Military Review

Turkey considers purchasing Su-35 in exchange for F-35

40
After the United States refused to sell Turkey the fifth-generation stealth fighter F-35 to Turkey, Ankara was thinking about acquiring the Russian Su-35. It is reported by the publication Yeni Şafak.




Ankara continues its confrontation with Washington in the field of its own defense independence, increasingly retreating into autonomous navigation and moving away from the NATO bloc. The decision to acquire the S-400 Triumph anti-aircraft missile system has embroiled Turkey with its main ally, the United States. Despite the fact that cooperation between the two countries in the military sphere continues, the Turks are increasingly trying to show their independence from the military machine of the United States.

For many years, the Republic of Turkey was one of the junior partners in the F-35 stealth fighter program. For many years, Ankara has been trying to make its defense industry self-sufficient. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, President of Turkey, credits himself that since he came to power as prime minister, the Turkish military-industrial complex, which previously provided the army with only 20 percent, was able to increase its share weapons local production up to 70%.

Partnerships in JFS, the F-35 development program, gave Turkey the opportunity to gain a lot of new knowledge about building fighter jets. In addition, 10 Turkish companies were engaged in the production of elements for this aircraft. However, after Turkey decided to acquire the Russian S-400 air defense system, the United States decided to show its teeth - and refused to supply Ankara with the already acquired aircraft: and it was going to order at least 100 cars.

After the pilots of the Turkish Air Force, trained at the F-35, were sent home, Ankara faced the question of how, on the one hand, to fill the gap, and on the other - how to hurt the United States, which caused such a painful blow to its ally.

Today, as part of meeting the needs of a new generation of fighters, Turkey has focused on working on alternatives, including considering proposals from Russia, China, and Pakistan. In addition, Ankara is accelerating work on the national TF-X fighter, a fifth-generation Turkish fighter project that is due to take off for the first time in 2023.

Su-35 instead of F-35


The Yeni Şafak newspaper notes that after Turkey’s exclusion from the JFS program, Rosoboronexport invited her to purchase Russian 4 ++ Su-35 fighters. And Ankara is seriously considering this proposal.

The Presidium of the Ministry of Defense of the Turkish Republic asked end users and relevant departments, in particular, the Air Force command, to express their opinion on the Su-35. Negotiations with Russia will be officially launched if the military positively evaluates the aircraft and expresses its opinion about its necessity.

In the case of the sale of Su-35, it would be logical to assume that Turkey will receive part of the technology for the production of aircraft, as well as in the case of C-400. If Ankara enters into a deal involving the transfer of certain technological processes, it will have the opportunity to accelerate the rise of its own fighter into the air.
40 comments
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  1. Thrall
    Thrall 12 August 2019 03: 04
    +3
    Zelensky’s bracelets didn’t work ... During a visit to Berlin, you will need to try a nose ring against SP-2 smile
    1. aszzz888
      aszzz888 12 August 2019 03: 24
      -2
      Thrall Today, 03: 04
      +1
      Zelensky’s bracelets didn’t work ... During a visit to Berlin, you will need to try a nose ring against SP-2 smile

      Yes, and aspen count, they say, helps. wink
    2. KCA
      KCA 12 August 2019 03: 31
      +1
      I would recommend him a chopik with a ponytail, well, to wag, in Europe it seems to be fashionable, but you can weave ribbons with the names of "prisoners of war" into the tail, well, and much more, like into a funeral wreath
      1. Tuzik
        Tuzik 12 August 2019 04: 11
        +22
        Do you guys have little news about Ukraine? This is about airplanes.
    3. hydrox
      hydrox 12 August 2019 05: 04
      -2
      In the case of SP-2, it is better for him to immediately have a rope ring with a self-tightening noose around his neck - if he can’t do anything against it, then he must either ignore it or crush it right away .... lol
  2. aszzz888
    aszzz888 12 August 2019 03: 23
    0
    And Ankara is seriously considering this proposal.

    Let's see, time will tell. But at least they won’t ego (Egoza hi - this is not about you!) as Indians.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 12 August 2019 06: 27
      +7
      Quote: aszzz888
      like the Indians.

      In fairness, I will say that the Indian arms market is one of the most attractive and rapidly developing in the world. What a fright here at VO, many decided that the Indians were obliged to buy our weapons, I don’t understand. This is the market. But market relations involve bargaining, and the desire to bargain for themselves the best purchase conditions. What Indians do. In turn, we are trying to oust mattresses and Europeans from this market, offering the best conditions with a future perspective. The mattresses and Europeans are trying to do the same for us.
      Now, according to the article ... I think that the Turks will still buy SU-35 from us. The split between the Turks and mattresses is only growing stronger and I think the Kremlin will do everything to ensure that this split only increases.
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 12 August 2019 06: 58
        +6
        I support. Turks are proud people. And it is not the first time that the "allys" are trying to pinch them more painfully ... Russia is right there ... And the gas needle will slip, the nuclear power plant, and the S-400 ... Plus our tourists are taking and bringing money to the coast .. And this is addiction ... wassat
        So, after all, they feel good, and we are not at a loss ...
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 12 August 2019 07: 01
          +10
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          So, after all, they feel good, and we are not at a loss ...

          The point is not a loss, but the fact that if we manage to pull the Turks away from NATO, then this will be a precedent that is quite capable of triggering a chain reaction of the outcome of this block of members. Indeed, many countries are not at all enthusiastic about the conditions of being in this block.
          1. Mountain shooter
            Mountain shooter 12 August 2019 07: 05
            +2
            Quote: NEXUS
            a precedent that is quite capable of starting a chain reaction of the outcome of this block of members. Indeed, many countries are not at all enthusiastic about the conditions of being in this block.

            And that is important. True, Erdogan is not eternal ...
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 12 August 2019 07: 07
              +3
              Quote: Mountain Shooter
              True, Erdogan is not eternal ...

              Hilary and Trump, too, and what kind of president will be after them, and with what diameter of the intestines and brains, is also an open question.
              1. Vasyan1971
                Vasyan1971 12 August 2019 07: 12
                +2
                Quote: NEXUS
                Hilary and Trump, too, and what kind of president will be after them ...

                And that makes no difference. The strategy will not change in any case.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 12 August 2019 07: 15
                  +3
                  Quote: Vasyan1971
                  And that makes no difference. The strategy will not change in any case.

                  The world means changing, but the US presidents as they were mmm ... not smart people, and will remain? Then nothing good is surely shining for this world.
                  1. Vasyan1971
                    Vasyan1971 12 August 2019 07: 21
                    +4
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    but the US presidents were like umm ... not smart people, will they remain?

                    Of course, the role of personality in history has a place to be. But "the suite is playing the king." And this is such a gadyushnik that ... In the end, the "smart" will be banged, replaced by the "correct". Hegemonic strategy is paramount. The entire history of the United States is proof of this.
                    1. Kasym
                      Kasym 12 August 2019 07: 58
                      -1
                      The Turks need to offer the Su-30 or its modernized version (AL-41F1). The Turks are now straining with money - the Su-35 with training personnel and weapons will get much more expensive. hi
                      1. bayard
                        bayard 12 August 2019 15: 49
                        0
                        The Turks are more likely to save on the purchase of Su-35 - it is cheaper than the F-35. But the version of Su-30 in the upgrade ordered by the Indians (upgrading to the level of Su-35) is unlikely to be cheaper than the original Su-35, rather the opposite - with the same engines, radar and other avionics, they also have a double cab.
                      2. Kasym
                        Kasym 12 August 2019 17: 08
                        0
                        Based on the fact that the F-35 is a fighter-bomber (what the Turks wanted), and the Su-35 is a fighter for gaining dominance in the air. Su-30 with two crew members is easier to adapt for shock functions on the ground. And secondly, I do not think that it is necessary to offer all the capabilities of the Su-35 avionics for a NATO member. Due to what the price will be more attractive. Those. to supply AL-41F1 with OVT (increase in resource) and an aiming system for AB. hi
                      3. bayard
                        bayard 12 August 2019 18: 06
                        0
                        If they are more interested in a fighter-bomber, then the modernized Su-30СМ will be just right for them. Now in Turkey, the military leadership is determined what exactly they order.
                        They are now a lot of what Russian arms are interested in.
                  2. Piramidon
                    Piramidon 12 August 2019 10: 46
                    0
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    The world means changing, but the US presidents as they were mmm ... not smart people, and will remain?

                    It is no secret that they do not solve anything serious. The presidents are puppeteers.
  3. Old Michael
    Old Michael 12 August 2019 03: 39
    +3
    The decision to acquire the S-400 Triumph anti-aircraft missile system quarreled Turkey with its main ally, the United States.

    "Quarreled" ... Erdogan got tired of free Washington advice on how to live properly, and finally the coup d'etat attempt with an assassination attempt, behind which the stars and striped ears are clearly visible, finally finished.
    But this does not mean at all that he is a friend to Russia, or at least an ally.
    And it's not about tomatoes.
    What are the interests of Russia in the zone of influence / reach of Turkey? What are the interests of Turkey in areas that are very sensitive to Russia?
    I sincerely believe that people who make decisions on behalf of the Russian Federation know the answers to these questions much better.
    1. Old Michael
      Old Michael 12 August 2019 04: 20
      -1
      PS
      I sincerely believe ...

      First I wrote “I hope”, then - “I dream”, but in the end I corrected it to “I believe” (like - I joked, if I don’t know anyone).
      Because here “I believe” is not a religious category, but one of the four possible forms of attitude to the information received.
      For your information::
      2x2 plate, columns: reliable information | unreliable; lines: information complete | incomplete.
      Confident and complete — confident knowledge; reliable, but incomplete - hope; unreliable, but complete - this is just a belief (almost all religions describe in detail the history of their gods and saints from the beginning of time, the course and outcome of the "last battle" - here the Scandinavians are beyond competition, they have Ragnarok painted every second).
      And what do we call our attitude to information incomplete and inaccurate?
      Most often - a "dream."
      However, in a conversation, the phrase “I believe” often sounds more convincing than “I dream.”
  4. Tuzik
    Tuzik 12 August 2019 04: 18
    +2
    "The Presidium of the Ministry of Defense of the Turkish Republic asked end users and relevant departments, in particular, the Air Force command, to express their opinion on the Su-35"

    I think their opinion will be to purchase the Su-57. Then having the technology and F-35, try to mold something of their own, using the best of both.
  5. svp67
    svp67 12 August 2019 04: 25
    +2
    For Turkey, replacing the F-35 with a Su-35 is not equivalent. So they lose the aviation component for their UDC, which they really counted on.
    1. Tuzik
      Tuzik 12 August 2019 04: 51
      +1
      But did they really want to buy Beshki?
      1. svp67
        svp67 12 August 2019 04: 56
        +1
        Quote: Tuzik
        But did they really want to buy Beshki?

        Well, judging by their performances when laying their UDC, they counted on them, over time
    2. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 12 August 2019 14: 10
      +2
      On Turkish TV, the Saab JAS 39E \ F Gripen aircraft were also recently discussed as an alternative, before the production of their TFX.
  6. Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 12 August 2019 04: 46
    0
    A risky "ally" but what to do, without fish ...
  7. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 12 August 2019 04: 54
    +3
    In the case of the sale of Su-35 it would be logical to assume that Turkey will receive part of the technology for the production of aircraft, as well as in the case of C-400
    Back in the 90s I read such a story "like a feuilleton" ...: People came to the market with a sign: "Selling homeland!" A "certain muddy type" approaches him and asks: "How much is the Motherland?" Chel said ... "The muddy guy" exclaimed: "Why is it so expensive? Look around: there are so many valuable secrets for sale here and everything is cheap! And you are wringing for some kind of" homeland "!" Looked around the district ... indeed, there the professor offers drawings of a secret satellite; on the right, an air defense major - the latest anti-aircraft missile, and on the left a caperang - "miracle torpedo" ... The people sighed, but still firmly said: "Homeland is the most precious thing we have left!"
    PS Please note, I didn't say it! It was written like that in the "feuilleton"! wink
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 12 August 2019 05: 09
      0
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      "Homeland is the most precious thing we have!"

      good
      In the case of the sale of Su-35, it would be logical to assume that Turkey will receive part of the technology for the production of aircraft, as well as in the case of C-400.

      In the case of the sale of the Su-35, it would be logical to assume that Russia will receive some of the technology for growing tomatoes and instructions for beginners on the development of the tourism business in a particular region? belay
      If Ankara enters into a deal involving the transfer of certain technological processes, it will have the opportunity to accelerate the rise of its own fighter into the air.

      If Moscow enters into a deal involving the transfer of technological processes, it will have the opportunity to:
      - free up production facilities;
      - to reduce the staff of workers in defense industry enterprises;
      - get in return SOMETHING;
      - increase the retirement age to 67-65;
      -other ...
      TELL ANYBODY THAT TURKEY IS GIVING RUSSIA AS A RESULT OF THIS MILITARY AGREEMENT?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 12 August 2019 05: 21
        0
        Quote: ROSS 42
        TELL ANYBODY THAT TURKEY IS GIVING RUSSIA AS A RESULT OF THIS MILITARY AGREEMENT?
        _
        And such an option _ That Turkey will not give striped as a result of the present collisions?
        All the same, you will not get rid of the feeling that this is a dumb "ally"!
      2. Pajamas
        Pajamas 12 August 2019 05: 32
        +1
        Quote: ROSS 42
        TELL ANYBODY THAT TURKEY IS GIVING RUSSIA AS A RESULT OF THIS MILITARY AGREEMENT?

        If KNAAZ does its best, if it does its best, it will be able to assemble no more than 9-10 Su-57 a year, if you personally cannot help with money, then 100 aircraft in 10 years, without import .......... ..... or with import, and then the same 100 aircraft, but to 33-34 a year, the option is to sell the Su-35 and build more facilities on the SU-57 increasing the series - reducing the cost.
        1. Sancho_SP
          Sancho_SP 12 August 2019 09: 54
          0
          Why do you need 35 and 57 at the same time? Here, either remove the cross (the Su-30/35 remains the main aircraft), or put on your underpants (the Su-57 has become the main one and we do not produce previous generations).

          Moreover, it is possible to produce Su-34 instead of Su-57. And this, in total, machines 30-35 per year?
          1. Pajamas
            Pajamas 12 August 2019 13: 21
            +1
            Quote: Sancho_SP
            Why do you need 35 and 57 at the same time? Here, either remove the cross (the Su-30/35 remains the main aircraft), or put on your underpants (the Su-57 has become the main one and we do not produce previous generations).

            Moreover, it is possible to produce Su-34 instead of Su-57. And this, in total, machines 30-35 per year?


            How will the SU-57 replace the SU-34 and change attack aircraft to fighter jets? The equipment of the lines for the production of each aircraft is different, the different subcontractors (they have the same production and the same new one), engines are needed for each aircraft - UEC capacities also will not pull all new at once. and it is very expensive, the question is not only the price but also the possibility of ordering 76 pieces of SU-57 is designed for 10 calendar years from 2019 to 2028, so the SU-35 will remain. You can’t just change the production line, money and time, so if you can sell the Su-35 you need to sell and increase production capacity, if you can’t sell it, then there will be a mix of SU-57, SU-35, SU30MKI,
            The analogy about the cross is not appropriate, there is a real state of affairs, there are no capacities, there is no money, a new generation must be led, and within the framework of such conditions, the problem is solved.
            1. Sancho_SP
              Sancho_SP 12 August 2019 17: 05
              +1
              Equipment, stocks, etc. at the total price for three plants will not be more expensive than one fighter.

              Similarly with engines.


              And as for the replacement of attack aircraft (and what are they doing here at all?) With fighters - see F-35.


              Strictly speaking, it is precisely the complete transition to the Su-57 that, instead of all the manufactured Su-27-type types, will make it possible to find an adequate price and, as a result, the number of Su-57.
  8. Igor Shcherbina
    Igor Shcherbina 12 August 2019 05: 17
    0
    Well done, the Turks are doing their plane, they will have something to compare the F-35 and Su-35 with, plus they will get some of the technology, they can also fly the Su-57 and also compare, one word well done.
    1. Avior
      Avior 12 August 2019 09: 44
      0
      do. with american engines.
      and when I buy Su-35, I suspect they may lose them
  9. barclay
    barclay 12 August 2019 09: 10
    +1
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    And here we are ...

    With their "pigs" as one person said
  10. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 12 August 2019 09: 19
    +1
    In the case of the sale of Su-35, it would be logical to assume that Turkey will receive part of the technology for the production of aircraft, as well as in the case of C-400.
    And then, "with our lard, and for us and for the musals!"
  11. no better place for
    no better place for 12 August 2019 11: 04
    +1
    The world has changed. All major buyers want either with the localization of production or with the transfer of technology. Some will not give, others will. And it’s better for money and large contracts than for the Chinese as a small party and then they will copy everything.
  12. Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 12 August 2019 12: 34
    -1
    I wouldn’t be so happy, Turkey is definitely not a friend and not an ally to us, a maximum momentary fellow traveler, and equipping it and transferring technology is a double-edged sword.