The military was interested in the developed method of navigation without using satellites

In Russia, the development of a new generation navigation system (global positioning) continues. This is a system that will not use satellites in determining the coordinates of an object. It is assumed that such a system will be significantly more reliable than satellite, including in connection with the independence of work from climatic conditions and the presence of any obstacles (mountains, tunnels, etc.).

Russian scientists note that we are talking about a navigation system that is not based on receiving signals from satellites, but on the method of gravitational analysis.

What does it consist of?

In simple terms, it consists in taking into account the curvature of the earth's surface. So, every point on the earth’s surface experiences an attractive force, and these forces differ for different points (even the free fall acceleration at each point is different - by a small percentage). The reason is also due to the fact that the points are located at "their" heights relative to sea level (or below this level). Points have their own gravitational potentials. And if all these parameters are taken into account mathematically, then using computer technology you can create a coordinate system - based on the gravitational characteristics of the surface areas of our planet.

This approach will allow you to determine the coordinates with a high degree of accuracy, not only on the surface of the Earth, but also in any of its layers, under water and in the sky.

This method has already interested the military, because the method of gravitational determination of coordinates will not only accelerate the process of global positioning for high-precision weaponsbut also improve its accuracy in various environments. The approach is relevant, for example, for the use of high-precision weapons at long distances from the board of submarines.

At the moment, the main difficulty for scientists is that building a gravitational coordinate map takes time, because we are talking about multi-stage calculations, which should be of the highest accuracy - the minimum error.

Comments

[sergo1914]

Well yes. A typical scenario of post-apocalypse.

[Civil]

Give a gravitational bomb, let them respect and do not climb into Tajikistan against our strategic interests there.

[Teberii]

The rocket will carry geolocation equipment with it, how much will it cost then.

[Thrall]

Quote: Teberii

The rocket will carry geolocation equipment with it, how much will it cost then.

Not more expensive than usual today. The gravity sensor will replace (complement) the GPS chip simply. The only thing that I do not understand is how the coordinates can be determined by this equipment not in motion (without changing the gravity indicators), and even more so, during a "cold start".

[Hagalaz]

Another thing that is not clear. With GPS navigation, the coordinates change with an accuracy of the order of meters. Is it possible to provide the same accuracy by operating on gravity and curvature?

[Vladimir16]

What is written in this article is bullshit.

(even the free fall acceleration indicators at each point are different - by a small percentage)

What is such a "small percentage"? Can anyone give an example?
Does the gravity in the Kremlin differ from the gravity in Sochi by a "small percentage"?

If we consider the force of gravity of GDP in Sochi and in the Kremlin, then there is certainly a "small percentage" difference. In the Kremlin, Vladimirovich visits more often.

But the difference is in the acceleration of free fall by a percentage, albeit small, but by a percentage!

Horseradish with them and with Sochi and the Kremlin. Between them, the distance is more than a thousand kilometers.
But how to achieve accuracy in meters with your "small percentage", for example, in London?
After all, is it necessary to somehow determine the right house in this city with a flying rocket?

You are lying, fellow writers, you are simply lying.

[Hagalaz]

Maybe desa ? Dust? Like let the adversary break his head, Th Russian invent. Means you look will spend .....

[Shurik70]

Quote: Hagalaz

Maybe desa ? Dust? Like let the adversary break his head, Th Russian invent. Means you look will spend .....

Tss-ss-ss !!!

[Nizhlogger]

At the Department of Geophysics, when we were doing gravika laboratory work - to compile a table of g values ​​on different floors of a five-story building in different wings. We ran with a "samovar" (gravimeter) on the floors and made up. Quite a difference existed in meanings.

[Hagalaz]

Hm. Thanks, informative.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Nizhlogger

At the Department of Geophysics, when we were doing gravika laboratory work - to compile a table of g values ​​on different floors of a five-story building in different wings. We ran with a "samovar" (gravimeter) on the floors and made up. Quite a difference existed in meanings.

I understand that to compile a map you have to run around the world with a samovar at all conceivable heights?

[Nizhlogger]

It was the year 1980. Since then, I think (hopefully) gravimeters have made great advances in compactness, accuracy and measurement speed. Maybe satellite in low orbits already exist.

[cyborg]

You seem to have measured atmospheric pressure and converted it to g ..

[Nizhlogger]

In different wings of the same building on the same floor?
The gravimeter was trickier than the barometer.

[tpocorp]

The fact of the matter is that the vertical difference is very noticeable - 99% of it is due to the distance from the center of mass of the earth. And gravity exploration maps have long existed and are very similar to terrain maps. And if you fly at a constant height, as a rocket does, then it will not understand anything, it will have a completely different picture. It's about trying to run orienteering around the globe with your glasses off.

[region58]

Quote: Vladimir16

After all, is it necessary to somehow determine the right house in this city with a flying rocket?

Quote: Nizhlogger

compile a table of g values ​​on different floors of a five-story building in different wings.

What about winter? The snowdrift is big bogged down - gravity will also change little, and why, all the cards in vain? Or which house will be built nearby, or they will dig a pit, not to mention the metro they will build - will all the devices go crazy?

[Plate]

But how to achieve accuracy in meters with your "small percentage", for example, in London?

Personally, I don’t understand such things, but I’ll guess. Maybe gravity navigation is just one of the navigation tools, m? In order to correct large errors of existing inertial systems. The rocket flies to the place on the ANN, corrected by gravity (at large distances, the ANN accumulates errors, and this gravitational navigation, as you indicated, just works at great distances), in place it starts to navigate by the images loaded into it (I read that the American Tomahawks can do that). That is, literally, I saw the right house - flew to him.

[meandr51]

You must also be able to lie. Usefully. What if they don’t lie?

[Chaldon48]

To do this, you need to accurately study everything in terms of gravity, without satellites this is not physically possible, and not one country will allow it to do such a study on its territory, so only satellites really remain. Of course, knowing the specific gravity of the rocks and having a three-dimensional model of the planet try to calculate, but these will be approximate data.

[astepanov]

Quote: Thrall

as coordinates this equipment can determine not in motion (without changing the gravity indicators), and even more so, with a "cold start".

It is not difficult to determine the coordinates of the start: nobody canceled the maps and topographic maps. But further ... The acceleration of gravity depends on latitude (increases towards the poles), height and the presence of local anomalies, and its gradient is very small. The deviation from the average when moving at the poles is only 0,14%. Local variations are many times smaller. In the measurement of g, large errors can be made by the own accelerations of a moving object (rockets, submarines, etc.), and they need to be taken into account somehow. But if you can measure your own accelerations with all accuracy and integrate them, then the navigation problem is solved automatically - without any gravimetry. And one more thing: a short malfunction in the satellite navigation can be not terrible, every motorist is familiar with such malfunctions. But a failure in gravimetric navigation, it seems, can become fatal and require either incredible computing power, or (and) very accurate maps. Finally, accurate maps can be obtained on their territory and in international waters, but who will allow this to be done on the territory of the adversary? From satellites, the picture will inevitably be blurred. And you also need to take into account the tidal forces from the Moon and the Sun ... So it turns out that the good old gyroscope, with all its shortcomings, the whole system may not replace.

[astepanov]

Well, this article says that in principle someday this system will allow positioning with an accuracy of plus or minus one hundred to two hundred meters. And only on submarines. And only in the presence of very accurate gravikart of all water areas. Note that such mapping is troublesome and expensive. So it's too early to hit the timpani.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: astepanov

Well, this article says that in principle someday this system will allow positioning with an accuracy of plus or minus one hundred to two hundred meters. And only on submarines. And only in the presence of very accurate gravikart of all water areas. Note that such mapping is troublesome and expensive. So it's too early to hit the timpani.

The main thing is to ring the bell! And if this is really so and this is not a misinformation, but the most accurate measurement of coordinates ?! It turns out a simple "leak" of information to "friendly partners". And they "candy wrappers" will print and will conduct R&D in this direction. What if it works out for them, and not for us because of underfunding according to Kudrinski ?!

[Simple]

Quote: astepanov

And you also need to consider the tidal forces from the moon and the sun ..

Not only.

In general, the ability to make horoscopes with this method of determining coordinates will be very necessary.

[AnderS]

but who will allow it to be done on the territory of the adversary?

I suspect, and on the territory of the adversary, this is done elementary. Take a car with dipnomers, put a gravimeter in the trunk and start rolling around the adversary's territory, like a "Google mobile" ...

[Pushkar]

Quote: astepanov

And you also need to take into account the tidal forces from the Moon and the Sun ... So it turns out that the good old gyroscope, with all its shortcomings, the whole system may not replace.

Can. The tidal forces of the Sun and Moon in advance are perfectly calculated with modern time measuring instruments.

[meandr51]

To allow? And who will ban? On the territory of the adversary, problems with metering will only be in closed facilities. There are few of them. Gravity sensors are small in size ...

[tpocorp]

completely cold start does not exist
if it’s not Monday morning, you can always understand with some accuracy where you are
for specters - there is such a science as gravimetry, its applied direction is gravity exploration, and its aviation implementation has existed for more than a dozen years and serves to compile geological forecast maps. To rethink this for the military is a matter of technology
There is also magnetic reconnaissance, and it can also be used for the same purposes.

[Thrall]

I hasten to upset the owners of modern smartphones - the accelerometer is not a gravity sensor

[bessmertniy]

To each - according to a personal gravity meter - so that everyone knows where he is and does not get lost in an unfamiliar area or environment.

[Thrall]

Quote: bessmertniy

To each - according to a personal gravity meter

If you get lost in the forest, you climb onto a pine tree and jump down, detecting the time of the fall. Below, after the pain has passed, you calculate the strength of the acceleration of the fall ... At the same time, you understand where you are (you looked from the height of the surroundings)

[Piramidon]

Quote: Thrall

At the same time you understand where you are

- How to determine the cardinal points from the trees?
- Very simple. Where are the palm trees, there is the South, where are the Christmas trees, there is the North.

[novel66]

if there are no trees and it’s cold - the tundra, and if there are no trees and warm - the savannah

[lukewarm]

Quote: Thrall

If you get lost in the forest, climb a pine tree

Duck is still necessary to climb!

[novel66]

wolves will help

[novobranets]

Quote: novel xnumx

wolves will help

A tourist asks a local resident:

“How do I get to the top of that mountain quickly?”

- I can untie my dog.

[ltc35]

Closer to the poles, the force of gravity is higher. From here it becomes clear that the blacks in Africa climb palm trees, but the Eskimos do not!

[novobranets]

Quote: Thrall

after the pain has passed, you calculate the force of acceleration of the fall ... At the same time, you understand where you are (you examined from a height of the vicinity)

Having become oriented by such an extreme method, you wait for the obscene echo to subside in the forest, and you hobble to the place where iodine, bandages and crutches are buried.

[antivirus]

but if you need a second one? - how many shakes is the device designed for?

[iConst]

Quote: bessmertniy

To each - according to a personal gravity meter

Gravitsap is not a luxury, but a conscious necessity! Gravitsapu to the masses!

[Pushkar]

Quote: iConst

Gravitsap is not a luxury, but a conscious necessity! Gravitsapu to the masses!

Twice "ku".

[dauria]

I hasten to upset the owners of modern smartphones - the accelerometer is not a gravity sensor

But what about the principle of equivalence? According to Einstein it is impossible to distinguish acceleration from gravity. So these devices use the same principles. But how to exclude acceleration from oscillations of a rocket (ship, aircraft) from wind, waves, etc. ? After all, accuracy is needed ahovy. Or to average the readings over a long section - then what for such navigation accurate to the mainland. There are plenty of other ways to get around America.

[Simple]

Quote: dauria

According to Einstein it is impossible to distinguish acceleration from gravity.

Acceleration due to gravity is always a consequence of the latter and its vector is also a consequence of gravity.

[svp67]

Quote: sergo1914

Well yes. A typical scenario of post-apocalypse.

No, this is the historical reality of Russia. I am surprised that something needs to be created, since such an independent system has existed and has been functioning effectively for more than one century

[Hagalaz]

Accounting for surface curvature? And what will the "flat land" say to this?

[Sergei 777]

They say it's fake and cut

[Ren]

Quote: Hagalaz

Accounting for surface curvature? And what will the "flat land" say to this?

So such a model is possible only when taking into account a flat Earth!
For a round Earth, it will be necessary to recalculate the model after each earthquake, tsunami, taking into account the precession of the Moon, etc., etc., since in a spherical Earth the movements of lithospheric plates, magma, ocean water masses are regular and not simulated.
If this can be clogged (modeled), then this model can be used to predict earthquakes with high accuracy.
Officially, scientists definitely do not know about the internal structure of our planet, but only guess.

[cniza]

Well, yes, and you can also work with a shovel and another gravity.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: cniza

Well, yes, and you can also work with a shovel and another gravity.

"While the enemy is drawing plans for the offensive, we are changing the landscape. Moreover, manually." © "DMB".

[cniza]

In what year was this said? , then they already knew.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: cniza

other gravity

-I am a landscape designer!
-Work on a computer in 3D?
-Nope, on a bulldozer, on DT!
And you are a shovel!

[cniza]

Soon there will be a lot of ditties on this subject.

[Slon1978]

As far as I understand, this is not about navigation for travelers, namely target designation for military purposes. Indeed, such a system is hardly suitable for navigation in the classical sense - after all, you can spend a lot of resources on mapping, but then a micro earthquake will shift the lithosphere plate by millimeters and the map will lose its relevance. But if the coordinates of the target can be laid in the GOS in the form of a gravitational imprint of the place taken by the drone the day before, as well as to draw the path of the rocket along the same gravitational map, then GPS or Glonass will not be needed. Especially in war conditions, it will most likely be drowned out.

[Thrall]

Exactly the same thoughts

[U-58]

Nothing. Vaughn, on Saraksh, it was believed that they live inside a sphere-bubble, and in ballistics they used the "idiotic" theory that they live on an external sphere

[Hagalaz]

Well, no matter how correct . Saraksh is still a fictional world.
Although ..... If you had invented a car for traveling into the described future! ......

[Mestny]

Saraksh was invented by scientists. Despite the fact that they wrote fiction.
On the contrary, for real scientists writing fantastic books is the only way to express their ideas, for which they will be crushed right away in the scientific world.

[Cat man null]

Quote: Hagalaz

Although ..... If you had invented a car for traveling in the described future!

"Monday starts on Saturday" read, it is described there. As far as I remember, not everyone liked it

[Hagalaz]

Duc on "Monday" and a hint . I myself would not have thought of such an idea.
Even more annoying was the phrase of one character (I don’t remember) about traveling to the present being described ....

[Mestny]

About the DESCRIBED future is generally brilliant. Reflection of the idea that any imaginary worlds are real.

[Hagalaz]

Sorry, but we need to dot the i's here. In general, yes, the idea of ​​the materiality of the imaginary. But there is a subtext. First, satire about the described future. And secondly, a satirical hint at the discrepancy between the described present and the real present.

[Mestny]

Yes, the work itself is a fierce satire on the science of that time, scientists, and the very principle of organizing work in a research institute.

[Cat man null]

Quote: Mestny

the work is precisely a fierce satire on the then science, scientists, and the very principle of organizing work in a research institute

Oh well ... kind, good book, normal scientists there (mostly), and science is normal ... stop throwing satire everywhere, this is an unhealthy occupation

Quote: novel xnumx

I liked the word "synecdoche"

There are a lot of good words ... a paradise for a philologist, practical

[Hagalaz]

Yes satire, satire. But not furious of course, this is too much. But satire and hints and subtle humor, indeed everything is very kind (some are frosty girls who meet astronauts reading poetry what are they worth, and life on the other side of the wall? and so on and so forth), not aggressively.
Good book.

[novel66]

I liked the word "synecdoche"

[Lipchanin]

Interesting. This is what a step forward will be.

At the moment, the main difficulty for scientists is that building a gravitational coordinate map takes time, because we are talking about multi-stage calculations, which should be of the highest accuracy - the minimum error.

Well, the difficulties of our scientists will not surprise

[cniza]

If only they financed for reference, only how to deal with a constantly changing curvature of the surface, and accordingly gravity, for which they do not agree or direct the adversaries along the wrong path.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: cniza

only how to deal with a constantly changing curvature of the surface, and, accordingly, gravity, which is not agreed upon

Well, why do not finish.

In simple terms, it consists in taking into account the curvature of the earth's surface.

And further in the text

[cniza]

It's like in a joke - "... and then a file ..."

[Lipchanin]

Quote: cniza

It's like in a joke - "... and then a file ..."

File

[cniza]

No, well, this is too cruel ...

[Lipchanin]

Quote: cniza

No, well, this is too cruel.

Thin thing

[novel66]

once a competent technologist wrote in the card "0.1 mm to remove by polishing" a locksmith and did not know whether to cry or laugh

[Lipchanin]

Quote: novel xnumx

somehow one competent technology

In one aircraft design bureau, they could not achieve the strength of the wings. Fall off and fall off. How many do not fight, there is no sense. One locksmith accidentally heard the designers talk.
- And you do perforation along the wing
- Yes, it instantly comes off the earth
- Guys, have you seen toilet paper torn by perforation?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: cniza

No, well, this is too cruel ...

It would be "cruel" if the file were diamond.

[BARKAS]

A lot of time and effort has also been spent on compiling topographic maps.

[bessmertniy]

Newton at one time did not take into account subtleties. I got it on the head with an apple, pulled out my gravity, and left us the subtleties - so that we get confused in them.

[Boris55]

Yes, the Great Patriotic War somehow won without satellites and nothing, but if that people tell me where to go it is necessary.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Boris55

and if that people tell where to go it is necessary.

Aha. To paraphrase, "Why would I crumple geography, the taxi driver will take you"

[Boris55]

Quote: Lipchanin

"Why would I crumple geography, the taxi driver will take you"

There is another.
The grandfather is sitting on the rubble with his grandson. Military men pass by, stop at an intersection, get out, take out a map ... Grandfather: "Look, granddaughter, the military got the map, now they will ask for the way."

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Boris55

There is another.

Chukchi sits on the ocean shore. Amerskaya submarine emerges. The captain got out, looked around, shouted into the hatch, "Course 230". Sank down. After 5 minutes, our submarine emerges. The captain gets out
- Chukchi, did you see amers?
- Saw.
- Where did you go?
- Course 230
- Don’t get smart, point a finger

[novel66]

you can ask .. it happens

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: novel xnumx

you can ask .. it happens

And they don’t have to ask, they themselves know where to get it!

[novobranets]

-Walk, so walk. Moses said and led his people into the wilderness.

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: novobranets

-Walk, so walk. Moses said and led his people into the wilderness

And then he hit the empty GLASS on the sand and the poppies blossomed.
And the buzz continued!

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Boris55

the military got out the map, now they will ask for directions. "

:)

[Antares]

Quote: Boris55

Yes, the Great Patriotic War somehow won without satellites and nothing, but if that people tell me where to go it is necessary.

rockets also in flight will be SMS with the population to exchange, where, how many turns to the left ...

[Boris55]

Quote: Antares

rockets also in flight will be sms with the population exchange

Her. Pioneers on the roofs of houses with red ties will give the go-ahead.

[BARKAS]

It depends on whose people the experience of the Second World War and the first Chechen war shows that not everything is so simple and even the Susanins in the world have not yet been extinct.

[depressant]

What parameters do developers come from when calculating the gravitational potential? It really bothers me. Suppose two parts of the earth’s surface are located at the same height above the surface of the ocean. But under one lies the iron ores of a deposit not yet found, and under the other they are not. What to do with this?

[Hog]

They probably know better how and what.
And it’s not realistic to find the same points, due to the gravitational effect of the moon (and its effect will be 100% in the model), etc. factors.

[Mestny]

Quote: depressant

Suppose two parts of the earth’s surface are located at the same height above the surface of the ocean. But under one lies the iron ores of a deposit not yet found, and under the other they are not. What to do with this?

That is how it should be. This will also be the difference in gravitational potentials. They want to use it.

[Kalmar]

The idea is certainly interesting, but a number of all sorts of "buts" raises doubts:

1. A complete gravitational map of the Earth with an acceptable resolution is the same data bullion. How to squeeze all this into a more or less portable device is a big question.

2. Is there a way to obtain such a map remotely (from the air or from a satellite)? Or will it be necessary to directly go around the entire ball with your feet with some conditional "graviometer" in your hands?

3. How will the (organizational) map be updated? After all, all sorts of factors (anthropogenic and natural) can gradually change the terrain and, in theory, gravitational indicators.

4. And will magma movements not create errors that are almost impossible to track and take into account (in any case, autonomously)?

[Hog]

1. Where is such a conclusion interesting?
2. Fleet + cars (like Google map with a gravimeter only).
3. Changes can be incorporated into the model.
4. And someone said that this will not be taken into account?
PS: We do not know anything about this development, and at what stage it is, and as a result, most of the conclusions are not substantiated.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Hog

1. Where is such a conclusion interesting?

The surface area of ​​the Earth is about 510 million square meters. km If we want to cover it with dots in increments of, say, 10m, we get something around 5 trillion dots (I don’t have good mathematics in the morning, check for me). A floating-point number takes up 8 bytes of memory. Total - about 40 Tb. And these are pure points.

Quote: Hog

2. Fleet + cars (like Google map with a gravimeter only).

What percentage of the surface of our ball did Google manage to shoot with its google mobiles?

Quote: Hog

3. Changes can be incorporated into the model.
4. And someone said that this will not be taken into account?

Today, models capable of modeling tectonic processes are processed by stadium-sized supercomputers. It’s expensive to carry this with you, no? How to model anthropogenic activity - I can’t imagine the mind at all.

Quote: Hog

most of the conclusions are unfounded

I’m not making any conclusions yet. So, shared his thoughts.

[Mestny]

Such a system is possible only if a method for remote gravity sensing is found. For example from satellites.
The entire surface of the earth is not needed. Only needed in intended areas of use for accuracy.
And in the area itself, you can fly on a regular map.

[bk0010]

Even during the first flights around the moon it was found: a satellite, a dog, did not fly as it was counted (for unknown reasons). So the mascots discovered.

[Vitaly Tsymbal]

It is quite a real "hypothesis" for the beginning of the development of a new sphere ... 30 years ago, we could not even imagine that mobile communications would become generally available, and the Internet was only imagined from fantastic stories)))

[Mestny]

But here you must agree - the sphere is already very unusual. Gravity for humanity is now probably like electricity for the ancient Greeks at one time. I rubbed my amber wand - my hair on end. Neither how it works, nor how to apply it is not clear.

[Vitaly Tsymbal]

I agree with you about the unusual. The only thing is that gravity is not common for people like us, and scientists already have something to "catch on". After all, often the answers to the secrets that seem to us like a fairy tale lie in plain sight, just because of "carelessness" we do not see it yet. But we are ordinary inhabitants of planet Earth, but scientists are trying to "look" at the usual more carefully, "with a squint")))

[Mestny]

If so, then humanity has a hope for a breakthrough. Truly global.
I'd love to believe, to be honest. It doesn’t even matter where it will be - here, in the USA, or elsewhere.

[Mountain shooter]

Use a gravimetric map? Good thing. First you need to remove it, this card. Gravitometer with very high sensitivity. The second problem is tying your place. Well, the third - gravitometers are very sensitive to the acceleration of their carrier. And using weapon carriers without acceleration is very difficult ... But the idea is good.

[Mestny]

The idea is good, but so far what we know about it en masse is witchcraft at the level of antigravity and communication systems based on it. That is, only in the movies.
A breakthrough in this direction would be comparable to the beginning of the use of electricity, even more.

[Flex]

The tale of the gravity map has already been shown in the movie Climber. starring Stallone

[U-58]

It seems that by analogy with the hydrographic service of the fleet, they will lead the geogravitational service of the army.
200 years of filming and measurements - and the gravitational portrait of the planet is ready

[Rwmos]

In this case, I’m not quite catching up with how such a geo-positioner will show me that I didn’t leave Moscow for Tula, but went up to the ninth floor by elevator. The gravitational component will obviously change more. I'm not talking about that. that jumped on Beter - he will immediately show you that you teleported to Peter

[rotmistr60]

development of navigation system continues

And will it be, and if so, when? Probably you shouldn't say "Gop" until you've jumped. A lot of things are being developed in Russia, including a flight to Mars.

[Mestny]

Just interesting information. Why not tell. Moreover, no one writes that it is about to appear.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

An excellent idea and it will be much better to use it than via satellite.

[Zhan]

At the moment, the main difficulty for scientists is that building a gravitational coordinate map takes time, because we are talking about multi-stage calculations, which should be of the highest accuracy - the minimum error.

It seems to me that this is practically impracticable, or feasible, but rather time-consuming, given that the magnetic poles are constantly in motion, just like gravity is constantly changing anywhere in the world. The error will be quite large. Here, as we already spoke about Radio-photon radars, the results are very encouraging, and the accuracy is very, very decent.

[bald]

It is still far from perfect to determine the desired point, as is done in the animal kingdom (birds, whales, etc.), but it is great that science is progressing.

[Brylevsky]

At the moment, the main difficulty for scientists is that building a gravitational coordinate map takes time

Will the Americans let us carry out gravimetric surveys on their territory? Anyway, any other sovereign power ... "Guys, we'll try on something here ... but don't worry, this will not turn against you later" - is that right?

[bar]

we are talking about a navigation system that is not based on receiving signals from satellites, but on the method of gravitational analysis

They no longer hope for Dmitry Olegovich?

[Mestny]

On the contrary.
It is only satellites that can be measured in vast areas.
Remove the pan, diverge.

[Brylevsky]

Quote: depressant

But under one lies the iron ores of a deposit not yet found, and under the other they are not. What to do with this?

In this case, it will be necessary to carry out full-fledged gravimetric surveys. Adova work will be ...

[Operator]

This is a development from the 1980's, when it was planned to equip ICBM warheads with gravimeters and, accordingly, create a gravimetric map of the Earth using satellites. But then the accuracy of gravimetric positioning was 200 meters, so astronavigation with an accuracy of 90 meters was adopted.

Currently, the size of the so-called The quantum gravimeter is 1 cc.

[Karabas]

Currently, the size of the so-called The quantum gravimeter is 1 cc.

Quantum gravitometers are so sensitive that they even react to the approach of any small body, for example, a person. Pin * dosos wanted to make a radar from them for air defense - nothing happened to them.

[ism_ek]

[/ quote] [quote = Operator]
Currently, the size of the so-called The quantum gravimeter is 1 cc.

Rostec in Izhevsk built a plant for the production of quantum accelerometers, is now trying to find application for them.

[Operator]

The accelerometer measures the acceleration of the body, the gravitometer - the strength of the gravitational field.

[Karabas]

This approach will allow you to determine the coordinates with a high degree of accuracy, not only on the surface of the Earth, but also in any of its layers, under water and in the sky.

With a low degree of accuracy. Gravity maps of celestial bodies have been built for many decades.

At the moment, the main difficulty for scientists is that building a gravitational coordinate map takes time, because we are talking about multi-stage calculations, which should be of the highest accuracy - the minimum error.

It does not take time.

[voyaka uh]

The Earth’s core is heterogeneous in density. And magma either rises to the surface in certain places, then again goes deep. And gravity in the area also depends on this. The method will never be more accurate than astronavigation.

[Mestny]

Here the measurement technology itself is interesting.

[Corn]

They won’t come up with it, if only the GLONASS satellites are not kept in good condition.

[Flex]

The complete nonsense. But I wonder how many tons this device weighs-for measuring individual gravity. Although there is a possible explanation, another one was scattered on a 30-missile type wunderwaffe

[yehat]

maybe science ran so far and fast forward that I didn’t notice
but the proposed method reminds me of deciphering random events in probability theory -
these are also predetermined events that we “simply” could not calculate.
here are these coordinates, they certainly are and theoretically amenable to calculations, but in reality
I just don’t understand how to do this without having a scientific camp in assistants.

[aleks26]

At the moment, the main difficulty for scientists is that building a gravitational coordinate map takes time, because we are talking about multi-stage calculations, which should be of the highest accuracy - the minimum error.
Well, in general, the gravity maps have long been built and are used in calculating trajectories during the "divorce" of the warhead of ballistic missiles. Without this, the accuracy will be = / - "barn gate"

[voyaka uh]

This, by the way, is the big "X" layout of the warhead over the enemy's territory. What is the guarantee that the gravity map is correct? Not outdated?
For this reason, Americans hold fewer warheads on their ICBMs, and sometimes even one.

[aleks26]

Quote: voyaka uh

This, by the way, is the big "X" layout of the warhead over the enemy's territory.

The warhead is deployed immediately, upon reaching the operating height, and they try to do this as quickly as possible, given the size of Russia and the fact that the complexes are at a decent distance from the borders, this happens over their own territory. What can gravity change? To do this, you need to "solidly" change the terrain along the course of the warhead. If this happens, the CER will increase. How critical it is depends on the goals, objectives and power of the warhead.

[voyaka uh]

But there is another snag. If deployed early, the "warhead bundle" will be narrow.
After all, these are ballistic objects after the fuel burned out.
If the warhead immediately too deviates from the optimal (initial) trajectory, then it will not fly the required distance. There will be a shortage. Example: One ICBM launches 8 warheads. The wiring is early. They fly in a beam to an area where there are simply no eight important targets.
Either two or three should be sent to the same place (city, military base, factory), or they will explode over a sparsely populated area.

[dauria]

. They fly in a beam to an area where there are simply no eight important targets.

There are many heads for another reason. There is only one goal - the city. The task is simple - to create a zone of continuous destruction on the largest possible area. And this radius from the epicenter is the cubic root of power. It makes no sense to throw 10 megatons. 10 pieces in megatons will cover a larger area. Than to evaporate sand in a small piece, it is better to simply melt it over the entire area without evaporating.

[bk0010]

This method is not for warhead wiring, it is for launching a cruise missile from the tudnra sea to the area of ​​the next correction (so that it is not only inertial attached initially)

[certero]

Understood nothing. And how does this method differ from the long-known inertial one?

[Avior]

to everyone. the inertial system counts the coordinates from the start point or the last correction autonomously.
The proposed system constantly measures the force of attraction and, based on the measured value, finds the location on the map.
something like a permanent grater

[certero]

As far as I remember, tracking location by changing gravity was described by Clancy in the hunt for red October. There it was sold as a small ball located in special cavities where it was possible to track the slightest changes in gravity

[Avior]

Clancy, how to say it, a little fiction in some places

[Yves762]

It will be easier to make a fig, so that she can ask the local ....

[Kerensky]

Dangerous thing. Suppose there is a gravitational map and it is embedded in the GOS. Where will she lead? How much time do we have? 11 - 40 minutes?

[Shuttle]

All this stuccion with precise determination of coordinates is really great for orientation in space. But the thing is that it is required to determine these very parameters of gravity a) quickly; b) for sure; c) on a maneuvering object.
And if a) and b) it is still theoretically possible to somehow fight while in the laboratory on a solid surface, then c) in my opinion it becomes an insurmountable (well, or it is not clear to me how to overcome) task. Indeed, all these measuring instruments, inertial in nature, must not only somehow abstract from the actual useful movement, but also from the effects of uneven environmental resistance. For example, air and water. Those. the object will also shake during movement. How to measure gravity with high accuracy on a moving object?
In addition, the acceleration of gravity, i.e. The objective characteristic of gravity at a given point depends not only on latitude and longitude, i.e. from the coordinates on the surface of our geoid, but also from the height above this same geoid. Therefore, somehow there is very little information. There is little information about the technique, and for this technique.
To put it mildly, a very strange method for determining coordinates.

[fruit_cake]

that people do not invent, they immediately begin to use it to destroy other people

[Shuttle]

Quote: fruit_cake

that people do not invent, they immediately begin to use it to destroy other people

One way or another, but a little less everything that people invent in one way or another serves either to destroy some people by others, or to protect some people from destruction by others. Moreover, the first and second are often difficult to distinguish among themselves.

[geologist]

To the question of the physics teacher about color television, I fantasized that the picture was divided into all the colors of the rainbow, and then mixed. He said that in principle it is correct, but they use not hundreds of shades, but only 3 colors. So in this article. In principle, everything is correct, but somewhat sophisticated.

[ender]

Apparently, everything is very bad with "glonass", if such projects have already gone

[Ehanatone]

Bullshit:
engraving on the surface of the earth is more than enough, if only because of different densities of nature! ...

[iouris]

While the enemy is preparing to strike, we change the terrain. And manually!

[Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock]

A very complex physical and mathematical model ... especially, the implementation in "hardware" ...
especially, I have doubts about the fact that the gravitational constant (maybe) is not very constant, as it turns out ... The last measurement of G, the so-called constant, which stands for gravitational attraction between two objects, produced a result higher than the current official value. In addition, there is a possibility that G remains a constant, but is measured with different accuracy
The accuracy of measurements of the gravitational constant is several orders of magnitude lower than the accuracy of measurements of other physical quantities.

[fruit_cake]

in conditions when your satellite can be destroyed by destruction by a rocket or laser, any means become good

[iouris]

I think that not so much the accuracy of measuring g, but sensitivity is important here.

[Carib]

Cool cut. So long to do, or the donkey will die (something more interesting and easier to come up with), or the sultan will die (the president will be re-elected), or the grandchildren will grow from the performers, and then the grass will not grow ...

[faterdom]

Quote: Vladimir16

Does the gravity in the Kremlin differ from the gravity in Sochi by a "small percentage"?

But didn’t you notice that in Sochi, foreign leaders come to Putin more and more often than to the Kremlin. Putin is the same (a constant, such as the Boltzmann constant or the Avogadro number), foreign leaders ... well, not such a constant as Putin, but nonetheless ... also to some extent. Means what?
That's right: gravity is different. Or maybe even the speed of light in a vacuum, whether it is not remembered by night.

[Indifferent]

Outright lies! I won’t even comment! Is it on every rocket to carry a quantum computer? Gravity has anomalies just the opposite. In the ocean it is larger, but less over the Himalayas. And no one knows the reason for this!

[Shahno]

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

Quote: novobranets

-Walk, so walk. Moses said and led his people into the wilderness

And then he hit the empty GLASS on the sand and the poppies blossomed.
And the buzz continued!

Well, yesterday they told me that they were not aliens. And this desert is so Jewish

[yfast]

The fun part starts when they fade.

[iouris]

The idea is old, but sensors are the weakest point. It is unlikely that an industry that did not fit into the fifth economic order could master the production of micromechanical accelerometers and gyroscopes and could produce navigation gravimeters. And maybe, due to sanctions, the Russian Federation can already build navigation satellites?

[meidragon]

Before writing this, let me ask a question - did the writer even see the dimensions of a high-precision magnetometer used to compile magnetic field maps? I think he will be very surprised.

[Amur]

First they will make a gravitsapu with an pepelats, then they will catch a graviton and the thing is in the hat.

[Nikolay Strak]

Gravity is a variable quantity. It depends on many factors, including the thoughts of the actor, the state of Nature and the device for its determination. How to reduce all this at a certain moment and give an exact trace

[Basarev]

Sounds like an excuse. As if they want to somehow cover up the failure of Glonass - after all, as the sanctions were imposed, so the supply of electronics and stopped. The last stocks ran out and it turned out that without western components they could not create a satellite themselves. And the existing group is already running out of time.

[beregovs]

What is described in this article was implemented in the late 70s and early 80s. There were special gravimetric polygons, there was special equipment. The accuracy of determining the location of the order of 3,5 kmkm (95%). Given the modern capabilities of computer technology, we obtain higher accuracy. So again we blow dust from old designs. Fortunately, few people remember about this; one can pass off as new ideas

[DimaSh]

Respect! And I read everything and thought - well, really, no one will remember the Stan gravimeter. And top-secret gravimetric maps of the White Sea))) And there are plenty of divers on the site.

[ichudov]

This article is not informative, but nonetheless seems slightly insane. For example, how can an object in free fall (bomb, warhead) perceive changes in the gravitational field when free fall, by definition, means complete weightlessness and the absence of a sense of external gravity?

[Mainbeam]

based on the gravitational characteristics of surface areas of our planet

It seems like a April 1 joke.

Although ... I read the comments and thought that the inventors were at a dead end and they needed to cheer up. As someone said about the command "What? Where? When?" - "the sixth must be a fool" in order to sketch out versions in deadlock situations.

This, of course, not a "brainstorming", but laughed heartily.

[gridasov]

Everything is much simpler. It is necessary to apply algorithmic methods for combining data. At the same time, relative measurements of some initial data are nevertheless necessary in order to then build a system of variables in height, depth from the surface of the water, the earth, with respect to any key points of concentration of magnetic nodes on the surface of the Earth, etc. By the way, the Piri Reis map is to help. Unfortunately, the properties of a constant value of a number cannot be dispensed with. Moreover, fundamentally newly constructed induction devices are needed so that the recorded and scanned pulse can be immediately entered as mathematical data into a common system of algorithmically related data. Therefore, a fairy tale is a lie and a hint in it！

[tpocorp]

It is strange that no one remembered for pigeons and geese, they would have made the orientation in space both more accurate and cheaper

[Flash]

Sorry nonsense. Gravity, that is, gravity, cannot be measured directly, only by measuring the force of weight (school physics course 8th grade). In order for the weight force to be equal with high accuracy (and sooooo high precision is needed here), the object must be stationary relative to the Earth or move at a constant speed, or at least that its acceleration relative to the Earth would be known with the same level of accuracy. Acceleration can be defined as the second derivative of height (can be measured by a laser range finder)., The trouble is that determining the accuracy of the value of the first derivative (and even more so the second !!!!) of the function is much less than the accuracy of determining the value of the function itself. Learn high school physics. Why and to whom I write I do not know myself.

[Bash]

Maybe I'm not catching up with something, but the entire guidance system of ICBMs and their warheads has been based on such a gravity analysis system since the days of the Tsar-Pea. Satellite positioning in the mid-50s simply did not exist when the first ICBMs were designed, and I suppose it is impossible to aim them with an "optical sight" from the steppes of the Orenburg region to Washington. Now the components of such a guidance system are being intensively developed by the DPRK for its missile systems. Perhaps we are talking about a civilian or a broader, militarily, use of the system? For example, gravitational geolocation in transport, etc.?

[VladVlad]

About 30 years ago, a gravitational radar was developed that does not emit and detects moving objects by their gravitational mass. It can orient according to constant gravitational reference points that cannot be changed by anything. Selling a technical entity. Overpriced!

[Vladimir SHajkin]

For such positioning, it is necessary to determine the starting point, the so-called reference point, which, by definition, must be in the center of the Earth.
If GPS requires 3 intersecting bearings, then there are more gravitational bearings and this problem will not be solved in the coming years.

[V Cor]

The alarmists, damn it, have gathered. In geodesy there is such a concept - “deviation of a plumb line.” Those. the plumb line, simply put, deviates by a certain amount from the strict vertical at every point on the earth’s surface. Reasons: firstly, the Earth has the shape not of a sphere, but of a geoid, and secondly, each point has its own height from sea level, its own gradient of this height, any anomalies within the earth’s surface and the depth of their occurrence or their absence, and many more various factors. In this sense, each geodetic point is unique. We at the Department of Geodesy considered these issues a quarter of a century ago. It's all about the ability to collect and mathematically process gigantic amounts of data. Apparently, they are now approaching this possibility, since they have already spoken out loud. You can take any textbook on higher geodesy and look through it if you are interested.
PySy. Maybe I forgot something years ago, if there are professional surveyors, let them correct it. But mostly like that.

[IGR]

Algorithms don't change. Big Data just appeared