Military Review

Washington's zugzwang gunsmith

177
The tragedy that occurred in the veterans house in the city of Yontville (California) caused the intensification of the usual controversy between supporters and opponents of toughening weapon legislation, as well as the usual harsh criticism of those and others against the authorities - local and federal.



Recall, X-year-old Albert Wong, armed with a rifle, a participant in a program to rehabilitate the military who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, shortly before the tragedy, was excluded from participation in the program to cope with the effects of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and took three hostages from the veterans home. Later, all three women, as well as the suspect in the crime, were found dead.

In the context of the ongoing controversy, the National Infantry Association of the USA (NRA), which after each such crime the liberals declare almost the main culprit, redirects the accusations to the authorities.

“The law-abiding members of the NRA have nothing to do with the failure of the school security service, the poor performance of the American mental health service, the failure of the national express check system, or the brutal mistake of the federal and local law enforcement agencies,” the organization noted after the previous tragedy in the Florida school that claimed 17 life man.

In turn, the accusations and criticism, from left and right, make the authorities, both federal and state, take some steps. The effectiveness of which is in advance of doubt.

So, after the aforementioned tragedy, Trump urged to tighten the check of people who sell weapon.

“Regardless of whether we are Republicans or Democrats, we must focus on strengthening the checks on biographical data!” He wrote on Twitter.

However, almost the majority of criminals who committed massacres had an immaculate biography. In addition, not all murderers used legal, officially bought weapons.

In the US, such a number of pistols, rifles, rifles and assault carbines in the hands of the population, that it is not a problem to arm yourself illegally.

Moreover, the authorities are well aware that any toughening of weapons legislation, up to a total ban on weapons, will only aggravate the situation, since it will turn, if not all weapons in the hands of law-abiding citizens, its majority into an illegal one. What eloquently shows the experience of other countries. Moreover, even the legal circulation of weapons in the United States is such that it is simply impossible to track the movement of a great many “barrels”. And, accordingly, to withdraw them is also not realistic.

Incidentally, California, where the crime occurred in the house of veterans, a state with one of the most anti-weapon laws in the United States, which, as we see, did not prevent the killer to realize his plan.

And this is just the technical side of things. Tightening predictably provoke a protest of a significant part of the country's citizens. Which today traditionally do not show great political activity. In addition, it will deal a heavy blow to the interests of the producers and sellers of weapons, ammunition and related products, which occupied a prominent place in the country's economy.

Thus, toughening of the weapon legislation, while it risks causing many problems of a criminal, political and economic nature, will not have a special effect. It is absolutely certain that the president will not be able to boast of a quick solution of the problem, and will not be able to write success in this matter into the asset of his future election campaign.

But at the same time, it is necessary to somehow depict the response to what is happening, if only to avoid accusations of inaction, and not to further aggravate one’s already difficult situation.

So, Trump's requirement to tighten “biography checks”, or the decision of Florida Governor Rick Scott to adopt a local act of raising the age limit for acquiring small arms from 18 years to 21 (for which the NRA has already filed a lawsuit against Scott) rather, to imitation of "tightening". With the help of which, they are trying to satisfy the liberals demanding the "disarmament" of the Americans.

However, even conservative citizens, who stand a mountain behind the Second Amendment to the US Constitution, which guarantees the right to keep and bear arms, do not remain without consolation from the authorities.

So, Trump supported the proposal to arm teachers (as a means of preventing school shootings), and the Governor of Florida provided teachers with the right to conceal weapons in schools, which was strictly forbidden before.

According to the established norm, they will be required to undergo the necessary training and testing. However, the final decision on whether teachers will use the new regional act will be taken by the schools themselves in the state of Florida.

Of course, the idea of ​​entrusting teachers with the tasks that law enforcement agencies cannot cope with looks strange, to say the least. However, in the United States, armed citizens quite often prevent crime, and people who are far from the practice of anti-terror units may find this measure practical. In fact, neutralizing a criminal in a school whose students have been turned hostage requires the highest professionalism that cannot be achieved by “preparing and testing” for teachers. And his absence will inevitably lead to greater sacrifices.

In the context of this decision, now, after the staff of the rehabilitation center has been shot, it will be necessary to arm psychologists working with veterans suffering from PTSD. There, you see, it will be the turn of the sellers of supermarkets, cinema workers, hospital staff, waiters, and so on.

That, obviously, will not contribute to a reduction in the circulation of weapons. And it will further undermine the state monopoly on violence, which has already become a fiction in the United States.

In other words, all that the US authorities can offer in the matter of countering the massacres is an imitation of real steps. Moreover, even these simulations only worsen the situation. The more imitate, the worse and worse the situation.

It is noteworthy that in the US there are quite a few people who are well aware of the causes of what is happening. The fact that the problem is not so much in arms, as in the people who use it, in their mental and spiritual state.

For example, a serious attempt to understand the problem was made by famous director Michael Moore. In his picture Bowling for Columbine, he argues that the level of armed violence is caused, above all, by the atmosphere of fear in American society that distracts people from real problems — social and political — and provokes mistrust and hatred for each other.

In addition, he conducted a direct correlation between mass executions and war crimes committed by American soldiers abroad. In the case of the house of veterans in Yontville, we see confirmation of Moore’s version, the most direct one. Americans who participated in unjust, inhuman wars, learned to kill and with damaged consciousness, use acquired skills at home.

Timothy McVeigh, John Robert Newman, Micah Javier Johnson, Gavin Long, Ivan Lopez, Nidal Hassan - these are some of the names of the American military who committed the massacres of their fellow citizens.

Recall that the American Themis, since the time of the Vietnam War, is doing everything to release the US military from responsibility for war crimes, or at least minimize the punishment. Not surprisingly, this gives rise to a feeling of impunity, which leads to the fact that aggression, in the end, turns against compatriots.

However, reducing the cause of armed violence solely to the problems of US external aggression and the lawlessness of the US military would be an obvious simplification of the issue.

It is important that mass executions are nothing more than one of the symptoms of the illness of American society. And his treatment requires a fundamental change in the very foundations and principles of the existence of the society and the US state. Which, of course, looks unrealistic.
As a result, American leaders simply try not to seriously touch the problem of armed violence, which is increasingly threatening to form, in the belief that within the existing political system, any step aimed at resolving it will only worsen the situation. This position in chess is called zugzwang. However, if chess cannot be abandoned, the US authorities try to remain in place, portraying in the eyes of the public efforts to prevent mass violence.
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 14 March 2018 06: 24
    +5
    If they hadn’t had so many weapons in their hands, there wouldn’t be a problem .. And so they are worthless.
    1. Titsen
      Titsen 14 March 2018 06: 36
      +2
      Quote: 210ox
      .. And so they are worthless.


      Yes, I agree.

      Mr. Colt called the odds ...
      1. siberalt
        siberalt 14 March 2018 09: 02
        +12
        For Americans, having a personal weapon has developed historically and for them it is quite natural, like circumcision among Jews or Muslims. And violence with the use of weapons is dictated not by its presence, but by the organization of the national ideology, upbringing and individual psyche of the individual. winked
        1. DMB_95
          DMB_95 14 March 2018 16: 25
          +2
          Quote: siberalt
          For Americans, having a personal weapon has developed historically and for them it is quite natural

          To carry or have weapons was a historical custom in many countries, including and in Russia. It’s just that the United States appeared several centuries later than most modern states, that is, they still live in their period of the Middle Ages, but with all the attributes of the modern world - technology, etc. Maybe that’s why they are trying to impose their “values” on the whole world. Each Empire went through this period, but without nuclear, digital and space technology. If they think that this is their advantage, they are greatly mistaken. Of all the Empires, two survived to the 21st century - Russia and China, and the United States gained this status only at the beginning of the 20th century due to the depletion of all then Empires in the 1st World War. Then another 2 World .. And the United States was overseas.
          1. dzvero
            dzvero 14 March 2018 19: 35
            +1
            Historical custom is one thing, and the law prescribed in the constitution is another. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I have not heard about this in the constitutions of other modern states. And the rest you are right.
            1. Pingo
              Pingo 15 March 2018 00: 17
              0
              this is the 2nd constitutional amendment that some are trying to repeal
              in most other countries, it is simply permitted, as is the right to a car.
      2. gladcu2
        gladcu2 14 March 2018 18: 21
        +1
        Competition goes into direct confrontation.
        Fear and not faith in the future ...

        This is capitalism.
    2. max702
      max702 14 March 2018 12: 43
      +2
      Naturally, the US state institution categorically does not need weapons in the hands of the population, like any other state institution .. But in the USA, everything has gone very far, and it’s impossible to turn citizens into defenseless sheep ..
    3. meandr51
      meandr51 14 March 2018 14: 19
      +9
      Not connected in any way. Connected with the sadism of the Americans. In Russia, every 30th person on the street wears a hidden legal or illegal pistol. In the hands of 5 million legal and as many illegal trunks. But such excesses as in the USA are practically absent. And in the USSR they were almost nonexistent.
      So the bureaucracy does not solve this problem.
      In the United States, I think allowing school staff (university) and adult students to carry weapons would reduce the problem. Since the criminals would not even try to shoot the citizens, expecting a bullet from either side. It is no coincidence that these executions take place only where carrying weapons is prohibited. Everyone except criminals. It is possible for them.
      And now the criminal quietly takes an arsenal with him, eliminates one security guard at the entrance and takes an advantageous position or just rushes about the school and shoots. What the fuck special forces? He will only arrive in an hour when it is all over. But a young police friend with a gun could well have reassured this at the beginning of the show, reducing the number of victims. There is nothing to be afraid of arming citizens. Normal 1000 times more than nuts. They will quickly shoot them.
      1. svd-xnumx
        svd-xnumx 14 March 2018 19: 52
        +1
        But a young police friend with a gun could well have reassured this at the beginning of the show, reducing the number of victims.
        And the second “young police friend”, having not figured out the situation and having seen a man with a weapon, can even drill holes in his head for such an activist. And then a third “young police friend” will draw who knew for example which of the shooters is the criminal and he will accept the second “young police friend” for an accomplice, he will do bo-bo. And all this will result in a general skirmish. By allowing teachers to carry weapons, they will be the first victims, and it’s not realistic to hide the constant carrying of weapons by staff and adult students.
        1. Conserp
          Conserp 14 March 2018 22: 53
          +5
          A typical set of meaningless and illogical liberoid stamps built on juggling and juggling.

          Well, semantic nonsense is organically supplemented by illiterate Russian.
    4. reservist
      reservist 14 March 2018 14: 19
      +5
      the reason is not only and not so much in the quantity of weapons ...
      in Switzerland, it seems that even 8 million people are not recruited, but something is not heard from the mass executions
      According to official statistics, as of November 30, 2010, 654 samples of military weapons were stored at the Swiss home. In total, 562–2,3 million firearms are in private hands.

      topwar.ru/116785-armiya-shveycarii-bronepoezd-na-
      zapasnom-puti.html
    5. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 14 March 2018 15: 44
      +1
      But what about the militants will now write and shoot? If they seize weapons in the SGA! What will all kinds of terminators destroy the American population?
    6. Conserp
      Conserp 14 March 2018 22: 50
      +2
      Quote: 210ox
      If they didn’t have so many weapons in their hands, there would not be a problem.

      Illiterate nonsense.
    7. mac789
      mac789 15 March 2018 08: 57
      0
      American citizens have too many weapons ... The whole problem is in the arms ...
      We live in an age of psychotechnology. All sorts of psychotechnics, NLP, hypnosis, Kashpirovsky ...
      And if you think about it? ...
      Previously, one of the most powerful psychological blockages was the self-preservation system of a person. It was extremely difficult to get around it with the help of psychotechnics ...
      And then the conveyor appeared
  2. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 14 March 2018 06: 59
    +4
    Tragedy? But these tragedies are repeated almost weekly and have become a regularity of American life. Naturally, no one will refuse from the 2nd amendment, and therefore the Americans will continue to shoot each other.
    1. novel66
      novel66 14 March 2018 09: 18
      +5
      tragedy? if they all shoot each other. maybe it will be nice
      1. meandr51
        meandr51 14 March 2018 14: 21
        +3
        Normal is simply not allowed to shoot abnormal. Otherwise, it would all be over long ago. Because normal thousand times more.
  3. Cxnumx
    Cxnumx 14 March 2018 07: 16
    +1
    I wonder how ours, who advocate a freer firearms, will justify?) probably something like "if each of the nurse had a trunk - this would not have happened" ...
    1. Serge Gorely
      Serge Gorely 14 March 2018 07: 21
      +15
      [quote = K0schey] I wonder how ours, advocating for a more free firearm, will justify?) probably something like "if each of the nurse had a trunk - this would not have happened" ... "Free firearm" in Moldova and Estonia. The crime rate is lower than in Russia. And yes. In Switzerland - well, you are in the know.
      1. Cxnumx
        Cxnumx 14 March 2018 07: 26
        +6
        Quote: Serge Gorely
        "Free firearm" in Moldova and Estonia. The crime rate is lower than in Russia. And yes. In Switzerland - well, you are in the know.

        Yes, yes, I know. also up to date on the topic:
        In Rostov on Thursday morning, December 28, a man shot his wife with a gun and then committed suicide. It is known that the deceased was fond of hunting and had weapons at home. According to some information, the killing could have been motivated by jealousy. The couple left a minor child.
        those. not crazy, if there weren’t a gun at hand - not the fact that he would have stabbed / scored it - it’s many times harder mentally and even physically. and then he freaked out, and hi turned out at hand.
        1. Pingo
          Pingo 14 March 2018 08: 55
          +5
          because of such cases, it should not be at hand, but in a safe in accordance with Russian law.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 14 March 2018 11: 38
            +1
            Do you personally go to check everyone?
            1. Pingo
              Pingo 14 March 2018 11: 49
              0
              they don’t understand here
              if you bring to the attention of everyone, they’ll hide themselves
              1. Korax71
                Korax71 14 March 2018 14: 25
                +1
                To do this, there are district officers and licensing system employees. It just so happens that they put a girl on the position of manager responsible for control, who isn’t very willing to check and check. roofs. if you meet your local policeman, look carefully at the index and middle finger of the pen from the handle. work to prevent such cases among citizens is not carried out not because of a lack of desire, but because of a lack of time.
                1. Pingo
                  Pingo 15 March 2018 00: 21
                  0
                  if you inform everyone why it should be in a safe and not in plain sight.
        2. would
          would 14 March 2018 10: 53
          +13
          - not the fact that he would have stabbed / scored it - it is many times harder mentally and even physically


          The statistics disagree with you, most of the murders are committed with the help of household life, and not firearms.
          1. Cxnumx
            Cxnumx 14 March 2018 11: 47
            +2
            Quote: rait
            The statistics disagree with you, most of the murders are committed with the help of household life, and not firearms.

            But is there any statistics on those who committed the “most killings” with a gunshot? for some reason I’m sure that the vast majority of cases weren’t in principle.
            1. would
              would 14 March 2018 12: 05
              +3
              Right now there are no official statistics from the Ministry of Internal Affairs, our Ministry of Internal Affairs categorically does not like statistics and for a reason. But there is media data, including their assessment

              According to media reports (there are no official statistics on this), a kitchen knife is a crime tool in about half of domestic murders - in a drunken brawl or during a family quarrel.


              https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/1680385

              https://www.vedomosti.ru/opinion/articles/2016/11
              / 03/663453-podschet-ubiistv

              They directly write about these killings and know where the knife was and where the gunshot. And the news feeds confirm this once again, in Khabarovsk, almost every news about the murder is a knife, a bottle or a stool and a drunken brawl on the hut. No gunshot has been featured for years!


              And it has remained unchanged since 2005

              https://www.newsru.com/crime/06feb2006/mur_100.ht
              ml

              The main tool for domestic killings today is a regular kitchen knife, which, as a rule, is always at hand. Often, bottles are used.
              1. Cxnumx
                Cxnumx 14 March 2018 12: 25
                +4
                Quote: rait
                No gunshot has been featured for years!

                Yes, this is because almost no one has this gunshot (only 3%, and even there are several trunks for one, that is, in reality even less), and this is why he does not appear.
                1. Okolotochny
                  Okolotochny 14 March 2018 12: 42
                  +1
                  That's right, colleague. There are no gunners, so there are no statistics, there are no cases. Will be - for cases with kitchen knives add firearms.
                2. Pingo
                  Pingo 14 March 2018 12: 43
                  +1
                  because a bottle or knife is closer
                3. would
                  would 14 March 2018 13: 40
                  +2
                  What about your

                  not the fact that he would have stabbed / scored it - it is many times harder mentally and even physically.


                  ?

                  Indeed, if you believe it, then this should not be, it should not be such that some drunks are clearly not full of health and physical strength, they kill each other simply in incredible quantities. After all, it is "several times harder morally and even physically."

                  Somehow your version does not fit with reality. After all, if everything was so, then there would not have been so many murders with knives, bottles and stools, it’s “difficult both physically and mentally”.

                  And the thing is that in reality, shooting is certainly no harder morally than slashing with a knife, and this and that is a deliberate murder. Physically, too, it would not be harder to say, for stabbing with a kitchen knife, special physical strength is not required as well as for a cutting blow. Including for a fatal injection or cutting blow. And even a teenager without a mustache can kill with numerous blows to the head. In all cases, strength is not important; action and willingness to go for it are important. And the tool is the third thing, the trunk of aggression and the desire to kill does not add by itself.

                  The same thing with the news about the shot wife. Absolutely the fact that there wouldn’t be a weapon, she would be killed with a knife or anything at hand, statistics prove this. A bunch of such wives are clogged with trite fists without any "it's much harder morally and even physically."
                  1. Cxnumx
                    Cxnumx 14 March 2018 18: 09
                    0
                    Quote: rait
                    What about your

                    you compare what people in principle kill each other so than they are killing. people always killed, but it’s easier with a firearm.
                    so my "not the fact that he would have stabbed / scored it - it’s many times harder mentally and even physically." All right
                    1. would
                      would 14 March 2018 23: 45
                      +2
                      It isn’t easier to do this with a firebolt, as the statistics of domestic violence prove when it is done in one or two stabs. So with your

                      not the fact that he would have stabbed / scored it - it is many times harder mentally and even physically


                      The banal criminal reality comes into conflict.
                      1. Cxnumx
                        Cxnumx 15 March 2018 03: 32
                        0
                        Quote: rait
                        It isn’t easier to do this with a firebolt, as the statistics of domestic violence prove when it is done in one or two stabs. So with your

                        give me statistics on how many cases of murder the killers had a firearm, but they did not use it. I remind you that the number of gunshots in the hands of the population is ~ 3% (and in fact even less, so the owner of the gunshots have not one barrel, but several)
                    2. Pingo
                      Pingo 15 March 2018 04: 24
                      0
                      owners of registered weapons in Russia at least 25 million, the number of units of registered weapons is naturally even greater
                      already on the basis of this one the firearm is not in the first place, even if it is
                      1. Cxnumx
                        Cxnumx 15 March 2018 06: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Pingo
                        owners of registered weapons in Russia at least 25 million, the number of units of registered weapons is naturally even greater

                        where does this data come from? in 2015 there were 4,4 million sort of like
                    3. Pingo
                      Pingo 15 March 2018 04: 37
                      0
                      it is easier to do with a firearm during a database, and muzzles are beaten by calculating or not calculating the force of impact, or they are specially killed, less often stabbing.
                    4. Pingo
                      Pingo 15 March 2018 06: 49
                      +1
                      From the Internet.
                      In 2015, 4,4 million visited permits (see table below), feel free to multiply this number by at least 5
          2. wasjasibirjac
            wasjasibirjac 14 March 2018 16: 19
            0
            the strangest weapon in my practice is a metal pan stand. firearms since 1993 was 1 (one) time - the local godfather at the fifth point was spoiled.
        3. EvilLion
          EvilLion 14 March 2018 11: 42
          0
          Actually a long-known fact. Extreme forms of mentally inappropriate behavior are very short-term, and the mere presence or absence of weapons at such moments is a critical factor. And the number of suicides increases from the availability of weapons. Not items suitable for use as weapons, namely weapons, as a murder tool, for which this is the only function. Killing oneself, or even jumping out of a window, is much more difficult than tearing apart a skull.
          1. Pingo
            Pingo 14 March 2018 12: 00
            +1
            in sight it is closed or not, it is intended for defense or victory
            there are many other easier ways than this, in general the one who commits suicide without special need, this is an insecure wimp.
          2. meandr51
            meandr51 14 March 2018 14: 31
            +6
            And, nevertheless, most weapons are not used for suicide. Weapons cause the death of units, in extreme cases, dozens. Cars, vodka and stress - hundreds of thousands. But this is not customary to talk about. It is customary to solve all problems by banning weapons. Criminals to the joy. Because they have an advantage.
        4. Serge Gorely
          Serge Gorely 14 March 2018 12: 03
          +5
          Quote: K0
          Quote: Serge Gorely
          "Free firearm" in Moldova and Estonia. The crime rate is lower than in Russia. And yes. In Switzerland - well, you are in the know.

          Yes, yes, I know. also up to date on the topic:
          In Rostov on Thursday morning, December 28, a man shot his wife with a gun and then committed suicide. It is known that the deceased was fond of hunting and had weapons at home. According to some information, the killing could have been motivated by jealousy. The couple left a minor child.
          those. not crazy, if there weren’t a gun at hand - not the fact that he would have stabbed / scored it - it’s many times harder mentally and even physically. and then he freaked out, and hi turned out at hand.

          Ah, I get it. Hunting societies disperse. To ban commercial hunting. To produce axes, kitchen knives only with license plates, to issue only after passing two-year courses!
          1. Pingo
            Pingo 14 March 2018 12: 46
            +4
            Quote: Serge Gorely
            To release axes, kitchen knives only with license plates,

            blunt, flabby and rubberized laughing
          2. Cxnumx
            Cxnumx 14 March 2018 12: 55
            +1
            Quote: Serge Gorely
            Ah, I get it. Hunting societies disperse. To ban commercial hunting. To produce axes, kitchen knives only with license plates, to issue only after passing two-year courses!

            about! I can do that too:
            all on the machine and a little who turned sharply in your direction, yelling "SELF-DEFENSE!" and the queue of this reptile.
        5. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 14 March 2018 14: 01
          +2
          Every house has a hammer. But not everyone hits him in the head with his wife, or mother-in-law.
        6. Alexanast
          Alexanast 14 March 2018 14: 09
          +4
          Quote: K0
          the man shot his wife with a gun and then committed suicide. It is known that the deceased was fond of hunting and had weapons at home.


          That's it, "Collect all the guns and burn them."
    2. Alexanast
      Alexanast 14 March 2018 14: 05
      +3
      But...

      Quote: K0
      "if every nurse had a barrel


      then ...

      Quote: K0
      this would not have happened "...
    3. Alexanast
      Alexanast 14 March 2018 14: 07
      +3
      Quote: K0
      I wonder how our people who advocate a freer firearm will justify?


      But...

      Quote: K0
      "if every nurse had a barrel


      then ...

      Quote: K0
      this would not have happened "...


      Something like this...
    4. meandr51
      meandr51 14 March 2018 14: 22
      +1
      Take a look at the statistics of Moldova and the Baltic states. Everything has long been clear.
  4. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 14 March 2018 07: 50
    +3
    Weapons and violence are simply made for the United States. Moreover, the United States grew up on violence and Colt played a much larger role than a kind word. Therefore, greetings from inadequacies will continue indefinitely. It is impossible to educate a nation in the spirit of cannibalism and naively believe that you will not be eaten.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 14 March 2018 08: 32
      +1
      A nation of criminals, adventurers, scammers. Well, and what do we want to see?
    2. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 14 March 2018 08: 36
      +5
      Colt, in general, was originally presented in American culture as a way of protecting oneself and one's family from criminal attacks.
      1. novel66
        novel66 14 March 2018 09: 20
        +4
        Amerovsky style - to pervert the originally bright idea
        1. Korax71
          Korax71 14 March 2018 14: 37
          +4
          Not quite right. Look at the statistics of the states, and there are about 40 of them where the purchase and carrying of weapons is allowed. The number of serious crimes there is several times lower than in the states where it is prohibited. And the fact that the author of the article pulled out the news and inflated it to the size of an apocalypse, well this is the vision of this person of this problem. If you wish, you can search the Internet and find no fewer cases, for example, in December of that year, an EMERCOM employee opened fire from a window of a house in the village of passers-by, killing 4 people. But the arrow failed only after entering armored vehicles. In Russia, the number of crimes involving the use of a firearm increased by 11% from 16 to 30 years, given that we do not have a free sale of weapons. We are confidently ahead of America in the number of people killed by 100 thousand. It’s not customary for us to raise such topics in the media. hi
  5. andrewkor
    andrewkor 14 March 2018 07: 51
    0
    Get the barrel in the United States once to spit (see "Brother-2"), you can take it from the policeman, buy from the mafia, rob it.
  6. Gloomy
    Gloomy 14 March 2018 08: 13
    +20
    It seems that the site is called "Military Review" and is intended primarily for men, and in the comments some snotty institutes moralize "but there wouldn’t be a gun - I wouldn’t dare to kill," "fewer weapons on hand - less violence." It is not the weapon that kills, but the one who holds it.
    Civilian weapons, in turn, are a multi-billion dollar market, hundreds of thousands of jobs and significant tax revenues to the budget. This is very good money, and not our poor country to refuse it.
    And yes, there’s another question for snotty moralizers: when you are shot dead by a cheated Chechen, whom you “didn’t look at” from an award-winning gilded pistol, will you die with a sense of moral superiority? After all, it’s not like the rotting “Murakans”, here is the kingdom of the law and “my police are protecting me”.
    1. Baikal
      Baikal 14 March 2018 09: 39
      +2
      Find yourself a girl, become a valuable specialist, a worthy member of society, play sports - and you will be kinder and smarter)) Probably.
      To tell that all the problems in society from the fact that there is no gunshot in the free sale is an excuse for the outcasts)
      1. Gloomy
        Gloomy 14 March 2018 10: 06
        +9
        Find yourself a girl, become a valuable specialist, a worthy member of society, play sports - and you will be kinder and smarter))

        All this already exists.
        To tell that all the problems in society from the fact that there is no gunshot in the free sale is an excuse for the outcasts)

        Where did you see it in my words? There is nothing about
        free sale
        or that
        all problems of society
        due to the lack of a similar second amendment to the Constitution of the Russian Federation.
        My comment is that the civilian arms market is VERY good money: the production of weapons, ammunition and related products, their sale in the domestic and foreign markets, the service sector (shooting galleries, training centers, sports sections) - all this can become and will become sooner a substantial increase in GDP, not to mention the psychological consequences, such as a decrease in the level of professional violent crime, and at the same time nervousness of the population, increased tolerance for other people, courtesy and courtesy, as well as legal: the emergence of real guarantees of the right to life, the inviolability of the home and property (self-defense, self-defense).
        As well as the fact that discrimination of 90% of citizens is not good, not good, when weapons of hidden carrying can be legally owned by a dumb status Chechen or businessman who paid "who needs it" to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, or illegally from a bandit or the same a criminal businessman (often the same thing), but a law-abiding mentally healthy citizen cannot be, because slaves are not supposed to.
        But this is not about you, right? You need to sit quietly, below the grass, and then maybe you will not be touched by a stunned Chechen / bandit / "silovik". Well, or be one of them, right?
        1. Pingo
          Pingo 14 March 2018 10: 10
          +2
          Do you think he found it for himself? moreover, with such advice against a gilded TT,
          and even with champagne bottles it happens differently, or in supermarkets, when the servants of the people realize that the one who does not have a pistol is the one and the servant.
          such advice is usually given by those who are distributing thieves against the slaves of these very trunks.
        2. Lebedev
          Lebedev 14 March 2018 14: 19
          0
          I will support you with both hands!
        3. Baikal
          Baikal 14 March 2018 17: 44
          +1
          Stupid gentlemen.
          Just imagine your apartment building and then - that at least half of the apartments are pistols, carbines, sniper rifles, etc. In some - a few. Particularly gifted - whole cabinets are clogged.
          Will you be calmer?)
          Ahh, yes ... well, you yourself have a "trunk"!))
          Fuck the world)
          1. Gloomy
            Gloomy 14 March 2018 18: 52
            +2
            Just imagine your apartment building and then - that at least half of the apartments are pistols, carbines, sniper rifles, etc.

            I will be calmer, because I will be absolutely sure that I am surrounded by adults, mature, responsible people. hi
      2. Serge Gorely
        Serge Gorely 14 March 2018 12: 08
        +6
        Quote: Baikal
        Find yourself a girl, become a valuable specialist, a worthy member of society, play sports - and you will be kinder and smarter)) Probably.
        To tell that all the problems in society from the fact that there is no gunshot in the free sale is an excuse for the outcasts)

        Well yes. And to say that all the problems in society from the fact that there is a free sale of a firearm is an excuse for idiots.
      3. meandr51
        meandr51 14 March 2018 14: 25
        +1
        It was you who decided that your opponents believe that "all the problems are from the lack of a gunshot"? Well, live with it. The rest think more adequately. Do not attribute to people your thoughts. People are much smarter than you think.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 14 March 2018 11: 36
      +1
      When a cheated Chechen shoots at you, weapons will not help you. No need to ring out.

      Civilian weapons, in turn, are a multi-billion dollar market, hundreds of thousands of jobs and significant tax revenues to the budget. This is very good money, and not our poor country to refuse it.


      An economist, damn it, to occupy a bunch of people with the production of glands that will gather dust in cabinets, yes, that’s very correct. Why work, for example, as a builder, to produce something useful when you can do pistols.
      1. Gloomy
        Gloomy 14 March 2018 11: 49
        +6
        An economist, damn it, to occupy a bunch of people with the production of glands that will gather dust in cabinets, yes, that’s very correct. Why work, for example, as a builder, to produce something useful when you can do pistols.

        So it can be said about the entire military-industrial complex. Which enterprises, in terms of the production of small arms and ammunition, could also be less burdensome for the budget if the arms market were more free in Russia.
      2. Pingo
        Pingo 14 March 2018 12: 02
        +2
        Quote: EvilLion
        When a cheated Chechen shoots at you, weapons will not help you.

        jam it?
    3. AID.S
      AID.S 14 March 2018 17: 09
      0
      Quote: Cheerful
      when you are shot dead by a cheated Chechen whom you “didn’t look at” from a premium gilded pistol, will you die with a sense of moral superiority?

      Are you already writing from the next world?
  7. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 14 March 2018 08: 35
    +14
    Another hoplophobic note. Honestly, you get tired of repeating common truth — most of the massacres are committed in the so-called guns-free zone, that is, zones where carrying weapons is prohibited. A criminal who is going to carry out a mass execution of people, as a rule, has mental problems, but he’s far from being a fool - he understands that in a place where other people are armed, his attempt to realize his plan will be quickly suppressed by a lead vaccination of 9/11,45 caliber, XNUMX mm. And most likely fatal.
    1. novel66
      novel66 14 March 2018 09: 22
      0
      deserter needle has a wonderful caliber - 12.6
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 14 March 2018 13: 39
        +2
        It's right. But 12,6 is already an "elephant" caliber, guaranteed to incapacitate a person, regardless of where they were hit. A very cruel thing for civilian weapons, I think.
        1. novel66
          novel66 14 March 2018 14: 35
          0
          Well. we, as it were, would have to be guaranteed to disable the attacker, especially if he wasn’t alone. you cannot scare with weapons
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 14 March 2018 11: 27
      +4
      And where do you come from. A normal person has not carried weapons for decades, no matter in the zones free of him or not. And the shootout will only increase the number of corpses.

      There is a simple rule, if it is not possible to guarantee improper and dangerous handling even for a small number of users, then the ban is imposed for everyone. This is easier than checking everyone, making mistakes and eliminating the consequences of the actions of a negligible number of loonies, creating a disproportionate amount of problems. For some reason, only a person who has passed the chain of selections and specials can fly an airplane. training, and this is considered normal. They won’t deliver to the machine without putting in a ton of things, otherwise they’ll cut off their fingers and will have to answer. But to keep trunks at home, for some reason, almost anyone can.
      1. Pingo
        Pingo 14 March 2018 12: 03
        +3
        How do you even serve in the army?
      2. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 14 March 2018 13: 43
        +7
        Quote: EvilLion
        And where do you come from.

        Out of nowhere. Just us, unlike the crying institutes:
        1) do not give a damn about the safety of yourself and your families;
        2) We are well aware that the police are not omnipresent and the need for defense against an armed criminal may arise far from the police;
        3) we are not afraid to bear responsibility for our actions and rely on our strength instead of handouts from the state;
        4) we perfectly understand the danger of weapons and the need to comply with the rules of storage and handling;
        5) We advocate the possibility of acquiring weapons after learning the rules for handling them.
        1. novel66
          novel66 14 March 2018 14: 33
          0
          everything would be fine. but with us, where you can buy any help, the number of loonies with weapons can be disproportionately large
          1. Pingo
            Pingo 15 March 2018 00: 27
            0
            then you need to put things in order in this system
            and how do they get into the army?
            1. novel66
              novel66 15 March 2018 07: 14
              0
              more serious selection for the army
              1. Pingo
                Pingo 15 March 2018 07: 56
                +1
                do not make me laugh. but for those who were in the army on a civilian weapon is possible?
                1. novel66
                  novel66 15 March 2018 09: 29
                  0
                  I haven’t even started to laugh yet, I know perfectly well. how they receive certificates from a psychiatrist, and recently the son passed only an ascribed commission - heaven and earth. I think one of the criteria (not the only one!) should be military service. shpak initially has a misconception about weapons
                  1. Pingo
                    Pingo 15 March 2018 09: 32
                    0
                    from personal experience?
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 15 March 2018 09: 34
                      0
                      naturally! yes
                      1. Pingo
                        Pingo 15 March 2018 09: 56
                        0
                        and what grounds were there to doubt the experience of a psychiatrist? did he "miss" you? wink laughing
              2. would
                would 15 March 2018 09: 46
                0
                Ahahaahahha! A smart joke, lying under the table! laughing

                I know very well how medical commissions go and I can safely say that very often there is no real selection there. From my military registration and enlistment office just a year ago, a young man was called up with a terrible hemorrhoids with whom he was supposed to be on the table at the surgeon, but not in the army, grade 4 with complications. They called for the military commissar’s wording: “He can serve in the communications troops!” But the communications forces were clearly not aware of this. It all ended to the naught with a lost court where the judge for a long time could not understand what it was and how it even happened. And this is not the first one at our military registration and enlistment office, and I’m more than sure not the last time. The main thing is to call, and if something happens in the army, then purely legally any disease found during the service is received during the service, that is, did not exist on the draft board.

                Well, a check with a psychiatrist who always begins with the question "How are you feeling?" and ends with “well, go” is comparatively not circus.
                1. novel66
                  novel66 15 March 2018 09: 49
                  0
                  I won’t say about hemorrhoids. (mine doesn’t), but they wrote the test for an hour and a half
                  1. would
                    would 15 March 2018 09: 57
                    0
                    A test is a professional selection, it is written and decoded by his psychiatrist girl. I can also tell a lot about him, just like all psychological tests, he is not perfect, but imperfection is superimposed on the psycho-girl. Also from recent:

                    The draftee wrote this test and something there the psychiatrist did not like. She sends him for an additional examination to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist talks to the conscript, sees no problems and sends back with a document on full mental health. The psycho-girl says that the test cannot be mistaken (she, too, respectively) and sends the guy back to the psychiatrist, he again returns with a certificate. And so it was four times. The fifth psychiatrist asked a direct question, “What the hell were you sent to me for the fifth time ?!”, but the conscript told everything. Then there was the following “I never wrote such nonsense in my life, but they won’t leave you otherwise” and the psychiatrist, after these words, put the guy a psychiatric diagnosis through the stump of the deck without imposing any restrictions (there are also relatively many of them) and only after that I lagged behind him with the words: "Well, I said that the test does not lie!".

                    Well, I won’t even mention the fact that in a number of military registration and enlistment offices the norm “On the form, rewrite according to this model” will not be mentioned. If something happens in part, then it is impossible to ask the military registration and enlistment office, but if he does not get a plan, then very much so.
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 15 March 2018 10: 02
                      0
                      well buddy. at least some system, and a reference from the "psycho" - just go to the doctor
                      1. would
                        would 15 March 2018 10: 06
                        0
                        So I about the same! A mark on mental health is even put by default, and many where directly select professional sabotage. One of the reasons for this is that it is impossible to adequately assess a person’s mental health in a single examination or survey, at least use any tests, for this survey you can identify only severe acute mental disorders and no more. Well, the tests are generally a separate conversation ... the same sort of like the still used color test of Lusher.

                        But the way some military enlistment offices are recruiting an appeal, as for me, is the basis for returning the article "wrecking." Because when the army finds out that the conscript has hemorrhoids, hypertension, scoliosis of the second degree with back pain, etc., the state pays him compensation "for the disease received during the military service" and sends him home in the form for which, in fact, it was paid from the budget . I know the conscripts who did not even really get to the unit, one of them, just a hypertensive person, received about twenty thousand rubles in compensation and was written off. Twenty thousand rubles !!!

                        I see this even now in our draft board which is steadily completing the plan for the autumn draft in late October and early November.
                      2. Pingo
                        Pingo 16 March 2018 03: 20
                        0
                        Did the doctor know that you had already served in the army? where did they give you weapons (or didn’t)?
                    2. Pingo
                      Pingo 16 March 2018 03: 23
                      0
                      how do you know what a single test is impossible?
                      why did you decide that you had only one test?
                      weapons in the army gave you immediately after the test in the military enlistment office?
                      in short, do not consider yourself smarter in this matter of the same psychologists.
                      tests on drug addiction are still being conducted on a civilian, have you not known or forgotten about this?
                      1. would
                        would 16 March 2018 07: 26
                        0
                        So many questions

                        1. From there, my life and profession are directly related to the diagnosis of mental illness.
                        2. Why did you decide that I had only one test?
                        3. If you knew the materiel, you would know that some people are absolutely not officially given weapons in the army.
                        4. From now on, in more detail, in what region are conscripts tested in a narcologist?
                    3. Pingo
                      Pingo 16 March 2018 07: 38
                      0
                      Well, so much has been written:
                      1. Do this yourself in a medical facility?
                      2. Why did they write what is impossible for one?
                      3. Explain, he was given even at the NVP
                      4. civilians, I don’t know about the military now
                      1. would
                        would 16 March 2018 08: 38
                        0
                        1. No. My task is to identify such personnel and, if necessary, send them to medical facilities, if necessary, provide assistance on the spot, the specialty is not even medical, but it is very overlapping and requires specific medical knowledge.
                        2. Because at the medical commission on appeal one test is carried out (somewhere their local know-how is connected, the same Lusher test, but we usually have one "professional selection") and one survey by a psychiatrist that often passes as I described. That is in no way. All. Although something about a person’s mental health can be said only after a stationary psychiatric examination, even a number of diseases may not be detected on it, and the established diagnosis may turn out to be incorrect.
                        3. I explain. There is Neuropsychiatric Stability in abbreviated form NPU, it is determined including with the very professional selection. There are four categories in total, persons from the fourth are directly prohibited from performing weapons-related services. That is, for example, if a person with the fourth category of non-governmental educational institution fell into the army, then he will not be allowed to guard. And commanders away from sin are likely to give a shovel in their hands instead of AK. “Most likely” means that they always did this to me. What specific order this is regulated for right now is not ready to write, I don’t remember.
                        4. And here are civilians if in this thread the issue is discussed with reference specifically to the call?
                    4. Pingo
                      Pingo 17 March 2018 05: 07
                      0
                      1. specific medical knowledge from military doctors, including psychologists, not from the personnel department,
                      2. “no way” - see point 1, it’s stationary when it’s judicial,
                      3. I don’t remember that girls before taking weapons in the shooting gallery at the shooting gallery passed tests for NPU
                      4. The branch began with hoplophobia, and the purchase of civilian certificates continued.
                      1. would
                        would 17 March 2018 06: 25
                        0
                        1. Study the mathematical part, psychologists are not military doctors and generally medical workers. The psychologist is not specially medical, they are not trained to work with mentally ill people, they have no right to diagnose and prescribe treatment. In Russia, alas, the specialty of a psychologist is for the most part not yet scientific. Unlike psychiatrists and psychotherapists who are so eager to challenge psycho-deaf people. Well, from the "human resources", thanks, have fun. I will put up with the personnel department good

                        2. Again wrong. A stationary examination can be carried out and is being carried out without any trial, simply upon the fact of the patient's admission to a specialized institution.

                        3. And all because it is worth distinguishing between the abolished NVP and the appeal discussed in this thread.
                    5. Pingo
                      Pingo 17 March 2018 06: 49
                      0
                      1. i.e. "not medical, not scientific, and not a specialty at all"? medical with a bias in science, a psychologist can examine, a psychiatrist prescribes treatment for a patient, a psychotherapist treats,
                      2. when, upon the fact of a hit, the examination has already been conducted (not judicial).
                      3. costs why not right away? if rifled weapons were given on it back in the USSR, in it, by the way, smooth weapons were sold until the 1970s simply by passport. or we will cancel the NVP, but will we introduce the Rosguard? laughing
                      1. would
                        would 17 March 2018 06: 57
                        0
                        1. As I said, it is worth studying the mat. Well, or show me a medical degree in psychology, yeah. It is especially interesting how the psychiatrist prescribes this treatment, and the therapist treats it.
                        2. Yeah, the ambulance drove out, took the patient and carried out an examination on the way to Durkee. Cool story.
                        3. Then what is it different time and different procedures.
                    6. Pingo
                      Pingo 17 March 2018 07: 11
                      0
                      1. It is worth googling about it. a psychologist can examine, but the examination is already psychiatric.
                      2. upon arrival to the call,
                      3. but the people are one, and it was. then what uncomfortable facts.
                      1. would
                        would 17 March 2018 07: 34
                        0
                        1. You really should google it. The psychologist has neither education nor the right to be examined, he is not a medical professional. By the way, I also say that I am not officially engaged in surveys.
                        2. Examination of the express method to call! The Nobel Prize has not yet received for such know-how? And then psychiatrists are tormented with what diagnosis to put to a patient who has been in a fool for a year now, and here, upon arrival, and an ambulance team! Do not share the secret?
                        3. But I am not talking about the people.
                    7. Pingo
                      Pingo 17 March 2018 07: 51
                      0
                      1. themselves wrote above about multiple additional examination of a guy by a psychiatrist after examination by a psychologist.
                      2. they make out which one. should an ambulance pick up a passerby, or not pick up a patient?
                      3. And you about the people (such a trifle) and the comparison of one with the other, if the girls indiscriminately could, then why did the former soldiers become impossible after the selection?
                      1. would
                        would 17 March 2018 08: 13
                        0
                        1. Do not confuse the examination and what happened there with a psychologist. The psychologist had a test and, by the decision of the psychologist, the guy was sent for an examination to a psychiatrist, but the psychologist himself did not examine anyone. Actually, even the surgeon has no legal right to conduct an examination at military registration and enlistment offices, not a single doctor of the draft board conducts examinations or makes diagnoses. Prohibited by law.
                        2. The ambulance is arriving now the most ordinary, psychiatric teams "optimized." Previously, even a psychiatric ambulance did not conduct any examinations because it was impossible in almost 99% of cases.

                        3. The oath is taken with discharged weapons and without cartridges.
                    8. Pingo
                      Pingo 17 March 2018 08: 04
                      0
                      such soldiers who have not passed the NVU take the oath with weapons in their hands or where?
                    9. Pingo
                      Pingo 17 March 2018 08: 32
                      0
                      1. Why are they then legally drinking tea and coffee? add. with or without sugar?
                      2. always come professionals, with the necessary equipment.
                      3. at the shooting range, still begin to ride with blanks, then this is not an oath, but they also say you can’t grind bayonets,
                    10. Pingo
                      Pingo 17 March 2018 08: 48
                      0
                      the psychologist has a medical examination there, like other doctors, without the right to make a diagnosis, who is behind the psychiatrist who wrote something to the guy from the fifth time, after which he legally became ill and got registered, after which problems even arise in the citizen with car rights and much more.
                      1. would
                        would 17 March 2018 09: 35
                        0
                        As I said, learn the mat. Part, while you write illiterate nonsense.

                        1. Legally, the medical commission conducts an examination. Study the mathematical part in the person of the decree "On the approval of the Regulations on military medical examination," everything is written there.
                        2. Of course, what kind of magic inventory is this you will answer as you did not answer before.
                        3. A certain “accounting” from which later allegedly problems with rights and many others was long ago canceled. There is no more accounting since the 90s, there is only consultative medical care and medical observation. In order to be defeated in the rights you need to have a very difficult diagnosis or that the PND would break the law. Alas, this also happens.

                        In general, this is the main indicator of whether a person understands something in the subject of psychiatry or not. If a person does not understand, then he is guided by the myths that supposedly a visit to the PND or, all the more, treatment there supposedly imposes some restrictions. A person who understands at least something knows that there are a lot of diagnoses with which they have no right to put on a follow-up (this is generally a criminal offense), such a person cannot be legally defeated, but in the end his card is destroyed. A person who knows even a little more knows that there are patients in the PND without mental illness, and in some places there are whole departments for them with PND. What do you think these people are?
                    11. Pingo
                      Pingo 18 March 2018 07: 00
                      0
                      1. practically this examination, without witnesses.
                      2. if they themselves knew the materiel they would not ask such questions,
                      3. these are two different types of accounting, loss of rights depending on severity but it is always there, even with an advisory one, a card is destroyed very rarely and almost exclusively through a court, for this you need to go to hospital.
                      1. would
                        would 18 March 2018 12: 29
                        0
                        1. Of course, we didn’t study the mathematical part, and here you have a doctor of the draft board who examines someone, records the anamnesis, complaints, examination results, etc. Yeah. And in what document does he write this?

                        2. Naturally, there was no answer to the question; instead, the eternal “argument” “Sam d u cancer” was used.

                        3. Naturally, we did not study the mathematical part and you have "two different types of accounting", despite the fact that the law does not know a single one. There are no "counts" in the law. At the same time, they were not able to answer the question of who is constantly being treated in a psycho-neurological dispensary while not having mental illness.

                        These are people with chronic migraines. Migraine disease is neurological, and the dispensary is psychoneurological. And for treatment they need, for example, droppers that are difficult to put at home. Also in PND there are a lot of people with focal brain lesions due to cervical osteochondrosis, it is very close and often associated with migraines. Everyone who is even a little familiar with the topic knows this. And neither the doctors (who can generally put a person completely anonymously in the hospital, I am silent about the day hospital), neither the patients, nor the police are aware of any loss of rights. Everyone miraculously gets both rights and even a weapon license.
                    12. Pingo
                      Pingo 18 March 2018 14: 41
                      0
                      1. it is clear that they do not keep all this in mind until the next time.
                      2. look at the feature films where this inventory is present,
                      3. despite the fact that for some reason both are known in the PND, those who apply there with complaints receive a D or K-card automatically getting on the appropriate account, with all these consequences + inability to accept and transfer the inheritance.
                      for rights or weapons to PND and ND, can easily hack the usual p-ka, when there are only two fingers on one hand. their absence is visible without an encephalogram. "even a license" is easier to obtain than rights.
                      It happens for a lot of money to psychos and freaks give inquiries, if they are not very difficult, but it is even more difficult to remove from the register. even with such a certificate, then the police usually wrap them up (even with money), and the patient gets tired of going to sue her through the hospital (which is not a dispensary) quickly.
                      information seekers in the Russian Federation recently in PND and ND began to get on their account, they get cards in a separate registry, and in the ND they say “sick”. Does the law know something about this?
                      1. Pingo
                        Pingo 18 March 2018 14: 55
                        0
                        refuses "even with money" - because then it will be more expensive for itself.
                      2. would
                        would 18 March 2018 15: 53
                        0
                        1. Naturally, the answer to the question did not follow. Well, about how the doctor keeps something in his head while examining hundreds of draftees for the call, this is really a psychiatrist. Especially taking into account the fact that under the circumstances of this recruit, the doctor will see only at the next call.

                        2. Once again, you can’t name this inventory and examination methods and refer to (sic!) Feature films. Yeah, there is no doubt everything is completely realistic. Maybe you still learned to raise the dead from them?

                        3. And once again there are fantasies. How do you get a card when contacting (especially if it is anonymous, whose name will you start with?), Some kind of registration of which has not existed for 20 years and of course the cherry on the cake

                        with all these consequences + inability to accept and transfer the inheritance.


                        So let’s write, persons suffering from migraines and cervical osteoarthrosis are unable to accept and pass on the inheritance. I am sure that for everyone along the chain from the patient to government agencies and legislation, this will become news ... news from a citizen from the USA wassat
                    13. Pingo
                      Pingo 18 March 2018 16: 23
                      0
                      1. especially after repeated additional examinations by a psychiatrist,
                      2. found training somewhere?
                      3. write how do these two accounts differ from each other?
                      probably all the same capable, like those who just came for help and got to his third type in another registry.
        2. Korax71
          Korax71 14 March 2018 15: 00
          +3
          In addition to what you said. About 800 criminals using civilian weapons were killed in the United States that year. Acts of using weapons for innocents and exceeding self-defense were only 2% of these cases. While erroneous use of weapons in the police was 11% of all cases of use. weapons. civil society, possessing the right to bear arms at times more often uses it legally than law enforcement agencies. the number of all crimes involving the use of weapons acquired illegally is 93%. the numbers are stubborn things hi
      3. AID.S
        AID.S 14 March 2018 17: 21
        0
        Quote: EvilLion
        But to keep trunks at home, for some reason, almost anyone can.

        Below is a great comment.

        Pingo ↑
        Today, 12: 03
        How do you even serve in the army?
  8. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 14 March 2018 08: 41
    +5
    That the problem is not so much in weapons as in the people who use it, in their state of mind and spirit.
    Nice article. And the conclusions are correct - there can be no human freedom without weapons. This is absolutely impossible; “unarmed” freedom simply does not exist. But only here is freedom, it limits itself. Self-regulating system, panimyash!
    Introducing weapons laws, the United States did not think about anything at all, habitually taking an example from the founders - almost without exception European bandits of all stripes. Like thieves are armed, and nothing! Yes, only thieves "freedom" - is the freedom of secretly armed against the surrounding unarmed. But the environment saturated with criminality almost instantly realized that laws are necessary. Without them, completely armed bandits instantly clung to a bloody ball, and in harsh conditions, the settlements simply did not survive. The tough laws that the population supported led to a real, non-illusory order. Then there were a lot of things ...
    And now there is a wave. An irreplaceable wave, as an answer to how the USA arranged its inner life. Their ideas of the political system, internal structure and relationships between people led to the inevitable - people are trying to break out of unbearable conditions. Weapons. The most powerful tool they have. We don’t realize the protest by each individual shooter, everyone seems to have their own, separate, special reasons, but in bulk ...
    In general, the United States is better placed in this respect than almost any other country in the world. All these executions, for the country it is ... good. For people it’s bad, but for the country - a unique chance. Where people do not have such an opportunity, where the authorities do not allow this, contradictions accumulate more, and then inevitably, in all cases, destroy the country. And with the Americans, everything breaks out, and work begins to fix the problems. Not weapons laws, of course, they have nothing to do with the essence of what is happening ...
  9. Jerk
    Jerk 14 March 2018 08: 44
    +14
    Once again - only legal weapons can be legally restricted. Conclusions:
    1) The crime will find a weapon for itself and so find it - go for a crime with a legal barrel - as with the sign "I'm guilty"
    2) There is such a stubborn thing as statistics. In Moldova, as the short-haul was allowed - for a year or two crime, especially a heavy one - flew away under the baseboard
    3) But to whom to issue, to whom not - the question is. Approximately the same as with auto law. Statistics of fatal accidents due to inadequate drove to see? And compare with a firearm anywhere
    4) And nefig inflate from scratch
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 14 March 2018 11: 29
      0
      In Moldavia? Isn’t it funny for yourself?

      Motor transport is noticeably more difficult to use for killing, while without motor transport anywhere, but there is no benefit from the trunks. The weapon is the privilege of the army and the police.
      1. Serge Gorely
        Serge Gorely 14 March 2018 12: 15
        +5
        Quote: EvilLion
        In Moldavia? Isn’t it funny for yourself?

        Motor transport is noticeably more difficult to use for killing, while without motor transport anywhere, but there is no benefit from the trunks. The weapon is the privilege of the army and the police.

        What's so funny? Real statistics. Moldovans are southern people, a priori hot-tempered. Against the firearm gentlemen deputies. Probably, it’s not a problem for them to get hold of legally, and it’s scary to get the answer.
      2. Pingo
        Pingo 14 March 2018 12: 16
        +2
        say it to the french
      3. Barkun
        Barkun 14 March 2018 12: 22
        +5
        About vehicles you are wrong. Yes, even take Paris arrivals from the last time. It would be a desire. I can’t even say that vehicles, as a means of murder, are less selective, since here we are talking about mass executions and assaults. However, the car was used pointwise more than once or twice.
        But weapons are not the privilege of the army and the police, this is the privilege of free citizens, which may well include representatives of the army and the police. According to the mind, they should not have privileges at all, since servants are not otherwise.
      4. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 14 March 2018 13: 44
        +4
        Excuse me, but what's so funny about Moldova?
      5. michell
        michell 14 March 2018 16: 47
        +1
        Quote: EvilLion
        The weapon is the privilege of the army and the police.


        Did you forget about the bandits? wink
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 14 March 2018 17: 02
          +6
          Quote: michell
          Quote: EvilLion
          The weapon is the privilege of the army and the police.


          Did you forget about the bandits? wink

          You google the meaning of the word "privilege" yes
    2. Wilderness
      Wilderness 14 March 2018 12: 54
      -1
      People who are inclined to commit a crime using a firearm have left the country (in particular, Russia), and statistics have decreased.
      1. Jerk
        Jerk 14 March 2018 13: 30
        +5
        Maybe that's why they left, that in Moldova now they’ll get a real barrel in the mouth, and here it’s like a herd of sheep?
        For that matter - in the country there is a call, boys at puberty receive weapons when there are sea hormones, and there is a shortage of brains! And the cops why the trunks do not take away? Do not shoot? He shot a driver in Tsaritsino’s department, and then drunk shooting at a store? Well, let's take away all trunks for this trunks - the same reason!
  10. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 14 March 2018 09: 03
    +4
    Well, what are we sitting here and so worried about Washington and its inhabitants? Do we have a better situation with school shooting? And this despite the fact that we have no free circulation of weapons in fact! That's what you need to talk about! And you, as true propagandists, write all about the rotting West.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 14 March 2018 11: 33
      +1
      Imagine, but on 2 we have a better order. And if not for examples from the USA, then there would be no excesses at all.

      When we had the last case of a mass execution several years ago, not in schools, but in general, there are only 5 corpses and this is an emergency of decades, although news from the USA comes regularly every few months.
      1. Pingo
        Pingo 14 March 2018 12: 23
        +2
        examples are usually from a video recorder or television, and in the Russian Empire there were no such examples at all.
        Russian examples now simply do not show.
      2. andrej-shironov
        andrej-shironov 14 March 2018 14: 43
        +2
        I call first to remove the log from my eye, and then worry about the west. We have state of emergency in schools related to murders or grievous bodily occur every year. To do this, just look at the statistics open in the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
  11. Yutas
    Yutas 14 March 2018 11: 01
    +10
    Quote: K0
    Quote: Serge Gorely
    "Free firearm" in Moldova and Estonia. The crime rate is lower than in Russia. And yes. In Switzerland - well, you are in the know.

    Yes, yes, I know. also up to date on the topic:
    In Rostov on Thursday morning, December 28, a man shot his wife with a gun and then committed suicide. It is known that the deceased was fond of hunting and had weapons at home. According to some information, the killing could have been motivated by jealousy. The couple left a minor child.
    those. not crazy, if there weren’t a gun at hand - not the fact that he would have stabbed / scored it - it’s many times harder mentally and even physically. and then he freaked out, and hi turned out at hand.

    Two trunks at home. This is the year since 1993. There are stresses. Nobody shoots thoughts. What am I doing wrong?
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 14 March 2018 11: 30
      0
      You just did not face real stress.
      1. Pingo
        Pingo 14 March 2018 12: 25
        +1
        Well, face it.
        1. Alexanast
          Alexanast 14 March 2018 14: 27
          +3
          Quote: Pingo
          Well, face it.


          No, it’s easier for him to revel in the wall ... wassat
          1. Pingo
            Pingo 15 March 2018 00: 29
            +1
            he just didn’t come across when it was really needed,
            or when it was really in the hands during the service
      2. Korax71
        Korax71 14 March 2018 15: 15
        +5
        We went on business trips for half a year without a sortie, each person’s arm stretched out. There were so many strains that some had a half-gray head in some 20s. For 3 business trips I didn’t see a single civilian killed, not a single cabal, even drunk. they could hit each other in the face. although there was a case in the manual on one of the business trips, the codnily pretty warrior, hugging a furry animal and trying to wave the trunk, didn’t have time to shoot, but grabbed his gums notably. as you know, the war will write everything off.
    2. Lebedev
      Lebedev 14 March 2018 14: 23
      +2
      Maybe you drink a little and are too educated!)
  12. would
    would 14 March 2018 11: 13
    +12
    Naturally, after the next execution, there are again exclamations that weapons should be prohibited, and so on. That's just the article is pure manipulation because it concealed one extremely important thing, it was mentioned with only one sentence. California has one of the toughest prohibition laws in the U.S.

    I quote English Wikipedia

    The gun laws of california are some of the most restrictive in the United States. A 5-year Firearm Safety Certificate, obtained by paying a $ 25 fee, submission of applicant data to the state, and passing a written test proctored by a DOJ Certified Instructor, is required for the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of any firearm . Handguns sold by dealers must be "California legal" by being listed on the state's Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale. [7] This roster, which requires handgun manufacturers to pay a fee and submit specific models for safety testing, has become progressively more stringent over time and is currently the subject of a federal civil rights lawsuit on the basis that it is a de facto ban on new handgun models. Private sales of firearms must be done through a licensed dealer. All firearm sales are recorded by the state, and have a ten-day waiting period. Unlike most other states, California has no provision in its state constitution that explicitly guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms. [Not in citation given] The California Supreme Court has maintained that most of California's restrictive gun laws are constitutional, because the state's constitution does not explicitly guarantee private citizens the right to purchase, possess, or carry firearms. However, US Supreme Court decisions of Heller (2008) and McDonald (2010) established that the Second Amendment applies to all states within the Union, and many of California's gun laws are now being challenged in the federal courts


    And this is just the beginning. A very rigid system for selling weapons with a mandatory permission from the state and a registration period of 10 days, very strict registration of owners and trunks (California is one of two states where there is still a bulletproof magazine), the magazine has a capacity limit of 10 rounds, and a permit is required to carry it, which is issued at the discretion of the permitting authority, which may refuse without explaining the reasons and the availability of those proceeding from its internal conviction, etc. This is one of the few states where arms laws are in some places tougher than in Russia. You can read more in English at the request of Gun laws in California.

    And despite all this, I'm shooting there, in California, the level of murder from a gunshot is at an oversized level. And at that time in some Alabama where weapons are sold almost freely, and their registration is not just not being conducted, but there are almost no killings directly prohibited by the law of the state. In no less free Georgia, there were no mass executions at all, and pistols were presented just like Christmas socks. And nothing, nobody kills anyone. And California is directly in a fever from year to year, and the state has received the nickname Kommorfiya for its policy. To understand in the United States, those we call liberals are called socialists and communists.

    Switzerland has already been mentioned, and there for a second, each reservist’s house holds a rifle, and civilian weapons alone are 2.3mln per 7.5mln of the population, this does not take into account the very barrels of reservists. And nothing, quiet and smooth. You will be surprised, but even in the Republic of Belarus you can legally buy a gun and nothing.

    So once again we see how after the next execution there are exclamations aimed not at combating the reasons, to demand even more stringent arms legislation is much easier than solving the problem of racial and social stratification that give rise to crime. Mass executions generally have much more specific reasons and that is why only the USA is in a fever.

    Well, in the comments, the next "men" talk about what a terrible weapon and how it should be banned. Can you imagine this in Chechnya? In Dagestan? What would a man stand up and say that his nation is unworthy of weapons and should be taken away? Me not. And if this happens, then the person will be considered simply crazy. How is a man, a warrior, a defender of the family and clan and unworthy of a weapon ?!
    1. Gloomy
      Gloomy 14 March 2018 11: 27
      +7
      And despite all this, I'm shooting there, in California, the level of murder from a gunshot is at an oversized level.

      It's all about the "color palette" of the population.

      That is, people who believe that the Russians do not need weapons, in fact, equate them with the American blacks from the ghetto.
      1. would
        would 14 March 2018 12: 21
        +2
        Not without it. Plus, a large population density in large cities in California that give the basic statistics on crime, plus a very large percentage of black and Latin people in these cities, plus a large social stratification, plus the border with Mexico. All these advantages give huge statistics on homicides and with prohibitive arms legislation, which, as statistics show, has no direct connection with crime in any country in the world.
      2. Pingo
        Pingo 14 March 2018 12: 26
        +2
        to white Indians
    2. Korax71
      Korax71 14 March 2018 15: 20
      +4
      There is a story on this subject, I don’t remember the name of the city, but with a population of 30 thousand people. By the law, if you own less than 1 unit of firearms, you are fined $ 500. For 30 years in this city there are absolutely 3 murders, 2 of them using a knife.
      1. would
        would 14 March 2018 23: 49
        +1
        This is not a city but a state - Vermont. There definitely is a tax for those who do not have any weapons, just $ 500. There really is one of the freest weapons laws of the United States and very, very low crime.

        But here it’s worth mentioning that this is a rural state with a population density of 25,12 people km², and the largest city has a population of only 42282, less than 50 thousand. Plus, almost the entire population of the state is white.
    3. Pingo
      Pingo 15 March 2018 00: 49
      0
      By the way, the 2nd amendment states that in the USA it is forbidden to dig under the right to weapons, and not that it allows it.
      1. would
        would 15 March 2018 02: 25
        0
        She says something completely different

        Since a well-organized militia is necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and carry weapons should not be violated


        What is the right to store and carry weapons is not indicated, but it is clearly indicated that it comes from a "well-organized militia". As a result, each state interprets as it wants, up to a de facto complete ban, as it was at least recently in Chicago.
        1. Pingo
          Pingo 15 March 2018 03: 19
          0
          Quote: rait
          the right of the people to keep and carry weapons should not be broken

          infringement in terms of "violation" has a very specific meaning.
          that is, the repeal of this amendment should only allow agitation against this right
          law does not proceed from it; it is especially important in the light of militia functions by the population.
          de jure such a ban is unconstitutional, de facto it is a cynical mockery of citizens in one of the most gangster cities.
  13. EvilLion
    EvilLion 14 March 2018 11: 19
    +1
    Let them legally acquire tanks, there will be a stimulation of the economy, but what will work for the Kursk Bulge is the cost.
    1. Serge Gorely
      Serge Gorely 14 March 2018 12: 18
      +6
      Quote: EvilLion
      Let them legally acquire tanks, there will be a stimulation of the economy, but what will work for the Kursk Bulge is the cost.

      Any idea can be brought to senility, which does not make the idea bad.
  14. DimanC
    DimanC 14 March 2018 11: 24
    +2
    The problem, as you know, is in the heads ...
  15. AID.S
    AID.S 14 March 2018 12: 23
    +1
    Many bukof, not asil. Not an interesting topic, especially in the light of our relations.
  16. Barkun
    Barkun 14 March 2018 12: 33
    +3
    And let's take a man. Take and begin to artificially suppress its natural reactions. Since childhood. We will force to endure, suppress manifestations of feelings, artificially show approval when instincts scream to stay away (see tolerance). And on top there are also fairy tales about “success”, “determination” and other “debts”, which, by the way, are weakly coordinated with tolerance and tolerance. And hormones haven’t gone anywhere. As a result, we get something amorphous and explosive. There are only two ways out: either sedatives like Vitamins daily and constantly, or the sewage system for thirst for violence, at least in sports, computer games, in a constant change of partners. And if the proven methods fail (the dose should increase), then here, sorry, move in and get a random fight out of the blue. In recent years, three times already at such an abscess that is symptomatic. Stools - flying, a hammer - was. There were no trunks, although there were two at the house itself, but somehow there wasn’t even a thought to run after them, for what if there was a stool?

    So it turns out that unmotivated violence - it is highly motivated, in fact. Only the motive is unconscious. And the presence or absence of a barrel at hand does not affect the condition itself.
  17. Wilderness
    Wilderness 14 March 2018 13: 05
    0
    And in the photo to the article, in the foreground - Die Hard? How old he was)))
  18. watchmaker
    watchmaker 14 March 2018 13: 58
    0
    in the United States as in Ukraine, or vice versa, the population has too many weapons, they shoot at each other with or without and Trump also promises to build a fence ..... Type ---- hit your own so that others would be afraid?
  19. pilot69
    pilot69 14 March 2018 14: 32
    +3
    I did not see the main thing in any of the comments, but meanwhile the article has a link to the film by Michael Moore. I advise you to watch it and many questions will disappear.
    How many weapons are in the hands of the population - a lot or a little, the question is secondary. The main thing, in my opinion, is the psychological state of society, where this weapon rotates. EMNIP, the USA has the largest number of psychiatrists, psychologists, etc. per capita in the world. There is a moment in the film where Moore makes a comparison between the Canadian and American towns that the border shares, there are all the answers.
  20. 82т11
    82т11 14 March 2018 20: 34
    0
    Any state that wants to survive as a state must accustom its citizens to own a gun. After all, the whole development of mankind shows how the possibilities of people are growing with each century. Indeed, for example, our ancestors, for example, in 1850 did not think that their descendants would drive iron cars weighing half a ton. But the car is also a weapon, which proved the attacks in France. And what opportunities in the murder of a neighbor give the development of chemistry and physics in the last century!
    And now what do we all give up on machines and the achievements of our science? Of course not!
    But further on, scientists promise 3D printers that are accessible to ordinary people when everyone can do whatever their imagination is enough)
    So it turns out that the state does not need to ban weapons (if someone thinks of killing they will find an opportunity in our developed age), but to accustom citizens to solve their problems without leading to murder.
  21. Altona
    Altona 14 March 2018 21: 21
    0
    Quote: siberalt
    For Americans, having a personal weapon has developed historically and for them it is quite natural, like circumcision among Jews or Muslims. And violence with the use of weapons is dictated not by its presence, but by the organization of the national ideology, upbringing and individual psyche of the individual.

    -----------------------------
    Capitalism fuels an atmosphere of hatred, which then turns into violence. Creepy news, horror films, computer shooters and other pathogens of the psyche and ideals of the cult of power.
  22. Xscorpion
    Xscorpion 14 March 2018 22: 35
    0
    Quote: Pingo
    because of such cases, it should not be at hand, but in a safe in accordance with Russian law.


    Where's the safe? And who have the keys? The fact is that anyone who has a weapon will use it for a crime. And if he doesn’t, then he will acquire it illegally, and this time, and perhaps during the acquisition he will face the police. Or he will have to use available means to kill him. an example is a household knife. But for its successful use, special training is needed, including a person who is set to kill. And there is no need to talk about the case when ordinary women are killed with knives. There are. One in a thousand in all cases of using a knife, mainly cuts remain. For killing in a state of passion, even a weapon is not needed, you can strangle it with your hands. But for a deliberate murder you need a barrel. Not everyone is able to approach a person and stab him. But everyone is capable of firing a pistol, even if he doesn’t want to, even if he is a simple child of 5 years old, who took this trunk to play, which was his drunk and asleep father.
    1. would
      would 14 March 2018 23: 55
      +1
      The fact is that anyone who has a weapon will use it for a crime.


      The fact is that even, as the liberals say, in “ever drunk Russia with a drinking and shitty people”, over 5 million trunks accounted for only 594 crimes.



      And what you wrote is your fantasies.
      1. Pingo
        Pingo 15 March 2018 00: 53
        0
        5 million are those who received the trunk just this year,
        500 of the trunks received in all years for the whole country, and this is not necessarily murder.
        1. would
          would 15 March 2018 02: 26
          0
          5 million is how many trunks were on hand for this year, how much was received for the year is not indicated anywhere.

          But 594 is specifically for this year. I think it’s worth guessing because when adding numbers up to 2015, you get significantly more.
          1. Pingo
            Pingo 15 March 2018 03: 33
            0
            No, the first line is exactly the number of requests for licenses for the purchase of the trunk and their issuance. The figure varies greatly from year to year (up 20 percent up and down). Someone already has and buys himself another (most), someone buys himself the first time.
            In the first row of the second table - for this year, but from all the available weapons, and not received this year.
            Therefore, the proportion is even better. There are at least 15-25 million owners of registered weapons in Russia, and most of them have more than one trunk. Once every five years, re-registration (at the service once a year). Earlier in the Russian Federation, the local authority ordered for premium weapons; the police were completely unaware of who they had.
            1. would
              would 15 March 2018 04: 47
              0
              I see no reason to argue with someone who can’t read hi
              1. Pingo
                Pingo 15 March 2018 05: 23
                0
                If you can read, then in the first column of the first row of the first table it says: "owners have received", but not "owners having".
                If you count and understand, the number of owners cannot change by 20% per year down.
                Each owner is obliged to re-register trunks in the Russian Federation every 5 years (that is, they apply not only for a purchase license), divide these 15-25mln (an estimate of the number of owners) by 5 years, you receive on average these same 5 million calls per year, all trunks are usually at the same time extend when buying a new one.
          2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Pingo
      Pingo 15 March 2018 00: 38
      0
      not everyone - usually they don’t even cut but hammer
      so that the child does not play, the weapon should be locked up, and it is also better not to be in sight, away from temptations.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. novel66
    novel66 15 March 2018 09: 58
    0
    Pingo,
    I look at people at the wheel and see. that they bought a certificate in the transition, inadequate full, fight, and if the trunks in their hands ...
    1. Pingo
      Pingo 16 March 2018 03: 17
      0
      if in transition, then fake
      1. novel66
        novel66 16 March 2018 07: 03
        0
        yes, but real rights give out under it
        1. Pingo
          Pingo 16 March 2018 07: 35
          0
          rights can also be made false,
          or go without them at all
          1. novel66
            novel66 16 March 2018 07: 40
            +1
            yes, and speaking quite seriously, the question arises, why does a person with a weapon go to jail without permission, and a person without a driving license is an administrator, and in accidents he dies many times more than from a gun
            1. Pingo
              Pingo 16 March 2018 07: 53
              0
              and to be honest
  25. ibnvladimir
    ibnvladimir 15 March 2018 10: 21
    0
    Our kings, too, for a long time could not solve the problem of serfs ... They blundered the revolution. So the Yankees jump with a delay.
    1. Pingo
      Pingo 17 March 2018 07: 04
      0
      revolution more than half a century after the complete abolition of this same right?
      on the greater part of the territory of the Russian Empire it never existed at all, by the way the Soviet power came to these parts with its new and this time total right later.
  26. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 15 March 2018 12: 15
    0
    I think that only armed specially trained guards will help reduce such cases in schools. Fight against a healthy forehead in body armor and special training that every day for three hours practicing with weapons, few decide.
    1. Pingo
      Pingo 16 March 2018 03: 15
      0
      screaming against parents with trunks and wearing bulletproof vests is even more dangerous,
      unarmed hired security in Russian schools have long been
      1. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 16 March 2018 19: 15
        0
        Well, unarmed security is not security at all, it's a guard.
        There was a case when an armed izh - 71 security guard thwarted an attack of a whole gang with a machete and knives on a school.
        1. Pingo
          Pingo 17 March 2018 05: 00
          0
          is here in the article and under it someone is afraid of machetes and knives?
  27. Forever so
    Forever so 16 March 2018 15: 59
    0
    I read the article, read the comments and everywhere the refrain -It wouldn’t have so many weapons on their hands, there wouldn’t be a problem .. (c) But for some reason, the authors of such statues do not indicate at all that all the shootings take place in ZONES FREE OF ARMS. That is, some individuals are going to shoot like there as in a zoo. After all, the animals have nothing to shoot ... Knowing for sure that where there are no pacifizing half-wits, they will immediately be krandets. For some reason, no one publishes information about cases when a criminal decided to shoot children at a golf tournament and his parents immediately stuffed him with lead, no one writes how another priest decided to shoot in the church and the pastor personally slammed him, and the parishioners supported him. No!! we are constantly poking a smelly gum HOW DARKLY IN AMERICA WITH WEAPONS, People !! in America, everything is fine with weapons; it is dreary in places where tolerant idiots frolic with the ideas of "territories without weapons."