Military Review

With bayonet or bayonet

86
In close combat, the Russian soldier was especially dangerous, and the battles of the First World War demonstrated this in full measure.


In the year 1907 appeared (and in 1916-m was reissued) instruction called "Training bayonet combat." In accordance with this document, the skill consisted in the ability to hit his opponent with a bayonet before he struck; in strikes that take the enemy down; in the ability to protect themselves. The compilers paid close attention to technical aspects - fighting stance, strikes, turns and other movements. The emphasis was on strength and accuracy. Moreover, the "Instruction for infantry action in battle" defined: "Movement for striking a bayonet is called an attack." It was required to make it rapidly from a distance of about 50 steps and carry out the rifle chain, if possible reinforced by the reserve. That is, an attack in its immediate meaning is a throw for delivering a bayonet strike to the enemy in melee combat.

Extreme bitterness

Powerful and effective bayonet strike - the "calling card" of the Russian infantry. He practiced in any combat conditions until the end of Russia's participation in world war and decided the fate of many battles.

Thus, during the Galician battle 26 August 1914, the Moscow Life Guards regiment, breaking through the enemy front at Tarnavka with a bayonet, captured most of the artillery of the Silesian Landner Corps (42 guns) and several dozen machine guns. In a fierce battle, the German calculations stood to death and were simply jabbed. The breakthrough of the Austro-German front at Tarnavka had strategic consequences.

The notes of war correspondents and front-line soldiers are full of memories of fierce bayonet battles on the Eastern Front - in the First August Operation in September 1914, under the Bérolins during the Lodz Battle in November of the same year, or on the Bug in July 1915. The German witness conveyed his impressions in this way: “The night battle for height with the 181 mark at Lutomiersk (south of Lodzi) proceeded very dramatically. There were shouts: “Russians are coming!” Began a strong counterattack of the enemy. Substantial forces were attacking ... supported by artillery fire from both flanks. The 94 regiment prepared to withstand the blow and met the attacker with strong fire. This did not stop the Russians. With a fierce bayonet attack ... they attacked the weak German front, breaking through it in several places. ”

Grenades for battle!

In the year 1916 appeared "Instructions for throwing hand bombs and grenades." The document examined in detail the types of this kind of ammunition used by the Russian army, and regulated in detail the processes of preparation for combat and use.

With bayonet or bayonetThe instruction noted that the grenade was throwing at 50 – 60 steps. The range of action on live targets in open areas is about 5 steps, but the striking force is also maintained at a distance of 30 steps from the explosion site. Since as a result of throwing a grenade into the enemy trench, the earth and stones are flying in different directions, it was recommended to use shelters, folds of terrain.

Russian troops, primarily infantry, effectively used grenades, especially in the second half of the war. Russian grenade throwers excelled during the battles of Baranavichy during the Brusilov breakthrough, in other battles.

A special place was occupied by the battle with grenades in the tactics of assault and attack units. Thus, the “death” battalion of the 38 Infantry Division in the 11 battle of July 1917 of the year was a success thanks to the use of hand grenades against the enemy’s trenches. Moreover, the Russian division inflicted heavy losses on two Germans at once, capturing 38 prisoners.

The bayonet attack and the use of grenades are the elements of close combat, characterized by extreme bitterness. For example, 29 on August 1914, during the Galician battle, four commanders (2, 3, 4 and 12) of the 59-th Lublin infantry regiment were wounded at the same time, killed and wounded before 300 soldiers.

An eyewitness saw the melee field in 1915 year: “Half-buried trenches testify to the horrors of bayonet fighting and the destructive effects of hand grenades. They are filled to the brim with fallen fighters, Russians and Germans. Their bodies are terribly mutilated. Broken trees with bare branches protruding into the sky roll over the whole field. A sharp smell of corpse fills the air. These are the traces of the battle, which were inclined now and then to the other side on the approaches to the bridge south of Ostrolenka. ”

A German source reflected the specifics of the fighting in the Carpathians: “On the one hand, Zvinin’s breathless fighters with extreme tension unsuccessfully fight for their height: they fight chest and chest, acting cold weapons».

The ability to act in close combat was a key factor in the victories of the Russian soldier in many episodes of world war.
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/35221
86 comments
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  1. cost
    cost 18 February 2017 04: 53
    +26
    There were masters.
    during the battles near Lviv in 1914, the future Marshal of the USSR A.I. Eremenko in a hand-to-hand fight with a bayonet exterminated 11 enemy soldiers

    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 18 February 2017 05: 37
      +21
      "the enemy knew that day quite a bit what it means, the Russian battle is a remote battle, our hand-to-hand combat ..." M. Yu. Lermontov (s)
    2. Finches
      Finches 18 February 2017 07: 42
      +24
      I recalled the anecdote with a touch of black humor:
      "-Doctor! Doctor, how is he?" He asks with hope his relatives from a doctor leaving the operating room!
      - The bullet is a fool, so the vital organs are not affected ...
      - Thank God!
      - ... But the bayonet - well done, yes, the bayonet - well done ... "
      laughing

      And after:"A bullet - a fool, a bayonet - well done, and the core - immediately p ....!" - Suvorov liked to say, but did not always finish the phrase to the end. " laughing
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 19 February 2017 10: 26
      +3
      Quote: Rich
      There were masters.
      during the battles near Lviv in 1914, the future Marshal of the USSR A.I. Eremenko in a hand-to-hand fight with a bayonet exterminated 11 enemy soldiers

      Monument "bayonet attack" in the city of Gusev
  2. Same lech
    Same lech 18 February 2017 05: 46
    +10
    A powerful and effective bayonet strike is the “visiting card” of the Russian infantry.

    In a collision with an experienced enemy, this does not always go away ... in the era of machine guns and rapid-firing artillery, you can’t even reach the enemy.

    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 18 February 2017 08: 54
      +15
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      colliding with an experienced enemy, this does not always go away ... in the era of machine guns and rapid-firing artillery, you can’t even reach the enemy.


      In this era, the bayonet is only part of the battle, which is preceded by the suppression of enemy firing points. .
      Reading the memoirs of the Second World War, you learn that this was, unfortunately, not always .....
    2. Gopnik
      Gopnik 18 February 2017 13: 56
      +8
      You may not run, yes. A photo of the time of the Second World War, it’s very difficult to “run away” with it - mg-34, mortars ...
  3. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 18 February 2017 06: 12
    +2
    With a bayonet on machine guns? Oh well.
  4. Cat
    Cat 18 February 2017 06: 47
    +20
    Since the time of Peter I, a Russian soldier has shown himself in hand-to-hand combat! The great Suvorov used to say "a fool's bullet - a bayonet done"! Throughout the past century, despite the saturation of the army with automatic weapons, bayonet fighting has taken place and significance. The last time I heard about its use was in 2001 during an anti-terrorist operation in Chechnya. When our three guys in hand-to-hand bombarded five "spirits" in a barn, four of whom were given to one with a bayonet attached to the AK-74. The effect of a long hand in hand-to-hand combat is a success factor that is still too early to write off the battle tactics.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 18 February 2017 07: 10
      +4
      I remember there were conversations that there was a problem "beyond the river", the bayonet-knife could not break through the Babai quilted robe. The point is, nevertheless, in the dressing gown or some changes were made, if not in the knife itself, so in the tactics of application. For example, they began to teach soldiers to beat not in the corps, but in the neck?
      1. Cat
        Cat 18 February 2017 07: 48
        +15
        With the "first Chechen" there was a problem of using a "bayonet battle" because of bulletproof vests. There were too many of them on both sides. After the looting of the police arsenals in Grozny, a lot of 1 class armor was used in everyday life. But the realization came to 1996 that they did not hold a bullet and they began to throw them away. The rest of their equipment and ours was one-ethical - lump, armor 3-4 class. To be honest, only helmets were removed from us and them, although our helmets were neither loved nor appreciated. But I know a lot of tales 1995 - 2005 about how an old army helmet saved from a crazy fragment.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 18 February 2017 08: 01
          +6
          Interesting addition, thanks. It turns out that the women, the dressing gown, is a body armor 1 protection class? laughing
        2. Stas57
          Stas57 18 February 2017 09: 50
          +8
          But I know a lot of tales 1995 - 2005 about how an old army helmet saved from a crazy fragment.

          is it a bike already?
          and then what is the army helmet for? sit on her?

          Steel helmet SSH-68
          Accepted for supply in 1968 to replace the helmet SSH-60.
          Development since 1964. The developer is the Krasny Oktyabr plant (Volgograd) and the Central Scientific Research Institute of Automation (Leningrad).
          Production from 1973 to 1992

          Provides protection against fragments of grenades and mines, punches with sticks, stones and their fragments, metal bars.

          Splinter resistance - 1 g., 245 m / s, 50%.
          Non-penetration range: 50% - 650-700 m., 100% - 860-910 m.
          Sheath material - steel 38XSZNMFA (K-1).
          Protection Area - 10,5 sq. dm.
          Weight - 1,1-1,3 kg.
          Continuous wearing time - 8 hours
          The US-68 M is designed for internal troops;
          US-68 N is used by the armed forces of the Russian Federation.
          Both options have modern Tuley. Despite the fact that these helmets weigh about two kilograms, they meet the first class of resistance because they are able to withstand direct bullet hits from a Makarov pistol and fragments flying at a speed of 400 m / s, the mass of which does not exceed one gram.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 18 February 2017 10: 33
            +5
            Quote: Stas57
            and then what is the army helmet for?

            laughing In addition to direct use, you can dig a helmet with a helmet, you can also cook a soup soup in a helmet!
        3. Monster_Fat
          Monster_Fat 18 February 2017 09: 50
          +4
          Why "tales" ... the helmet really saved from fragments of hand grenades and RPG grenades (which have a small mass and kinetic energy) as well as from stone chips crumbling during explosions of RPG grenades,
      2. Michael_Zverev
        Michael_Zverev 20 February 2017 01: 06
        +3
        I remember there were conversations that there was a problem "beyond the river", a bayonet-knife could not break through the Babai quilted robe. The point is, nevertheless, in the dressing gown or some changes were made, if not in the knife itself, so in the tactics of application.

        Well, the quilted robe on cotton wool is a pretty solid thing, it was badly punched by the bad Cossack peaks of soft iron, and the three-bayonet bayonets broke during the Andijan uprising of 1898.
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 18 February 2017 07: 25
    +15
    General Dragomirov wrote: "the bullet and bayonet are not mutually exclusive, but complement each other; the first paves the way for the second, and losing sight of one or the other is equally irrational, and sooner or later, it will inevitably lead to disasters."
    1. igordok
      igordok 18 February 2017 08: 52
      +9
      At the time of the existence of the cavalry, due to fear that the soldier would not have time to join a bayonet to repel a quick attack of the cavalry, it was recommended, and then established by the charter, to engage in a battle with a constantly bayoneted bayonet. Accordingly, the Mosin rifle was shot with a bayonet. By the time of WWII, an attack by cavalry was unlikely, so the constantly attached bayonet was atavism, but alas.

  6. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 18 February 2017 07: 27
    +3
    It would be better for the moderator not to skip articles with one source. Otherwise, the site loses its appeal, which is earned by the thoughtful articles of other authors.
    1. OAV09081974
      OAV09081974 18 February 2017 09: 03
      +36
      Dear (I do not know how to magnify, for which I apologize). I want to clarify.
      I wrote this article for a respectable newspaper, the Military-Industrial Courier (the newspaper of the military-industrial complex and at the same time the website) using really SOURCES - from the Manual Training for bayonet combat to the Military Action Log of the 38 Infantry Division's death battalion. What say quotes in the text. After all, it is with SOURCES that the authors of other articles should work thoughtful as you say.
      So My article published in the MIC - VO website copied and posted for your review. Therefore, it is indicated that the source of information is that, that is, the newspaper MIC. And when preparing the article, the author used various sources.
      Moderators only seek to make the VO website as interesting as possible by selecting diverse materials. As your humble servant also wants to be interesting to the widest range of readers.
      1. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 18 February 2017 10: 44
        +5
        I didn’t want to hurt you somehow, but the volume of the article is small and does not sufficiently cover the topic. It could be supplemented, for example, with the types of bayonets of various warring parties, pictures or videos of bayonet attacks. Explain that in the trench with an attached bayonet it was not possible to act effectively, etc. I suppose the article would only benefit from this.
        However, you yourself can see how you were supplemented in the comments.
        1. OAV09081974
          OAV09081974 18 February 2017 11: 03
          +24
          No, not touched - just explained.
          This is not me who added in the comments - there is a discussion, interesting for members of the forum.
          And what to consider in the article - let me judge the editorial office of the newspaper, on the order of which it is executed (it has its own requirements for the volume and content of articles) and of course - the author.
          However, all the nuances that interest you are a great topic for the mass of the following articles.
          Moreover, as you quite rightly pointed out, there are so many thoughtful authors on IN)
      2. Gopnik
        Gopnik 18 February 2017 13: 59
        +8
        Thank you for the article and in general for your research.
        1. OAV09081974
          OAV09081974 18 February 2017 14: 59
          +20
          Thank you so much for appreciation.
          Best regards
          Oleynikov A.
  7. bionik
    bionik 18 February 2017 09: 09
    +12
    Training Leningrad militia bayonet attack techniques.
  8. bionik
    bionik 18 February 2017 09: 10
    +11
    Training soldiers of the Red Army in hand-to-hand combat shortly before the start of the war.
  9. Stas57
    Stas57 18 February 2017 09: 45
    +1
    A powerful and effective bayonet strike is the “visiting card” of the Russian infantry.

    actually in world practice this business card was with Britons, but since Russia is the birthplace of elephants ...
    1. Gopnik
      Gopnik 18 February 2017 14: 05
      +15
      “At the Britons” it is because now the world is Anglo-Saxon, and at the Britons, if you believe their historians and popular science films, that's all. And so the Brits were distinguished by well-aimed fire, and they began official training in bayonet fighting after the Napoleonic, and in this they probably got ahead of the Russians, although during the Crimean War they did not accept bayonet fighting near Alma, and the Russians overthrew them by Sevastopol during the assaults. If I am not mistaken, even in the era of the smooth-bore, the bayonets adjoined only immediately before the bayonet.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 19 February 2017 14: 01
        0
        “At the Britons” it is because now the world is Anglo-Saxon, and at the Britons, according to their historians and popular science films, that's all.

        I’m sorry, but any person who has read at least a little bit about any serious literature knows about it (and literature can be, for example, French, German, where they won’t sing songs to Britons) Well, if you watch Discovery, it’s certainly ...

        Regarding the Crimean one, ours didn’t agree with the shaving with bayonets there, however, it is known for certain that the Turks were driven with a bayonet, but it’s nobody side by side with shaving.
        1. Gopnik
          Gopnik 19 February 2017 17: 27
          +1
          Well, in what battle did the Britons knock over with a bayonet strike? In Crimea, ours converged with the British near Alma (Vladimir Regiment) and during the reflection of the assaults of Sevastopol (3rd redoubt, which the British never took)
        2. sivuch
          sivuch 21 February 2017 16: 22
          +1
          So I also read, in particular Napoleonic - and I didn’t see about bayonet attacks. Here's about the thin red line and aimed shooting - this is as many
  10. Medium
    Medium 18 February 2017 10: 26
    +11
    Our hand-to-hand combat instructor in training liked this maxim:
    "To engage in hand-to-hand combat, a fighter must:
    Lose the machine, bayonet-knife, belt, shoulder blade, helmet on the battlefield.
    Find a flat area on which not a single stone or stick is lying.
    Find on it the same ...
    And only after that, to join with him in melee.
    1. Stas57
      Stas57 18 February 2017 11: 25
      +5
      Our hand-to-hand combat instructor in training liked this maxim:
      "To engage in hand-to-hand combat, a fighter must:

      it is you either poorly remembered or he himself did not understand what rushing.
      Or maybe he is about martial arts? then yes.
      Hand-to-hand fight
      close combat with the active use of edged weapons and point-blank shooting (as a form of military operations, in a broader sense);

      Who in this photo has lost what?

      1. Medium
        Medium 18 February 2017 11: 43
        +6
        How's your sense of humor?
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 18 February 2017 11: 46
          0
          stupid army jokes should cause me a piggy delight?
          1. Medium
            Medium 18 February 2017 12: 13
            +3
            I have no more questions.
      2. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 18 February 2017 20: 08
        0
        Your opponent just used a steady meme wandering around the net. No, instructors in the army also come with a visible lack of a brain (otherwise, such an amazing stupidity would not be heard by anyone and they wouldn’t even bother to head), but they, as a rule, speak shorter. No need to respond to this nonsense. This, in fact, is the intellectual signature of the author of the post. Well, he has so much mind. Compassion for the poor man, and that is quite enough.
  11. andrewkor
    andrewkor 18 February 2017 10: 58
    +1
    But the special forces also have a trench tool !!
  12. avva2012
    avva2012 18 February 2017 11: 04
    +2
    I read the memoirs of a front-line soldier, “I remember,” so he said that they advised him to go to hand-to-hand combat with a sapper shovel, “they say if the attack with a bayonet was unsuccessful, then the kapets to you, because the body remains open from the side”. According to him, he repeatedly verified this statement in practice. He assures that many other colleagues, did the same as the first time shocked the Fritz (1942 year). I do not question the words of the front-line soldier, but how much has this technique been used in the Red Army?
    1. Stas57
      Stas57 18 February 2017 11: 16
      +2
      I read the memoirs of a front-line soldier, “I remember,” so he said that they advised him to go to hand-to-hand combat with a sapper shovel, “they say if the attack with a bayonet was unsuccessful, then the kapets are for you, because the body remains open from the side”
      I wonder how it is, the length of the three-ruler with a bayonet did not allow approaching a person point-blank, probably the fighter was from the late recruited, and did not own a bayonet battle
    2. Hedgehog
      Hedgehog 18 February 2017 16: 02
      +2
      I read the same thing — ours were surprised — but not for long — the Germans also fought with shoulder blades. And the bayonet on the rifle interfered — the gun was too long — you couldn’t turn around in the trenches. Better shovel or butt. Well, in short, I think that it’s not about the bayonet so much about general hand-to-hand combat
      1. Kenneth
        Kenneth 18 February 2017 17: 18
        +1
        And rifles were shot with a bayonet. Therefore, when they removed the bayonet, they smeared it. And they shot because it is not needed in FIG. Especially faceted.
  13. captain
    captain 18 February 2017 11: 57
    +12
    Quote: Kotischa
    With the "first Chechen" there was a problem of using a "bayonet battle" because of bulletproof vests. There were too many of them on both sides. After the looting of the police arsenals in Grozny, a lot of 1 class armor was used in everyday life. But the realization came to 1996 that they did not hold a bullet and they began to throw them away. The rest of their equipment and ours was one-ethical - lump, armor 3-4 class. To be honest, only helmets were removed from us and them, although our helmets were neither loved nor appreciated. But I know a lot of tales 1995 - 2005 about how an old army helmet saved from a crazy fragment.

    In Afghanistan, six bulletproof vests were brought to our intelligence battalion. Came to us in the DDR. The battalion commander gave the command to issue sentinels. They decided on that. They had to ambush at night, and I went to bed in a capter tent (1981g). I woke up from shots and non-literary expressions of our battalion commander, not inferior in volume to a loud-speaking installation. I dressed myself and ran for the guards, from where shots were fired ... I look at ZKV Shalaev standing there and holding a bulletproof vest with holes in her hands. He speaks to me so calmly; scouts will not wear bulletproof vest. And he said that they took a duffel bag, stuffed it with rags, put a bulletproof vest on it and shot from AKM from 100 meters. Penetrated right through. We didn’t wear helmets, it was hard in the mountains and couldn’t save us from the shots from the Boer. And I liked the article, put a plus.
    1. Razvedka_Boem
      Razvedka_Boem 18 February 2017 12: 24
      +6
      Other bulletproof vests were developed, already in 1983 appeared a bulletproof vest 6B3 / 6B3TM with titanium plates of 6.5 mm, circular protection in class 3, weighing more than 12 kg. And in 1985 appeared 6B4 (Zh-85K), protection in class 4, weighing up to 15 kg.
      In the highlands, wearing body armor, not counting the BC and so forth, was an overwhelming load and usually they were not used.
      “Meanwhile, it is proved that wearing body armor weighing more than 4,5 kg leads to pronounced violations of heat transfer, energy consumption increases by more than 10%, and combat efficiency decreases by 30%. With an increase in the weight of the body armor, all of the above characteristics are proportionally doubled. In practice, as a result of the experiment, this meant that when making a march for 5 km with overcoming a special obstacle course (simulating to some extent a battle for a company strong point), the percentage of retired military personnel in body armor weighing 4,5 kg was 17%, 8 kg - 50%, more than 10 kg - 85%. It is known that for a successful combat mission the weight of the entire military equipment should not exceed 1/3 of the body weight. On the other hand, the use of personal protective equipment has reduced the number of fatal injuries in armed conflicts in the North Caucasus by more than 20%. An impressive figure, given that it’s the life of people. "
      http://www.modernarmy.ru/article/96
    2. Stas57
      Stas57 18 February 2017 13: 14
      +4
      I look there stands ZKV Shalaev and holds in his hands a bulletproof vest with holes. He speaks to me so calmly; scouts will not wear bulletproof vest. And he said that they took a duffel bag, stuffed it with rags, put a bulletproof vest on it and shot from AKM from 100 meters. Penetrated right through.

      yes, what a genius, with 100 m from AKM .... the truth is that this class 6Б2 (Ж-81) protected against light, pistol bullets and fragments (100% of fragments and 42% bullets were kept with body armor) well, who cares. .
      ps. he probably wound the harness on the butt?
      We didn’t wear helmets, it’s hard in the mountains and didn’t save us from the shots from the “Boer”
      .
      it was really shitty with you to see the training ...
      SSH-60, SSH-68 SSH-40 could not be spawned from either the trilinear nor from Lee Enfield - he is BUR,
      The SSh-68N helmet protects a person’s head from bullets of a Makarov pistol and revolver of the Nagan system (1 protection class according to GOST Р50744-95), as well as fragments of 1,1 g mass (steel ball 6,3 mm) and speeds up to 400 m / s.
      By the way, it was the fragments that were the main striking factor of the infantry, and they were invented to save them.
      even STSh-81 did not save from a bullet of a rifle caliber fired from a rifle or an automatic rifle (machine gun) (The helmet protected the person’s head over the entire area, except for the face area, in the second protection class, that is, from bullets fired from PM, APS, TT, PSM pistols, as well as from practically any fragments.)
    3. Glory1974
      Glory1974 18 February 2017 19: 50
      +2
      He speaks to me so calmly; scouts will not wear bulletproof vest.


      In Chechnya, scouts also don’t wear bulletproof vests. It’s hard in the mountains and forests.

      In addition, modern research has shown that if a bulletproof vest protects against pistol bullets, and in battle there is an opportunity to get a bullet from a more powerful weapon, it is better not to wear it. Because when a bullet hits, the body armor will still be broken, and the wound will be aggravated by parts of the damaged body armor.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 19 February 2017 13: 53
        +1
        Because when a bullet hits, the body armor will still be broken, and the wound will be aggravated by parts of the damaged body armor.

        dadada, and the bullet will ricochet from the back and will walk on the body (s)
        here with a set of such myths we have a set of, in principle, stupid but dangerous wounds that could have been successfully avoided.
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 19 February 2017 15: 43
          0
          dadada, and the bullet will ricochet from the back and will walk on the body


          A bullet with an AK-74 can walk around the body without ricocheting from the back.
          modern studies have shown


          I write about the research of scientists, not about myths
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 19 February 2017 18: 11
            0
            I write about the research of scientists,

            if only British ..
            the fact is that having broken through an obstacle, a bullet will drag everything behind him - uniforms, objects in pockets and BZ the same,
            and now what, in panties to fight?

            but if it breaks, the modern BZ just reduces the chances of penetration by both bullets and, most importantly, by fragments, because fragments are the main striking factor of the infantry.
            This "dragging" is secondary, for example, before being traumatized by the kinetic energy of a bullet not stopped by the BZ
            1. Glory1974
              Glory1974 20 February 2017 20: 01
              0
              the fact is that having broken through an obstacle, a bullet will drag everything behind him - uniforms, objects in pockets and BZ the same,
              and now what, in panties to fight?


              If the bulletproof vest is designed to hold a pistol bullet, and the terrorists have machine guns, it is better not to wear such a bulletproof vest at all. Because when a bullet is pierced, metal or ceramics from a punched body armor gets into the wound and exacerbates the wound. This is a recommendation for law enforcement.
              And in combined combat, please wear any armor, it will suddenly help.
              1. Stas57
                Stas57 20 February 2017 22: 58
                0
                IMF / FSB guys are piece-for them do 4-6 levels
  14. Hedgehog
    Hedgehog 18 February 2017 15: 58
    +3
    Somehow they asked the WWII veteran how the Germans were in hand-to-hand fighting and he answered, the Germans have repeatedly taught us a lesson on how to “hold the bayonet.” He answered another veteran whether he was hand-to-hand with the Germans: God was merciful, because if fight with a German in hand-to-hand fighting, then you are 90 percent dead, they fought to the last. If you had a normal combat unit, then they didn’t care who attacked them. They needed an iron shutter — lowered their eyes to the fritz — you're dead ...
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 18 February 2017 17: 27
      +1
      No wonder. More recently, there was the PMV, where they didn’t fight with anything. And it was the first Germans to use assault groups to break through enemy fortifications. Those, in turn, slaughtered the enemy by all means at hand.
    2. Glory1974
      Glory1974 18 February 2017 19: 53
      0
      and he answered, the Germans have repeatedly taught us a lesson on how to “hold the bayonet.” - When asked another veteran whether he was in hand-to-hand with the Germans, he replied like this: God had mercy, because if you fight with the German in hand-to-hand fighting, then you are 90 percent dead they fought to the last


      The Germans really knew how to fight. But in a bayonet battle, our infantry defeated them, so they avoided hand-to-hand combat.
      1. Hedgehog
        Hedgehog 18 February 2017 21: 37
        0
        And we dodged, and they, depending on who is sitting in the trenches. As they used to say, if the normal German part is sitting in the trenches, they did not care who attacked them. The Russians are also people and nothing human was alien to them
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 18 February 2017 23: 28
          0
          And we dodged-and they-


          Yes, the fact of the matter is that we had such a tactic in tactics — an attack with hostility, but the Fritz did not.
          Therefore, we deliberately went into a bayonet attack, and the Germans only if there is nowhere to go.
          looking who is in the trenches

          And whoever sits in the trenches, so at the beginning of the war, nobody really knew the details. Then even if the intelligence informed which regiment and part number, it didn’t do the weather. By the middle of the war, when they made their image, the distinction went: black death (sailors), or gamekeepers, for example. But this knowledge, again, did not cancel the tactics.
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 19 February 2017 13: 56
            +2
            Yes, the fact of the matter is that we had such a tactic in tactics - an attack with hostility, but the Fritzes didn’t have

            it is a fantasy.
            They had a bayonet battle for sure.
            and if the premise is not true, then the conclusion is incorrect.


            H.Dv.130 / 2a. Ausbildungsvorschrift fuer die Infanterie (AV.I.). Verlag Offene Worte. Berlin 1941.
            .
            1. Glory1974
              Glory1974 19 February 2017 15: 50
              0
              it is a fantasy.
              They had a bayonet battle for sure.
              and if the premise is not true, then the conclusion is incorrect.


              That no one was arguing with a bayonet.
              They also had methods of battle without weapons. But this does not mean that they were going to attack with bare hands.
              Talk about tactics, that is, actions in battle. Ours were going to go with bayonets, but no Fritz.
              1. Stas57
                Stas57 19 February 2017 18: 15
                0
                They also had methods of battle without weapons. But this does not mean that they were going to attack with bare hands. A conversation about tactics, that is, actions in battle. Ours were going to go with bayonets, but no Fritz.

                because they had weapons to defeat infantry over long distances that did not allow rapprochement.
                while MG does not work there will be no bayonet, that's all tactics.
                while DP + SVT are working, there will be no bayonet.

                The bayonet is not from coolness, it is from the inability to suppress by other means. We had a lot of bayonets in the second half of the war? here is the answer.
                1. Glory1974
                  Glory1974 20 February 2017 19: 41
                  +1
                  The bayonet is not from coolness, it is from the inability to suppress by other means. We had a lot of bayonets in the second half of the war? here is the answer.


                  Bayonet - this is from the conditions that develop. In the modern army, they are still studying bayonet fighting, although no one is going to attack with bayonets on machine guns.
      2. Stas57
        Stas57 19 February 2017 13: 54
        0
        . But in a bayonet battle, our infantry defeated them, so they avoided hand-to-hand combat.


        yeah, and the funny thing is that the Japanese thought the same about ours.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 19 February 2017 14: 28
          0
          Quote: Stas57
          yeah, and the funny thing is that the Japanese thought the same about ours.

          Japs and in the 2nd World with samurai swords went on the attack
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 19 February 2017 14: 36
            +2
            Well, in general, the arisaki bayonet itself is still that colder

            1. sivuch
              sivuch 21 February 2017 16: 30
              0
              So, after all, such a blade can not be pulled out of the body, let alone settling, unlike a 3- or 4-sided
        2. Glory1974
          Glory1974 19 February 2017 15: 51
          0
          ha, and the funny thing is that the Japanese thought the same about ours.


          But when ours encountered hand-to-hand combat with the Japs, we realized that it was better not to mess with them. And they didn’t go with bayonets with the Japanese.
          1. Michael_Zverev
            Michael_Zverev 20 February 2017 00: 40
            +4
            During the Russo-Japanese War, not a single case was recorded of the victory of the Japanese over us in frequent bayonet and saber battles, if the forces were at least approximately equal.
            The reason for the victory of Japan in 1905 was not the weakness of the Russian soldier, but the general inefficiency of the administration of the Russian state and the Russian army at that time.
            However, in 1945, the USSR more than paid off with Japan for the defeat, including in hand-to-hand combat.
            The Japanese were considered weak opponents in hand-to-hand fighting even by the Americans, who didn’t particularly tear into the bayonet, trying to dodge them as much as possible, but opposed the Japanese in close combat, on the whole they exceeded the Japanese in this.
            1. Glory1974
              Glory1974 20 February 2017 19: 54
              0
              During the Russo-Japanese War, not a single case was recorded of the victory of the Japanese over us in frequent bayonet and saber battles, if the forces were at least approximately equal.


              That's right. I agree with you on 100%. As a result of the war, the Japanese introduced karate troops into the training program to compensate for this shortcoming. It is to improve hand-to-hand combat.
              The Japanese were considered weak opponents in melee

              But I do not agree with this. According to the memoirs of veterans, the Japanese surpassed the Germans in bayonet battles. Therefore, in 45 from hand-to-hand fights with the Japanese began to evade.
              1. Michael_Zverev
                Michael_Zverev 20 February 2017 20: 50
                +1
                As far as I remember, the Japanese army taught jiu-jitsu and judo, karate then was still Okinawan art.
                In 1945, our troops conducted offensive operations and did not shy away from hand-to-hand fights, it would be difficult to do on the offensive, rather it would be a matter of displaying reasonable tactics: if Japanese suicide bombers and half-mortars put up a banzai attack, it’s easier to shoot them, and a strengthened position easier to take by suppressing firing points.
  15. Kenneth
    Kenneth 18 February 2017 17: 14
    +1
    Artillery and machine guns were decided on the fields of the First World War. Not bayonet attacks. Melee weapons died in the 19th century, if not earlier.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 18 February 2017 17: 22
      +2
      By the way, it was during the time of the WWII that edged weapons were in use during trench battles. Actively used stilettos, brass knuckles, batons with nails, as well as everyone's favorite sapper shovels.
      1. Kenneth
        Kenneth 18 February 2017 17: 40
        0
        Yes of course. If it came to that. And so throw trenches with grenades.
        1. Michael_Zverev
          Michael_Zverev 20 February 2017 11: 00
          0
          Quote: Kenneth
          Yes of course. If it came to that. And so throw trenches with grenades.

          It came very often, because the attackers tried to quickly get out of the open and dive into enemy trenches, where they had to combine different types of battle: throw grenades, shoot, beat. The grenade as a weapon has a limitation, because you also need not to undermine yourself and your comrades, and the portable supply of grenades is finite. No wonder the WWII museums are full of samples of trench weapons from knives and brass knuckles to morgensterns and swords.
      2. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 18 February 2017 19: 57
        +3
        avva2012 "By the way, it was during the time of WWII that melee weapons were in use during trench fights. Stilettos, brass knuckles, batons with nails, as well as everyone’s favorite, sapper shovels were actively used."
        I’ll add from myself ... another such thing as an trench knife.)))
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 20 February 2017 06: 29
          0
          [media = http: //www.ww2.ru/upload/iblock/0b1/okt-10
          -1634.jpg]
          Harsh thing!
  16. Kenneth
    Kenneth 18 February 2017 17: 22
    0
    Bey shop, bang butt, if with a bayonet. It seems in this sequence.
  17. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 18 February 2017 17: 28
    +3
    Under the corn crush, such a form of military-applied sport as bayonet fighting was abolished. The last USSR championship was held in 1956 year. In fact, this is fencing. Could and leave - there, sports fencing on sabers and foils is, and even enter the Olympic program.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 18 February 2017 17: 40
      +3
      So he, that is, khrushch, believed that America would end with missiles alone. The man has problems, you see, don’t go to Freud winked
      1. tanit
        tanit 19 February 2017 07: 15
        +2
        He had problems. But here is his Mother Kuzkin - then they accepted and a little scared. But in reality - the Soviet tanks would have reached the English Channel, no doubt, but only - there would be nothing left of the Soviet Union. The superiority of the United States in nuclear weapons was overwhelming, and they themselves - almost nothing (almost) threatened - tanks, they weren’t afraid of dirt, but the Atlantic or the Pacific along the bottom would not pass. But - the bluff (about rockets stamped like sausages) was a success. And for this - thanks to Khrushchev. )))
        \
  18. RUSS
    RUSS 19 February 2017 10: 27
    0
    Bayonet attack.
    1. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak 19 February 2017 22: 25
      +2
      RUSS "Bayonet attack."
      More likely a parade!)))
      1. soldier
        soldier 20 February 2017 18: 25
        +17
        Of course
        Production photo
        1. Victor Red
          Victor Red 26 February 2017 21: 03
          0
          I agree, there is an officer in the background in a relaxed position. In real life - "machine gunner’s dream"
  19. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 19 February 2017 11: 45
    +3
    The bayonet becomes an anachronism already at the second stage of the 1st World War.
    And the rudiment of the era of edged weapons in the 2nd World War.
    If you normally teach soldiers to shoot at courses (without saving bullets),
    and, conversely, save ammo in battle by aiming a bayonet.
    1. Letnab
      Letnab 25 February 2017 09: 58
      +1
      yes, the bayonet is of course an anachronism in modern combat, but I think it’s possible that I think that in the general preparation of a soldier the skills in using knives should be present ... although to give the soldiers a bayonet shovel, make them dig trenches several times, and now there are skills, ...) ))) there will already be a concept of how to hold a long stick in your hands, and there you will not add the skills of injections and protection for long, and this will be enough ...
  20. Victor Red
    Victor Red 26 February 2017 21: 43
    0
    Quote: Kotischa
    The great Suvorov used to say "a fool's bullet - a bayonet done"!

    So the mountain commanders constantly speculated with this phrase, pushing the firing training into the background and pushing the excess of gunpowder. Suvorov, always, paid great attention to fire training, and the security of the troops under his command of ammunition was much higher than that of others.
    Quote: avva2012
    a bayonet-knife could not break through the Babai quilted robe ... the soldiers began to learn to beat not in the body, but in the neck?

    Look at the photo, how the fighters hold the rifle, at what level the tip of the bayonet is located. It can be assumed that the main blow will be applied to the face or neck. Often, sometimes even a light touch or designation of a blow was enough to disorient the enemy and cause him shock.
    Quote: Mikhail_Zverev
    Well, the quilted robe on cotton wool is a pretty solid thing, it was badly punched by the bad Cossack peaks of soft iron, and the three-bayonet bayonets broke during the Andijan uprising of 1898.

    A quilted robe on cotton wool or horsehair, since ancient times was a protective equipment for poor warriors, while the more wealthy tucked it under iron armor.
    In Russia, he is known as tegilay, the full-time combat uniform of archers.
  21. Sergey Dyakov
    Sergey Dyakov 27 February 2017 17: 35
    +1
    The Americans, on the Gudalkanal, simply gave guns to the soldiers and the problem of Japanese bayonets was solved.
    They were on duty in pairs - one sleeping, the other guarding.