In the Netherlands, do not exclude the guilt of Kiev for downed "Boeing"

The Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands commented on the collapse of the Malaysian Boeing in the skies over the Donbas in July 2014. After statements by the Minister of Transport of Malaysia that he considers the statements of the Dutch prosecutor’s office about Russia's fault to be unproven, the head of the Dutch Foreign Ministry, Stef Blok, said that the Netherlands did not rule out that ultimately the blame could be placed on the Ukrainian side.

Block made his statement during a hearing in the Netherlands Parliament. In particular, the speech came about the fact that official Kiev violated international norms, not taking care to close the airspace of the country during the hostilities on its territory.

At the same time, Blok noted that for the time being there are no sufficient grounds to assert that Ukraine’s responsibility is obvious.

That is, the Netherlands now has reason to poke a finger at Russia (that's exactly what the Minister of Transport of Malaysia called it yesterday), despite the complete absence of adequate evidence, but there are no grounds yet to argue about the obvious facts of Ukraine’s fault.

The key word here is still “bye”, but because the Netherlands, which has already managed to declare the fault of the Russian Federation, sooner or later will have to answer questions about what actions Ukraine took in that terrible civil aviation day. Ukraine will have to answer as well, which not only did not close the airspace, but also led the plane over the epicenter of the battles, which used air defense systems located in the Zaroschensky area, which then “hid” the Dnepropetrovsk controllers and still has not provided data on their negotiations with crew members MH17.

Comments

[The black]

Hedgehog it is clear that the West does not need reliable results. The Netherlands makes all statements based on political conditions, which once again proves the corruption and deceit of Western politicians ...

[Vard]

However, the ice has broken ... Gentlemen of the jury ... One moment is present ... Recognizing that Poroshenko shot down the Boeing West will make Ukraine an incompetent state ... And it will authorize its partition ... Poland ... Romania ... Hungary. .. stand in line ...

[The black]

Quote: Vard

However, the ice has broken ... Gentlemen of the jury ... There is one point here ... Recognizing that Poroshenko shot down the Boeing West will make Ukraine an incompetent state ...

So far nothing has moved .... It is not a question of accusing Poros of destroying the Boeing - only that Ukraine did not close the airspace in the southeast where the fighting took place .....

[YELLOWSTONE]

But is there any reason not to point to Russia with a finger indicating the source of guilt?
or is it the other way around the Russian Su-25 military plane flew next to a painted Boeing similar to the Ukrainian government plane in which Poroshenko flew up to see how his APU was fighting in the Donbas? after which he fell with holes in the cab almost immediately.

[YELLOWSTONE]

and the question is what does Buki have to do with it, although they could add for fidelity?

[bulvas]

... sooner or later it will be necessary to answer questions about what actions Ukraine took on that terrible day for civil aviation. Ukraine itself will have to answer,, ..... which then “hid” the Dnepropetrovsk dispatchers and still has not provided data on their negotiations with the crew members of MH17.

It seems like a subtle hint of Poroshenko and his generals, like, do not start a war in the Donbas in the near future, we will begin to judge you ...

[Shurik70]

Russia cannot be considered guilty of the destruction of a passenger Boeing that crashed over the Donbass in 2014. This was stated by Minister of Transport of Malaysia Anthony Loke Sue Fook

I am in shock. On May 21st he was appointed minister, on the 30th he had already made such a statement. This is what a newcomer to politics means. In the search for Gul in his name there is not even a single photo

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Black

This is not about accusing Poros of destroying the Boeing - only that Ukraine did not close the airspace in the southeast, where hostilities took place .....

If the pendulum swung in the direction of a possible accusation of urkaine, then it is very likely that somewhere in the bowels of the Euro-mattress kitchen the prosecution of Poroshenko is also ripening, who has exhausted everyone and is an absolutely dead-end figure to bet on which it is unlikely that anyone will risk it. In the process, Petya begins to merge.

[Genych]

Sooner or later

I represent Petro in the zone, how can he endure a week without booze ??

[cost]

with his billions, he will not dry out in the zone

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Rich

with his billions, he will not dry out in the zone

Confiscate. There was a "Yanukovych Foundation," will add the "Poroshenko Fund."

[thrush]

Quote: Vard

However, the ice has broken ... Gentlemen of the jury ... One moment is present ... Recognizing that Poroshenko shot down the Boeing West will make Ukraine an incompetent state ... And it will authorize its partition ... Poland ... Romania ... Hungary. .. stand in line ...

This is a fallback that is getting closer and closer to implementation, but before that there will be an attempt to use force in the Donbas .. maybe even the west is ready for Russia’s answer ..

[siberalt]

It doesn’t matter who shot down the plane (these are just the consequences), but it is important who directed it there and was responsible for the safety of the route. In this case, the end does not justify the means and deliberately causes cancer for the stone.

[rocket757]

Who sent him THERE, changing the flight plan ... actually failed him, it’s interesting and creates a bunch of questions, they can just show / prove who organized it and why. And then specific technical issues, analysis .... in short, on the other hand, no one bothered, just customized to your Wishlist! People then grab it, for the most part. but a serious official laid a bo-o-big mine under all this ... booth! Maybe jerk!

[geniy]

But if a Boeing was shot down by a Ukrainian plane, then the flight route does not matter over or outside the military operations, because a combat aircraft has the ability to attack a passenger airliner in any area. And in fact, the Malaysian Boeing was initially fired at another 100 kilometers before approaching the war zone!

[rocket757]

What plane? If Su 25, this is not a fighter interceptor and must be brought to the target from outside! If a fighter, then identity nuances ... if the place of the fall needed a specific one.
All the same, it is not clear, and again fortunetelling ... we need facts, evidence, records and testimonies of the actors.
In short, the court and the actual proceedings, in which except the prosecutors and the defense attorney participate, and the arbitral party considers the EVIDENCE of one or another point of view!
All to court, but we'll see!

[Sofa expert]

This is how black boxes, dispatchers, and records of negotiations will be provided, then negotiations must be started, otherwise nothing ...

[The black]

Quote: Sofa Expert

This is how black boxes, dispatchers, and records of negotiations will be provided, then negotiations must be started, otherwise nothing.

They will never introduce them .... EVERYONE knows perfectly well who brought down the Boeing. Here the question is not the difficulties of the investigation, but the POLITICAL .... The truth is recognized only in one case - if the West decides to write off the Kiev junta (which will happen sooner or later)

[Sofa expert]

It would be more likely that the end of all these kisses would come to an end ..

[YELLOWSTONE]

it was simply impossible to give them away, especially since the charges immediately went
the experts could reproduce everything from them and on the spot once they were intact, there is no encryption like in the DVRs, only the seals or Malaysia as the owner of the plane could contact Moscow if they were damaged, it would be closer and for safety and then suddenly the British because of their anti-Russian position will not be objective

[nPuBaTuP]

Against the background of all these movements with Skripaly, Babchenkov, etc. I would like to know ..... are the dispatcher comrades still alive and well? Or maybe there are no dispatchers already?

[rotmistr60]

The Netherlands does not exclude the possibility that ultimately the fault can be assigned to the Ukrainian side

Too "played" Dutch "experts" in the guilt of Russia. For four years, pouring from empty to empty, they themselves created a situation as a result of which even in the West the number of those who doubt the objectivity of the investigation is growing. Better late than never.

[zulusuluz]

In the "torn to shreds" economy of Russia, surprisingly stable processes are underway (from the point of view of the West) - the Navy, the destruction of terrorists in Syria ... And all this requires money, and not small. That does not fit into the heads - HOW? Therefore, I do the steps wherever possible, because they are not capable of more. They would have taken and refused collectively gas from Russia ... Everything - both Europe and the USA. But no, the gut is thin.

[Avis-bis]

That is, the Netherlands now has reason to poke a finger at Russia (that's exactly what the Minister of Transport of Malaysia called it yesterday), despite the complete absence of adequate evidence, but there are no grounds yet to argue about the obvious facts of Ukraine’s fault.

Already what began to admit other possibilities, except for the guilt of Russia, is already not bad. Really, what kind of gas began to dissipate over the world?

[alex-cn]

Now the accusations towards Russia will begin to subside ... And then the case will be completely covered up “for its unprovability” They will not justify the outskirts, but they will not blame either. But the wave of stinks has already passed, the deed is actually done!

[Moskovit]

Just from Holland. I asked everyone about the Boeing. The migrants who work there in all sectors, naturally, do not care. Ordinary Dutch people say that the situation is very complicated and there is no truth to be found, they nevertheless believe that there is Russian wine, but Ukrainian wine too. But in principle, society doesn’t care anymore, because there are many other problems and everyone is fed up with this topic and forgotten. They treat Russians well, and if their team got to the World Cup, they would calmly wave to Russia.

[YELLOWSTONE]

interesting and some kind of US fault maybe? there was not a single citizen of this country on the plane, as well as some others
and the small EU countries and Australians with Malaysians in the west are considered 2nd if not 3rd grade
and another Malaysian (by the way, a Muslim country) politician spoke poorly about international financiers, after which MH370 disappeared to begin with

[Metallurg_2]

Putin bought the government of the Netherlands! Tse zrada! Wuxi on the Maidan, lads!

[Sarmat Sanych]

Yomt, the Netherlands are seeing! What else should this be done by the Sumerian brethren, so that the international community finally and irrevocably reaches? Oh wei, what do they allow themselves? But what about European solidarity? At first, Nord Stream-2, then it didn’t work with Babchenka, now is it also responsible for the Boeing? They were ofigel there, can they still force Minsk agreements to comply? What is going on at all? Immediately an old joke comes to mind, "What about us then?" And Malaysia does not believe ... Such a Schaub so many hauls instead of one overpower - it was so painful to the pots for a long time .
PS By the way, according to a source close to the ukRuina’s special services, there should also be a brilliant dramatization of the Ukrainian Armed Forces with Boeing MH17, but something went wrong ....

[Moskovit]

By the way, without jokes, one of the Dutch said that many relatives did not receive any bodies of their dead from them, and this leads to great suspicion.

[YELLOWSTONE]

let the LDNR prosecutor’s office turn on this issue, find like almost everyone
or they will be sanctioned for it

[Parade]

Russia, as the side illegally accused by the West, needs to provide all the evidence for Malaysia, as the injured party, about the guilt of Ukraine .... since Europe apparently doesn’t really need .....

[johnik]

Maybe ours, too, really doesn’t really need it if it takes so long for the lists to appear without giving trump cards?

[GRIGORIY76]

Comments with meaning for example.

[Obolensky]

Well, there will be enough questions for Ukraine and other "interested" countries. To the same Netherlands, and to others. I hope that this issue will still be resolved. Although time has passed enough and most likely this question will be ignored, because this topic has already played its own. Perhaps they will not even look for the guilty. Especially for those who conceived this, it is absolutely not interesting.

[johnik]

Tu - 154, shot down by Ukrainians also hushed up, sometimes remembered as hopelessness. And then Bandera did not hiss much!

[Sarmat Sanych]

Quote: Moskovit

By the way, without jokes, one of the Dutch said that many relatives did not receive any bodies of their dead from them, and this leads to great suspicion.

If no jokes, then I have a long-standing close acquaintance living in Amsterdam, Russian, but after 10 years now she receives Dutch citizenship, an international lawyer. According to her, there, thinking people already in 2016 realized that everything was from Ukraine that was asleep. Her Dutch business partner built a dental clinic before the crisis in Kharkov, so they squeezed it out almost immediately.

[Landscaping]

Come on. The question is when will these be pulled over by kukan? And with all this, there are no options to return to mamma’s mink?

[CAT BAIYUN]

Everything is clear, of course ...
But the article says

Ukraine itself will have to answer

And who exactly will have to answer? Who exactly planned, who exactly decided to give the go-ahead? I'm not talking about the person who directly "clicked on the button." It is clear that behind each action there is a specific person.
And the fact that you have to answer some kind of amorphous formation called "Ukraine" - well, this at least does not reassure.

[rpuropuu]

Stef Blok said that the Netherlands did not exclude the possibility that ultimately the blame could be laid on the Ukrainian side.

But the information background has already been created, in the minds of the townsfolk the “necessary” information was postponed 4 years ago, if there is a refutation of Russia's fault, it is not intelligible in the “small print” The truth is not needed, otherwise they would not be pulled for so long

[Zaurbek]

Some kind of crap began with this affair. Apparently Kiev started to do something wrong. The Malaysians and the Dutch cannot simultaneously declare this. Maybe they push Ukrovermahtt to the offensive ?!

[afrikanez]

It seems that the Netherlands themselves will have to be involved in the inadequate conduct of the case of the downed Boeing and hasty conclusions on it.

[Berkut24]

Once again, picking their nose through the ass. European logic ... what you won’t do to adjust the solution to the problem for the already paid result.

[geniy]

Malaysian Boeing was shot down by Ukrainian military aircraft!
All people are mistaken when they think that this Boeing could be shot down by a missile - it doesn’t matter either Russian or Ukrainian. Because if the radar is working, then it necessarily emits radio waves. And it is immediately easily direction finding. That is, the radiation source of any radio waves is easily direction-finding from several different points, and by applying a crosshair of these bearings on the map, you can easily get the location of the radar. In addition, an anti-aircraft missile flying up to a target aircraft also emits radio waves. And it would be easier than simple to determine what exactly the rocket shot down this Boeing. But neither the Russian nor the Ukrainian side provided evidence that they recorded radiation from the ground-based missile guidance radar and the homing radar of the missile itself. Therefore, no one fired any anti-aircraft missile at this Boeing! Neither Russians nor Ukrainians!
But in fact, the Boeing was shot down by a Ukrainian military aircraft - quietly, without turning on the radar.

[geniy]

Quote: rocket757

What plane? If Su 25, this is not a fighter interceptor and must be brought to the target from outside!

And the fact of the matter is that there was no guidance from the earth at all! Because the pilot of the Ukrainian plane did everything at his own peril and risk. That is, he simply flew up to any passenger airliner he met and examined him for a shot down. And in the end, he decided to bring down the Malaysian Boeing.

[Imobile]

In general, we are to blame for the fact that from the very beginning we did not put pressure on it. But now Putin has voiced about airspace. We are correcting, it is necessary to declare it louder. Worst of all, our journalists atrophied under “stability.” They already have no idea how to ask this uncomfortable question.

[pvv113]

without taking care to close the airspace

What's this? Did the Dutch realize only four years later? It turns out that Estonians are much quicker

[YarSer88]

Obviously, the West is not happy with Poroshenko’s work, so transparent (so far) hints have begun. I don’t know what exactly he did wrong, but the signal is clear. Apparently, because of the desire to throw the IMF, or the inability to drag Russia into the war in the Donbass. But here only guess.

[Kerensky]

Let’s imagine that Russia dragged Buk from Kursk. They got up, turned around, and there was no one to bang - the airspace was closed. In vain ride? What kind of operation is this ?! And by mistake you can’t be blundered — civilian "mistakes" do not fly there ...
Second moment. The adversaries admit that they bought a rocket. Purely for comparison. Who said there was one rocket? This is not a carrot seller in a stall - this is a serious matter.
Well, about the dispatchers have already talked a lot, it makes no sense to repeat.
My opinion:
We must focus on the "purchased rocket" (rockets). If we are not allowed to investigate, then we can trace the tails of this deal ourselves.

[tezey]

Actually in the story with Boeing, namely, who is to blame for the death of innocent people, any court will clearly determine the guilt. I held court hearings related to the loss of life in accidents, I know a little. The severity of guilt always lies with those who are obligated to ensure safety on their duty. In this case, flight safety over its territory. The duty and direct responsibility for the safety of Boeing’s flight over the territory of Ukraine, without a doubt, lies with the authorities of Ukraine and its services. It was the Ukrainian authorities that failed, or did not want to, or specially created the conditions that led to the deaths. The second culprit in the tragedy is the administration of the airline. She could not know that in the area of ​​passage of the highway over the Donbass hostilities are taking place. Including with the use of combat aircraft of Ukraine, which was hit by air defense systems and suffered losses. The third culprit is directly those who carried out the destruction of the Boeing. And here a very interesting story turns out. Nobody is interested in looking for the guilty in the West. It turns out that the investigation lacks incontrovertible evidence that should be based on objective monitoring data and operational intelligence data, technical examinations and testimonies of people who personally saw the incident or who controlled the flight in the affected area of ​​the aircraft. This is a simple axiom for investigating a plane crash. Where is all this. There is nothing objectively proving the involvement of Russia or the Donbass militia in the destruction of the Boeing. Moreover . Russia provided its data on the incident and offered its full cooperation in the investigation. Renouncement. How shoud I understand this. Yes, you just need to understand this. The truth is not needed. The truth hits those who immediately after the death of Boeing appointed Russia as the culprit and those who supported without evidence evidence. That is the point. However, it does not work to blame Russia. There is no evidence and it will not be clear, and what is the Dutch doing here. They won’t do anything. They will pull the rubber, they will wash the matter to oblivion.

[Alex Justice]

And if shot down from a German machine gun, Germany is to blame?
Victims should demand compensation only from Ukraine. She alone is to blame for the deaths of civilians by sending a plane to the war zone, where many planes were shot down before that.

[NF68]

They believe that Russia is to blame or do not believe, but the Dutch still threw a portion of the known substance onto the fan.

[APASUS]

In the Netherlands, do not exclude the guilt of Kiev for downed "Boeing"

In the Netherlands, what the hemp is over, see the dry?