China creates anti-laser scattering coating

The Pentagon intends to conduct the first tests of ship's laser systems by the end of the 2019 year after a successful onshore testing. They are expected to help the U.S. Navy fight enemy drones and even thermal-guided missiles.

As the Rear Admiral of the Chinese Navy Zhang Zhaojun jokingly noted about this, the thick smog hanging over Chinese cities is the best protection against the action of lasers. However, Beijing is carrying out real work in this direction, trying to create a countermeasure.

According to the Hong Kong edition of the South China Morning Post, the PRC is going to use advanced technologies for this. China is carrying out several research projects that develop a special coating for armory systems (in particular for UAVs and missiles), which will make lasers vulnerable. It is noted that it will lead to redirection or dispersion of the beam, thereby reducing its power and making it harmless.

However, this technology is not perfect, because it is necessary to know what type of laser the enemy will use, explained Professor Huang Chenguang of the Chinese Academy of Sciences. However, according to him, indirect data such as the size of the installation, power consumption, and beam generation methods will help to reveal the characteristics of the laser.

Comments

[Thrifty]

There is enough knowledge and technology to defend against those lasers that the same us can create and put into service. But, everything will change dramatically as soon as a laser complex with an output pulse of at least 190 kW is created. Then it will be very problematic to protect against this, modern methods will be ineffective, or even useless.

[Shkworen]

that's interesting, but how effective will it be against a hypersonic target, which still creates a plasma cloud in front of itself during the flight?

[cost]

It seems that in VO they already wrote about the prospective protection of self-firing squibs with pieces of foil creating a veil from the laser

[Chaldon48]

It’s not possible to shoot so long

[Shkworen]

it's a little different, I'm talking about the fact that when a hypersonic rocket flies, it creates a cloud of hot plasma around it, which causes problems with handling :)
and I’m wondering, can a laser break through this cloud and hit a target? :)

[Tommy]

Quote: Thrifty

But, everything will change dramatically as soon as a laser complex with an output pulse is created not less than 190 kW .Then protecting yourself against this will be very problematic,

Thrifty! U "Overexposure"the power output is well over 190 kW (according to former Israeli intelligence chief Nattiv
Rvykh = 1 MW).

[Thrifty]

Did Tommy give you documents for review? This is just a beautiful, but unfounded statement on the part of your specified character, in Russian, a self-PR.

[Tommy]

Quote: Thrifty

Did Tommy give you documents for review? This is just a beautiful, but unfounded statement by your specified character ...

Thrifty, you, like most VOs, have unfounded
approval. The regime of secrecy in the world has not been canceled! Unlike some Jews, Jacob Kedmi was not seen in a lie.

[Thrifty]

Tommy, I agree with you that the regime of secrecy was not canceled, if Kedmi had accurate data, then with such characteristics the laser would not have been adopted. I watched Kedmi at one time, but too much was far-fetched. ... he is a self-propeller. ...

[Amateur]

My light, mirror, say
tell the whole truth

A.S. Pushkin. "Patent for protection against laser radiation"

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Amateur

My light, mirror, say
tell the whole truth

A.S. Pushkin. "Patent for protection against laser radiation"

As practice has shown, a mirror-polished aluminum surface melts

[Gray brother]

Quote: Vol4ara

As practice has shown, a mirror-polished aluminum surface melts

There is another way.
"Ablative protection (from Latin ablatio - taking away; mass carryover) is a technology for protecting spaceships, heat protection based on ablative materials, structurally consists of a power set of elements (asbestos-textolite rings) and a" coating "consisting of phenol-formaldehyde resins or materials similar in properties ...

The heat-shielding effect of ablation materials is based not so much on the removal of a substance from the surface of a solid by a stream of hot gas, but on the restructuring of the boundary layer, which significantly reduces heat transfer to the protected surface. "
(c) Wikipedia.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: Vol4ara

As practice has shown, a mirror-polished aluminum surface melts

There is another way.
"Ablative protection (from Latin ablatio - taking away; mass carryover) is a technology for protecting spaceships, heat protection based on ablative materials, structurally consists of a power set of elements (asbestos-textolite rings) and a" coating "consisting of phenol-formaldehyde resins or materials similar in properties ...

The heat-shielding effect of ablation materials is based not so much on the removal of a substance from the surface of a solid by a stream of hot gas, but on the restructuring of the boundary layer, which significantly reduces heat transfer to the protected surface. "
(c) Wikipedia.

An interesting idea, mb which materials based on airgel will stick

[Gray brother]

Quote: Vol4ara

mb what materials based on airgel will

Airgel works on a different principle - it just has a large heat capacity.

[voyaka uh]

"a laser complex with an output pulse of at least 190 kW will be created" ///
----
The first laser that has been working for 3 years at the UDC Ponce - 30 kW
Now they began mounting the second laser on another ship.
Jump: power 100 kW.

[Kelwin]

Probably not to sit still is right. Another aspect is interesting, but how long this tender technique, optics, electronics and other technological guts will live in marine conditions, the environment is never friendly. Well, we tested it on land, let's say that the result worked out for them, although it’s still not clear what they really achieved there, but in the open sea the conditions are completely different ...

[Thrifty]

As in space, the conditions are extreme, and we need a fundamentally new system of protection for all optics, microelectronics, and other high-precision, but sensitive elements.

[knn54]

The last smog hanging over Chinese cities is the best protection against the action of lasers.
Convert ships to coal-fired boilers, smoke will ...

[Thrifty]

Kpp54 - launch a rocket that will set the smoke screen during its flight from the front of the located smoke nozzles. ..

[A good one]

Quote: Thrifty

Kpp54 - launch a rocket that will set the smoke screen during its flight from the front of the located smoke nozzles. ..

Yeah, we’ll expand the regiments and brigades additionally for your smoke, I’ll ask you not to attract parts in the BG.

[Lexus]

The last smog hanging over Chinese cities is the best protection against the action of lasers.
Convert ships to coal-fired boilers, smoke will ...

Nicholas
Yes, the most serious obstacle to lasers is the low permeability of the atmosphere, caused by both natural and artificial factors. It's time for us to update "Sura" too. May it always rain over American lasers. Because, as the Chinese, we "won't accumulate" so much

[A good one]

Kindergarten and only, the next "uryakat"

[Vol4ara]

Quote: lexus

The last smog hanging over Chinese cities is the best protection against the action of lasers.
Convert ships to coal-fired boilers, smoke will ...

Nicholas
Yes, a serious obstacle for lasers is the low permeability of the atmosphere, caused by both natural and artificial factors.

At the distances at which they plan to shoot, no

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Thrifty

There is enough knowledge and technology to defend against those lasers that the same us can create and put into service. But, everything will change dramatically as soon as a laser complex with an output pulse of at least 190 kW is created. Then it will be very problematic to protect against this, modern methods will be ineffective, or even useless.

You need to go to school. In the fifth grade. And after a year of training, to force to pass the exam, and based on the results to decide whether to allow such topics to be discussed.

https://studbooks.net/1352721/matematika_himiya_fizika/lazernoe_izluchenie_atmosfere
To interest the lazy, a small quote from there:

"... At LR intensities exceeding 106 W / cm2, a quasi-stationary evaporation regime occurs. Exceeding this value leads to a change in the stationary regime to an explosive one. When large water droplets (up to 400 μm) are heated, due to the asymmetry of the optical field distribution in the droplet, the evaporation process becomes anisotropic, with the resultant recoil force of the vaporized substance flow and light-reactive motion of the drop in the optical field.

Since the distribution of the optical field inside the droplet is anisotropic, the point of maximum temperature does not coincide with the center of the droplet and the explosive mode of evaporation leads to the ejection of part of the droplet mass. In this case, the radius of the drop decreases significantly. The considered processes lead to significant mixing of the fog and additional expansion of the laser beam. It should be noted that although the attenuation of radiation due to scattering by droplets with a radius of less than 5 μm exceeds the absorption in them, ultimately the scattering makes a smaller contribution (the concentration of such droplets is low). In addition, the rate of droplet reduction is directly proportional to the radius, i.e. large droplets evaporate faster than small ones. Therefore, the scattering of radiation by fog droplets can be neglected (while considering absorption). Upon completion of the evaporation of the droplet, until the moment when the vapor diffuses into the surrounding space, it occupies the volume of a sphere with a radius of 50 μm. The time for the formation of a steam clot is 10-6 s. The vapor clot scatters the LI. "....

[G. Georgiev]

And so the power of the advertised Russian laser "Peresvet" was not found out! To what extent, they are Russian, have reached, as a kilowatt? As part of the RTR program, I heard about a Russian icebreaker with a 200 kW laser, about the ice melting in front of the ship.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: G. Georgiev

And so the power of the advertised Russian laser "Peresvet" was not found out! To what extent, they are Russian, have reached, as a kilowatt? As part of the RTR program, I heard about a Russian icebreaker with a 200 kW laser, about the ice melting in front of the ship.

In Adamov's novel, the Pioneer submarine melted its way through the iceberg by heating the hull. Don't read nonsense. No one will break ice or melt it with a laser beam. The icebreaker breaks the ice, crawling on it with its nose. To do this, he is shaped, with a flat bottom at the bottom, and with cisterns in the nose, which he either frees by lifting it or pumping water into it, making it heavy.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Shkworen

that's interesting, but how effective will it be against a hypersonic target, which still creates a plasma cloud in front of itself during the flight?

It is completely useless.

"The technical reasons (according to the source - PV Zarubin" Akademik Basov ... ") consisted in the fact that at a micron wavelength of laser radiation it was practically impossible to focus the beam onto a relatively small area. distance of more than 100 km, the natural angular divergence of optical laser radiation in the atmosphere as a result of scattering is 0,0001 degrees.This was established in the Institute of Atmospheric Optics at the Siberian Branch of the USSR Academy of Sciences in Tomsk, specially created to support the implementation of the laser weapons program. It followed that the laser spot at a distance of 100 km would have a diameter of at least 20 meters, and the energy density over an area of ​​1 cm2 with a total laser source energy of 1 MJ would be less than 0,1 J / cm2. This is too little - in order to hit the rocket (create a hole in it in 1 cm2, depressurizing it), more than 1 kJ / cm2 is required

At a small distance, where, in principle, it is possible to accurately focus on a small surface, the angular movement of the target relative to the weapon does not allow heating to a sufficient temperature due to the short time the laser spot is kept at one point. (Posted by me).
If the target is in the plasma cocoon, then it will be impossible to aim precisely at the body. A ray of light is not an artillery shell that hits a target, exploding nearby. A slip by a centimeter and the target is not hit. Try to find it in a cloud into which neither a radio beam nor an optical device penetrates.

[Shkworen]

Thanks, exactly what I expected :)

[Thrifty]

To hit a target at a distance of 100 kilometers, to what height do you need to raise the laser? Or, you do not take into account the curvature of the earth?

[Vita vko]

Quote: Vkd dvk

Technical reasons

Which you have listed with reference to a certain source are known since the time of writing the science fiction novel "The Hyperboloid of Engineer Garin", i.e. almost 100 years.
In reality, the defeat of targets by laser systems at the Sary-Shagan training ground in the 80s proved their sufficient effectiveness at ranges up to 5 km. For long ranges, up to 100 km, it is necessary to take measures to reduce the effect of beam scattering in the atmosphere. There are two options here: installing an adaptive mirror (aviation laser laboratories) or an adaptive phased array from a set of quantum generators (ground-based laser complexes of the Peresvet type). In this case, from a satellite, the defeat of aeroballistic targets in the stratosphere or upper atmosphere where the main path of passage of hypersonic rockets passes can well be realized.

[BAI]

Protection against any laser is known and simple as an orange - a reflective coating with a phase shift of half the wavelength of the laser. There is only one minus - coverage for a strictly defined wavelength, i.e. under a specific laser. The wavelength is changing - it is necessary to repaint. But another wavelength is the development of a completely new laser.

[voyaka uh]

"But the different wavelength is the development of a completely new laser." ////
----
Frequencies can generate dynamically. There may be several frequencies
at the same time. Moreover, consciously selected, adapting to
the medium that the beam must pass.
Ship laser works at UDC Ponce in the Persian Gulf.
There he was tested both in fog and when salt dust from sea waves in the air.

[abc_alex]

Quote: voyaka uh

Frequencies can generate dynamically. There may be several frequencies
at the same time. Moreover, consciously selected, adapting to
the medium that the beam must pass.

????? How? As far as I know, the laser wavelength is strictly determined by the material of the working fluid. You can choose it consciously, but you can’t change it.

Quote: voyaka uh

There he was tested both in fog and when salt dust from sea waves in the air.

AND??? In warm waters, lasers were tested back in the USSR. The result was disappointing. The overall efficiency of the system was not more than 5%. You are replacing concepts.

[voyaka uh]

The tests were successful. The laser is already on the second warship.

[abc_alex]

Quote: voyaka uh

The tests were successful. The laser is already on the second warship.

Warrior, I repeat to you again. Lasers on ships were successfully tested back in the USSR. Everything is working. But the efficiency of the system is very low. For 100 watts of energy put into the gun, about 5 reach the target.
The statesmen can bet anything, anywhere. Without telling anyone the overall efficiency of the system. Poiom will announce that they have created another "technology demonstrator".

[voyaka uh]

A successful test is destroyed (scorched) for
seconds target. The goals were speed boats
and drones. The goals were not just damaged, but derived from
system. The boats stopped, catching fire, and the drones fell into the sea.
A weak 35 kW laser worked (18 electric kettles).

[abc_alex]

Quote: voyaka uh

A successful test is destroyed (scorched) for
seconds target.

Or a specially prepared squib on it. Listen, only the lazy hasn’t written about how the US “test” their new products. They are famous for this all over the world. Either the tank is stuffed with explosives to heighten the effect of the ATGM, or the target body is made of foil. And most importantly, they never say what the purpose of the tests was. They could test the aiming system, for example.

Quote: voyaka uh

The boats stopped, catching fire, and the drones fell into the sea.

Yes Yes Yes. But how these targets were prepared for testing, they will never tell you.
And by the way, do you really think that even a medium-sized boat can be disabled by breaking a hole in it with a millimeter diameter in its hull?

[voyaka uh]

How the tests were conducted at the training grounds of the USSR (in Soviet times), the participants told me ... I do not want to upset you. Hopefully there’s less fraud now.
I understood your point of view - laser tests are faked. Thanks for the dialogue.

[abc_alex]

Quote: voyaka uh

How the tests were conducted at the training grounds of the USSR (in Soviet times), the participants told me ... I do not want to upset you. Hopefully there’s less fraud now.

I also know about this from the participants ... So do not trump.

Quote: voyaka uh

I understood your point of view - laser tests are faked.

Directed. To get a "picture".

Quote: voyaka uh

Thank you for the dialogue.

Good luck, please.

[Kerensky]

And if the protected surface is frozen, until a "frost coat" appears on it?

[nikon7717]

Quote: Kerensky

And if the protected surface is frozen, until a "frost coat" appears on it?

L / a are engaged in the fight against anti-icing, and you're talking about artificial ice. No one needs to increase the mass at the target. Range reduction.

[Kerensky]

L / a are engaged in the fight against anti-icing, and you're talking about artificial ice.

Well, I was thinking about ships. It will not work with GON and cryogen?

[nikon7717]

If on a ship, explain how the ice will stay on the outside of the ship and not be washed off by the waves.
It seems that the ships sail in the seas in winter and the hull is not very frozen.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Thrifty

To hit a target at a distance of 100 kilometers, to what height do you need to raise the laser? Or, you do not take into account the curvature of the earth?

I believe that the authors of this idea are going to hit an approaching intercontinental missile, which is still in near space. At least, the atmosphere will interfere much less, after all, this is not 100 km in dense layers, but only 10-50 in less dense. It is not possible to aim at an object on the surface of the Earth, in a 10-km heat haze, what can we say about 100?
And finally, and who obliges them to use a laser at a maximum distance?

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Vita VKO

Quote: Vkd dvk

Technical reasons

Which you have listed with reference to a certain source are known since the time of writing the science fiction novel "The Hyperboloid of Engineer Garin", i.e. almost 100 years.
In reality, the defeat of targets by laser systems at the Sary-Shagan training ground in the 80s proved their sufficient effectiveness at ranges up to 5 km. For long ranges, up to 100 km, it is necessary to take measures to reduce the effect of beam scattering in the atmosphere. There are two options here: installing an adaptive mirror (aviation laser laboratories) or an adaptive phased array from a set of quantum generators (ground-based laser complexes of the Peresvet type). In this case, from a satellite, the defeat of aeroballistic targets in the stratosphere or upper atmosphere where the main path of passage of hypersonic rockets passes can well be realized.

You hit (didn’t hurt yourself?) In such technically undeveloped wilds that .....
Talk about phased arrays for wavelengths in angstroms. Well, if it's achievable at all. "Suha, theory, my friend, and the tree of life is forever green ...." (c).

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: BAI

Protection against any laser is known and simple as an orange - a reflective coating with a phase shift of half the wavelength of the laser. There is only one minus - coverage for a strictly defined wavelength, i.e. under a specific laser. The wavelength is changing - it is necessary to repaint. But another wavelength is the development of a completely new laser.

Do you understand what you wrote? The simplest method that is not possible to implement. Do you know the laser wavelength? At least the size order? How to shift the phase of angstrom radiation HALF? For low-power light fluxes, there are polarizing films. But any attempt to TRANSFORM energy is accompanied by the release of energy of a different nature. And in this case, heat generation. Stop. From what they left, besides they came.
Only an attempt to create a full reflector, a mirror of full reflection, with an efficiency of more than 99,9 in the percent period, will save the shell for some time. Five-six nines after the decimal point, not less .....
The laser beam is not absolutely coherent. There are many, a whole range of different-frequency light rays.

[abc_alex]

Quote: G. Georgiev

I heard about a Russian icebreaker with a 200 kW laser, about melting ice in front of a ship.

It was not about melting. There they would have suggested blowing up ice. I don’t remember exactly, but it was a question of remotely creating tanks with steam in the ice mass that would explode the ice when heated. If I'm not mistaken...