1942 Rzhev. Volga. Ice and blood

38
During the major Soviet offensive in the winter of 1941-1942, the purpose of which was to defeat the German Army Group Center, the troops of the Kalinin Front under the command of General Ivan Konev by five armies and one cavalry corps (total 1 million 59 thousand people) had the task of destroying the 9 th German army opposing them.

After the Soviet troops took Kalinin, they launched an offensive on a broad front east of another Volga city, Rzhev. 4 January 1942 of the year, the Soviet motorized brigade 29-th and 4-th shock armies. bypassing the enemy, were already in 8-mi west of Rzhev.

1942 Rzhev. Volga. Ice and blood


Hitler gave the 9 th army the order: "The 9 th army is not one step back! Hold the line on the Volga, in order to become something!"

Winter paralyzed all the advances of the German troops. But the soldiers of the Red Army, she gave a great advantage. They had not only snowmobiles capable of moving through deep snow, good winter clothing, but above all weaponwhich, unlike the German, did not refuse the bitter cold.
In mid-January, the forward detachments of the Soviet cavalry corps, General Belov, reached the Sychevka region south of Rzhev and cut the Rzhev-Vyazma railway. At the same time, three airborne brigades were parachuted into the Vyazma region, and the 1 Guards Cavalry Corps broke through the enemy defenses in the Yukhnov region in the north-west direction and went to the rear of the German forces, going to the Kalinin front.
Thus, a real threat of full coverage and encirclement of the entire 9 of the German army was created.

The position of the Germans was critical - in fact, the 9-I army was half-armed, with completely exhausted soldiers, without reinforcements and reserves. The communication system between the units and the unified coordination of control were disrupted, the supply of troops with food and ammunition on a single railway line ceased and, in addition, the army commander, Colonel-General Strauss, was out of action.

On January 16, 1942, the commander of the 9th Army was appointed General tank troops Walter Model.

Small, wiry and agile, he was popular in parts of the 41 tank corps. Everyone knew - where the Model, there is a tangible presence of military luck: where it is, succeed the most ambitious designs, the most crisis situations are resolved. And the matter was not only in the exclusiveness and clarity of the orders given to them - everywhere, in the most forward positions, the commander appeared personally. He could unexpectedly jump out of an all-terrain vehicle near the battalion headquarters or ride a horse in deep snow to the front lines, where he inspired, scolded, instructed and eventually went to the attack at the head of the battalion with a pistol in his hand. Largely due to this presence on the front line, the fate of the upcoming battle was decided.

The model understood that only defensive actions could not change the situation. “Attack, intercept initiative from the enemy, impose your will on him”, - such a recipe prescribed Model to subordinates. And although the overwhelming numerical superiority was on the side of the enemy (five Soviet -9, 22, 29,30 and 31th armies acted against his 39 army), he went on the offensive.

It began at a temperature 45 degrees below zero. The regimental and divisional commanders asked the army commander to postpone the operation, to which the Model responded to them:
- What for? Tomorrow or the day after will not become warmer. And the enemy of his offensive does not roll.

Model's plan looked simple. He sent a reinforced 1-th tank division and parts of the newly arrived Reich division from Sychevka to the North-West direction to Osuy to strike at the flank of the advanced Soviet units. 22 January Model gave the order to the 6 Corps to attack from the area west of Rzhev, striking the Soviet units of the 39 and 29 armies. At the same time, the 23 of the German corps — cut off in the Olenin area — struck from the west, going to the junction with the 6 corps. The operation of the two wedges of the German offensive against the Soviet breakthrough between Nikolsky and Solomin was conducted by German units at the limit of forces, but it was a success. On January 23, the soldiers of the head units of the 23 Corps and the Major River Fighting Group from the 6 Corps shook hands.

The two "snow roads" laid by the Red Army across the Volga were cut, and the Soviet corps of the 29 and 39 armies (7 rifle, 3-motorized and 3-x cavalry divisions) were cut off from their rear communications and supply bases.

The model seized the initiative on the battlefield between Sychevka and the Volga, and was not going to give it back to the enemy. The first thing the new commander did was reinforce the newly acquired corridor linking the 6 and 23 corps. Soviet troops were desperately trying to break through the barrier and restore the message with their severed divisions. The model could not allow this.

To accomplish the task, he chose the most suitable person. He was able to find the right people to perform particularly difficult tasks. This time it was Obershturmbanführer Otto Kumm, the commander of the regiment "Der Führer" from the division "Reich". Kumma and his regiment were transferred to the Volga - to the very place where the Soviet 29 Army crossed the frozen river.

“Hold on at all costs,” Model Kummu ordered, “at all costs,” the general emphasized.
Kumm saluted.
- Yes, Mr. General!

January 28 A model in the southern sector of the front launched a counterblow to completely surround the cut off 29 and 39 units of the Soviet armies. The adversary understood what was at stake and desperately resisted.

The fight was not for life, but for death. Each forest hut in deep snow turned into a fortress, the ruins of any house in the village - into a hellish inferno. Critical situations were created more than once, which were resolved only thanks to the inhuman efforts of deadly tired soldiers. In the afternoon, the Model spent about an hour studying maps, and the remaining ten were in the army. Wherever he appeared, the insanely exhausted commanders of the units and the rank and file, as if breathing a second breath.

February 4 ring around eleven Soviet divisions, representing the main forces of the two armies, closed.

Meanwhile, Kumm and his 650 regiment, a man who had taken positions at the village of Klepnino along the ice-covered Volga, repelled, day after day, the attacks of the fresh units of the Red Army, who were striving to join up with their surrounded divisions. It was there, in that place at Klepnino, that the fate of the battle for Rzhev was decided.

Despite its small number, the Kumma regiment was well equipped. At the forefront was the 88mm anti-aircraft gun. Fighter-anti-tank company was armed with 50mm anti-tank guns. A company of heavy weapons consisted of a platoon of light infantry guns, and two more platoons had 37mm anti-tank guns, as well as a battery of assault guns of the 189 division. But even in this situation, the forces of the defenders still remained more than modest compared with the masses of the attacking Soviet units, consisting of several infantry and tank brigades.

For three weeks, Soviet troops constantly attacked day and night. However, they made quite a typical tactical mistake for them - they did not concentrate all their forces on one section of the breakthrough, they did not determine the direction of concentration of the main efforts for themselves. They threw the battalion behind the battalion, then the regiment after the regiment and, finally, the brigade after brigade.

February 3 thirteen 50mm anti-guns Lieutenant Peterman knocked twenty T-34. For five hours, the gun crew of the gun standing there was replaced three times, the next crew was crushed by the T-34. Two dozen wrecked Soviet tanks froze before reaching the German positions.

On the sixth day, thirty light Soviet tanks appeared in front of the company 10 position. They stopped fifty meters away, and then began shooting at infantry dugouts and machine-gun points. They poured them fire for an hour, and then drove back to the forest. Two hours later, a man crawled into the battalion headquarters from the location of the 10 company. It was a rotenführer (corporal) Wagner. He was helped up and put into the room. Severely wounded, with frost-bitten hands, he tried to get up and how to report to the battalion commander. But he fell and reported lying on the floor:
“Hauptsturmführer (captain), out of my company I was left alive. All died.
Wagner convulsed, and in a second the 10-i company finally ceased to exist.

At the turn there was a gap not less than a kilometer wide. The command of the 6 Army Corps threw people, drivers, cooks, shoemakers and tailors, over the 120 hole to be sealed. These 120 people took the positions of the 10 of the company, but they had absolutely no experience in this kind of combat. After mortar shelling, Soviet soldiers rushed at them to attack with shouts of "Hurray!". This turned out to be too much for the nerves of the loggers. They ran and were killed one by one like rabbits.
When it got dark, the Red Army soldiers from the Kumma regiment in Klepenin separated the entire 50 meters.

From the regiment commander to the drivers, everyone prepared to repel the attack, holding carbines, machine guns and machine guns. The headquarters were supported by an anti-tank gun and soldiers of the 561 of the anti-tank battalion, who fought like infantrymen.

No matter how many times Red Army men rushed in the attack, they could not get closer to the headquarters of 15 meters. The words of combat reports from the battlefield are striking in their monstrous simplicity: \ "On the approaches to Klepenin there were mountains of corpses lying around \".

The corps sent an infantry regiment to the rescue. But the Soviet soldiers killed him almost completely. On the night from February 6 to February 7, the enemy finally broke into the position of the 2 Company through the battalion. The most severe hand-to-hand battle lasted four hours. 2-I company of the regiment "Der Führer" fell to the last man.

At that moment, the motorcycle battalion of the Reich division arrived in Klepnino. In addition, units of the 189 division of assault guns under the command of Major Mummert were deployed to help Kumm. 210mm mortars went into position and fired their shells on a broken \ "Russian grove \" Soviet infantry. The grove changed owners ten times. After the eleventh attack, she remained in the hands of Major Mummert’s 14 reconnaissance battalion.



Kumm confidently held positions on the northern tip of a large boiler. The debit brigades of the Soviet 39 army failed to cross the Volga. They bled to death. The bodies of the dead Soviet soldiers on a bend of the Volga lay in thousands.
The battle was coming to an end. The Soviet 29 Army and the bulk of the 39 Army were destroyed. The model, which received the rank of Colonel-General 1 on February, managed to change the course of events of the winter battle on the Central Front. The following data speaks about the scale of the battles and their bloodshed: 5 thousands of Soviet soldiers and officers were taken prisoner, 27 thousands left to lie on the battlefields. Six Soviet rifle divisions were completely destroyed, and another nine plus five tank brigades were seriously battered.

The Germans also suffered heavy losses. On February 18, when Obersturmmbunführer Otto Kumm reported to the division headquarters, the Model just happened to be there. He said to Kumm:

- I know that from your regiment, almost nothing is left. But I can not do without you. What is the current number of personnel?

Kumm pointed toward the window:
- Mr. Colonel-General, my regiment is built.

The model looked out the window. Before the headquarters stood thirty-five soldiers and officers.
38 comments
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  1. +12
    April 13 2012 09: 07
    Operation Mars - Marshal Zhukov was very reluctant to write about it in his memoirs, it was not written about in Soviet history textbooks. The Germans fought too stubbornly there, and the Rzhev salient demanded too many sacrifices from the Soviet soldiers.
    1. +6
      April 13 2012 09: 42
      I agree, it was not in vain that they called the "Rzhev meat grinder" ..... we must pay tribute to the Germans, at that stage their tactics of maneuvering actions of combat groups were more effective than ours ... and from the memories, in fact, there is little. there are data on losses in the electronic archives, but there are practically no other documents (however, I recently "dug up" several explanatory fighters and commanders of the 33rd Army who left the encirclement - a few sheets of everything, but very informative and informative) ... I also remembered: Shumilin "Roly-company" is a strong thing
      1. 755962
        +5
        April 13 2012 11: 27
        The Battle of Rzhev is the most bloody battle in the history of mankind. And the most hushed up by historians.
        On the Rzhevsky bridgehead were 2/3 divisions of the Army "Center" for the offensive on Moscow. The losses of Soviet troops in the battles near Rzhev amounted to more than 2 million people, twice the losses in the Battle of Stalingrad. The 29th Army was killed in the forests near Rzhev. The city itself has been turned into a lunar landscape. Only 40.000 people remain of the city's 248 population. After a fierce 15-month battle, Rzhev was never taken - the Germans themselves withdrew to prepared positions.
        1. makrus
          +1
          April 13 2012 15: 59
          From your comments it seems that in the winter of 1941-1942. The Soviet Union near Rzhev lost 2 mil. person?
        2. Ulyanov
          +1
          April 13 2012 21: 10
          Bullshit do not write about 2 million
        3. Zynaps
          +2
          April 14 2012 17: 35
          Quote: 755962
          The Battle of Rzhev is the bloodiest battle in the history of mankind


          not the most. Battle for Moscow. every fourth soldier of the Red Army died defending the capital. this is if we take the total irretrievable losses of the Red Army in World War II. source - historian Alexei Isaev.

          Quote: 755962
          The losses of the Soviet troops in the battles near Rzhev amounted to more than 2 million people, twice the losses in the Battle of Stalingrad.


          arrogant lies. total irretrievable losses of the Red Army troops according to the results of the battles
          for the Rzhev-Vyazemsky and three (!) Rzhev-Sychevsky operations - 433 thousand people. it is necessary to decipher what is included in the concept of "general irrecoverable losses"?

          you can check the figure in the respectable work "The losses of the USSR and Russia in the wars of the XX century", table 142.

          Quote: 755962
          After a fierce 15-month battle, Rzhev was never taken - the Germans themselves retreated to previously prepared positions.


          dadadad. if they wanted, they came. if they wanted to, they left. The Red Army of Kagbe and out of business, right?

          according to the results of four operations (despite the fact that the battles near Rzhev did not fully achieve their goals), the following was achieved:

          - the best German divisions were knocked out or bloodless (those that were equipped after 1942 were their pale likeness)
          - Germans no longer had a chance to re-strike Moscow
  2. +6
    April 13 2012 09: 28
    You are mistaken colleague, Mars was later like uranium is "Rzhev-Vyazemskaya strategic offensive operation of the Kalinin and Western fronts - 8.01/20.04.1942/XNUMX".
    1. +5
      April 13 2012 10: 25
      The Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation has now received the full right to be called the Battle of Rzhev. In new editions, it began to be called.
  3. +6
    April 13 2012 09: 40
    Great historical selection today! every day would be so. +++
  4. Olegovich
    +3
    April 13 2012 10: 29
    What is of great importance communications and the correct redeployment of troops.!
  5. +1
    April 13 2012 10: 33
    If not for Rzhev Stalingrad, we would not have kept
  6. schta
    +4
    April 13 2012 10: 51
    Fyodor Okhlopkov fought in this "Rzhev meat grinder" for almost a year. Alive, healthy.
  7. Kostyan
    -2
    April 13 2012 11: 17
    this is the question of how our cocks commanders studied ... these are all these fighters and were studying ....
    1. 0
      April 13 2012 12: 00
      Ours may be, but certainly not yours ...
      1. Kostyan
        0
        April 13 2012 18: 49
        I realized what I wrote ??? Th not far ?????
  8. loc.bejenari
    +2
    April 13 2012 11: 21
    stupid massacre with our mediocre command
    even according to the article - stupidly merge 20 tanks - this still has to try
    And to put as a result, near Rzhev, about a million soldiers in senseless head-on attacks on machine guns like Verdun — that’s the commander’s genius of Zhukov and company
    you read the memoirs of soldiers and statistics on the Rzhev battles, and you are horrified - how could this be done with your troops
    1. Ulyanov
      +4
      April 13 2012 21: 23
      a million near Rzhev and supposedly mediocre command are the vysers of pro-Western historians who have the goal of pouring mud on everything, and if you replicate them, it means Bandera
    2. Zynaps
      +2
      April 14 2012 17: 49
      Quote: loc.bejenari
      you read the memoirs of soldiers and statistics on the Rzhev battles, and you are horrified - how could this be done with your troops


      Dadad, read the recollections of the Germans who fought under Rzhev (and the biographer Model - British Newton). hellish hell! Russians wet us!

      for example, August von Kagenek in the book “War in the East. The history of the German regiment, 1941-1944. " writes about the summer battle for Rzhev the following:

      “The enemy attack was an unprecedented force, the most intense from the very beginning of the campaign. Hoke, the battalion commander, described the first day of this battle in a book written at the request of the division in the fall of 1943, but which was never published, banned by the Goebbels propaganda ministry, as too cruel, too realistic for the German people.

      “We moved to the front in a loose formation. The hellish fire of artillery and mortars of the enemy fell on our trenches. Dense puffs of smoke blocked our forefront. Incredibly, this is the number of artillery batteries and rocket launchers of all kinds, the indescribable sound of Katyusha. At least 40 to 50 “Stalinist organs” were fired simultaneously. Bombers and fighter-bombers came and went with the sharp sound of their engines. We have never seen such a thing in Russia. At the same time, God knows that we already had a difficult past. But it seems that the most difficult was still awaiting us. We run from funnel to funnel to hide from the fragments of shells. Another 500 meters to the first trench. The wounded are wandering towards us. They say that ahead is very bad. Very big losses. "The Russians destroyed our equipment and weapons, leveled our positions with the ground."
      What followed was a series of acts of heroism, both on the one hand and on the other. This was no longer a war of machine guns and machine guns, hand grenades and pistols, as in winter. It was a Materialschlacht, a battle of the technology of the First World War, a battle in which the attacker tried to destroy the enemy with steel, a shower of steel flying in the air and rushing on the tracks, when a person intervened only at the last moment to destroy, in this lunar landscape, that still survived in the meat grinder ... "

      I can fill you with such revelations in tons.
  9. laurbalaur
    +16
    April 13 2012 11: 28
    I am killed under Rzhev,
    In an unchanged swamp,
    In the fifth company, on the left,
    With a cruel raid.
    I did not hear the rupture,
    I did not see that flash, -
    Like a precipice from a cliff -
    And neither the bottom nor the tires.
    And in all this world,
    Until the end of his days,
    Neither loops, nor crochets
    From my tunic.
    A.T. Twardowski

    Eternal memory to the soldiers and officers who gave their lives in the "Rzhev meat grinder".
  10. +5
    April 13 2012 11: 58
    Many historians express the view that it was then that the spirit of the German army was broken ... they saw that there wasn’t the price that would be too high for our army ... a case in point is the refusal of flights by pilots in England due to losses unacceptable to them .. War is, first of all, patience and who endures whom ... he will win ...
    1. Kostyan
      -2
      April 13 2012 20: 41
      complete nonsense are you talking about ....
      1. 0
        April 15 2012 13: 59
        already in 1941, many realized that the Barbarossa plan was complete nonsense. And from the "valiant" Wehrmacht went home such "optimistic" messages

        [
        November 25.10.1941, XNUMX
        We are located 90 km from Moscow, and it cost us a lot of people killed. The Russians still show very strong resistance, defending Moscow, this can easily be imagined. Until we come to Moscow, there will be more fierce battles. Many who still don’t think about it will have to die. So far, we have two killed by heavy mines and a 1-shell. In this campaign, many regretted that Russia was not Poland and not France, and that there was no stronger enemy than the Russians. If another six months pass, we are gone because the Russians have too many people. I heard that when we finish Moscow, they will let us go to Germany.
        (From the letters of the soldier Sim3.12.1941
        For over three months now I have been in Russia and have already experienced a lot. Yes, dear brother, sometimes the soul goes straight to the heels when you are a hundred meters from the damned Russians and grenades and mines are torn around you.
        (From a letter from the soldier E. Zeigardt to his brother Friedrich, city of Hofsgust.) She is Baumer.)


        30.11.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX My beloved Zilla. This, rightly speaking, is a strange letter, which, of course, no mail will send anywhere, and I decided to send it with my wounded countryman, you know him - this is Fritz Sauber. We were lying in a regimental infirmary together, and now I am back in operation, and he is going home. I am writing a letter in a peasant's hut. All my comrades are sleeping, and I am serving. The street is terribly cold, the Russian winter has taken over, German soldiers are very poorly dressed, we wear caps in this terrible frost, and all of our uniforms are summer. Every day brings us great sacrifices. We are losing our brothers, and the end of the war is not visible and probably not to see me, I do not know what will happen to me tomorrow, I have already lost all hope of returning home and staying alive. I think that every German soldier will find a grave here. These snowstorms and vast fields covered with snow, cause me mortal terror. It’s impossible to win the Russians, they ...
        (From a letter from Wilhelm Elman.)


        November 5.12.1941, XNUMX
        This time we will celebrate Christmas in Russian “paradise”. We are again at the forefront, hard days for us. Just think, Ludwig Franz is killed. It hit him in the head. Yes, my dear Fred, the ranks of old comrades are thinning and thinning. On the same day, 3.12, I lost two more comrades from my department ... Probably, they will soon release us; my nerves completely lost. Neugebauer is obviously not killed, but seriously wounded. Feldfebel Fleisig, Sarsen and Schneider from the old first company are also killed. Also the old sergeant Rosterman. 3.12 also killed our last battalion commander, Lt. Col. Walter. Anft is still wounded. Bortush and Koblishek, Mushchik, Kasker, Leibzel and Canrost are also killed.
        (From a letter from non-commissioned officer G. Weiner to his friend Alfred Schaefer.)


        November 26.10.1941, XNUMX
        I'm sitting on the floor in a Russian peasant house. In this tightness 10 comrades from all divisions gathered. Can you imagine the noise here? We are located at the Moscow-Smolensk motorway, not far from Moscow.
        The Russians fight fiercely and fiercely for every meter of land. Fights have never been so fierce and hard, and many of us will not see our relatives.
        (From a letter from a soldier Rudolf Rupp to his wife.)


        and so on http://www.drittereich.info/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3068
  11. Dust
    -2
    April 13 2012 11: 58
    The author made his work easier - just reprinted some kind of fascist book of memoirs of a beaten "strategist"? Well, why? For me, as a grandson of a participant in those events, it is just an insult, to see something like that on the pages of a patriotic site!
    If the author conducted some historical research and then shared their results, then I am ready to read the most bitter truth - and so ...
    May I break the rules here. in order to fully express your emotions?
    1. Rodver
      +8
      April 13 2012 12: 10
      Objective article. But what, it is necessary to present the story so that everything is smooth? And the enemy also had worthy and courageous soldiers.
      1. makrus
        +1
        April 13 2012 17: 14
        Quote: Rodver
        Objective article.
        it is not clear why you decided so?
        "The most brutal hand-to-hand combat lasted four hours." am why not 8 hours with a lunch break and afternoon nap?
        "A gap at least a kilometer wide was formed at the line. The command of the 6th Army Corps sent 120 people - drivers, cooks, shoemakers and tailors to repair the hole. These 120 people took up the positions of the 10th company, but they had absolutely no experience of this kind After the mortar shelling, Soviet soldiers rushed at them with shouts of “Hurray!” This turned out to be too much for the nerves of the rear servicemen. They ran and were killed one after another like rabbits.
        When it got dark, the Red Army soldiers from the Kumma regiment in Klepenin separated the entire 50 meters.
        From the regiment commander to the drivers, everyone prepared to repel the attack, holding carbines, machine guns and machine guns. The headquarters were supported by an anti-tank gun and soldiers of the 561 of the anti-tank battalion, who fought like infantrymen.
        No matter how many times the Red Army men rushed into the attack, they did not manage to approach the headquarters closer than 15 meters. The words of combat reports from the area of ​​the battle are striking in their monstrous simplicity: \ "On the approaches to Klepenin there were mountains of corpses. \" "- from this text it is not at all clear how many people eventually resisted the Russian attack? And if 120 people were their last reserve, how they were able to grind "mountains of corpses"?
      2. Dust
        +3
        April 13 2012 22: 28
        What’s objective here? There is nothing objective here - a typical German boast of a broken TV ..ri ...
        Yes, so that your hands are dried up, among those who are minusers, I suppose you still think yourself patriots ...
  12. Rodver
    +8
    April 13 2012 12: 00
    What a tragedy that such great nations as Russian and German were mercilessly thrashing each other. What steadfastness and sacrifice on both sides. And as always in such wars, the third, "invisible" side wins.
    1. Zynaps
      -2
      April 14 2012 17: 53
      Shaw, again, the Jews took a bite of the Chota? or Dumb s (TM) again encroached on the holy?
  13. 0
    April 13 2012 12: 41
    The article is written on the basis of the military memoirs of the officers of the farm .... And how they like to embellish their victories with their "small number" is known to everyone who has analyzed the documents from both sides at least a little ...
  14. Hauptmannzimermann
    +2
    April 13 2012 14: 47
    The author "ripped" this episode from Paul Karel's book "Hitler goes to the East" as it seems to be called, it is better to read about this period of the war "REFLECTIONS AND MEMORIES" by MARSHAL OF THE SOVIET UNION G.K. Zhukov. It clearly outlines the situation and the reasons that led to the failures at the front.
  15. +1
    April 13 2012 15: 19
    No wonder our generals pass over the battle of Rzhev in silence. Monstrous losses and practically no results. The "Mars" operation conceived near Rzhev was considered as the main one in relation to the "Uranus" operation, and much larger forces were concentrated there, because Stalin was very afraid that the Germans from this area might again strike at Moscow. But our generals did not know how to fight in the modern way, they used primitive tactics - an attack with large forces and stupid in the LOB, over and over again, regardless of losses, not caring about reconnaissance, training, coordination of interaction of infantry, artillery, aviation - all this still had to learn from the ENEMY, who, being at that time the strongest army in the world, possessed this art, which allowed him to defend his positions with incomparably smaller forces and, it would seem, in a hopeless situation, defeat our armies. So this science cost our army VERY DEARLY, and one can only admire the incredible courage of our soldiers who endured the comprehension of this science! Eternal memory to them !!!
    1. makrus
      +1
      April 13 2012 17: 29
      Quote: Goldmitro
      Silent Rzhev battle

      Which one?
      Quote: Goldmitro
      Monstrous losses and practically no results.

      And the environment of the 6th army?
      Quote: Goldmitro
      because Stalin was very afraid that the Germans from this area could again strike at Moscow.

      What is it like? Through the Caucasus?
      Quote: Goldmitro
      hopeless situation defeat our armies

      What are you talking about? what kind of defeat?
      1. 0
        April 14 2012 13: 08
        makrus: << Which one? >>
        It's about Operation Mars
        << And the encirclement of the 6th army? >>
        And how many of our armies were surrounded, it was defeated, and the remaining small groups made their way to their own? All this can be found, there would be a desire.
        << How is it? Through the Caucasus? >>
        But Rzhev, it turns out, is located in the Caucasus region?
        << What are you talking about? what defeat? >>
        Near Rzhev there were several of our offensive operations and all ended in failure with huge losses! All of this can now be easily found, it makes no sense to retell you. The fact of many years of silence with us about the battle of Rzhev speaks for itself, they did not bring laurels to our generals!
        1. makrus
          +1
          April 14 2012 14: 50
          A 42-year-old summer company brought German armies to the banks of the Volga. For the Soviet side it was important: to deprive the enemy of the initiative and impose on him fights in the northern direction from Stalingrad. As a result, our reserves were introduced into the battle as they arrived, which did not allow us to create a strong strike force. But at the same time, there was constant pressure on the enemy, which did not give him the opportunity to transfer troops to Stalingrad. The author of this technique was Zhukov. The decision that he made in this situation is paradoxical enough for the Second World War as a whole. You can blame for unjustified losses, but at the same time, the loss of Stalingrad should be recognized. And, as a result, the encirclement of the 6th Paulus army would not have happened. And where the front in the south would stabilize then, it is not known, and the question of losses also remains relevant.

          Quote: Goldmitro
          But Rzhev, it turns out, is located in the Caucasus region?

          The aim of Operation Blau was the Caucasus
        2. makrus
          0
          April 14 2012 15: 49
          Quote: Goldmitro
          But Rzhev, it turns out, is located in the Caucasus region?

          We are talking about Army Group South, this group could not threaten Moscow.
    2. Zynaps
      0
      April 14 2012 17: 55
      Quote: Goldmitro
      But our generals did not know how to fight in the modern world, they used primitive tactics - an attack with large forces and a TUPO in the forehead, over and over again, ignoring losses, not worrying about reconnaissance, training, coordinating the interaction of infantry, artillery, and aviation


      cried. what experts entered the battle !!!

      Germans had to carry out counterattacks under fire concentrated for breaking through the defense of Soviet artillery. Model biographer S. Newton cites an episode in his book regarding the use of the Great Germany division in the battles for Rzhev. Newton writes: “The divisions had to carry out a series of bloody counterattacks with minimal support from other divisions. On September 30, the officers and soldiers of this elite division nearly rebelled. The 2nd Infantry Regiment, under the command of Colonel Eugen Garski, received a directive from the army headquarters to carry out a counterattack, despite the superiority of the Russians in artillery "(Newton S." Firefighter "Hitler - Field Marshal Model. M .: AST, 2007, p.241). The result of such counterattacks was predictable - Garski himself, several company commanders and hundreds of soldiers of "Great Germany" were killed.
  16. Odinplys
    +4
    April 13 2012 15: 47
    A bow to our Fathers and Grandfathers .... The Great Soviet Union ... !!!
  17. makrus
    +1
    April 13 2012 16: 52
    The article is devoted to the events that unfolded in the winter of 1941-1942 and have nothing to do with Operation Mars. These were two different operations, both in terms of targets and reasons for defeat. You cannot put them in one row. Regarding the encirclement of 29 and 39 of Konev's armies, it should be noted that the Soviet side at that time was not ready to carry out large-scale encirclement operations due to the lack of a sufficient number of tanks.
    The rifle units that were introduced into the breakthrough simply did not have sufficient mobility. Konev should have acted as Zhukov did, delivering several shallow blows. Of course, the goals in this case will be more modest, but on the other hand, the threat of the environment of the shock units was removed.
  18. Sniper 1968
    +2
    April 14 2012 00: 28
    My grandfather, Konstantin, was wounded in these battles. A 9mm bullet fell under his left eye and came out of the base of the skull. He was assembled like a walnut shell by a military doctor-Leningrader from the Military Medical Academy. He lived in a tent for medical battalion. Grandfather lived until 1974 ... Eternal memory to the Heroes of the Great War ...
  19. +2
    April 14 2012 05: 45
    Count, live,
    How long ago
    Was at the front for the first time
    Named suddenly Stalingrad.
    The front burned, not abating,
    As on the body of the scar.
    I'm dead and I do not know,
    Is our Rzhev finally?

    A. T. Tvardovsky
  20. 0
    April 14 2012 17: 44
    Was in the woods near Rzhev. The movie was shot about the attitude of the modern generation to the Second World War. Three steps away from the canteen for the film crew, not in the wild, but in the forest, the props, with the help of a metal detector, removed the remnants of an exploded shell and a lot of iron from the ground .... There, the earth is simply stuffed with metal ... After such cases, the scale of the tragedy is somehow more deeply realized. It's one thing to read a story, it's another to get the "echo of war" out from under your feet. And you are contemplating this with a glass of tea, permanently flaunting from what you see. The boy took with him a metal detector "for fun", he has nothing to do with diggers, and he has no time. (those who worked in the cinema will understand) But how many places we did not change, filming in the forests / fields / rivers / Volga - something rings in the ground everywhere. (not beer cans ...)

    A bow to our Fathers and Grandfathers ...
  21. +3
    April 15 2012 10: 11
    In fact, the topic of the Battle of Rzhev is still waiting for its discoverer - too few facts and data and too many speculation, distortions, hysteria, and even outright lies ...
    For example, Soviet losses in the Battle of Rzhev vary from 1 million to 2,5 million people. - Someone here is clearly lying.
    My opinion on Rzhev is this: it is a classic trench meat grinder in the style of the First World War. But the Germans do not shout about mountains of corpses near Verdun, do not wring their hands, Falkenhayn and Prince Wilhelm are not called butchers, although there is a reason.
    In the end, all these "denunciators" and "rippers of the veils" do not care deeply about the fallen Soviet soldiers - they just need to fulfill the order.
    PS Those Tver officials who allowed the Germans to build a memorial in Rzhev, where during their occupation of 40000 people remained, would be buried next to the Fritz - not because they were so cruel, but because they were the same occupiers.
    1. makrus
      +1
      April 15 2012 13: 13
      Quote: Klibanophoros
      PS Those Tver officials who allowed the Germans to build a memorial in Rzhev,

      fuck