian prince for abdication. In December 1918, Frederick Karl of Hesse abdicated the throne, and German troops were evacuated from Finland.


General Mannerheim, Commander of the Finnish Army, receives German General von der Goltz and German officers in Helsingfors (Helsinki) in May 1918. To the right of Mannerheim, the head of the Finnish government, Swinhuvud


Great Finland Project


Not satisfied with the secession from Russia, Finnish nationalists and capitalists tried to take advantage of the Russian Troubles and grab Russian land. Back in February 1918, the commander-in-chief of the Finnish army, General Mannerheim, stated that "he will not put his sword into the scabbard until he is freed from the Bolsheviks East Karelia." In March, Mannerheim approved a plan for the seizure of Russian territory to the line White Sea - Lake Onega - Svir River - Lake Ladoga. Finland also claimed the region of Pechengi and the Kola Peninsula. Petrograd was to receive the status of a “free city” like Danzig. Finnish radicals generally dreamed of a “Great Finland” with the inclusion of the entire Russian North, Arkhangelsk, Vologda and all the way to the Northern Urals.

The objectives of the Finnish invasion of Karelia and the Kola Peninsula were not only territorial acquisitions. The Finns knew that in Murmansk during the World War, huge stockpiles of weapons, ammunition, various military equipment, equipment, and food were accumulated. The Entente delivered all this by sea. Before the revolution, the tsarist government could not take everything out, and then chaos swept the country and export was stopped.

The Finnish command ordered the volunteer units to speak out for the conquest of East Karelia. 15 May 1918, the Finnish government declared war on Soviet Russia. However, thanks to the intervention of Berlin, which concluded the Peace of Brest with the RSFSR and was not at that time interested in the Soviet-Finnish war, until the fall of 1918, the Finns did not wage war. Germany ultimately banned the Finns from attacking Petrograd. The Finnish hawks had to come to terms with this for a while. Too zealous Mannerheim was even temporarily dismissed. It is clear that the Finns' decision was influenced not only by the position of Berlin, but by the strength of the Reds in the Petrograd region. Significant forces of the Red Army were concentrated on the Karelian Isthmus; the Red Baltic Fleet, which could inflict heavy blows on the right flank of the Finnish army advancing on Petrograd, was a serious argument. The Bolsheviks created military flotillas on Lake Ladoga and Onega.

In the summer of 1918, Finland and Soviet Russia negotiated peace terms. In July, the Finnish General Staff prepared a project to transfer the Finnish border on the Karelian Isthmus from Petrograd in exchange for generous compensation by the territory of East Karelia. This project was approved by the Germans. At its core, this plan repeated the same thing that Stalin would propose to Finland in 1939. However, on 21 in August at the talks in Berlin, the Finns refused to conclude an agreement with Russia. They wanted more.

The situation radically changed after the defeat of the Germans in World War II. The Finnish authorities sharply revised their foreign policy and made a bet on the Entente. The Finns invited the British to send a fleet to the Baltic Sea. The cooperation of Finland and the Entente began, directed against Soviet Russia. In mid-October of 1918, Finnish troops captured Rebolsky parish. In January 1919, the Porosozersky volost was occupied. In April 1919, the so-called offensive began. Olonets volunteer army. Having captured part of South Karelia, including Olonets, the Finnish troops approached Petrozavodsk. However, in the summer, Soviet troops defeated the enemy and knocked him out of our territory. In the fall of 1919, Finnish troops again launched an attack on Petrozavodsk, but were defeated at the end of September.

In July 1920, the Soviet troops knocked out Finnish forces from the territory of Karelia, except for the Rebolsky and Porosozersky volosts. After that, the Finnish side agreed to negotiations. On October 14 of 1920, the Tartu Peace Treaty was concluded between the RSFSR and Finland. Russia ceded to Finland the entire Pechenga region (Petsamo) in the Arctic, also the western part of the Rybachy peninsula, and most of the Sredny peninsula. The volosts occupied by Finnish troops in East Karelia were returning to Soviet Russia.

Nevertheless, Helsinki did not intend to abandon plans to create a “Great Finland”. Taking advantage of the fact that Moscow made a promise for two years not to contain troops on the territory of the Rebolsky and Porosozersky volosts, except for border guards and customs officers, the Finnish government again tried to solve the Karelian issue by force. In the autumn of 1921, an interim Karelian committee was created, which began to form "forest detachments" and gave a signal to the invasion of Finnish troops. To repulse the enemy by the end of December, the Soviet authorities concentrated 8,5 thousand people in Karelia. By the beginning of January 1922, Soviet troops defeated the main enemy group and in early February took the military-political center of the Karelian committee - Ukhta. By mid-February 1922, the territory of Karelia was completely liberated. This was the end of hostilities.

To be continued ...
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  1. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 05: 42 New
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    try to turn the story with wool inside. and Stalin is a vampire, and Mannerheim is a patriot, and soon the adik will be a hero. they say they fought against the "newbie". further quote from Lavrov.
    1. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 06: 06 New
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      according to the photo: bayonets are attached to the “mosinka”, so they are standing very close, close combat, hand-to-hand fighting, good photography were not ruled out.
      1. Yuriy_999 28 November 2019 08: 56 New
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        As far as I remember, the bayonet is always attached to the mosquito. She even shot with a bayonet.
        1. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 09: 24 New
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          Quote: Yuri_999
          As far as I remember, the bayonet is always attached to the mosquito. She even shot with a bayonet.

          yes it’s understandable, \ weight distribution and all that, but the bayonet was inserted only to the "neighbor".
          1. Fitter65 28 November 2019 12: 30 New
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            Quote: Aerodrome
            Quote: Yuri_999
            As far as I remember, the bayonet is always attached to the mosquito. She even shot with a bayonet.

            yes it’s understandable, \ weight distribution and all that, but the bayonet was inserted only to the "neighbor".

            It has been said more than once at VO; in various articles and monographs it has been written many times about an attached bayonet on a mosquito. In the ammunition of the infantryman there was neither a cover, nor a scabbard, nor any other device for carrying the bayonet in an open form. If you look at various descriptions, then there is a pomegranate bag, there are cartridge pouches, a cracker, a gas mask, a cover for a flask and a small sapper blade, everything is there, but there is nothing for the bayonet, therefore it is almost always in a fastened state.
            1. Pushkar 29 November 2019 23: 48 New
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              Вот вам ножны https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=http%3A%2F%2Fguns.allzip.org%2Ftopic%2F288%2F1956350.html&psig=AOvVaw1Zq-6eGzeZXvEOTEpgHu9x&ust=1575146750285000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCLjuwYalkOYCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAU
          2. not main 29 November 2019 00: 36 New
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            Quote: Aerodrome
            Quote: Yuri_999
            As far as I remember, the bayonet is always attached to the mosquito. She even shot with a bayonet.

            yes it’s understandable, \ weight distribution and all that, but the bayonet was inserted only to the "neighbor".

            Right Yuri_999! Mosinka was shooting with a bayonet! Without a bayonet, this is another ballistics!
      2. Dr. Hub 2 December 2019 14: 12 New
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        Is not a fact. Mosinka with a bayonet was shooting. And the fire with an attached bayonet was fought
    2. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 06: 58 New
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      Airfield (Airfield)
      try to turn the story with wool inside. and Stalin is a vampire, and Mannerheim is a patriot, and soon the adik will be a hero. they say they fought against the "newbie". further quote from Lavrov.
      Well, they’re not just trying. An indoctrination of their own population is underway in order to prove that everything that the USSR did and created is a great evil, and therefore Russia, as the legal successor of the USSR, must pay for this evil. And if we refuse to pay, then ... options are possible, but for any we are bad and of course worthy of complete destruction. The main thing is to hammer it into the brains, by the way not so smart, of your fellow citizens, so that they more easily agree to be another cannon fodder. Although it is unlikely that in the presence of nuclear weapons they will unleash a war in the literal sense. It is more likely that they will continue to ruin us from within, including on the basis of history. Raise kolsurengoy from our children so that they will forever repent, repent and pay, pay and do not resent.
      Well, by the way, not without the help of our rulers, they succeed. And memorial plaques to Mannerheim, monuments to Kolchak and Krasnov, monuments to Italian arrows and other freaks, like a monument to the “great Russian writer” Solzhenitsyn, as well as recognition and repentance for Katyn and so on, all this fits into this outline, including the education system . The main thing now is to wait until our generation, which still remembers its fighting grandfathers, dies out, and then do what you want and rewrite history as you like. That’s what is scary.
      Therefore, I will take my children on May 1 and 9 under the flag of the USSR to rallies and other events, as well as to the grave of my grandfather and grandmother, so that they remember and pass on to their children, only this way we can not miss this generation.
      1. Basil50 28 November 2019 07: 37 New
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        The author was embarrassed to write that the Finns, after registering * independence * immediately began with the assassination of RUSSIANs in the occupied territories.
        Fina 4 (four) times officially declared war on the SOVIET UNION. All wars began with provocations on the border and then with military operations. As soon as they received an answer, they immediately demanded help from the * world community *. At the conclusion of the peace, the Finns, in order to comply with the legality of a settlement, were forced to declare war first. Only in 1941, the Finns were so bold that they dared to declare war on the fourth day of military operations against the SOVIET UNION.
        By the way, military provocations at the border were carried out constantly. Only after 1945 did the Finns stop conducting military provocations, but they lured smugglers up to the present.
        1. Octopus 28 November 2019 10: 56 New
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          Quote: Vasily50
          Fina 4 (four) times officially declared war on the SOVIET UNION

          )))
          Once, in the 41st.
          The USSR appeared in the 22nd, the first two wars were with the RSFSR. There was no second war at the interstate level at all, so there were some reenactors and a struggle for the rights of Finnish speakers. In the 39th, the Finns did not need to declare war, the USSR managed it itself.
        2. ROBIN-SON 8 December 2019 00: 05 New
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          Vyborg massacre. The Germans were worse. And if it were not for the built UR after 39 "Stalin's line" that did not allow them to advance from the captured Sestroretsk to Leningrad, the German kts would be pioneer camps compared to the Finnish ones. Many inhabitants of Leningrad Oblast and Leningrad would be slaughtered. No wonder the Red Finns called Schutzkor butchers.
          By the way, Lenin left the Red Finns to their fate. When our fleet left them to Finland, the captains of the auxiliary fleet, it was forbidden to evacuate the Finnish red fighters. Dark story, maybe someone knows why? There are many secrets.
      2. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 08: 44 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        Airfield (Airfield)
        try to turn the story with wool inside. and Stalin is a vampire, and Mannerheim is a patriot, and soon the adik will be a hero. they say they fought against the "newbie". further quote from Lavrov.
        Well, they’re not just trying. An indoctrination of their own population is underway in order to prove that everything that the USSR did and created is a great evil, and therefore Russia, as the legal successor of the USSR, must pay for this evil. And if we refuse to pay, then ... options are possible, but for any we are bad and of course worthy of complete destruction. The main thing is to hammer it into the brains, by the way not so smart, of your fellow citizens, so that they more easily agree to be another cannon fodder. Although it is unlikely that in the presence of nuclear weapons they will unleash a war in the literal sense. It is more likely that they will continue to ruin us from within, including on the basis of history. Raise kolsurengoy from our children so that they will forever repent, repent and pay, pay and do not resent.
        Well, by the way, not without the help of our rulers, they succeed. And memorial plaques to Mannerheim, monuments to Kolchak and Krasnov, monuments to Italian arrows and other freaks, like a monument to the “great Russian writer” Solzhenitsyn, as well as recognition and repentance for Katyn and so on, all this fits into this outline, including the education system . The main thing now is to wait until our generation, which still remembers its fighting grandfathers, dies out, and then do what you want and rewrite history as you like. That’s what is scary.
        Therefore, I will take my children on May 1 and 9 under the flag of the USSR to rallies and other events, as well as to the grave of my grandfather and grandmother, so that they remember and pass on to their children, only this way we can not miss this generation.

        hi
      3. Alexy 28 November 2019 21: 23 New
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        What does it mean to educate our children ??? I bring up my children
      4. tatarin1972 29 November 2019 12: 39 New
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        Some have already been processed, they walk in pots, jump, and yell that they dug up the sea and poured mountains.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. yargrad 5 March 2020 11: 06 New
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        I have long decided for myself that it’s worth worrying only if we lose to someone. And if we hit on the "tower" - this is correct and there is absolutely nothing to complex about.
    3. Civil 28 November 2019 07: 47 New
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      The impudent Finns refused. Fools do not know their happiness. And now they are overlaid with high patches and a pension of 1600 euros. Everyone needs poverty, snickering without a master's boot!
      1. knn54 28 November 2019 08: 20 New
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        An important fact is the incitement of the West. Finland was waiting for help from the British and French. But the Swedes agreed to let in only volunteers, not regular units.
        The Finns (not without Western support) proposed to Trotsky to head the so-called émigré anti-Bolshevik government. Many leaflets were printed to the soldiers of the Red Army with a call to desert and join the ranks of the fighters against the Stalinist regime.
        According to the story of one of the NKVD officers (in the mid-60s), prisoners of war in 1940 were "filtered" more carefully than even.
        during World War II ..
        Yes, and with Lev Borisovich decided not to delay
        1. Civil 28 November 2019 08: 25 New
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          Quote: knn54
          ..
          Yes, and with Lev Borisovich decided not to delay

          Leiba Dividovich Bronstein (Trotsky)
        2. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 08: 33 New
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          knn54 (Nikolai)
          The Finns (not without Western support) suggested Trotsky to lead the so-called emigrant anti-Bolshevik government.
          That's just because of this they should have been rolled into the asphalt! Stalin was just kind in the literal sense. For what the Finns, Romanians, Hungarians did on the territory of the USSR during the Second World War, their country should be wiped off the face of the earth, but we are not Nazis, we are good. The king of Romania was even awarded the highest order of the USSR.
          And in my family, my cousin uncle, at that time a five-year-old boy, two Romanians almost shot the pleasure for the sake of the good Germans saved. During the occupation in our Don, the Romanians atrocities were cleaner than the Germans. True, the Germans did not particularly consider them as people.
        3. S-400 2 December 2019 13: 04 New
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          Really not ashamed to write this, no?
          And nothing that, unlike Finland, edge
          Quote: knn54
          waiting for help from the British and French
          Stalin just received help from England and the USA. Those. the fact that we defeated fascist Germany with the help of the West (without any quotation marks) is normal, but the fact that Finland was counting on help from the British and French when a real aggression by the enemy was committed against it, which in every sense was an order of magnitude more powerful , it is a crime.
          Well done, why, cheating tricks when immersed in history - this is our everything :(
          1. Jager 7 February 2020 17: 58 New
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            If not Finnish, Leningrad would have been taken. What this would lead to is not worth explaining. Or do you think you would drink Bavarian beer now?
            Yes, they fought stupidly. But no one has ever before or after stormed at - 40 in the mountainous and wooded areas, not even lines, but fortified positional areas. This is not the Maginot Line, there were no detours there.
      2. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 08: 54 New
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        Quote: Civil
        Sassy Finns

        yeah .. like plump, so in St. Petersburg, and if left - in our direction ... handsome cho ...
        1. S-400 2 December 2019 12: 59 New
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          Why did you spit a lot? Are you all "spoiled" right? And is it that we ate 11% of the territory from them, and they with us in the “Winter War” and “Continuation War”, in total, about 120 thousand were only lost by the dead? Despite the fact that both times (if we cast out the mossy agitprop fairy tales, which the author decided to remind us for some reason), we attacked them. Should they forget this and go fraternize with us?
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. TokarevT 28 November 2019 17: 28 New
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        Why in poverty? Dead people do not need rags.
    4. RUSS 28 November 2019 10: 59 New
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      Quote: Aerodrome
      try to turn the story with wool inside. and Stalin is a vampire

      This is not so, on the contrary, from everywhere everywhere there is a justification of the Stalinist repressions, the assessment of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact has been revised, the causes of the Soviet-Finnish War, etc.
      1. Nagaibak 28 November 2019 11: 15 New
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        RUSS "there is an excuse for Stalinist repression"
        I think this is not an excuse for Stalinist repression. And the struggle against those views on them which the Svanidze and Volkogonovs imposed on the whole country. This is more true for millions of victims of repression. And not moral assessments.
        RUSS "revised assessment of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact."
        Why is the pact bad? Great document.
        RUSS "Revised the causes of the Soviet-Finnish war"
        And then what have you reviewed?
        In general, the last two points made everything right. I don’t know what you don’t like. Borders pushed back, time won, positions strengthened. And if these events were not German tanks would start from near Minsk and Narva. And the Finnish border was 30 km from St. Petersburg. The Finns would attack anyone along with the Germans. Would there be a winter war or would it not be.
        1. Octopus 28 November 2019 13: 58 New
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          Quote: Nagaibak
          This is more true for millions of victims of repression. And not moral assessments.

          Uh, no.
          Yezhov bastard! Decayed man. Calling him at the People's Commissariat - they say: he left for the Central Committee. You call the Central Committee - they say: he left for work. You send to his house - it turns out, lies dead drunk on the bed. He killed many innocents. We shot him for it

          The fact that Comrade Stalin was in many respects right when he fought against looters and creaks (Tupolev, Korolev, etc.) is a position actively presented, including at the Military District. Yes, there were some excesses, here Yezhov, in particular, went too far, but Yezhov was shot in the case. Yezhov was a liberal and a supporter of the State Department, this can be seen both in the way of life (quote above) and in gender preferences.
          Regarding his other arts, collectivization, relocations, etc., the History section also has a relative consensus, they say, not Stalin, such times. Stalin did everything for ordinary people that he could.
          Quote: Nagaibak
          Why is the pact bad? Great document.

          The fact that Comrade Stalin did not guess a little. Worse than Chamberlain, but better than Deladier.
          Quote: Nagaibak
          And then what have you reviewed?

          So Samsonov writes / will write that he did the right thing. And before, from the 60s, they said either the demon beguiled Comrade Stalin, or the cult of personality, or something, some kind of troubled story, let's not.
          Quote: Nagaibak
          I don't know what you don't like

          I do not like that quite a few people died. Although this is a purely liberal point of view.
          Quote: Nagaibak
          The Finns would attack anyone with the Germans

          Like the Finns WOULD attacked - a literary question. But in real history, the USSR attacked. By the 41st year there were all sorts of topics: who first started around the Hanko base and the Kriegsmarine’s actions in Finnish guards, but formally the USSR began to bomb Finnish cities, and not vice versa.
          1. Nagaibak 28 November 2019 16: 41 New
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            Octopus
            "Uh, no."
            Come on.))))
            Octopus "The fact that Comrade Stalin did not guess a little. Worse than Chamberlain, but better than Deladier."
            Nonsense. He guessed right. I am specifically talking about the division of Poland and the division of spheres of influence with Hitler.
            Octopus "I do not like that quite a few people died. Although this is a purely liberal point of view."
            If you count how much we lost during the years of the collapse of the USSR and liberal reforms, so terrible Stalin would be a good, harmless grandfather. laughing Therefore, liberals are Honduras.
            Octopus "How would the Finns attack - a literary question."
            For you, maybe literary. I have no doubt. Finns can be treated differently. But in the occupied territory of the USSR, they organized camps for Russians, and not vice versa.
            1. Octopus 28 November 2019 17: 13 New
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              Quote: Nagaibak
              Nonsense. He guessed right. I am specifically talking about the division of Poland and the division of spheres of influence with Hitler.

              That's what I'm talking about. The continuation of the banquet was not that successful for the Soviet people, what do you think?
              Quote: Nagaibak
              how much have we lost over the years of the collapse of the USSR and liberal reforms

              You really do not see the difference between people who were drunk, people who were shot by bandits, and people who were shot by their native Soviet power?
              Quote: Nagaibak
              no doubt about me

              You see, your doubts are your business. And who bombed whom is a historical fact.
              Quote: Nagaibak
              But in the occupied territory of the USSR, they organized camps for Russians, and not vice versa.

              Is it you that there were no Finns in the Soviet camps? Strong statement.
              1. Nagaibak 28 November 2019 18: 32 New
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                Octopus "And I'm talking about the same thing. The continuation of the banquet was not that successful for the Soviet people, what do you think?"
                What is the continuation of the banquet? For you, an attack on our country is a holiday?)))
                Octopus "You really do not see the difference between people who were drunk, people who were shot by bandits, and people who were shot by their native Soviet power ?."
                Have you written down all the people who were drunk? In your opinion, then only drunks were dying?
                Octopus "You see, your doubts are your business. And who bombed whom is a historical fact."
                You see, in the choice on which side I should be, I have no doubt. My country is in any right.)))) Whether you like it or not. Hit first so it was necessary. It is you who, having post-war knowledge, can indulge in thought and sprinkle ashes on his head.))))
                Octopus "Is that to say that there were no Finns in the Soviet camps? A strong statement."
                Well, tell me how many civilians (not prisoners of war) of Finnish citizens were in our camps. And in response, I’ll name how the Finns frolic in our country, how many of our people died in their camps. Will you justify them?))))
                1. Octopus 28 November 2019 19: 14 New
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                  Quote: Nagaibak
                  In your opinion, then only drunks were dying?

                  Everyone died the same way more or less. But few people were actively helped by the state.
                  Quote: Nagaibak
                  Hit first so it was necessary.

                  Yes, yes, great. I myself am close to these positions. A little clarification, do you spread this idea to, I don’t know, Germans?
                  Quote: Nagaibak
                  Well, tell me how many civilians (not prisoners of war) of Finnish citizens were in our camps. And in response, I’ll name how the Finns frolic in our country, how many of our people died in their camps

                  Where will they come from in your camps if the USSR did not bring Soviet power to Finland for a number of reasons?
                  For Finns, arithmetic is simple: 26 thousand dead, 70 thousand common, residents of the second-largest Finnish city (Finnish Leningrad, yes) were expelled from their homes without exception, at a time when the USSR was right in any way. Instead, about 18 thousand dead in the Finnish camps in 41-44 years.
                  Quote: Nagaibak
                  You will justify them

                  Finns do not need excuses.
                  I do not believe that piece Russia we lost, - This is the current Finland. You can’t lie to yourself, Russia in 1914 lagged far behind the VKF, strangely enough it may sound to people not on the topic.

                  But hardly anyone will argue that all these terrible decades of the twentieth century, their exploits, their crimes, their sweat, blood and tears - were not in vain.
                  1. Nagaibak 28 November 2019 20: 05 New
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                    Octopus "Everyone was dying the same way, more or less. But few people were actively helped by the state in this."
                    Well, yes, yes, yes, left without funds previously robbed and quit surviving as necessary. This is not an active part.)))
                    Octopus "Yes, yes, fine. I myself am close to these positions. A little clarification, are you spreading this idea to, I don’t know, Germans?"
                    Yes, no matter who.)))) The Germans warned us in the deployment if this tells you something.
                    About the Finnish camps ... people were specifically destroyed. This is the first. Losses of civilians 956 people. 26 thousand dead are soldiers. This is their share of the dying they swore.
                    What lag are you talking about? They nodded with them. They enjoyed all the privileges of the empire, and kept the entire exhaust for themselves.))) They even had their own customs.)))
                    1. Octopus 28 November 2019 20: 25 New
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                      Quote: Nagaibak
                      Well, yes, yes, yes, left without funds previously robbed and quit surviving as necessary

                      Do not value a good attitude. Under Comrade Stalin, few were thrown alive, if you know what I mean.
                      Quote: Nagaibak
                      Yes, no matter what

                      Very well. Then your resentment towards the Finns somehow looks strange, no?
                      Quote: Nagaibak
                      This is their share of the dying they swore.

                      This is why all of a sudden you, right-winged, pinned into a foreign country and decide there, whose share there is to die? When hybrid Finns assisted Finnish-speaking supporters of the federalization of the RSFSR of the 21st year - then yes, your logic is suitable for them. On the contrary - no longer
                      Quote: Nagaibak
                      What lag are you talking about?

                      The lag in parliamentarism - by 40 years, in higher education - by 115 years, and in understanding oneself as a European nation, without any special ways there - forever, most likely.
                      1. Nagaibak 29 November 2019 06: 36 New
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                        Octopus "Do not value a good relationship. Under Comrade Stalin, few people were left alive if you know what I mean."
                        Do you think it's better to die in torment? And then the figures of the Stalinist repressions are more or less known. But the consequences of the 1991 coup, I think, are waiting for their impartial assessment. In all its beauty and fullness.
                        Octopus "Then your offense at the Finns somehow looks strange, no."
                        What a grudge? They purposefully destroyed the Russians by clearing the territory for themselves. We did not do this. Finnish refugees left Vyborg? Nobody left them in the camps or drove them away.
                        Octopus "On the contrary - no longer"
                        My logic is fine with everything. And who told you that Vyborg is a Finnish city?))))
                        Octopus "On the lag in parliamentarism - by 40 years, in higher education - by 115 years, and in understanding itself as a European nation, without any special ways there - forever, most likely."
                        Parliamentarism is an abusive word.))) Higher education?))) Do you mean Swedish universities?))) Maybe. Understanding the European nation? - Do not tell. Russia is not Europe. Europeans are not needed for nothing.))) If you do not have enough democracy, what are you tormenting here?)))) In this barbaric country backward from European standards.)))) Go there and they will appreciate you.))))
                      2. Octopus 29 November 2019 14: 52 New
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                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        Do you think it's better to die in torment?

                        Oh you have to. You see, I found the terrible 90s, and for some reason I did not die in torment, although I know what $ 50 / month per family is. Moreover, I venture to admit that my terrible 90s were quite good by the standards of the 30s. It is scary to say that they were not bad by the standards of 2019, and not only because they stood better. So I take the talk about the 30s as the 90s, only with industrialization, nervously.
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        purposefully destroyed the Russians by clearing the territory for themselves. We did not do this.

                        At this point, it is better to add an apology to Ramzan Akhmatovich. Just in case.
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        My logic is fine with everything

                        No. You will not believe it, but there is a difference between an aggressive and a defensive war.
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        Who told you that Vyborg is a Finnish city?

                        While the Finns lived there, it was Finnish. It is always very easy to determine.
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        Parliamentarism is an abusive word

                        Yes yes
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        in view of the Swedish universities

                        Yeah. One of them is in Turku, now it is Helsinki.
                        By the way, the first Russian university, if you are not in the know, is not Moscow State University, but Derptsky, also Swedish. He became Russian along with Derpt proper, but the professors instantly invented a tractor to them. Piglet Petra. So Peter, by the way, Alekseevich ensured a breakthrough in technological progress.
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        Russia is not Europe.

                        I absolutely agree with you, I’m saying this to various liberals. Why, I ask, do you liberals consider Estonia to be a normal post-Soviet state? The normal state is Turkmenistan. So everything is fine in Russia, it used to be abnormal.
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        Go there

                        It was very important for me to hear your opinion, thank you.
                      3. Nagaibak 29 November 2019 18: 45 New
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                        Octopus "So the talk that the 30s is like the 90s, only with industrialization, I take it nervously."
                        About the 90s, add to the victims of the reforms killed in international wars and criminal showdowns. I’ll say about your nerves ....)))) And you don’t be nervous, everything is fine. People with liberal views are all sort of nervous.))))
                        Octopus "At this point, it’s better to add an apology to Ramzan Akhmatovich. Just in case."
                        Well, are you ready to ask everyone for forgiveness from the Poles to the Finns. Well, you have the liberals' love for repentance, so repent to your health.)))
                        Octopus "While the Finns lived there - it was Finnish. It is always very easy to determine." In the Nishtad peace, he was Russian as well as part of the Baltic.))))
                        Octopus "Yeah. One of them is in Turku, now it's Helsinki.
                        By the way, the first Russian university, if you aren’t in the know - not Moscow State University, but Derpt, also like Swedish. "
                        Consequently, the Finns are not particularly advanced in education compared to the Russians?))))
                        Octopus "but the professors instantly invented the Peter Piglet tractor. So Peter, by the way, Alekseevich provided a breakthrough in technological progress."
                        The professor stupidly dumped in Sweden. I don’t know why Peter didn’t please you.)))
                        Octopus "I absolutely agree with you, I’m saying this myself to various liberals."
                        You are a liberal for me, and these (which you are addressing) are completely finished to see.)))))
                        Octopus "So everything is fine in Russia, it used to be abnormal."
                        By and large, everything was always normal in Russia.))))
                        Octopus "It was very important for me to hear your opinion, thank you."
                        I wish you all the same that your dream of emigration from a nightmare Russia would come true and you will find happiness in some sort of democratic and free country.)))). Do not delay this happy moment for all of us. All the best to you.
    5. RUSS 28 November 2019 15: 43 New
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      Quote: Nagaibak
      This is more true for millions of victims of repression.

      It was in the 90s, now they are not talking about millions.
      They say about 600 thousand, but they say they are justified, the same Kisilev to Russia 1 recently said that Stalin is 30% miss and 70% achievement.
      Quote: Nagaibak
      Borders pushed back, time won, positions strengthened.

      That’s what it was all about, there was aggression, and what it was motivated for and covered itself for a second time, but there was a fact of aggression.
      1. Nagaibak 28 November 2019 16: 31 New
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        RUSS "It was in the 90s, now they’re not talking about millions."
        This is already good.
        RUSS "but the fact of aggression was."
        So what. The main thing is that the annexed territories in the Great Patriotic War played a positive role. This justifies the actions of the Soviet leadership that they took to seize these territories.
        1. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 30 New
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          Not capture, but the return of the native Russian lands. And that was just the beginning.
          1. Nagaibak 29 November 2019 06: 23 New
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            meandr51 "Not the capture, but the return of the native Russian lands. And that was only the beginning."
            All right agree with you.
    6. RUSS 28 November 2019 15: 45 New
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      Quote: Nagaibak
      revised assessment of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. "
      Why is the pact bad? Great document.

      Putin previously called the pact criminal, but now he has changed his shoes and says that this is the benefit and success of our diplomacy.
      1. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 33 New
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        Putin comes and goes, but Russia's interests remain. There are a lot of opinions about this pact.
        Politicians act and declare to the extent possible, which changes over time.
      2. Petrograd 29 November 2019 19: 59 New
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        Quote: RUSS
        Quote: Nagaibak
        revised assessment of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. "
        Why is the pact bad? Great document.

        Putin previously called the pact criminal, but now he has changed his shoes and says that this is the benefit and success of our diplomacy.

        Putin said a lot of things and promised ....
  2. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 11: 18 New
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    Quote: RUSS
    RUSS (Maxim) Today, 10:59
    0
    Quote: Aerodrome
    try to turn the story with wool inside. and Stalin is a vampire

    It’s not the other way around.

    like this, maybe the other way around?
    1. RUSS 28 November 2019 15: 44 New
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      Quote: Aerodrome
      like this, maybe the other way around?

      On the contrary, it means there is a quiet Stalinization.
      1. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 29 New
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        If ... Where does the new Stalin come from? Just a wild anti-Soviet affects the interests of the elite of the Russian Federation.
  3. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 28 New
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    One cannot justify or condemn that which did not exist. There is a normal opposition to anti-Soviet provocations and falsifications, since the interests of the Russian Federation suffer from this shaft of lies.
  • RUSS 28 November 2019 15: 30 New
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    Quote: Aerodrome
    try to twist history

    Remember the song of those years - "Take us, Suomi, the beauty,
    In a necklace of transparent lakes! ", Stalin's goal was to get Finland to join the USSR, all Soviet propaganda worked but that we were going to free the Finnish oppressed people.
    1. strannik1985 28 November 2019 15: 53 New
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      Finnish oppressed people

      Sorry, but this is nonsense. After the LM breakthrough, Stalin had no obstacles to the occupation of Finland.
      1. RUSS 28 November 2019 16: 33 New
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        Quote: strannik1985
        After the LM breakthrough, Stalin had no obstacles to the occupation of Finland.

        Stalin did not expect that there would be such a rebuff, plus half of the world turned up against us because of this aggression, did not ride like with Poland.
        1. strannik1985 28 November 2019 18: 10 New
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          So what? The line is broken, the Finns no longer have reserves. "The whole world" swept the USSR with collective defense from Germany back in the summer of 1939, now busy. What is the obstacle?
        2. voyaka uh 28 November 2019 18: 26 New
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          Stalin was shocked by the losses of the Red Army in the Winter War and the incompetence of the command.
          After the Winter War, articles "about the invincible Red Army" disappeared from the Soviet press at once.
          Everyone noticed this, as my dad told me: they knew how to read the press "between the lines."
          And quickly in the spring of 40, the offensive doctrine of the army was replaced by unusual defense plans. Stalin realized that in a military clash with Germany, the USSR did not shine.
          1. strannik1985 28 November 2019 18: 33 New
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            So what? The Mannerheim Line is broken, the Finns do not have reserves, on the side of the Red Army a complete quantitative and qualitative superiority. Germany until the summer of 1940 was busy to the ears. What is the problem?
            1. Octopus 28 November 2019 19: 29 New
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              Quote: strannik1985
              Germany until the summer of 1940 was busy to the ears. What is the problem?

              A lot of problems. It turned out that the liberating army in Finland are not welcome. It turned out that petty Finland already cost the USSR losses (total) in the amount of 1/5 of the pre-war army. Speaking of the army, there were also shot a lot of people without Finns. That such Mannergeinism is expected in Finland that Bandera never dreamed of. That the bloody imperialists perceive the USSR as a 100% ally you yourself know who, and if you yourself know who will be torn, there will be a serious conversation with the USSR. It would be necessary to slow down a little, comrade Stalin thought, to figure out what was happening.

              And after 2 months - May 40th, Dunkirk. At this moment, Comrade Stalin realized that he had really big problems. It was not up to the Finns, for their happiness.
              1. strannik1985 29 November 2019 10: 27 New
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                A lot of problems

                Of this "mass of problems" by February 28, 1940, the USSR was threatened only by partisan activity. Maybe you do not know, but the so-called saboteurs / partisans, etc. in that war, nothing special was shown to the Red Army. Generally.
                As for allied relations, the USSR was rolled back at the Moscow talks in the summer of 1939.
                1. Octopus 29 November 2019 15: 01 New
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                  Quote: strannik1985
                  Of this "mass of problems" by February 28, 1940, the USSR was threatened only by partisan activity

                  Comrade Stalin does not have much time, but there are many unreleased places.
                  Quote: strannik1985
                  but the so-called saboteurs / partisans, etc. in that war for the Red Army did not show anything special

                  Seriously? And I heard another 5 years they were fishing in the forests. Moreover, then there was socialism around, and here around would be Sweden, which, you would not believe, did not consider relations with Finland an intra-Soviet issue.
                  Quote: strannik1985
                  As for the allied relations of the USSR rolled

                  You see, it was about bombing the USSR from the Caucasus. The wise, peace-loving Comrade Stalin was very close to getting a war with Germany and Britain at the same time. Then Soviet historians wrote for 40 years that Churchill came up with this in the 19th year.
                  1. strannik1985 29 November 2019 15: 23 New
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                    Comrade Stalin

                    I mean there were not a couple of weeks for the full occupation of Finland?
                    Seriously?

                    Absolutely. You are referring to losses. Where should the Red Army carry them during the occupation of Finland?
                    Let me remind you, when signing a secret agreement between Estonia, Finland and Sweden, the Swedes pledged to send military personnel with equipment under the guise of volunteers, in fact, they simply "did not notice" the formation of a detachment of real (non-military) volunteers. They were even forbidden to distribute leaflets from sin. After all, the USSR and Sweden can wink
                    You see

                    Any military gestures of the Allies end in May 1940, that is, long before Hitler could pay attention to the USSR. On the contrary, such actions can direct the USSR from a position of neutrality to an alliance with the Third Reich (I remind you that Hitler ordered the development of Barbarossa after the USSR refused to join the military alliance with Germany, Japan and Italy).
                    1. Octopus 29 November 2019 17: 36 New
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                      Quote: strannik1985
                      a couple of weeks for the full occupation of Finland

                      Two weeks. Google how many divisions of the Wehrmacht and the SS the whole war linked Yugoslavia. And again, without a long border with an enemy state (Sweden after that is an enemy of the USSR without options).
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Where should the Red Army carry them during the occupation of Finland?

                      Everywhere.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Swedes pledged to send military personnel with equipment disguised as volunteers

                      Where is this grass coming from?
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      After all, the USSR and Sweden can

                      Can not. Sweden is German ore, German bearings and German transit to Norway. Comrade Stalin is absolutely not needed there.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Any allied military movements end in May 1940,

                      Who knew in advance when what would begin, when what would end.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      can send the USSR from a position of neutrality to an alliance with the Third Reich

                      Neutrality, speak?
                    2. strannik1985 29 November 2019 21: 31 New
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                      Fortnight

                      Stalin did not know about this.
                      Everywhere

                      Ie nowhere, because the conditions of the Soviet-Finnish war are no more.
                      Where is this grass coming from?

                      Kurushin M.Yu. "Baltic-Scandinavian Alliance against the Soviets."
                      Can not.

                      Even as it can. Either agree or the Wehrmacht will be in Sweden. In any case, the massive support of the partisan movement until June 22, 1941 can be forgotten.
                      Neutrality, speak?

                      Exactly.
                    3. Octopus 29 November 2019 22: 53 New
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                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Stalin did not know about it

                      You do not make a fool from Comrade Stalin. What is a civil war - he knew.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      The Soviet-Finnish war is no more.

                      Why would this be? Yugoslavia in 41-45 as it were, but the war as it were.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Kurushin M.Yu

                      People who write "according to secret documents" must be found offline and taught source study using folk remedies. But even if you read your own, um, source, you will find out that he talks about the well-known alliance between Finland and Estonia (strictly speaking, the whole block of young countries from Finland to Bulgaria was brought up as a buffer zone after Versailles). As for the Swedish troops, they are referred to as chatter in smoking rooms of people who do not have the authority to make such decisions.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Either agree or the Wehrmacht will be in Sweden.

                      Oh well. If the Wehrmacht were so needed in Sweden, he would have ended up there without the advice of the Soviets.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      the massive support of the partisan movement until June 22, 1941 can be forgotten.

                      ))) July 31, 1940, Hitler’s decision on the war, the development of Barbarossa began. So no, the USSR is categorically not needed there, and there is absolutely nothing to distract the Wehrmacht from the occupation ..
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Exactly

                      The Soviet understanding of neutrality aroused the desire in France and Britain to bomb it a little bit.
                    4. strannik1985 30 November 2019 06: 19 New
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                      You are from Comrade Stalin

                      I’m not talking about this; he did not expect a quick defeat of France.
                      Why is this?

                      Once again, you appealed to the great losses during the Soviet-Finnish war, there will be no more such ones, there are no conditions. The USSR has vast experience in combating illegal armed groups in Central Asia, the Far East, and practically across all borders, why should this scare Stalin?
                      People who write

                      I do not discuss issues of faith. As far as I understand, he refers to the Finnish historian J. Leskinen. Believe or not believe your own business.
                      Oh well

                      They themselves wrote that Sweden is important for the Reich, i.e. the issue will be solved one way or another, and long before the aggression against the USSR.
                    5. Octopus 30 November 2019 14: 52 New
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                      Quote: strannik1985
                      he did not expect a quick defeat of France

                      And what does the defeat of France? He was obliged to admit that Germany and the French shavers would continue to fight all the same without worrying (or even agree at all times, they didn’t do anything bad to each other, drowned someone, got excited, it happens). That is, both Adolph and the Francobrit have their hands completely untied to figure out what happened in the East.
                      When does Germany worn out in the West - it’s all the better.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      The USSR has vast experience in combating illegal armed groups in Central Asia,

                      Exactly what a great experience in the struggle, you remember that by the way. Ten years of fighting experience.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      why should it scare Stalin?

                      Already wrote above. Comrade Stalin had forest brothers at the same time 30 km from Leningrad, the army, 4 under-liberated countries in the West, friend Adolf, Roosevelt’s embargo, British bombers in the South, didn’t forget anything? Oh yes, Japan.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      As far as I understand, he refers to the Finnish historian J. Leskinen

                      You do not understand the word "link", apparently.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      They themselves wrote that Sweden is important for the Reich, i.e. the issue will be solved one way or another,

                      This is just neutral Sweden. Soviet - absolutely not.
                    6. strannik1985 30 November 2019 15: 11 New
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                      And what does the defeat of France?

                      Despite the fact that the window of opportunity is not very large, Stalin should hurry with the occupation if he wanted to.
                      Already wrote above

                      It remains to find documentary evidence that Stalin somehow cared wink Even the initial offensive plan on the Karelian Isthmus ends on Vyborg.
                      Link

                      The site does not miss links. You do not know how to use the search bar? laughing
                      Soviet-categorically no

                      That is, Sweden has a secret military treaty with Finland-neutral, and the Soviet Union fulfills the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact-no. Funny logic. good
                    7. Octopus 30 November 2019 16: 33 New
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                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Stalin should rush into occupation if he wanted to.

                      What is another window of opportunity? For February-March of the 40th it is not known whether the war in the West will be serious at all or not. So there can be no talk of any 10 years of struggle with the Finnish Basmachis.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Even the initial offensive plan on the Karelian Isthmus ends on Vyborg.

                      That is, so Stalin and Molotov deceived Comrade Kuusinen? Wow, what insincere people.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      The site does not miss links

                      I do not ask you a link to Kurushin. I write that Kurushin is yap, not a historian.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Sweden having a secret military treaty

                      You have already been told that Kurushin says nothing about the Swedish-Finnish military treaty, except for retelling the empty chatter of the nameless military. That is, you are misinterpreting your own "source".
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Funny logic

                      Nothing funny. The Reich has its friends and its enemies. In the Anglo-German war, Sweden is neutral for all, and the USSR is neutral for a completely different sort.
                    8. strannik1985 30 November 2019 17: 21 New
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                      What is another window of opportunity?

                      From the experience of World War I, Germany did not draw a land war on two fronts. What is the point of him getting involved in a war with the USSR having France and England behind him?
                      That is, so Stalin

                      That is, there is no documentary evidence of Stalin's desire to occupy all of Finland. They do not discuss at the meetings of the GVS in 1939; this is not in the plan of Meretskov. We are discussing someone’s hypothesis and nothing more.
                      I do not ask you

                      Yes, at least someone, he is not the only one writing. Leskinen yap too? Only based on your opinion? laughing
                      Nothing fun

                      An agreement not backed up by force costs nothing. What will prevent the "allies" from breaking a hypothetical treaty and stabbing Germany in the back? Nothing. Therefore, until June 1940, Hitler needed a neutral USSR.
                    9. Octopus 30 November 2019 17: 43 New
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                      Quote: strannik1985
                      What is the point of him getting involved in a war with the USSR having France and England behind him?

                      Is that how you troll?
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Ie there is no documentary evidence

                      Where is the original signature of Stalin, present the original signature of Stalin. I already played it, thanks.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      He is not the only one to write. Leskinen yap too

                      No idea. I'm not going to look for Leskinen's job. I see the phrase "according to secret documents", I do not see a single link to archival work - immediately see.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Therefore, until June 1940, Hitler needed a neutral USSR.

                      Do you have problems reading or reading? From March 40 to June 40 three months. The struggle with the Basmachi lasted 10 years.
                    10. strannik1985 30 November 2019 18: 25 New
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                      Is that how you troll?

                      I just do not make Hitler an idiot.
                      Where is the original signature of Stalin

                      That is, you can’t justify the lack of documentary evidence. thank wink
                      No idea

                      Believe it or not, it's your own business, it does not concern me.
                      You have problems

                      With perception. We discuss your hypothesis, and you act as if it does not require evidence.
  • hohol95 29 November 2019 15: 32 New
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    And after 2 months - May 40th, Dunkirk. At this moment, Comrade Stalin realized that he had really big problems. It was not up to the Finns, for their happiness.

    Therefore, the Finnish government turned to the USSR with a proposal to begin peace negotiations. On March 7, the Finnish delegation arrived in Moscow, and on March 12, a peace treaty was concluded, according to which the hostilities ceased at 12:13 on March 1940, XNUMX.

    And who asked for the world?
    1. Octopus 29 November 2019 17: 19 New
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      Quote: hohol95
      who requested peace from anyone?

      Finns requested. But here the comrade wonders why Comrade Stalin decided to negotiate with them. He already had his own right Finland with blackjack and Comrade Kuussinen, the future hero of labor, but for some reason negotiations with the tsarist general took place.
      1. strannik1985 29 November 2019 21: 35 New
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        The generals are preparing for the past war. The USSR used the experience of World War I and the Civil War, when troops could be propagandized. The Kuusinen government was created precisely for this.
        1. Octopus 29 November 2019 22: 56 New
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          Hmm, an interesting thought, I have not seen before. But it seems strange to me. Two functions are more logical: 1. It is more convenient to create the Reich Commissariat in advance. 2. Red Finland - a fig leaf for the people's commissar, Comrade Molotov appreciated such things, and knew how to use it.
        2. strannik1985 30 November 2019 06: 23 New
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          Quote: Octopus
          Hmm, an interesting thought, I have not seen before. But it seems strange to me

          The Finnish parliament during the war seriously discussed the idea of ​​creating the Russian government, at first they wanted to invite Kerensky, then Trotsky to the place of the head. Naturally, they were not going to occupy the USSR, exactly the same move, but from the Finnish side.
        3. Octopus 30 November 2019 15: 34 New
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          Quote: strannik1985
          The Finnish Parliament during the war seriously discussed the idea of ​​creating a Russian government

          It is rather an answer to the creative of Stalin-Molotov from the KFSSR. Unfortunately, no one except the Finns noticed him. In the right hands, say, Roosevelt, Trotsky’s alternative Mexican Comintern would become a weapon of monstrous power, just as the disintegrated Soviet and Chinese path to communism became a disaster for the reds in the East and reddish in the West 20 years later. Comrade Stalin, it should be said, understood this and resolved the issue without bringing to trouble, not out of personal hostility alone.

          I'm not talking about what a catastrophe for the USSR would be a constructive democratic German government, which entered Aachen on the armor of Sherman. How Comrade Rakosi entered Hungary, for example.
  • sidoroff 28 November 2019 18: 12 New
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    there was one small hindrance - Hitler was against it. in November 1940, Molotov personally asked for his consent to continue the "banquet",
    but Adolf again refused.
  • meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 36 New
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    I don’t see anything bad. They would return the original Russian lands. But propaganda is one thing, but reality is different.
    A clash with England was not part of our plans. Yes, and Finland itself was not really needed. The Baltic states are needed. All the money would not be enough.
  • Fat
    Fat 29 November 2019 02: 50 New
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    Quote: RUSS
    Quote: Aerodrome
    try to twist history

    Remember the song of those years - "Take us, Suomi, the beauty,
    In a necklace of transparent lakes! ", Stalin's goal was to get Finland to join the USSR, all Soviet propaganda worked but that we were going to free the Finnish oppressed people.

    I don’t remember the song, I was born in 1965, but I read the lyrics, terribly sweet, but the track "nyet Molotov" is in the collection. So, the “+” ... The Finns in the USSR were not much eager, to say the least. but after the finnish war. On March 31 (?) 1940, the Karelian-Finnish SSR became part of the USSR. Chairman of the Presidium of the Armed Forces of the Republic Kuusinen O. V., former head of the Finnish Democratic Republic, formed on December 1, 1939. So, “Suomi is a beauty” is about real events.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. hohol95 29 November 2019 15: 33 New
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      Change your country of residence!
  • Flooding 28 November 2019 06: 05 New
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    The policy of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR in relation to the national suburbs resonates in the soul and heart.
    As if everything is right, humanly, in our opinion.
    But why then did the consequences of it leave only a bitter sediment?
    Still, one must be guided not only by humanity and kindness, but also by pragmatism.
    And never forget how imperfect the world is.
    A strange story, but the fewer years the statehood of one or another people has been counting, the more aggression it is in the future towards its benefactor.
    Let it seem metaphysics, but there is something in this from the laws of development of the human person. These young states are in a stage corresponding to adolescence. Aggressive, ungrateful, selfish and shortsighted.
    1. Uncle lee 28 November 2019 06: 21 New
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      Quote: Flood
      Aggressive, ungrateful, selfish and shortsighted.

      And there’s nothing to add!
    2. Deck 28 November 2019 06: 45 New
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      These young states are in a stage corresponding to adolescence. Aggressive, ungrateful, selfish and shortsighted


      Papuans! We can say they taught and taught to brush your teeth in the morning. And for some reason they do not like us.
      1. Flooding 28 November 2019 06: 48 New
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        Quote: Deck
        Papuans! We can say they taught and taught to brush your teeth in the morning. And for some reason they do not like us.

        In my opinion, this is sarcasm. Are you naughty?
        In any case, for me personally, such intonations are unacceptable.
        A derogatory attitude towards any nations and nationalities is unacceptable.
        It reduces us to the level of troglodytes.
        1. Deck 28 November 2019 06: 54 New
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          A derogatory attitude towards any nations and nationalities is unacceptable.
          It reduces us to the level of troglodytes.


          What are you ?! What are you doing on this forum? You do not support the author of the article?
          1. Flooding 28 November 2019 07: 02 New
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            Quote: Deck
            What are you doing on this forum?

            Mostly read.
            Quote: Deck
            You do not support the author of the article?

            The author's assessment of the Finns is far from your abusive vocabulary.
      2. Octopus 28 November 2019 14: 15 New
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        Quote: Deck
        We can say they taught taught and brush your teeth in the morning


        We can say, we found it in the garbage dump, washed it, cleaned it from cleaning, and he paints us


        There are people who seriously argue that from the Swedish territories, Finland and Norway, the Russians taught the Finns to wipe burdock at the time, and the Norwegians still live in the XNUMXth century, they love sheep in a bad sense of the word. But for Mr. Samsonov this is not surprising.
      3. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 40 New
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        And when did the boys love caring fathers? They "love" only those who give them money for toys, and then they give them money for cars and girls. As soon as they exhaust it to the end, immediately throw it away or take the apartment away.
    3. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 07: 01 New
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      Quote: Flood
      As if everything is right, humanly, in our opinion.

      it seemed so.
      Quote: Flood
      Still, one must be guided not only by humanity and kindness, but also by pragmatism.

      when was that? when did the girl Samantha Smith fly in peace? so they killed her.
      Quote: Flood
      And never forget how imperfect the world is.

      it is yes. for that, we are the crown of creation, the most intelligent, about which we break spears on the site.
      Quote: Flood
      A strange story, but the fewer years the statehood of one or another people has been counting, the more aggression it is in the future towards its benefactor.

      but to the point! Stalin boosted the economy, and now, he is accused of the fact that he intended to kill as many people as possible with electricity generated by DNEPROGES
      1. Flooding 28 November 2019 08: 31 New
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        I still did not understand what is more in your opus: irony or bad mood.
      2. Octopus 28 November 2019 14: 20 New
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        Quote: Aerodrome
        Samantha Smith girl flew in with the world? so they killed her.

        Wow. To bang the child, the passenger plane was not regretted. Apparently, methods were developed for 9/11.
    4. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 08: 47 New
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      Quote: Flood
      Still, one must be guided not only by humanity and kindness, but also by pragmatism.

      hey, chubas, sechin, miller, rottenberg ... are you reading?
      1. Flooding 28 November 2019 08: 58 New
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        Did you suspect them of being too humane?
  • LeonidL 28 November 2019 06: 10 New
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    Impeccable in terms of historical authenticity, a well-reasoned article. Thanks to the author.
    1. zaches 28 November 2019 10: 00 New
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      Long applause! Giant thoughts! I like reading it if reading jokes is boring. laughing
      1. Octopus 28 November 2019 14: 22 New
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        Quote: zaches
        Really like reading it

        Why is the author still no fellow? Necessarily need fellow travelers.
  • carstorm 11 28 November 2019 06: 51 New
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    the whole point is that from a military point of view, this war was necessary. if the country knows that there will be a war then the capture of Finland should and should have happened. and reporting or regretting this is a lot of stupidity. politicians can and need to look for reasons there, but for military men this decision is more than understandable at first glance at the map.
    1. Doctor 28 November 2019 07: 36 New
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      politicians can and need to look for reasons there, but for military men this decision is more than understandable at first glance at the map.


      A card is generally a dangerous thing. You can say the main reason for the wars. The author looked at the map and it seemed to him that:

      The war was caused by objective reasons: ... the vital necessity for the USSR to push the border away from Leningrad in the conditions of a great war in Europe.


      Someone also looked at the map and it seemed to him that:

      How should we use political power? It's too early to say. It may be to obtain new opportunities for export, or maybe - even better - to conquer new living space in the East and its unceremonious Germanization. [


      It is necessary to prohibit cards. Then peace will come.
      1. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 08: 18 New
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        Quote: Arzt
        It is necessary to prohibit cards. Then peace will come.

        for sure. And Tv Inet - I don’t laugh at all. Seriously. a muzhig just arrives in tatters, and knocks a spear at the gates of “Tsaregrad” - do you go to Kama? Grandma will ask, yes I
        ... to this ... how is it ... Here you remember, tady and come! but right now I'll call the police! wassat
      2. at84432384 29 November 2019 19: 10 New
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        The hero of the comedy Griboedov was where as radical, he offered to burn all the books. Even more radical is the Russian government — after all the “reforms” of education, no one will be able to read soon, so cards can be left alone, they can come in handy to make a fire, or to twist a cigarette ...
    2. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 42 New
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      Right. So the British looked at the map and occupied Iceland in 1940. Nobody just noticed this. It is possible for them.
  • Amurets 28 November 2019 06: 55 New
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    In January 1918, a revolution began in Finland. She grew into a civil war, where the red and white Finns fought. The Reds had every chance to take up, as they relied on the most industrialized cities of the south, military factories, in their hands were the main arsenals of the former Russian imperial army. However, the leadership of the Reds adhered to defensive tactics
    What did they have to do? In fact, the Germans did their work to split Finland from the Republic of Ingushetia even before the WWII. This is what Mann K. and Jorgensen K. write in their book about the independence of Finland and the cooperation of the Finns with the Germans.
    Chris Mann devoted his research to the relations between Germany and Finland during the WWII and the Winter War ....
    War in the Arctic. German operations on
    Far North. 1939-1945 "The civil war in Finland was
    a real war - with the front line
    and offensive operations. Whites
    held North Fin in their hands
    Finland, Estherboten and the province of Kare
    li, while the reds controlled most
    large cities, industrial
    centers and the south of the country. Front line between
    them passed off the coast of Botnica
    th bay to Lake Ladoga. The forces of both
    the sides were roughly equal - somewhere in
    within 70 thousand fighters from each side
    We, although different authors indicate different
    numbers. Red troops were poorly trained
    We are equipped, and their commanders
    they didn’t know how to fight, but they were provided with
    a hold, although rather indecisive,
    Russian troops still in
    Finland. The main benefit of them for
    was that they supplied the fin
    ammunition of the Red Guards and
    weapons. The white finns were also bad
    trained and armed, and the leadership of
    they were also not very skilled. However in
    the number of White Finn commanders was not
    how many finnish officers received
    education back in tsarist Russia as well
    Swedish volunteers, and the army itself
    headed by Karl Gustav Mannerheim, General,
    rose to this rank in Russia
    imperial army. It was the most
    talented commander of civil howl
    us in Finland. Also on the side
    belofinnov fought well trained
    27th Jäger Battalion. Even before the revolution
    in Russia, a group of Finnish volunteers,
    dreamed of the independence of their homeland,
    by agreement with the German authorities about
    went military training in Loxstedt
    in Germany."
    1. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 07: 44 New
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      Amur. hi ..with skill. far from the Nerchensky outpost?
      1. Amurets 28 November 2019 08: 16 New
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        Quote: Aerodrome
        far from the Nerchensky outpost?

        Long away. The mouth of Cupid and Zeya.
        1. Aerodrome 28 November 2019 09: 02 New
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          Quote: Amurets
          Quote: Aerodrome
          far from the Nerchensky outpost?

          Long away. The mouth of Cupid and Zeya.

          it doesn’t matter ... my younger brother has been Daursky for 25 years at the outpost. retired five years since he left. yearning, drinking ... beating bullies ... I'm afraid for him, not "fit" .... stick.
  • mavrus 28 November 2019 07: 12 New
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    Thanks to the author. I look forward to continuing ...
  • bionik 28 November 2019 07: 40 New
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    The Russian empire was built not due to the exploitation of the colonies, like the Western empires, but due to the “internal colonization” of the Russian people. Russians cried (including blood) civilizational, spiritual and material rise of national suburbs
    Gold words!!!!! This continued the USSR, and is happening now.
    1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 08: 23 New
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      bionik (Vladislav)
      Gold words!!!!! This continued the USSR, and is happening now.
      I agree with the USSR, but now it’s just the opposite. Moscow raked everything for itself. What outskirts are developing now? The Far East is in deep opera, including Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands. The South lives due to the fact that the regions are quite rich, although Moscow does not rob the South too, Siberia is the same, the Western regions are also good, well, except that they are now investing in the North, only because there will soon be the main base for pumping raw materials. Where do people from regions go to earn money? Only to Moscow. Moscow in area will soon be from the Moscow region. Ponder every 9th Russian living and working in Moscow, if not every XNUMXth already.
      So now everything is exactly the opposite!
      1. Nitochkin 28 November 2019 09: 12 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        bionik (Vladislav)
        Gold words!!!!! This continued the USSR, and is happening now.
        I agree with the USSR, but now it’s just the opposite. Moscow raked everything for itself. What outskirts are developing now? The Far East is in deep opera, including Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands. The South lives due to the fact that the regions are quite rich, although Moscow does not rob the South too, Siberia is the same, the Western regions are also good, well, except that they are now investing in the North, only because there will soon be the main base for pumping raw materials. Where do people from regions go to earn money? Only to Moscow. Moscow in area will soon be from the Moscow region. Ponder every 9th Russian living and working in Moscow, if not every XNUMXth already.
        So now everything is exactly the opposite!


        The tradition is respected. After the collapse of the USSR, the “internal colonization” of the Russian people only intensified. Only instead of the republics, Moscow is now fattening.
    2. Octopus 28 November 2019 14: 44 New
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      Quote: bionik
      Gold words!!!!! This continued the USSR, and is happening now.

      Yes, by the way.

      Among other things, it’s amazing how the author suddenly writes the word “Russians,” and under this word he speaks absolutely seamlessly both EIV Nikolai Aleksandrovich Holstein-Gottorp-Romarov and Comrade Ulyanov, who ordered citizen Romanov, former imperial majesty, to be shot along with his children and servants. And His Excellency G.K. Mannerheim, the general of the retinue of this very citizen Romanov, whom he, whether it was poor or not, took the oath - the oath personally to the emperor - had, it turns out, to sort out this circus and go over to the rioters on the salary of the German General Staff while Nikolai was still alive, like Brusilov.
  • Plantagenet 28 November 2019 07: 44 New
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    "However, the positive results were practically
    completely nullified by that indisputable fact
    that Finland is from a likely opponent after
    this war has become mandatory in the attack
    any state to our country.

    Let me give you one quote: "... as a result
    a bloody non-popular war that showed
    how the Red Army weakened after the repressions of 1937-
    1938, the border was pushed west more than
    100 kilometers from Leningrad, but Finland from English
    the French bloc moved to the Nazi camp, and
    this led later to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Leningraders during
    blockade time, which would not have happened if we had not fought
    with Finland ... ”I.

    Okay, one of the venerable readers will say
    age, they write a lot of all of these young and early.
    But it was by no means written by a young man, but by a participant in this
    war, as well as two civil (in Russia
    and Spain) and the Great Patriotic War - Ilya Grigorievich
    Starinov. "

    P. Apothecary "Soviet-Finnish War"
    1. apro 28 November 2019 08: 18 New
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      Finland in any situation before 1941 was in the camp of the opponents of the USSR. Not with the Germans so with the Angles. And the Soviet-Finnish war entered the war or not. Moreover, the Finns were preparing for it.
      1. Fibrizio 28 November 2019 10: 54 New
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        There is an opinion. That, including the mediocre company against Finland, convinced Hitler at the time to start a war with the USSR, because of its results we certainly won, but showed ourselves as a weak adversary.
        Also after the attack on Finland, the USSR showed that it was ready to solve territorial issues by force.
        This, too, was an additional argument in the decision to attack the USSR or not.
        The actions of the USSR in the Baltic states, where the Communist parties were brought to power, put the last point over I (those who studied this question even superficially know how).

        So the big question is what the USSR won from the war with Finland except for a piece of land which in 41 was won back by the Finns.

        Certainly not the Finnish company predetermined our participation in the Second World War, but it definitely influenced.
        1. apro 28 November 2019 11: 58 New
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          What does it mean mediocre? The tasks of the Red Army fulfilled the tasks set. The losses are comparable. The world signed on Soviet terms ..
          The USSR addressed security issues in the first place and the security of Leningrad, a large industrial center. At that time it could only be decided by military means. All Soviet Finnish proposals were rejected. They themselves conducted anti-Soviet policies and had territorial claims against the USSR.
          Hitler had a decision to attack the USSR for other reasons. An agreement with the Angles led to this.
          1. Fibrizio 28 November 2019 12: 32 New
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            About the English is strong. And the agreement of the "Angles and non Germans" that the latter will attack the USSR.
            I will tell you a secret, England was at war with Germany for several years at the time of the beginning of the great Patriotic War.
            And the war with the "Angles" by the German was unnecessary from the word at all. In general, when deciding on the capture of Poland, Hitler did not plan to fight with others. It was him who declared war.

            Regarding comparable losses.
            Everything would be fine, but the USSR was superior in armaments to tiny Finland by an order of magnitude and in some places by an order of magnitude. Troops also used more (200 thousand).
            And do you really think that the capture of such a tiny country by such giants and the irretrievable loss of almost 100 thousand is normal?
            The initial winter offensive arose. It was the Finnish war that showed the unwillingness of the USSR to wage a large-scale war.
            There is a lot of information about this war, including and by the way, and as for me, not too biased by urapatriotism.

            Regarding the "secure Leningrad", there are so many states where the capital is near the border. What are they to fight?
            I do not justify anyone, but this is a war — the pure aggression of the USSR.
            Nobody encroached on our land, we were the first to declare war justifying it as a necessity.
            At that time, we were not the only ones doing it by the way. Someone also captured Poland defending themselves against aggression.
            1. apro 28 November 2019 12: 38 New
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              Quote: Fibrizio
              Nobody encroached on our land

              With what I congratulate you .... further there is no sense in arguing anything.
            2. meandr51 2 December 2019 22: 52 New
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              The loss ratio of 1: 3 during offensive operations is normal. And in those conditions - generally very few. In The Last Republic, V. Suvorov describes his experience working with the English staff computer and a special program for calculating military operations. The “defeat” in the Finnish war began as soon as the air temperature was entered. And there was also the amount of snow cover, the level of resistance and equipment of the enemy, camouflage and power of fortifications, the balance of forces at the front, etc. "Victory" began only after applying at least 2 IDs of 50 ct each.
              As for other states, for the occupation they absolutely do not need to have a capital near the border of the enemy. You won’t believe it, but right and democratic Britain completely captured in 1940 ... Iceland just so that the Germans would not capture it. Well, there it is convenient to put a base on the sea routes ... Where is London-Liverpool and where is Reykjavik!
          2. Octopus 28 November 2019 14: 47 New
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            Quote: apro
            The USSR dealt with security in the first place. And the security of Mr. Leningrad, a large industrial center. At that time, it could only be decided by military means.

            The USSR perfectly solved these questions, there is something to remember.
            1. meandr51 2 December 2019 22: 54 New
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              The main thing is, there is someone to remember ... If I hadn’t decided, then there would be nobody.
          3. Amurets 28 November 2019 16: 00 New
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            Quote: apro
            Hitler had a decision to attack the USSR for other reasons. An agreement with the Angles led to this.

            Not everything is so simple here. The countdown must be kept from the "Munich agreement." Then all this epic spun. Germany’s hands were untied and if the Strange War hadn’t started, it would still be unknown how events would unfold. Again a quote from the book "War in the Arctic" In 1936, Germany
            sent troops to the Rhine demilitarized
            zone, in March 1938 annexed to
            Austria, and in the autumn of that year, Hitler
            achieved rejection from Czechoslovakia Sudeten
            (in Munich, September 29-30, 1938, leaders
            Germany, England, France and Italy for
            set Czechoslovakia to transfer to Germany
            Sudetenland. - Ed.). Insolent, aggressive appearance
            Hitler’s policy provoked serious
            concern among Soviet leaders
            Union. The Führer in his book Mine Kampf
            "<My struggle", 1924-1925) and in a speech
            Niyah after the seizure of power openly declared
            about his rejection of Russia, the USSR.
            Soviet leaders feared Britain hoping to divert attention
            Hitler from the West, will send the German
            aggression to the northeast, in the Baltic
            country. This course of events does not
            arranged for the Soviet leader Joseph Sta
            lina who claimed that “Finland
            can also become a springboard for antiso
            veteran speeches by the bourgeois
            imperialist groups like
            German and Anglo-Franco-American
            Skye. " Stalin believed that these groups
            “They are plotting a joint blow to the USSR.
            Finland may well be set on us
            in order to unleash a great war ”8. How
            it is strange, similar views prider
            not only the Soviet Union lived - Shwe
            The nation also began to fear that Finland
            may turn to Germany for help 9.
            And although these fears were groundless
            mi, they testify that not only
            to the USSR was concerned about the possibility
            about the German orientation of the Finns. "
        2. Fat
          Fat 29 November 2019 03: 46 New
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          Quote: Fibrizio
          Certainly not a Finnish company predetermined our participation in the Second World War, but it definitely influenced

          WWII - colloquially, the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet People, however. So that the USSR participated in the Second World War by definition.
        3. at84432384 29 November 2019 19: 36 New
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          Was Mein Kampf written after the war with Finland? And the pumping of German money from American capital also began after the war with Finland? And militarization? The decision on the war was made not in 39, and not only by Hitler. First, Hitler and his marginal party were dragged out to lead Germany, and then they turned Germany, dressed in reparations, into an industrial and economic monster precisely in order to remove the first socialist state from the face of the Earth. There are no accidents in such things. There is still a very "competent" opinion that if there hadn’t been a purge in the army, there would have been no war from the same opera.
      2. Octopus 28 November 2019 14: 46 New
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        Quote: apro
        not with the Germans so with the angles

        And Britain at that time fought with the USSR?
        1. meandr51 2 December 2019 22: 57 New
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          I wanted it all the time, but somehow it did not add up. Read about what they agreed with the Finns, why the bombers were transferred to Iran in 1940 ...
          Yes, and after the war, who made the "Unthinkable" plan?
          1. Octopus 2 December 2019 23: 38 New
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            Quote: meandr51
            I wanted it all the time, but somehow it didn’t add up

            I had in mind such an opportunity, but at the very least managed without it.
            Quote: meandr51
            why did bombers transfer to Iran in 1940 ...

            Well, at least someone learned something. Until the spring of the 40th, it was the USSR, with no Reich, the most aggressive regime in Europe.
            Quote: meandr51
            After the war, who made the "Unthinkable" plan?

            This is one of Churchill's main mistakes in life. The unthinkable should have been composed much earlier and more openly, with appropriate political accompaniment. A convenient moment to turn to the war with the USSR was in the fall of the 44th. Then, perhaps, even Roosevelt could have time to reach that the USSR should not become the winner of WWII. It was already difficult to drive the USSR abroad of the 39th year, but it was quite enough to undercut its success.
    2. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 08: 53 New
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      Plantagenet (Alexander)
      But it was not a young man who wrote this, but a participant in this war, as well as two civilians (in Russia
      and Spain) and the Great Patriotic War - Ilya Grigorievich Starinov.
      With all due respect to Starinov as a partisan and saboteur, he could not possess the information that the top leadership of the USSR possessed, and therefore could not see the whole picture of what was happening. So his assessment is purely subjective and does not reflect reality.
    3. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 51 New
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      Well, yes, did Finland have any plans for occupying our North at all? As for whose camp Finland is in, it would be in German anyway. Since the Germans are nearby, plans to divide the Soviet territory are in good agreement, and the swastika on Finnish tanks and planes appeared in 1918. The Finns began to fight with the Germans only after getting in the teeth from ours in the 44th. This fact of instant betrayal of the former ally suggests that Finland is a prostitute who gives anyone who has power at the moment. Even to someone who is organically disgusting to her.
  • rocket757 28 November 2019 08: 03 New
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    Nevertheless, Helsinki did not intend to abandon plans to create a “Great Finland”.

    They have raked it, now they can shove their Wishlist away, along with all the universal people and the whole international!
    The question is closed and let someone try to "open it real" ... he will scoop up, crawl away and shut up for the next many centuries!
  • KryoWarrior1978 28 November 2019 08: 12 New
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    For example, I was born on the territory of the "results of the Northern War." And this is my homeland !!! I will not give it to anyone. At the same time, I treat the current neighbors in good neighborliness.
  • BAI
    BAI 28 November 2019 09: 02 New
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    Something the author did not mention that the Finns carried out a terrorist attack on March 30.03.1919, XNUMX in Petrograd.

    closer to the morning, the first bomb exploded at the Main City Water Station. A little later, bombs went off on Penkova Street, where the second water station was located. However, something went wrong, and a group of Ingermanland terrorists failed to de-energize night Petrograd. The people responsible for undermining the power plant for some reason did not implement the plan. The group thrown into arson did not work well. Fires broke out before the second waterworks were blown up, so the firefighters' work was only partially complicated. It was difficult to judge the number of victims. The numbers sounded different. The Petrograd leadership minimized and hid the losses. Finnish whites, however, proudly claimed that only one explosion at the waterworks struck fifty people.
    1. Octopus 28 November 2019 14: 50 New
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      Quote: BAI
      Finnish whites, however, proudly claimed that only one explosion at the waterworks struck fifty people.

      The scale of terror is impressive. Especially for Russia in 1919, paradise was the place.
  • Sovpadenie 28 November 2019 09: 04 New
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    It seems to me that the time has come to stop trying to be "good" for everyone and try to justify their actions at this historical stage, as well as the actions of the country's leadership in past years. It's time to realize the great state of Russia, the imperial state (I see nothing terrible in this term)? And on this basis, act in their own interests. The only excuse is the interests of the state
    1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 09: 25 New
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      Sovpadenie (Alexey)
      It seems to me that the time has come to stop trying to be "good" for everyone and try to justify their actions at this historical stage, as well as the actions of the country's leadership in past years. It's time to realize the great state of Russia, the imperial state (I see nothing terrible in this term)? And on this basis, act in their own interests. The only excuse is the interests of the state
      I absolutely agree with you. But the trouble is, everything that you wrote is possible, but not with this government of liberals. Liberals are not capable of building, they are not statesmen and certainly not supporters of Russia's imperialism. It is enough for them to rob her bowels and her people, they are not capable of anything more.
      In order to get off the ground it is necessary to change the social structure and state system, and for this, a new Jostf Stalin, along with Beria, Molotov, Gromyko and others, is needed at the head. And such as I do not observe on the horizon. After the events of 2014 in the Crimea, it seemed to me that Putin could, but no, unfortunately, it only seemed to me. Putin is just a product of our rotten system and nothing more. To say that after the 2018 elections and the “goodies” in the form of raising the retirement age and VAT, there was disappointment, then nothing to say.
      1. Moskovit 28 November 2019 09: 35 New
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        Again pulled in the empire. Are your children going to pacify the rebellious outskirts? Again from the Russian people do you want to make bricks? In Russia, the Russian population is rapidly declining, but it is the backbone of the country, not Dagestanis. That's what you need to take care of. So that people in the country live, do not survive.
        1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 10: 25 New
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          Moskovit (Alexey)
          Again pulled in the empire.
          Alexey hi ! With all due respect, tell me, how do you feel about the annexation of Crimea? But what about the breakaway of South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Donbass from their metropolises?

          I’ll tell you a secret from the time of the conquest of Siberia by Ermak, Russia has ALWAYS been an empire, even during its decline in 1612, 1917 and 1991!
          1. Moskovit 28 November 2019 10: 37 New
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            To be honest, where the Russian or Slavic element prevails, you can put things in order. Crimea was ours, though de jure Ukrainian. Everyone spoke Russian, Russians lived mainly, they loved Russia. The same story with the Donbass. Therefore, I personally only for taking them to us.
            I was in Abkhazia. Blessed land, nature is just beautiful, but everything is filthy and abandoned. Abkhazians are afraid to start up Russian business, because the Sochi residents will simply dissolve them.
            I was not in South Ossetia, I don’t know how it is. The question is, do we need such people and such territories? It is clear that we have already climbed in and it makes no sense to go out.
            Summary: we have a lot of land, only there is no order, but Russians and other nationalities who are interested in maintaining the integrity of Russia should reign. I don’t want the Russians to be eternal outcasts on foreign lands, therefore the idea of ​​an empire is alien to me.
            1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 10: 56 New
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              Moskovit (Alexey)
              Summary: we have a lot of land, only there is no order, but Russians and other nationalities who are interested in maintaining the integrity of Russia should reign. I don’t want the Russians to be eternal outcasts on foreign lands, therefore the idea of ​​an empire is alien to me.
              Alexey, I have to disappoint you. In principle, I am also a little “Russian chauvinist” (in a good way), but with all this, I understand perfectly well that Russia has always been a multinational country, and this is its strength and weakness at the same time. It’s just that you don’t need to put anyone over someone, including Russians, to put them above the Tatars or Chukchi. Another thing is that now the trend is such that there is no one Russian, and that is all for minorities. This is also fundamentally wrong. All the peoples and nationalities of Russia should have the FACT, and not on paper, the same rights and obligations, then everything will be fine. Those. the total punishment for say shooting at a wedding should be the SAME for a Chechen, Dagestan, Tatar, Jew or Russian, and without any nepotism, and this is just not there. Although we must pay tribute to Kadyrov, he greatly tempered this lawlessness. It used to be a scourge, now, although there are incidents, it’s not so massive and not so open.
              I repeat Russia is strong with the unity of peoples and their complete and absolute EQUALITY!
              As for Russians - not Russians, I’ll remind you that the history of the rise of Russia is connected with rulers who, by birth, are not quite like Russians:
              1. Ivan III - a descendant of the Varangian Rurik.
              2. Ivan the Terrible - similarly.
              3. Peter the Great - I do not presume to judge how much Russian blood was in him.
              4. Elizaveta Petrovna - already half or German, or the Baltic states.
              5. Catherine the Great - a thoroughbred German.
              6. Alexander III - also do not understand who, but much more German than Russian.
              7. Joseph Stalin - Georgian.
              So as you can see here, if it smells Russian, it’s very far away somewhere!
              1. Moskovit 28 November 2019 11: 36 New
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                I’m rather not in terms of blood, but in terms of self-awareness. For example, the peoples of the Caucasus are too attached to their clans, narrow interests, always standing above the state. Stalin, Beria rose above this. Mikoyan to a lesser extent).
                I am not saying that Russians are the highest race. Russians are more state-owned because they have never lost their independence and have been brought up like this for centuries.
                1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 12: 06 New
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                  Here I agree with everything! Russian is really the foundation and cement of Russia and its peoples. No other nation would rally such a colossus as Russia!
              2. Fat
                Fat 29 November 2019 04: 29 New
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                Varangians are more likely to specialize than ethnos, like ear-flaps with Cossacks. Russian is not a nationality but an adjective means belonging to Russia. In RI
                there was the name Great Russian, about whose "National Pride" Lenin wrote
        2. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 54 New
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          That is why it is declining because the outskirts, they think of something wrong about themselves. It's time to tell them the proper place. Otherwise, they will devour us completely. It's time to get up from the stove.
      2. Octopus 28 November 2019 14: 51 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        we need a new Jostf Stalin, along with Beria, Molotov, Gromyko and others. And such as I do not observe on the horizon

        You can ask Ramzan Akhmatovich. No, it won’t work?
        1. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 56 New
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          Who cares? If only socialism restored the USSR. Under capitalism, Russia will fall apart and be physically destroyed.
    2. Fibrizio 28 November 2019 11: 04 New
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      I always ask myself a question. And why do we need to collect / return / attach something? What is the purpose? After all, we have a social state? It’s not for a minute that I came up with. We have written so in the main document of the country.
      Therefore, the state should set social goals. The accession of the CIS countries (their territories), I believe, does not comply with the main doctrine of our state.
      We want to give our passports to the inhabitants of backward countries? Join their economically unprofitable regions? Pull their standard of living to Russian? What for? Do we have charity?
      To attach everything, to conquer, it’s fine, but why, what is the benefit? I could still understand if we were organizing a protectorate there, but local forum users wish entry of new lands into the Russian Federation on equal terms, and their citizens too ....
      Land in the Russian Federation - unmeasured. I flew from Moscow to Vladivostok. You can fly for hours at night and see rare lights. Domestic expansion can still go Sonya 2-3 years and the land does not end. The country is endless. On a plane to fly from end to end for more than 12 hours .....
      I think that the Russian Federation was very lucky that in the 90s we got rid of such stones on our shoulders as most of the former Soviet republics. If they had remained in our country, we would have lived much worse and poorer now.

      The opinion is not popular, but I tried to explain my motives to think so.
      1. Pavel57 28 November 2019 11: 40 New
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        Collect and join in order to create an economically independent community. This is about 300 million. person.
        We got rid of the outskirts, but it turns out that it is far from complete. And now we are dependent on them at a different level - security, migrants, loyalty of the countries of the former USSR, etc.
        All this requires resources.

        And Russia has the doctrine of the state does not.
      2. Moskovit 28 November 2019 11: 41 New
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        I agree with you. My wife worked at the MFC. The most meticulous visitors are women with many children in national headscarves who knock out subsidies for themselves, apply for benefits and more. Why do we need all this?
      3. Octopus 28 November 2019 14: 55 New
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        Quote: Fibrizio
        We have written so in the main document of the country.

        You would be more careful. Reading extremist literature is prohibited.
        Quote: Fibrizio
        The opinion is not popular, but I tried to explain my motives to think so.

        Opinion popular among liberals. Then they call Comrade Stalin, as in the Diablo4 promo, do not interfere.
      4. shura7782 28 November 2019 16: 21 New
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        Quote: Fibrizio
        If they had remained in our country, we would have lived much worse and poorer now.

        Alexander, the fact is that today your satisfaction is limited only by the current borders. You think it’s just more profitable. There will be people with a different opinion, more, from their point of view, a cost-effective solution. To remove economically unprofitable areas from the rest of Russia, etc., it went and went. Are there not enough European examples that we are currently observing.
        1. Fibrizio 29 November 2019 09: 46 New
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          The measure of my satisfaction is the increase in the standard of living of the population.
          Everything that provides it in the long term is suitable for us.
          What we do with the former territories with a poor 100 + million people is a mystery to me personally.
          If there are reasonable projects - for God's sake.
          But projects like “join Donbass” are monstrous losses without obvious advantages.
          If Crimea can be understood strategically, then in the DPR and LPR there is nothing indispensable for us. In our country, coal is also mined, and minced so much that the miner from an elite Soviet profession has become a synonym for some kind of poverty, deceit, delays in the salary and so on.

          And about Europe and its fragmentation, even unhappy Poland lives better than our whole country if we discard large cities where there is money.
          In Europe, with a standard of living, everything is in order, it is higher than the national average, and this despite the fact that no one really has resources there.
      5. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 57 New
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        We need our own market. Do not give it to the East and the West. And how to draw it up is a question for diplomats and the military.
      6. Doctor 30 November 2019 14: 03 New
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        I always ask myself a question. And why do we need to collect / return / attach something? What is the purpose?


        The legacy of Genghis Khan.
        Russian princes for centuries of "cohabitation" with the Mongols absorbed his idea:
        “I want a girl with a golden dish to go from the Yellow Sea to the Black Sea without fear for either the dish or her honor.”

        Subsequent rulers of Russia expanded the concept to the Atlantic Ocean. Calm down (for a while) only there.
        1. Octopus 30 November 2019 17: 36 New
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          Quote: Arzt
          I want a girl with a golden dish to go from the Yellow Sea to the Black Sea,

          Quote: Arzt
          Subsequent rulers of Russia expanded the concept

          What kind of registration is this "girl"? Is there a passport at all?
  • Olgovich 28 November 2019 09: 23 New
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    В December In 1917, the Sejm proclaimed Finland an independent state. The Soviet government recognized the independence of Finland. Sovnarkom did not know
    /
    В January 1918 years in Finland began a revolution. She grew into a civil war,
    /
    The White Finns have begun to attack Russians already 1918 early years. They attacked units of the Russian army located in Finland
    .
    four wars


    Those. ALL disasters only happened after The thief was the result of her and the hollow and completely illiterate actions of the so-called "leaders" of the Council of People's Commissars, who know nothing neither in management, nor in relations between states, nor in anything. Which is not surprising, they NEVER, ANYONE, SEEED worked.

    How do NORMAL people? FIRST stipulate: borders, the fate of people, property, trade, and only then determine the legal status.

    We read the same Friedrichham Treaty began 19 century regarding the same Finland: EVERYTHING is stipulated there: the rights and property of citizens, cross-border trade, borders, etc.

    What did SNK make of this? NOTHING: left everything on .... then. And the war began abroad, the murder of Russians, etc. And so it happened on ALL the borders of Russia and all strictly after the thief.

    By the way. after recognition of independence, the Bolsheviks sent red detachments, money and weapons there to the red fnsnam, grossly violating the sovereignty of Finland and only after shouting from the owner (Germany) cowardly stopped it.
    1. Octopus 28 November 2019 15: 03 New
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      Quote: Olgovich
      What did SNK make of this? NOTHING

      You shouldn’t be so. SNK did everything right. The task of SNK is to maintain power. All sorts of little things - in its turn.
      Quote: Olgovich
      And the war began abroad, the murder of Russians, etc.

      Do not care. The main thing is who has power. They killed all the main enemies - they brought such a revolutionary order that little seemed to anyone. By the way, Russians, too, did not all fit into the new order.
      1. Olgovich 29 November 2019 09: 14 New
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        Quote: Octopus
        You shouldn’t be so. SNK did everything right. The task of SNK is to maintain power. All sorts of little things - in its turn.
        Quote: Olgovich
        And the war began abroad, the murder of Russians, etc.

        Do not care. The main thing is who has power. They killed all the main enemies - they brought such a revolutionary order that little seemed to anyone. By the way, Russians, too, did not all fit into the new order.

        agree yes
    2. meandr51 28 November 2019 20: 59 New
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      It’s easy to argue from the couch, and then the RSFSR did not have the strength to do all this. I don’t understand how it was not divided into 40 parts at all ...
      1. Olgovich 29 November 2019 09: 15 New
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        Quote: meandr51
        It’s easy to talk from the couch, and then the RSFSR did not have the strength to do all this

        Do not know, do not know how-DO NOT TAKE! There is such Russian wisdom.

        You don’t understand WHAT will turn out, all the more, don’t take it ...
  • Ros 56 28 November 2019 10: 02 New
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    It is time for the country's Security Council, together with the State Duma and the Academy of Sciences, to seriously approach the issue of teaching the history of our state, especially emphasizing truthfulness based not on someone’s fabrications, but on factology confirmed by historical documents. It’s more than one year’s work, but it is extremely necessary in the light of the development of current communication networks, where any fake can be cooked up. And give along with other items the highest status.
    1. Pavel57 28 November 2019 11: 33 New
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      It is time for the country's Security Council, together with the State Duma and the Academy of Sciences, to seriously approach the issue of teaching the history of our state, especially emphasizing truthfulness based not on someone’s fabrications, but on factology confirmed by historical documents

      This is hardly possible. And most importantly, who needs it.
      1. Ros 56 28 November 2019 12: 29 New
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        This is necessary for us ourselves, so as not to be Ivanes who do not remember kinship, like the same unreasonable Ukrainians and Belarusians.
    2. Octopus 28 November 2019 15: 05 New
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      Quote: Ros 56
      especially emphasizing truthfulness based not on someone’s fabrications, but on factology confirmed by historical documents

      They will plant it. Maybe you still want to put the archives on the Internet?
  • NBV
    NBV 28 November 2019 10: 12 New
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    I do not understand the desire to rehabilitate a regime similar to the Stalinist one. Stalin is a classic Russophobe who personally gave the order to kill millions. Political repression against the regime of the Pol Pot and Ang Sari in Cambodia and the Chinese Revolution also claimed the lives of millions of people directly copied by the Council.
    The myth is just a "myth" about repression!
    1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 10: 37 New
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      NBV (Nikolay)
      I do not understand the desire to rehabilitate a regime similar to the Stalinist one.
      And you don’t have to understand, otherwise you’ll suddenly grow wiser that in your fool the clinical case is clearly unacceptable! laughing laughing laughing
      Stalin - a classic Russophobe
      What does your (inference supported by "great knowledge") "conclusion" follow from ?! For decency, at least we read what the concept of Russophobe is ...
      who personally gave the order to kill millions
      Why not billions ?! Why trifles then? I’ll tell you more, he cursed every day bathed in the blood of infants and virgins, for which a hundred were specially killed every day for both of them ... laughing laughing laughing
      By the way, can you give a copy of Stalin’s order on the "killing of millions"? Another fool not a smart troll who wrote a comment just to make a bunch in a puddle.
      1. NBV
        NBV 28 November 2019 10: 56 New
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        Or maybe you want me to publish a complete list of the names of those killed with a notarized death certificate. In your case, it will also be considered as fake and manipulation. There are people who claim that the earth is flat, and its sphericity is a myth and a hoax. The argument is redundant.
        I recommend a book about the pious old man Arseny, who spent many years in the camp in Stalin's times and comforted the umirayushtikh every day.
        1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 11: 03 New
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          NBV (Nikolay)
          The argument is redundant.
          Of course, it is redundant, because you can’t bring anything. If you take and meticulously investigate cases, then in 95% of cases it turns out that the defendant is either a killer, or a thief, or a real spy and enemy of the people.
          By the way, do you even know how many people went through the so-called "Stalinist repression"?
          Compare the number of prisoners then and the number of convicts now, you will be extremely surprised, now you are sitting no less than under Stalin.
          However, why am I here in front of you ...? Not smart fool to learn - only to spoil!
          1. NBV
            NBV 28 November 2019 11: 06 New
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            Spiritual freedom and truth are closely related, as Christ says: “Know the truth, and it will set you free.” hi Have a nice day!
            1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 11: 16 New
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              NBV (Nikolay)
              Spiritual freedom and truth are closely related, as Christ says: “Know the truth, and it will set you free.”
              And you mean we are all so enlightened and know the "TRUE" ?! Nude ... laughing This is always the case when you yourself have nothing to say to drag Christ, to and from the place!
              Have a nice day!
              Have a nice one you too!
              1. NBV
                NBV 28 November 2019 11: 21 New
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                I pray that you too will know!
                1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 11: 45 New
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                  NBV (Nikolay)
                  I pray that you too will know!
                  But I don’t need to pray for knowledge, school and university education allow me to know and think on my own, and not ask for knowledge from God!
                  The trouble is that the true scientific knowledge that the Soviet school gave you is now intensively replacing a booty called religious education. "That is, instead of real knowledge that makes a person free, because you can think of yourself, you are trying to push into the younger generation, obedience to the will not even of God, but of the Russian Orthodox Church. It’s you and your kind that are fooling modern youth with their pseudo-religiosity, making dumb and obedient flocks of smart thinking people.
                  So "pray" and more, maybe it will help!
                  1. NBV
                    NBV 28 November 2019 14: 45 New
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                    Thank! Your words are a compliment to me, because I am not Russian and I do not belong to the Russian Orthodox Church, and I do not have a particularly tender opinion about her bishop and about the ethno-phyletism that she preaches. And the debate about scientific and metaphysical knowledge is not from yesterday, but Orthodoxy teaches that faith and reason are both sides of knowledge, and true knowledge of the world is Revelation. I also have two higher educations.
            2. Hantengri 28 November 2019 18: 13 New
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              Quote: NBV
              Spiritual freedom and truth are closely related, as Christ says: “Know the truth, and it will set you free.”

              That is, as I understand it, about the fact that:
              Quote: NBV
              Stalin is a classic Russophobe who personally gave the order to kill millions.

              Did Jesus Christ tell you personally? I wonder how He informed you about this? Himself condescended, or sent an angel of the Lord? And even more interesting - what substances did you use before? laughing
          2. kalibr 28 November 2019 12: 14 New
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            Alexander, did you yourself get acquainted with the archives of the convicts, at least with some? Even officially in the 30s, it was recognized that among them were falsified. It is clear that these were games in the objectivity of Soviet justice. But it was ... and how many did not get into these games?
            1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 12: 31 New
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              kalibr (Vyacheslav)
              Alexander, did you yourself get acquainted with the archives of the convicts, at least with some?
              I got acquainted with those that are publicly available on the Internet. The question is how objective and truthful are the Internet.
              Even officially in the 30s, it was recognized that among them were falsified.
              Does this mean the Beria rehabilitation? So I do not claim that everyone is completely guilty there, I argue that there are MOST guilty. And judicial errors are inherent in any countries and any systems. What in the USA are all guilty, or are they now in Russia? Mistakes occurred even in the late USSR. Instead of Chikatilo, they shot someone?
              It is clear that these were games in the objectivity of Soviet justice.
              Soviet justice was much more objective than modern justice, do you not know this ?!
              But it was ... and how many did not get into these games?
              Well, let’s say in my grandmother’s family my father and sibling were repressed. The first one was missing and we don’t know his fate at all, and the second one spent 15 years in the camp after the war, though there were persistent rumors of what was happening. I have never seen any one or the other criminal cases, so I simply don’t undertake to judge the legality or non-legality of their arrest.
              However, I can emphasize that neither the grandmother, nor anyone from her large family was in any way oppressed and did not experience any pressure as a repressed family.
              Almost the same can be said about my grandfather. He is from a wealthy, wealthy family of Don Cossacks. And his father and his uncle served with whites with the rank of one esaul, the second drove aside, both disappeared somewhere during the civilian, there were rumors that one of them emigrated, the second simply disappeared. However, this did not stop my grandfather from graduating from the artillery school, getting an officer rank, being a battery commander, and also joining the party and simultaneously being the commissar of this battery.
              1. kalibr 29 November 2019 07: 30 New
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                You wrote interesting things. In general, I have already noticed that you are a smart person. But ... I learned more. You were not in the archives, you did not hold documents in your hands with files. I meant, by the way, even Doberiev’s affairs, there were such ones. Regarding the objectivity of Soviet justice ... it was no higher than modern. It was just that his employees had slightly different motivations. I’m reading right now the documents of the party archive on the employees of the law enforcement agencies of the 30s ... For which they were expelled from the party ... The general impression is this: everything is as always! Like now. Only now, bribes and hacking have increased. The country has become richer! That's all. And you see - you again pass on to personal experience. And he ... and the "law of large numbers" are not friends. I will have an article about it ... read.
            2. Ros 56 28 November 2019 12: 35 New
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              It is quite possible that there were also falsified ones, given the level of education and culture after the Civil War, when the color of the nation was essentially knocked out on both sides. What about 5 million denunciations of one another, or are they aliens?
              1. BAI
                BAI 28 November 2019 13: 22 New
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                What about 5 million denunciations of one another, or are they aliens?

                Very good question.
                As you know, for political reasons under Stalin, 3 people were convicted (for the entire time he was in power).



                And how many millions of denunciations were sifted out by the "bloody NKVD", especially when you consider that the arrests were carried out not only on denunciations?
      2. Octopus 28 November 2019 15: 17 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        you can bring a copy of Stalin’s order on the "killing of millions"

        Somehow I went this way when discussing the issue. When the papers were found, it turned out that Yakovlev had faked them. Where is the signature, show the original signature. Signed up? From Shvernik and ask.
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        If you take and meticulously investigate cases, then in 95% of cases it turns out that the defendant is either a killer, or a thief, or a real spy and enemy of the people.

        There was a recent discussion about the Stalin priest. A list of GRU chiefs and their fate was given. Perhaps you can agree with you, I shot for the case.
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        By the way, do you even know how many people went through the so-called "Stalinist repression"?

        According to the information of Rudenko, 4 million according to the 58th Criminal Code of the RSFSR and similar.
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        Compare the number of prisoners then and the number of convicts now, you will be extremely surprised, now you are sitting no less than under Stalin.

        You're lying. For the 53rd year, 2,482 million, for 2018, 0.692 million. Your more prosperous comrades remember the USSR early 30s and the current USA.
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        Not smart to learn - just spoil!

        You really like this phrase, I see.
      3. Hantengri 28 November 2019 17: 56 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        I'll tell you more, he cursed every day bathed in the blood of babies and virgins,

        What an irrational use of virgins! Don't you find? laughing Maniac, in a word! wassat laughing
        1. Octopus 28 November 2019 19: 34 New
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          Quote: HanTengri
          What an irrational use of virgins!

          He was the one who trolled Comrade Beria.
          1. Hantengri 28 November 2019 21: 31 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            He was the one who trolled Comrade Beria.

            What is it like? In the sense: "Lavrenty, you’re in ... etching 24/365, already there, but I, here (look) - I’m hosh, I’m bathed ..."? Yes?
            1. Octopus 28 November 2019 22: 42 New
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              Quote: HanTengri
              already already

              It seems that Lavrenty Palych did not have such a problem. Well, they talk.
              1. Hantengri 28 November 2019 22: 56 New
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                Quote: Octopus
                Well, they talk.

                The OBS agency is another historical source! lol
                1. Amurets 29 November 2019 06: 24 New
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                  Quote: HanTengri
                  The OBS agency is another historical source!

                  Quote: HanTengri
                  The OBS agency is another historical source!

                  Moreover, it is very "Accurate and Objective." I will not even give examples of how a mammoth was inflated from a fly.
                2. Octopus 29 November 2019 15: 05 New
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                  Quote: HanTengri
                  OBS Agency

                  I did not want to continue the topic, but okay.

                  With regard to the issue under discussion, the saying "the grandmother remembered how she was a girl" is appropriate.
    2. BAI
      BAI 28 November 2019 13: 32 New
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      who personally gave the order to kill millions.

      Even if all death sentences were ordered by Stalin, there were 642 of them. Not that millions are not recruited, but even there will not be one. By the way, how many millions were shot by order of Stalin in your opinion?
      Fictional anti-Soviets compete who will lie more severely, calling the astronomical figures of the repressed and executed almost their own "bloody tyrant." Against this backdrop, dissident Roy Medvedev, limited to a "modest" figure in 40 million, looks like some kind of black sheep, an example of moderation and good faith:

      “Thus, the total number of victims of Stalinism reaches, according to my estimates, about 40 million people.”

      Toli is the case of his colleague on fraud and outright lies, the son of the repressed revolutionary Trotskyist A.V. Antonov-Ovseenko, without a shadow of embarrassment, calls a double figure:

      “These estimates are very, very approximate, but I’m sure of one thing: the Stalinist regime bleed the people, destroying more 80 million his best sons. "

      Professional “perestroika” led by A. N. Yakovlev, a former member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, are already talking about 100 million:

      “According to the most conservative estimates of the specialists of the rehabilitation commission, our country lost about 100 million people during the years of Stalin's rule. This number includes not only the repressed themselves, but also the doomed members of their families and even children who might have been born, but have not yet been born. ”

      But the writer Igor Bunich without hesitation claims that all of these "100 million people were ruthlessly exterminated."

      However, this is not the limit. The absolute record was set by Boris Nemtsov, who announced on November 7, 2003 in the program “Freedom of Speech” on NTV channel about 150 million a man allegedly lost by the Russian state after 1917.

      What figure do you personally adhere to?
      1. NBV
        NBV 28 November 2019 14: 58 New
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        If you think that 642 is a more acceptable number than a million, then this in itself speaks of the degradation of your values. In this case, you only consider the victims of Stalinism in the USSR and you must add those whom the Communists killed in the countries of Eastern Europe, which the USSR occupied and controlled the puppets of the Bolshevik governments - Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany and to a lesser extent Yugoslavia.
        1. BAI
          BAI 28 November 2019 17: 30 New
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          Of course, 642 is a more acceptable number. Because there are no millions of shots. And this is important, because everything else is a lie and pulling an owl on a globe.
      2. Operator 28 November 2019 15: 10 New
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        In this stream of nonsense, the main thing is lost - if there weren’t 40 million people who died during the period 1917-1991 (victims of the October Revolution, foreign intervention, Civil, Soviet-Polish, Soviet-Finnish wars, World War II and other military conflicts, as well as victims of hunger, collectivization, repression, etc.), then the population of our country would have been 400 million dead - victims of German and Japanese occupation, Nazi genocide and the American nuclear bombing.

        Plus the corresponding number of unborn descendants.
        1. meandr51 28 November 2019 21: 02 New
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          Write a science fiction novel about this subject. Nobel literature is provided. You are just the new Solzhenitsyn!
    3. meandr51 28 November 2019 21: 01 New
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      Guest from 1989? It’s better to climb back to your "Twinkle" ...
  • Operator 28 November 2019 10: 39 New
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    Everything is logical.

    In 1920, following the results of the Finnish-Russian wars, the RSFSR ceded Finland the Pechenga region and other Russian territories, in 1940 and 1947, the USSR returned the Russian territories to it and took some Finnish territories as compensation for damage to the Finnish- Russian, Soviet-Finnish and World War II.

    In the case of Finland’s attempt to revise WWII results, this will be compensated by the entire remaining territory of Finland.
    1. Moskovit 28 November 2019 10: 54 New
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      As far as I think, besides the stubborn Natsik, nobody wants revenge there. On the contrary, they are afraid that we would not take them back)).
      This spring was a funny story with me. I was in Helsinki. We took a taxi. Driving a Negro)). Just a little coal from Somalia! We talked. He likes Finland, he moved his family, the Finns are good. Then he says, suddenly. And you, the Finns do not like Russian. I wonder why? You are too noisy, arrogant.
      So blacks are nicer for them)
      1. meandr51 28 November 2019 21: 03 New
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        They have not yet seen our motorized infantry ...
  • RUSS 28 November 2019 10: 48 New
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    Another crap from Samsonov.
    Complete game, how can one manipulate the facts? Why rape history so? For the sake of whom and why? The fact of aggression in person, the USSR was thrown out of the League of Nations for this, in the Union itself they did not like to talk about this war, as well as about the Polish campaign, since it was precisely aggression and capture.
    1. Fibrizio 28 November 2019 11: 29 New
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      Exactly the same authors in another country talked about the need to expand living space to the east, about the world struggle with the Jews and equating other people with subhumanities, especially the idea fluttered against communism.

      The methods were also similar. Remember how the Poles attacked the peaceful cities of the burghers and atrocities?
      Indeed, precisely for this, the indignant country “X” declared war on them.
    2. Fraracol_2 28 November 2019 18: 51 New
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      Absolutely right.
    3. meandr51 28 November 2019 21: 13 New
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      When voting on the expulsion of the USSR from the League of Nations, the Scandinavian states abstained. They knew who was right. However, if some organization or some government acts against our country and impedes the return of the original Russian lands, then all the worse for them.
      By the way, Western countries did not have anything against the return to the USSR of Poland and the Baltic states. It was then that they got into a fuss about this topic. The Red Army simply crossed the Curzon line, agreed upon by the Entente powers, as the Russian border, back in 1919. It did not occur to Hitler to give territory to not only Stalin, but Churchill as well.
  • Pavel57 28 November 2019 11: 30 New
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    Russian tsars were very generous people, especially to the national suburbs. The Russian empire was built not due to the exploitation of the colonies, like the Western empires, but due to the “internal colonization” of the Russian people.
    For the USSR, this was also typical.
    1. Fibrizio 28 November 2019 11: 37 New
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      Looking to which. The Bolsheviks got the backward Caucasus and the wild steppe in the south. Civilization in our understanding came there only in the 20th century, and probably closer to the end of its first half.
      1. dmmyak40 29 November 2019 23: 59 New
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        Isn't that the wild steppe in the south with Rostov, Ekaterinodar, Novorossiysk, Tuapse? With some of the most fertile lands in Russia?
  • kalibr 28 November 2019 12: 08 New
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    Quote: Civil
    Fools do not know their happiness.

    They know, but other fools envy them.
  • kalibr 28 November 2019 12: 16 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    By the way, can you give a copy of Stalin’s order on the "killing of millions"?

    Enough and copies of those orders under which is his signature. There ... a lot. And these are not Chukhons and not peasants ...
    1. Alexander Suvorov 28 November 2019 14: 31 New
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      kalibr (Vyacheslav)
      There ... a lot. And these are not Chukhons and not peasants ...
      That's it, that is not peasants! If there were peasants no one, including you, would not blather. Because, who is interested in the life of a peasant, but the fact that most of the lousy intelligentsia is there is true. Only here, grandfather Lenin called the Russian intelligentsia not the color of the nation, but its stool, which I strongly agree with him on. So, Comrade Stalin, following Lenin's precepts, she mowed her down. Yes, it’s a pity that it’s not completely. As a result, a generation of 60s was born, which ruined the great country.
      By the way, although you’re not in the 60s, you have nevertheless made your contribution, and you’re still trying to make a shame that you frankly do not paint you in my eyes, either as a person, much less as a person imagining himself a historian.
      1. A_2010 28 November 2019 16: 13 New
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        The intelligentsia is primarily scientists, doctors, engineers, teachers, followed by writers and so on. That's why the scoop was doomed to self-decay. such people in him were not appreciated. and you continue to blame all the people who could create. you do not understand
  • Trapperxnumx 28 November 2019 12: 32 New
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    Yeah Finns are villains, kings are fools. One author is smart and knows everything.
    Meanwhile, the tsars knew what they were doing and the Finnish people showed well their loyalty to Russia during the Crimean War.
    The obstinate town of Kukkola
    On June 6, at 20.00 p.m., all four steamboats anchored 4 miles from Gamla Karlebu. The commanders decided to send longboats and boats to the city - four ships armed with small 3-pound cannons, and five unarmed ships. The landing party consisted of 21 officers and 231 sailors. In the subsequent battle with the Russians and the Finns, 180 people directly participated. So far, nothing portended trouble. Having carefully examined the city through a telescope, the British did not find any fortifications.
    On the Finnish coast did not sit idly by. The merchant Andres Donner informed the residents of the town that the British had already ravaged several villages along the Gulf of Finland and were going to do the same with Gamla Karlebu. He proposed the formation of self-defense units from local hunters and sealers, and also to inform the Russian command of the attack. The Russian troops, commanded by Major General Alexander Ivanovich von Wendt, sent to help two 6-pound guns and 20 Cossacks - this is all that at that time he could help the inhabitants of the town. The defenders scattered on the rocky shores and near the warehouses and took refuge there. At the distillery, they fired guns.
    At 21.30 p.m. an English landing under the command of Lieutenant Charles Wise reached the harbor. The lieutenant himself and several soldiers, holding up a white flag, went out for negotiations with the city administration. On the shore, they were met by Andres Donner, Otto Kintzel and Ou Forsberg, who also stood with white panels. Weiss said that he intends to destroy warehouses, confiscate or drown local vessels, and also burn state property, including a distillery. The Finns replied that they would not allow this and would defend themselves.

    Weiss returned to the longboats and ordered the attack to begin. But as soon as the flotilla moved, from a distance of 500-800 m, the Finnish arrows started firing at it. Regular Finnish units in the Russian army in the 1840s received the Hartung fittings, which used a modified pointed bullet, developed by Colonel Kulikovsky. The aiming range of such chokes ranged from 800 to 1 steps (that is, up to about 200 m). Ordinary Finnish hunters did not lag behind the regulars, who massively bought these guns for their fishing needs. Given the long loading time of the fitting, the hunters decided to take in quantity and in battle had 600-2 guns per person.

    The 140 Finnish riflemen scattered along the shore and at the warehouses became a big problem for the British. The core of the Finnish cannon at the end pierced the side of one of the longboats. And then the shooter Matts Kunkkonen, as in a dash, drove a bullet into the forehead of Lieutenant Edward Carrington, who just at that moment explained to the Marines that in the city it was necessary to destroy and burn it. Evil tongues claim that the bullet hit Carrington on the phrase: "and then burn the distillery ...", defeating the Finnish addiction to strong alcohol.
    The sailors returned fire, but they did not see the attackers and fired volley after volley into the white light, like a penny. In total, the British fired about 300 shots that wounded four Russian soldiers at the guns. The losses of the British in the landing party were much greater: seven sailors and officers were killed, 21 were injured, 28 people were captured. Finns and Russians captured two longboats, one of them steam. Two more longboats were sunk. The losses were distributed among the ships as follows:

    “One”: 6 killed, 17 wounded;
    “Walcher”: 1 killed, 4 wounded, 28 people were taken prisoner;
    “Leopard”, on which the Finnish shooters fired from coastal cliffs: 6 killed, 14 wounded, three of them died from wounds.
    The rest of the landing returned to the ships on June 7 at 2.30 a.m. Attempts by the British in revenge to shoot the city from cannons were unsuccessful - wheeled frigates could not get to it. In addition, the next day, Russians arrived in the city: up to 1 people with artillery and equipment.
    I must say that this was the first victory of the Russian troops over the British. A rain of awards woke up for all participants in the battle: for example, hunter Matts Kunkkonen was awarded the George Cross and received a substantial monetary reward. Memorable silver medals and cash awards distinguished other defenders of the town.

    https://warspot.ru/10097-krymskaya-voyna-srazhenie-u-halkokari
    The first victory of the Russian troops over the British in the Crimean War! And where? In Finland, by the forces of the Finns themselves and on their initiative.
    You can draw the remaining conclusions yourself.
    1. Fibrizio 28 November 2019 12: 37 New
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      Rather, "All are bad, we are good. Everyone always attacked us, but we only defended ourselves. But sometimes we need to defend ourselves by attacking small states ourselves, but this is not aggression, this is a forced defense .... and they themselves are to blame for what we are they were attacked, they didn’t want to give up their ancestral lands and allow our troops unlimitedly to their naval and military bases. "
      It is enough to simply present such rhetoric, for example, on behalf of the United States to the Russian Federation, and for patriots it will immediately burn out from such reasoning.

      Imagine that now Poland will say that Kaliningrad is threatening her (and he is really threatening) and will demand that he be transferred to her. Local forum users are unlikely to appreciate such a joke.
      1. A_2010 28 November 2019 16: 09 New
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        But I think only local will be FOR
        1. Fibrizio 28 November 2019 16: 27 New
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          Yeah, NATO will send troops, hold a referendum there in Kaliningrad, and 90% will want to become EU citizens there.
          And our State Duma, RAZZZZ, and approve it, legitimately, it was a referendum. It must be given along with tanks and property.
          When you start to shift events that were, but change participants, all the absurdity of what happened becomes noticeable.
          Do you yourself believe that if NATO seizes Kaliningrad and holds a referendum, suppose even an honest one, the Russian Federation will accept it sometime?
          1. A_2010 28 November 2019 16: 48 New
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            You did not understand...
            What does NATO have to do with it? if the Bloc introduces troops then this is war, and everyone will not be up to referenda at all
            I'm talking about the fact that if a referendum is announced in Kaliningrad, remain in the Russian Federation or enter the region into Poland \ Germany, then I think that somewhere around 90% will vote FOR
            1. Fibrizio 28 November 2019 16: 50 New
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              I understand you perfectly. But for such a referendum, ours will hang local people on trees. And only NATO troops can save them.
              And I made a parallel with a referendum in the Crimea. The only difference is that we can physically prevent this, unlike the Ukrainians in 2014.
              1. A_2010 28 November 2019 18: 53 New
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                "Ours" is this I guess gebnya? Well, bravo) you yourself didn’t live like that and others shouldn’t)
                although you know. I’m thinking that many of this gebni will also be FOR :)))
      2. meandr51 28 November 2019 21: 24 New
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        Why imagine? Both the United States and Poland are constantly threatening the Russian Federation. Recently, the US Defense Ministry announced that it would support the Japanese attack on the Kuril Islands. And before that, she promised to bomb Kaliningrad. So we need to say less nonsense and respect our interests. This is not possible without military force.
        1. S-400 2 December 2019 12: 40 New
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          Did you directly promise to bomb Kaliningrad and help attack the Kuril Islands? References to reliable sources of information is not difficult to bring? By "trustworthy" I did not mean confusion in your head or any "Constantinople" :))
          1. meandr51 2 December 2019 22: 10 New
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            Do not want to believe and seek - your problem. And promised to bomb, yes. After the attack of the Russian Federation on the Baltic. This is their excuse. But everyone understood everything. MoD plans of different countries are required to develop. Silently. But through the media to threaten - this is propaganda and preparation for aggression. In our country, no one writes in the media about the defeat of the Baltic states, Poland and the Czech Republic "if they attack us." Although there are reasons for this.
  • Sergelis 28 November 2019 12: 46 New
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    why not say something extra.
    where nobody spread rot, we are to blame.
    There was no Polish language in Poznan - only German. But the Russians are to blame.
    Finns in the 18th massacred all Russians. Again, the Russians are to blame. The Finns defended their identity.
    Balts are now the same.
    as in that fable - you are to blame for the fact that I want to eat
  • A_2010 28 November 2019 13: 13 New
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    Noble sketch))
    Now a new enemy is being created in Russia - the Finns! Bravo))
    After the phrase “As you know, Finnish tribes never had their own statehood.” I stopped reading at all. the author is not aware that in the time of the tribes the very concept of the state did not exist at all. and this is true in general for all present and departing nations, oh, excuse me, tribes
    1. Yellow bubble 28 November 2019 13: 28 New
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      Why did the Finns take out the entire population of the Karelian Isthmus in half a year? If they were not preparing for war? So peaceful, they still want Russian land, stay tuned for Finnish news.
      1. Octopus 28 November 2019 15: 45 New
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        Quote: Yellow Bubble
        Why did the Finns take out the entire population of the Karelian Isthmus in half a year? If they did not prepare for war

        Then, that conversations on this subject comrade Molotov began quite early.
        1. RUSS 28 November 2019 17: 37 New
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          Quote: Octopus
          Then, that conversations on this subject comrade Molotov began quite early.

          The Molotov Cocktail appeared during the Finnish War, but the Finns called it Molotov Cocktail.
          1. Fraracol_2 28 November 2019 18: 44 New
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            There is a great Finnish fighting song "No Hammers". Stress on the last syllable. I highly recommend listening to and watching the translation on the Internet.
            1. meandr51 28 November 2019 21: 27 New
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              If you are a Finn, then you are interested. We don’t. "No, Mannerheim!"
    2. meandr51 2 December 2019 22: 12 New
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      Nothing new. They only temporarily subsided in the shadow of Soviet power. And now they thought that we had weakened ...
  • clidon 28 November 2019 16: 07 New
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    The attempt to smooth the story is not the first and not the last. The Soviet Union did exactly what colossal stupidity did - assuring itself of its immense power, Stalin decided to show who the master of the former province was in the house. She ideally suited it - the Finns fell under our influence according to the agreement with Germany, the world was not up to them, victory seemed to be a matter of a couple of three weeks.
    Of course, the then USSR understood (as opposed to the author of the article) that attacking neighbors was a rotten thing, so they took an example from an ally - they provoked and "struck back."
    As a result, a small country showed the USSR that it wasn’t easy, we suffered heavy losses and finally assured the Führer that "Russia is a colossus with feet of clay." The “little victorious” effect was not what was expected.
    1. hohol95 28 November 2019 16: 41 New
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      Stalin or the "Big" MILITARY?
      And Finland "on what counted"?
      To help from the "foremother" of Sweden?
      Or countries with a "developed DEMOCRACY" - Great Britain and France?
      1. clidon 28 November 2019 22: 43 New
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        “The king is good, the boyars are again bad”
        What should she hope for? And how to behave?
      2. meandr51 2 December 2019 22: 15 New
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        Yes, in Norway, an English expeditionary force had already begun to form; the Anglo-French air squadron flew to Syria and Iran to bomb Baku. All against the USSR.
        If ours had been delayed with the lowering of the Finns and the pushing of the border from the city of Lenin, then 2 MB would have looked different.
        1. Octopus 2 December 2019 23: 39 New
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          Quote: meandr51
          an English expeditionary force has already begun to form in Norway

          What ???
    2. meandr51 28 November 2019 21: 29 New
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      Well, yes, it would be better to give Leningrad, and then Moscow. If the Germans would advance from the old border, then this would be inevitable. As for the Hitler treaties ... are you seriously?
      1. Hautibek Khuranov 28 November 2019 22: 28 New
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        So what, did you manage to secure Leningrad? With your strategy, the city has become extinct for 3 years. Not taken, but kept for extinction. The Red Army heroically held the blockade of the city. Because of this, it was worth making porridge, creating enemies number 1 for yourself.
        1. hohol95 29 November 2019 15: 19 New
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          The "life" of Leningrad upon its surrender to the German and Finnish would not be like life on the islands of Jersey and Guernsey!
          Having finished with the defeat of France in 1940, the Germans for some reason decided to occupy these territories. For what, excuse me, the need they needed a handful of islets off the coast of France with a population of thousands of people in 100 is hard to say. But the fact is that from 1940 to 1945 the crown lands of Britain were under German occupation.
          And within five years two flags were developed over the Channel Islands: Great Britain and Nazi Germany.

          Paradoxes of history. Germany’s occupation of British territories
          IN 2017
        2. The comment was deleted.
  • hohol95 28 November 2019 16: 14 New
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    Perhaps from the side of the USSR there was shelling! But the US no one remembers the Armored cruiser "Maine" !!!
    And WHERE about. Cuba from the USA. And at what distance was the USSR-Finland border from Leningrad in 1939!
  • Alexander Greene 28 November 2019 17: 53 New
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    A few words about the national question

    Some comments accuse the Finnish people of ingratitude and draw conclusions about how bad they are. But there are no bad nations, and the Finns cannot be blamed for the fact that they once wanted to separate from Russia. This is an objective process. Any nationality goes through the stages of its development and turns into a nation, because nations are an inevitable product and an inevitable form of the bourgeois era of social development.

    Along with the development of capitalism, a local national bourgeoisie appears, which puts its national interests first, and like any bourgeoisie wants privileges and benefits for itself in national affairs.

    The first school where the bourgeoisie studies nationalism is market. It was then that the bourgeoisie manifested the first national identity, and it began to fight for independence, the goal of which was to protect its sales markets.

    She has in her service the intelligentsia, which brings to the masses the ideas of nationalism. As a result, the whole nation wakes up with a national feeling and also joins the struggle for independence. That is why in the years 1917-1918 Finland, in the Composition of Russia of the Provisional Government, and then of Soviet Russia, was impossible to keep forcibly, and their independence was recognized.

    The Finnish bourgeoisie, with the support of Germany, crushed its Red Guard in order to maintain power, and with it the Russian diaspora in order to seize its property.

    When in 1922 there was a unification of the former suburbs of Tsarist Russia into the Soviet Union, and this became possible due to the fact that there was Soviet power in all the republics (the USSR is an association of Soviet republics), Finland did not exist, and therefore it was not in the USSR entered.

    In the 30s, feeling the mood of England, France, the United States, and the support of Germany, imperial appetites played out among the Finnish bourgeoisie, they wanted to profit from the whole world at the expense of the USSR, and therefore became more active, provoking a world war. But they miscalculated, the Soviet Union ended this campaign so quickly that a big war did not happen

    During World War II, Finland was an ally of Germany, but after several defeats from the Soviet Army, it pulled out of the war in time, and Stalin, in order not to have a clash with the United States and England, did not completely destroy Finland. The communists were weak there to raise an uprising, so Finland remained a bourgeois republic.

    Conclusion: All the interethnic frictions of the CAS with Finland are the result of the aggressive policy of the Finnish national bourgeoisie, and not of the entire Finnish people.
    1. andrew42 29 November 2019 11: 40 New
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      Everything is so, everything is so. But the people have to answer for their national elite. So it was, is, and will be. The question is the degree of responsibility, and not its availability.
    2. hohol95 29 November 2019 15: 22 New
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      Conclusion: All the interethnic frictions of the CAS with Finland are the result of the aggressive policy of the Finnish national bourgeoisie, and not of the entire Finnish people.

      The letter "P" was missed ...
      The people are not to blame ...
      I read in some books about the war - "We shout to them COMRADES, you are proletarians! And they are from machine guns for us ..."
      I’m calling the people to the army! And make him a SOLDIER!
    3. kiril1246 2 December 2019 20: 16 New
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      Quote: Alexander Green
      That is why in the years 1917-1918 Finland, in the Composition of Russia of the Provisional Government, and then of Soviet Russia, was impossible to keep forcibly, and their independence was recognized.

      The main reason for the desire for independence is the forcible Russification of Finland during the reign of Bobrikov, which caused a persistent denial of all Russian. Forgive your explanation, far-fetched.
      1. Alexander Greene 2 December 2019 22: 21 New
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        Quote: kiril1246
        Forgive your explanation, far-fetched.

        Explore the matter more deeply.
        "Marxism and the national question" I.V. Stalin, SS, T.2, S.290-367)
        1. kiril1246 3 December 2019 11: 30 New
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          Quote: Alexander Green
          Quote: kiril1246
          Forgive your explanation, far-fetched.

          Explore the matter more deeply.
          "Marxism and the national question" I.V. Stalin, SS, T.2, S.290-367)

          Once, the philosopher Thomas Aquinas, was debating whether the mole had eyes? The gardener who happened to be nearby proposed to catch a living mole in order to look at him and thereby resolve the dispute.
          "No!" - answered the philosopher. After all, the dispute is about the principle. Does a principle mole have principle eyes ... "
          The same goes for you. Instead of accepting the objective reality that the Finns experienced and continue to dislike everything Russian, dating back to tsarist times due to the extremely unsuccessful rule of tsarist governors, you are trying to appeal to dubious materials that have proved their complete failure , than witness the collapsed, built on the Stalinist patterns of the Soviet Union and as a result the expulsion of the Russian population from some former Soviet republics, as well as from some Russian regions , Based on the same very bad interethnic politics.
          1. Alexander Greene 3 December 2019 21: 10 New
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            Quote: kiril1246
            Instead of accepting the objective reality that the Finns experienced and continue to dislike everything Russian, dating back to tsarist times due to the extremely unsuccessful rule of tsarist governors, you are trying to appeal to dubious materials that have proved their complete failure h

            You see only what lies on the surface. On this occasion, Kozma Prutkov wrote that "If the sign" elephant "hangs on the lion’s cage, then do not believe your eyes."
  • Fraracol_2 28 November 2019 18: 41 New
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    We must pay tribute to the author. This is not easy, so put everything upside down.
  • mikle1999 28 November 2019 20: 53 New
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    Did I understand the author that the Finns were so eager to get involved in the war, defeat and enslave the peaceful USSR, that they fired on the territory of the USSR with cannons and killed the Soviet border guards? And only the courage and heroism of the Red Army and the leadership of the Soviet country saved us from the terrible fate of being occupied by grateful Finns?
    1. kiril1246 29 November 2019 07: 01 New
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      Quote: mikle1999
      that they fired cannons on the territory of the USSR and killed Soviet border guards

      This is a famous provocation, which is perfect under the leadership of Marshal Kulikov. Hitler apparently spied with his attack in Gleivitz in 1939.
      1. S-400 2 December 2019 12: 20 New
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        As BG sang: "according to new intelligence data" there was no Maynil Incident at all: it was invented from beginning to end by the Soviet agitation prop.
    2. meandr51 2 December 2019 22: 30 New
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      Correctly. After all, they wanted to do this together with England and France.
  • Hautibek Khuranov 28 November 2019 22: 18 New
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    Super-idiotic article, it’s necessary to write so much demagogy to present all the inside out.
    1. meandr51 2 December 2019 22: 32 New
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      Convincing, very convincing. Can I have the same arguments?
  • kiril1246 29 November 2019 06: 57 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    a Jew

    Jews can shoot. Trotsky allowed them in Gaza.
  • Durman_54 29 November 2019 07: 07 New
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    Their imperialist expansion, our vital need to push borders.
    Samsonov as usual.
  • kalibr 29 November 2019 07: 55 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    If there were peasants no one, including you, would not blather

    60% of those who came under repression are JUST A VILLAGE OF PEASANTS, just Stalin did not sign the lists on them, only on the ELITE ... That's why I wrote ... They just got more than the military and the intelligentsia.
  • kalibr 29 November 2019 08: 01 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Yes, it’s a pity that it’s not until the end.

    And who would then make a bomb and rockets? Who would serve the spiritual needs of those making bombs and rockets? Who would make films for your gifted peasants and teach their children, who would treat both those and others, and the leader himself, as well as those who make bombs and rockets? Pol Pot and Yeng Sari just started with the intelligentsia, believing, like you and Grandfather Lenin, that she was the root of evil. And ... how did it end?
  • kalibr 29 November 2019 08: 06 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    but nevertheless they contributed

    Of course! He strengthened the power of the country as best he could and as ordered. I read lectures in stinky cowsheds, that people cried already with emotion, like comrade. Brezhnev personally fights for peace and against US imperialism. You think at this work you could be mistaken or allow yourself a crooked smirk ... Ha! Not more than once, and then a kick in the ass and the deprivation of all privileges, even in school would not be taken. So the Central Committee ordered, and we executed !!! With soul, sincere faith in the triumph of the ideas of Marxism-Leninism and proletarian internationalism.
  • Charlie 29 November 2019 10: 04 New
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    Quote: Vasily50
    The author was embarrassed to write that the Finns, after registering * independence * immediately began with the assassination of RUSSIANs in the occupied territories.
    Fina 4 (four) times officially declared war on the SOVIET UNION. All wars began with provocations on the border and then with military operations. As soon as they received an answer, they immediately demanded help from the * world community *. At the conclusion of the peace, the Finns, in order to comply with the legality of a settlement, were forced to declare war first. Only in 1941, the Finns were so bold that they dared to declare war on the fourth day of military operations against the SOVIET UNION.
    By the way, military provocations at the border were carried out constantly. Only after 1945 did the Finns stop conducting military provocations, but they lured smugglers up to the present.

    In my opinion, in the 41st USSR, the first to attack Finland was either June 23 or June 24
    1. strannik1985 29 November 2019 10: 22 New
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      In my opinion, in the 41st USSR, the first to attack Finland was either June 23 or June 24

      Lies laughing By June 22, 1941, a group of German-Finnish troops was deployed in Finland with a total strength of 407,5 thousand people (the equivalent of 21,5 settlement divisions, of which 17,5 were Finnish and 4 German), German MH and TKA, based on Finnish ports, set minefields in the Gulf of Finland, Finnish submarines three days before Finland entered the war raided the Kunda Bay near the Estonian coast, and the operation was repeated on June 23-24 in the Suursaari region. The Finns provided the airfield of the German Kg 806 (14 Yu-88) which was mining the approaches to Kronstadt and for hitting the Stalin Canal. To test the airstrike on the Finns channel, on the night of June 22-23, DRGs of 16 people were sent.
      1. hohol95 29 November 2019 15: 40 New
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        And then with DRG, what happened? Or was she not found?
        1. strannik1985 29 November 2019 16: 16 New
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          On June 28, they tried to blow up the gateway, ran into the guards, made sure of a successful bombing and left. They organized an explosion on the Murmansk railway. By July 10, they returned to their own.
          1. hohol95 30 November 2019 21: 09 New
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            So the Vaskov foreman was not found on them with us! Sorry!
    2. andrew42 29 November 2019 11: 35 New
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      Yeah, and also attacked Georgia. He attacked the poor racketeers just like an angry farmer.
    3. hohol95 29 November 2019 15: 39 New
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      On June 21–25, German naval and air forces acted against the USSR from Finland

      WikiWiki
  • andrew42 29 November 2019 11: 26 New
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    The so-called Finnish War was a necessary and important thing for the USSR. From today's point of view of assessing the background and course of WWII, this is obvious. One can only envy the foresight of Stalin and the Politburo. As a result, the unbending Leningrad for 2 years fettered the most powerful grouping of forces of the "Hitler European Union". If not for this, in 1941-1943 the Nazis would have had significantly more forces on the main front. And the Finnish state got what it deserved in 1940. It took a long time for the retribution of the “Russian tears” to the impudent Finnish cat, starting with the Russian genocide in Finland in 1918. The Finns are first allies of the German Kaiser, then allies of the Entente, preoccupied with the “crusade,” then allies of the Nazi Reich. Did you have to kiss them? Forgiveness? give wife to uncle? - They broke it, and rightly so, they did it. Let them also say thanks that they were called the “White Finns”, apparently out of respect for the Red Finns who died in 1918. They broke it just as much as needed, broke it at the right time, when Hitler went mad against the Entente yesterday, occupied exactly the territory that could have been kept, guaranteeingly pushing the "bourgeois satellites" from the suburbs of Leningrad. And the fact that the losses are big is another story, the questions to the military are the same as in 1941. To the military, not to politicians. Politically - absolutely right decision, politically correctly executed. Here Our Truth, it is necessary to respect it, and not to listen to the gay-crying whining robbers.
  • Lucky guy 29 November 2019 14: 00 New
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    By 1942, the Finns occupied Petrozavodsk and other cities of Soviet Karelia, which had never before been a part of Finland, having organized concentration camps there, following the example of the fascist older brother - Germany. Petrozavodsk was liberated by the Red Army only in 1944 in the summer. Hitler repeatedly visited Germany and in 1942 flew to Helsinki with his retinue for the birthday of G. Mannerheim. In relation to the Russian population of Karelia (not to the Finns and Karelians), a policy of genocide and famine was carried out. Even the Germans were more humane. Finland received weapons from the countries of the Hitler coalition - from Germany and Italy, as well as small arms from Japan. Therefore, the truth is the fact that Finland had the intention to continue the seizure of the North-Western territories of the USSR up to the Urals, and by no means only the return of the territories that had ceded to Russia during the Winter War of 39-40.
  • cebadores 29 November 2019 17: 23 New
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    Little peaceful Finland .... Thanks to those who poured paint on Mannerheim’s board in St. Petersburg and removed it! By the way, here's what I noticed when traveling along the Karelian Isthmus and the northern Ladoga. Finns are watching this territory. Look after burial places, put memorable signs. It does them honor of course! But somehow alarming ... In one place where there was a farmstead and there were only foundations, even the guest book is in the box. The descendants of those who lived here make notes about the visits and the book number 2 lies there. The first one is already over, they’ve taken away ..... If that happens, the Finns will demand Karelia back. "Fought, they say, so bring it here!" (C)
  • Viktor HanelisBogatishev 30 November 2019 21: 17 New
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    Comrades, it’s time to correctly call the so-called Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, "concluded in response to the Munich agreement of future allies, the agreement is called:" Non-aggression treaty between Germany and the Soviet Union "- there is no need to replicate pro-Western propaganda!
  • Niki71 1 December 2019 15: 09 New
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    A good article, many facts have already flashed on the Internet, on the "Goblin" channel, etc., but the author is well done, so to prepare and put it all together it's worth reading and waiting to continue!
    And then, with this propaganda of capitalism and the blackening of everything Soviet, we are ready to turn it upside down, (we have almost put the Mannerheim in St. Petersburg, and after all, except for liberals, the Ministry of Culture has lit up there) We don’t have a loan at all, but what remember now they are misinterpreting!
    We look forward to continuing, with impatience!

    And then we already have some figures, cropping a photo and leaving only Russian inscriptions Finnish camps manage to give out for the GULA !!!
    1. Niki71 1 December 2019 15: 23 New
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      Why blocked the comment, tried to post a photo of the Finnish concentration camp for the Russian population!
      During the occupation of Soviet Karelia by the Finns in Petrozavodsk, six concentration camps were created to contain local Russian-speaking residents.
      And immediately ban, for what ???
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. S-400 2 December 2019 12: 12 New
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      Dear, you somehow fell far behind life. Even Russian propaganda does not deny the fact that the above photograph is staged and taken much later than 19.09.44/XNUMX/XNUMX. You are probably the last of the Mohicans who do not know this.
      1. meandr51 2 December 2019 22: 35 New
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        Maybe the camp and the staged inscription? And did they bring the children from Leningrad?
        1. Octopus 2 December 2019 23: 57 New
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          Quote: meandr51
          Maybe the camp and the staged inscription? And did they bring the children from Leningrad?

          No, the camp and the inscription are original. And local children, from Petrozavodsk.

          In the liberated Red Army Petrozavodsk are these children behind the barbed wire. The famous photo of Galina Sanko. It was believed that the picture shows the inhumanity of the white Finns, but there is another opinion.
  • Russian Bear_2 1 December 2019 15: 15 New
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    Interesting article thanks.
  • S-400 2 December 2019 12: 53 New
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    Of the entire article, only this phrase is true: "The Russians paid for (including blood) the civilizational, spiritual and material take-off of the national suburbs, including Finland." This is the point. While all other empires mercilessly squeezed all the juices from the "outskirts" with the goal of a good life for the citizens of the metropolis, we had everything turned upside down: squeezed all the juices from the Russian serf slave so that the suburbs lived well. Moreover, there are a lot of strange people, who are proud of this monstrous fact!
  • Sergey49 2 December 2019 14: 09 New
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    An article from the category We will turn your ailment into valor.
  • Sergey Smirnov_3 16 December 2019 11: 24 New
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    When you read the history of Russia, stupidity, narrowness, ambition, greed and sometimes the betrayal of its leaders always amaze.
    The thought comes of how we are different from India ...
    Also, whoever wants to has it.
    Who wants to play off with whom he wants ..
    Any intelligence realizes its goals. Any country does what it wants with the hands of our own people ..
    Shame and disgrace for centuries ..
    Poor Slavs ....