Military Review

Expert: Iranian experts copied a Russian thermobaric rocket for the "Cornet"

29
Military expert Yuri Lyamin published in his блоге a photograph of the transport and launch container of a controlled anti-tank missile, which, judging by the marking, is an Iranian copy of the Russian thermobaric missile for Kornet anti-tank systems.




“An Iranian copy of the 9M133F-1 ATGM Kornet-E missile near Mosul. It was captured by IS fighters (banned in the Russian Federation) from Iraqi militia units in Tel Zalat, west of Mosul. The militants took advantage of the sandstorm that chained to the ground Aviation and attacked the positions of Iraqi government forces, ”Lyamin explains.

“The mere existence of Iranian copies of Cornet-E (Dehlaviyeh) among Shiite troops in Iraq was previously known, as well as Iran’s copies of ATGM TOW (Toophan), but the type of rocket itself is of interest. The transport and launch container (TPK) is marked for Iranian ammunition, but note that there are TB MISSILE letters after the 9M133 1 rocket code, and not the standard for marking Iranian ATGM AT MISSILE (Anti-Tank), ”the expert writes.

In his opinion, the TB designation is “ThermoBaric, that is, it is an Iranian copy of the usual 9М133-1, and 9М133Ф-1 with a thermobaric warhead.”

"TPK with ATGM is quite fresh, released in 2016 g", - notes Lyamin.
Photos used:
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com
29 comments
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  1. parkello
    parkello 5 December 2016 09: 50
    +6
    Well, they can write anything. and in terms of composition, it probably didn’t even stand nearby.
    1. svp67
      svp67 5 December 2016 10: 15
      +6
      Quote: parkello
      Well, they can write anything. and in terms of composition, it probably didn’t even stand nearby.

      Well, here, if only, by chance, they do not help "put" it.
      A sufficient number of Iranian students have studied and are studying at our institutes, who knows, who they taught and what there ... or what they themselves learned.
      It is no secret that the success of the missile programs of Iran and the DPRK, in many respects, occurred due to Gorbachev’s policy. Because of which, part of the developments, along with scientists, were forced to move from the USSR.
      1. parkello
        parkello 5 December 2016 10: 24
        +5
        I partly agree, but still I think they are far from the real mixture that they use in the Russian Federation. here it’s not enough to know just what to do, you also need to have the production technology and the products that are provided by the developer, and it is very difficult to obtain. there you need to copy all production from components to machine tools. therefore, I say that with the original it will be like earth and sky. although in some ways it may be consistent with the name.
        1. dauria
          dauria 5 December 2016 10: 33
          +2
          with the original will be like earth and sky. although in some ways it may be consistent with the name.


          And if the mixture is not worse, but better? There is no secret idea of ​​detonation involving atmospheric oxygen; there are samples for bulk copying. We are too condescending, arrogant to their engineers.
          Yes, and they do not copy this, but most importantly, the scheme with the leading and main charge with a marching engine in the middle between them. This is a highlight. Plus reliable simplicity. Once copied, you need to be proud.
          1. parkello
            parkello 5 December 2016 10: 39
            +8
            not well, it’s clear that they’re not copying anyhow. but you didn’t quite correctly express your thoughts, here I honestly didn’t understand what you mean And if the mixture is not worse, but better? There is no secret idea of ​​detonation involving atmospheric oxygen; there are samples for bulk copying. it cannot be better, well, it just cannot, purely physically. about the secret ... even as there is a secret. no one has yet managed to reproduce this mixture (and they are unlikely to be able to copy it in the next 30 years) in their entirety. something similar may be. but remotely resembling. it's not as simple as grabbing and copying AK. they (well, those Iranians) seemed to copy the S-300, and the Caitians copied. but ... this is not the original. for myself, yes, for God's sake. let them want something and copy it, but for comparison, it won’t even put it next to it.
            1. dauria
              dauria 5 December 2016 10: 53
              +1
              not well, it’s clear that they’re not copying anyhow. but you didn’t quite correctly express your thoughts, here I honestly didn’t understand what you mean


              I mean that it is too dismissive of the country, its scientists, engineers and the possibilities of industry. To a country that has its own spaceport and space rockets. By the way, they sent the monkey into space. For example, the blue LED, which was so lacking, was developed not by advanced Americans or Russians with their science, but by the Swedes. It also happens.
              1. Arameev
                Arameev 6 December 2016 18: 41
                0
                Quote: dauria
                I’m saying that the attitude to the country, its scientists, engineers and industrial capabilities is too dismissive .. They, by the way, sent the monkey into space ..
                .
                a monkey into space, having 80 lyam populations, and a bottomless oil wallet is certainly cool
                For example, the blue LED, which was so lacking, was developed not by advanced Americans or Russians with their science, but by the Swedes ..

                and what is an example? Swedes - well done, but what does Iran have to do with it? What serious discoveries and achievements of its own can the science of Iran (and any other Islamic country) have boasted over the last fifty years? without neglect. discoveries of the science of the Christian world and Far Eastern cultures - we all use in everyday life. and what has Islam given humanity over the past centuries ???
          2. NordUral
            NordUral 5 December 2016 12: 37
            +3
            Similarly, arrogance always ends badly.
        2. svp67
          svp67 5 December 2016 10: 39
          0
          Quote: parkello
          there you need to copy all production from components to machine tools

          You know how Russian weapons ALWAYS differed from foreign ones. This is because, if necessary, its production could be set up rather quickly at enterprises that had not previously been involved in its production ... The Iranians could get a "simplified" recipe.
          1. parkello
            parkello 5 December 2016 10: 47
            +4
            Well, it could be simplified. let it be produced, but until the full cycle no one will allow (and will do it right) it is impossible to distribute technologies from left to right, even if now they are allies. therefore, I wrote there above that it would somehow remotely resemble the original. but when compared, the loss will be very striking. and so I’ll tell you a secret, Russian weapons are not at all as simple as they seem at first glance. in our country, an Albanian AK can be bought for 300 euros, while the original costs 2000 and above. depending on which shot. the same is TT. Albanian cost 150-200 euros, and the Soviet simply will not sell. yes there is. but not for sale.
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 5 December 2016 11: 12
              +2
              I have a little idea of ​​the complexity of the problem.
              AK different craftsmen crookedly copy because the chrome plating of the barrel is a rather high and not cheap technology. China will not reproduce aircraft engines "the great copier". Not to mention that their new ones to do. In the contract for the Su-35, they strive to push 6 engines onto the plane.
              In thermobaric ammunition - a sea of ​​know-how and technology.
              And Russia is ahead of so many on this topic.
              IMHO, supply Iranians with unmarked products.
              And they "release copies". hi
              1. parkello
                parkello 5 December 2016 13: 00
                +2
                with you Alex 777, I agree. It is one thing to pack almost finished products into containers and label them as they like, and quite another thing to put into production a full cycle, even if only according to the left recipe (not entirely accurate), as Odessans say, "two big differences" wink
    2. The brightest
      The brightest 6 December 2016 08: 40
      0
      well, they can write anything
      Well, then why was there so much noise around the nuclear program, and why did the Zionists with the P&C docs hunt for their scientists. They can, they can.
  2. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 5 December 2016 09: 52
    +2
    you can copy part of the technology ... but you cannot completely reproduce it ... just remember the Kalashnikovs from other countries ... it looks like it’s not that ...
    1. Megatron
      Megatron 5 December 2016 10: 21
      0
      Well, what Kalash did in the German Democratic Republic, it seemed they were not bad, not like Chinese trash.
      1. parkello
        parkello 5 December 2016 10: 29
        +2
        Of the foreigners, only the Bulgarians had an exact copy of the AK; there, the entire production technology is completely adjusted as in Izhmash. the only country that possessed and has a full production cycle of AKM and AK-74 is Bulgaria, their products in the USA are sold as the original. they even have blued gates. no other country was able to adequately copy the AK. even Germany ... and by the way, the Bulgarian AK is not inferior to the Russian one. and Polish, German, Romanian and Chinese is trash. yes
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 5 December 2016 10: 42
          +1
          You can copy anything you want.
          It is a question of people, money and time. In total, they decide which is easier: copy or buy the finished one.
          1. Boris Zhitkovich
            Boris Zhitkovich 5 December 2016 10: 48
            0
            This is your way. Take the finished, a little redo and ready.
          2. parkello
            parkello 5 December 2016 10: 48
            +1
            well, good luck;) but do not forget that a copy is just a copy. and everyone knows that.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 5 December 2016 11: 00
              +6
              The Chinese have a saying: "if you managed to copy a master, then you are a master."
              And they are absolutely right.
              The right development chain: 1) first copy exactly
              2) then improve 3) then develop your own.

              Israel first copied Soviet weapons, then improved it,
              now developing himself.
              And the USSR started in exactly the same way. FAU copies, replica of B-29, replica of side-winder missile, etc. This is the right way.
  3. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 5 December 2016 10: 43
    +2
    It does not matter who and what was copied, the main thing is that the gangster equipment should be destroyed.
  4. Iline
    Iline 5 December 2016 11: 00
    0
    You can relate to this fact in different ways. One thing is certain - nobody will copy bad equipment.
  5. jovanni
    jovanni 5 December 2016 11: 20
    0
    These are our allies ... In Soviet times, at least they gave them licenses, but now they just tear everything they can. And they can’t ...
  6. orado
    orado 5 December 2016 11: 29
    0
    Iran is a great missile power)))
  7. my five cents
    my five cents 5 December 2016 11: 37
    0
    the copy is not the original. And what a copy. There is an approximation to the original, but there is an approximation. That is the difference. The Chinese also copied the S-300, and even sell it for export. And around Beijing, the original was installed. So they understand that this is not the same external resemblance and original filling.
  8. Ajent cho
    Ajent cho 5 December 2016 13: 04
    0
    Iranian

    Campaign, growing world xerox number 2 laughing
  9. doubovitski
    doubovitski 5 December 2016 21: 46
    +1
    Quote: dauria
    with the original will be like earth and sky. although in some ways it may be consistent with the name.


    And if the mixture is not worse, but better? There is no secret idea of ​​detonation involving atmospheric oxygen; there are samples for bulk copying. We are too condescending, arrogant to their engineers.
    Yes, and they do not copy this, but most importantly, the scheme with the leading and main charge with a marching engine in the middle between them. This is a highlight. Plus reliable simplicity. Once copied, you need to be proud.

    Understand the simple.
    A copy is always, by definition, always worse than the original. The quality of any product includes a bunch of indicators. Which are considered comprehensively. In order to do something yourself (to do better), you need to understand WHY the developer did just that, and not otherwise. And only then can we understand where your predecessor was mistaken. Or that he did not correctly evaluate during development. In other words, to get into the head of a person whom you have never seen. I tell you as a designer with a quarter-century experience.
  10. doubovitski
    doubovitski 5 December 2016 22: 00
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    Quote: parkello
    there you need to copy all production from components to machine tools

    You know how Russian weapons ALWAYS differed from foreign ones. This is because, if necessary, its production could be set up rather quickly at enterprises that had not previously been involved in its production ... The Iranians could get a "simplified" recipe.

    Don't talk nonsense. Any piece of iron is made according to the drawing agreed with the military representative and the agreed technology. Moreover, it is impossible to use arbitrary components (accepted only by the quality control department of the manufacturer of the elements). Any component purchased at another enterprise must be accepted by the military representative who serves this enterprise. There are wartime guests, which are put into effect by resolutions of the State Defense Committee and only during a special period (war). There are purely military and military additions to civilian Gost. There are mobilization documents that are put into circulation in case of war. TAM specifies requirements that reduce product quality. For example, tanks are not painted. And so on .... But this does not start working yesterday, not today, not in some Siberian plant. So, no simplifications are allowed. This is what distinguishes the products released in peacetime and in war. "Peaceful", of course, are of better quality.
    And further. With mobilization documents, it was written in advance what and to whom to do. And the factory management knows this, and has everything you need in the warehouses of its first departments, where strangers do not allow anyone.
  11. Go along
    Go along 6 December 2016 21: 09
    0
    Quote: dauria
    not well, it’s clear that they’re not copying anyhow. but you didn’t quite correctly express your thoughts, here I honestly didn’t understand what you mean


    I mean that it is too dismissive of the country, its scientists, engineers and the possibilities of industry. To a country that has its own spaceport and space rockets. By the way, they sent the monkey into space. For example, the blue LED, which was so lacking, was developed not by advanced Americans or Russians with their science, but by the Swedes. It also happens.

    Blue LED was developed in the USA.