“We are optimizing due to modernization, not reductions”

23
Corvettes, export frigates, multi-body warships - the share of military orders of Zelenodolsk PKB today exceeds 90%. In the light of the upcoming International Navy Salon, FlotProm correspondent discussed with the general director of the design bureau Vitaly Volkov the prospects for military trimarans, import substitution of power plants and modern shipbuilding technologies.

Vitaly Yuryevich, on the eve of the International Naval Salon-2017, let us recall the ships shown by the Zelenodolsk PKB at MVMS-2015. What was the development of the project for the frigate Rusich-1, interesting for its trimaran lines? What difficulties did the design bureau experts face when designing it? How did they react to the development in the command of the Navy?



The small frigate Rusich-1 project remained out of the focus of the Navy command. At the same time, the innovative character of this project remained unsurpassed. Its operational capabilities are many times greater than the potential of traditional single-hulled ships with the same weapons, primarily due to the almost unlimited conditions for the use of weapons in the sea.


General Director of Zelenodolsk PKB Vitaly Volkov

Despite these and other qualitative advantages of the proposed modifications of ships with outriggers, the Navy does nothing to implement them, citing limited funding. At the same time, it is proved that they are more economical both in construction and in operation.

The construction of more wasteful traditional single-hull ships that are operatively flawed continues. That is the main difficulty in the implementation of ships with outriggers like "Rusich" in the gland.

If we talk about multi-hull projects, the concept of SWATH (Small Waterplane Area Twin Hull, a vessel with a small cross-section area on the waterline) is very interesting. How does Zelenodolsk PKB evaluate this concept? Can SWATH ships be used for military purposes?

The architectural and constructive scheme of the vessel with a small area of ​​the waterline (MFS) was arranged with the main goal of “improving” the ship’s roll by reducing the volume of its elements being washed up in waves.

Theoretically, this idea is correct, but, as is known, any constructive decision on a ship causes quite a few attendant consequences, including negative ones. An analysis of the specific features of the LMP shows that in this case the number and significance of such effects are particularly large. So, for example, in the event of a pitching resonance, its seaworthiness deteriorates due to slamming of a horizontal bridge.


The project of a small frigate "Rusich-1"

Due to a significant increase in the area of ​​SMPV metal structures, both surface and underwater, the size of the wetted surface significantly increases and, by reducing the mass of the payload, the mass fraction of the hull structures. On multi-mode ships of the type of military, in which small, economic moves are normalized, the resistance to movement, and with it the required power of the power plant and fuel consumption, increases significantly on these moves.

There are other serious shortcomings of the MELS that cannot be fully covered in the interview. Their combination makes the application of the MMP system for military ships impractical.

A detailed analysis of the features of the SMPV scheme was published in the magazine "Shipbuilding" No. 2 for 2007 a year in the article "Each ship architecture has its own scope of application" by the chief designer of multihull vessels and ships of Doctor of Technical Sciences Stanislav Anatolyevich Rudenko from Zelenodolsk PKB.

Zelenodolsk Design Bureau designed an ice class tanker 03182. It will remain the only Arctic vessel in the catalog of Zelenodolsk Design Bureau or the development of the line is planned. fleet for the development of the northern seas?

Currently, two such tankers with ice class Arc4 are being built under the state contracts at the Eastern Shipyard (Vladivostok) and two more at the Volga shipyard (Nizhny Novgorod). In addition, the state program provides for the construction of several more ships of the project.


Small sea tanker project 03182

So, to enhance the Arctic grouping of the Navy, it was decided to build two tankers based on the 03182 project with the Arc5 ice class. However, so far the work on them has not been deployed.

From 2018 of the year in Rybinsk Saturn the serial production of domestic gas turbine engines will begin, the power of which will allow them to be installed on frigate class ships. To which projects of Zelenodolsk PKB will the Russian-made GTE be incorporated?

Our company has been cooperating with NPO Saturn for many years. Over the years, we jointly worked out gas turbine units based on GTE M75RU, M70FRU and M90FR, in addition, the bureau experts took part in testing GTE M75RU and M70FRU.

At present, we are jointly working on options for replacing the units of the production of GP NPKG Zorya-Mashproekt on ships of projects 11540 and 11661К. As for promising developments, here we can talk about gas turbine units for the 1124MA project and a trimaran based on the GTE M75RU, M70FRU and M90FR.

In the industry today they talk a lot about the implementation of the import substitution program. Tell us what kind of activity do KB specialists carry out in order to transfer the created projects to a fully domestic component base?

In accordance with the instructions of the Government of the Russian Federation and within the framework of the implementation of decisions taken by the Council of the Military Industrial Commission for Shipbuilding on reducing dependence on foreign-made products, work has begun on the preparation of proposals for import substitution.

To fulfill the state defense order, the Ministry of Defense determined the list of projects of the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau, for which “Planned measures for import substitution and reducing dependence on supplies of foreign products used in the development (production, repair) and“ Schedule of measures for import substitution and reducing dependence on deliveries of products of foreign production used in the development (production, repair) ".

The planned activities reflect proposals to reduce dependence on the use of foreign materials and components, replace equipment imported, used in the Zelenodolsk PKB projects for domestic equipment, proposals to change the logistics of the equipment supplied and create an insurance stock of components and electronic component base.

Radio electronic corporations are engaged in the substitution of electronic component base products, PCBs and construction plants are involved in replacing the main shipboard equipment and materials.

According to the construction orders of the 21631 project, the replacement of the main equipment, components and materials in terms of import substitution will be performed in accordance with the proposals set forth in the "Scheduled Import Substitution Measures", as agreed with the customer in the prescribed manner. An alternative to imported equipment is available for all items.

So, in particular, in accordance with the decision "On changing the equipment configuration of small rocket ships of the 21631 project", work is currently underway to replace the GEM (diesel, gearbox, control system).

“We are optimizing due to modernization, not reductions”

Small rocket ship project 21631 "Serpukhov"

In case of need for aggregate replacement of imported equipment from in-service projects, such will be carried out during repairs and modernization of orders, following the results of determining the scope of work after fault detection of ship systems and mechanisms, in accordance with the proposals set out in the "Import Import Replacement Measures", coordination with the customer in the prescribed manner.

As part of the planned measures to import substitution and reduce dependence on the supply of Ukrainian products, all equipment for their production has been replaced by domestic ones.

Composite materials are increasingly used in Russian shipbuilding and shipbuilding. They build buildings, superstructures, masts. What are the challenges facing the designer when using composite materials?

The competitiveness of ships made of composite materials is due to their high specific strength, achieved by private mass savings and the possibility of improving operating efficiency due to this economy. The task of the designer is to create such a competitive vessel, in which the potential of composite materials is maximally revealed and negative factors are reduced or delayed as much as possible.

If there are requirements in the TOR for the use of composite materials in the new design, Zelenodolsk PCB is ready to solve such problems.

Another promising trend in the industry is the modular principle of building ships. In the new projects of Zelenodolsk PKB is it implemented?

Analyzing foreign experience of using modular concepts of construction, it can be noted that this principle cannot be automatically transferred to the construction of warships. This is due to the high degree of saturation of their premises, the requirements of positioning accuracy, as well as the operation of its payload, which is the armament.

The most rational, in my opinion, is a zone-modular design, providing for the optimization of large volumes of the ship in the areas of weapons, the manufacture and maximum saturation of these volumes outside the stocks. Particularly promising is the implementation of this method in the fundamentally new project of Zelenodolsk PKB, a trimaran platform with outriggers.

Among the strategic tasks of PCB are the optimization of the production structure. Tell, at the expense of what it is carried out?

The basis of the strategic development of Zelenodolsk PKB is the solution of the following tasks: fulfillment of tasks for the state defense order, quality assurance and development time of marine equipment corresponding to world standards, as well as full satisfaction of the demand of domestic customers in the framework of the United Shipbuilding Corporation in the field of civil shipbuilding.


USC stand

However, the current situation with the state defense order and, in this connection, the lack of sufficient production load for individual units forces us to solve organizational problems. Since the production structure and staffing table are created under the nomenclature and the amount of work performed by the enterprise, they are adjusted annually.

The main thing for us is people, therefore we try to reduce costs by optimizing the management structure. This happens by combining underutilized structural units and the abolition of leadership positions.

However, the production structure covers not only the sphere of management, but also the state of the material base of the enterprise, technological processes. In this regard, the modernization of production is a form of optimization of the production structure.
The vector of movement in this direction was assigned to us by the federal target program "Development of Marine Civil Engineering for 2009-2016 Years". Thanks to this program, a radical technical re-equipment of fixed assets and an experimental base is carried out, as well as the working conditions of the workers are improved.
I would like to hope that in the end, the work carried out by Zelenodolsk PCB in this direction will bring tangible benefits to the bureau.

It is known that Zelenodolsk PKB plans to introduce the Aveva Marine design system. What are the advantages of this system and what will be the effect of its implementation?

Zelenodolsk PKB has been actively using the Aveva Marine system as a basic design system since the 2009 year, at the moment with the help of the system several projects of different directions have already been completed. The Aveva Marine system is not only implemented in the enterprise’s workflow, but is also linked to the technological process of other enterprises, for example, Zelenodolsk Shipbuilding Plant, Baltiysky Plant, Moscow Shipbuilding and Ship Repair Plant, Volga Shipyard, and others.

The main advantage of the Aveva Marine system is to work in a single information space for all design specializations (specialists in the hull, electrical equipment, ship systems, rebuilding, general design disciplines). Any specialist, placing designs, equipment, communications, in the process of work, conducts a correlation with the environment, has the ability to quickly influence adjacent units, avoid collisions in the initial design stages.

Ultimately, this contributes to reducing the cost of eliminating errors already "in the metal" at the construction plant. In addition, the introduction of the Aveva Marine system made it possible to closely approach the concept of a unified information model within the framework of PLM (Product Lifecycle Management) objectives. Thus, the model created in Zelenodolsk PKB is suitable not only for direct construction, but also for solving operational problems (talking about information support systems for the struggle for survivability and interactive electronic technical guidance), maintenance, repair and disposal of the product.


Aveva Marine Design System

In addition, the Aveva Marine system allows you to prepare a model for transmission to the virtual reality system based on IC.IDO, which allows us to hold a collective discussion of complex design issues that require the involvement of engineers of different specializations.

What other technical upgrades does the PCB plan to conduct or has already held lately?

According to the project "Technical re-equipment in the development of design and development potential of Zelenodolsk design and development bureau" in the field of civil shipbuilding ", which ended in 2015 year, the main objects were: a set of equipment for the situational center of the chief designer of design bureau for assessment and decision-making on ships and robotic complexes at all stages of the life cycle; software and hardware complex of the virtual presenter (PAK VP) of the chief designer; a complex of equipment and software of the simulation and modeling stand (KIMS) of a surface ship (vessel) - "virtual ship (vessel)".









In the future, up to 2020, it is planned to create a unique research base for the development of design solutions for the development of equipment for the development of offshore fields, including complexes for engineering analysis, a comprehensive study of the characteristics of technical systems of any complexity and experimental development of structures, as well as for the development of interactive electronic technical manuals.

How is the personnel problem, which is typical for the shipbuilding industry, solved in the design office? Are there programs for interaction with universities, training courses for young specialists? What motivates young people to work in the PCB?

After the global conversion that occurred in the military-industrial complex, once the most powerful sector of Russian industry, the issue of staffing has become particularly relevant for many enterprises in the shipbuilding industry. Zelenodolsk Design Bureau is no exception.

At the same time, we had to face such challenges and problems as the aging of personnel and the shortage of skilled workers of the middle age category and the threat of losing the continuity of generations of designers. No one has abolished labor mobility along with global competition "for brains" in the labor market. That is why special attention is paid to the work of training young specialists in the bureau.

The training system for Zelenodolsk PKB begins with working with school students. In order to draw the attention of schoolchildren to the design activity, specialists of the personnel service of the bureau and design departments attend educational institutions during the school year, where they meet with high school students, talking about stories Zelenodolsk PKB, famous designer-countrymen, ship projects, popular specialties.

For schoolchildren and students, we conduct excursions, during which they become acquainted with the work of the design engineer and the methods of designing ships. In gymnasium No. XXUMX of Zelenodolsk by the forces of its teachers and students with the assistance of our PCB and Zelenodolsk Shipbuilding Plant them. AM Gorky created a shipbuilding museum. Every year, in conjunction with the city's Center for Employment, the bureau specialists participate in holding job fairs for graduates of schools in the city and district.

Unfortunately, in our region there are no higher education institutions that prepare "specialized" specialists. With the disappearance of the graduates distribution system, it has become impossible to receive young professionals from shipbuilding universities of St. Petersburg and Nizhny Novgorod in sufficient numbers. Therefore, since 2009 of the year, Zelenodolsk PKB participates in a federal program aimed at training scientists, specialists and personnel for organizations of the military-industrial complex, approved by order of the Ministry of Education and Science of the Russian Federation No. XXUMX in 180 year.

In accordance with this order, we had the opportunity to annually send a certain number of applicants to obtain higher professional education in the popular specialty at the expense of the federal budget to educational institutions, including the leading shipbuilding universities of the country: St. Petersburg State Marine Technical University, Nizhny Novgorod Technical University, Kazan National Research Technical University named after A.N. Tupolev-KAI (KNITU-KAI).

For the students themselves, a significant support is that, while studying for free at the university, they have a guarantee of employment in their specialty after graduation, plus they have the opportunity, depending on their academic performance, to receive two scholarships - state and from the organization.

With entrants enrolling in universities through a targeted education program, bilateral agreements are entered into “enterprise-student”, providing, in addition to additional scholarships and travel compensation to the place of study and back twice a year, mandatory training in the bureau at least 5 years after graduation .

Over the 7 years of participation in this program, we sent 27 graduates to schools and colleges in the city to train, but unfortunately, only 6 graduates were employed in the organization for design positions. The rest refused to return after graduation or were expelled for academic failure. In accordance with the contract, they returned or refund the money spent on them during the period of study.

However, by 2019, the staff of design engineers at the expense of this program must be supplemented by 4 young professionals who are well trained in specialized educational institutions.


St. Petersburg State Marine Technical University

In the issue of training specialized specialists, we associate certain hopes with the Center for Shipbuilding, opened in 2013 at the Institute aviation, ground transportation and energy of the Kazan National Research Technical University named after A.N. Tupolev (KNITU-KAI) with the support of the Government of the Republic of Tatarstan.

At the end of 2016, we made a decision in principle to support the proposal of the university management on the establishment of the design and construction of ships and vessels on the territory of Zelenodolsk PKB.

To do this, we have everything we need: people who are professionals in their field, a modern hardware-software system for virtual prototyping, an experimental pool equipped with the latest technology, their experimental production with a unique machine park and a base on the Volga Bay. The agreement on the opening of the base department was signed in January of this year, other necessary documents have already been developed and are being negotiated.

In addition, with this university, close scientific and technical cooperation is carried out in the framework of joint research and development work on trimaran topics, the creation of aquaplanes, the introduction of innovative projects, and the performance of contractual works.

I would especially like to note the cooperation in the preparation of future specialists of Zelenodolsk PKB with the Zelenodolsk Institute of Mechanical Engineering and Information Technologies (a branch of KNRTU-KAI), the students of which our company organizes production and pre-diploma practice.


General conference of youth in the territory of Zelenodolsk PKB

We also demand graduates of Kazan State Energy University, Kazan Federal University, Kazan National Research Technological University (KKTI), Kazan State Academy of Architecture and Construction, and other educational institutions of a technical nature.

An important place in the process of training engineering personnel is occupied by the system of in-house training as the most effective form of retraining specialists for production tasks facing the Zelenodolsk PKB. The bureau has developed its own program of industrial training for young specialists and bureau employees who have graduated from non-shipbuilding schools and who do not have work experience in design organizations, which includes a short course in all specialties of the ship. For 3, about 60 people have already been trained under this program.

And, of course, the participation of young workers in various thematic conferences, exhibitions, competitions and similar events, both in the Russian Federation and abroad, is strongly supported.

A great help in attracting qualified personnel would be to incorporate Zelenodolsk PKB into the corporate mortgage program of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, which implies assisting USC workers in improving housing conditions through mortgage lending.

A question on innovation at USC. How do you assess the prospects for the implementation of the Sudometrics project, which implies assembling ships and vessels into the so-called “net size”, without allowances? If so, have there been any qualitative changes in the design process?

The introduction of ship hull and ship hull assembly into a “clean size” will significantly reduce the labor intensity of hull manufacturing by minimizing fitting work. If we take into account that the laboriousness of the hull manufacturing in the total labor input of building a vessel is 30-50%, and the work on fitting parts, sections, blocks among themselves is no less than 5% of the labor intensity of the hull manufacturing, then the savings are evident.


Measurements when assembling the hull

But for the introduction of the technology of assembly of ship hulls in "pure size", a number of conditions are necessary. First, design organizations and construction factories must work in the same or compatible 3D simulation programs so that when the 3D model is transferred, the "mathematics" is not lost. Secondly, builders should be equipped with cutting lines with high precision cutting of parts, with the latest mechanized methods for assembling sections, and introducing a free-fit assembly technology onto them. Thirdly, a high production culture is required.

In the design process, when creating an 3D model, "allowances" can be reflected (assigned) in attributes and used by the construction plant.

At the level of the Government of Russia, the question has been raised about the gradual alignment of the balance of the shipbuilding industry between the state defense order and civilian products. What is the ratio of military, civilian and export projects of the PKB today?

As of 01.01.2017, work on the state defense order in the total amount of work is 93%, work on civilian products is 7%.

Let's talk about military-technical cooperation. Vietnam received the Gepard-3.9 rocket ships, designed by the Zelenodolsk PKB, the ships have been operated by the operator for more than 5 years. What feedback did you get from the customer? Was the second pair of ships upgraded according to the results of the operation of the first "Cheetahs"?

Feedback on the operation is positive, the ships showed good seaworthiness and reliability, overcame the strongest 9-ball storm during service (wave height more than 11 meters). Therefore, a second pair of ships, which has a slightly different GEM structure, was ordered as part of the state credit.


Rocket ships of the project "Cheetah-3.9"

Now the second pair of ships "Cheetah-3.9" received a full-fledged stationary anti-submarine weapons. The anti-submarine helicopter and its ammunition, as well as on the first pair, also remained on the ships.

In its annual report for 2015, your neighbors Zelenodolsk Plant named after Gorky - demonstrated the appearance of the ocean patrol ship based on the "Cheetah 5.1". Could you tell us about the technical characteristics of the ships in more detail and lift the curtain of secrecy, with which state exactly are you negotiating about its possible delivery?

Interest in the Cheetah-5.1 ocean patrol ship was shown by one of the Asian states, until the conclusion of a contract, we shouldn’t talk about it yet, since information about the ongoing negotiations with foreign countries on planned deliveries of weapons and military equipment is not subject to disclosure.


Ocean patrol ship based on the frigate "Cheetah 5.1"

The ship, in accordance with the advertising passport, will have a diesel power plant, providing a full speed of at least 23 units with a total displacement of about 2000 tons. A foreign-made search-and-rescue helicopter will be permanently based on the ship, and a modest one is installed at the request of the foreign customer - an artillery installation of 30mm.

Earlier, Zelenodolsk PKB represented the ship Rossiyanin 3D-seismic exploration. What is the status of this project now?

Over the past 10 years, the status of the 3D seismic survey vessel “Rossiyanin” has not changed: it is still being proposed, but not claimed by potential customers due to lack of funding.

What are the objectives of the Zelenodolsk PKB on 2017 year? What will be included in your exposition at the International Navy Salon?

The key tasks for the bureau are the implementation of the state defense order, the development of the export potential created in the bureau of naval equipment, the creation of scientific and technical reserves in the field of promising platforms of various architectures, the further development of civil shipbuilding, import substitution work in cooperation with counterparties.


IRA "Green Dol"

At the International Naval Show of the IMDS-2017, our company will present ships based on the universal platform Cheetah: the frigate Cheetah-3.9 with PLO and the ocean patrol ship Gepard-5.1.

We will also show the multipurpose ship of the 21635 "Sarsar" project and promotional materials relating to other types of naval equipment created in the bureau. In addition, in the water area adjacent to the exhibition complex is planned to demonstrate a small rocket ship project 21631 "Green Dol".

Zelenodolsk PKB will take part in the IMDS-2017 at a single stand of design organizations and shipyards belonging to the United Shipbuilding Corporation.
23 comments
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  1. +5
    1 June 2017 15: 48
    The Rusich project is really quite interesting ... and surely promising
    The small frigate Rusich-1 project remained out of the focus of the Navy command. At the same time, the innovative character of this project remained unsurpassed. Its operational capabilities are many times greater than the potential of traditional single-hulled ships with the same weapons, primarily due to the almost unlimited conditions for the use of weapons in the sea.

    And in this connection it’s really not clear here ..
    Despite these and other qualitative advantages of the proposed modifications of the ships with outriggers, The Navy does nothing to implement them, citing limited funding.

    But at the same time ...
    At the same time, it has been proven that they are more economical both in construction and in operation

    And against the backdrop of all this, in a completely different light, statements by the Ministry of Defense about a lack of money and a masterpiece in terms of idiocy of Ayfonchik-Money are not beginning to be seen, but you hold on.
    1. +5
      1 June 2017 16: 24
      Quote: NEXUS
      And in this connection it’s really not clear here ..

      What is incomprehensible, the seller praises his goods, he would have said that Rusich is complete. What arguments the MO has there is really unclear, maybe Rusich has its own stocks, maybe it’s cheaper only on paper, maybe of what. In the concept of Rusich, I don’t see anything particularly unique in the world, although there are similar patterns, but there is no particular fanaticism. Are other "big" maritime countries so stupid? request
      1. +2
        1 June 2017 17: 35
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Quote: NEXUS
        And in this connection it’s really not clear here ..

        What is incomprehensible, the seller praises his goods, he would have said that Rusich is complete. What arguments the MO has there is really unclear, maybe Rusich has its own stocks, maybe it’s cheaper only on paper, maybe of what. In the concept of Rusich, I don’t see anything particularly unique in the world, although there are similar patterns, but there is no particular fanaticism. Are other "big" maritime countries so stupid? request

        All this is understandable, if only to know at least a little, a real perspective .... well, maybe this is very secret ... in the USSR they wouldn’t even know this ..., they hope they want ...., (here here the cat walked around, but for now they don’t go ... too, perspective ... :)))))) wink
        1. 0
          2 June 2017 04: 25
          but there isn’t this “prospect”, if God forbid, it will turn over on the water, then the shish is back, and the pitching, in comparison with single-hull ships, is lower on some waves, but on other waves there is a catamaran built before the Second World War (like in the Black Sea Fleet ) so on it all these shoals and found ...
      2. +2
        1 June 2017 19: 21
        Quote: Vladimirets
        In the concept of Rusich, I don’t see anything particularly unique in the world, although there are similar patterns, but there is no particular fanaticism. Are other "big" maritime countries so stupid? request

        The "big" countries are not stupid, but they are also conducting the same developments and they already have products not only in metal, but also in the service, or do you have deep confidence that all of this is ours ....?

        http://maxpark.com/community/14/content/1962374
        1. +2
          1 June 2017 19: 53
          Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
          you have deep confidence, all that ours is r ....

          Weren't you the prototype of the main characters in Nosov’s story “Fantazers”? request
          Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
          they already have products not only in metal, but also in the service

          Have you read my comment at all?
          Quote: Vladimirets
          although there are similar patterns, but there is no particular fanaticism.

          Or in the west has the entire fleet switched to unusually convenient, technologically advanced and, most importantly, “cheap” trimarans? Before you argue, you have to think, otherwise you argue with yourself.
          1. 0
            1 June 2017 20: 09
            [quote = Vladimir] [quote = DOCTOR ZLO] you have deep confidence that everything that is ours is g .... [/ quote]
            Weren't you the prototype of the main characters in Nosov’s story “Fantazers”? request
            Flood and did not say anything specific.
            [quote] Have you read my comment at all? [/ quote]
            I read about fanaticism, the “empirialists" do not have the same thing, but in the use of such ships they come first ...
            [quote] Or in the west did the entire fleet switch to unusually convenient, technologically advanced and, most importantly, "cheap" trimarans? [/ quote]
            Neither the author of the article, nor I wrote a word about it. Flood and did not say anything specific.
            [quote] Before arguing, you have to think, otherwise you argue with yourself. [/ quote]
            Well, I understand, everyone who argues with you does not think or argue with themselves ....
            R&D would not be carried out abroad (they know how to count money there) if we had not seen the benefits of such projects, otherwise we would still be sailing in boats ...
            1. +2
              1 June 2017 20: 20
              Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
              Flood and did not say anything specific.

              You flood, accusing me of some kind of dope.
              Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
              the "empirialists" do not have it, but in the use of such ships they are in the first place

              Of course on the first, but having built such ships in single copies, they are in no hurry to build large series, why?
              Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
              Or in the west has the entire fleet switched to unusually convenient, technologically advanced and most importantly "cheap" trimarans?

              Neither the author of the article, nor I wrote a word about it. Flood and did not say anything specific.

              Again stupid accusations. You may not have written, but the author is for sure, here's an article from you, since you yourself have mastered only the title: "At the same time, it has been proven that they are more economical both in construction and in operation. The construction of more wasteful traditional single-hull ships, which are operational defective, continues."
              Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
              Well, I understand, everyone who argues with you does not think or argue with themselves

              Yes you, my friend, a troll.
              1. 0
                1 June 2017 20: 45
                Vladimirets

                Of course on the first, but having built such ships in single copies, they are in no hurry to build large series, why?

                These ships have their own niche, which one, the “empirialists" want to establish the maximum and minimum capabilities and where they can be applied, as well as the expediency of their construction in general ...
                Amphibious aircraft have found their application, but this does not mean that they are not needed, because cannot replace the B-52 ...
                but the author is sure, here’s for you from the article, since you just mastered the headline yourself: "At the same time, it was proved that they are more economical both in construction and in operation. The construction of more wasteful traditional single-hull ships, which are operational flawed, continues."

                The author most likely carries nonsense (although you and I are not experts in this field), but he did not say a word that such ships in the West supplanted traditional ones ....
                those. what you wrote:
                Or in the west has the entire fleet switched to unusually convenient, technologically advanced and most importantly "cheap" trimarans?

                Woot what sad
                1. +2
                  1 June 2017 21: 00
                  Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
                  These ships have their own niche, which one, the “empirialists" want to establish the maximum and minimum capabilities and where they can be applied, as well as the expediency of their construction in general

                  They built a ship, and then find out why it is needed? belay You yourself wrote
                  Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
                  R&D would not be carried out abroad (they can count money there) if they had not seen the benefits of such projects

                  What kind of R&D as a result of which the ship was built is unclear why and how then they "know how to count money"? request
                  Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
                  Amphibious aircraft have found their application, but this does not mean that they are not needed, because cannot replace the B-52

                  Do not exaggerate, in the article, the director of the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau directly says that this trimaran is able to replace "flawed" traditional single-hull ships, and not look for some specialized niches.
                  Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
                  The author most likely carries nonsense (although you and I are not experts in this field)

                  It’s not the author who carries the nonsense, but a seemingly competent person - the director of the bureau, but one that is obvious even to a simple weapon lover. It remains, however, a chance that the journalist voiced his words in his own way. what
                  Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
                  but he did not say a word that similar ships in the West supplanted traditional

                  Yes, I wrote this, but in the sense that very developed maritime powers build such ships in single copies and do not replace them with traditional single-hull ones. Did Zelenodolsk Design Bureau really think that they have a bunch of advantages? I don’t think so. Below, by the way, a colleague substantiated why our MO is so thrown off from wonderful ships.
                  1. 0
                    1 June 2017 21: 26
                    Vladimirets Below, by the way, a colleague substantiated why our MO is so thrown off from wonderful ships.

                    Okay, they persuaded me, but I hope that while developing our trimaran, in parallel, they could make other discoveries and developments that can be applied in shipbuilding ...
                    And in my link, it is clearly indicated why the “empirialists” carried out R&D and what they achieved ...
                    1. +1
                      1 June 2017 21: 43
                      Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
                      Okay persuaded

                      Well, thanks, relieved.
                      Quote: DOCTOR ZLO
                      I hope that while developing trimaran, we could simultaneously make other discoveries and developments that can be applied in shipbuilding

                      So do I.
    2. +4
      1 June 2017 18: 02
      Honestly, after saying that the Rusich trimaran, it turns out, is cheaper to manufacture and operate than the classic classmates, I got sick of reading further. The need for a rigid "bundle" of three hulls leads to the fact that the hull of the trimaran is obviously heavier than the hull of a single-hull ship of equal displacement. Those. ceteris paribus, the trimaran will be less capacious than the single-hull. Where does the lower cost come from then? But the deck will be more spacious, and the pitching is weaker, yes. The stability of the trimaran is higher, but IMHO until one of the hulls was damaged ... this is a warship, everything happens to him. And how is there to fight for survivability, in three buildings? To service such a frigate, a huge dock is required (Rusich has a width of 35 m, more than a missile cruiser, even Peter the Great and then 28,5 meters) ...
      In general, I am our MO, which does not want to get involved with this, I understand perfectly
      1. 0
        2 June 2017 11: 08
        The article wrote one of the reasons why the Moscow Region does not order trimarans - this is an increased fuel consumption due to the larger wetted surface.

        Few people notice that our design bureaus and educational institutions are switching to the British bookmarked design system.
        And all the designs of our design bureaus will be in full view of the MI-6.
      2. 0
        2 June 2017 18: 09
        I read with M. Klimov in the article “Double Superiority Scheme” that the ATS is effective in comparison with a single-hull ship with a displacement of up to 1500 tons, the weight of the bridges begins to affect higher.
        He noted an advantage in stability compared to a single-hull due to the open layout.
        Klimov on Otvag2004 motivated the advantage of the ATS by the fact that the OVR corvette should be a relatively massive ship up to 1500 military units, and you can’t put the PLUR, hardened and towed GAS into the single-hull corvette, plus the helicopter base (in our case, Ka-27PL), AU, SAM .
        In one of the articles, mooring schemes at the pier and placing the ATS in a dry dock (with specific examples) were given, it seems to be standing obliquely, and not directly.
        1. 0
          3 June 2017 02: 51
          Quote: strannik1985
          that the ATS is effective in comparison with a single-hull ship with a displacement of up to 1500 tons, the weight of the bridges begins to affect higher.

          disagree, ATS is most effective in a displacement of 5000 tons, for example, you can make a frigate with a detection range like that of a cruiser ...
          1. 0
            3 June 2017 17: 58
            In terms of radar antenna post will be placed higher than on a single-hull ship? Why?
            1. 0
              3 June 2017 20: 37
              higher transverse stability, therefore, the maximum permissible height of the main mast increases, therefore the location of the radar is higher, therefore the enemy has a greater detection range. Actually, we get the same cruiser only in the frigate format.
  2. 0
    1 June 2017 15: 52
    and for this reason we are currently riveting MRKs instead of normal frigates ....... yeah optimization
    1. 0
      2 June 2017 11: 12
      Riveting boats because The main expenses of shipbuilders go to pay specialists from the UK to support the Aveva design system.
  3. +5
    1 June 2017 16: 18
    The original thing is this Rusich-1.
  4. 0
    1 June 2017 19: 05
    Again plans ... plans ... plans ...
    Like a poet ...
    "Huge plans" ...
    Clearly, plans are needed ...
    But, between the lines ... I read ...
    "... import substitution of power plants ..."
    And how ... with him?
    Read ... read ..
    About the creation of gas turbine engines (GTE) M70FRU development Rybinsk JSC "NPO" Saturn ".
    But, it will be ... in 2020 ... Otherwise ... no way?
  5. +4
    1 June 2017 23: 45
    Equinoxe 7 Revisited Something.