Military Review

The game of "cat and mouse" on the Black Sea theater has begun. Can we cope without the anaerobic "killers" of the CUG project 677?

210
Just the day before yesterday, when the Coast Guard patrol boat “TCSG29” of our “Turkish friends” was calmly escorted, as well as the humble silence of official Ankara, the ship of the Royal Navy's hydrographic reconnaissance ship entered the Black Sea under the cover of twilight. fleet Great Britain HMS “Echo” (H87), whose main goal is far from being officially announced to the media as “ensuring freedom of navigation in the region”, and a detailed mapping of the bottom topography of the shallowest northwestern sections of the Black Sea through modern active sonar systems to facilitate the detection of diesel -electric submarines pr. 636.3 Varshavyanka by British anti-submarine frigates of the Duke class and American multipurpose destroyers of the URO Arleigh Burke, which will advance into the region at the beginning e next year.




The HMS “Echo” passage through the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus took place without the usual noise and dust (as it usually happened when the surface ships of the 6 of the US Navy Operational Fleet entered), and therefore our mass media began to publish news about an 18 hour late. And the main reason for this is not so much the fact of the “Echo” crossing the straits at night, but the silence of the event by official military-diplomatic sources, and perhaps the requirement for local media to keep their mouths shut. This fact is not surprising, because literally a couple of days before that, Mr. Erdogan quite unexpectedly announced to everyone that the contract for the supply of multi-purpose 5 F-35A Block 3F F-120A Block 100F “Lightning-II” fighters to the Turkish air force viable, and Ankara is looking to get 2 machines of this type, while the original terms of the contract between Lockheed Martin and the Turkish government through foreign military sales included the supply of an 4 fighter y "Lightning-400". Consequently, the contract with Rosoboronexport for the supply of the Turkish army 35 of the C-20 anti-aircraft missile system Triumph suddenly ceased to be a stumbling block in the execution of the purchase of American F-XNUMXA; Plus, before the Turks also loomed a bonus in the form of an increase in the number of machines purchased on XNUMX units.

And here a completely adequate question arises: for which “buns” from the Turkish leadership did the US State Department and the White House again give the green light to further fulfill the contract, and even with the impressive F-5A links in the form of 35? The answer here is one. We are talking about giving the US Navy and the Royal Navy of Great Britain complete freedom of action in the Black Sea (including unimpeded traffic of individual and also surface combat ships of NATO Naval Forces) for a period of possible large-scale conflict in the Azov-Black Sea region. Moreover, in the event Moscow claims to Ankara about aiding the “arbitrariness” of the US and British fleets in the Black Sea region, the Turkish side can easily argue their actions by complying with the key provisions of the Montreux Convention even if they are regularly violated by the North Atlantic Alliance. What else could be expected from the corrupt environment of Recep Erdogan ... However, the situation with the "idlib gaddyushnik" demonstrated everything.

We are now much more concerned about the acoustic secrecy of the underwater component of the Russian Navy’s Black Sea Fleet from hydroacoustic complexes deployed both on the HMS “Echo” hydrographic reconnaissance ship and the Duke 23 anti-submarine frigates, and on missile control destroyers weapons class "Arleigh Burke". Considering the fact that diesel-electric submarines of the 636.3 Pr. Varshavyanka have a noise level of the order of 48 — 52 dB with a natural background in 45 dB, and the small geographic size of the Black Sea allows them to operate in almost the whole water area on a quiet run (2 —4 node) and timely reach the launch of 533-mm torpedoes UGST “Physicist-2” with a radius of 50 km on NATO naval ships, it will be extremely difficult to reveal their location even by means of “Bulb” sonar systems AN / SQS-53C. An even more challenging task will be the direction finding of Varshavyanok from a distance of more than 150 — 200 km, from where they can easily use 3-xxx high-maneuverable XRUMXX3E Caliber-PL missiles, which are capable of penetrating the “Sea Umbrellas” of outdated shipboard SIRS of the Sea Wolf. on frigates such as "Duke".

But there is a negative point. These submarines are equipped with standard diesel-electric power plants, which require an ascent to the surface every 24 hour to recharge lead-acid batteries in the RDP mode. Even despite the fact that the submarines of 636.3 Ave., given the geographical advantages of the Black Sea, have the ability to recharge batteries in areas covered by the Crimean anti-aircraft missile divisions of the C-400 Triumph, their launch into the RDP and the launch of diesel generators will inevitably mean snorkel detection using AN / APY-10 airborne radars in the reverse synthetic aperture mode (ISAR), detection of diesel fuel combustion products using gas analyzers, or direction finding of infrared radiation from combustion products I use diesel fuel via the IR channel used by the MX-20HD optical-electronic complexes. All this equipment is available to the P-8A "Poseidon" antisubmarine aircraft. After that, the Poseidon can place several active-passive radio-hydro-acoustic buoys at once in the areas of the intended passage of the Russian diesel-electric submarines after the end of the recharging process and access to the open sea. Naturally, in this situation, the beginning of the support turns into a very real scenario with all the ensuing consequences.

This problem could be eliminated by adopting the 4 separate submarine brigade of the Black Sea Fleet for even more low noise and advanced anaerobic submarines of 677 Avenue Lada, which are able to stay under water for more than 15 — 20 days thanks to the use of a fundamentally new air-independent power plant, represented electrochemical generator, operating due to the reforming of diesel fuel. But today, despite a completely objective assessment of the parameters of the brainchild of the Admiralty Shipyards by numerous analytical RuNet portals, it can be stated that we will not have time to use these silent "KUG Killers" in the impending military clash in the Black Sea A related type submarine is the B-585 "St. Petersburg" in a standard diesel-electric version.

Information sources:
http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/677_LADA.html
https://twitter.com/Saturn5_/status/1074720267631509504
https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2018/12/18/korabl-razvedchik-hms-echo-vms-velikobritanii-voshel-v-chernoe-more-smi
http://airwar.ru/enc/sea/p8.html
Author:
210 comments
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  1. Tatar 174
    Tatar 174 19 December 2018 05: 20
    +15
    Hyenas are selected ... About the venality of the Turks it has been said many times and there is nothing to add ...
    1. ver_
      ver_ 19 December 2018 05: 31
      -15
      ... Turks - * feral Russians * ..
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 19 December 2018 05: 48
        +3
        The Turks all their lives sat on the fence and looked where to jump, or pretended to jump!
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 19 December 2018 06: 08
          +19
          recently they boasted that the Black Sea was being shot from the shore, and now Damantsev's panic, boats with "anaerobic" no, everything is gone.
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 19 December 2018 06: 41
            +1
            But I want it like in the old days, a torpedo aboard .... In vain or something, the boats were built!
            1. faiver
              faiver 19 December 2018 07: 13
              -4
              And like in the old, torpedo in the side
              - maybe better stone core? bully
              1. Uncle lee
                Uncle lee 19 December 2018 07: 15
                +2
                It is possible and the core! And then boarding!
                1. Akuzenka
                  Akuzenka 19 December 2018 12: 42
                  +1
                  Saryn for the bite !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
              2. Nyrobsky
                Nyrobsky 19 December 2018 11: 17
                +4
                Quote: faiver
                And like in the old, torpedo in the side
                - maybe better stone core? bully

                It will be in the next war. After the third world war, people from the world of high technology will return to the Stone Age and everything will start from the beginning - digging sticks, stone axes, peaks, bows, etc. recourse
                1. Urs
                  Urs 19 December 2018 15: 38
                  +3
                  Oh well, the fastest survivors will learn the profession of a miner miner, because a person can reach the surface no earlier than 300 years later
              3. Dr. Hub
                Dr. Hub 19 December 2018 22: 04
                0
                Stone cores in the next war will be
          2. Aibolit
            Aibolit 19 December 2018 16: 10
            +4
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            and now Damantsev has a panic, boats with "anaerobic" no, everything is gone.

            Quote: Yevgeny Damantsev
            The game of "cat and mouse" on the Black Sea theater has begun. Can we cope without the anaerobic "killers" of the CUG project 677?

            STOP IT - before it's too late

            otherwise, RenTV will lose advertising revenue, and the number of inadequate incomes will increase significantly.
            1. DarkMatter
              DarkMatter 19 December 2018 18: 22
              +2
              Well, you are a Doctor, Aibolit =))
              Act soldier
              1. Aibolit
                Aibolit 19 December 2018 19: 30
                +2
                Quote: DarkMatter
                Well, you are a Doctor, Aibolit =))

                Well, he doesn’t hurt anything!
                UGST "Physicist-2" ... NATO Naval Forces, .. it will be extremely difficult to reveal their location even by means of "bulbs" ... AN / SQS-53C. ... to use 3-speed highly maneuverable anti-ship missile systems 3M54E "Caliber-PL", capable of easily breaking through the "anti-missile umbrellas" of the outdated Sea Wolf air defense systems installed on Duke-class frigates ...
                radars AN / APY-10 in the mode of the inverted synthetic aperture (ISAR), .... optical-electronic complexes MX-20HD. ... P-8A "Poseidon

                It seems to be a topic, but essentially a meaningless listing of everything and everyone.
                Oh yes.. FORGOTTEN comrade the main thing (horse) GREAT AND HORRIBLE zone A2 / 2D !!!
                she, besides the author, is adored by the "igpers" from NI
                Barın Kayaoğlu, Bleda Kurtdarcan and others like him
          3. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 19 December 2018 23: 53
            +4
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            and now Damancev has a panic

            Hi, Jurich! hi
            God bless her, panic. The main thing is not to sculpt a hunchback: neophiles can take his "reasoning" on the themes of the Fleet at face value! And this is not good ...
            1. I can’t understand it in any way: why do I need to beat the AB charge every 24 h, if it keeps the density normally?
            2. There is a device for the operation of a diesel engine under water, and the gas exhaust from DG and DG D-49 goes under water. And if in the area there are ships with remote control, then you can wipe the analyzer.
            3. Infrared location is a necessary thing, but only in the open sea. And if your course was crossed several times, then the occupation is senseless and extremely hopeless ...
            4. The boat under the RDP is now an extremely rare sight. It is easier to get to the board (to hide behind) a dry cargo ship or your own PM / PB and fight off the charge. At the same time and ventilate the compartments through the end ...
            Somehow, however. AHA. yes
            1. gunnerminer
              gunnerminer 20 December 2018 10: 18
              0
              -It’s easier to stand on board (cover up) with a bulk carrier or your PM / PB and deflect the charge .-

              In peacetime.
              1. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 20 December 2018 19: 39
                0
                Quote: gunnerminer
                In peacetime.

                So no one knows what may appear on board our DPL in wartime. Maybe the analogue of WOW-6 has long been waiting in the wings ...
                The story is silent about that, and knowledgeable people do not idle talk on sites.
                AHA.
                1. muradministrator
                  muradministrator 21 December 2018 17: 51
                  0
                  - So no one knows what can appear on board our DPL in wartime. -

                  That made 40 years ago. Plus torpedo-loading devices stored on TTB. Outdated GPD devices (MG-74 at best). Torpedoes UGST only in a practical version.

                  -Maybe analogue of VAU-6 has long been waiting in the wings ..-

                  Even no plans.
                  Missing intelligence. All species. For LDP, it’s the last thing. Lack of even a hint of VNEU, chemical regeneration of a sample of the 30s.
          4. lopvlad
            lopvlad 20 December 2018 04: 56
            +2
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            Now Damantsev has a panic, boats with "anaerobic" no, everything is gone.


            he’s even in the bath at home without a rebreather, not a foot. Suddenly the enemy will have to lie down.
          5. VSrostagro
            VSrostagro 20 December 2018 23: 21
            +1
            boasted that the Black Sea from the coast all shot

            So to whom do you have claims, to bouncers or Damantsev?
            Or to yourself, that bouncers believe?
          6. hydrox
            hydrox 23 December 2018 07: 11
            0
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            and now Damancev has a panic

            And what, all the analysts of VO were engaged in figure skating, and Damantsev is an academician in this matter?
            For me, the integral opinion of the "top war" general staff is more expensive than the opinion of the top and often engaged observers ...
      2. Shiryon
        Shiryon 19 December 2018 20: 14
        -11
        No problem. Raise your retirement age for a year - and 4 separate submarine teams will receive anaerobic submarines. For a year or more, a massive supply of Armat will be provided. Add a couple more years, and a hundred peerless SU-57 will be put into operation. Either as an option, or to cancel expensive vaccinations for children, it will be possible to buy an additional battalion of armatures.
        1. Lunt
          Lunt 20 December 2018 00: 22
          -4
          Can be made easier. While a person can work, do not let go of retirement. That's all. As a result, some especially healthy ones will retire at 90-100 years. And they themselves will not be bored at home, and society will benefit.
        2. lopvlad
          lopvlad 20 December 2018 04: 58
          +2
          but you can not invest at all and get the fate of the American Indians.
    2. kakvastam
      kakvastam 19 December 2018 10: 25
      0
      If a well-established characteristic of an object is ignored during planning, questions should be asked to the planner.
    3. Siberia 9444
      Siberia 9444 19 December 2018 11: 05
      0
      Where are the comments: as usual "everything is gone" by Damenets laughing laughing laughing
    4. antivirus
      antivirus 19 December 2018 14: 39
      0
      Erdogan Gulen buys
      and we give him "money" - bonuses for payment
  2. afrikanez
    afrikanez 19 December 2018 05: 35
    +1
    Without anaerobic boats, we will be "tight". recourse
    1. ver_
      ver_ 19 December 2018 06: 08
      -8
      ... the other day they wrote chi sho NAPL St. Petersburg became a good fellow .. I’m making fun of Choi ...
    2. 3vs
      3vs 19 December 2018 07: 55
      -5
      So you need to introduce a ratsuha - part of the crew to pedal to generate electricity instead of a diesel engine!
      True, then the question arises of increased oxygen consumption by turning pedals ...
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 19 December 2018 11: 38
        0
        Quote: 3vs
        So you need to introduce a ratsuha - part of the crew to pedal to generate electricity instead of a diesel engine!
        True, then the question arises of increased oxygen consumption by turning pedals ...

        Yeah. Did you turn to the Ukrians for experience? They have such a station wagon. Silent at all. She walks as she pleases - sometimes on oars, then under sail, but as a rule she does not go anywhere at all.
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 19 December 2018 12: 58
          +3
          Quote: Nyrobsky
          wagon boat.

          It is tightly welded to the pier, otherwise it will drown! And he walks only for himself ...
          1. Harry.km
            Harry.km 22 December 2018 00: 30
            -1
            Quote: Uncle Lee
            otherwise drown

            Otherwise, take off! Further in the text ....
    3. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 December 2018 08: 13
      +2
      Protecting the coast is a complex task. The presence of VNEU is not enough. First of all, the lack of naval reconnaissance and attack aircraft, KPUG, and reconnaissance modern ships affects it.
      1. 3vs
        3vs 19 December 2018 11: 45
        +2
        If, in fact, a detailed map of the relief of the coastal bottom is drawn up, then it’s quite
        it becomes possible to find a submarine in the background of this relief, not even making noise ...
        We also seem to have, or in development, judging by the articles, a submarine for the same tasks.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 December 2018 12: 06
          +2
          -If, in fact, a detailed map of the relief of the coastal bottom will be compiled, then it’s quite

          The bottom map is only part of the necessary. Up to the bottom of the Black Sea, the crew of the boat does not maneuver, the depths significantly exceed the maximum depth for the hull of the boat 636.3

          -We seem to have one too or in development, judging by the articles, a submarine for the same tasks-

          The enemy is threatened not by development, but by combat-ready ships, with trained line crews. Before such a condition as to the moon on the donkey. And these boats need to be connected.
          1. NordUral
            NordUral 19 December 2018 14: 10
            +2
            The enemy is threatened not by development, but by combat-ready ships, with trained line crews. Before such a condition as to the moon on the donkey. And these boats need to be connected. And there is nothing to add from the censorship.
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 23 December 2018 07: 28
              +1
              Quote: NordUral
              The enemy is threatened not by development, but by combat-ready ships, with trained line crews. Before such a state as before the moon on the donkey.

              And forget to think! Until Putin decides to replace the liberal political and economic paradigm with a social and economic one, all resources, finances and programs will only be stolen by the authorities, not realized !!
              The more the population is impoverished - the less taxes it pays, and the less commodity circulation it makes - under these conditions, the budget and economy (together with the population !!) can only die, but not grow, therefore money in the right amount of defense industry WILL NOT!
          2. 3vs
            3vs 19 December 2018 14: 40
            0
            Judging by the article, the construction of the submarine will begin in 2020 year.
            https://nplus1.ru/news/2017/05/03/submarine

            "The bottom map is only part of what is needed. The crew of the boat will not maneuver until the bottom of the Black Sea."
            As I understand it, a three-dimensional map of coastal waters is being built.
            A boat will change this information in any way, and the principle of detection is built on this,
            even if the boat goes at low speed or lays on the ground, they will find it.
            1. Nizhlogger
              Nizhlogger 19 December 2018 16: 20
              +2
              The Argentinean sunken San Juan was searched all year. All and sundry. Including us. And only treasure hunters found for a fee.
              1. 3vs
                3vs 19 December 2018 16: 37
                0
                So, therefore, they did not find that there was no bottom map, if there had been, compared the data, found the changes, found the boat ...
                1. Nizhlogger
                  Nizhlogger 19 December 2018 16: 42
                  +3
                  There is a coastal zone. It is highly unlikely that the Angles or the Argentines themselves did not have such a card. There is more likely something else. Depth from a kilometer. At such a depth, a map with a good resolution cannot be made and changes are even more difficult to track changes. So what about "find" strongly depends on the depth.
                  1. 3vs
                    3vs 19 December 2018 16: 46
                    0
                    "Depth from a kilometer."
                    That's right, because the British make a map of the coastal zone of the Black Sea coast.
                    At the same time, the pipes of the blue and Turkish streams will be noted at home, if that ...
                    1. Nizhlogger
                      Nizhlogger 19 December 2018 16: 55
                      0
                      Let them do it. There will be no sense from her anyway. Our unsinkable aircraft carrier Crimea will not hunt for our submarines. Do not start the third world because of the map.
                      1. 3vs
                        3vs 19 December 2018 21: 43
                        0
                        But gas pipes at the bottom can be damaged, if ...
                      2. Nizhlogger
                        Nizhlogger 19 December 2018 23: 36
                        +1
                        they themselves worry about their ocean cables more than ours
                      3. 3vs
                        3vs 20 December 2018 06: 44
                        +1
                        And rightly so!
                        If it goes to extremes, then it’s not to sentiment ...
          3. The comment was deleted.
  3. jonht
    jonht 19 December 2018 05: 52
    +7
    Do not climb, neither the FSA, not the Britons to fight for ukrov in the Black Sea, they are there DEATH ....
    The only option, only a lot of vector invasion, from the Baltic, from the Black Sea and from Poland ....
    But are the Britons ready for war with us? The FSA is ready to let loose money on us and stand aside, but will we let them stand apart?
    1. Grits
      Grits 19 December 2018 13: 28
      +6
      And what's the point of our Varshavyanka at a speed of 2 knots to get to the adversary in the Black Sea in order to launch a torpedo from 50 km into it? Also, what is the point of the adversary to look for our submarines in the Black Sea? I will say even more - what is the point of being in the Black Sea Fleet as a part of the Black Sea Fleet?
      After all, it is known that almost the entire Black Sea is shot through by missile coastal complexes of the Bastion. And those closer - Ball. And those that are very close - by the shore. This is not counting the aircraft that will work with Crimean airfields. In the event of a collapse, the adversary on the surface ship will be instantly annihilated, without even resorting to the forces of the fleet.
      Is it because half of the submarines are now practically based in Tartus? Perhaps, for the same reason, all diesels of the Black Sea Fleet will go there
      1. VSrostagro
        VSrostagro 20 December 2018 23: 43
        +1
        will be instantly annihilated

        They also have annihilators ...
        You would have thrown caps from Moscow, but there is no target designation ... as for real forces and means, you need to know where to throw the hat.
    2. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 20 December 2018 12: 46
      +1
      40 US senators demanded that Trump conduct an international military operation against Russia in the Black Sea to unblock the Kerch Strait. "

      But this news is already interesting.
  4. Chichikov
    Chichikov 19 December 2018 06: 05
    +3
    In addition to torpedoes on boats, on this theater, we have nothing more? hi
    1. Russia
      Russia 19 December 2018 06: 12
      +3
      hi There are coastal snacks, they will be provided with online lighting, they will always be faced with a choice.
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 19 December 2018 08: 14
        -3
        - There are delicious sea sweets -

        Without intelligence support, without helicopter and other external sources of target designation and guidance.

        -Lighting online they will be provided

        Only in pictures, and in cartoons.
        1. Russia
          Russia 19 December 2018 08: 17
          +5
          This is for you cartoons, and for others a multi-part feature film. wink
          1. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 19 December 2018 08: 30
            +1
            Art.
            1. Russia
              Russia 19 December 2018 08: 33
              +4
              Yes, yes, but for posterity, but only later, documentary. wink
              1. gunnerminer
                gunnerminer 19 December 2018 08: 36
                -1
                For the documentary, it is necessary to develop the backward metallurgical, chemical, and electronic industries. The command of the KChF remained virtually without sea and air reconnaissance. without systems and complexes of over-horizon target designation.
                1. jonht
                  jonht 19 December 2018 14: 30
                  0
                  This is where in our metallurgists lagged behind, and give a report about chemists?
                  1. gunnerminer
                    gunnerminer 20 December 2018 12: 48
                    0
                    metallurgists brew what is indicated to them. Scientists of metallurgists and engineers are left behind.

                    - And about the chemists give a report? -

                    The result of their low competence is flour with AFAR for radar, with VNEU, with permanent magnet motors.
                    1. jonht
                      jonht 20 December 2018 22: 48
                      0
                      So where is the answer about our lag? Read about AFAR at your leisure, and if the aviation complex is unfinished, it does not mean yet, all the radars are unfinished. And questions of metallurgy, what is an example of lag and what?
                      1. muradministrator
                        muradministrator 21 December 2018 17: 53
                        0
                        - metallurgy issues; what example is the lag and what? -

                        A prototype AFAR comes out in a ton. VNEU is the size of a railway wagon.
                      2. jonht
                        jonht 22 December 2018 00: 49
                        +1
                        And so little? Just a ton ... And why not three? You are to your delirium, at least throw some sort of reference where you dug it. And about the link about chemists and metallurgists, otherwise I can also say, for example, you are a troop from geyropa .... There is not much truth in this, but the flood is 100%.
                      3. hydrox
                        hydrox 23 December 2018 07: 42
                        0
                        That’s why there are liberscales to minus them - here minus, but do not feed the troll! ...
                2. Urs
                  Urs 19 December 2018 15: 48
                  0
                  This is where such infa comes from.
                  And what do you think, for the runway Belbek runway, the airdrome infrastructure has been modernized and improved. By the way, our strategist, the drone, is going to go on a run-in internship there next year.
                  1. gunnerminer
                    gunnerminer 20 December 2018 12: 49
                    0
                    -And by the way, our strategist drone next year goes there for a run-in internship .-

                    This novelty of 10 years is repeated in different ways.

                    -And what do you think the runway Belbek’s runway is modernized -

                    Modernization requires not only the runway.
        2. Andrey Chistyakov
          Andrey Chistyakov 19 December 2018 09: 21
          -3
          Quote: gunnerminer
          - There are delicious sea sweets -

          Without intelligence support, without helicopter and other external sources of target designation and guidance.

          -Lighting online they will be provided

          Only in pictures, and in cartoons.

          Without your comments, we generally have nothing to catch ....
          1. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 19 December 2018 10: 24
            +3
            You didn’t have to destroy mobilization readiness, military education and military medicine. Do not throw hundreds of thousands of officers, warrant officers, warrant officers, midshipmen and contract soldiers of the rank and file, sergeant and senior officers. Yesterday general Colonel Popovkin was shown at the college. He approved collapse reductions, which only You can. And he also nods his head at the college, endorsing attempts to plug a personnel hole. The matter reached the point that the only British reconnaissance ship poses a threat to the KChF.
            1. Andrey Chistyakov
              Andrey Chistyakov 19 December 2018 10: 27
              -5
              Quote: gunnerminer
              You didn’t have to destroy mobilization readiness, military education and military medicine. Do not throw hundreds of thousands of officers, warrant officers, warrant officers, midshipmen and contract soldiers of the rank and file, sergeant and senior officers. Yesterday general Colonel Popovkin was shown at the college. He approved collapse reductions, which only You can. And he also nods his head at the college, endorsing attempts to plug a personnel hole. The matter reached the point that the only British reconnaissance ship poses a threat to the KChF.

              You write in large letters on a piece of paper and hang it on the wall. Learn about cartoons. Gauges in Syria were not cartoons for barmaley! Change the mantra !!!!
              1. gunnerminer
                gunnerminer 19 December 2018 10: 36
                0
                - Learn about cartoons. Gauges in Syria were not cartoons for barmaley! -

                Your main opponents are by no means barmalees who do not have air defense, electronic warfare equipment, using trophy armored vehicles. The ammunition of the Caliber complex on the Syrian bridgehead was used non-standard, shortened volleys, at stationary objects. A radical fracture was achieved by realizing air strikes from Persian and since then, due to the complete lack of border control and the province of Idlib.
                1. Andrey Chistyakov
                  Andrey Chistyakov 19 December 2018 10: 38
                  -2
                  Quote: gunnerminer
                  - Learn about cartoons. Gauges in Syria were not cartoons for barmaley! -

                  Your main opponents are by no means barmalees who do not have air defense, electronic warfare equipment, using trophy armored vehicles. The ammunition of the Caliber complex on the Syrian bridgehead was used non-standard, shortened volleys, at stationary objects. A radical fracture was achieved by realizing air strikes from Persian and since then, due to the complete lack of border control and the province of Idlib.

                  I will not stop you from raving. Why didn’t they break it before ?! Do not suffer. Do not answer.
                  1. gunnerminer
                    gunnerminer 19 December 2018 10: 41
                    -1
                    - Well, why didn’t they break it before ?! Do not suffer. Do not answer.-

                    They achieved results without using ammunition. Thanks to illiterate and ill-conceived measures to organize the acceleration and restructuring of the economy of the USSR, the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee.
                2. Urs
                  Urs 19 December 2018 15: 58
                  +1
                  Sounds good ----- airstrikes by the Persian and Hezbollah infantry ---.
                  And who told you that the strikes with "calibers" were aimed at destroying the entire "igil".
                  The task was completely different, the destruction of tactically important targets such as warehouses for storing weapons and other weapons, an enterprise manufacturing weapons, and of course the most important test of new control and guidance systems. Everything else is ground-based.
                  And what about the border, yes I agree. Only the trouble is that what we call the border, in the "sandbox" in the eyes did not see 80% of its length.
                  How do you imagine the border in areas where rain happens once every 100 years and even lizards do not live.
                  1. gunnerminer
                    gunnerminer 19 December 2018 18: 02
                    -1
                    - The task was completely different, -

                    The task was to impress the command of the Coalition and ISIS. But this demonstration did not contribute to a radical change. And the Turkish militants did not run away from Idlib.

                    -, in the "sandbox" in the eyes did not see at 80% of its length.

                    Offensive on the Afghan rake.
                    1. Nyrobsky
                      Nyrobsky 19 December 2018 22: 27
                      +2
                      Quote: gunnerminer
                      - The task was completely different, -
                      The task was to impress the command of the Coalition and ISIS. Only this demonstration did not contribute to a radical change.
                      Well, well ...... That over the years of undivided dominance of coalition forces on land and in the air, where up to 60 countries were bored, the territories controlled by ISIS expanded steadily, and the situation with the survival of legitimate power in Syria was practically reduced to zero, when the complete dismantling of Syria’s statehood was not months but months, only one Russian intervention changed the situation by 180 degrees. In less than three years, more than 85% of the territory has been returned to Damascus control.
                      Quote: gunnerminer
                      And the Turkish militants did not run away from Idlib.
                      This is not Russia's problem - this is Erdogan's problem. Along the way, Erdogan intends to abide by these agreements with some delay, while he settles some "misunderstandings" with mattresses relying on their sanity in this matter, since he has no other options, like the Americans. By the way, the United States was going to get up on skis and leave Syria, while conveying "warm greetings" to the Kurds. If Edik does not solve the undertaken obligations within the agreed time, then this problem will be solved by the forces of the Russian Aerospace Forces and the SAA.
                      Quote: gunnerminer
                      Offensive on the Afghan rake.

                      From the side of the Americans - definitely, only in the Syrian version.
                      1. gunnerminer
                        gunnerminer 20 December 2018 10: 41
                        0
                        -This is not the problem of Russia-this is the problem of Erdogan .-

                        Representatives of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation constantly spoke about territorial integrity and the fight against terrorism.

                        -On the part of the Americans - definitely, only in the Syrian version .-

                        Certainly, but they will not restore the destroyed Afghan villages. Russian military builders will have to restore the Syrian ruins. The amount of expenses is at least 200 billion US dollars. Not superfluous in the budget of the Russian Federation.

                        -For less than three years, more than 85% of the territory has been returned to Damascus control. -

                        The goal of the appearance of Khmeimim was not achieved. They started to worry. There will be huge expenses, even for the budget of the EU and the USA, to support the Asadists.
  5. passerby
    passerby 19 December 2018 06: 18
    +11
    "Aiding arbitrariness"? What could the Turks not let this ship into the Black Sea? Some kind of stupid attempt to escalate the situation. Well, the ship came in, and then what? Never been like this, and here again?
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 19 December 2018 08: 34
      -1
      If only he entered and exited, then Neptune would be with him! So he reptile will work on the Black Sea bottom for his ships! Do we need this?
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 19 December 2018 08: 54
        -4
        You need to passively observe his work on the opening of the underwater and surface situation.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 19 December 2018 23: 03
          +1
          Quote: gunnerminer
          You need to passively observe his work on the opening of the underwater and surface situation.

          Oh how! And what, even the wilderness can not be him, the disease, put!? belay
          1. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 20 December 2018 10: 42
            -2
            These jammers come from the late 60s. They have long been, although it is time to modernize.
      2. passerby
        passerby 19 December 2018 09: 55
        0
        Do we need the United States to have such a huge fleet? Do not. But what can we do about it? Nothing. Then why write such articles? As if this is the first NATO reconnaissance ship to enter the Black Sea.
        1. VSrostagro
          VSrostagro 20 December 2018 23: 55
          0
          Then why write such articles

          That VNEU developed, but not sawed money.
          If it had begun to itch earlier, she would have already stood on boats.
          1. passerby
            passerby 21 December 2018 06: 03
            0
            From writing delusional articles, VNEU will not appear. This is the same as convincing a disabled person without legs to buy prostheses when they are simply not on sale.
            1. VSrostagro
              VSrostagro 21 December 2018 11: 29
              0
              It’s certainly much more effective to pretend that everything is fine and we will throw all the hats on.
              1. passerby
                passerby 21 December 2018 16: 01
                0
                Here, he “pretends” and promises to throw all his hats on, you write. Why are you writing this to me, did I promise to throw someone in hats?
      3. Tiksi-3
        Tiksi-3 19 December 2018 11: 41
        0
        Quote: sabakina
        Do we need this?

        and they type ask us whether we need it or not? and we can’t do anything about it ....
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 19 December 2018 23: 06
          +1
          Quote: Tiksi-3
          and we cannot do anything with it ...

          International Maritime Law ... yes
          Freedom of navigation and other activities in the international waters of the high seas - guaranteed. fellow
          1. gunnerminer
            gunnerminer 20 December 2018 10: 46
            0
            -International Law of the Sea

            Due to the tiny shock capabilities of the KChF and South Ossetia.

            -guaranteed.-

            Well, Erdogan Pasha would instantly block the straits, under a plausible pretext. Since September 2018, he has been demonstrating this matter. He introduced the rule of passage for gas carriers only during daylight hours, accompanied by tugboats. Not to complain about it. As a result of the freight managers, Artem Kuzin rushes about, trying accidentally to find an approach to the VTS of the straits. The batches of ammonia of Togliatti and Bereznikovsky depended.
      4. Sergei71
        Sergei71 19 December 2018 20: 02
        0
        If only he entered and exited, then Neptune would be with him! So he reptile will work on the Black Sea bottom for his ships! Do we need this?

        What if they suddenly run into a German bottom mine? They did not think about that. wassat What if we remember? wink
      5. hydrox
        hydrox 23 December 2018 07: 53
        0
        Quote: sabakina
        So he reptile will work on the Black Sea bottom for his ships!

        Be patient!
        That's when Novorossia will again be controlled by Russia, then let's talk about the 200-mile economic zone of the Northern Black Sea region! ;-))
  6. Nitarius
    Nitarius 19 December 2018 06: 26
    +3
    Panic out of the blue ... what prevents inadvertently burning the brains of gentlemen in their electronics? .. nothing .. just have to slightly burn the head of this electronics! so that is all ..
    1. faiver
      faiver 19 December 2018 07: 14
      +9
      Panic on level ground
      - this is all Damantsy, he has something to live then we have two Mondays left bully
      1. VSrostagro
        VSrostagro 20 December 2018 23: 58
        0
        Calm us, tell us about the real achievements in the construction of the fleet.
    2. Snail N9
      Snail N9 19 December 2018 07: 25
      -3
      From the Mighty Khibiny sect and the cowardly Cook? wink
  7. plotnikov561956
    plotnikov561956 19 December 2018 06: 28
    +1
    Having at gunpoint all the Black Sea (Balls. Bastions) ... the question is a little not relevant ...
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 December 2018 08: 38
      -2
      -Having all the Black Sea at gunpoint (Balls. Bastions) ... the question is a little not relevant-

      Combat exercises, calculations of Balls and Bastions were carried out at maximum distances of 30-40 km. Due to the complete absence of external sources of guidance and target designation.
      1. plotnikov561956
        plotnikov561956 19 December 2018 11: 31
        +1
        maximum distance 30-40 km ...?! Lack of sources of prompting ...?! Well ... well ... Even "Kaolitsiya" was cut in 2 times ... In a word ... their words are simply not there
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 December 2018 12: 11
          -1
          -maximum distance 30-40 km ...? -

          Combat exercises by the Bastion’s calculations were carried out precisely at such distances. In view of the complete absence of search, target designation, and external guidance at horizontal distances of shooting. In conditions of massive use of electronic warfare equipment. For firing over the horizon, an external guidance source is required. Especially for maneuvering targets. Commanders of partner ships hardly so simple-minded. to drift passively, waiting for the ammunition of the Ball or Bastion complexes to fly up.
          1. Nizhlogger
            Nizhlogger 19 December 2018 16: 28
            +2
            And MIGs 31 for what? Flies fast, sees far. You just can't get it down. In the outgoing course, no missile can even if Mig is directly above the launcher.
            1. gunnerminer
              gunnerminer 19 December 2018 18: 05
              -1
              -A MIGs 31 for what? Flies fast, sees far

              There are only one and a half squadrons of their combat readiness. The MiG-31K can raise the mass-dimensional model of the Dagger only if a refueling system, a radar, and other ammunition are dismantled from it. It flies nearby. It is not the most difficult task to knock it down without a radar.

              - no missile will be able to leave the course, even if Mig is directly above the launcher.

              To do this, it is necessary to negotiate with the operators of the NATO complexes DRLOi U. That would not conduct reconnaissance and monitoring of the air situation.
              1. Nizhlogger
                Nizhlogger 19 December 2018 19: 22
                +1
                What does 31K have to do with it? Was it about target designation?
                You can safely send a reconnaissance squadron to find targets plus or minus. Yes, actually they themselves with their radars will shine half a sea. RCCs are all supersonic and with GOS. The adversary will not have time to leave.
                1. gunnerminer
                  gunnerminer 19 December 2018 20: 29
                  -1
                  -You can safely send a squadron for reconnaissance-

                  This squadron will have to be assembled in all military districts and fleets.

                  - in fact, they themselves will shine half a sea with their radars. -

                  Five years.

                  -KPR we are all supersonic and with GSN-

                  With a limited range.

                  -Far off the adversary will not have time to leave .-

                  He is so naive that he will close the shift on the radar, stop monitoring the situation and will passively wait for the arrival of anti-ship missiles.
                  1. Nizhlogger
                    Nizhlogger 19 December 2018 23: 45
                    0
                    31x actually in bulk. Dozens. Even the first radars were quite powerful. The fact that they shine is unimportant since no rocket will catch up with them if Mig starts to leave on time. There is no risk.
                    RCC range on the Black Sea is enough. To the Bosphorus. At the same time, a lone destroyer of chances to evade a dozen Caliber NK just 0.
                    Yes, no, about the Black Sea with the presence of a powerful base in the Crimea, it makes no sense even to talk. We have a lot of problems where but the Black Sea does not get into them.
                    1. gunnerminer
                      gunnerminer 20 December 2018 10: 49
                      -1
                      -31x actually in bulk. Tens

                      Their combat readiness, of all modifications, will be recruited by one and a half squadrons.

                      -No risk. -

                      Just another version of the movie to lure candidates for admission to the Air Force Center.

                      -RPC range on the Black Sea is enough. To the Bosphorus .-

                      Intelligence and guidance. with target designation and distribution of goals is not enough.

                      -one odds destroyer of chances to evade a dozen Caliber NK just 0.-

                      They will shoot with Tomahawks from the Aegean Sea. Or from the Sea of ​​Marmara. Plus aviation.
                      1. Nizhlogger
                        Nizhlogger 21 December 2018 04: 49
                        0
                        - Their combat readiness, of all modifications, will be recruited by one and a half squadrons.

                        There was a report from the factory in Nizhny where they are being upgraded in batches.

                        - Directly another version of the movie

                        Just look at the performance characteristics. 3M and a height of 20 km is too tough for any rocket if it flies after.

                        - Intelligence and guidance. with target designation and distribution of goals is not enough.

                        Enough with 31m. Why repeat it?

                        - Plus aviation. UES AIRFORCE

                        Not, well, if US AIRFORS then of course. But why then spend the Tomahawks? Yes, and from the Aegean Sea they bullet? Everyone knows that our anti-aircraft gunners as soon as they see US AIRFORS on the radars immediately shaking out the contents of their pants run to whoever. There, the main inscription is to show.
                      2. VSrostagro
                        VSrostagro 21 December 2018 11: 32
                        +1
                        How wonderful everything is here!
                        IN THEORY.
                        Like in the schoolyard ... And I, and I ... and I like DAM.
                      3. Nizhlogger
                        Nizhlogger 21 December 2018 12: 17
                        0
                        International relations look something like this.
                      4. muradministrator
                        muradministrator 21 December 2018 17: 55
                        -1
                        -y report from the factory in Nizhny where they are being upgraded in batches .-

                        A pack is one per year.

                        - just look at the performance characteristics. 3M and a height of 20 km is too tough for any rocket if it flies after .-

                        They are not fighting TTX, besides for an empty aircraft. There is no aviation intelligence.

                        - our anti-aircraft gunners as soon as they see the inscription on the radars -

                        The air defense missed 15 thousand officers, 20 thousand warrant officers.
                      5. Nizhlogger
                        Nizhlogger 22 December 2018 05: 58
                        0
                        - A pack is one a year.

                        At the same time in the workshop several gliders.

                        - also for an empty plane

                        For intelligence, just what you need.

                        - In air defense there are a shortage of 15 thousand officers, 20 thousand warrant officers.

                        Here, without ensigns, we are definitely Tryndets. Something urgently needs to be done.
                        But however, what kind of air defense we have is powerful, if only the shortage of air defense officers is 15 thousand. So perhaps for guaranteed protection against a retaliatory strike, it is enough to eliminate the shortage of officers and you can safely strike the first blow to the United States. Even a crow cannot reach us.
      2. Urs
        Urs 19 December 2018 16: 03
        +1
        In the course you are a respected some kind of scout Troll.
        Where did you get this infa what we have and what we don’t, nuka nuka specify the geographic location, you can + _ kilometer "caliber" will find you by ip repeat
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 December 2018 18: 06
          0
          -Where did you get this infa?

          Do not neglect the reading of the newspaper Kroasnaya Zvezda and the speeches of the Russian Defense Ministry.
  8. faiver
    faiver 19 December 2018 07: 07
    +4
    those. should the Turks not let the British in the Black Sea chtol? based on what is interesting?
  9. Kent0001
    Kent0001 19 December 2018 08: 05
    0
    Heresy ... if the Cernlm Sea is hunting for our submarines, then this is WAR ..... with all the consequences, and the Black Sea is completely shooting at us, so the analysis is not biased in the steppe.
  10. asp373
    asp373 19 December 2018 08: 07
    +3
    Both the snorkel and the combustion products of the diesel fuel and the curvature of the magnetic field can be detected just by flying over the boat itself. What kind of "inevitable detection from the other side of the puddle." The Navy therefore does not pedalize the creation of VNEU, because the usual diesel engine is quite suitable for use.
    If only to panic out of the blue.
    1. 5 – 9
      5 – 9 19 December 2018 08: 25
      0
      VNEU dabble in those who do not have nuclear submarines. And they are noticeably more expensive than diesel-electric submarines, but there are no critical advantages for us in our conditions either.
      Those. Of course, NAPLs are needed in the future and we will build them and have almost begun, but here and now the decision on the 636.3 series instead of the unfinished and expensive 677 is right.
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 19 December 2018 08: 31
        -6
        -VNEU indulge in those who do not have nuclear submarines .-

        The USC is in no hurry to smash the multi-purpose nuclear submarines of the Russian Navy. Yes, and nuclear submarines will not appear in the KChF.

        There are no critical advantages for us and in our conditions.

        Green grapes.
      2. Grits
        Grits 19 December 2018 13: 41
        +2
        VNEU dabble in those who do not have nuclear submarines. And they are noticeably more expensive than diesel-electric submarines, but there are no critical advantages for us in our conditions either.
        VNEU indulge in quite sane countries such as Germany, Sweden, Japan. As well as those who joined them (those that are from the abovementioned these very submarines are bought). Indeed, they do not have nuclear submarines. But, the submarine has a very serious minus against diesels - they are already noisier compared to diesels. Pumps at the rectors, you know, thundering, scum. This is not to mention the fact that in some small and small seas (the same Baltic) the action of diesel submarines is much preferable.
        1. muradministrator
          muradministrator 21 December 2018 17: 56
          0
          -the action of diesel submarines is much preferable.-

          Provided that these boats are provided with intelligence, continuous and reliable.
    2. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 December 2018 08: 34
      -4
      -tglko flying over the boat itself .-

      Not at all. Snovers on PLO aircraft allow detecting combustion products within 10-15 miles. Depending on the direction and speed of the wind. Calm sea, quite an infrequent phenomenon.

      - Therefore, the Navy does not pedal the creation of VNEU, -

      The point is not pedaling, but the technological backwardness of the metallurgical, chemical and electronic industries of the Russian Federation.
      1. asp373
        asp373 19 December 2018 15: 15
        +1
        Yes, you, a pan-Ukrainian, would have written my nightingale so that people would not try to answer stupid questions.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 December 2018 18: 07
          -3
          More terrible than the Ukrainian, there is no enemy in the Black Sea.
  11. gunnerminer
    gunnerminer 19 December 2018 08: 11
    -2
    -accumulators in the RDP mode-

    Not at all. The RPD mode is the most undesirable for the AB charge. The submarine crew stalls completely, at all heading angles it loses the ability to control the underwater situation. The crews have to float to the surface because of the obsolete chemical system of atmospheric regeneration in the compartments. This regeneration system does not allow getting rid of carbon monoxide.
  12. 5 – 9
    5 – 9 19 December 2018 08: 16
    +3
    In theory, everything is right, especially if adversary KUGs want to be drowned exclusively by means of pr. 636.3, moreover it is advisable to use torpedoes, and Ktulkhu or Putin from sports antireres will forbid to shoot down R-8s with naval su-30sm - to blaze out how enti 636.3 can handle it alone.
    In real life, all this can be. true eg in relation to the Mediterranean Sea .. central and western parts. And in the puddle of the World Cup, the Bastions shoot right up to the Bosphorus, not to mention the aviation (which, if adversary with AB, so "die all living things, headed by 1144", and if our base is against a dead KUG - so they forgot about it).
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 December 2018 10: 25
      -5
      -And in the pool of the World Cup, the Bastions are shot straight to the Bosphorus, -

      Right up to Cyprus, don’t waste your time! There’s nothing to control the fire of the Bastions.
      1. Grits
        Grits 19 December 2018 13: 47
        +2
        That's just nothing to control the fire of the Bastions.
        Any helicopter with the appropriate equipment over our water area, having risen to the required height, already significantly "broadens the horizon" of Bastion. This is even without taking into account the reconnaissance aviation of at least the Su-24R type.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 December 2018 13: 56
          -2
          -Any helicopter with the appropriate equipment over our water area, having risen to the required height, already significantly "broadens the horizons" of Bastion.

          So there was not a single such helicopter of any kind to ensure the fulfillment of combat exercises.

          -This even without taking into account reconnaissance aviation, at least like the Su-24R-

          Such Su-24R combat ready is not enough even to carry out combat training tasks in peacetime.
  13. 5 – 9
    5 – 9 19 December 2018 08: 19
    +10
    By the way, the entry of the enemy KUG into the World Cup, and the fatter the better, this is the sweetest and most cherished dream of the Soviet and Russian admirals.
    And the call of AUG will cause ecstasy and loss of self-control from happiness and pleasure ...
    1. 75 hammer
      75 hammer 19 December 2018 08: 32
      +1
      In fact, sending a hydrographic scout has three goals in front of it: political, disinformation (getting ready to catch your boats ...), and practical (actual mapping of the bottom surface, especially since changes are constantly taking place). Perhaps something else is being carried in the holds, he left before the "heroic breakthrough". And so the article in terms of increasing the construction of promising submarines is good, but unfortunately the budget, the budget ...
    2. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 December 2018 10: 39
      -3
      -m better, this is the sweetest and most cherished dream of the Soviet and Russian admirals.

      The dream was to prevent the passage of NATO ships and ships to the Black Sea. Therefore, they placed the Sakuyu Tu-22 division on Libyan land, sent PLARK and DPL connections to the Mediterranean Sea. Allow the enemy’s KUG to enter the Black Sea. This would allow them to finish off the remnants of the KChF coastal infrastructure. They could well strike from the northern Aegean., From the Dardanelles.
    3. Grits
      Grits 19 December 2018 13: 50
      +2
      By the way, the entry of the enemy KUG into the World Cup, and the fatter the better, this is the sweetest and most cherished dream of the Soviet and Russian admirals.
      And the call of AUG will cause ecstasy and loss of self-control from happiness and pleasure ...

      It’s approximately as if a herd of boars climbed into the hunter's garden in an open gate. And the hunter, sitting at the window, would set aside a glass of beer, and joyfully pressed the trigger of a hunting grenade launcher.
  14. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 19 December 2018 08: 52
    +2
    It's time to take Erdogan again for tomatoes. Something quickly, he forgot what happens when they get pinched.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 December 2018 08: 56
      -1
      So they didn’t take it then, but quite the opposite. They reported the air defense system on credit terms favorable to Erdogan. He didn’t run away from NATO. Idlib remained occupied.
  15. shinobi
    shinobi 19 December 2018 09: 27
    +2
    Who is the author then? Ah Damantsev, well, you could not read.
    PS: Scouting a ship without significant escort means only one thing, it will look at how our Navy will act in the event of another provocation of kaklov. The fact that NATO does not have a detailed mapping of the bottom of the Black and Azov Seas is extremely doubtful. In case of conflict, no one will anti-submarine It will not let frolic, as well as the usual ones too. It’s enough to recall how in 2014 their formidable destroyer darted off into the neutral tank and just hit our two Bastions.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 December 2018 10: 43
      -3
      - Scouting a ship without significant escort -

      He will fulfill his main task before the threatened period.

      - Scouting a ship without significant escort -

      There is no naval strike aircraft of the KChF. There are several combat-ready fighters, with crews. unable to quickly obtain intelligence, and act against warships. as part of the compound. There are no A-50U complexes on KChF.
      1. shinobi
        shinobi 19 December 2018 11: 58
        +2
        But why didn’t you think about it? This is despite the fact that there is a full-fledged strike force on land on the peninsula with a full range of aviation of all ranks. And coastal complexes shoot RCC all the way down to the Dardanel. Do you generally operate for information for what year?
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 December 2018 12: 13
          -3
          while the peninsula has a full-fledged strike force on land with a full range of aviation of all ranks-

          It takes about 50 years to complete. If the pace of staffing the group does not change. Plus, the shortage of officers and ensigns.

          -A set of aviation of all ranks-

          There are no long-range bombers. And it is not planned.

          - shoot RCC all the way down to the Dardanel

          Only in pictures.

          - Do you generally operate on information for what year? -

          For 2018.
          1. shinobi
            shinobi 19 December 2018 16: 08
            +2
            That is, you want to say that everyone lies and you alone know the truth. That there is nothing in the Crimea, you can take Azov and Black with your bare hands, and it is unclear why the peninsula itself is still ours. And why the Yankees start to shake with anger only from mentioning the Russian Crimea.
            1. Rostovchanin
              Rostovchanin 19 December 2018 16: 59
              +1
              Do not feed the troll! There is a suspicion that this is a group of comrades, you read his statements. All according to the template in each answer ... Collective bot.
              1. shinobi
                shinobi 19 December 2018 17: 22
                +2
                Yes I do, purely fasting hi
            2. gunnerminer
              gunnerminer 19 December 2018 18: 09
              -2
              -And why the Yankees begins to shake from anger only from the mention of the Russian Crimea .-

              They already do not know from anger. what to do with your ships and submarines.

              -Tell that everyone lies and you alone know the truth .-

              These are the arguments of the younger draftees.

              -there is nothing in the Crimea, Azov and Black can be taken with bare hands-

              Stupid crews of boats Gyurza and tugs, you just can not take it.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 19 December 2018 23: 27
      +2
      Quote: shinobi
      Having a reconnaissance ship without substantial escort means only one thing, it will look at how our Navy will act in the event of another provocation.

      Right on point. bully
      I will add: during the upcoming provocation, he will listen to our p / nets and merge info to kaklam. He went to Odessa. Coordinates his actions with the RU APU and will spy on the conflict in the Donbas. yes
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 20 December 2018 10: 50
        -1
        Not only to spy, but also to break the communication of opponents of the APU.
  16. igor36
    igor36 19 December 2018 09: 36
    +4
    These submarines are equipped with standard diesel-electric power plants that require surfacing every 24 hours to recharge lead-acid batteries in the RPD mode.
    Mr. Damantsev where infa? confusing a potential adversary? Three days on a 3-junction move without ascent is not a problem for Varshavyanka.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 December 2018 11: 06
      -3
      -Three days on a 3-knot move without ascent for Varshavyanka is not a problem .-

      At 1.5 nodal. If you do not turn on the stove in the galley, use a couple of transfers to the lighting compartment, feed the crew with tea and canned goods, then you can not surface for four days. But carbon monoxide will accumulate exponentially.
      1. geniy
        geniy 19 December 2018 14: 57
        +1
        And why then it is claimed that Varshavyanka can go under water for up to 20 days - how is it?
        1. Nizhlogger
          Nizhlogger 19 December 2018 16: 47
          +1
          Probably with a snorkel.
        2. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 20 December 2018 12: 27
          0
          In RPD mode. Before the first contact with anti-submarine aircraft or an enemy submarine.
  17. Ros 56
    Ros 56 19 December 2018 10: 08
    +2
    And I have the impression that, in which case, in the Black Sea, besides ours, there will be no one. Either we drown or ourselves go away from sin, this is our (cow) water area, and we protect it (milk).
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 December 2018 10: 27
      -5
      - I have the impression that in which case, in the Black Sea, except ours, there will be no one .-

      They have the ability to maneuver a pair of AUGs in the northern part of the Aegean Sea, operating a pair of winged wings, not counting the massive attacks by cruise missiles from destroyers from the Mediterranean. From those areas where a tiny naval group cannot be reached.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 19 December 2018 10: 31
        +2
        And they don't need to get there, the tiny "Calibers" and "Daggers" will get there. And they will very much surprise a lot of people.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 December 2018 10: 46
          -2
          - Scouting a ship without significant escort -

          There is no way to direct them to specific targets, beyond the horizon. The dagger is in the form of a mock demontrator that is not of combat value. You can use the Caliber complex for maneuvering goals if you can give a bribe to the NATO commander, and if you convince the crew to close the radar’s watch, Huck.
          1. Antares
            Antares 19 December 2018 12: 21
            0
            Quote: gunnerminer
            . You can use the Caliber complex for maneuvering goals effectively if you manage to give a bribe to the NATO commander, and if you persuade the crew to close the watch on the radar and the hack.

            the size of this bribe can shake the imagination .. still need to insure your life, then a bribe + insurance ... in general beauty.
            In general, something unrealistic.
          2. shinobi
            shinobi 19 December 2018 12: 26
            0
            And who then pointed at the notorious destroyer of our old 24th cracker?
            1. gunnerminer
              gunnerminer 19 December 2018 13: 41
              0
              -the destroyer of our old 24th cracker? -

              The manned aircraft is different from a guided projectile. And the only Su-24M approached the ship in peacetime.
          3. Grits
            Grits 19 December 2018 13: 58
            +1
            You can effectively use the Caliber complex for maneuvering goals if you can give a bribe to the NATO unit’s commander
            Here I agree with you
      2. Grits
        Grits 19 December 2018 13: 57
        +1
        Apart from the massive attacks by cruise missiles from destroyers from the Mediterranean.
        Do you think that they will melt all of our Varshavyanki Black Sea Fleet with their Tomogavkas?
        Or did our NKs abruptly lose the ability to shoot down the Tomogawks?
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 December 2018 18: 12
          -1
          -will over all our Varshavyanki Black Sea Fleet? -

          There is no need to drown them all. If the crews lose their combat control. they will not pose a threat to NATO and other types of food, NATO threats.

          -Or have our NKs suddenly lost the ability to shoot down the Tomogawks? -

          Your NK capable of shooting down the Tomahawks can be counted on the fingers of one hand. And in a year, these will not be either. Patrolniks and RTOs for the Tomahawks are not a threat.
      3. Nizhlogger
        Nizhlogger 19 December 2018 16: 49
        +1
        Why do they need AUG in the Aegean? There, like Greece, a member of NATO. From the airfields is it impossible?
        Better yet, from Romania.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 20 December 2018 12: 28
          +1
          -And why do they need the AUG in the Aegean? T-

          To avoid guaranteed guidance of high-precision ammunition, and to avoid attempts to attack a small number of KChF aircraft.
          1. Nizhlogger
            Nizhlogger 21 December 2018 04: 53
            0
            I did not understand why Greece is worse than the AUG in the Aegean Sea.
            1. VSrostagro
              VSrostagro 21 December 2018 11: 39
              +1
              A stationary airfield will not "crawl" by 1000-3000 meters after the launch of our missiles. And AUG can move.
              IS IT CLEAR?
              1. Nizhlogger
                Nizhlogger 21 December 2018 12: 15
                0
                But the airfield is more profitable because it will not drown. IS IT CLEAR NOW?
                1. VSrostagro
                  VSrostagro 21 December 2018 16: 53
                  0
                  yes TARGET will not drown, coordinates will not change
                  Even the Russian Post will not miss, will deliver the parcel to the address
                  1. Nizhlogger
                    Nizhlogger 22 December 2018 06: 00
                    0
                    The moving TARGET missiles also work well. They do not care.
                    1. VSrostagro
                      VSrostagro 22 December 2018 18: 44
                      0
                      "the firing range of the Caliber missiles against sea targets is 375 km, and against ground targets - 2600 km"
                      The difference is huge.
                      1. Nizhlogger
                        Nizhlogger 22 December 2018 19: 57
                        0
                        marine and land calibers are essentially different missiles. Sea fly much faster than sound. Because not far. But they heat the TARGET for two times. And distance is not a problem.
                        True, it doesn't matter now. Here "zirconchik" is on its way. Let them go to the Aegean Sea. There will be something to train on.
                      2. VSrostagro
                        VSrostagro 22 December 2018 23: 43
                        0
                        You are impenetrable, like an aircraft carrier ...
                        I understand the difference, then there is no difference
                        and then ZIRCON ALREADY is, when it will at best appear in 2022.
                      3. Nizhlogger
                        Nizhlogger 23 December 2018 13: 42
                        0
                        Well, the aircraft carrier is just breaking through. I wrote that the Zircons are on the way and not "ALREADY IS".
  18. Igor Evgenievich.
    Igor Evgenievich. 19 December 2018 10: 49
    0
    Erdogan is a sly fox. Both yours and ours.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 December 2018 11: 07
      -2
      Gorbachev's simplicity is bad for preserving independence.
  19. ilik54
    ilik54 19 December 2018 11: 29
    0
    To put under watch nuclear warheads off the coast of England and the United States, and all matters. And let them roam where they want, when their countries are under such a threat. You have to be simpler and lanier.
    1. shinobi
      shinobi 19 December 2018 12: 30
      -1
      The megaton-class Whale torpedo series is handy. They can find the mine, but still need to be able to intercept the torpedo.
      1. Yuriy Malyshko
        Yuriy Malyshko 20 December 2018 08: 38
        0
        Slightly paraphrasing one warrant officer: "Ahnem is obligatory. But then."
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Yuriy Malyshko
      Yuriy Malyshko 20 December 2018 08: 46
      +1
      With such a brilliantly simple idea, all research institutes, design bureaus, the General Staff and personally Shoigu are already waiting for you with open arms!
      1. shinobi
        shinobi 20 December 2018 09: 47
        0
        And this is not my idea, but the official tactics of the preventive strikes of our Navy against the objects of basing the strategic forces of the US Navy. And she is already 50 years old. And at this stage, our strategic nuclear forces together with the Navy are realizing Sakharov’s edited but modern idea. with 100 megaton charges on ultra-long torpedoes. And even the name of the program migrated to the product-Poseidon.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 20 December 2018 12: 55
          -2
          - the official tactics of the preventive attacks of our Navy on the objects of basing strategic forces of the US Navy. And she is already 50 years old

          The outfit of forces for such actions by the Russian Navy was pretty worn out, with no prospects for recovery.

          Sakharov’s day with 100 megaton charges on ultra-long torpedoes. And even the name of the program migrated to the product-Poseidon.

          This is an indicator of the impotence of the USC and shipbuilders who are not able to produce modern surface ships and submarines, as well as high-precision ammunition. in the required quantities.
  20. Е2 - Е4
    Е2 - Е4 19 December 2018 12: 50
    -1
    One Black Hole simply blocks the passage in Basfort and Alya de Comedy. The Black Sea becomes the inland sea of ​​RUSSIA. I think that our "PARTNERS" will play out our patience is not unlimited ...
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 20 December 2018 12: 29
      -1
      -One Black Hole -

      While the battery is fully charged.
  21. bk316
    bk316 19 December 2018 12: 52
    +3
    Gentlemen, what are you talking about? What are the P-8A? Eugene stop trolling. Look at the distance from the already deployed S-400 to the Turkish coast ...
    The Black Sea is a shooting range of the Russian Federation where targets are any enemy ships, and better AUG, and even better all 10 AUG ....
  22. igor36
    igor36 19 December 2018 14: 11
    +3
    What are you talking about? Any conflict between NATO and the Russian Federation only in the first stage can be using conventional weapons. The superiority of NATO forces is such that in any modeling of the conflict, nuclear weapons were inevitably used! And so far only this stops them.
  23. Operator
    Operator 19 December 2018 14: 28
    0
    Why do we need submarines in the Black Sea theater of operations, when we have a cloud of Iskander, Kinzhalov, Su-34, missile boats, etc. there. etc.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 20 December 2018 12: 31
      0
      -Su-34-

      There are only 100 combat ones in four fleets and four military districts. Miser.

      -Daggers "-

      The layout is not scary to the enemy.

      - "Iskander", -

      Just the same.

      - rocket boats -

      RTOs are smaller than AUGs, and missile boats will not be launched into the sea due to technical unavailability. Old.
      1. Operator
        Operator 20 December 2018 13: 11
        +1
        We believe that "Iskanders on a MiG-31 suspension are mock-ups from mockups: Murad himself said, yesaaaaaaaaaa laughing

        Your education is clearly at the level of the Dagestan madrasah - we have MiG-31 and Iskander aircraft by an order of magnitude more than NATO's aircraft carriers.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 20 December 2018 13: 22
          0
          -Can it have been changed for a long time? -

          In the newspaper Red Star, and among military personnel, the information is directly opposite.
          1. Operator
            Operator 20 December 2018 13: 31
            0
            Murad: Believe in reporters and OBS - do not respect yourself.
            1. gunnerminer
              gunnerminer 20 December 2018 13: 35
              0
              Believe in reporters and OBS - do not respect yourself.

              Not all military personnel are journalists. The newspaper Krsanaya Zvezda is the official press organ of the RF Ministry of Defense. It should be read carefully, trying to look beyond the text.

              - Believe in reporters and OBS - do not respect yourself. -

              It is reckless to believe this is the lot of pre-conscripts and prstofil. Especially in hundreds of MiG-31s ​​with Iskanders and Daggers.
              1. Operator
                Operator 20 December 2018 13: 41
                0
                Murad - here we are also not brooms cabbage soup laughing
                1. gunnerminer
                  gunnerminer 20 December 2018 14: 41
                  0
                  -Murad - here we are also not brooms cabbage soup-

                  You are not interested, even superficially, in the life of the Armed Forces of Russia.
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 20 December 2018 14: 49
                    0
                    I am interested in weapons.
  24. smaug78
    smaug78 19 December 2018 15: 23
    +1
    Quote: Operator
    Why do we need submarines in the Black Sea theater of operations, when we have a cloud of Iskander, Kinzhalov, Su-34, missile boats, etc. there. etc.

    Heap is how much?
  25. Sergey Ugrimow
    Sergey Ugrimow 19 December 2018 16: 16
    +1
    It means surfacing should be under the guise of surface citizens and military ships of Russia, overlapping, masking the process of charging batteries by submarines. Plus, the mandatory escort of the Anglo-Saxon acoustic reconnaissance vehicles by Russian noise-producing ships, which impede hearing real targets and reconnaissance.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 20 December 2018 12: 57
      0
      - by covering surface citizens and military courts of Russia, -

      Civilians, these are river-sea barges. With limited seaworthiness, owned by semi-criminal owners and commercial operators. Which ensure the secrecy of Russian crews, like an electric broom jackal.
  26. Nizhlogger
    Nizhlogger 19 December 2018 16: 33
    0
    require surfacing every 24 hours to recharge lead-acid batteries in the RPD mode.


    And why is it suddenly lead-acid? Maybe they have already changed? Maybe a lithium boat goes for 10 days with an economic vehicle?
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 20 December 2018 12: 58
      0
      -Can it have been changed for a long time? -

      Japanese shipbuilders are just about to change them for LIAB. Russian finished developments. at an affordable price do not have.
      1. Nizhlogger
        Nizhlogger 21 December 2018 04: 36
        0
        Just now, there was a message about the launch of a plant for the production of lithium batteries. Well, as usual, "no analogues". But since the plant is there, changing the batteries on the sub should not be a problem.
        1. muradministrator
          muradministrator 21 December 2018 18: 01
          0
          - on the launch of a lithium battery plant;

          The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation does not even plan to conclude a contract with anyone for the supply of lithium batteries, due to the lack of samples ready for serial production.

          -But once the factory is-

          There is no factory.

          - batteries on the submarine should not be a problem .-

          Given the relevant equipment, a new boat project will have to be created. There are no funds for the GWP 2027 program.
          1. Nizhlogger
            Nizhlogger 22 December 2018 05: 51
            0
            They immediately ran away to tell you what they were planning. There is a plant. Infa was.
            Changing one type of battery to another is not a big problem. He pulled out some, thrust others. The type of boat to change because of this is stupid.
  27. whitesnow
    whitesnow 19 December 2018 19: 29
    +1
    People can write. And a lot of words. And the data is correct. And for some reason, the material is complete bullshit. Some ideas are not clear. Insults are unfounded. In general, the same situation when I want to say the words of the great generalissimo Suvorov Count of Italy: you are a friend, if you can not write, then at least do not publish.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 19 December 2018 23: 38
      0
      Quote: Whitesnow
      Generalissimo Suvorov Count of Italica:

      A little inaccurate ...
      So it will be more accurate:
      Alexander V. Suvorov’s full title was: Alexander Vasilyevich Suvorov-Rymniksky, the brightest Prince of Italica, count of the Russian and Roman empires, generalissimo of the Russian land and sea forces, field marshal of the Austrian and Sardinian troops, the Sardinian kingdom grand and prince of the royal blood, holder of orders ...
      http://wap.mnsvu.borda.ru/
      1. whitesnow
        whitesnow 20 December 2018 19: 05
        0
        More precisely, but longer. And I’m a net.
  28. Radikal
    Radikal 19 December 2018 20: 25
    0
    Quote: Uncle Lee
    But I want it like in the old days, a torpedo aboard .... In vain or something, the boats were built!

    Training? wink laughing
  29. Astronaut
    Astronaut 19 December 2018 22: 25
    0
    These submarines are equipped with standard diesel-electric power plants that require surfacing every 24 hours to recharge lead-acid batteries in the RPD mode

    If my memory serves me, Varshavyanka can be under water for up to 3 days
  30. kuz363
    kuz363 19 December 2018 22: 34
    0
    This was to be expected with the Turks. And then dreaming that they would leave NATO and be allies of Russia ...
  31. makeyev
    makeyev 19 December 2018 23: 03
    -1
    But aren't military intelligence satellites helping us? And radars can see enemy troughs quite well and give target designation for Russian calibers and other Russian guards!
  32. Yuriy Malyshko
    Yuriy Malyshko 20 December 2018 08: 31
    0
    Everything is piled up in the article. It seems that the author only wants to show everyone, that's how much I know! His basic idea is simply ridiculous that without super-quiet boats, NATO surface ships in the Black Sea can not cope.
  33. iouris
    iouris 20 December 2018 14: 22
    0
    It is foolish to play "cat and mouse" with cheaters, which gradually take away resources and territories. You have to play your game. If a nuclear strike on the territory of the United States and the EU and Turkey occurs after a clash of ships or aircraft in the Black Sea, well, then so be it.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 20 December 2018 14: 43
      0
      -It is foolish to play "cat and mouse" with cheaters, which gradually take away resources and territories.

      It is hard to disagree, especially after a fresh interview with USC President Mr. Rakhmanov, who received an MBA certificate in the 90s, in Chicago.
  34. Ivan Vasilievich
    Ivan Vasilievich 21 December 2018 15: 21
    0
    There have been 12 Russo-Turkish wars throughout history. Russia virtually destroyed the Ottoman Empire. And previously there was an Alliance with Turkey. But it was temporary and unstable. Hence the factual conclusion: we need the actual destruction of Turkey as a state that poses a potential threat to Russian interests in the Black Sea.
    1. VSrostagro
      VSrostagro 21 December 2018 17: 00
      0
      - Let's face them!
      - And if they are to us?
      “And for what?”
  35. The comment was deleted.