Do I need a bayonet battle in the modern army?

62
A bayonet is one of the types of close combat, during which the bayonet is used as a piercing-cutting object, and the butt is used as a strike object. The basis of a bayonet battle based on the same principles as for fencing.

Do I need a bayonet battle in the modern army?


With full confidence we can say that the idea of ​​creating a combined weapons appeared a long time ago. But the most popular form of it was the halberd, which combines such weapons as an ax, spear and hook. However, the greatest number of developments of the combined weapon falls on the period of development of firearms. It is the complexity and duration of the recharge required additional equipment. In many museums of the world, a large number of such weapons have been preserved - these are pistol-swords, pistol-ax, pistol-shield, rifle-cane, pistol-knife, pistol-inkstand, arquebus-halberd and many others. However, the bayonet itself appeared much later.

According to legend, the bayonet was invented in the 17th century in France, in the city of Bayonne, hence the name - bayonet. The first copies of it were lance tips with a shortened shaft, which was inserted into the barrel for further combat. In order to introduce this weapon for the entire army, it was decided to demonstrate it to Louis XIV. However, the imperfect design led the king to order bayonets to be banned as impractical weapons. Fortunately, the same demonstration was attended by a captain with the very famous surname d'Artagnan, who managed to convince Louis. So a new type of weapon appeared in service with the French army. Then its use spread to other European states. In 1689, the bayonet appeared in service with the military in Austria. Soon, one small innovation was introduced - in addition to the trimmed lance, a tube was also attached to the barrel. This is how the type of weapon appeared, which the Russians call a bayonet. For a very long period of time, this weapon was used as a means of protecting infantrymen from cavalry. But it was Suvorov who made the bayonet a means of attack, emphasizing its obvious advantages in close combat. This decision was caused by a number of objective reasons. Thus, the firearms that existed at the time were effective at a maximum distance of 70 steps. The infantry could cover such a distance in 20 seconds, that is, no shooter could have fired more than one shot. And it took more than half a minute to recharge.



Initially, in bayonet fighting there were relatively few receptions. The warriors learned to use a bayonet, both against infantry and against cavalry, to defend with it from a bayonet, a sword or a spike. When armor was used in the army, training was also conducted on particularly strong strikes. At the same time, the development of bayonet combat proceeded in parallel with the development of classical fencing. And famous fencing teachers very often took the time to learn the techniques of using the bayonet. This is evidenced by the work of N. Sokolov and A. Valvil.

At the same time, it should be noted that the technique of using the bayonet was deliberately kept extremely simple to ensure the greater effectiveness of the mass training of soldiers. Often, limited to two or three basic techniques.

In Russian troops bayonet became popular during the time of Alexander Suvorov. He approaches the training of soldiers in much more detail. In his appeals to ordinary soldiers, one can find not only the basic principles of combat psychology, but also the basics of applied technology and even instructions on the development and application of peripheral vision.

However, at the beginning of the last century, the frequency of using bayonets sharply decreased. The reason for this was the appearance of a large number of small arms, equipped with shops for ammunition. And the Russian-Japanese war proved that the bayonet battle had lost its position. The thing was that although the Russians had defeated the Japanese during close combat, the presence of firearms had a great influence on the outcome of the war.

And the First World War, which began soon after, finally proved that the bayonet battle would be a guarantee of victory. And it was possible to use it only at the very end of the battle, when it was necessary to “finish off” the demoralized enemy.



Starting from the 20-ies of the twentieth century to the present day, bayonet fighting is just one of the elements of hand-to-hand fighting, and in addition, it is also a good method of physical and psychological training of warriors.

In addition, the bayonet battle was, and probably will remain, the most realistic of all types of hand-to-hand combat. Bayonet skills are learned very quickly, and besides, on the basis of them, further training in the techniques of conducting a fight with the use of a demining shovel takes place, and throws and strikes with bare hands are polished.

In the Soviet years for some time quite favorable conditions developed for the bayonet battle. The military themselves talked about the insufficient training of soldiers for his methods and focused mainly on the charters of foreign countries.

However, no matter how much the teachers would like to reduce the amount of training in methods of bayonet fighting to the required minimum, they could not manage without expanding their individual combat skills. So, in the West appeared bayonet battle based on ... boxing. Its founder, English officer Ebrey Nobbs, who was actively engaged not only in fencing, but also in boxing, was a very extraordinary person. This style quickly gained great popularity all over the world. Later, the fencing aspect found expression in the sport, and the boxing aspect - in the army. It was on the basis of this style that hand-to-hand fighting techniques began to develop in the army using improvised means.



In the 30 of the twentieth century in the USSR, another type of bayonet fighting was invented - on skis, which was based on the Chukotka tradition, known as “Captain”. At this second stage of development of the bayonet battle was completed.

After World War II, its development practically ceased. The mechanization of the army, the presence of automatic weapons, as well as the reduction of the service life of the soldiers led to the fact that in-depth study of methods of bayonet fighting became irrelevant.

In the military structures of other states, bayonet combat remains one of the main in the process of training soldiers. However, even to compare does not make sense. In these states, the army is professional, and during the year of service it’s not that the bayonet, at least they learned to hold a weapon correctly.

Until recently, the American army could serve as an example for others. But to date, the US military has decided to stop using bayonets. The first step in the implementation of it will be the refusal of training methods of bayonet bout. And although the bayonet is part of the infantry weapons, it is used less and less. The last time this type of weapon was used in Iraq in 2004 year. And the US military command is confident that the bayonet can no longer be an effective weapon in the context of a modern war. Instead, American soldiers will be trained in hand-to-hand combat using handy tools.

It is envisaged that much attention will be paid to appropriate psychological training (which, by the way, was previously carried out in the process of training for bayonet fighting). But how it will be implemented is not yet known.

However, the Marines have already announced that, at least in the near future, they do not intend to abandon the use of bayonets. This decision is explained very simply - it is the marines most often who have to engage in close combat with the enemy. For example, it was in Afghanistan and, quite possibly, in Iraq. Often they have to deal with clearing the territory and keeping the occupied area.



Meanwhile, other states are not yet ready to abandon the use of bayonet weapons. Techniques for conducting bayonet combat are mandatory for training soldiers in the UK, France, Germany, Australia, India, China. In Russia, the direction of the bayonet battle is more or less developed, as the ORSS system, in which training takes place in a sports-game form in two versions - simplified, in which no protective equipment is used, and the battle itself is conducted on mock-ups, and complicated - instead of a bayonet ball, masks, bibs, protective gloves.

Conducting comprehensive training in bayonet combat gives you the opportunity to feel confident in a duel, both with and without weapons. The most comprehensive training course in bayonet techniques is used in the process of training special forces.

Perhaps the military command still needs to reconsider its attitude toward bayonet fighting? It may be worth it to return to the army? Remember Chechnya, where most of the battles were fought in the conditions of close combat and consider whether soldiers would need bayonets skills in the event of a new military threat?
62 comments
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  1. grizzlir
    +9
    27 January 2012 08: 27
    The bayonet battle is of course not as relevant as in those days when the share of automatic weapons was very low. A soldier with a rifle entering into hand-to-hand combat could make 1 shot, then it was necessary to jerk the bolt and in a short-lived hand-to-hand it sometimes did not have enough time. I needed a bayonet. A soldier with an attached bayonet had a long arm against the enemy with weapons without a bayonet. Do you need a bayonet on a machine gun in our time, I think yes, there are different situations in battle. Although I think I don’t have to devote much time to training a melee with a bayonet It’s better to do more shooting training.
  2. +7
    27 January 2012 08: 48
    The bayonet battle was widely used during the Seven Years' War of the 18th century, and here the Prussian army of Frederick the Great acted as a trendsetter. The Prussians were among the first to use the oncoming bayonet battle and the bayonet attack of the brave Prussian grenadiers neither the French nor the Austrians could withstand. The Russians experienced the power of the crushing bayonet strike of the Prussians, but already at the battle of Kunersdorf, the Russian army beat Frederick's troops with his own weapons.
    The second half of the 18th century was the widespread introduction and approval of a bayonet attack in the armies of Europe. The apogee of the heyday of hand-to-hand bayonet battles is the Napoleonic wars. But already at that time rifle units with rifled weapons appeared in the armies of Europe to knock the enemy out at a distance.
    During the Caucasian War of the 19th century, Russians, relying on bayonet fighting tactics, for a long time neglected aimed weapons fire, but the Chechens after the battle on the Valerik River learned lessons and began to widely use aimed weapons fire from ambushes. At first, there were very few skirmishers in the Russian army - as a result in the 40s of the 19th century, the Caucasian corps suffered heavy losses.
    But the Russian army finally learned the lessons after the Crimean War - selfless throws into the melee of Russian soldiers near Sevastopol were leveled by the massive use of long-range rifled rifles from the French and British.
    As a result, they realized that it was necessary to train soldiers with a bayonet battle, but progress could not be stopped. The bullet began to push the bayonet.
    1. grizzlir
      +2
      27 January 2012 08: 53
      I agree with you, but near Sevastopol they didn’t go on bayonets from a good life. In the Russian army then there were practically no long-range small arms, only smooth-bore guns.
    2. Tyumen
      +5
      27 January 2012 12: 43
      During the Caucasian War, the soldier was given 182 rounds of ammunition for the entire war. There is no way without a bayonet.
  3. +7
    27 January 2012 08: 52
    A bayonet battle is needed, any military of past and winter wars will confirm this.
  4. +10
    27 January 2012 09: 21
    “During a battle in a cornfield in Helmand province, Lieutenant James Adamson, a 24-year-old officer and the Royal Scots Regiment, killed one of the Taliban with rifle fire, but ran out of ammunition in the store. When the second gunman, Lieutenant, by eo According to him, in a split second, out of two decisions - to change the magazine and use a bayonet, he chose the second. Rushing forward and jumping over the stream, he drove the bayonet into the second Taliban. "

    The issue of removing the bayonet from the armament was considered at one of the last meetings at the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia, after the United States announced the abandonment of these weapons. The main argument against the knife, which is mounted on the barrel of the machine, was the low probability of using it in a modern "digital" battle.
    However, the decisive argument was that "the bayonet-knife remains the last chance of a fighter when the cartridges run out." Therefore, the mount for the bayonet-knife was included in the list of mandatory requirements for a new machine
    War veterans claim that the decision to leave the bayonet-knife in the ranks is one of the most faithful in the last two years. The cartridges have one unpleasant property: no matter how many you take, they end anyway. And the knife fixed on the machine makes it possible to stab the enemy from a safe distance. A bayonet-knife has saved many lives many times. In addition, by fastening a bayonet-knife with a sheath, you can make a whole set of tools: a hammer, wire cutters and a small wire saw. And, of course, such a knife on a halt is especially indispensable when you need to open a stew.
    He is also good as a throwing weapon - he will not pierce, he will be deafened. Instructors say that if you “stick and crank it,” the enemy has no chance of surviving.

    Hand-to-hand fighting with weapons is part of the mandatory physical training program for modern Russian fighters. They are taught to beat the enemy not only with a bayonet, but also with the butt of a machine gun. Officers consider these skills vital. “Even if the enemy is wearing body armor, he still has a lot of unprotected places where you can prick: neck, arms, legs. In addition, if you hit the butt properly, then no body armor will save, ”says the commander of one of the ground brigades.

    http://deadland.ru/node/7459
    1. vylvyn
      0
      18 March 2012 05: 21
      I agree, put a plus. The WWII photo is cool.
  5. +6
    27 January 2012 10: 26
    At one time, the school had lessons in "Military training". We went through the course of a young soldier, learned to throw grenades, bayonet combat. It was interesting to everyone, even the girls. And then they passed off tests for the "TRP" badge, ready for work and defense, and for the "Voroshilovsky shooter" badge. Three degrees ... First degree - it was such pride! smile
    1. +4
      27 January 2012 10: 53
      The first time I fired a machine gun in a school class in the 9th, in my opinion. We were taken to the shooting range of the Kantemirovskaya division. The sensations are unforgettable. What is surprising - hit! Although the target almost did not see out of excitement, it was deaf and blind, Then the daughters drove to the shooting range when he served, despite the confrontation of his wife. And now I don’t even know if there are NVP in schools? Do they teach young people to shoot?
      1. schta
        +2
        27 January 2012 12: 05
        don't learn anything. Maximum touch MMG AK-74. And then if you’re especially lucky
      2. J_silver
        +4
        27 January 2012 12: 53
        We were also taken to the training ground after the 9th grade, but we were with the cadets - oddly enough, but also hit the first time and were fine on points! He was also worried, it was necessary to shoot solo first, then the burst, but I, to be frightened, instead of the burst, shot two rounds of ammunition, so I knocked it out fine ...
        And some of us have all the cartridges in line right in front of us ...
        We collected and disassembled automatic machines at NVP for speed, just the girls demonstrated miracles - the main thing was not to cut a finger when cleaning the ramrod, otherwise all subsequent trainings were worthless ...
        A PCA to disassemble, so nothing to do!
    2. J_silver
      +4
      27 January 2012 12: 48
      And do not whistle about the Voroshilov shooter badge? Are you around 80?
      1. +5
        27 January 2012 13: 23
        I had a first degree TRP badge, smile I am 63. And I admit that I confused Voroshilovsky with manenko. With us, there were already only sports categories. recourse
    3. aironfirst
      0
      29 January 2012 16: 12
      I don’t remember for "Voroshilovsky shooter" (it was a long time ago)) ...), but I remember "well-aimed shooter" (without degrees), they gave it out at school, and I got it.
  6. Makhalych
    +4
    27 January 2012 11: 04
    I think that the bayonet should not be abandoned. Anything can happen ... In our detachment there was a case when a group from the encirclement broke into a bayonet. That is, of course, not everything with bayonet-knives joined to the AKS smile , and the article that was at hand. But with the AKSs to which there were no more cartridges either.
    So it’s too early to write off a bayonet.
    1. aironfirst
      0
      29 January 2012 16: 17
      Not specifically bayonet fighting, but the basics of hand-to-hand combat in general, to study the fighters
      it’s necessary, at least in the context of the general military unit, but for some military branches, of course, it is obligatory.
  7. +7
    27 January 2012 11: 18
    .... And now I don’t even know if there are NVP in schools? Do they teach young people to shoot? ........
    I doubt very much what shooting there is? There is OBZH ..... of course a useful subject, but it should not replace the NVP, but supplement ... but alas!
    In the year of rampant pseudo-democratic transformations, it suddenly became clear that we did not have an enemy, ...... and the destruction of everything that was useful and right from school to space started.
    -A bayonet attack (defense) was, is and will be an integral part of the battle ..... As an example, I cite both Chechen companies, where in the conditions of urban (the most difficult type) battle, fighting positions resembled a layer cake, and each house passed from hand to hand hands several times a day ...... exactly when the price of the matter was seconds and the old, good bayonet came to the rescue ......
  8. sealord
    +4
    27 January 2012 11: 19
    But to date, the US military has decided to stop using bayonets. The first step in implementing it will be the refusal to learn the techniques of bayonet combat. And although the bayonet is part of the infantry armament, it is used less and less.


    None of the sane instructors of the "special forces" have ever separated bayonet and hand-to-hand combat. Starting with Kharlampiev, hand-to-hand combat was applied and bayonet combat was a component of the hand-to-hand combat system.
  9. Lech e-mine
    0
    27 January 2012 12: 06
    HA HA is a funny question. With a bayonet to pierce the hand of an enemy pressing a rocket launcher button, this is and must be done now and in the foreseeable future.
  10. +4
    27 January 2012 12: 09
    Despite the digitized world - at the right time, no shit is working - and then hand-to-hand combat and a bayonet decide a knife !!!
  11. dmitri077
    -4
    27 January 2012 12: 43
    instead of a bayonet battle - a pistol, grenades and good communication
    1. Lech e-mine
      +3
      27 January 2012 12: 54
      grenade in the ROOM of an apartment building when against several AMBALS YOU are crazy.
      1. dmitri077
        0
        27 January 2012 13: 27
        specially for you on u-tube there is a video about conducting special operations in the Caucasus ... something is not visible there with knives! and if without civilians, then just a grenade enters the room FIRST! the knife is already at the very extreme .. especially if AMBALA)) tea I am not Chuck Norris
    2. marauder
      -3
      27 January 2012 21: 14
      Quote: dmitri077
      instead of a bayonet battle - a pistol, grenades


      Grenade into underpants, and yank the ring. Then the bayonet battle is no longer terrible.
    3. 0
      11 February 2012 17: 53
      in the pistol the cartridges end, grenades - scatter, in the walkie-talkie the batteries will sit down .. then what? Yes, it is not necessary to consider the bayonet the main weapon at present, but it should be in the equipment. 300-400 gr. the fighter is not crushed, but can help out
  12. Tyumen
    +1
    27 January 2012 12: 52
    And the First World War, which began soon after, finally proved that the bayonet battle would be a guarantee of victory. And it was possible to use it only at the very end of the battle, when it was necessary to “finish off” the demoralized enemy.
    What is it like? Bayonet - a guarantee of victory, but they only manage to pierce the retreating? smile It's awkward.
  13. J_silver
    +1
    27 January 2012 13: 01
    I immediately remember about this the first film Star landing ...
  14. 755962
    0
    27 January 2012 14: 00
    Bullet-fool, bayonet-well done, poplar-argument, mace-fact. In my opinion, of course you need it! After all, it’s not always to play drones, but to shoot cannons. ! Toda and it will rush! Death to mosquitoes and flies, up to the apiary fellow
  15. +1
    27 January 2012 15: 47
    The bayonet and sapper blade are the most reliable protection of a fighter when all other means end. The last line of defense, so to speak, the last argument. So, let the Pindosses refuse, then find out why))) In Vietnam, they already pierced once when they refused to put guns on their fighters, after shooting all the missiles, it became an easy target for our MiGs
  16. +1
    27 January 2012 16: 10
    This probably stems again from their new military doctrine. Expect a beat from far away.
    So the landing of three or four landing divisions in California and Washington will solve a lot of tasks.
    1. dmitri077
      -4
      27 January 2012 16: 39
      and they will fly to the coast on "corncrackers"?! .. drown like kittens in the ocean! against 260 million! the trunks of the "peaceful" population to wave bayonets and shoulder blades ??? Lordaaa wink
  17. PIZDEC82
    0
    27 January 2012 18: 44
    Of course you need ...))) as well as hand-to-hand and knife combat .. i.e. neighbor.) anything in war is possible ....
  18. nonsense
    -2
    27 January 2012 21: 19
    Hmm, gentlemen. I read it here ... Funny! Automatic individual weapons of fighters and bayonets things are not compatible. A bayonet with an assault rifle is an anachronism. smile And its use in modern conditions described in the article can not be called an amusing incident either. (You can also check the ascetic described here by Ascet, Lieutenant Adams, who slaughtered some accidentally turned into a combat zone poor fellow with a bayonet - he’s probably already sitting in a fool on a holoperidol).
    PS: for lovers of bayonets - smile but why are there bayonets, let's immediately take the spears with scimitars into service - they are much more effective than bayonets in hand-to-hand fighting!
    1. dmitri077
      -4
      27 January 2012 23: 47
      absolutely right! people have seen enough movies winked today seas info about combat experience, we don’t want to learn anything .. we’ll step on the rake .. sorry
    2. marauder
      0
      28 January 2012 04: 08
      Quote: nespich
      Hmm, gentlemen. I read it here ... Funny!

      The bayonet does not cancel everything else. Individual and automatic.

      you carry a spare tire with you in the car. throw him out. only takes a place.
      1. nonsense
        -1
        28 January 2012 15: 16
        Good example with a spare tire! - By analogy, you still carry the WHEEL (spare), and not ski. - Ferstein? - That is. and it’s more profitable to take more cartridges for a couple of stores instead of a bayonet than a bayonet, which is still not in danger of being used.
        1. aironfirst
          0
          29 January 2012 16: 30
          It depends on whose hands these "skis" fall ....
          Open a can with a shop from a machine? To overcome wire obstructions by "shooting" these? But what if ammunition runs out during marksmanship?
          IMHO, one does not interfere with the other.
          1. nonsense
            +1
            29 January 2012 16: 45
            aironfirst,
            Open a can with a shop from a machine? To overcome wire obstructions by "shooting" these? But what if ammunition runs out during marksmanship?
            IMHO, one does not interfere with the other.

            EMNIP, we have a can / ration in our ration / ration ...
            I see that you are not aware that not every wire can be cut with a bayonet-knife - so special. mites in the unit still have to have during the fighting ...
            For emergency cases, the so-called NZ - ammunition, which without the order of the commander is forbidden to expend. And the number of wearable ammunition will only increase by a couple of stores, if the soldier does not have to carry a bayonet-knife ...
    3. 0
      11 February 2012 17: 56
      the spear - SPG-9 - has long been in service, you don’t even need to take it
  19. ab
    ab
    0
    27 January 2012 21: 32
    As my acquaintance said. How much should be needed .... m, what would
    1 request ... a gun, a gun, grenades.
    2.time
    3 saber blade
    4kn
    5. hard hat
    6.find a completely flat area without stones and branches

    And most importantly, to meet the same dol ... but as he himself, what would come together with him in hand-to-hand combat
    1. mengeleff
      +1
      27 January 2012 21: 38
      ab
      As my acquaintance said. How much should be needed .... m, what would
      1 request ... a gun, a gun, grenades.
      2.time
      ...

      Is this just another pissed wisdom or is it a psalm from your synagogue? wink
    2. marauder
      0
      28 January 2012 04: 00
      Quote: ab
      In the words of my friend. What should be done ....

      This is about melee, moron. wink
      And we are talking about the bayonet.
      You have this tool in point 4.
  20. ab
    ab
    0
    27 January 2012 21: 44
    Quote: mengeleff
    Is this just another pissed wisdom or is it a psalm from your synagogue?

    YES no, friend of the Special Forces officer (PDSS Baltic Fleet), but you still won’t understand
    1. +2
      28 January 2012 08: 34
      A strange statement for a “spetsnaz officer (PDSS balt of the fleet).” By the nature of his service, he is obliged to protect the water area from sea raiders, and if we are talking about a “spetsnaz man”, then in the water. And there edged weapons are at a special price. (APS and an underwater pistol is not always applicable). Perhaps you misunderstood him, he just told you a rather old army joke. (I don’t know how it is now in Russia, but under the USSR, the PDSS and the naval special forces were completely different structures with directly opposite tasks)
  21. smoke
    +5
    27 January 2012 22: 13
    tuta the Chinese will come, oh will be hand-to-hand - shaolin vs cowboy bully
  22. +3
    27 January 2012 22: 17
    When hit with a bayonet in the stomach, it gets stuck there ... muscle contracts ... Therefore, it is necessary to beat in the face ... The shock is in our opinion ... Very good results hit the store in the face ... Experience of a real bayonet battle ... Very creepy ... But now nothing is scary ... I’ve been drinking our first toast for 34 of the year ...
  23. Hans grohman
    +1
    28 January 2012 01: 35
    Somehow, being under a light "shofe" (then I still drank alcohol), I argued with my acquaintance that a bayonet is a necessary and irreplaceable thing. By the way, this acquaintance, at one time was engaged in "historical fencing" (in short, he was familiar with the technique of using XO quite well). He proved to me that in hand-to-hand combat, a knife would be a more weighty argument than a bayonet.
    So, after the evidence base for both ended, we decided to resolve our dispute with the last method - practice. He took a pencil - as a knife simulator, and I am an airsoft AKC.
    He missed the first shot with a trunk, but apparently did not find this argument convincing. The second time, when he went forward, I took a step towards him and poked the trunk in the thigh of my left leg. As a result, I won the argument, and this person limped on his left foot for another week.

    A bayonet is needed. The probability of using a bayonet in modern combat may be "extremely small"))), but as long as it exists, the bayonet must remain in service.
  24. +1
    28 January 2012 04: 00
    Quote from the famous film "A dagger is good for someone who has it, and bad for someone who has it at the right time." In conditions when the front line is "blurred" (city, jungle), the probability of hand-to-hand combat is very high and the presence of a bayonet (or its absence) can play a decisive role. After the Vietnam War, the US Army attached great importance to bayonet combat. In 2010, the Pentagon leadership decided to remove it from service, but the US Marine Corps flatly refused to use a bayonet! Modern bayonets are multifunctional (this is both a knife and a tool). , they do not take up a lot of space, have an insignificant mass, it may be necessary only once in a lifetime, but this will save the life of a fighter (there is also one life)
    1. grigil43
      +1
      28 January 2012 07: 47
      Yes, the life of a soldier is the most necessary element of victory in the war. And therefore, a bullet, bayonet, butt, fist, and, for example, even sand in the eyes of the enemy, are all compelling victories over the enemy. I am for the bayonet, but not only, I am for everything useful and necessary for defeating the enemy.
  25. nonsense
    +1
    28 January 2012 19: 58
    ArkanModern bayonets are multifunctional (this is both a knife and a tool), they take a lot of space, have a small mass,,
    Modern bayonets suck. They do not stab like bayonets of the 19th century, and do not cut like knives, and their mass becomes noticeable to everyone in a walking march (an extra pound along with a scabbard), and it is inconvenient to carry them. And about "it will be needed once in a life and will save a life" I will say that you never know what we may need once in a lifetime to save a life-- wink for example, 100 grams of vodka sometimes (more than 1 time in a life) can save a life, but it’s not too painful to pour ...
    1. 0
      29 January 2012 03: 00
      nonsense,
      I apologize, it seemed to me that on this thread they were discussing the need for a bayonet, not the quality of their manufacture. But on the rest, everyone’s life is different and everyone’s problems are different. Some will care if he has a bayonet, others will pour 100 gram. Well, I sincerely wish you that your life would never be in jeopardy, temboley (judging by the way you think) doesn’t need that much.
      1. nonsense
        +1
        29 January 2012 12: 42
        And I did not say anything about the QUALITY of MANUFACTURING of the bayonets. I'm talking about their alleged multifunctionality (non-existent). Those. bayonet as a tool he is NO. So why should he carry a soldier with him? - What would the service not seem like honey?
        PS: and who cares "whether he will have a bayonet"? wink This is already, you know, something from the field of Dr. Freud ....
  26. +1
    28 January 2012 20: 19
    I believe that while people are converging on the battlefield, a bayonet-knife is necessary, at least as the last argument. The thing is different, that the bayonet-knife itself needs some improvement, at least to use it as a regular knife, or something. Accordingly, the best steel cutting properties etc
  27. SIA
    SIA
    0
    28 January 2012 22: 22
    And the bayonet is needed, and the knife is also needed. There are different situations. To get weapons, to remove the sentries quietly ... There are a lot of examples when a knife or bayonet was rescued in difficult situations.
    1. nonsense
      -3
      28 January 2012 23: 29
      smile You're a romantic! "To get weapons"? - in the sense of war, and we are without weapons? Or "quietly remove the sentry" - with a bayonet? - +1000500! Yes, and with a knife too ... - Well, in some kind of "counter-strike" why not ... And "civilized people" have had a firearm with a silencer for 40 years for such things ...
      PS: yes, a knife (not a bayonet!) As part of a soldier’s outfit is needed. Household / tourist. You can even fold ...
      1. SIA
        SIA
        0
        29 January 2012 10: 13
        Where did I write that the sentry is quietly removed with a bayonet or knife?
        Answer !?
  28. alex13st
    +7
    29 January 2012 00: 52
    I read the comments, IMHO a little not that plane. Recently, the necessity and necessity of RB, and even more of a bayonet fight, has been often discussed. And everyone cites arguments like - "but in modern warfare it does not come to hand-to-hand combat, except perhaps with the exception of special forces." I agree. BUT! Who said that everything is limited to this? A soldier has two more parameters that must be developed in addition to tactics and other necessary ones, namely: the first is psychological stamina and the will to win and the second is developed motor skills and speed-strength training. And from here we go to hand-to-hand fighting and bayonet fighting, as a component of training, developing confident behavior during psychological stress and increased power loads. A self-confident person is many times calmer and smarter in decision-making, as has been proven by practice.
    All other points are not for me to dispute.
    1. aironfirst
      +1
      29 January 2012 16: 43
      I absolutely agree, there is nothing to add, it's a pity, only pluses once ....
  29. nonsense
    +1
    29 January 2012 12: 35
    SIA,
    And the bayonet is needed, and the knife is also needed. There are different situations. Weapons to obtain, to remove the sentries on a quiet ...

    belay They wrote a little higher - or do you somehow interpret it differently?
  30. SIA
    SIA
    0
    29 January 2012 20: 17
    And what, I wrote that the sentinel with a bayonet or a knife should be quietly removed?
    1. nonsense
      0
      29 January 2012 21: 37
      Well, if you are still in some context here about the extraction of weapons and the removal of the sentry mentioned ... smile Something on howitzer artillery in different situations ...
  31. 0
    29 January 2012 22: 21
    And yet, sadly, the same bayonet-knife in our army units looks more like paraphernalia and not a means of application, except for special units of course.
    I hope that when our army completely switches to the contractual basis, bayonet fighting will receive more attention in all military branches without exception.
  32. 0
    30 January 2012 03: 03
    But in the film of 2011, it seems, "Battle of Los Angeles" American chick-Zoldat with a bayonet-knife fastened to the wall and cold-bloodedly shot him at point-blank range. What more proof is needed? smile
  33. alexander hjcnjd
    0
    30 January 2012 13: 46
    I believe that, at the expense of the relevance of the bayonet, the ultimate truth should be the opinion of veterans of the Afghan and two Chechen wars.
  34. slave420
    0
    14 February 2012 07: 50
    Bullet fool-bayonet well done and that said it all ...
  35. alesinelnikov
    0
    17 March 2012 19: 34
    My grandfather, after leaving the encirclement in the newly formed unit, was the third in line for the rifle (after huge losses of weapons there was such a problem) was armed with a sapper blade and went on the attack with it! I don’t know how many souls are on his account, but the Germans had a density of fire not lower than in the modern war, well, let's say high enough. So he came to the Kursk Bulge, not with a shovel of course. but why yes, because I fought Finnish, the word was already special. Everything that can be a weapon needs to be studied, and the bayonet is even more so because it’s not only convenient for them to cut bread!
  36. vylvyn
    0
    18 March 2012 06: 05
    I liked the article very much. It is written what is called, in business. Very interesting and positive. The bayonet-knife is and will be. Though officially forbid him, but the fighter will never refuse him. And in hand-to-hand combat it will always come in handy, like a sapper shovel, and opening a canned food for yourself and a friend and a spoon will replace the stews to eat, and take out the bullet, and cut the wire. As they say - a knife is necessary in the household. Well, since there will be a knife, then why not use it in battle? There will be a bayonet battle. Of course not on the same scale as it was in the 18-19 centuries. It is possible that in 100-200 years the armies will already be armed with blasters, but with bayonet-knives attached to them. Although who knows.
  37. Oles
    0
    8 November 2012 14: 57
    bayonet attack - an anachronism of the times of Suvorov ..... at all times the Russian army fell down with numbers, mass, herd ..... but when they came up with a machine gun .. here the amba ... our herd immediately became a mass of slaughter ...... which did not stop our stupid warlords of the times of the Second World War from throwing thousands of our fighters for slaughter .....
  38. abelardo1191
    0
    22 November 2012 23: 09
    The bayonet battle must remain in the military! This is the last chance and measure of the party that imposed it! And stronger is the one who was better taught! No! His Majesty the Bayonet cannot be discounted! Even Suvorov said that the bullet is a fool, and the bayonet is well done! Cold weapons mean more in the dump! And the bayonet in skillful hands will sometimes be cooler than a bullet!
  39. +15
    4 November 2017 16: 36
    definitely needed