Military Review

Why is it fundamentally impossible to build the USSR-2?

733
This question arose when discussing the article "USSR-2 Kurginyan and the main issue of the revolution". Experts do not consider it for the same reason that the projects of "perpetual motion" are not considered: these are questions of the same order. Enthusiasts offer many cleverly designed structures of perpetual motion machines, they ardently defend their projects, but they are not considered: they all will not work a priori. Therefore, it makes no sense to consider plans for building the USSR-2. But we are not from scientific experts, so we will give some thoughts on this.




What does our social science say about this? Historical the circumstances of the emergence of the USSR are unique and inimitable, therefore it is impossible to reproduce the USSR with any index: life itself has changed a lot since then. Further, the merits of the USSR, of which we are moaning, were supplemented by its shortcomings, one without the other is impossible: what to do with it? The party bureaucracy, the dictatorship of the first secretaries of the regional committees led by the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Secretary General, and from below the comradely courts, the administrative system, too, would have to be revived. This is where the construction of the “perpetual motion machine” begins, which should provide us with advantages and remove Soviet flaws, but at the same time new unforeseen undesirable consequences associated with new forms of life, for example, with the Internet, will appear. Which, to predict is fundamentally impossible.

On the other hand, we are already reviving the USSR today when we use its historical experience, watch Soviet films, sing songs, read books, rely on its achievements and authority, and thus really revive some better forms of the USSR in today's life. Incidentally, this is what Western analysts and public figures mean when they talk about authoritarian (incorrigible undemocratic) Russia.

But this is not enough for our radical left fighters for freedom and justice, like the pro-Western liberal party: some again want to "demolish the system", others want real Western colonial "democracy", and all together want "Russia without Putin", this slogan strangely unites them . They know it and flaunt it: it won't be worse. It will be much worse, and first of all these political adventurers.

In general, these slogans are from the beginning of the twentieth century, when the word “communism” in Russia was as fashionable as “democracy” today, and all revolutionaries declared a cardinal and humane reorganization of society. It was believed that for this it was enough to solve by means of revolution only the question of power, so that the progressive forces themselves become the new revolutionary power, and then with the help of the power - this magic wand - they can realize the humane social concept suffered by the great progressive minds of humanity. Then - the Marxist communist, today - a certain USSR-2, and the liberals - finally make Russia a western colony, as Ukraine did. Again, the only way to solve all the problems our “humanists” see is mastering by any means the supreme power in the country, even a coup, therefore, by the way, they justify the Euromaidan and the Bandera regime in Ukraine.

However, the theoretical hopes of a revolutionary way of solving society’s problems are seriously undermined by the history of real revolutions, beginning with the Great French Revolution and ending with the Great October Revolution in Russia. For some reason, a revolution necessarily leads to devastation, a civil war, a revolution devouring its children, that is, to the repression of some revolutionaries against others. As a result, the dictatorship of Napoleon was established in France, and Stalin in Russia.

At the end of the twentieth century, the American special services, together with the neo-Trotskyists, made of the former revolutionary theory political technologies on the revolutionary regime change to puppet "democratic" pro-American colonies under the control of the American ambassador, without whose supervision these "democracies" immediately turn into a junta or dictatorship. In fact, they compromised the very idea of ​​revolution.

However, such “revolutions” still retain their heroic aura in a part of the youth, it is still conducted on the promises of rapid cardinal changes for the better. Therefore, over and over again, the color revolutions are successful, even if by the US State Department training manual. On the "democratic revolution", on their "manuals" in Ukraine in 2014, the US spent just 5 billion dollars, according to US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland.

For the one who interprets these revolutionary results, the question arises: why do revolutions never achieve their stated goals? Why can they never change society in accordance with the program statements of its theoretical forerunners and founding fathers?

Biased experts from different political parties, as a rule, explain everything, though in different ways, with the tragic mistakes of the new revolutionary government, its leaders and local actors, and the resistance of the reactionary satraps of the old regime. They even led out the bitter maxim: romantics and idealists are making a revolution, and quite different, unsympathetic people enjoy the fruits of it, however, they, too, are leaving the revolutionary party!

One of those who are not satisfied with such answers was the historian Lev Nikolaevich Gumilyov, the author of the theory of passionarity. He knew the nature of the revolutionaries well: after all, revolutionaries are doing just passionaries! .. Lev Gumilyov himself suffered greatly from the 1917 revolution of the year: his father, a famous poet and officer Nikolai Gumilyov, the Bolsheviks shot, his mother, the poet Anna Akhmatova, was persecuted by revolutionary power, He himself spent the Soviet camps first 10 years "for dad", then another 10 years "for mom", and during a break he volunteered for the Red Army to fight the Nazis. Because Lev Gumilyov already then understood what the secret of the revolution is, that it is objective and does not depend on the personality of the revolutionaries, as well as on the reactionaries opposing them.

Therefore, with the beginning of perestroika in the USSR, a dissident and a democrat Lev Gumilev did not, on the contrary, he began to support the falling Soviet power. To the question of a certain “democratic pen” he answered: “What kind of a democrat am I? I have a profession! ”As a historian, Lev Gumilyov knew that the red wheel of the revolution that swept across Russia in the twentieth century, including his family, according to him, was historically objective. He saw similar revolutions in the history of a great many, long before the Great French, and they always came to the same bitter outcome.

The historian Lev Gumilyov drew attention to the scientific works of the Austrian biologist Ludwig Bertalanffy, his book "The General Theory of Systems". In his work "The Ethnogenesis and Biosphere of the Earth Gumilev refers to Bertalanffy:" The system is a complex of elements that are in interaction. " That is, the primary elements of information are not separate facts, but links between facts. ” The Belgian Russian-born physicist Ilya Prigogine draws the same conclusions. The properties and characteristics of the system determine the connections that are established between the elements of this system. If you break these bonds, living and inanimate matter as a system irrevocably dies, loses all its characteristics.

The historian Lev Gumilyov made for himself the discovery that the law of Bertalanffy-Prigogine’s system is also true for historical groups: society, public education makes the connections established in it. If you break ties in society, it will perish irretrievably, as living and inanimate matter dies. Moreover, most elements of the old world: people, palaces and fortresses, enterprises and various public institutions, the army and navy will remain, but they will begin to live a completely different life. Other ties will be established between them, if, of course, they survive physically, which is far from a fact.

The links established between the elements of society are expressed by the people who support these links. Actually, these people, formed into a certain elite, are the power in this society. How well they cope with their function, how well they succeed - another question.

The revolution, destroying the old power, its specific carriers, breaks precisely the ties between the elements of society, and this is all that it is capable of. This is enough to destroy the old social system, the “old world,” although most of its elements are alive and well. People who survived the revolution begin to live differently, but not always as the revolutionary romantics dream.

To become a real power, victorious revolutionaries need to establish links between the atomized elements of society. Moreover, such that public institutions simply function, otherwise people who survived the revolution, including the revolutionaries themselves, will simply die of hunger. Immediately after the revolutionary breakthrough, the new government wants, of course, to establish its own relations between all public institutions and people taken from the party program. In Russia, after 1917, this resulted in the policy of “war communism”, and very quickly the new government was threatened not even with counter-revolution, but simply with famine, and Lenin, in defiance of the party, introduces the NEP into his economy: he returns old private property relations to the economy and society. Many ideological communists then shot ...

From the law of Bertalanffy - Prigogine - Gumilev it follows that revolutionaries will never succeed in establishing their own programmatic links in the society they atomized. Despite its dictatorship. In practice, revolutionary programs are divorced from life and impracticable, as they thought. There remains more rhetoric from them. All the elements of society are “old”, from the “old world”, and the reorganization schemes are all theoretical and terribly far from the “old” elements of society, from real life. The “old” elements of society with all their desire cannot live “in a new way,” and even the dictatorship cannot do anything about it.

As a result, although under the pressure of revolutionaries, with the participation of old specialists in the society, some kind of compromise ties are established, very far from revolutionary schemes, in order not to perish everyone from hunger and external threats. The threat of total death in the face of the ineffectiveness of revolutionary programs makes it hard to look for these compromises. It is necessary for an atomized revolution to establish in the shortest possible time new connections instead of broken ones, including revolutionaries, who also want to eat every day.

The post-revolutionary struggle for the survival of society as a system is unfolding; in the process of finding solutions to current pressing problems, system communications are restored. This is where the struggle of the realist revolutionary with the romantic idealists begins. In post-revolutionary Russia, this was expressed in the struggle of the elite groups of Stalin and Trotsky.

Atomized by the revolution, the society under the control of a part of the revolutionaries begins, by trial and error, to establish new working links between its elements, the only criterion is that they work. Therefore, a huge number of old working ties are being restored, although they have been changed, and a certain number of new relationships are introduced that do not interfere with life. In fact, a post-revolutionary society begins to be built "from scratch", and it is precisely the revolution that throws it into this "zero"! Hence the inevitable companions of the revolution are civil war and devastation.

Revolutionary idealists are depressed from all this: their ideals have been turned away. They leave power, from the new emerging elite of society, and if they resist, they are destroyed by the new established power, so the revolution devours its children. In the Russian revolution of 1917, this is called collectively "the repression of 1937 of the year."

Lev Gumilev understood all this as a historian, so he forgave the Bolsheviks and did not accept perestroika democracy. He simply knew that the connections in the social system - her power, the elite, form the requirements of her survival as a system according to Bertalanffy-Prigogine, and not communist or democratic dogmas. Therefore, any revolution does not achieve its stated goals, therefore neither the USSR-2, nor "democracy" is possible, and if Russia survives a new revolutionary break and reflects the external threat of the US and NATO, Russia will be born some kind of fundamentally unpredictable today. If, of course, survives, that is not a fact.
Author:
Photos used:
Victoria Borodinova
733 comments
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  1. Altona
    Altona 11 January 2019 15: 07
    +70
    That's right, it’s impossible to restore the USSR, therefore it is necessary to steal further, consider people to be cattle, and so that no one thinks of writing such guard articles, calming themselves and society.
    PS Lenin built the state. And what did Gumilev build?
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 11 January 2019 15: 20
      -42
      Quote: Altona

      PS Lenin built the state.

      Wow ... And the Russian Empire did not seem to know statehood ... wassat
      True, Lenin reduced this empire a little territorially ... maybe this is his building ...
      1. Altona
        Altona 11 January 2019 15: 22
        +33
        Quote: Nasr
        But the Russian Empire did not seem to know statehood ...

        ------------------------
        Wow. Was the Russian Empire an ideal state?
        1. Nasrat
          Nasrat 11 January 2019 15: 27
          -32
          Wow ... But what was Lenin built ideal? And what did Lenin actually build? More precisely, Trotsky, because Lenin at the time of construction was already a vegetable ..
          But, Lenin nobly destroyed the state of RI - this is - Yes!
          1. Meshcheryak
            Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 15: 49
            +48
            Quote: Nasr
            And what did Lenin actually build? More precisely Trotsky

            Well, Trotsky certainly did the work, and he did not build the genocide of the Cossacks, the Russian people and a little new Khazars!) But Stalin corrected the situation. As for the Republic of Ingushetia, thank you to the bourgeoisie here, they ruined it, the Bolsheviks only took hold of the sneezed power, and with the bourgeois we would have become today's raw material colony 100 years ago.
            1. Nasrat
              Nasrat 11 January 2019 15: 52
              -19
              So what did Lenin build?
              1. Meshcheryak
                Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 16: 02
                +34
                Quote: Nasr
                So what did Lenin build?

                My personal opinion is that the greatest merit of Lenin was that he was able to build a cohesive revolutionary force and was able to coordinate everything clearly, today there are no such talents yet ...
                1. Nasrat
                  Nasrat 11 January 2019 18: 30
                  -22
                  Quote: Meshcheryak
                  Quote: Nasr
                  So what did Lenin build?

                  My personal opinion is that the greatest merit of Lenin was that he was able to build a cohesive revolutionary force and was able to coordinate everything clearly, today there are no such talents yet ...

                  Lenin built the state of Finland ... nothing more. I spent some time abroad ... Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev rallied the revolutionary force ... It was Trotsky who was one of the organizers of the October Revolution of 1917, one of the founders of the Red Army. One of the founders and ideologists of the Comintern, a member of its Executive Committee. In the first Soviet government - the people's commissar for foreign affairs, then in 1918-1925 - the people's commissar for military and naval affairs and the chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council of the RSFSR, then the USSR. Since 1923 - the leader of the inner-party left opposition ("New Deal"). Member of the Politburo of the CPSU (b) in 1919-1926 ... And where is Lenin here, as a rallying point?
                  1. Meshcheryak
                    Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 22: 12
                    +10
                    Quote: Nasr
                    It was Trotsky who was one of the organizers of the October Revolution of 1917, one of the founders of the Red Army. One of the founders and ideologists of the Comintern, a member of its Executive Committee. In the first Soviet government - the people's commissar for foreign affairs, then in 1918-1925 - the people's commissar for military and naval affairs and the chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council of the RSFSR, then the USSR. Since 1923 - the leader of the inner-party left opposition ("New Deal"). Member of the Politburo of the CPSU (B.) In 1919-1926 ...

                    My dear, you scare me) It seems that you sympathize with Trotsky))) But you yourself write that "one of", do not write that "main"))) I will only express my attitude towards him (please note that I far from being an anti-Semite): in our history it is difficult to find a more Russophobic figure, he is cursed according to his merits, within the framework of the post I do not even dare to list them. I regret that Koba let him go ... Yes, by the way, if you are a Trotskyist, then the neocons are your friends) they consider themselves to be the successors of Trotsky's cause, there is a lot of fun here)
                  2. aybolyt678
                    aybolyt678 12 January 2019 22: 50
                    +1
                    Quote: Nasr
                    And where is Lenin here, as a unifier?

                    Earth to the peasants! Factories to the workers! The decree of the Earth, the NEP .... ah, yay-yay, and its ingenious term is the expropriation of the expropriated ??? It was scientific !!! in the spirit of the times !!
              2. Dude
                Dude 11 January 2019 16: 11
                +39
                Quote: Nasr
                So what did Lenin build?

                A fundamentally different state, with the first in the world
                1. Tatyana
                  Tatyana 11 January 2019 18: 06
                  +14
                  The article is interesting, but it smelled very methodologically of eclecticism and sophistry of the scientifically untenable concept of "Dead Water" of some anonymous "Internal predictor of the USSR".

                  In other glories. The author's article smelled of the same eclecticism and sophistry of the ideology of "Dead Water" in 1992, the first edition, put by the same anonymous "Internal predictor of the USSR / Russia" in the so-called. "The concept of public security of Russia" (COB of Russia), which the "dead leaders" and their apologists from the late 1980s aspired and are striving to make a STATE ideology in the USSR / RF, acting at the same time as a kind of "Egyptian" priests in imposing their own the so-called system "truly new thinking" allegedly as a historically new social consciousness.
                  1. Dude
                    Dude 11 January 2019 18: 19
                    +27
                    The article is interesting, but it smelled very methodologically of the eclectic and sophistic scientifically untenable concept of "Dead Water" of some anonymous "Internal predictor of the USSR".
                    I don’t know what you found particularly interesting in the article, to be honest.
                    I saw the whining on the topic "you don't need to rock the boat", "the construction (and existence itself) in the World of a welfare state is impossible", "only were not war," passing dubious theories as unapplicable truths.
                    Mixed in a bunch of horses and people. From the comments of colleagues in the forum, who even favorably perceived the article, it is clear that the argumentation in it is confused and insufficient. In addition, the article is loose in shape and very biased.
                    Sincerely. hi
                    1. Tatyana
                      Tatyana 11 January 2019 18: 45
                      +7
                      Quote: Dude
                      I don’t know what you found particularly interesting in the article,

                      I wrote that
                      it smelled very methodologically <,,,> from the author's article of the same eclecticism and sophistry ideology of "Dead Water" in 1992, the first edition of some anonymous "Internal predictor of the USSR" the same anonymous "Internal predictor of the USSR / Russia" in the so-called "The Concept of Public Security of Russia" (COB of Russia), which the "dead leaders" and their apologists from the late 1980s aspired and are striving to make the STATE ideology in the USSR / RF, acting at the same time as a kind of "Egyptian" priests in the imposition of their own system of the so-called. "truly new thinking" supposedly as a historically new social consciousness.
                      1. Dude
                        Dude 11 January 2019 19: 13
                        +8
                        . I wrote that
                        I’m sorry, I didn’t catch it right away! wink drinks
                    2. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 12 January 2019 22: 54
                      +3
                      Quote: Dude
                      Mixed in a bunch of horses and people.

                      in the heap with horses and people was a failed scientist who, with his theory of passionarity, explains a lot, as it were, but does not build or predict anything. Gumilyov’s theory is scientific but not scientific.
                    3. MrK
                      MrK 16 January 2019 11: 53
                      +4
                      I agree. Moreover. Hence the inevitable companions of the revolution are civil war and devastation.))
                      There would have been no Civil War in Russia since 1918 if it had not been for the rebellion of the Whites and the intervention
                2. Nasrat
                  Nasrat 11 January 2019 18: 35
                  -20
                  Quote: Dude
                  Quote: Nasr
                  So what did Lenin build?

                  A fundamentally different state, with the first in the world

                  Are you about Finland? After all, only Lenin owes Finland its statehood ...
                  1. Dude
                    Dude 11 January 2019 21: 34
                    +15
                    No, colleague, I'm talking about another state. You can not click, because everyone understands that I didn’t mean Suomi, but Soviet Russia. laughing hi
                    You are joking, well, I, too, in the style of Master Yoda answered you.
                  2. Meshcheryak
                    Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 22: 24
                    +14
                    Quote: Nasr

                    Quote: Dude
                    Quote: Nasr
                    So what did Lenin build?

                    A fundamentally different state, with the first in the world

                    Are you about Finland? After all, only Lenin owes Finland its statehood ...

                    And the bourgeoisie with the interim government could keep Finland?) Lenin did not start the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia, he had already collected what had collapsed, gathered almost everything!
                  3. Sergej1972
                    Sergej1972 11 January 2019 22: 27
                    +9
                    As if in the Russian Empire, Finland had statehood, but not sovereign.
                3. Pax tecum
                  Pax tecum 11 January 2019 20: 24
                  +5

                  NasRat:
                  Wow ... And the Russian Empire did not seem to know statehood ...

                  At the end of its existence, the Russian Empire "gave birth" to three revolutions (1905-07, February and October 1917) and, as a consequence, the Civil War.
                  The essence of the article is somewhat different ...
                  1. Mestny
                    Mestny 11 January 2019 22: 11
                    -13
                    And what did the USSR "give birth to" at its sunset?
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2019 23: 07
                      +2
                      yes a lot of things, the question is what are you talking about
                      1. Mestny
                        Mestny 12 January 2019 01: 04
                        -8
                        I am about the 1991 criminal revolution.
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 08: 14
                        +4
                        Quote: Mestny
                        I am about the 1991 criminal revolution.

                        Well, it’s not the USSR that gave birth
                      3. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 09: 45
                        -9
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Well, it’s not the USSR that gave birth

                        Well, you give!
                        Then who?!
                4. sniperino
                  sniperino 13 January 2019 20: 17
                  -2
                  Quote: Dude
                  Quote: Nasr
                  So what did Lenin build?

                  A fundamentally different state, with the first in the world
                  If the NEP remained "seriously and for a long time", the USSR would have won the war, and would have lived to see the war - the question is. Rather, it would be "90s +", no?
          2. igorbrsv
            igorbrsv 11 January 2019 16: 14
            +13
            what Lenin built

            Lenin did not have time to build anything. He died. But the direction that he took in my spirit is close. Built by his followers and associates. It can be said that with their passing away, construction stopped
            1. Crane
              Crane 12 January 2019 22: 05
              -5
              Lenin did not have time to build anything. He died. But the direction that he took in my spirit is close. Built by his followers and associates.
              ===============
              Only colleagues then leaned against the wall ....
            2. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 12 January 2019 23: 40
              +5
              Quote: igorbrsv
              Lenin did not have time to build anything. He died. But the direction that he took in my spirit is close. Built by his followers and associates. It can be said that with their passing away, construction stopped

              can i try to answer? - put aside the romance of humanism in the politics of that time. Recall that 70% of the population went barefoot and plowed horses. If you have 6 acres, imagine that you need to handle 20 with a horse and hands. And feeds from this and get dressed! The horse is not yours but the neighbor, pay for it. Pay the land rent, pay a loan last year! Besides the fact that a return to the bourgeois order brought problems back to this mass of people, we must not forget that a whole generation grew up in wars. And used to solve their problems at the cost of the life of the enemy. Go and try to deviate from the course of Lenin!
              about followers and associates - the bulk of revolutionaries are experts in overthrowing the state system! these are not engineers with scientists, but provocateurs and swindlers for whom the revolution is a social lift, but comrade Mauser with the name of revolution is a way and way of a beautiful life. Stalin is unique in that he was able to put this vinigret in relative order. Remember "calm down!" in a note to Khrushchev?
          3. Dude
            Dude 11 January 2019 16: 14
            +15
            . But, Lenin nobly destroyed the state of RI - this is - Yes!

            Do not ascribe to the October Revolution (and to Lenin, respectively) what was done by the bourgeois February Revolution.
            1. kjhg
              kjhg 11 January 2019 19: 04
              +13
              Quote: Dude
              Do not ascribe to the October Revolution (and to Lenin, respectively) what was done by the bourgeois February Revolution.

              But did he and others like him study history? They only know propaganda cliches. And only today, when the country is again on the verge of great trials, and, at this time, the elite continues to rob both the state and the people, we clearly feel that they lied to us in 1991 and continue to lie vilely.
              And the story is not black and white.
              1. Dude
                Dude 11 January 2019 19: 19
                +8
                Quote: kjhg
                Quote: Dude
                Do not ascribe to the October Revolution (and to Lenin, respectively) what was done by the bourgeois February Revolution.

                But did he and others like him study history? They only know propaganda cliches. And only today, when the country is again on the verge of great trials, and, at this time, the elite continues to rob both the state and the people, we clearly feel that they lied to us in 1991 and continue to lie vilely.
                And the story is not black and white.

                The thing is that stamps also need to be able to use winked But this is given, as you can see, given "not only to everyone" laughing
                In general, the dominance of grayness is depressing. Moreover, the higher and further, the grayer ...
                But blacks always come for gray (s) ...
                1. Pax tecum
                  Pax tecum 11 January 2019 20: 30
                  +12

                  NasRat:
                  Wow ... But what was Lenin built ideal? And what did Lenin actually build? More precisely, Trotsky, because Lenin at the time of construction was already a vegetable ..
                  But, Lenin nobly destroyed the state of RI - this is - Yes!

                  Let me remind those who forgot, and especially those who did not know, and even forgot ...
                  1. Observer2014
                    Observer2014 11 January 2019 20: 56
                    -12
                    Pax tecum (Alexander)
                    I did not overthrow the king, but liberals ...
                    wassatHa ha ha ha laughing good
                    fool
                    1. Pax tecum
                      Pax tecum 11 January 2019 21: 12
                      +10

                      Observer2014:
                      ... Ha ha ha ha ... laughing good

                      Is knowledge of history really bad?

                      For that fool argue, wise guy!
                      1. Observer2014
                        Observer2014 11 January 2019 21: 19
                        -17
                        Pax tecum (Alexander)
                        Is knowledge of history really bad? fool l argue, wise guy!
                        With a knowledge of history by five! On the Soviet scale .And this fool So it’s not translatable. It's an abscess. fool . Well, in any case, at least I myself read what and how in that figure was painted?
                      2. Dude
                        Dude 11 January 2019 21: 38
                        +3
                        Yes, like you both said the same thing!)))
                        Quote: Observer2014
                        Pax tecum (Alexander)
                        Is knowledge of history really bad? fool l argue, wise guy!
                        With a knowledge of history by five! On the Soviet scale .And this fool So it’s not translatable. It's an abscess. fool . Well, in any case, at least I myself read what and how in that figure was painted?
                  2. Tank hard
                    Tank hard 12 January 2019 00: 50
                    -5
                    Judging by the photo with a log, this is a photoshop of the head of Ulyanov - Lenin on the body of Alexander Zass. I don’t really believe that Lenin could carry a log in this way, but the fact that Zass was carrying a horse is for sure. wink
                    1. Pax tecum
                      Pax tecum 12 January 2019 09: 12
                      +10
                      Well yes. Just a parody of a famous photograph ... to create a working mood, so to speak, and text in the same style.
                      Observer2014 (Sergey (Russia)):
                      With a knowledge of history by five! On the Soviet scale .And this fool So it’s not translatable. It's an abscess. fool . Well, in any case, at least I myself read what and how in that figure was painted?

                      Well, and fellow Observer2014, really disgraced with knowledge of historical facts.
                      Yes, and with discretion and education, also, not at odds.

                      PSPersonal for Observer2014.
                      Rudeness is a negative property of a person’s character, to cross the boundaries of established norms and rules of behavior in society, with the aim of attacking in the form of a verbal attack in order to destroy the other’s inner balance and mental state under impunity, anonymity.
              2. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 13 January 2019 00: 12
                +4
                Quote: kjhg
                at this time, the elite continues to rob both the state and the people, we clearly feel that they lied to us in 1991 and continue to lie vilely.

                The elite is a part of the people that is an example ... The elite serves the people and does not rob. And he’s not lying. What is happening in our country, Lenin once called neocolonialism. And what you call the Elite are just governors.
            2. WW2
              WW2 12 January 2019 09: 52
              -12
              Quote: Dude
              Do not ascribe to the October Revolution (and to Lenin, respectively) what was done by the bourgeois February Revolution.

              Explore the meaning of the term "revolution". And stop writing nonsense like "October Revolution". There was no such historical phenomenon. This is a Bolshevik fiction.
              With the February Revolution is also not easy. Actually, it happened in March 1917. So if we look at the previous period, then the February-March maximum.
              And the "October" reactionary coup, it is also not an October one. And January 1918 with the previous period, the maximum is October-January.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 10: 37
                +5
                Quote: WW2
                Explore the meaning of the term "revolution". And stop writing nonsense like "October Revolution". There was no such historical phenomenon. This is a Bolshevik fiction.

                a social upheaval, mass extra-legal actions aimed at radical changes in the political system itself, and not a simple replacement of one ruling elite with another
                1. WW2
                  WW2 12 January 2019 11: 09
                  -12
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                  a social upheaval, mass extra-legal actions aimed at radical changes in the political system itself, and not a simple replacement of one ruling elite with another

                  The most important thing was forgotten to write, "a cardinal change with" MOVEMENT of public relations UP. "That is, their development.
                  And there is also a change in the political system with "MOVEMENT of public relations DOWN" (ie, their degradation). This is not called a revolution, but a reactionary coup.
                  Such reactionary coups in particular occurred in Russia in October 1917 - January 1918. And in the USSR in the late 20s.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 11: 25
                    +6
                    Quote: WW2
                    And there is also a change in the political system with "MOVEMENT of public relations DOWN" (ie, their degradation). This is not called a revolution, but a reactionary coup.

                    kindly full definition
                    1. WW2
                      WW2 12 January 2019 12: 11
                      -8
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      kindly full definition

                      Why do you need it?
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 13: 10
                        +2
                        Quote: WW2
                        Why do you need it?

                        then, that you declare that the October revolution is not a revolution, socialism is not socialism, so give the correct definitions so that we can understand why we are not right
                      2. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 13: 20
                        -9
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        that you declare that the October revolution is not a revolution,

                        Of course not. Typical reactionary coup. It was a bourgeois (nascent) society, it became feudal (Soviet). The movement of society one step down is obvious. What can be doubts?
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        socialism is not socialism

                        Of course, "Soviet socialism" had nothing to do with the traditional understanding of the term "socialism".
                        This is ridiculous, "socialism" (traditional), this is a fairly high phase in the development of bourgeois society (far from its first phase). The same "Swedish socialism", for example.
                        And here the society of slaves (slave farming society) in the USSR and supposedly also lives in socialism. This is not even funny. What was common between the life of the Swedes and the life of fellow citizens? Never mind.
                      3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 14: 19
                        +2
                        Quote: WW2
                        The movement of society one step down is obvious. What can be doubts?

                        first give a definition of revolution is not yours but according to the textbook
                        second what is the downward movement?
                        Quote: WW2
                        The same "Swedish socialism", for example.

                        appeared precisely due to the changes that have occurred in our country
                        Quote: WW2
                        And here is the society of slaves (slave society)

                        give a definition of slave society and give a comparison with the USSR
                        By the way, did you live, work in the USSR?
                      4. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 15: 32
                        -3
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        first give a definition of revolution is not yours but according to the textbook

                        Internet to help.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        the second is the downward movement

                        In the degradation of other relations from bourgeois to feudal. Feudal, I recall just in case, they are below the bourgeois. Preceded by the bourgeois.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        appeared precisely due to the changes that have occurred in our country

                        You should know what big saliva the Swedes don't care about "your country".
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Define a slave society

                        Internet to help.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        and give a comparison with the USSR

                        I'm not even going to do this with someone who does not recognize the obvious things.
                      5. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 15: 37
                        +2
                        Quote: WW2
                        Internet to help.

                        that is, you are simply an ordinary balabol who doesn’t know anything, but with show-offs to heaven
                        Quote: WW2
                        In the degradation of other relations from bourgeois to feudal. Feudal, I recall just in case, they are below the bourgeois. Preceded by the bourgeois.

                        Once again, WHAT SPECIFICLY degradation ?!
                        can't answer don't get smart
                        Quote: WW2
                        I'm not even going to do this with someone who does not recognize the obvious things.

                        Sorry, but you are an ordinary troll who doesn’t know anything, grabbed the top in magazines a la twinkle and writhes out of himself
                      6. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 15: 51
                        -6
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        that is, you are simply an ordinary balabol who doesn’t know anything, but with show-offs to heaven

                        I am not your servant. Internet to help.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Once again, WHAT SPECIFICLY degradation ?!

                        Political economy and social science to help.
                        You already tired me, you don’t know elementary things, but for some reason you get involved in an argument.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Sorry, but you are an ordinary troll who doesn’t know anything, grabbed the top in magazines a la twinkle and writhes out of himself

                        Yeah. You, a person who does not even know what an OEF, revolution, etc. more visible.

                        Educational program for preschool children is closed today.
                      7. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 17: 00
                        +2
                        Quote: WW2
                        I am not your servant.

                        I would not have taken you as a servant
                        Quote: WW2
                        You already tired me, you don’t know elementary things, but for some reason you get involved in an argument.

                        miracle, I have already bumped you into the ignorance of definitions a hundred times
                        Quote: WW2
                        Yeah. You, a person who does not even know what an OEF, revolution, etc. more visible.

                        Educational program for preschool children is closed today.

                        so you’ve shown your stupidity, you crowed nonsense and how you were asked to make out on examples, quickly such as the Internet to help
                        to the garden mediocre troll
                      8. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 19: 07
                        -6
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        I already bumped you into the ignorance of definitions a hundred times

                        You are lying.
                      9. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 20: 53
                        +3
                        Quote: WW2
                        You are lying.

                      10. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 13 January 2019 22: 48
                        +2
                        Quote: WW2
                        The movement of society one step down is obvious. What can be doubts?

                        “Culture has no future here and lives on the reputation of the pre-war era. We expect civilization to be saved from Russia, ”George Bernard Shaw.
                        The newspaper Pravda, April 18, 1935
                      11. WW2
                        WW2 13 January 2019 23: 30
                        -4
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        We expect civilization to be saved from Russia, ”George Bernard Shaw.
                        The newspaper Pravda, April 18, 1935

                        What are you talking about?
                      12. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 14 January 2019 08: 14
                        +1
                        this is to "degradation" although if yours is possible without quotes
              2. Dude
                Dude 13 January 2019 04: 52
                +7
                Quote: WW2
                Quote: Dude
                Do not ascribe to the October Revolution (and to Lenin, respectively) what was done by the bourgeois February Revolution.

                Explore the meaning of the term "revolution". And stop writing nonsense like "October Revolution". There was no such historical phenomenon. This is a Bolshevik fiction.
                With the February Revolution is also not easy. Actually, it happened in March 1917. So if we look at the previous period, then the February-March maximum.
                And the "October" reactionary coup, it is also not an October one. And January 1918 with the previous period, the maximum is October-January.

                How everything is started at you! repeat I don’t even know what can be said when a person denies historical facts and the most obvious things ...
                1. WW2
                  WW2 13 January 2019 10: 45
                  -7
                  Quote: Dude
                  I don’t even know what can be said when a person denies historical facts and the most obvious things ...

                  Learn the story. Then maybe something will be understood.
          4. karabas86
            karabas86 11 January 2019 23: 22
            +1
            Uncle Petya are you ???
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 11 January 2019 16: 11
          +23
          Quote: Altona
          Wow. Was the Russian Empire an ideal state?

          One of the famous politicians in Germany, once said, the USSR was the highest embodiment of Eurasian civilization. And only half a century after its disappearance, many understand the truth of these words.
          Now, according to the article ... the author can scientifically approach, not scientifically, this question, but ... but excuse the very appearance of the USSR, as a state is not historical nonsense? Who could have thought and assumed this in a drunken delirium in those days?
          So all the conclusions of the author can be safely lowered into the toilet.
          The bottom line is that sooner or later, but the states bordering with us will unite around us. So it was ALWAYS historically. Why? Yes, because they are all weak, and therefore they need protection, both military and political and economic. I repeat, it was ALWAYS historically so.
          And the emergence of a new reincarnation of the USSR is defined. Of course, the ideology will be different, but the essence of this union will not change.
          Question-When? Here I will answer with the words of the characters from the movie "The Three Musketeers" - maybe in 20 years, or maybe in 10 ... or maybe in three or four centuries!
          1. saigon
            saigon 11 January 2019 18: 22
            +5
            For others to join Russia, our country must again become an EMPIRE, to tempt the peoples and rulers of neighbors, we need an imperial ideology (it doesn’t matter especially with emphasis on ideology like the USSR or protection and, or raising the standard of living as RI)
            The empire should be both at the stage of becoming RI attractive, bear the temptation.
            And then they will reach for protection behind the rays of the lobes.
            1. Pax tecum
              Pax tecum 11 January 2019 20: 38
              +6
              Or like this...
              1. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 11 January 2019 22: 30
                +5
                I would say that the outlines of the Russian Empire in 1870 are shown in this figure is not entirely correct. For example, the Kuril Islands have been part of Japan for five years.
            2. puskarinkis
              puskarinkis 11 January 2019 21: 32
              +2
              RI was different from other Empires, where the mother country robbed colonies. Therefore, be afraid of the objection of RI in the West, because they think of our Empire as their own - to be afraid of becoming a colony!
          2. Commihunter
            Commihunter 11 January 2019 20: 51
            -8
            "And only half a century after his disappearance, many understand the truth of these words."

            I don’t know who understands what, but I remember the seats for which my parents stood in line for 82 for a month, every day I went to roll call so as not to fly out of it (line) and as a result I bought chairs, but not those wanted to.
            Nobody really needs such a "supreme embodiment" :)
            And Western politicians did not live under the Union (unlike even me) and do not know the "joy" of "the best state in the world," and therefore they mold whatever.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 11 January 2019 21: 27
              +14
              Quote: Commihunter
              I don’t know who understands what, but I remember the seats for which my parents stood in line for 82 for a month, every day I went to roll call so as not to fly out of it (line) and as a result I bought chairs, but not those wanted to.
              Nobody really needs such a "supreme embodiment" :)

              You certainly do not need to, because you are from a generation that without rags, gadgets and iPhones can’t even imagine life.
              You do not answer for all, dear. From your words, there was no progress in the USSR, everything froze in the 80's. It’s like you exchanged your country for cheap jeans, chewing gum and iPhones, after which, from 3 in the morning, in lines like a herd of rams, crowd. They would look at themselves from the side ...
              Under the USSR, there was confidence in the future. And now do you have such confidence? Under the USSR, the citizens of this country were respected. And now, half the world holds us for barbarians. In the USSR, everyone had work, free apartments, free education (the best in the world), free medicine ... and now for one trip to the doctor we sometimes give a monthly salary. In the USSR, the purchase of gasoline was not even included in the expense item, since it was penny.
              And yes, under the USSR there were no Ukrainians, Armenians, Moldavians, Georgians ... but there were SOVIET PEOPLE. And at the same time it was the most reading nation! Notice, reading Gogol, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, and not like cats and food, with a moronic look of downs.
              Of course you don’t need all this. Because you are from a generation of consumers, and not from a generation of creators, creators and discoverers.
              1. Commihunter
                Commihunter 11 January 2019 23: 30
                -10
                "From your words, there was no progress in the USSR, everything froze in the 80s."
                The USSR began to lag behind in the 69th year, when, instead of developing their own computers, they decided to purchase the IBM architecture. The machines were purchased, up to the collapse. Kiev "Arsenal" on German machine tools Carl Zeiss AG made military optics "unparalleled", they did not have their own, they did not know how to fine manufacture. I can name you many more things of foreign firms (mainly machine tools and some equipment) that the USSR bought from the "Decaying West". And in the end, I could not even copy them by reverse engineering, because in the West, technologies had already gone beyond the understanding of Soviet engineers. By the way, this is still being heard around the CIS.

                "Do you have such confidence now?"
                Personally, I have

                "Under the USSR, everyone had a job, free apartments, free education (the best in the world)"
                The work for which you did not pay extra, you look at how much at the same time there was an average salary in the USA, England, France, Germany and compare with the Soviet one.
                And the Soviet apartments were state-owned, you could be evicted from there at any moment, which is why by the way they had to be privatized to ordinary people in the 90s.
                Do not tell me about education, I found him yet. Yes, and in the same Ukraine / Russia / Belarus, in fact, it is still such, "best" since many teachers have been teaching since those times :)

                "Because you are from a generation of consumers, not a generation of creators, creators, and discoverers."
                Yes, I’m not from a generation of nonsuns, collective farmers drunks and a non-initiative gray mass or some kind of KGB scum. And I am proud of this, since I, as a free person, can be a creator, creator and discoverer. Look how many sensible things people from the CIS invented! In the USSR, they would have rotted in some sort of zachuhany scientific research institute, or in prison.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 11 January 2019 23: 59
                  +9
                  Quote: Commihunter
                  I as a free person can be a creator, creator and discoverer.

                  What did he create, hunter Mykola?
                  1. Commihunter
                    Commihunter 12 January 2019 00: 15
                    -8
                    Enough for your own apartment, car, and land for the cottage.
                    This is good capitalism: the one who works "including" his head and has a little luck - becomes rich, who works and includes the head but has no luck - secured, the one who just works - well-fed and contented.
                    And only the red-bellied lazy people scream what needs to be taken and divided :) because they are now hungry :)
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 12 January 2019 00: 24
                      +8
                      Quote: Commihunter
                      he who simply works is well-fed and satisfied.

                      Go, work for the minimum wage, I will look at you, well-fed and satisfied. And then on such a well-fed pension.
                      Quote: Commihunter
                      And only the red-bellied idlers

                      Shut up.
                      1. Commihunter
                        Commihunter 12 January 2019 00: 38
                        -12
                        So who is your doctor if you are only enough to work for the minimum wage?
                        Find a normal job if you have straight arms OR brains. And if there is neither one nor the other, then yes, it remains only to remember and cry about the Scoop.
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 12 January 2019 00: 46
                        +9
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        So who is your doctor if you are only enough to work for the minimum wage?

                        I know places where you can’t find work for the minimum wage.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        only about the scoop to remember and cry.

                        Quote: Commihunter
                        Enough for your own apartment, car, and land for the cottage.

                        All this is free, except for the car. And the land under the dacha was almost shoved into us by force. And apartments were only taken from the convicted, or rather, they were written out.
                      3. Commihunter
                        Commihunter 12 January 2019 00: 59
                        -10
                        "I know places where you won't find a job even for the minimum wage."

                        Leave such places, again. Look at yourself from the outside: "I will not leave the depressed region, I will plow for a penny and cry what a bad life." Isn't it funny?
                        People in other countries go and work at construction sites or on the field to provide for their families.

                        "All this is free, except for the car."
                        Yeah, and how long did you have to wait, do not remind? :) They waited for a car for 5 years, and this is only in the queue itself. And not only the car, I wrote about the chairs above. A month to wait, ride on roll call to buy two chair beds.
                        And this is even if you do not take into account the fact that people in the USSR paid a penny. For your work, the same American received more at times.
                        Example: in the USSR, the average salary was 120-150 rubles in the 1970s. In the United States at that time, the average salary was $ 515.
                        If we take it at the official rate of 67 kopecks per dollar, it turns out that the Soviet citizen received 179-223 dollars. And this if you believe the official rate. And in the 1970s, foreign exchange agents did not buy dollars at 67 kopecks at all :))) There, if real to count the course (so I'm definitely not sure how much he was in the 70s) then even less will work out.

                        And so it turns out that without paying extra for its citizens, the country gave them "free" (state, you had no rights to them) apartments, as if from itself. It's strange that you don't understand this, by the way. These are the foundations of economics.
                      4. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 12 January 2019 01: 18
                        +8
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        Leave such places again.

                        I have reasons not to leave. Like many others. You said nothing about pensions.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        Yeah, and how long did you have to wait, do not remind? :)

                        I do not recall, it was not interesting to me.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        A month to wait, ride on roll call to buy two chair beds.

                        Never stood in line for furniture. Having received a new apartment, immediately furnished.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        in the USSR, the average salary was 120-150 rubles in the 1970 year. In the United States at this time, the average salary was 515 dollars.
                        If we take the official rate of 67 kopecks per dollar, then it turns out that the Soviet citizen received 179-223 dollars. And this if you believe the official rate. And in the 1970, the currency traders did not buy dollars at 67 cents at all :)))

                        This dispute can be dragged on indefinitely. If we take technology, or consumer goods, then "there" they were cheaper. If we take medicine, housing and communal services, transport services, then it was definitely cheaper to live in the USSR.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        And so it turns out that without paying extra for its citizens, the country gave them "free" (state, you had no rights to them) apartments, as if from itself. It's strange that you don't understand this, by the way. These are the foundations of economics.

                        And I, in your opinion, just mentioned the minimum wage? I perfectly remember how our cleaning lady and her son were given an apartment. Now, calculate how much time, she can afford to buy an apartment, say for two million. Given that she needs to put on shoes, get dressed, etc. How to count - say. And I'll sleep for now.
                      5. Commihunter
                        Commihunter 12 January 2019 01: 34
                        -10
                        "I have reasons not to leave. Like many others."
                        Well then, do not complain. My friend in the DPR was able to find a side job, and I made good money by local standards while the war was spinning around. He wrote comments on the Internet for money. The 43rd year was a peasant, by the way. The main thing is to have a desire and brains as well as work to apply, and money will be.

                        "If we take medicine, housing and communal services, transport services, then it was definitely cheaper to live in the USSR."
                        You know how to count and read, huh? But honestly. I gave you the NUMBERS, and for obvious reasons you cannot refute them. Figures that in the USSR the average salary in the 1970s was TWO TIMES LOWER than in the United States. Saving on each citizen 50% of his wages, the state could play "free". in the 1980s, the average salary in the United States was already $ 1080, and in the USSR, 120-150 rubles remained, here already Scoop paid only 25% of the market wages. Therefore, one should not be surprised that in the 90s, salaries overnight became 20-25 bucks. They just came into market equilibrium.

                        It's as if you worked for me for a month, I paid you 25% so that you get it from my competitor and then buy you a ride for a month and pay for utilities and say, "I gave it to you, love me." That is, for your own money :)

                        How to count - say
                        He won’t just buy, if he will be a cleaner in the province. And if she has the willpower to go to the capital, to learn the language and manners, then she will turn from a cleaning woman into a maid, who receives completely different money. Or go abroad and earn money there.
                      6. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 12 January 2019 09: 22
                        +9
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        He wrote comments on the Internet for money.

                        Well, I write articles. For money.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        You know how to count and read, eh? Only honestly. I brought you the NUMBERS, and for obvious reasons you cannot refute them.

                        All this crap - numbers. So, for a pump worth 25 rubles, they gave 2 a VCR abroad, and if we are talking about numbers, then modern Russia has dropped below Honduras in terms of salary.
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        And if she has the willpower to go to the capital, to learn the language and manners,

                        If she has a crocodile-like face, then no language with manners will help. And this does not negate the fact that anyone in the USSR could get a hut, regardless of income level.
                      7. Consultant
                        Consultant 12 January 2019 09: 26
                        -7
                        Vladimir hi

                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Well, I write articles. For money

                        Drop links in PM, read with interest.

                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        If she has a crocodile-like face, then

                        There are no ugly women stop laughing

                        But seriously - with me such fears work with me ... not all, of course, but still ...

                        There are in nature positions (professions), on which a woman’s usefulness is absolutely independent of, ahem, the exterior.

                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        in the USSR, anyone could get a hut

                        And he might not have received it. And could get to retirement. Lottery with request
                      8. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 12 January 2019 12: 49
                        +4
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Drop links in PM, read with interest.

                        I’m sorry, I’m writing for sale, by orders. On Advego. And where they are placed there, I have a drum. There, advertising and information is mostly uninteresting.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        together with me such fears work ...

                        Face control. wink
                        Quote: Consultant
                        And he might not have received it. And could get to retirement. Lottery with
                        The lottery has less chance.
                      9. Consultant
                        Consultant 12 January 2019 12: 56
                        -3
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Face control

                        Not ... logisticians, accountants ...

                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        The chance of a lottery is less

                        That is yes. But the principle is the same request
                      10. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 12 January 2019 13: 11
                        0
                        Quote: Consultant
                        But the principle is the same

                        Our company constantly built houses. In the home, the construction team was. There was no lottery there. Although, no, my dad was playing cards on which floor to live. Produl, received the fourth, instead of the third.
                      11. Commihunter
                        Commihunter 12 January 2019 12: 36
                        -6
                        "then modern Russia in terms of wages fell below Honduras"
                        Now the median salary in Russia is 25 thousand rubles, which is about 400 tons. In the USSR, given the real exchange rate (in 1984m 6-7 rubles per dollar), salaries were at the level of 20 bucks. Progress 50 times, as for me perfectly.

                        And this if we take into account the fact that now you do not have to stand in huge lines, get a deficit through friends, save up for some things for decades. There is money - I went and bought what my heart desires.
                        You don’t need to fly from Kharkov to Tashkent to buy fur coats (yes, yes, the real facts from my scoop teachers, though they didn’t understand how their beloved Scoop dropped it), as the full-time planned economy sent the same number of fur coats to Tashkent and Kharkov :)))

                        And this does not negate the fact that anyone in the USSR could get a hut, regardless of income level.
                        Yes, the apartment on which, in fact, everyone earned himself, not earning a full salary (in the 1980s they received only 25% of their market labor cost, I will remind) and at the same time not having the rights to this housing. Actually, because of the second point, people had to privatize their apartments, because there were no documents on the property.
                      12. Commihunter
                        Commihunter 12 January 2019 14: 25
                        -5
                        I am glad how the fans of the USSR are minus They have nothing to say in essence, except for their mantras "free apartments, free education, free medicine"
                        And when you start to explain to them that nothing exists for free, and all of their medicine and study apartments are just a consequence of the fact that they themselves paid a penny at work, the result is obvious - anger at the truth and cons :)))

                        Nothing, "dear", the scoop has burst, now your children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren can live by their own mind and work, and be rewarded according to the efforts made. Isn't this the highest grace and justice?
                      13. Meshcheryak
                        Meshcheryak 12 January 2019 18: 58
                        +6
                        Quote: Commihunter

                        I am glad how the fans of the USSR are minus They have nothing to say in essence, except for their mantras "free apartments, free education, free medicine"
                        And when you start to explain to them that nothing exists for free, and all their apartments are medicine and study just a consequence of the fact that they themselves paid a penny at work

                        Here it is!)))) But I thought .... And then, my dear, why now they pay a penny, which is not enough even for food? probably for this we have some huge privileges?))) Speak and don’t talk, you’re not convincingly lying!))))
          3. Pax tecum
            Pax tecum 11 January 2019 21: 05
            +13

            Here, a worthy statement ...
            1. Mestny
              Mestny 11 January 2019 22: 24
              -12
              These are those friends, comrades and brothers who beat each other in communal apartments? Or "made a career at work"?
              I remember how. For example, I saw a queue for vodka, where not animals, not things, but proud Soviet people, members of the Soviet family society, for several bottles of the state drink smashed each other’s face into blood.
              The worst thing about the destruction of the USSR is not what Semin writes. The worst thing is the loss of faith in the goal under the USSR. Because the goal was explained in a deadly cynical language - we are building communism, where everyone will have everything they want.
              1. Campanella
                Campanella 13 January 2019 22: 41
                +3
                Did you see it on TV? And now they’re killing for cutting the car. Progress however ....
            2. Victor Kamenev
              11 January 2019 22: 37
              -15
              Akhineya, from a brother who did not live in the USSR, and a family, when for a housing problem everyone was ready to cut their throats in the throat. Yes, the pawns of each other were respected, and the party bosses with these pawns played checkers.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2019 23: 09
                +6
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                all throats were ready to cut each other.

                but at the same time went to a neighbor for salt or matches
              2. Meshcheryak
                Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 23: 39
                +8
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                family, when they were ready to cut each other's throats for a housing issue.

                Isn’t it right now? Something has changed for the better?)))
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                Yes, pawns respected each other, and party bonuses played drafts with these pawns.

                And now, even pawns do not respect each other, and the nuvarish even play zapadlo in them, the scale is not that))))
              3. bolt
                bolt 12 January 2019 00: 12
                +6
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                Akhineya, from a brother who did not live in the USSR, and a family, when for a housing problem everyone was ready to cut their throats in the throat. Yes, the pawns of each other were respected, and the party bosses with these pawns played checkers.


                You, apparently, are the author ... I don’t even know what to tell you. You are either miserable, having lost his mind, or an ignoramus and balabol who has lost conscience.

                You are referring the entire article to Lev Nikolaevich Gumilyov and are not able to quote him correctly.

                ... Well, what am I intellectual - I have a profession, and I love my homeland!


                But after this your comment, in my opinion, you are still an ignoramus and a balabol who has lost his conscience.
                1. Mestny
                  Mestny 12 January 2019 01: 16
                  -10
                  Well, well, calmer.
                  You should not use this kind of argument. You perfectly understand that this is not so.
                  What does this change in the quote you quoted? Nothing. on the contrary, it adds more precisely to the meaning referred to by the author of the article.
                  Your reaction resembles an insult to a strong interlocutor with arguments. And you probably did not live in the USSR, unlike.
                  And you know about him only from the Internet from real balabol in the style of party propaganda of the times of Brezhnev.
                  Believe me, for the rest of the participants this is no less obvious - no matter how much you would assure us of the opposite. Because those who really lived there - at least now they don’t argue. but just keep quiet.
                  Because they have seen everything in this very USSR. Not from books, not from the stories of "historians" like Yulin, not from the files of the newspaper Pravda, but after experiencing, let's say, the diversity of socialism in the USSR in my own life.
                  Diversity. think about it.
                  No one says that everything was badly decided.
                  They are trying to tell you that, well, everything was definitely not there either. And that the amount of bad turned out to be much more good as a result, which led the system into the abyss.
              4. free
                free 12 January 2019 10: 09
                +8
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                Akhineya, from a brother who did not live in the USSR, and a family, when for a housing problem everyone was ready to cut their throats in the throat. Yes, the pawns of each other were respected, and the party bosses with these pawns played checkers.

                The author is in the service of the bourgeois ?!
                1. your1970
                  your1970 12 January 2019 16: 25
                  0
                  in a neighboring apartment in Moscow, my sister’s sister threw from the balcony (1974god !!!!) because of the apartment mother did not want to share with him .....
                  1. free
                    free 12 January 2019 18: 33
                    0
                    Quote: your1970
                    in a neighboring apartment in Moscow, my sister’s sister threw from the balcony (1974god !!!!) because of the apartment mother did not want to share with him .....

                    Well, what does this prove? Besides the fact that people are placed in inhuman conditions, and the fact that many have changed their minds under new conditions, selling their conscience for money?
                    1. Darony Grebenkov
                      Darony Grebenkov 12 January 2019 19: 10
                      +1
                      Quote: free
                      Well, what does this prove? Besides the fact that people are placed in inhuman conditions, and the fact that many have changed their minds under new conditions, selling their conscience for money?

                      Absolutely! They put the people in bestial living conditions, in a stall, this is the main reason for the demographic decline. In the old days, every born son received land allotment from the community, and after the wedding a hut was built or a hut (it depended on the area), we do not take serfs into account, there a lot of it depended on the landlord. But in today's conditions, it’s just the time to envy RI serfs! All this is sad ...
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 14 January 2019 08: 24
                        -4
                        Quote: free
                        Well, what does this prove? Besides the fact that people are placed in inhuman conditions, and the fact that many have changed their minds under new conditions, selling their conscience for money?

                        Quote: Daronya Grebenkov
                        Absolutely! They put the people in bestial living conditions, in a stall, this is the main reason for the demographic decline.

                        For stubborn horned - it was at 1974 !!!!!whom then SOVIET power in inhuman and bestial conditions set ????
                        fool fool fool fool
            3. Meshcheryak
              Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 22: 37
              +1
              [quote = Pax tecum]
              Yes, Alexander! This is the whole point) Thank you!
          4. puskarinkis
            puskarinkis 11 January 2019 21: 28
            +8
            I agree that in certain conditions, much is possible. And science beyond grandeur can prove that white is black! I see the problem in the fact that the new Russian Empire (and not the USSR) is built according to the Western model: the metropolis-colony. They are building not in the interests of the people and without taking into account the mentality. The USSR that Stalin wanted to build is very close to me and very scary for those who are used to rob nations.
            1. Mestny
              Mestny 11 January 2019 22: 28
              -11
              In such cases, it is usually recommended to ask those. who then really lived.
              Not a party leader, not a director of Gortorg, and not even his driver, but a hard worker.
              There are very few of them left, but so far there are.
              But how they will not remain at all - here agitators about the beautiful Stalinist USSR will flood all ears with their lies.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2019 23: 10
                +4
                Quote: Mestny

                In such cases, it is usually recommended to ask those. who then really lived.

                my grandmother lived
                Quote: Mestny
                they will flood all ears with their lies.

                but specifically it is possible - what lies that flood the ears?
                1. Mestny
                  Mestny 12 January 2019 01: 23
                  -8
                  Yes please.
                  "In the USSR, everything was done for an ordinary person."
                  Lies.
                  It was done. But not everything, not for everyone, and of different quality.
                  "There was order in the USSR under Stalin"
                  Lies. They tried to restore this order, but even archival documents of that period confirm the existence of a monstrous mess, theft and incompetence.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 08: 13
                    +7
                    Quote: Mestny
                    "In the USSR, everything was done for an ordinary person."
                    Lies.

                    firstly, where did you find such a slogan?
                    secondly and what exactly is a lie?
                    Quote: Mestny
                    "There was order in the USSR under Stalin"

                    will you attribute all quotes from modern newspapers to the slogans of the USSR ?!
              2. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 14 January 2019 08: 42
                +2
                Quote: Mestny
                But how they will not remain at all - here agitators about the beautiful Stalinist USSR will flood all ears with their lies.

                you can not separate Stalin from the people who lived in the USSR! But the people did not get sugar. In the early 30s there was a generation that was born and grew up in wars and revolutions, which became disillusioned with the church, the king, and governments, did not believe in words and was used to holding weapons in their hands and submit to force.
          5. your1970
            your1970 12 January 2019 16: 23
            -1
            Quote: NEXUS
            And the emergence of a new reincarnation of the USSR is defined. Of course ideology will be different,but essence of this union Will not change.
            Question-When? Here I will answer with the words of the characters from the movie "The Three Musketeers" - maybe in 20 years, or maybe in 10 ... or maybe in three or four centuries!
            -if ideology will be anothersorry - but it will be already not socialism and not USSR (which is "socialist")
        3. Plate
          Plate 11 January 2019 17: 06
          +7
          Was the Russian empire an ideal state?

          And the USSR was the perfect state? No, I was not. There can be no perfect states.
          1. Pax tecum
            Pax tecum 11 January 2019 21: 01
            +10
            Plate:
            Was the USSR an ideal state? ...

            It seems that it was an ideal state, especially during its dawn ...



            1. Victor Kamenev
              11 January 2019 22: 45
              -13
              The problem is that Stalin was not a communist, he was rather an anti-communist, because he defeated a real communist, Trotsky, he implemented the ideas of Eurasians, whom he was familiar with as opponents, but armed himself with ideas. Stalin has nothing to do with the late USSR, he was cursed in the USSR.
              1. WW2
                WW2 11 January 2019 23: 37
                -5
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                The problem is that Stalin was not a communist, he was more likely an anti-communist

                You are confusing the "old Bolsheviks" (those who at first seemed to be Social Democrats, and then became the RCP (b) eshniks) with the communists. Dzhugashvili really could not be called a real "old Bolshevik" (he never really was). He was the leader of the so-called. "renovationists". Ie "new Bolsheviks" or simply "Bolsheviks" as they were most often called (VKP (b) eshnikov).
                These are representatives of a completely different ideology, with the "old Bolsheviks" they had very little in common.
                Well, at least for a start, the RCP (b) eshniki longed for "communism" throughout the world, and the VKP (b) eshniks for "socialism" in a single country. Etc.
                Communists (KPSSniks), these are also others, not Bolsheviks (VKP (b) eshniki).
              2. Meshcheryak
                Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 23: 46
                -2
                Victor, I totally agree here!
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                Stalin has nothing to do with the late USSR, he was cursed in the USSR.

                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                The problem is that Stalin was not a communist, he was more likely an anti-communist, because he defeated the real communist Trotsky,

                Here I partially agree that Trotsky was not a real communist, but a real Zionist under the guise of a communist
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                in fact, he introduced the ideas of the Eurasians, whom he was familiar with as opponents, but then, clashing with Trotsky, armed himself with their ideas.

                Here you are right too.
              3. free
                free 12 January 2019 10: 06
                +8
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                The problem is that Stalin was not a communist, he was rather an anti-communist, because he defeated a real communist, Trotsky, he implemented the ideas of Eurasians, whom he was familiar with as opponents, but armed himself with ideas. Stalin has nothing to do with the late USSR, he was cursed in the USSR.

                Justify. Anything but just words.
              4. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 17 January 2019 21: 03
                +1
                Quote: Victor Kamenev
                he was cursed in the USSR.

                My mother told me that people were crying at home on the street ... about his death. And not only from her, I heard it. Gorbachev is cursed with us. Khrushchev was removed before the curse. What about Stalin's anti-communism is a philosophical question. He did not beat some presumptuous "communists".

                It was recalled that before people traveled to Moscow and it was believed that everyone should visit the Mausoleum at least once in their life. If I’m in Moscow, I’ll put 2 cloves.
                1. 019
                  019 17 January 2019 21: 27
                  -2
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  My mother told me that people were crying at home on the street .... about his death.

                  There are enough fools everywhere.
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Khrushchev managed to take off before the curse.

                  And the USSR lost the chance to become "the first China".
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Gorbachev is cursed with us.

                  Brezhnev and the whole Politburo squad must be cursed, not Gorbachev.
                  That's the darkness, just amazing.
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  If I’m in Moscow, I’ll put 2 cloves.

                  Better for children to buy something. And then there will be no shame. If shame still remains.
                  1. aybolyt678
                    aybolyt678 17 January 2019 22: 35
                    +1
                    Quote: 019
                    There are enough fools everywhere.

                    I did not insult your mother and grandmother. Although if there are enough fools everywhere, then smart ones, judging by your comment, are in short supply.
                    Quote: 019
                    Khrushchev managed to take off before the curse.

                    And the USSR lost the chance to become "the first China".

                    The USSR lost its pace, not because Khrushchev was removed, but because it had been set earlier. By the way, Khrushchev destroyed relations with all the eastern Communist parties by a proposal to send them Stalin's coffin to Beijing. .
                    Quote: 019
                    Brezhnev and the whole Politburo squad should be damned

                    In unofficial conversations, Brezhnev always summed up the conversation to the following: "comrades need to work better." He was not a bad person, but sick and not an intellectual. Suslov is a gray eminence who is slowly killing the development of the socialist system through improperly organized propaganda
                    1. 019
                      019 17 January 2019 23: 11
                      -1
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      I did not insult your mother and grandmother.

                      And I didn't insult them. Just in a colloquial form he duplicated the medical term "idiot". This is such a disease.
                      Or are those who weep for the death of their chief tormentor not called so?
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      Although if there are enough fools everywhere, then smart ones, judging by your comment, are in short supply.

                      You see. And write that you do not insult.
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      The USSR lost its pace, not because Khrushchev was removed, but because it had been set earlier.

                      Is it necessary to write nonsense?
                      Here are just a brief summary:
                      1. Khrushchev created nuclear parity with the United States. No, not a nuclear bomb. And the means of delivery.
                      And Dzhugashvili could use this bomb only under his own ass. To spite everyone. It is a pity that he did not go to Tierra del Fuego and did not do so.
                      2. Khrushchev in 1960 promoted the 20-year development program for Siberia. This program feeds you to this day. Oil and gas from Russia from there.
                      It would be possible to continue, but I will not.
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      By the way, Khrushchev destroyed relations with all the eastern Communist parties by a proposal to send them Stalin's coffin to Beijing.

                      Yes, to hell with them. All together, in bulk. Because they were just riddlers.
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      In informal conversations, Brezhnev always summed up the conversation to the conclusion that "comrades need to work better"

                      Why didn’t he start with himself?
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      He was a good person, but ill and not intellectual.

                      So what for then he was needed for so long at the head of the USSR?
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      Suslov is the gray cardinal who is slowly killing the development of the socialist system through improperly organized propaganda.

                      Dear, that which itself was dying, can, of course, be pushed to death. But the main reason will not be in the pusher. And in the non-viability of the pushed.
                      The rapidly decaying USSR was supposed to glue fins back in the mid-50s. But the Bolsheviks (they should not be confused with the population of the USSR) were lucky; in 1941, 2MB (September 24.09.1941, 35) came to the territory of the USSR. This extended the agony of the USSR for another XNUMX years.
                      1. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 18 January 2019 13: 27
                        0
                        Quote: 019
                        1. Khrushchev created nuclear parity with the United States. No, not a nuclear bomb. And the means of delivery.

                        I wonder on what basis did it? belay
                        Quote: 019
                        Khrushchev in 1960 promoted the 20-year program for the development of Siberia. This program feeds you to this day. Oil and gas from Russia from there.

                        If oil and gas is development, now Russia is the most developed country in the world. laughing
                        Quote: 019
                        And Dzhugashvili could use this bomb only under his own ass.

                        Chkalov forgot? or were there no submarines? or just to say something? yes
                        Quote: 019
                        Why didn’t he start with himself?

                        Do you know what Brezhnev died from? And he died for the same reason as Elvis Presley. Long-term use of barbiturates. They were used at that time for treatment for drug addiction and as sleeping pills. Long-term use of barbiturates causes severe depression. What kind of performance is there? Or maybe it's a diversion? the first person of the country to deprive of working capacity !!!
                        Quote: 019
                        So what for then he was needed for so long at the head of the USSR?

                        the communist system itself requires a very responsible person at the head of the pyramid of power. Assuming that if not communism, but developed socialism is possible only if there is an elite selection and training system
                        Quote: 019
                        This extended the agony of the USSR for another 35 years.

                        Well, imagine that Stalin would live 15 years more, the agony would last 50 years?
            2. Plate
              Plate 12 January 2019 12: 55
              0
              It seems that it was an ideal state, especially during its dawn ...

              I am also a good friend of Comrade Stalin, and I think that he did more good than bad. And I also consider that era to be the heyday. However, I can now name, in my opinion, one flaw. There were no passports from the collective farmers. Yes, a trifle against the background of general achievements, I do not argue. However, we are talking about ideality, and one, even the smallest flaw, ideality destroys.
              If they went back to the era of Stalin, then it seems to me that Mao’s statement about 70% good and 30% bad is correct here. Ideality requires 100%, right?
              1. your1970
                your1970 14 January 2019 13: 43
                0
                Quote: Plate
                Collective farmers did not have passports. Yes, a trifle against the background of general achievements, I do not argue.
                -the problem was that people were leaving collective farms ....
                And even the lack of a passport did not really stop - there were a lot of legal ways. The guys went to the army - then to the police or to construction sites, the girls in universities, then worked out according to the distribution. And you can’t stop them ...
            3. your1970
              your1970 14 January 2019 08: 30
              -2
              you have a nuance - a price reduction has occurred AFTER monetary reform — when household incomes fell in 10 times(decrease by 20%). People did not have money, people began to murmur- forcedly reduced prices
              1. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 17 January 2019 21: 07
                0
                Quote: your1970
                you have a nuance - the price reduction happened AFTER the monetary reform - when household incomes fell 10 times (decrease by 20%)

                this is your nuance stop monetary reform was in 1961 almost 10 years after the death of the Leader. negative Don't try to be smart
                1. your1970
                  your1970 17 January 2019 22: 06
                  0
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Quote: your1970
                  you have a nuance - the price reduction happened AFTER the monetary reform - when household incomes fell 10 times (decrease by 20%)

                  this is your nuance stop monetary reform was in 1961 year almost 10 years after the death of the Leader. negative Don't try to be smart

                  have fun with you .... with ideological and well-read fool .....
                  "The conditions of the monetary reform were set out in the Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR and the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) N 4004 of December 14 1947 (!!!!) of the year “On monetary reform (!!!!) and the abolition of food and industrial cards. ” The decision was signed by the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR I. Stalin (!!!!) and the Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) A. Zhdanov. "
                  "When recalculating salaries, money was exchanged in such a way that the salary remained unchanged. For deposits in Sberbank, amounts of up to 3 thousand rubles were also exchanged one to one, for deposits from 3 to 10 thousand rubles, savings were reduced by one third of the amount, for deposits in in the amount of over 10 thousand rubles, half of the amount was withdrawn. Those who kept money at home received, upon exchange one new ruble for ten old. "
                  1. aybolyt678
                    aybolyt678 17 January 2019 22: 26
                    0
                    Quote: your1970
                    when exchanged, I received one new ruble for ten old ones. "

                    I repent, I somehow did not forget about this one. Although one in ten is not impressive, I survived perestroika; I lived in Magadan and had an account. Everything burned down, the amount for which you could buy a new car in a few weeks turned into a bicycle and then a bottle of vodka in general, and inflation in 1991 had beneficiaries far from the state. The 47-year reform, of course, was of a fiscal nature, but it equalized[b] [/ b] Do not forget that in those years nuclear weapons were just being built. Not everything was in order with agriculture. Or did you want to repeat the famine in the Volga region?
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 17 January 2019 22: 33
                      +1
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      Although one in ten is not impressive
                      -so the main thing was that the cards were canceled. And I had to buy everything practically commercial prices, unlike fixed cards ...
                      And the people began to grumble, he grumbled before that, so they slightly reduced prices ....
                      At the same time, it must be said that this reform is forcedtoo much money was in the country generally unsecured ...
                  2. aybolyt678
                    aybolyt678 17 January 2019 22: 40
                    +1
                    Quote: your1970
                    one new ruble for ten old.

                    I’ll add that the reason for the reform was the huge money supply of counterfeit money printed by Hitler Germany to undermine the economy of the USSR. At least this is the official version.
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 18 January 2019 09: 56
                      0
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      the huge money supply of counterfeit money printed by Hitler Germany to undermine the economy of the USSR. At least this is the official version.
                      - this is crap. Even the text of the decision shows that the problem was an overabundance HIS money supply

                      "Huge military expenses demanded the release of a large amount of money. The amount of money in circulation has increased significantly, as in all states participating in the war. In the same time decreased the production of goods intended for sale to the public, and retail sales decreased significantly.
                      In addition, as you know, during the Patriotic War, German and other invaders issued large amounts of counterfeit money in rubles in the temporarily occupied Soviet territory, which further increased the surplus of money in the country and littered our money circulation. "
          2. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 14 January 2019 09: 00
            +2
            Quote: Plate
            And the USSR was the perfect state? No, I was not. There can be no perfect states.

            a moot point. looking at what years. Do not forget that he lost a fifth of the country's population in the war! at the same time remained among the most politically significant states and developed. This speaks of a statehood close to the ideal impossible in the conditions of pluralism of liberalism and democracy
        4. Steel falcon
          Steel falcon 12 January 2019 19: 41
          0
          Although not ideal, but the period of its existence is the golden age of Russia, it is the standard to which Russians must tirelessly strive to build a state.
          1. WW2
            WW2 12 January 2019 20: 15
            -4
            Quote: Steel Falcon
            but the period of its existence is the golden age of Russia

            Uncle, are you crazy?
            Quote: Steel Falcon
            to which Russians should tirelessly strive to build a state.

            In fact, the Bolsheviks were ardent Russophobes, and the USSR was a real prison of peoples. At first, they fought with the Russians (with the Russian Volunteer Army), then they squeezed out its remains abroad, and those who remained mostly shot.
            Then they liquidated Russia, and on its bridge created their own USSR.
            Then they pinched the Russians (and representatives of all other nations), as they could all the way to the USSR.
            And now, it turns out, the state of bloody oppression of Russians (and representatives of all other nations), this is the ideal of the existence of Russians.
            You write so monstrous nonsense that even no words.
            1. Steel falcon
              Steel falcon 12 January 2019 20: 26
              -1
              I'm talking about the Russian Empire.
      2. UMA-UMA
        UMA-UMA 11 January 2019 17: 02
        +8
        Lenin had to reduce this empire, because the last novels entered the unnecessary country of the First World War. Stalin, after 20 years, returned all these territories without a single shot.
        1. Konstantin Shevchenko
          Konstantin Shevchenko 11 January 2019 17: 49
          -5
          Romanov climbed in or declared war on him?
          1. UMA-UMA
            UMA-UMA 11 January 2019 17: 53
            +3
            Was he declared a war or didn’t he leave the Entente into which he entered?
            1. Konstantin Shevchenko
              Konstantin Shevchenko 11 January 2019 17: 55
              -7
              Germany itself declared war directly, and not through the Entente. You are obviously from Belarus or dill. The most interesting question is the question. You have weak trolling.
              1. UMA-UMA
                UMA-UMA 11 January 2019 18: 55
                +3
                Naturally, trolling is weak, because I'm not a Troll, unlike you. Question to question is my irony for your trolling, the irony because I spoke about the unnecessary nature of a war that could and should have been avoided. And also learn history, from you, the Kremlin boat, this is a weak point.
                1. Underwater hunter
                  Underwater hunter 11 January 2019 19: 29
                  +1
                  Quote: UMA-UMA
                  And also learn history, from you, the Kremlin boat, this is a weak point.

                  У wassat there are no strong places in my opinion at all ..
                  1. Meshcheryak
                    Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 22: 41
                    +4
                    Quote: Underwater Hunter

                    Quote: UMA-UMA
                    And also learn history, from you, the Kremlin boat, this is a weak point.

                    They have no strong places in my opinion ..

                    Victims of eHe!)))) Are recruited by the announcement of the wretched, who are not taken in five)))
                2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2019 23: 16
                  +4
                  Quote: UMA-UMA
                  And also learn history, from you, the Kremlin boat, this is a weak point.

                  but what does the Kremlin boats have to do with it ?!
                  1. UMA-UMA
                    UMA-UMA 12 January 2019 10: 24
                    +4
                    There are a lot of trolls for hire.
                    1. UMA-UMA
                      UMA-UMA 12 January 2019 10: 24
                      +1
                      In the Solovyov’s Brilevs are knocked out.
                    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 13 January 2019 08: 35
                      +4
                      how do you know ?!
                      have you seen in the statement when you got your salary?
                      1. UMA-UMA
                        UMA-UMA 13 January 2019 10: 46
                        -3
                        All Kremlin boats are united by one property - mediocrity, dullness and dullness of posts.
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 13 January 2019 11: 23
                        +2
                        I'm sorry, but you ... write
                        what bot to call you?
                      3. UMA-UMA
                        UMA-UMA 13 January 2019 16: 22
                        -2
                        In your type of patriotic understanding, I am an American hired person, for I do not share the enthusiasm of the Kremlin propaganda about how the Russian Federation is developing rapidly, and how good it is to live in it. I am writing figures and facts, this is beyond the scope of your worldview.
                      4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 13 January 2019 19: 55
                        +2
                        Quote: UMA-UMA

                        In your type of patriotic understanding, I am an American hired man

                        no, you won't hire, so I don't think about you, after the "kremlebots" I think that you are not very smart
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        I am writing figures and facts, this is beyond the scope of your worldview.

                        and I also think so because you know not knowing about my worldviews, talk about them
                      5. UMA-UMA
                        UMA-UMA 14 January 2019 00: 13
                        -1
                        You are only bickering. Bored with you. It will be, in essence, write, but I do not participate in skirmishes.
                3. Tank hard
                  Tank hard 12 January 2019 01: 01
                  -7
                  Quote: UMA-UMA

                  Naturally, trolling is weak, because I'm not a troll, unlike you

                  Then I laughed for a long time ... But what, did Stalin and Poland and Finland return?
                  1. UMA-UMA
                    UMA-UMA 12 January 2019 10: 21
                    +7
                    I’ve been laughing at you for a long time laughing No, it returned part of Poland and part of Finland when it refused to push the border from Finland. And of course, Stalin was a bloody tyrant, Lenin was an evil dwarf, and Nikolai was a saint. Only for some reason the people called the bloody saint ... and so everyone in the know, voiced Medvedev, they are building a state similar to Nikolaev Russia. Beggar, wretched, with eternal trouble.
                    1. Tank hard
                      Tank hard 12 January 2019 16: 48
                      +2
                      Quote: UMA-UMA
                      I’ve been laughing at you for a long time no,

                      And he promised not to communicate laughing
                      Quote: UMA-UMA
                      The former returned part of Poland and part of Finland when it refused to push the border away from Finland.

                      A masterpiece! Did not finish school at all? wink
                      Quote: UMA-UMA
                      Russia.

                      Quote: UMA-UMA
                      Beggar, wretched, with eternal trouble.

                      How do you love Russia, and the same plus you .... request
                      All the same two troubles in Russia. repeat
                      1. UMA-UMA
                        UMA-UMA 12 January 2019 19: 58
                        +2
                        I will conduct an educational program, you are really illiterate. 1. Western Belarus, which became the 39th Soviet, was in Poland. 2. According to the results of the winter war, the Finnish border was moved 200 km from Leningrad.

                        And yet, son (this is not familiarity, I’m fatherly), I have served my homeland for half my life, and not you, theorist, to talk about love or dislike for the homeland.
                      2. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 January 2019 20: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        And further, son (this is not familiarity, this is my fatherly name), I served my homeland for half my life, and not you, theorist

                        And what year was your father born, a practitioner and a patriot? (Country in the studio, because his ardent opposition to the annexation of Crimea to Russia does not speak of a patriot of Russia (that he is not a patriot of Russia, the “father” has already admitted). just like that, he served all his life ... yes
                      3. UMA-UMA
                        UMA-UMA 12 January 2019 20: 16
                        -4
                        Right now, I’ll give you my son a detailed biography, yeah. Who is the enemy against thoughtless politics? Great logic. Patriots of Putin and patriots of the Motherland, Russia are two different things. And it’s not for you, Putin’s patriot, to tell me about Vlasov, the flag of your Russia is the flag of the ROA of General Vlasov. When do you learn the story, kremleboty?
                      4. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 January 2019 20: 26
                        +2
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        Right now, I’ll give you my son a detailed biography, yeah

                        I see ... yes Here on the site there is an individual with the nickname "Professor", he is Sokolov, are you not relatives? wink
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        And not for you, Putin’s patriot

                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        flag your Russia, this is the flag of the ROA of General Vlasov.

                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        When you learn a story, kremleboty?

                        What a sweetheart you are! fellow
                        And I'm a monarchist, and an oligarch, you missed it. laughing
                        What an intelligence! hi
                        PS
                        But there is progress, Russia finally wrote with a capital letter! Corrected. yes
                      5. UMA-UMA
                        UMA-UMA 12 January 2019 20: 30
                        0
                        Essentially, you have nothing, a fashion person. However, as usual. Tank and void. All just some kind of kiddies and slogans. Boring.
                      6. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 20: 19
                        0
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        2. According to the results of the winter war, the Finnish border was moved 200 km from Leningrad.

                        Nonsense.
                        The border was pushed back in 1945. And in 1940 it was a temporary phenomenon.
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        I served half my life

                        Not to the Motherland, but to your pocket.
                        They serve the homeland for FREE (free of charge).
                      7. UMA-UMA
                        UMA-UMA 12 January 2019 20: 39
                        -3
                        How are you, the tank quickly changed shoes))) in the sense of nickname changed tongue you still work on the style - Schaub it was different for you.

                        The border was not pushed back for a while, just in the 41st war began to forget? Did you mean diplomas?
                        It’s indecent to look into other people's pockets. Tell me, do Putin and the team serve the homeland for free?
                      8. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 January 2019 21: 02
                        -2
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        How are you, the tank quickly changed its shoes))) in the sense of nickname, you changed your style - work Schaub, he was different

                        Do you double ?! Try not to abuse, it is harmful to health ... repeat
                4. Konstantin Shevchenko
                  Konstantin Shevchenko 12 January 2019 05: 42
                  -6
                  For that you have the strongest place, it's lying.
              2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2019 23: 15
                +5
                Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko

                Germany itself declared war directly

                RI had obligations under an alliance agreement not to get into the arms of the Franks. Nicholas could possibly delay the war or join the Germans.
                1. UMA-UMA
                  UMA-UMA 12 January 2019 10: 23
                  +2
                  Well, a competent person. BONES, teach history, not tambourines rubbish about lies.
          2. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2019 23: 14
            +7
            Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko

            Romanov climbed in or declared war on him?

            climbed in, he did everything so that RI was drawn into the war, what is the conflict of interests of the English Franks and Germans understandable for which they fought understandably, what conflict of interests between the Germans and Russians is absolutely not clear, and for what Russia has fallen a big secret
        2. Commihunter
          Commihunter 11 January 2019 20: 53
          -9
          "Stalin, 20 years later returned all these territories without firing a single shot."

          And the war with Finland where 126 thousand Soviet citizens died and even more became crippled, what then? Although, given the ratio of losses between the Finns and the councils, one really gets the feeling that the latter did not shoot
          1. Mestny
            Mestny 11 January 2019 22: 36
            -10
            You see, what is the point ... these modern agitators for socialism act exactly according to the same scheme as their historically failed predecessors. Namely, they firmly believe in what is written in the official Soviet sources. For example, in the newspaper Pravda.
            I assure you, about 126 thousand there and no spirit. But there is a glorious victory of the Red Army.
            And for them it means so. and there were no shots and no dead.
            They found, for example, protocols of interrogation in the archive, and it says “criminal article”, such and such.
            So that’s how it was - they put him in charge, Stalin did well.
            They are still alive, and their relatives - well, then, here we are, or ours really for nothing, he died, they shot ...
            And they in response - individual flaws, excesses in the field. Otherwise, everything is according to the law, and your grandfather was a villain and a thief.
            Try to prove something to them.
            And most importantly - nothing changes. NOTHING. The same motives, the same technology. Even the words are almost the same.
            So why not go to defend the new Soviet system from hostile elements? They will go after all, and joyfully. still - for a bright future struggle. There are no splinters here.
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2019 23: 18
              +7
              Quote: Mestny
              They found, for example, protocols of interrogation in the archive, and it says “criminal article”, such and such.
              So that’s how it was - they put him to work,

              why did they put the Queen ?!
              why so far they haven’t planted the floor of the Roskosmos for this? !!!!
              1. Mestny
                Mestny 12 January 2019 01: 24
                -7
                And why did they put him by the way?
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 08: 15
                  +8
                  Quote: Mestny
                  And why did they put him by the way?

                  be surprised, for the case - misuse of budget funds, well, if in modern language
                  1. Commihunter
                    Commihunter 12 January 2019 12: 45
                    -8
                    For "sabotage" he was imprisoned and tortured in the Gulag itself. The broken jaw never recovered, by the way.

                    He was rehabilitated at 57m, by the way, which, as it were, proves the guilt of those NKVD scum who first put him in prison and then tortured him.
                    1. Antares
                      Antares 12 January 2019 13: 38
                      -1
                      Quote: Commihunter
                      For "sabotage" he was imprisoned and tortured in the Gulag itself. The broken jaw never recovered, by the way.

                      In January and February 1938, Glushko and Korolev were removed from work, Korolev lost his job as head of the department, and work on his rocket plane was discontinued.
                      Meanwhile, Langemak broke down after two weeks of interrogation and signed everything that was required of him. At the beginning of January 1938 Kleimenov and Langemak were shot for participating in an anti-Soviet Trotskyist organization and for wrecking, consisting in slowing down the development of promising weapons. (consequence of denunciation of a competing group)
                      A month later, Glushko was arrested. Only Korolev remained at large, but they soon came for him.
                      On June 27, 1938, Sergei Korolev was arrested. He was charged under the most serious political article - 58th, on two counts: 58-7 - "Undermining state industry <...>, committed for counter-revolutionary purposes through the appropriate use of state institutions and enterprises, or opposition to their normal activities" - and 58-11 - "Any kind of organizational activity aimed at preparing or committing crimes provided for in this chapter
                      Exactly three months after the arrest, Korolev was sentenced to 10 years in prison with confiscation of property and loss of rights for another five years. The indictment stated that Korolev is a member of the wrecking Trotskyist anti-Soviet organization, on the instructions of which he conducted criminal work to disrupt the development and commissioning of new types of weapons for the Red Army.
                      Zhitormitsu was incredibly lucky that he was not immediately shot. Because they did not kill him by torture, because they did not rot him in the prison / camps because the conditions there were not sugar. Then he could have died if he had got on the "Indigirka" steamer (almost all of them sank) ...
                      and Injuries from the beating of valiant servants shortened the life of a Great man who brought glory to the country and peoples. / Humanity .... That's how some low uneducated people could ruin the Talent of Humanity ... he was lucky by a miracle, but many did not!
                    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 14: 27
                      +4
                      Quote: Commihunter

                      For "sabotage" he was imprisoned and tortured in the Gulag itself. The broken jaw never recovered, by the way.

                      not actually
                      they planted him for the fact that instead of developing rocket artillery, he was doing what he wanted - winged torpedoes
                      although technically it was not feasible on that segment of history
                      sabotage this same can be called on the eve of the war people reduced the defense of the army
                      although non-targeted use of public funds is more suitable

                      "In 1936 he was developing a gunpowder winged torpedo; knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo - devices with photocells - for controlling the torpedo and aiming it at the target, cannot be made by the central laboratory of wire communications, Korolev, in order to load the institute with unnecessary work development of the missile part of this torpedo in 2 versions.
                      As a result of this test, four torpedoes built by Korolev showed their complete inadequacy, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 rubles and delayed the development of other, more topical topics (ld 000-250). "

                      I threw off a rogue such as Trotskyism and so on, but this is the main thing, by the way the queens, in principle, was a very difficult person according to the reviews of those who worked with him
                      1. Commihunter
                        Commihunter 12 January 2019 14: 40
                        -4
                        Yeah, and at first he went on the hit lists, and he (like the whole USSR) was lucky to have reconsidered the case.

                        And so it is clear that you do not understand how science works, but by the way, those who sentenced did not understand.
                        I laughed for a long time with this quote:
                        In 1937, when developing the side compartment of the torpedo (winged), he made a wrecking calculation
                        Under "sabotage" should be understood "wrong"? I do not even want to focus on the fact that erroneous calculations are inevitable costs of scientific activity.
                        By the way, I remind you that the case was reviewed a couple of times, which is a good argument for his fabrication and exhaustion from the finger. The first time they were revised in the 39th year, then they were released ahead of schedule at 44m, and rehabilitated at 57m. Or does rehabilitation mean nothing to you, huh?

                        "Meanwhile, Langemak, after two weeks of interrogation, broke down with partiality and signed everything that was demanded of him. In early January 1938, Kleymenov and Langemak were shot for participating in the anti-Soviet Trotskyist organization and sabotage."

                        During the investigation, Korolev pleaded guilty to

                        Obviously, one can confess everything under torture, starting from wrecking and ending with a conspiracy with reptilians.
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 14: 56
                        +2
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        Obviously, one can confess everything under torture, starting from wrecking and ending with a conspiracy with reptilians.

                        Once again, instead of the state task, he did what he wanted or not ?!
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        And so it is clear that you do not understand how science works, but by the way, those who sentenced did not understand.
                        I laughed for a long time with this quote:

                        Well, yes, of course, but let's develop a Jedi lightsaber and equip our soldiers with them, and it doesn't matter that it's stupid, but we will "move" science to the truth who knows where
                      3. Commihunter
                        Commihunter 12 January 2019 15: 13
                        -2
                        You better answer the question why, if he really is to blame, his case was reviewed first in the 39th year, then released at 44m, then rehabilitated at 57m.

                        And meanwhile, again: you do not understand how science works
                        in those days they gave TK level: Develop a new weapons system.
                        So he worked out, because you never know which project will shoot and which will not. I am telling you this as a person who finances startups and himself was engaged in the development of all sorts of ideas. It was the same then. And we will never know about guidance systems, whether he knew or not. They gave it a couple of times in the face and immediately "understood" that this cannot be ruled out.


                        Did they give him money for these torpedoes? Means approved his idea. And how did you understand that nothing came of it, and you have to answer for the money - shifted responsibility. This was typical of the USSR, by the way in all its times.
                      4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 15: 23
                        +2
                        why rehabilitated understandably
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        his case was first reviewed in the 39th year, then released at 44m

                        because it’s stupid to hammer nails with a microscope
                        but from what happened the essence does not change instead of the state order did what he wanted
                        By the way, in the circles of designers and scientists, such arbitrariness and tyranny can only be suppressed toughly
                        if only one talented designer, Yakovlev, broke the jaw, look at the start of the war, we would fly on non-obsolete and unfinished planes and on machines surpassing the enemy, and we would have saved many lives
                      5. Commihunter
                        Commihunter 12 January 2019 16: 35
                        -4
                        instead of government order
                        Provide data on what the state order was, how it sounded.

                        The conviction says only that the torpedoes did not fly and the damage was done to the country's budget (120 thousand rubles). That is, the failed R&D result was transferred to the head of the designer, that's all.

                        "if only one talented designer, Yakovlev, had broken the jaw"
                        And if the KGB ki did not kill designers and scientists in the 20s, 30s, 40s, if it were not for the Party's different prohibitions on "bourgeois sciences" and the typical "why do your own, if you can buy and copy" then perhaps the USSR would not have turned into backward, always catching up, resource base The West, which by the end of the 70s purchased all high-precision manufacturing and electronics in the West, because it did not know how to do it.
                      6. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 17: 13
                        +2
                        Quote: Commihunter
                        That is, the failed R&D result was transferred to the head of the designer, that's all.

                        you do not know how to read or play the fool ?!
                        As a result of this test, four torpedoes built by Korolev showed their complete unsuitability, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 rubles and delayed the development of other, more relevant topics (ld 250-251).

                        To control a torpedo and aim it at a target, it cannot be made by the central laboratory of wire communication. Korolev, in order to load the institute with unnecessary work, intensively led the development of the missile part of this torpedo in 2 versions.


                        Artificially delayed the production and testing of defense facilities (object 212) (ld 21, 54, 255).


                        Quote: Commihunter
                        And if the KGB ki did not kill designers and scientists in the 20s, 30s, 40s

                        the names of aircraft designers killed by the "bloody gebnya" in the studio
            2. Meshcheryak
              Meshcheryak 12 January 2019 00: 00
              +7
              Quote: Mestny
              You see, what is the point ... these modern agitators for socialism act exactly according to the same scheme as their historically failed predecessors. Namely, they firmly believe in what is written in the official Soviet sources. For example, in the newspaper Pravda.

              Sergey, I already wrote that I draw conclusions from the words of my ancestors - direct participants in the events. The ancestors were tribal Cossacks and Old Believers, centenarians and did not miss more than one war. Great-grandfather said for Finnish that there was a lot of confusion, of course, but good soldiers fought, but the way of counting and Finnish propaganda is another matter. A simple example of cuckoos, this whole canoe appeared in the nineties) Great-grandfather said that the Finns had a lot of well-aimed skier shooters with ordinary mosquitoes (like biathletes), but there were no snipers at all, and we had trained snipers with optics on selected mosquitoes and skiing, too, were many.
              1. Tank hard
                Tank hard 12 January 2019 01: 08
                -6
                Quote: Meshcheryak
                The ancestors were tribal Cossacks and Old Believers, centenarians and did not miss a single war

                And the Cossacks, is it a people or class?
                1. Meshcheryak
                  Meshcheryak 12 January 2019 11: 24
                  +5
                  Quote: Tank Hard
                  And the Cossacks, is it a people or class?

                  A provocative question))) My personal opinion is that there was such an estate in the Republic of Ingushetia, now it is gone and can no longer be for objective reasons. Before joining Russia, the Don, Combin and Terts were a separate people - the Slavic-Turkic subethnos. The old tribal Cossacks (my donors were) always counted themselves as separate people and did not even marry Russian peasant women. Now there are also many among the clans who consider themselves to be separate people and even write a Cossack in their birth certificates (imagine this is possible). And I consider myself Russian already, because brought up in the Russian environment and one grandmother is already from Chernigov, the second from Samara.
                  1. Tank hard
                    Tank hard 12 January 2019 16: 52
                    -3
                    Quote: Meshcheryak
                    A provocative question))) My personal opinion is that there was such an estate in the Republic of Ingushetia, now it is gone and can no longer be for objective reasons.

                    My personal opinion is that for a Cossack by birth, this is not a question, the answer is clear. Thank you for your answer, everything is clear to me with this. yes
                    1. Meshcheryak
                      Meshcheryak 12 January 2019 18: 42
                      +4
                      Quote: Tank Hard
                      My personal opinion is that for a Cossack by birth, this is not a question, the answer is clear. Thank you for your answer, everything is clear to me with this.

                      And what is clear to you?) I said that the question was provocative) I would definitely say that I am in favor of the Cossack people and January 24 is a day of sorrow for me, write in separs, I’ll say that the estate - say that the Cossacks never considered themselves estate, but only by the people) And, if for the sake of cleanliness, then I lived with my grandfathers in the Don for up to 13 years, then my parents took me to Moscow and I was strongly reformatted, and Cossack self-consciousness already appeared in my adulthood under the influence of contributing events. Then I already remembered how my grandfather and great-grandfather mounted a horse in June at the time of haymaking at the age of 5, how he rode around the farm, and what they sentenced ...
                2. Darony Grebenkov
                  Darony Grebenkov 12 January 2019 20: 03
                  +1
                  Quote: Tank Hard
                  And the Cossacks, is it a people or class?

                  May I answer? People, separate people! Descendants of wanderers, who came from Sarmatians and Scythians! Also in the ethnogenesis of the genesis of the Cossacks, the Eastern Goths took part, later the essence of the Cherkasy Caucasians. There is a Slavic component, but not very significant, because Contrary to popular belief, the runaway peasants were not accepted into the Cossacks, but left as free farmers, the Cossacks were disgraced to marry peasant women ... More characteristic moments: the Cossacks adopted Christianity much earlier than Russia from Byzantium, were part of Khazaria as the main army against the Slavs on the Don and Volga Starting from the Battle of Kalka and the rest of the Horde period, they stood on the side of the horde, felt the Tatars in many campaigns, switched to the side of Russia (partially) only in the Battle of Kulikovo .... a lot of interesting things on this topic, but the answer is clear: Cossacks are a separate people!
                  1. Tank hard
                    Tank hard 12 January 2019 20: 17
                    -4
                    Quote: Daronya Grebenkov
                    People,

                    In my opinion, a native Cossack can only answer that way. yes
                    1. Darony Grebenkov
                      Darony Grebenkov 12 January 2019 20: 21
                      +1
                      Quote: Tank Hard
                      In my opinion, a native Cossack can only answer that way.

                      Thank you Will you be one of ours?
                      1. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 January 2019 20: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: Daronya Grebenkov
                        Of ours you will

                        Father, mother - Russian.
                  2. Leave the Townhouse
                    Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 00: 00
                    +3
                    Quote: Daronya Grebenkov
                    a lot of interesting things on this topic, but the answer is clear: Cossacks are a separate people!

                    May respect, as you recognize the Cossacks as a separate people, it was beaten with the Cossacks.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          2. Meshcheryak
            Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 22: 44
            +2
            Quote: Commihunter
            And the war with Finland where 126 thousand Soviet citizens died and even more became crippled, what then? Although, given the ratio of losses between the Finns and the councils, one really gets the feeling that the latter did not shoot

            My great-grandfather fought in Finnish, according to his stories, it wasn’t how you write, despite the fact that he could, by experience, compare with the WWI and the civil ...
            1. Darony Grebenkov
              Darony Grebenkov 12 January 2019 20: 10
              +1
              He told the great-granddaughter to the little one how-to-heart)))) Mine, when the conversation about the war went on only waved away thoughtfulness, and when the songs were at the table behind the glass and the memories were there and they wanted to tell, but they didn’t give tears ...
              1. Leave the Townhouse
                Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 00: 15
                +2
                Quote: Daronya Grebenkov
                He told the great-granddaughter to the little one how-to-heart)))) Mine, when the conversation about the war went on only waved away thoughtfulness, and when the songs were at the table behind the glass and the memories were there and they wanted to tell, but they didn’t give tears ...

                Ahh, then, then the military syndrome, then normal
        3. WW2
          WW2 11 January 2019 23: 12
          -5
          Quote: UMA-UMA
          Stalin, after 20 years, returned all these territories without a single shot.

          The USSR joined these territories in 1945. After 4 years of bloody war and 42 million people. direct losses only.
          And the seizure of these territories in 1939-40. had no significance for international law. If not for 2MB, everything would have to be returned. And with compensation.
        4. WW2
          WW2 12 January 2019 20: 32
          -3
          Quote: UMA-UMA
          Stalin, after 20 years, returned all these territories without a single shot.

          These territories were returned only in 1945 after a bloody war, which lasted 4 years and claimed the lives of 42 million Soviet people.
        5. your1970
          your1970 14 January 2019 13: 48
          0
          Quote: UMA-UMA
          Lenin had to reduce this empire, because the last novels entered the unnecessary country of the First World War. Stalin, after 20 years returned without a single shot all belay these territories.
          -th I missed that ??? !!! this is where and what he returned Without war? Poland belay ? Limitrophs with their underground pre-war? Finland belay ?
      3. rayruav
        rayruav 11 January 2019 19: 03
        -1
        army and you have a lot of territory
      4. sah4199
        sah4199 11 January 2019 19: 07
        -10
        Lenin associates seized power in Russia. He NEVER spoke of revolution, but spoke of the October Revolution.
        The Bolsheviks annexed all colonies of the Republic of Ingushetia to the USSR by force of arms.

        Well, now the Russian Federation simply does not have the strength for such actions.
        If the USSR fought in its colony before the outbreak of World War 2 (i.e., about 20 years) and in the newly annexed territories (W, Ukraine and the Baltic states), too, about the same, now the impulse in the Donbass ended at the 8-month storm of the DAP ( Donetsk Airport named after Prokofiev)
      5. Major_Vortex
        Major_Vortex 11 January 2019 19: 16
        +6
        Lenin divided Russia into several republics. So, for example, the Ukrainian SSR arose. Lenin really lost some of the territories. The return of the territories occurred under Stalin.
        1. Meshcheryak
          Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 22: 50
          +6
          Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
          Lenin divided Russia into several republics. So, for example, the Ukrainian SSR arose. Lenin really lost some of the territories. The return of the territories occurred under Stalin.

          The division into national republics was necessary because RI collapsed into national territories, not provinces, respectively, the national republics were then joined on a "voluntary basis", well, it was not a province at that time.
          1. WW2
            WW2 11 January 2019 23: 08
            -5
            Quote: Meshcheryak
            because RI fell into national territories

            Actually, not RI, but Russia. And only after the end of the Bolshevik coup (January 1918). They did not recognize the outskirts of the Bolsheviks.
    2. Dude
      Dude 11 January 2019 15: 26
      +35
      . PS Lenin built the state. And what did Gumilev build?

      When Gumilyov is referred to as an authority, everything becomes clear. Pseudo-scientist.
      That's right, it’s impossible to restore the USSR, therefore it is necessary to steal further, consider people to be cattle, and so that no one thinks of writing such guard articles, calming themselves and society.

      The USSR has been 27 years old, but no they everyone is afraid and flutter. Means must build a new version! good
      1. stariy
        stariy 11 January 2019 15: 40
        +16
        Quote: Dude
        So, you need to build a new version!

        Be sure to build !!!
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 11 January 2019 16: 13
          +21
          Quote: stariy
          Quote: Dude
          So, you need to build a new version!

          Be sure to build !!!

          Only without trailed and different Soviet Socialist Republics ... There is a single socialist state - the Russian Federation. Want to be part of the country - please, as areas.
          therefore any revolution does not achieve its stated goalstherefore neither USSR-2 nor "democracy" are possible

          What an interesting statement. It takes you straight away. And, my dear (different, everyone) sir, didn't the criminal revolution of the 90s under the control of the KGB and headed by the EBN achieve its goals? Isn't Shokhin in dark glasses a "gray cardinal" who has never done anything for the good of the Fatherland? What are you leading to? Don't rock the boat - everything was decided for you and without you? Look not chop off? There are not so many of you ... Your ideas are dull, your plans are thieves, your life is well-fed ... You rarely remember the people ... But we remember everything ...
          1. Mestny
            Mestny 11 January 2019 19: 18
            -7
            Quote: ROSS 42
            didn’t the criminal revolution of the 90s led by the KGB and led by the EBN achieve goals?

            No, not reached.
            They did not really build capitalism, they cannot really destroy socialism.
            Again, it turned out like with communism - neither this nor that, nor on the side of the bow.
            1. Meshcheryak
              Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 22: 53
              +6
              Quote: Mestny
              Quote: ROSS 42
              didn’t the criminal revolution of the 90s led by the KGB and led by the EBN achieve goals?

              No, not reached.
              They did not really build capitalism, they cannot really destroy socialism.
              Again, it turned out like with communism - neither this nor that, nor on the side of the bow.

              Someone was going to build capitalism?))) Maybe they originally planned to build a colony?) So they built it, the next step is digital slavery!)
              1. Mestny
                Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 00
                -7
                So what about the colonies - capitalism or not?
                Digital slavery ...
                It seems that civilization is taking the next step forward, and once again we do not understand, hate and fear.
                Say - this step is wrong, leads to death?
                And I will ask - how do you know this, what exactly is to her?
                Our dear "analysts" over the past couple of centuries have not once guessed either usefulness or harmfulness. And only then we hopped frantically trying to jump into the departing train of civilization.
                1. Meshcheryak
                  Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 23: 17
                  +5
                  Quote: Mestny
                  So what about the colonies - capitalism or not?

                  So I would like Russia to be not a colony, but a metropolis, if only for that polo)
                  Quote: Mestny
                  It seems that civilization is taking the next step forward, and once again we do not understand, hate and fear.
                  Say - this step is wrong, leads to death?

                  The question is on whose side are these technologies. And I will say: infa is collected not only by your actions on the Internet, but also on the phone, and on electronic bank cards and on moving in space with a smartphone. Everything is fixed, automatically, infa is processed. This is already underway, but so far you can only notice this in browser advertising and targeted mailing. Then it will be cooler, starting from personal recognition of all possible outdoor activities to karma, these technologies are already running in. And something tells me that they will all serve transnationals)
            2. Dmitry Zarutsky
              Dmitry Zarutsky 12 January 2019 01: 53
              +5
              Quote: Mestny
              Quote: ROSS 42
              didn’t the criminal revolution of the 90s led by the KGB and led by the EBN achieve goals?

              No, not reached.
              They did not really build capitalism, they cannot really destroy socialism.
              Again, it turned out like with communism - neither this nor that, nor on the side of the bow.

              Wow!) Naive))) Is that why the union was ruined in order to build civilized capitalism? wink What they wanted and did, everything goes according to plan. Now the stage of liquidation of social obligations has already begun, followed by an even larger demographic pit. The next stage is the division of Russia into districts, ideally with a citizen ... Normally, our administration is working)
              1. WW2
                WW2 12 January 2019 09: 59
                -8
                Quote: Dmitry Zarutsky
                Is that why the union was destroyed in order to build civilized capitalism? wink What they wanted and did, everything goes according to plan.

                Not according to plan, but according to the laws of development of society.
                Behind the slave ALWAYS there is a feudal system. And NEVER is capitalistic. This follows the feudal.
                So, everything is fine, there is nothing to worry about.
                But when the brains of a PEOPLE develop slightly, when he stops mumbling about the "bright past under socialism", then it will be possible to think about capitalism. Until then, early.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 10: 39
                  +5
                  Quote: WW2
                  But when the people’s brains develop slightly

                  you are still far from this
            3. Dude
              Dude 12 January 2019 02: 41
              +8
              Quote: Mestny
              Quote: ROSS 42
              didn’t the criminal revolution of the 90s led by the KGB and led by the EBN achieve goals?

              No, not reached.
              They did not really build capitalism, they cannot really destroy socialism.
              Again, it turned out like with communism - neither this nor that, nor on the side of the bow.

              Mestny colleague, I understand your position!
              But, believe me, without parallel socialism, during the course of the whole of the twentieth century, the friendly-Pharisee, tortured smile of capitalism would turn into a carnivorous grin)) Pretty insatiable laughing request That we, however, are now observing
              1. WW2
                WW2 12 January 2019 10: 01
                -6
                Quote: Dude
                But, believe me, without socialism existing in parallel, throughout the course of the whole of the twentieth century, a friendly-Pharisee, tortured smile of capitalism would turn into a carnivorous grin))

                Socialism has been gone for over a quarter century. Where is this grin?
                Quote: Dude
                That we, however, are now observing

                And what are you observing? What has changed in the world without socialism in the USSR?
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 10: 40
                  +4
                  Quote: WW2
                  then the world has changed without socialism in the USSR?

                  fool
                  1. WW2
                    WW2 12 January 2019 10: 49
                    -5
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    fool

                    You don’t have to beat yourself on the head. There will be no sense anyway.
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 11: 27
                      +4
                      Well, if you asked an idiotic question
                    2. Leave the Townhouse
                      Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 00: 23
                      +3
                      Quote: WW2
                      You don’t have to beat yourself on the head. There will be no sense anyway.

                      Ltd! I thought a wall knocked and pierced, such a beat said
                2. Dude
                  Dude 12 January 2019 11: 59
                  +3
                  I am observing a precisely verified plan for the extermination of Russian people in their places of residence. Something tells me that some people from our partners would gladly solve the Russian question completely.
                  Figures.
                  Knees describe.
                  Will explain. We have the Sailors; They dont have.
                  And, translate into Russian even from Ukromov, even from Kazakh (and also expensive to any independent Kazakhstan, Latin) terms of discharge, ash, well, and heap, dump, mine surveyor, stevedore, blast furnace, marten ?!
                  Well, - the slide rule wassat
      2. Victor Kamenev
        11 January 2019 15: 46
        -20
        And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity, but what did the rest of historical science give? She gave - "the end of the story" and screwed up in full. Gumilev turned out to be right, and historical science is now engaged exclusively in rewriting history, it ended, in accordance with its own prediction ...
        1. credo
          credo 11 January 2019 16: 02
          +19
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity, but what did the rest of historical science give? She gave - "the end of the story" and screwed up in full. Gumilev turned out to be right, and historical science is now engaged exclusively in rewriting history, it ended, in accordance with its own prediction ...

          I do not want to offend you, but when a person takes a theory for truth, then what is his argument here.
          Your statements about the truth of the theory are similar to the opinions of those same people who, not only with foam at the mouth but also through various programs, museums and other media, are trying to prove the truth of Darwin's theory, but it is only a THEORY, that is, an ASSUMPTION.
          Without belittling Gumilyov’s works, I still did not take them as the basis of my statements, but only as assumptions.
        2. Dude
          Dude 11 January 2019 16: 06
          +18
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity, but what did the rest of historical science give? She gave - "the end of the story" and screwed up in full. Gumilev turned out to be right, and historical science is now engaged exclusively in rewriting history, it ended, in accordance with its own prediction ...

          I’m not Ukrainian, and you are not Bagrov Sr. performed by V. Sukhorukov, to answer you, understand? wink
          Theory of passionate ethnogenesis is but a one of theories, and undeniable. Although not uninteresting.

          And you famously took - Gumilyov - everything, and the rest of the science - nothing, as you say! Moreover, you pass it off as an axiom. Some kind of sectarianism, IMHO.
          1. polar fox
            polar fox 11 January 2019 16: 55
            +6
            Quote: Dude
            And you famously took - Gumilyov - everything, and the rest of the science - nothing, as you say! Moreover, you pass it off as an axiom. Some kind of sectarianism, IMHO.

            I read the pretzel a book, I decided that I know everything ... and you ... a rag and a face cloth ... roughly straight ... winked
            1. Dude
              Dude 11 January 2019 19: 03
              +6
              Quote: polar fox
              Quote: Dude
              And you famously took - Gumilyov - everything, and the rest of the science - nothing, as you say! Moreover, you pass it off as an axiom. Some kind of sectarianism, IMHO.

              I read the pretzel a book, I decided that I know everything ... and you ... a rag and a face cloth ... roughly straight ... winked

              Yeah, incongruously somehow happened repeat recourse I just devoted a lot of time and attention to the study of the younger Gumilyov’s work. And he was always amazed at his amazing scientific eclecticism. Therefore, I know what I'm talking about. hi
            2. kjhg
              kjhg 11 January 2019 19: 16
              +10
              Quote: polar fox
              I read the pretzel a book, I decided that I know everything ... and you ... a rag, yes.

              I strongly disagree with the author, but I have a question for you: Have you at least read this book to speak out so insultingly about the author? am In general, what books have you read in your life?
            3. Mestny
              Mestny 11 January 2019 19: 25
              -4
              You are there to save your collective lips, builders 2.0.
              The author asked you in clear language - did there even exist at least one revolution without the blood and devouring of its children?
              So you answer him about Gumilyov begin - scientifically, not scientifically, theory, not theory.
              That's when the revolutionaries personally come to your home and begin to kill your family - here you will tell them that Gumilyov is not a scientist, but you personally for real science.
              The same conventional "boat" exists, whether you like it or not. Seeking to turn it over can only be some categories of citizens - those who have a spare boat nearby, and with previously washed empty brains.
              In other cases, everyone wants to save the boat.
              So, without Gumilyov and theories - personally, which option is closer to you?
              1. Meshcheryak
                Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 23: 01
                +4
                Quote: Mestny
                The same conventional "boat" exists, whether you like it or not. Only some categories of citizens are trying to turn it over - those who have a spare boat nearby

                ABOUT! Sergey, who has this spare boat?)))) Castles, villas, citizenships and tap-holes?))) Here they are swinging the boat, but we have nowhere to run to, to tear to the last throat. I hope that those who swing the boat)
                1. Mestny
                  Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 07
                  -4
                  These, who still have it, know what it is like to drive your own boat.
                  This is much better. than hoping to take a place in a stranger. Even if they promised you an oath, or you already bought a ticket.
                  It’s just not interesting to rock this with the aim of drowning.
                  And here is the very gobble that doesn’t have a ticket to the other - why does it swing? What would drown?
                  Well, the overseas future "golden billion" is therefore applauding them while standing - the boat prevents them ... to catch fish.
                  And so, no boats, no passengers. In one fell swoop two problems.
                  1. Meshcheryak
                    Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 23: 29
                    +6
                    Quote: Mestny
                    These, who still have it, know what it is like to drive your own boat.
                    This is much better. than hoping to take a place in a stranger. Even if they promised you an oath, or you already bought a ticket.
                    It’s just not interesting to rock this with the aim of drowning.
                    And here is the very gobble that doesn’t have a ticket to the other - why does it swing? What would drown?
                    Well, the overseas future "golden billion" is therefore applauding them while standing - the boat prevents them ... to catch fish.
                    And so, no boats, no passengers. In one fell swoop two problems.

                    And we’ll be tormented even on our foreheads, but if we resist, we’ll have at least some chance of winning, 100 years ago, the chances were extremely small ... If they decided to reduce us to 30 lyam, then they’ll and the colonial government will achieve this.
              2. free
                free 12 January 2019 10: 01
                +3
                Quote: Mestny
                You are there to save your collective lips, builders 2.0.
                The author asked you in clear language - did there even exist at least one revolution without the blood and devouring of its children?
                So you answer him about Gumilyov begin - scientifically, not scientifically, theory, not theory.
                That's when the revolutionaries personally come to your home and begin to kill your family - here you will tell them that Gumilyov is not a scientist, but you personally for real science.
                The same conventional "boat" exists, whether you like it or not. Seeking to turn it over can only be some categories of citizens - those who have a spare boat nearby, and with previously washed empty brains.
                In other cases, everyone wants to save the boat.
                So, without Gumilyov and theories - personally, which option is closer to you?

                The conditions were different, a different way of society. That's the answer. Now there will be no civil war.
        3. Meshcheryak
          Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 16: 25
          -1
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity

          + for this)
        4. Underwater hunter
          Underwater hunter 11 January 2019 16: 44
          +1
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity, but what did the rest of historical science give?

          This is the only thing I agree with you. But it was not possible to draw it to the topic of the USSR .. to put it mildly.
          1. Mestny
            Mestny 11 January 2019 19: 27
            -5
            And what was so special about the USSR?
        5. Tank hard
          Tank hard 12 January 2019 01: 18
          -3
          Quote: Victor Kamenev

          And answer for Gumilyov ... He gave the theory of passionarity, but what did the rest

          I read that during my life I didn’t dare to argue with Gumilyov, because he seemed to be a geographer, tied historical events to the geography of the past and not only to birch bark letters, which were written by various chroniclers by order of various princes, and even burned several times, then corresponded again . After death, as often happens, they began to throw dirt on him ...
      3. BAI
        BAI 11 January 2019 15: 55
        +7
        When Gumilyov is referred to as an authority, everything becomes clear. Pseudo-scientist.

        What is clear? Gumilyov everyone knows, many refer. And, excuse me, who knows you, and who refers to you to evaluate Gumilyov like that?
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 11 January 2019 19: 33
          -5
          These are representatives of the Goblin Witnesses Sect. They energetically explain to them who is a scientist and who is not. As befits sectarians - the slightest doubt about the veracity of ventriloquism of the Guru and his friends immediately leads to the expulsion of the former member.
          I used to read on their site sometimes, in places it was interesting. So far, everything has not turned into the intensity of idiocy - the construction of communism in Goblinsky, that is, rampant earning money for yourself on the idea of ​​building a just society.
          Those who came from there grit their teeth when they hear the expression "no need to rock the boat", believing that there is no boat at all.
          This makes them laugh Homeric the expression "we need to work better." In their view, it is probably not necessary to work at all - all the same, everything will go to the oligarchs, and this is unfair.
      4. Hlavaty
        Hlavaty 11 January 2019 18: 18
        +5
        Quote: Dude
        The USSR is 27 years old, as it is not, but they are all afraid and tremble.

        They tremble before that they begin to get confused in their own logic and misinterpret Gumilyov’s quotes.

        To the question of a certain “democratic pen” he answered: “What kind of democrat am I? I have a profession! ”

        Gumilyov said: "I am not an INTELLIGENT, I have a profession!"
        1. Dude
          Dude 11 January 2019 19: 11
          +6
          Quote: Hlavaty
          Quote: Dude
          The USSR is 27 years old, as it is not, but they are all afraid and tremble.

          They tremble before that they begin to get confused in their own logic and misinterpret Gumilyov’s quotes.

          To the question of a certain “democratic pen” he answered: “What kind of democrat am I? I have a profession! ”

          Gumilyov said: "I am not an INTELLIGENT, I have a profession!"

          In order to refer to Gumilyov, one does not need to carefully study his works. It’s enough, just to get acquainted with some kind of popular science review))) Yes, then problems with quotes arise, and errors in terminology, but what's the difference ?;) The main thing, even if neither to the village, nor to the city, refer to the loud name)) Profit received!
          1. Mestny
            Mestny 11 January 2019 22: 47
            -6
            Well, this is how to refer to Lenin without having studied his works.
            Or Stalin, studying life under him in the newspaper Pravda.
            1. Dude
              Dude 12 January 2019 10: 51
              +4
              I welcome you again, colleague! At 90 m, I managed to save both authors whom you designated from the PSS waste paper. Still on the shelf. The shelf is two-story, length - 5,40. Need quotes - waiting for a visit! hi drinks
            2. Dude
              Dude 12 January 2019 10: 59
              +4
              Quote: Mestny
              Well, this is how to refer to Lenin without having studied his works.
              Or Stalin, studying life under him in the newspaper Pravda.

              Come for quotes, read PSS, maybe it will benefit)
        2. Victor Kamenev
          11 January 2019 23: 03
          -8
          Not necessarily, there are different sources, they give different options, but in fact something is the same, but you misinterpret the essence.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. sniperino
        sniperino 11 January 2019 22: 32
        -4
        Quote: Dude
        When Gumilyov is referred to as an authority, everything becomes clear. Pseudo-scientist.
        Who really is the authority in ethnology?
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 11 January 2019 22: 50
          -7
          Like who? A well-known affair is Comrade Stalin.
          As the best student of Comrade Lenin.
          It is he who, as is known, illuminated the path to all sciences without exception in the USSR, thanks to the light bulb invented by Comrade Lenin and the GOELRO plan.
          1. Leave the Townhouse
            Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 00: 37
            +5
            Quote: Mestny
            Like who? A well-known affair is Comrade Stalin.
            As the best student of Comrade Lenin.
            It is he who, as is known, illuminated the path to all sciences without exception in the USSR, thanks to the light bulb invented by Comrade Lenin and the GOELRO plan.

            Wow, does he pick up? Happiness, father)))
        2. Leave the Townhouse
          Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 00: 28
          +2
          Quote: sniperino
          Who really is the authority in ethnology?

          authority? head need to work and not looking hto smarter
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 13 January 2019 16: 00
            -1
            Quote: Pokidka Gorozhavka
            head need to work and not looking hto smarter
            It depends on why work. Some are looking smarter than themselves, others are more stupid, others are looking for anyone.
    3. Victor Kamenev
      11 January 2019 15: 36
      -19
      And in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention in front of any party bureaucrats? "Nesuns" - a whole phenomenon formed by small thieves, dragging everything they could from their place of work. They went to Moscow for sausage, and the Volga region was always "starving". Your memory is very short, but it can be fixed.
      1. solzh
        solzh 11 January 2019 15: 43
        +24
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        and the Volga region was always "starving".

        This is when we were starving, remind me. And then I live in Ulyanovsk and don’t know that we are always starving ...
      2. Altona
        Altona 11 January 2019 15: 44
        +26
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        And in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention in front of any party bureaucrats? "Nesuns" - a whole phenomenon formed by small thieves, dragging everything they could from their place of work. They went to Moscow for sausage, and the Volga region was always "starving". Your memory is very short, but it can be fixed.

        ----------------------
        No, with memory, everything is fine with us, we remember blat, and careerism, and deficit. But everything that you listed was called banal degeneration, sabotage in the system of trade and the revival of petty-bourgeois self-awareness. You pretend to be some kind of science, and not just operate on sausage-jeans arguments.
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 11 January 2019 19: 37
          -6
          Well, this is a completely different matter!
          Sorry, I didn’t know that if stealing is called rebirth, then it turns out nothing. Can.
          That is, they fought with him with a communist, firm hand. Well, what did not overcome - well, historically insignificant period, the war prevented, hostile capitalist encirclement.
        2. free
          free 12 January 2019 09: 57
          +3
          Quote: Altona
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          And in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention in front of any party bureaucrats? "Nesuns" - a whole phenomenon formed by small thieves, dragging everything they could from their place of work. They went to Moscow for sausage, and the Volga region was always "starving". Your memory is very short, but it can be fixed.

          ----------------------
          No, with memory, everything is fine with us, we remember blat, and careerism, and deficit. But everything that you listed was called banal degeneration, sabotage in the system of trade and the revival of petty-bourgeois self-awareness. You pretend to be some kind of science, and not just operate on sausage-jeans arguments.

          hi
        3. sniperino
          sniperino 12 January 2019 16: 37
          -2
          Quote: Altona
          remember blat, and careerism, and shortages. But everything that you listed was called banal degeneration, sabotage in the system of trade and the revival of petty-bourgeois self-awareness.
          Party leaders have learned to call problems streamlined. And if you look a little inside the problem: without antagonistic classes, without private ownership of the means of production and exploitation, how could such a disaster happen to workers, collective farm peasants and intellectual laying in a country where being determined consciousness?
      3. New Year day
        New Year day 11 January 2019 15: 45
        +22
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        But in the USSR they didn’t steal, they didn’t rob,

        Want to compare with today?
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        didn’t stand at attention before any party bureaucrats?

        now exactly the same
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 11 January 2019 19: 40
          -4
          So now it’s clear why - in the courtyard there is capitalism with a beastly face.
          But under socialism with the human - how did this happen?
      4. Dude
        Dude 11 January 2019 15: 54
        +18
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        But in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention to any party bureaucrats?

        And they steal, rob, kill in all countries, on all continents, at all times and under any political system. Did not know? And, yes, the bureaucrats at the front are now quietly standing, as if no longer stretched out! Only now the council on the bureaucrat-official was easier, and they did not bury so
        like the current ones.
        "Nesuns" - a whole phenomenon formed by petty thieves, dragging everything they could from their place of work
        That's right, large thieves are now stealing. No, it’s arch-large. Well, progress, for sure!
        ... They went to Moscow for sausage, and the Volga region was always "starving".
        They went for sausage in late stagnation, when irreplaceable comrades had already torn themselves away from the people - nowhere else to go, and had nothing to do with socialist / communist principles, and the country confidently led to collapse - some because of their insanity and some because of desire grab yourself a fatter piece during a disaster.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 11 January 2019 16: 03
          +19
          Quote: Dude
          Only here the council for the bureaucrat-official was easier,

          it surely went to the district committee or wrote to the newspaper, and .. everything.
          And now the president is writing and saying, and things are still there
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 12 January 2019 16: 55
            -3
            Quote: Silvestr
            Quote: Dude
            Only here the council for the bureaucrat-official was easier,

            it surely went to the district committee or wrote to the newspaper, and .. everything. And now the president is writing and saying, and things are still there
            I went and wrote ... Did you write to the program "Obvious - Incredible"?
      5. stariy
        stariy 11 January 2019 15: 54
        +16
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        but it can be fixed.

        who will correct? Corrector will not break?
        1. Leave the Townhouse
          Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 00: 49
          +3
          Quote: stariy

          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          but it can be fixed.

          who will correct? Corrector will not break?
          Reply

          Iha rules long beat meka and weak laughing our time has come to the garden!) my mess!)
      6. Meshcheryak
        Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 15: 58
        +11
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        and the Volga region was always "starving". Your memory is very short, but it can be fixed.

        And then remember, since you have a long memory, who sold equipment and technologies to us then only for grain, which provoked his shortage. But I also remember from the stories of my great-grandfather and grandfather the horrors of the surplus appraisal, when the last-grandfather and the great-great-grandfather of the Antonov uprising were also taken away from the peasants from the peasants, and they also talked about taking the peasants hostage with shooting through one for not giving the Antonovites and about the Latvian riflemen, who for this sent from the Polish war. Everything must be remembered and not in places.
      7. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 11 January 2019 16: 18
        +13
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        But in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention to any party bureaucrats?

        What time in the USSR? You have forgotten one common truth: in the USSR, for today's today's thieves, they were either shot, or with a forfeiture of 15. Yes... stop In the USSR there was a criminal article for "sodomy", and the country's leader never showed loyalty to individuals of the LGBT community. In the USSR, it was considered bad taste.
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild 11 January 2019 19: 36
          -1
          Let me supplement you a little: in RI also adhered to the traditional orientation. Although this article has been canceled in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, 2/3 of men are of traditional orientation. Found on the Internet: attitude towards blue. Two friends decided to check how young people react to gays: they walked along the street and showed lovers. They were carefully provoked to a fight: they insulted, pushed and scoffed. So in our society there is little that has changed in relation to gays.
          PS In February 1917, criminal liability was abolished and reintroduced after the death of Lenin
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 12 January 2019 17: 21
            +2
            Quote: Astra wild
            2/3 men of traditional orientation
            This is according to the "nasty"? They like to overestimate their importance.
          2. Leave the Townhouse
            Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 00: 55
            +2
            Quote: Astra wild
            Let me supplement you a little: in RI also adhered to the traditional orientation. Although this article has been canceled in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, 2/3 of men are of traditional orientation. Found on the Internet: attitude towards blue. Two friends decided to check how young people react to gays: they walked along the street and showed lovers. They were carefully provoked to a fight: they insulted, pushed and scoffed. So in our society there is little that has changed in relation to gays.
            PS In February 1917, criminal liability was abolished and reintroduced after the death of Lenin

            Excuse me, I don’t understand, but were you wanting to skzat, ala cada se od onda doves?
      8. credo
        credo 11 January 2019 16: 24
        +15
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        And in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention in front of any party bureaucrats? "Nesuns" - a whole phenomenon formed by small thieves, dragging everything they could from their place of work. They went to Moscow for sausage, and the Volga region was always "starving". Your memory is very short, but it can be fixed.

        Do not twist and do not slide to the level of the dispute - "Doo..k".
        All the sins that you have listed and not listed have existed and have existed since time immemorial, so blaming the Soviet system for not eradicating them in a short period of time in the USSR simply looks naive and unconvincing on your part. Despite all the shortcomings of the Soviet system, he, unlike the bourgeois (capitalist) system, did not try to verbally but actually try to fight human sins and the fact that the Bolsheviks (Communists) failed to do this in such a short time, a little less than 70 years the right to reproach you with the USSR.
        As for the "party bureaucrats", there is a common name for this - bureaucracy - which has no borders and is widespread in all countries of the world, regardless of the social system. And what was the USSR guilty of here? He inherited this disease from capitalism and he suffered from it on an equal footing with everyone, although he fought with his own methods.
        So, to summarize the "collection" of your negatives about life in the USSR, I would suggest that you compare the life there with the current life in the Russian Federation from the point of view of the existing negative and positive on both sides, and then smoothly move on to general indicators and the possibility of reviving the new socialist building in Russia.
      9. saigon
        saigon 11 January 2019 18: 32
        +10
        But the USSR is my youth and I remember it well, and they did not go to Siberia from Moscow to sausage and did not stand at attention, I say youth!
        And I am taken aback, and just the same amazement when my peers spit in their youth in the USSR.
        That’s the most important argument for the USSR in my half a hundred with a ponytail years — the youth who left in a place with the Soviet empire, which was killed by the libero democrats.
      10. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 13 January 2019 15: 13
        +1
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        And in the USSR they did not steal, did not rob, did not stand at attention in front of any party bureaucrats? "Nesuns"

        all this about the sunset of the USSR. which began with Khrushchev.
    4. Meshcheryak
      Meshcheryak 11 January 2019 15: 42
      +15
      Quote: Altona
      That's right, it’s impossible to restore the USSR, therefore it is necessary to steal further, consider people to be cattle, and so that no one thinks of writing such guard articles, calming themselves and society.

      And who said that socialism cannot be built in our country? The representative of the aligarhat, his employers, will not allow him to do this with all his will. Who voluntarily parted with the loot?))))
      1. igorbrsv
        igorbrsv 11 January 2019 16: 20
        +3
        Without losses it is impossible. Without consequences
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 22
          -5
          In-in. Without consequences.
          But it won’t stop us, right? What are some consequences compared to the socialist happiness of our long-suffering country?
          It remains only to determine who is in consumption, and who will rebuild factories and roads with a Kyle and a wheelbarrow. Well, after the end of the civil war, and the restoration of order by NATO troops in the territory of the former state.
          Only we will not determine.
          1. igorbrsv
            igorbrsv 11 January 2019 23: 27
            -5
            . But it won’t stop us, right? What are some consequences

            Yes, they would have at least a clear goal. And then just down. Like Sobachak against everyone. They don’t even know what they want. Not to mention how to achieve this
          2. Dmitry Zarutsky
            Dmitry Zarutsky 12 January 2019 02: 02
            +2
            Quote: Mestny
            In-in. Without consequences.
            But it won’t stop us, right? What are some consequences compared to the socialist happiness of our long-suffering country?
            It remains only to determine who is in consumption, and who will rebuild factories and roads with a Kyle and a wheelbarrow. Well, after the end of the civil war, and the restoration of order by NATO troops in the territory of the former state.
            Only we will not determine.

            And why NATO?) How about the fact that China will occupy the territory in support of the Communist revolution in order to prevent NATO from entering Russia) What is the scenario?)
            1. Leave the Townhouse
              Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 01: 02
              +3
              The Chinese are happy for the script, si od where about teima nobility?
    5. Underwater hunter
      Underwater hunter 11 January 2019 16: 39
      +16
      So many empty words and letters .. Gumilyov even pulled. Stupidity is utter. They actively hammer that the USSR is impossible, that we are living better than anyone and other nonsense .. All these articles are commissioned by the capitalists, who sense that their outrages will soon come to an end .. everything and everything has rotted, nothing works, what’s now called the state, in fact, is simply a corporation that draws resources from Russia without paying attention to the problems of the population. Endlessly, this robbery cannot continue ..
      We need to return to the socialist idea, take all the best that was adapted to the current reality, and the rest (CIS) will catch up if they see how much better a simple person lives in Russia.
    6. UMA-UMA
      UMA-UMA 11 January 2019 17: 00
      +7
      Bravo. Bull's-eye. And the article is an ordinary pro-Putin agitation.
      1. igorbrsv
        igorbrsv 11 January 2019 17: 31
        -9
        Putin is to blame again wassat
        Could not pass by, sorry.
        The author basically claims that there are no revolutions without consequences and will have to suffer. And that the same old Union will no longer be.
        Only Putin does not have to drag. I still trust him. But neither I nor the author do not agitate you
        1. UMA-UMA
          UMA-UMA 11 January 2019 17: 51
          +6
          Well, what are you, Putin is not to blame for anything. He is beautiful.
          1. igorbrsv
            igorbrsv 11 January 2019 19: 06
            -6
            Well, women seem to like wassat
            It’s just that the author of the article did not mention him. I thought to hang up labels like the State Department and Putin is no longer in trend. How am I wrong wassat
            But if you tend to assume that the author is in the service bully
            1. UMA-UMA
              UMA-UMA 11 January 2019 21: 33
              +3
              Like women is of course the main necessary quality of the president.
              1. Mestny
                Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 14
                -9
                Women are citizens of the country. They like it - to strengthen power.
                What's wrong?
                Or maybe it is forbidden only to Putin?
            2. Campanella
              Campanella 13 January 2019 23: 03
              +1
              Interested in a circle of women who like Putin? And then it’s not about who someone likes, but about the state talents of our leaders. By the way, Putin personally said that he was responsible for everything in the country ....
      2. Leave the Townhouse
        Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 01: 10
        +3
        Quote: UMA-UMA
        Bravo. Bull's-eye. And the article is an ordinary pro-Putin agitation.

        That! then ye at the corridor of the orphans, and ford did not swing, God forbid!
    7. Astra wild
      Astra wild 11 January 2019 19: 12
      +3
      You read carefully, the author does not say that Gumilyov was building something. If you throw away all the verbal husk about Prigozhin-Bertalanfi, then Gumilev realized that it is better not to build an existing one, and even more so if the "builders" only know how to destroy, but how to build and what to build they do not know
      1. Mestny
        Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 18
        0
        This is without any Gumilyov knows any normal adult.
        Does not break the house in the winter. if he has nowhere to live.
        Whatever, but a roof over your head.
        But the alternative-gifted of course acts differently - it breaks everything.
        And sleeps in the winter in a hut built in haste from the wreckage of the former house that he hated.
      2. Leave the Townhouse
        Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 01: 16
        +3
        Quote: Astra wild

        You read carefully, the author does not say that Gumilyov was building something. If you throw away all the verbal husk about Prigozhin-Bertalanfi, then Gumilev realized that it is better not to build an existing one, and even more so if the "builders" only know how to destroy, but how to build and what to build they do not know

        Viste, madam, know, yes, write? I can’t understand you. Jaco and Ruski јesik znam.
    8. Etienne
      Etienne 12 January 2019 05: 27
      +1
      Lenin and Gumilyov had different tasks in life, so your comparisons are incorrect. How much each of them coped with their task can be judged today. Moreover, after the defeat of our state, which took place in the eighties and nineties. It should be noted that the reasons in question are associated with the assassination of Stalin and the coming to power of Khrushchev. It was these events that brought the country to defeat in the 80s and 90s. It was by this time that a gang of traitor-marauders was finally formed and strengthened, ready to tear the country apart. And for the fact that it was during this period that millions of our compatriots were physically destroyed, they will eventually have to answer. Today, the cries of this public are the best evidence that the failure of the adventure - "perestroika" and "reforms", put them outside the law and therefore the question of power has become the main question about the future of Russia.

      In support of the above, two conclusions of L. Gumilyov: "The presence of the class structure and the class struggle in the slave-owning, feudal and capitalist society are facts established and not subject to revision." And the second: "The social development of mankind has been well studied, and its laws have been formulated by historical materialism."
    9. Leave the Townhouse
      Leave the Townhouse 12 January 2019 23: 24
      +3
      Quote: Altona
      That's right, it’s impossible to restore the USSR, therefore it is necessary to steal further, consider people to be cattle, and so that no one thinks of writing such guard articles, calming themselves and society.
      PS Lenin built the state. And what did Gumilev build?
      Gumyalyov didn’t know what he built, but Lenin didn’t have time to build the state either, they built others according to his light.
    10. siberalt
      siberalt 15 January 2019 10: 37
      0
      If in principle, then you can build everything. Would this principle be elevated to the rank of state idea. Read the classics dear.
  2. izya top
    izya top 11 January 2019 15: 10
    +21
    I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?
    1. Altona
      Altona 11 January 2019 15: 15
      +18
      Quote: izya top
      I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?

      ---------------------
      Gumilev’s authority was brought to you.
      1. Mestny
        Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 31
        -7
        Why are you clinging to this Gumilyov?
        In the USSR, with 100% employment of the population in production and management in stores, it was a rolling ball. Where is it all? Where is the result of the labor of hundreds of millions of people? Automobile roads - and even then they were not built normal. Electricity in some villages of the northwest appeared in the late 70s, half a century after the "Ilyich bulb".
        Here you have the employment in production.
        1. Campanella
          Campanella 13 January 2019 23: 33
          +1
          Did capitalism give us everything?
          And they built roads and conducted electricity with gas.
          Yes, I forgot, the food appeared a lot of food, only eating it is dangerous to health.
      2. Leave the Townhouse
        Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 01: 21
        +3
        Quote: Altona

        Quote: izya top
        I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?

        ---------------------
        Gumilev’s authority was brought to you.

        Ovo sve obјashњava, Gumelev made it se))))
    2. Cheslav Tsursky
      Cheslav Tsursky 11 January 2019 15: 25
      -17
      Quote: izya top
      I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?

      Yes, what are you saying? Did you count the party nomenclature including all paid Komsomol functionaries with service staff? smile
      I liked the article. I think this is a completely truthful view of the revolution in general. If we consider them separately, then of course we can’t do without small-town specifics ... The only thing I want to add to the author is that all revolutions necessarily end with the division of property, theft, theft and the sale quickly and cheaply! And all utopias i.e. the revolutionary struggle for the benefit of people is necessarily accompanied by the death of a significant part of these people, but the author said this.
      1. Victor Kamenev
        11 January 2019 15: 41
        -19
        So the war, especially civil, all - to plunder the winners. All wars because of this and begin.
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 11 January 2019 15: 45
          +20
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          Why is it fundamentally impossible to build the USSR-2?

          Arkhangelsk, Far East .. recall Kamenev? it’s not the Bolsheviks robbed ... it’s the Americans and Japanese, they killed and robbed.
          1. Mestny
            Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 33
            -6
            Now, after the new collapse of Russia. and the beginning of the construction of the USSR 2.0 - they certainly will not do this.
            They will stand on the border, and wait - while we are here on the mountain they will build a new socialism.
            ... Now we really have no choice. Any scrapping is certainly a death.
            1. Leave the Townhouse
              Leave the Townhouse 13 January 2019 01: 29
              +3
              Quote: Mestny
              ... Now we really have no choice. Any scrapping is certainly a death.

              A break? and chuck and unbeaten? Do you have a great idea, or Nisi grab? Awaken all Russia!
            2. sniperino
              sniperino 13 January 2019 08: 20
              -4
              Quote: Mestny
              ... Now we really have no choice. Any scrapping is certainly a death.
              There is always a choice, only the idea of ​​destroying the whole world of violence to the ground or a single country should be buried without honors. But the state ideology, which is based on the idea of ​​social justice, should be; and laws restricting the indefatigable appetites of the capitalist and protecting workers should be.
        2. igorbrsv
          igorbrsv 11 January 2019 16: 55
          -12
          I also liked your article. True, I think socialism is possible to build. But the price will be twenty years of poverty and devastation. This is if the external enemy is excluded. Do I need to build it now request
          I haven’t reached the handle yet recourse
          1. Claymore
            Claymore 11 January 2019 19: 05
            +4
            Quote: igorbrsv
            I think socialism is possible to build. But the price will be twenty years of poverty and ruin

            What is socialism and how much is the price of its construction?
            1. igorbrsv
              igorbrsv 11 January 2019 20: 10
              -2
              I will not look at the dictionaries now. For me, socialism: all power to the people; state land and natural resources; from each according to work, to each according to his deserts.
              The price of construction. The impossibility of building socialism without revolution and coup immediately. The inability to choose all the power structures for themselves for this. Stratification of society into two camps. External threats. Lack of a leader and a clear plan of action.
              When attempting a coup or revolution, a confrontation is inevitable even within the security forces, and even the people. Not even one with the others. Still harder.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2019 20: 30
                +4
                Quote: igorbrsv
                to everyone deserving.

                actually
                1. igorbrsv
                  igorbrsv 11 January 2019 20: 34
                  -5
                  Well, I have not read the original. And here it is because it is difficult to evaluate. I will be satisfied with merit and work
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2019 20: 53
                    +3
                    Quote: igorbrsv
                    And here it is because

                    well, truth for the sake of the people
                    1. igorbrsv
                      igorbrsv 11 January 2019 20: 56
                      -5
                      belay for what? Don't scare me
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2019 20: 58
                        +6
                        for life, but what are you talking about?
                      2. igorbrsv
                        igorbrsv 11 January 2019 21: 07
                        -5
                        Well, when you told each one "there", I thought that it was a unit of measurement unknown to me, such as one pood for each. Later I realized that it was necessary to reward everyone for their work, but “there were enough people,” I was a little scared. I think it's time for me to sleep drinks and it seems
              2. Claymore
                Claymore 12 January 2019 02: 33
                +6
                Quote: igorbrsv
                I will not look now dictionaries
                But it would be worth it.

                Stratification of society into two camps. External threats. Lack of a leader and a clear plan of action.
                When attempting a coup or revolution, a confrontation is inevitable even within the security forces, and even the people. Not even alone with others
                Socialism (Marxist, not yours) is a system of production relations, the essence of which is the distribution of goods "according to work," which is expressed in the exchange of equal amounts of labor expended on the production of goods and services.

                And as long as such a system of production relations does not exist (and at the present time it does not exist), society is split into two camps, which on a planetary scale generates external threats, and within states - confrontation within the people, divided into "robbed" the majority and the "plundering" minority.

                Thus, the price that you ascribe to the construction of socialism is in fact the price of the existence of capitalism and has nothing to do with socialism.
                1. WW2
                  WW2 12 January 2019 10: 06
                  -6
                  Quote: Claymore
                  Socialism (Marxist

                  Do not confuse people with terms. Marx did not exist socialism. He (and Ulyanov) called communism a social society.
                  Socialism is already an invention of Dzhugashvili.
                  Quote: Claymore
                  And as long as such a system of industrial relations does not exist (and at present it does not exist)

                  She will never exist. Marx is a Utopian Communist like Owen, Fourier, and Saint-Simon.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 10: 42
                    +3
                    Quote: WW2
                    Socialism is already an invention of Dzhugashvili.

                    The term "socialism" was first used in the work of Pierre Leroux, "Individualism and Socialism" (1834), you should study the theory yourself
                    1. WW2
                      WW2 12 January 2019 10: 47
                      -4
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      The term "socialism" was first used in the work of Pierre Leroux

                      Well, let there be "socialism in the USSR". Which actually had nothing in common with classical "socialism". Just the words are similar.
                  2. Claymore
                    Claymore 12 January 2019 10: 53
                    +3
                    Quote: WW2
                    Do not confuse people with terms. Marx did not exist socialism. He (and Ulyanov) called communism a social society.
                    Socialism, this is an invention of Dzhugashvili
                    This utopia, this doctrinaire socialism, subordinating the entire movement as a whole to one of its moments, replacing the aggregate, social production with the brain activity of an individual pedant, and, most importantly, eliminating in its imagination with the help of small tricks and great sentimentality the revolutionary struggle of the classes with all its necessary manifestations , this doctrinaire socialism in essence only idealizes modern society, gives a picture of it devoid of shadow sides and tries to realize its ideal contrary to the reality of the same society. And while the proletariat is giving way to this socialism to the petty bourgeoisie, and the struggle between the various socialist leaders reveals that each of the so-called systems is a pretentious emphasis on one of the transitional moments of a social revolution as opposed to the other, the proletariat is more and more united around revolutionary socialism, around communism, which the bourgeoisie itself dubbed the name Blanca. This socialism there is an announcement of a continuous revolution, the class dictatorship of the proletariat as a necessary transitional stage to the elimination of class differences in general, to the destruction of all production relations on which these differences rest, to the destruction of all social relations corresponding to these production relations, to the revolution in all the ideas arising from these public relations.

                    K. Marx, "The Class Struggle in France", Works, 2nd edition, v. 7, p. 91.

                    She will never exist
                    lol

                    1. WW2
                      WW2 12 January 2019 11: 05
                      -3
                      Quote: Claymore
                      unites around revolutionary socialism, around communism

                      So I say, the term "socialism" was used by Marx as a characteristic of communism. Leaning on the fact that communism is a social society.
                      "Soviet socialism" had nothing in common with social society and the classical understanding of the term "socialism".
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 12 January 2019 11: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: WW2
                        "Soviet socialism" with a social society

                        and with what?
                      2. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 12: 00
                        -3
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        and with what?

                        "Soviet socialism" is one of the varieties of slave-owning society functioning on a theocratic (not secular) basis.
                        There were a dime a dozen such "socialisms" on Earth in antediluvian times (at the dawn of centuries).
                        But there was also a peculiarity that "everything around the people, everything around me" (although everything around did not belong just to a co-citizen, but to the "state") did not tryndel in antediluvian times. And this was the main distinguishing feature of "Soviet socialism" from other slave societies.
                      3. Claymore
                        Claymore 12 January 2019 11: 30
                        +1
                        1.
                        From the quote I have quoted, it is obvious that the phrase "socialism did not exist in Marx" and "socialism, this is already an invention of Dzhugashvili" do not correspond to reality (to put it mildly).

                        2.
                        The concept of "social society" is a tautology and appears only in sociology textbooks of the lowest order.

                        And 3nd.
                        The concept of "classical understanding" does not exist in nature - there is the concept of "classical definition" (term).
                      4. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 12: 03
                        -1
                        Quote: Claymore
                        From the quote I quoted, it is obvious that the phrase "socialism did not exist in Marx" and "socialism, this is already an invention of Dzhugashvili" do not correspond to reality (to put it mildly).

                        I’m not going to write you the same thing 10 times. Can not understand the first time, read several times.
                        Quote: Claymore
                        The concept of "social society" is a tautology and appears only in sociology textbooks of the lowest order.

                        So then Marx's works are "low-profile sociology textbooks."
                        Quote: Claymore
                        The concept of "classical understanding" does not exist in nature - there is the concept of "classical definition" (term).

                        The definition still needs to be understood. And then you can easily see a fig in a book.

                        And one more thing. You end up with your verbiage. We perfectly understood what and who wanted to say. I see no reason to transfer the same eggs to empty, and in profile.
                      5. Claymore
                        Claymore 12 January 2019 13: 34
                        +1
                        Quote: WW2
                        I’m not going to write you the same thing 10 times
                        Very good - do not write this chukhnik 10 times.

                        So then the works of Marx are "low-profile textbooks of sociology"
                        Does not mean.

                        The definition still needs to be understood. And then you can easily see a fig in a book
                        Yes - but this does not in any way change the fact that the concept of "classical understanding" does not exist in nature.

                        We perfectly understood what and who wanted to say
                        Yes, because you made a statement in a plain text that is not true and I openly called this statement as untrue.
                      6. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 13: 37
                        -3
                        Quote: Claymore
                        Yes, because you made a statement in a plain text that is not true and I openly called this statement as untrue.

                        Well, they called, then they called. So they didn’t understand anything. Keep wandering in the darkness of Marxism-Leninism. But we do not need this crazy nonsense.
                      7. Cheslav Tsursky
                        Cheslav Tsursky 12 January 2019 14: 20
                        -2
                        Forgive me for interfering in your highly intellectual conversation. Little remark. Of course, you need to read Marx at least a little bit in order to actually realize what exactly they built or pretended for 70 years. Marx considered the community to be a natural way of life for a person, while denying private property if summarized. So he did not take into account a small detail. Communities that existed in time immemorial were tribal. That is, all members of the community were somehow relatives. With the development of communities, neighboring communities appear and, as a result, private property and classes ... This is actually the end of primitive socialism. In the USSR they tried to take on the responsibilities of the Lord God and raise a new type of person ... The task naturally turned out to be overwhelming. Utopia and Utopia!
                      8. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 15: 25
                        -1
                        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
                        Marx certainly need to read

                        What for eyes spoil yourself in vain?
                        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
                        In the USSR they tried to take on the responsibilities of the Lord God and raise a new type of person ... The task naturally turned out to be overwhelming. Utopia and Utopia!

                        Do not tell. A man of a new type (scoop) was brought up after all. The rest failed, but this miracle in places met quite densely. I think that for another 50-100 years of the existence of the USSR, the process would have been irreversible - the USSR would have died out of starvation, to a single person. But he would not refuse socialism.
                      9. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 09: 51
                        0
                        Quote: WW2
                        I think that for another 50-100 years of the existence of the USSR, the process would have been irreversible - the USSR would have died out of starvation, to a single person.
                        After the introductory word "I think" it is necessary to write with caution, otherwise all the nonsense that follows it may be interpreted in favor of the mental disorder of the writer. And the "scoop" was brought up in the 90s, although it can hardly be called a completely new type: the educators turned out to be non-creative anthropotechnicians, although they called themselves a "creative class".
                      10. WW2
                        WW2 13 January 2019 10: 56
                        0
                        Quote: sniperino
                        And the "scoop" was brought up in the 90s

                        Scoops were brought up for the first time much earlier. Right, many decades earlier.
                      11. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 11: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: WW2
                        For decades, right
                        Name two main features that distinguish your "scoop" from other "types of person" (what?).
                      12. WW2
                        WW2 13 January 2019 15: 53
                        0
                        Quote: sniperino
                        Name two main features that distinguish your "scoop" from other "types of person" (what?).

                        Of course, there are no external distinguishing features.
                        I do not like the word. And I use it only for brevity.
                        The Soviets are adherents of the pseudo-religious totalitarian sect "witnesses of socialism" (not to call them SS). With all the consequences from there. The USSR was generally a tough theocratic state. Despite his declared secularism. Only his pseudo-religion (Marxism-Leninism) he called ideology. Therefore, in every possible way he pinched the representatives of traditional religions. In fact, there was such a large sect.
                      13. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 16: 21
                        -1
                        Quote: WW2
                        in every possible way tormented representatives of traditional religions
                        Persistence in persecution glorifies believers. And you burned them right on the fires, in the sense, we were so sore that there were not a single temple or mosque in the district?
                      14. WW2
                        WW2 13 January 2019 16: 30
                        -2
                        Quote: sniperino
                        And you burned them right on the fires, in the sense, we were so sore that there were not a single temple or mosque in the district?

                        I hope you heard about the destroyed churches (mosques, synagogues, etc.) turned into warehouses and sheds?
                      15. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 17: 07
                        -1
                        You yourself probably believe in a bright capitalist future and mistakenly believe that you have the right to offend those who believe in the victory of communism or are nostalgic for socialism. It is in this quality of an insult, "not wasting time reading Marx," that you use this word. Whether you assert yourself or earn cookies, I'm not interested.
                      16. WW2
                        WW2 13 January 2019 17: 20
                        -1
                        Quote: sniperino
                        you have the right to insult those who believe in the victory of communism or are nostalgic for socialism.

                        What?
                        Quote: sniperino
                        It is in this quality of an insult, "not wasting time reading Marx", that you use this word.

                        I do not recommend it. Why spoil your eyes in vain?
                      17. sniperino
                        sniperino 15 January 2019 17: 54
                        0
                        Quote: WW2
                        Scoops were brought up for the first time much earlier.
                        A scoop is a person born in the USSR who was instilled in the 90s with a sense of his own inferiority in connection with his place of residence, clothes, work, salary, etc. To compensate for this unpleasant feeling, which, obviously, does not pass even in emigration, he begins to play a "liberal", spitting on everything that was in the USSR and calling everyone who has the slightest sympathy for this country, its people and way of life "scoops" , trying to show everyone that he is "non-soviet".
                      18. sniperino
                        sniperino 15 January 2019 18: 29
                        0
                        Quote: sniperino
                        Scoop is
                        PS Among the so-called. "sects of witnesses of communism" are true witnesses who in the USSR quietly studied, worked, enjoyed life, had no problems with the law, started a family, etc., but found themselves in a much worse position in the 90s. What is their "soviet"? In their assessment of the “animal grin of capitalism”? But if he is in many ways animalistic, despite the high-quality equipment.
                      19. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 19: 20
                        -1
                        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
                        With the development of communities, neighboring communities appear and, as a result, private property and classes
                        Here the jump is incomprehensible: why should the transition to the neighboring community also be a transition from the commune to private property?
                      20. Claymore
                        Claymore 12 January 2019 15: 13
                        +3
                        Quote: WW2
                        So they didn’t understand anything
                        What I didn’t understand - that this is not the first time you are trying to sniff out the ravings that “socialism did not exist in Marx”? lol

                        "Socialism is a positive self-consciousness of man, no longer mediated by the denial of religion, just as real life is the positive reality of man, no longer mediated by the denial of private property, by communism" (Marx)

                        "Socialism, since it became a science, requires that it be treated as a science, that is, to be studied" (Engels)

                        But you can "twist the hula hoop" a little more, although this will hardly help you save face. laughing
                      21. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 15: 27
                        -1
                        Quote: Claymore
                        What i didn't understand

                        That's all, I'm tired of explaining to you. If you do not understand something, then read my comments until you understand. Everything is written there.
                      22. Claymore
                        Claymore 12 January 2019 22: 50
                        +3
                        There is a chushatina written about the fact that "socialism is already an invention of Dzhugashvili" lol
                      23. WW2
                        WW2 12 January 2019 23: 00
                        -3
                        Quote: Claymore
                        There is a chushatina written about the fact that "socialism is already an invention of Dzhugashvili"

                        This "chushatina" Dzhugashvili announced in December 1927 at the XIV Congress of the CPSU (b).
                        And in 1936 it was announced that socialism in the USSR was basically built. What was enshrined in the Constitution of the USSR 1936
                        Learn the story.
                      24. Claymore
                        Claymore 13 January 2019 07: 06
                        +3
                        So declared, or invented. laughing

                        And what to do with Marx, for whom "socialism did not exist," but who wrote about socialism?
                      25. WW2
                        WW2 13 January 2019 10: 57
                        -4
                        Quote: Claymore
                        And what to do with Marx, for whom "socialism did not exist," but who wrote about socialism?

                        Read what I wrote on this topic to a full understanding. And do not distort.
                      26. Claymore
                        Claymore 13 January 2019 11: 28
                        +4
                        I read and gained a full understanding of what you wrote on this topic.

                        You wrote two main things:
                        1 "Socialism did not exist with Marx";
                        2 "Socialism is already an invention of Dzhugashvili".

                        After that, unsuccessfully turning your back, you added that in December 1927 at the XIV Congress of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) Dzhugashvili declared "this crap" - that is, announced that socialism was his invention.

                        In light of the foregoing, a logical question arises - are you in yourself?
                      27. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 12: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Claymore
                        are you inside
                        He just doesn't understand the word "invention". It would be better if I was beside myself.
                      28. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 13 January 2019 12: 52
                        +1
                        Quote: Claymore
                        In light of the foregoing, a logical question arises - are you in yourself?

                        Well then these trolls will understand
                      29. WW2
                        WW2 13 January 2019 15: 56
                        -2
                        Quote: Claymore
                        In light of the foregoing, a logical question arises - are you in yourself?

                        I have the same question for you. You obviously cannot or do not want to understand what I wrote about before. And I don’t tell you to repeat the same thing 10 times.
                        Although I think you all understand perfectly. But you want to "communicate". I don’t want to.
                        With a compromise, in short.
                      30. Claymore
                        Claymore 13 January 2019 21: 34
                        +1
                        1 It is customary to mark the question with interrogative meaning, intonation or a sign - they are not in your comment.

                        2 You wrote exactly what you wrote - what you meant and what alternative meaning you put in the literal meaning of your text that has been written.
                      31. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 11: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: Claymore
                        positive self-awareness no longer mediated by denial of religion
                        How do you interpret this post-atheistic self-consciousness of a communist, or how else can it be called?
                      32. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 13 January 2019 15: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: Claymore
                        "Socialism, since it became a science, requires that it be treated as a science, that is, to be studied" (Engels)

                        The subject - the political economy of socialism - has always been incomprehensible to me. As it turned out, Stalin, whose name was highlighted in black in the list of authors of the first textbook, considered the textbook "raw".
                        - "Without a theory, we will die" it concerned the political economy of socialism. In my opinion, no one fully understands it.
                      33. WW2
                        WW2 13 January 2019 15: 57
                        -2
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        "Without a theory, we will die" was precisely the political economy of socialism. In my opinion, no one fully understands it.

                        She is not anywhere else in the world. Fictional science. For ears drawn to the surrounding reality.
                        Type of scientific communism.
                        And an independent socio-economic formation "socialism".
                      34. Claymore
                        Claymore 13 January 2019 21: 40
                        +1
                        To understand (in a scientific sense) means to formulate, test by practice, and then to structure (what is called - put on the shelves), but this has not been done.
                      35. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 09: 03
                        -3
                        Quote: Claymore
                        the concept of "classical understanding" does not exist in nature
                        In nature, there are no concepts at all. But if someone wants to give his understanding the status of "classical", he simply limits the development of his mind, which is the essence of the development of concepts.
                      36. Claymore
                        Claymore 13 January 2019 12: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: sniperino
                        In nature, there are no concepts at all
                        This is a figurative expression.

                        Quote: sniperino
                        How do you interpret this post-atheistic self-consciousness of a communist, or how else can it be called?
                        As an objective perception, freed from the shackles of identifying one's own "I" with things and phenomena that are not part of this "I" - "pure self-awareness."
                      37. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 12: 33
                        -1
                        Is there a moment of denial of denial in this "release from the fetters"?
                      38. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 13: 23
                        -2
                        PS Denied by the bourgeois self-consciousness ("Kill the reptile!"), The medieval fetters of morality led to the spread of atheism, the separation of church from state. The inventor of socialism used this to bring about a revolution. Happened! Why in the country of "victorious socialism" needed an atheistic ideology? The inventor wrote that socialism is ALREADY NOT mediated by the denial of religion self-consciousness. The immorality of the top (there is an opportunity, there are no "fetters") and became, as I see it, the root cause of the collapse of the USSR. Gorbachev at the pinnacle of power is not an accident, but a natural result.
                      39. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 13: 37
                        -1
                        PPS Stalin made, it seems to me, an uncertain step on the path of socialist denial of denial on this issue, but Khrushchev turned back to bourgeois atheism.
                      40. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 13 January 2019 15: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: sniperino
                        PPS Stalin made, it seems to me, an uncertain step on the path of socialist denial of denial on this issue, but Khrushchev turned back to bourgeois atheism.

                        Stalin was just a man
                      41. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 18: 50
                        -1
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Stalin was just a man
                        With this, it is. In addition, Stalin was an Orthodox - he tried to live according to his faith, he also did not go to seminary because of his career opportunity to live richer, hanging others incomprehensible noodles on his ears, then, not finding answers to his questions in the seminary, he believed in Marxism and studied it better than many others, but there were no answers to any questions; and by the year 41, he probably reconciled the teachings of Christ and the teachings of Marx, but he was not ready to make public this denial of denial as the head of the state he had built. It would not be difficult to imagine what this could lead to among revolutionaries, participants in the Civil War and the Communists believing him: they would hardly see this as the development of self-awareness, but rather a double betrayal.
                      42. Claymore
                        Claymore 13 January 2019 22: 31
                        +2
                        Quote: sniperino
                        Is there a moment of denial of denial in this "release from the fetters"?
                        Marx writes that there is.

                        Quote: sniperino
                        PS Denied by the bourgeois consciousness ("Kill the reptile!") Medieval shackles
                        "Kill the reptile" is not a denied bondage.

                        The shackles denied by bourgeois consciousness constitute a hierarchy and rules — anything other than property.

                        Inventor of socialism
                        Marx did not invent socialism or even discover.

                        He also explored capitalism as a conclusion:
                        a) substantiated the inevitability of society coming to a state that is commonly called socialism;
                        b) substantiated that this state and the road to it will differ from the notions called utopian socialism.

                        Why in the country of "victorious socialism" needed an atheistic ideology?
                        It is not needed - it was not there (no one singled out the denial of the deity as a value).

                        But do not forget that consciousness is only a reflection of reality, manifested as a reaction to environmental stimuli, as a result of which changes in consciousness are always late for changes in the environment.

                        The immorality of the top (there is an opportunity, there are no "fetters") and became, as I see it, the primary cause of the collapse of the USSR
                        The USSR did not break up, but was purposefully dismantled.

                        And the reason is the petty-bourgeois nature of the consciousness of both the "upper" and "lower" classes, forcing the former to be grabbers, and the latter to be khataskrains.

                        Quote: sniperino
                        PPS Stalin made, it seems to me, an uncertain step on the path of socialist denial
                        As far as I can tell, in this regard, no rules have changed, and the actions did not go beyond what was originally declared.
                      43. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 13 January 2019 15: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Claymore
                        As an objective perception, freed from the shackles of identifying one's own "I" with things and phenomena that are not part of this "I" - "pure self-awareness."

                        can "self-contemplation" ???
                      44. Claymore
                        Claymore 13 January 2019 22: 41
                        +1
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        can "self-contemplation" ???

                        Contemplation = emotional, sensory sensation, the essence of the category of idealism.
                      45. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 13 January 2019 15: 26
                        0
                        Quote: sniperino
                        In nature, there are no concepts at all. But if someone wants to give his understanding the status of "classical", he simply limits the development of his mind, which is the essence of the development of concepts.

                        Rave. If you want to give your understanding the status of "classical", defend your doctoral dissertation, write a book, distribute it.
                      46. sniperino
                        sniperino 13 January 2019 21: 16
                        -1
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Quote: sniperino
                        In nature, there are no concepts at all. But if someone wants to give his understanding the status of "classical", he simply limits the development of his mind, which is the essence of the development of concepts.

                        Rave. If you want to give your understanding the status of "classical", defend your doctoral dissertation, write a book, distribute it.
                        And the fact that the era of classicism is long over does not bother you?
                      47. aybolyt678
                        aybolyt678 13 January 2019 23: 11
                        0
                        Quote: sniperino
                        And the fact that the era of classicism is long over does not bother you?

                        No. Classic is always the base. In any era. Only the way of expressing it with respect to the classics or without changes.
                      48. sniperino
                        sniperino 14 January 2019 13: 44
                        0
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Classic is always the base
                        Whose base is it? There is no universalism in science - no classics. This is not a base, but a haza.
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        with respect to the classics or without
                        The whole spectrum: from idolization to anathema, but eclecticism prevails, both ours and yours, because they have no time to discuss: departmental orders, "projects" need to be worked out, lectures must be read.
                      49. sniperino
                        sniperino 14 January 2019 14: 05
                        0
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        Classic is always the base
                        I understood! "Classics" is, in the sense of a method of communication, non-digital. Is there at least one platform on the Internet with a discussion without topicality, but at the cutting edge of science?
              3. free
                free 12 January 2019 09: 49
                +3
                Quote: igorbrsv
                I will not look at the dictionaries now. For me, socialism: all power to the people; state land and natural resources; from each according to work, to each according to his deserts.
                The price of construction. The impossibility of building socialism without revolution and coup immediately. The inability to choose all the power structures for themselves for this. Stratification of society into two camps. External threats. Lack of a leader and a clear plan of action.
                When attempting a coup or revolution, a confrontation is inevitable even within the security forces, and even the people. Not even one with the others. Still harder.

                So you don't need to look at dictionaries so that you can write many letters without understanding what is written, you need to read the primary sources to understand what you are writing about yourself! Your phrase "socialism for me" suggests that you are a terry opportunist, such as you killed the USSR.
                "Lack of a leader and a clear plan of action" is generally a masterpiece, would you at least think before writing this. Is there a leader now? Is the plan clear?
                Spill the words socialism, revolution without even understanding their meaning.
                1. sniperino
                  sniperino 14 January 2019 14: 41
                  0
                  Quote: free
                  you terry opportunist, such as you killed the USSR.
                  It is not necessary to cry that he was killed, but to think why the USSR was defeated, otherwise Russia would not be long.
                  1. free
                    free 15 January 2019 08: 19
                    0
                    Quote: sniperino
                    Quote: free
                    you terry opportunist, such as you killed the USSR.
                    It is not necessary to cry that he was killed, but to think why the USSR was defeated, otherwise Russia would not be long.

                    Nobody is crying! But the USSR was not defeated, it was betrayed, destroyed by those who were then in power. And many of them, their friends, relatives, are in power now. Why it became possible, too, and was voiced many times. including here in VO.
        3. free
          free 12 January 2019 09: 52
          +4
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          So the war, especially civil, all - to plunder the winners. All wars because of this and begin.

          Who begins these wars? Who are these people? What are their interests?
        4. Leave the Townhouse
          Leave the Townhouse 12 January 2019 23: 37
          +3
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          So the war, especially civil, all - to plunder the winners. All wars because of this and begin.

          Victor, do you have a lot in civilian knowledge?
      2. Ishenko Gennady Vladimirovich
        Ishenko Gennady Vladimirovich 11 January 2019 15: 55
        +20
        In this case, the literacy, the revolution was the collapse of the Union, when everyone plundered and plundered. And after the Great October Revolution, in the most difficult conditions and with the constant opposition of ALL Western countries, they made their country the second economy of the world. And the first - the United States did not fight on its territory and printed bucks as an international currency. They still have this freebie, I hope not for long.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 11 January 2019 16: 15
          -9
          With the opposition of all Western countries, is it when, with lightning speed with the Germans, they opened up full friendship to chewing gum, and then the American business incurred which was granted concessions?
        2. Cheslav Tsursky
          Cheslav Tsursky 12 January 2019 13: 04
          +1
          About the "opposition of ALL Western countries" it is especially interesting to consider this opposition in the light of industrialization ... Industrialization was carried out first with German funds, when factories were built in the USSR mainly for military purposes, and the finished products were actually divided, then the funds became American ... And in In both cases, specialists and even skilled workers were sent en masse to the USSR. Enterprises were often simply transported as a whole and installation was carried out on site. Examples - Magnitogorsk Iron and Steel Works, AZLK, Chelyabinsk Tractor, Uralmash, Gorky Automobile Plant ... Is there such opposition? Opposition Gennady Vladimirovich appears now, when sanctions are introduced in all directions. And with Germany and the United States, the USSR in allied mutually beneficial relations was with whom longer, with whom less ...
      3. Claymore
        Claymore 11 January 2019 18: 56
        +5
        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
        The only thing I would like to supplement the author with is that all revolutions necessarily end with the division of property, theft, theft and the sale quickly and cheaply!

        Exactly - the Neolithic revolution ended precisely with this. laughing
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 40
          -5
          How long did it last there, how many generations?
          1. Claymore
            Claymore 12 January 2019 02: 53
            +2
            Firstly, what difference does it make if the length of the period of revolution has not been worn out and cannot exist in relation to the declared section, stolen, plundered, and sold out?

            Second, it is 35 times smaller than the Paleolithic and its appendix.
            1. sniperino
              sniperino 14 January 2019 17: 51
              0
              Quote: Claymore
              what is the difference, if for the declared section, dragging, plundering and selling, the duration of the period of revolution does not have any and cannot have it?
              The difference is that the "Neolithic revolution" is such a metaphor; "scientific revolution" is a different metaphor, but at least some ideological struggle sometimes occurs there. If you don't leave the topic, then any political revolution brings devastation and brings up a lot of muddy foam.
              1. Claymore
                Claymore 14 January 2019 19: 22
                0
                The devastation and foam you mentioned are metaphors.

                A revolution is not a metaphor, but a term that refers to the relatively quick (compared to evolution) deep qualitative changes of a progressive nature occurring in public relations.

                Specifically, the Neolithic revolution was the transition from collecting to production, which led to the above changes.

                It should be noted that each revolution is a priori political in nature, because directly related to the interests of groups / classes.

                And the destruction that the revolution leads to is the destruction of previous social relations, and not material objects.
                1. sniperino
                  sniperino 14 January 2019 20: 32
                  0
                  Quote: Claymore
                  devastation and foam are metaphors
                  Devastation is not a metaphor, but war, stoppage of factories, factories, famine and plunder. And foam is a metaphor, but what else can you call Hodor and many other leaders from the 90s? Than the detachment that occupied the settlement, the soldiers of which burst into the church, mock the employees, repeatedly piercing the abbot with a bayonet, stabbing the fingers of the deacon with a knife, gouging out his eyes, just as brutally killing the third, and then leaving to "expropriate" the food from the population, different from a gang of the same size in 1918? She can take out the foam, otherwise there would have been no cleansing in the 30s (cleansing is also a metaphor).
                  1. Claymore
                    Claymore 15 January 2019 08: 37
                    -1
                    War is a massive armed conflict.
                    The shutdown of enterprises is a situation expressed in the cessation of production.
                    Hunger is a situation resulting in a lack of food, resulting in insufficient calorie intake.
                    Robbery is an open theft of another's property.
                    And devastation is the state of complete destruction.

                    You used the words "devastation" and "foam" in a figurative sense, designating with them the entire "assortment" of negative factors that may manifest themselves in their most acute form after the start of the revolution.
                    And words used in figurative meanings are called metaphors.


                    A revolution is a process of progressive change that destroys only the outdated - it cannot bring ruin or lead to it.
                    The reaction brings ruin (from lat. Re ... “against” + actio “action” - an action that arises in response to some kind of influence), trying to reverse the revolution and turn it into counter-revolution.


                    The events of the 90s and characters like Hodor have nothing to do with the revolution - in the 90s there was a counter-revolution.


                    The described hypothetical detachment can differ from the usual gang only in that the reason for its actions is the similar actions that occurred earlier, committed against the members of this detachment and their relatives, their political opponents, supported by worshipers.


                    But the foam is not carried out by the revolution, but by a reaction that manifests itself in this case through consciousness and stereotypes of behavior that have been inherited from the past.
                    1. sniperino
                      sniperino 15 January 2019 13: 23
                      0
                      Quote: Claymore
                      A revolution is a process of progressive change that destroys only the outdated - it cannot bring ruin or bring about it ... Events of the 90s and characters like Khodor have nothing to do with the revolution - in the 90s there was a counter-revolution.
                      Who and when determines the fact that the changes are progressive: the electorate, the workers of the strawberry farm, or each one for himself? And when should the fact of survival be ascertained? Is the USSR outdated? Destroyed as a state? The youth of the 60s and 80s for the most part did not know the names of the secretaries of the Central Committee of the Komsomol and other "leaders" (for some reason, they called functionaries in the localities for young people, "leaders" - educators for children and adolescents, although leaders for adults had already been canceled), and in the 80s, Tsoi became the idol of the youth, their hearts demanded changes. But the lower classes did not want to, and the upper classes could not ... could only betray. In tsarist Russia, there were no traitors at the top, or were there few? Or did they live in a friendly neighborhood? But Russia is alive, not completely destroyed, although whoever has not betrayed all the prerequisites for that, and it even resumed integration processes in the Eurasian space. If the enemies howl in chorus, then this is not because we are about to fall apart ourselves, as the alarmists shout, but on the contrary, otherwise they would only encourage us with cookies. And the Union will be with the ideology of social justice, since the idea of ​​profit and personal enrichment here does not go far, but it is definitely different.
      4. Cheslav Tsursky
        Cheslav Tsursky 12 January 2019 12: 50
        0
        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
        Yes, what are you saying? Did you count the party nomenclature including all paid Komsomol functionaries with service staff?

        You know, I am sincerely interested in what I wrote the truth. And as many as 20 people gave me cons. So I wonder if these people thought that I was lying or what ?! Or did they invent another USSR for themselves, or did they believe the storytellers? Yes, even in our battalion, while serving in the SA in 1988, there was a sergeant secretary of the Komsomol committee. Released by the way and received as much as 90 rubles. At the headquarters, he was given an office, and he accordingly chose a deputy friend for himself ... That whole day they did not do shit for themselves! We went somewhere to some kind of meeting. We held Komsomol meetings in the club - this was real flour and try to sleep! Then they finally got all annoyed by the fact that each company had to have a stand "Give it! Give it, perestroika!" How was it to be given? Who? And in general, no one knew what these stands should be. There was a proposal that, like, to cancel the formation and go to the dining room in a crowd ... But since our Komsomol members had a close friendship with a special officer, an extremely unpleasant person, no one insisted on rationalization proposals!
        I can also tell Mr. Ize about city officials about Soviet officials. regional committees, district committees ... At the same time, all ministries were supervised by individual representatives of higher party organizations with a whole staff, respectively. In the Moscow City Committee, for example, there were industry sectors and departments in charge of, say, construction. Those. as I understand it, the builders pointed out how to build a house in accordance with Marxism - Leninism? So, what are your disadvantages dear Bolsheviks, I attribute to your deep understanding of all this Soviet disorder, wastefulness of funds for the office apparatus and complete bureaucracy! Thank you for the attention.
        1. sniperino
          sniperino 13 January 2019 21: 45
          0
          Quote: Cheslav Czursky
          Soviet carelessness, wastefulness of funds for the party apparatus and complete bureaucracy
          Here the main problem is not to squander money, but that the eighth-grade Komsomol members could not meaningfully use the concepts of ideology by age, but they could use these concepts and this post itself in order to become a notch above classmates; careerists flowed there. Yakovlev, Gorbachev and the whole darkness of perestroika foam left the Komsomol.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 13 January 2019 23: 02
            0
            Quote: sniperino
            Here the main problem is not to squander money, but that the eighth-grade Komsomol members could not meaningfully use the concepts of ideology by age, but they could use these concepts and this post itself in order to become a notch above classmates; careerists flowed there. Yakovlev, Gorbachev and the whole darkness of perestroika foam left the Komsomol.

            This is true only at first glance ... but the key word in your comment is to meaningfully operate the concepts of ideology. The fact is that after the death of Comrade Stalin, at the top of the government, there were no ideologically minded people ... The country's leader was the main ideologist. He was not interested in individualistic people, even if successful, he was interested in observing the results of collective labor. The most adequate, best, leader of a socialist country was a man who put his life in the service of his country. Many, even careerists, were forced to copy his manner of running the country and as a result there was growth. With the departure of Stalin, power was seized by people who did not understand the essence but who repeated common dogmas, which from frequent repetition lost their meaning and were rejected by the consciousness of normal people, but, accordingly, eight-graders smile
            an individual decision is better than a collegiate one, in that there are no compromises characteristic of the group.
            1. sniperino
              sniperino 14 January 2019 18: 51
              0
              Quote: aybolyt678
              This is true only at first glance ... but the key word in your comment is to meaningfully operate the concepts of ideology. The fact is that after the death of Comrade Stalin, at the top of the government, there were no ideologically minded people
              With this post I am almost ready to agree, if not for this contradiction. If even among adults who were not the most stupid people who stood in high positions in the administration of the USSR, there were no ideologically thinking ones, then what is "true only at first glance"? If instead of the words "here the main problem is not squandering funds, but ..." you write that the most massive flow of careerists to the authorities was organized through the Komsomol agents, and this is more important than funds, will you not argue?
              PS I accidentally poked a minus, now I’ll return it somewhere.
    3. Disorder
      Disorder 11 January 2019 16: 03
      -12
      In the USSR, the party nomenclature was unmeasured.
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 13 January 2019 23: 05
        +1
        Quote: Trouble
        In the USSR, the party nomenclature was unmeasured.

        measured. and easily counted. And the party nomenclature did not allow large distortions in the field. The whole collapse went from the top.
        1. Disorder
          Disorder 14 January 2019 15: 11
          0
          Quote: aybolyt678
          And the party nomenclature did not allow large distortions in the field.

          If she herself did not cause these distortions.
          Quote: aybolyt678
          The whole collapse went from the top.

          And what was up there? And at the top were the Congress and the Central Committee of the CPSU.
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 14 January 2019 08: 16
        -1
        Quote: Trouble
        In the USSR, the party nomenclature was unmeasured.

        NOW IT IS NOT FOR that in every region a crowd of ministries and ministers
    4. New Year day
      New Year day 11 January 2019 16: 05
      +15
      Quote: izya top
      Why was the number of officials throughout the Union less than in today's Russia?

      because family ties and corruption make it possible to expand this apparatus, perhaps even ad infinitum.
      1. igorbrsv
        igorbrsv 11 January 2019 16: 59
        0
        In this case, this is - all power to the people wassat
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 11 January 2019 17: 15
          +7
          Quote: igorbrsv
          In this case, this is - all power to the people

          Well, not everyone can be officials! Someone needs to work!
          1. igorbrsv
            igorbrsv 11 January 2019 17: 35
            +6
            I’ll think about politics ...
            Well, no. I’d better go and work, otherwise bad thoughts will start to go into my head drinks
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 11 January 2019 17: 41
              +2
              Quote: igorbrsv
              I’ll think about politics ...
              Well, no. I'd rather go work,

              about politics it’s better to talk about beer with fish
              1. Consultant
                Consultant 11 January 2019 17: 45
                -8
                Quote: Silvestr
                about politics it’s better to talk about beer with fish

                This is only if you know how to talk with fish wink laughing
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 11 January 2019 17: 49
                  +2
                  Quote: Consultant
                  This is only if you know how to talk with fish

                  and if there is not much beer
    5. Vlad5307
      Vlad5307 11 January 2019 16: 20
      -6
      Well, that’s the logical result of the bourgeois revolution, made once again according to recipes from the mound, both in February 1917 and in October 1917! So revolution is a tool to destroy a competitor, in the simplest case. hi
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 11 January 2019 16: 49
        +11
        Quote: Trouble
        In the USSR, the party nomenclature was unmeasured.

        less than now at times.
    6. Underwater hunter
      Underwater hunter 11 January 2019 19: 35
      +1
      Quote: iza top
      I am interested in one question: why was the number of officials in the entire Union less than in today's Russia?

      This is just one of the indicators that clearly characterize modern Russia.
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 11 January 2019 15: 15
    +13
    There are a lot of questions, but the answer is, as it were, one - People want in a fair society! - further the field for discussion, disagreement .... they don’t see the end of the region!
    1. Hypersound
      Hypersound 11 January 2019 15: 26
      +17
      So in the West, the "just society" is only for the reason that so far they dominate and rob the whole world. Their dominance will end and their standard of living will plummet
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 11 January 2019 20: 23
        +4
        Quote: Hypersound
        So in the West, the "just society" is only for the reason that so far they dominate and rob the whole world. Their dominance will end and their standard of living will plummet

        And let's not consider everyone in the west as stupid. They learned to do things differently, and hold on to this, despite their many misconduct and decisions, which we consider to be not very smart ....
        Time will judge us and them .... if we survive, all together, of course.
        1. Hypersound
          Hypersound 11 January 2019 20: 41
          +2
          Did I write about their stupidity? Genius and villainy - two things are completely compatible
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 11 January 2019 20: 55
            +2
            They actually learned to rob, but so, if they don’t say thanks to them, they don’t directly blame them. This is the skill of prestidigitating, building illusions .... they will not fall apart, they will not go bankrupt in a simple and quick way, unless they themselves begin to do stupid things.
    2. Victor Kamenev
      11 January 2019 15: 52
      -4
      But really? ... Why can't people live rightly even in their own family, with their relatives. They gnaw in politics, divide square meters and money, more than half of families fall apart ... Do not idealize people, it always ends badly, well, if not by the Lynch Court, which is also popular, and even civilized.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 11 January 2019 16: 08
        +17
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        Why can't people live righteously even in their family, with their relatives.

        it depends on the upbringing of the family, the relationship to each other
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        They bite as in politics, divide square meters and money, more than half of the families split up ..

        so what dozung moved - "Get rich !!!". So they kill each other, but not comparable to a communist / socialist day. Then - "Man is man's friend, comrade and brother."
        Previously, it was possible to travel around the Union without fear to where the hosh was, and now to go across Russia - you think!
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 11 January 2019 20: 35
          +5
          Quote: Silvestr
          "Man is man's friend, comrade and brother."

          So far, no one has been able to radically change the nature of man ..... forcible correction is not for long and under special special conditions!
          The time has not come, the world should change radically, the person has not matured, t.s. ..... it will happen, naturally, evolve, but it will be later.
          1. Mestny
            Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 44
            -6
            So, sprouts of a new civilization - gender differences are erased, the institution of the family in the classical sense is leaving, openness, mobility, and the broadest access to information are in fashion.
            What is not a new civilization for you?
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 13 January 2019 15: 31
              +1
              Quote: Mestny
              What is not a new civilization for you?

              this is not a new civilization .. this is the sunset of the old
              1. Mestny
                Mestny 13 January 2019 15: 34
                -2
                Before the arrival of the new, the old always sets in.
                You can choose which explanation of these processes is closer to you.
                However, I do not claim. that this is precisely the beginning of a new civilization. It is likely that civilizations, in principle, cannot be replaced without destruction and cataclysms, such as global wars.
            2. WW2
              WW2 13 January 2019 16: 01
              -2
              Quote: Mestny
              gender differences are erased, the institution of the family in the classical sense is leaving, openness, mobility, and the broadest access to information are in fashion.
              What is not a new civilization for you?

              Maybe you are right.
              But all this is scary.
              Especially modern gender relationships.
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 11 January 2019 16: 28
        +14
        Quote: Victor Kamenev

        Really? ... Why can't people live righteously even in their own family?

        Yes, sir, you simply do not know life, if you think so. People were deliberately divided by property qualification. In the family, any scandals and quarrels flare up only on the basis of a miserable existence.
        Can you say why the state pays for equal work of equal-duty public sector workers in different ways? This was not the case in the USSR, the size of the salary varied depending on the climatic zones and "savagery". And now what happens? By creating relative political calm in Moscow, the government keeps salaries 3-4 times higher than in the regions. What for? Why should beggars pay for the capital's lust and depravity?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 11 January 2019 18: 07
          -7
          Moscow pays for itself - all the same, the GDP of Moscow and the region is 27 trillion rubles a year, and salaries are 3-4 times higher, in Moscow it’s good if one third of the population receives it.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 11 January 2019 20: 48
            +5
            Tales about the "hard worker" have been told about the capital for a long time. Earlier, just a grain of truth was a little more ... now only to examine in a microscope or wear rose-colored glasses.
            1. Mestny
              Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 49
              -5
              Such a property division between the capital and the regions is by the way the clearest evidence of the fundamental inequality of individual members of society.
              It is impossible to change, at least in the next couple of centuries.
              And this "metropolitan" phenomenon is just a consequence of the actions of people with different qualities. Competition.
              By the way, the same picture was in the USSR. the truth is somewhat smoothed by a powerful ideological apparatus, which assured that all people are equal.
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 12 January 2019 11: 56
              -4
              And this is for yours - however, in Moscow there are about 1000 institutes, design bureaus, tens of thousands of industries - everything from pins, to the production of TVEL nuclear fuel - at the Kashirsky Chasse, Kamov helicopters, satellites, etc. - but even more is the service sector, probably 60 percent of the total GDP of Moscow and the region for the year.
        2. rocket757
          rocket757 11 January 2019 20: 44
          +4
          Quote: ROSS 42
          People were deliberately divided by property qualification. In the family, any scandals and quarrels flare up only on the basis of a miserable existence.

          This was \ is \ will be everywhere and always, and poverty is only one of the reasons. The degree \ multiplicity varies, also for various reasons. Such a society has never been built by anyone, nor has Schob found any reason for disagreement! A person is not ready yet, has not grown to such a thing.
          It will be, most likely, but then, if a person does not stop in his development.
        3. sniperino
          sniperino 13 January 2019 22: 31
          -1
          Quote: ROSS 42
          In the family, any scandals and quarrels flare up only on the basis of a miserable existence.
          So Abramovich and his wife divorced ... Beggar.
      3. rocket757
        rocket757 11 January 2019 20: 25
        +4
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        people cannot live fair

        People live differently .... and there are more than one reasons for that.
      4. free
        free 12 January 2019 09: 39
        +3
        Quote: Victor Kamenev
        But really? ... Why can't people live rightly even in their own family, with their relatives. They gnaw in politics, divide square meters and money, more than half of families fall apart ... Do not idealize people, it always ends badly, well, if not by the Lynch Court, which is also popular, and even civilized.

        So tell us why do you think people squabble for square meters? Why do they divide meters in the parking lot? Why are they overwhelmed by loans? Why do families break up?
        You are trying to use these phenomena of public life as proof of your innocence without explaining their occurrence, which is fundamentally wrong. We are waiting for your comments.
  4. Loess
    Loess 11 January 2019 15: 16
    -3
    and if Russia survives a new revolutionary turning point and at the same time reflects the external threat of the United States and NATO, some fundamentally unpredictable Russia will be born today. Unless, of course, survives, which is not a fact.

    Very sober remark. Just not everyone thinks about it.
    1. Altona
      Altona 11 January 2019 15: 24
      +17
      Quote: Less
      and if Russia survives a new revolutionary turning point and at the same time reflects the external threat of the United States and NATO, some fundamentally unpredictable Russia will be born today. Unless, of course, survives, which is not a fact.

      Very sober remark. Just not everyone thinks about it.
      Reply
      Quote
      A complaint

      ---------------------------------
      The homeland will be defended by the Reds. The guards will protect only the oligarchs. The oligarchs will sit quietly in neutral Switzerland. Or do you think everyone will sit in one trench?
      1. Loess
        Loess 11 January 2019 15: 41
        -9
        Quote: Altona
        The homeland will be defended by the Reds. The guards will protect only the oligarchs. The oligarchs will sit quietly in neutral Switzerland. Or do you think everyone will sit in one trench?

        I believe that both "red" and "guard" and "green" and others - yes, will sit in the same trenches. Just like in some trenches there will be a manager with a plumber, and a tractor driver with a limousine driver. Most because there is such a concept - Homeland. Some part because everyone will be "rowing". The oligarchs won't turn up. What's the point with them? But even in Switzerland there will be only those who will be there at the moment when everything starts. Then no one will choose. I think there is no point in envy for those who find themselves outside the borders of neutral countries. And those who will stay here ... It is unlikely that they will be fooled for a long time. They will find where to attach. It is hard to believe in stupid oligarchs, and good brains in a difficult one for the good of the Motherland will only work for the good. Only supervision is needed.
        Quote: Altona
        The homeland will be defended by the Reds.

        And one more thing ... Do you really think that after the revolution, it will be easier for those who survived, no matter the "red" or the "guards", to defend the Motherland (or what remains of it) alone? The enemy will not become weaker during this time. On the contrary ...
        1. Altona
          Altona 11 January 2019 15: 49
          +14
          Quote: Less
          Do you really think that after the revolution, it will be easier for those who survived, no matter the "red" or the "guard", to defend the Motherland (or what will remain of it) alone? The enemy will not become weaker during this time. On the contrary ...

          --------------------------------------
          Once again, do not confuse revolution and civil war. Rich owners will impose it on you in any way. I believe that with such a situation as it is now, the Homeland will not soon remain with us even within the framework of the former RSFSR. The USSR, as a homeland, we have already lost. Now for the bourgeoisie it is no longer important whether or not the Russian Federation remains. They spit on the people from a large bell tower and this is their common position, not single reservations.
          1. Loess
            Loess 11 January 2019 16: 04
            -7
            Quote: Altona
            The USSR, as a homeland, we have already lost.

            For some, the Russian Empire was the homeland. She was lost too. And the USSR was built on its wreckage. And it was also difficult. Build.
            Quote: Altona
            Now for the bourgeoisie it is no longer important whether or not the Russian Federation remains.

            I don’t care what is important for the bourgeoisie and what is not. I have no other homeland. Nobody is waiting for me abroad, and I myself do not aspire there. Therefore, to the best of my abilities and capabilities I will equip the homeland that exists. I did not choose her. I just have it.
            Quote: Altona
            Once again, do not confuse revolution and civil war. Rich owners will impose it on you in any way.

            That is precisely why I am against the revolution. There was not a single revolution after which Russia would immediately become stronger. It was always first to break everything - and then rebuild. And now, I’m afraid, they will not be able to rebuild. Therefore, if you want to change the system, power, whatever - change through evolution, not shocks.
        2. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 11 January 2019 16: 31
          +5
          Quote: Less
          And yet ... do you really think that after the revolution, those who survive, it doesn't matter "red" or "guards", to defend the Motherland (or what will be left of it) will it be easier alone? The enemy will not become weaker during this time.

          One thing is clear, if they take less from the cordon from Russia, it will be much easier. How to do it? Easier than they are talking about at SPIEF. Much easier.
      2. igorbrsv
        igorbrsv 11 January 2019 15: 52
        +2
        The "guards" will go ahead of us. They are the same citizens. They have the same wives and children. And the oligarchs are a woman with a cart it is easier for a mare
        1. Dmitry Zarutsky
          Dmitry Zarutsky 12 January 2019 02: 05
          +2
          Quote: igorbrsv

          The "guards" will go ahead of us.

          And to whom do you consider yourself? Sorry)
          1. igorbrsv
            igorbrsv 12 January 2019 02: 10
            +4
            To a military citizen of the Russian Federation
            1. Dmitry Zarutsky
              Dmitry Zarutsky 12 January 2019 02: 26
              +3
              Then I have no complaints, but I doubt that computer bots will go ahead of us) Even, for example, in the dill, the National Bats (still real, not virtual people, though frostbitten) shout most of all, but they aren’t on the front line, oddly enough ))) But where you can get something to eat - here they are first) the guards on the forums, in my opinion, from the same opera, just hide in the virtual machine. And on the dill frontier, ordinary contract soldiers, conscripts 9 (it’s not strange) and variegated comrade soldiers of fortune from around the world, by the way, there are a lot of dashing snipers among them. Something like this...
              1. igorbrsv
                igorbrsv 12 January 2019 02: 43
                +3
                Maybe. I have not been to war. I will not call myself a daredevil. But if they say it is necessary, then it is necessary. Had to say goodbye to life more than once
      3. Victor Kamenev
        11 January 2019 15: 57
        -19
        Who are the Reds? Communist Party with strawberry-red Gridinin, deputy Voronchenkov, who fell in Kiev in a gangster showdown? Generals and soldiers Karbyshevs will always just defend Russia, Gumilev defended Russia, is he also "red"?
        1. Altona
          Altona 11 January 2019 16: 00
          +15
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          Who are the Reds? The Communist Party of the Russian Federation with strawberry-red Gridinin, deputy Voronchenkov, who fell in Kiev in a gang war?

          ---------------------------
          The Communist Party is a systemic opposition, that is, an element of the current government. Does the current government embed in its system those who really threaten it? Do you want like in Paris? laughing
          1. igorbrsv
            igorbrsv 11 January 2019 17: 58
            -4
            In my opinion, no one here is against socialism. Is the question now? And what is the action plan? I don’t care who collects the meeting and throws it into the embrasure. Who will manage this and does he have a clear plan of action and expected consequences? It would be so, perhaps in one trench we will find ourselves, and you, and Less, and Kamenev, and the rest. I would not like it posthumously
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 13 January 2019 12: 33
              -2
              The main question is what socialism will be like in the current realities — well, they will shake 2 trillion rubles from all businessmen every year for the needs of the state, but one hell will not change anything, salaries will not be anymore, as well as pensions, even if they reduce 60% all the officials, the locksmith Uncle Vasya, both drank and scored for work, will drink and hammer, will the products get cheaper - no, gas will be cheaper - why would the state take 70% of the cost of gas for the same expenses, one fig not enough for everyone and someone will have to sacrifice.
        2. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 11 January 2019 16: 37
          +10
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          Communist Party with Strawberry Red Gridinin

          Why are you, the namesake of a not-so-good person, distorting the names of people who have not done anything bad for the country? Was Gumilev bequeathing to you? He left:
          On the walls of an empty house
          Cold shadows run through
          And powerless gnomes cry
          In the silence of their new possessions ...

          ... their sick and weak bodies
          Trembling in longing and languor
          Since the owner was gone
          In this formerly laughing house.

          The dusk of the rooms of abandoned souls
          The silence is sadder with every moment
          Their owner was strangled by them.
          In the dark of a gothic bedroom.

          1. sniperino
            sniperino 14 January 2019 19: 07
            0
            Quote: ROSS 42
            Was Gumilev bequeathing to you?
            It was about the son of the author of lines so disagreeable to you, but it is the same for you, that science, that poetry.
        3. Campanella
          Campanella 11 January 2019 17: 43
          +5
          You don’t seem to understand, Russia is a people! The people in their time chose the red project and now many people support it. I decipher the red project is social justice first of all, and then everything else and democracy and freedom.
          1. Mestny
            Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 54
            -4
            What do you think of social justice? In two sentences.
            Take everything from the oligarchs, and honestly share?
            1. Campanella
              Campanella 12 January 2019 00: 31
              +2
              "A just person and a just society are those who can find a moral measure in the distribution of benefits and hardships, and such a measure that suits everyone and for which the consent of those whose share bears the most hardships is obtained can be considered moral."
        4. free
          free 12 January 2019 19: 11
          -1
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          Who are the Reds? Communist Party with strawberry-red Gridinin, deputy Voronchenkov, who fell in Kiev in a gangster showdown? Generals and soldiers Karbyshevs will always just defend Russia, Gumilev defended Russia, is he also "red"?

          It’s just that Russia doesn’t and cannot be, don’t try to substitute concepts! What is Russia simply, it is Russia that does not have a single sign, there is not a single characteristic feature. Is it really so? Not at all! Ask anyone and you will be called many Russia is weak politically and economically, high taxes with low salaries and beggarly pensions, theft and embezzlement of money, nepotism and drugs with prostitution, lawlessness and omnipotence of oligarchs and bureaucrats, children are treated by the country through SMS, territorial concessions, active monopolization of all sectors of the economy monuments to enemies are so enemies for the overwhelming majority (and this is betrayal), etc. Are these not characteristic features indicating that it is not just Russia, it is bourgeois Russia. But it has become so not by itself, but by the efforts of a certain circle of persons. Summing up, Russia is simply impossible, because simply power is not possible! Power rules Russia and this power is a damned, insatiable bourgeois.
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 15 January 2019 13: 42
            0
            Quote: free
            Russia, this is bourgeois Russia
            Is China a bourgeois China, or is this sign far from paramount for the Chinese, and they do not notice any regression, and unifiedly identify their homeland in history as a cultural-state entity, despite the change in its territorial borders and political regimes?
            1. free
              free 15 January 2019 19: 40
              -1
              Quote: sniperino
              Quote: free
              Russia, this is bourgeois Russia
              Is China a bourgeois China, or is this sign far from paramount for the Chinese, and they do not notice any regression, and unifiedly identify their homeland in history as a cultural-state entity, despite the change in its territorial borders and political regimes?

              What do you know about China except that it is bourgeois?
        5. sniperino
          sniperino 14 January 2019 19: 16
          0
          Quote: Victor Kamenev
          Who are the Reds? The Communist Party of the Russian Federation with strawberry-red Gridinin, deputy Voronchenkov, who fell in Kiev in a gang war?
          I have long had a suspicion that Mr. Grudinin donated money to the site and put it here. watching the administrator of his person so that the bots do not dump.
      4. Vadim237
        Vadim237 11 January 2019 18: 12
        -5
        And all the frustrated revolutionaries and any rabble will be crushed by trucks, armored personnel carriers and special equipment - since these guys have no use for the state and society.
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 11 January 2019 23: 58
          -8
          So it will be too late, crush. The country will be gone.
          Many of them will then tear their hair on themselves - how did it happen, we were sure that we were fighting evil.
          But - it will be too late. And then the west will finally breathe freely. The centuries-old spiritual enemy can finally be finally finished off.
          And those former "revolutionaries, who are smarter, will be able to partially leave for the victorious civilization. And how parsley at the fair will surprise the Western public with deep Russian culture. Bleating at the same time about the tragic history of wars in general and the need to get rid of them. And the Western public and Western scientists they will agree with them, and say that now there will be no wars, but there will be continuous development, and cities on Mars, and they will also lament what great culture humanity has lost, and how it is necessary to preserve its remains in museums.
          1. Campanella
            Campanella 12 January 2019 00: 39
            +3
            Do you think the revolutionaries are bad? They destroy everything. You understand the danger of revolution, but oligarchs and officials do not understand. And they don’t see where the country is heading. Are you sure that if everything is as the oligarchs want, the country will be able to survive? So I'm not sure they will sell it without revolution.
            1. Dmitry Zarutsky
              Dmitry Zarutsky 12 January 2019 02: 12
              +4
              Quote: Campanella
              Do you think the revolutionaries are bad? They destroy everything. You understand the danger of revolution, but oligarchs and officials do not understand. And they don’t see where the country is heading. Are you sure that if everything is as the oligarchs want, the country will be able to survive? So I'm not sure they will sell it without revolution.

              The oli