Why is it fundamentally impossible to build the USSR-2?

733
This question arose when discussing the article "USSR-2 Kurginyan and the main issue of the revolution". Experts do not consider it for the same reason that the projects of "perpetual motion" are not considered: these are questions of the same order. Enthusiasts offer many cleverly designed structures of perpetual motion machines, they ardently defend their projects, but they are not considered: they all will not work a priori. Therefore, it makes no sense to consider plans for building the USSR-2. But we are not from scientific experts, so we will give some thoughts on this.





What does our social science say about this? Historical the circumstances of the emergence of the USSR are unique and inimitable, therefore it is impossible to reproduce the USSR with any index: life itself has changed a lot since then. Further, the merits of the USSR, of which we are moaning, were supplemented by its shortcomings, one without the other is impossible: what to do with it? The party bureaucracy, the dictatorship of the first secretaries of the regional committees led by the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Secretary General, and from below the comradely courts, the administrative system, too, would have to be revived. This is where the construction of the “perpetual motion machine” begins, which should provide us with advantages and remove Soviet flaws, but at the same time new unforeseen undesirable consequences associated with new forms of life, for example, with the Internet, will appear. Which, to predict is fundamentally impossible.

On the other hand, we are already reviving the USSR today when we use its historical experience, watch Soviet films, sing songs, read books, rely on its achievements and authority, and thus really revive some better forms of the USSR in today's life. Incidentally, this is what Western analysts and public figures mean when they talk about authoritarian (incorrigible undemocratic) Russia.

But this is not enough for our radical left fighters for freedom and justice, like the pro-Western liberal party: some again want to "demolish the system", others want real Western colonial "democracy", and all together want "Russia without Putin", this slogan strangely unites them . They know it and flaunt it: it won't be worse. It will be much worse, and first of all these political adventurers.

In general, these slogans are from the beginning of the twentieth century, when the word “communism” in Russia was as fashionable as “democracy” today, and all revolutionaries declared a cardinal and humane reorganization of society. It was believed that for this it was enough to solve by means of revolution only the question of power, so that the progressive forces themselves become the new revolutionary power, and then with the help of the power - this magic wand - they can realize the humane social concept suffered by the great progressive minds of humanity. Then - the Marxist communist, today - a certain USSR-2, and the liberals - finally make Russia a western colony, as Ukraine did. Again, the only way to solve all the problems our “humanists” see is mastering by any means the supreme power in the country, even a coup, therefore, by the way, they justify the Euromaidan and the Bandera regime in Ukraine.

However, the theoretical hopes of a revolutionary way of solving society’s problems are seriously undermined by the history of real revolutions, beginning with the Great French Revolution and ending with the Great October Revolution in Russia. For some reason, a revolution necessarily leads to devastation, a civil war, a revolution devouring its children, that is, to the repression of some revolutionaries against others. As a result, the dictatorship of Napoleon was established in France, and Stalin in Russia.

At the end of the twentieth century, the American special services, together with the neo-Trotskyists, made of the former revolutionary theory political technologies on the revolutionary regime change to puppet "democratic" pro-American colonies under the control of the American ambassador, without whose supervision these "democracies" immediately turn into a junta or dictatorship. In fact, they compromised the very idea of ​​revolution.

However, such “revolutions” still retain their heroic aura in a part of the youth, it is still conducted on the promises of rapid cardinal changes for the better. Therefore, over and over again, the color revolutions are successful, even if by the US State Department training manual. On the "democratic revolution", on their "manuals" in Ukraine in 2014, the US spent just 5 billion dollars, according to US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland.

For the one who interprets these revolutionary results, the question arises: why do revolutions never achieve their stated goals? Why can they never change society in accordance with the program statements of its theoretical forerunners and founding fathers?

Biased experts from different political parties, as a rule, explain everything, though in different ways, with the tragic mistakes of the new revolutionary government, its leaders and local actors, and the resistance of the reactionary satraps of the old regime. They even led out the bitter maxim: romantics and idealists are making a revolution, and quite different, unsympathetic people enjoy the fruits of it, however, they, too, are leaving the revolutionary party!

One of those who are not satisfied with such answers was the historian Lev Nikolaevich Gumilyov, the author of the theory of passionarity. He knew the nature of the revolutionaries well: after all, revolutionaries are doing just passionaries! .. Lev Gumilyov himself suffered greatly from the 1917 revolution of the year: his father, a famous poet and officer Nikolai Gumilyov, the Bolsheviks shot, his mother, the poet Anna Akhmatova, was persecuted by revolutionary power, He himself spent the Soviet camps first 10 years "for dad", then another 10 years "for mom", and during a break he volunteered for the Red Army to fight the Nazis. Because Lev Gumilyov already then understood what the secret of the revolution is, that it is objective and does not depend on the personality of the revolutionaries, as well as on the reactionaries opposing them.

Therefore, with the beginning of perestroika in the USSR, a dissident and a democrat Lev Gumilev did not, on the contrary, he began to support the falling Soviet power. To the question of a certain “democratic pen” he answered: “What kind of a democrat am I? I have a profession! ”As a historian, Lev Gumilyov knew that the red wheel of the revolution that swept across Russia in the twentieth century, including his family, according to him, was historically objective. He saw similar revolutions in the history of a great many, long before the Great French, and they always came to the same bitter outcome.

The historian Lev Gumilyov drew attention to the scientific works of the Austrian biologist Ludwig Bertalanffy, his book "The General Theory of Systems". In his work "The Ethnogenesis and Biosphere of the Earth Gumilev refers to Bertalanffy:" The system is a complex of elements that are in interaction. " That is, the primary elements of information are not separate facts, but links between facts. ” The Belgian Russian-born physicist Ilya Prigogine draws the same conclusions. The properties and characteristics of the system determine the connections that are established between the elements of this system. If you break these bonds, living and inanimate matter as a system irrevocably dies, loses all its characteristics.

The historian Lev Gumilyov made for himself the discovery that the law of Bertalanffy-Prigogine’s system is also true for historical groups: society, public education makes the connections established in it. If you break ties in society, it will perish irretrievably, as living and inanimate matter dies. Moreover, most elements of the old world: people, palaces and fortresses, enterprises and various public institutions, the army and navy will remain, but they will begin to live a completely different life. Other ties will be established between them, if, of course, they survive physically, which is far from a fact.

The links established between the elements of society are expressed by the people who support these links. Actually, these people, formed into a certain elite, are the power in this society. How well they cope with their function, how well they succeed - another question.

The revolution, destroying the old power, its specific carriers, breaks precisely the ties between the elements of society, and this is all that it is capable of. This is enough to destroy the old social system, the “old world,” although most of its elements are alive and well. People who survived the revolution begin to live differently, but not always as the revolutionary romantics dream.

To become a real power, victorious revolutionaries need to establish links between the atomized elements of society. Moreover, such that public institutions simply function, otherwise people who survived the revolution, including the revolutionaries themselves, will simply die of hunger. Immediately after the revolutionary breakthrough, the new government wants, of course, to establish its own relations between all public institutions and people taken from the party program. In Russia, after 1917, this resulted in the policy of “war communism”, and very quickly the new government was threatened not even with counter-revolution, but simply with famine, and Lenin, in defiance of the party, introduces the NEP into his economy: he returns old private property relations to the economy and society. Many ideological communists then shot ...

From the law of Bertalanffy - Prigogine - Gumilev it follows that revolutionaries will never succeed in establishing their own programmatic links in the society they atomized. Despite its dictatorship. In practice, revolutionary programs are divorced from life and impracticable, as they thought. There remains more rhetoric from them. All the elements of society are “old”, from the “old world”, and the reorganization schemes are all theoretical and terribly far from the “old” elements of society, from real life. The “old” elements of society with all their desire cannot live “in a new way,” and even the dictatorship cannot do anything about it.

As a result, although under the pressure of revolutionaries, with the participation of old specialists in the society, some kind of compromise ties are established, very far from revolutionary schemes, in order not to perish everyone from hunger and external threats. The threat of total death in the face of the ineffectiveness of revolutionary programs makes it hard to look for these compromises. It is necessary for an atomized revolution to establish in the shortest possible time new connections instead of broken ones, including revolutionaries, who also want to eat every day.

The post-revolutionary struggle for the survival of society as a system is unfolding; in the process of finding solutions to current pressing problems, system communications are restored. This is where the struggle of the realist revolutionary with the romantic idealists begins. In post-revolutionary Russia, this was expressed in the struggle of the elite groups of Stalin and Trotsky.

Atomized by the revolution, the society under the control of a part of the revolutionaries begins, by trial and error, to establish new working links between its elements, the only criterion is that they work. Therefore, a huge number of old working ties are being restored, although they have been changed, and a certain number of new relationships are introduced that do not interfere with life. In fact, a post-revolutionary society begins to be built "from scratch", and it is precisely the revolution that throws it into this "zero"! Hence the inevitable companions of the revolution are civil war and devastation.

Revolutionary idealists are depressed from all this: their ideals have been turned away. They leave power, from the new emerging elite of society, and if they resist, they are destroyed by the new established power, so the revolution devours its children. In the Russian revolution of 1917, this is called collectively "the repression of 1937 of the year."

Lev Gumilev understood all this as a historian, so he forgave the Bolsheviks and did not accept perestroika democracy. He simply knew that the connections in the social system - her power, the elite, form the requirements of her survival as a system according to Bertalanffy-Prigogine, and not communist or democratic dogmas. Therefore, any revolution does not achieve its stated goals, therefore neither the USSR-2, nor "democracy" is possible, and if Russia survives a new revolutionary break and reflects the external threat of the US and NATO, Russia will be born some kind of fundamentally unpredictable today. If, of course, survives, that is not a fact.
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  1. +70
    11 January 2019 15: 07
    That's right, it’s impossible to restore the USSR, therefore it is necessary to steal further, consider people to be cattle, and so that no one thinks of writing such guard articles, calming themselves and society.
    PS Lenin built the state. And what did Gumilev build?
    1. -42
      11 January 2019 15: 20
      Quote: Altona

      PS Lenin built the state.

      Wow ... And the Russian Empire did not seem to know statehood ... wassat
      True, Lenin reduced this empire a little territorially ... maybe this is his building ...
      1. +33
        11 January 2019 15: 22
        Quote: Nasr
        But the Russian Empire did not seem to know statehood ...

        ------------------------
        Wow. Was the Russian Empire an ideal state?
        1. -32
          11 January 2019 15: 27
          Wow ... But what was Lenin built ideal? And what did Lenin actually build? More precisely, Trotsky, because Lenin at the time of construction was already a vegetable ..
          But, Lenin nobly destroyed the state of RI - this is - Yes!
          1. +48
            11 January 2019 15: 49
            Quote: Nasr
            And what did Lenin actually build? More precisely Trotsky

            Well, Trotsky certainly did the work, and he did not build the genocide of the Cossacks, the Russian people and a little new Khazars!) But Stalin corrected the situation. As for the Republic of Ingushetia, thank you to the bourgeoisie here, they ruined it, the Bolsheviks only took hold of the sneezed power, and with the bourgeois we would have become today's raw material colony 100 years ago.
            1. -19
              11 January 2019 15: 52
              So what did Lenin build?
              1. +34
                11 January 2019 16: 02
                Quote: Nasr
                So what did Lenin build?

                My personal opinion is that the greatest merit of Lenin was that he was able to build a cohesive revolutionary force and was able to coordinate everything clearly, today there are no such talents yet ...
                1. -22
                  11 January 2019 18: 30
                  Quote: Meshcheryak
                  Quote: Nasr
                  So what did Lenin build?

                  My personal opinion is that the greatest merit of Lenin was that he was able to build a cohesive revolutionary force and was able to coordinate everything clearly, today there are no such talents yet ...

                  Lenin built the state of Finland ... nothing more. I spent some time abroad ... Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev rallied the revolutionary force ... It was Trotsky who was one of the organizers of the October Revolution of 1917, one of the founders of the Red Army. One of the founders and ideologists of the Comintern, a member of its Executive Committee. In the first Soviet government - the people's commissar for foreign affairs, then in 1918-1925 - the people's commissar for military and naval affairs and the chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council of the RSFSR, then the USSR. Since 1923 - the leader of the inner-party left opposition ("New Deal"). Member of the Politburo of the CPSU (b) in 1919-1926 ... And where is Lenin here, as a rallying point?
                  1. +10
                    11 January 2019 22: 12
                    Quote: Nasr
                    It was Trotsky who was one of the organizers of the October Revolution of 1917, one of the founders of the Red Army. One of the founders and ideologists of the Comintern, a member of its Executive Committee. In the first Soviet government - the people's commissar for foreign affairs, then in 1918-1925 - the people's commissar for military and naval affairs and the chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council of the RSFSR, then the USSR. Since 1923 - the leader of the inner-party left opposition ("New Deal"). Member of the Politburo of the CPSU (B.) In 1919-1926 ...

                    My dear, you scare me) It seems that you sympathize with Trotsky))) But you yourself write that "one of", do not write that "main"))) I will only express my attitude towards him (please note that I far from being an anti-Semite): in our history it is difficult to find a more Russophobic figure, he is cursed according to his merits, within the framework of the post I do not even dare to list them. I regret that Koba let him go ... Yes, by the way, if you are a Trotskyist, then the neocons are your friends) they consider themselves to be the successors of Trotsky's cause, there is a lot of fun here)
                  2. +1
                    12 January 2019 22: 50
                    Quote: Nasr
                    And where is Lenin here, as a unifier?

                    Earth to the peasants! Factories to the workers! The decree of the Earth, the NEP .... ah, yay-yay, and its ingenious term is the expropriation of the expropriated ??? It was scientific !!! in the spirit of the times !!
              2. +39
                11 January 2019 16: 11
                Quote: Nasr
                So what did Lenin build?

                A fundamentally different state, with the first in the world
                1. +14
                  11 January 2019 18: 06
                  The article is interesting, but it smelled very methodologically of eclecticism and sophistry of the scientifically untenable concept of "Dead Water" of some anonymous "Internal predictor of the USSR".

                  In other glories. The author's article smelled of the same eclecticism and sophistry of the ideology of "Dead Water" in 1992, the first edition, put by the same anonymous "Internal predictor of the USSR / Russia" in the so-called. "The concept of public security of Russia" (COB of Russia), which the "dead leaders" and their apologists from the late 1980s aspired and are striving to make a STATE ideology in the USSR / RF, acting at the same time as a kind of "Egyptian" priests in imposing their own the so-called system "truly new thinking" allegedly as a historically new social consciousness.
                  1. +27
                    11 January 2019 18: 19
                    The article is interesting, but it smelled very methodologically of the eclectic and sophistic scientifically untenable concept of "Dead Water" of some anonymous "Internal predictor of the USSR".
                    I don’t know what you found particularly interesting in the article, to be honest.
                    I saw the whining on the topic "you don't need to rock the boat", "the construction (and existence itself) in the World of a welfare state is impossible", "only were not war," passing dubious theories as unapplicable truths.
                    Mixed in a bunch of horses and people. From the comments of colleagues in the forum, who even favorably perceived the article, it is clear that the argumentation in it is confused and insufficient. In addition, the article is loose in shape and very biased.
                    Sincerely. hi
                    1. +7
                      11 January 2019 18: 45
                      Quote: Dude
                      I don’t know what you found particularly interesting in the article,

                      I wrote that
                      it smelled very methodologically <,,,> from the author's article of the same eclecticism and sophistry ideology of "Dead Water" in 1992, the first edition of some anonymous "Internal predictor of the USSR" the same anonymous "Internal predictor of the USSR / Russia" in the so-called "The Concept of Public Security of Russia" (COB of Russia), which the "dead leaders" and their apologists from the late 1980s aspired and are striving to make the STATE ideology in the USSR / RF, acting at the same time as a kind of "Egyptian" priests in the imposition of their own system of the so-called. "truly new thinking" supposedly as a historically new social consciousness.
                      1. +8
                        11 January 2019 19: 13
                        . I wrote that
                        I’m sorry, I didn’t catch it right away! wink drinks
                    2. +3
                      12 January 2019 22: 54
                      Quote: Dude
                      Mixed in a bunch of horses and people.

                      in the heap with horses and people was a failed scientist who, with his theory of passionarity, explains a lot, as it were, but does not build or predict anything. Gumilyov’s theory is scientific but not scientific.
                    3. MrK
                      +4
                      16 January 2019 11: 53
                      I agree. Moreover. Hence the inevitable companions of the revolution are civil war and devastation.))
                      There would have been no Civil War in Russia since 1918 if it had not been for the rebellion of the Whites and the intervention
                2. -20
                  11 January 2019 18: 35
                  Quote: Dude
                  Quote: Nasr
                  So what did Lenin build?

                  A fundamentally different state, with the first in the world

                  Are you about Finland? After all, only Lenin owes Finland its statehood ...
                  1. +15
                    11 January 2019 21: 34
                    No, colleague, I'm talking about another state. You can not click, because everyone understands that I didn’t mean Suomi, but Soviet Russia. laughing hi
                    You are joking, well, I, too, in the style of Master Yoda answered you.
                  2. +14
                    11 January 2019 22: 24
                    Quote: Nasr

                    Quote: Dude
                    Quote: Nasr
                    So what did Lenin build?

                    A fundamentally different state, with the first in the world

                    Are you about Finland? After all, only Lenin owes Finland its statehood ...

                    And the bourgeoisie with the interim government could keep Finland?) Lenin did not start the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia, he had already collected what had collapsed, gathered almost everything!
                  3. +9
                    11 January 2019 22: 27
                    As if in the Russian Empire, Finland had statehood, but not sovereign.
                3. +5
                  11 January 2019 20: 24

                  NasRat:
                  Wow ... And the Russian Empire did not seem to know statehood ...

                  At the end of its existence, the Russian Empire "gave birth" to three revolutions (1905-07, February and October 1917) and, as a consequence, the Civil War.
                  The essence of the article is somewhat different ...
                  1. -13
                    11 January 2019 22: 11
                    And what did the USSR "give birth to" at its sunset?
                    1. +2
                      11 January 2019 23: 07
                      yes a lot of things, the question is what are you talking about
                      1. -8
                        12 January 2019 01: 04
                        I am about the 1991 criminal revolution.
                      2. +4
                        12 January 2019 08: 14
                        Quote: Mestny
                        I am about the 1991 criminal revolution.

                        Well, it’s not the USSR that gave birth
                      3. WW2
                        -9
                        12 January 2019 09: 45
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Well, it’s not the USSR that gave birth

                        Well, you give!
                        Then who?!
                4. -2
                  13 January 2019 20: 17
                  Quote: Dude
                  Quote: Nasr
                  So what did Lenin build?

                  A fundamentally different state, with the first in the world
                  If the NEP remained "seriously and for a long time", the USSR would have won the war, and would have lived to see the war - the question is. Rather, it would be "90s +", no?
          2. +13
            11 January 2019 16: 14
            what Lenin built

            Lenin did not have time to build anything. He died. But the direction that he took in my spirit is close. Built by his followers and associates. It can be said that with their passing away, construction stopped
            1. -5
              12 January 2019 22: 05
              Lenin did not have time to build anything. He died. But the direction that he took in my spirit is close. Built by his followers and associates.
              ===============
              Only colleagues then leaned against the wall ....
            2. +5
              12 January 2019 23: 40
              Quote: igorbrsv
              Lenin did not have time to build anything. He died. But the direction that he took in my spirit is close. Built by his followers and associates. It can be said that with their passing away, construction stopped

              can i try to answer? - put aside the romance of humanism in the politics of that time. Recall that 70% of the population went barefoot and plowed horses. If you have 6 acres, imagine that you need to handle 20 with a horse and hands. And feeds from this and get dressed! The horse is not yours but the neighbor, pay for it. Pay the land rent, pay a loan last year! Besides the fact that a return to the bourgeois order brought problems back to this mass of people, we must not forget that a whole generation grew up in wars. And used to solve their problems at the cost of the life of the enemy. Go and try to deviate from the course of Lenin!
              about followers and associates - the bulk of revolutionaries are experts in overthrowing the state system! these are not engineers with scientists, but provocateurs and swindlers for whom the revolution is a social lift, but comrade Mauser with the name of revolution is a way and way of a beautiful life. Stalin is unique in that he was able to put this vinigret in relative order. Remember "calm down!" in a note to Khrushchev?
          3. +15
            11 January 2019 16: 14
            . But, Lenin nobly destroyed the state of RI - this is - Yes!

            Do not ascribe to the October Revolution (and to Lenin, respectively) what was done by the bourgeois February Revolution.
            1. +13
              11 January 2019 19: 04
              Quote: Dude
              Do not ascribe to the October Revolution (and to Lenin, respectively) what was done by the bourgeois February Revolution.

              But did he and others like him study history? They only know propaganda cliches. And only today, when the country is again on the verge of great trials, and, at this time, the elite continues to rob both the state and the people, we clearly feel that they lied to us in 1991 and continue to lie vilely.
              And the story is not black and white.
              1. +8
                11 January 2019 19: 19
                Quote: kjhg
                Quote: Dude
                Do not ascribe to the October Revolution (and to Lenin, respectively) what was done by the bourgeois February Revolution.

                But did he and others like him study history? They only know propaganda cliches. And only today, when the country is again on the verge of great trials, and, at this time, the elite continues to rob both the state and the people, we clearly feel that they lied to us in 1991 and continue to lie vilely.
                And the story is not black and white.

                The thing is that stamps also need to be able to use winked But this is given, as you can see, given "not only to everyone" laughing
                In general, the dominance of grayness is depressing. Moreover, the higher and further, the grayer ...
                But blacks always come for gray (s) ...
                1. +12
                  11 January 2019 20: 30

                  NasRat:
                  Wow ... But what was Lenin built ideal? And what did Lenin actually build? More precisely, Trotsky, because Lenin at the time of construction was already a vegetable ..
                  But, Lenin nobly destroyed the state of RI - this is - Yes!

                  Let me remind those who forgot, and especially those who did not know, and even forgot ...
                  1. -12
                    11 January 2019 20: 56
                    Pax tecum (Alexander)
                    I did not overthrow the king, but liberals ...
                    wassatHa ha ha ha laughing good
                    fool
                    1. +10
                      11 January 2019 21: 12

                      Observer2014:
                      ... Ha ha ha ha ... laughing good

                      Is knowledge of history really bad?

                      For that fool argue, wise guy!
                      1. -17
                        11 January 2019 21: 19
                        Pax tecum (Alexander)
                        Is knowledge of history really bad? fool l argue, wise guy!
                        With a knowledge of history by five! On the Soviet scale .And this fool So it’s not translatable. It's an abscess. fool . Well, in any case, at least I myself read what and how in that figure was painted?
                      2. +3
                        11 January 2019 21: 38
                        Yes, like you both said the same thing!)))
                        Quote: Observer2014
                        Pax tecum (Alexander)
                        Is knowledge of history really bad? fool l argue, wise guy!
                        With a knowledge of history by five! On the Soviet scale .And this fool So it’s not translatable. It's an abscess. fool . Well, in any case, at least I myself read what and how in that figure was painted?
                  2. -5
                    12 January 2019 00: 50
                    Judging by the photo with a log, this is a photoshop of the head of Ulyanov - Lenin on the body of Alexander Zass. I don’t really believe that Lenin could carry a log in this way, but the fact that Zass was carrying a horse is for sure. wink
                    1. +10
                      12 January 2019 09: 12
                      Well yes. Just a parody of a famous photograph ... to create a working mood, so to speak, and text in the same style.
                      Observer2014 (Sergey (Russia)):
                      With a knowledge of history by five! On the Soviet scale .And this fool So it’s not translatable. It's an abscess. fool . Well, in any case, at least I myself read what and how in that figure was painted?

                      Well, and fellow Observer2014, really disgraced with knowledge of historical facts.
                      Yes, and with discretion and education, also, not at odds.

                      PSPersonal for Observer2014.
                      Rudeness is a negative property of a person’s character, to cross the boundaries of established norms and rules of behavior in society, with the aim of attacking in the form of a verbal attack in order to destroy the other’s inner balance and mental state under impunity, anonymity.
              2. +4
                13 January 2019 00: 12
                Quote: kjhg
                at this time, the elite continues to rob both the state and the people, we clearly feel that they lied to us in 1991 and continue to lie vilely.

                The elite is a part of the people that is an example ... The elite serves the people and does not rob. And he’s not lying. What is happening in our country, Lenin once called neocolonialism. And what you call the Elite are just governors.
            2. WW2
              -12
              12 January 2019 09: 52
              Quote: Dude
              Do not ascribe to the October Revolution (and to Lenin, respectively) what was done by the bourgeois February Revolution.

              Explore the meaning of the term "revolution". And stop writing nonsense like "October Revolution". There was no such historical phenomenon. This is a Bolshevik fiction.
              With the February Revolution is also not easy. Actually, it happened in March 1917. So if we look at the previous period, then the February-March maximum.
              And the "October" reactionary coup, it is also not an October one. And January 1918 with the previous period, the maximum is October-January.
              1. +5
                12 January 2019 10: 37
                Quote: WW2
                Explore the meaning of the term "revolution". And stop writing nonsense like "October Revolution". There was no such historical phenomenon. This is a Bolshevik fiction.

                a social upheaval, mass extra-legal actions aimed at radical changes in the political system itself, and not a simple replacement of one ruling elite with another
                1. WW2
                  -12
                  12 January 2019 11: 09
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                  a social upheaval, mass extra-legal actions aimed at radical changes in the political system itself, and not a simple replacement of one ruling elite with another

                  The most important thing was forgotten to write, "a cardinal change with" MOVEMENT of public relations UP. "That is, their development.
                  And there is also a change in the political system with "MOVEMENT of public relations DOWN" (ie, their degradation). This is not called a revolution, but a reactionary coup.
                  Such reactionary coups in particular occurred in Russia in October 1917 - January 1918. And in the USSR in the late 20s.
                  1. +6
                    12 January 2019 11: 25
                    Quote: WW2
                    And there is also a change in the political system with "MOVEMENT of public relations DOWN" (ie, their degradation). This is not called a revolution, but a reactionary coup.

                    kindly full definition
                    1. WW2
                      -8
                      12 January 2019 12: 11
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      kindly full definition

                      Why do you need it?
                      1. +2
                        12 January 2019 13: 10
                        Quote: WW2
                        Why do you need it?

                        then, that you declare that the October revolution is not a revolution, socialism is not socialism, so give the correct definitions so that we can understand why we are not right
                      2. WW2
                        -9
                        12 January 2019 13: 20
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        that you declare that the October revolution is not a revolution,

                        Of course not. Typical reactionary coup. It was a bourgeois (nascent) society, it became feudal (Soviet). The movement of society one step down is obvious. What can be doubts?
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        socialism is not socialism

                        Of course, "Soviet socialism" had nothing to do with the traditional understanding of the term "socialism".
                        This is ridiculous, "socialism" (traditional), this is a fairly high phase in the development of bourgeois society (far from its first phase). The same "Swedish socialism", for example.
                        And here the society of slaves (slave farming society) in the USSR and supposedly also lives in socialism. This is not even funny. What was common between the life of the Swedes and the life of fellow citizens? Never mind.
                      3. +2
                        12 January 2019 14: 19
                        Quote: WW2
                        The movement of society one step down is obvious. What can be doubts?

                        first give a definition of revolution is not yours but according to the textbook
                        second what is the downward movement?
                        Quote: WW2
                        The same "Swedish socialism", for example.

                        appeared precisely due to the changes that have occurred in our country
                        Quote: WW2
                        And here is the society of slaves (slave society)

                        give a definition of slave society and give a comparison with the USSR
                        By the way, did you live, work in the USSR?
                      4. WW2
                        -3
                        12 January 2019 15: 32
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        first give a definition of revolution is not yours but according to the textbook

                        Internet to help.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        the second is the downward movement

                        In the degradation of other relations from bourgeois to feudal. Feudal, I recall just in case, they are below the bourgeois. Preceded by the bourgeois.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        appeared precisely due to the changes that have occurred in our country

                        You should know what big saliva the Swedes don't care about "your country".
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Define a slave society

                        Internet to help.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        and give a comparison with the USSR

                        I'm not even going to do this with someone who does not recognize the obvious things.
                      5. +2
                        12 January 2019 15: 37
                        Quote: WW2
                        Internet to help.

                        that is, you are simply an ordinary balabol who doesn’t know anything, but with show-offs to heaven
                        Quote: WW2
                        In the degradation of other relations from bourgeois to feudal. Feudal, I recall just in case, they are below the bourgeois. Preceded by the bourgeois.

                        Once again, WHAT SPECIFICLY degradation ?!
                        can't answer don't get smart
                        Quote: WW2
                        I'm not even going to do this with someone who does not recognize the obvious things.

                        Sorry, but you are an ordinary troll who doesn’t know anything, grabbed the top in magazines a la twinkle and writhes out of himself
                      6. WW2
                        -6
                        12 January 2019 15: 51
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        that is, you are simply an ordinary balabol who doesn’t know anything, but with show-offs to heaven

                        I am not your servant. Internet to help.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Once again, WHAT SPECIFICLY degradation ?!

                        Political economy and social science to help.
                        You already tired me, you don’t know elementary things, but for some reason you get involved in an argument.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Sorry, but you are an ordinary troll who doesn’t know anything, grabbed the top in magazines a la twinkle and writhes out of himself

                        Yeah. You, a person who does not even know what an OEF, revolution, etc. more visible.

                        Educational program for preschool children is closed today.
                      7. +2
                        12 January 2019 17: 00
                        Quote: WW2
                        I am not your servant.

                        I would not have taken you as a servant
                        Quote: WW2
                        You already tired me, you don’t know elementary things, but for some reason you get involved in an argument.

                        miracle, I have already bumped you into the ignorance of definitions a hundred times
                        Quote: WW2
                        Yeah. You, a person who does not even know what an OEF, revolution, etc. more visible.

                        Educational program for preschool children is closed today.

                        so you’ve shown your stupidity, you crowed nonsense and how you were asked to make out on examples, quickly such as the Internet to help
                        to the garden mediocre troll
                      8. WW2
                        -6
                        12 January 2019 19: 07
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        I already bumped you into the ignorance of definitions a hundred times

                        You are lying.
                      9. +3
                        12 January 2019 20: 53
                        Quote: WW2
                        You are lying.

                      10. +2
                        13 January 2019 22: 48
                        Quote: WW2
                        The movement of society one step down is obvious. What can be doubts?

                        “Culture has no future here and lives on the reputation of the pre-war era. We expect civilization to be saved from Russia, ”George Bernard Shaw.
                        The newspaper Pravda, April 18, 1935
                      11. WW2
                        -4
                        13 January 2019 23: 30
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        We expect civilization to be saved from Russia, ”George Bernard Shaw.
                        The newspaper Pravda, April 18, 1935

                        What are you talking about?
                      12. +1
                        14 January 2019 08: 14
                        this is to "degradation" although if yours is possible without quotes
              2. +7
                13 January 2019 04: 52
                Quote: WW2
                Quote: Dude
                Do not ascribe to the October Revolution (and to Lenin, respectively) what was done by the bourgeois February Revolution.

                Explore the meaning of the term "revolution". And stop writing nonsense like "October Revolution". There was no such historical phenomenon. This is a Bolshevik fiction.
                With the February Revolution is also not easy. Actually, it happened in March 1917. So if we look at the previous period, then the February-March maximum.
                And the "October" reactionary coup, it is also not an October one. And January 1918 with the previous period, the maximum is October-January.

                How everything is started at you! feel I don’t even know what can be said when a person denies historical facts and the most obvious things ...
                1. WW2
                  -7
                  13 January 2019 10: 45
                  Quote: Dude
                  I don’t even know what can be said when a person denies historical facts and the most obvious things ...

                  Learn the story. Then maybe something will be understood.
          4. +1
            11 January 2019 23: 22
            Uncle Petya are you ???
        2. +23
          11 January 2019 16: 11
          Quote: Altona
          Wow. Was the Russian Empire an ideal state?

          One of the famous politicians in Germany, once said, the USSR was the highest embodiment of Eurasian civilization. And only half a century after its disappearance, many understand the truth of these words.
          Now, according to the article ... the author can scientifically approach, not scientifically, this question, but ... but excuse the very appearance of the USSR, as a state is not historical nonsense? Who could have thought and assumed this in a drunken delirium in those days?
          So all the conclusions of the author can be safely lowered into the toilet.
          The bottom line is that sooner or later, but the states bordering with us will unite around us. So it was ALWAYS historically. Why? Yes, because they are all weak, and therefore they need protection, both military and political and economic. I repeat, it was ALWAYS historically so.
          And the emergence of a new reincarnation of the USSR is defined. Of course, the ideology will be different, but the essence of this union will not change.
          Question-When? Here I will answer with the words of the characters from the movie "The Three Musketeers" - maybe in 20 years, or maybe in 10 ... or maybe in three or four centuries!
          1. +5
            11 January 2019 18: 22
            For others to join Russia, our country must again become an EMPIRE, to tempt the peoples and rulers of neighbors, we need an imperial ideology (it doesn’t matter especially with emphasis on ideology like the USSR or protection and, or raising the standard of living as RI)
            The empire should be both at the stage of becoming RI attractive, bear the temptation.
            And then they will reach for protection behind the rays of the lobes.
            1. +6
              11 January 2019 20: 38
              Or like this...
              1. +5
                11 January 2019 22: 30
                I would say that the outlines of the Russian Empire in 1870 are shown in this figure is not entirely correct. For example, the Kuril Islands have been part of Japan for five years.
            2. +2
              11 January 2019 21: 32
              RI was different from other Empires, where the mother country robbed colonies. Therefore, be afraid of the objection of RI in the West, because they think of our Empire as their own - to be afraid of becoming a colony!
          2. -8
            11 January 2019 20: 51
            "And only half a century after his disappearance, many understand the truth of these words."

            I don’t know who understands what, but I remember the seats for which my parents stood in line for 82 for a month, every day I went to roll call so as not to fly out of it (line) and as a result I bought chairs, but not those wanted to.
            Nobody really needs such a "supreme embodiment" :)
            And Western politicians did not live under the Union (unlike even me) and do not know the "joy" of "the best state in the world," and therefore they mold whatever.
            1. +14
              11 January 2019 21: 27
              Quote: Commihunter
              I don’t know who understands what, but I remember the seats for which my parents stood in line for 82 for a month, every day I went to roll call so as not to fly out of it (line) and as a result I bought chairs, but not those wanted to.
              Nobody really needs such a "supreme embodiment" :)

              You certainly do not need to, because you are from a generation that without rags, gadgets and iPhones can’t even imagine life.
              You do not answer for all, dear. From your words, there was no progress in the USSR, everything froze in the 80's. It’s like you exchanged your country for cheap jeans, chewing gum and iPhones, after which, from 3 in the morning, in lines like a herd of rams, crowd. They would look at themselves from the side ...
              Under the USSR, there was confidence in the future. And now do you have such confidence? Under the USSR, the citizens of this country were respected. And now, half the world holds us for barbarians. In the USSR, everyone had work, free apartments, free education (the best in the world), free medicine ... and now for one trip to the doctor we sometimes give a monthly salary. In the USSR, the purchase of gasoline was not even included in the expense item, since it was penny.
              And yes, under the USSR there were no Ukrainians, Armenians, Moldavians, Georgians ... but there were SOVIET PEOPLE. And at the same time it was the most reading nation! Notice, reading Gogol, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, and not like cats and food, with a moronic look of downs.
              Of course you don’t need all this. Because you are from a generation of consumers, and not from a generation of creators, creators and discoverers.
              1. -10
                11 January 2019 23: 30
                "From your words, there was no progress in the USSR, everything froze in the 80s."
                The USSR began to lag behind in the 69th year, when, instead of developing their own computers, they decided to purchase the IBM architecture. The machines were purchased, up to the collapse. Kiev "Arsenal" on German machine tools Carl Zeiss AG made military optics "unparalleled", they did not have their own, they did not know how to fine manufacture. I can name you many more things of foreign firms (mainly machine tools and some equipment) that the USSR bought from the "Decaying West". And in the end, I could not even copy them by reverse engineering, because in the West, technologies had already gone beyond the understanding of Soviet engineers. By the way, this is still being heard around the CIS.

                "Do you have such confidence now?"
                Personally, I have

                "Under the USSR, everyone had a job, free apartments, free education (the best in the world)"
                The work for which you did not pay extra, you look at how much at the same time there was an average salary in the USA, England, France, Germany and compare with the Soviet one.
                And the Soviet apartments were state-owned, you could be evicted from there at any moment, which is why by the way they had to be privatized to ordinary people in the 90s.
                Do not tell me about education, I found him yet. Yes, and in the same Ukraine / Russia / Belarus, in fact, it is still such, "best" since many teachers have been teaching since those times :)

                "Because you are from a generation of consumers, not a generation of creators, creators, and discoverers."
                Yes, I’m not from a generation of nonsuns, collective farmers drunks and a non-initiative gray mass or some kind of KGB scum. And I am proud of this, since I, as a free person, can be a creator, creator and discoverer. Look how many sensible things people from the CIS invented! In the USSR, they would have rotted in some sort of zachuhany scientific research institute, or in prison.
                1. +9
                  11 January 2019 23: 59
                  Quote: Commihunter
                  I as a free person can be a creator, creator and discoverer.

                  What did he create, hunter Mykola?
                  1. -8
                    12 January 2019 00: 15
                    Enough for your own apartment, car, and land for the cottage.
                    This is good capitalism: the one who works "including" his head and has a little luck - becomes rich, who works and includes the head but has no luck - secured, the one who just works - well-fed and contented.
                    And only the red-bellied lazy people scream what needs to be taken and divided :) because they are now hungry :)
                    1. +8
                      12 January 2019 00: 24
                      Quote: Commihunter
                      he who simply works is well-fed and satisfied.

                      Go, work for the minimum wage, I will look at you, well-fed and satisfied. And then on such a well-fed pension.
                      Quote: Commihunter
                      And only the red-bellied idlers

                      Shut up.
                      1. -12
                        12 January 2019 00: 38
                        So who is your doctor if you are only enough to work for the minimum wage?
                        Find a normal job if you have straight arms OR brains. And if there is neither one nor the other, then yes, it remains only to remember and cry about the Scoop.
                      2. +9
                        12 January 2019 00: 46
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        So who is your doctor if you are only enough to work for the minimum wage?

                        I know places where you can’t find work for the minimum wage.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        only about the scoop to remember and cry.

                        Quote: Commihunter
                        Enough for your own apartment, car, and land for the cottage.

                        All this is free, except for the car. And the land under the dacha was almost shoved into us by force. And apartments were only taken from the convicted, or rather, they were written out.
                      3. -10
                        12 January 2019 00: 59
                        "I know places where you won't find a job even for the minimum wage."

                        Leave such places, again. Look at yourself from the outside: "I will not leave the depressed region, I will plow for a penny and cry what a bad life." Isn't it funny?
                        People in other countries go and work at construction sites or on the field to provide for their families.

                        "All this is free, except for the car."
                        Yeah, and how long did you have to wait, do not remind? :) They waited for a car for 5 years, and this is only in the queue itself. And not only the car, I wrote about the chairs above. A month to wait, ride on roll call to buy two chair beds.
                        And this is even if you do not take into account the fact that people in the USSR paid a penny. For your work, the same American received more at times.
                        Example: in the USSR, the average salary was 120-150 rubles in the 1970s. In the United States at that time, the average salary was $ 515.
                        If we take it at the official rate of 67 kopecks per dollar, it turns out that the Soviet citizen received 179-223 dollars. And this if you believe the official rate. And in the 1970s, foreign exchange agents did not buy dollars at 67 kopecks at all :))) There, if real to count the course (so I'm definitely not sure how much he was in the 70s) then even less will work out.

                        And so it turns out that without paying extra for its citizens, the country gave them "free" (state, you had no rights to them) apartments, as if from itself. It's strange that you don't understand this, by the way. These are the foundations of economics.
                      4. +8
                        12 January 2019 01: 18
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        Leave such places again.

                        I have reasons not to leave. Like many others. You said nothing about pensions.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        Yeah, and how long did you have to wait, do not remind? :)

                        I do not recall, it was not interesting to me.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        A month to wait, ride on roll call to buy two chair beds.

                        Never stood in line for furniture. Having received a new apartment, immediately furnished.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        in the USSR, the average salary was 120-150 rubles in the 1970 year. In the United States at this time, the average salary was 515 dollars.
                        If we take the official rate of 67 kopecks per dollar, then it turns out that the Soviet citizen received 179-223 dollars. And this if you believe the official rate. And in the 1970, the currency traders did not buy dollars at 67 cents at all :)))

                        This dispute can be dragged on indefinitely. If we take technology, or consumer goods, then "there" they were cheaper. If we take medicine, housing and communal services, transport services, then it was definitely cheaper to live in the USSR.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        And so it turns out that without paying extra for its citizens, the country gave them "free" (state, you had no rights to them) apartments, as if from itself. It's strange that you don't understand this, by the way. These are the foundations of economics.

                        And I, in your opinion, just mentioned the minimum wage? I perfectly remember how our cleaning lady and her son were given an apartment. Now, calculate how much time, she can afford to buy an apartment, say for two million. Given that she needs to put on shoes, get dressed, etc. How to count - say. And I'll sleep for now.
                      5. -10
                        12 January 2019 01: 34
                        "I have reasons not to leave. Like many others."
                        Well then, do not complain. My friend in the DPR was able to find a side job, and I made good money by local standards while the war was spinning around. He wrote comments on the Internet for money. The 43rd year was a peasant, by the way. The main thing is to have a desire and brains as well as work to apply, and money will be.

                        "If we take medicine, housing and communal services, transport services, then it was definitely cheaper to live in the USSR."
                        You know how to count and read, huh? But honestly. I gave you the NUMBERS, and for obvious reasons you cannot refute them. Figures that in the USSR the average salary in the 1970s was TWO TIMES LOWER than in the United States. Saving on each citizen 50% of his wages, the state could play "free". in the 1980s, the average salary in the United States was already $ 1080, and in the USSR, 120-150 rubles remained, here already Scoop paid only 25% of the market wages. Therefore, one should not be surprised that in the 90s, salaries overnight became 20-25 bucks. They just came into market equilibrium.

                        It's as if you worked for me for a month, I paid you 25% so that you get it from my competitor and then buy you a ride for a month and pay for utilities and say, "I gave it to you, love me." That is, for your own money :)

                        How to count - say
                        He won’t just buy, if he will be a cleaner in the province. And if she has the willpower to go to the capital, to learn the language and manners, then she will turn from a cleaning woman into a maid, who receives completely different money. Or go abroad and earn money there.
                      6. +9
                        12 January 2019 09: 22
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        He wrote comments on the Internet for money.

                        Well, I write articles. For money.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        You know how to count and read, eh? Only honestly. I brought you the NUMBERS, and for obvious reasons you cannot refute them.

                        All this crap - numbers. So, for a pump worth 25 rubles, they gave 2 a VCR abroad, and if we are talking about numbers, then modern Russia has dropped below Honduras in terms of salary.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        And if she has the willpower to go to the capital, to learn the language and manners,

                        If she has a crocodile-like face, then no language with manners will help. And this does not negate the fact that anyone in the USSR could get a hut, regardless of income level.
                      7. -7
                        12 January 2019 09: 26
                        Vladimir hi

                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Well, I write articles. For money

                        Drop links in PM, read with interest.

                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        If she has a crocodile-like face, then

                        There are no ugly women stop laughing

                        But seriously - with me such fears work with me ... not all, of course, but still ...

                        There are in nature positions (professions), on which a woman’s usefulness is absolutely independent of, ahem, the exterior.

                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        in the USSR, anyone could get a hut

                        And he might not have received it. And could get to retirement. Lottery with request
                      8. +4
                        12 January 2019 12: 49
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Drop links in PM, read with interest.

                        I’m sorry, I’m writing for sale, by orders. On Advego. And where they are placed there, I have a drum. There, advertising and information is mostly uninteresting.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        together with me such fears work ...

                        Face control. wink
                        Quote: Consultant
                        And he might not have received it. And could get to retirement. Lottery with
                        The lottery has less chance.
                      9. -3
                        12 January 2019 12: 56
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Face control

                        Not ... logisticians, accountants ...

                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        The chance of a lottery is less

                        That is yes. But the principle is the same request
                      10. 0
                        12 January 2019 13: 11
                        Quote: Consultant
                        But the principle is the same

                        Our company constantly built houses. In the home, the construction team was. There was no lottery there. Although, no, my dad was playing cards on which floor to live. Produl, received the fourth, instead of the third.
                      11. -6
                        12 January 2019 12: 36
                        "then modern Russia in terms of wages fell below Honduras"
                        Now the median salary in Russia is 25 thousand rubles, which is about 400 tons. In the USSR, given the real exchange rate (in 1984m 6-7 rubles per dollar), salaries were at the level of 20 bucks. Progress 50 times, as for me perfectly.

                        And this if we take into account the fact that now you do not have to stand in huge lines, get a deficit through friends, save up for some things for decades. There is money - I went and bought what my heart desires.
                        You don’t need to fly from Kharkov to Tashkent to buy fur coats (yes, yes, the real facts from my scoop teachers, though they didn’t understand how their beloved Scoop dropped it), as the full-time planned economy sent the same number of fur coats to Tashkent and Kharkov :)))

                        And this does not negate the fact that anyone in the USSR could get a hut, regardless of income level.
                        Yes, the apartment on which, in fact, everyone earned himself, not earning a full salary (in the 1980s they received only 25% of their market labor cost, I will remind) and at the same time not having the rights to this housing. Actually, because of the second point, people had to privatize their apartments, because there were no documents on the property.
                      12. -5
                        12 January 2019 14: 25
                        I am glad how the fans of the USSR are minus They have nothing to say in essence, except for their mantras "free apartments, free education, free medicine"
                        And when you start to explain to them that nothing exists for free, and all of their medicine and study apartments are just a consequence of the fact that they themselves paid a penny at work, the result is obvious - anger at the truth and cons :)))

                        Nothing, "dear", the scoop has burst, now your children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren can live by their own mind and work, and be rewarded according to the efforts made. Isn't this the highest grace and justice?
                      13. +6
                        12 January 2019 18: 58
                        Quote: Commihunter

                        I am glad how the fans of the USSR are minus They have nothing to say in essence, except for their mantras "free apartments, free education, free medicine"
                        And when you start to explain to them that nothing exists for free, and all their apartments are medicine and study just a consequence of the fact that they themselves paid a penny at work

                        Here it is!)))) But I thought .... And then, my dear, why now they pay a penny, which is not enough even for food? probably for this we have some huge privileges?))) Speak and don’t talk, you’re not convincingly lying!))))
          3. +13
            11 January 2019 21: 05

            Here, a worthy statement ...
            1. -12
              11 January 2019 22: 24
              These are those friends, comrades and brothers who beat each other in communal apartments? Or "made a career at work"?
              I remember how. For example, I saw a queue for vodka, where not animals, not things, but proud Soviet people, members of the Soviet family society, for several bottles of the state drink smashed each other’s face into blood.
              The worst thing about the destruction of the USSR is not what Semin writes. The worst thing is the loss of faith in the goal under the USSR. Because the goal was explained in a deadly cynical language - we are building communism, where everyone will have everything they want.
              1. +3
                13 January 2019 22: 41
                Did you see it on TV? And now they’re killing for cutting the car. Progress however ....
            2. -15
              11 January 2019 22: 37
              Akhineya, from a brother who did not live in the USSR, and a family, when for a housing problem everyone was ready to cut their throats in the throat. Yes, the pawns of each other were respected, and the party bosses with these pawns played checkers.
              1. +6
                11 January 2019 23: 09
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                all throats were ready to cut each other.

                but at the same time went to a neighbor for salt or matches
              2. +8
                11 January 2019 23: 39
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                family, when they were ready to cut each other's throats for a housing issue.

                Isn’t it right now? Something has changed for the better?)))
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                Yes, pawns respected each other, and party bonuses played drafts with these pawns.

                And now, even pawns do not respect each other, and the nuvarish even play zapadlo in them, the scale is not that))))
              3. +6
                12 January 2019 00: 12
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                Akhineya, from a brother who did not live in the USSR, and a family, when for a housing problem everyone was ready to cut their throats in the throat. Yes, the pawns of each other were respected, and the party bosses with these pawns played checkers.


                You, apparently, are the author ... I don’t even know what to tell you. You are either miserable, having lost his mind, or an ignoramus and balabol who has lost conscience.

                You are referring the entire article to Lev Nikolaevich Gumilyov and are not able to quote him correctly.

                ... Well, what am I intellectual - I have a profession, and I love my homeland!


                But after this your comment, in my opinion, you are still an ignoramus and a balabol who has lost his conscience.
                1. -10
                  12 January 2019 01: 16
                  Well, well, calmer.
                  You should not use this kind of argument. You perfectly understand that this is not so.
                  What does this change in the quote you quoted? Nothing. on the contrary, it adds more precisely to the meaning referred to by the author of the article.
                  Your reaction resembles an insult to a strong interlocutor with arguments. And you probably did not live in the USSR, unlike.
                  And you know about him only from the Internet from real balabol in the style of party propaganda of the times of Brezhnev.
                  Believe me, for the rest of the participants this is no less obvious - no matter how much you would assure us of the opposite. Because those who really lived there - at least now they don’t argue. but just keep quiet.
                  Because they have seen everything in this very USSR. Not from books, not from the stories of "historians" like Yulin, not from the files of the newspaper Pravda, but after experiencing, let's say, the diversity of socialism in the USSR in my own life.
                  Diversity. think about it.
                  No one says that everything was badly decided.
                  They are trying to tell you that, well, everything was definitely not there either. And that the amount of bad turned out to be much more good as a result, which led the system into the abyss.
              4. +8
                12 January 2019 10: 09
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                Akhineya, from a brother who did not live in the USSR, and a family, when for a housing problem everyone was ready to cut their throats in the throat. Yes, the pawns of each other were respected, and the party bosses with these pawns played checkers.

                The author is in the service of the bourgeois ?!
                1. 0
                  12 January 2019 16: 25
                  in a neighboring apartment in Moscow, my sister’s sister threw from the balcony (1974god !!!!) because of the apartment mother did not want to share with him .....
                  1. 0
                    12 January 2019 18: 33
                    Quote: your1970
                    in a neighboring apartment in Moscow, my sister’s sister threw from the balcony (1974god !!!!) because of the apartment mother did not want to share with him .....

                    Well, what does this prove? Besides the fact that people are placed in inhuman conditions, and the fact that many have changed their minds under new conditions, selling their conscience for money?
                    1. +1
                      12 January 2019 19: 10
                      Quote: free
                      Well, what does this prove? Besides the fact that people are placed in inhuman conditions, and the fact that many have changed their minds under new conditions, selling their conscience for money?

                      Absolutely! They put the people in bestial living conditions, in a stall, this is the main reason for the demographic decline. In the old days, every born son received land allotment from the community, and after the wedding a hut was built or a hut (it depended on the area), we do not take serfs into account, there a lot of it depended on the landlord. But in today's conditions, it’s just the time to envy RI serfs! All this is sad ...
                      1. -4
                        14 January 2019 08: 24
                        Quote: free
                        Well, what does this prove? Besides the fact that people are placed in inhuman conditions, and the fact that many have changed their minds under new conditions, selling their conscience for money?

                        Quote: Daronya Grebenkov
                        Absolutely! They put the people in bestial living conditions, in a stall, this is the main reason for the demographic decline.

                        For stubborn horned - it was at 1974 !!!!!whom then SOVIET power in inhuman and bestial conditions set ????
                        fool fool fool fool
            3. +1
              11 January 2019 22: 37
              [quote = Pax tecum]
              Yes, Alexander! This is the whole point) Thank you!
          4. +8
            11 January 2019 21: 28
            I agree that in certain conditions, much is possible. And science beyond grandeur can prove that white is black! I see the problem in the fact that the new Russian Empire (and not the USSR) is built according to the Western model: the metropolis-colony. They are building not in the interests of the people and without taking into account the mentality. The USSR that Stalin wanted to build is very close to me and very scary for those who are used to rob nations.
            1. -11
              11 January 2019 22: 28
              In such cases, it is usually recommended to ask those. who then really lived.
              Not a party leader, not a director of Gortorg, and not even his driver, but a hard worker.
              There are very few of them left, but so far there are.
              But how they will not remain at all - here agitators about the beautiful Stalinist USSR will flood all ears with their lies.
              1. +4
                11 January 2019 23: 10
                Quote: Mestny

                In such cases, it is usually recommended to ask those. who then really lived.

                my grandmother lived
                Quote: Mestny
                they will flood all ears with their lies.

                but specifically it is possible - what lies that flood the ears?
                1. -8
                  12 January 2019 01: 23
                  Yes please.
                  "In the USSR, everything was done for an ordinary person."
                  Lies.
                  It was done. But not everything, not for everyone, and of different quality.
                  "There was order in the USSR under Stalin"
                  Lies. They tried to restore this order, but even archival documents of that period confirm the existence of a monstrous mess, theft and incompetence.
                  1. +7
                    12 January 2019 08: 13
                    Quote: Mestny
                    "In the USSR, everything was done for an ordinary person."
                    Lies.

                    firstly, where did you find such a slogan?
                    secondly and what exactly is a lie?
                    Quote: Mestny
                    "There was order in the USSR under Stalin"

                    will you attribute all quotes from modern newspapers to the slogans of the USSR ?!
              2. +2
                14 January 2019 08: 42
                Quote: Mestny
                But how they will not remain at all - here agitators about the beautiful Stalinist USSR will flood all ears with their lies.

                you can not separate Stalin from the people who lived in the USSR! But the people did not get sugar. In the early 30s there was a generation that was born and grew up in wars and revolutions, which became disillusioned with the church, the king, and governments, did not believe in words and was used to holding weapons in their hands and submit to force.
          5. -1
            12 January 2019 16: 23
            Quote: NEXUS
            And the emergence of a new reincarnation of the USSR is defined. Of course ideology will be different,but essence of this union Will not change.
            Question-When? Here I will answer with the words of the characters from the movie "The Three Musketeers" - maybe in 20 years, or maybe in 10 ... or maybe in three or four centuries!
            -if ideology will be anothersorry - but it will be already not socialism and not USSR (which is "socialist")
        3. +7
          11 January 2019 17: 06
          Was the Russian empire an ideal state?

          And the USSR was the perfect state? No, I was not. There can be no perfect states.
          1. +10
            11 January 2019 21: 01
            Plate:
            Was the USSR an ideal state? ...

            It seems that it was an ideal state, especially during its dawn ...



            1. -13
              11 January 2019 22: 45
              The problem is that Stalin was not a communist, he was rather an anti-communist, because he defeated a real communist, Trotsky, he implemented the ideas of Eurasians, whom he was familiar with as opponents, but armed himself with ideas. Stalin has nothing to do with the late USSR, he was cursed in the USSR.
              1. WW2
                -5
                11 January 2019 23: 37
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                The problem is that Stalin was not a communist, he was more likely an anti-communist

                You are confusing the "old Bolsheviks" (those who at first seemed to be Social Democrats, and then became the RCP (b) eshniks) with the communists. Dzhugashvili really could not be called a real "old Bolshevik" (he never really was). He was the leader of the so-called. "renovationists". Ie "new Bolsheviks" or simply "Bolsheviks" as they were most often called (VKP (b) eshnikov).
                These are representatives of a completely different ideology, with the "old Bolsheviks" they had very little in common.
                Well, at least for a start, the RCP (b) eshniki longed for "communism" throughout the world, and the VKP (b) eshniks for "socialism" in a single country. Etc.
                Communists (KPSSniks), these are also others, not Bolsheviks (VKP (b) eshniki).
              2. -2
                11 January 2019 23: 46
                Victor, I totally agree here!
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                Stalin has nothing to do with the late USSR, he was cursed in the USSR.

                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                The problem is that Stalin was not a communist, he was more likely an anti-communist, because he defeated the real communist Trotsky,

                Here I partially agree that Trotsky was not a real communist, but a real Zionist under the guise of a communist
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                in fact, he introduced the ideas of the Eurasians, whom he was familiar with as opponents, but then, clashing with Trotsky, armed himself with their ideas.

                Here you are right too.
              3. +8
                12 January 2019 10: 06
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                The problem is that Stalin was not a communist, he was rather an anti-communist, because he defeated a real communist, Trotsky, he implemented the ideas of Eurasians, whom he was familiar with as opponents, but armed himself with ideas. Stalin has nothing to do with the late USSR, he was cursed in the USSR.

                Justify. Anything but just words.
              4. +1
                17 January 2019 21: 03
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                he was cursed in the USSR.

                My mother told me that people were crying at home on the street ... about his death. And not only from her, I heard it. Gorbachev is cursed with us. Khrushchev was removed before the curse. What about Stalin's anti-communism is a philosophical question. He did not beat some presumptuous "communists".

                It was recalled that before people traveled to Moscow and it was believed that everyone should visit the Mausoleum at least once in their life. If I’m in Moscow, I’ll put 2 cloves.
                1. 019
                  -2
                  17 January 2019 21: 27
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  My mother told me that people were crying at home on the street .... about his death.

                  There are enough fools everywhere.
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Khrushchev managed to take off before the curse.

                  And the USSR lost the chance to become "the first China".
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Gorbachev is cursed with us.

                  Brezhnev and the whole Politburo squad must be cursed, not Gorbachev.
                  That's the darkness, just amazing.
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  If I’m in Moscow, I’ll put 2 cloves.

                  Better for children to buy something. And then there will be no shame. If shame still remains.
                  1. +1
                    17 January 2019 22: 35
                    Quote: 019
                    There are enough fools everywhere.

                    I did not insult your mother and grandmother. Although if there are enough fools everywhere, then smart ones, judging by your comment, are in short supply.
                    Quote: 019
                    Khrushchev managed to take off before the curse.

                    And the USSR lost the chance to become "the first China".

                    The USSR lost its pace, not because Khrushchev was removed, but because it had been set earlier. By the way, Khrushchev destroyed relations with all the eastern Communist parties by a proposal to send them Stalin's coffin to Beijing. .
                    Quote: 019
                    Brezhnev and the whole Politburo squad should be damned

                    In unofficial conversations, Brezhnev always summed up the conversation to the following: "comrades need to work better." He was not a bad person, but sick and not an intellectual. Suslov is a gray eminence who is slowly killing the development of the socialist system through improperly organized propaganda
                    1. 019
                      -1
                      17 January 2019 23: 11
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      I did not insult your mother and grandmother.

                      And I didn't insult them. Just in a colloquial form he duplicated the medical term "idiot". This is such a disease.
                      Or are those who weep for the death of their chief tormentor not called so?
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      Although if there are enough fools everywhere, then smart ones, judging by your comment, are in short supply.

                      You see. And write that you do not insult.
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      The USSR lost its pace, not because Khrushchev was removed, but because it had been set earlier.

                      Is it necessary to write nonsense?
                      Here are just a brief summary:
                      1. Khrushchev created nuclear parity with the United States. No, not a nuclear bomb. And the means of delivery.
                      And Dzhugashvili could use this bomb only under his own ass. To spite everyone. It is a pity that he did not go to Tierra del Fuego and did not do so.
                      2. Khrushchev in 1960 promoted the 20-year development program for Siberia. This program feeds you to this day. Oil and gas from Russia from there.
                      It would be possible to continue, but I will not.
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      By the way, Khrushchev destroyed relations with all the eastern Communist parties by a proposal to send them Stalin's coffin to Beijing.

                      Yes, to hell with them. All together, in bulk. Because they were just riddlers.
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      In informal conversations, Brezhnev always summed up the conversation to the conclusion that "comrades need to work better"

                      Why didn’t he start with himself?
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      He was a good person, but ill and not intellectual.

                      So what for then he was needed for so long at the head of the USSR?
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      Suslov is the gray cardinal who is slowly killing the development of the socialist system through improperly organized propaganda.

                      Dear, that which itself was dying, can, of course, be pushed to death. But the main reason will not be in the pusher. And in the non-viability of the pushed.
                      The rapidly decaying USSR was supposed to glue fins back in the mid-50s. But the Bolsheviks (they should not be confused with the population of the USSR) were lucky; in 1941, 2MB (September 24.09.1941, 35) came to the territory of the USSR. This extended the agony of the USSR for another XNUMX years.
                      1. 0
                        18 January 2019 13: 27
                        Quote: 019
                        1. Khrushchev created nuclear parity with the United States. No, not a nuclear bomb. And the means of delivery.

                        I wonder on what basis did it? belay
                        Quote: 019
                        Khrushchev in 1960 promoted the 20-year program for the development of Siberia. This program feeds you to this day. Oil and gas from Russia from there.

                        If oil and gas is development, now Russia is the most developed country in the world. laughing
                        Quote: 019
                        And Dzhugashvili could use this bomb only under his own ass.

                        Chkalov forgot? or were there no submarines? or just to say something? Yes
                        Quote: 019
                        Why didn’t he start with himself?

                        Do you know what Brezhnev died from? And he died for the same reason as Elvis Presley. Long-term use of barbiturates. They were used at that time for treatment for drug addiction and as sleeping pills. Long-term use of barbiturates causes severe depression. What kind of performance is there? Or maybe it's a diversion? the first person of the country to deprive of working capacity !!!
                        Quote: 019
                        So what for then he was needed for so long at the head of the USSR?

                        the communist system itself requires a very responsible person at the head of the pyramid of power. Assuming that if not communism, but developed socialism is possible only if there is an elite selection and training system
                        Quote: 019
                        This extended the agony of the USSR for another 35 years.

                        Well, imagine that Stalin would live 15 years more, the agony would last 50 years?
            2. 0
              12 January 2019 12: 55
              It seems that it was an ideal state, especially during its dawn ...

              I am also a good friend of Comrade Stalin, and I think that he did more good than bad. And I also consider that era to be the heyday. However, I can now name, in my opinion, one flaw. There were no passports from the collective farmers. Yes, a trifle against the background of general achievements, I do not argue. However, we are talking about ideality, and one, even the smallest flaw, ideality destroys.
              If they went back to the era of Stalin, then it seems to me that Mao’s statement about 70% good and 30% bad is correct here. Ideality requires 100%, right?
              1. 0
                14 January 2019 13: 43
                Quote: Plate
                Collective farmers did not have passports. Yes, a trifle against the background of general achievements, I do not argue.
                -the problem was that people were leaving collective farms ....
                And even the lack of a passport did not really stop - there were a lot of legal ways. The guys went to the army - then to the police or to construction sites, the girls in universities, then worked out according to the distribution. And you can’t stop them ...
            3. -2
              14 January 2019 08: 30
              you have a nuance - a price reduction has occurred AFTER monetary reform — when household incomes fell in 10 times(decrease by 20%). People did not have money, people began to murmur- forcedly reduced prices
              1. 0
                17 January 2019 21: 07
                Quote: your1970
                you have a nuance - the price reduction happened AFTER the monetary reform - when household incomes fell 10 times (decrease by 20%)

                this is your nuance stop monetary reform was in 1961 almost 10 years after the death of the Leader. negative Don't try to be smart
                1. 0
                  17 January 2019 22: 06
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Quote: your1970
                  you have a nuance - the price reduction happened AFTER the monetary reform - when household incomes fell 10 times (decrease by 20%)

                  this is your nuance stop monetary reform was in 1961 year almost 10 years after the death of the Leader. negative Don't try to be smart

                  have fun with you .... with ideological and well-read fool .....
                  "The conditions of the monetary reform were set out in the Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR and the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) N 4004 of December 14 1947 (!!!!) of the year “On monetary reform (!!!!) and the abolition of food and industrial cards. ” The decision was signed by the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR I. Stalin (!!!!) and the Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) A. Zhdanov. "
                  "When recalculating salaries, money was exchanged in such a way that the salary remained unchanged. For deposits in Sberbank, amounts of up to 3 thousand rubles were also exchanged one to one, for deposits from 3 to 10 thousand rubles, savings were reduced by one third of the amount, for deposits in in the amount of over 10 thousand rubles, half of the amount was withdrawn. Those who kept money at home received, upon exchange one new ruble for ten old. "
                  1. 0
                    17 January 2019 22: 26
                    Quote: your1970
                    when exchanged, I received one new ruble for ten old ones. "

                    I repent, I somehow did not forget about this one. Although one in ten is not impressive, I survived perestroika; I lived in Magadan and had an account. Everything burned down, the amount for which you could buy a new car in a few weeks turned into a bicycle and then a bottle of vodka in general, and inflation in 1991 had beneficiaries far from the state. The 47-year reform, of course, was of a fiscal nature, but it equalized[b] [/ b] Do not forget that in those years nuclear weapons were just being built. Not everything was in order with agriculture. Or did you want to repeat the famine in the Volga region?
                    1. +1
                      17 January 2019 22: 33
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      Although one in ten is not impressive
                      -so the main thing was that the cards were canceled. And I had to buy everything practically commercial prices, unlike fixed cards ...
                      And the people began to grumble, he grumbled before that, so they slightly reduced prices ....
                      At the same time, it must be said that this reform is forcedtoo much money was in the country generally unsecured ...
                  2. +1
                    17 January 2019 22: 40
                    Quote: your1970
                    one new ruble for ten old.

                    I’ll add that the reason for the reform was the huge money supply of counterfeit money printed by Hitler Germany to undermine the economy of the USSR. At least this is the official version.
                    1. 0
                      18 January 2019 09: 56
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      the huge money supply of counterfeit money printed by Hitler Germany to undermine the economy of the USSR. At least this is the official version.
                      - this is crap. Even the text of the decision shows that the problem was an overabundance HIS money supply

                      "Huge military expenses demanded the release of a large amount of money. The amount of money in circulation has increased significantly, as in all states participating in the war. In the same time decreased the production of goods intended for sale to the public, and retail sales decreased significantly.
                      In addition, as you know, during the Patriotic War, German and other invaders issued large amounts of counterfeit money in rubles in the temporarily occupied Soviet territory, which further increased the surplus of money in the country and littered our money circulation. "
          2. +2
            14 January 2019 09: 00
            Quote: Plate
            And the USSR was the perfect state? No, I was not. There can be no perfect states.

            a moot point. looking at what years. Do not forget that he lost a fifth of the country's population in the war! at the same time remained among the most politically significant states and developed. This speaks of a statehood close to the ideal impossible in the conditions of pluralism of liberalism and democracy
        4. 0
          12 January 2019 19: 41
          Although not ideal, but the period of its existence is the golden age of Russia, it is the standard to which Russians must tirelessly strive to build a state.
          1. WW2
            -4
            12 January 2019 20: 15
            Quote: Steel Falcon
            but the period of its existence is the golden age of Russia

            Uncle, are you crazy?
            Quote: Steel Falcon
            to which Russians should tirelessly strive to build a state.

            In fact, the Bolsheviks were ardent Russophobes, and the USSR was a real prison of peoples. At first, they fought with the Russians (with the Russian Volunteer Army), then they squeezed out its remains abroad, and those who remained mostly shot.
            Then they liquidated Russia, and on its bridge created their own USSR.
            Then they pinched the Russians (and representatives of all other nations), as they could all the way to the USSR.
            And now, it turns out, the state of bloody oppression of Russians (and representatives of all other nations), this is the ideal of the existence of Russians.
            You write so monstrous nonsense that even no words.
            1. -1
              12 January 2019 20: 26
              I'm talking about the Russian Empire.
      2. +8
        11 January 2019 17: 02
        Lenin had to reduce this empire, because the last novels entered the unnecessary country of the First World War. Stalin, after 20 years, returned all these territories without a single shot.
        1. -5
          11 January 2019 17: 49
          Romanov climbed in or declared war on him?
          1. +3
            11 January 2019 17: 53
            Was he declared a war or didn’t he leave the Entente into which he entered?
            1. -7
              11 January 2019 17: 55
              Germany itself declared war directly, and not through the Entente. You are obviously from Belarus or dill. The most interesting question is the question. You have weak trolling.
              1. +3
                11 January 2019 18: 55
                Naturally, trolling is weak, because I'm not a Troll, unlike you. Question to question is my irony for your trolling, the irony because I spoke about the unnecessary nature of a war that could and should have been avoided. And also learn history, from you, the Kremlin boat, this is a weak point.
                1. Underwater hunter
                  +1
                  11 January 2019 19: 29
                  Quote: UMA-UMA
                  And also learn history, from you, the Kremlin boat, this is a weak point.

                  У wassat there are no strong places in my opinion at all ..
                  1. +4
                    11 January 2019 22: 41
                    Quote: Underwater Hunter

                    Quote: UMA-UMA
                    And also learn history, from you, the Kremlin boat, this is a weak point.

                    They have no strong places in my opinion ..

                    Victims of eHe!)))) Are recruited by the announcement of the wretched, who are not taken in five)))
                2. +4
                  11 January 2019 23: 16
                  Quote: UMA-UMA
                  And also learn history, from you, the Kremlin boat, this is a weak point.

                  but what does the Kremlin boats have to do with it ?!
                  1. +4
                    12 January 2019 10: 24
                    There are a lot of trolls for hire.
                    1. +1
                      12 January 2019 10: 24
                      In the Solovyov’s Brilevs are knocked out.
                    2. +4
                      13 January 2019 08: 35
                      how do you know ?!
                      have you seen in the statement when you got your salary?
                      1. -3
                        13 January 2019 10: 46
                        All Kremlin boats are united by one property - mediocrity, dullness and dullness of posts.
                      2. +2
                        13 January 2019 11: 23
                        I'm sorry, but you ... write
                        what bot to call you?
                      3. -2
                        13 January 2019 16: 22
                        In your type of patriotic understanding, I am an American hired person, for I do not share the enthusiasm of the Kremlin propaganda about how the Russian Federation is developing rapidly, and how good it is to live in it. I am writing figures and facts, this is beyond the scope of your worldview.
                      4. +2
                        13 January 2019 19: 55
                        Quote: UMA-UMA

                        In your type of patriotic understanding, I am an American hired man

                        no, you won't hire, so I don't think about you, after the "kremlebots" I think that you are not very smart
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        I am writing figures and facts, this is beyond the scope of your worldview.

                        and I also think so because you know not knowing about my worldviews, talk about them
                      5. -1
                        14 January 2019 00: 13
                        You are only bickering. Bored with you. It will be, in essence, write, but I do not participate in skirmishes.
                3. -7
                  12 January 2019 01: 01
                  Quote: UMA-UMA

                  Naturally, trolling is weak, because I'm not a troll, unlike you

                  Then I laughed for a long time ... But what, did Stalin and Poland and Finland return?
                  1. +7
                    12 January 2019 10: 21
                    I’ve been laughing at you for a long time laughing No, it returned part of Poland and part of Finland when it refused to push the border from Finland. And of course, Stalin was a bloody tyrant, Lenin was an evil dwarf, and Nikolai was a saint. Only for some reason the people called the bloody saint ... and so everyone in the know, voiced Medvedev, they are building a state similar to Nikolaev Russia. Beggar, wretched, with eternal trouble.
                    1. +2
                      12 January 2019 16: 48
                      Quote: UMA-UMA
                      I’ve been laughing at you for a long time no,

                      And he promised not to communicate laughing
                      Quote: UMA-UMA
                      The former returned part of Poland and part of Finland when it refused to push the border away from Finland.

                      A masterpiece! Did not finish school at all? wink
                      Quote: UMA-UMA
                      Russia.

                      Quote: UMA-UMA
                      Beggar, wretched, with eternal trouble.

                      How do you love Russia, and the same plus you .... request
                      All the same two troubles in Russia. feel
                      1. +2
                        12 January 2019 19: 58
                        I will conduct an educational program, you are really illiterate. 1. Western Belarus, which became the 39th Soviet, was in Poland. 2. According to the results of the winter war, the Finnish border was moved 200 km from Leningrad.

                        And yet, son (this is not familiarity, I’m fatherly), I have served my homeland for half my life, and not you, theorist, to talk about love or dislike for the homeland.
                      2. +1
                        12 January 2019 20: 08
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        And further, son (this is not familiarity, this is my fatherly name), I served my homeland for half my life, and not you, theorist

                        And what year was your father born, a practitioner and a patriot? (Country in the studio, because his ardent opposition to the annexation of Crimea to Russia does not speak of a patriot of Russia (that he is not a patriot of Russia, the “father” has already admitted). just like that, he served all his life ... Yes
                      3. -4
                        12 January 2019 20: 16
                        Right now, I’ll give you my son a detailed biography, yeah. Who is the enemy against thoughtless politics? Great logic. Patriots of Putin and patriots of the Motherland, Russia are two different things. And it’s not for you, Putin’s patriot, to tell me about Vlasov, the flag of your Russia is the flag of the ROA of General Vlasov. When do you learn the story, kremleboty?
                      4. +2
                        12 January 2019 20: 26
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        Right now, I’ll give you my son a detailed biography, yeah

                        I see ... Yes Here on the site there is an individual with the nickname "Professor", he is Sokolov, are you not relatives? wink
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        And not for you, Putin’s patriot

                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        flag your Russia, this is the flag of the ROA of General Vlasov.

                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        When you learn a story, kremleboty?

                        What a sweetheart you are! fellow
                        And I'm a monarchist, and an oligarch, you missed it. laughing
                        What an intelligence! hi
                        PS
                        But there is progress, Russia finally wrote with a capital letter! Corrected. Yes
                      5. 0
                        12 January 2019 20: 30
                        Essentially, you have nothing, a fashion person. However, as usual. Tank and void. All just some kind of kiddies and slogans. Boring.
                      6. WW2
                        0
                        12 January 2019 20: 19
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        2. According to the results of the winter war, the Finnish border was moved 200 km from Leningrad.

                        Nonsense.
                        The border was pushed back in 1945. And in 1940 it was a temporary phenomenon.
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        I served half my life

                        Not to the Motherland, but to your pocket.
                        They serve the homeland for FREE (free of charge).
                      7. -3
                        12 January 2019 20: 39
                        How are you, the tank quickly changed shoes))) in the sense of nickname changed tongue you still work on the style - Schaub it was different for you.

                        The border was not pushed back for a while, just in the 41st war began to forget? Did you mean diplomas?
                        It’s indecent to look into other people's pockets. Tell me, do Putin and the team serve the homeland for free?
                      8. -2
                        12 January 2019 21: 02
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        How are you, the tank quickly changed its shoes))) in the sense of nickname, you changed your style - work Schaub, he was different

                        Do you double ?! Try not to abuse, it is harmful to health ... feel
                4. -6
                  12 January 2019 05: 42
                  For that you have the strongest place, it's lying.
              2. +5
                11 January 2019 23: 15
                Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko

                Germany itself declared war directly

                RI had obligations under an alliance agreement not to get into the arms of the Franks. Nicholas could possibly delay the war or join the Germans.
                1. +2
                  12 January 2019 10: 23
                  Well, a competent person. BONES, teach history, not tambourines rubbish about lies.
          2. +7
            11 January 2019 23: 14
            Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko

            Romanov climbed in or declared war on him?

            climbed in, he did everything so that RI was drawn into the war, what is the conflict of interests of the English Franks and Germans understandable for which they fought understandably, what conflict of interests between the Germans and Russians is absolutely not clear, and for what Russia has fallen a big secret
        2. -9
          11 January 2019 20: 53
          "Stalin, 20 years later returned all these territories without firing a single shot."

          And the war with Finland where 126 thousand Soviet citizens died and even more became crippled, what then? Although, given the ratio of losses between the Finns and the councils, one really gets the feeling that the latter did not shoot
          1. -10
            11 January 2019 22: 36
            You see, what is the point ... these modern agitators for socialism act exactly according to the same scheme as their historically failed predecessors. Namely, they firmly believe in what is written in the official Soviet sources. For example, in the newspaper Pravda.
            I assure you, about 126 thousand there and no spirit. But there is a glorious victory of the Red Army.
            And for them it means so. and there were no shots and no dead.
            They found, for example, protocols of interrogation in the archive, and it says “criminal article”, such and such.
            So that’s how it was - they put him in charge, Stalin did well.
            They are still alive, and their relatives - well, then, here we are, or ours really for nothing, he died, they shot ...
            And they in response - individual flaws, excesses in the field. Otherwise, everything is according to the law, and your grandfather was a villain and a thief.
            Try to prove something to them.
            And most importantly - nothing changes. NOTHING. The same motives, the same technology. Even the words are almost the same.
            So why not go to defend the new Soviet system from hostile elements? They will go after all, and joyfully. still - for a bright future struggle. There are no splinters here.
            1. +7
              11 January 2019 23: 18
              Quote: Mestny
              They found, for example, protocols of interrogation in the archive, and it says “criminal article”, such and such.
              So that’s how it was - they put him to work,

              why did they put the Queen ?!
              why so far they haven’t planted the floor of the Roskosmos for this? !!!!
              1. -7
                12 January 2019 01: 24
                And why did they put him by the way?
                1. +8
                  12 January 2019 08: 15
                  Quote: Mestny
                  And why did they put him by the way?

                  be surprised, for the case - misuse of budget funds, well, if in modern language
                  1. -8
                    12 January 2019 12: 45
                    For "sabotage" he was imprisoned and tortured in the Gulag itself. The broken jaw never recovered, by the way.

                    He was rehabilitated at 57m, by the way, which, as it were, proves the guilt of those NKVD scum who first put him in prison and then tortured him.
                    1. -1
                      12 January 2019 13: 38
                      Quote: Commihunter
                      For "sabotage" he was imprisoned and tortured in the Gulag itself. The broken jaw never recovered, by the way.

                      In January and February 1938, Glushko and Korolev were removed from work, Korolev lost his job as head of the department, and work on his rocket plane was discontinued.
                      Meanwhile, Langemak broke down after two weeks of interrogation and signed everything that was required of him. At the beginning of January 1938 Kleimenov and Langemak were shot for participating in an anti-Soviet Trotskyist organization and for wrecking, consisting in slowing down the development of promising weapons. (consequence of denunciation of a competing group)
                      A month later, Glushko was arrested. Only Korolev remained at large, but they soon came for him.
                      On June 27, 1938, Sergei Korolev was arrested. He was charged under the most serious political article - 58th, on two counts: 58-7 - "Undermining state industry <...>, committed for counter-revolutionary purposes through the appropriate use of state institutions and enterprises, or opposition to their normal activities" - and 58-11 - "Any kind of organizational activity aimed at preparing or committing crimes provided for in this chapter
                      Exactly three months after the arrest, Korolev was sentenced to 10 years in prison with confiscation of property and loss of rights for another five years. The indictment stated that Korolev is a member of the wrecking Trotskyist anti-Soviet organization, on the instructions of which he conducted criminal work to disrupt the development and commissioning of new types of weapons for the Red Army.
                      Zhitormitsu was incredibly lucky that he was not immediately shot. Because they did not kill him by torture, because they did not rot him in the prison / camps because the conditions there were not sugar. Then he could have died if he had got on the "Indigirka" steamer (almost all of them sank) ...
                      and Injuries from the beating of valiant servants shortened the life of a Great man who brought glory to the country and peoples. / Humanity .... That's how some low uneducated people could ruin the Talent of Humanity ... he was lucky by a miracle, but many did not!
                    2. +4
                      12 January 2019 14: 27
                      Quote: Commihunter

                      For "sabotage" he was imprisoned and tortured in the Gulag itself. The broken jaw never recovered, by the way.

                      not actually
                      they planted him for the fact that instead of developing rocket artillery, he was doing what he wanted - winged torpedoes
                      although technically it was not feasible on that segment of history
                      sabotage this same can be called on the eve of the war people reduced the defense of the army
                      although non-targeted use of public funds is more suitable

                      "In 1936 he was developing a gunpowder winged torpedo; knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo - devices with photocells - for controlling the torpedo and aiming it at the target, cannot be made by the central laboratory of wire communications, Korolev, in order to load the institute with unnecessary work development of the missile part of this torpedo in 2 versions.
                      As a result of this test, four torpedoes built by Korolev showed their complete inadequacy, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 rubles and delayed the development of other, more topical topics (ld 000-250). "

                      I threw off a rogue such as Trotskyism and so on, but this is the main thing, by the way the queens, in principle, was a very difficult person according to the reviews of those who worked with him
                      1. -4
                        12 January 2019 14: 40
                        Yeah, and at first he went on the hit lists, and he (like the whole USSR) was lucky to have reconsidered the case.

                        And so it is clear that you do not understand how science works, but by the way, those who sentenced did not understand.
                        I laughed for a long time with this quote:
                        In 1937, when developing the side compartment of the torpedo (winged), he made a wrecking calculation
                        Under "sabotage" should be understood "wrong"? I do not even want to focus on the fact that erroneous calculations are inevitable costs of scientific activity.
                        By the way, I remind you that the case was reviewed a couple of times, which is a good argument for his fabrication and exhaustion from the finger. The first time they were revised in the 39th year, then they were released ahead of schedule at 44m, and rehabilitated at 57m. Or does rehabilitation mean nothing to you, huh?

                        "Meanwhile, Langemak, after two weeks of interrogation, broke down with partiality and signed everything that was demanded of him. In early January 1938, Kleymenov and Langemak were shot for participating in the anti-Soviet Trotskyist organization and sabotage."

                        During the investigation, Korolev pleaded guilty to

                        Obviously, one can confess everything under torture, starting from wrecking and ending with a conspiracy with reptilians.
                      2. +2
                        12 January 2019 14: 56
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        Obviously, one can confess everything under torture, starting from wrecking and ending with a conspiracy with reptilians.

                        Once again, instead of the state task, he did what he wanted or not ?!
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        And so it is clear that you do not understand how science works, but by the way, those who sentenced did not understand.
                        I laughed for a long time with this quote:

                        Well, yes, of course, but let's develop a Jedi lightsaber and equip our soldiers with them, and it doesn't matter that it's stupid, but we will "move" science to the truth who knows where
                      3. -2
                        12 January 2019 15: 13
                        You better answer the question why, if he really is to blame, his case was reviewed first in the 39th year, then released at 44m, then rehabilitated at 57m.

                        And meanwhile, again: you do not understand how science works
                        in those days they gave TK level: Develop a new weapons system.
                        So he worked out, because you never know which project will shoot and which will not. I am telling you this as a person who finances startups and himself was engaged in the development of all sorts of ideas. It was the same then. And we will never know about guidance systems, whether he knew or not. They gave it a couple of times in the face and immediately "understood" that this cannot be ruled out.


                        Did they give him money for these torpedoes? Means approved his idea. And how did you understand that nothing came of it, and you have to answer for the money - shifted responsibility. This was typical of the USSR, by the way in all its times.
                      4. +2
                        12 January 2019 15: 23
                        why rehabilitated understandably
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        his case was first reviewed in the 39th year, then released at 44m

                        because it’s stupid to hammer nails with a microscope
                        but from what happened the essence does not change instead of the state order did what he wanted
                        By the way, in the circles of designers and scientists, such arbitrariness and tyranny can only be suppressed toughly
                        if only one talented designer, Yakovlev, broke the jaw, look at the start of the war, we would fly on non-obsolete and unfinished planes and on machines surpassing the enemy, and we would have saved many lives
                      5. -4
                        12 January 2019 16: 35
                        instead of government order
                        Provide data on what the state order was, how it sounded.

                        The conviction says only that the torpedoes did not fly and the damage was done to the country's budget (120 thousand rubles). That is, the failed R&D result was transferred to the head of the designer, that's all.

                        "if only one talented designer, Yakovlev, had broken the jaw"
                        And if the KGB ki did not kill designers and scientists in the 20s, 30s, 40s, if it were not for the Party's different prohibitions on "bourgeois sciences" and the typical "why do your own, if you can buy and copy" then perhaps the USSR would not have turned into backward, always catching up, resource base The West, which by the end of the 70s purchased all high-precision manufacturing and electronics in the West, because it did not know how to do it.
                      6. +2
                        12 January 2019 17: 13
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        That is, the failed R&D result was transferred to the head of the designer, that's all.

                        you do not know how to read or play the fool ?!
                        As a result of this test, four torpedoes built by Korolev showed their complete unsuitability, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 rubles and delayed the development of other, more relevant topics (ld 250-251).

                        To control a torpedo and aim it at a target, it cannot be made by the central laboratory of wire communication. Korolev, in order to load the institute with unnecessary work, intensively led the development of the missile part of this torpedo in 2 versions.


                        Artificially delayed the production and testing of defense facilities (object 212) (ld 21, 54, 255).


                        Quote: Commihunter
                        And if the KGB ki did not kill designers and scientists in the 20s, 30s, 40s

                        the names of aircraft designers killed by the "bloody gebnya" in the studio
            2. +7
              12 January 2019 00: 00
              Quote: Mestny
              You see, what is the point ... these modern agitators for socialism act exactly according to the same scheme as their historically failed predecessors. Namely, they firmly believe in what is written in the official Soviet sources. For example, in the newspaper Pravda.

              Sergey, I already wrote that I draw conclusions from the words of my ancestors - direct participants in the events. The ancestors were tribal Cossacks and Old Believers, centenarians and did not miss more than one war. Great-grandfather said for Finnish that there was a lot of confusion, of course, but good soldiers fought, but the way of counting and Finnish propaganda is another matter. A simple example of cuckoos, this whole canoe appeared in the nineties) Great-grandfather said that the Finns had a lot of well-aimed skier shooters with ordinary mosquitoes (like biathletes), but there were no snipers at all, and we had trained snipers with optics on selected mosquitoes and skiing, too, were many.
              1. -6
                12 January 2019 01: 08
                Quote: Meshcheryak
                The ancestors were tribal Cossacks and Old Believers, centenarians and did not miss a single war

                And the Cossacks, is it a people or class?
                1. +5
                  12 January 2019 11: 24
                  Quote: Tank Hard
                  And the Cossacks, is it a people or class?

                  A provocative question))) My personal opinion is that there was such an estate in the Republic of Ingushetia, now it is gone and can no longer be for objective reasons. Before joining Russia, the Don, Combin and Terts were a separate people - the Slavic-Turkic subethnos. The old tribal Cossacks (my donors were) always counted themselves as separate people and did not even marry Russian peasant women. Now there are also many among the clans who consider themselves to be separate people and even write a Cossack in their birth certificates (imagine this is possible). And I consider myself Russian already, because brought up in the Russian environment and one grandmother is already from Chernigov, the second from Samara.
                  1. -3
                    12 January 2019 16: 52
                    Quote: Meshcheryak
                    A provocative question))) My personal opinion is that there was such an estate in the Republic of Ingushetia, now it is gone and can no longer be for objective reasons.

                    My personal opinion is that for a Cossack by birth, this is not a question, the answer is clear. Thank you for your answer, everything is clear to me with this. Yes
                    1. +4
                      12 January 2019 18: 42
                      Quote: Tank Hard
                      My personal opinion is that for a Cossack by birth, this is not a question, the answer is clear. Thank you for your answer, everything is clear to me with this.

                      And what is clear to you?) I said that the question was provocative) I would definitely say that I am in favor of the Cossack people and January 24 is a day of sorrow for me, write in separs, I’ll say that the estate - say that the Cossacks never considered themselves estate, but only by the people) And, if for the sake of cleanliness, then I lived with my grandfathers in the Don for up to 13 years, then my parents took me to Moscow and I was strongly reformatted, and Cossack self-consciousness already appeared in my adulthood under the influence of contributing events. Then I already remembered how my grandfather and great-grandfather mounted a horse in June at the time of haymaking at the age of 5, how he rode around the farm, and what they sentenced ...
                2. +1
                  12 January 2019 20: 03
                  Quote: Tank Hard
                  And the Cossacks, is it a people or class?

                  May I answer? People, separate people! Descendants of wanderers, who came from Sarmatians and Scythians! Also in the ethnogenesis of the genesis of the Cossacks, the Eastern Goths took part, later the essence of the Cherkasy Caucasians. There is a Slavic component, but not very significant, because Contrary to popular belief, the runaway peasants were not accepted into the Cossacks, but left as free farmers, the Cossacks were disgraced to marry peasant women ... More characteristic moments: the Cossacks adopted Christianity much earlier than Russia from Byzantium, were part of Khazaria as the main army against the Slavs on the Don and Volga Starting from the Battle of Kalka and the rest of the Horde period, they stood on the side of the horde, felt the Tatars in many campaigns, switched to the side of Russia (partially) only in the Battle of Kulikovo .... a lot of interesting things on this topic, but the answer is clear: Cossacks are a separate people!
                  1. -4
                    12 January 2019 20: 17
                    Quote: Daronya Grebenkov
                    People,

                    In my opinion, a native Cossack can only answer that way. Yes
                    1. +1
                      12 January 2019 20: 21
                      Quote: Tank Hard
                      In my opinion, a native Cossack can only answer that way.

                      Thank you Will you be one of ours?
                      1. +1
                        12 January 2019 20: 44
                        Quote: Daronya Grebenkov
                        Of ours you will

                        Father, mother - Russian.
                  2. +3
                    13 January 2019 00: 00
                    Quote: Daronya Grebenkov
                    a lot of interesting things on this topic, but the answer is clear: Cossacks are a separate people!

                    May respect, as you recognize the Cossacks as a separate people, it was beaten with the Cossacks.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          2. +2
            11 January 2019 22: 44
            Quote: Commihunter
            And the war with Finland where 126 thousand Soviet citizens died and even more became crippled, what then? Although, given the ratio of losses between the Finns and the councils, one really gets the feeling that the latter did not shoot

            My great-grandfather fought in Finnish, according to his stories, it wasn’t how you write, despite the fact that he could, by experience, compare with the WWI and the civil ...
            1. +1
              12 January 2019 20: 10
              He told the great-granddaughter to the little one how-to-heart)))) Mine, when the conversation about the war went on only waved away thoughtfulness, and when the songs were at the table behind the glass and the memories were there and they wanted to tell, but they didn’t give tears ...
              1. +2
                13 January 2019 00: 15
                Quote: Daronya Grebenkov
                He told the great-granddaughter to the little one how-to-heart)))) Mine, when the conversation about the war went on only waved away thoughtfulness, and when the songs were at the table behind the glass and the memories were there and they wanted to tell, but they didn’t give tears ...

                Ahh, then, then the military syndrome, then normal
        3. WW2
          -5
          11 January 2019 23: 12
          Quote: UMA-UMA
          Stalin, after 20 years, returned all these territories without a single shot.

          The USSR joined these territories in 1945. After 4 years of bloody war and 42 million people. direct losses only.
          And the seizure of these territories in 1939-40. had no significance for international law. If not for 2MB, everything would have to be returned. And with compensation.
        4. WW2
          -3
          12 January 2019 20: 32
          Quote: UMA-UMA
          Stalin, after 20 years, returned all these territories without a single shot.

          These territories were returned only in 1945 after a bloody war, which lasted 4 years and claimed the lives of 42 million Soviet people.
        5. 0
          14 January 2019 13: 48
          Quote: UMA-UMA
          Lenin had to reduce this empire, because the last novels entered the unnecessary country of the First World War. Stalin, after 20 years returned without a single shot all belay these territories.
          -th I missed that ??? !!! this is where and what he returned Without war? Poland belay ? Limitrophs with their underground pre-war? Finland belay ?
      3. -1
        11 January 2019 19: 03
        army and you have a lot of territory
      4. -10
        11 January 2019 19: 07
        Lenin associates seized power in Russia. He NEVER spoke of revolution, but spoke of the October Revolution.
        The Bolsheviks annexed all colonies of the Republic of Ingushetia to the USSR by force of arms.

        Well, now the Russian Federation simply does not have the strength for such actions.
        If the USSR fought in its colony before the outbreak of World War 2 (i.e., about 20 years) and in the newly annexed territories (W, Ukraine and the Baltic states), too, about the same, now the impulse in the Donbass ended at the 8-month storm of the DAP ( Donetsk Airport named after Prokofiev)
      5. +6
        11 January 2019 19: 16
        Lenin divided Russia into several republics. So, for example, the Ukrainian SSR arose. Lenin really lost some of the territories. The return of the territories occurred under Stalin.
        1. +6
          11 January 2019 22: 50
          Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
          Lenin divided Russia into several republics. So, for example, the Ukrainian SSR arose. Lenin really lost some of the territories. The return of the territories occurred under Stalin.

          The division into national republics was necessary because RI collapsed into national territories, not provinces, respectively, the national republics were then joined on a "voluntary basis", well, it was not a province at that time.
          1. WW2
            -5
            11 January 2019 23: 08
            Quote: Meshcheryak
            because RI fell into national territories

            Actually, not RI, but Russia. And only after the end of the Bolshevik coup (January 1918). They did not recognize the outskirts of the Bolsheviks.
    2. +35
      11 January 2019 15: 26
      . PS Lenin built the state. And what did Gumilev build?

      When Gumilyov is referred to as an authority, everything becomes clear. Pseudo-scientist.
      That's right, it’s impossible to restore the USSR, therefore it is necessary to steal further, consider people to be cattle, and so that no one thinks of writing such guard articles, calming themselves and society.

      The USSR has been 27 years old, but no they everyone is afraid and flutter. Means must build a new version! good
      1. +16
        11 January 2019 15: 40
        Quote: Dude
        So, you need to build a new version!

        Be sure to build !!!
        1. +21
          11 January 2019 16: 13
          Quote: stariy
          Quote: Dude
          So, you need to build a new version!

          Be sure to build !!!

          Only without trailed and different Soviet Socialist Republics ... There is a single socialist state - the Russian Federation. Want to be part of the country - please, as areas.
          therefore any revolution does not achieve its stated goalstherefore neither USSR-2 nor "democracy" are possible

          What an interesting statement. It takes you straight away. And, my dear (different, everyone) sir, didn't the criminal revolution of the 90s under the control of the KGB and headed by the EBN achieve its goals? Isn't Shokhin in dark glasses a "gray cardinal" who has never done anything for the good of the Fatherland? What are you leading to? Don't rock the boat - everything was decided for you and without you? Look not chop off? There are not so many of you ... Your ideas are dull, your plans are thieves, your life is well-fed ... You rarely remember the people ... But we remember everything ...
          1. -7
            11 January 2019 19: 18
            Quote: ROSS 42
            didn’t the criminal revolution of the 90s led by the KGB and led by the EBN achieve goals?

            No, not reached.
            They did not really build capitalism, they cannot really destroy socialism.
            Again, it turned out like with communism - neither this nor that, nor on the side of the bow.
            1. +6
              11 January 2019 22: 53
              Quote: Mestny
              Quote: ROSS 42
              didn’t the criminal revolution of the 90s led by the KGB and led by the EBN achieve goals?

              No, not reached.
              They did not really build capitalism, they cannot really destroy socialism.
              Again, it turned out like with communism - neither this nor that, nor on the side of the bow.

              Someone was going to build capitalism?))) Maybe they originally planned to build a colony?) So they built it, the next step is digital slavery!)
              1. -7
                11 January 2019 23: 00
                So what about the colonies - capitalism or not?
                Digital slavery ...
                It seems that civilization is taking the next step forward, and once again we do not understand, hate and fear.
                Say - this step is wrong, leads to death?
                And I will ask - how do you know this, what exactly is to her?
                Our dear "analysts" over the past couple of centuries have not once guessed either usefulness or harmfulness. And only then we hopped frantically trying to jump into the departing train of civilization.
                1. +5
                  11 January 2019 23: 17
                  Quote: Mestny
                  So what about the colonies - capitalism or not?

                  So I would like Russia to be not a colony, but a metropolis, if only for that polo)
                  Quote: Mestny
                  It seems that civilization is taking the next step forward, and once again we do not understand, hate and fear.
                  Say - this step is wrong, leads to death?

                  The question is on whose side are these technologies. And I will say: infa is collected not only by your actions on the Internet, but also on the phone, and on electronic bank cards and on moving in space with a smartphone. Everything is fixed, automatically, infa is processed. This is already underway, but so far you can only notice this in browser advertising and targeted mailing. Then it will be cooler, starting from personal recognition of all possible outdoor activities to karma, these technologies are already running in. And something tells me that they will all serve transnationals)
            2. +5
              12 January 2019 01: 53
              Quote: Mestny
              Quote: ROSS 42
              didn’t the criminal revolution of the 90s led by the KGB and led by the EBN achieve goals?

              No, not reached.
              They did not really build capitalism, they cannot really destroy socialism.
              Again, it turned out like with communism - neither this nor that, nor on the side of the bow.

              Wow!) Naive))) Is that why the union was ruined in order to build civilized capitalism? wink What they wanted and did, everything goes according to plan. Now the stage of liquidation of social obligations has already begun, followed by an even larger demographic pit. The next stage is the division of Russia into districts, ideally with a citizen ... Normally, our administration is working)
              1. WW2
                -8
                12 January 2019 09: 59
                Quote: Dmitry Zarutsky
                Is that why the union was destroyed in order to build civilized capitalism? wink What they wanted and did, everything goes according to plan.

                Not according to plan, but according to the laws of development of society.
                Behind the slave ALWAYS there is a feudal system. And NEVER is capitalistic. This follows the feudal.
                So, everything is fine, there is nothing to worry about.
                But when the brains of a PEOPLE develop slightly, when he stops mumbling about the "bright past under socialism", then it will be possible to think about capitalism. Until then, early.
                1. +5
                  12 January 2019 10: 39
                  Quote: WW2
                  But when the people’s brains develop slightly

                  you are still far from this
            3. +8
              12 January 2019 02: 41
              Quote: Mestny
              Quote: ROSS 42
              didn’t the criminal revolution of the 90s led by the KGB and led by the EBN achieve goals?

              No, not reached.
              They did not really build capitalism, they cannot really destroy socialism.
              Again, it turned out like with communism - neither this nor that, nor on the side of the bow.

              Mestny colleague, I understand your position!
              But, believe me, without parallel socialism, during the course of the whole of the twentieth century, the friendly-Pharisee, tortured smile of capitalism would turn into a carnivorous grin)) Pretty insatiable laughing request That we, however, are now observing
              1. WW2
                -6
                12 January 2019 10: 01
                Quote: Dude
                But, believe me, without socialism existing in parallel, throughout the course of the whole of the twentieth century, a friendly-Pharisee, tortured smile of capitalism would turn into a carnivorous grin))

                Socialism has been gone for over a quarter century. Where is this grin?
                Quote: Dude
                That we, however, are now observing

                And what are you observing? What has changed in the world without socialism in the USSR?
                1. +4
                  12 January 2019 10: 40
                  Quote: WW2
                  then the world has changed without socialism in the USSR?

                  fool
                  1. WW2
                    -5
                    12 January 2019 10: 49
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    fool

                    You don’t have to beat yourself on the head. There will be no sense anyway.
                    1. +4
                      12 January 2019 11: 27
                      Well, if you asked an idiotic question
                    2. +3
                      13 January 2019 00: 23
                      Quote: WW2
                      You don’t have to beat yourself on the head. There will be no sense anyway.

                      Ltd! I thought a wall knocked and pierced, such a beat said
                2. +3
                  12 January 2019 11: 59
                  I am observing a precisely verified plan for the extermination of Russian people in their places of residence. Something tells me that some people from our partners would gladly solve the Russian question completely.
                  Figures.
                  Knees describe.
                  Will explain. We have the Sailors; They dont have.
                  And, translate into Russian even from Ukromov, even from Kazakh (and also expensive to any independent Kazakhstan, Latin) terms of discharge, ash, well, and heap, dump, mine surveyor, stevedore, blast furnace, marten ?!
                  Well, - the slide rule wassat
      2. -20
        11 January 2019 15: 46
        And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity, but what did the rest of historical science give? She gave - "the end of the story" and screwed up in full. Gumilev turned out to be right, and historical science is now engaged exclusively in rewriting history, it ended, in accordance with its own prediction ...
        1. +19
          11 January 2019 16: 02
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity, but what did the rest of historical science give? She gave - "the end of the story" and screwed up in full. Gumilev turned out to be right, and historical science is now engaged exclusively in rewriting history, it ended, in accordance with its own prediction ...

          I do not want to offend you, but when a person takes a theory for truth, then what is his argument here.
          Your statements about the truth of the theory are similar to the opinions of those same people who, not only with foam at the mouth but also through various programs, museums and other media, are trying to prove the truth of Darwin's theory, but it is only a THEORY, that is, an ASSUMPTION.
          Without belittling Gumilyov’s works, I still did not take them as the basis of my statements, but only as assumptions.
        2. +18
          11 January 2019 16: 06
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity, but what did the rest of historical science give? She gave - "the end of the story" and screwed up in full. Gumilev turned out to be right, and historical science is now engaged exclusively in rewriting history, it ended, in accordance with its own prediction ...

          I’m not Ukrainian, and you are not Bagrov Sr. performed by V. Sukhorukov, to answer you, understand? wink
          Theory of passionate ethnogenesis is but a one of theories, and undeniable. Although not uninteresting.

          And you famously took - Gumilyov - everything, and the rest of the science - nothing, as you say! Moreover, you pass it off as an axiom. Some kind of sectarianism, IMHO.
          1. +6
            11 January 2019 16: 55
            Quote: Dude
            And you famously took - Gumilyov - everything, and the rest of the science - nothing, as you say! Moreover, you pass it off as an axiom. Some kind of sectarianism, IMHO.

            I read the pretzel a book, I decided that I know everything ... and you ... a rag and a face cloth ... roughly straight ... winked
            1. +6
              11 January 2019 19: 03
              Quote: polar fox
              Quote: Dude
              And you famously took - Gumilyov - everything, and the rest of the science - nothing, as you say! Moreover, you pass it off as an axiom. Some kind of sectarianism, IMHO.

              I read the pretzel a book, I decided that I know everything ... and you ... a rag and a face cloth ... roughly straight ... winked

              Yeah, incongruously somehow happened feel recourse I just devoted a lot of time and attention to the study of the younger Gumilyov’s work. And he was always amazed at his amazing scientific eclecticism. Therefore, I know what I'm talking about. hi
            2. +10
              11 January 2019 19: 16
              Quote: polar fox
              I read the pretzel a book, I decided that I know everything ... and you ... a rag, yes.

              I strongly disagree with the author, but I have a question for you: Have you at least read this book to speak out so insultingly about the author? am In general, what books have you read in your life?
            3. -4
              11 January 2019 19: 25
              You are there to save your collective lips, builders 2.0.
              The author asked you in clear language - did there even exist at least one revolution without the blood and devouring of its children?
              So you answer him about Gumilyov begin - scientifically, not scientifically, theory, not theory.
              That's when the revolutionaries personally come to your home and begin to kill your family - here you will tell them that Gumilyov is not a scientist, but you personally for real science.
              The same conventional "boat" exists, whether you like it or not. Seeking to turn it over can only be some categories of citizens - those who have a spare boat nearby, and with previously washed empty brains.
              In other cases, everyone wants to save the boat.
              So, without Gumilyov and theories - personally, which option is closer to you?
              1. +4
                11 January 2019 23: 01
                Quote: Mestny
                The same conventional "boat" exists, whether you like it or not. Only some categories of citizens are trying to turn it over - those who have a spare boat nearby

                ABOUT! Sergey, who has this spare boat?)))) Castles, villas, citizenships and tap-holes?))) Here they are swinging the boat, but we have nowhere to run to, to tear to the last throat. I hope that those who swing the boat)
                1. -4
                  11 January 2019 23: 07
                  These, who still have it, know what it is like to drive your own boat.
                  This is much better. than hoping to take a place in a stranger. Even if they promised you an oath, or you already bought a ticket.
                  It’s just not interesting to rock this with the aim of drowning.
                  And here is the very gobble that doesn’t have a ticket to the other - why does it swing? What would drown?
                  Well, the overseas future "golden billion" is therefore applauding them while standing - the boat prevents them ... to catch fish.
                  And so, no boats, no passengers. In one fell swoop two problems.
                  1. +6
                    11 January 2019 23: 29
                    Quote: Mestny
                    These, who still have it, know what it is like to drive your own boat.
                    This is much better. than hoping to take a place in a stranger. Even if they promised you an oath, or you already bought a ticket.
                    It’s just not interesting to rock this with the aim of drowning.
                    And here is the very gobble that doesn’t have a ticket to the other - why does it swing? What would drown?
                    Well, the overseas future "golden billion" is therefore applauding them while standing - the boat prevents them ... to catch fish.
                    And so, no boats, no passengers. In one fell swoop two problems.

                    And we’ll be tormented even on our foreheads, but if we resist, we’ll have at least some chance of winning, 100 years ago, the chances were extremely small ... If they decided to reduce us to 30 lyam, then they’ll and the colonial government will achieve this.
              2. +3
                12 January 2019 10: 01
                Quote: Mestny
                You are there to save your collective lips, builders 2.0.
                The author asked you in clear language - did there even exist at least one revolution without the blood and devouring of its children?
                So you answer him about Gumilyov begin - scientifically, not scientifically, theory, not theory.
                That's when the revolutionaries personally come to your home and begin to kill your family - here you will tell them that Gumilyov is not a scientist, but you personally for real science.
                The same conventional "boat" exists, whether you like it or not. Seeking to turn it over can only be some categories of citizens - those who have a spare boat nearby, and with previously washed empty brains.
                In other cases, everyone wants to save the boat.
                So, without Gumilyov and theories - personally, which option is closer to you?

                The conditions were different, a different way of society. That's the answer. Now there will be no civil war.
        3. -1
          11 January 2019 16: 25
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity

          + for this)
        4. Underwater hunter
          +1
          11 January 2019 16: 44
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity, but what did the rest of historical science give?

          This is the only thing I agree with you. But it was not possible to draw it to the topic of the USSR .. to put it mildly.
          1. -5
            11 January 2019 19: 27
            And what was so special about the USSR?
        5. -3
          12 January 2019 01: 18
          Quote: Victor Kamenev

          And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity, but what did the rest

          I read that during my life I didn’t dare to argue with Gumilyov, because he seemed to be a geographer, tied historical events to the geography of the past and not only to birch bark letters, which were written by various chroniclers by order of various princes, and even burned several times, then corresponded again . After death, as often happens, they began to throw dirt on him ...
      3. BAI
        +7
        11 January 2019 15: 55
        When Gumilyov is referred to as an authority, everything becomes clear. Pseudo-scientist.

        What is clear? Gumilyov everyone knows, many refer. And, excuse me, who knows you, and who refers to you to evaluate Gumilyov like that?
        1. -5
          11 January 2019 19: 33
          These are representatives of the Goblin Witnesses Sect. They energetically explain to them who is a scientist and who is not. As befits sectarians - the slightest doubt about the veracity of ventriloquism of the Guru and his friends immediately leads to the expulsion of the former member.
          I used to read on their site sometimes, in places it was interesting. So far, everything has not turned into the intensity of idiocy - the construction of communism in Goblinsky, that is, rampant earning money for yourself on the idea of ​​building a just society.
          Those who came from there grit their teeth when they hear the expression "no need to rock the boat", believing that there is no boat at all.
          This makes them laugh Homeric the expression "we need to work better." In their view, it is probably not necessary to work at all - all the same, everything will go to the oligarchs, and this is unfair.
      4. +5
        11 January 2019 18: 18
        Quote: Dude
        The USSR is 27 years old, as it is not, but they are all afraid and tremble.

        They tremble before that they begin to get confused in their own logic and misinterpret Gumilyov’s quotes.

        To the question of a certain “democratic pen” he answered: “What kind of democrat am I? I have a profession! ”

        Gumilyov said: "I am not an INTELLIGENT, I have a profession!"
        1. +6
          11 January 2019 19: 11
          Quote: Hlavaty
          Quote: Dude
          The USSR is 27 years old, as it is not, but they are all afraid and tremble.

          They tremble before that they begin to get confused in their own logic and misinterpret Gumilyov’s quotes.

          To the question of a certain “democratic pen” he answered: “What kind of democrat am I? I have a profession! ”

          Gumilyov said: "I am not an INTELLIGENT, I have a profession!"

          In order to refer to Gumilyov, one does not need to carefully study his works. It’s enough, just to get acquainted with some kind of popular science review))) Yes, then problems with quotes arise, and errors in terminology, but what's the difference ?;) The main thing, even if neither to the village, nor to the city, refer to the loud name)) Profit received!
          1. -6
            11 January 2019 22: 47
            Well, this is how to refer to Lenin without having studied his works.
            Or Stalin, studying life under him in the newspaper Pravda.
            1. +4
              12 January 2019 10: 51
              I welcome you again, colleague! At 90 m, I managed to save both authors whom you designated from the PSS waste paper. Still on the shelf. The shelf is two-story, length - 5,40. Need quotes - waiting for a visit! hi drinks
            2. +4
              12 January 2019 10: 59
              Quote: Mestny
              Well, this is how to refer to Lenin without having studied his works.
              Or Stalin, studying life under him in the newspaper Pravda.

              Come for quotes, read PSS, maybe it will benefit)
        2. -8
          11 January 2019 23: 03
          Not necessarily, there are different sources, they give different options, but in fact something is the same, but you misinterpret the essence.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. -4
        11 January 2019 22: 32
        Quote: Dude
        When Gumilyov is referred to as an authority, everything becomes clear. Pseudo-scientist.
        Who really is the authority in ethnology?
        1. -7
          11 January 2019 22: 50
          Like who? A well-known affair is Comrade Stalin.
          As the best student of Comrade Lenin.
          It is he who, as is known, illuminated the path to all sciences without exception in the USSR, thanks to the light bulb invented by Comrade Lenin and the GOELRO plan.
          1. +5
            13 January 2019 00: 37
            Quote: Mestny
            Like who? A well-known affair is Comrade Stalin.
            As the best student of Comrade Lenin.
            It is he who, as is known, illuminated the path to all sciences without exception in the USSR, thanks to the light bulb invented by Comrade Lenin and the GOELRO plan.

            Wow, does he pick up? Happiness, father)))
        2. +2
          13 January 2019 00: 28
          Quote: sniperino
          Who really is the authority in ethnology?

          authority? head need to work and not looking hto smarter
          1. -1
            13 January 2019 16: 00
            Quote: Pokidka Gorozhavka
            head need to work and not looking hto smarter
            It depends on why work. Some are looking smarter than themselves, others are more stupid, others are looking for anyone.
    3. -19
      11 January 2019 15: 36
      And in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention in front of any party bureaucrats? "Nesuns" - a whole phenomenon formed by small thieves, dragging everything they could from their place of work. They went to Moscow for sausage, and the Volga region was always "starving". Your memory is very short, but it can be fixed.
      1. +24
        11 January 2019 15: 43
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        and the Volga region was always "starving".

        This is when we were starving, remind me. And then I live in Ulyanovsk and don’t know that we are always starving ...
      2. +26
        11 January 2019 15: 44
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        And in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention in front of any party bureaucrats? "Nesuns" - a whole phenomenon formed by small thieves, dragging everything they could from their place of work. They went to Moscow for sausage, and the Volga region was always "starving". Your memory is very short, but it can be fixed.

        ----------------------
        No, with memory, everything is fine with us, we remember blat, and careerism, and deficit. But everything that you listed was called banal degeneration, sabotage in the system of trade and the revival of petty-bourgeois self-awareness. You pretend to be some kind of science, and not just operate on sausage-jeans arguments.
        1. -6
          11 January 2019 19: 37
          Well, this is a completely different matter!
          Sorry, I didn’t know that if stealing is called rebirth, then it turns out nothing. Can.
          That is, they fought with him with a communist, firm hand. Well, what did not overcome - well, historically insignificant period, the war prevented, hostile capitalist encirclement.
        2. +3
          12 January 2019 09: 57
          Quote: Altona
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          And in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention in front of any party bureaucrats? "Nesuns" - a whole phenomenon formed by small thieves, dragging everything they could from their place of work. They went to Moscow for sausage, and the Volga region was always "starving". Your memory is very short, but it can be fixed.

          ----------------------
          No, with memory, everything is fine with us, we remember blat, and careerism, and deficit. But everything that you listed was called banal degeneration, sabotage in the system of trade and the revival of petty-bourgeois self-awareness. You pretend to be some kind of science, and not just operate on sausage-jeans arguments.

          hi
        3. -2
          12 January 2019 16: 37
          Quote: Altona
          remember blat, and careerism, and shortages. But everything that you listed was called banal degeneration, sabotage in the system of trade and the revival of petty-bourgeois self-awareness.
          Party leaders have learned to call problems streamlined. And if you look a little inside the problem: without antagonistic classes, without private ownership of the means of production and exploitation, how could such a disaster happen to workers, collective farm peasants and intellectual laying in a country where being determined consciousness?
      3. +22
        11 January 2019 15: 45
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        But in the USSR they didn’t steal, they didn’t rob,

        Want to compare with today?
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        didn’t stand at attention before any party bureaucrats?

        now exactly the same
        1. -4
          11 January 2019 19: 40
          So now it’s clear why - in the courtyard there is capitalism with a beastly face.
          But under socialism with the human - how did this happen?
      4. +18
        11 January 2019 15: 54
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        But in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention to any party bureaucrats?

        And they steal, rob, kill in all countries, on all continents, at all times and under any political system. Did not know? And, yes, the bureaucrats at the front are now quietly standing, as if no longer stretched out! Only now the council on the bureaucrat-official was easier, and they did not bury so
        like the current ones.
        "Nesuns" - a whole phenomenon formed by petty thieves, dragging everything they could from their place of work
        That's right, large thieves are now stealing. No, it’s arch-large. Well, progress, for sure!
        ... They went to Moscow for sausage, and the Volga region was always "starving".
        They went for sausage in late stagnation, when irreplaceable comrades had already torn themselves away from the people - nowhere else to go, and had nothing to do with socialist / communist principles, and the country confidently led to collapse - some because of their insanity and some because of desire grab yourself a fatter piece during a disaster.
        1. +19
          11 January 2019 16: 03
          Quote: Dude
          Only here the council for the bureaucrat-official was easier,

          it surely went to the district committee or wrote to the newspaper, and .. everything.
          And now the president is writing and saying, and things are still there
          1. -3
            12 January 2019 16: 55
            Quote: Silvestr
            Quote: Dude
            Only here the council for the bureaucrat-official was easier,

            it surely went to the district committee or wrote to the newspaper, and .. everything. And now the president is writing and saying, and things are still there
            I went and wrote ... Did you write to the program "Obvious - Incredible"?
      5. +16
        11 January 2019 15: 54
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        but it can be fixed.

        who will correct? Corrector will not break?
        1. +3
          13 January 2019 00: 49
          Quote: stariy

          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          but it can be fixed.

          who will correct? Corrector will not break?
          Reply

          Iha rules long beat meka and weak laughing our time has come to the garden!) my mess!)
      6. +11
        11 January 2019 15: 58
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        and the Volga region was always "starving". Your memory is very short, but it can be fixed.

        And then remember, since you have a long memory, who sold equipment and technologies to us then only for grain, which provoked his shortage. But I also remember from the stories of my great-grandfather and grandfather the horrors of the surplus appraisal, when the last-grandfather and the great-great-grandfather of the Antonov uprising were also taken away from the peasants from the peasants, and they also talked about taking the peasants hostage with shooting through one for not giving the Antonovites and about the Latvian riflemen, who for this sent from the Polish war. Everything must be remembered and not in places.
      7. +13
        11 January 2019 16: 18
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        But in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention to any party bureaucrats?

        What time in the USSR? You have forgotten one common truth: in the USSR, for today's today's thieves, they were either shot, or with a forfeiture of 15. Yes... stop In the USSR there was a criminal article for "sodomy", and the country's leader never showed loyalty to individuals of the LGBT community. In the USSR, it was considered bad taste.
        1. -1
          11 January 2019 19: 36
          Let me supplement you a little: in RI also adhered to the traditional orientation. Although this article has been canceled in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, 2/3 of men are of traditional orientation. Found on the Internet: attitude towards blue. Two friends decided to check how young people react to gays: they walked along the street and showed lovers. They were carefully provoked to a fight: they insulted, pushed and scoffed. So in our society there is little that has changed in relation to gays.
          PS In February 1917, criminal liability was abolished and reintroduced after the death of Lenin
          1. +2
            12 January 2019 17: 21
            Quote: Astra wild
            2/3 men of traditional orientation
            This is according to the "nasty"? They like to overestimate their importance.
          2. +2
            13 January 2019 00: 55
            Quote: Astra wild
            Let me supplement you a little: in RI also adhered to the traditional orientation. Although this article has been canceled in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, 2/3 of men are of traditional orientation. Found on the Internet: attitude towards blue. Two friends decided to check how young people react to gays: they walked along the street and showed lovers. They were carefully provoked to a fight: they insulted, pushed and scoffed. So in our society there is little that has changed in relation to gays.
            PS In February 1917, criminal liability was abolished and reintroduced after the death of Lenin

            Excuse me, I don’t understand, but were you wanting to skzat, ala cada se od onda doves?
      8. +15
        11 January 2019 16: 24
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        And in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention in front of any party bureaucrats? "Nesuns" - a whole phenomenon formed by small thieves, dragging everything they could from their place of work. They went to Moscow for sausage, and the Volga region was always "starving". Your memory is very short, but it can be fixed.

        Do not twist and do not slide to the level of the dispute - "Doo..k".
        All the sins that you have listed and not listed have existed and have existed since time immemorial, so blaming the Soviet system for not eradicating them in a short period of time in the USSR simply looks naive and unconvincing on your part. Despite all the shortcomings of the Soviet system, he, unlike the bourgeois (capitalist) system, did not try to verbally but actually try to fight human sins and the fact that the Bolsheviks (Communists) failed to do this in such a short time, a little less than 70 years the right to reproach you with the USSR.
        As for the "party bureaucrats", there is a common name for this - bureaucracy - which has no borders and is widespread in all countries of the world, regardless of the social system. And what was the USSR guilty of here? He inherited this disease from capitalism and he suffered from it on an equal footing with everyone, although he fought with his own methods.
        So, to summarize the "collection" of your negatives about life in the USSR, I would suggest that you compare the life there with the current life in the Russian Federation from the point of view of the existing negative and positive on both sides, and then smoothly move on to general indicators and the possibility of reviving the new socialist building in Russia.
      9. +10
        11 January 2019 18: 32
        But the USSR is my youth and I remember it well, and they did not go to Siberia from Moscow to sausage and did not stand at attention, I say youth!
        And I am taken aback, and just the same amazement when my peers spit in their youth in the USSR.
        That’s the most important argument for the USSR in my half a hundred with a ponytail years — the youth who left in a place with the Soviet empire, which was killed by the libero democrats.
      10. +1
        13 January 2019 15: 13
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        And in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention in front of any party bureaucrats? "Nesuns"

        all this about the sunset of the USSR. which began with Khrushchev.
    4. +15
      11 January 2019 15: 42
      Quote: Altona
      That's right, it’s impossible to restore the USSR, therefore it is necessary to steal further, consider people to be cattle, and so that no one thinks of writing such guard articles, calming themselves and society.

      And who said that socialism cannot be built in our country? The representative of the aligarhat, his employers, will not allow him to do this with all his will. Who voluntarily parted with the loot?))))
      1. +3
        11 January 2019 16: 20
        Without losses it is impossible. Without consequences
        1. -5
          11 January 2019 23: 22
          In-in. Without consequences.
          But it won’t stop us, right? What are some consequences compared to the socialist happiness of our long-suffering country?
          It remains only to determine who is in consumption, and who will rebuild factories and roads with a Kyle and a wheelbarrow. Well, after the end of the civil war, and the restoration of order by NATO troops in the territory of the former state.
          Only we will not determine.
          1. -5
            11 January 2019 23: 27
            . But it won’t stop us, right? What are some consequences

            Yes, they would have at least a clear goal. And then just down. Like Sobachak against everyone. They don’t even know what they want. Not to mention how to achieve this
          2. +2
            12 January 2019 02: 02
            Quote: Mestny
            In-in. Without consequences.
            But it won’t stop us, right? What are some consequences compared to the socialist happiness of our long-suffering country?
            It remains only to determine who is in consumption, and who will rebuild factories and roads with a Kyle and a wheelbarrow. Well, after the end of the civil war, and the restoration of order by NATO troops in the territory of the former state.
            Only we will not determine.

            And why NATO?) How about the fact that China will occupy the territory in support of the Communist revolution in order to prevent NATO from entering Russia) What is the scenario?)
            1. +3
              13 January 2019 01: 02
              The Chinese are happy for the script, si od where about teima nobility?
    5. Underwater hunter
      +16
      11 January 2019 16: 39
      So many empty words and letters .. Gumilyov even pulled. Stupidity is utter. They actively hammer that the USSR is impossible, that we are living better than anyone and other nonsense .. All these articles are commissioned by the capitalists, who sense that their outrages will soon come to an end .. everything and everything has rotted, nothing works, what’s now called the state, in fact, is simply a corporation that draws resources from Russia without paying attention to the problems of the population. Endlessly, this robbery cannot continue ..
      We need to return to the socialist idea, take all the best that was adapted to the current reality, and the rest (CIS) will catch up if they see how much better a simple person lives in Russia.
    6. +7
      11 January 2019 17: 00
      Bravo. Bull's-eye. And the article is an ordinary pro-Putin agitation.
      1. -9
        11 January 2019 17: 31
        Putin is to blame again wassat
        Could not pass by, sorry.
        The author basically claims that there are no revolutions without consequences and will have to suffer. And that the same old Union will no longer be.
        Only Putin does not have to drag. I still trust him. But neither I nor the author do not agitate you
        1. +6
          11 January 2019 17: 51
          Well, what are you, Putin is not to blame for anything. He is beautiful.
          1. -6
            11 January 2019 19: 06
            Well, women seem to like wassat
            It’s just that the author of the article did not mention him. I thought to hang up labels like the State Department and Putin is no longer in trend. How am I wrong wassat
            But if you tend to assume that the author is in the service bully
            1. +3
              11 January 2019 21: 33
              Like women is of course the main necessary quality of the president.
              1. -9
                11 January 2019 23: 14
                Women are citizens of the country. They like it - to strengthen power.
                What's wrong?
                Or maybe it is forbidden only to Putin?
            2. +1
              13 January 2019 23: 03
              Interested in a circle of women who like Putin? And then it’s not about who someone likes, but about the state talents of our leaders. By the way, Putin personally said that he was responsible for everything in the country ....
      2. +3
        13 January 2019 01: 10
        Quote: UMA-UMA
        Bravo. Bull's-eye. And the article is an ordinary pro-Putin agitation.

        That! then ye at the corridor of the orphans, and ford did not swing, God forbid!
    7. +3
      11 January 2019 19: 12
      You read carefully, the author does not say that Gumilyov was building something. If you throw away all the verbal husk about Prigozhin-Bertalanfi, then Gumilev realized that it is better not to build an existing one, and even more so if the "builders" only know how to destroy, but how to build and what to build they do not know
      1. 0
        11 January 2019 23: 18
        This is without any Gumilyov knows any normal adult.
        Does not break the house in the winter. if he has nowhere to live.
        Whatever, but a roof over your head.
        But the alternative-gifted of course acts differently - it breaks everything.
        And sleeps in the winter in a hut built in haste from the wreckage of the former house that he hated.
      2. +3
        13 January 2019 01: 16
        Quote: Astra wild

        You read carefully, the author does not say that Gumilyov was building something. If you throw away all the verbal husk about Prigozhin-Bertalanfi, then Gumilev realized that it is better not to build an existing one, and even more so if the "builders" only know how to destroy, but how to build and what to build they do not know

        Viste, madam, know, yes, write? I can’t understand you. Jaco and Ruski јesik znam.
    8. +1
      12 January 2019 05: 27
      Lenin and Gumilyov had different tasks in life, so your comparisons are incorrect. How much each of them coped with their task can be judged today. Moreover, after the defeat of our state, which took place in the eighties and nineties. It should be noted that the reasons in question are associated with the assassination of Stalin and the coming to power of Khrushchev. It was these events that brought the country to defeat in the 80s and 90s. It was by this time that a gang of traitor-marauders was finally formed and strengthened, ready to tear the country apart. And for the fact that it was during this period that millions of our compatriots were physically destroyed, they will eventually have to answer. Today, the cries of this public are the best evidence that the failure of the adventure - "perestroika" and "reforms", put them outside the law and therefore the question of power has become the main question about the future of Russia.

      In support of the above, two conclusions of L. Gumilyov: "The presence of the class structure and the class struggle in the slave-owning, feudal and capitalist society are facts established and not subject to revision." And the second: "The social development of mankind has been well studied, and its laws have been formulated by historical materialism."
    9. +3
      12 January 2019 23: 24
      Quote: Altona
      That's right, it’s impossible to restore the USSR, therefore it is necessary to steal further, consider people to be cattle, and so that no one thinks of writing such guard articles, calming themselves and society.
      PS Lenin built the state. And what did Gumilev build?
      Gumyalyov didn’t know what he built, but Lenin didn’t have time to build the state either, they built others according to his light.
    10. 0
      15 January 2019 10: 37
      If in principle, then you can build everything. Would this principle be elevated to the rank of state idea. Read the classics dear.
  2. +21
    11 January 2019 15: 10
    I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?
    1. +18
      11 January 2019 15: 15
      Quote: izya top
      I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?

      ---------------------
      Gumilev’s authority was brought to you.
      1. -7
        11 January 2019 23: 31
        Why are you clinging to this Gumilyov?
        In the USSR, with 100% employment of the population in production and management in stores, it was a rolling ball. Where is it all? Where is the result of the labor of hundreds of millions of people? Automobile roads - and even then they were not built normal. Electricity in some villages of the northwest appeared in the late 70s, half a century after the "Ilyich bulb".
        Here you have the employment in production.
        1. +1
          13 January 2019 23: 33
          Did capitalism give us everything?
          And they built roads and conducted electricity with gas.
          Yes, I forgot, the food appeared a lot of food, only eating it is dangerous to health.
      2. +3
        13 January 2019 01: 21
        Quote: Altona

        Quote: izya top
        I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?

        ---------------------
        Gumilev’s authority was brought to you.

        Ovo sve obјashњava, Gumelev made it se))))
    2. -17
      11 January 2019 15: 25
      Quote: izya top
      I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?

      Yes, what are you saying? Did you count the party nomenclature including all paid Komsomol functionaries with service staff? smile
      I liked the article. I think this is a completely truthful view of the revolution in general. If we consider them separately, then of course we can’t do without small-town specifics ... The only thing I want to add to the author is that all revolutions necessarily end with the division of property, theft, theft and the sale quickly and cheaply! And all utopias i.e. the revolutionary struggle for the benefit of people is necessarily accompanied by the death of a significant part of these people, but the author said this.
      1. -19
        11 January 2019 15: 41
        So the war, especially civil, all - to plunder the winners. All wars because of this and begin.
        1. +20
          11 January 2019 15: 45
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          Why is it fundamentally impossible to build the USSR-2?

          Arkhangelsk, Far East .. recall Kamenev? it’s not the Bolsheviks robbed ... it’s the Americans and Japanese, they killed and robbed.
          1. -6
            11 January 2019 23: 33
            Now, after the new collapse of Russia. and the beginning of the construction of the USSR 2.0 - they certainly will not do this.
            They will stand on the border, and wait - while we are here on the mountain they will build a new socialism.
            ... Now we really have no choice. Any scrapping is certainly a death.
            1. +3
              13 January 2019 01: 29
              Quote: Mestny
              ... Now we really have no choice. Any scrapping is certainly a death.

              A break? and chuck and unbeaten? Do you have a great idea, or Nisi grab? Awaken all Russia!
            2. -4
              13 January 2019 08: 20
              Quote: Mestny
              ... Now we really have no choice. Any scrapping is certainly a death.
              There is always a choice, only the idea of ​​destroying the whole world of violence to the ground or a single country should be buried without honors. But the state ideology, which is based on the idea of ​​social justice, should be; and laws restricting the indefatigable appetites of the capitalist and protecting workers should be.
        2. -12
          11 January 2019 16: 55
          I also liked your article. True, I think socialism is possible to build. But the price will be twenty years of poverty and devastation. This is if the external enemy is excluded. Do I need to build it now request
          I haven’t reached the handle yet recourse
          1. +4
            11 January 2019 19: 05
            Quote: igorbrsv
            I think socialism is possible to build. But the price will be twenty years of poverty and ruin

            What is socialism and how much is the price of its construction?
            1. -2
              11 January 2019 20: 10
              I will not look at the dictionaries now. For me, socialism: all power to the people; state land and natural resources; from each according to work, to each according to his deserts.
              The price of construction. The impossibility of building socialism without revolution and coup immediately. The inability to choose all the power structures for themselves for this. Stratification of society into two camps. External threats. Lack of a leader and a clear plan of action.
              When attempting a coup or revolution, a confrontation is inevitable even within the security forces, and even the people. Not even one with the others. Still harder.
              1. +4
                11 January 2019 20: 30
                Quote: igorbrsv
                to everyone deserving.

                actually
                1. -5
                  11 January 2019 20: 34
                  Well, I have not read the original. And here it is because it is difficult to evaluate. I will be satisfied with merit and work
                  1. +3
                    11 January 2019 20: 53
                    Quote: igorbrsv
                    And here it is because

                    well, truth for the sake of the people
                    1. -5
                      11 January 2019 20: 56
                      belay for what? Don't scare me
                      1. +6
                        11 January 2019 20: 58
                        for life, but what are you talking about?
                      2. -5
                        11 January 2019 21: 07
                        Well, when you told each one "there", I thought that it was a unit of measurement unknown to me, such as one pood for each. Later I realized that it was necessary to reward everyone for their work, but “there were enough people,” I was a little scared. I think it's time for me to sleep drinks and it seems
              2. +6
                12 January 2019 02: 33
                Quote: igorbrsv
                I will not look now dictionaries
                But it would be worth it.

                Stratification of society into two camps. External threats. Lack of a leader and a clear plan of action.
                When attempting a coup or revolution, a confrontation is inevitable even within the security forces, and even the people. Not even alone with others
                Socialism (Marxist, not yours) is a system of production relations, the essence of which is the distribution of goods "according to work," which is expressed in the exchange of equal amounts of labor expended on the production of goods and services.

                And as long as such a system of production relations does not exist (and at the present time it does not exist), society is split into two camps, which on a planetary scale generates external threats, and within states - confrontation within the people, divided into "robbed" the majority and the "plundering" minority.

                Thus, the price that you ascribe to the construction of socialism is in fact the price of the existence of capitalism and has nothing to do with socialism.
                1. WW2
                  -6
                  12 January 2019 10: 06
                  Quote: Claymore
                  Socialism (Marxist

                  Do not confuse people with terms. Marx did not exist socialism. He (and Ulyanov) called communism a social society.
                  Socialism is already an invention of Dzhugashvili.
                  Quote: Claymore
                  And as long as such a system of industrial relations does not exist (and at present it does not exist)

                  She will never exist. Marx is a Utopian Communist like Owen, Fourier, and Saint-Simon.
                  1. +3
                    12 January 2019 10: 42
                    Quote: WW2
                    Socialism is already an invention of Dzhugashvili.

                    The term "socialism" was first used in the work of Pierre Leroux, "Individualism and Socialism" (1834), you should study the theory yourself
                    1. WW2
                      -4
                      12 January 2019 10: 47
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      The term "socialism" was first used in the work of Pierre Leroux

                      Well, let there be "socialism in the USSR". Which actually had nothing in common with classical "socialism". Just the words are similar.
                  2. +3
                    12 January 2019 10: 53
                    Quote: WW2
                    Do not confuse people with terms. Marx did not exist socialism. He (and Ulyanov) called communism a social society.
                    Socialism, this is an invention of Dzhugashvili
                    This utopia, this doctrinaire socialism, subordinating the entire movement as a whole to one of its moments, replacing the aggregate, social production with the brain activity of an individual pedant, and, most importantly, eliminating in its imagination with the help of small tricks and great sentimentality the revolutionary struggle of the classes with all its necessary manifestations , this doctrinaire socialism in essence only idealizes modern society, gives a picture of it devoid of shadow sides and tries to realize its ideal contrary to the reality of the same society. And while the proletariat is giving way to this socialism to the petty bourgeoisie, and the struggle between the various socialist leaders reveals that each of the so-called systems is a pretentious emphasis on one of the transitional moments of a social revolution as opposed to the other, the proletariat is more and more united around revolutionary socialism, around communism, which the bourgeoisie itself dubbed the name Blanca. This socialism there is an announcement of a continuous revolution, the class dictatorship of the proletariat as a necessary transitional stage to the elimination of class differences in general, to the destruction of all production relations on which these differences rest, to the destruction of all social relations corresponding to these production relations, to the revolution in all the ideas arising from these public relations.

                    K. Marx, "The Class Struggle in France", Works, 2nd edition, v. 7, p. 91.

                    She will never exist
                    lol

                    1. WW2
                      -3
                      12 January 2019 11: 05
                      Quote: Claymore
                      unites around revolutionary socialism, around communism

                      So I say, the term "socialism" was used by Marx as a characteristic of communism. Leaning on the fact that communism is a social society.
                      "Soviet socialism" had nothing in common with social society and the classical understanding of the term "socialism".
                      1. +1
                        12 January 2019 11: 28
                        Quote: WW2
                        "Soviet socialism" with a social society

                        and with what?
                      2. WW2
                        -3
                        12 January 2019 12: 00
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        and with what?

                        "Soviet socialism" is one of the varieties of slave-owning society functioning on a theocratic (not secular) basis.
                        There were a dime a dozen such "socialisms" on Earth in antediluvian times (at the dawn of centuries).
                        But there was also a peculiarity that "everything around the people, everything around me" (although everything around did not belong just to a co-citizen, but to the "state") did not tryndel in antediluvian times. And this was the main distinguishing feature of "Soviet socialism" from other slave societies.
                      3. +1
                        12 January 2019 11: 30
                        1.
                        From the quote I have quoted, it is obvious that the phrase "socialism did not exist in Marx" and "socialism, this is already an invention of Dzhugashvili" do not correspond to reality (to put it mildly).

                        2.
                        The concept of "social society" is a tautology and appears only in sociology textbooks of the lowest order.

                        And 3nd.
                        The concept of "classical understanding" does not exist in nature - there is the concept of "classical definition" (term).
                      4. WW2
                        -1
                        12 January 2019 12: 03
                        Quote: Claymore
                        From the quote I quoted, it is obvious that the phrase "socialism did not exist in Marx" and "socialism, this is already an invention of Dzhugashvili" do not correspond to reality (to put it mildly).

                        I’m not going to write you the same thing 10 times. Can not understand the first time, read several times.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        The concept of "social society" is a tautology and appears only in sociology textbooks of the lowest order.

                        So then Marx's works are "low-profile sociology textbooks."
                        Quote: Claymore
                        The concept of "classical understanding" does not exist in nature - there is the concept of "classical definition" (term).

                        The definition still needs to be understood. And then you can easily see a fig in a book.

                        And one more thing. You end up with your verbiage. We perfectly understood what and who wanted to say. I see no reason to transfer the same eggs to empty, and in profile.
                      5. +1
                        12 January 2019 13: 34
                        Quote: WW2
                        I’m not going to write you the same thing 10 times
                        Very good - do not write this chukhnik 10 times.

                        So then the works of Marx are "low-profile textbooks of sociology"
                        Does not mean.

                        The definition still needs to be understood. And then you can easily see a fig in a book
                        Yes - but this does not in any way change the fact that the concept of "classical understanding" does not exist in nature.

                        We perfectly understood what and who wanted to say
                        Yes, because you made a statement in a plain text that is not true and I openly called this statement as untrue.
                      6. WW2
                        -3
                        12 January 2019 13: 37
                        Quote: Claymore
                        Yes, because you made a statement in a plain text that is not true and I openly called this statement as untrue.

                        Well, they called, then they called. So they didn’t understand anything. Keep wandering in the darkness of Marxism-Leninism. But we do not need this crazy nonsense.
                      7. -2
                        12 January 2019 14: 20
                        Forgive me for interfering in your highly intellectual conversation. Little remark. Of course, you need to read Marx at least a little bit in order to actually realize what exactly they built or pretended for 70 years. Marx considered the community to be a natural way of life for a person, while denying private property if summarized. So he did not take into account a small detail. Communities that existed in time immemorial were tribal. That is, all members of the community were somehow relatives. With the development of communities, neighboring communities appear and, as a result, private property and classes ... This is actually the end of primitive socialism. In the USSR they tried to take on the responsibilities of the Lord God and raise a new type of person ... The task naturally turned out to be overwhelming. Utopia and Utopia!
                      8. WW2
                        -1
                        12 January 2019 15: 25
                        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
                        Marx certainly need to read

                        What for eyes spoil yourself in vain?
                        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
                        In the USSR they tried to take on the responsibilities of the Lord God and raise a new type of person ... The task naturally turned out to be overwhelming. Utopia and Utopia!

                        Do not tell. A man of a new type (scoop) was brought up after all. The rest failed, but this miracle in places met quite densely. I think that for another 50-100 years of the existence of the USSR, the process would have been irreversible - the USSR would have died out of starvation, to a single person. But he would not refuse socialism.
                      9. 0
                        13 January 2019 09: 51
                        Quote: WW2
                        I think that for another 50-100 years of the existence of the USSR, the process would have been irreversible - the USSR would have died out of starvation, to a single person.
                        After the introductory word "I think" it is necessary to write with caution, otherwise all the nonsense that follows it may be interpreted in favor of the mental disorder of the writer. And the "scoop" was brought up in the 90s, although it can hardly be called a completely new type: the educators turned out to be non-creative anthropotechnicians, although they called themselves a "creative class".
                      10. WW2
                        0
                        13 January 2019 10: 56
                        Quote: sniperino
                        And the "scoop" was brought up in the 90s

                        Scoops were brought up for the first time much earlier. Right, many decades earlier.
                      11. +1
                        13 January 2019 11: 16
                        Quote: WW2
                        For decades, right
                        Name two main features that distinguish your "scoop" from other "types of person" (what?).
                      12. WW2
                        0
                        13 January 2019 15: 53
                        Quote: sniperino
                        Name two main features that distinguish your "scoop" from other "types of person" (what?).

                        Of course, there are no external distinguishing features.
                        I do not like the word. And I use it only for brevity.
                        The Soviets are adherents of the pseudo-religious totalitarian sect "witnesses of socialism" (not to call them SS). With all the consequences from there. The USSR was generally a tough theocratic state. Despite his declared secularism. Only his pseudo-religion (Marxism-Leninism) he called ideology. Therefore, in every possible way he pinched the representatives of traditional religions. In fact, there was such a large sect.
                      13. -1
                        13 January 2019 16: 21
                        Quote: WW2
                        in every possible way tormented representatives of traditional religions
                        Persistence in persecution glorifies believers. And you burned them right on the fires, in the sense, we were so sore that there were not a single temple or mosque in the district?
                      14. WW2
                        -2
                        13 January 2019 16: 30
                        Quote: sniperino
                        And you burned them right on the fires, in the sense, we were so sore that there were not a single temple or mosque in the district?

                        I hope you heard about the destroyed churches (mosques, synagogues, etc.) turned into warehouses and sheds?
                      15. -1
                        13 January 2019 17: 07
                        You yourself probably believe in a bright capitalist future and mistakenly believe that you have the right to offend those who believe in the victory of communism or are nostalgic for socialism. It is in this quality of an insult, "not wasting time reading Marx," that you use this word. Whether you assert yourself or earn cookies, I'm not interested.
                      16. WW2
                        -1
                        13 January 2019 17: 20
                        Quote: sniperino
                        you have the right to insult those who believe in the victory of communism or are nostalgic for socialism.

                        What?
                        Quote: sniperino
                        It is in this quality of an insult, "not wasting time reading Marx", that you use this word.

                        I do not recommend it. Why spoil your eyes in vain?
                      17. 0
                        15 January 2019 17: 54
                        Quote: WW2
                        Scoops were brought up for the first time much earlier.
                        A scoop is a person born in the USSR who was instilled in the 90s with a sense of his own inferiority in connection with his place of residence, clothes, work, salary, etc. To compensate for this unpleasant feeling, which, obviously, does not pass even in emigration, he begins to play a "liberal", spitting on everything that was in the USSR and calling everyone who has the slightest sympathy for this country, its people and way of life "scoops" , trying to show everyone that he is "non-soviet".
                      18. 0
                        15 January 2019 18: 29
                        Quote: sniperino
                        Scoop is
                        PS Among the so-called. "sects of witnesses of communism" are true witnesses who in the USSR quietly studied, worked, enjoyed life, had no problems with the law, started a family, etc., but found themselves in a much worse position in the 90s. What is their "soviet"? In their assessment of the “animal grin of capitalism”? But if he is in many ways animalistic, despite the high-quality equipment.
                      19. -1
                        13 January 2019 19: 20
                        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
                        With the development of communities, neighboring communities appear and, as a result, private property and classes
                        Here the jump is incomprehensible: why should the transition to the neighboring community also be a transition from the commune to private property?
                      20. +3
                        12 January 2019 15: 13
                        Quote: WW2
                        So they didn’t understand anything
                        What I didn’t understand - that this is not the first time you are trying to sniff out the ravings that “socialism did not exist in Marx”? lol

                        "Socialism is a positive self-consciousness of man, no longer mediated by the denial of religion, just as real life is the positive reality of man, no longer mediated by the denial of private property, by communism" (Marx)

                        "Socialism, since it became a science, requires that it be treated as a science, that is, to be studied" (Engels)

                        But you can "twist the hula hoop" a little more, although this will hardly help you save face. laughing
                      21. WW2
                        -1
                        12 January 2019 15: 27
                        Quote: Claymore
                        What i didn't understand

                        That's all, I'm tired of explaining to you. If you do not understand something, then read my comments until you understand. Everything is written there.
                      22. +3
                        12 January 2019 22: 50
                        There is a chushatina written about the fact that "socialism is already an invention of Dzhugashvili" lol
                      23. WW2
                        -3
                        12 January 2019 23: 00
                        Quote: Claymore
                        There is a chushatina written about the fact that "socialism is already an invention of Dzhugashvili"

                        This "chushatina" Dzhugashvili announced in December 1927 at the XIV Congress of the CPSU (b).
                        And in 1936 it was announced that socialism in the USSR was basically built. What was enshrined in the Constitution of the USSR 1936
                        Learn the story.
                      24. +3
                        13 January 2019 07: 06
                        So declared, or invented. laughing

                        And what to do with Marx, for whom "socialism did not exist," but who wrote about socialism?
                      25. WW2
                        -4
                        13 January 2019 10: 57
                        Quote: Claymore
                        And what to do with Marx, for whom "socialism did not exist," but who wrote about socialism?

                        Read what I wrote on this topic to a full understanding. And do not distort.
                      26. +4
                        13 January 2019 11: 28
                        I read and gained a full understanding of what you wrote on this topic.

                        You wrote two main things:
                        1 "Socialism did not exist with Marx";
                        2 "Socialism is already an invention of Dzhugashvili".

                        After that, unsuccessfully turning your back, you added that in December 1927 at the XIV Congress of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) Dzhugashvili declared "this crap" - that is, announced that socialism was his invention.

                        In light of the foregoing, a logical question arises - are you in yourself?
                      27. 0
                        13 January 2019 12: 16
                        Quote: Claymore
                        are you inside
                        He just doesn't understand the word "invention". It would be better if I was beside myself.
                      28. +1
                        13 January 2019 12: 52
                        Quote: Claymore
                        In light of the foregoing, a logical question arises - are you in yourself?

                        Well then these trolls will understand
                      29. WW2
                        -2
                        13 January 2019 15: 56
                        Quote: Claymore
                        In light of the foregoing, a logical question arises - are you in yourself?

                        I have the same question for you. You obviously cannot or do not want to understand what I wrote about before. And I don’t tell you to repeat the same thing 10 times.
                        Although I think you all understand perfectly. But you want to "communicate". I don’t want to.
                        With a compromise, in short.
                      30. +1
                        13 January 2019 21: 34
                        1 It is customary to mark the question with interrogative meaning, intonation or a sign - they are not in your comment.

                        2 You wrote exactly what you wrote - what you meant and what alternative meaning you put in the literal meaning of your text that has been written.
                      31. -1
                        13 January 2019 11: 42
                        Quote: Claymore
                        positive self-awareness no longer mediated by denial of religion
                        How do you interpret this post-atheistic self-consciousness of a communist, or how else can it be called?
                      32. +1
                        13 January 2019 15: 21
                        Quote: Claymore
                        "Socialism, since it became a science, requires that it be treated as a science, that is, to be studied" (Engels)

                        The subject - the political economy of socialism - has always been incomprehensible to me. As it turned out, Stalin, whose name was highlighted in black in the list of authors of the first textbook, considered the textbook "raw".
                        - "Without a theory, we will die" it concerned the political economy of socialism. In my opinion, no one fully understands it.
                      33. WW2
                        -2
                        13 January 2019 15: 57
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        "Without a theory, we will die" was precisely the political economy of socialism. In my opinion, no one fully understands it.

                        She is not anywhere else in the world. Fictional science. For ears drawn to the surrounding reality.
                        Type of scientific communism.
                        And an independent socio-economic formation "socialism".
                      34. +1
                        13 January 2019 21: 40
                        To understand (in a scientific sense) means to formulate, test by practice, and then to structure (what is called - put on the shelves), but this has not been done.
                      35. -3
                        13 January 2019 09: 03
                        Quote: Claymore
                        the concept of "classical understanding" does not exist in nature
                        In nature, there are no concepts at all. But if someone wants to give his understanding the status of "classical", he simply limits the development of his mind, which is the essence of the development of concepts.
                      36. +1
                        13 January 2019 12: 08
                        Quote: sniperino
                        In nature, there are no concepts at all
                        This is a figurative expression.

                        Quote: sniperino
                        How do you interpret this post-atheistic self-consciousness of a communist, or how else can it be called?
                        As an objective perception, freed from the shackles of identifying one's own "I" with things and phenomena that are not part of this "I" - "pure self-awareness."
                      37. -1
                        13 January 2019 12: 33
                        Is there a moment of denial of denial in this "release from the fetters"?
                      38. -2
                        13 January 2019 13: 23
                        PS Denied by the bourgeois self-consciousness ("Kill the reptile!"), The medieval fetters of morality led to the spread of atheism, the separation of church from state. The inventor of socialism used this to bring about a revolution. Happened! Why in the country of "victorious socialism" needed an atheistic ideology? The inventor wrote that socialism is ALREADY NOT mediated by the denial of religion self-consciousness. The immorality of the top (there is an opportunity, there are no "fetters") and became, as I see it, the root cause of the collapse of the USSR. Gorbachev at the pinnacle of power is not an accident, but a natural result.
                      39. -1
                        13 January 2019 13: 37
                        PPS Stalin made, it seems to me, an uncertain step on the path of socialist denial of denial on this issue, but Khrushchev turned back to bourgeois atheism.
                      40. +1
                        13 January 2019 15: 29
                        Quote: sniperino
                        PPS Stalin made, it seems to me, an uncertain step on the path of socialist denial of denial on this issue, but Khrushchev turned back to bourgeois atheism.

                        Stalin was just a man
                      41. -1
                        13 January 2019 18: 50
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Stalin was just a man
                        With this, it is. In addition, Stalin was an Orthodox - he tried to live according to his faith, he also did not go to seminary because of his career opportunity to live richer, hanging others incomprehensible noodles on his ears, then, not finding answers to his questions in the seminary, he believed in Marxism and studied it better than many others, but there were no answers to any questions; and by the year 41, he probably reconciled the teachings of Christ and the teachings of Marx, but he was not ready to make public this denial of denial as the head of the state he had built. It would not be difficult to imagine what this could lead to among revolutionaries, participants in the Civil War and the Communists believing him: they would hardly see this as the development of self-awareness, but rather a double betrayal.
                      42. +2
                        13 January 2019 22: 31
                        Quote: sniperino
                        Is there a moment of denial of denial in this "release from the fetters"?
                        Marx writes that there is.

                        Quote: sniperino
                        PS Denied by the bourgeois consciousness ("Kill the reptile!") Medieval shackles
                        "Kill the reptile" is not a denied bondage.

                        The shackles denied by bourgeois consciousness constitute a hierarchy and rules — anything other than property.

                        Inventor of socialism
                        Marx did not invent socialism or even discover.

                        He also explored capitalism as a conclusion:
                        a) substantiated the inevitability of society coming to a state that is commonly called socialism;
                        b) substantiated that this state and the road to it will differ from the notions called utopian socialism.

                        Why in the country of "victorious socialism" needed an atheistic ideology?
                        It is not needed - it was not there (no one singled out the denial of the deity as a value).

                        But do not forget that consciousness is only a reflection of reality, manifested as a reaction to environmental stimuli, as a result of which changes in consciousness are always late for changes in the environment.

                        The immorality of the top (there is an opportunity, there are no "fetters") and became, as I see it, the primary cause of the collapse of the USSR
                        The USSR did not break up, but was purposefully dismantled.

                        And the reason is the petty-bourgeois nature of the consciousness of both the "upper" and "lower" classes, forcing the former to be grabbers, and the latter to be khataskrains.

                        Quote: sniperino
                        PPS Stalin made, it seems to me, an uncertain step on the path of socialist denial
                        As far as I can tell, in this regard, no rules have changed, and the actions did not go beyond what was originally declared.
                      43. +1
                        13 January 2019 15: 27
                        Quote: Claymore
                        As an objective perception, freed from the shackles of identifying one's own "I" with things and phenomena that are not part of this "I" - "pure self-awareness."

                        can "self-contemplation" ???
                      44. +1
                        13 January 2019 22: 41
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        can "self-contemplation" ???

                        Contemplation = emotional, sensory sensation, the essence of the category of idealism.
                      45. 0
                        13 January 2019 15: 26
                        Quote: sniperino
                        In nature, there are no concepts at all. But if someone wants to give his understanding the status of "classical", he simply limits the development of his mind, which is the essence of the development of concepts.

                        Rave. If you want to give your understanding the status of "classical", defend your doctoral dissertation, write a book, distribute it.
                      46. -1
                        13 January 2019 21: 16
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Quote: sniperino
                        In nature, there are no concepts at all. But if someone wants to give his understanding the status of "classical", he simply limits the development of his mind, which is the essence of the development of concepts.

                        Rave. If you want to give your understanding the status of "classical", defend your doctoral dissertation, write a book, distribute it.
                        And the fact that the era of classicism is long over does not bother you?
                      47. 0
                        13 January 2019 23: 11
                        Quote: sniperino
                        And the fact that the era of classicism is long over does not bother you?

                        No. Classic is always the base. In any era. Only the way of expressing it with respect to the classics or without changes.
                      48. 0
                        14 January 2019 13: 44
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Classic is always the base
                        Whose base is it? There is no universalism in science - no classics. This is not a base, but a haza.
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        with respect to the classics or without
                        The whole spectrum: from idolization to anathema, but eclecticism prevails, both ours and yours, because they have no time to discuss: departmental orders, "projects" need to be worked out, lectures must be read.
                      49. 0
                        14 January 2019 14: 05
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Classic is always the base
                        I understood! "Classics" is, in the sense of a method of communication, non-digital. Is there at least one platform on the Internet with a discussion without topicality, but at the cutting edge of science?
              3. +3
                12 January 2019 09: 49
                Quote: igorbrsv
                I will not look at the dictionaries now. For me, socialism: all power to the people; state land and natural resources; from each according to work, to each according to his deserts.
                The price of construction. The impossibility of building socialism without revolution and coup immediately. The inability to choose all the power structures for themselves for this. Stratification of society into two camps. External threats. Lack of a leader and a clear plan of action.
                When attempting a coup or revolution, a confrontation is inevitable even within the security forces, and even the people. Not even one with the others. Still harder.

                So you don't need to look at dictionaries so that you can write many letters without understanding what is written, you need to read the primary sources to understand what you are writing about yourself! Your phrase "socialism for me" suggests that you are a terry opportunist, such as you killed the USSR.
                "Lack of a leader and a clear plan of action" is generally a masterpiece, would you at least think before writing this. Is there a leader now? Is the plan clear?
                Spill the words socialism, revolution without even understanding their meaning.
                1. 0
                  14 January 2019 14: 41
                  Quote: free
                  you terry opportunist, such as you killed the USSR.
                  It is not necessary to cry that he was killed, but to think why the USSR was defeated, otherwise Russia would not be long.
                  1. 0
                    15 January 2019 08: 19
                    Quote: sniperino
                    Quote: free
                    you terry opportunist, such as you killed the USSR.
                    It is not necessary to cry that he was killed, but to think why the USSR was defeated, otherwise Russia would not be long.

                    Nobody is crying! But the USSR was not defeated, it was betrayed, destroyed by those who were then in power. And many of them, their friends, relatives, are in power now. Why it became possible, too, and was voiced many times. including here in VO.
        3. +4
          12 January 2019 09: 52
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          So the war, especially civil, all - to plunder the winners. All wars because of this and begin.

          Who begins these wars? Who are these people? What are their interests?
        4. +3
          12 January 2019 23: 37
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          So the war, especially civil, all - to plunder the winners. All wars because of this and begin.

          Victor, do you have a lot in civilian knowledge?
      2. +20
        11 January 2019 15: 55
        In this case, the literacy, the revolution was the collapse of the Union, when everyone plundered and plundered. And after the Great October Revolution, in the most difficult conditions and with the constant opposition of ALL Western countries, they made their country the second economy of the world. And the first - the United States did not fight on its territory and printed bucks as an international currency. They still have this freebie, I hope not for long.
        1. -9
          11 January 2019 16: 15
          With the opposition of all Western countries, is it when, with lightning speed with the Germans, they opened up full friendship to chewing gum, and then the American business incurred which was granted concessions?
        2. +1
          12 January 2019 13: 04
          About the "opposition of ALL Western countries" it is especially interesting to consider this opposition in the light of industrialization ... Industrialization was carried out first with German funds, when factories were built in the USSR mainly for military purposes, and the finished products were actually divided, then the funds became American ... And in In both cases, specialists and even skilled workers were sent en masse to the USSR. Enterprises were often simply transported as a whole and installation was carried out on site. Examples - Magnitogorsk Iron and Steel Works, AZLK, Chelyabinsk Tractor, Uralmash, Gorky Automobile Plant ... Is there such opposition? Opposition Gennady Vladimirovich appears now, when sanctions are introduced in all directions. And with Germany and the United States, the USSR in allied mutually beneficial relations was with whom longer, with whom less ...
      3. +5
        11 January 2019 18: 56
        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
        The only thing I would like to supplement the author with is that all revolutions necessarily end with the division of property, theft, theft and the sale quickly and cheaply!

        Exactly - the Neolithic revolution ended precisely with this. laughing
        1. -5
          11 January 2019 23: 40
          How long did it last there, how many generations?
          1. +2
            12 January 2019 02: 53
            Firstly, what difference does it make if the length of the period of revolution has not been worn out and cannot exist in relation to the declared section, stolen, plundered, and sold out?

            Second, it is 35 times smaller than the Paleolithic and its appendix.
            1. 0
              14 January 2019 17: 51
              Quote: Claymore
              what is the difference, if for the declared section, dragging, plundering and selling, the duration of the period of revolution does not have any and cannot have it?
              The difference is that the "Neolithic revolution" is such a metaphor; "scientific revolution" is a different metaphor, but at least some ideological struggle sometimes occurs there. If you don't leave the topic, then any political revolution brings devastation and brings up a lot of muddy foam.
              1. 0
                14 January 2019 19: 22
                The devastation and foam you mentioned are metaphors.

                A revolution is not a metaphor, but a term that refers to the relatively quick (compared to evolution) deep qualitative changes of a progressive nature occurring in public relations.

                Specifically, the Neolithic revolution was the transition from collecting to production, which led to the above changes.

                It should be noted that each revolution is a priori political in nature, because directly related to the interests of groups / classes.

                And the destruction that the revolution leads to is the destruction of previous social relations, and not material objects.
                1. 0
                  14 January 2019 20: 32
                  Quote: Claymore
                  devastation and foam are metaphors
                  Devastation is not a metaphor, but war, stoppage of factories, factories, famine and plunder. And foam is a metaphor, but what else can you call Hodor and many other leaders from the 90s? Than the detachment that occupied the settlement, the soldiers of which burst into the church, mock the employees, repeatedly piercing the abbot with a bayonet, stabbing the fingers of the deacon with a knife, gouging out his eyes, just as brutally killing the third, and then leaving to "expropriate" the food from the population, different from a gang of the same size in 1918? She can take out the foam, otherwise there would have been no cleansing in the 30s (cleansing is also a metaphor).
                  1. -1
                    15 January 2019 08: 37
                    War is a massive armed conflict.
                    The shutdown of enterprises is a situation expressed in the cessation of production.
                    Hunger is a situation resulting in a lack of food, resulting in insufficient calorie intake.
                    Robbery is an open theft of another's property.
                    And devastation is the state of complete destruction.

                    You used the words "devastation" and "foam" in a figurative sense, designating with them the entire "assortment" of negative factors that may manifest themselves in their most acute form after the start of the revolution.
                    And words used in figurative meanings are called metaphors.


                    A revolution is a process of progressive change that destroys only the outdated - it cannot bring ruin or lead to it.
                    The reaction brings ruin (from lat. Re ... “against” + actio “action” - an action that arises in response to some kind of influence), trying to reverse the revolution and turn it into counter-revolution.


                    The events of the 90s and characters like Hodor have nothing to do with the revolution - in the 90s there was a counter-revolution.


                    The described hypothetical detachment can differ from the usual gang only in that the reason for its actions is the similar actions that occurred earlier, committed against the members of this detachment and their relatives, their political opponents, supported by worshipers.


                    But the foam is not carried out by the revolution, but by a reaction that manifests itself in this case through consciousness and stereotypes of behavior that have been inherited from the past.
                    1. 0
                      15 January 2019 13: 23
                      Quote: Claymore
                      A revolution is a process of progressive change that destroys only the outdated - it cannot bring ruin or bring about it ... Events of the 90s and characters like Khodor have nothing to do with the revolution - in the 90s there was a counter-revolution.
                      Who and when determines the fact that the changes are progressive: the electorate, the workers of the strawberry farm, or each one for himself? And when should the fact of survival be ascertained? Is the USSR outdated? Destroyed as a state? The youth of the 60s and 80s for the most part did not know the names of the secretaries of the Central Committee of the Komsomol and other "leaders" (for some reason, they called functionaries in the localities for young people, "leaders" - educators for children and adolescents, although leaders for adults had already been canceled), and in the 80s, Tsoi became the idol of the youth, their hearts demanded changes. But the lower classes did not want to, and the upper classes could not ... could only betray. In tsarist Russia, there were no traitors at the top, or were there few? Or did they live in a friendly neighborhood? But Russia is alive, not completely destroyed, although whoever has not betrayed all the prerequisites for that, and it even resumed integration processes in the Eurasian space. If the enemies howl in chorus, then this is not because we are about to fall apart ourselves, as the alarmists shout, but on the contrary, otherwise they would only encourage us with cookies. And the Union will be with the ideology of social justice, since the idea of ​​profit and personal enrichment here does not go far, but it is definitely different.
      4. 0
        12 January 2019 12: 50
        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
        Yes, what are you saying? Did you count the party nomenclature including all paid Komsomol functionaries with service staff?

        You know, I am sincerely interested in what I wrote the truth. And as many as 20 people gave me cons. So I wonder if these people thought that I was lying or what ?! Or did they invent another USSR for themselves, or did they believe the storytellers? Yes, even in our battalion, while serving in the SA in 1988, there was a sergeant secretary of the Komsomol committee. Released by the way and received as much as 90 rubles. At the headquarters, he was given an office, and he accordingly chose a deputy friend for himself ... That whole day they did not do shit for themselves! We went somewhere to some kind of meeting. We held Komsomol meetings in the club - this was real flour and try to sleep! Then they finally got all annoyed by the fact that each company had to have a stand "Give it! Give it, perestroika!" How was it to be given? Who? And in general, no one knew what these stands should be. There was a proposal that, like, to cancel the formation and go to the dining room in a crowd ... But since our Komsomol members had a close friendship with a special officer, an extremely unpleasant person, no one insisted on rationalization proposals!
        I can also tell Mr. Ize about city officials about Soviet officials. regional committees, district committees ... At the same time, all ministries were supervised by individual representatives of higher party organizations with a whole staff, respectively. In the Moscow City Committee, for example, there were industry sectors and departments in charge of, say, construction. Those. as I understand it, the builders pointed out how to build a house in accordance with Marxism - Leninism? So, what are your disadvantages dear Bolsheviks, I attribute to your deep understanding of all this Soviet disorder, wastefulness of funds for the office apparatus and complete bureaucracy! Thank you for the attention.
        1. 0
          13 January 2019 21: 45
          Quote: Cheslav Czursky
          Soviet carelessness, wastefulness of funds for the party apparatus and complete bureaucracy
          Here the main problem is not to squander money, but that the eighth-grade Komsomol members could not meaningfully use the concepts of ideology by age, but they could use these concepts and this post itself in order to become a notch above classmates; careerists flowed there. Yakovlev, Gorbachev and the whole darkness of perestroika foam left the Komsomol.
          1. 0
            13 January 2019 23: 02
            Quote: sniperino
            Here the main problem is not to squander money, but that the eighth-grade Komsomol members could not meaningfully use the concepts of ideology by age, but they could use these concepts and this post itself in order to become a notch above classmates; careerists flowed there. Yakovlev, Gorbachev and the whole darkness of perestroika foam left the Komsomol.

            This is true only at first glance ... but the key word in your comment is to meaningfully operate the concepts of ideology. The fact is that after the death of Comrade Stalin, at the top of the government, there were no ideologically minded people ... The country's leader was the main ideologist. He was not interested in individualistic people, even if successful, he was interested in observing the results of collective labor. The most adequate, best, leader of a socialist country was a man who put his life in the service of his country. Many, even careerists, were forced to copy his manner of running the country and as a result there was growth. With the departure of Stalin, power was seized by people who did not understand the essence but who repeated common dogmas, which from frequent repetition lost their meaning and were rejected by the consciousness of normal people, but, accordingly, eight-graders smile
            an individual decision is better than a collegiate one, in that there are no compromises characteristic of the group.
            1. 0
              14 January 2019 18: 51
              Quote: aybolyt678
              This is true only at first glance ... but the key word in your comment is to meaningfully operate the concepts of ideology. The fact is that after the death of Comrade Stalin, at the top of the government, there were no ideologically minded people
              With this post I am almost ready to agree, if not for this contradiction. If even among adults who were not the most stupid people who stood in high positions in the administration of the USSR, there were no ideologically thinking ones, then what is "true only at first glance"? If instead of the words "here the main problem is not squandering funds, but ..." you write that the most massive flow of careerists to the authorities was organized through the Komsomol agents, and this is more important than funds, will you not argue?
              PS I accidentally poked a minus, now I’ll return it somewhere.
    3. -12
      11 January 2019 16: 03
      In the USSR, the party nomenclature was unmeasured.
      1. +1
        13 January 2019 23: 05
        Quote: Trouble
        In the USSR, the party nomenclature was unmeasured.

        measured. and easily counted. And the party nomenclature did not allow large distortions in the field. The whole collapse went from the top.
        1. 0
          14 January 2019 15: 11
          Quote: aybolyt678
          And the party nomenclature did not allow large distortions in the field.

          If she herself did not cause these distortions.
          Quote: aybolyt678
          The whole collapse went from the top.

          And what was up there? And at the top were the Congress and the Central Committee of the CPSU.
      2. -1
        14 January 2019 08: 16
        Quote: Trouble
        In the USSR, the party nomenclature was unmeasured.

        NOW IT IS NOT FOR that in every region a crowd of ministries and ministers
    4. +15
      11 January 2019 16: 05
      Quote: izya top
      Why was the number of officials throughout the Union less than in today's Russia?

      because family ties and corruption make it possible to expand this apparatus, perhaps even ad infinitum.
      1. 0
        11 January 2019 16: 59
        In this case, this is - all power to the people wassat
        1. +7
          11 January 2019 17: 15
          Quote: igorbrsv
          In this case, this is - all power to the people

          Well, not everyone can be officials! Someone needs to work!
          1. +6
            11 January 2019 17: 35
            I’ll think about politics ...
            Well, no. I’d better go and work, otherwise bad thoughts will start to go into my head drinks
            1. +2
              11 January 2019 17: 41
              Quote: igorbrsv
              I’ll think about politics ...
              Well, no. I'd rather go work,

              about politics it’s better to talk about beer with fish
              1. -8
                11 January 2019 17: 45
                Quote: Silvestr
                about politics it’s better to talk about beer with fish

                This is only if you know how to talk with fish wink laughing
                1. +2
                  11 January 2019 17: 49
                  Quote: Consultant
                  This is only if you know how to talk with fish

                  and if there is not much beer
    5. -6
      11 January 2019 16: 20
      Well, that’s the logical result of the bourgeois revolution, made once again according to recipes from the mound, both in February 1917 and in October 1917! So revolution is a tool to destroy a competitor, in the simplest case. hi
      1. +11
        11 January 2019 16: 49
        Quote: Trouble
        In the USSR, the party nomenclature was unmeasured.

        less than now at times.
    6. Underwater hunter
      +1
      11 January 2019 19: 35
      Quote: iza top
      I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?

      This is just one of the indicators that clearly characterize modern Russia.
  3. +13
    11 January 2019 15: 15
    There are a lot of questions, but the answer is, as it were, one - People want in a fair society! - further the field for discussion, disagreement .... they don’t see the end of the region!
    1. +17
      11 January 2019 15: 26
      So in the West, the "just society" is only for the reason that so far they dominate and rob the whole world. Their dominance will end and their standard of living will plummet
      1. +4
        11 January 2019 20: 23
        Quote: Hypersound
        So in the West, the "just society" is only for the reason that so far they dominate and rob the whole world. Their dominance will end and their standard of living will plummet

        And let's not consider everyone in the west as stupid. They learned to do things differently, and hold on to this, despite their many misconduct and decisions, which we consider to be not very smart ....
        Time will judge us and them .... if we survive, all together, of course.
        1. +2
          11 January 2019 20: 41
          Did I write about their stupidity? Genius and villainy - two things are completely compatible
          1. +2
            11 January 2019 20: 55
            They actually learned to rob, but so, if they don’t say thanks to them, they don’t directly blame them. This is the skill of prestidigitating, building illusions .... they will not fall apart, they will not go bankrupt in a simple and quick way, unless they themselves begin to do stupid things.
    2. -4
      11 January 2019 15: 52
      But really? ... Why can't people live rightly even in their own family, with their relatives. They gnaw in politics, divide square meters and money, more than half of families fall apart ... Do not idealize people, it always ends badly, well, if not by the Lynch Court, which is also popular, and even civilized.
      1. +17
        11 January 2019 16: 08
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        Why can't people live righteously even in their family, with their relatives.

        it depends on the upbringing of the family, the relationship to each other
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        They bite as in politics, divide square meters and money, more than half of the families split up ..

        so what dozung moved - "Get rich !!!". So they kill each other, but not comparable to a communist / socialist day. Then - "Man is man's friend, comrade and brother."
        Previously, it was possible to travel around the Union without fear to where the hosh was, and now to go across Russia - you think!
        1. +5
          11 January 2019 20: 35
          Quote: Silvestr
          "Man is man's friend, comrade and brother."

          So far, no one has been able to radically change the nature of man ..... forcible correction is not for long and under special special conditions!
          The time has not come, the world should change radically, the person has not matured, t.s. ..... it will happen, naturally, evolve, but it will be later.
          1. -6
            11 January 2019 23: 44
            So, sprouts of a new civilization - gender differences are erased, the institution of the family in the classical sense is leaving, openness, mobility, and the broadest access to information are in fashion.
            What is not a new civilization for you?
            1. +1
              13 January 2019 15: 31
              Quote: Mestny
              What is not a new civilization for you?

              this is not a new civilization .. this is the sunset of the old
              1. -2
                13 January 2019 15: 34
                Before the arrival of the new, the old always sets in.
                You can choose which explanation of these processes is closer to you.
                However, I do not claim. that this is precisely the beginning of a new civilization. It is likely that civilizations, in principle, cannot be replaced without destruction and cataclysms, such as global wars.
            2. WW2
              -2
              13 January 2019 16: 01
              Quote: Mestny
              gender differences are erased, the institution of the family in the classical sense is leaving, openness, mobility, and the broadest access to information are in fashion.
              What is not a new civilization for you?

              Maybe you are right.
              But all this is scary.
              Especially modern gender relationships.
      2. +14
        11 January 2019 16: 28
        Quote: Victor Kamenev

        Really? ... Why can't people live righteously even in their own family?

        Yes, sir, you simply do not know life, if you think so. People were deliberately divided by property qualification. In the family, any scandals and quarrels flare up only on the basis of a miserable existence.
        Can you say why the state pays for equal work of equal-duty public sector workers in different ways? This was not the case in the USSR, the size of the salary varied depending on the climatic zones and "savagery". And now what happens? By creating relative political calm in Moscow, the government keeps salaries 3-4 times higher than in the regions. What for? Why should beggars pay for the capital's lust and depravity?
        1. -7
          11 January 2019 18: 07
          Moscow pays for itself - all the same, the GDP of Moscow and the region is 27 trillion rubles a year, and salaries are 3-4 times higher, in Moscow it’s good if one third of the population receives it.
          1. +5
            11 January 2019 20: 48
            Tales about the "hard worker" have been told about the capital for a long time. Earlier, just a grain of truth was a little more ... now only to examine in a microscope or wear rose-colored glasses.
            1. -5
              11 January 2019 23: 49
              Such a property division between the capital and the regions is by the way the clearest evidence of the fundamental inequality of individual members of society.
              It is impossible to change, at least in the next couple of centuries.
              And this "metropolitan" phenomenon is just a consequence of the actions of people with different qualities. Competition.
              By the way, the same picture was in the USSR. the truth is somewhat smoothed by a powerful ideological apparatus, which assured that all people are equal.
            2. -4
              12 January 2019 11: 56
              And this is for yours - however, in Moscow there are about 1000 institutes, design bureaus, tens of thousands of industries - everything from pins, to the production of TVEL nuclear fuel - at the Kashirsky Chasse, Kamov helicopters, satellites, etc. - but even more is the service sector, probably 60 percent of the total GDP of Moscow and the region for the year.
        2. +4
          11 January 2019 20: 44
          Quote: ROSS 42
          People were deliberately divided by property qualification. In the family, any scandals and quarrels flare up only on the basis of a miserable existence.

          This was \ is \ will be everywhere and always, and poverty is only one of the reasons. The degree \ multiplicity varies, also for various reasons. Such a society has never been built by anyone, nor has Schob found any reason for disagreement! A person is not ready yet, has not grown to such a thing.
          It will be, most likely, but then, if a person does not stop in his development.
        3. -1
          13 January 2019 22: 31
          Quote: ROSS 42
          In the family, any scandals and quarrels flare up only on the basis of a miserable existence.
          So Abramovich and his wife divorced ... Beggar.
      3. +4
        11 January 2019 20: 25
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        people cannot live fair

        People live differently .... and there are more than one reasons for that.
      4. +3
        12 January 2019 09: 39
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        But really? ... Why can't people live rightly even in their own family, with their relatives. They gnaw in politics, divide square meters and money, more than half of families fall apart ... Do not idealize people, it always ends badly, well, if not by the Lynch Court, which is also popular, and even civilized.

        So tell us why do you think people squabble for square meters? Why do they divide meters in the parking lot? Why are they overwhelmed by loans? Why do families break up?
        You are trying to use these phenomena of public life as proof of your innocence without explaining their occurrence, which is fundamentally wrong. We are waiting for your comments.
  4. -3
    11 January 2019 15: 16
    and if Russia survives a new revolutionary turning point and at the same time reflects the external threat of the United States and NATO, some fundamentally unpredictable Russia will be born today. Unless, of course, survives, which is not a fact.

    Very sober remark. Just not everyone thinks about it.
    1. +17
      11 January 2019 15: 24
      Quote: Less
      and if Russia survives a new revolutionary turning point and at the same time reflects the external threat of the United States and NATO, some fundamentally unpredictable Russia will be born today. Unless, of course, survives, which is not a fact.

      Very sober remark. Just not everyone thinks about it.
      Reply
      Quote
      A complaint

      ---------------------------------
      The homeland will be defended by the Reds. The guards will protect only the oligarchs. The oligarchs will sit quietly in neutral Switzerland. Or do you think everyone will sit in one trench?
      1. -9
        11 January 2019 15: 41
        Quote: Altona
        The homeland will be defended by the Reds. The guards will protect only the oligarchs. The oligarchs will sit quietly in neutral Switzerland. Or do you think everyone will sit in one trench?

        I believe that both "red" and "guard" and "green" and others - yes, will sit in the same trenches. Just like in some trenches there will be a manager with a plumber, and a tractor driver with a limousine driver. Most because there is such a concept - Homeland. Some part because everyone will be "rowing". The oligarchs won't turn up. What's the point with them? But even in Switzerland there will be only those who will be there at the moment when everything starts. Then no one will choose. I think there is no point in envy for those who find themselves outside the borders of neutral countries. And those who will stay here ... It is unlikely that they will be fooled for a long time. They will find where to attach. It is hard to believe in stupid oligarchs, and good brains in a difficult one for the good of the Motherland will only work for the good. Only supervision is needed.
        Quote: Altona
        The homeland will be defended by the Reds.

        And one more thing ... Do you really think that after the revolution, it will be easier for those who survived, no matter the "red" or the "guards", to defend the Motherland (or what remains of it) alone? The enemy will not become weaker during this time. On the contrary ...
        1. +14
          11 January 2019 15: 49
          Quote: Less
          Do you really think that after the revolution, it will be easier for those who survived, no matter the "red" or the "guard", to defend the Motherland (or what will remain of it) alone? The enemy will not become weaker during this time. On the contrary ...

          --------------------------------------
          Once again, do not confuse revolution and civil war. Rich owners will impose it on you in any way. I believe that with such a situation as it is now, the Homeland will not soon remain with us even within the framework of the former RSFSR. The USSR, as a homeland, we have already lost. Now for the bourgeoisie it is no longer important whether or not the Russian Federation remains. They spit on the people from a large bell tower and this is their common position, not single reservations.
          1. -7
            11 January 2019 16: 04
            Quote: Altona
            The USSR, as a homeland, we have already lost.

            For some, the Russian Empire was the homeland. She was lost too. And the USSR was built on its wreckage. And it was also difficult. Build.
            Quote: Altona
            Now for the bourgeoisie it is no longer important whether or not the Russian Federation remains.

            I don’t care what is important for the bourgeoisie and what is not. I have no other homeland. Nobody is waiting for me abroad, and I myself do not aspire there. Therefore, to the best of my abilities and capabilities I will equip the homeland that exists. I did not choose her. I just have it.
            Quote: Altona
            Once again, do not confuse revolution and civil war. Rich owners will impose it on you in any way.

            That is precisely why I am against the revolution. There was not a single revolution after which Russia would immediately become stronger. It was always first to break everything - and then rebuild. And now, I’m afraid, they will not be able to rebuild. Therefore, if you want to change the system, power, whatever - change through evolution, not shocks.
        2. +5
          11 January 2019 16: 31
          Quote: Less
          And yet ... do you really think that after the revolution, those who survive, it doesn't matter "red" or "guards", to defend the Motherland (or what will be left of it) will it be easier alone? The enemy will not become weaker during this time.

          One thing is clear, if they take less from the cordon from Russia, it will be much easier. How to do it? Easier than they are talking about at SPIEF. Much easier.
      2. +2
        11 January 2019 15: 52
        The "guards" will go ahead of us. They are the same citizens. They have the same wives and children. And the oligarchs are a woman with a cart it is easier for a mare
        1. +2
          12 January 2019 02: 05
          Quote: igorbrsv

          The "guards" will go ahead of us.

          And to whom do you consider yourself? Sorry)
          1. +4
            12 January 2019 02: 10
            To a military citizen of the Russian Federation
            1. +3
              12 January 2019 02: 26
              Then I have no complaints, but I doubt that computer bots will go ahead of us) Even, for example, in the dill, the National Bats (still real, not virtual people, though frostbitten) shout most of all, but they aren’t on the front line, oddly enough ))) But where you can get something to eat - here they are first) the guards on the forums, in my opinion, from the same opera, just hide in the virtual machine. And on the dill frontier, ordinary contract soldiers, conscripts 9 (it’s not strange) and variegated comrade soldiers of fortune from around the world, by the way, there are a lot of dashing snipers among them. Something like this...
              1. +3
                12 January 2019 02: 43
                Maybe. I have not been to war. I will not call myself a daredevil. But if they say it is necessary, then it is necessary. Had to say goodbye to life more than once
      3. -19
        11 January 2019 15: 57
        Who are the Reds? Communist Party with strawberry-red Gridinin, deputy Voronchenkov, who fell in Kiev in a gangster showdown? Generals and soldiers Karbyshevs will always just defend Russia, Gumilev defended Russia, is he also "red"?
        1. +15
          11 January 2019 16: 00
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          Who are the Reds? The Communist Party of the Russian Federation with strawberry-red Gridinin, deputy Voronchenkov, who fell in Kiev in a gang war?

          ---------------------------
          The Communist Party is a systemic opposition, that is, an element of the current government. Does the current government embed in its system those who really threaten it? Do you want like in Paris? laughing
          1. -4
            11 January 2019 17: 58
            In my opinion, no one here is against socialism. Is the question now? And what is the action plan? I don’t care who collects the meeting and throws it into the embrasure. Who will manage this and does he have a clear plan of action and expected consequences? It would be so, perhaps in one trench we will find ourselves, and you, and Less, and Kamenev, and the rest. I would not like it posthumously
            1. -2
              13 January 2019 12: 33
              The main question is what socialism will be like in the current realities — well, they will shake 2 trillion rubles from all businessmen every year for the needs of the state, but one hell will not change anything, salaries will not be anymore, as well as pensions, even if they reduce 60% all the officials, the locksmith Uncle Vasya, both drank and scored for work, will drink and hammer, will the products get cheaper - no, gas will be cheaper - why would the state take 70% of the cost of gas for the same expenses, one fig not enough for everyone and someone will have to sacrifice.
        2. +10
          11 January 2019 16: 37
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          Communist Party with Strawberry Red Gridinin

          Why are you, the namesake of a not-so-good person, distorting the names of people who have not done anything bad for the country? Was Gumilev bequeathing to you? He left:
          On the walls of an empty house
          Cold shadows run through
          And powerless gnomes cry
          In the silence of their new possessions ...

          ... their sick and weak bodies
          Trembling in longing and languor
          Since the owner was gone
          In this formerly laughing house.

          The dusk of the rooms of abandoned souls
          The silence is sadder with every moment
          Their owner was strangled by them.
          In the dark of a gothic bedroom.

          1. 0
            14 January 2019 19: 07
            Quote: ROSS 42
            Was Gumilev bequeathing to you?
            It was about the son of the author of lines so disagreeable to you, but it is the same for you, that science, that poetry.
        3. +5
          11 January 2019 17: 43
          You don’t seem to understand, Russia is a people! The people in their time chose the red project and now many people support it. I decipher the red project is social justice first of all, and then everything else and democracy and freedom.
          1. -4
            11 January 2019 23: 54
            What do you think of social justice? In two sentences.
            Take everything from the oligarchs, and honestly share?
            1. +2
              12 January 2019 00: 31
              "A just person and a just society are those who can find a moral measure in the distribution of benefits and hardships, and such a measure that suits everyone and for which the consent of those whose share bears the most hardships is obtained can be considered moral."
        4. -1
          12 January 2019 19: 11
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          Who are the Reds? Communist Party with strawberry-red Gridinin, deputy Voronchenkov, who fell in Kiev in a gangster showdown? Generals and soldiers Karbyshevs will always just defend Russia, Gumilev defended Russia, is he also "red"?

          It’s just that Russia doesn’t and cannot be, don’t try to substitute concepts! What is Russia simply, it is Russia that does not have a single sign, there is not a single characteristic feature. Is it really so? Not at all! Ask anyone and you will be called many Russia is weak politically and economically, high taxes with low salaries and beggarly pensions, theft and embezzlement of money, nepotism and drugs with prostitution, lawlessness and omnipotence of oligarchs and bureaucrats, children are treated by the country through SMS, territorial concessions, active monopolization of all sectors of the economy monuments to enemies are so enemies for the overwhelming majority (and this is betrayal), etc. Are these not characteristic features indicating that it is not just Russia, it is bourgeois Russia. But it has become so not by itself, but by the efforts of a certain circle of persons. Summing up, Russia is simply impossible, because simply power is not possible! Power rules Russia and this power is a damned, insatiable bourgeois.
          1. 0
            15 January 2019 13: 42
            Quote: free
            Russia, this is bourgeois Russia
            Is China a bourgeois China, or is this sign far from paramount for the Chinese, and they do not notice any regression, and unifiedly identify their homeland in history as a cultural-state entity, despite the change in its territorial borders and political regimes?
            1. -1
              15 January 2019 19: 40
              Quote: sniperino
              Quote: free
              Russia, this is bourgeois Russia
              Is China a bourgeois China, or is this sign far from paramount for the Chinese, and they do not notice any regression, and unifiedly identify their homeland in history as a cultural-state entity, despite the change in its territorial borders and political regimes?

              What do you know about China except that it is bourgeois?
        5. 0
          14 January 2019 19: 16
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          Who are the Reds? The Communist Party of the Russian Federation with strawberry-red Gridinin, deputy Voronchenkov, who fell in Kiev in a gang war?
          I have long had a suspicion that Mr. Grudinin donated money to the site and put it here. watching the administrator of his person so that the bots do not dump.
      4. -5
        11 January 2019 18: 12
        And all the frustrated revolutionaries and any rabble will be crushed by trucks, armored personnel carriers and special equipment - since these guys have no use for the state and society.
        1. -8
          11 January 2019 23: 58
          So it will be too late, crush. The country will be gone.
          Many of them will then tear their hair on themselves - how did it happen, we were sure that we were fighting evil.
          But - it will be too late. And then the west will finally breathe freely. The centuries-old spiritual enemy can finally be finally finished off.
          And those former "revolutionaries, who are smarter, will be able to partially leave for the victorious civilization. And how parsley at the fair will surprise the Western public with deep Russian culture. Bleating at the same time about the tragic history of wars in general and the need to get rid of them. And the Western public and Western scientists they will agree with them, and say that now there will be no wars, but there will be continuous development, and cities on Mars, and they will also lament what great culture humanity has lost, and how it is necessary to preserve its remains in museums.
          1. +3
            12 January 2019 00: 39
            Do you think the revolutionaries are bad? They destroy everything. You understand the danger of revolution, but oligarchs and officials do not understand. And they don’t see where the country is heading. Are you sure that if everything is as the oligarchs want, the country will be able to survive? So I'm not sure they will sell it without revolution.
            1. +4
              12 January 2019 02: 12
              Quote: Campanella
              Do you think the revolutionaries are bad? They destroy everything. You understand the danger of revolution, but oligarchs and officials do not understand. And they don’t see where the country is heading. Are you sure that if everything is as the oligarchs want, the country will be able to survive? So I'm not sure they will sell it without revolution.

              The oligarchs are leading everything to a new bourgeois "revolution", but in fact it will be a new division of Russia, and these guardians, like a priest, keep repeating: "revolution is death", but their masters gave them to the slaughter long ago.
            2. -4
              12 January 2019 11: 57
              It rolls only with you - with us it does not develop quickly, but still.
              1. +2
                12 January 2019 15: 20
                It is developing, but somehow specifically, the gap between rich and poor is growing, and this does not bode well.
                1. -2
                  13 January 2019 12: 42
                  The gap between rich and poor is growing - of course it is growing, because someone works in several areas, and someone does nothing and most importantly does not want to do half of the 19 million poor people who work, who are the rest? In a market economy, the poor and the rich will always be, moreover, this is also connected with the person himself - he is physically unable to do this or that job, education does not allow him to do well-paid work.
                  1. 0
                    13 January 2019 12: 54
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    The gap between rich and poor is growing - of course it is growing, because someone works in several directions

                    Abramovich or Khodorkovsky?
                  2. +2
                    13 January 2019 22: 50
                    Half of the 19 million are unemployed. But can it be said that it is their fault entirely, no.
                    And it turns out that capitalism is no better than feudalism, neither the rights nor the work.
                    Therefore, socialism is a real step forward.
                    1. WW2
                      -4
                      13 January 2019 23: 35
                      Quote: Campanella
                      it turns out that capitalism is no better than feudalism, neither the rights nor the work.

                      Scoops always get some kind of weirdness.
                      Quote: Campanella
                      Therefore, socialism is a real step forward.

                      Of course, who is arguing?
                      See how Cuba and North have really "stepped forward" Korea. Especially in comparison with the South. Korea.
                      Teeth on the shelf soon put. And China would already be half extinct if Dan had not at one time ended socialist insanity.
                      1. -1
                        14 January 2019 08: 18
                        Quote: WW2
                        See how they really "stepped forward"

                        arguing with you is useless
                        I can offer another comparison
                        the first space flight, the first nuclear power plant ....
                      2. 0
                        14 January 2019 21: 51
                        You are like a child, so that socialism can manifest itself, it also needs resources, and they are in the hands of the capitalists.
          2. -2
            12 January 2019 11: 59
            It will not be you anymore, and Russia, as it was, will continue to grow and develop.
  5. +3
    11 January 2019 15: 24
    CCCP-2 is impossible, because the Kremlin will not re-build the "union of peoples", including all Asian and others. But "Mini-USSR2", an alliance of Slavic countries (Russia, Novorossia, Belarus, Transnistria, as well as South Ossetia and Abkhazia, as exceptions, they need to be protected from Georgia, plus Alaska as the restoration of historical justice) is not just possible, but such the scenario was written decades ago and will inevitably be implemented, as the cycle of Rothschild domination ends and now the Rockefeller cycle begins, under which, in fact, Russia is located
    1. +9
      11 January 2019 15: 47
      Quote: Hypersound
      but such a scenario was written decades ago and will inevitably be implemented

      but we will not see it
      1. 0
        11 January 2019 16: 10
        Why so? Very soon
        1. +10
          11 January 2019 16: 11
          Quote: Hypersound
          Why so? Very soon

          really? Who will do this?
    2. -3
      11 January 2019 18: 14
      Alaska has long been not ours, there are very few Russians there - so by.
      1. 0
        11 January 2019 18: 25
        It does not matter. There are so many minerals, especially oil, that the Kremlin will naturally take it back
    3. +2
      11 January 2019 18: 44
      Read the book of General Kuropatkin about the Russo-Japanese War, where Russia is explained quite clearly, and later the Russian Empire fought for centuries in the Baltic, Transcaucasia and Central Asia.
      Just a general with military bluntness rejecting all sorts of beautiful arguments (economics and others) explains why the Russian army came to those lands.
    4. +3
      11 January 2019 19: 20
      Quote: Hypersound
      the Rothschild dominance cycle ends and the Rockefeller cycle begins

      After which there will be a cycle of dominance of reptilians, but the cycle of domination of punitive psychiatry will put an end to everything.
      1. -2
        11 January 2019 19: 58
        No, after that, in theory, the son of God, having deceived the Rockefellers, will destroy both them and the Rothschilds, and the apocalypse will come with the end of the world, God's judgment and eternal life of people. Let's see how it turns out
        1. +4
          12 January 2019 03: 07
          So I am about the same.

          Punitive psychiatry will ruin everything - the court will direct it for treatment, haloperidol injections will contribute to enlightenment and the revelation that follows it, and the orderly will turn off the light.
    5. -1
      11 January 2019 22: 44
      Alaska is legitimately sold by the Russian Empire. Americans live there, whose level of patriotism is higher than the average American. Do not drag her here.
      1. 0
        11 January 2019 22: 53
        Firstly, not sold, but rented. Secondly, no one is going to take it away from the USA, but as the USA breaks up and Alaska declares independence, then we will have every right to shelter it at home
        1. -2
          12 January 2019 00: 15
          It was sold, not rented. Russian newspapers and magazines of that time freely wrote about this, and our government did not hide this fact from its subjects. The United States, with all the negative attitude towards the politics of its elite, will not fall apart. As Russia does not fall apart, China does not fall apart.
    6. -5
      12 January 2019 00: 03
      Congratulations. This is practically Hitler’s plan. Then it turns out that in the Russian Federation there are also many non-Slavic peoples, which are also not needed in our state.
  6. +8
    11 January 2019 15: 25
    USSR will be !! But in a different form and not very soon! Until ONLY the only ala king does not remain the owner of EVERYTHING! And then there will be ala revolution. Marx-Lenin .... he is in Africa Marx-Lenin. The law of philosophy. And a new round of history IN NEW.
  7. +6
    11 January 2019 15: 26
    Can you endlessly discuss the topic "Is the USSR 2 Possible or Not"? But I want to note one serious fact that is rarely noticed: In the 20th century, Russia could build something serious on its geospace only during periods of crisis in Europe and the rest of the capital world ... In the 20th century, these were two periods at the end of both world wars, the 20s and 50s - during these time periods, the rest of the world did not seriously care about Russia.
    And in other eras, of course, you can try to build something in Russia - at least the USSR 2, at least Russia 3 - but who can you build!
    1. +9
      11 January 2019 15: 58
      It is a not taken with permission, Selevc.
    2. -18
      11 January 2019 15: 59
      Att sure, now situevina, when the horses at the crossing can not be changed!
      1. +15
        11 January 2019 16: 43
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        Att sure, now situevina, when the horses at the crossing can not be changed!

        Now the situation is more like:
        "Shoot down horses, aren't they?"
        1. -4
          11 January 2019 18: 13
          The driven one even weaves itself. If you shoot, you will have to drag both the horse (to devour later) and the convoy. Let it drag until it dies
      2. +11
        11 January 2019 16: 55
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        Att sure, now situevina, when the horses at the crossing can not be changed!

        if it was your will, you would continue to ride on these "zombokons" to the "bright future" ...
        1. +7
          11 January 2019 17: 48
          if it was your will, you would continue to ride on these "zombokons" to the "bright future" ...
          Yeah !! laughing Such a "applied necromancy"!

          Moreover, the author at the same time recognizes the value of passionarity for the development of society, and at the same time celebrates stagnation! Some kind of service to the two gods, right ...
          1. -6
            12 January 2019 00: 09
            The author is trying to tell you that you have no other horses, no matter what they seem to you.
            If you get rid of them, the desert will devour you.
      3. -5
        11 January 2019 18: 17
        And now no one is going to change them, in the 2024th - elections and a new president with a new government.
      4. -2
        11 January 2019 18: 21
        And who will change horses? Dedicated to VO? here half from Ukraine or Belarus to the rolling communists of course against Putin and a handful of "real communists". In Russia, it is rare to find people to whom you sell the USSR.
      5. +4
        11 January 2019 19: 23
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        Now situevina, when the horses at the crossing can not be changed!

        What about donkeys?
        1. -5
          12 January 2019 00: 10
          No one. There is no time, and there is no one to change.
          1. +4
            12 January 2019 03: 26
            Who does not have time, for what, and where are we going?
      6. 0
        12 January 2019 18: 47
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        Att sure, now situevina, when the horses at the crossing can not be changed!

        The author climbs out of his way defending the bourgeois authorities, but the misfortune does not heed the people to his entreaties, the people want justice. The author is already trying to denigrate socialism and that way, but he does not heed the people. The poor author, his attempts are vain and absurd.
    3. -4
      11 January 2019 18: 15
      And most importantly, what to build on?
  8. +17
    11 January 2019 15: 28
    The general message of the article is to prevent people from thinking what could happen if ... the main thing is not to rock the boat. Enemies around us, we must unite.
    A bright future will certainly come, but we must tolerate.
    I understand that for such words I will be immediately assigned to the liberals. But it is impossible to scoff at the people as our government does. The power of the colonialists if only.
    1. +11
      11 January 2019 15: 56
      The power of the colonialists if only. Only the colonizers are external, and these are not very smart servants. An example is the capture of the aluminum industry, but there are many examples.
      1. 0
        11 January 2019 19: 04
        You can’t argue with the lack of clever management within the country, but I have doubts about the colonial servants.
        I’ll try to explain. I need to remember the return of the Crimea and some nuances with these related ones.
        Prepared, clearly, reconnaissance worked; resistance was not expected.
        Pay attention to any footage of the movement of troops of the patrols neither in front nor from the flanks, caterpillar equipment on trawls and other trifles are visible. And here the West is afraid of returning the Crimea very much, and such a fright will not forgive Putin for diarrhea.
        It’s bad that the government primarily protects the interests of exporters and bankers, it’s noticeable that they are neither industry nor science, but drivers of oil and gas abroad. and all that is possible at the forefront, but from this and other tricks little professional government.
    2. -3
      12 January 2019 00: 15
      yes what kind of liberals are there ...
      Of course around us are friends. with which you need to negotiate.
      Only now ... they agree somehow strange - give all your land and all. and cattle. and wife. and take off your shirt. gradually. not right away. And then do what you want. If you want, die, just don’t get under your feet.
      Of the first lovers to agree was Gorbachev.
      Then Yeltsin - almost everyone died by the end of the 90s.
      And then all of a sudden you see, our Western friends grunted something, waved their fists, imposed sanctions in batches (well, as you know, this is nonsense, it does not affect anything).
      Interesting - what's wrong?
      It seems that they assure us here that Putin is from the same Yeltsins, that is, the oligarchs.
  9. +13
    11 January 2019 15: 39
    Putin's lads will not give up without a fight.
    1. -4
      11 January 2019 18: 18
      Do not worry. Suggest an alternative. If a revolution. That is a leader and an action plan. In general, your revolution will be doomed to failure without the support of the security forces. Do you have something to convince?
    2. -6
      11 January 2019 18: 21
      One fig is bigger than us and despite all sorts of economic turmoil and unpopular laws - everyone needs calm and stability, as well as work.
    3. -3
      12 January 2019 00: 16
      Are you ready to wave a real saber in battle?
  10. +14
    11 January 2019 15: 41
    Let's leave it as it is ... We will not change anything. Bourgeois power and money, the people of poverty and insecurity. Why is only revolution considered? Is it really impossible without a revolution to come to power legally through elections. It is possible and necessary! All communist parties adhering to the views of Lenin and Stalin should unite in one opposition communist party, and not play the opposition as it is happening now, and then, I am sure, we communists will win elections without revolutions, and the table will be without shocks. Is it impossible to create a new USSR? Maybe! Perhaps through, as I said, the unification of all communist parties. When creating the new USSR, the oligarchs will definitely stick in the wheels. But the oligarchs can be put in place, but most likely the oligarchs and other bourgeois will flee to their London, Paris, Washington. I am sure that the majority of people will support the creation of a new USSR.
    1. -1
      11 January 2019 18: 23
      Even the same Zyuganov could lead such a coalition at first. And if Putin does not propose a successor, Zyuganov will have every chance of winning the election. If he survives. Does everyone trust him now?
    2. +11
      11 January 2019 19: 05
      I agree with you. Except for one, the bourgeoisie without blood will not give back the loot.
    3. +5
      11 January 2019 20: 29
      I do not think that the capitalists will raise their paws and surrender without a fight.
      There will be no fair elections, then a property qualification has long existed. And they will not let the opposition unite.
      Only the option of conspiracy is possible and an already strong party enters the political arena.
      1. +4
        11 January 2019 22: 57
        Quote: Campanella
        And in they will not let the opposition unite.
        Only the option of conspiracy is possible and an already strong party enters the political arena.

        The point, it seems to me, is not whether the communists will or will not be allowed to unite, but whether the communist parties themselves are ready to unite into one single whole. There are too many contradictions within the communist movement. And without the unification of the communists and the refusal of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation to play in opposition, victory in the elections "will only dream of us" ... Somehow this is how things look to me ...
        1. +3
          12 January 2019 01: 47
          Not without it, but it is also the work of the oligarchs. The Trojan horse, the fifth column, the sleeping ... all these are technologies that use power.
    4. -3
      12 January 2019 00: 18
      You can come, of course. As soon as a coherent leader appears with a coherent and understandable program.
  11. +13
    11 January 2019 15: 43
    Further, the merits of the USSR, of which we are moaning, were supplemented by its shortcomings, one without the other is impossible: what to do with it?
    Do not lie, author, perhaps. It is not necessary only to revive, dragging into an alliance.
  12. +10
    11 January 2019 15: 43
    The party bureaucracy, the dictatorship of the first secretaries of the regional committees, headed by the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Secretary General, and from below the comradely courts, the administrative system, too, would have to be revived.
    Here I would like to ask the author (and others too) - why is the dictatorship of the current governors, heads of administrations better than the previous one? Or is Edrosov's bureaucracy different from that? And the law enforcement agencies, in particular the Ministry of Internal Affairs, how do they differ from those? Just a request to compare before 1985, i.e. before the arrival of the "marked" traitor, since the 50s - 70s .... sad We will hear the answer - then we will continue .... lol
    1. +2
      11 January 2019 22: 50
      To be fair, right after Gorbachev came to power, and before the "catastrophe" began, that is, somewhere in the period 1985-1988, the bureaucracy, the police, etc. began to treat the needs of people with great attention. Now this has been thoroughly forgotten, but in reality it was in 1985-1988, and it was started back in 1989. a spirit of optimism reigned in the society.
  13. +1
    11 January 2019 15: 46
    All revolutions led to ruin for at least a couple of decades. You can justify by saying that they were all funded from abroad. But we are not like that. The people who went to this revolution were not like that either. There is not a single country that would not have experienced deep shocks after this. And in general, sometimes it is not clear what the revolution wants to achieve. Power is bad, let's overthrow. For what purpose? Redistribute from one hand to another?
    There is a socialist system, there is a capitalist system.
    Now capitalism. Well, let's return socialism, if everyone wants it. Just let's not change the system every three decades, otherwise there will be no time to live. They didn’t break one of them; they started another, they didn’t like it.
    Can we return the monarchy and serfs? There, in riots, only rulers changed. The system did not break.
    Everyone is tired of it. Everyone wants the best. But maybe it's time to at least come to a common opinion. What do we need? Just do not like want to live better, a goldfish only in a fairy tale.
    More specifically. At least all the power of the people chtoli
    1. +7
      11 January 2019 17: 35
      That's just the point, there was no discussion. Putin confronted the fact, and now you see what he needs from us. They have everything in a bundle, so let them make jerks. And I’m not going to feed capitalism, it’s not mine.
      1. +6
        11 January 2019 17: 47
        Quote: Campanella
        That's just the point, there was no discussion. Putin confronted the fact, and now you see what he needs from us. They have everything in a bundle, so let them make jerks.

        All their jerks are gas pipelines over the hill at an accelerated pace and at any cost, I haven’t seen any jerks from them anymore and I won’t see them already!) Ah!))) And for the people Mandyul, Armata in 3 copies (though it turns out that we is no longer needed) and cartoons, horror stories))) And for the dessert, take pensions to death to be young))))
  14. +14
    11 January 2019 15: 47
    A very poor knowledge and understanding of the Marxist-Leninist theory of building a state gives rise to speculation in the darkness of ignorance. Plus, if you add to this a scanty knowledge of the history of the creation and formation of the state called the USSR, you can skillfully cook up an article urging you not to even try to build such a society. Well, at least here (the first one):

    In fact, a post-revolutionary society begins to be built “from scratch”, and it is precisely the revolution that casts it into this “zero”! Hence the inevitable companions of the revolution are civil war and devastation.


    Not a single "post-revolutionary society" was built from scratch ... not a single one! Or give an example. Perhaps the first communities of people can be attributed to the revolution "from scratch", and even then conditionally taking into account the speed of these metamorphoses. Moreover, this (post-revolutionary) society received a heap of problems and mistakes of the previous formation, and only a new construction of the principles of the life of society made it possible to solve the contradictions accumulated over the years, and sometimes centuries, which actually lead to the revolution. Further. A revolution without civil war is possible but unlikely, especially in large countries. Are there examples of revolutions without war? There is. The author's homework is to familiarize himself with the features of such revolutions and not publish this again. My regards.
  15. The comment was deleted.
    1. -4
      11 January 2019 18: 26
      It led to a civil war in which up to 13 million people died and the hell knows how much it suffered, beyond it the surplus appraisal - half of the country was starving, plundering state values ​​- dragged everything that could be dragged.
      1. +7
        12 January 2019 01: 53
        And social inequality, ruthless exploitation and humiliation of human dignity led to the revolution.
        1. WW2
          -6
          12 January 2019 10: 09
          Quote: Campanella
          And social inequality, ruthless exploitation and humiliation of human dignity led to the revolution.

          These factors never lead to revolutions. A revolution is the result of brain evolution.
          Or brain degradation, if we are talking about a reactionary coup (of the October type, and later, in the late 20s, of the "socialist" type).
          "Devastation, it is not in the closets, it is in the heads." This has been said long ago and not by me.
          1. +1
            12 January 2019 15: 23
            Brain evolution? Maybe you mean consciousness?)))
            1. WW2
              0
              12 January 2019 15: 28
              Quote: Campanella
              Brain evolution? Maybe you mean consciousness?)))

              Consciousness is also the result of brain evolution. Its development.
    2. -1
      11 January 2019 18: 29
      At first it led to devastation. Not at all. The author doubts whether they will give us time to survive our revolution this time, whether we can.
  16. +19
    11 January 2019 15: 53
    The question arises: if the power of the communists of the USSR was not able to build a state for a normal life of people, then why is the current power of Russia also not worth it?
    Hence the second question: the people did not protect the state in the 91st, so will the people protect today's state?
    1. -7
      11 January 2019 18: 27
      It lives well - the main thing is to get away with the head and everything will work out.
      1. +7
        11 January 2019 18: 49
        Quote: Vadim237
        Great life


        as seen by not everyone and not everywhere
        1. -7
          12 January 2019 00: 20
          So under socialism - not everyone and not everywhere.
      2. 0
        12 January 2019 15: 27
        It is possible, but not for everyone.
        Everyone can’t get into the business, it turns out those who do not shine for them hired workers?
    2. +2
      11 January 2019 18: 33
      In 1991, we used to think what is impossible in our society. After all, the doors did not lock. Now the situation is much more complicated. We are used to distrust and will be divided into two camps. If someone wants to change something, he will have to convince the other half that it is safe.
    3. 0
      12 January 2019 15: 24
      The difficult question is likely to be, not all and not everywhere.
  17. +11
    11 January 2019 15: 56
    Quote: GerKlim
    The general message of the article is to prevent people from thinking what could happen if ... the main thing is not to rock the boat. Enemies around us, we must unite.
    A bright future will certainly come, but we must tolerate.
    I understand that for such words I will be immediately assigned to the liberals. But it is impossible to scoff at the people as our government does. The power of the colonialists if only.


    Yes, everything with such articles is simple:
    1 Sacred cow private property in the main means of production Lze change ..
    2. There is no contradiction between the capitalist and the worker. Both patriots. despite the uneven distribution of benefits
    3 There are no classes and, consequently, class struggle - peace and quiet
    Galera floats on the waves further
    Does the appearance of several articles on this subject show the hand of a skilled conductor?
    http://www.e-news.su/mnenie-i-analitika/259587-andrey-shkolnikov-ocherk-o-strategii-rossii-sssr-2-ocherk-o-strategii-rossii-novyy-kovcheg-nasledniki-avraama.html
    (Andrey Shkolnikov: Essay on the strategy of Russia: USSR-2 | Essay on the strategy of Russia: “The New Ark” / “Heirs of Abraham”
    14:00 / 11.01.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX))
  18. BAI
    +2
    11 January 2019 15: 59
    Unless, of course, survives, which is not a fact.

    And what can eliminate Russia besides nuclear war? And after the war, thanks to resources and size, there will be something to revive.
    1. +7
      11 January 2019 16: 32
      Another Gorbachev can easily destroy us.
    2. 0
      11 January 2019 18: 32
      The fall of an asteroid or comet, with a diameter of 10 - 15 kilometers, weighing several trillion tons, at a speed of several tens of kilometers per second. The enemy is invisible and there is no protection from NGOs. Usually trouble comes from where you can’t expect it.
    3. +3
      11 January 2019 18: 36
      . what can eliminate Russia besides nuclear war

      And who will decide to start a nuclear war in the event of a revolution? Is that the "dead hand" wassat Which by the way is quite likely. My dream will come true: how we crave for America wassat
      Well, at least I will die happy. I will know that no one survived
  19. +14
    11 January 2019 16: 00
    The author of the article, being an adherent of the Guarantor, again engaged in pseudo-historical analysis, and the photo that he supplied with his writings should clearly symbolize the inferiority of the USSR. But for one reason, she doesn’t want to understand for some reason that this is not children - dear users, look at the photo what the children are wearing in the picture, and you will understand that the picture was not taken in the Soviet Union. Here is the same way the author juggles and manipulates the facts of history, and quite primitively! wassat lol
    1. -6
      12 January 2019 00: 24
      The author is a citizen of the country about which he writes, and with sufficient respect for her Guarantor of the Constitution.
      Not to show such respect as a citizen is like throwing cigarette butts on the floor.
      Do not like the country and the Guarantor? You are welcome to another, good one. There will remain millions of those who like, or at least have basic respect for a decent, educated person.
      Do you think you are so many dissatisfied? You are mistaken.
      We won’t die here without you.

      And the photo on the network, by the way, is more than enough to illustrate the inferiority of the USSR. It’s not worth it to ineptly refine yourself in wit.
    2. -5
      12 January 2019 01: 29
      The author is just an author. He is not an adherent of the Guarantor. There is no information that he receives a reward for this. At least I did not find
  20. +7
    11 January 2019 16: 03
    [quote = TAMBU] Very poor knowledge and understanding of the Marxist-Leninist theory of state building gives rise to speculation in the darkness of ignorance. Plus, if you add to this a scanty knowledge of the history of the creation and formation of the state called the USSR, you can skillfully cook up an article urging you not to even try to build such a society. Well, at least here (the first one that comes across) [quote = NasRat] [quote = Altona]
    PS Lenin built the state. [/ quote]
    Wow ... And the Russian Empire did not seem to know statehood ... wassat
    True, Lenin reduced the empire a little territorially ... maybe this is his construction ... [/ quote]
    And what has "disappeared" from the territory? winked
    1. +1
      11 January 2019 17: 20
      [quote = Radikal] True, Lenin reduced this empire a little territorially ... maybe this is his construction ... [/ quote]
      And what has "disappeared" from the territory? [/ quote]
      For example, the Baltic states and Finland.
    2. -6
      12 January 2019 00: 28
      Yes you already built once.
      Enough, give it to others.
  21. +9
    11 January 2019 16: 09
    Quote: Nasr
    So what did Lenin build?

    They answered the same question - why bother with little hands and jump legs with impatience? wassat lol tongue
  22. +7
    11 January 2019 16: 14
    Quote: Meshcheryak
    Quote: Altona
    That's right, it’s impossible to restore the USSR, therefore it is necessary to steal further, consider people to be cattle, and so that no one thinks of writing such guard articles, calming themselves and society.

    And who said that socialism cannot be built in our country? The representative of the aligarhat, his employers, will not allow him to do this with all his will. Who voluntarily parted with the loot?))))

    Никто. sad
  23. +6
    11 January 2019 16: 16
    Quote: Cheslav Tsursky
    Quote: izya top
    I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?

    Yes, what are you saying? Did you count the party nomenclature including all paid Komsomol functionaries with service staff? smile
    I liked the article. I think this is a completely truthful view of the revolution in general. If we consider them separately, then of course we can’t do without small-town specifics ... The only thing I want to add to the author is that all revolutions necessarily end with the division of property, theft, theft and the sale quickly and cheaply! And all utopias i.e. the revolutionary struggle for the benefit of people is necessarily accompanied by the death of a significant part of these people, but the author said this.

    Are you talking about what happened after August 1991 ...? About secured auctions and more ...? winked lol
  24. -1
    11 January 2019 16: 30
    Quote: Ishchenko Gennady Vladimirovich
    Nonsense! What devastation did the Great October Revolution lead to? Yes, she brought the illiterate, industrially backward and ruined by world and civil wars (and intervention) Russian Empire into the second most powerful state on the planet! And if you take into account that the first USA did not fight on its territory for 200 years and sold dollars to the whole world, and we suffered monstrous material and human losses and were able to create a nuclear missile shield in such conditions, then the created system has definitely proved its effectiveness. Capitalism is also full of shortcomings, and it developed for 400 years (socialism was given only 70). And about the repression and Stalin, not everything is so simple. I can't give arguments here, it's too long. Those interested can read the novel "Correction", in which it is described in detail on the basis of archival materials. Type two words in Yandex or Google: PROSE CORRECTION and read the first prompt.

    According to the theory of Marx, socialism could not appear in Russia as an underdeveloped country of imperialism / capitalism, since public relations were not ready due to its agrarian nature. And only a revolution inspired from outside stopped the beginning of the industrial reorganization of Russia and its entry into the stage of developed capitalism. The Bolsheviks only took advantage of the situation due to weak power. And if in the RSDLP (b) an agrarian group or Trotsky’s permanents would have won, then Russia would have been in a deep ass either immediately or after 2-MV. hi
    1. WW2
      -4
      12 January 2019 01: 20
      Quote: Vlad5307
      According to the theory of Marx, socialism could not appear in Russia.

      Marx did not know any "socialism". He (and Engels) wrote about communism as a kind of social state.
      And Ulyanov did not know anything like "socialism". And he also had in mind communism as a welfare state.
      "Socialism" is an invention of Dzhugashvili. Moreover, "socialism" has nothing in common with the social state.
      Quote: Vlad5307
      And only an externally inspired revolution

      Who is inspired? The revolution in Russia (February-March 1917) occurred due to internal reasons and contradictions.
      Quote: Vlad5307
      stopped the industrial reorganization of Russia that had begun and its entry into the stage of developed capitalism.

      Respected. The February-March 1917 revolution in Russia was bourgeois. Until March 1917, Russia was a feudal state. Where could it have come from not only "developed capitalism", but simply capitalism? Even in the early stages?
      Quote: Vlad5307
      And if in the RSDLP (b) an agrarian group or Trotsky’s permanents would have won, then Russia would have been in a deep ass either immediately or after 2-MV.

      You need to guess on the street. With such a degree of certainty, they will beat you there a couple of times, and you won’t do this anymore.
      The history of Russia after the bourgeois revolution of February-March 1917 could enter a positive channel at many forks. And, of course, the most favorable option is the success of the "Kornilov mutiny." The establishment of a tough Bonapartist (the Bolsheviks called such regimes fascist, although the established international term for the first phase of bourgeois society "Bonapartism") military dictatorship under the leadership of General Kornilov.
      Next were also generally acceptable, although not so successful, options.
      But the story went according to the most probably unsuccessful option. And in December 1991, Russia again appeared to be in 1861.
      If in 1917 Kornilov won, no 2MB would most likely not have happened. Because in this case, Russia would start (in capitalism) in 1918. And Germany, this is in the most unsuccessful situation for Russia, in 1933. In this case, Hitler simply would not dare to attack Russia. And he himself would still tremble at the mere mention of this word.
      And with that level of degradation of everything and everything in the USSR, which actually was in the USSR by 1941, Hitler was not at all afraid of the USSR. And he considered it easy prey.
  25. +2
    11 January 2019 16: 30
    Excuse me, as I understand the author - we now have some NEP?
    1. -4
      11 January 2019 18: 33
      We now have a complete NEP - earn and enrich yourself as you want, but within the framework of the law.
    2. WW2
      -4
      12 January 2019 00: 53
      Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
      Excuse me, as I understand the author - we now have some NEP?

      Yeah. Only "Lenin is alive". And it is still unknown what will happen after his death. Oh, as if not a new mustachioed mug. Once again, Russia will not stand this.
  26. +4
    11 January 2019 16: 43
    The historical circumstances of the emergence of the USSR are unique and inimitable, therefore it is impossible to reproduce the USSR with any index: life itself has changed a lot since then.

    That's just the same - you can build.
    It may not be in that way and not in this form, but it is more than real! and maybe even much easier than it sounds.
    For one should not confuse "building a bright future of communism" with the USSR, even if these are seemingly inseparable concepts. The first is just a utopia that was used to promote the communist government, and the second is a completely already built structure that took place in real history, quite tangible, not abstract and which the people already fell in love with, which does not need to be promoted and promoted.
    So the people themselves do not really need communism itself, it is practically not needed for most of those who miss the USSR today, and for the majority of the inhabitants of the USSR it was not really needed (remember all these collective farms, party meetings, party cards, lessons political information or lectures on the history of communism).
    The technocratic basis in itself is important, which the Russian people loved so much and a strong social system.
    Therefore, it is not at all necessary to look for a new "Lenin", to revive Bolshevism and stir up the revolution.
    USSR-1 has already gone through quite a lot and coped with most of its early and even a number of later "sores".
    Now we have a solid experience of what to do for sure, but what to do is not worth it at all.
    And there is a model of what should be (i.e., there is a clear idea of ​​how it should look in the end, many have already seen it and lived inside it). Therefore, a number of basic problems of the USSR-1 (both early and late) can be avoided even at the start of construction.
    1. -1
      11 January 2019 20: 16
      Quote: Kawado
      Therefore, it is not at all necessary to look for a new "Lenin", to revive Bolshevism and stir up the revolution.
      USSR-1 has already gone through quite a lot and coped with most of its early and even a number of later "sores".

      Only now he did not manage to create a "real Soviet man". The person has not yet disaccustomed to want to eat, sleep and have fun. Instead, he had to build a bright future under the wise leadership of the Party by unanimous efforts.
      Instead, it turned out some kind of social homunculi, like the hero of the film "Ivan Vasilyevich Changes His Profession" - I.V. Bunsha.
      Well, or an intellectual version - Lukashin from The Irony of Fate.
      Oh yes, there were also Soviet people from the people - see the film "Big Change", in the scenes of which adults demonstrate the level of relations between 12-year-olds, or patients on the road. How could people with this behavior model be able to solve real problems in real life?
      After all, you don't even need to look for anything - in Soviet cinema everything is perfectly shown how a "real Soviet man" should look and say.

      This, by the way, is precisely the person who definitely remembered one thing - the state should give him - work, housing. education, medicine. But it turned out that the state could not give everyone. Well, or maybe, but of different quality. What naturally caused a feeling of deep injustice in Soviet people.
      Indeed, in American cinema they showed him that they all had 2 cars and big houses, which means America gives them everything. Why can the USSR not?
      Nobody explained to them that no one gives anything to anyone just like that.
      1. 0
        14 January 2019 12: 23
        You see, most of the problems are known. And they are solvable, if resolved.
        In addition, now many already know that in America, not everyone has 2 cars and large houses. A lot of those who live in a trailer or even a box from under the TV ...
  27. +6
    11 January 2019 16: 55
    Of course it won't. they could not attract half-Russian Ukraine with pro-Russian Yanuk, the Old Man is rebelling, and Kazakhstan has already banned the Russian language in general. The current social model of Russia with its oligarchs, corruption and other bonds is simply not interesting to anyone. In contrast, the USSR even had clear slogans - “land to the peasants” and other friendships and arods. What is there to offer other countries today - to give everything to the Russian oligarchs and collect dead wood? There are no fools, these guys in reality live, and not under the Russian zomboyaschik.
  28. +9
    11 January 2019 17: 03
    The article is interesting if you think "philosophically".
    And I would like to draw a parallel between after the war, when the country was raised in 16 years and Gagarin said “Let's go!” And the current one, when, according to the president, the issue of survival for Russia is in the need for a sharp breakthrough, otherwise “why do we need this world if there will be no Russia in it? "(quote). Then, in the sixties, the communists managed to do it. It was only later that discord and vacillation began.
    And what methods to repeat the much-needed breakthrough today?
    1. +7
      11 January 2019 17: 29
      Like everything that is done verbally by the Russian authorities! And when they really need something, they run to buy abroad. Worthless people they are in creation.
      1. -1
        14 January 2019 12: 27
        Just like you, you can paste the wallpaper yourself, and run to the store behind the outlet.
        It’s the same as presenting to the dentist that he does not know how to work behind a lathe.
        To each his own.
    2. +2
      11 January 2019 18: 48
      Then the device was intact. All resources, capacities and ideology. Now either evolution, or a revolution with a rebound, if we survive
  29. +6
    11 January 2019 17: 03
    it is strange that all the shortcomings of the USSR you listed are in the capitalist model, but there aren’t just one dignity of the USSR!
    1. WW2
      -2
      12 January 2019 00: 42
      Quote: Alex Smith_5
      that's just not one advantage of the USSR is not present!

      And in the USSR there were advantages? What if not a secret?
      1. -2
        13 January 2019 12: 48
        Of course, all internal problems deliberately hid everything in the USSR perfectly.
        1. +2
          13 January 2019 15: 34
          Quote: Vadim237
          Of course, all internal problems deliberately hid everything in the USSR perfectly.

          you did not live at that time, sorry. The fact is that if you would go to the local committee of the Party with any of these problems and write a paper, then it would be solved with two fingers on the asphalt. It is about the period until 1978.
          1. WW2
            -2
            13 January 2019 16: 02
            Quote: aybolyt678
            if you went to the local committee of the Party with any of these problems and wrote a paper, then it would have been solved with two fingers on the asphalt. It is about the period until 1978.

            You just do not laugh deTski.
          2. -2
            13 January 2019 17: 19
            They decided well to see that so far, people live without gas, water supply - in barracks and wagons of 34 years and beyond - which they promised to resettle in the 60s, but probably something prevented them - they worked. And just now they began to solve these problems - but it is now expensive.
  30. +3
    11 January 2019 17: 10
    "horses mixed in a bunch, people" is about the article
    What does the author mean by USSR 2.0 ?!
    territory social relationships?
    What tasks did the organizers of the October Revolution set and what was not achieved?
    a lot of bukff and almost everything about nothing
  31. +4
    11 January 2019 17: 11
    Well this is how much in an article of opium for the people ... laughing
  32. +3
    11 January 2019 17: 26
    It cannot be, because it can never be! The author’s logic is simple, mix not miscible, add references to authoritative personalities and thus justify the impossibility of the USSR-2. I explain to the author of a large article that what has been done once can be repeated a second time and a third. And no arguments of philosophers, historians and other greats can prevent this.
    1. -1
      11 January 2019 17: 48
      The old past cannot be returned, just as the flow of rivers cannot be returned. The created and long-term existence of the USSR gave lessons and disappeared into oblivion. These conclusions for the future can be applied in the future. The main disadvantage was gigantomania and the all-encompassing compulsion of everyone to this idea and image. After all, this should be implemented voluntarily. But you will not be cute forcibly .... Today, building the society of the future is possible from small to more expanding and only at the end, and then ideally. you can embrace the whole state ... So build socialist relationships in small groups. In yards, businesses, communities, districts, even in cities. Further life will show where it is much more correct .. After all, there was an anecdote under the USSR: "There is more socialism in capitalist Sweden than in the socialist USSR" ...
      1. +3
        11 January 2019 19: 51
        Quote: Vladimir 5
        The main disadvantage was gigantomania

        what do you mean by that?
        1. -7
          11 January 2019 20: 31
          He means this gigantomania in the literal sense - if the plane is the largest in the world, if the tower is the highest. Foreigners periodically laughed at it, as at savages, capable of seeing only one in civilization. they understand the side. and thinking that this is it, civilization is.

          Like a jacket in Papuan. The Europeans presented the jacket, and said that all civilized people wear it. Here are the Papuans and they wear it - it’s hot, uncomfortable, it is all frayed by thorns, it burned out from the fire. But you can’t shoot - civilization.
          And if you already made your own, then durable, from the skin of a buffalo - it will not break, it will not burn out. Civilization!
          1. +6
            11 January 2019 20: 55
            Quote: Mestny
            if the tower, then the highest.

            Are you talking about amers?
            Quote: Mestny
            if the plane is the largest in the world

            but they did, and not very bad
            Quote: Mestny
            And if you already made your own, then durable, from the skin of a buffalo - it will not break, it will not burn out.

            Quote: Mestny
            And if you already made your own, then durable, from the skin of a buffalo - it will not break, it will not burn out.

            what’s the funniest thing is the truth, well, things didn’t creep out before
            1. -2
              11 January 2019 22: 02
              I am in an allegorical sense. Conditional "jacket" - as a symbol of civilization.
              The main thing. that without understanding the meaning of the object - why and how it was made - its use will turn into an incomprehensible and unnecessary ritual, and if you make it, you will only get its funny "copy".
              Western rock music for example is a good example. Anything. Post office. The British postman walks like a clock, no matter what the circumstances. We do not have. And all because there such mail has been improved for centuries. and we immediately took, and "dressed". Does not work.
              Well, or the Soviet public catering. Comrade Khrushchev flew to America, looked at how the cafes work there - it is necessary for us as well.
              And we got raw tables, dried mustard and salt on a plate with traces of wet fingers.
              well does not work.
              1. +4
                11 January 2019 23: 05
                mail comparison is not very appropriate
                Quote: Mestny
                And we got raw tables, dried mustard and salt on a plate with traces of wet fingers

                forgive me, of course, but if we had a public catering, the Soviet one was better than today's fast food, and sorry my fingers weren’t wet, if only they were completely sick in slums, and in their ghettos it’s almost no better
                By the way, this is not at all the notion of a maize after his trips
                Quote: Mestny
                Yes, anything.

                you simply compare green with round
                1. -4
                  12 January 2019 00: 41
                  Whether in the ghetto or not, I don't know. At one time, I was greatly impressed by the book "One-Story America" ​​by Ilf and Petrov.
                  For those who may not have read. In my year in 1936, two writers traveled around the United States with their American friends, a married couple. We drove by car from ocean to ocean. Well, since we're talking about public catering, let's remember what they wrote about him there.
                  And they wrote that wherever they went, whether it was a desert, or another abandoned corner, there must have been this same public catering, which served exactly the same dishes, exactly the same quality as for example in New York.
                  Well, since Ilf and Petrov are Soviet writers, they certainly condemned such a heartless attitude towards a person in the United States - everywhere the same "breakfasts No. 1 and No. 2", everywhere the same white bread and steaks of the same size.
                  Whether it is a matter with us, in the USSR, they write, an individual approach to each, because we are the fairest country in the world.
                  I remind you the case. takes place in 1936.
                  ... It is interesting to send them at least by train to Vladivostok, and wherever closer to the Ural Mountains at the station near the village, ask for a meal. How is it - the same size as the Moscow steak would outrage progressive writers?
                  1. +4
                    12 January 2019 08: 18
                    Quote: Mestny
                    I remind you the case. takes place in 1936.

                    that is, the maize has nothing to do with it, you somehow get confused, or rather, you drive the "solution" under the "answer"
      2. +5
        11 January 2019 21: 01
        The Jinners invented a joke.
        As for the gradual ... most likely it will not work. The oligarchs will not give.
  33. +8
    11 January 2019 17: 42
    Mr. Kamenev is a good copywriter, but as he begins to try to reason - well, at least bear the saints! Or is it just an article of anonymous copywriting of ten rubles a thousand, which are published on his behalf? What, forgive me for the expression, Chukhna!
    Yes, Mr. Kamenev, another revolution would be a terrible disaster for Russia. But to justify its destructiveness, in a panic twisting one on another, and the other on the tenth, is simply to convince those who wish that the defenders of the "old world" are extremely stupid inadequate. And that means - the revolution is necessary! With such "defenders" no enemies are needed ...
    For a revolution to take place, a revolutionary situation must mature. And if it has matured, then the revolution will still turn loose, whether we wish it or not. How did this happen in Russia? Unfortunately, from the fact that the country exploded in a revolution, it does not at all follow that at least something will be built at the site of the explosion, the USSR, China, or the Liberal Democratic Party. It is very likely that everything will fall apart. In order to keep the country, it is not necessary to take care of the USSR 2.0, but that the factors of the revolutionary situation do not ripen with such frightening clarity! Those who advocate for the USSR 2.0 want to build something. And those who are unbearably sickened up want to destroy everything nafig, because they do not see a way out in the existing situation!
    As for the theory of systems ... Damn, there are no words. It’s bad, since the pie starts to stitch the boots, and the cobbler bakes pies. If you demolish the existing system, then it is impossible to build what you conceived, AT ONCE. First you need to establish the existence of your own version in emergency mode, and then deal with the systematic restructuring of the system. Which was done in the USSR, and everyone who has even a little more intelligence than some, sees this absolutely clearly. Unfortunately, the author of the article does not see this.
    Pancakes are burned, shut up - you’ll be a smart guy! The author of the article did not convince anyone of what he was trying to convince; instead, he once again sowed doubts about his adequacy and greatly discredited the idea he was trying to defend. Or is he just paying for it?
    1. +7
      11 January 2019 18: 16
      Quote: Mikhail3
      Pancakes are burned, shut up - you’ll be a smart guy! The author of the article did not convince anyone of what he was trying to convince; instead, he once again sowed doubts about his adequacy and greatly discredited the idea he was trying to defend. Or is he just paying for it?

      According to the comments available at this hour, both from the Author and from his opponents, there is a strong impression that the purpose of the article was not a serious discussion of the topic, but simply filling the "air" time. And the Author successfully coped with this task, pushing serious argumentation of his position deep under the table, since a balanced and well-grounded answer has not yet been given to a single comment of his opponents.
    2. +5
      11 January 2019 18: 16
      Quote: Mikhail3
      Pancakes are burned, shut up - you’ll be a smart guy! The author of the article did not convince anyone of what he was trying to convince; instead, he once again sowed doubts about his adequacy and greatly discredited the idea he was trying to defend. Or is he just paying for it?

      According to the comments available at this hour, both from the Author and from his opponents, there is a strong impression that the purpose of the article was not a serious discussion of the topic, but simply filling the "air" time. And the Author successfully coped with this task, pushing serious argumentation of his position deep under the table, since a balanced and well-grounded answer has not yet been given to a single comment of his opponents.
      1. -5
        11 January 2019 19: 54
        What kind of comments are these? About the fact that Gumilyov is not a scientist?
        So the author did not write about this, and the question is controversial.
        Basically, the so-called "opponents" demonstrated to varying degrees the effects of "pucano bombarda" by categorical statements about the author's mental development, and the like.
        Or at best, attempts to compare the USSR and present-day Russia on the basis of well-known cliches.
    3. -3
      11 January 2019 20: 05
      Quote: Mikhail3
      In order to keep the country, it is not necessary to take care of the USSR 2.0, but that the factors of the revolutionary situation do not ripen with such frightening clarity! Those who advocate for USSR 2.0 want to build something. And those who are unbearably sickened up want to destroy everything nafig, because they do not see a way out in the existing situation!

      Well, and how should an ordinary citizen take care of this? Go out to the square? In no case do not work, especially not work well?
      Or on the Internet round dances to drive about unjust power?
      Auto is undoubtedly right in one thing - both those builders of the USSR and Western liberals want exactly one thing - to destroy what is.
      Destroy, key. This alone should at least force one to carefully distance oneself from such a united desire for destruction.
      So this is not enough - as luck would have it, our Western "partners" are giving them a standing ovation.
      And that’s all.
      Have come up with a word - "guardians". and now they scornfully throw the slightest voice in defense through the lip.
  34. +7
    11 January 2019 18: 10
    Another scientifically nonsense ..., the author wrote how he crouched .... USSR-2 is quite possible and there are ALMOST all conditions for its creation. This is almost --- a people, but not the people who milk, deceive, tax and pay, but the people who have their share of these exactions, a conflict of interest-- However .... From the point of view of ethnogenesis (the economy can be not affect), perestroika and a return to capitalism stopped the formation of the Russian nation, the country is ethnically already in the state of Russia ...., and not even the Russian Empire, another 10-15 years and the Russian-speaking population on the lands of different Russia will be a reality, the process is already underway . Kurginyan hints that it is necessary to restore the USSR, but the forms may be different. The question is that the People of Power will fight for Power until the People of the Subject is completely destroyed and neither the commonality of the language, nor the commonality of history and territory matter, 2/3 of the exports of Russia were SLAVES ...., the Russians sold the Russians, we will repeat ... ?
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. +6
    11 January 2019 18: 25
    Mr. Kamenev!
    Speaking about the Bertalanfi-Prigozhin law, you slyly ignored the final conclusion made by Gumilyov from this law: the life time of each nation or civilization is 1200 years. The maximum is 1500. At the end of the term passionaries actively pour out of it, being absorbed by the younger civilization formation - territorially different and foreign. As we observe in relation to Russia. I always knew that our people were tired — the losses of the Russian population in the past, and even this centuries, the USSR-2 are too great — it would be impossible to save ourselves as a moral nation! And I would like - the territory.
    1. -6
      11 January 2019 23: 54
      I will not be disclosed, the article is not about this, and your remark is fair, if we do not go crazy, then another 300 years, approximately, "golden autumn", we are even shining. Is that enough for you?
  37. 0
    11 January 2019 18: 40
    It is impossible to build a USSR2, and it is not necessary, moreover, it is stupid to “step on the rake” several times, that’s what you need to learn from your “partners” and get rid of this stupid habit. But what is necessary, and urgently necessary for survival and at least for the sake of some prospects for further existence, is a return to the common borders of truly Russian lands and peoples that our ancestors left us, collecting them for centuries and abundantly pouring blood on them with the blood of Russian soldiers while protecting and defending the state and the Fatherland. Which 3 corrupt bastards who imagined themselves to be the masters of the Russian lands and peoples decided, sitting behind a bubble in the forest, to tear them apart, for the sake of their masters and a laughing stock to the whole world, bringing sorrow and death to millions of people, destroying their country and peoples. There is no need to invent a bicycle, everything has long been invented by our wise ancestors, there has never been a territorial division in the Russian state on a national basis, there were provinces and counties and everyone was happy.
  38. +5
    11 January 2019 18: 43
    [quote = credo] [quote = Radikal] True, Lenin reduced this empire a little territorially ... maybe this is his construction ... [/ quote]
    And what has "disappeared" from the territory? [/ quote]
    For example, the Baltic States and Finland. [/ Quote]
    Well, the Baltic states were then "returned", and then for geopolitical reasons, and so they, and Finland for Russia, in principle, were mentally "alien" so to speak territories .... sad
  39. +7
    11 January 2019 18: 47
    Yes, I wonder, but what about the criminal revolution of 1991, that the author "forgot" about this, washing the bones of everyone else, starting with the Jacobins. The Bolsheviks accepted Russia with a plow and left it with space and the second economy of the world, but the completely rotten party elite wanted both power and wealth. The people were finally pushed aside and now they are openly spitting in their direction.
    1. -3
      12 January 2019 00: 46
      It is interesting to know how many people died as a result of this 1991 revolution?
      Enough to tell these stories about the innocent "people" who were deceived.
      The people also tried their best.
      "take each nail from the factory
      you are the master here. not a guest "
      It is an innocent people with a joyful neighing that it was important to repeat on occasion.
  40. +4
    11 January 2019 18: 52
    Quote: Aerodrome
    Quote: Trouble
    In the USSR, the party nomenclature was unmeasured.

    less than now at times.

    Right!
    Especially if you count all the acting parties, including the "quasi opposition", but in fact, the same, pro-government. (LDPR, KPRF, SR, etc.)
  41. +5
    11 January 2019 18: 58
    "USSR-2 Kurginyan and the main issue of the revolution." Experts do not consider it for the same reason that projects of “perpetual motion machines” are not considered: these are questions of the same order.
    Strange approach.
    Comparing things of different nature and at the same time claiming that these are "questions of the same order."
    One thing, a perpetual motion machine that contradicts the laws of physics, the latter are not human product.
    Public relations (the essence of the USSR) are quite another thing, the latter being quite are human product, which means they can be created, brought up by man himself.
    hi
  42. +3
    11 January 2019 18: 59
    Still, I wonder why so many decent citizens, including those in the military, advocate for the restoration of the USSR. Let’s try to reason logically. Obviously, decent citizens see some kind of benefit for themselves in the supposed future of USSR-2. What kind of benefit is this? Do they want to get rid of something unpleasant? Yes, that is right. First things first, you should get rid of the current government, which is to blame for all the troubles that occur. And, of course, to be away from any problems (be it problems with inflation, education, jobs or something else). Do not criticize the current government. Work as required of you. Raise children in the appropriate spirit. Do not break the Criminal Code. All. Simple and ingenious. Yes, this is the new Eden! So, in the bright future, instead of a decent citizen, the state power will be responsible for the situation in the country (that is, to solve problems and punish local performers for the appearance of such). The most humane and fair. That is ... the rest of society (since decent citizens are building communism / socialism)! That is, in any case, anyone, but not a decent citizen, will be to blame for possible troubles. "... The country is falling apart? Is it a mess (stagnation)? It's not our fault. What was required of us, we did ... The party betrayed the interests of the proletariat and the revolution. It is her fault. It is Gorbachev-Khrushchev-Brezhnev who are to blame for that the USSR collapsed. And its citizens have absolutely nothing to do with it! They are innocent victims of betrayal. Betrayal of the top, the ruling elite. Didn't you know? And what is it, to be responsible? .. The devastation in the country, a mess in almost all areas of society, the lack of prospects ... And who is to blame? Anyone, just not me, argues a decent citizen. However, he feels that ... is ... is responsible, if it is amiss. It carries on its own hump, staggering on its flimsy legs. Of course, this alignment does not suit him. Responsibility is, unfortunately, a heavy burden for any decent citizen. No one wants to be held accountable. Therefore, it is better to blame it on another. Ingenious. Well, if everything is as I described, then is it not all of you, decent citizens, equal to what kind of state system we live in? Justify your answer if you can. Although I doubt you can.
    1. +1
      12 January 2019 11: 58
      Quote: Ginger
      Obviously, decent citizens see some kind of benefit for themselves in the supposed future of the USSR-2.

      As for the "benefits" - try reading Wasserman's interview for example. But by themselves - when were you realties connected by a common goal with millions of people? Yes, such a connection is unresolved, with many failures and even betrayals. But is it given to you to understand how DIFFERENT it was? How much this world was not for everyone and everyone similar to the current one?
      Do you know what is the saddest thing? This is to observe the "redevelopment architects" and their beneficiaries available for observation. Chubais falls into hysterics, demanding gratitude from people for what he did. But even this hysteria is transparent ... And most of these people sit in their luxurious real estate and poke around with their little eyes. Not if you ask them ... You just look at them if you personally know someone.
      Almost all of them realized what they had done. They already clearly understand what they’ve done, and what they really think and feel about this (most of them struggle to think nothing about it ... only this is impossible) is easy to read. What scum? Are you satisfied ?! Well, this and that ...
  43. +2
    11 January 2019 18: 59
    But is it necessary, for example, Russia, to restore the USSR? Indeed, in this case, they will try to milk Russia to the fullest.
  44. +5
    11 January 2019 19: 03
    = Further, the merits of the USSR, of which we are moaning, were supplemented by its shortcomings, one without the other is impossible: what to do with it? =
    But in today's society there are no flaws?
    = The party bureaucracy, the dictatorship of the first secretaries of the regional committees, headed by the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Secretary General, and from below the comradely courts, the administrative system, too, would have to be revived. =
    Why revive? Everything is already only under a different sign. Except friendly courts.
    = Here begins the construction of the “perpetual motion machine”, which should provide us with advantages and remove Soviet shortcomings, but at the same time new unforeseen undesirable consequences associated with new forms of life, for example, with the Internet, will appear. Which, it is fundamentally impossible to predict. =
    Well...?
    I did not read further. An empty chatter in the name of a bright capitalistic future.
    Old men told me that by 1938 life in the country had been improved. And if not for the war ...
    1917 years passed from 1938 to 21. For 21 years, the lives of ordinary people have changed beyond recognition. I emphasize - has changed for the better.
    1993 years passed from 2018 to 25. How has the life of ordinary people changed during this time?
    1. -3
      11 January 2019 20: 42
      Changed beyond recognition - in cities.
    2. -6
      11 January 2019 21: 02
      "From 1917 to 1938 passed 21 years. For 21 years the life of ordinary people has changed beyond recognition."

      Yeah, and "people" (and in fact - slaves) began to receive passports only from the 60s, I wonder why :)
      And they worked for thanks (workdays, small salaries) in these wonderful 30s. This is not even remembering about such wonderful things as the hunger of the 33rd (I managed to communicate with living witnesses yet), the total executions of the 36-37th, Gulagi and other "joys"

      "From 1993 to 2018, 25 years have passed, how has the life of ordinary people changed during this time?"
      Dramatically for the better. They began to live better throughout the CIS, even if we look at the consumption of meat per capita per year. And so now you can come to the store and buy any necessary goods, you can travel the world, you can choose a job, you can even sue the authorities and win these courts.
      1. +6
        12 January 2019 00: 21
        Quote: Commihunter

        Yeah, and "people" (and in fact - slaves) began to receive passports only from the 60s, I wonder why :)

        You are moaning about passports. Have you ever asked yourself the question - why do you need passports? I will not teach you, learn for yourself. But I will give a hint. First, answer the question - why do residents of cities need passports, and then try on these answers with rural residents. And one more clue - you do not need a passport personally. This state needs you to have it. Well, strain your brains.
        Quote: Commihunter

        And they worked for thanks (workdays, small salaries) in these wonderful 30s.

        About workdays. Where were the workdays? - On the collective farms. The collective farmer did not work in the state, - on the collective farm. What I earned, I got it. Labor productivity was very low. And only when equipment came to the collective farm, labor productivity increased, did the workday become significant.
        You need to think a little logically. And preferably with your head. Moreover, an open mind.
        About the famine of 32-33 and the Gulag, I will not even talk to you. This is a conversation for middle and higher minds.
        Quote: Commihunter

        "From 1993 to 2018, 25 years have passed, how has the life of ordinary people changed during this time?"
        Dramatically for the better. They began to live better throughout the CIS, even if we look at the consumption of meat per capita per year. And so now you can come to the store and buy any necessary goods, you can travel the world, you can choose a job, you can even sue the authorities and win these courts.

        You know, there is such a joke in which everything - true - can be given to an elephant 200 kg. bananas.
        Maybe it’s possible, but who will give them to him?
        1. -5
          12 January 2019 00: 33
          "Labor productivity was very low. And only when machinery came to the collective farm, labor productivity increased, and the workday became significant."

          You can rub this propaganda to your children, I talked a lot with those who plowed for these workdays, and what I got. By the way, my grandfather did not go as the chairman of the colpos, because I would have to catch those who dragged them from the colpos, since workdays paid a penny. And here, as if his conscience would not allow him :)

          "I won't even talk to you about the famine of 32-33 and the Gulag. This is a conversation for average and higher minds."
          That's right, you are not suitable for such conversations :) Honestly, but :)

          "You can do it, but who will give them to him?"
          If you are not able to buy what you want, or ride around the world, then the problem is only in you. Do not blame external forces for your own failures.
          1. +2
            12 January 2019 11: 25
            Quote: Commihunter

            You can rub this propaganda to your children, I talked a lot with those who plowed for these workdays, and what I got. By the way, my grandfather did not go as the chairman of the colpos, because I would have to catch those who dragged them from the colpos, since workdays paid a penny. And here, as if conscience would not allow him

            But how could it be possible to pay not a penny if, like you or your grandfather, they said that everything was "dragged from the colgospa"? Well, finally turn on your brains.
            People did not understand that they were stealing from themselves, but, of course, the authorities were to blame - they paid little. I would like to look at the farmer from whom his workers would drag because he, they say, pays little. People were not accustomed to collective work, so they did not really bother with work. In any case, they did not resist as much as in their courtyard. And nada was "to resist" as at home.
            Quote: Commihunter

            "I won't even talk to you about the famine of 32-33 and the Gulag. This is a conversation for average and higher minds."
            That's right, you are not suitable for such conversations :) Honestly, but :)

            Not because I don't fit. I just don't want to waste time on your education. If you have studied the history of the Gulag and "repression" according to Solzhenitsyn, then what can I do? - Clinic.
            Quote: Commihunter

            If you are not able to buy what you want, or ride around the world, then the problem is only in you. Do not blame external forces for your own failures.

            That's right. If the collective farmer didn’t receive much on workdays, then these are problems of the state. But if I have enough of my pension for one thing - to buy a gobble or pay utilities, then this, of course, is my problem.
            You didn’t have an internship at the State Department?
            1. -4
              12 January 2019 12: 25
              "People did not understand that they were stealing from themselves, but, of course, the authorities were to blame - they paid little."

              Theft was a consequence. For example, with a friend, the family lived poorly in Sovka until his father began to wear all kinds of little things from the factory. Then other things appeared on the table :) You can’t live normally with a salary of 120 rubles, when a TV costs 400-500 rubles, a washing machine is about 600 tons and a vacuum cleaner is 40-50. Don't you really understand this?

              I just don't want to waste time on your education. If you have studied the history of the Gulag and "repression" according to Solzhenitsyn
              I studied the history of the Holodomor from the stories of people who lived at that time, the history of the Gulag from a couple of relatives who managed to visit them during Stalin's time. One by the way from ours was never found :) apparently it was so good in Vorkuta that he stayed there :)
              My samples are probably not the most representative, but I trust them more than the Pravda newspaper and all the Soviet-era historians born in 80-85 :) I don't think it's worth explaining why :)

              If the collective farmer didn’t receive much on workdays, then these are problems of the state. But if I have enough of my pension for one thing
              Because the collective farmer was forcibly pulled into the collective farm, and he really had no choice. You can’t leave without a passport.
              And you are free now. You can earn extra money somewhere, for example. Moreover, my words were more likely about working people who, applying work and knowledge, could well live well and enjoy the benefits of civilization that Soviet people did not even dream of.
              Oh yes, and pensions of 18-40 rubles in the villages was this normal? Not retirement genocide at all, right?
              1. +2
                13 January 2019 19: 05
                Quote: Commihunter
                Theft was a consequence.

                Unseemly acts can always, with a certain desire, be justified.
                Quote: Commihunter
                things :) You can’t live normally with a salary of 120 rubles, when a TV costs 400-500 rubles, a washing machine about 600 tons and a vacuum cleaner - 40-50. Don't you really understand this?

                Well, why don't I understand? I see. My parents received a total of 200 rubles. And I remember the first washing machine - "Ural" bought in 63. I don't know how much it cost. But, in any case, not 600 rubles. Here you bent. He still works in the country. And TV - "Aurora" and cold. "Crystal". It's just that the parents weren't lazy and worked on the garden and taught us, three children, to work. Therefore, my father did not steal from the factory, there was enough for meat. And I constantly brought skates and skis from the factory to go skiing. The factory had a fund of sports equipment. Any employee could use it.
                Quote: Commihunter

                I studied the history of the Holodomor from the stories of people who lived at that time, the history of the Gulag from a couple of relatives who managed to visit them during the time of Stalin. One by the way

                So I had a neighbor in the country. And this topic was discussed in detail with him.
                I ask - D. Kolya, honestly, what was he in prison for? - For the cause. There were no people there that were out of place. I worked there - felling the forest. He fulfilled the norm. Overfulfilled - extra rations in the canteen. He came out ahead of schedule, for "shock work". Brought from there a pocket of money, two letters of commendation and a Finnish chainsaw. So that's it. There were also those who did not want to work, from the thieves. To those and the attitude was different.
                Quote: Commihunter

                Because the collective farmer was forcibly pulled into the collective farm, and he really had no choice. You can’t leave without a passport.

                And the father of this D. Koli, grandfather Trofim, St. George Cavalier himself saw the crosses when he gave his daughter for remaking on earrings.
                So he entered the collective farm voluntarily, and took the stallion to the collective farm. And his neighbor also entered and took the ox to the collective farm. But for some reason, there was nothing to feed the cattle on the collective farm in winter. And the board decided to return the cattle to the owners. D. Trofim saved the stallion, and the neighbor killed the ox and drove to the bazaar. And in the spring, when it was again necessary to bring cattle to the collective farm, the grandfather said - I will take it back if the ox’s neighbor leads. They started to scandalize, and the grandfather left the collective farm and never entered into it again. And no one did anything to him and there were no consequences for him. And his daughter, as she grew up, joined the collective farm and was a tractor-driver.
                I could tell a lot of interesting things.
                Quote: Commihunter
                And you are free now.

                Have you ever thought about the meaning of the word - freedom?
                The word itself is an empty phrase.
                For example - I want to go to my daughter, but I have no money. This is freedom?
                I urgently need to go to the hospital, but I have not yet collected the required amount. This is freedom? For the common man, freedom is what?
                I’ll tell you - for a simple person, freedom is when a husband and wife, leaving their children to their grandmother, are forced to go to distant lands to earn their daily bread. This is what your vaunted freedom turns into.
                Quote: Commihunter

                Oh yes, and pensions of 18-40 rubles in the villages was this normal?

                In the village where I have a summer residence, as you know, there is no collective farm, which means there is no work. What do people live with? And milk, vegetables, fruits are taken to the market in the city, by the new year they sell stolen pines from the forest, and in the summer the main income is the forest. First berries, then rib. That's how they survive.
                Would you like to live like this? The villagers, under any authority, are not good.
                Although, starting in the 60s, they began to live well. Everyone was completely detuned, and since the mid-70s, almost every yard has had a car, a heavy motorcycle.
        2. WW2
          -1
          12 January 2019 00: 33
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          Have you ever asked yourself the question - why do you need passports?

          What was needed was not a passport; what was needed was a passport. And free travel abroad. To leave this damn Paradise forever and show his slave owner (called the "state") from there a fig with a poppy.
          But the slave owner (USSR) was not. He just did not distribute passports, and surrounded the territory of Paradise with a thorn around which he let soldiers with dogs, placing watchtowers everywhere. Like a big zone. So that the "happy Soviet people" do not run away.
          And those who were caught were put in the punishment cell of Paradise. The Gulag was called. For 10 years. And then they were shot (under Dzhugashvili).
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          The collective farmer did not work in the state, - on the collective farm.

          Who are you telling such nonsense to? The collective farm was the same state enterprise as the state farm. Only his papers were different. But in fact, no difference.
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          Labor productivity was very low. And only when equipment came to the collective farm, labor productivity increased, did the workday become significant.

          And collective farmers are wealthy? Something I have never heard that people were drawn to the villages to move. Everything was somehow the other way around.
          But here is just an ambush, no passports. And then, when they gave their passports, they tightened their registration.
          Sit the slave in the place indicated to you and do not twitch.
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          About the famine of 32-33 and the Gulag, I will not even talk to you. This is a conversation for middle and higher minds.

          You do not belong to them?
          Well, at least honestly.
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          You know, there is such a joke in which everything - true - can be given to an elephant 200 kg. bananas.
          Maybe it’s possible, but who will give them to him?

          And your opponent has nothing to answer. Because he is right in everything. So joke flat and inappropriate.
          1. -5
            12 January 2019 00: 48
            "Having calculated the optimal route on the map, on the night of December 13, 1974, he jumped from the stern of the ship into the water. Without food, drink or sleep, Stanislav sailed to Siargao Island (Philippines) for more than two days."
            I always remember this quote about Stanislav Vasilievich Kurilov.
            In the USSR there was such a "paradise" that a person swam for two days to get out of it.
            1. WW2
              -6
              12 January 2019 00: 57
              Quote: Commihunter
              In the USSR there was such a "paradise" that a person swam for two days to get out of it.

              And that's not all. He swam in those places where the sea is teeming with sharks. And they simply did not eat it by a miracle. Here's the risk.
              You can also recall Lily Gasinsky. She jumped into the sea through a porthole near Australia.
          2. +3
            12 January 2019 12: 17
            [quote = WW2] I didn’t need a passport, I needed a passport. [/ quote]
            Those. You agree that a person does not need a passport.
            So tell Commihunter (Mikola) about it, otherwise he is offended that they did not give passports.
            [quote = WW2]
            Who are you telling such nonsense to? The collective farm was the same state enterprise as the state farm. Only his papers were different. But in fact, no difference. [/ Quote]
            Kokhoz is a collective farm. It was led by a chairman who was elected at a meeting of the collective (meeting of collective farmers). The collective farm had a charter that guided the chairman.
            The state farm is a Soviet economy. It was led by a director appointed, not elected. And he was guided not by the charter, but by the Labor Code.

            And collective farmers are wealthy? Something I have never heard that people were drawn to the villages to move. Everything was somehow the other way around. [/ Quote]
            So now no one wants to live in a village. Everyone is eager for the city. Explain why? Or do you think of it yourself?
            [quote = WW2]
            But here is just an ambush, no passports. And then, when they gave their passports, they tightened their registration. [/ Quote]
            Well, you and moody type. Give you more food and cheaper and let all the collective farmers into the city. You really choose one thing. Both that and another at the same time it only happens in fairy tales.
            And how is it - tightened the registration? Residence permit is either there or not.
            It was introduced because such cunning gentlemen like you did not pay for housing and communal services.
            Say - I do not live here, I just went to drink tea.
            [quote = WW2] Sit the slave in the place indicated to you and do not twitch. [/ quote]
            Well, of course. The state built factories, and workers were ordered from Mars to build these factories and to work at these factories. After all, their "slaves" were sitting in the villages without passports with a cruel registration and did not twitch. [Quote = WW2]
            And your opponent has nothing to answer. Because he is right in everything. So joke flat and inappropriate. [/ Quote]
            No, not because there is nothing. It’s simple - even the seven wise men will not be able to answer the question of one, let’s say — an unwise person.
            1. WW2
              -1
              12 January 2019 12: 32
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              Those. You agree that a person does not need a passport.
              So tell Commihunter (Mikola) about it, otherwise he is offended that they did not give passports.

              He takes offense at the fact that people were held by cattle and forbidden them to move from place to place.
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              It was led by a chairman who was elected at a meeting of the collective (meeting of collective farmers).

              All, after this nonsense, immediately "goodbye".
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              It was introduced because such cunning gentlemen like you did not pay for housing and communal services.

              Gee-gee-gee. No, well, you're the provocateur yet.
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              The state built factories, and workers were discharged from Mars for the construction of these plants and for work in these plants.

              Yes, do not care about that state. I also found a precious swell! If it cannot attract labor on a voluntary basis, then well, its in the ass. In the trash of history.
              1. +2
                13 January 2019 19: 44
                Quote: WW2

                He takes offense at the fact that people were held by cattle and forbidden them to move from place to place.

                You can’t imagine more nonsense.
                I will repeat it again for those who are especially duped .. The country was industrializing. Those. built factories, factories. Who built it? After all, the townspeople are already at factories and other institutions. Did the villagers "forbid you to move from place to place"? Do you even realize what nonsense you are talking about? Yes, the villagers did not have passports, as they were unnecessary. If a peasant decided to leave for the city, he came to the village council and there he was given a certificate - Gr. Ivanov I.I. goes (he is not sent, he goes) to Ensk for construction, etc., to study there, to such and such a plant. Everything.
                I don’t have a scanner, I would have sent such a certificate from the village council to my father here.
                Less Gozmanovs, Svanidze, Poznerov listen. And get smarter right away.
                Quote: WW2

                Gee-gee-gee. No, well, you're the provocateur yet.

                Am I saying something wrong? And think about it? Logically? What is a registration for?
                Quote: WW2

                Yes, do not care about that state. I also found a precious swell! If it cannot attract labor on a voluntary basis, then well, its in the ass. In the trash of history.

                Empty chatter. Can you imagine someone coming, arresting someone and taking them to work at the newly built plant?
                I cant.
                1. WW2
                  -3
                  13 January 2019 20: 02
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  The country carried out industrialization.

                  Yes, sneezing on this country?
                  Clear?
                  The interests of the individual (the only one) are more important than the interests of all countries combined.
                  And the state is a tool to satisfy the interests of each person living in it. So understandable?
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  Yes, the villagers did not have passports, as unnecessary.

                  Here you would have to take it away "as unnecessary." I would look at you.
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  If the villager decided to leave for the city, he came to the village council and there he was given a certificate

                  Or did not give out. There were actually 2 options.
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  I don’t have a scanner, I would have sent such a certificate from the village council to my father here.

                  The loafer was apparently. It was not needed on the collective farm. Therefore, I received a certificate.
                  Or the godfather of the chairman.
                  Or well greased.
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  Am I saying something wrong? And think about it? Logically? What is a registration for?

                  I am simply surprised that in the head of some individuals.
                  They will directly pray on their "beautiful collar and a beautiful chain on it."
                  And so, as the owner fed, as fed. Sometimes a full bowl of slop daily issued. And sometimes, only half a mask. And sometimes he didn’t feed him for weeks on end.
                  But everything was early, it was good.
                  It was wonderful.
                  And the chain around his neck rattled so beautifully.
                  And now, bad.
                  Do you want to eat well, work.
                  But we don’t know how to work.
                  And we don’t want to.
                  We can go to work.
                  And laze around there.
                  And for this, now no one gives a nifig.
                  Therefore, it is very bad now.
                  Worse than it was.
                  For loafers.
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  Can you imagine someone coming, arresting someone and taking them to work at the newly built plant?

                  Of course not. You forgot the intermediate link, the "Soviet court". They were taken to the plant or timber only after visiting (sometimes in absentia) this institution.
                  1. +1
                    13 January 2019 23: 14
                    Quote: WW2
                    The interests of the individual (the only one) are more important than the interests of all countries combined.

                    it is not Soviet. This is from the Carnegie Dale.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. +3
                    14 January 2019 01: 38
                    Quote: WW2

                    The interests of the individual (the only one) are more important than the interests of all countries combined.

                    Well, do not live in society if your personal interests are higher than the interests of the state in which you live. On a desert island and a flag in your hands. Live your personal interests. But no, how am I going to live without this despicable society. Who will serve my beloved, heal, teach, protect, etc., etc., etc.
                    You are either stupid or cursing. I don’t understand. Your personal interests very often can come into conflict with the rules, written and unwritten, of the hostel. Those. transgress the law.
                    Millions of soldiers of the Red Army gave their lives for personal interest?
                    No, for the interests of society, the state. And those who are for personal interest, he was on the other side of the front. Are you not their descendant?
  45. -6
    11 January 2019 19: 49
    Quote: Dude
    And they steal, rob, kill in all countries, on all continents, at all times and under any political system. Did not know? And, yes, the bureaucrats at the front are now quietly standing, as if no longer stretched out! Only here the council on the bureaucrat-official was easier, and they did not bury so much

    So what is the difference?
    Is that now "more" and then "less"? So this is a very controversial issue.
    Or is it that then all these were "flaws", but now "system"? So again, no difference - they pulled out my wallet as a result of remnants or through the system. or the official hurt me for the same reasons.
    Well, and most importantly, socialism has died, and has not been able to overcome "some shortcomings and survivals", and capitalism is alive as if nothing had happened. Marx and Engels tried - they wrote, they predicted imminent collapse, but there was no sense. Through crises and wars, he lives, and that's it.
    Well, that is, of course, someday, like any system, it will crash. But when will this happen? I think not very soon.
    1. +3
      12 January 2019 12: 21
      Quote: Mestny

      Well, that is, of course, someday, like any system, it will crash. But when will this happen? I think not very soon.

      Those. Do you agree with the conclusions of Marx?
  46. +6
    11 January 2019 19: 56
    We are made to believe in the impossibility of the ideals of the USSR. This is because the authorities brought the people and the country to the edge. This is another brainwash.
    1. -5
      11 January 2019 22: 05
      The USSR perfectly proved the impracticability of its ideals by the very fact of its deafening collapse.
      1. -1
        13 January 2019 12: 54
        It was just that in the 60s it was necessary to build planned - market relations and allow your geniuses to earn on their inventions and also not to be closed from the whole world.
        1. -1
          13 January 2019 13: 07
          The whole world was capitalism. Which, as you know, sought to devour socialism. Do not hide from it - this is the late restructuring of Gorbachev. From him it was possible not to close only in this way - complete collapse.
          China is trying to build in its own way - but slowly and surely it still falls into capitalism.
          1. -1
            13 January 2019 17: 24
            China rose at the expense of loans - the tago of the capitalist world itself, but in this country its jokes with social programs appeared.
        2. +1
          13 January 2019 15: 38
          Quote: Vadim237
          It was just that in the 60s it was necessary to build planned - market relations and allow your geniuses to earn on their inventions and also not to be closed from the whole world.

          there was a project - in some way an analogue of the Internet, it was hacked by Khrushchev, where the planned economy became automated. At a cost it was like nuclear weapons or space .. But it was a chance for the USSR to win forever.
          1. WW2
            -3
            13 January 2019 16: 04
            Quote: aybolyt678
            in some way an analogue of the Internet, it was hacked by Khrushchev, where the planned economy became automated. At a cost it was like nuclear weapons or space .. But it was a chance for the USSR to win forever.

            Looking addicted to fantasy style?
            Just at the time of Khrushchev, the USSR and slightly reduced the backlog from the West. Before and after him, this gap was enormous. And by the 90s, it had become simply indecent.
            1. +4
              13 January 2019 23: 20
              Quote: WW2
              Just at the time of Khrushchev, the USSR and slightly reduced the backlog from the West.

              In the time of Khrushchev, there was an inertia of Stalin's achievements. Which has come to our days in the form of nuclear weapons.
              and you, in my opinion, do not own analytics and absolutely history. Because Khrushchev was the first inadequate from which the country's growth rate began to fall. Read about the style of Khrushchev's work, the manner of speech, What, besides the boot and the Corn, did the great Nikita Sergeevich?
              1. WW2
                -1
                13 January 2019 23: 29
                Quote: aybolyt678
                In the time of Khrushchev, there was an inertia of Stalin's achievements.

                We saw "Stalin's achievements" in the 30s - 40s. The bubonic plague would have wiped out less of the population.
                Quote: aybolyt678
                Because Khrushchev was the first inadequate from which the country's growth rate began to fall.

                Khrushchev's decisions feed you to this day. It was he who in 1960 pushed the 20-year program for the development of Siberia. Oil and gas today, is the result of his efforts then.
                Missiles and nuclear weapons delivery vehicles (the same nuclear parity), this is his efforts. Dzhugashvili put on bombers, which even theoretically could not reach the United States.
                1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +2
              13 January 2019 23: 43
              Quote: WW2
              Looking addicted to fantasy style?
              Just in time of Khrushchev of the USSR

              type in the search engine and deal with the name - Anatoly Ivanovich Kitov
              1. WW2
                -4
                13 January 2019 23: 55
                Quote: aybolyt678
                type in the search engine and deal with the name - Anatoly Ivanovich Kitov

                I studied. So what?
                I can write the last name of one guy. He promised to make wonderful guns. Long brainwashed. Didn’t. They shot it.
                And one more, generally promised miracles. They also shot him later.
                There were a lot of such promiseers in the USSR. Only there was no result.
                Rather, he was. In December 1991
                Incidentally, I do not rule out the possibility that this Whale in the West would have become a human being. But for this he needed to have the courage in 1945 to desert and run across to the Allies in Germany. But he didn’t do this (the execution in the USSR relied on this). And lost it.
                1. 0
                  14 January 2019 23: 45
                  Quote: WW2
                  There were a lot of such promiseers in the USSR. Only there was no result.
                  Rather, he was. In December 1991
                  Incidentally, I do not rule out the possibility that this Whale in the West would have become a human being.

                  He was not the last with us ... But in 91 the whole country wanted to become the West, because Hollywood promised capitalist communism, and therefore, December 91.
                  It’s all about the fact that under Khrushchev they began to copy a lot of the West. In addition to corn, Nikita Sergeyevich tried for example to copy some construction technologies - they did not take root and caused a small catastrophe - they did not take into account the fact that our land freezes in winter. Canceled some strategically important construction projects, including a network of river power plants ....
                  The main promiseer was Khrushchev. Yes, and after it were. Instead of automated planning, Lieberman's theory appeared. Which hammered the last nail into the lid of the coffin of the country's development. called this theory the theory of Kosygin Liberman. Understand, only carefully, learn a lot.
                  And the Kitov whom you "studied" was a brilliant mathematician. His method of calculating the flight of missiles is still used today. You re-study, my advice to you. Or go to the West, get out into the people there
                  1. 0
                    15 January 2019 17: 01
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    Hollywood promised capitalist communism, and therefore December 91.
                    Why is everything so primitive? What is the country with its ideology that declared capitalism an enemy of peace and progress, sooner or later to be destroyed if the enemy's film industry could defeat it ... To restore the previous political and economic form of practical expression of the idea of ​​social justice and the old ideology as a way of theoretical reflection of this social practice not categorically. And then Bollywood will win next time.
                    For the USSR2 to happen, it needs to be built not through the socio-political color revolutions and the struggle of the parties lobbying for them, but, having retained the idea of ​​a just society, follow small steps: 1) first we need to distinguish where the most profound and massive injustice is manifested, what are its roots and what prevents us in this situation from eliminating its cause; 2) then, design and survey work is needed in which the possibilities and resources of the current situation are examined, which allow taking a step towards solving the fixed problem or reducing its severity and mass character, which are drawn up in competing or complementary projects; 3) we implement projects and 4) we examine the effectiveness of project implementation according to parameters characterizing the state of social justice (and not according to the number of drunk pills and conducted reassuring conversations), we award those who distinguished themselves, and shoot the perpetrators; 5) see step 1.
                    And let the state security deal with ardent revoluionioners.
              2. +1
                14 January 2019 21: 20
                Quote: aybolyt678
                type in the search engine and deal with the name - Anatoly Ivanovich Kitov
                An interesting person, previously did not know about him
                Pioneers can be recognized by the arrows sticking out of their backs.
            3. The comment was deleted.
      2. +1
        13 January 2019 19: 54
        Quote: Mestny
        The USSR perfectly proved the impracticability of its ideals by the very fact of its deafening collapse.

        I put you a minus for the fact that you still did not understand why the USSR did not become.
        USSR killed purposefully.
        1. WW2
          -3
          13 January 2019 20: 17
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          USSR killed purposefully.

          Are you with peasants?
          For what?
  47. +2
    11 January 2019 20: 21
    The situation is being considered on the wrong side. The revolution was a very difficult and unfair time and after it life did not become honey, but everything changed and these changes were progressive, under socialism the people got access to knowledge, medicine, culture. At the heart of the socialist economy was the principle of action for the benefit of all parties concerned. Now capitalism, which is based on another principle, is to grasp as much as possible for itself, ignoring the vital interests of the majority of the country's citizens, and generally ignoring the interests of the state. Today, a rotten information field, deceitful, numbing, spreading debauchery, zombifying, in a word malicious. The economy is based on the personal interests of individuals or groups of individuals, the implementation of an optimal solution is impossible. Society is degrading, laws do not work, or rather, they only partially work, in terms of the personal benefit of individuals. Over the past year, I tried to solve one personal issue, I could not. Walking around officials, courts, lawyers left a precipitate of impassable stupidity, an unashamed money-sucker without an intention to do any work, unwillingness and inability to understand. For 7 lawyers, only one, without delving deeply, gave a key phrase to resolve the issue, but this is an expensive lawyer, my minor problem is not worth the money, the rest is a complete zero. Judges do not accept at all, send to lawyers, applications are not considered. In general, the triumph of tyranny and lawlessness. And how simple it was in the USSR: there was a conflict, I say, we go to the judge, they came, explained the problem, asked how from the point of view of the law, answered. They decided on that, you won’t go across the law, they did it without trial as it should be according to the law. 10 minutes. and the problem is resolved. And now there is no conflict, but a court order is needed, but it is impossible to solve. If you do not change anything, the country will be destroyed. The Russians were not defeated by the Nazis, and the USSR did not lose the Cold War, they betrayed us, and now the country is being destroyed from the inside, very successfully.
    1. 0
      11 January 2019 20: 37
      Quote: olimpiada15
      The revolution was a very difficult and unfair time and after it life did not become honey, but everything changed and these changes were progressive, under socialism the people got access to knowledge, medicine, culture.

      And those who died in this unjust and difficult time - how did they like it?
      For example, I don't want to. I don’t want to watch my child dying of hunger, for example. Or how my wife is being killed - just so that whenever everything changes, and again someone gets "access to knowledge, medicine, culture."
    2. -1
      11 January 2019 20: 56
      "and the USSR did not lose the Cold War"

      Lost also and how. And the most shameful thing is that they defeated him with ordinary sausage, I remember what lines were in the first McDonald's :)
      1. +1
        14 January 2019 22: 22
        Quote: Commihunter
        defeated him with ordinary sausage, I remember what lines were in the first McDonald's
        There is no need to identify with the whole USSR: many of the first Ms did not see at all, and if they did, they looked at those standing in these lines as savages.
    3. WW2
      -3
      12 January 2019 00: 36
      Quote: olimpiada15
      Russians were not defeated by the Nazis

      The Russians did not fight the Nazis (Italians). They didn’t even fight the Nazis.
      They fought with the Nazis and fascists including Soviet.
      And Russia did not fight, it was not then. He fought the USSR.
      1. -1
        13 January 2019 12: 55
        Actually, the RSFSR was - she fought.
        1. WW2
          -1
          13 January 2019 16: 06
          Quote: Vadim237
          In general, the RSFSR was-she fought.

          RSFSR was. But she did not fight, but the USSR fought.
          In addition, the RSFSR, this is not Russia. There were no citizens of the RSFSR; there were citizens of the USSR.
          1. -1
            13 January 2019 17: 26
            The USSR consisted of republics - the republics fought.
            1. WW2
              -1
              13 January 2019 17: 35
              Quote: Vadim237
              USSR consisted of republics

              I do not argue.
              Quote: Vadim237
              fought the republic.

              He fought the USSR. RSFSR citizenship was not. And nobody was called up to the army of the RSFSR.
      2. +1
        14 January 2019 12: 21
        Quote: WW2
        Quote: olimpiada15
        Russians were not defeated by the Nazis

        The Russians did not fight the Nazis (Italians). They didn’t even fight the Nazis.
        They fought with the Nazis and fascists including Soviet.
        And Russia did not fight, it was not then. He fought the USSR.

        Those. were there no Russians in the Red Army? Alone WW2? You have to go to the doctor.
        So far, maybe it's not too late. Or maybe it's too late. After such and such statements.
        I want to remind you that in Soviet passports, unlike Russian ones, nationality was placed.
        Those. there were Russians in the USSR. But in Russia there are no Russians; there are only Russians.
    4. +1
      13 January 2019 15: 44
      ++++++++++++ to you !!
      Quote: olimpiada15
      If you do not change anything, the country will be destroyed.
      Power and financial orchestra in the country in the hands of an anti-people minority
    5. -2
      14 January 2019 22: 01
      Quote: olimpiada15
      Society is degrading, laws do not work, or rather, they only partially work, in terms of the personal benefit of individuals.
      Degrades? It turns out that in the 90s laws worked better for a larger circle of people than today? Everything turned upside down. We were just in the 90s 20 years younger, more cheerful (if the number 15 in a nickname is not age).
      1. +2
        14 January 2019 23: 58
        Quote: sniperino
        Degrades?

        society is degrading. Pension reform is a prime example. Respect for age is a sign of culture
        Quote: sniperino
        It turns out that in the 90s laws worked better for a larger circle of people than today?
        you do not give the 90s as an example, but earlier.
        Quote: sniperino
        Everything turned upside down.
        vice versa! very intelligible and substantive. The relationship was just that. My mom, a dentist, couldn't take the money. maximum candy as a gift. For the money it was shameful to treat.
        Quote: sniperino
        We were just in the 90s 20 years younger, more cheerful

        for 25 to 30 years.
        1. -1
          15 January 2019 00: 32
          Quote: aybolyt678
          you do not give the 90s as an example but earlier
          And I don’t have to go earlier. In order to talk about the degradation or development of society, a quarter of a century is enough for me to compare. Everyone sees degradation in the 90s, there is no talk about it, but today's Russia is different, and it is developing.
          Quote: aybolyt678
          Pension reform is a prime example. Respect for age is a sign of culture
          You seem to know in advance that the reform will lead to an increase in poor pensioners, a reduction in average life expectancy, etc. What is disrespect?
          Quote: aybolyt678
          the dentist could not take the money. maximum candy as a gift
          In the 90s (under capitalism!) I didn’t take any money or candies with cognac from students at all and convincingly asked them not to bring flowers for the exam, but this comparison with your mother does not testify in favor of the 90s on the basis of that she took sweets in the USSR? The very idea of ​​bringing gifts to a person who just does a good job seems unhealthy to me, and she was born in the USSR, as it seems to me. Other dentists rowed everything in a row, and the head doctors - even more so, as well as among the teachers, the people were different.
          1. +1
            15 January 2019 10: 51
            Quote: sniperino
            And I don’t have to go earlier. In order to talk about the degradation or development of society,

            The USSR in different years is a completely different country. The pace of development began to fall with the death of the Leader. Therefore, if we talk about the development of society, then there is a clear regression, namely social. What you call development is just Big money received from an oil and gas pipe and invested in the military. Country development is determined by the quantity, quality and relevance of education, with a minimum distance between science and implementation. And we have more than half of Skolkovo fled over the hill.
            Quote: sniperino
            You seem to know in advance that the reform will lead to the growth of poor pensioners
            and the introduction of reform, coupled with measures to ban the dismissal of pensioners, will lead to even greater unemployment among young people. Grandparents should nurse their grandchildren and not earn money to feed unemployed children.
            Quote: sniperino
            The very idea of ​​bringing gifts to a person who just does a good job seems unhealthy to me, and she was born in the USSR,
            - This tradition was born at a time when there was a shortage. Here you are right this is an unhealthy phenomenon. But don’t take the money, because this is an indicator of culture! You consider yourself a well-mannered person and
            Quote: sniperino
            I didn’t take any money or sweets with cognac from students at all and convincingly asked them not to bring flowers for the exam
            after all, it’s not from capitalism but from the USSR that is left in this bad ??
            1. 0
              16 January 2019 16: 21
              Quote: aybolyt678
              What you call development is just Big money received from an oil and gas pipe and invested in the military.
              In the 90s, a lot of money was borrowed from the IMF and invested in "support of small business and entrepreneurship." Feel the difference.
              Quote: aybolyt678
              the implementation of the reform, coupled with measures to ban the dismissal of pensioners, will lead to even greater youth unemployment.
              This is only subject to a reduction in production. If the real sector continues to grow, then young people and pensioners will have enough work.
              Quote: aybolyt678
              after all, it’s not from capitalism but from the USSR that is left of what is bad?
              It was I who simply "flashed with scales", not claiming anywhere, at the same time, that the USSR is bad. On the contrary, I am looking for the bad thing that led the USSR to the accumulation of a critical mass of traitors, because of whom it collapsed, because without this you should not even try to build the USSR-2, why are these dancing on a rake ... Russia, as a great power , is doomed to be the center of integration processes in the Eurasian expanses; this will be the USSR-2.
    6. 0
      14 January 2019 22: 49
      Quote: olimpiada15
      And how easy it was in the USSR
      You are very lucky that you were not convicted under Andropov to pull out for a suspended term the director of the department, who otherwise would have been shining for about 5 years with confiscation, and he would have pulled the secretary of the regional committee as well. The workaholic was leaked to the camp for 5 years. The case was fabricated by a young sled from the regional prosecutor's office, the son of that same secretary. It just was. But there were no capitalists under Andropov yet, Gorbachev (the traitor) still could not be called to the Politburo. I repeat, I'm not even sure that you saw all this and really can compare, or you generalize too much personal experience. One and even several traitors cannot overthrow a great country. But if the head rots (mind, honor and conscience), then the body will fall off from a light treacherous push.
      1. +2
        15 January 2019 00: 08
        Quote: sniperino
        One and even several traitors cannot overthrow a great country. But if the head rots (mind, honor and conscience), then the body will fall off from a light treacherous push.

        few traitors are enough to overthrow the country. Gorbachev is a talking head. All the work was done by Yakovlev, some of Suslov's entourage, and perhaps even Andropov. By and large, everything starting with Khrushchev. Do you think there were really no agents of Western intelligence, counterintelligence and other services, who were using, for example, Khrushchev in "dark", playing on an eccentric character, surrounded by those elders ??
        Perestroika is a project played out on notes from the capture of key posts - the press, the army ... where the mass consciousness of Soviet people was gradually destroyed, with the destruction of the principles of basic social consciousness, it acquires an unstable position and then even a small push breaks the system.
        and the Olympics is writing correctly.
        1. +1
          15 January 2019 01: 57
          Quote: aybolyt678
          By and large, everything starting with Khrushchev
          What kind of country is this, the majority of the top leaders of which have voluntarily or involuntarily become traitors to their people? Is it not obvious that its builders missed something important that made the country possessing the richest natural and labor resources, formidable nuclear weapons and highly professional KGB, defenseless against a bunch of traitors, with enviable constancy in the upper echelons of power. This power was not imported from Mars. There is clearly something missing in this historical science fiction. This is what Viktor Kamenev writes.
          1. +1
            15 January 2019 10: 06
            Quote: sniperino
            What kind of country is this, the majority of the top leaders of which have voluntarily or involuntarily become traitors to their people?

            Politics is a dirty business. The path to power, each step is the bones of competitors.
            The people are a very heterogeneous structure, in which political forces with real power and influence and money are numbered in units and dozens, and those entitled to "one" vote are in the millions.
            Quote: sniperino
            Is it not obvious that its builders missed something important that made the country possessing the richest natural and labor resources, formidable nuclear weapons and highly professional KGB, defenseless against a bunch of traitors,

            Quote: sniperino
            Quote: aybolyt678
            By and large, everything starting with Khrushchev
            What kind of country is this, the majority of the top leaders of which have voluntarily or involuntarily become traitors to their people? Is it not obvious that its builders missed something important that made the country possessing the richest natural and labor resources, formidable nuclear weapons and highly professional KGB, defenseless against a bunch of traitors, with enviable constancy in the upper echelons of power. This power was not imported from Mars. There is clearly something missing in this historical science fiction. This is what Viktor Kamenev writes.

            you write the country yourself while you have it, natural resources become world heritage, there are enough manpower in the world, and ours are not in demand, nuclear weapons protect the right of our oligarchs to rule.
            And what is missing is the process of educating your own Elite. What is now called the elite is a substitution of the term. For example, how if freedom is called permissiveness, which implies impunity, and then banditocracy, as it is. The social function of the Elite is to show how to live and die. The elite serves the people and cannot have real estate abroad. If she studies abroad, then in order to develop her country and not go on a business trip to it.
  48. +4
    11 January 2019 20: 25
    The USSR will be different .. Hang gentlemen!
    No wonder you raised such a howl in your media ..
    1. -4
      11 January 2019 20: 43
      The USSR will not be new at all - with no one and no one.
      1. +6
        11 January 2019 23: 38
        Will be. Of course. Homo, if he Sapiens just need to get off the tree.
        1. -4
          12 January 2019 00: 53
          There is such a cool joke.
          We decided like a hare to ask the advice of a wise owl - how to be. They say that there were no predators living in the forest. Let's go ask. The owl thought, thought, and says - you need to learn how to fly.
          Hares to her - but how? Do we have wings?
          - These are your problems - how. I suggested the idea to you, then myself.

          So here - you just need to get off the tree. Only.
          Yes, if a person gets down from a tree - he will no longer be a person. Something else, but not him. And this other civilization will also build another - as is usual in nature ruthlessly destroying an obsolete species.
          1. +1
            15 January 2019 00: 10
            Quote: Mestny
            Yes, if a person gets down from a tree - he will no longer be a person. Something other

            do you mean a monkey will climb down a tree? and will it be a man? Or does he also need to dig a digging stick first?
        2. -1
          12 January 2019 12: 05
          There are no prerequisites for this — all the countries of the former USSR are self-explanatory.
      2. 0
        15 January 2019 10: 09
        Quote: Vadim237
        The USSR will not be new at all - with no one and no one.

        I want to put a minus and a plus! I’ll put a plus, you’re right, although there are smart and good people, they don’t have sufficient opportunities for access to power.
        confuses the word AT ALL. I think that there is Lenin with Stalin, there is a public demand, if only they were real and capable of self-sacrifice.
    2. 0
      15 January 2019 02: 48
      Quote: Spiritual
      The USSR will be different .. Hang gentlemen!
      They found an approach to the USSR, but apparently they didn’t even count on the other.
      Quote: Spiritual
      No wonder you raised such a howl in your media
      The hashtags of # Uweibsebeputin and # Ubeirussky, Sumerian and Israeli fascists with our liberals are driving a wave on the network, especially in LJ.
  49. +6
    11 January 2019 20: 40
    Explain what is being built in Russia? Which society?
    1. -3
      11 January 2019 22: 10
      Who cares. The main thing is to build.
      Leave us alone, destroyers, revolutionaries, truth-tellers. You see what’s coming out of us.
      But it won’t work out, so we ourselves will collapse. Then welcome, try.
      1. +2
        12 January 2019 01: 40
        Quote: Mestny

        Who cares. The main thing is to build.
        Leave us alone, destroyers, revolutionaries, truth-tellers. You see what’s coming out of us.

        GYGYGY)))) Pus will come out from you already, there is nothing left to go))))
        Quote: Mestny
        But it won’t work out, so we ourselves will collapse.

        Who are you? I smell, you ghouls oil and gas)))) So then do not expect your death to leave)
      2. 0
        15 January 2019 03: 18
        Quote: Mestny
        Who cares. The main thing is to build.
        We’ll see what we’ve built, if we live, and today it’s more important to understand how it is possible and how it is impossible to build a society and, as far as possible, to join the process.
    2. WW2
      -2
      12 January 2019 00: 38
      Quote: uizik
      Explain what is being built in Russia? Which society?

      Learn social studies and political economy.
      Behind the slave society with its development comes a feudal society. Is always. And never immediately comes the bourgeois. Only through the feudal. There is no other way.
    3. +3
      13 January 2019 23: 32
      Quote: uizik
      Explain what is being built in Russia? Which society?

      In modern Russia, a society is being built on the principles of pragmatism, it is this word that our president loves. As I understand it, this means from the position of those holding power that the main point is to profit. And that means that in order for the cow to eat less and give more milk, it needs to be milked more and less fed. For people familiar with cows, it’s clear that this approach will kill both the cow and the country. But for those unfamiliar with cows, the Duma and the Government, this approach seems true and pragmatic.
      1. 0
        15 January 2019 03: 29
        Quote: aybolyt678
        In modern Russia, a society is being built on the principles of pragmatism, it is this word that our president loves. As I understand it, this means from the position of those holding power that the main point is to profit.
        What a twist, aibolit? the pragmatist seeks not benefits, but benefits (benefits for all).
        1. 0
          18 January 2019 20: 09
          Quote: sniperino
          What a twist, aibolit? the pragmatist seeks not benefits, but benefits (benefits for all).

          benefits for all who consider their own ??? winked You can consider your own as yours, your own can be considered your party or political group, or is it your own financial oligarchy ??? . Obviously, pensioners and people close to them are no longer considered their own.
          to you for erudition: democracy is the power of the people, but not of the whole people of enlightened Athens, but only of the demos - healthy, literate people who have the right to vote - in my opinion there were 7 indicators. And besides the demos in Athens lived okhlos, and plephos. They had nothing to do with democracy.
  50. +7
    11 January 2019 22: 08
    . ... It's a pity, but the author got lost
    I mixed everything in a bunch
    Or he overworked
    Ile blundered ...
    1. +7
      11 January 2019 23: 01
      Quote: candidate
      . ... It’s a pity, but the author got lost In a heap all mixed up Or he overworked Or corny blundered ...
      As some forum users wrote, eclecticism, a confusion ..... and I agree. The question is different, the author took and wrote such a large theoretical article, but for what? Someone asked such questions or what they discussed earlier, but I missed? After the article a firm certainty appeared ------ USSR is possible to build. Question ---- when?
  51. +7
    11 January 2019 22: 23
    Well, truly, it’s a pity, a very pity!
    You can agree with the author or disagree, but the article could be an excellent opportunity to speculate, express and justify your positions. Did not work out. It all came down to mutual reproaches, yet another repetition of old arguments and conversation through the lips.
    The article is about the construction of the USSR 2.0
    The immediate question is - why? What is the purpose of such construction? What meanings do we put into this concept - USSR 2.0. How can we talk about what will work and what will not work, without even formulating the idea that we are going to implement.
    Do we want to make a copy of the former USSR? Is there a social need for this? Do people really want this? Are they ready to take part in this? Workers in 17 received 14 rubles. per month and could only afford a rented bed in a primitive dorm and a bowl of porridge with rusty herring. So they were ready to change something. How are we doing with passionaries today, are there any?
    Our modern society can be roughly divided into two parts - those who lived in the USSR and allowed themselves to be robbed, and those who entered conscious age after the collapse of the country, for them the Union is Terra Incognita.
    The first are conditional "defeatists", the second are conditional "foreigners". How to unite these two mentally different halves? The latter do not know any other reality other than the one in which they grew up. They are separated from our generation by a civilizational gap - for them, virtual reality is almost more real than real reality. (I'm exaggerating, of course, but...) They will perceive the attempt to restore the USSR as a return to the Stone Age. They will be helped to perceive it this way.
    Do we have an ideology capable of uniting two generations and inspiring them to build the USSR 2.0?
    Is there even a Social Need capable of perceiving an Idea and becoming an Ideology for such construction? And what is that Idea? And what could Ideology be then? Let's talk about this.
    1. WW2
      -2
      12 January 2019 01: 47
      Quote: Shepherd
      Workers in 17 received 14 rubles. per month and could only afford a rented bed in a primitive dorm and a bowl of porridge with rusty herring.

      Why are you writing obvious nonsense? At least read Khrushchev's memoirs. Just before WW1 he was a turner. So read how he lived as a turner under the “damned tsarism”. Any Soviet engineer would salivate. Out of envy.
      And the “rusty herring” is a Soviet reality. Have you seen a rusty herring anywhere now? No, it was only grown in the USSR.
      Quote: Shepherd
      They will perceive the attempt to restore the USSR as a return to the Stone Age.

      So, are they mistaken about something? There will be a return to the Stone Age.
      1. +2
        12 January 2019 10: 34
        Quote: WW2
        Why are you writing obvious nonsense?

        Khrushchev's memoirs are his personal life and personal opinion. I can find you a link to a scientific work - a dissertation by E. Emelyants on the life of workers at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. Rich factual material based on archival documents, including journals of factory inspectors.
        A good turner could actually earn significantly more, like other professional workers.
        But most of the workers kept themselves in a “black body”: delays in wages, fines, vile casuistry when calculating wages, etc.
        The factory inspectors' journals are very interesting. They were written not by revolutionaries, but by civil servants.
        Quote: WW2
        "rusty herring" is a Soviet reality.

        This is the reality of difficult economic stages, and if something happens, we will get to know it.
        At the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the temperance movement was widespread in Russia, millions of people took part in it. As a form of helping workers in the fight against drunkenness, they used the opening of teahouses, where for a minimum wage one could eat and listen to educational lectures on various topics.
        Teahouses were a convenient tool for educational activities, but they were also a significant help for poorly fed workers. (If you want to get acquainted with this in more detail, then type into the search engine: Alexander Nevsky Brotherhood of Temperance).
        Quote: WW2
        There will be a return to the Stone Age.

        I am for the correct formulation of the problem, then it will be possible to carry out a detailed analysis.
        Returning to the USSR or building USSR 2.0 are radically, or even radically different things.
        The mentality of society, the level of living, nutrition, education, medicine, means of communication, the general information background and much more have changed. Can this be ignored?
        1. WW2
          -3
          12 January 2019 10: 46
          Quote: Shepherd
          But most of the workers kept themselves in a “black body”: delays in wages, fines, vile casuistry when calculating wages, etc.

          Don't confuse laborers and laborers.
          By the way, proletarians are just general workers, not workers. And here the Bolsheviks had a perversion of Marx.
          Quote: Shepherd
          This is the reality of difficult economic stages, and if something happens, we will get to know it.

          Why did the Russian people need this 75-year endless and meaningless “difficult economic stage”?
          Quote: Shepherd
          Returning to the USSR or building USSR 2.0 are radically, or even radically different things.
          The mentality of society, the level of living, nutrition, education, medicine, means of communication, the general information background and much more have changed. Can this be ignored?

          Can be ignored.
          How society in the USSR degraded (in 2 main stages) earlier. It can degrade so well even now.
          I will point out the main milestones - in February-March 1917, a bourgeois revolution took place in Russia.
          In June (if I'm not mistaken) 1940, the reactionary transformation of society was completed in the USSR and the slave system (in theocratic form) was established everywhere.
          Those. in just 23 years, society degenerated 2 steps down, successfully passing the feudal phase.
          And it really happened. Why can't something like this happen again?
          1. +3
            12 January 2019 11: 31
            Quote: WW2
            Don't confuse laborers and laborers.

            oh breeed
            Quote: WW2
            Why did the Russian people need this 75-year endless and meaningless “difficult economic stage”?

            probably so that you can write this nonsense on the Internet, and not work 12 hours 6 days a week at a machine without social guarantees
            Quote: WW2
            In 1940, the reactionary transformation of society was completed in the USSR and the slave system was established everywhere

            finally turn off the Internet
            1. WW2
              -4
              12 January 2019 11: 56
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              and not working 12 hours 6 days a week at a machine without social guarantees

              You tell this to those teenagers who worked 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, without weekends or holidays, for a work card. Moreover, they could not leave the enterprise, for this they were supposed to be sentenced to 5 years in the camps.
              Tell them about the “great achievements of socialism.”
              And find me a bourgeois country (any) where someone works 12 hours 6 days a week. This is only in your imagination. But the Soviet teenagers mentioned above really existed.
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              finally turn off the Internet

              But then we will lose you. However, it’s not a pity.
          2. +2
            12 January 2019 12: 28
            Quote: WW2
            Don't confuse laborers and laborers.

            I'm not confusing. There is a lot of factual material on historical topics on the Internet. There are tables by industry: where and how much workers received - from 8 to 14 rubles (average, from archival sources).
            You rather mention the working intelligentsia, and the figures I cited reflect the material income of the majority of workers of that time. If you also look at the table of expenses (living in the city consumed the lion's share of money), you will understand why the worker's diet was so poor.
            Quote: WW2
            Why did the Russian people need this 75-year endless and meaningless “difficult economic stage”?

            This stage has become a historical pattern. Perhaps, under other circumstances, we would have gone through it in a more gentle manner, but it was as it was. The difficulty of passing through this period is determined by the depth of the lag both at the economic and mental levels: to build a modern economy you need a large number of people with a technical - not agrarian - thinking. By 1917, the population of the Russian Empire was divided as follows: 80% were rural residents and 20% were urban residents. During the years of Soviet power, everything changed exactly the opposite. A mental and civilizational leap took place, without which we would not have been able to resist industrialized Germany (compare the figures for coal production and consumption in the Republic of Ingushetia and Germany), and now we could not lay claim not only to world leadership, but simply to any kind of independence.
            The Soviet Union is not only partelites, repression and punitive psychiatry. The main thing in its history is the enormous selfless work of several generations of people, and it certainly was not meaningless.
            Quote: WW2
            The slave system (in theocratic form) was established everywhere.

            The mobilization regime on the eve of a war with the strongest military power in Europe and the slave system are not the same thing, I would share these concepts (even with all the costs).
            Quote: WW2
            society in the USSR degraded (in 2 main stages) earlier. It can degrade so well even now.

            Quote: WW2
            Can be ignored.

            I see a logical inconsistency here. Do you acknowledge the presence of degradation processes in society and, at the same time, propose to ignore them?
            The article is devoted to the problem of creating a state structure in the USSR 2.0 format
            Is it possible to seriously discuss this problem without a detailed study of the mentality of society and its properties?
            1. WW2
              -4
              12 January 2019 13: 06
              Quote: Shepherd
              You mention rather the working-class intelligentsia,

              Well, yes, turner Khrushchev, this is the intelligentsia in your opinion.
              Quote: Shepherd
              If you also take a look at the spending table

              Yes, I wanted to sneeze at the tables of income and expenses.
              This is not the point, the point is that even the high-ranking communist Khrushchev admitted in his memoirs that the worker lived better under the tsar than under “socialism.” That's the whole point.
              Quote: Shepherd
              This stage has become a historical pattern.

              Whaaaat?
              Was the degradation of society (the Soviets, and then socialism) a pattern?
              Then both AIDS and cancer in humans are also a pattern in your opinion?
              USSR, it was a cancerous tumor on the body of Russia.
              Quote: Shepherd
              The difficulty of passing this period is determined by the depth of the lag both at the economic and mental levels.

              Tell these stories to schoolchildren and grandmothers. They can do it, they will believe it.
              In fact, society at the time of the bourgeois revolution in Russia did not have enough stars in the sky. And it was even clearly immature for the bourgeois revolution (the revolutionaries, and these were not Bolsheviks, in February-March 1917 they were clearly in a hurry). Tea Russia, in terms of the degree of development of society in those years, is not Germany. And there the revolution took place in 1918. This means that in Russia it should have happened no earlier than the mid-20th century.
              But this did not give the Bolsheviks a reason to first restore the feudal TVET (NEP) in the country. And then completely introduce slaveholding (socialism).
              The haste of the revolutionaries led to the fact that the revolution was unable to defend itself (support from below was very weak) and the scoundrels (Bolsheviks) took advantage of the unstable situation in the country.
              You can blame them for this. You can NOT blame them for this. But the fact is that they were supported by the population of Russia (that same society that had not matured into a bourgeois society). Having bought into their promises to plunder the rich and give everything to them, the shaggy people. To be honest, people like this inspire a bad attitude towards him. And the socialism that followed was apparently retribution for his greed. You have to pay for everything in this life, this is the basic rule of life.
              But for those who were born around 1905 or later, I really feel sorry for them. They were really unlucky in life. They could not influence the situation; they had to suffer somehow until their death. Some of them suffered with pleasure. Becoming adherents of socialism.
              Quote: Shepherd
              The main thing in its history is the enormous selfless work of several generations of people, and it certainly was not meaningless.

              This is precisely its main feature: its meaninglessness. Yes, we worked a lot. But they dug a hole in the morning and buried it in the evening. Basically like that.
              Actually, these are the basics of political economy. Slave labor is ALWAYS unproductive. It is even less productive than the labor of peasants and artisans under feudalism. That is why the slave system in the world was replaced first by feudal and then by capitalist.
              Quote: Shepherd
              Mobilization regime on the eve of war with the strongest military power in Europe

              1. The USSR always had “the threshold of war.” Otherwise, he simply could not function.
              2. The strongest military power in Europe (and the world) in 1940 was Britain.
              Quote: Shepherd
              and the slave system are not the same thing, I would separate these concepts.

              There is no need to divide the inseparable. Moreover, according to the statements of the Bolsheviks themselves, socialism (i.e., a slave-owning society of the theocratic type) was built in the USSR in December 1936. And then for another 3,5 years they simply “cleared the clearing.” Already your own clearing.
              Quote: Shepherd
              Do you acknowledge the presence of degradation processes in society and, at the same time, propose to ignore them?

              I don’t offer anything at all.
              I am just pointing out that the movement of society can be in any direction. And nothing can be ruled out.
              1. 0
                12 January 2019 14: 27
                Quote: WW2
                Khrushchev admitted in his memoirs that the worker lived better under the tsar than under “socialism.” That's the whole point.

                can you link to the source?
                1. WW2
                  -3
                  12 January 2019 15: 34
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                  can you link to the source?

                  Am I here, the information desk?
                  Internet to help.
                  1. +1
                    12 January 2019 15: 45
                    tell me, if I write that Tsar Kiryukha wrote in his memoirs that under the USSR everyone lived better than under the Tsar, will you believe me or demand a link to the original source?!
                    1. WW2
                      -3
                      12 January 2019 15: 53
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      tell me, if I write that Tsar Kiryukha wrote in his memoirs that under the USSR everyone lived better than under the Tsar, will you believe me or demand a link to the original source?!

                      First, I will compare all the data that I know about the times of Tsar Kiryukha, and then I will make a decision.
                      1. +1
                        12 January 2019 17: 14
                        so prove that I'm wrong, that you're lying, I proved
                      2. WW2
                        -3
                        12 January 2019 19: 15
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        so prove that I'm wrong, that you're lying, I proved

                        You have only proven that you do not know basic things. And even Ostap “did not bring any pleasure to the conversation with a smart janitor who had little understanding of the class structure of society.”
                      3. +2
                        12 January 2019 20: 49
                        Quote: WW2
                        You just proved...

                  2. +1
                    12 January 2019 16: 51
                    Quote: WW2
                    Am I here, the information desk?
                    Internet to help.

                    no you are a liar here and...
                    Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev. Memories (Book 1)
                    http://lib.ru/MEMUARY/HRUSHEW/wospominaniya1.txt
                    either provide a link to the original source or shut up
                    1. WW2
                      -3
                      12 January 2019 19: 16
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      either provide a link to the original source or shut up

                      What kind of scary thing has crawled out of the genital slit and is wriggling its legs here in such a scary way?
                      1. +2
                        12 January 2019 20: 53
                        Quote: WW2
                        What kind of scary thing has crawled out of the genital slit and is wriggling its legs here in such a scary way?

              2. +1
                12 January 2019 15: 33
                Quote: WW2
                Was the degradation of society (the Soviets, and then socialism) a pattern?

                Every action has causes and consequences. The empire degraded and collapsed - a new formation came, and now it is gone. These things don't happen without reason.
                Quote: WW2
                AIDS and cancer in humans, is this also a pattern in your opinion?

                Yes. Biological. Social. Civilizational.
                Quote: WW2
                Tell these stories to schoolchildren and grandmothers.

                I admit, I didn’t understand this part of your comment at all. Here we disagree: each about his own.
                Quote: WW2
                its main feature is its meaninglessness.

                Really? We live in cities built during the USSR, we use roads built at the same time, we have a powerful scientific school inherited from the USSR, and the population is growing. Or do you propose to measure the usefulness of a historical period in some other way?
                Quote: WW2
                The USSR always had a “preparedness to war.”

                This is a feature of our story from St. Vladimir. The advice here is simply no exception.
                Quote: WW2
                The strongest military power in Europe (and the world) in 1940 was Britain.

                The military conflict with Britain was not relevant for the USSR. And after Dunkirk, the British could only pray to God that the Germans would go east.
                Quote: WW2
                socialism (i.e. slave society

                You do not justify your opinion in any way.
                Quote: WW2
                nothing can be ruled out.

                Yes, but I would like to anticipate.
                1. WW2
                  -2
                  12 January 2019 15: 47
                  Quote: Shepherd
                  The empire degraded and collapsed - a new formation came, and now it is gone.

                  1. The empire degraded and transformed into a bourgeois state (February-March 1917). Which was then sent into the abyss by force of arms by the Bolsheviks.
                  2. Classical political economy does not know the “socialist formation”. The “political economy of socialism” knew it. But this “science” has not existed for 27 years. And it turns out there are its adherents.
                  Quote: Shepherd
                  We live in cities built during the USSR, we use roads built at the same time, we have a powerful scientific school inherited from the USSR, and the population is growing.

                  When I read such “arguments”, I am always surprised - what about the rest of the world? In the USA, Britain, France, Japan, etc. There was no socialism there. But there are roads.
                  There are cities.
                  There is even really powerful science, which never existed in the USSR.
                  No, it’s unclear, without socialism, they live well anyway. Better than the consequences of socialism. And much better than under socialism itself.
                  Quote: Shepherd
                  This is a feature of our story from St. Vladimir. The advice here is simply no exception.

                  This is a feature of Sovk. No need to distort.
                  Quote: Shepherd
                  And after Dunkirk, the British could only pray to God that the Germans would go east.

                  What so terrible happened at Dunkirk?
                  Never mind. Yes, we lost a little soldiers (really a little).
                  Yes, we lost heavy weapons (and to hell with them).
                  But the howl is universal. It feels like the sky fell to the ground at Dunkirk. And crushed Britain.
                  Why don’t you mention the fact that the British won the air “Battle of Britain”? And the fact that after losing the war in the air, the Germans had no choice but to turn their bayonets to the east?
                  So, the British didn't pray. The British were at war. And by their actions they FORCED the Germans to turn east. Although they planned to crush Britnia right away. It didn't work out.
                  Quote: Shepherd
                  You do not justify your opinion in any way.

                  Is there something that needs to be justified? No, don't. Everything is obvious there.
                  Quote: Shepherd
                  Yes, but I would like to anticipate.

                  This is according to Nostradamus and grandmother Vanga.
                  1. 0
                    12 January 2019 17: 15
                    Quote: WW2
                    The empire degraded and transformed into a bourgeois state (February-March 1917). Which was then sent into the abyss by force of arms by the Bolsheviks.
                    2

                    you forgot to mention that the bourgeois state was collapsing, and the Bolsheviks did not take power with weapons, they just said fuck off and everyone took a nap
                    1. WW2
                      -3
                      12 January 2019 19: 18
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      you forgot to mention that the bourgeois state was collapsing

                      Those. How did it fall apart? Why is this scared?
                      It worked perfectly. Until the Bolsheviks dispersed by force of arms, first the Provisional Government, and then the Constituent Assembly. After all this, the state (Russia) collapsed. Because the national outskirts did not recognize these impostors.
                      1. +4
                        12 January 2019 20: 52
                        Quote: WW2
                        It worked perfectly.

                        that is, the abolition of unity of command, mass murder of officers, rampant banditry, sabotage is normal functioning?!!
                        and I’m dragging along, dear transfer, what a hole did you come out of, baby?
                        victim of the Unified State Exam and "ear"
                      2. WW2
                        -4
                        12 January 2019 22: 21
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        that is, the abolition of unity of command, mass murder of officers, rampant banditry, sabotage is normal functioning?!!

                        The massacres of officers began later, AFTER the Bolshevik coup.
                        The same applies to banditry and sabotage.
                      3. +3
                        12 January 2019 22: 32
                        troll learn history
                        On March 3-4, 1917, about 200 career sailors, led by the commander of the Baltic Fleet, Admiral Nepenin, died during the massacre.
                      4. WW2
                        -4
                        12 January 2019 22: 41
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        On March 3-4, 1917, about 200 career sailors died during the massacre

                        I also like mass appeal. Under the Bolsheviks, officers were actually exterminated en masse.
                        Moreover, the autocracy fell only on March 3. Therefore, it is incorrect to blame the Provisional Government for the events of March 3-4.
                      5. +4
                        12 January 2019 23: 10
                        that is, just killing off the majority of Baltic Fleet officers during the war is a normal functioning of the state?!!!
                        I have serious doubts about your sanity
                  2. +2
                    12 January 2019 17: 16
                    Quote: WW2
                    Is there something that needs to be justified? No, don't. Everything is obvious there.

                    Yes, of course it’s not necessary, it’s enough to write stupidity with a smart look
                  3. +2
                    12 January 2019 18: 12
                    Quote: WW2
                    by force of arms the Bolsheviks were sent into the abyss.

                    An attempt to create a bourgeois state and a functioning bourgeois state are not the same thing. The “state” would not allow itself to be sent into the abyss.
                    Quote: WW2
                    But what about all over the world?

                    It’s very simple - the time from 1917 to 1991 is a historical period, and each nation lived it in its own way. I see no reason to believe that the Soviet people lived this time completely in vain.
                    Quote: WW2
                    This is a feature of Sovk. No need to distort.

                    Near Kaluga there is the city of Kozelsk, next to it is the famous Optina Pustyn monastery. The history of this monastery says that at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the Oka River valley from Kozelsk to Murom was a natural defensive area - a fence, and not everyone could settle there. I'm not exaggerating. Look at the map.
                    Quote: WW2
                    What so terrible happened at Dunkirk? Yes, nothing.

                    Churchill: Dunkirk, of course, had a darker side. We lost the entire armament of the army, to which all the first fruits of the labors of our factories were given: 7 thousand tons of ammunition, 90 thousand rifles, 2300 guns, 120 thousand vehicles and carts, 8 thousand Bren machine guns, 400 anti-tank rifles." ""We have there were almost no anti-tank guns and ammunition and even ordinary field artillery.” But we weren’t talking about Britain, but about the reasons that prompted the Soviet government to take tough measures.
                    I am not idealizing the Soviet Union, but it is better to remain objective.
                    Quote: WW2
                    This is part of Nostradamus

                    Foresight in science - a futurological method of defining, describing objects, phenomena of physical reality, social processes that do not exist at the time of research, which may appear and be discovered and studied in the future.
                    1. WW2
                      -2
                      12 January 2019 19: 54
                      Quote: Shepherd
                      An attempt to create a bourgeois state and a functioning bourgeois state are not the same thing.

                      The bourgeois state, it comes in different stages.
                      The first stage, the bourgeois revolution, took place in February-March 1917.
                      The second stage, the coming to power of a dictatorship of the Bonapartist type (in the USSR they mistakenly used the term “fascist”), failed. Kornilov was unable to seize power.
                      Of course, there would be a next attempt (there are events in history that are predetermined). Perhaps not under the leadership of Kornilov. But here the Bolsheviks came to the rescue and they already dispersed the Provisional Government.
                      Nobody resisted them. Why?
                      Because they were seen as the very dictatorship of the Bonapartist type. Lenin, Kornilov - what's the difference?
                      And only later, in 1918, they saw this difference and began an armed struggle against the Bolsheviks.
                      But the forces were unequal. The Bolsheviks, through promises and deceit, won over the poor people (population), as a result, the Russians (and other national formations) remained in the minority and lost the fight.
                      As a result, everything returned to normal, the old, feudal TVEs were returned. But the elite was replaced almost completely, the places of the nobles were taken by the Bolsheviks. The “proletarian revolution” (as it was called until the time of Dzhugashvili, when it was renamed “socialist”) was limited to this. Those. This is a classic reactionary coup.
                      Quote: Shepherd
                      The state would not allow itself to be sent into the abyss.

                      At different times, states have different degrees of stability. In those days, the stability of the state was at an extremely low level. This is what the Bolsheviks took advantage of.
                      Quote: Shepherd
                      the time from 1917 to 1991 is such a historical period

                      In fact, these are not the same period at all.
                      Even if we simply take “socialism,” they began to “build” it only in December 1927 (Dzhugashvili). Until that time, there was no smell of socialism in the USSR.
                      Quote: Shepherd
                      I see no reason to believe that the Soviet people lived this time completely in vain.

                      No, not in vain. And with a huge minus sign.
                      1. The population has more than halved. In 1913, 5,3% of the world's population lived in the territory of the present Russian Federation (not the entire Republic of Ingushetia). At the collapse of the USSR, 2,4% of the world's population lived.
                      2. The lag behind industrialized countries by the end of the USSR became simply hopeless.
                      Quote: Shepherd
                      I'm not exaggerating

                      What are you talking about? Why should the history of the fortress, and the monasteries were fortresses, be projected onto the whole country?
                      Quote: Shepherd
                      ""We had almost no anti-tank guns and ammunition and even ordinary field artillery"

                      You are forgetting an important thing; the British also did not have a land front in Europe at that time. Therefore, they did not need all this very quickly.
                      Quote: Shepherd
                      But we weren’t talking about Britain, but about the reasons that prompted the Soviet government to take tough measures.

                      What are the next “tough measures”?
                      The entire history of the USSR is the history of yet another “tough measures”.
                      There is no reason (and never) to take any kind of “hard measures” against the population. Remember this.
                      And if the elderly mustachioed dictator Dzhugashvili really wanted to retain power in his hands, then this should have been his problem, and not the problem of the population he captured.
                      Quote: Shepherd
                      futurological method of defining, describing objects, phenomena of physical reality, social processes that do not exist at the time of research, which may appear and be discovered and studied in the future.

                      So I say, this is for futurists like Nostradamus and Grandma Vanga.
                      1. +3
                        12 January 2019 22: 43
                        Quote: WW2
                        The Bolsheviks, through promises and deceit, won over the disgraceful people to their side.

                        The Bolsheviks had a clearly formulated proposal, their opponents only had vague promises to somehow arrange everything.
                        I have a very complex attitude towards the Bolsheviks, but only towards them, and not towards history as a scientific discipline.
                        Quote: WW2
                        The stability of the state was at an extremely low level.

                        In order for a state to be sustainable, it must be legitimate (in agreement with the people). The bourgeois government turned out to be alien to the people.
                        Quote: WW2
                        In 1913, 5,3% of the world's population lived in the territory of the present Russian Federation (not the entire Republic of Ingushetia). At the collapse of the USSR, 2,4% of the world's population lived.

                        Knowing the size of the world's population at different times, it is easy to calculate that even according to your figures, the population growth was more than 30 million.
                        Quote: WW2
                        Why should the history of the fortress, and the monasteries were fortresses, be projected onto the whole country?

                        This is not about the monastery, but about the fact that even at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the river flowing through the entire central part of Russia was considered by the state to be a defensive line. You blame the Union for saying that it was vital for it to have an external enemy, but I am trying to show you that this is the historical state of Russia from St. Vladimir to this day.
                        Quote: WW2
                        There is no reason (and never) to take any kind of “hard measures” against the population.

                        However, they have been accepted, are being used and will be used everywhere.
                        And the tougher these measures will be, the more terrible the challenge that the citizens of a particular state will face.
                        With this, let me take my leave. Best regards, Timur.
                      2. WW2
                        -2
                        12 January 2019 22: 58
                        Quote: Shepherd
                        The Bolsheviks had a clearly formulated proposal, their opponents only had vague promises to somehow arrange everything.

                        Why, the Russians (Russian volunteer army) also had quite clear and formulated demands.
                        The difference was in the issue of land - the Russians declared that the land would be nationalized. And then (and this is the weak point) it will be divided among those who process it. It is unclear how it will be divided, and on what principles.
                        For the Bolsheviks, everything was simple: as much land and other junk as anyone stole from landowners and priests, so did he. And they promised to give the factories back to the workers.
                        It is clear that later they deceived him. They couldn't help but deceive. But the shaggy people fell for it.
                        Quote: Shepherd
                        In order for a state to be sustainable, it must be legitimate (in agreement with the people).

                        Nothing like this. The Bolsheviks were illegitimate all the way. But for a long time they were quite stable.
                        Quote: Shepherd
                        The bourgeois government turned out to be alien to the people.

                        And this is because the Russian revolutionaries were in a hurry in February-March 1917. The brains of the population are not yet mature enough for bourgeois society, i.e. the prerequisites are not yet fully ripe. The top is ripe, but the bottom is not. Therefore, it was the population itself that supported the Bolsheviks. It was simply bought by them.
                        This could not happen in a mature society. And Germany and Hungary are the clearest examples of this. The local Bolsheviks did not last long there.
                        Quote: Shepherd
                        Knowing the size of the world's population at different times, it is easy to calculate that even according to your figures, the population growth was more than 30 million.

                        Population growth in absolute numbers does not matter. What matters is comparable relative values.
                        And the conclusion is very simple - Russia lost approximately 55% of the population under the Bolshevik communists. Alas.
                        Quote: Shepherd
                        With this, let me take my leave. Best regards, Timur.

                        Same to you.
  52. The comment was deleted.
  53. +5
    11 January 2019 23: 10
    The number of comments is impressive. I suggest that the author of the article study the statements of his colleagues and try to answer the question posed again.
  54. +8
    11 January 2019 23: 39
    A good attempt to explain to the stupid rednecks that the revolution is not good. Let the officials steal and take bribes. The security forces build themselves cottages that cost 1000 times more than their lifetime salary. Their wives and children are all suddenly “brilliant entrepreneurs”, by chance. The only problem for the people is to make ends meet. The main thing is that there would be no revolution. They have settled down very well. Gumilyov with his drive is not right. But Lenin is right, who described the Revolutionary situation. So far we don’t have a single sign. The top people are still able to live according to old. and the lower classes have not yet reached the point, but we are moving towards this at a good speed. The working class is declining and is being replaced by office plankton and lumpen. There is no revolutionary party. There are pseudo-communists who are well established in the Duma and local bodies and do not want to change anything. They are their own problems. They decided. And their salaries and pensions are good. But their greed, arrogance and stupidity will lead either to revolution or to the liquidation of Russia as a state. Something else will happen in this place.
    1. -5
      12 January 2019 01: 01
      Judging by your stream of thoughts, not everyone was able to explain it.
      You talk about Gumilyov, claim that Lenin is right, and at the same time you spell the word passionarity with errors?
      Have you read Lenin at all?
    2. WW2
      -5
      12 January 2019 01: 43
      Quote: vel1163
      The working class is shrinking

      There is no working class. This is an invention of the visionary Marx.
      Quote: vel1163
      There is no revolutionary party.

      In principle, there are no revolutionary parties. They have never existed, are not and will never be in any country in the world.
      This is also fiction, nonsense.
      At the same time, the RSDLP also had nothing to do with the Russian Revolution (February-March 1917). And the Bolsheviks are not revolutionaries at all.
      1. +7
        12 January 2019 09: 31
        Quote: WW2
        Quote: vel1163
        The working class is shrinking

        There is no working class. This is an invention of the visionary Marx.
        Quote: vel1163
        There is no revolutionary party.

        In principle, there are no revolutionary parties. They have never existed, are not and will never be in any country in the world.
        This is also fiction, nonsense.
        At the same time, the RSDLP also had nothing to do with the Russian Revolution (February-March 1917). And the Bolsheviks are not revolutionaries at all.

        What class do you belong to? Who do you work for? For yourself or for someone else?
        1. WW2
          -6
          12 January 2019 09: 44
          Quote: free
          What class do you belong to? Who do you work for? For yourself or for someone else?

          Towards average (at least I really hope so). Have you heard of this?
          And forget Marx's class theory. This is nonsense. And bankrupt nonsense (time-tested).
          1. +6
            12 January 2019 10: 14
            Quote: WW2
            Quote: free
            What class do you belong to? Who do you work for? For yourself or for someone else?

            Towards average (at least I really hope so). Have you heard of this?
            And forget Marx's class theory. This is nonsense. And bankrupt nonsense (time-tested).

            Once again, are you working for yourself or for your uncle?
            1. WW2
              -6
              12 January 2019 10: 19
              Quote: free
              Do you work for yourself or for your uncle?

              A person, if he is free and works voluntarily, always works for himself.
              1. +6
                12 January 2019 10: 20
                Quote: WW2
                Quote: free
                Do you work for yourself or for your uncle?

                A person, if he is free and works voluntarily, always works for himself.

                Stupid or what?
                1. WW2
                  -3
                  12 January 2019 20: 06
                  Quote: free
                  Stupid or what?

                  Yes, seeing your inadequate reaction to obvious things, I thought so.
                  You somehow got lost in a cave. The 21st century is upon us. People fly into space. And yet you, in the depths of centuries, hand in hand with the fool Marx, are figuring out what doesn’t exist.
                  Hello, garage. He deceived you. Try to understand this somehow.
                  1. +3
                    12 January 2019 20: 54
                    Quote: WW2
                    Quote: free
                    Stupid or what?

                    Yes, seeing your inadequate reaction to obvious things, I thought so.
                    You somehow got lost in a cave. The 21st century is upon us. People fly into space. And yet you, in the depths of centuries, hand in hand with the fool Marx, are figuring out what doesn’t exist.
                    Hello, garage. He deceived you. Try to understand this somehow.

                    You look like a fool here! You don’t even know the difference between working for yourself and for yourself. You are so short-sighted that you don’t notice obvious things. So much the worse for you.
  55. +7
    11 January 2019 23: 56
    Who is Gumilyov? The author, through the Russophobic prism of Gumelev, is trying to show us narrow-minded people that a social state is not possible.
    1. -6
      12 January 2019 01: 03
      Are you intentionally writing this so illiterately in Russian in order to emphasize your rejection of the superiority of others over you?
  56. +2
    12 January 2019 00: 24
    I want a fair, social state. But not in the state-legal form of the Union. It’s better to have Russia within the borders of the Union. It is a great pity that Stalin did not insist on his “autonomization” plan in 1922. And he himself is also good, having reduced the territory of the RSFSR in 1924, 1926, 1936.
    The existence of the RSFSR within the borders of the Russian Empire would be a better option than a “union of equal republics with the right to secede.”
    And one more lesson. We must understand that someday declarations will be implemented. The Bolsheviks put forward the slogan of the right to secession, sincerely believing that no one would ever put it into practice in the future. However, we miscalculated...
    1. WW2
      -5
      12 January 2019 01: 37
      Quote: Sergej1972
      It is a great pity that Stalin did not insist on his “autonomization” plan in 1922.

      And in those days, who was he that he had the right to insist on something?
  57. +2
    12 January 2019 01: 19
    Quote: Mestny
    And we got raw tables, dried mustard and salt on a plate with traces of wet fingers.
    well does not work.

    How many times I was in different canteens under the USSR, I have never seen anything like this. I have very vivid memories: how you eat there for seventy kopecks, with half a glass of sour cream obligatory in the natural diet, so you want to go to work. People were afraid of lunches in canteens under the Union.
    1. WW2
      -9
      12 January 2019 01: 35
      Quote: Junior Private
      I have very vivid memories: how you can eat for seventy kopecks there, with half a glass of sour cream required in the natural diet

      70 kopecks is decent money in these days. Now a business lunch costs about the same. But after it the stomach does not hurt.
      Quote: Junior Private
      People were afraid of lunches in canteens under the Union.

      Yes, my stomach hurt like crazy afterwards. They probably cooked there with machine oil. I had to carry small containers from home a couple of times a week (or even the whole week), otherwise my stomach would be in complete turmoil.
  58. -1
    12 January 2019 01: 25
    Quote: Commihunter
    I remember what lines there were at the first McDonald's :)

    Hmmm. At such prices (I was at the opening of the first McDonald's), one would think that there was a line of secret millionaires.
  59. +7
    12 January 2019 01: 30
    When the USSR was created, all the republics that were part of it were equally poor.
    At the moment, there is a clear imbalance in both directions in the incomes of the former republics, so no one will want to restore the economy of their neighbor, because the neighbor has already turned his back and can do it again.
    Let’s say a miracle happened and Ukraine decided to join Russia, then we need to pump money into its economy again, while our beloved oligarch Deripaska, and he’s not the only one, is on subsidies and cannot replace the equipment in Norilsk with modern ones, so as not to finish off the environment and not to persecute the people, whose growth is not even with the help of emigrants from former villages?
    Are you ready to tighten the belt around your spine?
    1. -2
      12 January 2019 12: 08
      It’s the same thing - no one will annex or restore anything; they themselves have a lot of problems.
  60. +2
    12 January 2019 02: 39
    Why is it fundamentally impossible to build the USSR-2?

    Why is it fundamentally necessary to build USSR-2.0?
    Throughout its history, humanity has been forced to respond to the most pressing challenges that nature, and it (humanity) itself, poses to it.
    Hunger, cold, disease - forced him to cultivate grain, raise livestock, build houses, look for ways to treat diseases - all this contributed to the development of science, technology, industry, etc.
    Humanity (at least) has learned to cope with these challenges.
    But humanity itself preferred to resolve its internal conflicts through war.
    It is one thing to fight with spears and arrows, and quite another - with the help of atomic weapons, which appeared as a result of scientific and technological progress, the same one that helped cope with hunger, cold and disease.
    With the advent of atomic weapons, humanity is capable of self-destruction. This is a new challenge of the times.
    There are two ways to solve it. The first is to stop scientific and technological progress, which is essentially no longer possible.
    And the second is to try to raise a new person, a truly humane person, capable of resolving emerging conflicts without aggression. Some measures are being taken: institutions (the UN, for example), laws, legal acts are being created, but they just turn out to be ineffective. It all comes down to the human factor.
    It is necessary to change a person's upbringing. And only the communist PROJECT, which was embodied in the form of the USSR, set such a goal.
    There are few chances, but even this little chance can be taken advantage of - otherwise there will be a nuclear war.
    The modern challenge facing humanity is no longer hunger and cold, but nuclear war.
    Russia, thanks to new weapons and the humane position of the Russian leadership, has so far managed to slightly push back the nuclear conflict. But this is for now - without a global reformatting of the world, it will not be possible to avoid a nuclear conflict.
    Russia has experience in the construction of this project (including unsuccessful ones), and 2.0 seems to have a desire to take these mistakes into account.
    Once again, the chances are slim, but it’s better than just waiting for a nuclear conflict.
    1. 0
      12 January 2019 12: 25
      There have been arguments lately that the USSR is still alive.
      Compare with whom? With a sleeping lion? WITH a dormant volcano? Some incomprehensible movement is taking place inside the sleeping volcano, something is changing, some processes are taking place....the temperature is rising.....
  61. 0
    12 January 2019 02: 51
    Now they are playing Russia! And it's a matter of time. According to Chase. The first is 80 years old, the second is already underway, and the 3rd is a global blow. For analysts, link the miner game to the deforestation map and you will get goals. Privilege goals.
  62. +2
    12 January 2019 09: 27
    Another unproven set of cliches. Nonsense sucked out of thin air.
    1. -4
      12 January 2019 12: 10
      Your belief in the restoration of the USSR is nonsense, the train for this left a long time ago, 30 years ago.
      1. -1
        12 January 2019 18: 30
        At the moment, only Belarus will be able to be annexed.
        1. -2
          12 January 2019 19: 15
          Even Great Russians would shy away from USSR-2 - what kind of annexation of Belarus is there?
      2. +1
        12 January 2019 18: 38
        Quote: Vadim237
        Your belief in the restoration of the USSR is nonsense, the train for this left a long time ago, 30 years ago.

        Aha-ha funny! You're lying bourgeoisie, this train is just arriving at the Rossiya station.
        1. -3
          13 January 2019 12: 58
          This station and this train do not exist - they are only in your fantasies.
          1. +2
            13 January 2019 14: 30
            Quote: Vadim237
            This station and this train do not exist - they are only in your fantasies.

            Blessed is he who believes!
  63. +4
    12 January 2019 14: 47
    Quote: Mestny
    Yes you already built once.
    Enough, give it to others.

    Others are you, and those whom you protect? In this case, I feel sorry for our country! And to advise me to leave the country - rather, those who sent their children abroad, who have real estate on all continents, probably excluding Antarctica, those who use our country to enrich themselves, to provide themselves and their offspring with a comfortable (chic) ​​should leave it. ) existence beyond its limits! Therefore, you will advise...at home, you know who! sad
  64. +1
    12 January 2019 14: 52
    Quote: Sergej1972
    To be fair, right after Gorbachev came to power, and before the "catastrophe" began, that is, somewhere in the period 1985-1988, the bureaucracy, the police, etc. began to treat the needs of people with great attention. Now this has been thoroughly forgotten, but in reality it was in 1985-1988, and it was started back in 1989. a spirit of optimism reigned in the society.

    I just don’t need to tell you who, where, and how they treated whom - due to my profession, I had the opportunity to see the processes taking place in these structures! sad
  65. -2
    12 January 2019 19: 10
    Any system always strives to preserve its natural state. The Russian pendulum will come into balance, and not a trace will remain of the madness of the last century and the strangeness of our days.
    1. +1
      13 January 2019 12: 24
      and will hang motionless......, permanent happiness of peace and impotence
  66. +6
    12 January 2019 23: 46
    "Why is it fundamentally impossible to build the USSR-2?"
    It is still unclear what the fundamental obstacle to the construction of the USSR-2 is. The fact that a certain Kamenev does not know the way to build the USSR-2 is not yet a fundamental obstacle.
    It seems that the maxim “A talented person is talented in everything” is also true for those who are not talented. Whatever the author’s analytics, such is his journalism.
    1. +2
      13 January 2019 12: 21
      the only comment on the matter..., well said
    2. +4
      13 January 2019 23: 40
      Quote: Decimam
      It is still unclear what the fundamental obstacle to the construction of the USSR-2 is.

      I believe that the only obstacle to building the USSR-2 is the lack of a leader with a team and minimally sufficient funding.
      I think that to create such a team it would be enough to announce a fundraiser for the construction of an alternative to the Yeltsin center, the Stalin center, by some party or initiative group. If they survive and build, they will become a real political force. And instead of a revolutionary struggle, it is enough to introduce criminal liability for failure to fulfill election promises, and make patriotism the ideology, but with execution powers.
  67. +2
    13 January 2019 13: 50
    From the series: “It would be nice to fly to Mars...”
  68. +4
    13 January 2019 14: 24
    The very abbreviation of “USSR 2” already contains the answer - this is not the old USSR, but something new, reworked, so the conclusions of the article are strange, to put it mildly
  69. The comment was deleted.
  70. -3
    13 January 2019 15: 34
    hi I take my hat off to the work and erudition of Viktor Kamenev! I regret that I rarely visited the “Opinions” section and missed 2 previous articles. For the sake of such work, it would be good for the administration to create a “Discussions” section with special moderation (maybe a control panel), allowing you to delete/hide not only swearing and heavy trolling, but also all flooding, including enthusiastic or angry, but meaningless remarks and repetitions.
  71. 0
    13 January 2019 16: 37
    The author is right... USSR-2 cannot be built..., no one wants to build it in principle, to talk about it - yes..., but to build it - excuse me...
  72. +4
    14 January 2019 01: 41
    Quote: Nasr
    But, Lenin nobly destroyed the state of RI - this is - Yes!

    How did Lenin “significantly destroy” the Russian Empire when its main figure, the Russian Emperor, had long been gone? And who forced Nicholas 2 to abdicate the throne and, in fact, destroyed the empire? Moreover, the incompetent power of the bourgeois government of Kerensky led the country to collapse.
  73. +1
    14 January 2019 04: 51
    There is a signified and there is a signifier, as structuralists argue. And often the difference between them is not realized.
    Howls here too. The author stated the reasoning about the impossibility USSR 2.0, i.e. about a new union of peoples led by Russia (and this process is underway - see the EAEU), but in fact he writes about the possibility/impossibility RSFSR 2.0, i.e. neo-Soviet Russia. And why it is impossible remains a mystery. If only because... no one tried. Everyone is saying: USSR, USSR... Someone would say: “let's restore the RSFSR!” - and they would see what would happen...
    1. -3
      15 January 2019 20: 50
      "USSR 2.0" is a fetish. Several letters with completely incomprehensible content.
  74. 0
    14 January 2019 08: 10
    Quote: ROSS 42
    Why should beggars pay for the lust and debauchery of the capital?

    Yes, because revolutions take place in capitals! imagine if there was a famine in the capital in the 30s
  75. +2
    14 January 2019 15: 11
    Funny article. The level of argumentation and evidence does not stand up to criticism. Somehow you need to write more carefully. Maybe an eighth grader will understand this text, but an adult will not. The author writes, “What does our social science say about this? The historical circumstances of the emergence of the USSR are unique and inimitable, therefore it is impossible to reproduce the USSR with any index: life itself has changed a lot since then.” To begin with, it should be noted that social science consists of a number of sciences the first includes those sciences that give general ideas about society itself, the laws of its development, main components, etc. (sociology, philosophy); the second covers those disciplines that study one aspect of society (economics, political science, cultural studies, ethics, etc.); The third group includes sciences that permeate all areas of social life (history, jurisprudence). Therefore, it is not clear which science makes such a conclusion and what to call the person who made such a conclusion. The very meaning of the conclusion is devoid of historical confirmation. Based on this logic, I have the right to assert that the historical circumstances of the emergence of the USSR are unique and inimitable, therefore it is impossible to reproduce capitalism with any index: life itself has changed a lot since then. However, capitalism was restored despite the fact that life in the USSR had changed dramatically since the 1917 revolution. Therefore, the phrase-life has changed to the social sciences, as the argumentation of social changes has no relation. Science operates with a different terminology. Further, the author writes about revolutions, without generally understanding the reasons for the emergence of revolutions and their specific results. “However, theoretical hopes for a revolutionary way of solving the problems of society are seriously undermined by the history of real revolutions, starting with the Great French and ending with the Great October Revolution in Russia.” According to the author, the French Revolution was not solved the problem of replacing the feudal mode of production in France with the capitalist one. In fact, it was the revolution that resolved the issue of the power of the feudal lords and gave freedom to capitalist production. I don’t write about Lev Gumelev in the context of the topic at all; there is no point in writing about hypotheses with anything other than the opinion of Gumilyov himself, but
  76. +1
    16 January 2019 13: 41
    The person who wrote the article does not know the word “Dialectics,” and trying to analyze something in society from the standpoint of formal logic is a method A doomed to failure.
    Take a good dialectics textbook and read it...

    As for class contradictions, they cannot escape anywhere in a class society. The class struggle may be subdued, as we have now, but it will still manifest itself.

    Recently, for the first time in history, a socialist country came out on top in industrial production. The USSR did not cope in its time.
    Ultimately, in one form or another, communism/socialism will replace capitalism on a global scale, as a more perfect system. There can be no doubt about it.
    But no one can promise that by this bright moment Russians as a people and Russia as a state will still exist.
  77. +2
    17 January 2019 09: 00
    A lot has been written. But the authors convinced me otherwise.
  78. -1
    17 January 2019 09: 32
    There will never be a USSR 2. No one needs him now.
  79. 0
    22 January 2019 09: 05
    USSR 2 has been around for a long time!!!
    This is the EU!!!
    Therefore, we need to think about the USSR 3!!!!!!