Heroes of epics and their possible prototypes

165
Ever since the appearance of the Collection of Kirsha Danilov (the first recordings of Russian epics) there has been fierce debate about the possibility or impossibility of correlating these texts with some real ones. historical events.

Heroes of epics and their possible prototypes

Russian folk epic, publication of the Sytin partnership




First of all, perhaps, we will define the terms: what exactly should be considered an epic, and what is the difference between the epic and the fairy tale. And is there a fundamental difference: maybe epic is just a kind of heroic fairy tale?

Fairytales and fairy tales


The word "epic" directly indicates the concept of "profit". This is not in doubt, but it is not proof of the reality of the plots and their characters used in the genre. The point is that at the first stage both the storytellers themselves and their listeners believed in the reality of the events that were discussed in these stories. This was the fundamental difference between the epic and the fairy tale, which was initially perceived by all as fiction. Bylina was also presented as a narration about old times, when things could happen, in the present it is absolutely impossible. And only later, with the appearance of obviously fantastic plots in them, epics by many began to be perceived as heroic tales.

A confirmation of this assumption may be, for example, the “Word about the regiment of Igor”: his author immediately warns readers that he begins his “song” “by the epics of this time” and not “according to the design of Bojan”. Paying tribute to this poet, he clearly hints that the works of Boyan, unlike his own, are the fruit of poetic inspiration and author's fantasy.

But why did the "epic" suddenly become almost synonymous with a fairy tale? For this, one should say "thank you" to the first researchers of Russian folklore, who in the middle of the 19th century for some reason called this word "old times" - songs-stories about very old times, that is, old times recorded in the Russian North.

In the modern sense of the word "epic" is used as a philological term, denoting folk songs with a specific content and specific artistic form.

"General" and "historical" approaches in the study of heroic epics


The most fierce disputes among researchers are caused by “heroic epics”, which tells about the heroes fighting the enemies of Russia, who sometimes appear in the guise of various monsters. Fights of bogatyrs, their fights among themselves and even appearances against the unjust prince are also described. There are two approaches to the interpretation of these plots and characters, and, accordingly, the researchers divided into two camps.

Proponents of the general approach to the epic as a reflection of the processes occurring in society at different stages of its development, tend to see echoes of the customs of deep antiquity here. In their opinion, heroic epics retain vague memories of animistic beliefs, the struggle for hunting grounds and the gradual transition to agriculture, the formation of the early feudal state.

Researchers professing a "historical approach" among the fantastic narrative are trying to highlight the real details and even link them with specific facts recorded in historical sources.

At the same time, the researchers of both schools consider in their works only the relevant facts, declaring “unnecessary” “superficial” or “later”.

Prince and peasant


Both approaches to the study of epics have their advantages and disadvantages. So, let's say, the opposition of Volga (Volkha) to Vseslavich (sometimes Svyatoslavovich) and Mikula Selyaninovich is interpreted by the first group of authors as a contradiction between a hunter and a farmer, or they consider the free peasant to conflict with the feudal lord.


A. Vasnetsov, "Mikula Selyaninovich"



"Volga". Kazan, museum of K. Vasilyev


And the researchers of the historical school are trying to identify Volga with the real princes - some with the Prophetic Oleg, but most, of course - with Vseslav of Polotsk. It was for this prince in Russia that the reputation of a sorcerer and a sorcerer was entrenched. It was even argued that Vseslav was born from the "sorcery", and in the year of his birth there was "the sign of Zmievo in heaven" in Russia. In 1092, during the reign of Vseslav, miracles, about which it is time to make horror films, were completely gone. Nestor reports (adaptation of the quote to the modern Russian language):

“A miraculous miracle was presented in Polotsk. At night, there was a tramp, demons, like people moaning, scouring the streets. If someone left the house, wanting to see, he was immediately hurt by demons and died of it, and no one dared leave the house. Then the demons began during the day, to appear on horses, but they themselves were not visible, only the horses of their hooves were visible. And so they injured people in Polotsk and its region. Therefore, people said that they beat the people of Polochk. "


Usually, this incident is explained by the epidemic of a disease afflicting Polotsk. However, it should be recognized that this description of the "mora" looks very much allegorical, nothing like this can be found on the pages of the chronicles. Perhaps, under the guise of "naviyev" acted some kind of bold band of thieves? Let us recall the famous “skipjacks” (they were also called “living dead”) of post-revolutionary Petrograd. Or, alternatively, the secret operation of Vseslav himself, who could have dealt with the disgruntled citizens and political opponents in that way in that way, and “assign” demons to the guilty.

And here is how these "Navii" are depicted on the pages of the Radziwill Chronicle (end of the 15th century, stored in the Library of the Academy of Sciences in St. Petersburg):





The author of the Word about the regiment of Igor also believed in Vseslav’s magical abilities. He still remembered stories that at the moment of danger Vseslav could disappear, enveloping himself in a blue mist, and appear elsewhere. In addition, he allegedly knew how to turn into a wolf: “He jumped from wolf to Nemiga from Dudutok”. In the guise of a wolf, he could get from Kiev to Tmuthorokani (on the shore of the Kerch Strait) overnight: "Vseslav-Prince ruled the court for people, ordered the princes of the city, and scoured the wolf in the night: from Kiev he jumped to the Tmutorkan roosters."


Prince Vseslav, a monument in Polotsk


Geography of Russian epics



One of the variants of the epic world map


The action of heroic epics is always somehow tied to Kiev - even if the main action takes place in some other place, it either begins in Kiev, or someone from the heroes goes there. At the same time, the epic Kiev with the real sometimes has little in common. For example, some heroes go to Chernigov from Kiev and back, and from Kiev to Tsargrad - along the Volga. The Pochaina River (Pucha-river of many epics), flowing within the boundaries of modern Kiev (in June 2015, Mr. Morine managed to prove that the Obolon system of the Opechen lakes is the former channel of the Pochaina river), is described in epics as very far and dangerous - " fiery. "


Pochayna River


In it, contrary to the prohibition of the mother, Dobrynya Nikitich bathes (and here Snakes takes him by surprise). And Mikhail Potyk (the Novgorodian hero who “moved” to Kiev epics) on the banks of this river met his, enchanting wife, Avdotya, White Swan, daughter of the king Vahramey, who came from a foreign world.


Ivan Bilibin, Mikhailo Potyk. 1902 year


In the final of the epic Avdotya, animated by Potik (who had to go to the grave behind her and kill the Snake there), as a gratitude, she ran off to Koshchei Immortal and along with him nearly destroyed the bogatyr.


Mikhail Potyk fights with the Serpent in the grave of his wife, illustration to the epic


The fact is that the Mongolian devastation of South-Western Russia led to a massive outflow of the population to the east and northeast - and in present-day Ryazan, for example, the Pereyaslav river Trubezh, the Kiev Lybed and even the Danube (now called Dunaychik) appeared .


Ryazan: "Kiev" Lybid River flows into the "Pereyaslavskaya" River Trubezh


The territories that fell into the sphere of Lithuanian and Polish influence did not even preserve the memory of the “old” (epics). But on the territory of Russia, the epic "Kiev cycle" was recorded in Moscow province (3), in Nizhny Novgorod (6), in Saratov (10), in Simbirsk (22), in Siberia (29), in Arkhangelsk (34), and finally, in Olonets, around 300. In the Russian North, “antiquities” were recorded at the beginning of the twentieth century; this region is sometimes called “Iceland of the Russian Epos”. But local narrators thoroughly forgot the geography of Kievan Rus, hence the number of inconsistencies.

However, the geographical inconsistency is especially characteristic of the bylin of the Kiev cycle, Novgorod in this respect is much more real. Here, for example, Sadko’s route “to foreign countries”: Volkhov - Lake Ladoga - Neva - Baltic Sea. Vasily Buslaev, going to Jerusalem, swims up the Lovat, then goes down the Dnieper to the Black Sea, visits Constantinople (Constantinople), bathes in the Jordan River. On the way back he dies on Sorochinsky mountain - near the Tsaritsa River (in fact, the territory of Volgograd).

Prince Vladimir of Russian epics


The complexity of studying epics as possible sources is also determined by the fact that the Russian oral folk tradition does not have clear dates. Time for storytellers is almost always limited to an indication of the reign of Vladimir Red Sun. This ruler, who became the embodiment of popular ideas about the ideal prince - the defender of his native land, most often see Vladimir Svyatoslavich, the baptist of Russia (1015 died). However, it is more reasonable to recognize the opinion that this image is synthetic, incorporating the features of Vladimir Vsevolodovich Monomakh (1053-1125) as well.


Prince Vladimir, shot from the Soviet film 1956



Smirnov A., "Feast at Prince Vladimir"


The storytellers, by the way, believed that the patronymic of their prince Vladimir was Vseslavich. I agree with A.N. Veselovsky, who studied the southern German poem Ortnit written in the first half of the 13th century, came to the conclusion that the name of the father of King Russia, Valdimara, is "a modified German equivalent of the Slavic name Vseslav" (more about this poem will be discussed in the next article) .

But another strong and authoritative Russian prince - Yaroslav Vladimirovich (Wise) did not become a hero of epics. Historians believe that the reason for this was the great love of Jaroslav, married to the Swedish princess, to the Scandinavians around him, on whom he traditionally relied in the war with his brothers and other military affairs. And that is why he did not enjoy the special love and popularity of the local, Kiev squad defeated by the Novgorodians and the Vikings, and overshadowed by the soldiers of the local, Kiev squad.

In some cases, the reference to Prince Vladimir in Russian epics obviously serves as an idiomatic expression, which over time was supplanted by the phrase "it was under Tsar Pea".

The whole conventionality of dating and character bindings to certain individuals is illustrated by the mention of rubber galoshes of Prince Vladimir in one of the versions of epic, recorded in the Russian North at the beginning of the twentieth century. However, I would not be surprised if, at the Ukrainian Institute of National Memory, they would guess to use this text as evidence of the discovery by America of the ancient Ukrainians in the 10th century (after all, rubber was brought from there). Therefore, Mr. Vyatrovich V.M. This article is better not to show.

Proponents of the historical school, confirming the version of Monomakh as a prototype of Vladimir, see in the epic of Stavre Gordyatinich and his wife, who changed into a man's dress in order to help out her unlucky husband. According to the chronicles, in 1118, Vladimir Monomakh summoned all the boyars from Novgorod to Kiev and forced him to swear allegiance. Some of them angered the prince and were thrown into prison, including a certain Stavr (by the way, on the wall of the St. Sophia Cathedral in Kiev, the autograph of some Stavr was opened - it is not a fact that this particular Novgorod).


Vladimir Monomakh, a monument in Smolensk


Alyosha Popovich


In historical sources you can also find the name of Alyosha Popovich. Here is what the Nikon chronicle says:
"In the summer of 6508 (1000) Volodar came with the Polovtsy to Kiev, having forgotten the blessing of his prince Vladimir, the demon taught him. Vladimir was then in Pereyaslavets on the Danube, and there was great confusion in Kiev, and Alexander Popovich went at night to meet them, and killed Alexander Volodar and his brother, and others Polovtsy many beat, and others in the field drove out. And having learned about it, Vladimir rejoiced very much, and laid a gold hryvnia on his, and made him a nobleman in his ward. "


From this passage it can be concluded that it was Alyosha who became the first person in Russia to be awarded the distinction for military merits - the hryvnia (she was worn around her neck). At a minimum, the first of those on awarding just for military prowess is indicated in the written source.

But in this case, we see a clear mistake of the scribe - by as many 100 years: Volodar Rostislavich, indeed, came along with the Polovtsy to Kiev - in 1100. It was Vladimir Monomakh’s time, but he reigned in Pereyaslavl Russian (not on the Danube!). The prince of Kiev was Svyatopolk, Volodar fought with him, who, by the way, was not killed and survived.

B.A. Rybakov, who "found" the prototypes of almost all the heroes of the epic, identified Alyosha Popovich with Vladimir Monomakh's retainer Olbeg Ratiborovich. This warrior participated in the murder of the Polovtsian Khan Itlar, who arrived for negotiations. And Itlar, in the opinion of Rybakov, is none other than the Pagan Idol. However, it is not Alyosha Popovich, but Ilya Muromets who fights with Russian Idol in Russian epics.

In the abbreviated chronicle of 1493, we again see the familiar name:
"In the summer of 6725 (1217), there was a battle between Prince Yury Vsevolodovich and Prince Konstantin (Vsevolodovich) Rostovsky on the river Where, and God helped Prince Konstantin Vsevolodovich, the eldest brother, and he really came. And there were two brave men (the hero) with him: Dobrynya Golden Belt yes Alexander Popovich, with a servant his Torop. "


Once again, Alesha Popovich is mentioned in the story of the Battle of Kalka (1223). In this battle, he dies - like many other warriors.


A.P. Ryabushkin. "Alyosha Popovich". Illustration for the book "Russian epic warriors", 1895 year


Nikitich


The Golden Belt Dobrynya, which was discussed above, “damaged” the beautiful version that the prototype of this epic hero was Uncle Vladimir Svyatoslavich by his mother, “the voivode, a brave and managerial husband” (Laurentian Chronicle). The one that ordered Vladimir to rape Rogned in front of her parents (a message from the Laurentian and Radziwill chronicles dating back to the Vladimir Column 1205) and "baptized Novgorod with fire." However, the epic Dobrynya is from Ryazan, and is completely different in character from the governor of the Baptist.


Dobrynya Nikitich and Zabava Putyatichna, illustration by E. Kibrika


It is also difficult to identify the epic Dobrynya and Uncle Vladimir Svyatoslavich as well as the heroic feat of sergeants.

Opponents of the Russian Warriors


There are good reasons to believe that all the epics telling about the struggle of Russian warriors with snakes, in fact, narrate about the wars of Kievan Rus and the nomadic Polovtsi that appeared in the southern Dnieper region in the middle of the XI century. This version is followed, in particular, by S.A. Pletnev (in the monograph “Polovtsy”).


Polovtsy from the burial near the village of Kvashnikovo, reconstruction


The name of the Kai tribe, who headed the Kipchak union (as the Polovtsi was called in Central Asia), translated into Russian means "snake". The Polovtsian saying "seven heads of a snake" (by the number of main tribes) was widely known in the Steppe; Arab and Chinese historians cite it in their writings.


Snake Gorynych kidnaps Zaba Putyatichna, illustration 1894



Duke Stepanovich, illustration 1894


After the victory over the Polovtsy in 1103, in one of the chronicles it is explicitly said that Vladimir Monomakh was "crushing the serpent head". Some historians suggest that under the name of Tugarin Zmeyevich Polovtsian Khan Tugorkan entered Russian epics.

It is curious that not only epic heroes fight with Snakes, but also some heroes of Russian fairy tales. Border of serpentine possessions served as the famous river Smorodina - the left tributary of the Dnieper Samara (Sneporod) - Kalinov bridge was thrown across it, on which Ivan-peasant son fought with many-headed Serpents.


K. Vasiliev. "On the Kalinov Bridge". 1974 city, museum of Kolomna



Samara River (formerly Currant), modern photo: nothing terrible and unusual


On the other hand, in the epics, the serpent Gorynych’s blood is said to be black and not absorbed into the ground. This allowed some researchers to suggest that in this case we are talking about the use of oil and fire shells during the siege of Russian cities. Such weapon could be used by the Mongols, in the troops of which were Chinese engineers. Moreover, in some bylins, Tatar khans - Baty, Mamai, and Kalin-Tsar's Dog oppose Kiev and the bogatyrs (“Dog” at the beginning of the name is not an insult, but an official title). “The Kalin-Tsar dog” in epic words is called “the king of forty kings and forty kings,” some researchers suggest that the name Mengu-Kaan could be transformed in this way. However, there is another, rather unexpected version, according to which this name hides ... Kaloyan, the Bulgarian Tsar, who ruled in 1197-1207. He successfully fought with the Crusaders of the Latin Emperor Baldwin, and with the Byzantines. It was the Byzantines who, for their cruelty to the captives, called him the Romeocton (the murderer of the Romans), and the name was altered in “Skilioan” - “John the Dog”. In 1207, Kaloyan died during the siege of Thessaloniki. The delighted Greeks even said that the Bulgarian tsar was struck in his tent by the patron saint of the city, Dmitry Solunsky. This legend, which became part of the life of this saint, together with the Greek priests came to Russia, and gradually transformed into an epic story. It is believed that this happened after the Battle of Kulikovo, when Kaloyan was identified with Mamai, and Dmitry Donskoy - with his heavenly patron, Dmitry Solunsky.


Dmitry Solunsky, a Greek icon of the 13th century, written in full accordance with the canon. Private Diocese Collection, Veria



"The Miracle of Dimitry Solunsky about Tsar Kaloyan", Russian icon of the beginning of the 17th century, Kargopol State Museum. The icon painter withdrew from the canon, depicting Kaloyan on horseback


But let us go back a little, in the times of the Polovtsy. Some researchers of folklore believe that the name of the Polovtsian Khan Bonyak, who in addition to campaigns on Russia, made raids on Byzantine possessions, Bulgaria, Hungary, in Western Ukrainian songs could be preserved in the story about the head of the Cossack ataman Bunyaki Sheludivy: severed, this head rolls on the ground everything in its path. In Lviv legends, “Cossack” Bunyak is a negative hero, which is understandable, since he was a terrible enemy of the Poles, and Lviv was a Polish city for centuries. However, in other texts, Bunyak is called a Polovtsian bogatyr, a Tatar khan, a Tatar sorcerer, simply a robber. The epithet "silly" in this case is not an insult: this is how people were called at that time, about whom they now say "born in a chemise". Part of the "shirts" in the form of a dried flap of skin was long preserved on the head, sometimes even in an adult. Outwardly, of course, it looked ugly, but, on the other hand, it was often a sign of a certain peculiarity, chosenness: prince Vseslav of Polotsk, for example, was scrawny. According to the legend, Bonyak, too, like Vseslav, knew a wolf tongue and could turn into a wolf. In many fairy tales and epics, heroes, choosing a horse, stop their choice on silky foals.

Another Polovtsian Khan - Sharukan, according to some researchers, in the epic is called Kudrevanko-tsar or Shark-giant. Interestingly, his son (Atrak) and grandson (famous for Konchak’s “The Word of Igor’s Regiment”) entered the epics under their own names (true, the nature of family relations is confused):

"It rises to Kiev and Kudrevanko-tsar
And yes, with a beloved son, Atrak,
He is with his beloved son and everything with Konshik ... "



"Gzak and Konchak", modern illustration


But not all nomads are negative heroes of Russian epics. Dobrynya’s exemplary wife, Nastasya Nikulichna, was from a nomadic tribe, moreover a heathen. During the first meeting with the hero, she "pulled him off the saddle" - so they say about the capture with the help of the lasso.


Dobrynya Nikitich meets his future wife - Nastasya Nikulichna, illustration 1894


And the first thing that Dobrynya does when she returns home is “she leads her to the baptized wife”.

Mystery of saint


The most mysterious hero of Russian epics is, of course, Svyatogor, who cannot be worn by his native land, and therefore he spends his life in foreign mountains. Many supporters of the historical approach immediately "identified" in him the grandson of Rurik - Svyatoslav Igorevich, who constantly "searched for foreign lands", and the Russian land and Kiev in his absence suffered from the attacks of the Pechenegs.


K. Chelushkin. "Svyatogor"


But not everything is so simple. V.Ya. Propp (one of the most well-known supporters of the “general approach”) contrasts him with the rest of the Russian bogatyrs of the Kiev cycle, considering the figure to be absolutely archaic, coming into Russian epos from pre-Slavonic times.


Slobodchikov V. G. "Svyatogor"



N.K. Roerich. "Svyatogor", 1938-1942.


But B.A. Rybakov, on the contrary, believed that the image of Svyatoslav was "aged" at a later time. Answering the question posed by him: “the mythological image was being crushed or the titanic features of the hero gradually increased around an insignificant real basis,” he favors the second version. As evidence of his point of view, he cites a tale written by A.D. Grigoriev in Kuzmin Gorodok, Arkhangelsk Region. In this epic, Svyatogor Romanovich is not a simple bogatyr, but the head of the Chernigov Prince Oleg squad (in another version, Olgovich). He leads his warriors to the east - "in a wide expanse, to fight the power of Prince Dodonov."


Svyatogor. Illustration to the epic


In the steppe, Chernigov meet three Kiev bogatyrs - Ilya Muromets, Dobrynya and Plesh. Having united, they together went to the sea, and on the way they found in the field "a great stone, a great coffin stood by that stone". For fun, the warriors took turns to climb into the coffin, and when Svjatogor lay down in the coffin, they seemed to be completely merry, "put a lid on that white coffin", but could not remove it.


Ilya Muromets and Svyatogor, illustration 1894


From the above Rybakov concludes that in the original version of the epic, it could have been a satirical work written in Kiev, ridiculing hapless Chernigov warriors. And only in later narrators brought elements of high tragedy into the plot of epic. But, in my opinion, the opposite situation is also possible: some drunken local “Boyan” decided to play the game, and reinterpreted the plot of the heroic epic, writing a parody of it.

"Heroes" and "heroes" of modern Russia


And nowadays, unfortunately, we can see patterns of such “hooliganism” - in the same modern cartoons about the “Three Heroes”, whose mental level, according to the scriptwriters, clearly leaves much to be desired. Or in the sensational film “The Last Knight”, where the main negative hero turned out to be the most intelligent and courteous hero, Dobrynya, Ilya Muromets’s “cross brother” (after all, it was possible to give this character any other neutral name). However, in my opinion, the creators of another mediocre kinopodorki, Legends of the Kolovrat, surpassed everyone. Evpaty Kolovrat, of course, an epic-level hero, whether he is an Englishman or a Frenchman, in Hollywood would make a very beautiful and pathetic film about him as good as "Spartacus" or "Braveheart."


Monument to Evpaty Kolovrat, Ryazan


And our “masters of the arts” exposed the hero to an incompetent and even socially dangerous disabled person, who has a place in a distant monastery, but not in the squad of the Ryazan prince. Because who knows, who will tell him one morning: maybe he is not the Ryazan boyar, but a deeply conspiratorial Kiev (Chernigov, Novgorod, Tmutorki) saboteur, who was sent to kill the disagreeable prince. But now "there is a cloudless sky over all of Spain", and "it is raining in Santiago" - it's time to go kill.

In fact, this is not at all harmless, but, on the contrary, very dangerous, because the creators of all these libels are trying to recode national consciousness, replacing the correct works with fakes. In which Evpaty Kolovrat is a mentally handicapped disabled person, Alyosha Popovich is a moron with the brain of an 5-year-old child, Dobrynya Nikitich is a dishonest schemer and traitor, and Ilya Muromets is a superstitious martinet.

But let's not talk about sad things. After all, we still have not told anything about the most beloved Russian bogatyr - Ilya Muromets. But the story about him will be quite large, a separate article will be devoted to this hero.


The correct Ilya Muromets from the Soviet film 1956
165 comments
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  1. +16
    15 June 2019 05: 54
    Very informative article, thanks!
    I will add a few thoughts.
    "Paying tribute to this poet, he clearly hints that the works of Boyan, unlike his own, are the fruit of poetic inspiration and authorial fantasy."
    - “authors” in the period of pre-class society did not fantasize anything, their work is the fruit of mass consciousness, adorned with additional epithets, no more.
    About Yaroslav the Wise:
    And that is why he did not enjoy the special love and popularity of the local, Kiev squad defeated by the Novgorodians and the Vikings, and overshadowed by the soldiers of the local, Kiev squad.

    There were no city squads, a squad — always with the prince: no prince — no squad. The city had a city militia: a regiment or a thousand consisting of citizens — a war. Many princes did not fall into epics - and this is really a question.
    However, everyone, in my opinion, was "surpassed" by the creators of another mediocre filmmaking - "The Legends of Kolovrat". Evpatiy Kolovrat is undoubtedly a hero of an epic level, whether he is an Englishman or a Frenchman, a very beautiful and pretentious film about him would be shot about him in Hollywood, no worse than "Spartacus" or "Braveheart".

    But it’s hard to disagree with this conclusion, having such a fantastic source material - and making films of such awful, amateurish level films - spoils the whole idea of ​​our history: it’s better than that.
    1. VLR
      +6
      15 June 2019 11: 15
      Good day. A small explanation of the prince's squad.
      I had in mind the "senior squad", the most authoritative members of which were under the former prince "firemen" They could already have from the former rulers of the land in the principality. And they were dissatisfied with the Novgorodians and Scandinavians who came with Yaroslav, who "pushed" them aside, and the "best men" of them themselves were not averse to becoming landowners - to the detriment of the local, of course. I don’t think that Yaroslav didn’t use "old shots" at all. But there was not much trust between them. "His" Novgorodians and Varangians, of course, seemed to him more reliable than the locals. And, for this reason, the people of Fire disliked Yaroslav, a stranger to them.
      1. +1
        15 June 2019 20: 29
        The article is interesting, thanks. But I want to make a small correction. In the article, much attention is paid to the Polovtsy, and even the author put the picture: "Gzak and Konchak." Please note that both heroes of the illustration are clearly of the Mongoloid type. This is not true. Polovtsy had a pronounced Caucasoid appearance. We called them Polovtsi because of the color of their hair, which was light as straw (POLOVA from Old Russian). Although in principle, this is not surprising. Our nomad has always been associated with the quick-eyed horseman, and the Polovtsy, with the onslaught of the Horde, quickly disappeared from the forefront of History. And it was no longer possible to compare a real Polovtsian with a hero of epics. True, the disappearance of the Polovtsians is also not correct. The Polovtsians moved to the Balkans, mainly to Hungary. They even have a province called Kumania (second name) of the Polovtsians. And the Hungarians themselves from these nomads adopted a lot of things, for example, horse breeding and an increased emphasis on cavalry in military affairs. As we know, a hussar is a Hungarian “invention”. hi
        1. -1
          15 June 2019 20: 49
          In fact, the Magyars did not need to adopt anything from the Polovtsy, especially horse breeding, because they themselves were initially nomads
          1. 0
            15 June 2019 21: 03
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            In fact, the Magyars did not need to adopt anything from the Polovtsy, especially horse breeding, because they themselves were initially nomads
            Do not minimize the influence of the Polovtsy on the “native” Hungarians. There was even a papal
            bull forbidding the Hungarians to wear Polovtsian "pagan" clothes.
            1. +1
              15 June 2019 21: 13
              Excuse me, when was this bull "published"?
            2. +3
              15 June 2019 21: 51
              Quote: Proxima
              There was even a papal
              bull forbidding the Hungarians to wear Polovtsian "pagan" clothes.

              Nostalgia is a terrible thing ... Poor Hungarians! Here, on the one hand, you have civilization ("Balls, beauties, footmen, cadets ..." full! And then there was some Pope, with his bull, stuck to something ...
              1. 0
                15 June 2019 22: 00
                Yes nifiga they are not poor, for the described period! Such a "thrush was given" to nearby neighbors!
                1. +2
                  15 June 2019 22: 19
                  The poor, savsem the poor. Papa Bula wrote - Hungarians tortured sovest! wassat
                  1. 0
                    15 June 2019 22: 30
                    It’s completely sad for you, Igor, with a North Caucasian accent. laughing
                    1. +1
                      15 June 2019 22: 39
                      You do not understand anything in accents! This is Uzbek. laughing It is simply difficult to convey the whole gamut of non-Russian sounds in Russian letters.
                      1. 0
                        15 June 2019 22: 50
                        I do not understand this?!?! That is, a person who worked with Gaster for 15 years who distinguishes Tajiks from Uzbeks by ear?
                      2. +1
                        15 June 2019 23: 41
                        In general, I was born and raised among them. And by ear I can distinguish about 7 dialects of the Uzbek Türkic alone. And, here's how to convey all this "beauty" in a letter - hz.
                      3. +1
                        16 June 2019 00: 39
                        Well, I agree, I take off my hat! hi
        2. VLR
          +3
          15 June 2019 21: 48
          I fully agree with the thesis about the fairness of Polovtsy. By the way, on another illustration - reconstruction of the image of the Polovtsian - a typical Caucasoid.
          1. +1
            15 June 2019 22: 02
            Meanwhile, the fair-hairedness of Caucasians is a recessive gene.
            1. +1
              4 August 2019 17: 40
              Recessive does not mean weak. Take off the dominant for a while, and the recessive sign will come out. Because the gene is deep and stable.
    2. +3
      15 June 2019 14: 03
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      Very informative article, thanks!

      I agree and support.
      Quote: VlR
      the "best men" of them themselves were not averse to becoming landowners

      The issue of land tenure in Russia is not simple, about the time of Yaroslav and before him, so generally vague and mysterious. As far as I understand, patrimonial land tenure began to take shape somewhat later, so to speak confidently about "landowners" in relation to the first half of the XNUMXth century, in my opinion, is too bold. Although the very essence of the hypothesis expressed by the author, about why Yaroslav is not a hero of epics, does not cause me significant objections.
      1. +1
        15 June 2019 21: 27
        I will support Mikhail regarding land ownership: there are no data in the sources on this subject. The same applies to the fate of the squad. Those little information from sources indicate that the squad was most likely killed along with the prince. Sveneld, who remained to live after Svyatoslav, is an example of poor service in the squad. The prince and the squad are one. As Mstislav said after the battle with his brother Yaroslav: here lies the north (militia of the northerners) and the Varangians, and my squad is whole. The transition from prince to prince of warriors is known, but this cannot serve as a basis for such conclusions.
  2. -1
    15 June 2019 06: 46
    The author's complaints about incomplete coverage were legitimate. But it is always worth remembering HOW in RUSSIA, after the accession of the Romanovs, any written sources were destroyed. During the reign of Brother Peter, the state archive in Moscow was destroyed. According to evidence, the archive was burned for almost a month. How many documents were burned?
    During the reign of Peter, the search for any manuscript or book among the RUSSIAN people was tightened, right up to the murder of anyone who found at least something written. Even some noble families that tried to preserve books and manuscripts fell into disgrace.
    The main censors and evaluators of the gathering were Christian monks. The church vigilantly oversaw the people along the way, seeking manuscripts and books.
    Free interpretations on the topic of * Varangians * in the past are not surprising, to justify the accession of the Romanovs and their * calibration * with imported princess princesses.
    Today, for historians, there is room for thought in flight and in any dispute. It got to the point that the Finno-Ugrians are already included in the indigenous pre-Slavic population of RUSI.
    1. +8
      15 June 2019 10: 19
      Dear Vasily, well, didn’t you end up with “who cares, but lousy to the bathhouse” !!!
      I am not a supporter or opponent of the Romanov dynasty. I don’t let the snot and drool over Nikolai II at least, but I have a “song” about how our history was rewritten, “across my throat” !!!
      Who is Peter the Great? Ghoul or reformer? Antichrist or saint? If we have already lived to the "holy nineties" ???
      I have always been killed, the extreme "pan-Slavs" .....
      Perhaps everything is easier ......, Peter the Great, was a man of his era and, as it is not surprising, combined negative and positive qualities! He had successes, there were mistakes, but to believe that he personally wiped the discharge books - thank you !!!!
    2. -7
      15 June 2019 11: 05
      Please note. How much anger and insult is caused simply by the mention of what was done to OUR history and OUR culture heritage.
      There the churchmen dragged the law * on insulting the FEELINGS *. Moreover, it is only they who have the right, but I am no longer there. Let us recall HOW the church took root in power and please, believers are excited. And if we ask questions? And if we start looking for answers? Why is it not mentioned in RUSSIA that it was the RUSSIANS who rebuilt both RUSSIA and the RUSSIAN EMPIRE and the SOVIET UNION. Moreover, in RUSSIA ALWAYS lived people of other nationalities and other beliefs. OUR ancestors have long lived near foreigners and did not hesitate to relate to them.
      In today's RUSSIA there is the North Caucasus where RUSSIANs and those born in mixed families were killed only because they were non-Chechen-Ingush-Dagestanis, and in fact they killed both children and women. Today, smart people from these nationalities are trying to break away from their relatives and settle in RUSSIA, and they are not robbed, they are not forced to be slaves. (We don’t remember about the national gangster communities).
      And so the questions are asked about the culture and national traditions of the RUSSIAN people.
      1. +6
        15 June 2019 13: 06
        . And so the questions are asked about the culture and national traditions of the RUSSIAN people.

        Dear Vasily, can you tell me where you can find a purebred Russian? Although the question is extremely wrong! For the Russian prince Rurik, the delegations of four peoples wound already !!! So point a finger at a purebred Slav? Although there is a zarada! In all sources that have come down to us, Slavs are mentioned, not Slavs ........ so sir, sailors ...))))
        Now a few facts. The berth of the eastern Slavs is more or less studied. Take and compare it with the territory of modern Russia! Have you compared? Now imagine a “vacuum cleaner” which, for 11 centuries, has pulled 180 nationalities into the borders of our Fatherland. And you think that in Russia there is and maybe purely Russian culture, true pagan faith or unspoiled traditions! Our ancestors were the same meat grinder that went from west to east, absorbing peoples, customs and culture. So today we have truly Russian cucumbers, dumplings, nesting dolls and much more that yesterday was alien or unknown to us! Where did the Zyryans, Ostyaks, Vaguls, Chud, Pelymets go? Yes, nowhere, they have remained and live among us, they speak Russian, consider themselves Russian, think Russian! But they not only joined the nation, but also enriched us with their cultures, languages, customs!
        Question, Vasily - what is it: yelan, pikanik, zakuta, embryo, cap, horses?
        Be of good cheer!
        1. +5
          15 June 2019 16: 35
          Dear Vasily, can you tell me where you can find a purebred Russian?
          I'll tell you, Vlad! In Moscow, and the name of this man is Andrey Vasiliev, better known as "Operator" laughing
          1. +4
            15 June 2019 23: 47
            I confirm. True Aryan R1A. The character is Nordic, persistent.
            Ruthless to the enemies of the R1A Reich. It threatens them immediately with 50 Mt in TNT equivalent.
            Kopelyan's voice off-screen: "The operator sat down and thought ... he knew that he was not
            R1A, and R1B ( belay ), but does the VO forum guess about this? "
        2. 0
          15 June 2019 20: 48
          Greetings to all friends of associates! hi
          For the Russian prince Rurik,

          On this occasion, I have a question: But Rurik, is he really Russian? request
          1. +2
            15 June 2019 21: 14
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Greetings to all friends of associates! hi
            For the Russian prince Rurik,

            On this occasion, I have a question: But Rurik, is he really Russian? request

            Good evening!
            To be honest, the devil knows - "who was Rurik?" and was there at all!
            Even Yudashev in the middle of the century before last called "Slavs" - the people of the invisible! Archaeological finds before the 10th century were so poor and ambiguous that they still cannot localize the zone of origin of the Eastern Slavs!
            In fact, there is a set of different hypotheses and nothing more ...
            But the first historical source, The Tale of Bygone Years, ended in catches "from where the Russian land came and went." That is, the existence in the 10th century - not of an abstract, but of real Russian land, is an indisputable fact. Around the same time, people grew up, of external and internal Russia - Byzantine and Arab sources began to speak.
            However, like the first Russian prince Helgi (Olga) is also mentioned in a number of Byzantine, Khazar sources and Scandinavian legends! Alas, Rurik (Rorik) did not get this! So that the question remains open .......
            1. 0
              15 June 2019 22: 04
              Hello Vladislav hi Helga, by the way, is also an original Russian name. wink
          2. +3
            15 June 2019 23: 02
            What the difference is who he was! I have repeatedly written that Russian is not a nationality, it is a state of mind.
            1. +2
              15 June 2019 23: 09
              Ah ... well, this is familiar to me ... Especially after this drinks the state of mind is always rushing out. fellow
              1. +2
                15 June 2019 23: 22
                No no no! It escalates in the morning of the monday! laughing
                1. +2
                  15 June 2019 23: 36
                  This is if only the "resuscitation center" is nearby, and so ... until you get there ... I have problems with this "spirit" in the village, especially in the mornings, and especially on Monday. wassat
                  1. +2
                    15 June 2019 23: 43
                    And in the village this is easier. The main thing is to prove that you are the worst here. "All - stars, others - on tinsel!"
                    1. +2
                      15 June 2019 23: 47
                      "Eh, you don't know the peculiarities of the Russian hinterland!" (S.) "Features of the national hunting".
                      1. +2
                        15 June 2019 23: 59
                        Oh, damn it, even as I know! I have this hinterland a hundred meters from the apartment begins. Well, I’ve said more than once, we are here in St. Petersburg, all the patients are sick and tired.
                      2. +2
                        16 June 2019 00: 08
                        In! Finally, a man with self-criticism was found, otherwise all of us Muscovites are pushing us in every way for any reason. good
                      3. +3
                        16 June 2019 00: 31
                        Otto !!! Sometimes, you know, you wake up at 5 in the morning, somewhere on Vaska, you realize that you are in your favorite city, and did not fly yesterday with the Corinthians to Kamchatka to meet the dawn, and you will dig to the Sphinxes, to communicate with the Neva, for at this hour the best not to find an interlocutor in St. Petersburg.
                      4. +2
                        16 June 2019 00: 37
                        Thank God, I know that Vaska is Vasilyevsky Island, and if someone has not been to St. Petersburg, they may misunderstand you. wink
                      5. +1
                        16 June 2019 00: 52
                        But from now on, I’m on the drum who will perceive what and how! I live in this city, I love him, I speak his language. With everyone who wants to understand and accept this, I am ready to share my knowledge and my love. The rest can go in peace!
                      6. +1
                        16 June 2019 00: 56
                        You are lucky with your city, I already wrote about this, but my Moscow is no more. request
                      7. 0
                        16 June 2019 01: 08
                        The one Peter I fell in love with 30 years ago is also gone. However, I do not cry for spilled milk, I love my city in dynamics.
                      8. +1
                        16 June 2019 01: 09
                        I also pay her - I spit. In addition, such a number of limits in your city probably never happened.
                      9. +1
                        16 June 2019 01: 19
                        Come on! I myself am "limit", and Peter "lost weight" for the Blockade by two-thirds, the most that neither is the city of limiters. Always laughing loudly over the "indigenous", who do not dig, always at most in the third generation!
                      10. +1
                        16 June 2019 01: 30
                        Well, I was also not born in Moscow, but since the age of one, I have been living there. Come on Anton, you perfectly understand what kind of layer of people I mean by the definition of "limit".
                      11. +1
                        16 June 2019 01: 42
                        Sorry, Constantine! Probably touched on the quick.
                        In St. Petersburg, indeed, the question of "come in large numbers" is very pale.
                      12. 0
                        16 June 2019 23: 50
                        Anton, there’s nothing to apologize for. hi Now, in addition to what was, Moscow is still pretty much and "blackened". Guys, coming to visit me, do not call her otherwise than "Churkin Grad". request
                      13. +3
                        16 June 2019 12: 54
                        My paternal great-grandfather (they were not Jews) bought an apartment on Liteiny about 1910. Then she became a communal apartment. In the 90s, I met there with my neighbors in a communal apartment, who still remembered my grandfather, who died in the blockade.
                      14. +1
                        16 June 2019 13: 00
                        Alexey, I remember that you have Petersburg roots. Do you want to know what is happening with this apartment now?
                      15. +3
                        16 June 2019 13: 09
                        I know what's wrong with her. Very nice people of noble roots live there. The old generation has died, these are their children and grandchildren. Photos of my ancestors (from the late 19th century to the 40s) were given to me by the old people. And we were glad that the "archive" was not lost. The rest doesn't really interest me.
                        But thanks anyway drinks
                      16. +1
                        16 June 2019 13: 13
                        I envy you in a good way! I couldn’t learn anything about the youth of my grandfather (closed archives).
                      17. +2
                        16 June 2019 23: 55
                        Hi Aleksey! hi My mother, too, is from St. Petersburg, graduated from the 1st honey and defended her candidate's thesis just before the war. In the war, captain honey. service. In 1942 she was evacuated from Leningrad along the "Road of Life" along with the hospital. After the war she settled in Moscow. Everyone who remained in the city died in the blockade and no connections remained.
                      18. +1
                        16 June 2019 04: 49
                        Good morning, Konstantin and Anton, no offense, but smile like a Cheshire cat when residents of the capitals (both) talk about the outback!
                        The province is different, seriously - different!
                        From real - “in the Urals there are three holes: Shawls, Gary, Tabory (crooked local humor). Before the “napimer” I know one grandfather who, living in a “hole”, has three apartments in the regional center and two in Yekaterinburg. He rents them out and has an income comparable to mine!
                        Conclusion, Russia is huge and looking for “cliches” and “patterns” in it is both simple and complex!
                      19. 0
                        16 June 2019 08: 33
                        Sorry for the snobbery of the capital! hi
                      20. +1
                        16 June 2019 10: 52
                        Anton, someone who, and you with Konstantin, are definitely not sick with metropolitan snobbery !!! Definitely less than I have been infected with “filo-uralia”! If you want to check, touch the theme of the “third capital” and “hold me three”! And if someone from Chelyabinsk sticks his head out, then ........ him in the sky! No. I’ll just keep silent about picnics ........ to drown them all! wassat
                        So, I am guilty of this much more than you !!!
                      21. +1
                        16 June 2019 11: 35
                        just do not get sick with capital snobbery !!!
                        It is contraindicated for me, because "we ourselves are not local, we came here for treatment, we stole all the documents crying " laughing
                      22. +3
                        16 June 2019 20: 29
                        "There are three capitals in Russia: Moscow, St. Petersburg, Lukhovitsy". Not this way?
                      23. +2
                        17 June 2019 00: 04
                        About ten years ago we went with my Ryazan friend to Luhovtsy to visit his relatives. The hosts were hospitable and immediately sat at the table. Further is hardly remembered, if at all. request
                      24. +1
                        17 June 2019 00: 00
                        Hello to Kotu, a beautiful Pannochka! hi What kind of outback are we talking about? I myself live in the Ryazan province, in a village in which there has never been a church either. And the people here are great, I rest with my soul. And about the throne: my city died and ... long live the Ryazan village! drinks
                      25. +2
                        17 June 2019 03: 02
                        Glad to read you Konstantin! Ryazan village is a classic of the Russian genre !!!
                        So I’m sincerely glad for you. Today I have a road to the airport and an assault on the capital ... my wife and I killed our daughter on this feat. She has girlfriends, we have a cultural program - alas, my tanks and guns come first in the end!
                        Your brother is in the tail!
                      26. +2
                        17 June 2019 03: 45
                        "The Cat wanders the Patriarch's Ponds"? (c).
                      27. +2
                        17 June 2019 05: 00
                        Already not, if about me. Alas. But here we have our own pond right under the windows, though without a name. good
                      28. +2
                        17 June 2019 05: 04
                        No. This is the Ural Cat in Moscow gathered.

                        "Well, I have this yellow in my plate" (c).

                        A pond, but if with frogs - wonderful.
                      29. +2
                        17 June 2019 05: 19
                        As for the "yellow": McDonald's is better off. And in our pond there are also crucians, I really don't speak for ratans.
                      30. +2
                        17 June 2019 05: 23
                        Pineapples in champagne - not always served. Places to know, probably, is necessary.
                        As for Roma, the closest association is Ussuri. But not an expert.

                        So. We change the subject. The working day begins. Great things await.
                      31. +1
                        18 June 2019 07: 00
                        Yeah my friend Sergey! Yesterday, like a dog, I wound my wife 20 kilometers along the Arbat, the Kremlin, Red Square and its environs !!! And my precious one didn’t let me “lick” a single gun, not a single museum, not even a single temple !!! But all the flower beds and lawns were ours! I never thought that the Alexander Garden was gorgeous with its roses. Just corny did not consider this place from this angle. I’m talking about eternal flame, city heroes, and my soulmate - what a wonderful landscape solution, what wonderful flowers, etc. And there were five more people like her. I’ve got a hamayun gun across the road, and I can see that flower bed. And what am I going to the senior guard to negotiate for my beloved “see the flowerbed”! And ten years ago, French guns only allowed me to take pictures from the floor of the road, and it was without problems. “Let's arrange it,” and it says so in my eyes that this request is destined to go into the anecdotes! But Zaryadye we did not like. His wife immediately christened him fake and abuse of nature! I woke up today without hind legs !!! According to the plan, the Pharmaceutical Garden is 6,5 hectares! So Sergey, the advice to the Patriarch Ponds is kind, if you have any ideas!
                        Good day!
                      32. 0
                        18 June 2019 07: 22
                        I completely agree with the assessment of Zaryadye.

                        Alexander Garden on the site of the old Pharmaceutical Garden.

                        Unfortunately, I won't be at the Aptekarsky until Sunday.
                        Go to the Victorian greenhouse - there are flowers and fruits on cocoa.
                        Crackers and Chubushniki have not yet faded.

                        But when there are too many people, the effect is different.

                        Take your wife to the botanical garden of Moscow State University opposite the biofac.
                        Entrance only with excursions. Collection from the street Khokhlova.
                        See the schedule. The rock garden is worth it. And the roses bloomed too soon.
                      33. 0
                        18 June 2019 07: 29
                        Thank you so much for your good advice!
                        Regards, Vlad!
                      34. 0
                        18 June 2019 07: 34
                        When do you leave? But I until Friday in the suburbs without raising my head from work.
                        And on Sunday night - a business trip.

                        And so the world is small. This mountain does not converge with the mountain.
                      35. 0
                        18 June 2019 17: 51
                        We are leaving on Saturday. They call me from vacation, 24 to work! Okay, they gave me at least a week to rest. Seriously, be in Yekaterinburg, beacon necessarily. I am taking you to the museum of military glory, to the she-wolf, stone tents or the damn hillfort, and if there is a whole free day, then to Deer Streams!
                        But friends it all concerns! Do not be shy!!!
                        Regards, Vlad!
                      36. 0
                        18 June 2019 21: 41
                        Let's arrange travel palaces: like the tsars on the road from Moscow to the Trinity Lavra.

                        Okay, not this season. Somehow the development of the Urals is postponed. Yes, and the Moscow Region owner is so-so.

                        But in the current scenario, work does not mix with anything. But I remembered all the names.
                      37. +3
                        18 June 2019 09: 46
                        Then also Tsaritsyno, if the landscapes and flowers, all my friends say, are very beautiful
                        I don't like it at Zaryadye either, much is in vain. Although, once in the 50s, the Garden on Vorobyovs looked like a garden of stones, judging by the photographs (but, I think, even then, real). M. b. and Zaryadye will recover if given. And the key is "if".
                      38. 0
                        18 June 2019 17: 54
                        Thanks for the advice. Tsaritsyno according to plan on Thursday! Tomorrow, the Garden at Moscow State University, the Sparrow Hills, if we stand then Moscow City!
                      39. +2
                        18 June 2019 18: 22
                        You are holding!
                        Vorobyovy Gory is not so big, the trees are illuminated at night (but strange), the view from the observation deck is good, the ecological trail and ponds (but will seem abandoned). The main building of Moscow State University is impressive, that's for sure, in general, the territory of Moscow State University is like a small town (but there are no guns! And the beds are so-so!), There is a monument to Lomonosov.
                        But you will definitely like the Garden, that's for sure too! One rock garden is worth it!
                      40. +2
                        17 June 2019 04: 58
                        I am also glad to communicate Vladislav! I wish you a happy journey and a successful assault smile . There will be time, drop into the museum of the Armed Forces, I have not been there for a thousand years.
                        Just took the mouse from our younger brother, I managed to catch and twist her neck somewhere. And a hefty creature. Mouse, I mean. hi
                      41. +1
                        18 June 2019 07: 08
                        Thanks for your kind words!
                        A mouse, a mouse is sacred !!! My mother protects frogs living in a pond from her cat!
                        Regarding the Museum of the Armed Forces, I definitely shaved !!! My wife shouldn’t let me into the guns under any sauce. Today, according to the plan, the Pharmaceutical Garden!
                        Regards, Vlad!
                      42. 0
                        18 June 2019 20: 33
                        Do not let the man to the guns, it's the same as not to let the woman on the phone !!! stop
                      43. 0
                        19 June 2019 07: 17
                        My wife knows me as flaky! So that any weapon bypass the "fifth road"! Once fluttered in the house of Lermontov (Taman). There was a 24 pound coronade. And it’s not easy, and in 1836 the Kamensky plant was produced. For two hours I persuaded the director of the museum to remove the glass in order to photograph it .... I broke it. Then mine took me one more hour from her !!! I said goodbye to her as a native. So my soulmate doesn’t make such mistakes anymore !!!
                        Good day!
                      44. +2
                        17 June 2019 03: 44
                        No. I have never been a Muscovite.

                        But you still have to feel through the supernumerary.

                        "Walk on foot, young step
                        All free semicholmia "(c).

                        И
                        "Because between empty rumors
                        There is Arbat, and there is Donskoy Monostyr "(c).

                        Yes, and there are people.
                      45. +2
                        17 June 2019 05: 02
                        I have more to do with the Novodevichy Convent. In the second half of the eighties, our department was transferred there, to the Ambrose Chambers. Well, the time was! drinks
                      46. +2
                        17 June 2019 05: 19
                        Somehow I walked from Grokholsky at Prospect Mira to the Vorobyovs.

                        With Novodevichy, in addition to the cemetery, there are almost no associations.
                        Sretensky closer. But this is again at a certain time.

                        There is darkness inside Sadovy Lane. You go and open your mouth.
                      47. +2
                        17 June 2019 05: 30
                        On the old Novodevichy Brusilov lies Denis Davydov. And on each new creature a couple.
                      48. +2
                        17 June 2019 06: 56
                        Yes, there are many who are there. The eldest daughter, when she was a student, studied medical Moscow with him.
    3. +2
      15 June 2019 14: 33
      Quote: Vasily50
      But it is always necessary to remember HOW in RUSI, after the accession of the Romanovs, any written sources were destroyed.

      This song is old, obo ... well, let's say so - it's time to forget. (children's teaser, slightly censored to the glory of the site moderators) laughing
      We have already heard the mantra about the insidious and powerful Romanovs, who had nothing to do except to search for ancient manuscripts and destroy them. I propose to consider another hypothesis - the fundamental revision of national history with the search and destruction of historical documents was not the work of the Romanovs, but the Terrible Tsar Ivan Vasilyevich himself. According to his instructions, all the archives of the Moscow Kremlin were perused and all the documents relating to the relations between the Russian princes and the Horde — treaties, labels, decrees, receipts for receiving tributes, etc. — were carefully selected and removed from them. This, by the way, was more realistic than to search through the whole country for ancient documents, replacing them with fakes made on the material of the corresponding age and written in the language corresponding to the time about which these documents are narrated.
      Quote: Vasily50
      It got to the point that Finno-Ugrians are already included in the indigenous pre-Slavic population of Russia.

      That is because the horror ah? I propose to immediately call all these pseudo-archaeologists on the carpet to the Kremlin, invite Vasily 50 there and let him tell them how wrong they are. And those who do not swear on the exit from this collection of Perun, Yaril and Mokosh, that archaeological sources irrefutably testify to the complete absence of Finno-Finns and Balts in the Volga-Oka interfluvial area and further north and east - mercilessly shot and exiled to Solovki penguins to hunt, because not fig.
      You are not tired of flogging monotonous unproven nonsense, my dear? Maybe it's time to grow up?
      1. +4
        15 June 2019 15: 26
        It will be a little expensive to import penguins to Solovki, ostriches are cheaper. laughing
        1. +3
          15 June 2019 15: 39
          Greetings, Anton.
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          A little expensive penguins will come to Solovki

          What for? An extra reason to shoot a second time for failure to comply with the plan for harvesting penguins.
          1. 0
            15 June 2019 15: 46
            hi
            What for then to transport to Solovki? Let them hunt right in the Kremlin.
            1. 0
              15 June 2019 16: 38
              I'm afraid the first victim of such a hunt will be Vasily50. This is not a punishment, but a reward.
            2. +1
              15 June 2019 17: 27
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              What for then to transport to Solovki? Let them hunt right in the Kremlin.

              To organize a "sharaga" right in the Kremlin? Yes, you, my friend, are some absolutely ghoul totalitarian ghoul !!! Even Bloody Stalin did not think of such a thing !!! )))
              1. 0
                15 June 2019 17: 33
                This is with a hangover. wassat And since the idea is sound, few professional historians would refuse to dig into the armory of the Armory in exchange for a temporary restriction of freedom.
                1. +1
                  15 June 2019 17: 51
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  few professional historians would refuse to dig into the armory of the Armory in exchange for a temporary restriction of freedom.

                  Moreover, in the presence of a herd of penguins / ostriches, as "experimental equipment"! drinks
                2. +2
                  15 June 2019 20: 54
                  Anton, here you are absolutely and absolutely right, I had a chance to visit there once, one collection of Peter the Great pistols is worth it! drinks
                  1. +1
                    15 June 2019 21: 07
                    Hello, Konstantin!
                    But I've never been request All my visits to Moscow were mainly of a tender age, and then it was just problematic to get to the Kremlin.
                    By the way, Shpakovsky said that the ghouls from Oruzheyka demand 2000 rubles for a professional photograph of the exhibit
                    1. +3
                      15 June 2019 22: 01
                      Good evening, Anton!
                      Don't be discouraged, I meant the storerooms of the armory and the weapons department, but there were no excursions there. I was dragged there by our employee Yurka Shokorev, he helped the local head Lena Tikhomirova write an article. While they sat and thought, I walked around the vault and found something interesting for myself. Lenka told me in advance, you will find something you need, tell me, I will open the closet. I said the number of the cabinet, she laughed and said: "I thought so." laughing There, in Stalin's collection, in the pyramid stood "Thompson", presented by Truman to Stalin. But I've already talked about this here.
                      1. +1
                        15 June 2019 22: 16
                        Cool! There, in Stalin's collection, in the pyramid stood "Thompson", presented by Truman to Stalin. This is not even seen in the museum’s exposition. there are more and more gifts to Zhukov.
                        Unfortunately, my only "passage" to the Hermitage storerooms was closed ten years ago ...
                        In small-town cases, you have to "charm" the guide.
        2. +2
          15 June 2019 17: 19
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          It will be a little expensive to import penguins to Solovki, ostriches are cheaper.

          Ostriches run too fast. Can you imagine the average CIN (Vyacheslav Olegovich, for example) trying to catch an ostrich? Well this is some kind of sadism !!! But doctors and academicians?
          1. +1
            15 June 2019 17: 27
            Shpakovsky - I can perfectly imagine! He will bring them down from SHA-12! laughing
            1. +2
              15 June 2019 20: 55
              Nevermind, he invented a new machine! Khan to all ostriches within the globe! good
              1. +2
                15 June 2019 21: 18
                No, SHA-12 is no longer news. The novelties of the Shpakovsky Arms Concern were discussed yesterday and today.
  3. +5
    15 June 2019 06: 53
    How nice. What a card! It's time to take the glomeruli - and go to the destination.
    1. +4
      15 June 2019 10: 47
      "Ball" is a navigation application for the domestic mobile OS "Aurora".
      1. +2
        16 June 2019 06: 41
        Operation miracles guaranteed?
        1. +1
          16 June 2019 08: 38
          Most indispensable! What is "softina" without "miracles"?
          1. 0
            16 June 2019 08: 47
            "Not that miracle of miracles,
            That man fell from heaven.
            And then a miracle of miracles
            How a man got there "(folk).
  4. +4
    15 June 2019 07: 30
    Cases of bygone days
    Traditions of antiquity deep ....
    1. +2
      15 June 2019 09: 33
      "History became a legend. The legend - a farce. And then they composed jokes ..." (c) "Brotherhood and the ring".
    2. +4
      15 June 2019 10: 39
      Cases of bygone days
      Traditions of antiquity deep ....
      Yes, but still hoots. You need to know your story and epic. Thanks to the author, I liked it very much.
  5. +2
    15 June 2019 07: 41
    interestingly, the Boyans were familiar with the mythology of Dr. Greece: centaurs / colonies, Amazons, the afterlife, apples, etc. ? With the advent of Byzantine culture, they could very well have heard. Or is it all independent stories?
    1. +5
      15 June 2019 08: 41
      I like the definition of the Strugatsky: “Myth is reality. Seen by a fool and told by a poet. ”

      And there are enough of those and others in all parts of the world.
    2. -5
      15 June 2019 11: 13
      This dr. Greeks were familiar with Slavic literature.
      Pelasgs, the founders of the culture of other Greece came to the Balkans from about the places where the city of VORONEZH stands today. Pelasgians brought with them both beliefs and writing, and much more of what Hellas actually began with.
      1. +2
        15 June 2019 14: 46
        Quote: Vasily50
        This dr. Greeks were familiar with Slavic literature.

        Of course, it is no coincidence that the letters of the Greek alphabet are so similar to the Russian ones. Look: "alpha" - the cast "a", "beta" - exactly "bh", "gamma", "delta" - all are entirely Old Russian letters! Coincidence? I do not think. laughing wassat
        Quote: Vasily50
        came to the Balkans from about the places where today is the city Voronezh

        It is clear that it was in Voronezh that they arose - they grew out of the ground or fell from the sky, that is not the point. And the most stupid, of course, went to Greece, but they were so superior to everyone there that they taught them to write, forced them to learn their epics (those stupid, of course, then distorted everything) and established a state for them. And these lights of civilization spoke exclusively in Russian, of course.
      2. 0
        15 June 2019 16: 02
        Sorry for those who can not read. About where the Pelasgians came from, there are records in other Greek myths. Of course, not in those adapted at the publishing house of Children's Literature. And so the records are quite readable and understandable, even to the extent that the Pelasgians found a convenient way to the Balkans
        1. +4
          15 June 2019 16: 30
          I was already curious: what about the Etruscans?
        2. +1
          15 June 2019 16: 30
          The royal decree on the foundation of Voronezh has not yet been found [25]. The archive contains the order of the boyar Nikita Romanovich Yuryev of March 1, 1586 on the reorganization of the guard service on the southern outskirts of the Moscow state [26], which reads: “By sovereign Tsar and Grand Duke Fyodor Ivanovich of all Russia, by decree and by the sentence of the boyars of Prince Fyodor Ivanovich Mstislavsky comrades on Sosna, without reaching Oskol two bottoms, ordered the city of Livny, and Don on Voronezh, not reaching Bogatov’s backwash two bottoms, ordered to put Voronezh ... ”However, the entry in the Rank Order of 1585“ on unsubscribing Ryazansk x bortnyh maintained and fish Lobel new Voronezh city "[27] proves that Voronezh has already existed in 1585. Nevertheless, since the fortress was built in 1586, it is officially the year 1586 that is considered the foundation year of Voronezh [28].

          I apologize for the long quote from Wiki, but this fact proves that the Pelasts and Russians lived in the territory of Voronezh in different eras!
          Regards, Vlad!
          1. +4
            15 June 2019 16: 54
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            I apologize for the long quote from Wiki, but this fact proves that the Pelasts and Russians lived in the territory of Voronezh in different eras!
            Regards, Vlad!

            Here it is said to Russians in white:
            The royal decree on the foundation of Voronezh has not yet been found [25].
            !!!
            So uchOnye hide! And boyar Nikita Romanovich Yuriev wrote his fake, dated March 1, 1586, under the dictation of the Masters of the West. What is indicated by the kosher date "March 1, 1586" from R.H. A truly RUSSIAN person would definitely set the date from the Creation of the World in the Star Temple, and not from the birthday of some Jewish boy !!!
            1. +1
              16 June 2019 04: 54
              Are you sure "shaw was a boy"?
              Militant feminists need to throw off the idea - this is their 2019 years driving by the nose!
              1. +2
                16 June 2019 21: 22
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                Are you sure "shaw was a boy"?
                Militant feminists need to throw off the idea - this is their 2019 years driving by the nose!

                In the light of the tendencies of modern militant tolerastism, I, nevertheless, already am not sure that it was a girl, much less a white one! Most of all, it was a Negro-trasvestite (former lesbian) tortured by a totalitarian RYZHYM, for his love of Freedom and Democracy. Here!
  6. -4
    15 June 2019 07: 56
    Quote: Ryzhov V.A.
    For storytellers, time is almost always limited to pointing to the reign of Vladimir Krasno Sunny. In this ruler, who became the embodiment of popular beliefs about the ideal prince - the defender of his native land, they most often see Vladimir Svyatoslavich, the baptist of Russia (died 1015).

    The perfect prince? Is this the one who forcibly forced to renounce the faith of his fathers and imposed the new faith? And what kind of protector is he after that?

    Quote: Ryzhov V.A.
    The storytellers, by the way, believed that the patronymic of their prince Vladimir was Vseslavich. A.N. Veselovsky, who studied the South German poem "Ortnit" written in the first half of the XNUMXth century, came to the conclusion that the name of the father of the king of Russia Valdimar is "a modified Germanic equivalent of the Slavic name Vseslav"

    So it turns out Vladimir was not foolish? Now it’s clear where such cruelty to the population in Russia comes from. Of the 12 millions of people after baptism, only three remained ... (https://gifakt.ru/archives/index/rus-pravoslavnaya-do-prinyatiya-xristianstva-i-posle-2/) If you have a different number - provide. If not, have to believe it.

    ps

    EVIDENCE OF THE GENOCIDE OF RUSSIAN PEOPLE, in connection with the consequences of the baptism of Russia:

    1. Russia was baptized by fire and sword.
    2. An alien religion - Christianity - is forcibly imposed on the Russian people.
    3. Christians destroyed the Slavic temples, treasures, luminaries.
    4. Destruction of the estate of Russian clergy, the Magi.
    5. Destruction of the ancient books of Vedic literature.
    6. The ban on the study of runes and other types of Russian writing.
    7. Replacing the runes with the simplest script of Cyril and Methodius.
    8. Christianity rejects and hides the past of Russia before its baptism.
    9. Introduction to serfdom in Russia slavery of the Russian people.
    10. The introduction of Old Testament usury loan interest.
    11. Silence by Christians of the harm of technocratic civilization.
    12. Soldering Russian People, Communion from childhood.
    13. Moral degeneration due to church education.
    14. The destruction of the Vedic science of giving birth and raising children.
    15. The baptism of Russian children only by Jewish or Greek names.
    1. +4
      15 June 2019 15: 35
      Quote: Boris55
      EVIDENCE OF THE GENOCIDE OF RUSSIAN PEOPLE, in connection with the consequences of the baptism of Russia:

      Oh, oh, this is serious, as many as fifteen pieces. Disassemble all - time is a pity and not in the horse feed. Suffice it to say that all fifteen points are a list of facts that have nothing to do with the real history, they are not sucked, I don’t know from what place and in what way.
      For those who are too lazy to follow the link of Boris, I will explain where she leads.
      Religious site "Hypotheses and Facts", article without title, signed as follows:
      Diy Vladimir, Elder
      Valley Community of the Old Russian Ingliisticheskaya
      Orthodox Old Believers Church

      Regarding these "Ynglings", the unloved wiki says the following:
      In 2009, all registered Ingling associations were closed due to their extremist activities (in particular, propaganda of the idea of ​​racial superiority of “Slav-Aryans” and use of the symbol of the kolovrata swastika). Hinevich was given a conditional sentence, two years later his conviction was dropped.

      If you are interested, you can search for the sources of this information - there are links to them on the wiki. I'm lazy.
      In general, I did not expect anything else from such a figure as Boris55.
      Inspired. Impromptu, do not judge strictly.
      Rodnovers and other dolboslavy
      Raise the earrings early
      Pull the hand to the sun with the whole crowd
      And natslozungi yell, degenerates.
      It is yours, great-grandfathers and grandfathers
      Fought the Nazi mold
      Well you now, obgadiv their victory,
      Enrolled in the Russian fascists.
      1. +2
        15 June 2019 16: 08
        To be honest, I didn’t follow Boris’s link, for having read the points of accusation, I was so imbued with the depth of the viciousness of our society that I almost went to the nearest Vedic temple to sacrifice myself.
        1. +4
          15 June 2019 16: 56
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          nearest Vedic temple

          I know this near the village of Suoranda in the Vsevolozhsk District. smile There really people gather periodically (the last time was, in my opinion, in April, "Yarozhivitsa" was called), glorify the Slavic gods, carry out some rituals, burn fires, drink mead. But there people gather without nationalistic scum, just reenactors. As far as I understand, there even the students of the St. Petersburg History Faculty advise them and participate in the "Sabbath". I have nothing against such people - this is our story, even if their reconstructions are very hypothetical, but interesting and harmless.
          1. +2
            15 June 2019 17: 04
            Very interesting! The labyrinth is probably a remake?
            1. +2
              15 June 2019 17: 07
              Of course! Everything is new there and something is added every year. smile I think you can google and find out when they have the next event.
              1. +2
                15 June 2019 17: 12
                By the way, Mikado offered to go to Priyutino, on June 29-30 there is reconstruction under the WWII, his former colleague is fond of.
          2. 0
            23 June 2019 17: 45
            This is the Tengrian karamat (karamadzh), where the ancient Bulgars carried their "Men tayre". In the center of the sanctuary is Bo (a) y Terek - a pillar.
            "... The people considered the sun, moon and stars through the eyes of Tangra, therefore they prayed to the rising sun. In the era of reigns kelbirs were elected kings or other members of the reigning house.
            Gazi Baba describes the jien prayer that he himself saw. Karamat was located on an elevated place in a clearing, the “Wall” - the gossip was barely visible - and then only at the three gates of Karamat (at the east, called Tangra Kapa, ​​at the north - Cook Kapa and at the south - Yer Kapa) and on the west side, tightly closed from evil spirits.
            In the middle of Karamat, several trees grew, the most beautiful of which was called the sacred tree Bai Terek. South of Bai Terek, a platform was made on the ground for the kelbir - “eg-kepe” ...
            When the people led by Kelbir entered the Karamat, sacrificial animals (a white horse, a white bull and a white sheep) were brought to the western “wall” and tied to three pillars. Then the animals were transferred to the three pillars at the place near Tangra Kapa, ​​called aba or uba, stabbed and cut. Their skins were hung on three pillars. Instead of real animals, stuffed animals tied to pillars at the western “wall”. This was done to deceive the evil spirits, so that they, attracted by animals, still remained at the western “wall” and did not enter inside Karamat. Water was brought through Kuk Kapa to prepare the sacrificial food and three fires were lit, on which the meat of sacrificial animals was cooked. People looked at all this until Kelbir from the tree exclaimed: “Meng tyre! Looking at the sun, speak! “
      2. -2
        15 June 2019 18: 49
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        Oh oh it's serious

        Do you have other numbers? It seems that no, but blah blah I'm not interested.

        Quote: Trilobite Master
        Well you now, obgadiv their victory,
        Enrolled in the Russian fascists.

        Oh how! But essentially have something to say?

        Laurentian Chronicle. Ancient text see:

        PSRL, vol. 1, item 1, M., 1962; repetition ed. PSRL, L "1926; or in the book." Literature of Ancient Rus 1X-KhP ev ". M., 1978. Translated by B. Kresen.

        6488 (980). And Vladimir began to reign in Kiev alone, and set idols on a hill outside the courtyard courtyard: Perun wooden - the head of silver, and mustache, and Horse-Dazhbog, and Stribog, and Simargl, and Mokosh ... Vladimir put Dobrynya, his uncle, in Novgorod. And, having come to Novgorod, Dobrynya set an idol over the Volkhov River, and the Novgorodians offered him sacrifices as a god ...

        But Vladimir was defeated by lust for women, and these were his spouses: Rogneda, whom he put on Lybed ... from her had four sons: Iceslav, Mstislav, Yaroslav, Vsevolod, and two daughters; from a Greek woman had - Svyatopolk; from Czech Republic - Vysheslav; from the other, Svyatoslav and Mstislav; and from the Bulgarian - Boris and Gleb, and his concubines he had 300 - in Vyshgorod, 300 - in Belgorod and 200 on Berestov ... And he was insatiable in fornication, brought to himself and married wives and molested girls. He was the same woman-lover as Solomon, for they say that Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. He was wise, but in the end he perished. This one was an ignoramus, and in the end he gained salvation.

        In the year 6496 (988) Vladimir went with an army to Korsun, a Greek city ... And he sent to the tsars Vasily and Konstantin, and so he told them: “Look, your glorious city has taken; I heard that you have a virgin sister; if you don’t give her away for me, then I will create to your city (the capital) the same as I did to this city. ” And having heard this, they (Vasily and Konstantin) were saddened, and sent him a message, and so answered: “It was not appropriate for Christians to marry wives for infidels. If you are baptized, you will receive it, and you will receive the kingdom of heaven, and you will be faithful with us. ”

        ... According to God's providence, at that time Vladimir was ill with his eyes, and did not see anything, and mourned greatly, and did not know what to do. And the queen (Anna) sent to him and said: “If you want to get rid of this disease, then be baptized soon; otherwise you will not forget this affliction. ” Hearing, Vladimir said: “If this is truly fulfilled, then truly the Christian God will be great.” And he commanded himself to be baptized. The bishop of Korsun with the tsarina priests, having announced, baptized Vladimir. And when he laid his hand on him, he immediately received his sight. Vladimir, sensing his sudden healing, glorified God: "Now I have seen the true God."

        ... After that, Vladimir took the queen and the priests of Korsun with the relics of St. Clement ... he took both the church vessels and the icons for his blessing ... He took two copper idols and four copper horses, which now stand behind the church of St. Virgin Mary. Korsun gave the Greeks as a vein for the queen, and he came to Kiev. And when he came, he ordered the idols to overturn - to chop off some, and put others on fire. Perun ordered that the horse be tied to the tail and dragged him from the mountain along Borichev to the brook, and he ordered twelve men to beat him with batons. This was done not because the tree feels, but to scold the demon ... Yesterday I was honored by people, and today we scold.

        When Perun was dragged along the Brook to the Dnieper, the unfaithful people mourned him ... And, dragging him, they threw him into the Dnieper. And Vladimir said to his companions: “If he is pestering where, you push him away from the shore until the thresholds pass, then just leave him.” They did as he commanded. As soon as they left it behind the rapids, the wind brought it aground, which was later called Perunya Mel, and so it is called to this day. Then Vladimir sent throughout the city to say: “If no one turns up tomorrow on the river - whether it be rich, or poor, or a beggar, or a slave, I will be disgusted.”

        Mazurinsky chronicler. PSRL. T. 34, M., 1968. Translation by B. Creseny.

        6498 (992). Dobrynya, Uncle of Vladimir, went to Veliky Novgorod, and crushed all the idols, and ravaged the trestle, and baptized many people, and erected churches and priests in the cities and villages of the Novgorod border. But the idol of Perun was cut, and thrown to the ground, and, having tied up the ropes, drew him on the feces, beating with wands and trampling. And at this time a demon entered that soulless idol of Perun and cried out in it like a man: “Oh woe to me! Oh me! I got merciless hands. " And the people threw him into the Volkhov river and ordered that no one take him over. He, swimming through the great bridge, hit the bridge with his club and said: “Let the Novgorod people amuse themselves here, remembering me,” and here crazy people worked for many years, converged on certain holidays and arranged shows, and fought.

        Joachim Chronicle. Ancient text in the book. Tatishchev V.N. “Russian History”, 1. M., 1963. Translation by B. Creseny.

        6499 (991). In Novgorod, when people saw that Dobrynya was going to baptize them, they made a veche and swore that they would not let them into the city and not allow to refute the idols. And when he arrived, they, having swept the great bridge, came out with arms, and no matter what threats or kind words Dobrynya warned them, they didn’t want to hear, and brought out two large gunshots with many stones, and put them on the bridge, as if on their real enemies. Highest over the Slavic priests, Bogomil, who because of his eloquence was called the Nightingale, forbade people to submit.

        We stood on the trading side, walked along the markets and streets, and taught people as best we could. But dying in wickedness, the word godfather, which the apostle said, was madness and deceit. And so we stayed for two days and baptized several hundred people.

        Skinny, the Thousand Novgorod Novgorod Hijacked, rode everywhere and shouted: “It is better for us to die than to give our gods a reproach.” The people of this country, having become furious, destroyed the house of Dobrynya, robbed the estate, beat his wife and relatives. Tysyatsky Vladimirov Putyata, a clever and brave husband, having prepared a rook and elected a man from 500 from Rostov, crossed over at night to the other side of the city and entered the city, and no one wasware, since everyone who saw them thought that they saw their warriors. Having reached the courtyard, Stealing, he and other first husbands immediately sent him to Dobryna across the river. The people of that country, having heard about this, gathered before 5000, surrounded Putyata, and there was an evil section between them. Some went and swept the Church of the Transfiguration of the Lord and began to rob the homes of Christians. And at dawn Dobrynya arrived in time with the soldiers who were with him, and he ordered some houses to be set on fire by the shore, than people were very frightened, and they ran to extinguish the fire; and immediately ceased to chop, and the skinny first men, having come to Dobryna, began to ask for peace.

        Dobrynya, having gathered soldiers, forbade robbery, and immediately crushed idols, burned the wooden ones, and stone, having broken, threw him into the river; and there was wicked great sorrow. Husbands and wives, seeing this, with a great cry and tears asked for them, as if for real gods. Dobrynya, taunting them, said to them: “Why, mad people, you regret those who cannot defend themselves, what good you can expect from them.” And he sent everywhere, announcing that everyone would go to baptism ... And many came, and warriors who didn’t want to be baptized brought and baptized, men above the bridge, and women below the bridge ... And so, baptizing, Putyat went to Kiev. Therefore, people reproach the Novgorodians, they say, their Puti baptized with a sword, and Dobrynya with fire.

        Nikon Chronicle. PSRL, t. 10., M., 1965; sings. SPb., 1862. Translation by B. Creseny.

        6735 (1227) Magi, sorcerers, hermits, and many magicians, and reproaches, and false signs appeared in Novgorod, and did a lot of evil, and deceived many. And the gathered Novgorodians caught them and brought them to the archbishop's court. And the men of Prince Yaroslav stood up for them. The Novgorodians brought the Magi to the courtyard of Yaroslav’s husbands, and put up a great fire in the courtyard of Yaroslav, and tied the Magi together, and threw them into the fire, and then they all burned down ...
        1. +3
          15 June 2019 20: 09
          Cool. But only the chronicles I read and with the works of Tatishchev I am familiar and I have never met with information about the mass repressions and murders, so that millions of people would suffer ... request
          They cried and went home, and the next day they went to church, who were no longer alone before 988.
          So do not shake the air. Baptism was almost bloodless and his sacrifices were numbered in the hundreds, for the next three centuries, perhaps thousands, but not millions. Even you can understand this if you leave your stupid aplomb and read the sources as they are written.
          1. +1
            15 June 2019 20: 14
            And, by the way, the Joakimov Chronicle is not considered a historical source. Is that with a stretch, a monument to the beliteristic literature of the XVIII century. laughing
          2. 0
            15 June 2019 21: 33
            I think it is useless to prove that paganism is more tolerant than monotheism, that many were baptized "just in case" so as not to offend someone else's god, that Thor's hammers in burials accompany body crosses ...
            Without perspective. negative
    2. BAI
      +3
      15 June 2019 20: 56
      Russia was baptized by fire and sword.

      We must begin with the fact that we were baptized in the Dnieper - in the water.
  7. -2
    15 June 2019 08: 04
    How Ilya quarreled with Prince Vladimir (excerpt):
    "... And Ilya left the grid, slammed the doors - the doors flew out, slammed the gates - the gates crumbled ...
    He went out into the wide courtyard, took out a stiff bow and sharp arrows, and began to condemn the arrows:
    - You fly, arrows, to high roofs, knock down golden dummies from the towers!
    Here golden poppies sprinkled with a princely tower.
    Ilya shouted at the full heroic cry:
    - Get together, beggars, naked people, pick up golden dummies, bring them to the tavern, drink wine, eat full of Kalach!
    The beggars came running, picked up the poppies, began to feast with Ilya, walk ... "

    1. 0
      15 June 2019 10: 08
      "... Russian revolt, senseless and merciless" (A. Pushkin)
  8. +7
    15 June 2019 10: 43
    Yes, here you can really think about wood as you like!
    Favourite buisness wink
    and what do you want to write
    1. +1
      15 June 2019 12: 56
      You are wrong and the ancient RUSSIAN saying goes completely wrong.
      They said - "Myskoy cuts the tree." The toe is a squirrel, it cuts - it gallops.
      The Germans that under the Romanovs wrote and epics and determined the spelling correctly failed to translate not only this saying ...
      1. VLR
        +7
        15 June 2019 14: 50
        That's right, wee is a squirrel.
        There is an interesting version (on which I do not insist) that this proverb is borrowed from newcomer Scandinavians. According to this version, there is a kind of Ratatosk squirrel, which constantly jumps along the world tree Yggdrasil and serves as an intermediary between the Upper and Lower worlds. The fact is that Boyan, according to the author of The Lay of Igor's Campaign, is Svyatoslavov's Singer. And Svyatoslav, the father of the famous Oleg, is the heir of Scandinavian traditions in the family, he also had a Scandinavian name - Holti the Bold. Svyatoslav's circle was surrounded by many Varangians - both local, Russified, and those who came to "work". Boyan could communicate with them and borrow something for his "songs".
      2. -1
        15 June 2019 15: 53
        Ryzhov
        The Scandinavian epic and culture began to develop from the 10th century. Prior to this, the entire culture of scans and Danes was collected from the tales of those peoples by which they passed. Even the One god of scans is the ancestor of monotheism, the name of this god has meaning only in the Russian language. Aging of the history of Caucasians is akin to what is being done ON the outskirts today. In England, they even found the jaw of a * Piltown man * - a creature moving from a monkey to a man. In France-Spain, the sites of ancient people are found. In China, during the time of Mao, they also kept their history down and also found * the missing link *, called Pekinopitek.
        So the Scandinavians are not original or even pioneers in attributing ancient history to themselves. You just need to know that the Scandinavians were tributaries of Rus, until the Romanovs hired Sven bandits to gain access to the throne. In payment were given to the northern territories including Veliky Novgorod and the forgiveness of tribute.
        These are facts, not thoughts about Scandinavian speculation.
        1. +3
          15 June 2019 17: 01
          Quote: Vasily50
          Survival of the history of the Europeans is akin to what they are doing on the outskirts today.

          This is what you are preaching here is exactly the same thing that Vyatrovich is actively promoting. By the way, is he not a relative of you? Painfully goals and methods look like, replace only "ukrov" by "rusov" and one to one simply.
      3. +1
        15 June 2019 15: 58
        This proverb applied to those who DO NOT BE ABLE TO THINK LOGICALLY. To those who do not know how to think, whose thoughts jump from topic to topic.
      4. BAI
        +4
        15 June 2019 21: 02
        "Myskoy cuts the tree."

        And there is also "Thought spreads along the tree." - Book. To fall into unnecessary verbosity, go into unnecessary details, distract from the main idea. BTS, 283; Mokienko 1986, 73

        Although, the original, -
        In the “Word” it is said: “Boyan is spring, if someone wanted to put together a song, the cape spread on the tree, a gray wolf on the ground, a blue eagle under the clouds. "
        "Mys" in translation from the Old Slavonic "protein". Accordingly, the author says that Boyan, folding the song, covered the whole world with his mind's eye - he ran a squirrel through a tree, a gray wolf - along the ground, flew an eagle under the clouds.
  9. +10
    15 June 2019 11: 08
    Under the USSR, patriotic films were shot about the heroes of Ancient Russia, to take the same Ilya Muromets (in the lead role of B. Andreev), fairy tales shot by the legendary A. Rowe, all instilled the spirit of patriotism, the struggle between good and evil. Now in modern Russia, after each viewing, there is a double feeling ...
  10. +5
    15 June 2019 11: 33
    The correct Ilya Muromets from the Soviet film 1956

    Muromets healthy person wink
    Thank you for the article.
  11. -1
    15 June 2019 14: 35
    ... the difference between epics and fairy tales, which was initially perceived by everyone as fiction.

    Well no. In ancient times, a fairy tale was perceived as a myth that reflected reality.
    The difference, rather, is that the epic was tied to specific elements of time and space, whereas in the fairy tale, abstract (or became) characters acted in the abstract world.
    In fact, this [about Kolovrat] is not at all harmless, but, on the contrary, very dangerous, because the creators of all these libels are trying to transcode the national consciousness, replacing the correct works with fakes.

    And the fact that in the era of the cobbling together of the Eurasian unions - the EAEU, the SCO - is such a film also subversive, incendiary, nothing?
  12. +5
    15 June 2019 15: 53
    Information is not enough.
    Welcome to visit a fairy tale!
    1. +6
      15 June 2019 16: 13
      Yes, at first glance it seems to be good with the article, but with historical informational content, sadness
      What really happens there hi
      1. +2
        15 June 2019 17: 04
        Quote: denatured alcohol
        with historical information pechalka

        Subject such. You probably did not expect categorical conclusions from the article - this one is that, and this one is that. Just thinking on the topic, based on a good knowledge of the material.
        1. +5
          15 June 2019 20: 52
          Yes, I did not expect the owner of the troglodyte. Neither from this article, nor from this author.
          It's not about the topic buddy. It's just that someone (I won't point my finger) - a great historian from a small town, a polyglot, an expert on everyone and everything, a multi-source (in a good understanding of the word, as he probably thinks) - and his articles, of course, are only ideal. One can speak about them only in superlatives: "oh, oh, thanks to the author, oh thanks, oh how valuable, great, excellent" and so on laughing
          on the other hand, this "genius" can blame others as he pleases, look for imaginary mistakes in other people's articles, pretend to be a smart guy, not owning information and based solely on the Internet.
          Therefore, whatever you say, all this will remain at the level of epics laughing
          and he will be considered great only here. well, if he needs recognition in VO, then for God's sake. And to someone who has recognition at a higher level, the screeching yellow press is, in principle, of little interest. Let them scream. For the self-satisfaction of His Grafoman Majesty laughing
          1. VLR
            +2
            16 June 2019 07: 05
            I seem to have a hater - just like all decent people smile
            Well, at all you will not please, no matter how hard you try. Science-based articles will be of little interest to most readers, it is necessary to balance, while also trying to literally process texts, trying to make them read easily and without tension. I must also say that I almost do not comment on other people's articles, and, if I comment on them, I am not so rude - I do not flaunt my complexes.
            1. +1
              16 June 2019 07: 42
              You will be surprised, Valery, but instead of Shpakovsky, it "flew" to you!
              1. VLR
                0
                16 June 2019 11: 11
                Well, V. Shpakovsky sometimes criticizes for illustrations (and not for being "from a small town", polyglot and expert laughing ), and so - praises, basically.
                1. 0
                  16 June 2019 11: 16
                  Not in this case! Shpakovsky has a lot of ill-wishers on the site, and some of them, for some reason, believe that V.O. a lot of "clones". Apparently you, too, have become a victim of similar delusions.
          2. VLR
            +1
            16 June 2019 07: 38
            By the way, I do not in any way limit your right to your own opinion, and to the freedom of expression. I always respond to adequate criticisms, often - right away, right in the discussion. If you did not answer, I still took it into account. You can not read my articles, if you are tired, you can freely comment - please.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. BAI
    +2
    15 June 2019 20: 52
    Duke Stepanovich

    I wonder if the name Duke has anything to do with the English Duke "Duke"?
  15. +5
    15 June 2019 21: 33
    The card pleased! Thank.
    It is interesting to travel along the verge of fairy tales. Almost like in life.

    And the images, for sure, changed throughout the course of history.
  16. +3
    15 June 2019 23: 10
    Remained villages of the north of the Arkhangelsk region - Mezen, Pinezhsky districts, where expanse for the Florists: only there, under all modes, ancient songs, tales and legends survived and survived. Although, now the Internet will reach there - that's all. The next generation will no longer be repeating and singing all this to their children with endless polar nights. So everything that has been preserved at the moment is the last of that legacy. And without this, our children will be made ukrami - easily and simply.
    By the way, interesting interpretations of the heroic epic still come across (I don't consider cartoons by Hollywood standards). For example, "Brave" by Oleg Divov.
    1. -1
      15 June 2019 23: 34
      Oye! Are you a fan of high-quality Russian-language fiction?
  17. -1
    15 June 2019 23: 48
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    Where are the Zyrians, the Ostyaks, the Waguls, the Chud, the Pelymians? Yes, they have stayed anywhere and live among us, speak Russian, consider themselves Russians, think Russian! But they not only joined the nation, but also enriched us with their cultures, languages, and customs.

    Zyryan, Ostyak, Vagula, Chud, Pelyutsy, as well as Komi, Permian, Udmurt, Mari, snout, Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians were / were half-breeds of Slavs and 1 / 2 Ugrofinns.

    At the same time, the settled Slavs in civilization stood above the nomadic ugrofinns at the time of the arrival of the latter from behind the Urals in the 1 of the millennium BC. Therefore, the cultural influence was extremely one-sided - wild ugrofinny (see the culture of purebred ugrofinnov - Yakuts) adopted from the Slavs the customs and skills of farming, metallurgy, the manufacture of ceramics, fabrics, embroidery, etc.

    By definition, mestizos cannot "enrich" the ethnos that took part in their own formation.
    1. +3
      16 June 2019 05: 12
      Andrey, here you are wrong! Read the tales of Bazhev! Snake, Ognevka, Deer silver hoof - direct borrowing from vagulas! The peculiarity of Russian expansion is the ability to take, absorb, borrow skills, traditions of the local population! Particularly bright - this is evident at the beginning of the Russian "campaign to the east" in the 10-12 centuries. Mordovians, Meshchera, Mari and others assimilated, and their descendants continued their expansion as Russian and Orthodox!
      A similar round of the process took place in the 16-17th centuries, when the Russian "vacuum cleaner" reached the Pacific Ocean and jumped over the Bering Strait!
      So there was mutual enrichment, not one-sided!
      1. -1
        16 June 2019 13: 29
        Once again, the Yakut-Ugrofinns could only share with the Slavs a sacred knowledge of the construction of tents and grazing of deer.

        Before the campaign of the Slavs to the east in the 1 millennium AD was the departure of the Slavs to the west in the 1 millennium BC under the onslaught of ugrofinnov - migrants from Asia. Moreover, the withdrawal was expressed in mixing part of the Slavs with the Ugrofinans in equal proportions, but the arrival - absorption of metis by an order of magnitude by the large Russian population (at the moment the descendants of the Ugrofinans in the Russians make up 1 / 7).
        1. 0
          16 June 2019 14: 04
          Andrew, let's not dissemble! In the first millennium BC Indo-Europeans wandered around Eurasia, not Slavs!
          In addition, if you climb into the derby you can find more bitter examples of cultural overlap for you! So, Baba Yaga has a direct prototype in the factorler of the Komi-Zyryans, Chuvashs and Permians! And with the hut on chicken legs, a stupa and a broom! By the way, even “hut” is not our original word, but one of the oldest borrowings from your unloved ones is ready! In other matters, like the "sword" !!!
          So 1/7 share is very, very much. And so try to isolate from the company of Russian - Nagaybak, Chuvash, Moriytsa or Mordvin !!! Yes, and being a hamayun, according to V. Trubitsky, I am a direct descendant of assimilated Finno-Ugric peoples !!! Which, by the way, speak and think in Russian and believe in Orthodoxy for at least 5 centuries !!!
          Regards, Vlad!
          1. +2
            16 June 2019 14: 24
            Indo-Europeans (people living simultaneously in Europe and India) are only the Aryans and their descendants. Residents of Western Europe - the Celts have never been to India, since their migration route from Altai to Europe ran north of the Caspian Sea, and the advance of the Celts to the southeast from Europe was limited to Asia Minor (Galatians).

            All other multi-ethnic peoples of the Indo-European language family (Scythians, Sarmatians, Persians, Greeks, Asia Minors before the conquest by the Turks) also never migrated to India. The Indo-European (Sanskrit) language was given to them by the nomadic Black Sea Aryans - blood relatives of sedentary Eastern European and Western European Slavs.

            Therefore, 99% so-called. borrowings in Slavic languages ​​are a legacy of their native Sanskrit and coincide with words in other Indo-European languages ​​only because of the coincidence of their foundations with the same Sanskrit (not native to Celts, Northern Semites, European Hamites, Illyrians, Dravidians, etc.)
            1. 0
              16 June 2019 14: 31
              I don’t argue, but the Germans, Slavs and Balts were the last fragment of the Indo-Europeans who had already fled in AD!
              1. +2
                16 June 2019 15: 49
                The Aryans came to the Balkans in the 12 millennium BC, the Celts on the Iberian Peninsula in the 4 millennium BC. The first contacts of the Celts with the Aryans were recorded at the end of the 2 of the millennium BC. - the battle in the valley of the Tollenze river, the migration of the Black Sea Aryans to Galshtad and the Carpathian Slav-Vends into the Venice Lagoon.

                The first migrations of Scandinavian-Illyrians (with an admixture of Central European Aryans, who made the Scandinavians Indo-European-speaking people) were recorded at the end of the 1 of the millennium BC. (cimbri). Germans (a mixture of Celts and Scandinavians) were formed from this point on until the last wave of Scandinavians (Angles and Saxons) in the middle of the 1 of the millennium AD

                So when did we manage to "run away" with the Germans?
  18. +1
    16 June 2019 18: 28
    Valery! Amazingly interesting article! Bravo!
    1. VLR
      0
      16 June 2019 18: 40
      Thank you, your positive feedback is always particularly encouraging.
  19. 0
    16 June 2019 18: 37
    I am interested in the figure of 12 million ... Who conducted the census? For the British this is "THE BOOK OF THE DREAMING COURT" and that year ... 1082 seems. And what kind of "book" we have and what year:
  20. 0
    4 August 2019 17: 45
    As for the epic image of Svyatogor, personally to me, the following interpretation seems to be the most meaningful: the ancient "pagan" hero made a joke, decided to try on the coffin, but Ilya the Christian, if not, hammered the coffin and set hoops. And the hero, to whom Ilya, together with the horse, was placed in his pocket, was gone - by the strength of the spirit and by the physical power.