Military Review

"Black Baron" Wrangel. Part 2

84
Wrangel became the head of the White Army under pressure from the Entente, which is another clear confirmation of the pro-Western and puppet nature of the white movement.


Civil war

After the Crimea, Peter Nikolaevich went to Kiev, where he decided to cooperate with the Hetman government, P. P. Skoropadsky. Wrangell as a whole speaks favorably of General Skoropadsky. However, their political interests diverged. Wrangel was ready to accept the German orientation, but he categorically did not share Skoropadsky’s ideas about the formation of a “separatist” Ukraine. Wrangel was ready to serve the hetman only if he "thinks of Ukraine in the first syllable of Russia."

As a result, Wrangel decided to join the Volunteer Army. In September 1918, the baron arrived in Yekaterinodar. Here he was very warmly received by A.I. Denikin, who gave him command of the first brigade, and then 1-th cavalry division. At this time, the Volunteer Army attempted to nominate only members of the Ice Camp, to the highest command posts, but an exception was made for Pyotr Nikolayevich. He was a famous cavalry commander, and the whites needed his talent and popularity. As a close friend of Denikin’s family, D. V. Lekhovich, wrote: “The services that Wrangel provided to the army met the expectations. From the very beginning, he showed himself to be an outstanding cavalry commander, well versed in a combat situation, able to take responsibility, to make decisions on the spot. Having appreciated the qualities of a commander in him - the art of maneuver, impulse and energy, General Denikin, completely trusting Wrangel, advanced his service with sincere joy ”.

Wrangel fought on the Maikop direction. In October, Armavir was captured, and in November - Stavropol. By the end of the year, Peter Nikolaevich was given command of the corps, as well as epaulets of the lieutenant general. At the end of January 1919, during the next reorganization of the white army, Wrangel became the commander of the Caucasian Volunteer Army, which very quickly liberated the North Caucasus from the Reds. General Wrangel sought to collect the cavalry into a fist and throw it into a breakthrough. It was the swift attacks of the Wrangel cavalry that determined the result of the battles in Kuban and the North Caucasus that was positive for whites. In May, Wrangel assumed command of the Kuban army, which, under his command, stopped the advance of the 10 Army of the Reds and forced them to retreat to Tsaritsyn. Then Wrangel launched an attack on Tsaritsyn. A major military victory for the Baron was the capture of Tsaritsyn 30 on June 1919 of the year, which had been stormed by ataman Krasnov three times before.

At this time, there was a conflict between Denikin and Wrangel, which eventually resulted in an open confrontation. Obviously, Wrangel’s sharp nature, his ambition and obvious dictatorial manners played an important role in this dispute. Wrangel, apparently believed that he would cope better with the case than Denikin. Baron believed that the commander-in-chief did not have enough scale, political instinct, “rush”. In his memoirs, he blames Denikin for provincial origins, a petty-bourgeois and liberal mentality, prejudice against the aristocracy, the court and the guard. Also, according to Wrangel, Denikin was afraid of conspiracies, allowed white terror and looting in the white-controlled territory, pushed the Cossacks away from his actions and did not solve the land issue. It is worth noting that Wrangel also spoke negatively about other leaders of the white army. He writes about Shkuro as an organizer of robbery, drinking and debauchery, a partisan, and not a serious military commander. Criticizes the baron generals Mamontov, Slashcheva and many others.

Militarily, the conflict flared up because of the choice of the strategic direction of the offensive of the White Army. Denikin considered Kharkov to be the main direction, followed by movement to Moscow. Wrangel also insisted on the primary importance of fighting on the Volga, followed by connection with the army of Admiral Kolchak. After signing the summer of 1919, the famous "Moscow directive" Denikin, the situation worsened. This directive, according to Wrangel, "was a death sentence to the troops of the South of Russia." The Black Baron received the task of attacking Moscow through Saratov and Nizhny Novgorod. The main forces and assets of the Whites went to Ukraine, from where the May-Mayevsky Volunteer Army developed. Wrangell also believed that the army should not attack Moscow in three different groups, and again complained about the lack of reinforcements (as during the operation to capture Tsaritsyn). Denikin, on the other hand, believed that the area of ​​Wrangel’s army was auxiliary compared to other armies. As a result, exhausted, exhausted by the previous battles, Wrangel's army could not successfully move forward: soon it was thrown back to Tsaritsyn, where it was entrenched.

In the fall of 1919, the Red forces regrouped and defeated the white forces advancing on Moscow. In December, Wrangel received the Volunteer Army, which fought in a strategic direction, but he failed to stop the retreat. Arriving in the army, he was faced with their complete moral decay, rampant drunkenness and robbery. Petr Nikolaevich tried to restore order, but time was lost. It is worth noting that looting invariably caused the anger of Peter Wrangel. In all areas controlled by him, he brutally imposed order, cracked down on marauders, disciplinary offenders. Victims of field courts were hanged in the center of the cities, so that others would be discouraged.

At this time, the conflict with Denikin flared up with a new force. Wrangell believed that the army should be withdrawn to the Crimea, the commander in chief demanded a withdrawal to the Don. As a result, Wrangel tried to organize a meeting of army commanders in Rostov, but received Denikin’s firm refusal. The commander in chief rightly saw this as an attempt to make a revolution in the leadership of the Armed Forces of Southern Russia. 2 January 1920, Denikin withdrew Wrangel as Commander of the Volunteer Army. Wrangel had supporters among the right-wing part of the white movement. Some generals suggested that Wrangel be appointed commander of the troops in the Crimea, but Denikin was opposed. In the end, Denikin ordered Wrangel to leave the territory of the Armed Forces of the South of Russia. Before leaving for Constantinople, insulted Peter Nikolaevich wrote an evil and detailed letter about stories relations with Denikin, which became the property of the general public.

"Black Baron" Wrangel. Part 2


Ruler of the South of Russia

In March, 1920, Denikin refused the post of commander of the All-Soviet Union. And then, under the pressure of the Entente, he appointed Wrangel as his successor, which is another clear confirmation of the pro-Western nature of the white movement. Wrangel arrived in Sevastopol on the British battleship "The Emperor of India" and took command. In one of his first orders, the new commander-in-chief assumed for himself the full power - he assumed the title of “Ruler and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces in the South of Russia”.

Wrangel considered the Crimea "the last strand of the Russian land", where a handful of heroes lead a desperate struggle for the freedom of Russia and for Russia as such. Therefore, within six months of 1920, when the baron was “the ruler of the South of Russia”, he tried to take into account the mistakes of his predecessors and boldly went to previously inconceivable compromises, trying to win over various forces of the Civil War (“Though with the devil, just to ! ”). So, he recognized the need for a federal structure of Russia. He tended to recognize the political independence of Ukraine with the aim of concluding a military alliance with the army of the Directorate of the UNR Petliura (by that time almost lost control over the territory of Ukraine). He recognized the independence of the mountain federation of the North Caucasus. I tried to establish contacts with the Menshevik government of Georgia, the leaders of the rebel formations of Ukraine, including Makhno, but did not succeed. But smaller gangs of "green" willingly entered into an alliance with Wrangel.

Wrangell understood that without agrarian reform, the provision of land to the peasants and the support of the peasantry, no victory was possible. Therefore, he recognizes the redistribution of land in the village. The established government of A. V. Krivoshein carried out a number of long-awaited but already belated reforms. The main thing was the "Land Law", adopted by the government of 25 in May 1920. It was based on the provision of ownership of most of the land to the peasants. He recognized as legitimate the seizure of landlords by the peasants in the first years after the revolution. True, for a certain cash or kind ransom in favor of the state. The government reformed the local government with the formation of volost land institutions, in which peasants played an important role. Wrangel sought to attract the Cossacks to his side, promulgating a number of decrees on the regional autonomy of the Cossack lands. He patronized the workers, adopting a number of provisions on labor legislation. Peter Nikolaevich reorganized the army, actively fought against looting and the disintegration of troops.

However, the defeat was inevitable. The fight in the Kuban and Don was lost. The Red Army won and established control over the main part of Russia. The territory of the Crimea was too weak a springboard for the white counter-offensive. Strong allies were not. England saw that the whites had lost the war, in fact refused to further support the Wrangel government, offering to turn "to the Soviet government, with a view to achieve an amnesty." General Wrangel will write later in his memoirs: “The refusal of the British from further assistance to us took away the last hopes. The position of the army was becoming desperate. But I have already made a decision. ” Therefore, France became the main external ally of the white Crimea. Paris morally and financially encouraged the white offensive in order to support Poland, which got involved in the war with Soviet Russia in the spring of 1920. France has traditionally supported the Poles, getting a tool in the fight against Germany and Russia. They used whites as “cannon fodder” to divert the attention and forces of the Red Army from Poland.


White propaganda poster "General-Lieutenant PETR NIKOLAEVICH BARON VRANGEL" from the series of "generals" posters. VSYUR. 1919 year


The summer offensive of Wrangel's army brought separate victories, but all this only delayed the end of the white movement in Russia. The autumn offensive of the Red Army put an end to the Black Baron’s government. In November 1920 of the year, the red troops of the Southern Front, commanded by M. Frunze, with the support of the Makhnovist units, broke into the peninsula. Wrangel had to order the evacuation.

Baron settled with part of the troops, first in Turkey, then in Yugoslavia. In emigration, the baron tried to preserve the fighting capacity of the white army. It was hoped that sooner or later a major Western power or a coalition of countries would start a struggle with Soviet Russia, and then the whites would be useful in the war against “Bolshevism.” In 1924, the Russian Military Alliance (EMRO) was created - the largest military organization in exile. The leadership of this organization Wrangel handed over to Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich Romanov. Wrangell himself moved to Belgium, where he wrote memoirs. His health deteriorated due to his illness and injuries. He fell ill and died on 25 on April 1928. According to the version of his family, the NKVD agents poisoned the Baron.
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"Black Baron" Wrangell
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  1. zoolu350
    zoolu350 April 26 2018 05: 47
    +15
    His health deteriorated as a result of his illnesses and injuries. He became seriously ill and died on April 25, 1928. According to the relatives of the baron, agents of the NKVD poisoned him.

    Well, I really hope that the version of Baron’s relatives is correct. The enemies of the people should not die by their death.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 26 2018 06: 17
      +19
      Quote: zoolu350
      Public Enemies should not die by their own death.

      True public Enemies and did not die their death yes : THE FIRST composition of the so-called The Council of People's Commissars Stalin shot as enemies of the people, they also shot the glorious Leninist guard (also the enemy lol ) -Apfelbaum (Zinoviev), Rosenfeld (Kamenev), Steklov (Nakhamkins) and so forth, many red marpshal (the enemy were still those yes ), 75% of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of the Bolsheviks (all with pre-revolutionary experience, but HOW am )) 17th congress of winners and other. Don't forget this
      But Stalin didn’t call Peter Nikolaevich an enemy of the people, he knew that they were in the VKPB .... yes ..

      And if Wrangel died surrounded by his family and fellow soldiers, surrounded by care, respect and glory, then the above were shot and buried in no one knows where, having previously broken and humiliated them, destroying their families. The difference between the enemies and the enemies caught? yes
      1. zoolu350
        zoolu350 April 26 2018 08: 01
        +13
        Oh, the bullcrusts pulled themselves up. Tell me more that Stalin was a hidden monarchist, in the closet "God Save the Tsar Sang" and prayed in secret icons?
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 April 26 2018 08: 11
          +6
          Quote: zoolu350
          Tell me more that Stalin

          ......... was an agent of the royal secret police, collaborated with the gendarmes.
          The joke, of course, comes from the boulder crunches, but every joke, as you know, has its own share of truth.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS April 26 2018 08: 24
          +4
          Quote: zoolu350
          Oh, the bullcrusts pulled themselves up. Tell me more that Stalin was a hidden monarchist, in the closet "God Save the Tsar Sang" and prayed in secret icons?

          Partly yes.
        3. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 26 2018 08: 45
          +8
          Quote: zoolu350
          Oh, the bullcrusts pulled up

          Peskohrustov must be taught to correctly use such definitions as "enemy of the people" - you can continue to line them yourself. Who else is among yours among them: Rykov, Pyatakov, Bukharin, the so-called Sokolnikov (Hirsch Brilliant), Lifshits, Krylenko, Dybenko, blucher, yakirs and other and other. Remember Your enemies of the people. yes
          And remember also about the DIFFERENCE between life and a worthy demise of NEVRAGS of the people (Wrangel, Denikin, etc.) and life and the miserable end of ENEMIES of the people. yes
          Quote: zoolu350
          Tell me more that Stalin was a hidden monarchist, in the closet "God Save the Tsar Sang" and prayed in secret icons?

          You know better hi lol
        4. Weyland
          Weyland April 26 2018 17: 10
          +1
          Quote: zoolu350
          Tell me more that Stalin was a hidden monarchist, in the closet "God Save the Tsar Sang" and prayed in secret icons?

          He was an open monarchist - for he himself became a de facto monarch!
      2. kan123
        kan123 April 26 2018 09: 57
        +5
        Bukharin was still shot, who was a harmless uncle. It only became clear what he was preparing for the country, having passed the so-called Restructuring. This is all that Gorbachev claimed - taken from the Bukharin "economy." Today we live in a world of victorious Trotskyism — all these oligraches, “the market will straighten everything out,” is taken from the program of Bukharin, who, upon Trotsky’s coming to power, would have embodied all this “perestroika”.
        Even this idiocy or betrayal allows us to live like that - we’ve been dying for 30 years, we won’t die. And Wrangel, who died in bed, probably fell off his liver - there was a "program" where 100 million Russian peasants until 1973 would pay for their six hundredths - they would still be picking their dung - probably Germans or Americans . Wrangel, Kolchak Denikin are all plans for transforming Russia into the African continent, dictated from the USA, England - these were their plans, with all the best wishes of the Excellency Wrangel, if he had any at all - he seems to be a good careerist and a good bastard. He is to the detriment of the case, for the sake of ambition he spoke there, for which he had to be removed. Who does this - "do not care about Russia, the white deed - the main thing is to make me king."
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        2. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 April 26 2018 12: 58
          0
          And in the PRC, the works of Bukharin and Trotsky have been printed and studied since the 80s. And they never took seriously the Soviet version that they were spies, traitors, etc.
          1. dSK
            dSK April 27 2018 08: 15
            0
            Quote: Sergej1972
            in the PRC, the works of Bukharin and Trotsky have been printed and studied since the 80s.

            "Partners" set the stage for a change of order.
      3. rkkasa xnumx
        rkkasa xnumx April 26 2018 12: 56
        +7
        Quote: Olgovich
        But Stalin did not call Peter Nikolayevich an enemy of the people

        Although Stalin did not call Judah-Wed the angel an enemy of the people, he knew very well whose keepers were all these white heroes.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 26 2018 14: 12
          +5
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          Although Stalin did not name Judah Wed Angel enemy of the people, about.

          You are switching to something inarticulate! lol Calm, calm it is necessary, no one bites anyone! yes
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          he knew perfectly

          He knew perfectly well-who are the true enemies of the people, and so called them, and - and destroyed the vorogov yes :: ALL the first composition of the so-called "SNK", ALL the first composition of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the VKPBE, 75% of the members of the Central Committee of the VKPBE, eminent Chekists, practically all, etc.
          . And the names, some famous names, are almost the whole color of the Leninist party and the VOR yes
          Wrangel was not found among them ....
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            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich April 27 2018 06: 56
              +3
              Quote: rkkasa 81
              Mr., you are breaching again.

              Comrade rkassa, finally fulfill the covenant of a foreign tourist,- "Three U" open the chapter of SNK and read biographies of members of SNK from October 26. , there are FIFTEEN total ..
              And - eat your hat when you are convinced of my rightness. lol
      4. Looking for
        Looking for April 26 2018 18: 47
        +2
        Here you are, well, a patriot to the core. And ponder, Russophobe and patriotism are your one-sided.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 27 2018 07: 56
          +2
          Quote: Seeker
          Here you are, well, a patriot to the core. And ponder, Russophobe and patriotism are your one-sided.

          Nice man, you need to think HEAD! yes lol
      5. Looking for
        Looking for April 26 2018 18: 53
        +3
        Who are you, the White Guard, to classify with the Lenin Guard, these political prostitutes Zinoviev and Kamenev, who have put openly the decisions of the Central Committee of the Bolsheviks?
        1. The comment was deleted.
      6. Looking for
        Looking for April 26 2018 18: 57
        +4
        To relax in a foreign country is not the goal of the Russian general, but the Jewish cosmopolitan
    2. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx April 26 2018 06: 42
      +13
      Aspen stake in the grave, this activist deserves.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Alber
        Alber April 26 2018 09: 58
        +4
        Quote: rkkasa 81
        Aspen stake in the grave, this activist deserves.

        When Jews pour mud at someone, this information must be treated with caution, and more often with mistrust. They hate Stalin from kindergarten for not letting them plunder the country
        But who exactly needs to be put on a stake is such "friends of the people" as the Tukhochevsky, Zalkindov (Zemlyachek) Blyumkin, Sverdlov, Berzinsha, Latsisov, Peders, Yankely Yurovsky, Shai Goloshchekin, etc.
        By the way, the stake is worthy of the entire government of Ukraine ...
    3. Basil50
      Basil50 April 26 2018 07: 15
      +6
      Zulu
      Well no. NKVD there was nothing to do with it. Even the author drew attention to the squabble between Denikin and Wrangel due to origin. Denikin did not command the rank, so he was intrigued, and so he later hanged out from his former accomplices.
      The EMRO prepared for future repressions and cleansing, and the training and education methods were appropriate. So * voluntarily * leave-pass nothing was impossible. Yes, and curators, breadwinners would not allow. And to poison a long-standing European tradition. Even today.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 April 26 2018 07: 35
        +8
        Quote: Vasily50
        NKVD there was nothing to do with it.

        The NKVD really has nothing to do with Wrangel’s death, the year of foundation of the aforementioned glorious institution was 1934.
        Quote: Vasily50
        Denikin was not in command to command, so he was intrigued

        Anton Ivanovich himself was an intriguer and squabbler, since the tsarist times - he had squabbles when he studied, when he served - up to the Minister of War and the Tsar himself, so in this regard (intrigue), Anton Ivanovich was an experienced person, unlike Wrangel.
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn April 26 2018 09: 02
          +3
          Quote: bober1982
          Anton Ivanovich himself was an intriguer and squabbler, since the tsarist times - he had squabbles when he studied, when he served - up to the Minister of War and the Tsar himself, so in this regard (intrigue), Anton Ivanovich was an experienced person, unlike Wrangel.
          I agree, I’m just reading his “The Way of a Russian Officer” - a very, very dubious person, for the leader
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 April 26 2018 09: 54
            +2
            And after reading this book, I came to the conclusion that Denikin devoted much time to all kinds of squabbles, although of course I would not call him a dubious person, he was a Russian military general. In the same memoirs, Anton Ivanovich openly declares that with young years is a liberal. So here it turns out the leader, the liberal general.
            1. Stirbjorn
              Stirbjorn April 26 2018 10: 42
              +1
              Quote: bober1982
              I devoted a lot of time to all kinds of squabbles, although of course I would not call him a dubious person, it was a Russian military general.

              I emphasized that, as a leader, questionable in terms of personality, there is too much squabble on a level, in fact, place. He could not lead to victory in a civil war, by definition, despite all his military talents. I don’t understand why supporters of the white movement like to idealize it. hi
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 April 26 2018 11: 15
                +5
                The monarchists can’t stand it - he betrayed the Tsar, one of the culprits of the outbreak of civil war, as a general was sensible, but there weren’t great talents of commanders, so the Reds drove him.
    4. RUSS
      RUSS April 26 2018 08: 52
      +5
      Quote: zoolu350
      Well, I really hope that the version of Baron’s relatives is correct. The enemies of the people should not die by their death.

      You are an evil Russian wassat
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  2. Yak28
    Yak28 April 26 2018 06: 39
    +13
    He became seriously ill and died on April 25, 1928. According to the version of the baron’s relatives, the NKVD agents poisoned him.

    It must have been a rookie poison lol
    But seriously, how many I did not read positive and laudatory articles about the leaders of the white movement and the tsar, how many did not watch films, but still Wrangel, Denikin, Kolchak and so on are traitors and enemies for me. They cause me persistent dislike and loathing.
    Probably because I studied in the USSR, and somehow I got used to the fact that it's my own red ones.
    1. baudolino
      baudolino April 26 2018 07: 46
      +5
      Red and white ended long ago. Their own are Russians.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS April 26 2018 08: 34
          +8
          Quote: zoolu350
          Nothing ended, but resumed. Russian Reds are their own, Bulk-crunches, liberals, adherents of the KhPP and other neovlasovs are enemies.

          All in a bunch laughing , by the way, there were many Communists among Vlasov’s, and Vlasov himself went to Stalin’s favorites, so Vlasov’s people aren’t as white as hell, but the adherents of the KhPP are a waste! You have a hash in your head.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 April 26 2018 08: 55
            +9
            Quote: RUSS
            You have a hash in your head.

            The comrade mentioned all but the neo-Trotskyists, it looks like he can be immediately identified from these “handwriting”.
          2. Looking for
            Looking for April 26 2018 19: 11
            0
            And you have primitive reasoning in your head. Have you at least tried to analyze any historical fact not as a bare fact, but as a combination of reasons and conditions?
    2. RUSS
      RUSS April 26 2018 08: 30
      +6
      Quote: Yak28
      For me, Wrangel, Denikin, Kolchak and so on are traitors and enemies. They cause me a strong hostility and disgust.
      Probably because I studied in the USSR, and somehow I got used to the fact that it's my own red ones.

      Until the generation changes completely in Russia, the white movement will remain hostile, you correctly said that from an early age we were instilled with the idea that the red ones are simply ours, but for many, as for me, the white movement and their leaders are ours, and all the rest are virgins.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr April 26 2018 09: 15
        +5
        You are absolutely right! For fun, I’ll give my own example. Up to 10 years, we in the family with my granddaughter did not somehow talk about my past studies - it’s still small. And they didn’t talk about “white and red” at all. And somehow I said to her that I was a communist ... She cautiously cringed and asked in a whisper: "Does grandma know?" We burst out laughing, told her everything, and she said: “Even so ...” That is, without any negative impact on our part, but only on the basis of external information, the child who lives in abundance had the opinion that to be a communist is fear and horror. Of course, there are also marginals ... but in general, the Z generation has already been vaccinated against this infection.
        1. IImonolitII
          IImonolitII April 26 2018 09: 59
          +6
          Oh, weak, very weak sample. Your granddaughter just has not yet encountered the realities of the oligarchic dictatorship. In 10 years it will become an ardent socialist, how to give a drink.
          1. RUSS
            RUSS April 26 2018 10: 24
            +2
            Quote: IImonolitII
            Oh, weak, very weak sample. Your granddaughter just has not yet encountered the realities of the oligarchic dictatorship. In 10 years it will become an ardent socialist, how to give a drink.

            In the elections of the 2nd candidate, Stalin and socialism as a whole were very often mentioned, they wanted to ride on a high rating of Vissarionovich, but the people can’t be fooled and he, like most young people, voted against slums, against socialism, etc.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene April 26 2018 17: 17
              +5
              Quote: RUSS
              In the elections of the 2nd candidate, Stalin and socialism as a whole were very often mentioned, they wanted to ride on a high rating of Vissarionovich, but the people can’t be fooled and he, like most young people, voted against slums, against socialism, etc.

              Well, these were really hollow breeds, because the real Bolshevik-Stalinists boycotted the elections, because they understand that the Communists will never win the elections, and there is no need to speculate on this.
        2. Ryazan87
          Ryazan87 April 26 2018 12: 11
          +3
          God grant. Although according to the comments (not only to this article) it is clear that there can be no reconciliation with the Reds. If only because they themselves are not at all inclined to compromise and some kind of civic consensus. They have a completely different rhetoric + schizophrenic ideological constructs.
          1. Sanya Terek
            Sanya Terek April 26 2018 21: 38
            +5
            Quote: Ryazanets87
            ... according to the comments (not only to this article) it is clear that there can be no reconciliation with the Reds. If only because they themselves are not at all inclined to compromise and some kind of civic consensus. They have a completely different rhetoric + schizophrenic ideological constructs.

            Do you strive for some kind of reconciliation? After reading the comments of your French (in the recent past, Moldavian) like-minded person or young man in a uniform from someone else’s shoulder, nothing comes to mind except the words of the Minister of Foreign Affairs (I will not quote, obscene language). Boorish rhetoric + schizophrenic ideological constructions.
            1. Ryazan87
              Ryazan87 April 27 2018 11: 09
              +2
              "Your French (in the recent past, Moldavian) like-minded or young man," - sorry, I didn’t understand who it was. Of course, I don’t intend to correlate my position with the statements of some “Moldovan youth”;
              Regarding reconciliation, on the whole, I would not be opposed. But for now, expressions like "Although Stalin did not call Judas-cz an angel an enemy of the people, were full of words, he knew very well whose keepers were all these white heroes." (C) - what can I say?
              Reconciliation is not giving or dictating terms to someone, but reaching agreement, is it? Not a single “red” that I met in the field of public discussion was capable of such a thing in principle. Maybe I'm just unlucky)
        3. Curious
          Curious April 26 2018 15: 01
          +6
          But tell me, Vyacheslav Olegovich, why did you join this vile organization, which is called the CPSU? The statement wrote about the readiness to make every effort and the desire to be in the ranks of the advanced vanguard.
        4. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene April 26 2018 17: 12
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          without any negative impact on our part, but only on the basis of external information, the child who lives in abundance formed the opinion that being a communist is fear and horror. Of course, there are also marginals ... but in general, the Z generation has already been vaccinated against this infection.

          Firstly. they do not live in abundance as much as you think, so pity their children and grandchildren, they will have to live under socialism, and if they meet him with such concepts, they will have big problems.
          Secondly, the children of the common people are now being trained by capitalism, they will soon understand that not everyone will succeed, and then they will be even more firm and consistent in their intentions to achieve a just life.
          1. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 April 26 2018 18: 54
            +1
            Alexander, I'm sorry to get in, but can you give a definition of this very "simple people"? Who are they? What is the criterion?
            - property status (income, real estate availability);
            - educational level;
            - cultural development;
            Something else? Or all together?
            And how does “ordinary people” relate to simply “people”? Are these identical concepts or not? I am really interested in your point of view on those who "will be even more firm and consistent in their intentions to achieve a just life."
            And, by the way, do you yourself rank yourself among the common people?
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene April 26 2018 19: 31
              +3
              Quote: Ryazanets87
              And, by the way, do you yourself rank yourself among the common people?

              I actually like the division into the bourgeoisie, the working class and the working peasantry, but in order not to frighten the inexperienced readers of the forum with class concepts, I used the term "common people", which refers to those who live at the expense of their labor for one salary or pension , does not have any privileges, does not have any additional income, has not stuck to any feeding trough.
              Above it are the oligarchs, large entrepreneurs, the creative and managerial elite. Between them is the intelligentsia.

              I consider myself to be a simple people, because I’m not parasitizing anyone, I have what the Soviet regime gave.
              1. Ryazan87
                Ryazan87 April 26 2018 20: 20
                +3
                Well i.e. a simplified class model about the beginning of the 20th century.
                The key criterion for referring to the "common people" is the presence / absence of a social-parasitic trait.
                Description of the representative of the "common people":
                - life is exclusively for a salary;
                - lack of privileges (it is not very clear what is meant, perhaps something like the advantages of status, say a federal judge);
                - no additional income.
                It follows from this that the use of, for example, hired labor, self-employment, or a source of additional income (at least renting out real estate) automatically excludes a person from the "common people."
                Right?
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene April 26 2018 23: 40
                  +3
                  Quote: Ryazanets87
                  It follows from this that the use of, for example, hired labor, self-employment, or a source of additional income (at least renting out real estate) automatically excludes a person from the "common people."
                  Right?

                  True: hired labor and renting out real estate.
                  1. Ryazan87
                    Ryazan87 April 27 2018 11: 34
                    0
                    Ownership of the means of production is still forgotten, sorry.
                    Only one question - does the size of the salary matter for qualification as a "common people"? Well, for example, a skilled worker earns 80 thousand - he still passes?
                    In total, when defining a "simple people", which will be the main engine for building the future of socialism, we exclude:
                    1. Everyone involved in entrepreneurial activity (wage labor, ownership of the means of production) + of course, farmers;
                    2. All self-employed (any freelance - this piecework and also entrepreneurship + the taxi driver has a car, the tutor has his intellectual capital);
                    2. All civil servants, especially the power block (they have a significant block of privileges - early retirement, for example);
                    3. All those with incomes other than salaries (for example, rent apartments), owners of deposits, shares, etc .;
                    Pensioners, strictly speaking, also have privileges (benefits, for example, for paying utilities) + often indulge in rents and self-employment.
                    Who remains in the ranks of the common people?
                    - workers of low and medium qualifications (highly skilled are unlikely to pass the level of income). Although the question of salary level is open.
                    - office plankton of the lowest level + so-called low-paid state employees "without privileges;
                    - rural population on a fixed salary;
                    True or missed something?
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene April 27 2018 17: 57
                      +4
                      Quote: Ryazanets87
                      True or missed something?

                      Missed the main thing, the dialectic. You are trying to simplify and formalize everything, while forgetting that there are no clear boundaries anywhere. For example, you have named several detachments of the petty bourgeoisie, but you forget that the petty bourgeoisie is the most changing class in society, because its constant companion is bankruptcy, and that the petty bourgeoisie is an integral part of all revolutions, it hates the big bourgeoisie no less than the worker class.
                    2. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene April 27 2018 18: 37
                      +3
                      The connection is buggy, therefore, in addition to the previous comment:
                      The working class is also not homogeneous; there is the working mass and the laboring aristocracy, nourished by the bourgeoisie.
                      If you are interested in the driving forces of the revolution, then theory and practice testify that the revolution is not made by the party, or even the class, but by the people, while the driving force of the revolutionary action is the working class of large industry, the rest of the allies and fellow travelers.
                      If you want to read how people are divided into classes, and which of them is more revolutionary, then follow the link
                      http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/publ/chto_nuzhno_znat_o
                      _proletariate / 1-1-0-53
        5. Hantengri
          Hantengri April 26 2018 22: 08
          +5
          Quote: kalibr
          You are absolutely right! For fun, I’ll give my own example. Until 10 years, we in the family with my granddaughter did not somehow talk about my past studies - it’s still small ...

          Vyacheslav Olegovich, I certainly understand that the propagandist is a humanist and a mat. statistics - "two things are incompatible." But try "Fun for the sake" to solve the problem:
          Given:
          The number of respondents is 1 person.
          As of January 1, 2018, according to Rosstat, there were 146 permanent residents in Russia (calculate the number of children aged 880-432 years independently)
          -------------------------------------------------

          Wanted to know: What is the representativeness of this sample? laughing
          You can also try to calculate the error of the results of this "experiment" (using the least squares method, for example.) lol
      2. kan123
        kan123 April 26 2018 09: 43
        +4
        The problem is much deeper than even Soviet history, which has frayed this issue. In fact, there were revolutions all over the world, and everywhere there were heroes. The revolution was a necessary reform for any country. For all nations, no one condemns them, and deytelyam - but does not approve, because the revolution is a change of power. And only in the Russian Federation is this some kind of monstrous crime. There were whites - retrograde cities, they did not want this reform - that’s all their criticism, regardless of who the bastard was there, who was not. But if about the negative, the whites were criminals, since they were supplied by enemy countries that destroyed Russia. Just from any point of view is a fact.
        The problem is much deeper - there was a revolution in the USA that was mockingly, as usual, called the "release of blacks" (!) Which is ridiculous - nobody has released them so far. And who is the hero in the USA - these are the instigators of the civil war. According to statistics, the most brutal war was in the United States. There was massacre and robbery and violence against the population - the probe, the teams sent from Washington, crazy, they called themselves "punitive" "marauders" - three times more people killed per capita than in Russia. Probably the Americans are just scumbag people — for all that was happening in the Republic of Ingushetia, they blindfolded more than three times the people — they simply killed anyone, took his belongings, raped his wife, put a rifle nearby and took pictures - they killed him in battle. And with all this - they are US heroes. And in the Russian Federation there is some kind of idiocy - well, we do not have other heroes who carried out this reform, without which there would have been Africa 2.0 - it was impossible to carry out these reforms without a revolution. Therefore, all who did this and sacrificed the skin, for these reforms - the hero of the Russian Federation. And whites have nothing to do with it - they are the same "southerners" in the USA, or fascists after the revolution in Germany, or fanatics of the samurai after the revolution in Japan - there was opposition everywhere, everywhere there are these "whites" - otherwise the revolution would not have been necessary, if they were not there. Well, and how to relate to them today - in history books for children? After all, the brains are completely crazy on this Sorov formation, which has invested a billion - in the Khokhlyat "education" in Moldovan, Georgian - Russian and so on. All this must be rewritten for the benefit of the Russian Federation. Because it’s enemy propaganda, making idiots from Russians and others so that they would burn garbage in the squares - secondly, it’s just stupid.
      3. Yak28
        Yak28 April 26 2018 18: 18
        +7
        You see how interesting your white people are, the Tsar’s martyr and you will tell this to your children. For me, on the contrary, Stalin is a hero, our red ones, and white enemies, and I will bring this to my children. Such as you and I are millions, and as a result a generational change It will not give anything. Red and white is forever. wink
    3. Gopnik
      Gopnik April 26 2018 14: 13
      +2
      Well, it’s understandable — the brains in the USSR were dirty with propaganda.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene April 26 2018 17: 18
        +7
        Quote: Gopnik
        Well, it’s understandable — the brains in the USSR were dirty with propaganda.

        Oh, they’re filthy now, better keep quiet.
        1. Gopnik
          Gopnik April 26 2018 17: 49
          +3
          Now, at least there is freedom of speech and choice. And the flow of information is wide. This was not the case in the USSR
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene April 26 2018 19: 35
            +4
            Quote: Gopnik
            Now, at least there is freedom of speech and choice. And the flow of information is wide. This was not the case in the USSR

            Freedom of speech has not yet affected the interests of the ruling class. Example: in the last presidential election, those political parties that openly campaigned for a boycott of the election were persecuted.
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik April 26 2018 19: 52
              +2
              In the USSR, if there were no alternative elections at all, there was only one party, with the leading role prescribed in the constitution.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene April 26 2018 23: 57
                +5
                Quote: Gopnik
                In the USSR, if there were no alternative elections at all,

                Why wasn’t it? There were, only they took place at the preliminary discussions. Our company put forward Petrov, yours - Ivanova, the candidates were discussed, then the best one was chosen from them, registered and approved at the elections. Moreover, all deputies worked in the workplace, found out what complaints and shortcomings were and reported on them at the sessions, after which measures were taken to eliminate them. Now, all the deputies are released, they promise a lot in the elections, but no one fulfills anything promised.
                Quote: Gopnik
                there was only one party, with the leading role prescribed in the constitution.

                Now the party, for example, in the Duma is also one, only divided into several parts, for deception. One part is ruling, the other is supposedly in opposition. then they change places, if they get too bad, they will change the name, but the program is the same - regular increase in prices and tariffs at the beginning of the year and indexation of wages for inflation at the end of the year.
                1. Gopnik
                  Gopnik April 27 2018 13: 18
                  +1
                  This is not an election. This is the coordination of candidates - who to let go to the "election". That is, in fact, there were no elections, there were "approvers" of a previously approved candidate.

                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Now the party, for example, in the Duma is also one, only divided into several parts, for deception. One part is ruling, the other is supposedly in opposition. then they change places, if they get too bad, they will change the name, but the program is the same - regular increase in prices and tariffs at the beginning of the year and indexation of wages for inflation at the end of the year.


                  This is because now all the same communist gebists are in power, who are only able in the CPSU and are only trying to resemble the Russian government, which was actually destroyed in 1917.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene April 28 2018 18: 31
                    +3
                    Quote: Gopnik
                    This is not an election. This is the coordination of candidates - who to let go to the "election". That is, in fact, there were no elections, there were "approvers" of a previously approved candidate


                    So they released the best and everyone voted for them, because they understood that they were really worthy, and they would work honestly. Now is the election? They vote for the one who deceives more beautifully.
      2. Yak28
        Yak28 April 26 2018 18: 24
        +6
        And the most interesting thing is that those nasties and horror stories that in the USSR talked about capitalism turned out to be true. And the current false and duplicitous propaganda surpasses the Soviet one hundred times
        1. Gopnik
          Gopnik April 26 2018 19: 53
          +3
          ABOUT capitalism maybe, I do not know, did not live under capitalism. But what was told about the history of Russia turned out to be a lie almost completely
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene April 26 2018 23: 58
            +4
            Quote: Gopnik
            ABOUT capitalism maybe, I do not know, did not live under capitalism.

            Sir, where do you live now?
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik April 27 2018 13: 20
              +1
              In the same country that mimicked the USSR with the CPSU, with their state capitalism, authoritarianism, lack of civil liberties, the dictatorship of the "power vertical", etc.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene April 27 2018 17: 28
                +4
                Quote: Gopnik
                In the same country that mimicked the USSR with the CPSU, with their state capitalism, authoritarianism, lack of civil liberties, the dictatorship of the "power vertical", etc.

                You surprise me, don’t you know that state capitalism is the highest stage of capitalism.
                1. Gopnik
                  Gopnik April 27 2018 19: 16
                  +1
                  IIIii ??? What is this ??
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene April 27 2018 23: 40
                    +3
                    Quote: Gopnik
                    IIIii ??? What is this ??

                    Why are you so dull? You yourself declare that you didn’t live under capitalism, but live in a mimicking USSR with its state capitalism. I am closing the gaps in your knowledge, you obviously did not know that after the destruction of socialism in the USSR, the basis of its economy, the state monopoly working for the whole society, became a capitalist monopoly, i.e. in Russia, state-monopoly capitalism is now - and this is nothing but the highest stage of capitalism. And you, not understanding this, declare that you did not live under capitalism. You live just under capitalism.
                    1. Gopnik
                      Gopnik April 28 2018 14: 15
                      +1
                      Fill in your gaps, for starters. In the USSR there was state capitalism, almost as it is now.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene April 28 2018 18: 33
                        +5
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        Fill in your gaps, for starters. In the USSR there was state capitalism, almost as it is now.

                        By this you only confirmed your political illiteracy.
            2. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid April 28 2018 11: 25
              +3
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Quote: Gopnik
              ABOUT capitalism maybe, I do not know, did not live under capitalism.

              Sir, where do you live now?

              Alexander, there are two possible answers ----- did not live under capitalism, but rose above many ... reigned ... hmm - hmm ..... Or vice versa, did not live under capitalism, but silently turned up ... ....
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene April 28 2018 12: 09
                +4
                Quote: Reptiloid
                Alexander, there are two possible answers ----- did not live under capitalism, but rose above many ... reigned ... hmm - hmm ..... Or vice versa, did not live under capitalism, but silently turned up ... ..

                Yes, here is more likely an option that a person simply "trolls"
  3. Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 26 2018 07: 10
    +3
    An internal split began in the midst of the white movement. The situation was no longer manageable. And when it comes to the permissibility of independent Ukraine, and not only - what can I say.
  4. kan123
    kan123 April 26 2018 09: 27
    +1
    Wrangel took Tsaritsin.
    Wrangel suggested a more suitable plan - a connection with Kolchak.
    Wrangel - that, Wrangel, and all with his words.
    According to Tsaritsin, the Red Army was ordered to retreat, and create a corridor for the withdrawal of troops along the Volga. Wrangel simply came there, to the abandoned city, and unlike Moscow, in particular Lev Davydych, the city could not have been given away, in the opinion of the same Budyonny. And with the Volga - the same thing - if Wrangel is so smart - that he was prevented from going up from Tsaritsin up to join Kolchak - but there was already the 10th Army of the Red Army, which for some reason was taken out of Tsaritsin, and the baron did not really go there, and wanted to like Denikin. Sobsno the Red Army had already beaten the Belykh everywhere - and Denikin had moved so far, only thanks to the train along which he walked — he would not have gone far in the steppes. Therefore, these drunken insults and waving at the baron's fists do not really color him. He generally behaved ugly there, as usual, his own headquarters - Denikin, described as a bunch of idiots that demoralized the army, especially the support of all this hopeless b. business. That is, it was necessary to give him to be shot, preserving unity of command - otherwise everyone will begin to criticize the headquarters and the army to turn into a herd of sheep. In the Red Army, such barons quickly went to a slap.
    In general, this idea - to make such a detour - through Kolchak, this is nonsense. On the march horses are lost - people, all supplies are lost - these are three thousand miles, instead of five hundred. Secondly, Kolchak seemed to have gathered an “army” with terror - he had three hundred thousand, on paper, who knew that they would all scatter through the forests and towards the Red Army?
  5. Freeman
    Freeman April 26 2018 10: 40
    +4
    Olgovich Today, 06:17
    But Stalin did not call Peter Nikolaevich an enemy of the people ...

    But what about this?
    I.V. Stalin in an interview with an employee of the newspaper Pravda
    “... as long as Wrangel is intact, while Wrangel has the opportunity to threaten our rear, our fronts will limp on both legs, our successes on the anti-Polish fronts cannot be lasting. Only with the liquidation of Wrangel will it be possible to consider our victory over the Polish pans secured. Therefore, the party should inscribe on its banner a new regular slogan: “Remember Wrangel!”, "Death to Wrangel!"

    Or is the call "Death to Wrangel" not a recognition of his enemy, moreover, deadly?
  6. Opera
    Opera April 26 2018 11: 40
    +2
    Quote: zoolu350
    Oh, the bullcrusts pulled themselves up. Tell me more that Stalin was a hidden monarchist, in the closet "God Save the Tsar Sang" and prayed in secret icons?

    Well this is God saved! And about the icons, you’re like something at all ... They pray not to the icons, but to the Lord, the Mother of God, asking for the intercession of the saints before God. Is that bad in your opinion?
    1. zoolu350
      zoolu350 April 26 2018 12: 19
      +2
      They are praying just for the icons, for it is a fetish so that theologians of adapted Judaism for the gentiles (Christianity) would not say otherwise. For Catholics and Protestants, a crucifix and sculpture fetish, for Orthodox icons. Stalin, as formed in a religious environment, managed to move to a new stage of consciousness - the ideological, where religion is only one of the tools, and not the basis of worldview.
      1. dSK
        dSK April 27 2018 08: 10
        0
        Quote: zoolu350
        religion is only one of the tools, and not the basis of worldview.
        It’s you who tell the Lord God when you will be giving him a “report” about your past life.
        1. zoolu350
          zoolu350 April 27 2018 14: 41
          0
          So what is god for you to report to?
          1. dSK
            dSK April 27 2018 16: 23
            0
            I believe in one God the Father, the Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earthvisible to all and invisible.
            When our earthly journey ends, everyone will have to “report” to the Creator about their words and deeds, and no one will be able to avoid this.
            1. zoolu350
              zoolu350 April 28 2018 11: 34
              +3
              Matter and the laws of its development created a null-singular outbreak billions of years ago, it is physically impossible to report to this outbreak. Moreover, the power that created billions of stars and planets, the actions of one of their inhabitants is absolutely on the drum.
  7. Freeman
    Freeman April 26 2018 13: 46
    +2
    Quote: baudolino
    Red and white ended long ago. Their own are Russians.

    Quote: zoolu350
    Nothing ended, but resumed. Russian Reds are their own, Bulk-crunches, liberals, adherents of the KhPP and other neovlasovs are enemies.

    Regrettably, but everything is just beginning ...

    In Kerch, on election day (to the Duma in 2016. * approx.), The first monument to Peter Wrangel, the commander in chief of the anti-Bolshevik forces in southern Russia, was erected. The press service of the Ministry of Culture reports that with the blessing of Metropolitan Theodosius and Kerch Plato, the monument was erected on the territory of the church of the Apostle Andrew the First-Called.

    The first deputy minister of culture Vladimir Aristarkhov took part in the unveiling of the monument to the white general. In his speech, he uttered words unexpected for those raised on Soviet textbooks.

    “Today we recall a great man, whose name should rightfully stand in line with the outstanding commanders of our history, along with Dmitry Donskoy, Alexander Nevsky and our other great military leaders. Petr Nikolaevich Wrangel ... - said the deputy head of the federal department. - In addition to personal valor, in addition to being one of the best commanders in the Russian army, Pyotr Nikolayevich was also a great organizer of civil affairs. It was here, in Crimea, that a model was shown that Russia can be Russian, national, sovereign and well-organized, which is not a sin to learn today. ”

    About how many wonderful discoveries
    (monuments, busts, plaques)
    Prepares a revenge spirit. (C)
    wassat
  8. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  9. Gronsky
    Gronsky April 26 2018 19: 30
    +1
    Quote: bober1982
    He was an agent of the royal secret police, collaborated with the gendarmes.
    The joke, of course, comes from the boulder crunches, but every joke, as you know, has its own share of truth.

    Joking as a joke, but how to explain such a zealous attitude of Joseph Vissarionovich to the old Leninist guard, which he so carefully cut out under the root and did not blink an eye. It seems to me that the Generalissimo knew who he was dealing with, so he was so cruel and adamant. In short, the smoking room was right.
  10. Serge72
    Serge72 April 27 2018 10: 15
    +15
    Wrangel became the head of the White Army under pressure from the Entente, which is another clear confirmation of the pro-Western and puppet nature of the white movement.

    Following this logic
    That - HOW the leaders of the RSDLP proceeded to Russia in April 1917, and then concluded the Brest peace and armistice with their curators - is also a confirmation of their puppet, pro-German essence.
  11. 985.560
    985.560 April 27 2018 19: 48
    +5
    And a hundred years ago and now, Chapaev’s supporters were 95 percent. A Wrangel 1-3. So it will be further.
  12. 985.560
    985.560 April 27 2018 20: 04
    +3
    And a hundred years ago and now supporters of Chapaev 95 %%, and Wrangel from 1 to 3.
    I hope so.