Military Review

Dark spots of history: the tragedy of Russians in Polish captivity

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Dark spots of history: the tragedy of Russians in Polish captivity

In the spring of 2012, the European Court of Human Rights decided on Russia's innocence in the mass shooting of soldiers and officers of the Polish army near Katyn. The Polish side has almost completely lost the case. There are surprisingly few reports about this in the media, but a lack of accurate information about the fate of the dead should not open the way to political speculations that poison relations between the two nations. And this applies not only to the fate of thousands of Polish soldiers and officers, but also to the fate of tens of thousands of Russian compatriots who have fallen into captivity after the Polish-Soviet war 1919-1921. This article is an attempt to shed light on one of the "dark spots" of Russian, Polish and European stories.


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As a result of the war started by Poland against Soviet Russia, the Polish army captured over 150 thousand Red Army soldiers. In total, in combination with political prisoners and interned civilians, more than 200 thousands of Red Army soldiers, civilians, White Guards, anti-Bolshevik and nationalist (Ukrainian and Belarusian) militia turned out to be in Polish captivity and concentration camps.

The second Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth created a huge "archipelago" of dozens of concentration camps, stations, prisons and serf casemates. It is spread over the territory of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and Lithuania and included not only dozens of concentration camps, including the openly named in the then European press “death camps” and the so-called. internment camps (these were mainly concentration camps built by Germans and Austrians during the First World War, such as Stshalkovo, Shiptyurno, Lancut, Tuhole), but also prisons, sorting concentration stations, concentration points and various military facilities like Modlin and the Brest Fortress, where there were four concentration camps at once - the Bug-shuppe, the fort of Berg, the barracks of Graevsky and the officers ...

The islands and islands of the archipelago were located including in Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian and Lithuanian cities and towns and were called Pikulitsa, Korosten, Zhytomyr, Aleksandrov, Lukov, Ostrov-Lomzhinskiy, Rombertov, Zdunska Volya, Torun, Dorogusk, Plotsk, Radom, Przemysl, Lviv, Fridrikhovka, Zvyagel, Dombe, Demblin, Petrokov, Wadovitsa, Bialystok, Baranovichi, Molodechno, Vilna, Pinsk, Ruzhany, Bobruisk, Grodno, Luninets, Volkovyssk, Minsk, Pulawy, Powazki, Rovno, Stryi, Kovel ...

This should also include the so-called. work teams that worked in the district and in the surrounding landowners, formed from prisoners, among which at times mortality exceeded 75%. The most deadly for prisoners were concentration camps located in Poland - Strzalkovo and Tuchol.

The situation of the prisoners in the first months of the concentration camps was so terrible and disastrous that in September 1919, the Polish legislature (Sejm) created a special commission to investigate the situation in the concentration camps. The commission completed its work in the 1920 year immediately before the start of the Polish offensive on Kiev. She not only pointed out poor sanitary conditions in the camps, as well as the famine prevailing among the prisoners, but also admitted the guilt of the military authorities for the fact that "the death rate from typhoid fever was reduced to an extreme degree."

As Russian researchers note, today “the Polish side, despite the indisputable facts of inhuman treatment of Red Army prisoners in 1919-1922, does not recognize its responsibility for their death in Polish captivity and categorically rejects any accusations in this regard. Special indignation of the Poles is caused by attempts to draw parallels between the Nazi concentration camps and Polish camps for prisoners of war. However, there are grounds for such comparisons ... Documents and testimonies “allow us to conclude that the local executors were guided not by correct orders and instructions, but by verbal directives of the highest Polish leaders.”

V.Shved gives the following explanation to this: “The head of the Polish state, a former terrorist fighter Jozef Pilsudski, became famous in tsarist Russia as the organizer of the most successful actions and expropriations. He always provided maximum secrecy of his plans. The military coup that Pilsudski carried out in May 1926 of the year was a complete surprise for everyone in Poland. Pilsudski was a master of camouflage and diversion maneuvers. There is no doubt that he applied this tactic in the situation with the prisoners of the Red Army. ” “It is also possible to conclude with a high degree of confidence that the predetermination of the death of captured Red Army soldiers in the Polish camps was caused by the general anti-Russian mood of Polish society — the more the Bolsheviks die, the better. Most politicians and military leaders of Poland at that time shared these sentiments. ”

The most vividly anti-Russian sentiments that reigned in Polish society were formulated by Polish Deputy Interior Minister Jozef Beck: “As for Russia, I don’t find enough epithets to characterize the hatred that we have towards it.” The head of the then Polish state, Jozef Pilsudski, was no less colorful: “When I take Moscow, I’ll write on the Kremlin wall:“ To speak Russian is forbidden ”.”

As noted by the Deputy General Commissar of the Civil Administration of the Eastern Lands, Michal Kossakovsky, it was not considered a sin to kill or torture the “Bolshevik”, which included Soviet civilians. One example of what this poured into practice: N. Valden, a cultural worker of the Red Army captivated by the summer of 1919, later recalled how, at stops to the train, where he, stripped by Poles to “underpants and a shirt, barefoot,” was loaded and in which the prisoners of the first 7-8 days traveled “without any food”, Polish intellectuals came to mock or check their personal weapon on the prisoners, as a result of which “we missed many of our trip”.

“The horrors were going on in the Polish camps ...” Representatives of the joint Soviet-Polish commission, representatives of the Polish and Russian Red Cross, and the French military mission in Poland, and the émigré press [Svoboda ”B. Savinkov, Paris“ Common Cause ”agreed on this opinion. ”, Berlin’s“ Rudder ”...), and international organizations (among them the American Union of Christian Youth under the direction of the prisoner of war secretary D.O. Wilson (USMCA), American Relief Administration (ARA)].

In fact, the stay of the Red Army soldiers in Polish captivity was not regulated by any legal norms, since the government of J. Pilsudski refused to sign agreements prepared by the delegations of the Red Cross societies of Poland and Russia at the beginning of 1920. Moreover, the “political-psychological atmosphere in Poland did not contribute to the observance of the generally accepted humane attitude towards ex-combatants”. This is eloquently stated in the documents of the Mixed (Russian, Ukrainian and Polish delegations) commission on the repatriation of prisoners.

For example, the real position of the supreme Polish authorities in relation to the “Bolshevik prisoners” is set forth in the minutes of the 11 meeting of the commission from July 28 of 1921. It states: "When the camp command considers it possible ... to provide more human conditions for the existence of prisoners of war, prohibitions come from the center." In the same protocol, a general assessment was made of the situation in which the captured Red Army men were in Polish camps. The Polish side was forced to agree with this assessment: “The ORE (Russian-Ukrainian delegation) could never allow prisoners to be treated so inhumanly and with such cruelty ... it is not uncommon that the Red Army men are in the camp literally without any clothes and shoes or even there is no underwear ... OUR delegation does not recall the continuous nightmare and horror of beatings, injuries and continuous physical extermination, which was carried out to Russian prisoners of war of the Red Army, especially the Communists, in the first days and months of captivity tions. "

The fact that nothing has changed even after a year and a half follows from the report of the Chairman of the Russian-Ukrainian delegation of the Mixed Soviet-Polish Commission for Prisoners of War, Refugees and Hostages E.Eboltin, prepared in February 1923: “Maybe due to historical hatred of the Poles for Russians or for other economic and political reasons, prisoners of war in Poland were not considered as unarmed enemy soldiers, but as disfranchised slaves ... Food was provided unfit for consumption and below any subsistence minimum. When a prisoner of war was taken prisoner, all uniforms were removed, and prisoners of war remained very often in the same underwear in which they lived behind the camp wire ... the Poles treated them not as people of equal race, but as slaves. The beatings of prisoners of war were practiced at every turn. ” Here there is a mention of bringing these unfortunates to work degrading human dignity: people were harnessed instead of horses into carts, plows, harrows, cesspool carts.

From the A.Ioffe telegram to Comrade Chicherin, Polburo, Centroevak from 14 December 1920 Riga: “The position of prisoners in the Strzhalkovo camp is especially hard. Mortality among prisoners of war is so great that if it does not decrease, they will all die out within six months. In the same mode as the Communists, they keep all the captured Jews of the Red Army, keeping them in separate barracks. Their regime is deteriorating due to anti-Semitism cultivated in Poland. Ioffe.

“The death rate of prisoners under the above conditions was terrible,” the report of the Russian-Ukrainian delegation noted. “How many of our prisoners of war died in Poland cannot be established, since the Poles did not keep any records of those who died in the year 1920, and the biggest death rate in the camps was in the autumn of the year 1920.”

According to the order of counting prisoners of war adopted in the Polish army in 1920, not only those who were actually taken to the camps were taken prisoners, but also those who were left wounded without help on the battlefield or shot on the spot. Therefore, many of the "disappeared" tens of thousands of Red Army soldiers were killed long before being detained in concentration camps. In general, the prisoners were destroyed in two main ways: 1) with executions and massacres and 2) with the creation of intolerable conditions.

Mass killings and executions

Polish historians significantly underestimate the number of Soviet prisoners of war and most often do not take into account that not all of them fell into the camps. Many died before. The reasonableness of this assumption of Russian historians is consistent with Polish documentary evidence. Thus, in one of the Polish military command telegrams from 3 December 1919, it is said: “According to available data, the fronts do not adhere to the procedure for transporting, registering and sending prisoners of war to the camp ... Prisoners are often not sent to assembly points, but directly after taking captivity is detained at the fronts and used at work, because of this, accurate accounting of prisoners of war is impossible. Due to the poor state of clothing and food ... epidemic diseases spread in a frightening way among them, bringing a huge percentage of mortality due to the general depletion of the body. ”

Modern Polish authors, speaking of the enormous mortality among prisoners who were sent to concentration camps, themselves note that “Polish journalists and most historians point out, first of all, the lack of money. The resurgent Speech of the Commonwealth could barely put on and feed its own soldiers. The prisoners were not enough, because it could not be enough. However, not everything can be explained by lack of funds. The problems of the captives of that war did not begin behind the barbed wire of the camps, but on the first line when they threw weapons. ”

Russian scientists and researchers believe that even before being sent to concentration camps, only during the period of capture and transportation of captured Red Army soldiers from the front, a significant part of them (about 40%) died. A very eloquent testimony to this is, for example, the report of the command of the 14 th Wielkopolska Infantry Division to the command of the 4 th army from October 12 1920, in which, in particular, it was reported that “during the fighting from Brest-Litovsk to Baranovichi, a total of 5000 was taken about 40% of the named amount of wounded and killed Bolsheviks was captured and left on the battlefield

20 December 1919, at a meeting of the Polish High Command, Major Yakushevich, an employee of the Volyn Voucher (commanding of the landmark district), reported: “Prisoners of war arriving in the Galician front look exhausted, hungry and sick. Only in one train sent from Ternopil and counting 700 prisoners of war only 400 arrived. ” The death rate of prisoners of war in this case was about 43%.

“Perhaps the most tragic fate is among the new arrivals, who are brought in unheated cars without appropriate clothes, caught cold, hungry and tired, often with the first symptoms of illnesses that lie insanely with apathy on bare boards,” described Natalia Belezhinska from the Polish Red Cross. “Therefore, many of them after such a trip end up in the hospital, and the weaker die.” Mortality of prisoners, recorded at the marshalling yards and shipments, was very high. For example, in Bobruisk in December 1919 - January 1920 933 prisoners died, in Brest-Litovsk from 18 to 28 November 1920 - 75 prisoners, in Pulawy in less than a month, from November 10 to 2 December 1920, - 247 prisoners ...

8 December 1920, Minister of Military Affairs Kazimierz Sosnkovsky even appointed an investigation regarding the transportation of hungry and sick prisoners of war. The direct reason for this was information about the transport of 200 prisoners from Kovel to a kind of “vestibule” before entering the camps - a concentration point for filtering prisoners of war in Puławy. On the 37 train, the prisoners died, the sick arrived. “They were on the way for 137 days and during all this time they were not allowed to eat. As soon as they were unloaded in Pulavy, the prisoners immediately attacked the horse’s corpse and ate raw carrion. ” General Godlevsky, in a letter to Sosnkovsky, indicates that he counted 5 people on that day on the day of departure, which means that 700 people died on the way. “Most of them are so hungry that they could not get out of the cars on their own. On the very first day in Pulawy, 473 people died. ”

From the diary of the Red Army soldier Mikhail Ilyichev (taken prisoner on the territory of Belarus, he was a prisoner of the Strzalkovo concentration camp): “... in the autumn of 1920, we were taken in cars half filled with coal. The tightness was hellish, before reaching the landing station, six people died. Then for a day we were marinated in some kind of swamp - this is so that we could not lie down on the ground and sleep. Then drove under escort to the place. One wounded man could not walk; we took turns dragging him in turn, thus knocking down a column. Convoys this tired, and they beat him with rifle butts. It became clear - for a long time we would not stretch that way, and when we saw the rotten barracks and ours, who were wandering behind a thorn in what the mother gave birth, the reality of a speedy death became obvious. ”



Mass executions of Russian prisoners 1919-1920 - This is not propaganda fabrication, as some Polish media are trying to present the case. One of the first evidence we know belongs to Tadeusz Kossak, a fighter formed by the Austrians of the Polish Corps during the First World War and described in his memoirs published in 1927 (“Jak to bylo w armii austriackiej”), as in 1919 in Volyn, the streets of the 1 regiment were shot 18 Red Army.

Polish researcher A. Velieveysky wrote about orders of General Sikorsky (the future prime minister of the second Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) to shoot Russian prisoners of war with 23 machine guns and not Russian soldiers into the prisoner of 1994, which is a popular newspaper in Poland, the newspaper “Picks out” from 300 in February. There is information about other similar cases. Including the evidence of systematic reprisals of Poles with prisoners on the front lines of the aforementioned K. Svitsalsky, one of the closest officers of Pilsudski. Polish historian Marcin Handelsman, a volunteer in 1920, also recalled that "our commissars were not taken alive at all." This is confirmed by the participant of the Warsaw battle, Stanislav Kavchak, who is in the book “The Silent Echo. Memories of the 1914-1920 War. ”Describes how the commander of the 18 Infantry Regiment hung all the commissars taken prisoner. According to the testimony of the Red Army soldier A. Chestnov, who was taken prisoner in May 1920, after the arrival of their group of prisoners in Sedliec, all "... party comrades among 33 people were singled out and shot right there"

According to the testimony of VVValuev, a Red Army man who escaped from captivity, who was captured on 18 in August near Novominsk: “Of the entire composition (about 1000 was captivated a man - approx.),” He showed during the interrogation in Kovno, “they chose communists, officers, commissars and Jews, and right there in front of all the Red Army soldiers, one Jewish commissar was beaten and then shot. ” He further testified that everyone was taken away their uniforms, and who did not immediately execute orders, the Polish legionaries were beaten to death. All those who were taken prisoner were sent to the Tuchol concentration camp of the Pomeranian province, where there were already many wounded who had not been tied up for weeks, as a result of which they had worms in their wounds. Many of the wounded died, every day they were buried by 30-35 people.

In addition to the recollections of eyewitnesses and participants, there are at least two official reports about the execution of prisoners of Red Army. The first is contained in Summary III (Operational) Division of the High Command of the Polish Army (VP) of 5 in March 1919. The second is in the operational summary of the command of the 5 Army of the Interim Government signed by the Chief of Staff of the 5 Army Lieutenant Colonel R. Volikovsky, who says that 24 August 1920 west of the Dzyadlov-Mlawa-Tsekhanov line fell into Polish captivity around Soviet Cossacks 400 3 Guy's cavalry corps. In retaliation "for 92 soldiers and 7 officers who were brutally murdered by the Soviet cavalry corps 3", the soldiers of the 49 Infantry Regiment of the 5 Polish Army shot prisoner Cossacks with 200 guns. This fact was not noted in the reports of Division III of the Supreme Command of the Interim Government.

As the Red Army men who returned from Polish captivity, V.A. Bakmanov and PT Karamnokov, the selection of prisoners to be shot near Mlawoy was carried out by a Polish officer “by persons”, “representative and cleaner dressed, and more cavalrymen”. The number of people to be shot was determined by a French officer (pastor) who was present among the Poles, who said that an 200 man would be enough.

Polish operational reports contain several direct and indirect reports about the shooting of the Red Army soldiers in captivity. An example is the live summary from 22 June 1920 of the year. Another example is a summary from 5 in March 1919 from the grouping gene. A. Listovsky, in which it was reported: “... a detachment under the command of the pores. Yesman, supported by the Wetzek mobile unit, occupied the village of Brodnica, where 25 Red Army prisoners were captured, including several Poles. Some of them were shot. ” The existing practice of dealing with prisoners of war is evidenced by the report of the Polish North-Eastern Front from 7 August 1920 from the Polissya grouping: “During the night, units from the [Soviet] 8 and 17 infantry divisions came over to our side. Several mouths went in full with officers. Among the reasons for surrender, officers call excessive fatigue, apathy and food shortages, as well as the proven fact that the 32 infantry regiment does not shoot prisoners. ” It is quite obvious, says GF Matveev, that “the execution of prisoners could hardly be considered something exceptional if the information about them fell into documents intended for the high command. In the reports there are reports of Polish punitive expeditions against insurgents in Volhynia and in Belarus, accompanied by executions, arsons of individual houses and entire villages. ”

It should be said that the fate of many prisoners, who for one reason or another did not want to "mess around" the Poles, was unenviable. The fact is that at the final stage of the war, the destruction of the Red Army soldiers who were in the Polish rear was widespread. True, there is not much evidence at our disposal, but they are very weighty. How can the meaning of the appeal of the head of the Polish state and supreme commander Y. Pilsudski "Toward the Polish people", dated approximately August 24 1920 of the year, i.e. a time when the red pieces crushed near Warsaw were rapidly retreating to the east. Its text was not included in the Marshal’s collected works, but is reproduced in full in the work of the Catholic priest, M.M., devoted to the 1920 war. Grzybowski. In particular, it stated:

"The defeated and cut off Bolshevik gangs still wander and hide in the forests, robbing and plundering the property of the inhabitants.

Polish people! Stand shoulder to shoulder to fight the fleeing enemy. Let no aggressor leave the Polish land! For those who died while defending the Fatherland and brothers' homeland, let your punishing fists, armed with pitchforks, braids and flails, fall upon the shoulders of the Bolsheviks. Captured alive give into the hands of the nearest military or civilian authorities.

Let the retreating enemy not have a minute of rest, let death and bondage await him on all sides! Polish people! To arms! "

Pilsudski’s address was extremely ambiguous, its content could also be interpreted as a direct call for the extermination of Red Army soldiers who were in the Polish rear, although this is not directly mentioned. Pilsudski’s appeal had the most serious consequences for the “generously” wounded Red Army soldiers abandoned on the battlefield. Evidence of this can be a hotline following the Warsaw battle in the Polish military magazine Bellona, ​​containing information about the losses of the Red Army. In particular, it says: “The losses of prisoners to 75 thousand, the losses of those killed on the battlefield, killed by our peasants and the wounded are very large” (In this context, it is appropriate to recall that according to the calculations of the head of the Defense Ministry’s department to perpetuate the memory A.V. Kirilin who died during the defense of the Fatherland, "approximately 216 thousand were captured, of which a little more than 160 thousand were sent to the camps. That is, before the Red Army soldiers got into the camps, they were killed on the way").

From the testimony of Ilya Tumarkin, who returned from Polish captivity: “First of all: when we were captured, the cutting of the Jews began and got rid of death by some strange coincidence. The next day we were driven on foot to Lublin, and this transition was for us a real Golgotha. The ferocity of the peasants was so great that the little boys threw stones at us. Accompanied by curses, abuse, we arrived in the city of Lublin on a feeding point, and here the most shameless beating of Jews and Chinese began ... 24 / V-21g. "

According to the testimony of the deputy. Commissioner-General of the Civil Administration of the Eastern Lands of Michal Kossakovsky, it was not considered a sin to kill or torture a captive Bolshevik. He recalls that "... in the presence of General Listovsky (the commander of the task force in Polesie) shot the boy just because he allegedly smiled unkindly." In the concentration camps themselves, the prisoners could also be shot for nothing. Thus, the captured Red Army soldier M. Sherstnev in the Belostok camp was killed on 12 in September of 1920, only for having dared to object to the lieutenant Kalchinsky in a conversation on the officers' kitchen, who on this basis ordered him to be shot.

There is also evidence of the use of prisoners as living targets. Major General V.I. Filatov - at the beginning of 1990's The editor of the Military History Magazine, one of the first to raise the topic of the mass death of Red Army soldiers in Polish concentration camps, writes that a favorite occupation of some Polish cavalrymen (“the best in Europe”) was to place Red Army prisoners throughout the huge cavalry parade and learn from them how to “collapse to the waist” from all over the “heroic” shoulder, at the full gallop of a person. Brave lords cut the captives "on the fly, with a turn." There were many placings for "training" in the cavalry felling. Just like the death camps. In Pulava, Domba, Strzalkowo, Tucholi, Baranovichi ... The garrisons of brave cavalrymen stood in every small town and had thousands of prisoners "at hand". For example, only the Lithuanian-Belarusian division of the Polish army left 1153 prisoners at its disposal in Bobruisk.

According to I.V. Mikhutina, “all these unknown victims of arbitrariness, beyond even approximate calculation, expand the scale of the tragedy of Soviet prisoners of war in Polish captivity and show how incomplete they reflect his known data.”

Some Polish and Russian-speaking authors claim that the brutality of the Poles in the 1919-1920 war was caused by the brutality of the Red Army. At the same time, they refer to scenes of violence against prisoners of Poles, described in the diary of I. Babel, which served as the basis for the novel “Conarmia” and represent Poland as the victim of aggressive Bolsheviks. Yes, the Bolsheviks knew that the nearest way to exporting the revolution to Europe was through Poland, which was important in the plans of the "world revolution". However, the Polish leadership also dreamed of restoring the second Speech to the Commonwealth within the boundaries of 1772, that is, passing just west of Smolensk. However, in both 1919 and 1920, the aggressor was Poland, which, after independence, was the first to move its troops eastward. This is a historical fact.

In connection with the widespread opinion in Polish scientific literature and journalism about the brutality of the Red Army in the occupied Polish territory in the summer of 1920, Mr. G.F. Matveev gives evidence of the competent Polish military institution - 6 of the 2nd section (military intelligence and counterintelligence) of the Warsaw Military Headquarters County from September 19 1920. In the so-called "invasive report" she described the behavior of the Red Army: "The behavior of the Soviet troops throughout the occupation was impeccable, it was proved that until the time of retreat they did not allow any unnecessary robbery and violence. They tried to carry out requisition formally and pay the required prices in money , although depreciated. The impeccable behavior of the Soviet troops in comparison with the violence and unnecessary robbery of our retreating units significantly undermined the trust in the Polish authorities "(CAW. SRI DOK II371.1 / A; Z doswiadczen ostatnich t ygodni. - Bellona, ​​1920, No. 7, s. 484).

Creating intolerable conditions

In the works of Polish authors, as a rule, the fact of the very high mortality of Soviet soldiers in captivity is denied or hushed up due to unbearable conditions of existence. However, not only survivors' memories remained, but also diplomatic notes of the Russian side (for example, a note from January 6 1921) with protests against the cruel treatment of prisoners, which detail the monstrous facts of the Red Army camp life.

Bullying and beatings. Polish concentration camps systematically practiced beatings, harassment, and cruel punishment of prisoners. As a result, “the inhuman conditions of captivity had the most terrible consequences and led to their rapid extinction. In the camp of Dереbie, cases of the beating of prisoners by officers of the Polish army were recorded ... In the camp of Tucholi, the commissar of the 12 regiment Kuzmin was beaten. In the Bobruisk Prison, a prisoner of war was slaughtered by the fact that he did not obey orders to clean up the sewage with his bare hands. Instructor Myshkina, taken prisoner near Warsaw, was raped by two officers and thrown into jail on Dzelitnaya Street in Warsaw without any clothes. The actress of the Red Army field theater, Topolnitskaya, also captured near Warsaw, was beaten during interrogation with a rubber band, hung by her feet from the ceiling, and then sent to a camp in Dбеbie. These and similar incidents of bullying Russian prisoners of war became known to the Polish press and provoked certain voices of protest and even parliamentary requests.

Paragraph 20 instructions of the Ministry of Military Affairs of Poland for the camps of 21 June 1920, the punishment of prisoners by flogging was strictly prohibited. At the same time, as evidenced by the documents, the punishment with rods "became a system in most Polish camps for prisoners of war and interned during the whole period of their existence." N.S. Raysky notes that in Zlochev, the Red Army men also "were beaten with wire whips made of iron wire from electrical wires." Cases have been recorded in which prisoners were pinned to death with rods and barbed wire whips. And even the then press openly wrote about such facts.

In some Polish camps, Russian prisoners were used as traction force, instead of horses, in logging, arable land, and road works. In the Strshalkovo camp, “prisoners of war are forced to carry their own stool instead of horses on themselves. They carry both plows and harrows. ”

As the Plenipotentiary of the RSFSR in Poland wrote 6 on January 1922, “those arrested are daily expelled to the streets and instead of walking exhausted people under the command to run, ordering them to fall into the mud and rise again. If the prisoners refuse to go to the mud or if someone of them, having executed the order, cannot rise, exhausted by the harsh conditions of their maintenance, then they are beaten with rifle butts ”.

“Disciplinary sanctions applied to prisoners of war are marked by barbarous cruelty. The room for those arrested in the same camp is a 2 cubicle of a coffer house, similar in nature to the cattle shed. In this punishment cell, 10 to 17 are planted ... In addition to these cruel punishments, cane and fist reprisals against prisoners of war flourish in the camps ... The attempts of our delegation to soften the regime in the camps, citing the Polish delegation’s sabotage "(from the certificate the plenipotentiary of the RSFSR in Warsaw on August 10 1922).

In fairness, it’s worth pointing out that in the same way the Poles dealt not only with Soviet prisoners, but also with the Poles - the Communists, of whom several thousand also died in the same camps.

On the basis of complaints and statements as a result of collected information from camps and prisons, the chairman of the ORE department E.N. Ignatov informed 20 of June 1921 of the year to Moscow (head of the Department of the NKID, Yakubovich and Tsentroevak Pilyavsky) that “the situation of prisoners of war in the camps did not improve much, some even deteriorated in terms of the regime, and the beatings have not stopped until now. High and commanding personnel now rarely resort to assault, but the guards still beat. ”

Hunger and exhaustion. On paper, the daily food ration of prisoners included 500 g of bread, 150 g of meat or fish (beef - four times a week, horse meat - twice a week, dried fish or herring - once a week), 700 g of potatoes, various seasonings and two coffees. In the month of prisoners supposed 100 g of soap. If desired, healthy prisoners were allowed to be employed at work — initially in the military department (in garrisons, etc.), and later in state institutions and from private individuals; it was possible to form working teams from prisoners to replace civilian workers in jobs requiring a large number of workers, such as railway construction, unloading products, etc. ”. Working prisoners received a full soldier's ration and a cash allowance. The wounded and sick should “be interpreted on a par with the soldiers of the Polish Army, and the civilian hospitals pay as much for their upkeep as they were for their soldiers.” In fact, such detailed and humane rules for the detention of prisoners of war were not respected, conditions in the camps were very difficult, as shown by dozens of documents.

A common occurrence in the Polish camps, despite the measures declared by the Polish authorities, was the death of prisoners from exhaustion. The cultural worker of the Red Army, Walden (Podolsky), who went through all the hell circles of Polish captivity in 1919-20, in his memoirs “In Polish Captivity” published in 1931, as if anticipating the controversy that broke out later on 80 years, wrote: “I hear protests of the indignant Polish patriot, who cites official reports indicating that so many grams of fats, carbohydrates, etc. were relied on every prisoner. That is why, apparently, Polish officers were so willing to go to administrative positions in concentration camps. "

Polish historians claim that at this time the camp guard was no better fed than prisoners, as the food situation was widespread. I wonder how often in the diet of the Polish guard were cleaning and hay? It is known that there was no famine in Poland in 1919 — 1921. It is not by chance that the official norms established by the Polish Ministry of Military Affairs in May 1919 of the year were quite benign. On the day of the prisoner, as already mentioned above, 500 g of bread, 150 g of meat, 700 g of potatoes, etc. were supposed. Moreover, during the inspection checks of the camps, the prisoners were fed according to these standards. For example, the Inspectorate of the High Command of the Polish Army, after checking in the autumn of 1920, the nutritional status at the camp in Modlin, recognized the “food of the prisoners satisfactory”. For this, it was enough that on the day of the inspection in the camp “soup with meat, thick and tasty, in sufficient quantity” was cooked and the prisoners got a pound of bread, coffee and marmalade. However, just a few days before the check, a telegram was sent from Modlin to Warsaw that there were 900 gastric patients in the camp hospital and that 58 people had already died. The telegram stated that “the main causes of the disease are the prisoners eating various raw cleanings and completely lacking shoes and clothes”.

From the minutes of the meeting in the High Command of the Polish Army on the situation of prisoners of war (20.12.1919, Warsaw): “Lieutenant Ludwig, answering questions and accusations, states that the reason for the shortcomings is the failure to comply with orders. All the problems of the prisoners were settled by orders, but they are not executed. Prisoners get a lot of food, working — even a full soldier's ration, only theft and abuse are the causes of the plight ... Mr. Magenheim complains that the orders of the High [regarding the FGP] are not carried out; The military authorities ignore the stages of the FGP when sending it to the place of residence. Moreover, both prisoners and refugees and re-emigrants, as well as prisoners with war [last] are being ripped off (meaning the First World War - comment by NM); these latter are often illegally detained. It hurts us in foreign] public opinion. ”

Cold and illness. Another reason for the premature death of many prisoners was the cold due to the lack of clothing and footwear, as well as the condition of camp premises, which are not very suitable for human habitation. Most of the huts lacked heating and light. In many there were no bunks for sleeping, not to mention mattresses and blankets or straw on the floor. From the report of Stephanie Stempolovskaya: “... prisoners ... cannot sleep from the cold at night, run to warm up” (report from 10 / IX 1920). It looked like living conditions in the three camps, which contain about half of the prisoners of war. The second half of the prisoners by small teams lived in rooms about which almost all reports repeat briefly, succinctly “dark, cramped, dirty, cold”, sometimes adding “roofs full of holes, water flowing”, “glasses are broken”, “there are no windows at all, dark” etc.".

The situation was aggravated by epidemics that were raging in Poland during that period of war and devastation. The documents mention typhus, dysentery, Spanish flu (flu), typhoid fever, cholera, smallpox, scabies, diphtheria, scarlet fever, meningitis, malaria, sexually transmitted diseases, and tuberculosis. In the first half of 1919, in Poland, 122 thousand diseases with typhus were reported, including about 10 thousand fatalities, from July 1919 to July 1920 in the Polish army there were about 40 thousand cases of illness. POW camps did not avoid infection with infectious diseases, and often were their hotbeds and potential breeding grounds. At the disposal of the Polish Ministry of Military Affairs at the end of August 1919, it was noted that “the repeated dispatch of prisoners to the interior of the country without complying with the most basic requirements of sanitation led to the infection of almost all camps of prisoners of infectious diseases.”

There was no medical care at all. The wounded for two weeks lay without bandages, until the wounds were inflamed and people died from blood poisoning.

Mortality among prisoners in certain periods was terrifying. Thus, according to representatives of the International Red Cross, in the camp in Brest-Litovsk, which was under the authority of the High Command, where there were perhaps the worst conditions, 7 September to 7 October 1919 from 4.165 1.124 patients died, so on. e. 27%. A sad "record" was set in August, when 180 people died from dysentery within 24 hours. During the December 15 1919, the outbreak of typhus in Bobruisk during December and January, 933 people died, i.e. about half of the contingent contained there, consisting only of the Red Army. But on average, mortality was noticeably lower. For example, the sanitary department of the Polish Ministry of War defined in February 1920, when there was not a large influx of prisoners, the "normal" mortality in the camps of prisoners of war under 7% under its jurisdiction, although it did not specify a day, a month or a year.

The report of the sanitary department to the Minister of War on the plight of prisoners of war in the camps and the need for urgent measures to improve it (December 1919) also cited numerous examples from reports describing the state of the camps, and noted that the deprivations and tortures of prisoners leave an “indelible stain on the honor of the Polish people and the army. " For example, in the camp in Stshalkov “the fight against the epidemic, apart from such reasons as the non-functioning of the bathhouse and the lack of disinfectants, made it difficult for two factors to be partially eliminated by the camp commander: a) permanent taking of the prisoners' linen and replacing it with companies of protection; b) the punishment of the prisoners of the whole detachment by the fact that they were not released from the barracks for three or more days ”.

In the Stschalkovo camp, the mortality rate of the 100-200 person per month was the norm, in the worst period for prisoners of war - in the winter 1920-21. - The number of deaths has already been counted in thousands. In Brest in the second half of 1919, people died every day from 60 to 100. In Tucholi, at the end of 1920, 400 people died in two months.

22 December 1920 of the year in the Lviv newspaper Forward reported that 9 numbers in the Polish Tuchol camp died on the same day 45 Russian prisoners of war. The reason for this was that on a frosty and windy day, “half-naked and bare” prisoners “were taken to the bathhouse” with a concrete floor, and then transferred to dirty dugouts without a wooden floor. "As a result," it was reported in the newspaper, "the dead or the seriously ill were continuously carried out." The official, based on the materials of the newspaper, protests from the Russian delegations in Riga and in the Prussk for inhuman treatment of prisoners of war, the Polish military authorities conducted an investigation. His results, of course, denied reports in the newspaper. “9 December 1920,” the Polish delegation to the PRUVSK informed the Russian delegation, “established on that day the death of 10 prisoners who died of typhoid fever ... The bath was heated ... and healthy prisoners were placed in the barracks previously disinfected, after bathing the patients were placed directly in the hospital. ” According to the results of the investigation, the newspaper “Forward” was closed for an indefinite period “for placing exaggerated and tendentious information”.

After the Warsaw battle of 10 in September of 1920, when more than 50 of thousands of Red Army soldiers fell into Polish captivity, the conditions of detention of prisoners of war in Poland deteriorated significantly. Subsequent battles on the Polish-Soviet front further increased the number of prisoners of war.

At the turn of 1920-1921. in the camps for the captured Red Army soldiers, supplies and sanitary conditions deteriorated sharply again. Hunger and infectious diseases claimed the lives of hundreds of prisoners daily. It is no coincidence that Emil Godlevsky, High Emergency Commissioner on Epidemic Control, in his letter to Polish War Minister Kazimierz Sosnkowski in December 1920 described the situation in prisoner of war camps as "just inhuman and contrary to all hygiene requirements, but culture in general."

There were still no mattresses, blankets, and often beds, there were not enough doctors and other medical personnel in the camps and hospitals, and the available specialists and nurses from prisoners of war were placed in conditions that prevented them from performing their professional duties. ”

Pointing out the terrible conditions of the Red Army prisoners of war in various camps and prisons in Poland at that time, the chairman of the Russian-Ukrainian delegation at the peace talks with Poland A.Ioffe 9 January 1921 sent a lengthy letter to the chairman of the Polish delegation J. Dombrovsky. It gave examples of inhuman attitudes, and drew attention to the fact that “repeated promises to take measures to improve the conditions of Russian-Ukrainian prisoners in the situation of their significant changes did not happen ... According to reports of the American Christian Youth Union (Department of Prisoners of War in Poland, report from 20 in October 1920 g.), prisoners of war were placed in rooms completely unsuitable for housing: the absence of any furniture, the absence of sleeping facilities, so we had to sleep on the floor all mattresses and blankets, almost all the windows without glass, the walls of the hole. Everywhere in prisoners of war there is an almost complete lack of shoes and linen and an extreme lack of clothing. For example, in the camps in Strzalkowo, Tucholi and Dombe, prisoners do not change their underwear for three months, most of them having only one shift, and many without any underwear. In Domba, most of the prisoners are barefoot, and in the camp at the headquarters of the 18 division most of them have no clothes. ” “Avoiding thoughts about the possibility of such living conditions for Polish prisoners of war in Russia and Ukraine,” the governments of Russia and Ukraine stated further “categorically insist on an immediate change in the conditions of detention of Russian-Ukrainian prisoners of war, in particular on the immediate removal from their positions of those camp officials who are guilty of the above atrocities. "

The death toll went to tens of thousands. “Modern Polish journalism,” notes Polish researcher I. Mechik, “interprets these figures as follows: prisoners brought deadly diseases to the epidemic camps: typhoid, dysentery, cholera and Spanish flu. This is true and difficult to argue with. Only if the prisoners walked naked, in the mud, were starving, had no blankets or covers, patients who walked under themselves, were not separated from the healthy, then the result of such an attitude to people was to be a terrible death rate. Russian authors often pay attention to this. They ask: was it a deliberate extermination, maybe not at the government level, but at least at the camp leadership level? And it’s also difficult to polemize. ”


Thus, we can draw the following conclusions. In Polish captivity, Red Army soldiers were destroyed in the following main ways:

1. Mass killings and executions. Basically, before the conclusion of their concentration camps:

a) destroyed in an extrajudicial manner, leaving the wounded on the battlefield without providing medical assistance and creating disastrous conditions of transportation to places of detention;

b) executed by sentences of various courts and tribunals;

c) shot while suppressing insubordination.

2. Creating intolerable conditions. Mainly in the concentration camps themselves using:

a) bullying and beatings

b) hunger and exhaustion,

c) cold and disease.

In general, Polish captivity and internment claimed more than 50 thousand lives of Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian prisoners: about 10-12 thousand thousand Red Army men died before being sentenced to concentration camps, about 40-44 thousand in places of detention (approximately 30-32 thousand Red Army soldiers plus 10-12 thousand civilians and fighters of anti-Bolshevik and nationalist formations).
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  1. Sakhalininsk
    Sakhalininsk 13 June 2012 07: 52
    25
    Psheki as a cheap tram thief trying to shriek "Stop thief !!!" Do we have the moral right to conduct any negotiations with them about Katyn or something else, after they themselves denied the genocide of prisoners in the 19-20s?
    If our leadership goes down to recognize the controversial, it will be ridiculous when they deny the irrefutable against our people!
    1. nitro
      nitro 13 June 2012 11: 55
      26 th
      The European Court HAS NOT TAKEN any decision on the "innocence" of the Soviet Union in the executions of Polish citizens! Why and what is this nonsense written for? Read his decisions with two eyes and do not spread this heinous misinformation.
      The pathetic attempts of the current Russian official propaganda to make Poland an eternal enemy - cause only a smile among educated and sober-minded people! The current regime really needs an external enemy to distract its own problems from the severity, which is why they arise with alarming frequency - Georgia, the Baltic countries, Poland, Ukraine ...
      There can be no justification for the treacherous blow to the back of Poland in September 1939 and, accordingly, for the second, along with Hitler, world aggressor, Stalin WILL NOT BE IN PRINCIPLE!
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 13 June 2012 12: 54
        12
        nitro,
        Poland is our enemy ?? :) I am amused.
        Even Ukraine has humiliated them on their own. Pug on an elephant - irrelevant.
        But Poland considers us an eternal enemy for some reason, and the Japs are the same, and who else considers us an enemy there?
        Eka, where he popped, decided to nod to the Poland section, so what to read:
        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8B_%D0%A0%D
        0%B5%D1%87%D0%B8_%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B9
        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D1%8B%D0
        %B9_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB_%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%88%D0%B8
        The first clash between the USSR and Germany occurred in Spain. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was the most difficult temporary retreat of the USSR from the struggle against the Nazis, due to Munich and the positions of France and Great Britain. Despite the pact, the USSR continued to prepare for the inevitable war against fascism. As a result, it was our country, at the cost of millions of lives, together with the allies, the USA and Great Britain, that crushed Nazi Germany, ”said the chairman of the Institute for Contemporary Development Igor Yurgens, who described the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact;
        Further, Georgia, it’s those nosy uncles who remembers!, Headed by a tie-tie :), I didn’t understand someone and who attacked whom there ?, in South Ossetia.
        And who does not allow the Baltic countries to live? they were heavily subsidized in the USSR, and the European Union does not need this crowd of idiots, well, only if you put up a military base with missiles! Moreover, the whole world is struggling with fascism, and they hmm, to put it mildly, no.
        And where is Ukraine ?, there are half of the country, our relatives, there is friction, but there are not any unsolvable ones. This is so to speak the problems of sovereignty.
        I don’t remember Cheyt's reports on large-scale military operations of the Polish army against the Soviet troops? Could not or did not want to.? Maybe the truth is that ordinary Poles themselves understood that you were fascists!
        1. Goga
          Goga 13 June 2012 13: 31
          +9
          carbofo - Colleague, - quote - "... I don't remember reports on large-scale military operations of the Polish army against Soviet troops?" - after all, even against the Germans in 1939, these "warriors" did not last even weeks - to whom are they able to be an "enemy"? In their blood, it is innate - whoever took them tighter by the ass (the Germans or the USSR) is Pan. Now they think that the power behind NATO is screaming, if the (inevitable) balance of forces changes, Moscow will again lick its boots, over the past 300 years this has happened to them so many times ... recourse
          1. ivachum
            ivachum 13 June 2012 13: 40
            +7
            Jozef Pilsudski: “When I take Moscow, I order on the Kremlin wall to write:“ It is forbidden to speak Russian ””

            Such a misunderstanding as Poland should not exist at all.
        2. Konstantm
          Konstantm 14 June 2012 12: 10
          +2
          They all have an inferiority complex. Mal skunk, but it stinks ....
      2. Zhaman-Urus
        Zhaman-Urus 13 June 2012 14: 57
        10
        And what is the justification for hitting the Polish troops in the back of Czechoslovakia in alliance with Hitler and the seizure of the Tieszyn region? Truly Poland the hyena of Europe. (W. Churchill)
        1. Sakhalininsk
          Sakhalininsk 13 June 2012 16: 30
          -1
          This is the opinion of the liberalizing act of crap laughing and finally do not read komunyachy propaganda :)
      3. Dobrokhod Sergey
        Dobrokhod Sergey 13 June 2012 15: 16
        +9
        “When in the early spring of 1920 I saw the headlines of French newspapers announcing the triumphal march of Pilsudski through the wheat fields of Little Russia, something inside me could not stand it, and I forgot about the fact that not even a year had passed since the day my brothers were shot. and thought: "The Poles are about to take Kiev! The eternal enemies of Russia are about to cut off the empire from its western borders! "I did not dare to express myself openly, but listening to the absurd chatter of the refugees and looking into their faces, I wished the Red Army victory with all my heart.

        It doesn't matter that I was a Grand Duke. I was a Russian officer who took an oath to defend the Fatherland from its enemies. I was the grandson of a man who threatened to plow the streets of Warsaw if the Poles once again dared to disrupt the unity of his empire. "
        "- Do you know what you've done today? - asked the president of the club when I was about to leave. - You made me almost like a Bolshevik ..." "Memories" Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich Romanov.
        1. Pancho
          Pancho 13 June 2012 19: 05
          +3
          Still, it was necessary to open the streets of Warsaw.
          1. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 14 June 2012 10: 27
            0
            plow, where they go
      4. Che
        Che 13 June 2012 15: 32
        +5
        Quote: nitro
        2

        The article is a big plus, I carefully read and copied myself. Struck by the cynicism of the Poles. They are not worthy of the name of the Slavs.
      5. Sakhalininsk
        Sakhalininsk 13 June 2012 16: 29
        +4
        "You are talking nonsense and confidently and categorically" (c) (Bulgakov)
        And why should the court itself take it? With the pathetic attempts of new Psheks to make victims of themselves, but why suddenly, there is no evidence, and if there is not enough evidence, go limotrophic gentlemen far away ... and remember, just in case, Poland is ideal for the rapid movement of tank wedges.
        What treacherous blow are you talking about? In Poland, talking about treachery is like proving to a boar before scoring that he is a breeding producer laughing To talk about their peace of mind, the Panam should recall such a trifle as the treacherous attack on Czechoslovakia.
        But here the conversation is not even about that, but about the fact that the Poles wanting to restore historical justice from their point of view, deny the crimes that hang on their own historical conscience.
        And who is the second aggressor is also that contentious issue, it was not Stalin who unleashed the WWII and this war was not his work. Responsibility for WWII lies entirely with Britain, France and the United States, the former gave Hitler the opportunity to unleash this war, and the latter by sponsoring and restoring Germany’s military industry.
        So finish watching the historic air force blizzard laughing
      6. Pacifist
        Pacifist 13 June 2012 19: 21
        +3
        nitro, you don’t translate arrows. on the topic of propaganda, we are far from your liberal propaganda. There were camps in Poland, and the conditions in them were worse than the Nazi ones. Poles with prisoners behaved like foul vengeful creatures and now have not changed at all. And the very behavior of Poland resembles Krylov's fable. I translate it into simple language, the smaller and meaner the mongrel, the louder it barks ... they are ready to blame everyone, and Nichrome themselves do not want to admit what they have done. It was not a blow to the back of Poland, but the punishment she deserved because of her attitude to Russia. What they achieved, they got it.
      7. Starcom1183
        Starcom1183 14 June 2012 00: 59
        +2
        the words of the true .... enemy. Do you consider yourself smart? Maybe you're just a rat?
      8. nnz226
        nnz226 14 June 2012 01: 21
        +2
        Which Poland in 1939 was "stabbed in the back" by the Soviet troops ??? From which the government escaped a day before the start of the campaign, crap out of fear of the Wehrmacht's "golds" ??? So abandoned good should not roll in the mud. Again, the Curzon line was not invented by Stalin and Hitler, but along it the border began to pass after the collapse of the "creation of the Versailles Peace"
      9. jo_lik
        jo_lik 14 June 2012 10: 57
        +1
        Quote: nitro
        The European Court HAS NOT TAKEN any decision on the "innocence" of the Soviet Union in the executions of Polish citizens! Why and what is this nonsense written for? Read his decisions with two eyes and do not spread this heinous misinformation.

        Well, you and Mr. ... n - read.
        Rosyjska prasa: Trybuna w Strasburgu nie obciy Rosji win za Katy
        and this is a link to the Poles
        http://www.rmf24.pl/fakty/swiat/news-rosyjska-prasa-trybunal-w-strasburgu-nie-ob
        ciazyl-rosji, nId, 597430
    2. mind1954
      mind1954 14 June 2012 00: 31
      +2
      Whoever needed it was shot in Katyn!
      It was such a time! They did not spare their own!
      And in Poland, not the Poles won the victory over us, but the whole Entente!
      Everything that was left of the first world was thrown there and who wanted
      pursue a military career was thrown there!
      De Gaulle fought there, who spent the whole war in captivity!
      KILLING our prisoners in Poland was a POLITICAL KILLING!
      Since of all our prisoners captured in the First World War, 90%
      returned home !!!
      AND THE ANSWER IN KATYN WAS ABSOLUTELY ADEQUATE !!!
      And citizen Putin, for the sake of selling gas, laid a wreath at the killers from the army
      Krai, who cut out our anti-aircraft gunners in Poland at night!
  2. snek
    snek 13 June 2012 08: 49
    +4
    The gloomy page of history - you will not say anything.
  3. Goga
    Goga 13 June 2012 08: 52
    12
    The author raises this question at the right time, full of "+". As soon as the Poles begin to "chew" on the Katyn topic, I was always amazed at the irresponsibility of our media - is there really no one to present reasonably well-grounded accusations against Poland of the mass murder of our prisoners of war? Don't want to "aggravate" the already difficult relations with Poland? So the Poles can “run into” Russia in an arrogant manner on dubious grounds, but we, with indisputable facts in our hands, can not present anything? Somehow it turns out "uneven" ... request
    1. edge
      edge 13 June 2012 11: 51
      +3
      this is government policy, it is easier to shut up a fact than to get involved in a squabble ......... they need to be punished, once again .......... they don’t like the Germans ........ ....
      1. Weekend
        Weekend 13 June 2012 14: 46
        0
        Just send the Poles far to the North along with their accusations, but what connects us with them ??? They are not buying gas from us ??
  4. FREGATENKAPITAN
    FREGATENKAPITAN 13 June 2012 09: 03
    22
    Marked and always drunk E.B.N, in an effort to please the Western "democrats" ran ahead of the carts hanging on the USSR and Russia all earthly troubles and misfortunes ...
    Yeltsin is probably now frying in the pans in devils, but the honorary citizen of Germany found himself a little and is now trying to give Russia advice on how to deal with this or that issue ......
    It would be better if he had the courage and shot himself ....
    Recent events at the European Football Championship in Poland show that, under the guise of fan organizations, fascist youths are attacking our fans, moreover, secretly or explicitly with the assistance of the authorities ......
    This country with an inferiority complex and unrealized ambitions - (... "Polska from MOV to MOV" -) is trying to bite a Russian bear like a naughty dog ​​....
    So it is in the case of the presidential plane ........ Russians are still to blame a priori ... because. the tragedy occurred in Russia ....
    and all the same. that the drunken head of the Air Force gave instructions to the pilots to land despite the dispatchers' recommendations to go to Moscow ...
    I know how Germans relate to the Poles .....
    Here they have to learn to put x and m l o in its place ........
    1. wulf66
      wulf66 13 June 2012 09: 20
      0
      I completely agree! After your comment I do not see the need to enter your own. Respect +
    2. Goga
      Goga 13 June 2012 09: 31
      +6
      FREGATENCAPTAIN - Colleague, well, how can you not remember Mayakovsky, who I do not like, about the passport - "they look at Polish like a goat on a poster, in a stupid police elephantiality, where does it come from FOR geographic news?" wassat
      Since the 18th century Poland has turned into a "non-state", and then it was divided between Germany and Russia, and only our "revolution" allowed to create this "chimera" again. It is well known how the Poles are treated in Europe, and we also have the same attitude towards them (quite justified) - there is clearly not enough at the state level - to show them their place today.
    3. Zhaman-Urus
      Zhaman-Urus 13 June 2012 09: 52
      +6
      Everything is true only "From MOZH to MOZH", and the difference between the Russians and the Poles is that we do not sell the memory and lives of our ancestors and do not beg money from the Poles for the murder of our soldiers, unlike these beggars. How much we ourselves earn ours, we want to drink we want to give, but to whom we will decide for ourselves. Asking compensation from the enemy is not in Russian
      1. Sandov
        Sandov 13 June 2012 21: 02
        +1
        Zhaman-Urus,
        So then it is, so many people have ruined the Poles. Children would have given birth, and those grandchildren. It would be the mother population in Russia. It would now be inhabited by workers and defenders.
  5. AK-74-1
    AK-74-1 13 June 2012 10: 07
    +2
    The article and the author plus for the content and topic raised. Once again I want to say, it's a shame that this is not in our history textbooks at school. Poland is a stillborn state, created and supported only by Anglo-Saxon money for the artificial separation of continental Europe.
    1. Goga
      Goga 13 June 2012 13: 36
      +2
      AK-74-1 - Greetings, Andrey. I completely agree "+", LN Gumilev called such artificial formations "Chimera". But to those who wrote and accepted our history textbooks, I would very much like to look in the eyes ... and not only "look at" ...
  6. Dobrokhod Sergey
    Dobrokhod Sergey 13 June 2012 10: 29
    +1
    After all this, the Poles talk about inhumanity! It’s strange.
  7. 8 company
    8 company 13 June 2012 11: 13
    12 th
    The topic of Katyn is too much publicized, only a few thousand were shot there. If we take the situation as a whole, then more than 100 thousand Polish citizens in the USSR were killed. Google "Polish NKVD operation". As for the inhumanity of the Poles: in our Gulag they treated "enemies of the people" no more humanely, it is worth honoring those who survived - Shalamov, Gorbatov and others. It was unrealistic to survive for more than a year in general jobs in Kolyma.
    1. Goga
      Goga 13 June 2012 12: 52
      +3
      8th company - quote - "... read those who survived - Shalamov, Gorbatov, etc." - Andrey, and you still have such "sufferers" as Voinovich, read it, here you have an "objective" picture in your head and it will form wassat
      But seriously, are you trying to cover up the atrocities of the Polish Nazis by mentioning the GULAG? How is it, according to the principle "he himself is a fool"? Very "wise" of you ...
      1. 8 company
        8 company 13 June 2012 15: 05
        0
        Quote: Gogh
        8th company - quote - "... read those who survived - Shalamov, Gorbatov, etc." - Andrey, and you still have such "sufferers"


        And what do you dislike about Shalamov and Gorbatov? Did they find inaccuracies or a specific lie? Share it with everyone, expose it seriously, based on documents and other memories.
        1. Dobrokhod Sergey
          Dobrokhod Sergey 13 June 2012 15: 24
          0
          Quote: Company 8
          And what do you dislike about Shalamov and Gorbatov? Did they find inaccuracies or a specific lie? Share it with everyone, expose it seriously, based on documents and other memories.


          Major Pugachev - 99% lies.
          1. 8 company
            8 company 13 June 2012 16: 01
            +1
            Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
            Major Pugachev - 99% lies.


            It's all? And no evidence? Google "uprising in Norillag", there were plenty of such Pugachevs, and there were dozens of eyewitness accounts.
            1. nnz226
              nnz226 14 June 2012 01: 27
              +1
              If you read the recollections of the "inmates", then one thing is surprising: "I am white and fluffy, I am sitting innocently, but the rest around - get down to business!" The original interpretation in the description of the "contingent"
    2. carbofo
      carbofo 13 June 2012 13: 01
      +3
      8 company,
      I’m not sure that these are authoritative sources, no one has canceled insanity!
      And the fact that our losses in 1919-1921 due to VINA Poland were colossal and by no reason comparable to Katyn.
      1. 8 company
        8 company 13 June 2012 15: 28
        0
        Quote: carbofo
        And the fact that our losses in 1919-1921 for the fault of Poland were colossal


        And this is you addressing the leadership of the South-West Front claims: Egorov, Stalin, Voroshilov. It was they who refused to comply with the direct order of the RVS to hand over the 1st Horse to Tukhachevsky, and he was at a critical moment of the Polish counterattack without reserves.
    3. Dobrokhod Sergey
      Dobrokhod Sergey 13 June 2012 15: 21
      0
      Quote: Company 8
      it is worth reading those who survived - Shalamov, Gorbatov and others. In general work in Kolyma, it was unrealistic to survive for more than a year.


      Well, they survived!


      Quote: Company 8
      If we take the situation as a whole, then more than 100 thousand Polish citizens in the USSR were killed. Google "Polish NKVD operation"

      Well, google it! What's the matter?
  8. baron.nn
    baron.nn 13 June 2012 11: 34
    +5
    Horror ... Why isn’t the hysteria about the execution of Polish officers raised comic, and not much is known about the crimes of the Poles themselves?
  9. apro
    apro 13 June 2012 11: 38
    +1
    We have something to present to the Psheks a lot of fair claims, but Moscow’s Moscow is unclear for what merits all the time they are creeping unfinished before the panel. Yes, the Poles drank a lot of blood for us, and we them, it’s time to start living quietly, but at the psheks everything itches in one place - there is no one to scratch.
    1. edge
      edge 13 June 2012 11: 57
      +1
      so they are Belarus, they still want Ukraine and Ukraine .......... everything is lacking for them, all the more, Stalin after WWII ceded to them part of the Belarusian lands
  10. Borz
    Borz 13 June 2012 11: 46
    +3
    I had to discuss this topic with the Poles. As soon as I gave examples and evidence of mass killings and inhuman attitudes towards our prisoners of war, my interlocutors stood in the "third position" and shouted in chorus: "So, that is, what a curva, propaganda?" the brain is blocked in places - we can talk about this (Katyn, for example), but about the bullying of our prisoners - in no case. All my ears were buzzing about the atrocities of the Russian army in Chechnya, until I showed several documentaries on this topic. after watching For some reason, my Polish friends were shy and did not raise this topic any more. One even confessed to me: “I have never seen such a thing, it’s scary for humanity.” He was so impressed after watching the plot about slaves and prisoners of war.
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 13 June 2012 13: 09
      +4
      Their brains have been affected by hatred and ignorance since childhood, many of us know more about the world than the middle European high school class.
      The limitation of information is a good thing in small doses, but when everyone naturally shaves their brains, it leads to the fact that many of us can put on the fingers of any Western patriot.
      Everything is completely head over heels in blood, in whom do not poke, but only they all assure that it is not so and only Russians killed everyone! Rave.
      1. Sehiru san
        Sehiru san 13 June 2012 14: 40
        0
        That is exactly what happened.
  11. 8 company
    8 company 13 June 2012 12: 30
    -6
    Quote: Borz
    As soon as I gave examples and evidence of massacres and inhuman attitudes towards our prisoners of war, my interlocutors stood in the "third position" and shouted in chorus: "So, that is, curva, propaganda?"


    So we have the same thing. If a Pole begins to talk in Russia about the crimes of the Stalinist regime, his interlocutors will likewise take the "third position" and start shouting in chorus: "This is all lies and propaganda!" It's a kind of patriotism to deny the obvious if it is unsightly.
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 13 June 2012 13: 11
      +1
      Incompetence has not been canceled. Not everyone has a little bit voluminous information on the issue.
    2. Goga
      Goga 13 June 2012 13: 13
      +4
      Company 8 - Andrei, but do you have anything other than the "crimes of the Stalinist regime" to justify the crimes of the Polish Nazis? And then, like a disc that is hackneyed before,
      - Trotsky and his assistants organized concentration camps for political opponents - "crimes of the Stalinist regime."
      - The top army leadership is screwed up about the initial stage of the war - "the crimes of the Stalinist regime."
      - The Poles killed tens of thousands of prisoners of war - "crimes of the Stalinist regime."
      Well, what does IP have to do with it? Andrei, you get interesting articles, you’re in a position to somehow more reasonably justify your point of view, otherwise it turns out -
      "Elderberry in the garden ..." bully
  12. 8 company
    8 company 13 June 2012 13: 46
    -5
    Quote: Gogh
    Do you have excuses for the crimes of the Polish Nazis?


    And where did you get the idea that I justify the crimes of the Poles against our prisoners of war? Give my quote on this subject. I just pointed out that constantly blaming the Poles for what they themselves are sinners looks a little strange.
    1. Goga
      Goga 13 June 2012 14: 07
      +2
      Company 8 - quote - "More than 100 thousand Polish citizens were killed in the USSR. Google" Polish operation of the NKVD. "And about the inhumanity of the Poles: in the Gulag we treated" enemies of the people "no more humanely - well, what if not an excuse for the Polish In your opinion, why ask the Poles for their inhumanity when we treat ourselves this way?
      And in addition, in our country, the highest political body (at that time), the 20th Congress of the CPSU, officially condemned the "crimes of the Stalinist regime", so often mentioned by you (how someone perceives this is another matter). Tell me, in Poland, any official body condemned the crimes of the Pilsudski regime?
      It doesn't seem to you that here, in the most vivid form, the usual "European" approach is expressed - to kill "civilized" Poles is "bad" - and "wild" Russians - easily, and why not kill them if they themselves kill each other ...?
      1. 8 company
        8 company 13 June 2012 14: 58
        -3
        Quote: Gogh
        It does not seem to you that the usual "European" approach is being expressed here, in the most striking form -


        I repeat my comment a little higher:
        It is such a peculiar patriotism to deny the obvious if it is unsightly.

        Quote: Gogh
        In your opinion - what to ask from the Poles for inhumanity when we treat ourselves like that?


        In a moral sense, yes. What moral right do we have to poke the Poles with their noses at the inhumane treatment of prisoners, if in our country the prisoners were treated exactly the same and carried out mass repressions against the Poles? I can explain using another example: Europe and the USA have achieved independence for Kosovo Albanians, but they deny the right to independence of Abkhazians. The question is, what moral right do they have to deny independence to the Abkhazians? Answer: no.
        1. Goga
          Goga 13 June 2012 15: 10
          +3
          8th company - Well, Andrey, this passage about "moral right" is generally based on some kind of "transcendent" logic -
          In your opinion - if in 1936-1937 many of our people died in concentration camps - then from Hitler, for the death of our people in his concentration camps, we didn't have to ask "moral rights" ??? belay
          1. 8 company
            8 company 13 June 2012 15: 22
            -6
            Goga,

            Hitler did not make himself civilized; he massacred peoples. German camps cannot be compared with Polish and Soviet, I think. Or do you want to equate Stalin with Hitler? In my opinion, this is incorrect. belay
            1. Goga
              Goga 13 June 2012 15: 56
              +4
              Company 8 - But there is no need to "juggle", with all the set of ambiguous historical facts, my opinion about IP and its role in our history is much higher than the opinion of all the leaders of our country who followed him.
              Nazism is an abomination in any version, whether in German or in Polish - and in this sense, how do the Pilsudski concentration camps (where the "Russian byd - o" were destroyed) differ from Hitler's camps (where all the "subhumans" were destroyed)?
              I already asked you above, I will repeat - in our country they officially recognized and condemned the repressions that you constantly write about - and in Poland, officially, did anyone recognize the fact of mass extermination of prisoners of war? Why are they always trying to put us in the position of "repentant"? At the same time, those who insist on this have their hands up to the elbows in blood. Double standard, and it began far from our time.
              This "myth-making", attempts to present our people and country as bloodthirsty savages, have been going on for more than a hundred years - "the whole world" knows the bloodthirsty tyrant - Ivan the Terrible from "wild" Russia and somehow it is not customary to say that contemporary European monarchs are in "enlightened “England and France, at the same time, destroyed an order of magnitude more of their compatriots, than the Russians suffered from the“ atrocities ”of Ivan IV, and no one calls these“ enlightened ”either formidable or bloody. From the same "opera" - serfdom was abolished in the USA later than in Russia, separate education for blacks and whites (which never happened in Russia) was abolished altogether in the second half of the twentieth century - and at the same time they were "a beacon democracy "and we are a" totalitarian country ".
              Your attempts to deprive our country of the "moral right" to ask the Poles for the death of our compatriots from the same row. Put your own question (in all fairness) from the other side - What "moral right" can the Poles have, who killed our prisoners of war in the 20s, to present us with claims for Katyn in the 40s? And "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"? I do not exclude that if there really were shootings on our part in Katyn, then in many respects it was done as retribution for Polish atrocities - and this is correct.
              1. carbofo
                carbofo 13 June 2012 16: 06
                +3
                Goga,
                Revenge is a dish to be served cold.
                Not sure if this was the case on the orders of Stalin.
                The methods are not the same; we have never gravitated to mass executions.
                But the Poles and Germans easily.
                Moreover, it is still not clear who exactly shot them.!
                If we have nothing to do with it, then we must bring to every Pole that he is homosexual :)
                1. Goga
                  Goga 13 June 2012 16: 58
                  +1
                  carbofo - Colleague, - quote - "Besides, it is definitely not yet known who exactly shot it.!" - correctly noted, much in the "evidence" is clearly far-fetched during the reign of the hunchback, and I wrote - if on our part, there were indeed executions in Katyn - which is not a fact at all.
                  - quote - "The methods are not the same, we have never gravitated towards mass executions" - this is so, but about "retribution" I wrote in response to Andrey to his denial of our "moral right" to ask the Poles for their atrocities.
                  - quote - "every Pole needs to be told that he is homosexual" - and what is there to bring then? If for a dozen more years Poland will hold out in united Europe - they themselves will boast of their guznobludstvo, like their colleagues from "old" Europeans ... wassat
              2. 8 company
                8 company 13 June 2012 16: 11
                -2
                But in Poland, officially, did anyone recognize the fact of the mass extermination of prisoners of war?


                As far as I know, they admitted, but explained this by all sorts of "objective" circumstances.

                Quote: Gogh
                What "moral right" can the Poles have, who destroyed our prisoners of war in the 20s, to present us with claims for Katyn in the 40s?


                Nothing. And who said that they have it? I did not say that. Once again, we conclude that we have: Poles ruined our tens of thousands of prisoners in the 20s, the USSR ruined tens of thousands of Poles during the Polish NKVD operation in 1939-1940. Thus, neither side has a moral right to spread rot on the other side for what it itself is to blame. And in the case of legal claims of one side, the second automatically puts forward counterclaims.

                Quote: Gogh
                "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"? I do not exclude that if there really were shootings in Katyn from our side, then in many respects it was done as retribution for Polish atrocities - and this is correct.


                According to your logic, did we have to set up concentration camps for the Germans in Germany after the victory, burn them in crematoriums, and make soap from their fat?
                1. Goga
                  Goga 13 June 2012 16: 41
                  +2
                  8th company - Andrey, - quote - "And in the case of legal claims of one side, the second automatically puts forward counter claims." - so that's the trouble - the Poles have put forward their claims to our country long ago and are constantly voicing them, but from our side there are no claims to Poland ... where is it "automatically" ...
                  - quote - "arrange concentration camps for the Germans, burn them in crematoria, make soap from their fat?" - no, as in a cheap television series - "to understand and forgive", and yet resignedly agree to the unification of Germany, hastily withdraw the grouping of its troops, leaving all the infrastructure and property there free of charge and with a feeling of "deep guilt for what they did" to listen, unrequitedly, reprimands for the "inhuman" bombing of Koenigsberg by Soviet aviation - apparently this corresponds to your notions of justice. But not mine.
                  You and I have completely different life experiences, different sources of information - and hence a different attitude to history and contemporary events. I am firmly convinced that our country is now not in continuous "repentance" for all committed and attributed to it "sins" needs - enough, already "reckless" more than the rest of the world put together, it's time to stop looking "Westerners" in the eyes and with an arched back ingratiating smile - Europeans will never accept us as equals, their hatred of us is inherent at the genetic level and they recognize and respect only strength. So it’s time to show it, but we have a "moral right" for this or not - it does not matter - only the interests of our country and our people are important.
                  1. 8 company
                    8 company 13 June 2012 17: 11
                    +2
                    Quote: Gogh
                    our country is now not in continuous "repentance" for all committed and attributed to it "sins" needs - x


                    And I never said that Russia needs "repentance". If someone talks about it, he is just a "bad person". You can only repent of what you yourself have done. Putin very correctly stated about Stalin's crimes:

                    Our people, who went through the horrors of the civil war, forced collectivization, through the mass repressions of the 1930s, are very well aware, perhaps better than anyone, which Katyn, Mednoye, Pyatikhatka mean for many Polish families. Because in this mournful row there are places of mass executions of Soviet citizens. This Butovo range near Moscow, Sekirnaya Gora on Solovki, the shooting ditches of Magadan and Vorkuta, the nameless graves of Norilsk and Belomorkanal.
                    Repressions destroyed people, not analyzing nationalities, beliefs, religions. Entire classes in our country became their victims: Cossacks and priests, simple peasants, professors and officers — officers, including the tsarist army, who had come to the service of the Soviet government at the time and were not spared them — teachers and workers. There was only one logic - to spread fear, to arouse the most base instincts in a person, to direct people towards each other, to make blindly and thoughtlessly obey.
                    There can be no excuse for these crimes. In our country, a clear political, legal, moral assessment is given of the atrocities of the totalitarian regime. And such an assessment is not subject to any revisions.
                    We must keep the memory of the past, and, of course, we will do it, no matter how bitter this truth may be. We are not given the opportunity to change the past, but it is within our power to preserve or restore the truth, and therefore historical justice.
                    This hard work, painstaking work was undertaken by the historians of Russia and Poland, representatives of the public, clergy. Turning to the past, they work for the sake of truth, and therefore, for the future relations of our two countries.
                    It is such a joint path to understanding national memory and historical wounds that can help us avoid a dead end of misunderstanding and perpetual settling of accounts, primitive interpretations of dividing peoples into right and wrong, as irresponsible politicians sometimes strive to do.
                    For decades, cynical lies have tried to smear the truth about the Katyn executions. But it would be the same lie and fraud to blame the Russian people for these crimes.
                    The story, written by anger and hatred, is just as false and varnished as the story, sleek in the name of the interests of specific people or specific political groups.

                    From a speech by Vladimir Putin on April 7, 2010 in Katyn - http://www.premier.gov.ru/events/news/10122/
                    1. Goga
                      Goga 13 June 2012 17: 22
                      0
                      8th company - Surprisingly, Andrey, but this time, after a long correspondence, we seem to have managed to come to an agreement - I am far from being an "unconditional" supporter of BB, but I completely agree with this statement, as well as with this last "post" of yours.
                      I would like to hear from the Polish leaders something similar to this statement of VV.
                      1. 8 company
                        8 company 13 June 2012 19: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: Gogh
                        I am far from an "unconditional" supporter of BB, but I fully agree with this statement, as well as with this last "post" of yours.


                        Well, it turned out that you can still come to a consensus, if you understand that we all ultimately are interested in one thing: a strong, prosperous Russia is a guarantee of the high quality of life of its people. drinks
                      2. carbofo
                        carbofo 14 June 2012 14: 04
                        +1
                        Goga,
                        Daddy told me here that even at the Nyurbeng trial it was proved that the Germans did it. I'm talking about the events under Katyn.
                        It is worth checking out.
                      3. marubeni
                        marubeni 26 June 2012 04: 54
                        0
                        Your dad is absolutely right!
              3. Sandov
                Sandov 13 June 2012 21: 16
                +1
                8 company,
                The British and Amers set up camps for the Germans after the war. The people were ruined inadvertently.
              4. carbofo
                carbofo 14 June 2012 14: 09
                +2
                Quote: Company 8
                According to your logic, did we have to set up concentration camps for the Germans in Germany after the victory, burn them in crematoriums, and make soap from their fat?

                The offer is interesting only for a European or an American.
                We are other people

                here with a friend discussed:
                even after the Caucasian war, the people of the Caucasus were shaking that we, like Turks, would kill men in the villages and rape everything that moves, not to mention robberies, but NO.

                they still don’t understand nifig, Russians came to conquer, schools didn’t forbid their religion, they didn’t forbid religion, they didn’t rob, they didn’t kill, they didn’t rape, they built hospitals, they brought doctors and taught them, they gave education, they armed the army, the police have created

                WHO else in the WORLD did this ??, no one and I never know this,
    2. marubeni
      marubeni 26 June 2012 04: 52
      0
      So they are guided by this. "The Russians must be killed!" - shouted Polish fans and natsyuki, beating up Russian fans. And UEFA also gave them a sanction. "UEFA condemns the isolated incidents that took place in Warsaw yesterday before and after the Poland-Russia match, when the groups famous troublemakers bombarded the police with heavy objects and attacked fans no matter which team they supported. "
      From the official UEFA statement of June 13.

      Thus, crimes motivated nationally against Russians are hooliganism. Burning the Russian flag - the Poles have patriotism. But the red flag with a sickle and a hammer and an epic hero are extremism. The Poles are the eternal enemy of the Russians, and the enemy is vile and dishonorable, attacking from behind and secretly.
  • Nechai
    Nechai 13 June 2012 14: 43
    +2
    Quote: snek
    The gloomy page of history - you will not say anything.

    And it continues - yesterday’s events in Warsaw confirm this. About Poles below, but that’s most outraged - the toothlessness and poherism of our state machine. And the gentlemen from the FSB, and Fursenko screwed up to the fullest. They could not have predicted, so at least they would have organized reliable protection of our fans from branded pscheks! In the end, they were hired by the German private security companies, they would have EXCHANGED themselves with great pleasure. And so - who gave the selection to the provocateurs - was arrested by the Polish police, and who were not able to fend for themselves - in the hospital. What a football to go nuts! It is in such and such things that it is checked who and what the given state is.
    About the past - to represent the matter in such a way that the Poles were nonhumans ONLY with RUSSIANS - to sin against the truth! In the Polish concentration camps - Stlashkov, Tukhlov, communists were killed and Jews suspected of this, as well, the Red Army Germans were shot right on the spot. And after the collapse of the Weimar Republic, the Polish authorities did absolutely EVERYTHING to establish a Nazi machine for the destruction of people. Repeatedly, almost on a permanent basis, there was an exchange of delegations from the corresponding "institutions" of the Third Reich and concentration camps in Poland. Moreover, the Polish "SPECIES" carried out inspection trips to the German ones and their result was recommendations for improving the conveyors of human destruction ... Now, in the light of the aftermath, all this seems absurd, BUT EXACTLY so it was in reality. And the aggression of the Nazis against itself was largely provoked by Poland itself. When, on a command from London, in 6 months she shifted the course of foreign and domestic policy towards Germany and the Germans living in Poland in the opposite direction. We know perfectly well how it ended. But this perfectly shows the level of intelligence (or rather its complete absence) of the Polish elite, the arrogant gentry!
    1. Weekend
      Weekend 13 June 2012 14: 59
      +2
      And I wrote in an article about the creation of PMCs in the Russian Federation that this is simply necessary! It would have been possible to do without the German private security companies, but only to attract the Russian PMCs in terms of protecting fans from pscheks and themselves.
    2. Goga
      Goga 13 June 2012 15: 00
      +1
      Nechai - Greetings, Valery, everything is correct "+", I can only add that the Poles, according to the "Munich Agreement", also "wandered" from Czechoslovakia merged to Hitler for themselves two regions. And now they shout like victims that they are the main "sufferers" in that war. And the price of the Polish "ambition" is known - the same Polish "penny".
  • Sehiru san
    Sehiru san 13 June 2012 14: 44
    +5
    "To the serpentine people, hissing tongue" It was not said by me and a very long time ago ...
    The Poles have always pursued a weather vane policy. Wait a bit, if Russia gets stronger, and the states and Europe finally go bankrupt, then wait for them to visit ...
  • Nechai
    Nechai 13 June 2012 15: 09
    +4
    Quote: Sehiru San
    states and Europe will finally go bankrupt, then wait for them to visit ...

    yes it is clear - on four moslah, bare "stern" in front. With entreaties - well, take mee.
    Actually yesterday's draw Poland-Russia is the best result for our state machine both externally and internally in the political aspect. Defeat our Pshek national team yesterday on the head - it would have been perceived as a national tragedy and humiliation. After Kidnyak, as they think with Nord Stream, after the malicious destruction of their president, by creating a foggy curtain, a bandit change in atmospheric pressure, secretly transforming the landscape in the Severny airport, and then in football, they virgin dreams are all national humiliation. And tonight in Warsaw would have been much, much more tragic for both our fans and the Russian national team (no, stoop to arrange an exhausting round and long sound cacaphony for our players?!?!?!). And what would OUR DEAR STATE RESPOND THEN? Again - did she drown? And know the comments? Maintaining the INTERESTS OF THE STATE is not only the interests of Gazprom, Transneft, etc. First of all, this is the safety of EVERY CITIZEN OF RUSSIA!
    1. Goga
      Goga 13 June 2012 16: 05
      +2
      Nechai - Valery, "++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ... good
  • 8 company
    8 company 13 June 2012 16: 37
    +1
    By the way, about yesterday's football. The Poles fought in earnest and personally earned my respect, although I support Russia. I respect, when seemingly plain-looking teams, due to strong-willed qualities, achieve what would seem impossible. But the Russian team did not demonstrate such strong-willed qualities, tried to leave for a skill that is really higher than that of the Poles, but ... Alas! sad

    And as for the behavior of the fans ... What to do: in Russia there are many people who consider the Poles to be enemies, and in Poland, just as many consider Russians to be enemies. This has happened historically, and many generations will pass before this hatred fades.
    1. serge
      serge 13 June 2012 19: 55
      +2
      8th company regarding football:
      Have you watched the match? The judge did not give two (!) One hundred percent penalties to the goal of the Poles. Well, yes, ours are of a higher class, but not so much as to beat the good Polish national team with one left, with which they also played 1: 1 a year or two ago in Moscow. Well, yes, the Poles ran better (which is strange from a medical point of view, because only three days ago they died in the second half with the Greeks; here it smells of doping). Just once the judge wouldn’t cheat, and the running of the Poles (and not "strong-willed qualities") would have been wasted.
      1. 8 company
        8 company 13 June 2012 21: 54
        0
        Quote: serge
        Have you watched a match? The judge did not give two (!) Absolute penalties to the Poles


        I looked, 1 penalty was not assigned, I do not argue. yes
    2. mind1954
      mind1954 14 June 2012 00: 50
      +1
      You are not tired of objectivity yet!
      And I think that it’s not the Poles here!
      Masked people attacked the fans!
      I think these are representatives of the same people
      who organize all kinds of orange opposition in our country,
      sending greetings from TransNacCapital to our fascist regime!
  • carbofo
    carbofo 13 June 2012 20: 17
    +2
    I think it's worth reading, for those interested. :
    http://copypast.ru/2012/06/13/polnyjj_spisok_vsekh_voennykh_prestuplenijj_ssha.h

    tml
    http://copypast.ru/2012/06/13/polnyjj_spisok_vsekh_voennykh_prestuplenijj_ssha_c

    h.2.html
    http://copypast.ru/2012/06/13/polnyjj_spisok_vsekh_voennykh_prestuplenijj_ssha_c

    h.3.html
    Judging by the read (not yet completely) technologies of provocations and orange revolutions have been taking place in American politics for a long time.
  • 16
    16 14 June 2012 01: 15
    +1
    Well, and that the Poles are pushing us with Katyn ?????????????? there was a war ----------
  • nnz226
    nnz226 14 June 2012 01: 17
    +2
    "The favorite pastime of some Polish cavalrymen (" the best in Europe ") was to place prisoners of the Red Army throughout the huge cavalry parade ground and learn from them how to" break up to the waist "from the entire" heroic "shoulder, at full gallop a man" Katyn and they shot, and why should you feel sorry for them now ???? For all your filthiness, psheki, you have to pay !!!
  • asavchenko59
    asavchenko59 14 June 2012 05: 56
    +1
    WHY processes on these monsters have not begun?
  • Nechai
    Nechai 14 June 2012 12: 16
    +2
    Quote: serge
    Only once did the judge

    And that's just because the EASY judge raised his flag - offside. And he didn’t give the main whistle - the ball was in the goal of the Russian team. But to count it, with the waving flag of the side - it would be something. The fact that good will not end was clearly the day of God. In the Polish media, a hysterical company for combing grievances. Thirst for revenge, although used on the football field.
    About the bygone past - to the end of the camp, the Psheks sent not only Russians, but also representatives of all the peoples living in the country - Litvins, and Belarusians, and Ukrainians, and Hutsul, and Russians. Everyone who tried to resist scorching, stigmatization. This is the difference between us - good neighborliness, involvement of all nations and nationalities in our social and economic life on our part. And gratitude, indiscriminate submission, the demand of slavish submission on their part.
    About Katyn - guys! It may be enough to procrastinate the Goebelian nonsense ?! And now, it is being used in vertebral fashion with one single purpose - to blame RUSSIANS from scratch. To reduce us to our level of inhumanity.
  • Vyalik
    Vyalik 14 June 2012 12: 53
    0
    I always said that there are three nations that hate RUSSIA. Psheks are Angles and Amers.
  • mars6791
    mars6791 18 June 2012 00: 28
    0
    I learned a lot from this article, well, God doesn’t see Timothy, to be honest now, no sympathy for the deceased in the plane crash near Smolensk.