Military Review

Robotization of industry: the threat of unemployment or the foundation of the economy of the future?

275
Most recently, an article was published on the pages of VO “Do not be afraid of robots bringing gifts”, in which the problem of job loss in the case of the widespread use of robots in various fields of human activity is mixed up, several industries are mentioned that are promising from the point of view of the authors of the field of robotics, robot vacuum cleaners, unmanned taxis and robots for cleaning radioactive waste are mixed in one pile. At the end, the conclusion is made that the absence of robots in Skolkovo or Rusnano is a logical consequence of their inefficiency:
Strange, but somehow not too much while spoiling us the news from the field of robotics from such "advanced points" as Skolkovo or Rusnano. But this only convinces us that many times voiced by many authors of the Military Review, doubts about their effectiveness are still valid.



Robotization of industry: the threat of unemployment or the foundation of the economy of the future?

The volume of annual global supplies of industrial robots, thousand units


Since the topic of industrial robotics is close to me, we’ll try to figure out what the situation in the industry really is and what its prospects are in Russia and in the world. This article does not plan to consider robotics in the service sector, unmanned vehicles or the robotics of specific industries such as programming. Only industry.

Some statistics


According to the International Federation of Robotics (IFR), the annual increase in the global market for industrial robots is about 15-20%. At the same time, the volume of introduced robotic systems varies greatly between different countries of the world. The Russian Federation (RF) is currently one of the countries with the least number of industrial robots deployed, approximately 3 robots for 10 000 people


Robot density. The number of industrial robots on 10 thousand workers employed in industry


At the moment, the sales level, respectively, and the market capacity of industrial robots in Russia is approximately 500-700 units per year. For comparison: the market of industrial robots in China is about 50 000 units per year. Is the difference tangible? And this despite the huge number of able-bodied people in China, which is almost an order of magnitude higher than that in the Russian Federation.

The most popular areas on the world market are the areas of robotics is the microelectronic and automotive industries.


Segmentation of the global market for industrial robots


The structure of the Russian market is different from the world. First of all, robotic systems for welding and cutting metals are in demand, they account for about 80% of implementations. In second place is the developing segment - the movement and stacking of goods, which is in demand in the food and pharmaceutical industries. To a lesser extent, milling, painting, measuring and other types of robotic systems are in demand.

The largest global manufacturers of industrial robots are companies:
- KUKA (Germany);
- FANUC (Japan);
- ABB (Sweden);
- Kawasaki (Japan);
- Motoman / Yaskawa (Japan, USA);
- OTC Daihen (Japan);
- Panasonic (Japan).

The leaders of the Russian market of industrial robotics are the German company KUKA and the Japanese company FANUC, which together occupy about 90% of the market. Companies actively working to expand market share in Russia are ABB, Kawasaki, Motoman / Yaskawa.


KUKA range of robots


The PRC is making significant efforts to create its own industrial robots, but at the moment, Chinese industrial robots are only beginning to appear on the international, including the Russian, market. This emphasizes that the creation of industrial robots is an extremely difficult task. Here, precision mechanics capable of operating in harsh operating conditions 24 hours a day 365 days a year, and a powerful industrial computer as a "brain", and sophisticated control algorithms.

Despite the fact that the share of Chinese robots on the market is still small, it is likely to increase as Chinese manufacturers have an aggressive pricing policy, the cost of their products is often 2-3 times lower than the cost of competitors. Currently, consumers are confused by potential quality problems, the limited range of products offered and the lack of integrator companies for Chinese industrial robots.

There are currently no domestic manufacturers of six-axis industrial robots in Russia. Several enterprises produce the so-called Cartesian robots and delta robots. Both of them can perform some tasks in certain areas of industry, but they will not become a full-fledged replacement for six or more axial robots.


Descartes robot ARKODIM of ARKODIM-Pro company and Delta robot Hexapod of Eidos-Robotekhnika company



Stand with industrial robot ARKODIM


The work of the Hexapod delta robot

How do industrial robots get to the consumer?


Most manufacturers of industrial robots do not independently install them to the end customer. Why is this happening? An industrial robot is essentially a “hand”. It is necessary to put a tool in this hand, to train it to perform this or that work. This is done by specialized integrator companies. The tasks of integrators in some cases are not much easier than the production of robots themselves. In fact, the integrator must link the industrial robot itself or several robots into a single production complex, the necessary auxiliary equipment - a welding machine, grippers and gripper change systems, milling equipment, painting, measuring or other, which will be required to solve customer problems. The cost of robots themselves can be about 30-50% of the cost of the final solution - a robotic technological complex (RTK), which includes additional equipment, specialized equipment, writing a program code for the complex and much more.

In Russia, there are about 50 integrator companies. Some integrators choose a narrow specialization, for example, sell paint RTK, or RTK for the food industry. Others work in several industries simultaneously.


A non-trivial task is cutting pork carcasses with the German robot KUKA, such tasks are most often solved by integrators with a narrow specialization in this field

The largest integrators often work with one robot manufacturer, since there are certain differences in the software of industrial robots of various manufacturers. This makes it difficult for new ones to enter the market, including the creation of domestic manufacturers of industrial robots, since they will need to attract or create integrators to promote their products.

Applications


Industrial robots are used in various fields of human activity, the scope of their application is almost limitless and limited only by the imagination of the manufacturer and integrator.

The most famous area of ​​application of industrial robots, repeatedly covered in the press, is the production of cars. Creating an automobile production line based on industrial robots is an extremely difficult engineering task. In Russia, such lines are purchased in whole or created by foreign integrators.


First, the integrator develops the 3D model of the complex using special software, and then in the process of development this model is gradually embodied in the metal


As mentioned earlier, in Russia welding RTKs are most in demand. It can be either simple welding complexes or complex welding and assembly complexes, where at the input there is a set of parts, and at the output there is a finished product. Similar equipment can be surfaced - restoration of worn products.


Above is a simple single-zone RTK for welding the walls of containers, below is a multi-zone RTK in which several products can be processed simultaneously



Simulation of a dual-zone welding and assembly RTK for the manufacture of door leafs


A difficult technical task - search and welding of a tube plate by a robot

The use of robots on painting lines, plasma spraying lines, allows to achieve high uniformity of coating.

RTKs are gradually becoming widespread for handling cargo: sorting, packaging, stacking. Such RTKs were most widely used in the food industry, in car glass and sheet glass manufacturers, in pharmaceuticals and in the production of building materials.


Laying bricks in stacks of a specific configuration, depending on the type of brick



Robot in a pharmaceutical factory

RTKs can perform milling and plumbing of products, holding both the tool and the products in specialized grips (the tool in this case can be fixed permanently). Using the tool / gripper change system, the tool / gripper required for a particular type of machining can be selected.


RTK for metalwork of parts with change of capture of products


One of the most important tasks is the integration of industrial robots with machine tools. This can be work with a bending machine or feeding / removing products. The use of robots allows you to give old equipment new properties, significantly improve its performance.

This is just a very brief listing of the uses of RTK in industry. Robots can work both completely autonomously and interacting with humans. The carrying capacity of modern industrial robots is from several kilograms to several tons, the maximum axial speed is about 180 degrees per second, which allows for the highest performance of the RTK.

Why are robots in demand in industry?


Each enterprise has its own path to acquiring RTK. First of all, this, of course, is the highest performance on the same type of operations provided by modern RTKs, which a person cannot compare with. High productivity is a direct way to gaining advantages over competitors. The high initial cost of the RTK is offset by the absence of the need to pay robots salaries, processing and social benefits, the absence of holidays, maternity, hospital and other expenses. Technologically developed industrial enterprises initially lay down the cost of the RTK in the cost of a series of products, and write off the RTK at the end of the production, for example, of a particular car model. In other words, productivity is a key criterion for introducing industrial robots.

Another important factor is the quality of work, and, more importantly, stable quality. The robot does not get tired, so the quality of painting the car body or the assembly of an electronic device will be the same at the beginning and at the end of the shift. In Russia, and, possibly, in other countries, there is a problem of weekends and holidays, after which the quality of products often starts to limp, this is if employees generally went to work.

An equally important reason is the lack of qualified personnel. For example, the above example of welding a tube plate requires high qualification from the welder and his responsible attitude to work. Nobody wants to be left without heating in the winter because the seams in the boiler burst. The problem of the lack of highly professional and responsible workers is one of the key in modern production. Often a strange situation arises: there seems to be workers, but in fact there is no one to work with, because their qualifications are insufficient, and employees do not want to raise them. Remember the problem of welding long seams for the latest submarines. After the dashing 90s professional welders left for Gazprom, huge efforts were spent to restore competencies and train new workers.

Safety is the most important factor, unless, of course, the company offers a wooden leg and a parrot as compensation for workers injured in production. In modern companies, safety requirements are one of the defining ones, and industrial accidents hurt the top management's wallet.

An example is the cutting of large glass. The significant weight and size of the glass, for example, for glazing supermarkets, makes their movement by people extremely difficult and dangerous. In case the glass breaks, nearby people can be killed or mutilated. For the robot, this task is not difficult.

Tasks such as painting or coating involve personnel staying in toxic fumes, dust or suspended matter. This significantly increases wage costs due to harmful production conditions. Also, robots are used to work with molten metal, work in conditions of high and low ambient temperatures, toxic atmosphere and a number of other negative factors.

The flip side is the cleanliness of the robots themselves, especially in the special stainless steel design. A certified robot in food or pharmaceutical manufacturing, electronics manufacturing, pollutes the environment much less than humans, no matter how strange it sounds. The robot does not need overalls, masks, easier ventilation and the like, which greatly simplifies the certification process and the subsequent operation of the enterprise.

Unemployment as a result of robotization


Will large-scale robotization of industry lead to unemployment and a social explosion? To begin, let's see what happens if you abandon robotization.

For example, there are two dairy factories. Initially, both plants use human labor. In the process of modernization, one plant installed robotic processing, packaging and shipping lines, the second continues to use human labor. 100 people will remain at the first plant, 1000 at the second.

Very soon, perhaps immediately, the products of the first plant will become cheaper than the second, since its cost will initially be calculated taking into account the depreciation of the robotic production line. The cost of production of the second plant will gradually increase due to the growth of salaries and social benefits. None of the consumers will vote in rubles / dollars / euros for goods made precisely by human hands, they will choose a cheaper and better one. Especially if one of the negligent workers violates sanitary requirements, and consumers are poisoned by spoiled yoghurts.

As a result, after some time 100 people will continue to work at the first plant, and no one will work at the second plant, since it will go bankrupt. Here is a good example of an alternative to robotics. And yes, you have to understand that a bankrupt dairy won't pay taxes to the budget, unlike a robotic one.

A far-fetched situation? Not at all. Most major dairy producers are already robotic. The rest either occupy specific limited areas of the market, or eventually go broke and be swallowed up.

It's not about whether it is good or bad, but that it is inevitable. Consumers themselves will choose robotics, preferring better and cheaper cars, electronics and household appliances. The excavator has deprived thousands and millions of people of work with shovels, CNC machines have reduced the need for turners and milling machines. In the short term, construction 3D printers can drastically reduce the need for skilled builders and guest workers. In this sense, robotization is no different from any advanced technology that changes the life of society.

Suppose we close the country for robots, proclaim the era of socialism and a working man. In this case, the whole country will become unprofitable, for some time it will still move forward, but much slower than the competing countries, and ultimately it (the country) will inevitably collapse for the simple reason that people will look and compare the standard of living "Here" and "there."

Alternatives and consequences


Then how can society adapt to the automation and robotization of industry?

Most likely, several stages await us. At first, while robotization will affect a small part of the population, the movement of labor resources is possible within individual enterprises. For example, the introduction of a welding RTK will increase the productivity, increase the volume of manufactured products and transfer the welder to those areas where automation is impossible or unprofitable (there are almost always such areas). Or the company may organize training courses to change the specialization of employees who have lost their jobs as a result of robotization. That is, you will have to study and retrain in any case who want to get the specialty of an 2 turner and live with it until retirement, at best, waiting for unemployment benefits or very low-paid vacancies that do not require qualifications.

At the next stage, with an increase in the volume of robotization, decisions on job creation and retraining of citizens at the regional level may already be required. The base of needs of enterprises will be needed to ensure the rapid movement of labor between enterprises in the region.

And finally, at a certain stage of industrial robotization, the principle of basic unconditional income can be realized, which guarantees citizens a certain minimum amount of earnings, providing an initial standard of living. In the future, it can be increased due to the implementation of social work, public service or commercial activities. It sounds fantastic, almost like communism, however, even now such an opportunity is already being considered by some countries (a referendum was held in Switzerland on this issue), and years through 30-50, when robotics become a global phenomenon, unconditional basic income may not be a good wish but an objective necessity.

Where will all this money come from? From the taxes of those same robotic enterprises. High taxation for companies modeled on some European countries is most likely inevitable. Will corporations do this? The question will be between the lack of markets and a social explosion or high taxes and basic unconditional income, one way or another, you have to make a choice.

For humanity as a whole, global robotics and the introduction of basic unconditional income will mean another round of natural selection, when some will choose the path of passive degradation, while others will use the free time for personal growth, training and self-development.
Author:
Photos used:
kuka.com, ifr.org, arkodimpro.ru, eidos-robotics.ru, robots.steelsite.ru
275 comments
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  1. Rwmos
    Rwmos 28 September 2019 05: 21 New
    +13
    Very soon, perhaps immediately, the products of the first plant will become cheaper than the second

    The problem is that there will be no one to buy the products of the first plant. Money for purchases from people in the country appears only from the surplus value that real production creates. So far, real production occupied, as in the beginning of the 20 century, 30% of agricultural production, the same amount of industry, and all sorts of scientists, writers, artists and managers accounted for 5-7% - this was normal. But in a situation where 1 with a batch is seven with a spoon, 3-4% of the population is in agriculture, the same amount in industry, the cost of milk can be arbitrarily low - no one can buy it, because even without robots, a factory with 1000 employees feeds approximately 30 of thousands of “service workers”. This is without robotization.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 28 September 2019 06: 38 New
      +5
      funny. and then who will buy the products of the second plant according to your scenario?) look here. There are several local manufacturers in my city. all quality. all the milk. not long-term storage sour cream by weight to choose from different .. and they nonetheless are not only developing and pushing among themselves, but they also give competition to those who are in the nearest regions and want to market. and lo and behold, they also raise quality. and everything is for sale. constant stocks and attempts to seize market share. if everything is bad in this market why is constant modernization and competition taking place?
      1. depressant
        depressant 28 September 2019 08: 49 New
        +6
        Yes, the author’s unsuccessful example came out with milk. Also in the sense that dairy products manufactured with the help of robots and therefore having a lower prime cost will never be cheaper in the store than those that are produced "manually." First, the owner of the enterprise, well, say, within six months, you need to recoup the cost of robotization, and he will sell products at the same wholesale price as competitors. And after the payback period, the thirst for profit will leap up, and the wholesale price of the vacation will not decrease. Not only that, he will crush a competitor not by lowering the price, but by the fact that robots will allow him to increase the volume of output, which means distributing it to a larger number of outlets. And expand the range in the form of all sorts of yogurt. Otherwise, what's the point of spending money on robotics? So that the consumer does not have diarrhea? Now, no one has diarrhea from milk; everything is sealed with robotics. Diarrhea is a matter of sanitation.
        And if money was found for robotization, then such a capitalist will be able to find additional funds - he will also crush a competitor due to the active work of management and aggressive advertising. As a result, the most expensive in the store is not the dairy products that are produced through manual labor (I repeat, all of them are now at the expense of robots), but the one that is most often advertised as supposedly better.
        ... On the shelves in the "Five" with a dozen varieties of milk in tetrapacks. He is all - powder with the addition of soy, in some more, in some less. Or in soft bags, boiled under a dal - "long-playing." People quickly make out milk in soft bags of local small production - it is small and seems to be natural. It seems to be. It is cheaper because it is produced nearby. In the end, everything is bought up. And all this milk is sealed in bags by robots. Robot owners are happy. Buyers are not. The price is growing steadily due to stable inflation. And salaries for inflation are just as unstable. And the further, the more. It was conceived in the capitalist world back in the 70s of the last century, when the resource in the form of working women managed to come to an end. Inflation is an additional way to enrich large capital. Now with us.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 28 September 2019 10: 48 New
          +4
          I give a specific example of a real meat factory. In 12, productive German equipment was bought, and at 14 rubles it falls twice. Credit from suppliers in $ .....
          Question to experts: greatly reduced the cost of production?
          Article plus. In a stable currency and the absence of slave labor, everything is true.
          1. Shahno
            Shahno 28 September 2019 11: 32 New
            +3
            //. In a stable currency and the absence of slave labor, everything is true.
            How is it in Russian reality with a stable currency and slave labor now?
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 28 September 2019 11: 36 New
              +1
              Now a steady trend-trend-redistribution of profits in the direction of trading networks and the company’s profit simply does not allow to buy expensive equipment. Food workers are now under the control of either networks or banks. This is the practice of the last 5 years.
              1. Rwmos
                Rwmos 28 September 2019 16: 14 New
                -4
                Trading networks - garbage. There are 4 fundamentally unsolvable problems of liberalism:
                https://alexandr-rogers.livejournal.com/1031094.html
            2. Saxahorse
              Saxahorse 28 September 2019 20: 49 New
              +1
              Quote: Shahno
              How is it in Russian reality with a stable currency and slave labor now?

              Please specify what you mean by currency stability. Minimum production depreciation cycle of 7 years. And when was the last time we had the ruble exchange rate doubled ???
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 28 September 2019 08: 16 New
      +8
      K. Marx once tried to predict this situation. In his opinion, this should have led to a short working day, and the man of the future, who had freed up time, should have spent on self-development and creativity. The reality of this future shows that a person without a productive
      work turns into an animal that consumes entertainment and benefits.
      1. Rwmos
        Rwmos 28 September 2019 08: 23 New
        -5
        More or less like this. And the most striking example is Scandinavian, now bending socialism. For example, in Norway 20% are engaged in productive labor, the remaining 80% are unprofitable. For some time they will still live there on the remains of Norwegian carbon - and then what? Who will feed the 80% parasites?
        That would be to ask the mentally retarded that pig at the UN - what will it eat in 30 years, and who will treat it?
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 28 September 2019 12: 39 New
          +11
          Do not worry about Norway. They have the State Oil Fund for the population will work. Already today it has more than $ 1 trillion per 5 million people. This is our "superfluous" "will be asked to exit." Already now, at a minimum, "non-observers" do not hinder the extinction.
          1. Rwmos
            Rwmos 28 September 2019 16: 10 New
            -2
            But why worry about Norway, which now has the same oil-state fund as 80%, and it has already been announced that oil and gas production will be reduced, due to the depletion of deposits? That's it, this fund has ended - they will receive grants in the next five-year period - by the 2025 year they will officially get it only for themselves, for domestic consumption, and the fund will have everything, nothing will come. Worry, don’t worry, and from "nichrome" - horseradish will not grow
            1. pru-pavel
              pru-pavel 28 September 2019 17: 25 New
              +2
              They’re eating so much that it’s getting bigger every year.
            2. tracer
              tracer 28 September 2019 22: 10 New
              -1
              Do not respond to minusers. Not many are savvy in economics
              The bulk of the "take and share." Business then ...
            3. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 29 September 2019 11: 48 New
              -1
              Norwegian fund continues to grow, it is forbidden to eat, you can only eat interest that is dripping from investments.
    3. Barmaleyka
      Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 10: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: RWMos
      and to all kinds of scientists

      if we had a lot of scientists, we have a lot of jesters, click clickers and other "elite"

  2. Mikhail Drabkin
    Mikhail Drabkin 28 September 2019 05: 27 New
    +7
    You write Andrei Mitrofanov
    For humanity as a whole, global robotics and the introduction of basic unconditional income will mean another round of natural selection, when some will choose the path of passive degradation, while others will use the free time for personal growth, training and self-development.

    —- Yes, to a certain round of natural selection during the transition from socialism to capitalism in Russia
    —- Another and pleasant brewing cruel round of robotization for the same selection.
    -According to Chubais, I just think in a different ratio ...
    —25% of the working-age population (young) adapt,
    —-50% (old people and “wimps”) will exist on the meager basic income allowance,
    —- And 25% (middle-aged) will study in debt and benefits, hoping to join the adaptive.
    —- Long live the glorious future !!!
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 28 September 2019 07: 56 New
      +10
      . Let's say we close the country for robots, proclaim the era of socialism and a working person. In this case the whole country will become unprofitable

      Why did the author suddenly decide that under socialism there were no robots? Wow! And how did the USSR manage to be the second economy in the world if socialism, according to the author, was unprofitable?
      1. SHURUM -BURUM
        SHURUM -BURUM 28 September 2019 09: 28 New
        +17
        There were robots under socialism, no need to lie. I personally took a small part in their adaptation. Our factory had a huge robotic workshop. And it was not a tribute to fashion or the desire to catch up with and overtake someone. It was a great technological solution. In this workshop, manipulators controlled by a reconfigurable cyclic automatic machine were engaged in stamping and post processing of metal small things, which was a huge mass at a large instrument-making plant. And for the whole workshop - a dozen and a half people. And this did not cause any unemployment. And there, mainly, young workers were drawn. Now what? Everywhere, CNC machines and space machining prices. Cheaper turner to hire. A handmade item will cost less. This is a question about the economy.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 September 2019 11: 33 New
        0
        The USSR was the second economy since it provided half of the world with its products for barter and loyalty, exports brought little in foreign currency - the planned economy provided all citizens with work and production load, but part of the production worked at a loss, in the early 80s the country’s money began to run out at the end The 80s ended finally - the authorities ran for foreign loans from the beginning to the banks, then to the governments. Why did many enterprises die in the 90s: breaking ties, deliberate bankruptcy, ignorance of the new market conditions - maybe in the market conditions the majority of the products became uncompetitive, take the same AvtoVAZ - how much money they swelled into it, and it began to bring profit only when its French given and he began to produce competitive products, and not buckets with bolts.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 28 September 2019 11: 37 New
          +2
          Quote: Vadim237
          not buckets with bolts.

          Niva was supplied to more than one hundred countries of the world.
        2. SOVIET UNION 2
          SOVIET UNION 2 28 September 2019 12: 09 New
          +6
          And now Russia is also a second economy? Do we provide half the world today? And today we have currencies? So heaps that already exported to offshore, and then hold economic forums asking foreign investors to invest in the country! laughing Why it happens? Is it good or bad? Why are there so many bankruptcies today? Bankruptcies positively affect the economy? At sunset, the Union ran for loans to banks and governments! Bravo Vadim! Taking off my hat! Today, at economic forums, we are asked for investments, and not we from them? When AvtoVAZ was given to the French, it began to make a profit! Bravo! Bravo! Urgently need to give everything to foreigners? But did the Russian government give AvtoVAZ absolutely nothing? It seems that they have invested. Or were the investments in the wrong system?
          1. Sergey1987
            Sergey1987 28 September 2019 14: 57 New
            -1
            Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
            Today, at economic forums, we are asked for investments, and not we from them?

            You talk about investments as about loans. And we invest and invest in us. And this is good.
            Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
            Why are there so many bankruptcies today?

            Give an example?
            1. SOVIET UNION 2
              SOVIET UNION 2 28 September 2019 16: 00 New
              +5
              Judging by the constant proposals to invest in Russia and the persistent proposals to create the Territories of Advanced Development, there are no one who wants to invest in Russia.
              Has the state helped any of the bankrupt? Of the big ones? About small and say nothing. Today, many new firms are opening. But after some time they close.
              The largest increase in bankruptcy is in construction, commercial services, agriculture and mechanical engineering. Bankruptcy reduction only in the electric power industry. According to the channel RBC.
              After each rehabilitation, 50-100 new corporate bankruptcies occur.
              According to others, the reason for bankruptcy is to improve the quality of the tax.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 28 September 2019 17: 02 New
                -1
                "After each reorganization, 50-100 new corporate bankruptcies occur.
                According to others, the reason for bankruptcies is to improve the quality of the tax. "One-day companies open and close - the number of bankruptcies has not been announced, how many per year?
                1. SOVIET UNION 2
                  SOVIET UNION 2 29 September 2019 03: 16 New
                  +1
                  In 2018, 377,6 thousand new companies were opened.
                  Closed 673 thousand
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 30 September 2019 17: 59 New
                    -1
                    And this is with 10 million entrepreneurs and self-employed?
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 28 September 2019 16: 58 New
            -2
            And Russia is not the USSR, which included 15 countries and we do not have a planned economy and also there is no half of the world in a dependent position, now at least the country is earning and offshore is needed as a tool to circumvent sanctions. Since the year 2000, they invested $ 1,5 trillion in Russia - Russia is investing in all countries of the world in this regard, since the market economy is everywhere and everyone has it. "But did the Russian government give AvtoVAZ nothing at all? It seems that they have invested." “They just kept the company afloat.”
            1. SOVIET UNION 2
              SOVIET UNION 2 29 September 2019 03: 21 New
              +3
              Well! It turns out that the Soviet Union with a planned economy was still more powerful than modern Russia! Contained 15 republics and half the world! And it contained car factories! Which modern Russia was not able to contain! hi Bravo Vadim! He himself acknowledged my point by his comment!
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 30 September 2019 18: 02 New
                -1
                Contained 15 republics and half the world! And it contained car factories! - At this content, it went bankrupt and car factories for the most part produced obsolete products - now there are other car factories of foreign brands in Russia.
                1. SOVIET UNION 2
                  SOVIET UNION 2 30 September 2019 20: 35 New
                  +2
                  Vadim! You are an interesting person! It seems like a businessman. Is there a difference in the situation of your factory and import or not? In my opinion there is. Its when your development. And a stranger is when you work on uncle’s patterns. But why these patterns are so stupid you do not know. Then the uncle will innovate, and you will work on the same patterns. And you will never catch up with your uncle or even overtake! And how do you write, release obsolete products! hi
        3. Keyser soze
          Keyser soze 28 September 2019 13: 57 New
          +3
          USSR was the second economy


          With numbers you need to be careful.

          Share in world GDP, at face value:

          Russian Empire, 1913 year - 13,1%
          USSR, 1980 year - 12,7% (USA - 31,7%)
          RF, 2018 - 1,98% (USA - 23,5%)

          PS PPP GDP is a comfort to the poor. Do you have a Bosch or Volkswagen washing machine at face value, not PPP?
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 28 September 2019 17: 14 New
            0
            “Do you sell Bosch or Volkswagen washing at par, not at PPP?” Only now these Volkswagen and Bosch are produced in Russia. GDP in tenth place is a good indicator from 195 countries of the world. The United States imports more than exports 1,5 times.
            1. Keyser soze
              Keyser soze 28 September 2019 20: 37 New
              +4
              Only now these Volkswagen and Bosch are produced in Russia.


              But their company produces Bosch. And she makes a profit. In Turkey, also produced. The costs are about the same and the final price is the same. A German buys Bosch for say 600 euros and a Russian for 600 euros too - PPP does not help here.

              GDP in tenth place - a good indicator from 195 countries


              Not bad for Sechin. And if the level of well-being of the people is not in the 10 place, then this raises questions :) But you will ask them to your rulers.

              I’ll put you a plus so that they don’t kick.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 28 September 2019 21: 16 New
                -1
                And what does Sechin have to do with it - they pay him that the company will earn for the year, in the form of bonuses, and the biggest reason it has - dividends.
          2. Saxahorse
            Saxahorse 28 September 2019 21: 01 New
            +1
            Quote: Keyser Soze
            With numbers you need to be careful.

            With numbers you need to be even more careful. A comparison of the socialist and capitalist economies directly in numbers usually gives a complete zilch. Let me remind you not by night of the remembered M. Thatcher. into the light which called the USSR "Upper Volta" with missiles. But at the same time, which spoiled the whole impression of the aphorism with its own complaint about the huge lag of England from the USSR in the fleet .. That is on GDP like Congo and Soviet aircraft carriers apparently themselves, hatched on palm trees?

            Today we see the same misunderstanding regarding China. Despite spells about indispensable problems, China's GDP growth can only be compared with the USSR in the best years.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 28 September 2019 21: 18 New
              0
              Most of China's products are poor in quality.
      3. at84432384
        at84432384 28 September 2019 19: 10 New
        +6
        It's just that the author is too young and did not live as an adult in the USSR. The USSR by a wide margin was in first place in robotics. And then it turned out several negative points in its implementation. The very first one is that the number of workers decreases slightly (about 10 times the author tightly bent), and for the operation of the robot, a low-skilled worker is required, but for repair, the highest. The robot does not work 24 hours 365 days a year. It requires adjustment, readjustment, routine and restoration work, etc. The introduction of a robot requires high initial material costs that return for many years, but may not return at all. The return on assets (return on investment) is reduced. The introduction of robots only for mass production turned out to be cost-effective. Then that the USSR, which is in second place, Japan began to reduce the pace of introduction of robots. Reaganomics gave a second wind to the introduction of robotics (the United States began to print dollars for cheap loans). Cars began to be bought up like pies, household appliances and their production became extremely cost-effective. The boom of robots. And overstocking. In the internet you can find videos of unsold parking lots in square kilometers. There is one under Peter. Now this economic model has run out of steam. Moreover, the digital economy will kill mass production - the manufacturer will know in advance both his buyer and what he specifically needs. There will be no work at the warehouse. Why then super-productive and expensive robots? How much I read the arguments about general robotization, I wonder how much: and the robots themselves do not grow on the tree. To create them, people and many are needed. And very educated, and not just technically. There will simply be a transfer of human resources from the sphere of production of goods and services to the sphere of development and production of robots. And it is very doubtful that mass unemployment would begin. Rather, the opposite. But what exactly is required is to radically change the education system and prepare not a “competent consumer” as the head of the ministry put it, but a human creator, as it was in the USSR.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 28 September 2019 19: 33 New
          -3
          Quote: at84432384
          It turned out to be cost-effective to introduce robots only for mass production

          Cap?

          Quote: at84432384
          the digital economy will kill mass production - the manufacturer will know in advance both his buyer and what he specifically needs

          Um ... while "what they wanted" is produced - this blonde wants another ...

          Quote: at84432384
          There will be no work at the warehouse

          Schazz ... see above.

          Quote: at84432384
          there will be an overflow of human resources from the sphere of production of goods and services to the sphere of development and production of robots

          ABOUT! Warmly...

          Quote: at84432384
          what exactly is needed is to radically change the education system and prepare not a “competent consumer” as the head of the Ministry of Education put it, but a human creator, as it was in the USSR

          It is very difficult to take seriously a writer, who seems to be on a serious topic, and who is also operating on Internet memes.

          A “competent consumer” is primarily a competent user, with information (the volume and quality of which has changed over the 30 years ... well, very seriously), which is available. And which you, my friend, just don’t know how to use ... otherwise you wouldn’t write such nonsense request
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 28 September 2019 08: 17 New
      -2
      Quote: Michael Drabkin
      —- Long live the glorious future !!!

      and how many percent will come up with robots?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 September 2019 11: 34 New
        +1
        About 20 percent will be served by robots: repair, write programs, make parts, etc.
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 28 September 2019 13: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Vadim237
          About 20 percent will be served by robots:

          and how many percent will be served by those 20 percent that serve robots? And in general, what is the meaning of life?
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 28 September 2019 13: 57 New
            +2
            Quote: aybolyt678
            And in general, what is the meaning of life?

            Yes, hit the head with Vadik and Caliber ...
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 28 September 2019 17: 18 New
            +1
            And in general, what is the meaning of life? To create and disseminate the new, including in the universe, the nature does not tolerate emptiness, robotics, even in the most distant future, will not replace a person, the more complex the mechanism, the more expensive it is.
  3. kalibr
    kalibr 28 September 2019 06: 02 New
    +4
    Very good article!
  4. aszzz888
    aszzz888 28 September 2019 06: 10 New
    +7
    The article is powerful, prepared and supported by the appropriate photo material. The author has gone too far + his.
    The Russian Federation (RF) is currently one of the countries with the least number of industrial robots deployed, approximately 3 robots for 10 000 people
    As for Russia, as always, "harnessed for a long time."
    And if you publish material on military robots (in accessible media) it will be interesting to compare that indicator.
    1. SOVIET UNION 2
      SOVIET UNION 2 28 September 2019 12: 14 New
      -2
      In military robots, is it like drones? If robots are for production, then it doesn’t matter what kind of production. Although I agree that an article about army drones of theirs and ours would be of great interest. It is interesting to compare theirs and ours!
  5. tracer
    tracer 28 September 2019 06: 16 New
    -4
    I wonder where to get such an amount of energy on all these utopian miracle robots? You just imagine the enormous amount of energy spent on the production of these robots and then its costs when working with robotic enterprises. And is this with the progressive schizophrenic fashion of renewable clean energy? Sufficient only for mentally ill under-children to come forward with tantrums at the UN. It is simply impossible to obtain such volumes of energy, unless they learn to receive it infinitely from the surrounding space (as Tesla suggested). But this is all the future and it is very foggy. The targeted introduction of robotic complexes will continue, but the situation (demography, for example) as a reason will not change dramatically. Any system cannot be complicated indefinitely and at the same time remain effective. This is directly related to industrial production.
    1. depressant
      depressant 28 September 2019 10: 59 New
      +2
      Yes, energy is a problem.
      Some commission worked in 2006, international, and found that the amount of electricity that is needed to provide all the inhabitants of the Earth at least at the household level needs to be increased by 2030 by 50%. Despite the fact that fossil sources threaten to deplete soon.
      Well, thermonuclear scientists are straining.
      Research has long been underway at the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) in France. Ours do not just participate there, but provide a significant and important part of the experiment. Yes, things are still there. They say that another 25 years is necessary to bring the industrial reactor DEMO to the test phase. So the nuclear power plants - thermonuclear power plants - will begin to be built no earlier than the year 2045.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 September 2019 11: 40 New
        +3
        Ours in Russia with fusion also do not stand still in Sarov, creating the most powerful laser system in the world for fusion - they promise to launch it next year.
      2. SOVIET UNION 2
        SOVIET UNION 2 28 September 2019 12: 17 New
        +4
        But in Russia there seem to be no problems with electricity. Many cities and factories are no longer there and there is no one to consume energy. Look, even in China we sell surpluses.
        1. depressant
          depressant 28 September 2019 13: 15 New
          +2
          But there are problems with the connection. In one of the closest topics, one of the colleagues complained that connecting the new building to the power grid is a whole story at the cost of almost the new building itself. On the network in the form of private distribution organizations, which Chubais left behind, the mafia has settled in, doing what they want. It is even more difficult to connect to a small enterprise - the price of the issue and the mountain of papers with approvals.
        2. Sergey1987
          Sergey1987 28 September 2019 14: 59 New
          -2
          Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
          But in Russia there seem to be no problems with electricity. Many cities and factories are no longer there and there is no one to consume energy.

          What cities aren't there? But there are no problems with energy, because we are developing energy.
          1. SOVIET UNION 2
            SOVIET UNION 2 28 September 2019 16: 14 New
            +5
            The internet is full of information about abandoned cities, villages and enterprises. Devastation is especially visible in the villages. Empty streets with abandoned houses. Those that stand, live out their lives. The feelings after what he saw are far from optimistic. All this somehow does not fit with the joyful exclamations of Muscovites, oh how well we began to live today!
            Energy development? For whom? Who is its consumer? Network stores and cellular stations? For whom to develop it if new industries are not created? Well, there are sites ** Made with us ** and ** Factory photo **. But in my opinion these sites are complete bullshit. Vaughn AvtoGAZ is about to go on a four-day trip. Deripaska spoke with the workers on this subject. Well, and to whom to develop? And Medvedev is ready at least tomorrow to go on a four-day.
            1. Saxahorse
              Saxahorse 28 September 2019 21: 05 New
              +3
              Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
              All this somehow does not fit with the joyful exclamations of Muscovites, oh how well we began to live today!

              Is there life beyond the Moscow Ring Road? Moscow scientists have not yet come to a definite conclusion! laughing
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 28 September 2019 21: 21 New
                -2
                And you have no other cities beyond the Moscow Ring Road - for example: Yekaterinburg, Novosibirsk, Sochi, Kazan, Khabarovsk, St. Petersburg, Irkutsk.
                1. Saxahorse
                  Saxahorse 28 September 2019 21: 37 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  And you have no other cities beyond the Moscow Ring Road - for example: Yekaterinburg, Novosibirsk, Sochi, Kazan, Khabarovsk, St. Petersburg, Irkutsk.

                  Personally, I can add Vladivostok, Chelyabinsk, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Nizhny, Volgograd and ..

                  But for most decision-makers - life beyond the MKAD - no.
                  1. Saxahorse
                    Saxahorse 28 September 2019 21: 42 New
                    +3
                    "The State Duma categorically refused to move to a new complex of government buildings located in the New Moscow region, outside the Moscow Ring Road." laughing
                  2. Sergey1987
                    Sergey1987 3 October 2019 14: 13 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Saxahorse
                    But for most decision-makers - life beyond the MKAD - no.

                    Why do you think so?
          2. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 28 September 2019 17: 00 New
            0
            Quote: Sergey1987
            But there are no problems with energy, because we are developing energy.

            What are you developing there?

            How much now, when demolishing an old grandmother’s house and building a new one, do you have to pay for the connection again?
            from 50 thousand rubles.

            And for connecting houses and cottages in all kinds of cottage villages?
            I will tell you also - from 50 to 400 thousand rubles.
        3. Vadim237
          Vadim237 28 September 2019 17: 20 New
          -2
          They are building new factories - it’s not being created at all, since Russia will not see a big country — will you decide on cities or villages? “Medvedev is ready to go on a four-day trip even tomorrow” - This idea has already been abandoned.
          1. SOVIET UNION 2
            SOVIET UNION 2 29 September 2019 03: 34 New
            -1
            What plants are they building? If you look at new plants, they are mainly tied to the oil and gas sector. Either for the processing of oil and gas, or (in fact the workshop) for the production of valves or drilling tools. Yes, the production of pipes and steel has increased. But after all, we are pulling pipes at an accelerated pace to Europe, Turkey, China. Well, the Chinese are helping to build something in shipbuilding. Shipbuilding is also focused on the oil and gas sector.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 30 September 2019 18: 10 New
              0
              Well, yes, the oil and gas sector - in shipbuilding, especially 200 new vessels ranging from trawlers to floating depots with new cruise liners, the fishing fleet renewal program continues in the coming years, another 200 vessels will be built - the record holder in this regard is Pella.
            2. Sergey1987
              Sergey1987 3 October 2019 15: 12 New
              +2
              Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
              What plants are they building? If you look at new plants, they are mainly tied to the oil and gas sector. Either for the processing of oil and gas, or (in fact the workshop) for the production of valves or drilling tools.

              Will you list the factories built for July? Or August?
              1. SOVIET UNION 2
                SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 17: 17 New
                -2
                Well, what did they build? Three workshops throughout the country! Do not tell about plants. Invested in the construction of the plant 10 million rubles! Is this a factory? Laugh. Large units are being built. And then, for the commodity sector. Although small, too, the same focus. Build Russia factories, China would buy goods from us, and not us in China. This is evident in products in stores and the internet. Whatever you buy, everything is China. About done with us and the plant photo is not necessary. It’s enough to watch videos of how quickly the Chinese are building and looking out at the street with us. I’ve not seen how quickly they’re building commercials with us. Yes, and around rapid change is not visible. Well, except for Moscow, of course!
                1. Sergey1987
                  Sergey1987 4 October 2019 14: 40 New
                  0
                  Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                  Well, what did they build? Three workshops throughout the country! Do not tell about plants. Invested in the construction of the plant 10 million rubles! Is this a factory? Laugh

                  You first figure out what and how much you built, and then we'll see if it is funny or not. If you don’t want to read or understand anything, it’s easier to engage in criticism.
                  Total for September 2019
                  25 new manufactures
                  11 of them are production facilities with investments of more than 1 billion rubles (26 million)
                  total announced investments of more than 30 billion rubles
                  three industries have not reported investment
                  By industry:
                  Engineering and metalworking - 6
                  Building materials and repair - 7
                  Chemical industry - 3
                  Electronics and Electrical Engineering - 1
                  Medicine and Pharmacy - 1
                  Textile industry - 3
                  Mining industry - 0
                  Woodworking industry - 1
                  Other - 3
                  By investment sources:
                  foreign - 5
                  Russian or mixed - 20
                  Do you also list the names of enterprises? All that you wrote is complete nonsense.
                  Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                  China would buy goods from us, not us in China

                  And we do not sell goods in China? Or do you think a ballpoint pen is a product, but the Su-35 is not?
                  Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                  This can be seen on products in stores and the internet.

                  You go to the store and read mainly whose product is produced.
                  Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                  About done with us and the plant photo is not necessary.

                  Or maybe just right ?! The site was created just for critics like you. With photos and videos, so that people like you do not lie. Everything is there in fact.
                  Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                  Residue to watch videos of how quickly the Chinese are building and looking out at the street with us. I’ve not seen how quickly they’re building commercials with us.

                  Well, yes, the Chinese are building fast, but that does not mean that we are not building anything.
                  Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                  Yes, and around rapid change is not visible. Well, except for Moscow, of course!

                  Do not carry nonsense. Look at Yekaterinburg, St. Petersburg, Sochi, Kazan, Krasnodar and a bunch of others.
                  1. SOVIET UNION 2
                    SOVIET UNION 2 4 October 2019 15: 31 New
                    -2
                    For one open production we have 1.8-2.6 closed. Suppose new production at the same time and more productive. But why then do we have 56% export of raw materials? And why do we buy machinery and equipment in China? And in oil production, too. I looked at what technique the Armenian brothers lay asphalt. I did not see the Russian. In manufactured goods goods or Chinese. or assembled in Russia from components. Collected from us. quality does not shine. I recently took a washer of our assembly. They shamefully hide the manufacturer. and roars like a plane. The same Aurus was created only with the help of foreigners, and the entire military man was from the USSR. Recently there was news that the Americans in 30 hours (with the planned 48 hours of work) built (repaired) 16 km of asphalt. And as I understand it with five lanes there and five back. Where is the similar news in Russia? The Chinese in 72 hours dismantled the overpass, put in a new one, laid asphalt and laid out the markings. Where similar in Russia? Why should I look at megacities if I don’t live there? We have two and three-story buildings that have not been inhabited for years. Settlement is certainly going, but very slowly. In a quarter century, only five candles have been built. Also not quickly populated. Plots for individual construction are also largely undeveloped. But full of signage, rent and sell. What is the growth if the premises are empty?
        4. at84432384
          at84432384 28 September 2019 19: 52 New
          -1
          After the reform of Chubais, RAO EU problems appeared. Now there is no single energy system and there is no free flow of energy from one region to another. Now in one place it’s thick, in another it’s empty. Did not pay attention to the "record" floods in Siberia and the Far East? For decades, towns and villages have stood, and now they have been washed away every year. In order to get additional profit, the owners of the hydroelectric power station began to regularly dump the stored water in the reservoirs. When the governor of the Khabarovsk Territory announced this, he was first removed, then a criminal case was opened. In our country, we cannot talk about the problems of the electric power industry.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 28 September 2019 21: 26 New
            -1
            "Settlements and villages stood for decades" - And every year they were drowned - sometimes ice jams were destroyed by floods, all over Russia, in 2013 in the Krasnodar Territory the whole city was flooded at night after the rain - 150 people died - where was the hydroelectric power station dumped?
            1. SOVIET UNION 2
              SOVIET UNION 2 29 September 2019 03: 39 New
              0
              Well, it was necessary to create ponds with locks and clean the riverbeds. Then the flood would be less. And in dry weather it would be fire ponds. But this requires government policy. Something often in modern Russia we began to burn and sink. That neighing that normal people are harvesting, and in the USSR they are fighting for it! Today we have a battle with fire and water. Che not laughing?
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 30 September 2019 18: 14 New
                0
                There, the water level rose by 14 meters - what a cleaning of the river bed, the river is full-flowing with a strong current, the only problem is that our lady’s rams are stuck on the very shore - realizing that they can be flooded and demolished by ice during ice drift.
                1. SOVIET UNION 2
                  SOVIET UNION 2 30 September 2019 20: 26 New
                  0
                  As for the houses by the water I agree. But the following question arises. Who gave the building permit? But I do not agree with the water level. If the channel capacity is reduced, then the level will automatically increase.
    2. nikon7717
      nikon7717 28 September 2019 13: 36 New
      0
      You contradict yourself. Robots stand still, energy is additionally spent only on the movements of manipulators. And this is electricity. maximum efficiency during production. For instrumental operations, the flow rate is standard.
      New professions of the robot operator are already needed here. They need maintenance, prevention, lubrication, reloading programs, etc. Sawing disks will be updated by a locksmith, but with a new advanced qualification. On welding, cutting, gas, oxygen, welding wire, etc.
    3. gsev
      gsev 28 September 2019 19: 34 New
      0
      Quote: tracer
      You just imagine the enormous amount of energy spent on the production of these robots and then its costs when working with robotic enterprises.

      Do not forget that a person requires heating and ventilation of a workshop, water supply system, toilet, change house for changing clothes. In addition, a person and his family spend about 0,5 kW per hour on lighting and $ 2000 per year on heating an apartment. If the robot mixes cement, sand and additives, dispenses them in bags and puts these bags on pallets, then robotic production can consume less energy than is spent on the necessary workers.
    4. tracer
      tracer 28 September 2019 22: 13 New
      -2
      Who are you minuser? Do you understand what you read? Like the letters are not very many.
  6. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 28 September 2019 06: 33 New
    +6
    I liked the article. It is felt that the author approached the topic with a business consciousness. Looks fantastic "dressed up" in white mechanism for cutting pork carcasses ... good And here is our fish cutting:
    1. Avior
      Avior 28 September 2019 08: 36 New
      +3
      I once knew guys, students who went to Alaska to earn money under a student program, fish to process, then they traveled to earned money in the United States
      Processing technology has not gone very far.
  7. parusnik
    parusnik 28 September 2019 06: 56 New
    +10
    Often a strange situation arises: there seems to be workers, but in fact there is no one to work with, because their qualifications are insufficient, and employees do not want to raise them.
    ..... Again, the cat is to blame ... Training is provided at the expense of the employer. For example, for a long time this shop was closed for full-fledged training, the maximum that there are three or one-day courses left, they are several times cheaper .. And even the trained staff, the employer is not interested, when there was an "optimization" they reduced those who were trained, well, age 50 - 55 years ... Then they reported .. They took young people to these places ... They have an initial salary less than those who were fired, pay less to the Pension Fund ... But this is so, by the way ... Although we have not a particularly robotic enterprise, service sector .. But continuing education is required ..
  8. Alex 1970
    Alex 1970 28 September 2019 07: 13 New
    +3
    "In Russia, and possibly in other countries, there is a problem of weekends and holidays, after which the quality of products often starts to limp, this is if employees generally went to work." As it is familiar, the engineer himself is a welder, after a business trip, pay, and advance payment, the marriage is rushing. And the slag installers do not clean up the pores and lack of fusion. And this is not only on manual, cook and automatic machines in shielding gas, and there they manage to twist. Even forget to change the gas, resulting in a grid of pores. And you still can’t get away from robots. There will probably be something in the middle, otherwise the social consequences are very sad even with a guaranteed minimum. A person will go crazy from idleness. Well, not all of course
    1. Alex 1970
      Alex 1970 28 September 2019 07: 15 New
      +5
      I really liked the article, a qualitative analysis and without populism about taxis and sellers
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 September 2019 11: 43 New
      -2
      Robots will not replace welders, even in the most distant future.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 September 2019 22: 31 New
        -1
        Especially in street work and with cars under repair and other cases - especially with argon arc welding.
  9. Mainbeam
    Mainbeam 28 September 2019 07: 16 New
    +7
    Thank. The article is interesting, there is little water, the conclusions are simple and unambiguous.

    Where will all this money come from? From the taxes of those same robotic enterprises. High taxation for companies modeled on some European countries is most likely inevitable. Will corporations do this? The question will be between lack of sales and social explosion or high taxes and basic unconditional incomeone way or another, you have to make a choice.

    Definitely will be. If you do not pay social programs, then how much money to buy products made by robots? Production for consumption. No consumption - no production needed. The population will die out, like homeless people in the fall, so for whom then cars rivet? Rivet while there is for someone.

    For humanity as a whole, global robotics and the introduction of basic unconditional income will mean another round of natural selection, when some choose the path passive degradationand others use the freed time for personal growth, learning and self-development.

    Those who are brought up under our school system will be degraded, because the most important behavioral question is erased by this system: "What can you do best?" How many of you can answer now?



    Because all under one comb without an understanding of individual characteristics through repeated repetition of secondary skills. I'm not even talking about the standard division into humanities and techies. With the change of 2 modern systems (education and institution of marriage), the desire for self-perfection is possible.

  10. Lexus
    Lexus 28 September 2019 07: 21 New
    +8
    Great article! Real knowledge of the subject, unlike talking heads from the government.
    There is an opinion that the country's development is now determined by the number of robots per 1000 people - well, be surprised at the achievements of Koreans. And special unemployment is not visible there.
    The Chinese government strongly supports robotics as the most important way to maintain the competitiveness of its industry and the country as a whole.
    In Russia, the situation is left to chance. Robots are considered to be Uzbeks. The result is a completely non-competitive industry with a few exceptions for the defense industry. Industrial enterprises in the Russian Federation are able to operate only in niche markets and partly domestic.
    Hence low wages and unemployment. The paradox - the lack of robotics - leads to unemployment and the lack of demand for highly intellectual labor.
    Basic income - as a kind of interpretation of unemployment benefits, the fate of the whole world.
    1. Mainbeam
      Mainbeam 28 September 2019 07: 46 New
      +3
      Well, be surprised at the achievements of the Koreans. And special unemployment is not visible there

      I support. The unemployment rate is 3-4 %%. You can also give an example of India: it was fashionable to be a doctor - all Indians became doctors, now fashionable programmers - all Indians are programmers. Ie a person adapts; adapt to robots (with the exception of older people who already live up to 100 years)

      Robots are considered to be Uzbeks.

      Now it’s cheaper to hire Uzbeks to dig the land for the foundation of a private house than to drive an excavator. But it can be attributed to the “social” bias of our most just state in the world.

      Basic income - as a kind of interpretation of unemployment benefits, the fate of the whole world.

      It is in transition (100 years of life of the older generation)until the brain firmware changes (the brain is formed up to 25 years old, and then lives according to stereotypes, hence the saying: "at 20 years of no mind, at 30 there will be no more") on an individual's individual orientation to his strengths.

      [media=<iframe src="https://vk.com/video_ext.php?oid=-53605513&id=456239710&hash=9f15087f4a2c42f0" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>]
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 28 September 2019 08: 23 New
        +2
        Quote: MainBeam
        Now it’s cheaper to hire Uzbeks,

        I don’t agree ... the Uzbek is now expensive.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 September 2019 11: 52 New
        0
        After 100 years, people, like robots, will be needed on other planets of the solar system, for mining and landscaping the planets themselves. There is work for everyone.
        1. tracer
          tracer 28 September 2019 20: 04 New
          -2
          Do you take psychotropic drugs? Your right. But under their influence, do not write any nonsense.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 September 2019 11: 49 New
      0
      “The result is an absolutely non-competitive industry.” Which industry exactly - I doubt very much that in: Rosatom, KRET, SWABE, Angstrem, Roselectronics, Rostselmash, Uralmash and many others - the Uzbeks work.
      1. at84432384
        at84432384 28 September 2019 19: 59 New
        -2
        Vadim, Angstrom went bankrupt this year. They gave a defense order and went bankrupt. And the Uzbeks, of course, were not there. Even the janitors.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 28 September 2019 20: 01 New
          -2
          Quote: at84432384
          Angstrom went bankrupt this year. Gave a defense order and go bankrupt

          And last year Kalashnikov went bankrupt ... so what?

          Thorough, uncle ... Thorough yes
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 28 September 2019 21: 32 New
          0
          “Angstrom went bankrupt this year” - Probably in a parallel universe.
          1. Beringovsky
            Beringovsky 29 September 2019 03: 37 New
            0
            Vadim, can you tell me the products of the above-mentioned enterprises that are “in demand” and “competitive” in the world market? Well, except for the C400 and even the little things ...
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 30 September 2019 18: 17 New
              0
              Go to their websites and you will see what products they produce and where they deliver - and C 400 is produced by Almaz Antey, in that I have listed it not.
    3. Harry.km
      Harry.km 29 September 2019 02: 35 New
      -1
      Quote: Lexus
      Robots are considered to be Uzbeks.

      Even the Fedor manipulator is considered a robot
  11. Sergey M. Karasev
    Sergey M. Karasev 28 September 2019 07: 34 New
    +2
    As a result, after some time 100 people will continue to work at the first plant, and no one will work at the second plant, since it will go bankrupt. Here is a good example of an alternative to robotics.

    Not so tragic. It’s just that the 2 factory will produce the exclusive “milk for the rich”, “made with the soul, with lively and warm human hands”. It is only necessary to conduct a serious campaign in the media with the participation of “academics” and “doctors” from those who feed on REN-TV, who will prove that milk spilled on the robotic line is “incorrect milk with disturbed ultra-thin biofields”, the use of which is by all means will lead to a surge in oncology and hereditary mutations. The technology of such scarecrows has long been developed.
    You can still put pressure on prestige. Like, since you drink milk, spilled by hand, then you are already different from cattle and plebeians who drink milk, packed with robots.
    you just imagine the enormous amount of energy spent on the production of these robots and then its costs when working with robotic enterprises. And is this with the progressive schizophrenic fashion of renewable clean energy? Sufficient only for mentally ill under-children to come forward with tantrums at the UN.

    And greenfinches can be involved in this matter.
    In the end, there are still manufacturers of luxury supercars with exorbitant prices (for example, Aston Martin, Rolls-Royce) with completely manual production, where even body panels are tapped with mallet and not stamped on the press. And the lion's share of their super price is the cost of manual labor. Nevertheless, these firms exist and do not plan to go bankrupt.
    1. Sergey M. Karasev
      Sergey M. Karasev 28 September 2019 07: 47 New
      0
      I forgot the conclusion: traditional non-robotized production will still retain some market share.
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 28 September 2019 08: 24 New
        0
        Excuse me, are greenfinch mushrooms?
        1. novel66
          novel66 28 September 2019 15: 31 New
          +1
          young chernushki so call
        2. Sergey M. Karasev
          Sergey M. Karasev 28 September 2019 15: 34 New
          0
          These are "green", in other words, ecology fans.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 28 September 2019 08: 41 New
      +3
      . And the lion's share of their super price is the cost of manual labor. Nevertheless, these firms exist and do not plan to go bankrupt.


      This is a survivor's mistake. They survived because there is enough market capacity. Others did not survive.

      That is, 1000 dairies that did not invest in robolinia will die. What kind of Sterligov (and similar ones) will remain with manual labor and the power of the earth invested in each bottle. But only a dozen or two dairies can survive this way.
      1. Sergey M. Karasev
        Sergey M. Karasev 28 September 2019 15: 47 New
        0
        So I say that they will retain only part of the market, but they will.
        On the other hand, if the same Aston-Martin now starts to stamp its cars on a robotic conveyor, it will lose its existing customers, but will not acquire new ones, because the market for mass vehicles of even the highest price category has already been divided. And serious credit money was invested in the re-equipment and expansion of the plant. The company is unable to repay loans and ... it is bankrupt! crying
  12. Boris55
    Boris55 28 September 2019 07: 37 New
    +11
    Quote: A. Mitrofanov
    Robotization of industry: the threat of unemployment or the foundation of the economy of the future?

    The threat of unemployment?
    This is if we argue in the paradigm about bourgeois thinking, when a person is just a resource for exploitation.

    The foundation of the economy of the future?
    Undoubtedly this is the basis of the economy of the future. As for unemployment ... With the right approach, when they think about people, and not just about profit at all costs, there can be no unemployment in principle.

    What I mean.
    If earlier 10 people produced 10 parts and received a salary sufficient for biological coexistence and for the purchase of 10 parts, then with robotization one person with robots will produce the same 10 parts. But, if they pay only one salary, then only one part will be sold, and the rest will remain as dead goods in the warehouse, there simply will be no one to buy for, which will lead to the curtailment of production and unemployment.

    Which exit.
    Distribute the responsibilities of one to ten. Reduce working hours to one hour each while maintaining the same salary for each. Reduce retirement time to 35 years. To free women from childcare work until they come of age, and those who have five or more - in general, etc. .. With this approach, there will be no unemployment and there will be someone who will sell the manufactured products.

    ps
    If you think about a person, there are no problems with production robotization. The problem is only in the crazy heads of bourgeois, whose brain is covered with green mold from the top of the head to the tailbone.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 28 September 2019 08: 54 New
      +6
      Well, in general, this is the most difficult problem for the global economy.

      Already have megafab concepts with 80 + robots. At the same time, such plants need unskilled and cheap personnel (in those areas where robotics are more expensive - basic salary payments), factory complex operators and several response teams (to fix problems).

      10 years will pass and such megafabs will begin to be built in large numbers. And from them will go products with a significant margin in reducing prices, even quality, excellent performance. What to do with hundreds of thousands of factory workers?

      In years through 40-50 there will be a general robotics of the economy. And then already or the whole country will go to the level of Mali / Congo or 30-40mln will have to be kicked out.

      And the salary will not save. That is, what Danone will pour yogurt on 10 cents a jar = a domestic factory on 60 cents / a robot factory, too, because he needs to feed the non-working staff = or in Russia the minimum price will be set (that is, Danone will also be on 60 cents) or no one in Russia will not buy = however, then there will be social tension on the topic - why in Europe 6 times cheaper?

      From the useful - the creative professions will die out last. But this is still 100. However, they will die out quickly. For the choice between which Malakhov and RoboFedor - who knows 100 languages, accurately assesses the psychological state, can support a heated expert discussion on the topic of quantum mechanics, social problems, the football championship, the state of agriculture, raining numbers on the case. Obvious and not in favor of Malakhov.

      As for exits - perhaps a non-slave system? wink Only with robots instead of slaves. How many robots you have = how much money you have and get the result.
      1. SOVIET UNION 2
        SOVIET UNION 2 29 September 2019 03: 48 New
        +1
        I doubt the general robot. How will a robot replace a bricklayer, a tiler, a roofer, a plumber? Will the robot install taps and toilets? What about car repair? On the conveyor course will replace. The work is monotonous. Will he replace the hairdresser? A nurse or surgeon? The robot will be able to replace the manual. But it will not be able to work anywhere.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 29 September 2019 08: 09 New
          -1
          Even with the current development of AI - through xnumx years easy. Moreover, each tile will receive the same amount of solution, ideally distributed, during laying it will be aligned on all planes with a laser level and pressed evenly by pressing it on the entire surface. There is emphasis even now in a cheap and transportable platform and the AI ​​itself which will adapt to the situation as part of its instructions.

          Surgeons are already trying to replace if that. After 50 years for sure. This will give fundamentally new opportunities for, the clarity of movements, accessibility to any point, as well as the minimum amount of damage to the incisions (even less than with laparoscopy).

          It will be more difficult to replace multi-component work in the later stages. However, in principle, while definitely not solvable only questions related to the features of creativity look - that is, composers, artists, designers / architects (not prom, but to make it beautiful).

          And in the post above, through 40-50 years, I wrote mainly about the fact that factory workers, factory workers, collective farmers will have to be kicked out (in the west they are already being kicked out - the same automatic harvesters = other mobile equipment that does not thump, does not pass / spoil the culture, 24 / 7 works and requires only a bogey) to the street or the economy will be at the level of advancement like DR Congo or Mali.
          1. Town Hall
            Town Hall 29 September 2019 08: 22 New
            +1
            Quote: donavi49
            Even with the current development of AI - in 50 years it’s easy

            Reduce the ardor. As the autopilot did not squeeze the pilot out of the cockpit, the same way the robot does not squeeze the surgeon out of the operating room. Exactly for the same reasons. There will always be a symbiosis from the person and the car. Moreover, the "final word" will be up to the person.
            As for the tiles ... You vaguely imagine the process. For the time it takes for the installer of all this robotics to install a "robot", give introductory, program it for a specific job, arrange all the necessary materials in strictly designated places so that the robot "finds" them and correctly prepared and another 100500 details — a good tiler will entu lay the very tile with his hands without steaming and will already drink his coffee by that time)
            1. donavi49
              donavi49 29 September 2019 08: 55 New
              0
              I have indicated 50 years. wink If you are taught to adapt to conditions, divide into sections and work already according to the adapted algorithm, then why not. We put the work in a conditional toilet. It scans the space = the program makes a grid with the calculation of the alignment of the wall. And the work went. This is not today. This is not in ten years. But why not through 50?

              Today it is an emphasis in the brain (so that it adapts itself to the environment and modifies the program) and a cheap platform to put your hand in, roughly speaking, power it up, and then fold it and take it to the next object. Here's how to solve it. Tilers will be hard.

              Well, as for surgeons and pilots, this is more emphasis in the fear of giving lives - to silicon brains (plus their certain limitation in non-standard situations). However, for example, unmanned subway electric trains already go. And there aren’t any accidents there. Unlike the managed ones, where almost every couple of months, someone misses a traffic light, signal, violates the speed limit and broadcasts the composition.
              1. Town Hall
                Town Hall 29 September 2019 09: 27 New
                +1
                After 50 years, there may be no tiles)
                An unmanned subway is the simplest situation. There are two rails that you cannot stray from and the simplest action algorithm. By the way, unmanned ones are only in the sense that the driver is not physically in the cab. But there is an operator at the station who monitors the train on the monitor and intervenes if necessary. No AI, just remote human control.
      2. region58
        region58 29 September 2019 23: 35 New
        0
        Quote: donavi49
        For the choice between which Malakhov and RoboFedor ... ... is obvious and not in favor of Malakhov.

        If only robots of intrigue begin to weave ... and share the inheritance ... yes
        PS Maybe they will start to figure out who of which "robot" from which details they mastered - then in general the carcasses of light ... wassat
    2. depressant
      depressant 28 September 2019 13: 59 New
      +3
      Boris 55, you are wrong! laughing
      According to the law of M. Ringelman, out of 10 people, as before, one will do the work, and 9 people will not even pretend that they are doing it - they will stick around. So to distribute the work that one can do on ten will not work - a hard worker will quickly get tired of it. And why should the capitalist instead of one need to keep ten?
      Of course, I understand what you mean. Break the work into ten small operations and assign one worker to each, so that everyone does his operation from the beginning of the shift until its completion. This is called a sweatshop system, known since the century before last as a conveyor. Sins a lot of the shortcomings already mentioned in the discussion (the human factor), and therefore is replaced by robots or even one.
      Until recently, the sweatshop system was in full swing at foreign factories in China. There were a lot of articles on this topic: the workers could not stand it and committed suicide. So it was or wasn’t, but the Chinese realized it, started robotics at least in their own enterprises, and also started to trade robots. They sell everything that turns out to be produced.
      1. at84432384
        at84432384 28 September 2019 20: 32 New
        0
        Yes, you forget about the "capitalist". Capitalism ended right before our eyes. Even Putin talked about (and he is a very cautious person, to say the least), then Trump and Macron. What capitalism can there be without expanded reproduction and credit ?! Now there are already negative credit rates for the euro, the yen ... The credit and monetary system of capitalism, which has been built for centuries, is collapsing. There will be no new markets. It's time to move on to understanding other economic models where there is no longer the concept of "capital". Marx was absolutely right that capitalism itself would kill itself. But not by the fact that the class of the proletariat reproduces, but by the fact that the digital technologies so necessary for it completely kill the loan interest, which is the very essence of capitalism.
        1. Arturov
          Arturov 28 September 2019 22: 39 New
          0
          Quote: at84432384
          But not by the fact that the class of the proletariat reproduces, but by the fact that the digital technologies so necessary for it completely kill the loan interest, which is the very essence of capitalism.

          what is killing? what kind of nonsense, who needs it and why ?? to the banks? So they have long been transformed into conglomerates with a diversified portfolio of investments.
      2. Boris55
        Boris55 29 September 2019 07: 41 New
        0
        Quote: depressant
        so to distribute the work that one can do, for ten does not work ... Break the work into ten small operations and put on each one worker

        If 10 will work only on 1 hours, then it turns out that one seems to work 10 hours.

        Quote: depressant
        And why should the capitalist instead of one need to keep ten?

        That would be someone to buy its products. If 9 of 10 does not work, then they will not have the means and the products will flood the warehouses, as a result of which the capitalist will go bankrupt and they and the employee will join the ranks of the unemployed.

        ps
        Scientists thought that for everyone on Earth to live at the level of an average European, it is enough for each of us to work 25 minutes a day.
  13. Svarog
    Svarog 28 September 2019 07: 53 New
    +1
    And finally, at a certain stage of industrial robotization, the principle of basic unconditional income can be realized, guaranteeing citizens a certain minimum amount of earnings, providing an initial standard of living. In the future, it can be increased due to the implementation of social work, public service or commercial activities. It sounds fantastic, almost like communism,


    Here is an excellent, high-quality article, but first socialism, then the universal introduction of robotics, otherwise death is more or less different. We are not Sweden and liberal niches, we haven’t ate enough money for 20 years, beggars will be paid for this, so the population will die out .. and I’m sure that today's economic team will do something significant in the development of this direction ..
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 September 2019 12: 03 New
      +2
      We are not Sweden, we are Russia - in which greed, envy and nonsense are paramount, with this we should not expect any kind of socialism, or even hope for it.
  14. Karabas
    Karabas 28 September 2019 08: 21 New
    +2
    Several enterprises produce the so-called Cartesian robots and delta robots. Both of them can perform some tasks in certain areas of industry, but they will not become a full-fledged replacement for six or more axial robots.

    Delta robots are the fastest robots, i.e. one such can replace a dozen conventional ones in some operations. So it's not about full value.
    About the cost. Just looked at the prices of fanuk. The smallest - a hand of 6 axes, up to 7kg load, a new $ 1000. I think the same second-hand Chinese will be for $ 100, which is already very interesting.
    At this cost, you can find a new application for the robot, for example in the office. Attach a tongue to him - goes to the captain, he immediately licks. laughing
    1. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse 28 September 2019 21: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: Karabas
      About the cost. Just looked at the prices of fanuk. The smallest - a hand of 6 axes, up to 7kg load, a new $ 1000. I think the same second-hand Chinese will be for $ 100, which is already very interesting.

      You think badly. $ 1000 once or $ 100 every month. Since what month is the robot more interesting?

      Well, a separate question for suckers - where are you boss, hope to find a Chinese for $ 100 a month? The Chinese average zp twice as high as the Russians today. Moreover, even Russians, for less than $ 300, are already rebelling .. Well, so once again count the payback of a robot for $ 1000 in relation to the price of the cheapest Russian ..
      1. Karabas
        Karabas 29 September 2019 02: 53 New
        0
        First, I do not need to poke.
        Secondly write nonsense.
  15. bar
    bar 28 September 2019 08: 41 New
    +4
    In Russia, with the income level of its population, robotization will not threaten soon. Example - at the VAZ even in Soviet times, robotic production was being introduced with might and main. In particular, body welding lines were fully robotic. After the arrival of the French, “optimization” of costs began, the result of which was the replacement of the Kuka robot fleet with “biorobots”. Now the “fleet of robots" is surrounded by a red ribbon and gathering dust, and the bodies of Logans / Largus, etc., are hand-cooked by ordinary Russian hard workers who came from the surrounding villages and work for a penny. At the same time, the French developed a system of labor stimulation, according to which, in order to have a salary of at least 30 thousand, you have to work every day for one and a half shifts, including weekends and not go to sick leave. Thus, biorobots for the use of working time are practically not inferior to iron robots, but the enterprise is much cheaper.
    1. Barmaleyka
      Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 09: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: bar
      In Russia, with the income level of its population, robotization will not threaten soon.

      soon, especially at the countryside
      1. bar
        bar 28 September 2019 09: 48 New
        -1
        I wrote that in our area the entire "countryside" works with biorobots at the VAZ. And the replacement with iron robots does not threaten them. If you are hinting at robotic tractors that will work on the vast expanses of Russian fields, then this is also unlikely. Vast expanses remained in Kazakhstan, and small farms in central Russia are unlikely to pull robots, local villagers are again cheaper (see above). The only use of "robots", or rather, "artificial intelligence" - the work of office hamsters. The same Gref is successfully doing this, and has already “optimized” a bunch of accounting posts in his savings bank.
        1. Barmaleyka
          Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 10: 06 New
          0
          Quote: bar
          biorobots at the VAZ

          VAZ robots, what's next, except that VAZ is not everywhere
          1. bar
            bar 28 September 2019 13: 12 New
            -1
            I cited the VAZ as an example of replacing robots with biorobots, if you do not understand. As an example of the unprofitability of robots in our country with existing salary levels. China has long overtaken us in this indicator.
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 28 September 2019 13: 24 New
              -6
              Quote: bar
              I cited the VAZ as an example of replacing robots with biorobots, if you do not understand. As an example of the unprofitability of robots in our country with existing salary levels. China has long overtaken us in this indicator.

              In China, there are tuyeva heaps of rural residents ... who are not included in statistics on salaries - retirement ages and other things. And from them you can easily do the same "biorobots".

              It’s just that the ruling “party” in China (mostly non-poor guys, og) understands that now, without the accelerated introduction of advanced technologies, China will again go to the place where it was for millennia ... that's the whole song, buddy laughing
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 28 September 2019 14: 01 New
                  -3
                  Quote: bar
                  our rural residents just do not enter our statistikupu salaries and other

                  Lies...

                  Quote: bar
                  in China, we will increase industrial production, and the number of biorobots that are beginning to be included in statistics is constantly growing

                  It will continue to grow for a long time. In China, a lot of people ... unaccounted for.

                  Who counts them there? laughing
                  1. bar
                    bar 28 September 2019 14: 08 New
                    -2
                    our rural residents are also not included in our statistics on salaries and other things
                    Lies...

                    Well, you were not only in China, but also in the Russian village ...
                    1. Cat man null
                      Cat man null 28 September 2019 15: 00 New
                      -5
                      Quote: bar
                      you were not only in China, but also in the Russian village ...

                      Forest, field, and peat bog. I get it? wink
                    2. Barmaleyka
                      Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 17: 29 New
                      0
                      Quote: bar
                      Well, you were not only in China, but also in the Russian village ...

                      I live here in the village
        2. Barmaleyka
          Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 10: 07 New
          0
          Quote: bar
          and small farms in central Russia are unlikely to pull robots

          small farmers will not occupy the whole population with work, this is a tiny percentage
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 28 September 2019 12: 08 New
            -2
            This means that small firms will become more and more in the process of robotization of large factories - but this will not be soon.
            1. Barmaleyka
              Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 13: 18 New
              0
              Quote: Vadim237
              So there will be more small firms

              will not, they are not needed in such quantity
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 28 September 2019 17: 30 New
                0
                "No, they are not needed in such quantity" - Why?
                1. Barmaleyka
                  Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 17: 38 New
                  0
                  a small producer is expensive quality things (it doesn’t matter if they are worn or sitting on them) it is not designed for the mass consumer
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 28 September 2019 21: 38 New
                    -2
                    Are you really expensive? - I must say to the producers of frames and hives for bees that just 5 people work there - that they are suckers and they will not have a mass consumer with the current sale of more than 1000 hives per year.
                    1. Barmaleyka
                      Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 21: 49 New
                      0
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      Are you really expensive?

                      true
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      5 bee producers work there for bee frames and beehives

                      don't bullshit the hive collected in a factory way and the hive collected in a small workshop as a minimum differ by 1.5-2 times the price, I keep the apiary so that it’s not necessary to smack the garbage
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 30 September 2019 18: 18 New
                        -1
                        But I don’t give a damn at all - the guys have a good profit, already like the sixth year in a row.
                      2. Barmaleyka
                        Barmaleyka 30 September 2019 22: 57 New
                        -1
                        Once again, they do not collect in the manual street do not make a fuss
                      3. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 5 October 2019 17: 34 New
                        -2
                        And with what they collect beehives there if not by hand - with robots, go to Durkee.
                      4. Barmaleyka
                        Barmaleyka 7 October 2019 20: 45 New
                        0
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        And with what they collect beehives there if not by hand - with robots, go to Durkee.

                        for starters, you would have looked near the udik, and only after urunden
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 28 September 2019 12: 06 New
    -1
    And with all this, AvtoVAZ began to show profit - it did not work with robots because the products were backward from time to time - 30 years have passed since the collapse of the USSR.
  • Avior
    Avior 28 September 2019 08: 44 New
    +2
    Robot control algorithms are increasingly adaptive, which means that their scope will expand.

    As for the person, he will need to look for his niches in the labor market, with a high proportion of manual labor, or intellectual labor.
    1. Barmaleyka
      Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 09: 12 New
      0
      Quote: Avior
      or intellectual labor.

      the problem is that the population is growing and the issue of employment during automation will be more acute
      1. Avior
        Avior 28 September 2019 09: 17 New
        +3
        Not sure.
        All kinds of social payments will increase, the working day and retirement age will be reduced, taxes on people will be lowered, robots will be introduced, the price of handicraft items will go up against the backdrop of the dominance of machine goods, etc.
        1. Barmaleyka
          Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 10: 03 New
          -2
          Quote: Avior
          Any social payments will increase

          Quote: Avior
          reduce taxes on people

          already start laughing ?!
      2. bar
        bar 28 September 2019 09: 50 New
        -3
        the problem is that the population is growing

        You are about the global population or about Russian realities
        1. Barmaleyka
          Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 10: 04 New
          -1
          Quote: bar
          You are about the global population or about Russian realities
          about everything
          1. bar
            bar 28 September 2019 13: 06 New
            -3
            You probably are worried about God. And I somehow worry more about my country
            1. Barmaleyka
              Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 13: 20 New
              -1
              Believe me, if there are GLOBAL problems, then it will be fun for us when the "Gods" reach us
              1. bar
                bar 28 September 2019 13: 31 New
                0
                They won’t reach us, we don’t have freebies.
                1. Barmaleyka
                  Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 13: 57 New
                  0
                  Quote: bar
                  They won’t reach us, we don’t have freebies.

                  Yes exactly?!
                  1. bar
                    bar 28 September 2019 14: 06 New
                    -4
                    These came not for free, but for work.
                    You are a global person. Weak to post the same picture in European realities, where are the former residents of Honduras with shovels and brooms for example in Germany? And then more than trolling your messages do not pull.
                    1. Barmaleyka
                      Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 14: 50 New
                      -2
                      Quote: bar
                      de former residents of Honduras with shovels and brooms for example in Germany?

                      Do you need Hondurans with shovels? !!!
  • Brigadier
    Brigadier 28 September 2019 08: 58 New
    +4
    Have you forgotten about the Luddite uprising in England?

  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 09: 11 New
    +1
    As a result, after some time, 100 people will still work at the first plant, and no one will work at the second plant, since it will go bankrupt. Here is a good example of an alternative to robotics
    there is a certain share of guile in this
    one simple question arises: why does the plant produce milk? !!!
    probably for what they would buy it, because if they don’t buy it ....
    and now let's look at it from the other side 1000 people worked, after installation work became 100, 900 were left without work, the market shrank by 90%, as a result, sales fell, so think the author
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 28 September 2019 09: 19 New
      +1
      The first industrial revolution. The artel worked in 500 people. They brought a steam engine, powered the machine, drove out all the 500 people - scored new 150, began to produce significantly more products than previously 500 people.

      I. Everything worked. Russia also slowed down, and then rushed to catch up, caught up only under Stalin and his extraordinary methods. Why repeat again?
      1. Barmaleyka
        Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 10: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: donavi49
        they brought a steam engine, powered the machine, drove out all 500 people - scored new 150

        do not specify how many deaths it cost in Europe, moreover, the conversation is not about 500-150, but about 1000-2
        998 what they will do, and the total population in the 18-19 century is somewhat different
    2. bar
      bar 28 September 2019 13: 47 New
      -1
      Quote: Barmaleyka
      after installation, work became 100, 900 were left without work, the market contracted by 90%, as a result, sales fell

      Manufacturers, unlike you, do not think so globally. They need to reduce production costs here and now in order to get more profit. Global problems worry them little. It is like a cancerous tumor that devours an organism. And she doesn’t give a damn that she will die later with this organism.
      1. wooja
        wooja 28 September 2019 21: 51 New
        0
        globalization is a fetish .... and a scam, in the USSR there were big problems with robotics, but their essence in one word-- sawed ... labor productivity is also a very conditional concept .... and it’s not necessary to make a cult out of it ..., profit comes from selling, not production ....
        1. bar
          bar 29 September 2019 08: 14 New
          0
          Firstly, the conversation is not about the USSR, but about modern capitalism. Secondly, the cult is not made from labor productivity, but from profit. And yes, selling brings profit. But, under other equal conditions, the lower the cost, the higher the profit on this sale. So everything is interconnected.
  • Loess
    Loess 28 September 2019 09: 25 New
    +1
    Author, thanks for the article!
  • Avior
    Avior 28 September 2019 09: 26 New
    +6
    Okay, robots are losing their jobs.
    Guys, the problem is more serious.
    It caught my eye from some kind of exhibition as a robot hugs a girl!

    Okay, while he is just hugging, what if the design is changed and the program? What then? Us generally side?
    It is necessary to stop these pieces of iron before they go too far!
    smile
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 September 2019 12: 13 New
      +1
      No stop a little more and the terminator will be a given
      1. Avior
        Avior 28 September 2019 13: 58 New
        0
        Regarding specifically this people are interested, why all the tricks without strangers?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 28 September 2019 17: 33 New
          +1
          Because the guys have gone far ahead in robotics.
          1. Avior
            Avior 28 September 2019 20: 23 New
            0
            No, the question is raised on the network why there are no video tricks of this robot with outside viewers. What to exclude the possibility of video editing
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 28 September 2019 21: 40 New
              -1
              There is no installation - the guys checked.
              1. Avior
                Avior 28 September 2019 23: 52 New
                0
                Well, not installation, something else.
                I also like the development of control algorithms for this device, and I understand both the complexity of the algorithm itself and its hardware implementation, although the speed of the drives is a bit confusing.
                But somehow I got a question on the network that I voiced, and I have not yet found a video of it with strangers. It would be interesting to see to remove questions.
            2. Arturov
              Arturov 28 September 2019 22: 45 New
              +1
              Quote: Avior
              No, the question is raised on the network why there are no video tricks of this robot with outside viewers. What to exclude the possibility of video editing

              he did the same at exhibitions, so your hopes for installation are unrealizable laughing
              1. Avior
                Avior 28 September 2019 23: 31 New
                0
                I did not write anything about any hopes. Can you give a link to the video?
                1. region58
                  region58 30 September 2019 00: 02 New
                  0
                  Quote: Avior
                  Video link

                  Presentation. At the same time, and a mistake.

                  Here are some more.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 30 September 2019 07: 34 New
                    0
                    Do you see the difference in freedom of movement and their complexity between the robot at the presentation with outsiders and the parkour that is in other videos shot without outsiders, for example, in the second?
                    That's because of this, the question was raised on the network - can he really really do all this?
                    1. region58
                      region58 30 September 2019 08: 31 New
                      0
                      Quote: Avior
                      the difference in freedom of movement and their complexity

                      Oh, you mean it. I didn’t understand right away ... Well, as time goes on, there are shots where he is on the track, with external power, and he really can’t walk - he stumbles. And, I think, in the case of parkour, they chose the most “watchable” attempt. And as for doubts ... For anyone they will ... Create, based on machine vision, a spatial picture of the outside world (especially changing), and determine your position there in real time ... that is another task. The main doubt is that he actually “sees” and “self-identifies”, or stupidly according to the program — two steps forward, sit down, stretch out his arms, and so on ... But here is a four-legged one with a “hand”, it seems to be where it’s creeping around the construction site, which is controlling it there ... It seems so far without incident ... Unfortunately, so far only the video has to be watched.
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 30 September 2019 09: 41 New
                        0
                        There is, for example, a problem - you can change the control program, put faster processors.
                        But here the power, and therefore the speed, and especially the acceleration of the robot drives, is not so easy to replace.
                        And visually it is clear that the drive at the presentation is much slower than in commercials without strangers.
  • Greg Miller
    Greg Miller 28 September 2019 09: 29 New
    +4
    The use of robotic systems in industry is effective only in conditions of mass production. For reconfiguration of the robot takes a lot of time and money ...
    1. bar
      bar 28 September 2019 13: 41 New
      0
      Reconfiguration of automatic lines takes up a lot of time and money. The robot just changes the control program. And robots are used exactly where the manufactured product can change. For example, in the automotive industry, welding robots easily cook bodies of different models without any reconfiguration. As for mass production, I agree. A robot is not cheap, and it should pay off. With small-piece production, this will not happen.
      1. Greg Miller
        Greg Miller 28 September 2019 15: 58 New
        +2
        I don’t agree with you all ... Equipment, for a new type of product, on a robotic complex also needs to be changed, and after the change it’s necessary to “tie” it back to EVERY robot ... and all this takes a huge amount of man-hours ...
        1. bar
          bar 28 September 2019 16: 04 New
          +1
          The meaning of the use of robots in _ parallel_ production of several types of products on the same production line without readjustment. And it is in mass production.
          And the launch of each new type of product is a separate song.
  • comradChe
    comradChe 28 September 2019 09: 55 New
    0
    The author is not as stupid as he wants to show it. Propaganda is pro-government.
  • Million
    Million 28 September 2019 09: 55 New
    +3
    It turns out that there will be many "extra" people in the world, especially older people, who are not needed by employers. Moreover, in today's Russia
    1. Barmaleyka
      Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 10: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: Million
      there will be many "extra" people, especially older people, that employers don’t need.

      it was already in history - FENCING then extra was simply caught and hung
      1. Million
        Million 28 September 2019 11: 20 New
        +1
        You don’t have to hang now. With our medicine, ecology and foodstuff you yourself will not live long
  • dgonni
    dgonni 28 September 2019 10: 42 New
    +3
    Explanatory article! The author has not yet mentioned the presence in the same Japan and East Asia of factories that are fully robotic and do not require lighting, as well as in some cases maintaining the temperature regime.
    With regards to milk, in order for milk to be packaged, it should be. That bish needs a herd of dairy and the worker who extends it. Many remember the union. How many milkmaids and other attendants were on the dairy herd of 700 and what were the milkings? Right now, Danes are working nearby for 15 km. 700 dairy herds 350 young animals. In total, 22 people work with superiors. The average milk yield per head is 7500. But the Danes are unhappy they say there should be a minimum of 9000; the average salary of a milkmaid or machine operator is 600 euros.
    This is what I am for! The number of jobs in agriculture has reduced new equipment has greatly increased labor productivity. Although in shytsii robots are already milking cows. True milking less than when serviced by a person.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 September 2019 12: 17 New
      +1
      Already tractor robotic appeared.
  • alstr
    alstr 28 September 2019 11: 02 New
    +3
    In fact, everything is simple with robots:
    The basis for the use of robots is the demand for their products. At the same time, demand should go to tens, if not hundreds of thousands of units of manufactured products per unit of the robot's lifetime.
    Those. it's all about economics. Moreover, the salary fund in this case plays a lesser role.
    Will explain:.
    Two factors play here:
    - The cost of the robot itself
    - The cost of its maintenance (repair, commissioning, maintenance, salary staff)

    And if this cost is comparable with the salaries of workers, then yes - the robot will be used.

    There are a few exceptions, but the scheme also works there, but in combination with other factors.

    For the situation in Russia I will retell one story:
    In the early 2000s, one entrepreneur decided to replace a female worker in a paint shop with a robotic paint line. Moreover, from good intentions about the health of employees.
    Bought, installed. Started to work.
    But after a couple of years I abandoned this idea, because keeping employees was cheaper than buying a robot and servicing it.
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 11: 02 New
    +1
    proclaim the era of socialism and working people. In this case, the whole country will become unprofitable, for some time it will still move forward, but much more slowly than competing countries
    rare bullshit, and aptor is aware that ALL social guarantees in the world of capital appeared thanks to socialism in our country
    Yes, and automation in the USSR was enough, it was just considered ROI NORMALLY who didn’t lay golden parachutes for the parasite-managers and the real production sector prevailed, nor did anyone make the equipment so that in a year it would have to be changed
    1. at84432384
      at84432384 28 September 2019 20: 48 New
      0
      In the "unprofitable" USSR, all commuter trains were cost-effective. In the "market" of the Russian Federation-it is completely unprofitable. At the same time, all enterprises (starting from the middle one) had kindergartens, pioneer camps and other social networks on their balance sheets. It all comes down to how to calculate profitability. All of today's Gazprom in Soviet times was housed in a typical 2-story school building. Now it is the largest skyscraper in Europe. But according to the author, this is a breakthrough in competitiveness. Some schizophrenia ...
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 28 September 2019 20: 52 New
        -2
        Quote: at84432384
        In the "unprofitable" USSR, all commuter trains were cost-effective

        Yah? And justify?

        Quote: at84432384
        It all comes down to how to count profitability

        Well, well, buddy ... so tell me - but how can it be counted correctly?

        You know exactly how yes laughing
        1. Barmaleyka
          Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 21: 52 New
          0
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          Well, well, buddy ... so tell me - but how can it be counted correctly?

          it was considered just normal profitability in the USSR 5-10%
          since everything was in the hands of the state, it was not a separate profit for the enterprise that was considered, but the system as a whole, it was profitable to sell the children's assortment at a loss because they were playing on the other, it was profitable to build small workshops in Asia with a profitability of 0-5-1% but not have hemorrhoids with mass migration, etc. etc.
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 28 September 2019 22: 08 New
            -1
            Quote: Barmaleyka
            Barmaleyka

            1. Barmaleyka
              Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 22: 12 New
              -1
              and what is it for ?!
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 28 September 2019 23: 22 New
                -2
                Quote: Barmaleyka
                and what is it for ?!

                This is to the fact that "do not go where they do not ask."

                Available? wink
                1. Barmaleyka
                  Barmaleyka 29 September 2019 08: 07 New
                  0
                  old man yes you boor
                  available?

                  you want that would not "climbed" argue in PM, and if you got out into the general forum do not be indignant
      2. region58
        region58 30 September 2019 00: 13 New
        0
        Quote: at84432384
        Some schizophrenia ...

        Uh-huh. yes There was no pension fund, but pensions were ... what
  • Galleon
    Galleon 28 September 2019 11: 18 New
    +1
    I thank the author for a very competent coverage of the topic of industry robotics. From the article it is well understood that this process is inevitable and even mandatory in order to maintain competitiveness.
    I would like to add that serious robotization is difficult for our country because it is a capital-intensive business and the current prohibitive interest rate on a loan will make the lender an “eternal” bank debtor. As an example, the recent "joke" - the president complained that all the profits of the military-industrial complex are consumed by loan payments, after which Siluanov was called to Sochi himself to the carpet. In addition, robotics are cost-effective when massive production, and where do we see mass production? Large orders? MIC? Shipbuilding or automotive? Perhaps, the author’s example of a dairy factory is not accidental. You can be sure that our food products are mass-produced and toilet paper. I saw myself robots collecting pallets with boxes of beer: 1 line of robots, 2 lines of Tajiks.
    1. UserGun
      UserGun 28 September 2019 12: 29 New
      0
      Quote: Galleon
      I would like to add that serious robotization is difficult for our country because it is a capital-intensive business and the current prohibitive interest rate on a loan will make the lender an “eternal” bank debtor.


      Not only. There are still a bunch of small and big obstacles. We need people serving and supporting the work of robotic industries and competent people, and not Uncle Vasya from garages, with a salary as if in non-rubber, at least, but not with the one that they give with a view not to die of hunger. In fact, it is necessary to change the entire current economy, together with its leader, in order for everything to work.
      1. Galleon
        Galleon 28 September 2019 17: 05 New
        0
        Yes, of course, a bunch of obstacles fellow . I did not want to talk too broadly, I wanted to say even less, but in essence with examples.
  • Basarev
    Basarev 28 September 2019 11: 55 New
    +4
    You don’t have to robot industry if there is no industry.
  • Kontrik
    Kontrik 28 September 2019 12: 53 New
    -3
    We in the province of "robotization" is not afraid .. Let Muscovites fear hehe
    And in Russia, huge areas have not yet been developed and many are abandoned ..
    Robots will not help here and therefore we are waiting for the "Muscovites" .. We need "lawyers, financiers, especially managers and marketers" in the taiga.
    We have been waiting for you already and the connecting rod bears, especially hehe hey I don’t scare, God forbid .. We will teach you here to love the Motherland! I’m bored with genes in the metropolis ..
    Remember the romantic song, all that YOU have now is merit of these guys ...

    This is not your mind and the ability to speculate .. Why are you speculating and rowing money .. Here are such Soviet people created. Clearly explained?
    1. Avior
      Avior 28 September 2019 15: 33 New
      +1
      The clip is cut from the movie Theory. Great movie.
    2. at84432384
      at84432384 28 September 2019 21: 03 New
      0
      Wait! I really hope that soon lawyers headed by Dmitry Anatolyevich, economists and bankers headed by Elvira Sakhibzadovna, Anton Germanovich, Anatoly Borisovich will come to you. The list is far from complete. But you try so that they do not freeze from idleness ...
  • then
    then 28 September 2019 13: 01 New
    +2
    The main contradiction of robotization lies in the fact that the exploitation of man brings capitalism to the capitalist. At the same time, the capitalist of the robotic dairy does not exploit one hundred employees (he can even afford to pay them honestly, in full), but a thousand from a neighboring enterprise. That's when the neighboring company goes bankrupt, then its surplus value will come to an end. And in addition there is a social explosion, the uprising of the "weavers".
    1. UserGun
      UserGun 28 September 2019 13: 08 New
      0
      Quote: sedan
      The main contradiction of robotization lies in the fact that the exploitation of man brings capitalism to the capitalist. At the same time, the capitalist of the robotic dairy does not exploit one hundred employees (he can even afford to pay them honestly, in full), but a thousand from a neighboring enterprise. That's when the neighboring company goes bankrupt, then its surplus value will come to an end. And in addition there is a social explosion, the uprising of the "weavers".


      You're wrong. The fact is that robotic production cannot work without a human being. Yes share manual labor there tends to zero, but no one forbids exploiting brainwork. This is the trick, and financial success CAPITALISTIC! Carl, electronics companies in which robotics are at their peak, only confirm this.
      1. Barmaleyka
        Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 13: 41 New
        0
        Quote: UserGun
        This is the trick, but the financial successes of the CAPITALIST!

        and what to do the rest? !!!!
        Well, not everyone is able to work at a computer with them, what will you do ?!
        Ubasute?

        Yes, and about financial success is it you got excited
        1. UserGun
          UserGun 28 September 2019 13: 57 New
          0
          Well, I got excited ... Apple costs much more meat and gas))) $ 1,044 trillion versus pathetic $ 55,8 billion))) Truncated the difference in financial success ?!
          1. Barmaleyka
            Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 14: 51 New
            -3
            Quote: UserGun
            Truncated

            first, don't be rude
            second, but the stub really costs that much ?!
            1. UserGun
              UserGun 28 September 2019 15: 25 New
              -2
              Thirdly, do not confuse the warm with the soft and do not transfer the rails. And how much does a barrel of fuel oil really cost ?! And how much does a liter of gasoline really cost in Russia ?! Therefore, if we talk about robotization, then we say real things, and do not wag our tail like a beaten dog. You will not be able to survive in a world where neighbors live better at times and use robot products with might and main. You do not like it, can not adapt? Welkam to Siberia to the Old Believers (to the Amazon to the Indians, to Africa to the mumbu-yumbu tribes) to live with a torch, to pray. fasting, plowing plows and listening to Radonezh radio)))
              1. Barmaleyka
                Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 15: 44 New
                -1
                Quote: UserGun
                instead of wagging our tail like a beaten dog.

                be rude
                Quote: UserGun
                You will not be able to survive in a world where neighbors live better at times and use robot products with might and main

                the first thing that means at times?
                second, from your point of view, Africa should have died for a long time
                Quote: UserGun
                live with a splinter, pray. fasting, plowing a plow and listening to radio Radonezh

                start thinking and not tearing the vest on your chest, because you may well be on the street among the unnecessary
                1. UserGun
                  UserGun 28 September 2019 16: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: Barmaleyka
                  start thinking and not tearing the vest on your chest, because you may well be on the street among the unnecessary


                  In order to stop communicating with you, since I only had a couple of posts from you about anything and utter blizzard, I’ll say that my work activity, at this point in time, is precisely in servicing and repairing robotic lines, so I’m much more in topic than In this connection, I’ll add that I’m just not going to end up, as you graciously condemned me to the number of unnecessary ones))) I’ll even say more that about 5 years ago I didn’t know which side to approach the machine))) So bye! And do not write more about that which you have no idea from the category of "did not read (did not try, could not, did not study, did not know), but I condemn")))
                  1. Barmaleyka
                    Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 16: 41 New
                    +1
                    Quote: UserGun
                    about which you have no idea

                    what about the basics of economics or production ?!
                    I'm sorry, but you greatly exaggerate your knowledge and conversation is not about a completely different side of the issue - SOCIAL
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 28 September 2019 17: 36 New
          0
          And all the rest will work in the same places as now.
          1. Barmaleyka
            Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 17: 42 New
            0
            on what?
            a simple example was a farm in a village milking cows; the whole village was working; an automated complex was installed; 5 people were working; what should the rest do?
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 28 September 2019 21: 42 New
              -2
              Engage in greenhouse agriculture and work on the second barn, which will be built in connection with the development of milk production.
              1. Barmaleyka
                Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 21: 46 New
                -2
                firstly, the cowshed will not be built, secondly they will take 3 more what to do the rest ?!
                about what to do, to do for the sake of "love of art" no one will but buy from the villagers on an ongoing basis that the same thing produced at the queue
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 30 September 2019 18: 26 New
                  -2
                  “Firstly, the cowshed will not be built” - It will, since production will need to be expanded - now such a cowshed with equipment costs from 150 million rubles per 100 - 120 cows. - Such funds will not be used by all - in the next 15 years in mass introduction there will be no robotics - very expensive and complicated.
                  1. Barmaleyka
                    Barmaleyka 30 September 2019 22: 58 New
                    -1
                    Have you been in a village for a long time?
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 5 October 2019 17: 39 New
                      -1
                      In the villages there are no such cowsheds and will never be, since all the villages will soon disappear.
                      1. Barmaleyka
                        Barmaleyka 7 October 2019 20: 46 New
                        0
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        as all villages will disappear soon.

                        incarnation of a bald corncob ?!
                        wildly buy all the rustic apartments in the city?
    2. Sahalinets
      Sahalinets 28 September 2019 14: 41 New
      -2
      Austrian school economists have long proved Marx's mistake. Surplus value arises only during the sale process! And no matter what pennies you pay to hard workers, if your products are not bought ...
  • Operator
    Operator 28 September 2019 13: 16 New
    0
    "Global robotization and the introduction of basic unconditional income will mean another round of natural selection, when some choose the path of passive degradation, while others use the time that is free for personal growth, training and self-development.", - this round has already begun: the most-rated television programs are talk shows with tons of dirty laundry dumped on the heads of tens of millions of viewers who are completely delighted with this - as they say, "people hawl" (C).
  • then
    then 28 September 2019 13: 17 New
    +2
    Who believes in the self-improvement of a person, raise your hand. For a person to improve himself, it is necessary to force him to study in childhood, provided that the school is a source of knowledge, and not a place of empty pastime.
    1. Barmaleyka
      Barmaleyka 28 September 2019 13: 37 New
      +2
      among other things, the need to improve, and in the absence thereof there will be degradation and ...
  • bar
    bar 28 September 2019 14: 14 New
    -5
    Quote: Vadim237
    And with all this, AvtoVAZ began to show profit - it did not work with robots because the products were backward from time to time

    I would argue with you about backwardness, if only a little understanding of the subject. And I won’t, the cliches of comediclabs and kvn-s about "tazgovno" have been written down for a long time already.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 September 2019 17: 41 New
      0
      "And I won’t, the cliches of comediclabs and kvn-s about" tazgovno "have been written down for a long time." But he really was a shit that brought one loss - sucking tens of billions of rubles from the budget.
      1. bar
        bar 28 September 2019 18: 05 New
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        he really was a shit that brought one loss - sucking tens of billions of rubles from the budget.

        This is the same stamp. Since the launch, VAZ has brought tens of millions of rubles in foreign currency to the USSR (in fact, it was built for this). And after the collapse of the USSR and general privatization, when a lot of enterprises were ruined and closed, he also made a profit, and at least he fully provided for himself. At that time there was money to launch the tenth family, and at the same time the project of viburnum began. And the profit, although small, was also there, and dividends on shares were paid. The “debts” began with the departure of the general director Kadannikov and the arrival of the Moscow managers, who sucked out all the incomes, brought the plant to a halt, pulled out loans for state security to “save”, and then stole those loans, leaving all the debts to the plant. Then they threw this empty suitcase without a handle. They appointed a new director Komarov, he was instructed to conduct "pre-sale training" with the optimization of production and personnel, which he successfully implemented. And then what was left was sold to the French for a penny. Here is such a brief history of the former VAZ. So to speak, first-hand, from a direct participant.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 28 September 2019 21: 46 New
          -2
          "From a direct participant" - It was not your guys who dragged half a billion rubles a year from this plant?
  • bar
    bar 28 September 2019 15: 11 New
    -2
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    Forest, field, and peat bog. I get it?

    More than. You have no argument.
    Drain protected
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 28 September 2019 15: 21 New
      -3
      Quote: bar
      Drain protected

      Shkolota on the march laughing
      1. bar
        bar 28 September 2019 15: 38 New
        +1
        Labels are glued precisely when there is nothing to object. Would be ashamed, with your experience.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 28 September 2019 15: 40 New
          -6
          Quote: bar
          Labels are glued exactly when there is nothing to object

          Exactly.

          Quote: bar
          Drain protected

          You about it, probably? wink
          1. bar
            bar 28 September 2019 15: 43 New
            0
            Who needs it, he understood. And I don’t see the point in continuing the thick trolling. You don’t need arguments, but you’re crushing the mass.
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 28 September 2019 15: 46 New
              -5
              Quote: bar
              You don't need arguments

              I do not see the arguments.
              1. bar
                bar 28 September 2019 15: 56 New
                0
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                I do not see the arguments.

                I don’t see yours either, in fact, this is how it started. Some banal phrases, besides not correlating with reality. What about China, what about our village, what about the industry as a whole, including the VAZ, where I worked for almost 40 years. Somehow you are somehow realities of life. Not a star? Authority crushes?
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 28 September 2019 16: 01 New
                  -2
                  Quote: bar
                  not correlated with reality

                  Not correlated. More thorough.

                  Quote: bar
                  including VAZ, where I worked for almost 40 years

                  You to "Ingvar", which is a plumber. He, like, also worked there.

                  Quote: bar
                  Some commonplace phrases

                  Example, buddy?

                  And what the Chinese do not include statistics from Selyuki is the ABC, sorry ...
                  1. bar
                    bar 28 September 2019 16: 24 New
                    -1
                    [quote] Not correlated. Careful. [/ Quote]
                    Here is another “argument” in the discussion. You still check the commas, sometimes I confuse

                    [quote] You to "Ingvar", who is a plumber. He, like, also worked there. [Quote]
                    For you, working on a vase is an indelible stain for life? It happens. Stamps of comedicabs about “tazgovno” drove into the subcortex for a long time.


                    [quote = bar] Some common phrases
                    Example, buddy? And what the Chinese do not include statistics from Selyuki - this is the ABC, sorry ... [/ quote]
                    The same triviality as the fact that rural residents often do not fall into Russian statistics. You should carefully read the text before rushing to expose.
                    1. Cat man null
                      Cat man null 28 September 2019 18: 55 New
                      -4
                      Quote: bar
                      The same triviality as the fact that rural residents often do not fall into Russian statistics

                      The word "often" spoils the whole phrase ... buddy, the rural areas of China are not included in their statistics at all ... learn angelic or something laughing

                      Quote: bar
                      . You should read the text carefully before rushing to expose

                      Um ... buddy, read the texts (not necessarily in Russian, by the way ... I can also use C-sharpe, for example) - my professional ... what and where I didn’t read it, point by point ... please yes
  • depressant
    depressant 28 September 2019 15: 23 New
    +1
    In fact, it was not our enterprises that took care of the robotics of Russian industry at all, which, having studied the sales market, decided to manufacture robotics, but the Ministry of Industrial Trade took care of it. It was she who discovered that the density of robotization in the country is on average 70 times lower than in the world. The purchase is 500-600 robots per year, and around the world 240 units are bought and, accordingly, sold. So there is room to grow.
    And then, at the initiative of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, in early 2017, a Technet plan was developed for digitalizing Russia, which Medvedev mentioned more than once. I can’t say who developed the plan, but through the purchase of robots it is supposed to increase labor productivity in Russia by 2025% by 30, and by 2035% by 95.
    But everyone, having heard this, for some reason decided that Russia would itself produce robotics. Maybe we’ll produce something, but basically, it will be purchases.
    Indeed, in order to produce robots themselves, it is necessary to solve a number of difficult problems, of which a cart and a small cart. Of those that lie on the surface, this is the opacity of the mechanism of scientific research, the low level of funding, the low interest of customers due to the low culture of production and so on.
    And here - ready-made import solutions and components, although the customs services, of course, will try to contribute to slowing down the procurement process.
    Experts express deep doubts that with the help of "purchasing" robotization, labor productivity in our country will rush up in accordance with the bulk of plans. But once Japan bought robotics in the USSR.
    1. Avior
      Avior 28 September 2019 15: 26 New
      +1
      But once Japan bought robotics in the USSR.

      This is when it was?
      1. UserGun
        UserGun 28 September 2019 15: 54 New
        +3
        Yes it was, it was))) In single copies, in order to disassemble and see. They still use it, take it apart, look at what, on what and how it was done. The level of technology and the overall level are evaluated. The near-by then cite this as an example that they say "bought"))), magazines and murzilians cite as an example, they say weird Ipons are all dear to us, the condo was steamed))) the truth they forget to say shyly that it was rubbing and looked much in the same SSM on a larger scale, you just had to go to the technical library at the Design Bureau, in almost any enterprise.
      2. depressant
        depressant 28 September 2019 16: 14 New
        0
        Sorry, distracted and made a reservation: CNC machines. And now Japan itself sets such plants for us - for the production of CNC machines. For example, in Yekaterinburg. They gather in Saratov and, if I am not mistaken, in Tyumen. Through your German branch. OKuma Corporation through Ocum Europe CmbH. And even the Czechs are crammed into this business --checks!
        And on robots, we, apparently, lagged behind forever. Here we need a school, traditions, public opinion.
        But I have seen enough of these robots for a reddit. Not even there are shown. Only here the Russian - have never seen. Although our television, I remember, some kind of robotic process showed as part of its own production. But was the robot ours?
        1. Avior
          Avior 28 September 2019 16: 30 New
          +2
          The Japanese bought the stacks in a small amount! Twe, but not with the CNC, but simply rotary and other overall.
        2. UserGun
          UserGun 28 September 2019 16: 32 New
          -4
          And what are you proud of? Do you even know that these machines are only assembled and cost more, in the end, prototypes that are sold with might and main around the world and which can be bought easily and without straining ?! It's funny, but in the Russian catalogs the price of these machines is not written))) And yes, no FACTORIES! Karl, pagan Japan does not supply us))) In the best case, only accessories in the form of CNC racks (FANUC, Mitsubishi), drives, engines, ballscrews, that is, the most basic, and sometimes even some kind of Thailand can supply a cast-iron STAN !! ! because you can’t cast it in this wonderful country of clowns and cheap uryas writing about things that they themselves don’t know.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 28 September 2019 18: 23 New
            -3
            The beds are already casting, and the localized production of German-Japanese DMG in Ulyanovsk is open and not only, there is also the STAN group in Russia - which includes JSC Stankoteh specializing in the production of heavy and unique equipment weighing up to 860 tons for heavy engineering, aerospace industry and defense industry.

            Two-rack and single-column turning and milling rotary machines;
            Vertical and horizontal hobbing machines;
            Longitudinal milling machines and machining centers;
            Winding machines;
            Horizontal milling and boring machining centers with a movable column;
            Radial drilling machines;
            Pipe processing machines;
            Centerless lathes;
            Thread rolling / profile rolling machines;
            Wheel turning machines;
            Hardening machines;
            Forging equipment.
            and in the "wonderful country of clowns and cheap urya" they created the production of industrial 3D printers that are superior to their foreign counterparts - respect to the guys from St. Petersburg.
            1. UserGun
              UserGun 28 September 2019 20: 03 New
              +1
              I can tell you how the machines are “made”, fortunately, I know this firsthand and not from victorious fairy tales “in a single rush” and not from television clowns with lured Internet resources. It’s already annoying to listen to fairy tales and even more annoying to see how naive believe this. And at the cost of all this is just holy loot. You will be able to draw a beautiful picture, but in reality ...)))
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 28 September 2019 21: 55 New
                -2
                And you know - in our television clowns about the above described nothing is shown at all. "It’s already a pity to listen to fairy tales, and it’s even more a pity to see how naive believe this." But I don’t have to believe anyone since I’ve bought these machines myself and recently ordered DMG and CT and 3D printers, they’ll try it in two weeks, that's what I really didn’t like from the machines when I got the Chinese in 2013 - it's rare shit. All of the above works and brings money - there are no complaints about the first or second, it remains to wait until our plates and cutters begin to produce, I think this time is just around the corner.
                1. UserGun
                  UserGun 28 September 2019 22: 55 New
                  0
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  And I don’t have to believe anyone since these machines themselves buying and DMG


                  Tyuyuyuyu ... And let me ask you this post you wrote ?! )))



                  https://topwar.ru/145723-v-rossii-sozdaetsja-stankostroitelnyj-klaster-nakonec-to.html
                  1. UserGun
                    UserGun 28 September 2019 23: 56 New
                    0
                    I advise you to better prepare for the answer wink After all, the "model" of the machine, which I marked, is nothing more than a replica of the machine of the pagan Chinese, whom you have cheated on for nothing))):

                    Quote: Vadim237
                    acquired the Chinese in 2013 - rare shit


                    Namely - QUASER MV184 Tram-pam-pam))) What is interesting even in the name of the machine at the Russian "manufacturers" that clicked "in their heads and for some reason they replaced the Latin alphabet with the Cyrillic alphabet on the nameplate))) They could not rewrite the tsiferki, because they are Arabic))) I because I know these machines well, with the M70 rack, if that))) I don’t even know, they gave them the Putin Prize, as Tupolev received from Stalin at one time)))

                    And even funnier that the Russians, who are stealing from the Chinese now do not scold))) But how they bowed at the time)))
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 30 September 2019 18: 46 New
                      -1
                      I took Chinese CNCs, KVS KT5, KVS PT5 I saw only at the exhibition, as a matter of fact from our ST I have enough for the eyes. The Chinese do not recommend buying even replicas under our brand, or under someone else’s.
    2. bar
      bar 28 September 2019 15: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: depressant
      In fact, it was not our enterprises that took care of the robotics of Russian industry at all, which, having studied the sales market, decided to manufacture robotics, but the Ministry of Industrial Trade took care of it.

      I will support one hundred percent. The usual company with an imitation of violent activity instead of real affairs.
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 September 2019 17: 45 New
      -2
      "But everyone, having heard this, for some reason decided that Russia would produce robotics itself. Maybe we will produce something, but basically, it will be purchases." In Russia, there are 40 companies that are engaged in robotics, but it is now unprofitable to buy abroad - they may not sell the sanctions, and the price will be a bite.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • onix757
    onix757 28 September 2019 16: 11 New
    +5
    In the Russian Federation there is neither science nor production. A country where a quarter of the population is sovereign employees, a quarter trades, a quarter guards, and the rest tax it - it is doomed to unemployment.
    1. depressant
      depressant 28 September 2019 17: 33 New
      -1
      Onix757, you are absolutely right.
      Even if we assume that the leadership of the late USSR entered us into capitalism, guided by good intentions or irresistible circumstances, it did not take into account that foreign capitalism was also late, that is, developed. But you can’t deceive history, and we found ourselves in a society of early capitalism, in its wild stage. And now the poor are busy with survival, the middle ones are concerned about the preservation of the few that have managed to scrape together over the years of savagery, the consolidation of their precarious position, and a handful of the rich are rowing, as it should be at this historical stage.
      While in the same America, many middle-income people are busy with innovative creativity. Just remember how ordinary engineers made the robot a “draft cattle” that looked like a big dog or a donkey, and the Pentagon, watching the video, immediately allocated millions of grants to the guys and provided its laboratories to improve the development in the context of the army’s needs.
      Is this conceivable in our country? Of course not! What innovations are there at the garage level. But we have the smartest population, but the government does not care. Its task is to exclude any development of Russia.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 September 2019 22: 26 New
        -1
        Don’t bring nonsense please - in Russia at the moment 36 technoparks will open another 2024 by 45, Rosatom included more than 360 organizations of various legal forms with a turnover of more than a trillion rubles. KRET-employees annual turnover of more than 100 billion rubles production: electronic warfare systems and avionics, avionics, civil defense systems, measuring equipment, electrical connectors, cable systems, medical devices, household appliances. SCHWABE The holding consists of 64 organizations, including the management company - JSC Schwabe, 18 research institutes, design bureaus and research and production associations; the holding is developed and manufactured by high-tech optical-electronic devices, systems and complexes for various purposes, optical materials, medical equipment, energy-saving lighting equipment. Schwabe organizations are represented in Russian regions and abroad with a turnover of more than 100 billion rubles. Electronics - Includes more than 150 enterprises and scientific organizations specializing in the development and production of electronic components and technologies, communication tools and systems, automated control systems, robotic systems, microwave electronics, computer engineering and telecommunication equipment. turnover of 90 billion rubles. UEC is an integrated structure producing engines for military and civil aviation, space programs, gas turbine units of various capacities for the production of electric and thermal energy, gas pumping and ship gas turbine units with a turnover of 230 billion rubles
        Rostec -In its structure more than 700 organizations, of which 14 holding companies are formed. 11 of them - in the military-industrial complex, 3 - in civilian industries, as well as more than 80 direct management organizations .. Rostec organizations are located in 60 constituent entities of the Russian Federation and supply products to markets in more than 70 countries of the world with a turnover of more than 2 trillion rubles. STAN Group - STAN accounts for more than 50% of the market for metalworking equipment manufactured in Russia - and this is far from all high-tech manufacturers in Russia. So there are fewer snot.
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 28 September 2019 22: 35 New
          +1
          A lot of digits ... Familiar handwriting, sorry. Do not tell me the export volume in electronics?
          1. UserGun
            UserGun 29 September 2019 00: 14 New
            0
            Quote: Shahno
            Familiar handwriting, sorry


            Not that word wink As the pattern says smile Today, however, he also "buys" wink
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 29 September 2019 00: 20 New
              -2
              Quote: UserGun
              As the pattern says Today the truth is he also "buys"

              I'll tell you a feature: step on the Vadim237 link with the right mouse, say View Profile. There you click on the word "commentary". And you accusingly read what a person wrote there, from the very moment he appeared on the site.

              Then you can laugh. If desire does not disappear, of course wink
              1. UserGun
                UserGun 29 September 2019 00: 39 New
                0
                Omdya ... And also crucified before him, but it won out how it turns out. Emptiness ... Well, learning is never harmful. Thank!
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 29 September 2019 00: 47 New
                  -2
                  Quote: UserGun
                  Thank you

                  It's my pleasure. But - mind you - the brow has money, and this money works for him. Well, he said, naturally.

                  So buying a machine for him is about the same routine as buying a pair of socks for me. Something like this request
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 30 September 2019 19: 13 New
                    -1
                    Can you imagine it even easier - you don’t even have to leave home, everything is on the Internet, I have a 20% discount on all equipment from the Russian DMG supplier and a 15% discount on blank suppliers - in all my enterprises and services, the CEO delivered me only reports at the end a month comes with all the payments and everything else - 13 years have passed - now you can really live and enjoy, there’s just a little thing left to the ruble oligarch, you can get a family, and see the whole world with your own eyes
                2. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 30 September 2019 18: 50 New
                  -1
                  Emptiness is you in life - A comment is written in a few seconds, I have a lot of time right now - since I play on the stock exchange on a large scale every day.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 September 2019 18: 30 New
      -4
      "In the Russian Federation there is neither science nor production." Well, yes - then where in the country where everyone is taxing and protecting something - Su 57, Vanguard, Petrel, Peresvet, Dagger, S 400, Shell Sarmat and much more - probably the Chinese exported.
  • Sergey M. Karasev
    Sergey M. Karasev 28 September 2019 16: 16 New
    +2
    Quote: Sahalinets
    Austrian school economists have long proved Marx's mistake. Surplus value arises only during the sale process! And no matter what pennies you pay to hard workers, if your products are not bought ...

    Excuse me, where is the contradiction with Marx? It is clear that surplus VALUE is expressed in money that can be obtained by selling goods. If Marx did not write this directly, it was only because Capital was intended for understanding people who do not need to chew on obvious things, and not for children of primary school age.
  • Ajevgenij
    Ajevgenij 28 September 2019 19: 59 New
    0
    It's nice to read the thoughts of a person who understands something. thank
  • Victor Orthodox
    Victor Orthodox 28 September 2019 20: 35 New
    0
    What a good advertisement for their services.
    I read a book, science fiction about the future, it describes a world where only robots work, and people do not work and sit on subsidies.
    I don’t know how it will be with us, but someone else should buy goods from automatic plants. So there should be a salary for buyers, in theory.
  • Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 28 September 2019 21: 29 New
    +1
    The article is great! Thanks to the author!
  • wooja
    wooja 28 September 2019 21: 32 New
    +2
    too optimistic ..., yes, robots have their own niche, but the author does not take into account financial and socio-psychological aspects, and the comments are very good ... Unfortunately the author does not take into account the reduction in the share of large-scale and mass production, the example of China is quite stirrups ..., the duration of existence many companies leave much to be desired ..., the pay of programmers and integrators will only grow, the rising cost of living does not cause optimism regarding the mass use of robots ..., a qualified technician is cheaper , and universal equipment in conjunction with human hands and experience in market conditions is a very strong argument, especially since the qualifications of workers are falling .... both abroad and inside, and it’s easier to train a monkey ..., especially since some of them very capable ....
  • Mihail55
    Mihail55 28 September 2019 21: 38 New
    +2
    Quote: at84432384
    How much I read the arguments about general robotization, I wonder how much: and the robots themselves do not grow on the tree. To create them, people and many are needed. And very educated, and not just technically. There will simply be a transfer of human resources from the sphere of production of goods and services to the sphere of development and production of robots. And it is very doubtful that mass unemployment would begin. Rather, the opposite. But what exactly is required is to radically change the education system and prepare not a “competent consumer” as the head of the ministry put it, but a human creator, as it was in the USSR.

    Happy Holiday tomorrow, the day of the machine builder! You are absolutely right! The more complex the technique, the more time-consuming care. Clearly, we need more and more competent specialists ... and not the current "managers". It's time to keep up with the times. rather than lag behind ... or does Russia deserve it? But all these feats can be carried out under the strict state leadership ... to our bourgeoisie weakly. I’ll keep silent about the modern ... upper, I hope they will come there who are worthy ...
    1. Campanella
      Campanella 30 September 2019 23: 20 New
      -1
      Erroneous point of view. People do not need a lot. A person is like a creator, and robots are designers, robots are machine builders, robots are repairmen, logisticians, etc. the main thing is to start the process and then the process of reducing human participation in all production chains will go on. Fundamental science, industry will remain, a certain number of programmers ...
      Sophisticated technology now implies precision technology and automation, people are doing worse.
  • Shahno
    Shahno 28 September 2019 21: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: Saxahorse
    Quote: Shahno
    How is it in Russian reality with a stable currency and slave labor now?

    Please specify what you mean by currency stability. Minimum production depreciation cycle of 7 years. And when was the last time we had the ruble exchange rate doubled ???

    I partly agree. But for the investor there is still the concept of confidence in the currency. It also takes time.
    Plus, I agree with Zaurbek in terms of the fact that local capital is practically not invested in production, much less in high-tech .... But I strongly doubt that this is a Russian trend just in recent years.
    In addition, the level of employee remuneration is also quite low, which, given the dependence of the production of electronic components and robotic devices on imports, is not good for RTK's own production ....
    For the defense industry with state support, let’s say the prospects with the use of “robots” are certainly greater.
    1. wooja
      wooja 28 September 2019 22: 04 New
      +3
      yes, that’s also a true remark ..., unfortunately, government policy is perplexing ... if the actions of the communists are understandable from the point of view of ideological dogma .... then the policy of the Russian authorities from the point of view of the liberal economy is inexplicable.
  • iouris
    iouris 28 September 2019 22: 34 New
    0
    The future has already come: a blow to the Saudi infrastructure led to a 50% decrease in production, but no one died, only forty workers produce 400000 car bodies per year, etc.
  • hermit
    hermit 29 September 2019 09: 39 New
    0
    After complete robotization comes communism.
  • Campanella
    Campanella 30 September 2019 23: 11 New
    0
    Fun story. Taking into account the interests of business and ordinary people, robotization will cause a lot of problems.
    The first is the global political structure of the world.
    The second is the solution of the question of extra people and people in general.
    Within the framework of capitalism, this may turn out to be an insoluble problem.
  • trahterist
    trahterist 2 October 2019 06: 44 New
    0
    The article gives away a strong Manilovism.

    ... "The second plant goes bankrupt" ...
    Just the First Plant goes bankrupt First!
    For there will be no one to work with generalized robots.
    All directors, freelancers, or the same personnel serving the above robotics CANNOT be purely logical, mathematically.
    From the strength of such 3-5%, well, a maximum of 10% will be.
    WHERE do you order the rest?
    And what kind of shisha, let me ask you, do they live ??
    So the problem is very serious is brewing.
    Considering that a systematic, shocking pace is already underway, cutting off all kinds of social payments and other benefits from the state (and I’m not talking about Russia at all, this is also successful in the United Kingdom, it’s just that the social network is fatter, and the consequences will be felt later). an explosion, and it smells like a concrete batch (it even stinks fiercely)!
    Well, or a large-scale war, as a means of disposing of 'extra mouths'.
    Sorry for the directness.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 5 October 2019 17: 42 New
      -1
      Mass robotization will not be too expensive - in production and maintenance.