Military Review

Paid education in Russia: “for” and “against”

180
Paid education in Russia: “for” and “against”



Our citizens, who received the best education in the world, “charged” cans of water from the TV with Kashpirovsky, after which they took all the savings to MMM. More eloquent examples are difficult to name. Probably, Heraclitus was right: "Multiple knowledge does not teach the mind."

They say that the USE is to blame for everything. I appeal to everyone who was handed a certificate long before the introduction of the Unified State Exam.

Question about stories. Name at least one figure from the sixteenth century.

Maths. What is the function? Her concept in a nutshell.

Physics. The first law of thermodynamics. Formulation and physical. meaning.

In. lang "Yes, ah Daz"!

To all the questions: “A? Uh-uh ... ”Then let me find out what you have been doing 10 for years at school, and then for five long years in university lecture halls? Questions can be changed, but the essence of the answers will remain unchanged.

In principle, this is a personal matter for everyone, but for some reason the state spent billions on the education system. And if at the output every time it turns out Kashpirovsky and “independent”, then, probably, it is worth changing something to improve the overall efficiency of the education system. For in the present form the result is obvious.

“Education at any level should be free. "Elite" schools should not be, because from birth all people are equal ... "Elite" schools disfigure the very idea of ​​education, divide children into "elite" and others, into the elect and not. The upper level of education should not be determined by the thickness of the wallet, but by the person himself, depending on his abilities and diligence. ” (From the article “Modern High School. Teacher's Notes”, published on the “VO” 28 July 2016 of the Year.)

"Should be free ..." Ha!

Yes, any schoolboy knows that chocolate and iPhone cost money, and a lesson in mathematics does not cost anything, you can safely walk it. Or sit on the "gallery", flapping ears. All that is free has no value. Such is human nature, the “Manilovian dreams” will be left on the conscience of idealists.

Do not worry, a burst of indignation will be triggered by those who have long received their diplomas and settled in life. Students themselves will perceive this fact as ordinary. Those, those who want to enter the faculty of their dreams have long been accustomed to extracurricular activities, preparatory courses and tutors. Without all this, you can safely forget about entering the budget in a leading university. Too great competition. There are many talents in Russia.

Those who want to quickly finish the “vomiting” will accept this thought with relief. Anyone who has become uninteresting in school will get a real chance to stop torturing themselves, teachers and parents.

Money does not decide everything

Remember the old truth: talent needs support, mediocrity crawls through itself. Schoolchildren do not need some abstract "houses of creativity" and "circles" (certainly free), in which no one will go anyway. Modern students need scientific forums and Olympiads. With non-illusory bonuses in the form of grants for admission to the leading universities of the country. With the organization of excursions and summer "internships" at research centers, research institutes and research and production associations - for the best of the best, who have shown outstanding abilities in selected areas: fundamental physics, chemistry, biotechnology ... With the possibility of continuing education in specialized elite schools for promising . As an example - Chelyabinsk Mathematical Lyceum №31, repeatedly rattling the whole world.

Olympiad - the best way to identify worthy. On the other hand, it is the most effective motivator for all who have at least a drop of interest in learning. These competitions should not look like an ordinary school test. Scientific projects, the results of experiments and small discoveries made by schoolchildren themselves with the assistance of their scientific leaders have the greatest return. And it is naive to believe that preparing for participation in such projects will not require expenditure of effort, time and money from students and their parents.

21-22 July in Moscow hosted a forum of the Agency for Strategic Initiatives. Schoolchildren presented their developments on a par with adult scientists. Pupils of the Khimki Lyceum No. 15 created an educational model of a “robot boxer”. “The robot performs all the possible strikes of boxers in the ring: left hook, right hook, uppercut, reversal. He knows how to frighten the enemy with his eyes and make sounds during blows, ”said Oksana Safiullina, a physics teacher.


Powerful competitive element, the system of scientific contests and competitions - the best that is in the national school curriculum. It is necessary to stimulate the interest of teachers, to attract new investors in the form of leading research institutes and schools for gifted children, to support this direction in every way instead of a “swamp” for equals among equals, in which supporters of “free education for everyone” pull us.

Idealists can say anything. For example: "The upper level of education should be determined not by the thickness of the wallet, but by the person himself." In this case, dear, you will get what we have now. A crowd of vendors and consultants with no-use diplomas. For any person will determine his “upper bar of education” not lower than the bachelor's degree. Purely for reasons of prestige.

And to get this degree in our day is easy.





Okay, coursework and diplomas. But for the dissertation purchased should be criminalized. However, this is a topic for another conversation. Why in Russia from 100 thousands of scientists with 80% degrees are “near-scientific plankton”, enjoying the full package of privileges of a researcher with a complete lack of knowledge of the chosen subject and somehow forced thesis on the topic “Turbulent flows in sanitary ware products”?

How to deal with the disastrous trend? How to raise the status of education in the eyes of Russian society?

The obvious way out is to increase the elitism of education. How to achieve the goal? Answer: toughening the requirements for the Unified State Exam results and the certificate for admission to a university (unlike modern realities, when it is enough to demonstrate the minimum amount of knowledge for admission to most specialties under a contract: 30 points for any subject can be dialed randomly by ticking job form). And with a simultaneous increase in tuition fees several times.

As a result, parents of graduates will think three times: is the imaginary “prestige” of those colossal costs worth it? At the same time, such a solution will relieve their children from the incredible suffering in the walls of universities, and numerous retail chains from sellers with engineering degrees.

And notice there is not a word about reducing the existing number of budget places.

"Olga Golodets, Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Government, who oversees a block of social issues, said that for two thirds of the Russian population, higher education is redundant today." (News from 15.07.2016 year.)

The reform of the education system will be highly appreciated by graduates and their future employers. The diploma will cease to be a formal addition to the job interview, and will become the real guarantor of knowledge.

The only one who will meet the initiative "in hostility" is the leadership of the universities. After all, the proposed method contradicts the whole concept of a profitable “business”, into which the entire Russian system of higher education has been turned.

Owners of private high schools, numerous “institutes of innovations and commerce” will be hysterical. Which should have been overclocked for a long time and deprived of licenses as not meeting even the minimum requirements for an educational institution.

Of course, it is necessary to eliminate the correspondence department, which currently serves only as a place for issuing meaningless "crusts" with a complete lack of knowledge of their owners. The author himself, being a teacher, twice a year, with bewilderment, looked at the crowds of tired people clearly not of student age, it is not clear why they poured into the audience of universities. Gentlemen, I understand that it is prestigious to be a manager with an engineering degree, but you must understand that if you don’t have enough time to attend classes daily (at least in the evenings), what kind of higher education can we talk about?

What does the offense, complaints about the family and work? What is a diploma, if you simply do not have the opportunity to gain knowledge? This is as illogical as applying for participation in the marathon, citing lack of legs.

Only without joking about the benefits of self-education and reading textbooks at home. Of those “external students” who I was “lucky enough to take exams for,” there was not even knowledge of the level of the senior classes.

Of course, all this is technical. The key requirement should be to increase the elitism of education. The “top level of education” should be determined not by the person himself, but by the level of his talents and knowledge. The lack of which in some cases can be compensated by big money. There is nothing bad in desires if they are good. But if a student does not demonstrate much success and does not plan to work in his specialty at all, why should the state assume the responsibility and study it?
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  1. kagorta
    kagorta 1 August 2016 06: 11
    -58%
    I am for paid higher education. Budget places, or rather, scholarships should only be for winners of olympiads, school competitions, contests no lower than district, or regional and those specialties in which there is a specialized secondary education and which was completed with honors. Simply, most universities in our country are now almshouses. Where students and professors don’t know what. Here we have an engineering university in our city and professors in it who did not smell production.
    1. kagorta
      kagorta 1 August 2016 06: 37
      -19%
      Okay minusers, in military schools, so be admitted for free. bully And after an urgent in the army, if the commander gives a characteristic.
      1. Cat
        Cat 1 August 2016 07: 25
        +15
        Admission to departmental universities is already "free". Kuisants receive not a scholarship, but a salary, and in which case they are "attracted" to everything good in the direction of their future profession. For example, students in the universities of the Ministry of Emergencies to extinguish forest fires, and the Ministry of Internal Affairs to the protection of public order. In addition, all graduates are required to work for five years in the field of activity. And God forbid, if the vypsknik did not fulfill the terms of the contract and left or was dismissed within the prescribed five years, he will reimburse the cost of training.
        These are the pies with kittens.
        1. Temples
          Temples 1 August 2016 09: 13
          +17
          Alexey Dolganov, who is this?

          Those who want to quickly finish the “vomiting” will take this idea in relief.

          The obvious solution is to increase the elitism of education.


          Teacher? - not! smile

          Maximum - seller of therapeutic leeches!

          This is probably just an envious creature dreaming of money.
          What can this creature teach children ???

          Who will entrust their children to Duremar?

          The upper level of education ”should not be determined by the person himself, but by the level of his talents and knowledge. The absence of which in some cases can make up for big money.


          That's the whole point of this "hack".
          1. Azazel
            Azazel 1 August 2016 10: 18
            +8
            This is probably just an envious creature dreaming of money.
            What can this creature teach children ???

            I completely agree with you .... this article is one of the "first signs" of information processing of the electorate, before the introduction of paid education ....
            what is paid education ?? a system for the production of Mitrofanushki, for whom "knowledge", that is, a diploma, can be bought without really sweating ...
            the author juggles the concepts of "literacy" and "education", corny manipulates in order to push other concepts into privileges to knowledge ... they say, they are useless to the poor, and knowledge should belong to those who can pay ...
            it was necessary to remind AFFTOR that the talents and geniuses for the most part came from a poor environment .... not for nothing the most "fruitful" for Russia (and in the world) were the times of the USSR, with universal free education .... how many scientists, musicians , artists and other great figures of science and art were under the Soviet education system ... how many scientific discoveries were made at that time, how many masterpieces were created at that time ...
            and they try to return us again at the time of Mitrofanushek, when the word DOOR is an adjective !!!!
          2. PHANTOM-AS
            PHANTOM-AS 1 August 2016 10: 22
            +19
            The MINUS article is that little with which I can express my indignation! am
            ------
            Already 25 years old, they deliberately try to throw us into the 19th century and the efforts of the new government are not in vain.
            All the gains of socialism are being destroyed in the bud, practically free medicine has been eliminated, the right to work has been eliminated, in fact, the working day of employees has been increased, we have long forgotten about free housing.
            All our social guarantees and the state’s concern for Man have remained in our glorious socialist past.
            And education, in this sense, undergoes a very special thorough destruction-decomposition.
            After all, the new government needs new serfs-slaves paying dues and taxes without any questions,
            they need to turn the people into a herd of ruminant disenfranchised consumers, which can always be milked for any reason.
            The herd will be looked after by the chain-dogs guards who receive an excellent ration from the new rulers in the person of the successors and the already grown-up and growing children of the new "nobility", unlearned for money stolen from the same herd, in London, Oxford and and Cambridge.
            They will rule!
            A little more time will pass and it seems we will come to a state where the majority of the population will believe that the Earth is flat and keeps on three pillars, while reading prayers for and without it.
            "The tale of the priest and his worker Balda" acquires new relevance.
            Education for the elite and minimal literacy for slaves, with more "bread and circuses" (with an emphasis on circuses) are what awaits us in the near future.
            So how are we going to read "We are not slaves, slaves are not WE" or are slaves slaves already NEM?
            The greatest drama of the utilization of Russian civilization and Russia is entering or has already entered its final stage.
            It’s time to come to your senses, comrades!
            1. Altona
              Altona 1 August 2016 19: 36
              +4
              Quote: PHANTOM-AS
              All the gains of socialism are being destroyed in the bud, practically free medicine has been eliminated, the right to work has been eliminated, in fact, the working day of employees has been increased, we have long forgotten about free housing.

              -------------------------
              The author of the article is sick of "Gaidarism" and considers paid a synonym for elitism or good. Financiers of all stripes advocate for "payment" in our country, because the "payment" goes through banks and it is profitable for them. At the same time, it is normal to pay us, so that we have enough of them to pay, they forget. They immediately go into vague terms - inflation targeting, a planned decrease in the level of income of the population (although for such words under Soviet rule, one could immediately smear the forehead with brilliant green).
              Let the gentlemen commenting explain to me how much of what has become "paid" has become good? It is impossible to eat expensive bread - heartburn, expensive vegetables and fruits have no taste, even expensive shoes are made from leather surrogates (by pressing the trimmings of the tannery). Education in the USSR was not a symbol of elitism, and not everyone enrolled in universities. There is a lot of trouble, and the exhaust is 150 rubles. The worker's profession was more in demand and paid higher. It was prestigious to be a party member, and in a leadership position or a trade unionist. And education simply had to be attached, but it could also be obtained at the "school" of the party activists, at a specialized faculty of a humanitarian university. So do not confuse soft and warm.
              PS And as for the profession of an engineer, I joke that a businessman can go fishing during the week and receive income. And the engineer needs to learn new programs, monitor the Internet in search of knowledge, and the income is one fig 20-25 tyr per month. That's it.
            2. Ermak
              Ermak 2 August 2016 04: 49
              +3
              PHANTOM-AS (4) RU Yesterday, 10:22 ↑ New
              The MINUS article is that little with which I can express my indignation! am
              ------
              Already 25 years old, they deliberately try to throw us into the 19th century and the efforts of the new government are not in vain.

              The author reveals the cards. And he’s not afraid, the obvious connection between his words and that policy in our education is visible. What is it? Maybe the American lobby? Nazi Hitler, through whose fault most of the world suffered, began precisely with education. He knew that these children would be his support. That was until the end of the war. Today, those who are drawn to our children, wanting to deprive them of a chance to learn their favorite profession, are also harboring plans for Russia. One of the wonderful freedoms of the USSR consisted in the ability of a person to realize himself at any stage of his life, and life itself made the selection - it was not fit.
              The author’s fantasy is that he imagines himself Kashpirovsky, having decided to weed out objectionable dances by shamanistic dances, deliberately missing the Einstein phrase — it is human nature to make mistakes. I’ll add on my own, but it’s doubly characteristic of children. And not all children are able to make the right decision for themselves for life, but this did not stop famous people from appearing. The author deliberately overlooks the main task of society - which person we want to educate and for which society. For under certain tasks a person is brought up, and they determine the set of characteristics that he should possess. Yes, a Soviet man was brought up for certain tasks, many of his ideas were idealized, since it was assumed that the state should have a protective function in relation to its citizens. The author proposes to break everything that remains of the great ship called the USSR, while it does not indicate how I wrote above the main task of society in education. Therefore, it is a provocateur and saboteur. He wants to destroy, offers tools, speaks in general phrases without specifics
              How to deal with the disastrous trend? How to raise the status of education in the eyes of Russian society?
              no purpose, for what, why.
              Offers its own exam
              Question on history. Name at least one figure from the sixteenth century.

              Maths. What is the function? Her concept in a nutshell.

              Physics. The first law of thermodynamics. Formulation and physical. meaning.

              In. lang "Yes, ah Daz"!

              To all questions: “Ah? Uh ... "


              Who did not answer those to the fire did not pass.
              And he is silent (or does not know) about the existence of probability theory, by the way from the course of the Higher School. It is impossible to determine the unmistakably accurate number of those geniuses who will benefit the world in any way, and it makes no sense. He cites Kashpirovsky as an example on purpose, but education and naivety in life do not contradict each other. But the likelihood that it will be more useful people for society (from the same probability theory) will increase, if the total number of educated people is greater and this is unique. Which, incidentally, was politics in the formation of the USSR. And today, on a pedestal, a coin, the author suggests making the goal of a child’s life not to create, but to live for money.
          3. iConst
            iConst 1 August 2016 10: 34
            +6
            Quote: Temples
            Alexey Dolganov, who is this?

            Judging by the ideas - a liberal from the cohort where individuals such as Ksyushadi graze.

            This, uh-uh, author denies the experience of the USSR, which "churned out" worthy personnel, and the West looked at them with pleasure.

            One-sided and drawn-in justifications of their (rather not their) "proofs" of the inefficiency of the free education system.
            1. Altona
              Altona 1 August 2016 23: 20
              0
              Quote: iConst
              One-sided and drawn-in justifications of their (rather not their) "proofs" of the inefficiency of the free education system.

              -------------------
              An excellent system if you sometimes move away from the academic desk and go into the workshop for the development of any new product. And if you just wave your crust, then it’s better not to learn.
          4. Stas157
            Stas157 1 August 2016 13: 35
            +6
            . “It must be free ...” Ha!

            Yes, any student knows that chocolate and iPhone cost money, and a math lesson does not cost anything, you can safely skip it.

            No, Ha! If dad pays for the lesson, then, according to the author, it will not be possible to skip it ?? On the contrary! Commerce in education corrupts students and teachers. Some will believe that they have already paid for knowledge (why else to study!), While others will become education sales managers (where to find a fool who will pay me!).
            And, Russia will no longer have Lomonosovs, talented scientists whose parents were not able to pay for their studies.
      2. Esso
        Esso 1 August 2016 07: 48
        +9
        I myself went through this system and saw a lot. The first is school, if the teacher does not like his job and does it poorly (you need to be able to explain and convey information), then the student will not learn, and even more so there will be no desire to go further. , if the director steals from teachers' salaries, and reports go to Moscow that everything is fine with us, mutual responsibility is everywhere, respectively, the teacher will not really want to do his job well. a certain sphere, all secondary educational institutions teach at their own discretion, there is some "glancing" at our ministry headed by Livanov.
        The exam is a separate issue, no Medvedev is not modern and not round, this is a dumb dead end.
        All this was taken from the United States, so that people would not be smart, it’s easier to manage a dumb herd.
        About higher education, the story is different here, I entered the free branch myself in the target direction (we had 5 people to compete separately) I am not an excellent student, they didn’t take my exam, I took internal exams myself, again, they took the exam in Russian language.
        At the institute, I and my people like me have encountered several types of people
        1) Zubrils always teach everything and their whole life, excellent students, but in practice they have problems, since the theory is good, but in practice, unfortunately, it’s not like in textbooks.
        2) Lazy guys whose parents made them go to study, take out 1-2 courses
        3) Golden youth, children of wealthy parents, they either learn somehow (always good grades, there are connections), or not (but parents will help). Then they work with their parents.
        4) All others study either well or medium, work in their specialty
        After graduating from high school, I went to work and connections gradually appeared, I got a job on a higher paying job, etc.
        Teachers teach us the old fashioned way (not all of course, but meet, sometimes according to old textbooks, and new students write sometimes or rewrite old ones. It is not often that one of the professors writes himself. Many teachers have mental problems at the age of half of the teachers in the psychiatric hospital accounting consists of. And young people do not go for a small salary, or as a tick in a personal matter. So after working at the university, you learn the profession again, as if you did not learn anything.
        Conclusion, education should be free and paid. The main thing is affordable. And shouting that everything should be paid, you are not distant people, then we will not have specialists, but those who will be specialists on paper. Oh yes, let's not shout, but in Europe. buggers in Europe as they say!
        1. kagorta
          kagorta 1 August 2016 08: 14
          -3
          This is where the question arises, is it either social security (what is now) or a knowledge system. And knowledge is always elitist. When the Soviet Union began to fall, when the profession of engineer, doctor and teacher ceased to be elitist. And what about these professions now? It should be accessible to talented and capable and whether for those who are willing to sign a contract. For everyone else, it should be expensive and due to these there should be conditions for the talented poor.
          1. ImPerts
            ImPerts 1 August 2016 08: 46
            +6
            There is a good joke:
            "- Do you know why a doctor works for one and a half rates? Because there is nothing for one, but there is no time for two."
            That's how we live. I know people who work for two. As a result:
            Quote: Esso
            Many teachers aged have mental problems, half of them are registered with a psychiatric hospital. And young people don’t go for a small salary, or as a tick in their personal files.
            .
          2. unsinkable
            unsinkable 1 August 2016 18: 48
            0
            Quote: kagorta
            The Soviet Union, when the profession of engineer, doctor and teacher ceased to be elitist. And what about these professions now?

            Why did you get this? Here’s a joke characterizing the * elite * profession of an engineer in the Soviet (not at all bad) times. * Vanya, who does your dad work with? * - the teacher asks. My dad works as a manager of a warehouse in a meat factory. Sit down, Vanya .You are good. Peta, who does your dad work with? Petya proudly: * my dad works as the chief engineer at the largest factory in the city *. All the children: * Ha ha ha! Teacher: * Children, you can’t laugh at someone else’s grief *. It may not be funny. But sad, fact.
      3. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 09: 52
        0
        you can wonder what you graduated from, in which competitions you participated and who you work for ?!
        1. kagorta
          kagorta 1 August 2016 13: 30
          +1
          School in Dnepropetrovsk. Financial and economic. Second place at the Olympiads in geography, history and the German language, though regional. One four in a report card. A silver medal was not given for behavior. It should be prim, but I had only a choir. But the school was so lucky that a bunch of officers' children arrived. We had many victories both at the Olympiads and sports and military-patriotic competitions.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 14: 04
            -1
            but don’t tell me on what basis did you finish financially economic if you do not have olympiads on this topic ?!
            1. kagorta
              kagorta 1 August 2016 16: 10
              0
              I did it myself. And with the Olympics, for example, it was economic geography. And exams at the university were mathematics, the Russian language and social studies.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 17: 01
                +3
                Quote: kagorta
                And with the Olympics, for example, it was economic geography.

                why so - "let's say" ?!
                you read your offer, on it you did not have the right to graduate
                1. kagorta
                  kagorta 1 August 2016 20: 39
                  -1
                  Why I could not get higher)? With knowledge is normal. I went to my university with a passing score of 14 for three exams. And if my admission depended on the Olympiads, I would tear my ass on them. I was hoping more for a silver medal.
                  I thought only social science in Plekhanovka was to be handed over. By the way, I also have a son, and I am saving him money for a normal education.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 21: 06
                    +1
                    Quote: kagorta
                    Why I could not get higher)? With knowledge is normal. I went to my university with a passing score of 14 for three exams


                    Well, you think that this is not tantamount to
                    1. kagorta
                      kagorta 2 August 2016 06: 22
                      -4
                      Vladimir got his questions, more like troll questions. laughing I repeat the last time, I believe that the higher education system is in crisis. And that it needs to be reformed. I believe that higher education should be paid (but not too expensive). At the same time, there should be a system of elevators, it should be state-owned (the state should have a whole system for promoting talented children with tests, identifying abilities and their development) and not state-owned. The number of universities should be reduced. And to raise the prestige of a number of professions, and especially teachers.
                      And I will answer all your subsequent questions immediately. We have capitalism now, forget what happened under socialism. Now some conditions, then there were different. And to deduce me that I enjoyed the benefits of socialism, and now I wouldn’t need all this for me. The conditions are different. I’m thinking about educating my son now (I’m just saving up money, because I know that he should have the best, and I don’t believe that it will be free).
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2016 06: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: kagorta
                        Vladimir got his questions, more like troll questions.

                        as soon as the arguments end, accusations of flood trollism or spelling incorrectly begin by the way questions I didn’t ask
                      2. kagorta
                        kagorta 2 August 2016 07: 46
                        -3
                        Speaking of arguments? Where are yours? Indicate your position.
                    2. CONTROL
                      CONTROL 2 August 2016 09: 27
                      +2
                      Quote: kagorta
                      I believe that higher education should be paid (but not too expensive). At the same time, there should be a system of elevators, it should be state-owned (the state should have a whole system for promoting talented children with tests, identifying abilities and their development) and not state-owned.
                      ... We have capitalism now, forget what happened under socialism. Now some conditions, then there were different. And to deduce me that I enjoyed the benefits of socialism, and now I wouldn’t need all this for me. The conditions are different.

                      You must be able to count!
                      From what .... paid? Medicine is free only for "catastrophes", and even then it is conditional ... (this is if someone in the gateway hits me in the head with a car ...), protection from offenders is paid ... preschool institutions are paid ... Such resources like air and water - how much is paid ... Why ... do I pay taxes to the state? What does IT do for me that I unbuckle so much for?
                      ... and why is medicine conditionally paid in the "capitalist enemy" of Great Britain? Because "THEY are there," capitalist thieves, think and care about the main resource and "minerals" in their country - the people? ... And in our country, THEY - believe that "this garbage" should be thinned out, reduced to 20 30 million population?
                      ------------------
                      ANY ruler and ANY power (whether capitalism, socialism, the monarchy or the totalitarian dictatorship of Un ...) SHOULD understand: the main resource is the population, people! And the higher the quality of this resource: health, education, morale, socio-ethical dominant of society ...
                      Well - then it’s clear ...
                    3. kagorta
                      kagorta 2 August 2016 18: 07
                      -3
                      Go to the UK, but I don’t need to tell tales. You already prosrali your socialism, get used to living under capitalism. Compare what happened in 90 years and what is now. The condition with medicine is much better.
                    4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2016 19: 09
                      +1
                      Quote: kagorta
                      The condition with medicine is much better.

                      Examples
                      Quote: kagorta
                      You already pissed off your socialism

                      I understand that you have no relation to socialism
                    5. kagorta
                      kagorta 3 August 2016 07: 24
                      0
                      About the examples laughing Just for your sake. In my area there are two polyclinics, a nursery, an adult, repaired, an electronic line, an online recording. Everything that is necessary I receive everything, from vaccinations to the necessary examinations. My wife was recently in the hospital. Everything was at a very good level, double board with shower, excellent treatment.
                      Regarding socialism, he was young then to make some decisions.
                      Now my question is, what did you do when the USSR collapsed. You were his protector? No.
      4. CONTROL
        CONTROL 2 August 2016 09: 11
        0
        Quote: kagorta
        I did it myself. And with the Olympics, for example, it was economic geography. And exams at the university were mathematics, the Russian language and social studies.

        ...Yes Yes! Dnepropetrovsk because ...
        ------------
        PS To make it clear: for a long time - and to this day - it was necessary, and it is necessary (alas, not to work ...) to contact "people" from these regions! So - these are aliens! ...
        And - passed before the eyes of at least 3 generations of these "immigrants from the moons of Jupiter" (I'm, alas, old ...); the situation does not change!
        1. kagorta
          kagorta 2 August 2016 18: 00
          -2
          And before that, Zabaykalsk, Moscow and Krivoy Rog. The school in Dnepropetrovsk was the worst by the way).
  2. CONTROL
    CONTROL 2 August 2016 09: 05
    +1
    Quote: kagorta
    School in Dnepropetrovsk.

    ... Ah, in Dnepropetrovsk! ... Then it is clear: both "elitism" and "kagorta" ... and the Olympics ...
    ... the last - I hope, not from "Cahors"? ...
    1. kagorta
      kagorta 2 August 2016 18: 15
      0
      Kagorta, this is my nickname in one game, the cohort was busy and I just got used to it. For all people like you, I would like to inform you that clinging to a nickname on the internet is like clinging to a name, that is, it is cultureless and, let's say, not much "naive". winked
      I forgot to say that I am a Belarusian by nationality and only for you a connoisseur of Cahors ...
      http://www.skarnik.by/rusbel/32147
  • unsinkable
    unsinkable 1 August 2016 18: 49
    0
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    you can wonder what you graduated from, in which competitions you participated and who you work for ?!

    Colleagues, I think the question is logical. Why are you minus? hi
    1. CONTROL
      CONTROL 2 August 2016 09: 32
      +1
      Quote: unsinkable
      Colleagues, I think the question is logical. Why are you minus? hi

      ... a convinced stubborn kurkul - "the support and resource" of the capitalist society of "absolute freedom" and "the power of money circulation around itself ..."
      ... What, it is difficult to discern a kulak ideology?
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2016 12: 31
        0
        are you talking about?
  • MrK
    MrK 1 August 2016 12: 28
    +5
    And in parallel with paid education to return the so-called law on cook children. Here is an excerpt:
    "...subject to strict observance of this rule, the gymnasium and gymnasium will be freed from the entry of children of peasants, workers, coachmen, footmen, cooks, laundries, cooks, small shopkeepers and the like, into them, whom should be read and should not be taken out of the environment to which they belong».
    And there will come complete liberal democracy for fat wallets. Moreover, so many teachers and university professors are not needed. What the Ministry of Education stated today.
    1. CONTROL
      CONTROL 2 August 2016 09: 35
      0
      [quote = мрАРК]And in parallel with paid education to return the so-called Cooking Children Act. Here is an excerpt:
      "...subject to strict observance of this rule, the gymnasium and gymnasium will be freed from the entry of children of peasants, workers, coachmen, footmen, cooks, laundries, cooks, small shopkeepers and the like, into them, whom should be read and should not be taken out of the environment to which they belong».
      And there will come complete liberal democracy for fat wallets. Moreover, so many teachers and university professors are not needed. What the Ministry of Education stated today.
      /[Quote]
      On what, in particular, the Russian Empire "burned"!
      ... on the same rake!
  • Hon
    Hon 1 August 2016 12: 49
    +2
    Quote: kagorta
    Okay minusers, in military schools, so be admitted for free. And after an urgent in the army, if the commander gives a characteristic.

    OK. Pedagogical university salaries are small, there are a lot of nerves. pay for study? most likely the choice will fall on another profession.
    Narrow-scientific specialties, physicists, chemists, biologists, etc. after graduation, at the beginning a very modest income, and then not millions in most cases. here, too, paid tuition will scare away those who wish.
    Engineers basically leveled the situation, and salaries are more or less decent
    Lawyers, economists, managers and others are overwhelmingly studying on a paid basis.
    Let’s introduce paid education for all and remain without specialists, and then we will invite them from abroad
  • atalef
    atalef 1 August 2016 07: 18
    +9
    Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian government Olga Golodets, who oversees the block of social issues, said that for two-thirds of the population of Russia, higher education is today excessive

    Actually, she’s right, she simply inserted into the quote - the population of Russia. and this is like a red rag for many.
    I think the same. that higher education should not be accessible and simple.
    You yourself see what it has turned into. Hundreds of thousands of students receive ANYONE (and they themselves) do not need the profession. more precisely, the level of education 9 on paper) that does not meet the requirements of the market.
    The market for technicians and just clerks - requires engineers. and why not? engineers then the sea.
    Parents and children are driven into an incomprehensible marathon of acquiring (for money, of course) nobody needs crusts and degrees. The number of universities and institutes has grown to such an extent that if you have not graduated from a super prestigious university, then consider that you have not finished anything.
    Against this background, budget funding for all is not enough and the budget is simply eroded to no avail. not giving universities the opportunity to develop their own bases, so they begin to recruit for a fee any rabble further undermining the value of higher education.
    So we see the result of 24-year-old blondes with 3 me working as higher education waitresses.
    The tower in modern conditions has turned into a machine for pumping out state and parental money for useless * specialists.
    The number of universities should be reduced, the criteria for admission to be complicated at times, the budget - only for students who have studied at school or winners of olympiads,
    I’m sure that a third of the population will not reach these criteria for obvious reasons, and this is normal.
    For some reason, everyone has forgotten about the value of vocational schools and technical schools - and a huge number of people can successfully occupy this niche. increasing the value of both the profession and education at this level.
    What do we have now?
    Vocational schools and technical schools - sucks (this is understandable the tower for the headstock can be obtained in any gateway). and nobody needs a tower in this form.
    As a result, the parents paid grandmothers, the state did the same - and there’s no money at the end.
    This system needs to be changed.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 1 August 2016 07: 42
      +8
      This immediately came to mind:

      Upon admission to universities, knowledge should be decisive, not the size of the wallet.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 1 August 2016 07: 47
        +11
        Quote: atalef
        The number of universities should be reduced

        In Japan, the highest universal and nothing more - the most advanced technology there.
        The creation of the Novosibirsk town, Silicon Valley - is due to the fact that the higher the general level of education of others, the more significant the results. This was clear even during the creation of "sharashki".

        Quote: atalef
        Vocational schools and technical schools - sucks

        After we no longer have this "sludge" - we have no one to plow the land and build houses.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 1 August 2016 08: 17
          +2
          Hello Boris! hi
          Quote: Boris55
          In Japan, the highest universal and nothing more - the most advanced technology there.
          So it is there not only financial and legal. And our technical education has been successfully poher, and that’s why they are supported by finance-credit and jurisprudence.
          Quote: Boris55
          After we no longer have this "sludge" - we have no one to plow the land and build houses.

          good
    2. dauria
      dauria 1 August 2016 07: 50
      +6
      The number of universities should be reduced, the criteria for admission to be complicated at times, the budget - only for students who have studied at school or winners of olympiads,


      Well, here ... And you are in the same place as the author. All the same, both have a bit of a budget, and the rest is very paid and expensive. Yes, that's right, the number of universities must be reduced and the admission bar raised higher. But how do you combine such a miracle - it is very expensive to pay and, at the same time, make you pass the entrance exam and current exams at a "high bar"?

      This Abramovich-Lomonosov should be in one bottle. (and the whole stream)
    3. Tusv
      Tusv 1 August 2016 08: 15
      0
      Quote: atalef
      So we see the result of 24-year-old blondes with 3 higher educations working waitresses

      Well so it is clear. Everyone needs 18 year old girls with 30 work experience, two children and two higher education.
      According to the text. The mechanic himself is a technologist and architect, I work as a programmer. It happens. Now there is a 2-step system. My son studied for one bachelor's degree, this year he graduated from another magistracy at a university that is in the top three and free of charge. Will find a job. A trifle, did the same for the budget this year.
      So, I do not have to blame our system. Elder taught at 100%
    4. alicante11
      alicante11 1 August 2016 09: 33
      +1
      The number of universities should be reduced, the criteria for admission to be complicated at times, the budget - only for students who have studied at school or winners of olympiads,


      Basically I agree. The only criterion "studied well at school" is very well applicable to the inhabitants of "mountain auls", who even have 110 points out of 100 in the exam.
      As well as with the olympiads, there are such - pay money, answer simple questions and get a certificate of participation in the olympiad "for portfolio".
      So "only hardcore", only exams. Of course, anti-corruption measures must be properly thought out.
    5. Verdun
      Verdun 1 August 2016 10: 53
      +6
      Quote: atalef
      You yourself see what it has turned into. Hundreds of thousands of students receive ANYONE (and they themselves) do not need the profession. more precisely, the level of education 9 on paper) that does not meet the requirements of the market.
      Education will never be subject to market requirements. Paid - in particular. There are two main reasons.
      1. The market is in no way interested in an educated person. He needs a "consuming person", which means an illiterate, striving for a purely philistine existence. The market essentially does not need the development of serious science, or space flights, or knowledge of the structure of the universe. The market is satisfied with a handful of educated elite that control the gray and poorly educated mass, which is controlled by this elite.
      2. Market relations and a paid education system generate a lot of fictitious educational institutions, the main purpose of which is not to give people knowledge, but to make money. The leaders of such educational institutions do not give a damn whether the specialists trained in this way will be in demand and whether their activity will be truly effective. The main thing is to convince applicants of the relevance of the acquired knowledge, and employers that they really need such specialists.

      Having received the best education in the world, our citizens “charged” cans of water from the TV with Kashpirovsky, and then carried all the savings to MMM.
      Citizens who received the best education in the world were the first to launch a person into space, make many scientific discoveries, move science in its most diverse fields, win the most difficult war ... At the same time, citizens of other countries who receive an elite and paid education are willing to invest their money into financial pyramids and go to psychics.
      Parents and children are driven into an incomprehensible marathon of acquiring (for money, of course) nobody needs crusts and degrees. The number of universities and institutes has grown to such an extent that if you have not graduated from a super prestigious university, then consider that you have not finished anything.
      Ultimately, people do not need scraps about education, but knowledge as such. And the employer, by and large, needs not a person with a diploma, but a competent specialist. And this means that if you remove the "crusts" as a criterion for the assessment when hiring, and leave only knowledge, "exaggerated" universities will die out by themselves. However, for various reasons, including opportunistic ones, the state often makes it mandatory to have such crusts. Moreover, it is often stipulated which university these crusts should be. There should be a clear separation between the need for a good education and the current system of obtaining it. Education is needed, but the existing system needs to be really changed. It is absolutely unimportant what the name of an educational institution that gives a good education will be - a vocational school or a university, a technical school or an institute. The main thing is that they give a normal education there. And the state, acting in the interests of all citizens of the country, and not for the sake of the interests of a handful of ruling elite concentrating power in their hands, is interested in the maximum level of education of its population. This means that he is interested in making sure that any level of education is as accessible as possible - free.
    6. Pereira
      Pereira 1 August 2016 11: 15
      +1
      Atalef, all your reasoning is logical and justified.
      With the policy of destroying industry and switching to screwdriver assembly, education is really not necessary. In this sense, training services are the same business as, for example, the content of a wineglass. In such an economy, higher education is needed only for middle-level engineers in foreign branches. Space, defense and nuclear energy is too little to occupy everyone.

      But critics of the education system in Russia by default suggest that the revival of high-tech production in Russia will nevertheless take place and are worried that there will be no one to work in factories. Funny people believe our dumb little Medvedka when he broadcasts about import substitution, not realizing that he’s bred us all.
      This system needs to be changed. And only then to adjust the education system for it. Otherwise, it will turn out not even a horse in front of the cart, but a horse without a cart. A heavy truck that rides kids in the park.
    7. CONTROL
      CONTROL 2 August 2016 09: 46
      0
      [quote = atalef] [quote]So we see the result of 24-year-old blondes with 3 me working as higher education waitresses.[/ Quote]
      But we see these same "blondes" - even younger ... - who "run" the branches of large banks, industrial companies, the construction of the most complex facilities! Not having not only higher education, but also "very, very secondary education"!
      [quote = atalef] [quote]This system needs to be changed.[/ Quote]
      ... Start with the "head"? Or - according to Olga Golodets - to cut your fingers? ...
  • Max_Bauder
    Max_Bauder 1 August 2016 08: 06
    +2
    Hello everybody! before answering the question of the article, I suggest to ponder by watching this video



    P.S. in my opinion questions of paid or free education is a secondary question. The main question is - how do we see our children in the future, after receiving education? obedient slaves paying to learn how to competently serve the rich who invented this education? Or maybe free and creatively developed people working for the good of the motherland, which provides them with the opportunity to realize this work? What is more important? to be an average person who knows how to manage equipment, devices, fulfill orders and think in a standard way or think not like everyone else and create completely new things and take initiative in innovation? Think smile
  • Grandfather Luka
    Grandfather Luka 1 August 2016 08: 42
    +6
    The article is pitch-black. The author is a typical juggler with words, a demagogue, a spiculant and a swindler, of whom we can see many in different information swamps, like infectious mosquitoes. The level of secondary education and the number of suckers who want to give their pennies to the first comer are not directly dependent. MMM included people with different levels of education, just as they are now throwing everywhere and everyone, regardless of their diploma. Under the old regime, the general average level of education was higher, and less morbid idiots. And this contrast is all the more obvious the more such articles have to be read.
    PS And there is no need to confuse education, including higher education, with advanced training courses. Education is, first of all, "an assembly of a MAN", and a specialist, secondly. The main thing is that we would have more people. A healthy society requires much more of them than specialists of narrow qualifications.
  • starshina78
    starshina78 1 August 2016 08: 45
    +8
    What is paid education? This is the kind of education that does not give anything, no knowledge, but only takes away money. Examples of this (in my personal experience, a lot). There are guards working in my company, young guys, good, conscientious, but God did not give them the mind to get an education. Their level is nine grades of a comprehensive school. But no, almost all graduated from a branch of one of the Moscow universities in my city. Now all graduates. True, as specialists they are complete zero. Another example is the wife's nephew. Oak oak. I went to work in the police (then still) as a sergeant. I quickly realized that it was very tiring, first I graduated from college for money (law!), Then college, again law. Now he is already in the rank of major, and when writing in the word "peace" he makes three mistakes. And there are many such examples in my experience. People with higher engineering education who graduated not the last university in the ranking with a technical bias came to me personally to be hired, but as engineers they do not represent anything !!! This is a joke about them, when they are sent for compression with a bucket. So, unas education in Russia is not about acquiring knowledge by profession, but paying money for a diploma. By the way, today there was information that the Government will reduce by 40% the number of budget places in universities in 2017, and 8300 scientists, including such as those working in the Kurchatov Center. So think for yourself - what is it, sabotage or thoughtlessness of decision-making?
    1. atalef
      atalef 1 August 2016 12: 20
      0
      Quote: starshina78
      What is paid education? This is an education that gives nothing, no knowledge, but only takes money

      I don’t know if graduates from leading world universities will agree with you.
      About free education at Harvard. Oxford. Cambridge. MIT? No, have not heard No.

      Quote: starshina78
      Guards work in my company, young guys, good, conscientious, but God did not give them the mind to receive an education. Their level is nine grades of a comprehensive school. So no, almost all graduated from a branch of one of the Moscow universities in my city

      This only confirms my words - the number of universities should be reduced, the selection criteria to complicate
      Quote: starshina78
      Another example is the wife's nephew. Oak oak. I went to work in the police (then still) as a sergeant. I quickly realized that it was very tiring, first I graduated from college for money (legal!), Then college, again legal. Now he is already in the rank of major, and when writing in the word "peace" he makes three mistakes

      and what does the paid or free education 7
      Quote: starshina78
      . So think for yourself - what is it, sabotage or rash decision-making?

      and what do you propose?
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 1 August 2016 13: 08
        0
        I don’t know if graduates from leading world universities will agree with you.
        About free education at Harvard. Oxford. Cambridge. MIT? Not heard no


        Well, as they say, the Queen of England is always beyond suspicion. But he did not study not in the know.
        But how many people study there? And is this enough to provide specialists with all areas of human life?
  • Sirocco
    Sirocco 1 August 2016 08: 47
    +6
    Quote: kagorta
    I am for paid higher education. Budget places, or rather, scholarships should be only for winners of olympiads, school competitions, contests no lower than district, or regional

    Here you seem to have gone too far, education by definition should be free, at least a school at least a university. A good example of paid education is Russia today and an example of this is the Diamond Boy with his followers, and some politicians and educators in schools.
    Quote: kagorta
    Where students and professors don’t know what.

    Now about it.
    I have said more than once that there is no connection in our education and production system, educational institutions do not know who to teach them, and production does not want to pay vocational schools for training specialists, thereby driving themselves into a corner. The chain is torn between them, and I think the reason is that all the factories, ships and steamships belong to a private trader who wants to maximize profits with a minimum of investment.
    In general, the situation with education should have been reversed yesterday, but things are still there, and if so it means it is beneficial to someone, the question is who, and why? Why, then I wrote about IT. An uneducated crowd is easier to manage.
    1. atalef
      atalef 1 August 2016 12: 21
      0
      Quote: Sirocco
      Here you seem to have gone too far, education by definition should be free, at least a school at least a university

      School - yes. High school - no, or rather free for the best.
    2. Shepard
      Shepard 1 August 2016 13: 05
      +2
      That is precisely the connection is broken. Again, we return to the USSR. All scolded him for distribution after training. And if you try to understand why this was so, then it turns out that all industries were state-owned, each industry made applications for specialists, workers, employees, researchers. The state itself prepared employees for its money for its industries. The state is interested in the uniform development of all regions. Accordingly, it distributed evenly across the regions in accordance with the need and submitted applications. (P.S. Hence the five-year plans (five-year plans) and five-year education at universities) that the people complained about the distribution, the result of Western infusion into the ears (prison of nations, etc.), which is bad when all citizens are involved in work for the good of the state. Moreover, when distributing, you receive lifting and free housing in accordance with your marital status, and after training guaranteed work in the specialty. Now to the current situation. The bulk of the people are not geniuses and creators, this is not bad, not good, respectively, not everyone needs an engineering or postgraduate education, technical or professional enough. Relations in the country have become capitalist, respectively, on what basis should the state prepare specialists for the capitalists, so that then the capitalists receive freebie specialists. There are industries that are key for the state, defense is fundamental science, applied science for government sectors, agriculture, construction of roads and railways, civil aviation, and the extraction of the necessary amount of strategic resources. It is for these areas that the state must prepare specialists for itself. But there should be a measure of responsibility for the education provided to you by the state, I learned how to be a railwayman, and according to specialization. You don’t want to work where you paid for the entire training period. And if you are a capitalist, then take care of the staff you need and the degree of their education. Then the situation will equalize. The state itself prepares specialists for free, the capitalists train specialists on their own. And now it turns out that students, by hook or by crook, go for free tuition so that they can leave the country altogether or do not understand what (to look for themselves), or concentrate in regional centers and work as menchandisers, marketers and other incomprehensible and useless professions. And the capitalist, in turn, only manages to present and compose demands, must know the theory of relativity and the theory of psychoanalysis and have communicative and scientific degrees in several areas and 10 years more work experience, and so the capitalist will have his own educational institution for his activities here and prepare yourself geeks, and when you feel how much it costs then the ardor for the demands will fade away and you will not be specialists, and not only specialists, but even employees with the words "There are a lot of people like you behind the gate." And a person, when choosing a profession, would not only do something somewhere, but already think that he had chosen the profession for a long time. As a result, and state. an educational institution and a private educational institution from an enterprise or holding will prepare high-quality personnel because for themselves. And that is, now the Higher School of Economics, whom they prepare for whom they prepare for the quality, they are not asked for quality, they received a license to issue diplomas with the word higher education, and it turns out a mutual guarantee of taking money from the population, some without higher education do not take to a hairdresser , the latter are ready to "teach" for money, budget places are occupied, you have to pay. And 70% of the population a higher education in a lifetime is not useful.
  • alicante11
    alicante11 1 August 2016 09: 03
    +3
    Here we have an engineering university in our city and professors in it who did not smell production.


    And you, forgive me, who after "production" will now "teach"? You will compare salaries in the Russian Railways system and in the railway technical school. And all questions will disappear. Maybe first let's make educators elite, and they will already think how to make education elite?
    1. ImPerts
      ImPerts 1 August 2016 09: 22
      +1
      As far as I remember, specialized technical schools also hung on the predecessor of Russian Railways. And the teacher in the college was an employee of the Ministry of Railways, which gave preferences. Going as a teacher at a vocational school, changing the field to a warm class, was attractive.
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 1 August 2016 11: 46
        0
        As far as I remember, specialized technical schools also hung on the predecessor of Russian Railways.


        That was earlier". And now we are a free supplier of low-skilled workforce for Russian Railways. Moreover, they are forced to beg for an opportunity for their students to undergo internship at specialized enterprises.
        There is no sense in "profile" UZ, which are not included in profile systems.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 09: 51
    -1
    Quote: kagorta
    Here we have an engineering university in our city and professors in it who did not smell production.

    I understand that you are from the same series as aptor, an engineering university can not be understood, at least in this matter
  • Ivan Ivanov
    Ivan Ivanov 1 August 2016 10: 26
    +2
    Quote: kagorta
    I'm for paid higher

    If the Bolsheviks followed a paid course, considered education to be excessive, then in 25 years a technical intelligentsia capable of building rockets and nuclear power plants would not have grown in a poor, dilapidated country. Payment cuts off the insolvent, rather fixes the current level of development, social structure. Interest in learning, with rare exceptions, does not manifest itself, it must be "tried", which means that in addition to quality and popularization, accessibility is needed.
    1. alicante11
      alicante11 1 August 2016 11: 47
      0
      If the Bolsheviks went on a paid course, considered education redundant, then in 25 years the technical intelligentsia capable of building rockets and nuclear power plants would not have grown in a poor, dilapidated country.


      So it is under socialism. But we have capitalism. And with him money likes an account, and it’s not once there, after 20 years, but tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Yes, the percentage is not 5-10, but 200-300.
  • Uncle
    Uncle 1 August 2016 12: 23
    0
    Quote: kagorta
    I'm for paid higher

    I agree, the price of this education and the availability of money for payment are important to me.
  • kagorta
    kagorta 2 August 2016 18: 26
    -2
    The site has turned into a crowd of unbalanced individuals. Since 2011, normal discussions and discussions have become a thing of the past. There was only no respect for someone else’s position, swearing, URA and some kind of strange spirit. I can not describe it in words, it seems that patriotism is present, but at the same time chauvinism is just going through the roof. But this should not be.
    1. iConst
      iConst 2 August 2016 19: 07
      0
      Quote: kagorta
      The site has turned into a crowd of unbalanced individuals. Since 2011, normal discussions and discussions have become a thing of the past.
      ...
      - If the Sun rises, then someone needs it ... smile
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2016 19: 11
      0
      Quote: kagorta
      The site has turned into a crowd of unbalanced individuals

      self-critical
      Quote: kagorta
      but chauvinism just rolls over

      can you give examples of chauvinism?
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 1 August 2016 06: 13
    +15
    Having received the best education in the world, our citizens “charged” cans of water from the TV with Kashpirovsky, after which they took all the savings to MMM. About MMM in more detail, who introduced advertising 24 hours a day at all angles? And Kashpirovsky from this series. Have you heard about zombies?
  • UrraletZ
    UrraletZ 1 August 2016 06: 16
    +18
    And I am for free education. It is impossible to divide into "worthy" and "unworthy" according to the property qualification. The author is snickering.
    1. VP
      VP 1 August 2016 06: 22
      +3
      Perhaps the son could not go on a budget wink
    2. 24rus
      24rus 1 August 2016 06: 39
      +8
      Children from large families are doomed to literacy ..
      1. kagorta
        kagorta 1 August 2016 06: 48
        +2
        And now children from large families can go somewhere to study? Or only where they live will come. This is a matter of social elevators. If talented, win at the Olympics and you will still receive a scholarship. The champion of the world or Europe, and even in the region, in the region must definitely be taken for training.
      2. Uncle
        Uncle 1 August 2016 12: 34
        0
        Quote: 24rus
        Children from large families are doomed to literacy ..

        You, apparently from the large. smile Illiteracy is written together.
      3. Nix1986
        Nix1986 1 August 2016 13: 55
        0
        What is this ?! Nobody canceled the work. I studied on a paid basis, from the second year I worked, I paid for tuition, from the 4th year I was already working in my specialty, by the time of graduation I had experience, earnings and other goodies. So do not ...
    3. atalef
      atalef 1 August 2016 07: 28
      +5
      Quote: UrraletZ
      And I am for free education. It is impossible to divide into "worthy" and "unworthy" according to the property qualification. The author is snickering.

      Worthy are those who study well and pass grades (this is a scholarship system developed around the world by 0
      I’ll tell you how in Israel there is practically no free education at a university. but the more prestigious the university, the cheaper tuition, but you can only go there if you have high school results and a high psychotest score (this is the same exam test) only more difficult. The more prestigious the university, the more it receives subsidies from the state (type state says - you're good studied at school - we will pay for you part of the training)
      Well, for all the rest * lobotryas * who have gone to study at school - please, for grandmothers of universities. courses increase the psychotest score (it can be transferred to infinity 2 per year) - in short, you didn’t attend school - you want a tower - pay.
      This, in my understanding, achieves the correct dropout and some justice.
      As an example, a tuition fee for studying at the best technical university in Israel is about 3.5 t bass per year. at the same time, the fee in the non-staff institute can reach 8-9 t bucks a year.
      1. kolyhalovs
        kolyhalovs 1 August 2016 08: 49
        +2
        This, in my understanding, achieves the correct dropout and some justice.


        This is an attempt to pass off the vicious system of paid education as something fair. According to the principle "If they are outraged by the fact that they are being held by the throat, you need to squeeze harder, and when they wheeze, unclench again, they will thank." The thing is that 3500 USD. That is, it is also money. And if a person does not have them? Thus, a barrier is placed on the have-nots in higher education (I wonder if there are have-nots in Israel?) Well, okay, it will somehow get out. This is not the worst thing yet.

        The most unpleasant thing is that there is actually a trade in higher education. That is, if a person has money, then it’s wonderful. That will be your highest. And it’s not worth saying that you need to study (I scoured the school, and suddenly I started to think in the university, huh), the university becomes INTERESTED in this ignoramus getting a higher education.

        Well, the richest will push their ignoramus at 3500. And not because it's cheaper, but because of the prestige of the university.
        1. atalef
          atalef 1 August 2016 12: 31
          +1
          Quote: kolyhalovs
          This is an attempt to pass off the vicious paid education system as something fair.

          Everything is fair - I studied well - you pay less.
          Quote: kolyhalovs
          . The thing is that 3500 y. e. - this is also money

          monthly salary (I said about Israel). well, some 2's month
          Quote: kolyhalovs
          And if a person does not have them?

          Then you need to study and graduate from school as my son. you will pay for the year of study 600 dollars
          Quote: kolyhalovs
          In this way, a barrier is placed on the poor in higher education (I wonder if there are poor in Israel?) Well, get it out somehow. This is not the worst.

          In general, the state pays for the first 2 year of training for the army who has served (in combat units).
          Therefore, to get a higher education the poor have 2 absolutely normal ways
          1. Study well
          2. Serve in combat units
          What is the problem ? Not wanting both? then sorry. Work and earn or shake relatives for grandmothers.

          Quote: kolyhalovs
          The most unpleasant thing is that there is actually a trade in higher education.

          trade is now in Russia. when the need of all drives to receive a banner (often not needed 0. but for the money you can also not visit
          Quote: kolyhalovs
          Well, the richest will push their ignoramus on 3500. And not because it’s cheaper, but because of the prestige of the university

          It is useless, I want to see how someone will do the thieves at our university.
          Or the professor will try to bring a gift laughing
          None of this. nor real. dough is not enough to bribe.
          1. kolyhalovs
            kolyhalovs 1 August 2016 13: 01
            +1
            Everything is fair - I studied well - you pay less.

            And he studied badly - you pay more, right?
            That is, the option studied well - entered, studied poorly - did not enter, you are not considered in principle?
            trade is now in Russia

            We are not talking about Russia now. It is impossible to look at what is happening in the system of higher education in Russia without a lump in the throat.

            Free education based solely on the mental abilities of applicants is always fairer than paid education, which introduces an additional factor not related to education into the relationship between the university and the student. And again I emphasize - ideally. After all, you can have "free" training to make such garbage, where without a bribe not a day.

            Your system is the same our order, only in a less hypertrophied form (crammed into the frame). Therefore, it seems "fair" to you. In fact, this is not the case.

            dough is not enough to bribe


            I will never believe it. Where you can buy, be sure to buy. Maybe you don’t have enough, I believe it. There are just other people who can buy a university. All. Again - if it presses. After all, not all children of really rich people are ignoramuses. Quite the contrary, there is no need to buy.
            1. atalef
              atalef 1 August 2016 20: 43
              0
              Quote: kolyhalovs
              And he studied badly - you pay more, right?

              Correctly
              Quote: kolyhalovs
              That is, the option studied well - entered, studied poorly - did not enter, you are not considered in principle?

              More as seen, read my comments
              He studied well - he entered a prestigious university with subsidized state education (for all applicants). He studied poorly - please go to a shabby (or not so) institute (maybe all state universities) - pay the 4 price and try.
              Quote: kolyhalovs
              than paid, which introduces an additional factor that is not related to education in the relationship between the university and the student.

              It is not clear if you pay for sausage in a store and this does not cause you dissonance, then why is paying for education a problem?
              Quote: kolyhalovs
              Your system is our same order, only in a less hypertrophied form

              ???????
              Quote: kolyhalovs
              I’ll never believe it.

              Have to
              Quote: kolyhalovs
              Am where you can buy, be sure to buy

              What for ? Deferment from the army, so we don’t have this.
              Examinations are only written under the code. The salary of the professor is such that for a dozen tons of dollars - it makes no sense, and what the hell is the student?
              Quote: kolyhalovs
              There are just other people who can buy a university.

              There are none, state universities, buy a university? But.
              I wonder how much the Haifa Technion can cost?
              Professor (Oleg) what do you think?
          2. alicante11
            alicante11 1 August 2016 13: 15
            0
            Everything is fair - I studied well - you pay less.


            And then why not "free" at all 7 Not kosher, not capitalistically?

            In general, the state pays for the first 2 year of training for the army who has served (in combat units).


            In and probably only the winners of the Olympiads are taken to the army :)

            It is useless, I want to see how someone will do the thieves at our university.


            Yes, I beg you, I myself have said this to students a thousand times. So no la-la, there will always be someone who has "enough", or there will be "another argument."
      2. S-kerrigan
        S-kerrigan 1 August 2016 09: 00
        +1
        I agree, plus or minus with your position.
        At one time he entered Tomsk. To one of the strongest universities. For budget and engineering. However, as we went deeper into the program, it became more and more difficult to hold ourselves back and practice. As a result, N-years were spent on deductions / "academies". Then I had the courage to admit that I don't need a diploma myself. They needed basic knowledge of university physics and mathematical analysis. This was more than enough to become a good programmer.
        Therefore, yes, on the one hand, the basic engineering level should not be superfluous to a person. However, most of the university is superfluous to people.
      3. kotvov
        kotvov 1 August 2016 10: 41
        +1
        - in short, did not go to school - want a tower - pay. ,,
        but don’t you think that it’s like a scam? They’ll pay the money, but the result? There’s no specialist, a diploma in your pocket. Where to put it, only to the administration. And then these people (with a diploma, but without education) will determine the strategy the development of the district-city-region-country. which we, by the way, are now observing. a man who has not shown himself in any way is appointed to the position where he is a complete zero.
      4. UrraletZ
        UrraletZ 1 August 2016 19: 53
        0
        We had the best education in the world, which is crumbling to bring up a generation of consumers, not Creators. Ride to Israel and study. And we live in Russia.
    4. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 1 August 2016 08: 20
      +7
      Quote: UrraletZ
      And I am for free education.

      "Tower" on the Belarusian model. Unlearned - is obliged to work for 2-3 years according to distribution. If you don't want to, pay for education. hi
    5. atalef
      atalef 1 August 2016 12: 23
      -1
      Quote: UrraletZ
      And I am for free education. It is impossible to divide into "worthy" and "unworthy" according to the property qualification. The author is snickering.

      You confuse a little property qualification and academic performance. I spoke for scholars of school and excellent students (students) - scholarships, graduate - let them pay.
      You somehow mix parasites and excellent students in one bottle.
  • VP
    VP 1 August 2016 06: 21
    +3
    By tightening the requirements for the results of the exam and the certificate for admission to the university (unlike modern realities, when for admission to most specialties under the contract it is enough to demonstrate the minimum luggage of knowledge: 30 points in any subject - they can be scored randomly by checking the boxes in the task form )

    Do not dial, do not expect.
    For a long time already there are practically no "ticks" in the exam, you have information from ten years ago.
    They are still in part "A", but even if you guess all the tasks from this part, then for the answers to part "A" a minimum of points is given, all correctly solved part "A" will not make it possible to achieve these 30 points.
    And even if you type, what will you do with them?
    In any university, even in a provincial, for a more or less interesting specialty, the competitive entrance hall starts with a minimum of 190 points. And for a specialty, it’s more interesting for deep 200. And what will you do with your 30 * 3 = 90?
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 1 August 2016 06: 22
    +6
    I didn't put "+" or "-", the topic is very debatable.
    I repeatedly repeat to everyone and everything that it is prestigious for us to be an economist and lawyer. The competition for budget places is huge, the number of paid structures is huge and the problems in the economy and law are huge. Quantity can never go into quality. Whether the introduction of paid education will solve this problem, I do not know.
    PS I. V. Stalin, on the contrary, advocated access to education, including higher education. And Soviet education was considered quality.
    1. kagorta
      kagorta 1 August 2016 06: 27
      -9
      Stalin had a period such that both the decade and universities were paid. From 1940 to 1956
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 1 August 2016 07: 19
        +9
        Firstly, they introduced paid in 1940, when less than 10% remained uneducated. Until 1940, no fee was charged. Secondly, tuition fees in Moscow and Leningrad amounted to 200 rubles per year. In other entities - 150 rubles per year. In year. Third, fees were charged for 8, 9, 10 classes. Fourth, the average wage of a worker in 1940 is 350 rubles per month. Per month. Fifth, the Number of students in 1914 / 1915 schools - 9,7 million, in 1940 / 1941 - 34,8 million
        The number of teachers 1914 / 1915gg - 280.000, in 1940 / 41 - exceeded 1.200.000 people. This is about accessibility.
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 09: 54
        +1
        Quote: kagorta
        Stalin had a period such that both the decade and universities were paid. From 1940 to 1956

        what?
  • strelets
    strelets 1 August 2016 06: 31
    +9
    Increasing education elitism? Look to the West.
    The gap between rich and poor is growing. The quality of education does not increase. Society is stratified. Officials and managers, products of their systems, say and do stupid things. Then what is all this for?
  • Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 1 August 2016 06: 55
    +4
    First of all, specialists should train, and not woodpeckers with purchased diplomas.
    1. VP
      VP 1 August 2016 07: 13
      0
      Excuse me, do you have an idea about the education system only from the Internet?
      Or do you really know that such a professor or associate professor bought a diploma of higher education at the time?
      1. Banishing liberoids
        Banishing liberoids 1 August 2016 07: 34
        -1
        VP from those who were thrown out of the institute and who did not want to pay "past the cash register"!
  • Nix1986
    Nix1986 1 August 2016 07: 16
    +4
    My humble opinion. School education, as basic, should be free. And the university is free for those who are ready to work for the state for some time after the contract after training (how long is a separate issue 3, 5 years ...), and for all the others it’s paid, because After school, relations with the state should be bilateral, the state is ready to spend money on you, but you must repay your debt to the state, because if a nuclear physicist learned free of charge at the expense of the state, he immediately goes to the states to work on their defense, it’s kind of buzzing. But with regard to paid education, its quality, he studied for a fee 9 years ago, he was forced to break ice on the road to the institute as a production practice (since money was shamelessly plundered) and what often happened was to build a garage or dean or manager. The departments, to which they sent and in turn promised to expel me for this, thanks the rector was normal. Therefore, about quality, this is a rhetorical question.
    1. Alex_59
      Alex_59 1 August 2016 08: 17
      +2
      Quote: Nix1986
      School education, as basic, should be free.

      I would also add colleges and technical schools at least, and at most more institutes. They do not want to be hard workers, but the demand is high. Better with engineers, but also scarce. And this level is an institution.
      Quote: Nix1986
      A university is free for those who are ready to work for the state for some time after the contract after studying

      A university has two options: 1 — for free and work out at the end and assignment of 5 years. 2 is paid, either the future employer pays for you, and then you return it to him with salary, or you take an educational loan.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 1 August 2016 08: 24
        0
        Quote: Alex_59
        1st - to work for free and with distribution at the end and obligation of 5 years.

        In Belarus, this system is working successfully. hi
      2. Nix1986
        Nix1986 1 August 2016 09: 36
        0
        There is such a disaster with free training at a university: 3 years ago I taught at a university myself, though in private vocational training courses in the evenings, so the main problem is that only theoretical knowledge, applied knowledge and skills are put into their heads in the overwhelming majority either not studied at all, or at such a minimum level that you can forget about it. Let me explain with a close example to me, students of specialized disciplines do not study at all what ERP systems are, or they study, but in a minimum, ala 1C Accounting or T&S, neither to you SCP, nor even SAP or BAAN or AXAPTA. It’s understandable, such courses are paid and in the institution of higher education of the company the copyright holders will not certify such courses, but on the other hand we do not need the level of knowledge of the analyst, but just an experienced user. And in this case, the university could agree with the copyright holders about such courses for its students. But it's still money. And we again come to the conclusion that good training cannot be free or cheap. Therefore, either the university is free to work out later in the state, or paid. And the question is two, this is an internship, when I studied production practice, it was normal only to do good, who has friends, in other cases, trouble, or the inability to pass it at all. Therefore, only having solved the problems with obtaining applied knowledge, completing an internship, we will receive good specialists at the exit. And shareware (with working off at the state) and paid education will allow to weed out left people at the entrance.
  • Yves762
    Yves762 1 August 2016 07: 18
    0
    You can argue about each thesis for a long time ...
    There is only one conclusion - on all sides, in this issue.
    Or maybe so.?.
    Natural selection, as a mechanism for the evolution of society. Through competition and the adaptability of individuals to the .... conditions, progress for the entire population of homies of sapiens of our poor planet.
    Not humanely, but ... And how else in a herd living according to the principles of a chicken coop.?.

    In short, privately, nefig to be loaded; and "step march" to the library! And at the same time, and their backgnaws there ...

    "I was educated at the library. Completely free."

    Raymond Douglas (Ray) Bradbury
  • Blackmokona
    Blackmokona 1 August 2016 07: 21
    +2
    He looked in the morning on geek.time
    https://geektimes.ru/post/279066/
    In 2017, the government can cut up to 40% of budget places in universities

    By 2019, from the FANO salary sheet, the Ministry of Education and Science proposes to remove about 8,3 thousand scientific employees. In 2017, 3.5 thousand people can already be fired. Next year, 1,5 thousand people will be fired from the Kurchatov Institute.

    The Ministry of Education and Science claims that such a decision will lead to a real reduction in spending on the needs of science and education in Russia. For example, the state program "Development of Education" was underfunded last year, in 2016 it will be reduced by 11,5% of its passport value. And in 2017, the sequestration of the educational program will amount to 23,4% of the program passport. The reductions will continue in 2018, 2019, when expenses will be reduced by 28,5% and 35,2%, respectively. In 2019, the share of education spending in total budget expenditures will fall from 2,75% in 2015 to 2,45% in 2019.

    I think that on TopVar one of the liberals or the idiot (and they are not different, they just go differently to their goal) should already praise this decision. And I look and see, and the truth! fellow
    1. Leto
      Leto 1 August 2016 07: 49
      +1
      Quote: BlackMokona
      I think that on TopVar one of the liberals or the idiot (and they are not different, they just go differently to their goal) should already praise this decision. And I look and see, and the truth!

      The government made a decision, instructions on how to justify went down, people who were ready for the money to justify Hitler got down to work ...
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 1 August 2016 07: 23
    0
    Then let me know what you did 10 years at school, and then for the long five years in the classrooms of universities?

    A legitimate question is what did the author do?
    But with this quote from the article of July 28.07.16, XNUMX, I completely agree
    The upper level of education should not be determined by the thickness of the wallet, but by the person himself, depending on his abilities and hard work.
  • minus
    minus 1 August 2016 07: 25
    +3
    The introduction of paid education will certainly not improve the situation. And the teachers are pulling money now, and they will pull it even more. I recall how a niece took an exam at one of the medical universities a few years ago. The teacher approaches the head of the department and asks how to put 5 ? She did not pass 10 thousand for a positive mark on the exam .... !!!
  • Cat
    Cat 1 August 2016 07: 33
    +3
    Do not twist, and free education is primarily a system of social elevators, when a person from the village gets an opportunity ...
    In this connection, for the sake of our future "Mikhailo Lomonosovs", it is necessary to leave the possibility of equal access to higher education.
  • beer-youk
    beer-youk 1 August 2016 07: 36
    +4
    Quote: VP
    Or do you really know that such a professor or associate professor bought a diploma of higher education at one time?


    Sometimes such a thought suggests itself. The son of my friend did a term paper on "Hoisting and transport mechanisms" CAM, ie. did not buy a ready-made one from a department employee. The head, by the way, associate professor, made such corrections that it became clear that he had not even heard of theoretical mechanics and strength of materials.
  • Kudrevkn
    Kudrevkn 1 August 2016 07: 45
    +7
    All the "payers" have a simple argument: could Vladimir Putin graduate from Leningrad State University today for a fee, having his parents, a dad - a carpenter in the housing office, a disabled WWII and a mother, a cleaner in the same housing office? Equal access to any education - there is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT OF EVERY CITIZEN OF RUSSIA !!!! And if someone wants to challenge this right, is he either a stupid person or a villain and a criminal? Because he violates the basic law of the Russian Federation? Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of our officials are such "individuals": either they do not know the Constitution (stupid people), or they deliberately violate (villains) ?! That is why we live outside the legal field, do such "judgments" arise - "to pay or not to pay" under conditions of animal capitalism? Even at the national referendum, gentlemen liberals, put this question, ?!
  • baudolino
    baudolino 1 August 2016 07: 47
    -4
    Higher education should be paid at least in order not to produce "educated" housewives and "Makarevichs" who, after graduation from the institute, do not compensate the state's expenses in any way. This is a "soviet relic" with its bouquet of prosperity - a car, a summer residence, a VO and a wife from a good family.
    And for promising children from not rich families to create a suitable learning mechanism is not difficult.
  • Alex_59
    Alex_59 1 August 2016 07: 51
    +4
    Having received the best education in the world, our citizens “charged” cans of water from the TV with Kashpirovsky, after which they took all the savings to MMM.
    - An example taken out of the historical context. Given what time it was and what was happening in the country - nothing surprising. Examples of mass stupidity can be found in the sea. So, for example, in a country with a very, very elite paid education, the majority of the population calmly haws the very dubious fact that a passenger plane crashing into the upper floors of a skyscraper is capable of tearing it to the ground.

    And in general, I do not understand how the upper level of education should be determined by the PAID education system? How will a talented poor family pay for such an education in accordance with his talent? Article minus. To put it mildly, the question is poorly worked out. And why did the author decide that our education is free? 40% of taxes is it free for you? Or by introducing a paid education we will be canceled part of the taxes?
    1. Santa Fe
      1 August 2016 10: 24
      0
      Quote: Alex_59
      An example taken from the historical context

      No, this is an unpleasant fact. And there are many such facts.
      Quote: Alex_59
      If we consider what time it was and what happened in the country

      And what was happening in the country that made people charge the banks from the TV? Smart people, well-read, educated. With the best Soviet education in the world
      Quote: Alex_59
      How does a talented poor family member pay for such an education according to his talent?

      A talented person from a poor family should, logically, receive a grant.

      So poor families, not to be able to buy a violin or hire a tutor, in Russia is not so much.
      Quote: Alex_59
      The very doubtful fact that a passenger plane crashing into the upper floors of a skyscraper is capable of tearing it down is quietly hawking.

      The fact that the official media monthly change their views about the downed Boeing is quietly hawking

      Militiamen shot down An-26 - an liner was shot down an hour later - a day later Ukrainian pilot Vladimir Voloshin was shot down, because no one in the sky saw a trace of an air defense missile system - a year later, of course, everything became clear now, Almaz Antey confirmed: Buki are replaced by fighters, secret witnesses constantly crawl out. This mess on the official Perov channel, with links to briefings of the Ministry of Defense leads to certain thoughts:
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 1 August 2016 12: 28
        0
        No, this is an unpleasant fact. And there are many such facts.


        Fact, but what is he talking about? The fact that they did not teach economics in Soviet times. Although, as another comment says correctly, in the west, too, are conducted on the pyramids and on psychics.

        And what was happening in the country that made people charge the banks from the TV? Smart people, well-read, educated. With the best Soviet education in the world


        There was propaganda. What does this reptile showed on central television, which people are accustomed to TRUST.

        A talented person from a poor family should, logically, receive a grant.


        How will you reveal this talent? If schools are paid, secondary schools are paid. Universities are paid. Kindergarten? So they, probably, will be paid. Or does someone from a poor family without schooling, for which there is no money, have a chance to get to the "Olympiad"?

        So poor families, not to be able to buy a violin or hire a tutor, in Russia is not so much.


        What are you? What if I have three children? And how much should I put on three tutors? And if the violin does not fit and you need a piano? And if the son is a future brilliant mechanic, how to open IT?

        The fact that the official media monthly change their views about the downed Boeing is quietly hawking


        And what, the West does not "hawala"?
        1. Cat
          Cat 1 August 2016 13: 56
          0
          A grand child will receive, but not from a bean family, but from the family of an official or a friend of an official, or by bribing an official.
          By the nature of the work, I know several "false mothers of loners" to whom everyone and everything should. A couple of days ago, I witnessed a conversation between my grandmother, who took custody of her own granddaughter with a living and full-fledged family of her daughter, for the sake of preferences from the state. What kind of orphan children she doesn't give a damn about other children, but for her own sake she will turn everything inside out.
          1. Santa Fe
            1 August 2016 19: 12
            0
            Quote: Kotischa
            A grand child will receive, but not from a bean family, but from the family of an official or a friend of an official, or by bribing an official.

            Nobody hides that Russian society is painfully painful.
        2. Santa Fe
          1 August 2016 19: 10
          0
          Quote: alicante11
          And if I have three children?

          According to statistics, there are only a few% of such families.

          * families with one child - 54%
          * families with two children - 37%
          * large families - 9,4%
          Source: http://www.materinstvo.ru/art/2074 Materinstvo.ru

          Moreover, not all of them are so poor that they do not buy a violin and piano.

          And they are constantly put in the example
          Quote: alicante11
          And if the son is a future genius mechanic, how can I open it?

          As a rule, starting to work in the service station
          1. alicante11
            alicante11 2 August 2016 14: 41
            0
            According to statistics, there are only a few% of such families.


            And what, we can not be considered?

            Moreover, not all of them are so poor that they do not buy a violin and piano.


            Have you tried? Or is it tedious to have more than one child only to those who have the opportunity to buy them a violin and piano?

            As a rule, starting to work in the service station


            And how will he get to college when he starts working in a car service? Will the host pay for the training of such a valuable shot? Yes, you are fantastic, my friend.
      2. Alex_59
        Alex_59 1 August 2016 14: 34
        -2
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        No, this is an unpleasant fact. And there are many such facts.

        I'm talking about that and that there are many of them. For example, in the same country where elite paid education is massively stomped in the church on weekends. They have a good education there or not, but they believe in God. A man on a cloud. Okay so.
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        And what was going on in the country that made people charge banks from the TV?

        I did not charge (I could not for infancy). My father is an engineer, he did not charge. My mother, an engineer, did not charge. I don’t know what forced others there. What was going on? So, the little things, the family broke up, the mother began to work at two jobs to feed herself, we stopped flying to Sevastopol and I saw my sister only in 2012, and when my father lost his job, he started drinking and almost got drunk completely, if not for me. Little nothings of life. Bytovuha. It's all boring. This is not Stalinist repression.
        1. Santa Fe
          1 August 2016 19: 21
          -1
          Let's not mix education, science and Christian education, with his concepts of life, death and justice

          Moreover, science itself does not exactly know what awaits after death
          Quote: Alex_59
          ak, little things, the family broke up, the mother began to work two jobs

          I can give you 100 examples of the opposite

          All those who privatized the plant, the ship, the building of the management of the dairy turned into an office center. approximately for 20% of Russians, a golden era began, with the first trips to resorts over the hill, Mercedes, and others. nishtyak

          Nothing foreshadowed the passion for black magic. This is just an indication that the majority of the population does not like and are unlikely to learn how to think in any education system.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 1 August 2016 22: 53
            +1
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Let's not mix education, science and Christian education, with his concepts of life, death and justice

            Come on, don’t teach me what to mix with. The dense faith in a man on a cloud does not prevent him from having a quality education. Charging basins with water does not interfere with launching the Buran into space. So the analogy with the basins is incorrect. It would be possible to demonstrate more specifically the blunders of Soviet education, the author of the article thought of only basins, which clearly characterizes himself.
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            I can give you 100 examples of the opposite

            No doubt. Already here you are tense, you will find 100 examples, but what about.
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            for about 20% of Russians

            Key phrase.
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            This is just an indicator that the majority of the population does not like and is unlikely to learn to think, with any education system.

            As in the USA. And in any other country.
            1. Santa Fe
              2 August 2016 08: 53
              -2
              In a secular state, religion exists parallel to science, somewhere at the level of family and upbringing. This is a whole worldview system.

              In contrast to the OBVIOUS CHARCOALISM with its obvious destructive influence on the minds and wallets of gullible citizens. Which, logically, having received the best education in the world, should have immediately ridiculed such jokes from the Middle Ages. As well as to understand that it is impossible to receive money from nowhere. Something like the first law of thermodynamics
              Quote: Alex_59
              Key phrase.

              What is the key

              For another half, all who are from the province, in the first years nothing has changed. At the same time, mind you, teleconferences with Kashpirovsky began back in the 80s, when they had not heard about the "dashing nineties"
              Quote: Alex_59
              As in the USA. And in any other country.

              So what, then, is the beauty and "exclusiveness" of the Soviet education system

              One of the modern education systems of its time, on a global level. As befits a developed country, with the status of a superpower
          2. alexej123
            alexej123 4 August 2016 19: 35
            0
            Just for the last sentence .. I don’t know. Oleg, is this YOUR people? You were born here, raised. And so about the majority of the population of the former homeland? By logic, and most of the VO also can not think? So what are you sticking out here then? What is not on American, Israeli and other sites? And in America they know how to think. The candidate for vice presidency does not know where the Czech Republic is, and where is Chechnya, IS IT NORMAL ??? This is what morons vote for such and how many of them? Counting the votes for McCain and Palin is the result as a percentage of the debility of the Americans. This is your logic.
  • isker
    isker 1 August 2016 08: 26
    0
    Quote: beer-youk

    Sometimes such a thought suggests itself. The son of my friend did a term paper on "Hoisting and transport mechanisms" CAM, ie. did not buy a ready-made one from a department employee. The head, by the way, associate professor, made such corrections that it became clear that he had not even heard of theoretical mechanics and strength of materials.


    The other extreme: more and more often, teachers themselves write (publish) their textbooks and force students not only to buy them, but also to hand them over exclusively! Step left, step right - two ...
  • Man7
    Man7 1 August 2016 08: 28
    +1
    The slogan "cadres decide everything" is as relevant now as it was in the first half of the XNUMXth century. Even more relevant, because there is no such ideology. Education should be free, but .... with correct and most importantly honest teaching and selection of persons (fair examinations). With paid education, not all smart and smart people will be able to realize themselves and thereby benefit the country. Paid education and the subsequent career ladder will become available only to "majors" and "especially selected". And these people will then lead the country, work in factories and enterprises (or rather, they are listed for a large salary). As a result, degradation. Education should be available to everyone and free of charge, if you don't get higher education, go to college (technical school), if you don't wait there, go to vocational school. The scheme worked very well under the Soviet Union, it only needs to be adapted to the current realities. This will also solve the upcoming personnel issue that already exists for highly qualified blue-collar specialties and mid-level engineers.
  • mpzss
    mpzss 1 August 2016 08: 44
    +2
    I had a question for the author of the article, more precisely two questions:
    1-
    What diploma, if you have a banal lack of the opportunity to acquire knowledge?
    let’s take me, I was 34 of the year when I went to the full-time part-time (evening) university, worked on shifts, attended classes ONLY during the inter-shift period, and what, didn’t I have to study? And if I WANTED to get the knowledge, but on the watch I just could not get it due to the fact that you could not take the textbooks with me, the Internet was not there ... And what should I do !? and education is needed because in my position a higher education is necessary!
    2-increase the tuition fee at the university, well, raise the payment bar, then approximately 90% of students drop out, I agree, but who drop out, those who can’t pay for their studies, although he has seven spans in his forehead, and who the wallet is clogged, it will learn, although there is a hole in its place in the brain!
    With regard to payment, objections are possible, they say, according to points, they will go to the "budget" and the poor, but here is an example of my friend, his son passed 287 USE points and was able to enter ONLY at the paid faculty in Kazan, tk. there were VERY few places for the free faculty and the score there was from 298 ...
    I want to say, I have already informed my children that a student, if he entered the institute after school, should study there at the budget department, but if a student flies out of him because of his abilities or because of his laziness, then let the girl go to work, and the guy - the army is waiting for him!
    1. Santa Fe
      1 August 2016 18: 45
      0
      Quote: mpzss
      so what, I didn't have to study?

      Logically, of course not. Once you yourself admitted that knowledge could not be obtained:
      Quote: mpzss
      if I WANTED to get knowledge, but on the watch I just could not get it because the textbooks with you will not take

      Quote: mpzss
      What am I supposed to do!

      at least at the time of training to find others. work in their city, to have the opportunity to study

      How else?

      Quote: mpzss
      and education is necessary because I need a higher education in my position!

      Do you need it yourself, or to show your superiors the "crust"?
  • teascher
    teascher 1 August 2016 08: 46
    +1
    It can start better from school, now students with annual deuces in several subjects freely move to the next class, in the second year only at the request of their parents, but they naturally do not want to. And the students also affect the school rating, the school rating on teachers' salaries.

    Esso (1) RU Today, 07:48 ↑
    I went through this system myself and saw a lot. First-school, if a teacher does not like his work and does it poorly (you need to be able to explain and convey information), the student will not study, and even more so, there will be no desire to go further. The reverse side is corruption if the director steals from teachers' salaries, and reports go to Moscow that everything is fine with us, mutual responsibility is everywhere, so the teacher will not really want to do his job well


    Yes, with the salary of a teacher of early classes who first came to school 3300 rubles, the teacher is enthusiastic to tears. Corruption? - How can a director steal from teachers' salaries? how? What a mutual guarantee, what nonsense are you talking about! They gave an order! not fulfilled, punishment. Who can the teacher cover?
  • kolyhalovs
    kolyhalovs 1 August 2016 08: 55
    +3
    I picked up the questions well, but I'm worried about "Yes, ay daz".
    Yes, ah daz? Sorry. Can I write it in English? And it turns out.

    Yes, I does.

    And it turns out that the author is degenerate. I don’t want to think badly about people.
    1. Santa Fe
      1 August 2016 18: 51
      0
      Quote: kolyhalovs
      And it turns out that the author is degenerate.

      Mutually
      Such as kolyhalovs can not even understand a joke

      This is a "bearded" anecdote about Soviet "linguists":
      - Moscow foreign language?
      - Yes, ah daz
  • lilian
    lilian 1 August 2016 08: 57
    +8
    A couple of months ago I was a guest worker in Russia, I visited you for the first time. I was stunned when I realized that in small cities, for example, the Tver region, the salary is 15 thousand. - quite normal and normal. And in the villages people are happy with a salary of 7-8 thousand. Children from families with such an income will not get into paid universities. Only a very small part of the population is destined to have good passing "scores", moreover, these same scores do not always characterize the mental abilities of a pupil and a student.

    Question on history. Name at least one figure from the sixteenth century. Mathematics. What is a function? Its concept in a nutshell. Physics. The first law of thermodynamics. Formulation and physical. meaning.


    I can add to the author: - How is a homozygous organism different from a heterozygous? In which cells is the haploid chromosome set? ...
    This is the ninth grade! The author was 100% in school.

    The mistake is the opinion that if I didn’t remember it, I studied for nothing. To be able to quickly get information, to navigate in it, to apply, is also an important quality acquired in the school. Head Trying to learn something - is already developing the brain.

    General payment will lead to the emergence of boyars, the pre-revolutionary time will return, when it seems that the lower classes could rise and become cultural, but this was an exception and not an ordinary occurrence.
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 1 August 2016 09: 01
    0
    The social successes of the USSR are not needed by the modern government. She believes that these are "unnecessary" expenses of the state. This includes education, and medicine, and housing and communal services, and pensions, ..., the list goes on. After all, the task is not to educate a citizen, but to create a "consumer". But, a double-edged sword. Working "for an uncle" for a pittance is getting smaller.
    Free does not mean affordable. The older generation knows what competitions were in institutions in the 60-70s. And then graduates worked out their education in distribution. (So ​​it's not completely free).
    PS For those who believe that medicine is still free I suggest an experiment - make an appointment with a "narrow" specialist without leaving the computer, no matter which one, so you have to "support" paid medicine.
  • lilian
    lilian 1 August 2016 09: 03
    0
    But I agree that university education is depreciating.
    Many employers seek to hire only with higher education.
    It is necessary to stop accepting for training graduates of secondary schools with low grades, both rich and low-income. Maybe then the role and authority of vocational schools will increase.
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 1 August 2016 09: 20
    +1
    Quote: lilian
    It is necessary to stop accepting for training graduates of secondary schools with low grades, both rich and low-income. Maybe then the role and authority of vocational schools will increase.

    In the 70s, at the entrance exams to universities, the average mark of the certificate was taken into account.
  • Victor N
    Victor N 1 August 2016 09: 28
    -3
    It is advisable to pay for education in high school, with the exception of the most talented (not by estimates, but by competitions, contests). Some of the potential applicants will drop out and will look for a real profession closer to the ground.
    1. alicante11
      alicante11 1 August 2016 12: 34
      +1
      It is advisable to pay for education in high school


      Yeah, why not start with kindergarten? Then not the "part", but the greater part will be eliminated. And we will return to the blessed tsarist times, when most of the population was illiterate.

      and will seek for himself a real profession closer to the earth.


      Well, you, Ukrainians, are you so drawn to the ground, or is "klichkism" contagious?
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 1 August 2016 09: 30
    +3
    In. lang "Yes, ah Daz"!


    This elite "smart guy" should know himself what is grammatically correct and used hee, shee, it daz, but not yay daz. (he, she, it does, but not I does).

    Slang use by some in the US. I doesn’t need to know, it’s the same as used. "SHCHAS" recognize correct along with "NOW" smile

    On the subject: it is necessary to close a lot of "universities" that have neither base nor norms. teachers, in practice this means leaving only existing universities in the USSR, plus a small number.
    Paid education should be along with free, but exams are necessarily equally tough everywhere and are not bought for money.
  • evil partisan
    evil partisan 1 August 2016 09: 36
    +1
    Only without joking about the benefits of self-education and reading textbooks at home. Of those “external students” who I was “lucky enough to take exams for,” there was not even knowledge of the level of the senior classes.
    After this phrase, my trust in the author of the article, as a teacher, decreased to zero. I tend to trust my teachers from my native physics department of USU more, who all as one said that the most important education and the most stable knowledge and skills a person acquires during self-education. Here the term "self-education" must also be understood correctly, in the sense that self-education is not learning by correspondence, but purposeful work on oneself with the aim of mastering a sufficient set of knowledge to carry out one's professional activities in a particular area.
    1. atalef
      atalef 1 August 2016 12: 42
      +2
      Quote: Angry Guerrilla
      After this phrase, I somehow immediately had confidence in the author of the article, as a teacher, decreased to zero. I am inclined to trust my teachers from my native physics faculty of Ural State University, who all said as one that the person acquires the most important education and the most stable knowledge and skills during self-education

      Hey . Yura, I completely agree with you.
      Now the son is studying at the 2-th degree.
      Education - at the faculty once a week. everything else - at home - myself. myself. myself.
      1. evil partisan
        evil partisan 1 August 2016 13: 35
        0
        Quote: atalef
        Hey . Yura ,
        Hi Sasha! drinks When will Izyu surrender? wink And why? winked
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 09: 50
    +2
    Question on history. Name at least one figure from the sixteenth century.

    Maths. What is the function? Her concept in a nutshell.

    Physics. The first law of thermodynamics. Formulation and physical. meaning.

    In. lang "Yes, ah Daz"!

    Apparently, aptor, in principle, does not understand what he is writing about, only a stupid person believes that everything needs to be remembered and kept in mind, a clever person knows how to use reference books, another question is that for this you need to know the basics

    it’s a pity that the article can be put only one minus, in addition, a fat minus to editors and moderators, when they finally work, ХРЕH in the context of a vegetable does not be missed by electronic moderation, and stupid articles as many
    1. Santa Fe
      1 August 2016 10: 10
      -1
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      for this you need to know the basics

      The first law of thermodynamics, the concept and essence of the function (a system where each element is made dependent on another element), the use of auxiliary verbs (they all have English words)

      This is the basis that Vasilenko Vladimir could not assimilate


      Nobody calls for keeping in mind the GOSTs from the constructor’s reference book, the article is about the basics
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 11: 17
        +2
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        This is the basis that Vasilenko Vladimir could not assimilate

        I doubt that you will prove the Pythagorean theorem on the fly and also don’t give a definition of a function, don’t stand out, and about the first law you also decide
        1. Santa Fe
          1 August 2016 11: 51
          -2
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          I doubt that you will prove the Pythagorean theorem on the fly

          Do not need
          enough to know its essence. about the squares of three sides

          Such elementary things should be remembered and understood by everyone who has studied at the 10 school for years. And if the humanitarian mentality does not grow together with mathematics, then at least be able to somehow communicate in a foreign language (taught from 5 class!). Not most can even do this. They are afraid to buy bananas abroad.
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          do not stand, yes, and about the first law as you are wrong

          Vasilenko Vladimir woke up the tram ham

          I may not be good at thermodynamics, but in my specialty (DPM-sopromat) I remember the basic concepts and the essence of things quite well. "Egg" - "kayak". Differences between tensile strength and yield strength. Dynamics and statics. Much has been forgotten, the very values ​​of the limits for various steels can no longer remember. But I still understand the essence of things and the basics of resistance to materials and are ready to explain in a nutshell
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 12: 40
            +1
            then why vomits out if much has been forgotten ?!
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 11: 42
        +1
        but do not tell the difference between the adiabatic and isotherms and isochores ?!
        this is the same BASIS, or maybe you remember the speed of gravity or the pressure of a liquid column?
        Believe me, it’s not difficult to pick up something which you don’t remember from the school course, even if you were an excellent student
        1. Santa Fe
          1 August 2016 11: 56
          0
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          but do not tell the difference between the adiabatic and isotherms and isochores ?!

          I repeat:
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          I may not be good at thermodynamics, but in my specialty (DPM-sopromat) I remember the basic concepts and the essence of things quite well. "Egg" - "kayak". Differences between tensile strength and yield strength. Dynamics and statics. Much has been forgotten, the very values ​​of the limits for various steels can no longer remember. But I still understand the essence of things and the basics of resistance to materials and are ready to explain in a nutshell

          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          believe it is not difficult to pick up something from the school course you do not remember

          Not something, but completely basic, elementary things.

          Which confuse people "who have received the best national education". Krasnoyarsk cannot be distinguished from Krasnodar. Israel is searched on a map in the Himalayas. The question is why did they go to school and now they scream about the need for "universal education"
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 12: 42
            +2
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            I repeat:


            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Not something, but completely basic, elementary things.

            do not repeat, I asked you basic things from elementary physics, I’m more than sure that if I ask for the volume of a truncated cone, you won’t remember it
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 1 August 2016 15: 03
              +2
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              do not repeat, I asked you basic things from elementary physics, I’m more than sure that if I ask for the volume of a truncated cone, you won’t remember it

              And here I will support Oleg. At a university (at least engineers, it’s Soviet - an institute) they learn to study, and not to know everything and everything. They learn how to seek knowledge, where to look. It is impossible to remember all the theorems. I myself will not remember 90% of the basic course of the TOE, which in theory is the bible for the signalman and electrician. And why should I keep this in my head all the time? But the bottom line is that I caught on how electrical engineering works, and I know where and how to find specific formulas, when I need to calculate something on the electrics.

              In general, the problem of education is not paid / free, but that people, firstly, need a choice and equal opportunities, and secondly, so that the people as a whole have some fundamentals hammered into their heads, still pre-university ones. To distinguish Krasnoyarsk from Krasnodar, as mentioned above. But already career guidance should be narrow enough. Narrower than we were given according to the Soviet system, where many disciplines are not useful in work. And those disciplines that are needed in the specialty must constantly keep up with the times. In 2000, we were almost not given the technology of cellular communication - it's just awful, how could a communications operator be without it? But they gave the basics of designing communication cabinets, which, of course, we shouldn't draw - there are mechanics-engineers for this. So it later happened to me at the factory, I had to forget something, and learn something. And this despite the fact that my department was "factory" - ie. trained specialists for a specific production.
  • alicante11
    alicante11 1 August 2016 09: 51
    +1
    Paid education cannot be good. Moreover, its presence only reduces the general level of training of students. And the more "commerce", the worse the general level of training.
    There are several reasons.
    1. A person, if he pays money, believes that he SHOULD GIVE AN EDUCATION. The fact that you also need to "take" it is the last thing they think about. Therefore, the logic of a modern student is as follows - "I paid the money, put the test / exam." And if you don’t, I’ll go to another institution, where they will deliver (and they’ll deliver), and you will be left without a salary. Moreover, the management of UZ (and even the TRADE UNION !!!) in this is completely on the side of the "merchant". The slogan is, if the student has tails, then the teacher is to blame.
    2. It is not the student who pays the money, but his PARENTS. So the idiots DO NOT care how the money got. Every year you have to witness "snotty" scenes when mom-dad, who got into loans for the sake of teaching their children, who by the 4th year of study, "scored" to study, tearfully beg "to give one more chance", otherwise they hoped that this miracle will go to work and will help to pay off loans, but we ourselves will not cope, we have a second grown up, dad lost his job, etc., etc.
    3. Commerce, which is "pulled" with its tails, shows everyone else that to get a "crust" you do not need to go to classes, complete assignments and take exams. The rest say, and what I am "oh well, to learn." As a result, academic performance falls for the entire group.
    1. atalef
      atalef 1 August 2016 12: 51
      0
      Quote: alicante11
      There are several reasons.
      1. If a person pays money, he believes that they SHOULD GIVE EDUCATION.

      belay , he should be taught qualitatively. the rest is his own business
      Quote: alicante11
      Therefore, the logic of the modern student is as follows - "I paid the money, put the test / exam". And if you don't put it, I'll go to another UZ

      then piss off.
      My daughter is studying at a private school. more expensive than any uni, I would like to see. if any of the students or parents would say this. tomorrow on the street - the line of WISHING to study is full

      Quote: alicante11
      . The slogan, if the student has tails, then the teacher is to blame.

      this is when the university is fighting for money, and not for the quality of training. They dig a hole for themselves. and then they are surprised as students
      Quote: alicante11
      It is not the student who pays the money - but his PARENTS. So do not care about how that money got.

      Parenting problems. Guilty Parents
      Quote: alicante11
      Every year you have to witness "snotty" scenes when mom-dad, who got into loans for the sake of teaching their children, who by the 4th year of study "hammered out" to study, tearfully beg "to give one more chance", otherwise they hoped that this miracle will go to work and will help to pay off loans, but we ourselves will not cope, we have a second grown up, dad lost his job, etc., etc.

      And helps?
      Quote: alicante11
      Commerce, which is "pulled" with its tails, shows everyone else that to get a "crust" you do not need to go to classes, complete assignments and pass exams. The rest say, and that I am "oh well, to learn." As a result, academic performance falls for the entire group.

      in the end, this system is worth nothing, as are students in it.
      In the world in the best universities, a paid education is very expensive. why doesn’t that happen in them. what do you describe
      maybe for one simple reason. In the store you can buy quality goods. and you can fake bullshit. and even spoiled.
      But it seems paid both there and there. wink
      and the result is different.
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 1 August 2016 14: 10
        0
        belay, he should be taught qualitatively. the rest is his own business


        You explain this to a student who has nothing in her mind besides girls and money. Remember yourself in those years.

        then piss off.


        So I say that they will "deliver", that is, he will still get his crust. And my prize will be cut.

        this is when the university is fighting for money, and not for the quality of training. They dig a hole for themselves. and then they are surprised as students


        And ALL fight for grandmas. Where there are grandmas, they will fight for them. And do not say that you do not fight.

        Parenting problems. Guilty Parents


        Here are just a lot of such "guilty". This is not an exception, but a rule.

        And helps?


        It depends. Much depends on the mood of teachers and on who exactly has the debt.

        in the end, this system is worth nothing, as are students in it.


        So what am I talking about? What nefig produce payers. It is necessary to teach those who want and are ready, and not those who can pay.

        In the world in the best universities, a paid education is very expensive. why doesn’t that happen in them. what do you describe


        Did you study in them? Or do you think that the son of an oligarch has to study in Oxford? I beg you. By the way, why is it, we are again on "you", and even with a capital letter? Are you cheating on your principles?

        maybe for one simple reason. In the store you can buy quality goods. and you can fake bullshit. and even spoiled.


        Or you can buy the same Chinese bullshit on the market "cheaply" in a boutique for crazy bucks.
        1. atalef
          atalef 1 August 2016 20: 34
          0
          Quote: alicante11
          You explain this to a student who has nothing in her mind besides girls and money. Remember yourself in those years

          This is in no way a professorial staff does not care.
          Do not want to learn - do not.
          Quote: alicante11
          As I say, they will "deliver", that is, he will still get his crust. And my prize will be cut.

          That's why they go with crusts from which - zero sense
          Quote: alicante11
          And ALL fight for grandmas. Where there are grandmas, they will fight for them. And do not say that you do not fight.

          No, they are fighting for a good level of education, and grandmas themselves will come. No fools, pay for crusts with which only the toilet
          Quote: alicante11
          It depends. Much depends on the mood of teachers and on who exactly has the debt.

          I don’t know how my son’s teacher looks like, I have never seen a single one.
          I generally can’t imagine the situation that parents go to the professor to ask for a son. Never heard of this
          Quote: alicante11
          Have you studied in them?

          The son studied and continues in the far from the most recent (in the world) university
          Quote: alicante11
          Or do you think the oligarch’s son at Oxford has to study?

          Oddly enough, of course, there are no people familiar with Oxford education, but there are Berkeley, Colombian, MIT. And everyone studied
          Quote: alicante11
          I beg you. By the way, why is it, we are again on "you", and even with a capital letter? Are you cheating on your principles?

          Heat damn, brains melt
          Quote: alicante11
          Or you can buy the same Chinese bullshit on the market "cheaply" in a boutique for crazy bucks.

          could be so.
  • alicante11
    alicante11 1 August 2016 09: 53
    +1
    With the need to close part of the universities, I completely agree. But I see the determining criterion for the existence of ultrasound up to the 91 year. Such, at least, one hundred percent have at least some base on which to train specialists.
    It is also necessary to remove non-core professions (lawyers and economists) from technical universities, let them better develop vocational education.
    Well, it is necessary to completely review the requirements for those areas where higher education is needed. If you need higher education to work on xerox in the copy center, then, of course, people are FORCED to get it.
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 1 August 2016 10: 05
    +4
    "Everything that was built by the grandfathers, and spilled by the blood of our fathers, we swore to save ...."
    Now education for money, tomorrow - medicine, the day after tomorrow - air and rain. Such "economic reforms" only lead to a deterioration in the social situation, an increase in tension, and separatism.
    With the cares of the current government and officials, our country is turning into an ugly clone of the United States.

    All people are equal and regardless of financial opportunities have the right to free education and medicine.
  • Jackking
    Jackking 1 August 2016 10: 23
    +3
    The author beautifully distorts the facts to please his opinion - presents the fee as a fence from the ignorant. In fact, all these paid institutions, "branches of the Moscow State University in the village of Gadyukino" appeared precisely because you can cut the dough. For the elitism of higher education, it is simply necessary that these very teachers do not look into the student's pocket, but check real knowledge and "smart" during admission. But since they earn money (and, judging by the text, they want to earn even more), then the children of the shopkeeper Ashot, who in his life has not paid a penny of taxes in the Russian Federation, will be treating us, and the children of the "racketeer Vova from Tambov" will be the judge ... why? And because only they can satisfy the financial appetites of such "teachers" ...
  • Awaz
    Awaz 1 August 2016 10: 38
    +2
    all of these articles with a charge on paid education, the desire of the authorities to withdraw their obligations. But the system for any need to be reformed. In any case, the state should provide free education for the main areas (teachers of doctors, specialists in scientific fields and so on for the military-industrial complex and law enforcement agencies) However, some other areas can be supported. Although paid tuition can be left for commercial structures. There, either the firms themselves should be trained for personnel, or people themselves must make their way after training. But free should not be a freebie. If a person has unlearned at the expense of the state, he must work for the state for some time or reimburse expenses.
    the topic is generally not simple and you just can’t cover everything
  • pofigisst74
    pofigisst74 1 August 2016 10: 53
    +4
    I would like to hear what the author would have said at a time when he himself received a FREE education, and someone demanded money from his parents. And now what about those whose parents cannot pay for their education? Whose salaries are barely enough for food and clothing? What to do with their children? Record in "those who did not fit into the market," in Chubais's words? Article minus! am
  • DPN
    DPN 1 August 2016 11: 11
    +1
    it seems that after the collapse of the USSR there is a continuous degradation of the majority of the people of Russia, at first they introduced a paid education, and now we collect food for the hungry, where are we going? Long live the capitalism built by Chubais and Yeltsin.
  • midshipman
    midshipman 1 August 2016 11: 47
    +6
    Education should be free, but targeted at the request of enterprises. So now they are gaining target groups in technical universities.
    I got a great education. He graduated from one university in 1963 (although he had a secondary technical education, but was already a lieutenant at 18). Then the target postgraduate study at NII-33 (worked as an engineer for 1 day). Targeted study in a special program at the University of Leningrad (the studies were conducted by professors Ladyzhenskaya, Kruglov). After that, the Ph.D. thesis on the automatic landing of fighters (1965). Chief designer of military hardware, Deputy Head of Research Institute-33. From 1979 to 1989 Head of the State Department of one of the defense ministries. He lectured in the USA, England, France (but not for long). Then a doctoral dissertation (Sov. Secret). Another university graduated.
    Currently (I’m already elderly, I have more than 300 scientific works, of which 42 are monographs and textbooks, more than 30 patents on military hardware and equipment, prepared more than 100 candidates and doctors) I head the basic department of one university and the Scientific secretary of one research institute. I told this to be seen - education should be targeted, then the Motherland will be useful. This applies to all areas and industries. I have the honor.
  • kolyhalovs
    kolyhalovs 1 August 2016 13: 19
    +3
    Owners of private high schools, numerous “institutes of innovations and commerce” will be hysterical. Which should have been overclocked for a long time and deprived of licenses as not meeting even the minimum requirements for an educational institution.


    That is, the author, putting forward the "wonderful" theory "higher education - for white people" for some reason does not ask the question, why, in fact, these pseudo-universities were not dispersed, simply taking money without giving education. So we don't have a supervisory authority? Are licenses issued on the subway? On the market? No, all this does not interest him. Let's increase the cost of education fivefold. Yes, they clap their hands. Even if the number of students falls by half - it's a net profit! Less worries - more money.
  • friend of animals
    friend of animals 1 August 2016 13: 49
    -1
    Higher education should not be an end in itself. If a person goes to a university just to get away from the army or just to get a crust, then you have to pay for it. Of course, talented children should also be looked for, but this should be done in schools and grants for their studies should be given to them, and not on the threshold of universities. Of course, the number of universities must be reduced by an order of magnitude, and they must be obliged to have contracts with employers. If the parents of the average goof have no money, and nature has not given brains, let him go to earn money on VO from the 9th grade. In schools, too, it is necessary to get rid of the study on the principle of "a little of everything", and after learning the basics, make the subjects of choice.

    Fans of everything free should remember that there is no Soviet Union, and in the market conditions "free" leads to a decrease in the quality of medicine, education, transport and other things. The social obligations of the state should be expressed in monetary assistance, not free services. The state should regulate the sphere, not manage it.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2016 14: 10
      0
      Quote: friend of beasts
      and oblige them to have agreements with employers

      and how do you imagine that ?!
      this could only be the Union
    2. Jackking
      Jackking 1 August 2016 16: 55
      +2
      And if the parents have no money, since the effective manager of the enterprise where the parents work does not pay the salary for six months, driving into debt? And the schools have already taken steps to natural selection - they don’t teach anything in principle, they only prepare for guessing in the USE. And paidness just leads to a decrease in the level, since children are given to study in the hope of collecting loot in medical schools, and it is precisely those who always thought about their pocket, and not about people ...
      1. nov_tech.vrn
        nov_tech.vrn 6 August 2016 08: 22
        0
        except for guessing in the exam, economic and accounting specialties are paid, even in state universities - and this is also a selection - there should not be economists from the poor
  • Cat
    Cat 1 August 2016 13: 59
    -1
    A month ago, I witnessed a conversation with a colleague where he will receive his second higher education, in a commercial university where he needs to study, or in a state university where it is reliably known that you can detach and everything will be okay.
    Not so simple.
    1. Jackking
      Jackking 1 August 2016 16: 58
      +3
      don’t tell my slippers - you need to study at a commercial university!? Diplomas of some commercial universities are sometimes even embarrassing to show decent people :)))
      And the words "not everything is so unambiguous" immediately conjures up thoughts about the daughter of a Crimean officer from Pennsylvania :)))
      1. Khariton
        Khariton 1 August 2016 19: 15
        -2
        Quote: Jackking
        don’t tell my slippers - you need to study at a commercial university!? Diplomas of some commercial universities are sometimes even embarrassing to show decent people :)))
        And the words "not everything is so unambiguous" immediately conjures up thoughts about the daughter of a Crimean officer from Pennsylvania :)))

        I, too, am ashamed of my diploma of the second highest ... (paid for it ..))) I studied in absentia, went to lectures, etc. all tried to do it myself, but it's not that men .. First in Soviet times! Even with triples, this is real and it really helped me in my life (although this was not a prestigious university and faculty) It was black and it was also printed on a typewriter .. In college (the state paid_, it was not a bad education either) .. Thinking there they made you, even if you didn’t teach the ticket, the teacher asks you questions and determines whether the passenger works for you or so ...
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 1 August 2016 14: 12
    0
    But by the way, a pluse from the heart.
    But the author, in my opinion, did not fully reveal the idea.
    A tower for the elite. But in return for the "lost" tower, the status of secondary specialized education must be raised.
    The same sales consultants, the same sales and purchase manager. work with clients.
    Well, if the market is interested in them. if the demand is consistently high, let's cook them.
    And let not a philosopher-historian-philologist come to the company, with nafig an unnecessary education.
    And a ready-made specialist will come, who will not need to be taught from scratch how to work in 1С and Excel.
    The same goes for electricians, plumbers, public transport drivers ...
    Secondary, the most sought-after education should be given in a quality manner.
    But let the wise men study neutrinos and graphenes, since they have enough brains for this.
    And to give the opportunity to grow up with secondary special education, if the skull is already squeezing.
    But this again, there will be a specialist who has grown from the bottom, and not figs understand who bought the crust.
  • Doppelgänger
    Doppelgänger 1 August 2016 15: 38
    +2
    Well, what can I say, the rating of the article speaks for itself ... Of course, I cannot voice the "first law of thermodynamics" either, that is, that is (three times) But on the other hand, who is: Pushkin, Lermontov, Gagarin, Zhukov , Lenin and the cruiser "Aurora" all the same I know ... But the younger generation with the exam mmm, to put it mildly, do not always know this. An example from personal experience, a 25-year-old girl does not know anything about the cruiser "Aurora", 25-year-old the young man believes that Lenin was at war with the Germans, about the Second World War, I did not dare to ask anything))) In my opinion, the author is an ardent adherent of the system of "Western education" only there are children in general ... so to speak do not shine. Yes, and teachers say that The USE-makes of children (about modern textbooks they say the same thing) Well, most importantly, where can parents get money FOR WHAT TO PAY? Of course, it is clear that it is beneficial for oligarchs to have illiterate workers, and even better, slaves, bring them who have no opinion about what ..... And by the way to the author, schoolchildren who know how much a chocolate bar and an iPhone are raised by the current education, that besides, maybe that's why they don't want to be workers and cosmonauts, but want bankers and managers?
  • Phosgene
    Phosgene 1 August 2016 16: 41
    +1
    Paid education leads to the fact that rich stupid people get diplomas, we already have this on the example of commercial universities
  • Nik2013
    Nik2013 1 August 2016 17: 32
    0
    Is it true that in France all education, secondary and higher is free
  • polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 1 August 2016 19: 12
    +2
    Stop polemicizing: -The Soviet education system was the best in the world !!! Copying Western education systems will not lead to anything good, now only a developed system of vocational schools, lyceums and technical schools will save us. It is training in them that will help a young person "understand himself", to understand what he is good for. Anyone with money can get a "crust" in a paid university, but this will not benefit anyone, not the state, not himself. Higher education is very much divorced from production. Only in vocational schools, lyceums, and technical schools this gap can be narrowed. The system of paid education must be covered up - this is a camouflaged money laundering, with the result "O" for the student and the state. Universities should be only state-owned.
    1. Khariton
      Khariton 1 August 2016 19: 39
      0
      Quote: polkovnik manuch
      Stop polemicizing: -Soviet education system was the best in the world !!!

      There is no arguing against the facts ... Who remembers history, Soviet Russia after the civil was completely destroyed and was (as usual, all in sanctions and complete blockade))) The fight against illiteracy and homelessness was announced! By the beginning of the Second World War, we could already produce quite competitive weapons (we didn’t have time), After the Victory we became a nuclear power (the country was even more destroyed than civilian) And then we are the first in space! It's all for the shortest and most difficult period of our country’s life ...
      But because we had our own system of education and selection of personnel for science, industry and agriculture ... The rise in all areas was unprecedented ..!
      And now the usual question "HOW MUCH and WHEN!" ... Everyone has diplomas in their hands and not one at a time ... But they are treated with contempt by many who remember and understand ... What is a REAL diploma and how it is given! I am a little emotionally, just sore ... And here's another thing that many liberals have forgotten, graduated from college and you have to work for three years in the wilderness for the good of the Motherland and it worked ... And now everything is in Moscow with their diplomas, straight trains (especially girls ..))))
  • trophy
    trophy 3 August 2016 09: 26
    0
    What a strange teacher this author is. Judging by the logical conclusions and the style of the article, it is more drawn to the manager. But didn’t this accidentally signor Livanov scratch?
  • SCI
    SCI 3 August 2016 12: 13
    0
    I will share my personal experience of how our state practically forces people to get paid education. Everyone knows such institutions as Baumanka and MAI. This year, 70-90% of places were taken by applicants in target areas. These educational institutions did not set mines. USE points for applying. As a result, those with mathematics, physics, computer science less than 50 and 40 points passed and became students there. The bulk of such applicants came from the PROMTORG of our defense industry. This is the future "engineering elite" of our country. Applicants with scores above 80 and 90 in various subjects are forced to stay behind the line, because places after the target groups are sometimes 3 and 5, and up to 1500 applicants. Crimea and target people were enrolled with 130 and 140 points.
  • Ruslan
    Ruslan 3 August 2016 13: 08
    0
    the author is driven. speaks of payment, but immediately declares talent and knowledge as criteria for admission to the higher. so money or talent? I agree that higher education has lost value due to the described problems. but I think the limiter should be knowledge. the complexity of exams at admission, the level of knowledge in studies. deduct all who have an average score in specialized subjects below 4,5. this will make education elitist. says student correspondence neither be nor me? Well, you have to put it bad and deduct. and paying, well, this will not change the situation, except that the rogue will not get crusts, and mediocrity, only the rich, will receive diplomas. although the problem is voiced right, but its solution is erroneous.
  • alexej123
    alexej123 4 August 2016 19: 09
    0
    I usually respect the work of others with respect, even if I don’t like the article, I don’t minus it. And here...
    Af tar in what "clouds" soars? Firstly, if you have a good memory and you remember the entire school curriculum and the "high school" THIS DOES NOT SAY THAT YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL IN YOUR BUSINESS. A good memory is one thing, but the correct application of knowledge is not much else. HSE has lost its value - my opinion. I will give an example of her specialty and why she "lost value" - a lawyer by training, graduated from the high school of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, law faculty. Now lawyers are like "dogs not cut". Previously, the specialty of a lawyer could only be obtained at universities, which were one per region, territory, republic, and in specialized institutions of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the KGB. Education was FREE, no tuition fees. Now in culinary institutes, in medical, pedagogical there are law schools, pay money and a diploma in the teeth. The diplomas of private sharags must be different from state universities and technical schools. He graduated from the Soviet technical school by his first education, so the competition for admission was 2,5 people per place. The only thing that needs to be done is to make the admission procedure as transparent as possible, and EVERYTHING.