Military Review

Russian machine gun AL-12 in the West was called "horror on the battlefield"

124
Russian machine gun AL-12 in the West was called "horror on the battlefield"

American edition The National Interest called the new variation of the Russian large-caliber assault machine ASH-12 "horror on the battlefield," while praising it.


The author of the article published on the pages of the publication notes that the Russian large-caliber assault machine ASH-12 was specifically designed for special forces of the FSB of the Russian Federation. It is used in cases where the range of the shot does not matter, i.e. is an "weapons melee. "

Under this machine, the author writes, a special large-caliber cartridge 12,7 × 55 mm SC-130 was developed, with which you can "instantly neutralize the target", which allows you to "avoid lengthy shootings." Also noteworthy is the fact that this cartridge can use three types of bullets for various situations: armor-piercing with a protruding core, shell and two-bullet with tandem placement of bullets. This emphasizes the tactical versatility of the weapon.

Forget the AK-47 ... It's a new horror on the battlefield

- the author of the article declares.

ASH-12 (SHAK-12) - a large-caliber assault machine for close combat, created according to the layout scheme of bullpup. The weapon is equipped with Picatinny rails for mounting sights. It was developed at TsKIB SOO (a division of the Tula Instrument Design Bureau - KBP) by order of the FSB of Russia, and was adopted by the FSB special forces in the 2011 year.

We add on our own that this is the second article of the same author, dedicated to the Russian automatic machine ASH-12. The first also appeared in The National Interest this spring.
124 comments
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  1. Teberii
    Teberii 21 November 2019 09: 45 New
    -12
    Americans really need such a machine, they will copy it like AK again and will push it to the domestic market. And an article is needed as an advertisement.
    1. Cut Samshitov
      Cut Samshitov 21 November 2019 09: 51 New
      +11
      Quote: Teberii
      Americans really need such a machine, they will copy it like AK again and will push it to the domestic market. And an article is needed as an advertisement.

      First, they will announce the next sanctions for the development of "inhumane weapons."
      1. YOUR
        YOUR 21 November 2019 11: 43 New
        +12
        This machine is not for the battlefield, it is a weapon of specialists. In very limited quantities. And as for inhumane weapons, let the police use expansive bullets.
        1. ProkletyiPirat
          ProkletyiPirat 21 November 2019 12: 17 New
          +4
          Quote: YOUR
          as for inhumane weapons, let the police use expansive bullets.

          In general, this is a completely reasonable decision, minimal return and, therefore, accurate automatic fire, maximum damage to the enemy, which means a high stopping effect.
          Or maybe you are confused by what is prohibited in the army, but used in the police? So here it’s just the same logical, it is forbidden in the army because of poor accuracy (a feature of all doom dumas), and the police are allowed because of the stopping effect, and there are places where you can’t do without them at all for example in airplanes, but the main thing: the police shoot if and only if there is no other choice already no. That is, I explain, first you ask with your voice, then with a warning, then with your limbs (if the distance allows), and only then with defeat, if you need to stop and capture without harming, that is, tasers, in all other cases the detainee is to blame.
          1. YOUR
            YOUR 21 November 2019 12: 25 New
            +6
            Nothing bothers me. Let them use anything against themselves against their citizens. But they do not teach others how to live in a similar situation.
            1. Vlad.by
              Vlad.by 21 November 2019 13: 26 New
              +5
              So they apply. First they shoot, and then they ask ...
              With ASh12 you have to shoot less.
              1. YOUR
                YOUR 21 November 2019 13: 41 New
                -2
                Do not have to. This is our weapon the United States does not have and never will.
          2. Recon
            Recon 21 November 2019 19: 27 New
            +2
            then on the limbs

            As if a limb from this machine would not tear off a limb wassat
            1. ProkletyiPirat
              ProkletyiPirat 21 November 2019 20: 52 New
              -2
              Quote: Recon
              As if a limb from this machine would not tear off a limb

              Well, in fact, a criminal with a torn limb will not run away and will not strike back, so such "inhumanity" is reasonable, even if he tears the Bosko and smashes it to the floor of the apartment, it will be "collateral damage in preventing the crime" ...
              In fact, the police did not give weapons to shoot and detain, but to prevent criminals from even thinking in disobedience and God forbid an attack on a law enforcement officer.
              1. Recon
                Recon 21 November 2019 21: 15 New
                +1
                I completely agree, and besides, ordinary trunks will never receive such trunks.
            2. tatarin1972
              tatarin1972 22 November 2019 10: 18 New
              0
              I don’t know about the ammunition for this product, but 12,7 × 108 when it gets hit, the body breaks completely.
          3. oprovergatel
            oprovergatel 19 February 2020 11: 34 New
            0
            Your sequence of actions is not about the American police. They prefer to discard all unnecessary tinsel and start immediately from the last point - shooting to kill.
            1. ProkletyiPirat
              ProkletyiPirat 19 February 2020 22: 05 New
              0
              There is no need to demonize the local police, they only have distortions in some states where there are too many weapons and too many ghettos, in the rest of the USA as well as in our country.
              And in any case, a citizen must to fulfill all the requirements of the police without any show off or body movements.
              1. oprovergatel
                oprovergatel 4 March 2020 18: 12 New
                0
                So that's the point. That there is a mass of video recordings, where no one dares to the brave cops, there are several of them, and there is only one detainee, and at the output there is the corpse of the detainee, in which a pair of clips.
                1. ProkletyiPirat
                  ProkletyiPirat 4 March 2020 18: 44 New
                  0
                  You take these videos and make the layout on the map of the USA with their states and cities, questions will disappear by themselves ... This is if you objectively compare.

                  Well, or you can continue to listen to propaganda ravings that are pro-American that anti-American ...
                  1. oprovergatel
                    oprovergatel 5 March 2020 15: 15 New
                    0
                    Again! I'm talking about the warm, you're talking about the green.

                    I’m not talking about WHERE people are felled right and left, but WHY.

                    https: // cont.ws / @ sergal / 315350

                    Here (to remove the gaps) there is a very good analysis of the reasons for this hysterical shooting at unarmed and not currently resisting the late, oncology writer Andrei Cruz. A man was a big fan of everything that shoots, he knew how to and loved. He wandered around the world, lived a lot where, including in the USA. He got married and a donkey somewhere in South America, holding a gun shop with his wife. Well, I wrote well, there will be time, I highly recommend it. And here he with knowledge of the realities there parses why the annual statistics of such causelessly killed people are constantly growing in the USA.
      2. Vanek
        Vanek 22 November 2019 03: 08 New
        0
        Quote: Cut Samshitov
        First, they will announce the next sanctions for the development of "inhumane weapons."


        Everything in the fluff itself was snout.

        That's the whole answer.

        hi
    2. Elephant
      Elephant 21 November 2019 09: 53 New
      +4
      Quote: Teberii
      Americans really need such a machine

      I do not think that the Americans really need such a machine. They already have in the military units well proven XM25 for close combat. And for us, this machine is a good option!
      1. Dmitry Donskoy
        Dmitry Donskoy 21 November 2019 09: 57 New
        +6
        Yes, they have a campaign like automatic dresses like a socialite lioness dresses. For all occasions yes
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 21 November 2019 10: 17 New
        +3
        Quote: Elephant
        They have in the military units

        And where does the "military units"?
        The lion's share of the American "rifleman" belongs to the private trader, and not to power structures.
      3. Genry
        Genry 21 November 2019 16: 20 New
        -1
        Quote: Elephant
        They already have in the military units well proven XM25 for close combat.

        Compare a grenade launcher with a gun?
        And where did he prove himself if he wasn’t released?
      4. Doliva63
        Doliva63 21 November 2019 17: 22 New
        0
        Quote: Elephant
        Quote: Teberii
        Americans really need such a machine

        I do not think that the Americans really need such a machine. They already have in the military units well proven XM25 for close combat. And for us, this machine is a good option!

        With your permission, I’ll tweak it a bit: in the military units, he does not need us at all.
    3. rich
      rich 21 November 2019 10: 05 New
      +16
      The correct name is not ASH12, but SHAK 12

      Technical characteristics of the large-caliber assault rifle SHAK-12
      Caliber: 12,7 × 55 mm
      Weapon length: 1020 mm
      Barrel Length: -
      Weight without cartridges: 4,5 kg
      Aim range: 200 m
      Muzzle velocity, m / s: -
      Rate of Fire: 600 fps. / Min.
      Magazine capacity: 10 or 20 rounds
      1. madrobot
        madrobot 21 November 2019 17: 18 New
        -1
        It is possible that the letters were interchanged so that there would be no associations with the line of ShVAK guns. You understand that, theoretically, ShVAK can also be read as an "automatic large-caliber assault rifle." In general, I do not know what the developers are guided by. laughing. We all know that any weapon has an index that does not allow ambiguous readings.
    4. Ironcity
      Ironcity 21 November 2019 11: 33 New
      +6
      The partners have already played enough with similar calibers, see .458SOCOM, .50 Beowulf. PMCs with security functions had some interest. When you need to quickly stop the car breaking through the gearbox, and there is no 50 cal gun at hand. CSKA were not inspired.
      1. Genry
        Genry 21 November 2019 15: 55 New
        -3
        Quote: Ironcity
        When you need to quickly stop the car breaking through the gearbox, and there is no 50 cal gun at hand. CSKA were not inspired.

        And where does the gearbox, car and machine gun 50kal ...
        This machine is a continuation of the silent shaft / screw cutter concept. Just with a more powerful cartridge.
        Ideal for indoor battles and sabotage operations.
        1. Ironcity
          Ironcity 21 November 2019 17: 53 New
          +4
          And where does the gearbox, car and machine gun 50kal ...
          This machine is a continuation of the silent shaft / screw cutter concept. Just with a more powerful cartridge.

          No. 9x39 is a successful attempt to make the subsonic cartridge as productive as possible. And in SHAK, emphasis is on stopping action. Conceptually very close to .50 Beowulf and peers. So they were praised by private traders for their high stopping effect and the ability to quickly reach the target behind an obstacle such as automobile glass or a door. A heavy bullet does not deflect upon penetration, as is sometimes the case with standard low-pulse 5,56.t
          Ideal for indoor battles and sabotage operations.

          Are you seriously? 5 kilogram poker according to the scheme one-sided bullpup for rooms? And if you need to lean out from around the corner to the left, what will we do, get out with the whole body? The layout does not allow shooting from the left shoulder. No, there are better samples.
    5. Siberia 75
      Siberia 75 21 November 2019 12: 14 New
      +1
      Americans from The National Interest praise, we must carefully look at what is wrong with the AS-12. sad
      1. Deck
        Deck 21 November 2019 18: 06 New
        +1
        The Supervisory Board of The National Interest includes Alexei Pushkov, a member of the Russian State Duma. Probably need to ask him laughing
    6. Deck
      Deck 21 November 2019 12: 52 New
      -1
      Why is the ASh-12 better than the Benelli M4 (M1014)? The range of ammunition at Benelli is wider, reliable automation, stainless materials in the design.
      1. Genry
        Genry 21 November 2019 15: 59 New
        0
        Quote: Deck
        Why is the ASh-12 better than the Benelli M4 (M1014)?

        Why did they suddenly begin to compare armor-piercing rifles with a smooth-bore shotgun?
    7. Gerneton
      Gerneton 22 November 2019 03: 16 New
      -1
      Quote: Teberii
      Americans really need such a machine, they will again copy like AK and will push to the domestic market

      there is such a choice of various weapons and body kit that the next pepelats of unknown quality except that collectors can be interested.
  2. Zeev Zeev
    Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 09: 49 New
    -16
    Any semi-automatic shotgun at close range will neutralize even an enemy protected by body armor with no less efficiency, only it costs several times less and cartridges for it can be bought at any hunting store.
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother 21 November 2019 09: 53 New
      +19
      Quote: Zeev Zeev
      neutralizes even the enemy protected by body armor

      He will not break the armor.
      cartridges for it can be bought at any hunting store.

      Armor-piercing, yeah.
      1. Fibrizio
        Fibrizio 21 November 2019 09: 57 New
        -1
        Steel completely. + no one bothers to charge the caliber. But his point is certainly not that.
        1. Gray brother
          Gray brother 21 November 2019 10: 05 New
          +3
          Quote: Fibrizio
          Steel completely. + no one bothers to charge the caliber.

          Bullshit - small speed, large cross-sectional area.
          1. Fibrizio
            Fibrizio 21 November 2019 10: 06 New
            +4
            And get the 300th with broken ribs. There is little joy.
            1. Gray brother
              Gray brother 21 November 2019 10: 09 New
              +5
              Quote: Fibrizio
              And get the 300th with broken ribs.

              This is if bronik without plates.
              1. Fibrizio
                Fibrizio 21 November 2019 10: 13 New
                -1
                Another question is that I do not see the point of 12 cal in the army. I dragged a duck and more than 200 rounds in a backpack. The pleasure is so-so. And for the fighting is simply impossible. + volume.
                1. Gray brother
                  Gray brother 21 November 2019 10: 17 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Fibrizio
                  Another question is that I do not see the point of 12 cal in the army.

                  This is for anti-terror units and all kinds of attack aircraft. They sometimes need to shoot everyone very quickly with a guarantee so that the hostages do not have time to bang or something else to get rid of.
                2. Simargl
                  Simargl 21 November 2019 11: 35 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Fibrizio
                  Another question is that I do not see the point of 12 cal in the army.
                  Well, do not carry the same TOZ-123 ...
                  For the army and the police, in any case, we need a caliber different from civilian. That civilian special ammunition is not trying to use. and then you can come up with a cumulative ....
              2. Zeev Zeev
                Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 10: 40 New
                -3
                This is if the armor of the 4th level, stopping the bullet from the AK point blank. Knocked down and knocked down.
              3. Vlad.by
                Vlad.by 21 November 2019 13: 29 New
                -3
                And if with plates - then most likely the 300th with broken insides and, possibly, broken cervical vertebrae.
                1. Gray brother
                  Gray brother 21 November 2019 13: 32 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Vlad.by
                  it’s most likely the 300th with broken insides and possibly broken cervical vertebrae.

                  Yes, there will be nothing - kinetic energy will either be spent on the destruction of the plate, or distributed over its entire area.
                  1. Vlad.by
                    Vlad.by 21 November 2019 13: 35 New
                    -5
                    and after distribution? From 200 meters! The impulse will be healthy, if it does not break, it will throw the meter 2 by 3.
                    1. Gray brother
                      Gray brother 21 November 2019 13: 39 New
                      +7
                      Quote: Vlad.by
                      From 200 meters!

                      From a gun?
                    2. Genry
                      Genry 21 November 2019 16: 02 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Vlad.by
                      From 200 meters! The impulse will be healthy, if it does not break, it will throw the meter 2 by 3.

                      The same impulse acts on the arrow. Why doesn’t it fly off by 2-3 meters?
                    3. Incvizitor
                      Incvizitor 22 November 2019 03: 40 New
                      0
                      From 200 meters!
                      for 12 cal, the maximum target range of 100 m is considered to be a bullet, a fraction of 50, this is what any hunter will say in weapons, of course I had a case when I fired at a duck and the fraction of fishermen at 400 m fell but this is complete nonsense.
              4. dokusib
                dokusib 23 November 2019 06: 06 New
                0
                In the jug, no plates will save.
      2. Zeev Zeev
        Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 10: 27 New
        -12
        A shotgun should not break through the armor. Jacques will knock out the spirit of any person and for five minutes he will be incapacitated from the word at all. And with buckshot he’ll make holes too
        1. Winnie76
          Winnie76 21 November 2019 10: 43 New
          +2
          Quote: Zeev Zeev
          A shotgun should not break through the armor. Jacques will knock out the spirit of any person and for five minutes he will be incapacitated from the word at all.

          Why knock the spirit out of a terrorist. And we do not have the death penalty. Push tight
          1. Zeev Zeev
            Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 10: 48 New
            -2
            I want to fill up tight, shoot the Bosko. At short distances, this is not a problem.
            1. Winnie76
              Winnie76 21 November 2019 10: 50 New
              +6
              It’s more difficult to get into the head, every 10 times.
              1. Zeev Zeev
                Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 10: 58 New
                -6
                At a distance of up to 50 meters for a trained fighter does not get into the head?
                1. Kochegarkin
                  Kochegarkin 21 November 2019 11: 10 New
                  +13
                  Quote: Zeev Zeev
                  At a distance of up to 50 meters for a trained fighter does not get into the head?

                  wow what a specialist in fire training in confined spaces ...
                  You, my friend, have long shot at the shooting range from something heavy?
                  how much time does it take you to aim from the PM?
                  and how much do you knock out for high-speed shooting?
                  actually shooting at a fast pace at any distance is a very poor thing
                  1. Zeev Zeev
                    Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 12: 15 New
                    -2
                    I was at the shooting range a month and a half ago, shot with a Jericho 941 pistol, shot at speed. There were no numbers on the targets, so I don’t know how many knocked out, but out of 50 rounds, about 40 fit into a piece of target the size of a plate.
                    But this is not important, since we are not talking about a pistol, but about long-barreled weapons, the accuracy of which is much higher. And users of these weapons shoot more often than once every six months (unlike me).
                2. Winnie76
                  Winnie76 21 November 2019 11: 10 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Zeev Zeev
                  At a distance of up to 50 meters for a trained fighter does not get into the head?

                  Probably for a trained fighter to get into the body is still easier than in the head. Following your logic - why wear bulletproof vests in the building at all, because the enemies will aim at the head
                  1. Zeev Zeev
                    Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 12: 19 New
                    0
                    We’re talking about special forces, they must learn to shoot in the head. Or, on suicide bombers with a martyr’s belt, will they also beat on the carcass?
                    1. mmaxx
                      mmaxx 23 November 2019 04: 03 New
                      0
                      When it comes to real shooting, the very best shooters begin to smear. Few people have enough nerves to hit the head.
                  2. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 21 November 2019 17: 43 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Winnie76
                    Quote: Zeev Zeev
                    At a distance of up to 50 meters for a trained fighter does not get into the head?

                    Probably for a trained fighter to get into the body is still easier than in the head. Following your logic - why wear bulletproof vests in the building at all, because the enemies will aim at the head

                    It’s just that the trained fighter doesn’t shoot “in the torso” - it can be penetrated all the way through, but the enemy will not lose combat effectiveness (that is, it is necessary to shoot selectively), and it may turn out to have a bronik on it. And yes, aiming offhand is easier than in the heart, for example.
                3. Simargl
                  Simargl 21 November 2019 11: 43 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Zeev Zeev
                  At a distance of up to 50 meters for a trained fighter does not get into the head?
                  Who will keep it?
                  1. Zeev Zeev
                    Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 12: 20 New
                    -2
                    And who will hold if you shoot in the body?
                    1. Simargl
                      Simargl 21 November 2019 12: 21 New
                      +2
                      So the carcass is 10 times larger in area and closer to the center of gravity - less mobile.
                      1. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 12: 25 New
                        -2
                        It is clear that it’s easier to get into the carcass. Here we are talking about the fact that a person wants to fill up immediately. Control is not for him, to take prisoner to talk too.
                      2. Simargl
                        Simargl 21 November 2019 12: 34 New
                        +2
                        TOZ-123 and grenades ...
                      3. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 21 November 2019 17: 50 New
                        0
                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        It is clear that it’s easier to get into the carcass. Here we are talking about the fact that a person wants to fill up immediately. Control is not for him, to take prisoner to talk too.

                        About the head, I agree in terms of the fact that this is correct, but with 50m. you get excited when it comes to the gun. With an assault rifle, yes, almost any 50m rookie got into a cabbage swing laughing
                      4. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 17: 56 New
                        0
                        And I did not talk about the gun. At 50 meters, you need to heal the heads for a long and tedious time, 10-15 seconds minimum. And this is for a very good shooter.
                      5. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 21 November 2019 18: 33 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        And I did not talk about the gun. At 50 meters, you need to heal the heads for a long and tedious time, 10-15 seconds minimum. And this is for a very good shooter.

                        The machine gun has a thin front sight, a head of cabbage is clearly visible, what is there to target? A 150-meter chest target had a black circle, like, 20 cm, what's the difference?
                      6. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 18: 45 New
                        0
                        And you have only one retention point in the gun. In contrast to the machine, where there are five
                      7. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 21 November 2019 19: 21 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        And you have only one retention point in the gun. In contrast to the machine, where there are five

                        Engaged in pistol shooting, both in the standard version and in the sport, I did not bother with this. laughing Looks like the techniques are different.
                      8. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 19: 22 New
                        +1
                        Maybe. We are taught to shoot differently.
                      9. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 21 November 2019 19: 54 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        Maybe. We are taught to shoot differently.

                        But do you learn from the right hand to the left? Well, as we were taught laughing I think that the Soviet school, that is sports, that military, was excellent. drinks Right now, I don’t know and don’t want to. I'm not going to fight for the pipe.
                      10. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 20: 49 New
                        0
                        Change hands? I have not met, maybe where they teach.
                      11. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 22 November 2019 19: 27 New
                        0
                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        Change hands? I have not met, maybe where they teach.

                        Think no good? After all, a gun is an extreme option when the cartridges are out or wounded in the arm. The ability to shoot from the left in this case does not hurt. But we fired from the left and with other weapons. It stinks, however, right in the nose and the sleeves in front of my eyes fly out. But, again, it is useful if you look at it. And watch when shooting with both eyes. In general, the military is a difficult profession laughing
                      12. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 22 November 2019 20: 41 New
                        0
                        I didn’t have a gun in the army. I worked for a long time in the security. We only had a short barrel. Although I’m lying, I’ve also been given “ultrasound”.
                      13. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 23 November 2019 18: 21 New
                        0
                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        I didn’t have a gun in the army. I worked for a long time in the security. We only had a short barrel. Although I’m lying, I’ve also been given “ultrasound”.

                        And we had a gun for every sergeant (from the youngest to the oldest) and every "senior soldier", so to speak. And for warrant officers and officers - as many as 2 at once laughing And then he worked as a guard - after the army, this is the simplest solution. The main weapon - these were pistols. Well, the "long barrel" in the face of "Jaguar" laughing
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 22 November 2019 03: 42 New
    0
    A terrorist at a distance of up to 50 meters, who will not be able to heal a fighter’s head, will shoot much faster offhand and while you are aiming his head, you will grab a bullet.
  • Simargl
    Simargl 21 November 2019 11: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: Winnie76
    It’s more difficult to get into the head, every 10 times.
    Shot with buckshot ... 6-9 pieces per charge ...
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother 21 November 2019 12: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: Simargl
      Shot with buckshot ... 6-9 pieces per charge ...

      It’s easier to immediately throw a grenade into the room. laughing Fuck, with them, with the hostages.
    2. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 22 November 2019 03: 45 New
      +2
      Yes, such people fly in five special forces and begin to peel with buckshot in a closed room with hostages ...
  • Xnumx vis
    Xnumx vis 21 November 2019 13: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: Zeev Zeev
    A shotgun should not break through the armor. Jacques will knock out the spirit of any person and for five minutes he will be incapacitated from the word at all. And with buckshot he’ll make holes too

    And if with a club on the head, then generally prepare a coffin and a wake!
  • Deck
    Deck 21 November 2019 18: 16 New
    -1
    Armor-piercing, yeah.


    Yeah. Do you like English? https://www.firequest.com/G12-001.html - $ 125 and enjoy
    There is also armor-piercing incendiary.
  • Dym71
    Dym71 21 November 2019 09: 53 New
    +5
    Quote: Zeev Zeev
    Any semi-automatic shotgun at close range neutralizes even an enemy protected by body armor with no less efficiency

    Well, how is it, because you probably came across these lines:
    M 16 - The grenade launcher is heavy, but can “put” a grenade in the window at a distance of 200 meters.
    AK 47 - If anything, the grenade from the grenade launcher can be thrown out of the window with your hand.
    Mosin Rifle - Window Grenade? Hit through the wall, a bullet pierces the brickwork of a meter thick!

    wink
    1. Zeev Zeev
      Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 10: 37 New
      -3
      These lines met. The grenade launcher M-203 weighs as much as the GP-30, but more precisely, it is more convenient and it can be easily not only charged, but also discharged. And you can get into the window from it from 300 meters.
      AK-47? I did not see him with a grenade launcher.
      Mosin rifle? No, a meter wall will not break. Even two bricks will not break.
      1. Dym71
        Dym71 21 November 2019 16: 26 New
        +1
        Quote: Zeev Zeev
        Even two bricks will not break.

        Wolf (teeth clicked bully ), do not carp, this is a hyperbole - a means of artistic depiction, based on deliberate exaggeration in order to enhance expressiveness and emphasize the said thoughts. wink
        1. Zeev Zeev
          Zeev Zeev 21 November 2019 16: 37 New
          0
          I know what a "hyperbole" is.
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 21 November 2019 11: 21 New
    +1
    And how successfully does a shotgun pierce bulletproof vests? And can he hit a target at 200 meters? And what is the difference between the price and the shotgun?
  • Tank hard
    Tank hard 21 November 2019 11: 33 New
    -2
    Quote: Zeev Zeev
    Any semi-automatic shotgun at close range will neutralize even an enemy protected by body armor with no less efficiency, only it costs several times less and cartridges for it can be bought at any hunting store.

    You can’t prove anything to “experts” like the “gray brothers”, but here’s a short video in some support of your opinion, at the same time someone will be able to see how the shotgun is underestimated, and yes, it’s not necessarily a semiautomatic device, there is an opinion that the pump will be enough. However, each weapon has its own niche, the main thing is to be able to correctly use it. hi
  • Dikson
    Dikson 21 November 2019 09: 51 New
    +3
    Such a rhinoceros and a sight is not needed .. And if you attach a grenade launcher .. then generally put out the light ...
    1. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 21 November 2019 10: 10 New
      +10
      Quote: Dikson
      And if you attach a gimbal .. then generally put out the light ...

      By order:


      Option ASh-12 with an under-barrel grenade launcher and PBS.
  • g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 21 November 2019 09: 51 New
    +5
    So much for the answer: 5,56 or 7,62 ... smile
  • iConst
    iConst 21 November 2019 09: 53 New
    +4
    Horror flying on the wings of the night. Oh, this NI. smile
  • Fibrizio
    Fibrizio 21 November 2019 09: 55 New
    0
    The return is monstrous, only single sighting. The flame arrestor there is not just like that, with such a barrel length - there is a flamethrower, about 5 meters sheaf will be peeling. Who shot from short versions of AK, especially rifle cartridges, is in the know.
    Yes, and about the shotguns it’s rightly noted that buckshot or 40g bullet may not penetrate the bulletproof vest, but it will definitely cost you to fight.
    Yes, and in close combat there is a tendency to rate of fire, no? Even in the Second World War, our PPSh was extremely successful. He jumped into the room / trench, clamped the descent and walked from wall to wall. All get their own.
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother 21 November 2019 09: 59 New
      +4
      Quote: Fibrizio
      only solitary aiming.

      1. Fibrizio
        Fibrizio 21 November 2019 10: 04 New
        -1
        As an advantage, I see that a bullet will overcome some obstacles. It is clear that this is not DShK / KORD and its analogues, there are almost no walls for them, maybe this one will also be sewn. But a limited store. I don’t know, it’s very special.
        Like an army pistol, cool, but there are no tasks for him.
        1. Gray brother
          Gray brother 21 November 2019 10: 06 New
          +6
          Quote: Fibrizio
          Like an army

          This is not for the army, but for those who have tasks.
          1. Fibrizio
            Fibrizio 21 November 2019 10: 09 New
            -3
            Let's speculate. Where can he be better than a standard assault rifle at short range (as stated)?
            I just can't think of it. If you blow a dozen bursts of 223 or ours along the body, the effect will be no worse.
            1. Gray brother
              Gray brother 21 November 2019 10: 12 New
              +8
              Quote: Fibrizio
              Where can he be better than a standard assault rifle at short range (as stated)?

              Everywhere. Due to stopping action and fatal injuries. Short fire contact with a clear outcome.
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 21 November 2019 17: 55 New
                0
                Quote: Gray Brother
                Quote: Fibrizio
                Where can he be better than a standard assault rifle at short range (as stated)?

                Everywhere. Due to stopping action and fatal injuries. Short fire contact with a clear outcome.

                Spherical Horse Vacuum Response good
            2. lucul
              lucul 21 November 2019 11: 20 New
              +9
              Let's speculate. Where can he be better than a standard assault rifle at short range (as stated)?
              I just can't think of it. If you blow a dozen bursts of 223 or ours along the body, the effect will be no worse.

              You just don’t understand what you are talking about.
              Why did this ASh-12 assault rifle appear?
              Special order of the FSB.
              Why special order? Yes, because the fighting showed that the barmaley, under a horse dose of morphine, remained capable even if it was point blank, they landed a full horn from AK.
              ASH-12 is guaranteed to instantly turn off the enemy, even under drugs drenched to the ears.
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 21 November 2019 17: 56 New
                0
                Quote: lucul
                Let's speculate. Where can he be better than a standard assault rifle at short range (as stated)?
                I just can't think of it. If you blow a dozen bursts of 223 or ours along the body, the effect will be no worse.

                You just don’t understand what you are talking about.
                Why did this ASh-12 assault rifle appear?
                Special order of the FSB.
                Why special order? Yes, because the fighting showed that the barmaley, under a horse dose of morphine, remained capable even if it was point blank, they landed a full horn from AK.
                ASH-12 is guaranteed to instantly turn off the enemy, even under drugs drenched to the ears.

                If it tears to shreds, then yes.
      2. Dym71
        Dym71 21 November 2019 10: 06 New
        -4
        At 2:50, you can see how the Fingal leading under his eye shot laughing
    2. Romka47
      Romka47 21 November 2019 10: 50 New
      +12
      He jumped into the room / trench, clamped the descent and walked from wall to wall. All get their own.
      Together with the hostages
      Yes, and about shotguns it’s rightly noted that a buckshot or a 40g bullet may not penetrate a bulletproof vest, but it’s just a little fun to fight
      if the person is "fresh", and if he is gluttonous or chipped what? there were cases without arms and without jaw continued to fight for a short time, but here the point is that after the hit it unwinds so that even if it survives it will not be able to move, because the muscles flew away from the bones and tendons
    3. iConst
      iConst 21 November 2019 12: 27 New
      +10
      Quote: Fibrizio
      Who shot short AK versions, especially rifle cartridges

      Am I missing something? belay
    4. hohkn
      hohkn 21 November 2019 13: 13 New
      0
      Quote: Fibrizio
      Who shot from short versions of AK, especially rifle cartridges, is in the know.

      What?
      How to put 7,62x54 into the store for 7,62x39. And will it enter the chamber?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 21 November 2019 09: 56 New
    0
    Previously, this source of American origin was increasingly criticized for the fact that it incorrectly provides information about Russian weapons. And as the praise sounded, so the commentators somehow keep quiet about the incompetence of the pit experts!))) laughing
  • Berkut24
    Berkut24 21 November 2019 09: 57 New
    +1
    Everything written with the words "instantly", "horror", etc. - just fiction. Figures, tests, videos for clarity - that's what you need. The author did not hold the product in his hands, did not compare it with something else, has no personal impressions.
    Although, probably, he has some kind of writing income from this attempt to scare someone.
  • Romka47
    Romka47 21 November 2019 10: 26 New
    +1
    Even the bullets do not ricochet and hammer through the walls, sort of.
  • Professor
    Professor 21 November 2019 10: 28 New
    -2
    American edition of The National Interest ...

    I didn’t read further. This edition is as "American" as Russia Today is about Russia Today.
  • Sarduor
    Sarduor 21 November 2019 10: 54 New
    +1
    What is a two-bullet tandem bullet? Why is it needed?
    1. iConst
      iConst 21 November 2019 12: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: Sarduor
      What is a two-bullet tandem bullet? Why is it needed?

      This is when one bullet is partially in the pope of another. lol When departing, they are separated ... laughing
      It is believed that the stopping effect of a double bullet is higher with comparable total masses.

      In the 70s, they dabbled in NATO with tandem bullets, while the latter had a beveled end, which removed the bullet from the aiming point, and the first went exactly. Thus, it was supposed to increase the probability of hitting a moving target or inaccurate aiming. Those. the second - at random.
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 21 November 2019 12: 38 New
      0
      What is a two-bullet tandem bullet? Why is it needed?
      Perhaps this is a type of booklet.
  • Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 21 November 2019 11: 33 New
    0
    After the shoot-out, coi-kago can only be identified by DNA.
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 21 November 2019 11: 43 New
    0
    "Bumblebee" will be more interesting for close combat than a machine gun.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 21 November 2019 12: 39 New
      +3
      "Bumblebee" will be more interesting for close combat than a machine gun.
      Then TOS-1 Pinocchio or "Serpent Gorynych". Why trifle. Tamerlan approves.

      As one fairly well-known inquisitor used to say in the Albiguian campaign: "Wet everyone. The Almighty will separate his people from strangers."
      1. Konstantin Shevchenko
        Konstantin Shevchenko 21 November 2019 21: 08 New
        0
        Then TOS-1 Pinocchio or "Serpent Gorynych"
        no, this is no longer a close assault battle. If there are no hostages, the "bumblebee" is a fairly universal tool with minimal risk and the "bumblebee" body armor is not an obstacle. About the Albigon campaign is informative.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 21 November 2019 12: 32 New
    -2
    ... shell
    It will be right - "shell". There are also semi-shell (bullets). lol
    1. Romka47
      Romka47 21 November 2019 14: 48 New
      +1
      semi-shell laughing
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 21 November 2019 17: 23 New
    0
    Such a caliber will even knock down single.
  • Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 22 November 2019 02: 04 New
    0
    Serious machine! Any hit is lethal.
  • Evil 55
    Evil 55 22 November 2019 07: 36 New
    0
    Everything is good, and the recoil is relatively compensated, and the PBS is built in .. only the eyes are very watery from the gunpowder and the store is small ..
  • Dmitriy Zadorozhniy
    Dmitriy Zadorozhniy 22 November 2019 08: 57 New
    0
    To the head, to the extremities ... They always shoot at the "center of mass", that is, along the body. So that the body under coke, or something else like this, doesn’t stir, for the anti-terror groups they made a clapper. Americans of their 45 are not always stopping their own drug addict from the first shot.
  • serge siberian
    serge siberian 22 November 2019 20: 09 New
    0
    In 1985, late autumn, special. from Art.tech of the armament of the part where I had to serve, I said: they say there were cases, a bullet with AK-74, passing near the liver, made jelly from the liver in a sachet. I imagine that a bullet of this caliber, passing near the heart, will simply crush the last .
    They ordered the FSB for special units, well, a very sensible thing. soldier
  • Basarev
    Basarev 22 November 2019 20: 22 New
    0
    Is it possible to make a small analogue for the standard five forty-fifth cartridge?