Military Review

Such a strange Russia. Cosmos: the obvious and the incredible

98
Necessary preface.


Here we have frequent complaints from a single category of people that we, the authors, in our materials do not draw conclusions on the topic of "what to do." That is, everyone who writes about the topic of the day simply has to not only point out the problem, but also prepare and write down concrete steps to solve it. But even better - to solve the problem. Immediately so as not to go far.

But within the framework of the minimum program - to chew and put in the reader’s mouth so that the latter could only swallow, bleed air and express either “approve” or the highest “disapprove”. And you live there as you like.

Alas, but no. And as before, we consider it necessary to rely on those readers whose heads are not the place where they eat, but where they think. And who does not ask questions like "no, well, what for the article that the author suggests, I did not understand." No, it is clear that the main thing is to express your “fe” in the comments, this is understandable. But many of us are just getting high when clever people draw another article in the comments.

So now, when we talk (once again) about the space program of Russia, more precisely, about its fragments. Almost without conclusions, because other people must draw conclusions.

So, here recently, we tore the button accordions and pierced the tambourines, happily accompanying the Council’s approval by the RAS Council on Space for the construction of a habitable base on the Moon. Not all, of course, but many media outlets rumbled on this topic.

Program, yes, not a program, but a Program! Two observatories (one for radio astronomy, the second for the study of cosmic radiation) and three automatic data collection stations in the appendage. "Moon" №№25, 26 and 27.

By the spring of next year, the lunar program should be ready in terms of, and as long as the Americans with their lunar orbital platform are poking around there, we will have it all up and running.

Let me discuss something from this program.

The schedule is as follows:

2019 year. The lunar program is issued, it is obtained from the budget and work begins.

2022 year. Three key modules, which are to become the basis of the lunar orbital station, were built, put into orbit and docked with the ISS. And before that, the modules will be something to work out there.

2025 year. Completion of training and education on the ISS. By this time, the base lunar orbital module and the Federation spacecraft should already be ready. On the "Federation" as it were charged with the delivery of crews. By that time, the Federation should already test fly to the moon in automatic mode without a crew.

2032 year. At this point, the manned missions to the moon have been worked out, the modular platform in orbit around the moon has been assembled and ready to receive crews, its orbit, and you can start installing observatories on the satellite surface.

Somewhere in the 2030 area of ​​the year, landing of watches begins, which will assemble and erect all this.

2035 year. The Russian lunar base is moving to a permanent job.

Wow Wow Beautifully drawn. Sorry, not me, really would be proud.



Yes, the picture of our cosmic future looks quite ... fabulous. I would say fantastic. Especially when you consider that according to the previous “big plan” of “Roscosmos”, our permanent base on the moon should be functioning for three years already. Her work, I remind you, is tentatively planned for 2015 year.

We do not have a base on the moon, but we want the type. Okay. Let's start with what we don't have yet, okay? Somewhat boring goes, but you can compare the processes in the time interval.

So, what we do not have a list.

1. Super heavy rocket. Which will have to output first to the ISS, and then to the Moon, all these observatories, modules, and so on.

More precisely, we have a rocket, it is “Energy” with a payload of 100 + tons. But Mr. Rogozin does not notice her point-blank and does not know about her. And because we will develop a rocket again. From scratch.

They say (I do not dare to assert) that the design work on the Phoenix launch vehicle began in the 2018 year, the first launch from the East is scheduled for the 2034 year.

2. Launch pad under the "Phoenix". She, too, yet. Construction is planned to start in 2026 year, and the first launch is scheduled for 2028 year.

3. Manned ship "Federation" either. More precisely, there is something there, the work seems to be going on from 2009, but we were promised the first flight in 2015, then moved to 2019, and then to 2023.

Notice the discrepancy? So I noticed. When there is a series of populist statements, it’s one thing, but when it’s broken up, it’s completely different.

How can one start building such facilities and land astronauts on the Moon and deliver parts of facilities in 2030, if the first launch of the launch vehicle is planned only for 2034 year?

Well, let's say, the Federation will fly. What from that? Well, astronauts will land, jump on the moon, come back. Observatories require a truck of remarkable power. It is a fact.

In general, it is obvious that the plans were written by different people. Meanwhile, the plans are ... right, money. Not even money, here we are talking about amounts.

And what about money? And with the money, in short, as usual - they steal. Kudrin was quoted by many on the subject of the fact that 760 billion rubles were stolen following the results of the checks of the Accounts Chamber in Roskosmos.

Everything is simple: you can believe, you can not believe. Personally, my opinion is that Kudrin is hard to believe. Firstly, we all know perfectly well what this person is, secondly, to realize his dream of universal surrender to the West, Kudrin still doesn’t count, and thirdly (and this is the main thing), Kudrin will never their readings are not responding.

It is clear that they steal from us wherever possible. And "Roskosmos" - has already been proven - no exception at all. The only question is how much in reality.

Here on the "Eastern" cosmodrome there were screams for billions, but they found out that they had stolen "only" 5% of the total cost. Where are they stealing less now? Colleagues have written more than once about the Pentagon’s inflated budget, where 15 (and even 20) percent flies away, dries out and evaporates. So 5% - well, quite in our times.

But money is only half the problem, if not less. Although - the problem is all the same, no matter how twist it.

The NASA budget for 2017 was 19,5 billion dollars. The budget of "Roscosmos" in the same year - 2,6 billion dollars.

Even if they steal four times as many there as we do, it’s still not to be caught up. Even taking into account the fact that we still have a Soviet backlog, do not overtake. Alas.

The main question: why do we need this lunar station?

To wipe the nose of the Americans? So we already wiped out. Everybody. Falling into the ocean and scattered in near-Earth space satellites (including not their own), frequent accidents in which the storekeeper and the locksmith are to blame, and then on the list.

But - we are wringing like frogs in Krylov's fable, declaring that we can do everything. And tomorrow everything will be.

Very similar to the neighbors from Ukraine, one to one straight. There, too, that not a single day is another peremoga. And the next day zrada.

I don't care today whether Americans were on the moon or not. Rogozin is much more important. For him, the meaning of life is right to prove that astronauts did not land on the moon.

What's the difference? Do we have something to change from this?

Will we stop sending ships into space that are the modernized ships of Sergei Korolev on the rockets that Korolev and his associates designed and built?

Doubtful.

The basis for such thoughts and doubts is the 2017 report of the aforementioned Roscosmos for the year, recently declassified and published.

In short - "everything is bad, although it could be worse."

Could it? It is possible, although according to the plan, the share of Russian exports of rocket and space technology should have been 2017% of the world in the 24,5 year, but in fact this figure was 8,5% (2016% in the 8,8 year).

And then immediately on the excuses from the "Roskosmos". It is clear that everything is to blame: the fall of the ruble, the sanctions, the machinations of "Ukraine (more on this below), the machinations of the Martians, dumping by the Americans (primarily SpaceX), and so on.

Sanctions ... Oh, yes. Roscosmos acknowledged that today it is unable to equip the equipment with “high-quality imported equipment.” Tales about import substitution were told to us and even showed, everything is clear here.

With regards to launches. The document states that, according to the plan, Roskosmos should have launched 25 devices, and in fact launched only 17. Here we will not take into account four launches of purely military purpose; they are passing through the Department of the Defense Ministry. And the remaining four - "on the conscience" of Ukraine.

Ukraine, having ceased to supply the products of Yuzhmash and the Kharkov NPO Elektropribor, actually removed the launch vehicles Zenit and Rokot from the launching tables, land and sea. In addition to the PH, there are problems with the Briz-KM accelerating blocks, where, on the one hand, the Ukrainian components seem to be replaced by 100%, and on the other hand, launches through the Briz-KM are occasionally postponed.

That is the question: what do we need space for?

Even if you look twice at the Federal Space Program, it is still not clear. If you listen to Rogozin (it is still a pleasure, of course) - our main task is to wipe the nose of the Americans. Why - is also not clear. It seems that from this scrapping something in our lives will change drastically. Then the question is what?

If we are talking about the "prestige of the country", let's remove this right away. The prestige of the country is made up not only of work in space and with space, not only in “demonstrating the flag” by dragging the ancient trough across the seas, but also of many components. In which, basically, everything is not as good as we would like.

Absolutely it is not necessary to regard all the above as “let's build a better deal”. No, roads should be built on the ground, the road should be paved into space. Especially since we were pioneers there. Position requires, as they say the French.

But just to take it with complete foolishness to be killed about the moon we do not need is nonsense. We do not have a new spacecraft, we do not have automatic interplanetary stations, we do not have much. The main thing - there is no own orbital station, and which could be carried out any tests and experiments, without fear of unnecessary eyes.

And there is no silenok. Accidents and recent falls show that with the implementation we also have problems above the roof.

The current head of Roscosmos, Dmitry Rogozin, apparently realizing this, is today trying to shift the execution of the program from 2022 to 2026-2027 years. Yes, these dates were once approved by the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Government Dmitry Rogozin, but ... Apparently, “this” Dmitry Rogozin has more information than “that”.

Today, they are trying to save the situation in Roscosmos with very ambiguous measures, namely, by merging all types of space production into a single rocket and space holding.

If everything goes according to this plan, then in the same system as Roscosmos there will be:

Concern "Almaz-Antey" (air defense / missile defense systems).

Tactical Missiles Corporation (Zircon, Dagger, Avangard).

Concern "Radio Engineering and Information Systems" (communications, radar and related equipment).

It seems nothing looks that way. All participants are connected if not with space (here!) Then with rocket technology. And, if you look at the reports, they are able to earn money (especially Diamonds, to which the queue stands a year ahead), and scandals are somehow not observed around.

So it is possible - I emphasize - this is the way out.

After all, one can definitely say that despite all the dances with Rogozin's tambourine around Roscosmos, today they simply do not understand why they are needed at all. Where to develop, how, and, most importantly - for what.

Korolev knew the answer to this question. Rogozin is not Korolev, and to the height of the chief designer of our space industry, a populist journalist and a loser politician will not be thrown into a trampoline.

A booster rocket of type "Energy" or "Phoenix" can be tried. But the "Phoenix" is yet to be created.

So "Roskosmos" is still coming shocks and shakes. In the name of what, one wonders?

The prestige of the country or is it money?

You know, you can laugh at Americans as much as you want, but they have the answer. Money. Moreover, space with the right approach is a lot of money.

Why in the United States so calmly throwing huge sums on Russian engines for missiles and billions on all sorts of toys like Hubble and James Webb?

And because it is profitable and profitable.

The statistics is simple, and simple is deadly.

Services of putting cargo into orbit in the total volume of space profits are less than 10%. Pure military troubles - about 11%.

Scientific developments give 3,6%. Moreover, they still need to apply.

Where is the money, Billy?

And here:

Ground service of the orbital grouping - 35%.

But even this is not important. The main thing is the profits from the broadcast of the tele-picture, communication services and space-related services (weather forecasts, global positioning, observation of the earth's surface) - 40,1%.

Actually, that's where money is made in space.

It is clear why Rogozin runs so.

For too long, Russia has been resting on the Soviet laurels, believing that it will remain the cheapest and most reliable cab driver forever. However, the events of the last two years have shown that the world is already able to react to changes, but we are not.

And suddenly it turned out that we have competitors. And quite such rivals are toothy. You can water the Mask for a long time and persistently for everyone, but his rockets start flying more and more successfully. Unlike our advertised "Angara", which so far only flies on paper.

As a person versed in various visits to various enterprises, I will try to predict that the civilian company Roscosmos, which seems to be rather closed today, after merging with the bison of the military industry, will turn into a black box following the model of Soviet super secret structures.

Experienced, and probably profitable. Today, Rogozin’s rant words about increasing the responsibility and self-motivation of employees is pure Potemkin’s village. That is, just a deception of listeners, nothing more. The old Soviet laborers finally retire either in retirement or in their own space. Who is changing is also a problem.

The simple hard workers come to replace them, for whom the work on space is just a job, nervous, hemorrhoid and not very well paid.

So let us forget about this “self-motivation”, it’s simply nowhere to take. And all the cries of Rogozin - just cries of Rogozin, which lead nowhere. If the state does not want to motivate the worker, he will not replace the entire state. And it will be difficult to motivate the employee.

Meanwhile, not far off is a very unpleasant moment. The end of the life of the ISS.

And here you really have to think about what to do next. Either by creating an orbital station, which is also a lot of doubts, or our space will remain purely military, judging by who will work on the programs.

And, as it seems to me, it is necessary to begin precisely with the fact that we should decide what our cosmos is and where.

Gentlemen liberals, of course, will say that we must surrender. While all is not plundered. And in their own way they will be right, since the rejection of our completely incomprehensible Federal space program is the saved 92 billion rubles. In year.

But it is also about 200 enterprises, which employ a quarter of a million people. It is clear, "did not fit into the market." Can be buried along with the space program.

Merge civil "Roskosmos" with three weapons Concerns, of course, will do without such measures. And there is work for people, and specialists will not scatter to competitors.

Another question: why the lunar bases and other science fiction surrendered to military concerns? Answer: no matter what. This is a plus and a minus at the same time.

The space program, enclosed in the military framework, is the degradation of pure water. The world today is such that, perhaps, only China can independently pull the space program in all respects. Close in the "top secret" military developments - to lose all or almost all of the future cooperation.

So I think that Roskosmos should be left civil, but the goals and objectives should be reviewed.

And we need to start not with the implementation of frankly idiotic "lunar" projects that will not give anything but the developed billions.

And we need to develop new, cheap and reliable launch vehicles in two classes: medium and light, well, the same “Angara” brought to mind. With a target to capture the market for commercial launches in each of the segments.

The program is making money. Yes, I'm about GLONASS.

The production of GLONASS-K satellites was stopped, despite the fact that the satellites were good in all respects. But with a share of foreign components under 80%. With the beginning of the sanctions, this satellite model has ended.

Well, they started to launch GLONASS-M again. The previous generation with worse performance, but with a smaller share of imported components. Well, we have what we have, as the Ukrainians would say.

Now GLONASS-K1 satellites are being manufactured “on available components” (I translate into Chinese ones) with the prospect of switching to the K2 version as domestic components are developed. It remains only to do nothing - to build factories, to give birth to equipment and personnel, and the staff also to train.

To date, the “share of imports” (all the same China and smuggling from Europe and the USA) has been reduced to 40%, but only on the most important projects, such as the global positioning system. In civil satellites, it is still 70%.

And this is under the loud reports that "we have import substitution in everything." Yeah, absolutely like that! All have already been replaced. But it does not want to fly into space, it is substituted.

Here are the priorities in the development of Roscosmos. These, not fairy tales about the "moon tractor on the lunar base" performed by Rogozin.

By the way, I’ll add one more. As for motivation, popularization and other things in terms of space. It would be nice to take a couple of workshops from Shoigu. After the general manager turned tank shooting at world-class shows, only a little inferior to the Olympic under-games, one could learn. Advertising, motivation and other components.

Saving Roscosmos, of course, is necessary. Moreover, there is still something to save. But to save by real actions, and not science fiction projects for the development of the budget ... the lunar surface.

Based on:
https://www.roscosmos.ru/24523/
https://www.rbc.ru/society/30/11/2018/5c010dc49a794779e1eaf09c
https://alex-leshy.livejournal.com/1297949.html
https://ria.ru/economy/20181126/1533483071.html
Author:
Photos used:
Jonny lindner
98 comments
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  1. Conductor
    Conductor 4 December 2018 06: 25
    +3
    There is such a question, but are these programs feasible for the budget? And are they needed? At one time, Lozino-Lozinsky about the Buran program, like he said so, can be launched and developed, but if only a loaf of bread becomes more expensive by a ruble.
    1. vadson
      vadson 4 December 2018 06: 54
      +11
      Well, a loaf of bread without Roskosmos will become more expensive by a ruble. if the memory does not change, then the budget unused money on the accounts in the state at the end of the year remains toli one trillion toli two. I won’t say for sure, I just heard from the corner of my ear. - this is what they did not manage to steal)))) 100 billion rubles against this background is not such a big amount. In my opinion, a snowstorm would be revived at a modern base. and yes, Roman is right that you need to learn to earn money in space. space tourism is also not a developed niche.
      1. Conductor
        Conductor 4 December 2018 07: 37
        -2
        Offer to tighten your belts, but our space will be?
        1. vadson
          vadson 4 December 2018 07: 43
          +7
          No, you can cut hospitality expenses at bureaucrats. enough money
        2. Svarog
          Svarog 4 December 2018 07: 52
          +8
          Quote: Conductor
          Offer to tighten your belts, but our space will be?

          Where else to tighten ..
          1. Conductor
            Conductor 4 December 2018 08: 23
            +3
            Tax on internet and mobile phones. Have a mobile phone, give 100 rubles to the treasury per year.
            1. vadson
              vadson 4 December 2018 08: 29
              +13
              better keep quiet and they will hear (((
            2. Harry.km
              Harry.km 4 December 2018 10: 30
              +11
              Quote: Conductor
              Tax on internet and mobile phones. Have a mobile phone, give 100 rubles to the treasury per year.

              Tax on the second and next monitors.
              Large monitors tax.
              The tax on high-volume refrigerators.
              Pet tax.
              Tax on residents of the south of Russia, on the construction of tanning beds for residents of the north.
              Aurora tax on residents of the far north.
              Tax on shoes with metal heels (mandatory wear on the back of the mark).
              Tax on tax paid and tax on interest on unpaid taxes.
              Our servants do not finish ... oh they do not finish ...
          2. Decimam
            Decimam 4 December 2018 14: 20
            +3
            "Where else to tighten .."

            On the neck!!!
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 4 December 2018 07: 12
    +12
    Interestingly, this program implies that it is necessary to train specialists, build factories producing components, money for the development of equipment for these plants, etc. ... As they said, at the dawn of democracy, the market will put everything in its place ... that's it arranged ... I remember who said that it’s not a fix to build your planes, it’s better to buy Boeings .. And now, we also buy Chinese spare parts for aviation, space, and the fleet .. It seems that we don’t drop on the bandwagon of the last car of the outgoing train, but what run along the wagons, to the driver’s cab and there can be no talk ...
    1. Hole puncher
      Hole puncher 4 December 2018 07: 35
      +9
      Quote: parusnik
      I remember who said that it’s not a fic to build their planes, it’s better to buy Boeing ..

      Vladimir Putin in an interview in the early 2000s.
      The country must remember the heroes.
    2. Svarog
      Svarog 4 December 2018 07: 54
      +13
      Quote: parusnik

      It is interesting, but this program implies that it is necessary to train specialists, build factories producing components, money for the development of equipment for these plants, etc. ...

      Yes, there isn’t any program, and Roman in the article gave evidence of that .. This is more likely a slogan for the people, but really there is nothing but wet fantasies ..
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 4 December 2018 11: 41
        +5
        There are programs, but these are budget cut programs.
    3. goose
      goose 10 December 2018 15: 08
      0
      Quote: parusnik
      It is interesting, but this program implies that it is necessary to train specialists, build factories producing components, money for the development of equipment for these plants, etc. ...

      And how to put it into Government programs lasting 1 year? Our course is not about development, because Sustainable development requires a systematic approach, a stable political system, stable financing and ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS. Do we have at least one of the above? And we need one and all, otherwise it does not work.
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 4 December 2018 07: 17
    +6
    development of domestic production of components. All that remains is to build factories, give birth to equipment and personnel, and train the staff.

    Here is the main one. The most important GOAL, CHALLENGE for the country! We can’t do it, you can’t even dream of the rest!
    The USSR was strong, because it was united in society, in goals and objectives !!! Now is THAT ???
  4. The comment was deleted.
    1. Berber
      Berber 4 December 2018 09: 14
      -1
      All these movements under the "Lunar Programs" are an attempt by the Americans to spin us into an analogue of the arms race. No need to fuss, we have something to do on earth. So all these discussions and different plans are "circles on the water".
      1. Igor Polovodov
        Igor Polovodov 6 December 2018 15: 59
        +2
        + 100 to the point
  5. Hole puncher
    Hole puncher 4 December 2018 07: 42
    -1
    Of course, it is necessary to save Roscosmos.

    Unfortunately it’s too late. Even if a miracle happens and Roscosmos is successfully reformed, it’s still impossible to keep up with the Mask; he and Bezos and the guys from the Rocketlab will share the market for commercial launches and Roscosmos will only have launches under state programs and military orders. And this is only rubles and very little.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 4 December 2018 11: 39
      +6
      It is necessary to save not ROSKOSMOS, but the very country of RUSSIA! From the gang that seized power in 1991.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 9 December 2018 12: 00
        -1
        Quote: NordUral
        It is necessary to save not ROSKOSMOS, but the very country of RUSSIA! From the gang that seized power in 1991.

        How does this gang differ from the gang that seized power in 1917 or in 1613?
  6. Aleks2048
    Aleks2048 4 December 2018 07: 57
    +9
    Let's be honest ... For the coming years, our super-moon program is really just fantastic ... But as the practice of this site shows, urapatriots like this ... So Rogozinsky plans will approve and allocate money. The question is different, but what will we do after 2030-2035, when even the most stubborn will become obvious that the plans are not destined to translate into metal. By that time, we will have an even greater lag in technology, an even smaller segment of the market will be with us and an even larger competitor, even greater wear and tear on our equipment and an even smaller number of trained specialists. We must now look sensibly at things and measures must be taken now, and not later! am
  7. Dimy4
    Dimy4 4 December 2018 08: 02
    +2
    Space program, science fiction writers have a rest!
  8. lopuhan2006
    lopuhan2006 4 December 2018 08: 04
    +3
    The author is rather weak !!!! The situation is even worse !!!! Rogozin’s appointment to his current position is not just a mistake, but direct sabotage!
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 10 December 2018 14: 40
      0
      Quote: lopuhan2006
      Rogozin’s appointment to his current position is not just a mistake, but direct sabotage!
      Sabotage is generally all that has been going on in the highest echelons of Russian power since about 1990.
  9. Free wind
    Free wind 4 December 2018 08: 06
    0
    And why is this lunar program needed? Well, for Rogozin, for this viper, what else?
  10. Wened
    Wened 4 December 2018 08: 08
    +7
    The article is good, which is called the grudge of the day.

    1. The author asks.
    So "Roskosmos" is still coming shocks and shakes. In the name of what, one wonders? 


    And he answers this question.
    And here you really have to think about what to do next. Either by creating an orbital station, which is also a lot of doubts, or our space will remain purely military, judging by who will work on the programs.


    In the USSR, space was exclusively military, forged the country's nuclear missile shield, all stations of the Salute series were military.

    2. The next question.
    And, as it seems to me, it is necessary to begin precisely with the fact that we should decide what our cosmos is and where. 


    And answers it.
    The space program included in the military framework is the degradation of clean water. The world today is such that, perhaps, only China will be able to independently pull the space program in all respects. Closing ourselves in “top secret” military developments - losing all or almost everything in the future prospect of cooperation


    I dare to object, thanks to the military, we have the world's first satellite in space of the USSR, Gagarin, Tereshkova, Leonov, the world's first station in the USSR.
    Civilians in space have nothing to do, from the word at all, space is the path of the military and scientists of the Russian Academy of Sciences. These mattresses are trying to pave the way for civilians into space and therefore create a private space sector, and earlier, like in the USSR, NASA also had a military leader in the first place.

    3.
    The NASA budget for 2017 was 19,5 billion dollars. The budget of "Roscosmos" in the same year - 2,6 billion dollars. 


    The joint budget of Russia and China for space is comparable, so that everything is fine.

    For reference, there are old shootings of the interview, I don’t remember exactly, but according to Glushko, the father of our lunar program in the 60s, I quote verbatim, they ask you everything was ready, to launch our ship to the moon, to which Glushko answers, you you know, they would have made me incapable.

    That is, there was an agreement between the USSR and the USA, not to have military bases on the moon, apparently at the level of the Central Committee, then it was cooler than all that is now, absolute power.

    Now there is no problem with this, therefore any statements on the Moon are most likely just a way to try the ground, that is, look at the reaction of everyone and draw conclusions.



    Imagine what psychological selection of people in the USA is today?
    Civil, private space, even worse, how is it possible to fly somewhere with such people? AND ?
    1. Harry.km
      Harry.km 4 December 2018 11: 00
      +2
      Quote: Wened
      In the USSR, space was exclusively military, forged the country's nuclear missile shield, all the stations of the Salute series were military .... Civilians have nothing to do in space, from the word at all, space is the path of the military and scientists of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

      Let me disagree with you. In the USSR, when they made their way into space, there were really purely military targets. Just like the US, by the way ... But times are changing. And now in space there is already enough equipment for applied domestic purposes. And this is not a budget expense, but money from users of these services. The author of this article speaks very correctly about this. While the goals were only military, the state was engaged in this, as soon as technology stepped forward and society became ready to pay money for the cosmic domestic benefits of civilization, private traders went there for money. Space has become closer. Progress cannot be stopped. It may be possible to live to see the time when children in schools in astronomy classes attend planetariums in orbit of the earth. It remains to begin to revive astronomy in schools ....
      1. Wened
        Wened 4 December 2018 13: 07
        +1
        Everyone has their own opinion, as they say in the dispute, truth is born.

        Private traders in Russia can only be attracted as sub_contractors and all, I will explain why.
        Only the state has the opportunity to synergy, that is, to connect any team of scientists, any institution, that is, those who are needed to solve problems.
        As an example, space can only develop as a theoretical physics, which today or tomorrow will not pay back the invested funds, if by a simple investment it made money in 2018, it made a profit in 2068, that is, after 50 years. Is private business going for it? Alas no when.

        Russian business is capable of performing only short-term subcontracting work whose purpose is to make a quick profit, but they will do it, but no more.

        Russia is not the United States, it is in the states that business can be by contractors going to long-term projects designed for 10-15 years, business in Russia will never do it, and if it does, it will lose all the money in Western banks, they will simply take it away by freezing, come up with sanctions, and if there are no sanctions, they will kill someone and blame the businessman. That’s why this happened with a circus with an interpol where they close everything that they can for Russia. What for? The West at the highest level is completely 100% corrupt, at the grassroots level for the elections there, yes, the little thing is harshly imprisoned so that the average person correctly votes in the elections. This is our top officials 50 to 50 thieves, in the West all 100%.

        Except if they plan to crush the entire state-owned enterprise in the future, that is, privatize it entirely.

        Fear Danians bringing gifts.
        1. Wened
          Wened 4 December 2018 13: 21
          0
          Did not have time to fix, the machine closed editing.

          This is more correct.

          Russian business is capable of performing only short-term subcontracting works whose purpose is to make quick profit, and they will do it, but no more.
          Except if they plan to crush the entire state-owned enterprise in the future, that is, privatize it entirely.
        2. Harry.km
          Harry.km 4 December 2018 13: 23
          0
          Quote: Wened
          Russia is not the United States, it is in the states that business is able to be contractors going for long-term projects designed for 10-15 years, in Russia, business will never do it,

          I think the point is not what kind of business is in Russia, but what business conditions are. And the same Roskosmos is OBLIGED to make it so that in this respect it will become like in the USA.
          1. Wened
            Wened 4 December 2018 13: 27
            +1
            I think the point is not what kind of business is in Russia, but what business conditions are. And the same Roskosmos is OBLIGED to make it so that in this respect it will become like in the USA.


            I just wrote about it.

            in Russia, business will never do this, and if it does, it will lose all the money in Western banks, they will simply take it by freezing it, come up with sanctions, and if there are no sanctions, they will kill someone and blame the businessman for it. That’s why this happened with a circus with an interpol where they close everything that they can for Russia. What for? The West at the highest level is completely 100% corrupt, at the grassroots level for the elections there, yes, the little thing is harshly imprisoned so that the average person correctly votes in the elections. This is our top officials 50 to 50 thieves, in the West all 100%.


            Roscosmos does not have such authority, and will never have it.
            And the same Roskosmos is OBLIGED to make it so that in this respect it will become like in the USA.

            The Central Bank of Russia and the cabinet of ministers headed by Medvedev are obliged to do this.
    2. Cannonball
      Cannonball 8 December 2018 17: 58
      0
      Salyut stations were civilian, not to be confused with Almazi.
  11. EvilLion
    EvilLion 4 December 2018 08: 32
    -2
    And what do you want from space? The person there is doing less and less. Satellites? Well, replace the chips on the family, but this is not a problem of space.
    1. Harry.km
      Harry.km 4 December 2018 11: 07
      +1
      Quote: EvilLion
      And what do you want from space? The person there is doing less and less. Satellites? Well, replace the chips on the family, but this is not a problem of space.

      Comrade Katz offers to give up?))
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 4 December 2018 12: 54
        +1
        I repeat the question, what exactly do you want to achieve in space?
        1. Harry.km
          Harry.km 4 December 2018 13: 19
          +1
          Quote: EvilLion
          I repeat the question, what exactly do you want to achieve in space

          This seems to be some form of particularly sophisticated rhetorical issues. Well then, the answer will be the same. I want to achieve in space or to receive from space that which is not possible to receive on earth. If you do not see prospects, well, then this is your vision of the world. But I believe that we (earthlings) need space. And we will not conquer it, not immediately, not by one state and not only militarily. And for Russia it is important to prioritize. We want to be there as hosts or as poor beggars ...
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 4 December 2018 15: 41
            +1
            I ask specifically, the companions for the positioning, as it were. A lot of things there and dozens a year. But maybe you want a base on the moon, or a manned flight to Pluto, but this is beyond the limits of modern technical capabilities and the task is not so much space that we will be with man in months in space, we already know how much is physical.
            1. Harry.km
              Harry.km 4 December 2018 16: 10
              -1
              Quote: EvilLion
              I ask specifically

              I want development. The fact that satellites are launched, and not by dozens, but by hundreds per year, is already an objectivity given to us in sensations.) Therefore, yes, we (this is me about human civilization) need a base on the moon or a station on about lunar orbit. First we need machines on Mars and Venus, and then inhabited bases. Unfortunately, the space and reserves of planet Earth are finite. And when we have to fly for coal to Saturn ... You look at the problem in the short term. Once people didn’t go out into the ocean. But if they hadn’t tried, they would have sat in the old world.
              1. bubelik
                bubelik 5 December 2018 10: 16
                0
                You know that Saturn is a gas planet, especially since the remnants of ancient plants there is nowhere to come from?
                This is so, from tediousness.
                But in general, I agree with you, we, earthlings, need space in any case. Whoever does not understand this is doomed to remain outside evolutionary development.
                1. Harry.km
                  Harry.km 5 December 2018 13: 15
                  +1
                  Quote: bubelik
                  Whoever does not understand this is doomed to remain outside evolutionary development.

                  It is this, the context of all my writings, on this issue) We (people) will still be there. But there is little difference what names the bases and stations will bear ... Russian, English, Chinese, or something else. And as for Saturn, that is, now the technology for producing diamond films from natural gas ... who knows what we will find in space, this is one of the reasons that we need to fly there to search. Fight and seek, find and not give up (c)
                  1. bubelik
                    bubelik 12 December 2018 15: 42
                    0
                    I agree with you, absolutely
                    1. Harry.km
                      Harry.km 12 December 2018 15: 48
                      0
                      ATP, glad to see like-minded people. Only then, apparently, you will have to be prepared to invest the very trillions without which the respected Cannonball does not see prospects)) Is there 1-1.5 trillion available?)))
                      1. bubelik
                        bubelik 13 December 2018 13: 18
                        0
                        In general, I am in favor of the opportunity for everyone to "throw off" on such projects. So to say, co-financing at the expense of those who wish. There was such an opportunity earlier: "Tank T-34 to the front from the collective farm Znamya"
                        I wouldn’t feel sorry for a thousand or two to the lunar station. The main thing is to have control over this money.
                      2. bubelik
                        bubelik 13 December 2018 13: 19
                        0
                        And so, of course, I personally have "extra" (if such a word is appropriate) 1-1,5 trillion-sixtilion I do not have
                      3. Harry.km
                        Harry.km 13 December 2018 13: 26
                        0
                        And here I agree with you. I would do this: in the tax rate I would highlight a fad, say, 1%, which citizens distribute themselves. And a list of programs where you can allocate money. Moreover, this list could be replenished with their proposals submitted for some kind of vote, like how the airports were called names ... And then it would become clear what the electorate is ready to vote for with a ruble) 1.5 trillion is 10 rubles from each inhabitant ... then it is quite possible to eat in a year, especially if you strain any Sechins and Chubais not for 000, but at least 10 "lemons". In 000 years we are on the moon)))) But, unfortunately, in 10 years, we will have another election, self-aware ...
                      4. bubelik
                        bubelik 13 December 2018 17: 35
                        0
                        An interesting idea with the choice of the distribution of money.
                        And with regards to what will happen - we'll see in 5 years;)
              2. Cannonball
                Cannonball 8 December 2018 18: 00
                -1
                Are you ready to finance deep space exploration programs? Can you contribute a couple of trillions to these projects?
                1. Harry.km
                  Harry.km 9 December 2018 00: 41
                  0
                  Quote: Cannonball
                  Are you ready to finance deep space exploration programs?

                  Ready! I want my taxes to go to these programs, and not to the Russian Guard. I want taxes to go to finance these programs, and not to the salaries of deputies. I want Russia to have its own lunar station, and not just another mundial. I want the money to go to real deep space, and not to offshore. And this is not only my desire, if you add up the taxes of everyone who thinks so, not a couple or ten, but tens of trillions there.
                  1. Cannonball
                    Cannonball 9 December 2018 13: 05
                    -2
                    I repeat once again: "Are you ready to invest a couple of" trillions from your own pocket? "
                    Your taxes, even for writing paper for the printer, are not enough.
                    As Chertok wrote, the cost of only one N-1 rocket was comparable to the cost of building a city for 100 people. Do you have that kind of money?
    2. victor50
      victor50 4 December 2018 12: 43
      0
      Quote: EvilLion
      Well, replace the chips with your own, but this is not a space problem.

      Including him! And they can possibly be replaced as part of the development of the space program. As rich as it was when they just started to master it. Everything was built from scratch. The same thing must be done now, taking today's state as zero (zero will be of a slightly different level, order)
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 4 December 2018 12: 53
        -1
        Then there was a lot of unknown, now it is known, and many manned missions are performed by robots. I repeat the question, what exactly do you want to achieve in space?
        1. bubelik
          bubelik 5 December 2018 10: 18
          0
          You can ask a question, but what do you want to achieve with evolution?
  12. Loess
    Loess 4 December 2018 08: 42
    +3
    Here we have become more frequent complaints from a single category of people that we, the authors, in our materials do not draw conclusions on the topic of "what to do."
    Somehow too often, the administration of the resource began to complain about its audience ... The people are not the same ...
    But just to take it and with complete foolishness to kill ourselves on the Moon that we do not need is stupid.
    Unnecessary to whom exactly? So you can agree that SPACE is not needed at all and there is nothing to spend money on it. In the USSR, too, "they were killed about the unnecessary Moon." They invested a lot, and by no means superfluous, money into the lunar program, and then they simply covered it up. Also kickbacks - cuts?
    The program is making money. Yes, I'm about GLONASS.
    And this is the eternal problem of our country. We do not know how to turn our achievements into money. That under the kings, that under the general secretaries, that under the presidents. This must be learned.
    1. Ryzhik
      Ryzhik 4 December 2018 11: 36
      +4
      In the USSR, too, "they were killed about the unnecessary Moon." They invested a lot, and by no means superfluous, money into the lunar program, and then they simply covered it up. Also kickbacks - cuts?

      But no. In parallel with the lunar program, the military has adapted the launch vehicles to their targets (ballistic missiles). Vivid examples are the "Proton" and "Energia" launch vehicles. This was the introduction of dual-use technologies. But at the present time the lunar program is really nothing. Launch vehicles have long been developed. But their production base, unfortunately, is being successfully eaten by effective managers. This is not a specific problem of Roscosmos, but of the entire domestic policy in general.
      1. Loess
        Loess 4 December 2018 12: 22
        0
        Quote: Ginger
        But no. In parallel with the lunar program, the military adapted launch vehicles to their goals (ballistic missiles).

        If they don't tell you about something, it doesn't mean that they don't. How many years passed before the country learned about the "lunar program" of the USSR and that the military used it for their own purposes?
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 4 December 2018 12: 40
          +2
          The USSR did everything in silence, and these people yell, doing nothing, but they only saw the budget, under high-profile programs (more precisely, slogans).
          1. Loess
            Loess 4 December 2018 12: 52
            +2
            Quote: NordUral
            The USSR did everything in silence, and these yell, doing nothing

            Is it really nothing at all? Neither a new spaceport, nor the Olympics, nor the Crimea, nor the Bridge? And the Union - yes ... He did everything in silence and so in silence he died ... Silently ... Without a fight ...
            Well, there were enough slogans in Soviet times: "catch up and overtake", "the current generation of Soviet people will live under communism" ...
            Just slogans have become different.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 5 December 2018 05: 03
      0
      Quote: Less
      And this is the eternal problem of our country. We do not know how to turn our achievements into money. That under the kings, that under the general secretaries, that under the presidents. This must be learned.

      Why so doomed. You are welcome! Any of our whims for your money (including pension, and grave) money! Already learned, so much so that the whole world was surprised at the growth in profits of Russian oligarchs in 2017.
  13. akunin
    akunin 4 December 2018 09: 16
    +1
    Saving Roscosmos, of course, is necessary. Moreover, there is still something to save. But to save by real actions, and not science fiction projects for the development of the budget ... the lunar surface.
    as ?
    And if each of the fellow citizens
    He gave me a ruble - just
    He gave me a ruble - just
    He gave me a ruble
    Music by I. Schwartz, lyrics by B. Okudzhava
    it is necessary to conduct a fierce audit + landings with confiscation, to appoint another person (as honest as possible) to replace Rogozin, and invest money in the development of his microelectronics.
    one trifle - no one will do it (not profitable).
    1. Harry.km
      Harry.km 4 December 2018 11: 14
      +3
      Quote: akunin
      , appoint Rogozin in place

      It seems to me that it is not necessary to start with the appointment of Rogozin ... But with the appointment of the appointee ...
      1. akunin
        akunin 4 December 2018 12: 37
        0
        Quote: Harry.km
        And from the appointment of the appointee ...

        so it’s not far from a religious war (God doesn’t choose to be born with him) laughing
        1. Harry.km
          Harry.km 4 December 2018 13: 12
          0
          Quote: akunin
          so before the religious war is not far

          Religion is opium for the people! (from)
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 5 December 2018 05: 21
        +2
        It seems to me that it is not necessary to start with the appointment of Rogozin ... But with the appointment of the appointee ... [/ quote]
        I do not deny a radical solution to the question, because ... What can I say about space when:

        He had neither VDNKh nor Soviet documentary. So, he wiped his pants in the chair of the head. DOSA. I got the impression that we lived in different countries and trained and educated us for different purposes. Straight from the school desk, straight from the youngest nails ...
        PS Now a workmate called and announced the death of another comrade, born November 19, 1956. And, if you listen to the appointee, then he still has to live and live ... And most importantly, to work .. Work for the Olympics, on the mundial, on the Rogozin with the Sechins, on the Roskosmos with cuts ...
        All this is disgusting. We sit up to our ears in shit, as the author correctly noted, and talk about high things. Have seen enough "Secrets of the Third Planets", dreamed about the Moon.
        In order for space to become close, people close to it, business professionals, and not the hanyags from the St. Petersburg gateway should be engaged in it ...
        1. akunin
          akunin 5 December 2018 07: 53
          0
          Quote: ROSS 42
          So, wiped his pants in the chair of the head. DOSA

          and the Rodina party, and the presidential candidate? I am a sinner, because then I voted for him (I was waiting for a patriot - a statesman, but waited for an eccentric with the letter "m").
        2. Harry.km
          Harry.km 5 December 2018 13: 05
          -1
          Quote: ROSS 42
          He had no ENEA

          You know, no matter how I was critical of the decisions and speeches of the authorities, but here the president is right! I know the livestock industry very well for a number of reasons. And indeed, for beef. then they led to the slaughter that already could not go. With pork, of course, things were much better and then the president would have to separate beef from meatballs. In every collective farm where I have visited, in each unit (team, department) there were MTF, STF and OTF and PTF on the collective farm. So as for the MTF (dairy farms), so knowledgeable people said that there are dairy cows, there is meat, and we have a bicycle-rib. And milk yield of 3000 liters was considered a record))) Such milkmaids were given prizes. And in the Netherlands at that time 7000-10000 liters were inflated. So one thing is the exhibition (VDNH) and another thing is real livestock breeding.
  14. Carib
    Carib 4 December 2018 09: 19
    +1
    More precisely, we have a rocket, it is “Energy” with a payload of 100 + tons. But Mr. Rogozin does not notice her point-blank and does not know about her. And because we will develop a rocket again. From scratch.

    You can't steal from her. His team promotes those projects where there are the fattest uncontrollable spending. And to change electronics to modern, spending is not so much "beautiful". the fact that it is possible to build new enterprises for modern electronics for the difference, but it is others who can privatize, not his team.
  15. Ryzhik
    Ryzhik 4 December 2018 09: 25
    +7
    Of course, it is necessary to save Roscosmos.

    Yes, this is all a struggle with symptoms that will not bring any tangible result. It is necessary to save the family, education. For a new generation of adequate people to appear. Then everything else will stretch: industry, and missiles, and the fleet ...
    And to save the Roskosmos is like starting to build a house from the roof. With tile laying. And yes, the lunar program is a clean cut. This suggests that positive trends in the country are not yet expected. People make money. The spirit of entrepreneurship. Profit. Here are the current trends.
  16. Unemployed
    Unemployed 4 December 2018 09: 34
    +5
    Do not send the pension stolen from me to the moon! It's not fair.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 4 December 2018 11: 11
      +2
      They will not, these pockets are closer on Earth. Only here not on our land, but on overseas.
  17. Snail N9
    Snail N9 4 December 2018 10: 31
    +1
    It seems to me that, contrary to the author of the article, Russia has a future only in military astronautics.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 4 December 2018 11: 10
      +2
      And we have nowhere to go from this, everything is slowly but steadily moving there. Not yet with us.
    2. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 4 December 2018 12: 29
      0
      And I got the opinion that the author sees the development of astronautics only in "cutting the dough".
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 4 December 2018 12: 42
        +1
        And he is absolutely right! These are the only way.
  18. NordUral
    NordUral 4 December 2018 11: 08
    +3
    Read from cover to cover. One Rogozin flashes, but is it the matter?
    I think that he is only a cog of that incompetent huge system, the criminal system that replaced the state in Russia, and aimed only at digging out what was left of the Union into his pocket.
    And while this organized crime group is in power, we will not have to dream about space, nor about the development of the country, nor about its future.
    Not the main technical problems now, but social ones.
  19. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 4 December 2018 11: 25
    +2
    Excellent article. At least someone understands the situation with astronautics, and this, characteristically, is not from Roskosmos). Yes, near-Earth space exploration is an extremely profitable thing if it is skillfully approached. And all the other floodlights are dumb. And they are launched in order for Roskosmos to deal with them instead of really useful things. But is he still capable of this?
    Old shots squeezed out of the rockets everything that was possible with their tools. What did Musk do? Well, to be exact, where did NASA find the reserves? They took more, albeit not the best, but decently regulated engines and adjusted their management using a modern computer system. That is, they did the only thing that Soviet specialists could not do, who did not have good help with computers.
    Now, Soviet specialists are practically everything. Just by age. They did not pass on their unique insights to anyone. It was not up to them. Everyone stole, killed for money, and again stole. All these dozens of years when it was necessary to carefully give back the old achievements to new trained people who should now reform the industry, transferring it to large-scale work with processing complexes and deep computer control of the flight process, were simply thrown away.
    What do we have now? Money went into the industry. Who is left in it? Only thieves neatly revealing huge Soviet stocks. Thieves received money and enthusiastically steal it, they do not know anything else. There are no more frames. The staffing units are full, but at best they are people with a modern education, nifiga not versed in astronautics. And a few old people (who, according to tradition, as in the 90x were abandoned and still do not pay), who are still pulling something.
    The goals identified by the author, real and achievable, extremely useful for retaining experience and techniques, will not be achieved. There is no one to reach them. Not to mention the fact that the Soviet system had a unique technique for managing high-tech industries, which is completely incompatible with the modern Russian school of management.
    In general, we don't need to go to the moon, but satellites ... It will be worse. Much, much worse. And now the fun, the universal magic wand of the modern world "loot conquers evil" will not work here. It won't work at all. Absolutely. It is not for you to pay off from prison and not to wet your competitors ...
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 4 December 2018 12: 03
      +6
      In 2014, I was in China, doing one joint project with the Chinese. So: after five or six o'clock in the evening, when work ends, masses of Chinese dump out onto previously completely empty streets and instantly fill all the nearest cafes and other eateries. After having a snack, the older generation disperses to the shops and then goes home, and the young and the middle generation rush to libraries (which are used not just for reading, but also as Internet cafes and places to prepare for something in silence), to different courses-like advanced training, study, training in new specialties, etc. Everyone learns something, prepares for something, in any way they try to replenish their knowledge, learn something new. And they themselves, without any podgonyalov. And we have? I can even judge by my children, even while studying at institutes, they constantly skip, study with laziness, they don't strive for anything special, there is no general interest in new things in the country, there is no atmosphere of demand for knowledge and skills, some have one "shopping" - in their heads, others - how to make ends meet and not bend over from poverty, the third ... just don't care about everything ...
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 4 December 2018 12: 22
        +6
        To strive for something, you need to have motivation for this. What is the motivation of our youth? Become smart? What for? The mind is not encouraged by our reality. In order to flourish in the current format of the "Russian world" the mind only harms. The maximum that can be achieved with our mind is to become a high-ranking technician with the owner. A tempting prospect, isn't it? Nothing will depend on you, but you will have to burn your brain all your life to satisfy the wishes of your semi-literate master. It is worth it to study hard and sacrifice all your youth for the sake of accumulating knowledge and skills.
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 4 December 2018 12: 32
          +4
          Soglesen-with the clan-family economy, which is dominant in our country, with the complete absence of social lifts for the people "from the street", this people has absolutely no motivation, not only in terms of serving the "motherland" and patriotism, but also in terms of of their comprehensive education for it is not in demand. In the best case, they learn and learn something in terms of professions and skills only in order to dump "abroad".
      2. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 4 December 2018 12: 22
        +4
        In China, a cult of knowledge (the terrible Communist Party is in power there), and we have democracy and propaganda for easy money through doing nothing (once stole, killed, deceived (underline as necessary)). In the 30s and 40s, and this began in our country, in the 70s, this movement was killed (again by propaganda). So the children do not study, and believe that they all owe them.
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 4 December 2018 12: 51
          +1
          Yes, Alexander, it was 70 that, so touching, with a tear, remembered by the majority of the people, killed the country's impulse into the future. It began Nikita, continued, with apparent prosperity, but in fact the decomposition of even not yet killed socialism, Brezhnev. And together with the tops, we also degraded.
          And so the renegades so easily seized power in 91 and held in 93.
          It is not too late to fix this terrible mistake, but time is rapidly melting. The generation of the USSR is dying, and the new generation of the Russian Federation is stupefied, with few exceptions. And the country is ruled by a gang of criminals. We need to come to our senses, while there is still little time left. Then it will be too late.
    2. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 4 December 2018 12: 27
      +2
      But nothing that developing space (including) we get new knowledge, technology, materials? Nothing? So use a potbelly stove and a cast-iron skillet. And even cook at the stake. All modern electric stoves, heaters and the same non-stick pans are a by-product of the construction of spacecraft. Yes, you can also forget about the Internet, it also grew (partially) from the development of spacecraft control systems. This is just what I immediately remembered.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 4 December 2018 12: 33
        0
        But nothing. That is, nothing. You have listed the achievements. Just what they wanted to say, did I not understand something? Something like "it is necessary to develop cosmonautics"? Well, it is necessary, this does not need proof, I did not understand why they worked. The question is how to do it. And the answer to it is not yet visible.
      2. NordUral
        NordUral 4 December 2018 12: 53
        +1
        Alexander! What did you mean by this and to whom?
    3. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 December 2018 14: 47
      0
      Quote: Mikhail3
      In general, we do not need to go to the moon

      And how will our "partners" begin to arrange all kinds of technical stations there, we will immediately yell, why are we not doing anything there?
  20. The comment was deleted.
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 4 December 2018 12: 46
      0
      Why such a topic? There are no specialists and never will be. Why did NASA never, never, in any project come close to the Soviet level? Because she did not and could not have specialists, at least in something comparable with the Soviet ones. How is that? Yes, in general, quite simple.
      Russian, and then Soviet morality has always stood on the premise that there is something more than man himself. And for the sake of this, it’s not a pity to give life too. An abstract philosophical question, you say? Alas, the question is exclusively practical. To really push forward a breakthrough industry, you need to surrender to your work completely, whole, with all your might.
      Why do this under capitalism and in the West? Western man lives to enjoy. All youth must shoot their brain and body in order to gain knowledge and skills. And then the rest of your life violently burn yourself in order to move forward in knowledge and results. And enjoy ?! Even if a genius enjoys these (completely unnatural) processes, then geniuses are catastrophically small. They may not exist at all in two three generations. And you need thousands of people burning business. They are not. They simply cannot be!
      Our specialists burned just like that, because they not only worked, but fought. For the motherland. For the country. For all other people going to the future together. Denying himself so that the Motherland has wings. How do you imagine it now? Wings? For whom?! For whom to abandon yourself, burn your life as a sacrifice to whom? And sluggish designers in breakthrough industries are simply not needed.
      The West uses a weak palliative. That is, a talented engineer will be rich, independent and influential, as far as financiers allow him. This is not for real breakthroughs, but allows you to release iPhones. With us, even this is absolutely impossible! What experts, what are you talking about ...
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 4 December 2018 13: 03
        0
        By the way. "space" is not only "above", but also "below" in the depths of the ocean. The Chinese, by hook or by crook, bought up the assets of all companies engaged in the development of breakthrough marine-deep technologies and production facilities where such equipment is produced. This morning on TV I saw a message on TV that China had started building the world's first submarine naval base.
  21. wooja
    wooja 4 December 2018 13: 17
    0
    But it's ridiculous .... having the ready "energy" to spend money on raw projects, this is a pure divorce .... to just throw away the grandiose Soviet technological reserve in space --- this is already purely concrete sabotage ... moreover, the direction of development has long been known, it's not even about money, the repetition of the collapse of the USSR will continue or is already continuing --- we will destroy the remnants of the space industry
  22. Bypassed
    Bypassed 4 December 2018 13: 19
    +4
    And at the same time, in the same Galaxy:
    The Falcon-9 rocket launched from the US west coast, which carried 64 small spacecraft into space in the SSO-A mission. Such an amount is a record for US missiles, but the absolute satellite record of 102 satellites set by the Indian PSLV missile has not yet been overcome. Satellites were successfully separated in a circular solar-synchronous orbit.

    For the first time in the history of astronautics, the first stage of the Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket, which had already been returned twice before, successfully returned to the floating platform in the Pacific Ocean. This rocket took part in three space launches, and is probably ready for further operation. The ability to reuse subsequent missiles of the same class has been confirmed.

    At a distance of 121 million km from Earth, the NASA OSIRIS-REx automatic interplanetary station on December 3, entered a "low orbit" around the asteroid Bennu and will begin almost three-year exploration of the cosmic body.

    Of course, until there is a clear and clear state program of action, launches to the moon will be constantly postponed.
    And as for the Federation - I'm not surprised at all - after all, the director of the prototyping center, where the "plywood" model was made, is not a technologist, but a designer.
  23. Marvin
    Marvin 4 December 2018 14: 13
    0
    I think there should be a plan to reduce the cost of launches. Our weapons are 4 times cheaper in the series. Maybe that's why cooperation with the military.
  24. Old26
    Old26 4 December 2018 15: 02
    +2
    Quote: Wened
    In the USSR, space was exclusively military, forged the country's nuclear missile shield, all stations of the Salute series were military.

    Not at all. In addition to military targets, a lot of satellites of the national economy, communications, and television broadcasting were launched. Scientific satellites and laboratories, automatic interplanetary stations were developed and launched.
    Of course there was a military segment
    And about the fact that all the Salyut stations were military - that's not entirely true. There were purely military stations that were converted from Almaz stations. A characteristic feature of these stations was that the crew there consisted of two military personnel, and not one military and one civilian, as on clean "Salutes"

    Quote: wooja
    But it's ridiculous .... having ready "energy" to spend money on raw projects,

    There is no ready-made "Energy". And it is hardly worth talking about a project in the design and construction of which dozens of enterprises in all the republics of the Union took part. The sides of Energia were made on the basis of Zenit, which was assembled at Yuzhmash. Zenith is gone, as is Yuzhmash now in the other direction. And everything else - so far only paper projects, no matter how they are called: "Phoenix", or "Soyuz-5", or "Amur-5", or "Yenisei-5"
  25. skullcap
    skullcap 4 December 2018 15: 41
    +1
    Unfortunately, the problems of Roscosmos, for all their grandeur, are just a special case of the problems of the whole country.
    Bad man Kudrin - a litmus test of our future. His appointment - a cross on the development of the country. This is evidenced by all his previous activities in the government, when he squeezed out of the economy of the country all possible means and sent them to the development of the United States.
    His appointment is a bad sign, indicating that the fifth column is not only not defeated, but continues to lead the country.
    As for Rogozin, I don’t understand the steep hitting of some commentators on him, because as Deputy Prime Minister, he oversaw the military-industrial complex, defense orders, national defense, mobilization training, maritime policy, nuclear and aerospace, shipbuilding, aviation, radio-electronic industry, export control, military technical cooperation, civil defense, border policy, the Arctic, as well as the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome. And in general, the defense industry raised. And Roscosmos is one of the directions here. Personally, I think that he will cope with this particular area.
  26. Prutkov
    Prutkov 4 December 2018 16: 00
    -1
    The period that the world cosmonautics - international projects - is going through today is coming to an end. Already now one can observe the formation of separate space programs by regions (USA, EU, China). All this corresponds to the emerging "world poles" in the new "multipolar world". At the same time, "partners" try to "drown" competitors' projects. Therefore, Russia needs to stop wasting its resources on the ISS, and to develop its national projects. The lunar program may be one of them. If there is a desire to reduce the cost of launching satellites and make them competitive, then it is possible to create an emergency rescue system for satellites in a rocket accident, modeled on the one that saved the cosmonauts in the Union accident.
    1. Klaus
      Klaus 5 December 2018 20: 35
      +1
      You do not interfere with the policy, where it is not appropriate. Even during the years of the Cold War, the USSR and the USA collaborated, competed and focused on each other. Even when the USSR fell, the Dawn module was collected with Boeing money.
      Mixing political demagogy into space affairs is a kind of small-town populism, oriented towards fragile pseudo-patriotic minds
  27. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 4 December 2018 20: 13
    0
    Quote: Puncher
    I remember who said that it’s not a fic to build their planes, it’s better to buy Boeing ..

    Vladimir Putin in an interview in the early 2000s.
    The country must remember the hero

    Putin has no side here.
    The author of the collapse of the aircraft industry is E. Gaidar. "At the beginning of the 90s, Gaidar, as the head of the company, said that domestic aircraft construction is a very expensive pleasure, which requires a lot of money, intelligence, people, factories, so he agreed with Boeing, which will provide us with all aviation equipment in any quantity for favorable conditions. This treacherous phrase Gaidar gradually turned into the policy of the state. " This is an excerpt from an interview with Oleg Smirnov, before. Civil Aviation Commission of the Public Council "Rostrans Supervision".
    1. Klaus
      Klaus 5 December 2018 20: 55
      0
      The Dawn module (aka SGB salute) was built by our engineers for their money. It's all
  28. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 4 December 2018 21: 22
    +3
    As I read to the phrase
    More precisely, we have a rocket, it is "Energy" with g / n 100 + tons.
    so immediately stopped reading. If we follow the author's logic, we also have the Buran aerospace complex. Unfortunately, there was - does not mean that there is.
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. Klaus
    Klaus 5 December 2018 20: 43
    0
    Every time I drive through the Lavochkin NGO in Khimki, my soul is filled with hope. We hope that Exomars 2020 will stand as an exam on legal capacity. Such an enterprise ... God grant that everything works out ...
  31. Cannonball
    Cannonball 8 December 2018 17: 55
    -1
    We do not have "energy" and we should not indulge ourselves with illusions. All in the past.
    But "Rokot" with "Breeze-KM" quite fly for themselves, and recently there was another launch.
    And we are dealing with import substitution to a greater extent.
    As for the moon, lunar projects in our next 10-15 will not be implemented. Well, perhaps the AMS can run.
    No money - there will be nothing.