German "SIG Sauer" claims to sell its rifles to the Bundeswehr

While Heckler & Koch was able to win a tender for the sale of HK416 automatic rifles to France, another manufacturer, the German SIG Sauer, announced its intention to participate in a future Bundeswehr tender for the supply of automatic rifles for the German army. bmpd with reference to the french newsletter TTU.

Automatic rifle SiG516 Patrol

SIG Sauer is known for its sports weapons, as well as the supply of weapons for police forces around the world.

In contrast to the French, the German military considered the HK416 rifle unsuccessful, incl. due to inaccurate shooting. The head of the German Defense Ministry, Ursula von der Leyen, decided last year to remove it from service since 2019. Therefore, 2 international tenders will soon be announced: one for small arms for special forces, the second for automatic rifles for the armed forces as a whole.

If successful, SIG Sauer can get a contract for the production and supply of 160tys. rifles.

The publication notes that the company "SIG Sauer" previously accused of illegal arms transfers to Colombia and Kazakhstan.

Comments

[OLD FART]

Beautiful automatic of course, but against our Kalash he is far away (I mean reliability and simplicity)

[GSH-18]

Quote: STARPER

Beautiful automatic of course, but against our Kalash he is far away (I mean reliability and simplicity)

Like Kalash to the latest models of automatic small arms.

[OLD FART]

Maybe ... Most of the military in the world still prefer to use our "Kalash" This fact is undeniable yet ...

[rjxtufh]

Quote: STARPER

Maybe ... Only our "Kalash" still prefer to use the majority of the military in the world .. hi This fact is indisputable yet ...

In those countries where there are no problems with fertility.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: rjxtufh

Quote: STARPER

Maybe ... Only our "Kalash" still prefer to use the majority of the military in the world .. hi This fact is indisputable yet ...

In countries where there are no birth problems.

In countries where there are no birth problems, but, according to the Washington Regional Committee, there are problems with democracy.

[rasputin17]

MP-40 Here is the only option that comes to mind! and everything else tuftalogy full of everything that was well done by the Bundesfer!

[VikVik741]

What about the MG-42?

[rjxtufh]

Quote: VikVik741

What about the MG-42?

What about him? He died in 1945. without leaving heirs.
And, if that, do not about the post-war MG1. He has only some constructive and external similarities with MG42. And so, these weapons are of a completely different class.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: rasputin17

MP-40 Here is the only option that comes to mind! and everything else is tuftalogy

And cho, MP-40 was already too good? I held it in my hands, compared it, I would not say that it was a super-device. And on the other hand - but strongly this MP-40, no matter how good it may be, helped the Germans in the 45th?

[rjxtufh]

Quote: Zoldat_A

but strongly this MP-40, no matter how good it may be, helped the Germans in the 45th?

But did StG44 strongly (in terms of performance characteristics it is practically the same AK-47) help the Germans in the 45th?
Germany lost the war on September 3, 1939. And she was defeated on May 8, 1945. (Berlin time and May 9, Moscow time). The time interval between these dates was only a period of "formalities".
Although, if the Germans could invent some kind of van der Waffe, then they would have a chance. Not for nothing that Hitler pressed him like that.
With conventional weapons, the Germans had no chance. None.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: rjxtufh

Germany lost the war on September 3, 1939.

Germany did not lose the war on September 3, the 39th. Since September 1, the 39th, everything was nishtyak. Germany lost the war on June 22, 41, when it attacked the USSR. Hitler would have had the mind to agree with Stalin-would have divided the whole world ..... Not smart enough - Genghis Khan-Napoleonic ambitions overpowered ......

[va3610]

What do you think are the latest examples?

[210ox]

This "beautiful automatic" is a kind of copy of the M16 ...

[OLD FART]

Quote: 210ox

This "beautiful automatic" is a kind of copy of the M16 ...

In toy stores there are such bulk, but you will find a copy of figs for your son "Kalash" ...

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: STARPER

but you will find a copy of figs for your son "Kalash" ...

Growing up - the real will. Why copy

[Ushly_bashkort]

Not a copy of him. Based on the AR-15 scheme made - yes.

[Uhalus]

So I thought about it. All the features specific to the M-16 are presented here, including even a manual gate closer.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: 210ox

"beautiful automatic" is a copy of the M16 ...

The classic layout of modern rifles.

[rasputin17]

No! this is the lysac of the sacred anus of its supreme master !! As a rule, advertising its merits is not a single drawback !!

[Ushly_bashkort]

You are sorry, but warm with soft confuse.
I will make a reservation right away, I like Kalash and I do not want to humiliate him with this comment.
Kalashnikov is a massive, cheap and unpretentious weapon for a large army with a large mobilization resource. Therefore, popular in the world. This is when every schoolchild can master it in two hours. The Germans, for example, have a different doctrine. They have a regular army should confront the enemy (us) as efficiently as possible before the reinforcements approach in the form of the American army, and then relax the rolls and the remainder is purely on the grasp. And their budget allows them to do such a mass shooting. Accordingly, the approach is completely different to design. It concerns almost all European weapons.

[Asadullah]

You are sorry, but warm with soft confuse.

This is not even the point. Nothing bad saw this manufacturer. He himself had to shoot 220 for a couple of years, only the most pleasant memories. Scolding good is stupid.

[rasputin17]

They now have other problems on their way that are much more important and believe me that in six months they will not give a damn what their army is armed if they do not revise their policies radically !!

[dvina71]

Quote: Ushly_bashkort

Kalashnikov is a massive, cheap and unpretentious weapon for a large army with a large mobilization resource. Therefore, popular in the world. This is when every schoolchild can master it in two hours. The Germans, for example, have a different doctrine. They have a regular army should confront the enemy (us) as efficiently as possible before the reinforcements approach in the form of the American army, and then relax the rolls and the remainder is purely on the grasp.

what other nonsense is being invented to justify the adoption of sports weapons in service?
Do you really believe what you wrote?
AK is the perfect battlefield weapon (for now). The fact that he is not expensive and not difficult to manufacture is just another + sy to him.
But this does not mean at all that it is intended for uneducated, poorly trained armies.
Descendants of the AR-15 are more likely to suit them.
Does the term "suppression" mean anything to you in the context of automatic weapons?
If so, what is better in this kotextka .. AK with 30 rounds and practically uptime or AR-15 (with the family) .. less rounds, regular failures?

[Ushly_bashkort]

Actually, I wrote exactly the same thing in other words. Note that I have never said that AK is worse.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: STARPER

against our Kalash he is far

Kalashnikov - man and machine gun - owes a coffin to life. Better not and never will be. And about the competence of those who make decisions in Europe - everything is illustrated by a photograph. Not a meeting of defense ministers, but a Dutch brothel ....

[dokusib]

Is the blonde in the center next to Usul this chya? I mean from where?

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: STARPER

Beautiful automatic of course, but against our Kalash he is far away (I mean reliability and simplicity)

You just lagged behind life, like the author of the article.
HK416 / HK417 is one of the best examples of modern small arms - which Delta special forces are armed with.
If you knew the design of weapons, you wouldn’t write such nonsense.

HK416 is not inferior in reliability to the AK-74 and AK hundredth series,
but surpasses it both in effective firing range, and in accuracy and ease of use.

[Varyag86]

Then why the Germans do not want to use this weapon, we note German origin?))

[The black]

Let the Ukrainian machine "Malyuk" be bought, they are pacifists, for them the very thing ... and the main thing is prepayment

[Ushly_bashkort]

And what for Europeans this karamultuk? Judging by the video, they even managed to reduce the performance characteristics of Kalash to squeak level

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Black

Let the Ukrainian machine "Malyuk" buy

Does he know how to shoot, or just for fear? I would not have laughed if I had not been holding the "famous" M-16 in my hands. Kalashnikov - for all time.

[Orionvit]

That's for sure. All these widely publicized high-precision and high-tech Western models of small arms are only good at a parade, or in extreme cases in a fleeting special. operations. In a real war, where reliability, manufacturability and simplicity come first, better than Kalashnikov, they haven’t come up with anything yet.

[dokusib]

Let the Ukrainian snaperka "Hopak" be bought.

[marshes]

It is good to have several PRIVATE manufacturers of small arms, although tenders for frequent bribes are not without bribes, but the state can purchase high-quality weapons at a minimum price.

[avt]

Quote: marshes

It is good to have several PRIVATE manufacturers of small arms, although tenders for frequent bribes are not without bribes, but the state can purchase high-quality weapons at a minimum price.

What are you about !?? About contests and serial production in the USSR ??? And then there was a real plus - it was possible to transfer the most successful units from different designs without fancies to someone who came out on top with a proposal to eliminate the deficiencies identified during the tests.

Quote: Koresh

I’m still waiting for the Britons to abandon their L86, although the American lobby is stronger there.

Yeah, such a lobby that actually shaved Heckler und Koch brought it to mind. By the way, I didn’t understand, well, if

KSK are going to change G36 to HK416, and this thing will be called G26

then why in the article

While the company "Heckler & Koch" managed to win a tender for the sale of automatic rifles HK416 (G36) in France

[marshes]

Quote: avt

What are you about !?? About contests and serial production in the USSR ??? And then there was a real plus - it was possible to transfer the most successful units from different designs without fancies to someone who came out on top with a proposal to eliminate the deficiencies identified during the tests.

Well, there were not a few undercover games there, the Lenin Prize in a compartment with the order was not a few who wanted to receive.

Quote: avt

Yeah, such a lobby that actually shaved Heckler und Koch brought it to mind.

I wanted to write the same thing about it. By the way, the Spetshel Air Service mainly uses American weapons, now they are switching to the HK-417.

[avt]

Quote: marshes

Hurriedly Air Service mainly uses American weapons; now they are switching to HK-417.

Yes, with a carbine based on the M-16.
So the Germans did this unit as a result of the adventures of "common people" in Afghanistan, well, the competition was announced, and with the requirement to accept and "eat" from stores from AK . But I don’t remember what exactly the USY chose, it seems like they chose from three.

[marshes]

Quote: avt

So the Germans did this unit as a result of the adventures of "common people" in Afghanistan, well, a competition was announced, and with the requirement to accept and "eat" from AK stores. But I don’t remember what exactly USY chose, there seemed to be chosen from three.

Only Italian Beretta ARX-160,7.62x39 eats shops from AK. It is done in a modular way, transferring to a 5,56 × 45 mm cartridge does not take a lot of time. By the way, it already exists in caliber-5.45x39 and 6.8x43 to the extreme cartridge you need to take a closer look. Yes, remember 6.5x42.

[Koresh]

I think HK416 will win the competition. She defeated France as well as her manufacturer, and perhaps soon the Hekler and Koch rifle will be in service with most of the advanced armies of Europe, I still expect the Britons to abandon their L86 even though the American lobby is stronger there. However, a good rifle.

[voyaka uh]

The most interesting was the XM8.
He won all the reliability tests.
Why not go?

[Operator]

The price of this miracle bit against the background of competitors with equal functionality.

[Koresh]

The American lobby is why. Colt is still therefore in service, FN SCAR is accepted only in special forces.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: voyaka uh

The most interesting was the XM8.

And what exactly was he good at? Futuristic view?

[voyaka uh]

He won the comparative test of 4 types of rifles
in conditions of "extreme dustiness". Smallest (by a large margin) number
misfires.

[APASUS]

What is the invention itself ???
Another modernization of the M-16, a problematic machine. It requires serious care and grease, catastrophically afraid of dust and dirt.

[Scalpel]

Something in Iraq did not particularly complain about the M-16. Since Vietnam, the rifle has been seriously modified. And in terms of resistance to pollution, it has long surpassed AK.

[Varyag86]

Well, this is unlikely

[Operator]

That SG556, that HK416 are the essence of the M16 / M4 clones. They differ from each other only in the material of the receiver - the first steel, the second - duralumin.

Weapons thought completely exhausted in Germany

[marshes]

Quote: Operator

That SG556, that HK416 are the essence of the M16 / M4 clones. They differ from each other only in the material of the receiver - the first steel, the second - duralumin.

And the gas mechanism? A short stroke piston.

[Operator]

That's right - both German clones differ from the American model by the presence of a short-stroke piston (such as innovation).

Although not, it’s still modular - in the field weapons workshop you can replace barrels of different lengths, as well as magazine racks for different caliber bullets.

Today you shoot 5,56x45 mm, tomorrow 5,45x39 mm, the day after tomorrow 7,62x39 mm - while trunks and other elements you probably carry / carry with you

[marshes]

Quote: Operator

type of innovation

A closer look would not be bad. Although the new models that are now available for the Russian army have automatic equipment with a short piston stroke, this is not much more reliable than with balanced mechanics. I can’t give the name so far, I didn’t follow it, but the automation is like the Dragunov rifle.
By the way, we have a Beretta ARX-160 with a caliber of 7.62 x39, they use it, note good ergonomics and aim shooting at distances up to 400 m, compared with the AK-74.

[Operator]

Again, I agree with you that a short stroke of a gas piston is better than a long one (AK) or none at all (M16 / M4).

But due to the advent of bulletproof ESAPI vests, it is time for all weapon models under low-pulse cartridges to retire. Models under high-pulse cartridges 6x49 and 7,62x51 mm should clearly participate in the competition for a promising automatic machine.

Otherwise, you get a budget cut.

[marshes]

Quote: Operator

But in connection with the advent of bulletproof ESAPI vests, it is time for all weapon models under low-pulse cartridges to retire

We already have such, so far the Ministry of Internal Affairs and special forces.

Quote: Operator

Models under high-pulse cartridges 6x49 and 7,62x51 mm should clearly participate in the competition for a promising automatic machine.
Otherwise, you get a budget cut.

Here I agree with you. But how much will the state get? Although it is possible to start the next transition, first the forces of special operations, etc. ... After all, they somehow left 7.62x39.
In our case, a transition would have been simple at all, in warehouses over a lard of cartridges of 5.45x39 and a cartridge factory is being built, Canada, it is possible to build an armory.

[Operator]

Recently, there was an article at VO about the start of deliveries to the RA special forces of bulletproof vests weighing 6 kg - most likely from boron carbide, as well as ESAPI.

Unfortunately, small-pulse models of small arms and ammunition stocks cannot be helped by them anymore; it’s time to gradually decommission them and deliver them to third world countries, to which ESAPI will reach the least.

[marshes]

Quote: Operator

Recently, there was an article at VO about the start of deliveries to the RA special forces of bulletproof vests weighing 6 kg - most likely from boron carbide, as well as ESAPI.

Yes, I did.

Quote: Operator

Unfortunately, small-pulse models of small arms can no longer help,

Yes, it’s not a problem with the plant, we use the Italians, here the Czechs are spinning well and the Turks can help if something happens with their MKEK MPT-76 Mehmetçik-2, Israel. But the Germans don’t want to sell them, through third countries, we buy N. Zeeland. Although HK passed Zig Zaurtsev, the toad strangled what was not theirs.

[Operator]

Everything that you called is made under low-pulse cartridges.
Wang, in a year you will be filled up with offers to buy any model from the warehouse without quantity limits.

[Alex_59]

Quote: Operator

Models under high-pulse cartridges 6x49 and 7,62x51 mm should clearly participate in the competition for a promising automatic machine.

It is not necessary to return so radically to 7,62x51. There are interesting crafts in the form of Grendel 6,5x38 or Chinese 5,8x42

[Operator]

Grendel 6,5x38 and Chinese 5,8x42 do not penetrate ESAPI body armor.

[rjxtufh]

Quote: Operator

Models under high-pulse cartridges 6x49 and 7,62x51 mm should clearly participate in the competition for a promising automatic machine.

Quote: Operator

Grendel 6,5x38 and Chinese 5,8x42 do not penetrate ESAPI body armor.

Why don’t you write that even armor-piercing bullets of cartridges of 7,62 × 63 mm, 7,62 × 54 mm and 7,62 × 51 mm of NATO do not take them?
Therefore, the conclusion is simple, no one will punch them. And they will hit the soldiers in unprotected places with today's ordinary "little things".

[Alex_59]

Quote: Operator

Grendel 6,5x38 and Chinese 5,8x42 do not penetrate ESAPI body armor.

But not everyone in ESAPI runs around. And yet, it’s interesting, of course, that it doesn’t penetrate, but to look at the person into whom 7,62x54 will fly point-blank without breaking through. It will not break through, it will live. But how many ribs will break and inflict internal bruises or tears? Not before the war, there will probably be a client after such a hit.
Somewhere in the internet there was a video where, in the second Chechen one, our bullet 7,62x54 flew at the end. I didn’t break through. But a couple of ribs are broken and a hematoma on the floor of the belly.

[Operator]

So I'm not talking about everyone, but about the infantry of the Main Enemy (GP).
In addition, many non-governmental organizations in Syria are already very well equipped (I won’t say anything about ESAPI, but the cost of one armored panel in 450 dollars is not an insurmountable obstacle to purchases and supplies from Saudi Arabia or Qatar).

Ceramic panels do not bend from the impact of bullets and do not cause injuries.

Of course, ESAPI, like any defense, has limitations on resistance, but the distance it is penetrated by armor-piercing bullets with a steel core of 7,62x51 / 54mm caliber is only 10 meters. Replacing the core material with tungsten carbide will increase the distance to about 100 meters, which also will not make rifles for the most common calibers an effective infantry weapon.

The most promising in this regard are the Russian 6x49 mm and the American 7,62x67 mm (.300 Winchester Magnum), for which there are already single weapon models - SVK and M2010.

Moreover, the Soviet ICS nomenclature initially had armor-piercing cartridges with a tungsten carbide core, for which the penetration distance of ESAPI is estimated at 200 meters, which corresponds to the army range of firing from small arms.

[Varyag86]

The most interesting thing is that Kalashnikov designed the machine initially with a short piston stroke, but only by increasing the mass due to the piston was able to achieve acceptable reliability.

[marshes]

Quote: Varyag86

The most interesting thing is that Kalashnikov designed the machine initially with a short piston stroke, but only by increasing the mass due to the piston was able to achieve acceptable reliability.

This is probably due to the quality of the produced ammunition.
I have no complaints about the AK; ammunition with expired shelf life is digested or issued in a handicraft way, for example, the tribal zone of the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, they collect old cartridges and put it into circulation again.
But weak at distances from 400-600 m, we compensate for this with the help of the PKK and SVD.

[marshes]

Quote: Operator

Today you shoot 5,56x45 mm, tomorrow 5,45x39 mm, the day after tomorrow 7,62x39 mm - while trunks and other elements you probably carry / carry with you

And as with RMB, you carry the same trunks with you.

[Operator]

The machine gunner is a much more skilled fighter than the machine gunner. Yes, and the latter does not need extra weight, he is already packed with body armor, shops and grenades at the most I can not.

[marshes]

Quote: Operator

than the machine gun. Yes, and the latter does not need extra weight, he is already packed with body armor, shops and grenades at the most I can not.

Yes, instead of GP, I would gladly take a grenade launcher with a drum in the appendage.
In general, it’s not strange that a person quickly gets used to being overweight. Such a creature, a horse will die and a person will drag everything on himself.
It all depends on the preparation, that’s who with the rdvku the men are pretty healthy and hardy.

[Operator]

In the army, especially in draft or, even more abruptly, mobilization, they are guided by a medium-trained and medium-trained fighter, who, unlike you, has limitations in "carrying capacity" both on foot and in combat.

If physically hardy fighters can still be selected for machine-gun crew of a motorized rifle division, then less hardy will obviously go to rank-and-file submachine gunners.

As far as I understood from earlier discussions, the weight of ammunition, weapons and ammunition of a motorized rifle on foot reaches 50 kg, and in a battle from the minimum calculation (excluding the grenade launcher and ammunition to it):
- helmet 1 kg
- unloading 1 kg
- body armor 6-10 kg
- machine with 4 kg shop
- ten stores 6 kg
- hand grenades 2 kg
- first aid kit and water 1 kg
Total from 21 to 25 kg.

If I made a mistake, correct it.

[marshes]

Quote: Operator

In the army, especially in the draft or, even cooler, mobilization, they are guided by the average trained and average trained fighter,

I didn’t study at the RVDVKU, but I came across a follow-up service, I myself from PV.
But surprise, the 1.5 m with a cap fighters at me on a march throw pulled a body and machines from AGS-17, Utes on themselves past the munitions. otherwise it’s a box with zinc, and it weighs 24 kg NET, if memory serves me. Yes, the guys were from the countryside, they taught me how to saddle a horse, previously partially able summer vacations in the aul.
But their endurance strikes them, these are not city boys, although you already have 70% seem to live in cities, we have 50 to 50. Yes, in the service, mostly from Aul, you won’t be ruffled. There is a chance to get into people, and it’s a shame to be in front of neighbors and relatives if you mow from the army.

[Operator]

In the process of mobilization, the marching mouths of the fighters will not have time to raise the level of physical endurance.

[Varyag86]

The machine gunner drags barrels to ensure a high density of fire, and do not wait until the barrel cools down after 250 (at RMB) shots

[Lazy ozzy]

Quote: Operator

That SG556, that HK416 are the essence of the M16 / M4 clones. They differ from each other only in the material of the receiver - the first steel, the second - duralumin.

Weapons thought completely exhausted in Germany

In the photo, most likely SG516, but this does not change the essence. As the manufacturer writes - "The Fulfilled Potential Of The AR-15 / M16" - made on the basis of the AP15 / M16 (free translation, mine). Accordingly, the question arises - "what for goat accordion?"

[multiply]

two years at the border and two Chech.voyna with Kalash, the best weapon for a soldier !!!!!

[russkyvoin]

Quote: multipulti

two years at the border and two Chech.voyna with Kalash, the best weapon for a soldier !!!!!

Of course, but only for an 18-year-old fighter and in the case of a draft army, for a professional army you need a more accurate small arms.

[multiply]

in a war, big, you can’t arm everyone with precise weapons, so AK and AKM are the best !!!

[tracer]

Eh .. SIG 556 shot from him .. a very accurate rifle. Vertex Viper Sight 6-24. A PMC 5.56 cartridge for a hundred yards. Accuracy WITHOUT TENSION ABOUT HALF A INCH. And stably issued independent barrel warming. I didn’t shoot in line with the sports version. The short stroke of the piston works just fine. Not a single skew or delay. About five hundred rounds were fired at a time. It works great. This is perhaps the only rifle on the topic that I would put next to AKMS 74. Yes, it is more accurate than AKMS. But, many NPs understand that AKMS is designed to defeat enemy infantry of a certain size. At the most effective distance for this caliber. Which of the more accurate is SIG? This theoretically gives an increase in the maximum range of the target’s destruction. But this range is limited by cartridge efficiency. And all ..... the circle closed. So do not fucking confuse sports weapons and military.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: tracer

But, many NPs understand that AKMS is designed to defeat enemy infantry of a certain size. At the most effective distance for this caliber. Which of the more accurate is SIG? This theoretically gives an increase in the maximum range of the target’s destruction. But this range is limited by cartridge efficiency. And all ..... the circle closed. So do not fucking confuse sports weapons and military.

I agree with your assessment.
Weapon accuracy never hurts. Which is due to the fact that the AKM AK-74 is designed for infantry defeat.
In modern combat, the infantry does not rush at you forehead, they act from shelters / ambushes or short dashes.
There is a need to hit a very limited target from 500 meters - the head one, for example. With the AK-74, this is very problematic with an open sight - the consumption will be 10-15 rounds, and with a strong crosswind - a rare fighter will get (by accident).
AR-15 M-4 HK-416 allows you to solve this fire problem, without hitching additional sights.
Accuracy in modern combat is an important factor determining the effectiveness of weapons, as well as reliability.
I would like to have a heavier barrel on the AK-74, a stiffer receiver, recoil compensator, and at least a collimator sight would be nice with a 2-3x magnification.

[Varyag86]

Do not call out, will you see your head at 500m with the naked eye?
Half of the complaints about the accuracy of the Kalash lies in the accuracy of the cartridge used.
All complaints about the AK is firing automatic fire from erratic positions.
Therefore, they dance around balanced and wilderness patterns.
Therefore, there is an installation on a frequent single fire.

[maximka]

Of course, I can’t get past such inaccuracies on the part of the author of this article. As for the defects in the assault rifle identified by the German military in Afghanistan, it was not about the NK 416, but about the combined arms G 36 which was being withdrawn from the arsenal of the German Army. Heckler and koch has a criminal case. The NK 416 rifle is recognized today as the best rifle for the army, special services and the civilian market, although it is one of the most expensive. Today, almost all special services and special units of the world are armed with the NK 416 rifle in the USA, in NATO and even the Russian unit Alpha purchased the NK 417 in the 7.62x51 version

[maximka]

Photo by Konstantin Lazarev (FSB Alpha)

[maximka]

Photo by Konstantin Lazarev (FSB Alpha)

[maximka]

Photo by Konstantin Lazarev (FSB Alpha)

[maximka]

Photo by Konstantin Lazarev (FSB Alpha)

[Operator]

A photo of "Alpha" with clones of M16 is a shame for the entire domestic arms industry.
Concern "Kalashnikov" fell below the plinth

[maximka]

Thanks to these attacks on the domestic arms industry from the special departments in the military-industrial complex, personnel reshuffles of Tolstozhopy worthless officials began, doing everything possible on their part to restrain the development of the domestic military-industrial complex. Today, after this personnel cleanup, modern production lines began to appear and new items began to bother our "western partners" in earnest, and Concern-K broke into world leaders with a record profit!

[basmach]

I am always finished off by "smart" thoughts that a professional army needs a super-duper fancy rifle, no matter how reliable it is. And what, unlike a conscript, a professional fights in ideal conditions, without dust, dirt, puddles, etc. .. Or in battle, he somehow protects her from all this in a special way. Or maybe we will recall the statistics that the main losses are due to shrapnel wounds, and about 5000 rounds are needed to disable one soldier. Somehow I came across the memories of an officer from Afgan. They came across a caravan, the conditions were perfect - they attacked the sleeping people in the hollow, shooting like a shooting range. The result was almost 100 cartridges per one killed. The weapon for the infantry is the most reliable, simple, lethal and moderately accurate up to 300-400m.

[Operator]

It’s good when you are at war with slippers, but the Russian army is primarily intended to combat the high-tech aggressor, which I cannot pack into bulletproof bulletproof vests and equipped with large-caliber (.338 and .500) sniper rifles.

[rasputin17]

[thumb] https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2016-11/1

479317441_1479305114_1.jpg [/ thumb]

A piece of biohumus for a tolerant Bundesfer!

[VDV1985]

I do not think that the Germans can accept a rifle based on AR automation. SIG Sauer has an excellent 550th series - I think it will be considered first. By the way, and with accuracy she is all right.

[VDV1985]

And I also want a few words about the accuracy, about which "Wilhelm Tell's grand-nephews" are crying here :))) Actually, in order not to be branded as a balabol, one should provide them with at least some data, such as:
1. At what distance accuracy is required, and what should it be (dispersion diameter when shooting single and bursts)
2. In comparison with what and in what units, concern is expressed about the accuracy of the Kalash
3. And the most important question - did the sniper shoot at least from Kalash? I am afraid no :)))
According to personal experience - at the shooting range, standard shooting at 3 different targets with 12 rounds. It was enough for me to put 5-6 targets :))) I confess, helped the shooting neighbors. Hence the question - what kind of accuracy is it necessary for unfortunate warriors to shoot not in the dash, but in the field, rolling under fire :) I’m afraid that in such conditions the accuracy of the Kalash will be beyond anyone’s eyes - all that’s left is to rely on its reliability, which gets dirt when crawling cancer in the mud will not jam the machine

[Atheist 13]

The AK74 has a vertical excess from the STP, with a P3 sight of 300 meters 18 cm, it is quite possible to fire at head targets, what accuracy is still needed, a squirrel in the eye or something?

[DimerVladimer]

confirm

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: VDV1985

And I also want a few words about the accuracy, about which "Wilhelm Tell's grand-nephews" are crying here :))) Actually, in order not to be branded as a balabol, one should provide them with at least some data, such as:
1. At what distance accuracy is required, and what should it be (dispersion diameter when shooting single and bursts)
2. In comparison with what and in what units, concern is expressed about the accuracy of the Kalash
3. And the most important question - did the sniper shoot at least from Kalash? I am afraid no :)))
According to personal experience - at the shooting range, standard shooting at 3 different targets with 12 rounds. It was enough for me to put 5-6 targets :))) I confess, helped the shooting neighbors. Hence the question - what kind of accuracy is it necessary for unfortunate warriors to shoot not in the dash, but in the field, rolling under fire :) I’m afraid that in such conditions the accuracy of the Kalash will be beyond anyone’s eyes - all that’s left is to rely on its reliability, which gets dirt when crawling cancer in the mud will not jam the machine

He also helped "children of the mountains" on the shooting range.

The basic target setting involves a set of chest / growth targets from 50 to 150 meters - only a blind person or a guy from the village who doesn’t put it on his shoulder or pinches under his arm (there were such in the company) will not get into them.
Personally, I worked out more complex tasks with the AK-74, at a distance of 300-350 m.
At such a distance from an open sight, it is very difficult to get into the head of a hidden target (for example, only part of the head is visible from the shelter).
From 500 meters - it’s very difficult to get into the head, not having 3-5 times the optics. The dispersion of the AK-74 at this distance already exceeds the size of the head (target) - I had a fresh, not shot barrel - less than 2000 shots, carefully shot from the machine.
With rifles of the M-16 AR-15 M-4 HK-416/417 series, this task can be solved on a "cold" barrel.

Therefore, a potential adversary has an advantage at a distance of 350 to 600 meters.

[voyaka uh]

Now 4x optics is the standard of any NATO infantryman or IDF.
There is no need to fire bursts of personal weapons.
Any mediocre soldier with optics will drive the first bullet into the main target
meters from 300.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: voyaka uh

Now 4x optics is the standard of any NATO infantryman or IDF.
There is no need to fire bursts of personal weapons.
Any mediocre soldier with optics will drive the first bullet into the main target
meters from 300.

For 4-fold optics - this is a matter of supply, a professional army should be well equipped.
When it comes to shooting in bursts, you are wrong; a rapidly moving target is "knocked down" with a burst of 3-5 shots - a noticeable lack of practice.

Mediocre soldier - I don’t know the concept.
There is a trained shooter - shooting at least 1000 rounds per week. For a shooter with a similar shot, from 300 m to the head with a 3-5-fold sight - not a problem. With an open sight - a question.

[voyaka uh]

"a rapidly moving target is" knocked down "with a burst of 3-5 shots
- noticeable lack of practice "///

I just do not have any theory - but I had a long practice.
People who were moving fast were often shot lonely. M-16
quite allowed to keep a high pace. At the same time, precious cartridges
personal weapons were spent less than from a machine gun for 5-7 rounds.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: voyaka uh

I just do not have any theory - but I had a long practice.

You and I had different practices on different trunks.

I will not argue.
I’ll only add that the situation determines how to shoot: somewhere there is a margin of time to work alone, and somewhere the target will not wait and after the first inaccurate shot will leave for cover.
Perhaps you worked with PBS or the situation allowed to frolic solitary ...

[Operator]

You and the accurate (heap) shooting of hand-held small arms of the motorized rifle squad are completely different things.

The specified weapon must shoot closely in the hands of a mid-trained fighter of a linear motorized rifle unit. Instructors and special forces are not included in this category from the word at all.

[VDV1985]

Dear, the target situation I described implies that there are three targets - chest, machine gun, and growth. and the distance - from 150 to 350 m. For information - at 50 meters for AK there are no shooting exercises at all.

[Thompson]

Purely M16. What, the owners are no longer allowed to do their developments?

[esaul1950]

Quote: GSH-18

Quote: STARPER

Beautiful automatic of course, but against our Kalash he is far away (I mean reliability and simplicity)

Like Kalash to the latest models of automatic small arms.

Are you an "expert" in small arms? How many of you such "couch" omniscient "experts" have divorced.

[tracer]

You take very small. "Old man" is ubiquitous .... and everywhere the same expert!

[esaul1950]

Quote: VDV1985

And I also want a few words about the accuracy, about which "Wilhelm Tell's grand-nephews" are crying here :))) Actually, in order not to be branded as a balabol, one should provide them with at least some data, such as:
1. At what distance accuracy is required, and what should it be (dispersion diameter when shooting single and bursts)
2. In comparison with what and in what units, concern is expressed about the accuracy of the Kalash
3. And the most important question - did the sniper shoot at least from Kalash? I am afraid no :)))
According to personal experience - at the shooting range, standard shooting at 3 different targets with 12 rounds. It was enough for me to put 5-6 targets :))) I confess, helped the shooting neighbors. Hence the question - what kind of accuracy is it necessary for unfortunate warriors to shoot not in the dash, but in the field, rolling under fire :) I’m afraid that in such conditions the accuracy of the Kalash will be beyond anyone’s eyes - all that’s left is to rely on its reliability, which gets dirt when crawling cancer in the mud will not jam the machine

SPECIAL words. I respect

[Operator]

Ftopku specialists, let them shoot what they want, at least from the three-ruler

We are talking exclusively about hand-held small arms of linear motorized rifle units, equipped with secondary trained fighters.

[Damir]

well ... AK-12 and AEK-971 ... and Sieg Sauer is a Swiss company ...

[Bradypodidae]

It looks like someone is deliberately destroying the German school of small arms. Wangyu !!!!! The future "Leopard-3" is "Abrams" with crosses on the tower.

[tracer]

Let's not worry too much about the "school". Let the pedotanks work out.

[Wolka]

without going into the technical specifications, go away (the revised version of the same M-16 (AR-15), I am more and more confused by the external body kit for external auxiliary equipment for aiming and mounted weapons (grenade launcher, etc.), it all pains for the terrain and equipment, while dragging dirt, for me it’s so much dearer to licked outlines into weapons, without angular shapes

[uskrabut]

It seemed to me or is this really a relative of the M-16. It’s embarrassing that push button for jammed cartridges

[Evil 55]

It is strange that the Germans, with their deep historical weapons traditions and high production technologies of the rifle, are trying to create clones of the American "lame duck" M-16 .. The Reich and the nation are getting smaller ..

[DimerVladimer]

Unlike the French, the German military considers the HK416 rifle unsuccessful, including due to inaccurate shooting. The head of the German Ministry of Defense Ursula von der Leyen last year decided to remove it from service, starting in 2019.

- What nonsense!

HK416A5 is considered almost a standard of reliability and accuracy. Hydraulic compensator softens recoil and improves firing accuracy, low weight, aluminum alloy receiver, redesigned gas mechanism (with a short stroke), a chrome-plated cold forged cantilever hanging barrel with a life of up to 20000 shots.
"Today, the HK416 rifle is rightly considered one of the best weapons of the present time and is successfully operated in many countries of the world, such as Armenia, Indonesia, Italy, France, Turkey and, of course, the United States. Rifles have also participated in such military conflicts as the war in Afghanistan, the Iraqi war and the Tuareg uprising, and the US Navy SEAL team used the HK416 during the operation to destroy Osama bin Laden ... "
.http: //militaryarms.ru/oruzhie/vintovki/hk416/

[Operator]

All models of small arms with a gas vent, by definition, do not have a cantilever-hung barrel (advertising slogan, no more), because a gas vent tube and piston hang on the barrel.

What is the NK416 hydraulic recoil compensator?

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: Operator

All models of small arms with a gas vent, by definition, do not have a cantilever-hung barrel (advertising slogan, no more), because a gas vent tube and piston hang on the barrel.

Structurally - does not hang.
I would not refuse such a hung trunk, and even heavier.
While in Kalash, both the barrel and the frame oscillate with a high frequency after firing due to large bending loads and low stiffness.

[Operator]

I apologize - this figurative comparison "hangs", in reality, of course, it is based. The NK416 has a slightly better situation than the AK, the barrel of which is still in contact with the forend, ramrod and gas pipe.

A fully-hung barrel is found only in bolts, such a barrel oscillates freely during the passage of a bullet, and the amplitude of the vibrations can be calculated so that the muzzle at the moment of exit of the bullet is located exactly on the construction axis of the barrel.

This eliminates the spread of bullets during firing.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: Operator

What is the NK416 hydraulic recoil compensator?

This is what "sticks out" from the butt plate of the receiver, a hydraulic recoil compensator, the M-4 also has) - it softens the bolt impact - a very useful design.
Reduces the barrel toss, promotes quick re-aiming - increases the practical (aiming) rate of fire 2-3 times.

[Operator]

The M16 and M4 have a hollow cylinder attached to the back of the receiver, in which a return spring and a mechanical shock absorber are placed telescopically.

Where can I see the NK416 hydraulic recoil compensator?

[PROXOR]

Whatever weapons are accurate, stable, and so on, a fundamental fact remains unchanged. Need reliability. And I would rather go into battle with AKM than these 516zigzaureom or worse M4 Colt

[Alex1977RUS]

Quote: rjxtufh

Quote: VikVik741

What about the MG-42?

What about him? He died in 1945. without leaving heirs.
And, if that, do not about the post-war MG1. He has only some constructive and external similarities with MG42. And so, these weapons are of a completely different class.

Eeeee .... But nothing, that this one is MG-1 which has only some constructive and external similarity
was reassigned to 7,62 × 51 mm MG 42?
I just have a cognitive dissonance ... That is, while he was shooting 7,92 × 57 mm fought on the eastern and western fronts, he was one weapon, and when after the war he was added to the arsenal, he was replaced with a barrel with a chamber for 7,62 × 51, and slightly the tape feed mechanism, under a different geometry of the sleeve, so it immediately began to have only "some structural and external similarity"?
And what good is the MP-40 itself? Absolutely shitty fuse?
Do not hachi what high resistance to pollution? Filthy ballistics?
Then Mauser K-96, this is a classic.
And yet, by the way, the Bundeswehr has never made weapons, since such a professional, so well versed in machine guns, should know this. The Bundeswehr is the army of Germany, and just as the Russian army does not make Kalashnikovs, but buys them at the factory, so the Bundeswehr bought weapons. And technically, if you really find fault, then not the Bundeswehr, but Wermarcht ... MG Mauserver did. A MP40 ERMA and STEER.
In general, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels are not husband and wife, but four completely different people ...
What is the way FN FAL does not suit, eternal and reliable, like Kalash? Well, besides, what is Belgian?