Armor for horse racing. Vienna Armory

162
Knights and armor. People are so arranged that the old, even the good, bothers them periodically, and they require novelty for themselves. All of this was also the case at jousting tournaments. That is how, by the beginning of the 15th century, a new kind of horse duel on spears was born in Germany, which over time became very popular. It is called rennen, that is - “horse racing”. It seems to have been invented by the Margrave Albercht of Brandenburg, who was a great lover of all kinds of military games. The goal of the fight seemed to be the same - to “break the spear” against the enemy’s tarch or to knock it out of the saddle, but now the art of controlling the horse has become an important thing, so a one-time fight has now turned into a series of duels, which were held at full gallop. At the same time, the spears spent on “refraction” should be replaced “on the move”.


Entrance to the Vienna building armory chambers of the palace of Hovburg.




According to the Gestech’s rules, after each collision, the knights besieged their horses and returned to the place from which they started the attack, that is, they were leaving. Here they rested for some time, and the squire at this time could correct their ammunition and give a new spear. All this took time, and the audience began to frankly get bored. Now there was simply no time left for boredom in the tournament! The essence of rennen was that the knights dispersed the horses, collided with each other, "broke the spears", then turned the horses and that spirit had galloped to their end of the lists, where "on the move" they took new spears and again rushed to attack their opponent. There could be three or more such arrivals. From these numerous “races” this kind of tournament was called “horse racing”!


Rennzoig armor for rennen. Belonged to Philip I, son of Maximilian I (1478 - 1506). Leg closes dilzhe.


Moreover, under the new rules, a new armor was created. And if the former sttechzoyg was descended from armor with topfhelm helmets, then the new rennzeug was first created on the basis of classic Germanic Gothic armor of the 15th century, and secondly, the salad (sallet) became its helmet. Helmet without a visor, but having a viewing gap. It was then necessary to provide the fighter with a better flow of air and give him a greater view. After all, such a helmet could easily be pushed to the back of the head, and so walk in it without taking off, and only if necessary lower it onto the face.

Armor for horse racing. Vienna Armory

Helmet Salad. Nuremberg, end of the 15th century


At the same time, the frontal part of the tournament was strengthened, and fastenings were provided on it for the simplest decoration - a feather sultan, which replaced the old complex painted figures made of wood, plaster and papier-mâché. The front of the breastplate, like that of the Shteichtseig, had a lance hook, and the back had a bracket with a spear stop. But since the salad did not protect the lower part of the face, a metal chin was attached to the cuirass. To the belt of the cuirass was attached a “skirt” of movable stripes, which passed into the same plate-like movable leg gaiters. The back of the cuirass had such large cutouts that its shape resembled a cross. The “skirt” rested on the saddle with its lower end, as in the stojceig.


Armor of Elector Johann Son (1468 - 1532). Master: Mattes Deutsch, (1485 - 1495). Made in 1498. The tip of the tournament spear is at the bottom. In this photo you can clearly see the hook attached to the cuirass and used to hold the massive tournament spear. Please note that the helmet on this armor is salad. In addition, the armor is not understaffed. There is no protection for the left hand and chest tarch. The left leg closes further.


A special tarch or renntarch was also invented for rennzoig. They made it of wood and covered it with black bull skin with iron rims on the edges. He was firmly attached to the body, repeating the shape of the rider’s chest and left shoulder, and only at the very bottom was slightly bent forward. Its size depended on the type of competition. In the "exact" rennen and the Bundrennen, it was the size from neck to waist, and in the "hard" rennen, from the viewing slit on the helmet to the middle of the thigh. It was customary to fit him in cloth with the heraldic emblems of the owner or in a pattern similar to the patterns on the horse’s blanket.


Full tournament equipment of a knight, a member of the Rennes. On the horse’s head is a “blind shuffron”.


The spear, which they began to use in rennes, also became new. It was lighter than the old one, which used to knock horses out of place, and was made from soft wood. Its length was 380 cm, diameter 7 cm, and weight approximately 14 kg. Moreover, the tip began to be made sharp, not blunt. The protective shield, which used to be just a funnel-shaped disk, now has become even larger, has acquired elaborate outlines, and now, being worn on the spear shaft, covered already the entire right hand of the fighter, starting from the wrist and up to the shoulder. The knight controlled it with the help of a hook on its inner side, thus pointing the spear at the target.


The comforter was the same as that of the shtehtsoig, and was held on the head with straps. To protect the wrists of both hands, leather or metal bracers could be used, from the length of the hand to the elbow. In this case, we are faced with the comforter of Emperor Maximilian I.



Plate gloves of Emperor Maximilian I. Naturally, he wore them with combat rather than tournament armor, where he did not need them at all. Here they are shown as an example of the skill of the then gunsmiths.


In the XV and XVI centuries, an improved form of the field tournament appeared, which imitated, as before, the battle of two opposing knightly squads. As before, equestrian knights on the lists were built in a linear manner and attacked each other on command. The main difference now was armor, which underwent a strong change over time. Prior to this, the knights used ordinary combat armor with the only difference being that they were additionally screwed with chins reaching the viewing gap on the helmet, and also, if desired, a guard-bra - an additional strengthening of the left shoulder pad. The tournament armor differed from the combat arm only in that the upper edge of its bib had no thickening, and the cuirass had 2 — 3 holes for the screws with which the chin was fastened. The tournament spear was like a combat spear, only a little shorter, thicker, and with an elongated tip.

Now, for the tournaments, the stehren and rennen began to use the same, and specially designed for them horse equipment. The shape of the saddles and the reins, which now consisted of ordinary hemp ropes, sheathed with ribbons of the same color as horse blankets, became other. True, it happened that such reins were torn, and then the rider chased his horse with the help of a spear.


Shaffron from the knightly headset of Otto Heinrich, future elector of the Palatinate. The shuffron trim always matched the trim of the armor itself and the rest of the horse armor. always matches the same armor. Since the headset was made in the style of "Maximilian", that is, corrugated armor, this head piece was also made corrugated. Shaffron was adorned with engraved foliage, flowers, images of mythical creatures and trophies, which were made by the engraver from Augsburg by Daniel Hopfer, and the figure of a bear on his forehead hinted at the prince's motto: “MDZ” (“Over time”), as well as the 1516 date of the year. On the flip side you can see the Latin numerals "XXIII", which can mean a date - 1523. Which is more accurate - is unknown. Exhibited in the hall №3. Owner: Otto Heinrich son of Ruprecht Pfalz (1502 - 1559). Manufacturer: Coleman Helmschmid (1471 - 1532, Augsburg). Engraver: Daniel Hopfer (1471 - 1536, Augsburg)


Saddle from Otto Heinrich's headset. On one of the plates the Latin numerals "XXIII" are also stamped. Manufacturer: Coleman Helmschmid (1471 - 1532, Augsburg).


The horse was completely covered with leather blanket, over which they wore the same, but sewn from the canvas. Blankets covered the croup, neck and head of the horse to the very nostrils. The horse's face was protected by a steel forehead, often blind, that is, without openings for the eyes. It was a precaution against the unpredictable behavior of a horse after a clash between two riders. Interestingly, such shuffrons with no viewing holes appeared long before the rennen tournament. The earliest can be seen on the official seal of John I of Lorraine, dated approximately 1367 year.

By the way, the same gestech was still popular, but varieties of it appeared. There were three main types of gestech: the tournament of "high saddles", "general German" and "chained in armor".

To participate in the retehte of the "high saddles", the knight dressed in the shtehtsoig. At the same time, his legs were protected by armor, but were shod in low leather shoes made of thick leather with felt lining in socks and ankles. The rennen participants also used these shoes, since they did not need to protect their legs in this type of tournament. The main difference between this fight and all the others, as its name implies, was a saddle with high bows, similar to the one used at the mace tournament. The front bows of wood were trimmed around the edges with metal and were so high that they reached the rider's chest and in addition covered him with both legs. The saddle literally covered the rider's body so that he could not fall out of it under any circumstances. Moreover, some of these saddles had a handrail on his front bow, which could be grabbed if the rider lost his balance from a spear strike. The horse was clothed in blankets and a deaf steel forehead. The goal of the fight was to break his spear on the opponent’s shield.


Horseman and horse outfitted for the "German Gestech".



Another such horseman and horse outfitted for the Gestech.


The "General German" gestech was distinguished by the fact that the rider was dressed in a stekhtseig, but his legs were not protected by armor, only the withers were closed with a leather horse blanket, and the saddle did not have a back bow. Emperor Maximilian I, in order to better protect the animal, recommended putting on his chest a kind of bib - a pillow of a rough canvas stuffed with straw. The pillow was held by belts held under the front bow of the saddle. The cloak, that is, the same blanket, only from the fabric for the horse was mandatory. The goal of the duel is to throw the enemy off the horse with an exact blow of the spear on his tarch, which is why the rear bow was not saddle and was absent!

The Gestech “armored” from the two previous types of Gestech was distinguished by the fact that the knight also wore armor on his feet, protecting them from blows. That is, there was a little more metal on the fighting, that's all. Saddles are the same as in the “common German” gestech. The winner is the one who managed to break his spear on the enemy’s tarch, or to knock him out of the saddle.

For the old-style Italian duel, the rider should have worn Italian armor or German shtehtsoig. Shaffron might not be deaf. In this case, the horse's eyes were protected by a strong steel mesh. However, the main difference between the Italian Rennen and all the rest was not in the equipment of the fighting, but in the fact that the riders were cut by a wooden barrier. The knights, participants of the tournament, collapsed, turning to the barrier with their left side, so the spear hit the tarch at an angle and its impact was not so strong, and most importantly - the horses of the fighters could not collide at all.


Italian tournament with a barrier. From the Book of Tournaments of Emperor Maximilian I.



Hungarian tarch. Most likely belongs to one of the shields ordered by Emperor Maximilian I on the occasion of his reconciliation with King Bohemia and Hungary Vladislav in 1491. Exhibited in room number 3.


Around the 1550 of the year, the so-called “Hungarian tournament”, which, in addition to the fight, was also a costume masquerade, became very popular. At the Hungarian tournaments held in the same year by Archduke Ferdinand of Tyrol in the Czech Republic and Elector Augustus I in Dresden, the only new thing was the use of Hungarian tarches instead of German and Hungarian sabers, which, however, served not for battle, but for decoration. Actually, no one has yet changed the rules at this time in these tournaments. But then, over the armor, they began to put on the most fantastic clothes. Well, Rennes himself at different times and in different places simply underwent a lot of all kinds of changes, so great was the thirst for chivalry for diversity. So, in such an authoritative document as the book Frendal (c. 1480), it was reported that there were such types of rennen tournaments as: "mechanical" rennen; "Exact" rennen; the Bund Rennes "Hard" rennen; "Mixed" rennen, which was also called "rennen with a crowned spear"; as well as the “field” rennen. But about all these tournament excesses the story will be continued next time.

P.S. The author and the administration of the site express their heartfelt gratitude to the curators of the Vienna Armory, Ilse Jung and Florian Kugler for the opportunity to use her photographs.

To be continued ...
162 comments
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  1. +10
    8 September 2019 06: 16
    Thanks Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    . P.S. The author and the administration of the site express their heartfelt gratitude to the curators of the Vienna Armory, Ilse Jung and Florian Kugler for the opportunity to use her photographs.

    After reading the postscript, I became a little sad! After all, in Moscow we have a unique Droning Chamber, but from there you can only get a price list with prices from 6 wooden for a request for help in preparing for the article! Though throw a cry to raise money to organize a trip to the Kremlin Vyacheslav, to write an article about Russian armor and Russian fun fun!
    Regards, Vlad!
    1. +8
      8 September 2019 07: 29
      Good afternoon Vladislav,
      About the Gun,
      I’ll come after)))
      The storage there, many were, is such that it is extremely difficult to photograph, by the way, as in the Paris House of Disabled People.
      As far as I understand, only part of the collection is on display, I'm talking about Russian weapons, the rest of the territory is clogged with Ausburg silver dishes and carriages
      But there are well-published albums, and the “Historical Description of Clothing and Arms”, published by order of Nicholas I.
      But with fun it is more difficult: tournaments are an integral part of entertainment, this is not a sport (!), Of knights, i.e. feudal lords, relatively speaking.
      In our country feudalism developed beyond the limits of the use of armor, or at the very end of its use, therefore, such an institution did not arise, immediately to swords and duels.
      So our weapons are not for pampering, but for battle.
      Something like that.
      Best regards,
      Edward
      1. +5
        8 September 2019 08: 00
        Hello Edward!
        "Historical description of clothing and weapons", means Viskovatov?
        1. +5
          8 September 2019 08: 12
          Anton,
          good morning,
          of course!
      2. +7
        8 September 2019 08: 26
        The second half of the commentary fits well into the concept of "civilizational lagging behind" that you described in a series of articles. (Vlad, apparently, missed). This suggests an analogy with a child with a "difficult childhood": no time for toys.
        1. +5
          8 September 2019 09: 10
          Thank! very similar.
          not to toys.

          that's for sure.
          The presence of fights as a form of litigation, yes, as entertainment - no.
          It is interesting that Byzantium also borrowed the tournament under Alexei Komnin, having met him during the Crusades.
          As I understand it, to know before that, horse polo had fun.
          1. +4
            8 September 2019 09: 25
            Very interesting! A horse polo in Byzantium borrowed game or authentic?
            1. +2
              8 September 2019 14: 37
              Anton,
              Unfortunately, there is nothing about this in the comments to Anna Komnin, just information that Alexei Komnin injured his leg when Taktikiy fell on him. G.G. wrote about her. Timpani in the book "How the Byzantines lived", we also know that there were several stadiums or hippodromes in Constantinople, perhaps there were not only horse races. I don’t remember now, but it seems in the XNUMXth century there was a stadium within the Grand Palace, as if there was a small hippodrome in the Palace of St. Mama, there was also a monastery and a Russian courtyard. Perhaps the game was borrowed from the Turks (kok buru)?
              Or it may have arisen on its own, but there is no information about it ... or I have not met.
            2. +1
              23 September 2019 20: 51
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              A horse polo in Byzantium borrowed game or authentic?

              Borrowed, possibly from Sassanian Persia (in the Middle East horse polo is still very popular).
        2. +4
          8 September 2019 16: 10
          Anton, I know very well that knightly tournaments were not practiced in the Vladimir-Suzdal land! So, what to expect from the Kremlin's storerooms of the collections of tournament armor of Vienna, Berlin and Paris is not worth it. But there are knightly armor and weapons in the coffers of the Kremlin! Starting with Ivan III the Terrible, we presented European monarchs with sables and arctic foxes, we were given armor and weapons in return.
          By military fun, I meant our Russian fun. Is there really no collection of rogatins in the Faceted Chamber, even some of our princes did not shy from taking bears? Or boot daggers with which clubfoots finished off. After all, even the father of Ivan IV the Terrible, did not disdain to go out into the pen against the Master of the Russian Forests with such a knife! Or a game with a whip? Where instead of the “lash” a fighting whip (shoulder strap) acted. Continue further: horse racing, fist fights !!! All this, except for the latter, presupposed its equipment and equipment. Or don't we have horse harness collections?
          And now Anton, following your desire, we will roll back to Russia before the invasion of Batu. An analysis of Polish, Hungarian and Austrian sources more than once or twice confirms the participation of Russian princes in the chivalrous lists, both in horse and on foot !!! Moreover, these facts continue to take place in the 13th and 14th centuries. Only the heroes of the Galicia-Volyn principality and Polotsk participate in such games!
          But in Russia before the Mongol-Tatar invasion there were such fun games that Europeans did not dream of! For example, hunting with sails (cheetahs) !!!
          Now about the lag of the Russian lands in civilization! I am a supporter of the theory that we went through all the evolutionary stages in our own way! Not western or eastern. For example, at the turn of the 11th century, the time of advanced feudalism rules in Europe, we have most of the farmers free communists! In the 16th century, they had their first manufactory - we have "here you have a grandmother, St. George's Day!" In essence, economic, social, theological and, most importantly, geographical conditions prophesied Rus the role of the Commonwealth - on the border (outskirts) of Europe!
          But the Tatar-Mongol invasion broke all the rules and patterns! And two centuries after the collapse, Russia does not appear as a buffer on the outskirts of Europe or Asia, but as the third Rome - the successor of Byzantium! And ....? Aby only, so Muscovy absorbed not only the European layer of civilization, but also Asian, including Muslim! In fact, the Russian Empire of Peter the Great is the most multicultural kenetetalnoe power of the oikumena! And who are the outsiders here!
          For example, only one of Demidov’s “tricks”, “serf workers”, allowed Europe to be flooded with cheap iron! But only the alloy of "cast-iron barges" according to Chusova, Belaya and Ufa could not be repeated anywhere in the world, it was simply impossible !!! And such moments in our history are a dime a dozen!
          As a German friend used to say to me - “Rusyuff ffs do not make friends with world history, economics, and elementary logic — instead of translating forward, ffps will jump like hares”!
          However, he always recognized only one stroke of superiority for our brother - “after the ancient Greeks and Romans ffy, the greatest phyllosoffs”! True, he reduced all this to frost and vodka ”!!! But essentially he is right. Louis 14 and Peter I came to absolutism almost simultaneously, but what a different way !!! In the year 17 of the last century, we began to build Communism, but in the end it turned out ..... Although, to be honest, we were the first !!!
          Regards, Vlad!
          1. +2
            8 September 2019 16: 18
            As for the "civilizational" part of the commentary, this was exactly what Edward's articles were about. It turned out, however, as always, "the gray-haired magicians came running, besides, they hit with fumes" request
            1. +5
              8 September 2019 18: 29
              Anton, you won’t believe it. About five years ago they rubbed me on excursions in the National Park. Deer streams about the Slavs of the Gentiles! This is in the Urals, where the Russians settled four centuries ago! And Ermak Timofeevich, the Tobolsk lord tried to get in saints during the life of his comrades !!!
              So originality and exclusivity are two sides of the same coin .... The question is how to raise this!
              My thesis is “We are part of Europe and Asia, for both of them we will be both ours and strangers”! It’s like in the cartoon “We ourselves with a mustache” !!!
              1. +2
                8 September 2019 18: 41
                Why not believe it, I will! At most periodically from the guide "ears fade".
          2. +3
            8 September 2019 16: 23
            What a nice comment, Vladislav! I wish everyone here were like that ...
    2. +3
      8 September 2019 12: 03
      Good afternoon, Vlad!
      About thirty years ago, I would gladly have protected Olegyitch in the Armory and for free, now, alas, there are no longer any friends with whom I was friends. request
      By the way, take a look at "Sailors Returning to Ukraine ...", good people have corrected our karma. smile
  2. +6
    8 September 2019 07: 13
    Very informative article!
    Thanks Vyacheslav Olegovich.
    In June, in Kolomenskoye there was a fantastic festival “Knightly Tournament of St. George”,
    The largest medieval camp in Europe, etc.
    World-class tournament and technically superbly prepared.
    But I don’t have knowledge on tournaments, although the rules told in detail.
    The clashes were not decorative, in the second battle the horse was wounded immediately under the eye.
    There were injuries in foot tournaments.
    It’s a fantastic sight, it was hard to say, but a few thousand people.
    1. 0
      23 September 2019 20: 56
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      In June, in Kolomenskoye there was a fantastic festival “Knightly Tournament of St. George”,
      The largest medieval camp in Europe, etc.

      Relatively little is always gathered there (at least earlier) - everything is limited by the place of litigation and the stands; it was carried out quite far from the center of Moscow on purpose (Kolomenskoye is still close) and in recent years there have simply been very high ticket prices, and fences specifically do not allow you to see anything even from the neighboring hills. But the tournament is great.
      1. 0
        23 September 2019 22: 41
        Everything is free, I arrived with my son an hour before the start, no one was there, we stood right in front of the lists, everything at a glance. Plus, huge screens, when they got tired, went to eat, he "fought", there was a queue, unlike the "battles" for children on the Boulevards, they returned - sat on a hill and watched the foot battles. They were also duplicated on screens.
        And there were a lot of people, already somewhere in 5 they left the park, and people all arrived.
        1. 0
          27 September 2019 00: 33
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          Everything is free, I arrived with my son in an hour

          So this year we did everything in a new way, in past years this event was purely commercial and very expensive. And the performance was in the arena \ hippodrome in Kolomenskoye, right at the open amphitheater? generally excellent, did not expect this ...
          1. +1
            27 September 2019 08: 12
            Yes, the performance was at an open amphitheater, I was surprised when we got to such a cool place, I went because of a child myself, but I enjoyed it a lot. Plus the surroundings, and later, when they were already gone, they sat on a hill on the grass and watched foot fights on a huge screen.
            Maybe for free because it's anniversary? maybe the mayor was generous ... wink
  3. +2
    8 September 2019 07: 16
    14 kg lance weight?
    1. +7
      8 September 2019 07: 53
      Yes, a lot. Well, he was not held on an outstretched arm.
      1. +4
        8 September 2019 16: 20
        In the 11th - 12th century. The thickness of a combat spear is 5-6 cm, length is 3-3,25 meters!
        In the 13-14 centuries. The thickness of the knight's spear of variable thickness from 6 to 10 cm, length up to 3,5 meters. Plus an iron casing, arm protection up to 28 cm. And a counterweight! All this happiness could weigh 10-12 pounds!
        In the 15th century. The thickness of some specimens reaches 12 cm, the length is 4 meters + shackles, flap, counterweight and tip !!! If not for a pound of weight !!! But the spear could be decorated with spikes or other fittings!
        Regards, Vlad!
  4. +4
    8 September 2019 07: 47
    Here I think: "soft wood" - is this from the English softwood mean?
    That is, it turns out conifers?

    And what was the selection of trees of poorer age when they only reached 7 cm in diameter?
    1. +5
      8 September 2019 08: 07
      In one of the articles of this cycle, V.O. mentioned that the shafts of tournament copies were made from poplar.
      1. +5
        8 September 2019 08: 21
        Could. And it grows fast and there are few knots. But it breaks, respectively, quickly.
        1. +6
          8 September 2019 08: 32
          This is the point! It's about tournament weapons. "Break the spear" is the main ma'am of knightly tournaments.
  5. +4
    8 September 2019 08: 59
    Thank you, it was very interesting to read, and even look at high-quality photos. I’m waiting from the author of a similar article about Russian armor and weapons ..
  6. +5
    8 September 2019 09: 05
    Good day to all the kamarads hi
    ,,, gloves certainly amaze and fascinate. good Here I looked, I looked and tried on straight hands stretch smile
    1. +6
      8 September 2019 09: 29
      Greetings, Sergey!
      You're just a "sinister Kato Knight"! laughing drinks
      1. +4
        8 September 2019 11: 33
        3x3zsave (Anton) Today, 10: 29

        ,,,good movie good
        1. +3
          8 September 2019 11: 47
          Alas, I didn’t look request , in childhood, the book was.
      2. +5
        8 September 2019 12: 08
        Anton, hello! I would venture to congratulate you personally on the Day of the Tankman, remembering the unforgettable here, among my "Antonov Tank" with bacchantes. soldier drinks
        1. +5
          8 September 2019 12: 38
          Sea Cat (Constantine) Today, 13: 08
          ,,, extremism, Nazism, pornography belay and all in one picture bully
          1. +4
            8 September 2019 12: 53
            I agree with everything, but you will not send me extremism! am
          2. +3
            8 September 2019 12: 57
            Yeah, I hope not Anastasia moderates today.
          3. +1
            23 September 2019 20: 59
            Quote: bubalik
            , extremism, Nazism, pornography and all in one picture

            Sergei, you are mistaken, there is nothing here on any point - no extremism at all, not a single Nazi symbol appears, and there is not enough image for pornography. Therefore, nothing can be "sewn"!
            1. 0
              23 September 2019 21: 23
              hi ,,,late laughing Konstantin, on two counts pleaded guilty belay
        2. +4
          8 September 2019 12: 44
          Thank you, Konstantin! Particularly impressive is the number on the tank and tactical coloring! I’m embarrassed to ask, from which LGBT resource did you reverse the picture? laughing drinks
          1. +4
            8 September 2019 12: 52
            from which LGBT resource did you reverse the picture?


            An article about the new full dress of the Bundeswehr. What, something is wrong? Confused by the zodiac sign "Pisces" on the tower? laughing So this is not for me, I am on the horoscope "Aries". And in the hatch sticks out the Minister of Defense of Germany, obviously. request
            1. +3
              8 September 2019 13: 01
              Confused by the glamorous color of the tank and the numerical symbol above the indicated community.
              1. +3
                8 September 2019 13: 16
                What can you do, European tolerance ... request
                1. +5
                  8 September 2019 13: 24
                  And further.
                  "Why do men like women in leather, lacquer and latex?
                  Because they smell like a new car. "
                  1. +2
                    8 September 2019 14: 18
                    So such ladies like only a certain category of men. wink You already mentioned this community here.
  7. +6
    8 September 2019 11: 04
    As I understand it, the knight did not pass injuries in any case.
    Even if he was not defeated. Shocks, blows, a fall from a horse, shell shock from the fact that hammering on the armor ...
    There were healthy guys. Heroes, not us)
    Thank you for the interesting material.
    1. +7
      8 September 2019 14: 44
      With injuries definitely.
      Above I wrote about the modern jousting tournament.
      In Kolomenskoye, between horse-drawn clashes, pedestrians were chopped down, also in equipment for pedestrian tournaments. Injury after injury!
      Was amazed.
      Horses struck - all heavyweights.
      One reenactor, an equestrian coach himself, has a stable, from Belarus, he himself maintains a "knightly" horse. As I understand it, keeping his pleasure is not cheap at all.
      Horses are real animals, after the first blow, the riders disperse and wait for the team to fight, but the horses are so excited that they really are eager for battle, stand on their hind legs.
      Comparison with tanks is very appropriate.
  8. +6
    8 September 2019 11: 52
    Friends, greetings to all and congratulations on my holiday - Tankista Day! drinks

    Vyacheslav Olegovich, as always, a special thanks! hi
    The article is directly in the topic for today - we are all shrouded in armor, so there is something in us tankmen too, I’m not afraid of this word - chivalrous. wink
    1. +5
      8 September 2019 14: 45
      An article in the topic!
      Happy Tanker Day!
  9. +6
    8 September 2019 12: 27
    ,,, bullshit all this stop so, for a show off armor done feel but they fought with great monsters belay
    ,,, whether the knights are small or the snails are large laughing


  10. +3
    8 September 2019 15: 20
    Quote: Destiny
    I am waiting from the author of a similar article about Russian armor and weapons.

    Do not wait! It is impossible to write it. Here was an article about Russian weapons in a series of articles about the era of 1050-1350. There was a list of references. And illustrations. That’s all I managed to get. Do you need an article without interesting photos? Then take Medvedev's 1956 article and ... everything is there. Nothing is out of date. But I personally am something the same as, for example, I simply can’t do this material about tournament armor. The text - yes, perhaps. No photo. They are simply not there!
  11. +5
    8 September 2019 15: 23
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    After reading the postscript, I became a little sad!

    Yes, they didn’t ask for a penny from me or from the editors of the site!
    1. 0
      23 September 2019 21: 01
      Quote: kalibr
      Yes, they didn’t ask for a penny from me or from the editors of the site!

      Ooooh, what evil evil Nazis and greedy capitalists are in Austria!
  12. +3
    8 September 2019 16: 20
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    You're just a "sinister Kato Knight"!

    Some books were read as a child, Anton. True, I first read "Mio, my Mio" in the PIONEER magazine in 1965. It seems ... Or a BOSTER? Now, the memory is already starting to fail ...
    1. +2
      8 September 2019 19: 53
      And my Mio my Mio did not enter the soul! I re-read it several times, but in no way.
      hi
  13. +2
    8 September 2019 17: 43
    Great article, it was interesting. A small correction - the helmet is called not "salad" (brr), but "chelata" - this is an Italian helmet (and even in German it is called "chelede"). So it goes.
    1. +5
      8 September 2019 18: 23
      In German it is called Schaller
      French - salade
      Spanish - ensalada
      There are also Celate, Celata, Salet, Salett.
      A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in All Countries and in All Times.
      So it goes.
  14. +4
    8 September 2019 17: 47
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    This is the point! It's about tournament weapons. "Break the spear" is the main ma'am of knightly tournaments.

    and not even just a meme. If I don’t confuse anything, Henry the 8th was hacked at the tournament precisely because of the spear - supposedly a sliver after the opponent broke it flew into his eye, for he had no helmet. I would not want to be in his place.
    1. +4
      8 September 2019 18: 10
      I would not want to be in his place.


      It does not threaten you, colleague hi . Like me, actually. wink
      1. +2
        8 September 2019 18: 24
        Catfish
        Today, 19

        ,,, no arguing against tankers request , and if it is also an "Antonov" tank belay , everything ,,, amba laughing
        ,
      2. +4
        8 September 2019 18: 54
        Choi ?! On the quadric, drin under the arm and, well, Ryazan Galahad spread rot !!! laughing
        1. +1
          8 September 2019 19: 06
          Well, you are impudent, Anton! Just drin under the arm! laughing There is something more serious here. wink And then I mean that none of us threatens to become "Henry the eighth, Jacob the first, or even Ivan the fourth," we sit on our chairs and the throne does not threaten anyone. request
          1. +3
            8 September 2019 19: 20
            And I always said that I was a jester, an ernik and a miserable. Nefig I was to impose a tank. Now pay.
            Yes, so, in the meantime, in the Ryazan outback there was another truck from the "Armata"? You can attach a quadric to the face so that oncoming "Belarusians" are not afraid. laughing
            1. 0
              8 September 2019 20: 07
              And you are vindictive as a young lady, Anton. They said themselves that they forgave me all the tropical "Antonov tanks" for "publishing" a shit with Baba Yaga, and why, again, "how much money for a fish"?
              And the "Belarusians" themselves shy away from me, the local head of the former collective farm has the same quadric. I think about the truck on the face, it's a good idea, you need to be different from the local leadership. bully
              1. +1
                8 September 2019 20: 36
                No, I'm a good friendly doggie, I just don’t like it when they encroach on my nature. You, nowadays, have had a relapse, well, you have raked to the extent not exceeding the law on self-defense. The last, I note separately! laughing
                1. +1
                  8 September 2019 20: 43
                  The natural question about the "attempt on nature": when, where and how? It's also interesting to know about the "relapse", what is it actually? Well, what about "ogrebli" is not a language for communication, we are not enemies, or I am mistaken.
                  1. +1
                    8 September 2019 21: 19
                    Naturally, you are not mistaken!
                    But I promised that for attracting me to the nickname change, all those involved will have their own? And my nickname, I’ve been living with him for 15 years, my younger one is less ...
                    1. +1
                      8 September 2019 21: 26
                      Sly, Anton.
                      And what about this:
                      They themselves said that they forgave me all the tropical "Antonov tanks" for "publishing" the shit with Baba Yaga

                      And?
    2. +4
      8 September 2019 18: 12
      Not quite so: Henry 1559 died at the 2 tournament of the year. And he was wearing a helmet! But the fragment of the spear threw away the visor, and since the spear flew into chips, one of the sharp chips fell into his eye. Well, blood poisoning and the end!
      1. +2
        8 September 2019 20: 18
        Henry II himself insisted on a re-engagement with the Earl of Montgomery. So he insisted on his head.

        "Through the ear, shoulder and eye
        Three kings perished with us.
        Through ear, eye and shoulder
        We have a lack of three kings "(c).
    3. +4
      8 September 2019 18: 49
      Henry II, and died ten days later, from sepsis. However, like Richard the Lionheart, 350 years before him.
  15. +5
    8 September 2019 18: 14
    Quote: Nadir Shah
    "salad" (brr), and "chelata"

    Salad - a spelling adopted in the weapons science of Russia. In France, this is Salle, Germany - Schaller, in Italy - chelate ...
  16. +4
    8 September 2019 18: 21
    Dear Anton! Now in Japan there is a new trend: they make models that seem to be like world wars. But ... they belong to parallel realities !!! Crews ... from schoolgirls-girls (even comics are written about the adventures of fascist girls from the parallel world!), And different there ... The emblems on the tanks are the most fantastic. They have their own states, their own wars ... Their camouflage ... The colors are pink and blue ... Only tanks ... of our time. And under it sets of decals (!), Types of coloring, figures are already issued ... sorry I don’t read in Japanese and translation is very difficult. But what I know ... oh ... fantasy without borders. But this will be an article ...
    1. +3
      8 September 2019 18: 33
      Fascist girls with big eyes and an immense bust ... Well, Japan gives ... I would post some of the hentai here, but I'm afraid they will be banned to hell. wassat
      1. +4
        8 September 2019 18: 38
        Would lay out


        ,,, such can feel combat vehicle crew winked
        1. +3
          8 September 2019 19: 26
          Strong! Is it already Baikal?
      2. +4
        8 September 2019 18: 39
        There will be an article ... do not worry! Although not soon.
        1. +2
          8 September 2019 18: 41
          Nothing, be patient! For the sake of such an extra year, you can smoke the sky. wink
      3. +4
        8 September 2019 19: 08
        Banned, as banned!
        Hold on to the "framework", Messire! This is a decent publication, not some Fanning Times!
        1. +3
          8 September 2019 20: 11
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Banned, as banned!
          Hold on to the "framework", Messire! This is a decent publication, not some Fanning Times!

          Given that the first time we were banned by Nikolai (Mikado) only for this —-

          I think we are all stuck !!!
          So, you need to start humming -
          “Our proud Varangian does not surrender to the enemy!
          No one wants mercy! ”
          1. +1
            8 September 2019 20: 24
            Of the Lord ... And here is WHAT?
            1. +3
              8 September 2019 20: 31
              Catfish
              Today, 21: 24

              ,,, an allusion to the fairy tale "Three Fat Men", which tells about the revolution raised by the poor against the rich in the country. bully
            2. +4
              8 September 2019 20: 42
              Quote: Sea Cat
              Of the Lord ... And here is WHAT?

              This is a terrible secret! Which no one knows !!!
              The most interesting thing is that the Doctor’s picture, on which the dog makes the red cat an enema, was left. So draw your own conclusions !!!
              1. +1
                8 September 2019 21: 16
                Conclusions are already present, but I will not voice it. Scary, and night in the yard ...
              2. +3
                8 September 2019 21: 31
                Damn, the Doctor has become an artifact! We often refer to him, no one has asked yet: "Who is this ?!"
                1. +3
                  8 September 2019 21: 38
                  ,, and who is this, "Doctor"?
                  1. +4
                    8 September 2019 22: 03
                    Nickname "avva2012", not banned, just left.
          2. +3
            8 September 2019 21: 26
            Vlad! I know why you were banned. I will be banned for another, probably ...
        2. +2
          8 September 2019 20: 22
          I agree - "This is not like something for you, but something like that!" (FROM)
    2. +2
      8 September 2019 19: 02
      Stunned! I actually try to be aware of all kinds of non-conformist cultural phenomena, but somehow I missed it. Very interesting! I'll wait for the material. Just beckon, please, otherwise you have a lot of work.
      1. +3
        8 September 2019 19: 33
        Anton! Beacon, but not soon! Now 6 materials are being moderated and 8 more are in my archive. And I'm not writing this topic now. So your park may end. And besides, you don't get Japanese magazines, but I get them every month. Hence "all the cases".
        1. +3
          8 September 2019 19: 48
          Yes, so be it, Vyacheslav Olegovich! If only there were no "hamsters"! You see, even if I disagree with you in some assessments of our recent common past, this is a "kindergarten". "Let's put Slavik in a corner, because he said that Santa Claus is not real"
  17. +2
    8 September 2019 18: 55
    Quote: Sea Cat
    I would not want to be in his place.


    It does not threaten you, colleague hi . Like me, actually. wink

    sad huh : D, on the other hand, the buhurts themselves are not particularly interesting to me, but I have a thought to learn fencing. And in every way better than at the tournament with a spear in the snout: D
    1. +2
      8 September 2019 19: 55
      As a guy named Gadfly said (approximate quote): "... brought not peace, but a sword," but I prefer pistols! "
      Here I agree with him somewhere, a gun is in any case better than "dead" iron. Although this is my purely personal opinion and I do not insist on it.
      1. +3
        8 September 2019 22: 20
        "Cz 75" at 25 meters is a great thing! Some will say that the Glock is better, but I prefer the Czech!
        1. +2
          8 September 2019 22: 35
          Our doctor, Eugene and Soul-lover, will naturally say that the Glock is the best. I personally prefer R.38, but here, as they say, to each his own. "Who loves watermelon and who loves pork cartilage" (C)
          And "Czech", by the way, he was born from the same John Moses, and "Glock" too ...
    2. +4
      8 September 2019 20: 00
      Learn historical fencing !?
      There, the paragraph, how complicated it is! To me, in the second match, my nose was broken. My shield. You are ready?
  18. +1
    8 September 2019 18: 56
    Quote: Undecim
    In German it is called Schaller
    French - salade
    Spanish - ensalada
    There are also Celate, Celata, Salet, Salett.
    A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in All Countries and in All Times.
    So it goes.

    this is not true, different things. Since it is Italian, it is called "celata / celate", chelata. The Germans call it "tschelede", chelede. As it is called by the frogs and gishpants, it does not matter at all, since they never really had it.
    1. +3
      8 September 2019 19: 29
      These are not different things. They are one and the same thing. Like the English salad. And show where his Germans call Celeda today.
      And about "tschelede" and Schaller, read the classics so as not to disorient the audience.
      For example - Oakeshott Ewart. European Weapons and Armor: From the Renaissance to the Industrial Revolution.
      1. +2
        9 September 2019 14: 05
        ... I dare to assume recourse that in German the Italian “celata” was transcribed from the eternity in the form of the German “tschelede”, but later little by little it earned the current look of the German “schaller”.


        European Weapons and Armor: From the Renaissance to the Industrial Revolution
        1. +4
          9 September 2019 14: 10
          There is nothing to suppose, Oakeshott has written about this directly.
          1. +3
            9 September 2019 20: 17

            I don’t even remember the Urals or the Dnieper! In fact, the difference is minimal! But still handsome !!!
            1. +3
              9 September 2019 20: 33
              It’s the Urals or the Dnieper!
              ,,, and if both of them are not? tongue
              1. +4
                10 September 2019 04: 33
                Dear Sergey, I come from the Urals and in my town the Dnieper never happened! It is possible that Irbit and Izhevsk were at hand! Smiled from childhood impressions the most “cool bike” - Tula!
                hi
                1. +1
                  10 September 2019 09: 22
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka (Vladislav)
                  hi
                  Smiled from childhood impressions the most “cool bike” - Tula!
                  ... and I drove on this lol
            2. +3
              9 September 2019 21: 48
              Judging by the pendulum short-link fork of the front wheel and the pendulum long-link fork - the rear - this is not the Dnieper or the Urals, but the first K-750s of 1958 of the Kiev Motorcycle Plant.
              1. +3
                10 September 2019 04: 35
                Well, then, intuitively, Victor Nikolaevich pleased you!
                Eco at random and your fellow countryman!
                But this is definitely mine!

    2. +4
      8 September 2019 19: 33
      I suppose right away: you are tormented with butting with Viktor Nikolayevich, although I managed to some extent. Since then, I respect, immensely respected by me, man.
      Good luck!
      1. +6
        8 September 2019 20: 20
        Why butt me. You just need to lay out the source where the German Schaller is called tschelede.

        Deutsche sounder auf Dürers Ritter, Tod und Teufel (1513).
        That's when in the text instead of Schaller there will be tschelede - we continue the discussion.
        1. +2
          8 September 2019 20: 26
          Anton is veiledly hinting at the horns. I wonder whose ...? laughing
          1. +2
            8 September 2019 20: 44
            These are not horns, these are tusks!
            "Not everything that sticks out outside has a plicative function, sometimes it's an asteroid hazard sensor" (this is already mine)
            1. +2
              8 September 2019 20: 48
              I can imagine butting walruses, a funny sight. laughing
              1. +2
                8 September 2019 20: 54
                ,,,in good and the tank will probably blow belayeasy what
                Vyacheslav Olegovich would only find out what kind of helmet and armor in an overseas miracle lol
                1. +1
                  8 September 2019 21: 10
                  That's right! Surely the Japanese times of the last big war for sure. laughing
                2. +4
                  8 September 2019 22: 06
                  This is a remake. A modern replica of the battle elephant armor. Located in the British Stratford Armouries Museum. The museum has a large exposition of military trophies from India, in particular - captured in wars with Tipu Sultan, the ruler of the Indian state of Mysore with the capital in Seringapatama. So the roots of this exhibit are in India.
              2. +2
                8 September 2019 21: 03
                What walruses? Walruses do not have a tusk; walruses have a tusk. I'm talking about mammoths! You will grow weaker, Konstantin, my "viburnum" is cooler than your "Jamaican tank" (you just need to change the oil)
                1. +2
                  8 September 2019 21: 14
                  Walruses still have a tusk.
                  I'm talking about mammoths!
                  But this is strong! I believe that Vik Nikolaitch will appreciate the "deflection". good
                  Speaking of tanks - it’s more likely yours than mine, I’ve developed the idea here in the wings. request
          2. +3
            8 September 2019 21: 11
            Butting can be done without horns, but in order to wear horns, it is not necessary to butt.
            1. +1
              8 September 2019 21: 20
              An extremely correct observation. I immediately remembered the movie "Divorce in Italian". laughing
              1. +2
                8 September 2019 22: 52
                And someone put a minus. Not otherwise - a cuckold.
                1. +3
                  8 September 2019 23: 00
                  God marks the assault, in this case horns. So, by nightfall, the hamsters crawled here. And you, Vick, know too much, but they don’t like it, it’s very insulting to them, so they quietly undermine. You are a trifle, but they are pleased.
                  "I'm not out of envy, I'm so, for the sake of justice and nothing more." (FROM)
                  Human weaknesses, it’s so understandable ... How in the communal kitchen to spit a neighbor in a saucepan. This is indestructible as long as the two-legged tribe exists. drinks
                  1. +3
                    8 September 2019 23: 02
                    Yeah - a hamster - a cuckold is something. You can only sympathize.
                    1. +3
                      8 September 2019 23: 08
                      The most sincere sympathy for all rodents is shown by my cat Laki - he simply crushes them on the spot so that the poor fellows would not suffer and do not embarrass the zoologists with their horns. laughing

                      I am sending an original portrait. smile
                      1. +4
                        8 September 2019 23: 26
                        This is not a cat - this is already a cat!
                      2. +3
                        8 September 2019 23: 45
                        A gangster and a war criminal, for nothing, whatever his name is Lucky Luchno. smile
                      3. +1
                        9 September 2019 20: 20
                        Your cat is gorgeous!
                      4. 0
                        9 September 2019 22: 32
                        Thank you, Vyacheslav, now I’ll go and give him your words. smile
        2. +3
          8 September 2019 21: 06
          Yes, especially since the engraving of Dürer, and he knew this, made a lot of sketches for the design of armor.
  19. +2
    8 September 2019 19: 34
    Quote: Sea Cat
    For the sake of such an extra year

    You won’t have to wait a year. A month - no more!
  20. +1
    8 September 2019 20: 56
    Quote: Sea Cat
    As a guy named Gadfly said (approximate quote): "... brought not peace, but a sword," but I prefer pistols! "
    Here I agree with him somewhere, a gun is in any case better than "dead" iron. Although this is my purely personal opinion and I do not insist on it.

    on the one hand, yes. On the other hand, at close range, if a hand-to-hand fighter gets to the enemy, he will not leave him a chance, so I would say that the combination "pistol + sword" would be the best choice.
    1. +2
      8 September 2019 21: 04
      The Tower Collection has the Heinrich 8 sword - a combination of a sword and a gun. But most likely it was never used in battle and was considered as a curiosity!
      1. +1
        8 September 2019 22: 47
        I have not heard about a sword with a gun. With a broadsword, even with a battle ax - please, but with a sword for the first time.
        1. +3
          8 September 2019 23: 25
          In 2009, the Tower opened an exhibition dedicated to the 500th anniversary of the accession to the throne of Henry VIII. The exhibition occupied three floors of weapons, armor and parts of military equipment associated with Henry VIII. But the sword with the gun was not there. There was a mace with a gun.

          With her, Henry, according to legend, walked the streets of London.
          Mistaken, apparently, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
          1. +1
            8 September 2019 23: 43
            And he is not trilateral, by accident. Very similar. It is a pity there are no photos of the mace completely and the castle is not visible. What worked there for the descent?
            1. +4
              9 September 2019 00: 09

              Tricuspid. There are no castles as such. Manual ignition, as in a primitive self-propelled gun.
              1. +4
                9 September 2019 00: 12
                There is a four-barreled version.

                The seed hole is clearly visible.
                1. +1
                  9 September 2019 00: 34
                  This means that it can be fired in one gulp, at least one barrel will work. Well, the war was earlier ... After all, a bullet from such a homemade gun and leather tunic is unlikely to penetrate, but noise and smoke ...
    2. +2
      8 September 2019 21: 06
      In one book, Andrey Kruz read the following epitaph to "hand-to-hand fighters": "The most advanced hand-to-hand fighter in our brigade was put in a hospital bed for two months by a thirteen-year-old girl who knew where her father was hiding his machine gun." So it goes... smile
  21. +1
    8 September 2019 20: 58
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Learn historical fencing !?
    There, the paragraph, how complicated it is! To me, in the second match, my nose was broken. My shield. You are ready?

    : D to a broken nose - hardly. : D but in general I know several sections, there they give fake objects to beginners, so as not to injure themselves, and if a person decided to play for real - well, then who is the judge to him? However, I understand that you can rake and all that, so , if I’ll do it all the same, I’ll try to survive somehow: D
  22. +1
    8 September 2019 21: 10
    He said so in the movie! I love this phrase and that old Soviet film.
  23. +2
    8 September 2019 21: 22
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    "Let's put Slavik in a corner, because he said that Santa Claus is not real"

    This is why, by the way, I love comments in English magazines - I will not say on the sites - stupid, like we were allowed to use computers - but in magazines ... As the article came out, so then it begins: Today I read with great joy material ... thanks to the author for giving me the opportunity to get to know each other, wasting my time ... it is interestingly written ... but I was surprised why the respected author limited himself to giving only such facts, why he did not use the monograph ... a link to the article in the journal, no data on ... thus the conclusions are lightweight ... "That's it! And here -" I don't like it! Author -! And he taught the history of the Communist Party ... and a Japanese / English spy, and eats grants, and it is necessary to check for what money he travels abroad ... And where about the article? About links to the memoirs of Krupskaya, to the archives of the Moscow region, to ... to ... at least to the journal Voprosy istorii. In the best case, the best - links to the "Live Journal" or, again, VO. I personally find it funny. It would be better if they immediately wrote to the Penza FSB. There are my former students and just acquaintances - let them laugh ... Therefore, Anton, I don't even pay attention to it. I only answer so that there are clicks from the authors. This is always useful for the site and it's not difficult. You know to whom you will show your finger and ... So here it is. And opinions ... albeit different, people died so that people could express them freely. Like-mindedness is the worst of public evils!
    1. +2
      8 September 2019 21: 53
      I am wondering, am I on the list of statistical errors?
  24. +1
    8 September 2019 21: 30
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    And my Mio my Mio did not enter the soul! I re-read it several times, but in no way.

    When did you read and at what age? My granddaughter also said: scary and stupid.
    1. +2
      8 September 2019 21: 56
      The only political pamphlet from Lindgren, and that is very controversial.
  25. +4
    8 September 2019 21: 40
    Funny ... Driving across France to the castle of Carcassonne. I asked the guide to give way and tell "about the knights". The guide Anya turned out to be smart, she did not fix the place and she listened to me with pleasure. But ... after my lecture one tourist comes up and says that my story completely turned her knowledge around. That she travels every year and from the stories of the guides, she learned that the knights did everything they needed in armor, without taking them off, and in such a sad state they mounted a horse and rode and fought, and their swords weighed 15 or more kg. Who and where is telling this and where does it come from? I would have known - I cut off my ears along with my tongues. By the way, a new textbook on Russian history for the 6th grade has been published. And again ... the knights with a wedge, inside the infantry in armor with axes ... and everyone drowned (Battle of the Ice). But in all the annals, in all the allies of the order, a WONDER is a WONDER. Where did the Chudi get armor and axes? More axes, okay ... but armor. And the armor in 1242 !!! Well, what to do with them?
    1. +3
      8 September 2019 21: 46
      - ears cut off along with tongues.
      ,,, and then why? lol so that the "noodles" do not hang?
      1. +3
        9 September 2019 06: 16
        Really! Ears can be left! Tongues ... hammered on the fingers!
    2. +3
      8 September 2019 22: 44
      Yes, nothing is needed, Olegitch, they themselves will die. After all, you can’t redo them, and you don’t need to bury your hands on them, others will crawl out of the caves, this is an indestructible tribe. Unfortunately. request
  26. +1
    8 September 2019 23: 37
    Quote: kalibr
    The Tower Collection has the Heinrich 8 sword - a combination of a sword and a gun. But most likely it was never used in battle and was considered as a curiosity!

    for sure (although, of course, who knows, but still I also think that it was not used in battle). On the other hand, guns with bayonet mounts / bayonets are practically the same. Especially when the blades were inserted into the barrel.
  27. +2
    8 September 2019 23: 38
    Quote: Sea Cat
    I have not heard about a sword with a gun. With a broadsword, even with a battle ax - please, but with a sword for the first time.

    I’m not specifically, but in general, as a combination (personally, I would prefer shamshir even). And even that, in fact, we can recall that the gun and saber / sword were the standard for officers for a long time, even when there were no melee units left.
  28. +2
    9 September 2019 06: 13
    This is a museum in Baltimore, if I am not mistaken. The Higgins Museum. But it is now closed.
  29. +2
    9 September 2019 06: 14
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    I am wondering, am I on the list of statistical errors?

    You are in 20%
  30. +2
    9 September 2019 06: 20
    I don’t know about the exhibition. I know about the inventory. In some of my books there is even a link ... I can see.
  31. +2
    9 September 2019 06: 25
    Quote: Sea Cat
    I am sending an original portrait.

    And you - my Barsya, for dating. Yesterday at the cottage I set a record. I caught 8 mice and bit off everyone's head!
    1. 0
      10 September 2019 15: 12
      Is she on the roof of her private house? "People live richly"! I have a personal record - a fight with a hefty rat, victory is ours, but she tore the cat's face hard, treated it later.)))
  32. +1
    9 September 2019 13: 29
    No, one by one. You turn, slide the lid and bring the wick ...
    1. +1
      10 September 2019 15: 14
      The fights were interesting then, it was possible to calmly "move the caps and bring the wicks" without risking to be completely killed right there.
      1. +1
        11 September 2019 15: 28
        Not only that, it was possible to leave the battle ... to sit by the tent, eat, drink and again into business. And it was possible ... to withdraw your squad from the battle without explanation.
        1. 0
          11 September 2019 15: 41
          withdraw your squad from the battle without explanation.


          But I especially liked it, tired of it - and so it went all the forest! laughing

          Vyacheslav, and when will something tasty come from you again? Well, completely green anguish, nothing interesting. drinks
        2. 0
          23 September 2019 21: 12
          Quote: kalibr
          Not only that, it was possible to leave the battle ... to sit by the tent, eat, drink and again into business. And it was possible ... to withdraw your squad from the battle without explanation.

          That is yes. It was possible for the knight to drink and relax behind the wall of the infantry, which protects his peace from those with whom he had just fought. But here for the unauthorized withdrawal of the detachment from the battle - if the commander was the winner in the end - it would be possible even for a noble nobleman to be on the chopping block, and if his army lost, then he was handsome, such as having transferred to the camp of winners during the battle.
  33. +1
    11 September 2019 15: 30
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Is she on the roof of her private house? "People live richly"!

    Haha No. This is she on the roof of my granddaughter's dollhouse. She just loves to lie high.
  34. 0
    12 September 2019 20: 52
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Vyacheslav, and when will something tasty come from you again? Well, completely green anguish, nothing interesting.

    And what specifically interests you?
  35. 0
    23 September 2019 21: 02
    Quote: Warrior2015
    Ooooh, what evil evil Nazis and greedy capitalists are in Austria!

    ?????????????????????????????????????