Military Review

Personal self-defense. Judgment and effect: two life examples

146
If I had to choose between freedom of elections and freedom of the press, then I would choose freedom of the press.
The utterance of some historical figure



Those who more or less regularly read my publications will be able to recall that I mentioned there noisy media and public campaigns in defense of the self-defenders threatened with prison, the success of these campaigns, their own possible participation in them. I also wrote that more and more representatives of law enforcement and judicial systems are beginning to openly sympathize with the idea of ​​personal armed self-defense of citizens, trying in their activities not to follow the established practice of investigating and prosecuting such cases. Proceeding from this, I wrote that the need for media and public protection of investigators, judges and prosecutors who show legitimate loyalty to self-defenders, which is at odds with established judicial and investigative practice, or police officers who used no ceremony weapon during the detention of inveterate criminals. In particular, I myself organized and participated in the action of the Right to Arms movement in defense of the Moscow police officers who, chasing an Uzbek drug dealer, shot him dead when he started driving on a carriageway among passersby in his car.



In short, I began to receive very curious letters and I want to tell you about the two that have come in the last year and a half. I agreed this story with the authors of the letters, everyone asked for maximum anonymity. So…

In a certain, by no means depressed, but rather prosperous city with the status of a district center, there lived a guy from a simple family, a talented light heavyweight boxer with a powerful right-handed and remarkable reaction. Once he won a very prestigious competition, and when he returned home, he was joyfully dragged into a nightclub by familiar guys from the “golden youth”, local majors, who were flattered by having a champion in their company. And in the club another, steeper major Major crowd got angry because of envy and began to defiantly pester the girls from the boxer company, a fight ensued, the “cool ones” flew like crazy, later it turned out that they were “weed” smoked. The boxer, too, “harnessed” for his own, worked as the main fighter, beat carefully, only on the body, scattered enemies like balls. And suddenly, at some point, I saw that the leader of the rivals was now putting a knife in it, the answer was one reaction! He blocked his hand with a knife with his left, even cut himself slightly, and with his right one, he punched him in the face with all his heart. He did not kill, did not even knock out, but the brutal type very unsuccessfully fell at some angle. Spinal fracture, wheelchair disability for the rest of your life. Next - the police and the investigation. And the victim turned out to be the son of the richest local tycoons, who with the mayor of Vasya-Vas, mastered municipal budgets for the construction and improvement of the city. In general, the investigation was “stimulated” and tuned accordingly, the case went to court, the boxer was “ordered” for the longest term for inflicting grievous bodily harm under aggravating circumstances. The case turned out to be noisy, the city was worried, many sympathized with the boxer, but with sorrowful resignation did not believe in a fair decision. Mother of the unfortunate guy turned gray and cried all eyes. And suddenly the judge, an experienced, respected, honored person, delivered a practically acquittal sentence, giving a small suspended sentence, given that the boxer fought after drinking !! Tetanus! But the prosecutor and the victim’s lawyers quickly filed a cassation with the region in full confidence that the case would be returned to another judge for review. Before the regional hearing, the judge who released the boxer spoke with the chairman and the entire board of the regional court, where he stated that if the region returns the case for reconsideration, he will raise all local and Russian media to his feet and start preparing boxer appeals in all instances to the boxer up to the European Court! The regional judges even worried at first, saying that their colleague had gone mad inadvertently? But then everything ended quietly, solidly, in a compromise ... The regional court upheld the verdict, and the district judge resigned from the court, as if responding with his resignation instead of a boxer to those who wanted revenge.

The second история I came from the southern edges of the promising young prosecutor, now the former. As soon as he received a position in the regional prosecutor's office, he was immediately put to supervise the investigation of the murder case, so that he would later support the charges in court. And suddenly it turned out that a man whom he knew well was accused of murder on the basis of personal dislike during a conflict, to put it simply, fights. Both of them are from the local district of the city, studied at the same school, even made friends. This classmate of the prosecutor was a contract soldier in the army for a long time, passed hot spots, has awards and injuries, as well as a long reputation of a man not only brave, but also honest, balanced, friendly. The young prosecutor began to look very closely at the investigation, personally interviewed local operas, who were the first at the scene of the murder, studied all the testimony of the accused. And drew a picture ...

One day, late summer evening, the future defendant was walking along a deaf alley of his native town, there are many such nooks in the private one-story houses with gardens. And suddenly from behind a corner some type of nose-to-nose rushes at him and literally pokes a gun at his face, demands to put his hands behind his head and immediately begins to go around the pockets of a man with his free hand. But he reacted, unexpectedly snatched his hand with a pistol, turning it to 180 degrees! And the shot slammed, right in the eye of the attacker, on the spot. At first, the self-defender was taken aback, he tried to somehow “revive” the robber, touched his face, he also grabbed a gun without a clue. Then with the help of people he called the police and the ambulance, gave testimony. A couple of days later he was arrested and taken to the regional center for investigation. The victim turned out to be a petty recidivist, who served two short periods of time: one because of his minority for hooliganism, the second for an attempt to rob. In addition, a drug addict, perhaps a fatal assault was made to get a “dose” out of fear of the approaching “breaking.” His gun was an illegal injury. The investigation confidently led the case to the fact that the self-defense officer sat down heavily for murder in a scuffle on the basis of personal hostility, anticipating rewards for uncovering the murder and improving general regional indicators on detection. This calculation was based on two points: it was unclear whose injury was, there were fingerprints from both defendants, and there were no witnesses to the attack, and, as it turned out, once, still by high school students, both of these people had a strong fight once, because the future recidivist with his punks provoked a company of children, in which the future suspect was. But since that time, they have never crossed paths at all, the defendant has assured that he did not even recognize the victim when he jumped on him. Having studied all this, the young prosecutor went to consult with the regional prosecutor and during the conversation he pressed on the fact that he knew the suspect well and was confident in the veracity of his testimony. And the regional prosecutor said kindly and fatherly to him that in their common profession they should not take anything to heart and influence the result. They say that there is an immutable rule: "there is a corpse, there must be a landing," the investigation must be observed in compliance with the procedures, and not in substance. All doubts and circumstances in favor of the accused - the case of a lawyer and judges. If you do not agree, then you can easily be replaced by another prosecutor in this case, but for your career this will be a major puncture. After this conversation, the young prosecutor looked at the regional court practice in similar cases and realized that his countryman and friend did not “swim out”. However, the hands are not lowered. First of all, he persuaded to take up the protection of the accused of his acquaintance lawyer, a fellow student in law.

Began to steal a pair! The prosecutor demanded that the investigation find out exactly where the traumatic pistol came from, since the number was on it. And found out! The story was the wildest !! The injury had previously belonged to one doctor, who the previous year, in the previous summer, was driving his car to the sea along the road passing through the town where the described story occurred. His wife and two daughters were driving with the doctor: a first grader and a kindergarten nursery. At the entrance to the town, the doctor was stopped at a traffic police post, examined the car, found an injury in the glove compartment, checked his documents and released him. But in the town itself, the car was stopped again, the police with machine guns tied up the doctor and dragged them to the “monkey house”. They were kept there for an hour and a half, and then they began to "prick". They said that on the road where the doctor was traveling, there was a serious emergency with the use of trauma, and they must now detain him until the investigators come from the area. And the doctor in the car left a wife and daughters in fear and hysterics! In short, he escaped from these policemen, leaving them with his injury and five thousand rubles. The prosecutor easily found out the entire police outfit, who was on duty on the day the doctor was detained. Of course, there were no reports of the detention, and there were no stories of emergency on the road with the participation of the trauma either, but it turned out that a couple of police officers from this outfit had once been in the circle of the murdered offender. And later, the local opera, again at the personal request of the prosecutor, through their "snitchers" found out that the victim boasted of this injury to close chums and said that he bought it cheaply from "his cops", who often take such "toys" from passing on roads , then "pushed" someone will have to, and the proceeds collectively drunk. The prosecutor found out all this information without the participation of the investigation and did not provide the investigation. Then he managed to negotiate with the doctor so that he, if need be, would come to identify the policemen who had robbed him.

The trial of this case began at the appointed time, and nothing foreshadowed any super-events ... But suddenly, when the prosecutor’s speech began, he suddenly spoke out sharply in defense of the accused, said that he had at his disposal facts pointing to discovered circumstances, and asked the court to postpone the hearing to another day. The court agreed stunned! And at the entrance to the court gathered journalists from local newspapers and TV, this is a lawyer warning in advance. The case received wide publicity. The young prosecutor was urgently summoned to the regional prosecutor, where he told him what he had managed to dig up. And he is ready to throw out all this information to the press, if this court passes the sentence to the accused, planned by the investigation. The smell of scandal is not something of a regional, but an all-Russian scale. But the case ended quietly amicably. The accused was given a small suspended sentence. And the young prosecutor was already “fatherly harsh” and said that he was too “original” and would never fit into the team of the local prosecutor’s office. In short, get out yourself before we squeeze you out with a "wolf ticket" (deprivation of the right to engage in legal work!) Through some kind of fraud.

In general, the former judge mentioned above and the former prosecutor became lawyers and do not regret it. To them, customers queued up the bar, full and very cash. For people after the wide publicity of the events described above appreciated not only the professionalism of these lawyers, but also their reputation as honest advocates capable of human compassion.

I do not give these stories my personal assessment, but I really want to see how the readers will appreciate them.
Author:
146 comments
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  1. polar fox
    polar fox 5 June 2019 05: 32
    +35
    for the service I have never encountered honest judges or prosecutors ... I had to deal with investigators ... but also, already former ones, did not "fit in" ...
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 5 June 2019 08: 49
      +11
      I have never come across honest judges or prosecutors ..

      In one southern city I once came to a lawyer to file a lawsuit. He says: "Now I'll go up to the second floor, I'll talk to the judge, is there any point in suing." He comes and says that there are no judicial prospects. "
      I went to a higher court, to Rostov-on-Don. I come to court and ask where the lawyers are sitting here. And they say to me: "Where did you guy see that lawyers with judges were sitting together ?!"
      Here is a story illustrating our justice. wassat
      In the end, I did not win the court, but the hope of justice did not die anyway. If the article describes the truth, then there is hope.
    2. Basil50
      Basil50 5 June 2019 10: 04
      +8
      fox
      And this is because they have NO RESPONSIBILITY.
      Even in the wildest cases involving police officers, prosecutors, judges, NEVER have a chance of real punishment.
      There was such a very famous lady ELENA BOYKO and often flashed on TV. So, in violation of the law, she was convicted of being extradited to the Nazis on the outskirts. There, the judge made a decision and she was immediately expelled, right there without the right of appeal, into the hands of the SBU officers who were awaiting this.
      So what?
      No rumors about BOYKO.
      The judge seems to be doing well, as are his family members.
      If so it is possible in relation to a well-known media man, then draw your own conclusions .....
      1. thinker
        thinker 5 June 2019 14: 30
        0
        Quote: Vasily50
        there was such a ELENA BOYKO

        A very unfortunate example, it has not yet reached who Boyko is, Vishchur, Kunskaya -
        https://dailynews.ru/2019/01/18/zhurnalistka-elena-bojko-gde-ona-sejchas-poslednie-novosti-na-segodnja.html
      2. garrett
        garrett 6 June 2019 09: 10
        +4
        And this is because they have NO RESPONSIBILITY.

        no, not that. Unfortunately, the prosecutor’s office still has a cane system, which assesses the success of the work of the prosecutor’s office. accidentally witnessed a telephone conversation between the sledak and the 53 chief of the military prosecutor’s office. was shocked))
    3. yehat
      yehat 5 June 2019 13: 37
      +5
      Quote: polar fox
      and never came across the service

      it's obvious system
      is there an opportunity to influence it or only cleaning in the style of unforgettable security officers?
    4. meandr51
      meandr51 5 June 2019 14: 56
      +4
      And I tried 2 times, once in a criminal court as a victim - both times the judges were adequate and neutral. Moscow and Khimki.
      1. yehat
        yehat 5 June 2019 16: 10
        +6
        Quote: meandr51
        both times the judges were adequate and neutral

        it happens so long as small sums are at stake, and if the interests of large organizations come into play, or if they have large amounts, everything is different.
        Recently I was in Kabarda. Poor town, no work. One of the richest citizens goes to a Japanese
        and only the judge has gelding in the garage
        I am familiar with them and people are excellent, but I don’t understand how to make money on the gelding.
        1. Frieda
          Frieda 6 June 2019 16: 58
          0
          Quote: yehat
          Recently I was in Kabarda. Poor town, no work. One of the richest citizens goes to a Japanese
          and only the judge has gelding in the garage
          I am familiar with them and people are excellent, but I don’t understand how to make money on the gelding.

          What is the name of the "town", do not tell me? In the "poorest" one, in Mayskoye, "some of the rich" drive "Japanese women" to the market, and these "Japanese women" are no worse than "Kruzak" or "Haylax", and the cars are far from the only ones. I don’t know about judges, I haven’t come across them, but the population has a lot of good cars. hi
    5. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 6 June 2019 08: 55
      +7
      When discussing the topic of self-defense, they usually fall into two polar opinions:

      1) "how not to defend yourself - they will still go to prison, the law does not protect us, not an honest court, purchased police, money decides everything"
      2) "you can do everything for self-defense and you cannot be punished for it"

      In fact, the former exaggerate the colors, while the latter, together with the former, lump everything together, not realizing that "self-defense" is far from shooting everyone and everything on their territory.

      For self-defense you can really do everything to protect yourself or your loved ones from encroachment on life and so on, but ... only at this very moment of encroachment or at the moment immediately coming.

      Before that, nothing like this can be done, because the court will consider it as an attack on the attacker. It is a man with a knife, but does not attack - you can not shoot.

      After - it is also impossible: lynching. Hijacked a car - you cannot shoot afterwards, you cannot shoot a criminal leaving the scene of a crime ... and if a robbery takes place, long in time, the victim was tied up, but seizing the moment, the victim freed himself, took out the hidden weapon and ... - everything will be done. still self-defense. Unless the medical examiner later says that the "victim" finished off the robbers with a shot in the head, for example. The self-defender fired - the PP (bad guy) fell, dropped his weapon, does not attack anymore - you cannot shoot and finish off. Although if a lot of bullet holes are found in the PP's body, there will still be questions. Either in a state of passion the person fired, or in reality the PP was on substances and one bullet was not enough.

      Exceptions may be the case when the defender by his actions prevents much harm. There could be anything from a burst somewhere in a school or an inadequate hospital with a gun to ... God forbid.

      In fact, the court will consider many details of the case, including the personality and "life story" of the defender and, accordingly, the injured attacker, and the previously convicted person is likely to sit down again this time.
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 6 June 2019 09: 07
        +5
        I will add from myself that I say this with all responsibility, as every day carrying a weapon under a self-defense license and, yes, it is not in Russia.
    6. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 6 June 2019 09: 41
      +2
      https://relvaluba.wordpress.com/samooborona/


      Weapons permit in Estonia

      Self-defense and extreme necessity with examples - in the spoiler.

    7. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 6 June 2019 09: 51
      +3
      This is how things stand with the law on self-defense with weapons in Estonia, where the short-barrel is legal for self-defense, if there is an appropriate license "C", and everyone has it, unless the application states that the weapon is only needed for sports. Then in".
      Usually they take a license "VS" if an active member of a sports club. You need to get a minimum of 5 points per year for competitions, of which 2 points at least - a national competition.

      In Russian, for one's sake.

      https://relvaluba.wordpress.com/samooborona/karistuseadustik/
    8. Shelest2000
      Shelest2000 6 June 2019 19: 04
      +7
      Something is hard to believe. Some kotolampovye stories with a happy ending.

      I can only assume that these are so isolated cases that they are not even included in the statistics, as are crimes with legal weapons, so few of them.
      Let me just remind you that in our "fairest courts" with unfavorable judges, 99,64% of guilty verdicts are passed (under Stalin, 10-13% were acquitted).
      At the same time, about 2000 (two thousand) people who dared to protect themselves, relatives, and third parties are sent to the zone every year.
    9. mac789
      mac789 10 June 2019 00: 17
      +1
      Over the past 4 years, I have come across several judges, prosecutors and staff, just in the case of self-defense.
      I can say that within the framework of the current system, people worked with maximum understanding. Although I naturally got a criminal record. I was awarded a condition for 5 months for winning a duel on improvised subjects, and 10 for my opponent.
  2. Rust
    Rust 5 June 2019 05: 38
    +18
    It remains to feel like I read a book. Good, with a good ending. I agree with the author.
    1. Andrey Sukharev
      Andrey Sukharev 5 June 2019 05: 53
      +30
      The bad thing is that these cases are an exception to the rule ... How many such cases have already ended with the landing of a person who repulsed scum. And then the society is surprised: people, they say, have become indifferent to other people's misfortunes, they are passing by. Therefore, they pass, they know what can turn around ...
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 5 June 2019 10: 38
        +9
        Yes, it's not bad. The bad thing is that in both cases the established system of administration of justice leads to conviction, and this very curve is the norm in our country. Moreover, the authorities of all levels have an unbreakable confidence that everything should be so.
        Of course, they do not associate such a situation with the fact that, for example, real production does not develop in our country, but only automatic plants are imported from abroad. Tell them that there is a direct connection, he will not understand what it is about. That's where the real trouble!
        And the fact that a couple of people were sentenced to a shorter period for what they were not at all guilty of, this is not a victory. Moreover, good people had to leave law enforcement agencies.
      2. Pax tecum
        Pax tecum 5 June 2019 12: 55
        +10
        Here, came the likeness of the adoption of the law on self-defense. We would have so justified!
        The very spirit of the law and the concept of law on the side of the defending ...
        And, our law enforcement practice leaves much to be desired, the courts and prosecutors distort the very right to self-defense and self-defense, in their own interests.

        On April 26, Italian President Sergio Mattarella signed the Self-Defense Law, according to which, according to the European press, "Italians will now be able to shoot criminals who break into their homes with impunity."
        “Being a criminal in Italy becomes deadly”
        The norm was promoted by the Liga party, whose leader - the current Deputy Prime Minister of the Italian government and Italian Minister of Internal Affairs Matteo Salvini - the European Union elite and the press controlled by it love a stick like a dog.

        The main provision of the new law is to establish regulations «the defender is always right».
        Previously, it was within the jurisdiction of the court to determine whether the person who used the weapon had sufficient grounds to fire. Who had to build complex schemes, weighed numerous pros and cons to decide whether the response was proportional to the degree emanating from the attacker. And, despite the fact that a criminal who broke into someone else’s house was perceived as a lawbreaker, Themis had to approach the situation from a purely human, not legal position: yes, the robber was a criminal, yes, he had a mount in his hands (brass knuckles, baseball bat , etc.), with which he could smash his head into the owner of the dwelling into which he had invaded. But why would the owner, instead of taking up arms, not run away from home and call the police? To deprive a person’s life, even a criminal, is, you know, called murder, and the guilty party is punished.

        Now the person who pulled the trigger "because of the need to protect their right to life and property» not guilty in any way

        «The formula "protection is always legal" becomes an axiom, - emphasizes on the pages of the Spanish La Vanguardia its Roman correspondent Anna Buch.
        “According to the initiators of the law, such a statement of the question will help reduce the number of crimes, in particular robberies, robberies, burglaries”.

        «Self-defense is finally becoming truly legal action.and this frees those who suffered from the encroachment of criminals and forced to defend themselves with weapons to help them, from the humiliating procedure of proving their innocence, ”commented lawyer Julia Bonjorno on the fact that the president signed the new law.

        The new rule also provides for the release of the harm that was defended from the obligation to compensate for the harm caused to the health of the offender, and in the event of his death, from the need to pay financial compensation to his relatives, as it was before. It is not necessary now to spend money on lawyers to prove the absence of his guilt in what happened.

        “From this day on, criminals must understand that being a thief, robber and robber in Italy has become mortally dangerous,” the Italian edition of Il Giornale quotes the Minister of the Interior, who commented on the signing of the new law by the President of the country.
        - I do not agree with those who claim that with this we turn our state into the Wild West with shooting for any reason. And we do not distribute weapons to everyone - the requirements for persons wishing to legally acquire firearms remain the same. But today we are telling our people that their security has received a new, higher degree of guarantees. ”

        The new law does not mean that henceforth in Italy any citizen of the country can acquire weapons for self-defense. Everyone who wants to must first be examined by a psychiatrist, then - get the approval of the police (those who have a criminal record are not worth wasting time).
      3. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 6 June 2019 09: 01
        +3
        From the point of view of morality, it is imperative to repulse the scum.

        From the point of view of the law, the law does not require people to be heroes. If a person resists violence, honor and praise him, but the law does not oblige him to do so.

        Another thing is that, by offering resistance to scum, it is impossible to cross the line, beyond which it is no longer resistance and self-defense, but real self-propelling.

        Therefore, from the moral side, there are a lot of cases in which a person is heroically (I speak without a bit of irony, really heroically) confronted filth, but could not stop in time and ... finished off. So, here, sit down such a hero, because the law is harsh, but it is the law.

        hi

        I will add from myself that I say this with all responsibility, as every day carrying a weapon under a self-defense license and, yes, it is not in Russia.
    2. would
      would 5 June 2019 16: 38
      +5
      Where is the good ending? According to this "book", two innocent people were not acquitted, but sentenced. Even to a suspended sentence, but sentenced with all that it implies.
  3. Dmitry Potapov
    Dmitry Potapov 5 June 2019 05: 41
    +27
    Swung, hit! He took out a knife, dir! He took out the barrel, shoot! I'm not sure if you will complete the above, then don't even try and run. The law (interpreted) is almost one hundred percent against the defender, we do not like the "terpile" who suddenly became a superman.
    1. AnpeL
      AnpeL 5 June 2019 08: 10
      +13
      Oh, if self-defense would not be punished in our country so severely and wildly (!!), perhaps the recent incident with Nikita Belyankin would have ended pitifully for the criminals, and not for himself. And something like a person is traumatized, and afraid to use it for its intended purpose - a raven to scare the maximum in the air
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 5 June 2019 10: 43
        +16
        Quote: AnpeL
        Oh, if self-defense would not be punished in our country so severely and wildly

        Do not you see? Such punishment is because the attackers are either members of the ruling clans, or they bring direct benefits to guess who. The right of the major to kill and maim you with impunity is sacredly guarded by our law enforcement system, and it categorically prevents you from defending yourself. Plus financial interest.
        Just loosen the fetters, and what will happen? Once again, a representative of the ruling class will decide to "rest and relax" and will he be shot? Just for killing one other prole? Well, or did you move there drunk, or else how did you rest? Just give these Russians half a chance, so you really have to comply with the laws!
        Are you out of your mind?)
      2. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 5 June 2019 16: 13
        +11
        I just want to write a memo to the defender: "I defended myself and loved ones, hide the corpse of a criminal." belay
    2. AUL
      AUL 5 June 2019 08: 58
      +12
      Quote: Dmitry Potapov
      The law (interpreted) is almost one hundred percent against the defender, we do not like the "terpile" who suddenly became a superman.

      The country tolerated ... It’s easier to rob the state. Therefore, they teach us to think that your rights are only on paper, and the authorities can do anything!
  4. savage1976
    savage1976 5 June 2019 05: 50
    +22
    It's time to change this system. My home is my fortress and uninvited guests are perfectly legitimate to escort a canister.
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 5 June 2019 08: 02
      +7
      One hundred thousand agree .. We need to revise the laws on self-defense.
      Although I am committed to the ideas of socialism, but I believe that we need to look carefully at how they are doing and ALL of the BEST to adopt.
      We do not need such extremes with weapons as in America: why on automatic rifles, but it is necessary to allow short-barrels.
      1. Ravik
        Ravik 5 June 2019 09: 21
        -13
        In Soviet times, when there was no gas or trauma - murder with the use of firearms was equated with sensation.
        If you allow the shortbore to buy it first thugs and Russia will turn into the Wild West.
        Open YouTube on the video there when a conflict occurs immediately get Trauma.
        Allow shortbore will get it.
        This is a dead end road.
        1. Revival
          Revival 5 June 2019 09: 43
          +5
          Well, so if in Youtube it is not selective to watch, then there are even more clips about the humiliation, the beating of defenseless victims, what do you offer them?
          What is your working plan?
          Be patient?
          1. Ravik
            Ravik 5 June 2019 09: 53
            +2
            The police must do this.
            Now we do not have the Police, but the police.
            It is enough to remember Maru Baghdasaryan, who wiped her feet about our power. (I would try to behave in America that way.)
            My working plan is not and never will be. Not that caliber.
            If the authorities like Mara ... we have what we have.
            1. Revival
              Revival 5 June 2019 09: 57
              +5
              Well, without a counter offer, you offer victims to endure, endure, and endure ... A good offer
              1. Ravik
                Ravik 5 June 2019 10: 01
                +7
                There is already one efficient comment here - It is necessary to restore order in the law enforcement and judicial systems.
                And my or yours or any other suggestions are a single shot.
                No one will listen to us. Empty air shake.
              2. Per se.
                Per se. 5 June 2019 10: 31
                +2
                Quote: Revival
                Value proposition
                Mikhail Markovich has a "sensible proposal", everything is solved simply, the short-barreled must be allowed, and there will be peace, but God's grace ... Apparently, the standard of tranquility, freedom and justice in the States, in which, by evil irony, Maria Butina was sued, activist "Rights to Arms".
                Touches, from Michael Markovich -
                I myself organized and participated in the action of the Right to Arms movement in defense of the Moscow police, who, chasing the Uzbek drug dealer
                "Uzbek drug dealer", and for the impudent "golden boys", did you have to chase? "The right to arms", the right for whom? Shops are bursting with weapons, go and buy! Maybe "The Right to Self-Defense"? This right is spelled out in the law, and no one forbade self-defense. Then what do the masters want? "The right to lynching," this is closer to the topic, without trial and investigation, for a personal understanding of the threat, with the main thing, and so that I have nothing for it. And little will change, the one who has less money will still be guilty, but there will be more to kill "orphaned and barefoot". Maybe that's enough here about "tolerated the country", those who can't imagine themselves without a gun, just as they can't imagine that order and legality in the country do not create weapons. There is a reason, and there are consequences, so it is necessary to fight against the reason, then even without short-barrels, there will be peace and prosperity in Russia, fair laws and honest judges.
                1. Revival
                  Revival 5 June 2019 10: 44
                  +1
                  I agree, I, too, for all the good and that in the world in general, no one was ill. We wait...
                2. neri73-r
                  neri73-r 5 June 2019 13: 15
                  0
                  Quote: Per se.
                  But the reason, and there are the consequences, so it is necessary to fight with the cause, then without a short-hair in your pants there will be peace and prosperity in Russia, fair laws and fair judges.

                  Golden words! hi
            2. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 5 June 2019 16: 17
              +2
              She has money and dad is upstairs. We have capitalism and there (in the West) capitalism happens the same thing. For money, with the presence of power go unpunished. Only they are silent about this, but they are trumpeting here.
            3. Dart2027
              Dart2027 5 June 2019 19: 46
              +4
              Quote: Ravik
              The police must do this.

              The police must do this, but no police can be everywhere at once, because you cannot put an OMON guard at every corner. Here comes to the fore the question of self-defense.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 5 June 2019 10: 59
          +8
          Quote: Ravik
          If you allow the shortbore to buy it first thugs and Russia will turn into the Wild West.

          and if they kill with a kitchen knife, then this is the Wild East? You can kill and fist-chop off hands at school?
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 5 June 2019 13: 58
            +2
            Quote: Silvestr
            and if they kill with a kitchen knife, then this is the Wild East?
            Sylvester, let's not look like, - "This is water, and this is a well. Quench your thirst and leave. The horse has white eyes, but it is dark inside" ...
            If killed with a kitchen knife, a hunting shotgun, a car, or a shoelace, the items are not used for their intended purpose. It will not be possible to legitimize the "kitchen knife" a priori, for such a murder you will definitely have to answer in court and investigation. Another thing is a short-barreled weapon, a military weapon (not gas, not traumatic, not hunting, not sports), it has no other purpose, only the destruction of the enemy, shooting to kill. With such a legalized status, the short barrel is very different from the weapon bought for hunting or sport shooting (where even for hunting game you need a license, the opening of the hunting season).

            There is no need to dissemble here, but to breed demagoguery. The fact of the matter is that all of Mikhail Goldreier's articles are attempts "not by washing, by rolling" to prove that there will be no order without a short-barrel. You might think that corrupt police officers and corrupt judges appeared because the population has few weapons, there is no short-barreled with the right to shoot to kill. It will not be possible to kill with a "dirty knife", but from a beautiful pistol, such as "cultured", you can.


            The problem is that the law on self-defense is fair and understandable, so that you can defend yourself with any object, if we are talking about life and death, including a kitchen knife. But, only the court must decide why you killed the attacker, it is a compulsory measure, an accident, or a premeditated murder in excess of the necessary defense. According to Goldreer, with his associates, only the owner of the short-barreled trunk can decide who will live and who will be shot in the forehead, and so that this "white gentleman", with his magic pistol, would not legally get anything for it. Are there few problems with disassembly in an accident now? Does a car with a license strongly discipline boors and scoundrels? These boors and scoundrels, with legalized pistols and the right to shoot to kill, will not become kinder and more decent. That's the whole tale, any person should have the right to self-defense, with any weapon (or object as a weapon), but with obligatory responsibility under an understandable and fair law, and not an irresponsible lynching. Here we need a different morality in society as a whole, a society of consumers with a cult of money will not save weapons, so it will be - whoever is richer is right, venality and corruption. By and large, we do not need the "Right to Arms", but the right to a socially oriented state, if you like, the "Right to socialism" with the people's power. In the Soviet Union, there were bars on the windows only in the windows of savings banks, and in the zone, and ordinary people often did not even lock the doors, and even policemen mostly walked without weapons. There is someone with whom and what to compare, if we talk about order and tranquility.
            1. frog
              frog 5 June 2019 14: 32
              +5
              In the examples given by the author, I personally did not see any hint of a firearm of any length. Possibly, after a break ..... I saw only examples of "so-called law enforcement practice" and, as an exception, how some individuals managed to avoid them. The details of these stories are unknown, at least to me. Maybe it was not like that. But they are quite typical for all of Russia. And the main problem is that the entire "funeral system" does not exist for the declared purposes at all. And to serve the interests of the ruling class (see Marxism-Leninism)))) and as a thing in itself ..... Other institutions (medicine, education, etc.) function in the same way. And if we are talking about rights, then, to begin with, it would be nice if the existing laws would work. At least somehow .... And then we can talk about which of them are needed and which are not. As for the paradisiacal Soviet Union, let’s not be as if we lived with the deceased, and I know how it was there. He was different, peace be upon him, and not always, and not all of his institutions cause nostalgia.
              1. Lekov L
                Lekov L 5 June 2019 22: 31
                +1
                One hundred thousand agree .. We need to revise the laws on self-defense.
                Although I am committed to the ideas of socialism, but I believe that we need to look carefully at how they are doing and ALL of the BEST to adopt.

                And the main problem is that the entire "funeral system" does not exist for the declared purposes at all. And to serve the interests of the ruling class (see Marxism-Leninism)))) and as a thing in itself ..... Other institutions (medicine, education, etc.) function in the same way. And if we are talking about rights, then, to begin with, it would be nice if the existing laws would work. At least somehow .... And then we can talk about which of them are needed and which are not. As for the paradisiacal Soviet Union, let's not, as it were, because I lived with the deceased, and I know how it was there. He was different, peace be upon him, and not always, and not all of his institutions cause nostalgia.


                Socialism was also different, for example, in accordance with a considerable age, I also remember a guy who sat down for a real term for hitting a drunken thug with a knife with a garbage can on the head. Moreover, the trash can appeared as a cold weapon, and the knife was lost. And the son of the 2nd secretary of the regional committee (do you know who this is not from Vika?) For murder, also drunk, with the ax of his own drunk girlfriend, who received an examination in a local psychiatric hospital ... and after a year with a little "cured" and reinstated in rights, the university and the Komsomol ...
                Any power and always "did not love" the people, he always and everyone interfered with it.
                No need about socialism and democracy - they are all ... the same ... predators.
                It is necessary that people have the right to dignity, which can be defended by any means: in court, firearm, knife, frying pan and fists.
                Sometimes it is a pity the nineties - some now sharply toned me they changed it when they realized that at the entrance (near the cottage, at the club, etc.) they were shocked by a teapot mounted on a teapot from despair from their grandmother or father. And now everything is for the law, corrupt law enforcement officers and communications are hiding.
                Including because of this for the right to arms. More modest will be.
                Something like this.
                With respect to all colleagues, colleagues and counterparties - maybe a discussion will lead to something. hi
                1. frog
                  frog 5 June 2019 22: 46
                  +2
                  How can I tell you about the tonality .... I am not very interested in tonality, I am more interested in responsibility if the law provides for it. Let's say, not so much so long ago, a certain lady crushed by chance a police major (maybe the police, I don’t remember, for sure). Tellingly, pregnant because the major was female. And the papa at the major was the colonel of the same office. And what was this lady? That's right, nothing. EMNIP, gave conditionally something, and that is ridiculous.
                  There is no right to dignity here. As it was not. With extremely rare exceptions. Not for this whole vertical of power climbed into it. And so it has always been, with rare exceptions. But now, although this is a weak excuse))))), it is possible to dig through the Internet and raise the noise. Not the fact that will help, but still ... In the Union, and this was impossible.
                  Therefore, no right to a weapon will exist. Well, and purely technical question. How much will it cost per month to acquire and maintain practical shooting skills? As I know - not very cheap. The illusion that you have a trunk and you are the king of sowing - well, that guy had a trunk, even a trauma. So what? It does not help all of the mess and lawlessness. And even if they allow anyone to thread a certain official into a fucking official, he will immediately sit down for terrorism. Business .....
                  1. Lekov L
                    Lekov L 5 June 2019 23: 08
                    +2
                    who is the thread in a certain fucking official - will immediately sit down for terrorism

                    Sit down, Dmitry, I agree.
                    Another person, still alive, will think ..
                    Example: here, one young frightened me just now, that he is a cop - after explanations on the powerful obscene one, that I am an army captain of the reserve, and even if I sit in prison, too, people are different, and in the other world, as a cop, a separate frying pan is already heated, it seems.
                    Hello now, probably sobered up.
                    Sincerely.
                    1. frog
                      frog 5 June 2019 23: 16
                      +2
                      I agree, maybe sobered up. But get caught in his place a little more ...... quirky ...... character, could have troubled nemeryannom. Out of the blue. This is not to tighten my tail, but to the fact that as soon as these things enter into the system (which is very unlikely, alas), the authorities will immediately come up with something. Since it is precisely for this that it exists with us. It is necessary to solve the problem in a complex, one scuffle, even in the case - no shisha will come out. Again, did the reptilians send all these characters to us from Mars? So there seems to be no, the flesh of the people's flesh))) Who would say in the same serpast, that the electorate barbecues with kebabs under the windows of high-rise buildings would create - I would laugh. But no, they are doing it, and how else .... Or in the same universities, go occasionally for pairs, download courseworkers from the Internet, do not hesitate much - and voila, the cardboard is in your pocket.
                      1. Lekov L
                        Lekov L 5 June 2019 23: 28
                        +1
                        Uhlomu probably in the scrap with a pensioner of one hundred and ten kg butt - heroism is small, and you can ogresti right on the spot. And for almost 60 years, I also have friends among various security officials with law enforcement officers and vice versa - there are.
                        And that the flesh of the flesh characters - they have always been about and sorry.
                        But ... damn the code (complex) of the builder and patriot of the Motherland is nowhere to go.
                        I will continue to suffer until I run into a "cunning character". And then how will he take it out .. I will not change myself - age, although not superstar laughing
                        Thank you for the dialogue. hi
                      2. frog
                        frog 5 June 2019 23: 32
                        +1
                        So, it .... Not at all))) Good luck wink
                  2. ver_
                    ver_ 9 June 2019 05: 35
                    +1
                    ... what skills do you need at point-blank shooting? ..
                    1. frog
                      frog 10 June 2019 22: 21
                      -1
                      Yes, for a start, get it out quickly enough, without shooting yourself through something you need)))) Well, and so on ..... There is a lot of things, if not by the militants to judge this delicate matter. There are "accomplices" who practice this business regularly, you can ask them. And what about the "stop" .... With it, "hardware" will definitely not help you ....
            2. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 5 June 2019 16: 23
              +3
              Gold words. But socialism can not be returned back, and the moral of us erase hot iron. Under capitalism, there is no socially oriented state and its employees. There will be no incorruptible judges and prosecutors. Such states in the system do not survive. By definition, there will be no justice under capitalism. Yes, and never did.
              1. Goodmen
                Goodmen 5 June 2019 18: 11
                +2
                Quote: AKuzenka
                But socialism can not be returned back, and the moral of us erase hot iron.


                the "guarantor" said that there would be no return to socialism. the "podgarantnik" urged to go into business. Why go somewhere if you can organize your own business at your workplace. Moreover, the trend is such that it is no longer important where the "businessman" works. Yes, even in the state service. It will also be easier.
            3. New Year day
              New Year day 5 June 2019 21: 46
              +5
              Quote: Per se.
              That's the whole story, any person should have the right to self-defense, with any weapon (or subject as a weapon), but with obligatory responsibility under an understandable and fair law, and not irresponsible samosud.

              agree
            4. Horse, people and soul
              Horse, people and soul 6 June 2019 09: 31
              +3
              These louts and bastards, with legalized pistols and the right to shoot to kill, will not become kinder and more decent.


              Well, if you decide to beat a boor (for rudeness) with a bat, then he has the right to stop you, including using a weapon registered in self-defense.

              And, here the boor will absolutely not have the right to shoot you if you try to settle the matter with words and do not attack this, behold, the boor himself.

              Feel the difference?
              1. shura7782
                shura7782 7 June 2019 09: 48
                -2
                Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
                And, here at the boor he will absolutely not have the right to shoot at you if you try to settle the matter with the words ..........
                Be so kind, you will now walk not only with the COP, but also with the DVR to prove your point. Maybe the judge will believe you, and maybe not.
                1. Horse, people and soul
                  Horse, people and soul 7 June 2019 13: 52
                  +2
                  You will now walk not only with the COP, but also with the DVR


                  I will walk where it is least dangerous, and where it is least dangerous, there is usually a lot of people, read - witnesses. This time. And I have pepper gas on my "first line of defense". First gas and do your legs. If one and such not at all heroic behavior does not pinch his own vanity. If you are really crazy - only then shoot. These are two.

                  hi
        3. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 5 June 2019 16: 15
          0
          Prompt straight and clear path.
        4. Garris199
          Garris199 9 June 2019 14: 01
          +1
          To prevent weapons from being bought by scumbags or mentally unhealthy, it is enough to follow the procedure for issuing a license. Strictly control the Internet services “home delivery license” and severely punish all officials who turned a blind eye to certain circumstances when issuing a permit.
        5. Lena363
          Lena363 9 June 2019 15: 53
          +1
          Suppose scumbags have a short barrel and without permissions with licenses. But respectable citizens are left without him and there is nothing to answer.
      2. meandr51
        meandr51 5 June 2019 15: 02
        +2
        You do not know: automatic rifles in the United States are prohibited everywhere. A semi-automatic and allowed us.
        1. Horse, people and soul
          Horse, people and soul 6 June 2019 09: 12
          +2
          Automatic weapons are allowed in one or several states of everything, where loops from all over the United States come to post-guns, but such weapons are more expensive than 10 more precisely than the same, but only self-loading ones.
      3. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 6 June 2019 09: 11
        +2
        The laws, Astra, can always be improved. But no improvement of the law exempts this law from responsibility.

        Judging by the comments, not everyone understands what is written in the law, and then they complain that the law is bad.

        I will add from myself that I say this with all responsibility, as every day carrying a weapon under a self-defense license and, yes, it is not in Russia.
  5. Ravik
    Ravik 5 June 2019 05: 51
    +16
    Hard to fight against the system.
    One day, while waiting for the signature of my paper in the traffic cop's office, I heard a conversation on a cell phone.
    Traffic cop:
    - No ... no ... we do not have access to this judge ...
    And it is in the open, not at all embarrassed by outsiders ...
    I made a conclusion for myself: do not approach the "servants of the people."
    1. populist
      populist 5 June 2019 08: 15
      +12
      Ravik (Sergey)
      I made a conclusion for myself: do not approach the "servants of the people."

      In his youth, two times handed hooligans and rowdy police. 40 years ago it was. Now, from time to time I receive instructions from my spouse “not to interfere in anything and not to approach law enforcement officials”.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 5 June 2019 11: 01
        +2
        Quote: populist
        In his youth, two times handed hooligans and rowdy police. 40 years ago it was.

        I, while studying at the institute, somehow detained a shop robber. I brought it to the police, and they pulled a knife out of his pocket. A few months later, at the same place, the student was stabbed to death. Wait would not chase
    2. Filing
      Filing 5 June 2019 10: 36
      +3
      I can tell from my own experience.
      Ukraine I am at the court of second instance and I see two lawyers sitting. One of the lawyers to the other. Why are you defending? Let's go to a restaurant and decide who will win the trial. Even lawyers can be dangerous.
  6. Alex66
    Alex66 5 June 2019 06: 41
    +13
    Yet Chekhov long before described the Chameleon in the story, and these are the chameleons and the prosecutor's office, the court, all our officials are chameleons. Rich - honor and respect, patience - to endure humiliation, scumbag - well, what to take with him ...
  7. slavaseven
    slavaseven 5 June 2019 06: 43
    +13
    Rotten system
  8. German Titov
    German Titov 5 June 2019 06: 46
    +7
    If it comes to court-acquittal practically does not happen.
  9. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
    SERGEY SERGEEVICS 5 June 2019 07: 29
    +9
    First of all, we need to first review our laws on self-defense both among civilians and law enforcement agencies, and then talk about any self-defense. This is an isolated case when a person was left free after the use of self-defense, mostly for such a long time, even he acted within the framework of the law, perhaps this incident was on a special account of higher standing bodies, and because of this, an inspection was carried out on this fact within the framework of the law and a moderate sentence was pronounced.
    1. Oslyabya
      Oslyabya 5 June 2019 08: 58
      +17
      The fundamental mistake, and my opinion - for self-defense there should be no deadline IN PRINCIPLE! Noo-ko-go!
      1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
        SERGEY SERGEEVICS 5 June 2019 10: 11
        +2
        Exactly, but in practice the situation is completely different. A person must defend himself and his family by any means, but in reality it turns out defending himself, he only aggravates his business. Legislation needs to be changed for the better.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 5 June 2019 11: 03
          +4
          Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          in fact, it turns out defending himself, he only aggravates his work.

          if it is allowed, then the courageous will threaten the representative of power. This is unacceptable
          1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
            SERGEY SERGEEVICS 5 June 2019 11: 28
            +1
            For this, it is also necessary to revise the laws and representatives of the authorities so that they have the right to deter such cases, so that no one can target employees.
        2. Dmitriy84
          Dmitriy84 23 September 2019 16: 10
          0
          first lawmakers need to change. Or rather replace
      2. free
        free 5 June 2019 15: 34
        +4
        Quote: Oslyabya
        The fundamental mistake, and my opinion - for self-defense there should be no deadline IN PRINCIPLE! Noo-ko-go!


        This is not a fundamental mistake, it is a calculation on the part of the authorities. The authorities do not need an organized, proactive, cohesive society. This is their terrible dream. To demoralize, atomize the people, this is what they do.
      3. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 6 June 2019 09: 16
        +3
        The fundamental mistake, and my opinion - for self-defense there should be no deadline IN PRINCIPLE! Noo-ko-go!


        Absolutely right! A B C O L U T N O !!!

        but...

        It should be exactly self-defense, not lynching with weapons. This is the problem. People are confused.

        I will add from myself that I say this with all responsibility, as every day carrying a weapon under a self-defense license and, yes, it is not in Russia.
  10. Dimy4
    Dimy4 5 June 2019 07: 52
    +7
    We will not have a personal self-defense plebeians to defend is forbidden, swallowed silently and went on, you will defend yourself, you will get into the jail.
  11. Altona
    Altona 5 June 2019 08: 07
    +3
    “You wouldn't have pictures, chief, you should write books!” It seems that I read the continuation of an old book about the times of Ulrich and Vyshinsky about criminal offenses. I don't remember who, maybe even Ulrich wrote it, or one of their associates.
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 5 June 2019 08: 55
      +3
      Altona, I only know one lawyer-writer from that time - Shein, I think: "Notes of the Investigator." As a child, I saw this book from someone and even remember that there is about some famous "bugbear" - a specialist in safes
      1. Altona
        Altona 5 June 2019 14: 47
        +1
        Quote: Astra wild
        one lawyer-writer from that time - Shein, it seems: "Notes of the Investigator."

        -----------------------
        Oh, for sure, Lev Sheinin, I remember what a not-so-Russian name is and a surname by ear.
      2. frog
        frog 5 June 2019 23: 37
        +1
        Namely Lev Sheinin, and, precisely, "Notes of the Investigator". There is not only about the bugbear. And he himself has a biography - it will be no worse than any other novel. However, I turned out, I even wrote books ...
      3. ver_
        ver_ 9 June 2019 05: 43
        0
        ... however, he * drove * was - light- ..
  12. Maltus
    Maltus 5 June 2019 08: 09
    -10
    In the second case, the contractor himself shot from his weapon! And the cops sang a fairy tale, accidentally turned on 180 and so on. aha opera fuckers? We heard a lot of such tales, but the narrator of his chum wanted to otmazma! Something like this!
    1. Revival
      Revival 5 June 2019 09: 35
      +8
      Admin deletes your comments because they are inadequate. Did you participate in both cases?
      I think you just pravokator sracha in the comments. I think even your comments nobody deleted ...
  13. Maltus
    Maltus 5 June 2019 08: 13
    -11
    And in the first case, a boxer, a torpedo was at the first group of majors!
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. Maltus
    Maltus 5 June 2019 08: 15
    -11
    Correctly condemned both! Reasonable people carefully read both cases!
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Astra wild
    Astra wild 5 June 2019 08: 47
    +6
    We need to allow short-barrels a long time ago. Now it turns out a paradoxical situation. Crime has a lot of weapons and very different.
    Once I heard the police talk, the former police officer was closer to me, and he said:
    -We have a PM, and the bandits already have a lot of imported barrels.
    The powers that be do not feel the need for weapons, the rich also have many weapons, and ordinary citizens are unarmed. For some reason, many of us are against short-barrels.
    I have been and still remain an adherent of socialism, but it is time for us to adopt all the best that they have
    Of course, automatic rifles like in America do not need 100%, but small IL-type pistols are long overdue.
    Some will start proving to me that if I allow Glock or FZ at once, but this will be a matter of fact and I don’t have the budget, but simple IL-type pistols are more accessible. And if more design earns
    1. Igoresha
      Igoresha 5 June 2019 08: 58
      -3
      yes, of course, it's time. For myself, I'm sure, but for everyone else ... today it's normal and tomorrow the roof will go a, la roslyakov or drunk
      1. Revival
        Revival 5 June 2019 09: 38
        +1
        Well, you can be killed from a tank too, so a soldier was entrusted with a tank, and once he went off the roof, you couldn't
      2. meandr51
        meandr51 9 June 2019 18: 42
        +2
        Any car is much more dangerous than a pistol. He is on the move for hours and can kill dozens of people every minute. Not scary? I'm scared. This is a real danger. And the gun is just nonsense. There is nothing more dangerous than a piece of fittings or a kitchen knife. Inflated from the molehills ...
    2. Disorder
      Disorder 5 June 2019 09: 37
      +3
      Quote: Astra wild
      We need to allow short-barrels a long time ago. Now it turns out a paradoxical situation. Crime has a lot of weapons and very different.

      And people will go in packs for self-defense, and in the crime will only increase the flow of weapons.
      The procedure must be established in law enforcement and judicial bodies, and not to arm the people.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 5 June 2019 11: 06
        +3
        Quote: Trouble
        and in the crime will only increase the flow of weapons.

        but do they not have it?
        Quote: Trouble
        The procedure must be established in law enforcement and judicial bodies.

        who will do it? The cops themselves? In Zucker Beam, they had been fighting with prisoners for several years, and this was during the media press. And if the story is not published in the media, then they will not fight
        1. Disorder
          Disorder 5 June 2019 20: 56
          0
          Quote: Silvestr
          but do they not have it?

          It will be even more. So many free barrels they appear.
      2. Lena363
        Lena363 9 June 2019 15: 56
        +1
        Crime has never had a problem with a weapon.
      3. meandr51
        meandr51 9 June 2019 18: 45
        +1
        One does not interfere with the other, but helps. In the USSR, the people had much more rights to detain and neutralize criminals. There were warriors. Army officers went with pistols and did not hesitate to use them, if that. There was much less crime than now.
    3. Captain45
      Captain45 5 June 2019 20: 48
      0
      Quote: Astra wild
      Once I heard the police talk, the former police officer was closer to me, and he said:
      -We have a PM, and the bandits already have a lot of imported barrels.

      Have you invented it or read it in bikes from the Internet? I worked for 20+ years, having as a service PM and I didn't care which barrel the bandit would have, ours or imported, because I knew exactly when, and most importantly, I knew how to apply PM in the right case. Incl. barrel brand is not an indicator. As they say in the Caucasus - "If the heart is made of iron, then a wooden dagger is good."
    4. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 6 June 2019 09: 22
      +1
      Of course it is necessary to allow, but ... not "allow all" or "forbid all", but allow only those who can be allowed and with full responsibility of the authorizing for his decision.

      If you sell a weapon under a self-defense license, then why are there any restrictions about that - you can, you can't?
      Let people with a license decide what suits them best. They got a license, and let them decide what to buy.
      1. meandr51
        meandr51 9 June 2019 18: 48
        +1
        And in my opinion, it is necessary to do, as in the Russian Empire: to sell to everyone, including criminals and lunatics. For a long time they will not linger on the surface of the Earth. Normal people are 100 times more. When parsing, take into account the reputation of the parties to the conflict. The order will be restored automatically.
        1. Horse, people and soul
          Horse, people and soul 9 June 2019 19: 32
          0
          In addition to the parties to the conflict, there are completely strangers and pregnant women with prams, grandparents, people with disabilities, just passers-by who can easily suffer or lose their lives from such a Wild West.

          Leave the Wild West for spaghetti westerns.
    5. Tank hard
      Tank hard 6 June 2019 20: 51
      -3
      Quote: Astra wild
      We need to allow short-barrels a long time ago.

      Sense then from you with trunks? Without a reasonable law on self-defense and special training. Here is a video for reasonable, please note that you still need to unlock and send a cartridge, and this is also the time. Watch until the end:
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 7 June 2019 14: 04
        +1
        Here's how to shoot the El President exercise.

        Three targets, two bullets in each, reloading and two more bullets in each.



      2. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 7 June 2019 14: 16
        +1
        In the correct holster must be worn. In such or in a breast bag-holster in an instant opening twitching for a sling.

        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard 7 June 2019 15: 13
          -2
          Here's how to shoot the El President exercise.

          Three targets, two bullets in each, reloading and two more bullets in each.

          Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
          In the correct holster must be worn. In such or in a breast bag-holster in an instant opening twitching for a sling.

          Dear representative of the Baltic state hi I believe that you are a trained shooter and can do a lot. but apparently you still (as last time) didn’t watch the video attentively, or refuse to understand what I wanted to say with this movie request . The movie is for those who naively think that possession of weapons in general, and a pistol in particular, is a panacea for all ills, and that by acquiring weapons they are protected from all sorts of attacks. fool In all need skill, hardening. training. and the most important weapon - a head on your shoulders! Do not confuse Estonia (for example) and Russia, their legislation and law enforcement, as well as different mentality, but it is still different (mentality). And yet, even if you (I admit that a prepared person) is armed with a pistol, but a pistol in a holster, etc., will meet me (for example) with a knife, and a conflict will occur (fantasy on the subject), not the fact that you are lucky, because that i prepared too. repeat
          I repeat, the video is for those who mistakenly think that His possession of a weapon automatically protects Him from .. "different". hi
          1. meandr51
            meandr51 9 June 2019 18: 59
            +1
            Typical distortion of statements. Who and when claimed that the gun is a panacea for anything? If only from a headache ... People demand that they be allowed to defend themselves legally. Are you against
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 9 June 2019 20: 32
              -1
              Quote: meandr51
              Are you against?

              No, not against it. Moreover, I am for weapons in every home. I am against dangerous illusions ... If you, of course, understand what I mean. wink
            2. Tank hard
              Tank hard 9 June 2019 20: 35
              -2
              Quote: meandr51
              Typical distortion of utterances

              Who are you talking about? If you carefully watched the video and read what I wrote, you would not have written it. The head - it is not only for what would be in it. wink
      3. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 9 June 2019 20: 43
        +1
        So the Glock has been invented for a long time? belay
    6. vindigo
      vindigo 8 June 2019 10: 50
      +2
      In my opinion revolvers for self-defense is the thing. A small ammunition so that the police did not swear. And in the event of a misfire, you can quickly repeat the shot compared to a conventional pistol.
  18. Ravik
    Ravik 5 June 2019 09: 28
    +1
    Quote: populist
    Now, from time to time I receive instructions from my spouse “not to interfere in anything and not to approach law enforcement officials”.

    Is logical Immediately I recall the names - Rokotov, Faibishenko, Yakovlev, Sokolov.
  19. Cruel beaver
    Cruel beaver 5 June 2019 09: 32
    +2
    Oh, these fairy tales .... About the "good" king, etc. .....
  20. frog
    frog 5 June 2019 09: 43
    +13
    My compliments to the author! Cases ...... are curious, but it cannot be said that they are very egregious. And the common thing in both cases (as well as many similar ones) is that the people of the system are harnessed for potential inmates, sorry. Who then paid for it. And which will not be in the system. Even without considering the question of whether it really was in both cases)))) I would risk making a mistake, but 90 percent of those who used force in accordance with the law and who had suffered as a result are sitting. Considering that in three quarters of the cases there is everything - witnesses, compliance with the rules, the legality of the weapon (if any). And they still sit. And as long as we have in the treasury a kind of feudal get-together, at all levels, so it will be. And with all the love for iron and a long enough communication with it, this will not solve anything. From the word at all. Since neither Kalashnikov nor Colt are to blame for anything, the people who used the iron inappropriately are to blame. And it is much easier for the system to pack up the simpler one. And it's always easier for someone who is "not in the subject." And the overwhelming majority of people from the "law-burial" structures do not care deeply about the law, and about the protection of someone's rights there, and everything else. Among this public there were always not very many people who wanted to "sort out the matter." And even fewer are able to do it. Now their number has decreased by an order of magnitude ... As actually everywhere ... The number of professionals is rapidly decreasing, in all spheres of human activity without exception. And not only here.
  21. Revival
    Revival 5 June 2019 09: 53
    +8
    We have a person, a simple person must endure, because it is useless for him to do something, he must understand that only the "top" has the right, and he himself is nobody. In which case, call the police, did not have time, did not arrive at all, you will endure nothing terrible ...
    And then you decide in one place, so they say in other cases he will decide to decide ..
    And how to manage this?
    Such a person, the people of the "top" are inconvenient ...
    According to the logic of the opponents of the permission of the "short-barreled": There, in the former socialist camp where the "short-barrels" have already been allowed, there are no more people left, they all shot each other, and they shamelessly lie to us that they are migrating to Europe. They hide the truth so as not to injure the psyche)))
  22. Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 5 June 2019 10: 43
    +5
    Strange logic of those who are against short-handed. This means that in the army, weapons can be entrusted to "citizens", but in civilians - "they will kill each other."
    Simple unwillingness of the organs to work. Watch the videos on YouTube, for any appeal from "citizens": the answer is "super": we are working - you distract us, just like in stores during the perestroika period: customers do not distract saleswomen from work.
    1. frog
      frog 5 June 2019 10: 46
      +2
      In the army, the overwhelming majority of the time the "hardware" is in the gun, where the zholnezh just won't go. As well as plumping with the whole company and then jumping with trunks - not in a special factory. At least in the PPD. And no one is trying to ennoble the bones, but be curious about the criminal statistics of those states ... Where it is, as it were, allowed ...
      1. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 5 June 2019 15: 39
        +3
        Quote: frog
        However, be curious about the criminal statistics of those states ..... Where it is, as it were, allowed ....

        And the statistics is extremely simple. The most criminal - New York, California, Colombia, are among the most unarmed. But all sorts of nebraska yes arizona, where heels of shotguns in a pickup truck is not at all uncommon, and people with short-barrels are more than unarmed, these are the most peaceful states. By the way, in the city of Kennesaw, in which residents are obliged to have weapons, the crime rate in 2-3 is times lower than that of its neighbors. But in general, in the US armed kill less than ours, if per capita count.
        1. frog
          frog 5 June 2019 16: 07
          -1
          We are not talking about murders, but about crimes with a short-barrel .... You can kill with a newspaper. Well, in the states .... Idaho - about one and a half Lemana, and California - approximately 38 .....
          As for the town ..... So there is a population of about 30 thousand .... With the same success you can compare the crime in N.Novgorod and Gorodets, for example.
          1. Lannan Shi
            Lannan Shi 5 June 2019 19: 25
            +2
            Quote: frog
            We are not talking about murders, but about crimes with a short-circuit ....

            If they kill you from a shortbridge, they will almost certainly die easier than when they kick you in their feet. Only here, with a legal short-stab, you will have a chance to fight back, and now you are alive only until what kind of gopnik team decided to play football, defining you for the role of a ball.
            1. frog
              frog 5 June 2019 21: 05
              +2
              How can I tell you .... I'm not quite alive for that reason, and I talked and talk with Gopnik’s companions; now, it’s true, it’s smaller. But based on the law enforcement practice of the beloved fatherland, for this short-haul, right-wing funerals will roll up on 5 at least for years. No matter how lawfully you applied it. You can not believe, God forbid, just check ....
              1. Lannan Shi
                Lannan Shi 5 June 2019 21: 39
                +6
                Quote: frog
                But based on the law enforcement practice of the beloved fatherland

                You started with the fact that the pier in the United States is not such a criminal statistician, now you are talking about our law enforcement practice. I do not observe the relationship.
                And the logic is simple. The offender is obviously stronger than the victim. A shortbridge, if not equalizing power, then at least gives a chance. If the state does not want to fight crime, then the person should have the right to self-defense. A state that does not want to fight crime and does not allow itself to defend itself is a criminal state. Dixi.
                1. frog
                  frog 5 June 2019 21: 49
                  -2
                  Do not pzhalsta, wishful thinking of issuing ....
                  To compare the inhabited objects with the difference of the population is an order of magnitude slightly ..... not toyvo. IMHO, naturally. In addition, the difference in the laws (actually implemented) of our countries is that in relation to self-defense, that in relation to weapons is such that it is easier to compare the chances of MC-1 against Merkava.
                  Since I live, like the others, not in a non-Console vacuum, but in a particular country, I know perfectly well what will happen if not a person of the system applies a weapon ..... Alas .....
                  And therefore, not to mention other nuances, all this, sorry, ..... morphing into "legal short-handed", which should solve the problem of non-working public institutions, in particular, the police - sorry, nothing. If you hurt something - I'm sorry, I didn't want to. But I admired the work of the system and I know perfectly well how it will all end. Alas ....
    2. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 5 June 2019 11: 35
      +2
      A man in the civilian and a man in the army is not the same. If you served, then you understand me.
      Regarding "you distract us" - there is such, alas, but there is also a real thing when they interfere with work, then when silence is needed, they create a stir, and vice versa.
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 5 June 2019 12: 57
        +3
        A man in the civilian and a man in the army is not the same. If you served, then you understand me

        This is the problem; for some reason, this is not the case in Switzerland or Israel.
        And on the second question, we all understand that we are talking about the absence of an elementary management system in its modern understanding, the archaization of all processes, endless reforms, the absence of goals, and not the solution of short-term tasks. But this, so to speak, concerns not only organs, the problem of the whole state. apparatus, and in plan, the same parsley in the whole world ..
        1. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 5 June 2019 13: 13
          +2
          Regarding the example of Switzerland and Israel that you cited .. probably a broken phrase, but nevertheless, there is an absolutely different mentality of citizens and a culture of ownership, storage and generally related to weapons, well, that's it .. and there's no way to go ... if you compare the behavior Drivers on the roads in our country and in other countries .. for the time being like this .. God bless something will change with time
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            Edward Vashchenko 5 June 2019 13: 45
            +1
            I completely agree with you, and I say that this is a "problem". But the situation cannot be corrected without a systematic approach. Your example about an accident and the situation on the roads in general characterizes the situation in the best possible way, if I am not mistaken, we have 16 types of behavior on the road, in Japan - one. But systematic work, which is categorically absent, can remove a number of cardinal problems, of course, without changing our mentality))) without it we are not we: when a cruel enemy with war comes ...
  23. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 5 June 2019 10: 45
    +12
    Remember the loud case when 4 or 5 armed armed rushed into the house of the farmer in my opinion !!!! robber, and the owner being a man of a timid dozen and put them all down ... if not for the wide publicity in the federal media, the poor fellow would have rolled up the TV and the Internet, and nothing at all.
    What conclusion can be made, and it is simple, any closed system is most afraid of 1. Publications, and the wider and higher it is, the worse it is. 2.The system does not like itself as part of a non-systemic organism and takes a step back, sort of giving way, in the end, by any squeezes this man out in ways, which we see in the examples given.
    And of course, God forbid, get under the skating rink system, the chances of getting out with minimal losses are small enough .... it went through .... I know ...
    As for self-defense, its limits and excess ... until it is clear, as clear as two words in the law, 100% does not allow for other interpretations and does not give the slightest deviation from it, depending on the judge, it will be easier .. it is already possible to take a second step aimed at resolving the short-barrel and so on ... for now there is no such thing .. there will be a swan, a crayfish and a pike.
    PS
    And until the dependence of prizes and titles on the number of "sticks" is not really canceled in words, but in deeds, there will be no sense.
  24. free
    free 5 June 2019 11: 02
    +1
    To be honest, it seems like a beautiful invention.
    But with the fact that in our kingdom-state, the salvation of a drowning man completely agrees with the work of the drowning man.
    This is genocide.
  25. Schekn Irtch
    Schekn Irtch 5 June 2019 11: 24
    +3
    Professional deformation - this is normal (I am about prosecutors, judges, etc.) and one cannot get away from it. We are for them MATERIAL, a means to achieve goals, or keep achieved. This is not a fix. Giving people the opportunity to administer justice themselves (in its original sense) will not give power, this is a constant. If you have not noticed, society is driven along the path to absolute submission and obsession. Concentration of his interests on issues of survival, and as a result of severe restriction of horizons and the desire to think. This is not a criticism of the authorities - it is an attempt to comprehend its actions, m. on this historical period as necessary.
  26. AleBors
    AleBors 5 June 2019 12: 53
    +2
    The cases described by the author are more like science fiction. So that the young prosecutor from the career of seemed? And the judge popper against the parent? I do not believe (C)
    1. av58
      av58 5 June 2019 14: 19
      +4
      Why not? Several years ago, several judges left the Moscow City Court, who refused to work in the system of previously issued convictions supported by the pre-trial court Yegorova. Naive idealists come across among prosecutors. It ends only with the same thing: either the system grinds or spits out.
      1. AleBors
        AleBors 5 June 2019 15: 20
        +1
        Amazing. Perhaps then all is not lost?
    2. ghby
      ghby 5 June 2019 15: 16
      +7
      Quote: AleBors
      The cases described by the author are more like science fiction. So that the young prosecutor from the career of seemed? And the judge popper against the parent? I do not believe (C)

      It happens that at the beginning of 2000, I personally endured two rejects, in one knife in my heart, in the second three or four of the cut two were hard, the opera and the leadership wanted to cut the sticks, it didn't work out, I saw my self-defense because of what the materials were written to me and I made the decisions and agreed with the prosecutor's office.
      P.S. only those cases go to the media that go to court, and how many cases die in the form of abandoned or in the form of termination, we do not know about them and it is not interesting to cover and discuss their media.
      P.S. He didn’t work the same for a long time, doesn’t like people with his own opinion and survive from the system, hence the indecision and lack of initiative of the investigation, the prosecutor’s office, etc. since there are only comfortable.
      1. AleBors
        AleBors 5 June 2019 15: 22
        +5
        Quote: ghby
        and indecision and bezinitsiativnost investigation, prosecutors, etc. since there are only comfortable.

        Here you come across it at every step.
        Quote: ghby
        At the beginning of 2000, I personally endured two rejects, in one knife in the heart, in the second three or four cut two hard, the opera and the leadership wanted to cut the sticks, did not come out, the materials for my day were there I saw self-defense, because of which materials wrote to me and I took the decisions and agreed with the prosecutor's office.

        Shake your hand... hi
  27. av58
    av58 5 June 2019 14: 17
    +5
    I fully admit that in the form of exceptions such cases were. However, these are only exceptions, in Russia there is no justice, and there is no. There is the All-Russian organized criminal group consisting of the police, the prosecutor's office, the Investigative Committee and the courts, which operate on a cane system. A person caught in a millstone is guilty of the fact of his existence. The Criminal Procedure Code exists only for lawyers and the public, and, of course, for propaganda.
  28. Yura
    Yura 5 June 2019 15: 04
    +1
    Thanks to the author of the article, Michael, for the fact that I now know a few more good people.
  29. Rostislav
    Rostislav 5 June 2019 19: 11
    +2
    This is exactly the case when "the exception only proves the rule." Unfortunately.
  30. Cats
    Cats 6 June 2019 10: 30
    +2
    Why did the question "about the personal self-defense of citizens" arise at all? The answer is obvious - because of the high crime rate. Why is he tall? Because the socio-economic policy of the State (government) is ineffective.
    The main causes of crime:
    a) poverty / misery;
    b) the low cultural level of society;
    c) corruption;
    d) inefficiency / inaction (selectivity of action) of the law enforcement system, which protects the power and money of the haves.
    All of the above factors are an INSITABLE and COMPOSITE part of the capitalist State system of governance. Therefore, permission to a short-bar, unfortunately, will not solve the problem, the number of normal citizens affected by the actions of inadequate inadequate people who are now dragged in by injuries will increase. We will not be like in Switzerland, but will be like in the USA, alas.
    And if the question of self-defense is raised, then we must start with the adoption of the law "on the inviolability of the person and the inviolability of property." Something like this.
  31. nznz
    nznz 6 June 2019 10: 35
    +4
    judges are corrupt, even young. The tax has clung, the inspector said snchala, I came so much to tear you off in the form of a fine. The response is for what? It will be for what. I drew up on 2 Lyam, formally right, entered into an agreement with the office, without having received one document (Charter or order for the appointment of a director) .. well, that's gone. Challenged with a familiar lawyer. Advocates know the judges and what 600tys needed. They won. They won the court of 1 instance. Minimization of losses. And what's the point? Tax filed an appeal to the cassation appeal in Vladimir. Our lawyer went there. She wasn’t even given the floor, just read the decision and that’s all.
    Excellent business win-win. The funny thing is that this judge lives with us in the same staircase. Every time I see my hands itched to smack him in the face. Young. Ie the judges from the earliest nails have already decayed.
    Previously, at least the elected judges were, but now the court is all connected with the accountability will never spoil the report. Our convictions are less than one percent ..
  32. Lapunevsky
    Lapunevsky 6 June 2019 11: 08
    +1
    When the majority of the population is impoverished, street crime increases. It is like two and two.

    "The head of the Central Bank of Russia Elvira Nabiullina explained the high debt burden of Russians by their low standard of living.
    Reports about it NTV.
    She made this statement at a session on macroeconomics at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum.
    According to the TV channel, the head of the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade Maxim Oreshkin said during the discussion that a significant increase in consumer lending carries the main risks of the recession entering the Russian economy.
    “My opinion is that we can get the highest risk of recession in Russia in the coming years precisely because of the problem of the consumer lending bubble,” said Oreshkin.
    The head of the Central Bank in response to this objected that the debt load of Russians is not a bubble, but the result of their low standard of living. "
    1. shura7782
      shura7782 7 June 2019 15: 10
      -2
      When the majority of the population is impoverished, street crime increases. It is like two and two.
      It's hard not to argue. Recall the nineties. There were times when crime was rampant. Not like the present times. Why then was the COP banned? It seemed the best time to legitimize it. T.ch. Pyrone left, and the engine just hisses and emits steam.
  33. beer-youk
    beer-youk 6 June 2019 15: 41
    +4
    Quote: Pax tecum
    The main provision of the new law is the establishment of the rule “the defender is always right”.


    An example from the distant past. Night, a choked cry for help from the entrance. A friend of mine (a master of sports in heavyweight boxing) walks into the entrance and sees two cretins robbing a woman's purse. On the offer to leave for ..., one pulled out a knife, for which he received a fist in the forehead (later the examination established that on the steps he fell already dead). Everything is clear, like no other day, the woman waited for both the police and the ambulance, gave testimony ... However, at the trial, the prosecutor demanded 12 years, arguing that the murdered person did not commit any unlawful actions against his killer, in other words, did not managed to make a hole in it. My friend received a 3-year suspended sentence, for which the judge was dismissed. Mercy for murderers in our country is similar in the genetic code: the criminal is the victim, the victim is a person who does not deserve sympathy (the moderator does not pass another wording!
  34. yehat
    yehat 6 June 2019 17: 02
    0
    Quote: Rededi
    but the population is full of cars and good

    I will not tell you, only there are settlements where not crippled Lada is already very good. I saw them myself, managed to ride around. Yes, and very low prices for goods speak about the purchasing power of the population.
    And when a person appears next to someone who has a 20 car that has been operating for an average city dweller, there are few questions, everything is clear.
  35. yehat
    yehat 6 June 2019 17: 18
    0
    Quote: Lapunevsky
    When the majority of the population is impoverished, street crime increases

    you simplify
    this happens if the population considers the impoverishment unjust and they have something to compare
    There are a lot of examples where the population considered the process objective and fair and
    tried to adapt without a significant increase in crime, but the tension remained and poured out in other forms. For example, mortality, deterioration of health, domestic conflicts, neurosis, etc. If you want an example - Germany 1946 year, the USSR during the war, England.
  36. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 7 June 2019 22: 58
    +1
    Quote: meandr51
    And I tried 2 times, once in a criminal court as a victim - both times the judges were adequate and neutral. Moscow and Khimki.

    In Moscow, the judges are watched by a kind fairy, apparently in the provinces the judges do not feel a chill on the back, from the kind but gaze of the cute guys and girls from the amateur fight against corruption group.
  37. phair
    phair 9 June 2019 04: 32
    +1
    I had a patient, a good person. In the early nineties (he was 18 years old then), a friend came to him and asked in his car to transport 2 bags to the cottage. He killed his own woman, dismembered (of course, he did not say anything). The next day, he was arrested for complicity in the murder. The Artyomovsky City Court solders him for at least 5 years. The stubborn kid (he did not know anything) reached the Supreme Court, and he soldered him for 10 years. He was released on parole (although his article doesn’t provide for it, but in the zone he fell into a good team) he spent 7 years ...
  38. tochila
    tochila 13 June 2019 14: 08
    +1
    Straight almost returned faith in people !!!!!
  39. Elizaveta Eltievna Yakubova
    Elizaveta Eltievna Yakubova 20 August 2019 14: 14
    0
    Completely for such garlic, which are ready to defend their homeland at their workplace from any uncomfortable position. It’s like that. My story was simpler: they dismissed with a wolf ticket for identifying a potential maniac (as a psychologist), and ten years later, when he was already retired, he could not cover his murders in an official way (he covered the dead with terrorists) he killed (stabbed) his an accomplice from structures. Now they are silent.
    This is the filthy side of self-defense, when it covers the trivial dismantling of custom-made ones.
    At 14, she herself broke her legs for a peasant who bared a sharpener against me. It saved that it was at VDNKh, I was in a suit of the Olympic reserve and my ability to swing it with a portable riser-limiter (50 kg of weight) (especially throwing it successfully at the feet of an attacker with a full confluence of onlookers at the viewing pavilion of animal husbandry) explained the special physical. training.