Military Review

Disaster Ka-52. Causes, versions, guesses

With any flying technique, flight accidents happen sooner or later, sometimes even with human victims. In the evening of March 12, this sad list was supplemented by the latest Russian combat helicopter Ka-52 "Alligator". According to media reports, referring to sources in the Ministry of Defense, the commander of the helicopter, Lieutenant Colonel D. Rakushin, and navigator Lieutenant M. Fedorov performed a training flight in the vicinity of the 344-th center for combat use and retraining of flight personnel (Torzhok). About nine o'clock in the evening the connection with the helicopter was interrupted. In the area where the combat vehicle was supposed to be located at that time, a search group was sent, but as a result, almost all of the 344 personnel in the pulp and paper industry and FPS had to be recruited for searches, according to some media. Scouring the intended area of ​​the accident gave results only in the morning of the thirteenth number. Around 8: 40-8: 45 managed to detect the missing helicopter from the air. The remains of the car lay on the edge of the forest near the village of Big Kiselenka about ten kilometers from the airfield.

REFERENCE - Ka-52 Helicopter ("Alligator")
The Ka-52 Alligator multipurpose all-weather combat helicopter (Hokum B by NATO classification) was developed at the beginning of the 1990-s at the Kamov Design Bureau. Is a double modification of the Ka-50 "Black Shark". The first flight of the prototype took place on 25 June 1997 of the year. In 2008, the helicopter was put into service, but at the Progress plant in Primorye its serial production began.
Crew - two people (pilot and navigator). Fuselage length - 14,2 m, wing span - 7,34 m, height - 4,9 m, take-off weight - 10,8 tons, maximum horizontal speed - 310 km / h, static ceiling - 3,6 thousand m, practical range - 520 km. Ka-52 is equipped with two gas turbine engines with a capacity of 2,5 thousand liters. from. It carries a built-in 30-mm cannon; four or six points of the suspension can be equipped with guided and uncontrolled air-to-ground and air-to-air missiles, cannons in containers, and bombs. By the beginning of 2012, Progress had manufactured 20 serial Ka-52s, which entered the army’s combat training center aviation in Torzhok (Tver region) and at the air base in Chernihiv (Primorye). In August 2011, the Ministry of Defense signed a contract for 120 billion rubles. for supply by 2020 of 140 such machines. It is planned that the ship version of the Ka-52K will become the main striking force of helicopter carriers of the Mistral type, which should enter service in 2014-2015.

The search and rescue team that arrived at the scene first of all began to search for and assist the crew. The navigator, as reported in the press service of the Ministry of Defense, was killed when the helicopter fell. It was reported that the commander was found alive and even managed to take him to the hospital, where he died. However, by the evening of Tuesday it turned out that Lieutenant Colonel Rakushin had also died in the crash. The crew of the Ka-52 can no longer say anything about the causes of the accident, but there are on-board recorders (the so-called “black boxes”). Their condition is satisfactory and it will be possible to decrypt the records in a few days. A commission was created to investigate the disaster, and for the duration of the investigation, flights of Ka-52 helicopters were temporarily suspended.
It should be noted that the Ministry of Defense in the person of Colonel Vladimir Drik, as always happens in such situations, is laconic. You can understand the military - they need to conduct a full-fledged investigation and draw conclusions and statements from its results. However, as they say, the people want to know, and on this fertile soil, versions, rumors and speculation about the catastrophe have begun to spread. For example, for some people, the questions are caused by the fact that the search for the missing helicopter was carried out "manually" and not by emergency beacons. It is known that they are included after the ejection of the pilots, but they did not work on the fallen Ka-52. The fact is that until recently the crew did not pull the saving handles of the ejection seats. After the fall of the helicopter, three days had not yet passed, but there are already several assumptions on this score, from sane to outright heresy. Among aviation lovers, who were visibly disturbed by the catastrophe, various versions are being exaggerated: some say that the pilots tried to save the helicopter to the last, while other “truth seekers” say “pilots were drunk and therefore not ejected”. Perhaps, it is possible to draw appropriate conclusions not only about the plausibility of versions, but also about the "professional skills" of some home-grown experts.
However, even from the fact that the pilots crashed together with the helicopter, we can draw the appropriate conclusions. In the existing photographs of the Alligator's fall site, it is clear that the helicopter collapsed, but did not catch fire or explode. You can also notice that in the snow around the wreckage in addition to human tracks there are no signs of a long “ride” on the surface of the earth. Thus, it can be assumed that the helicopter fell vertically or almost vertically, with a small horizontal speed. At the same time, the vertical speed of the car was enough to destroy the structure and kill the crew. As you know, all helicopters have the ability to make an emergency landing without engines, using the effect of autorotation. With such a fit, the load on the structure is greater than during normal, but they are clearly insufficient to destroy the structure - its strength is calculated with a considerable margin. It turns out that only the failure of the engines could not cause an accident. One would assume that something happened to the blades, for example, overlap and destruction. But even this detailed version does not look right: firstly, during training flights the pilots should not go into supercritical modes, in which the blades could overlap, and secondly, among the wreckage of the helicopter, you can see bent even on the existing photo and video materials and broken blades. At overlap, they would literally chop off each other and only their root parts would remain on the helicopter. There is another version related to the material part. It concerns, if I may say so, the complex problems with the power plant. To ensure the possibility of autorotation in the composition of the helicopter transmission there is so-called overrunning clutch. It allows the propeller to rotate even when the engine is not running. If the engine and clutch fail at the same time, the helicopter is doomed.
Disaster Ka-52. Causes, versions, guesses

In addition to problems with technology, there may be other versions of the cause of the disaster. It should be noted that the human factor or meteorological conditions are indeed one of the most common causes of accidents. In particular, some mass media referring to some anonymous source said that the weather in the flight area on Monday evening was bad and the helicopter could get into the so-called snow charge. In this case, the pilots could lose orientation, which ultimately led to the disaster. However, this version has its drawbacks. Ka-52, unlike its predecessor Ka-50, has the ability to work in adverse weather conditions. Also, some aviation enthusiasts, carefully examining photos from the crash site, put forward such an assumption: the helicopter did not just fall, but also rolled over itself. This can be seen as a symptom of a strong gust of crosswind. Again, the version can be refuted by the technical features of the machine, because the helicopters of the pine scheme are less sensitive to lateral impulses than the aircraft with one rotor. Finally, the meteorological version is “finished off” with information about weather conditions in the flight area. In the evening of 12, the air temperature was about zero, and the north-west wind had an 3-4 speed of a meter per second. This is much less than is required to create serious problems for pilots.
As you can see, you can assume anything, but for a complete objective investigation, we simply do not have enough information. You can, of course, be like Detective Dupin from the books of Edgar Poe and try to conduct your own investigation based on publications in the media. However, there is a lot of hitch. For this reason, it would be most reasonable to consider our own and others' assumptions solely as versions, but no more. But the findings do no sooner than the military will publish the first results of their investigation, besides waiting for this is not long. As they say in the Ministry of Defense, the black boxes of the crashed helicopter almost did not suffer and their decoding will be completed by the end of this week. Then, hopefully, the responsible persons will share with the public a new portion of the details of the incident, and the mystery of the fall of Ka-52 near Torzk will clarify a little. At the moment, the commission is considering three main versions: design flaws, piloting or maintenance errors, and weather conditions.
In Torzhok held the funeral of the dead pilots. All expenses related to the burial were assumed by the Kamov company. The families of the pilots - M. Fedorov was married, while D. Rakushin left a wife and two children - will receive insurance in the amount of one million rubles. Colleagues of the fallen pilots began to raise funds to help their families.
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  1. Sarus
    Sarus 15 March 2012 08: 44
    Memory to the guys.
    1. older
      older 15 March 2012 09: 07
      The guys really have eternal memory .. But the perpetrators must be found and held accountable for the full program .... Judging by other sources, the base was a complete mess ...
      1. Slayer
        Slayer 15 March 2012 09: 21
        Sorry for the pilots, they are already worth their weight in gold (((((and for the crash, it seems to me that the eternal problem is ours - instead of new parts they put a used one and record it as new in the documents, or the authorities didn’t buy native parts, but their analogues from other cars, in general negligence in order to save money and money laundering.
      2. Col.
        Col. 15 March 2012 12: 54
        Quote: older
        Judging by other sources, the base was a complete mess ...

        "There are six types of ill-fated armies: running, dissolute, sinking, crumbling, disorderly and defeated. These six are not from Heaven and Earth, but from the mistakes of the commander."
        Xun Tzu
        1. Sokerin
          Sokerin 16 March 2012 03: 49
          If the magazine (like the author of this article with fortune telling on the coffee grounds) had ever read this document, then they would not have been talking nonsense, because a certain time is allotted for the investigation of the disaster, at least 10 days, and the members of the investigation commission have no right that -or "tweet" before the approval of the Act of investigation.

          And to our "electorate" already on the day of the tragedy, take out and lay down both the reason and the perpetrators ....



          dated December 2, 1999 N 1329

          On approval of the Rules of investigation of aviation
          accidents and aviation incidents with state
          aircraft in the Russian Federation

          (as amended on January 30, 2008)

      3. slas
        slas 17 March 2012 23: 25
        Quote: older
        . But the perpetrators must be found and brought to justice in full.

        So, the crashed helicopter was discovered only twelve hours after the fall, 10 kilometers northwest of the Torzhok airfield. That is, the wounded pilot, possibly unconscious, lay for half a day in the frost in the snow among the wreckage of his car - almost near the base. More than likely: the pilot died only because he was not provided with medical assistance on time.

        The helicopter crashed not in a mountain gorge, not in a dense taiga for hundreds of miles from settlements. And they found him on foot groups, and not from the air literally a stone's throw from the base. What century are we living in ?!

        Why was there no radar tracking of the car? If it were, then the coordinates of the place where the airborne object disappeared from the radar screen would be determined immediately, and there would be no need to comb the area stupidly. Was there an approved flight route? It is reported that a map of the alleged flight was even published. But in this case, it is generally not clear why the missing car was searched. In five minutes she could fly a maximum of 10-15 kilometers, and a rescue helicopter had to be sent along the route laid immediately. This is not done! Although there have already been reports of the dedication of search engines: as if as many as 300 people, 20 units of ground equipment had been put forward into the alleged area of ​​the fall, two helicopters were lifted into the air. But the trouble is, no one had night vision devices. Why was this overstrain of actually blind forces and means necessary at all?

        About night vision should be said separately.

        According to the developers of infrared and thermal imaging devices, the fallen Ka-52 could be found in minutes.

        To do this, it was required to raise a helicopter equipped with powerful night vision equipment and to rotate it around its axis above the airfield, although it would be more logical to still fly along the route. But, even hovering over the base, a helicopter with a thermal imager would surely detect a pile of metal breathing heat in the snow - what was left of the Ka-52 - even at a distance of 10 kilometers. However, the usual Mi-8, if there was a person with special night vision goggles in front of him, flying along the Alligator route, would have recorded the hot debris after the same five minutes that the last flight of the Ka-52 lasted.

        However, such miracle points in the Center might not have happened. After all, they are still just a “miracle” for the Russian Air Force, although they have been used around the world for twenty years. So here we draw conclusions
    2. Civil
      Civil 15 March 2012 09: 54
      rest in peace... sad
  2. Inzhengr
    Inzhengr 15 March 2012 08: 46
    the black boxes of the crashed helicopter were hardly affected and their decryption will be completed by the end of this week.

    experts, tell me why black boxes take so long to decrypt, does this happen manually ??? )))
    1. domokl
      domokl 15 March 2012 09: 00
      Containers are badly damaged in case of catastrophes ... that is why the autopsy itself and the further processing of information are really manual ...
      1. Inzhengr
        Inzhengr 15 March 2012 09: 25
        information processing is really manual ...

        What does it mean by hand, is there that a punched tape is half-burned ???
        1. urzul
          urzul 15 March 2012 09: 29
          Magnetic tape basically. It may burst or burn.
          1. ZHORA
            ZHORA 15 March 2012 10: 48
            Not a tape, but a wire ...
            1. VAF
              VAF 15 March 2012 14: 57
              Quote: JORA
              Not a tape, but a wire ...

              In parametric - tape, in speech - wire
              But there are always both on all aircraft!

              Another orange “black box” is installed - an audio recorder (ZR), and here is the wire (!). The most common type is Mars-BN. He records crew talks with each other and with the ground. They listen to such recordings on special tape recorders, on which you can select signals with a certain frequency spectrum, repeatedly listen to a particularly interesting part of the conversation and perform some other operations
          2. Col.
            Col. 15 March 2012 11: 36
            Quote: urzul
            Magnetic tape basically. It may burst or burn

            Not a tape. All information is written on the thinnest wire, which is often entangled from a strong blow. And these "beards" made of wire are untangled by hand, very carefully and accurately, and this process is very meticulous and lengthy. Have you ever detangled "beards" from 0.1 line? And here everything is much more serious, you can't rush and cut ...
            1. VAF
              VAF 15 March 2012 15: 07
              Quote: Colonel
              Not a tape. All information is written on the thinnest wire,

              Only on sound recorders or as in our time on voice recorders !!!
              You must remember the famous MC-61? That's where if "there was a beard, so beard"!
              And now basically MARS-BN, from more technologically advanced and more reliable, in terms of security!
          3. VAF
            VAF 15 March 2012 14: 52
            Quote: urzul
            Magnetic tape basically. It may burst or burn.

            This happens extremely, well, very very rarely:
            Protected on-board drive (ZBN), in fact, is the "black box". But it’s not black, but ... orange. Bright coloring is necessary to make it easier to find at the crash site. A “black box” is a streamlined container, inside of which there is a tape drive mechanism, magnetic heads and coils with magnetic tape (!). The coils are located one below the other, and the tape is rewound from top to bottom or from bottom to top. Each intervenes information about 17-20 hours of flight. As soon as the tape is rewound from one coil, the direction of its movement automatically changes, and recording continues, and data on the last 17-20 hours is saved.
            1. FROST
              FROST 18 March 2012 14: 13
              I had to deal with recorders (there were failures on the existing IL-76). I must say that all these recorders in our time are just an anachronism. The quality of recordings on wire is much worse than on film (reliability requirements affect) When most executive cars are free to poke cheap cameras with cheap cameras, it costs nothing to equip planes and helicopters with video recorders installed in the cockpit and around the perimeter of the fuselage. All video and voice information, instrument readings, should not be written on an ancient film or wire, but on a solid memory in digital form. What can I say, when elementary on a micro-usd phone flash drive, a few millimeters in size, 16 GB of information is quietly placed. No volumetric tape (wire) pulling mechanism is needed. The freed up space can be used for much greater wall strengthening and thermal insulation of the container. The quality of the recordings and the information content with the addition of a video component will be incomparably higher than in current systems and this is not difficult to do.
      2. VAF
        VAF 15 March 2012 14: 50
        Quote: domokl
        Containers are badly damaged in disasters.

        Not quite right, shuravi!
        Emergency recorders with magnetic media can withstand a shock overload of 1000 g and can save information when fully covered by fire for 15 minutes; according to the requirements of the modern standard TSO-C124, data safety should be ensured for 30 minutes of full fire coverage, shock overloads of 3400 g for 6 ms, static overloads of more than 2 tons for 5 minutes, and immersion to a depth of 6000 m for a month.
        To facilitate the search for recorders, they incorporate beacons and acoustic “pingers” that automatically turn on in the event of an accident (the latter facilitate the search for recorders under water).
        1. Petrix
          Petrix 16 March 2012 14: 29
          And why are there no DVRs and recording information on flash cards? A dozen microchambers inside and out - neither add weight, nor greatly increase the cost.

          And flash drives are not even susceptible to shock loads.
          1. Kommunar
            Kommunar 16 March 2012 20: 05
            and what will these tens of microcameras fix? Pilots from all angles? Flight recorders are needed primarily for recording data on the operation of units, in which case, in order to fix the defect on other machines. And as a pilot ass scratches engineers less interested. And just the profession of a pilot is the profession of real men.
            Earth down dead.
            1. Petrix
              Petrix 17 March 2012 20: 36
              Camcorders, of course, are used together with recorders. And then you can decrypt for months and come to the conclusion that something has broken off somewhere. And on the video everything is immediately visible. Or go guess purely by sound and parameters, why did the pilot press this button or not?
      3. Wolkin
        Wolkin 15 March 2012 16: 54
        The container is severely damaged by fire. The body of the container is armored, so it can withstand significant shock loads. There was no fire or explosion on the helicopter, the containers must be preserved. I do not know what controls are on the Ka-52, if anyone knows, write. They are constantly being improved both in terms of increasing the recorded flight parameters and in terms of "persistence". Magnetic tape was not used, its function is performed by a thin steel (with magnetic properties) wire, but this is probably already yesterday. Therefore, I would like to know which ARPA is on the Ka-52.
    2. Zerstorer
      Zerstorer 15 March 2012 09: 34
      Direct "decoding" with intact recorders is not difficult. If they are damaged, then jewelry restoration work begins.

      But the "black box" by itself will not answer the question "What exactly happened?" For this, experiments are carried out, hypotheses are put forward on the basis of them, and so on (in short, a whole scientific work). In civil aviation, it is even more difficult - there investigators must prove (and prove scientifically and legally competently) that it was this bolt that broke, this particular attachment point could not stand, and so on. etc.
      1. VAF
        VAF 15 March 2012 15: 25
        Quote: Zerstorer
        But the "black box" by itself will not answer the question "What exactly happened?"

        Absolutely incorrect understanding of this issue !!!
        Depending on the type of the magnetic recorder, it can be set at any current moment of time from the moment it is turned on (or when it is lifted off the ground. The end stop is usually placed on the front leg and when "unloaded" it automatically turns on if he forgot to turn it on, but Rita usually does not let me forget. because it starts immediately "yelling in your ears!") any of the parameters from 64 to 256 !!
        Therefore, any modes, evolutions and actions are registered in a second and simulate the situation and find out the reason is not a big deal, the only thing is long if there are strong deformations or it is necessary to "wipe the matter" or "turn in the right direction"!
        1. Kommunar
          Kommunar 16 March 2012 20: 21
          veteran.air force (1) Yesterday, 15:25 PM

          The pilot is absolutely right. Plus a professional.
        2. Zerstorer
          Zerstorer 19 March 2012 19: 05
          Do not confuse cause with effect. Chart recorders record various parameters (what they have written on them and write) BUT (!) This only helps to simulate the situation. By themselves, these data are a consequence (failure of something, destruction, etc., etc.). Therefore, it is easiest to identify a pilot error from the recorders (since the pilot's actions are clearly reflected). It is much more difficult to detect structural failure or insufficient rigidity, even more difficult with vibrations and vibrations.

          So, recorders are the main source of information but not the only one. for example, it would be nice to study the layout of the debris on the ground, eyewitness accounts (if any), and documentation of the board. etc.
      2. Kommunar
        Kommunar 16 March 2012 20: 16
        But the "black box" by itself will not answer the question "What exactly happened?"

        Well, don’t tell. Analysis of the data of the recorders just helps to identify the cause.
        For example, a sharp temperature drop, say in the engine, most likely indicates a fire in it, respectively, abnormal indications have already been given to us by the investigation. But naturally, such investigations are painstaking, skilled work.
        1. Zerstorer
          Zerstorer 20 March 2012 09: 29
          Well, so I wrote that the "black box" is the main source of information. But this is the direction in which you need to dig and nothing more.

          I will give an example. A lot of KZA (control recording equipment) is put on experimental and experimental machines, flights and landings are filmed on video. And still, with the cause of defects and failures they sometimes suffer for years. And when there is not so much data, it is difficult to draw definite conclusions (but, of course, it is possible). Moreover, you have to prove whose cant it was ... Here's the respected Kommunar gave an example of an engine fire ... Suppose we understand the reason for the flight accident - a broken compressor blade. BUT (!!!) the reason for the compressor blade breakdown must still be found and whose error should be proved: the developer of the aircraft, the developer of the engine, the manufacturer of the aircraft, the manufacturer of the engine, and the operator. You must prove it so that the guilty pleads guilty. And therefore, you cannot get rid of black boxes alone.
    3. Professor
      Professor 15 March 2012 10: 22
      1. Condolences to the families of children.
      2. Decryption is manual; you need to analyze a lot of information. And to make unambiguous conclusions on the basis of this information, generally units of specialists can.
      3. Technique has failed, is failing and will fail. Yes, and it is human nature to make mistakes.
      1. ZHORA
        ZHORA 15 March 2012 10: 50
        Manually, this is if the flight recorder is collected in pieces or the old technology board, and so the information is taken and driven into a computer and in 3D with all the instrument readings on the monitor shows the entire flight ...
        1. Inzhengr
          Inzhengr 15 March 2012 11: 30
          Zhor, and here the "local experts" say ashes of punched tape ...
          1. VAF
            VAF 15 March 2012 15: 30
            Quote: Engineering
            Zhor, and here the "local experts" say ashes of punched tape ...

            These "local specialists" are probably my age, when were K3-63 and SARPP-12 ???

            I'll try for you simply:
            Systems are constantly being improved. On old aircraft there were BUR, in which the parameters were written in ink on a paper tape.
            It is clear what quality and safety could be here. Then the film became the information carrier, and the drive was essentially a loop oscilloscope.
            Now mainly used magnetic drives. The information here is recorded in digital form, and the carrier is a magnetic tape or a special wire.
            New-generation recorders with a solid-state storage medium are already appearing. This provides even greater safety and quality. Opportunities for the number of fixed parameters are also growing.
            If the SARPP-12 system could register only 12 parameters, the MSRP-64, respectively, 64, then TESTER-U3 is already 256.
            1. Wolkin
              Wolkin 15 March 2012 17: 06
              No, probably these specialists of my age, because I also found barospidographs.
              In those early years, the "black boxes" were really black. So did the service people who smoked drums. You will understand what I mean.
              1. VAF
                VAF 15 March 2012 18: 46
                Quote: Wolkin
                because I also found barospidographs.

                I’m faced with them, thank God I didn’t have to!
                And I support your post at 100%! Set off, i.e. +!
              2. Vadim555
                Vadim555 15 March 2012 18: 48
                Quote: Wolkin
                Like the service team who smoked the drums

                And "fixed" with kerosene wink
                Quote: Wolkin
                You will understand what I'm talking about.
              3. askort154
                askort154 16 March 2012 14: 28
                Don't forget how to draw "barograms" ?! Oh youth, youth, if only you can return ...
            2. Kommunar
              Kommunar 16 March 2012 20: 24
              Another plus. I say professional, nice to read, informative
        2. Professor
          Professor 15 March 2012 12: 55
          "Manually" means that even processed data is sitting and analyzing people for a long time and tediously.
        3. VAF
          VAF 15 March 2012 15: 26
          Quote: JORA
          and so the information is taken and driven into a computer and in 3D with all the readings of the instruments on the monitor shows the entire flight ...

          Absolutely for sure !!!
  3. plohoi
    plohoi 15 March 2012 09: 21
    Yes, sorry for the pilots. Only this helicopter was adopted, as it had already fallen. And the fact that they did not catapult - I think only two reasons. Or the mechanism got defective (they are not tested or what?) Or they tried to stretch the vert to the end, and then the authorities would tear off their heads for the loss of one of the few copies. In general, in vain and for nothing they died ...
    1. Kazak_30
      Kazak_30 15 March 2012 11: 21
      I don't think the pilots would have had anything! They would have screwed up a little, the reports were written not without it, but to die because of the technology. In flight units, the rule "pilots are more expensive than helicopter planes!" Most likely the pilots were trying to pull the car or everything happened very quickly!
      Bright memory!!
  4. - = KeepeR = -
    - = KeepeR = - 15 March 2012 09: 25
    I wonder what they will say for reasons, I'm afraid the true ones will shut up again ...
    If the equipment is to blame, then this is a blow to the prestige of such an advertised and highly reliable machine as the Ka-52 (all the more, blaming it on the failure of the equipment due to the exhaustion of resources does not fit into the logic), if the pilots, it’s also not clear - an experienced military pilot, training flight (not aerobatics they did there), a new technique ... I do not believe it.

    Sad, bright memory to the guys.
    1. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 15 March 2012 10: 43
      There are many factors. Including the lack of reliability of individual components and assemblies, which can fail due to the banal reason for poor assembly and material mismatch.
      1. Kazak_30
        Kazak_30 15 March 2012 11: 26
        My father-in-law collects helicopters in the NSC mi-8 and mi-24 (conducts and sets up an electrician by car), so that he wouldn’t sign under each act, in case the helicopter crashes and prove that because of the electrics, the father-in-law can sit down, therefore everyone works there not for fear but for conscience! And not only in the NSC so everywhere!
        And at the expense of a blow to the image, it’s only for downgrade, spacecraft around the world enjoys great respect, therefore, because of one machine, saying that a helicopter is not very stupid!
        1. 37dmds
          37dmds 15 March 2012 13: 32
          Extinguishing a forest fire in Kemer. Turkey 2011
          Two spacecraft and 1 MI-8
        2. Chicot 1
          Chicot 1 15 March 2012 13: 53
          The fact that there is such tight control over the quality of the assembly is certainly good. But malfunctions arise in the most advanced machines and mechanisms. No one has ever been immune from this and is unlikely to ever be ... It is a pity, only because sometimes people die because of this. You can make the same new helicopter, and not one. And you won’t bring a person back ...
  5. abzrais
    abzrais 15 March 2012 09: 26
    I would like to know the true causes of the disaster on this tape. We are waiting for publication. Then we will discuss. And now we can’t guess anything. Why all the disasters in Torzhok happen at night. This is not the first case ..
    1. black_eagle
      black_eagle 15 March 2012 16: 09
      Correctly noticed about the results of the examination, we will wait. And that accidents occur more often at night, it’s clear that it’s more difficult to fly at night
  6. bubla5
    bubla5 15 March 2012 10: 01
    Probably pulled to the end, the car is expensive, that’s risking to the limit
  7. Ragnarov
    Ragnarov 15 March 2012 10: 06
    Thanks to the author for a professional analysis of possible causes.

    I would like to hope that this is again not the negligence of the manufacturers and the carelessness of the technical service. Otherwise, there is no need to fight with us, with such and such "masters" :(
  8. Bener
    Bener 15 March 2012 10: 15
    One thing seems to me that this will ruin the future of the most promising car. And that is not casual.

    In general, it would be better if they made night helicopters than to modernize and build all sorts of new "Armata". ! the helicopter costs 10 modern tanks. And these tanks will not be able to do anything against him if he works from an ambush and from a distance of 5-6 kilometers.
    1. Footmansur86
      Footmansur86 15 March 2012 10: 41
      Quote: BENER
      the helicopter costs 10 modern tanks. And these tanks can’t do anything against him if he works from an ambush and from a distance of 5-6 kilometers.

      For this, there are means of military air defense, and quite effective.

      Let the children rest in peace.
      1. Viking
        Viking 15 March 2012 11: 58
        Quote: Footmansur86
        For this, there are means of military air defense, and quite effective.

        Moreover, the cost of which is one time less than that of a helicopter, but of a tank.
  9. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 15 March 2012 10: 38
    Conflicting information however. At first, the commander was alive, and they even managed to deliver him to the medical facility, where he allegedly died, but now it turns out that he died during the accident ...
    However, the ends do not meet here, however. And I think that the whole truth will never be told to us ...

    PS As far as I know, after the death of Major General Vorobyov in a Ka-50 helicopter, all modes of this type of aircraft were banned from flight modes that could provoke an overlap of the coaxial rotor blades. So this version can be immediately and safely swept into the basket ...
  10. sealord
    sealord 15 March 2012 10: 54
    And the fourth version - sabotage - is not even considered? Congratulations to gentlemen "experts". The dead - as always, extreme (physically), but according to the results of the investigation - we'll see.
    1. ZHORA
      ZHORA 15 March 2012 11: 20
      Without paranoid in any way, the version of crooked hands in production, judging by the quality of similar products, is much more likely ..
      1. sealord
        sealord 15 March 2012 11: 31
        Without Zhoriks with crooked brains (with one looped gyrus) - it is definitely impossible. In production - there is a greater percentage of sabotage!
        SIGNIFICANT - you are ours.
    2. Inzhengr
      Inzhengr 15 March 2012 11: 38
      I think one of the options that have the right to exist. On official business, he was at many enterprises of the Russian defense industry, access control of outsiders in many is very weak.
      1. sealord
        sealord 15 March 2012 11: 56
        Microcircuits on Phobos - for "experts" - an unfortunate accident. And pulls on a deliberate sabotage.
  11. zhidikhanov
    zhidikhanov 15 March 2012 11: 23
    No million can replace a husband and father and brother with the victims, but I really need everyone, and I’m honest. I feel sorry for all the victims of the fighting and especially think about peacetime, but it turns out ............. ...
    Eternal memory to all who guard the peaceful sky over Great Russia!
  12. Ty3uk
    Ty3uk 15 March 2012 11: 53
    The article is correct, plus.

    But what kind of video is attached to the article? The gypsy is a famous echsperd, popping his sting wherever he goes! sad
  13. vovan100
    vovan100 15 March 2012 11: 53
    or the rotation of the screw in the rotation mode is jammed, or a complete control failure. Otherwise we would have planned. By the way, at low altitude, if the engine fails, you may not have time to enter the rotation mode and extinguish the speed ....
  14. mib1982
    mib1982 15 March 2012 12: 12
    Sincere condolences to the family.
  15. schta
    schta 15 March 2012 12: 43
    Ultimately, to hell with her with the car, most importantly people ...
  16. Nechai
    Nechai 15 March 2012 13: 36
    Quote: abzrais
    . Why then in Torzhok all disasters occur at night

    Because they study, they fly, including at night. In difficult weather conditions.
    1. abzrais
      abzrais 15 March 2012 13: 54
      He himself served in the center. I know. that fly at night. I don’t remember in which year Kamovskaya also crashed at night. And also along the route.
  17. leon-iv
    leon-iv 15 March 2012 13: 40
    Guys do not need to look for problems where they are not.
    Judging by the photo, he fell from a low height. The engines are muffled, the men managed. Chassis released. Most likely a very strong gust of wind with a snow charge. The men tried to save the car.
    Earth they rest in peace
    1. Wolkin
      Wolkin 15 March 2012 16: 02
      In flight, at a speed of 150 k / h, gusts of wind are not terrible.
      1. VAF
        VAF 15 March 2012 18: 58
        Quote: Wolkin
        In flight, at a speed of 150 k / h, gusts of wind are not terrible.

        In principle, yes, it only depends not on the flight speed, but on the wind speed, and then only on the take-off, landing and weighing modes, and in the city without problems, except that the side stream flow, but this does not happen !!!
    2. VAF
      VAF 15 March 2012 18: 56
      Quote: leon-iv
      Guys do not need to look for problems where they are not.

      No one is looking, but simply analyzing, each as best he can!
      After all, only in a dispute can truth be born ?!
      1. Not necessarily, they could take autorotations, but if it were small, then it would definitely not be up to the chassis!
      2. The chassis is not released, but released !!!
      3. The wind has nothing to do with it, especially since the forecast gave only 3-4m / sec.
      4. Snow charge all the more so, because. at night, even in the PMU fly only on the IFR!
      5. The fact that they tried to sit down, definitely yes and honor and praise, fought for the car until the end !!!
      6. But the fact that it is turned upside down and wrinkled means that they were sitting down with strong angular animosity and not only horizontal, so my conclusion remained the same, as in the very first posts — engine failure with transition to control system failure!
      They rest in peace and blessed memory!
      It is impossible to forget, it is impossible to return!
  18. Daka
    Daka 15 March 2012 13: 45
    My sincere condolences
  19. rumpeljschtizhen
    rumpeljschtizhen 15 March 2012 14: 17
    I am more struck by this accident ... the rescue operation itself .......... the plane crashed 10 km .......... searches were postponed from weather conditions ...... the second helicopter didn’t die right away, but lay there for 12 hours .. found him still alive ......... died in the hospital (I crap attitude towards people)
    Yes, and look for a helicopter in a radius of 10-15 km for so long ?????? ........ (here it is the real situation in the army)
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 15 March 2012 14: 31
      ground continued
      And you try to climb in a blizzard by helicopter.
    2. sealord
      sealord 15 March 2012 14: 37
      Now that they have found still alive - they will deny, they are already denying.
      And what kind of "circus" with preliminary results will be - we'll see.
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv 15 March 2012 14: 43
        I have a colleague, a former helicopter pilot engineer, who else flew in Chechnya. He said that they always lost cars. And often rescuers did not find it quickly, especially in the SMU.
        By the way, people are aware that in the turntable you can safely fall from 1000m and stay alive and from 100 to kill tightly
        1. rumpeljschtizhen
          rumpeljschtizhen 15 March 2012 15: 34
          dear leon-iv doesn't it seem like helicopters are constantly losing and rescuers are not working efficiently and it's been a long time .. somehow we have to deal with it. it's not an excuse .... our beloved mole has always been our weak spot
        2. Wolkin
          Wolkin 15 March 2012 15: 59
          Respected! These were not military operations, but a planned flight along the route.
          The accident occurred in the area of ​​the airfield. The weather was normal for this type of helicopter.
      2. rumpeljschtizhen
        rumpeljschtizhen 15 March 2012 15: 32
        About the fact that they will deny that they found a living, this is a fact. Our military has studied one tactic perfectly ......... the tactics of covering their asses!
  20. voin-xnumx
    voin-xnumx 15 March 2012 15: 51
    Eternal memory to guys
  21. ward
    ward 15 March 2012 16: 41
    Everything is of course clear that in the end they’ll figure it out ... But you won’t get the guys back ... And how it happened that they didn’t look for them at night ... This is of course paranoia, but the dead shame doesn’t have anything ... They hang it on them, opinions have already appeared that the crew is to blame ...
  22. MIKK1972
    MIKK1972 15 March 2012 18: 41

    Dmitry Valerevich
    1. Vikl
      Vikl 19 March 2012 17: 12
      How like a father! Everlasting memory!
  23. wow
    wow 15 March 2012 22: 30
    Sorry guys. Eternal memory to them! He spent his entire conscious life in the Air Force, so I know well what it is to learn about the deaths of those with whom I spoke half an hour ago, to bury them. Unfortunately, losses in flight operations are almost inevitable, especially when developing a new AT.

    Sorry guys. Eternal memory to them! He spent his entire conscious life in the Air Force, so I know well what it is to learn about the deaths of those with whom I spoke half an hour ago, to bury them. Unfortunately, losses in flight operations are almost inevitable, especially when developing a new AT.
  24. Storm
    Storm 15 March 2012 22: 46
    -15 qualifying.
    Great news! I hope that all Russian aircraft will soon get there!
    1. brodyy1984
      brodyy1984 16 March 2012 16: 06
      I wonder since when did death become great news for you?
    2. viruskvartirus
      viruskvartirus 16 March 2012 18: 17
      the death of two people is great news? dude you know, but god ...
    3. voin-xnumx
      voin-xnumx 16 March 2012 18: 37
      But the Ukrainian Air Force does not fly and do not fall? I saw what is happening in Melitopol with airplanes
      1. sealord
        sealord 16 March 2012 18: 47
        I do not agree with you "warrior_78" - the nationality and place of residence has nothing to do with it - just - enimals.
  25. rumpeljschtizhen
    rumpeljschtizhen 15 March 2012 23: 09
    Storm you are a flawed person (literary word)
    1. sealord
      sealord 16 March 2012 12: 15
      Is the man ???
  26. Nilf-gaard
    Nilf-gaard 16 March 2012 03: 24
    I feel sorry for families. I hope compensation will come.
    In general, all this is very strange.
  27. LIS10411
    LIS10411 16 March 2012 11: 12
    (Eternal memory to the pilots!) The Ministry of Defense was supposed to conclude a contract for the supply of (150 vehicles) after the accident, the transaction was slowed down. The question is, maybe this is not just an accident. And the horse’s move. There was more than one accident with this helicopter.
    1. sealord
      sealord 16 March 2012 12: 51
      So the FOURTH version appears.
      PS - all the same, the Internet (collective intelligence) - has prospects!
    2. brodyy1984
      brodyy1984 16 March 2012 16: 17
      (Eternal memory to the guys) It’s too early to draw conclusions (everything will be clear after deciphering the recorders) but the interests of the Moscow Region and the manufacturers of the KA-52 clashed. Most likely they are attributed to the human factor. (In my life there were 2 such cases in both of which won the ARZ) Pilots in Torzhok are great professionals I saw their work more than once.
  28. Trevis
    Trevis 16 March 2012 22: 51
    Guys sorry!
  29. Wolkin
    Wolkin 17 March 2012 16: 56
    We do not know all the details and facts, and perhaps we will never know. We cannot judge the reasons without sufficient information. From what the media write, we proceed in our assumptions. The article is called "Reasons, versions, guesses". By the way, the sworn friends of Russia will also study all the publications and put a memorandum on the table to their superiors, for example: "On the state of provision and conduct of training flights in the training centers of the Russian Air Force and on the training of flight personnel ... and so on."

    ... Among aviation enthusiasts, which the catastrophe noticeably alarmed, a variety of versions are circulated ...

    Not alarmed, but alarmed. Because we are also not indifferent. And the versions are not being exaggerated by professional journalists whose task is to attract readers, and there at least the grass will not grow. And the first versions of the catastrophe began to "give out on the mountain" was the media. Like, "according to unverified data", "as reported by a source close to ...", etc.
    BUT from what they said, it turns out: The flights were carried out day with a transition or night. Squadron commander, 1st class pilot, that is, trained day and night in simple and difficult weather conditions, (what kind of raid on the Ka-52, on which type he received 1st class, is not known), with a young right pilot (or l. - the operator, I don't know) took off on a route with a landing on the site. Weather: cloudy (probably 10 points. Visibility at west is unknown) wind 3-4 m / s is not gusty, snow charges are likely. Temperature -3 - 0. They passed along the route, or before the route, tried to sit on the site. Was the site with the leadership or "on fires"? The site was banned. At an altitude of 200 m at a speed of 150 kph, they fall into a snow charge. There is nothing dangerous. You need to get into a snowdrift so that the engines stop. Icing is dangerous, but I don’t think that it would be released in flight with intense icing. Or is there something wrong with the de-icing system? Why didn't they find it right away, got lost, is unlikely. We selected the site ourselves, it is also doubtful, but it looks like they deviated from the route. According to the media, the PSS was raised and the ground one also came out, but they found it only in the morning.
    Typically, critical situations are rarely the result of one mistake, more often it is a set of flaws that make up the emergency situation. In this case
    apparently the whole complex worked. The guide, in my opinion, is "below the plinth". And then the weather may have intertwined, the failure of technology, and maybe erroneous actions. This is my personal opinion.
    When people die, it is always grief. My sincere condolences to family and friends.

  30. kavz56
    kavz56 18 March 2012 12: 14
    Firstly, he is a 2nd-class pilot and had a break from the SMU, and you still need to see what kind of pilot he is here on this link not everything went smoothly at the school.
    1. Wolkin
      Wolkin 18 March 2012 16: 24
      I looked. On your link only about rewarding ke in 2008.
      Probably in 3 years I got 1st grade.
      I looked at the site of SVVAUL Syzran.
      even at school he did not have everything going smoothly

      However, he is the squadron commander.
      I did not read about the break, I did not find the data. I just assumed, not argued.
  31. LIS10411
    LIS10411 19 March 2012 10: 12
    why some are obsessing Russia, the Russian military is it really their fault that someone else has a saloooooo in his head.
    1. Wolkin
      Wolkin 23 March 2012 17: 04
      The Russian military is not to blame, they are the first to begin to pay with their lives and blood for the mistakes of the leadership. And after the military, the population begins to pay. It's like on the "Titanic", if they don't drive well, then everyone will soon have to swim in cold water.