In China, compared the new aircraft carrier with the Varyag purchased from Ukraine

Aviation the wing of a promising Chinese aircraft carrier will increase by 50% compared with the number of aircraft on the Liaolin aircraft carrier. Liaoning is a former heavy aircraft carrier Varyag purchased from Ukraine. The Russian "Admiral Kuznetsov" was built with him on the same project.

Earlier this month, the promising Chinese aircraft carrier 001A passed its seventh test in the Yellow Sea. The Chinese publication South China Morning Post evaluated the potential of the new ship, comparing it with the aircraft carrier Liaolin already available to the PRC. According to the author of the article, the promising ship is superior to the former Soviet Varyag, bought by the PRC from Ukraine.

According to the data published in the article, the 001A type will receive a wing from 36 J-15 fighters. Liaolin has 24 aircraft on board. The new aircraft carrier is an upgraded version of the Liaoning ("Varyag"), and, in fact, the heir to the heavy aircraft-carrying cruisers of the 1143.5 project.

Another clear difference will be the reduced “island” of the control tower and the greater displacement. Hu Wenming, the head of the ship construction program, said this in an interview with CCTV.

Both platforms look almost identical, but from the point of view of design, technologies and developments used, they differ significantly.

said Hu, who is also the president of China Shipbuilding Corporation (CSIC).

The total displacement of the aircraft carrier under construction is 70 000 tons, compared to 58 600 tons in Liaoning. In addition, the ship received a longer take-off platform - 315 meters against 304.

Type 001A will receive a Type 346 “Sea Star” digital radar system with an active phased array antenna. Among other things, Liaoning carries on board a wing of 16 helicopters; its crew is about 2000 people. Both ships operate on four-shaft steam turbines, but the maximum speed of the promising aircraft carrier is less than the progenitor: the 31 node against the 32 of the former Varyag.

China has gained extensive experience in upgrading Liaoning, and this has helped in the construction and operation of the 001A Type.

- Hong Kong military expert from Hong Kong emphasizes.

The former heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Varyag was laid down on December 6, 1985 at the shipyard of the Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant in Nikolaev under the name Riga. In 1990, changed its name. After the collapse of the USSR, the ship went to Ukraine, after which its construction was stopped. In 1998, it was sold to China. Since 2005, the Chinese state corporation CSIC has been engaged in the modernization of an aircraft carrier at a shipyard in Dalian. The ship was handed over the fleet China in 2012.

J-15 aircraft, which are the main Liaoning wing, are based on the Su-33 carrier-based fighter. The prototype of the aircraft, T-10K, was purchased in the same Ukraine in 2001, and was carefully studied by Chinese engineers. In addition, presumably, the aircraft was based on J-11 technology, which is a copy of the Su-27.

Comments

[yehat]

But what, the assessment came down to listing formal non-coincidence of sizes and components?
but I thought there would be some conclusions

[Nycomed]

[i] "According to the author of the article, the promising ship is superior to the former Soviet" Varyag ", bought by the PRC from Ukraine." [/ i]
Also me "Newton's binomial"! Discovered America. The Varyag was founded 35 years ago. When did the design start? There is something to be proud of the Chinese tovarischam!

[Mikhail Drabkin]

... There is something to be proud of the Chinese comrades: :))

Of course, China has much to be proud of from an industrial and technological point of view!
What warriors, sea wolves and flying aces they are - but this is unknown.

[Nycomed]

With the "industrial", I agree 100%, but with the "technological" ... It's not that there are more questions than answers, there is one question and a very big one: apart from the stolen and copied they have something "technologically your "?

[Bookcase]

Those times that you write about are long gone. China has now become a self-sufficient technological power. But - this is a people who do not run around with their innovations, and at the right time calmly introduce them to the world. The very first, very important, Chinese innovation - you will see soon. This will be their own OS for computers. And something tells me that the American Windows after that, will gradually go to the dustbin of history. (as programs and applications for the Chinese OP appear). China pays a lot of money to intellectual and cultural development, and this is bearing fruit.

[Nycomed]

That's when we see a fully Chinese and competitive OS on the market, then I'll take my words back.

[Bookcase]

So you just can’t get off. You will have to stand on the table and crow several times loudly !!!

[Mikhail Drabkin]

You libero write

China has now become a self-sufficient technological power.

--I completely agree.
In fact, 5G and success in all high-tech directions ... artificial intelligence, the aerospace industry, precision mechanics and optics ... And the Chinese are on the shoulders of the achievements of other civilizations, including Russian and Western, not hesitating to accept the necessary.
-The reason for this is historical respect and love for the Teacher and Knowledge, Wisdom, Old Age as the Priceless Well of Experience. Yes, the Chinese are no less nationalists than any great people. But they have always been and remain the Silent Kingdom.
My wife teaches algebra and geometry at school, the best students are Chinese (Koreans and Japanese). How much money parents spend on tutoring and gaining competitive advantages for children from an early age !!!
—- Knowledge for the Chinese is the foundation of everything.
In combination with work capacity and simply hard work, the attitude to time as a historical category, the desire for historical internal Chinese harmony .... the current foresight and wisdom of power - China did not accidentally become a direct competitor to America.
-To paraphrase the immortal words of Gogol, they are "... now rushing in the trio past other peoples and countries, staring in amazement at this swift ride ... And the peoples parting .." who are in fear, who are sorry, unable to stop or catch up.

Of course, everything comes to an end, but China is worthy of the fact of great respect and close attention.

And it is better to have China not as an enemy in and not to be in an anti-Chinese alliance with the West.

Moreover, China as a neighbor of Russia!

[New Year day]

Quote: Nycomed

besides the stolen and copied do they have something "technologically their own"?

There has always been industrial and military espionage, and everyone received the information they used — someone more, someone less.

[lucul]

Of course, China has much to be proud of from an industrial and technological point of view!

Yes, copy a whole ship - this indicates a high scientific and industrial level of the country.

[TermNachTer]

Especially so far nothing is good. Everything was bought or stolen in Nikolaev. Including the groundwork for "Ulyanovsk". All their merits are that they were able to reproduce. However, let's see what will be the wonders of the Chinese shipbuilding in practice. And the Indians' trough, built with the help of the French - so far not very much.

[V1er]

I would like to see from the experts of the Navy a detailed article about this miracle of technology. Compare it with other aircraft carriers, naturally and with the 1143.5 project.

[Vinnibuh]

Nu duc Sun himself Take out the tooth, which is cooler, but slower, and the "zhintylmen" take their word for it

[donavi49]

They squeezed out everything that is possible from Krechet in a non-nuclear version. More from this body is no longer squeezed.

The hangar is more spacious than any modernization and reconstruction of the finished one, because at the design level a number of rooms and systems were moved with all the associated facilities, so the hangar is maximized.

Used Chinese new boilers. The Chinese seem to put them in modernization on Varyag, as well as on the main 956 after the rebuild (replaced GK = with their own rockets instead of mosquitoes, put 2 vertical Shtil-1 launchers, their Goalkeepers, new radar, new HQ-10 air defense system and a lot of little things) . They are significantly more reliable + an automatic water treatment system is installed, which is not on the domestic fleet.

The old heavy and not always reliable complex on the Varyag was replaced with the 052С destroyer similar to them, and on the new one a modern complex of 4 canvases identical to 052D was already installed.

In terms of self-defense, the domestic Navy boasts. For the Chinese have cut American philosophy and prefer to build a powerful escort strike force than to equip an aircraft carrier with everyone, for all occasions. The only weapon of the right aircraft carrier = a strong air group. Everything else is symbolism. Similarly, UDC. Therefore, the defense of their aircraft carrier is provided by 11 receiver systems (their Goalkeeper version) and air defense missile systems MD HQ-10 on 24 missiles (a la RIM-116) each installation (they are there like 6 or 8 is deployed on the ship), plus active jamming settings / RBU (they have them unified, that is, a depth bomb and a projectile with interference can be shoved into one pipe).

[V1er]

Thanks you)

[lucul]

The only weapon of the right aircraft carrier = a strong air group.

C'mon - a good storm, and the submarine has every chance to put avik to the bottom ...

[donavi49]

Well, hypothetically, everything is possible.

By the way, Kuzyu too - for that matter.

However, the general philosophy of the Navy is to push maximum armament into the ship for all occasions, to the detriment of the basic qualities of this type of ship. This is justified, especially in conditions of a lack of ship personnel.

The US Philosophy is maximizing performance as intended. That is, UDC is a landing ship with a strong landing and air component, and not a jack of all trades. ESSM will allow you to fight off a random flight or to be on the side. But all the work on the escort. And AB is similar. Well, etc.

The Chinese, choosing between Russian and Western philosophy, leaned in favor of Western.

[lucul]

The US Philosophy is maximizing performance as intended. That is, UDC is a landing ship with a strong landing and air component, and not a jack of all trades. ESSM will allow you to fight off a random flight or to be on the side. But all the work on the escort. And AB is similar. Well, etc.

The Chinese, choosing between Russian and Western philosophy, leaned in favor of Western.

Amer was just very lucky at Midway.
And so ....
Avik serves to conquer / subjugate new lands. And in Russia, these lands are near by the heap - you can trample on foot ....

[A5V]

Nope, this is a myth :) An aircraft carrier is, above all, a moving airfield, which can fulfill a huge range of tasks.

[hydrox]

Of course, many tasks can be STARTED to be carried out if they do not detect him in the place where it is believed that he should not be there.
And if they spotted it, then in a state of war he had to live, nothing, and there were a lot of striking means for this.

[A5V]

Quote: hydrox

Of course, many tasks can be STARTED to be carried out if they do not detect him in the place where it is believed that he should not be there.

And how many countries can detect AOG anywhere in the world (or at least a few hundred kilometers from the coast) and track it in real time?

Quote: hydrox

And if they spotted it, then in a state of war he had to live, nothing, and there were a lot of striking means for this.

List at least a few?))

[hydrox]

Quote: A5V

And how many countries can detect AOG anywhere in the world (or at least a few hundred kilometers from the coast) and track it in real time?

Somehow, before the bulldoze, how many countries are capable of determining the position of the ACG on the ball, I am only interested in the possibilities of Russia suitable for this.

Quote: A5V

List at least a few?))

All hyper, including those based on strategic media :: Details on Wikis and manuals, I don’t serve liber-idlers.

[A5V]

Quote: hydrox

Quote: A5V

And how many countries can detect AOG anywhere in the world (or at least a few hundred kilometers from the coast) and track it in real time?

Somehow, before the bulldoze, how many countries are capable of determining the position of the ACG on the ball, I am only interested in the possibilities of Russia suitable for this.

Russia's capabilities in this matter are very modest, to say the least. As, however, and any other country except the United States and China, when the latter will have catapult aircraft carriers.

Quote: hydrox

All hyper, including those based on strategic media :: Details on Wikis and manuals, I don’t serve liber-idlers.

Of the "all hyper" ships can only be attacked by the "Zircon" anti-ship missile system, which has not yet been put into service. At the same time, hypersound does not solve the problems of a small number of carriers and a lack of means of detection and identification.

[hydrox]

Hypersound does not solve the problem, it destroys them and Russia has a dagger for this.
Yes, the radius is still small, but a year of military operation is also something (the number of years of service smoothly turns into quality (in the presence of an active design bureau and industrial capacities)).

[A5V]

The characteristics of this complex are too little known to draw conclusions about its effectiveness against surface ships. There is a very good reason that it cannot hit moving targets at all.

[Nycomed]

"Whoever is lucky, the cock will blow it away." A confluence of certain circumstances took place, indeed. But there can be no question of any "luck".

[Alexey RA]

Quote: lucul

Amer was just very lucky at Midway.

For the seventh time. Because the six previous raids ended in bad luck. And chances were ... the same downed army "Widowmaker" could well ram the bridge of "Akagi". Or the group from "Hornet" could reach the goal entirely - and not fall apart in two. I'm not even talking about the coordinated strike of dive bombers and torpedo bombers, which was practiced before the war and used in the Coral Sea.

Quote: lucul

Avik serves to conquer / subjugate new lands. And in Russia, these lands are near by the heap - you can trample on foot ....

Avik serves to support its ships in those places where the detection range of enemy aircraft is less than the range to the nearest airfield. Specifically, in our country, this is the right (northern) flank of the "bastion" of the Northern Fleet (the ASW line covering the SSBN positions): there is about 600 km to the nearest base. And the naval grouping in this area, when detecting enemy aircraft, even 300 km from the line, can only pray - reinforcements from the coastal airfield will not have time, and the duty unit will be demolished immediately. Actually, this is precisely why the Navy demanded the AV - to cover the defensive forces, well, and to ensure the breakthrough of its SSNS / SSGNs into the Atlantic.

[iouris]

And so would Ukraine have a carrier fleet.

[Nycomed]

Would rot now in Nikolaev as that cruiser ...

[Undecim]

Not only does the text practically carry no information, there is also some kind of horse-Turkish language of presentation:
Another clear difference will be a smaller “island” of the control tower and a larger program manager Hu Wenming's ship construction, in an interview with CCTV.
Who has more?
Among other things, Liaoning carries on board, its crew is about 2000 people.
What, among other things, carries?
The author - haste leads to fallibility.

[Vladimir16]

Quote: Undecim

so there is still some kind of horse-Turkish language of presentation:

“Doctor, everything hurts.” Wherever I touch, it hurts everywhere.
- Yes, you, my dear man, your finger is broken.

Maybe you have something with a screen? Perhaps you do not see part of the text?

[eagle owl]

Amazing right? Maybe this is because under the agreement on the Straits, the USSR in Nikolaev could not build Aircraft carriers, or rather, could build, but then they would hang out exclusively in the Black Sea
The Chinese have learned from their friends to carry frank garbage with a smart look ...
The bottom line is that the Varangian is a cruiser, and the Chinese have an aircraft carrier without anti-ship missiles, because there is more space, because there is more air wing

[Thrifty]

Few of the Chinese have an air wing, with a displacement of 70000 tons, he must carry 65-70LA!

[donavi49]

Because STOBAR. Because the case remained essentially the same, although the hangar level was cleared at the fundamental level, transferring a number of systems and rooms to others, which allowed to maximize the hangar in principle.

On 60 LA - they are already under construction, with KATOBAR, Chinese KittyHawk.

And also 9 + destroyers (at 64 and 112 universal mines) can only be completed afloat in Shanghai.

And 2 UDC on 6 seats and 14-18 helicopters.

[lucul]

Few of the Chinese have an air wing, with a displacement of 70000 tons, he must carry 65-70LA!

This is because the Su-33 is too large for an aircraft carrier, it is not for nothing that our MiG-29 on Kuznetsovo use))

[ABM]

heavy fighters are used

[cormorant]

Only a bird in their hands is better than a crane in the sky. They do not worry much, the next aircraft carrier will carry more. We have not even decided yet whether we need such ships.

[Elysium]

But before the Chinese called "Varyag" defective, but now they compare it with it.

[Zaurbek]

Is there a catapult?

[Nycomed]

"Is there a catapult?"
What are you talking about?

[Zaurbek]

Well, fly the planes ...

[Nycomed]

So is it springboard, sort of? Catapult is a very complicated thing, the Americans are unlikely to share technology with China. Stealing is also unlikely. So the catapults on it are most likely not.

[Zaurbek]

So the technology of this year 50 .... and without it, either with an empty tank take off, or without weapons ....

[Nycomed]

That's right. But the technology for catapults is only with the States and England, and developing your own ... It is very long and very expensive. So, just choose: either the flight range or the payload.

[lucul]

So the technology of this year 50 .... and without it, either with an empty tank take off, or without weapons ....

That catapult, SUCH loads, gives the glider that the deck aircraft does not live long.

[hydrox]

Fair observation: a modern deck aircraft has such a thrust-weight ratio that it does not need a catapult at take-off at full load, but this engine should also give a very powerful braking impulse.
Accordingly, only those who do not know how to build modern engines or who operate at temperatures significantly higher than 0 want the catapult now.
I would like to look at the catapult avik somewhere in the Barents or Bering Sea at a temperature of commercials -20, and even when performing the tasks with an air wing ...

[Zaurbek]

This is a fallacy ... but for our latitudes, we need an em catapult.

[hydrox]

The flag is in your hands, but I am against the inept spending of funds at a time when Russia cannot show its flag even on a modern cruiser.

[Zaurbek]

And we are not discussing this.

[hydrox]

So after all, we do not expose EM-ejection "Wishlist" either ...

[Zaurbek]

What to expose them? We would not have enough exhibits for the entire aircraft carrier at each stage.

[hydrox]

Some liber-down otminusovat me on the entire carrier topic without comment - and where are the moderators looking?

[A5V]

No, he is with a springboard. The next Chinese aircraft carriers will be ejected.

[Zaurbek]

It does not interfere

[Monar]

11 meters longer and 12 more fighters with all their belongings shoved? Most likely, the air defense, which is not frail internal volumes on the "Kuza", cut.

[UVB]

304 m is the longest length of the ship, not of the "launch pad", although in different sources it varies 305-306 m. The length of the launch position on Kuznetsov is 195 m (long) and 2 x 105 m (short)

[ABM]

"The total displacement of the aircraft carrier under construction is 70 tons, compared with 000 tons in the Liaoning" - compared the full displacement with the standard. The total displacement of the Varyag is also under 58 tons. They removed the rocket launchers and increased the air group ... The island was slightly reduced due to more compact equipment. Small alterations ...

[ABM]

Quote: Monar

11 meters longer and 12 more fighters with all their belongings shoved? Most likely, the air defense, which is not frail internal volumes on the "Kuza", cut.

rockets removed yet

[kig]

operate on four-shaft steam turbines - !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ???????????????

[yehat]

Quote: lucul

Amer was just very lucky at Midway.

if the Japanese admiral did not scare, but lead the battleships into battle, then he would simply catch the entire aircraft carrier group of Americans and shoot them. Then the result of Midway would be somewhat different.
Along the way, one constant misfortune of the Japanese affected - they did not hear most of the data transmitted by air intelligence. Why they so messed up the whole war time after time - no one knows.
But with enviable constancy, the Japanese admirals acted half-blind because of the inability to catch the data found and transmitted.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: yehat

if the Japanese admiral did not scare, but lead the battleships into battle, then he would simply catch the entire aircraft carrier group of Americans and shoot them.

The Japanese admiral used all that he had left after the first raid - the Hiryu air group. The planes would still reach the enemy faster.
And throwing artillery ships under torpedoes and bombs of American AVs meant simply losing them - American AVs had a higher speed than Haru-Haru , and would just start working with shock groups "on the way".
The chances were in a night battle - but Nimitz stopped this opportunity, which ordered Spruens to retreat east.

Quote: yehat

Along the way, one constant misfortune of the Japanese affected - they did not hear most of the data transmitted by air intelligence. Why they so messed up the whole war time after time - no one knows.

At Tsushima, the radio communication issue under Midway was somehow sorted out. In short, Nagumo chose the ship with the worst performance characteristics of radio equipment as the flagship.
However, the Yankees also had a mess - for example, Gray's fighters flew out with walkie-talkies tuned to the air defense frequencies of the connection, and therefore they simply did not hear the cover. Moreover, these are still flowers - communication problems almost disrupted the main show - an attack by McCluskey's dive-bombers:

... in accordance with the USN Dive Doctrine doctrine, the leading squadron (in this case VS-6) was supposed to strike at a more distant target (Akagi, on the right), and the guided (VB-6) at the nearest (“ Kaga ”, running at the 24 speed of the node to the left of the head section of McCluskey). This is exactly how Richard Best presented the case, who transmitted McCluskey to 10.12: "I attack according to the doctrine." She ordered to attack "Kaga". It is very likely that at the moment the receivers of the CEAG were tuned only to the command frequency VS-6, and McCluskey did not hear this report. But it was precisely at this time that he himself ordered Best to attack the more distant aircraft carrier, Akagi (of course, Best did not hear him either), and the commander of VS-6, Earl Gallagher, was the closest, Kaga, which was contrary to doctrine. But Gallagher accepted this order, and did not argue with him. As a result, in 10.17 all 31 SBDs of the Enterprise were ready to attack only one aircraft carrier - Kaga.

Best and the command link VB-6 managed to interrupt the attack on the "Kaga" and re-aimed at the "Akagi". And all the other VB-6 vehicles went to the Kaga.
Three dive against the aircraft carrier. Just one hit - Best drove an 1000 pound into the trailing edge of a central airliner, with a gap in the upper hangar. His followers overshot, although the close tear of the bomb dropped by Weber severely damaged the left hand drive of the AB.

[yehat]

Quote: Nycomed

It is very long and very expensive. So, just choose: either the flight range or the payload.

China copied the Crimean test site "thread" for the development of aircraft carrier technologies.
Including copied and testing ground for our catapult in a very high degree of technical readiness, so you can assume that China has a raw, but already fully tested on the ground catapult.

[yehat]

Quote: Uhu

Amazing right? Maybe this is because under the agreement on the Straits, the USSR in Nikolaev could not build Aircraft carriers, or rather, could build, but then they would hang out exclusively in the Black Sea

Moreover, curiously, as part of a misinformation mission, when our first "cruiser" passed from the Bosporus to the Atlantic, NATO counted more than a hundred Yak-38s based on the cruiser, although there were about 30 of them.
And here's the funny thing: the NEAVIAN CARRIER, carrying more males than the largest American aircraft carrier, was allowed through the strait.

[orcinus]

I don’t understand, someone from VO speaks Chinese, sits on their forums, and then throws off here, as in the trash, everything? where is the analytics here? What is the message of the article? Already what kind of reprint with print screens from Chinese forums! Level, level, gentlemen, do not drop!

[Rus_Balt]

Why do China need aircraft carriers? China, like Russia, is a continental country! If Russia has no tasks for the ACG, then what kind of tasks did China come up with for its ACG? Maybe China is making a mistake and it should build tanks and boats for the mosquito fleet, as the Russian Federation does?

[Bookcase]

China wants to kick America and take its place. To do this, you must have appropriate effective tools for those who doubt it. :-) There is no doubt that China will become a leader. It’s a little worrying for me personally, but facts are facts!

[Semurg]

Taiwan and a pair of disputed islands and archipelagos.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Rus_Balt

Why do China need aircraft carriers? China, like Russia, is a continental country! If Russia has no tasks for the ACG, then what kind of tasks did China come up with for its ACG?

China has zone of national interests - all of Southeast Asia right up to Australia. And a cloud of disputed islands far from the continent.
Plus, China is now actively exploring Africa. And finally, China has India, which also sits exactly above the main oil artery of China.

[Prokhorov]

The idiotic design, as it was, remains.
The Chinese (very reasonably) removed the rocket launchers from it, and apparently expanded the hangar.
For the purpose of reconquering the Spratly Islands, this box is enough.
He will not be able to say "fairy" to the Americans in any case

[DmitrijT]

Quote: Librero

And something tells me that the American Windows after that, will gradually go to the dustbin of history.

Do not hope that while under Windows they make games it is unsinkable.