Military Review

Pasta Monster Ilona Mask, or the logical result of the adventure

384
Pasta Monster Ilona Mask, or the logical result of the adventure



My young reader! Of course, you go to the rocket-modeling section, and you wonder why Russian engineers laugh like a horse from this Canadian father Ilona Mask - in an engineering sense, and not in the sense of a clever swindler, who launched the Invisible Hand of the Market into the American budget. (And he would have remained in the US budget, like his patrons from Congress, and God would be with them, with blue (in all senses) thieves, but we will talk about engineering nuances that are not customary to remember in the era of qualified consumers ).

First bored.

Rocketry, as a mechanical engineering industry, absorbs the knowledge and technology of metalworking, materials science, instrument engineering, mathematical modeling, defectoscopy, etc., each peep in this industry is protected by patents, often umbrella ones, all parts, components and products are repeatedly tested on super-expensive stands, with their own requirements, restrictions, tolerances and landings, this knowledge accumulates over the years and decades, this whole complex is worth not even hundreds of billions, but trillions of dollars, state tr Llion trillions from the American people the pocket.

But if you, as a state lobbyist, have a trillionth NASA, which, as a government organization, is accountable to a bunch of strict doctors-auditors, and you really really want to steal, then you need to come up with some kind of super-expensive project that, like a toad through a straw , it will be possible to inflate on the stock exchange, simultaneously pumping money out of the budget.

For this you:

- hire a chatty dude with shining eyes,

- hire a team of PR people, designers and other energetic as well as unprincipled people,

- register a private company in California, and this private company is not obliged to disclose the nuances of their financial health (gygy),

- merge into this sharagu: patents, technologies, finished projects, technical documentation (thousands of volumes and hundreds of thousands of drawings - but since this is the most shameless privatization of state intellectual property worth hundreds of billions of dollars from the people's pocket, you declare a talkative dude super-duper Inventor ) and ready-made labor collectives of real inventors (this is important - with whole teams) directly from NASA,

- pushing through the Congress Budget Committee the idea that in this way you reduce the burden on the NASA budget, especially on its retirement items (do we remember that NASA personnel - the coolest engineers - are gradually getting older?),

- you provide technical, technological, patent support to the newborn sharaga, connect military, intelligence and counterintelligence, silence hundreds and thousands of patent owners, silence tens and hundreds of journalists, who suddenly realize where it is better never to try to “dig”, otherwise fuck the wolf ticket, you connect to the Brilliant Company of Uniquely Suddenly Suddenly From Nowhere Aroused Brilliant Inventor dozens and hundreds of first-class media,

- you provide dozens and dozens of orders on the satellite services market to the Unique Genius Team of Young And Daring (yeah, anyone, anyone can go to where four star generals and tanned congressmen with noble gray hair graze),

- you negotiate with stockbrokers, brokers, rating agencies, bankers, with all this wolf pack, so that they “see where you need to see, and you don’t see where you don’t want, your head will snow, it will be very bad, doctors will be sent, you can accidentally drop out of the window, choking on a olive tree, raping a maid in flight - jamesbond services to choose from, ”

- but you can't deploy production of rockets directly at NASA facilities, so you are helping the newly minted team to find factories (the whole cooperation includes dozens and dozens of private, semi-and fully state-owned companies, often from the Pentagon department) with an aerospace background to rivet missiles on projects merged (gratis, i.e., from NASA),

- and - the cherry on the cake - you promise everyone that you are not just making rockets (NASA can do the same - and for what to make a garden?) - you promise that you are doing a Unique Program, THE FUTURE IN THE FUTURE !! 11 is one of many reusable rockets with landing on planet Earth! Hooray, victory, Hollywood catches multiple orgasms.

If you can crank it all up within a few months, then you are from the home team of America, no less. So, everything is ready for the divorce of suckers, all are ready, charged, discharged and excited.

But this, their mother, rocket! This is a fakinshit, planet Earth! And on it is gravity, the laws of nature and various minor engineering limitations.

Which ones?

This is a geostationary orbit where it is necessary to “hang” the satellites.

This is the ISS orbit where it has been lobbied (well, that everyone can, yes?) Cargo delivery by trucks and, in the long term, astronauts - living human people. (At the same time, the state-owned NASA is buying the services of a privately owned private company, which — see above — is not obliged to report on the structure of financial flows, shareholders, and so on.

These are the dimensions and the average mass of telecommunications and military satellites - several tons, at least (not to deal with microsatellites? All serious people, we work seriously).

Consequently, the rocket’s energy comes out of the orbital mass to the geostationary orbit and from the mass of trucks (and ships with people).

Naturally, you can’t just get a ready-made nasovian engine out of your pocket, because everyone will be surprised - what’s the uniqueness and ingenuity? Therefore, in your pocket you accidentally find the old Nasovskie drawings of the old engine from the American lunar landing module (who said the patents? Who said the stands?) And take this engine as the main cruiser. But such low-power engines need a lot, nine pieces at the start - but you shout loudly that this is a Breakthrough into the Future - and people eat it up.

Naturally, the technology of soft landing on the planet has been worked out for more than 60 years, so you take the same ideas from the lunar landing module, and attach landing supports to the rocket. But here the engineering joke begins - normal disposable rockets have reached such perfection that the walls of their design are as thin as possible; therefore, even the hardening of materials is taken into account by normal engineers when pouring tanks with liquid oxygen. And you are told that it is simply impossible to attach landing supports to these thin walls - therefore you need to fence support belts, thickenings all over the sidewall, hardening of the structure, put the drives for the “legs” - and this is all difficult, this is all construction, reinforcement, and constant weighting constructions, and not at all like at the beautiful presentation that you showed in Congress (or not you, but your tanned patron with a noble gray hair - and why does he have this whole headache? Decide, country girl, you were given money!) - and you cancer, put unique (I'm not I teach) engineering teams (which were given to you as slaves, en masse) - and they do the impossible - work out the unfortunate folding landing supports, do it perfectly, as true American engineers can ... but the whole meanness has not yet ended.

Naturally, for a soft landing of a rocket, you need a lot of fuel and an oxidizer - this is the very “dead” mass that is useless for putting a satellite into orbit, but you need to carry this weight in order to land your rocket on a platform in the ocean (here you scream wild cry, because for every extra kilogram of construction you need to take extra fuel - or reduce the declared orbital mass promised).

Naturally, having lunar technologies, a bunch of lunar engines, you are trying to somehow save on construction. The most important thing is that you cannot produce your own rocket at the cosmodrome itself - there are no such fakinite technologists, workers, welders, metallurgists, mechanics and all this rabble who wants to eat and fuck women, so you should try to save at least somehow deliver the missile in parts to the Vanderberg military base (who said - the Pentagon?) - and how to do it, except by rail ??

And here comes His awesome Majesty - Railway Envelope. You cannot change bridges, crossings, contact lines along the entire length of the route from the factory to the launch complex, so you must enter the design in the maximum size of the 3.7 meter.

THREE WHOLE SEVEN TENTH faknashit meter. That's all you can. Do you understand? You, the lord of the United States, who has put everyone in cancer, are forced to reckon with the railway envelope.

Oh Kay, cowboys, so what happens with our nine “Merlins” and the 3.7 railway gauge? And it turns out a wild, sticky horror of an engineer - in order to stuff so much fuel and oxidizer in order to pull the promised cargo into orbit, you need to make a rocket high ... high ... (lift the meter, it is ugly lying in a swoon) - 70 (in words - SEVEN) meters .

You feel bad. You really feel bad - with the diameter of 3.7 meter you need to ensure the flight strength of the macaroni length of 70 meters (divide 70 by 3.7 and get the ratio 18.9 - one to nineteen!). The worst thing is that you need to ensure the sustainability of this “macaroni” on the platform in the ocean (who said - the waves?) - columns, 70 meters in height, - and keep it under normal breeze (who said - wind pressure ?!). You are very bad - you need to increase the "legs". They corny should be longer. With their dimensions, they need to be made thicker, stronger (who said - we cut by weight ?!). For every extra kilogram of "legs", for every extra kilogram of "macaroni" - you need extra fuel and oxygen.

Fakinshit. Riley Fakinshit.

You are trying to improve the engineering quality of this pasta monster. You accidentally get out of wide trousers the technology of supercooling kerosene and oxygen - so you can shove more fuel and oxidizer at least a few percent into the same tanks - and you are silent about the price of this technology - it's a loss and cost, it's all worth the money , not provided for in any estimates, but you already do not care about estimates - you need to serve the "macaroni god" and the physical laws of the planet Earth.

But you are the owner of America. You have a headache. Your clown is jumping in all the media, and your colleagues from the Committee ask you: “Listen, Billy, buddy, well, what's up with the dividends?”

Uncomfortable in front of boys.

And your engineering bastard, the size of a heavy-class rocket, clamped by a railway envelope, burdened with “legs” and a dead landing fuel stock, begins to put into orbit (you, nevertheless, have first-class slaves who once worked at NASA) orbital load which can be launched by a light rocket (well, well, light-middle class).

Under the friendly neighing of Russians and Europeans. Even the Chinese are giggling.

But you are the master of America. And you, stung by a coyote, howling through hundreds and thousands of pocket media all over the planet Earth, that your “macaroni” is about to sit down. She falls once, she falls two - but here's the landing !!! You managed not to drop the "macaroni"! You have the best programmers on the planet.

What's next? And then - the most boring - you need to redefine all the “macaroni” and examine - whether it can, the space structure, the triumph of materials science and engineering, start again - it is necessary to study how each element, every fakinchit gasket, went through the overload, temperature and vibration if there are no microcracks in every detail, in every weld, and if there are no defects in each information cable. And you have - ma-ka-ro-ni-na - with nine antediluvian lunar engines, consisting of hundreds of thousands of parts, assemblies and mechanisms. And each knot should work smoothly - after landing - and work again on overloads.

And you, almost the owner of America, a brilliant promoter who has put hundreds of thousands of specialists in cancer, from a fucking engineer to four-star generals, from a PR girl to a smart banker from Bank O Which is Best Forget - you understand that you have to reach the end of the presidential the term of that dark-skinned guy with a tired look, do not get a bullet, do not fall out of the window, do not choke on the olive tree and, God forbid, do not rape the maid.

And what about your brisk boy with arrogant eyes? And today he is compelled to publicly announce that the successfully set down rocket - according to the results of the survey - is unsuitable for a restart.


Oh fucking shit ...

(thanks to Alexey Shironin for the tip on the link)

Author:
Originator:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1128071823923229&id=100001612675483
384 comments
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  1. soroKING
    soroKING 18 May 2016 15: 34
    +8
    reusable slipper was already hi
    1. Vend
      Vend 18 May 2016 15: 57
      +77
      I read it with interest. I'm not a technician, but I suspected something like that. And here the author painted everything so intelligibly. +
      1. Letun
        Letun 18 May 2016 16: 17
        +185
        I swear, this is one of the best articles that I read on in all time! laughing Subtle humor on the verge of a foul, a lot of technical subtleties described by a language quite understandable to the average man, to the best of caustic sarcasm lol
        Respect and honor to the author fellow
        1. bulvas
          bulvas 18 May 2016 16: 28
          +45
          Funny.

          What remains to be done after such breakthroughs?

          - right, screaming that Russians are the main threat to America and the whole world


          1. Warbird # 4
            Warbird # 4 18 May 2016 18: 14
            +13
            "Saw Shura, Saw" remains. I'm talking about the us budget. laughing
            1. Thrall
              Thrall 20 May 2016 11: 04
              +7
              I have an idea:
              1. Gogia
                Gogia 20 May 2016 13: 25
                +1
                The idea of ​​rubber balls for the war against China is already being considered by the Pentagon !!! wassat wassat wassat wassat wassat wassat wassat
                And they will be launched by this very rocket !!!
                1. military_cat
                  military_cat 19 December 2020 18: 07
                  0
                  How fun it is to reread an article from almost 2021. Thanks to the author for the good mood.
        2. razmik72
          razmik72 18 May 2016 17: 23
          0
          Quote: Letun
          I swear, this is one of the best articles that I read on in all time! laughing Subtle humor on the verge of a foul, a lot of technical subtleties described by a language quite understandable to the average man, to the best of caustic sarcasm lol
          Respect and honor to the author fellow

          The author does not raise his hand to write "articles", this opus, as you noticed, is very subtle humor, there is nowhere more subtle. Here are a few quotations: "s.franny engineer", "girl from the PR service" receive a decent salary by all standards and at the very least move forward technical progress - this side of the question of the author of this opus is not interested.
          1. samoletil18
            samoletil18 18 May 2016 17: 31
            +76
            Quote: razmik72
            razmik72!
            If you studied well at school, then even the level of a graduate of a Soviet high school is enough to understand technical problems, and a minimal economic educational program will allow you to estimate costs.
            the author is right.
          2. RomanS
            RomanS 18 May 2016 20: 57
            +24
            You see, a colleague, moving forward depends solely on the reporting point and coordinate system. (Cancer, in its own way, also moves forward. This is his methodology.)
          3. AllXVahhaB
            AllXVahhaB 19 May 2016 07: 52
            +4
            So it’s very clearly described how they move this NTP)))
            1. Altona
              Altona 19 May 2016 12: 33
              +20
              Quote: AllXVahhaB
              So it’s very clearly described how they move this NTP)))

              ------------------------
              By the way, I will insert my 5 kopecks, since I did not see this article yesterday. Described in the article is fully suitable for the former Soviet factories and companies for which many research institutes worked. During the privatization period, all the scientific, design and technological baggage is in the hands of dubious businessmen, and engineers turn out to be slaves working for 20 thousand rubles. And also there are "breakthrough" developments, which were well worked out during the Soviet regime, it is just that at the present time they can be supplied with a more perfect information and element base, which makes them "smarter" and lighter. But this is a topic for a separate article.
              1. bunta
                bunta 19 May 2016 15: 41
                +1
                I completely agree with you, this is the first thought that comes to mind after reading this article!
          4. mostov70
            mostov70 20 May 2016 00: 05
            +5
            The PR service is driving technological progress - did you understand that you froze?
          5. Gogia
            Gogia 20 May 2016 13: 24
            +2
            Fortunately, this was not a forward movement, but a reverse movement on the diagonal%))))) This problem was discussed at the very beginning of this adventure !!!!!! In your rocket, the most yours is the engine, but when operating in super mode, even it receives damage incompatible with further safe launches. Some technologies make it possible to make the resource of the most critical parts capable of secondary, etc. operation, but a lot of things have to be replaced. Not to mention the rocket hull, which without folding the tanks can fold under its own weight.
            Let's just keep the marching engines of the first stage :))))
        3. iwind
          iwind 18 May 2016 18: 01
          +15
          Quote: Letun
          I swear, this is one of the best articles that I read on in all time!

          Then it is very sad ....
          Quote: author
          to save money somehow, they should deliver the rocket in parts to the Vanderberg military base (who said - the Pentagon?) - but how to do this, except by rail ??


          Flacon 9 is not transported by train.
          Quote: author
          Therefore, you accidentally find in your pocket the exhausted Nasov drawings of the old engine from the American lunar lander (who said patents? Who said stands?)

          Compare the landing of the lunar module weighing 4 kg without atmospheres and with a gravity of 670 m / s² ..... From the first stage weighing 1,622 tons .... well, approx.
          why then all this?

          Quote: author
          You are trying to improve the engineering quality of this pasta monster. You, quite by accident, get the technology of supercooling of kerosene and oxygen from wide legs

          mmm union? The Soyuz launch vehicle uses supercooled oxygen with a density of 1,250 t / m3 as fuel. This is a common practice for rockets.
          Quote: author
          take this engine as the main marching. But such low-power engines need a lot, nine pieces

          The Union has similar approaches. Decided many smaller than one big. This is neither bad nor good. And for reliability, it is even better to refuse one not to disaster.
          1. opus
            opus 18 May 2016 21: 13
            +14
            Quote: iwind
            The Union has similar approaches.

            iwind ... not quite correct example (with the Union).
            correction:
            RD-107 there are only 5 of them there (Ilon Lapot, aatstoy, as an "operator" would say, and there are hundreds of nozzles ... these are cameras.

            LRE without TNA. wink
            Tna one
            However, this is the same indicator of manufacturability.
            creating a large COP is very difficult / expensive.
            comparison example is better than H1-L3
            1. iwind
              iwind 18 May 2016 21: 59
              0
              Quote: opus
              iwind ... not quite correct example (with the Union).
              correction:
              RD-107 there are only 5 of them there (Ilon Lapot, aatstoy, as an "operator" would say, and there are hundreds of nozzles ... these are cameras.

              Thank you.
              Quote: opus
              I’ll remind you.
              NASA it is, it is software (I translate the PUBLIC Society, I’m not sure that the joint-stock company)
              public.
              MUST publish information (all) within 24 hours -72 hours, in accordance with federal law of the United States.
              Slam, hide there oh how not easy.
              This is not Roskosmos for you

              Yeah. in this they are well done. The whole fin. documents are enclosed.
              http://www.nasa.gov/content/nasa-releases-cots-final-report
              http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/453605main_Commercial_Space_Minutes_4_26_2010.pdf
              in a short time everything can be found.
            2. oops
              oops 19 May 2016 22: 04
              +1
              Engines are made multi-chamber not because of technological limitations (the most powerful engines in the world are the Soviet RD170 (RD171?)), But because of their greater efficiency: in the atmosphere, due to air counteraction, one large nozzle loses to several smaller ones. A retractable nozzle is installed on military missiles: take-off in the atmosphere passes with a small nozzle, and then a nozzle increases on the expander.
          2. AllXVahhaB
            AllXVahhaB 19 May 2016 07: 54
            +4
            These are not engines, these are nozzles! Learn mat.chast !!!
          3. 97110
            97110 19 May 2016 15: 38
            +3
            Quote: iwind
            Bottle 9

            Here the humor is even subtler. Bravo!
        4. opus
          opus 18 May 2016 18: 05
          +1
          Quote: Letun
          mass of technical subtleties described

          where did you see the technical subtleties? A lot of blunders, juggling, delirium and outright lies.
          Comrade Kaptsov (sweetSixt) writes "more technically".
          and "more critical" let's say so.
          and then sheer populism, "the result of the week" more.

          I am "humor" yes, caustic.

          Chess, speaking from a graduate of "Technics and Physics of Low Temperatures," expected more than Bauman Moscow State Technical University.

          Start:
          Quote: Author
          and not in the sense of a clever swindler, who on the shoulder launched the Invisible Hand of the Market into the American budget.

          You can not read furtherboy Russian citizen so caring about the american budget ....causes at least bewilderment.
          Termination
          Quote: Author
          And what about your a smart kid with arrogant eyes? And today he is forced to publicly declare that a successfully launched missile, according to the results of the survey, is unsuitable for re-launch.

          Oh fucking shit ...

          Yes Yes...
          Chess, speaking from a graduate of "Technics and Physics of Low Temperatures," expected more than Bauman Moscow State Technical University.

          Is this about Elon Reeve Musk? I don't know what a graduate of MSTU did (Born in Ukraine. Married, two sons, grandson. First higher education - mechanical engineer, "Low Temperature Engineering and Physics") ... but Ilan (Pay Pal, Zip2, SpaceX, SolarCity , Tesla Motors and it will still be) the businessman of the year 2013, and The Wall Street Journal named the CEO the same like 2013
          Found a "kid"

          probably played:
          Dmitry Konanykhin author of several good-quality "Soviet" novels - about war and loveabout meaning life and meaning stories and so on.
          inferiority complex a person who spent his best years getting technical education in one of the best universities in the USSR?

          1. iwind
            iwind 18 May 2016 18: 16
            +2
            Quote: opus
            and then sheer populism, "the result of the week" more.

            they wrote right at the same time. wink
            I once wrote to you that the F-35 situation amuses me. It seems I have found something new for myself, since it causes such a mmmm, let there be a "rush", I will need to read about the Flacon 9.
            And all because of a harmless tweet.
            "Most recent rocket took max damage, due to v high entry velocity. Will be our life leader for ground tests to confirm others are good. "
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 18 May 2016 19: 30
              +1
              Better than the story about our Roskosmos - that’s where the hype will be serious.
            2. kugelblitz
              kugelblitz 18 May 2016 21: 17
              +4
              Well, for example, if only because of this, but what happens to the tanks? Tea not made of nickel alloys? wassat

              1. Observer2014
                Observer2014 20 May 2016 00: 42
                +1
                kugelblitz
                Colleaguehi
                And you admit that the central engine. It is not crookedly fixed. But it’s just an engine intended for control. That’s in what position it "froze" during installation and preliminary testing. Is that how the rocket is transported ?! repeat
                1. opus
                  opus 20 May 2016 02: 44
                  +2
                  Quote: Observer2014
                  Not crookedly fixed.

                  this is after landing (Central in my opinion does not change the thrust vector)
                  The hinge / suspension is damaged, the cover that protects the GC is the same, the actuators are most likely


                  Step to the dump. LRE seems to be there too.
                  Stroopmely - that would not fall off at all


                  It should be like this:


                  and this is "transport"

                  1. iwind
                    iwind 20 May 2016 10: 54
                    +2
                    Quote: opus
                    it is after landing

                    SpeaX was initially skeptical about this very high speed and the orbit was not comfortable. Instead of three braking applied two
                    Entry burn: 25 s - three engines.
                    Landing burn: 13 s - three engines, 2 s - one engine
                    and one engine is usually used, and here three at once. It turns out economical, but the load on the rocket is growing. Here they have two options to either further refine the new scheme or return from the old (soft) one. But in general, the fellows are looking for new ideas and options.
                    That everything worked out the first time, well, unfortunately this does not happen. Sometimes you get so many cones recourse
                    Quote: kugelblitz
                    And here there were pictures of melted tanks, which formed in accordion

                    hmm ... where is the accordion? Yes, and the melting is not visible standard dig like others
                    1. opus
                      opus 20 May 2016 12: 56
                      +1
                      Quote: iwind
                      SpeaX was initially skeptical about this very high speed and the orbit was not comfortable

                      1. Orbit has nothing to do with it.
                      2. Is the speed "uncomfortable"? and what is "convenient" belay
                      There, the pitch angle was still not large (linear velocity relative to the ground is small), and the vertical one is extinguished by gravity
                      The bottom line is that the stage of the rocket engine (not with solid propellant rocket engine) is just a thin-walled barrel, after the fuel has been drained from it and the boost has been removed (drainage) it resembles a paper cup in strength.

                      aerodynamics vomits him.
                      Quote: iwind
                      Here they have two options to either further refine the new scheme or return from the old (soft) one. But in general, the fellows are looking for new ideas and options.

                      As I wrote to Ilona ... I was surprised that they did not use the FREEZE: atmosphere.
                      In any case, the parachute / rotor wing system of modern materials is lighter than the fuel supply on board, the operating time of the rocket engine is shorter (longer lives for subsequent ones), it has excellent damping properties.
                      Why not?

                      We are on Earth.
                      ------------------------------------------
                      It’s true for the Americans, somehow it’s all specific belay


                      Quote: iwind
                      standard dig like others



                      WHERE IS THE MASTER?
                      1. iwind
                        iwind 20 May 2016 13: 42
                        0
                        Quote: opus
                        As I wrote to Ilona ... I was surprised that they did not use the FREEZE: atmosphere.
                        In any case, the parachute / rotor wing system of modern materials is lighter than the fuel supply on board, the operating time of the rocket engine is shorter (longer lives for subsequent ones), it has excellent damping properties.
                        Why not?

                        There are already a lot of mines broken. Spices decide that they are effective without parachutes.
                        http://zelenyikot.com/the-test-launch-of-spacecraft-in-usa/
                        http://thealphacentauri.net/why-spacex-makes-ocean-landing/
                        Quote: opus
                        WHERE IS THE MASTER?

                        I don’t argue that she is not there ...
                        Quote: opus
                        1. Orbit has nothing to do with it.
                        2. Is the speed "uncomfortable"? and what is "convenient"
                        There, the pitch angle was still not large (linear velocity relative to the ground is small), and the vertical one is extinguished by gravity
                        The bottom line is that the stage of the rocket engine (not with solid propellant rocket engine) is just a thin-walled barrel, after the fuel has been drained from it and the boost has been removed (drainage) it resembles a paper cup in strength.

                        about orbit, the first stage worked longer than in other flights and mountains, the speed was higher than it had to be extinguished. There was not one braking impulse to the engines, and then immediately 3 engines.
                      2. opus
                        opus 20 May 2016 14: 20
                        +3
                        Quote: iwind
                        Spices decide that they are effective without parachutes.

                        if you sit on a specific platform, then yes.
                        if you don’t get attached to the site - from an engineering point of view - stupidity

                        Freebie under your feet (planes fly, land, parachutes, balloons)
                        Quote: iwind
                        about orbit, the first stage worked longer than in other flights and mountains, the speed was higher than it had to be extinguished.

                        I know all the "speeds" (and saw with our eyes, many, 3 months of Baikonur and Plesetsk together).
                        -The goal of the first stage is MAXIMUM to quickly overcome the dense layers of the atmosphere, therefore the pitch angle and horizontal speed are relatively small.
                        he needed a braking impulse so that he would not fly far from the platform (the businessman of logistics defeated the businessman of engineer)

                        wouldn’t snap to the platform, the linear velocity would be extinguished by the atmosphere to 100-200m / s, then the parachute system, then the braking impulse during splashdown / landing.
                        I think integrity would be at the level of 95%
                        I think he will return to the parachute, wing, rotor.
                        Ilon let slip at a conference at MIT that he had conceived of a no-fire system as a stage for working out the landing on Mars / Moon, where with the atmosphere ... not really
                      3. Asadullah
                        Asadullah 20 May 2016 20: 58
                        +1
                        I think he will return to the parachute, wing, rotor


                        Rather, it will be something combined. Calculations are already underway.

                        Incidentally, smile for some reason, against the background of the majority kicking Mask (well, I don’t enter for anything) nobody mentioned Abramovich and Prokhorov, who have more money. Domestic billionaires are limited to yachts and expensive whores in Courchevel.
                      4. opus
                        opus 21 May 2016 01: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: Asadullah
                        mentioned Abramovich and Prokhorov, who have more money. Domestic billionaires are limited to yachts and expensive whores in Courchevel.

                        IN.
                        Thank you.
                        There are still normal people with us.
                  2. Operator
                    Operator 20 May 2016 16: 22
                    +1
                    Advertising is the engine of the project. Sitting clean on a rocket is more spectacular than combined using a parachute system.
                    And then - the project should have at least one innovation laughing
          2. kugelblitz
            kugelblitz 20 May 2016 07: 00
            +7
            And here there were pictures of melted tanks, which developed into an accordion. wassat

            1. opus
              opus 20 May 2016 12: 44
              +1
              Quote: kugelblitz
              But there

              "appeared" ...
              1. I posted this photo 3 a day ago
              2.Harmonica is not here, and close

              in tse accordion:


              Quote: kugelblitz
              melted tanks

              mdyayaya ...

              Is it "melted"?



              Even Tse is not fused:


              TZP demolished / burned as expected
              1. kugelblitz
                kugelblitz 20 May 2016 14: 09
                +2
                I hope you do not plan to make a hole in the barge, boil water in the ocean and launch a rocket with compressed air from a huge pipe? wassat
                1. opus
                  opus 20 May 2016 14: 40
                  +1
                  Quote: kugelblitz
                  I hope you do not plan to make a hole in the barge, boil water in the ocean and launch a rocket with compressed air from a huge pipe

                  As a MAN (the father of 2 official children, in any case) and an engineer, I use the words "hole" only in relation to ... you know what.
                  I'm not Dimon Rogozin, my education is not economic / journalistic.
                  I prefer the term "hole" for a barge
                  Questions (.No kuya did not understand!):
                  2. Which barge, which hole / hole?
                  3. Who needs to "boil water in an okiyane"?
                  4. What pipe and where does the air compression?
                  =====================================
                  Are you there that drank something hot?
                  So early isho.
                  Speak more clearly
                2. kugelblitz
                  kugelblitz 20 May 2016 16: 03
                  +2
                  You do not boil so immediately! These are the fruits of the scientific search for commentators from LJ Colonel! wassat
                  Read more http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2753099.html
                3. opus
                  opus 20 May 2016 16: 30
                  +1
                  Quote: kugelblitz
                  You do not boil so immediately!

                  Where am I "fuming"?
                  Quote: kugelblitz
                  with LJ Colonel!

                  Yes, I will not read this heresy.

                  Colonel at least

                  ?
                  ----------------------------
                  I have already unsubscribed to the author in the FB and LJ
                  Dmitry Konanykhin "Low Temperature Engineering and Physics" MVTU im. Bauman, 1987 - 1993 Very strange! For baumanka

                  Unless TIFNT is special "AM"
                  "If you absolutely come to our AM" ™ Bauman Moscow State Technical University.
                  probably played a role:

                  и
                  VKSH VAVT, 1998 - 2000 (Higher a commercial VAVT school Ministry of Economic Development Russia)
                  Graduates there are "famous"

        5. Operator
          Operator 20 May 2016 16: 31
          +1
          Thanks for the photo - I didn’t think that Elon Musk was so adventurous that he simply couldn’t calculate the aerodynamic loads on the first-stage body (either supercharged or non-supercharged after running out of fuel) during braking in the atmosphere and active descent with the engine running.
          Programmer cho bully
          1. opus
            opus 20 May 2016 17: 20
            +1
            Quote: Operator
            that just did not count the aerodynamic loads on the body of the first stage

            This is not from "aerodynamic loading".
            AED would siphon a weak structure
            This is the effect of overload during landing, when ALMOST an empty thin-walled pipe flops onto the platform.
  2. opus
    opus 18 May 2016 21: 29
    +1
    Quote: iwind
    right at the same time wrote


    wink

    Quote: iwind
    And all because of a harmless tweet.



    Quote: opus
    probably played:

    And I found !!!!!
    1. Victim of perestroika (graduated from 1992-1993)
    2. Something torments me faculty "AM"
    Well, the MOST IMPORTANT
    3.VKSH VAVT, 1998 - 2000!
    Higher a commercial VAVT school Development of Russia here she is the "boy" Dimona and finished.
    and Slang, then slang in an article which

    Quote: Author
    Oh fucking shit ...

    where does the administration look?
    I got banned for less
    1. iwind
      iwind 19 May 2016 13: 47
      0
      Quote: opus
      And I found !!!!!

      About how many minuses were stuck (to everyone who at least writes something good about SpeaX) - this perfectly. But why is it invoking such burning? Well flies and flies. We will see what comes of this. While it is very competitive especially in the USA (ULA).
      For orders for years 2-3
      The main plus of SpaceX is what will make other companies stir and come up with something new, otherwise in recent times everything is sad.
      1. opus
        opus 20 May 2016 02: 53
        +1
        Quote: iwind
        But why is it invoking such burning?

        Pink glasses make life easier


        And so ("-") and relieved, and "supported the state."


        Something this reminds me of:

        ?
  • Operator
    Operator 18 May 2016 19: 17
    +17
    Ilon Musk is the figurehead of the American budget sawyers (10 billion with hooks, excellent gesheft).

    Falcon's useless "reusable" first stage is nothing more than a publicity stunt designed to mask the lack of technical innovations and the unprofitable project for end customers - NASA and the Pentagon.
    1. iwind
      iwind 18 May 2016 20: 10
      +7
      Quote: Operator
      Elon Musk - the frontman of the sawmills of the American budget (10 billion with a hook, an excellent gesheft)

      and can you transfer proofs to these 10 billion? for curiosity, I looked at the funding he received under the contracts for the defined results. For example, COTS for the creation of a cargo delivery rocket (ISS) and CRS for 1,6 billion for 12 flights to the ISS with cargo. Pay him for the result. The same United Launch Alliance gets much more ... launch cost "The average price of a mission, accounting for all current firm contracts for Atlas and Delta launch services, is $ 225 million"
      http://www.ulalaunch.com/faqs-launch-costs.aspx

      And yes, SpeacX's main orders are Nasa’s commercial cargo of all this year. There’s only 4. The Pentagon generally has only one new contract for 2018, and it’s half as much as ULA.
      At the expense of NASA patents, they are free to American companies (public domain licensing)
      1. opus
        opus 18 May 2016 21: 35
        +1
        Quote: iwind
        Pay him for the result.


        I’ll remind you.
        NASA it is, it is software (I translate the PUBLIC Society, I’m not sure that the joint-stock company)
        public.
        MUST publish information (all) within 24 hours -72 hours, in accordance with federal law of the United States.
        Slam, hide there oh how not easy.
        This is not Roskosmos for you
      2. Operator
        Operator 18 May 2016 21: 49
        +8
        This is called prepayment, an advance for future transportation services. In commerce, this is also called an interest-free targeted loan.

        Interestingly, will you, me or, for example, Solomonov (MIT) be given an advance for at least 1,6 billion dollars for several years, and will not even be reminded of the deadlines? laughing
        1. iwind
          iwind 18 May 2016 22: 07
          -6
          Quote: Operator
          Interestingly, will you, me or, for example, Solomonov (MIT) be given an advance for at least 1,6 billion dollars for several years, and will not even be reminded of the deadlines?

          They also reminded me how.
          And yes they will give out if you can prove that you are capable of doing this. Just recently issued orbital atk. SpeacX already has $ 18bn emnip for commercial contracts

          Ila (proton-m) has only 3 com. contract for 2016, and then no better. That's what you need to worry about and promote your own. And the fact that SpaceX is' is their business.
          about money henceforth and com. loan

      3. KaPToC
        KaPToC 19 May 2016 13: 33
        +5
        What proofs? Okst, nowhere have I seen a proof of Putin's billions in Western banks.
        1. iwind
          iwind 19 May 2016 13: 52
          0
          Quote: KaPToC
          What proofs? Okst, nowhere have I seen a proof of Putin's billions in Western banks.

          For NASA contracts worth tens of billions of dollars, all NASA contracts are in the public domain. And as I wrote ULA and Boing, etc. will receive a lot of money for their projects.
          NASA patents are generally free.
          ps and where does Putin? we're talking about rockets.
          1. Operator
            Operator 19 May 2016 15: 30
            +9
            This is not about NASA patents, the text of which is freely available by definition and commercial use of which is free for American citizens and corporations.

            It is about know-how, i.e. design and technological documentation that just will not give any American.

            For some reason, the South African Mask was given access to know-how, and the multi-billion-dollar prepayment was long listed after something took off, landed safely and at least once repeated this feat, not to mention ten.

            So experimental design work is not carried out (since there is always a risk of failure), so the budget is sawn (after us at least a flood, that is, Zits-chairman Mask) bully
            1. iwind
              iwind 19 May 2016 16: 20
              -1
              Quote: Operator
              This is not about NASA patents, the text of which is freely available by definition and commercial use of which is free for American citizens and corporations.

              Just do not give, you need to prove that you will provide the result. But nasa's technical achievement is, by definition, free for US companies. https://technology.nasa.gov/
              Quote: Operator
              the multibillion-dollar prepayment was long listed as the way something took off, landed safely and at least once repeated this feat, not to mention ten.

              And how is it done? Or for example, the Angara was paid only after the first flight? Gos. R & D orders the organization conduct it.
              I can immediately bring contracts when R&D is being paid before the first flight. Boing 4,6 billion on the CST-100, although when it still flies, recently there was another transfer for 8 months ..
              And they don’t pay for the landing, they scorch for the delivery of PN, and what will happen from the first foot is SpaecX’s business
              Quote: Operator
              multi-billion prepayment transferred long

              not a billion, but a rather modest amount of $ 278 million. Payment was made in parts for specific results (highlighted)
              contract, designed by NASA to provide for developing new boosters, paid SpaceX $ 278 million to develop the Falcon 9 launch vehicle, with incentive payments paid at milestones culminating in three demonstration launches
              .http: //www.nasa.gov/pdf/453605main_Commercial_Space_Minutes_4_26_2010.pdf and so on.
              Quote: Operator
              so the budget is sawn (after us, at least the flood, that is, zits-chairman Musk)

              the budget is sawn up when there is no result or it is extremely small. And at the moment, Speax is already twice as cheaper as ULA and has commercial contracts for several years in advance, even if tomorrow the nasa and the more so the Pentagon (which has signed only one contract in the history) refuse, then for SpaecX this will not be ruined.
              1. Operator
                Operator 19 May 2016 17: 34
                +6
                How can you prove that you will present the result in a completely new field for you - nothing but backstage arrangements.

                Any development in any country without fail passes through a number of stages that are paid strictly for the targeted way - research work, development work, trial operation. At any stage, development can be stopped if a negative result is obtained. This minimizes financial losses and at the same time respects the customer’s ownership rights to know-how.

                In the case of Musk, under his idea of ​​a reusable first stage, which had never been tested in practice, an advance payment for future services was immediately rolled out, not targeted funding, thus giving Mask the right to own a budget-paid decision.

                As far as I understand, all the deadlines are broken - the first stage has never taken off again. There is a disruption in the provision of the advanced service, and there are no sanctions for the diversion of funds from the budget. Great cut, however.

                If Musk is really up to the fig of commercial customers, why has he still not returned a multi-billion advance to the state budget?
              2. iwind
                iwind 19 May 2016 17: 53
                -1
                Quote: Operator
                If Musk is really up to the fig of commercial customers, why has he still not returned a multi-billion advance to the state budget?

                what avnas? And why if, everything is in the public domain.
                Quote: Operator
                In the case of Musk, under his idea of ​​a reusable first stage, which had never been tested in practice, an advance payment for future services was immediately rolled out, not targeted funding, thus giving Mask the right to own a budget-paid decision. As I understand it , all deadlines have been disrupted - the first stage has never taken off again. There is a disruption in the provision of the advanced service, and there are no sanctions for the diversion of funds from the budget. Great cut, however

                Lord Well, how many times to write. NOBODY paid for the return of the first stage. Payment only delivery mon. What will happen from Stage 1 does not concern customers at all. Well, except that the discount on the launch when using the bu step.
                SpaecX pledged to deliver the cargo to the ISS — it performs this and cheaper than Ula. What are their complaints?
                I already brought the contact text for the development of Falcon 9 and they just received the money in stages.
                Well, again, a video about the stages of Flacon-9.
              3. Gogia
                Gogia 20 May 2016 13: 43
                0
                Look at how much the Angara costs and how much the government has spent on it. Our space budget is much more modest. And the fact that Protons are falling - it has a much worse effect on our commerce .... It is clear that the volume of R&D they have is several times greater than ours. They have the financial ability to be wrong. But the Khrunichev Center no longer has !!! China will soon overtake us in commercial launches. So there is no need to laugh - you need to plow and drive "successful managers" with a filthy broom from such industries.
              4. yehat
                yehat 20 May 2016 14: 06
                0
                Protons fall because the process of public procurement and control does not provide quality at all. I’m silent about personnel problems. Our deputies tried to adopt a law that literally makes you buy when everyone understands that you need to take something else. And they cannot, because SUCH A PROCEDURE is by law.
                And the proportion of Chinese components is growing, reliability is falling throughout the defense industry, not just missiles.
              5. iwind
                iwind 20 May 2016 20: 23
                +1
                Quote: Gogia
                Soon, China will overtake us on commercial launches. So you don’t need to laugh - you need to plow

                exactly. It’s easy to laugh only now that we have now. Proton-m 3 (three) commercial launches in 2016, but damn the dear Arian-5 has an emnip of 5 launches, Falcon is more than 15. So, yes you need more such articles, a miracle will suddenly happen and a pasta monster will appear and save.
                And next year he is not better.
                And yes, most importantly, understand the age of the steps of the customers DO NOT WORRY. They pay for the launch of the PN into the target orbit for minimal money, who offer cheaper with acceptable reliability then and in dams.
                ps so we laugh further, but then they won’t be surprised at such news in the future.
                "In the presentation to the government, as an example, the restructuring of the problem debts of the Khrunichev State Research and Production Center (about 2025 billion rubles, loans - 110 billion rubles) by a direct loan from Rossiyskiy Kapital for 30,8 billion rubles at 57% per annum is considered as an example. VEB for 3 billion rubles at 27,5% per annum with subsidized interest rates on a loan of 14 billion rubles and an injection of 8 billion rubles into the space technology manufacturer from the budget.
                However, final decisions on the bank of bad debts have not been made - for its work, it will be necessary to amend the bankruptcy law and several other laws. But by the fall of 2015, with the growing problems of large companies, the DIA project will have more chances than last spring. The State Scientific and Technical Center named after M.V. Khrunichev is one of the leading enterprises in the Russian rocket and space industry in Russia. The main products at present are launch vehicles of the Proton family and booster blocks for them.
                More details: http://www.novostibankrotstva.ru/2015/07/14/smi-bank-plohih-dolgov-mozhet-saniro
                vat-zajmy-tsentra-hrunicheva / # ixzz49DW96YsE "
  • opus
    opus 18 May 2016 21: 32
    +1
    Quote: Operator
    Ilon Musk is the figurehead of the American budget sawyers (10 billion with hooks, excellent gesheft).


    1. Do you care if the operator doesn’t saw your (American) budget?
    2.Facts?
    3. Ilon is a rich man, his hands are long, for inflicting damage on business reputation, are you not afraid to answer slander?
    They reached Bout ... and uh, ugh
    Quote: Operator
    designed to mask the lack of technical innovations and the loss-making project for end customers - NASA and the Pentagon.

    1. Operator
      Operator 18 May 2016 21: 55
      +17
      I do not care about their budget, I am sick of it when they try to present an "effective" businessman as a brilliant engineer.

      Since you are a techie, I translate - every kilogram launched into Falcon’s orbit will cost at least twice as much as it would have been launched by the Union or Proton.
      1. opus
        opus 18 May 2016 22: 06
        +1
        Quote: Operator
        will cost at least twice as much as it would be launched by the Union or Proton

        there will be a concept "relative"
        When will be, then we cry
        1.Merlin 1D ~ $ 1 million, with an approximate price of $ 14 / tf (000 kN)

        2.RD-107A under $ 500000 (821 kN) under $ / 6000 tf



        Reusable / disposable and count
        1. yehat
          yehat 20 May 2016 14: 08
          +3
          we’ve got some kind of split, we’re waiting for the results, and the genius is already right now bully
      2. green
        green 18 May 2016 22: 33
        +1
        Cheaper.
        Proton - 2 830 (NOO) 13 000 (GPO)
        Union - 4 242 (NOU) 11 265 (GPO)
        Falcon-9 FT - 2 719 (NOO) 7 470 (GPO)
        1. Foxmara
          Foxmara 19 May 2016 19: 43
          +3
          Quote: green
          Cheaper.
          Proton - 2 830 (NOO) 13 000 (GPO)
          Union - 4 242 (NOU) 11 265 (GPO)
          Falcon-9 FT - 2 719 (NOO) 7 470 (GPO)

          everything is so, except:
          Falcon-9 v1.1 4 (DOE) 300 (GPO)

          © The magazine "All about Space" http://aboutspacejornal.net/ and these figures are given in other sources.

          As you can see, cheapness does not smell. The numbers + are similar.
          here's another:
          Falcon 9 v1.1 US 4850 61,2 - 82 GPO
          Falcon 9 v1.1 USA 13150 65 28,5 ° / 200 km
  • Alibekulu
    Alibekulu 20 May 2016 14: 40
    0
    Quote: Operator
    Ilon Musk is the figurehead of the American budget sawyers (10 billion with hooks, excellent gesheft).
    Yeah wink will now cut the Russian budget:
    Russian Railways and Elon Musk will introduce superfast trains in Russia
    19 May revealed that Russian Railways and the American company Hyperloop One created a working group to discuss cooperation.

    Hyperloop is an ambitious transport project of Elon Musk, creator of Tesla electric vehicles, SpaceX rockets and PayPal payment system. Hyperloop technology is a capsule on air cushions that moves through pipes under low pressure (almost vacuum) conditions with a maximum speed of 1200 km / h.
    The first successful tests took place on 12 in May of 2016 in the USA near Las Vegas. It is planned that a complete transport system Hyperloop One will be created by 2020 year.
    According to Vedomosti, representatives of Hyperloop themselves contacted Russian Railways and offered their technology. The decision to finance the project will be made by the Russian side before the end of the year.
    In the case of the introduction of vacuum trains, the path, for example, from Moscow to Vladivostok can take from 7,5 to 20 hours (instead of six days). The road to St. Petersburg will take 20-30 minutes.
    Note that today the Moscow office of Hyperloop opened a vacancy of the director for business development in Russia.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 18 May 2016 19: 35
    .
    Yes, the author is simply envious - he did not achieve anything in his life, so he is trying to justify his worthlessness by attacks on other businessmen-techies.
  • aksakal
    aksakal 18 May 2016 20: 03
    +39
    Quote: opus
    Is this about Elon Reeve Musk? I don't know what a graduate of MSTU did (Born in Ukraine. Married, two sons, grandson. First higher education - mechanical engineer, "Low Temperature Engineering and Physics") ... but Ilan (Pay Pal, Zip2, SpaceX, SolarCity , Tesla Motors and it will still be) the businessman of the year 2013, and The Wall Street Journal named the CEO the same like 2013
    Found a "kid"

    You would have read more serious articles about this gentleman, and not the PiArstateiki, paid by him about himself, his beloved, then, perhaps, there would be less reverence and pathos for this businessman. For me - so "boy" - still putting it mildly. Compared to the same Korolev, he is not even a boy, but a pygmy pygmy. Less reverence for the unworthy, good sir. If anything, you have a bunch of people in your homeland who deserve your respect much more than this mask. At least Jack B posted an article with confirmation, and it turns out that in fact it is not Musk who creates everything, but why poor NASA is bent over and forced to work for Musk. Here the author is right for anyone. Secondly for the price - everything comes out very expensive, more expensive than the Angara. And thirdly, why is it such an advance payment for Musk from NASA, the Pentagon, and everyone else? So you can shout - "create a super car, give only money!", And they immediately ran to you and paid in advance for 1000 cars with delivery after the creation of this car and the start of serial production? This can't be, can it? And with Musk, such miracles happen - and this was noted by the author ... I do not envy, I am happy - if the Americans privatize the space industry in such a peculiar way, then the flag is in their hands. This means that the primacy in space will be for Russia. What's so sad about that?
    1. iwind
      iwind 18 May 2016 20: 26
      .
      Pentagon ???
      - he received a contract only one contract and that on April 29, 2016
      Quote: aksakal
      why poor NASA is bent and forced to work for the Mask. Here the author is right for anyone. Secondly, for the price - everything comes out very expensive, more expensive than the Angara. And thirdly, why is this Mask such prepayments from NASA, from the Pentagon, and from all the others?

      Who is Nasa forcing? They fund various programs. including SpaecX, and not in the first place. for example On 16 September 2014, NASA chose SpaceX and Boeing as the two companies that will be funded to develop systems to transport US crews to and from the space station. Spacex won $ 2.6B to complete and certify Dragon V2 by 2017. (Boeing won $ 4.2B to complete and certify their CST-100.)
      Boeing received almost twice as much, but the CST-100 has not even flown.
    2. opus
      opus 18 May 2016 21: 48
      +2
      Quote: aksakal
      You would read more serious articles about this gentleman,

      1. I wrote it myself. Chuvarkin screwed up (after reading one sentence ... ce is not a sentimental novel)
      2. I read and serious, and the result of his actions on the face of the face, I see, I feel
      3.ZY if there is a "serious" please send me read it with pleasure: Russian, English, German, Finnish (this one will be translated)
      Quote: aksakal
      Compared to the same Korolev - not even a kid, but a pygmy pygmy.


      You still compare with Einstein or Otto Ganfool
      Look at the root.
      people who graduated from the "Higher a commercial VAVT school Development of Russia", 1998 - 2000 (hello Chubais and Koh!) To OO and the author of several good-quality" Soviet "novels - about war and love, about the meaning of life and the meaning of history, etc. calls Ilona a" kid "

      Quote: aksakal
      If anything, you have a lot of people in your homeland who deserve your respect much more than this mask.

      Fact.

      But it has nothing to do with this dirty little article.
      Quote: aksakal
      Secondly, for the price - everything comes out very expensive, more expensive than the Angara.

      nonsense! 2,7 times cheaper


      RD 191 standing on the "armament" of the Angara RN, in relative prices, is considered one of the most expensive kerosene LPR in the world - 36 000 $ / ton (250 million rubles).

      The price of RD 171, on the basis of which RD 180/191 was created, is in the range of $ 22 / ton ($ 000-13 million).

      Merlin 1D with an approximate price of $ 15 / tf (~ $ 000 million)
      Merlin-1d
      Quote: aksakal
      if the Americans so privately privatize the space industry, the flag is in their hands.

      1.Participants created America is a fact
      2. Eeee look on Vesti FM about the Russian railway, "Medvezhy Ugol", super transmission. After I was driving, I heard, I sat at the house for another 40 minutes and just heard.
      Everything is there: about mentality, about private traders. Class
  • fzr1000
    fzr1000 18 May 2016 20: 09
    +19
    Tesla Motors has suffered billions of dollars in losses not the first quarter. And this is at prices of about 60 kb in the US, which is not cheap for those places. And the "hardware" was designed by Daimler. As long as the batteries are on lithium, there will be nothing breakthrough in electric vehicles.
    I cannot say anything about outer space, but there is a sound grain that the supply of fuel for return reduces the payload, and so far the troubleshooting does not give the go-ahead for reusing the first stage.
    Let time judge.
    1. iwind
      iwind 18 May 2016 21: 47
      -4
      Quote: fzr1000
      Tesla Motors has suffered billions of dollars in losses not the first quarter. And this is at prices of about 60 kb in the US, which is not cheap for those places. And the "hardware" was designed by Daimler. As long as the batteries are on lithium, there will be nothing breakthrough in electric vehicles.

      Well, with such investments in new production, it is not surprising to incur losses.
      Cash flows from investing activities primarily relate to capital expenditures to support our growth in operations, including investments in Model S manufacturing equipment and tooling and our stores, service centers and Supercharger network infrastructure. Cash used in investing activities was $ 1.67 billion, $ 990.4 million and $ 249.4 million in 2015, 2014 and 2013. Cash flows from investing activities and variability between each year related primarily to capital expenditures, which were $ 1.63 billion, $ 969.9 million, and $ 264.2 million in 2015 , 2014, and 2013. Expenditures in all years consisted primarily of purchases of capital equipment, tooling, and facilities to support our Model S and Model X manufacturing
      $ 1k revenue
      2015 $ 4,046,025
      2014 $ 3,198,356
      2013 2,013,496 $
      Quote: fzr1000
      I cannot say anything about outer space, but there is a sound grain that the supply of fuel for return reduces the payload, and so far the troubleshooting does not give the go-ahead for reusing the first stage.

      Well, good for one step has already been given. Start in the summer and there is a commercial customer.
    2. opus
      opus 18 May 2016 22: 11
      +1
      Quote: fzr1000
      Tesla Motors has suffered billions in losses for more than a quarter.

      Well, they lied, so they lied
      1. Not billions, and millions
      2.Not in the quarter, and annual(US annual reporting)

      Why are you lying without blinking an eye? (And then we are surprised at the Ukrainians)
      Quote: fzr1000
      And this at prices of about 60 kb in the USA, Th

      and not only.
      and the resale of Honda quotes for cavalry for $ 7-17000 / car?
      So what?
      This is new.
      AND THE NETWORK OF "ELECTRIC STATIONS"
  • oops
    oops 20 May 2016 03: 32
    +3
    PayPal - the project is NOT a MASK! Musk owned a certain venture company, which was absorbed by PayPal.
    SpaceX - GOVERNMENT PROJECT.
    SCTY is a solid short. If you agree with even one of these reasons, SCTY should be at least a short candidate. That is, a candidate for near bankruptcy.
    Tesla Motors only brings LOSSES to shareholders. Stocks fell 3 (5?)% Again today
    Mask has one plus - he quickly jumped off the project of a supersonic train in a pipe (Hyprloop). But he continues to carry out advertising support ... For money, naturally ...
  • Orionvit
    Orionvit 20 May 2016 16: 03
    +1
    In any case, we are together watching the sunset of the US space program, and NASA in particular. Slowly decays. They cannot fly into space already.
  • 73bor
    73bor 20 May 2016 22: 56
    +2
    Just do not forget to say that this Musk is a relative of Gates and G. Hughes, or if you are at least fifteen times a billionaire, they will not let you go to DARPA for a cannon shot!
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 19 May 2016 09: 29
    -5
    Stupid article. Firstly, this rocket flies, and this immediately refutes all the engineering arguments presented in the article. Secondly, the author does not seem to know that there is a law in the United States under which all military and other technologies created with budget money must be transferred to the civilian sector in 20 years. And we should not care how this is done, but this is not the theft of the Mask. Yes, the technology is old. Yes, the engines are old. But it turns out using old engines, smooth tanks, supercooled components, you can create the cheapest rocket in the world, and even return to the start. The author has a fat minus.
    1. Senzey
      Senzey 19 May 2016 16: 24
      -2
      I agree!
      Cars drive, sell well, rockets fly!
      Ambition, Dreams and Purposefulness
  • 73bor
    73bor 19 May 2016 10: 25
    +7
    This was clear five years ago, not everything can be bought for money, and physical principles are all the more so since the final article is completely satisfied!
  • sherp2015
    sherp2015 19 May 2016 14: 14
    0
    Quote: Letun
    I swear, this is one of the best articles that I read on in all time! Subtle humor on the verge of a foul, a lot of technical subtleties described by a language quite understandable to the average man, to the best of caustic sarcasm


    I would like to know the name of the author of "one of the best articles in VO" ...
  • Engineer
    Engineer 19 May 2016 15: 00
    -3
    Quote: Letun
    Subtle humor on the verge of a foul, a lot of technical subtleties described by a language quite understandable to the average man, to the best of caustic sarcasm lol
    Respect and honor to the author fellow


    Falcon 9, weight 549t, cast weight at NOU 22,8t, at GPO 5,5t
    Proton-M, weight 705t, cast weight at 23OO, at 6,7t GPO
    Angara-5, weight 773t, cast weight at 24,5t NOU, at GPO 7,5t

    Your comment, as well as the author’s article itself, is the height of illiteracy and laziness to such an extent that they did not even study Wikipedia in order to get an idea of ​​rockets at least at the school level. F-9 with return first stage on 224t! lighter than our new Angara, but not much inferior in terms of throwing weights into orbit. So much for the pasta monster.
    1. bunta
      bunta 19 May 2016 16: 11
      +7
      And now we translate the relative mass of the rocket / per 1 ton of GPO:

      vial 99
      hangar 103

      and what will be the conclusion? Given that the bottle will still come to the GPO, and will it reach at all?
      1. opus
        opus 20 May 2016 02: 30
        +1
        Quote: bunta
        Given that the bottle will still come to the GPO, and will it reach at all?

        Hic ...
        Are you talking about?
        5 August 2014, AsiaSat 8 GPO (momentum of transition to GSO ~ 1800 m / s
        7 September 2014, AsiaSat 6 (Thaicom 7) GPO
        2 March 2015, ABS-3A, Eutelsat 115 West B GPO
        and so again six or xnumx
        6 May 2016, JCSAT-14 GPO
        June 2016 FORMOSAT-5, SHERPA MTR (heliosynchronous)
        so many times

        I'll upset you
        11 February 2015, DSCOVR (Triana) L1 (Lagrange point, if CH)

        And this is more, taller GPO, and GSO (LEO will be)
        187h 1 371 156 km, 37 ° (to the moon m / a by the way 384 467 km (0,002 57 a.u))
        Halo orbit, .. and you "even when it gets to the GPO" ...

    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Alex_59
      Alex_59 19 May 2016 22: 59
      +3
      Quote: Engineer
      Falcon 9, weight 549t, cast weight at NOU 22,8t, at GPO 5,5t

      In fact, with a return stage, the cast weight on the DOE is 30-40% less than the specified weight. So no miracles. Falcon 9 - rocket like a rocket. Flies, displays, there is nothing breakthrough or ingenious in it, it is a usual step forward in the development of technology. Compare with the ancient Proton ... well, have mercy, you do not compare the AK-74 with a musket, right?
      1. iwind
        iwind 20 May 2016 11: 03
        0
        Quote: Alex_59
        In fact, with a return stage, the cast weight on the DOE is 30-40% less than the indicated.

        10-15% of the braking option and the barge.
        And 30-40% of the return to the starting place.
        Falcon 9 Flight 23 - 08.04.2016/8/XNUMX - CRSXNUMX.
        They had already delivered the CRS8 satellite, weighed 5,3 tones per GPO, with the subsequent landing of a step on a barge. This step should fly in the summer
        TTX Falcon-9
        http://www.spacex.com/falcon9
  • smershxnumx
    smershxnumx 18 May 2016 17: 25
    +6
    Yes, I am not a "techie" either .... But one evening I "crumbled" under pivas, it is impossible to prove anything, but the deception is on the surface, i.e. obvious ... IMHO.
  • godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 18 May 2016 18: 25
    0
    so much envy bully
    1. opus
      opus 18 May 2016 21: 55
      0
      Quote: godofwar6699
      so much envy


      So much idle talk about




      1. Nothing, what are these "first" attempts?
      2. Nothing that "Buran" (only PN, everything else burned down to the babies), was not suitable for subsequent flights.
      -----------------------
      Kaklov !!! More and more I am reminded of stubborn kaklov (but with a sign of ours, of course, and so ... everything is the same as the censor NO)
      1. AllXVahhaB
        AllXVahhaB 19 May 2016 08: 00
        +20
        It's not even about the technological side of the issue. Recently, many of our liberals have cited this American group as an example of effective management and "breakthrough technologies". Accordingly, they urge to follow the example and privatize RosKosmos, taking it apart from private companies. I don't need to explain what this will lead to ...
  • CHILD
    CHILD 20 May 2016 11: 32
    +1
    .... got a lot of fun)))
  • Finches
    Finches 18 May 2016 15: 58
    +45
    For some reason, I don’t give a damn about the American, his eccentricities and the purses of their taxpayers! But eccentricities in the field of high technology there is no one Chubais ... Here at least some kind of crap flies into space and returns, albeit stupidly, but for now the most effective RUSNANO invention, what I saw is their New Year's corporate party!
    1. Jack-b
      Jack-b 18 May 2016 16: 17
      +18
      Quote: Finches
      For some reason, I do not care deeply about the American .....

      I, too, to the Americans purple. But do you know how many people took this American megalochotron to the flag? They wave at them at all corners and yell that there, in the "free" world, ordinary ordinary people, ordinary businessmen, launch rockets into space! And they "earn" money on it! That's not purple for me.
      Quote: Finches
      while the most effective RUSNANO invention that I have seen is a New Year corporate party!

      This is because you have little interest in their activities. Especially since you did not look for Old? Satisfied with the fact that you were fed by our helpful white puppies? They ate it easily and naturally.
      1. Finches
        Finches 18 May 2016 16: 25
        +10
        What for? When I see a "Made in China" element base in a military product, I immediately understand that RUSNANO is working in the right direction!

        And Chubais, are you looking for a patriot?
        1. Jack-b
          Jack-b 18 May 2016 18: 23
          +1
          And what is the relationship between military products and RUSNANO? RUSNANO is not obliged to engage in military products. If the military-industrial complex has tasks to do everything in Russia, let it do it. Or RUSNANO is attracted, but this is the problem of the military industrial complex and not Chubais.
          1. Finches
            Finches 18 May 2016 18: 32
            +10
            Domestic processors are the problem of our entire industry and science! Especially those state institutions created specifically for the design and development of breakthrough, modern innovative technologies!

            Although one, indeed, innovative and breakthrough thing, Anatoly Borisovich, did! And she brought him more dividends than the theory of relativity Einstein - he came up with a voucher! Apparently that's why he was appointed to lead nanotechnology, because the voucher is for all nanotechnology, technology! laughing
            1. Jack-b
              Jack-b 18 May 2016 18: 42
              +2
              There are domestic processors. This is not the merit of Chubais. But they are, and if anyone needs them, they may well buy it. Another thing is that they are not so needed as you describe here.
              1. Finches
                Finches 18 May 2016 19: 14
                +5
                You are a little mistaken! All products related to the country's defense capability should be built exclusively on the domestic element base! Yes, there is Baikal, but it is still a little damp ... and, what else I wanted to say, I, as an active military signalman, are a little bit in the subject! hi
                1. Jack-b
                  Jack-b 18 May 2016 19: 36
                  +3
                  In fact, only the military needs it. Almost only the military and buy. This is what I’m saying that it’s not so necessary. At the expense of the dampness of Baikal IMHO you are wrong. Baikal is a licensed version of MIPS of domestic design. Quite a normal processor. Truth is produced in Taiwan, if not mistaken. In terms of civilian applications are more promising. Computing power is quite competitive. They are going to be mass-produced - the price will also be good.
                  Elbrus is completely domestic development. And it seems that they are even produced in Russia. They are also quite workers, you cannot call them raw. From a certain point of view, they are inferior in performance to top Intel and AMD. If you think this is "damp", well, so be it. They just go to some military needs.
                  I absolutely do not know what processors are used in military specialized tasks. I, as an air defense officer, studied at the military department at a university the systems of automated control of air defense, there were such processors whose names we were not even told. But absolutely that ours.
                  1. Finches
                    Finches 18 May 2016 19: 54
                    +3
                    The principles of building modern telecommunication networks, means of communication that are civilian and military are exactly the same, only the military are subject to more stringent requirements because of the specifics of their application: adaptability, stability, bandwidth, mobility, reconnaissance security, accessibility and controllability, specifics of the application environment etc., all this imposes a certain demand from domestic processors!

                    In any case, thank you for the dialogue! Although you started it a little politely, but nonetheless! hi
                  2. St_tov
                    St_tov 19 May 2016 06: 53
                    -4
                    "From a certain point of view, they are inferior in performance to top Intels and AMD" - not from some, but from all sides they are inferior great (up to 4 times); "But it is absolutely certain that ours" - I would not be so categorical. It was possible to personally observe products with components with washed / sawn-off markings, which were reported as 100% domestic element base. Yes, and the US reports had a chance to contemplate what and in what volumes the domestic defense industry pioneered.
                    1. Jack-b
                      Jack-b 19 May 2016 16: 29
                      +3
                      Quote: St_tov.
                      "From a certain point of view, they are inferior in performance to the top Intels and AMD" - not from some, but from all sides they are inferior great (up to 4 times);
                      Do you realize that there is a comparison of processors with different architectures? What methodology do you make comparisons to make such categorical statements?
                      Quote: St_tov.
                      "But it is absolutely certain that ours" - I would not be so categorical.
                      This is where categoricality is appropriate. The processor, about which this phrase is said, was produced in the USSR, and there can be no talk about any file cuts.
                    2. St_tov
                      St_tov 19 May 2016 17: 52
                      -2
                      When I was a GUI, and working for NPO Aurora (in the distant Soviet times), we made them a fault-tolerant 16-processor system, so completely domestic components were only in 3 sets of 30. RAM, EPROM, ~ 30% of the SIS binding - US. Analogs were promised, and even released, but only the reliability was such that the system, already a week later, on the shore, began the so-called. elegant degradation. When using the originals - six months of continuous work without the use of fail-safe mechanisms.
                    3. Jack-b
                      Jack-b 20 May 2016 08: 12
                      +2
                      Of course, I can assume that you blurted out a prototype on state-owned components, but to produce military equipment in series .... I believe that you are lying or not negotiating.
              2. Felix99
                Felix99 19 May 2016 08: 53
                +1
                Americans are using 386 processors for military needs. Several Chinese spies got burned in an attempt to export them.
                1. Cynic
                  Cynic 19 May 2016 10: 45
                  0
                  Quote: Felix99
                  on an attempt to export them

                  Which of these countries? If anything, then these are new markings of the chip manufacturing plant
  • Uncle
    Uncle 18 May 2016 16: 36
    +10
    Quote: Jack-B
    Satisfied with the fact that you were fed by our helpful white puppies? They ate it easily and naturally.

    But is Chubais himself not a white-bellied man? Does he wear a St. George ribbon? And what is so worth developing RUSnano? Enlighten.
  • iliitchitch
    iliitchitch 18 May 2016 20: 43
    -1
    [quote = soroKING] reusable slipper was already [/ quote
    You can't catch anything on jet propulsion. Humanity has not yet matured to antigravity-tiryampampa, fact. Everything according to the Strugatskys ("It's hard to be a god") - give them a meat grinder, so they will build a meat grinder, large, so that the bones of the "enemies" can be ground ...
    It’s clear that apple trees will bloom on Mars. In 500 years.
    No one two-year-old child alone will not let go for a walk in the Galaxy, because he will do so.
    You need to look into the truth - we’re sitting in the sandbox, after 5 years we’ll go to school ... then it’s clear, well, we’ll definitely become adults tomorrow.
  • Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 20 May 2016 15: 06
    0
    "fakinshit" ... nothing to add ... smile
  • Poppy
    Poppy 18 May 2016 15: 35
    +3
    what was to be expected - a banal American cut
    they love this thing
    1. just exp
      just exp 18 May 2016 15: 56
      +1
      From the very beginning I was wary of Mask and his idea, not for engineering reasons, I do not rummage through them. but due to the fact that too much PR at once. and PR is needed by naked kings, not real products.
      but the article doesn’t explain everything. For example, what are these railway dimensions of 3.7 m? platform width?
      Duc can not be transported railway, We Mriya was for like that.
      Yes there is another transport.
      1. Zvon
        Zvon 19 May 2016 13: 50
        +2
        The Americans, by the way, carry a lot of rockets on barges along the sea and rivers, especially everything that starts from Cape Canaveral, so they never steamed before and built large-diameter rockets! And we only have our rockets. transport and carry and nothing, but we have a dimension "C" on the railway 3,1m! And on the ANGARA rocket, we have developed a competent approach, side accelerators are symmetrically attached to the central stage, depending on the task, a different number of accelerators, and the diameter of each does not exceed the size of the railroad! The plant manufactured steps and boosters and sent each one across the country by train, engineers and specialists are already on the spot enlarging the rocket in the workshop, which is located 5 km from the launch pad (as it was conceived at the Vostochny cosmodrome)! And the railway the path from the workshop to the launch pad is already without restrictions on the size of the approach of buildings and is reinforced for a special load from the wheelset. And the platforms themselves for the rocket are special!
  • Absurdidat
    Absurdidat 18 May 2016 15: 37
    +7
    And I was so waiting, hoping and believing! ....))))))
  • Lt. Air Force stock
    Lt. Air Force stock 18 May 2016 15: 37
    0
    Come on, Elon Musk is a normal businessman-inventor. At least he is trying to invest in science and innovation, and not like our oligarchs in private jets, yachts, islands, castles, etc. etc.
    1. g1v2
      g1v2 18 May 2016 15: 50
      +17
      Private jets, islands, castles, etc. are excellent - the main thing is that all this is bought and built in Russia. And builders and aircraft manufacturers also need to earn. Golden toilet or yacht - for God's sake, but only to be made in the Russian Federation. Ural jewelers or St. Petersburg shipyards also need to earn. But if all this is bought in England, then let them go to England, but with empty pockets.
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 18 May 2016 19: 32
        +1
        Quote: g1v2
        Private jets, islands, castles, etc. are excellent - the main thing is that all this is bought and built in Russia.

        Well, of course, the factories and enterprises were privatized in the 90s and now you can get into all your troubles (if I honestly earned my brains with 0, I would not say a word). The benefit to the country is much higher from the large contribution of money to science, and not to the lump sum purchase of 1 large aircraft for private use or 1 private yacht of 100 meter length.
        You know how much a big plane costs, like a Boeing 767, 787, 250+ million dollars
        Yacht 400-500 million dollars
        Locks under $ 100 million
        Islands under $ 100 million.
        This is an example of how big money our oligarchs drain.
        1. g1v2
          g1v2 18 May 2016 21: 46
          +2
          Well, if they will merge this inside the country - no problem. Let our planes buy, build castles - a lot of land. He strained the islands, but let them go to the Kuril Islands. Budget and economics are only a joy. Avot if Boeing, islands in the Caribbean and castles in England - then nefig. Let them bubble up and then spend there.
    2. Cynic
      Cynic 18 May 2016 16: 23
      +4
      Quote: Lt. air force reserve
      inventor businessman

      This is sur, time will tell.
    3. Homo
      Homo 18 May 2016 16: 33
      +3
      Quote: Lt. air force reserve
      he is trying to invest in science and innovation

      Yah! You probably have not read the article. There is no smell of science or innovation. Theft, forgery, lobbyism, cut dough! hi
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 18 May 2016 17: 44
        -1
        Quote: Homo
        Yah! You probably have not read the article. There is no smell of science or innovation. Theft, forgery, lobbyism, cut dough!

        Space is only one direction of his business, he also created the Tesla brand of electric vehicles, but of course they are very expensive, but in the future they may become cheaper and a simple person can afford to buy an electric car, not an ICE car.
        1. yehat
          yehat 18 May 2016 19: 48
          +5
          created, created, created ... he creates companies, processes, not inventions
          when you understand this, everything will fall into place
          Can you stack lego designs? so he folds
          or do you think that he personally works out all the projects on a kulman, doesn’t sleep at night? Oh well...
          1. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 18 May 2016 20: 40
            -4
            Quote: yehat
            created, created, created ... he creates companies, processes, not inventions
            when you understand this, everything will fall into place
            Can you stack lego designs? so he folds
            or do you think that he personally works out all the projects on a kulman, doesn’t sleep at night? Oh well...

            In fact, he is an engineer by training, and holds the position of chief designer of SpaceX.
            1. yehat
              yehat 19 May 2016 10: 24
              +3
              Yeltsin also served as president. So what?
              1. Lt. Air Force stock
                Lt. Air Force stock 19 May 2016 11: 23
                -2
                Quote: yehat
                Yeltsin also served as president. So what?

                The fact of the matter is that Yeltsin was the president, not the engineer. He should continue to work in this specialty.
    4. vlad_vlad
      vlad_vlad 18 May 2016 17: 13
      -5
      Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
      Come on, Elon Musk is a normal businessman-inventor. At least he is trying to invest in science and innovation, and not like our oligarchs in private jets, yachts, islands, castles, etc. etc.


      I agree completely. He spends his money. He implements his ideas. Of course, he may be wrong - no one is safe from this. But people like him are moving science and humanity forward. Even my mistakes.

      Elon Musk made Paypal. Elon Musk made Tesla. And he does not have a papa-minister or uncle-deputy. I would like such people in Russia and more.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 18 May 2016 18: 00
        +5
        Quote: vlad_vlad
        I agree completely. He spends his money.

        Ahem ... as they wrote above - Musk invested no more than 1% of his money:
        Musk created Space X in 2002. He climbed in the first two years on 100 million dollars of own money и approximately 200-300 million dollars from several private investors. From 2004 to 2006 he received subsidies from private investment funds located in Silicon Valley, estimated at 400-500 million dollars. Plus, he issued securities worth 300-400 million (I won’t lie - I can’t say for sure whether this was additional money or if it was the same that he received from investment funds for his bills).
        In 2006, he received the first contracts from NASA for approximately 300-350 million in total (for Falcons and Dragon), of which 278 million he received under the competitive grant COTS (see link) and another 25-70 million - for small grants.
        (...)
        At the time of the appearance of Latynina's article, Musk on Space X "shone through" 6 to 8 billion government investments from NASA and the US government (most often converge on the figure of 7,0-7,2 billion), about 2 billion from the Pentagon, about 2 billion attracted private investments and at least a billion investments / prepayments from foreign customers. Total from 11 to 13 billion dollars.

        Quote: vlad_vlad
        He implements his ideas.

        From there:
        I can even name two key developments that were transferred to Musk - the RS-88 rocket engine, developed by Rocketdyne for and under the auspices of NASA - in the mid-late 90s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS- 88) and Fastrac liquid-propellant engine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastrac_(rocket_engine)) On the basis of these developments, obtained almost for free, Barber-Nichols, Inc. under contract with Musk, designed a beautiful and reliable turbo pump for Space X, which is the heart of the Falcon engines - all those Merlin 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D and Merlin Vacuum (1C and 1D), saving Musk years and billions. The use of composite materials in the construction of the "Merlin" gave Musk some benefit, well, and this is not his merit, but his predecessors - the NASA contractors.
        1. vlad_vlad
          vlad_vlad 18 May 2016 18: 56
          -1
          Alexey RA RU Today, 18:00 ↑ New
          Quote: Vlad_Vlad
          I agree completely. He spends his money.
          Ahem ... as they wrote above - Musk invested no more than 1% of his money:


          Alexey, you are probably not very familiar with the general principle of financing a business.

          Elon invested 100 million of HIS money, how much he later received loans and project financing, orders - this in the sense of "equity capital" is no longer important. to say that he invested 1% is wrong.

          I do not idealize Musk, but this article is similar to the slander of envious people and people who are even 1% incapable of reaching Musk.
        2. opus
          opus 18 May 2016 23: 33
          +1
          Quote: Alexey RA
          I can even tell you two key developments that were transferred to the Mask - RS-88 LPRE, developed by Rocketdyne on request and under the auspices of NASA - in the mid-late 90s and Fastrac LPRE

          What kind of bullshit?

          RS-88: LOX / alcohol (ethanol) 220kN


          Fastrac: LOX / RP-1 284,41 kN

          (in metal was not)

          Merlin 1A = 340 kN

          Merlin 1B = 380 kN
          ...
          Merlin 1D = 620 kN





          They have in common with Fastrac .... ONE same TNA producer: Barber-Nichols, Inc.
          Oh yes...
          nozzle principle

          and ablative cooling of the chamber (principle !!!) and then on M1A



          truncated

          RS-88 tortures Boeing with its CST-100
      3. kotvov
        kotvov 18 May 2016 19: 13
        +1
        I would like such people in Russia and more. ,,
        I can tell you the name of such a person in Russia, Chubais.
      4. yehat
        yehat 18 May 2016 19: 52
        +3
        mask does NOT do anything new. An ordinary venture business in a niche found.
        All he did was find a niche. Perhaps somewhere he lacks the qualifications to evaluate ALIEN ideas, but on this he, as a techie ends.
        Maybe you will look around and see how many similar masks are around?
        Take for example our Chubais. Why not Musk? Long live the school tablet for the price of a tank! Freshly? And how! And you are a mask, a mask ...
        1. opus
          opus 19 May 2016 00: 57
          +2
          Quote: yehat
          All he did was find a niche.

          find ...


          His first company, created together with his brother from scratch, was called Zip2 and was engaged in software for news companies. Its sale in 1999 brought Mask the first big money - $ 22 million. And then Musk creates the company X.com, later renamed the service for online payments PayPal, which many of us use. Three years later, PayPal was sold to eBay for $ 1,6 (!) Billion.


          feel the difference
          Alexey Miller produced $ 27 million in Gazprom (No. 1), VTB President Andrey Kostin - $ 21 million, Rosneft CEO Igor Sechin - $ 17,5 million

          Quote: yehat
          how techie ends.

          Musk is concerned about the Fermi paradox: are you up to date?

          At the age of 12 he created a computer game on the space theme Blastar, at the age of 15 the young self-taught programmer sells his first Blastar game (a Space Invaders-style shooter) for $ 500, and at 17 he receives a Canadian passport and goes to Montreal, at first agreeing for any job and balancing on the brink of poverty for almost a year. He soon enters Queen's University of Ontario. From Canada, to continue his studies, Musk moves to Pennsylvania (where he receives diploma in economics and physics), and from there to Stanford. At a lesson in California, the 24-year-old Musk appears only twice and, instead of science, is fond of entrepreneurship. Already at the start of his career, he proved himself an outstanding visionary, identifying three breakthrough business sectors to conquer: Internet, clean energy and space.

          In 1995, in a rented apartment in the capital of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, he, together with his brother Kimbal, founded the developer of site support programs and publishing media content Zip2, which four years later, at the peak of the dot-com boom, he sold his Compaq “daughter” for more than $ 300 million - AltaVista ..
          Quote: yehat
          Take for example our Chubais. Why not Musk? Long live the school tablet for the price of a tank!

          tfu plya ... at night about shit.

          Do you compare Chubais with Mac?
          1. yehat
            yehat 19 May 2016 11: 15
            +1
            about the Fermi paradox.
            The answer is very simple - we are looking, based on our search criteria, very narrow. And civilizations and their dimensions of development can be (presumably) a lot.
            The probability of finding a civilization that has taken a great interest in constructing in hardware is much lower than the probability of just finding a civilization.
            For example, dolphins could create a civilization of music lovers, in whom the whole meaning of life is reduced to the construction of sound combinations. Well, how do you find such a civilization?
            Or maybe the influenza virus has its own civilization, they are trying to spread communism to all of humanity from the inside. We DO NOT KNOW what to look for and therefore cannot find. But far to go - look at the subcultures. Invite the biker to seek out a new culture among ladies' poem writers. He will not find. For him, this is a meaningless data set.
            And the Fermi paradox is a banal exploitation of the narrowness of knowledge, nothing more. If Musk is seriously concerned about this, this indicates his low competence.
            1. opus
              opus 19 May 2016 12: 48
              +1
              Quote: yehat
              about the Fermi paradox.

              well, I'm glad, at least someone is interested in something other than the "week's results" +
              ZY Drake's formula, in no way connected with "iron" or "biotechnology", "music love", etc.

              ~ N - the number of intelligent civilizations ready to make contact;
              ~ R is the number of stars formed per year in our galaxy;
              ~ f_p - the proportion of stars that have planets;
              ~ n_e - the average number of planets (and satellites) with suitable conditions for the emergence of civilization;

              ~ f_l - the probability of the origin of life on a planet with suitable conditions;
              ~ f_i - the probability of the emergence of intelligent life forms on the planet on which there is life;
              ~ f_c - the ratio of the number of planets whose intelligent inhabitants are capable of contact and are looking for it, to the number of planets on which there is intelligent life;
              ~ L is the life time of such a civilization (that is, the time during which civilization exists, is able to make contact and wants to make contact).
              Quote: yehat
              For example, dolphins could create a civilization of music lovers,


              Civilization is a social form of the motion of matter, ensuring its stability and ability to self-development through self-regulation of exchange with the environment ;
              If D. created Ts (even music lovers), we will find it, if there is no self-development and exchange with the OS, then according to our concepts, this is not Ts.
              (Civilization - localized in time and space society).

              Quote: yehat
              We DO NOT KNOW what to look for and therefore cannot find.

              We must rely on something.
              1.AXIOMA (they are also unprovable)
              2.Philosophical meanings (maybe they are not true, but you need to start from something)
              Otherwise ....
              How do you know that the world is REALLY SUCH?
              Is the grass green? Is the sky blue?
              is the water "wet"? etc.
              Our eye sees only a small fraction of the spectrum of EMR, the tactile receptors of the skin are the same + all this goes through the synapses / neurons and is processed by the brain.
              The world can OBJECTIVELY generally five-dimensional. wink
              Where to get this "objectivity"
    5. Rus2012
      18 May 2016 17: 16
      +3
      Quote: Lt. air force reserve
      Elon Musk is a normal businessman and inventor. At least he's trying to invest in science and innovation,

      ... he is a brilliant mkrt, fooling amers who have long lost their engineering school ... or who was there ... And that’s all!
      The main thing in his pasta this -
      an engineering freak, the size of a heavy rocket, squeezed by a railway gauge, weighed down by "legs" and a dead supply of landing fuel, begins to put into orbit (you still have first-class slaves who used to work in NASA) orbital load, which can launch a light rocket (well, well, easy-middle class).
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 18 May 2016 15: 38
    +8
    They famously carry out the privatization of NASA. And let this pasta fly.
    With this "Falcon" everything is somehow not quite. The numbers are "not beating". In short, the starting weight, the specific impulse of the engines and the "thrown mass" do not fit together. Or they began to use some materials that are twice as strong as those that we use (which is unlikely). The specific impulse of our RD-190s is higher than that of those that they use. Reminiscent of a Hollywood scenario with the mass shoeing of the People (stocks!).
  • Winnie76
    Winnie76 18 May 2016 15: 39
    +3
    Awesome article. It’s a pity I can only put one plus
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 18 May 2016 15: 55
      +1
      At the conclusion, he burst into tears of laughter. :) although I expected this result)
  • -Andrew
    -Andrew 18 May 2016 15: 39
    +5
    Sorry, Dmitry, the writing style of the letter is not very good, of course it's not for me to judge.
    1. Fregate
      Fregate 18 May 2016 17: 46
      +1
      What does Dmitri have to do with it? The original source is also written below. www.floridatoday.com. Well, the translation is somewhere on FaceKnik.
  • PValery53
    PValery53 18 May 2016 15: 43
    +4
    Everything is written with caustic irony and to the point. But to interleave logical turns of speech inveterate swearing, albeit in a foreign language, we did not agree on this.
    1. Rash
      Rash 18 May 2016 15: 58
      +4
      inveterate swearing

      fucking

      they have long been interjected. hi
    2. cap
      cap 18 May 2016 15: 58
      +4
      Quote: PValery53
      Everything is written with caustic irony and to the point. But to interleave logical turns of speech inveterate swearing, albeit in a foreign language, we did not agree on this.


      I don’t know, maybe I missed the mats, but I read the whole text with a smile.
      Thanks to the author. I showed how you can make money with money and connections.
      A lot of interesting things about patents and pension funds.
      Khodorkovsky is not the only one in the American states, there are also kindred souls that are warming overseas at the expense of the state.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 18 May 2016 16: 37
        +2
        Quote: cap I don’t know, maybe I missed the mats, but I read the whole text with a smile.

        Can you imagine how the professionals smiled?
        I was somewhat surprised by something else. No mocking jokes in our press about "multiple starts". Here, this is an excerpt! good In the USSR, they would have declared all this nonsense long ago, and clearly explained why. And, after all, in the USA they could have thought about it after that. And so, "nag Shura, nag". laughing The insidious market.
  • Absurdidat
    Absurdidat 18 May 2016 15: 51
    +2
    And I would have read this with a Russian obscenity even with great pleasure! Cursing, too, must be beautiful, as well as speaking beautifully. Everything is harmonious in the article, this is the style of the beginning of zero. :)
  • Winnie76
    Winnie76 18 May 2016 15: 57
    +6
    By the way, the story resembles the epic F-35. Attempts to cure obvious problems at the level of elementary physics with software, electronics, stupidly and in the forehead. At home, I sometimes encounter this. When the technological flaws of the system are trying to solve using automation. Nothing good ends.
    1. Koshak
      Koshak 18 May 2016 17: 42
      +5
      Quote: Winnie76
      By the way, the story resembles the epic F-35. Attempts to cure obvious problems at the level of elementary physics with software, electronics, stupidly and in the forehead. At home, I sometimes encounter this. When the technological flaws of the system are trying to solve using automation. Nothing good ends.

      Well, why is automation necessary? In / in Ukraine, the An-178 alignment problem was solved more easily by loading one and a half tons of scrap metal.
      1. yehat
        yehat 19 May 2016 10: 34
        0
        Ukraine is now a Hollywood blockbuster country. You can find any tin.
  • Valter1364
    Valter1364 18 May 2016 15: 58
    +3
    Big money and conscience, concepts are not compatible.
  • iliitchitch
    iliitchitch 18 May 2016 16: 08
    +5
    Distant manned space should be dealt with by the STATES in cooperation. It's not about the money. But if a business crook, albeit talented, crawls out of the moon, and runs into some Aldebarans and starts rubbing their express business plan into them ... I'm afraid that they will not understand earthlings. They do not even consider us as the youngest, they hold us for savages. Yes, here is an example of our wildness - it is necessary to split the atom so that it heats the water, the cat. will turn into steam, cat. cranks the turbine, and from the generator Ilyich’s bulb lights up. Well, nails, too, can grind a two-kilowatt grinder, from the same generator.
    And the fact that there are aliens - yes no doubt, you can not argue with statistics. Here we are sitting in our garden, and we will continue to sit until we get smarter. Nobody will ever give us a cold vaccine, for example. Dig the boys yourself. From ensign to the next. oak.
  • Res_Ullus
    Res_Ullus 18 May 2016 16: 16
    +2
    Ai beautiful))) With a horseshoe wink
  • avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 18 May 2016 16: 19
    +4
    Quote: Wend
    I read it with interest. I'm not a technician, but I suspected something like that. And here the author painted everything so intelligibly. +

    With humor comes better. I myself conduct a radio club at school and I am very impressed with the presentation style in this article. I’ve watched more than once, for a joke, the topic is assimilated better and most importantly forever - this is how our brain works.
    1. iliitchitch
      iliitchitch 18 May 2016 16: 51
      +9
      Quote: avg-mgn
      for fun, the topic is assimilated better and most importantly forever - that’s how our brain works.


      Our grandfather, a co-driver who worked with Sergei Pavlovich Korolev, used to say after the lecture: "Frames, guys, the main thing in a rocket is frames ...". Well, I still remember his words. The latter is remembered. And the "Soyuz" accident rate tends to zero. Thanks to such grandfathers. Not only for co-operators. We have something to be proud of.
      Yes, that's just a fact, these are not "chinooks" for you. Very impressive. Guys on the strength of materials "Test".
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 18 May 2016 17: 24
        +5
        Well, smaller Chinook, but also not frail wink :
        1. Jack-b
          Jack-b 18 May 2016 17: 40
          +10
          Well, to complete the series:

          1. iliitchitch
            iliitchitch 18 May 2016 19: 32
            +3
            Quote: Jack-B
            Well, to complete the series:


            Here. Here. The composition has acquired completeness. Full still life.
        2. iliitchitch
          iliitchitch 18 May 2016 19: 55
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Well, a smaller Chinook, but also not frail:


          Something about the 15th gut is not enough. And why THREE shoelaces? Not otherwise, there is a problem with the center. Serious. And where is the center person who steers the process? Damn, your photo, a colleague (I do not reproach you, I understand - I saw, laid out, it happens), a run from the landfill, and the chinook is an occasional guest from Photoshop.
  • x.andvlad
    x.andvlad 18 May 2016 16: 21
    +3
    "Show Mast Go On"! In this place, a miserly tear, gentlemen. But how can we live differently, in this americosia?
  • Cynic
    Cynic 18 May 2016 16: 21
    +5
    Expressively.
  • tankovod
    tankovod 18 May 2016 16: 30
    +2
    Well, now let this Petrosyan write about Phobos-soil or about the construction of the Vostochny Cosmodrome
  • rudolff
    rudolff 18 May 2016 16: 30
    +4
    Not an article, but a cheap amateur opus. Here is a fragment of an interview with Vladimir Degtyar, General Director and General Designer of the GRC Makeev:
    - To solve the problems of reducing the unit cost of launching and reducing the number of fall zones provided by the PCF for 2006-2015 years, the SRC Makeyev in 2007 developed materials for the Rossiyanka woman space rocket with a reusable first stage. A distinctive feature of the proposed version of the space rocket is a method of returning to the spaceport area and landing a reusable first stage by restarting the standard liquid rocket engines of the stage (reusable rocket scheme), for which the necessary fuel is provided in the tanks. Subsequently, this technical solution was confirmed by the creation and testing of the reusable first stage of the Falkon space rocket in the USA.
    JSC "GRTS Makeeva" continued work in this direction. In the year 2013, in the development of the Oblik-GRT project, it was proposed to upgrade a one-time first stage of a heavy-duty space rocket into a reusable one by installing additional components and assemblies on the stage to ensure its multiple use. In the 2014 year, when developing the Oblik-LC-GRT materials to consider options for light and ultra-light space rocket, a version of the ultra-light class with a reusable first stage according to the Rossiyanka space rocket was proposed. At the same time, it is envisaged that such a stage will serve as a demonstrator of key technologies, preceding the development of a heavy and extra-heavy space rocket with a reusable first stage.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 18 May 2016 16: 49
      +5
      "In 2013, during the development of the" Oblik - GRTs "project,
      proposed modernization of a one-time first stage rocket
      space destination heavy class reusable by
      installation on the stage of additional units and assemblies,
      providing its reusable use "/////

      ABOUT! This is a worthy answer. And you need to implement as quickly as possible
      it is in iron, otherwise Ilan Mask will displace Russian rocket scientists
      (and the French, and everyone else) from commercial satellite launches.

      1st stage - 80% of the cost of the entire rocket. That says it all.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 18 May 2016 16: 32
    -1
    Judging by the statements of the author, NASA and Musk are solid crooks - however, everything is embodied in iron in the USA -
    Dragon space shuttle
  • pavelty
    pavelty 18 May 2016 16: 32
    +3
    I read it yesterday on another resource, the author writes rzhachno - talent.
    Then I read it here and there, something .. In general, it’s not so bad with Mask. Things are going on, progress is evident.
    And so the banter is counted, of course))
  • enginegr
    enginegr 18 May 2016 16: 34
    +3
    The article is a huge minus. The text is saturated with irony and sarcasm. Never will a real engineer be so vulgar and cheap to vilify his colleague or the work of a team of colleagues. How much poison and insults. Has the author achieved anything similar himself? Show me at least one Russian businessman who has achieved such success? And don't tell me that energy and money is wasted. Does the author at least represent the process of development, creation, testing of a product like SpaceX? Can you imagine what kind of scientific and technical knowledge the developers received? These data will be used in favor of subsequent developments. And sooner or later Musk or someone else will succeed.
    I propose not to salivate the mistakes and failures of rivals, but to get rid of their problems. For example, transplant all top managers responsible for the East, and not humiliate the heads of design bureaus and factories, prompting, to resign for the mistakes of others.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 May 2016 16: 51
      0
      Musk has already achieved success, and substantial.
  • black
    black 18 May 2016 16: 35
    0
    Visual effects at the expense of efficiency. How is it in American. The main picture.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 18 May 2016 16: 35
    -1
    Dragon V2 Spaceship - Control Place
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 18 May 2016 16: 40
    +1
    The author is complete ... sad

    Elon Musk has already made three successful landings from space
    (after successful satellite launches)
    1st step to a small offshore platform. In the very
    center of a circle the size of a helipad.
    An amazing result, right from Lem's science fiction novels.

    He has already had three returned first steps in his warehouse. One of them turned out
    damaged. So what?
    Even with one reuse of the 1st stage, the cost of starting
    satellites are reduced by 30% and become smaller than that of RosKosmos.
    1st stage - about 80% of the cost of the entire rocket.
    and they are going to do several (up to 10) "reps".

    Rarely when a rocket takes 100% of the load weight. Usually it takes off underloaded by 20-25%.
    Those. the fuel that is needed for a vertical landing, and so is not used
    to the end efficiently.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 18 May 2016 17: 07
      +8
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The author is complete ... sad

      Elon Musk has already made three successful landings from space
      (after successful satellite launches)
      1st step to a small offshore platform. In the very
      center of a circle the size of a helipad.
      An amazing result, right from Lem's science fiction novels.

      He has already had three returned first steps in his warehouse. One of them turned out
      damaged. So what?
      Even with one reuse of the 1st stage, the cost of starting
      satellites are reduced by 30% and become smaller than that of RosKosmos.
      1st stage - about 80% of the cost of the entire rocket.
      and they are going to do several (up to 10) "reps".

      Rarely when a rocket takes 100% of the load weight. Usually it takes off underloaded by 20-25%.
      Those. the fuel that is needed for a vertical landing, and so is not used
      to the end efficiently.

      And why at 3 steps in the warehouse he does not start them again? Indeed, for 10 they examined the last step and recognized it as unfit. Why did the other two not do on the second flight? Strange, right?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 18 May 2016 17: 30
        0
        I don’t see anything strange. There are stages: 1) to work out
        landing of the 1st stage. Need some successful
        landings to say "yes, that's right, it works",
        and inspections of the steps will probably bring up ideas
        how to improve its design.
        2) try reruns.
        I am sure that in Russia they would move in the same way, in stages.
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 18 May 2016 17: 35
          +7
          I do not see repeated launches from the fulfilled stages. Or at least recognizing that they are ready for these launches. This is not, it means, most likely, and those two steps are unsuitable. That's all. Otherwise, they would shout and blow at every step.
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 19 May 2016 10: 12
            -1
            Start in the summer, have long been announced. They agree on a price with the client, they want to immediately withdraw the workload again.
          2. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 19 May 2016 10: 12
            -1
            Start in the summer, have long been announced. They agree on a price with the client, they want to immediately withdraw the workload again.
    2. Nforce
      Nforce 18 May 2016 18: 06
      -1
      Alas, this is envy. Nothing personal.
    3. kotvov
      kotvov 18 May 2016 19: 21
      +4
      He has already had three returned first steps in his warehouse. One of them turned out
      damaged. So what? ,,
      not one damaged, but all. he acknowledged that it was not possible to use the returning steps.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 18 May 2016 16: 41
    +2
    The Dream Chaser spaceship is an analogue of our Bor 4
  • tafalar
    tafalar 18 May 2016 16: 45
    +1
    the Russians are laughing; the Chinese are giggling, but kakly are interested) and offer cooperation in the sphere ... well, just a sphere or a ball. zrada turns out.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 18 May 2016 16: 47
    0
    And start “Dream Chaser will be with such an aircraft, which this year will fly into the air.
    1. Rus2012
      18 May 2016 18: 46
      -2
      Quote: Vadim237
      with in such an airplane

      "a weak likeness of the left hand", compared to MAKS, developments of the 80xx, USSR,
      from which they licked the idea.

      Most recently, I had to hear the reason why the program was closed - they say there is an agreement with 3,14ndos about the mutual undevelopment of aerospace systems.

      How our people will look at the further "masturbation" of amers on this topic, even if not at the state level, is still a mystery ...
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 May 2016 19: 10
        0
        And in terms of mass, the same as MAKS - 544 tons - "Recently I had to hear the reason why the program was closed - they say there is an agreement with 3,14ndos on the mutual non-development of aerospace systems" - such an agreement does not exist at all, in the USA even BRs are launched from aircraft for missile defense testing, and also numerous air launch projects are being developed.
        1. Rus2012
          18 May 2016 19: 28
          0
          Quote: Vadim237
          as well as developing numerous air launch projects.

          ... facts to the studio, ok?

          I have written "mutual agreement", which sometimes means - a gentleman's non-public agreement. As well as the temporary non-deployment of tactical nuclear weapons on surface military ships. And much more ...
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 18 May 2016 20: 19
            -1
            SpaceShip One Air Launch
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 18 May 2016 20: 24
            -1
            SpaceShip Two
          3. Vadim237
            Vadim237 18 May 2016 20: 33
            -1
            Pegasus air launch rocket, under wing B 52
          4. Vadim237
            Vadim237 18 May 2016 20: 37
            -1
            Lockheed Martin and the United States Missile Defense Agency have successfully tested the prototype of an EMRBM medium-range ballistic missile target.
            1. Rus2012
              18 May 2016 21: 00
              +2
              Quote: Vadim237
              The United States Missile Defense Agency has successfully tested the prototype of an EMRBM medium-range ballistic missile target.

              ... under this program, a protest has already been brought regarding the violation of the DRMSD.

              For the rest - the corresponding conclusions are made. For example -
              LII prepares IL-76LL for testing an experimental hypersonic aircraft
              According to the newspaper "Zhukovsky News", in the LII them. Gromov on the basis of the IL-76LL transport aircraft, a flying laboratory is being created to conduct experiments with a hypersonic flying vehicle separated from the carrier aircraft.

              According to LII Director General Pavel Vlasov, “the GLL-AP hypersonic flying laboratory is being developed with the aim of creating an experimental base for conducting flight research of a demonstration high-speed, ramjet engine integrated with an experimental hypersonic aircraft (EGLA).”

              http://aviation21.ru/v-lii-gotovyat-il-76ll-dlya-ispytanij-eksperimentalnogo-gip
              erzvukovogo-letatelnogo-apparata /
  • Ilya_GN
    Ilya_GN 18 May 2016 16: 58
    +2
    A sad rubric of opinion. All crap and open spaces are carried. Stop copy-paste PLIZ!
    in the same place in the article it is written:
    "new launches scheduled for 26 May"
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 18 May 2016 17: 06
    -2
    I must admit that Elon Musk is the American Korolev, who has a desire for space exploration and interest in this matter - a desire for technological progress.
    1. Jackking
      Jackking 18 May 2016 18: 01
      +6
      do not tell me, but what is the education of this "genius", which can pull to the level of the Queen ???
      1. Rus2012
        18 May 2016 18: 22
        +4
        Quote: Jackking
        do not tell me, but what is the education of this "genius", which can pull to the level of the Queen ???

        It seems to me and to many that a "genius", as well as those who believe in him, as a rule, humanities and poorly educated "physicists", study and recognition in their scientific and technical environment is not necessary, even harmful! :)))))))))))))) He feels everything "advanced" at the "gut" level, just like his fans ...

        According to the wiki, I.Mask is a bachelor in economics and physics!
      2. godofwar6699
        godofwar6699 18 May 2016 18: 33
        +4
        have you heard about the project?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 19 May 2016 14: 17
          -1
          Our Railways is already interested in this train - maybe even a contract will be signed for cooperation.
          1. opus
            opus 24 May 2016 21: 01
            +1
            Quote: Vadim237
            Our Railways is already interested in this train - maybe even a contract will be signed for cooperation.

            He refused.
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 May 2016 19: 15
        -2
        Consider, like Korolev, a fancier - self-taught - with subsequent promotion.
        1. Rus2012
          18 May 2016 19: 42
          +4
          Quote: Vadim237
          Korolev Zateynik - self-taught

          Korolev is a comforter, for starters.
          Since 1935 of the year - Head of the Department of RNII. In the 38th deputy director of this institute.
          In 43 he was already the Chief Designer of a group of rocket launchers in the Tupolev "sharashka".
          With 46go - Ch. Designer OKB-1.
      4. Vitali-46
        Vitali-46 18 May 2016 20: 13
        -2
        Well, tell me what was the education of Mikhail Kalashnikov ??
      5. opus
        opus 24 May 2016 21: 05
        0
        Quote: Jackking
        do not tell me, but what is the education of this "genius", which can pull to the level of the Queen ???


        There are links in the article. Do you comment without reading? ..Then it is clear crying
        a member of any fucked up?

        ========================
        -Born on 28 June 1971 years in South Africa. His family was mixed. Father, a South African, was an engineer. And his mother, a Canadian, is a nutritionist.
        Childhood Mask passed in South Africa.
        -At the age of 10, he got his first computer. Elon immediately showed interest in self-taught programming... At the age of 12, he made $ 500 by selling the game Blastar (a shooter in the spirit of Space Invaders), which he "programmed" himself.
        -After graduation schools in Pretoria, he decided to leave the house and without parental support, emigrate from South Africa to the United States. But Elon didn’t get to the USA right away. First, Canada lived with relatives
        - Having received citizenship, Elon Musk goes to Montreal, where at first, agrees to any job and balances on the brink of poverty for almost a year. He soon enters Queen's University of Ontario
        - He moved to America, receiving a scholarship to study at the University of Pennsylvania. The next year he received a degree Bachelor in Business but decided to stay at the university for another year to receive bachelor's degrees in physics.

        Did I chew well?
  • Days
    Days 18 May 2016 17: 34
    +2
    The banter is counted, but the article is delusional. It gives maydanuyu patriotism, when the ancient Ukrainians reasoned about the fence 5 meters above the flight of Caliber-NK.
  • grafin
    grafin 18 May 2016 17: 35
    +1
    we have been licked the scheme since the 90s when they sawed and grabbed technology and specialists, the achievements and backlogs of Soviet factories are still being milked - though our minds have enough not to get down from the Union and quietly trade 60 years old production engines with America ... .engineering slaves of the era of the USSR slowly died out .. and new did not grow
  • Jackking
    Jackking 18 May 2016 17: 58
    +4
    Great article. And who does not like phraseological turnovers - so this is not the Great Soviet Encyclopedia ...
    And how everyone "nourished by the air of freedom of the West" breathed these holy words for them - Mask, Ilon Mask. Look, quilted jackets, how in the free west an ordinary person can achieve that he will build and launch space rockets. and cheaper than in rashka !!! But sometime there comes a time of sobering up - and the blindingly advanced rocket, after the cover falls, turns out to be a tin pipe on chicken legs, which was created, in spite of the engineers, by “effective managers”. Alas, even the managers who created the very concept of "management" cannot break the laws of physics. And this is probably. It's a shame for managers all over the world - this day will be mourning for them :)))
  • pimen
    pimen 18 May 2016 17: 59
    +3
    the idea seems a step backward compared to shuttles. The only rational moment is to parachute the detached engine block with subsequent splashdown. The task is much smarter and easier
    1. pimen
      pimen 20 May 2016 19: 29
      0
      article is brilliant
  • Nforce
    Nforce 18 May 2016 18: 12
    -2
    This is also the idea of ​​Ilona Mask http://rg.ru/2016/05/17/v-ssha-ispytali-dvigatel-pervogo-vakuumnogo-poezda.html
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. solohan
      solohan 18 May 2016 19: 10
      +1
      it is so a word about genius
      1. Nforce
        Nforce 18 May 2016 20: 11
        -2
        And what follows from this?
      2. Nforce
        Nforce 18 May 2016 20: 17
        0
        Everything that was before was not viable for various reasons. And it was he who proposed the Hyperloop system. And the two companies are engaged in it. It's just that no one will spend their money.
        1. solohan
          solohan 18 May 2016 20: 27
          +3
          idea belay or the Hyperloop system above. You told me about the idea and answered ...
        2. Jackking
          Jackking 18 May 2016 21: 20
          +1
          That's right, everything new from the mask is a well-hidden (stolen) alien, smeared with budget kickbacks and working in presentations ...
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 19 May 2016 14: 22
            -1
            "Working in presentations .." - No, already working in practice
            1. Jackking
              Jackking 20 May 2016 11: 08
              0
              Take the trouble to explain - what exactly? Actually, the article touches on rocket science. And the satellites. if my memory serves me :))), they started to launch in the USSR a long time ago.
    3. yehat
      yehat 19 May 2016 10: 51
      +1
      this idea is already at least 100 years old lol
      it does not belong to any Ilon Mask
      in the USSR in 30 years there was an attempt to do something similar, but it was a clear gamble
      and the man spent a full time for it. They tried to implement this idea to varying degrees several more times, however, only recently have technologies been available both in terms of level and cost to start a real attempt.
      The idea hung in the air - the Japanese, Germans, and Chinese recently searched for investors for similar projects.
      As for the project itself, it still has a lot of unresolved problems, for example, the safe braking algorithm
  • rudolff
    rudolff 18 May 2016 18: 38
    +8
    Fragment from the movie of the 50s.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 May 2016 19: 18
      -1
      60 years have passed and such a landing was made in reality - only not with us.
      1. Rus2012
        18 May 2016 19: 50
        +4
        Quote: Vadim237
        just not with us.

        Yes?
        But reactive-dynamic braking of descent vehicles, when landing heavy aircraft of the Airborne Forces, landing on the moon, take-off and landing of vertical planes - how does it not count?

        Already wrote -
        during the development of the Energia-Buran spacecraft, from the very beginning the TZ had a requirement - to ensure a soft landing of the first stage, with the possibility of reuse.
        But, many copies were broken, and as a result, top management convinced that this is redundant, has no prospects, and both technically and economically is not justified. Rt
      2. msm
        msm 19 May 2016 15: 21
        +1
        Sorry, but you can’t be so intrusive. Tired already.
  • Operator
    Operator 18 May 2016 18: 40
    +4
    Elon Musk is a successful American businessman entrusted with 10 billion dollars of interest-free state advance payment for future flights in the interests of NASA and the Pentagon, plus the nth number of billions of dollars of state gratuitous aid in the form of transfer of know-how in the field of space technology and free use of military infrastructure US air bases and spaceports.

    The Falcon's design is composed of well-known technical solutions, including the "macaroni" scheme of the launch vehicle (copied from the Soviet "Zenith", the first launch in 1985). The only innovation is the reusable reusable first stage, which has not yet been tested in practice - the descent has been carried out, the restart has not been made.

    The scheme of delivering cargo to near-Earth orbit using reusable carriers is commercially unprofitable in comparison with single-use ones; the delivery price is increased by at least two times due to the need to raise the ballast into the orbit - the first stage with a landing gear and a fuel supply for landing with a working engine.

    Reuse of the first stage is possible only after its disassembly, troubleshooting, assembly and testing, which makes up the bulk of the costs in the cost of the stage. Conventional rocket engines have a three-fold margin in the number of starts, in order to raise the stock to ten launches, it will be necessary to increase the cost of the engines by at least twice. Given the cost of the one-time first and second stage, we can confidently say that there is no economic gain in comparison with a fully disposable launch vehicle.

    Therefore, even after the commissioning of all Falcon elements, launches will be carried out only in the interests of US government agencies at the expense of the prepayment already received from NASA and the Pentagon. Commercial launches will remain with the cheaper Soyuz and Proton launch vehicles.

    In the future, Ilon Mask may have legal claims from the new US administrations in connection with the unlawful transfer of state intangible assets to his property - know-how with a specific monetary value.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 May 2016 19: 23
      -2
      Mask has already had commercial launches and will continue to do so - all of its US satellites will launch on its missiles.
      1. Jack-b
        Jack-b 18 May 2016 19: 44
        +1
        Quote: Vadim237
        Mask has already had commercial launches and will continue to do so - all of its US satellites will launch on its missiles.

        They will launch them without their Mask on their rockets. What is the merit of the Mask? Do you know that despite such a wonderful genius of Mask, NASA is developing its own SLS rocket? Those. they don’t really hope for Mask. Or they know for sure that he will burn.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 19 May 2016 01: 04
          -2
          And where does the superheavy rocket SLS- Mask have a pile niche - a new heavy rocket with a carrying capacity of 54 tons.
  • In100gram
    In100gram 18 May 2016 19: 04
    +1
    Everything in this world is controversial. But, I think, the technology of returning the first stage is not cost-effective because of the high risks. Well, of course, carrying excess weight with you is a dubious benefit. And transportation by rail or not by rail is not a critical issue. And not such "scrap metal" is transported in the world. As an example AN-225 or Airbus A300-600ST.
  • Vitali-46
    Vitali-46 18 May 2016 19: 57
    -1
    Dear author, why didn’t you mention that rogue and rogue Elon Musk created a company in America to produce fully electric vehicles (without an internal combustion engine) Cars called Tesla have very good technical characteristics So! Cruising range 400 km acceleration 0-100 3,2 seconds (Tesla model SP85D) Moreover, the sedan is the most comfortable business class in terms of equipment and is not inferior to the same BMW 5 Series in terms of equipment. Yes, the cars are not cheap at all (in Russia the Tesla model S costs about 5 rubles), but they are already became legendary! In 000, 0000 cars were sold in the United States in Europe, 2015 units. In addition, Tesla produced a naturally all-electric crossover! And Tesla presented a pre-production model of the relatively affordable Model 25 and more than 416 people who want to buy it. Tell me a car company , which produces an electric car with such indicators ??? And this same rogue Elon Musk took and created, and in a very short time !! Or remind you of the same Ro the Russian Billionaire, what was trying to create an electric car company in our country? (Remember your mobile phone)
    1. Rus2012
      18 May 2016 20: 10
      +1
      Quote: Vitaliy-46
      Elon Musk took and created, and in a very short time !!

      Sorry, do you already have this pontorez? :))))

      The realities of using the Tesla electric car within the harsh mother Russia ...
      In general, the first electric cars have already appeared in Moscow: from Yandex-taxi, I already bought two cars in the summer in order to introduce Moscow residents to such an innovation, and the head of the mail group purchased an expensive electric car and still speaks very well about it.

      But what about us mere mortals? Let's imagine what difficulties will have to face if a middle-class representative buys a car.

      Price. She is, to put it mildly, "cosmic." Given the fact that the average Russian lives with a mortgage and a couple of loans, show-offs will be expensive. If suddenly everyone wants Tesla, then we are waiting for the announcement "I change wheels from Tesla for a monthly installment on a mortgage."

      Charging. The infrastructure of electric charges in Russia is not yet developed. You will have to think through your route in advance from "outlet to outlet." Without a doubt, charging your own car will make you a more collected and responsible person. But we are quick-witted people: a pair of portable batteries will fit into the Tesla trunk, and at night you can always charge a car in a dirty garage with a smoking diesel. In general, the main desire.

      Repairs. You no longer have to "fix" your uncle Ashot in the neighboring yard - get ready to ride at the Tesla dealership, which will certainly appear in Moscow. And it will cost in proportion to the pontoons, a lot.
      By the way ... Tesla is hardly repairable due to the unpredictability of the behavior of the acres who received even small hidden damage! Therefore - change, change and change to new cars!

      Winter. An interesting fact is that one of Tesla in Russia is listed in the Chukotka Autonomous Region. They know about winter there firsthand. A couple of reasonable questions arise: is it generally convenient to sit behind the wheel of an electric car in a fur coat? And is the electric car ready for a “cold start” in forty-degree frost and emergency heating with burning tar on a stick?

      Parking and security. If you are preparing your brand new electric car in the evening, say, in Lyubertsy (or at least in a slightly friendlier Maryino), what will be left of your car in the morning?

      In the meantime, the image of the Tesla owner in Russia looms as follows: he’s a brave hipster “at the posts”, pretending that he cares about the environment (and in fact about his image), having a diesel engine, a couple of gas cans and a huge reserve of faith in a bright electrified future .

      http://popsotech.ru/tesla-prizhivutsya-li-elektrokary-v-rossii/
      1. Nforce
        Nforce 18 May 2016 23: 02
        +1
        There are pluses; no need to change the oil; no gearbox. There are people who have traveled more than 100000 thousand and all the rules. The disadvantages are long charging, few charging stations. At the expense of winter nonsense. He was the first to launch an electric car with such characteristics. Another drawback for me would be to increase the mileage by 2 times. Having traveled on it, you will not want to transfer to a car with ICE.

      2. Vitali-46
        Vitali-46 19 May 2016 06: 52
        0
        The identity of Elon Mask is discussed here !!! So who do you think the rogue put as the author of the article, or the person who does something useful for his country? As for the operation of electric vehicles .... I will tell you a secret .. Elon Mask So surprised the automotive world with its creation, that famous brands like Mercedes BMW Audi and even Porsche scratch their turnips, and promise to create a competitor to Tesla in a couple of years ...
    2. Jackking
      Jackking 18 May 2016 21: 31
      +3
      the question is - I wonder, do you know where the electricity comes from that moves these miracle cars? Does electricity really appear in them immediately after the sight of the great creator - Ion? So, in order for these cars to move, they "pumped" electricity into them, which they received, fi, burning any fossil fuel or at a nuclear power plant (I will not say anything about solar batteries for now). And the efficiency of this process, I assure you, is by no means 100%. So today it is more profitable to directly burn fuel in an internal combustion engine than to go through such a thorny path to transfer energy from a generator to a super-duper car. But when this guru, a physicist-manager, comes up with batteries, cheap, without "memory" and with an efficiency of at least 60%, then yes, it will be possible to talk about its greatness. Today, these cars are simple show-offs and attempts by image makers ...
      1. Rus2012
        18 May 2016 21: 48
        +4
        Quote: Jackking
        Today, these cars are simple show-offs and attempts of image makers ...


        For interest, a Tesla report with comments -
        HONESTLY - ABOUT TESLU
        With the Citizen calculator for 2 dollars ...

        Finally, I waited for an honest "tester" - Alexander Chachava will publish the results of his ride on a Tesla car. Here they are: https://vc.ru/p/tesla-winter

        So, what is the bottom line:

        1) Alexander has been riding this miracle of modern ecology for a year and a half, has traveled as many as 14 thousand km. A little for Moscow and the region. Even in my provincial Riga I rarely fit in 20 thousand per year. Usually - 25-28, that is, 3 times more. Well, all right ... Tesla is not a car for long trips. From the outlet to the outlet.

        2) Alexander charges his eco-car in two places - at home and in the country - from specially installed powerful sockets for 32 amperes (for those who don’t know what “amperes” are, I’ll inform you that a regular socket only holds them 10). At the same time, even on such a super-32-ampere socket, charging the car with him lasts about 10 hours. And from the usual network, as he says, charging takes more than a day, and at the same time “adapters” are lit. Pichalka ...

        3) And now (drum roll!) About the price of a kilometer on electricity. In the photo there is a screen from a flowmeter of the great miracle of modern scientific thought, which all environmentalists of the world masturbate on. Alexander’s kilometer drive takes about 300 watts * hour. That is, at 100 Km - 30 kilowatts * hour. We take the Citizen calculator and consider ... One kilowatt * hour at our (rather cheap) Latvian rates - 17 eurocents. So, on 100 km, the ecological Tesla is eating electricity - on 5,1 euros. For this money in Latvia you can buy about 5 liters of diesel fuel ... Um ...

        4) But after all, these 300 watts * hour are the data of an electric vehicle flowmeter ... And those who studied physics at school know that the process of charging-leak-discharge of a battery eats up additional 15-20% of energy. That is, from a home electric meter to its 100 km, this miracle of ecology already eats 6 liters of diesel fuel per 100 km (in terms of money) ...

        5) Six liters per hundred? So it’s only half a liter less than once upon a time ago I ate my Ford Sierra 1989 model year. A quarter century has passed ... And modern turbocharged diesel engines in 5 liters are easy to fit.

        6) So maybe there is a saving in the price of the car? Oh, No. The cheapest Tesla in the most budget configuration with the dead battery costs 70 thousand euros. And with a good large battery - almost 100 thousand. That is three times more than a similar sedan of the Toyota Avensis type with all the bells and whistles.

        7) In short, we buy the best Avensis for 30 thousand, and the remaining 40 thousand euros (the difference between the budget Tesla and the most sophisticated Avensis) we transfer to fuel and drive it - for free ... 600 thousand kilometers! 15 times around the globe! 25 years ... By the way, has anyone already traveled 600 thousand kilometers on the Tesla? Or at least 60 thousand? Share your experience ...

        And now a bold conclusion: “Tesla” - show off and NOTHING MORE!

        http://imhoclub.by/ru/material/chestno_pro_teslu#ixzz492DDUwE0
      2. opus
        opus 19 May 2016 15: 00
        +1
        Quote: Jackking
        the question is interesting, but you know where the electricity comes from,

        in the know, in the know ...
        Quote: Jackking
        Is it possible that electricity appears in them right after the vision of the great creator -ionon?

        directly in the production of Li-Ion cells (unprotected batteries).
        tn "dry-charged", holds under 6 months, bought a machine and roll (until the next refueling)
        don't believe me? buy a mobile phone, insert a SIM card and make a call without going to the outlet
        Quote: Jackking
        So, in order for these cars to move, they "pumped" electricity into them, which they received, fi, burning any fossil fuel or at a nuclear power plant (I will not say anything about solar batteries for now). And the efficiency of this process, I assure you, is by no means 100%

        1. Ash stump.
        The cost of kWh in retail with us is 2,5r (socket), wholesale 0,9-1,2r. At night cheaper

        Tesla Model X, Model 90D, battery capacity - 90 kWh; enough battery power at 402 km.
        take the coefficient 0,8 (well, there is climate, heating, doors, electrics, weather) 280 km
        *** 90 kWh = 280 km, 280 km = 90 * 2,5р = 225 rubles for 280 km. TWENTY TWENTY-FIVE RUBLES. Ipt !! how much.
        **** 100km for gasoline, this is 10 liters, liter 36 p.
        280 km = 2,8 * 100km = 2,8 * 10 = 28 Lt.
        28 liters * 36 = 1008 rubles (THOUSAND) for 280 km
        uh ... in 4 more than CHEAPER it's cheaper to ride on electricity. No? Explain why?
        .. .. maybe I was wrong somewhere? correct
        After all, you are before you argue nonsense:
        Quote: Jackking
        So today it is more profitable to directly burn fuel in the internal combustion engine than to go through such a thorny path to transfer energy from a generator to a super-duper car.

        fool
        read / thought, huh?
        Quote: Jackking
        And the efficiency of this process, I assure you, is by no means 100%.

        Electric station efficiency
        NPPs 40-44%, TPPs (coal) 33-35% to GPPs (gas-piston) 40-46% / CCGT 65%, HPPs-94% (TPPs above + 2-3%)

        Efficiency of a gasoline and diesel engine, the first of them is not effective enough and converts into useful action total 25-30% energy generated.
        For example, the efficiency of a standard diesel engine reaches 40%, and the use of turbocharging and intercooling raises this value to 50%.

        Well, how?

        Quote: Jackking
        It’s more profitable to directly burn fuel in the internal combustion engine than to go through such a thorny path

        ?bunch....
        Quote: Jackking
        cheap, without "memory" and with an efficiency of at least 60%
        1. opus
          opus 19 May 2016 15: 01
          +1
          What do you mean by battery efficiency belay

          Efficiency of the charging process within 62 ... 71%. and higher. For Li-ion /

          The HP DirectFlow three-phase system (12-20 kW output) includes a separate power management unit that combines all the main components of the UPS (charger, inverter and active filter) in one device. HP R12000 DirectFlow 1U UPS delivers up to 12 kVA HP DirectFlow efficiency exceeds 99%.

          Traction electric motors (TED) have an efficiency of up to 90-95%, compared with 22-42% for ICE

          Oh yes ... I also forgot about energy recovery, the lack of toxic emissions in the most dangerous areas, the dependence of the emission, ICE efficiency on load, HF rotation speed, etc.
          Quote: Jackking
          . Today, these cars are simple show-offs and attempts of image makers ...

          yes, yes Khguru broadcasts, picking his nose.

          22-23 on May 2010 converted into an electric car Daihatsu mira EV, the creation of the Japan Electric Vehicle Club, traveled 1003,184 kilometers on a single battery charge

          they are different ... "who have no analogs in the world", and having

        2. Jackking
          Jackking 19 May 2016 17: 22
          +1
          To be honest. you don’t even want to comment on the complete nonsense, but still:
          1. "Directly during the production of Li-Ion cells (unprotected batteries).
          tn "dry-charged", holds under 6 months, bought a car and roll (until the next refueling) "- for information, even in them, electricity does not appear simply from nowhere (the law of conservation of energy). It will sound crazy to you, but they are also charged ( it is fatal for Li-po to be uncharged)
          2. "Electrical efficiency of stations
          NPP 40-44%, TPP (coal) 33-35% to GPPP (gas piston) 40-46% / CCGT 65%, HPP-94% (CHPP above + 2-3%) "- once again, who did not hear - electricity enters Tesla's battery from these power plants, and not without losses.So, if you burn fuel in an engine with an efficiency of 40-46%, it will be more profitable than deducting losses from the power plant's efficiency during transportation and injection of electricity into a supercar.
          PS When you take off your pink glasses, you will understand that electricity is not taken from anywhere - it appears, including from power plants that burn organic fuel with an efficiency lower than 100%. And when this electricity is still moving to the batteries, with losses, then see p2.
          1. opus
            opus 19 May 2016 17: 55
            +1
            Quote: Jackking
            utter nonsense

            Especially about efficiency, right?
            Quote: Jackking
            - for information, even in them electricity does not appear just out of nowhere (the law of conservation of energy)

            where do we ..
            This is a CHEMICAL battery, right?

            A lithium-ion battery consists of electrodes (cathode material on aluminum foil and anode material on copper foil), separated by electrolyte-impregnated porous separators.
            Not well, I agree
            Quote: Jackking
            law of energy conservation

            Schaub get lithium (generally the sun, pool and sea water), plastic and GASOLINE, you need to spend energy.
            right
            Get oil, deliver it, crack, and so on.
            You are about this thing about
            Quote: Jackking
            complete nonsense, but still:

            ?
            Quote: Jackking
            once again, who did not hear - the electricity gets into the Tesla battery from these power plants, and not without loss. So here. if you burn fuel in an engine with an efficiency of 40-46%, it will be more profitable than subtracting from the efficiency of the power plant the losses during transportation and pouring electricity into the supercar.


            Why are you dumb in life?

            1. The average weighted efficiency for ES will be in the region of 50% (taking into account heat: a heat engine, how do you heat water in batteries and how do you wash (I hope) for more
            2. 50% * 95% (TED) * 80% -90% (charge, part to heat) TOTAL = 0,4-0,5%
            YOU ARE WRONG TO GET SUCH EFFICIENCY on the ICE, the pants will tear, then the efficiency of the gearbox (92%), because 25-40% is only the efficiency of the ICE!
            Total = 23-37%
            And "For those who are in the tank"
            You are here broadcasting about efficiency, but forget about the "efficiency" of the cost of obtaining the purest AI-92/98 or DT-E5

            What to bay and carry nonsense


            (yeah, electricity sellers are operating at a loss, hydropower plants, other power plants are the same? fool )
            1. opus
              opus 19 May 2016 17: 59
              0
              gasoline, diesel fuel (2014 with)


              The figures are kWh per km and liters per km I gave. AND EVEN COUNTED: how much it costs us build a house drive 100km. Are you stubborn as a Ukrainian?
              Enough to count enough?
              And what is more profitable?
              Quote: Jackking
              When you take off your pink glasses, you will realize that electricity is not being taken from anywhere.

              I do not have them.
              take off your pink glasses to understand that gasoline in the form of rain does not spill
              Quote: Jackking
              And when this electricity is still moving into the batteries, with losses, then see n2.

              these losses are taken into account, you sho read ne mohete?

              losses in the energy networks of the Russian Federation up to 17% (and are growing), Europe - up to 4-9%, USA - up to 7-9%

              I give you the tariffs for retail consumer, and you're talking about Thomas.
              Well, you can’t be bastard like the horses of a neighboring country lol
              1. Jackking
                Jackking 20 May 2016 12: 20
                +1
                1. In the world today there are not enough electric generations even for current needs. for powering miracle cars it will be necessary to build generating capacities that will also violate the environment and burn fossil fuels
                2. "panacea for solar batteries" - the service life is limited, the efficiency is scanty, disposal in terms of complexity is comparable to the disposal of nuclear waste
                3. It has been correctly noted that a turbodiesel has an efficiency of up to 50% - and you yourself have called the efficiency of thermal power plants at 46% (For information, 1 cubic meter of gas is equivalent to 1 liter of diesel fuel - this is for comparison purposes). And this electricity must be transported and poured into the battery (with losses)
                PS "Sonny", for insults you can get into the food area, a couch daredevil, who can only quote others ...
                1. opus
                  opus 20 May 2016 13: 55
                  0
                  Quote: Jackking
                  1. In the world today there are not enough electric generations even for current needs. for powering miracle cars it will be necessary to build generating capacities that will also violate the environment and burn fossil fuels

                  1. Why lie?

                  liar ... In the world of excess electricity generated

                  Electricity production, demand and exports in Germany over a decade
                  all export and sell.
                  penny prices

                  2.a ICE (more than 2 000 000 000 only LIGHT CARS) which is not burned
                  Quote: Jackking
                  fossil fuels
                  ?
                  Efficiency 25% -40% (not all against 50-60% Power plants.
                  Well, Kos, quickly calculate the lope will save billions of tons of fossil fuels
                  3. Yes.
                  ICE is a thermal machine, like T (G) ES, it requires a temperature difference.
                  Your ICE throws 800grs into the air, warms the atmosphere, warming
                  Power station:heats the city / proud district, provides hot water for people, heats pools, fish ponds, greenhouses, heats football fields, etc.
                  In Stockholm, in the summer, 300grS is pumped with water of the 2go thermal power plant circuit into wells,, in the winter, houses are heated, T in May = 70grC coolant
                  4. Problems TP and deliver, then yes (especially with us). Therefore, we deliver to Ukraine, and in Ukraine delivers to us. Everything from the location.
                  Same Sweden-Norway-Finland-Russia
                  - Electricity export from Russia in January-August, 2015 of the year increased by 1,5 times and amounted to 12,7 billion kWh, it follows from the materials of the Federal Customs Service.
                  In monetary terms, exports increased by 17%, to $ 524 million.

                  *** Export to non-CIS countries increased by 23% and amounted to 7,4 billion kWh, in monetary terms - decreased by 1,8%, to $ 301,3 million

                  *** Export to the CIS countries increased by 2,2 times, to 5,226 billion kWh, in monetary terms, it increased by 1,6 times, to $ 222,6 million.

                  -Import of electricity to Russia in January-August it increased by 1,5 times and reached 5,1 billion kWh, in monetary terms it increased by 1,46 times - up to $ 223,8 million.

                  Quote: Jackking
                  2. "panacea for solar batteries" - the service life is limited, the efficiency is scanty, disposal in terms of complexity is comparable to the disposal of nuclear waste

                  Do not beat the crap she screeches.
                  1. Efficiency of solar batteries 30-40% (and this is not in the Sahara, but in Germany), your ICE is 25-40%. Whose miserable?
                  2.Service life? now the first generation life cycle is ending (CP degradation). the first generation is the 1980s! nihrenase "limited"! 35 years
                  3.Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment (WEEE) and Regulation of Hazardous Substances.
                  1. opus
                    opus 20 May 2016 13: 59
                    +1
                    Photovoltaic solar modules contain substances such as glass, aluminum and semiconductor materials that can be successfully recovered and reused, either in new photovoltaic modules or in the manufacture of other products /
                    The modern solar cell recycling process can restore up to 90% of glass suitable for use in new products and up to 95% of semiconductor materials for use in new production, including solar cells.

                    Compare with: oil, antifreeze, brake fluid, asbestos, carcinogens, other henna in cars / ICE
                    Siemens AG, Solar World, PV-Cycle, Umicore, BASF, AEG, Mercedes will soon be beaten up for the right to recycle SB waste (1.5 million photovoltaic solar installations. This is 150 million solar modules on 2012)

                    Threat. German Heliatek sets new world performance record for organic solar panels - 10,7%, having blocked its previous achievement in 9,8%, in a few years the efficiency of such batteries will reach 15%.

                    No ppe - pure organics !!! Recycling-in Compost

                    Georgia Institute of Technology has created a wood-based (cellulose) solar panel .... recycling: furniture, firebox, compost

                    3. Germany updated the record for the share of energy received from solar panels. On 9 day of June 2014 year, 23,1 GWh of energy from solar cells was supplied to the national grid which amounted to 50,6% of daily consumption, said the Fraunhofer ISE Institute for Solar Energy Systems.

                    The map shows in red the area that must be covered with batteries to meet the energy needs of the whole world (left square), Europe (middle square) or only Germany (right square).


                    Quote: Jackking
                    3. It has been correctly noted that a turbodiesel has an efficiency of up to 50% - and you yourself called the efficiency of TPPs in 46%

                    La la. Poplars.
                    for some reason, we take the efficiency of the internal combustion engine (turbodiesel), but forget the "efficiency" of oil production, processing it into gasoline / diesel fuel, delivery to gas stations and TD.
                    and for electric vehicles, we persistently palm off KPDZh Power plants.
                    Where is the logic?
                    mb recalculate the efficiency for a turbodiesel car, taking into account all of the above listed by me?
                    Quote: Jackking
                    PS "Sonny", for insults you can get into the food area, a couch daredevil, who can only quote others ...

                    Daddy, let's try, not you first, not you last, then don’t complain to the OP.

                    "quote". At least I can cite CHF, and who has fermented waste products of organisms instead of brains, I am not even able to quote.
                    I’m talking with you and I’m “conducting” conversations just so that you would not be able to spot other heads that are not yet affected by pus. it will reach someone.
    3. yehat
      yehat 19 May 2016 11: 04
      +4
      firstly, cars are made even in Africa, and even more so in the USA. Secondly, in the United States they hold almost all patents for new developments of batteries and equipment for them. All Mask needed was to cross his bonds, hedgehog and snake. The banal question of resource concentration. Do you call it genius? Or else say that he proposed the first electric car?
      I would advise clearly articulating and representing the processes.
      For example, a radio. It did not owe its appearance to Marconi or Popov, but to the long-term results of the work of Rutherford and Planck - both in the laboratory and in the public, in order to prepare a breakthrough in the field. And in the wiki you read that Marconi is ours. And he did everything he did, read the magazines on time and implemented the experience prepared for him on time.
      Same thing with Mask. He is simply not too lazy to learn and use the latest developments and has the resources to get them. That's all.
      And automobile concerns, with all their power, do not always have access to the latest technologies, new developments are limited by tight budgets, patents are expensive, and therefore in new areas their capabilities are no higher than those of Mask.
  • Awaz
    Awaz 18 May 2016 21: 27
    +6
    funny))) once upon a time, when all this hysteria with the Mask began, I already wrote somewhere my own reasoning on this topic. In general, I have nothing to do with space, but I come across commerce and corruption too. I do not know where this Mask was dug up in the USA. Probably this is some kind of shabby character, close to the upper circles of the United States or, most likely, the Jewish financial mafia. I don't know through what place, but it probably is. Maybe just a genius swindler. But this is unlikely. In general, even with all the "successes" of Mask, my attitude towards this topic has not changed. After all, if you think about it, then he really did not come up with anything and there are no breakthroughs. Having in general that unlimited financial resources, you can really do anything. And maybe someday the result will be. But the theme of the return of the first stage has long been worn out by all adequate specialists. At the moment it is not rational and will continue this way for a long time. The author of the post, of course, is a little swagger and a little manipulative, but in general he is right.
    If in Russia, for example, for Chubais, they allocated as many grandmas and transferred all space technology for free, I think he would hang noodles with us abruptly Mask, while launching copies of old Soviet missiles under full approval and massive media support.
    Well, here it’s not even obvious to a specialist that this is a dough cut. We singled out the most profitable financial project as a separate topic, dumped all of the most energy and financially costly moments onto NASA or some government agencies and are now promoting it as the success of one businessman. Such a topic has been used in Russia before and now in places, when a huge clumsy state-owned enterprise takes all the costs and top management allocates the most profitable final project, which brings fabulous profits and successfully steals and profits .. Nothing new has been invented here. At my work, a similar scheme works. The main production is on the verge of profitability and the distribution network has 100% profitability at least
  • Stabilization
    Stabilization 18 May 2016 21: 47
    +2
    It is strange that this topic caused such a stormy reaction among the defenders of this project)) ... it seems to characterize ....
    1. Rus2012
      18 May 2016 22: 08
      +6
      Quote: Stabilization
      defenders of this project

      ... among the so-called There are no "defenders of this project" not a single competent engineer from both the aerospace industry and the automotive industry.
      And no wonder, since these areas have been captured by "marketers" and "effective managers".
      Previously, in the engineering industries they fought for what:
      - machine efficiency
      - resource or durability
      - maintainability
      - ease of use
      and so on and so forth ...

      And wait, for -
      - cheap production
      - disposability
      - speed, i.e. modest resources, so that production is busy all the time, and brow is constantly trying to push a new product. Example, non-removable acces for gadgets. After all, it is known that the acc lives a short life - 1..2 of the year and cranks, people do not have time to get used to it, you already need to change the gadget as a whole! :))))))))))))

      A humanitarian-loer-manager are found. Ponty about 5 the same: Tesla, iPhones, iPads of the next model year ...
      They and their grown idols, such as Mask and others ...;))))))))))))))))))))))))
  • RomanS
    RomanS 18 May 2016 21: 59
    0
    Sorry for the replay. Americans are great specialists in PRESENTATION! And we, by the simplicity of our souls, are trying to figure out the real facts. And today there is no certainty that the Americans were on the moon (I do not believe). But the presentation of the lunar program at that time was already at the highest level, outside the veracity of the results (after all, no one disputes the flight of Yuri Gagarin). So today, beautiful packaging, with dubious results (who will tell the truth).
  • Old26
    Old26 18 May 2016 23: 41
    +3
    Read this article, sorry, opus and especially the comments. There is a small group, which were given minuses for their posts, and there is a group with solid pluses. The first - those who relate to both the successes and failures of the Americans without "rancor", look at it more or less realistically. The second are those who consider anything done by the Americans to suck, seeing it as a disadvantage. Well, as it was sung: "Everyone chooses for himself."
    I am amazed only by the statements that this is bullshit, this is dear to them, this is what they "slammed" with us. The question is somewhat different, but if they slammed with us, then why did they do it, but we did not.
    Here is their mini shuttle carrier aircraft. Slyamzili say with MAX. It could even be. Only for some reason it seems that this plane will fly with them. Where is our MAX?
    Yes, Musk does not succeed in everything, a lot of PR is possible, but what about us? Do we have such options? The same Degtyar talks about developments in this direction, so it is promising? For example, I read the statements of one author who said that the Americans "slammed" the landing system of the Dragon ship (powered by engines) from our Zarya. But there is no "Dawn" ... And the "Dragon" is. Yes, it does not fly with maximum load, but it does. And our analogue - "Federation" is planned already for 2023. Over the past 7-8 years, the concept of the ship has changed 7 times. We speak, and they do (unfortunately) ... You can recall their "Pegasus" and our "Burlak". And a lot more. And reading sometimes you catch yourself saying that if Musk had done it, but we would have spoken of it as a breakthrough, and not "unparalleled." And since the Americans did, then ...
  • fzr1000
    fzr1000 18 May 2016 23: 53
    +5
    Quote: opus
    Quote: fzr1000
    Tesla Motors has suffered billions in losses for more than a quarter.

    Well, they lied, so they lied
    1. Not billions, and millions
    2.Not in the quarter, and annual(US annual reporting)

    Why are you lying without blinking an eye? (And then we are surprised at the Ukrainians)
    Quote: fzr1000
    And this at prices of about 60 kb in the USA, Th

    and not only.
    and the resale of Honda quotes for cavalry for $ 7-17000 / car?
    So what?
    This is new.
    AND THE NETWORK OF "ELECTRIC STATIONS"

    Indeed, so lied, so lied. It's so nice that flew into the millions, not billions. Tell it something by borrowing money.
    By the way, add the loss figures in your table that you highlighted in yellow. There is not a billion hour turns? And in the United States, companies have interim financial reports throughout the year. This is for general development.
    You are well-versed or know how to extract information, but manners ...
    1. opus
      opus 19 May 2016 03: 22
      +1
      Quote: fzr1000
      It's so nice that flew into the millions, not billions

      The difference is 3 orders (!!!!), and even x 4 (quarter / year) there is?
      For me, a loss of 1 rubles or 000 rubles is significant.
      What do you think? Sounds like no?
      Quote: fzr1000
      Tell it something by borrowing money.

      1.nuuuu, at 1,2% per annum, at a rate of the Fed 0-0,5% .. tolerant
      2. the topic is no longer occupied, there are shares and Central Bank
      3.For them it's usual, in "+" it will come out, I'm 99%


      Especially to him

      4. to build your own battery plant, a network of "electric stations" is expensive

      Quote: fzr1000
      By the way, add the loss figures in your table that you highlighted in yellow. There is not a billion hour turns?

      1.LESS (- / +) YEAR.
      Dare

      Pay attention TAXES he pays
      13 billion USD in 2015 will interrupt, add, in past profit was

      Tesla Motors CEO and Co-founder Elon Musk received for his work at the company in 2013 only $ 1, follows from the reports sent by the manufacturer of electric cars to the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).
      How is it a limitation (The total amount of compensation that was due to the billionaire in 2013 is $ 33. This is the annual salary of the Tesla Motors CEO California Minimum Wage.) went around
      1. opus
        opus 19 May 2016 03: 26
        +1
        Quote: fzr1000
        And in the United States, companies have interim financial reports throughout the year. This is for general development.

        Yes, I know that.
        1. You do not confuse the financial report and accounting.
        2. It depends on which ones (this does not apply to Tesla). The turns are not the same, and there are NSP
        Meet (this is 2013)


        Quote: fzr1000
        You are well-versed or know how to extract information, but manners ..

        1.Thank you (and 1 and 2, I was taught this during the USSR)
        2. Sinned, offended - sorry. request
        1. fzr1000
          fzr1000 19 May 2016 08: 32
          +2
          Accepted. I write on the phone usually, on the road. There is no time and opportunity to dig deep. I heard about the big losses of the compassion and wrote here. But I definitely know from my own experience that, by and large, the shareholders still have a billion or a million losses. Loss is bad. They are interested in the size of the profit.
          Ps Myself Tesla would buy if there was an opportunity.
          And yet, no one will give you credit with such reporting; bank regulations will not allow it. But he was given, or what venture what thread?
          1. opus
            opus 19 May 2016 12: 35
            +1
            Quote: fzr1000
            And yet, no one will give you credit with such reporting; bank regulations will not allow it. But he was given, or what venture what thread?

            All true.
            I and he.
            (Although they will give me, well, let there be "I" someone)
            Example
            Rolls-Royce Group plc (yes, the one from Rolls-Royce Marine Trent / PWR2 Reactor to General Electric / Rolls-Royce F136)
            Debt ▼ - £ 15,837 billion (2014)
            Turnover ▼ - £ 13,736 billion (2014)
            Operating profit ▼ - £ 1,390 billion (2014)
            They give ... and new contracts.
            or:






            Give?
            KU! gave and will give, and not at 1,2%, but at 18%
          2. iwind
            iwind 19 May 2016 13: 20
            -1
            Quote: fzr1000
            And yet, no one will give you credit with such reporting; bank regulations will not allow it. But he was given, or what venture what thread?

            It will be from such reports that they will give and even thanks they will say that they took it. There are a few points;
            With their interest rate, refinancing is very unprofitable to keep money on deposit.
            And the most important thing is this (I already wrote).
            $ 1k revenue
            2015 $ 4,046,025
            2014 $ 3,198,356
            2013 2,013,496 $
            I really want to participate in the division of this later, the growth is very good. The construction of a new plant and infrastructure is about to end, and for this he is spending several billion a year.
            Losses are not always bad. The whole question is why they are.
            1. Operator
              Operator 19 May 2016 15: 41
              0
              Annual revenue growth rates are very poor - in 2014, they amounted to 50 percent, in 2015 - 25 percent.
              The trend is: 2016 - 12,5 percent, 2017 - 6,25 percent, 2018 - 3,125 percent, ...
              1. iwind
                iwind 19 May 2016 16: 29
                0
                Quote: Operator
                Annual revenue growth rates are very poor - in 2014, they amounted to 50 percent, in 2015 - 25 percent.
                The trend is: 2016 - 12,5 percent, 2017 - 6,25 percent, 2018 - 3,125 percent, ...

                mmm and this is normal amounts are growing. When your revenue is measured already several billion to have an increase of even a few% is good. Extensive growth in the economy is short-term.
                And fixed costs will only fall (depreciation and investment in new production).
                And what will happen in 2017, etc. if you don’t have a time machine then ....
                1. Operator
                  Operator 19 May 2016 17: 39
                  0
                  Banks do not need to have a time machine, they lend under the trend - in normal circumstances, Musk would not get a loan with such a dynamic financial performance.
                  1. iwind
                    iwind 19 May 2016 18: 06
                    0
                    Quote: Operator
                    Banks do not need to have a time machine, they lend under the trend - in normal circumstances, Musk would not get a loan with such a dynamic financial performance.

                    They lend to a lot of facts. - not so simple. And his dynamics are good + sales growth. Not all car manufacturers can now boast of this.
                    Money spent on fixed assets can always be confiscated. So why not give him money - factories and infrastructure, then anyway will remain.
                    And once again I repeat in the United States now very cheap money they need to invest.
                    1. fzr1000
                      fzr1000 19 May 2016 18: 56
                      +1
                      Dealing with the assets of a bankrupt borrower is always a pain for the bank.
                      1. opus
                        opus 19 May 2016 19: 06
                        +1
                        Quote: fzr1000
                        Dealing with the assets of a bankrupt borrower is always a pain for the bank.

                        and who is bankrupt?
                        and will it be?




                        27.11.2015 Elon Musk announced the development of a rocket engine to fly to Mars-will be used closed loop methane liquid engine (Raptor LRE)
                        Liquid-fuel engine
                        Propellant LOX / liquid methane
                        Mixture ratio O / F: 3.8 / 1
                        Cycle Full-flow staged combustion
                        Performance
                        Thrust (SL) 2,300 kN (230 tonnes-force)
                        Isp (vac.) 363 s
                        Isp (SL) 321 s

                        Building a test bench for the new Raptor rocket engine in McGregor, TX - 31 January 2016


                        Schaub I'm so "bankrupt"

                        and computational fluid dynamics, CFD?

                        real jam.
                        He will soon in his computer design combustion in microturbulent jets of RT in a liquid-propellant engine, and maybe he will swing at free radicals. Perhaps NPO Energia2 will order calculations from him
      2. Vitali-46
        Vitali-46 19 May 2016 07: 03
        -1
        Mikhail Podorozhansky Editor-in-chief of the Automotive Edition Autoreview! I changed my Porsche to Tesla. And his opinion is objective and more authoritative than all the experts taken ...
        1. fzr1000
          fzr1000 19 May 2016 08: 36
          +2
          Well, a Podorozhansky man is a little strange. Ride Carrera all year round in Moscow and the region is yes. Or he has more than one car. Then it's a little different, the second car is usually a toy.
  • Jackking
    Jackking 19 May 2016 01: 18
    +2
    reading the comments of enthusiastic commentators, I am surprised and cry - is it possible that the USE has so destructively affected people. do schools no longer teach physics?
  • Ilya77
    Ilya77 19 May 2016 08: 00
    +2
    That everyone on Musk was up in arms, he honestly earned his money - created PayPal, then he himself created Tesla Kars and SpaceX. It promotes innovative ideas and does not thump in Courchevel with whores * like some. This little article reminds articles of years of so devastating articles of the 50s about cybernetics or genetics. We would pay attention to our log in our eyes, we should not rest our whole lives on the laurels created in the mighty USSR.
  • edeligor
    edeligor 19 May 2016 08: 29
    +4
    Bravo!!!! Roll out like a pancake! I agree to all 100% !!!
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 19 May 2016 08: 43
    +4
    It is intelligibly written and the syllable is excellent.
    I just remember the shale panic about the shale gas.
    And what it later turned into (burning water in the tap).
    Then there was the ultra-mega F-35.
    Then Zumwalt, there is also not all clear.
    Now Falconin, well, in the article everything is described with her.
    I think that we have a lot of failures,
    but at least we don’t do such an advertisement before ...
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 19 May 2016 16: 11
      0
      1) shale gas and oil are produced perfectly.
      They just brought down world prices, knocked out OPEC, Russia, and all of Latin America.
      2) F-35 - 200 aircraft fly.
      3) Zumvolt - in service with the US Navy. The second is under construction.
      4) Space X works like a Swiss watch.

      In my opinion, the more successful an American project, the more
      devastating articles about him. Direct proportion. smile
      1. yehat
        yehat 19 May 2016 17: 19
        +3
        1. shale gas created a rush to lower prices. And not because he is good, but because the proposal has expanded.
        2. Still, out of 200 f35, no more than 40 flies. Yes, and those that fly have enough contingencies.
        3. The dark horse will be bogged down. To boast of it until it confirms the stated is too early.
        4. Like a Swiss watch falling to the floor. You cannot dismiss facts of accidents and problems,
        as well as some speculations and difficulties with the real cost of flying.

        The most successful American project of recent times is the events in the territory of the former Ukraine.
      2. Cynic
        Cynic 19 May 2016 17: 23
        +2
        Of course, everyone sees only what he wants to see, but why lower the Swiss? Do you think they really have a watch how these carriers work out?
        So then your watch is not Swiss ...
      3. Operator
        Operator 19 May 2016 17: 42
        0
        As for the Penguins, you from Israel know better than McCain from America (a crushing statement to the US Congress, cho) laughing
  • fzr1000
    fzr1000 19 May 2016 09: 30
    +3
    I found here a little humor about the Lunar program.
    1. opus
      opus 19 May 2016 12: 38
      +1
      Quote: fzr1000
      I found here a little humor about the Lunar program.

      And you think so they will humor:
      -pro Yu.A. Gagarina (well, that story with a Guinness record and a separate descent by parachute)
      -with Hippopotamus-2 (mmmm 64 or 6 standard products have gone / seem to have reached 3, the rest with throwing only the first one, but what do we say?)
      Well and so on
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 19 May 2016 18: 12
        +1
        Yes, let humor, I'm talking about humor, not about mockery.
  • Alexander_
    Alexander_ 19 May 2016 10: 41
    +1
    They showed on TV how they were pushing our urgent development of shale gas, like "guard, we are hopelessly behind progress." And sometimes you don't need to hurry .. Now you urgently need to catch up with the same vertical landing reusable?
    1. Awaz
      Awaz 19 May 2016 11: 01
      +2
      in the USSR, they worked on this topic a long time ago. Even in Soviet times they recognized that it was not economically profitable. And then the USSR did not spare money for space, and the designers of space technology in the USSR were then in approximately the same privileged position as Musk.
      The USA themselves do not invent anything, they simply steal other people's ideas. That the landing module of the first stage that unlimited dibs for one craftsman, as it was in the USSR and right now in the US they are pushing.
      The option of achieving something is possible if they really promote some kind of technology and not cut the American budget. Of course we do not know all the subtleties, but so far it looks like a cut.
    2. Rus2012
      19 May 2016 11: 09
      +4
      Quote: Alexander_
      urgently here to catch the same vertical landing reusable?

      ... inna? :))))))))))))
      Already been, 2006year!
      The reusable reusable accelerator "Baikal". Those. there is an order - there is an offer! Any whim, for your money ... :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
      http://www.buran.ru/htm/strbaik.htm

      Only at the time they refused, recognizing that the weight of the rescue system is better to use properly - fuel and to disperse the payload!
      We read for general development - http://www.pvsm.ru/robototehnika/43402/print/
      1. Forever so
        Forever so 19 May 2016 22: 33
        +3
        )))))))) so here you are, a flying member))) repeat
  • stone
    stone 19 May 2016 11: 14
    +2
    I suggest that the author continue the series and explain to the people that all the other achievements of the Americans drank and divorce. Who can be jammed there Boeing, Apple, Intel, GM. You can even go to federal channels, the rating is provided.
    1. fzr1000
      fzr1000 19 May 2016 18: 14
      0
      About Apple, and without the author, they wrote that there was a second Steve was the head. And Jobs is a talented marketer, which is also not enough.
      I mean, Mask has talent, and what and how is going on there is not given to us to know.