The collapse of the "Boeing" in the Donbas. Five years have passed, but the West is hiding the truth.

July 17, 2014, five years ago, in the east of the Donetsk region occurred aviation catastrophe. The Malaysia Airlines Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER was on the Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur route. 2 hours and 49 minutes after takeoff, the aircraft was shot down by a missile launched from Buk air defense systems. The crash killed all 298 people on board: 283 passengers and 15 crew members. It has not yet been established who nevertheless shot down a Malaysian airliner.

Airplane, crew and passengers

The Boeing 777-200ER was released at the Boeing plant in Everett (WA, USA) in 1997. 29 July the same year, he was transferred to the Malaysian airline Malaysia Airlines. Therefore, the crew of the aircraft was represented by Malaysian citizens.

By the time of the crash, the plane had been flying for seventeen years, made an 11 434 “takeoff - landing” cycle, an 75 322 hour was flown. The liner last passed the 11 July 2014 of the year, but it didn’t reveal any problems.

16 July 2014, the plane made a daily flight MH16 Kuala Lumpur - Amsterdam, arriving at Amsterdam Schiphol Airport at 04: 23. On 10: 14, the plane launched the return flight MH17 Amsterdam - Kuala Lumpur and on 10: 31 took off from the runway at Schiphol Airport. It was to fly, including over the territory of Ukraine, where by that time there was already a civil war in the Donbas.

Total aircraft crew consisted of 15 people. The commander of the main crew of the aircraft was 44-year-old Eugene Cho Jin Leong, the co-pilot was 26-year-old Muhamad Firdaus Abdul Rahim. The replacement crew was commanded by 49-year-old Van Amran Van Hassin, the co-pilot was 29-year-old Ahmad Hakimi Hanapi. All of them were experienced pilots with many thousands of flown hours. In addition, there were 11 flight attendants on the plane — the 3 steward and the 8 flight attendants — all of whom were also citizens of Malaysia.

This ill-fated flight on the "Boeing" flew 283 passenger. Most of the passengers were citizens of the Netherlands, as the plane took off from Amsterdam. In addition to the Dutch, the citizens of Malaysia, Australia, Indonesia, Britain, Germany, Belgium, the Philippines, Canada, Romania and New Zealand flew on the Boeing.

Tragedy in the sky over the Donbas

In 13: 20 UTC, an aircraft flying by then over the eastern part of Donbass was hit by a missile. Its warhead exploded to the left of the plane, in the cockpit area, after which the plane began to disintegrate in the air. The cockpit and half of the business class cabin almost immediately fell off and fell to the ground, while the rest of the aircraft was in the air for some time, flying another 8,5 kilometers to the east. From the moment of defeat and until the last parts of the aircraft fell to the ground, only about one and a half minutes passed.

The plane, or rather its fragments, fell near the village of Grabovo in the vicinity of the city of Torez, Donetsk region. The wreckage was scattered over a total area of ​​more than 15 square kilometers. All the people aboard the plane died.

By the number of dead, the disaster in the Donetsk region has become the largest since the events of September 11 2001. She also entered the top ten largest aviation accidents for the entire history aeronautics.

The National Bureau of Investigation of Aircraft Accidents and Incidents with Civil Aircraft of Ukraine received information about the loss of Boeing 777 — 200 aircraft radar screens with registration number 9M-MRD in the morning of July 18 on July 2014. Notifications of the incident were sent to Malaysia as the country of registration and operation of Boeing, the United States of America as a developer country, as well as the Netherlands and Australia, whose citizens died as a result of a plane crash.

On the ground, the search began. As the plane collapsed in the zone under the control of the Donetsk militia, the leadership of the Donetsk People's Republic allowed Ukrainian specialists to participate in the search operation.

21 July 2014. The train with the bodies of 282 dead went from the railway station Torez to Kharkov. The procedure for identifying the bodies of the dead, it was decided to hold in the Netherlands. Another 16 bodies were under the rubble of the fuselage and removed them only after the entire search operation was completed. The Netherlands took the lead in investigating all the circumstances of the tragedy. Flight recorders were transferred to the authorities of Malaysia by representatives of the DPR, and those in turn transferred them to the Netherlands.

The liner was shot down by a rocket

The investigation of all the circumstances of the disaster took more than a year. Initially, different versions of what happened were put forward, but ultimately a final conclusion was made - the plane was shot down by a ground-to-air missile. October 13 2015 of the Netherlands Security Council (DSB) presented the final report of the investigation into the circumstances of the disaster. Analysis of the wreckage of the aircraft and the fragments extracted from the bodies of the passengers and crew members of the liner showed that the aircraft was shot down by a 9H314М missile. Such warheads are equipped with 9M38 and 9M38M1 missiles. These missiles are used as part of the Buk, Buk-М1 and Buk-М1-2 anti-aircraft missile systems.

In the second part of the report, it was concluded that the Ukrainian services, which were responsible for organizing the air traffic, did not adequately take into account all the risks that could accompany the flight of a civilian aircraft over the zone of operations in the Donbas.

The results of the investigation caused a negative reaction both in Ukraine and in Russia. President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko hastened to refute the accusations against the Ukrainian air services, stressing that they already closed the airspace to a height of 9725 meters and did not assume that it was also dangerous to fly above this mark.

In the Russian Federation, the results of the Netherlands investigation were considered biased and tendentious. Information was published that the launch of the rocket was made from the territory that was at that moment under the control of not the DPR militia, but the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Oleg Storcheva, Deputy Head of the Federal Air Navigation Agency, speaking at a press conference on 14 in October, called the report of the Netherlands side fabricated, made in “the technique of fitting facts to predetermined conclusions”.

14 January 2016, they were sent a letter to the Netherlands Security Council criticizing the report, but the Dutch authorities replied that the letter did not contain any new or valuable information. Meanwhile, almost from the very beginning of the investigation, the fact that Malaysia was admitted to the results of the investigation only after a few months could not but arouse suspicion. But after all, Malaysia was the country of registration and operation of the crashed aircraft, and the crew, and a significant part of the passengers were citizens of this country.

In turn, the United States and the countries of the European Union fully supported the report of the Netherlands, because it fit perfectly into their paradigm of treating Russia as a country that supposedly unleashed a war in the Donbas and poses a threat to both Ukraine and the world as a whole.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Australia officially laid the blame for the disaster on Russia. The international joint investigation team (Joint Investigation Team, JIT) formed after the disaster, which included representatives from the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine (only in the fall of 2014, Malaysia was admitted to it) stated that the airliner was shot down by a missile that belonged to 53 an anti-aircraft missile brigade of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation deployed in the Kursk region. But real evidence of this provided, of course, was not.

As for Ukraine, its president, Petro Poroshenko, almost immediately after the catastrophe accused the militia of Donbass and the special services of Russia for involvement in it. The Security Service of Ukraine opened a criminal case in connection with the incident under Article 258 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine (an act of terrorism). Naturally, the West immediately took advantage of the disaster in the Donbas to impose additional economic sanctions against the Russian Federation.

In turn, Alexander Boroday, who was then the chairman of the DPR government, said that the militia did not have such anti-aircraft missile systems with which they could shoot down such a highly flying plane.

The representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Major General Igor Konashenkov, said that the rocket that hit the liner was indeed made on the territory of modern Russia, but still in Soviet times, and after the collapse of the USSR, the rocket was on the territory of Ukraine. According to a representative of the Ministry of Defense, the Russian Buk-М1-2 anti-aircraft missile systems did not cross the border between the Russian Federation and Ukraine.

Five years later. West continues to blame Russia, Malaysia doubts

In June, 2019, it became known that the Ukrainian side had appointed and “suspects” of organizing a missile strike on the liner. They are Igor Girkin (Strelkov), who at that time occupied the post of Minister of Defense of the Donetsk Republic, Sergei Dubinsky, who led the DPR intelligence, the commander of the intelligence unit of the DPRU GRU, Leonid Kharchenko, and lieutenant colonel of the Russian army, Oleg Pulatov.

All of the above, except Kharchenko, are citizens of the Russian Federation. However, there was information that the Ukrainian authorities would not demand the extradition of these citizens, and this fact in itself raises big questions. In fact, Kiev is completely unprofitable for a public trial of those who were “appointed” as perpetrators of the tragedy in Ukraine. After all, any trial can shed light on the real causes of the collapse of the liner. No wonder the Dutch authorities still do not agree to make public the results of the investigation of the disaster.

The position of the Malaysian leadership is very interesting in this context. Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammad (pictured) in June 2019 of the year said that Malaysia was very disappointed at the attempts of Western countries to put all the blame for the incident on the Russian Federation and use the catastrophe for political purposes.

According to the Malaysian Prime Minister, until now, the world has only “rumors” about Russia's alleged involvement in this tragic event. As for the evidence, the West does not provide them, but the accusations addressed to Moscow fell even before the start of the investigation of all the circumstances of the catastrophe.

They blame Russia, but where is the evidence? We know that the rocket that hit the plane was of the Russian type, but it could also be made in Ukraine. It seems that the idea was focused on trying to put the blame on the Russians,

- said Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammad.

These words of the head of the government of the country that owned the crashed Boeing, and more than all other countries are interested in an objective investigation of what happened, are very indicative, as is the fact that Malaysia is still not allowed to decipher the data from the black boxes of the aircraft.

It is advantageous for the West to expose Russia as the immediate culprit of the catastrophe, and for the sake of this in Amsterdam, Brussels, Washington, and London are ready to do anything, including overt falsification of evidence, and silence on the facts.

Comments

[WILL]

I think another five years will pass, and "things will remain there." There would be undeniable evidence of the involvement of militias or Russia - information would flow from all the irons in the world. It is interesting that Western society is also rather skeptical of both the investigation and the investigators, more and more critical articles are appearing about this supposedly work. I sincerely feel sorry for the dead passengers and crew.
I'm afraid we won’t find out the truth ... more precisely, it will not be officially announced. The only thing that is beyond doubt ... Ukraine deliberately brought this unfortunate plane into the combat zone!

[Den717]

Quote: ANIMAL

I think another five years will pass, and "things will remain there."

Most likely, the investigation will be drowned in inter-civil disputes and arguments. Despite the fact that Europe will be the most injured party that has come under pressure from the United States and is not able to conduct a normal objective investigation. In its quest to pressurize the US to bring out the killers of its own citizens, Europe will lead the investigation to a standstill and ultimately suspend without announcing official results and referring the case to court.

[Ilya-spb]

I read here today in the Orthodox calendar. July 17 is the day of the assassination of the imperial family in Yekaterinburg. Coincidence? Or reptilian sacrifice day?

[qQQQ]

Quote: ANIMAL

I think another five years will pass, and "things will remain there."

They have no other choice but to beat us. Blaming us immediately and imposing sanctions, the West made itself a hostage to the situation. After all, if it’s not us who is to blame, then the lifting of sanctions and the payment of losses, which means a lot of money. Most likely, it was the United States that framed Europe, arguing about satellite imagery, so they hit it. I don’t remember whether the USA imposed sanctions for the Donbass or for the Boeing too? If they didn’t enter for Boeing, they threw Europe specifically, they only had to move forward otherwise.

[NF68]

Quote: ANIMAL

I think another five years will pass, and "things will remain there." There would be undeniable evidence of the involvement of militias or Russia - information would flow from all the irons in the world. It is interesting that Western society is also rather skeptical of both the investigation and the investigators, more and more critical articles are appearing about this supposedly work. I sincerely feel sorry for the dead passengers and crew.
I'm afraid we won’t find out the truth ... more precisely, it will not be officially announced. The only thing that is beyond doubt ... Ukraine deliberately brought this unfortunate plane into the combat zone!

The Americans and their allies are looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq 3 times longer and still can not find.

[Dmitry Potapov]

It was not necessary to give the whole course of the investigation and the investigation itself to be brought under European control, it was necessary to create a joint investigation team, it was necessary to put ultimatums on the basis of presenting negotiations of dispatchers, what the hell were all the material evidence transferred to the other side and not left on the territory where the incident occurred? So they twirl now as they want.

[svp67]

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

It was not necessary to conduct the entire course of the investigation, and to give the investigation itself under European control, it was necessary to create a joint investigation team

Sorry, but there are certain rules for creating such international commissions. Where they were somehow violated, it is with respect to Malaysia

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

it was necessary to put ultimatums

Until recently, this was "not our method."

[Dmitry Potapov]

Here, according to these rules, the game is played with only one goal, even Malaysia was put out of the field so that she would not see too much in the "investigation"

[New Year day]

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

even Malaysia was put out of the field so that she would not see too much in the "investigation"

The Joint Investigation Team (CVG) of Australia, Belgium, Malaysia, the Netherlands and Ukraine has accepted the agreement, reaffirming its support and commitment to cooperate in investigating the causes of the crash of the Malaysian MH17 aircraft.
Minister of Transport of Malaysia:
“The investigation team did not submit final evidence pointing to Russia. Who is responsible for this ... You can not definitely point to Russia. Of course, we must take into account diplomatic relations. Any further action will be based on final evidence.
That, what are we doing right now, - this is the final report of the investigation team, which will be published in July. And I declare that we will make it public without any notes or editing. ”
so they work

[Greg Miller]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

It was not necessary to conduct the entire course of the investigation, and to give the investigation itself under European control, it was necessary to create a joint investigation team

Sorry, but there are certain rules for creating such international commissions. Where they were somehow violated, it is with respect to Malaysia

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

it was necessary to put ultimatums

Until recently, this was "not our method."

Namely, according to the rules, our IAC, which, for example, investigated the crash of the Kaczynski plane, should have been involved in the investigation of all air crashes over the territory of the CIS and this catastrophe in particular. But Russia, for unknown reasons, decided to step aside from this investigation, well, and got what it should have received for it. And it was necessary to take out all the wreckage to Russia, to invite all interested persons, including Malaysians, to participate in the investigation, and to conduct an investigation very openly.

[New Year day]

Quote: Greg Miller

our IAC was supposed to deal with, for example, investigating the crash of the Kaczynski plane.

the logic was different: the plane flew out of the Netherlands and most of the dead were Dutch (Holland), the plane belonged to Malaysia, was shot down on the territory of Ukraine, Australia and Belgium are dead.
When ratifying the Agreement on the establishment of the Commonwealth of Independent States, Ukraine did not ratify the CIS Charter. Therefore, it was not a state - a member of the CIS, referring to the states - founders of the Commonwealth.
Therefore, our IAC has nothing to do with this.

[Normal ok]

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

it was necessary to create a joint investigation team,

So Russia initially refused to participate in the investigation. And now the train is gone.

[major147]

Quote: Normal ok

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

it was necessary to create a joint investigation team,

So Russia initially refused to participate in the investigation. And now the train is gone.

I don’t know about that. Is there a proof?

[rotmistr60]

Normal ok
So Russia initially refused to participate in the investigation.

An outright lie, and a cynical one. Russia immediately offered its help, but for Western reasons it was not allowed to investigate. After that, the Russian side presented all the materials from its radars and held a number of briefings. In addition, materials on the experiments carried out by Almaz-Antey were presented. There was a briefing after an investigation into the Buk missile number. Therefore, do not la-la.

[Greg Miller]

The Russian leadership is guilty of acting too passively in the investigation. It was clear from the very beginning that this was a provocation against Russia, it was necessary to take the initiative to investigate into our own hands.

[New Year day]

Quote: rotmistr60

materials on experiments carried out by Almaz-Antey were presented

Both the Dutch and Russian experts doubted the reliability of the Almaz-Antey experiment, pointing out gross errors and excessive assumptions during its implementation:
1. The state concern when modeling the conditions of a shot from Zaroschensky used for unknown reasons the technical characteristics of the Boeing 767 (its fuselage diameter is 5 m instead of 6,2, like the Boeing 777).
2. The direction of the wind was incorrectly calculated (according to A.A., the wind was blowing from the north-east, although in fact from the south-west), the azimuth of the rocket approach was mixed up with the true magnetic course. In general, flight conditions at an altitude of 10 meters of two objects moving towards each other at high speed were not taken into account.
3. In the calculations and experiments of the state concern, the direction of movement of MH17 was deflected to the right by 8,26 degrees in the horizontal plane, which automatically shifted the desired missile launch area to the west - towards Zaroshchensky.

In addition, in Zaroschenskoye, at the time of the shooting, there were DNI troops

[VVAU]

And someone from the countries included in the investigation group ordered this experiment "Almaz Antey"?
Why this initiative?
The disaster occurred not over the territory of Russia, there were no Russian citizens on the plane, you just need to provide all the requested materials and wait for the trial. Why jump out of your pants and come up with Carlos, Voloshin, a photo from Leontiev’s satellite, a briefing by the Moscow Defense Ministry, the Union of Engineers, Almaz-Antey, Girkin’s stale corpses, birdfall?
And when it was required to vote for the international court at the UN ..... oops, veto.
Everything is somehow strange.

[NKT]

3. In the calculations and experiments of the state concern, the direction of motion of MH17 turned out to be deflected to the right by 8,26 degrees in the horizontal plane, which automatically shifted the desired launch area of ​​the canceryou are west - towards Zaroschensky.

AA doesn't seem to know the navigation terms. By "true trajectory" what does she mean?
Its "true trajectory" is the aircraft's magnetic bearing. And for the transition to the true bearing of the aircraft, here is the formula ISS = MPS + (± ΔM). On the map the isogon is about +8 degrees. Therefore, the Almaz-Antey trajectory looks more correct.

[VVAU]

Translation errors.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Silvestr

In addition, in Zaroschenskoye, at the time of the shooting, there were DNI troops

So there was a link to the map of the commander of the 1st battalion of the 95th separate airmobile brigade, which at that "moment" Zaroshchenskoye was under the control of the Armed Forces of Ukraine!

[Olgovich]

Quote: Normal ok

So Russia initially refused to participate in the investigation.

complete nonsense: it was exactly the opposite

[New Year day]

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

It was not necessary to conduct the entire course of the investigation, and to give the investigation itself under European control, it was necessary to create a joint investigation team

So Russia blocked the creation of an international tribunal in the UN Security Council in July 2015 on this tragedy.

[svp67]

Quote: Silvestr

As Russia blocked the creation of an international tribunal in the UN Security Council in July 2015 on this tragedy.

And rightly so. Otherwise, it would have been poked by the fact that you yourself voted for it.

[New Year day]

Quote: svp67

would have poked it now that you

On the other hand, they also say the same thing: if they blocked, then they are not interested in the truth

[Thrifty]

The West has already opened its rotten bark, and has demanded from Russia to admit itself, that is, Russia, guilty of the destruction of Boeing! By the way, in the first version it was written "in willful destruction" !!!

[Amateur]

All airlines already know. This is not the first screenshot from the flytradar about Ukraine and air routes through its airspace.

[Professor]

Quote: Amateur

All airlines already know. This is not the first screenshot from the flytradar about Ukraine and air routes through its airspace.

Here is the map for now. It's ok.

PS
It will take another ten years and ALL the truth will come out. No one will be unlocked.

[Horst78]

Quote: professor

Here is the map at the moment. It's alright.

Where is normal? Over Donbass aircraft and not.

Quote: professor

It will take another ten years and ALL the truth will come out. No one will be unlocked.

Question? And who in your opinion is unlocked?

[Professor]

Quote: Horst78

Where is normal? Over Donbass aircraft and not.

So through the Crimea, except for you, no one flies.

Quote: Horst78

Question? And who in your opinion is unlocked?

The one who unlocks to create an international tribunal.

[To be or not to be]

professor (Sokolov Oleg) Today, 07:41 The one who deny to create an international tribunal ""

The tribunal will be.
Time will put everything in its place. "Third" will be found in this case ... and in the Skripals case ... and. . and.

... There will also be for "cast lead" ... for those killed innocently in Syria ..
"God's judgment" ... "He waits. He is not available to the ringing of gold!"

[Professor]

Quote: To be or not to be

The tribunal will be.

Well, nice.

Quote: To be or not to be

... There will also be for "cast lead" ... for those killed innocently in Syria ..

For "Cast Lead" will not be. The parties no longer have any claims.

Quote: musketone64

When the Americans shot down a Boeing over the Persian Gulf, and the Ukrainians of the Tu-154 over the Black Sea, everything worked out for them without a tribunal.

Since they took the blame and paid compensation.

Quote: musketone64

And then give them a tribunal, but no evidence.

Here is an international tribunal and identify the perpetrators. Innocent nothing to fear.

[To be or not to be]

... There will also be for "cast lead" ... for those killed innocently in Syria ..

For "Cast Lead" will not be. The parties have no more claims "
God has his own bookkeeping. And always the balance of the system. By the way. About the "third" - what kind of news is the rod from .. Italy

[musketon64]

When the Americans shot down a Boeing over the Persian Gulf, and the Ukrainians of the Tu-154 over the Black Sea, everything worked out for them without a tribunal. With irrefutable evidence. And then give them a tribunal, but no evidence. Only accusations in the style of "highley like" or "there is evidence, but we will not show them to you."

[Antares]

Quote: musketone64

When the Americans shot down a Boeing over the Persian Gulf, and the Ukrainians of the Tu-154 over the Black Sea, everything worked out for them without a tribunal. With irrefutable evidence

Recognized (but partially) paid compensation. It quite satisfied many.

[Fedorov]

Tu-154 over the Black Sea shot down hell he knows who. There was a court almost international in the specific presence of Russia. Proved, justified. The S-200 couldn’t physically do this, we regiment practically discussed it (sorry, but many air defense officers are not easy to get hold of). But the Ukrainian side decided not to bother, paid the wabble and everything calmed down, maybe in these games the pitfalls were like drinking to give ..

[musketon64]

Understood you. "They knocked themselves down."

[musketon64]

Let me remind you. Ukrainian air defense in order not to pay "damned Muscovites" for renting a training ground in Ashuluk did not think of anything better than to arrange anti-aircraft missile firing in the Black Sea. The result is known. At first, the Ukrainian side denied it by hook or by crook, but pressed by facts and evidence, it declared through the mouth of the President of Ukraine - well, they shot down and knocked down, with whom it does not happen (not literally). And now, with the passage of time, it suddenly became "not so simple." When the investigation is carried out by professionals, they are able to determine from which direction the rocket arrived, the type of rocket, up to when and where the rocket was made and where it was then sent. All this became known after a very costly event to lift the wreckage of the plane, which the Russian side went to to establish the truth.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Fedorov

C - 200 couldn't do it physically

The performance characteristics of missiles (complexes) are "guaranteed" under specific conditions (for example, self-liquidator triggering)! And they may not reflect the maximum capabilities. And regarding the S-200, examples have already been given when the self-liquidator did not work and the rocket flew away at a greater distance than was indicated in the performance characteristics ... Any "trifle" (!) Can play a role here: wind direction, air density ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: professor

So through the Crimea, except for you, no one flies.

They indicated to you that you only confirmed the previous one with your card.

Crimea to do with it?

Quote: professor

The one who unlocks to create an international tribunal.

when you agree to the affairs of Israel to consider the Palestinian Tribunal, then I agree

[Professor]

Quote: Olgovich

when you agree to the affairs of Israel to consider the Palestinian Tribunal, then I agree

We always conduct transparent investigations and therefore the international tribunal has no complaints to us. Fylystyntsy nervously smoking in aside. This time.
An international tribunal will identify punish the perpetrators. What are you afraid of? These are two.

[Olgovich]

Quote: professor

We always conduct transparent investigations and therefore international tribunal to us without complaints.

which tribunal when he was sitting and did not present?

Quote: professor

The international tribunal will reveal the punishment of those responsible.

And the Palestinian tribunal will also reveal and punish. What are you afraid of?

[Operator]

An investigation of the Israeli war crimes (which do not have a statute of limitations), taking into account the experience of the Nuremberg Tribunal, is required to establish an international tribunal.

[Professor]

Quote: Operator

An investigation of the Israeli war crimes (which do not have a statute of limitations), taking into account the experience of the Nuremberg Tribunal, is required to establish an international tribunal.

Begin to form.

[Wildcat]

Sorry professor! I can not resist, many years of tradition, so to speak! Nothing changes...

"Here is blinking at me, I see, the chairman:
Like, say your word of work!
I go out, And not fractionally, like a woodpecker,
And I speak slowly and sternly:
"Israeli, - I say, - the military is known throughout the world!
As a mother, I say, and as a woman I demand them to be answered!
Which year I am a widow, All happiness is past,
But I stand ready For the cause of peace!
As a mother I declare to you and as a woman! .. ""

[sabakina]

Quote: professor

Here is the map for now. It's ok.

Professor, hike, we have different Flyradars.

[sabakina]

Quote: Amateur

All airlines already know. This is not the first screenshot from the flytradar about Ukraine and air routes through its airspace.

Victor sometimes I go to the flyradar, but I see this for the first time .... Looks like the fifth point ...

[Antares]

Quote: sabakina

flyradar, but I see this for the first time.

You have come to the rather popular route Odessa Kiev Minsk. Because there are no direct ones. Everything is through Minsk.
In addition, there are many transit through Odessa-Kiev (to the same Minsk). Two centers of air flights (Kiev and Odessa)

[rocket757]

Even in their patterns, Wishlist, drag the case to court .... dumb !!! Therefore, they want to arrange a SHIELD and all kinds of TRIBUNALS ....

[New Year day]

Quote: rocket757

case drag to court .... dumb !!!

Just the case will be considered in a criminal court. The possibility of a tribunal of the Russian Federation has blocked. The trial will not be over states, but over individuals. Just as Russian citizens have been charged with Ukrainian.

[rocket757]

Quote: Silvestr

Just the case will be considered in a criminal court.

So we are waiting, sir! Normal court, this is specifics, evidence, expertise and all that jazz ...
Doubts still gnaw, because they will put pressure on the court! Let's see ... if we wait.

[Strashila]

Was there a consequence and who are the so-called investigators. Specialists on the topic, if you believe the media are not there, a group of comrades voicing releases of what is not there, i.e. the consequences. As one blogger noted, they even customize the assembly for

its version by shifting the position of the nodes for demonstration.

[New Year day]

Quote: Strashila

Specialists on the topic, if you believe the media are not there,

According to the laws of the Netherlands, no one can voice a single detail of the investigation, since immediately this detail ceases to be a detail of the investigation. Because scribblers are driven out, fantasize

[Fedorov]

Who generally allowed-paved the route over the territory where the civil war is going on? Maybe you need to dance from there?

[Ravil_Asnafovich]

Unfortunately, who knows the truth, not always can prove it.

[parusnik]

When the truth is no longer needed by anyone, then it will be revealed: But here it is .. The untruth is more important today ...

[Pessimist22]

They confused everything very much. But I think that the militia had shot down the AFU aircraft before this incident, and they had a motive and Girkin said: “An An-26 plane has just been shot down in the Torez region, lying somewhere behind the Progress mine. do not fly in "our sky." And here is a video confirmation of the next "birdfall". The bird fell over the waste heap, the residential sector was not hooked. Civilians were not injured. And there is also information about the second downed plane, like Su ", - Strelkov's message says. "
And what motive did the APU have to bring down an airplane over its territory? Naturally, Ukraine is responsible for what happened over its territory, but there is no direct evidence of who shot down.

[Fedorov]

Russia is still raking this motive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Quite the opposite - why the hell did Russia need it or the militias? And just by mistake, you have to be completely an idiot, I am an air defense officer, and the plane must be driven until defeat, there is also a fat dot on the screen, and you know the schedule of civilian aircraft. And the Buk missile cannot be re-captured. Everything was done purposefully - a provocation so that Europe would howl against Russia.

[Igoresha]

Strelkova says

also read in hot pursuit of this message, they first rubbed it and then said that Strelkov did not write anything like that ... sort it out now.

[major147]

Quote: Igoresha

figure it out now.

Here
https://www.ritmeurasia.org/news--2019-07-16--sbityj-boing-zametat-sledy-kievu-otkazyvajutsja-pomogat-dazhe-v-varshave-43817?utm_source=politobzor.net
pretty detailed layout.

[Igoresha]

comment below article "gives the location of" Buk "- on Gorky Street in Krasnoarmeysk," - there are no trolleybus lines in Krasnoarmeysk. On set, they are obvious. This is Krasnodon, not Krasnoarmeisk. "
google https://www.06239.com.ua/news/581633/tajna-bukov-kak-vygladit-nastoasaa-ulica-gorkogo-49-v-krasnoarmejske
and indeed, there are no trolleybus lines on the street. Gorky.

people (like!) figured out that this is not Krasnoarmeysk https://avva.livejournal.com/2787603.html

[New Year day]

Quote: major147

Here ... a fairly detailed layout.

https://www.novayagazeta.ru/articles/2019/07/16/81265-fakty-feyki-i-molchanie-ofitserov
with all fakes and versions

[Igoresha]

the fiercest of course

https://www.novayagazeta.ru/articles/2019/07/16/81265-fakty-feyki-i-molchanie-ofitserov

This is Leontief photo from Yandex maps

[Ural resident]

This just fits into the tactics of a hybrid war mattresses. The militia began to hollow Bandera aircraft and it was used against them. With the help of Ukrainian beech, a passenger liner was shot down and the defenders were blamed for all sins. Doesn’t it bother anyone that at such heights Girkin simply had nothing to shoot down?

[New Year day]

Quote: Resident of the Urals

Doesn’t it bother anyone that at such heights Girkin simply had nothing to shoot down?

In his conversation with Aksyonov that had been intercepted before, this is exactly what he says, in response Aksyonov assures that the air defense will

[rotmistr60]

Five years later. West continues to blame Russia

Blamed, blamed and will blame, which is obvious. Even if we imagine the incredible - Poroshenko admitted collusion with the Western special services and that the Ukrainian side shot down a Boeing, how do you think the West will react? They will simply be declared crazy and continue to blame Russia. This wedge can only be knocked out with a wedge, i.e. a tougher attitude towards those countries that most loudly accuse our country and their aggressive propaganda against these countries.

[Boris55]

If Borodai and Girkin would not have sold the "black boxes, if the LPR turned to Russia for help in decrypting these boxes, then there would not have been such a brazen, cynical, shameless lie regarding Russia."

[Antares]

Quote: Boris55

"black boxes,

they have nothing but confirming all the authenticity of the negotiations between Rostov and Dnepropetrovsk dispatchers, no. Unless all the systems worked fine.
They passed it as an act of goodwill --- all the more so, the flaming up company, accused of mass media in Ukraine (drying brought down), was gaining momentum.

[Boris55]

Quote: Antares

they have nothing but confirming all the authenticity of the negotiations between Rostov and Dnepropetrovsk dispatchers, no.

What do you mean?
And the negotiations of the Ukrainian dispatcher who brought the Boeing to Buki, aren't they there?
If there’s nothing on them, why not publish them?

[New Year day]

Quote: Boris55

And the negotiations of the Ukrainian dispatcher who brought the Boeing to Buki, aren't they there?

there was no this dispatcher, fake.
If NG is to be believed: a tweet from a "Spanish dispatcher" who allegedly worked at the Kiev airport Borispol: a user under the nickname spainbuca wrote that a few minutes before the tragedy he saw two Ukrainian military aircraft on the radar next to MH17. Later it turned out that, under the guise of a "Spanish dispatcher", posts on Twitter were posted by Jose Carlos Barrios Sanchez, wanted on suspicion of forgery, who has nothing to do with aviation; The false dispatcher said that he wrote posts in social networks for the money that Russia Today TV channel paid him.

[Boris55]

Quote: Silvestr

there was no this dispatcher, fake.

Aircraft without dispatchers do not fly. It was not this - it was different.

[Antares]

Quote: Boris55

And the negotiations of the Ukrainian dispatcher who brought the Boeing to Buki, aren't they there?

there are 20 words spoken by the dispatcher to pilots and colleagues in Rostov

Quote: Boris55

If there’s nothing on them, why not publish them?

long published in the report. Previously, they could not have been a non-disclosure subscription.
Reports can be seen on the Internet. He himself repeatedly tried to convey screenshots to the Russians with negotiations. But still, everyone believes that Ukraine hid them (if anything from the Rostov records) and does not specifically show them.
some stubbornness with this fake .. You show, but still everyone writes that they are not there and are building a conspiracy theory.

[Boris55]

Quote: Antares

there are 20 words spoken by the dispatcher to pilots and colleagues in Rostov

I kind of wrote in Russian: "... negotiations of the Ukrainian dispatcher ...". Rostov interests me in the second place. Until the plane leaves the borders of Ukraine, this is the responsibility of Ukrainian dispatchers. Until ours - he did not reach.

You show, but still they all write that they are not there and are building a conspiracy theory.

Talk less, work more. Spread those talks Ukrainian controllers with a Boeing before its crash. I'm waiting.

[Antares]

15:08:00 MH17 to DNP: Dnepr Radar, Malaysian one seven, flight level 330.
DNP to MH17: Malaysian one seven, Dnepr Radar, good afternoon, radar contact.
MH17 to DNP: Malaysian one seven.
15:19:21 DNP to RST: Yes.
RST to DNP: So, Dnepr, Rostov alone. You can give a course (direction) for the Malaysian to Rostov to the RND point, we have three of them here.
DNP to RST: For Malaysian who are seventeen?
RST to DNP: Yes, we will return them back to TIKNA.
DNP to RST: Excellent.
RST to DNP: Yes, thanks.
15:19:49 DNP to MH17: Malaysian one seven, head straight to ROMEO NOVEMBER DELTA.
15:19:56 MH17 to DNP: ROMEO NOVEMBER DELTA, Malaysian one seven.
15:20:00 DNP to MH17: Malaysian one is seven, and after the point ROMEO NOVEMBER DELTA the expected direction is TIKNA.
15:21:10 DNP to MH17: Malaysian one seven, how do you understand me? Malaysian one seven, Dnieper Radar.
15:21:36 DNP to MH17: Malaysian one seven, Dnepr Radar.
15:22:02 DNP to MH17: Malaysian one seven, Dnepr Radar.
15:22:02 RST to DNP I'm listening to you, Rostov on the line.
DNP to RST: Rostov, do you observe Malaysian by ... regarding the answer?
RST to DNP: No, it seems his goal has begun to decay.
DNP to RST: Well, it doesn't answer our calls either.
RST to DNP: And it doesn't answer calls, right?
DNP to RST: Yes. And we do not see now. That is, you gave them a direction, they confirmed and ...
RST to DNP: And that's it, huh?
DNP to RST: Yes, it has disappeared.
RST to DNP: Wait, I will ask.
DNP to RST: Do you observe anything on the main?
RST to DNP: Yes, yes, yes, nothing. We do not see anything.
DNP to RST: Ok, then we will call them.
In the September 9 report of the Netherlands Security Council in paragraph 2.5.4. It is stated that the organization Ukrainian State Air Traffic Services Enterprise or UkSATSE provided the investigators with records and transcripts of radio and telephone conversations related to the MH17 flight.

[Nait]

Are there any negotiations where a slightly changed course was offered to the Boeing?
To just fly over the place where they were shot down.
I think it was a question of these negotiations.

[Ee-mae bee]

So after all, no one else has provided any airspace control data. Neither Ukroreich’s civil aviation, nor their air defense in an area like a DB, nor an American AWAC at that moment were hanging so far ...
What are we hiding?

[Karislav]

and where did the two fighters near Konashenkov disappear?

[Ee-mae bee]

So nowhere - eyewitness accounts were provided to the commission - but she didn’t even consider them! But for example, an interview with Zemakh, the air defense militia of the militia, who specifically mentioned those fighters, recently recalled dill in full throat, though again clumsily:
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5116451.html
But there was about a parachute

[New Year day]

Quote: Karislav

and where did the two fighters near Konashenkov disappear?

to the same place where the attack aircraft flew

[atalef]

Quote: Bee E-mayo

So after all, no one else has provided any airspace control data. Neither Ukroreich’s civil aviation, nor their air defense in an area like a DB, nor an American AWAC at that moment were hanging so far ...
What are we hiding?

Which evidence is more suitable for you?
Girkin and his comrades - who immediately reported on Twitter that it was the militia that shot down the plane, and then finding out which one - hastily slaughtered comments?
Zakharchenko- who claimed that he personally saw that a Boeing shot down an ukrovsky su?
SK RF with a state witness. Claiming the same thing?
Who suits you best?

[Antares]

Quote: Yeo-mayo bee

So after all, no one else provided any airspace control data.

judging by the reports, the data was provided by both the Russian Federation and Ukraine. There was still a scandal in the form of encrypting the Russian Federation (primary according to another standard)
little clarified this data.
In general, the report has everything that the parties provided upon request.

[Ee-mae bee]

... and these data are not even declassified, and the Ukrainian madam-dispatcher who was in charge of that Boeing "disappeared" without a trace in Ukraine. And on the topic of encryption - firstly, in Ukraine it is the same - one school, one offices. Yes, and I do not remember this, although - again - you can ask and decipher, as they asked the commission to decipher - though they did not receive an answer. And once again - where are the data, for example, of your air defense, which was then frantically preparing to reflect the air raids of the Russian Air Force, and in the news a day later there were those who bombed the brave ZapUkra hijackers of the Ahressor armada. There it became clear a long time ago that Muzhenko was having fun in the Azov ... Where is their data? Where is the dispatcher? Have you dug long ago?

[Antares]

Quote: Yeo-mayo bee

and this data is not even declassified

Well, yes ... October 2015 here even with the translation

full version
https://pikabu.ru/story/peregovoryi_dispetcherov_vo_vremya_krusheniya_mn_17_4178400

Quote: Yeo-mayo bee

and the Ukrainian madam-dispatcher, who was in charge of that Boeing, "disappeared" without a trace in Ukraine.

so without a trace that the Russian channel got through to her

And on the topic of encryption - firstly, in Ukraine it is the same - one school, one office

I'm about

[Ee-mae bee]

Will you answer in pieces? You do not see other questions again? It just happened again - they didn’t answer - where is Madame? She got through to her, she will not answer on the phone - but neither the Dutch, nor the dill can find her, but she was found by the TV channel to which she - without a picture - cannot answer.
They didn't deserve a cookie, bad, Antares, bad. Grow above yourself - you will become Sirius! Do not ... Sirius can gouge the Russian Aerospace Forces - they are also "space" - become Tau Ceti. Or just Tau of the constellation Cancer ...

[Antares]

He answered that something and no answer is required since it is in the report! And a bunch of times was provided. Is English really not familiar? Or is it difficult to use Google and type a report to see?
Radar data is provided. Information cliches about Ukrainians are quite difficult to discuss, because they are designed for faith and not for evidence. A stall in the discussion is always srach.
He answered the theses. Negotiations, here, the dispatcher was alive once the channel contacted him. Radar data here. However, this still does not help. All the same, even the authors on VO write that the Ukrainians did not provide negotiations between the dispatchers and the board. They downloaded the radar data, in general radishes. It’s such an information war.

[Ee-mae bee]

Address again - what did you provide there? No, but the Kuklachev Theater - refused? Where is the tower. native?! Better put on a tsak. since the rest does not
Antares - here they said about you that you are such, with a rubbed, daughter of an okhvytser. and you burn. as a railway station "blue eye"

[Ural resident]

But I agree with this, Russia should have taken on the investigation of the disaster or the militias should have been "entrusted" under its wing. This effort to play by the rules with cheaters once again led to a natural result. Some of the "witnesses" of the case have already been eliminated, the rest will be eliminated, and some documents will disappear, the records will be erased. In 20 years, one of the experts will remember that in fact it was a Ukrainian beech that was shot down, but no one will be interested anymore. By the way, it is worth recalling that the ukrovoy still fired at the territory with debris when they tried to take out the bodies from there.

[Sergey Zhikharev]

So the hurdy-gurdy would play another song "Russia interferes with work, Russians hide evidence, Russians ....." Like the Russians themselves shot down, and they themselves covered all traces.

[tralmaster]

This wound that these sadists will open for more than one year before the anniversary and poke around it with their dirty hands.

[Ee-mae bee]

Forgot to mention the repeated shelling of dill on the Boeing crash site. What the hell? Just to hide the tracks - what other options?

[sabakina]

There was still a cadaverous smell, indicated this repeatedly.

[Karislav]

So smell ?? fighter?? BEECH??? aliens ?? decide on the version, clean the means of objective control in Photoshop

[sabakina]

What did you ask that?

[bang bang]

all who did start --- died ... now everything can be blamed on Russia

[Karislav]

At first, the corpses are not fresh, then the Voloshin pilot and 2 fighters — WHO saw our islands about. control !!!!!!!, then beech, but not ours, then what? Where did two fighters disappear from our radars at Kanashenkov ?? Where is the Leontief plane at 700 meters ?? Dozens of videos, on the way to Ukraine and back!

[Alex_59]

There are actually only two options who shot down. 1) Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners with fright and confusion. 2) DPR militias from a serviceable Buk missile launcher seized from the Ukrainians due to the lack of a professional air defense organization.
I consider the second option the most realistic. There was information that the militia not long before the events seized part of the Buk air defense system from the Ukrainians. It is easy to believe that in those hot days Ukrainian soldiers could have abandoned their equipment. Further, the militias in dire need of air defense, on their own, brought the captured SDU into a more or less efficient state. And they tried to apply it in their air defense system. Since they did not have the opportunity to competently organize the work of their air defense. they did not have air reconnaissance equipment (radar), there were no complete prepared calculations (most likely, veterans of the Soviet army's air defense from the local ones were called to control the SDU), there were no serviceable command and control systems and radars in the air defense system, then the shooting was conducted according to the data of the autonomously working SDU. The radar for illumination-guidance of the BUK missile system is able to operate as a radar for detecting air targets if the standard radar from the battery kit is destroyed. But it can do this with serious restrictions, and of course we cannot talk about any full-fledged reconnaissance of targets. Due to the fact that the Ukrainians in those days actively flew at all heights, and not only "whistles" flew, but also all sorts of An-26s, most likely the fighters controlled from the SDU, could not correctly assess the nature of the detected target and slapped on the Boeing. This version fits neatly into the absence of full-fledged evidence of anyone's guilt, both from the United States and the Russian Federation. The first ones know everything, but they don't want to voice it, because in this case, the blame will be unambiguously removed from the Russian Federation, but part of the blame will be borne by the Ukrainian side, which allowed the loss of an efficient Buk SOU. And the Russian Federation clearly does not want to expose the militias. Hence the indistinct investigation, in which absolutely no one is interested, except for the victims of the tragedy. In this version, the truth is not needed by either Ukraine, or the United States, or Russia, or the militias.
Also, 100% we can say that Boeing did not shoot down the air defense system belonging to the Russian Federation, tk. in Russia, anti-aircraft gunners are not so crooked, and the best are usually sent on business trips. If our air defense systems were present there, then there is no doubt about the competent organization of the conduct of the battle, and our "citizen" could be distinguished from a combat aircraft for sure. And secondly, Russia did not and does not have such a need to send such air defense systems as the Buk to the DPR. For this is a set-up of oneself in its purest form. The work of "Buk" will immediately be revealed by the electronic warfare of Ukraine's allies, the frequencies and characteristics of the radiation of this ancient complex have long been known to everyone. If there was a question of strengthening the air defense of the Donbass, then it would be much more logical to send something more secretive, for example "Shilki", "Strela", or, in extreme cases, "Osu", with which warehouses are piled in excess. And their radars shine at times weaker, which reduces the likelihood of detecting the fact of their presence. And at the same time, you can always hide behind the fact that Ukraine also has such funds in bulk, they say, they seized them themselves, without the participation of the Russian Federation.
According to option No. XXUMX, the Ukrainians themselves could have been knocked down, but not according to a cunning plan, but with fright. In those days they were intimidated by the massive invasion of Russia, which of course had to begin with the landing of airborne troops or air raids. Considering how the case is set in the Ukrainian army, one cannot exclude the fact that they, without target designation and a coherent command, shot themselves out according to Boeing.

[Karislav]

There was information that, not long before the events, the militia seized part of the Buk air defense systems from the Ukrainians. - ON ALL CHANNELS ... was? -It was !!!! look at our tv archives

[Sergey Zhikharev]

So what? Accuse all men of rape - there is an apparatus! Since the provocation was conceived, it was advantageous for the DLNR to transfer (so that the militia would capture) one BUK.

[Nikolaevich I]

But you never know what "was"! I remember something from that time! How many messages were then "voiced" and then refuted or changed! ? First, there was a message that the territory of the deployment of the Lugansk anti-aircraft missile regiment was occupied ... then there was a message from the Armed Forces of Ukraine (!) That by this time the anti-aircraft missile regiment had left the place of deployment along with the main weapons! There were pictures where there was an image of only one SOU and then it was not working! The APU-shniki, throwing the installation, spoiled everything in it! In the warehouses of the military unit, only ZU-23-2 and ZPU-2 were found from anti-aircraft weapons ...

[Ural resident]

Everything is correct, except that the militia did not shoot from any beech, and simply could not. And they didn’t capture it - they got only one element of the beech, which alone cannot shoot, ..

[Alex_59]

Quote: Resident of the Urals

And they didn’t capture them - they only got one element of the beech tree, which cannot shoot by itself,

The fact of the matter is that the Buk air defense missile system (one might say the only one in the world in its class) has a self-propelled firing unit (SPG) that can conduct autonomous combat operations without the participation of other vehicles in the kit. Its illumination-guidance radar (RPN) has a backup "survey" mode of operation. This is done to increase the survivability of the complex in case the surveillance radar or the control center from the battery kit is suppressed. Naturally, the SDU alone cannot illuminate the air situation as fully as a surveillance radar with a control point does. But nevertheless, if this is required, the SDU can detect targets itself, and then switch to the backlight to fire at them.
All other "multi-machine" air defense systems do not know how.

[New Year day]

Quote: Alex_59

the truth is neither needed by Ukraine, nor the USA, nor Russia, nor the militias.

it is precisely said, therefore we will not recognize her.

[Antares]

Quote: Alex_59

by Boeing.

quite reasonable versions / theories.
It's just that here is a fundamental confrontation and a willingness to develop it.
A mistake, nobody cares. She set such masses in motion that the grain of sand is no longer important.

[midshipman]

I had to participate in an accident investigation. Almaz-Antey Concern has documented that this is a business of Ukrainians. In general, ICAO should have forbidden flights over the trajectory where military operations are being conducted. Remember how the Ukrainians shot down an Israeli plane over the Black Sea from the S-200. Everyone should be clear whose hands this business.

[Antares]

Quote: midshipman

Almaz-Antey Concern has documented that this is a business of Ukrainians.

this is usually done by the general commission. Not a developer.
After all, the international commission and the investigation of one developer have different weight.
Moreover, without the data of all participants in the process. Absolutely different weight due to the availability of data.

Quote: midshipman

In general, ICAO should have forbidden flights over the trajectory where military operations

flights below the echelon of 10 thousand meters were banned just on the recommendation of ICAO (the height of the defeat of MANPADS), but it does not remove Ukraine's guilt for the need to close all echelons. Ours are just profitably spinning the "Russian beech" (this removes some of the blame for the echelons, because the "militia beech" will raise questions, even if it is argued that this is a military organization)

Remember how Ukrainians shot down an Israeli plane over the Black Sea from S-200

paid ex gratia compensation, but did not confess but "executed" the generals involved.
I do not understand what the word

Ukrainians

now allowed? After all, the rules indicate that you can’t nicknames of Russian, Ukrainians and others .. and you are already 2 times in a row.

Everyone should be clear whose hands this business.

emotionally, you can blame everyone except yourself. But this is not proof of guilt.
And the principle - HE IS EXACTLY GUILTY because he did it already once - also does not work.
Well, the plane shot down the USSR - so can it be blamed now? The United States also shot down - let's blame them. But not - the Libyans for sure ..

[Alex_59]

Quote: Antares

flights below the echelon 10 thousand meters were banned just at the recommendation of ICAO (the height of destruction of MANPADS)

Not frail such MANPADS, with shooting at 10 kilometers in height.

[Ural resident]

Great work fake news. They were accused without proof, they are trying to force them to justify themselves, to press to take the blame upon themselves. If there was evidence, it would have been posted long ago, who would have doubted it. A couple of decades later, Dutch elderly experts will say that the Boeing was shot down by the Ukrainian military under the leadership of the CIA, and then they say they were ordered to say something else. But no one will be interested in this anymore, it is important to form an opinion here and now. Here the professor stands up for the tribunal, and so do we, only it was proposed to create a tribunal over Russia, as if automatically admitting her guilt, to which naturally no one agreed. But the tribunal is necessary for the real culprits, and over Turchinov and over all this Bandera offspring, the employees of foreign special services, who settled in the SBU building in Kiev and started all this bloody mess in Ukraine, also need a tribunal. We need a tribunal, only not in The Hague, but in the city of Slavyansk, which was the first to take the blow. This is how it should be called: "Slavic Tribunal" over fascist criminals.

[BAI]

I just read an article on this topic in the Novaya Gazeta, but of an anti-Russian orientation.
Indeed, there are questions that are hushed up and the author bypassed them too:
1. Why did the versions of Russia change - first an attack aircraft, then a rocket?
2. Why no one, including the author, recalls the results of the Almaz-Antey experiment?
But, the main thing in everything - if at least something was against Russia - they would have long been presented.

[Bodipancher]

It is curious why among the suspects there are only FSB officers and GRUS officers. They by default could not launch this rocket. Immediately it seems that the investigation is a complete linden! The Malaysians clearly indicated that the investigation did not indicate who was sitting at the console, who gave the order, and so on.

[Strashila]

The only obvious thing in this matter is that the Boeing was hit by a Buk missile, nothing more. The most stupid statement is that the militia had a certain mythical Buk complex, well, naturally of Russian origin. So this is the main culprit of the investigation, in order to bring down the plane, taking into account the battles in Yugoslavia, you need a surveillance radar, a guidance station, and where without it, which were included only in Ukraine, just a guide for launching a rocket, just a guide exposed to the right point in space . The dispatcher took the plane to this point, and then gave the equipment. So actually the Serbs brought down the invisibility of the Americans. You yourself understand the difference in dimensions, the Buk tracked complex and just a transport trolley with a guide that could be installed as close to the position of the militias as possible. And another question that the investigation did not answer, the flight of the missile is not instantaneous, which is why Ukraine did not warn Boeing pilots about the threat of a missile launch, because this is a combat zone and it is constantly monitored, and any main inclusion of a guidance station belonging to non-Ukraine should absolutely it was detected by APU REB stations and measures were taken to suppress its work, but there were no statements from the APU about such work, which means that only regular stations of Ukraine worked and only they.

[Alex_59]

in order to bring down the aircraft, taking into account the battles in Yugoslavia, it is necessary to have a surveillance radar, a guidance station, where not without it

The detection station and the guidance station are mounted on a self-propelled firing unit BEECH, so that the funds you have listed from the complex are not required. The Beech launcher is able to conduct combat operations autonomously. Read here: http://pvo.guns.ru/buk/buk_01.htm

Quote: Strashila

the main any turning on of the station of guidance belonging not to Ukraine, absolutely had to be noticed by stations EW VSU

Turning on the target illumination station can only be detected by the target itself. Such radars use an extremely narrow radiation pattern, so that an observer who is away from the target cannot detect the fact of the work of the sighting station.

Quote: Strashila

and measures to suppress her work

You can crush knowing the parameters of radiation, and they (see above) can not be detected by anyone. Plus, to push it is necessary to know where to push, that is, to have a bearing on the radiator, that is, again, see the comments above - no one can determine where the civilian airplane is being irradiated, as well as the fact of such irradiation.

Quote: Strashila

the rocket flight is not instantaneous, for which Ukraine has not warned the Boeing pilots

Well, even if warned. Anyway, there would be no chance for Boeing to survive. Where is he going?

[Operator]

The manufacturer of Buk missiles, PJSC DNPP (formerly Dolgoprudnenskiy machine-building plant), has documented (engine log, product summary, accepted production log) that the serial number of the nozzle and engine of the missile that shot down the Malaysian Boeing corresponds to the munition transferred in 1986 223- mu ZRP stationed on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR. The documents on the removal of the missile from the territory of the Ukrainian SSR / Ukraine have not yet been submitted.

Therefore, all questions on the downing of Boeing should be presented exclusively to Ukraine, the successor of the Ukrainian SSR, which is not yet observed from the word at all. We are waiting for the announced "final" report of the international commission next month.

If the international commission again ignores (does not confirm or does not refute) the official response of the manufacturer of the rocket, then this will be an unequivocal evidence of the guilt of Ukraine in the shooting down of Boeing.

[NKT]

The 404s came up with an excuse for this. The missiles, including this one, were delivered to Georgia. Well, in August 2008 they were "captured" by Russian troops.
A new game starts today. Probably, I will procrastinate a new "version" that this missile was sold to them in the DPR - agents of the FSB, GRU or SVR, in order to "substitute" 404.

[val]

What does the commission have to do with it? The matter has already reached the trial. And since when is Ukraine the legal successor of the Ukrainian SSR? That Russia is the legal successor of the USSR, I heard that.

[Antares]

Quote: val

And since when is Ukraine the legal successor of the Ukrainian SSR? That Russia is the legal successor of the USSR, I heard that.

only a place in the UN and the administrative borders of the republics.

[VVAU]

  "You cannot kill the innocent and avoid the consequences"   
 Statement by the families of those killed in the MH17 disaster to the Russian Federation in connection with the fifth anniversary of the tragedy.   
 https://www.novayagazeta.ru/articles/2019/07/16/81268-zayavlenie-semey-pogibshih-v-katastrofe-mn17-v-adres-rossiyskoy-federatsii-v-svyazi-s-pyatoy-godovschinoy-tragedii

[olimpiada15]

Boeing passengers became victims of Western provocation in order to blame Russia for the crash. Therefore, the investigation is conducted by those who are tasked with blaming the Russian Federation. Since this is not true, to prove the existence of an absent fact is a difficult task, the pseudo investigation is limited to air shaking and spelling letters on the principle of water and stone whet. These are the Russian partners, it is a pity that the meaning and result of the interaction of such a partnership is not understood by those who are obliged to draw appropriate conclusions and take certain measures on duty.

[Operator]

Quote: NKT

The 404s came up with an excuse for this. The missiles, including this one, were delivered to Georgia. Well, in August 2008 they were "captured" by Russian troops

There is little to come up with - for the investigation and the court, documents are needed: a supply contract, invoices, an acceptance certificate, a Georgian act of writing off a missile in connection with a loss. After that, a forensic examination of the authenticity of documents (paper, ink, positions, surnames, dates, etc.) should take place.

So far, everyone knows about documents from the manufacturer of the rocket, and about documents from operators - one tame on the Internet.

[VVAU]

Quote: Fedorov

Tu-154 over the Black Sea shot down hell he knows who. There was a court almost international in the specific presence of Russia. Proved, justified. The S-200 couldn’t physically do this, we regiment practically discussed it (sorry, but many air defense officers are not easy to get hold of). But the Ukrainian side decided not to bother, paid the wabble and everything calmed down, maybe in these games the pitfalls were like drinking to give ..

Indeed, Putin’s words that Ukraine has no means to bring down an aircraft at such a range. This was quoted by those who heard all this on the brief of Venediktov.
Sin that the Israelis missed the bookmark at the airport.
In general, if there was, mutual fault. These were joint CIS firing from a Russian firing range in Crimea. Head of firing from Russia.

[iouris]

There is no truth - there is a post-truth. One for all. Nobody hides her, not even the opposite.

[VVAU]

On June 28, Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte held secret talks with Putin.

On June 29, Rutte reported on the fact of the negotiations, at the same time refusing to provide their details: I can not say anything about this. The discussion should be confidential, including due to the extremely high sensitivity of the topic. It is very important to use every opportunity to talk with the Russian leadership about MH17. ” He also did not say how Putin reacted. “I can only say what I say in such a conversation. "I can never say what my interlocutor answered because of confidentiality, and also because it would be wrong if I spoke on behalf of my interlocutor." In his commentary on the negotiations with Putin, the Dutch prime minister used the same formula as his colleagues from the Foreign Ministries of the Netherlands and Australia - "the inability to go into the content of the talks because of their sensitivity and confidentiality."

On July 4, a blog post was posted on this blog stating that Putin was involved in negotiations on Russia's state responsibility for the downed MH17 and the assumption that the subject of sensitive, sensitive, confidential negotiations is obviously the amount of compensation to the victims of the terrorist act, as well as recognition (or non-recognition) of the state responsible for the attack, sponsor of international terrorism.

On the morning of July 5, in the morning, A. Venediktov confirmed the fact of the ongoing negotiations. And the fact that two issues are discussed during the negotiations, mentioned in the July 4 note - the issue of compensation and the issue of state responsibility: The negotiations are just talking that in case of compensation to the families of victims of the collapse of MH17 there will be no state responsibility.
https://echo.msk.ru/blog/aillar/2467157-echo/

[APASUS]

The truth will come up when it can no longer play a role in political games, it can’t be a political argument. I think so in 30 years. Perhaps of course and faster, but then Ukraine should split into several states and such infa will not play a role in relations with new states.