Go to the battle self-propelled - "Hypericus" against "Ferdinand"

48
Many of our compatriots, mainly, of course, from among the older generation, remember the beautiful film created in the late 60s about the Great Patriotic War under the saying “In war as in war”, where a short and tragic page from life was fairly reliably shown one of the crews of the self-propelled artillery installation SU-85. What kind of military equipment was this, which, out of ignorance, many civilians often call mainly a tank, and experts call simply and shortly "self-propelled guns"?

Go to the battle self-propelled - "Hypericus" against "Ferdinand"
The ACS SU-152, Major Sankovsky, commander of one of the batteries of the ACS of the 13 Army. His crew destroyed in the first battle during the Kursk battle 10 enemy tanks[/ Center]

Yes, the SAU is really the sister of the tank, but, nevertheless, this is not a tank, the SAU does not have a tower and such a powerful reservation as a tank, and the tactics of using the SAU also differs from the tank one, according to the combat regulations of the self-propelled was the artillery fire support of their troops from closed firing positions, the fight against enemy tanks and the direct fire support of infantry on the battlefield, firing direct fire, it actually happened that the SAU units were thrown into battle just like tanks, due to the absence or lack of the latter.

The main advantage of the self-propelled gun is its gun, and the guns of the self-propelled guns were much more powerful than tank guns and had a much longer range of fire, thus being tank crews according to the conditions of service and some similar features of actions in the battlefield the years of the Second World War to artillery, and even now they are. After the war, in the Soviet Army officers for self-propelled artillery, given the specifics of this weapon, were trained in a special separate artillery school in Sumy, Ukraine.

At the beginning of the war, the Red Army practically had no SAU in its armament, so there were some almost experienced specimens and nothing more, but the Germans had full order in this matter, at the beginning of the invasion of the USSR territory they already had the so-called assault guns stug. Sturmgeshütz, which was the main and most massive self-propelled gun of the German army, starting from 1940 to 1945 a year, the Germans produced and sent these self-propelled guns to the 8636 troops, most of which had 75-mm guns in service. It is also known from German sources that it was these SAUs that they had the main anti-tank means and the main means of infantry support on the battlefield, the same German sources claim that during the whole war almost 20 of thousands of Soviet tanks and SAU were destroyed using these assaults, the figure huge and, apparently, it is close to reality.

They had many other types of self-propelled guns and assault guns, but their number was not so significant as compared to assaults, and the production of the most sophisticated models of the type “Ferdinand-Elephant”, “Yagdpanther” and “Yagdtigrov” were in general among the Germans, and and did fit the definition of prototypes.

German heavy self-propelled guns “Jagdpanther” on the march in the French city of Burgteruld-Enfrville


German heavy tank destroyer "Jagdtigr" from the 653-th battalion of tank destroyers, abandoned by the Germans in Neustadt (Neustadt an der Weinstraße)


StuG III Ausf. F 6 th field army of the Wehrmacht near Kharkov


All of these storms at the Germans were reduced to battalions, each of which included three batteries, each had 6 such assault guns, and all in the German tank forces at the initial stage of the war were StuG battalions, which counted only 6 guns. They were all dispersed as part of the armies "North", "Center" and "South". Having a fairly small size and having received a long-barreled 108 mm gun and protective side screens after another upgrade, this assault gun successfully and very effectively fought against Soviet tanks, even against T-75 and KV, cautiously sneaking up, cleverly using the ground folds, German assaults, not being able to take the Soviet medium tank head-on, like bumblebees stinging and hitting him in the stern and sides, thus incapacitating not only the T-34, but also the HF, they smashed the last caterpillar, but support for infantry, even its BC and the 34% consisted of fragmentation shells.

Our first SAU, finally, appeared only at the beginning of 1943 of the year - it is the famous SU-76M, it was intended for fire support of infantry on the battlefield and was used as a light assault gun or PT-SAU. The car was so successful that it almost completely replaced all the light tanks, which in the initial period of the war supported our infantry so badly on the battlefield.

Soviet self-propelled artillery mounts Su-76M in Vienna, Austria


Soviet infantry, supported by ACS SU-76, is attacking German positions in the Königsberg area


Over the years of the war, 360 SU-76 and 13292 SU-76М were produced, which made up almost 60% of the production of all self-propelled artillery during the years of the Great Patriotic War.

Su-76 received its baptism of fire at the Kursk Bulge, the main armament of this SAU was its universal divisional weapon ZIS-3.

A sub-caliber projectile of this gun at a distance of half a kilometer was able to penetrate armor up to 91 mm thick, so this weapon could hit any part of the German medium tank corps, as well as the Tigers and Panthers, but only from a distance no more than on 500 meters, therefore, to hit a German tank, the crew had to first choose a good position, disguise itself, and after several shots instantly leave it and move to a spare, otherwise they could not survive, it was not for nothing that the fighters gave the weapon their name “Death Gu, kaput calculation! ”And so they fought, the infantry fell in love with this simple machine, as it is always safer to attack when a gun-tank crawls near you, ready at any moment to suppress a revived firing point, or even repel the attack of tanks.

Especially great these self-propelled guns showed themselves when storming populated areas, where there were a lot of debris and limited driveways, where tanks and more powerful self-propelled guns could not pass because of their size, and fire support for infantry, oh, was necessary and here the proceeds to the infantry, as always, came the ubiquitous and irreplaceable SU-76.

The roof of this miracle was not a weapon, but, on the contrary, it was a big plus, because the conning tower had an excellent overview of the battlefield, and if necessary it was possible to easily leave the padded car, so that in the rain the fighters covered their SU from above instead of a roof with a canvas top like a cabriolet, inside there was always a DT machine gun, a BK projectile for a gun, and a personal weapon and personal belongings of the crew, dry rations and, of course, a photo of the girl’s favorite ACS driver, usually attached to the side wall near the dashboard.

With all the positive qualities of this Soviet assault gun, war is war, as recalled by front-line soldiers, because of their gasoline engines, when they hit enemy shells, these SU-76 burned quickly and brightly, the main thing was to quickly jump out of the ACS, if, of course, you were lucky, you survived and you can run aside, otherwise you will suffer from the explosion of your own BC. When fighting in the city of the SU-76 self-propelled guns, another attack awaited, you had to constantly twist your head around all 360 degrees, otherwise some snotty Volkssturm player could easily have thrown one or even several grenades out of the window of the house directly into the conning tower. Of course, you miss the mark and you don’t have time to shoot him in time, otherwise it’s gonna be a trouble, the BC can explode and again everyone will have to jump out of the car, these are the harsh realities of the war.

By the spring of 1943, the Soviet command had come to the disappointing conclusion for itself that the Red Army did not have, it turns out now there were tanks and other anti-tank weapons capable of reliably striking the German armored personnel carrier from a distance farther than 500 meters, being carried away by the number, our tank builders completely forgot about the quality and further improvement of their BTTs, and the Germans, it turns out, did not sit with arms folded, but, having made the right conclusions for the last two years of the war, they carried out a substantial modernization of all the BTTs that they had at the time, plus besides, they also developed new, more powerful and modern types of tanks and SPGs. As a result, the Red Army tank forces had to go into battle near Kursk with the fact that they had at that time their armament, and this was mainly on T-34-76, KV, and even with a bunch of various light tanks like T-70 and t .P.

Commander-in-Chief I.V. Stalin personally examines the "Hypericum" SU-152


Soviet SU-152 self-propelled artillery mounts in firing position. Western front


Soviet heavy self-propelled artillery installation SU-152 is being pushed to a new position. 2 Baltic Front, 1944 year


Interior self-propelled installation SU-152. In the foreground is a massive breech of the ML-152 20-mm howitzer cannon with an open piston gate. Behind her, at his workplace, is the commander of the machine, in front of the open landing hatch of which the panorama PTK-4 is installed. Kursk arc


By the beginning of the Kursk battle, the troops managed to put up only a few separate heavy self-propelled regiments (OTSAP) SU-152. Each such regiment was armed with a 21 self-propelled gun as part of 4 batteries for 5 machines plus one commander. These heavy SAUs were intended mainly for the destruction of field and long-term fortifications, combat tanks at long distances, support for infantry and tanks in the offensive. Only these self-propelled guns were able to fight on equal terms with all types of German tanks.

Acting in defense mainly from ambushes, SU-152 showed that there is no such enemy equipment that they could not destroy. 152-mm armor-piercing shells smashed medium German tanks Pz Kpfw T-III and Pz Kpfw T-IV, the armor of the new "Tigers" and "Panthers" also could not oppose these projectiles. Often, in the absence of armor-piercing shells, high-explosive or concrete-borne tanks were shot at the enemy’s tanks. When hit in the tower, a high-explosive shell tore it from the shoulder strap. There were moments when these towers literally flew in the air. Finally, the SU-152 was the only Soviet combat vehicle capable of successfully resisting the formidable German self-propelled gun Ferdinand, or, as it was called, Elephant. What was this monster about which so many legends and rumors circulated?

For example, it is known from German sources that he had 88-mm rifled gun in his armament, his BC included 50-55 armor-piercing projectiles with a mass of 10,16 kg and initial speed 1000 m / s, which were pierced at a distance in 1000 m 165-mm armor, and a sub-caliber projectile of this SAU with a mass of 7,5 kg and an initial speed of 1130 m / s - pierced 193-mm armor, which provided Ferdinand with an unconditional defeat of any of the existing tanks, frontal booking of the elephant itself reached 200 mm.

German self-propelled gun "Ferdinand" on the Kursk Bulge


German heavy self-propelled gun Ferdinand and its crew


Burning ignited German ACS "Ferdinand". District Kursk Bulge


Fortunately, the Germans didn’t have many such miraculous weapons near Kursk, only two divisions, one to the start of the battle had 45, and the second had 44 Ferdinand, total 89 units. Both divisions were under the operational control of the 41 tank corps and participated in heavy battles on the northern face of the Kursk Bulge against Rokossovsky troops in the area of ​​Ponyri station and the village of Teploi, so the stories about the hundreds of fighting Ferninadov-Elephanants are a myth and nothing more.

According to the results of the survey, representatives of the GAU and NIBT of the Red Army Ground immediately after the end of the main phase of the 15 battle on July 1943, it is known that most of the Ferdinands were blown up in minefields, and 21 units were discovered. damaged and lined, five of them had damage to the chassis caused by hitting 76-mm projectiles and more. In two German self-propelled guns, the gun barrels were shot through with shells and bullets of anti-tank guns. One car was destroyed even by a direct hit of an aerial bomb, and another by a 203-mm howitzer projectile hit the roof of the wheelhouse.

And only one German monster of this type got a hole in its board in the area of ​​the drive wheel directly from the tank fire, as it turned out, seven tanks T-34 and a whole battery of 76-mm guns fired from different directions at once during the battle, It turns out that one elephant fought against almost a company of tanks and a VET battery? And it was the other way around, when one Ferdinand, which had no damage to the hull and chassis, was set on fire just with an ordinary incendiary bottle thrown by our infantrymen, a successful throw by a penny bottle and a fighting vehicle worth several million German reyshmaks turned into a pile gland.

The only deserving opponent of heavy German self-propelled guns on the Kursk fields turned out to be the Soviet SU-152 "St. John's Wort". It was the regiment of our “Hypericides” SU-152 that met 8 on July 1943, the attacking “Ferdinands” of the 653-th division, at the same time knocking out four enemy vehicles. The “St. John's Wort” was inferior to the “Ferdinand” in the rate of fire and booking, so the German crew managed to make two, or even all three shots, since the shells of the German SAU had a weight from 7,5 to 16 kg, and we had all 43 kg !!! Those who served in tank crews know how it’s not easy to manually load an 115-mm or even 100-mm tank gun, get a projectile out of a bout and then send it to the breech, and all this in a closed, dark BO space , and what was the charging SU-152, he had to first put a shell in the tray, s the charge, the ammunition at the gun of this SU was separate, and only after all these manipulations was it possible to send the finished art-shot at the breech of the gun, and the gunner could find the target, aim and fire a shot so that, unfortunately, our gunners did not always have time time to respond to a shot with a shot, but a forty-kilogram projectile of any type, successfully launched from SU-152, and later from ISU-152, hit everything and everyone, even the high-explosive projectile sent to the same Ferdinand without piercing its armor, nevertheless less was able to shake it up Ania, an instrument of the German self-propelled guns frustrated with fixtures, and the crew lost the ability to navigate in space, had only one thing, it sent this bishop to repair the Reich, and the crew, either in hospital or in a madhouse.

The Ferdinand heavy assault gun, the 723 airborne unit from the 654 Division (battalion), shot down in the 1 May state farm area. The caterpillar was destroyed and the cannon was jammed. The machine was part of the “Major Cal strike group” as part of the 505 heavy tank battalion of the 654 division


In total, in July - August 1943, the Germans lost the Ferdinands 39. The last trophies went to the Red Army already on the outskirts of Orel - at the railway station several of the damaged Eleants were captured for the evacuation.

The first battles of “Ferdinand” at the Kursk Bulge were, in essence, the last, where these SAUs were used in large quantities. From a tactical point of view, their use left much to be desired. Created for the extermination of Soviet medium and heavy tanks at long distances, the Germans used them only as an advanced "armor shield", blindly ramming engineering barriers and anti-tank defenses, while suffering heavy losses, thus finding out that the Germans themselves were completely and did not understand how to properly apply this modern, expensive and very powerful weapon of that time.



But still more powerful than an elephant, the German tank destroyer, the so-called Jagdtigr was recognized as the most powerful anti-tank weapon of the Second World War, it was created on the basis of the T-VI tank, the Royal Tiger. The armament of the tank destroyer was 128-mm semi-automatic anti-aircraft gun, “Jagdtigr” could hit enemy tanks at a distance of almost 2 500 m. !!! The booking of the tank destroyer was very strong, so, the frontal armor of the hull reached 150 mm and felling almost 250 mm !!! side walls of the hull and wheelhouse - 80 mm. The release of this car began in the middle of 1944, but there were few such monsters, literally things, released, so in March, 1945. against our allies on the Western front, there were only a little more than 20 units, the American tankers felt the killing effect of these "tigroids" when the Germans without much difficulty struck from a distance of almost three kilometers, this marvel of military equipment to amaze, according to experts, even some types of modern tanks.

[
size = 1] A column of Soviet self-propelled guns on the march in East Prussia. In the foreground, SU-85, in the background - SU-85М (distinguished by the details of the tool mask)


The camp of the Soviet troops in the Red Selo. In the foreground are two ACS SU-85. They are followed by a truck and another combat vehicle (tank or SPG). In the background, to the right of the tank T-34 and trucks


In 1944, the Red Army was armed with, finally, a real fighter of German tanks - this is the famous SU-100, replacing the good, but already outdated SU-85.

From November 1944, the medium self-propelled artillery regiments of the Red Army began to be re-equipped with new self-propelled guns. Each regiment had a 21 machine. At the end of 1944, the formation of SU-100 self-propelled artillery brigades for 65 ACS each began. The regiments and brigades of the SU-100 took part in the hostilities of the final period of the Great Patriotic War.

The high point of this self-propelled gun came at the beginning of 1945, in the hardest battles at Lake Balaton, when the German führer put everything on the map and threw the color of his tank army into battle. It was during the Balaton operation in March 1945. Su-100 was used in massive quantities in repulsing the last major German counteroffensive on the territory of Hungary.

SAU SU-100 Lieutenant Alferov in ambush. Lake Velence District


Shot in board Pz.Kpfw VI Ausf. B “Tiger II”, tactical number of 331, commander of 3 company Rolf von Westernhagen of 501 th battalion of heavy tanks, operating as part of the SS 1 th tank corps. Padded with battery SU-100 under the command of Captain Vasilyev (1952 th self-propelled artillery regiment). On board, you can see the number (93) of the Soviet trophy team. Hungary, Lake Balaton area


Our self-propelled guns acted very competently and skillfully, mostly from ambushes, like a predatory beast on a hunt, Su-100 from shelters and ambushes with its powerful tool pierced through almost all German armored vehicles that the Germans threw at a breakthrough so that they could succeed, even in some places we managed to cut the defenses of our troops, but the offensive was exhausted and stopped, there was no one to enter the breakthrough, all German tanks were simply knocked out, even replica of the Yagdpanter and Yagdtigrov types did not help them, they all fell under the blows of SU-100 and T-34-85 As a result, the always disciplined German infantry began its unauthorized withdrawal to its original positions.

Thus, during the Second World War, only two armies in the world had really modern and effective self-propelled guns on their arms - the Red Army and the German Wehrmacht, the rest of the states were able to solve the issues of providing their troops with self-propelled artillery systems only after the war ended.

Studying all the new and new details of the past Great War, you still can not stop wondering what a strong enemy our fathers and grandfathers defeated, against which powerful and modern weapons they managed to resist.

Eternal memory to the soldiers and commanders of the Red Army who fell in battles on the battlefields of the Second World War.
48 comments
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  1. +38
    7 July 2012 09: 50
    The article is interesting, informative, but with a few factual errors.
    1. Great superiority of self-propelled guns on tanks in the power of guns was only in 43 and the beginning of 44 years. Then appeared the SU-122 and SU-152, and in the fall of 43 and Su-85. T-34 and KV tanks had a 76,2 mm gun. But already at the beginning of 44, the IS-1, IS-2 heavy tank began to enter the troops, and a little later the T-34-85. The IS-2 tank gun with a caliber of 122 mm exceeded all SAU guns except the SU-152.
    When they started making ISU-152, then due to a shortage of 152 mm guns, 122 mm guns were also put on the chassis of the IS.
    In the second half of 44, old tanks with a 76,2 mm cannon disappeared from units and formations. But the self-propelled gun Su-76M with the same gun reached the end of the war.
    2. By the summer of 1943, self-propelled regiments had a heterogeneous composition. In one of the variants of the state, the regiment had 12 Su-122 and 9 SU-76, in another from 12 to 16 SU-152. A single state was introduced only in 1944, when the number of cars became sufficient. So, for example, tank and mechanized corps received three regiments SU-76, SU-122 and SU-152. In each of 21 cars.
    3. The Germans, after the summer campaign and Operation Citadel, "began to experience difficulties with the production of tanks and self-propelled guns. In addition, they were unable to organize the production of a high-quality reliable vehicle of the same type. In 1944-45, the Germans had 7 types of anti-tank self-propelled guns." Hetzer, "Jagdpanther", "Jagdtiger", "Shtug", "Elephant", "Marder", Noskhorn ". Plus trophy and self-propelled guns made on the basis of vehicles from satellite countries.
    4. As it happens in a war, victory in battles and battles is determined not only and not by the type of armored vehicles and their characteristics, but by the structure of the troops, training of command personnel, and strategic initiative.
    So it was at 41, when the Germans moved forward, not paying attention to the T-34 and KV, it was like that at 44-45, when ours crushed the Germans with their Royal Tigers, Panthers, Ferdinand, etc.
    And ours won anyway, because they surpassed the enemy in skill, strength and reserves. What will we rejoice and praise our ancestors for many, many years, who have defended the country, which we have stupidly slandered!
    1. grizzlir
      +3
      7 July 2012 10: 23
      Quote: erased
      In the second half of 44, old tanks with a 76,2 mm cannon disappeared from units and formations. But the self-propelled gun Su-76M with the same gun reached the end of the war.

      The caliber is the same, the characteristics of the 76 mm tank gun and the ZIS-3 gun which stood on the SU-76 are slightly different.
      1. +1
        10 July 2012 23: 04
        I SEEED SOME PICTURES OF THE T-34 OF THE 43rd YEAR ISSUE ON THE STREETS OF BERLIN ...... POSSIBLE EVEN ON THIS SITE, AS THEY HAVE ALREADY FOUND EUROPE, POSSIBLE NOT ONE ATTACK SPEED, AND SOMETHING STOPPED AGAIN. .... AND MANZURIA ALSO CLICKED.
    2. Prohor
      +1
      7 July 2012 10: 27
      I may be wrong, but I read somewhere that in 1941 a Soviet driver was considered "ready" after 3 hours of driving on a tank; he studied German for at least two months! And the multiple superiority of the USSR in tanks in 41, unfortunately, turned out to be "zilch".
      When I served in 96-98 it was, alas, the same ...
      1. grizzlir
        +7
        7 July 2012 10: 47
        Perhaps there were cases when unprepared crews put in leverage, but two of my cousins ​​went through the war with thirty-four mechanized watercrafts. One started fighting at 41m, the second at 43m and only after training in a tank school. And they taught them for about six months, I remember that they taught how they spoke well, but fed .... Hunger in those days was a common occurrence.
        1. +1
          10 July 2012 14: 50
          Quote: grizzlir
          And they taught them somewhere for six months,

          My father also said that he was trained as a gunner for an anti-tank gun for six months.
      2. +1
        7 July 2012 19: 58
        I read somewhere that in 1941 a Soviet driver was considered "ready" after 3 hours of driving a tank

        Dear colleague Sergey, partly you are right. There was such an order, in order to preserve the motor resources of new tanks (T-34 and KV), the training of driver mechanics should be carried out on old tank models (T-26, BT and T-28) and only 3 hours on new ones.
        1. +1
          10 July 2012 23: 10
          THIS IS CLOSER TO THE TRUTH, BY THE way AND IN OUR TIMES ON THE RESPONSE TO THE TECHNIQUE HAPPENING VERY FAST.
      3. 0
        10 July 2012 23: 08
        THIS JOURNALOGU THINKED THIS .... THE TYPE OF SPORT AT THESE WHO SUCH AS MORE EXPECTED, ONE REMEMBER STATED THAT THE MONTH PREPARED ANOTHER COUPLE OF WEEKS AND FURTHER.
    3. frolovvgg
      +1
      7 July 2012 15: 33
      It’s you who correctly said that we have prosralized our country !!! And who screams that the victory came at the cost of heavy losses and that everything was not as it could be ... I want to ask, but do you have something to oppose that generation? There is nothing...
      1. Prohor
        -5
        7 July 2012 17: 52
        Yes, we could not without great losses! The Germans had to be driven without respite to Berlin, they had to be unceasingly crushed at any cost!
        And what about "the country pissed off" .... You can’t fuck up what is historically not ready to proseratsya! The USSR actually did not exist in 1991, alas ...
      2. 0
        18 January 2018 14: 08
        The country did not prosrai. Build yes. Empire remained. If you change your last name, you will become Pupkin, but nothing more.
  2. grizzlir
    +12
    7 July 2012 09: 53
    If I understand something in self-propelled guns of the times of the Second World War, then in the film: In a war, as in a war, the main role is played by the SU-100 and not the SU-85
    1. Prohor
      +3
      7 July 2012 10: 22
      It is she!
    2. +2
      7 July 2012 10: 41
      You are right, dear colleague Victor.
    3. +6
      7 July 2012 11: 36
      You understand correctly in self-propelled guns but according to the book, the heroes of this work served on SU-85, this is what the author of the article meant ..............
      1. +5
        7 July 2012 18: 10
        That's right, dear byrnas. The book featured SU-85. In the film of the same name shot SU-100.
        By the way, the SU-100 is still not officially withdrawn from service. Here is such an interesting fact. There is another sample still not officially withdrawn from service. True, it refers not to armored vehicles, but to small arms - this is the SVT-40 (self-loading rifle of the Tokarev system arr. 1940) ...
        1. +2
          7 July 2012 20: 03
          I was aware of the Su-100, but I did not know about the SVT-40. Thank you colleague Vasily for interesting information.
          1. +2
            7 July 2012 21: 30
            Yes, it’s kind of like nothing special, colleague Gamdlislyam. smile
    4. +2
      8 July 2012 15: 30
      Maybe the author bases his thought on the book of V. Kurochkin, and not on the film? His hero Sasha Maleshkin was the commander of the SU-85. And in the film the SU-100 was really used
  3. +3
    7 July 2012 10: 02
    Eternal memory to our tankers and self-propelled guns! And how many "people" are now who glorify German cars and pour crap on ours, there are a lot of such bastards now, especially on the Internet.
    1. Prohor
      +5
      7 July 2012 10: 21
      And these "sprinklers" are easy to calm down: in the post-war years, not a single German tank, not a single self-propelled gun was born a single heir! Not a single country used a scheme with an engine compartment in the rear and a transmission in front, an almost square layout of the "Tiger", medium-caliber and anti-tank guns in fact. Nobody!
      All serial tanks of the 2nd half of the 20th century are the heirs of the T-34 and IS-2. good
  4. grizzlir
    +5
    7 July 2012 10: 34
    What is noteworthy, Stalin paid great attention to military equipment and personally inspected new models of weapons. He personally assessed the crew’s workplaces. Today’s shots, the Minister of Defense with a triple chin walks casually in front of samples of military equipment. how to touch a leper, he’ll suddenly smear delicate fingers or an expensive suit. There are no words about the leaders of an even higher rank, though one likes to twist small arms with the appearance of a baby who was given a new toy.
    All this shows who and how much attention was paid to the development and equipment of our aircraft.
  5. panzer
    +2
    7 July 2012 10: 40
    Morozov once remarked that the most difficult part in the development of armored vehicles is to maintain a balance between firepower, armor, and mobility. Skewing to one side will weaken the entire structure as a whole. In my opinion, the Germans made this mistake - having excellent guns of their tanks and self-propelled guns, they could not solve the problems with the chassis.
    1. +1
      10 July 2012 23: 15
      The Germans tried to create a fortress on wheels, and our war chariot.
  6. Brother Sarych
    +2
    7 July 2012 11: 00
    The author has a good attitude, but there are enough various inaccuracies throughout the article ...
  7. Alx1miK
    0
    7 July 2012 13: 50
    Nice to look at.
    1. Owl
      +3
      7 July 2012 16: 02
      Especially on "Royal Tiger", filmed near Lake Balaton ...
  8. +5
    7 July 2012 17: 25
    good article, but strange. There are guns, there is armor, but Karsa is not! request
    1. 0
      7 July 2012 18: 26
      On vacation, probably bully
  9. +2
    7 July 2012 18: 12
    And the material is more than interesting and voluminous. There would be more such articles and authors on the site. Without any doubt, respect to the author and a tremendous "+" material ... smile
  10. +3
    7 July 2012 19: 59
    the article is very good, despite some inaccuracies! but in my opinion, a movie, not a war as in a war ,,, is the best film on this subject and the strongest !!!!!! this is how to shoot, not any white tigers !!! ps ..... by the way and where is our full-time tank-Kars ,, ???? wink
    1. +1
      7 July 2012 21: 34
      He was also quite surprised by this circumstance. Maybe the site administration will at least somehow explain this uncertain situation ... wink
      For a few days ago a vague info flashed about the bath of our respected colleague on the site with a nickname Kars...
  11. Yemelya
    -1
    7 July 2012 20: 04
    Having read the first paragraph, I realized that it’s pointless to read further - the article, like many others on the site, is a collection of cuts of information (sometimes unreliable), stereotypes + not always correctly signed photos, that are so known to everyone.
  12. +1
    7 July 2012 21: 57
    In the subject! My first military specialty was a mechanic - a driver of heavy self-propelled artillery mounts and heavy tanks! These were ISU-152K and IS-3.
    Also on the basis of heavy self-propelled guns were tactical missile launchers.
    The regiment received a baptism of fire near Prokhorovka. Our company foreman went through the whole war with the regiment.
    So I know this kind of strands firsthand. And the crews were five people each. One would guess to load such a cannon. After the shot, two minutes like in a cellar. Despite the exhaust fans. As we were told, one shot — a pair of chrome boots flew away. In 1967, it was.
    And in the film there were "Bitches" or Su-100. on the basis of "bicycles" or "flat feet" they called the middle people because of the mountain brake pedal. And 34 ki from the design of the tracks. There were also "floats" and "irons" and "cabinets". In general, "in war as in war"
  13. prispek
    +3
    7 July 2012 21: 59
    I did not find anything new for myself in the article. Well. except for photos. And so, the usual article. From childhood I remember the film "In War, As In War", in my opinion the best film with the participation of armored vehicles. Particularly impressive was the episode of the march (watched in the movies on the big screen) of self-propelled vehicles. Such power, such shooting - frost on the skin. Probably from then on he became interested in armored vehicles. By the way, the film was not played for a very long time, does anyone know why? [quote = Nuar] There are guns, there is armor, but Karsa is not! [/ quote]
    [quote = datur] by the way and where is our full-time tank-Kars ,, ????
    During the discussion of the article "German main tank Leopard-1" I also asked. They answered me: banned
  14. +1
    7 July 2012 23: 52
    "The SPG is really the tank's sister, but, nevertheless, it is far from a tank, the SPG does not have a turret and such a powerful armor as a tank."

    especially in the American "Sluggers" and Volverin "with" Achilles ". There were rotating towers and they were booked at the most I can not. The ACS differs from the tank primarily in combat missions
    1. 0
      8 July 2012 00: 05
      "due to weak armor and insufficiently powerful guns, they could not fight the new German tanks." it says about Vulverin
      http://zw-observer.narod.ru/books/cannon/self-propelled_artillery_Wolverine_M10.

      html

      "the crew and part of the ammunition were located in an open turret and were vulnerable to shell fragments, mines and air attacks" this is also about Wolverin-Wolverine
      http://www.wow-2.ru/ptsau.php?id=%CC10%20%ABWolverine%BB
      And you call this booked were the most?
    2. +1
      10 July 2012 23: 17
      PETROL ENGINES FORGOTTEN.
  15. mind1954
    +2
    8 July 2012 03: 49
    Why be surprised? If you look, all reeking of fascism,
    TV channel "Culture", then since 1917 we have had everything in spite of!
    And education contrary to, and not thanks to the new government,
    And science is contrary, not thanks
    And the culture is contrary, not thanks
    And industry contrary to, not thanks to,
    And they defeated in spite of, and restored in spite of,
    And into space contrary to, etc., .. to complete insanity !!! !

    Well, since 1985, I think finally,
    EVERYTHING THANKS TO THE NEW AUTHORITY !!!

    In general, the Germans still from France, so honed the interaction
    infantry from their StuG III and tanks from the Yu-87 that stumble upon something,
    so immediately called, sneakers! Such neat and comrades, damn them!
    And the direct connection has been worked out!
    Of course, ours, in the initial period, had a hard time with them.
  16. 8 company
    +2
    8 July 2012 15: 33
    Paradox: ours at the beginning of the war had T-34 and KV, clearly superior to all German tanks, and there were not so few of them - about 1943. At the same time, the Germans dealt with them in most cases simply. In XNUMX, the Germans had a set of tanks and self-propelled guns, clearly superior to Soviet armored vehicles, but this time ours dealt with them in most cases simply. Look at the Kursk Bulge - the complete superiority of the operational tactical art of the Red Army, no particular problems. Which once again confirms the immortal phrase of Professor Preobrazhensky: the devastation is not in the closet, it is in the heads.
  17. +3
    8 July 2012 19: 34
    And once again I am offended ...
    two cultures, almost symbiosis - Russian and German ...
    for 20 centuries twice ... ran into each other ... to death.
    Both have reached such heights in technology - Mama Do not Cry ...
    Now is the 21st century ... the fruits of those breakthroughs, 50 years ago - they use naklosaksa !!!
    Well, not annoying, huh?
    And, all the rest ... hangers-on ... once again Germany .. take away.
    Help - did not help (Spain, Portugal, Greece, Hungary) - in that war.
    And now - just open the bread .... well, give me the money, well, Merkel.
    In addition, the Germans, like sworn ones, feed and feed Israel.
    ...
    In a nation ... worse than us Russians.
    The same ... self-absorbing. She will gobble up herself.
    For the sake of ... capital.
  18. amph1cyon
    +1
    8 July 2012 20: 55
    No wonder they say war is the engine of progress. Remember what our armies were at the beginning of the war with and what they ended up with.
  19. Russian94
    +2
    8 July 2012 21: 52
    It seems that Ferdinand is the basic configuration of the German sau, and the Elephant already gave them the name after the Ferdinand were repaired and modernized at the Nibelungenwerke factory.
  20. Prohor
    0
    9 July 2012 08: 37
    In the 30s, the German von Haushoffer put forward the theory that the countries of Germany and Russia, far from the seas, accustomed to living their work, should unite and break the colonial sea robbers: the USA, Great Britain and others.
    He explained this from some kind of philosophical and historical perspective. Perhaps there is a reasonable grain in this! We lost tens of millions of people, both countries were destroyed to the ground, and these pee-pee-pee ones were "welded" on all this ...
  21. Panzer UA
    0
    9 July 2012 12: 14
    Quote: Prokhor

    And these "sprinklers" are easy to calm down: in the post-war years, not a single German tank, not a single self-propelled gun was born a single heir! Not a single country used a scheme with an engine compartment in the rear and a transmission in front, an almost square layout of the "Tiger", medium-caliber and anti-tank guns in fact. Nobody!
    All serial tanks of the 2nd half of the 20th century are the heirs of the T-34 and IS-2.

    I agree with you that our tanks are the best, but the German scheme after the war was very much used by the French. You just have to look at their post-war samples, they are all the same "panthers" and tigers "
  22. USNik
    0
    9 July 2012 15: 37
    The article is good, but is it a "translator for soap", or is it just an article written in Albany?
  23. ampere
    +3
    9 July 2012 21: 57
    Good review article. The author competently covered the whole subject without going into technical jungle. Already anyone interested in closer, he will find.
  24. +15
    7 November 2017 21: 45
    Good article
  25. 0
    3 May 2018 20: 36
    self-propelled guns do not have a tower and such a powerful reservation like a tank
    Self-propelled guns can have a stronger reservation, cham tank.