Military Review

Return to the USSR. Is there no turning back?

769

Ah, how I want to return ...


Previously, as we all know well, the water was wetter, the grass greener, and the sky higher. What can we say about power - it is clear that at the time of our youth it was white, fluffy and smelled exclusively of roses. Although, of course, I turned up with roses: we have only one person chained to a paddle in a galley, and then everyone was chained to him, rowing with all his might so that our socialist galley could overtake the damned capitalist ship. And that power smelled, of course, with rude masculine sweat, not roses.




Doubt it? But a very significant number of modern Russians do not doubt it at all. According to the results of a survey conducted by the Levada Center, Russians relate to the Soviet regime during the 70-s – 80-s years better than to the modern Russian one. Our fellow citizens associate modern Russian power with crime and corruption; it seems to people distant, alien and bureaucratic.

But the Soviet power of the Brezhnev period, on the contrary, was remembered by us as being close to the people (as many as 29% of respondents think so), strong (29%) and fair (22%). Which, you see, causes some bewilderment among those who remember that era at least a little. But you can be perplexed as much as you like, and the fact that the number of Russians nostalgic for the USSR is really very large cannot be refuted.

Just in case, let's clarify: alas, dear Russians are absolutely right about the modern Russian authorities. She is really associated with both crime and bureaucracy. She, as never before, was estranged from the people, fenced off from it by fences, personal protection, secretaries and assistants. So, such sensations did not arise in people from scratch, and blaming some external forces and enemy propaganda for this is useless: deserved and attitude.

But it’s still strange that people, many of whom still remember the late USSR, are trying to somehow idealize that state system and that power. Did she really deserve it?

On a booze fell from a bridge ... straight to the Kremlin


To those who sincerely believe in the good members of the Central Committee of the CPSU, in their closeness to the people, I recall how Boris Yeltsin came to power. Do you think he proposed some kind of economic program, ideas for reforming the country, excellent legislative initiatives? Not! He simply declared himself a fighter against party privileges! Maybe someone else remembers that famous PR move when Yeltsin stood in line at the clinic? Yes, it was only once, but the whole Soviet people literally choked with emotion: well, well, what a fine fellow!

Yes, at that time people very well understood how far this power was from the people and their aspirations. That the party, that the Soviet elite (I immediately apologize to those who do not know the difference) were surrounded by the same fences as the current elite. Yes, they didn’t have millions, but there were separate polyclinics (and even a separate department of the Ministry of Health), there were special food rations, which included products unfamiliar to most Soviet citizens (like smoked eel, real Finnish salami and the like). True, they did not rest in the Maldives and the Seychelles. But Crimea and the Black Sea coast of the Caucasus were accessible to them, as they say, at the click of a finger, while an ordinary Soviet employee should have been very lucky to become the owner of a treasured ticket to a departmental or trade union sanatorium in Crimea.

So, then it was so boring for the ordinary Soviet citizen that it was enough for Yeltsin to stand in line once and get drunk on the Volga from the bridge so that the popular rumor instantly proclaimed him “one of us”. I repeat once again: he did not remember anything else, absolutely. Stupidly hit in one point: privileges, privileges, damned communists, return our privileges ...

By the way, one contemporary figure reminds me of the unforgettable Boris Nikolaevich. It also stupidly strikes at one point: corruption, corruption, corruption! The effect, however, is a little thinner, but this comrade is slowly gaining an electoral base, right? By the way (this is no longer directly related to the topic), did you notice how much Navalny even looks like Yeltsin? He, poor, even grew a beard so that the resemblance is not so striking in the eye. But where is it: both appearance and methods are so similar that inevitably you begin to believe in the transmigration of souls ...

That is, the thesis about a certain proximity of the Soviet regime to the people, let us leave on the conscience those who “remember” it only from the stories of Kostya Semin and dad with his mother, nostalgic for the times of their youth. But perhaps the other memories of our contemporaries are true?

What about the fact that the Soviet government was very "strong"? Seriously?! Is it power that fell apart from the actions of one person? Durable?



The old woman did not suffer for long


I will give an example of lasting power. The United States and its political system are examples of lasting power. And it is noticeable right now, when Donald Trump became president. It was worth this system to identify him as a stranger, and potentially dangerous, as she instantly tied him hand and foot, not giving a step to step in a direction other than the main one. That is, there are no steps towards Russia, no recognition of the Crimea, no global deals and new zones of influence: as Washington pressed Moscow to destroy Russia (political, of course), it continues to push, and Trump obediently integrated into the American political mainstream - not a step to the right, not a step to the left ...

And how was everything with Gorbachev, remember? The “strong” Soviet power folded its arms over its chest and calmly gave up the spirit, having made a couple of convulsions just before its death. And do not talk about betrayal: it may have been, but the fact of the matter is that the system had no margin of safety at all, and the actions of a couple of traitors and one not very competent (this is still very mildly said) leader was enough for its total destruction.

As for the justice of the Soviet regime, it is difficult to say anything definite. The most humane Soviet court and law enforcement system fostered the very criminals who later arranged a terrible bloody sabbath in Russia. But for a stolen bag of potatoes they planted!

Was it fair that a color TV, and soles not suitable for foreign counterparts, cost three monthly salaries of a simple Soviet citizen? But what about the car, the quality of which was included in the legends (and in jokes), the whole family had to put aside almost a decade? Although it was not enough to accumulate the required amount - then for this machine it was also necessary to stand in line. Sometimes it’s also five or six years old.

It was true all my life to dream of a trip abroad, because I really want to see the world, but never go abroad and never go? Alas, the Soviet government did not trust their citizens and believed that it was better for them to stay at home. There were, of course, exceptions, with a great desire to break out into any Bulgaria, but was it possible for romantic Soviet children who were reading out by Jules Verne?

True, there was still some justice in this matter: with trips abroad it was difficult for everyone, even for party and Soviet workers. The latter had easier with the latter, it’s true, but what did they not see in that Bulgaria, which they called the sixteenth republic of the USSR?

And it was absolutely true that passports to peasants in the USSR were issued only in the 1974 year. Prior to this, alas, their situation, if it differed from the position of serfs, was not very strong ...

Yes, for some, justice looks like this: poorly, modestly, with an eye on the fattening bosses. But it seems to be no worse than that of the neighbors, but how do these bosses live there, who knows, right?

To spite mom freeze our heads!


Probably, it makes no sense to try in one article to refute all the myths that have developed with us about the USSR. But it is still necessary to remind of how it really was. About "closeness to the people", about "justice", about the "friendship of peoples" and the like ...

But nevertheless, it is necessary to remind the current authorities that for the most part, such sentiments are only a completely logical reaction of the most infantile part of our population to her, this very power, mistakes and shortcomings. You see, dear rowers, our comrades, no matter how ridiculous the children’s sound is: “I’ll go outside and spite my mother’s frostbitten ears”, he’ll go and freeze! To spite you will go and frostbite!

Only now there are many millions of such “children”: we remember only the good, hate everything that is happening around here and now, and are ready at least somewhere, even to hell with horns, if only to stay away from the shame that surrounds you and what You doing.

And we already have boys with magic pipes, ready to lead this mass of people. They work on the leading television channels of our country, go on air in unchanging red shirts, speak beautifully and smoothly, as they taught at an American university - in general, they can captivate someone.

And then we will go back to the past. But since almost no one already remembers how it was actually managed and done there, we get, as usual, a parody. Or a tragedy.

And you continue to notice only Navalny ...
Author:
769 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Flamberg
    Flamberg 14 August 2019 05: 22
    -70
    It was just that when the scoop was swept away, there was nothing like rain, "echo of matzo" and other "involuntary" ones, and people lived in an information vacuum. There was no one to tell about the shoals of those in power.
    1. Freeman
      Freeman 14 August 2019 05: 40
      +53
      Quote: Flamberg
      It was just that when the scoop was swept away, there was nothing like rain, "echo of matzo" and other "involuntary" ones, and people lived in an information vacuum. There was no one to tell about the shoals of those in power.


      Yeah. There was no type.
      About "voices of the enemy", such as "Voice of America", "BBC", "Deutsche Welle", "Freedom", in the course?

      There is a dentist-homeworker Rudik -
      His receiver is a grundig,
      He twists it at nights -
      Catching, contra, FRG.
      / V. Vysotsky /
      1. Flamberg
        Flamberg 14 August 2019 05: 42
        -42
        Do not confuse warm with soft.
        1. cradle
          cradle 14 August 2019 06: 58
          +39
          Is that you in soft? It’s just that people worked, and didn’t talk about warm and soft, not your favorite, your beloved.
          1. Flamberg
            Flamberg 14 August 2019 07: 03
            -45
            Now what doesn’t work? And now they work and live no worse than with the scoop.
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 14 August 2019 09: 06
              +31
              Quote: Flamberg
              And now they work and live no worse than with a scoop

              That's just not worse! And life goes on, and makes demands, and energy in the specific gravity is becoming more expensive. And if we used to fill our streets with our cars, now we are filling it with imported cars, without producing anything of our own. This will subsequently lead to a severe crisis. Let me remind you that the Greek crisis means judgment.
              1. Flamberg
                Flamberg 14 August 2019 09: 36
                -49
                That's just not worse!
                Well then, complaining about life? Just when the scoop, no one knew that in fact they live like rogues.
                And life goes on, and makes demands, and energy in the specific gravity is becoming more expensive.
                So everything rises in price not only energy carriers.
                And if we used to fill our streets with our cars, now we are filling it with imported cars, without producing anything of our own.
                With the scoop there was no choice. After the scoop, it turned out that domestic cars are buckets with nuts.
                not producing anything of their own household.
                So again it turned out that it wasn’t much that the scoop produced from the household turned out to be filthy quality to no one.
                This will subsequently lead to a severe crisis. Let me remind you that the Greek crisis means judgment.
                Yeah ... Scientific communism, scientifically argued that the west will soon decay, but it turned out somehow the other way around.
                ps The USA has been decaying since 1776, already 243 years, but there’s nothing at all ... the USSR existed for only 69 years and fell apart due to rotting from the inside, which the majority does not want to recognize and with persistence worthy of better use, is looking for extreme ...
                1. lopvlad
                  lopvlad 14 August 2019 11: 00
                  +70
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  no one knew that in fact they live like rogues.


                  but now in modern Russia the majority of the people not only know that they are rogue but also feel that way, and their number is growing every year.
                  Before talking about the "bad" USSR and "good" modern Russia, you need to look at the fact that under the "bad" USSR, the population of the country grew by 500-700 thousand per year, and under the "good" modern Russia, we are only dying out for 27 years in a row. it is unnecessary to talk about the fact that in all "civilized" countries with Western values, the population is falling.
                  For example, the US population from 1990 to 2010 increased from 248 million 709 thousand people to 308 million 745 thousand people.
                  People choosing the USSR choose life and not death, which modern Russia promises him. Life in the USSR can be compared to being in kindergarten and life in Russia from the 90s to being in a prison cell, where each person for himself and the state is associated with prison guards constantly your good and gear for the purpose of profit.
                  1. Tatyana
                    Tatyana 14 August 2019 15: 30
                    +11
                    I didn’t expect such ala-liberal views from the author Viktor Kuzovkov! And where did he get such superficial beliefs about the history of Russia and the true causes of the destruction of the USSR ?! Not quite clear.

                    Let the author first study in detail the history of Soviet Russia and the liberal "perestroika" of Gorbachev with his so-called. "new thinking" and the subsequent collapse of the USSR! Explore the post-Soviet period of Yeltsin's rule! And only then does he compare current capitalism with the Soviet period.
                    Let the author for objective historical comparison with the Soviet period He will study everything that was good in our country under socialism from professional historians, and not just from journalists!

                    Well, the author of the video with the "propaganda" of leftist journalists does not like it! He considers them politically inadequately "zombified".
                    Well then, for example, an analytic review video from professional historians who explain a lot of things objectively to help him!

                    Intelligence: Boris Yulin about perestroika Posted on: 12 Jan Xnumx
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 14 August 2019 19: 22
                      +4
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      I didn’t expect such ala-liberal views from the author Viktor Kuzovkov!

                      It's not about liberalism. Personally, I don’t remember how many times I explained that people remain people regardless of ideology. In the USSR there was both good and bad, just as now - this is reality. But the USSR was not the Promised Land — this is also a reality.
                      The meaning of the article is that the exorbitant idealization of the USSR is not the best idea.
                      1. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 14 August 2019 22: 57
                        +8
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The meaning of the article is that the exorbitant idealization of the USSR is not the best idea.

                        The USSR in different years is a different country. Especially it is impossible to compare the Stalin period with others.
                      2. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 15 August 2019 19: 22
                        +2
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Especially it is impossible to compare the Stalin period with others.

                        Then there were problems, as well as their achievements.
                      3. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 15 August 2019 20: 14
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Then there were problems, as well as their achievements

                        the problems were the same smile - the main one is technological backwardness. Stalin solved this problem by building his own industries and using the labor of foreign engineers and scientists to train his own. Now they are buying finished products or opening almost closed foreign production without using domestic scientific and technical potential. They are not inviting scientists, but managers.
                        Then there was a clear goal, and the corresponding tasks were set. Now there are tasks but no goals. The main task is populism or do you think differently ???
                      4. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 15 August 2019 21: 01
                        +1
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Stalin solved this problem by building his own industries and using the labor of foreign engineers and scientists to train his own.

                        You probably don’t know, but now they don’t sell anything to us so easily, and work is being done in this area, for example, recently there was an article on modernizing the energy system.
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Now there are tasks but no goals.

                        And this Goal really helped?
                      5. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 15 August 2019 22: 27
                        +5
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        You probably don’t know, but now it’s so easy for us to sell nothing,

                        smile You probably do not know that then, too, technologies were not sold, ask at your leisure what the "golden blockade" is
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Recently there was an article on the modernization of the energy system.
                        I will be grateful for the reference

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And this Goal really helped?

                        Strong! In fact, all of today's achievements - Nuclear weapons and space, yesterday - WWII and transistors, and I’ll even tell you a secret GMO, these are all Soviet, mostly Stalin’s achievements. GMO stolen technology. Today's Russia is residents dressed in Chinese clothes, making repairs from Italian plumbing, loving foreign cars of any other countries, talking on Korean phones. Nothing technologically advanced domestic in Russia is produced. As soon as energy production decreases immediately, this blown well-being will cease.
                      6. tarragon
                        tarragon 16 August 2019 04: 50
                        +3
                        "Today's Russia is residents dressed in Chinese clothes, making repairs from Italian plumbing, loving foreign cars from any other countries, talking on Korean phones."

                        I love the USSR. How not to love him because my childhood passed there. But let's remember how it happened. The fact is that civilian industry developed in specific conditions, with virtually no foreign competitors (all this was artificially natural). Not many fellow citizens have been able to taste the benefits of Western civilization. Visitors went to look at an imported tape recorder, TV. They were proud of the Japanese head in their tape recorder. When the restrictions on the import of imported consumer goods in the 90s were lifted by WE ALL, each of us, together, with our ruble killed our civilian industry. Think of all those 90s home appliance stores and shuttle traders. Each of us, even without loans, preferred an imported kettle, a washing machine, a TV set to ours and hammered a nail into the economy. Lending has completed the process. But the defense industry survived, because initially it competed with world leaders and now we are the second largest in the world in the sale of weapons, which brings us a pretty penny to the budget. So the prerequisites for the collapse of civilian industry were laid back in the USSR. And now "someone" has ruined the industry.
                      7. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 16 August 2019 05: 56
                        +1
                        Quote: Tarhun
                        golden blockade
                        This is when they sold for gold? But they were selling it.
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        I will be grateful for the reference

                        https://topwar.ru/160403-rossija-sozdala-pervuju-sobstvennuju-gazovuju-turbinu-bolshoj-moschnosti-gtd-110.html
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        these are all Soviet, mostly Stalinist, achievements

                        Well, that’s exactly what I meant. Stalinist, the point is in it, and not in the idea. But Stalin was a man, and people are mortal. He died and that’s it.
                      8. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 16 August 2019 11: 59
                        +2
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        it’s the matter, not the idea. But Stalin was a man, and people are mortal.

                        The point is still in the Idea. The USSR was a state in which people who came to power relied not on the old experience, not on the rich or industrialists, but on theory.
                        At that time, Marx's theory of value was relevant. But after the death of the leader, it was turned into a religion with all the paraphernalia. Marx is still relevant now, only his most ingenious definition is that the cost is the labor embodied in the commodity today must be changed to "The value is embodied in the commodity energy“And everything will fall into place, the ruble will be tied to a kilowatt, Russia will set a new standard for the world and be ahead of the rest of the world. The trouble is that today there are no strong theorists in power, but there are analysts. Thank you if you read
                      9. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 16 August 2019 17: 04
                        +1
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        The point is still in the Idea. The USSR was a state in which people who came to power relied not on the old experience, not on the rich or industrialists, but on theory.

                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        these are all Soviet, mostly Stalinist, achievements

                        The idea is implemented by specific people, and the collapse of the USSR began immediately after the death of Stalin, although it was pushed back by Brezhnev.
                      10. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 16 August 2019 20: 01
                        0
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        This is when they sold for gold? But they were selling

                        the golden blockade is when they did not accept gold from the young Soviet republic for payment. They took grain. What caused the famine in the Volga region, Ukraine .. in 1932-33.
                      11. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 16 August 2019 20: 16
                        0
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        golden blockade is when they did not accept gold

                        I missed the "not". We know about hunger, but this does not change the fact that they were selling.
                      12. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 16 August 2019 14: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Tarhun
                        WE ALL, each of us, together, with our ruble killed our civilian industry.

                        ++ I do not argue with you, I agree, but I propose to consider the following thesis - we killed it with the "strong" ruble exchange rate. Let me explain: the artificial dollar exchange rate set by the Central Bank at the MICEX trades is beneficial to bankers and commodity speculators. In our country, there is absolutely nothing to produce by ourselves, but it is more profitable to buy it abroad, from pork to cars and phones. People simply do not have a choice - imports will always be cheaper with the same quality at such a currency rate.
                    2. free
                      free 14 August 2019 21: 34
                      +10
                      I did not expect such ala-liberal views from the author Viktor Kuzovkov
                      With all due respect, Tatyana, why didn’t you read V. Kuzovkov’s article? He has it in almost every article.
                      Let the author, for an objective historical comparison with the Soviet period, study everything that was good in our country under socialism from professional historians, and not just from journalists!
                      And why does the author need this. He is not a stupid person, he just has such a job. To drown for the modern RF simultaneously defending the bourgeois and sweeping criticism of socialism.
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 20 August 2019 12: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: free
                        And why does the author need this. He is not a stupid person, he just has such a job. To drown for the modern RF simultaneously defending the bourgeois and sweeping criticism of socialism.
                        -
                        Absolutely ??? in 1987, in order to buy Chinese dermantine sneakers, my mother had to hand over 100 kg of butter - otherwise they didn’t give a coupon for purchase. There were no cows - so my mother bought butter from friends ... collected 100 kg, handed over, received a coupon. ..We waited for 6 months — summer already ended long ago, it was already snowing, finally it came ... not my size - 44 instead of 45 ... they took where to go - the next one would have to wait the same, but the year would end and it would have to collect oil again

                        It’s when it’s by pull, and by the big pull !!! in a dentistry a hole was drilled NEW (!!!!) borer. NOT he went from one to another, though he was disinfected, they weren’t quite animals. Well, stupid, well now ...

                        The second secretary of the district committee crushed two children when they were drunk - 3 and 5 years old, his mother went crazy, and he was punished ... transferred to another district by an instructor ....

                        They built the "Dead Road" - the country really needed it, extremely ... Stalin died - literally the next day, they decided - that the road is absolutely unnecessary, in general. Who is one of those who slammed there senseless forces and means-sat down? .....

                        They bought machines for currency, when they brought them, it turned out that they couldn’t be installed (the infrastructure, buildings, process didn’t fit). Those who bought did it because it was impossible to import those machines even inside the buildings? Yes, it’s okay !!! ....

                        Indiscriminately? Bought equipment for turning rivers - a separate song. But I was about little things - the project was buried, the equipment was handed over to the local PMK. So my father groaned - the performance is mad at bulldozers and draglines, the plan was lifted several times ... ... but the currencies for the purchase were planned - "only next year in the 4th quarter" ..... And it was as if the equipment was working

                        Indiscriminately? Forgot about the Soviet poor - which 60 I received rubles - nannies, nurses, cleaners, postmen, librarians, watchmen, and so on. For any recounting options, these are the current 10 000, no more
                      2. free
                        free 20 August 2019 13: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: free
                        And why does the author need this. He is not a stupid person, he just has such a job. To drown for the modern RF simultaneously defending the bourgeois and sweeping criticism of socialism.
                        -
                        Absolutely ??? in 1987, in order to buy Chinese dermantine sneakers, my mother had to hand over 100 kg of butter - otherwise they didn’t give a coupon for purchase. There were no cows - so my mother bought butter from friends ... collected 100 kg, handed over, received a coupon. ..We waited for 6 months — summer already ended long ago, it was already snowing, finally it came ... not my size - 44 instead of 45 ... they took where to go - the next one would have to wait the same, but the year would end and it would have to collect oil again

                        It’s when it’s by pull, and by the big pull !!! in a dentistry a hole was drilled NEW (!!!!) borer. NOT he went from one to another, though he was disinfected, they weren’t quite animals. Well, stupid, well now ...

                        The second secretary of the district committee crushed two children when they were drunk - 3 and 5 years old, his mother went crazy, and he was punished ... transferred to another district by an instructor ....

                        They built the "Dead Road" - the country really needed it, extremely ... Stalin died - literally the next day, they decided - that the road is absolutely unnecessary, in general. Who is one of those who slammed there senseless forces and means-sat down? .....

                        They bought machines for currency, when they brought them, it turned out that they couldn’t be installed (the infrastructure, buildings, process didn’t fit). Those who bought did it because it was impossible to import those machines even inside the buildings? Yes, it’s okay !!! ....

                        Indiscriminately? Bought equipment for turning rivers - a separate song. But I was about little things - the project was buried, the equipment was handed over to the local PMK. So my father groaned - the performance is mad at bulldozers and draglines, the plan was lifted several times ... ... but the currencies for the purchase were planned - "only next year in the 4th quarter" ..... And it was as if the equipment was working

                        Indiscriminately? Forgot about the Soviet poor - which 60 I received rubles - nannies, nurses, cleaners, postmen, librarians, watchmen, and so on. For any recounting options, these are the current 10 000, no more


                        Fine, now justify that what you are describing is socialism.
                        Indiscriminately, by the way, it means that you criticize without understanding the object of criticism.
                      3. your1970
                        your1970 20 August 2019 13: 24
                        0
                        Quote: free
                        Indiscriminately, by the way, it means that you criticize without understanding the object of criticism.
                        -
                        I know...
                        You accused the author that he
                        Quote: free
                        criticizing socialism indiscriminately.


                        Quote: free
                        Fine, now justify that what you are describing is socialism.
                        "Why? Why should I justify you - according to Soviet propaganda, what was socialism?"
                        Or do you think socialism was separate - and the new burs in dentistry separately?
                      4. free
                        free 20 August 2019 15: 01
                        -1
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: free
                        Indiscriminately, by the way, it means that you criticize without understanding the object of criticism.
                        -
                        I know...
                        You accused the author that he
                        Quote: free
                        criticizing socialism indiscriminately.


                        Quote: free
                        Fine, now justify that what you are describing is socialism.
                        "Why? Why should I justify you - according to Soviet propaganda, what was socialism?"
                        Or do you think socialism was separate - and the new burs in dentistry separately?


                        And because the word Mr. on your back does not mean that you are. Is not it?
                        Are you criticizing the USSR for criticizing?
                      5. your1970
                        your1970 20 August 2019 15: 11
                        +1
                        Quote: free
                        And because the word Mr. on your back does not mean that you are. Is not it?
                        -strong answer, very strong ....
                        Quote: free
                        Are you criticizing the USSR for criticizing?
                        - I criticize the USSR - as you rightly noted .....
                        Socialism separately it is pointless to criticize from the USSR - it did not exist in nature
                      6. free
                        free 20 August 2019 20: 19
                        -1
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: free
                        And because the word Mr. on your back does not mean that you are. Is not it?
                        -strong answer, very strong ....
                        Quote: free
                        Are you criticizing the USSR for criticizing?
                        - I criticize the USSR - as you rightly noted .....
                        Socialism separately it is pointless to criticize from the USSR - it did not exist in nature


                        And what you didn’t like, you don’t agree with the word on the back, but you easily agree with what they say from the high stands without bothering to check.
                        Socialism separately it is pointless to criticize from the USSR - it did not exist in nature
                        Since in the face of the USSR you criticize primarily socialism, then you will probably easily answer the question what is socialism? And try to describe in your own words, isn’t it difficult for you?
                      7. your1970
                        your1970 20 August 2019 21: 30
                        0
                        Quote: free
                        with what they say from the high stands easily agree without bothering to check.
                        - give an example from what I wrote - where I agreed with "the words from the high stands" and even "without bothering to check." I gave all the examples from my life - what I encountered ....

                        Quote: free
                        Since in the person of the USSR you criticize primarily socialism
                        "Where did you see this from me? why did you get this?"
                        I have a little vice versa
                        Quote: free
                        - I criticize the USSR - as you rightly noted .....
                      8. free
                        free 24 August 2019 17: 38
                        -1
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: free
                        with what they say from the high stands easily agree without bothering to check.
                        - give an example from what I wrote - where I agreed with "the words from the high stands" and even "without bothering to check." I gave all the examples from my life - what I encountered ....

                        Quote: free
                        Since in the person of the USSR you criticize primarily socialism
                        "Where did you see this from me? why did you get this?"
                        I have a little vice versa
                        Quote: free
                        - I criticize the USSR - as you rightly noted .....


                        Then clarify for yourself what you criticize in the person of the USSR?
                2. grandson of Perun
                  grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 14: 05
                  +47
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  when scoop

                  I understand that your anti-Sovietism is going through the roof, but you should not be like foreign Russophobes. The USSR, like the Russian Federation - this is your homeland and your country. Spitting in your homeland you spit in yourself.

                  Quote: Flamberg
                  nobody knew that they really live like rogues

                  Really didn't know. Because they were not rogues.
                  A fact that will not break your stereotypes just because of your stubbornness: the inhabitants of many Western countries envied Soviet people. I know from personal communication with them.

                  Quote: Flamberg
                  With the scoop there was no choice. After the scoop, it turned out that domestic cars are buckets with nuts

                  Firstly, there was a choice. In the USSR, cars of different classes were produced from inexpensive Zaporozhets to prestigious Volga.
                  Secondly, your knowledge about Soviet cars is clearly from programs like the Comedy Club or the same clownish KVN. Because "buckets with nuts" were exported to many countries (including the Federal Republic of Germany, which has its own auto industry). And the Niva brand was so popular that General Motors bought it.

                  Quote: Flamberg
                  much that the scoop produced from household turned out to be filthy quality

                  Therefore, my mother now uses a "low-quality" Soviet vacuum cleaner because another "high-quality" imported one has fallen apart.
                  I repeat once again: you are pushing propaganda without knowing the topic. Otherwise, they wouldn’t write rubbish about Soviet household appliances, which were probably inferior to imported only in design. Although in consumer electronics, we lagged behind. But not critical.

                  Quote: Flamberg
                  The USSR lasted only 69 years and fell apart due to the fact that it rotted from the inside

                  The USSR did not collapse on its own. For a long time and persistently it was destroyed by the "hot-loved" West and spent a lot of resources on it. Read about the Harvard Project to broaden your horizons.
                  But the USSR traitors inside the country finally collapsed.
                  If the country died due to the betrayal of the elites, this does not mean that people (everyone, not just the elect) lived badly in it!
                  1. AU Ivanov.
                    AU Ivanov. 14 August 2019 15: 30
                    -35
                    It is, of course, yes. The quality of Soviet technology taught citizens to work with their hands. I was especially impressed by the wheel bolts hammered with a sledgehammer into your vaunted Niva. The "Volga" system washing machine demanded words that were banned on this site. Armor-piercing boots "Skorokhod", incendiary TV sets "Raduga" Undoubtedly high quality. Cast iron pans were really good.
                    1. grandson of Perun
                      grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 16: 14
                      +25
                      Quote: AS Ivanov.
                      The wheel bolts clogged with a sledgehammer in your much-praised Niva were especially impressed

                      Have you yourself seen the "wheel bolts hammered with a sledgehammer" or have you been told about it at the Comedy Club?
                      This is complete nonsense. Think its head: why locksmith score individually each of bolts with a sledgehammer if he physically lighter, simpler and faster twist all 5 bolts at once a special tool suspended on a counterweight?

                    2. polar fox
                      polar fox 14 August 2019 17: 40
                      +11
                      Quote: AS Ivanov.
                      The wheel bolts clogged with a sledgehammer in your much-praised Niva were especially impressed.

                      I hasten to upset, there was no such tool on the conveyor. from the word SOVSEM.sam.you know whether he worked on the assembly line, and saw HOW and WHAT people do.
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 August 2019 18: 05
                        +7
                        Quote: polar fox
                        I hasten to upset, there was no such tool on the conveyor. from the word SOVSEM.sam.you know whether he worked on the assembly line, and saw HOW and WHAT people do.

                        It was he on the topic "I heard the ringing, but did not see where he is." laughing With a bronze sledgehammer, we hammered the studs into the drum hub during truck repairs. Bridge repair section.
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 August 2019 22: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: polar fox
                        did you know on the conveyor worked

                        Hi Zema. drinks The same worked, 45-2, 3rd line. Only for a long time, and not for long. From 88th to 90th. hi
                    3. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 14 August 2019 20: 56
                      +10
                      Quote: AS Ivanov.
                      The wheel bolts clogged with a sledgehammer in your much-praised Niva were especially impressed.

                      Seriously? But you don’t know that the middle class in the USA rides on rusted troughs of Japanese and mattress production?
                      Quote: AS Ivanov.
                      The "Volga" system washing machine demanded words that were banned on this site.

                      And the housing in which the Americans live requires words as tall as a nine-story mat ... why are you so modestly silent about this, didn’t it?
                      Quote: AS Ivanov.
                      Armor-piercing boots "Skorokhod", incendiary TVs "Rainbow"

                      Uti ways ... straight cut the truth of the uterus. I had a Rainbow-716 TV and you know, it served 30! years without repair. This is so, Schaub you didn’t very much wave the mattress flag here .... yeah.
                      1. StVahmistr
                        StVahmistr 15 August 2019 15: 03
                        +7
                        I’ll just add that the Pamir refrigerator, produced at the Samarkand plant, donated to me in 1980, continues to work perfectly well for my mother-in-law. And it was not even repaired even once! Color TV for 900 rubles? So what? They gave a loan and slowly paid off without exorbitant interest. Vouchers? They ran after me and begged me to go "to heal". IZH Combi, bought by my father in 1975, had to be sold in Tashkent in 2009, because a woodpecker invented customs clearance. There were so many minor repairs and there was no major overhaul. Disassembled, was not needed. And for so long you can still add something. The author is just bought, and those who agree with him, either with the wind in their heads, or lose a lot when they return to the USSR!
                      2. region58
                        region58 15 August 2019 20: 24
                        +3
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        Rainbow 716 TV and you know, it served 30! years without repair

                        I understood your idea, and basically agree with it, but here you seem to have gone too far ... If you even bought it from the very beginning of production - in 1977, then it served you (from your own words) until 2007. Considering that there was also a PTC for 12 channels in this TV (in some models there was still SKD) and no remote control, it is extremely curious how you operated it. I will also say that the owners of these TVs, from small to large, as our Father knew the names: TVS90LTS5, KTs109, 6P45S ...
                        In no way I want to find fault with our appliances (including household appliances) - there was a normal technique (and many copies still work for themselves ...), with its own peculiarities and nuances, but normal, but the expressions "were made at the end of the quarter "and" done at the end of the year "were familiar to everyone, and everyone understood their meaning.
                      3. your1970
                        your1970 20 August 2019 12: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        Uti ways ... straight cut the truth of the uterus. I had a Rainbow-716 TV and you know, it served 30! years without repair
                        -
                        grandfather to carry the TV color Horizon (second generation) for repair - made a wheelbarrow. And we are with him WEEKLY they drove him to the workshop for repair, the workshop was nearby ... The store refused to return the money - referring to the TV being repaired. The annual saga ended with the grandfather agreeing that the master would burn something that was not repaired inside. The grandfather joyfully bought black and white and repented colored watch

                        Quote: StWahmister
                        Just add, the Pamir refrigerator, produced at the Samarkand plant, presented to me in 1980, continues to work perfectly with my mother-in-law. And not even repaired even once!
                        - I am embarrassed to remind that there is nothing to break there, in general.
                        Compressor + starting relay + regulator - if the freon does not leak and there are no power surges, this trinity can work even longer. "Nast" has been working with us since the 70s

                        Quote: StWahmister
                        Vouchers? They ran after me and begged me to go "to heal".
                        extremely controversial grandfather disabled war working for the opportunity to go on a trip pass 1 times in 1975 in honor of the Victory. And all .... a simple driver transporting hard workers on a loaf no one needed to run and persuade him ....
                    4. Nikolaevich I
                      Nikolaevich I 15 August 2019 01: 02
                      +4
                      Quote: AS Ivanov.
                      The "Volga" system washing machine demanded words that were banned on this site. Armor-piercing boots "Skorokhod", incendiary TVs "Rainbow

                      How much nonsense! It was as if they had specially "climbed" into the site "Potroll of the USSR"! As if imported equipment did not break! And the same thing happened to her as it did to Soviet household appliances. The Biryusa refrigerator worked for me for 35 years (first in a city block, then in a dacha ...) until I sold the dacha .. .. the further fate of "Biryusa" I do not know ... The "Record" TV set worked for "countless" years, until a neighbor from a dacha association begged it for the "shabashniki" building a house for him ... "Skorokhod" shoes were supplied for border ... Etc. , etc. !
                    5. Victor Leningradets
                      Victor Leningradets 15 August 2019 14: 55
                      +3
                      Where does this stupid legend about "bolts hammered with a sledgehammer" come from?
                      Personally, I worked on the assembly line for assembling tractor cabs in 1978. The great designers did not calculate, and the bosses for the bolts did not become perpendicular to the axes of the bolts in the reciprocal part.
                      What was done:
                      As a young sledgehammer specialist, I took it in my hands and, with the knowledge of the master, delivered four metered blows to correct the defect. A painter ran up and painted over scars from a sledgehammer. Everything, then the part went to the assembly, where all the bolts were wrapped with a pneumatic tool.
                      I told my friends about this case, and three months later, from a man who had never seen a conveyor belt, I found out “to what these authorities have sunk, they are driving bolts into Kirovets with a sledgehammer!”.
                      It seems that everyone who tells us about the "greatness of the late USSR", "the horrors of totalitarianism" or "Rocompot" is re-singing someone else's material, having no idea how it really was.
                    6. Fast_mutant
                      Fast_mutant 15 August 2019 20: 47
                      +2
                      Washing machine "Volga" did not wash very badly, and it was possible to wash in a "glass of water" ... Economically. The quality of TECH Lada was not an example higher than today's. Father had 21011, and we served her together. Yes, there were problems with spare parts. But it was decided. Skorokhod's boots and shoes were up to par. I didn't endure a couple of ode. Excellent, soft skin. One couple have survived to this day. Continues to serve in the garage. And there, the living conditions for shoes are not the easiest. Rainbow 716-719 were normal TVs. Not as trendy as Sony / Panasonic's cubes, but worked reliably. So there is no need for me, who was born and lived in the USSR, to say how bad it was there. It was different.
                    7. Tank hard
                      Tank hard 15 August 2019 21: 04
                      +1
                      Quote: AS Ivanov.
                      Armor-piercing boots "Skorokhod"

                      I had sneakers from the Leningrad factory "Skorokhod", there were Yugoslav red running shoes, there were adidas of our production (1984-86). and so, with the design and strength not inferior to adiks and yugoslavs, "Skorokhody" were fastened with Velcro, in contrast to those. Both the Adiks and the Yugoslavs were lace-up, they were not with Velcro! About TV "rainbow" the same, perhaps I will say. We took a push-button coffin for 500 rubles in the store, it never broke! I remember the ZiL refrigerator at my mother-in-law (my wife's mother from her first marriage), I worked back in 2000, I don't remember any further, because I got divorced and moved to another region. so that quality things in the USSR were able to do! good Another thing is that not everything there was as wonderful as some wish to present now. Yes, and I do not believe in the reincarnation of the USSR. request
                  2. iaf-man
                    iaf-man 14 August 2019 22: 10
                    -4
                    I didn’t understand .. this is all a great freebie for apartments ... flights .. health ... trips and stuff, from whose pocket it went? Show me 1 more country in the world where a similar system works? For a long time and not for a couple of years ... over there .. duro ruined his freebie och quickly
                    You say the West was ruining it? And Seser was sitting for 70 years and drooling chtoli? Who prevented him from ruining the West .. and so rotten after all))))))))))
                    1. grandson of Perun
                      grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 23: 51
                      +3
                      Quote: iaf-man
                      West say you are falling apart?

                      Will you deny it?

                      Quote: iaf-man
                      seser sat for 70 years and drooled chtoli? who prevented him from breaking up the west

                      The USSR has survived two devastating wars in 70 years, and this is not counting the Cold War with the arms race.
                      And about the West to ruin there is a saying "you don't have to judge everyone by yourself." The states constantly unleash wars around the world and constantly parasitize other countries. On the contrary, the USSR helped other countries.
                    2. Tank hard
                      Tank hard 15 August 2019 21: 11
                      +1
                      Quote: iaf-man
                      show me another 1 country in the world where a similar system works?

                      For example, in the United States, they give "social housing" and discount food stamps to the poor. hi
                      1. iaf-man
                        iaf-man 16 August 2019 00: 03
                        0
                        This is not only in the United States, almost all Western Europe is socialist ... and free education and assistance to the poor .. but this is due to taxes from high salaries and not a complete freebie
                3. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 14 August 2019 18: 11
                  +11
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  Well then, complaining about life? Just when the scoop, no one knew that in fact they live like rogues.

                  You, wise guy Kuchugur, take a look at how your favorite mattresses live. In plywood sheds and on credit to the very end of the floor. With the scoop, as you have not cleverly put it here, it was one of the best medicine, and free, education, also free ... the state gave out apartments, and not plywood booths. And people lived with confidence tomorrow. About crime so I generally am silent.
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  So everything rises in price not only energy carriers.

                  And this is what the USSR protected us from, that is, from stupid Western capitalism. Energy prices rose strongly during the USSR? How much water and heat could not be recalled?
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  So again it turned out that it wasn’t much that the scoop produced from the household turned out to be filthy quality to no one.

                  Again stupid poklep. I’ll tell you, in my specialty. There is modern furniture. I won’t talk about luxury furniture, because not everyone can afford it. But I can explain to you about middle-class furniture. Buying such furniture through 5-6 years at best, they’re called a furniture repairman, because, excuse me, the quality of the furniture is bad. And now we recall the Soviet sofa book. I am sure that more than half of those sitting here have such a house, in the country, and so on ... so this sofa has been used for 50-60 years and at least that. And why? Made for people, not for cattle.
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  ps The USA has rotted since the 1776 of the year, already the 243 of the year, but something is still wrong ..

                  The United States, at the expense of two world warriors, rose and became rich. And they are getting richer now, only with the help of loans, the debt of a madman, who will never give up, and the European idiots who fell under them.
                  And by the way, have you been to the USA? Can you show you how middle-class people live there or are they tense themselves by searching? The United States has decayed for a long time, as a state, and now it is a state, as one big reservation. And the people who went to look for the American dream there are now returning back to our impoverished Russia.

                  Quote: Flamberg
                  The USSR lasted only 69 years and fell apart due to the fact that it has rotted from the inside, which the majority does not want to recognize and with a tenacity worthy of better use, is looking for extreme ...

                  The USSR collapsed due to the betrayal of the elites, but not because of the people, or lack of money, or because of the idiotic hypothesis of mattresses that could not stand the arms race.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 14 August 2019 22: 09
                    +2
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    so this sofa serves for 50-60 years

                    And there are legends about ZIL refrigerators! Only problematic to find seals now.
                    1. AU Ivanov.
                      AU Ivanov. 15 August 2019 14: 33
                      +1
                      Refrigerator Mir. Serves faithfully since 1961. True, one "but": his compressor is General Electric. The issue with the dried seals was solved by gluing a conventional silicone window seal along the contour of the body.
                  2. region58
                    region58 15 August 2019 20: 36
                    +2
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    About crime so I'm generally silent.

                    yes In conversations with young people, it happens that you mention that the police went without weapons and even without handcuffs ... Not everyone even believes how it is possible ...
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 20 August 2019 13: 33
                      0
                      Quote: region58
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      About crime so I'm generally silent.

                      yes In conversations with young people, it happens that you mention that the police went without weapons and even without handcuffs ... Not everyone even believes how it is possible ...
                      -
                      crime was not much less - Hadi Taktash was already in 70 for example ...
                      Just then, an attack on a representative of the authorities-oh-oh-oh-oh !!!! The population understood that it was not worth joking with the authorities ....
                      Just for understanding - according to the then Criminal Code, the one who threw the ballot box at OMON would receive not 15 days, and 15 years cumulative minimum
                      1. region58
                        region58 20 August 2019 22: 40
                        0
                        Quote: your1970
                        according to the then Criminal Code threw the ballot box in OMON

                        I'm talking about earlier times. Riot police, as I recall, appeared in the late eighties.
                        Quote: your1970
                        crime was not much less

                        Maybe where it was. Only in our area, even the doors, it happened, leaving the house did not lock.
                      2. your1970
                        your1970 20 August 2019 22: 56
                        0
                        naturally riot police end xnumx's

                        but I'm talking about the principle itself.
                        To break up a fight at discos - 2 cops and a "Lunokhod" UAZ were enough for their ears. Moreover, 5-7 people were deported to the regional department at once - and everyone walked in silence, without kicking or yelling "Yes, I walked by !!"

                        The mere fact of presence was sufficient for the precinct - for NO fights .... "Well, he nafig, dumb !!" ....
                      3. region58
                        region58 20 August 2019 23: 05
                        0
                        Quote: your1970
                        The mere fact of presence was enough

                        So am I about that. yes
                        Quote: your1970
                        and everyone walked in silence, without kicking or yelling "Yes, I was walking by !!"

                        "Not like a kid" because. "Behave yourself with dignity" - was imprinted on the brain from childhood.
                        PS
                        Yes, and you will not go anywhere, because the district police officer knew everyone without exception. Well, about the fact that there will be a serious "conversation" at home - this is a separate topic ...
                        P.P.S
                        Quote: your1970
                        To disperse fights at discos

                        The fight at the disco of that time was an innocent prank against the background of today's reality. Bruising basically cost ...
                4. vlados
                  vlados 14 August 2019 22: 51
                  0
                  Comrade, I support you with pleasure. Beggars at the scoop also ached, it’s just that now there are more rich people and they are shivering even more.
                5. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 14 August 2019 22: 53
                  +3
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  Yeah ... Scientific communism, scientifically argued that the west will soon decay, but it turned out somehow the other way around.

                  do not confuse Stalinist communism and post-Stalinist socialism. Compare before 1966: "The main task of the CPSU is the all-round development of the personality of every Soviet person and the improvement of his well-being" and after September 1966. - "... the task of the CPSU is the fullest satisfaction of the needs of the Soviet people"
                  Satisfying needs, this is agree the main element of Capitalism. And with the implemented methods of cost accounting and self-financing, this quickly killed the planned system, created a wild imbalance in supply and created the class of the Soviet bourgeois.
            2. grandson of Perun
              grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 12: 57
              +22
              Quote: Flamberg
              Now what doesn’t work? And now they work and live no worse than with the scoop.

              About work. In the USSR there was no problem with work, and the pay was decent. And now, just in agriculture, work has begun to appear. About decent wages generally silent.
              About live. In the USSR there was good free medicine, a good free education, affordable transportation, free housing without bonded mortgages. Now, good (at the same time not cheap) medicine is only in large cities, the level of education has fallen (and you also have to pay for it). Your trump card theme is, firstly, it is difficult to buy without a loan (bank bondage), secondly, the quality of vaunted foreign cars has fallen dramatically over the past 20 years, and now, in terms of price / quality ratio, they are no better than our brands, which, on the contrary, have tightened up.
              1. Fayter2017
                Fayter2017 14 August 2019 17: 08
                +5
                I’ll put in my 5 kopecks: in Ukraine the best-selling used car in the VAZ in VAZ 2107, in Cherkassy VAZ 2109 ...
                This speaks both of the poor and impoverished population, and of the reliability of machines designed and manufactured back in the USSR and in the 90s in Ukraine, i.e. value for money is optimal.
                1. region58
                  region58 15 August 2019 20: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Fayter2017
                  optimal price-quality ratio

                  Also maintainability ...
              2. vlados
                vlados 14 August 2019 22: 56
                -3
                Do not carry nonsense. Not a single person with money will buy shitLada. The best automakers both were and still are the damned capitalists from Germany, the USA and Japan (they are the worst enemies of the Russian women)
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 14 August 2019 23: 24
                  +3
                  Quote: vlados
                  Do not carry nonsense. Not a single person with money will buy shitLada. The best automakers both were and still are the damned capitalists from Germany, the USA and Japan (they are the worst enemies of the Russian women)

                  Also, not a single American who lives in less prosperity will not buy mattress food, but very often buys food that is exported from Russia. By the way, capitalists will not turn their nose off Russian wheat.
                  And about the domestic auto industry ... here it is not only a pocket, but also a matter of taste. In Russia, many craftsmen who, from the same Lada, in their garage, for their pleasure, make cars no worse than Germans in factories.
                  And by the way ... how much progressive Europe and the USA created the Ebola vaccine and didn’t? Well, in the Russian Federation they created TWO vaccines within six months. Although before that, Ebola was considered incurable. In any case, mattresses and Europeans said so to everyone.
                  Such a rocket engine as RD-180, with such parameters, mattresses responsibly declared that it was IMPOSSIBLE to create. And to this day, turnips are scratched. And we have been producing it for a long time, and they are selling it to these mattresses. So sho there at the expense of Lada you gurgled?
                  1. Town Hall
                    Town Hall 14 August 2019 23: 33
                    +2
                    Quote: NEXUS

                    Also, not a single American who lives in less prosperity will not buy mattress food, but very often buys food that is exported from Russia.

                    Masterpiece laughing Read your pearls-KVN quietly smokes on the sidelines .... You will be torn into quotes ... I would think about copyright protection ...
                  2. vlados
                    vlados 15 August 2019 01: 03
                    -1
                    Firstly, I would not compare such things as a car and wheat, bread or vodka.
                    Secondly, no one has done Mercedes from the way, you won’t give an example either, because you yourself know that besides a Zhiguli with chrome discs they don’t particularly remind Germans of anything.
                    Thirdly, the Americans did not say that it was impossible to create an analogue of the RD-180, they said that it was just a shame to do this and spend a lot of money and money on it. Now private companies are doing this and are demonstrating tremendous successes that Roskosmos does not boast of with its billions of dollars.
                    And Lada is shit and shame. Ask Putin or Medvedev, or any other non-poor person with a sense of taste)
                2. grandson of Perun
                  grandson of Perun 15 August 2019 00: 19
                  +3
                  Quote: vlados
                  Do not carry nonsense. Not a single person with money will buy shitLada.

                  First, do not judge others by yourself.
                  Secondly, if your tongue turns to call Vesta or IxRae "shit Lada" then this clearly indicates your bias and bias, to put it mildly.
                  Thirdly, non-biased foreigners sell for example Datsun miDo. Google what this model is.

                  Quote: vlados
                  Cursed capitalists from Germany, the USA and Japan were and still were the best automakers.

                  In addition to PR the best in what? Especially the USA what
                  Lada in a good configuration costs about 800 thousand. I wonder which new German, state or Japanese car you buy for 800 thousand?
                  1. vlados
                    vlados 15 August 2019 00: 41
                    -7
                    As I said, a person who has money will buy a German, an American or a Japanese. A man with a lot of money will buy an Italian. A person who has 800 thousand rubles + brains will buy a good used German, American or Japanese, and not a bucket of bolts that stops driving after 100 km from the factory (google Sasha Gray on Kalin shit :))). Therefore, the defenders of the domestic shit industry can go on reading the reviews of the "Americans" that are published by Russian journalists.
                    1. grandson of Perun
                      grandson of Perun 15 August 2019 09: 21
                      +1
                      There is a very simple way to determine whether a person thinks with his own head or thoughtlessly repeats the stereotypes embedded in his head. Mindlessly repeating as a rule are overly emotional (even aggressive), reflect and do not even answer simple questions.
                      1. So which new German, state or Japanese car you buy for 800 thousand?
                      2. Is it smart to compare products whose value varies at times?
                      3. You yourself understand reasons hatred of Russian industry?
                      PS: for you as a car connoisseur feel authoritative opinion of foreign porn actress Sasha Gray? lol
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. grandson of Perun
                        grandson of Perun 15 August 2019 10: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: vlados
                        including in jokes that just do not appear either

                        Of course, anecdotes and so-called "humorous" programs do not just appear. They appear at the request of beneficiaries who invested huge sums of money in ridicule and black PR of a competitor. Screen time on television is very expensive, and the bourgeois are not used to throwing money away.
                        By the way, did you not pay attention to the fact that in 2009 the massive persecution of our car industry in the media "suddenly" stopped abruptly, and now the stereotypes of that information war are repeated only by a few with a late ignition?
                        What do you think, why such a sharp "suddenly" and how is it connected with the construction of several foreign car plants in Russia at once?
                        And you are trying to tell me about "folk art" ...

                        Quote: vlados
                        for this money you can buy, for example, a Lexus RX350 ... I did not compare products with different costs

                        How not to compare? VW Caddy and Lexus RX350 - goods well of completely different price categories. Comparing them is like Lada Kalina with a Mercedes C series.

                        Quote: vlados
                        exploited Zhiguli both Soviet-made and Russian (frets)

                        To judge modern Ladas by Soviet classics ...
                        Classics have not been produced for a long time. Samara-2 has not been produced for a long time. The "tens" family is also not produced. None of the VAZ that you drove is produced.
                        What do you know about West or XRay? Of course, in addition to the fact that different clowns and porn actresses talk about them. You may not believe it, but the quality of modern Ladas is at the level of foreign cars so beloved by you.

                        And finally. Now for 800 thousand (Kalina in a good configuration or Vesta) you are not a single new Do not buy German, State or Japanese. Only a Chinese or some Frenchman in the most empty configuration.
                      3. vlados
                        vlados 15 August 2019 14: 32
                        0
                        It's hard to argue with you, do not bring any new examples and arguments. As for black PR, no one imported foreign cars during the scoop, and Zhiguli was pretty much watered with shit, and therefore not to the benefit of anyone. And if Vesta is so awesome, send an info where at least one official has declared it, or a picture of at least one oligarch on it. Do not find? Because not a single person who has money and regularly encounters cars will buy it. I speak on behalf of the whole nation that does not suffer from brain patriotism !!))
                        By the way, if you buy Lada for patriotic reasons (a worthy deed, by the way), this is your right, only this does not confirm the quality and reliability of this product.
                        PS Geely’s neighbor drove 150000 flawlessly, so note about the Chinese with Japanese motors :)
                      4. grandson of Perun
                        grandson of Perun 15 August 2019 15: 30
                        +1
                        Quote: vlados
                        do not give any new examples and arguments

                        Well, from you, apart from personal opinion and a reference to a humorous show, I have not heard anything. wink
                        Want an example? He is to me hi
                        I live in Kaliningrad, where junk car dealers from Europe yelled "better an old foreign car than our new car" no less loudly than junk car dealers from Japan in Vladivostok.
                        And now, when Kalina, Vesta and IxRei began to be produced instead of the outdated Samara and "dozen", I see them more and more on the roads of Kaliningrad.
                        And this despite the fact that we have our own Avtotor automobile plant, which Kia collects from car kits.

                        As for the arguments. Google on the topic of controlled wear, the leaders of which were first automakers in the United States, then Japan, and then Germany. It is those countries that you admired.
                        It is in the spirit of a consumer society: bought a car - traveled for several years - bought a new one.

                        Quote: vlados
                        no one imported foreign cars into the scoop, and Zhiguli was watered with shit

                        Firstly, you should not be like Russophobes and use the "scoop" in relation to your homeland. No.
                        Secondly, why did the USSR have to spend currency on the import of foreign cars? Currency needs to be spent more intelligently on something that they themselves have not yet released. And the USSR itself managed and produced cars of different classes from Zaporozhets to the Volga in the amount of more than a million a year.
                        Thirdly, how the Cossacks ridiculed (most of them undeservedly) - I remember. I do not remember making fun of the Lada in the USSR.
                        The information bullying of VAZ began only in the late 90s, already in capitalist Russia, because the bourgeois realized that economic "reforms" had not succeeded in ruining the car plant, which had a very large percentage of the Russian market. Which they eventually redistributed in their favor.
                        Money, a lot of money decided everything. And you tell me again about jokes and "folk art" ...

                        Quote: vlados
                        if Vesta is so awesome, send an info where at least one official declared her, or a picture of at least one oligarch on her

                        Do you seriously think that any snickering person with income in several million a day will buy for himself budgetary machine worth a small portion of your daily income? what
                        Then why did you write this?
                      5. mkop
                        mkop 15 August 2019 16: 31
                        +1
                        So note you. Mitsubishi Pajero Sport, the native engine did not pass and 100. It just got stuck on the track. Due to overheating. At the same time, not a single sensor blundered even about overheating. To replace the engine. Now the electronic pedal has broken, engine revolutions greater than 000 do not rise. The car has not been running for several weeks. Speaking of the quality of the Japanese. Keep tugging on foreign cars further.
                      6. your1970
                        your1970 20 August 2019 23: 06
                        0
                        Quote: mkop
                        Mitsubishi Pajero Sport, the native engine did not pass and 100 000.
                        -
                        "If you drive a Range Rover for more than 2 months in a row and nothing breaks, you have been slipped a Chinese fake. A real Range Rover breaks down regularly like clockwork!"
                    2. your1970
                      your1970 20 August 2019 23: 18
                      +1
                      Quote: vlados
                      Google Sasha Gray on shitKalin :)))
                      - we follow hands:
                      The final report about the event appeared on the website of the organizers 27 May 2013 years (“by tradition, our next project will be even cooler and more fun!”), and per day before that, an open letter to teammates was published on another resource, ladakalina.ru. We give its text in full:
                      “An open letter to the participants of the Lada Kalina Club and to everyone who is not indifferent to the situation with the“ Dromovskaya Kalina ”.
                      Dear teammates! Two and a half years ago reporters from one Far Eastern website bought Lada Kalina Sport with a "muddy" story and drove her into a motor rally from Moscow to Vladivostok. No regrets. Then on the racetracks “Tested” and checked on “gravel roads”. And they also gave it to the "flower-haters", got into an accident and unsuccessfully repaired.
                      From the very beginning, this story smelled black PR, but only now it has taken truly unprecedented forms. The authors of the blog invited to visit Russia the Internet-famous pornstar Sasha Gray (Sasha Gray, real name is Mariina Ann Heentsis), having promised a fee of 15 million rubles and the opportunity to drive Lada Kalina Sport.
                      What the car was, to say the least, used (!!!!!!!), do not hide the event organizers themselves. Here is what Mikhail Schetinin says in the video on Gudok.ru: “We are testing Kalina with 2010 years. I went to it most of the time, and very often people ask me: "Can I ride? ” I rarely refuse, and sometimes it’s very scary with these people: they cannot start, stall, and so on. ” We omit the pronounced negative tone of the statement, which can be interpreted as "most normal people simply can’t travel to Kalina", and focus on this: the car was operated by persons who did not treat it at all as if it were their own car.
                      “The car did not happen in registration accidents, but accidents did happen. One time they nearly flew off the bridge, the other - a piece of scrap metal flew into the car. ” A description of both incidents with photographs can also be found without problems. The front bumper was damaged in the case of the bridge - the car cut into a concrete block.

                      Under those starting conditions in which Kalina participated in the rally, any the car could break down after the exercises, perpetrated by Sasha Gray from the organizers. But the question is: would it be just as fun, biting and resonant if a non-Lada car broke at the start of the rally? Of course not.- any car for 3 year of the ownerless You can kill like that. At least Mercedes is at least Kalina.
                  2. cradle
                    cradle 15 August 2019 06: 00
                    +2
                    If I get together with money I will buy Vesta necessarily! And let them talk about her slop. I saw a self-normal device.
                3. Wolga
                  Wolga 15 August 2019 10: 34
                  0
                  You said the extremely correct thing - "who has money", and there are many of them in today's RF? Or does the average earnings in the country allow you to buy something better? The relevance of the expression is better than an old foreign car than a new domestic "bucket" has now lost its relevance. And this is connected both with economic reasons - auto manufacturers make a bet and lay the resource of equipment in a maximum of 5 years, after which the car begins to "crumble" and it becomes unreasonable to use it. And spare parts for old foreign cars are made by our "brothers" from China, as well as new cars. Do you need to talk about the quality of these spare parts?
                4. region58
                  region58 15 August 2019 20: 50
                  0
                  Quote: vlados
                  Not a single person with money will buy shitLada.

                  It depends on where he lives.
                  PS I have a friend, "Priora" with him, it happens that, they say, something better is needed ... I say: "why, it breaks often?" - answers thoughtfully: "for nine years - only consumables" ...
                  As they say - information for consideration ...
              3. your1970
                your1970 20 August 2019 13: 35
                0
                Quote: Perun's grandson
                In the USSR there was no problem with work, and the pay was decent.

                you forgot about the Soviet poor - which 60 rubles received (lower wage bar) - nannies, nurses, cleaners, postmen, librarians, shift workers and so on. For any recounting options, these are current 10 000, no more
              4. your1970
                your1970 20 August 2019 13: 36
                +1
                Quote: Perun's grandson
                In the USSR there was no problem with work, and the pay was decent.


                you forgot about the Soviet poor - which 60 rubles received (lower wage bar) - nannies, nurses, cleaners, postmen, librarians, shift workers and so on. For any recounting options, these are current 10 000, no more
            3. cradle
              cradle 15 August 2019 05: 57
              +6
              No need to lie. Your not favorite "scoop" made it possible for a simple hard worker to earn not less, but more than an engineering technician. It is to EARN. Now even if you tear your navel, the hard worker will not work. Rather, some kind of defective manager will work, who will find a contract and think what an awesome manager and organizer he is. Is it good? Hardly. The very principle of receiving remuneration for work is being killed. Labor has depreciated.
              [quote = And now they work and live no worse than with the scoop. [/ quote]
              But this is very controversial. After all, the "scoop" included, in addition to the normal salary to the WORKING individual, and a fairly strong social sphere, such as: dated housing and communal services, free health care. And the most IMPORTANT thing is free education. After all, education is an opportunity to climb the social elevator. And it is not necessary to say that this is "fsё garbage". It is very important for a young person to be able to. This opportunity has been deprived of many, now. It is clear that in the presence of assertiveness and some kind of "rear" thread in the form of parents, it is possible even now. But the "rear" is stronger in one child in a family than in a large family (with three himself). Hence the demography .... and fsё- sailed.
              I have clearly outlined the whole loin of the current situation? Or will we argue? Your bat card is gru in advance.
            4. Witness 45
              Witness 45 15 August 2019 13: 05
              +5
              Some are not worse, and some, especially in small towns and villages, where the "reformers" killed real production, is much worse. I do not idealize life in the USSR, but during the times of the USSR there was such a wild material stratification of citizens of one country, even high-ranking party and government officials lived in apartments and drove by cars, which today's middle-class business man would disdain to use. Sensitive at all times for our people, the topic of truth and justice is shamelessly trampled by those in power. And then, those who live better began to live better, not because the level of real material production has risen, but because with even greater intensity they began to sell off national wealth, leaving the future generation of Russian citizens on the beans, our president most of his time only and is engaged in foreign policy that, wherever and to whom else to forward a gas or oil pipe. That's the whole point of your "better". Of course, if you are like a pig that stands at a full trough and grunts joyfully because he does not suffer from hunger, and does not think what will happen to him tomorrow, then yes, everything is OK, you can continue to rejoice.
            5. meandr51
              meandr51 15 August 2019 16: 39
              0
              Worse, and much worse. Moscow and Khanty-Mansiysk may not be worse. But not better either. And the rest are definitely worse. They work twice as much, get less, products are worse and more expensive. I have just come from Karelia, I spoke to the hard workers. If you ask them, they themselves will go mowing down "businessmen" and "politicians". But nobody asks them. While.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 14 August 2019 10: 25
        +31
        Quote: Freeman
        Yeah. There was no type.

        do not be offended, the history of the country he apparently begins with the opening of McDonald’s laughing
    2. Megatron
      Megatron 14 August 2019 05: 50
      +24
      And what, isn’t that the case, corruption has reached an unprecedented scale.
      Medveputes intensively ruin the country and squander.
      1. Flamberg
        Flamberg 14 August 2019 05: 53
        -50
        In the scoop, too, they stole and not a few, there was simply no one to tell about this. The information was exclusively politically correct !!!
        1. cradle
          cradle 14 August 2019 06: 59
          +19
          Quote: Flamberg
          In the scoop, too, they stole and not a few, there was simply no one to tell about this.
          But then you were in the know, by love
          1. Flamberg
            Flamberg 14 August 2019 07: 06
            -30
            And you about how Andropov fought corruption and on what scale it was read, and then balabolte.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 14 August 2019 11: 17
              +23
              Quote: Flamberg
              And you about how Andropov fought corruption and on what scale it was read, and then balabolte.

              the site accepted evenly respects opponents. Corruption under the Union is babble compared to the current one. Do not cast a shadow over the wattle fence.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 14 August 2019 12: 33
                -7
                Quote: Silvestr
                Corruption under the Union is babble compared to the current one.

                Seriously?
                ... were arrested and then convicted: to capital punishment - the former Minister of the cotton ginning industry of Uzbekistan V. Usmanov, head of the OBKhSS of Bukhara region A. Muzafarov; to different terms of imprisonment: son-in-law of L. I. Brezhnev Yu. M. Churbanov, first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Uzbekistan I. B. Usmanhodzhaev, former secretaries of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Republic A. Salimov, E. Aitmuratov and R. Abdullaev, first secretaries of the regional committees: Tashkent - Musakhanov, Fergana - Umarov, Namangan - N. Radjabov, Karakalpak - K. Kamalov, Bukharsky - Abduvakhid Karimov and his successor I. Dzhabbarov, Surkhandaryinsky - Abdukhalik Karimov, former chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Republic N. D. Khudayberdyev, head of the Papal agro-industrial associations named after V.I. Lenin of the Namangan region A. Adylov, generals of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the republic Yahyaev, Norov, Norbutaev, Jamalov, Satarov, Sabirov, Colonel Begelman

                And this is just what came to court - and that’s only because Yuri Vladimirovich didn’t take Sharaf Rashidovich into the spirit and, as soon as he became the Secretary General, he immediately decided to start the sweep.
                And how many first secretaries and members of the Central Committee remain behind the scenes? Dear Eduard Amvrosievich, for example ....
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 14 August 2019 12: 42
                  +8
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Seriously?

                  yes!
                  According to the Prosecutor General’s Office, the level of corruption in modern Russia is approximately $ 240 billion per year. This amount is approximately 1,5 of the current annual budget of the country and 1/3 of GDP (respectively 178 and 751 billion dollars).

                  A simple question is, if everything was stolen before the year 2000, then how does the country live?
                2. Digital error
                  Digital error 14 August 2019 13: 02
                  +4
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  were arrested and then convicted: to death - former minister ginning industry of Uzbekistan V. Usmanov, Head of OBKhSS Bukhara region A. Muzafarov; to different terms of imprisonment: son-in-law of L. I. Brezhnev Yu. M. Churbanov

                  Uh ... Mmm ... The message is clear, but it seems to play in contrast did not work ...
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 14 August 2019 14: 04
                    +3
                    Quote: DigitalError
                    Uh ... Mmm ... The message is clear, but it seems to play in contrast did not work ...

                    So I write that they cleaned out only those whose master managed to quarrel with then all-powerful Yuri Vladimirovich. And others are just as high robbers of socialist property continued their activities. And if it came to removal of litter from the hut - then they were transferred to another job.
                    For example, the 1st secretary of the Krasnodar regional committee of the CPSU, Comrade Medunov, who was involved in the "Medunovsky case" - according to the results was removed from the post of 1st secretary of the regional party committee, removed from the Central Committee of the CPSU and ... appointed deputy minister of fruit and vegetable production of the USSR ...
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 14 August 2019 22: 16
                      0
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      according to the results, he was removed from the post of the 1st secretary of the regional committee of the party,

                      Alexei, are you kidding me? They always stole, but the scales were different. And those dismissed from their posts were not transferred to another place, like Serdyukov, but imprisoned or fired.
                      1. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 14 August 2019 22: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        dismissed from their posts were not transferred to another place, like Serdyukov, but imprisoned or fired

                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        The 1st secretary of the Krasnodar regional committee of the CPSU, Comrade Medunov, who was involved in the "Medunovsky case" - according to the results was removed from the post of 1st secretary of the regional committee of the party, removed from the Central Committee of the CPSU and ... appointed deputy minister of fruit and vegetable production of the USSR

                        Refute request

                        PS: unlike you, I remember all this "live" ... my friend wink
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 August 2019 22: 32
                        0
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Refute
                        Would read for yourself how it was there. In this case, a bunch of people were imprisoned, and one was shot.
                        Sergei Medunov himself was not prosecuted, not having received significant evidence against him. He was removed from his post for “mistakes made in the manual”, but at the same time transferred to Moscow. True, not as Minister of Agriculture, and to a much less prestigious position Deputy Minister of Horticulture of the USSR. In 1985, he was retired.
                        What I like about communicating with you, Kisa, is the process of self-education. wink
                        PS
                        Vyacheslav Voronkov, who survived Medunov for 10 years, already in the 2000s spoke of a generation of Russian officials: “If we were called corrupt, then what are these?”.
                      3. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 14 August 2019 22: 50
                        -1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Would read for yourself how it was

                        This is hutspa. My friend, in those days when it was all, I studied at the institute ... and you just went to school, is the difference clear? wink

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        In this case, a bunch of people planted

                        It was about Medunov. And yours

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        dismissed from their posts were not transferred to another place, like Serdyukov, but imprisoned or fired

                        - easily refuted by this example alone. Logic, buddy, logic ... self-educate yes
                  2. cradle
                    cradle 15 August 2019 06: 04
                    0
                    Fiercely plus ... for not figs !!! It's just that corruption did not even lie close to "now", when loot is taken out of the apartment by dump trucks, after they found it. How many have not been found?
              2. vlados
                vlados 14 August 2019 22: 59
                -2
                And you will remember Vitya Suvorov and his "Aquarium": "And you can get rich here, Vitya. You just need to put the right amount of rubles in your pocket for the right policeman," said the old Jew.
            2. bayard
              bayard 14 August 2019 15: 53
              +6
              Quote: Flamberg
              And you about how Andropov fought corruption and how it was read

              Andropov with corruption? !!!
              Are you raving, citizen?
              Andropov, and at his former post, was protecting and cultivating this corruption, but he was turning agent into the highest echelon.
              Who introduced Gorbachev and Shevarnadze to the Politburo? Who covered the Gorbachev antics? But a case was opened against him and the case was investigated by the investigator for especially important cases of the KGB of the USSR ... and the case was closed after Gorbachev was URGENTLY transferred to Moscow as a member of the Central Committee ... and the case was ordered by the top (himself) closed ... And the thing is about the international drug trade ... heroin ... in those very soldiers zinc coffins from Afghanistan ... tied to the royal house of England through its MI-6 ... and Gorbachev was one of the key figures in organization and traffic control.
              And then he became Secretary General.
              True, how many corpses preceded this.

              They didn’t kill the USSR, but historical Russia. Long, stubborn, sophisticated.
              And the game is still not over.

              So you are sophisticated in the same field.
              1. andrew42
                andrew42 14 August 2019 18: 32
                +4
                I completely agree with you. After the fact, it became clear as daylight that Andropov portrayed "the fight against embezzlement" to settle accounts, and not in deed, in parallel with the elimination of some corrupt officials, systematically "cleansed the ranks" of old cadres, and was the godfather of that very group of "young progressive" non-managers: Yakovlev-Gorbachev-Shevardnadze, etc. plus Yeltsin as a spare wheel in the trunk.
            3. andrew42
              andrew42 14 August 2019 18: 44
              +3
              Settling political scores and eliminating competitors. No more. Andropov's fight against corruption is just a tool for Andropov's personal purposes. And at this time in the afternoon on the sidewalks they were catching truants, also "in the Andropov way", that is, in a stupid way. And he also threw the Andropovski into the shops so that they would not drink and not get drunk. The point is not in the fight against windmills, but in the modeling of processes at different levels of the state (the course is taken to dismantle the system), and in the selection of personnel for certain cases (future helmsmen for dismantling).
            4. meandr51
              meandr51 15 August 2019 16: 41
              0
              On a scale thousands of times smaller than now. Little was exported abroad.
        2. Svarog
          Svarog 14 August 2019 08: 20
          +37
          Quote: Flamberg
          In the scoop, too, they stole and not a few, there was simply no one to tell about this. The information was exclusively politically correct !!!

          In the USSR, theft was mostly domestic, grabbed a nut, a corner where it is not right .. And now, factories, natural resources have been stolen .. What’s called, feel the difference.
          1. Flamberg
            Flamberg 14 August 2019 08: 26
            -31
            Andropov struggled with a household thing or what? With you, scoop lovers, it's so funny to discuss. You about Thomas, and you about Yerema. You do not want to notice inconvenient facts point-blank.
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 14 August 2019 08: 36
              +26
              Quote: Flamberg
              You do not want to notice inconvenient facts point-blank.

              So you did not bring the facts. Everything, like riddles. And then, in my opinion, you don’t notice the facts. Who owns our largest companies? Who benefits from extracting our natural resources? You must know the answers to these questions, and if you know, is this not theft? And what does the people have? Raising the retirement age, taxes and other niztyaki is generally genocide ... Feel the difference.
              1. Flamberg
                Flamberg 14 August 2019 08: 46
                -23
                Blyin. Cotton business. Fishing business. Sochi-Krasnodar affair. A generation or two will pass and people will learn to assert their rights.
                1. Svarog
                  Svarog 14 August 2019 08: 50
                  +30
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  A generation or two will pass and people will learn to assert their rights.

                  Don't you notice that every year it becomes harder to do this? At this pace, we will soon defend the right to life.
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  Blyin. Cotton business. Fishing business. Sochi-Krasnodar affair.

                  That's right .. still please sound the results on these cases and compare, say with the Serdyukov case and feel the difference!
                  1. Flamberg
                    Flamberg 14 August 2019 09: 19
                    -22
                    Don't you notice that every year it becomes harder to do this? At this pace, we will soon defend the right to life.

                    I do not agree with you. They fight corruption ... they fight poorly, of course ... but Moscow was not immediately built. My wife in retirement works so God forbid anyone who transfers money to the card ... then he is tormented to explain.
                    That's right .. still please sound the results on these cases and compare, say with the Serdyukov case and feel the difference!
                    Well, then Andropov kicked everyone, neither before nor after, no one had fought corruption like that. Read about his activities.
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 14 August 2019 23: 32
                      0
                      Quote: Flamberg
                      Well, then Andropov kicked everyone, neither before nor after, no one had fought corruption like that. Read about his activities.

                      Well, I knew the former chief of the head office, the one who was involved in these matters (Gdlyan and Ivanov — his subordinates were) —all political order for the sake of clearing places for future personnel. There was nothing egregious, Andropov protected the affairs much more seriously, systemically protected and cultivated.
                      1. CommanderDIVA
                        CommanderDIVA 17 August 2019 15: 23
                        0
                        "Andropov covered things much more serious, systematically covered and cultivated" - well, what did Andropov get from this during his lifetime? He was probably going to live the rest of his life in London?
                2. AUL
                  AUL 14 August 2019 10: 51
                  +7
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  Cotton business. Fishing business. Sochi-Krasnodar affair.

                  And also? Three things - somehow not a lot in the whole post-war history!
                  1. Flamberg
                    Flamberg 14 August 2019 11: 25
                    -19
                    Why do you need more? Three is disclosed, but how many are not disclosed to one Lenin is known.
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 14 August 2019 23: 56
                      +1
                      Quote: Flamberg
                      but how many are not disclosed to one Lenin is known.

                      Well, not only Vladimir Ilyich knows about the UNSolved cases. The case of Gorbachev and two more first secretaries of regional committees WAS NOT DISCOVERED - by PERSONAL order of the "fighter against socialist corruption". And the Yakovlev case was CLOSED by the personal decision of your idol.

                      But immediately after the successful completion of the "cotton business" and the holding of personnel rotations, a massacre began in Uzbekistan - the Meskhetian Turks were slaughtered.
                      Good result ?
                      For you - YES!
                      Without the Sumgayit massacre, the Karabakh conflict, technological disasters and resonant accidents carried out by the chicks of Andropov and Co., the Union would never have collapsed.

                      ... Red field, "knightly" sword ... you shine like a Baskervilles dog in the night.
                      1. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 03: 57
                        -1
                        He is not my idol. With him, the only cases were corruption. Maybe he was just eliminating competitors who now know the truth. But the fact of corruption in the scoop was and was not less than now.
                        ... Red field, "knightly" sword ... you shine like a Baskervilles dog in the night.
                        All the best to you too ...
                      2. bayard
                        bayard 15 August 2019 10: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        . With him, the only cases were corruption.

                        Not true .
                        Under Stalin, there were more than enough such cases. You can recall the Zhukov case and the inventory of the looted goods at his dacha, "The Air Force Case" - about postscripts, theft and criminal conspiracy of the Minister of Aircraft Industry and the Air Force Commander-in-Chief, about the acceptance of defective aircraft ... DURING THE WAR. And under Stalin, there were many such cases - the authorities vigilantly monitored the observance of the rule of law by representatives of the authorities.
                        And your beloved Andropov cultivated corruption in the USSR, and the KGB brothers from the period of Brezhnev were roofing the farmers. It was on this corruption grease that the collapse of the Great Country took place later.
                        There is no better base for recruitment than corruption, and this is what the Western intelligence agencies used in a friendly spike with Andropov’s nominees.
                        And people in the USSR lived well. Ordinary people. Dissatisfied were just officials and representatives of the shadow business, who dreamed of the bourgeoisie and realized their dream.
                      3. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 10: 54
                        -2
                        Tales of the Vienna forest rest.
                        And people in the USSR lived well. Ordinary people.

                        Here in one fell swoop they took and signed for the whole union !!! There is your opinion and not corrected !!! Anyone who says a word against that counter and anti-adviser !!!
                        Who gave you the right to speak for the whole union ???
                      4. bayard
                        bayard 15 August 2019 11: 15
                        +3
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Who gave you the right to speak for the whole union ???

                        And you ?
                        I’m talking about the country in which I was born, raised, educated, served my homeland. I saw the life of the late Union in several republics - the Baltic states, the USSR, the RSFSR, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. I was young and critical of power like every young man, but my eyesight was good, and I saw a lot.
                      5. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 11: 31
                        -1
                        So I do not speak for the whole union.
                        And who were you?
                      6. bayard
                        bayard 15 August 2019 13: 38
                        +2
                        Officer of his Army.
                      7. Vlad 63
                        Vlad 63 16 August 2019 18: 29
                        0
                        Officer of his army
                        first time I hear such a turn. Usually they say "RA officer" or "SA officer". Inspired by a saying. More or less like this. All states have an army, but only the Prussian army has a state. It is immediately clear that you are proud of the fact that you served in that army. hi
                      8. bayard
                        bayard 16 August 2019 18: 51
                        +1
                        It was impossible not to be proud of that Army. drinks
                      9. meandr51
                        meandr51 15 August 2019 16: 44
                        +2
                        I will help and also sign. My age and experience gives me the right to speak. And there is nothing Soviet-style people to shut up their mouths! We say what we think. And you are only what is profitable. The Soviet are not only old people. They still show themselves so that the bandits do not seem enough.
                      10. Wolga
                        Wolga 15 August 2019 10: 42
                        +4
                        Dear, you forgot one small nuance, corruption money under the USSR remained in the country. Corruptionists of the USSR period were also limited to such an interesting detail in the Criminal Code, the punishment was prescribed - Confiscation of property, which the EBN immediately removed when it came to power. There is no such thing now.
                  2. cradle
                    cradle 15 August 2019 06: 09
                    -1
                    I will correct, after the Stalin era. Because the owner was in the country (they’ll start to distort) until 1953.
                3. Nyrobsky
                  Nyrobsky 14 August 2019 10: 52
                  +33
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  Blyin. Cotton business. Fishing business. Sochi-Krasnodar affair.
                  All this is nonsense. These cases, by today's standards, are somehow ridiculous, and even those, in fact, were opened by the same Soviet system. Now there is one, global business - the country was stolen along with fish, trees, land, production base and resources. Some colonels (not even ministers), senators with an eight-grade education, have 8-10 billion in cash at home. Only then for such theft it was possible to get a bullet in the forehead and lose everything acquired by "overwhelming" work, but now there is no confiscation, and the deputies are pushing amendments to the Criminal Code of the type - "I took it in due to insurmountable circumstances." "Scoop" may have given something in turn, but people did not climb the trash cans in search of food and did not sleep in heating mains, did not fall into debt slavery. They also built in micro-districts and handed out huts with the delivery of orders without any mortgages. People can buy cars for the most part on credit. And it seems like there is a car and a hut, but at the same time they are not there until you pay off the mortgage with a loan. Having lost your sources of income, get into a pose and wait for the bailiff or collector to come and kick you in the ass from the image of a "successful life-burner" into the image of a "terpily-homeless". Education and medicine were in the social package, and now they are more and more self-sufficient. If you want to be treated and study, pay. Have an opportunity to go to Thailand for exclusive worms? Go to Europe to see blacks and Arabs? Was it worth it to ruin the country? China did not break anything, and the Chinese are everywhere. Liberty? Censorship? What is your understanding of this? The man in the "scoop" was not limited by the framework - here you can fish and hunt, but here you can’t, here you can pick berries, but here you can’t most of the private territory. Freedom of speech))) well, well, get a law on insulting the authorities and responsibility for this. The departure from the "scoop" to liberalism led to the fact that more than 70 thousand villages and villages disappeared from the map of Russia. If during the "scoop" the population gave a stable increase, then under the liberals the opposite dynamics - the population is shrinking everywhere throughout the post-Soviet space. Measuring the past with TVs or sausage is silly, but it works. The problem is not in the political system, the problem is in power.
                  1. Flamberg
                    Flamberg 14 August 2019 11: 45
                    -24
                    All this nonsense. These affairs, by today's standards, are kind of ridiculous, and even those, in fact, were opened by the same Soviet system.
                    WHAT??? You will get acquainted, and then write about nonsense ...
                    Listen to you scoop right heavenly place. Only everything is free, in fact, not free, because it was done on taxes, and besides, not very high quality.
                    And they are homeless and climb on garbage cans, basically, people in the mind are damaged.
                    The villages disappeared due to being ineffective. Imagine that now 40-50 people are doing what the whole collective farm used to do under 1000 people.
                    1. Nyrobsky
                      Nyrobsky 14 August 2019 12: 45
                      +21
                      Quote: Flamberg
                      Listen to you scoop right heavenly place.

                      Well, not heavenly, of course, but there was definitely more truth, justice and order. There were also more opportunities to realize their potential, because everyone was guaranteed equal opportunities, and then, as they say, from each according to his ability. The system did not need to be destroyed. It was necessary to give an opportunity to develop competition between the private trader and the collective. China has taken this path and as a result of this reasonable "selection" has developed a very viable economic "hybrid", which is already strongly straining the "first economy in the world", that is, the United States, against which you are unlikely to have any counterarguments. Your trouble is that you reason with templates imposed by the nasty libertus, who fights against the legacy of the "scoop" presenting this period as darkness and a prison, deliberately obliterating what in the history of mankind has not yet been an example of how in just 70 years from the agrarian the country was created a superpower. Capitalism is spending frantic efforts to ensure that this historical example was forgotten, relying on people like you, who have lost the ability to find cause-and-effect relationships in historical events.
                      Quote: Flamberg
                      Only everything is free, in fact, not free, because it was done on taxes, and besides, not very high quality.

                      The refusal of the "scoop" led to the refusal to collect taxes? No. They collect the same, and even more. In addition, the line of taxes and fees has become much broader, only now the concept of "free" has disappeared from everyday life, and where they are invested, then "there is a great secret." Glorious achievement, delusional argument. In terms of quality, here it is generally "by", since the main infrastructure that is operated today was made precisely in the "scoop" and the margin of safety laid then, to this day, allows "thieves" not to invest in its development.
                      Quote: Flamberg
                      And they are homeless and climb on garbage cans, basically, people in the mind are damaged.
                      Whatever it was, but then the "scoop" was interested in the return of "mentally damaged" people to society and a normal society. Now more attention is paid to "stray animals", because the government is not interested in a person, because he "absorbs resources", while dogs and cats, on the contrary, allow "to seize these resources" in someone's favor and are silent at the same time.
                      Quote: Flamberg
                      The villages disappeared due to being ineffective.
                      The village and the village have always fed themselves and the surrounding area. Better ask the question - "Who made them ineffective"? The state of the "young reformers" first of all dispersed the collective and state farms, pilfering their land and property by shares, deliberately depriving the peasants of access to the means of production and to the land. And as you know - one in the field is not a warrior. In the second stage, schools, kindergartens, post offices, FAPs, cultural centers were destroyed in the countryside, after which the people fled from there. Again, this was done in order to clean up and open up the domestic market for agricultural products of "friends" from the West, to the detriment of its producer.
                      Quote: Flamberg
                      Imagine that now 40-50 people are doing what the whole collective farm used to do under 1000 people.
                      Well, so the time has passed a quarter century. Land cultivation technologies also do not stand still and are changing. At that time there were also collective farms millionaires. Now they have been replaced by agricultural holdings. With regard to the southern regions, this may be partly justified, but with respect to the rest of the periphery, the destruction of collective farms and state farms with the deprivation of the village of state support was deliberate, and therefore this can be called a crime.
                      1. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 14 August 2019 12: 59
                        -15
                        Well, not heavenly of course, but there was definitely more truth, justice and order. There were more opportunities to realize their potential, because everyone was guaranteed equal opportunities, and then, as they say from each, according to their abilities.
                        Whoever has a head on his shoulders, even with a scoop, and now he can get used to life.
                        In terms of quality, here it is generally "by", since the main infrastructure that is operated today was made precisely in the "scoop" and the margin of safety laid then, to this day, allows "thieves" not to invest in its development.
                        Yes, now they don’t give out apartments for free, but free education has not gone away, I’m an example. What infrastructure are you talking about? About Khrushchev? So there is nothing good in those houses.
                        The village and the village have always fed themselves and the surrounding area. Better ask the question - "Who made them ineffective"?
                        Technical progress. You do not need so many people employed in agriculture. From that, everything fell apart. Notice I’m living in a thoroughly agrarian Altai Territory, the villages are dying, and the fields have been cultivated and cultivated.
                        Well, so the time has passed a quarter century. Land cultivation technologies also do not stand still and are changing ...
                        Why maintain a hopeless direction?
                      2. Digital error
                        Digital error 14 August 2019 22: 02
                        +2
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        how in just 70 years a Superpower was created from an agricultural country

                        The only amendment is that the Super Power was created by the 1949 year (Victory in the War and possession of nuclear weapons), that is, for the 32 of the year, not the 70 of the years hi
                    2. tank64rus
                      tank64rus 14 August 2019 15: 14
                      +11
                      "And homeless people and trash cans climb, basically, people in their minds are damaged." This means that all the retirees in our minds are damaged, so what? You at least know the size of the pension, because it is 13-14 thousand, for 90% of pensioners. Give 40-50% of them to housing and communal services. Further that, only macaros with water. And enough to say that you don't know, but you get the impression that you are the former Minister of Social Security in Saratov.
                      1. free
                        free 15 August 2019 16: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: tank64rus
                        "And homeless people and trash cans climb, basically, people in their minds are damaged." This means that all the retirees in our minds are damaged, so what? You at least know the size of the pension, because it is 13-14 thousand, for 90% of pensioners. Give 40-50% of them to housing and communal services. Further that, only macaros with water. And enough to say that you don't know, but you get the impression that you are the former Minister of Social Security in Saratov.


                        There are eight thousand pensions, and there are many.
                    3. free
                      free 14 August 2019 21: 41
                      0
                      The villages disappeared due to being ineffective.
                      But now we chew overseas products very effectively.
                      1. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 04: 01
                        -2
                        Specifically, we have no foreign products in Altai. Excluding fruit.
                    4. nesvobodnaja
                      nesvobodnaja 16 August 2019 01: 14
                      0
                      In the late USSR it was impossible to see the beggars and vagrants on the streets in such numbers as they are now in the urban environment.
                  2. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 14 August 2019 14: 46
                    -1
                    Quote: Nyrobsky
                    These affairs, by today's standards, are kind of ridiculous, and even those, in fact, were opened by the same Soviet system.

                    The party and economic leaders of the whole republic were condemned on the "ridiculous case". And the strings that went above are carefully cut off.
                    The system of punishment is only for those who are in conflict with the ruling clan at the moment. Others continued to develop a parallel economy in their republics, having their own gesheft on this - because they were their own for the clan.
                    1. Nyrobsky
                      Nyrobsky 14 August 2019 16: 31
                      +8
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      The party and economic leaders of the whole republic were condemned on the "ridiculous case". And the strings that went above are carefully cut off.
                      The system of punishment is only for those who are in conflict with the ruling clan at the moment. Others continued to develop a parallel economy in their republics, having their own gesheft on this - because they were their own for the clan.
                      "Funny" is not because they are "comedic", but because they cannot be compared with the scale of theft that is now. Strictly speaking, the responsibility for the "thieves" of that time and the present is completely different. Then shooting (15 years) and confiscation. Now mostly suspended sentences and fines. There are exceptions in the person of Ulyukaev, but he suffered not for a bribe, but for greed, by virtue of habit, having kicked back from the wrong people. As for the "top of the republic" you mentioned, not so long ago (2013) the current head of the republic V. Gaizer + 19 people from his inner circle and the government + the former head V. Torlopov was arrested in the Komi Republic. This friendly team stole and offshore something within 10 billion rubles. Most of the defendants received sentences not for serving time, but for sitting out (some for several months), since the investigation was carried out for five years and being under investigation went into the general term. They didn't even have time to get scared. For anyone, the OBKSS system, which was working then, together with the CC of the USSR, worked more efficiently than the current OBEP with the CC of the Russian Federation.
                      1. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 14 August 2019 16: 34
                        -2
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        "Funny" is not because they are "comedic", but because they cannot be compared with the scale of theft that is now.

                        Sure?
                        - I conducted a planned economic examination in five years. Only for this period the minimum - I emphasize the minimum! - Cotton additives amounted to five million tons. Three billion rubles were paid for mythical raw materials from the state budget - that is, from our common, all citizens of the Soviet Union - money. Of these, 1,6 billion was spent on infrastructure that was being created in Uzbekistan: on roads, schools, hospitals, and 1,4 billion was a salary that no one received because no products were produced. In other words, at least 1,4 billion rubles were stolen at home in five years alone. This money was distributed in the form of bribes from top to bottom.
                        © Kalinichenko V.I., Investigator for Particularly Important Cases under the Prosecutor General of the USSR
                      2. Nyrobsky
                        Nyrobsky 14 August 2019 17: 01
                        +5
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Sure?

                        Ага. yes Take the annual capital flight, washing through offshores, cottages, there will be a trillion. Then the identification of large-scale theft caused a resonance and the whole country was on the ears (you still remember), but now it is a routine. The people, having learned about the next "financial feat" of a person from the government, will only spit, wave their hand in annoyance and go earn their ruble as best they can, so that they can pay taxes to the treasury, so that another official could attach them "correctly".
                      3. Digital error
                        Digital error 14 August 2019 23: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        so that another official could "correctly" attach them

                        And then himself, beloved Mintz, in London.
                        In the meantime, the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation proposes not to consider offenses cases of corruption that occurred due to “force majeure circumstances” as an offense ...
                  3. andrew42
                    andrew42 14 August 2019 18: 34
                    +5
                    Our country was stolen. It is a fact.
                4. New Year day
                  New Year day 14 August 2019 11: 20
                  +17
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  Blyin. Cotton business. Fishing business. Sochi-Krasnodar affair.

                  and all? How did it end? -Shot!
                  Now, just offhand ...



                  the data is old, some people are already over the hill, the rest are sawing and sawing
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 14 August 2019 14: 48
                    +1
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    and all? How did it end? -Shot!

                    But there was no need to conflict with Moscow. Here is the 1st secretary of the Krasnodar Territorial Committee of the CPSU, Comrade Medunov, who was conducting the Sochi-Krasnodar case, according to the results of the investigation, he was removed from the post of the 1st Secretary of the Regional Committee of the Party, removed from the Central Committee of the CPSU and ... was appointed deputy minister of fruit and vegetable production of the USSR. smile
                    What then, what now the system did not hand over its own. A little bit - and immediately the suspects were dragged out under the pretext of "unacceptable methods of conducting the investigation", "they knocked out testimony from the suspects", "the investigators themselves must be tried."
                    1. New Year day
                      New Year day 14 August 2019 15: 03
                      +2
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      What then, what now the system did not give up

                      I agree, but it is so nice when they destroy each other.
                      But Sledakov, even then and now, must be judged
                    2. free
                      free 14 August 2019 21: 45
                      -2
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      Quote: Silvestr
                      and all? How did it end? -Shot!

                      But there was no need to conflict with Moscow. Here is the 1st secretary of the Krasnodar Territorial Committee of the CPSU, Comrade Medunov, who was conducting the Sochi-Krasnodar case, according to the results of the investigation, he was removed from the post of the 1st Secretary of the Regional Committee of the Party, removed from the Central Committee of the CPSU and ... was appointed deputy minister of fruit and vegetable production of the USSR. smile
                      What then, what now the system did not hand over its own. A little bit - and immediately the suspects were dragged out under the pretext of "unacceptable methods of conducting the investigation", "they knocked out testimony from the suspects", "the investigators themselves must be tried."


                      The USSR of the 80s is no longer a socialist country. It is a shadow of socialism. Take for comparison the USSR of the times of Stalin.
                      1. nesvobodnaja
                        nesvobodnaja 16 August 2019 01: 20
                        +1
                        How much can you repeat about Stalin? This is already a distant Soviet period.
                      2. free
                        free 16 August 2019 06: 52
                        -1
                        Quote: nesvobodnaja
                        How much can you repeat about Stalin? This is already a distant Soviet period.

                        I explain. Compare the USSR with the Russian Federation, or in other words, socialism with capitalism. The modern Russian capitalism? Yes, in its purest form. The Soviet Union since the time of Brezhnev socialism? No, this is a country at the time of the transition from socialism to capitalism, there is an active process of restoring capital relations under support and participation of the very degenerating government. And was there a period of socialism? There was a Soviet Socialist Republic in the time of Stalin. Here and compare so that the comparison of socialism and capitalism is correct.
                      3. nesvobodnaja
                        nesvobodnaja 16 August 2019 10: 09
                        0
                        Who approved this ratio?
                        The time of Stalin is a difficult period when our country had to simultaneously fend off external enemies and grandly rebuild.
                        And the peace period regarding modern socialism with Khrushchev, perhaps, began. And with this period, right up to the perestroika perestroika, we must compare.
                      4. free
                        free 16 August 2019 20: 46
                        -1
                        Quote: nesvobodnaja
                        Who approved this ratio?
                        The time of Stalin is a difficult period when our country had to simultaneously fend off external enemies and grandly rebuild.
                        And the peace period regarding modern socialism with Khrushchev, perhaps, began. And with this period, right up to the perestroika perestroika, we must compare.


                        Then you and I need to determine what socialism is to find out whether it was in the "Khrushchev" USSR. So, what is socialism?
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                5. mark_rod
                  mark_rod 14 August 2019 12: 57
                  +14
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  Blyin. Cotton business. Fishing business. Sochi-Krasnodar affair. A generation or two will pass and people will learn to assert their rights.

                  Fine! You yourself have just confirmed that the fight against corruption in the USSR was real, and not on paper! Moreover, all corrupt officials were shot! Now what? To list the corrupt modernity who stole, sat under investigation and were released to calmly eat the stolen goods?
                6. naidas
                  naidas 14 August 2019 23: 00
                  -1
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  Cotton business. Fishing business. Sochi-Krasnodar affair

                  Childish pranks compared to privatization according to Chubais. And compare the punishment for damage.
                  Well, you can call a smaller case Vasilyeva, also compare the punishment.
                7. vlados
                  vlados 14 August 2019 23: 02
                  0
                  They do not read sensible articles on tape.ru and other sites. Give them only the "Star" and other heresy)
          2. astepanov
            astepanov 14 August 2019 09: 53
            +38
            I will add what the author bashfully kept silent:
            1) In the USSR there was free and high-quality education for everyone, in Russia - only for a few. If we add quite decent scholarships for students and, in fact, free hostels, the difference becomes enormous. For the most part, the current student is forced to earn extra money - in order to survive, and to pay bribes to teachers (because instead of studying, he earns, and because the university teacher is in the bulk of his beggars). The current average university graduate is not suited to his predecessor from the USSR - he is an ignoramus ..
            2) In the USSR, there was vertical mobility, and examples of this are darkness, in Russia it has been replaced by a show like the "Leaders of Russia" competition. Children of an ordinary family from the provinces cannot enter a university, even if they are seven spans in the forehead and a budgetary place is prepared for them: there is nothing to pay for housing, food, travel, textbooks. Children of the elite will study at Princetons and Harvards, and then immediately rise to the very top - as, for example, the child of Rogozin. And they wanted to spit on all these schools and competitions. Money and power are everything.
            3) Housing in the USSR was received, not bought, not all — but very many. The current young family buys in a mortgage, immediately becoming a beggar for the whole time in which they can still have at least a second child. Here is the main reason for the demographic pit: confidence in the inevitability of poverty.
            4). There was no mass drug addiction, mass prostitution in the USSR — despite the fact that there was no drug police either, the police and other security officials were insignificant compared to the current one. I think that in the USSR of those times, an HIV epidemic would also be impossible.
            5) The list goes on and on - but the main complaint to the author is incorrect comparisons. For example, if the current corruption were of the same scale as in the USSR, no one would have remembered about it.
            PS. Having gained a lot of new things (at the cost of enormous losses), we splashed out with dirty water and a lot of very good things, and now gentlemen like the author of the article are trying to keep quiet about this - is it really not to justify the authorities? But in vain.
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 14 August 2019 11: 04
              +21
              Housing in the USSR received
              ... In our town, 90% of apartment buildings were built at the expense of enterprises for their employees. Typically, these enterprises after the reforms have sunk into oblivion ...
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 14 August 2019 14: 14
                +11
                Quote: parusnik
                .. In our town 90% of apartment buildings were built at the expense of enterprises

                By the way, in the USSR there were housing cooperatives ... so, it was still possible to buy housing (and legally ...). Sailors, prospectors, polar explorers, geologists ... bought.
                1. Fayter2017
                  Fayter2017 14 August 2019 17: 31
                  +2
                  My dad went to Siberia from Kiev to earn money to pay a cooperative apartment as soon as possible.
                  1. vlados
                    vlados 14 August 2019 23: 18
                    0
                    And I have in Central Asia. Also from Kiev. Because it was faster to earn than to wait for a 3-year queue, living in a lousy communal apartment, where there are three families for one toilet)
                2. nesvobodnaja
                  nesvobodnaja 16 August 2019 01: 26
                  +1
                  Along with them, cooperative housing could be bought by many others: architects, artists, journalists, servicemen of various departments, scientists, engineers ...
                  Yes, anyone!
              2. free
                free 14 August 2019 21: 48
                +1
                Quote: parusnik
                Housing in the USSR received
                ... In our town, 90% of apartment buildings were built at the expense of enterprises for their employees. Typically, these enterprises after the reforms have sunk into oblivion ...


                In my city, the plant kept an entire district of the city of a millionaire for maintenance. Schools, hospitals, kindergartens, recreation centers, parks, clubs, a stadium, roads and etc. Now the plant is on the verge of bankruptcy, there are reductions.
            2. Harry.km
              Harry.km 14 August 2019 12: 10
              -6
              Quote: astepanov
              I will add what the author bashfully kept silent:
              1)

              2) ...
              3) ...
              4) ...
              5) ...
              PS. ...
              PPS And then the Union took and collapsed.
          3. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 14 August 2019 10: 43
            -13
            Svarog, Hunter, or whatever else you are. For such stubborn as you, Sylvester, and to give you a link to the article "Komsomolskaya Pravda", especially for your sect on the shelves painted on who will be the beneficiary of the protest movement. But the citizens of Russia because of people like you will go "into the furnace." https://www.stav.kp.ru/daily/27015/4077755/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com%2F%3Ffrom%3Dspecial&utm_source=YandexZenSpecial
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 14 August 2019 11: 22
              +13
              Quote: Okolotochny
              because of people like you will go "into the furnace".

              no one forbids having a head, one needs to think where and for whom to go.
            2. free
              free 14 August 2019 21: 50
              0
              Quote: Okolotochny
              Svarog, Hunter, or whatever else you are. For such stubborn as you, Sylvester, and to give you a link to the article "Komsomolskaya Pravda", especially for your sect on the shelves painted on who will be the beneficiary of the protest movement. But the citizens of Russia because of people like you will go "into the furnace." https://www.stav.kp.ru/daily/27015/4077755/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com%2F%3Ffrom%3Dspecial&utm_source=YandexZenSpecial


              You think superficially. Learn dialectics, study historical experience and much will be revealed to you.
              1. Russia
                Russia 15 August 2019 13: 44
                0
                Quote: free
                Quote: Okolotochny
                Svarog, Hunter, or whatever else you are. For such stubborn as you, Sylvester, and to give you a link to the article "Komsomolskaya Pravda", especially for your sect on the shelves painted on who will be the beneficiary of the protest movement. But the citizens of Russia because of people like you will go "into the furnace." https://www.stav.kp.ru/daily/27015/4077755/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com%2F%3Ffrom%3Dspecial&utm_source=YandexZenSpecial


                You think superficially. Learn dialectics, study historical experience and much will be revealed to you.

                Usually in such cases it is advised not to teach fathers all sorts of tricks. wink I realized that you have only a few vertices in your brains, and we knew the roots in due time, it hurts green to teach us these wisdom here. hi
                1. free
                  free 15 August 2019 17: 04
                  -3
                  Quote: Rusland
                  Quote: free
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  Svarog, Hunter, or whatever else you are. For such stubborn as you, Sylvester, and to give you a link to the article "Komsomolskaya Pravda", especially for your sect on the shelves painted on who will be the beneficiary of the protest movement. But the citizens of Russia because of people like you will go "into the furnace." https://www.stav.kp.ru/daily/27015/4077755/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com%2F%3Ffrom%3Dspecial&utm_source=YandexZenSpecial


                  You think superficially. Learn dialectics, study historical experience and much will be revealed to you.

                  Usually in such cases it is advised not to teach fathers all sorts of tricks. wink I realized that you have only a few vertices in your brains, and we knew the roots in due time, it hurts green to teach us these wisdom here. hi


                  In this case, I will be happy to learn and even apologize publicly to you, it’s not difficult for me. I should give the maestro all attention. Well, be brave.
                  1. Russia
                    Russia 18 August 2019 16: 52
                    +4
                    In vain, you are so widespread, in a certain way wink , you have already swallowed poison, Zyuganov will help you, flies like you should not land on the profaned, Westerners have already sat there, that's a shame for such "communards" who follow the helmsman and eat Putin's cutlets without flies, okstis or so and you will vote for Vedmedy Zyuganov. So I call your generation in the study of ML a window dressing, if you call old workers a maestro, in short such werewolves I crushed and crushed, hands off, as they say, go home to the hut, paid for. hi
                    1. free
                      free 19 August 2019 08: 42
                      -1
                      Quote: Rusland
                      In vain, you are so widespread, in a certain way wink , you have already swallowed poison, Zyuganov will help you, flies like you should not land on the profaned, Westerners have already sat there, that's a shame for such "communards" who follow the helmsman and eat Putin's cutlets without flies, okstis or so and you will vote for Vedmedy Zyuganov. So I call your generation in the study of ML a window dressing, if you call old workers a maestro, in short such werewolves I crushed and crushed, hands off, as they say, go home to the hut, paid for. hi


                      Well, maybe yes, I admit I'm wrong. I apologize.
                      and you will vote for Vedmedey Zyuganovsky
                      I am not with them in this you were mistaken.
                      as they say go home to the house, paid
                      It's not about me.
                      If you have something to teach, say. I will be grateful.
                      1. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 19 August 2019 09: 07
                        -2
                        Quote: free
                        If you have something to teach, say

                        There are cases in nature when to learn - only to spoil.

                        So, inspired wink
            3. nesvobodnaja
              nesvobodnaja 16 August 2019 01: 31
              0
              It's not about the protest movement, but about what most people and young people really feel, including.
        3. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 14 August 2019 11: 10
          +19
          Quote: Flamberg
          They also stole the scoop

          You are talking about that country in which you did not live, a citizen and a patriot will never call his homeland, as well as his mother.
          1. Flamberg
            Flamberg 15 August 2019 04: 05
            -9
            I was directly touched laughing My homeland is Russia, and the scoop is not the homeland, it is a political regime.
            1. nesvobodnaja
              nesvobodnaja 16 August 2019 01: 36
              +1
              "Scoop", maybe the regime.
              But socialism is a political system that, in essence, suits people more than sometimes in form. That’s all the main contradiction.
      2. Cottodraton
        Cottodraton 14 August 2019 06: 45
        +20
        What, figs "medveputy"? These are the same insolent local princes, mimicking today as "medveputs", and tomorrow according to the situation.
        It is only possible to reproach power with a softness that is excessive for this public. We have too much democracy, from that and the impudence of behavior - from the chantrap at meetings, to the jackets in the field.
        Replacing Petya for Vasya without a working social system is idiocy comparable to the events of 1991. Break it all again, and then, after 10 years, start over.
        1. cradle
          cradle 14 August 2019 07: 01
          +4
          wildly plus, here above the "comrade" wrote that they stole the pier ... I suppose he was tyril, and therefore in the courses. But you see, they drove away from the trough ... Abid !!! laughing
        2. Evil echo
          Evil echo 14 August 2019 07: 22
          0
          Plus is definitely.
        3. skif8013
          skif8013 14 August 2019 09: 51
          -1
          Quote: Cottodraton
          What, figs "medveputy"? These are the same insolent local princes, mimicking today as "medveputs", and tomorrow according to the situation.
          It is only possible to reproach power with a softness that is excessive for this public. We have too much democracy, from that and the impudence of behavior - from the chantrap at meetings, to the jackets in the field.
          Replacing Petya for Vasya without a working social system is idiocy comparable to the events of 1991. Break it all again, and then, after 10 years, start over.

          Well said, to the point I would say! Plus from me!
      3. grandson of Perun
        grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 13: 00
        +3
        In truth, in the 90s, when there were no "medveputs" yet, the country was destroyed and squandered on a much larger scale.
        1. Svetlana
          Svetlana 14 August 2019 19: 38
          0
          Quote: Perun's grandson
          In truth, in the 90s, when there were no "medveputs" yet, the country was destroyed and squandered on a much larger scale.

          So then for theft there were other scales.
    3. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ 14 August 2019 07: 10
      +23
      Quote: Flamberg
      There was no one to tell about the shoals of those in power.

      That is how it is, however, human memory is such a thing that only the best is remembered. You can understand people, although they did not go to Turkey and Egypt, and they did not buy color TVs every three years (how the loan for the previous one will be repaid), but people remember the doors that were locked only at night, the greater safety of children than now, and, no matter how funny, real sausage, pride in the country. As one song says: "Today, in short supply, sincere smiles, pride in the heart, and love for the Motherland." Here I myself sometimes "dog" with the "new reds" about good or bad, but when I look at old Soviet photographs of cities and people I catch myself thinking - "what country was destroyed, you bastard ..."
      1. Flamberg
        Flamberg 14 August 2019 07: 26
        -36
        Cheap sausage, a communal apartment, public transport - this is what happiness is ...
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 14 August 2019 08: 45
          -8
          Quote: Flamberg
          Cheap sausage, communal, public transport

          I remember an article in the literature about its production: how rats ran around the edge of the industrial meat grinder, some fell there, turning into natural minced meat ...

          Yes, and buy it: in the early 1980s, stood in line in Kuibyshev to buy it, by coupons. It was wild, because in Ukraine, Moldova this was not

          Komunalka, yes, it was free, but the apartment was not yours.

          Public transport: who remembers, "ramming" at rush hour: at a decent pace, the troll braked sharply, compacting the mass of people in order to finally close the doors ...

          But in general, the Brezhnev period was not bad for people- against the background of previous rulers: people could at least breathe, eat and live.

          I also remember the humiliating poverty in Russia, against the background of Moldova, Ukraine, the Baltic states living at HER ACCOUNT ...

          But the grass, yes, was greener, the trees are bigger and the whole life is yet to come ....
          1. Flamberg
            Flamberg 14 August 2019 08: 55
            -12
            Thanks for the sane comment. hi I asked my mother born in 1964 how did you live in the ussr good / bad? She says they lived poorly, but no matter how it was striking, everyone lived like that. She said that meatless soup was the norm. Perhaps who lived in big cities, those were different. But I come from a provincial Siberian town with 30 thousand inhabitants.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 14 August 2019 09: 25
              -6
              Quote: Flamberg
              I asked my mother born in 1964 how did you live in the ussr good / bad? She says they lived poorly, but no matter how it was striking, everyone lived like that. She said that meatless soup was the norm.

              I’m older than your mother and much: I also found Khrushchev ... Did they live well or bad?

              They believed that they lived well: there was nothing to compare with, except with terrible past times, and against their background, it turned out well.

              Russia lived much poorer than the "sisters": I remember a faded, torn red rag over the regional office in Temkino, Smolensk Region: only by looking closely, one could guess the "flag" of the RSFSR.

              I remember the kerosene in the hut, and there was still a trace of electricity in the village near Gagarin’s homeland , near Moscow - early 60s, no gas, no roads, no first-aid post, NOTHING. You’ll come out in the evening and it’s not clear: either the 20th century, or 16-th. Where was this other than Russia?

              But the grandfather was pleased: there was no war, they began to give at least some money for work, they managed to save all the children from the collective farm in the city, they brought him the newspaper Zarya ...
              1. Old Michael
                Old Michael 14 August 2019 09: 35
                +14
                against their background, it turned out well.

                This is not the only point.
                Yes, they lived, to put it mildly, not richly. But poverty is not poverty! In addition, there were well-founded hopes for a better future, if not for myself, even for children. And indeed, before stagnation, life gradually improved (for those who plowed, not plumped). And they gave housing, and social elevators worked.
                And yet, we were damn young, and already that - happy!
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 14 August 2019 09: 39
                  0
                  Quote: OldMichael
                  And yet, we were damn young, and already that - happy!

                  Yes, and that was the most important RICH in life, as later realized hi
                2. astepanov
                  astepanov 14 August 2019 17: 38
                  +1
                  Quote: OldMichael
                  In addition, there were well-founded hopes for a better future, if not for myself.

                  This is very accurate. Any sharp social movements are primarily associated with mass disappointment and loss of hope. This happened in 1917, the same happened under Gorbachev. We now live much better than in the nineties. Incomparably better. But the pace of the movement has fallen, promises turn into duty spells, hopes fade - and begins to smell of blood and gunpowder. And this is sad, because it can fully affect our children. God grant that I was wrong.
              2. Flamberg
                Flamberg 14 August 2019 09: 45
                0
                Thanks again smile . Now it’s very difficult to reveal an unbiased opinion on the network. Some shout that in the USSR there was nothing but bursts and you won’t find a normal sausage during the day with fire, while others ate an excellent sausage from the belly. And the truth is somewhere in between.
                1. Old Michael
                  Old Michael 14 August 2019 10: 41
                  +6
                  the truth is she is somewhere in the middle

                  Everyone sees what they are in contact with. Only having matured, you understand that life is wider than your horizons.
                  So in the 60s, very different processes developed simultaneously. On the one hand - the thaw, the sixties, rapid scientific and technological progress, disputes between "physicists" and "lyricists". On the other hand, the filling of leading and party posts by grown-up children of the nomenklatura, unprincipled and uneducated, whom physicists and lyricists missed. Hence the bureaucratization of everything and everyone, from industry and science to literature and pop music, with an emphasis on reporting, and not on the actual result, followed by a steep peak of the national economy.
                2. New Year day
                  New Year day 14 August 2019 11: 26
                  +2
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  And the truth is somewhere in between.

                  at last!
              3. Edward Vashchenko
                Edward Vashchenko 14 August 2019 11: 16
                +7
                near Moscow, the beginning of the 60's, no gas, no roads, no first-aid post, NOTHING. In the evening you will leave and it is not clear: either the 20 century, or the 16.

                I didn’t want to argue with you, write - that’s all right, but you forget that the most terrible war in the history of Russia just recently passed, according to conservative estimates, like a cow, tongue licked 5 of five-year plans - 25 years + plus the whole European part in ruins: neither cities, nor factories nor sat down.
                I myself come from Crimea, of course I didn’t live in 60, but the city was completely destroyed, how many such cities are there in the country?
                PS just don’t write, and who is to blame for this ?, the war was of civilizations: or or, before that this did not happen to Russia, perhaps from the beginning of the eighteenth century, when Karl could only dream of defeating Russia.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 14 August 2019 11: 39
                  +3
                  Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                  I didn’t want to argue with you, write - everything is right, but you forget that just recently passed the worst war in the history of Russia

                  Dear Zduard, the terrible war took place NOT ONLY in Russia, but also in Moldova, Ukraine, the Baltic states. Chisinau was destroyed by 80% ....

                  So in the early 60s there was no one in their thoughts that one could live without electricity, roads, gas, radio: all or created from scratch (power plants, highways, factories, etc.) or everything is restored (which is heavier than new).

                  But in the center of Russia, near Moscow almost, time has stopped, I repeat: it is not clear in the evening in the village, or the 20th century, or 16.......

                  The attitude was different towards the "sisters" ......

                  I speak of what I saw and compared personally, being both there and there. It was bitter and insulting for my relatives, why there- SO, and in Russia, so ..... I thought even, in infancy, maybe in Russia they work worse? Then everything fell into place .....

                  I believe that such a different attitude was absolutely wrong.
                  1. Edward Vashchenko
                    Edward Vashchenko 14 August 2019 15: 34
                    +1
                    I believe that such a different attitude was absolutely wrong.

                    It's hard not to agree.
                    In Crimea, few people remembered Khrushchev with a kind word, and the "light" press of Ukrainization was felt even in Soviet times, which was the cost of full shelves of books in short supply, such as "17 Moments of Spring".
                    But these were not system errors, all this could be fixed!
              4. New Year day
                New Year day 14 August 2019 11: 25
                +7
                Quote: Olgovich
                They believed that they lived well: there was nothing to compare with, except with terrible past times, and against their background, it turned out well.

                and most importantly, there was confidence in the future! If your head is cooking, you can go to a university, if you want money, go to the North and NOBODY will throw you there.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 14 August 2019 11: 47
                  +2
                  Quote: Silvestr
                  If your head is cooking, you can go to a university, if you want money, go to the North and.

                  Yes, it was.

                  One remark, for a university it was enough to have not only a head, but a nationality: I remember my wild amazement when, after a serious competition (for me) at a university, at the first lecture on a higher mother, the national academy showed difficulties in um ... arithmetic. ...
                  1. New Year day
                    New Year day 14 August 2019 12: 57
                    +1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    not only with my head, but with my nationality: I remember my wild amazement when, after a serious (for me) competition at a university, at the first lecture on higher mathematics, the national academy showed difficulties in um, arithmetic ....

                    I did not find this. We practically had no national personnel. Mostly africa
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 14 August 2019 13: 22
                      +1
                      Quote: Silvestr
                      I did not find this.

                      In the national republics this was ....

                      There was even this: while submitting documents to the university, I saw a sign: "Admission of documents to Moscow universities."
                      Let me think I’ll come!
                      -
                      -Hello!
                      Hello, do you want to spend trat-ta at the university?
                      Yes.
                      You are welcome! Give me the documents.
                      Please.
                      belay So you .......- Russian ?!
                      Yes
                      Sorry, only for indigenous nationality .....

                      Came out dumbfounded ..... belay recourse
                      1. New Year day
                        New Year day 14 August 2019 13: 36
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Sorry, only for indigenous nationality ....

                        Yeah! Now in a different way. Recently, an employee with her daughter passed documents to the university. Wait, after all. So there is an ocean with 100 points. And the girl with 84 points went for a fee.
            2. WIKI
              WIKI 14 August 2019 11: 23
              +3
              Quote: Flamberg
              Cheap sausage, a communal apartment, public transport - this is what happiness is ...

              Quote: Flamberg
              She says they lived poorly, but no matter how it was striking, everyone lived like that. She said that meatless soup was the norm.

              You do not find yourself contradicting yourself?
              1. Flamberg
                Flamberg 14 August 2019 12: 26
                -5
                No. Cheap and good sausage still had to be found. Do you know trains with the smell of sausages and coupons in the early 80s did not appear out of the blue.
                1. grandson of Perun
                  grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 13: 21
                  +6
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  coupons in the early 80s out of the blue appeared

                  Too much with anti-Soviet propaganda stop In the early 80s under Brezhnev, there were no coupons.
                  Coupons appeared after Gorbachev's "perestroika" in the late 80s.
                  And the deficits were largely created artificially. After the "Pavlovian reform" all deficits "suddenly" appeared in abundance on store shelves.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 14 August 2019 14: 00
                    -2
                    Quote: Perun's grandson
                    In the early 80s under Brezhnev, there were no coupons.

                    Kuibyshev, 1981-82
                    1. grandson of Perun
                      grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 14: 11
                      +5
                      I just lived in the Kuibyshev region at that time. I don’t remember any coupons.
                      Maybe you mean "coupons" for scarce products like salami that were given to veterans?
                      PS: although Flamberg did not believe it, but in the USSR there was even salami on sale, although it was not enough and everyone was not enough.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 14 August 2019 15: 23
                        -1
                        Quote: Perun's grandson
                        I just lived in the Kuibyshev region at that time. I don’t remember any coupons.
                        Maybe you mean "coupons" for scarce products like salami that were given to veterans?

                        My girlfriend lived there, I flew to visit her at 81-82, in the winter we stood together in line for sausage on coupons. It was wild for me, because we didn’t have this, so I remembered ...
                  2. Flamberg
                    Flamberg 14 August 2019 14: 48
                    -1
                    Were in individual cities. All information is google without problems.
                    1. grandson of Perun
                      grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 15: 00
                      +5
                      Quote: Flamberg
                      Were in individual cities. All information is google without problems.

                      Already in only a few cities. Earlier you wrote about the entire USSR.
                      I can also write about several cities with the first category of support such as Baikonur, where everything was in stores and there were no coupons.
                      The coupons of the second half of the 80s are googled. That is, the times of Gorbachev's "perestroika", as I wrote earlier.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 14 August 2019 15: 31
                        -2
                        Quote: Perun's grandson
                        Already in only a few cities. Earlier you wrote about the entire USSR.

                        There wasn’t everything and nobody wrote it_ in Moldova there wasn’t, Ukraine, the Baltic states, etc. there wasn’t.

                        BUT: https://bash-m-ak.livejournal.com/7663.html It has long been collecting dates when coupons were introduced in different cities of the RSFSR. In order not to get lost, I'll throw it here. Dates do not mean that it was this year that coupons were introduced. They mean that this year there were already coupons and this is reflected in any diary entries.

                        Volzhsk 1975
                        Volgograd 1979
                        Ekaterinburg 1980
                        Novosibirsk 1981
                        Nizhnevartovsk 1981
                        Kazan 1981
                        Chelyabinsk 1982
                        Vologda 1982
                        Samara 1983
                        Omsk 1984
                      2. grandson of Perun
                        grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 16: 34
                        +4
                        1. Then there were no cities with the names "Yekaterinburg" and "Samara". But this is by the way.
                        2. Relatives, unlike me, very often visited Kuibyshev and do not remember any coupons in 1983.
                        3. Coupons vouchers differ. For example, there could be departmental coupons for which they were sold not to any passerby in URS stores, but only to employees of the enterprise.
                        Also, as I wrote earlier, deficit coupons were issued to veterans.
                        4. Please note: all listed cities in the RSFSR. In the republics with the supply was a complete order.
                        5. Most importantly: the subject of the dispute is not clear. The fact of coupons in the USSR is presented by Russophobes as supposedly hunger, poverty and absolutely empty shelves in stores (we do not consider the period of artificial shortages in "perestroika"). But there was no hunger or poverty. There was a kind of logistics.
                      3. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 04: 09
                        +1
                        Nobody talks about hunger. It’s just that in the country the first person to send into space had to go to a neighboring city for sausage, excuse me for shame. From that, they also introduced coupons because the newcomers had scrapped the shortage from the shelves.
                      4. grandson of Perun
                        grandson of Perun 15 August 2019 09: 41
                        +2
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        in the country the first person to send into space had to go to a neighboring city for sausage, excuse me shame
                        Shame for what? For the country that first sent man into space (and not only)?
                        Or shame for officials who deliberately distributed sausage (and not only) between the republics is not fair to their contribution to the country's economy?
                        Or, besides the RSFSR, there were also "sausage trains" in other republics?
                      5. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 16 August 2019 04: 23
                        -1
                        Do not look for the extreme. The system itself was rotten.
                      6. grandson of Perun
                        grandson of Perun 16 August 2019 14: 52
                        +1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        The system itself was rotten

                        It is not necessary to push the slogans of the mind.
                        And you can substantiate what the "rotten" system was, in many ways ahead of the West?
                        Ahead in social justice (social elevators and free education / medicine / housing ...), science and technology (ALL space records are ours until NASA proves its "flights to the moon), the economy (the rapid restoration of not only their country, but also of the socialist neighbors after a devastating war).
                        Or will all your justification of the "rottenness" of the system, which in many respects outstrip the West, will again be reduced to delusional talk about coupons and sausage?

                        PS: by the way, the creation of economic difficulties in the early 80s was a project of the USA, as a result of which the USSR had to pay a multi-billion dollar loan + interest for Poland.
                        The "rotten" USSR helped the allies at its own expense (how Poland repaid is another matter). But the "delightful" West lives all the way by robbing others.
                      7. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 17 August 2019 05: 39
                        -2
                        It is not necessary to push the slogans of the mind.

                        laughing laughing laughing
                        Ahead of social justice (social elevators and free education / medicine / housing ...)
                        There is nothing free. It has been said a thousand times. The state simply did not pay extra money to people.
                        science and technology (ALL space records are ours until NASA proves its "flights to the moon), economy (rapid recovery not only of our country, but also of our socialist neighbors after a devastating war).
                        laughing laughing laughing In addition to space and defense, there are no achievements. NOT AT ALL. Only copying western obsolete designs. From cameras to washing machines. The Americans on the moon were not in doubt even in the USSR. Read Leonov’s interview in the end. In general, there are images from space of Apollo missions on the moon.
                        Or will all your justification of the "rottenness" of the system, which in many respects outstrip the West, will again be reduced to delusional talk about coupons and sausage?
                        Coupons were under Brezhnev is a fact. The sausage was far from such what fairy tales like you tell, I quoted quotes from the guest on the replacement of meat with flour)))
                        PS: by the way, the creation of economic difficulties in the early 80s was a project of the USA, as a result of which the USSR had to pay a multi-billion dollar loan + interest for Poland.
                        The "rotten" USSR helped the allies at its own expense (how Poland repaid is another matter).
                        Yes Yes. This is not a scoop outfitted, this insidious west Kakahi put in his pants. laughing laughing laughing
                        But the "delightful" West lives all the way by robbing others.

                        But the scoop lived robbing its own citizens. Your much-vaunted free housing according to UN SLUMES. And the party nomenclature, telling tales of EQUALITY AND JUSTICE for all, was brewed in separate stores, treated in separate clinics, etc. etc.
                        In a word, a false state, except for slogans, was nothing. All the achievements of people do not relate from the word at all.

                        PS "It is not necessary to push the slogans of the mind." And banged me soviet slogans laughing
                2. WIKI
                  WIKI 14 August 2019 13: 59
                  0
                  In your opinion, it turns out that cheap sausage is bad, and will not help those who have soup without meat.
                3. Gardamir
                  Gardamir 14 August 2019 16: 41
                  +4
                  Cheap and good sausage still had to be found.
                  Do you like a rubber cupcake? I think yes! Because now in stores imitation of sausage, jeans. And the vaunted #vods they are not even ours. Gathering the bourgeoisie will take their plants ...
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 14 August 2019 16: 50
                    -2
                    Quote: Gardamir
                    now in stores imitation sausages, jeans

                    Well, sausages - okay, let it be an imitation ... jeans are something that did not please you? wink

                    Quote: Gardamir
                    Gathering the bourgeoisie will take their plants ...

                    Really with cars? belay

                    And, yes - explain how it is - "take the plant"? It certainly won't fit into your pocket ...
                    1. Gardamir
                      Gardamir 14 August 2019 17: 10
                      +2
                      What jeans didn’t please you?
                      In 86 I bought jeans from Germany - 100 rubles and Indian for 70. They were sold in government stores. So if you want jeans, they probably cost about a hundred thousand. And all that is less imitation.
                      Wait Ford is leaving Russia, it looks like he’ll put a car in his pocket.
                      1. hammerite
                        hammerite 14 August 2019 18: 39
                        0
                        For 20 tyr. You can buy normal blue pants now ...
                      2. cradle
                        cradle 15 August 2019 07: 18
                        0
                        repurpose the plant
                    2. Wolga
                      Wolga 15 August 2019 11: 02
                      +1
                      And what has not yet been taken? Closing production, dismissal of workers, dismantling and (removal) or disposal of assembly lines? Is this not enough?
                  2. Flamberg
                    Flamberg 15 August 2019 04: 13
                    -4
                    Because now in stores imitation sausages

                    Only in your fantasies. In soviet guests, a wide substitution of meat with various offal was allowed.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 15 August 2019 05: 26
                      +4
                      Quote: Flamberg
                      In soviet guests, a wide substitution of meat with various offal was allowed.

                      Have you even read Soviet GOSTs? First read, compare with modern ones, and then write. Infa available, those GOSTs were much tougher than modern ones. I compared, and therefore I know what I am writing about. And you and your mother should be grateful to the so contemptuous "scoop" you and your mother, for the fact that she was provided with free housing in twenty-something years. He would have fallen apart seven years earlier, and they would have cuckoo with a toilet on the street. What did mom work for? As for meat, my grandfather kept pigs and chickens on my father's side, and goats on my mother's. And there was meat and milk. And then over there, one figure was crying about the lack of meat, living in the village, but he himself constantly rolled around the Crimea and Bulgaria. He preferred to buy imported pants instead of meat, but my maternal grandfather constantly bought chicken in the market. You are here broadcasting from the stories of your mother, but other USSR well remember.
                      1. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 05: 43
                        -3
                        Have you ever read Soviet GOSTs?

                        Compare but not to the end.
                        He would have fallen apart seven years earlier, and would have cooked with a need in the street.
                        This is what a fright?
                        You are here according to your mother’s stories broadcasting, but other USSR remember well.

                        And what do you measure all of yourself? Do you think if you had no problems and you just had enough, then it was like that everywhere? Adequate people, unlike you, say that it was different ...
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 15 August 2019 05: 57
                        +2
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Compare but not to the end.

                        Until the end, this topic has surfaced more than once.
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        This is what a fright?

                        And you tell me who your mother worked for, in which area, I will answer with a probability of 80-90 percent.
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Think if you had no problems

                        Didn’t we have it? There were, and worse than your mom.
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Adequate people, unlike you, say that it was different ...

                        Am I arguing with that? Yes, in different ways. I do not like how you contemptuously call our Motherland, for which my grandfathers fought with the contemptuous word "scoop". I can compare the late USSR with today's capitalism, and my comparison is in favor of the USSR. Yes, you contradict yourself here. Half-sprouting for six months and soup without meat? Did the cat eat everything? Here is a bastard, ate a five-year-old child. laughing
                      3. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 06: 27
                        -3
                        Until the end, this topic has surfaced more than once.

                        Well, as it surfaced and floated along the way.
                        And you tell me who your mother worked for, in which area, I will answer with a probability of 80-90 percent.
                        accountant, father is a driver. But she is not just an accountant, she is a very good accountant.
                        I don’t like the way you contemptuously call our homeland,
                        Russia is my homeland.
                        Yes, you yourself contradict yourself. Half a year and soup without meat? Did the cat eat everything up?
                        Do not believe? So your pink glasses are your problems.
                        I can compare the late USSR with today's capitalism, and my comparison is in favor of the USSR
                        It is necessary to compare the scoop with the ideological enemies of that time, and not with the current Russia, in which all the thieves, almost 99%, consist of former commies who used to sit in different executive committees.
                      4. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 15 August 2019 06: 42
                        +1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Well, as it surfaced and floated along the way.

                        Everything is clear with you, you have not read GOSTs, or simply do not want to admit that you are simply deceiving.
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        accountant, father is a driver. But she is not just an accountant, she is a very good accountant.

                        This is not an answer. Where they gave her a house, what kind of collective farm state farm is this?
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Russia is my homeland.

                        Cleverly distorted. And the "scoop" where your mother was born and received all the benefits, becoming a "good accountant" - a side, then.
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        You need to compare the scoop with the ideological enemies of the time,

                        And the comparison is not in their favor. However, consumers of the Pepsi generation are unlikely to understand.
                      5. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 06: 53
                        -3
                        Everything is clear with you, you have not read the state standards, or simply do not want to admit that you are simply deceiving.

                        here's a quote from the post below.
                        Well, I also remember products from the USSR. And they were different. I don't know what the Ostankino dumplings were made of, but they could only be eaten out of hunger. And the sausage is also different - they bought for 2.20 only because of lack of money, tried to find it for 2.90. But the top had other products. It was not for nothing that there was a "Mikoyan" workshop. We knew people who received rations with such a sausage - it tastes completely different! And the sausages are the same.

                        This is not an answer. Where they gave her a house, what kind of collective farm state farm is this?
                        And what answer do you need? Full name address?
                        Cleverly distorted. And the "scoop" where your mother was born and received all the benefits, becoming a "good accountant" - a side, then.
                        Basic opportunities for education, work, medicine is not a great merit of the scoop. Scoop is a mode with good ideas and bad execution.
                        And the comparison is not in their favor. However, consumers of the Pepsi generation are unlikely to understand.
                        Ahaha ... And then what was the scoop under total censorship and all the voices of America jammed? They were probably afraid that people would find out how bad they were in the West and would be very upset. laughing laughing laughing
                      6. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 15 August 2019 07: 17
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        And the sausage is also different - they bought for 2.20 only because of lack of money, tried to find it for 2.90. But the top had other products. It was not for nothing that there was a "Mikoyan" shop. We knew who received rations with such a sausage - it tastes completely different! And the sausages are the same.

                        And I will tell you that this is a complete lie, sausages from an ordinary store in the USSR were many times better than now. But for some reason you do not believe me, but to the one who wrote below.
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        And what answer do you need? Full name address?

                        Name with address is not necessary. I’m just wondering what kind of organization this is, where bookkeepers of the 25 age were handed out at home.
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Basic opportunities for education, work, medicine is not a great merit of the scoop.

                        Yeah, western chewing gum is much tastier in your opinion.
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        And then what was the scoop under total censorship and all the voices of America jammed? They were probably afraid that people would find out how bad they were in the West and would be very upset.

                        Personally, against jamming. And what could we hear there? Seva Novgorodtseva with his rock crops? Nonsense.
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        scoop

                        Not tired of pecking the same thing? Orevoire, you can not answer.
                      7. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 07: 27
                        -2
                        And I will tell you that this is a complete lie, sausages from an ordinary store in the USSR were many times better than now. But for some reason you do not believe me, but to the one who wrote below.

                        Quote from your favorite GOST 23670-79 (GOST does not apply in the Russian Federation). Cooked sausages, sausages and sausages, meat breads. Specifications (as Amended by N 1-6)
                        Instead of beef, pork, lamb, it is allowed to use the joint protein stabilizer, beef or pork meat mass, or mutton, food plasma (serum) of blood, starch or wheat flour.

                        2.6. It is allowed to use when making boiled sausages, sausages, sausages and meat loaves:
                        food phosphates in an amount of 0,3% by weight of raw materials (in terms of anhydrous);
                        sodium ascorbate or ascorbic acid in an amount of 50 g per 100 kg of raw material;
                        smoking preparations authorized by the USSR Ministry of Health;


                        Name with address is not necessary. I’m just wondering what kind of organization this is, where bookkeepers of the 25 age were handed out at home.

                        Rosgosstrakh
                        Yeah, western chewing gum is much tastier in your opinion.

                        This is generally no comment ...
                        Personally, against jamming. And what could we hear there? Seva Novgorodtseva with his rock crops? Nonsense.
                        There you could hear an alternative opinion to the party.
                        Not tired of pecking the same thing? Orevoire, you can not answer.
                        Are you merging again? You show insufficient will and firmness in protecting your ideals ... laughing laughing laughing
                      8. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 15 August 2019 07: 47
                        +3
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Quote from your favorite GOST 23670-79 (GOST does not apply in the Russian Federation).

                        Where is the comparison then? Do you even know what a percentage is, the son of an accountant? phosphates in the amount of 0,3%, or 50 grams of ascorbine per 100 kg of meat? Ask your mom. And compare with modern standards. Thoughtfully. feel
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Rosgosstrakh

                        Oh, you don’t even know that there was no such office in the USSR.
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        There you could hear an alternative opinion to the party.

                        Have you heard him? When the USSR collapsed, you still walked under the table. Alternative... laughing
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Are you merging again? You show insufficient will and firmness in protecting your ideals ...

                        I already have 48 comments on this thread, stupidly tired of such personalities as you answer, and the laptop starts to slow down. So come on.
                      9. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 08: 09
                        -3
                        de comparison then? Do you even know what a percentage is, the son of an accountant? phosphates in the amount of 0,3%, or 50 grams of ascorbine per 100 kg of meat? Ask your mom. And compare with modern standards. Thoughtfully.
                        Did you notice this immediately, but did you notice the replacement of meat with flour ?? Sausage is different now, as in the scoop there is both good and bad.
                        Oh, you don’t even know that there was no such office in the USSR.
                        Rosgosstrakh is the successor to Gosstrakh.
                        Have you heard him? When the USSR collapsed, you still walked under the table. Alternative ... laughing

                        Nothing to justify censorship? Are you rolling into demagoguery? And the authorities were afraid to tell people the truth, more and more tales about the five-year plan were told in three years ...
                        I already have 48 comments on this thread, stupidly tired of such personalities as you answer, and the laptop starts to slow down. So come on.
                        So you say constructively do not project your personal fate on the whole union. If I don’t completely believe you, then your opinion is still taken into account. And I do this because you tend to minimize the shortcomings of the union, and on the contrary, exaggerate the virtues. Why is it that rare people are able to tell without scolding and not praising the union ...
                      10. free
                        free 17 August 2019 17: 58
                        -1
                        So are you actually against the idea (communism) or do you not like the performance?
                      11. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 18 August 2019 17: 31
                        0
                        The ideas of both the Communists and the Democrats are good. But as you know - it was smooth on paper, but forgot about the ravines. The Communists in general managed to do it when they were fully implemented and naturally found themselves in the dustbin of history.
                      12. free
                        free 19 August 2019 08: 46
                        -1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        The ideas of both the Communists and the Democrats are good. But as you know - it was smooth on paper, but forgot about the ravines. The Communists in general managed to do it when they were fully implemented and naturally found themselves in the dustbin of history.


                        I would not be so categorical.
                        What is your reason for the collapse of the USSR?
                      13. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 19 August 2019 09: 20
                        0
                        Not a reason, a complex of reasons. Who will list them all now? The first alarming calls in the union began by the beginning of the 80s, and there is an opinion that Gorbachev trying to resolve this growing crisis ruined everything to hell.
                        PS Yes, judge for yourself how so ??? The first satellite / man in space / first station !!! And people are running after Finnish boots, GDR sneakers, and imported jeans. But in these simple things there is simple human happiness, not in the achievements of the cosmos, for which we were naturally proud, but which you cannot put on your legs and spread bread ...
                      14. free
                        free 19 August 2019 09: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Not a reason, a complex of reasons. Who will list them all now? The first alarming calls in the union began by the beginning of the 80s, and there is an opinion that Gorbachev trying to resolve this growing crisis ruined everything to hell.
                        PS Yes, judge for yourself how so ??? The first satellite / man in space / first station !!! And people are running after Finnish boots, GDR sneakers, and imported jeans. But in these simple things there is simple human happiness, not in the achievements of the cosmos, for which we were naturally proud, but which you cannot put on your legs and spread bread ...


                        I agree, but the question is why this happened? Why did people run after jeans, chewing gum and Finnish boots? And why wasn’t that their own? In your opinion?
                      15. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 19 August 2019 09: 47
                        -1
                        Quote: free
                        And why was this not your own? In your opinion?

                        Boy, are you capable of asking military questions except for anything else?

                        It’s just become interesting request
                      16. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 19 August 2019 10: 25
                        0
                        Are you trying to trap me in your own reasoning? BUT I will answer you.
                        Lack of competition and leveling. Why should an engineer with a higher education try if if some kind of vocational-technical school staff gets almost twice as much behind a machine? Do you know it’s probably insulting when you puffed from school, studied, tried, and some conditional bucket Vasya, picking his nose from the school bench, coming to the factory has more of you ... Is that the same Soviet justice? The lack of competition allowed you to do anything, people still buy, they have no choice. From this, the Western goods produced in the competition won in consumer qualities, not to mention the goods that the union did not produce at all or did not produce in sufficient quantities.
                        And why was this not your own? In your opinion?

                        How should I know. Maybe the funds after the military-industrial complex / space / help to all kinds of bananos were not enough for their people, or maybe some bureaucratic thought that "Soviet people do not need it"and so it goes.
                      17. free
                        free 19 August 2019 11: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Are you trying to trap me in your own reasoning? BUT I will answer you.
                        Lack of competition and leveling. Why should an engineer with a higher education try if if some kind of vocational-technical school staff gets almost twice as much behind a machine? Do you know it’s probably insulting when you puffed from school, studied, tried, and some conditional bucket Vasya, picking his nose from the school bench, coming to the factory has more of you ... Is that the same Soviet justice? The lack of competition allowed you to do anything, people still buy, they have no choice. From this, the Western goods produced in the competition won in consumer qualities, not to mention the goods that the union did not produce at all or did not produce in sufficient quantities.
                        And why was this not your own? In your opinion?

                        How should I know. Maybe the funds after the military-industrial complex / space / help to all kinds of bananos were not enough for their people, or maybe some bureaucratic thought that "Soviet people do not need it"and so it goes.


                        Are you trying to trap me in your own reasoning?
                        There wasn’t even such a thought.
                        egalitarianism, Is this the same Soviet justice?
                        Is it Soviet?
                        I.V. Stalin repeatedly pointed out that egalitarianism has nothing to do with Marxism-Leninism. Marxism-Leninism means equality under socialism, says Stalin, not equalization in the field of personal needs and life, but equal liberation of all working people from exploitation, equal abolition for all of private ownership of the means of production, equal obligation for all to work according to their abilities and equal right to receive for this according to work. Socialism excludes equalization in wages, making wages dependent on the results of labor — its productivity, qualifications, and social significance.
                        Note that this is what Stalin says. The time that most condemning the Union is talking about is the time of Khrushchev and Brezhnev. The Khrushchev and Brezhnev USSR are no longer socialism, this is a country in which there are elements of socialism, but there is no socialism itself!
                        The lack of competition allowed you to do anything, people still buy, they have no choice.
                        Not the lack of competition, but the lack of a task. There was a task, but it wasn’t a task. The question is why? In the Stalin Soviet Union, the current moment didn’t allow this (the galoshes weren’t enough, where to boot), the level of productive forces didn’t allow this. in the late USSR Khrushchev and Brezhnev had such an opportunity, but there was no problem. I propose that you answer the question why there was no such problem?
                        How should I know. Maybe the funds after the military-industrial complex / space / help to all kinds of bananos were not enough for their people, or maybe some bureaucratic thought that "Soviet people do not need it"and so it goes.
                        The answer to this question must begin with an understanding of 1) what is socialism? And 2) what tasks does socialism pose? 3) Was there socialism in the USSR since the times of Khrushchev and Brezhnev?
                      18. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 19 August 2019 11: 41
                        0
                        I suggest you answer the question why there was no such task?

                        Because such a task is not feasible in the realities of the union. This requires feedback which was not absolutely. They could only set the task of quickly copying Western fashion both in style and in quality, but this was impossible according to ideological principles.
                        The answer to this question must begin with an understanding of 1) what is socialism? And 2) what tasks does socialism pose? 3) Was there socialism in the USSR since the times of Khrushchev and Brezhnev?

                        In short, socialism, like democracy, was for everything good, against everything bad. The problem of socialism, democracy and all of humanity is that if you scrape any person, then under the thin layer of civilization will be a wild monkey with one principle at the forefront
                        In one sitting, the strong will eat the weak.
                      19. free
                        free 19 August 2019 12: 02
                        -1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        I suggest you answer the question why there was no such task?

                        Because such a task is not feasible in the realities of the union. This requires feedback which was not absolutely. They could only set the task of quickly copying Western fashion both in style and in quality, but this was impossible according to ideological principles.
                        The answer to this question must begin with an understanding of 1) what is socialism? And 2) what tasks does socialism pose? 3) Was there socialism in the USSR since the times of Khrushchev and Brezhnev?

                        In short, socialism, like democracy, was for everything good, against everything bad. The problem of socialism, democracy and all of humanity is that if you scrape any person, then under the thin layer of civilization will be a wild monkey with one principle at the forefront
                        In one sitting, the strong will eat the weak.


                        Because such a task is not feasible in the realities of the union
                        This is absolutely not a technical problem. The answer is on a different plane.
                        For this we need feedback which was not
                        And again the question is why, why there was no feedback?
                        They could only set the task of quickly copying Western fashion both in style and in quality, but this was impossible according to ideological principles.
                        The Western fashion of those years was not completely vulgar, so there were no problems. Yes, and you could do your own, but the task was not such.
                        In short, socialism, like democracy, was for everything good, against everything bad.
                        Of course, you excuse me, but this is not the answer.
                        The answer to this question must begin with an understanding of 1) what is socialism? And 2) what tasks does socialism pose? 3) Was there socialism in the USSR since the times of Khrushchev and Brezhnev?
                        Without answering these questions, one cannot understand the reason.
                      20. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 19 August 2019 12: 46
                        0
                        This is absolutely not a technical problem. The answer is on a different plane.

                        So I don’t say what it is technical problem.
                        And again the question is why, why there was no feedback?

                        Are you asking me why there was no feedback in the union ??? I won’t help you here. Only a psychic will help you here, which will cause you the spirit of Brezhnev, Khrushchev, or who was responsible in those days.
                        The Western fashion of those years was not completely vulgar, so there were no problems. Yes, and you could do your own, but the task was not such.
                        I beg of you. To admit that in the west is better than clothes?
                        1) what is socialism? And 2) what tasks does socialism pose? 3) Was there socialism in the USSR since the times of Khrushchev and Brezhnev?
                        I have no idea.
                        Without answering these questions, one cannot understand the reason.

                        The reason is simple - a planned economy is not effective.
                      21. free
                        free 19 August 2019 12: 59
                        -1
                        [quote = Flamberg] [quote] This is absolutely not a technical problem. The answer is on a different plane. [/ quote]
                        So I don’t say what it is technical problem.
                        [quote] And again the question is why, why there was no feedback? [/ quote]
                        Are you asking me why there was no feedback in the union ??? I won’t help you here. Only a psychic will help you here, which will cause you the spirit of Brezhnev, Khrushchev, or who was responsible in those days.
                        [quote] Western fashion of those years was not completely vulgar, so there were no problems. Yes, and you could do your own, but the task was not there. [/ quote] I beg you. To admit that in the west is better than clothes?
                        [quote] 1) what is socialism? And 2) what tasks does socialism pose? 3) Was socialism in the USSR of the times of Khrushchev and Brezhnev? [/ quote] I have no idea.
                        [quote] Without answering these questions, it is impossible to understand the reason. [/ quote]
                        The reason is simple - a planned economy is not effective. [/ Quote]

                        1) what is socialism? And 2) what tasks does socialism pose? 3) Was there socialism in the USSR since the times of Khrushchev and Brezhnev? [/ Quote]
                        I have no idea.

                        How can you discuss and condemn something that you have no idea?
                      22. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 19 August 2019 16: 46
                        0
                        How can you discuss and condemn something that you have no idea?

                        I condemn, as you put it, not the ideology of socialism. I condemn the political system that could only lie about a bright future.
                        Although I’m not a believer, I immediately remembered -
                        by their fruits you will know them

                        What fruits did the union leave behind, with the exception of the military-industrial complex, outer space and the Khrushchev ??? No ...
                      23. free
                        free 19 August 2019 16: 53
                        -1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        How can you discuss and condemn something that you have no idea?

                        I condemn, as you put it, not the ideology of socialism. I condemn the political system that could only lie about a bright future.
                        Although I’m not a believer, I immediately remembered -
                        by their fruits you will know them

                        What fruits did the union leave behind, with the exception of the military-industrial complex, outer space and the Khrushchev ??? No ...


                        I condemn the political system
                        And what was the state-political system then?
                      24. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 19 August 2019 18: 00
                        0
                        And what was the state-political system then?

                        He was what he was. Peter 1 was an extravagant man and if you dig deeper into a rather ambiguous person, but we judge him not because of what he was, but according to his deeds. Therefore, no matter how the system was, only the results are important.
                      25. free
                        free 19 August 2019 18: 49
                        0
                        [quote = Flamberg] [quote] And then what was the state-political system? [/ quote]
                        He was what he was. Peter 1 was an extravagant man and if you dig deeper into a rather ambiguous person, but we judge him not because of what he was, but according to his deeds. Therefore, no matter how the system was, only the results are important. [/ Quote]

                        Therefore, no matter how the system was, only the results were important.. [/ Quote]
                        I don’t agree. According to your logic, the embodiment of the idea is obtained = the idea itself, but this is not at all. How to understand what result awaits you when you do not know what the goal is, what is the method of achieving the goal.

                        From the reign of Khrushchev to the collapse of the USSR, the dictatorship of the proletariat changed to the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. But simple human joys (which you pointed out) do not contradict socialism at all. welfare of the working people, political power method (if very very simplified).

                        I beg of you. To admit that in the west is better than clothes?
                        A simple statement of fact does not make sense, you need to understand why it was so. Otherwise, you can step on the same rake indefinitely. And you can understand only by understanding the difference between the idea and its embodiment. Who and why distorted the idea of ​​communism, the objective and subjective factors that influenced on the result. This question is not very simple.

                        What fruits did the union leave behind, with the exception of the military-industrial complex, outer space and the Khrushchev ??? No ...
                        You can’t take results in isolation from the possibilities of the current period. The Union was only 70 years old, and how many of them were calm? Correctly not at all. Compare what the cap.countries could do for the same period, but do not forget to compare the level of development of productive forces (read opportunities) on that moment of the USSR and the cap.country with which you will compare.

                        The reason is simple - a planned economy is not effective.
                        Exactly the opposite. There is no more efficient system than planned. And that's why.
                        In a separate enterprise, the capitalist takes into account every penny, that is, an exemplary order. But chaos reigns in the general sales market, capitalists seek profit and therefore redirect capital to the sector where production will bring the greatest profit, and this happens all the time. Capital flows from one sector of the economy to where the other is more profitable. Consequently, we get the crisis of overproduction, this crisis is systemic, unavoidable within the framework of the capital system.
                        The planned economy does not plan from scratch, for planning there is such a tool as statistics. Planning is based on it. The country is like one large factory where there is no place for a chaotic search for profit.
                      26. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 20 August 2019 05: 07
                        0
                        I don’t agree. According to your logic, the embodiment of the idea is obtained = the idea itself, but this is not at all. How to understand what result awaits you when you do not know what the goal is, what is the method of achieving the goal.
                        We are talking about history in general, there is no need to wait for the result, it already exists ...
                        From the reign of Khrushchev to the collapse of the USSR, the process of changing the dictatorship of the proletariat to the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie took place. Accordingly, the interests of the working people moved further and further during this process.
                        After all, we can say that this is the original depravity of the CPSU, which Lenin / Stalin personally leveled at the beginning. And then I doubt that this "dictatorship of the proletariat" existed in reality, and not in words.
                        From this it is necessary to push around to understand, for example, why the task was to provide and the task to do was not beautiful.
                        I tell you once again that I don’t care about the internal causes of the CPSU.
                        But simple human joys (which you pointed out) do not contradict socialism at all. The purpose of socialism is the welfare of the working people, the method of political power (if very very simplified).
                        And democracy is literally - the power of the people. So what?
                        It is impossible to take results in isolation from the possibilities of the current period. The Union had only 70 years, and how many of them were calm?
                        We must not forget that the union was also not white and fluffy and climbed into trouble.
                        Compare what the cap.countries were able to do for the same period, but do not forget to compare the level of development of productive forces (read opportunities) at that time of the USSR and the cap.countries with which you will compare.
                        You are missing one point. Who made the union be a gag in every barrel? In my opinion, no one. Maybe you had to first get firmly on your feet, and then butt but with cap countries? Who is to blame for the union that he put a cart before the horse?
                        Quite the contrary. There is no more effective system than planned

                        No no and one more time no.
                        Here is why.
                        In a separate enterprise, the capitalist takes into account every penny, that is, an exemplary order. But chaos reigns in the general sales market, capitalists seek profit and therefore redirect capital to the sector where production will bring the greatest profit, and this happens all the time. Capital flows from one sector of the economy to where the other is more profitable. Consequently, we get the crisis of overproduction, this crisis is systemic, unavoidable within the framework of the capital system.
                        But in reality, despite this "crisis", the economies of capital countries are constantly growing. How so?
                        The planned economy does not plan from scratch, for planning there is such a tool as statistics. Planning is based on it. The country is like one large factory where there is no place for a chaotic search for profit.
                        Statistics ... Hmm ...
                        - What is the average temperature of patients in the En hospital?
                        - 36,6 ° C, including purulent and morgue!

                        You understand that in order for a planned economy to even come close to a market one in terms of efficiency, the ministry should be staffed with nostradamuses, wangs, and other cashiers. Even to me, a person without an economic education, it is obvious that statistics cannot accurately predict the demand of the population. As a matter of fact, it was in the union. Somewhere pigs are fed capelin, but somewhere you will not find it during the day with fire, but statistically there is a capelin on average;
                      27. free
                        free 20 August 2019 06: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        I don’t agree. According to your logic, the embodiment of the idea is obtained = the idea itself, but this is not at all. How to understand what result awaits you when you do not know what the goal is, what is the method of achieving the goal.
                        We are talking about history in general, there is no need to wait for the result, it already exists ...
                        From the reign of Khrushchev to the collapse of the USSR, the process of changing the dictatorship of the proletariat to the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie took place. Accordingly, the interests of the working people moved further and further during this process.
                        After all, we can say that this is the original depravity of the CPSU, which Lenin / Stalin personally leveled at the beginning. And then I doubt that this "dictatorship of the proletariat" existed in reality, and not in words.
                        From this it is necessary to push around to understand, for example, why the task was to provide and the task to do was not beautiful.
                        I tell you once again that I don’t care about the internal causes of the CPSU.
                        But simple human joys (which you pointed out) do not contradict socialism at all. The purpose of socialism is the welfare of the working people, the method of political power (if very very simplified).
                        And democracy is literally - the power of the people. So what?
                        It is impossible to take results in isolation from the possibilities of the current period. The Union had only 70 years, and how many of them were calm?
                        We must not forget that the union was also not white and fluffy and climbed into trouble.
                        Compare what the cap.countries were able to do for the same period, but do not forget to compare the level of development of productive forces (read opportunities) at that time of the USSR and the cap.countries with which you will compare.
                        You are missing one point. Who made the union be a gag in every barrel? In my opinion, no one. Maybe you had to first get firmly on your feet, and then butt but with cap countries? Who is to blame for the union that he put a cart before the horse?
                        Quite the contrary. There is no more effective system than planned

                        No no and one more time no.
                        Here is why.
                        In a separate enterprise, the capitalist takes into account every penny, that is, an exemplary order. But chaos reigns in the general sales market, capitalists seek profit and therefore redirect capital to the sector where production will bring the greatest profit, and this happens all the time. Capital flows from one sector of the economy to where the other is more profitable. Consequently, we get the crisis of overproduction, this crisis is systemic, unavoidable within the framework of the capital system.
                        But in reality, despite this "crisis", the economies of capital countries are constantly growing. How so?
                        The planned economy does not plan from scratch, for planning there is such a tool as statistics. Planning is based on it. The country is like one large factory where there is no place for a chaotic search for profit.
                        Statistics ... Hmm ...
                        - What is the average temperature of patients in the En hospital?
                        - 36,6 ° C, including purulent and morgue!

                        You understand that in order for a planned economy to even come close to a market one in terms of efficiency, the ministry should be staffed with nostradamuses, wangs, and other cashiers. Even to me, a person without an economic education, it is obvious that statistics cannot accurately predict the demand of the population. As a matter of fact, it was in the union. Somewhere pigs are fed capelin, but somewhere you will not find it during the day with fire, but statistically there is a capelin on average;


                        We are talking about history in general, the result does not have to wait, it already exists
                        Yes, but can you say unequivocally why the result is what it is?

                        After all, we can say that this is the original depravity of the CPSU
                        The CPSU is just an abbreviation, the party is not a single organism, there is always a confrontation. It's not about the names, it's about the people, "cadres decide everything" remember? So there are a lot of conscious, intelligent people who understand both dialectics and materialism (training was still active from the first years of Soviet power) died in the Second World War, the best cadres were knocked out to a large extent. Have you ever wondered why capitalism, bestial, unprincipled, turned out to be more stable than socialism? The answer in Stalin's phrase "cadres decide everything", it is not only managers that are extremely important level the consciousness of the masses, because if the top tricks the masses, they should immediately correct their brains. Did it really happen? No, because there was no level of consciousness that was before the Second World War, the party cadres at the exit from the Second World War were not the same. After Stalin's death, the deviation towards the right (restoration of capital relations) began. And the masses were not conscious at the proper level, they did not pull down the power. So the reason for the stability of capitalism is that o capitalism is a bestial principle in man, you just have to abandon any good principles and you will automatically turn into a beast. Socialism, on the contrary, requires significant efforts in cognition, in self-improvement. Until the masses reach this required level of consciousness, capitalism will be more stable.

                        But in reality, despite this "crisis", the economies of capital countries are constantly growing. How so?
                        Due to what growth? What is the growth of the economy?

                        Even to me, a person without an economic education, it is obvious that statistics cannot accurately predict the demand of the population.
                        Oh, you.
                        Statistics does not predict anything, statistics collects applications, takes into account how much of the requested and where it was spent, makes scientific forecast, etc.

                        As a matter of fact, it was in the union. Somewhere pigs are fed capelin, but somewhere you will not find it during the day with fire, but statistically there is a capelin on average;
                        Averaging is a feature of the modern bourgeois government of the Russian Federation.

                        And then I doubt that this "dictatorship of the proletariat" existed in reality, and not in words.
                        "You will know them by deeds," remember your words? Judge by deeds.

                        Why do you think the planned system is worse than the market?
                      28. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 20 August 2019 07: 36
                        0
                        But can you say unequivocally why the result is what it is?

                        The union could not.
                        The CPSU is just an abbreviation, the party is not a single organism, there is always a confrontation. It's not about the names, it's about the people, "cadres decide everything" remember? So there are a lot of conscious, intelligent people who understand both dialectics and materialism (training was still active from the first years of Soviet power) died in the Second World War, the best cadres were knocked out to a large extent. Have you ever wondered why capitalism, bestial, unprincipled, turned out to be more stable than socialism? The answer in Stalin's phrase "cadres decide everything", it is not only managers that are extremely important level the consciousness of the masses, because if the top tricks the masses, they should immediately correct their brains. Did it really happen? No, because there was no level of consciousness that was before the Second World War, the party cadres at the exit from the Second World War were not the same. After Stalin's death, the deviation towards the right (restoration of capital relations) began. And the masses were not conscious at the proper level, they did not pull down the power. So the reason for the stability of capitalism is that o capitalism is a bestial principle in man, you just have to abandon any good principles and you will automatically turn into a beast. Socialism, on the contrary, requires significant efforts in cognition, in self-improvement. Until the masses reach this required level of consciousness, capitalism will be more stable.
                        hehe Only capitalism is not just the bestial it is predatory Start. Watch the news. In normal democratic countries, where the authorities are trying to tighten their belts to their citizens, people take to the streets and, figuratively speaking, try to grab the powers that be for the Faberge to work better. And with the collapse of the union, how was it? No way. Because the authorities brought up uninitiated herbivores who can do nothing except mumble in the kitchen.

                        You wrote a lot of letters and quite thoroughly "blurred your thoughts on wood", but again you miss the fact that the authorities of the Soviets had everything in their hands four branch. That is, the authorities had no checks and balances. The power of the soviets was like a car without brakes, there was no one to press the brake and give the power of the bream. Where the helm rules there and go. But what the government did effectively was fighting the opposition, it was not at all fishing. People trying to criticize the authorities were immediately declared to be counters, enemies of the people, agents of Western special services.
                        Due to what growth? What is the growth of the economy?
                        I am not an economist to talk about economics. Yes, and we have a discussion about something else.
                        Oh, you.
                        Statistics does not predict anything, statistics collects applications, takes into account how much of the requested and where it was spent, makes a scientific forecast, etc.

                        Scientific prediction is scientific prediction. Do not find fault with the words. No scientific forecast can predict demand. The Union showed this perfectly with its planned distortions.
                      29. free
                        free 20 August 2019 08: 33
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        But can you say unequivocally why the result is what it is?

                        The union could not.
                        The CPSU is just an abbreviation, the party is not a single organism, there is always a confrontation. It's not about the names, it's about the people, "cadres decide everything" remember? So there are a lot of conscious, intelligent people who understand both dialectics and materialism (training was still active from the first years of Soviet power) died in the Second World War, the best cadres were knocked out to a large extent. Have you ever wondered why capitalism, bestial, unprincipled, turned out to be more stable than socialism? The answer in Stalin's phrase "cadres decide everything", it is not only managers that are extremely important level the consciousness of the masses, because if the top tricks the masses, they should immediately correct their brains. Did it really happen? No, because there was no level of consciousness that was before the Second World War, the party cadres at the exit from the Second World War were not the same. After Stalin's death, the deviation towards the right (restoration of capital relations) began. And the masses were not conscious at the proper level, they did not pull down the power. So the reason for the stability of capitalism is that o capitalism is a bestial principle in man, you just have to abandon any good principles and you will automatically turn into a beast. Socialism, on the contrary, requires significant efforts in cognition, in self-improvement. Until the masses reach this required level of consciousness, capitalism will be more stable.
                        hehe Only capitalism is not just the bestial it is predatory Start. Watch the news. In normal democratic countries, where the authorities are trying to tighten their belts to their citizens, people take to the streets and, figuratively speaking, try to grab the powers that be for the Faberge to work better. And with the collapse of the union, how was it? No way. Because the authorities brought up uninitiated herbivores who can do nothing except mumble in the kitchen.

                        You wrote a lot of letters and quite thoroughly "blurred your thoughts on wood", but again you miss the fact that the authorities of the Soviets had everything in their hands four branch. That is, the authorities had no checks and balances. The power of the soviets was like a car without brakes, there was no one to press the brake and give the power of the bream. Where the helm rules there and go. But what the government did effectively was fighting the opposition, it was not at all fishing. People trying to criticize the authorities were immediately declared to be counters, enemies of the people, agents of Western special services.
                        Due to what growth? What is the growth of the economy?
                        I am not an economist to talk about economics. Yes, and we have a discussion about something else.
                        Oh, you.
                        Statistics does not predict anything, statistics collects applications, takes into account how much of the requested and where it was spent, makes a scientific forecast, etc.

                        Scientific prediction is scientific prediction. Do not find fault with the words. No scientific forecast can predict demand. The Union showed this perfectly with its planned distortions.


                        The union could not.
                        I asked you a question. We are talking with you. So can you give a definite answer why the USSR crashed?

                        ]Because the authorities brought up uninitiated herbivores who can do nothing except mumble in the kitchen
                        People always and everywhere cannot do anything if they are unorganized. Who organizes protests in Western countries? What are they fighting for through protests in the West? Who is the main beneficiary of these protests?

                        Scientific prediction is scientific prediction
                        You will excuse me, but this is stupid. The prediction is sucked out of your finger, it is a horoscope for example. The scientific forecast is built on the analysis of what happened and on the basis of this, what will happen is predicted. Feel the difference!

                        The power of the soviets was like a car without brakes
                        Was it the power of the Soviets? What is the power of the Soviets? Justify that it was the power of the Soviets.

                        I'm not an economist to talk about economics
                        This is noticeable, no offense. And since you are not an economist, how did you derive this thesis?The reason is simple - a planned economy is not effective.. These are your words, since you are not an economist and do not want to talk about economics, you probably believed someone’s word. Can you prove your claim?

                        The Union showed this perfectly with its planned distortions.
                        You We drove a car driving and crashed into a tree. Who is to blame? You, or a car? Or maybe a tree? You don’t know how to drive or the car is structurally wrong, draw a conclusion.
                      30. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 20 August 2019 09: 44
                        0
                        You, with a persistence worthy of better use, are trying to prove that the Soviet Union after the death of Stalin left the socialist path. So I don't argue with you. I am not interested in Soviet ideology, and I have no desire to understand this verbal husk. And I don't need to prove anything. I can give you proof that the cockroach has "ears" on its feet, but the real cost of this proof is zero.
                        The total problem of the UNION is the lack of opposition / competition in power, and not in the absence / presence of ideologists. There was no one to say - your planned economy through ..... it works, people behind the deficit in the queues go out - there is no one! Too much power in the same hands corrupts.
                      31. free
                        free 20 August 2019 11: 19
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        You, with a persistence worthy of better use, are trying to prove that the Soviet Union after the death of Stalin left the socialist path. So I don't argue with you. I am not interested in Soviet ideology, and I have no desire to understand this verbal husk. And I don't need to prove anything. I can give you proof that the cockroach has "ears" on its feet, but the real cost of this proof is zero.
                        The total problem of the UNION is the lack of opposition / competition in power, and not in the absence / presence of ideologists. There was no one to say - your planned economy through ..... it works, people behind the deficit in the queues go out - there is no one! Too much power in the same hands corrupts.


                        Therefore, the planned economy did not work normally, because we turned off the socialist path. How can you not understand this.
                      32. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 20 August 2019 12: 06
                        0
                        Good...
                        Tell me how you are going to replace the "invisible hand of the market" in a planned economy. Considering that adjustments to the plan should be daily, do not tell about statistics. With the help of statistics, weather forecasts are made and the accuracy there is a limit of two days. Or you are going to analyze information on consumption / production in the country on a daily basis.
                      33. free
                        free 20 August 2019 13: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Good...
                        Tell me how you are going to replace the "invisible hand of the market" in a planned economy. Considering that adjustments to the plan should be daily, do not tell about statistics. With the help of statistics, weather forecasts are made and the accuracy there is a limit of two days. Or you are going to analyze information on consumption / production in the country on a daily basis.


                        Given that adjustments to the plan should be daily about statistics, do not tell
                        What are the plans requiring daily adjustment?

                        Or are you going to analyze information on consumption / production in the country on a daily basis
                        Production and consumption are not taken from the sky, it depends on various factors. And take them into account. For example, the consumption of products depends on the number of people.

                        Tell me how you are going to replace the "invisible hand of the market"
                        But does it exist? And in what way is it expressed if it exists?
                      34. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 21 August 2019 05: 01
                        0
                        What are the plans requiring daily adjustment?

                        If not daily, then weekly one hundred percent.
                        Production and consumption are not taken from the sky, it depends on various factors. And take them into account. For example, the consumption of products depends on the number of people.

                        How simple it is for you. Only it doesn’t work like that. Otherwise, the union would not have distorted the economy. And do not talk about the socialist path, to do your job you need to be a professional, not a believer in the ideals of socialism / communism. And most importantly, why a planned economy does not work, is that a person cannot be included in the plan.
                        But does it exist? And in what way is it expressed if it exists?

                        And how do you think the market economy works? No plans, no tasks, and no statistics?
                      35. free
                        free 24 August 2019 17: 50
                        -1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        What are the plans requiring daily adjustment?

                        If not daily, then weekly one hundred percent.
                        Production and consumption are not taken from the sky, it depends on various factors. And take them into account. For example, the consumption of products depends on the number of people.

                        How simple it is for you. Only it doesn’t work like that. Otherwise, the union would not have distorted the economy. And do not talk about the socialist path, to do your job you need to be a professional, not a believer in the ideals of socialism / communism. And most importantly, why a planned economy does not work, is that a person cannot be included in the plan.
                        But does it exist? And in what way is it expressed if it exists?

                        And how do you think the market economy works? No plans, no tasks, and no statistics?


                        If not daily, then weekly one hundred percent.
                        Give an example.
                        How simple it is for you. Only it doesn’t work like that.
                        I gave you a simplified example. You didn’t seriously consider that I would write a lecture to you. You can find examples and think out yourself.
                        And do not talk about the socialist path, to do your job, you must be a professional
                        Of course, only a professional always believes in either his wallet or the ideals of communism. And this determines the nature of his actions.
                        it is that a person cannot be included in the plan.
                        What does this mean?
                        And how do you think the market economy works? No plans, no tasks, and no statistics?
                        Chaotic. For the sake of the minority, to the detriment of the majority.
                      36. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 26 August 2019 05: 04
                        0
                        Give an example.

                        A conditional enterprise produces goods that, due to their consumer qualities, are not in demand at all or in the proper volume, or, on the contrary, the demand is too great, this may be a problem of quality, relevance, weather (ice cream). In a market economy, a manufacturer has a vested interest in tracking this information; a manufacturer will always try to satisfy the population’s need for a product and not produce a product that it cannot sell. With a planned economy, there are no such problems. It is important for enterprises to make a plan of how goods will be sold at the same time; it does not matter to them.
                        I gave you a simplified example. You didn’t seriously consider that I would write a lecture to you. You can find examples and think out yourself.

                        I can only think of the fact that it is not possible to predict demand.
                        Of course, only a professional always believes in either his wallet or the ideals of communism. And this determines the nature of his actions.

                        You speak as if it is something bad. A professional must do his job and get paid for it. What he believes there is not important at all.
                        it is that a person cannot be included in the plan.
                        What does this mean?

                        For a planned economy to work necessary to bring the plan not only for producers, but also for consumers, and this is not possible.
                        Chaotic. For the sake of the minority, to the detriment of the majority.

                        Actually, this is how the planned economy of the USSR worked. A market economy does not work, of course, but it works.
                      37. free
                        free 27 August 2019 14: 01
                        -1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Give an example.

                        A conditional enterprise produces goods that, due to their consumer qualities, are not in demand at all or in the proper volume, or, on the contrary, the demand is too great, this may be a problem of quality, relevance, weather (ice cream). In a market economy, a manufacturer has a vested interest in tracking this information; a manufacturer will always try to satisfy the population’s need for a product and not produce a product that it cannot sell. With a planned economy, there are no such problems. It is important for enterprises to make a plan of how goods will be sold at the same time; it does not matter to them.
                        I gave you a simplified example. You didn’t seriously consider that I would write a lecture to you. You can find examples and think out yourself.

                        how the product will be sold will not matter to them ..
                        Of course, only a professional always believes in either his wallet or the ideals of communism. And this determines the nature of his actions.

                        You speak as if it is something bad. A professional must do his job and get paid for it. What he believes there is not important at all.
                        it is that a person cannot be included in the plan.
                        What does this mean?

                        For a planned economy to work necessary to bring the plan not only for producers, but also for consumers, and this is not possible.
                        Chaotic. For the sake of the minority, to the detriment of the majority.

                        Actually, this is how the planned economy of the USSR worked. A market economy does not work, of course, but it works.


                        In a market economy, the manufacturer has a vested interest in tracking this information.
                        And how does he track it? Exactly, this is the same statistics only called differently.

                        how the product will be sold will not matter to them.
                        Not true. Just in a planned economy, the sales market is extremely important, it is necessary to sell the goods without causing a waste of resources (overproduction) and without promoting inflation.
                        But the market does not care, the manufacturer threw off the goods to the outbid (speculators) and it does not matter to him at what price the outbidders can sell, he took his own. If something is not so large producer will simply transfer capital to another sector of the economy. goods with a markup from the manufacturer, hence the rise in inflation and the rise in prices. Overproduction does not bother the manufacturer, he has already calculated everything (with the help of the same statistics), overproduction will "kill" small outbids, but not him.

                        I can only think of the fact that it is not possible to predict demand.
                        Alas and ah. Throughout the world, the role of statistics is great.

                        A professional must do his job and get paid for it.
                        Absolutely.

                        What he believes there is not important at all.
                        There is such a company called Rosneft. Of the 11 directors, only 4 with Russian surnames, the rest are foreigners. Do you really think that it does not matter at all in whose interests they act?

                        In order for the planned economy to work, it is necessary to bring the plan not only for producers, but also for consumers, and this is not possible.
                        And this is not necessary. It is necessary to base production on the basis of the needs of the population, army, navy, agriculture, etc. Again and again, the queen of statistics.

                        A market economy does not work, of course, but it works.
                        Do you refuse to believe that the number of poor is growing in our country? Compare the number of rich with the number of poor and you will see how the market economy works and in whose interests.
                      38. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 28 August 2019 06: 40
                        0
                        And how does he track it? Exactly, this is the same statistics only called differently.

                        That is what collects statistics in its extremely narrow direction for its specific place of implementation.
                        Not true. Just in a planned economy, the sales market is extremely important, it is necessary to sell the goods without causing a waste of resources (overproduction) and without promoting inflation.
                        Where does inflation come from in a planned economy where the state determines the price?
                        But the market doesn’t care, the manufacturer threw the goods outbids (speculators) and it doesn’t matter at what price the outbids can sell, he took his own.
                        In your opinion, in a market economy you can produce any product, then throw it outbid and there is no problem? Outbids simply will not take illiquid goods. A product that is not in demand or does not correspond to the price / quality ratio, the manufacturer will not be able to sell. But in the planned economy there is just no problem with this, the manufacturer will still buy his goods or he will rot on the shelves of the store. The main plan for him is to fulfill.
                        If something is wrong, a large producer will simply transfer capital to another sector of the economy.

                        How do you imagine that? Today we pump oil tomorrow we roll canned fish? In another sector, as if the same, there are probably large manufacturers and just like that they will not move.
                        And outbids will wind up another percent for already goods with a margin from the manufacturer, hence the growth of inflation and rising prices.
                        Inflation depends on a huge number of reasons. First of all, from the monetary policy of the state.
                        Alas and ah. Throughout the world, the role of statistics is great.
                        I'm not saying that the role of statistics is not significant.
                        There is such a company called Rosneft. Of the 11 directors, only 4 with Russian surnames, the rest are foreigners. Do you really think that it does not matter at all in whose interests they act?
                        Interests and faith do not find two different things? Your example is not correct.
                        And this is not necessary. It is necessary to base production on the basis of the needs of the population, army, navy, agriculture, etc. Again and again, the queen of statistics.
                        Yes, how to determine these needs then ??? It is clear that basic needs for basic products can be predicted !! But milk and cowards needs do not end there! And anyway, what does a woman want ??? She doesn’t know ...
                        Good ... Can you predict the weather for this winter? After all, the demand for which directly depends on the production of winter early / late, cold / warm, snowy or not directly affects the production of consumer goods. Last winter in my Altai Territory was completely snowless, in March there was more snow than in the whole winter. And over the past five years, in different years, there was a frost at the beginning of November -40, rain in December, a snowy winter with snowdrifts of 4 meters on the highway, so the army punched the roads.
                        Do you refuse to believe that the number of poor is growing in our country? Compare the number of rich with the number of poor and you will see how the market economy works and in whose interests.
                        And do not take as an example our country, with our under-democracy. Take Germany ... They produce some of the best cars without goals, objectives and faith in communism. And they live well overall, they can afford a lot.
                      39. free
                        free 28 August 2019 07: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        And how does he track it? Exactly, this is the same statistics only called differently.

                        That is what collects statistics in its extremely narrow direction for its specific place of implementation.
                        Not true. Just in a planned economy, the sales market is extremely important, it is necessary to sell the goods without causing a waste of resources (overproduction) and without promoting inflation.
                        Where does inflation come from in a planned economy where the state determines the price?
                        But the market doesn’t care, the manufacturer threw the goods outbids (speculators) and it doesn’t matter at what price the outbids can sell, he took his own.
                        In your opinion, in a market economy you can produce any product, then throw it outbid and there is no problem? Outbids simply will not take illiquid goods. A product that is not in demand or does not correspond to the price / quality ratio, the manufacturer will not be able to sell. But in the planned economy there is just no problem with this, the manufacturer will still buy his goods or he will rot on the shelves of the store. The main plan for him is to fulfill.
                        If something is wrong, a large producer will simply transfer capital to another sector of the economy.

                        How do you imagine that? Today we pump oil tomorrow we roll canned fish? In another sector, as if the same, there are probably large manufacturers and just like that they will not move.
                        And outbids will wind up another percent for already goods with a margin from the manufacturer, hence the growth of inflation and rising prices.
                        Inflation depends on a huge number of reasons. First of all, from the monetary policy of the state.
                        Alas and ah. Throughout the world, the role of statistics is great.
                        I'm not saying that the role of statistics is not significant.
                        There is such a company called Rosneft. Of the 11 directors, only 4 with Russian surnames, the rest are foreigners. Do you really think that it does not matter at all in whose interests they act?
                        Interests and faith do not find two different things? Your example is not correct.
                        And this is not necessary. It is necessary to base production on the basis of the needs of the population, army, navy, agriculture, etc. Again and again, the queen of statistics.
                        Yes, how to determine these needs then ??? It is clear that basic needs for basic products can be predicted !! But milk and cowards needs do not end there! And anyway, what does a woman want ??? She doesn’t know ...
                        Good ... Can you predict the weather for this winter? After all, the demand for which directly depends on the production of winter early / late, cold / warm, snowy or not directly affects the production of consumer goods. Last winter in my Altai Territory was completely snowless, in March there was more snow than in the whole winter. And over the past five years, in different years, there was a frost at the beginning of November -40, rain in December, a snowy winter with snowdrifts of 4 meters on the highway, so the army punched the roads.
                        Do you refuse to believe that the number of poor is growing in our country? Compare the number of rich with the number of poor and you will see how the market economy works and in whose interests.
                        And do not take as an example our country, with our under-democracy. Take Germany ... They produce some of the best cars without goals, objectives and faith in communism. And they live well overall, they can afford a lot.


                        I'm not saying that the role of statistics is not significant.
                        You simply reject it in this comment for example.And how do you think the market economy works? No plans, no tasks and without statistics?And in this they already agree that it is there and it works quite well. [II'm not saying that the role of statistics is not significant.[/ I]Exactly what collects statistics in its extremely narrow direction for its specific place of implementation.Do not juggle with words please.

                        Where does inflation come from in a planned economy where the state determines the price?
                        But did the laws of economics as a science cease to apply in a planned economy?

                        How do you imagine that? Today we pump oil tomorrow we roll canned fish? In another sector, as if the same, there are probably large manufacturers and just like that they will not move.
                        Exactly so, only this is not done at the last moment, but in advance. An example from automakers, that is, in addition to the main direction.
                        Subaru. Helicopters, airplanes. Hyundai Motor Group ships, subway cars. etc examples of the sea.
                        And at unprofitable production, the pace is reduced until better times. They cut people, for example, cut wages. (For the sake of a minority of owners, to the detriment of most workers).

                        In another sector, it’s probably the same there are large manufacturers and they won’t just move.
                        By the way, you accidentally debunked the tale of the capitalists that in the conditions of the market everyone has equal opportunities for doing business.

                        Interests and faith do not find two different things? Your example is not correct.
                        No, I don’t find it, and that’s why. I’m not talking about the faith that is in the temples. I’m talking about the fact that if the directors of Rosneft believe in their wallet and value it much more than your life, for example, they act accordingly. Do not agree? on the Internet and see how much these guys earn and how much they put in their pocket and how much to the budget, do not forget to count for each inhabitant of the country. Now compare. And what are the foreigners doing there? After all, our bowels belong to people. a direct consequence of what they and other capitalists believe.

                        And do not take as an example our country, with our under-democracy. Take Germany
                        And didn’t you wonder why we have under-democracy? Why we do not have flourishing capitalism. And because, as you yourself said, all the places are already occupied and we have the place for the raw material column. That's our rulers who built Russia into this place, it’s great for them no to the population. This is again a question of what you believe in, wallet or communism.

                        Good ... Can you predict the weather for this winter?
                        The corresponding services are engaged in this, forecasts can be found on the Internet. Statistics here are present by the way.

                        It is clear that basic needs for basic products can be predicted !!
                        Well, finally. Everything else is exactly the same. The country needs tank factories, metal, workers. People want to buy cars, roads, asphalt, workers, skating rinks, etc.
                        State orders, for example, in all countries are forecasted, no one sculpts from the bulldozer.

                        In your opinion, in a market economy you can produce any product, then throw it outbid and there is no problem? Outbids simply will not take illiquid goods.
                        And when did I say that? Statistics are the first friend and assistant to the capitalist. The capitalist will produce what is needed but he is not alone in the first, and secondly, production will work until demand drops, where to put the surplus? Statistics of falling demand are not available to everyone , goods have been accumulated in warehouses, and demand has already fallen. The producer is no longer producing, and outbid (small and medium-sized businesses) got into the ditch, you need to trade not at the price they were counting on (loans taken from small businesses for turnover), small business was ruined the average waits until demand increases if it can. There is a crisis of overproduction.
                      40. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 28 August 2019 08: 56
                        0
                        I'm not saying that the role of statistics is not significant.
                        You simply reject it in this comment for example. And how do you think the market economy works? Without plans, without tasks, and without statistics? And in this they already agree that it exists and even works well. [I and I do not say that the role of statistics is not significant. [/ I] That is what collects statistics in its extremely narrow direction for its specific places of implementation. Do not juggle with words, please.

                        There is a nuance as in that joke about Petka and Chapaev. It is one thing when a local company collects the statistics necessary for itself independently, and it’s quite another when an uncle sitting in the middle of nowhere gives you a production plan based on don’t understand who and how the data is collected.
                        I mean that if the directors of Rosneft believe in their wallet and value it, respectively, much more than your life, for example.
                        In a normal state, there are normal laws that work. People must believe in the inevitability of punishment for their illegal actions, this is quite enough. And indeed in any other way. People in the Middle Ages truly believed in God, but this did not stop them from cutting each other on an industrial scale. So no faith can hold back, a person will always find excuse.
                        Have you ever wondered why we have under-democracy?
                        There is no competition in power. Plus the legacy of the union in which they stole absolutely everything from a locksmith to a minister.
                        The corresponding services are engaged in this, forecasts can be found on the Internet. Statistics here are present by the way.
                        That is, you can’t predict? What is natural ... The weather forecast for three days has an accuracy of 85–95%. So to make an accurate forecast for the winter is simply not possible. Accordingly, when planning, we have an unknown value that will not allow us to implement the plan 100%.
                        Well, finally. Everything else is exactly the same. The country needs tank factories, metal, workers. People want to buy cars, roads, asphalt, workers, skating rinks, etc.
                        State orders, for example, in all countries are forecasted, no one sculpts from the bulldozer.
                        It is impossible to predict the demand for goods. Too many factors affect him. The Union has shown this perfectly.
                      41. free
                        free 28 August 2019 11: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        I'm not saying that the role of statistics is not significant.
                        You simply reject it in this comment for example. And how do you think the market economy works? Without plans, without tasks, and without statistics? And in this they already agree that it exists and even works well. [I and I do not say that the role of statistics is not significant. [/ I] That is what collects statistics in its extremely narrow direction for its specific places of implementation. Do not juggle with words, please.

                        There is a nuance as in that joke about Petka and Chapaev. It is one thing when a local company collects the statistics necessary for itself independently, and it’s quite another when an uncle sitting in the middle of nowhere gives you a production plan based on don’t understand who and how the data is collected.
                        I mean that if the directors of Rosneft believe in their wallet and value it, respectively, much more than your life, for example.
                        In a normal state, there are normal laws that work. People must believe in the inevitability of punishment for their illegal actions, this is quite enough. And indeed in any other way. People in the Middle Ages truly believed in God, but this did not stop them from cutting each other on an industrial scale. So no faith can hold back, a person will always find excuse.
                        Have you ever wondered why we have under-democracy?
                        There is no competition in power. Plus the legacy of the union in which they stole absolutely everything from a locksmith to a minister.
                        The corresponding services are engaged in this, forecasts can be found on the Internet. Statistics here are present by the way.
                        That is, you can’t predict? What is natural ... The weather forecast for three days has an accuracy of 85–95%. So to make an accurate forecast for the winter is simply not possible. Accordingly, when planning, we have an unknown value that will not allow us to implement the plan 100%.
                        Well, finally. Everything else is exactly the same. The country needs tank factories, metal, workers. People want to buy cars, roads, asphalt, workers, skating rinks, etc.
                        State orders, for example, in all countries are forecasted, no one sculpts from the bulldozer.
                        It is impossible to predict the demand for goods. Too many factors affect him. The Union has shown this perfectly.


                        It is one thing when a local company collects the statistics necessary for itself independently, and it’s quite another when an uncle sitting in the middle of nowhere gives you a production plan based on don’t understand who and how the data is collected.
                        On the data of the enterprises.

                        That is, you can’t predict? What is natural
                        Have you seriously suspected that I can do anything? Well, you give.

                        So to make an accurate forecast for the winter is simply not possible.
                        Exact no. Most likely yes. But this is not related to demand.


                        There is no competition in power.
                        Even as it is. But it does not change anything. Neither here, nor in the states, for example.

                        It is impossible to predict the demand for goods.
                        As much as possible.
                        But I leave you with your opinion.

                        So to make an accurate forecast for the winter is simply not possible. Accordingly, when planning, we have an unknown value that will not allow us to implement the plan 100%.
                        Do not confuse warm with soft. Mother nature and needs of people.

                        In a normal state, there are normal laws that work. People must believe in the inevitability of punishment for their illegal actions, this is quite enough.
                        That's just good and what people themselves decide badly based on what they believe in. On the basis of this, they also adopt laws. Rosneft works legally if that.

                        I leave you with your opinion. Finish.
                      42. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 28 August 2019 12: 46
                        -1
                        On the data of the enterprises.
                        Which, again, it is not known who collected, it is not known how many hands went through, it is not known how they distorted, etc. etc.
                        Exact no. Most likely yes. But this is not related to demand.

                        How? If for three days 85-95%. Even if these numbers were correct for a long-term forecast, they are still low.
                        Even as it is. But it does not change anything. Neither here, nor in the states, for example.
                        And who is our competitor? Involuntary? Do not tell my slippers. In the USA, by the way, the opposition very strongly puts sticks into the wheels.
                        As much as possible.
                        But I leave you with your opinion.

                        Only here the USSR for all the time of its existence could not ...
                        Do not confuse warm with soft. Mother nature and needs of people.
                        In the real world, people lean on ice cream in hot summers, but not in cold ones.
                        That's just good and what people themselves decide badly based on what they believe in. On the basis of this, they also adopt laws. Rosneft works legally if that.
                        And this is due to the lack of competition in power.
                        I leave you with your opinion. Finish.
                        Similarly, I leave you with your faith.
                        But an airplane is a complex mechanism in which all systems must work like clockwork .... An airplane can fly easily without faith, but without wings ... laughing
                      43. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 20 August 2019 08: 05
                        0
                        Averaging is a feature of the modern bourgeois government of the Russian Federation.

                        The power of the Russian Federation is the legacy of the union. Almost all of the richest people in Russia are former communists.
                        Why do you think the planned system is worse than the market?
                        If you want to make God laugh, tell him about your plans for the future.
                      44. free
                        free 20 August 2019 08: 37
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Averaging is a feature of the modern bourgeois government of the Russian Federation.

                        The power of the Russian Federation is the legacy of the union. Almost all of the richest people in Russia are former communists.
                        Why do you think the planned system is worse than the market?
                        If you want to make God laugh, tell him about your plans for the future.


                        Almost all of the richest people in Russia are former communists
                        Justify that they have ever been communists.

                        Do you want to make God laugh - tell him about your plans for the future
                        It is necessary to govern how God puts your soul. You did mean to say this. You are probably a big fan of the current government of the Russian Federation.
                      45. free
                        free 17 August 2019 17: 55
                        -2
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Have you ever read Soviet GOSTs?

                        Compare but not to the end.
                        He would have fallen apart seven years earlier, and would have cooked with a need in the street.
                        This is what a fright?
                        You are here according to your mother’s stories broadcasting, but other USSR remember well.

                        And what do you measure all of yourself? Do you think if you had no problems and you just had enough, then it was like that everywhere? Adequate people, unlike you, say that it was different ...


                        Adequate people, unlike you, say that it was different.
                        And to listen to you, everything was so bad! Are you not adequate?
                      46. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 18 August 2019 17: 35
                        0
                        I am fully adequate and ready for a constructive dialogue. But I'm not ready to listen to fairy tales.
                      47. free
                        free 19 August 2019 08: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        I am fully adequate and ready for a constructive dialogue. But I'm not ready to listen to fairy tales.

                        Nice to hear.
                    2. cradle
                      cradle 15 August 2019 07: 19
                      +1
                      offal is not paper and not in the highest category - no la la
                    3. Wolga
                      Wolga 15 August 2019 11: 11
                      +3
                      Read the same "soviet" GOSTs, after switching to different technical specifications, GOST - this is really the top quality! Will we consider the topic of flavoring additives from abroad? And how do you feel about the ingredients supplied from there with the marking "Only for use in the territory of the Russian Federation"? Have you ever tried the natural Finnish sweet butter "Valio" which is intended for sale in the EU and compared it with the "junk" that is sold in the Russian Federation? I worked in the food industry in the quality control laboratory for three years. The spreads according to the original (still Finnish) recipe included high-quality oils and emulsifiers. But as soon as production opens in the Russian Federation and for the Russian Federation, the recipes magically begin to contain a huge amount of memorable palm oil.
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 20 August 2019 13: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: Wolga
                        GOST is really the top quality!
                        -Yeah....
                        "Allowed in exchange (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) beef, pork, lamb sharing protein stabilizer, mass of beef or pork, or lamb, food plasma (serum) of blood, starch or wheat flour. "
                        Your vaunted "GOST 23670-79 Boiled sausages, sausages and small sausages, meat loaves" allows the use of everything without hitting INSTEAD meat

                        And also read the article in the magazine "Health" (№1 for 1989) - will be shocked at what really in the USSR did
            3. Nonna
              Nonna 14 August 2019 11: 45
              +7
              (Max) Your mother had to work, work hard, and not beat the thumbs, you are our anti-Soviet, then a soup with meat would be an apartment from an enterprise like mine. Whoever wanted to make money in the USSR was making money. I flew on watch from Krasnodar to the same Siberia. And rotten conversations about the "scoop" that you have not seen before your eyes betray you as a close-minded, spiteful, illiterate person. Learn and you will be happy
              1. Yury Siritsky
                Yury Siritsky 14 August 2019 12: 08
                +3
                Everything was right. It was necessary to work and everything would be. I worked decently for the machine and earned an apartment from the factory. So there is no need to smear the snot and nod at the soup without meat. It’s also necessary to invent such nonsense.
                1. Flamberg
                  Flamberg 15 August 2019 04: 24
                  -2
                  That's all that your world does not fit means nonsense? You at least with your narrow-mindedness are able to understand that in the scoop somewhere it was thick, but somewhere empty.
                  Here it is trite in the village where she came from and it was half a pig for the winter, the soup could have been without meat and it was normal by local standards. You can believe my words, or you can not believe me without a difference.
                  My mother worked and still works and lives well, having both a car and an apartment. And by the way, not an apartment, but she got a house at the end of the Soviet regime, I was 6 years old then. Prior to that, they lived in a flood without water, gas, with amenities in the yard ...
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 15 August 2019 05: 40
                    +2
                    Quote: Flamberg
                    half a pig for the winter,

                    How much do you think a half-pig slaughter weighs? Contradict yourself. Yes, there will be a kilogram of 8 fat with meat. Per month. Not enough for soup?
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 14 August 2019 13: 01
                0
                Quote: Nonna
                Your mom had to work, work hard, not beat the bacilli, you are our anti-adviser, then there would be meat and meat and the apartment from the enterprise was like mine. Those who wanted to earn money in the USSR earned it. I flew on rotations from Krasnodar to the same Siberia.

                Who told you that she worked less than you? Did you consider

                Or all the tens of millions of engineers, employees, sellers, teachers, etc. who received -100-150 rub-loafers?

                Or could all tens of millions fly on shifts or hobble on the construction of calf houses?

                The apartment, by the way, was turned back to the enterprise? It was not given into ownership, but granted under a lease (lease) agreement concluded with the owner of the dwelling-state. Or ... grabbed? Became ... privatebelay by the owner?

                So RETURN it to the state, BE CONSECUTIVE and live on -by order and contract of employment.
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 14 August 2019 13: 41
                  +3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Or all the tens of millions of engineers, employees, sellers, teachers, etc. who received -100-150 rub-loafers?

                  Or could all tens of millions fly on shifts or hobble on the construction of calf houses?

                  I could board a plane for a flock and fly to Moscow, and there was enough for a return ticket. For a hostel a year he paid 12 or 13 rubles, a dispensary, a sanatorium!
                2. Gardamir
                  Gardamir 14 August 2019 16: 48
                  +3
                  RETURN to her state
                  First return the State, and then in the federal state, you won’t find a job right away
                3. free
                  free 14 August 2019 21: 56
                  -1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Quote: Nonna
                  Your mom had to work, work hard, not beat the bacilli, you are our anti-adviser, then there would be meat and meat and the apartment from the enterprise was like mine. Those who wanted to earn money in the USSR earned it. I flew on rotations from Krasnodar to the same Siberia.

                  Who told you that she worked less than you? Did you consider

                  Or all the tens of millions of engineers, employees, sellers, teachers, etc. who received -100-150 rub-loafers?

                  Or could all tens of millions fly on shifts or hobble on the construction of calf houses?

                  The apartment, by the way, was turned back to the enterprise? It was not given into ownership, but granted under a lease (lease) agreement concluded with the owner of the dwelling-state. Or ... grabbed? Became ... privatebelay by the owner?

                  So RETURN it to the state, BE CONSECUTIVE and live on -by order and contract of employment.


                  Bring back Socialism to begin with.
              3. Bigbraza
                14 August 2019 13: 04
                0
                Quote: Nonna
                Your mom had to work, work hard, not beat the bacilli, you are our anti-adviser, then there would be meat and meat and the apartment from the enterprise was like mine. Those who wanted to earn money in the USSR earned it. I flew on rotations from Krasnodar to the same Siberia.

                but explain how your remark differs from Medvedev's proposal to teachers "to go into business"? It’s basically the same thing — now it’s business, then the north and the watch. that all teachers and doctors from the middle lane had to film and go for a long ruble?

                in fact, you can’t even imagine how well your remark confirms that in the USSR the people on average lived in poverty. and only those like you, "flying on watch", have succeeded a little.

                by the way. shift method of work was not very practiced in Soviet times. seasonal - yes. the shift was taken over from the USA and Canada after the collapse of the USSR. it seems to me, or are you just another network chatterbox, even not closely knowing what it’s trying to talk about?
                1. naidas
                  naidas 14 August 2019 23: 17
                  0
                  Quote: BigBraza
                  but explain how your remark differs from Medvedev's proposal to teachers "to go into business"?

                  It’s not the same thing. Trying a business without experience, money, or support is Medvedevsky’s.
                  But to work: I talked with one client, I worked at the thermal power station under the USSR, the salary without experience at the beginning was 500 rubles / month, and then up to 1500 rubles / month. And getting a job is not a problem, but there’s no way to manage salaries at times.
                  1. vlados
                    vlados 15 August 2019 01: 17
                    +1
                    In this case, your client is a balabol.
                    1. naidas
                      naidas 17 August 2019 16: 26
                      0
                      Quote: vlados
                      In this case, your client is a balabol.

                      I don’t know, Google, comets below are quite possible.
                  2. Bigbraza
                    15 August 2019 06: 37
                    -1
                    Quote: naidas
                    I talked with one client, worked at the CHPP in the USSR, salary without experience at the beginning of 500rub / month, and then to 1500rub / month.

                    clear. note - even the secretaries of the regional party committees did not have an official salary in 1500 in the USSR. even the allied ministers did not have so much.
                    Now it’s clear from what fairy tales the current myths about the great and beautiful USSR are formed ....
                    1. naidas
                      naidas 17 August 2019 16: 24
                      +1
                      Quote: BigBraza
                      note - did not have an official salary of 1500

                      I don’t know, to work in boiling water? Once I had enough on a pipe with 150 degrees.
                      And people about high salaries write:
                      2017-05-03 16:49:36 - Galina Petrovna Yablonskaya
                      I confirm. In our forestry enterprise, the director with the bonus did not receive more than 370 rubles, and the driver of the timber truck could receive 1200 with excellent output. She worked as the secretary of the Komsomol committee of the timber industry enterprise; she saw payments.

                      Comrade_Stalin Profi February 23, 2017
                      The familiar bulldozer in Deputatsky received 1200 rubles.


                      Veld Leonid Fedorov February 24, 2017
                      my father was a welder in the Soviet period, because he received a salary of 500-600 rubles without bonuses. Holidays were 1200-1500 enough for the whole family to go to sea.

                      Vladimir Nikolaevich February 24, 2017
                      I got a miner, 1099-1209 rubles,


                      Grau February 24, 2017
                      There were many excesses in the union.
                      Former Soviet carrier worked for me, in the USSR I was a long-range truck. 2 flights a month Nyurka-Yakutsk, he brought about 1000-1100 rubles of salary, vacation 2,5 months, sick leave, etc. According to him, it was easy to do the processing 1,5 times and get money in general at that time.
                      https://forum.ykt.ru/viewtopic.jsp?id=4161435
                      Moreover, miners can be noted: In 1980, a good miner could receive up to 1000 rubles, and record miners earned even more. (with the 13th, it turns out vacation time).
                      1. Bigbraza
                        17 August 2019 16: 50
                        0
                        Quote: naidas
                        Familiar bulldozer in Deputatsky

                        Deputatsky is a village in Yakutia. could well get it, because the season of the 6 months is maximum. the rest of the time he was sitting on a bare salary, working as a laborer or something like that.
                        all other positions are similar in one way or another - timber industry, long-range in Yakutia (yes, two flights, but each of them with a risk to life - stalled at -50, and can be beaten), miner. By the way, the salaries of miners became really big already under Gorbachev, then they liked populist decisions. Then we drove dump truck drivers up to 800 rubles, but after three or four years everything was covered with a copper basin.
                        Doubts are only about the welder. In the Far East or in the North, he could earn so much. In the middle lane, until the mid-eighties, 300 would have earned, well, a maximum of 400 rubles.
                      2. naidas
                        naidas 17 August 2019 17: 56
                        0
                        in general, this is a special case, there were also highly paid work in the USSR that few people went to. The topic was
                        Quote: BigBraza
                        but explain how your remark differs from Medvedev's proposal to teachers "to go into business"? It’s basically the same thing — now it’s business, then the north and the watch.

                        Quote: naidas
                        It’s not the same thing. Trying a business without experience, money, or support is Medvedevsky’s.
                2. Nonna
                  Nonna 18 August 2019 14: 48
                  0
                  V. Kuzovkov. Do not tell about teachers as well as about doctors — it is they who are under poverty in Putin's capitalism. The teacher’s salary in the small town of Khadyzhensk for 1981 was - the teacher, beginning. classes - 140-180 rubles, the rest from 180 to 270. The principal of the school is 380, the secretary is 80. Ticket Krasnodar - Moscow (plane) -50r. My husband worked as a lumberjack - from 800-1500r (Krasnodar Territory), and as a combine harvester in the season from (Volgograd) and a driller from 700 to 1500r (Siberia). The work is hard, but well paid. It is in life that a person himself chooses - eat empty bread and vegetate or work. In the USSR there was a choice, social and labor growth and the possibility of good earnings. By the way, my salary for 1983-86. amounted to 312 rubles. per month
            4. Fitter65
              Fitter65 14 August 2019 13: 36
              +1
              Quote: Flamberg
              Thanks for the sane comment. hi I asked my mother born in 1964 how did you live in the ussr good / bad? She says they lived poorly, but no matter how it was striking, everyone lived like that. She said that meatless soup was the norm. Perhaps who lived in big cities, those were different. But I come from a provincial Siberian town with 30 thousand inhabitants.

              Well, I was born in 1965 I lived in a Siberian village until I was 18 years old, and I can say one thing about soup without meat, I had to cook it once, though it was already at the end of the practice, the food ran out, and there was money left for the bus, to get to my mother to get some food. but in the 90s, when they didn’t give a salary for half a year, they grabbed such happiness with interest.
            5. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 14 August 2019 14: 42
              +5
              Quote: Flamberg
              She said that meatless soup was the norm. Perhaps who lived in big cities, those were different. But I come from a provincial Siberian town on 30 thousand inhabitants.

              Perhaps ... I will not argue .... I grew up in a simple working-class family, but I do not remember that we went hungry, I remember that we were fed with "no meat soup": milk-rice soup, milk noodles, milk porridge. .. Wherever we lived (and we lived, often in "villages" ...) at home there was always a vegetable garden, or even a pig ... (my grandmother was engaged in this ... my brother and I helped to the best of our ability). besides there was always fish! We lived on Sakhalin in villages through which spawning rivers flowed or on the seashore ... My father, a carpenter, always tried to make a boat. On a day off, my father and his friends went out to sea on his boat for fishing. The entire attic of our house was hung with dried fish, salted in barrels. It was possible to ride a bicycle to a "bucket" nearby, taking a "half liter" with you and bring a bag of Kamchatka crab ... No, we were not starving! And soups without meat, like cabbage soup, I still cook with pleasure, because "eating too much" at our age is harmful!
              1. Flamberg
                Flamberg 14 August 2019 16: 14
                -2
                God be with you, I’m not saying that they were starving.
            6. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 14 August 2019 15: 34
              -2
              I am born in 1963 I answer: well (if you can call it that) we lived in large cities. They lived on the periphery sucks (to put it stronger, alas, is impossible) Equality in poverty.
              1. naidas
                naidas 14 August 2019 23: 29
                0
                Quote: AS Ivanov.
                On the periphery they lived sucks

                It’s the same in different ways, the guys in the early 80s after they went to the Tatar village, told everything in their own way, and the spoon is in sour cream, not like in the city.
            7. Gardamir
              Gardamir 14 August 2019 16: 29
              +4
              mother born in 1964
              I was born in 1962 from a small town of 23 thousand. Meat was often eaten. For parents were an elite. Father in the summer was carpentry, in the winter he roamed. Mom is a nurse. And we had everything!
              1. Flamberg
                Flamberg 15 August 2019 04: 38
                -2
                So what? I am glad for you that specifically you had everything.
            8. naidas
              naidas 14 August 2019 23: 24
              0
              Quote: Flamberg
              She said that meatless soup was the norm.

              It happened to me when in the summer I sent a pension of 30 rubles to my grandfather. Soup in bags of 30 kopecks, Lump sugar -1,04 rubles. I had to cook cabbage soup from nettles.
            9. nesvobodnaja
              nesvobodnaja 16 August 2019 01: 41
              0
              Was meat-free soup the norm? )
              This is someone mixed up: then there were no vegans.))
        2. Keyser soze
          Keyser soze 14 August 2019 09: 36
          +9
          Cheap sausage, a communal apartment, public transport - this is what happiness is ...


          These are basic needs and they will always come first. But it’s not even the essence - now we have everything and a lot. But there is not one thing - a sense of justice and tranquility of life. Therefore, the scoop will always win, in comparison with the feudal capitalism in which we now live.
          1. Flamberg
            Flamberg 14 August 2019 09: 55
            0
            But there is not one thing - a sense of justice and tranquility of life.

            Blessed is he who does not know. Or from many knowledge many sorrows. In the USSR, censorship of news discrediting power would not be missed in any way.
            Yes, I largely agree with you. It seems to me that many of the troubles of our government are due to the fact that they have no competitors / opposition. Our liberal opposition is a bunch of clowns. The same trade unions exist ... I can’t even imagine why the hell they are needed in their current form.
            In Western countries, in power there are two or three forces that fight for voters. We have the same GDP and Edro do what they want.
            1. Keyser soze
              Keyser soze 14 August 2019 10: 01
              +3
              It seems to me that many of the troubles of our government are due to the fact that they have no competitors / opposition. Our liberal opposition is a bunch of clowns.


              Ladies, you are absolutely right. You do not have a normal position. By the way, we don’t have it either. But at least we can change power when we get sick.

              Liberalism in itself is a good thing, but the neoliberals who rule the world for the last 30 years have already annoyed almost everyone. The greed of the free market, the absence of power, the dying of the middle class even in Shchat, war is the achievement of neoliberals. This dictatorship is cleaner than the communist one. So liberals are clowns everywhere.
              1. Flamberg
                Flamberg 14 August 2019 10: 06
                -2
                Well, yes, the values ​​are now some kind of bad, tolerance in all fields, direct victory of reason over common sense. Now is the time of some mega-corporations, which only time will show will come of this.
              2. Old Michael
                Old Michael 14 August 2019 10: 45
                +3
                So neocons are no better than neoliberals. The gang is different, but the interests and methods are the same.
                1. Keyser soze
                  Keyser soze 14 August 2019 11: 33
                  +3
                  So neocons are no better than neoliberals. The gang is different, but the interests and methods are the same.


                  And that is true. And this is because we are used to thinking about the world in the categories of the 20 of that century, and now the liberals, the conservatives, are the same line. I judge by our and EU policies. Yes, right-wing governments (by name) operate populist, left-wing instruments and vice versa. In our country, the left government adopted (years ago) a flat tax, which is an absolutely conservative economic policy.

                  "right" and "left", as concepts flew to the buzz ... everyone uses them in their own interests. Yes, and the leftists themselves are one of them, we have others, and somewhere in France there are still others.
            2. parusnik
              parusnik 14 August 2019 11: 13
              +2
              In Western countries, in power there are two or three forces that fight for voters. We have the same GDP and Edro do what they want
              .Real power in Western countries and in Russia does not belong to those who own capital, but to those who manage these capital .... They also manage parties ...
            3. New Year day
              New Year day 14 August 2019 11: 27
              +2
              Quote: Flamberg
              We have the same GDP and Edro do what they want.

              in, damn it! Sensible words go! hi
              1. Gardamir
                Gardamir 14 August 2019 16: 55
                +1
                in, damn it! Sensible words go!
                Maybe senior comrades tweaked. And then the election of the minuses will not come out. Who will carry the good news about getting up from your knees.
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 14 August 2019 17: 05
                  +3
                  Quote: Gardamir
                  Maybe senior comrades tweaked. And then the election of the minuses will not come out.

                  started in a different way, and in the end, for the rest of the EP! Metamorphosis!
                  1. Flamberg
                    Flamberg 15 August 2019 05: 03
                    0
                    You carefully read what I write. And you will understand that I am not a supporter of any power, either Soviet or current. I do not deny the merits of the USSR, there was a lot of good there. But there was enough bad enough. A country capable of sending a person into space cannot create its own machine !!! How is that??? It copies Ariston from Italians !!! The best mass Soviet car fiat! I quoted my mother as she lived in the village, so they tell me that I came up with nonsense.
                    It just annoys me when someone forgives the USSR saying so immediately a crowd of adherents cries out, shouting education, apartments, sausage !!!
        3. aksakal
          aksakal 14 August 2019 12: 15
          +9
          Dear, in the USSR, all this had a person who was just starting his professional career and due to this, he did not have this very professionalism, and simply even life experience and therefore helpless ... And, believe me, who went through this, and cheap sausage, for which, however, had to wait a little in line, but for a mad dog 10 km is not a hook, and a well-functioning public transport, and a room in a communal apartment, while the queue for an apartment comes up - it all HELPED great. This is fair. For young specialists now all this is not. These worries fell on the parents, and this, again, from my own experience. Nonesh parents, unlike mine, have to pull the child up to thirty years old, providing both sausage, and renting an apartment, and transport, until the child gets stronger and gets on his feet. Okay, this is all good, but what should those young specialists do, whose parents cannot help because of their health? Or do they live far away, and the specialty of a young specialist allows you to work and live only in this city? Here's one more reason for the low birth rate ... Once you pull up to thirty, then we will give birth to only two ... And what are two children, taking into account the mortality rate from accidents, diseases, etc. This is in its pure form population decline. So, 2 dear "Flamberg, don't blame me, minus you from me ... For you need to think with your head, and not scornfully snort a sausage on emotions.
          1. Flamberg
            Flamberg 15 August 2019 05: 14
            0
            But again, there is a BUT. The apartment is not yours, they can give it to you in the wrong place where you would like, and not the apartment you would like. For free, yes. Think for yourself with your head ...
            1. Wolga
              Wolga 15 August 2019 12: 00
              +4
              Do not exaggerate ... Does the apartment now belong to the mortgage owner or the bank? In the USSR, municipal housing was often taken away from a tenant? In the USSR, there were economic crises leading to bankruptcy and the loss of all of the above? Flamberg, most of the respondents who are nostalgic for the USSR, are not geniuses or millionaires. The majority of the population of that country is impressed by the stability and sense of security that that state gave. Understand that most people do not need career ups and billions in salaries, they just want to live and raise children, and do it as planned. In the USSR, as rightly said earlier, an ordinary child had a bunch of social lifts, which were limited only by the "head". At the same time, the choice was large enough, if you want to be an engineering technician, you have a head, welcome to the university. There is ambition and a "throat" - move along the party line, there is a desire to just work with your hands - PTU and others like that. There is a desire for adventure and a long ruble - welcome to the North! People like the USSR because there was stability and vectors of development that were available to every person, depending on his needs, and are absolutely understandable. Yes, for some, planning and phasing is boring, for most it is the norm.
              1. Flamberg
                Flamberg 15 August 2019 12: 38
                0
                There is a nuance, nostalgia and wanting back is not the same thing. Whoever has a head, as you put it, will now be settled better than with an alliance.
                I will not argue with the obvious, the basic needs of the alliance were guaranteed to everyone and everything was stable, which is already quite enough, especially against the background of the crises that have fallen to our lot. In general, if you compare the Union with the current Russia, then everything will be very ambiguous. But if you compare the Union with the ideological enemy of the United States, at that time, then the UNION definitely loses, and in so doing. Of course, you may not agree with me, but if you and I begin to understand in detail what was available to the Soviet person and what was American, then everything will immediately fall into place. Do not forget that it was the union that was totally enclosed by censorship. It was the ignorance of the fact that scarce goods and luxury goods may not be such at all, which made the life of Soviet people not happy at all. As my mother says, naturally, from the point of view of afterglow, in her youth they didn’t live richly, but they were happy ... everyone lived like that.
        4. grandson of Perun
          grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 13: 05
          +4
          Are you trying to convince that:
          - meat sausage, affordable communal services and public transport, free medicine-education-housing - this is bad
          - and "sausage" from GMO soybeans, bonded mortgage and kilometer-long plugs of credit basins are good
          ?? what
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 14 August 2019 15: 38
            -3
            Sausage from meat ... Then there was no other technology, therefore it was from meat. But food pulp was already put in sausage. If the Union existed for another 10 years, and in it sausages would more than fully consist of chyme. Technological progress, however.
            1. grandson of Perun
              grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 15: 48
              +5
              Quote: AS Ivanov.
              Sausage from meat ... Then there were no other technologies

              Then there was no technology, but there was no arrogance of producers who ersatz from soy and palm oil (or even worse) give out as natural products.
              No wonder modern marketers write on the packaging in large letters GOST, because it is a synonym for quality.
              1. Doctorleg
                Doctorleg 14 August 2019 19: 21
                +1
                Well, I also remember products from the USSR. And they were different. I don't know what the Ostankino dumplings were made of, but they could only be eaten out of hunger. And the sausage is also different - they bought for 2.20 only because of lack of money, tried to find it for 2.90. But the top had other products. It was not for nothing that there was a "Mikoyan" workshop. We knew who received rations with such a sausage - it tastes completely different! And the sausages are the same. Why did the management start a separate workshop if the rest of the products met a high standard? And the prices for them were different. They had special books with coupons - breakfast, lunch, dinner, and they could buy goods for ridiculous money. Speaking of prices - prices were not low. it was just that their structure was different. Decent sausage was at 2.90. How much could a doctor with a salary of 150-200 rubles buy it? 51-68 kg. Today it costs 600 rubles (and if you're lucky with discounts, then 300-400). Those. to buy 51 kg you need 31000 (and with a discount of 15000) rubles. It's the same with gasoline. I found the price of the 92nd at 30 and 40 kopecks. You can count yourself. Therefore, everyone tried to remake the cars for 76, or even better buy from the ZIL driver. Transport was cheap - it's true. 5 kopecks metro, 4 - trolleybus, 3 - tram. Those. in a loaf of bread for 16 kopecks there were 3 trips on the metro, in sausage - almost 58. Now the metro has a maximum of 38 rubles - more than the price of a loaf. By the way, about perfectly working transport - I remember well the packed buses and trolleybuses, which still had to wait. And the trip in a cold bus 40-50 to the hospital, because the metro only came to that area in 2000. Many write about the world's best free medicine. Only for some reason, the leadership arranged for itself a separate department of the Ministry of Health, the financing of which was much better, many had departmental hospitals (and they were better), as well as sanatoriums. The same applies to medicines, which in the 4th department were imported from the damned West. In the same place, I first saw disposable syringes that pricked normally, normal dentistry. In general, there was no equality. And it's not just about the top. “Ordinary” people also had different opportunities, depending on where they worked - some had orders (which were also different) and the opportunity to get an apartment, a short queue for a car and a ticket to a good holiday home, others did not. And about studying at the institute - what equality can there be if, in order to enter a good university for a demanded specialty, it was necessary either to have a pull or to go to tutors, which was very expensive. And the quality of education in rural schools suffered. And the universities are simpler and now you can easily enter the budget.
                And it seems to me that people were more outraged not even by inequality per se, but by the hypocrisy of the authorities. When from the rostrum and in the newspapers one thing, but in life differently. Even in the films of those years, this erupts.
                Well, in general, you can talk about it for a long time. And so, yes. We were young and healthy, and the girls were beautiful!
                1. grandson of Perun
                  grandson of Perun 14 August 2019 21: 03
                  0
                  Normal sausage was 2-20. With pleasure I made sandwiches from it.
                  To enter the university yourself on the budget is now not at all easier than in the USSR.
                  And as for the fact that the nomenclature of the USSR arranged for itself privileges (what it was - it was), so these privileges are simply ridiculous in comparison with the luxury of modern nomenclature.
                  By the way, if in the USSR a functionary would try to snatch himself more than what he is entitled to by status, he would face serious punishment. Unlike now.
                2. Flamberg
                  Flamberg 15 August 2019 06: 39
                  -2
                  Only now nostalgic about the scoop for some reason they do not remember. laughing
                  1. grandson of Perun
                    grandson of Perun 15 August 2019 09: 47
                    0
                    Quote: Flamberg
                    nostalgic about scoop

                    Not about the "scoop", but about a state with a social system much more just than current capitalism.
                    PS: Are you getting paid for every spit. It seems clear yesterday about the "scoop" and Russophobia explained.
                    1. Flamberg
                      Flamberg 15 August 2019 09: 53
                      -3
                      Not about the "scoop", but about a state with a social system much more just than current capitalism.
                      This is in theory, in practice it was different.
                      PS: Are you getting paid for every spit. It seems clear yesterday about the "scoop" and Russophobia explained.
                      No. Out of natural harm, I poke scoops into the shortcomings of the scoop that you do not want to notice at point blank range.
                      1. grandson of Perun
                        grandson of Perun 15 August 2019 10: 12
                        0
                        Minus for insults.
                      2. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 15 August 2019 10: 21
                        -1
                        Yes, at least get angry. History will remain history, but the truth is true.
                3. nesvobodnaja
                  nesvobodnaja 16 August 2019 02: 10
                  0
                  The separate department of the Ministry of Health did not guarantee absolute quality and unconditional high qualification of the personnel. Blat in the system often didn’t play a better role, and in an ordinary clinical hospital they could have done a much better complex operation, for example.
          2. Flamberg
            Flamberg 15 August 2019 05: 33
            -1
            Bad is the lack of choice.
            a "sausage" from GMO soy

            Grandma's tales ....
            bonded mortgage

            And why is she bonded? Yes, in general, the apartment that you yourself have chosen and it is yours in the future.
            kilometer traffic jams of credit basins

            And then the bad thing is that the car has turned from luxury into a means of transportation? And for kilometer traffic jams and the lack of parking, I must thank the Soviet authorities, who believed that a luxury car and a citizen in their mass should dream of a car, and not have it. From that, the roads are not designed for such an amount of transport.
            1. grandson of Perun
              grandson of Perun 15 August 2019 10: 05
              0
              Quote: Flamberg
              And why is she bonded?

              These are the basics of economics. Isn't that what they teach at school? Then this is another comparison not in favor of capitalist Russia.
              Mortgage calculator to help you.

              Quote: Flamberg
              believed that a luxury car and a citizen in its entirety should dream about a car, and not have it

              She believed, and correctly believed, that one, two or three buses would carry as many people as there were passenger cars in a kilometer jam. At the same time, transportation costs (fuel and lubricants costs, cost of vehicles, environmental damage) by buses are orders of magnitude lower.
              Your reasoning is the reasoning of the representative of the consumer society. As a consumer (sorry for the abusive word) you do not think about how it would be better all. You only think about your own comfort, even if due to debt slavery in the bank.
              1. Flamberg
                Flamberg 15 August 2019 10: 13
                -1
                These are the basics of economics. Isn't that what they teach at school? Then this is another comparison not in favor of capitalist Russia.
                Mortgage calculator to help you.

                What kind of economy? Scoop? laughing Do not tell my slippers and do not give out your thoughts for truth.
                She believed, and correctly believed, that one, two or three buses would carry as many people as there were passenger cars in a kilometer jam. At the same time, transportation costs (fuel and lubricants costs, cost of vehicles, environmental damage) by buses are orders of magnitude lower.
                Your reasoning is the reasoning of the representative of the consumer society. As a consumer (sorry for the abusive word) you do not think about how it would be better for everyone. You only think about your own comfort, even if due to debt slavery in the bank.

                So all people are selfish bastards by nature. You do not tell me your highly moral nonsense.
                1. grandson of Perun
                  grandson of Perun 15 August 2019 11: 24
                  0
                  Another minus for insults.

                  Quote: Flamberg
                  all people are selfish bastards by nature

                  Do not judge all by yourself.
                  However, I also told you this. And also to no avail.

                  I see no reason for continuing the conversation further. There were Russophobes and more interesting ...
                  1. Flamberg
                    Flamberg 15 August 2019 11: 33
                    0
                    Do not judge all by yourself.
                    However, I also told you this. And also to no avail.

                    Live on in your little world.
      2. Gardamir
        Gardamir 14 August 2019 07: 57
        +8
        about whether it was good or bad,
        Then did not hesitate to be honest decent. Now there are enough cars in the yards ..
        1. depressant
          depressant 14 August 2019 11: 27
          +7
          Here, finally, the conversation entered a worthy channel. A huge, sparkling idea, having lifted our people to unprecedented spiritual heights - those who wanted it, and those who did not want it, but were picked up and involved in its mass, once swept across the country in a cleansing wave, causing admiration and horror in the rest of the world. In those ascended to its summit, it caused an unprecedented surge of romanticism, dedication and creative abilities - remember the great Soviet art, literature, science, achievements in space, in the development of the country's territory. In others, with black or weak souls, who sank to the bottom under its weight, the desire to survive at any cost, to kill romanticism is what makes a person a true person, to impose on everyone his own little, vulgar idea of ​​a person as a devouring bacteria. They were helped. The war has come. A huge mass of creators evaporated in its fire. Rest in Peace! Eternal glory to you! But I just want to shout: "Stop lying! Get up! Eight million best sons of the Motherland, hear me! Stand by my side, support with your strength!" For my spirit weakens in the midst of unbearable vulgarity, which determines the value of a person by the amount of food and other material wealth available to him ...
          Do not get up. They did their job. And there are very few remaining and newcomers who are ready for spiritual achievement. Farewell, the great era of valor and glory ... The wave died out. Crashed into drops, it seeped through the sand of historical time.
          But I picked up a drop and hold it in my palm. It does not evaporate and does not go out - it glows!
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 14 August 2019 12: 20
            +4
            Quote: depressant
            Here, finally, the conversation entered a worthy channel. A huge, sparkling idea, having lifted our people to unprecedented spiritual heights - those who wanted it, and those who did not want it, but were picked up and involved in its mass, once swept across the country in a cleansing wave, causing admiration and horror in the rest of the world. In those ascended to its summit, it caused an unprecedented surge of romanticism, dedication and creative abilities - remember the great Soviet art, literature, science, achievements in space, in the development of the country's territory. In others, with black or weak souls, who sank to the bottom under its weight, the desire to survive at any cost, to kill romanticism is what makes a person a true person, to impose on everyone his own little, vulgar idea of ​​a person as a devouring bacteria. They were helped. The war has come. A huge mass of creators evaporated in its fire. Rest in Peace! Eternal glory to you! But I just want to shout: "Stop lying! Get up! Eight million best sons of the Motherland, hear me! Stand by my side, support with your strength!" For my spirit weakens in the midst of unbearable vulgarity, which determines the value of a person by the amount of food and other material wealth available to him ...
            Do not get up. They did their job. And there are very few remaining and newcomers who are ready for spiritual achievement. Farewell, the great era of valor and glory ... The wave died out. Crashed into drops, it seeped through the sand of historical time.
            But I picked up a drop and hold it in my palm. It does not evaporate and does not go out - it glows!

            well said, well done! You cannot return the past, you need to live in the present and, to the extent possible and your strength, improve this present with your honest work, intolerance to all manifestations of lack of culture and all possible help to those in need.
          2. free
            free 14 August 2019 22: 01
            -2
            Quote: depressant
            Here, finally, the conversation entered a worthy channel. A huge, sparkling idea, having lifted our people to unprecedented spiritual heights - those who wanted it, and those who did not want it, but were picked up and involved in its mass, once swept across the country in a cleansing wave, causing admiration and horror in the rest of the world. In those ascended to its summit, it caused an unprecedented surge of romanticism, dedication and creative abilities - remember the great Soviet art, literature, science, achievements in space, in the development of the country's territory. In others, with black or weak souls, who sank to the bottom under its weight, the desire to survive at any cost, to kill romanticism is what makes a person a true person, to impose on everyone his own little, vulgar idea of ​​a person as a devouring bacteria. They were helped. The war has come. A huge mass of creators evaporated in its fire. Rest in Peace! Eternal glory to you! But I just want to shout: "Stop lying! Get up! Eight million best sons of the Motherland, hear me! Stand by my side, support with your strength!" For my spirit weakens in the midst of unbearable vulgarity, which determines the value of a person by the amount of food and other material wealth available to him ...
            Do not get up. They did their job. And there are very few remaining and newcomers who are ready for spiritual achievement. Farewell, the great era of valor and glory ... The wave died out. Crashed into drops, it seeped through the sand of historical time.
            But I picked up a drop and hold it in my palm. It does not evaporate and does not go out - it glows!


            Bravo! Keep it up!
    4. Vend
      Vend 14 August 2019 10: 30
      +2
      There is no return either to the USSR or to the Russian Empire until the 1917 year, one must live in real Russia, and not in recollections of past greatness
      1. Old Michael
        Old Michael 14 August 2019 10: 53
        +6
        one must live in real Russia, and not in memories of past greatness

        And it’s also useful to think about the future of Russia. You say - just thinking is not enough, you have to do the same. Of course, but for this it is necessary to have at least some model of this bright future.
        So most of us, current ones, can work for this future only by caring for their subordinates, instilling in them an appropriate worldview, and proper education of their own children.
        1. Vend
          Vend 14 August 2019 11: 28
          0
          Quote: OldMichael
          one must live in real Russia, and not in memories of past greatness

          And it’s also useful to think about the future of Russia. You say - just thinking is not enough, you have to do the same. Of course, but for this it is necessary to have at least some model of this bright future.
          So most of us, current ones, can work for this future only by caring for their subordinates, instilling in them an appropriate worldview, and proper education of their own children.

          I agree with you
    5. Vasya Pupenko
      Vasya Pupenko 15 August 2019 14: 07
      0
      Yes, there was no one to compose a prot $ 200 billion Putin.
  2. Far B
    Far B 14 August 2019 05: 26
    +18
    Something about the author's confusion: first, we are talking about the 70-80s, then over the late period of the USSR. The late period is, after all, the Gorbachev movement. It, of course, did not grow out of nowhere, but nevertheless, the Brezhnev USSR is not yet "late". It's like a historical
    1. Rwmos
      Rwmos 14 August 2019 05: 42
      +2
      Late Brezhnev - just ditching the stagnation of the USSR - a complete failure in all areas, and it is precisely the departure of the "ilita" from the people. Gorbachev is the result of just the late Brezhnev.
      1. rayruav
        rayruav 14 August 2019 06: 34
        +17
        Yes, of course, stagnation, in this stagnation, weapons were created or began to be developed that now protect us and, in general, Soviet science developed quite dynamically
        1. Doctorleg
          Doctorleg 14 August 2019 19: 28
          0
          Weapons can neither be eaten nor put on. A huge number of tanks and other scrap metal tore the country. We say that the USSR had the second economy of the world, but how many weapons and other defensive articles were in this GDP. They were hidden behind completely innocent names. The plants had an encumbrance in the form of a mob. resources. But these expenses do not lead to further economic growth - this is not infrastructure and do not satisfy the demand of the population.
      2. Gardamir
        Gardamir 14 August 2019 07: 58
        +8
        the result of just late Brezhnev.
        I wonder what the late Putin will leave?
        1. lis-ik
          lis-ik 14 August 2019 08: 36
          +9
          Quote: Gardamir
          the result of just late Brezhnev.
          I wonder what the late Putin will leave?

          He will not leave anything; he will take everything with him.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 14 August 2019 11: 28
          +2
          Quote: Gardamir
          I wonder what the late Putin will leave?

          that Gorbachev
      3. New Year day
        New Year day 14 August 2019 11: 28
        +4
        Quote: RWMos
        stagnation - a complete failure in all areas

        and due to what country now lives? What new have created, unlike the USSR?
        1. Rwmos
          Rwmos 14 August 2019 15: 14
          -2
          For example, yesterday there was news about a nuclear tractor ... But when Brezhnev had already begun - window dressing. Paint and call overpower.
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 14 August 2019 15: 20
            +3
            Quote: RWMos
            For example, yesterday there was news about a nuclear tractor ...

            Last year, Chubais invented an electricopedic for 200 thousand, but do you need it?
      4. RAE8
        RAE8 14 August 2019 13: 06
        0
        Quote: RWMos
        Late Brezhnev - just ditching the stagnation of the USSR - a complete failure in all areas, and it is precisely the departure of the "ilita" from the people.

        Brezhnev, at least late, albeit early, continued the line of "Khrushchev" socialism, where, unlike "Stalinist" socialism, private traders, artels and cooperatives were almost completely eliminated. And all state enterprises were commanded by the party bureaucracy. Now many do not understand this, but then the enterprises did not produce products, they fulfilled the planned indicators, often absurd, released from Moscow (yes, even though it seems to be nonsense). And then the crazy oil money came and the intensive development of production rested only on enthusiasts, as opposed to the system.
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 14 August 2019 06: 30
      +12
      The author generally has porridge in his head, it should be written like this:
      while an ordinary Soviet employee should have been very lucky to become the owner of the coveted ticket to the departmental or trade union sanatorium in Crimea.
      We went on trips and savages, as now, but not every year.
      1. nesvobodnaja
        nesvobodnaja 16 August 2019 10: 47
        0
        Many departments went on union vouchers annually.
    3. A.Lex
      A.Lex 14 August 2019 07: 21
      +11
      Michael, the author of another simple truth can not understand.
      Take for comparison with the country of man. To make it absolutely clear, let’s draw a parallel: a healthy person is a healthy country, a sick person is a sick country. And now the main thing:
      In order to destroy a disease in a person, you need to kill him? The author welcomes exactly this in his article. But this is exactly what they did to the country!
      1. mikh-korsakov
        mikh-korsakov 14 August 2019 07: 43
        +21
        For me personally, the most disturbing thing is that the situation in the country reminds me more and more of what it was during the late USSR. Power becomes unstable, in my opinion, when it firstly begins to lie to the people, and secondly. then when it gets weak. Under the USSR, they lied to the people about the bright advent of communism, but this did not anger the people any more - it was like an obligatory addition to the food set, say. sprat in tomato. But then the power began to shake itself by the struggle within itself. What is the openly discussed enmity between Yeltsin and Gorbachev, for some reason they began to grind Stalin's bones, although the XX Congress had already condemned everything, the Government and the Supreme Council openly argued about the need to raise prices - the result was swept off the shelves of the latter. The people saw all this and spat on this power - which, when leaving, took away with it a great country. Now the authorities have begun to lie on an unprecedented scale. It looks like Putin is sitting in some kind of cocoon. He would have to explain himself to the people, and he is playing more and more at the diver. then into a motorcyclist. And the power is weakening. But the result will be worse than in the nineties. The hegemon will close all the possibilities even to think about all sorts of "nonsense" like getting up from your knees. The blame is on Putin - he gave the people hope, and then, when it began to bake, he withdrew. It's not godly. Lure and quit.
        1. A.Lex
          A.Lex 14 August 2019 07: 47
          -3
          Michael, but for me it’s completely different! The authorities see that the people endure all this demshiza and kreaklovaya liberda - that’s not itching! The people suffer while they rob and, again, the government does not itch. Everything is very simple! That's when the representatives of this belolentnoy abomination will begin to beat slowly, and even multiply by the backwoods - then ... This is purely my opinion.
        2. AK1972
          AK1972 14 August 2019 09: 14
          +7
          Quote: mikh-korsakov
          For me personally, the most disturbing thing is that the situation in the country more and more reminds me of what happened during the late USSR.

          I completely agree with Mikhail. The similarity can be seen in the age of the rulers. Brezhnev has been like a zombie in recent years. I remember the phrase from the ditty "Even, thick eyebrows, long empty speeches, no tights, no sweets. Why do we need this grandfather?" Then the patient in all organs of Andropov. I am generally silent about Chernenko. As a result, when a young (compared to the gerontocrats) Gorbachev came to power, the people, tired of the Kremlin elders, were delighted, and he took, and finished off the state. And now, for example, my adult children do not know the president, except for Putin. They don't watch TV, and they probably do it right. Explain to them that Navalny Ch.M.O. corrupt is useless. They simply ask: "Where is he wrong?" And by the way, they vote. Do you think they will vote for Putin and United Russia?
          1. mikh-korsakov
            mikh-korsakov 14 August 2019 10: 42
            +6
            AK1972... As for Navalny, I agree - this is the beast who wants to come to power, accelerating the decomposition of the previous one. But nothing good will come of him. It's just that other faces will start flashing on TV - that's all for the people. But I will stand up for Brezhnev. Until 1975-76. was a normal ruler. In 1976 he turned 70 and had a second heart attack. This is 70. It was then that only he was moved by his mind, fell in love with kisses with Honecker, chest in orders, etc. But at the same time, he saved the country, although he spoiled it. Our current one is still 66. And he is already playing. That into the diver. then the boyars ride a motorcycle. He listens to the boyars, - in our province everything blooms to him and smells of roses - and he is to them. "Okay, but you have to try harder." How do we succeed - the rulers begin for health, and finish - at least take out the saints.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 14 August 2019 11: 37
              +3
              Quote: mikh-korsakov
              As for Navalny, I agree - this is such a beast that wants to come to power, accelerating the decomposition of the previous one.

              correctly said, such emerge when there is no real opposition to power. How was it during the Union? Dissatisfied listened to the Foreign countries, now Navalny. But the authorities didn’t steal anything to attack Navalny’s attacks, they became bronzed
          2. AUL
            AUL 14 August 2019 11: 02
            0
            Quote: AK1972
            Explain to them that Navalny Ch.M.O. corrupt is useless. They simply ask: "Where is he wrong?"

            And what do you answer them with? What is he - MF?
            1. AK1972
              AK1972 14 August 2019 12: 37
              +4
              I tried to tell that the sources of his financing are overseas, that the purpose of his protests is not the fight against corruption, but now I’m not saying anything, and the children don’t drown for Navalny. They say - if he slanders Medvedev, then why will not DAM refute and sue? If it does not refute, then everything is true. And I have nothing to object to, and I don’t want to.
          3. nesvobodnaja
            nesvobodnaja 16 August 2019 10: 53
            0
            Was there any delight from Gorbachev ... At first he was interested, apparently, but very soon he made it clear with lengthy "collective farm" speeches that the path to communism led into a swamp.
        3. parusnik
          parusnik 14 August 2019 11: 18
          +1
          What is the openly discussed feud between Yeltsin and Gorbachev
          ... And what is the XVIII last Congress of the CPSU? It was won by those who later became in power ...
        4. New Year day
          New Year day 14 August 2019 11: 35
          +4
          Quote: mikh-korsakov
          ... the situation in the country more and more reminds me of what happened during the late USSR.

          so in power the pupils of the CPSU, they can’t think differently, only ..
          Quote: mikh-korsakov
          ... lie to the people ...

          Quote: mikh-korsakov
          The people saw all this and spat on this power - which, leaving, took away a great country. Now the authorities began to lie on an unprecedented scale.

          and soon the people will also spit on her, the close ones will rush over the hill (everything is already prepared there), and the people will remain. Zolotovtsy will not save the power, if 2-3 million people or their equivalent will catch fire, then they will be fucked. "Color revolutions" took place when at least 1 million took to the streets. Any attempt to resist would end in blood, and then Russia rushed over bumps. BUT the authorities stubbornly continue to escalate the situation, provoking and taking away the rights. If before everyone needed sausage, then after eating, people reached out for the truth. But the truth is an expensive thing.
      2. Vladimir Teplov
        Vladimir Teplov 14 August 2019 07: 51
        +13
        The author still can’t understand that previously there were no working poor and the worker was in the local trade union committee, the council of the labor collective and the prosecutor and the person needed the state, and now it is needed only for tax collection, and there were considerable pensions and the retirement age, and now the country is scammers and kidalovo
        1. RAE8
          RAE8 14 August 2019 13: 32
          -2
          Quote: Vladimir Teplov
          The author still cannot understand that the poor were not working before and that the council of the labor collective and the prosecutor stood for the worker in the local trade union committee and the state needed the person

          Did you watch this in the movies? Yes, many good films were shot in the USSR, but they often expressed a dream, and did not reflect reality. Then it was directly said who the All-Union Central Council of Trade Unions was under the CPSU. The state needed not a man, but a healthy average unit with an ideologically correct worldview.
          1. Vladimir Teplov
            Vladimir Teplov 14 August 2019 19: 36
            +5
            And here are the films? I lived and worked at that time and now and compare the facts. At that time there were building cooperatives and there were no deceived equity holders as there was no black and white salary now. The products were affordable and quality. Before the salary, I could borrow three rubles and in the movie about Athos there was such a monologue. Afonya owed me a ruble. All this happened in life. And now we have the country of kidalov on salary for pensions for interest-holders for housing and communal services in compulsory motor liability insurance for judicial decisions and so on
            1. RAE8
              RAE8 15 August 2019 04: 27
              0
              I also know life in the USSR not by hearsay.
              Quote: Vladimir Teplov
              There were building cooperatives at that time

              Not always, not everywhere, and they still had to get into them.
              Quote: Vladimir Teplov
              there were no deceived equity holders as now there was no black and white salary

              Quote: Vladimir Teplov
              Before the salary, I could borrow three rubles and in the movie about Athos there was such a monologue. Afonya owed me a ruble. All this happened in life. And now we have the country of kidalov on salary for pensions for interest-holders for housing and communal services in compulsory motor liability insurance for judicial decisions

              I agree in many ways.
              Quote: Vladimir Teplov
              Products were available

              ??????? Why lie to yourself? So the truth will never be achieved anywhere.
              1. Vladimir Teplov
                Vladimir Teplov 15 August 2019 09: 39
                +2
                Each government has its pluses and minuses, and if for someone it is a plus then for another it is a minus.For example, now people in power can steal from the budget and not be punished for it, while judges and prosecutors go drunk to crush people and bear responsibility for it. Order must be in power and why is it impossible from the USSR all that was good there? And what is happening now looks like an organized mess
                1. RAE8
                  RAE8 15 August 2019 17: 19
                  0
                  Quote: Vladimir Teplov
                  Each government has its pluses and minuses, and if for someone it is a plus then for another it is a minus.For example, now people in power can steal from the budget and not be punished for it, while judges and prosecutors go drunk to crush people and bear responsibility for it. Order must be in power and why is it impossible from the USSR all that was good there?

                  I totally agree.
                  Communist social ideas themselves are magnificent, but their competent implementation is also necessary. And when an unwise person begins to rule a totalitarian state, then “Khrushchev's” socialism comes out with a total deficit, and then the state collapses naturally. Therefore, uncritical praise of the USSR is the praise of a state that has crashed.
    4. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 14 August 2019 08: 26
      +6
      Quote: Dalny V
      Something confusion with the author: first, it was about the 70-80s, then for the late period of the USSR.

      The author has one inaccuracy in the title. It should not be:
      Return to the USSR. Is there no turning back?
      a:
      Return to socialism. Is there a way back?
      It was in the misfortune that the "former" brothers and sisters "were recognized ...
      As they said, I'd rather be an orphan - "why do I need such relatives?" feel
  3. silver169
    silver169 14 August 2019 05: 30
    -13
    Everyone who advocates a return to the "happy" socialist past should think about whether Russia will survive another redistribution of property and another civil war? Your country has the greatest margin of safety, but it also has its limit. In addition, if the communists come to power again, where is the guarantee that they will be better than Yeltsin, Gorbachev and other traitors who have made a strong career in the Communist Party?
    1. Far B
      Far B 14 August 2019 05: 56
      +12
      And where did you get the idea that there will be another civil war? Do you think there are many who want to fight for the yachts of the Abramovich / Rotenberg and the palaces of the bills of exchange / Friedman? Deripaska himself is unlikely to become a weapon in the hands of his property from redistribution)
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 14 August 2019 06: 12
        -1
        what do their yachts have to do with it? do you really think that only all of this will affect them? Do you think that I, for example, whose car is for 5 million better than them for someone who has barely enough money for viburnum? This is a snowball that will swept through all. because everyone wants what they don’t have, but they don’t need complicated paths. pick everything up and share this is how it will be. so I have no doubt that the civil war is not a fantastic scenario.
        1. Far B
          Far B 14 August 2019 06: 15
          0
          Do you really think this
          this is a snowball that will swept all over
          ? What is your evidence?
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 14 August 2019 06: 28
            +1
            evidence of my confidence in this? these are the laws of life. people always want to live better. someone rushing and seeking and someone sitting at home and in the evenings at a beer curses everyone that he has a bad life. that the neighbor is a thief because he has an expensive car and not one. and when all this begins he will not go to the Deripaska but to the neighbor. and then he will go to his superiors, who also live better. and this marginal mass will start a civil war. because nobody will give anything to him voluntarily.
            1. Far B
              Far B 14 August 2019 06: 37
              +5
              Have you read the laws of life somewhere? Give me a read? Always dreamed.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 14 August 2019 06: 44
                -8
                everyone wants what they don’t have. it has always been and always will be.
                1. Far B
                  Far B 14 August 2019 06: 48
                  +1
                  Guru. I bow down.
                  However. This morning, Demi Moore was not in my bed. And I don’t want her to be there. What to do with this?
                  I do not have ringworm, and I do not want to have it. What to do with this?
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 14 August 2019 07: 02
                    -3
                    sense of humor woke up? the fact that you didn’t have Demi Moore in bed does not mean that you don’t want someone else who is not available to you.
                  2. Nikolaevich I
                    Nikolaevich I 14 August 2019 14: 49
                    0
                    Quote: Dalny V
                    This morning, Demi Moore was not in my bed. And I don’t want her to be there. What to do with this?

                    It happens! I also often look at the girls, and then try to remember: for what?
                2. WIKI
                  WIKI 14 August 2019 11: 49
                  0
                  Quote: carstorm 11
                  everyone wants what they don’t have. it has always been and always will be.

                  Everyone wants everyone to have everything, but just for that, other laws are needed .. As an example, the introduction of a progressive taxation scale.
              2. Cottodraton
                Cottodraton 14 August 2019 06: 58
                +4
                If you do not understand such simple truths, then do not try to read more difficult "Kolobok"
                1. Far B
                  Far B 14 August 2019 07: 17
                  -2
                  Your arrogance smiles incredibly laughing Well, how can I fall asleep to my sense of humor?
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 14 August 2019 07: 24
                    -1
                    arrogance? you are apparently in some sort of your reality, for you see what only you can understand. and you can ulcerate as much as you like. I just defend my point. and I do not impose it on you.
                    1. Far B
                      Far B 14 August 2019 08: 03
                      +8
                      If you do not understand such simple truths, then do not try to read more difficult "Kolobok"
                      everyone wants what they don’t have. it has always been and always will be.
                      You are uttering what you consider to be truth, an absolutely unquestioned, mentor tone. This is called arrogance: the first point - I am always right, and if I'm wrong, then see the first point. Although all your truths are absolutely subjective, you measure everything on your own. You wish to squeeze a new car from your neighbor on occasion - and you think that everyone around you wants the same. Yes nifiga like that. Many do not want billions of Abramovich - and the buntings associated with this. Many do not want to sit at the helm of a fighter, although it is probably great to rush among the clouds at a speed higher than the speed of sound. Many do not want to be leaders - because this is an awesome responsibility (in theory, at least). Many do not have much, but this does not mean that those who don’t have something necessarily want to get it. So your
                      everyone wants what they don’t have
                      with real life has little in common. Do not be so arrogant and funny, I beg. Do not measure all by yourself.
                      Py.Sy. And "Kolobok" - why didn't you please?
                      1. carstorm 11
                        carstorm 11 14 August 2019 08: 34
                        -3
                        funny) throws you do not understand where. you can count as you please. I’m saying what is close to me and judging from my own experience. Do you think that people don’t want what they don’t have? OK. I do not impose my opinion on you. the conversation went in a certain vein with the given examples. it’s you who started to turn everything upside down. I do not need to squeeze anything. re-read the whole conversation first.
                      2. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 14 August 2019 10: 13
                        -4
                        Quote: Dalny V
                        You are uttering what you consider to be truth, an absolutely unquestioned, mentor tone. This is called arrogance: the first point - I am always right, and if I'm wrong, then see the first point. Although all your truths are absolutely subjective ...

                        You yourself have not tried to try on this phrase of yours?

                        I read your comments with interest, IMHO - it will suit you very much.

                        Quote: Dalny V
                        You wish to squeeze a new car from your neighbor on occasion - and you think that everyone around you wants the same ...

                        Switching to personalities is a standard troll network technique. Do not be fooled wink

                        Accurate yes
              3. VeteranVSSSR
                VeteranVSSSR 14 August 2019 12: 02
                0
                Kipling - Mowgli. You and I are of the same blood ...
            2. free
              free 14 August 2019 22: 24
              -3
              Quote: carstorm 11
              evidence of my confidence in this? these are the laws of life. people always want to live better. someone rushing and seeking and someone sitting at home and in the evenings at a beer curses everyone that he has a bad life. that the neighbor is a thief because he has an expensive car and not one. and when all this begins he will not go to the Deripaska but to the neighbor. and then he will go to his superiors, who also live better. and this marginal mass will start a civil war. because nobody will give anything to him voluntarily.


              that the neighbor is a thief because he has an expensive car
              Imagine the situation. You are the owner of the enterprise. You earn 100 rubles a month. Spending 50 rubles not including the employee’s salary. Do you have 50 rubles for two? How will you divide? If 25 to 25 is fair from the point of view of the employee. If you are 40 and 10 it from the point of view of the employee have theft and forcing you to work for a bowl of pottage threatening you with dismissal. You will not become a thief when you are rich and when you rip off a worker. And without stripping him you cannot buy a car for 5 million. when a worker can hardly buy a Lada on credit. The fact that you have a car for 5 million raises the question, how is this money made?

              he will not go to the Deripaska but to the neighbor. and then he will go to his superiors
              People say about this "the cat smells whose meat it has eaten."

              Actually, I don’t think that your fears have a basis. Any newly arrived government is directly interested in the fact that the riots stop as soon as possible. This looting will be stopped in the bud. And you just get a luxury tax.
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 14 August 2019 22: 39
                0
                Quote: free
                Any newcomer to power is directly interested in the unrest ending as soon as possible.

                You accidentally let it slip: it turns out that your "new power" can "come" only as a result of "riots". This, by the way, is very similar to the truth.

                So - any existing power

                Quote: free
                ... is directly interested in the riots ending ...

                ... without starting. Which will be implemented.

                Dream on, youngster yes
                1. free
                  free 15 August 2019 17: 01
                  -1
                  Quote: Cat Man Null
                  Any new power


                  I felt bad with my eyes, I sympathize. And with the logic of the problem. Well, what can you do, time takes its toll. laughing
        2. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 14 August 2019 06: 36
          +3
          Quote: carstorm 11
          But it’s still strange that people, many of whom still remember the late USSR, are trying to somehow idealize that state system and that power. Did she really deserve it?
          Answer where the firewood comes from and sleep well. Participated in privatization? "Drive dolzhek together with yushka!" (Republic of SHKID)
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 14 August 2019 06: 45
            -4
            fiscal authorities exist for such matters.
        3. Greenwood
          Greenwood 14 August 2019 06: 51
          0
          Quote: carstorm 11
          who has a car for 5 million
          Do you work in Moscow? What is the income level?
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 14 August 2019 07: 06
            +3
            tax return does not need to be laid out?))) the conversation is not about me but about people in general. and my vision of the situation. you can agree or not. Why go to the person?
            1. Greenwood
              Greenwood 14 August 2019 07: 12
              +13
              Simply by such trifles it is possible to compose an approximate portrait of a supporter of the current government and an enemy of socialism, as such, and changes in the situation in the country as a whole. Of course, a "successful businessman" with an income of a couple of lamas a month will not want everything taken away from him. But his opinion may not coincide with a public sector employee.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 14 August 2019 07: 18
                -2
                where did I say that I’m someone's supporter? you don’t think for me. yes, and it has nothing to do with it at all. and so you are certainly right, our opinions will not coincide unequivocally.
              2. Cat man null
                Cat man null 14 August 2019 07: 20
                -11
                Quote: Greenwood
                A "successful businessman" with an income of a couple of dollars a month will not want everything taken away from him. But his opinion may not coincide with the employee of the public sector

                Yes of course. An employee of the public sector just wants everyone to be taken away from him laughing
        4. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 14 August 2019 07: 00
          +12
          Quote: carstorm 11
          what do their yachts have to do with it? do you really think that only all of this will affect them? Do you think that I, for example, whose car for 5 million is better than them for someone who has barely enough money for viburnum? This is a snowball that will swept through all. because everyone wants what they don’t have, but they don’t need complicated paths. pick everything up and share this is how it will be. so I have no doubt that civil war is not a fantastic scenario

          Blah blah blah ! We heard this bullshit back in the 90s! Like, how can you take away what was handed out from the people? Lots of interests will be affected! There will be a civil war! It won't! I spoke about this earlier! The people "inherited" apartments, shabby "frets" and even "Mercy" "not the first freshness" no one will take; and most of the people have nothing more! A "handful" of several percent will suffer, which grabbed 90% of the "property of the republic"! Who will rock the boat, we will crush! How the counter was crushed in the twenties!
          1. Greenwood
            Greenwood 14 August 2019 07: 12
            +6
            "Successful businessmen" will minus you.
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 14 August 2019 07: 20
              0
              why do you put quotation marks? Tipo there are no such?) and although I am not a businessman, I know a lot of such. who provided their life with their labor and head. but such comrades will not look at it. they will call them a counter and go to sow justice.
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 14 August 2019 08: 47
                +4
                Quote: carstorm 11
                why do you put quotation marks?

                For various reasons; including for the one you have indicated ... One thing is a bunch of mushrooms ... you can even without quotes. wink And what to call "a few percent of those who seized"? Is their name legion? Do not want ! But allegorically "a bunch" ... will do! Or, "Mears is not the first freshness", that is, used ... As I was told, even sturgeon "not the first freshness" does not exist! But as a "conventionally allegorical-figurative" sense, it will do! Well, and so on ...

                Quote: carstorm 11
                who secured their lives with their labor and head. but such comrades will not look at it. they will call them a counter and go to sow justice.

                You're an engineer? Where did you get the addiction to transfer 1917 tracing paper onto ... hmmm ... well, for example, 2027 tracing ?! Everything flows, everything changes ! Now the Communists are not the same as in 17 ... those that are two thousand ... wink And there were very wealthy people in the USSR! Moreover, "legally-officially"! (I hope you can guess who exactly ?!)
            2. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 14 August 2019 08: 30
              +3
              Quote: Greenwood
              "Successful businessmen" will minus you.

              Don't be afraid! "Minus" result is also a result! It is not so important how many "pluses" and how many "minuses" (!) ... all the same, the total is the number of people familiar with my opinion! wink
          2. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 14 August 2019 07: 13
            -2
            calmer) I do not know what you have and what it drives and how it lives. Yes, and I'm not interested. the apartments that are delivered are certainly super. I didn’t get it. I bought it myself. and noticed that new homes are all populated. and do not stand empty. and someone is buying in the car. and I don’t even doubt everything else and I’m talking about this — you will try to crush everyone who lives better than you. therefore, it will begin. such marginal desires are not news to me personally.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 14 August 2019 07: 45
              +7
              Quote: carstorm 11
              and noticed that new homes are all populated. and do not stand empty. and someone is buying in the car.

              Three examples. A friend bought an apartment in a new house. Where does the money come from? And she sold the old one, and took a loan.
              A friend bought a car. Where does the loot come from? And he sold the apartment that he had left from his grandfather.
              Mom bought a car for two brothers. To both gibberish under fifty dollars. Where do you think the money came from? Yes, from the same opera, she sold her sister’s apartment.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 14 August 2019 07: 59
                -6
                The last two are bad examples. people sell what can bring them income by buying cars. but that is their business. the thing is that I’m saying a little from my level, and there, even selling a couple of apartments will not be enough. my mistake) although it does not negate the fact that someone buys such apartments)
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 14 August 2019 08: 30
                  +3
                  Quote: carstorm 11
                  although it does not negate the fact that someone buys such apartments)

                  Yeah, like my bourgeois brother bought two huts, and he’s also building a house.
              2. Stirbjorn
                Stirbjorn 14 August 2019 09: 24
                +6
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                Three examples. A friend bought an apartment in a new house. Where does the money come from? And she sold the old one, and took a loan.
                A friend bought a car. Where does the loot come from? And he sold the apartment that he had left from his grandfather.
                Mom bought a car for two brothers. To both gibberish under fifty dollars. Where do you think the money came from? Yes, from the same opera, she sold her sister’s apartment.
                All apartments, I suppose, were received during the "decaying" USSR, free of charge. By the way, haters of everything Soviet, carefully bypass this issue, and remember only about TVs and cars hi
          3. atalef
            atalef 14 August 2019 09: 57
            -1
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Quote: carstorm 11
            what do their yachts have to do with it? do you really think that only all of this will affect them? Do you think that I, for example, whose car for 5 million is better than them for someone who has barely enough money for viburnum? This is a snowball that will swept through all. because everyone wants what they don’t have, but they don’t need complicated paths. pick everything up and share this is how it will be. so I have no doubt that civil war is not a fantastic scenario

            Blah blah blah ! We heard this bullshit back in the 90s! Like, how can you take away what was handed out from the people? Lots of interests will be affected! There will be a civil war! It won't! I spoke about this earlier! The people "inherited" apartments, shabby "frets" and even "Mercy" "not the first freshness" no one will take; and most of the people have nothing more! A "handful" of several percent will suffer, which grabbed 90% of the "property of the republic"! Who will rock the boat, we will crush! How the counter was crushed in the twenties!

            Well, of course, we’ve already heard this - we’ll take from the rich, the land to the peasants, factories for workers, peace to the peoples ..
            It will not affect me laughing
            Not affected.
            And there was no civilization and collectivization, well, everyone is just so rich. Well, get rich.
            Lumpen
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 14 August 2019 10: 21
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              Well, of course, we’ve already heard this - we’ll take from the rich, the land to the peasants, factories for workers, peace to the peoples ..
              It will not affect me

              What is it ? Do I now explain to every man in the street, frightened by the prospect of a new socialist revolution, that there is no need to "blunt" and "everything flows, everything changes"? request
        5. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 14 August 2019 08: 31
          +7
          Quote: carstorm 11
          This is a snowball that will swept through all. because everyone wants what they don’t have, but they don’t need complicated paths. pick everything up and share this is how it will be. so I have no doubt that the civil war is not a fantastic scenario.

          We remember this com in the 90th. When most lost everything. Now we’ll talk about a lump - a snowball. You guys with cars worth 5 will simply be taxed with progressive personal income tax, because you only have about 000 to calculate ...
          The bloodless transfer of 100% of natural resources to state ownership is the largest redistribution. yes
        6. Sotskiy
          Sotskiy 14 August 2019 10: 34
          +2
          take everything and share that's how it will be

          Did you read Stalin on the subject of the Soviet economy and the welfare of Soviet society? No along the way.
          Judging by the comments of Putin's rights, there will be no return to socialism in the near future, let alone communism. Bourgeois propaganda has done a good job and does not eat its bread for nothing. The reformatting of the population into small, individual shopkeepers was successful. After all, it is better to live in your own, albeit inferior, individual world than to build common property. Well, you have to share with your neighbor the results of your labor, and this is not permissible in a "civilized society", that's the meaning of the current fundamental ideology.
          At the same time, the essence of citizens' current dreams of social justice boils down to one thing: I want to live here right now as in America, but with social guarantees like in the USSR. It will not work, the systems are the opposite.
          And on the account of "take and divide everything", since this was exactly what the "reformers" did in the 90s, they stretched the total into their pockets, robbing the last personal savings of citizens from savings books. hi
      2. Evil echo
        Evil echo 14 August 2019 07: 24