Military Review

Tupolev is preparing to start creating prototypes of PAK DA "Messenger"

234
Today news agency Interfax citing a source, reports that in the near future Tupolev’s specialists will begin to create the first prototypes of the future long-range aircraft aviation. We are talking about the implementation of the PAK DA project.


Tupolev is preparing to start creating prototypes of PAK DA "Messenger"


It is noted that the creation of prototypes of the promising airline begins at the beginning of 2019. For this, the transfer of the necessary design documentation to the Kazan Aviation Plant is in full swing.

From the material:
Construction will begin in the coming months.


The task that Tupolev specialists must solve is the final creation of a long-range aviation complex, which will allow replacing such aircraft as the Tu-95, Tu-160 and Tu-22М3.

It is known that the designers stopped at the version of the PAK DA version in the “flying wing” configuration. In other words, the aircraft will have no tail. In the internal compartments, the ADP DA should eventually carry a greater load of armaments than the current means of long-range aviation of the Russian Federation Air Force. One of the types of weapons that will carry the PAK YES - hypersonic missile systems. Earlier it was reported that we can talk about the modification of the "Dagger". In this case, the aircraft itself will be subsonic.

Last year, the government of the Russian Federation announced plans for the promising missile carrier to carry out the first flight in the 2026 year, and to go into the series in the 2029.

The original name of the project, which was first talked about in relation to the development of long-range aircraft, was “Messenger”.
Photos used:
s30132484561.mirtesen.ru, Air & Cosmos
234 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 8 January 2019 11: 55
    +43
    PAK YES "Messenger"
    Always liked the names of our projects.
    which will replace such aircraft as the Tu-95, Tu-160 and Tu-22M3.
    Well, the first two are still clear, but the last two are not very good. Did this plane have its SPECIAL tasks, to combat the same AUG, will the "Messenger" take it upon itself?
    1. aszzz888
      aszzz888 8 January 2019 11: 58
      +18
      ... indeed, the name with subtext ... good
      1. Egorovich
        Egorovich 8 January 2019 12: 08
        +34
        A "messenger" can bring both pacification and an end to other people's dreams of aggression. The name impressed, with meaning !!!
        1. Machito
          Machito 8 January 2019 12: 32
          +8
          The messenger. Cool. Such a plane can appoint the US ambassador and send directly to ..... you know where. laughing
          1. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 9 January 2019 00: 35
            +2
            You can also call a diplomat.
            It will definitely have serious arguments for the non-negotiable ...
        2. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 9 January 2019 10: 14
          +3
          Messenger .... hmm. And in Greek - an angel! A title with a lot of subtexts.
        3. Stalinist
          Stalinist 9 January 2019 12: 24
          -7
          But in reality it will bring support to Middle Eastern dictators in the fight against their people and help in the capture of neighboring weaker countries.
          1. SASHA OLD
            SASHA OLD 10 January 2019 02: 58
            0
            catch the addict! wassat
      2. 210ox
        210ox 8 January 2019 12: 10
        +8
        Especially "Courier" and "Liner" ... wassat
        1. Random
          Random 8 January 2019 12: 16
          +1
          Quote: 210ox
          Especially "Courier" and "Liner" ...


          And what about "Storm" and "Leader"? wink
          1. kjhg
            kjhg 8 January 2019 16: 50
            +1
            Quote: Random
            Quote: 210ox
            Especially "Courier" and "Liner" ...


            And what about "Storm" and "Leader"? wink

            And which of them exists, except for the name, at least in the proe?
            1. Random
              Random 8 January 2019 21: 37
              +3
              Quote: kjhg
              And which of them exists, except for the name,

              And which of these "products" exist ..... "Courier" and "Liner" ..
              So my koment .....
      3. New Year day
        New Year day 8 January 2019 12: 37
        +19
        Quote: aszzz888
        .. really, the name with subtext ..

        those who come up with the names of our military equipment are witty people:
        152 mm self-propelled gun "Hyacinth",
        "Peony" - self-propelled guns with a 203-mm gun 2A44,
        Tulip - 240 mm self-propelled mortar,
        Self-propelled guns 2S1 "Carnation",
        2С3 "Acacia",
        82-mm automatic mortar 2B9 "Cornflower",
        UAZ-3150 car "Shalun",
        ship radar MR-352 "Positive",
        23mm Hi rubber bullet.
        body armor "Visit",
        grenade launcher "Option",
        Infantry Shovel "Excitement",
        handcuffs "Tenderness",
        light and noise grenade "Ecstasy".
        1. KOCMOC
          KOCMOC 8 January 2019 12: 44
          +40
          From the Internet, old but relevant ...
          See for yourself ... It seems that our developers of military equipment and weapons are a little scoffing at their foreign colleagues. In the sense of assigning the names of the military equipment they create.
          Here Germany has a Leopard tank. Israel - "Merkava" (War chariot). America has the Abrams tank, France the Leclerc tank, both in honor of the famous generals. What about us? We have a T-72B “Slingshot”. In honor of the slingshot. It is not clear why, but it is clear that KVN could only be born with us.

          Or, for example, the Americans take and call their self-propelled howitzer "Paladin." And the British call their "Archer" (Archer). All the way. Here our people come up and say: look here. These are self-propelled howitzers 2C1 Gvozdika, 2C3 Akatsiya, self-propelled mortar 2C4 Tulip and long-range self-propelled guns 2C5 Hyacinth and 2C7 Peony, capable of firing nuclear shells. Please smell the bouquet.

          Here the Americans take and call their anti-tank guided missile "Dragon." And the other is called "Shillaila" (Club). Everything is logical. Here ours are drawn again and say: take a look. Here are the 9M14M Malyutka anti-tank missiles, the 9M123 Chrysanthemum anti-tank missiles, and the Metis anti-tank missiles with the Mulat night sight. And so that it would become completely incomprehensible and scary to you, we still had a rocket called "Edge".

          And to give you even more thought, we called the heavy tank support vehicle "Frame"
          And so that your head is spinning, we called the latest coastal defense missile system “Ball”.
          And so that you have an idiotic smile on your turnip, our most powerful 30-barrel self-propelled flamethrower in the world is called TOS-1 "Pinocchio".
          And so that you can be taken away right now to the madhouse, our GP-30 grenade launcher has the name “Shoe”.
          From the last, even I, a habitual person, get fucked up ...
          And if something, that is, another 82 mm automatic mortar 2B9 "Cornflower", company mortar 2B14 "Tray", mortar 2C12 "Sani", active wire guard system "Cactus" (5 volts on the wire), intercontinental ballistic missile "Courier "With a nuclear charge, intercontinental ballistic missile RT-000 UTTH" Molodets "with ten nuclear charges ... Also, a nuclear submarine of project 23" Lira ", artillery fire control system" Kapustnik ", artillery radar target detection system" Zoo ", container control system Phantasmagoria rockets, the Condenser self-propelled gun and a grenade for the 705P7 “Foundling” grenade launcher.
          laughing
          1. Hypersound
            Hypersound 8 January 2019 13: 42
            +7
            Another submarine "Losharik" :)
          2. Slinqshot
            Slinqshot 8 January 2019 14: 25
            +4
            The freshness of alpine grasses smelled. As I understand it, such ancient button accordions will be forgiven for the sake of pluses.
            1. Antiliberast
              Antiliberast 9 January 2019 03: 24
              0
              Quote: Slinqshot
              As I understand it, such ancient button accordions will be forgiven for the sake of pluses.

              How much anger is that. Be more tolerant and remember the age of the majority of those participating here, sclerosis, because he is merciless and ranks, and even more so does not ask for a position lol
              1. Slinqshot
                Slinqshot 9 January 2019 09: 41
                +1
                What does sclerosis have to do with it? People have such a sense of humor brought up on Petrosyans - they believe that jokes of 10 years ago are still relevant.
                1. Antiliberast
                  Antiliberast 9 January 2019 11: 50
                  +1
                  Well, what to do, sarcasm failed ...
                  1. Slinqshot
                    Slinqshot 9 January 2019 13: 12
                    +1
                    Sorry I did not understand)
          3. true_rover
            true_rover 8 January 2019 15: 18
            +3
            Add the names of KShMok: R-125B "Belozor"; R-142 "Deimos"; R-145 "Seagull"; BMP-1KSh "Potok"; R-149BMR "Kushetka-B". (I was lucky to work for them)
            1. RL
              RL 8 January 2019 18: 39
              +1
              "Deimos" is not in the stream. Deimos, in ancient Greek mythology, "confusion, horror" or the personification of horror.
              1. true_rover
                true_rover 8 January 2019 18: 51
                +1
                I'm talking about the names in general, "couch" is also not in the stream, but how it sounds
          4. Lycan
            Lycan 9 January 2019 13: 42
            +3
            Maybe our menacing names seem odious and "stilted"? So they "dilute" the general row with such kind and unexpected names. "White swans", by the way, also have a very gentle initial image ... However, they can "dirty" the target area! lol
          5. spectr
            spectr 9 January 2019 14: 06
            0
            Abroad, these names are not perceived. wink The same shell, for example, was renamed the hound.
        2. Slinqshot
          Slinqshot 8 January 2019 14: 22
          0
          A joke repeated 10 times will not be funnier. I think that the originality of the names of our weapons was known even without your copy-paste.
        3. Klingon
          Klingon 8 January 2019 17: 53
          +2
          ATGM Chrysanthemum forgot laughing
        4. Ascold1901
          Ascold1901 8 January 2019 21: 43
          +2
          They scored a grenade "Foundling" ... o)))
        5. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 9 January 2019 01: 51
          0
          Quote: Silvestr
          body armor "Visit"

          Well, the bulletproof vest could be called a little differently ... for example, "Own shirt ..."
        6. SASHA OLD
          SASHA OLD 10 January 2019 02: 59
          0
          rubber stick "Argument"
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 8 January 2019 12: 01
      +10
      Quote: svp67
      PAK YES "Messenger"
      Always liked the names of our projects.

      I mean, send it far and for a long time. wink
      1. Tusv
        Tusv 8 January 2019 12: 13
        +17
        Quote: NEXUS
        I mean, send far and long

        Messenger - Airplane. Pilots - Ambassador Extraordinary. Cannot be shot down - Highest diplomatic rank bully
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 January 2019 12: 48
          +12
          Quote: Tusv
          Messenger - Airplane. Pilots - Ambassador Extraordinary. Cannot be shot down - Highest diplomatic rank

          You directly reminded me of the KVN of Soviet times, one team says the beginning of the phrase, the second should continue.
          First:
          - On a street corner in Amsterdam there is a barrel of cucumbers. It says ....
          The second:
          - Ambassador of the Soviet Union!
          1. Tusv
            Tusv 8 January 2019 13: 00
            +2
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            - Ambassador of the Soviet Union!

            Then from the same anecdote - Spicy Ambassador. And isyo, isyo is an ambassador for. It is also possible for the "Messenger". missiles call Kapustin 72
      2. Random
        Random 8 January 2019 12: 15
        -1
        Quote: NEXUS
        I mean, send it far and for a long time.

        And not only.... bully ... 19 lards ..... by 2025 "production" should be ..... "prepared and debugged" belay
        "Works" ... not an open edge laughing
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 8 January 2019 12: 36
          +3
          Quote: Random
          "Works" ... not an open edge

          Friendly, well, we will see a prototype over the years through 15 at best. And for me, the program for TU-160M2 looks much more realistic.
          Another question is what to do with the replacement of 22's in the future 10-15 years. And in this regard, I think we woke up late with the PAK DA program.
          Although it is clear that all these PAK FA, PAK YES, PAK TA, PAK DP at the same time, we stupidly will not take out financially.
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 8 January 2019 13: 06
            +2
            Quote: NEXUS
            Friendly, well, we will see a prototype over the years through 15 at best. And for me, the program for TU-160M2 looks much more realistic.

            And maybe later, judging by the pace of implementation of the "product 80" project (R&D "Messenger")
            A competition for the creation of this aircraft was announced in 2007, in which the winner was Tupolev Design Bureau in August 2009. The Design Bureau signed a three-year contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense for the “Messenger” R&D. As part of the research, Tupolev Design Bureau prepared a draft design for “product 80”, approved in the spring of 2013. On December 23, 2013, the UAC signed a contract for the development of a technical design for PAK DA; the technical design was approved in 2016.
            However, in 2015, the idea of ​​resuming Tu-160M2 production was accelerated and the PAK DA program was postponed to a later date. Deputy Minister of Defense Yuri Borisov said that because of the Tu-160M2 program, the PAK DA project “will be somewhat delayed”

            And therefore, as they say, a hen in a nest and an egg yourself know where
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 8 January 2019 23: 29
              +2
              For a long time I did not appear on the site. Nothing changed! laughing The drawing below the text is especially encouraging. This is for a particularly stupid inserted! laughing
          2. Random
            Random 8 January 2019 13: 08
            +1
            Quote: NEXUS
            Friendly, well, we’ll see a prototype in 15 years at best.

            Hi, drinks ... well, these terms too .... too ... optimistic wink , and if you read "sounded TTT to" motors "then ...... a fairy tale may not turn into reality" wassat
            Quote: NEXUS
            Another question is what to do with the replacement of 22 in the future 10-15 years

            When upgrading to М3М, the assigned calendar is extended up to 50 years.
            Quote: NEXUS
            And in this regard, I think we woke up late with the PAK DA program.

            12 years of "wishlist" promises "and .." talking shops "(we omit the financial side bully )
            Although MP Simonov and "his KB" began the development of "ed. 54" back in 1983 soldier, and a full-size layout was already ready in 1994.
            What else is needed ..... take the documentation and .. forward, but ..... okay ... we won’t talk about this bully
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 8 January 2019 13: 16
              -1
              Quote: Random
              . well these terms too .... too ... optimistic

              I take into account the developments in PAK FA. Perhaps this will speed things up. Although most likely you are right, 15 years is optimistic.
              Quote: Random
              When upgrading to М3М, the assigned calendar is extended up to 50 years.

              They do it, but how many combat ready 22's will we get?
              1. Random
                Random 8 January 2019 13: 25
                0
                Quote: NEXUS
                They do it, but how many combat ready 22's will we get?

                Let's not talk about ... "sad" winked
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 8 January 2019 13: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Random
                  Let's not talk about ... "sad"

                  Here I am, friend. So let's not talk about 50 years either. 22 needed a replacement 15-20 years ago, or at least the beginning of the replacement work. But now we have what we have.
                  Well, now we’re trying to catch up with a gallop ... this is very Russian. Sleep 30 for years, and then wake up and start implementing the five-year plan in two years. And so we live in a constant battle for the harvest, in eternal super-buildings and heroic Stakhanov victories.
                  1. Random
                    Random 8 January 2019 13: 39
                    +3
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    So let's not talk about 50 years either.

                    I gave you the numbers "voiced" by the Tupolev Design Bureau on M3M wink
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    But now we have what we have.

                    Andrei ... at the moment we have in the cities of RO there are simply MOUNTAINS of garbage (all streets including central and courtyards wassat ), which is not exported (in fact), since the operator has changed ("changed" bully ) from December 29 to today am
                    Well, the third day there is NO water NO from the word ABSOLUTELY).
                    The snow that we carry in buckets in the bathtubs and drown with heat guns has started.
                    And you say .. 21st century .. PAK yes ... "get up off our knees" wassat wink
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 8 January 2019 13: 46
                      +2
                      Quote: Random
                      Well, the third day there is NO water NO from the word ABSOLUTELY).
                      The snow that we carry in buckets in the bathtubs and drown with heat guns has started.
                      And you say .. 21st century .. PAK yes ... "get up off our knees"

                      Notice friend, if it happened somewhere in Europe or the USA, everything, ales, would be an apocalypse. And you’re still joking. You’re pushing in the internet for the future of strategic aviation of the Russian Federation. wassat
                      What can I say, while we even have such a sense of humor in such unsanitary conditions, we are invincible. wink
                      1. Random
                        Random 8 January 2019 14: 09
                        +2
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        all, ales, the apocalypse would have been.

                        "The kids" yesterday "departed" to the capital ("the holidays" are over "), so they caught this whole day ..." Armageddon "(although they seem to have lived here a lot, but .... already gone nuts") They say that if Sobyanin had it, then everyone was already on their ears and dug the earth with their nose ... and here ... am
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        And you’re still joking. You’re pushing in the internet for the future of strategic aviation of the Russian Federation.

                        So we are familiar ..... in the toilet with a crowbar ... that would not be frozen lol , wash yourself off the basin, sleep in the same bed, and put the dog first so that ... heats ... well, etc.
                        So we are a people .. "seasoned" wassat
                        It's in the center wassat

                      2. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 8 January 2019 14: 17
                        +5
                        Quote: Random
                        So we are a people .. "seasoned"

                        This is in our genes. Especially a generation from the Union, looking at young people, is puzzled by the question - how can they live without Wi-Fi, computers, iPhones.
                        And we drank soda from one glass and no one had swine flu, chased the ball to the first stars in the sky, played snowballs and sculpted a snow woman in -30 ... and how did we survive that? lol
                      3. Ross xnumx
                        Ross xnumx 8 January 2019 19: 14
                        +3
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        And we drank soda from one glass and no one had swine flu, chased the ball to the first stars in the sky, played snowballs and sculpted a snow woman in -30 ... and how did we survive that?

                        I myself am from Siberia. Everything happened. About port wine from one glass - I remember. About foot and mouth disease - I heard. About gatherings in the village under the ditties and jokes to the stars - I know. I can dazzle snow in the cold too. But, in football to the touch or a snow woman at -30 ° C - I do not recall this. Have you definitely sculpted or glued? lol
                        And we survived thanks to hardening, a healthy lifestyle and the lack of drugs and the Internet. Almost every second had a sports category ...
                      4. Sasha ___
                        Sasha ___ 9 January 2019 17: 06
                        0
                        Football at -30 is a sweet deal. In Omsk, for about 20 years, a winter soccer tournament in the snow has been held in the New Year. There and not only -30 play http://oshasport.ru/o-turnire
                      5. Simple
                        Simple 8 January 2019 14: 19
                        0
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        ... Notice friend, it would happen somewhere in Europe ...


                        Guys, we have utility bills.
                        And in order for some private firm to "wedge in" there, in comparison with the bureaucracy in German, the Russian bureaucracy is childish babble.


                        Quote: Random
                        ... Well, the third day there is NO water NO from the word AT ALL) ..


                        Tin.

                        Did you teleport again in 1995?
                        recourse
                      6. Random
                        Random 8 January 2019 14: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: Simple
                        Did you teleport again in 1995?

                        At that time I was in "Chechnya", and the family "lived" in the garrison, where ... there is only taiga around ... so there were never any problems with garbage wassat with water ... much less winkthe well is ... thing good
                        And here the Donskoy water intake was designed and built in such a way that .... "the designers had to have their hands in the bud ..... to the very elbows" am
                        We mainly have "Eastern" winds (N-E, E-SE) "meteorological direction wink"and all the water from the Don .." goes "to the Sea of ​​Azov (the so-called .. drive), but in winter, in addition," sludge "is formed

                        On the right, where the yellow stripe is, it’s ... bottom ... and the cliff is where the shrub crying
                        So you have to wait ... the wind changes to "western" and then there will be a tide recourse , according to the forecast, "happiness" should happen by Saturday and ... "the wind will change" lol
                      7. Simple
                        Simple 8 January 2019 14: 46
                        +2
                        Quote: Random
                        At that time I was in "Chechnya",


                        In Karaganda, at that time, I went to Khrushchev with a candle and a bucket of coal for a wineskin - so I had a chance to survive

                        Quote: Random
                        So we must wait ... the wind will change to "western" and then there will be a tide, according to the forecast, "happiness" should happen by Saturday and ... "the wind will change"


                        Romance. drinks

                        Okay, for the second time, I’m going to work - I took the house into slavery and now plow the same Stakhanovite.
                        hi
                      8. Random
                        Random 8 January 2019 14: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Simple
                        In Karaganda, at that time, I went to Khrushchev with a candle and a bucket of coal for a wineskin - so I had a chance to survive

                        The same ... "worthy .. test" for .... "endurance and survival" drinks
                  2. VRF
                    VRF 8 January 2019 23: 02
                    +1
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    To sleep for 30 years, and then wake up and begin to implement the five-year plan in two years.

                    You know, the country already had such an experience. Only the country was not the same, and the people are different ..
              2. Hypersound
                Hypersound 8 January 2019 13: 52
                -2
                Quote: NEXUS
                15 years is optimistic.

                It all depends on the economy. If the oligarchs invest in the economy (which Putin recently met with), if the oil price is broken (they forecast $ 110 / barrel by 2025), if the sanctions are lifted (there will be a civil war in the USA in 2 months and there will be no time for sanctions; Europe after get rid of US oppression immediately), then all this can dramatically spur the economy = military budget = the pace of design and production
                1. Random
                  Random 8 January 2019 14: 14
                  +2
                  Quote: Hypersound
                  If

                  Those. everything "rests" on .. "IF"? wassat
                  Remember the saying? About the fact that ... "if my grandmother had ..." one subject ", she would not have been ..." grandfather " wassat lol
                  1. Hypersound
                    Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 31
                    -6
                    So Pu already bent them. 6 trillion rubles has already been approved. Maybe more shake
                2. ALARI
                  ALARI 8 January 2019 15: 18
                  +2
                  There is such a proverb. Not an intelligent person is rich in thought (
                3. K-612-O
                  K-612-O 8 January 2019 19: 33
                  -1
                  It doesn’t depend on anything, there is an order and money, and at least you can’t speed up the development with at least kicks. This is a complex complex that must be brought to mind.
              3. the most important
                the most important 8 January 2019 19: 49
                -1
                Quote: NEXUS
                I take into account the developments in PAK FA. Perhaps this will speed things up. Although most likely you are right, 15 years is optimistic.

                In terms of time, it all depends on one event that will happen in 5 years (within 5 years to be precise). But from its results, the deadlines will already be considered.
            2. Hypersound
              Hypersound 8 January 2019 13: 48
              0
              Quote: Random
              and if you read "sounded TTT to" motors "

              And what kind of super motors are there? The plane is subsonic, so the usual motors. They can generally stick in existing ones. For example, the American promising iron B-21 will fly on motors from the F-35. I think ours will do this too and stick some kind of AL41, or "Product 30"
              1. Random
                Random 8 January 2019 14: 12
                +2
                Quote: Hypersound
                And what kind of super motors are there?

                According to the stated requirements, the main and duplicating electronic engine systems will have to provide a bomber flight lasting up to 30 hours.

                Fuel supply and hydromechanical control systems should operate at near-zero and negative overloads up to 2,7 g and at temperatures from minus 60 to plus 50 degrees Celsius.
                The minimum service life of the product should be 12 years with the possibility of extending the life of up to 21 years.

                In addition, it was separately noted that the engine must be resistant to the effects of the damaging factors of nuclear weapons.
          3. Hypersound
            Hypersound 8 January 2019 13: 45
            -3
            The development will be easily taken out - in the Russian Federation it is 30-60 times cheaper than the American one. But to reproduce - to build many copies - this is already much more difficult for us than for the USA. Most likely, they will make 10-15 pieces at most
            1. RL
              RL 8 January 2019 20: 43
              +1
              From the "if only, if only" area.
              If in Russia there were such salaries as in the USA, then the price of the plane would be tens of percent higher than in the USA. Because in the USA there is MUCH less stealing and cutting than in Russia. And for such cases, the punishments are very sensitive, not looking at the ranks and acquaintances.
              And the military are not masters there. A small example. The US Congress considered and decided that the operation of the SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft is too expensive and that's it, the aircraft no longer flies. The military made a little noise, they say, the flights of this aircraft are vital for the security of the United States, but they made noise in vain. Congress to them - "you are not the boss here!" but we'll see if we need so many generals.
              1. Hypersound
                Hypersound 8 January 2019 21: 50
                0
                Quote: RL
                Because in the USA there is MUCH less stealing and cutting than in Russia.

                In general, in society - yes. But it is in the defense industry in Russia that there is much less corruption than in the US
          4. K-612-O
            K-612-O 8 January 2019 19: 31
            +2
            The development of the sketch went on for three years, now the prototypes will then do the tests, then the flight samples, again the tests, and only then the serial cd. We have hardware complexes that have been developed for 5 years. These are all processes not fast, we only sawed one system for this ashtray for 4 years, only passed it.
        2. Hypersound
          Hypersound 8 January 2019 13: 44
          -2
          Quote: Random
          19 Lard

          Ruble? Pennies for such an aircraft
          1. Random
            Random 8 January 2019 13: 49
            0
            Quote: Hypersound
            Ruble? Pennies for such an aircraft

            ".... The main news was announced by the Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade Oleg Bocharov.
            According to him, the Ministry of Industry and Trade intends to send additional 19 billion rubles of state investments in the ongoing technological modernization of the Kazan Aviation Plant named after Gorbunova so that the plant becomes a production base for creating a promising long-range aviation complex (PAK DA, factory designation: “product 80”). True, for this, the project needs to be protected in the government of the Russian Federation and the State Duma in order to amend the expenditure items of the federal budget for 2018.
            Source: https://realnoevremya.ru/articles/10958 ... -gorbunova
            And R&D is ... "a completely different story" bully
    3. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 8 January 2019 12: 04
      +5
      Quote: svp67
      Did this plane have its SPECIAL tasks, to combat the same AUG, will the "Messenger" take it upon itself?

      There seems to have already been an opinion from that area that to return the refueling bar (if I made a mistake in the terminology - I apologize to the flyers hi ) on the Tu-22m3 is quite costly and problematic. But, as I understand it, this is definitely cheaper than the production of a new aircraft.
      Quote: svp67
      Always liked the names of our projects.

      Yeah, he’ll send someone somewhere ...
      1. Random
        Random 8 January 2019 12: 21
        +2
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        refueling bar

        Just .. "filling rod" drinks
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        Tu-22m3 is quite expensive and problematic

        Not very expensive (although depending on what to compare) and not at all problematic (the matter is small ... time for the production of components and the installation itself)
        PS "Skazachnikov" that all components in spare parts are available in the TEC regiments and at ARZ, as well as that the Tu-22M3 already has all the "fuel automatic equipment" .... please ... "DO NOT DISTURB " wassat soldier
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 8 January 2019 12: 24
          +3
          Received the information. Sergei soldier drinks
          1. cniza
            cniza 8 January 2019 12: 53
            +1
            Greetings! hi drinks , a beautiful name, which means there will be a beautiful "unit".
            1. bouncyhunter
              bouncyhunter 8 January 2019 12: 57
              +1
              Mutually, Victor! hi drinks
              Quote: cniza
              a beautiful name means there will be a beautiful "unit".

              There can be no doubt. yes
            2. Baloo
              Baloo 8 January 2019 13: 02
              +2
              Quote: cniza
              Greetings! hi drinks , a beautiful name, which means there will be a beautiful "unit".

              What about handling? winked The flying wing scheme is less stable than the classic.
              1. Hypersound
                Hypersound 8 January 2019 13: 53
                -3
                Naturally, he will not be super-maneuverable. But for him this is not required. With truncated Daggers on board, it will be a wunderwafer
              2. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 8 January 2019 14: 13
                +4
                Quote: Balu
                The flying wing scheme is less stable than the classic.

                ESDU solves these problems. By the way, pilots flying the B-2 note its stability in all channels. And even funnier: those who had a chance to fly the F-117 noted that it was "aerodynamically, a very decent aircraft."
                ESDU is now being put everywhere, the technology has been worked out.
                1. NN52
                  NN52 8 January 2019 23: 02
                  +1
                  Hi Tramp!
                  Here is such a photo among connoisseurs walking ... Meet PAK YES)))
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 8 January 2019 23: 06
                    0
                    This is the concept of a Boeing - transport aircraft.
                    1. NN52
                      NN52 8 January 2019 23: 07
                      +1
                      Maybe...
                    2. Days
                      Days 9 January 2019 00: 50
                      +2
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      This is the concept of a Boeing - transport aircraft.

                      No, the Boeing X-48B has engine nacelles round, above the wing:


                      Nowhere with Boeing is the picture that NN52 attributes to the PAK YES image. On the contrary, there are several English-language sites with information about PAK YES with this picture as the main image, one even shows the copyright of a certain KRET laughing .
                  2. nycsson
                    nycsson 8 January 2019 23: 36
                    -5
                    So, in addition to photos and pencil drawing, you don’t have nichrome! Country of fools.... negative fool
                    In order to create such an aircraft industry is needed !!! And we have nothing left but pipes and logging!
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 9 January 2019 10: 08
                      +2
                      If we didn’t have anything, who and how was the army rearmed for a new one? Do not write any garbage.
      2. SSR
        SSR 8 January 2019 12: 36
        +3
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        returning the refueling bar to the Tu-22m3 is quite costly and problematic. But, as I understand it, this is definitely cheaper than the production of a new aircraft.

        Well, they’re kind of being upgraded now.
        I will express myself clumsily as usual, remember how Iran would like to give a jump airport for our Tu-22s and how they flew to Syria by 6 pcs. KAB-300 seems to be dropped.
        This is what I mean, well, "watch" over the ocean with a tanker .... see, it's time to make an unobtrusive and
        In the internal compartments of the PAD, the DA must ultimately carry a larger load of weapons than the current means of long-range aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces.

        I don’t know if this is about strategic aviation, including, but obviously more than the Tu-22, although they will serve for 30 more years.
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 8 January 2019 12: 44
          +4
          Quote: SSR
          I don’t know if this is about strategic aviation, including, but obviously more than the Tu-22, although they will serve for 30 more years.

          So the fact of the matter is that
          "Tupolev" getting ready to start making prototypes PAK DA "Messenger"

          Oh, how far it is to the series, so what we have should be kept in good condition. Well, to upgrade, of course, the good potential is not exhausted.
          1. Hypersound
            Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 08
            0
            Quote: bouncyhunter
            Until the series, oh how far

            In the worst case, they will meet the deadlines specified in the article. But most likely, they will do it even faster. Long to decipher why
        2. Random
          Random 8 January 2019 13: 23
          +2
          Quote: SSR
          I will express myself clumsily as usual, remember how Iran would like to give a jump airport for our Tu-22s and how they flew to Syria by 6 pcs. KAB-300 seems to be dropped.

          Tu-22M3 can only use free-falling AB, among the common people ... "iron".
          KAB-300 .. such a caliber does not exist.
          OFAB-250-270, FAB-500 9M-54 and M-62 were used in Syria.
          AB Hamadan was needed very much ... then it would be possible to "carry" 24 tons of bombs soldier
          Quote: SSR
          Why am I, well, "watch" over the ocean with a tanker

          Before "on duty", you must first "have" in service with both the Tu-22M3M and the Il-78 and ... the flight personnel trained according to the level of KBP YES for this type of combat training soldier
          1. SSR
            SSR 8 January 2019 14: 46
            0
            Quote: Random
            OFAB-250-270, FAB-500 9M-54 and M-62 were used in Syria.

            Thank you!
            Where did the cab-300 come from in my head? (((
            Quote: Random
            you must first "get hold of"

            This applies to PAK YES, because you still need to get a hold of the groundwork.
    4. Roma 1977
      Roma 1977 8 January 2019 12: 10
      +1
      Probably new weapons on board will allow.
    5. Random
      Random 8 January 2019 12: 13
      +6
      Quote: svp67
      Always liked the names of our projects.

      If these "names" also turned into ... REALITIES ... they would have .. "there was no price" wink
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 January 2019 12: 50
        +1
        Sergey, dear, Happy New Year and Merry Christmas! hi drinks
        Do you think the Messenger will fly?
        1. Random
          Random 8 January 2019 13: 11
          +1
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Do you think the Messenger will fly?

          Hello Andrey, Happy New Year drinks
          Maybe it will fly ... but certainly ... without me wassat
          If it were not for the "drinker", then "ed. 54C" would definitely have flown in the late 90s, and in the early 2000s it would have gone into series soldier
          1. SSR
            SSR 8 January 2019 17: 53
            +2
            Quote: Random
            If not for the "wine glass",

            And before him "tagged". (((
    6. asv363
      asv363 8 January 2019 12: 25
      +2
      The name, so to speak, with a hint.

      I noticed another thing:
      It is known that the designers settled on the PAK DA version in the “flying wing” configuration. In other words, the aircraft will have no tail.

      Vertical plumage will be completely absent ?! What is it like?

      In this case, the aircraft itself will be subsonic.

      But this is a step back, compared with the Tu-160.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 8 January 2019 12: 49
        +6
        Quote: asv363
        Vertical plumage will be completely absent ?! What is it like?

        Like B-2 Spirit.
        Quote: asv363
        In this case, the aircraft itself will be subsonic.

        But this is a step back, compared with the Tu-160.

        Not. TU-160 created supersonic to break through enemy air defense. Now the supersonic function for the strategist is redundant, as the missiles are developed, the same X-101 / 102, and in the long run a long-range missile, which allows the strategist not to enter the enemy’s air defense zone at all.
        PAK YES is conceived as a cheaper version of the strategic bomber. Another question is what the actual output will be.
        1. Hypersound
          Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 11
          -1
          Quote: NEXUS
          Now the supersonic function for the strategist is redundant, as the missiles are developed, the same X-101/102, and in the long term also the long-range missile, which allows the strategist not to enter the enemy’s air defense zone at all.

          And now it’s already possible not to enter the air defense zone - the range of the same vigorous X-102 is already 5.5 km
      2. Hypersound
        Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 10
        -1
        Quote: asv363
        But this is a step back, compared with the Tu-160.

        No, just the next generation of strategists has such a concept. Not only here, but all over the world
    7. siberalt
      siberalt 8 January 2019 12: 28
      0
      By 2026, Putin and Shoigu will "leave", and Medvedev will have all these PAKs, somehow on the side. If they are to be released, then at least until 2024.winked
      1. Sergey M. Karasev
        Sergey M. Karasev 8 January 2019 12: 47
        +3
        [Quote
        By 2026, Putin and Shoigu will "leave", and Medvedev will have all these PAKs, somehow on the side.] [/ Quote]
        Medvedev, as it were, had not "left" even earlier.
        1. Hypersound
          Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 14
          -1
          Quote: Sergey Mikhailovich Karasev
          Medvedev, as it were, had not "left" even earlier.

          It is true that Medvedev will be removed from office even earlier, most likely no later than 2022. In order to put Putin’s successor in his place as president of the Russian Federation, and begin to untwist him. And Putin himself will become the head of the Union State (Russia, Belarus, New Russia, Transnistria, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Alaska)
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 8 January 2019 12: 55
        +5
        Quote: siberalt
        and Medvedev all these PAKs, somehow on the side

        Medvedev buried himself, as a politician for the people with one phrase, there is no money, but you hold on. And now, it’s easier for him to become an astronaut than to be president again.
        1. Hypersound
          Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 14
          -1
          Yes, Midvis has a rating of about 9%
        2. ALARI
          ALARI 8 January 2019 15: 23
          +3
          Putin will say on TV that half of this site will run for Medvedev to vote in March.
      3. Hypersound
        Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 12
        0
        Putin will be after 2024, only the name will change from "President of the Russian Federation" to something like "Chairman of the Supreme Council of the RF Union State"
      4. Ezekiel 25-17
        Ezekiel 25-17 8 January 2019 14: 44
        -2
        Vote for Poklonskaya.
    8. KOCMOC
      KOCMOC 8 January 2019 12: 34
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      Well, the first two are still clear, but the last two are not very good. Did this plane have its SPECIAL tasks, to combat the same AUG, will the "Messenger" take it upon itself?

      There is no need for SPECIAL tasks, they are simply different, but they should all become ordinary and the Messenger will fulfill them, using a set of appropriate missile messages.
    9. Ezekiel 25-17
      Ezekiel 25-17 8 January 2019 12: 53
      -2
      Judging by the fact that he will be the carrier of the ABKR "Dagger", yes.
      1. Random
        Random 8 January 2019 21: 45
        -1
        Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
        he will carry the ABKR "Dagger", yes.

    10. YOUR
      YOUR 8 January 2019 12: 59
      -1
      Another high-profile project that will end well if a dozen built cars. And the same Tu-95, Tu-160 and Tu-22M3 will remain in service. About which they will tell us how cool they have been modernized and that now they will be able to serve for more than a dozen years in a new guise.
    11. Bykov.
      Bykov. 8 January 2019 13: 36
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      PAK YES "Messenger"
      Always liked the names of our projects.

      Yes, PAK YES "Messenger" is distant, which means that he will send far away.
    12. The comment was deleted.
    13. Hypersound
      Hypersound 8 January 2019 13: 40
      -1
      Quote: svp67
      Did this plane have its SPECIAL tasks, to combat the same AUG, will the "Messenger" take it upon itself?


      Here is the answer to your question:

      One of the types of weapons that the PAK DA will carry is hypersonic missile systems. Earlier it was reported that it could be a modification of the “Dagger”.
    14. venik
      venik 8 January 2019 14: 03
      -1
      Quote: svp67
      Well, the first two are still clear, but the last two are not very good. Did this plane have its SPECIAL tasks, to combat the same AUG, will the "Messenger" take it upon itself?

      =========
      Well, as the "tiger" said, in one of the fairy tales about "Winnie the Pooh": "Wait - WE WILL SEE !!! "
    15. Observer2014
      Observer2014 8 January 2019 14: 35
      -3
      svp67 (Sergei) hi
      This aircraft had its SPECIAL tasks to combat the same AUG
      yes
      Will the "Messenger" take it upon himself?
      request I don’t know for sure. But maybe I’m wrong. But the range of the current Russian missiles is that this "Messenger" just needs to hang in the air under the cover of his air defense.
    16. RL
      RL 8 January 2019 18: 50
      +1
      Comrade svp67 can be congratulated. Great talent. I perfectly translated the topic from the discussion of the development of prototypes of PAK DA to waving slogans about the names.
    17. Jurkovs
      Jurkovs 9 January 2019 08: 35
      0
      It was necessary to directly call the Messenger of Peace.
    18. Vanych
      Vanych 10 January 2019 12: 32
      -2
      yeah, and I propose to call the NATO B-2 - "SALANETS")))) .... well, they also call our names in different ways ... request
  2. gosha1970
    gosha1970 8 January 2019 11: 56
    -14
    Right now, the comments in style: Give! Bigger and better !!
    1. Ezekiel 25-17
      Ezekiel 25-17 8 January 2019 12: 55
      +1
      Yes, to spite your Yankees.
    2. Dude
      Dude 8 January 2019 13: 02
      +1
      Quote: gosha1970
      Right now, the comments in style: Give! Bigger and better !!

      Are you jealous?
    3. Tarhan
      Tarhan 8 January 2019 14: 30
      0
      Right now, the comments in style: Give! Bigger and better !!

      What's again? Or ON NEW?

      Cap in the air again. And according to the new enthusiasm, full pants.

      A decade of propaganda and noodles with the PAK FA ended with the Su-57. But empty space should not be, by default propaganda. A new ten-year period begins, new propaganda, new noodles with PAK DA "Messenger". fellow laughing wassat

      No, it will be good if it flies in 2028, but the experience with the Su-57 is negative. And a bomber is several times more complicated than a fighter. recourse sad stop
  3. kefan
    kefan 8 January 2019 11: 57
    +10
    "Messenger", well, very subtle humor laughing
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 8 January 2019 12: 21
      +2
      Quote: kefan
      "Messenger", well, very subtle humor

      Yeah, better postman, Mail, that's what's scary
      1. bouncyhunter
        bouncyhunter 8 January 2019 12: 40
        +1
        hi
        Quote: Vadivak
        Mail, that's scary

        And for the postmen and spammers will appear ... repeat
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 8 January 2019 13: 13
          +2
          Quote: bouncyhunter
          for postmen

          "The postman always rings twice!" - classic!
          1. bouncyhunter
            bouncyhunter 8 January 2019 13: 25
            +1
            Quote: Uncle Lee
            "The postman always rings twice!" - classic!

            Classic is immortal! It’s a pity that not everyone knows this ...
            Volodya, with all the holidays to you and your loved ones! hi drinks
            1. Uncle lee
              Uncle lee 8 January 2019 13: 45
              +1
              Pasha, mutually! drinks All the best in the New Year! I like "White Swan" better!
  4. Romul_78
    Romul_78 8 January 2019 12: 03
    +1
    If the concept is that the task of the aircraft is to launch a long-range missile, then it is not clear why it is needed at all. Take off and launch rockets over the territory of Russia and then let them fly themselves .. what prevents in this case they are stupidly launched from the ground?
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 8 January 2019 12: 09
      +5
      I do not pretend to be correct, but if starting the earth to a range is much less. rocket flight
      1. Hypersound
        Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 17
        -1
        Quote: Bull Terrier
        I do not pretend to be correct, but if starting the earth to a range is much less. rocket flight

        And that is true
    2. Tusv
      Tusv 8 January 2019 12: 19
      +5
      Quote: Romul_78
      what prevents in this case they are stupidly launched from the ground?

      The Americans haven’t left the INF Treaty yet, because when they were down from the earth
    3. Dude
      Dude 8 January 2019 13: 04
      -2
      Engage in self-education, why ask stupid questions in the forum?
    4. Hypersound
      Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 17
      -1
      Well, the missile range, although large, but not infinite) and not 10k km. Although, if the Petrels begin to rivet, then you can do as you wrote. In addition, the same X-101 is currently prohibited from launching from the land the still active INF Treaty.
    5. venik
      venik 8 January 2019 14: 27
      0
      Quote: Romul_78
      Take off and launch rockets over the territory of Russia and then let them fly themselves .. what prevents in this case they are stupidly launched from the ground?

      ========
      Well, there is already a very simple "explanation": - it is to launch missiles from "known points" (this is ONE) .... If the "launch points" are KNOWN in advance - then you can put up a powerful missile defense system on the "approach routes". ... (by the way, and mobile ground complexes with regards to !!!) ... But what if the "carrier" enters the zone where the missile defense system is the weakest? HOW to fight back ???
      Here BECAUSE the DBA is one of the MOST DANGEROUS elements (defense and attack!) !!!
  5. alauda1038
    alauda1038 8 January 2019 12: 03
    -1
    Shoto hurts for a long time angry
    1. Hypersound
      Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 18
      -1
      Most likely will do faster
  6. Altona
    Altona 8 January 2019 12: 05
    0
    It seems that new weapons are being prepared primarily for sale. Otherwise, why announce them with the declared characteristics and the proposed design?
    1. Random
      Random 8 January 2019 12: 23
      +4
      Quote: Altona
      Otherwise, why announce them with the declared characteristics and the proposed design?

      The most important thing is that the people would have ... "spectacles" and ... "more" ... otherwise the tea will start thinking about "life-being" and .. "bread .. wink
    2. Hypersound
      Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 18
      -1
      No one will sell this child prodigy to anyone, not even China
  7. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 8 January 2019 12: 05
    +4
    A sort of flying cruiser - a missile carrier with God knows what arsenal. Well, the truth is, why should an airplane fly at supersonic sound when it has an arsenal of hypersonic laughing
    1. Random
      Random 8 January 2019 12: 24
      -1
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      A sort of flying cruiser - a missile carrier with God knows what arsenal.

      It's still ...... "very distant future" .... "very" sad
  8. Romul_78
    Romul_78 8 January 2019 12: 13
    -2
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I need an Ala Tu-22m3 plane. Why do I need a pack but it's not entirely clear
  9. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 8 January 2019 12: 14
    +7
    [It was previously reported that it could be a modification of the “Dagger”. In this case, the aircraft itself will be subsonic. Ash-tree stump, the "Iskander" will have to start the starting stage ... The "Dagger" for PAK YES must be 2-stage ... what kind of roll I was "waxed" when I expressed this "assumption" earlier?
    1. Hypersound
      Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 20
      0
      Yet the Dagger is not equal to Iskander. The first speed is up to 10-12M, the second - only up to 7
      As for the two-stage agree
  10. silver169
    silver169 8 January 2019 12: 16
    +2
    And why will it be subsonic? Isn't this another mistake of the Moscow Region and the VKS command?
    1. Tashkent citizen
      Tashkent citizen 8 January 2019 12: 20
      +2
      And why will it be subsonic? Isn't this another mistake of the Moscow Region and the VKS command?

      Because supersonic kerosene eats a lot. And we have kerosene, but not enough, only we have left.
    2. Hypersound
      Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 20
      -1
      This is the concept of 5th generation strategic bombers
  11. cat hippopotamus
    cat hippopotamus 8 January 2019 12: 24
    +3
    The fact that he will take more load is promising, but the fact that he is subsonic is not a prospect.
    But the name, as always, with humor, "Messenger" of what, they will immediately understand it.
    1. helmi8
      helmi8 8 January 2019 13: 19
      +2
      Quote: cat hippo
      The fact that he will take more load is promising, but the fact that he is subsonic is not a prospect.

      Well, there’s an approach like this - the subsonic fuel consumption is lower, so the flight range is longer. And under the condition of flying at the same distance due to less fuel, the subsonic takes more bomb load than supersonic. Yes, and they wrote already above - far-reaching supersonic in the current conditions is not really needed ... Just use such an aircraft as a front-line bomber (as a replacement for the Tu-22) in my opinion is somehow not comme il faut ... Not for such tasks primarily intended.
  12. Tochilka
    Tochilka 8 January 2019 12: 35
    -2
    In my opinion, it’s stupid to disclose plans for creating promising technology. where do the first departments look where such balabolas work?
    1. Tashkent citizen
      Tashkent citizen 8 January 2019 12: 42
      -1
      In my opinion, it’s stupid to disclose plans for creating promising technology.

      I think it’s not necessary to take everything so to heart.
      This "Messenger" will be created in the same way as the Armata, Su-57, Il-112, Boomerang, and so on.
      1. Tochilka
        Tochilka 8 January 2019 12: 48
        -1
        but the regime still must be observed! a matter of national importance.
    2. spektr9
      spektr9 8 January 2019 12: 53
      +1

      In my opinion, it’s stupid to disclose plans for creating promising technology. where do the first departments look where such balabolas work?

      Judging by the latest developments and their terms, this infa is just disinfect for the enemy
    3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 January 2019 12: 53
      +3
      Quote: Tochilka
      In my opinion, it’s stupid to disclose plans for creating promising technology

      And as for me - it's stupidity to keep silent about them. The Americans put out their latest developments on the general, indicating how much it costs. Another question is that it is impossible to find truly secret things (well, the real performance characteristics of the Raptor radar, for example), there is already secrecy, so secrecy and a sea of ​​myths on the topic of "American superweapons that have no analogues in the world."
  13. Snail N9
    Snail N9 8 January 2019 12: 42
    -2
    But how, it will maneuver .... then there is no tail? ..... request
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 8 January 2019 13: 12
      -1
      Modern Su27 and others like them and with tails without a BEWM can no longer maneuver.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 8 January 2019 13: 16
      +1
      Paddle! wink He is subsonic ....
    3. Topgun
      Topgun 8 January 2019 13: 32
      -1
      this one somehow flies
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZsftEfi_Fs
    4. Slinqshot
      Slinqshot 8 January 2019 14: 53
      -1
      And he especially does not need it.
  14. mehan
    mehan 8 January 2019 13: 03
    -3
    Subsonic.....
  15. Vodka and Meldonium
    Vodka and Meldonium 8 January 2019 13: 05
    -4
    If they can do something to replace the Tu-160 and Tu-95, that's good, otherwise those dinosaurs that still fly more resemble the "Serpents of the Gorynychey" (I'm talking about the Tu-95) than modern aircraft. But if the cost of creating a new PAK YES "Messenger" - will raise the retirement age to 70 years, then well nafig such planes.
    1. Simple
      Simple 8 January 2019 13: 38
      0
      Quote: Vodka and Meldonium
      ... more "Serpents of Gorynychey" remind ...


      If anything resembles "The Serpent of Gorynych", then it is:





      wassat
    2. Hypersound
      Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 25
      0
      No, the economy will soon trample up. Oil will go up in price by $ 6-7 each year + oligarchs invest 6 trillion Re in Russian investment projects in Russia + after 2 months, the US civil war and sanctions against Russia will be lifted in the summer + shale oil production in the USA will sharply decrease = market supply will collapse oil = prices will fly even more into space + full friendship and cooperation with Europe will begin. The EU and the Eurasian Union will unite in one economic union. Not later than by 2025, Russia's GDP will grow by at least 5-6% per year, rather even higher
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 8 January 2019 15: 41
        -2
        "The EU and the Eurasian Union will merge into one economic union" ////
        -----
        Like, under the auspices of China? Second Silk Road? Repetition of the Chingizid Empire "from sea to sea"? Batu-2 again takes Hungary and moves on to the fragmented Allemans, Franks and weakened Angles?
        Boldly... fellow
        1. Hypersound
          Hypersound 8 January 2019 16: 01
          0
          I rather meant the economic union of Russia and the European Union. But China will also be involved there one way or another, of course
      2. Harry.km
        Harry.km 9 January 2019 19: 41
        +1
        Gosh ... this is where such grassy grass grows ???
        1. Hypersound
          Hypersound 9 January 2019 21: 28
          0
          Where world rulers Rothschilds (West) and Rockefellers (Russia, China and other smaller powers) decide the fate of mankind. In the current cycle, the Rothschilds lost, their time is running out
  16. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 8 January 2019 13: 11
    0
    The task that Tupolev specialists must solve is the final creation of a long-range aviation complex, which will allow replacing such aircraft as the Tu-95, Tu-160 and Tu-22М3.

    Hopefully this will be a compact 150-200 ton machine.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 January 2019 17: 31
      0
      Judging by the fact that it was announced - 320 tons will weigh, with a load of 120 tons for the possibility of air launch of rockets and rocket-earth-to-space missions.
  17. midshipman
    midshipman 8 January 2019 13: 24
    +2
    Congratulations to the creators.
    In 33, with the specialists of NII-2010 I placed equipment on it. It is already being produced, and many specialists with whom the equipment was placed are no longer in this world.
  18. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 8 January 2019 13: 25
    -1
    Still chose the type:
    subsonic stealth tailless.
    Like the American Raider B-21.
    This proves that Russian designers understand the importance of small radio stealth. Although in public speaking, the military deny stealth and ridicule the Americans.
    1. Hypersound
      Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 27
      0
      No one denies, just stealth - this is just a nice trick and nothing more. Reduces the detection distance by 30 percent. Nice, but not a panacea. And it was originally amerikosy claimed that it was a panacea and it’s almost impossible to bring down stealth, that’s why they laughed (and still laugh)
  19. Simple
    Simple 8 January 2019 13: 27
    0
    A little off topic but also for the future:

  20. clidon
    clidon 8 January 2019 13: 33
    -3
    Well, now they will begin to make the layout, then redo it, then blow it through. Then, in the year 27-28, the first flight, just when the Su-57 will go into series. Then the project will be canceled, saying that the Tu-160M2 which just in time for the year 2025 will go into production, it’s just abundant for a long time.
    1. Hypersound
      Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 28
      0
      Joker. The first flight will be in 2 years, a maximum of 3. And the Su-57 has already gone into production, the first aircraft will be delivered to units in a few months
      1. clidon
        clidon 9 January 2019 05: 24
        -1
        Even officially, he is in the year 20225m. The new Tu-160M ​​promised to take off in the 2016m. He is still not there. Su-57 did not go into series - these are two (!) Pre-production vehicles with old engines that will undergo military tests. But the real cars that will go to the troops, and not to the training ground, will not be soon.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 January 2019 17: 34
      0
      No one will cancel it, since in the first place, he must replace the already obsolete Tu 95.
      1. clidon
        clidon 9 January 2019 05: 25
        0
        Tu-95 will fly for a long time.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 9 January 2019 10: 11
          0
          Until the 2040s, and even units, how many do not upgrade them, and the airframe has a strength limit, according to alternating loads.
          1. clidon
            clidon 9 January 2019 16: 02
            0
            But the American B-52 has such a limit why not?
            1. VSrostagro
              VSrostagro 9 January 2019 18: 45
              0
              And they (B-52) are not eternal:
              Units produced by 744
              Status in service: 65 in reserve: 9
              1. clidon
                clidon 9 January 2019 19: 16
                0
                They were taken out of resource.
  21. sabakina
    sabakina 8 January 2019 13: 35
    +1
    To paraphrase one song, I want to say:
    -Here, the main thing is to start, at least create something!
    - We begin to create, we begin to create ....
  22. Hypersound
    Hypersound 8 January 2019 13: 36
    0
    And here is our iron laughing
  23. Adimius38
    Adimius38 8 January 2019 13: 37
    -1
    Something I doubt that it will replace a number of aircraft, subsonic speed is also not very good, that is, in fact, moving across the ocean at subsonic speed is somehow silly. At one time, the Tu-95 was criticized for this.
    1. Hypersound
      Hypersound 8 January 2019 14: 29
      -1
      The sound of strategists is the concept of all the distant 5th generation. Immerse yourself in the subject a bit.
    2. Waldemar
      Waldemar 9 January 2019 04: 14
      0
      Sorry, but tu160 has the main subsonic mode .... supersonic for overcoming air defense
  24. Hypersound
    Hypersound 8 January 2019 13: 38
    0
    Messenger) On the one hand, the name is simple. On the other hand, the name is perfect to send our "partners" to the devil's grandmother
  25. Old26
    Old26 8 January 2019 13: 38
    +1
    Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
    Judging by the fact that he will be the carrier of the ABKR "Dagger", yes.

    It started. Do not know where to attach the "Dagger"? And nothing, that the point in this system is to make the carrier as supersonic as possible. For this makes it possible to increase the flight range of the Dagger. What's the point in a subsonic carrier? Then the TU-95 can also be used as a carrier ...

    Quote: Tochilka
    but the regime still must be observed! a matter of national importance.

    Is the title of the topic already a state secret? It is the "stupidity" in the names that misleads our sworn friends. Who could have guessed that a PGRK with a missile, in which a MIRV instead of a monoblock would bear the non-explanatory name "Yars"? Or, for example, the name, try to use them to determine what products are in question: "Belladonna", "Tusks", "Waste", "Draining", "Slavianover". We have developed a somewhat vicious practice, when not secret names suddenly became secret in the eyes of the relevant structures, and vice versa. For example, the technological (design) index of the 15Аххх or 8Кхх rocket has always been not secret, but in a conversation with the military, when it was usually a question of equipment samples, when asked how differently the missiles were called, for example R-9, I heard "Shh, you should talk about it out loud. " And then the index 8K75 followed. Although exactly the opposite. It was the R-9 that was considered secret, and the 8K75 was not secret.
    A violation of the regime will occur when at this stage all the performance characteristics will be voiced (range, speed, engine type, fuel consumption, etc.)
  26. Hypersound
    Hypersound 8 January 2019 13: 39
    0
    Another plus - I’m sure that the development of our iron will be much cheaper than the $ 70 billion spent by the United States on the first B-2 (and the B-21 will be even more expensive). And each copy will not cost $ 1 billion, but much less
  27. Zomanus
    Zomanus 8 January 2019 13: 46
    0
    Well, if paired with the Tu-160 will be released, then the rules.
    Still, you cannot refuse a supersonic strategist.
    Although it is not yet known what weapons will be by then ...
  28. Sars
    Sars 8 January 2019 13: 47
    0
    Flying wing-deadlock in aviation, the most unstable in flight. All this is strange, or - disa.
    It is possible that under the tales of stealth will be developed VKS.
    1. ODERVIT
      ODERVIT 8 January 2019 14: 00
      0
      And where does such knowledge come from?
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 January 2019 17: 41
      +1
      But from the point of view of aerodynamics - it is effective during take-off and carrying capacity, and instability in flight is compensated by computer control systems, a flap - a slat and other things.
    3. Sars
      Sars 8 January 2019 19: 01
      -1
      Soviet magazines MK and TM widely covered this topic in 70-80.
      1. Sars
        Sars 8 January 2019 19: 08
        0
        Less than just the Americans could teach to fly wings more, thanks to powerful computers.
        1. Sars
          Sars 8 January 2019 19: 10
          0
          Any malfunction of electronics and all people cannot keep this device in flight.
          1. clidon
            clidon 9 January 2019 05: 38
            +1
            Well, for example, just like the Su-27
  29. ODERVIT
    ODERVIT 8 January 2019 13: 59
    0
    In numerous co-operation even draft designs are not fully prepared, not to mention RCD. Hazy somehow.
  30. askort154
    askort154 8 January 2019 14: 10
    +2
    I read the comments and, in general, agree with everyone. Though opinions are "split".
    We are here, lying on the couch, deciding the strategy for the development of aviation. Half of the world flies on our aircraft. And it would seem, why do we need all sorts of PAK YES when there is the world's largest supersonic strategic Tu-160. The Chinese still fly our Tu-16. But, in my opinion, this is what modern technological progress is about. In the 19-20 centuries, aviation was the leader of world technical progress, and it also opened the way to space. After the transition to mass rocketry and the "throw into space", aviation, scientifically and financially, "hung up". Is it worth investing finances in mass production of 5 generations, when science has already "started talking" about "robot-intelligence"? Therefore, now we have a century of "raskoryachki" - whether to invest in large series of Su-57, PAK DA, etc., roofing felts, while modernizing what is. It is already obvious that the technical capabilities are far behind the rapid development of IT technologies. For the same reason, we are in no hurry to "rivet" thousands of "Armats", and everything else. Western countries are also in no hurry .. Everyone is waiting for real projects from science. The world is on the border of technology creation, based on new physical principles.
    The main thing for us is not to be left behind. Looks like we're even leading! yes hi
    1. Tarhan
      Tarhan 8 January 2019 14: 44
      -2
      Looks like we're even leading!

      There will be no Leadership while they write - we are Leading.
      1. JD1979
        JD1979 8 January 2019 17: 31
        +5
        Quote: Tarkhan
        There will be no Leadership while they write - we are Leading.

        As they say, "do not confuse warm with soft." Otherwise, you will lead.
  31. Antokha
    Antokha 8 January 2019 14: 43
    +3
    That is, it is B2. Doing the same, but so late? Since we are doing B2, should we sadly believe that his concept is the best to overcome, including our air defense, and there’s nothing better to come up with? Then the Americans are geniuses, they have come up with this and lied for a long time. I foresee the minuses, but my question is essentially not to belittle ours.
    1. Adimius38
      Adimius38 8 January 2019 18: 56
      -1
      Yes, most likely the matter is simply the development of hundreds of billions. Why do we need a second B2, IF WE ourselves taunt that these invisibles are visible even with old air defense systems.
  32. loki565
    loki565 8 January 2019 14: 50
    +1
    We have not made a "flying wing" like planes yet ??? If subsonic, it will be something like B-2 Spirit
  33. The Siberian barber
    The Siberian barber 8 January 2019 15: 14
    +1
    Awesome news: "they will start soon" !!)))
    The neighbor, to the question "When the Holiday will end?", Also answered: "Soon!" laughing
    Like news, but not "very" ...))
  34. Old26
    Old26 8 January 2019 15: 32
    +1
    Quote: Hypersound
    Another plus - I’m sure that the development of our iron will be much cheaper than the $ 70 billion spent by the United States on the first B-2 (and the B-21 will be even more expensive). And each copy will not cost $ 1 billion, but much less

    Unlike us, the Americans have one thing. EXPERIENCE. Experience in the design and operation of such machines. We start from scratch. And we will fill the bumps. Therefore, what our TU will result in is still unknown. This also applies to money and time ...
    1. Waldemar
      Waldemar 9 January 2019 04: 11
      +1
      not from scratch. to be honest
  35. K-50
    K-50 8 January 2019 15: 46
    -1
    "Messenger"

    Sends everyone to Hell forever? what winked laughing
  36. yurikh
    yurikh 8 January 2019 16: 41
    0
    They came up with the name, so there’s nothing to add.
  37. Tarasios
    Tarasios 8 January 2019 17: 13
    +1
    Even 20-30 years ago, "flying saucers" and "mysterious flying triangles" were fashionable scarecrows. Over time, I see that the form of the current combat aviation is increasingly beginning to resemble the "alien standard";)
  38. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 8 January 2019 17: 15
    0
    Quote: Random
    Quote: NEXUS
    So let's not talk about 50 years either.

    I gave you the numbers "voiced" by the Tupolev Design Bureau on M3M wink
    Quote: NEXUS
    But now we have what we have.

    Andrei ... at the moment we have in the cities of RO there are simply MOUNTAINS of garbage (all streets including central and courtyards wassat ), which is not exported (in fact), since the operator has changed ("changed" bully ) from December 29 to today am
    Well, the third day there is NO water NO from the word ABSOLUTELY).
    The snow that we carry in buckets in the bathtubs and drown with heat guns has started.
    And you say .. 21st century .. PAK yes ... "get up off our knees" wassat wink



    In Novosibirsk, a plant for the disposal of any waste with the exit in the form of gasoline has long been developed
    or tanning salons ... But who needs it? laughing tongue wassat
  39. STALKER
    STALKER 8 January 2019 18: 07
    0
    I would suggest the name "Ambassador"
  40. smaug78
    smaug78 8 January 2019 18: 22
    0
    stuffing and lies
  41. Separ
    Separ 8 January 2019 18: 46
    0
    "Messenger" - FROM THERE .. am
  42. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 8 January 2019 18: 52
    0
    Messenger = messenger = angel. It’s symbolic, however.
  43. Well, how else
    Well, how else 8 January 2019 20: 27
    0
    The plans are good. But why talk about them. After these stories, look that the war will begin in 2021 in the fall. Why fall? Westerly winds blow often. They will start as usual from the buttock, but the wind will carry everything to Siberia. Something like this.
  44. bone1
    bone1 8 January 2019 21: 01
    0
    And what are you planning to create for us? -Build, adopt, then boast. But the name is cool - "Messenger" laughing
  45. pvv113
    pvv113 8 January 2019 22: 59
    0
    PAK YES "Messenger"

    Very symbolic!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 January 2019 23: 10
      0
      "Messenger of Death" would be grandiose in general.
      1. pvv113
        pvv113 8 January 2019 23: 12
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        "Messenger of Death" would be grandiose in general.

        There is a reasonable grain in this, but not humanely wink
  46. VSrostagro
    VSrostagro 9 January 2019 00: 38
    0
    That everybody is out of control. unrealistic ..., after 50 years no sooner ...
    The design has been worked out since the 80s, + new materials, + engines that are already put on the modernized Tu-160 and Tu-22M3.
    The main difficulty in the 80s was the stability in flight of the "tailless", since then programs for on-board computers have been developed (more precisely, the methods for creating such), all current Sushki and MIGs are stabilized by electronics.
    I think there are reasons for cautious optimism.
    And the name is good.
    1. Waldemar
      Waldemar 9 January 2019 04: 09
      0
      I prefer the code names in the USSR. and it’s sterile somehow
  47. Waldemar
    Waldemar 9 January 2019 04: 07
    0
    begin, begin, begin to begin.
    already 2019 is in the yard
  48. plotnikov561956
    plotnikov561956 9 January 2019 06: 21
    0
    One question ... at what plants and who ...?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 9 January 2019 10: 15
      -1
      At KAPO, most likely, they will do a separate production assembly plant, since 50 Tu 160 should be mainly done.
  49. Miron
    Miron 9 January 2019 06: 41
    0
    Times are vague. There is nothing to tease geese. We learn that they were, are in 25 years. Now it’s not the newspapers that we need to poke around with advertising secrets, now we need to drive the Yankees from Syria.

    And if necessary, then it is possible without testing. Grandfathers did this when they really needed to.
  50. Stalinist
    Stalinist 9 January 2019 12: 23
    -2
    Well, 50 years after the Americans, the Russians have grown to copy the B-2
    1. VSrostagro
      VSrostagro 9 January 2019 13: 31
      -1
      Russians have grown to copy B-2

      Pick up a ballpoint pen. Examine carefully. Now make a copy of it.
      Can not? Then do not write nonsense.
      1. clidon
        clidon 9 January 2019 16: 05
        0
        This is because he did not grow up to copying a ballpoint pen, how did our aviation industry grow up to copying a B-2?
        1. VSrostagro
          VSrostagro 9 January 2019 18: 39
          0
          In a complex technique, the concept of "copying" is generally nonsense.
          And even more so, to declare because of the external similarity that this copying is simply not smart.
          1. clidon
            clidon 9 January 2019 19: 17
            0
            Remember this when the discussion of Chinese technology begins. )
            1. VSrostagro
              VSrostagro 9 January 2019 21: 09
              0
              They not only "sculpted" copies, but also developed technologies.
              If technology could be "copied", the Chinese would have overtaken us and the Americans long ago.
              1. clidon
                clidon 9 January 2019 21: 29
                0
                Of course, "similar technical problems give rise to similar solutions." But for some reason, this does not satisfy everyone.
                However, if this will reassure you, I agree - copying is proceeding rather at a conceptual level, which involves the achievement of a certain technical perfection. It's funny that until recently they (B-2) were ridiculed. Well, not in the first.