Military Review

Contract or draft

125
Contract or draftThe reduction in the length of term service in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation to one year, the qualitative improvement in the conditions of service, a significant reduction in the number of cases of non-statutory relations, have practically brought to nothing the talk that Russia needs a professional army. It was confirmed that if the conditions of service are normal, then “there is nothing bad except good,” it does not exist.


Recently, however, these conversations have resumed. True, now they come from the public in no way, but only from individual political parties and activists and human rights activists who are closely associated with them. These people no longer bring any intelligible arguments in favor of a professional army, but they demand a transition to it immediately. Which is completely understandable. The parties and figures demanding this are, as a rule, rather closely connected with a number of foreign countries, who extremely dislike the sharp strengthening of the RF Armed Forces. At the same time, the armies of these countries have no chance of defeating the Russian army on the battlefield. Therefore, it must be destroyed from the inside. There are only two ways to do this: a sharp reduction in military spending (“A sharp sword and a durable shield is the best guarantee for the prosperity of the state”, “NVO” from 25.08.17) and the transition to a professional army.

HOPES FOR MERCENARIES NO

It has been repeatedly said and written that a professional, that is, purely hired army, is not capable of waging a serious war, implying a high level of losses, due to a fundamental change in the motivation of personnel.

The principle “one can kill for money but one cannot die” has not been canceled and will never be canceled, and statements like “the military profession is the same as everyone else” or “let people serve by vocation” either complete incompetence or propaganda lie. Professionals can either serve for big money in a non-military army or, at best, participate in punitive-type operations against a obviously weaker opponent. At the same time, the transition to a professional army disfigures the psychology not only of the army itself, but also of society as a whole - it ceases to feel its involvement in the defense of the country.

The Iraqi grouping, which in August 1990 had invaded Kuwait, was only slightly larger than the professional forces of Kuwait. The latter, however, instantly collapsed, with little resistance to the aggressor.

The armies of the “senior comrades” of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are also, of course, purely professional, with a very high level of monetary allowance for these same professionals, as well as with a huge amount of the latest combat equipment of all classes. At the same time, they have been fighting in Yemen for almost three years so badly that it is even too much for the professionals (see “NVO” from 21.04.17 “Yemen is the second front for Syria”). It’s impossible to write this off to the specifics of the Arab mentality simply because on the other side of the front are also Arabs (as, by the way, in the aforementioned case with Kuwait).

The call is formally maintained in Georgia, but all combat brigades have long been purely professional, built according to NATO standards. In August, 2008, they relatively successfully launched a punitive operation against an incomparably weaker militia of South Ossetia. The grouping of the Russian Armed Forces, which came to the aid of the Ossetians, was at first even inferior by the forces of the Georgian Armed Forces (at least on land). Nevertheless, the Georgian army instantly collapsed and fled. That is, she behaved exactly as it should be for professionals trained in NATO standards.

Shortly before his overthrow, then-President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych made the Ukrainian army fully professional, canceling the call. By that time, the efforts of both Yanukovich himself and all three of his predecessors in the presidency of the Ukrainian army had been ruined to such an extent that, objectively speaking, the method of recruiting it had no special significance. With the beginning of the civil war, the call in the Ukrainian Armed Forces was, of course, restored by the new authorities. Only because of this, the Ukrainian army was able to somehow fight. Now, however, tse Europe is trying, like Georgia, to fit into NATO standards. The call, of course, is not canceled, but serious efforts are being made to professionalize the army. Contract servicemen in the Armed Forces of Ukraine receive about 10 thousand hryvnia (about 25 thousand rubles), which by local standards is not just good money, but almost mad. As a result, as one would expect, the lumpen went to the professionals “by vocation”, often under the slogan: “Than they mobilize me for free, it’s better to go there for money”.

First of all, it is professionals who recruit the newly formed brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, including the 4 Army Corps, designed to repel Russian aggression from the Crimea (see “NVO” from 11.08.17 “Way to Nowhere”). For some reason, the aggression does not start at all, and the corps is already suffering very serious losses. Hospitals of settlements in the south of the Kherson region are crammed with professionals who, having come to serve "by vocation," because of the mass drunkenness, so successfully destroy themselves and each other, that any aggressor will envy. And this is no anomaly, on the contrary, the professional army should be like this.

AMERICANS DISAPPEARED TO FIGHT

Recently released in the US, the manual on the war with Russia - “Russian new generation warfare handbook” on the Russian Internet has already been ridiculed, and on the whole deserved. For example, did you know that almost all modern means of ground defense and electronic warfare of the RF Armed Forces are located in Kaliningrad, in Ukraine and in Syria? This is written in earnest, this is now the level of American military analysts. In fact, this degree of inadequacy even scares a little. But about themselves the authors of this work know much more than about us. And they write a certain amount of "lack of truth". First of all, that the US Armed Forces have simply forgotten how to fight a serious adversary, they have neither the practical experience of such a war, nor the psychological readiness for it. Here is one of the passages to this account:

“The current opinion that“ if it is necessary for the head, then it is ours, ”is potentially destructive for the American forces. Worse, enemy EW can interfere with the actions of our UAVs. In this case, the American forces may assume that all air assets belong to the enemy, and respond accordingly before the “friend – foe” system works. The process of responding to enemy UAVs must be worked out in advance, like any other task. When the enemy UAV is overhead, it’s too late to explain the course of action. ”

A short explanation to this wonderful paragraph. American soldiers have long known that any aircraft above their heads is their own. If this suddenly turns out to be wrong, and the enemy also uses electronic warfare, then soldiers can even really shoot their drones with fear. Moreover, in this paragraph we are talking only about the possible use by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation of unarmed reconnaissance tactical UAVs, and nothing more! Because the entire American masterpiece is written on the basis of a completely surprising assumption that the manned combat Aviation Russia will not apply at all. Why - ask the authors. And this is written about the American army, whose level of both technical equipment and combat and moral-psychological training is an order of magnitude higher than in the European armies. “If the cream is bad, then what is milk?”

MONEY DOES NOT DIE

The basis of this situation is precisely that the American army (and almost all European) are professional. As mentioned above, professionals will not die for any money (and just serve in peacetime - only for very big money), except for moments of strong patriotic recovery (as after the events of 11 of September of 2001), which can only be very short-term. That is, a professional army will fight only if the losses do not exceed the level of statistical error. This is achieved only in the case of absolute superiority over the enemy, both quantitative and qualitative. Absolute qualitative technical superiority is extremely expensive, which is in contradiction with the achievement of more and quantitative superiority in conjunction with very high costs for the maintenance of personnel. As a result, a vicious circle arises: by spending more and more money, Western armies can fight with increasingly weaker opponents. This also applies to the US Armed Forces, for which you have to write such amazing manuals, there is nothing to say about the Europeans.

It must be emphasized that all Western military victories over the past three decades (two Iraqis, Yugoslavia, Libya) were achieved not due to the professionalism of the personnel, but precisely due to the overwhelming technological and quantitative superiority over the enemy’s armed forces (especially in the air) and, no less It is important, due to the same absolute economic superiority - when you can afford the cost of the war no less than the damage inflicted on the enemy. But the fact of the matter is that it will not be possible to win such victories over some countries, and Western professionals will no longer be able to fight differently, even the Americans, not to mention Europeans.

ALTERNATIVES NO

However, the West has no way out of this impasse, since it arose from the state of societies as a whole. Germany until recently held the call, but was forced to cancel it in 2010, because it lost its meaning: more than half of the draftees chose the alternative service (therefore, canceling the call upset social agencies more than the leadership of the Bundeswehr).

In Russia, the alternative service, fortunately, chooses less than 1% recruits. I would like to hope that we will never reach the German state. For Russia to remain Russia, and its army as an army, there can be no question of canceling the draft. One-year term of service in conscription in peacetime must be entered in Art. 59 Constitution of the Russian Federation.

Of course, any recruiting army is in fact mixed, but the contractor must first serve a fixed year of conscription. And it is very desirable that only those who served a conscription year and not less than two years under the contract could become an officer. Evasion of conscription should not be punished in a criminal procedure, but with a defeat of rights, which should also be written in the Constitution. More about this was discussed in the article "Long disputes - empty cases" ("NVO", 28.06.13).

The West will be able to defeat Russia only if the Russian army becomes the same as its own armies. And the East will be able to defeat Russia only in the same case. Therefore, it is so critical that the Russian army remains Russian. The draft principle of recruitment underlies this concept, therefore, it must always be.
Author:
Originator:
http://nvo.ng.ru/polemic/2017-10-27/1_971_professionals.html
125 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. The black
    The black 28 October 2017 15: 02 New
    20
    Contract or draft
    Mixed ... Combat units should be formed exclusively by contract soldiers. Citizens who have been called up should serve in educational units. The male population of the state should be trained in military specialties and the ability to use weapons and military equipment.
    1. Krabik
      Krabik 28 October 2017 16: 55 New
      +4
      To send graduates of schools or vocational schools to hot spots, as in Afghanistan or Chechnya I consider a crime against the people.

      If the leadership has a desire to fight, let them send their children to war for food.

      But to keep the male population in good shape from a possible invasion is a good idea.

      So I'm also for a mixed army.
      1. models
        models 29 October 2017 15: 07 New
        0
        Quote: Krabik
        To send graduates of schools or vocational schools to hot spots, as in Afghanistan or Chechnya I consider a crime against the people.
        Even without a hot spot. I got a kid a profession at a vocational school or university, but instead of going to work right away until I forgot what I managed to learn, I’m going to do something completely different from what he has in his diploma. Likely that the economy was more competitive.
        Quote: Krabik
        But to keep the male population in good shape from a possible invasion is a good idea.
        In the USSR, a large part of the male population also served to sense? Many of those self-defense brigades who served in the 90s from their fellows (many of whom were just sloping) successfully repulsed themselves?
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 28 October 2017 16: 58 New
      +6
      Quote: Black
      Contract or draft
      Mixed ... Combat units should be formed exclusively by contract soldiers. Citizens who have been called up should serve in educational units. The male population of the state should be trained in military specialties and the ability to use weapons and military equipment.

      I don’t think so. Everyone should serve, including in combat units. And regularly called up for dues after military service. And in the framework of fees, if necessary, to participate in hostilities. Police special forces as well as special forces of special services - yes, this is for the pros.
      1. Cannonball
        Cannonball 28 October 2017 18: 13 New
        +1
        Sending non-professionals to slaughter is a crime. Maximum - in terms of support and supply outside the combat zone.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 28 October 2017 19: 22 New
          10
          Quote: Cannonball
          Sending non-professionals to slaughter is a crime. Maximum - in terms of support and supply outside the combat zone.

          Conscripts can also be professionally prepared, but the service life should be at least 2 years.
          1. Aleksandr_5
            Aleksandr_5 28 October 2017 21: 25 New
            +4
            Exactly, 2 years! drinks We somehow served. And no big deal! wink It was not by the end of the first year, but by the demobilization (by the end of the second year of service), "the longing for mother’s pies and the remnants of infantilism" came out of one place. good
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 28 October 2017 23: 46 New
              +2
              Exactly, 2 of the year! In the first year, you can teach conscripts how to handle weapons entrusted to them, to get them to understand their weapons, equipment “satisfactorily”, and partly “good.” But practical experience is needed, and the skills should be “perfectly” consolidated (developed); and this requires a second year. In order to have motivation to serve 2 of the year, so that "public" organizations are not hysterical, certain changes (improvements) in the existing order of service are needed. But this can be a topic for a separate "conversation".
              1. Cannonball
                Cannonball 29 October 2017 17: 34 New
                +1
                It depends on how you cook. Intensive training in extreme conditions makes fighters for several months. Another thing is that future fighters did not endanger their lives ahead of time.
            2. Cannonball
              Cannonball 29 October 2017 17: 31 New
              0
              Do you want 6 months? And with special need, 3 was considered enough. Verified on your own skin.
          2. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 28 October 2017 23: 28 New
            +1
            You really speak with my mouth! wink I completely agree . drinks
          3. Cannonball
            Cannonball 29 October 2017 17: 25 New
            0
            Nobody trained me professionally. Three months, so to speak, "training" and "into battle." This should not be.
      2. mat-vey
        mat-vey 29 October 2017 17: 22 New
        0
        Maintenance of sophisticated equipment is for the pros ...
    3. Per se.
      Per se. 28 October 2017 20: 13 New
      +8
      Quote: Black
      Combat units must be formed exclusively by contract soldiers.
      And the "non-combat" parts of the conscripts? Who will defend the Motherland, if a war happens, only “contract soldiers”, the rest cannot, because they have not prepared enough “cannon fodder”, against their will, without a material incentive? Maybe it’s enough to divide the army into combat and non-combat ("amusing"), army for war and army for peacetime ... During the war, the whole country is inevitably divided into those who will be at the front and those who will be for the front. According to this principle, the call must be organized, and the population, including women, should be trained. The word “contract soldier” is abhorrent to me in general, there used to be a notion of an “extra term conscript” who served an urgent, after having decided, remained in the army, it is completely different than the one who came “for work” who had not served on duty and constitution. Under the constitution, serve three years as a debt, but choose the best for the army ("combat units"), with bonuses and benefits, and for the "rear" (working as a foundation for the army, for those who really serve), everyone else, including the lame and short-sighted people, including women (during the war there are no liberated from helping the front, from the need to defend the country). And, it is not necessary here to steam with the "alternative service", you can not, do not want, do not need in the army, work for the army, work out your constitutional duty. As for the “contract soldiers,” these should be primarily overtime members, and not “hired workers,” but the women who came to earn extra money should be saved up for a full life. In this sense, the army must be of mixed recruitment, with a core of well-trained conscripts, and with the prevailing motivation for the idea, not for the money.
      1. Aleksandr_5
        Aleksandr_5 28 October 2017 21: 27 New
        +2
        True to all 100%!
      2. Dart2027
        Dart2027 29 October 2017 07: 33 New
        +1
        Quote: Per se.
        Who will defend their homeland, if there is a war, only "contract soldiers", the rest cannot

        The war is almost continuous, in fact, we are fighting now, it’s another matter that wars can be of different types.
        1) Large-scale, when a significant part of the country's population is directly involved in the database.
        2) Local, when the number of warring is small.
        Using conscripts directly in the database is necessary and justified in the first case. But in the second, there are enough employees professionally.
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 29 October 2017 10: 36 New
          0
          Quote: Dart2027
          Using conscripts directly in the database is necessary and justified in the first case. But in the second, there are enough employees professionally.
          Nobody argues with this, speaking of mixed recruitment, but ... To the relatives of the deceased soldier, especially the closest ones, he did not matter whether he was a contract soldier or a conscript. Secondly, a single conscript can be more effective in terms of a set of personal qualities and general combat training, a single contract soldier. Finally, not every contractor may wish to get into the hot spot, as well as not every conscript is necessarily against participation in hostilities. So, the conclusion is that it is impossible to divide the army into combat and "not combat", that any soldier must be a soldier for the war, be well prepared for that. Otherwise, it is difficult to disagree that, for example, special forces, separate assault groups, special-purpose units, need to be equipped with specialists who have more experience and experience than conscripts. The combat experience comes in battle, and those who receive it will remember it all their lives, either by conscripts or contract soldiers, therefore, relying here on more experienced ones, you should not give up volunteers who have the talent and desire who see the prospect of remaining to serve farther.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 29 October 2017 13: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: Per se.
            Secondly, a single conscript can be more effective in recruiting personal qualities and general combat training, as a separate contractor. Finally, not every contractor may wish to fall into the midst of a hot spot, as not every conscript is necessarily against participating in hostilities.
            This is true, but there is one point. The contractor is a person who, of his own free will, chose the army as his profession, and the conscript is called up upon conscription. It’s clear that there are very different people among those and others, it’s obvious, but in general it’s much more logical to send to the battle those who chose this as their profession, and not yesterday’s schoolchild.
            Quote: Per se.
            that you can’t divide the army into military and non-military
            Not certainly in that way. I would say that the army is divided into several levels, which are used depending on the situation. The first level is special forces groups. The second - individual elite brigades. The third - from several divisions to several armies. The fourth is already a general mobilization. In the first and second cases, it is undesirable to widely use conscripts, only volunteers who have already served most of the time, not the only children, etc.
            Quote: Per se.
            for example, special forces, individual assault groups, special forces, need to be equipped with specialists with more experience and experience
            As well as units working with complex and hardly reproducible equipment, such as ships, missiles, etc.
            1. Pancir026
              Pancir026 29 October 2017 13: 09 New
              +1
              Quote: Dart2027
              The contractor is a person who, of his own free will, chose the army as his profession, and the conscript is called up upon conscription.

              On this, m your knowledge and argshumentation over?
              We look at how we choose the service under the contract — A) by calling — absolute less than ntsvo, B) Mercantile interests — absolute majority, C) Ability to fight — category A — high, category B — no. Hospital. exacerbations and threats of sending to a hot spot are overwhelmed.
              C) to sit out for some time. To save some money, the same is enough, in which case, they act as category B.
              The conscript is a medical fact, motivated in the case of war much better. The fear of death does not prevail - THIS is a medical fact, it has been checked more than once, there is no mercantilism, there is no thought that the pay will no longer be needed.
              For those who fought in Sevkavkaz, for example, the village of Komsomolskoye is known.
            2. Pancir026
              Pancir026 29 October 2017 13: 16 New
              +1
              Quote: Dart2027
              I would say that the army is divided into several levels, which are used depending on the situation.

              Powerfully .. and now, my dear man, tell me, war, the contract brigades LIE, who will fight if there is no mobile reserve?
              Quote: Dart2027
              The first level is special forces groups. The second - individual elite brigades. The third - from several divisions to several armies. The fourth is already a general mobilization.

              Did you write this?
              Well, if the first and second, the level, as you put it, can still be taken into account. When conducting a local conflict, and then, not on the scale of 1,2 companies in the Czech Republic, then we can’t say that your conclusion is correct.
              Your third assumption is already a conflict, for example, the scale of the attempt to attack Kaliningrad. And how do you think to fight, if within a week. The contract units lose at least 50% of their composition, who will replenish?
              At the expense of contractors from the depths of the country? And with whom to replace them?
              I’m not speaking for the fourth level according to your logic — if you don’t have a conscript army, you won’t have a mobile reserve, how will you fight?
              War is not a compiger and not tin soldiers ..
              And how the contract soldiers are fighting ... the village of Komsomolskoye in the Chechen Republic, it showed how ... yes and now you see how, in the event of a threat of being sent to a hot place, hospitals and medical centers are instantly overwhelmed with quasi-professionals ...
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 29 October 2017 15: 21 New
                0
                Quote: Pancir026
                We look at how to choose a contract service
                Any officer serving on a contract, next?
                Quote: Pancir026
                The conscript and this is a medical fact, motivated in the case of war much better. The fear of death does not prevail - THIS is a medical fact, it has been checked more than once
                Will the source be?
                Quote: Pancir026
                Powerfully .. and now, my dear man, tell me, war, the contract brigades LIE, who will fight if there is no mobile reserve?
                Do you read what I write? I’m not talking about the fact that MR is not needed, but about the fact that first of all you need to use parts staffed by professionals (contractors), and conscripts if they are not enough. That is, let there be a call, but also let there be parts where there will be no draftees
                Quote: Dart2027
                In the first and second cases, the widespread use of conscripts is undesirable
                However, as far as I can tell now they do so.
                1. Pancir026
                  Pancir026 29 October 2017 15: 28 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Any officer serving on a contract, next?

                  If you have nothing to say, keep silent — the Officer’s service, this is a calling service, and the contract imposed on officers in 90 is an attempt by the authorities to control the army environment that they do not like.
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Will the source be?

                  Tighten your intellect, at the same time work on your self-education.
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Do you read what I write? I’m not talking about the fact that MR is not needed, but about the fact that first of all you need to use parts staffed by professionals (contractors), and conscripts if they are not enough. That is, let there be a call, but also let there be parts where there will be no draftees

                  Blah blah blah.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 29 October 2017 15: 52 New
                    0
                    Quote: Pancir026
                    Officer service, this is a vocation service, and the contract imposed on officers in 90
                    An officer is a person who has chosen the service as his profession, and receives a salary to live on and support his family.
                    Quote: Pancir026
                    Tighten your intellect, at the same time work on your self-education.
                    That is, it will not be?
                    Quote: Pancir026
                    Blah blah blah.
                    We can talk in Russian?
            3. Per se.
              Per se. 29 October 2017 14: 18 New
              +2
              Quote: Dart2027
              As well as units working with complex and hardly reproducible equipment, such as ships, missiles, etc.
              In some ways, Vlad (Pancir026), expressed in common with my position, responding to your arguments, I will only try to add. About the "hard-to-reproducible technology", speaking of conscripts and contract servicemen, was not intentionally touched on the issue of officers here. To call our officers "contract soldiers", especially Soviet officers, the language does not turn, officer, this is a vocation in the first place, and not earnings, this has always been the case, if, of course, capitalist rot does not destroy everything. So, speaking of complex technology, as a rule, it is the prerogative of officers, especially pilots, rocket men, submariners. No one in the fighter "contract" will not land. Now that the “contract soldier” himself chose, and the conscript was called (almost forced) ... I noted above that with the appropriate recruitment of the army, division into "front" and "rear", with extended service life, as a constitutional duty, conscripts will actually be volunteers, with good military training. If you have forgotten, then in two years in the Soviet Union could train excellent conscripts for the Airborne Forces, marines, special forces, such as combat swimmers, and so on. They are no worse than comparing those who came "from scratch" to recruit current contract soldiers. In general, an army drafted should already be morally ready to fight for his Fatherland, because he takes the oath, becomes a soldier, those who are waiting for him at home should be ready for this. I repeat, there is no less grief for the mother that the son died as a contract, not as a conscript, and no contractor’s salary, his mother will not comfort his insurance here. To all, the contract army is expensive, and we don’t rob the whole world and don’t print dollars, so the statements of our president about the refusal of conscription cause vague thoughts. Money incentive to protect the homeland does not raise. It’s like if we have “asshole” players, so don’t pay much for them, they won’t play better for two million people than for one, if there is no vocation, the idea itself is in the game, and not in earnings. The same can be said with reference to a conscript and a contract. Therefore, to summarize, a soldier, this is a worker, a war worker who, having joined the army, must always be ready to do his military work. The army must be a mixed recruitment, from conscripts (two to three years of service) and soldiers from super soldiers ("contract soldiers", if you will), this most fully corresponds to the peculiarities of Russia, allows you to have prepared mobilization reserve.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 29 October 2017 15: 40 New
                +1
                Quote: Per se.
                So, speaking of complex technology, as a rule, this is the prerogative of officers, especially pilots, rocket launchers, submariners.
                Not really. On the same ships are not only officers, but also sailors. Another question is that if something happens, an urgent service sailor simply has nowhere to go. And this is not irony - all ships constantly have a full crew, and a new one is being built more than one day. And what to do with it? As a matter of fact, there has recently been an article that the fleet is switching to manning only contract soldiers.
                Quote: Per se.
                then for two years in the Soviet Union they could perfectly prepare conscripts for the Airborne Forces, marines, special forces, such as combat swimmers, and so on. They are no worse in comparison with those who came from scratch to the recruitment of current contractors.
                Yes it is. But there is one caveat - tell me how many coming to a citizen will be able to maintain the necessary form? Mastery is a constant exercise, if you do not train, then skills are quickly lost, this is pure biology. Well, the cost of training a super professional fly into the pipe.
                The conscription service should be in the army, where elite physical skills are not required (they will still be lost by a civilian) or the need to equip them with complex and expensive equipment (you can’t get it on your knee), in other words, in the “Queen of the Fields” infantry. An infantry conscript, or in the current language of motorized riflemen, is reasonable, since automatic rifles, rocket launchers, machine guns, etc. can be riveted in large quantities, and their use does not require transcendental physical exertion. The conscript will also be appropriate - an artilleryman, a tankman, etc.
                Quote: Per se.
                I repeat, there is no less grief for the mother that the son died as a contract soldier and not as a conscript, and no salary for the contractor, his mother will console him with his insurance.
                I don't mean that. The death of a loved one is always a grief, but it is one thing if he voluntarily, without any hint of coercion chooses this job and another when he leaves the agenda and does not return.
                Quote: Per se.
                therefore, the statements of our president on the refusal of the draft evoke vague thoughts

                I heard these statements back in the 90s. No one will refuse the call, at least in the foreseeable future.
                1. Per se.
                  Per se. 29 October 2017 18: 15 New
                  0
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  On the same ships are not only officers, but also sailors. Another question is that in the event of which the sailor of military service simply has nowhere to go.
                  With the current one-year service, one wonders, with a three-year situation, the situation has already changed. Served earlier in the fleet urgent more, nothing, the fleet has always been honorable. Previously, the same radar operators were trained in DOSAAF, and after the service there were military training for experienced specialists. Virtually any military specialty of soldiers and sergeants can be recruited, of course, not during one-year service. And, preferably, when there is pre-war preparation from school and at DOSAAF, military training for demobilized people. The current contractors, this plugging of holes, here and now, with the minimum size of the army. Tearful worries about unprepared conscripts (with a preliminary reduction in service life, not allowing to have well-trained soldiers, the elimination of pre-war training), will lead to the fact that there will be no prepared reserve, but there will be terrible losses, and the next plugging of holes but already unprepared for mobilization by the population. Well, “contract soldiers” after the completion or even termination of the contract, if there is no general retraining system, military training of specialists, will be no better than those who now serve even one year. So, all the conclusions, as for Chernomyrdin, they wanted, as best with this general contract service, but it will come out, "as always." The rest will not be repeated, I expressed my opinion, thank you for your attention.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 29 October 2017 20: 30 New
                    0
                    Quote: Per se.
                    With the current one-year service, why be surprised, with a three-year service, the situation has already changed.
                    What does this have to do with it? I’m not saying that they won’t be taught anything in a year, it’s that if they are called up from the reserve, they simply will have nothing to do, because there will already be a crew on the ships, and they can’t do anything else. I repeat:
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    The conscription service should be in the army, where elite physical skills are not required (they will still be lost by a civilian) or the need to equip them with complex and expensive equipment (you can’t get it on your knee), in other words, in the “Queen of the Fields” infantry. An infantry conscript, or in the current language of motorized riflemen, is reasonable, since automatic rifles, rocket launchers, machine guns, etc. can be riveted in large quantities, and their use does not require transcendental physical exertion. The conscript will also be appropriate - an artilleryman, a tankman, etc.
                    The thing is that it’s not enough to call a person from the reserve, he must also be armed, otherwise what the hell he is for.
                    Quote: Per se.
                    pre-war training from school and at DOSAAF
                    But that would be very good.
  2. Fedor1
    Fedor1 28 October 2017 15: 17 New
    +2
    The author of the article believes that the recruits will save. They will simply become cannon fodder, it can be seen from the article that the author needs to be killed, not killed.
    1. Aleksandr_5
      Aleksandr_5 28 October 2017 15: 54 New
      +6
      Did you serve?
      1. Sharansky
        Sharansky 28 October 2017 16: 00 New
        11
        recently threw a picture, but okay, repetition - the mother of learning
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 28 October 2017 17: 33 New
          +9
          Which is in the middle. It seems in the Air Force.
          1. stas
            stas 28 October 2017 22: 43 New
            0
            The contract army at 100% is an army of mercenaries for money. Who goes to the mercenaries? What woman wants to have a mercenary husband.
            Putin is afraid to train the population in military affairs, the revolution is just around the corner and the guardsmen from nat. Guard will not save.
            1. aiden
              aiden 29 October 2017 01: 07 New
              0
              we have so-called combat brotherhoods, mainly of a Nazi orientation, they fight in the Donbas, they get combat experience there, plus in Russia they have training centers in remote places.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 29 October 2017 00: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: Fedor1
      They just become cannon fodder

      What nonsense !? For 2 years of military service with the right organization, you can always prepare a skilled, confident warrior! After six months of training in training, I became a specialist in the 3 class and could work independently with the equipment entrusted to me ... by the end of the 1 year, I was a specialist in the 2 class, head of the ZAS hardware department (position of ensign) ... In the last six months I was preparing for passing to the 1 class and working according to the relevant standards ... only because of the “flight” that happened, they were not allowed to take exams and were not awarded the next rank. crying
  3. Gardamir
    Gardamir 28 October 2017 15: 21 New
    +7
    The current contractors are people who have not found a way to earn money.
    1. Severok
      Severok 28 October 2017 15: 45 New
      +9
      Specify: those who do not know how to trade and steal.
      1. stas
        stas 28 October 2017 22: 47 New
        +2
        And not knowing how to work. Contractors will soon disappear from the history of the Russian army.
        The tsar’s everything is temporary, and Russia should have everything for centuries. An urgent appeal is required for at least 2-3 years. Then there will be defenders of Russia and not mercenaries Shoigu.
        1. Black5Raven
          Black5Raven 29 October 2017 12: 47 New
          0
          Quote: stas
          An urgent appeal is needed for at least 2-3 years.

          Why trifle, let us immediately 20 years as it was in Russia before.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. RomanS
    RomanS 28 October 2017 15: 26 New
    15
    Adequate look at the army. Citizens who served on conscription and retired to STOCK are the reserve of the Russian Armed Forces. In the event of aggression against our country, the first blow will be taken by active servicemen, and accordingly the first combat losses (the most significant) will also be suffered by them. The only way to replenish is the appeal of reservists (and they need to be prepared). It is more effective to do this in peacetime.
    1. SERGUS
      SERGUS 28 October 2017 16: 45 New
      +4
      Quote: RomanS
      The only way to replenish is the appeal of reservists (and they need to be prepared). It is more effective to do this in peacetime.

      Black said this in the very first commentary on the article:
      Quote: Black
      Mixed ... Combat units should be formed exclusively by contract soldiers. Citizens who have been called up should serve in educational units. The male population of the state should be trained in military specialties and the ability to use weapons and military equipment.

      I also have such an opinion, but here our supreme commander-in-chief (neither the figures and parties associated with foreign countries about whom the author speaks) recently said:
      “We must keep in mind that we are gradually moving away from conscription service altogether,” Putin said.
      1. Aleksandr_5
        Aleksandr_5 28 October 2017 21: 39 New
        0
        How so ??? !!! Kind people!!! After all, he is from the KGB, so not! Why, AGAIN against common sense ?! How to be in the election of 18? Indeed, the rest, the candidates will be even more virulent (from the word "ghoul")! crying
        1. Krabik
          Krabik 29 October 2017 01: 21 New
          0
          KGB - State Security Committee CCCP.

          From the name it is clear that this structure was supposed to protect the state from traitors.

          But they didn’t defend it, so it lost its functions and no longer worked for the security of the state.

          How to vote in 18, it doesn’t matter how you vote.
          You can either vote for Navalny or Sobchak or Zhirinovsky.

          If Putin decides to be re-elected, he will be the head, or he will appoint a receiver and the receiver will be the main.

          Take my word for it NOBODY will ask you whom to lead the state of Russia!
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 28 October 2017 16: 59 New
      +4
      Quote: RomanS
      Adequate look at the army. Citizens who served on conscription and retired to STOCK are the reserve of the Russian Armed Forces. In the event of aggression against our country, the first blow will be taken by active servicemen, and accordingly the first combat losses (the most significant) will also be suffered by them. The only way to replenish is the appeal of reservists (and they need to be prepared). It is more effective to do this in peacetime.

      That's right, the Israeli experience.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 28 October 2017 23: 06 New
        +2
        Quote: Krasnodar
        That's right, the Israeli experience.

        When Russia already used this experience, Israel was not in the project yet.
  6. atesterev
    atesterev 28 October 2017 15: 37 New
    +6
    The conclusion is correct and Israel is an example.
  7. Severok
    Severok 28 October 2017 15: 44 New
    10
    Cancellation of conscription services = withdrawal of training of reservists = weakening mobilization of human reserves.
    I have the honor.
  8. lissa
    lissa 28 October 2017 15: 49 New
    11
    For some reason, in Israel, such a question is not even worth it. Everyone and even girls serve there. And their army is included in the 5-ku of the strongest armies in the world. I wonder how they get that the most conscripted army in the world is the most professional ??!
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 October 2017 23: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: lissa
      And their army is one of the 5 strongest armies in the world.

      Since when? Somewhere in the top ten - here is their level
    2. alstr
      alstr 29 October 2017 10: 52 New
      0
      The point here is the specificity of Israel itself. Small territory, hostile environment with significantly larger armies.
      For example, the army of Egypt is 300 thousand against 130 thousand. And the mobilization potential of Egypt is about 20 million against the 8,5 million population of Israel in general.

      Therefore, Israel does not have time to prepare reserves during the war. And by and large, their war both started and goes on slowly without ceasing (something like the centenary war in the Middle Ages). Therefore, they have no choice - everyone should serve and be professional enough to fight with a numerical minority.

      As for our country, the appeal is still needed. But only in training units, where there is only combat training.
      Purely theoretically, the option of annual fees for all students older than 17-18 years in the summer would be the most correct. In July-August. Those. began examinations for a month and fees. Preferably close by specialty. After the end of the training is already 2-3 months with the exercises.
      Then, every 5-10 years, a gathering to restore skills and familiarize yourself with the technique.

      In fact, if you have primary military training, you can learn to use any technique (except for aviation, a special song) in a month of intensive training (i.e., you can learn to shoot from the same S-300 in a month), but the ability to fight (t .e. and use the technique tactically correctly at least at the minimum acceptable level) - this already requires considerable time - just those two years will leave.

      Therefore, not in vain in the USSR were cropped parts. Probably we also need to go this way.
      Those. there are parts of the first echelon that are fully equipped and conduct military operations in local conflicts and take the first blow. And there are cropped units where there is an officer skeleton and conscription contingent, which arrives either to study or to form.
      The only thing that, according to the good old tradition (alas, sad), that in such parts get into exile and the quality of the officers was very low. But it should be the other way around.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 29 October 2017 12: 07 New
        0
        Quote: alstr
        The point here is the specificity of Israel itself.

        But then we know what Arabs are fighters, Israel has practically greenhouse conditions.
        Quote: alstr
        For example, the army of Egypt is 300 thousand against 130 thousand.

        And let's estimate the armies of the world:
        USA
        Russia
        China
        India
        here in your opinion there should have been Israel
        and now a list of countries that you think are weaker than Israel
        France
        United Kingdom
        Japan
        Germany (heh not even funny)
        Turkey
        Italy
        further go countries with comparable military capabilities to Israel
        South Korea
        Egypt
        Pakistan
        Indonesia
        here is the place of Israel
        Vietnam
        Brazil
        Poland
        Taiwan
        Iran
        Something like this
  9. Wolka
    Wolka 28 October 2017 15: 52 New
    +5
    one follows from the other, personnel without a draft army cannot exist on a contract basis, or there are still sources for a military professional formation ...
  10. Sharansky
    Sharansky 28 October 2017 15: 57 New
    +1
    Khramchikhin is the same clown whose Ukrainian tanks plow the expanses of Red Square and special on the Chinese threat?
  11. The brightest
    The brightest 28 October 2017 16: 04 New
    +3
    Only draft, and for the rest there are officers!
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 28 October 2017 19: 24 New
      +3
      Quote: Lightest
      Only draft, and for the rest there are officers!

      And warrant officers
  12. Aleksandr_5
    Aleksandr_5 28 October 2017 16: 05 New
    +6
    There is nothing to add. The author is right! True, judging by the comments of some citizens, it was necessary to chew all the undoubtedly positive aspects of the conscription service in more detail ... Well, I heard that all right. yes It is important that the governing apparatus is aware of this thought. And he wouldn’t harm the Motherland again. angry
  13. zoolu350
    zoolu350 28 October 2017 16: 07 New
    +7
    On the question of which army, draft or contract, I am a pure highline: "A citizen is always ready to give his life in the name of serving society, unlike a non-citizen."
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 28 October 2017 17: 41 New
      +6
      In the name of serving the consumer society? No, thank you.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 28 October 2017 18: 06 New
        +8
        Quote: Doliva63
        In the name of serving the consumer society? No, fire

        Dude stupidly trolls, do not get fooled stop
      2. zoolu350
        zoolu350 28 October 2017 18: 43 New
        +2
        There are different societies. Consumer society is certainly the most wretched. But we do not serve the oligarchy of the Russian Federation, but the Russian people, in contrast to Golovan Jack.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 28 October 2017 18: 53 New
          11
          Quote: zoolu350
          ... we serve not the oligarchy of the Russian Federation, but the Russian people ...

          You, hike, earn money here. Very recognizable handwriting, I’ve seen a lot of these in my time yes
          Quote: zoolu350
          unlike Golovan Jack

          Golovan Jack, unlike you, today (and tomorrow) is a day off. And all the same, they have already kicked once - "fix this urgently." Well, fixed it, it’s hard for me or something request
          The office closes the year (they have a new year since November ... they’re cool) at the beginning of next week, and I, accordingly, have a “general cleaning”.
          And today and tomorrow you can relax ... dog and cat ironed, at home ... troll
          Lyapota good
          1. zoolu350
            zoolu350 28 October 2017 19: 07 New
            +2
            [quote = Golovan Jack]
            You, hike, earn money here. Very recognizable handwriting, I’ve seen a lot of such at one time [quote]
            Do not guess. I'm stopping you like to whitewash the actions of the oligarchy of the Russian Federation and deceive the people. They kick you a little, more often, but I’ll add morally.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 28 October 2017 19: 25 New
              10
              Quote: zoolu350
              Kick you a little, it is necessary more often ...

              GYYY laughing laughing laughing
              They don’t kick me, they politely ask me ... because I am "valuable and furry." And "kick" is just a figure of speech ...
              Quote: zoolu350
              ... and I will add morally

              You are too light to add anything. request
              Troll-I-Yayashka tongue
              1. zoolu350
                zoolu350 29 October 2017 05: 20 New
                +1
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                You are too light to add anything. request
                Troll-I-Yayashka tongue

                Wait my enemy Edroshka, will fly to you a little;
                HPP does not help, but the letter P comes ....
                And what? Once kindergarten has gone, then accordingly.
          2. Aleksandr_5
            Aleksandr_5 28 October 2017 21: 47 New
            0
            laughing Laughing out loud! laughing
            Bravo! good
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 28 October 2017 19: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: zoolu350
      On the question of which army, draft or contract, I am a pure highline: "A citizen is always ready to give his life in the name of serving society, unlike a non-citizen."

      Starship Troopers)))
      1. zoolu350
        zoolu350 29 October 2017 05: 12 New
        0
        Yes. Therefore, I believe that the institution of stupid distribution of citizenship is only because one of the parents was born here or was born here. Received "for free" is not appreciated. Earn the right to elect and be elected, that is, the right to POWER! And I would complicate the task of replacing all management positions with contractors. Then the queues at the military registration and enlistment offices would hang out for an appeal, as in the PRC. And where there is competition, there the quality of personnel will increase.
      2. sxfRipper
        sxfRipper 30 October 2017 22: 09 New
        0
        Glory to those hospodis - into the pocket! And the trolls fled laughing
  14. Zounds
    Zounds 28 October 2017 16: 11 New
    +5
    The principle “one can kill for money, but one cannot die” has not been canceled and will never be canceled, and statements like “the military profession is the same as everyone else” or “let people serve by calling” are either complete incompetence or propaganda lies.


    I wonder if the author is able to critically analyze what he wrote? If the above statement of the author is true, then it turns out that the entire officer corps of the Russian army, which is professional, in the event of a serious war will abandon conscripts and scatter.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 29 October 2017 07: 39 New
      0
      When they shout about mercenaries, they forget about this for some reason.
  15. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 28 October 2017 16: 18 New
    +3
    The time of mass armies is running out, weapons are again becoming extremely demanding on a fighter.
    It is advisable to keep the appeal solely for training in reserve-based military affairs.
    In general, the ideal soldier is a volunteer: motivated and inexpensive.
  16. groks
    groks 28 October 2017 16: 27 New
    +3
    The Americans never knew how to fight. Lucky once. A combination of magical coincidences. But then there was the island of Kysko.
    The contract army is well suited to suppressing internal rallies and minor border conflicts.
    1. Black5Raven
      Black5Raven 29 October 2017 12: 50 New
      0
      Quote: groks
      The Americans never knew how to fight. Lucky once. A combination of magical coincidences.

      Something is often lucky for them, probably fortune favors wassat Another hatter
      1. groks
        groks 29 October 2017 14: 15 New
        0
        Only once - at Midway. There were no more meetings with at least some comparable adversary. The Germans beat them, they themselves beat the best of all. Everything else is analogous to 8.8.8.
  17. parusnik
    parusnik 28 October 2017 16: 41 New
    +4
    Contracted draft, without or
  18. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 28 October 2017 16: 44 New
    +5
    I completely agree with the author! I’ll add on my own that the current government therefore rests on the creation of a professional army, renaming the police as the police and the creation of the Russian Guard, because it’s sure that it can only stay on bayonets! Not on authority among the people, namely, as in the tsarist army, with bayonets!
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 October 2017 23: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: andrej-shironov
      namely, as in the tsarist army, with bayonets!

      However, the imperial army was recruiting, recruits were recruited from the people.
      1. andrej-shironov
        andrej-shironov 29 October 2017 09: 51 New
        0
        When I compared this and the present, I had in mind that as then everything was held up with bayonets, and not that there was a contract army either.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 29 October 2017 12: 10 New
          0
          Quote: andrej-shironov
          When I compared this and the present, I had in mind that as then everything was held up with bayonets, and not that there was a contract army either.

          The state is an instrument of coercion and is held in bayonets by any means.
          1. andrej-shironov
            andrej-shironov 29 October 2017 17: 18 New
            0
            You would still recall a quote from Louis. But you can force it in different ways. And initially, states were not created for this purpose.
  19. trak
    trak 28 October 2017 17: 21 New
    +1
    In principle, the article seems logical, I also think that if the service is only a year, then the call will be, although it’s ridiculous to think that a real soldier can be prepared in a year. But universal military training is beneficial for young people and the country as a whole. Only one ambiguity remains ... In our army, all the officers and extra riders are the same contract soldiers- "mercenaries." Then why will they fight in a serious bloody war better than enemy mercenaries? Because they are in charge of conscripts? Or because once, too, served a year for an urgent?
    Who would explain this to me?
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 28 October 2017 17: 48 New
      +7
      Quote: trak
      In our army, all officers and over-conscripts are the same. mercenaries

      One more ... did you get a specialist here, or what?
      Quote: trak
      Who would explain this to me?

      Nonsense ... you are hopeless negative
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 29 October 2017 07: 41 New
        0
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        Nonsense ... you are hopeless
        Well, all the same - why is the salary officer not a mercenary?
  20. Doliva63
    Doliva63 28 October 2017 17: 29 New
    +7
    Year of conscription service - fig leaf; an officer after an urgent and a contract - that was not even dreamed of, but had, for neither education nor work after the demobilization ?; the roots of the current army are Soviet, not Russian, as the author writes. The article is demagogic.
  21. Cannonball
    Cannonball 28 October 2017 18: 17 New
    +2
    Emergency service - exclusively for the preparation of a mobilization reserve. Fulfillment of combat missions - exclusively by professional military personnel.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 28 October 2017 19: 39 New
      +5
      And will the mobile reserve exclusively solve educational problems in case of war? Writers, damn it laughing
      1. Cannonball
        Cannonball 29 October 2017 17: 29 New
        0
        In the event of war, everyone will line up at the cemetery. winked
        A mobile reserve is needed only so that in case of war the mobilized are not trained from scratch - time is too expensive. In any case, a mobile reserve cannot be thrown into a battle either, anyway, it needs additional, accelerated training.
  22. Maalkavianin
    Maalkavianin 28 October 2017 18: 35 New
    0
    The first one to be struck by rights when making such a decision should be the author of the article.
  23. MOSKVITYANIN
    MOSKVITYANIN 28 October 2017 18: 42 New
    +3
    Same article. The positive features of the conscripted army with the aim of having a prepared mobilization reserve are considered, but for some reason it is clear to young talented people living in the Southern Federal District even without such service how to handle small arms and gunner-gunnery weapons and organize home defense in accordance with all the rules of combined arms combat. ...
    Tell us about the indispensability of an army manned by conscripts - Argentine soldiers and generals who lost the war for the Falklands ...
    By the way, 5 million military units of which the USSR lost in border battles in the 41 year were for the most part a cadre army .....
    In fairness, we must refer to the IDF manning system, staffed mainly by conscripts ....
    A mixed picking system or a selective set (which was before 39 of the year) is better than when all the Russian Armed Forces consist of contractors or vice versa from conscripts .....

    In his famous military treatise, N. Machiaveli describes the dilemma above well.
    Excerpt http://wek.com.ua/article/72807/

    The Iraqi grouping, which in August 1990 had invaded Kuwait, was only slightly larger than the professional forces of Kuwait. The latter, however, instantly collapsed, with little resistance to the aggressor.

    Kuwait's armed forces were manned by mercenaries from other countries, including such "great warriors" as the Syrians, you can read more about this in one of the magazines of the Western Military District, for the 1990
    1. WapentakeLokki
      WapentakeLokki 28 October 2017 19: 24 New
      +6
      I agree to all 100%. All the `` peace '' time people spend money on a professional army (and not weak enough to compare the salaries of the military and the peaceful people and the retirement benefits of identity too) but here comes (as always unexpectedly in Russia) WAR and what? during (during the first world year in the Great Patriotic War for a couple of months) and in a stand are simple hard workers who carry the whole war on their shoulders. By the way, the peacetime officer corps must be replaced during the same 2-3 months of military operations (t .k. a `` peaceful '' officer on hrn is not needed in battle with his ability to march and report famously but not be able to think and command tactically so that his fighters would not fall in the first attack with a load of 200). And that does this mean a professional army is not needed? And if what and what size is needed (an example of ukrov when a crowd of polkans and generals but their support is on '' 0 '' for their army). Of course it’s silly to call conscripts to the fleet in the Air Force and Strategic Missile Forces for contracts (and ahvitserov) but the infantry, airborne, BT, etc. i.e. those parts of the loss which in battle always require reserving on drugs should be filled up by conscripts (this is the guarantee of the combat stability of the ground forces — to assemble a tank for a week, to grow a crew for it for 20 years — the conclusions are clear).
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 28 October 2017 23: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
      By the way, 5 million military units of which the USSR lost in border battles in the 41 year were for the most part a cadre army .....

      The Soviet Union in the border battles in 41 had only 3.2 million bayonets.
      1. MOSKVITYANIN
        MOSKVITYANIN 28 October 2017 23: 47 New
        0
        Quote: Setrac
        The Soviet Union in the border battles in 41 had only 3.2 million bayonets.


        During the first 193 days of the Second World War, the Red Army and the Navy lost 3 138 thousand people.
        https://topwar.ru/11444-poteri-sssr-i-germanii-v-
        vov.html
        Your statistics are even worse, but I’m not an statistician, let’s say no one was killed, and about 1 million w / c just got captured, it does not change anything in my comment.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 29 October 2017 00: 02 New
          +2
          Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
          During the first 193 days of the Second World War, the Red Army and the Navy lost 3 138 thousand people.

          Where did two million go? You’ve got a million here and a million here.
          And how much did the Wehrmacht with satellites lose in the 1941 year?
          1. MOSKVITYANIN
            MOSKVITYANIN 29 October 2017 00: 13 New
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            Where did two million go? You’ve got a million here and a million here.
            And how much did the Wehrmacht with satellites lose in the 1941 year?

            Are you more than three million more? I don’t give a damn how much Germany and its allies on the Eastern Front have lost. I’m worried about the losses of the USSR ....
            And look at the losses of the enemy in the same article to which I gave a link ... in addition, I answered your comment regarding the losses of the USSR, and not Germany ...
            In short, google to help ...
            1. zoolu350
              zoolu350 29 October 2017 06: 58 New
              +2
              And here I do not agree with you. Wehrmacht in 1941. the best army in the world and the result that the Red Army achieved in the process of its destruction against other players in Europe is also important.
              1. MOSKVITYANIN
                MOSKVITYANIN 29 October 2017 12: 04 New
                0
                Quote: zoolu350
                And here I do not agree with you. Wehrmacht in 1941. the best army in the world and the result that the Red Army achieved in the process of its destruction against other players in Europe is also important.

                I agree with you. However, we only really began to beat the Germans in the 43, we also managed to re-equip and reform the Red Army .....
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 29 October 2017 12: 18 New
              +1
              Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
              I don’t give a damn how much Germany and its allies on the Eastern Front have lost. I’m worried about the losses of the USSR ....

              However, this issue is important and the fact that you do not care about it indicates that you do not care about your brains. in fact, in such a simple way, you shy away from answering an uncomfortable question.
              Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
              And look at the losses of the enemy in the same article to which I gave a link ...

              However, there is no answer how much the Wehrmacht lost in the first year of the war.
              Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
              In short, google to help ...

              Google gives out a completely ridiculous figure - two hundred thousand losses of the Wehrmacht in 1941. But this is utter nonsense; an army of 5.5 million bayonets does not stop the offensive, having lost only two hundred thousand. All losses should reach 80-90%
              1. MOSKVITYANIN
                MOSKVITYANIN 29 October 2017 12: 33 New
                +1
                Setrac that you do not care about it says that you do not care about your brains

                And why do you insult me ​​dear, do not know how to communicate on the forum or provoke insults in your address? You can’t work with open sources of information, ask mom, I personally do not owe you anything ...
                My main thesis that the Red Army lost almost all the border battles in the initial period of the war, you did not refute, nor did you refute my opinion that the entire pre-war cadre army could not turn the tide of the events of 1941-1942.
                In WWII 1812, the army of the Republic of Ingushetia survived and did not allow itself to be tied into border battles with a superior enemy, and Soviet in 1941 yielded, well, google at least the losses of the parties in WWII 1812, WWII and WWII 1941-1945. , I won’t be surprised if you say that in the last World War II the soldiers of the USSR were worse, and not as command personnel ...
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 29 October 2017 13: 00 New
                  0
                  Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                  And why do you insult me ​​dear, do not know how to communicate on the forum or provoke insults in your address?

                  You do not care about beckoning? Why are you surprised at the response spitting?
                  Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                  My main thesis that the Red Army lost almost all the border battles in the initial period of the war, you did not refute

                  Why reject the obvious? I reject your thesis that the defeat is to blame for the manning of the army, the reasons for the defeat at the beginning of the war are completely different.
                  Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                  In the Great Patriotic War of 1812, the army of the Republic of Ingushetia survived and did not allow itself to be tied into border battles with a superior enemy, and the Soviet gave in 1941, well, at least google the losses of the parties in the Great Patriotic War of 1812.

                  But you dig deeper, for example, the Mongol-Tatar invasion. And after such comparisons do you demand respect for yourself? Yes you are a comedian.
                  Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                  WWI and WWII 1941-1945

                  And how did it all end for Nicholas II and for Stalin? Two scenarios for starting a war are two different outcomes.
                  1. MOSKVITYANIN
                    MOSKVITYANIN 29 October 2017 13: 22 New
                    0
                    Setrac And how did it all end for Nicholas II and for Stalin? Two scenarios for starting a war are two different outcomes.

                    I remember the Communists weren’t given the chance to win the PMV by staging a coup and making a separate peace with Germany ....
                    Goodbye to me in p..lu communicate with you ...
                    1. zoolu350
                      zoolu350 29 October 2017 16: 49 New
                      +1
                      Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                      I remember the Communists weren’t given the chance to win the PMV by staging a coup and making a separate peace with Germany ....
                      Goodbye to me in p..lu communicate with you ...

                      But it’s nothing that there were no communists in the indicated period, and this name appeared in the name of the party only in 1925, but even the Bolsheviks in February 1917 were not involved in the overthrow of Nicholas No. 2. And your reasoning about comparing military art of the early 19th century. and the middle of the 20th century., so in general a masterpiece.
                      1. MOSKVITYANIN
                        MOSKVITYANIN 29 October 2017 17: 28 New
                        +1
                        zoolu350 your arguments about comparing the military art of the beginning of 19в. and the middle of the 20 century, so in general a masterpiece.

                        In any case, the losses of the army of the Republic of Ingushetia in the wars were much less than under the Bolsheviks / Communists ... accordingly, we can conclude that the command structure during the existence of the USSR was more than during the Republic of Ingushetia, otherwise, we would not have lost so much in the Second World War than the rest countries taken together, only China surpassed us, well, so for her, the war with the Japanese military began in 30's ....
                        According to the results of the Second World War, we got seats in the UN Security Council and half of Europe, the same thing the Anglo-Saxons received only with less casualties ....
                        Successes in the war are evaluated by its results, and not by a comparative analysis of the military art of one or another side of the conflict ....
                        that there were no communists in the indicated period, and this name appeared in the name of the party only in 1925.

                        Apparently the peace of Brest was concluded with the Germans by Kornilov and daddy is quiet?
                        By 11 o'clock in the morning on October 24, the newspaper Rabochiy Put appeared, in which the Bolshevik party called for the overthrow of the Provisional Government and the establishment of Soviet power. “Power must pass into the hands of the Soviets of workers, soldiers and peasants' deputies. At 10 in the morning of October 25 (November 7), the Military Revolutionary Committee published an appeal “To the Citizens of Russia!” Written by V. I. Lenin. It announced the victorious course of the socialist revolution, the deposition of the Provisional Government (See V. I. Lenin, To the Citizens of Russia !, Soch., Vol. 26, p. 207.).

                        http://historic.ru/books/item/f00/s00/z0000183/st
                        004.shtml
                    2. Setrac
                      Setrac 29 October 2017 17: 49 New
                      +1
                      Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                      I remember the Communists weren’t given the chance to win the PMV by staging a coup and making a separate peace with Germany ....

                      Nicholas II was prevented by whites and not reds; one must know the story before entering into disputes.
                      Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                      Goodbye to me in p..lu communicate with you ...

                      Did you go too far with pathos? Well go if you’re not joking ....
  24. Xscorpion
    Xscorpion 28 October 2017 18: 45 New
    +7
    As I understand it, the author was encouraged to write the article by the statement of V.V. Putin that the army will in the long run evade military service. In our country, in the future it means that it will be 50 years from now, not earlier. By then, the army will already be technologically advanced enough that there really will be nothing for people without training there. I want to note right away that the professional army is a lot of dough costs. In the American army, a recruit is also studying military specialties for the first year, he is paid money, he doesn’t fight, he doesn’t serve combat units, but receives a salary. Approximately 1200 bucks a month. Do you really think that they will refuse conscription service in our country? Six months of term will be the maximum in the long term. A month of KMB, and 5 months of training for a certain specialty, and then a contract or a reserve. Our country will never refuse such a freebie. And I believe that this is correct. Nowadays it is only necessary to make the army feel the army , offer a choice after the end of the service. Professionals will cope with everything else. You do not need to compare our contractors with mercenaries. These are not mercenaries, but professional soldiers who also serve their country for a modest salary. As for the quality of the contractors, there really are people for which the army is just an opportunity to earn extra money, because there’s nothing to do on a civilian, but this is already the problem of commanders, from a sergeant and higher. Believe me, I have to make candy out of different shit, I apologize for the expression. In most cases, successfully, from the most hopeless even normal soldiers, but no one is safe from different woodpeckers. And as for the combat effectiveness of a professional army .. what to say .. Recent conflicts If you understand that our double basses are far from being mercenaries of the Western armies, and are quite capable of solving all problems with a minimum of losses. Enough of us to bury children of 18-19 years old. Let adult men who consciously make their choice go into battle.
  25. weksha50
    weksha50 28 October 2017 21: 14 New
    +5
    "So that Russia remains Russia, and its army - the army, no cancellation of the call is out of the question. The one-year peacetime conscription service must be entered in Art. 59 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation "...

    I fully support ... However, I believed and believe that 1 year of service is still not enough for posts related to modern weapons ... And the Constitution will suffice to state the fact that every citizen of the Russian Federation is obliged both to protect his country and serve the due date for the appeal, without indicating the deadline ...

    “Of course, any draft army is actually mixed, but the contractor must first serve the prescribed year on the draft. And it is very desirable that only one who served a year on conscription and at least two years under a contract could become an officery "...

    I also support, in addition to the second phrase that I highlighted ... Plus, to call for at least another two years under the contract, and then another 5 years at the school - will it not be too hard ??? With this level, the competitions for applicants to the military schools will fall again ...
  26. The comment was deleted.
    1. MOSKVITYANIN
      MOSKVITYANIN 28 October 2017 23: 56 New
      +1
      Eight And the phrase "draft evasion should not be punished criminally, but by a loss of rights, which should also be written in the Constitution" in the lips of a person who has not served in the army, looks like a masterpiece.

      Military service is the constitutional duty of Article 59 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation. Persons evading this obligation are already limited in their rights to occupy civil and municipal service posts.
      The problem of a trained and trained mobilization reserve could be solved by the creation of the Territorial Defense Forces and the accessibility of employment of youth (both pre-conscription and retired) in military-applied sports. Here the gym is not accessible to everyone, not even shooting clubs, etc.
  27. Karen
    Karen 28 October 2017 22: 16 New
    +1
    I don’t remember when and where I read, but it crashed all my life ...
    That there was a motivation system in the army of Genghis Khan ... military service was considered very prestigious, and for this honor the families themselves paid to the treasury for their sons ... the soldiers were forbidden to loot ... and they ate from the same cauldron as captive slaves Well, as Genghis Khan thanked the family of the hero, you can guess ...
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 October 2017 23: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: Karen
      I don’t remember when and where I read, but it crashed all my life ...
      That there was a motivation system in the army of Genghis Khan ... military service was considered very prestigious, and for this honor the families themselves paid to the treasury for their sons ... the soldiers were forbidden to loot ... and they ate from the same cauldron as captive slaves Well, as Genghis Khan thanked the family of the hero, you can guess ...
      Reply Quote Complaint

      These are all speculations of historians, most of whom are far from the army.
  28. Clone
    Clone 28 October 2017 23: 24 New
    +3
    Quote: Gardamir
    The current contractors are people who have not found a way to earn money.

    Nda ... a successful white-ticket manager?
    By the way, for information ... the current officers are also “contract soldiers”, although I personally do not like this “nameplate”.
    _____________________
    On the topic ... Manning should only be mixed.
  29. aiden
    aiden 29 October 2017 01: 20 New
    0
    I studied at the school in Soviet times, and we had a subject of burning, thanks to which, at that age, I could disassemble and assemble the machine, I knew the main types of toxic substances and how to protect myself from them, even knew how BMP1 works. there were field trips to the military unit where we lived, shot, were engaged in physical training and so on. there were military-patriotic games such as lightning, which taught a lot of things. that is, after school, I had basic military training. Now I don’t know if this is or not, and if not, it would be nice to return it.
    1. Letnab
      Letnab 29 October 2017 04: 41 New
      +3
      maybe not crimped, but NVP? in Soviet times ...
    2. MOSKVITYANIN
      MOSKVITYANIN 29 October 2017 12: 15 New
      0
      aiden it would be nice to get that back.

      I agree with you. Russia is a constantly belligerent country because of neighbors masochists who attack us and get along the ridge with a frequency of 100 years, apparently they like it, it is unlikely that anything will change in the future
      True, the appearance of NVP in schools, colleges and universities will not help, it is necessary to make accessible facilities for practicing military-applied sports, and for different age groups, and not just for pre-conscription youth ....
      1. Eight
        Eight 29 October 2017 14: 05 New
        +1
        From the decree of Ts. I.K., adopted on September 2, 1918.

        “We are obligated to turn the Soviet Republic into one armed camp.” So said in his speech at the meeting on September 2, the Center. Spanish Com having just returned from the front of Comrade Trotsky. ^ Why should we do this?

        Not because we are so belligerent, іе because we crave war.
        Just a hundred years ago.
        On the contrary, we already ten months in every possible way avoid bloodshed.

        But life itself compels us to arm everyone who is able to carry weapons of working people in the Soviet Republic.

        We have to go to one military camp as soon as possible. There is no other way out: we are surrounded by millions of enemies. They gathered, both outside the borders of our country and from the inside.
  30. Letnab
    Letnab 29 October 2017 04: 51 New
    0
    I, too, for a mixed type of manning the army.
    not so long ago, information slipped that our president announced a future rejection of the draft. I also support members of the forum that it is necessary to prepare a mobile reserve, and it is even urgently necessary, it can be, there has been talk all around the war lately ...
    As I wrote in one of the posts on the same topic, and I will probably repeat it ... To prepare the mobile reserve, it is necessary to introduce compulsory military education, I think that this is no longer a service, but let there really be educational institutions where young people should acquire the necessary military specialty. You can write a lot on this topic ...
  31. Lexa-149
    Lexa-149 29 October 2017 11: 03 New
    0
    And it is very desirable that only one who served a year on conscription and at least two years under a contract could become an officer.

    After that, no one will go to the school at all, except for a few.
  32. Archon
    Archon 29 October 2017 12: 25 New
    0
    Let conscripts stay, but they pay them 25-30 thousand rubles so that this money can be sent to parents or family, otherwise it’s bad.
    And then there are times that you are in the army, your family is in trouble, and you have a salary of 200 rubles earlier or 2000 rubles now, and you can’t help with anything, but you know that there is a problem without you, and there’s nothing you can do about it .
    Or you have a mortgage, but they took you into the army and collectors harshly pressured relatives, threaten and terrorize them.
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 29 October 2017 12: 35 New
      +7
      Quote: Archon
      Let conscripts stay, but they pay them 25-30 thousand rubles ...

      For what, excuse me? For beautiful eyes?
      Who would pay me so much for this ...
      Quote: Archon
      Or do you have a mortgageand they took you to the army

      ABOUT! The nightingale's voice erupted, but in ... I won’t tell you where, the “medals” from the moderator do not need me like that.
      And so, if so, then you goof in a cube.
      Verily, the scoop is indestructible ... "give, give me ...". Pah negative
      1. MOSKVITYANIN
        MOSKVITYANIN 29 October 2017 23: 42 New
        0
        Golovan Jack For what, excuse me? For beautiful eyes?
        Who would pay me so much for this ...

        Verily, the scoop is indestructible ... "give, give me ...". Pah

        You already decide who you scoop or your opponent ...
        or are you here for the phrase - "if so, then you are a sucker in a cube ...", so you are on the forum site Alekseevskaya b-tsi ...
        and where did all anti-legacy people from the forum go?
    2. Black5Raven
      Black5Raven 29 October 2017 12: 54 New
      0
      Quote: Archon
      and collectors

      How have they not been banned yet? After stories with arson of apartments and mutilations, including to children?
    3. Setrac
      Setrac 29 October 2017 13: 04 New
      +2
      Quote: Archon
      And then there are times that you are in the army, the family is in trouble

      Quote: Archon
      Or you have a mortgage, but they took you into the army and collectors harshly pressed relatives

      Which family? What is a mortgage? You (the draftee) are eighteen years old.
  33. models
    models 29 October 2017 14: 42 New
    +2
    It has been repeatedly said and written that a professional, that is, purely hired army, is not capable of waging a serious war, implying a high level of losses, due to a fundamental change in the motivation of personnel.
    After the reform, the Romans Maria, the Swiss, Landsknecht, Yeomen, all the armies of the New Time and especially the Spanish infantry at Rocroix, the light brigade, the thin red line and many others look at this author as a lamer in military history.
  34. Setrac
    Setrac 29 October 2017 17: 52 New
    0
    Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
    In any case, the losses of the RI army in wars were much less than under the Bolsheviks / Communists ...

    And where did RI end up? According to the results of the first world, she was gone.
    1. MOSKVITYANIN
      MOSKVITYANIN 29 October 2017 19: 04 New
      0
      Setrac And where did RI end up?

      And where did the USSR end up?
      According to the results of the first world, she was gone.

      And according to the results of which war the USSR did not become?
      Agree that during the period of the existence of the Republic of Ingushetia its people died less in all the wars combined that it waged than during the wars during the existence of the USSR (73 year) (even if we do not take into account the fratricidal civil war and the victims of repression) ...
      Good regime ditched so many people in one WWII than in the entire history of probably not only the Republic of Ingushetia, but also the entire Russian State ....
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 30 October 2017 08: 31 New
        0
        Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
        And where did the USSR end up?

        At the UN Security Council? The USSR rose to leadership positions.
        Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
        And according to the results of which war the USSR did not become?

        Not World War II.
        Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
        Good regime ditched so many people in one WWII

        The people ruined the Wehrmacht, and not at all some abstract "regime" there.
        Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
        Agree that during the period of the existence of the Republic of Ingushetia its people died less in all the wars combined that it waged than during the wars during the existence of the USSR (73 year) (even if we do not take into account the fratricidal civil war and the victims of repression) ...

        This applies to all countries, progress does not stand still, including progress in the destruction of their own kind.
  35. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 30 October 2017 04: 57 New
    +1
    Not draft, and not contract, but personnel. Those. professional, with staff trained in institutions, preferably rallied into a single officer corps (from ordinary to generals).
    And supported by universal education on the basis of universal military service. Only not with conscripts, but with reservists (who will be taught as cadets, and not forced to serve). Plus real (and not formal, as in the USSR) training of reserve personnel in military schools.
    Much has been said about the contract army: this is more rabble. The conscription looks “patiotic”, but do not flatter yourself: this is rubbish.
    1. sxfRipper
      sxfRipper 30 October 2017 22: 19 New
      0
      Quote: M. Michelson
      single officer corps (from privates to generals)
      How's that?

      Quote: M. Michelson
      supported by universal education on the basis of universal military service

      At school there was an NVP, at the institute there was a military department. VUS 111000, platoon commander of chemical troops. You yourself understand that if something suddenly happened, then the commander of me would have been even "taller" than of a pig - a ballerina!