Military Review

Designers have proposed replacing the An-2 single-engine monoplane

172
Ural Civil Plant aviation (UZGA), in the framework of the program to create a new aircraft to replace the An-2, came up with a proposal to create a single-engine monoplane for 9 passengers. This was announced by the chief designer of the aircraft factory Vadim Demin.


Designers have proposed replacing the An-2 single-engine monoplane


According to Demin, the new aircraft, being developed to replace the An-2, should be a monoplane with a high strut wing. Such a scheme, according to the chief designer, compared with a biplane, is easier to manufacture, maintain and repair, and also has a higher aerodynamic quality and, accordingly, better cruising characteristics.

Thanks to this design of the airframe, the aircraft will have a maximum take-off mass of 4800 kg, which is 1,5 times less than that of TVS-2DTS (7400 kg). This complies with the standards that set weight limits for light single-engine aircraft.

- Demin said on the sidelines of the MAX-2019, adding that the UZGA will come up with a proposal to create a single-engine monoplane with a capacity of 9 passengers to replace the An-2.

Earlier, the Ministry of Industry and Trade announced that a new aircraft with a capacity of 2 - 9 passengers will be developed to replace the legendary An-14. The single-engine TVS-2021DTS "Baikal" aircraft, previously planned for serial production from 2, developed by the Siberian Research Institute of Aviation on the basis of the An-2, will not be produced, but developments on it will be used to create a new aircraft.

The aviation industry explained that the decision on the fate of the Baikal aircraft, as well as what technological features will be used to create the new aircraft, will be made in September. Work on the creation of a new light multi-purpose aircraft to replace the An-2 will begin this year, the first prototype of the aircraft for static tests should be ready by December next year.
172 comments
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  1. seregatara1969
    seregatara1969 28 August 2019 11: 00
    +8
    it’s too early to bury the old man. How to replace it in regional transportation?
  2. Gnefredov
    Gnefredov 28 August 2019 11: 03
    +16
    must be a monoplane with a high strut wing

    Oh yeah. And the missing lifting force of the removed wing will be compensated by the gravitap.
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 28 August 2019 11: 08
      +2
      Quote: Gnefredov
      Oh yeah. And the missing lifting force of the removed wing will be compensated by the gravitap.

      I ask you to give examples of a modern biplane and a modern monoplane with similar performance characteristics.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 28 August 2019 11: 34
        +6
        I ask you to give examples of a modern biplane and a modern monoplane with similar performance characteristics.

        Cessna 208
        1. bar
          bar 28 August 2019 13: 53
          0
          And carrying capacity per ton is less than that of Baikal.
    2. ver_
      ver_ 28 August 2019 11: 23
      +7
      ... and why is everything done through the ass? ..
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 28 August 2019 11: 58
        +7
        Quote: ver_
        ..and why is everything done through the ass? ..

        There is everything to create, take and do, but some kind of force slows down, as if deliberately.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 28 August 2019 12: 04
          -1
          Quote: tihonmarine
          There is everything to create, take and do, but some kind of force slows down, as if deliberately.

          here I am, looking at you - there are arms / legs, run and pull, but some kind of force slows down ... as if deliberately ....
          ps
          not personally to you, but to the majority.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 28 August 2019 12: 24
            0
            Quote: NEOZ
            here I am, looking at you - there are arms / legs, run and pull, but some kind of force slows down ... as if deliberately.

            You said it well, but even the greatest strength can be stopped by painting the pen of a small pen with even a weak hand.
            1. Vladimir16
              Vladimir16 28 August 2019 13: 46
              -4
              Quote: ver_
              ... and why is everything done through the ass? ..

              What a strange community you have. winked
              Do you live in the EU? Or in Ukraine?
              Come live in Russia. Here we need to think with our heads, constantly move our arms and legs.
              In general, not up to our ass. laughing
      2. Yngvar
        Yngvar 28 August 2019 12: 01
        -7
        The joke was remembered:
        20-30s of the 20th century, international symposium of doctors:
        "USA - we use anesthesia during operations;
        Germany - laboratory studies of penicillin, experimental use;
        Russia - we cut tonsils!
        Universal applause!

        60-70s of the 20th century, international symposium of doctors:
        USA - transplantation of internal organs (kidneys, liver, heart);
        Germany - treatment of oncological diseases of the abdominal organs;
        Russia - we cut tonsils!
        "It was..."
        So autogenous!
        Exclamations of admiration!

        Our time, the characters are the same
        USA - the decoding of the human genome is close to completion;
        Germany - treatment of oncology of any type;
        Russia - we cut tonsils!
        "It was..."
        So autogenous!
        "It was..."
        So through w ... y!
        Exclamations of admiration!
        1. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 28 August 2019 14: 13
          +1
          Quote: Yngvar
          The joke was remembered:
          Our time, the characters are the same
          USA - the decoding of the human genome is close to completion;
          Germany - treatment of oncology of any type;
          Russia - we cut tonsils!
          "It was..."
          So autogenous!
          "It was..."
          So through w ... y!
          Exclamations of admiration!

          It was .... Aziz Nesin "If I were a woman."
        2. senima56
          senima56 29 August 2019 22: 53
          +1
          Continuation of the joke:
          .......... And the German gets up and says: "Why are you surprised? The Russians do everything through ... they do it!"
      3. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 28 August 2019 14: 09
        +4
        Quote: ver_
        ... and why is everything done through the ass? ..

        Because they think with it at the top and immediately manage to crap. A biplane is ideal for small aircraft. Low takeoff and landing speeds, low mileage, the ability to use "green" takeoff fields, fewer casualties in possible accidents, higher planning capabilities.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 28 August 2019 19: 04
          0
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          A biplane is ideal for small aircraft.

          Here is a simple and short answer.
    3. D16
      D16 28 August 2019 11: 25
      +2
      And the missing lifting force of the removed wing will be compensated by the gravitap.

      Wing span, wing profile, lower take-off weight. The engine, the campaign will be VK-800. At 4,8t, that's enough.
      1. NEOZ
        NEOZ 28 August 2019 12: 05
        +2
        Quote: D16
        the campaign will be VK-800.

        Yes, I also think that they will come from the presence of an engine.
      2. bar
        bar 28 August 2019 13: 56
        -2
        And who needs such a buzz as a regional plane?
      3. abc_alex
        abc_alex 28 August 2019 14: 53
        +1
        Antonov tried a monoplane. The network has a photo of the An-2 monoplane. The wingspan is titanic. After all, it was required that the plane could plan with the engine turned off.
    4. Baloo
      Baloo 28 August 2019 11: 40
      +5
      Quote: Gnefredov
      must be a monoplane with a high strut wing

      Oh yeah. And the missing lifting force of the removed wing will be compensated by the gravitap.

      In the distant school Soviet childhood, I saw the following picture: An-2 on the brakes gassed until the tail lifted, removed the brakes and after 50-70 meters was already in the air.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 28 August 2019 12: 26
        +3
        Quote: Balu
        An-2 braked on the brakes until the tail lifted, removed the brakes and through 50-70 meters was already in the air.

        Khimdym always took off like that.
    5. novel66
      novel66 28 August 2019 11: 49
      +1
      oh well ... just wider scope, SAH is thicker
    6. Undecim
      Undecim 28 August 2019 11: 56
      +3
      And the missing lifting force of the removed wing will be compensated by the gravity
      You can immediately see that you are strong in aerodynamics.
      An-2 flies beautifully and in a monoplane variant.

      TR-301 version developed by Tehregion Production and Design Company LLC (Yeisk).
      The engine is the native ASH-62, but with an fuel injection system and water injection.
      Removing the lower wing allowed to reduce weight by 450 kg. The aerodynamic drag has become less, the wing load has increased. Cruising speed - 210 km / h.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 28 August 2019 12: 32
        +8
        So the question is not whether it can fly or not. The question is landing characteristics and minimum steady speed. At Biplan they are the best. The monoplane has a large minimum speed (physics) and large requirements for the strip (again physics).

        FAs were designed to at least maintain the characteristics of the AN-2, and ideally surpass. Including minimum speed, as well as landing requirements.

        Cessna 208 is the closest to the LAN in terms of sound characteristics, is quite demanding on the band and has a significantly higher minimum allowable speed.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 28 August 2019 13: 00
          -1
          If you have already decided to enlighten the audience in theoretical terms, then the terminology should be strictly scientific.
          There is no "minimum stable speed" in aerodynamics. There is a minimum or minimum permissible speed of the aircraft - the lowest value of the steady-state horizontal (or almost horizontal) flight speed Vmin, permissible in operation.
        2. Gnefredov
          Gnefredov 28 August 2019 13: 04
          -1
          good
          And on nitpicking to terminology from Undecim, never mind.
        3. Piramidon
          Piramidon 28 August 2019 13: 24
          -1
          Quote: donavi49
          So the question is not whether it can fly or not. The question is landing characteristics and minimum steady speed. At Biplan they are the best. The monoplane has a large minimum speed (physics) and large requirements for the strip (again physics).

          It is necessary to compare not abstract biplane and monoplane, but take into account, for example, such a factor as the profile and mechanization of the wing on a particular aircraft.
        4. dauria
          dauria 28 August 2019 16: 45
          +1
          Question in landing characteristics


          and this is solved by mechanization. Three-piece flaps and hover ailerons. By the way, Antonov himself followed this path in the An-14 "Bee".
          And there is a worldwide successful experience - the hard worker Canadian de-heviland DHC-6.
          It flies around the world, in Russia it is also used by a couple of companies. It was built from 65 to 88, production was resumed in 2012 and is riveted to this day.

          and here is Antonovskaya "Bee"
    7. Elturisto
      Elturisto 28 August 2019 14: 37
      +2
      It’s not with a holy spirit that you have blown away from modern trends. The priests will be sprinkled with a broom and the lifting force will be fixed and the braces will ring.
  3. NEXUS
    NEXUS 28 August 2019 11: 10
    +3
    I’m thinking why there is no work being done to create a steam engine for airplanes, cars, etc.? Someone will say that steam engines are an anachronism, but ... the efficiency of steam engines is higher than that of ICEs, they are economical and do not litter the environment. Here is one of the projects still created in the USSR ...
    At the end of the 50 of the last century, the Soviet Union conducted secret developments of an ultra-economical multi-purpose aircraft. The designers were faced with the task of making an airplane that could fly on any fuel, refueling in any conditions, with a flight range of at least 10 000 kilometers and the possibility of landing on very short stripes, as well as on water and swamps.

    The first condition - omnivorousness, while respecting the principle of ideological intelligibility - and dictated to the brilliant Soviet designers the idea of ​​using a steam generator power plant. The glider of the ultramodern (the best in the world!) At that time Il-18 aircraft was taken as the basis for the future password.

    As a power plant was used developed at the Institute of Gasdynamics. Stechkina is a steam turbine unit with direct-flow steam heating, unique in its technical and ideological characteristics. Steam heated in steam heaters, accelerating in nozzles-nozzles of an expansion-vestibular apparatus, rotated a steam turbine, from the shaft of which the alternating-constant 4-x phase current generator (in the number of generators) was driven. The propellers of the aircraft were driven by four electric motors powered by a generator, which during operation were excited and simultaneously cooled (the so-called principle of double vapor-electric expansion) by the exhaust steam of a gas turbine plant.

    The first flight of the Il-18P with the steam afterburner on.


    Modification of IL-18P with two bins for peat and one coal tender equipped with an automatic feed and fuel centering system AKCHG-CP, which significantly reduced the number of replaceable stokers.

    When creating the aircraft, many unique technical solutions were applied, many of which were decades ahead of their century. Many of these solutions directly flowed from revolutionary steam turbine technology.

    So, for example, the afterburner system was developed, when during take-off and landing the steam exited the boiler through a special nozzle and created a powerful jet thrust. This allowed to reduce the take-off run from 1000 to 120 meters, and the run-off length from 800 to 60 meters.

    The system was further refined, additional maneuverable nozzles were added, with the help of which the aircraft could instantly turn in the air at almost a right angle to the course.
    1. shura7782
      shura7782 28 August 2019 11: 25
      +6
      Quote: NEXUS
      to create a steam engine for aircraft

      Sarcasm. New aviation specialties will open -
      Fireman of the aircraft. wink
      1. Errr
        Errr 28 August 2019 11: 33
        +5
        Quote: shura7782
        New aviation specialties will open -
        Fireman of the aircraft. wink
        Well, then, in addition to the stoker, there’s also an aircraft engineer.)))
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 28 August 2019 11: 50
          +5
          Quote: Herrr
          Well, then, in addition to the stoker, there’s also an aircraft engineer.)))

          Let your sarcasm subside, I'll tell you that back in 1906! year, on a car called "Rocket" on steam, a speed of 206 km / h was developed (if sclerosis does not change me). And after that, this racer crashed on this steam engine, and the speed was 240 km / h. And now to remind you what speeds in 1906 were cars with internal combustion engines?
          1. Errr
            Errr 28 August 2019 11: 55
            +5
            Plus. You very bravely touched on a rather interesting topic. An external combustion engine has been of interest to me for almost a quarter of a century. Apparently it will be necessary to revisit this topic again. And for sarcasm do not hold resentment. A smile promotes cerebral circulation ...) hi
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 28 August 2019 11: 59
              +2
              Quote: Herrr
              Plus. You very bravely touched on a rather interesting topic. An external combustion engine has been of interest to me for almost a quarter of a century. Apparently it will be necessary to revisit this topic again. And for sarcasm do not hold resentment. A smile promotes cerebral circulation ...) hi

              When I started digging the topic of steam engines, I was surprised to learn that the efficiency of a steam engine is many times greater. And by and large, ICE is an anachronism, in comparison with steam engines and electric motors. But oil must be sold, and therefore the topic of steam engines is not being conducted.
              1. AU Ivanov.
                AU Ivanov. 28 August 2019 12: 16
                +3
                What thermal energy will you get for the working fluid? Just due to the burning of hydrocarbons, no one else has been invented yet. Nuclear reactors, hydrogen - so far from the realm of fiction. So - either oil or gas.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 28 August 2019 12: 18
                  -2
                  Quote: AS Ivanov.
                  Nuclear reactors, hydrogen - so far from the realm of fiction. So - either oil or gas.

                  Or electricity for example ...
                  1. marshes
                    marshes 28 August 2019 12: 21
                    +1
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    Or electricity for example ...

                    And how do you plan to receive electricity?
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 28 August 2019 12: 48
                      -2
                      Quote: marshes
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      Or electricity for example ...

                      And how do you plan to receive electricity?

                      Excuse me Tesla how did you get electricity? Did you pump oil?
                      1. marshes
                        marshes 28 August 2019 12: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        Excuse me Tesla how did you get electricity? Did you pump oil?

                        And how did you get it? From Vaccum?
                      2. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 28 August 2019 12: 54
                        0
                        Quote: marshes
                        And how did you get it? From Vaccum?

                        Tesla’s work is still largely incomprehensible even to academics, but ... his electrical installations, which lit lamps at a distance, worked. How, due to which ... to be honest, I didn’t dig this topic, but ... I know for sure which is not due to petroleum products.
                      3. marshes
                        marshes 28 August 2019 12: 59
                        0
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        Tesla’s work is still largely incomprehensible even to academics, but ... his electrical installations, which lit lamps at a distance, worked. How, due to which ... to be honest, I didn’t dig this topic, but ... I know for sure which is not due to petroleum products.

                        They lit the lamps thanks to the electricity received from the Niagara Hydroelectric Power Station, he simply learned to transmit alternating current as radio waves over distances without wires, but with one condition that the transmitter and successor must be grounded.
                      4. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 28 August 2019 13: 03
                        0
                        Quote: marshes
                        They lit the lamps thanks to the electricity received from the Niagara hydroelectric station

                        And if it is not a hydroelectric power station, but a nuclear power plant? Where is the wild waste of hydrocarbons? As an opinion ...
                      5. marshes
                        marshes 28 August 2019 13: 16
                        -1
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        And if it is not a hydroelectric power station, but a nuclear power plant? Where is the wild waste of hydrocarbons? As an opinion ...

                        What difference does it make? The main MASS is the EARTH, which you suggest to add an additional grounding cable to the plane. Is it easier to use the electric motor with the highest 72-74% efficiency with new technologies and up to 80%. With steam, about 55% , Diesel 50%, gasoline 40.
                      6. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 28 August 2019 13: 32
                        0
                        Quote: marshes
                        What difference does it make? The main MASS is the EARTH, which you suggest to add an additional grounding cable to the plane. Is it easier to use the electric motor with the highest 72-74% efficiency with new technologies and up to 80%. With steam, about 55% , Diesel 50%, gasoline 40.

                        Finally, the BASIC thought came to you - why not ALTERNATIVE ICE then? I cited the steam engine as an example, although I am convinced that if this topic is developed, then all problems can be resolved now.
                      7. marshes
                        marshes 28 August 2019 13: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        Finally, the BASIC thought came to you - why not ALTERNATIVE ICE then?

                        Electricity good , on the fly in Tesla, he rolled both as a passenger and as a driver, we didn’t meet with electric stations and the landlord charges at home, this is his car for show-offs.
                        We have large open spaces, here is the place for windmills, the ones we have already pay for themselves and bring profit to the owners, although we have a social price of one kilowat that the Russians were forced to sell part of the shares in some energy companies.
                        Gasoline is 95-28 rubles for you.
                      8. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 28 August 2019 13: 45
                        0
                        Quote: marshes
                        We have large open spaces, here is a place for windmills

                        Windmills are effective only at heights ... since noisy hurts ... But as a kind of airship with a screw catching the wind, yes ... the idea is not new. hi
                      9. Vladimir16
                        Vladimir16 28 August 2019 13: 56
                        +1
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        I cited the steam engine as an example

                        Nexus, a nuclear reactor turns water into steam that rotates a turbine.
                        No one forgot the steam engine.

                        Abandoned coal and firewood. Just changed the fuel.
                        The steam engine continues to serve people.
                        The most advanced power plants are essentially steam engines.

                        Further simpler than turnip:
                        - In order not to carry between your legs a nuclear reactor (moped, car), carry a battery that is charged by the same steam engine.

                        But the battery requires infrastructure.

                        ICE is less demanding.
                        During the war, ICE showed its reliability and unpretentiousness.

                        And the park of locomotives parked in Siberia is large.
              2. Errr
                Errr 28 August 2019 12: 44
                +2
                The efficiency of external combustion engines is really very good, only the electric motor is better. In a steam engine, it is almost one and a half times higher than that of an internal combustion engine (more than 30%). The Stirling engine is even more efficient. But the latter has one subtlety of a purely technical plan. In order not to eject anything outside during operation (to work without exhaust), the working fluid during the working cycle must not only be effectively heated, but also have no less effective cooling after that. It is quite problematic to provide a sufficient level of cooling on land "tarataikas", but on waterfowl and especially flying ones, one could even try to portray something. In any case, it would be interesting to try it.) And oil as a fuel will be useful to us in this case, in any case, steam locomotives have been working on it for a long time.)
              3. Grits
                Grits 29 August 2019 01: 30
                +1
                Quote: NEXUS
                When I started digging the topic of steam engines, I was surprised to learn that the efficiency of a steam engine is many times greater.

                And we were always told at school that in a locomotive all the efficiency flies into the pipe. What a blow from the classical school ... winked
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 28 August 2019 11: 42
        -1
        Quote: shura7782
        Fireman of the aircraft.

        There are closed-loop steam engines, there is no need for a fireman there. Besides, where did you get the idea that water can only be heated with coal and the fireman’s strength? M.
        1. shura7782
          shura7782 28 August 2019 11: 58
          +1
          why do you think so
          Well, a little joke for a good mood.
          But seriously, I think. that the topic you raised is viable. Apparently, new thermal plants with higher efficiency, small size and weight are needed. Who currently continues to do this, or at least take advantage of the results already achieved?
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 28 August 2019 12: 04
            0
            Quote: shura7782
            Who currently continues to do this, or at least take advantage of the results already achieved?

            Only enthusiasts. 80 years after the steam engine record at 206 km / h, the record was broken ... if sclerosis does not change at a speed of 234 km / h.

            at the beginning of the 80's, steam turbine engine enthusiast Jim Crank did not decide to break the “steam” 1906 speed record of the year. He himself could not build a racing steam car, but managed to interest Bob Barber, co-owner of the Barber-Nichols company producing steam turbine units. As a result, the ferryboat was still built, and in August 1985 of the year on the Bonneville plateau, he overcame the test mile at a speed of 234,3 km / h.
            [Quote] [/ quote]
            1. shura7782
              shura7782 28 August 2019 16: 49
              +1
              Only enthusiasts
              In the late nineties, I was lucky enough to visit KB Mil for excursions from the bug. Among the many domestic exhibits there was one Mi - 8 with a gas engine. To present this option to us, a man came out who was engaged in the development of a gas engine. It would seem like it (reliability, simplicity, profitability), but it didn’t go beyond a few flights. In order to use gas engines in parallel with traditional engines, not small cash costs are required. If we take into account that traditionally everything new is being introduced with a big fight, then a lot of things never reach the exit. Then, unexpectedly, it pops up abroad. And we shrug our hands in frustration.
      3. novel66
        novel66 28 August 2019 11: 50
        +2
        a plane releasing clouds of steam ... enchanting !!! good
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 28 August 2019 11: 57
          -1
          Quote: novel xnumx
          a plane releasing clouds of steam ... enchanting !!! good

          So what? And a plane on a classic dvigun produces a condensation trail, and so what? The steam engine is silent, economical, and environmentally friendly.
          1. marshes
            marshes 28 August 2019 12: 16
            +2
            Quote: NEXUS
            So what? And a plane on a classic dvigun produces a condensation trail, and so what? The steam engine is silent, economical, and environmentally friendly.

            The photo is interesting, the Il-18 has an APU in the tail, for engine starts in the absence of airfield information.
    2. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 28 August 2019 11: 27
      +10
      Quote: NEXUS
      Someone will say that steam engines are an anachronism, but ... the efficiency of steam engines is higher than that of ICEs, they are economical and do not litter the environment.


      Glamurnenko so, according to the modern ... (do not kick much - a joke) lol
      1. Errr
        Errr 28 August 2019 11: 42
        +6
        And here I remembered "Stoves-benches" by a sinful deed ... lol
      2. Jager
        Jager 28 August 2019 12: 16
        0
        and somewhere near the air iceberg laughing
    3. ioan-e
      ioan-e 28 August 2019 11: 33
      +1
      Reminded: Armenian radio reported that when trying to launch a spacecraft in China, three astronauts and five hundred stokers died!
      April Fools' nonsense of some kind.
    4. Dudinka
      Dudinka 28 August 2019 11: 39
      +5
      I was especially pleased with the phrases: - "omnivorousness while adhering to the principle of ideological intelligibility", "technical and ideological characteristics", "dilator-vestibular apparatus", "alternating-constant 4-phase current generator", "principle of double steam-electric expansion" well etc.
      Bravo NEXUS! Offset!
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 28 August 2019 12: 15
        -2
        Quote: Dudinka
        Bravo NEXUS! Offset!

        Vladimir, I look here many think of themselves as big engine builders and therefore they joke about April 1 with a smart look. However, experts do not even think of such grief the idea that what they pushed into this head about ICE was bullshit. Thanks to the Rothschilds, the Morgan, etc., mankind has taken the most flawed path — pumping oil and trashing people about the effectiveness of ICE.
        1. Dudinka
          Dudinka 28 August 2019 12: 26
          +1
          Quote: NEXUS
          the thought comes that what they crammed into this head about ICE is bullshit. Thanks to the Rothschilds, the Morgan, etc., mankind has taken the most flawed path — pumping oil and trashing people about the effectiveness of ICE.

          Yes, Andrey, I also read about this in various sources. That there is supposedly the development of alternative ICE engines with high efficiency, but the oilmen do not give it a go
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 28 August 2019 12: 30
            +1
            Quote: Dudinka
            Yes, Andrey, I also read about this in various sources. That there is supposedly the development of alternative ICE engines with high efficiency, but the oilmen do not give it a go

            At the beginning of the automotive era, steam engines, electric vehicles and internal combustion engines started at about the same time ... and steam engines with electric vehicles performed much better than internal combustion engines at that time. However, thanks to the "oilmen" who wanted to get rich in oil production, mankind followed the most stupid path of development - the internal combustion engine, which already at the very beginning was losing to steam and electric engines in all respects.
        2. Grits
          Grits 29 August 2019 02: 55
          0
          Quote: NEXUS
          Thanks to the Rothschilds, the Morgan, etc., mankind has taken the most flawed path — pumping oil and trashing people about the effectiveness of ICE.

          Maybe you are right. But why then did mankind switch from steam locomotives to diesel locomotives? What were some good arguments?
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 29 August 2019 07: 44
            -1
            Quote: Gritsa
            Maybe you are right. But why then did mankind switch from steam locomotives to diesel locomotives? What were some good arguments?

            I have a version ... at the beginning of the 20 century, companies such as Fort bought electric trams through front companies and destroyed the cars themselves. Also, a tax was imposed on the dimensions of vehicles, in connection with which, steam engines, AT THIS TIME , could not compete with cars with internal combustion engines. That is, I want to say that there was a systematic destruction of entire branches of production, because of which, at the beginning of the 20 century, electric cars and steam-powered vehicles did not develop in parallel with cars with internal combustion engines. Why is flawed production competition? Indeed, the efficiency of both the electric motor and the steam is much higher than that of the internal combustion engine, while the environment does not suffer, there is no noise, no hydrocarbons in such wild quantities are needed. That is, there was a systematic and most important INTENTIONAL destruction of competitors.
            1. Grits
              Grits 29 August 2019 08: 01
              +1
              Quote: NEXUS
              That is, there was a systematic and most important INTENTIONAL destruction of competitors.

              From such a great American as Ford this could be expected. As a matter of fact, from any American
    5. sgapich
      sgapich 28 August 2019 11: 43
      +6
      ... technical and ideological characteristics ...

      ... Research Institute of Gas Dynamics named. Stechkina ...

      ... accelerating in nozzles-nozzles of the expansion-vestibular apparatus ...
      etc.
      On the first of April of what year was this article published? hi
    6. Undecim
      Undecim 28 August 2019 12: 19
      +2
      I’m thinking, why isn’t work being done to create a steam engine for airplanes, cars, etc.?
      Because they have already been carried out. In the last century. There were a lot of projects, both with a steam engine and a steam turbine, including in the USSR.
      Out of all this diversity on a steam engine, one aircraft took off - the Airspeed 2000.

      On April 2, 1933, American inventors brothers George and William Bessler, together with engineer Nathan Price, demonstrated a plane called the Airspeed 2000 - a redesigned classic model of the Travel Air 2000 biplane.
      The two-cylinder V-shaped steam engine "gave out" 150 hp. Ten gallons of water were enough for about 600 km of flight.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 28 August 2019 12: 26
        +3
        In 1934, MAI students designed a star-shaped steam engine for the U-2 aircraft.

        Moreover, in 1936 this engine was built. But they could not build a steam generator of acceptable mass.
        So the sarcasm of Mr. Nexus is just an illustration of the knowledge gap.
        Or vice versa - an illustration of deep knowledge.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 28 August 2019 12: 52
          0
          Quote: Undecim
          So the sarcasm of Mr. Nexus is just an illustration of the knowledge gap.
          Or vice versa - an illustration of deep knowledge.

          This is not sarcasm, but a sincere misunderstanding of why humanity is walking like a herd of sheep (sorry) along the most disastrous and not economical path of development. hi
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 28 August 2019 13: 19
            +2
            You see, here it is necessary to separate the social and technical aspects of your question.
            If we consider the technical issue, then a steam engine, even in the form of a modern steam turbine, is unsuitable for installation on an aircraft due to the fact that mankind is not yet able to create installations for generating a pair of acceptable weight and size characteristics. Well, mankind has come up with nothing but a steam boiler and a steam generator !!! But they are not suitable for an airplane.
            As for the social aspect, that is, the rams ... This is a difficult question. Indeed, a significant part of society is (sorry) a herd of sheep, which the shepherds drive in the right direction. It can be clearly seen even on the website, especially in the "News" section. Even such an interesting phenomenon is observed. Some individuals who demonstrate certain skills of independent thinking in articles on technical issues, getting into the "News" or "Opinions" section, turn into the very ones you spoke about, which are in the herd.
            Perhaps among the site authors there is a specialist who will write an article explaining this phenomenon.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 28 August 2019 13: 26
              0
              So the graphic illustration in the form of a minus arrived in time. One of the Nexus, a social group you mentioned, was noted. If you approach in science, then the minimum 80% should be minuses, the rest - plus.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 28 August 2019 13: 35
                0
                Quote: Undecim
                So the graphic illustration in the form of a minus arrived in time. One of the Nexus, a social group you mentioned, was noted. If you approach in science, then the minimum 80% should be minuses, the rest - plus.

                Yes, I have minuses, even this article also has a complete order))) Plusanul you, because you reason quite sensibly. hi
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 28 August 2019 13: 44
                  +2
                  Andrey, minuses - this is for the mentioned comrades - the only way to express themselves and to pour insult for their condition on individuals from higher intellectual levels.
                  Why have I been trying for a long time to bring to the site administration that the minus should not be anonymous and should be accompanied by an intelligible comment.
                  In the end, it will benefit. as it will make those who are accustomed not to think.
                  1. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 28 August 2019 13: 48
                    +1
                    Quote: Undecim
                    Andrey, minuses - this is for the mentioned comrades - the only way to express themselves and to pour insult for their condition on individuals from higher intellectual levels.
                    Why have I been trying for a long time to bring to the site administration that the minus should not be anonymous and should be accompanied by an intelligible comment.
                    In the end, it will benefit. as it will make those who are accustomed not to think.

                    You know, I don’t give a damn about the cons ... I talked here with interesting people whose brain is not washed out and I think this is the biggest plus that covers all these empty minuses. The topic about steam engines is really interesting and I raised it just to discuss and give an opportunity to look at it all from a different angle. So that people start thinking with their own brains, and not with those who have driven all kinds of rubbish into their heads since school.
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim 28 August 2019 14: 06
                      +2
                      About steam engines, the topic is really interesting
                      The development of the steam engine design is a really interesting topic. Unfortunately, she has not yet found her author on the site.
                      In relation to aviation there is an interesting book.
  4. ZVS
    ZVS 28 August 2019 11: 11
    +11
    Who is Demin and what did the UZGA create to qualify for the project of an aircraft for local airlines? There is a TVS-2DTS "Baikal" project, ready for production, with excellent characteristics. Do they really want to kill him, like the Tu-334 was killed? When will this public chaos end and the country will be run by a real master?
    1. Dudinka
      Dudinka 28 August 2019 12: 35
      +3
      Quote: SU
      Who is Demin and what did the UZGA create to qualify for the project of an aircraft for local airlines? There is a TVS-2DTS "Baikal" project, ready for production, with excellent characteristics. Do they really want to kill him, like the Tu-334 was killed? When will this public chaos end and the country will be run by a real master?

      I believe that the matter is not in Demin and UZGA. How Finista was closed, I don’t remember another project, so was Baikal, and probably more than one project will be closed.
      Now the main, as the "advanced" ones say, is a trend, this is being developed in Russia ..., in Russia it will be built ..., in Russia it will be adopted ..., well, etc.
      1. ZVS
        ZVS 29 August 2019 12: 20
        0
        I absolutely agree with you! So many wonderful and promising projects have been killed in Russia! I thought that Boeing’s bacchanalia in Russia in the civil aviation industry after the disasters of the 737s would end, but apparently his lobby in the Russian government is absolutely. And getting rid of this is possible only by changing the economic policy of the state.
  5. igorspb
    igorspb 28 August 2019 11: 12
    +1
    You can talk a lot, maybe it's time to just do it?
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 28 August 2019 11: 18
      +2
      Already repeating!
      Do we have at least someone who can DECIDE and DO ???
      1. ver_
        ver_ 28 August 2019 15: 54
        +1
        ... maybe, but through the ass ..
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 28 August 2019 17: 06
          0
          Quote: ver_
          ... maybe, but through the ass ..

          No, no, we don’t need this, anymore!
          1. ver_
            ver_ 29 August 2019 06: 26
            0
            ... when I was still in my youth, we took tickets for * corncob * and * drove * him to Lake Arakhley .. In the middle of the lake, the pilot drowned out the engine and, in glider mode, * went * to the airfield. Silence - only the wind * whistles * in the braces of the wings .. and landing on the unpaved airfield ...
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 28 August 2019 11: 32
      +7
      I ask you to give examples of a modern biplane and a modern monoplane with similar performance characteristics.

      You can talk a lot, maybe it's time to just do it?

      Everything has already been done.
      Cessna 152 (2-seater)

      Cessna 172 (4-seater)

      Cessna 210 (6-seater)

      Cessna 208 (13-seater)

      And so on ...
      1. ultra
        ultra 28 August 2019 11: 52
        +2
        And what does this have to do with us?
        1. Grits
          Grits 29 August 2019 04: 23
          0
          Quote: ultra
          And what does this have to do with us?

          Unfortunately, no. These are all Americans ... the damned bourgeois are building.
      2. marshes
        marshes 28 August 2019 11: 53
        0
        After all, the technique is bourgeois, but it is necessary.
        208 with a business cabin is not a bad plane.
      3. NEOZ
        NEOZ 28 August 2019 12: 47
        +2
        Quote: Arzt
        And so on ...

        and not a single biplane ..... probably they have problems with the gravitsapa .....
      4. DenZ
        DenZ 28 August 2019 13: 10
        +1
        Quote: Arzt
        Everything has already been done.

        Moreover, there is already "Baikal" in principle, put a Russian engine on it (after making it and testing it) and that's it. No need to fence the bike. UZGA cannot offer anything sensible. They themselves are limping on both legs and can only assemble L-410 from Czech components and bring drones to mind for years.
  6. Kunica
    Kunica 28 August 2019 11: 17
    +10
    They don’t give a damn about aviation. They drown each other for a contract. Fucking capitalists, when will you get drunk ?! angry
  7. Errr
    Errr 28 August 2019 11: 17
    +2
    Only on December 19, 2018 in Aramil solemnly opened a new assembly shop for the licensed assembly of Czech L-410.
    The constructed workshop belongs to the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA), which is part of the Rostec state corporation. The assembly shop at the Uktus production site was built in two stages. It is planned to reach full design capacity (up to 20 aircraft per year) in 2019. According to the statement of the Ural State Aviation Administration General Director Vadim Badehi, now “the level of production localization during assembly of a Czech-made L-410 aircraft reaches about 35%. By 2021, the level of localization should reach 72%. ”
    More details: https://www.zhukvesti.ru/articles/detail/3374/
    Not even a year has passed. Something wise Ural. what
    1. marshes
      marshes 28 August 2019 11: 56
      0
      Quote: Herrr
      Only on December 19, 2018 in Aramil solemnly opened a new assembly shop for the licensed assembly of Czech L-410.

      In the summer, I saw L410 at take-off at the Almaty Airport, pulled up a bit and flew, for me the news is because for 30 years I have not seen them all the more so at our airport. Yes, and in Kazakhstan.
      1. Errr
        Errr 28 August 2019 12: 00
        +1
        Yes, these old people are clearly not going to a well-deserved rest because of their permanent modernization.)
    2. Grits
      Grits 29 August 2019 04: 26
      0
      Quote: Herrr
      Something wise Ural.

      Why should they be wise? Why did they surrender domestic developments, domestic components, engines and aircraft? They just release the finished one, they work stupidly with a screwdriver. And they don’t care at all about the new maize. If only the money was dripping.
  8. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 11: 21
    +3
    According to Demin, the new aircraft, being developed to replace the An-2, should be a monoplane with a high strut wing. Such a scheme, according to the chief designer, compared with a biplane, is easier to manufacture, maintain and repair, and also has a higher aerodynamic quality and, accordingly, better cruising characteristics.

    roughly speaking, they want to make a big cessna-2 instead of an-172.
    in fact, Demin’s statement is quite controversial.
    easier to manufacture
    Well here hardly. Yes, there are fewer parts, but is it easier?
    maintenance and repair
    I think the difference is very small.
    has greater aerodynamic quality and, consequently, better cruising characteristics
    another question - how important are cruising characteristics
    and how they differ in 2 versions. There are many other requirements for small aircraft - controllability,
    obedience, low landing speed, strength and unpretentiousness to airfields, etc.
    as far as I know, the strut monoplane is not so strong.
    hang something on wings problem

    in general, Demin’s statement is, at a minimum, highly controversial.
    but in general, I would suggest a designer with different versions of the wings and layout
    1. DenZ
      DenZ 28 August 2019 13: 13
      +3
      Quote: yehat
      in general, Demin’s statement is, at a minimum, highly controversial.

      This is just a desire to get to the dough for design and EVERYTHING. UZGA has not yet designed a single aircraft. Pure water PR and the desire to stir up water in an attempt to draw design over itself.
      1. Elturisto
        Elturisto 28 August 2019 14: 48
        +1
        that's right! They are unable to design something there, not for this trash was created.
  9. Irbenwolf
    Irbenwolf 28 August 2019 11: 36
    +5
    Saw me the dough! Kukuruznik - reliable car, Kalashnikov assault rifle - why cause unnecessary problems? Was there a little dry Superjet? Or suddenly money fell over? Comfort?

    It is important for passengers to reach the destination point in the places where the "maize" works, and for the organizer of transportation the price of the flight is at the level of the baseboard.

    Down with the cut!
    1. marshes
      marshes 28 August 2019 11: 58
      +1
      Quote: IrbenWolf
      Saw me the dough! Kukuruznik - reliable car, Kalashnikov assault rifle - why cause unnecessary problems?

      And what is still being produced? I know that China is still stamping, and here are the spare parts for the aircraft that still remain.
      1. Grits
        Grits 29 August 2019 04: 31
        +1
        Quote: marshes
        I know that China is still stamping, and here are spare parts for the aircraft that still remain.

        And what prevents us from releasing the same reliable and proven corn plant? Arguments like "obsolete" - from the evil one. Insert a new engine, new avionics into it, replace something with composites and new materials. And good luck! Produce hundreds of pieces a year!
    2. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 28 August 2019 13: 05
      -1
      What are you carrying?!

      Did you fly on the An-2? I was flying and parachuting from it.

      An-2s have not been manufactured for a long time, this aircraft is not economically efficient compared to modern counterparts, there is no comfort.

      Russia needs a new, modern aircraft of this class with a larger capacity.

      Do not whine, everyone is doing right in this case.
  10. Avior
    Avior 28 August 2019 11: 37
    +1
    Somehow, the proposals for replacing the An-2 went, but they somehow looked frivolous and unworked, as if they had gathered for a beer in the evening, got out in the morning the offer .....
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 28 August 2019 11: 53
    +2
    the first prototype aircraft for static testing should be ready before December next year.
    The main thing is to be also reliable, easy to operate and durable. And the An-2 still flies and more than one year.
  13. Gnefredov
    Gnefredov 28 August 2019 11: 56
    0
    Quote: D16
    And the missing lifting force of the removed wing will be compensated by the gravitap.

    Wingspan, ... {bite}


    Yes Yes. This is exactly what I had in mind (a large hangar, reduced maneuverability at low altitudes, etc.)
  14. Fox1383
    Fox1383 28 August 2019 11: 57
    0
    We need a twin-engine ... one engine over the taiga or mountains will refuse and a skid ....
  15. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 28 August 2019 11: 58
    -1
    Maybe instead of Baikal they want to launch l 410 under the Czech license into mass production, the capacity of 19 passengers in the Urals is already and the production of these aircraft has been established
  16. 2112vda
    2112vda 28 August 2019 11: 58
    +2
    Who would doubt that! It is clear from where the "winds are blowing". 1 billion 200 million must be assimilated. Nothing personal, only the business interests of high-ranking gentlemen of the UZGA owners.
    1. 2112vda
      2112vda 28 August 2019 12: 16
      0
      It is clear, and here is an administrative resource.
  17. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 12: 01
    +1
    Quote: IrbenWolf
    Down with the cut!

    sawing very successfully in the USSR began around the 70s
    began to open a bunch of projects, the completion of which no one planned, but the movement and supply and bonuses and positions. This flourished especially in the "republics." In the 80s, part of this phenomenon was called protracted construction. Now the "vertical of power" has returned to this mass practice again. A bunch of projects for the sake of movement and cash flows with zero utility at the end.
    I can immediately call 5 such projects in St. Petersburg medicine (like a hotline for those at risk of getting a stroke, cancer centers that don’t treat it, but just try to cut it out in the last stages and many others). And just everyone knows about Chubais’s nano-results.
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 28 August 2019 12: 20
      0
      But what about medical projects, one project of turning the northern rivers to the south was worth what. Money buried in the ground. In the literal and figurative sense - in our village the crops were plowed back into the ground: they reported back, they received the prize, and then even though the grass did not grow.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 28 August 2019 12: 28
        +1
        Quote: AS Ivanov.
        in our village, crops were plowed back into the ground:

        I haven’t seen this anywhere. Where did they smell it?
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 28 August 2019 12: 44
          -1
          Novgorod region. Instead of harvesting the potatoes, they were plowed back. Flax there too. It was necessary to report that the crop was harvested. And how many shoes on posts - mom do not cry!
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 28 August 2019 12: 46
            0
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            Novgorod region. Instead of harvesting the potatoes, they were plowed back. Flax there too.

            What year was that?
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 28 August 2019 13: 01
              0
              In the late seventies. We, schoolchildren, even this year did not drive potatoes, which we were incredibly happy about. Flax - the same picture - lodged flax happened and was smelled back.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 28 August 2019 13: 09
                +2
                Quote: AS Ivanov.
                We, schoolchildren, even this year did not drive potatoes, which we were incredibly happy about.

                Why are you breaching? We were always happy when they sent us to potatoes. Every day they brought home a bucket of bucket, but it was necessary, and sold a bucket of 50 kopecks.
                Quote: AS Ivanov.
                the laden flax happened and was plowed back.

                We, in the Tula region, did not have this.
                1. AU Ivanov.
                  AU Ivanov. 28 August 2019 13: 18
                  0
                  What is joyful in harvesting potatoes? Especially in the rain. Autumn, dirt knee-deep. Brooms for cattle to knit - yes, this is more interesting. Or flax to ted.
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 28 August 2019 13: 32
                    +2
                    Quote: AS Ivanov.
                    What is joyful in harvesting potatoes? Especially in the rain. Autumn, dirt knee-deep.

                    What's wrong? As for the dirt, I will quote one of my teachers: "Guys, this is not dirt, this is Earth."
  18. E.S.
    E.S. 28 August 2019 12: 02
    -2
    Quote: ver_
    ... and why is everything done through the ass? ..

    Apparently you have overdone it with tolerance, nevertheless, Europe, and not some Mordor
  19. Dikson
    Dikson 28 August 2019 12: 04
    0
    people are fighting for the order ...
  20. E.S.
    E.S. 28 August 2019 12: 04
    -2
    Quote: CommanderDIVA
    Maybe instead of Baikal they want to launch l 410 under the Czech license into mass production, the capacity of 19 passengers in the Urals is already and the production of these aircraft has been established

    Calm, only calm! (c) Czechs no longer have all copyrights :-)
    1. Grits
      Grits 29 August 2019 04: 40
      0
      Quote: E.S.
      Calm, only calm! (c) Czechs no longer have all copyrights :-)

      From this plane did not cease to be Czech. And never will be Russian. Only the nameplate, crookedly fastened by the Ural workers, will be Russian there.
  21. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 12: 05
    0
    Quote: marshes
    After all, the technician is bourgeois, but he needs his own.

    case ala cessna 208 and the engine from the yak-18t. What else is needed??? (although the door would be nice closer to the tail)
    100% of their components (although I’m not sure that the navigation equipment will be all its own).
  22. E.S.
    E.S. 28 August 2019 12: 05
    -1
    Quote: Gnefredov
    Quote: D16
    And the missing lifting force of the removed wing will be compensated by the gravitap.

    Wingspan, ... {bite}


    Yes Yes. This is exactly what I had in mind (a large hangar, reduced maneuverability at low altitudes, etc.)

    Do you seriously think that nothing significant has happened in aviation since 1947?
  23. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 28 August 2019 12: 18
    +2
    And that was neither yours nor ours ... what or maybe so ... both yours and ours! Let there be a monoplane parasol instead of a biplane! fellow
  24. Kaw
    Kaw 28 August 2019 12: 26
    +1
    In the world, one of the most popular aircraft of this class is the Pilatus PS-12, launched in 1989
    Features:
    Maximum cruising speed: 528 km / h
    Flight range 1 pilot + 10 passengers: 2 371 km

    To compare the characteristics of the An-2 (in brackets for TVS-2DTS “Baikal”):
    Cruising speed: 180 km / h (280 km / h)
    Practical range: 990 km (1200 km)
    At the same time, the TVS-2DTS “Baikal” has an American engine and other foreign components.
    1. Kaw
      Kaw 28 August 2019 12: 28
      -1
      In my opinion, it is he who should be taken as a role model, only trying to make his own as much as possible.
    2. yehat
      yehat 28 August 2019 12: 36
      +1
      Pilatus is a good car, but it has 1 maaaaaalenky flaw.
      it is about 20 times more expensive than the an-2.
    3. marshes
      marshes 28 August 2019 12: 39
      0
      There were airplanes like Gzhel M-101 T, you don’t need to invent anything new, just raise the technical documentation.
    4. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 28 August 2019 12: 40
      +1
      The PC-12 has a lift-off speed of 160km / h. Landing around it. Annushka has a 75-85 lead. Pilatus will not sit on an unprepared site.
      1. Maxwrx
        Maxwrx 28 August 2019 21: 49
        0
        There is a video in YouTube (I can’t find it now) where it lands on a poorly prepared site and takes off from it. I thought it wasn’t really possible to sit there. So I think not everything is so bad
    5. Maxwrx
      Maxwrx 28 August 2019 21: 47
      0
      But only it costs about $ 7 million, and Baikal 130 million rubles ($ 2 million). This is how to compare Vesta with Porsche
  25. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 12: 28
    +6
    in general, a lot of our current problems are connected with a somewhat strange policy of industrial development in the USSR.
    I just don’t understand why a lot of production was carried out to Poland and other outskirts of the country. Was the summer of 1941 taught nothing? Why didn’t the actively combined centers of the entire production chain, for example, an engine-building plant and an aircraft, be within an hour's drive by car?
    A plant was working in my city, the materials for which were produced for 2.5 thousand km. This is normal???
    We are now reaping the benefits of this shortsighted strategy.
    Why is Ukraine so kicking? Yes, because it was necessary to place in Kiev not heavy industry, but light and food processing, as well as various kinds of research institutes, but with a very limited industrial base.
    and in the RSFSR it was not necessary to build Togliatti, but industrial centers as in Japan, when all the supply and assembly enterprises are located in a 150 km circle. And somehow they have no problems with suppliers, subcontractors, staff. Just as there are no problems with the Americans making films in Hollywood.
    Back in school, when I studied economic geography, I was greatly surprised at the inefficiency of the location of industry.
    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 28 August 2019 13: 00
      -1
      If all production is concentrated only in the center, then where do people work on the outskirts and in the province?

      The land will empty out without people, strangers will come and take everything away.

      Japan, your beloved, is slightly larger than Sakhalin, and 130 million people live there, almost like in Russia in ALL.
      1. Oyo Sarkazmi
        Oyo Sarkazmi 28 August 2019 13: 23
        +1
        Only 5% of the population of Japan lives in Hokkaido. Well, the Japanese do not like the cold, because there is no stove in their paper-rack houses.
      2. Doctor
        Doctor 28 August 2019 16: 48
        0
        Japan is your favorite a little larger than Sakhalin

        Due to the distortion of the cartographic projections (from round to flat), the closer to the poles the larger the object appears.
        Japan is 5 times larger than Sakhalin; it is larger than Norway. Sakhalin - 76 sq. Km, Norway - 400 sq. Km, Japan - 324 sq. Km.
        https://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTc1MDUxNzY.NzEwMzky*MzYwMDAwMDA(MA
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 28 August 2019 13: 02
      +1
      An urgent petition to Strasbourg: they "stole" my thoughts. But seriously, we somehow had the location of the industry through the stump: an enterprise in Murmansk, and components, for example, in Kushka
      Under a single Union, some more could be tolerated (not efficiently, but it worked), but after the collapse of the USSR, why didn’t they think ?! And now we "rejoice"
    3. Grits
      Grits 29 August 2019 04: 52
      0
      Quote: yehat
      Back in school, when I studied economic geography, I was greatly surprised at the inefficiency of the location of industry.

      Not everything can be adjusted to the same standards. Economic geography is not a stupid science either, and the location of the plants was thought out. I can give a lot of examples.
      And in Japan, the components were located within a radius of 150 km because within a radius of 152 km. there was already a sea laughing
  26. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 28 August 2019 12: 30
    +1
    The authors of the comments about "sawing the dough" generally know how the competition takes place and whose money is being "sawed"?
    Practice shows that nowadays all "flights" past the contract are at the expense of the developer.
  27. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 12: 31
    +2
    Quote: ver_
    ... and why is everything done through the ass? ..

    maybe you are in the office of a practitioner? winked
  28. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 12: 34
    0
    Quote: NEXUS
    The steam engine is silent, economical, and environmentally friendly.

    I wonder if the plane can replenish water in the air in significant quantities due to condensate?
    1. mark1
      mark1 28 August 2019 13: 04
      0
      To do this, find a good cloud ...
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 28 August 2019 18: 40
      -1
      Quote: yehat
      I wonder if the plane can replenish water in the air in significant quantities due to condensate?

      A CLOSED STEAM ENGINE ... I say the topic is very interesting and most importantly, I am convinced, promising. Kochegars, firewood and so on are all antiquities. The important thing is that the steam engine is silent, economical, environmentally friendly and you eat the fuel resource at least backwards.
      1. Grits
        Grits 29 August 2019 04: 57
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        The important thing is that the steam engine is silent, economical, environmentally friendly and you eat the fuel resource at least backwards.

        This is very tempting. I wonder how it is in size? And it can be located only in the fuselage, if I understand correctly. And this is a useful amount ...
  29. vladcub
    vladcub 28 August 2019 12: 45
    0
    Quote: NEOZ
    Quote: tihonmarine
    There is everything to create, take and do, but some kind of force slows down, as if deliberately.

    here I am, looking at you - there are arms / legs, run and pull, but some kind of force slows down ... as if deliberately ....
    ps
    not personally to you, but to the majority.

    "Lavrenty Pavlovich" to you +: good. Comparison
  30. Undecim
    Undecim 28 August 2019 12: 46
    +2
    According to Demin, the new aircraft, being developed to replace the An-2, should be a monoplane with a high strut wing.
    In this regard, the chief designer Demin did not make a special discovery.

    An-14 "Pchelka" (NATO had a formidable name Clod - "Glyba") - a Soviet light transport aircraft intended to replace the An-2, made its first flight on March 14, 1958. The aircraft had a short takeoff and landing capability and was designed to operate from unprepared unpaved sites.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 28 August 2019 12: 53
      +1
      Decades have passed, but the concept has not changed, just "Pchelki" have reached the modern level.

      "EV-55 Outback" - Czech light multipurpose aircraft for short takeoff and landing.
    2. yehat
      yehat 28 August 2019 14: 24
      +1
      twin-engine aircraft have 3 minuses -
      1. far from always demanded power and excessive consumption
      2. more expensive maintenance
      3. The essence of this scheme is the ability to pull on one engine, but skilled pilots,
      who do not cope well with this by far. And for small aircraft, simplicity and affordability are important.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 28 August 2019 14: 34
        0
        power and excess consumption are not always in demand
        Complete nonsense. You can choose any power. The same EV-55 Outback has two Pratt & Whitney PT6A-21 turboprops with 540 hp each. An-2 has one piston ASh-62 with 1000 hp.
        more expensive maintenance
        Any specific numbers?
        At your glider, according to your concept, maintenance is even cheaper. True, no one builds passenger gliders. Passengers regret.
        the essence of this scheme is the ability to pull on one engine, but skilled pilots,
        who do not cope well with this by far. And for small aircraft, simplicity and affordability are important.

        Any statistics?
        The essence of this scheme is the ability to continue flying on one engine to the nearest landing site. Nowhere is easier. If the pilot does not know how, he has nothing to do in passenger traffic.
        And besides simplicity and accessibility, safety must be respected.
  31. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 28 August 2019 12: 54
    0
    9 passengers - small capacity, more needs to be done.

    More capacity - cheaper ticket, cheaper ticket - more passengers will fly.
  32. Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 28 August 2019 12: 54
    -2
    We will have small aircraft when bureaucrats, like walkers to Lenin, go to the supreme for their two, and vice versa.
  33. Gnefredov
    Gnefredov 28 August 2019 12: 55
    +1
    Quote: Undecim
    And the missing lifting force of the removed wing will be compensated by the gravity
    You can immediately see that you are strong in aerodynamics.
    An-2 flies beautifully and in a monoplane variant.
    .........

    Removing the lower wing allowed to reduce weight by 450 kg. The aerodynamic drag has become less, the wing load has increased. Cruising speed - 210 km / h.


    May I continue for you? (but they didn’t finish it, somehow awkwardly it turns out):
    - Deterioration of water shortage (higher take-off and landing speeds);
    - The large area of ​​the wing of the biplane has a large lifting force, which requires a less powerful engine, and this is the economy of fuel and lubricants (although there are endless debates on this subject);
    - The geometric dimensions of the glider along the diagonals. If you want to get the same VPH on a monoplane, it will be larger, at least in terms of wingspan.
    --
    In general, what are we arguing about? AN-2 has its own niche. Would you like to borrow? Yes please. Just imagine a normal airplane (and not a single sample!) Not inferior in performance characteristics to the AN-2. I’m boiling for anything other than a strike ... And then they attacked the brainchild of Oleg Konstantinovich, the hereditary Siberian who created this model seventy years ago, but there is nothing to offer in return.

    Please change the engine, lighten the airframe design, and finally launch the replacement of the AN-2 into mass production, I’m only for it. In the meantime, there is nothing, behave decently, but what am I talking about, I am not good at aerodynamics, I am in electronics, on which you fly on "iron birds" (and in AN-2 it is not at all). hi
  34. Oyo Sarkazmi
    Oyo Sarkazmi 28 August 2019 13: 10
    +1
    Quote: Dudinka
    That there is supposedly the development of alternative ICE engines with high efficiency, but the oilmen do not give it a go

    Physics does not, not people. Gasoline-kerosene gives a power of up to 2 kW per cm² of piston, while the steam resistance and stirling also interfere with the thermal resistance of the boiler pipes, hydraulic resistance of the liquid and turbulence in the steam lines. The best steam locomotives with triple expansion steam engines have barely 0,5 kW per cm², the cylinder has 1500 hp. has a diameter greater than a meter.
    There is, however, an example of a valid password - Me-162. But there - the working fluid and fuel are combined, a solution of hydrazine in water was mixed with a solution of potassium permanganate in water, pshsh! - and - two minutes to an altitude of 8 thousand meters.
  35. Operator
    Operator 28 August 2019 13: 12
    -2
    "Pony runs in a circle" (C) laughing

    A twin-engine monoplane with a high wing with slot consoles is our everything.
  36. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 13: 17
    0
    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    If all production is concentrated only in the center, then where do people work on the outskirts and in the province?

    not all production is in the center. The only question is redistribution.
    for example, in Latvia, the production of crystal, towels, sprats, door locks, east of the Leningrad region - the RAF plant and a radio factory, preferably not far from St. Petersburg, where there are a lot of suppliers and research institutes.
    and we did the opposite - we sprayed narrow complex competencies on the outskirts, because of which any problems led to the destruction of industries and logistics was enchanting.
    In this case, politics strongly influenced the sober and logical disposition of industry.
    Further, the development of industry of the republics could not be done without mutual conditions.
    If an enterprise is created, on which the entire union is thrown off, it does not become the property of an "independent" or "proud mountainous country", but remains the property of the union with the corresponding obligations. But further, it is already possible to redeem powers by barter.
    A simple example is the Kharkov Tank Plant. This is a 100% company created by the RSFSR, but it suddenly became primordially Ukrainian. even worse example - Sevastopol and Crimea in general.
    or another example is a lithium plant in Kazakhstan. Yes, they would not be able to build this without the RSFSR and maintain at least another 500 years. And as soon as the USSR was divided, the enormous possibilities of mutual supplies and diversification immediately became cut off for the industry of the RSFSR.
    The issue is not in the export of production to the "center", but in normal communications, the location of production so that the economy does not interfere with logistics and centrifugal events in the outskirts. Well, the republic separated with the production of brooms or ice cream - well, okay. And if there is the only bearing plant in the union?
  37. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 13: 19
    0
    Quote: AS Ivanov.
    Annushka has a 75-85 lead.

    on an ordinary field with grass warmed by the sun, the an-2 comes off already by 60.
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 28 August 2019 13: 43
      0
      This is a violation of the RLE. Although, I confess, I myself violated often. The benefit was not written - from the flight recorders one barograph.
      1. yehat
        yehat 28 August 2019 13: 56
        0
        in the first flight on the an-2, the pilot instructor made me fly right in front of the edge of the forest
        I asked - how? I will not stretch, we will crash! But then he was surprised that they took off with a large margin.
        biplanes have fantastic lift
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 28 August 2019 14: 14
          0
          Annushka - a cool car! We on it on AHR didn’t stop it. There is no control, fly, as you know, they themselves painted the barograph tape. The school was good for 30-40 takeoffs and landings per day.
  38. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 13: 29
    0
    Quote: Gnefredov
    The large area of ​​the biplane wing has a large lifting force, which requires a less powerful engine, and this is a fuel and lubricant saving

    here is a slightly different question. the biplane no matter how you twist more drag, but better lift
    if you try to squeeze the maximum speed, the flow will be better with a monoplane.
    the option with 1 wing may be better for transporting not heavy passengers from concrete blocks, and for villages where they can carry a lot of cargo, where unpaved short airfields - a biplane is more justified.
    But the distances are not so large - I think the decrease in speed can be neglected for other advantages.
    For example, I go to my parents 270 km from St. Petersburg on a clogged Murmansk highway. Due to traffic jams and other garbage, such a trip to the 1 end can easily be 5-8 hours, 1 times traveled 11.
    And on the An-2 you can get there STABLE for an hour and a half. And the price is quite reasonable -
    on a regular car it’s about 45 liters of AI-95, for an-2 the consumption for such a flight is 200 liters
    and he carries 12 people. (usually 4 in a car). If you divide 200 liters by 3, you get about 63 liters versus 45 on a car. At the same time, instead of at least 5 + 5 hours on the road (-1 day out of the usual 2 days off), it turns out only 3 and it is really possible to drive normally on weekends with decent comfort. So why are there no such local shipments practically anywhere ???
  39. Karabas
    Karabas 28 August 2019 13: 46
    0
    And this Vadim Demin was interested in the opinion of the consumer? And at the very thinker did not itch, why do people need a biplane? I suspect once again the cerebellum of the effective manager has worked - First we slap, then we rape, but they will not take it - turn off the gas.
  40. Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 28 August 2019 13: 55
    0
    A biplane will always be more reliable and lighter due to light stretch marks. Greedy wolves attacked the old man, who could live and save many lives with mass use, where speed is not particularly needed. This is just another class of aircraft. And who cares about their lives, nobody.
  41. Alex66
    Alex66 28 August 2019 14: 12
    0
    It seems that the new An-2 could not be launched into a series of reasons, it can be different from corruption to technical, or maybe there are no assemblers, vocational schools are closed. If this couldn’t be said about the MS-21, it will repeat the fate of the superjet. It’s a pity there is no person in charge of aviation, only managers, such as Mutko.
  42. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 14: 20
    0
    Quote: Alexander Sosnitsky
    The biplane will always be more reliable and lighter due to light stretch marks.

    most light cars quietly plan without an engine
    but still, what is the most reliable scheme in this regard?
  43. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 14: 25
    0
    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    9 passengers - small capacity, more needs to be done.

    More capacity - cheaper ticket, cheaper ticket - more passengers will fly.

    here the question is for purposes. far from everywhere you need to carry even 8 passengers.
    and occupancy of flights is also a question.
    I confess dabbled in calculations of profitability of the organization of flights of small aircraft
    and I’ll say that the An-2 is redundant - even it is too big.
    but on the other hand, here's a simple example
    Now the Yak-40 freight (40 seats) on the flight MSK-SPB-MSK costs 480 thousand rubles. (this is not very profitable)
    the average minimum ticket price is about 6-7 tr.
    And the Yak-40 is quite expensive to operate, the An-2 is very much cheaper.
    Peregrine Falcon costs the cheapest about the same, and half the tickets are sold from 17t.r. and goes 3 times longer.
    I just threw you approximate payback limits.
  44. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 14: 38
    0
    Quote: Undecim
    Any statistics?

    there is from Ukraine. 10 small-scale pilots account for no more than 3 who can handle this with confidence.
    and this is a limitation when they choose their cars.
    the problem is that most of these aircraft are very short and the effect of the engine, unlike a large aircraft, is noticeably greater.
    A number of small private twin-engine airplanes generally have a problem - they lack the size of control planes or there are no control lever amplifiers to reliably compensate for displacement.
    I just watched recently about this vidos. and specifically to the An-14, this question is interesting.
  45. yehat
    yehat 28 August 2019 15: 05
    0
    Quote: Oo sarcasm
    Only 5% of the population of Japan lives in Hokkaido. Well, the Japanese do not like the cold, because there is no stove in their paper-rack houses.

    in hokkaido, the highest proportion of ainu among the population of japan in japan
    and most living people receive substantial subsidies for living there.
    the Japanese do not live on this island - they only need it to control territories and marine resources.
    I saw an interview with a Japanese grandfather.
    he said that with government subsidies he bought a boat (fishing seafaring boat), maintains a house and lives there
    he doesn’t even need to work, just being present on the island.
    In addition, there are special government people who take care that this grandfather does not have unnecessary household problems such as mail, garbage collection and shopping.
  46. nikolai.soot
    nikolai.soot 29 August 2019 02: 45
    0
    In general, aviation should be divided into two classes: 1) traditional aviation; 2) electric aviation; . Electric aviation flies on powerful hybrid high-revving (diesel-kerosene-gas) high-voltage electric motors contactlessly and contactlessly on autopilot at a speed of 2200-3200 km / h and military at hypersonic speed of 30 thousand km / h with missile launch and launch spacecraft using combat lasers; on an ideally super direct direct high-voltage power line (10-110-220-330-500-750-1150) STRUNA from Moscow to Khabarovsk (South America-Alaska-Moscow-Paris or Hanoi-Beijing-Moscow-Paris)
  47. yehat
    yehat 29 August 2019 10: 51
    0
    Quote: Gritsa
    Quote: yehat
    Back in school, when I studied economic geography, I was greatly surprised at the inefficiency of the location of industry.

    Not everything can be adjusted to the same standards. Economic geography is not a stupid science either, and the location of the plants was thought out. I can give a lot of examples.
    And in Japan, the components were located within a radius of 150 km because within a radius of 152 km. there was already a sea laughing

    In addition to Japan, I can give American examples of production chain planning
  48. E.S.
    E.S. 29 August 2019 12: 42
    0
    Quote: Gritsa
    Quote: E.S.
    Calm, only calm! (c) Czechs no longer have all copyrights :-)

    From this plane did not cease to be Czech. And never will be Russian. Only the nameplate, crookedly fastened by the Ural workers, will be Russian there.

    Oh, II-naturlich!
    Created by order of the USSR from materials created
    and certified in the USSR, still alive now solely because the Russians bought everything with giblets, an airplane equipped with 100% Russian avionics and flying for a year on Russian engines is a great achievement of the great Czech aviation industry!