Military Review

BZHRK sacrificed "good relations" with the West?

70
The media reported that the project of the combat railway missile complex (BZHRK) of the new generation Barguzin, which Russia has been developing since the end of 2013, has been temporarily “frozen”. However, the "nightmare of the United States on rails" has already been tested - and experimental development work has been carried out, and even the first experimental successful launch. Moreover, in May 2016, the development of individual elements began, design documentation was worked out, and individual elements of the complex were created. However, the decision to suspend was made, the reasons are not called. One would assume that this is simply prepared misinformation for potential adversaries if there were not a lot of factors affecting the project. On this On the eve.RU told Colonel-General, President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems Leonid Ivashov.


Question: What are the main reasons for the "freezing" of the project, in your opinion?

Leonid Ivashov: There can be two main reasons. The first is “freezing” due to lack of funding. The second reason may be that, in general, to the role of a nuclear strategic weapons attitude changes. Do I need to build it up today? Moreover, the Americans are reducing their ballistic missile programs, switching to new types of strategic weapons. These include high-precision weapons as part of a quick global strike strategy. Moreover, today the Americans are actively developing the drone tactics of drones - it is a cheaper and no less effective means. And cyber weapons come to the fore.

And it is quite possible that both factors played a role: an ideological change in the strategy of our defense, plus we see that there is a huge budget deficit going on in Russia, including because of sanctions and inept organization of the economy.

We must not forget that in the latest version of our military doctrine, special attention is paid to non-nuclear deterrent. It is possible that they considered that today there are enough ballistic intercontinental missiles. But the lack of precision weapons is felt in the same "Caliber", "Zircons" and so on.

BZHRK sacrificed "good relations" with the West?


Question: That is, BZHRK is not just a method of delivering a rocket, is it still building up?

Leonid Ivashov: BZHRK is not only a means of delivery, a means of masking and a means of sudden strike, but it is a build-up in the general system, it is one of the elements of our triad. But here it is also necessary to take into account the factor that “rolling” on railways with nuclear weapons may be unsafe for the country itself. When this question was discussed, whether it is necessary or not necessary, this is a problem of internal security, a bad start, even during test launches, or even an emergency situation also caused great caution. In addition, this train with a combat railway missile system cannot travel on high-speed lines. This also applies to a combination of factors.

Question: Relation to defense is changing in which direction, in your opinion, - cheapening or just building up non-nuclear forces?

Leonid Ivashov: I believe, on building up non-nuclear forces. That is a bet on what the Americans are doing - they even modern submarines with Trident 2 missiles will be converted to cruise missiles. And we must bear in mind that the US missile defense system is being deployed against ballistic missiles. And by 2020, the number of interceptors will exceed the number of Russian ballistic missiles.

Question: At the same time, Vladimir Putin instructs that large enterprises be ready at any moment to embark on military rails - but the BZHRK project is being rolled up. Is it not embedded in this concept?

Leonid Ivashov: No, it is not built in, because nuclear war, especially with the use of strategic nuclear weapons, is excluded. Both Americans and Chinese understand this, and they understand it in Russia. This is the death of mankind. Nuclear weapons today serve as a strategic peacemaker - it does not allow a large war to unfold. But it will still be difficult to contain the war with only one nuclear weapon. Although in our military doctrine it is written that if war will threaten the integrity and existence of our state, we are ready to use nuclear weapons against aggressors who will not use it. But we are talking about tactical nuclear weapons. Strategic can not be applied. Therefore, today they are betting on a non-nuclear deterrent.

And the fact that the president instructed to be ready for the transition to a state of emergency, to a mobilization regime — and it is possible only if martial law is introduced in the country — this indicates the seriousness of the situation. And it seems to me that this mobilization readiness of our industry is the weakest link in general in the defense of the country.

Question: Why?

Leonid Ivashov: Because there is neither a clear legislative regulation, nor reserve capacity, nor, of course, finance, to quickly turn around. Plus - sanctions, plus - the absence of the machine tool industry, the element base and so on. This is the weakest element of our defense.



Question: So, maybe some part of our elites decided to “freeze” the project in order to try again to “make friends” with the West?

Leonid Ivashov: This euphoria from the fact that during the period of sanctions we will increase our own production, we will replace all the technologies that we received from the West - it has evaporated. And today the real situation is such that, alas, we cannot even increase the mass production of those types of weapons that we manufacture ourselves. Therefore, there is an aggravation now, and our Government is trying to find points of contact with the American and the European side in order to weaken these sanctions, because we have been drawn into dependence for too long.

Therefore, most likely, yes, we have public diplomacy, but there is also non-public, covert diplomacy. Most likely, such negotiations are conducted on these "shadow" channels.
Author:
Originator:
https://www.nakanune.ru/articles/113517/
70 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Login_Off
    Login_Off 6 December 2017 15: 10 New
    13

    There is no money, but you hold on.
    1. bandabas
      bandabas 6 December 2017 16: 45 New
      +5
      To complete worthless projects like Skolkovo and other “nana-pseudo-technologies”. And there are money. "Dengi come on, dengi!".
      1. Overlock
        Overlock 6 December 2017 16: 57 New
        +4
        Yes, you just need to steal less
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Siberia 9444
      Siberia 9444 7 December 2017 02: 40 New
      17
      Well yes no money
      1. insular
        insular 8 December 2017 04: 30 New
        0

        So that.
        And now find the difference:

        The heart is a joke, from those who have the same thing in their heads.
  2. Not smart
    Not smart 6 December 2017 15: 39 New
    +1
    I think we are preparing production anyway and are slowly starting to produce parts, but you can say anything you like - and we’re doing it right, it’s time for us to learn to play the words ...
    1. stas
      stas 6 December 2017 20: 18 New
      13
      We both hoped for Humpbacked and EBN, but they showed us the Figs.
      Putin will never betray the oligarchs who brought him to power. It used to be that he disguised himself in the CPSU and the KGB as a Soviet man.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 7 December 2017 00: 10 New
        +3
        Quote: stas
        We both hoped for Humpbacked and EBN, but they showed us the Figs.

        You should not have hoped for them.
        Quote: stas
        Putin will never betray the oligarchs who brought him to power. It used to be that he disguised himself in the CPSU and the KGB as a Soviet man.

        Unlike Humpback and EBN, this one returned to the people the belief that Russia is a great power with interests to be reckoned with. You can now freeze about the fact that “it is believed that athletes are not allowed to go to the Olympics”, but this is just one of the elements of the war being waged by the West against Russia, and the war is not over yet. But the fact that despite our sluggish answers, the West is already standing "on the ears" is visible with the naked eye.
        1. BecmepH
          BecmepH 7 December 2017 10: 07 New
          +4
          Quote: Nyrobsky
          Unlike Humpback and EBN, this one returned faith to the people

          Nuuu .. At you embellished. He didn’t return, but, for now, gave hope ...
        2. stas
          stas 7 December 2017 10: 55 New
          +3
          We were great under the USSR, and now a market flea market according to Putin's capitalist plans.
          Putin praised the actions of EBN by awarding the Order for its great collapse of Russia. This is hypocrisy or cynicism, which is glorified in the EBN center.
  3. antivirus
    antivirus 6 December 2017 15: 44 New
    +1
    then they put a high-precision missile of high range in a 40 f container
    "Meeting the wishes and aspirations of partners, the party and the government considered it possible to change the rhetoric and join the peace initiatives of the world community ..."
  4. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 6 December 2017 15: 48 New
    +7
    War is on the verge, it is a fact. But whether it will be nuclear or not depends on many factors. I would not be so sure that we would not need Barguzin.
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 6 December 2017 16: 01 New
    0
    Maybe they turned for re-equipment, instead of nuclear into a car, something like Caliber and Zircon will be shoved, but more powerful ...
  6. Cat Marquis
    Cat Marquis 6 December 2017 16: 19 New
    +3
    BRBZ only made sense at a time when satellite constellations could not track a moving object in real time and had a low resolution of their cameras. Now progress makes it easy to identify such trains, track them from their maintenance sites (this cannot be avoided in any way, and it can only be carried out in a few specially prepared places), along the route. In addition, the general situation in the country has changed a lot since the times of the USSR, with its threat of terrorism and does not contribute to the constant movement of nuclear weapons on public railways. So, that decision is right.
    1. krops777
      krops777 6 December 2017 16: 33 New
      +6
      BRBZ only made sense at a time when satellite constellations could not track a moving object in real time and had a low resolution of their cameras. Now progress makes it easy to identify such trains, track them from their maintenance sites (this cannot be avoided in any way, and it can only be carried out in a few specially prepared places), along the route.


      It’s extremely expensive to keep a group of 10-12 satellites to track one BZHRK, and it’s not a fact that even with so many satellites they will be able to keep track if the BZHRK is allowed to ride around the country.
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 6 December 2017 18: 50 New
        +3
        It’s enough to set up IP-cameras or conventional DVRs in order to monitor the BZHRK, BZHRK ONLY FOR THE SATELLITE LOOK LIKE OTHER TRAINS! if you look closely at the tractors, on the side of the wagons, and most importantly, the number of trolleys, then it is quite possible to detect it. BUT this is not the most important thing, the BZHRK’s biggest problem is the ease of restricting its movement, it’s easier to destroy the railway easier than steamed turnip. BUT this is not the main reason for the refusal, the biggest problem is its disguise (no matter how silly it sounds but the disguise is harmful) because of the disguise it will not be possible to make standard protection, yes, it can be set, but it will not be effective, and if done effective but disguised ...
        1. sabakina
          sabakina 6 December 2017 19: 43 New
          10
          The rocket under development under the Barguzin will be lighter, respectively, the number of carts will be normal. 2. What is the difference between a side of a civil refrigerator from a "military" and a civil diesel locomotive from a "military"? Will the armor be hung?
      2. iouris
        iouris 10 December 2017 11: 22 New
        0
        Quote: krops777
        It’s an extremely expensive pleasure to keep a group of 10-12 satellites to track one BZHRK

        These satellites are easy to destroy.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. sabakina
      sabakina 6 December 2017 19: 38 New
      11
      Quote: Marquis Cat
      BRBZ only made sense at a time when satellite constellations could not track a moving object in real time and had a low resolution of their cameras.

      Show me a satellite photo where you could read the photographed newspaper spread?
    4. zoolu350
      zoolu350 8 December 2017 06: 50 New
      0
      Well, for the SSM it is really correct, but for Russia it is not. They could not be tracked by satellites, but earlier they were tracked by indirect signs: reinforced tracks, 2 diesel locomotives, a larger number of carriages than on a conventional refrigerator. And barguzin, according to the plan, should not have indirect signs, therefore he is like a bone in the throat for your Fed owners.
    5. Stin u
      Stin u 13 December 2017 02: 27 New
      0
      There were such carriers in the USSR, they were destroyed by Yeltsin ... It is practically impossible to track a train disguised as a ref-squad in the vastness of Russia. How is it not possible to track a missile placed in a truck container? USSR proved it. The only way to track down such weapons is betrayal. It will be a shame when a billion-dollar project is covered with a "copper basin" because of the language of a rotten skinner. This is the main danger.
  7. Sergey-8848
    Sergey-8848 6 December 2017 16: 27 New
    +1
    According to the current opinion of Leonid Ivashov - as part of a conventional war - the use of 10 kt for operational purposes or to prevent the defeat of a group is a prank that does not lead to escalation. We continue the war game further.
  8. Victor_B
    Victor_B 6 December 2017 16: 37 New
    +9
    Quote: Marquis Cat
    BRBZ only made sense at a time when satellite constellations could not track a moving object in real time and had a low resolution of their cameras.

    And nobody told you that satellites NEVER can track anything in real time? They do not hang over one point and cannot fly up when necessary. They fly in orbits. On a clear schedule. And clear skies can be hours.
    And the new BZHRK was just created under the condition of INTEGRITY for air and satellite detection tools from many thousands of refueling cars on railway tracks.
    1. Cat Marquis
      Cat Marquis 6 December 2017 17: 56 New
      +3
      And they don’t need to "hang" (although in fact communication satellites just hang in geostationary orbits), they (satellites) moving "one-by-the-other" transmit a picture to a communication or observation center, where it is automatically, programmatically mounted into an almost continuous "tape". Thus, you can track any selected object in almost real-time mode.
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 6 December 2017 19: 46 New
        +6
        Marquis, do you suggest M. Zadornov’s phrase or do you remember?
        1. Cat Marquis
          Cat Marquis 6 December 2017 21: 18 New
          +2
          Tell me, I forgot.
          1. sabakina
            sabakina 6 December 2017 21: 23 New
            +3
            Quote: Marquis Cat
            Tell me, I forgot.

            Enjoy if you can!
            1. ARES623
              ARES623 6 December 2017 21: 53 New
              +3
              Quote: sabakina
              Enjoy if you can!

              Maybe they are dumb there. But intel is on our table from there, and for the high-quality execution of complex work in oil wells, we invite Schlumberger or Holiberton. So, take care of your hats, especially in our climate ...
            2. Cat Marquis
              Cat Marquis 6 December 2017 21: 58 New
              +3
              Ah, you are about that. Thank. laughing
      2. alstr
        alstr 7 December 2017 10: 21 New
        0
        And such a thing as false compositions are completely discounted?
        And as for the continuity, you remember the Boeing brought down on Dombas.
        And then no one has yet canceled a satellite with nails.
      3. Stin u
        Stin u 13 December 2017 02: 44 New
        0
        No need to dramatize. Tracking trains is not possible in Russia, too large a territory. The main thing is to keep his route a secret. One has only to roll out the train from the hangar, depot and EVERYTHING (!) Look for it - fist it ... Depending on the time of year, the train can be made invisible altogether. Satellites are not so "omnipotent." They are more attributed to filmmakers than they really are. Otherwise, there were no errors in the weather forecast. By the way, trains can move under the cover of clouds. No one has canceled the "science of disguise", mimicry in military affairs is well developed. The composition can ply the steppe and not even cast a shadow.
  9. Victor_B
    Victor_B 6 December 2017 16: 39 New
    +6
    Before just rolling out the special warhead from the storage, the satellite flight schedule is taken, therefore, you will not see any special movement around the territory of the military unit on any satellite photo.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 6 December 2017 19: 47 New
      +6
      Victor, the same time the exit of the nuclear train does not coincide with the passage of the enemy shepigun.
  10. Victor_B
    Victor_B 6 December 2017 16: 43 New
    +9
    Quote: krops777
    It’s extremely expensive to keep a group of 10-12 satellites to track one BZHRK, and it’s not a fact that even with so many satellites they will be able to keep track if the BZHRK is allowed to ride around the country.

    Well, what is holding?
    Nails to heaven to nail?
    They fly in the right place. Sometimes. Scheduled, accurate to seconds.
    The schedule will hang in a frame. In the vestibule of the train. Near each toilet.
    1. Petrol cutter
      Petrol cutter 6 December 2017 21: 07 New
      +1
      Absolutely "in the hole." Let me kiss you.
  11. 75 hammer
    75 hammer 6 December 2017 17: 16 New
    0
    In fact, they do not turn off the BZHRK, it just will be with another carrier of nuclear weapons (the type of train will also change), and with what I will not tell! Guess for yourself.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 6 December 2017 19: 49 New
      +2
      Hammer 75, can they really camouflage under the Peregrine Falcon?
      1. 75 hammer
        75 hammer 7 December 2017 08: 10 New
        0
        No, of course, I can tell you: if you take the look of the most frequently transported goods, then in second place you will see the look of future BZHRK, without which they will not need to be transported by a separate locomotive, but they will move as part of a regular train, and they will be able to start on the go . All further "ts..s" -talker is a godsend for a Jew-bot!
        1. alstr
          alstr 7 December 2017 10: 23 New
          0
          Well, it’s not always possible on the go - wires will interfere. But with a short stop completely.
          1. 75 hammer
            75 hammer 7 December 2017 13: 14 New
            0
            There will be used a device for removing wires, the only thing that may be a speed limit. And in areas of approximate deployment of not enough electrified sites.
            1. alstr
              alstr 7 December 2017 14: 00 New
              0
              How are we going to divert the CROSS wires? Only you can cut them.
              And it seems that now almost all the main routes have been electrified, if my memory serves me right.
              1. 75 hammer
                75 hammer 7 December 2017 15: 08 New
                0
                In fact, in Russia about 50% is electrified, and specify which transverse wires do you mean? The contact wire itself is a very mobile thing, the distance between the supports of 50 meters, the start will be carried out at an angle to the contact suspension.
                1. alstr
                  alstr 7 December 2017 15: 33 New
                  0
                  Cross - this is the one on which the wire is held, along which the current collector is traveling.
                  Plus, the central wire itself must be put somewhere.
                  About a year ago there was an interview with the creator of the previous version of the train. He spoke in detail about launches there.
                  If I remember correctly, then in fact the wires were simply cut, because anyway, at the start they seriously suffer (due to the torch of the rocket).
                  1. 75 hammer
                    75 hammer 7 December 2017 16: 01 New
                    0
                    Mortar start allows you to save wires, and start on the go allows you to save reaction time. Start-up is carried out in the middle of the supports using a special device that allows you to determine the start moment by the tension of the wire, and the wires were cut at the very first "well done", where there were no rods for wire removal. All this is not the point, the very concept of a “quick strike”, which the Russian Federation has adopted, optimizes the means of nuclear deterrence for an instant response to the enemy anywhere in the world, and the delivery vehicles will be very different - remember the "status".
          2. Stin u
            Stin u 13 December 2017 03: 15 New
            0
            Guys !!! Such weapons do not allow launching in "bursts" like from an AKM assault rifle. One, max-mum two starts - EVERYTHING! Mission accomplished. And most importantly, what the Americans were most afraid of under the USSR was to track a train disguised as a “REF composition” thousand times harder and more expensive than a destroyer at sea or a bomber in the sky. Even "calculating" a mine-based missile is much easier. I repeat - to track weapons of this kind can only be in the presence of treason or intelligence. The latter is also very problematic, you can’t put on a “spy” at each railway station. Imagine, today the train is in the Kaliningrad port (loading frozen fish), and a week later it unloads in Vladivostok. And at this time, another, in St. Petersburg or Astrakhan. Podika - track down. Three to five of such formations, and Russian defense would intensify MUCH. So, by and large, the costs of such formulations are quite justified. Trite Americans do not want to upset.
            1. Stin u
              Stin u 13 December 2017 03: 36 New
              0
              By the way, if they asked me, then I launched "plywood" simulators of pieces of commercials 20 on the rails, let them roam around the Country, they show me all the show-offs. From the "plywood" and locomotives can be glued, in general, the wonders of mimicry can be worked out.
  12. Pereira
    Pereira 6 December 2017 19: 51 New
    +1
    With whom, with whom is a good relationship?
  13. Glory1974
    Glory1974 6 December 2017 20: 29 New
    0
    There can be two main reasons. The first is “freezing” due to lack of funding.

    Unspent trillions of rubles remained on budget accounts. There is simply nowhere to put them. Therefore, this is not the reason.
    Although it is written in our military doctrine that if the war threatens the integrity and existence of our state, we are ready to use nuclear weapons against aggressors who will not use it. But we are talking about tactical nuclear weapons. Strategic cannot be applied.

    This is nonsense. The military doctrine says "nuclear weapons." And there is no mention, strategic or tactical. If someone hits us with cruise missiles, we, with a clear conscience, will strike strategic nuclear weapons to stop the war.
    Moreover, this train with a military railway missile system cannot move along high-speed highways.

    And no one forces him to move at speeds under 200 km \ h. On the contrary, expressways are modernized, reinforced and perfectly fit the BZHRK.
  14. Old26
    Old26 6 December 2017 20: 50 New
    +3
    Quote: sabakina
    Show me a satellite photo where you could read the photographed newspaper spread ?.

    And this is not necessary. In order to identify any object with a 100% guarantee it is necessary that the minimum size of the object differs from the resolution of the satellite camera by about 5 times. That is, if the minimum size of the wagon is the width of the wagon, for example 4 meters, then the resolution should be 0,8 m, not 1 meter or 2. Modern satellites of the Keyhole teak have a resolution of 0,15 meters, that is 15 centimeters. This value is sufficient to determine the object. And there is no need to read a newspaper sheet. Of course, it is impossible to immediately identify the location and the route, but 2-3 months will pass - and there will be no problems. I am not talking about access to the Russian Railways network.

    Quote: Victor_B
    And the new BZHRK was just created under the condition of INTEGRITY for air and satellite detection tools from many thousands of refueling cars on railway tracks.

    No one knows what the configuration of this composition is. If the basis is the same configuration as before, that is, several locomotives, then the question of difference is not worth it at all. 2 dozens of cars with three locomotives - well, you have to be blind in order not to determine what it is.

    Quote: sabakina
    Victor, the same time the exit of the nuclear train does not coincide with the passage of the enemy shepigun.

    And the movement on the highway?

    Quote: krops777
    It’s extremely expensive to keep a group of 10-12 satellites to track one BZHRK, and it’s not a fact that even with so many satellites they will be able to keep track if the BZHRK is allowed to ride around the country.

    That is unnecessary. The number of satellites may be less than 9 purely military), but in addition to purely military, there are also dual-use satellites, in particular remote sensing satellites. And not only the USA. If necessary, satellites of NATO countries are connected, as a result, the time between flights of satellites is reduced. And then the usual, routine work. View hundreds of photographs, detailing individual fragments, plus modern technology related to computer technology.
    1. Cat Marquis
      Cat Marquis 6 December 2017 21: 20 New
      +4
      To whom do you explain this .... your opponents still "live" in the 80s of the 20th century .... wink
    2. Stin u
      Stin u 13 December 2017 03: 48 New
      0
      The composition can be made according to the principle of electric sections (in common parlance - electric trains), one, maximum two locomotives for generating electricity, and all wheel pairs are LEADING. No problems. And it will fly under a hundred. I think the designers are not fools and there are plenty of options as well as solutions.
  15. Nemesis
    Nemesis 6 December 2017 20: 55 New
    0
    Rather, Russophobia Chubais and Sobchak, who go to the GDP in friendship ...
  16. Old26
    Old26 6 December 2017 21: 50 New
    +3
    Quote: glory1974
    And no one forces him to move at speeds under 200 km \ h. On the contrary, expressways are modernized, reinforced and perfectly fit the BZHRK.

    When the old BZHRK went on the route along the Trans-Siberian Railway - hemorrhoids began for everyone. The average speed along the Trans-Siberian Railway was 60-80 kilometers, and the BZHRK was moving at a speed of about 45. Do you want to put it on high-speed highways? A high-speed train will trail behind him, but not one. It’s the same as writing on the roof of wagons for the adversary - ATTENTION IS BZHRK
    1. Stin u
      Stin u 13 December 2017 03: 26 New
      0
      The "high-speed" lines in Russia were cut off ... But in any case, all these issues are completely resolved. And the Moscow-Peter direction is not the only one in Russia. You can also get to St. Petersburg not only through Moscow. Look on the map of Russia railway roads. Yes, not only satellites can be confused there. In satellites, when tracking 4 - 5 of such compounds in the open spaces of Rashi, the "brains" will melt.
    2. Stin u
      Stin u 13 December 2017 03: 51 New
      0
      45 km. per hour is the average speed of a passenger train. I repeat my comment: - The train can be made according to the principle of electric sections (in common parlance - electric trains), one, maximum two locomotives for generating electricity, and all wheel pairs are LEADERS. No problems. And it will fly under a hundred. I think the designers are not fools and there are plenty of options as well as solutions.
  17. Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo 6 December 2017 22: 04 New
    +2
    In addition to "media information" from confidential sources, is there any other information about the termination of the program? Maybe you should wait before writing articles?
  18. TOR2
    TOR2 6 December 2017 22: 39 New
    +2
    If for some reason we postpone the creation of the “sword”, then no one bothers to create the “shield”. Fortunately, the ABM contract ordered a long life. One can only welcome that at the Research Institute of Radio Instrument Engineering and the Physico-Technical Institute. Joffe blew the dust off some projects. True, sometimes it looks ridiculous in the media.

    No super-deep knowledge is needed to understand that it is not possible to install such power on the ground. In stationary execution, it will be too vulnerable. But on the rails it will look quite interesting. Here it is just possible to create trains for the Moscow Region with three diesel locomotives and refrigerated wagons. An average diesel locomotive will serve as a mobile power station. In a few years we will get real experience in operating such trains in modern conditions.
    Moreover, such a setup, in addition to the plasmids in another mode, can create voltage on the target’s surface that destroys the equipment. And the bonus will be the ability to create various types of noise signals in the medium that make it impossible to receive digital signals from orbit in the desired sector.
    How many similar trains can an MO request? If for example 30 or 40. Tracking from orbit is already problematic. Yes, of course there is a digital processing of a large number of photos an interesting program. But what if, in contrast to this program, another program will work on board the train, which will control the flipping camouflage located on the roofs. In this situation, a lot of pictures can be processed indefinitely, and with 0 result.
    1. Login_Off
      Login_Off 7 December 2017 08: 55 New
      +1
      American Haarp, this should be done from the idea. But here is the problem, he really did not work ... Stationary! And you want to make it mobile. It’s better to do railguns then, they consume less energy.
      1. TOR2
        TOR2 7 December 2017 10: 07 New
        +1
        HAARP appeared because of the policy of the damned Adyashka and K. When some details of the Sura project became known behind a puddle. Antenna complex "Sura" is an experimental installation laying the foundation for the project "Trust". In addition to the intended impact, the developers were faced with an unexpected rather interesting side effect. Then came the 90s and the project was closed. Now, apparently, life makes us remember.
  19. Old26
    Old26 7 December 2017 00: 53 New
    +3
    Quote: TOR2
    How many similar trains can an MO request? If for example 30 or 40. Tracking from orbit is already problematic. Yes, of course there is a digital processing of a large number of photos an interesting program. But what if, in contrast to this program, another program will work on board the train, which will control the flipping camouflage located on the roofs. In this situation, a lot of pictures can be processed indefinitely, and with 0 result.

    And how will you deceive Earth remote sensing satellites? After all, they are shooting not only in the panchrome range, but also in several spectral ranges, plus the border ranges. And it may turn out that in the panchrome you will not see the train, but in the blue, green, infrared or blue-green range - easily. Plus satellites with radar, and even with SA. You will be deceived by them.
    1. Crossbill
      Crossbill 7 December 2017 05: 17 New
      +4
      Suggest disbanding the Topol regiments of mine-based and wheelbases, as well as cutting all of the Tu-160, Tu-95 and RPKSN. They are also visible from satellites. And you will have a barrel of jam and a basket of cookies.
  20. Old26
    Old26 7 December 2017 00: 54 New
    +2
    Quote: TOR2
    No super-deep knowledge is needed to understand that it is not possible to install such power on the ground. In stationary execution, it will be too vulnerable. But on the rails it will look quite interesting. Here it is just possible to create trains for the Moscow Region with three diesel locomotives and refrigerated wagons. An average diesel locomotive will serve as a mobile power station. In a few years we will get real experience in operating such trains in modern conditions.
    Moreover, such a setup, in addition to the plasmids in another mode, can create voltage on the target’s surface that destroys the equipment. And the bonus will be the ability to create various types of noise signals in the medium that make it impossible to receive digital signals from orbit in the desired sector.

    Dust off the TRUST project? Oh well
    1. TOR2
      TOR2 7 December 2017 20: 58 New
      0
      Yes, a campaign from him. An interesting development, to say the least - a new word in the weapons system.
      Quote: Old26
      And it may turn out that in the panchrome you will not see the train, but in the blue, green, infrared or blue-green range - easily. Plus satellites with radar, and even with SA. You will be deceived by them.
      Here it is definitely impossible to say that everything is lost. For example, the first locomotive may consist of two sections of diesel and electric locomotive. The transition from one type of traction to another healthy will change the picture in the spectral range. To help you already finished "inflatable" operating time. For example, if an inflatable T-72 is similar to a real one only visually, then anti-tank weapons will not bite it. It turns out either we lower our hands - or roll up our sleeves.
      In addition, we are talking about the trains of the Moscow Region, which will be related either to missile defense or to air defense. And based on our experience, we will see how real the BZHRK is in the current conditions.
  21. Old26
    Old26 7 December 2017 10: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: Crossbill
    Suggest disbanding the Topol regiments of mine-based and wheelbases, as well as cutting all of the Tu-160, Tu-95 and RPKSN. They are also visible from satellites. And you will have a barrel of jam and a basket of cookies.

    Do not distort. We are talking about the fact that modern means of reconnaissance BZHRK unlike PGRK detected. Since attached to the paths. And having a certain set of tools in orbit, it’s pretty easy to find
  22. vasya.pupkin
    vasya.pupkin 7 December 2017 13: 21 New
    +1
    If you take your 115 lards from the mattresses, then it’s enough not only for the BRD, but also for much more.
  23. Old26
    Old26 7 December 2017 16: 45 New
    0
    Quote: Hammer 75
    In fact, in Russia about 50% is electrified, and specify which transverse wires do you mean? The contact wire itself is a very mobile thing, the distance between the supports of 50 meters, the start will be carried out at an angle to the contact suspension.

    Yah? Exactly at an angle to the suspension? And what for then was ZOKS, if at an angle to the suspension ???

    Quote: Hammer 75
    Mortar start allows you to save wires, and start on the go allows you to save reaction time. Start-up is carried out in the middle of the supports using a special device that allows you to determine the start moment by the tension of the wire, and the wires were cut at the very first "well done", where there were no rods for wire removal. All this is not the point, the very concept of a “quick strike”, which the Russian Federation has adopted, optimizes the means of nuclear deterrence for an instant response to the enemy anywhere in the world, and the delivery vehicles will be very different - remember the "status".

    Start on the go ??? Where are you dear this nonsense have read ??? Start has always been with a "stop". PP was put forward for accurate determination, then if the site was electrified, the ZOKS was put forward and only after all this a start was made. What are you writing, sorry BULLSHIT
    Start-up is carried out in the middle of the supports using a special device that allows you to determine the start time by the tension of the wire, and the wires were cut at the very first "well done", where there were no rods for wire removal.

    The very first and subsequent "Well done" were not. ZOKS stood on the very first and latest compositions and no one NOT CUT contact network. You are our expert ....
    You can recall the “Status” for another 50 years and voice it to your descendants in your memoirs
  24. 406ppm2gv
    406ppm2gv 7 December 2017 20: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Marquis Cat
    BRBD made sense only at a time when satellite constellations could not track a moving object in real time and had a low resolution of their cameras. Now progress makes it easy to identify such trains, track them from their technical locations service (this cannot be avoided in any way, and it can be carried out only in a few specially prepared places), along the entire route. In addition, the general situation in the country has changed a lot since the times of the USSR, with its threat of terrorism and does not contribute to the constant movement of nuclear weapons on public railways. So, that decision is right.
    [i] [/ i] so how many more false trains will be ......
  25. Old26
    Old26 7 December 2017 22: 11 New
    0
    Quote: TOR2
    For example, the first locomotive may consist of two sections of diesel and electric locomotive. The transition from one type of traction to another healthy will change the picture in the spectral range.

    Kamrad! I understand that you are trying to defend your point of view, but to make one section electric, and the second diesel, and so on all locomotives, frankly ... stupid. Such trains most often do not go along electrified tracks. And carrying one electric locomotive section with you is such a unmasking sign that there is no need for better. Even if it somehow changes the picture in some of the spectral ranges, the shooting then goes through several channels at once. If you, as an analyst, get a photo of a locomotive in which one section is diesel and the other is electric - this will not cause confusion. especially since no one ever does this. In the best case, when entering an electrified highway, the locomotive changes, but it never happened that the train was pulled by two such diverse locomotives at once

    Quote: TOR2
    To help you already finished "inflatable" operating time. For example, if an inflatable T-72 is similar to a real one only visually, then anti-tank weapons will not bite it. It turns out either we lower our hands - or roll up our sleeves.

    Visually, it may be similar. But in the infrared spectrum, for example? Or in any of the others? Or how it can "glow" with a radar image of the area. No one can track the tank, but the BZHRK is mandatory.

    Quote: TOR2
    In addition, we are talking about the trains of the Moscow Region, which will be related either to missile defense or to air defense. And based on our experience, we will see how real the BJRK is in the current conditions.

    The air defense / missile systems will be “lit up” due to the presence of radar in their composition. And it should not be one in them, especially when it comes to long-range systems. Will be cleaned in the car? But at the same time, the meaning of such compounds is lost. If the radars are "in combat" - the question is in size. If the line is electrified, the radar "will not stand up for combat." Tear the power line? It means to de-energize the entire track. If such a train is to guard the facility (plant, for example), then it should at least take a position from the direction of the highest probability of attack. And a train standing motionless for some time in a place where such trains have never stood is already a unmasking sign. In any case, such a train will attract attention.
    The BZHRK is no longer real in the current situation, since it cannot move freely in absolutely all directions, unlike the same air defense / missile train. The structure of the train, its configuration is quite peculiar. In any case, not so much time will pass before its "habitat" is localized. This is a rather difficult matter, but it is not impossible. Despite the fact that if during the time of the Union three divisions of seven planned were deployed, now we are talking about one division. And to concentrate effort on one deployment point, and not on the entire territory of the country, is much simpler.

    Quote: 406ppmp2gv
    so how many more false trains will be ......

    it is necessary to understand to inspectors that you will also show false thereby signing when we violate the SALT / START treaty ??
  26. Conductor
    Conductor 10 December 2017 07: 38 New
    0
    Who the thread will reassure this Mr. PU. He is a foster EBN.
  27. Old26
    Old26 14 December 2017 15: 26 New
    0
    However, how your posts are scattered throughout the topic. The last post was on December 10, and here several at once are among the answers of December 7 and later. C'mon, this is a problem for administrators ....

    Quote: Stin U
    Guys !!! Such weapons do not allow launching in "bursts" like from an AKM assault rifle. One, max-mum two starts - EVERYTHING! Mission accomplished.

    The task is generally considered completed when the regiment fired completely, and not partially. But I agree with you. Nobody shoots 'bursts'

    Quote: Stin U
    And most importantly, what the Americans were most afraid of under the USSR was to track a train disguised as a “REF composition” thousand times more difficult and more expensive than a destroyer at sea or a bomber in the sky ..

    You are absolutely right in writing that it was harder to do. But the emphasis must be placed on the word IT WAS и Were afraid. But this is in the past. Indeed, it was difficult to identify the train standing on the semi-station as the BZHRK, especially if the locomotives were absent or interlocked. But this is with those satellite resolutions. Now it is possible to determine with 100% accuracy that this BZHRK is possible if, moreover, it has the same configuration as before. Not much could be found in the country of REF trains, consisting of 14 cars and 3 locomotives. And even then if they were spotted, it was determined what kind of compounds they were.

    Quote: Stin U
    tracking weapons of this kind can only be in the presence of betrayal or intelligence. The latter is also very problematic, you can’t put on a “spy” at each train station ..

    Is intelligence only routing agents? Electronic intelligence, radar, visual ground, ortho-electronic and in various parts of the spectrum, in the end, cyber intelligence - have they already been canceled or are they in such an embryonic state that cannot be used?

    Quote: Stin U
    Imagine, today the train stands in the Kaliningrad port (loads frozen fish), and a week later it unloads in Vladivostok. And at this time, another, in St. Petersburg or Astrakhan. Podika - track down. Three to five of such compositions, and the Russian defense would intensify MUCH ..

    Judging by your statement, you do not know at all. what is such a train and the so-called "habitat". I'll start with the second. Such structures did not ride across any expanses of the entire Soviet Union. They did not go beyond the areas of deployment of one or another division. Yes, these deployment areas were larger than some conventional ones, but they were finite. And by the way, how can you now load fish in Kaliningrad, and then drive this train through the territory of NATO countries ... ??? Well, that’s true, by the way.
    But you can take a map and see the deployment area of ​​such trains. The compositions of the Kostroma division reached Vyazma in the west, Petrozavodsk in the north, Saransk in the south, and Kirova in the east (now Vyatka, EMNIP)
    At the Perm division, the west was limited by the Volga ... So there is no fantasy that today the squad was in Kaliningrad, and a week later in Vladivostok, you should not dream of it. Moreover, no other cars were hooked to the trains. They were not loaded or unloaded anywhere at the stations. Moreover, they did not stop at the stations at all. I’m not even talking about the autonomy of the composition, but also about how many people withstood.

    Quote: Stin U
    There were such carriers in the USSR, they were destroyed by Yeltsin ... It is practically impossible to track a train disguised as a ref-squad in the vastness of Russia. How is it not possible to track a missile placed in a truck container? USSR proved it. The only way to track down such weapons is betrayal. It will be a shame when a billion-dollar project is covered with a "copper basin" because of the language of a rotten skinner. This is the main danger.

    Actually, Putin destroyed them. There were never missiles in trucks in the Union. Yes, it was believed that it would be more difficult to track them, but how and how is unknown

    Quote: Stin U
    No need to dramatize. Tracking trains is not possible in Russia, too large a territory. The main thing is to keep his route a secret. One has only to roll out the train from the hangar, depot and EVERYTHING (!) Look for it - fistula it .. Depending on the time of year, the train can be made invisible altogether. Satellites are not so "omnipotent." They are more attributed to filmmakers than they really are. Otherwise, there were no errors in the weather forecast. .

    Tracking is difficult, but that doesn’t mean at all that it’s impossible. And with the weather forecast ... The thing is that there are no meteorological satellites, just like there are no stationary posts in villages that were before and which created that massive

    Quote: Stin U
    By the way, trains can move under the cover of clouds. No one has canceled the "science of disguise", mimicry in military affairs is well developed. The composition can ply the steppe and not even cast a shadow.

    Yes, did he become a vampire so as not to cast shadows? And what if there is no cloudiness or is it torn?

    Quote: Stin U
    The "high-speed" lines in Russia were cut off ... But in any case, all these issues are completely resolved. And the Moscow-Peter direction is not the only one in Russia. You can also get to St. Petersburg not only through Moscow. Look on the map of Russia railway roads. Yes, not only satellites can be confused there. In satellites, when tracking 4 - 5 of such compounds in the open spaces of Rashi, the "brains" will melt.

    What should I watch. It was not I who suggested launching the BZHRK on highways. And whether it is solvable or not - shows reality. To a certain point on the route, the composition of the Krasnoyarsk division "Lomal" the entire schedule on the Trans-Siberian Railway, because it was moving at a speed lower than the rest of the trains

    Quote: Stin U
    In satellites, when tracking 4 - 5 of such compounds in the open spaces of Rashi, the "brains" will melt.

    Why did it happen?

    Quote: Stin U
    By the way, if they asked me, then I launched "plywood" simulators of pieces of commercials 20 on the rails, let them roam around the Country, they show me all the show-offs. From the "plywood" and locomotives can be glued, in general, the wonders of mimicry can be worked out.

    Well, will you also show inspectors plywood models?