Condottiers and Kings: New Varangians of Ancient Russia. Part of 1

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The mysterious Varyags-Rus, who came together to Rurik in Novgorod, and Oleg to Kiev, were soon almost completely assimilated and literally dissolved in a large Slavic country, leaving behind only a name. Under Vladimir Svyatoslavich, other Varangians appear in Russia - hired squads, led by Norwegian or Swedish Yarls, ready to sell their services to anyone who was able to pay for their readiness to fight and die.





The exact date of the appearance of the first such unit is known - 980 year. Vladimir, who had fled three years ago from Yaropolk to Sweden, "returned to Novgorod with the Varangians and told Yaropolk ambassadors:" Go to my brother and tell him: Vladimir is coming at you, get ready to fight him. "

In military affairs, the Normans, as expected, turned out to be very good, and their reputation in Europe was such that the fallen spirit of Yaropolk made a clear mistake by fleeing from a well-fortified Kiev to Relatives, where he found his death. Both Polotsk and Kiev were captured, even the Varangians took upon themselves the murder of Yaropolk, and it seemed that Vladimir could now live and rejoice. However, it turned out that the Scandinavians were counting not only on the agreed fee, but also on the share in the extraction, which unexpectedly decreased due to the failed assault on Kiev (with subsequent looting, of course). In order to compensate for the lost profit, they demanded that Vladimir pay them a ransom for the capital: hryvnyas per 2 from each inhabitant (this is approximately 108 grams of silver). No matter how you count the population of a city, less than a kilogram of silver per ordinary Varyag fails, rather, more, and much more. Vladimir could not directly refuse them: a Norman combat unit requiring money was not a rally of Russian state employees. But, on the other hand, why pay everyone, even the rank and file, if you can negotiate with the commanders? Having promised the Varangians to raise money in a month, Vladimir very successfully conducted advocacy work among "good, smart and brave husbands", who eventually remained in his service, having received good posts and even cities. The rest, realizing that the situation had changed, asked to let them go to serve in Constantinople. Vladimir gladly fulfilled this request, not forgetting to warn the emperor: "The Varangians are coming to you, do not even think to keep them in the capital, otherwise they will do the same evil to you as here, but put them in different places, but don’t let any one here."

So, despite some complications, the experience of attracting Scandinavian combat units was considered quite successful. The next prince, who will take advantage of Vladimir, will be his son Yaroslav, and in the future this scheme will become traditional: the hired Varyags of Novgorod against the hired pechenegs of Kiev. But the time of the famous king Yaritsleiva of the Scandinavian sagas has not yet come, and while Yaroslav was in the shadows, looking and gaining wisdom. Especially since it was from anyone.

The first of the famous Norwegians with whom Yaroslav could meet was the great-grandson of King Harald the Beautiful-Haired Olav Tryggvason - one of the great heroes of Scandinavia, Snorri Sturlson calls him "the most beautiful, stately and powerful, and also the most skilful of those Norwegians who have ever been it was said in legends. "


Monument to Olav Trygvason in Trondheim


In Novgorod he ended up in the year of Yaroslav's birth and spent 9 years there. Olav became the hero of many historical sagas, as well as the work "Acts of the Bishops of the Hamburg Church" (c. 1070) by the German chronicler Adam of Bremen, so that historians have enough information about his life. In 971 he was captured at sea by the Estonian pirates (whom Snorri Sturlson habitually calls the Vikings). Historians identify Estas with Chudya, which in the "Tale of Bygone Years" is mentioned among the peoples "giving tribute to Russia." Further in the "Saga of Olav the son of Tryggvi" it says:

"One of the Estonians, Klerkon, took Olav and his educator, the noble Norwegian Torolva ... Having decided that Thorolve was too old as a slave and that he would not benefit from him, Klercon killed him. Olav he left for himself and in his country exchanged for good goat. "


The owner, in turn, traded the descendant of kings for a new cloak. A few years later, Olav was accidentally recognized by Sigurd, the brother of his mother, who came to collect tribute for Prince Vladimir Svyatoslavich, who returned to Novgorod: “Sigurd ... saw a very beautiful boy in the market, and realized that the foreigner. Sigurd asked the boy how he was His name is and who he is. He called himself Olav and said that his father was Tryggvi, son of Olav, and his mother Astrid, daughter of Eirik Biodoskalli. Then Sigurd realized that the boy was his nephew "(Snorri Storlson).

The prince was bought and was in Novgorod. In addition to all the advantages of Olav, he had an excellent memory and, having met Klerkon at the Novgorod market, recognized him. He did not forget the customs of his country:

"Olav had a hatchet in his hand, and he hit Klerkon on the head with it so that the ax hit the brain, and immediately ran home and told Sigurd ... In Holmgard (Novgorod), then there was such an indestructible world that, according to the custom there , anyone who killed a man who was not outlawed must be killed. Therefore, all the people rushed to find a boy. "


However, Sigurd took his nephew to his wife Vladimir, who, "looking at Olav, replied that it was impossible to kill such a beautiful child, and called for people fully armed."

Snorri Sturlson calls this woman Allogy and claims that she had a personal warrior squad, which she kept at her own expense, and even competed with the prince "to get the most valiant men in her squad." It is identified by some historians with Olava, which in the Ioakimovskaya chronicle, outlined, but lost by Tatishchev, is mentioned as Vladimir's wife. The situation became so heated that the incident was "reported to the king, and he was forced to appear with his retinue to prevent the bloodshed ... Konung appointed a virus", which the princess agreed to pay to the relatives of the slain. Enrolling in the service of Vladimir, Olav received his first combat experience and even rose to the rank of commander of the local Varangian squad. But then, as they say in the saga, he fell prey to the slander and, feeling the prince’s distrust, left Novgorod. Starting from 991, he made a series of raids on Northumberland, Scotland, Ireland and Wales, as well as on the Hebrides, Isle of Man and Walland in France. In 994, Olav, in alliance with the King of Denmark, Swain Forkbeard, attempted to seize London, but was content with 16 000 silver pounds of compensation, converted to Christianity and, on the way to Orkney Islands, returned to Norway in 995. The ruler of this country, Earl Hakon, fled and was killed by his slave. Adam of Bremen wrote in 1080 g.: "He (Olav) was very skilled in divination ... engaged in witchcraft and kept the sorcerers with him, with whom he conquered the country."


Peter Nicholas Arbo, "Olaf Trygvasson Proclaimed King of Norway"


However, folk legends, on the contrary, claim that the trolls and elves left Norway when Olav Tryggvason became the king there: “Our ancient gods burned in fire long ago. There is a kening: the god burner.” The skalds commemorate a mortal with this kening. Olav Tryggvason named him "(Snorri Sturlson).

Condottiers and Kings: New Varangians of Ancient Russia. Part of 1


Hallfred Vandradaskald (Hard Skald - that is, a poet with whom it is difficult to compete) wrote about the events of those years:

Odin kind of poetry loved,
To the delight of a sweet man,
And I, as a gift from heaven, saved
The custom of the old age.
Odin power was sweet for us
And only coercive force
Gods native skaldov took away
And taught new faith.


But high personal prowess and courage did not save Olav: he was defeated in the war with the sons of Hakon - Yarl Eirik and Swain, who were supported by the kings of Sweden and Denmark, and at the age of thirty died in the Battle of Sveld (1000).


The last battle of Olav Trygvason


With the death of Olav, Norway for a short time returned to the former gods, but for the introduction of Christianity in Iceland, Olav Tryggvason was canonized by the Catholic Church and is considered the patron saint of this island nation.

The next king of Norway, who visited Novgorod, was Olav Haraldson, who began his viking career in 1007, at the age of 12 years (under the supervision of an experienced helmsman of Hrani). Olav fought in Jutland, Frisia, England, Finland, was baptized in 1013 in Rouen.


Olav the Holy - Stained Glass, England


Then his ships came to Ladoga, in the summer he ravaged the coasts of Kurland and the islands of Saarem, Gotland and Oland, and spent the winter in Novgorod, where he could not meet with the local prince, Yaroslav. In 1015, Mr. Olav returned to his homeland and, taking advantage of the favorable environment (Danish king Whip Mighty and Norwegian Earl Eirik, son of Hakon were busy with the war in England), managed to seize power in the country. Supported by the Swedes, Earl Svein was defeated by Olav in the battle of Nesyar. The king of Sweden Olav Shetkonung was just about to give his daughter Ingigerd married.


Olav Shetkonung, a commemorative medal


The king of Holmgard Yaritsleiv (now known as Yaroslav the Wise) was recognized as the most worthy bridegroom. But Ingigerd, repeatedly named in the saga of the wisest of women, managed to fall in love with the enemy of her father, the Norwegian hero-king Olav Haraldson, in absentia. Attempts to explain to her that the Norwegian konung Yaroslav is not suitable for footwear, she turned on the princess mode from the Flying Ship cartoon film ("And I don’t want, I don’t want by calculation, but I for love, for love I want!"). For several months, Ingigerd was very skillful and of high quality hysteria, literally driving her father to madness and white heat. Along the way, weaving intrigues, the top of which were the events of the spring ting, on which she persuaded her cousin Rögnnwald to come out with a proposal to end the still sluggish ongoing war with the Norwegian Olav by a dynastic marriage. Ingigerd herself nobly agreed to sacrifice herself to the "enemy of the Fatherland". The proposal pleased everyone except the king, who accused Jarl of treason and threatened with expulsion from the country. But then the “mighty bond” (landowner) Torgnjur rose from his place and declared:

“Nowadays, the King’s Swedes do not behave the way they used to. The king, who rules now, doesn’t say anything except what he likes. He tries to keep Norway, which was not done by any King Swedes, and It brings trouble to many people. We demand that you make peace with Olaf Tolstoy and give your daughter to his wife. And if you refuse, we will act like our ancestors, who drowned the five kings in the quagmire of Mulathing as arrogant as you. "


Those who gathered at the Thing greeted this speech with blows of swords on shields, and the king felt a distinct taste of rotten swamp water and immediately recalled that Sweden is a democratic country:

"Then the king gets up and says that he will do everything as the bonds want. He says that all the king of the Swedes did this: they always acted as the bonds decided. Then the bonds stopped making noise."


The king had to make peace, but instead of Ingigerd, he sent another daughter to Norway, born from the concubine Astrid. There the story repeated: now the Norwegians did not want to fight the Swedes because of such trifles as a substituted bride, and forced Olav to accept Astrid. Rognvald fell out of favor and was about to flee Sweden - away from the wrath of the king, who threatened to hang him at the first opportunity. Ingigerd saved him, demanding that Rögnwald accompany her to Gardariki - yes, she still had to become the princess of Novgorod, and then all of Russia. But she not only preserved her feelings for the Norwegian king, but did not even hide. These are the passions in the princely family, according to the rotten skin manuscript - Ingigerd says to Yaroslav:

"In this chamber it is good, and rarely where there is the same or great beauty, and so much wealth in one house, and so many good leaders and brave husbands, but still it is better that chamber where Olav king sits, the son of Harald, although she stands on one pillar. "

The king was angry with her and said: “Such words are offensive, and you again show your love for Olav the king,” and hit her on the cheek.

She said: "And yet there is more difference between you than I can, as befits, say with words."

She left angry and told her friends that she wanted to leave his land and no longer accept such shame from him. "

Then, with great difficulty, Ingigerd was able to persuade him to reconcile with her husband. As for Yaroslav, in the same saga it is reported that: “the king was so much in love with Ingigerd that he could do almost nothing besides her will”.

By the time Ingigerd arrived in Yaroslav, Yaroslav waged a difficult war with his brother Buritslav, in which the most active part was taken by the Norman unit of Eymund Khrhinson - the events of those years are described in the article “The War of the Children of Vladimir by the Saints through the Eyes of the Scandinavian Sagas.

Therefore, we will not repeat, but let us tell you about the fate of another Norman detachment, which left Kiev at Constantinople just at that time. Skylitsa writes:

"When the emperor's sister died in Russia - and even earlier her husband Vladimir, then Khrisokhir (" Golden Hand "is the Greek version of an unknown name), having attracted an 800 person to him, and having put them on trial, came to Constantinople, as if wanting to enter military service. But when the emperor demanded that he lay down weapon and only in this form appeared on a date, he did not want it and left through Propontida (Sea of ​​Marmara). Arriving in Abydos, and having encountered the theme of the theme of the theme, he easily defeated him and went down to Lemnos. Here he and his companions were deceived by the false promises given by the chief fleet Kivirreot and David of Ohrid, the stratigus of Samos, and Nicephorus Kavasiloy, the duka of Solunsky, and all were killed. "


We do not know why this unfortunate Chrysohir decided to leave Kiev at the hottest time of the Civil War, which was just unfolding between the sons of Vladimir. Perhaps the new prince of Kiev decided to revise the terms of the contract. Perhaps there was a conflict within the Norman detachment, part of which soldiers decided to go after Chrysohir, who promised them the "golden mountains" in the service of the emperor. Mutual distrust led to armed conflict and the death of these people.

Fast forward now to 1024 year, when in the fight against his brother Mstislav Tmutorkansky Yaroslav the Wise traditionally used the services of Scandinavian mercenaries. The new Varangian squad differed from the previous ones mainly by the personality of its leader, who, according to the chronicles, was blind! This physical disability did not prevent him from taking an active part in the events that followed. Moreover, if you believe the same annals, he personally fought on the hottest direction in the battle of Listvina and, when his unit was defeated, did not die, as one would expect, but safely left the battlefield and retreated to Kiev. Naturally, immediately there are many questions about this issue. After all, sent "on earnings" squads of the Normans least of all resembled shelters for injured veterans. The selection criteria even ordinary soldiers were unusually high. Pretending to be in the squad of a noble Yarl or "sea king" Scandinavian had to be able to juggle with three drawn swords, throw two spears with both hands at once, catch a dart thrown at him by the enemy (to throw him back at once), fight the sword in one hand and a spear in the other. In addition, the Norman required the ability to row for days without rest, swim in heavy clothing, climb rocks, ski, and archery. All of the above skills can not be called exceptional - in varying degrees, it should have been able to do ordinary, no outstanding warriors. The real heroes could, in full arms, jump higher than their height (for example, the hero of the Saga of Nyala, an Icelander Gunnar from Khlidarendi) and even jump over the enemy who surrounded them.


Gunnar of Hlidarendi, illustration from Saga of Nyala


Or, as the Norwegian king Olav Tryggvason, already familiar to us, run along the blades of the ship's oars while rowing.

The same king "put the child with a small plank on his head instead of the goal and shot down the plank with the arrow without the slightest harm to the child." Even more stringent demands were made of military leaders: it depended on them, the Scandinavians would return home with booty and great glory, or die in a foreign land. In addition, it was the leader who entered into an agreement with a foreign ruler and it was not just difficult, but impossible to imagine a king or prince who would agree to pay money to a squad headed by a blind Norman, regardless of his previous merits and military achievements. Let us turn once more to the information that the ancient Russian chronicles and Scandinavian sources report.

So, according to the chronicle data, in 1024, "when Yaroslav was in Novgorod, Mstislav came from Tmutorokan to Kiev, and the people of Kiev did not accept him. He went and sat on the throne in Chernigov ... Yaroslav sent overseas for Varyags, and Yakun came with the Vikings, and there was this Yakun CE LEP, and his cloak (luda) was woven with gold ... Mstislav, having learned about it, came to meet Lichvat towards them. "

So, when the place we need is found, it is easy to make sure that the phrase "CE LEP" clearly serves as an indication of the beauty of this Varangian prince, and not at all of his blindness. Why did this misunderstanding arise? The fact is that at the end of the 18th and the beginning of the 19th centuries professional Russian historians did not yet exist in nature: Old Russian manuscripts were researched and translated into modern Russian by historians-amateurs who took the expression "ce lep" (was beautiful) for the word " blind. " Their works became the basis for the work of later historians who uncritically transferred information about the "blind" Varangian Prince Yakun into their works. Only in the twentieth century the mistake was finally noticed, but, in the writings of Karamzin and other classic historians, no one, of course, corrected it. And because so far, even in serious literature, you can meet with this strange version.

And what about the "blind" Yakun report Scandinavian sources? To begin with, the rare Yakun name in Russia is a variant of the Scandinavian name Hakon (the most famous pairs are the names Igor-Ingvar and Oleg-Helgi). Most modern researchers identify Yakun with the Russian chronicles with the enemy of the King of Norway, Olav Haraldson, Jarl Hakon, son of the former Norwegian ruler Eirik. This version is confirmed in the Scandinavian Saga of Olav the Holy, which emphasizes the beauty of the hero who was captured by King Olav: “Hakon Jarl was brought to the ship of the king. He was handsome at a miracle. He had long hair, beautiful as silk. They They were tied up with a golden hoop. When he sat down on the stern of the ship, Olav said: “The truth is that your race is beautiful, but your luck has been exhausted.” Hakon was lucky at that time: he was released with the condition that he would not appear more in his homeland. went to Denmark and England, where his uncle Knut ruled . Oguchi then - briefly appeared in the territory of Kievan Rus after the death of King Olav, Hakon briefly became the ruler of Norway, but it is here that "the luck of its kind" and exhausted: he died at sea while returning from England..

In 1029, Olav Haraldson again appeared in Russia - he ruled Norway for 13 for years, brutally spreading autocracy and Christianity in her, but not all his subjects liked the brutal power of the king and new religion. As a result, in 1028, Olav was expelled from Norway, and he, through Sweden, went to Novgorod, where he met Ingigerd. Here are some verses he composed at that time:

"I stood on a hill and looked at a woman,
As she carried her beautiful horse.
A beautiful woman deprived me of my joy ... "

"There used to be a magnificent tree,
Evergreen at any time of the year
And with flowers, as the teams of the Eagles knew;
Now the foliage of the tree quickly faded in Garda;
Since the woman knotted a gold bandage. "


However, if you believe "Strands about Eimund," he was sad not for long, since in Novgorod "he had a secret love affair with Ingigerd." It is not surprising that Yaroslav tried to politely escort the distinguished guest outside his country. At first, he offered him to become the ruler of Volga Bulgaria, an independent state, which Olav still needed to try to win. When Olav refused, Yaroslav, at the first hint of a possible return to Norway, gladly supplied him with "horses and all the necessary equipment." Leaving his son Magnus in the care of Yaroslav and Ingigerd, Olav went to Norway, where he died in the Battle of Stilklivalir (1030).


Icon "Departure of St. Olav from Novgorod to Norway for martyrdom"


For his efforts to baptize Norway in 1164, by Pope Alexander III, he was canonized and became the last Western saint who was also revered by the Orthodox Church.

Meanwhile, on the territory of Russia at the same time two future horsebacks of Norway appeared at once: the brother of Olav by his mother Harald, who was 15 years old, and the son Magnus, who turned 6. Magnus, as we remember, was left by his father in the care of the Russian princely family. Harald arrived in Novgorod after his defeat at the Battle of Styklastadir (only two fights ended in defeats in which Harald participated - the first, at Styklastadir, and the last - in England, at Stamford Bridge). Olav was against his participation in the battle, but Harald (who, according to the testimony of the sagas, already looked like an adult man) insisted on his own. He was wounded and fled - first to Sweden, then to Yaroslav.

Magnus was the son of a slave, but in those years when every self-respecting king had a lot of wives and concubines, this circumstance did not serve as a great obstacle to the throne. The boy grew up at the court of Yaroslav, constantly circling around the warriors, and during feasts and general dinners he entertained everyone by walking around the tables in his arms. But, as it is told in the Saga of Magnus the Good and Harald the Stern Ruler (the rotten skin manuscript), not everyone loved him:

"One warrior, quite elderly, disliked him, and once, when the boy walked on the tables, he put his hand up and knocked off the table, and said he did not want his presence. People judged this differently: some were for the boy, and some - for the warrior. And on the same evening, when the king went to bed, and when the warriors were still there and drank, Magnus went up to that warrior, and held a small ax in his hand, and he struck the warrior with a mortal blow. take the boy and kill him and so take revenge for that squad ika, and some resisted and wanted to experience how much the king loves him. Then one person gets up and takes the boy in his arms, and runs with him to the room where the king slept, and throws him into bed with the king and says: " Better watch your fool another time. "Konung replies:" Often you choose the wrong words for him, or has he done something now for this? "

Upon learning of the murder of a warrior, "said king: Royal work, adoptee, - and laughed, - I will pay for you virus."


Having proved to everyone his "steepness" and readiness to uphold honor and dignity, Magnus not only did not become an outcast in the princely palace, but, on the contrary, raised his status and moved to the position of the beloved "regimental son": love, and he was the more loved, the older and wiser he became. "

And in Norway at this time, as always, sooner or later, occurs with a change of power, sobering comes. The commander who defeated Olav (his former squadron Calv) received nothing as a reward from Svein, the son of King of Denmark Knut the Mighty, who became the ruler of Norway — and the title of Jarl and power over Norway were promised. In turn, both influential labels and simple bonds of this country were dissatisfied with the dominance of the Danes. But they all knew the character of the brother of the former king, Harald, heard that as a child, playing with his brothers, he sculpted soldiers from clay who would take gold away from those lands, they remembered the sword, which was easier to cut their heads, tied to his hand 15 year old boy. The fact that Harald, thirsting for revenge in Russia, grew and gained combat experience, did not please anyone and did not inspire optimism. And because the chances of the young Magnus grew literally before our eyes. Contacts between Russia and Norway after the death of Olav (Yaroslav's ally) were interrupted, trade was banned, but circumstances turned towards a new rapprochement between the two countries. In 1034, despite the ban, a Norwegian merchant Karl arrived in Aldeygyuborg (Ladoga) with his companions:

“As soon as the locals learned that they were Norwegians, they not only did not want to sell them anything, but the case went to battle, and the residents wanted to attack them. And when Karl saw that it was becoming dangerous, he told the local people: regarded as haste and great audacity if you take instead of your king to inflict wounds on foreign people or rob them, although they came with their goods and do you no harm. And it’s not at all known whether your king will like it or not. wait for the decision king. "


Yaroslav ordered the merchant to be arrested, but Magnus unexpectedly interceded for him, saying: "Not soon Norway will be mine, if you kill everyone who comes from there."

Thinking, Jaroslav changed his decision:

"King Karl says: Here is the money that you have to take with you, and along with that some difficult thing will follow. You have to give this money to Lendrmann in Norega and all those people who have some influence and who want to be Magnus's friends son of Olav. "

Karl did an excellent job: the ambassadors from Norway arrived in Novgorod the following year. According to the contract, Magnus became the king and adopted son of Calw. He entered the history of Norway with the nickname "Good," but why and on what basis this very warlike and no less cruel king got him, remains unknown to this day.


Magnus Olavson


To be continued ...
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  1. Cat
    +6
    2 August 2018 05: 53
    The mysterious Varyags-Rus, who came together to Rurik in Novgorod, and Oleg to Kiev, were soon almost completely assimilated and literally dissolved in a large Slavic country, leaving behind only a name. Under Vladimir Svyatoslavich, other Varangians appear in Russia - hired squads, led by Norwegian or Swedish Yarls, ready to sell their services to anyone who was able to pay for their readiness to fight and die.

    Valery heard about an owl and a globe? I know heard and know!
    Moreover, you so convincingly and emotionally proved that the Varangians are Russians, and the Russians are Scandinavians in the last article, that they brought me up on Karamzin’s books, they convinced me completely of the opposite! Those Varangians, not those Varangians! And today about the real Vikings! So maybe if the Scandinavians did not sing about Rurik, Oleg, Igor and Svyatoslav in the skalds - this is not proof that there were no first Russian princes, but the fact that the first Rus had nothing to do with the Scandinavians?
    The article is good, better than the previous ones from the Russian cycle. But compiling the facts, you need to give a full and comprehensive assessment, and remember the globe, the owl and the cat. At the same time, the last two pulled on the first subject is very inconvenient!
    Yours!
    1. VLR
      +4
      2 August 2018 07: 13
      Yes, in Russia there were two "waves" of the Vikings. The first are the Ruses: the Scandinavian International of the Ladoga region, who were there for various reasons - merchants, settlers, fugitives, pursued by law. In general, at first it looked like the pirate republic of the island of Tortuga, then, with an increase in the flow of colonists, to the Boer republics in South Africa. Naturally, there was closest contact with Novgorod — either military action for spheres of influence, or a temporary alliance. After the complete conquest of Ladoga Vladimir, exiled by Olav Trygvason (an ally and friend of Vladimir), Jarl Eirik dealt a terrible blow to the Rus area, completely ruined it, as a result all trade was moved to Novgorod, and many Russ also moved to it. As PVL testifies, "Novgorod has become infested": "Novgorodians are the people of the Varangian kind, and before that they were Slovenes." But Russo was still a bit, and they quickly assimilated. And then the Normans began to come from Norway and Sweden - precisely as mercenaries, not one by one, but whole squads under the command of reputable field commanders. They did not stay in Russia - they were returning home. They were the classic Vikings. Other Scandinavians, of course, also came - merchants, ambassadors, exiles, but they were not Varyags - they were called by nationality.
  2. +4
    2 August 2018 07: 13
    Beautiful article.

    Wise Yaroslav, wise. And the wife anyway, dreamed of something else. And then I obeyed, I suppose.
    And how does it all end?

    "It is perhaps with this
    The order would be.
    But out of love he is for children
    He divided the whole earth. "(C).

    What is the story about? Do not be henpecked.
    1. +3
      2 August 2018 09: 23
      Maybe he’s wise from that?
      "Marry, my friend Socrates said, if you are lucky - you will be happy, if you are not lucky - you will become a philosopher" (the movie "That Munchausen")
  3. +5
    2 August 2018 08: 28
    Dear Valery, such revolutions spoil even a popular article. Do not go down to the level of jargon. It is clear that "they say so." But you can’t write like that!
    Proving to everyone its "steepness"
    1. +10
      2 August 2018 08: 42
      Incorrect comment you wrote:
      Something like this:
      "Valery, to use such momentum in an article on a historical topic - not in terms ..." winked
    2. VLR
      +3
      2 August 2018 08: 50
      Well, I sometimes want to indulge in and slightly "unload" the article, make it more informal and easy to read. I will try to take into account the remark.
    3. +1
      2 August 2018 11: 21
      Quote: kalibr
      But you can’t write like that!

      Say it to A.A. Bushkov. "The concrete boys of the Stroganovs hired the right Ermak brigade against the Kuchum chaos." Bushkov does this deliberately - he writes that the “brothers” of the dashing 90s had a purely medieval mindset, and it’s easier for a modern person to understand the essence and mechanisms of the medieval “showdowns” if you understand that for the most part their participants are typical “brothers”. I’m silent about Sidorov’s translation:
      And Oleg doesn’t tickle,
      Shaw rushes to them with dushmans
      The cunning Gzak, but the bloody Konchak.
      Dawn hid and the cloud
      I rolled from the sea on the shay:
      Nevprotyk loosen up with a bitch pile
      Four trump kings.
      Here, the blood drop is killed on barrels!
      Boys catch thunder from thunder:
      Get high on the guys sharpening
      About smoked shaved vats!
      Pahanka Russia! Native black earth!
      You are already in kind over the hill!
  4. +4
    2 August 2018 09: 04
    Informative and interesting article. Congratulations, author! The main thing is less fables about Viking Rus and everything in openwork laughing
  5. VLR
    +1
    2 August 2018 09: 13
    By the way, did you notice the video clip prepared for you at the end of the article? An excerpt from the film "Vikings" (1958): modern actors and stuntmen are trying to repeat Olav Tryggvason's corporate trick - running along the drakkar oars.
    1. +3
      2 August 2018 11: 34
      Of course, they did. At one time ... an awesome movie.
  6. +4
    2 August 2018 09: 43
    It was Russkaya Zemlya, a huge state in size and population compared with dwarf Norway and Sweden, in the 10-11 centuries that formed the political agenda in them and sent its agents of influence to the leadership of these barbarian countries, the vast majority of pagans.

    Christian Russia appeared in relation to the native Scandinavia as a peculiar Byzantium.

    The natives themselves served the Russians as golimny migrant workers - mercenaries, who essentially played the role of the personal guard of the princes and the executors of their delicate errands, such as the murder of political opponents without trial. Wild and extremely small Scandinavians were not capable of anything else.

    PS Especially delivers a clumsy "translation" of the true Slavic names of Russian princes stupid Scandinavian skalds - Yaritslev, Buritslav, etc. Although local Russophobes - “philologists” will now go bile, proving that they are the original Scandinavian names laughing
    1. VLR
      +3
      2 August 2018 09: 52
      Yaritsleyv, ​​Buritslav is not a translation, but an adaptation of Slavic names to the "northern language" - as they heard them. We also distort the names of foreign-speaking peoples.
      1. 0
        2 August 2018 09: 53
        Tell me - how was the name Olav reproduced in Russian chronicles?
        1. VLR
          +3
          2 August 2018 09: 57
          More often - as Olaf. But this is a phonetically very simple name.
          The article, by the way, gives an example of the transformation of the name Hakon in Russia into the difficultly recognizable Yakun, as well as: Ingvar - Igor, Helgi - Oleg.
          1. +3
            2 August 2018 15: 14
            Quote: VlR
            More often - as Olaf. But this is a phonetically very simple name.
            The article, by the way, gives an example of the transformation of the name Hakon in Russia into the difficultly recognizable Yakun, as well as: Ingvar - Igor, Helgi - Oleg.

            I also add Ragnwald - Rogvold, Rugnhild - Rogneda. In order not to cause a violent reaction, I will not mention Rurik.
            Quote: Operator
            Although local russophobes - "philologists" will now emanate bile, proving that this is the original Scandinavian names

            I am sure that such nonsense would be like a balm for your soul, but you will not wait smile
            We, "local russophobes", will not easily provide us with the opportunity to easily have a public fuck. smile
          2. 0
            2 August 2018 18: 26
            VLR

            And why is the option of direct correspondence of the name Olga / Oleg marked out to the Slavic name Volga / Volg?
            1. +2
              2 August 2018 22: 08
              Quote: Operator
              VLR

              And why is the option of direct correspondence of the name Olga / Oleg marked out to the Slavic name Volga / Volg?

              Well, just swept it all smile Like a bunch of other arguments that don't suit them. It is pretended that they do not exist.
            2. VLR
              +1
              2 August 2018 22: 56
              Because there is no Slavic name Volga. This is another version of the name Helga. And this is absolutely not insulting for Russians and Slavs.
            3. 0
              2 August 2018 23: 32
              And you ask linguists - why did they come up with some rules for the transition of phonemes? And they insist that these rules apply to all words in all languages. Historians might have been pleased to state the identity of these names, but linguists say it is impossible. smile
              1. 0
                3 August 2018 03: 15
                Finally, you escaped with bile ("Volga / Olga"), philologist you are our Russophobian laughing
    2. +2
      2 August 2018 11: 08
      Quote: Operator
      Although local russophobes - "philologists" will now emanate bile, proving that this is the original Scandinavian names

      Especially the name Waldemar, first noted in Denmark in 1131 (Waldemar I the Great, named after his great-grandfather - Vladimir Monomakh). What is characteristic, A.K. Tolstoy, without any invention, is precisely what Vladimir calls him:

      He first went to rugichans without fear,
      King Vladimir, great-grandson of Monomakh,
      Varyagov prince and dona ruler.

      Well, since Swedes since 1253, the "originally Swedish" name Svante has been in fashion (Svantopolk = Svyatopolk) laughing
  7. +1
    2 August 2018 09: 49
    Adam of Bremen wrote in 1080: "he (Olav) was very skilled in divination ... he practiced witchcraft and kept the sorcerers with whom he conquered the country." However, folk traditions, on the contrary, claim that trolls and elves left Norway when Olav Tryggvason became king there

    And one does not contradict one another: according to legend, he defeated trolls with spells:
    Olof Saint, the brave king,
    He sat on the Norwegian throne.
    At that time there was Hornelummer Mountain
    Full of hated trolls.

    Like pure gold, the sun burns over Trondheim.

    He orders to build and push from the shore
    Rook excellent snap.
    “We will leave the hotel to ask
    The evil spirits are witty! ”

    The feedman climbed onto a pile of good.
    "Parking with bad fame
    Hornelummer: this mountain
    Captured by a troll horde.

    Lives on earth for many years
    Their elder, nicknamed Ared.
    Our boats with the fellows in the rock
    The villain and the scared closes.

    He gazes with bonfires.
    Nails blacker than tar
    Bent like goat horns
    At least an elbow length.

    His beards at the very knees
    Trembling horse mane.
    Looking sickly at his claws
    And see the tail is scaly. ”

    On the stem of the "Bison" Olof Saint
    Jumped up and shouted: “Today
    We are ready to sail! Give the moorings
    Friends, in the name of the Lord! ”

    No matter how you pant, no matter how groaning, -
    "Bison," arguing with the waves,
    I had to carry the king with the squad
    To Hornelummer, trolls on the mountain.

    The monstrous troll was on patrol.
    On the blue rocks and steeps.
    Suddenly the king of Oluf appears
    On the "Bison" its floating!

    "Tell me, Redbeard,
    How did you not die of fear?
    Big trouble awaits you!
    Remember you Hornelummer!

    Nobody moored to our land!
    I’ll knock you down:
    I’ll plant in the rock with one hand
    I’m a rook that hangs here! ”

    “Don’t you swear in vain, old man,
    Ared, full of malice!
    In the womb of the mountain, throwing a lasso,
    Try to drag the Bison. ”

    He grabbed the "Bison" by the stem and by the horn,
    But immediately in the rock knee-deep
    Tied up and could not pull out his legs
    From stone captivity.

    "I am stuck in stone, but the ridge and arms
    Not a bit lost power.
    On your own skin you will try
    My youthful vein! ”

    "A stone block, an unclean spirit,
    In front of the baptized people
    You stand before Judgment Day
    Doing no evil to anyone! ”

    Take it, hag came running,
    Stretching his neck disgustingly.
    She, what is urine, goggled,
    Squealing: "Get out!"

    She commanded that Saint Olof
    He took away his legs immediately
    And he ordered her to stand still
    And he turned the hag into a cliff.


    Small trolls sitting in a hole
    Grab iron hooks:
    “As soon as our mother is silent,
    Is there any ill-fated in that?

    And if no one else is to blame,
    Like an enemy red-bearded,
    We will treat with iron rods
    The destroyer of our breed. "

    Glorious joke to his retinue
    Amused Olof Saint:
    With a spell he brought stone to stone
    And he brought the wall to the wall.


    They locked up the mountain
    So that did not go
    From this time from the bowels of the mountain
    Neither trolls, nor their offspring.

    The troll of the smaller locked up raged
    And such shouted speeches:
    “We are lumps heavier than this mountain,
    Shoulder happened! ”
    Brothers, tail propping up his forehead,
    They began to plant each other.
    But the rock was too heavy for them:
    The ridges were crushed by a strain.

    Holy Olof the king was right
    Wickedness is not peace.
    If you want to approach Hornelummer, please!
    There is not a single troll.

    Like pure gold, the sun burns over Trondheim.
  8. +2
    2 August 2018 09: 57
    according to "Strands of Ammund," he was sad for not long, since in Novgorod "he had a secret love affair with Ingigerd."
    An interesting conflict - given the fact that both Olav, and Ingigerda (St. Anna Novgorodskaya), and Yaroslav the Wise are now counted among the saints! This is about the origin of Rurik: it is known that the Monomashichi have the haplotype N1, and the Olgovichs have the “Aryan” R1a. So scientists argue in which branch of the Rurikovich wife went "to the left." Proponents of Aryan descent Rurik claim that Monomashichi in real life are descendants of Olav.
    1. +1
      2 August 2018 14: 53
      I posted here recently (Trilobite Master (Michael) 26 July 2018 15: 17) a table with the results of genetic studies of Rurik's descendants. Among the descendants of Mikhail of Chernigov, where R1a manifested itself so amicably, there is also N1c. There, the salt is that the descent from Rurik Obolensky, Volkonsky and Baryatinsky (R1a) is most likely the result of some falsification of the pedigree that took place in times close to Ivan the Terrible, that is, the genealogy itself is very doubtful and questioned long before genetic research.
      An article about the results of research here:
      https://oko-planet.su/science/sciencediscussions/
      148409-proishozhdenie-ryurika-i-gedimina-v-svete-
      poslednih-geneticheskih-issledovaniy.html
      An article in the wiki about the ancestor of the Verkhov princes Yurii Tarusa, allegedly the son of Mikhail of Chernigov here:
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Юрий_(князь_тарусск
      iy)
      In the annals only one son of Mikhail of Chernigov is mentioned - Rostislav who settled in Hungary as a result.
      So, on the basis of the saga, I did not rinse the name of Ingigerda, accusing her of adultery. In those days, women knew very well what marital debt was and it was holy that they vomited. Eleonora Aquitaine is even more than a hundred years old, and this fashion will not come to Russia any time soon.
      1. VLR
        +1
        2 August 2018 15: 12
        Well, who rinses? It is simply stated that one of the sources speaks of the "secret love affair" by Olav and Ingigerd. As the development of the theme of the maiden love of this princess. As they say, you can't throw a word out of a song. But it is not claimed that it was in fact.
        1. +2
          2 August 2018 15: 23
          Quote: VlR
          Well, who rinses?

          On the basis of this saga, our anti-Normanists have already developed the theory that Vsevolod Yaroslavich, the father of Monomakh is actually Olafsson and N1c for Rurik from Olaf, while Svyatoslavichi and Ol'govichi with R1a are real descendants of Rurik-Slav. Pechalka. They are at the door - they are at the window.
          Quote: VlR
          But it is not claimed that it was in fact.

          Yes, the fact of the matter is that sad
          1. VLR
            0
            2 August 2018 15: 26
            Well, except that the author of the saga. Not by me.
            1. 0
              2 August 2018 17: 05
              Quote: VlR
              Well, except that the author of the saga. Not by me.

              It's not about you - you are something more likely a Norman:
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              our anti-Normanists have already developed the theory that Vsevolod Yaroslavich, the father of Monomakh is actually Olafsson and N1c from the Ruriks from Olaf, while the Svyatoslavichs and Olgovichs from R1a are the real descendants of the Rurik-Slav

              I wrote about the same above:
              Quote: Weyland
              Proponents of Aryan descent Rurik claim that Monomashichi in real life are descendants of Olav.
              1. +4
                2 August 2018 18: 12
                Quote: Weyland
                about the same I wrote above

                You know, ten or fifteen years ago, I considered myself to be rather supporters of anti-Normanism. He was young, hot, it was somehow pleasant to think that Rurik was a Slavic prince, and not a Swedish Jarl or king. Own, dear. smile I did not understand those who are foaming at the mouth, as I am now, smile argued the Norman origin of Rurik.
                I read, studied what was written on this subject, moreover, I sought out evidence for myself of the evidence of the Slavic origin of Rurik.
                And then, I do not remember what has already triggered, but somehow it happened at once that I was
                a) all the same who was Rurik by nationality.
                b) it is clear that the Scandinavians appeared on the territory of modern Russia, if not simultaneously with the Slavs, then not long after and, in any case, long before Rurik.
                c) it is clear that the old Russian state began to be built not only by the Slavs, but also by all the peoples who settled on its future territory and excluded Scandinavians from this list is fundamentally wrong.
                It has come to me, among other things, that if you look at how the Russian princes communicated with the Scandinavians, it becomes quite obvious that only relatives could communicate in this way — marry each other, flee each other in case of failures at home, help with money and people in case of need ... Somehow all this happened in a very kindred manner, starting already, at least with Vladimir Svyatoslavich, and maybe even earlier.
                When the ideological blizzard finally disappeared in me and only the cold curiosity of the researcher remained, I was able to see the whole picture, “from a bird's eye view,” at that moment it became obvious to me that objective data most likely testify to Rurik’s Norman origin, but in fact, it is completely unimportant, as well as the origin of the word "Rus" and many other issues of a smaller scale, for example, the origin of Olga or Malushi.
                You can call me a Normanist for this, a Russophobe, but that’s why neither me nor Ryurik, who has died long ago, will feel either hot or cold and our history will definitely not change, that part of it that has already happened. Maybe someday we will find out exactly who Rurik was. Maybe it will be soon. Someone will introduce new documents, artifacts, develop and test new types of research ... But for now there is no, I see that objective data and chronicle sources indicate, rather, the Scandinavian origin of our princes. smile
                And it is absolutely in vain in the heat of this unnecessary controversy to sully the honor of the Swedish princess Ingigerdy, the Russian princess, wife, mother and grandmother of the rulers of our state. stop
                1. Cat
                  +2
                  2 August 2018 22: 40
                  Michael, will I surprise you? But the value of your commentary in seeking the truth, I put above the "sugary-sweet" articles of respected Valery.
                  It is necessary to defend one’s idea and opinion, but pulling out “fragments” and “distorting facts” from sources is at least not objective. The worst thing, instead of a balanced and correct investigation. We got a bunch of one-sided facts, and if the texture was not enough, the author simply emotionally imposed his point of view.
                  Yours!
  9. +1
    2 August 2018 10: 01
    he was captured at sea by Estonian pirates (whom Snorri Sturlson out of habit calls Viking).
    Valery, the Viking is not a nationality, but a profession! In fact, all the peoples of the Baltic states were noted in the ranks of the Vikings - except for the Estonians, in the sagas are mentioned the Vikings-Curonian, Vikings-Wends, etc.: "... Hakon Konung ... killed the Vikings, where he only found them, both Danes and Wends"
    1. VLR
      +1
      2 August 2018 10: 08
      No - the Scandinavians are called the Vikings - so that there is no confusion. We do not call the pirates of England (for example) of those years (and they were) Vikings.
      1. +3
        2 August 2018 10: 57
        Quote: VlR
        We do not call the pirates of England (for example) those years (and they were) Vikings.

        I will not say about the pirates of England, but the Irish pirates actively cooperated with the Vikings - and why can not they be called Vikings? I think it’s fair to call all the pirates of the northern seas that way, but of a strictly defined era (793-1066) - for example, the “Vitalier’s brothers” are clearly not Vikings.
        1. VLR
          0
          2 August 2018 11: 23
          No way. "Vikings" are assigned to the Scandinavians. And not only by the national principle - a special unique organization of the Viking squads, which is not found anywhere else.
          By the way, here in Ireland - someone came up with the folklore there called sagas, although there is nothing in common with the Scandinavian sagas even close.
          1. +4
            2 August 2018 14: 16
            "Viking" - the Scandinavian self-name of the sea robber. Scandinavians know better whether it is possible to call the Viking Mudin Esta. Once called - it means you can. smile
            "Varyag" - a member of the military detachment, a retainer, probably a broader concept. Those. All Vikings are Vikings, but not all Vikings are Vikings.
            Something like that, I guess. smile
          2. 0
            2 August 2018 18: 29
            All medieval chroniclers call Scandinavian natives who attacked the Atlantic and Mediterranean coast of Europe Normans. Vikings appear only in relation to the Baltic coast of Europe. In chronicles and sagas, the Scandinavians as well as the Slavs and the Balts are included in the composition of the Vikings.

            HELMOLD. SLAVIC CHRONICLE
            For Denmark for the most part consists of islands that are surrounded on all sides by the sea washing them, so it is not easy for the Danes to protect themselves from the attacks of sea robbers, because there are many capes that are very convenient for Slavs to establish shelters for themselves. Leaving from here secretly, they attack the careless from their ambushes, for the Slavs are very skilled in arranging secret attacks. Therefore, until recently, this robber custom was so widespread among them that, completely neglecting the benefits of agriculture, they turned their hands always ready for battle to sea sorties, their only hope, and putting all their wealth in ships. . They do not set off attacks by the Danes; on the contrary, they even consider it a pleasure for them to engage in hand-to-hand combat.

            SNORRY STURLUSON. CIRCLE OF THE EARTH
            Then Hakon konung sailed east along the coast of Skane [southern Sweden] and killed the Vikings, where he only found them, both Danes and Wends.

            Leading Russian historian - medievalist Lydia Grot:
            “The Vikings (this word, as well as the word pirates, is a foreign borrowing in Scandinavian languages, but probably of a more archaic origin), it seems, were ordinary ordinary pirates who, at the end of the first millennium, hunted, including in the Baltic Sea. According to sources (from the chronicle of Adam of Bremen or from the “Acts of the Danes” by Saxon Grammatik), the Baltic pirates, sometimes referred to under the name of the Vikings, operated in the Baltic Sea, starting from its western end, where there were many islands and where it was convenient to hide , and along the southern Baltic coast or the Vendian coast, where there were many rich ports and, accordingly, there was something to rob.
            But they also rose to the northern shores of the Baltic Sea, attacking, in particular, the land of svei. The easternmost border of the Baltic pirates was, of course, the eastern coast of the Baltic Sea. Did Saxon Grammar not know about it! Moreover, according to experts, his chronicle was permeated by the spirit of a chivalrous novel, where the main role was played, of course, given, but among his heroes were Vendians, Curonian, Zemgale, and Estia, mentioned by participants in pirate teams or victims of pirates.
            The archaeological materials of Eastern Europe represent in their origin a gigantic geographical area. For example, in the Urals, objects of Black Sea, Middle East, Central Asian origin, monuments from the ancient Greek and Sarmatian world, Egyptian faience, shells from the coasts of the Pacific and Indian oceans, Middle Eastern brooches, Byzantine and Iranian silver, weapons and metal from the North Caucasus, etc. were found [But ] it doesn’t occur to anyone to argue that these goods were followed in the Urals by the masses of Greek or Egyptian colonists, although it is natural to assume that the population of shopping centers is everywhere and always characterized by ethnic diversity. The immigrants from Khorezm or Sasanian Iran are not suspected of the fact that, traveling with trade caravans in the Urals, they built trade and craft settlements and military camps along eastern trade routes, as is attributed by Normanists to the Scandinavian peninsula countries in IX – X centuries during their legendary campaigns in Eastern Europe. ”

            Those. “Vikings” is the Slavic word “Varangians”, once again misinterpreted by stupid Scandinavian skalds.
            1. +1
              2 August 2018 19: 49
              Quote: Operator
              Those. “Vikings” is the Slavic word “Varangians”, once again misinterpreted by stupid Scandinavian skalds.

              I agree with almost everything that you wrote (except for Lydia Grotto, of course), and you draw a conclusion from the series "Uncle in Kiev". sad
              Well, tell me, on what basis do you identify the concepts "Varyag" and "Viking"? I categorically agree that these concepts determine the occupation, not nationality, but why should one be a distortion of the other? Varyag - druzhinnik, viking - robber, what is wrong?
              And about Lydia Grotto - do not believe that:
              1. Lydia Grotto is a leading Russian medievalist. She is one of the brightest representatives of folk history, nothing more. Not as odious as Chudinov or Fomenko, but not far away from them, especially from the latter.
              2. "Objects found in the Urals ..." and hereinafter. Links to research: who discovered, date of discovery, nomenclature of the found, description, places of discovery, number of objects, archaeological layers - where is all this? Not. After all, no? Why do you believe?
              You brought a lengthy quotation from some of her articles or books. Throw me the source of the article, if not difficult, I will look for it, maybe somewhere she left the links?
              1. 0
                2 August 2018 20: 00
                The fact that the Scandinavian “Viking” is a distorted Slavic “Varangian” is purely specifically my IMHO (however, confirmed by the Grotto in part borrowed by the Scandinavians on the side).

                You will transfer the arrows on Lydia, I will unscrew your head am

                Are you completely dark with regard to Internet searches: right-click the selected text fragment, paste in the search bar of the browser and voila - get a web link to the Internet article you are looking for, comment, etc.
                If you don’t find the sources at the end of the online article (and even less comment), register on the Pereformat.ru site and ask direct questions to the biochemist Klesov, the geneticist Rozhansky and the historian Grot.
                1. +2
                  3 August 2018 00: 07
                  Quote: Operator
                  Are you completely dark regarding Internet search?

                  Such a search, light, you, our, will give a bunch of links with copy-paste and other snowstorm. I wanted to save some time. Is it hard for you? Get along.
                  Quote: Operator
                  register on the website Pereformat.ru

                  You offer me another "New Chronology" to register. Yes, I’m just ashamed if my child finds out.
                  Quote: Operator
                  You will transfer the arrows on Lydia, I will unscrew your head

                  Normal entry ... I was already scared and trembling. And so that you understand it better for yourself, I will add that I consider your Lydia to be a charlatan from science, using her education and academic background, received in Soviet times, to fool various gullible neophytes for the purpose of making a profit. This may be due to one of two reasons: either her abilities did not allow her to make a decent academic career (she turned out to be dull), any of her material ambitions exceeded the salary of an honest scientist and had to be engaged in charlatanry. I bow to the second option.
              2. +1
                2 August 2018 22: 12
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                ... She is one of the brightest representatives of folk history, nothing more. Not as odious as Chudinov or Fomenko, but not very far from them, especially from the last

                Based on what such conclusions? I read many of her materials - everything is sober, balanced and without revolutionary throwings. No Fomenko smells there.
                1. +1
                  2 August 2018 23: 52
                  quote = Flavius] On the basis of what such conclusions? [/ quote]
                  I read a couple of articles. I saw solid speculation, references only to the same unrecognized geniuses like herself (from one party), there are no references to specific studies, it is impossible to check the data on the findings, their number, context. Well and, besides, there were caustic remarks in her address in various publications, in fact, they led me to her work. It seems that another "leading Russian historian-medievalist" Zadornov used it in his films.
                  1. +2
                    3 August 2018 08: 08
                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    I read a couple of articles. I saw continuous speculation, links only to the same unrecognized geniuses as she herself (from one party),

                    Zadornov is an anointed pea jester. And Grotto, if my memory serves me right, is a candidate of historical sciences. As Vyacheslav Olegovich says - she is a specialist laughing
                    And this specialist has a lot of historical publications, which again likes to emphasize Vyacheslav Olegovich.
                    And you are not a specialist and you probably have no publications. Therefore, as Vyacheslav Olegovich says - endure lol
                    1. 0
                      3 August 2018 10: 19
                      I argue now not with Grotto, but with you. Therefore - endure. laughing
                      1. +1
                        3 August 2018 10: 46
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        I argue now not with Grotto, but with you. Therefore - endure.

                        You can tolerate from specialists, but you are not a specialist.
                2. -1
                  3 August 2018 03: 30
                  Quote: Flavius
                  Based on what such conclusions?

                  Elementary envy - Lydia Grot works in Sweden in direct contact with world scientific bodies on the history of Scandinavia, and the Master of Trilobite is found in no one knows where.
  10. +2
    2 August 2018 10: 06
    Magnus was the son of a slave, but in those years when every self-respecting king had a bunch of wives and concubines, this circumstance did not serve as a big obstacle to the throne.
    This was the norm of life only among the Scandinavians and their descendants (such as William the Conqueror) - this rarely happened in the rest of Europe. Although it happened - take the same Enrique the Good. The main thing here is quality PR: official version of King Pedro Cruel on the throne was succeeded by his half-brother Enrique Kind. Unofficially - King Pedro Fair on the throne was succeeded by his half-brother Enrique Fratricide.
  11. 0
    2 August 2018 13: 30
    He entered the history of Norway with the nickname "Good", but why and on what basis this very belligerent and no less than the rest cruel king got it, remains unknown to this day.
    And when Tennyson’s “My good the sword shatters shields ... "- what kindness are we talking about? wink Translation problem: Gode is both “good” and “good”, and in relation to king the epithet “good” meant primarily “successful” - or, as Putin said about Stalin, “effective manager”
  12. +1
    2 August 2018 16: 47
    Varyago-Russ is power good
  13. +1
    2 August 2018 18: 47
    Quote: Weyland
    An amusing conflict - given the fact that both Olav, and Ingigerda (St. Anna Novgorodskaya), and Yaroslav the Wise are now counted as saints

    Igor Rozhansky:
    It is very likely that here we see the manifestation of the matrilateral system of kinship, about which L.P. Grotto. It was ubiquitous in Northern Europe, and its main principle was that in the absence of sons from a representative of the upper (and not only?) Estate, inheritance passed, first of all, to an uncle on the maternal side (“woo” in Old Russian) , which generally played a very important role in the system of Old Russian power relations. Further, the clan was conducted already according to his descendants, but this could not be reflected in oral traditions, since such a transition was not perceived as something out of the ordinary, besides, he could be retouched externally through the formal adoption of a cousin or nephew on the mother's side. For example, this is exactly the way 900 years before Rurik, the plebeians Gai Octavius ​​became the legal heir to his mother’s grandmother, patrician Guy Julius Caesar, who did not have sons.
    It is possible that the 2 parallel lines of the Rurikovich (South Baltic and West Slavic) that date back to the same time were connected by just such a degree of kinship, and the stories about unfaithful wives and loving Swedish or Polish princes here than. Not because “Caesar’s wife is beyond suspicion,” but simply those people were not born when both branches were already gaining strength.
    What is the main conclusion that can now be drawn from this analysis? The same as in the title of the topic: None of the modern descendants of the entire ancient family of the Rurikovich has anything to do with the Scandinavians who lived in the middle of the 9th century. Whether their ancestor (s) was an Eastern Slav, a Western Slav, or a Balt is a separate issue that needs to be addressed with other data.

    Lydia Grotto:
    Dear Igor Lvovich! Touched by your attention to the matrilateral tradition. Maybe with your light hand, Russian historians will pay attention to it. So far, the matrilateralism for this category of scientists and women workers is outside the staff list.

    PS In other words, current Russian historians are teeming with former teachers of the history of the CPSU, lovers of Hollywood films and fans of funny pictures from "British scientists" who can’t beat a tooth in the subject for which the state pays them money.
  14. 0
    2 August 2018 21: 38
    Quote: Operator
    PS In other words, current Russian historians are teeming with former teachers of the history of the CPSU, lovers of Hollywood films and fans of funny pictures from "British scientists" who can’t beat a tooth in the subject for which the state pays them money.
    Reply Quote Complaint Operator

    This is she just out of envy. There is no hectare of academic cottage, although he lives in Sweden. And so the question is paid to her as much as by British scientists for a sheet of text or less, as ours. If the latter, then it is clear that offensive. So she blasphemes her colleagues. I say, not with them, I am higher, pure as the first day of creation! But she graduated from a Soviet university and if in the 81, it means that the history of the CPSU also responded to Komsomol meetings, but what about ...
    1. 0
      2 August 2018 21: 58
      You quote my text - after the postscript PS

      But under the teachers of the history of the CPSU (which there are no former) and at the same time fans of the pictures of “British scientists” you yourself know who I had in mind laughing
      1. +1
        3 August 2018 07: 20
        And now I have a question for you: here you have written a history book ... You need illustrations. And - what are your actions. I am interested to know what you will do, what you will do, what conditions you will set for the artist?
        1. 0
          3 August 2018 13: 36
          Elementary - I’ll download from the Internet and if the artist deviates from the historical truth, I will indicate this in my text without fail.
  15. 0
    2 August 2018 22: 31
    After all, Shpakovsky had already asked a question why in Europe there was a prayer "Lord save us from the plague of the devil and the Normans !!!" And in Russia even close is not like that? Why is it that the Vikings always served the princes and not vice versa !!!
    1. +3
      2 August 2018 23: 41
      Quote: burigaz2010
      After all, I had already asked Shpakovsky a question, why in Europe there was a prayer "Lord, save us from the plague of the devil and the Normans !!!" And in Russia, even close there is no such?

      Oh, our sins are grave ...
      Yes, because the Vikings came to Europe to rob, and we lived there. There was no one to rob, few people, and they did not live in poverty. And the trade routes were, they had to be controlled, and they settled next to the Slav settlements for them or directly in them.
      1. +1
        3 August 2018 08: 30
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        Yes, because the Vikings came to Europe to rob, and with us they lived

        You are probably an adult, and you hang such pink snot. It’s only in the cartoon about Winnie the Pooh that the bear is friends with a pig. In real life, nowhere and never have foreign peoples of other languages ​​and religions in the world did not live. They slaughtered to death until some took over the others. Especially if one of the parties is extremely aggressive - and the Scandinavians, as you know, have never been noticed in peace.
        Therefore, this mantra that "Russia is a unique multinational country and in it the Finns, Slavs and Scandinavians merged in a single rush for the good of the Motherland" looks as blissful as the "proletarians of all countries unite" or "peace - peace."
        1. +1
          3 August 2018 10: 08
          Quote: Flavius
          In real life, nowhere and never foreign, foreign-speaking and heterodox nations did not live in the world.

          You need to learn the basics of history. Look at any, I emphasize, any empire, starting with the oldest and most modern, and you will see, if you are able to see anything at all, that very peaceful coexistence of non-Orthodox, foreign-speaking peoples, which you deny.
          As for the Scandinavians in the territory of modern Russia, then try to imagine what it was like at that time. Forests, swamps, rivers. It is cold, in order to grow something you need a lot, and the harvest is poor, on average, every three years - crop failure and hunger. As a result - the population density is small, from one village to another, is the day's journey. Lots of money here? And along the rivers go the caravans of merchants, surrounded by rapids, pioneering through watersheds. One boat with a commodity is worth more than a whole village, or even an entire city. And in order to control these rivers, you need to set up your towns, fortified points and maintain permanent garrisons in them - so that the merchants with the collection will not be sent and in order to drive out the rival competitors if anything happens. And to keep such garrisons in hostile territory is a dull affair, for they can at any moment, for example in winter, get together and cut out the garrison. Therefore, local looting is not worth it, it is better to make friends and agree - to buy bread there, to buy meat.
          I came to Europe - there is one village in direct line of sight from another, in both grapes it grows, and between the villages there is a stone monastery with fat monks who can only sing, but silver and gold tzatskis wear through one. They rob and easy and profitable. During the day you can spud the monastery and three or four villages. And we first come across the settlement behind the walls, put a couple of people in the assault, and the brew - a pair of wolf hides, glass beads, a rye barrel and dried fish.
          In short, what I chew on here as a child. If you still do not understand what economics is and how it influences politics and dictates behavioral patterns to participants in political processes, at least listen to what they say to you, get crazy. Better yet, instead of reading the Grotto, Klesov and other anti-scientific nonsense, they would have honored Kirpichnikov, Ioannina, Rybakov for the fundamental knowledge and Gorsky, Pchelov, Danilevsky to keep abreast of the achievements of modern historical science.
          1. +1
            3 August 2018 10: 25
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Look at any, I emphasize, any empire, from the oldest to the modern ones, and you will see, if at all capable of seeing something, then the most peaceful coexistence of non-faith, foreign-speaking peoples, which you deny.

            This peaceful coexistence is ensured by the indisputable primacy of any group and the restriction of other groups. Always and without exception.
            For example, in the Russian Empire, it is Orthodoxy and Russians, who allowed everyone else to live. But only after these others were forced into peace and coexistence by force of arms.
            Etc. Here in the Austrian Empire there were problems with the dominance of one group (although there was dominance) and therefore it shook it like a sticky all its life.
            And any society that is composed of diverse communities without any primacy is prone to decomposition and dying. What we see in modern times.
            In general, it is clear that you are a believer (not in a religious sense) and prone to dogma. smile Hence the problems with the perception of reality.
            1. 0
              3 August 2018 12: 43
              Quote: Flavius
              This peaceful coexistence is ensured by the indisputable primacy of any group and the restriction of other groups. Always and without exception.

              From this place in more detail. What were these bands? Try to identify the common features of such ruling groups in different empires, taking for example any, but not less than three for loyalty, better, of course, more.
              And what happens?
              In any empire there is a metropolis - the place where the empire originated. The first dynasty, as a rule, comes from this place. Similarly, the language of the metropolis is the state language of the empire. And ... everything?
              Dynasties change, "aliens" come to power. Examples needed or pick yourself?
              The official language, as a rule, remains unchanged in title, but quickly changes in content - a lot of borrowing, etc.
              On the outskirts, they speak their native languages ​​and confess what they professed before joining the empire, and are headed in the provinces by those who led, that is, representatives of the same national elites. At the emperor's court, there are plenty of "aliens" from the same elites who moved from the provinces. Of these, then new dynasties are formed if necessary.
              Quote: Flavius
              And any society that is composed of diverse communities without any primacy is prone to decomposition and dying. What we see in modern times.

              Stupidity. Nationalist stupidity. Well, the porridge in your head! wassat
              If you carefully and impartially analyze the historical processes, the fate of the great empires, you will clearly understand that it was the attempts of some ethnic group to put themselves in a privileged position relative to the rest, were the first sign of the imminent collapse and collapse of the empire. The empire exists for the time being its elite is international and all nations have in it their representatives defending their interests. Otherwise - separatism and collapse.
              Quote: Flavius
              In general, it is clear that you are a believer (not in a religious sense) and are prone to dogma. Hence the problems with the perception of reality.

              I simply, unlike you, have some knowledge and skills to apply them, inaccessible to you due to the fact that you either didn’t study them at all, or couldn’t learn them due to your personal characteristics. I mean, first of all, fundamental knowledge, although otherwise you have not shown yourself yet. So, picked up the tops of dubious sources, no more.
              1. +1
                3 August 2018 13: 37
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                From this place in more detail

                I am not eager to get involved in a long unpromising debate on a topic that is quite clear to me. In disputes, truth is not born.
                Besides, I need to work.
                Nationalist stupidity

                Nationalism is not stupidity, but eternal value, like family relationships. On these things are societies and states.
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                I simply, unlike you, possess some knowledge and skills of their application that are inaccessible to you due to the fact that you either did not study them at all or could not learn them due to personal characteristics. I mean, first of all, fundamental knowledge, although in the rest you haven’t shown yourself yet

                How do you know - maybe I'm a candidate or even a doctor? wink
                A person who makes categorical statements in cases where he does not have any serious grounds for this (this also applies to the Norman theory) is an immature and not fully formed person.
                With what I congratulate you laughing
                1. 0
                  3 August 2018 14: 11
                  Quote: Flavius
                  A person who makes categorical statements in cases where he has no serious reason to do so.

                  In this case, sufficient reason are your messages, unfortunately. Perhaps you are a candidate and a doctor, and even an academician, like Chudinov, and you just roll Vanka here. In this case, you managed to deceive me, although I do not understand why you could need this. laughing
                  However, if I am mistaken, you can always convince me of this with your thoughtful utterances, erudition, in-depth analysis of the problems discussed, etc. I am one of those people who can relatively easily change their opinion about something or about someone, if it is reasonably reasoned. Opinions for this purpose also exist in order to be corrected, this is their main difference from beliefs.
                  Be of good cheer!
                  In the meantime, for me you are generally a stupid person, in whose head there is a certain amount of unsystematic historical knowledge, and the skills to apply the scientific method of cognition are completely lacking.
        2. 0
          3 August 2018 12: 12
          Quote: Flavius
          In real life, nowhere and never foreign, foreign-speaking and heterodox nations did not live in the world.

          google - "Chernyakhov culture" - Goths, Slavs and Alans. By the way, the Goths with the Alans then jointly rushed west and grabbed Goto-Alania (now Catalonia) there.
          Quote: Flavius
          They slaughtered to death until some took over the others.

          And then what happened? If there were not very many conquerors, then everything depended on the wisdom of their leadership: the dumb pressed the conquered and eventually got through the horns, and the smart ones immediately organized a “merger of the elites” through marital alliances with local aristocrats - and after a few generations a multinational state arose. Over time, it usually became monolingual, and the language of both winners and losers could lead, and sometimes a mixed language, for example Swahili (moreover, the Swahili people totaled only 1,5 million people, and native speakers 100 times more - 150 million)
          1. +1
            3 August 2018 12: 33
            Quote: Weyland
            google - "Chernyakhov culture" - Goths, Slavs and Alans. By the way, the Goths with the Alans then jointly rushed west and grabbed Goto-Alania (now Catalonia) there.

            I have no doubt that in a short historical moment this is possible, but unpromising. Empires are not created in this way.
            They are created by a monolithic community in racial and religious senses. This is the backbone of the state. While this community has enough intelligence and the potential to hold tight rein, the state is expanding and blooming.
            And as soon as the empire starts talking about the equality of the hedgehog and the rhino, freedom of conscience, etc., the empire clicks its flippers and dies.
            The ancient Romans said something like this: "A state can exist as long as it is governed by the same principles that were used at its foundation."
            Quote: Weyland
            And then what happened?

            Then some force others to live according to their own laws. Against the fact that you write further I have nothing against.
            1. 0
              3 August 2018 15: 30
              Quote: Flavius
              "A state can exist as long as it is governed by the same principles that were used when it was founded"

              The ancients were quite right.
              Try to study the history of early Rome in more detail - you will see how the Latins, conquering the Italian tribes, immediately included them in their state, gave Roman citizenship and introduced their representatives to the bodies of higher state administration. It was only thanks to such an internal policy that Rome managed to resist the genius of Hannibal - not a single Italic community supported him, did not rebel against Rome, which he counted on. The result is known.
              See also the specifics of the state structure of the early empire, count the emperors' dynasties and pay attention to their (emperors) origin, the names of generals and governors, high dignitaries ... You will not see any signs of nationalism, even distant ones.
              Nationalism is good for small mono-ethnic states like Poland or understate states like the modern Baltic republics. For such states as ours or as China, the USA nationalism is a quick and very painful death. It must be planted in enemies and suppressed in oneself by all means.
              The suppression of one people by another, even if it is more numerous and more developed, causes a natural opposition and, as a result, separatism and disintegration. Neighbors need to pull up to their level, and not equal with the baseboard, proclaiming itself a descendant of "white gods" or someone like that, such as the Aryans or anyone else.
              I am for that nationalism, which implies knowledge of one’s own history, language, culture and customs, propaganda and development of one’s own values ​​by one’s own example of a happy and rich life, while recognizing the right of every nation to the same, incorporating the good that is them and passing them yours.
              but this is probably internationalism ... smile
              1. +2
                3 August 2018 16: 00
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Try to study the history of early Rome in more detail - you will see how the Latins, conquering the Italian tribes, immediately included them in their state,

                Immediately? smile You would have taken it yourself learned something.
                Have you heard about the Allied wars? Hardly. They were led to grant civil rights to the Italian allies in the first century BC.
                Hannibal has already rotted in the ground 10 times, and they were still being waged.
                So Rome was in no hurry - and did the right thing. As soon as he began to actively distribute citizenship - this was the beginning of a long and painful end.
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Nationalism is good for small mono-ethnic states like Poland or understate states like the modern Baltic republics. For such states as ours or as China, the USA nationalism is a quick and very painful death. It must be planted in enemies and suppressed in oneself by all means.

                Nationalism is good for the state if it is professed by the people who founded this state. Any other nationalism in the state should be harshly suppressed. There are state-forming peoples and all the rest, which are important to eat well, sleep sweetly and provide for their family. And when the representatives of the latter begin to creep into power, the decomposition of the state begins.
                That is why in the Republic of Ingushetia, the Russian (German) governors ruled the national suburbs.
            2. 0
              3 August 2018 15: 58
              Quote: Flavius
              And as soon as the empire starts talking about the equality of the hedgehog and the rhino, freedom of conscience, etc., the empire clicks its flippers and dies.

              Nobody talks about equality - but the “social elevator” in empires worked for different nationalities! In Assyria, both the Hitt (“chief of the chiefs” Hulli) and the Jew (“chief butler”) Ahiakar could be ministers; the Incas had the concept of “Inca by privilege” (a foreigner who received the rights of an indigenous Inca for his services). Well, the famous “Roman citizenship” could be obtained by any barbarian who had served in the Legion for 25 years.
              1. +1
                3 August 2018 16: 52
                Quote: Weyland
                Nobody talks about equality - but the “social elevator” in empires worked for different nationalities!

                I don’t argue - I worked. Is it another matter to the advantage of the state? I think no. Until the state-forming core could digest new candidates and impose their values ​​on them, everything was smooth. But constantly, this could not continue and the inevitable erosion of the elite began - racial and religious. The state began to reborn, to lose the reason for its existence, and - the inevitable end.
                So it was with the Arabs, Mongols, Romans, modern Europe .. yes I think almost everywhere.
  16. +1
    3 August 2018 03: 12
    Quote: VlR
    Because there is no Slavic name Volga

    Yes, yes, yes - and the epic "Volga Svyatoslavovich and Mikula Selyanovich", essno, made in the cellars of Lubyanka by order of the coerced Stalin laughing
    1. VLR
      +2
      3 August 2018 06: 02
      Russian epics recorded in the XIX century in the Russian north. One can only guess what name the hero had in the XII century. Maybe it was Helgi. But, more likely, in general is different, and Volga is “Magus”. By the way, he is not Svyatoslavich, but Vseslavich. And academician Rybakov believed that the prototype of the hero of this epic was Vseslav of Polotsk (werewolf prince and sorcerer) - Vseslav the sorcerer was in the original version.
      1. +1
        3 August 2018 07: 23
        Valery, you would give easier arguments. And after all, not all such subtleties know. Hardly so ...
      2. +1
        3 August 2018 07: 40
        Let the Magus be. This word, as you know, is not Scandinavian. Alder root, olg, in stock. Oleg, as we know, Prophetic was. Direct connection. You can draw conclusions, but you, of course, will not make them smile
        1. +1
          3 August 2018 10: 14
          Quote: Flavius
          Root olh olg

          From Klesova to Fomenko? Do not take away the bread from Bar1, this is his diocese. laughing
          Remember, every phonetic transition needs to be proven. If you have "olkh" goes into "olg", then it goes into ALL such cases in the language. Alder (tree) should be "Olga", for example. It is not so easy to change the letters in words. This is newer chronicle at its worst.
          1. +1
            3 August 2018 10: 35
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Remember, every phonetic transition needs to be proved.

            That's for sure, but I'm unfortunately not a linguist. As you suppose. What I expressed is my personal guess. As for the transition of "g" to "x" and vice versa - this you can observe everywhere in the south of Russia and Ukraine.
            Cronyism has nothing to do with it - there is the name Volga, there is the Volga River. Direct unambiguous analogy.
            And do not weave anything about Helga, the Magi and other crap. But you don’t go directly.
        2. VLR
          +1
          3 August 2018 10: 15
          It has long been all the conclusions made. The first Helga is Odin's favorite hero, Sigurd's brother (who killed the dragon and bathed in his blood), beloved Sigrun, Vildyria Hild, that is, the battle that died of grief after his death. The name of Helga has become a household name and has come to mean "the prophetic leader", "The leader led by spirits." Many of the heroes and leaders known as Helgi, in fact, bore a different name. Helgi is their title. An example is the one who is known in Russian chronicles as Igor, son of Rurik. In fact, he Helgi Ingvar - Oleg Junior. What he had the real name is unknown. And Oleg the Wise Oleg was named Oleg twice: in Ancient Russia, the title Helga was transferred to his language, literally, it turned out - Oleg the Prophet, Helgi Helgi. By the way, will you not deny that the Prophetic Oleg is Norman? No one has ever (never) doubted this, not even anti-Normanists. About Rurik argue until hoarseness, about Oleg - no, everyone recognized him Scandinavian. Magus, magician - also from Helgi.
          1. +1
            3 August 2018 10: 44
            Quote: VlR
            By the way, you will not deny that Prophetic Oleg is a Norman?

            I have no idea who he is - in particular, and Russ - in general. And I believe that the person who calls Rurik / Oleg - Slav or Norman takes on too much and is driven by purely religious motives, since there is no solid ground for unambiguous statements.
            Quote: VlR
            Magus, the wizard - also from Helga.

            Just don’t need to hang on my ears right now that the word magus is a loan from Gothic or Swedish smile
            Give you free rein and you will call the whole Russian language borrowing.
            Magus:
            Comes from praslav. from cat. among other things occurred: dr. Valhv, St. glory. vlahvv (μςγοр; Supr.), Russian. magus, bulg. vlahva m. “Wizard”, Slovenian. volhva, volhvica "fortuneteller." From other Russian. borrowing. Finnish velho "magus", est. võlu "witch".

            It is possible that Prophetic is just a tracing-paper named after Oleg. If we consider the option that Oleg from the magician went.
      3. +1
        3 August 2018 13: 43
        Quote: VlR
        Volga is a "magus"

        Yes, even the Volga - absolutely parallel to the original Slavic origin of the name Olga / Oleg.

        The departure of the consonant at the beginning of the names absolutely coincides with the standards of word formation in languages ​​based on Sanskrit (the notorious "Indo-European language"): Henry-Henry, etc.
        1. +1
          3 August 2018 16: 03
          Quote: Operator
          The departure of the consonant at the beginning of the names absolutely coincides with the word formation standards in languages ​​based on Sanskrit

          But the opposite is also true - the addition of a consonant in front of a vowel (the so-called prosthesis "): axis - eight, sharp - oriental (Ukrainian." Gostry "), street - Ukrainian. Vulytsya
      4. 0
        3 August 2018 16: 00
        Quote: VlR
        Svyatoslavich, and Vseslavich.

        Volga Svyatoslavich - this is Oleg Drevlyansky, who died in 977 during a disassembly with his brother Yaropolk
        1. VLR
          +1
          3 August 2018 17: 06
          As a prototype of a werewolf warrior and a wizard of princes, only Vseslav of Polotsk is suitable.
  17. +1
    3 August 2018 07: 25
    Quote: Operator
    with world scientific luminaries

    But there are no British scientists among them? World luminaries in Sweden, who is this?
    1. 0
      3 August 2018 13: 55
      Read Grotto's articles: there all Swedish mediaevalists - specialists in the history of Scandinavia are named and among them there are no Britons by definition (suddenly).
  18. VLR
    0
    3 August 2018 14: 03
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Quote: burigaz2010
    After all, I had already asked Shpakovsky a question, why in Europe there was a prayer "Lord, save us from the plague of the devil and the Normans !!!" And in Russia, even close there is no such?

    ...
    Yes, because the Vikings came to Europe to rob, and we lived there.


    I will clarify a bit: they were robbing while there was a base for organizing Viking trips - Aldeygyuborg. After the annexation of this area to the Novgorod possessions, the path to the Vikings to Russia was closed. You will not assemble a band for robbery on the spot, and you will not come in unnoticed with a ready-made squad. And Olav the Holy, who robbed all of Western Europe, could stop at Aldeygyuborg to use it as a base for raids on the eastern coast of the Baltic, could only with the permission of Prince Yaroslav of Novgorod - for a share of the spoils, which he then sold all winter in Novgorod, preparing for the throw to Norway (therefore, after the expulsion from Norway, Olav went to Russia not at random, but to his long-time partner and acquaintance). And since it was not only the descendants of kings who wanted to make money, it was not the Vikings who came to Russia, but the Varangians: to fight for pay, and not to rob. A similar situation is with the Crimean Khanate. While there was an independent khanate - raids one after another. They joined it to Russia - everything, the great Tatar happiness ended.
    1. 0
      3 August 2018 15: 47
      Quote: VlR
      I will clarify a bit: they were robbing while there was a base for organizing Viking trips - Aldeygyuborg.

      There was nothing to rob and nothing for. One boat with a commodity that came "from the Persians" cost more than several villages. With the arrival of the Slavs in Priilmenye and Priladozhie from the south, merchants appeared behind them from the south, "pierced" the passages into the Baltic Sea and began - Arab silver flowed to Europe, colonization of trade routes began. It was more profitable to cooperate than to conflict. Yes, and the people we were still biting at the time, accustomed to rely only on themselves, and not on the prince or king, as in Europe.
      1. VLR
        0
        5 August 2018 09: 08
        Newcomers as a target for their raids on Russia were primarily interested in Novgorod as well. In Novgorod, there was always something to take, and he was very vulnerable - to swim across Lake Ladoga and to plunder in bulk and robbing in bulk, until the townspeople came to their senses. But, after the Normans joined the Novgorod possessions of the Priladozhsky region, the strategic base was lost and the surprise factor was lost. And to creep into Novgorod, prepared for an attack, whose professional squad, reinforced by local merchants' detachments (the merchants did not live for a long time without the armed forces on the rooks) could itself want anyone to attack, even among the Normans there were no willing people. Therefore, starting with Vladimir, there are no Viking thieves, only Vikings-mercenaries.
        1. +1
          6 August 2018 09: 35
          Quote: VlR
          Newcomers as a target for their raids on Russia were primarily interested in Novgorod as well.

          The Normans appeared, settled and settled in those places long before the foundation of Novgorod.
          1. VLR
            0
            6 August 2018 16: 58
            I do not argue, but Novgorod and Aldeygyuborg were competing cities. And it was not about nationality, but about controlling the trade route. This war ended with the victory of Novgorod. Aldeygyuborg, by virtue of its geographic position, had to rely on the alien Scandinavians, who used it as a base for organizing trade expeditions and military expeditions. After the victory, Novgorod began solely controlling the way from Ladoga to the south and east, now the merchants — the Scandinavians and the Hanseatic — had to ask the Novgorodians permission to pass and pay customs duties, or sell their goods in Novgorod at a discount, and buy the necessary goods with a surcharge. And the “no-man’s” squads now generally had no chance of breaking further into Russia: this coast of Europe was open to the Vikings — it was completely impossible to control it. And in Russia, the Baltic rested on the Neva, Ladoga and Novgorod. Or - Pskov, who also bit and did not want to be a thoroughfare yard. But princes needed soldiers for almost constant wars, and Normans needed money. Thus, a new page was opened in relations between Russia and Scandinavia - a unique cooperation in the military sphere, which was not in Western Europe.
  19. 0
    5 August 2018 10: 43
    Quote: VlR
    Aldeygyuborg

    A trading village among swamps - none of the local Slavs in FIG was needed. Moreover, this village, after the creation of the state Ruska Zemlya, became a part of it, since it is known that Ingigerda asked her husband Yaroslav the Wise to transfer Aldeigyuborg to feed a Swedish relative.
  20. -1
    10 October 2018 10: 09
    Well, what, interesting fantasy.
    A little simpler than the Fellowship of the Ring, but it is quite suitable. Read a dull, rainy autumn evening, with a glass of mulled wine in hand.
    As for me - everything is too beautiful in these sagas, legends, legends.
    A hired gang of thugs agrees to wait. Wait a month! A kilogram of silver for each. Then, a couple of the leaders of these scumbags throw their own "dashing" accomplices. And those, like some outsider suckers, losers, have no choice but to move further from their rogue bosses-employers. But what about the times of "military democracy"? After all, the Norman squad is not a regular army, after all. This is a gang of bandit elements hired for a CLEARLY SPECIFIED SHARE in the loot! We see beautiful-minded simpletons who succumbed to the promises of someone unknown, because Vladimir's rights to reign were fake, in general.
    Estonian pirates .... is this a new word in history? Yes, in addition, such pirates that do not hesitate, capture, kill and enslave representatives of a noble family among the same Scandinavians. And then, they feel so at ease in Novgorod that they get hit on the head with a hatchet from a boy who ran away from them. Ah yes pirates, ah yes estas, ah yes "dashing people."
    Nevertheless, I emphasize once again - it reads! Even read with pleasure.
    As an example of the inexhaustible imagination of the author, allegedly 10-12 centuries.
    ...
    Why such a comment?
    Because I am just finishing reading the book by Uwe Topper "The Great Deception. The Fictional History of Europe".
    Here, some comrades are proceeding with idiosyncrasy to "new chronologies" and the like. So it is worth reading that the Germans themselves write about their own, invented history. And what centuries do they date the beginning real chronology at home in Europe. Brains begin to work very actively.
  21. 0
    26 October 2018 19: 58
    The Tale of the White Bull. Collection of anecdotes. More than a hundred years ago, historians laughed at their illiterate colleagues, "selep" is not a visually impaired !!! According to his contemporaries, the Varangians were a very handsome man, and especially his brocade cloak ...